[speaker001:] okay we're energized um painting interesting uh the guy called me when she called me the computer called me I thought that they were reading my mind I'm in the middle of um going out for bids to have my house painted
[speaker002:] okay oh
[speaker001:] uh painting is not hard to do uh as long as it's not in not to the point of where it's uh needs to be scraped and bleeding and peeling
[speaker002:] no right
[speaker001:] and our house is not but it's starting to bleed through and burn through because the paint's real cheap and it's just a hassle to go do it so I'm looking for the easy way out and uh
[speaker002:] yeah I know did is it easy to find painters uh painters to do this for you
[speaker001:] it's easier to find painters but you have to be you have to be aware of what of how messy they can get and are they gonna put on a good a good two coats and are they gonna caulk exterior
[speaker002:] right are you talking about outside or inside exterior yeah
[speaker001:] yeah uh interior's not so bad it's because it's more fun it's more convenient but you get outside where you have high peaks and those kind of things it can be a real issue
[speaker002:] well yeah well when we've painted um right now our house doesn't have to have the same kind of exterior painting there it's more trim because it has some of the old asbestos shingles
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] on the back and there's some sort of stone or something in the front so there isn't as much wood that has to be painted um but it it the problem is that it hits the sun hits it so preparing it is a real problem you've got to prepare it well or else it'll flake
[speaker001:] um-hum um-hum here the
[speaker002:] um
[speaker001:] some of the home builders are they they don't put brick on the side of your houses to save money so they put up a lot uh little quarter inch Masonite basically and they're painted kind of like a spun of some sort and so it's real cheap and uh uh I've had thirteen hundred dollar bid and I've as low as five hundred and forty dollars so it's just a matter of it's
[speaker002:] wow that's quite a range
[speaker001:] oh yeah one guy brags about his his piece of equipment he's using and the drop cloths and all that kind crap and I'm not so much worried about that as what
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] I don't want it all over the brick and windows and and the
[speaker002:] yeah which might be a bigger problem than it would be uh yeah absolutely
[speaker001:] oh sure so y'all you haven't had any any jobs painted in your house or recently then
[speaker002:] no we have uh done a little painting ourselves um we painted a bedroom uh well within the last couple of months um and we have we have some more that need to be done but the
[speaker001:] just fun um-hum
[speaker002:] the problem that we we've owned this house almost five years now and um when we bought it the um it had been vacant for a while because the family had retired to Arizona but the daughter was a real estate agent and she was selling it and it'd been lived in briefly by her before she bought her town house so she told us that the house had been uh professionally painted recently and it looked pretty good you know the interior walls all basically white but they obviously had been done without to much uh wear afterward the only problem was when we started having the movers move the uh furniture in we identified the various rooms by pieces of masking tape on the wood uh the door frames when we took the masking tape off half the painted came with it
[speaker001:] um-hum uh that's not very
[speaker002:] big long strips so what had happened is that professional painters had not prepared the surface properly and some of that still has to be redone
[speaker001:] oh man just painted over varnished wood oh my
[speaker002:] yeah well no actually it had been uh it would had been a repaint job
[speaker001:] hm
[speaker002:] but they had not um either they had painted with the wrong kind of paint over top or they hadn't really roughed it up or whatever they would because it was woodwork so it looked as if it had been painted
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] correctly with you know uh an enamel or something but um it had not either that or it had had not been prepared underneath and it was greasy or something
[speaker001:] sure
[speaker002:] it comes off in strips I mean not even little bit so we still have some of that trim work to do because we put it off all this time we know what a job it's gonna be because you almost have to strip the whole thing in order do it again
[speaker001:] oh no hm I wish you good luck
[speaker002:] okay thank you bye
[speaker001:] thank you very much bye-bye

[speaker001:] Well, have you ever served on a jury?
[speaker002:] No, I've not. I've been called, but I had to beg off from the duty. And you?
[speaker001:] Well, I was called and then I was not chosen.
[speaker002:] Um. Well, I was, I was, uh, originally chosen primarily, I think, because I was a young fellow and they tend to view the younger fellows as more likely to hand down a guilty verdict. I don't know why. Something I picked up in a psychology class some time ago.
[speaker001:] Oh, really?
[speaker002:] Yeah, it's that the younger they are, they tend to be more conservative for some statistical oddball reason, and [inhaling] they kind of liked me. I looked conser-, [breathing] and all that stuff and they, I don't know what they saw in me, but they saw it. But, uh, back to the issue, is, uh, I don't know, at times I feel that a unanimous decision is warranted, especially in cases in which there's no smoking gun. But, there, too, there are also cases in which I feel a majority rule might be acceptable, particularly, I think in civil cases. In criminal cases, I'd like to see the unani-, unanimity remain, but in civil cases, I think a majority rule by, by jury would be sufficient.
[speaker001:] Well, uh, could you give me an example of a case where you think that?
[speaker002:] Well, in a criminal case, say one in which, you know, there is, like, say assault or some such. I think there ought to be a unanimous, uh, vote because by law and by constitution there must be proven beyond a shadow of a reasonable doubt that the person in question did this. And in civil law there, you know, is such a thing as like, let's say, uh, [breathing] misappropriations or misuse of financial instruments or something like that. A majority rule, I think, would be more in line as there is no real smoking gun in the civil cases. I don't know if I'm making any sense or not.
[speaker001:] Well, I mean, I think, are you just trying to say that criminal cases are more, uh, tangible or,
[speaker002:] Yeah, often there's more incriminating evidence. Like, for instance, say, uh, and also, too, I think I'm, I'm tempering this and the fact that the consequences are much more, uh, serious in a criminal case.
[speaker001:] Well, do you think that, that in a civil case, if there was majority rule, that it would be easy for someone to be set up?
[speaker002:] Um, well, I really can't say for certain, truth be known. Uh, as it stands, there's, there's many ways and means by which a person can be set up, both, uh, in a civil, uh, civil and criminal case. I mean, the, uh, documentary, the THIN BLUE LINE pretty much demonstrated that. You know, I don't know for, if you're familiar with that or not.
[speaker001:] No, I'm not.
[speaker002:] A, uh, fellow [breathing] when he was much younger, uh, was tried and convicted and sentenced to death. Fortunately, in his case, the death penalty was revoked and, uh, so he served out his, his sentence until it was discovered by a fellow who was making a documentary called the THIN BLUE LINE that this guy had basically gotten railroaded through the judicial system. The case was reopened and he was exonerated.
[speaker001:] Well, I mean, I think that there are many cases in our judicial system where justice is not served.
[speaker002:] Yeah, many laws, but little justice.
[speaker001:] Say, but, uh, and I also think, just like you were talking about before, why you were chosen to be on a jury that, uh, the, just, the process of picking jurors is not always objective.
[speaker002:] Oh, certainly not, certainly not. And [breathing], you know, they like to think that they're getting someone who's objective in all this, but they're really looking for someone who will pretty much fulfill the lawyers' desires. You know, the, because you get up and, and [breathing] they ask you a few questions, both sides do, and [breathing] then you, you're either challenged which is, you know, each attorney can use that as much as they like or, I think it's a limit now, they probably have a limit now, but, they pretty much go through that, and then you have to give a reason to the court why you can't serve. For me, it was financial hardship, so. But, onto the thing, uh, I was never aware that juries had any say on recommending sentencing. It was always my impression that the Justice himself, or herself, had the final say.

[speaker001:] Night,
[speaker002:] Fine, thank you.
[speaker001:] I understand we're supposed to talk about spaceflight.
[speaker002:] Yes.
[speaker001:] I hope you know more about it than I do.
[speaker002:] Oh, well [LAUGHTER], I just got through renting, reading, uh, SPACE by, uh, James Michener.
[speaker001:] Oh, is that right?
[speaker002:] And so that, uh, helped out a little bit I think.
[speaker001:] I haven't read his book. I was so upset with TEXAS that I haven't gotten into any more of his books because I thought it was just horrible.
[speaker002:] Well, he tends to go into a lot of detail sometimes.
[speaker001:] Well, and I don't think he was truthful in a lot of what he did in TEXAS so I wasn't sure how credible he was.
[speaker002:] Oh, is that right?
[speaker001:] But anyway, what do you think we've gained from the spaceflights?
[speaker002:] Well [breathing], uh, [breathing] [NOISE] I'm not sure to be honest with you, so, uh, this going to the moon seemed to be a exciting adventure and, uh,
[speaker001:] Ego trip.
[speaker002:] And, yeah, it was nice to go there, but I don't know that it really benefitted mankind that much.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] I happen to live not too far away from, uh, well, I've actually worked for the company that, uh, has been blamed for the Challenger disaster. Uh
[speaker001:] Oh, is that right?
[speaker002:] Morton Thiakol.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And, uh, you know, that's been kind of a, a real negative feeling here is
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] sure it was, you know, very unfortunate thing that occurred there and it's,
[speaker001:] Where do you live?
[speaker002:] Uh, we live in, uh, Utah.
[speaker001:] You live in U-, am I talking to Utah right now?
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Oh, oh, great.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Because
[speaker002:] Uh,
[speaker001:] I'm in Dallas.
[speaker002:] Oh.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] I have a sister that lives in Dallas, that's how we got hooked up to the program was her
[speaker001:] I see.
[speaker002:] her husband works for Penney's there.
[speaker001:] I see.
[speaker002:] So.
[speaker001:] Carolyn Rash?
[speaker002:] Pardon me?
[speaker001:] Is her name Rash, Carolyn Rash?
[speaker002:] No, her name is, uh, my last name is Skidmore.
[speaker001:] I see.
[speaker002:] And her, her husband's name is, his last name is Weight.
[speaker001:] I see.
[speaker002:] And, uh,
[speaker001:] Well, you probably know a lot about it. I wasn't sure that they were blaming that sp-, space disaster on one company.
[speaker002:] [Breathing].
[speaker001:] I hadn't heard that.
[speaker002:] Well, they were. There was, uh, apparently the specifications for the joints, uh, they were not to perform in, uh, cold weather and, uh, apparently there was definitely a, a joint that did not [NOISE] seal, and, uh, if you've ever seen the size of those, uh, motors
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] that put them into space, I mean, they're as long as a football field practically and
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] about twelve foot in diameter and, and there is a lot of pressure, lot of thrust to get that much weight up in the air.
[speaker001:] Oh, yeah.
[speaker002:] So it's, this book was interesting, though. I, uh, talked about how a lot of the problems they have to come, overcome to, uh, it's a very complex, uh, situation to go into space.
[speaker001:] Oh, yeah, I would think so, too [NOISE].
[speaker002:] They would, the thing that he went into quite a bit of detail about how, how much of a problem it is to re-enter the Earth's atmosphere.
[speaker001:] You never think about that do you?
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] I would think it would be harder to get up than it would be
[speaker002:] Yeah [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] getting back down.
[speaker002:] But they have to come in at a, just the right angle. If you come in at the wrong angle, what happens is they bounce off and go back into space
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] and if they come into it at a different angle there is so much friction that it burns them up.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] So,
[speaker001:] Well, I saw one of, some of those early space capsules at Smithsonian. I'm sure you've
[speaker002:] Oh.
[speaker001:] seen more of them than I have, but
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] you could see the scorch on them, you know, they had though piles
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] but you could see where they would come off in the, how hot it got because it was still the scorch on them which was quite interesting.
[speaker002:] Yeah, I've, I've,
[speaker001:] Well, I, excuse me, go ahead.
[speaker002:] I would say I've never, I've never seen an actual capsule.
[speaker001:] Oh, yeah.
[speaker002:] I've seen more, more of the motors that, that they
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] produced out there.
[speaker001:] Well, these were the ones that John Glenn went up in
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] you know, and the old, old ones.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] The very first ones, the little bell type things.
[speaker002:] People have commented how, uh, they were surprised at how small they were.
[speaker001:] Yeah, they really were, they
[speaker002:] Looked pretty
[speaker001:] just, uh,
[speaker002:] confining, huh.
[speaker001:] Oh, yeah, and, uh, the whole thing was small and, yeah, you, I mean, you actually put it on [LAUGHTER], you know.
[speaker002:] Is that right?
[speaker001:] You put it around you pretty much, it was so small.
[speaker002:] Huh.
[speaker001:] Well, I thought there was some medical benefits that we have learned from space, but did he go into that in the book?
[speaker002:] Not really. Uh, [throat clearing],
[speaker001:] I guess that's just to sell us on it.
[speaker002:] One thing's, I know one thing they've, they've mentioned that I didn't get from the book, by the way, but, it talked about, uh, they're able to manufacture, uh, different kinds of crystals
[speaker001:] Oh, yeah.
[speaker002:] and ball bearings and things like that in a zero gravity state that they turned out being almost, uh, nearly perfect as far as a ball bearing goes. It's perfectly round.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] But I'm not sure you have to go to outer space to achieve that zero gravity.
[speaker001:] Well, that's true and,
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] That's right [LAUGHTER]. Well, do you think we should continue to support it at the level, well, I thought probably one of the things they were doing that they didn't tell us was spying. Because
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] I think those satellites, you know, or not satellites, but the spaceflights could really spy and with, uh
[speaker002:] Yes.
[speaker001:] with Russia's demise, I didn't know if we should continue to support it at the current level.
[speaker002:] Uh, I think they have cut it back, to be honest with you.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] From, from the glory days when they did the Apollo shots to the moon.
[speaker001:] Uh.
[speaker002:] Uh, I appreciate having the satellites. You know, that's certainly made it nice for other purpose. I don't know if you have a satellite dish or not. We don't
[speaker001:] No, I don't. I don't
[speaker002:] but I
[speaker001:] either.
[speaker002:] I know that's certainly helped a lot
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] in that regard. Uh,

[speaker001:] Now then I think that
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] are you there?
[speaker002:] Yeah, I'm here.
[speaker001:] All right. Do you have any one that has been in a nursing home?
[speaker002:] Uh, well, only my, um, my grandmother, but for a very short time. Um, she, uh, she was just more or less in a, in a nursing home for, uh, recovery from a broken hip
[speaker001:] Oh.
[speaker002:] because she could receive more medical attention.
[speaker001:] Yes.
[speaker002:] But, um, that, physical therapy was there and whatever, but I think, in visiting her there, um, it was very obvious to see that a lot of the people in the nursing home that she was in, uh, weren't there mentally. Uh, she was probably the only person in the, um, whole nursing home [LAUGHTER] that, uh, still had all of her mental facilities about her. So that was, uh, that was very disheartening.
[speaker001:] Well, what do you think can be done about that? I mean, what can we do,
[speaker002:] Oh, yeah, it's really hard, I guess. I, I come from a family of, um, of, uh, take care of your elders, I guess. Uh, my, my dad's mother is an invalid, and she lives with my aunt and uncle, and they care for her, you know, all around the clock. Though she's not, uh, she doesn't have to receive constant medical attention, she, because of arthritis, she's just unable to get out of bed. So, I guess, you know, there's that family commitment. Um, I know that my parents, my mother is trying to let my grandmother stay in her house as long as she can. Um,
[speaker001:] Well, I can remembe-, of course I'm
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] old enough to remember when [inhaling] the family or the church took care of all of this.
[speaker002:] Right, yeah.
[speaker001:] We did not have to call on, on someone else, and I feel, no, you tell me how you feel about,
[speaker002:] Yeah, well probably, I think, as long as the person's able to, um, to understand what's going on around them and I think, you know, my grandmother right now is still able to walk around, and she's still able to, uh, to do some things for herself, though she gets Meals On Wheels
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] which I think is a great thing, because, um, it saves people from having to prepare food for her, because you worry a little bit about her leaving a stove on, or whatever, although she does most things very well, it still makes a little bit easier for her.
[speaker001:] Certainly d-,
[speaker002:] Uh.
[speaker001:] I worked with an agency in West Texas that they, it's where they really started this concept of Meals On Wheels
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and I think it's such a valuable thing for our elderly.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] If they didn't have to, you know, go into a kitchen
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] my mother expired just, just a little over a year ago, and we had finally, she didn't want to live with either my sister or me
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] but we, we got, found a retirement center for her, and it was beautiful and they had all these, they didn't even have nursing care there. So until, as long as mother was, you know
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] mobile and
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] got her food, and she was with people with whom she enjoyed.
[speaker002:] Yeah, that, I think, you know, it's really funny, I have two grandmothers still alive, and my one grandmother says that she wants to stay in her house for as long as possible. She's like openly told people. She's always been very good about knowing, yes, she's eighty-nine, and she said that she would really like to stay in her house as long as possible, because it's her home.
[speaker001:] Sure.
[speaker002:] But when the time comes, um, she, and she can't do things and she has to be cared for, whatever, she would prefer, and she's actually said this, to move into some type of community where she has her own apartment, uh, probably with like a living space and a bedroom
[speaker001:] Yes, sir.
[speaker002:] with maybe a kitchenette, so that if she, you know, if she wants to fix herself something light, she can do that, but if she wants to go to a meal, she can go down the hallway, uh, to a room where there's a cafeteria
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] and there's other people there, and she can mix with them and talk with them and enjoy their company.
[speaker001:] Being a widow
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] I find that eating alone is one of the hardest things
[speaker002:] Yes.
[speaker001:] I have to do.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] I have just recently retired, and I am finding it extremely hard to adjust to.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] So, uh, mother had the little kitchenette
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and she could do all these fine things that she just, ha-, had a microwave, had to pop
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] her popcorn. Now this is wonderful.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] But when it came time for a full meal, then mother was able to go with people
[speaker002:] Right,
[speaker001:] and, and enjoy.
[speaker002:] Yeah, I think, I think that probably, until, until they're really invalids, uh, the elderly are invalids, I think that they should be able to interact with other people
[speaker001:] Oh, I think so.
[speaker002:] in an environment that they choose, if they can, if the family can afford it.
[speaker001:] Well.
[speaker002:] I mean, um, see, I know that my grandmother would like to stay in her house, and my parents actually said, you know, that they may have to take their end, sometime, so, because, you know, my grandma, she says who she wants to live with, she's pretty, you know, she lets people know,

[speaker001:] hello hello this is Jim in Dallas uh how you doing
[speaker002:] fine I'm Callie in Garland
[speaker001:] oh you're right here okay yeah I'm I'm actually working tonight I just uh called and came in
[speaker002:] yes oh are you
[speaker001:] so do you work at TI
[speaker002:] yeah you
[speaker001:] yeah I just got a little booklet uh this not what we're supposed to talk about just got a little booklet in the mail with the gifts and I thought oh I better make some calls
[speaker002:] I know I know aren't they
[speaker001:] yeah well I haven't get a chance I haven't got a chance to look at them yet
[speaker002:] I love it in the it was a lot nicer than I expected
[speaker001:] my daughter uh got a few calls at home she talked to some student in I guess they give them to computer students too and uh Virginia or something like that she's talked to two students
[speaker002:] I've talked to I don't think they were students one I think worked at a university university um and the furthest away I've talked to someone has been New York
[speaker001:] yeah oh yeah great uh we're supposed to talk about the elderly now I guess uh
[speaker002:] so yes we are
[speaker001:] do you have anybody that you uh have are close to that decision on or anything or I've thought about it for myself and all and my wife my wife's mother is uh in a retirement home she's not in a nursing home uh
[speaker002:] oh well that's not did you push the button
[speaker001:] yeah did I did we push
[speaker002:] did you
[speaker001:] let me I'll hit it again just in case
[speaker002:] okay just in case
[speaker001:] I did it right as she said yeah but uh she's she's down in San Antonio it's it's a uh
[speaker002:] now what's oh
[speaker001:] it's a brand new one it's a Catholic uh retirement home for nuns it's at uh Trinity no let me see Trinity I keep calling it Trinity it's not Trinity I'll think of
[speaker002:] oh
[speaker001:] Incarnate Word and they have a retirement home for the nuns and they take some lay people
[speaker002:] well isn't that neat isn't that neat
[speaker001:] yeah and that one's really super now I I know what they're talking about on regular retirement yeah there's not too many they do have a wing where the people who are really sick you know have nurses
[speaker002:] uh-huh oh that's good
[speaker001:] and then they have other wings that we visited uh that are very nice I mean it's just super
[speaker002:] that's neat just supervised more or less than anything and security I guess for them
[speaker001:] oh yeah they they they have uh like uh a guard with locks we've been there once at night at Christmas she just went in last year
[speaker002:] oh
[speaker001:] she drives and everything she she's perfectly healthy uh
[speaker002:] right what made you all decide to put her or had what made her decide to go
[speaker001:] well her husband died they were in the military together and she just did not want to take care of the house
[speaker002:] right by herself
[speaker001:] and she visited the place and then fell in love with it and decided to just shun all responsibilities of any kind so to speak and so
[speaker002:] ah  well that's good
[speaker001:] she's happy as as heck uh and they serve meals of course
[speaker002:] that's great
[speaker001:] and they have clubs and a swimming pool so that's nice now I I know the ones where you're really ill we visited a long time ago when she had a grandmother that was in one
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] and they were all more or less hospitalized type you know really really sick it's a tough question
[speaker002:] right shut-ins and yeah it really is I worked at one as a teenager I volunteered at at
[speaker001:] oh you got experience more experience than I do then on it
[speaker002:] well it was really it was really sad heartbreaking I guess
[speaker001:] yeah yeah
[speaker002:] and uh I just oh I just felt for those people that especially the ones that never got visited
[speaker001:] oh that would be awful I never thought about that you know
[speaker002:] that just bothered me that just bothered me so much especially you know at my age I was probably about fourteen
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] and that really made a bad impression on me so I've always thought not not really bad of them I mean because they are most of them I I believe are probably pretty good for the people but I don't know it's just a that would be a tough tough decision
[speaker001:] yeah I think that uh hopefully we as a country are learning a little more about it and they're getting nicer
[speaker002:] right
[speaker001:] I've seen on TV where they take animals and young children in fact my daughter is one my wife took my daughters one year when they were getting some points for school took them to an elderly home and boy that really pumps them up that uh
[speaker002:] helps yeah
[speaker001:] is very nice to see young people I think that's one of the sad things is when you're in an older home
[speaker002:] um-hum um-hum
[speaker001:] if you just have people your own age you never get a chance to see kids or anything or animals or anything you know you can't take care of them
[speaker002:] right right
[speaker001:] obvious obvious you can't take care of children or animals in a nursing home but it's nice to have them visit and everything
[speaker002:] right yeah and get that youth back
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] you know sometimes that even helps them you know just being around young people the because some of them are so um you know just stationary I mean they'll get in a wheelchair or they'll just sit in a chair and and till you come along and really try and pump them up they're just
[speaker001:] right
[speaker002:] stationary and I feel like gosh that's all they do all day long so um so I do love to see young kids go and and men take the pets and everything I think that's a real real neat idea
[speaker001:] yeah I think you do get more by stimulation stimulation my in fact my mother-in-law just visited she's just about seventy five again perfectly fine
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] but one and and she visit us here in in Dallas when she went back every time she goes back to uh San Antonio my wife has two sisters there too she said she's much better she's much more alive and and uh active when she's been on a visit with somebody else you know and
[speaker002:] that's yeah
[speaker001:] and our routine has come obviously hectic with teenagers and everything and she's much and so the stimulation part is really important I think like any animal anything you just lay around uh that's the fastest way to die I think you know
[speaker002:] right right stagnant yeah that's exactly right I think they're really neat um of course I've seen those reports on TV the horrible ones and that scares me
[speaker001:] oh yeah I'm afraid I'm a TV flipper anything bad I like I like to flip I flip it off but it is sad it's sad yeah
[speaker002:] it really is it it's sad to think that we would do that to people and you know I've seen them on TV with uh bed sores and
[speaker001:] oh yeah
[speaker002:] uh they just stay in the same clothes or the same sheets and not do laundry and I just think how can you do that these these people have given so much of their lives you know to to America you know or whatever and here is here is how we treat them we just put them in a home and leave them
[speaker001:] yeah right when I was uh younger we I lived in the east I'm from the east really and it seemed like there several people that I knew that had their uh parents I guess they would be but well in their seventy living with them
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] and one of them was even a woman who was fairly old and I guess she she had her own separate room and I think whether it's more a custom up there or maybe because I was younger and it's just not a custom anymore
[speaker002:] right
[speaker001:] to have uh you know the grandparents live with you anymore I guess that uh well we are getting away from that which is not right
[speaker002:] I think it's right I think it's neat I think uh you learn a lot from them you
[speaker001:] oh yeah
[speaker002:] from all their experiences and and that's one of my favorite things to do sit around and listen to their stories
[speaker001:] oh right right
[speaker002:] I think that's neat because they really have a lot of good ideas insights that my father my husband's father is really old he he had him late in life and he's he'll be eighty this year
[speaker001:] yeah oh
[speaker002:] and I just uh he lives with different you know people in the family he'll switch from time to time I just
[speaker001:] well that's nice in a lot of ways
[speaker002:] yeah I just couldn't imagine locking not locking him up but putting him in a home and just
[speaker001:] but that you were implying you said that by mistake yeah right
[speaker002:] lock him up
[speaker001:] that's what I think about it for me I think well my kids better not do that to me I don't want that you know so I I think of it well how would I want to be treated rather than
[speaker002:] oh I know I know right right right exactly
[speaker001:] you know it's easy to say well yeah let's let's put these old folks in a home but when I think I don't want to do that you know I don't want to be have my little home I always threaten my daughters I say well
[speaker002:] um-hum that's right
[speaker001:] I'm going to build a little house behind yours and then and I'll take care of your lawn he says but I'm not going to one of those places right yeah
[speaker002:] oh you're not going to put me away that's what my mother she always you're going to lock me up one day aren't you I can tell I can tell you're going to lock me up
[speaker001:] that's what we that's the way we call it which is really wrong but my wife's mother and the one she's in San Antonio it's you know it's everything but the opposite of what you've seen I mean it's it's a little hotel hotel you might say
[speaker002:] I know it right that's great
[speaker001:] again a swimming pool and grounds and she has enough room she has two bedrooms and a and a separate living area
[speaker002:] gosh
[speaker001:] they don't have kitchens or anything but they have little it's like uh
[speaker002:] right
[speaker001:] on each floor they have a little kitchen area where you can go down and have a make a meal you know
[speaker002:] yes prepare your well that's great can now can she leave um on a day by herself
[speaker001:] oh yeah it's it's it's nothing like that it's like living in the hotel I mean she's totally on her own
[speaker002:] oh man that's neat
[speaker001:] uh and she still drives which we do does scare us some because she has dented a few things you know
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] and we keep thinking about that you know because she they get less alert and they don't care and I've seen some of these elderly people on TV you know the ones from Florida that just run into people and they don't even understand what happened you know
[speaker002:] right right I know bless their hearts you hate to hurt them by doing that that's like their one last thing that they can still do and you take away that driving ability and that would really be hard we've
[speaker001:] I know I I know go ahead I'm sorry
[speaker002:] uh well we've thought about doing that for for my husband's father because he's
[speaker001:] oh he still drives
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] that's great well it's wonderful in one one respect but I don't know if you can afford the insurance yeah
[speaker002:] well luckily he drives a big old tank
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] so he I mean I don't think he he could get hurt I just hope to God he doesn't ever hurt anyone but he he hasn't had any accidents luckily
[speaker001:] right that's good I mean people are all different
[speaker002:] yeah yeah
[speaker001:] I I wonder if they should give them a test or at least maybe uh not take their license maybe give them a refresher driving course and just to just to see how well they are every five years
[speaker002:] right I saw that on Twenty Twenty that
[speaker001:] are they doing it
[speaker002:] they um you know they're testing that they're you know thinking of doing that and I think that'd be a great idea because you I think they do come become less aware and they just I don't know they and they don't hear as well for one thing and that doesn't help
[speaker001:] yeah well everybody needs retraining it doesn't hurt uh
[speaker002:] no that's
[speaker001:] you know the best football players and all the opera singers still have coaches and I don't know why you couldn't after sixty five every five years have a refresher course and then take another driving it would it would sure the insurance companies would would probably help pay for some of that you know
[speaker002:] right right at least that way the burden's not on the family of taking their license or their car away
[speaker001:] right there you go there's a good point very good point
[speaker002:] it's on the state
[speaker001:] very good point but I think they need should do that and then the families will have said

[speaker001:] of the exercise program you have
[speaker002:] well um I have a a a former exercise program I'm a graduate student and this semester I'll tell you what I it's been almost impossible for me to get you know back to regular exercise
[speaker001:] right
[speaker002:] um last summer I was a a swim instructor all all summer and and lifeguard so it was really easy for me to get quite a bit of exercise swimming and um and since I worked at a recreation center I could uh you know use those facilities quite often but um
[speaker001:] well swimming is uh one of the best exercises you can do
[speaker002:] oh yeah oh yeah
[speaker001:] I mean as far as for uh cardiovascular and
[speaker002:] uh-huh and there's and there's no jarring movements
[speaker001:] and it's least least least hard on your body I
[speaker002:] pardon
[speaker001:] it's the least hard on your body as far as uh impact and
[speaker002:] exactly yeah um fluid yeah fluid resistance
[speaker001:] right right
[speaker002:] um-hum how about you
[speaker001:] well I do uh a little aerobics oh three or four times a week but it's not enough to boy if I go the summer time I try to job jog a couple of miles and uh
[speaker002:] oh yeah
[speaker001:] I end you know even doing that three or four times a week when summer hits that's a hard thing to go out and
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] and go jogging for uh
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] half hour or so but so I'm not quite getting the level that I need to
[speaker002:] um-hum yeah do you do you kind of think it's a chore or do you enjoy it
[speaker001:] I like it
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] I like it uh part of my problem is I have small children so oh to do a whole lot it just requires a lot of oh coordination as far as scheduling and
[speaker002:] um-hum sure yeah
[speaker001:] that type of uh deal you know uh when you're in college boy you get a hundred things going on course you're got a little different direction going but uh
[speaker002:] uh-huh yeah uh I um I used to uh I I used to weigh uh two hundred fifteen pounds and now I only weigh about one about one seventy five um so I drastically had to change the way I ate uh when I when I first moved to college and uh I I had started weight lifting quite regularly and so I got my weight down and it's kind of easy for me to to forget about it now because uh you know when I'm not fat like I used to be uh you know I just don't worry about it you know
[speaker001:] right you don't notice as much yeah
[speaker002:] um-hum although lately I have noticed you know even if I gain like two pounds I start I start feeling it and
[speaker001:] you feel it don't you it's amazing how uh
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] how much uh it changes and I weigh probably about the same I've weighed for oh I don't know how many years but uh it's changed places and things don't fit just quite exactly
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] fit the same
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] but uh so do you do a uh in Texas uh there's a probably quite a few few facilities
[speaker002:] yeah there are um I'm living in a dorm right now and so right downstairs there's a facility and I really feel kind of guilty for not working out more than I do because there's a facility right downstairs where all you know all we have to do is is uh run down there and
[speaker001:] do you enjoy it or is it uh
[speaker002:] I really do if I have the time to
[speaker001:] if you can have find the time it's just the
[speaker002:] um-hum yeah I really do because I like to get you know get off alone and just do that for a while but that's hard you know
[speaker001:] yeah it is hard it is hard it's uh like anything else whether or not you wanna sacrifice another half hour my problem is I don't wanna wake up another half hour earlier
[speaker002:] um-hum um-hum exactly
[speaker001:] and do more don't get enough sleep as it is right
[speaker002:] um-hum uh-huh yeah yeah
[speaker001:] and uh kind of have if you're having the pressures of school and uh everything else it's kind of course it's really you know as soon as you do it it's really a release
[speaker002:] oh yeah
[speaker001:] you feel invigorated and you feel
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] oh you feel so in a lot better shape just like eating right foods
[speaker002:] yeah ready to go another twelve hours yeah
[speaker001:] if I eat too very much sugar boy it just does something
[speaker002:] yeah um-hum do you have to watch what you eat pretty regularly um-hum
[speaker001:] I do I have to be real careful
[speaker002:] um-hum I stopped eating meat about oh uh must have been eight months ago uh-huh completely I mean any kind of meat or
[speaker001:] did you
[speaker002:] and I and I really feel a lot better now you that really does
[speaker001:] makes a lot of difference well there's a lot of fat in meat
[speaker002:] um-hum yeah that's it I mean that's about where almost all of the fat comes from and and so I found that really helps
[speaker001:] right and unless you really like uh fish fish is pretty good for you but uh
[speaker002:] yeah I eat that I think I've eaten fish like twice since I used to eat a lot of fish too but I just tried to cut it all out for a while and see what happened
[speaker001:] kind of see what happens I I've tried to do that with sugar and it
[speaker002:] yeah and I like it and I I I don't know if I'm that brave yet
[speaker001:] it's almost impossible everything has sugar in it I mean if you go your ketchup has sugar in it
[speaker002:] uh-huh uh-huh
[speaker001:] course and I like sugar too that's
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] that's uh a problem but anyway well it's uh nice talking to you think we've uh covered all the subject
[speaker002:] okay yeah it sounds good
[speaker001:] okay
[speaker002:] well good luck to you there in Idaho
[speaker001:] well you too good luck uh enjoy college while you can let me tell you it's uh
[speaker002:] well I'm in graduate school now I I I kind of feel like I wish I could've gone back to undergraduate now yeah
[speaker001:] it's a little different uh challenge isn't it
[speaker002:] yeah it is well it's good talking pardon I'm studying speech pathology I
[speaker001:] where are you going studying right

[speaker001:] Okay, well what do you do on your yard?
[speaker002:] Well, uh, typical lawn stuff. Saint Augustine, uh
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] with a little Bermuda mixed in in some of the sunny areas
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] uh, and really all I do to it is, uh, in fact, I didn't even fertilize it this year, I just mowed it, and I, I mow it, uh, you know, with a mulch mower so the, the particles fall down
[speaker001:] Comes back in the yard
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] so you don't have any one do your yard. You do it yourself?
[speaker002:] I do it myself.
[speaker001:] Yeah, we do too.
[speaker002:] Have a lot of people trying to do it for me [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Isn't that the truth. A flyer's on every door every day.
[speaker002:] Hey, I need the exercise, so what the heck.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] That's right. Well, we, um, we, my husband does the same thing, he does the yard, and he wants me to learn how to work the lawn mower, but I keep putting off learning.
[speaker002:] Hey, you've got the right idea.
[speaker001:] That's right. But I had recently gone out and planted mums. We had decided to paint the front of the house about three weeks ago, and so while my husband was painting I went out and bought about fifty dollars worth of mums over at Calloway's
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and put out yellow and bronze and they're just gorgeous, and so then last week my mom comes in town, and she says Well, those are going to die just the first frost.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] She said, You should have done pansies. And I went, Well, now you tell me.
[speaker002:] Yeah [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] So the first night, that around Halloween and we went out and covered them with a sheet, and they did okay that first night. But the second night we were at the movies and didn't do it, so I guess I've lost them. I haven't gone out to check yet.
[speaker002:] Yeah, I don't blame you. I wouldn't want to look at them.
[speaker001:] No, listen, but, um, the worst problem we've had here with this grass was about the third year we were here. I guess it was about four years ago. And we did not know in August to put down the, uh, whatever it is for grub worms.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] And the next spring, I guess in that March, every time we would go out and just try to walk on the grass or reach down to pull a weed, we'd have big whole patches come up. Have you ever seen it
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] what grub worms do?
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] And we pulled up almost half of our yard just by raking it, it would just come off in the rake, down to the dirt. So we had to go out and resod the whole thing with squares and wet it and put it down and rope it off and everything. It took a lot of money and a lot of time, so the most careful thing we do on our yard every August is put down that Diazinon.
[speaker002:] Yeah, you, you think that's what it was, huh.
[speaker001:] Oh, yeah, we found them
[speaker002:] Okay.
[speaker001:] yeah we found them. We dug under there about an inch and you could see them. They're real fat little white things, and
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] they said they turn into black bugs in the spring
[speaker002:] Yeah, those kind of brown, uh, Ju-,
[speaker001:] yeah, but in, but in the,
[speaker002:] What we call June bugs
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] and some people call them May beetles.
[speaker001:] Yeah, June bugs is what I'd heard them called,
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] so any how, occasionally I find them in the flower beds. They said that every yard has some
[speaker002:] Uh, yeah.
[speaker001:] but it was a preponderance of them that caused our problem. So that's the number one thing we do, whether we fertilize or anything else, just because we got burned so badly before.
[speaker002:] Yeah, well, I had some of that problem, but mine was freeze.
[speaker001:] Oh, yeah that too, two years ago, or last Christmas
[speaker002:] Yeah, yeah.
[speaker001:] is that what you're talking about?
[speaker002:] Yeah, I'm still
[speaker001:] Yeah, uh-huh.
[speaker002:] I'm still replacing that in the back, especially, under the trees
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] uh, you know, kind of slow, and, as you say, very expensive.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] I caught Wolfe with, uh, uh, one, uh, one of the sales where they have those big blocks for fifty cents, and, uh
[speaker001:] Oh, yeah.
[speaker002:] I bought about [LAUGHTER] twenty of them.
[speaker001:] I guess you did too. It's what they've done in the spring
[speaker002:] Uh, well, I put, you know
[speaker001:] or the fall.
[speaker002:] that was late, that was like,
[speaker001:] Yeah, because I started to say, you can, there's different times they say it's okay to do it.
[speaker002:] Yeah, that was like September, I think.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] And I had to water it, you know
[speaker001:] Yeah
[speaker002:] gosh.
[speaker001:] keep it damp. Well, my, out here, you know, we don't have as many trees in Plano, at least the area where, we're over by Collin Creek Mall, and, but a lot of the shrubbery that we have in the front, like the pittosporum all died, and all those variegated, uh, things died. So we pretty much go with that dwarf Yaupon and that Yaupon holly, and they just live,
[speaker002:] Yeah, they're pretty tough, uh,
[speaker001:] Yeah, you can, you can stand those.
[speaker002:] Pittosporum is kind of borderline here
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] and usually it'll do pretty well, but, uh, you know, every once in a while we get one of these really cold deals
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] and it zaps it.
[speaker001:] Well it's kind of like one of these,
[speaker002:] Oh, wax leaf, wax leaf ligustrum is the same way.
[speaker001:] Same way, uh-huh. That, they, they warned me of that one finally. And I said, You know, you need to either read Neal Sperry's book before you shop or get a reputable nursery, because lot of places that would, are just trying to sell whatever was pretty out there, and we didn't know the difference. And every year we learn one more thing that we didn't know before. Like about these [LAUGHTER] mums.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Okay, next year, I'll do pansies.
[speaker002:] Your list is growing,
[speaker001:] And my backyard, we had it really nice, and then my husband wanted a Labrador puppy, and so, it was about, I guess he's three now, so the first summer he was here he dug up all of my bushes and plants
[speaker002:] Oh, yeah, oh, gee.
[speaker001:] and brought them to the front door and the back door [LAUGHTER] and laid them on the patio.
[speaker002:] Um.
[speaker001:] So, it's like our backyard is just kind of like, as long as he won't damage it, fine, and if he'll, if there's anything he'll hurt, we just don't put it out there any more.
[speaker002:] Yeah, kind of cuts your possibilities for the flower beds, yeah.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh. Very much, but, uh.
[speaker002:] I had a, had a small vegetable garden that, uh,
[speaker001:] You did.
[speaker002:] It did pretty well, it's, it's like on the
[speaker001:] Huh.
[speaker002:] side, the apron of the, of the parkway out behind the garage
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] and, uh, our, our garages come in from the back, you know, from the alley
[speaker001:] So do ours, yeah.
[speaker002:] and, uh, it's, it's a little piece of land over there [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] What did you grow?
[speaker002:] Well, I had, uh, tomatoes and, and, uh, uh, peppers, and I had,
[speaker001:] That is amazing.
[speaker002:] I had okra, and by the fence I had cucumbers, which, which didn't do real well, uh
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] they kind of came out looking like gourds.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Well, put them in a salad, though, and you say, well, I made it though, at least it's mine.
[speaker002:] But I had squash, I had zucchini and, and yellow crook neck squash,

[speaker001:] Where have you been on a wonderful vacation?
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] Well normally when we go on vacation we go home, to Colorado.
[speaker001:] Oh, that's where we go home, too.
[speaker002:] Really. Yeah, Colorado Springs is where we're from.
[speaker001:] That's where we go.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] How funny.
[speaker001:] Yes, my husband's family lives just off of Academy Boulevard at Maize land.
[speaker002:] Really?
[speaker001:] Yes.
[speaker002:] We live up, up, uh, Lake, in the Broadmoor area
[speaker001:] Uh.
[speaker002:] that's where my fam-, my in-laws are.
[speaker001:] Oh, we've been there. We haven't skied at Broadmoor. We went there last year at Christmas time and it was twenty-seven below.
[speaker002:] Oh.
[speaker001:] So we had to cancel our ski lessons [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Uh-huh, as of you can't even ski there anymore.
[speaker001:] Really?
[speaker002:] Yeah, they closed it down.
[speaker001:] Oh, just this year?
[speaker002:] Uh-huh
[speaker001:] Oh, my,
[speaker002:] they don't have enough money
[speaker001:] Uh.
[speaker002:] to keep it going, it doesn't, doesn't pay. So.
[speaker001:] So that wouldn't be a good spot to go on a vacation, now
[speaker002:] Well
[speaker001:] if you were a skier.
[speaker002:] you know, well, now I don't know. Now Colorado Springs is real accessible to Lake Breckenridge
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] it's only a couple of hours away. And, uh, so, it's, it might not be too bad if you want to go skiing somewhere else. But, you can't, can't ski up there any more.
[speaker001:] No.
[speaker002:] Oh, I'd like to go on vacation. I c-, my husband and I want to go to Florida
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] to go to Disney World, but we have two little ones
[speaker001:] Yes.
[speaker002:] that are under two right now, so we want to wait until they're a little bit older
[speaker001:] Oh.
[speaker002:] to do that, and,
[speaker001:] Well, we went on a family cruise last year, on the Premier Family Cruise Line [baby] and then we went to Disney. It was all part of the package.
[speaker002:] Oh.
[speaker001:] And on the cruise ship they had Mickey and Minnie and Chip and Dale and Goofy and Donald Duck, and it was really oriented toward little kids.
[speaker002:] Well, how fun.
[speaker001:] So the kids could eat with Chip and Dale, you know, and, you know
[speaker002:] Oh yeah,
[speaker001:] it was just a lot of fun.
[speaker002:] Oh, I bet.
[speaker001:] So then we were on the cruise for three days in the Bahamas, and then landed at Cape Canaveral and then drove over to Orlando and spent four days at Disney.
[speaker002:] Wow, well that sounds pretty,
[speaker001:] Yes, that was the way to travel.
[speaker002:] Yeah, that sounds pretty good.
[speaker001:] Yes.
[speaker002:] And it was all a big package deal
[speaker001:] Yes.
[speaker002:] where you just pay one price
[speaker001:] That's right.
[speaker002:] and get everything?
[speaker001:] That's right, and kids are really cheaper, too.
[speaker002:] Really.
[speaker001:] We really lucked out because the ship we were supposed to be on developed engine trouble two days before our cruise, so they said we could either cancel, reschedule, or take whatever was available. So we took whatever was available, and we left a day early, [throat clearing] and they put us up at the Cocoa Beach Hilton, and the ship that was available, the only, uh, rooms that hadn't been booked were the suites.
[speaker002:] Wow.
[speaker001:] So we got the suites at the same price as a regular cabin.
[speaker002:] Oh
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] what a deal.
[speaker001:] So then our cruise was actually extended a day, and our Disney was extended a day, so we turned a seven day trip into ten
[speaker002:] Great,
[speaker001:] and they paid for everything.
[speaker002:] Well, that's great.
[speaker001:] Yes.
[speaker002:] Oh.
[speaker001:] So that was a wonderful vacation.
[speaker002:] Yeah, I bet. That sounds like the way I'd want to do it [LAUGHTER]
[speaker001:] Yes.
[speaker002:] I think.
[speaker001:] Well, what kind of things do you like [baby] to do when you go to Colorado?
[speaker002:] Oh, well, we like to ski, of course, so we spend so much time with our families
[speaker001:] Yes.
[speaker002:] uh, and seeing our friends, because we moved to Texas about two years ago. So when we go back we are just jam packed full of people to see and things to do
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] so we don't, we don't get a lot of time to just vacation. We did, um, last year, though, go to San Antonio for Memorial Day
[speaker001:] Oh.
[speaker002:] which was fun just to get to kind of walk around
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] and see the sights down there and do that kind of thing. Uh, but, [inhaling] you know, other, other than that, with, with both my kids being under two, it's real hard
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] to do any, any kind of
[speaker001:] That would be,
[speaker002:] events that, uh
[speaker001:] Yes.
[speaker002:] don't, don't require [LAUGHTER] as much,
[speaker001:] I know, I think one of the places I always hit in Colorado, is that current outlet store.
[speaker002:] Yeah [LAUGHTER]. That's funny *needs slash because A asks what was said before B repeats word "funny"
[speaker001:] That's what,
[speaker002:] funny you should mention that, I just got my catalog this morning and was looking through it.
[speaker001:] Oh, with the Santa Claus on the cover.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Yes, I've already ordered from that one, but we will probably be going up at Thanksgiving this year, so.
[speaker002:] Oh, do you live, where do you, what state are you in?
[speaker001:] Texas.
[speaker002:] Oh, you're in Texas.
[speaker001:] Yes, I'm in the Dallas area.
[speaker002:] So am I.
[speaker001:] In Plano.
[speaker002:] I'm in Garland.
[speaker001:] Uh
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] so that's not too far.
[speaker002:] I talked to somebody from Wisconsin or something the other day.
[speaker001:] Oh.
[speaker002:] Yeah, so I guess they get people from all over.
[speaker001:] Yes.
[speaker002:] Yeah, driving for Thanksgiving, that's going to be quite a drive for,
[speaker001:] Well it was when we left last year. We left on the eighteenth, right before that big snow storm hit Colorado
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and we pulled in just as it hit.
[speaker002:] Wow.
[speaker001:] So, how do you go? Do you go up through the Raton Pass, when you go up there?
[speaker002:] Uh, no, Ret-, oh, well, wait a minute, yeah, we do, we do.
[speaker001:] That's on like Route two eighty-seven or something like that.
[speaker002:] Yeah, uh-huh, and then we go straight up through Trinidad
[speaker001:] Okay.
[speaker002:] and straight up I Twenty-five from there.
[speaker001:] Okay, we, uh, went a different way when we went last Christmas because of bad weather and because we were pulling a little U Haul trailer, because we had to take our dog in the car, there was no room for luggage. So, we went all interstate. We went up, um, through Oklahoma City
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and then up through, uh, Kansas, and then turned left and went in on I Seventy
[speaker002:] Oh.
[speaker001:] and it wound up only taking us about an extra hour. It was a little more mile wise
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] but because you could go sixty-five miles an hour on the,

[speaker001:] Now is it Stacy?
[speaker002:] Angie.
[speaker001:] Angie, I'm sorry.
[speaker002:] Okay.
[speaker001:] Well, now, so if you were going to have a dinner party, what would you make?
[speaker002:] Um, let's see, uh, I like seafood. Uh, let's see, uh, shrimp, steamed she-, uh, shellfish with maybe herbs. Uh, [lipsmack] spicy lobster with lem-, linguini.
[speaker001:] That sounds good.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Now what is, uh, what is, uh, the steamed shellfish you said?
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] And what would that be like, a clam or, uh,
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] Okay.
[speaker002:] Yeah. Uh, I think hors d'oeuvres are good, too. Uh, and that way, you can have a variety. Uh,
[speaker001:] So if you have a, a dinner party and you're going to serve, uh, seafood for supper, what type of, uh, hors d'oeuvres would you serve prior to the meal?
[speaker002:] [Lipsmack] Uh,
[speaker001:] Like cheeses or fruits or vegetables or,
[speaker002:] Yeah, fresh vegetables would be good or, uh, just,
[speaker001:] Probably not nachos and dip, huh?
[speaker002:] No.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] And would you, uh, would it be appropriate to, uh, drink with the, uh, prior, when you have the hors d'oeuvres?
[speaker002:] Yeah, yeah.
[speaker001:] Okay. And then when you serve the meal, what type of wine would you have with, uh, with the, with seafood?
[speaker002:] Oh, all these hard questions [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Uh, what, white wine?
[speaker001:] That would be my guess.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] And,
[speaker002:] I'm not really a drinker, so I'm not, I don't know a lot about that.
[speaker001:] And then, uh, uh, dessert. Something sweet?
[speaker002:] Oh, goodness. Uh, chocolate, something chocolate. Uh [LAUGHTER],
[speaker001:] You must like chocolate.
[speaker002:] Yes.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Well, let's see. Usually when we have a dinner party, I always, I like to grill.
[speaker002:] Oh, you do?
[speaker001:] So, we might have some cocktails ahead of time and maybe some, uh, some dip, uh, some cheese. One of our favorites is, uh, to take some, let's see Philadelphia cream cheese I think, {A is that what comes in
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] those little blocks? }
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] And pour cocktail sauce over the top of it and then get these little canned shrimp and, uh, wash them and cool them and then dump them in the, uh, sauce and then take crackers and then you just dip the cracker in the sauce with the clams and the cream cheese and you have a real nice dip that goes good with a cocktail. And then I like to barbecue, like steaks or pork chops. And then we have, uh, s-, oh, lot of times we'll have baked potatoes with them
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and a salad and then, uh, I don't know what we usually have for dessert. Cake sometimes, but, uh, that's what we would do for a dinner party, I guess.
[speaker002:] That sounds good, too.
[speaker001:] But that's, I guess when you talk about dinner party, that's probably not, uh, that's more for like when friends come
[speaker002:] Traditional
[speaker001:] over.
[speaker002:] right?
[speaker001:] Traditional, yeah.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] I wouldn't be the big, uh, snotty kind.
[speaker002:] I just started,
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] I just really started, uh, uh, learning about that and I bought a Martha Stewart, I don't know if you've heard of her.
[speaker001:] Huh-uh.
[speaker002:] Her cookbook and she talks about catering and, uh, you know, goes into, goes into all that and the different types of, uh, [lipsmack] uh, different types of parties, you know, different types of foods.
[speaker001:] Oh, well, do you work in a, uh, in a setting where you, uh, are in the food business?
[speaker002:] Um, my father owns a restaurant.
[speaker001:] Oh, in, uh,
[speaker002:] It's, it's just a, uh, c-, a cafe, so it's not really anything, you know, that I want to, it's not the same [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Is it in Dallas?
[speaker002:] Uh, it's in Lewisville.
[speaker001:] Okay, all right. So you graduated from which high school?
[speaker002:] Trinity.
[speaker001:] Trinity, okay. And that's a public school or private?
[speaker002:] That's public.
[speaker001:] Huh, okay, I have to get to know this area a little better, I guess. Uh, well, is your father's cafe, uh, one that you could cater out of?
[speaker002:] No, uh-huh, *listen; mistranscription of 'uh-uh'? it's not.
[speaker001:] Um, and he's not interested in letting his twenty-one year old daughter experiment with it probably.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Uh.
[speaker001:] Well, let's see, what else for catering. Uh,
[speaker002:] Let's see, what about Hawaiian luau.
[speaker001:] Oh, that would be good.
[speaker002:] Could have, uh, uh, fruits and, and pineapple, uh, let's see, uh,
[speaker001:] And you could actually go with, uh, a chicken if you wanted to.
[speaker002:] I think, I think decorating your food is, you know, really,

[speaker001:] Well, tell me about your home.
[speaker002:] Okay. Uh, right now we're living in, well it's me, my wife and, uh, two young boys. And, uh, right now we're in a, uh, I guess it's either a zero lot line or a garden home.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Which you might call it. So we don't have a, a big yard. Uh, but, uh, when my wife and I first moved in, it was just the two of us. So it was enough.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Uh, and it's, uh, I guess what they call a story and a half. Because it's not a full two story.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] Where, you know, everything on top is on bottom. So, it's got real high ceilings on half the house and the other half is just standard sized ceilings.
[speaker001:] Huh.
[speaker002:] And, uh, it's about a five year old house now.
[speaker001:] It sounds nice.
[speaker002:] It's, uh, pretty nice. Unfortunately, the builder who built it went out of business already [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Oh, yeah?
[speaker002:] Yeah. It was a, Landmark is the one who built it.
[speaker001:] Yeah. Well, you know, these guys that gambled high
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] lost big you know.
[speaker002:] That's true.
[speaker001:] And, uh
[speaker002:] Exactly what happened to them.
[speaker001:] I'm insulating myself from that problem. I'm building my own house.
[speaker002:] Oh, that's nice.
[speaker001:] And as I look out the window of my trailer, I can envision all the insulation that's going up [clicking] today [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Oh, really.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] Are you doing it yourself?
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] Wow.
[speaker001:] I used to be a builder.
[speaker002:] Oh, that's nice.
[speaker001:] And I retired about five years ago and
[speaker002:] Oh, I see.
[speaker001:] started college.
[speaker002:] Huh.
[speaker001:] And now I'm a college educated builder [LAUGHTER]. There's still no work, you know.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] Yeah.
[speaker001:] So, uh, you know, I decided this summer that, uh, you know, we had enough credit on the credit cards to buy the materials so I did.
[speaker002:] That's great.
[speaker001:] And, uh, see the, the, the state has a law that says you cannot borrow the money to build your own home.
[speaker002:] R-, is that so? I didn't know that.
[speaker001:] You can borrow the money to pay somebody else to build your house but you can't borrow the money to build your own.
[speaker002:] Well that sounds kind of dumb.
[speaker001:] [Static] Well, it's to protect the, the banks from guys that say yeah I want to build my own house and go out a build a spec home
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and then it doesn't sell and then the bank's
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] holding the bag.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Well.
[speaker002:] Huh.
[speaker001:] As, as you know, anything that involves the government is, works half as well as it's supposed to costs three times as much. Right?
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] That's right [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Hence the savings and loan problem we have.
[speaker002:] Yeah, that's true.
[speaker001:] But, uh, you know, my home is, uh, fairly simple. It's designed to be added on to.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh. That's good.
[speaker001:] Yeah. Well, I figure it's just me and my wife but, you know, I like to do stuff with my hands and whatnot, so I want
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] to have a shop.
[speaker002:] How big a lot do you got it on?
[speaker001:] Ten acres.
[speaker002:] Wow. That's nice. That's real nice.
[speaker001:] Well, yeah. It's really nice too because I can't see my nearest neighbor. He's on the other side of a hill.
[speaker002:] Oh.
[speaker001:] And my second nearest neighbor is a dot on the horizon.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Seriously.
[speaker002:] God. That's pretty good.
[speaker001:] Well, in the winter time, I can see, see another guy but, you know, he's
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] I can just make out his place, you know.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] I've got a thirty mile view to the east and about ten miles to the north.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] And, uh,
[speaker002:] Oh, that's pretty good.
[speaker001:] Yeah. Well, I took a lot of time in choosing this site [clicking]
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] because the, the house has no heating or air conditioning.
[speaker002:] Oh, you, you, you don't plan on putting any, any of that in?
[speaker001:] Well, it's got a, a very small furnace.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] And a, uh, we'll use a wood burning stove as well.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] But, in the house itself, I've been working inside, you know, these, lo-, these many months
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and I have not had to use the heat.
[speaker002:] Wow.
[speaker001:] Because it's all geothermal.
[speaker002:] Yeah. That's pretty good.
[speaker001:] And with all the, see I've got, on the south side is all glass. Well, as much as I could get in it, you know.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] And, uh, the east side is glass. I've got one, two, three, four, five, [very faint] six windows in the east side on forty-eight feet. So it's almost all glass.
[speaker002:] Wow.
[speaker001:] And, uh,
[speaker002:] My wife would love that [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Oh, yeah. I mean, you know.
[speaker002:] She loves lots of windows.
[speaker001:] There's no place in the house where you can stand and not see four windows.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] That's great.
[speaker001:] So, uh,
[speaker002:] Is it a single story?
[speaker001:] Well, not really. It's, uh, it's on the side of a hill.
[speaker002:] Oh, I see.
[speaker001:] So the first, you know, the, the, the, what I call residential level
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] at the side that's in the hill is about four feet deep.
[speaker002:] Um, I see.
[speaker001:] And the side that's on the, uh, the other side is about six feet high.
[speaker002:] Oh.
[speaker001:] So I've got a pretty good grade there.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] And then when I put the verandas whi-, which will be twelve feet out all the way around on the north, south and east sides
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] that will define the shop.
[speaker002:] [Noise] Yeah, that's kind of like, like a Victorian style?
[speaker001:] Exactly.
[speaker002:] Yeah. I, I've always liked that. The, you know, I, we don't have much yard but I built a small deck in the back.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] But, you know, I, I see these magazines where, you know, dig your, your own deck.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] I, I kind of wish I had them, those size property and, and, uh, one with a grade on it so I can build a real nice deck.

[speaker002:] how many children do you have now
[speaker001:] well I have five
[speaker002:] you have five well you do have a hard time finding time then don't you
[speaker001:] right well five are I mean four of them are grown they're in college or just out of college so I really have just a thirteen year old at home
[speaker002:] um-hum you sound so young
[speaker001:] well I work at it I try to fool everybody uh-huh
[speaker002:] to have them uh I think you're doing a good job I just have one child and uh I don't think um well there's not much I can do about it my my wife and I are uh in our forties you know so uh
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] but it's hard to raise one child without them thinking they're the they're the pivot point of the universe
[speaker001:] I think you're right because I was an only child too and that's one reason I have so many because I really I enjoyed the big family
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] and my thirteen year old is pretty separate from her brother and sisters and so she's sort of like an only child and it's the same type of thing um
[speaker002:] um-hum I have a younger brother like that I'm in my forties like I say and I have a brother in his twenties and I was I was the youngest
[speaker001:] uh-huh yeah
[speaker002:] so I understand how that worked and he was treated like he had five fathers or something
[speaker001:] right that's exactly how it is you know she's got all these sisters and her brother to take care of her when things don't go right she just calls one of them you know but um
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] yeah it's it's a little bit difficult though I think it was easier when they all had each other and could entertain each other and I was home more and
[speaker002:] did y'all do a lot of organized things like uh Little League uh soccer and
[speaker001:] we we really did not my next oldest daughter that's in college in California is a world twirling champion she twirls a baton and we did a lot of things together she and I did a lot of things together and flew we've flown all over the world for her to compete and to perform
[speaker002:] uh-huh um-hum
[speaker001:] and that was a lot of fun but that that I guess you could consider that organized I mean there's a competition all the time we were very heavy into that
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] other than that they were pretty much and maybe dancing school for a while or mainly school sports and things like that
[speaker002:] you know I think that's probably true the if you have one child or fewer you get involved in organized events or activities and if you have a large number of children or then you don't
[speaker001:] uh-huh well you can't afford to
[speaker002:] no you can't and there's not enough time um like my son is in uh Little League this year he's ten
[speaker001:] right
[speaker002:] and they practice three times a week and they have a game and it's just uh if there were more than one child I don't know there there would be no way to do it
[speaker001:] right that's right
[speaker002:] you know one parent go in one direction and I'd have to go in the other and
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] we could only cover two at that
[speaker001:] yeah well I know I spent hours in the gym everyday with my daughter and my little one also competed because really she had no choice she had to go with me
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] so the three of us just spent a lot of time traveling and and competing and of course the competing itself really didn't matter what it was it was making the friends and going all the places and it was a really neat experience but it took our total time I did not work um when I did this now I do work full time
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] and it's just my thirteen year old and myself and so we really have to keep it together to get just her activities in and still have time to spend with each other
[speaker002:] I don't think although I think a a more than one child probably three children is probably the ideal to me but I'm not sure I could afford three I most certainly couldn't educate three I don't know how my my parents did it
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] I mean there were five of us I don't recall you know wanting anything in particular uh but I don't know how my father did it he worked at a truck line and he just didn't make that kind of money with five children but we did okay we had a house and a home and but now my wife and I both work and we don't I don't believe we have as much as my parents did and we only have one child
[speaker001:] really well things cost a lot more I don't know how it is in Georgia and I don't think our part of the country is particularly bad compared to some
[speaker002:] um-hum um Atlanta's horrible yes have we have a lot of people moving here from Boston and and different areas and from talking to them they're shocked
[speaker001:] is it really
[speaker002:] what and they you know the housing so cheap in comparison to Boston that they jump on it they sell their house they stash away a good bit of money
[speaker001:] right that's what I've heard
[speaker002:] and come down here and I work with a lot of them they they think they they've really done something then when they get down here they realize the cost of living is outrageous
[speaker001:] hm
[speaker002:] compared to to where they came from the housing's cheaper but that's about it
[speaker001:] yeah I'm surprised to hear that I've heard very positive things about Atlanta everybody

[speaker001:] okay
[speaker002:] why don't you go ahead and start
[speaker001:] okay well we subscribe to People magazine and to Time and course I like the People magazine because it's gossipy
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] and it's fast reading and uh the Time of course is uh you know more newsworthy and and uh it has more world affair type things of course and then I will purchase a Good Housekeeping occasionally especially around the holiday time because of recipes and ideas and
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] and things like that and uh do you subscribe to any magazines
[speaker002:] um-hum yeah I well I have in a while for a while I haven't gotten any because I just find that I'm not reading what I'm getting because uh I have so much going on in my life that seems to be the last thing I pick up so I found that I was wasting my money as much as I enjoy them uh when I do subscribe I I've gotten in the past the Parents magazine and uh the Housekeeping magazine and uh
[speaker001:] uh-huh you probably have smaller children younger children my children are our children are grown
[speaker002:] yes yeah yeah yeah
[speaker001:] and uh I'm letting their mother read on the grandchildren
[speaker002:] right well I found that after a couple of years of having a Parents magazine it was getting repetitious so I kind of canceled it anyway for that reason uh the Housekeeping magazines I do like because they like you say they have nice uh recipes in them and ideas but uh lately they just been piling up on me so I figured it wasn't uh something I needed at this point in time
[speaker001:] well do you think that people subscribe to magazines as much as they used to
[speaker002:] I don't know I I well my husband would love to have more now he's the type who will get the uh Inc magazine and Money magazine and all the financial type magazines
[speaker001:] yes now my husband does that and you know and of course uh naturally Wall Street Journal you know and or Sports Illustrated but I don't know I know I see people leafing through them at the store
[speaker002:] yeah uh-huh yes um-hum
[speaker001:] but you just don't hear people talk about them and I know years ago when uh my children were young and stuff I just loved Ladies' Home Journal McCall's Good Housekeeping and I took them all and um
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] then oh I don't know what in the seventies maybe late seventies they changed their format and I haven't
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] I don't think there as good a magazine as they used to be even Good Housekeeping I don't
[speaker002:] well yeah and and some of those that have what what I consider or what I get the idea that they're maybe the the more pricier type magazines as far as women's magazines they seem to be just so chocked full of of ads
[speaker001:] oh they are my sister uh takes uh Town and Country and Vogue
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] and she sends them to me and there's really nothing in them but advertisements for very expensive clothes very expensive jewelry
[speaker002:] yeah yeah yes
[speaker001:] things that the average middle class citizen is not going to be purchasing
[speaker002:] right yeah
[speaker001:] you know and if I want to drool or if I want to see how the other half is living
[speaker002:] yes yeah
[speaker001:] you know then I can I look through them and I do I just what I do is I flip through them and and pitch them then you know they're not something I you know take any length of time over
[speaker002:] yes um-hum um-hum
[speaker001:] I have discovered that you know with my available time I would rather actually read a book than a magazine
[speaker002:] yes I enjoy books a lot more that's true
[speaker001:] yes and um so but
[speaker002:] well yeah I have certainly stopped subscribing as much as I used to other than my children have gotten you know they get tons of magazines it seems they they're always getting something in the mail
[speaker001:] yes
[speaker002:] and uh so between reading to them and uh reading the newspaper and then I have a book that I'm occasionally reading when I get a chance but I just don't get a chance for those uh newsy magazines the ones that are full of ads unless you just want to skim through while you're I I read them when I'm at a doctor's office or you know waiting on something like that
[speaker001:] yes yes I will read them in a doctor's office too as I said I I subscribe to uh to People and to Time and uh
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] and I will go through the Time but usually not to cover to cover you know I'll glance through it I'll like reading uh you know the Passage of People or something you know and uh but I do like the People magazine it it reminds me of the old time movie magazines when I was young
[speaker002:] um-hum um-hum oh uh-huh
[speaker001:] and uh that's one and you know I really like that I enjoy that it's quick reading
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] you know it doesn't require a lot of thinking and sometimes after I've worked all day and have things to do at night
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] I just I want fluff I don't want a lot of thinking
[speaker002:] um-hum um-hum that's true that kind of is a good way to do it
[speaker001:] it uh you know it's it's much more relaxing sometimes when I read Time Time magazine after I've read an article I'm real depressed over the situation of the world so well it seems like we both kind of agree on on the subject of magazines
[speaker002:] yeah yeah
[speaker001:] and uh so uh I think that probably I will end the call I've enjoyed
[speaker002:] okay

[speaker001:] All right. I think that gets us off to discussing the topic for tonight.
[speaker002:] Which is movies, correct?
[speaker001:] That is correct.
[speaker002:] Okay.
[speaker001:] Are you a movie buff?
[speaker002:] Um, yeah. I don't like going to see them in the theaters but outside of that, rent a lot, watch them on T V mostly.
[speaker001:] Well, I have a V C R and I see most all of mine there. What have you seen recently that you enjoyed?
[speaker002:] Uh, I don't know, um, actually earlier tonight we were watching TO LIVE AND DIE IN L A. Have you seen that movie?
[speaker001:] No, I haven't.
[speaker002:] It's a kind of one of those psycho ones.
[speaker001:] Now, I, I live alone. Consequently, I don't like these sa-, psycho things.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] Oh, it's not too bad. One of those cop thrillers but,
[speaker001:] Oh, okay. Have you seen the mov-, if, do you have a V C R?
[speaker002:] Yes, we do.
[speaker001:] Have you seen the movie CLASS ACTION with Gene Hackman?
[speaker002:] Uh, no, I haven't yet.
[speaker001:] I saw it this weekend and it is, uh, to me an outstanding movie. I thoroughly enjoyed it. He is, uh, an attorney and his daughter is an attorney and she has a suit against his company. You know, it's one of those things.
[speaker002:] Yeah, that,
[speaker001:] But there's a lot of l-, well, it's just [breathing] it's something that anyone can watch and enjoy.
[speaker002:] He's a good actor though.
[speaker001:] Beg your pardon?
[speaker002:] Um, Gene Hackman's a good actor.
[speaker001:] Yes, he is.
[speaker002:] I think. Do you see HOOSIERS?
[speaker001:] Yes. I've seen HOOSIERS. Saw it just again the other night, for,
[speaker002:] Yeah, actually I, we saw her just the other night too.
[speaker001:] Oh, did you?
[speaker002:] Yeah. It's one of our favorite movies. I, I live with, um, a roommate and my girlfriend the three of us. We've seen that movie probably six times in the last six months.
[speaker001:] Have you seen the movie, um, CROSSING DELANCY?
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Now, that's one I have watched, oh, six or eight times. I always feel so good [LAUGHTER] when I get through with that movie.
[speaker002:] Yeah, I like those movies that you watch time and time again.
[speaker001:] I do too. DIRTY DANCING and CROSSING DELANCY are two of my favorite. So, well what business are you in?
[speaker002:] I'm, I'm an electrical engineer.
[speaker001:] Oh. In New Hampshire. All right.
[speaker002:] I work in Massachusetts actually.
[speaker001:] Oh, all right. Okay. So is everything going all right up there?
[speaker002:] Um, it's only about, um, half an hour. I live wi-, on the border.
[speaker001:] Oh, well that's that bad then. Half an hour, we do that just going to downtown Dallas.
[speaker002:] That's right.
[speaker001:] So,
[speaker002:] See we live up in tax free New Hampshire and drive down to Massachusetts to work.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] That makes a lot of sense [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] But, um, we, are you a native of that part of the country?
[speaker002:] Yeah, I grew up in New Hampshire. It seems, southern town, it's called Portsmouth. It's, I don't know, fifteen minutes from the Mass-, border and five minutes from the main border. *main Maine? We live right in the corner.
[speaker001:] Oh.
[speaker002:] That one little spot in New Hampshire, we have ten miles of coastline, I live on one of tho-, that little ten mile spot.
[speaker001:] Uh, sounds wonderful. Did you have damage this year with hurricanes?
[speaker002:] Not up, um, where I live but further down the coast in Massachusetts they got hit pretty bad.
[speaker001:] I happened to be in Nassau and we got the backlash of that thing. And they had record high waves, thirty year high waves come in there, and it was quite an experience so. Well, what movies are you looking forward to seeing now?
[speaker002:] Um, well, I'm, I'm only twenty-seven years old so THE DOORS movie, that's out on video. I want to watch that.
[speaker001:] Okay. Have you seen GREEN CARD?
[speaker002:] That would be pretty good. No, I haven't seen that one.
[speaker001:] That's a real warm movie. It, it really just turned out nicely. So I would recommend that if you have a chance.
[speaker002:] I'm in for it. We rent a lot of movies so we, we often sit around and say, what movies should we rent?
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] And we don't know.
[speaker001:] Well if you, if you can get GREEN CARD, go for it.
[speaker002:] All right, we'll try that one.
[speaker001:] I have been working at, uh, as an accountant at the medical school here in Dallas and I have watched, uh, GROSS ANATOMY. Have you seen that one?
[speaker002:] Yeah, I did.
[speaker001:] Okay. And I don't know I can associate with some of the people in that movie because of the young students I see over at the medical school. But I hope you have a very Merry Christmas.
[speaker002:] You too.
[speaker001:] I'm looking forward to it.
[speaker002:] I think we're going to have a white Christmas up here just like the song says.
[speaker001:] Well,

[speaker001:] so what kind of neat hobbies do you have
[speaker002:] well I like gardening a lot I like to be outside um
[speaker001:] I like gardening I wish I had a green thumb though I've got a brown thumb that's what everything turns
[speaker002:] uh oh is but do you try keep trying anyway
[speaker001:] I keep trying uh you know you just can't can't give up on it uh I uh I bought some uh plants from Michigan Bulb Company they send them to you all ready alive
[speaker002:] no no I've never had any luck with their's
[speaker001:] oh really
[speaker002:] right
[speaker001:] I guess I guess these are going to croak too since I've got cats I decided to get some catnip
[speaker002:] oh
[speaker001:] lots and lots of catnip so it's it's still green and it's been two days so I'm encouraged
[speaker002:] no I I haven't had had good luck with that company uh I think some of it depends how long things stay in the mail probably
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] but I've had to to get my money back from them and had better luck with with some of the the more expensive companies
[speaker001:] yeah there's a uh I don't know do you have Lowe's up there
[speaker002:] because they uh well
[speaker001:] its uh building uh contractor or building supplies place
[speaker002:] no
[speaker001:] um they they also have a garden shop and they they offer just as good a guarantee if you buy it from them
[speaker002:] uh-huh oh that's great now our local stores don't don't offer any guarantee
[speaker001:] yeah um
[speaker002:] but some of the the mail order ones that I've dealt with for roses and that they offer through through the first Summer
[speaker001:] hum yeah
[speaker002:] which at least if they if they take off the first year they're probably going to come up unless there's uh a terrible freeze or something
[speaker001:] yeah yeah yeah something like that uh I got a whole bunch of bulbs along with this stuff so I'm going to wait on those
[speaker002:] oh they're bulbs for Spring or Fall
[speaker001:] uh probably Spring but uh I don't much care about things like that I'll I'll make a little sort of greenhouse a miniature greenhouse to put all this stuff in something something to keep me occupied you see
[speaker002:] uh-huh uh-huh
[speaker001:] I'll uh buy some plastic and make a little house and
[speaker002:] cute
[speaker001:] yeah and watch the cats tear it up
[speaker002:] right I don't know that do cats bother bulbs I think more the mice or other rodents
[speaker001:] they they just like to get in and dig
[speaker002:] oh I see so if you have fresh dirt they'll
[speaker001:] oh they love to dig I had I had some uh I don't know what kind they are I've already forgotten just regular old flower seeds and I planted them and I was so I was so thrilled because they came up I mean nice green shoots coming up all over the place and then my cats got into it and started digging and that took care of that
[speaker002:] uh gee
[speaker001:] so I have to hang these things high so they can't get to them especially the catnip
[speaker002:] how many cats do you have oh okay
[speaker001:] three
[speaker002:] actually I just put a uh little fence around my yard uh um which is I suppose technically illegal but I had so many groundhogs last year that I think they'll let me get by with it and it it's got this one inch mesh and what I've noticed it's kept the cats out and I love it
[speaker001:] um yeah yeah because they they like to get in and fertilize things too but uh why would it be illegal
[speaker002:] well because we have these town uh I live in a townhouse and anyway all of our areas have associations that you have to get permission
[speaker001:] oh uh yeah right
[speaker002:] and you know they want uh privacy fences
[speaker001:] well if nobody yeah if nobody complains you're all right
[speaker002:] right right well they do walking tours too so
[speaker001:] um
[speaker002:] but at least because I back up to um a hillside where the uh wild animals are I think I can probably justify it
[speaker001:] um yeah an and if somebody raises a stink about it you can always go before the association and argue your case anyway
[speaker002:] right right I mean
[speaker001:] you know you don't have to put up with all these wild critters coming into your property
[speaker002:] right the first year the deer ate my garden and I was just astounded I'm going deer right here in the city
[speaker001:] yeah right here Bambi
[speaker002:] exactly
[speaker001:] uh gosh
[speaker002:] and so
[speaker001:] well let's see other than gardening which I fiddle at I'm not very good at what else do I mostly just computer stuff
[speaker002:] oh
[speaker001:] I just like playing with my computer and doing stuff on that uh cooking that's not really a hobby it's a necessity but but I enjoy it I like to think that I'm a very good cook
[speaker002:] oh great
[speaker001:] hobbies that's about it I don't have much time for hobbies so uh between being a student and trying to run a business on the side you don't have a lot of time
[speaker002:] right that keeps you busy
[speaker001:] yeah and raising cats
[speaker002:] I mean that could become a hobby
[speaker001:] well it's it started out as a hobby actually uh it just it developed into sort of a business uh you know we breed them and all that
[speaker002:] uh-huh um
[speaker001:] but we didn't you know we didn't really start it for the money it was just they were fun to have around and we figured if we're going to have them we might as well have some purebreds and and now it developed in to going to cat shows and finding studs for them and you know all this kind of stuff
[speaker002:] uh-huh uh-huh what kind of cats are they
[speaker001:] uh I've got a uh a Bombay a Turkish Van and a Himalayan Persian
[speaker002:] wow
[speaker001:] yeah the himmy is probably the sweetest one she's she's just a little sweetheart we uh the the Bombay had a litter uh last October and I just got her back from the vet this morning getting her spayed only going to breed them once
[speaker002:] oh okay
[speaker001:] and uh she's not she's not feeling too great today
[speaker002:] um is that typical to only breed them once
[speaker001:] no uh most most breeders are in it for the money so they'll breed they'll breed them twice a year
[speaker002:] uh-huh uh-huh
[speaker001:] and I I just think that it's kind of I do n't know it's kind of cruel you know they just they just breed these they breed them before they're ready uh and
[speaker002:] right
[speaker001:] you're never you're never real and and they they do a lot of inbreeding too and so you end up with you know kind of strange kittens
[speaker002:] uh-huh uh-huh
[speaker001:] and I just don't like that
[speaker002:] so will you uh breed one of the litter then next year
[speaker001:] we're we sold all that litter
[speaker002:] oh
[speaker001:] um we there's not that much call to for Bombay's
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] um they're they're registered but they're not they're not uh they're not show cats
[speaker002:] oh I see
[speaker001:] uh so all you can do is sell them as pet quality
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] uh so what you've got is a registered pet and not too many people want Bombay's they want things like himmy Persians and Turkish Vans
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] Turkish Vans if you've never seen one I mean you wouldn't know that it was a pure bred it's just uh medium size short hair cat it's got he's mostly white with uh brown and black patches
[speaker002:] oh
[speaker001:] but they have nice personalities and they're very inquisitive um now the himmy we'll probably breed her a couple of times and we'll we'll end up keeping one out of each litter and then breeding those
[speaker002:] right
[speaker001:] it's just the stud fees are so much though it'll cost about three hundred dollars for a stud for her we we want to breed her with a champion so
[speaker002:] uh-huh right now these are long haired
[speaker001:] yeah the Persian is
[speaker002:] uh-huh uh-huh
[speaker001:] and the other two are short hairs
[speaker002:] right oh that's nice
[speaker001:] yeah she's uh she's sweet going to have some nice kittens I hope
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] she's uh she's if you if you know what a Himalayan is generally they look something like uh well they come in a lot of different colors people don't realize it but they're sort of like uh Siamese in a way they have the uh they have the uh they have the gloves on the paws and they're they're usually two colored uh but this one is uh is she's predominantly predominantly uh black but she has chocolate uh paws chocolate stomach and silver on her hindquarters and yeah she's she's quite attractive looking
[speaker002:] gee uh-huh uh-huh
[speaker001:] hope hope the stud will find her attractive
[speaker002:] and that she has kittens that look like her
[speaker001:] and and that she has a whole bunch of kittens but we have to be careful uh you know we have to get a particular color point uh stud you can't just breed them with anything we have to get a uh we have to get a silver point himmy so the silver will be predominate in the kittens
[speaker002:] I see
[speaker001:] that's it that's the fun part trying to figure out what you've got to breed them with can't just go out there and say okay you guys breed you know
[speaker002:] you can't just tell them that anyway but oh dear well it really sounds like uh uh a business more than a hobby
[speaker001:] that's right well actually I mean it it is a business in a way but it it's a lot of fun as a hobby especially when you go to shows and get to see all the different cats we're we're about to get another breed we're going we're going to buy a Devon Rex and I didn't I don't like Devon Rexes at first it's a well actually it's a mutant it it comes from England and uh from in the county of Devon
[speaker002:] what is it oh
[speaker001:] and it's a mutant cat and they're they're pretty expensive we're going to we're going to shell out probably about a thousand bucks for one um they're very thin they're they're they're long and lanky and skinny and they have real short hair it's curly as a matter of fact
[speaker002:] um
[speaker001:] um yeah it it it's a strange looking cat uh I didn't like them at first they've got great big ears
[speaker002:] huh interesting

[speaker001:] All right.
[speaker002:] Okay. Well, I can go ahead and start and tell you mine and,
[speaker001:] Okay.
[speaker002:] We're from San Antonio and that's where I grew up,
[speaker001:] Oh,
[speaker002:] So I was used to the heat, out here right now,
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] Gosh, it gets to about seventies, high seventies and it gets very cold at night.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And Monterey it's, um, right on the coast. And, I don't know if your familiar with California coastline, *your -] you're but we're we're about two hours, about a two hour drive south of San Francisco,
[speaker001:] Oh, okay.
[speaker002:] And it's, uh, really nice. It's a big area for people to come from the different, uh, countries, mostly like Japan, Germany and England. And they usually go to Carmel and vacation on the beaches, so it's, it's pretty nice, uh, year round. But, uh, cool, always cool in the evenings. And warm, warm in the Summer, but it's stays pretty cold even, uh, during the Winter, for as nice as it is.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And, um, we usually get a fog. Uh, right about, I guess, about four o'clock and it kind of rolls in over the coast. And, uh, then it usually breaks back off again the next morning. And if you go just a little bit ways in, I'd say about a fifteen minute drive in towards Salinas,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] uh, the weather completely changes and it gets very hot and dry and the fog never makes it that far.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] But along here it's, uh, very [LAUGHTER], very different from the Texas type weather. What's it like down there?
[speaker001:] Well, right now we're we're having the little bit of Spring that we have.
[speaker002:] Oh, really, well at least you've got some [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] We don't have many seasons here. It goes from Winter to Summer, usually.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Spring usually consists of a lot of rain. Especially thunderstorms. We've got, we had one of those blow through tonight.
[speaker002:] Oh, well, that's good.
[speaker001:] And I think we got the same thing in the forecast for the next two or three days.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] So.
[speaker002:] Have y'all been having any heat waves or like the ninety degree,
[speaker001:] It's gotten up to, uh, ninety a couple of times.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] But, basically, it's been in the low seventies and eighties.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh. Women, that's good. For this time of year.
[speaker001:] Yeah. It's not really been too bad.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Usually it sneaks on into the nineties a little earlier.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh. So do y'all have many bluebonnets and stuff this year?
[speaker001:] Yeah, quite a bit.
[speaker002:] Oh, Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Well, the season is just about over for that, uh, in fact we drove down to Corpus last week
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and, uh, there were still some paint brushes and bluebonnets down along the way.
[speaker002:] Oh, I miss that [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] drove through San Antonio and I spoke to somebody else this morning from San Antonio and were, they had, and we came back. What day was that, Sunday evening, and they had a big rainstorm come through there, part of the same thing we're getting now, I guess.
[speaker002:] Oh. Oh, well that's real nice because I can remember two years ago that in about February the hundred degree weather started in San Antonio and just continued. At least y'all are getting some rain up in Dallas. I'm glad to hear that [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Yeah. That's the second or third year in a row that we've had a real rainy Spring.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] We had a pretty rainy Fall last year, as well.
[speaker002:] Y'all weren't getting any of the strings of the tornadoes and stuff were you?
[speaker001:] Um, we've had a few down here, but not anything like Kansas.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] But this is the season for that.
[speaker002:] Oh, gosh.
[speaker001:] They do, they do pop up occasionally,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] around here.
[speaker002:] Oh [LAUGHTER]. Yeah. I really don't miss all the heat there.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] I'm getting acclimated to have the cool evenings so we get a bit of a relief.
[speaker001:] Yeah. I'm from here originally, so when it's July and August, I'm pretty well used to the,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] hundred degree temperatures.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh. Yeah [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] The biggest problem with, with the weather and the rain in this area is the soil. It's that black clay soil.
[speaker002:] Oh. Is that what Dallas is, okay. Yeah.
[speaker001:] You know, it's not sandy like most of the state is, so it doesn't absorb the water real well.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] You know, once it rains a little bit, it's, it's filled up and everything else just runs off,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] you know.
[speaker002:] Yeah. San Antonio has that same problem when the rains come. It's, it's a complete mess, everything floods, all the under passes.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] I didn't realize that Dallas had that same problem.
[speaker001:] Yeah. We have it, especially as rainy as it's been in the last couple of years. And there's a section in South Dallas that's had a whole lot of flooding problems because of the rain.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh. Well, we could use some rain up here. We're like in the bottom of the fourth year of drought,
[speaker001:] Really.
[speaker002:] up here and they had a pretty good early Spring and we got quite a bit of rain, but it wasn't enough to offset what they lost over the last four years.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And, uh, so they're still talking water rationing this Summer, so it would seem strange because in San Antonio, we had lived out, um, west of San Antonio, in Castroville,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And the water in Medina Lake and that area was really going down, that they were considering that they might have to do water rationing and I thought oh, gee I'm so glad to get out of there and get up here to the California Pacific coast where it rains and everything has flowers and there's no problem with water. And then I came here and found out they were in the, you know, four year draught [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] So I said, well, gee, this is pretty much like Texas. And it pretty much is in the middle of Summer. They have rolling hills around here but,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] um, they turn to golden dead grass,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] for the majority of the Summer just because there is no water to keep them green.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] But, um, it's a really nice area. It's just, it's just such a change from, uh, Texas because I had grown up with, uh, the heat,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] and used to essentially, like you said, you have the cold Winter and then you have the hot Summer Spring [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And, uh, to come here, it's kind of the temperate weather all year round. It's kind of like, uh, Spring, I guess, if you, year round, except, and then in the Winter and then it seems sort of like a San Antonio early Winter or Fall,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] year-round. So it seems like we only have two Springs which is, or two seasons and that would be Spring and Fall.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] We never really get any of the other ones.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] But it's a really nice, uh, change of pace.
[speaker001:] I guess I'd prefer that [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] Yeah. To the heat. I really don't miss the heat.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] Um, we do a lot of, you know, when you do a lot of outside, like running and stuff, it's just so much easier,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] up here and you don't have to worry about the high humidity.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] Does Dallas get high humidity? Or is it pretty dry.
[speaker001:] It's pretty dry. We get some when it's this rainy, but it's nothing like, I guess, San Antonio Summers, it's nothing like Houston. [Tape is cutting out.]
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] or East Texas, is a little more humid.
[speaker002:] Yeah. It seems like San Antonio is increasing in humidity over the years, because I had lived in San Antonio for about twenty years,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] and it just seemed like every year it just got more and more humid, more and more humid [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And here it's, uh, well it's right by the ocean, but, um, it's not the same as Corpus. Corpus, you get that humid salty feeling in the air.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] But here, um, well the water is extremely cold, up here, you can lay on the beach all you want, but if you want to go wind suffering or diving or swimming, you have to wear a wet suit.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And a thick wet suit at that, because it's just extremely cold and I, for some reason, because of the cold, uh, ocean, uh, water, the air is always cool. It's never humid or sticky or salty feeling, so I really like that about this area. And, uh, we just hadn't expected it, we were used to, what, uh, gulf coast weather was like,
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] when we came here to Pacific coast weather. It's just completely different and it's much nicer.
[speaker001:] Yeah. Probably the Pacific breezes make a lot of difference,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh. It does and the air doesn't feel anything like it does along the gulf coast region. But you, um, but we like it so it's a nice change. So we'll be here a couple of years and we thought well, we'll take advantage of it and see what all the Pacific coast is like.
[speaker001:] That's nice.
[speaker002:] So it's been good.
[speaker001:] Well, my wife's originally from Virginia and we lived there for about nine months and that was a real change for me.
[speaker002:] Oh, I imagine. Virginia, I imagine, gets real humid, doesn't it?
[speaker001:] Um, parts do. We, we're over in the western edge in the mountains.
[speaker002:] Oh.
[speaker001:] And, they have, of course, some pretty severe storms, Winter storms, snow and that type of thing.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] But they're so good about clearing the roads, that, you know, it doesn't usually bother you very much.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh. Yeah [LAUGHTER]. Not like Texas where everything comes to a stand still.
[speaker001:] Yeah. Their Springs and Summers are pretty mild, too. It never gets real, real hot.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh. I'll have to try that out because I had heard that North Carolina was sort of like that.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And, uh, I've just never really been in that region of the country and I guess I'm going to have to try that area sometime and see what it's like. Because a lot of people that are from that North Carolina region really like it. And, uh, they get the snow, but they said it doesn't really get messy and it doesn't really hang around that long.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] So, they, the people I know that are from there, uh, they always miss it and they want to go back [LAUGHTER]. Nothing seems quite as good. But, anyway. Well,
[speaker001:] Well, as we were talking the weather came on and there's a flash flood watch and,
[speaker002:] Oh, gee-whiz.
[speaker001:] more rain for the next three or four days.
[speaker002:] Oh, gosh. Well, I hope it moves up this way, but I'm sure it won't [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Yeah. Maybe we can send you some [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] Yeah. Because we could sure use it. Well, you think that takes care of the time and,
[speaker001:] I think that will do it.
[speaker002:] Okay. Well, I sure appreciate hearing how things are going in Texas and, uh,
[speaker001:] Well, I enjoyed talking with you Lisa,
[speaker002:] Yeah. Good luck to you.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh. You, too.
[speaker002:] Okay. We'll see you.
[speaker001:] Bye.
[speaker002:] Bye.

[speaker001:] okay now then you heard the question what what do you like to do for yourself in car automobile repairs
[speaker002:] um-hum  well I'll tell you I used to do a lot more repairs when cars were easy to work on than I do now
[speaker001:] okay
[speaker002:] I do uh I do the easy stuff now I I change oil uh and then what some people would consider a little more difficult I I'll change spark plugs and
[speaker001:] um
[speaker002:] I'll change you know points and you you know the air filters that kind of stuff
[speaker001:] well
[speaker002:] but uh I can't do as much as I used to um I used to do a whole lot more but not anymore they're just too weird to work on now
[speaker001:] is that the reason you're not doing it or are you so busy you don't have time to do it
[speaker002:] well that's part of it yeah part of it is like you said I don't have time
[speaker001:] hm well okay well being a female and being alone you I don't do anything but put gasoline in my car and let someone else check the oil even but um have you had any major repairs recently
[speaker002:] um-hum well um on this car I've got now no but I had a van before and it was only two years old and it had transmission go out on it
[speaker001:] oh
[speaker002:] but fortunately that was covered under the warranty
[speaker001:] okay well you should be very feel very fortunate I had um have a transmission replaced in an eighty six automobile and I'll declare that's an expensive
[speaker002:] hm oh yeah
[speaker001:] yes um-hum maybe I should have just traded the car in
[speaker002:] yeah sometimes it makes me wonder
[speaker001:] oh it just well I have a very comfortable car and I
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] have a health problem that I need a large comfortable car so um anyway I have a new transmission and I'm sure that any of them would have
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] cost almost or charged me almost the same amount but
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] it hurts it hurts real bad
[speaker002:] did you take it to a dealership
[speaker001:] no I took it to an independent out in Garland
[speaker002:] um-hum oh I see
[speaker001:] I had um these people were recommended by a neighbor
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] and you know that's the only thing I am not a native of Dallas
[speaker002:] oh I see
[speaker001:] so that means I have to depend on on trustworthy friends
[speaker002:] right
[speaker001:] and that's anyway it's fixed it's running and I pray that I get my thirteen hundred dollars out of it um um-hum
[speaker002:] oh gosh it's gonna have to run for a little for a while yet
[speaker001:] oh I know it uh-huh it certainly is frightening what work are you in
[speaker002:] uh I I work for TI I I work in the networking area
[speaker001:] oh okay okay
[speaker002:] do you work for TI no okay
[speaker001:] no no I have just retired from um the Southwest Medical Center
[speaker002:] oh
[speaker001:] yeah where there are a lot of people down there that could help me with my car but they're all too busy so
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] I have to do it the other way and that's find someone and pay them to do it
[speaker002:] yeah yeah
[speaker001:] so I certainly hope you have a nice New Year
[speaker002:] oh yeah I'm I'm planning on it oh it can't be any worse than last year that's for sure
[speaker001:] oh it could be but I don't much think so I'm well we're starting out a new one so let's make it a good one
[speaker002:] yeah that's true that's true yeah I'm gonna try and plan on it
[speaker001:] okay
[speaker002:] all right well I enjoyed the conversation
[speaker001:] thank you all right bye-bye
[speaker002:] all right thank you bye-bye

[speaker001:] so child care your views
[speaker002:] uh well we only have one child right now and another one on the way and right now I'm I'm home with her during the day I if I was looking for outside care I probably would stay away from professional child care centers and try to find if I was close to home relatives or people with the same values and possibly religious faith or something similar so that she would be raised in an environment that would be similar to what we would have in our own homes as as parents
[speaker001:] and what religious faith
[speaker002:] uh Latter Day Saints
[speaker001:] oh
[speaker002:] so
[speaker001:] that's that's good
[speaker002:] that's what I would try to do with a teaching background I've um had a little bit of experience with some of the child day care type situations but I've seen some good ones and I've seen some really bad ones
[speaker001:] uh they do seem to be at the outside edge of both extremes don't they
[speaker002:] uh-huh and everything in between yeah because there's in most states there's nothing to regulate them and so
[speaker001:] and whenever they are they seem to regulate the good toward the bad instead of bad toward the good
[speaker002:] right by trying to get them to conform to concern standards they uh kind of uh eliminate a lot of the uh
[speaker001:] better situations
[speaker002:] yeah the the uh what am I trying to think of that not the imagination but the creativity in in the situation and so
[speaker001:] yeah yeah that's that that's very well phrased uh so have you ever used outside child care
[speaker002:] no I haven't we've had like people come in and babysit for an hour or two but I've never had um
[speaker001:] real day care
[speaker002:] right she's she's not even a year yet so
[speaker001:] uh
[speaker002:] we haven't been in you know a lot of need yet
[speaker001:] our step daughter's ten now
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] and most of the day care has been provide for by Grandma
[speaker002:] yeah I like that situation that's usually real good
[speaker001:] but quite honestly what I believe to be the best day care situation was while we lived up the pass of Woodland Park
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] there was uh ex school teacher that uh did a small amount of before school and and after school you know kindergartners or half-dayers
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] in her home and they would read and play
[speaker002:] have a relative structured a structured
[speaker001:] seem to be
[speaker002:] activities and not just you know stick them in a corner and say you're on your own
[speaker001:] uh yeah and uh despite our beliefs she was uh one of the more um charismatic Christian faiths
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] and it worked out wonderfully
[speaker002:] yeah I know that um that I guess if you have the opportunity to pick and choose and you've got the time and that uh I don't know if the resources are the proper term you know just the the know knowledge of who's a available then you could probably find some really good care
[speaker001:] uh yeah but I don't know that it would be state approved
[speaker002:] that's true you can get somebody somebody willing to babysit but actual you know that's sometimes different on a done on a different scale I have even considered you know babysitting myself I have a teaching degree and uh thought well you know I could structure and then for one reason or other decided not to but I think if you take more than three children in well that was how it was this Virginia we've recently moved here to Texas but in Virginia I think if you take more than three children in on more than a several hours a day bases you have to be licensed
[speaker001:] I now I don't know what the current Texas laws are but I but I do know that the license doesn't seem to guarantee quality
[speaker002:] yeah a lot of times you might just need to go now and feel file for it just like a business you may not have to prove any type of qualification for it I don't
[speaker001:] uh now here I believe that child care meets by and large certain standards for uh balanced food if they provide food cleanliness and levels of supervision
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] levels being defined as number of of working adults for number of children
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] but
[speaker002:] that's uh kind of a minimum there that you're getting your covering basic care there and not all the extras that most people would like to see done with there children you know like the educational activities the supervised play and so forth
[speaker001:] yeah uh my wife is uh agnostic and I'm a backsliding Presbyterian
[speaker002:] I like that term
[speaker001:] and uh yet I really believe that this charismatic care or the charismatic belief when emphasized on care or semi charismatic I might say
[speaker002:] uh-huh uh-huh
[speaker001:] was quite good
[speaker002:] yeah it was a good influence for your daughter uh
[speaker001:] yes very
[speaker002:] well that's good
[speaker001:] and and uh the care is what I guess you should emphasize in the term child care instead of the child
[speaker002:] uh-huh yeah a little bit of love and and attention is what most of them need you know even if it's not a real educated program you can have good educational program and and
[speaker001:] and not have any care
[speaker002:] right and and that's not certainly what you want for your child or what you would give your child yourself and so
[speaker001:] and I'm not sure that really child care per se should instill any education per se you know what I'm saying
[speaker002:] well even educated play uh supervised play can teach without and I'm not saying talking about sitting down and teaching them math or or or something like that but just kind of promoting social skills and uh you know like my my child that she want be an only child for long but you know she was an only child or maybe your daughter not having yeah
[speaker001:] proper interface
[speaker002:] yeah just
[speaker001:] it's just just correct ness of of social skills if you will
[speaker002:] uh-huh right those basic things that uh they would that you know maybe a little bit of uh I don't know if manners is a is a good term or not but you know dealing with other through uh proper mannerisms and politeness and so forth you know that sort of thing you'd want your child to learn that from been experience with I mean someone else certainly you wouldn't want your child's day care person to yell at them and scream at them and say do this do that you know you'd want them to promote politeness and niceness you know the things that you would want any child to learn and usually that's done through example not you know an actual sit down learn situation so
[speaker001:] uh yeah uh it's a very broad issue
[speaker002:] uh-huh it is
[speaker001:] and you know it's a shame but most people doing child care earn almost no money they operate at you know um the owner of the child of a you know we're talking large child care facility now we're not talking somebody that does six kids in their home or or three or or whatever
[speaker002:] uh-huh uh-huh who really doesn't really put a lot of overhead whatever into it you mean somebody that has an actual establishment
[speaker001:] right
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] their employees earn almost nothing
[speaker002:] yeah I know I I did that for summer so I can I can vouch for that
[speaker001:] and and that's really a a shame too because do you and your husband both work
[speaker002:] no just he does I'm I'm here during the day with her
[speaker001:] well that's wonderful if if you can make it that way
[speaker002:] well we we decided to live with a uh uh lesser budget so that we have that that's more important to us you know as as uh there may come a time when I will be working again you know but right now that's what we've chosen and we wanted to have several we got her and we've got another on the way and
[speaker001:] well like I said
[speaker002:] may have another one soon after that so
[speaker001:] that's grand if if you can pull it off
[speaker002:] right
[speaker001:] but more and more we're being forced into a situation we as Americans are being forced into a situation where you've got to have

[speaker001:] okay have you painted something lately
[speaker002:] yes I have that room I showed you and then since then we painted the bedroom
[speaker001:] yeah oh yeah another bedroom
[speaker002:] yeah I showed you that one too didn't I the brown one yeah the one that looks like a fudgesicle
[speaker001:] hm yeah yeah yeah oh yeah oh heavens well I painted the outside of my house and one bathroom but I get I have that trouble with the the ceiling you know the uh what is that blow the blow ceiling
[speaker002:] yeah yeah oh yeah
[speaker001:] you know where you get around the edge
[speaker002:] well I've heard now I asked Janice somebody recently about how how you do that
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] oh uh when you paint the ceiling if you know when you got that textured stuff that they'd have special rollers
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] that are real soft and furry that you'd paint that with how you get the edge you just have to be real careful
[speaker001:] well how do you get the edge though the the straight edge oh I see
[speaker002:] we use a a two inch brush with uh on a slant
[speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh
[speaker002:] and that mostly does it even though you still make mistakes
[speaker001:] huh
[speaker002:] but
[speaker001:] well are you willing to paint the outside of your house too
[speaker002:] well yeah I think I'm going to do it this spring actually
[speaker001:] oh really
[speaker002:] there're there're six houses see the people that own the house they uh pay for anything like that we do as far as the the materials there's three houses on this street the same color of yellow out of six houses
[speaker001:] oh oh nice  yeah
[speaker002:] so I'm thinking I'm gonna change it to something you know the brick is multicolor with mostly earth tones I think I'm gonna put something like a brown on it
[speaker001:] uh-huh oh that'd be nice
[speaker002:] on the outside yeah and maybe a little deeper brown in the entry way or something something where it'll stand out a little
[speaker001:] hm or two tone or two tone
[speaker002:] what color'd you paint what yeah
[speaker001:] you know
[speaker002:] there's some columns that could be painted a different color too what color did you paint your house
[speaker001:] uh-huh well the white but I have a problem I can't get up high and we can't paint the chimney
[speaker002:] on the outside well you got to get one of those ladders
[speaker001:] well we have one of those ladders we're just not willing to get up that high
[speaker002:] oh yeah well a friend of mine that lives out in your neighborhood he's done his house and that's what he I was out there last weekend he's finished everything except the chimney
[speaker001:] well we did too we did it in the fall and it's just it's too high it's really scary but
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] and the only thing I would consider doing a professional is maybe doing that but is other than doing our own work I prefer it to a professional
[speaker002:] yeah yeah I know our house in New Mexico it was stucco but we had all this trim to paint and a lots of it
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] and we did basically seventy five percent of the house and then I was afraid to do the eaves way up high and stuff
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] so I hired this man to come in and do it young kid and he came with with his own rafter uh what do you call those things no those where you built like a rafter thing
[speaker001:] uh-huh the blowers oh oh oh oh I know what you're talking about um scaffolds that's it
[speaker002:] yeah scaffolds yeah he came and did it that way and I think he charged me a hundred dollars to finish up
[speaker001:] huh
[speaker002:] and literally I wouldn't have done it with the scaffolds because all the places that I had left for him were above huge humongous cactuses and if he fell he was dead and he knew that so
[speaker001:] it's yeah oh my so that was worth it getting a professional for that
[speaker002:] yeah plus he cleaned up my mess
[speaker001:] oh I think that's what we might have to do with the chimney but other than that it was pretty easy doing it ourself and caulking it and everything ourself
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] it wasn't too bad I mean you save
[speaker002:] how much did it cost you to for the paint for the outside
[speaker001:] shoot maybe a hundred and fifty
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] you know since it's a one story but we did uh like two heavy coats over it but in in in that way you know you're assured you did a good job than you are you know if you hire someone to do it
[speaker002:] yeah that yeah that friend of mine that painted his house out there in your neighborhood he went to oh Furrows I guess to buy his paint and yet he bought like seventeen gallons
[speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh uh-huh my word
[speaker002:] and anyway he when he checked out they only and and he was using his Furrows charge card too they only charged him for one gallon of paint like thirteen bucks or something
[speaker001:] um-hum um-hum oh my word
[speaker002:] and he had he had the bill he had already carried a ladder outside and and told her that and she wrung all that stuff up and made a mistake on the price of the paint
[speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh
[speaker002:] so she had to start all over again and he when he got outside he noticed his receipt was for like thirteen ninety nine or something
[speaker001:] uh-huh oh my word so that was really worth it painting his own house
[speaker002:] and he saw it I guess yeah it was like over two hundred dollars worth of free stuff
[speaker001:] oh my word oh my word well he really saved in that way but yeah I think we're gonna to do uh another bathroom
[speaker002:] yeah uh
[speaker001:] but uh I think I'll probably just do it in a roller I wanna do it about the same color and just be a little
[speaker002:] yeah rollers are so messy we never mess with them anymore
[speaker001:] oh I know but it's that it's the textured wall
[speaker002:] well still a paintbrush
[speaker001:] he can still

[speaker001:] well what do you know about Latin American policies
[speaker002:] well I think they're kind of ambivalent really uh I I just have a feeling that we've kind of talked out of both sides of mouths down there like we do in some other situations you know
[speaker001:] um-hum uh-huh
[speaker002:] we're we don't know half the time we don't know who to support
[speaker001:] are you uh relating this uh to the uh affair we've got going on in Haiti right now
[speaker002:] that and you know uh maybe it's maybe it's tough for a big powerful nation to deal with with uh countries like that that depend on us so much without you know just telling them running their country for them but
[speaker001:] right that that's just it
[speaker002:] it's got to be tough but I mean uh uh I'm you sure you still have to you know let them know how you feel
[speaker001:] right I guess my concern uh you know no matter which no matter which side we take we're gonna have supporters and we're gonna have uh antisupporters I guess for lack of better term and uh like you said they're such small countries that we're bound to upset somebody but we seem to be lacking the ability to take a stance
[speaker002:] yeah it it worries me that uh the economy of so many countries in in South America and Central America depend on something that that damages people like the you know like cocaine from Columbia and
[speaker001:] right right
[speaker002:] uh you know of course I I'm sure we have some enemies down there who would wouldn't care what happened to us but
[speaker001:] that's true
[speaker002:] but that is that's a tough deal and it I don't think that maybe I'm maybe it's you know I'm just reflecting how I feel about it but I have a feeling that we that we really don't understand basically the the the competing factions in a lot of those countries and I mean they've been hammering tongs for the last you know ten centuries
[speaker001:] sure
[speaker002:] and it's still going on and uh we we dabble in it just enough to make both sides angry at us I think sometimes
[speaker001:] that that's about the lump sum of it well um I was speaking with a a woman from uh uh I believe she was from the Honduras or Guatemala or somewhere in there no she was from El Salvador
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] and uh she was from a relatively wealthy family and when uh the Contras came into power of course with uh oh gosh darn it what's his face he's in in Florida jail now Marcos
[speaker002:] yeah yeah
[speaker001:] uh no he's Marcos is Philippines
[speaker002:] yeah um well I'm blank I can see his face I mean how could you forget his face
[speaker001:] well you know who I'm talking about yeah I I know it uh anyway when he came into power he basically just took everybody's property you know just assigned it to himself
[speaker002:] yeah kind of nationalized it
[speaker001:] right right and uh
[speaker002:] for himself
[speaker001:] so she's been a real strong supporter of the Sandinistas and has been trying to back the US government in that respect and I in that respect I have to agree that I think we're taking the right stance uh because they were a democracy
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] turned uh
[speaker002:] dictator yeah
[speaker001:] you know right basically a dictator fascist
[speaker002:] and it seems like those countries are so easily susceptible to that kind of thing it just
[speaker001:] sure
[speaker002:] you know unstable
[speaker001:] well what do you think of uh this uh US free trade agreement we're working on with Mexico
[speaker002:] well I think it's long overdue uh I just you know there's so much difference in in the economies of the two countries I I'm not you know I have a problem uh
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] with whether it's gonna work or not you know there's uh it seems like there's and I this may be unfair to Mexico but it seems like there's a lack of honesty in in in in foreign policy a lot of the times
[speaker001:] um-hum uh Mexico they're I I know they're trying they're really trying the Mexican government is trying and a lot of the larger Mexican businesses are trying to oh make themselves Americanized I guess
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] and uh which is great because that's what they basically need to do the big problem with the United States is we have our basic nine to five schedule you know and we don't have the Siesta and there's the cultural differences is what
[speaker002:] yeah yeah
[speaker001:] is what's kind of it's what's really hurting uh the Mexican the Mexican people because they've had their way of life and we've had our way of life and uh
[speaker002:] I think there's their version of the good old boy network going that uh you know has a lot

[speaker001:] How many children do you have now?
[speaker002:] Well I have five.
[speaker001:] You have five?
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] Well you do have a hard time finding time then don't you?
[speaker002:] Well, five are, I mean four of them are grown, they're in college or just out of college so I really have just a thirteen year old at home.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh. You sound so young.
[speaker002:] Well, I work at it [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] All right [very faint]. To have them, uh,
[speaker002:] I try to fool everybody [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] I think you're doing a good job.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] I just have one child.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] And, uh, I don't think, uh, well there's not much I can do about it. My, my wife and I are, u-, in our forties, you know, so, uh
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] but it's hard to raise one child without them thinking they're the, they're the pivot point of the universe.
[speaker002:] I think you are right because I was an only child too. And that's one reason I have so many [LAUGHTER] because I really, I enjoy the big family.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] And my thirteen year old is pretty separate from her brother and sisters and so she is sort of like an only child and it's the same type of thing, uh,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh. I have a younger brother like that. I'm in my forties, like I say and I have a brother in his twenties.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] And I was, I was the youngest.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] So I understand how that worked. And he was treated like he had five fathers or something.
[speaker002:] Right. That's exactly how it is, you know. She's got all these sisters and her brother to take care of her. When things don't go right, [LAUGHTER] she just calls one of them, you know.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] But, uh, yeah, it, it's a little bit difficult, though. I think it was easier when they all had each other and could entertain each other and I was home more. And,
[speaker001:] [Throat clearing] Did you all do a lot of organized things like, uh, Little League, uh, soccer?
[speaker002:] We, we really did not. My next oldest daughter that's in college in California is a world twirling champion. She twirls a baton and we did a lot of things together.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] She and I did a lot of things together and flew, we have flown all over the world for her to compete and to perform.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And that was a lot of fun. But that, that, I guess you could consider that organized. I mean, there is a competition all the time.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] We were very heavy into that. Other than that, they were pretty much, and maybe dancing school for a while or mainly school sports and things like that.
[speaker001:] You know, I think that's probably true. The, if you have one child or fewer, you get involved in organized events or
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] activities and if you have a large number of children or, then you don't.
[speaker002:] Well, you can't afford to.
[speaker001:] No, you ca-, and there's not enough time, uh
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] like my son is in, uh, Little League this year. He's ten. And they practice three times a week and they have a game and it's just, uh, if there were more than one child, I don't know, the-, there would be no way to do it.
[speaker002:] Right. That's right.
[speaker001:] You know, one parent go one direction and I'd have to go in the other and
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] we could only cover two at that.
[speaker002:] Yeah. Well I know I spent hours in the gym every day with my daughter and my little one also competed because really she had no choice. She had to go with me.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] So the three of us just spent a lot of time traveling and, and competing and, of course, the competing itself, really didn't matter what it was, it was making the friends and going all the places and it was a really neat experience, but it took our total time. I did not work, uh, when I did this. Now I do work full-time.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And it's just,
[speaker001:] [Throat clearing].
[speaker002:] my thirteen year old and myself and so we really have to keep it together to get just her activities in and still have time to spend with each other. So,
[speaker001:] I don't think, although i-, i-, I think a, a, more than one child, probably three children is probably the ideal to me but I'm not sure I could afford three. I most certainly couldn't educate three.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] I don't know how my, my parents did it.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] I mean, there were five of us and I don't recall, you know, wanting anything in particular. Uh, but I don't know how my father did it. He worked at a truck line and he just didn't make that kind of money with five children. But we did okay. We had a house and a home and, but now, my wife and I both work and we don't, I don't believe we have as much as my parents did and we only have one child.
[speaker002:] Really?
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Well, things cost a lot more. I don't know how it is in Georgia
[speaker001:] Huh.
[speaker002:] and I don't think our part of the country is particularly bad compared to some.
[speaker001:] Atlanta is horrible.
[speaker002:] Is it?
[speaker001:] Yes. Ha-, we have a lot of people moving here from Boston and, and different areas and from talking to them, they're shocked.
[speaker002:] Really?
[speaker001:] Wha-, and they, you know, the housing is so cheap
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] in comparison to Boston
[speaker002:] That's what I've heard.
[speaker001:] that they jump on it. They sell their house, they stash away a good bit of money and come down here and I work with a lot of them, they, they think they, they have really done something. Then when they get down here, they realize the cost of living is outrageous
[speaker002:] Huh.
[speaker001:] compared to, to where they came from.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] The housing is cheaper, but that's about it.
[speaker002:] I'm surprised to hear that. I've heard very positive things about Atlanta,

[speaker001:] So what do you think?
[speaker002:] Uh, the causes of crime? [Throat clearing]. Um, I think it was imbalance of power in the United States. It's causing the lower class to rebel. That's why there's su-, such high crime, and, uh, there's crime in, uh, young people because they don't have ro-, role models
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] see too much crime on T V and they think it's the way to go. I don't know. What do you think?
[speaker001:] What about, I agree with the upper and lower level, you know
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] because that's the lowest thing for themselves, plus there's nobody for them to look up to.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] But I also blame some of it on parents
[speaker002:] Okay.
[speaker001:] because parents aren't parents.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Because I remember even when I was growing up, I'm thirty-five [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] Okay.
[speaker001:] I remember when I was growing up, and I had friends, they used to do stuff like, you know, go over to a store and steal stuff. My mother warned us, it's like, I don't care what your friends do. If you do it, then that was it.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] And I knew that I would get in more trouble from my mother than from
[speaker002:] From anybody else.
[speaker001:] from anybody else. And I think
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] that's the basic, is they have no morals any more, so they don't care.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] So.
[speaker002:] Yeah, I think I can agree with that too.
[speaker001:] But now, as far as what they can do about it, I don't know.
[speaker002:] [Throat clearing].
[speaker001:] You can't make parents be parents [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] That's true. You got to kind of make people want to do the right thing.
[speaker001:] You know.
[speaker002:] I don't know how you do that.
[speaker001:] I guess if you gave the, gave them jobs, that's another problem with the United States, there's no jobs any more.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] But.
[speaker002:] Well, I've heard this one theory, that if, that if a kid commits a crime, that, uh, instead of the, prosecuting the kid, they prosecute the parent. Or both of them.
[speaker001:] That would work to a point,
[speaker002:] Now, to put the blame on the parent.
[speaker001:] Well, that'd work to a point because some kids are just bad anyway. I don't care what you do to them.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] You know, so I think it depends on how much trouble that kid has been in, you know.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Because a, a, a child can get into anything regar-,
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] I don't care how good you, they are.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Eventu-, at least one time, but now if this is a repeated thing, here with this child in juvenile, and or, to me, yeah, both of them.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Because that means she's still not doing what she's supposed to do. Because I just watched it on T V one night on one of them, um, Twenty Twenty, Forty-eight hours, one of them shows
[speaker002:] Uh-huh. Yeah.
[speaker001:] where this boy had been stealing cars. I don't know
[speaker002:] Um.
[speaker001:] if you seen this. it was a little, it was a little gang of them
[speaker002:] No, I didn't see it.
[speaker001:] stealing cars, you know,
[speaker002:] I understand.
[speaker001:] And then when they caught him, you know, his mother sitting there, now they going to take me away from you. That meaned she was warned.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] But see, by that, I think sometimes it's a little late.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] You know, but I'm sure there's something can be done.
[speaker002:] Yeah. What about with adults? Anything do any about adult crime.
[speaker001:] Yeah, start prosecuting they but really good instead of having a revolving door on the damn court system.
[speaker002:] Yeah. Well, for one, a major problem with that is the jails are overcrowded.
[speaker001:] Well, they should start with, the, if they would get rid of. Seems to me, I know there's a lot about court that people don't understand. There's more people in jail right now for child support, okay
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] then there are for people doing drugs.
[speaker002:] Um.
[speaker001:] You ought to take all them little misdemeanor people
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] let them go, let them go
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] you know, give them a fine, whatever, make them do civic duty whatever,
[speaker002:] Yeah, I mean seriously,
[speaker001:] Put them fools in there,
[speaker002:] they ought to put those people to work.
[speaker001:] I call them all fools, idiots, whatever.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Little rock stars, put all them in there.
[speaker002:] Um.
[speaker001:] You know, the murderers, the drug dealers, the user, put them all in jail
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] you know, and let all the normal people go
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] you know, because, okay, if you write a bad check, you go to jail, right.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Let them people go.
[speaker002:] Well.
[speaker001:] Not let them go and get out of it.
[speaker002:] Yeah, they, you still have to punish them.
[speaker001:] Let them go and pay their crime or their time doing something else
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] you know, like cleaning up the city or however they do their
[speaker002:] Yeah, that's,
[speaker001:] community time, you know, whatever that is [LAUGHTER]. But pu-, don't put them in jail because they're not hardened criminals.
[speaker002:] Yeah, and they're, they're still, they can provide for society, whereas some of them are so far gone that they can't do anything good for society.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh. So. I don't know, some people, boy, they got, I think the United States has got too many problems to be worrying about everybody else.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] Yeah, that's true.
[speaker001:] Now how they going to fix it, I don't know. I don't think there is a ready solution.
[speaker002:] No, I don't think so either. Uh.
[speaker001:] Because the economy is down, people, you know, the, the, the low man on the pole is getting more of the, I guess, the bulk of it.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] And he's got to work extra hard just to make ends meet.
[speaker002:] And they keep taking more money from us
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] and people are get, and they don't have any incentive to work if we're just going to take fifty percent of it.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] Might as well steal, then they don't have to pay taxes on it [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] That's it.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] So, you know, they, I, I, I know that's bad, but, you know, just like Texas now.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] They could have had a lottery. They don't want a lottery. Why not? I would rather pay for a lottery
[speaker002:] They'd have a,
[speaker001:] a dollar, two, three dollars, whatever I'm paying, you know
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] a week or whatever, and never see any of that money, than to have them take a portion of my paycheck.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Because, [LAUGHTER] you know, they take, and Uncle Sam takes his, the Social Security which probably won't be here when I get that old
[speaker002:] Um.
[speaker001:] you know. Because we're paying for Social Security they using now.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Who's going to pay for mine?
[speaker002:] I don't know [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] But it's, it's
[speaker002:] I'm not counting on it.
[speaker001:] No, you don't count on Social Security.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] But, it's, it's, that's what I'm saying, they need to do something else.
[speaker002:] Um.
[speaker001:] But. Crime is going to go up as long as the economy stays down.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] And it's going to get worse.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] That's just like last night they killed them people in that store. Where you at?
[speaker002:] I'm in Raleigh, North Carolina.
[speaker001:] Oh [LAUGHTER]. No wonder you don't know that.
[speaker002:] Well, where are you from?
[speaker001:] I'm in Dallas.
[speaker002:] Okay.
[speaker001:] But last night, [LAUGHTER] they killed, uh, uh, four people in a chain food.
[speaker002:] Oh, man.
[speaker001:] And killed them, well, it was two stores side by side.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] One was a store and one was like a, a fast food place, chicken or something, I don't know.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Anyway, they raped the women, beat them all up, including the women, I mean, they just beat them. Stuck them in the freezer and then shot them all.
[speaker002:] Ow.
[speaker001:] Why was, you know, why
[speaker002:] Why did they do in the freezer?
[speaker001:] you know, why didn't they just, if they was going to lock them, just lock them in the freezer, take the money, you know.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] They didn't have to kill them or rape them, or anything.
[speaker002:] Um. Um. That's awful. Yeah, we still get some in Raleigh. I mean, not
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] not too often real bad ones, [talking] but.
[speaker001:] It's just getting really ridiculous down here. I wish I could move somewhere where, this, you know, you got to like in the country.
[speaker002:] I don't think there's anywhere where there isn't going to be crimes.
[speaker001:] Well, I think, if it's, the town is smaller
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and everybody knows everybody
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] it's harder
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] to come in there and do something. Where is, and, and, and see that's another thing. Neighborhoods aren't neighborhoods any more.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] There's nobody is next door to you, you don't know your neighbors, and stuff like that.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] It's just, huh-uh, [LAUGHTER] you know, because I moved out some apartments before because they were loaded with drug dealers.
[speaker002:] Um.
[speaker001:] And you didn't even, and what the manager, the manager won't even do anything.
[speaker002:] He's probably a drug dealer himself [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] You never know.
[speaker001:] You don't. And so I moved, because I moved the day probably a week after one of the apartments blew up
[speaker002:] Wow.
[speaker001:] you know, and this is like across the street. This was a nice part of town
[speaker002:] Um.
[speaker001:] and there across the street one of the apartments blew up because they were having that, making that, um, crack stuff
[speaker002:] Um.
[speaker001:] and then, the other time I saw the cops break down somebody's apartment around the corner. I say, See, this is it.
[speaker002:] Time to go.
[speaker001:] That's it, and I moved.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] And, you know, now I live in like a fam-, a neighborhood in a town house, but it's nice. I don't, you know.
[speaker002:] Yeah. I'm kind of in the same, same kind of deal, town house in a neighborhood.
[speaker001:] But,
[speaker002:] It's pretty nice.
[speaker001:] I don't know how they can live, a neighborhood or apartment complex. That's what happen, that's what wrong,
[speaker002:] [Throat clearing].
[speaker001:] you know. I don't think, don't rent to them [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Or rent to them and evict them because they drug dealers. Put it on the lease.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] If you deal drugs, you can't live here.
[speaker002:] Yeah. Most of them are too scared to do anything about it.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh. That's it.
[speaker002:] Yeah. All right. Well listen, I got to go.
[speaker001:] All righty.
[speaker002:] Nice talking to you.
[speaker001:] And I thank you.
[speaker002:] All right.
[speaker001:] Bye-bye.
[speaker002:] Bye-bye.

[speaker001:] Do you want to tell me about your budgeting plan?
[speaker002:] Yeah, our budgeting plan includes me getting a job [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] We're, we're at the point now, I go-, I quit working about six months ago to start this house
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] and I'm out of cash and I'm not out of project yet.
[speaker001:] Oh, no.
[speaker002:] So, uh, I'm going to go back and do some consulting work. As far as budget's concerned, I'm, I'm fairly fortunate. Uh, we've, we're right now where if we don't buy anything extra, we can make it on what my wife makes. So, you know, the project's kind of halted until then. But as far as budgeting is concerned, you know, we have, uh, some pretty strict guidelines that we go for, {D you know, } we always put ten percent back, and that's a never touch.
[speaker001:] Uh, into savings.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Oh.
[speaker002:] Either savings or investment, one of the two, but we don't ever put it in a high risk. It's just always going to be there.
[speaker001:] Well, that's pretty good.
[speaker002:] And as far as the rest of it's concerned, we don't have any kind of, uh, what I would call extravagant expenses, you know, we, uh, we pretty much live on about eight, nine hundred a month, you know, just travel to and from work and clothing and food
[speaker001:] Boy, that's pretty good.
[speaker002:] and the rest of it, you know, we pile into the house. And, uh, you know, I'm fairly fortunate. I mean, our credit cards are out to the max right now because I'm
[speaker001:] Sure.
[speaker002:] a little behind on that, but, uh, we're still making the payments on them. It's just, when you, see in Texas you cannot borrow the money to build your own home
[speaker001:] Yeah,
[speaker002:] and do it yourself.
[speaker001:] it's, it's tough here too. You have to have the contractor sign with you.
[speaker002:] Right, exactly.
[speaker001:] But it's easy to find a contractor for a couple of hundred bucks who'll sign it and let you do it
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] , where I live, that is.
[speaker002:] And where I live, it, it's pretty scary, because Texas is one of those strange states where if you have a contractor sign on your note like that
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] and you screw up, you don't get it finished, the bank can eat the contractor.
[speaker001:] Oh, bad for him, huh.
[speaker002:] Yeah, bad for him. But, the homeowner can't be touched.
[speaker001:] Um.
[speaker002:] It's a homestead state.
[speaker001:] Is that right?
[speaker002:] Yeah, see right now if I quit paying any of my bills, the only thing they could do is cut off electricity. They can't take your land unless you don't pay your land taxes. Period.
[speaker001:] Wow.
[speaker002:] You know. They can take your car and your clothes and your, anything that's not the tools of your trade, but as far as, uh, you know [LAUGHTER], you're pretty much bullet proof in this state.
[speaker001:] Well, that's kind of handy.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] I just finished James Michener's TEXAS book.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Pretty interesting.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Texas has quite the history.
[speaker002:] Well, you know, we're, we're not ones to budget much, you know [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] We just going to spend it all.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] That's kind of what we do. We, uh, we're L D S and so we pay ten percent
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] tithing
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and then, you know, we put I guess it's like fifteen to twenty percent into a savings account.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] But that sometimes we use for emergency type things.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] But, uh, and my wife doesn't work. We're fortunate that way, that I make enough to do what we want to do.
[speaker002:] Yeah, yeah, we're pretty, pretty fortunate as far as the, uh, the budgeting is concerned, because, you know, we don't have any long term debt. You know, uh, we paid cash for car. Well, we bought the car on time, one of them, but we, you know, we since paid it off.
[speaker001:] Well that's pretty.
[speaker002:] The land is paid for cash, so we don't have to worry about that.
[speaker001:] That's a great position to be in.
[speaker002:] Well, it's fraught with other problems [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Is that right?
[speaker002:] Yeah, I'm not very motivated [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Oh [LAUGHTER]. What kind of consulting do you do?
[speaker002:] Uh, systems consulting. Computerization for construction firms.
[speaker001:] Is that right?
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] I'm into computers, too. I
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] I'm a E D P auditor.
[speaker002:] Oh.
[speaker001:] And.
[speaker002:] You into mainframes?
[speaker001:] Ye-, and P C s.
[speaker002:] An-, oh really?
[speaker001:] Yeah. I'm just brushing up on, well, C plus plus.
[speaker002:] Are you really?
[speaker001:] Uh-huh. And,
[speaker002:] I just got that a few days ago.
[speaker001:] Three oh?
[speaker002:] Oh, gees, don't get me to lying.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] I bought it at a fire sale.
[speaker001:] Oh.
[speaker002:] This guy's place burned down, and he had a bunch of computer stuff, and, you know, I bought it all. It was two hundred bucks for everything he had.
[speaker001:] You got a buy.
[speaker002:] Well, some of it wasn't worth anything, you know.
[speaker001:] Sure.
[speaker002:] You know, a lot of the, uh, diskettes were just totally unusable.
[speaker001:] Melted, or Just wet or,
[speaker002:] Well, yeah , or wet [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Okay.
[speaker002:] But I did get out of there with, uh, Vermont Views, which is a huge,

[speaker001:] -ing seems to be a, a topic that's going to probably take about a generation to, uh, catch on, it seems, or maybe a generation to two [LAUGHTER]. And we may have to do it out of necessity as far as moving that time schedule up. Uh, it does seem to be a lot of habits to break. I, uh, wasn't raised as a kid on it, but my kids are and so they, they tended to want to grab the aluminum cans when that was one of the first things to do, and we were doing all right there until, uh, the price dropped out [breathing] and they weren't worth anything anymore.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] And we [breathing], it took us, [lipsmack] almost a year to get a garbage sack full. We just don't drink that many. So as far as at home use, uh, we'll pick up a six pack every once in a while or for whatever occasion of Doctor Pepper or something and, and by the time we gathered up enough crushed cans to take it in, uh, at the time it was still, oh, about forty or fifty cents a pound, and we came out with about a dollar [LAUGHTER], it just really wasn't worth it.
[speaker002:] And a lot of hassle all year round and cans laying,
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] So, they, they realized, you know, well, of course to them a dollar was a dollar at four and five years old. That wasn't, uh, that was a big deal, but we decided it wasn't worth us keeping it and then, uh, T I started keeping up with, uh, cans there, so occasionally I'll bring whatever I've got laying around the car or the like and throw them in there. Least it gets back into the system, but, as far as a habit at the house, uh, I haven't started on anything other than just whatever the city wants to pick up. Have you all got the individual containers yet?
[speaker002:] [Lipsmack] No, I read in the paper this week where maybe, I don't know if it w-, was, I guess maybe this week someone may start getting them if the truck that picks them up is outfitted in time.
[speaker001:] Um.
[speaker002:] But, it, it should be starting, I would stay probably in the next month if, if everything goes that [breathing], I'm not sure all what we're going to have to do, whether we have three separate containers, I really don't understand that part on what they've told you to separate everything.
[speaker001:] Right. Yeah, it seemed like, uh, if, if I recall, it's been a long time. They're way behind schedule on that particular part of it. They were fine on the green, big green containers
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] but, uh, seems like they said they were just going to have a bin and all different types would go in there and then that they would sort it as
[speaker002:] Oh.
[speaker001:] as needed. It, it seemed that there was, at the time anyway, it, the thinking was that there was too much not getting sorted properly and that at, at the collection sites where everything's clearly labeled and people that happen to go to that kind of trouble to do it, happen to do it pretty well, uh, those are okay to have the general public doing the sorting. But when it comes down to just general purpose trash, that all the houses, uh, the success rate of getting it sorted properly seemed to be poor, so they felt that having one guy just sit there and run through it real quick was better than, than
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] having a household try it. But I, I don't know, that sounds like an awful lot of labor to sort the entire week's worth of trash for a house.
[speaker002:] Well, it would get messy, too.
[speaker001:] Yeah, yeah,
[speaker002:] I, I, I know other places when they recycle, they have to, like, wash out their glass jars and
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] whatnot. And, uh, which we're not in the habit of doing.
[speaker001:] That's true.
[speaker002:] I was brought up, uh, you know, long time ago, that they didn't even have cans. They had bottles and you'd return them to the
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] the grocery store and you'd get our money back and that, that was all well and good. They don't seem to still be doing that. If they could just eliminate the cans and use glass, but, I guess this day and age
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] they don't.
[speaker001:] [Lipsmack] They don't do that. We live next to a set of railroad tracks and it seemed to be a very popular thing for people driving by that highway there, by our tracks to throw the bottles at the tracks and try to crash, you know
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] break them, but, uh, they weren't that successful, so there were a lot of bottles to be returned and we just walk about a half a mile in each direction and gathered up enough to buy whatever we wanted
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] for the day [LAUGHTER] and,
[speaker002:] Yeah, and they, uh, p-, I, I think kids don't appreciate, maybe the value of money, that it's so little that they don't care, they can get more somewhere else.
[speaker001:] Yeah, just a little bit of begging will [LAUGHTER],
[speaker002:] Uh, for a good, right. They're, the nickels, the dimes or what, I [LAUGHTER] suppose it might be quarters, fifty cent pieces in these days, that they would get, they, the kids just don't seem to, to care that, that much about a small amount of money.
[speaker001:] Right. Well, I wonder,
[speaker002:] But, we, we did buy a can crusher and we are crushing cans and when we buy the soda when it's on sale for ninety-nine cents, so I would say
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] in the last three years, we've probably used a lot more cans than ever before. Uh, it was just easier [breathing] to do that than to open a large [breathing] liter bottle and then have it go flat.
[speaker001:] Right, yeah.
[speaker002:] [Lipsmack] So that's the main reason we're, we, sort of are into cans [LAUGHTER] at this point rather than the liter bottles [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Where do you take your cans?
[speaker002:] Well, as you say, it takes a while to build it up. Since we've had the crusher all summer, we [breathing], I guess we just now maybe have a bag full that we haven't ta-, oh, I think the kids, when we were on vacation, they said they did take them to a, a recycling place, probably at one of the li-,

[speaker001:] [Talking] [radio] Okay. How do you get your news mostly?
[speaker002:] [Breathing] Generally, I get most of my news from, uh, the radio. And then sometimes, uh, if I've got time, I'll be reading the front page of the newspaper
[speaker001:] Uh-huh, uh-huh.
[speaker002:] and just fall off on the articles that I like.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Uh, also, since my wife likes to watch T V, sometimes, uh, [LAUGHTER] ju-, having b-, just being there I get, uh, you know, I have to watch the news late at night
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] with T V.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh, uh-huh.
[speaker002:] How about you?
[speaker001:] Well, I can hardly wait for my morning paper to come.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] So that's the first thing I want is the headlines. It's really funny because because, uh, uh, my sister grabs the sports and I grab the headlines [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] But, uh, and then when five o'clock comes around I just want to get in the house and turn the T V on to watch the news.
[speaker002:] Um.
[speaker001:] It's really weird. Uh, I don't stay up late to watch late news because my eyes won't stay up that long. But, uh, I love to watch the five o'clock news and I, makes me angry when my paper boy's not there on time where I can read my paper [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Um.
[speaker001:] Uh, I do have my radio going most of the day though, so about every hour it breaks in and gives me news too, you know.
[speaker002:] Okay. Do you
[speaker001:] But,
[speaker002:] get wh-, like one of the talk stations, the news stations?
[speaker001:] No. Uh-huh. *listen; mistranscribed 'uh-uh' Jus-, I just have a channel that has music except for, like every hour, you know, say eight o'clock, nine
[speaker002:] Sure.
[speaker001:] o'clock, they come on for just a little bit of the news.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] But as far as the actual news, I get that from [clicking] [sounds like a call waiting] from the, can you hold on just for a second?
[speaker002:] Sure.
[speaker001:] Just a minute. [A answers the other line] [long pause]. Hello sir [clicking]. [A comes back to speaker B]
[speaker002:] Yes.
[speaker001:] Yes, I'm sorry to keep you waiting [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Okay [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Uh, I was calling from work so and that was a call waiting.
[speaker002:] Right. S-, it sounds like you, uh, like the news a lot more than I do. Me, I figure if it's something really important, somebody will tell me about it. But, uh, you know, I, the thing is if, if I catch the news all the time, it just makes me depressed because they tend to produce a lot of bad news. Or that's what
[speaker001:] Yeah, yo-,
[speaker002:] comes on first.
[speaker001:] That's true too.
[speaker002:] And, uh, you know, also late at night, you know, I don't wa-, like watching the news late at night but my wife is usually up then and so
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] I can't go to sleep with the T V on.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh, uh-huh.
[speaker002:] I, uh, but, you know, I, I wish I had, uh, more news on things like, that I consider long range. Things like science and medicine
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] uh, I'm more, I guess I'm more into science and science fiction and, uh, there's, you know, not that the news is science fiction, but, uh, uh, I'm more interested in that. Things like, uh, is NASA ready for another space shot. Uh, you know, how hot are they on the trail of a cure for such and such cancer
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] and, uh, uh, you know, a lot of the news isn't that interesting to me.
[speaker001:] Yeah. Well, you're right. There is a lot of it that's, that's just garbage, as far as I'm concerned, you know.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] But I just like the, more or less, the, the daily news, you know.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Just, uh, especially the weather. I like that [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Me, too.
[speaker001:] Although they're usually wrong [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] Yeah, Georgia here, they're usually wrong too. We have weird weather systems.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh. But, uh, like I say, as far as, as actually listening to the news, it's mostly T V, five o'clock to six thirty. Uh, that seems like a long time for news but that's how long it is.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] And, uh, seems like they have the local news and they have the world news.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] And then, uh, my morning paper. I can hardly wait for it to come.
[speaker002:] Yeah. I'm
[speaker001:] And, uh,
[speaker002:] you know, I, I just, uh, I would, I, I, I'm not a morning person so I would begrudge the time it takes me in the morning to catch my morning news.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] I get up just barely in time to get up, get ready and get off to work and then at work
[speaker001:] Oh.
[speaker002:] I have no time to read the news.
[speaker001:] Yeah, right. Once you get to work, I wouldn't either, huh-uh.
[speaker002:] No [very faint].
[speaker001:] But I've always been a morning person to get up, you know.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] An-, but I can't stay up late at night to watch the late news so [LAUGHTER]. I guess that's why I watch it at five o'clock [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] Yeah.
[speaker001:] But anyhow. Well, listen, I guess that's about it then.
[speaker002:] Okay.
[speaker001:] It's been nice talking to you Tony.
[speaker002:] Nice talking to you. I'll probably talk to you again. I had a friend who was in this and he said that he got calls from the same caller sometimes.
[speaker001:] Oh, really?
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Oh, well that hasn't happened to me yet. So, you never know, it might this time.
[speaker002:] That's right.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Okay, Tony.
[speaker002:] Take it easy.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh. Bye-bye.
[speaker002:] Bye-bye [clicking].
[speaker001:] [Clicking] [talking].

[speaker001:] what are your music music interests
[speaker002:] uh just about any kind of music except acid rock I I don't care for acid rock
[speaker001:] me too oh
[speaker002:] but uh I grew up with country and western but uh just about any kind of music I even like classical music
[speaker001:] yeah I did too and then yeah uh I'm pretty diversified too I I don't I don't like acid rock either I've I grew up in a small town so uh the only we only had one radio station so it was country music but then uh when I
[speaker002:] yeah yeah I grew up with Hank Snow and Lefty Frizzell and Hank Williams and all of those old country and western songs
[speaker001:] oh really you're older than I am oh
[speaker002:] but uh I did you happen to see last night the special on channel two with James Galway
[speaker001:] we don't get channel two my our cable doesn't I wish we got that one it was it well we don't get channel two
[speaker002:] oh that was fabulous when yeah when he played Danny Boy it just almost brought tears to your eyes because he can make that flute sing
[speaker001:] oh really
[speaker002:] yeah and uh it was tremendous
[speaker001:] now he he is a good uh actually I did I played flute for almost ten years and and uh so I I I I appreciate his too his his music he he he's from Ireland isn't he
[speaker002:] yeah yeah yeah uh-huh and it was uh mostly all Irish tunes they they had a band with him that uh had a harpist and another flute and then
[speaker001:] was yeah
[speaker002:] guy that played the bagpipes plus the uh tin whistle and a couple of violins and a drum and they
[speaker001:] yeah um-hum
[speaker002:] they played all the Irish jigs and so forth it was just fabulous
[speaker001:] yeah I he he is really good yeah I've I've I come from a musical background so uh um I've played flute flute flute and piano so I I I have uh
[speaker002:] yeah yeah
[speaker001:] a big appreciation for music
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] up to a point I I'm getting now to the age where I don't like the new stuff that's coming and much of the new stuff that's coming out husband says I'm getting old
[speaker002:] yeah yeah yeah I love uh I like I especially like instrumentals
[speaker001:] do you
[speaker002:] yeah I love to just lay back on the couch and and turn a good good instrumental on and just close my eyes and listen
[speaker001:] that yeah that that's nice to do that that is
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] I've got a I've got a two I've got a two year old who's now getting I'm getting well well versed in in kiddy music
[speaker002:] uh I'm I never played an instrument in my life I've always wanted to I've always wished my parents had forced me to learn the piano or something
[speaker001:] yeah yeah well I was one of the forced ones
[speaker002:] but uh but I I'd just love to be able to go to a party or something and sit down at the piano and bang out music
[speaker001:] oh I could never do that I was never that brave but um yeah
[speaker002:] hm hm  but I guess the closest I've ever come to participating in music is singing in the choir
[speaker001:] yeah oh yeah I've I've done I've done that at church too haven't done that in a long time
[speaker002:] yeah yeah
[speaker001:] so let's see what well what kind of music do you not like
[speaker002:] well like I say the acid rock I just do not care and I don't care for rap music either
[speaker001:] oh oh gosh that's not music that is not I don't know what that is but that's not music
[speaker002:] huh-uh no no if I can't understand the words I don't wanna listen to it
[speaker001:] well it's it's it's not it's not music it's just it's just uh uh beat talking in a beat it is just it's not exciting at all it doesn't it doesn't give you relaxation you can't dance to it you can't do anything to it yeah
[speaker002:] yeah yeah yeah right but I and I love uh I look at the orchestra music too like the Boston Pops or or anything
[speaker001:] did yeah have you ever been to the to to the Dallas Symphony have you is it are they good
[speaker002:] uh-huh yeah yeah they're good
[speaker001:] are they I I have never I've never been
[speaker002:] and uh we went and saw uh Les Les Les Miserables
[speaker001:] oh really
[speaker002:] oh the music in that was fantastic
[speaker001:] I've I've heard I've heard that that is a really
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] I heard that was hard to get tickets to
[speaker002:] yeah it it uh I can't remember how far in advance we reserved tickets but it was out you know out at the State Fair Music Hall
[speaker001:] probably cost yeah yeah that was a real
[speaker002:] and uh it was well worth the price yeah
[speaker001:] was it I I bet it was I bet I really bet it was is that the only uh musical do you go see musicals musicals a lot of musicals
[speaker002:] yeah just just ever so often you know a real a real good one like that one and
[speaker001:] yeah the that that would be that would be nice
[speaker002:] we went and saw uh I think it was uh Sugar Babies that was good that had good music in it
[speaker001:] was it I how how I can't I don't know what that's about
[speaker002:] uh that was the one with uh Mickey Rooney and uh oh what's that real oh not real old uh well she is old too dancer um I can't think of her name I got it right on the tip of my tongue and can't say it Helen something
[speaker001:] uh oh oh I think I know who you're talking oh I know who you're talking talking about she's got black hair
[speaker002:] uh real long legs and dark hair
[speaker001:] yeah okay I know who your talking about I can't think of her name either yeah that was that was that was I remember that being uh here a few years ago
[speaker002:] I can't think of it yeah but uh
[speaker001:] oh oh the last country music my my parents still uh really like country music and they they like um they like the Oak Ridge Boys and the Stadler Brothers and
[speaker002:] yeah oh yeah yeah
[speaker001:] and uh well my my my my parents
[speaker002:] Blackwoods
[speaker001:] yeah my my husband likes uh country music real well and he he likes some of the new groups like Shenandoah and uh yeah he really likes Shenandoah
[speaker002:] yeah Alabama
[speaker001:] yeah oh yeah Alabama well yeah yeah Alabama I think they're I think they're a bit too over exposed I get kind of tired get tired tired of every other song being Alabama on the radio
[speaker002:] yeah but I yeah either Alabama or Hank Williams Junior
[speaker001:] oh I I I I've never cared for Hank Williams Junior
[speaker002:] I never neither and I never have figured out how he won the entertainer of the year for about three or four years in a row
[speaker001:] I oh we we watch those award shows too we like we enjoyed watching the country and the Grammies and stuff but I just I just don't care for him I just never have I don't
[speaker002:] yes yeah I guess probably my favorite all time country and western song or singer is uh probably Eddy Arnold
[speaker001:] is is it okay uh I I I think I I know who that is uh-huh I think my parents have have uh some of his records
[speaker002:] hm
[speaker001:] yeah um
[speaker002:] but I got about I've got about a hundred and or had a uh some uh I sold some of them I had about a hundred and fifty old seventy eight RPM records of country and western songs
[speaker001:] wow
[speaker002:] Smiley Burnette I don't know if you're old enough to remember him
[speaker001:] I've heard the name
[speaker002:] he was uh played in the old western movies he was the sidekick of Gene Autry I believe or they I think his name when in the movie was Froggy
[speaker001:] huh
[speaker002:] had had a real raspy voice
[speaker001:] I've I've never seen a Gene Autry movie hm
[speaker002:] and uh some of those old ones of course Bob Wills and his Texas Playboys and Ernest Tubbs and
[speaker001:] no I never have yeah
[speaker002:] Red Foley and
[speaker001:] yeah those go back quite a ways
[speaker002:] yeah I took them up here to Collectors Rector Records and was able to get a little money for them
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] but uh my mother mother and dad used to own a restaurant and they had a they had a uh nickelodeon of course in the restaurant and when they would come and change the records
[speaker001:] it's hard to find oh yeah yeah
[speaker002:] the guys would and the guy would give her the old records
[speaker001:] well that would that's neat
[speaker002:] so uh that's where I learned about
[speaker001:] that would be great great if they weren't too worn out at the time
[speaker002:] yeah course there's not a whole lot of market for seventy eight RPM records
[speaker001:] is there not you you'd well you'd think there would be
[speaker002:] well the problem is that most of the record players now will not play them because you have to have that needle that uh particular kind of needle
[speaker001:] well that's true oh yeah
[speaker002:] and uh they just won't play on a modern day uh
[speaker001:] well that's a shame
[speaker002:] phonograph
[speaker001:] because I I we go to antique stores a lot and you see seventy eights
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] uh a lot at at the store at at at or in record stores you'd
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] think there'd be a market for I I'm sure you could find old players for them but that'd cost a fortune if you could find them that worked oh
[speaker002:] yeah yeah course they you know just don't have the quality of records nowadays either because you you you get that scratchy sound
[speaker001:] no um-hum well those things were big and thick weren't they
[speaker002:] yeah yeah
[speaker001:] now you could kill somebody with them and the one you buy go out and buy one now and they're just so thin and flimsy and
[speaker002:] yeah they warped real easy yeah
[speaker001:] they just they're not meant to last at all
[speaker002:] no
[speaker001:] no neither are tapes I I I buy we buy cassette tapes and machines will eat them you did so you're best bet any day anymore these days is a compact disk those things are practically indestructible
[speaker002:] yeah yeah yeah yes but I I guess you know the old country and western music you back then when I was a kid there wasn't that much TV so that's all you had to listen to was the radio
[speaker001:] oh no radio yeah
[speaker002:] and uh
[speaker001:] that that's just what just what you had back plus I think it was better back then to the TV there's too much TV now
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] and the radio is you know more exciting really than than television kept your imagination
[speaker002:] yeah yeah
[speaker001:] was it it it kept it it just didn't vegetate your mind like television does
[speaker002:] yeah I remember mother and dad always turned on the Grand Ole Opry
[speaker001:] oh yeah
[speaker002:] and
[speaker001:] was that on the radio every week
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] what what day what day was that on do you have you can you recall
[speaker002:] I I seems like it was on a Friday Friday or Saturday
[speaker001:] Friday

[speaker001:] Let's see, *something missing? A.1? my husband does the majority of the, um, the, uh, gardening, uh, taking care of the lawn and fertilizing, but, I, um, tend to all the, planting the annuals and, and the spraying
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and, um, taking care of them and maybe putting flowers in, you know, throughout that season, and later on maybe planting some mums and that kind of stuff and, um, any kind of decorating for the holidays, you know, I'll fix the porch up with pumpkins for Halloween and Christmas, but basically he does all the heavy stuff, and I do all the fun stuff [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] Well, we have it just opposite here. My wife works in, you know, at, at, at the T I, and she's, uh, sedentary all day long
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] so when she gets home she likes to mow.
[speaker001:] I see.
[speaker002:] And we have about ten acres, and she tries
[speaker001:] Wow.
[speaker002:] to mow about half of it [throat clearing].
[speaker001:] Wow. That's a, a big job.
[speaker002:] Well, yeah, it keeps, uh, well, it's doing real well, because when we got this place the, the dirt was just overgrazed
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] I mean, you know, it was bare dirt in a lot of places
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] and now, you know, since we've been mowing it, and, you know, of course we water a little bit, that's just too much to water all at once, but
[speaker001:] Oh, sure.
[speaker002:] but just by keeping it mowed and getting it mulched in, we've reclaimed a lot of it.
[speaker001:] Oh, I bet it's beautiful.
[speaker002:] Yeah, but we don't do much in the way of, uh, flowers. We have one little flower garden
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] that we, that we work with. The rest of it is just like wild flowers
[speaker001:] Wild flowers.
[speaker002:] and in the summertime we get the prettiest yellow flowers.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] They're about, oh, I guess, a third the size of your, palm of your hand
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] and
[speaker001:] Oh, that sounds lovely.
[speaker002:] course in the spring we get the bluebonnets and Indian paintbrush.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh. Oh, the wild flowers are beautiful. I think, um, I was thinking about throwing some for, in the back, just where the kids, um, just way in the back, behind the swing sets or, just have some wild flowers growing back there would be real pretty. Then you don't really have to have much maintenance involved.
[speaker002:] Yeah. Well, my wife and I really enjoy that sort of thing.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Uh, she enjoys mowing. I can't believe it.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh, I know a lot of
[speaker002:] I mean, I hate it [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] uh-huh, a lot of women do. Um, I've just never really, you know, maybe one of these days I'll have to get out there and mow, but, um, my husband takes it on, and I'll help rake up the grass, and, um, sometimes I'll help him edge, um, because, we don't have that much property, but we're on a corner lot, so there's a lot of edging to do
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] and, um, uh, that's what's nice about living more in the country, you don't have to worry about any of that [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] We don't even have any concrete
[speaker001:] Oh.
[speaker002:] or asphalt.
[speaker001:] Oh, that's nice, I, this is different for us because the other, in the past we've had homes that haven't had any side walks, and, um, it's been a little more country with the trees, and we do miss that. Um, if we had a chance to move, I think we'd move back to somewhere that was a little more countrified
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and a little less maintenance required
[speaker002:] Yeah
[speaker001:] as, as far as that goes.
[speaker002:] but, you know, we do everything together.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] This, this spring we got a thousand pine trees from the, actually this fall, I was talking about, two weeks ago
[speaker001:] Oh.
[speaker002:] we got a thousand pine trees from the, you know, soil and conservation people
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] and, uh, we're in the process of, of planting
[speaker001:] Wow that's,
[speaker002:] and we're building a stand, uh, just to the north of our house, and along the east, uh, property line
[speaker001:] Um.
[speaker002:] and I, uh, I think what we're, what we're trying to do is create sort of a wind break
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] because I tell you, in the winter time when that, when that wind comes out of the north, it just cuts right through you like you're not even there.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] So.
[speaker001:] Right. Well, I put,
[speaker002:] On the other side of the house, though, that's where we have all the, the delicate flowers and the mums, and we have morning glory
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] and we have trumpet vine and moon flowers, and we planted those out by the septic, so that, uh, they get plenty of water
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] and we get hummingbirds come in the
[speaker001:] Oh.
[speaker002:] spring, you know, all summer long.
[speaker001:] Oh, that sounds so pretty.
[speaker002:] And, well, when we leave the doors open, they fly in the house.
[speaker001:] Oh really [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Do they, don't do any damage, though, they just fly right back out, if you have the,
[speaker002:] Well, yeah, they don't like it in here because there's nothing to eat
[speaker001:] I see.
[speaker002:] and when you're as busy as one of those babies, you've got to eat most of the time.
[speaker001:] I see.
[speaker002:] And we got a few, you know, we put up some hummingbird feeders and some bird feeders.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] But, you know, for the most part, gardening for us is, well, we got asparagus, and, uh, we've got some plum trees and some apple trees and some tomato
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] and some blackberries and strawberries. Man, we get the best strawberries, that you just can't believe.
[speaker001:] Oh, oh, that sounds wonderful.
[speaker002:] We just got our last tomatoes.
[speaker001:] Oh, I love home gro-, grown tomatos.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] There's nothing like them. They just don't have the same ones in the supermarket [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Well, these are accidental tomatos.
[speaker001:] What does that mean, accidental tomatoes?
[speaker002:] Well, last year the birds came and ate a few of the tomatoes, of course you're going to lose some that way
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] and the seeds go right through them.
[speaker001:] I see.
[speaker002:] And wherever they pooped,

[speaker001:] do you see anything wrong with public school systems
[speaker002:] well yes I do um I think I'm concerned about the large number of children that each teacher is expected to to deal with in some quality way I think maybe we've given our teachers a almost impossible job
[speaker001:] I agree
[speaker002:] do you do you have children in the public school system
[speaker001:] yes and I taught for fourteen years
[speaker002:] is that right
[speaker001:] before we moved to Texas and the the one thing I see is changing is I was held accountable so much I had to document and create a paper chase for all of my students and instead of spending my time coming up with creative learning stations and things like that I was filling out all these forms for all the children
[speaker002:] you you were a bookkeeper oh
[speaker001:] everything had to be documented and I had file cabinets that weren't filled with neat stuff for kids it was filled with documentation
[speaker002:] oh no well um I'm I have three years toward a teaching degree and am trying to get headed back and and I'm just really in a dilemma if that's what you know I'd love
[speaker001:] yes
[speaker002:] to work with children and to teach them but I'm really having questions if if I can deal with that system and and have a good conscience about you know what I do I don't think
[speaker001:] me too
[speaker002:] I don't think it's the teachers I think it's the system but um
[speaker001:] I think so too they're so worried about lawsuits and the scores that children get on tests now
[speaker002:] right
[speaker001:] and teacher competency you know and it's not like the teacher can just get in there and do her best she's always worried whose looking over her shoulder and
[speaker002:] what child's gonna say something some parent's going to overreact to that's
[speaker001:] that's right I know
[speaker002:] that's true well it's it's hard on the children too I think you know because the um the teachers are overworked and just like a mommy that's overworked you're not at your best you know um and
[speaker001:] that's right do you have children in the system
[speaker002:] I have two I have uh in the system one is in ninth grade and one is in seventh grade and them um I'm home schooling my kindergartner this year
[speaker001:] ah
[speaker002:] we um live in a district that has open classrooms and I wasn't particularly comfortable with that for her
[speaker001:] yep are you in Plano yep I am too and I have one in ninth grade at Clark and one at Hendrick this year and he my ninth my uh sixth grader came from an open classroom at Matthews
[speaker002:] yes you too
[speaker001:] and the very first year I taught back in seventy three we had open classroom and it didn't work then and when we moved down here I was just appalled that they were still doing it here
[speaker002:] oh still at it well the explanation I was was given about you know they they seemed to admit that it wasn't working but they didn't have the money to restructure but looks to me that it wouldn't take really that much money to at least come up with I mean some kind of partitions you know
[speaker001:] partitions or just to face the children different directions or to do something
[speaker002:] just yeah
[speaker001:] I know last year my son had to eat in the classroom because there was no cafeteria at his school so he spent all day in this one large open area
[speaker002:] oh goodness oh
[speaker001:] so I didn't really care for that it seems like the schools in Michigan were much better than they are down here
[speaker002:] were they
[speaker001:] that was our last tour up in Michigan
[speaker002:] well we were from North um Carolina and of course North North Carolina has a terrible reputation as far as education I think they rank about forty ninth but our children got a very good education there they were in the magnet school program
[speaker001:] oh um-hum
[speaker002:] and a lot of their classes from the time they were about third grade they they changed classes several times during the day which has its pros and cons but a lot of their classes there were only eight or ten children in their classes
[speaker001:] oh wow
[speaker002:] and it was wonderful so you know I'm coming to to Plano thinking well gosh it's going to be really great it's ranked so much better
[speaker001:] yes yes that's right we heard wonderful things about it till we actually got in the system
[speaker002:] isn't that interesting I I I don't understand how they get this this reputation unless it's just that they spend a lot of money I don't know
[speaker001:] probably so on publicity and letting realtors know and key people how wonderful the schools are
[speaker002:] I guess so well my son is at Clark this year too so uh we're yes
[speaker001:] so as a freshman yep
[speaker002:] and uh he's pleased with his classes um I I don't guess I've been in the high school long enough to to know what to expect really you know how to judge it uh
[speaker001:] yeah my daughter seems to be having a good time she was absent with strep throat the last three days and I ran over and picked up her report card and she did very good so
[speaker002:] well that's good
[speaker001:] and she seems to be studying and has just about the right amount of homework I would expect
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] for a freshman to have she's not bogged down but yet she has some every night
[speaker002:] well Eric seems to have quite a few nights where he doesn't have any so that's interesting but he his grades I haven't seen them yet but supposedly they're good so
[speaker001:] yes you always hear how good now my son's at junior high and says that his grades are going to be wonderful but who knows what he's going to bring home so I don't
[speaker002:] that's right

[speaker001:] all right I I think our experience of camping is I I am the the passive member I get things ready and then I enjoy
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] uh because my my husband is a good camper and so they he manages the troops and they do the work and I have fun
[speaker002:] uh-huh well uh uh your you said your family was grown uh all grown up now how about when they were younger did you go camping take them camping
[speaker001:] that's when we camped the most when I thinks it's a marvelous activity for younger families
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] because uh I it seems like I would go through a period of time where I just uh was really overworked you know and and getting out into nature and relaxing
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] and having the family do a good share of the work you know and the part that I did was more fun than uh than labor because they did the the running and toting chores and I just helped cook and kind of organize you know
[speaker002:] yeah but even even cooking over an open fire is a little more fun isn't it
[speaker001:] it is isn't it it isn't have what kinds of things have you tried have you done uh uh uh the big pot cooking
[speaker002:] oh oh uh well it was really my ex who did the the uh uh the cooking back when we first started
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] and we found that the you know what was one one great handy things was this uh uh uh hamburger helper
[speaker001:] oh yeah
[speaker002:] because all you needed was a big frying pan you dumped everything in together
[speaker001:] big frying pan
[speaker002:] and it was enough for all five of us six of us
[speaker001:] oh that's interesting you know interesting enough uh the food part was kind of uh important thing in our camping uh when my oldest son
[speaker002:] six of us
[speaker001:] uh always at the beginning I did all the shopping and everything but the the neat breakthrough was when my oldest son Mark took his uh uh cooking merit badge in and and Mark was the kind of camper who ate beef Stroganoff and uh
[speaker002:] oh
[speaker001:] I mean you know he did it up really good and so uh after he took that merit badge he did all the shopping and preparing getting ready for it
[speaker002:] well that's great
[speaker001:] it was it was a marvelous experience because after that then all I had to do was uh follow the instructions you know and do and we did a lot of interesting kinds of things like I would take corn bread and uh cook a pan inside of a pan over a over a camp uh stove and it works real good it's like an oven
[speaker002:] uh-huh well
[speaker001:] just put uh put a thing on it
[speaker002:] cooking was our secondary interest I mean
[speaker001:] what did you like to do most
[speaker002:] well really just commune with nature
[speaker001:] that's neat isn't it
[speaker002:] we started out uh well we were living in Florida at the time and we early in life we discovered that six people all going on vacation gets to be very very expensive
[speaker001:] right I agree
[speaker002:] so my ex decided we're going to try camping and she went out one day on the spur of the moment and bought a tent and that's how we got started we did it for years and years uh
[speaker001:] huh well now in Florida is there is there times are there times of the year when it's very comfortable to camp or is it always kind of hot
[speaker002:] well yes uh yes and no I mean um yes in the winter time yes it's it gets kind of chilly or it can get chilly but uh there's really no time of the year that you can't go
[speaker001:] uh-huh oh is that true now now we're we're in Texas now and you're in Texas right
[speaker002:] uh because yes I'm in Dallas
[speaker001:] okay uh we have not camped a great deal here because uh a good share of the time in the Summer time it's too hot really to be very comfortable camping
[speaker002:] well it just depends on where you go for instance if you went down to the sea shore it would be wonderful a nice breeze blowing in from the water
[speaker001:] I guess yeah yeah we have done that but but we camped mostly when the kids were little we were in we were in New Jersey
[speaker002:] oh where abouts
[speaker001:] and we uh in uh Allendale and uh and uh Waldwick it's just about twelve miles south of the New York border
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] and we'd go up to the Adirondacks and camp and it was so you know pick your own uh blueberries and make blueberry pancakes for breakfast uh also go ahead
[speaker002:] oh yes yes yes I come I come from up in that area I'm a New Yorker myself
[speaker001:] oh are you where did you live
[speaker002:] a little town called Tuckaho over by White Plains
[speaker001:] oh oh yeah I know that I had a cousin who lived in White Plains that's a that's a neat area but it's a that is a particularly neat area for camping
[speaker002:] well that I wouldn't know I left there when I was quite young
[speaker001:] because yeah it is neat though because there are lots of lakes fairly near by you don't have to go very far
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] and uh and there's uh a lot of trees lot of mountains and lot of uh hiking sort of things and and we had uh collapsible boat which we uh clipper little clipper sail boat
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] and so we would sail and and uh did a lot of camping that way
[speaker002:] well uh me I outgrew uh sleeping bags and uh tents and I now have a motor home
[speaker001:] oh do you we've gotten out a time or two on a rented basis and it's fun too I think
[speaker002:] well I live in mine yes
[speaker001:] do you that's neat so you kind of uh uh an everyday camper
[speaker002:] uh well yes I consider myself what they call a full-timer
[speaker001:] a full time camper well now are you living alone now or
[speaker002:] yeah the yes well just me and my dog
[speaker001:] you and your dog huh hey that sounds great well we don't we don't camp quite as much as we used to but uh I still think it's a great way to spend a time with your family and
[speaker002:] yeah oh yes definitely
[speaker001:] and enjoy nature and uh kind of wipe out the stress of everyday life I'd always
[speaker002:] nothing like the fresh outdoors
[speaker001:] right I'd always come home just relaxed and uh comfortable and ready to go at it again so it was a neat activity good to talk to you tell me your name again
[speaker002:] Jack uh-huh are you uh from Dallas too Beth
[speaker001:] Jack all right yes yes we've been here we're we're in Plano but we've been here about uh eighteen years
[speaker002:] oh well that's where we that's where I am Plano
[speaker001:] are you are you how about that well we're all lots of people from TI up this way
[speaker002:] it uh-huh
[speaker001:] all right good to talk to you all right all right bye-bye
[speaker002:] nice talking to you too Beth bye

[speaker001:] Well, what do you know about Latin American policies?
[speaker002:] [Breathing] Well, I think they're kind of ambivalent, really. Uh, I just have a feeling that we've kind of talked out of both sides of mouths down there like we do in some other situations
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] you know.
[speaker001:] Huh.
[speaker002:] We, we don't know, half the time we don't know who to support.
[speaker001:] Are you, uh, relating this, uh, to the, uh, affair we've got going on in Haiti right now?
[speaker002:] That, and, you know, maybe it's, maybe it's tough for a big powerful nation to deal with, with, uh, countries like that that depend on us so much
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] without, you know, just telling them, running their country for them but,
[speaker001:] That, that's just it.
[speaker002:] It's got to be tough, but, I mean, uh, uh, you sure, you still have to, you know, let them know how you feel.
[speaker001:] Right, I guess my concern, [child talking] you know, no matter which, no matter which side we take [child talking], we're going to have supporters and we're going to have, uh, antisupporters, I guess, for lack of better term, and, uh, like you said, they're such small countries, that we're bound to upset somebody, but we seem to be lacking the ability to take a stance.
[speaker002:] Yeah, it worries me that, uh, the economy of so many countries in, in South America and Central America depend on something that damages people, like the, you know, like cocaine
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] from Columbia, and
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] uh, [breathing], you know, of course I, I'm sure we have some enemies down there who wouldn't care what happened to us, but
[speaker001:] That's true.
[speaker002:] but that is, that's a tough deal, and it, I don't think that, maybe I, maybe it's, you know, I'm reflecting how I feel about it, but I have a feeling that we, that we really don't understand basically the, the, the competing factions [LAUGHTER] in lot of those countries and
[speaker001:] Sure.
[speaker002:] I mean, they've been hammering, for the last, you know, ten centuries, and it's still going on, and, uh, we, we dabble in it just enough to make both sides angry at us some how,
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] some times,
[speaker001:] Yep, that's about the lump sum of it. Well, um, I was speaking with a, a woman from, I believe she was from the Honduras or Guatemala, or somewhere in there, no, she was from El Salvador
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] and, uh, she was from a relatively wealthy family, and when, uh, the Contras came into power, of course with, uh, oh, gosh darn, what's his face, he's in, in Florida jail now, Marcos
[speaker002:] Yeah, yeah.
[speaker001:] uh, no, he's, Marcos is Philippines,
[speaker002:] Yeah, um, well, I'm blank [LAUGHTER] on it.
[speaker001:] Well, you know who I'm talking about.
[speaker002:] I can see his face forget his name [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Yeah, I, I know it, uh, anyway, when he came into power, he basically just took everybody's property, you know, just assigned it to himself.
[speaker002:] Yeah, kind of nationalized it
[speaker001:] Right
[speaker002:] for himself,
[speaker001:] right, and, uh, so she's been a real strong supporter of the Sandinistas and has been trying to back the U S government in that respect, and in that respect I have to agree that I think we're taking the right stance
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] uh, because they were a democracy turned, uh
[speaker002:] Dictator,
[speaker001:] yeah, right
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] basically a dictator fascist.
[speaker002:] And it seems like those countries are so easily susceptible to that kind of thing, it just
[speaker001:] Sure.
[speaker002:] you know, unstable.
[speaker001:] Well, what do you think of, uh, this, uh, U S free trade agreement we're working on with Mexico?
[speaker002:] Well, I think it's long overdue
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] uh, I just, you know, there's so much difference in, in the economies of the two countries, I'm not, you know, I have a problem, uh, with whether it's going to work or not, you know, there's, uh, it seems like there's, and I, this may be unfair to Mexico, but it seems like there's a lack of honesty in, in foreign policy a lot of the times.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh, Mexico, they're, I know they're trying, they're really trying, the Mexican government is trying, and a lot of the larger Mexican businesses are trying to, [breathing] oh, make themselves Americanized, I guess
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] and, uh, which is great because that's what they basically need to do. The big problem with the United States is we have our basic nine to five schedule
[speaker002:] Yeah
[speaker001:] you know, and
[speaker002:] yeah.
[speaker001:] we don't have the Siesta, and there's, the cultural differences is what's, is what's kind of, it's what's really hurting, uh, the Mexican people, because they've had their way of life, and we've had our way of life, and, uh,
[speaker002:] I think their, their version of the good old boy network going that, uh, you know, has a lot,

[speaker001:] so how is the weather out there
[speaker002:] um it's really cold and it's supposedly for this time of the year it's unseasonably cold and they've gotten more snow than they've ever had
[speaker001:] oh really
[speaker002:] you have breaking records for coldness and all that kind of stuff how about you guys
[speaker001:] hum um it's just it's a it's about same the usual I think
[speaker002:] oh
[speaker001:] so nice for skiing and all that kind stuff it's good
[speaker002:] yeah well the weather
[speaker001:] hm
[speaker002:] let's see well the snow here is different from Utah's because I've lived in Utah for like ten years
[speaker001:] oh really what part
[speaker002:] and um Provo I was going to BYU yeah and um the snow is like really cold I mean it's like really humid so it seems uh wetter or something like that than
[speaker001:] oh really okay it's more humid in Utah than there or there
[speaker002:] uh-huh it's more humid in Iowa than Utah yeah
[speaker001:] okay right okay
[speaker002:] and it seems like when the winds blow it's real it goes right through you it's really different from Utah's weather I thought Utah was cold but I think Iowa is a lot colder
[speaker001:] um yeah see that's how it is in Texas too because when it's cold it's really cold
[speaker002:] yeah I don't think there's any mountains to stop the wind
[speaker001:] so what's that
[speaker002:] I don't think there's any mountains to stop the wind
[speaker001:] right yeah so the humidity I think is what does it
[speaker002:] yeah I think that's true
[speaker001:] because I I noticed when I got here too because like I'd when it would snow in Texas um I would just I mean we'd be freezing really cold and we'd have to get really warm and here you can almost not even wear a coat outside when it's snowing and you you don't
[speaker002:] uh-huh yeah it is true
[speaker001:] you don't feel super cold it was weird but so how long ago did you graduate or did you or
[speaker002:] um I graduated in nineteen eighty seven
[speaker001:] oh really
[speaker002:] yeah my husband got his doctorate at BYU so that's and so he just graduated this past year
[speaker001:] oh so you just barely moved away
[speaker002:] uh-huh yeah we really miss well we really miss Utah we miss the mountains
[speaker001:] huh do you like it out there you do yeah
[speaker002:] because it's like really flat here well not flat but hilly and but no big mountains or anything
[speaker001:] um-hum so you just moved away a year ago
[speaker002:] um in August
[speaker001:] wow just really recent
[speaker002:] yeah but um let's see
[speaker001:] hum
[speaker002:] let's see what else can I say about the weather um well today was warmer it was like forty five
[speaker001:] oh warm
[speaker002:] so what's the temperature up today over there
[speaker001:] oh man it's got to be like it's probably fifty fifty five maybe
[speaker002:] oh really
[speaker001:] maybe not that warm probably about uh um yeah it's not it's not that cold really
[speaker002:] and whenever I remembered the weather reports in Utah I never really remember them talking too much about wind chill but they talk about wind chill here all the time because
[speaker001:] yep yeah yeah that's a big deal in Texas too
[speaker002:] they said it could be like six degrees outside and like negative forty one wind chill
[speaker001:] um
[speaker002:] so that's something we're not used to
[speaker001:] yeah that's true that's makes a big difference huh hm
[speaker002:] so oh I
[speaker001:] so did you used to ski when you were out here
[speaker002:] what's that
[speaker001:] did you used to ski when you were in Utah
[speaker002:] oh I've only I've only skied in Utah once I've only skied once my whole life
[speaker001:] oh really
[speaker002:] but do you do a lot of skiing there
[speaker001:] well um not tons but I like to when I get a chance I've only been once so far but had the opportunity a couple times since then
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] just saving my money for Christmas things and that
[speaker002:] yeah so is this your first year in Utah
[speaker001:] um no this is actually my third year
[speaker002:] and you're going to school there oh at U of U or
[speaker001:] uh-huh yep no at BYU
[speaker002:] oh really oh
[speaker001:] yeah so but I'll be here a long time at this rate
[speaker002:] what's your major
[speaker001:] um it was nursing but I'm in the process of changing it right now
[speaker002:] uh-huh oh
[speaker001:] because it's really really competitive at BYU you have to have like a three seven to get in so
[speaker002:] yeah that's true
[speaker001:] it's really I'm gonna look into some other fields I'd like all the science classes and that I'm just not really enjoying too much so I think I better get into something that I can enjoy the process
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] of going to school so
[speaker002:] yeah that's that's a good idea
[speaker001:] did you graduate in a certain field or
[speaker002:] um education I got a double major
[speaker001:] in
[speaker002:] uh elementary and special ed uh-huh
[speaker001:] really that's what my sister did yeah you might know her her name's Lori Bird
[speaker002:] oh really
[speaker001:] maybe not I think she graduated around then too though eighty seven probably but she got her double
[speaker002:] yeah well I can't there are so many girls in all my classes I can't remember how many people
[speaker001:] yeah yeah because they just since um stopped that program I mean where you can where you can get it doubled pretty easily
[speaker002:] oh have they oh
[speaker001:] I mean it's hard it's really

[speaker001:] Okay, so what kind of luck you been having with buying and returning products?
[speaker002:] Uh, not too bad really. Uh, I had a razor that I got from Christmas that I just, I really didn't want it, but I got it anyway and, uh, it was a Braun and they were real good about taking it back. It wasn't a problem at all, so, uh, I was able to get that back pretty easily.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] But, uh, I don't know, I really haven't returned a whole lot lately. Have you?
[speaker001:] I haven't had to. It's, uh, the, every so often, I mean, I, I, I'm almost pushing it myself. Maybe I'll buy a shirt from G I Joe's and it shrinks too much and say, well, I should have known better, I mean, I bought it from G I Joe's
[speaker002:] Um.
[speaker001:] and it was probably made in China by slaves.
[speaker002:] Right [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] But, uh, they, uh, most of the time pretty careful shopping anyway, I get pretty good stuff.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] I think that, uh, aside from the fact all markets being internationalized
[speaker002:] Right like,
[speaker001:] and if you want to buy American [LAUGHTER], it takes real extra work to find.
[speaker002:] Exactly.
[speaker001:] It's probably
[speaker002:] I was reading,
[speaker001:] a Japanese or a Burmese company owning and hiring people in the U S [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Right, I was reading something in, uh, CONSUMER REPORTS tonight about that as a matter of fact. They were talking about cars, uh, the car issue just came out.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And about how, yeah, you'd like to buy an American car maybe but, uh, you know, the transmission may be made in Japan or whatever.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] Uh, like I've got an eighty-six Ford Ranger and, and I know for a fact that the transmission is made by Mitsubishi.
[speaker001:] Huh.
[speaker002:] You know, so it's like, what are you going to do, you know?
[speaker001:] Yeah, really.
[speaker002:] But, uh, that's the way it is. I don't know, I, I personally feel that, uh, uh, if the Japanese cars are better and Americans buy them, you know, that's the way it goes and, you know, people, man-, more than manufacturers should get a clue and, you know, they should start making quality products.
[speaker001:] Yeah, I think they're beginning to. The, the days of don't buy a car made on a Monday or a Friday are pretty much going away and,
[speaker002:] That's what I thought, too, until I saw the CONSUMER REPORTS issue.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Uh, they've got all the American, well, all the, all the cars rated, you know, and, uh, essentially, I h-, I don't see much of a trend. I mean, just like every other time that you look at it, the Honda Accords and the Civics are right up there. There's nothing wrong with them. Uh, and the same thing with most of the other Japanese cars. But then again you look at a Ford or especially a Chevy and they're pieces of junk.
[speaker001:] I know. Still at it, hey.
[speaker002:] Yeah, that's ninety, that's eighty-six through ninety-one.
[speaker001:] Wow.
[speaker002:] But, uh, I don't know, may-, maybe they're getting better, maybe they're starting to get a clue. Uh,
[speaker001:] Well, they got a three year lead time. It probably won't start really showing up until ninety-four or so [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Yeah, that's just it. Technology that comes in right now is, is probably not going to be imple-, implemented until, you know, quite a few years down the road. But, uh,
[speaker001:] The computer industry's where it's really dynamic especially for the consumer.
[speaker002:] Oh, yeah. Yeah, because technology is so, uh, you know, volatile and changing all the time.
[speaker001:] And can you
[speaker002:] Uh,
[speaker001:] think of any other industry where in software they, if the product is upgraded and a better version is put out, you'll get a free version in the mail s-,.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Or, uh, maybe I say, well, you know, you paid five hundred bucks for this program, so send us twenty and we'll give you a really great upgrade.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] Yeah.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] It, uh, th-, they keep up c-, with it pretty quickly and that's, that's a real good thing, I guess.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] Uh, I don't know.
[speaker001:] And the hardware, well, I mean, all the chips that make up the hardware are a commodity and the MacIntosh is about the only one that's going right
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] forcing I B M and the rest of the D O S world to follow along.
[speaker002:] Right, they're kind of the leaders right now, you know. I used to see all those commercials for Windows, you know, and you're like,
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] oh, gee, they're reselling a MacIntosh under a different name.
[speaker001:] Really, why don't they just say, almost a Mac for half the price.
[speaker002:] Yeah, you know.
[speaker001:] They'd sell more if they were honest.
[speaker002:] Exactly, almost is the key word, there, too, you know, because I, I really, I've used both and I really don't see an advantage of Windows at all.
[speaker001:] Yeah, it
[speaker002:] Uh,
[speaker001:] it's only an advantage for people who had to use pure D O S.
[speaker002:] Yeah, yeah that's true, too.
[speaker001:] base.
[speaker002:] But, uh, I don't know, I'm really, I've gotten a little bit out of the, the personal computer business just because I don't have one at home. I, I do use a Mac at work but, uh
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] uh, I really don't, don't do much with it at home but, uh,
[speaker001:] Apple's sort of making a s-, and they're ones were growling consumer, uh, need to worry about the Mac they're getting, like if you bought a power book straight off, a lot of them had to go back. They issued a recall because of improper shielding or possibly other problems with
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] floppy drive.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh. Yeah, you sound like you must, uh, work in the computer business.
[speaker001:] Yeah, I have one, I do desktop publishing at work and I have a machine at home and I belong to the user's group and I, I've been a Mac fanatic since they came out.
[speaker002:] Yeah? All right.
[speaker001:] But, uh, technically, I'm not actually in the industry. I don't work a computer company.
[speaker002:] No?
[speaker001:] I'm an abuser.
[speaker002:] Well, that's, that's all right.
[speaker001:] But it's sort of like surfing on the wave of future shock to
[speaker002:] Yeah, that's true.
[speaker001:] you know, keep up with the changes as they happen.
[speaker002:] Something that I find uncomfortable is, you know, you, you want to buy something, say you want to buy a personal computer and you got to think about what kind of memory you want to get and what kind of technology that you want to go for, you know, let, let's take the example, the modem for, you know,
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] Okay, w-, w-, what baud rate do you get? Well, you know, it used to be that you get a twelve hundred ba-,

[speaker001:] well do you have any pets
[speaker002:] yes I do I have a dog named Grisly who's a ten year old uh mixed breed between Golden Retriever Afghan Hound and Chow and I have a pair of box turtles
[speaker001:] oh oh I used to have box turtles um well years ago when I was growing up I
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] I really liked them um
[speaker002:] oh yeah I do too Lucky and Spot that's their names and they live in an aquarium without water in my family room and my dog thinks he's a mother turtle and always has his nose all around my turtle box
[speaker001:] oh
[speaker002:] so do you have any pets now
[speaker001:] yes um we have one dog a Bichon Frise um our friends in Houston bred the dogs I had never heard of them
[speaker002:] no I haven't either
[speaker001:] they're um they're all white and they're small and um and fluffy they don't shed I guess they are distantly related to a poodle but they're not very well known in this country and they're not um high strung or over bred
[speaker002:] oh and how big do they get
[speaker001:] um ours is uh on the small end and she's about ten pounds and they range from probably ten to sixteen pounds
[speaker002:] oh that's interesting
[speaker001:] and they love people um and kids and that was something we were looking for um our our love is Golden Retrievers and that's what we had intended to get in Houston but we had a small yard and a pool and knowing how they love to dig and love the water um and we thought that was kind of a tough climate
[speaker002:] yes the water yes yeah
[speaker001:] so uh we ended up getting this and uh my son would rather have a Golden Retriever though I think now he wants a
[speaker002:] oh
[speaker001:] a good size dog
[speaker002:] uh-huh well we've got a good size dog and we were considering getting a puppy a small house lap top dog for him because he likes other animals and for me because we used to have a miniature Dachshund and I miss having a little one
[speaker001:] oh yeah
[speaker002:] you know around the kind you have sounds very interesting though
[speaker001:] what they really are um they're really sweet dogs we've uh we thought probably our neighborhood in Houston had more of this breed than any other place just because of um the family that had them and and bred them they had five litters of puppies and and a lot of them stayed in the neighborhood because um
[speaker002:] oh uh-huh and how do you spell that breed
[speaker001:] they it's B I C H O N F R I S E
[speaker002:] F R I S E and how do you pronounce that
[speaker001:] Bichon Frise
[speaker002:] okay I'm writing it out phonetically
[speaker001:] yeah they're uh and they don't shed so they're they're good dogs for people with with allergies and they love people I mean they're
[speaker002:] yes do they bark a lot
[speaker001:] um no not really ours um ours barks more than uh than some because she spent a lot of time at our friends house we used to swap back and forth dogs that they have three dogs they had a Cockapoo and and two Bichons um
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] and she didn't bark at all until she spent time there and and um
[speaker002:] oh
[speaker001:] now it's funny she's she's a good watch dog I mean if there's
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] um she'll bark that way but she also talk a lot she
[speaker002:] yes
[speaker001:] um has a definite personality and so if we're leaving her she barks at us because she doesn't want to be left um
[speaker002:] oh does she ever mess in the house
[speaker001:] no no and they're um they're very smart dogs the circuses in Europe used to use them um for the acts they uh
[speaker002:] oh
[speaker001:] oh they'll dance on their hind legs each
[speaker002:] uh-huh oh gee
[speaker001:] um but they're very easy to train and
[speaker002:] uh-huh and about how much are they
[speaker001:] well they range I'd noticed up here they're a lot more expensive it seemed to me from the ads in the paper they run anywhere from two hundred to four hundred dollars I think which I thought was a lot
[speaker002:] and how about the and how about the person in uh Houston
[speaker001:] well she's no longer breeding them but um because her dogs um
[speaker002:] oh
[speaker001:] the the second one that she has was one of the puppies from the litter and uh the one male that she used had a tooth problem
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] and so she only bred that dog once because it had the tooth problem and did them strictly as um pets you know they weren't weren't show quality
[speaker002:] oh yes just pets yes that's what we'd rather have is just a pet instead of we used to show Saint Bernards when I was a little girl we did that every weekend
[speaker001:] right oh but yeah it takes a lot of time um
[speaker002:] yes and it's very expensive
[speaker001:] yeah um but she might have some contacts here I know originally I know that the dog's grandmother um was from Plano
[speaker002:] oh that's where I live
[speaker001:] oh that's where I live too
[speaker002:] yeah I'm at Coit and Legacy

[speaker001:] why don't you tell me about your choir
[speaker002:] oh okay well we uh are a group of uh musicians that just kind of have you know formed out of a desire to sing and many of the people in the group are very professional in the sense that they or just real talented I should say lot of them are former music teachers or currently teaching uh others have there's one gal that's in the uh Plano Community Orchestra
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] uh just you know different backgrounds it's been really kind of interesting
[speaker001:] great
[speaker002:] so um
[speaker001:] um I play the piano and uh I have a four year old who who has started to play the piano he does that uh musically listens and then he can play which is kind of interesting I think it's because he's always heard music in our home all the since he was a baby
[speaker002:] oh yeah um-hum
[speaker001:] uh my husband and my other son who's eleven just got through singing in a musical here in in the community at Music Man
[speaker002:] oh they did
[speaker001:] yeah and it was lots of fun
[speaker002:] how did how did they get involved in that
[speaker001:] um basically they read in the newspaper that there were open auditions it was the Plano Repertory Theatre
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] and so they went and tried out and my husband played Harold Hill from the Music Man and my son played one of the children in a band
[speaker002:] oh how fun
[speaker001:] so yeah it was really fun and uh my son plays the clarinet in his band at school and my daughter takes piano lessons too
[speaker002:] yeah um-hum
[speaker001:] but uh we just really like music it's a I I especially like it as an outlet when the TV goes off we get the TV off and and just have some nice quiet music
[speaker002:] um-hum um-hum um-hum yeah yeah that's nice you say have your four year old taking lessons already
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] and uh who do you have her or him take it from
[speaker001:] um I have him take from a friend of mine who teaches Suzuki
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] which is an auditory type learning experience you listen to the music and then learn to play it by learning by hearing the intervals and things like that
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] I teach uh like what is traditionally taught you know you look at the note on the page and you play what's on the piano but he can't learn like that he's a delayed child he's only about I guess he's about two and a half in his real understanding of things
[speaker002:] oh
[speaker001:] and uh so when my friend played something on the piano and he played it uh with his right hand we went wow we better have him do something do something you know educationally
[speaker002:] um-hum yeah yeah
[speaker001:] so that was really fun my husband and I love to go to the musicals downtown though
[speaker002:] well because my pardon me
[speaker001:] so my husband and I love to go to the musicals when they come into town into Dallas
[speaker002:] um-hum um-hum well I have an eight and a half year old daughter who's taken piano lessons since the started out at the age of just turning five because she wanted you know she just seemed to enjoy it so much and now my my four year old four and a half year old daughter is
[speaker001:] um
[speaker002:] is trying to imitate her older sister and wanting to play and she actually does some very nice chording just naturally she just
[speaker001:] oh I think that's great
[speaker002:] so I wasn't sure when to start her I didn't want to push her too early either but uh kind of had a mixed feelings about that scene
[speaker001:] that's really hard I think because especially if you start them and then they get pretty good and then they get close ten you know eleven or something and they go I don't want to do this anymore and you're like
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] God I really want you to do it you know so sometimes it's hard to to know exactly when but
[speaker002:] yeah yeah
[speaker001:] I don't know if she acts like she wants to or says she wants to maybe you could have her take some for a while and see how she likes it
[speaker002:] um-hum um-hum yeah I think she'd like to I just don't know if it's really knowing from what my daughter has gone through she's she learned a lot and it course it was something she had to keep relearning if she ever got away from it it was something easily forgotten so
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] um I don't know if she's any farther ahead than those kids who started when they were eight or or should I say seven I mean she's not a gifted pianist in the sense that she's gonna excel just naturally she does have to really work at it but um so yeah uh so I'm kind of you know just playing with it but at this point we're going to kind of wait I think just more for the financial reasons of it anyway but
[speaker001:] that's like me well it can get expensive that's for sure
[speaker002:] yeah yeah
[speaker001:] I my friend is is very generous in in letting us have my children uh do the Suzuki method without paying a lot out
[speaker002:] um-hum oh that's good
[speaker001:] yeah so it's been good for our family
[speaker002:] well as a piano teacher do you have any feelings from kids who come from a Suzuki method have you had any former Suzuki students
[speaker001:] I don't have any Suzuki students um something happening to me at Christmas time that that verified to me that I will always
[speaker002:] I was wondering how they

[speaker001:] an interesting topic
[speaker002:] yes the uh type of cars that I was uh uh I would probably be most interested in if I was going to buy another car now would probably be something like a uh Mazda Miata
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] uh the uh I'm very much uh a fan of sports cars
[speaker001:] ah boy you and my husband would have a whole lot in common
[speaker002:] the uh yeah the um
[speaker001:] uh
[speaker002:] though actually in some actually if I have I have avoided I've avoided buying a new car for quite some time I'd rather put my money into restoring my old cars I have a old Triumph TR Six
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] and uh uh so uh but if I was to buy one probably something like a Miata it's certainly it I wouldn't have to worry about it breaking down all the time yeah
[speaker001:] oh really what's the how old is your car
[speaker002:] uh well I have a I have a nineteen eighty five uh eighty five CRX
[speaker001:] oh
[speaker002:] uh which is you know it's it still works fine but it's it's actually it's kind of annoying cause I've got no reason to to replace it but uh
[speaker001:] yeah right  oh yeah so what do the Miatas run
[speaker002:] oh those are they're about uh uh thirteen to fourteen thousand dollars and you know a bit more if you add some some options and so on but
[speaker001:] well that's not too bad
[speaker002:] the uh yeah that's a pretty good price and they're they're they're they're so so nice to drive uh
[speaker001:] yeah really I've never driven one
[speaker002:] uh it's it's it's nice they're uh I've been down to a dealer and driven them and I've also driven one at a something Mazda put on where uh they went to uh auto cross events across the country uh which is where you race in uh you you race on in a parking lot or something like that with a bunch of uh cones to see who can get through them fastest
[speaker001:] oh
[speaker002:] uh yeah about a minute or so and uh very twisty stuff and oh it handles so nicely
[speaker001:] uh-huh and so you've done this oh okay oh
[speaker002:] yeah yeah it was just it it it's just so smooth and yeah nice car
[speaker001:] really
[speaker002:] what are you interested in
[speaker001:] whatever my husband buys
[speaker002:] you don't you you don't get involved in uh car decisions
[speaker001:] oh not too much no we um we just got rid of a full conversion van that that I I it that wasn't me that was my husband he wanted the van and he wanted to drive that van and travel and wanted everything in there T V you know the whole bit but I never drove it so it just it wasn't me you know
[speaker002:] yeah I can understand well would you want if you had to decide what would you want
[speaker001:] and then oh I'd want a minivan because I'm with the kids all the time yeah yeah and
[speaker002:] okay yeah they're nice oh yeah that's perfect for that it's not it it's small enough that it's easy to drive
[speaker001:] yeah you pick up I pick up my little one from preschool and the whole parking lot's full of minivans but you know I I drive a little Subaru
[speaker002:] holds a lot yeah yeah
[speaker001:] and uh we I love that uh we were going to trade that in for the van but I just wanted to hold on to that because I just really enjoy that
[speaker002:] right
[speaker001:] and um that's really all I needed was for something just to go here and there and back
[speaker002:] yeah uh minivans are nice I have a friend who has a minivan and uh I've driven it a few times and uh it's nice it's nice of course
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] you know my family my family has always had cars like that uh in that yeah my father has had a had a always had a VW bus every since uh nineteen about nineteen sixty or so
[speaker001:] oh really oh really
[speaker002:] uh I they he he uses he often has to transport plants or uh things like that cause he's he goes to orchid shows and and you know fills fills the car with plants and so on or
[speaker001:] yeah yeah it's amazing what a minivan can do we went camping this past weekend with some friends that had a minivan and pulled uh um the little trailer behind the pop up trailer and uh it's so it's really amazing how much a minivan can can you know what it can do
[speaker002:] um-hum um-hum um-hum yeah and they're not that expensive
[speaker001:] no they're not
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] they probably we probably
[speaker002:] mainly because everyone makes them you know you can take your choice of how expensive you want it to be
[speaker001:] yeah yeah and we we do a lot of um driving we do a lot of traveling by car and so that's the only time that the that the uh conversion van came in handy but it really didn't cause our our kids are still little
[speaker002:] hum um-hum
[speaker001:] so um that was the only time we really needed it other than that it got terrible mileage and
[speaker002:] yeah yeah Minivans do do pretty well
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] you know twenty twenty twenty five miles per gallon or more
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] some of them probably even do thirty
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] the uh yeah there there's some other cars I'd like but I uh uh I would never be willing to spend quite that much money for uh like uh uh I'll drool over them

[speaker001:] okay what do you think of the public school system first off do you have children that are in it
[speaker002:] I have children that are in the Plano Public School systems and I am a substitute teacher at this point looking for a full-time job in the public school system so
[speaker001:] oh okay well then you should be a good one to know because I my children are grown now I now have grandchildren in the school system so uh
[speaker002:] oh
[speaker001:] I don't have first had experience right now with it so what do you think
[speaker002:] uh-huh uh-huh well I think the public school systems are doing a good job I think they have a long way to go yet but I think that um they are starting to head towards more technology and getting the kids computer literate earlier you know my kindergartners were on the were on the computers and I think that with the way the world is today that's got to be done and I think that uh the schools now are starting to teach thinking strategies more than just giving them you know skills you know you don't just add one plus one you figure out why you're adding it and what you're going to do with it once you've got it together and I think that that's something that is drastically needed because most of these kids cannot think they literally cannot come in out of the rain
[speaker001:] right that's right
[speaker002:] you you know and that just I don't care how intelligent you are if you be cannot make it function for you that intelligence is being wasted and uh this has been one of my pet peeves and probably why I went into education
[speaker001:] correct
[speaker002:] so I think you know they're they're trying to head into into teaching them to think and use the education that they have and I think that's very very important
[speaker001:] yes it is I I agree with you that they're starting children so much earlier on things because our grandchildren we have a uh fourth grader and then we have one that's in kindergartner and and I know the fourth grader is doing stuff that our children was doing were doing in the fifth and sixth grade
[speaker002:] oh yeah
[speaker001:] you know it's amazing to me and stuff that I didn't do until I was in junior high which of course shows my age
[speaker002:] oh yeah uh I tutor a girl that's in eighth grade and her pre-algebra book is higher then some of my algebra two when I was in high school and it's like oh I going to take this home and study it before I can help you
[speaker001:] that's kind of scary right
[speaker002:] you know so they're really they're really moving them along but yet at the same time you know they are stopping and making them use it and function with it like they would need to do in everyday life and that's what you know a lot of the things that we did in school I've never used and never will use
[speaker001:] now yes
[speaker002:] and uh so I think that it's it's appropriate to teach them you know why they are learning this not just because the teacher says you have to learn this
[speaker001:] correct are you finding that uh since you're doing substitute that you're wanting to do full-time um I have a friend that's a teacher that one of her complaints is she can't teach because she's so busy filling out all the forms
[speaker002:] yes that's a
[speaker001:] and and do are you do you find that
[speaker002:] well filling out the forms and also all of these uh statewide and national wide testing things so that they compare and say you know you can as far as I'm concerned
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] you can make a survey or test scores say anything you want it to say
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] and it's just a matter of how you're going to interpret it and you waste so much time quote unquote teaching to the test to make sure that your scores are the very best they're possibly going to be you know that
[speaker001:] be um-hum
[speaker002:] I think it's uh I think it's crazy personally you know the first the whole first nine weeks of school is is used as a review but more than a review they're getting those kids primed and ready for the tests that are coming up in October so that you know your school district shines throughout the United States
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] and I think that's totally useless I think you know there's a place and a time for all of the tests and comparisons but I think they've taken it to the extent now that it's just ridiculous it's like bragging on your grandchildren
[speaker001:] right
[speaker002:] you know and everybody's kids are the best kids that have ever hit this earth and nobody else's children are going to ever live up to those and that's great but that's what they're doing with the school systems and they're wasting too much time on that I think
[speaker001:] uh-huh well I I know that this again this this friend uh is in the Plano School District and she teaches uh
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] uh it must uh emotionally disturbed children and she says she has some six graders in there that are reading on the level of the second grade
[speaker002:] uh-huh yes
[speaker001:] and she says she's getting very frustrated and very depressed because the school is pressuring her to pass them on even though they're not ready but because evidently you receive a certain amount of money when they're passed on or something I didn't quite understand it
[speaker002:] yeah there's not yeah the bottom line line is always money
[speaker001:] and uh

[speaker001:] Hello.
[speaker002:] Hello, this is Jim in Dallas. Uh, how you doing?
[speaker001:] Fine. I'm Callie in Garland.
[speaker002:] Oh, you're right here, okay
[speaker001:] Yes.
[speaker002:] yeah, I'm actually working tonight, I just, uh, called and came in.
[speaker001:] Oh are you.
[speaker002:] Do you work at T I?
[speaker001:] Yeah, you?
[speaker002:] Yeah, I just got a little booklet, uh, this not what we're supposed to talk about, just got a little booklet in the mail with the gifts, and I thought, I better make some calls.
[speaker001:] I know, I know, they.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] Yeah. Well, I haven't had a chance, I haven't got a chance to look at them yet.
[speaker001:] It was a lot nicer than I expected.
[speaker002:] My daughter, uh, got a few calls at home. She talked to some student in, I guess they give them to computer students, too, in, uh, Virginia, something like that. She's talked to two students.
[speaker001:] I've talked to, I don't think they were students, one, I think, worked at a university, university
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] um, and the furthest away I've talked to someone has been New York.
[speaker002:] Oh, yeah, great. Uh, we're supposed to talk about the elderly now, I guess, uh,
[speaker001:] Yes, we are.
[speaker002:] Do you have anybody that you, uh, are close to that decision on, or anything, or, I've thought about it for myself and all, and my wi-, my wife's mother is in a retirement home. She's not in a nursing home. Uh.
[speaker001:] Oh, well that's a, did you push the button?
[speaker002:] Yeah, did I, didn't we push?
[speaker001:] Did we,
[speaker002:] Let me, [beep] I'll hit it again just in case.
[speaker001:] Okay, just in case [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] I did it as she said, yes. But, uh, she's
[speaker001:] Now, what,
[speaker002:] she's down in San Antonio
[speaker001:] Oh.
[speaker002:] and it's, it's a, uh, it's a brand new one. It's a Catholic, uh, retirement home for nuns. It's at, uh
[speaker001:] Oh.
[speaker002:] Trinity, uh, no, let me see, Trinity, I keep calling it Trini-, it's not Trinity, I'll think of, Incarnate Word, and they have a retirement home for the nuns
[speaker001:] Well, isn't that neat.
[speaker002:] and they take some lay people.
[speaker001:] Isn't that neat.
[speaker002:] Yeah, and that one's really super. Now I, I know what they're talking about on regular retirement. Yeah, there's not too many, they do have a wing where the people who are really sick, you know
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] have nurses.
[speaker001:] Oh, that's good.
[speaker002:] And then they have other wings that we visited, uh, that are very nice. I mean it's just super.
[speaker001:] That's neat. Just supervised more or less than anything and security, I guess.
[speaker002:] Oh, yeah, they, they, they have, uh, like, uh, a guard with locks. We've been there once at night at Christmas. She just went in last year.
[speaker001:] Oh.
[speaker002:] She drives and everything, she, she, she's perfectly healthy.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Uh,
[speaker001:] What made you all decide to put her, or what made her decide to go?
[speaker002:] Well, her husband died. They were in the military together, and she just did not want to take care of the house
[speaker001:] Right ,
[speaker002:] and she visited the place, and then fell in love with it, and decided to just shun all responsibilities of any kind,
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] so to speak, and so
[speaker001:] Well, that's good.
[speaker002:] she's happy as, as heck, and they serve meals, of course.
[speaker001:] That's great.
[speaker002:] They have clubs and a swimming pool, so that's nice. Now I, I know the ones where you're really ill, we visited a long time ago when
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] she had a grandmother that was in one. And they were all more or less hospitalized type
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] you know, really, really sick.
[speaker001:] Shut-ins and,
[speaker002:] It's a tough question.
[speaker001:] Yeah, it really is. I worked in one as a teenager. I volunteered,
[speaker002:] Oh, you got more experience than I do then on it.
[speaker001:] Well, it was really, it was really sad, heartbreaking, I guess.
[speaker002:] Yeah, yeah.
[speaker001:] And, uh, I just, oh, I just felt for those people, especially the ones that never got visited.
[speaker002:] Oh, that would be awful.
[speaker001:] That just bothered me.
[speaker002:] I never thought about that, you know.
[speaker001:] That just bothered me so much, especially, you know, at my age, I was probably about fourteen.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] And that really made a bad impression on me [LAUGHTER]. I always thought, not really bad of them, I mean, because they are, most of them I believe are probably pretty good for the people, but, I don't know. It's just a, it would be a tough, tough decision.
[speaker002:] Yeah, I think that, uh, hopefully we as a country are learning a little more about it, and they're getting nicer.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] I've seen on T V where they take animals and young children, in fact my daughter is one. My wife took my daughters one year when they were getting some points for school, took them to an elderly home, and boy that really pumps them up.
[speaker001:] Helps, yeah.
[speaker002:] That is very nice to see young people. I think that's one of the sad things, is when you're in an older home.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh, uh-huh.
[speaker002:] If you just have people your own age, you never get a chance to see kids or anything
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] or animals or anything, you know
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] you can't take care of them, kind of obvious you can't take care of children or animals
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] in a nursing home, but it's nice to have them visit and everything.
[speaker001:] Yeah, and get that youth back.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] You know, sometimes that even helps them, just being around young people to, because some of them are so, um, just stationary
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] I mean, they'll get in a wheelchair or they'll just sit in a chair and, and, until you come along and really try and pump them up, they're just stationary, and I feel like, gosh, that's all they do all day long. So I do, love to see young kids go and, and men take the pets and everything. I think that's a real, real neat idea.
[speaker002:] Yeah, I think you do get more by stimul-, by stimulation. My, in fact, my mother in law just visited. She's just about seventy-five. Again, perfectly fine.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] But, one, and, and she visited us here in, in Dallas. When she went back, every time she goes back to, uh, San Antonio, my wife has two sisters there, too, she said she's much better, she's much more alive and, and, uh, active when she's been on a visit
[speaker001:] That's,
[speaker002:] with somebody else, you know
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] and, and our routine has obviously hectic with teenagers and everything
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] and she's much, and so the stimulation part is really important. I think, like any animal, anything
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] you just lay around, uh, that's the fastest way to die, I think, you know.
[speaker001:] Stagnant [LAUGHTER]. Yeah, that's exactly right. I think they're really neat. Um, of course I've seen those reports on T V, the horrible ones
[speaker002:] Oh, yeah.
[speaker001:] and that scares me.
[speaker002:] I'm afraid I'm a T V flipper. Anything bad, I like, I like to,
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] flip, [LAUGHTER] I flip it off. But it's sad, it's sad, yeah.
[speaker001:] It's sad to think that we would do that to people, and you know, I've seen them on T V with, uh, bed sores, and
[speaker002:] Oh, yeah.
[speaker001:] oh, they just stay in the same clothes or the same sheets and not do laundry. And I just think, how can you do that? These people have given so much of their lives, you know, to, to America
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] you know, whatever, and here is how we treat them. Just put them in a home and leave them.
[speaker002:] Right. When I was, uh, younger, we, I lived in the East, I'm from the East really, and it seemed like there were several people that I knew that had their, uh, parents, {A I guess they would be, but well in their seve-, } living with them.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh [NOISE] [water sound].
[speaker002:] And one of them was even a woman who was fairly old, and I guess she, [NOISE] [water sound] she had her own separate room. And I think, whether it's more a custom up there, or maybe because I was younger
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] and it's just not a custom anymore to have, uh, you know, the grandparents live with you anymore. I guess that, uh
[speaker001:] I think,
[speaker002:] well, we aren't getting away from that, which is not right.
[speaker001:] Right. I think it's neat. I think, uh, you learn a lot from them
[speaker002:] Oh, yeah.
[speaker001:] from all their experiences, and, and that's one of my favorite things to do is sit around and listen to their stories.
[speaker002:] Oh, right, right.
[speaker001:] I think that's neat, because they really have a lot of good i-, insights
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] that my fa-, my husband's father is really old. He, he had him late in life, and he's, he'll be eighty this year.
[speaker002:] Oh.
[speaker001:] And I just, uh, he lives with different, you know, people in the family. He'll switch from time to time. I just,
[speaker002:] Well, that's nice in a lot of ways.
[speaker001:] Yeah, I just couldn't imagine locking, not locking him up, but putting him in a home and just,
[speaker002:] Bet you were surprised that you said that by mistake. Yeah, right,
[speaker001:] Lock him up.
[speaker002:] That's what I think about it for me, I think, Well, my kids better not do that to me.
[speaker001:] I know, I know.
[speaker002:] I don't want that, you know. So I, I think of it, Well, how would I want to be treated
[speaker001:] Right, exactly.
[speaker002:] rather than, well, it's easy to say, Oh, yeah, let's put these old folks in a home, but when I think I don't want to do that, you know. I don't want to be
[speaker001:] That's right.
[speaker002:] I'd want to have my little home. I always threaten my daughters, I say, Well, I'm going to build a little house behind yours,
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] and I'll take care of your lawn, he says, but I'm not [LAUGHTER] going to one of those places.
[speaker001:] Oh, you're going to put me away.
[speaker002:] Right, yeah.
[speaker001:] That's what my mother, she always, You're going to lock me up one day, aren't you.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] I can tell, you're going to lock me up.
[speaker002:] That's what we, that's the way we call it, which is really wrong.
[speaker001:] I know.
[speaker002:] But my wife's mother, and the one, she's in San Ant-, it's everything but. The opposite of what you've seen. I mean
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] it's a little hotel, you might say.
[speaker001:] That's great.
[speaker002:] Again, a swimming pool, and grounds, and she has enough room. She has two bedrooms, and a, and a
[speaker001:] Gosh.
[speaker002:] separate living area. They don't have kitchens or anything
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] but they have little, it's like uh, on each floor they have a little kitchen area
[speaker001:] Yes.
[speaker002:] where you can go down and have a
[speaker001:] Prepare your,
[speaker002:] make a meal, you know.
[speaker001:] Well, that's great. Now can she leave, um, on a day by herself?
[speaker002:] Oh, yeah, it's, it's, it's nothing like that. It's like living in the hotel. I mean
[speaker001:] Oh, man.
[speaker002:] she's totally on her own.
[speaker001:] That's neat.
[speaker002:] Uh, and she still drives, which we do, does scare us some, because she has dented a few things, you know,
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] and we keep thinking about that, you know
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] because she, they get less alert, and they don't care, and I've seen some of these elderly people on T V you know, the ones from Florida that just run into people and they don't even
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] understand what happened, you know.
[speaker001:] I know, bless their hearts, you hate to hurt them by doing that, that's
[speaker002:] I know.
[speaker001:] like their one last thing that they can still do, and you take away that driving ability and that would really be hard. We've,
[speaker002:] I, I know. Go ahead, I'm sorry.
[speaker001:] Well, we've thought about doing that for my husband's father, because he,
[speaker002:] Oh, he still drives?
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] That's gre-, well, it's wonderful in one respect, but I don't know if you can afford the insurance, yeah.
[speaker001:] Well, luckily he drives a big old tank [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] So, he, I mean, I don't think he, he could get hurt. I just hope to God he doesn't ever hurt anyone. But he
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] he hasn't had any accidents luckily.
[speaker002:] That's good. I mean, people are all different.
[speaker001:] Yeah, yeah.
[speaker002:] I, I wonder if they should give them a test, or at least maybe not take their licen-, maybe give them a refresher driving course, and just to see how well they are every five years.
[speaker001:] I saw that on TWENTY TWENTY.
[speaker002:] Are they doing it?
[speaker001:] They, um, you know, they're testing that, they're, you know, thinking of doing that. And I think that would be a great idea, because I think they do, come, become less aware, and they just, I don't know, they, and they don't hear as well, for one thing
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] and that doesn't help.
[speaker002:] Well, everybody needs retraining. It doesn't hurt, uh,
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] you know, the best football players and all the opera singers still have coaches, and I don't know why you couldn't after sixty-five every five years have a refresher course and then take another driving.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] It would sure, the insurance companies would, would probably help pay for some of that, you know.
[speaker001:] At least that way the burden is not on the family of taking their license or their car away [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Right, there you go, there's a good point
[speaker001:] It's on the state [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] very good point. Very good point. But I think they maybe, should do that, and then the families,

[speaker001:] [static] Well, we're just starting a family through adoption so I don't really have a lot of, uh, concrete, uh, opinions. Just what I know out of my peer group, uh, has gone through. And none of it has been good [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Oh, really?
[speaker001:] Yeah. Uh, the ones that can afford to have live-in nannies,
[speaker002:] Huh.
[speaker001:] They seem to be having an okay time.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Uh, but a lot of the other ones that have, are professional, uh, I'd say fifty percent of, you know, my peers that I'm, in my circle of friends have tried it and then stopped working until they're, you know, going to get their children in kindergarten or first grade.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Uh, but I, there must be some good service out there if you
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] really look and pay for it.
[speaker002:] What, what age child are you thinking in terms of?
[speaker001:] In terms of what they're talking about.
[speaker002:] No. For, for yourselves [static].
[speaker001:] Oh. Infant. Uh...
[speaker002:] Oh, okay.
[speaker001:] Infant.
[speaker002:] So you're starting from the b-, [LAUGHTER] from the baseline.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Yeah. After eleven years of marriage. Yeah, we are. We're actually, it's happening now. So, we're just going through the process.
[speaker002:] I see [bird squawk].
[speaker001:] So an-, and actually the question is, uh, very appropriate. Cause I'm not sure whether, uh, how strong the maternal instinct is going to be. They tell me it's going to be strong [LAUGHTER]. Do you
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] have children?
[speaker002:] I have one son.
[speaker001:] And did you put him in daycare or is he older now or younger or?
[speaker002:] Well, he's, he's now eighteen. And in, in, you know, has completed a couple of years of university.
[speaker001:] Sure. So he's out of daycare [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] I, right. And, and so that, but I was working full-time, uh
[speaker001:] You, uh-huh.
[speaker002:] when he was born. But I was very lucky because I was a, a college professor.
[speaker001:] Oh.
[speaker002:] And so I was able to, you know, and I, it was
[speaker001:] Flex.
[speaker002:] walking distance from, from
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] my apartment. So I went up there and I sort of left him with, with a neighbor.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And I left him in a carry cot when he was very little [NOISE]. And I said, you know, he doesn't need anything except, you know, look at him if he cries. But, you know, don't pick him up and, and
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] this sort of stuff. Because I was gone only an hour at a stretch or an hour and a half.
[speaker001:] Oh, that's wonderful.
[speaker002:] And I was able to, you know, get, his schedule just, uh, cooperated.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] And...
[speaker001:] That's wonderful. Yeah.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] And, and I guess, uh, th-, because of your, um, your, uh, profession. I mean, I, uh, I'm in corporate communications. But I've done free-lance writing in the past,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] so what we're hoping is that, uh, I mean my husband thinks I can do it. I've just never worked out of a domestic base, you know. I've always
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] been in a corporate, uh, environment. Uh, but I'm hoping that possibly I can do something where I can go flextime or part-time or if they don't have that, uh, my boss, I'm very lucky though, again too, my boss is very akin to family building. So, I think that's som-, th-, something that couples need in going
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] into this.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] Uh, I don't know. I do think there's good daycare out there. What part of the country are you in?
[speaker002:] I'm in Maryland.
[speaker001:] You're in Maryland.
[speaker002:] But, but I was out of the country when, uh, my, my son was little. But, but the thing is, if you have this flextime and that, you might be able to do something similar to what I did.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] Which is
[speaker001:] That's what I'm hoping.
[speaker002:] you know, be there short times and then later on when he was, you know
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] I mean this, we're talking about, uh, I went back to work and, or taught some, some classes like a week after he was born.
[speaker001:] Oh, my goodness. You were
[speaker002:] And so...
[speaker001:] fortunate. Yeah.
[speaker002:] Yeah. And so that's when I was
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] saying, you know, don't, don't pick him up and stuff. But then later what I did was I brought a woman into the house.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh. Sure.
[speaker002:] And she, she was supposed to help me a little bit with cooking and doing the baby's laundry and this sort of stuff.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And then, I also came home and sort of was able to see from a distance what she was doing.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And, you know, in a sense she, she carried him around a lot, too much. Uh, you know
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] for, for my taste.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] It was constantly, no, I don't want him,
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] to explore anything. He might, uh, he might hurt himself [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] So do you think that, I mean, do you think that that was in a way though, good ob-, good objectivity that, that doesn't really, that's not a correct English but, you know
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] in a sense, you see what I'm saying though. From a mother's standpoint, I mean in a way, i-, it was quote and unquote good ob-, objectivity.
[speaker002:] I think it worked out very, very well. Because what he learned to do by the time he was
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] two or so, he would sit next to the desk where I was grading papers or
[speaker001:] See.
[speaker002:] writing lesson plans.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And he had asked for a paper and, you know, sort of scribble and then he realized that there
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] were quiet times and there were active times.
[speaker001:] Right. And then he learned he, he also learned that, uh, there were times that you had to be gone, so you probably minimized, well we're actually, uh, we're getting ready. I mean, you're far enough away now I can tell you [LAUGHTER] since this is locally, I make sure, we're going to Romania in a few weeks.
[speaker002:] Oh.
[speaker001:] And that's, uh, just.
[speaker002:] Did you say Romania
[speaker001:] R-,
[speaker002:] or Armenia?
[speaker001:] Romania.
[speaker002:] Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah.
[speaker001:] As in, like, what Twenty Twenty and, uh, but we, we're real excited because we've just developed a contact.
[speaker002:] Oh, good.
[speaker001:] Through professional people and it's private and it's hospital. It's, we're just very excited [LAUGHTER]. Uh...
[speaker002:] Oh great.
[speaker001:] And w-, i-, i-, what's the word I'm looking for. When you deal with issues like that, uh, in terms of family building through adoption, uh, and then you have people responding to you, well if you go through that why would you put them in daycare.
[speaker002:] Oh that's silly.
[speaker001:] Uh, issues are being raised prematurely in my mind. But I guess they're not because it's something I'll have to deal with sooner than later. Uh, and I, what I've learned to do is just tune out everybody's opinion. I feel that if the child is healthy, uh, and as long as we make it feel secure, I'd love to do something like with what you did.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Uh, I don't think I could be dumper where I could take it from, you know, eight in the morning till nine at night or six at night and leave it there.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] Uh, maybe after two or three or, y-, years old. I don't know. Um.
[speaker002:] Oh, I [LAUGHTER], in my opinion, it's even than. I mean
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] your kids need you [bird squawk].
[speaker001:] Well, they need a schedule I think. I don't think the United States, what country were you, uh, in Europe when you were uh, uh?
[speaker002:] No, I was in the Middle East.
[speaker001:] Uh, that's [LAUGHTER]. Well, that's the same thing. I mean I don't know how they are there but, uh, in eastern Europe, my stepfather's from England, it just seems the United States does not provide for either child care or geriat-, or elder care, as I call it.
[speaker002:] Right, right.
[speaker001:] Uh, and we're just not set up for that. Uh, with the.
[speaker002:] I, yeah.
[speaker001:] Go ahead.
[speaker002:] No, I was just going to say, I guess, uh, my sensitivities are, are much more with the, you know, to be at home. Because actually, I had
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] my grandmother with me from the time she was from the time she was ninety-two until she died at ninety-seven.
[speaker001:] See, I think that's wonderful.
[speaker002:] And, I mean, that was recently after my son, [LAUGHTER] was going off. And I mean, yes, in a sense, I went to work and she was at home alone some of the time. But, but still, you know, it was much better than being shipped to
[speaker001:] To.
[speaker002:] a daycare center.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] You know, which is much my [LAUGHTER] feelings on kids and the elderly. I think we're t-, we're too, too much towards it's somebody
[speaker001:] We cast off.
[speaker002:] problem, you know.
[speaker001:] Right, right. Th-, I'm that way. Yeah.
[speaker002:] I want to work. Shove them in, in some school for twelve hours a day.
[speaker001:] Right. It's easier and I agree with that. That's why I
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] y-, you know, what is amazing to me is now your son is already grown but you can probably empathize with this. It's amazing to me how forthcoming people are with their opinions and thoughts [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Right, right.
[speaker001:] In terms of what to do. Uh, and I just don't think there is a day, a good daycare system. Uh, my company, I'm particularly fortunate that they have, they're in tune with that. But I've been at companies where, uh, you know, the, deci-, the, the trend is, or the definite mood is, well we made conscious decisions not to have children.
[speaker002:] And that's sad.
[speaker001:] You know. And in, and a couple like us building through adoption, there, it's almost radical to some people.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] And what you just learn to do is tune everybody else out and, uh, I respect, there are some women that I know that are divorced or on their own or in single parenting and men that they, you know, they may have the need for child care like that.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] But I agree with you, that it's just, I call it dumping [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] I, I...
[speaker002:] No, I, I think that certainly there is a role, uh, for this type of help.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And, and as long as one can, can supervise it and, and, you know, make it work in, into one's own schedule without it seeming like dumping or
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] or, or, uh, giving it, you know, the whole job to somebody else to take care of.
[speaker001:] Then, yeah, it's ar-,
[speaker002:] .
[speaker001:] in tandem then.
[speaker002:] Yeah, yeah [NOISE].
[speaker001:] I just, uh, and there are trade-offs too I think. One of the things that is a problem is that, uh, in terms of compensation to some of the child care providers.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Uh, it's just, you know, it's so low but yet the overall cost for somebody doing it on a daily or even a weekly basis, it's prohibitive. And some people that are not making more than twenty thousand a year
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] uh...
[speaker002:] Actually, there seems to be an alternative in my neighborhood. Is
[speaker001:] Really.
[speaker002:] there seem, there are several, u-, u-, m-, mothers who stay home.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And they take, you know, it's probably not completely legal [NOISE]. Uh, I, maybe it's legal up to one or two additional kids.
[speaker001:] Sure.
[speaker002:] But, and they, they take care of another child and I, I can actually n-, could name five or six people around my neighborhood that really do a good job on this.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh. And they, yeah.
[speaker002:] [swallowing] And I mean that's another possibility and, you know, you might want to stay home one year and some other lady might want to stay home for a, a few years and...
[speaker001:] I haven't thought about that. Yeah. And actually my neighbor has an eighteen month old and she's at home part-time paralegal. So I'm thinking, um [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Yeah, yeah.
[speaker001:] And we get along fantastically so I'm thinking, you know. And that's the way you have to, uh, how wa-, I'm just real curious. How was the Middle East in terms of that with children? Is that, is child care or that type of idea completely foreign to them?
[speaker002:] No. Well, actually there was a daycare center, uh, where my son did go for a year. I think from when he was two to three.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] But then he actually started kindergarten at age three.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And so, and i-, you know, it wasn't like prekindergarten, it was real kindergarten.
[speaker001:] Oh, really. He must be smart. Yeah.
[speaker002:] Yeah. So he, he was ready to, to go to school at that point.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] But, yeah, they're, they do have such facilities. But for the most part, uh, th-, with the extended family, you know, you can usually find somebody. Which is much like our neighbor
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] you know, to, sharing responsibility. And I'm, and also there aren't that many women who, who d-, who work.
[speaker001:] The professional. Yeah, I was wondering about that.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Uh, there, I'm in Dallas and there was just a very big, uh, series about Moslem women and
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] there were enlightening things that broke some of my stereotypical thoughts. I'm digressing here but, uh, I was just real curious when you said Middle East, if you
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] didn't mind me asking.
[speaker002:] No, no. And I didn't mean Israel. So you, you assumed right [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Oh, no that's okay [LAUGHTER]. Well, even if you did, that's okay actually. I think...
[speaker002:] Well, no because at first thought, when I s-, you know, I said that not many people work, I'm, I'm thinking oh, well she's going to, you know, because certainly in Israel the women do work [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Right. Right. They fight, they work.

[speaker001:] Okay, for as far as, um, I would think the, probably the, uh, worst substance that's probably, um, or, started to say the, uh, what causes the most air pollution is probably the car
[speaker002:] Probably so,
[speaker001:] and, uh, whether or not, um, they'll ever get into like huge transit systems into big cities where people would all travel on a high speed, uh, train [LAUGHTER] or, or something like that or,
[speaker002:] Yeah, it'll be hard to get people to give up their mobility.
[speaker001:] Yeah, that's exactly it, and that's what we're finding, um, here, where we're at, in Minneapolis area, is that people don't want to carpool
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] that there are inconveniences to that, or maybe you don't like the person you have to, you would want to carpool with, that kind of thing, so it's, it's kind of a thing where, uh, I think the majority of the people do not carpool.
[speaker002:] I think so too. I'm in Texas
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] and very few people carpool
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] uh, the people that I know don't want to because, uh, they never know for sure what time they're going to leave their job
[speaker001:] Exactly.
[speaker002:] they never know when they want to run out and do an errand at noon, you know,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh,
[speaker002:] they just feel they need their car.
[speaker001:] or if somebody gets sick. Yeah, or if somebody gets sick, and it's not the other person
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and they want to go home, and that one person's got the car
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] then they're, they're stuck, you're
[speaker002:] That's right.
[speaker001:] definitely right, so, *slash error
[speaker002:] And people don't want to give it up
[speaker001:] Yes, *slash error
[speaker002:] but now I think we've made great strides
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] in changing a lot of that by going to the unleaded gasoline and [NOISE] [telephone click]
[speaker001:] Sure.
[speaker002:] and to change the car itself
[speaker001:] Sure, that happens quite a bit,
[speaker002:] but, uh, you know, I, I don't guess we can get away from it a hundred percent
[speaker001:] Yes, yeah
[speaker002:] but
[speaker001:] that's very true.
[speaker002:] yeah. *should this be two slash units?
[speaker001:] Uh, other than that, uh, I don't know,
[speaker002:] Well, my other line is ringing
[speaker001:] Okay.
[speaker002:] but we're going to ignore it [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Oh, okay, [LAUGHTER] we'll try to be real quick here.
[speaker002:] I'm sorry for these beeps,
[speaker001:] The other thing then is, because I don't know how long they want us to talk,
[speaker002:] Oh, close to five minutes, I believe.
[speaker001:] Five minutes, oh, okay.
[speaker002:] And you're in Minneapolis,
[speaker001:] Minneapolis area,
[speaker002:] Well, is the pollution really bad up there?
[speaker001:] Uh, actually no. We have, uh, quite a bit, uh, the only problem that we have and that's all over the whole world is ozone
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and of course hay fever season
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] you get some pollutants such as those, but those are natural
[speaker002:] Yeah [sniffing].
[speaker001:] um, but there is starting to, in Minneapolis itself, because of so many people on the highway, there is becoming a problem of pollution, and
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] they just put in a strict law that as of every year when you get your license tabs
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] you have to have your car inspected
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] to see if it's releasing any, uh, lead into the air
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] or other pollutants, and if that's the case, then you have to get your car fixed,
[speaker002:] Well
[speaker001:] at least where you.
[speaker002:] that's the way it has gotten here. We have just had that law, I think, about a year, maybe a year and a half here in Texas
[speaker001:] Sure, yeah,
[speaker002:] but, uh, I think it's a good idea
[speaker001:] Yeah, it's not a bad idea.
[speaker002:] because a lot of people still want to drive the older cars
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] which you can't blame them for that
[speaker001:] Sure, sure,
[speaker002:] and, uh, but if they are polluting the air, they need, do need to have them fixed
[speaker001:] Exactly,
[speaker002:] and you know, there's a big move, especially in the industrial part in Texas right now of controlling the C F C -s
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] that the big manufacturing companies are producing into the air
[speaker001:] Sure.
[speaker002:] they're having to change the type of products they use
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] uh, they can't use, like, I have a friend that's in the air conditioning heating business
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] and they have to pay a penalty for every ounce or pound of this certain type of freon that they use in the air conditioning syst-, systems
[speaker001:] Sure.
[speaker002:] therefore, the individual, every time they have a service call, if they have an old unit that's still using this twenty-two freon or whatever
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] it is, it costs them three times as much to get it fixed
[speaker001:] Sure.
[speaker002:] and, uh, if you have a new high efficiency system that uses the new type of freons that do not release as many C F C -s into the atmosphere
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] it doesn't cost as much
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] so eventually people are going to have to go to newer systems, you know,
[speaker001:] Sure
[speaker002:] But,
[speaker001:] uh, the other thing when you're talking about freon with cars, uh, air conditioning, I'm sure
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] over there it's a necessity
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] versus something up here we can live without it but it's uncomfortable
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] but, uh, this year my husband recharged our freon because it was, needed to be done, and one of the cans [LAUGHTER] released entire amount
[speaker002:] Um.
[speaker001:] of freon into the, uh, into the air because he opened it, and, I don't know
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] if there was something wrong with it, or it, his directions weren't quite fully instructed onto that, and I was thinking how many other people
[speaker002:] It's probably happened to millions of people,
[speaker001:] oh, sure, because
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] if you take it into a service station,
[speaker002:] [Sniffing].
[speaker001:] they want to charge you forty dollars just for, uh, freon, which only costs you about three dollars
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] so I have this feeling that freon probably will increase in price because it is something that people will have to take into consideration and say, Hey, that's
[speaker002:] Uh-huh
[speaker001:] that's right there. I think it's like three or four dollars a, a can
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] and it takes about four to five cans to fill up a air conditioning unit in a car, and I, I thought about that, and my husband even was kind of woozy after that because I'm sure he breathed it [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] Inhaled so much of it, uh-huh.
[speaker001:] but, uh, you think about that, all the people that are using freon and things like that and, *slash error
[speaker002:] Yeah, well, of course in the, uh, I think you probably noticed in the discount stores and places, in the hair sprays
[speaker001:] Uh-huh. *slash error
[speaker002:] we're not seeing as many aerosol cans down here
[speaker001:] Exactly.
[speaker002:] nearly everything is in the pump squirt,
[speaker001:] Pump, yeah, *should this be two slash units?

[speaker001:] good morning my name is Jean
[speaker002:] hi I'm Tina
[speaker001:] oh where you from Tina
[speaker002:] I live in Garland Texas
[speaker001:] oh Garland Texas I'm in Pennsylvania
[speaker002:] oh my lands you're the farthest person I've ever talked to yeah
[speaker001:] really do you work for Texas Instruments
[speaker002:] my husband does yeah probably most people you talk to do huh
[speaker001:] uh-huh huh most of them do now I don't have anybody that works for TI but uh
[speaker002:] huh
[speaker001:] my son works for a computer company the National Institute of some something I don't know what
[speaker002:] I see well that's neat
[speaker001:] so I guess we're supposed to talk about foods today
[speaker002:] yeah I guess you have to push one though okay yeah
[speaker001:] yes uh-huh you ready okay  uh foods like you would plan for a a dinner party or something like that yeah
[speaker002:] yeah I guess so it may be interesting because probably here in Texas we may eat a little differently than you do up there
[speaker001:] well I don't know my brother lives down East of us down there and I don't think they ate all that much different
[speaker002:] oh really
[speaker001:] uh I think as long as you plan your basic foods course for a dinner party you fancy things up a little bit more
[speaker002:] yeah that's true
[speaker001:] uh
[speaker002:] well uh the thing that I found interesting my husband and I lived up in Washington state for awhile
[speaker001:] um um-hum
[speaker002:] and up there of course they ate a lot of sea food and that kind of thing and down here sea food is pretty expensive because you have to ship it a long way to get it
[speaker001:] oh uh-huh right yeah and it's not as good as if it's fresh it
[speaker002:] right and and uh and but here we eat a lot of like Mexican foods and um up there there was no no place that we went tasted like real Mexican food to me
[speaker001:] uh-huh is that right yeah
[speaker002:] yeah it tasted like they were trying to do the best they could but it just didn't taste right
[speaker001:] well they probably were trying to do the best they could yeah
[speaker002:] yeah and uh down here we eat a lot more fried foods I think like chicken fried steak is a real big thing and up there uh it was hardly ever heard of and
[speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh uh-huh uh-huh
[speaker002:] we drink ice tea with every meal and
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] up there hardly anyone drank ice tea
[speaker001:] yeah well they do in the summertime I think that tea big in the summertime mostly of course you have warmer weather most of the time
[speaker002:] really yeah right yeah it never gets real cold so
[speaker001:] so uh yeah so I
[speaker002:] yeah but when when we have a dinner party around here I think a lot of the time a Mexican menu is something real popular
[speaker001:] is that right
[speaker002:] yeah I know that um I do a lot of planning with our church and a lot of the times when we get together well everybody will bring a Mexican dish or and Italian food is real big too
[speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh uh-huh uh-huh more like covered dishes for those type of dinners
[speaker002:] uh-huh yeah yeah how about you what is real popular up there
[speaker001:] well I don't know just about anything
[speaker002:] oh really
[speaker001:] yeah we we really uh use most anything I uh I think are like parties and that though are well like we had a dinner party here here not too long ago with a mystery dinner party but basically we tried you know included all the basic uh foods that you are supposed to have in a meal here
[speaker002:] oh uh-huh
[speaker001:] your uh bread family and your or least what it used to be the regular menu followed and ham and bake potatoes and uh
[speaker002:] uh-huh uh-hum
[speaker001:] uh something from each each area that you're supposed to choose from
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] and uh we we we ourselves are into the wok cooking you know they been advertising that and we've really been enjoying those uh meals
[speaker002:] um-hum well that's good
[speaker001:] they have a lot of vegetable to them and uh they really are very good
[speaker002:] um-hum right oh yes I I love that kind of cooking my uh unfortunately I am married to a man and have two children that eat about four things
[speaker001:] is he a meat and potato person well all our family is is gone they are out on their own and uh
[speaker002:] right they uh-huh that probably makes it easier but
[speaker001:] it it's much different and uh
[speaker002:] yeah we find ourselves eating a lot of macaroni and cheese and uh and of course
[speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh well my husband didn't like that so we as kids we had five children and we ate that when he he wasn't going to be home for supper that's what we had
[speaker002:] uh right yeah well that's pretty much what we do if dad's not coming home we have macaroni and cheese or something
[speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh
[speaker002:] but they like uh spaghetti you know that's one meal I can fix and the whole family eats but there are several things that well as a matter of fact I keep chicken nuggets handy all the time because
[speaker001:] uh yeah yeah yeah oh those always go good
[speaker002:] yeah the children love them and uh they are real easy to cook and that way whatever meat we have if they don't like it well and my girls don't like beef I don't know
[speaker001:] yeah yeah oh really well maybe that's good the way way the things are going
[speaker002:] I guess well yeah it could be because they don't I think it's the texture of it but it takes more chewing and
[speaker001:] uh-huh right children usually they like the ham and the hamburgers and that and it is easier to chew
[speaker002:] uh-huh right right so they're not too much into beef and my husband and I eat more beef than we should but at least we keep our chicken nuggets handy for them
[speaker001:] uh-huh right we don't really have uh you know entertain too much
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] I don't know if you do or not but we we don't a whole lot we're more once in a while but mostly family activities
[speaker002:] yeah well most of the entertaining we do is church associated we have a real tiny little house we don't have room really to have people here but we do get together for what fellowships at our church and
[speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh uh-huh uh-huh
[speaker002:] my husband and I do a lot of the planning in that and
[speaker001:] yeah well that's good
[speaker002:] yeah it is and it's fun to uh I like just having a pot luck meal where everyone brings their favorite dish
[speaker001:] um-hum yeah we do a lot of that type thing at church and our homemakers meet at the church also and uh that's what we do mostly most of the time for that
[speaker002:] yeah uh-huh yeah yeah
[speaker001:] so you don't really include any certain food groups you just bring what you like
[speaker002:] right that's right
[speaker001:] sometimes you have all desserts sometimes you have all vegetables
[speaker002:] yeah yeah that's truth that's the only problem with just letting you bring whatever you uh like best
[speaker001:] yeah but it doesn't happen very often usually you get a pretty wide variety and you can you can have a pretty good meals from one of those
[speaker002:] uh-huh yeah yeah I remember one time we had a progressive dinner it's the only time that ever yeah they are
[speaker001:] oh those are fun uh-huh
[speaker002:] but the it's the only time that I can remember that I can't remember what food it was I it might have been the main dish that hardly anyone showed up with
[speaker001:] uh
[speaker002:] several people were supposed to bring you know each like uh a an appetizer and a main dish and a dessert and we had tons of desserts and tons of appetizers and
[speaker001:] uh uh-huh uh uh-huh oh
[speaker002:] but when we came to the main main dish plate there was only like two or three
[speaker001:] oh is there enough to go around
[speaker002:] well not really you know we all took real tiny little portions and uh were kind of angry with whoever it was we weren't sure who didn't show up with the food
[speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh they were suppose to keep uh yeah that's kind of irresponsible but that what upset you because they are grown adults usually and they know they know better even if they can't do it they can always need to get somebody else that could
[speaker002:] yes right right either either go ahead and fix your dish or call someone that can I know it
[speaker001:] right right
[speaker002:] well that sounds neat I can't uh believe you're so far away but you sound so close
[speaker001:] they said that we could share we share a recipe but I'm up at my daughter's I don't even have any of my recipes with me uh you know
[speaker002:] it sounds like you're here in Dallas oh I don't know if I have anything handy we were just about we were getting ready to go swimming and we're waiting on my sister
[speaker001:] oh oh great
[speaker002:] Cara hold on just a second as a matter of fact my little one is hollering
[speaker001:] they're ready to go well I we probably have we talked long enough I'm I
[speaker002:] yeah I I think it probably has been so I've enjoyed talking to you
[speaker001:] okay so I'll let you oh same here you have a good day
[speaker002:] thank you thanks for calling bye-bye
[speaker001:] uh-huh bye-bye

[speaker001:] so you like to fish huh
[speaker002:] yeah I like to um I don't have a boat but I like to fish and there's a lot of lakes around here um are there many lakes up there
[speaker001:] yeah actually there are quite a bit of lakes around me we actually uh we have the those little the the the Great Lakes you know Great uh Lake Ontario is right near here
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] plus we're in what's called the Finger Lake Region of New York where there're lots of small lakes everywhere and these are uh real good um for like you know bass fishing and so forth
[speaker002:] they have mostly small mouth in them or
[speaker001:] no we have a quite actually quite a lot of variety here's uh there's we have large mouth small mouth um sort of musky pike stuff like that
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] you know all sorts of fun stuff like that um we have a pretty large bass masters tournament actually takes place right on Lake Ontario every year
[speaker002:] oh yeah that's right uh-huh
[speaker001:] so it's it's that's a lot of fun
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] how about you do you like what what do you like to go for
[speaker002:] oh it's it's uh I fish for bass but I hardly ever catch one but um um they have a tail race over in Lake Lavon and uh you know they wash when they open up the dam and let out water they wash down the fish and uh you catch that white bass and crappie out of there
[speaker001:] yeah um
[speaker002:] every once in a while there'll be striped bass
[speaker001:] we have uh some friends who live on a lake and it the lake it just seems is is completely filled with bass to the point where you know normally you go you you go fishing for bass you get a lot of sunfish or
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] or cat or whatever and some other strange stuff but in this particular lake we went out with some friends once and we just every time you tossed the line in you pull up a five six seven inch minimum bass and usually you pull up you know thirteen to fourteen inch bass
[speaker002:] wow
[speaker001:] yeah it's a real it's a real enjoyable experience to go fishing there because we just we pull up you know bass after bass and
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] during perch season as well you pull up a lot of uh probably during during perch season the perch will run in very large schools so what they'll do is just you'll you'll be sort of boating around these people own a little row boat and they'll be boating around and they'll hit a they'll hit a school of perches in the middle
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] and when they do you can just drop the lines in and just pull them in one at they they just drop it in they they can't pull it in fast enough
[speaker002:] what do you what do you catch perch on
[speaker001:] um I they actually they according to them you can catch when the perch are running you can catch them on just about anything
[speaker002:] huh
[speaker001:] they tend to use I guess worms or some kind of lures sometimes but you know I've she told me that they will sometimes use corn or anything you know
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] they'll corn or salami or bread or anything they'll they'll they'll hit because they're just sort of surrounded these large schools
[speaker002:] yeah it's sometimes I use corn but uh uh some fish steal it off the hook sometimes
[speaker001:] yeah it's a big problem
[speaker002:] yeah um the other day I was fishing with bread uh there's a college across the street and they it's it's full of carp
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] and uh I caught a carp on a about what size is that uh I think it was a number two treble hook and it's huge its its mouth was just full of hooks
[speaker001:] um wow
[speaker002:] so he was in a bad way but uh it's he was fast
[speaker001:] a big one
[speaker002:] he's uh yeah well it's uh it was sixteen inches long
[speaker001:] wow that's that's that's a nice size carp
[speaker002:] yeah I think it was about a pound and a half you know but all they're good for is the fight boy they don't they really don't want to come out of the water they they zip through the water you know you're how your line goes you know
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] and I thought you know that uh I wasn't going to be able to get it in because uh the one I hooked just about ten minutes before when when I tried to raise it out of the water it fell off so it wasn't hooked very well but you know I got it that far I figured that uh
[speaker001:] that that that counts
[speaker002:] yeah that's what I said that's what I told the guy the guy was standing there and he laughed when it fell off and I said that's a quick release right there
[speaker001:] do you do you do you actually like the taste of fish do you like eat the fish that you catch or are you more of a sport fisherman
[speaker002:] um catfish yeah but uh I haven't eaten anything else you know
[speaker001:] um
[speaker002:] um there's some uh my dad has a farm and there's he has two ponds up there and my uncle has a a pond upstream and there's a lot of crappie in there now but uh I think he's the only one that's that's caught enough crappie or a big enough crappie to eat but the catfish there's you know there's hundreds of them from like two to six pounds and
[speaker001:] right so you can just
[speaker002:] yeah yeah
[speaker001:] oh because I don't actually like fish it's sort of so when I fish it's more for sport than anything else
[speaker002:] yeah and if you know when you when you have to look in their eyes and you know hit them in the head or whatever that's what you do with a catfish you know because you have to sever their spinal cord
[speaker001:] right and and and and and be careful you don't get stung
[speaker002:] yeah yeah
[speaker001:] yeah I know it have you ever tried uh deep sea fishing
[speaker002:] uh not yet my brother went off the coast of Maine uh when the I don't know what they Mackerel that school out there it's he he said that it was just like that they were throwing like uh uh hell benders or uh
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] uh some other kind of treble hook lure and and uh each time they bring them in they'd have at least one sometimes they've had two on you know one on every hook
[speaker001:] yeah we I was out in Florida with a friend a while ago and we would go and just uh drop two you know a a two or three rig two or three hooked rig as well down off a boat we just dropped it down there and the captain had you know some kind of sonar in the boat so he'd maneuver us in into a school of fish and you just drop it in and
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] and it just you you get one or two at a shot you know and
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] it's a good deal too it was it was a like twenty dollars for six hours of fishing on some big charter boat
[speaker002:] wow
[speaker001:] you know and and and they'll clean your fish on a tip basis for you if you want
[speaker002:] yeah down here it's like two hundred dollars a day
[speaker001:] well this is yeah this this this was for a you know large there were
[speaker002:] a group party
[speaker001:] maybe thirty of us on the boat we we weren't all related just you know thirty people off the shop in the boat there if you want to go on a boat alone it's like two hundred dollars a day
[speaker002:] yeah yeah
[speaker001:] but this is great because it was I think it was nineteen dollars for five hours and twenty dollars for six hours or something
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] you know so you'd get to go out there for five for for six hours and get a nice suntan and bring along some lunch and and fish all day it's really nice it's real enjoyable
[speaker002:] yeah well I I don't know if it's been five minutes yet or not
[speaker001:] I think we're probably close though
[speaker002:] yeah it's nice talking to you
[speaker001:] nice talking to you too good luck with fishing this season
[speaker002:] good luck bye-bye
[speaker001:] bye-bye

[speaker001:] okay was I supposed to do something
[speaker002:] no I had to press one
[speaker001:] good uh let's see so uh were we right in the Middle East
[speaker002:] sure
[speaker001:] should we have been there
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] did we do what was correct there
[speaker002:] I think we should have stayed longer
[speaker001:] should we have fought them harder used more weapons equal to their chemical weapons that weren't used
[speaker002:] uh I think what we did was good but I think we just should have stayed there longer and continued doing what we did do
[speaker001:] oh you agree with Schwartzkopf who says uh Drive on into Baghdad
[speaker002:] yeah I think we should have stayed and kind of helped the people in Iraq out now because it's kind of like a civil war going on now And it's almost like they're killing each other off and there is not going to be anything left of Iraq at all
[speaker001:] would that be so bad was there anything there to begin with
[speaker002:] well I think I don't think it would be good if we were to completely lose it um
[speaker001:] it wasn't ours
[speaker002:] well no I just mean that that the world in general
[speaker001:] well we've got to talk so it's just just as well we argue
[speaker002:] yeah Um I don't know I think we should have helped the the innocent people in Iraq out a little bit more than rather than just quitting where we did
[speaker001:] I agree wouldn't it have been wonderful if we could have freed the country
[speaker002:] yes But I think that's almost impossible next to impossible
[speaker001:] yeah so other political things that's going on I heard mister Bush say uh excuse me President Bush say that he uh wanted to improve the highways
[speaker002:] oh see I haven't really been keeping up with them so I really don't know what he said what did he say about it
[speaker001:] oh he wanted to take the current secondary highway system and
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] turn it into interstates like the rest of the country
[speaker002:] we don't have the money for that
[speaker001:] but wouldn't it be wonderful
[speaker002:] It would be really nice because I'm kind of tired of driving in pot holes
[speaker001:] and back east you all drive at fifty five don't you what's that oh okay um I say back east you all drive at fifty five don't you see out here in the west
[speaker002:] I'm sorry I dropped the phone yeah
[speaker001:] a lot of our secondary roads are fifty five
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] we drive sixty five oh yes well
[speaker002:] oh really oh really
[speaker001:] I uh last weekend went home to visit my parents my dad's in the hospital and uh
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] between here and west Texas there was probably three and four hours at sixty five miles an hour
[speaker002:] oh I didn't realize that
[speaker001:] nonstop have you have you ever been out here
[speaker002:] no huh-uh
[speaker001:] how far west have you been
[speaker002:] only in Ohio
[speaker001:] oh you've never
[speaker002:] I've never been past Ohio
[speaker001:] you've never seen the great American desert
[speaker002:] no huh-uh I've never seen anything out I never seen the great I've seen
[speaker001:] the Rocky Mountains
[speaker002:] I've never seen I've seen pictures of it but
[speaker001:] Mountains Yellowstone
[speaker002:] I've never been there I've seen pictures I just I'm a college student and um I'm paying for my own education and I'm I come from a large family and we we we're never able to take vacations because there's there's twelve kids in the family so
[speaker001:] uh  well my college education uh thirty six worked for Texas Instruments for seventeen or eighteen now
[speaker002:] oh my
[speaker001:] uh know virtually nothing else uh yeah I got my four year got my BS in General Science
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] yeah I know it's a funny degree uh anyway uh I know nothing other than the west in fact uh
[speaker002:] really  yeah
[speaker001:] down in east Texas where the company's located there's streams and water and things I don't understand trees and have
[speaker002:] uh-huh uh-huh
[speaker001:] the gulf and it's really interesting so tell me about where you live
[speaker002:] uh-huh well um I'm I'm originally from Butler and that's about an hour away from where I am now I'm at Clairon And um it's it's pretty like windy and hilly
[speaker001:] uh how high is the highest elevation
[speaker002:] oh I couldn't even tell you
[speaker001:] like uh probably
[speaker002:] it's not like a mountain it wouldn't be like a mountain it's uh
[speaker001:] three thousand foot
[speaker002:] oh I don't even know I have no clue
[speaker001:] close to sea level
[speaker002:] I would say it's closer to sea level
[speaker001:] okay uh right here in Colorado Springs where I live
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] it's over six thousand foot
[speaker002:] oh well see um
[speaker001:] um yes when I lived in Texas every year I had to drive you know I drove every year to the gulf and you know so I could have a feast of fresh seafood
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] six eight twelve hours away
[speaker002:] um
[speaker001:] you know just just for fresh I I'm really interested in the basic concept differences between west and east coast and the central parts of America
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] how many hours have you been from home
[speaker002:] uh the farthest away from home
[speaker001:] yes
[speaker002:] probably I'd say five or six
[speaker001:] oh yeah
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] uh now when I was growing up in the Panhandle of Texas l ook at your map later and see the the town of Amarillo
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] fifty miles north of that up in the Panhandle to just go buy a pair of jeans we'd drive an hour
[speaker002:] oh my oh my gosh
[speaker001:] when I was growing up now things are different and people buy jeans in town but
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] uh we thought nothing at all of wake up waking up in the morning hopping into your car grabbing fishing poles and driving four hours
[speaker002:] oh yes Now see for me that's a long ways
[speaker001:] yeah it is I imagine
[speaker002:] uh-huh even well like I I'm in like a little town right now it's smaller than Butler and um Butler Butler is about an hour north east of Pittsburgh So that will give you some idea of where I'm at and I'm about
[speaker001:] okay okay I'll look at my map later
[speaker002:] I'm about two hours north east of Pittsburgh
[speaker001:] wow how neat
[speaker002:] and uh I mean just this this little town here is basically a college town the college without the college here this town would be nothing It would be absolutely dead because it's completely made up of fast food restaurants and and in the summer when we come uh my fiancee's family lives up there we come up here in the summer and it's I mean there's just no one around
[speaker001:] so are you working your way through college
[speaker002:] um well I go home in the summer and I work in the summer and between what I make in the summer and student loans that's how I go to college
[speaker001:] well how neat what's your major
[speaker002:] finance
[speaker001:] finance
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] well that's interesting
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] so uh what do you plan to do with it
[speaker002:] um well like I said my fiancee
[speaker001:] savings and loans uh
[speaker002:] no No no no um my fiancee works down in D C and I'd actually like to work for a company rather than a bank or a something I'd rather work for a company and um like be their financial advisor or something
[speaker001:] oh that would be great that would be neat let's see uh so we're all excited in Colorado Springs Apple Computer is coming to town
[speaker002:] uh-huh oh really
[speaker001:] yes the uh new employer in in the city
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] so we're expecting our local economy to
[speaker002:] take a boom a little bit
[speaker001:] uh maybe not a boom but uh at least recover to where we can all hold regular forty hour jobs still
[speaker002:] well well what would be the unemployment rate out there
[speaker001:] uh unemployment runs approximately six percent
[speaker002:] see that's what it is here too
[speaker001:] but now under employment I would suspect to run closer to eighteen or twenty percent
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] and the problem is that there are no good permanent full time jobs for people without a technical four year degree
[speaker002:] yeah It's even getting hard for the four year people to find jobs
[speaker001:] yes it is
[speaker002:] I know people they are out of school for two or three years and they have a job that has nothing to do

[speaker001:] so I own uh a PCAT at my home
[speaker002:] uh-huh I could never justify owning a personal computer at at home uh I mean that's quite an expense to look for uh well well well who is this what do you do use yours at home for
[speaker001:] well that's actually a good question my wife works out of the home uh our home she has an office and it sits actually sits in the office and she uses it to compose and print out letters
[speaker002:] okay well now
[speaker001:] so that's a a very regular use of it that she has
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] and then in addition to that I tinker around with it I'm a computer scientist
[speaker002:] oh
[speaker001:] and so I write programs to do little things I'm actually working on a data base at home just just to keep track of things nothing special and also I'm interested in writing some programs that will you know kind of like remind me of things uh like remind me that Wednesdays is trash day and the like although
[speaker002:] uh-huh well excuse me I uh uh well I'm I'm a technician electronics tech and years ago TI sent me to their uh computer school down in Austin
[speaker001:] hum-um um-hum um-hum
[speaker002:] so uh I learned to repair one but you know I never really learned to operate one
[speaker001:] oh that's a key thing well actually there's that's a there's really two issues to that that there's so many packages software packages available today that just require no programming
[speaker002:] yes
[speaker001:] so that you you in other words when someone built that software package they had to use the programming but if they were careful they could uh make the use of it totally without understanding how the computer works
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] but I think you you you really hit the nail on the head for the average person is exactly what he can use it for and if your wife isn't working out of the home and sending out letters or if you don't want to build a data base to keep track of the nuts and bolts in your garage or whatever there your issue is then there really is
[speaker002:] well uh space is a handicap with me I live in a motor home
[speaker001:] oh I see wow
[speaker002:] and I'm preparing for retirement
[speaker001:] I see well congratulations on that
[speaker002:] hey I'm not too far from it another year and a half
[speaker001:] yeah well actually uh one other thing I might ought to mention is that they are actually getting quite cheap that
[speaker002:] yes definitely the just like the computers
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] uh remember how they started out running three four hundred dollars
[speaker001:] right oh the calculators you mean
[speaker002:] now I mean calculators calculators I beg your pardon yeah
[speaker001:] yeah uh-huh yeah they sure do yeah I actually was thinking about upgrading mine very recently and kind of look at the whole spectrum you can actually buy a whole a whole brand new computer with a not not a uh necessarily a slow one or or inadequate one but a pretty good one for six hundred dollars
[speaker002:] you're kidding including a printer
[speaker001:] no hm that well actually actually I wasn't including a printer but you you can buy a printer now for a hundred dollars so make it seven hundred
[speaker002:] a hundred
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] wholly smoke uh a respectable one
[speaker001:] yes uh-huh um-hum
[speaker002:] well see of not being particularly interested I don't keep track of prices on them but I'm I'm that does amaze amaze me
[speaker001:] yeah the prices have plummeted you can buy the computer the guts just the guts with the power supply the box and the mother board of a a type of computer called an 8088 for about two hundred dollars
[speaker002:] um-hum hum
[speaker001:] and then the keyboard is another fifty the monitor with the card that drives it is another hundred and then the disk drive is two fifty and
[speaker002:] well what what is a a a good brand a for inexpensive
[speaker001:] well that's the that's the deal is you're not buying brands now you're buying these knock offs so there's uh probably the way to do it if you really wanted to buy one there's there's a magazine called Computer Shopper
[speaker002:] huh huh
[speaker001:] it's a it's a big magazine I mean it's it's twelve inches across uh narrow the narrow side and and fifteen fifteen seventeen inches the tall side and it's probably an inch thick a thousand pages but the book is the magazine is full
[speaker002:] oh wow
[speaker001:] of these mail order computer mail order houses and they're all competing with each so you just flip through there until you find a 8088 computer
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] that's that's called that's the original PC so it's be called a TI PC I'm sorry an IBM PC compatible and you'll find all these things and you'll find the monitors for forty dollars and the card that drives the monitor that goes in the back of the board board for twenty five dollars which is amazing to me and just you mix and match and then you do it by mail order
[speaker002:] hum
[speaker001:] but there's no real brands there's probably a half a dozen companies around the world that are making those mother boards the main computer the circuit board
[speaker002:] I see how do you go about getting one of those uh catalogs
[speaker001:] they're available in you know the B Daltons that that type of thing
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] you'll notice it in that it's it's a it's a very it's although it's a magazine it's large and like I said it's about an inch thick
[speaker002:] um-hum well getting back to the PC's I'll tell you I uh first of all I don't like a machine that's smarter than me and secondly I learned did learn this much about computers they're they're they are pretty stupid because they add one and one up and come up with ten
[speaker001:] in binary that's right that's great
[speaker002:] well anyway that's one of my favorite jokes about that
[speaker001:] oh yeah
[speaker002:] one and one equals ten
[speaker001:] yeah that's great
[speaker002:] course you it's it's kind of an inside joke you know
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] you can only tell that to somebody who understands binary
[speaker001:] I understand that's great that's a good joke
[speaker002:] so what do you uh uh work with uh computers uh at TI
[speaker001:] well what I did for years and then I was was a scientist over in central research labs and just recently I've changed my job to actually do some of the marketing
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] so I now I I type that one but I don't use it anymore
[speaker002:] um-hum well I just recently started using one uh connection with my work
[speaker001:] I don't um-hum yes
[speaker002:] uh I keep track of an inventory here and of course now that is where a computer is is very handy
[speaker001:] um-hum yes I agree
[speaker002:] and well I it's my responsibility to see that equipment is sent off to be calibrated
[speaker001:] oh yeah
[speaker002:] uh see I'm with the QRA lab
[speaker001:] oh I see that's fascinating
[speaker002:] qualification and evaluation so naturally our equipment has to be in in top condition and is constantly calibrated and they're dated
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] so I have to keep up with them uh and it's very handy doing it on the computer
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] I just run a printout every week and and it puts me right up-to-date what I'm what I have to do what I have to ship what I should be expecting to be returned
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] so uh it it is handy
[speaker001:] right
[speaker002:] and I must admit that up until I did start using one uh it was I had very little interest in computers
[speaker001:] yes
[speaker002:] but they are amazing
[speaker001:] yeah they certainly are so let's see so I guess with respect to the question yeah I I guess we've we've kind of covered it
[speaker002:] well I think we did
[speaker001:] great nice little conversation with you Jack good good day thank you good same to you
[speaker002:] yeah Mike you take care now good luck to you

[speaker001:] Well I wondered if I was going to get to talk to a male or a female on this type [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] Have you been talking to males? Yeah, yeah, this is, this is probably more interesting if it had been a male and a female [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] I was afraid we might get into an argument.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] Well, uh, I guess uh, there have been certainly a lot of changes in the last couple of generations,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] for, uh, the roles of women and uh, I guess the most significant probably is that so many are working now,
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] And trying to juggle job and home and family and all sorts of other possibilities, you know, they may be going to school, or may have elderly parents, or you know all sorts of other things.
[speaker002:] Yeah, it, it seems too me like though that women's roles are changing faster than the men and therefore, the women are spreading themselves thinner,
[speaker001:] Oh, I think so.
[speaker002:] than before.
[speaker001:] Absolutely. I, I, I think it's extremely difficult to keep up with all that we have to these days.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Sometimes, I think I am going crazy trying to do it but,
[speaker002:] Do you work outside the home?
[speaker001:] Yes.
[speaker002:] Do you have children?
[speaker001:] Uh, yes. They are getting older now,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] so they are not quite as much of a responsibility but they are still there, you know,
[speaker002:] Oh sure.
[speaker001:] they still take time, and, and I, you know, I still provide most of the things that go on around the house.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] So, uh, yeah and for a while I was going to school too, and tha-, it was tough.
[speaker002:] Yeah, I uh, I think that while it's a good change for I think women to be able to fulfill their potential in whatever they feel, you know,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] their expertise may be.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Uh, I think sometimes other things suffer and tha-, I think it's hard to find a balance there.
[speaker001:] But in some ways I think we are expected to do it all. You're almost looked down upon if you don't try to do all of these things and
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] that's where the problem is really.
[speaker002:] Yeah, yeah, I have little children, four and one, and I decided that it was very important to me to stay home.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Uh, and when I, I, I happen to, you know be, I'm very active with, uh, people, other people with children my age and most of us do tend to stay home, but when I run into people that, you know, just have recently had babies or have very young children and are working full time, I, there's almost a, uh, friction between us.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh, not people that are, you know, necessarily good friends,
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] Even though that has happened too, uh, it's almost as though it puts you on different sides of a fence. You know w-, if you decide to go back to work then you feel like you are always having to defend yourself.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] And if you don't then, sometimes you feel like you're looked down upon by people that go back to work and so you're just wasting your time,
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] at home.
[speaker001:] Yeah, it's a tough one. I mean, I've done some of both.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] I, when my kids were real little, I was at home for a couple of different periods of time.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Oh, I think the longest was less than a year, but still at least I was able to, to spend, you know, those first months with them.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] But, uh, I mostly went back to work because I was tired of doing without things.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] You know, the money was the issue.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] But, uh, even now, I would, I would like to not have to work in some ways.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] It, it's kind of pull and tug,
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] on the other hand, I can't imagine just being at home, uh, although I have a lot of interests and a lot of things I would like to pursue.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Uh, still, uh, there's, there's sort of a feeling of accomplishment with having, you know, a job and all that goes with that.
[speaker002:] No, that, that's definitely true. In fact, I, I work out of my home. Um, I'm an accountant,
[speaker001:] Oh.
[speaker002:] and I do taxes and bookkeeping and I, uh, it was, it's a way for me to stay home.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And I mean, I still, unfortunately have to be very disciplined [LAUGHTER] in doing my work at five in the morning and ten o'clock at night,
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] but, uh, but it, it's worked out for, for my family,
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] to have my cake and eat it too, kind of thing.
[speaker001:] Yeah, that's a good deal. Where do you think this is going in the future, I mean, do you think things are going to change, or are we going to keep having to try to juggle all of this?
[speaker002:] Well, I, I hope that they will change uh, but, but I'm, I just, I know it's going to be a slow change. Uh, I, I feel as though a lot of people are going back to just having a one wage earner. I mean I'm just thinking of my circle of people that I know. I know quite a few people who have decided to not have both, both, both, uh, couples, you know, both, uh, of the parents work.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] And yet, uh, I, I we-, I hope to see employer based, you know, helping out.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] You know, child, uh, care centers at the place of employment and, and things like that, that will help out. What do you think, do you think we are,
[speaker001:] I don't,
[speaker002:] setting a trend?
[speaker001:] yeah, I, well I see, I think some people wanting to stay home more and take care of the children.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Uh, and even those who may not do it seem to be spending more time with their kids and really trying harder at making all of the, the family things work.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] Uh, but I don't know if they're going to ever give up their careers, you know. It's sort of like they went to school and they worked so hard to get where they are, I don't know if they want to completely give that up.
[speaker002:] Right, it's a very personal thing.
[speaker001:] But, it would be nice if there could be an in-between, a middle ground somewhere.
[speaker002:] Yeah. I think it's hard though when you talk about, about families and, and raising children because ch-, I think children have a hard time understanding a middle ground. I think they, uh, they need security and yet they, I don't know, I, from speaking from my children, the-, they aren't real flexible [LAUGHTER] when it comes to things like that.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] They, uh, they want to know things are going to be a certain way.
[speaker001:] Well, yeah, I think they, they like a routine of sorts.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh, right. Well, we will see. I, I'm hoping to see more female leadership in our society.
[speaker001:] Well, yes, I, I like the fact that, you know, gradually you're beginning to see women in public office and executive positions, but it's still a long way from being what it ought to be.
[speaker002:] Oh, yes, the, the numbers are still very skewed to say the least.
[speaker001:] Yeah. Okay, well I enjoyed talking to you.
[speaker002:] Okay, you too Ellen.
[speaker001:] All right, good-bye.
[speaker002:] Bye-bye.

[speaker001:] gun control seems to be a rather um timely topic with all that's going on legislation wise
[speaker002:] yes
[speaker001:] and uh the the interesting scale that they assigned it uh the one being a banned and ten being no regulations or totally free I'd have to put myself pretty much in the middle I guess I I don't mind regulating all of the the guns and I would certainly call for a ban on certain types now the the wisdom as to which types that's gonna be a debate forever I would assume uh the method of of controlling it well that's all into how much money you wanna put into the the controls um one point that was made in the house hearings or the the representative who stood up and said that uh you know we can check a guy's credit card instantly but uh we don't wanna check his background and of course those are two different issues as far as privacy goes uh but there's still the the technology exists to to check it if they want
[speaker002:] hm right
[speaker001:] so it's it's it's kind of a uh I guess you got to put a dollar figure on it if you really wanna make that kind of an effort and regulate it like that and then you've got the group the people that decide that there's there's no particular reason to have them at all and you got to balance those against the ones that say there is some sport to it and I guess I would fall more in the the realm that I like the sport issue of it but I I could give it up without too much trouble it's not the world's most pleasurable thing and it costs a bit to do it uh finding ranges and things like that um I have shot a variety of guns for a number of years but it's just it's not
[speaker002:] yes right
[speaker001:] like golf or whatever I mean there are other things that you could go do so uh I I don't see the the joy of shooting is is that much of a driving factor I think uh society could easily swing the scales the other direction just for the sake of safety so the number of kids that tend to get hurt I don't even keep the gun in our house so uh we don't have that problem but uh it's it's a hard hard topic I guess for a lot of people have a lot of hard issue a lot of hard feelings about it
[speaker002:] yes right they do and you boy you can get them on either side and just like you say uh well I think I I guess I'd have to place myself uh uh probably seven or eight because or not wait wait onto no control I'm sorry uh excuse me that uh uh two or three
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] uh I was going the wrong direction um because of we had a neighbor child that was killed by another child
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] because they had a gun in the house and the the father kept the bullets in a separate place but the little boy was five years old and was so intelligent enough to uh he knew where booth both places were loaded the gun and they were playing cowboys and Indians and he shot the other little boy right between the eyes
[speaker001:] boy
[speaker002:] so uh I mean it it destroyed two families uh in just that instant and and I a lot of people say that they need it for protection uh having
[speaker001:] right
[speaker002:] worked at one time in Baltimore or I don't know if you're in a big city are you Dallas yeah that's a big city um then you know that uh uh
[speaker001:] Dallas um-hum yeah
[speaker002:] if you live anywhere real close that uh the safety is uh some people argue that they need a gun to make sure that they aren't going to get shot because of the incidences of break-ins and you know but uh uh we have never had a gun in the house with my children growing up uh I um uh once uh uh knew a fellow that had had been a policeman and he said that if you pull a gun on a robber he's going to assume that you know how to use it well and he's going to you know try to shoot first uh so you know if he's got one um and if not um
[speaker001:] right
[speaker002:] then usually they uh if he's got a knife or whatever they could throw it at you I mean you know they he he said that it it's better not to have especially myself now I'm a widow and uh I so I'm
[speaker001:] right
[speaker002:] uh when my handicapped son is is not at home I'm by myself but uh there's I still won't have a gun in the house because he said it's it's really um playing Russian Roulette if you do uh
[speaker001:] yeah about the only circumstances that they'd be of any value is when you happen to already know that the the person was coming your way if once you're surprised it's too late and and the rare circumstances you know the very few of those burglaries actually occur in such a way that you knew the guy was coming and had time to do anything about it
[speaker002:] that's right that's right right that's right
[speaker001:] and I don't have that problem is I don't use that argument as saying it's worth keeping one and the uh NRA's um claim that the uh the constitutional and the right to bear arms and that whole statement uh it's hard to know the original intent but I I don't see it as that that difficult of a story to believe when the opposition says that uh yeah its the right to to arm a militia and as opposed to just the general public and you have a
[speaker002:] right
[speaker001:] you have a earn a right not just a privilege as it were if you were gonna serve in the militia then you have a right to have that arm but uh or you know there's all sorts of arguments there but I don't even worry about
[speaker002:] that's right I know
[speaker001:] the what the original intent was they didn't have this problem back then so we we change our rights with our social status they're man given rights and they can be taken away by a man so
[speaker002:] no no that's true that that's that's right that's right right
[speaker001:] uh the people that hide behind that I don't worry about they can go live in another country if they want
[speaker002:] well the yeah that's how I feel too I know well even even here where I work uh we have uh a gun club and of course those people are very avid they you know they say there should be no ban that it's not but I can't see why any uh on on the street citizen should be able allowed to be allowed to have a machine gun
[speaker001:] um-hum right
[speaker002:] uh you know when you were talking about maybe what kind of guns it would be hard to decide but there are a few guns that uh just are not uh sport or I mean I don't know too many people that use a machine gun to go sport hunting either so um uh I I think they should have at least some control over over those things um when and when you were speaking about they can check up
[speaker001:] right
[speaker002:] you know on credit cards well I I understand about the privacy act and everything but why can't they check to see if the person who is applying for this gun has had a record or not that to me would not be an unreasonable thing and if they do course
[speaker001:] right
[speaker002:] the argument with the people in the gun club um is that uh well the people that are going to get guns are the ones who are going to steal them anyway
[speaker001:] right
[speaker002:] and so it's not gonna be that they're buying them course some of them do
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] so it it it is a hard question
[speaker001:] tends to tends to strap only the legitimate people most regulation does most it's very difficult to uh legislate uh
[speaker002:] right oh yeah
[speaker001:] crooks or whatever you wanna however you wanna word it so it's well this may be a never ending topic I got a couple of calls waiting on me so I better let you go
[speaker002:] that's right okay well thanks for talking bye-bye now
[speaker001:] okay bye

[speaker002:] okay Ellen what kind of a car do you think you're going to buy
[speaker001:] well as a matter of fact I was thinking about that the other day and uh I really don't know the answer um I would sort of like to uh think about something in the way of uh uh sort of a sporty car but not any not you know a luxury type sporty one but um
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] something that still has a lots of amenities and you know gadgets and things
[speaker002:] oh you do want a lot of that stuff
[speaker001:] yeah well yeah I like I like some of those things they come in really handy
[speaker002:] what kind of uh things are you going to consider you know what uh you said something about the about the well what do you call them you said amenities
[speaker001:] amenities
[speaker002:] that they have but what about um their reputation of the company or the price
[speaker001:] um well of course I guess uh price is always the big consideration but
[speaker002:] it is for me other people don't seem to have the same problem
[speaker001:] yeah  well that's that's a big one in my book but uh um
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] I have preferences for uh for some um makers over others um and I would sort of like to buy American
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] but you know I'm not so totally hung up on that that I wouldn't buy something else how about you
[speaker002:] well um the last car we bought was American because of because of that reason but have not been entirely happy with um several things about the car it doesn't seem like the quality is quite as high as I expected it to be
[speaker001:] oh really
[speaker002:] because several things minor things sort of but still they cost us money um that we didn't feel like we should have had to pay on a car that that was that new
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] you know we bought the car new and after um well well well under two years we had to replace the clutch
[speaker001:] oh
[speaker002:] and they just said well you know clutches are disposable and I said since when brake pads are disposable you know we know that but I never thought a clutch was disposable
[speaker001:] yeah yeah yeah I wouldn't have thought so either
[speaker002:] yeah so that was that was kind of a shock
[speaker001:] oh oh yeah I I guess there's a lot to to think about when you're trying to make that decision
[speaker002:] yeah you know the less actually the less you spend on a car it seems like luxury cars they're called luxury cars even though they're much more expensive like like uh um a Mercedes Benz they don't have the history of breaking down or things like that that would go wrong would definitely not be considered disposable
[speaker001:] right
[speaker002:] you would never think of having to replace the clutch in a Mercedes
[speaker001:] no but then um
[speaker002:] especially not after two years
[speaker001:] no but on the other hand I guess too uh whenever you do have to have some major work done on one of those it costs a fortune
[speaker002:] really oh I don't know
[speaker001:] yeah I've uh worked with a couple of people who have owned uh various years uh Mercedes and
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] even though they do a lot of the work themselves then just buying the parts and everything is is pretty expensive but for them it's it's sort of a hobby too to own them
[speaker002:] yeah what kind of what brand of car are you thinking about buying or like what things are you looking at
[speaker001:] well I haven't really really gotten that far with it um I've always sort of liked General Motors a little bit better than some of the others but uh
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] oh I guess I really don't know
[speaker002:] how come I've been kind of um I guess the commercials are getting to me the Toyota commercials and I know that a lot of people I've I've known that have had Toyotas have been just extremely happy with them that hardly had any problems at all
[speaker001:] yeah yeah that I think that's
[speaker002:] I think they have a really good um quality
[speaker001:] um-hum my uh daughter has owned two different ones and uh you know we've had some work done on them but it's not too bad and the reason one of the reasons we um bought the first one was because a friend of ours had a Toyota that he just really drove for years and years and years and he lived way out in the country so he put a lot of miles on it
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] and you knew it had had been through a whole lot
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] and yet you know it it held up pretty doggone good so
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] I thought they would
[speaker002:] they seem to be really durable
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] so I don't know I'm I'm not ready to buy a new car yet but I don't know if if the next time I'm going to try to to stay with buying something American or if I'm going to go for a little more what I would consider to be a long-term investment
[speaker001:] yeah well and I guess you know you always have to think about things like your gas mileage and stuff like that you know you
[speaker002:] oh it's easy to get gas mileage in this car it gets excellent gas mileage
[speaker001:] yeah yeah that's one of the big throwing cards for some of the foreign ones
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] well we talked long enough
[speaker002:] I think so
[speaker001:] okay well enjoyed it bye-bye
[speaker002:] all righty thanks bye-bye

[speaker001:] Okay.
[speaker002:] Okay.
[speaker001:] I was trying to get my children quiet for a minute.
[speaker002:] Okay.
[speaker001:] [Takes a deep breath] Well, credit cards, boy, that's an easy topic,
[speaker002:] Ye-,
[speaker001:] isn't it [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Yes, it is [LAUGHTER]. It's one we all hold dear and near, I'm sure.
[speaker001:] Oh, yes, yes. I guess I've had some good experience and some bad experience with them.
[speaker002:] Yeah, most of mine's been pretty good, although I'm, I guess I'm like a lot of other people, now, I'm trying to, to pay off my credit cards and, and, uh, I've done pretty good at it. Yeah.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh [NOISE]. Well, I do fairly good until I go in the store and I see something I want [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] You know
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] not need, want.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh, there is a big difference [Voices].
[speaker001:] There's a big difference there.
[speaker002:] Yeah, yeah.
[speaker001:] But most of mine that I use is strictly gasoline.
[speaker002:] Yeah, oh yeah, I, I do that, I do that, but the rest, like I said, the rest of them I've been trying to, to pay off
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] and, uh, get back on a cash basis, except for gas. It's too easy to, to run into the gas station.
[speaker001:] Oh, it sure is
[speaker002:] And,.
[speaker001:] especially when you work out of town and everything, that way [Voices].
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] At least that's for me.
[speaker002:] Yeah, yeah.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] So.
[speaker001:] But yeah, I've, I've talked to some who's really had some bad experience and kind of knock on wood I haven't yet, not bad.
[speaker002:] Yeah, well that's,
[speaker001:] You know, I just, I'm just shocked at the end of the month,
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] to see what damage I have did, but [LAUGHTER],
[speaker002:] Yeah, yeah.
[speaker001:] I try to keep it pretty reasonable.
[speaker002:] Well, I've been pretty lucky in that respect. I don't charge, like I say, I've, I been trying to, to not charge except for emergencies.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And, uh, so, but I haven't really had any bad problems with credit cards. There's, you know, they have, uh, wonderful features, they're there when you need them.
[speaker001:] Yeah, yeah.
[speaker002:] You know, like in emergencies, or whatever.
[speaker001:] And then they have bad drawbacks, too.
[speaker002:] Yeah. It's, it's awfully easy.
[speaker001:] I mean high interest, it's like paying twice.
[speaker002:] That's true, that's true,
[speaker001:] Yes, so,.
[speaker002:] I try to, I did switch to one, uh, sponsored by the credit union, though. That seems to be a pretty low interest.
[speaker001:] Oh, uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Yeah, compared to some of the other ones.
[speaker001:] Yeah, yeah.
[speaker002:] And you don't have an annual fee there, and that helps.
[speaker001:] Oh, yes. Uh, we used to have, you know, like several, but right now, we're just more or less at American Express,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] you know, and that way we can go ahead and pay it off when it comes in.
[speaker002:] Yeah, that's one way to do it, because that, that forces you to pay for it
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] instead of saying, well, I'll just
[speaker001:] Pay fifteen, yeah.
[speaker002:] pay on it this month and [LAUGHTER],
[speaker001:] Yes, I know, yeah.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] And when you pay fifteen dollars a month it sure takes a long time.
[speaker002:] Takes a long time, that's right.
[speaker001:] It sure does.
[speaker002:] And now without the benefits of being able to deduct interest off, off your income tax
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] that's, you know. Of course it's been going down for a number of years, but this is the last year you can take anything. So.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh, yeah.
[speaker002:] So.
[speaker001:] Well, I've enjoyed talking to you.
[speaker002:] Well, I've enjoyed talking to you.
[speaker001:] And maybe we'll get to talk again.
[speaker002:] Okay.
[speaker001:] Okay, bye-bye.
[speaker002:] Bye-bye.

[speaker001:] [Noise] [TV or radio] Okay, what kind of crafts and hobbies do you have?
[speaker002:] Oh, not very many of those at, uh, sometimes I, I play the trumpet, and sometimes I work on trumpet mouthpieces.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And then I have a five year old daughter and we cut out things, kind of, you know, and color and, uh, and, uh, use markers and things like that.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Um, how about you?
[speaker001:] In, well I used to be more into crafts, when I was younger, like high school stuff. I was in four H and I did a lot of latch hook
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] made rugs and stuff. Um, and, uh, I've learned how to crochet, but I don't really know, I mean, I don't do it that much. Not really an indoor hobby type person unless the weather's really bad.
[speaker002:] Um.
[speaker001:] I'd rather be outside.
[speaker002:] Yeah, exactly.
[speaker001:] Um, I used to play trombone [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] I don't know if that was a, not really, I don't play it that much any more, but I, um, what else do I do. Mainly do reading. I don't have a lot of crafty type things I do.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] But, uh, [pause] what are some other things you enjoy?
[speaker002:] I don't know. My, my father is in the, in the antique business.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh [Sniffing].
[speaker002:] And he, uh, he goes around to garage sales and he buys all kinds of, um, china and figurines and statues and stuff.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And, um, there's some stuff that's really for, uh, auto repair. It's called J B Weld
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] and I repaired a, a gasoline tank with it once. But he,
[speaker001:] [Sniffing].
[speaker002:] mixes colors in it. It's an epoxy resin that you mix together.
[speaker001:] Oh, cool.
[speaker002:] And he makes like, the other day he was working on a hand that was shattered on a, a statue that's real small, it's like about maybe the hand's about the size of a cricket.
[speaker001:] Oh, wow.
[speaker002:] And, uh, has, uh, like the forefinger sticking out and the thumb sticking out, and he was repairing that, and, uh, it came out pretty good. It's kind of a, kind of a ivory color all over and
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] and, uh, has some age spots in it, and it looked, you know, just like it, it had been there all the time.
[speaker001:] Huh [sniffing].
[speaker002:] And he fixed some, fixes some bowls that have the cracks or chips in them, and, uh, molds that in. He had a blue, blue bowl a few weeks ago that he, he fixed that way.
[speaker001:] [Sniffing] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] It worked out real well, too. And then,
[speaker001:] Do you ever,
[speaker002:] And
[speaker001:] Huh?
[speaker002:] and then he, uh,
[speaker001:] [Noise].
[speaker002:] he thatches, uh, you know, those, uh, thatched chairs.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] Course that's like that, that, uh, hooking that you were talking about.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] That takes a lot of time.
[speaker001:] That's great that he has a lot of hobbies and stuff.
[speaker002:] Yeah. And he used to paint, um, a long time ago, but I think he's stopped pretty much now.
[speaker001:] Oh [sniffing].
[speaker002:] But outside of, outside of art class in, in school, I, I stopped doing most of that, unless I, I mean, like he has a computer, and I use, um, the graphics
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] um, software on that, [Noise] [Sigh] [pause] to, uh, to do figures and to look at things, you know, see how they work.
[speaker001:] Right. That sounds interesting.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Um, does, does he ever, uh, refinish furniture or anything like that?
[speaker002:] Oh, yeah, sometimes, but it's not one of my favorite things, especially from the vapors, and we had, uh, an entertainment center we did last year. Uh, we [talking] bought it at an, unfinished, uh, furniture place
[speaker001:] Uh-huh [sniffing].
[speaker002:] and sanded it down and, uh, stained it and then lacquered over it [Talking].
[speaker001:] Pretty time consuming, isn't it?
[speaker002:] Oh, yeah.
[speaker001:] But, it's g-, it's nice to have it when you're done, I mean, looks pretty.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh, sure is.
[speaker001:] So, I've done that once but it didn't come out that well.
[speaker002:] Did you use a, did you use a Zar stain?
[speaker001:] Uh, I don't remember. It was, I had my parents buy everything, and I ended up, it was their table, their kitchen table. It came out really dark.
[speaker002:] Um, [pause] they had a, um, well I saw the commercial on T V, and they, and, uh, and the people at the unfinished store recommended it, that's called, it's Z,
[speaker001:] [Sniffing].
[speaker002:] A R [spells out].
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And, uh, it spreads real evenly and it doesn't dry too fast, so it's, if you get too much in one spot you can smooth it out.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] And uh, we,
[speaker001:] [Sniffing].
[speaker002:] put, we put tung oil on it. Kind of made it sticky for a while. But after it dried out, it was, you know, it was real hard, and it was all right.
[speaker001:] I remember it took me a long time, it took me like several months, or several weeks to do it during the summer, and then after I got it done it was pretty dark, and ended up not being real smooth looking. Since I've moved away [LAUGHTER] they've had it redone. So, I kind of, kind of gave that hobby up real quick.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] But, [sigh] I don't know. [Sigh] Like I said, I like doing a lot of outdoor stuff, so [sniffing] but during Four H, I mean they really encouraged to do all kinds of crafty stuff, which is in-, interesting, I like that [Sniffing].
[speaker002:] Uh-huh [NOISE]. Were you in a, were you the Girl Scouts, too or,
[speaker001:] No, well, yeah when I was real young I was for a couple,
[speaker002:] [Noise].
[speaker001:] of years [sneezing]. Excuse me. So, uh, [lipsmack] anyway, it was nice talking to you Dudley.
[speaker002:] Well, it was nice talking to you.
[speaker001:] Have a good day now.
[speaker002:] Okay, you too.
[speaker001:] Bye [Noise] [TV or radio].
[speaker002:] Bye-bye.

[speaker001:] uh well I mean I've had time to think about it because uh we've had uh I I there's been a great deal of difficulty in finding someone to talk to so
[speaker002:] oh okay
[speaker001:] so um I I was thinking about a couple things uh and whether they are serious some things are serious and some aren't I guess the biggest thing that bothers me is
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] is uh not the biggest thing but one of the things that bothers me is the credit information
[speaker002:] uh-huh yes
[speaker001:] uh situation that you uh that you find yourself almost compromised into giving if you want any sort sort of credit extensive extensive checks and
[speaker002:] um-hum um-hum
[speaker001:] and things of that nature when um I I I mean I I don't know if that's an invasion of privacy simply I I do to I do feel it is but I don't know whether some of the questions they ask are legitimate
[speaker002:] uh-huh uh-huh
[speaker001:] uh because they are the ones who are making the profit out of your
[speaker002:] well what's scary is uh about two three four months ago on a Sunday in the Sunday edition of what is called the morning paper here The Dallas Morning News
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] they showed a reporter and a um and a copy editor how they went out and they just took um a fellow in John Q Public in Dallas and all they had was let's see they had his birthday they had something like his birth date the street address um they weren't even sure of the correct spelling of his last name excuse me and it was um very scary to see what they found out I mean they were able to find out what liens he still had against you know two or three houses through a two divorces children's names locations um it was really frightening
[speaker001:] well I guess I guess then it's just the big brother concept of the fact that once you give your social security number there are people I guess who are who are
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] uh actually collecting all this all the time and and profiles are given I understand uh I read the other day that uh these telemarketeers when someone talks to you on the phone
[speaker002:] yeah uh-huh
[speaker001:] uh all all they need now is your telephone number which I guess is involved in this controversy of whether they can reveal your telephone number or not I I I feel that is an invasion of privacy but it
[speaker002:] right uh-huh I do too yeah I don't the other thing I don't like is um in terms of uh like we just moved here from uh Minneapolis and uh
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] to get the the very nice townhouse that we're in you were required by the property management firm that was representing a private landlord you know husband and wife owners um who had never done this before they um asked us for again an astounding amount of information and what we really didn't have the same opportunity you know and I guess that's when I also get upset that if you're going to do it then I want to do it too
[speaker001:] yeah exactly
[speaker002:] um in terms of the credit yeah I know um we're also going through adoption now in for an adoption and I mean after we gave our fingerprints to the FBI you you look at each other yeah you look at each other and say
[speaker001:] yeah my God
[speaker002:] well too late now um so I mean it's it's a matter of anybody can get it any way and how if they really try um
[speaker001:] yeah yeah I I have a particular subject that not everyone agrees with me uh
[speaker002:] uh-huh go ahead
[speaker001:] uh well by by uh I make my living by uh flying airplanes for for a company and uh as a as a uh an airline pilot I have to take random drug testing
[speaker002:] uh-huh uh-hum uh-huh
[speaker001:] I mean it seems to me the public outcry was for that at the time so I when I finish a a certain flight on a random basis I have to
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] uh have a written a drug test and and and that's without I uh probably cause
[speaker002:] uh-huh uh-huh
[speaker001:] and uh a and in the end now I mean they've tested they've spent forty million dollars and they've found uh I think uh in pilots anyway of something like uh
[speaker002:] no it isn't
[speaker001:] uh eighty six thousand tests there's only been two guys have come up uh three guys have come up positive and one of them was a bad test so
[speaker002:] positive for anything see yeah see uh and I just started working well for an electronics firm down here I used to be a reporter and then now I'm in corporate communications and uh part of that excuse me was as a new hire that I had to take a drug test and I had never been asked that and I thought
[speaker001:] yeah yeah drug test right
[speaker002:] um I really didn't like it um I I have very mixed feelings about I don't disagree or agree with you um I think I I think that it's well and you're in that field so I don't know but it's
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] you know we lived in uh Minneapolis when the Northwest Airlines pilot in the Dakotas yeah that hit the fan like uh you uh you're obviously aware of that um
[speaker001:] yeah right yes I am
[speaker002:] I don't know there should be some happy medium in terms of if they're going to do random um I I don't agree with random I guess I would look for a standard in consistency
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] you know in terms of maybe at set intervals so that everybody knows what's going on um I don't see a problem with that I do think I see some level of necessity um in something where people are transporting other people uh only because of the things you've heard about The problem is the reason I feel that way even to a low degree is because it's the old story the minority make it bad for the you know majority um
[speaker001:] yeah I I can understand the public's alarm to it but I guess having done this all my life I knew that there wasn't a problem and and it indeed it has proved out that way but now try to get the damn thing repealed you know
[speaker002:] yeah I'm not alarmed yeah you can't yeah I know it's um
[speaker001:] I guess I feel bad because uh not only that but in some of the instances like you just cited where you have to give your fingerprints I mean what what what happens if you say no If you say no then you're excluded and I doesn't seem the courts
[speaker002:] right right it's a matter and that's um exactly what it is I mean that that kind of screening in general is a matter of exclusion um if we didn't give it we wouldn't go to Romania I mean if you hate to say that but that's the way it is
[speaker001:] yeah that's right it's my feeling also that that that although I I don't know if it's that serious I but that was part of the question
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] I do feel the courts have have held up a great deal of of our privacy I mean particularly look in in some of the in some of the
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] uh I notice in some of the sexual cases they've held up a great deal of privacy which I support of course but it I guess with our fear with crime and maybe airline crashes and things like that it does seem that we've
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] we've slipped and that's eroded or at least those in the market place their everyday life seemed to take that as a signal that you know it's fair game to you you have to answer these questions of course
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] uh I don't know I I feel there has been an erosion and I don't really know how serious it is except I don't like it
[speaker002:] in terms of the privacy yeah that in it and also I agree with that and in the in terms of the question um in terms uh I worked in medical public relations for almost a decade
[speaker001:] um
[speaker002:] and that was pre AIDS and all the other um things that were probably there but just not excuse me labeled and I have a real problem with medical professionals um
[speaker001:] um
[speaker002:] it goes back to the things like drug screening but if it's in any level even with the potential to endangerment um and I think this is much stronger than you know pilots or uh train engineers being screened um the transmission of the AIDS virus
[speaker001:] uh-huh yeah
[speaker002:] um it it that's a real ethical problem I mean I don't I don't have the answer I I you know I mean I think of the young girl in Florida who well yeah that's was she from your part of the country or was she from the young girl that uh contracted AIDS through her dentist allegedly and then they proved it yeah I don't I don't know um I don't know if it's the old story that we are killing ourselves in general or what um
[speaker001:] What was that oh yeah yeah yeah right well I mean it it just take that that step now where where now we feel there's a need to do that and the next thing you know then
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] uh there's always the need to to go and inspect lockers of high school students that
[speaker002:] oh yeah the I guess the question is uh the the thing for me is who sets the parameters or who has the control you know
[speaker001:] yeah I guess so I mean well uh good luck to you you just moved to Texas from Minneapolis
[speaker002:] yeah yeah
[speaker001:] I don't hold out much hope for you I think they'll be a cultural shock I mean I was based there a lot uh several times in the service and I was absolutely flabbergasted at the in in at least in criminal law some of the some of the latitudes that the police had but
[speaker002:] oh it's it's terrible I'm uh very seriously not more than just seriously I'm more than likely going to be going to law school in the fall and yeah if I figure out that's still what I really want to do and
[speaker001:] oh yeah
[speaker002:] the the things I'm finding out are the in terms of things like privacy the way the law is interpreted presented
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] um it's no better than journalism um except in journalism it's words um this is very frightening in that uh oh and in uh in Texas they they do they do not require for instance for prospective adoptive parents
[speaker001:] um
[speaker002:] whether it's domestic or international they're one of only five states that do not require a criminal investigation check yet if you're caught with let's just say um that somebody who's in need not us but somebody who's need of carting um aluminum beer cans around they haven't touched them they haven't drank them they picked them up off the street and they want to take them to a recycling uh resource
[speaker001:] um yeah
[speaker002:] for money or whatever um they've they've been going through a lot of bad publicity here in the last three or four months again um because they've been arresting people like that
[speaker001:] well I mean I don't understand if you if you don't if they don't make a criminal check why do you have to be fingerprinted
[speaker002:] you know because um in our case one is at the state and the other one is at the federal level because you have to deal because you have to deal with the IN yeah because you have to deal with the uh immigration immigration service
[speaker001:] oh I see oh the state doesn't require it well that's kind of that's rather that's rather unusual isn't it
[speaker002:] yeah it is it's uh the whole thing is I mean there's again there's no consistency you know like in your in terms of you being a pilot and being tested randomly um I can't see why after a certain number of years or after a certain time frame they can't do it at an interval or you know I mean there just
[speaker001:] well I guess I guess the extension of that is why why not the next thing you know we'll just stop a random amount of motorists and then if we really think that drugs are a problem we can randomly stop anybody on the street
[speaker002:] they they do that in Texas
[speaker001:] oh they do
[speaker002:] they don't do it for drugs what they do is they check to see if you've got uh current insurance or they check to to see if you're permits are
[speaker001:] yeah well there's there's all sorts of scare tactics I guess to to invade our privacy and
[speaker002:] yeah I know and it's kind of um what's the word I want I don't it's just to me it's just frightening you know I mean the old uh I'm old enough now where George Orwell uh way past the time
[speaker001:] yeah I just going to say nineteen eighty four is come and is come and gone but it's here
[speaker002:] yeah yeah it's exactly true I mean I
[speaker001:] and the computers of course helps that The computer abilities store that information
[speaker002:] well look at what we're talking now I mean it's look how we're talking now I mean you wonder ultimately what a network of stranger you know

[speaker002:] so let's talk about the uh wonderful abuses in the State of Pennsylvania of personal property taxes whereby you can purchase something mail order and after the fact the State of Pennsylvania can find out about it and send you a bill for the sales tax appropriate to that item that you purchased as well as interest and penalties from the time that you bought it what do you think is Pennsylvania kind of out of line there
[speaker001:] well actually I don't think they're out of line Devil's Devil's advocate possibly but it you are trying to avoid paying taxes and whether whether or not you agree with that law it you're still circumventing it you are legal in in your circumvention of that law
[speaker002:] what what if you're not doing it in order to circumvent the law though I mean what if you don't even realize that you're subject to paying um income tax on something that you purchase mail order
[speaker001:] uh really I I I don't think that's a valid argument I think that most people are quite aware they're not paying that six percent sales tax um some naturally some some things you just can't find in your local KMart or or um Bryn Mawr stereo dealer um but then then then why not pay pay the sales tax to Pennsylvania corporations have to why should an individual just because it's just because the state can't really find out about it be able to avoid paying sales tax
[speaker002:] well I mean it seems to me that generally at least in my own experience when I purchase something mail order it's not to circumvent paying sales tax to the State of Pennsylvania it's because I'm sorry the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania uh it's because I I can't find the item that I want at a competitive price anywhere in my local area so I go outside the area for that
[speaker001:] yes
[speaker002:] and I think that it's not my responsibility to police myself and pay Pennsylvania what they believe they are owed even though you know the revenue stream went to another state I don't I don't think that that's my responsibility as a as a conscientious consumer
[speaker001:] I I'll agree it it's not your responsibility but is but is it also legal for you to do that what what from from what I understand from various various various net readings it it it the federal government is going to try to legislate a more aggressive enforcement of state tax schemes um in into place in the next few years it is it is a lost revenue stream right now and states can can use all the revenue they can get with some with something like that will do your arguments still apply
[speaker002:] well I think that if if policy is established and if a mechanism is put into place to promote the collection of taxes in this fashion then I don't argue with it because it's not a burden on the consumer to remember that oh I bought this out of state I need to Xerox the receipt and make out a check for six percent and send it to Pennsylvania
[speaker001:] which is exactly what businesses do at the present
[speaker002:] right but the point is is that businesses do that the business that you purchase the thing from is responsible for collecting the appropriate sales tax and forwarding it to the state in question that's a cost of doing business the burden shouldn't be placed on the consumer
[speaker001:] and I I I was actually talking about businesses purchasing something mail order and then having having to pay sales tax on it
[speaker002:] ah
[speaker001:] that's my understanding of the way um the way it works usually the the person ordering it doesn't pay but the accounting department will uh suck up all the bills at the end of the month and realize how much they have to pay and there reasons there are some some substantial nasty penalties um if you if businesses try to avoid that
[speaker002:] uh do you mean businesses from the point of view as of of selling things to a consumer and then being responsible for the sales tax
[speaker001:] a as if no businesses um if
[speaker002:] or purchasing
[speaker001:] purchasing things mail order if I if I'm a computer consulting firm and I see these this great deal on forty eighty six motherboards uh from from say Utah um I I might buy the motherboards from Utah but then still have to pay some Pennsylvania sales tax my apartment accounting department will at the end of the month uh I think that I think that's the way things work in Pennsylvania and I know they work that way in uh say here in DC
[speaker002:] yeah see I'm unfamiliar with that because I don't I never see that end of the business
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] so my only experience has been from the point of view of a consumer um but if that's the case if the business is responsible for policing themselves then I think some well defined mechanisms need to be in place so that um the opportunity for to forget that you owe sales tax for something uh can be avoided
[speaker001:] that's true is is a real a big hole does exist right now uh in that consumers can just say oh I I forgot that there there is no well defined mechanism at all and and that it is a a a loss I I think is that the federal government will try to establish a mechanism just just to do just that in order in order to gain the revenue that's being lost um and I I don't know if I agree with that but it but

[speaker001:] say you did uh starters and Bendix springs such as that on an old one
[speaker002:] yeah and uh helped my wife replace some carburetors
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] some that she had to uh um label everything
[speaker001:] she had to label everything what was she driving
[speaker002:] yeah because it was a Cadillac
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] and they uh well they quit making those the Quadrajet carburetor and they quit making it
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] they rebuilt it and it never did never did run right again
[speaker001:] yeah Quadrajet not real easy to get rebuilt just right
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] um what were you replacing the starters and Bendix drives on
[speaker002:] um a Maverick and also um a Chrysler station wagon before that
[speaker001:] yeah did you replace just the uh the Bendix on the Chrysler station wagon or the whole starter
[speaker002:] uh the I'm replacing the two or three starters on the Chrysler
[speaker001:] yeah the starters are kind of fragile
[speaker002:] they yeah and the
[speaker001:] especially if you need a tune up
[speaker002:] um-hum they kept saying that the Chrysler that's what Chryslers did is they wore out starters you know
[speaker001:] yeah well if if if they start real easy you know you just hit the key and it starts up and when it's properly tuned up that starter will last for a long time
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] see they built that starter so it'd fit every V-8 and all the slant sixes that they built in like thirty five years
[speaker002:] right
[speaker001:] they all take the exact same starter they'll interchange completely I mean completely one starter will fit all of them so they've got a whole lot of torque but to do that they did uh they use an underdrive system where they geared it down so its motor spins really fast
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] so it's got to spin for very long it's kind of tough on the bushings usually what goes is the bushings you take a little time replace the bushings you still got a perfectly good starter
[speaker002:] yeah right
[speaker001:] but uh most places don't put don't rebuild them with with good with good enough bushings so it's you know
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] after you get rebuilt one you have a tendency to go through them pretty quickly especially if you need a tune-up
[speaker002:] no
[speaker001:] anyway what are you driving now
[speaker002:] um my Chrysler van and it's it's pretty maintenance free you know and uh and beginning the year last year and drove a Chevrolet Cavalier station wagon and it didn't give me any trouble at all
[speaker001:] that's good
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] what is it a late model set Chrysler van
[speaker002:] it's a eighty seven
[speaker001:] yeah one of the little minivans
[speaker002:] um-hum yeah is it
[speaker001:] do you like the way it rides and such
[speaker002:] uh rides or runs
[speaker001:] rides rough
[speaker002:] it yeah well yeah it rides rides rough it runs good you know I kind of it took me a while to get used to a four cylinder engine
[speaker001:] yeah yeah
[speaker002:] you have to kind of wait for it especially when you get on the highway
[speaker001:] yeah right now without getting some of the sportier models uh the four cylinders aren't real peppy
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] but uh they're starting to change that out in the last couple of years too
[speaker002:] you driven American cars all
[speaker001:] uh see I've driven one import uh I drove a Volkswagen Beetle for a while about a month um in that month I think I put uh three oil coolers on it um every time I turned around I was having trouble with it everything else I ever owned was American built uh mostly older cars um I've been a mechanic well I worked starting working my father's service station when I was about uh twelve
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] so I've been around cars a lot but uh driven a lot of old Pontiacs my first three cars were uh seventy model Pontiacs a GTO and a Bonneville and a station wagon and I had a couple of Chryslers had a Super B for a while with a four forty in it it a lot of fun
[speaker002:] but uh not not much gas mileage though
[speaker001:] I don't know gas mileage wasn't too bad I got about seventeen
[speaker002:] oh wow
[speaker001:] well till you got crazy with it you know you get the four barrel all worked up and suddenly it it it drops off fast but
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] long as you didn't spin the tires too much or or spend too much time with the secondaries kicked in it it didn't do too bad on gas didn't have to work very hard to move the car around
[speaker002:] now do you think since they started with electronic ignition that it improves the way the car runs
[speaker001:] oh yeah yeah definitely
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] you know the my last GM car was a seventy Chevy station wagon uh it still had the points and condenser in it when I rebuilt the engine on that about a hundred and thirty thousand on the car
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] I uh pulled that old points distributor out and got a an HEI distributor electronic distributor and put into it

[speaker001:] Well, Wayne, I, uh, feel very strongly about parents doing things with their children, and making time available even sometimes when time isn't available. How do you feel about it?
[speaker002:] Well, yeah, I feel much the same way. I've, uh, two kids right now
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] one is two and a half and one's nine months, and, uh, that age, of course, everything you do they're trying to learn to do, and so, uh, it's important for you to spend time doing the things that you want them to learn, you know, that, that they need to learn at the age, you know
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] reading, and, uh, reading and playing nice with others, and that sort of thing.
[speaker001:] Yeah, we went through this with our children, and now with our grandchildren, and I've always tried to do things with them, uh, like, when you're at the little league, helping out even though I'm not a good athlete myself, I was able to help the coach in, in just controlling the kids, if nothing else, and we've always, uh, oh tried to take our children and no-, now at this age our grandchildren to see and do things that otherwise they might not be able to. I think that's just part of their overall educational process, is to get out and see and do things.
[speaker002:] Right, uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Yeah, yeah. And so, it's uh, we have, uh, lived several places around the U S and we have, where we've lived, we've taken them to see and do things of interest and of historical significance in the area, like when we lived in Tennessee, we, we took them to Washington, D C to see all the capitol and, and things like that when they were small. And it's just, uh, it's helps, I think, the children to, when they're learning in school, to say, well, I've been there and I've seen that.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Yeah, So, uh, that's the type,
[speaker002:] Yeah, it certainly does, because, uh, you know, the things in the books seem so dead to the kids, you know, unless they've actually been there or whatever, because I remember our family, well, we, we, we went everywhere. And, uh, seeing New England and, uh, being on Plymouth Rock and stuff like that was
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] really made the whole thing more, uh, visual.
[speaker001:] Yes.
[speaker002:] And we could, uh, read the things in the history books and understand what they said, when it was like, we need food, we need to raise food quickly
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] because this place gets very cold very soon.
[speaker001:] Yeah, we've, uh,
[speaker002:] [Cough].
[speaker001:] [Throat clearing] gone through that, uh, I remember my parents didn't do all those type things, and so I made a special effort with my children to do things like that. And even now with my grandchildren, I feel it's a very important thing to be done.
[speaker002:] Right, because if, uh, kids don't look up to you, or, or, ca-, can't feel they can spend time with you, they're going to find someone else
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] and uh, you know, nowadays there's a lot of people out there that you don't want your kid to, emulating or whatever.
[speaker001:] Yeah. Well, I can remember one of the things I'm most proud of is, uh, when my son was, I think it was in the sixth grade, they had to write a, a little brief autobiography of themselves, and about what they had done and what they wanted to do, and I was very proud when my son wrote that he wanted to, uh, have a family and be able to help coach little league and do things like his dad had done with him.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] A real point of pride with me.
[speaker002:] Yeah, that is nice.
[speaker001:] Yeah [cough] excuse me, it sounds like we both have colds.
[speaker002:] Yeah, well, it's, um, well, it's, uh, ten o'clock here in Falls Church, Virginia.
[speaker001:] Oh.
[speaker002:] So that the only reason I'm home is because I'm home with a cold [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Oh, well, we're
[speaker002:] And the wife says, Well, you need something to do, talk to a guy on the phone.
[speaker001:] Yeah, well, I'm sitting here on the ninth floor of an office building on the north side of Dallas, Texas.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] So, we're kind of far apart here.
[speaker002:] Yeah [cough].
[speaker001:] This is a very interesting program I, I heard about here on this, and when I signed up for it, it, uh, looked like it could be, make a real contribution in participating.
[speaker002:] Right. Yeah, I'm an electrical engineer by trade
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] uh, here in Virginia. Likewise, we, uh, we do some projects every now and then. We like to get support from, uh, other, other companies as well.
[speaker001:] Yeah. I'm an accountant presently working as a contractor liquidating a failed savings and loan [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] So, Trying to work myself out of a job [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] But, it's been an interesting, uh, roughly, oh, nine months here, and, uh
[speaker002:] Oh.
[speaker001:] again, this is our home area. We've lived here about seventeen years, and it's, uh, we enjoy living here. It's where we originally started out, and we've lived up north for a while in Chicago and over in Tennessee. So, wound up back about two hundred miles aware, away from where we started out.
[speaker002:] Yep [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Well, uh, that's about all I can think to talk about right now. It's been a pleasure talking with you.
[speaker002:] Okay.
[speaker001:] Thank you.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] Bye.
[speaker002:] Bye-bye.

[speaker001:] In, in the light of what has been happening lately with the doctors that I know and lawyers and whatnot, I think national health insurance is a way to throw a lot of money at a very small problem.
[speaker002:] Do you? Why?
[speaker001:] Why? Well, if you took half the money that they would spend in the state of Texas for health insurance and gave it to qualified students to, so they could become doctors, the problem would go away.
[speaker002:] You think the problem is not enough doctors?
[speaker001:] I think the problem is that the doctor v-, doctors have conspired to limit the number of doctors, and that the lawyers have conspired to make sure that if you are a doctor, you are going to pay high premiums on your h-, uh, unemp-, I mean, on your liability.
[speaker002:] Gosh, I really have a different point of view on this [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Oh?
[speaker002:] Well, because I'm a nurse
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] for one thing.
[speaker001:] And you think there are plenty of doctors?
[speaker002:] Oh, yeah, I don't think there is a shortage of doctors and I do know that O B, which is my field
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] the doctors' health in-, the doctors' malpractice insurance is over two hundred thousand dollars a year
[speaker001:] It's astronomical.
[speaker002:] that deliver babies. Now they can't doing anything about that. I don't think they're in a conspiracy. I think it's our fault, because we as people just sue them.
[speaker001:] No, people don't sue
[speaker002:] People are very sue, sue conscious.
[speaker001:] lawyers sue. If you put a ten thousand dollar cap on the amount of money that a lawyer could make from a law suit against a doctor
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] they wouldn't sue a one of them.
[speaker002:] Well, that's probably true, too.
[speaker001:] You know.
[speaker002:] But people are very conscious of how much money they can get real fast these days.
[speaker001:] Well, sure.
[speaker002:] And, so,
[speaker001:] But, you know, when you think about reasonableness, now, I believe that a law suit should have some foundation in the tort theory. You know what tort theory is?
[speaker002:] No.
[speaker001:] Well, a tort is when you do something wrong.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] Well, it, uh, an O B G Y N doctor cannot control the fetus in the womb a hundred percent.
[speaker002:] That's right.
[speaker001:] If the baby is born dead, well, that happens.
[speaker002:] Well,
[speaker001:] If, if they have complications and,
[speaker002:] It depends.
[speaker001:] Well, I know, I mean, there are guys that are real slobs, but you know, there are also people out there that are really doing their job. And the people that are really doing their job are paying for everybody else.
[speaker002:] Well, that's true, they are
[speaker001:] You know,
[speaker002:] because doctors are performing many more tests.
[speaker001:] [Throat clearing].
[speaker002:] Many of them are unnecessary, they are doing so many C sections
[speaker001:] Just to prevent a
[speaker002:] just to
[speaker001:] a law suit.
[speaker002:] prevent. Because they have all these monitors now and if anything looks even a little bit funny
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] their only safety precaution is to go in and get that baby, {C and
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] so } it's costing more all around in health insurance
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] for tests, for surgery, for longer hospital stay.
[speaker001:] See, I believe
[speaker002:] So, it's terrible.
[speaker001:] that there, there is a system already in place for health care.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] You know, they have indigent health care. You show up at Parkland bleeding
[speaker002:] You'll get it.
[speaker001:] and they'll fix you.
[speaker002:] That's true.
[speaker001:] You know.
[speaker002:] In fact, you'll get it at Presbyterian if you show up there, too.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] And we have that happen. We have patients that go through Parkland
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] through the clinic and at the last minute, they come to us. Well
[speaker001:] Uh-huh [faint].
[speaker002:] uh, we can't turn them away. So,
[speaker001:] Yeah, I think that if you just wrote the lawyers out of the equation
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] the problem would pretty much evaporate.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] I'm for that. I've been through a two year divorce where the only one that came out ahead was my lawyer, so
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] I'd like to wipe them all out [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Well, I, I happen to know a few and I even claim one as a friend.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] He's a divorce attorney.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] But,
[speaker002:] He better not be mine [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] I think he'll go nameless for the, for the purposes of this conversation. But I also know an, uh, O B G Y N who has stopped practicing.
[speaker002:] Yeah, some they do.
[speaker001:] Uh, he just said,
[speaker002:] They stop their O B at least.
[speaker001:] Yeah, I mean, he's not going to deliver any more babies
[speaker002:] Right,
[speaker001:] ever.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] His malpractice was five hundred thousand dollars a year.
[speaker002:] That's incredible.
[speaker001:] And, you know, he said, I had to, he had to ear-, gross two million to take home as much as his malpractice.
[speaker002:] Yeah. And most of them are very sincere. Most of them do the
[speaker001:] Yeah [faint].
[speaker002:] best they can. They are human.
[speaker001:] This,
[speaker002:] Occasionally
[speaker001:] This guy is Catholic.
[speaker002:] something will go wrong.
[speaker001:] Yeah, I mean, you know,
[speaker002:] Well, you can be human and Catholic.
[speaker001:] Yeah, I know you can be human and Catholic,
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] but, you're not likely to find somebody who is going to, you know, have a less conscientious effort.
[speaker002:] Yeah, no
[speaker001:] I mean,
[speaker002:] most of them do. I really believe that. From dealing with doctors, dealing with lawyers, there is no doubt in my mind who is more conscientious.
[speaker001:] Well, you know, who is getting rich? Insurance companies.
[speaker002:] Yeah, they are.
[speaker001:] You know, if you were able to write a malpractice insurance that would negate any financial obligation on the part of the doctor over and above the insurance, say, say you have malpractice insurance and a kid dies or is malformed or,

[speaker001:] Okay, we're energized.
[speaker002:] Okay.
[speaker001:] Um, painting, interesting. Uh, the guy called me, when she called me, the computer called me, I thought that they were reading my mind. I'm in the middle of, um, going out for bids to have my house painted.
[speaker002:] Oh.
[speaker001:] Uh, painting is not hard to do, uh,
[speaker002:] No.
[speaker001:] as long as it's not in, not to the point of where it 's, uh, needs to be scraped and bl-, peeling,
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] and our house is not but it's starting to bleed through and burn through because the paint's real cheap and it's just a hassle to go through it so I'm looking for the easy way out.
[speaker002:] Yeah, uh, I know. Di-, is easy to find pa-, uh, painters to do this for you?
[speaker001:] It's easier to find painters, but you have to be, you have to be aware of what, uh, how messy they can get and are they going to put on a good, a good two coats, and are they,
[speaker002:] Ri-, are you talking,
[speaker001:] going to caulk,
[speaker002:] outside or inside?
[speaker001:] Exterior.
[speaker002:] Exterior, yeah.
[speaker001:] Yeah. Uh, interior's not so bad because it's more fun, it's more, c-, but yeah,
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] outside you have high peeks,
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] and those kind of things, it can be a real issue.
[speaker002:] Well, when we've painted, um, right now our house doesn't have to have the same kind of exterior painting there, it's more trim because it has some of the old asbestos shingles,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] on the back and there's some sort of stone or something in the front so there isn't as much wood that has to be painted. Um, but, i-, it, the problem is that it hits, the sun hits it. So preparing is a real problem,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] you've got to prepare it well or else it will flake.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Um,
[speaker001:] Here they, some of the home builders are, they don't put brick on the side of your house just to save money so they put up, uh, a quarter inch Masonite, basically, and they painted it kind of like a spun of a sorts so it's real cheap. And, uh, uh, I've had thirteen hundred dollar bid and I, as low as five hundred and forty dollars so it's,
[speaker002:] Wow.
[speaker001:] just a matter of, it's,
[speaker002:] that's quite a range.
[speaker001:] Oh, there one guy brags about his piece of equipment he's using and the drop cloths and all that kind crap and I'm so much worried about that as what,
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] I don't want it all over the brick and windows and,
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] Yeah, which might be a bigger problem than it would be, uh,
[speaker001:] Oh, sure.
[speaker002:] Yeah, absolutely [breathing].
[speaker001:] So y'all, you haven't had any, any jobs painted in your house or recently.
[speaker002:] No, we 've have, uh, done a little painting ourselves, um, we painted the bedroom, uh, well within the last t-, couple of months,
[speaker001:] That's fun.
[speaker002:] and we have, we have some more that need to be done,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] but the, the problem that we've, we've owned this house almost five years now, and, um, when we bought it the, um, it had been vacant for a while because the family will retired, but the daughter was a real estate agent and she was selling it and it's been lived in briefly by her before she bought her town house. So she told us that the house had been, uh, professionally painted recently. And it looked pretty good, you know, the, uh, the interior walls all basically white, but they obviously had been done without to much, uh, wear afterward. The only problem was when we started having the movers move the furniture in we identified various rooms by pieces of masking tape on the wood-, uh, the door frames,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] when we took the masking tape off half the painted came with it.
[speaker001:] Uh, that's not very,
[speaker002:] Big long strips. So what had happened is that professional painters had not prepared the surface properly. And some of still has to be redone.
[speaker001:] Oh, they just painted over varnished wood.
[speaker002:] Yeah,
[speaker001:] Oh, my,
[speaker002:] well, no actually it had been, uh, it would have been, it had been a repaint job.
[speaker001:] Um.
[speaker002:] But they had not, either they had painted with the wrong kind of paint over top or they hadn't really roughed it up or whatever they, because it was woodwork so it looked as if it had been painted,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] correctly with, you know, uh, an enamel or something, but, um, it had not, either that or it had not been prepared underneath and it was greasy or something,
[speaker001:] Sure.
[speaker002:] it comes off in strips, I mean not even little bit. So we still have some of that trim work to do because we put it off [LAUGHTER] all this time,
[speaker001:] Oh, no.
[speaker002:] we know what a job it's going to be because you almost have to strip the whole thing,
[speaker001:] Um.
[speaker002:] in order to do it again.
[speaker001:] I wish you good luck.
[speaker002:] Okay [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Thank you very much.
[speaker002:] Thank you.
[speaker001:] Bye-bye.
[speaker002:] Bye.

[speaker001:] Okay.
[speaker002:] Okay.
[speaker001:] Universal health insurance, right?
[speaker002:] That's right.
[speaker001:] Uh, *all 3 utts should be separate slash units
[speaker002:] What would we like to say [LAUGHTER]. I think,
[speaker001:] Well, I think universal health insurance, like national health, like what Canada has,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Is that what you're, you're thinking the subject is about?
[speaker002:] I think that's what the subject is about.
[speaker001:] Did you read, uh, the article in the paper today about this particular subject?
[speaker002:] In the Dallas, the MORNING TIMES?
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] I guess I did not.
[speaker001:] Uh, the state of Washington and the state of Minnesota is, uh, going to begin testing a program, a state funded program for citizens of those two states and there's fourteen other, uh, states that are considering it. Least according to the article in the paper this morning. I think it's a trend that's, that's, that's, uh, probably may go nationwide eventually because I think national health is something that we all need. It's getting to a point that you have to have it, you have to have some form of health insurance.
[speaker002:] Well, it's been interesting that we,
[speaker001:] Extremely expensive, though.
[speaker002:] Yes. So we live in a society, though, where everyone if you ask them on polls, will, uh, say that they think that everyone has a right to health care.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And yet, I don't think we've ever quite decided who's really supposed to pay for it.
[speaker001:] Well, that's the thing, you know, uh, unfortunately the ones that currently pay and pay the premiums for health insurance are, are paying for the people that don't have health insurance.
[speaker002:] Which is why people are talking about [LAUGHTER], we ought to just admit it perhaps
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] and then try and somehow subsidize it in a way that's more fair.
[speaker001:] I don't think you, uh,
[speaker002:] You have health insurance?
[speaker001:] Yes, I do.
[speaker002:] Through your company?
[speaker001:] Uh, through my company, yes. But I have been in a situation, uh, recently where I was laid off from a position as a sales manager of a company and was off work for about a year and my wife developed cancer. We didn't have any
[speaker002:] Oh, my goodness.
[speaker001:] insurance. And it was a
[speaker002:] That's must have been hard [breathing].
[speaker001:] go to Parkland type situation.
[speaker002:] How was your care at Parkland?
[speaker001:] Uh, because it was a life threatening situation, it was very good. Uh, as it, as it turned out one of the top, uh, people, or one of the top doctors in the state that is involved in cancer treatment was at Parkland.
[speaker002:] But, yet, Parkland is not free, either.
[speaker001:] No, it's not free, but, uh,
[speaker002:] Is it affordable?
[speaker001:] It's, it's a situation that because I didn't have any insurance and I was on unemployment, it was paid by the county.
[speaker002:] So you did have a good experience.
[speaker001:] I had a bad experience as it turned out. Uh, I was fortunate that there was Parkland.
[speaker002:] Is your wife better, I hope?
[speaker001:] Uh, no she passed away.
[speaker002:] I'm real sorry.
[speaker001:] That's all right.
[speaker002:] Sure. *listen; is this a question?
[speaker001:] That happens.
[speaker002:] It does happen, but it's very sad.
[speaker001:] Yeah, but in any event, uh, I'm in favor of national health.
[speaker002:] Well
[speaker001:] If I had
[speaker002:] so am I.
[speaker001:] to vote for it.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] Actually, uh, I'm a pediatrician
[speaker001:] Oh, is that right?
[speaker002:] and I feel very strongly about, uh, children, and, uh, developed very strong feelings about this during our measles epidemic
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] last year.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Where we certainly proved that we're not doing a very good job with preventive health care among children and particularly the children who need it most. So, uh, I'm really quite active in trying to, uh, be proactive at least for children's issues. It's very complex, very complicated, but, uh, I strongly believe that all children have a right to immunization, glasses, hearing aids [LAUGHTER], basic health benefits.
[speaker001:] Well, I, when I grew up and I grew up in south central Kansas, uh, we had, and my mom worked for the health department, the county health department and we had x-rays every year, we had a dentist come to our school and, uh, check our teeth once a year at least. Uh, we had all our flu shots taken care of, our measles, mumps, rubella and all that other stuff.
[speaker002:] Um.
[speaker001:] And, uh, when my children were growing up, we didn't have that. We had to pay for it, which I wasn't opposed to paying for it. I had the money to pay for it, but I'm sure that there were people that don't.
[speaker002:] Well, and the costs have, so much has gone up so much. The cost of immunizations for example, uh, and just the legal [breathing], the legal benefits, uh, that has really forced people into doing a lot of things unnecessarily, et cetera.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] So, well, I don't know, it's, it is interesting, in case you didn't know, Texas leads the nation in uninsured children. Thirty-one percent of all Texas children
[speaker001:] Did not know that.
[speaker002:] do not have insurance and are not on Medicaid. So, uh, one out of every three children has nothing to reimburse them for their health care. And I work in the children's Parkland system and it's pretty overwhelming to me.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] But, uh, it's pretty hard to be indigent and to be dependent upon indigent health care systems in Dallas county.

[speaker001:] So, child care, your views.
[speaker002:] Uh, well, we only have one child right now and another one on the way and right now I'm, I'm all with her during the day. I, if I was looking for outside care I probably would stay away from professional child care centers and try to find, if I was close to home, relatives or people with it is same values and possibly religious faith or something similar so that she would be raised in an environment that would be similar to what we would have in our own homes as, as parents.
[speaker001:] And what religious faith?
[speaker002:] Uh, Latter Day Saints.
[speaker001:] Oh
[speaker002:] So
[speaker001:] that's, that's good.
[speaker002:] so that's what I would try to do. With a teaching background I've, um, had a little bit of experience with the child day care type situations but I've seen some good ones and I've seen some really bad ones.
[speaker001:] Uh, they do seem to be at the outside edge of both extremes don't they?
[speaker002:] Uh-huh, and everything in between, yeah, in most states there's nothing to regulate them, * This would seem to be 2 or even 3 slash units
[speaker001:] And,
[speaker002:] and so,
[speaker001:] whenever they are they seem to regulate the good toward the bad instead of bad toward the good.
[speaker002:] Right. By trying to get them to conform to concern standards they, uh, kind of, uh, eliminate a lot of the, uh,
[speaker001:] Better situations.
[speaker002:] Yeah. The, the, uh, what am I trying to think of that, [pause] not the imagination but the creativity in, in the situation and so,
[speaker001:] Yeah, yeah that's, that's very well phrased.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Uh, so, have you ever used outside child care?
[speaker002:] No, I haven't. We've had like people come in and baby-sit for an hour or two but I've never had, um,
[speaker001:] Real day care.
[speaker002:] Right. She's, she's not even a year yet, so,
[speaker001:] Uh
[speaker002:] we haven't been in, you know, a lot of need yet.
[speaker001:] our step daughter's ten now
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and most of the day care has been provide for by Grandma.
[speaker002:] I like that situation, that's usually real good [LAUGHTER]. * 2 slash units?
[speaker001:] But, quite honestly what I believe to be the best day care situation was while we lived up, the Pass of Woodland Park
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] there was, uh, ex-school teacher that, uh, did a small amount of before school and after school, you know, kindergartners, or half dayers
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] in her home [pause] and they would read and play,
[speaker002:] Have a relative struct-, a structured,
[speaker001:] seem to be,
[speaker002:] activities and not just, you know, stick them in a corner and say you're on your own.
[speaker001:] Uh, yeah, and, uh, despite our beliefs, she was, uh, one of the more, uh, [pause] Charismatic Christian faiths
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and it worked out wonderfully.
[speaker002:] Yeah. I know that, uh, that I guess if you have the opportunity to pick and choose and you've got the time and that, uh, I don't know if the resources are the proper term, you know, just the, the know, knowledge of who's a available, then you could probably find some really good care.
[speaker001:] Uh, yeah, but I don't know that it would be state approved.
[speaker002:] That's true. You can get somebody maybe willing to baby-sit but actual, you know, that's sometimes different, done on a different scale. I have even considered, you know, baby-sitting myself, I have a teaching degree, and, uh, thought well, you know, I could structure and then for one reason or other decided not to, but I think if you take more than three children in, well, that was how it was this Virginia, we've recently moved here to Texas, but in Virginia I think if you take more than three children in on more than a several hours a day bases you have to be licensed.
[speaker001:] I, now I don't know what the current Texas laws are but I, but I do know that the license doesn't seem to, uh, [pause] guarantee quality.
[speaker002:] Yeah, a lot of times you might just need to go now and feel, file for it just like a business. You may not have to prove any type of qualification for it I don't,
[speaker001:] Uh, now here I believe that child care meets, by in large, certain standards for, uh, balanced food, if they provide food, cleanliness, [pause] and levels of supervision
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] levels being defined as number of working adults for number of children
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] but, * I'd definitely call this an incomplete slash unit.
[speaker002:] That's, uh, kind of a minimum there that you're getting. Your covering basic care there and not all the extras that most people would like to see done with there children, you know, like the educational activities, the supervised play and so forth.
[speaker001:] Yeah, * See note on A.49 above uh, my wife is, uh, agnostic and I'm, uh, a backsliding Presbyterian
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] I like that term [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] and, uh, [pause] get, I really believe that this Charismatic care, or the Charismatic belief when emphasized on care, or semi Charismatic I might say
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] was quite good.
[speaker002:] Yeah, it was a good influence for your daughter, uh.
[speaker001:] Yes, very
[speaker002:] Well, that's good.
[speaker001:] and, and, uh, [pause] the care is what I guess you should emphasize in the term child care instead of the child.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh. Yeah, a little bit of love and, and attention is what most of them need. You know, even if it's not a real educated program you can have good educational program and, and,
[speaker001:] And not have any care.
[speaker002:] Right. And, and that's not certainly what you want for your child or what you would give your child yourself and so,
[speaker001:] And I'm not sure that really child care per se should instill any education per se. Do you know had a I'm saying?
[speaker002:] Well, even educated play, uh, supervised play, can teach without, and I'm not saying talking about sitting down and teaching them math or, or, or something like that but just kind of promoting social skills and, uh, uh, you know, like my, my child that, she want be an only child for long, but, you know, she was an only child, or maybe your daughter,
[speaker001:] Proper interface.
[speaker002:] not having, yeah, yeah, just,
[speaker001:] It's just, just correctness of, of [pause] social skills, if you will.
[speaker002:] Right, those basic things that, uh, they would, that, you know, you would be a little bit of, uh, I don't know if manners is a good term or not but,
[speaker001:] [Breathing].
[speaker002:] you know, dealing with other through proper mannerisms and politeness and so forth, you know, that sort of thing, you'd want your child to learn that, from the experience of someone else, certainly you wouldn't want your child's day care person to yell at them and scream at them and say do this, do that, you know, you'd want them it promote politeness and niceness, you know, the things that you would want any child to learn and,
[speaker001:] [Breathing].
[speaker002:] the reason, that's done through example, you know, not an actual sit down learn situation so,
[speaker001:] Uh, yeah, uh, it's a very broad issue.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh, it is [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] And, [pause] you know, it's a shame but most people doing, child care earn almost no money. They operate at, you know, the owner of the chi-, of a, you know, a large child care facility now,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] we're not talking somebody that does six kids,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] in their home or three or whatever.
[speaker002:] Somebody that doesn't really put a lot of overhead whatever into it. You mean somebody that has an actual establishment.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Their employees earn almost nothing.
[speaker002:] Yeah. I know I, I did that for summer [LAUGHTER] so I can, I can vouch for that [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] And that's really, really a shame too because, [pause] do you and your husband both work.
[speaker002:] No, just he does I'm, I'm here during the day with her.
[speaker001:] Well, that's wonderful if, if you can make it that way.
[speaker002:] Well, we, we decided to, we live on a lesser budget so that we have that, that's more important to us, you know, as, as, uh, there may come a time when I will be working again, you know, but right now that's what we've chosen and we wanted to have several, we got her and we've got another on the way,
[speaker001:] Well,
[speaker002:] and maybe another,
[speaker001:] like I said,
[speaker002:] one soon after that, so [LAUGHTER],
[speaker001:] that's grand if, if you can pull it off
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] but more and more we're being forced into a situation, we as Americans are being forced into a situation, where you've got to have,

[speaker001:] okay it's pressed are you still there okay
[speaker002:] I'm ready
[speaker001:] so what's uh things that you look for when you go out to dinner
[speaker002:] oh I just like a nice quiet nice atmosphere
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] and of course good food that's always that's always a concern but just a nice quiet easy place maybe candlelight something
[speaker001:] um um that sounds pretty
[speaker002:] just to relax you know because I don't really go out to dinner that much so
[speaker001:] yeah um-hum well we don't go out to dinner that much either we try to get out maybe like once every month and a half or something like that but
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] I definitely want to go to a place that's nice and clean you know
[speaker002:] right
[speaker001:] um I've been to some that's been terrible you know you see cockroaches crawling around and
[speaker002:] oh
[speaker001:] everything you know but I try to get one that's nice and clean and then I like to you know good food and good service
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] so
[speaker002:] yeah where you don't feel rushed you know and you can just relax and stay as long as you want and
[speaker001:] yeah right right right so is there some nice places to go to eat in Plano
[speaker002:] well nearby we're almost in Dallas we're just north of Dallas
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] so we have quite a bit between us and there it's about ten miles
[speaker001:] um-hum um-hum
[speaker002:] and there is all kinds of restaurants and I had one that was a favorite for a long time and then it changed hands and doubled the prices and then it finally went out of business
[speaker001:] um
[speaker002:] so but it was really nice it had a fireplace and
[speaker001:] um that sounds beautiful
[speaker002:] yeah it was really nice they had entertainment sometimes and you you could just really relax there and enjoy it
[speaker001:] um-hum um-hum um-hum um-hum well this is only a little small city um we have uh
[speaker002:] but it's gone
[speaker001:] excuse me I didn't think my coughing would come back anyhow we have only like one uh restaurant that's kind of nice you know they have prime rib on uh weekends
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] and then then they have about six miles from here is called a little city called Wesley and they have a Wesley Hotel there that they serve food and the atmosphere there is really really nice
[speaker002:] oh that's nice
[speaker001:] so and then if we really want to you know something different then we go to Modesto which is like twenty minutes away
[speaker002:] uh-huh right
[speaker001:] but uh we don't have any fast foods here in this small city
[speaker002:] that's probably very fortunate for you do you have kids
[speaker001:] do I have kids well I have a son but he's grown up
[speaker002:] yeah oh because I have a twelve year old that would eat a happy meal every night you know and now she's graduated to two cheeseburgers so something's happened here but but um
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] you know McDonald's is definitely at the top of her list and I hate these places
[speaker001:] yeah all the kids seem to love McDonald's don't they you know
[speaker002:] so uh-huh they do and I don't think there's an ounce of nutritional value in anything they have so
[speaker001:] no no I'm sure there isn't
[speaker002:] so we have all kinds of fast foods everywhere around and it's really it's tempting when you come home from work and you're tired and
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] you know you just are tempted to give in to that and it costs a lot of money to do it too you know it adds up and it's not healthy and
[speaker001:] I know it's
[speaker002:] I I really got into that habit for a while but I got out of it again because I just felt like it was just too unhealthy
[speaker001:] yeah yeah um-hum
[speaker002:] so
[speaker001:] well let's see what else can we talk about
[speaker002:] well how's California today
[speaker001:] oh it's foggy and cold here
[speaker002:] is it that's what I've heard yeah
[speaker001:] um-hum um-hum yeah it's
[speaker002:] yeah have you always lived there
[speaker001:] I came from Iowa when I was sixteen
[speaker002:] oh
[speaker001:] so I've lived out in California for a long long time yeah I like it real well
[speaker002:] and you like it yeah we've been
[speaker001:] we used to live in Oakland so we used to have a lot more restaurants to go to there
[speaker002:] oh yeah
[speaker001:] you know but uh then I quit work and everything and I moved bought a house I had a condo in Oakland so right in Chinatown so we went to a lots of restaurants and Chinese restaurants
[speaker002:] uh-huh oh that would be fun
[speaker001:] and they were really good I really miss them
[speaker002:] yeah do you miss living there
[speaker001:] you know uh no I really don't miss living there I just like to go in there and have a nice Chinese dinner once in a while you know
[speaker002:] no yeah yeah
[speaker001:] but um as far as missing living there no it's close enough if I wanted to go there to San Francisco for dinner or something why you know
[speaker002:] hum
[speaker001:] an hour and fifteen minutes we could be there and you know have dinner and then come on back but uh
[speaker002:] yeah uh-huh
[speaker001:] have you ever been to California
[speaker002:] oh yeah I I go all the time
[speaker001:] oh really
[speaker002:] yeah well I have a twenty one year old daughter in college there and she um is world champion twirler
[speaker001:] um um-hum
[speaker002:] and her coach is in California so she went there for six years
[speaker001:] um
[speaker002:] so I went out a lot with her
[speaker001:] um-hum um-hum
[speaker002:] and uh yeah I know California pretty well and I love it
[speaker001:] um-hum yeah I guess
[speaker002:] and we tug back and forth who's gonna move but I think he's gonna move because I'm the person with more to lose here I have my twelve year old in school
[speaker001:] um-hum um-hum
[speaker002:] and she's happy she's always lived here in the south and I've had my house so
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] I've too much to lose

[speaker001:] uh national health insurance I think is a problem in as much as the quality of health care that people will receive
[speaker002:] right
[speaker001:] yeah because uh the articles that I've read regarding national health service in Canada and England has indicated that uh what stay stay in line for uh four hours to get an aspirin from a doctor
[speaker002:] right yeah I'm I'm sort of mixed on this I think that the the answer may lie in uh not in so much a uh national kind of medical thing that like like England has but more of a um national insurance uh sort of clearinghouse or whatever I think that uh too many the problem with with right now is that we've got too many different health insurances that people have to go through and and I think that I think you you mentioned Canada I think that they have a system where uh they the government deals with the with I mean you you go to whoever you want but file through one one's particular uh setup and that way
[speaker001:] um I see
[speaker002:] they they are able to reduce prices because they've you know it's it's all one one centralized thing
[speaker001:] yeah like I think that uh again having gone through a period when I was out of work and had to buy health insurance on my own if you don't have a company supporting you in the uh picking up the major portion of your health insurance the cost is
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] almost prohibitive
[speaker002:] right uh I I was listening uh on the radio the other day and they were talking something something something like this I think they were talking about the fact that um the money that could be saved um in administrative costs and so forth nationwide by consolidating into sort of a national insurance provider um could uh could they could make they could it I I provide health insurance to to people who couldn't afford it just by the money they would save
[speaker001:] yeah uh we're currently where I'm working now under Blue Cross I don't know what the total cost of the program is but for dependent coverage I'm paying a hundred and seventy dollars a a month or something like that so I assume that probably the total coverage cost is probably three fifty to four hundred they're probably picking up about half of it and that's a pretty good policy
[speaker002:] right  right
[speaker001:] but if you had something like one of these uh health maintenance programs or one of whatever the type name is HMO uh where the
[speaker002:] yeah HMO
[speaker001:] uh where you go to the doctor and it only costs you ten dollars and the insurance picks up the rest if you tried to buy something like that I'm probable it would probably be five or six hundred dollars a month
[speaker002:] yeah is they're they're fairly expensive I I um
[speaker001:] for just the cost of something
[speaker002:] I had was on an HMO up until last year and uh through through work and it was
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] I forget how much I paid a month but it was much you know is at least twice if not more expensive than the regular health care
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] and uh the reason I I quite was because of uh not because I didn't like it I I really kind of did uh the reason I quite was just because the the doctor a a certain doctor that we enjoyed enjoyed going to was no longer associated with that HMO so we my wife decided she wanted to to stay with that doctor so we went to the to the
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] the medical insurance that we have at here at work and uh I uh
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] I like the I like the convenience of the HMO in in a certain respect because it uh even though you're once you find the doctor that you like it's not a problem you know a lot of people complain saying well I don't want to uh be have to be told who I need to go to but you know if you don't have a doctor anyway normally it doesn't really make much difference
[speaker001:] yeah that's right
[speaker002:] because you can you know if if you find someone you really like and then we did find several good doctors and um like you say it's uh five dollars an office visit and um my wife was in the hospital had our had our daughter and I think her total bill was around three hundred dollars
[speaker001:] oh goodness
[speaker002:] for everything uh that included uh you know the doctors the time the hospital everything
[speaker001:] delivery room and everything
[speaker002:] delivery room and everything include including a private room because there was a little extra that she had to pay but that was that was still included in that price that cost so it's really nice because they
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] you know their their attitude is different than than a regular uh insurance uh health insurance uh the in in a HMO you know they're trying to prevent a problem by by keeping the cost down at the front end
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] you know and have you come in you know they they charge five dollars a
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] you know pop you're more willing to go in and try to take care of a problem before it grows big
[speaker001:] yeah as to a company's benefit to have a program like that because it keeps their employees healthy and on the job
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] because they don't have to worry about going in and and paying uh seventy five dollars to have the doctor look at you for ten minutes
[speaker002:] right yeah I I uh I I really liked it we both my wife and I both did you you don't have to worry about filling out forms uh you know for reimbursement and all or you know getting paid eight percent of of whatever you just pay the the five dollars right then and then you're done with it
[speaker001:] yeah but here again the the doctor's practices in hospitals have gone become fairly sizeable businesses under themselves now uh you take a hospital uh the physical plant itself you have to pay your share of the operating of that
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] eight story building uh when the rooms are empty so they spread the costs out over uh all the patient costs and uh that's how you come up with aspirin that costs four dollars apiece and things like that
[speaker002:] right right
[speaker001:] the horror stories that you hear about people going into the hospital for a week and uh it being a four thousand dollar bill
[speaker002:] well they and then again they're also they're taking up the cost of people who can't pay you know they they get a lot of uh
[speaker001:] right
[speaker002:] a lot of uh people who are just just have to be there and can't afford it and so they they know they're not going to get paid you know get money from them so they
[speaker001:] yeah yeah
[speaker002:] will have to absorb it somewhere else
[speaker001:] yeah my daughter and son-in-law had a baby here about uh what he he'll be three in August and uh their insurance plan that they're under
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] encourages you to shorten your stay in the hospital
[speaker002:] right
[speaker001:] and like she went in she had the baby and she was out in two days time
[speaker002:] right
[speaker001:] and it was treated almost like it was an outpatient visit to the hospital the deductibles didn't apply
[speaker002:] right rig ht
[speaker001:] and so that's one way one way the insurance companies are trying to hold costs down is by uh okay if you'll shorten your stay then we will uh waive the deductible
[speaker002:] right our our insurance is uh is doing something similar where they're also going to more

[speaker001:] Wayne I've uh feel very strongly about parents doing things with their children and making time available even sometimes when time isn't available how do you feel about it
[speaker002:] well yeah I feel much the same way I've uh two kids right now one is two and a half and one's nine months and uh
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] that age of course everything you do they're trying to learn to do and so uh it's important for you to spend time doing the things that you want them to learn you know that that they need to learn at the age you know
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] reading and uh reading and playing nice with others and that sort of thing
[speaker001:] yeah we went through this with our children and now with our grandchildren and I've always tried to do things with them uh like when you're at the little league helping out even though I'm not a good athlete myself I was able to help the coach in in just controlling the kids if nothing else and we've always uh oh tried to take our children and now now at this age our grandchildren to see and do things that otherwise they might not be able to I think that's just part of their overall educational process is to get out and see and do things
[speaker002:] right uh-huh
[speaker001:] yeah yeah so it's uh we have uh lived several places around the the US and we have where we've lived we've taken them to see and do things of interest and of historical significance in the area like when we lived in Tennessee we we took them to Washington DC to see all the capitol and and things like that when they were small and that just uh it helps I think the children to when they're learning in school to say well I've been there and I've seen that
[speaker002:] right uh-huh
[speaker001:] yeah yeah so uh that's the type
[speaker002:] yeah it certainly does because uh you know the things in the books seem so dead to the kids and you know unless they've actually been there or whatever because I remember our family well we went we went everywhere and uh uh seeing New England and uh being on Plymouth Rock and stuff like that was uh
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] really made the whole thing more uh visual and you could uh read the things in the history books and understand what they said when it was like we need food we need to raise food quickly because this this place gets very cold very soon
[speaker001:] yes yeah  yeah yeah we've uh gone through that uh I remember my parents didn't do all those type things and so I made a special effort with my children to do things like that and even now with my grandchildren I feel it's a very important thing to be done
[speaker002:] right because if uh kids don't look up to you or or can't can't feel they can spend time with you they're going to find someone else and uh
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] you know nowadays there's a lot of people out there that you don't want your kid to emulating or whatever
[speaker001:] yeah well I can remember one of the things I'm most proud of is uh when my son was I think it was in the sixth grade they had to write uh a little brief autobiography of themselves and about what they had done and what they wanted to do and I was very proud when my son wrote that he wanted to uh have a family and be able to help coach little league and do things like his dad had done with him a real a real point of pride with me
[speaker002:] yeah that is nice
[speaker001:] yeah excuse me we sound like we both have colds
[speaker002:] yeah well it's um well it's uh uh ten o'clock here in Falls Church Virginia so that the only reason I'm home is because I'm home with a cold and the wife says well you need something to do talk to the guy on the phone
[speaker001:] oh oh oh well you're kind yeah well I'm sitting here on the ninth floor of an office building on the north side of Dallas Texas so we're we're kind of far apart here
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] we've uh this is a very interesting program I I've heard about here on this and when I signed up for it it uh looked like it could be uh make a real contribution in in participating and uh
[speaker002:] right yeah I'm uh electrical engineer by trade
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] uh here in Virginia likewise we uh we do some projects every now and then we like to get support from uh other other companies as well so
[speaker001:] yeah yeah I'm an accountant presently working as a contractor liquidating a failed savings and loan so you know trying to work myself out of a job but it's it's been an interesting uh roughly oh nine months here and uh
[speaker002:] oh
[speaker001:] again this is our home area we've lived here about seventeen years and it's uh we enjoy living here it's where we originally started out and we've lived up north for a while in Chicago and over in Tennessee so wound up back about two hundred miles aware away from where we started out
[speaker002:] yep
[speaker001:] well uh that's about all I can think to talk about right now it's been a pleasure talking with you
[speaker002:] okay right bye-bye
[speaker001:] thank you bye

[speaker001:] Okay, well, what's your opinion about capital punishment?
[speaker002:] Well, Cathy, I think that, uh, capital punishment certainly has a place in our society, um, maybe from the sense that there are some things that we just can't afford to have repeated, even in the remote chance of repetition.
[speaker001:] Right, I think I would agree with you on that, too. I, I can't see any point in keeping someone who's obviously beyond any kind of rehabilitation, uh, keeping them, you know, paying for them to live in prison for years and years and years when you could probably just eliminate the problem. Maybe spend the money on someone who could possibly be helped.
[speaker002:] That might be true, um, I'm, what I don't know, is where do we draw the line.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] Uh, do we say that every one who commits murder in the first degree is liable for capital punishment if that's what the jury decides is an appropriate punishment for their crime, or do we extend it beyond that?
[speaker001:] Uh-huh, beyond murder or just beyond like first degree murder?
[speaker002:] Well, either, you know. Uh, I have a, a nine year old daughter, and there are some crimes that could be committed against her that are not even considered capital crimes, that, that I would consider basis for murder.
[speaker001:] Yeah. Yeah, well that really gets into a sticky issue. Uh, I could see that too. I think there's probably things I could think of short of murder that someone, I think someone would probably deserve to be killed for. But, gosh, and who's going to decide which is how bad, you know, something that to you is really bad might not be quite so bad to me, and, uh, it's gets into a pretty sticky issue.
[speaker002:] Yes, it does. A lot of that has to do with the cultures that we grew up in and what's termed acceptable and, um, to what's allowable and where are we.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] Uh, you know, if we were, lived in a different country, then murder is not so bad.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Yeah.
[speaker002:] But over here, where we're promised the civil liberties of purs-, life, liberty and pursuit of happiness, then taking that away is a, a heinous act.
[speaker001:] Yeah, in some eyes. I think some people give up that [LAUGHTER]. I think some of what we consider rights are really more privileges than, than what most people think of them as. I don't know what, um, Texas's criteria for capital murder is, do, capital punishment is, do you know? Are there some set guidelines, like only under these circumstances?
[speaker002:] I don't know. I believe it's, uh, at the discretion of the judge or jury.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh. I used to live in Virginia, and I know when they first reinstated capital punishment it was only, um, if someone killed a police officer or someone committed rape and then murder. Those were the only two circumstances where you could give someone the death penalty, which I think is a little too limited.
[speaker002:] I tend to agree with you there. Um, my belief is that, is that, um, any crime that's freely committed, you know freedom of choice
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] these people had a choice of committing this crime, that involves the taking of another's life or the altering of someone's life
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] such as rape, deserves punishment by death. But then I'm also told that I'm a pretty harsh person.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Yeah, in general terms I'm not so harsh, but then whenever I hear of a specific case, you know, where someone did something, then it's like, yeah, put it to them [LAUGHTER]. So, I think I probably tend to be a little bit harsh, too, as far as that goes. Because, yeah, I think you're right, that person voluntarily gives up when they decide to commit that crime, they voluntarily give up their right to continue on with their happy life, just beca-, you know, they ruin someone else's life.
[speaker002:] All right, I can see a difference between a person who goes out to rob a store for food
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] than a person who commits a crime to, either for the thrill of committing the crime or the thrill, the feeling of power that they get from it, or to acquire drugs for some other, I mean acquire funds for some other illegal activity.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] You know, that second group of people falls into the group that I say give up their rights, the, the first guy, you know I just assumed it was a guy, the first person,
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] that went out to rob a store for food, that to me is, is a different set of circumstances, where he, he deserves help instead of, uh, loss of life.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] [Throat clearing].
[speaker001:] Yeah, he didn't go out with the intent of hurting someone else.
[speaker002:] That's right or with the,
[speaker001:] Or with no regard for someone else's well being. What about, uh, like teenagers that get involved in a gang and do a drive by shooting or something like that. Say fifteen, sixteen year old. Would you consider, uh, capital punishment for them?
[speaker002:] I think I would probably lower the age to about fourteen.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] There's some, and I, I certainly don't know myself, but somebody needs to do a study that says at what age true and complete logical thought to include the, the consideration of, of long term consequences
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] begins.
[speaker001:] Yeah, what age they're accountable,
[speaker002:] You know,
[speaker001:] for their actions.
[speaker002:] I have an eighteen year old, and, uh, well he's nineteen now, and I don't think that I saw it in him until maybe last year,
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] And I have an eleven year old and a nine year old, and I don't, don't see it in them yet, but I'm, I'm not sure where it begins.
[speaker001:] Yeah, I know that they are lowering the age of, uh, whatever is considered a minor. I think the kids, certain kids have been tried as adults who were a lot younger than they used to be, like, I think I read about a boy that was nine or ten, that got mad at some playmates and went in and got a gun and just opened fire on them, and they were trying to charge him as a,

[speaker001:] Okay.
[speaker002:] All right, well, I'm not a big exerciser, but I kind of had to start after I had my baby because I wanted to lose that extra weight.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And so basically at this point I'm, I'm a real walker.
[speaker001:] I am, too.
[speaker002:] Are you?
[speaker001:] Yes.
[speaker002:] I don't do that, oh, I guess I'll call it that fancy type walking where they kind of move their hips, you know, and
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] keep their arms up. I don't do that. I mostly just take a, a walk around the block or with my baby or, you know, and I have to do that at least once a day. If it,
[speaker001:] Oh, that's good.
[speaker002:] If it's going to make any effect on, since I have to eat the same as I did before. I can't neglect that because of the baby either.
[speaker001:] And how old is your baby?
[speaker002:] She just, uh, well, she was premature, so she's about nine months now, though. Goll-, times goes fast.
[speaker001:] Yes.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Well, I walk two and a half to three miles every night.
[speaker002:] Oh, that's great.
[speaker001:] My husband and I were on Nutrisystem about eighteen months ago
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and he lost sixty-two pounds
[speaker002:] [Breathing].
[speaker001:] and I lost twenty-one.
[speaker002:] Oh, my goodness.
[speaker001:] [Lipsmack] So we've decided to maintain our weight, that we will do this exercise walking program and we walk our dog every night
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and go up around the elementary school. We have a little path that we do.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] And, uh, except if it's raining or real cold
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] which it hasn't been
[speaker002:] Exactly.
[speaker001:] we try to get out, uh, every, every night.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] And he plays racquetball twice a week, but I'm not into that, so
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] I think the walking is enough to help us stay in shape and toned.
[speaker002:] Well, I think that is just wonderful. Now, as far as I'm concerned, I have several other children and so, uh, I think at this point to fit it into, to other things, it's kind of a task.
[speaker001:] Yes.
[speaker002:] You know. Uh, it's not to where I'm just so freed up that I, I just go, oh, this is wonderful, let's go [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Right [LAUGHTER], that's right. I know my kids are into sports and a lot of times, tonight we won't finish with the football game till around nine thirty so we will just go out after that.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] So, my kids, luckily, are old enough I can leave them at home alone while I go out and walk.
[speaker002:] Yeah. Now, does your husband usually go with you, then?
[speaker001:] Yes.
[speaker002:] Oh, see, now that's really nice.
[speaker001:] Yes.
[speaker002:] Because mine's at meetings sometimes and, and he's not really into it so
[speaker001:] No
[speaker002:] I have to,
[speaker001:] my husband never was either until he lost the weight.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] That was his decision. He had arthritis in his hips and his doctor said he needed to lose weight and exercise.
[speaker002:] I think that is so wonderful.
[speaker001:] So once he got motivated, now he's ready to walk every night. And our dog has lost a little weight. He walks every night, too [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] So, he gets excited when he sees us put on our, our shoes, our walking shoes.
[speaker002:] I bet. I think that's really, really good. And, and, you know, I think this, after you've done it a certain amount of time, it kind of does get to be a routine.
[speaker001:] Yes.
[speaker002:] It's not, like when I first started, it, you know, that was the hardest thing was
[speaker001:] Making time for it.
[speaker002:] to get ready and get out there. But now if I haven't done it in a day or two or something, I really notice that I haven't done it in a [LAUGHTER]...
[speaker001:] Yes.
[speaker002:] You know. And I like the time because my kids, sometimes they come with me and sometimes they don't. And when they don't, I, I really notice, you know, how fun it can be when they come. So, uh, I like to have somebody come with me.
[speaker001:] I know, I do, too.
[speaker002:] Uh, I know most of, enough of the people that if anything ever happened I could go to a home
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] around this block area. So it, it's not real dangerous, but still, I don't like to go alone.
[speaker001:] No.
[speaker002:] So [faint].
[speaker001:] I never do either. Even if I have my dog with me.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] You know, it's nice to have another person there, but...
[speaker002:] Yeah. You know,
[speaker001:] Mostly, it's my husband and sometimes it's my kids.
[speaker002:] Well, I think that's great. I, and, well, sometimes when I, I take my kids to the playground that's the only other exercise I, I really think I do. I was on an exercise program before where it was more like an aerobics type thing.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Uh, I found real quick that wasn't for me.
[speaker001:] Me, too. I did the dance step when I lived up in
[speaker002:] Uh-huh [very faint].
[speaker001:] Michigan and it just wore me out. I would leave totally exhausted. I never lost any weight, and I got to the point I dreaded going in.
[speaker002:] Yeah, yeah.
[speaker001:] So walking seems to be a good solution for me and it doesn't cost anything [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Right [LAUGHTER], right. And it gives me time to think. So I think, not only does it help my body, but I think it helps my mind
[speaker001:] Yes.
[speaker002:] too. So I like that.
[speaker001:] That's the one time in the day my husband and I can get away and talk
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] without having the kids jump in and...
[speaker002:] Yeah, need something and,
[speaker001:] Yep.
[speaker002:] They can wait until you get back home.
[speaker001:] Yep.
[speaker002:] Well, I think that's great [lipsmack]. Well, that's what I do for [LAUGHTER],
[speaker001:] Yep, that's all I do, too.
[speaker002:] Okay.
[speaker001:] Okay.

[speaker001:] So, Jan, how do they recycle in Texas?
[speaker002:] Well, I, the biggest, [NOISE] uh, way it's going right now, [NOISE] uh, lot, } most of the grocery stores
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] have got, uh, things set up s-, where you can bring in your, uh, plastic, and your cans, and newspapers. And then they've just got different barrels [NOISE] setting out , I shouldn't say barrels, like big John Doors or,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] whatever they're,
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] called. Gondolas [breathing].
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] Um, they've got them set outside [lipsmack] and,
[speaker001:] Is it,
[speaker002:] uh,
[speaker001:] is it all voluntary?
[speaker002:] Yes. It's all voluntary. Now, they do have some places where you can take things and get cash but,
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] I think the lot of people don't really want the cash.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] You know, they just want to, uh, help recycle. Which is,
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] what we do. You know,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] we, [breathing] probably the only thing, sometimes we'll take cash or the cans in and we let the kids get the money for that.
[speaker001:] Right. Yeah.
[speaker002:] But, uh,
[speaker001:] There's,
[speaker002:] f-,
[speaker001:] a lot of projects where the, the Boy Scouts and things, and that will,
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] collect your cans and,
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] it's a good fund raiser for the kids.
[speaker002:] Yeah. That's true, but, but that's really the, the biggest thing around here is the grocery stores participating.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] You know but,
[speaker001:] I guess, I, you see, I guess it depends on your landfill space.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] I know, I, we're in Maryland, but, my, I from Pennsylvania *missing copula? and my parents how, are forced recycling,
[speaker002:] Oh,
[speaker001:] uh,
[speaker002:] really?
[speaker001:] Yeah. All plastic, they ha-, all plastic has to go into a recycling bin, all cans have to be recycled, all newspapers has to be recycled.
[speaker002:] Oh, wow.
[speaker001:] Because they're, um, [lipsmack] they're just running out of space and landfills. Uh, Pennsylvania, Ohio, and New York are some of the, uh, they're using their landfills up faster than they can get new ones.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] So, it's really, uh, it's, uh, really hard on them. Now, up here in Maryland, though, we're j-, just in a voluntary recycling stage right now. So, uh, so my wife and I, you know, we save our bottles, and we save our newspapers, and we save all our plastic, and all of our tin cans. And just like you say, we go to, uh, a community area where they have it set up and we dump them off [NOISE] there.
[speaker002:] So, it's vol-,
[speaker001:] Yeah. It's still voluntary,
[speaker002:] you say it is all voluntary. Do they,
[speaker001:] though I think, I think we're supposed to have something impame-, implemented by nineteen ninety-three, though
[speaker002:] Will it be mandatory?
[speaker001:] where some aspects will be mandatory. Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Is it all, um, is there any place at all where you do get cash for this stuff or is it all,
[speaker001:] Mostly just the cans.
[speaker002:] Okay.
[speaker001:] And I,
[speaker002:] Yeah. And that's,
[speaker001:] and most of the time, like I said, that's, that's a sort of like fund raiser things that,
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] the schools do, or that the Boy Scouts do, or whatever.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] Yeah. That's true. That's,
[speaker001:] Cans are the only thing I think you really get money for.
[speaker002:] Well, they do have places around here where you can get money for your newspapers,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] and stuff like that. But, you know, I think a lot of people, like I said, are more concerned,
[speaker001:] Right. Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] with, you know, right now, you know, the aspects of saving the earth [breathing].
[speaker001:] Yeah,
[speaker002:] Um.
[speaker001:] I think that's mostly, well, you know, we, even before, as soon as the community said, you know, We're going to put up bins for recycling, you know, we automatically started,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] doing it. It was,
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] it's one of those things, you know, and just going and taking the time to go and read the signs and the brochures on what they accept and how it should be,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] separated, you know. That's,
[speaker002:] Well, I tell you, it's kind of funny now at, e-, even at T I, I don't, do you work for T I?
[speaker001:] No. Huh-uh.
[speaker002:] Okay. Um, at T I they're doing recycling. I mean, for a long time they didn't do this, but now they're, they're recycling cans and paper. We have separate bins
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] uh, separate wastebaskets [NOISE] in our offices
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] for paper.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] You know, and they, I mean it's tremendous how much money they have saved and even saving all these trees and, you know
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] it's really, [LAUGHTER] I can't believe that
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] you know. Because they've got it all posted all over the place how much,
[speaker001:] How much, how well they're doing.
[speaker002:] they're saving and how w-, yeah.
[speaker001:] We do, I, um, [lipsmack] I, I work in a, uh, speech interface lab,
[speaker002:] Oh, okay.
[speaker001:] at a, at a, at a college. And we do basically the same thing. The state of Maryland has lost, asked all the colleges and universities, and some of the large organizations, you know, if they would definitely recycle their office paper.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] And,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] the same thing, you know, every, almost every college in Maryland is recycling office paper. But, you know, in the giant bins around, and it's surprising how much
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] you never realize, because that janitor comes around and empties your garbage,
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] can every night.
[speaker002:] Yep. So,
[speaker001:] You don't notice until,
[speaker002:] you don't think about it.
[speaker001:] you start leaving, you know, they don't pick up your recycling until [NOISE] it's full and,
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] you just can't believe how much paper that you, uh,
[speaker002:] I know [breathing].
[speaker001:] Reams of paper come,
[speaker002:] Yep [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] out of an office every day [LAUGHTER]. That,
[speaker002:] Yeah. Well, you think about,
[speaker001:] took us to recycle.
[speaker002:] the waste, even.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] I mean, you know, cost wise and
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] and, you know, like you s-, saving trees and stuff like [NOISE] that. I mean, it's just amazing, [NOISE] you know,
[speaker001:] Yeah. So, I think,
[speaker002:] the difference.
[speaker001:] [Noise] Hopefully, if, you know, I guess a lot of the large organizations, [NOISE] probably T I, did they advertise on television how successful they are?
[speaker002:] N-,
[speaker001:] .
[speaker002:] I haven't seen,
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] anything. Uh, but that doesn't mean that they don't. I don't watch much T V,
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] but, I haven't really seen anything advertise publicly.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And then, like I said, they do a lot of internal,
[speaker001:] Internal.
[speaker002:] advertising on that kind of stuff.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] But, I haven't seen anything.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] But see, I don't see a lot of T I advertisements on T V anyway. I think they advertise more, um, other places where they're not located.
[speaker001:] Right. Yeah. That would probably,
[speaker002:] You know. So,
[speaker001:] be true.
[speaker002:] So, I don't see a lot of advertisements for T I.
[speaker001:] Yeah. Because I know that some of the large industries here will advertise on television, you know, they'll jus-, come up and say, you know, they'll show you tho-, to encourage [sniffing], to encourage recycling. They'll,
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] say, And here, those of us that Dumavra Power, which is our power company,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] that, we now recycle forty-five percent of our solid waste,
[speaker002:] Right [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] and they, and that, we do this for the community, they put those on. So I, so I think, you know, we're probably reaching a successful stage and, and just with voluntary,
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] I think.
[speaker002:] Well, even, I mean, in the kid's schools,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] I mean they do things to try and recycle. And, I know my kids, um, like if they see litter on the ground they pick it up and say, Oh, look at that. Somebody is not saving the earth, [LAUGHTER] you know.
[speaker001:] Right. Yeah.
[speaker002:] So, I mean, the kids, I mean, they really try to educate all ages, you know, and it's good to start the kids real young on,
[speaker001:] I think so, too.
[speaker002:] stuff like that.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] Because, I mean, when I was a kid, they never did stuff like that. I mean, it's like nobody was concerned about it.
[speaker001:] Right. Yeah. We weren't,
[speaker002:] You know, and it's like,
[speaker001:] concerned. Yeah. That's true.
[speaker002:] You know, it's like all of a sudden when there's noticeable things, saying, Hey, you know,
[speaker001:] Huh.
[speaker002:] we're ruining the earth, you know. And now everybody is doing something about, which is good.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] [Noise] But how come we weren't [NOISE] doing this, say, twenty years ago [breathing],
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] you know?
[speaker001:] I, I think really probably what hit peoples, you know, I know that here in the, up in the, uh, [lipsmack] uh, the, the New Englands area and also in, in Pennsylvania, Ohio, and New York, the, just run, all of a sudden we're out of landfill.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] And, and they're saying, We estimate this landfill be ov-, will be full in two years unless we cut back. And,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] even then, you know, we're really running out of space. So, I think that, that became, that all of a sudden really hit home that there's no longer landfill space,
[speaker002:] Well,
[speaker001:] in some of the more crowded states.
[speaker002:] Yeah. This is,
[speaker001:] So, what, you know, and n-, no other state, I'm sure Texas probably still has some landfill space. They're not going to voluntarily say, Hey, ship your garbage here.
[speaker002:] Right [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] So, you know,
[speaker002:] Yeah. That's true.
[speaker001:] realistically, you know, we had, we really had to start, we have to start recycling in some, some, uh, geographic areas. It's really,
[speaker002:] I think,
[speaker001:] tough.
[speaker002:] that it, it really surprises me because of the cost savings. I mean, this is such a tremendous,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] amount of cost savings. I mean, why, [breathing] I can't understand why nobody saw that before. I mean, even, even not
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] even the aspects of not saving the earth [breathing], {E I,
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] mean, } it's,
[speaker001:] Yeah. But, well,
[speaker002:] so cost, you know,
[speaker001:] Well, in some ways, I guess, it, it doesn't become really cost saving until you have an industry around it, you know. Because,
[speaker002:] Bro-,.
[speaker001:] I know that, like in,
[speaker002:] yeah.
[speaker001:] Pennsylvania, [NOISE] they require them to, um, [lipsmack] put their newspaper for recycling. But, [NOISE] the de-inking process that they have to, they use,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] to take the ink out of the newspaper so it can be reused
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] um, is very expensive,
[speaker002:] Oh.
[speaker001:] and also, it w-, it produces a, a waste, a, um, a,
[speaker002:] Oh.
[speaker001:] liquid waste that they don't know what to do with [NOISE] yet.
[speaker002:] I see,
[speaker001:] So,
[speaker002:] okay.
[speaker001:] even some aspects of recycling
[speaker002:] Is not
[speaker001:] they still have cost,
[speaker002:] real cost efficient. Oh, okay, okay. Oh,
[speaker001:] yeah, cost efficient, yet. Yeah.
[speaker002:] I,
[speaker001:] So,
[speaker002:] understand that though.
[speaker001:] but others, you know, like tin cans and plastics,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] are, are really, uh, efficient, you know. They,
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] they melt on quickly and can be, you know, just because of the,
[speaker002:] and glass. Right.
[speaker001:] heating and things, getting glass. Yeah.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] So, i-, it really is surprising that people haven't noticed it before.
[speaker002:] Yeah. That's true.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh. Yeah.
[speaker002:] And even, I, I noticed that a lot of gas stations are telling you to recycle your oil.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And, I mean, that kind of surprises me [LAUGHTER]. I mean, you know, because once oil gets so, you know, thick and yucky, you'd wonder how they could, you know, clean that up,
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] enough to use it again, but they can.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Um, I don't know how cost efficient that would be, I guess,
[speaker001:] Yeah. I d-, I don't know either. That's, I know that though, I, e-, all those petroleum products though are so terrible for your, um, [lipsmack] the water table.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] You know, they really pollute quickly and, you know, one, , I was reading some place the brake fluid, you put, brake fluid normally comes in just small little pint containers.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] That one pint of brake fluid can contaminate so many gallons of water,
[speaker002:] Wow.
[speaker001:] you know, like hundreds of gallons of water. So, it's one of those things that they really, um, [lipsmack] and you wonder, you know, with all these oil spills.
[speaker002:] Yeah [breathing].
[speaker001:] How, how terrible that is [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Yeah. I know [breathing].
[speaker001:] Yeah, how terrible that is. So, we'll have to, we'll have to keep our eyes on all that, I guess.
[speaker002:] Really.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] I know I really, I don't know, I, I think that, I mean, I think that they really are doing a good thing now and I hope it keeps, well, I'm sure we'll keep up.
[speaker001:] Yeah. I,
[speaker002:] You know,
[speaker001:] agree.
[speaker002:] I think it's really catching on.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] You know, I, I think that, I'm not [NOISE] sure if it, I don't know, I think it's a good idea to make it mandatory [NOISE].
[speaker001:] I do, too.
[speaker002:] Um, [NOISE] it, because like we were asking some people that live in, um, North Dakota, Well, are you saving [NOISE] your, you know, are you recycling. And they said, Well, we're not forced to do it yet, so no.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] You know, so, I mean I don't know, I think that if people are forced, if the people are not forced to do it they may not, {D you,
[speaker001:] Yeah. It d-,,
[speaker002:] know. } I mean, I don't know, I think a lot of people still will, but [LAUGHTER],
[speaker001:] Well, you know, if they're forced to do it [NOISE] it becomes sort of a habit.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] You know, I know that it's really funny. My parents are forced to do it and they,

[speaker001:] Set.
[speaker002:] Okay.
[speaker001:] You, you got the topic, right?
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Okay. Uh, well, where in Dallas are you?
[speaker002:] I'm in Richardson.
[speaker001:] Oh, okay. So you do re-, do recycling there?
[speaker002:] Yeah, Richardson has, uh, well, they have a newspaper pick up once a week supposedly, if it's not raining.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And they also have a couple of areas where you can take, uh, cans, plastic and paper, to, uh, you know, dump them off there if you don't, uh, want to wait and have a pick up, least of paper, but they don't pick up the other items. They don't pick up cans or the
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] plastic.
[speaker001:] Are they going to later, do you know?
[speaker002:] I'm not sure. They only started to do the newspaper [breathing], uh, late last year. Just kind of like a trial basis.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And see how it goes, so I don't know if they're going to pick up the other things.
[speaker001:] Um.
[speaker002:] What about you?
[speaker001:] Well, I'm, I'm in Dallas proper
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] in the city of Dallas and I know they do have, you know, a pilot program going on but it's not here.
[speaker002:] Um.
[speaker001:] So they're not picking up anything [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Oh.
[speaker001:] So, I mean, we, we collect everything [breathing]. We've got all these boxes in our garage for, you know, green glass and clear glass and plastic and everything.
[speaker002:] Where do you take them?
[speaker001:] Well, there's, there's a couple places. Unfortunately, we can't find a place that will take everything.
[speaker002:] Um.
[speaker001:] Uh, there's a lot of places to take, like the plastic, uh, shopping bags
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] like most of the grocery stores.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] And there's a Wal-Mart nearby that takes almost everything. I can't remember what it is they don't take.
[speaker002:] Um.
[speaker001:] And the library will take glass. So we end up, you know, on the weekend we pack it all in the car and,
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] and as we go places [LAUGHTER] we, oh, wait, we can drop the glass off [LAUGHTER], you know.
[speaker002:] Um.
[speaker001:] Drop things off one at a time, but, uh, and it's kind of disappointing, I mean, I would even be happy if they just had one, you know, one place where you could do everything. You know, it would still be more convenient than what we have now.
[speaker002:] One of the people from my department, I think used to take a lot of the stuff to a recycling center that was for the benefit of the Dallas Shelter.
[speaker001:] Um.
[speaker002:] I think it was
[speaker001:] Where is that?
[speaker002:] closer to downtown. Uh, she's not here anymore
[speaker001:] Oh.
[speaker002:] but, uh, yeah,
[speaker001:] I'm pretty far north. I'm not, I'm, I'm, I'm just, I'm north of Addison actually.
[speaker002:] Oh.
[speaker001:] So I'm, I'm really [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] I'm, s-, I'm in Dallas, but only technically [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Well, sometimes we take our, uh, we always keep our aluminum cans.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] And a lot of times they take them over to one of these can banks.
[speaker001:] Yeah, I've seen those.
[speaker002:] You don't get too much money back. I figure it pays for the gas to take my cans over there.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] But normally I collect, oh, like three trash bags full
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] and I take them over to that can bank and it's more fun just to kind of like crunch the cans [LAUGHTER],
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] in the can bank. Don't get too much money for them but,
[speaker001:] Well, you get something [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Uh,
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] We used to do that, but, again, that's another stop
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and it doesn't take plastic bags and, and all that sort of thing, but, uh, I think that, you know, I heard that it was going well in the pilot area wherever that is and
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] so hopefully they'll do it soon. That would be good because we have two trash pick ups a week
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and, where I grew up we only had one a week and that was certainly sufficient. So if they just do, one of them will be trash and the alternate time would be recyclables, that would be great.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] So,
[speaker002:] Yeah. Uh, I'm disappointed sometimes they're not always consistent in picking up those papers, you know. I seem to put them out there
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] on Wednesday and like sometimes they come by, sometimes they don't.
[speaker001:] Oh.
[speaker002:] I'm not really sure why they're not always consistent in that.
[speaker001:] Um.
[speaker002:] But I could certainly have, uh, three bins out there for, you know, plastic and
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] and tin and paper, whatever they were going to, uh, separate into and, and have them pick it up on, on one of the two days per week. That would be easy.
[speaker001:] Yeah. Do you have to, uh, sort the paper and take out the glossy pages and that, that sort of thing or do they take the whole thing?
[speaker002:] You're not supposed to have, like the coupons in there.
[speaker001:] Oh, okay.
[speaker002:] Uh, or you're not supposed to put magazines in there
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] and you can't take newspapers. Now at work, uh, you know, we have changed our recycling. At first they were kind of finicky about what kind of paper you could recycle. And not too long ago they finally decided if it's anything that's paper and tears, you can throw it in there because at first
[speaker001:] Let me guess
[speaker002:] they said,
[speaker001:] you work at T I, right?
[speaker002:] Yeah, at first they said,
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] So do I.
[speaker002:] They said, no telephone books.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] You know, well, that's stupid and then they
[speaker001:] Um.
[speaker002:] said no newspapers. Well, in the, my department everybody gets the WALL STREET JOURNAL.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] There was like a lot of paper coming out of our department that wasn't recyclable.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] So I thought that was pretty good to expand upon it, say,
[speaker001:] Well, and they take cans, now, too.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Which is great.
[speaker002:] I still put my cans in with the cans. I mean, I don't want it with paper. Somehow that just seems weird to me [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Well, our department used to collect the cans anyway for the Christmas tree project. And,
[speaker002:] Oh.
[speaker001:] In fact we got, this past year, we got all of our money for the Christmas tree because we saved cans for the entire year.
[speaker002:] Ooh.
[speaker001:] And it worked out really well.
[speaker002:] Well, we had the one person who used to take things to the Dallas Shelter.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] I think that's what that was called.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] She collected, she used to collect from the whole department, but she took them all down to that Dallas Shelter place.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] I wish I could remember the whole name of that place, but it's a charity for the benefit of this shelter.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And, yeah, she, u-, she used to collect them from everybody in the department.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] She'd go up and down with her little bag [LAUGHTER]
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] collecting
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] from everybody.
[speaker001:] Because we would get it,

[speaker001:] Gun control seems to be a rather, uh, timely topic, with all that's going on legislation wise.
[speaker002:] Yes [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] And, uh, the, the interesting scale that they assigned it, uh, the one being a banned and ten being no regulations or totally free [breathing]. I'd have to put myself pretty much in the middle, I guess. I, I don't mind regulating all of the, the guns and I would certainly call for a ban on certain types. Now the, the wisdom as to which types, that's going to be a debate forever, I would assume. Uh, the method of, of controlling it, well that's all into how much money you want to put into the, the controls. Uh, one point that was made in the [breathing] House hearings or the representative stood up and said, you know, we can check a guy's credit card instantly, but, uh, we don't want to check his background, and of course those are two different issues as far as privacy goes
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] uh, but there still, the, the technology exists to, to check it if they want. So, it's, it's kind of a, [breathing] I guess you could put a dollar figure on it if you really want to make that kind of an effort and regulate it like that. And then you've got the group of people that decide that there's, there's no particular reason to have them at all and you got to balance those against the ones that say there is some sport to it and I guess I would fall more in the, the realm that I like the sport issue of it, but I, I could give it up without too much trouble, not the world's most pleasurable thing and it costs a bit to do it,
[speaker002:] Yes [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] uh, finding ranges and things like that.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] Uh, I have shot a variety of guns for a number of years, but it's just not like golf or whatever. I mean there are other things that you could go do. So, uh, I, I don't see the, the joy of shooting as, as that much of a driving factor. I think that society could easily swing the scales the other direction just for the sake of safety of the number of kids that tend to get hurt,
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] I don't even keep the gun in our house,
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] so I don't have that problem, but, uh, [breathing] it's a hard, hard topic, I guess. A lot of people have a hard issue, a lot of hard feelings about it.
[speaker002:] They do, and you, boy you can get them on either side and just like you say, uh, well I think I, I guess I'd have to place myself, uh, probably seven or eight [LAUGHTER], because, or not, w-, w-, onto no control, I'm sorry, excuse me, that, uh, two or three.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] I was going the wrong direction. Uh, because of, we had a neighbor child that was killed by another child
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] because they had a gun in the house and the father kept the bullets in a separate place, but the little boy was five years old and was intelligent enough to, uh, he knew where booth, both places were, loaded the gun and they were playing cowboys and Indians and he shot the other little boy right between the eyes.
[speaker001:] Boy.
[speaker002:] So, uh, I mean it, it destroyed two families
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] uh, in just that instant and, and I, a lot of people say that they need it for protection, uh, having worked at one time in Baltimore, or, I don't know if you're in the big city,
[speaker001:] Dallas.
[speaker002:] are you, Dallas?
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] That's a big city [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] Uh, then you know that, uh, uh, if you live anywhere real close that, uh, the safety is, uh, some people argue that they need a gun to make sure that they aren't going to get shot because of the incidences of break ins and, you know. But, uh, uh, we have never had a gun in the house with my children growing up. Uh, I, uh, once, uh, uh, knew a fellow that had, had been a policeman and he said that if you pull a gun on a robber, he's going to assume that you know how to use it well, and he's going to, you know, try to shoot first.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] Uh, [LAUGHTER] so, you know, if he's got one. Uh, and if not, uh, then usually they, uh, if he's got a knife or whatever that can throw it at you, I mean, you know
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] they, they, he said that it, it was better not to have, especially myself, now I'm a widow, and, uh, I, so I'm, when my handicapped son is, is not at home, I'm by myself, but, uh, there's, I still won't have a gun in the house because he said it's really [breathing], uh, playing Russian Roulette if you do [LAUGHTER]. Uh,
[speaker001:] Yeah. About the only circumstances that they'd be of any value is when you happen to already know that the, the, person was coming your way. Once you're surprised, it's too late.
[speaker002:] That's right.
[speaker001:] And, and the rare,
[speaker002:] That's right.
[speaker001:] circum-, you know, the very few of those burglaries actually occur in such a way that you knew the guy was coming,
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] and had time to do anything about it.
[speaker002:] That's right.
[speaker001:] And, I don't have that problem, as I don't use that argument as saying it's worth keeping one. In the, uh, N R As, uh, claim that the, uh, the constitutional, the right to bear arms and that whole statement, uh, it's hard to know the original intent, but I, I don't see it as that, that difficult of a [breathing] story to believe when the opposition says that, uh, yeah, it's the right to, to arm a militia and, as opposed to just the general public.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] And you have a, you have a earn a right, not just a privilege as it were if you're going to serve in the militia, then you have a right to have that arm, but, uh,
[speaker002:] That's right.
[speaker001:] you know, there's all sorts of arguments there
[speaker002:] I know [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] but, I don't even want to worry about what the original intent was,
[speaker002:] No.
[speaker001:] they didn't have this problem back then [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] No, that's true. That,
[speaker001:] So, we change our rights with our social status.
[speaker002:] That's, that's right, that's right.
[speaker001:] They're man given rights and they can be taken away by a man, so,
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] [Breathing] uh, the people that hide behind that, I don't worry about. They can go live in another country if they want.
[speaker002:] Well, yeah, that's how I feel, too. I know, well, e-, even here where I work, uh, we have a, a gun club. And, of course, those people are very avid. They, you know,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] they say there should be no ban, that it's not, but I can't see why any, uh, o-, on the street citizen should be able to be allowed to have a machine gun.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] Uh, you know, when you were talking about maybe what kind of guns that would be hard to decide, but there are a few guns that, uh, just are not, uh, sport, or, I mean, I don't know too many people that use a machine gun to go sport hunting either [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] So, uh, I, I think they should have at least some control over, over those things. Uh, and when you were speaking about how they can check up, you know, on credit cards, well, I, I understand about the privacy act and everything, but why can't they check to see if the person who is applying for this gun has had a record or not. That, to me, would not be an unreasonable thing.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] And if they do, course the argument with the people in the gun club, uh, is that, uh, well the people that are going to get guns are the ones that are going to steal them anyway.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] And so, it's not going to be that they're buying them. Course, some of them do.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] So it, it is a hard question [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Tends to, tends to strap only the legitimate people. Most regulation does [LAUGHTER],
[speaker002:] Right, oh, yeah.
[speaker001:] and, most, it's very difficult to, uh, legislate, uh, crooks or whatever you want, however you want to word it
[speaker002:] That's right.
[speaker001:] so it's, well, this may be a never ending topic. I got a couple of calls waiting on me, so I'd better let you go.
[speaker002:] Okay, well thanks for talking.
[speaker001:] Okay, bye.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] Bye-bye now.

[speaker001:] Okay, we, we can, uh, be recorded while we talk about it.
[speaker002:] Okay, well is your, does your city have mandatory, uh, recycling?
[speaker001:] No, we don't have mandatory. We, actually, we're kind of slow up here, and we've just started doing recycling probably last summer. And it's all voluntary. So that's interesting. Cities have a mandatory recycling?
[speaker002:] Um, there, there're some places that are strongly encouraging it, and that they city will pick it up. That's been one of the arguments here. I'm just sitting here looking. We've got four bins of glass and plasticine [phonetically spelled] stuff. But we have to carry it, uh, some distance, and some places, um, you can sell your, uh, recyclables, and, for example, our church was collecting newspapers.
[speaker001:] Yeah, when I was a kid we used to collect newspapers and bring them to a recycle thing. We got like a penny a pound for them.
[speaker002:] Well, it turns out that so much, the problem in Texas is that, uh, they've got so much paper now from people recycling that they've got no way to, uh, reprocess it.
[speaker001:] Oh, my,
[speaker002:] It requires an ex-, it requires essentially a paper mill to recycle it, and so the value has gone down. It turns out it wasn't worth for the church to do.
[speaker001:] Oh, I didn't realize, you would think, now up here, I, I suppose they send it all back to the mill and there are paper mills within a couple of hundred miles of, uh. Actually there is one in northern Vermont. So there's probably a paper mill that's sixty miles from here. I didn't think that, you know, in the large city that if the next recycling, if the next mill is more like five hundred miles away
[speaker002:] Well,
[speaker001:] it's a lot of money to transport.
[speaker002:] Yeah, well see, that's, in, in Dallas there no plan to build, I think there, there's some in East Texas there's some pulp mills, but, uh, you have to go to Houston, and, it's interesting, and then there's places that will buy metal and they still buy aluminum can and likes that. *can -] cans? likes -] like?
[speaker001:] Do you have to buy metal, like copper is a very good one to collect. Even aluminum, yeah, so.
[speaker002:] Well, do you do, do you do recycling?
[speaker001:] Uh, we do the recycling, and our city will pick up our recyclables.
[speaker002:] Oh.
[speaker001:] They have these little blue bins. Um, I don't recycle personally. I, I'm saying I want to do it, but, I don't get a lot of magazines, I don't get a, I don't buy the newspaper, but I do have a lot of, uh, my trash has a lot of tin cans and a lot of cart-, a lot of different papers and cardboards.
[speaker002:] Well, do you drink soda and such in aluminum cans?
[speaker001:] Yes, but we have a bottle return. A lot of the northern states and a lot of the Eastern states have bottles. We've had five cent deposits on our bottles for years.
[speaker002:] Oh, so it's worth taking them back. Well, see, we don't have. We have, we have most of our soft drinks are in plastic liter or two liter bottles.
[speaker001:] Oh, they should definitely get, um, the nickel returnable. It's great for the kids, because see, a lot of the kids get the money from it, and it's great for the boy scouts running around, they knock door to door and the collect the bottles sometimes.
[speaker002:] Oh, that's it, you'll, you'll, there is a down side to all this, you know, about no good deed going unpunished,
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] that, uh, my mother sells, um, trees that they make paper out of, and so every time I recycle newspapers, in fact there's a, there's a, uh, Kimberly and Clark, the makers of kleenex and such
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] has a, uh, a big paper mill. In fact I almost went to work for them. I was offered a job and turned it down because my mother got it for me. It's twenty or thirty miles from my house. Every time you recycle, that's one less tree my mother can sell, and, uh. So, it's a question should I be diligent and, um,
[speaker001:] And recycle.
[speaker002:] and, and recycle, and put my mother out of her livelihood.
[speaker001:] Oh, yes, I see that.
[speaker002:] But, it's an interesting point, though, that, you know, everybody's so anxious to recycle, and I suppose it does provide some gainful employment, but,
[speaker001:] But it takes away employment from the resource and its.
[speaker002:] Well, but in general I think it's a good idea because
[speaker001:] I do, too.
[speaker002:] like the glass, you can't argue that the glass, it doesn't biodegrade, and, and, uh, the plastics obviously,
[speaker001:] They don't either [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] So we might as well recycle those.
[speaker001:] Yeah, like I say, it's not a very controversial thing. Everyone thinks we should do it. It's just that we're so lazy, I mean, like personally, I don't want to clean my, I just have can cat food. I don't want to clean the can and take the label off it, and put it in a separate bin.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] You know, I'd just rather get rid of that thing and throw it in the trash.
[speaker002:] Well, that's what we've got. We started about, New Year's we decided we'd get ambitious. Well, we took one load over there, and now we've got these containers filling up with stuff, and, you know, it's not a very high priority thing to go haul these containers over there.
[speaker001:] Yeah, I think I would be like, when I bring my bottles back. If they're pretty clean and stuff, so they can sit in my cellar for a couple of months, and I get a whole bunch of them and bring them ov-, and bring them over. Now, if I had a recycling center and I kept it clean, like if I washed all the cans and things, I wouldn't mind if it sat around too much, but if, if it stunk or something I wouldn't like doing it. But, um, I produce quite a bit of trash, my, you know, house, and I see it, but I don't see so much that I can recycle.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Like I say, it's a lot of different type paper and cardboard. I'm not a real plastic person user, but a lot of paper, um, pretty much, and I don't know how they sort that. But if, if I used a lot of can goods and I do use a lot of laundry detergent and a lot of plastic bottles, I would think that I wou-, I would have a recycling center. But now, it's just me and my husband, so, I don't know.
[speaker002:] But every little bit helps, right.
[speaker001:] Yeah, I know what you're saying. But we have, we have a very aggressive recycling at work, and I'm the one who will pick the newspaper out of the trash and bring it to the recycle bin. See, some people, it's, the recycle bin is on their way out. Instead of carrying your newspapers, when they get done with them at the end of the day, they throw them in the trash.
[speaker002:] Well, do you have separate trash cans at your desk.
[speaker001:] Um, no, we don't, but other, other offices do. They have a box for papers.
[speaker002:] Well, we have, we have one that's recyclable and, and then for uh, lunch sacks and waste food and they gave us a list of things that aren't re-, and it turns out it's not so bad. I, I get a lot of reports that, that are covered in plastic or plas-, like saran wrap or something, {D anyway, } and then, uh, cardboard, there's a few, it's interesting that we're, we're recycling computer type paper.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] And, and, uh, one day they'll pick up, uh, the cleaning people come through and they'll pick up recycled paper, and then the next day they'll pick up the other, so.
[speaker001:] Oh.
[speaker002:] Depending on how much, you know, and there's a lot of, actually, it works pretty well, and then we have a, uh, waste, uh, cans for aluminum in the, in the break areas at work.
[speaker001:] Well, that's, that's a really good idea, because, um, like our, uh, fruit juices for some reason when they're in a can don't come with a deposit.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] And they're thinking about putting a deposit on them, because pretty much you have to, you're having a whole separate recyclable bin just for these fruit cans, where they're
[speaker002:] Yeah,
[speaker001:] so much easier just to put a deposit on it, because most, probably ninety percent of the aluminum cans do have deposits, because they're beer and soda, but when they sell juice, it's some strange quirk in the law, you don't have to have a deposit on it. And even like, the, a very fine juice jar does not have to have a deposit on it, but if it's got soda in it, it does. So, it's a strange.
[speaker002:] That's an interesting distinction.
[speaker001:] Yeah, they should, they should clean, clear that up. It wouldn't take them much to put a stamp on the, uh, juice cans as easily as the soda.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] So, but redemption centers are a big thing up here, they get a penny a can they handle. They give you five cents when they return the can to the distributor. I think they either get a penny or two pennies a can.
[speaker002:] Well, see, well, see, those of us that don't have state income taxes, yet
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] that's the big debate here in Texas, that the legislature wants to put one in, and, it's interesting what people get upset about, uh, it really is.
[speaker001:] Is bot-, is bottle return down there a heated debate?
[speaker002:] Well, no, the, the big issue was, is, is, when we moved here a few years ago, is whether it was okay for you, to, uh, drink beer while you were driving your pickup truck.
[speaker001:] Oh, yeah.
[speaker002:] And throw it out at the in uh,
[speaker001:] Well, we, well, here you can't drink,
[speaker002:] We're not civilized now, you can no longer, you cannot drink beer and drive, but
[speaker001:] Well.
[speaker002:] but it was, it was actually legal.
[speaker001:] Yes, well, I know, I was in Atlanta, and you could walk out the bar with your drink in your hand. But here, Let me put that in a paper cup for you.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker001:] So that was strange. But, I think, if some people they have, they say, well, we're not going to start a can deposit because you have to get all these, um, the, the recycle center, you have to deal with the can and then you have to, to recycle it, and, their problem's already solved because they can just come to states that do have bottle deposits
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] see how they handle it, and see if it's a good way, and then do it that way. Because, as, like I say, people are making money on it.
[speaker002:] Well, you know, the other,
[speaker001:] The cans do, are worth something.
[speaker002:] Well the other thing is, it also is, is a, is a, a good habit, uh, to, uh, just to conserve resources, you know, where they, you know, because you get in the habit of that, you think in terms of, of, uh, of, of things like saving

[speaker001:] okay sorry
[speaker002:] wow that's okay so tell me about your home
[speaker001:] oh it's uh it looks like a little shot gun house almost it's got three bedrooms going along one side and the living room and kitchen on the other
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] it's uh an older home it's not new I like it though it's big
[speaker002:] oh really what kind of square footage
[speaker001:] oh I wouldn't know I measured it one time because I was uh we had saw some termites and we thought about getting it sprayed I think it was like I can't remember I'm sorry
[speaker002:] that's okay that's okay
[speaker001:] it's big enough for us though we kind of need maybe one more room we've got two children
[speaker002:] uh-huh uh-huh okay so where do you live at I mean what what part of town
[speaker001:] in here in Dennison
[speaker002:] okay let's see that's north
[speaker001:] or down here in Dennison yeah
[speaker002:] okay I live I live in Plano so it's north to me
[speaker001:] okay up here then I say down I'm really from Kentucky
[speaker002:] I was going to say you didn't have the typical you have a southern accent but you don't have a Texas accent
[speaker001:] uh-huh right
[speaker002:] well I'm originally from uh Ohio Cincinnati so I'm familiar uh familiar with uh
[speaker001:] oh okay that area that dialect
[speaker002:] right right also I lived in Georgia for about four years so the uh there's a difference too between east and west in the south
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] and uh the way in which people speak anyway my home is um I guess it's about twenty five hundred square foot and I have uh four bedrooms at the present we're busting out walls and things like that
[speaker001:] that's what I want to do how many kids do you have
[speaker002:] we have two
[speaker001:] do you have enough bedroom space then
[speaker002:] we have two yeah we'll have enough bedroom space it's we're rearranging our house because the bedrooms are kind of small
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] and so we're going to enlarge our master bedroom and take out a couple of walls and enlarge it and then shuffle the rooms around a little bit
[speaker001:] that's kind of like what we would like to do we just had a baby a couple months ago and we've got a den that's more or less a spare room we rarely go in there except for to play chess
[speaker002:] um-hum um-hum
[speaker001:] we want to make that a bedroom for my stepdaughter and my daughter and uh
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] we need the one extra room like like I said our rooms are too small the bedrooms are too small the living room and kitchen are huge but the bedrooms are too small where you've got to
[speaker002:] right
[speaker001:] leave the furniture just one certain way you can't rearrange it at all
[speaker002:] right there's they uh I know what you're saying there ours is the same and they tend to put windows in the strangest places
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] You know we have windows in our bathrooms which really makes it difficult for
[speaker001:] yeah we've got two great big windows in our back bathroom
[speaker002:] um-hum you you're kind of limited in what you can do there and everything so
[speaker001:] uh-huh no privacy
[speaker002:] uh no we don't have a lot of that yeah
[speaker001:] well we've got at least two windows on every wall in the house it
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] I'd hate to clean these windows I really would
[speaker002:] I figured I'm going to have to hire somebody to remove our windows and put new ones in that are easier to clean ours are the double pane and you can't really clean them on the inside
[speaker001:] ours are those too yeah you must live in an older home too then
[speaker002:] you know right I do the house is about um I'd say almost thirty years old
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] so it's not a new home it's it's seen some wear and tear
[speaker001:] ours has too now when we moved in the man that sold it to us had said he had remodeled it
[speaker002:] you know um-hum
[speaker001:] and he did it hisself so most of that by now is falling apart
[speaker002:] oh
[speaker001:] you know well I mean it's not just horrible but like this tiles come loose off the wall the whole bathroom is covered from ceiling to foot in tile and I don't like that at all
[speaker002:] um oh that is awful
[speaker001:] with that uh the great big tiles square tiles like that you put on the floor
[speaker002:] uh-huh he did it in that
[speaker001:] the the huge one yeah instead of wallpaper I wouldn't mind it if it was like short tiles for that
[speaker002:] the normal tiles right
[speaker001:] you put right that you put around a bathtub that would be prettier
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] but this looks like floor covering on the wall it just doesn't look good
[speaker002:] oh and also they're very heavy and so they tend to come off a whole lot easier
[speaker001:] right there's one big one that has come off and short of putting nails through it we can't get it back on
[speaker002:] um
[speaker001:] so and he rewired the house and it's shorting out here and there and
[speaker002:] oh wow I that's one of the things we've been fortunate with is our wiring been okay we don't have a we don't have enough power
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] um our our breakers aren't aren't powerful enough to take to to really help with the load in the house I mean we need to redo some rewiring ourselves but our plumbing is awful there is nothing there is a shut off valve that's outside that doesn't work
[speaker001:] uh-huh um
[speaker002:] and there's no other real shut off valves inside the house so if something breaks we have to shut it off from the main in the street you know and oh it's it can be really bizarre and we never know where it's going to flood
[speaker001:] yeah yeah we've got power surges on the west side of our house we've got our stereo hooked up
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] well that the power makes it run it's never ran it's always ran just fine the clock and stuff but it runs about ten minutes fast except for about a month for about a month the the clock ran normal
[speaker002:] um-hum um
[speaker001:] and then the power went off again lightning or something knocked it out and we hooked it back up and now it's running ten or fifteen minutes fast again but on the east side of the house it runs fine
[speaker002:] um oh boy you do have a strange wiring problem there
[speaker001:] he put new wiring in it's all new wiring up in the attic or I guess crawl space
[speaker002:] um-hum uh-huh
[speaker001:] but uh oh no he didn't know what he was doing he really should have hired people
[speaker002:] well that's something my husband's in construction and he won't even touch electrical stuff he I I mean he'll do a little minimal things but he won't do any major rewiring he says he'd rather pay the electrician to handle it
[speaker001:] right he'll end up killing himself
[speaker002:] pardon
[speaker001:] end up killing theirselves
[speaker002:] that's right
[speaker001:] my husband he'll change out a light switch but that's about as far as he'll go
[speaker002:] well that's the way mine is you know I mean he he well he said he went up in the attic and looked around and he was like
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] oh my God he says looks like a bunch of spaghetti up there and we had squirrels in our attic when we first moved in because the roof was so sorry
[speaker001:] uh was a what
[speaker002:] the roof was really sorry I mean when we moved in we had no idea how bad it was it was a wood shingle roof and we the first year we were living there we had to replace the roof
[speaker001:] uh-huh well he put which I heard it's a law that you're only allowed to have three layers of shingles is it three or five your husband probably knows
[speaker002:] he probably knows I don't know what it is off hand
[speaker001:] well he's got seven layers of shingles up there and he told us it was a completely new roof like I said he didn't know what he was doing
[speaker002:] yeah he must not of we stripped ours we stripped ours off we didn't put it over because we put composition roof on and we completely stripped completely stripped all the old wood shingles off put decking up
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] put the paper down and I mean just started from scratch unfortunately when we were doing that it decided it wanted to snow and hail and rain and we and we had we had almost I'd say about half of the roof off
[speaker001:] uh-huh oh no and uh uh a house full of snow
[speaker002:] and it did this and a house full of snow and rain and it came down it did this in the middle of the night we have plastic you know just tied down on everything you know as best we could real thick gauge stuff I mean and the wind came in from the north and just blew everything off in the middle of the night and we were asleep and and I woke up and I got up and it was about four o'clock in the morning and I heard all these these drips drip drip drip drip drip drip
[speaker001:] oh no
[speaker002:] I had water coming in every light fixture
[speaker001:] that's yeah
[speaker002:] I had water coming in everything that was in the ceiling everywhere and I mean it filled up my light fixtures because they're the old kind
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] and I would go in and I'd turn on a light in the room you know and the light would come on and the whole thing would be full of water and I mean the light would still come on it didn't blow up or anything
[speaker001:] my neighbor or a friend of mine when I lived in Louisiana her we all lived on base my husband was in the Army
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] she woke up about three or four o'clock in the morning water dripping from hers the neighbor's uh washing machine had uh overdone something I don't know but it was leaking just pouring water and it all went through to her roof and it was coming out of the lights fixtures
[speaker002:] oh
[speaker001:] the fire alarm went off for some reason it shorted it out or something so she woke up with about six
[speaker002:] oh yeah that'll happen
[speaker001:] feet of water in her house
[speaker002:] oh my Lord
[speaker001:] no not six feet but
[speaker002:] but it's quite a bit quite a bit you know that
[speaker001:] yeah you might as well so did you have carpets and stuff
[speaker002:] oh several of our rooms got ruined we have um we have are on pier and beam we don't have concrete slab underneath our house
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] so it it got into the carpeting got into the floor the carpeting was already awful anyway but it got into the floor and rotted the floor and made it stink so
[speaker001:] your house sounds like mine because mine's pier and beam too
[speaker002:] oh really
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] yeah they came in and they had it one room they completely cut up the floor in and removed it we had to call the insurance company I mean the insurance company was paying for the new roof but they also ended up having to pay for the damage when the roof roof was being repaired
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] you know which really wasn't our fault I mean we'd done everything we could to keep out the weather
[speaker001:] that's right right
[speaker002:] you know and stuff and
[speaker001:] well you got to redo it the way you wanted it in are you finished with it now
[speaker002:] oh yeah it it uh the roof oh yeah yeah it's it's been done for quite some time we're really glad with all the rain we've had in the last couple of years that we have a really good roof
[speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh how long have you lived there
[speaker002:] uh see it's three it's just been at at three years we've been in the house just the three years we've been doing a lot of remodeling I mean it's it had a detached it had a drive detached garage and my husband's built a walkway across and we're going to brick up the garage to match the house and things like that so we
[speaker001:] you all did it yourselves
[speaker002:] what uh the walk
[speaker001:] the home improvements
[speaker002:] oh yeah yeah he see he does this for a living I mean this is what
[speaker001:] uh-huh

[speaker001:] Good morning.
[speaker002:] Hi.
[speaker001:] My name is Jean.
[speaker002:] I'm Tina.
[speaker001:] Oh, where you from Tina?
[speaker002:] I live in Garland, Texas.
[speaker001:] Oh, Garland, Texas, I'm in Pennsylvania.
[speaker002:] Oh, my lands, [LAUGHTER] you're the farthest person I've ever talked to.
[speaker001:] Really? [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Do you work for Texas Instruments?
[speaker002:] My husband does.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Yeah. Probably most people you talk to do, huh?
[speaker001:] Most of them do. [LAUGHTER] Now, I don't have anybody that works for T I, but, uh
[speaker002:] Huh.
[speaker001:] my son works for a computer company, the National Institute of s-, s-, something, I don't know what [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] I see, well that's neat.
[speaker001:] So, I guess we're supposed to talk about foods today.
[speaker002:] Yeah, I guess you have to push one, though.
[speaker001:] Yes, uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Okay.
[speaker001:] You ready?
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Okay. Uh, foods like you would for a dinner party or something like that.
[speaker002:] Yeah, I guess so, it may be interesting, because probably here in Texas, we may eat a little differently than you do up there [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Well, I don't know, my brother lives down East of us down there, and I don't think they ate all that much different [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Oh, really.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Uh, I think as long as you plan your basic foods, course, for a dinner party, you fancy things up a little bit more.
[speaker002:] Yeah, that's true.
[speaker001:] Uh.
[speaker002:] Well, uh, the thing that I found interesting, my husband and I lived up in Washington State for awhile
[speaker001:] Uh-huh, uh-huh.
[speaker002:] and up there, of course they ate a lot of sea food,
[speaker001:] Oh, uh-huh.
[speaker002:] and that kind of thing, and down here, sea food is pretty expensive, because,
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] you have to ship it a long way to get it [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Yeah, and it's not as good as if it's fresh.
[speaker002:] Right, and, and, uh, and, but here, we eat a lot of like Mexican foods,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] and, um, [lipsmack] up there there was no, no place that we went tasted like real Mexican food to me.
[speaker001:] Is that right?
[speaker002:] Yeah, it tasted like they were trying [NOISE] to do the best they could, but it just,
[speaker001:] Yeah,
[speaker002:] didn't taste right.
[speaker001:] well, they probably were trying to do the best they could.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] and, uh, down here, we eat a lot more fried foods, I think.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Like chicken fried steak,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] is a real big thing.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Up there, uh, it was hardly ever heard of and,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] we drink ice tea with every meal,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] and up there hardly anyone drank ice tea [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Yeah, well they do in the summertime, I think that
[speaker002:] Really?
[speaker001:] tea is big in the summertime mostly.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Of course, you have warmer weather most of the time.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] So, uh,
[speaker002:] Yeah, it never gets real cold.
[speaker001:] Yeah. So, I,
[speaker002:] Yeah, but when, when we have a dinner party around here, I think a lot of the time a Mexican menu is something real popular.
[speaker001:] Is that right?
[speaker002:] Yeah. I know that, um, I do a lot of planning with our church,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] and a lot of the times when we get together, well everybody will bring a Mexican dish or.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh, uh-huh
[speaker002:] And Italian food is real big too.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh. More like covered dishes for those type of dinners.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh. Yeah. Yeah.
[speaker001:] .
[speaker002:] How about you, what is real popular up there?
[speaker001:] Well, I don't know, just about anything [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Oh, really.
[speaker001:] Yeah, we, we really, uh, use most anything. I, uh, I think like parties and that though are, well, like we had a dinner party here, here not too long ago with a mystery dinner party [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Oh.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] But, basically, we tried, you know, included all the basic, uh, foods that you are supposed to have in a meal.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Your, uh, bread family and your, or least what it used to be the regular menu was followed and,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] ham and bake potatoes, uh,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] uh, something from each, each area that you're supposed to choose from.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] And, uh, we, we, we ourselves are into the wok cooking, you know they been advertising that and,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] we've really been enjoying those, uh, meals.
[speaker002:] Well, that's good.
[speaker001:] They have a lot of vegetable to them, and, uh,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh, right.
[speaker001:] they really are very good.
[speaker002:] Oh, yes. I, I love that kind of cooking. My, uh, unfortunately, I am married to a man and have two children that eat about four things [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Is he a meat and potato person?
[speaker002:] Right. [LAUGHTER] They.
[speaker001:] Well, all our family is, is gone. They are out on their own.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] And, uh.
[speaker002:] That probably makes it easier, but.
[speaker001:] It, it's much different and, uh.
[speaker002:] Yeah. We find ourselves eating a lot of macaroni and cheese and, uh,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh, uh-huh.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] and of course,
[speaker001:] Well, my husband didn't like that, so we, us kids, we had five children and we ate that when he, he wasn't going to be home for supper,
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] that's what we had [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Yeah, well, that's pretty much what we do, if dad's not coming home, we have macaroni and cheese,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] or something. But, they like, uh, spaghetti.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] You know, that's one meal,
[speaker001:] Uh, yeah.
[speaker002:] I can fix and the whole family eats. But, uh, there are several things that, well as a matter of fact, I keep chicken nuggets handy all the time, because.
[speaker001:] Oh, those always go good.
[speaker002:] Yeah, the children love them,
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] and, uh, they are real easy to cook and,
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] that way, whatever meat we have, if they don't like it, well, and my girls don't like beef, I,
[speaker001:] Oh really.
[speaker002:] don't know,
[speaker001:] Well maybe.
[speaker002:] I guess,
[speaker001:] that's good the way, way the things are going.
[speaker002:] Well, yeah, it could be, bec-, they don't, I think it's the texture of it,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] but it takes more chewing [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Right. [LAUGHTER] Children usually they like the ham and the hamburgers,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and that, and it is easier to chew.
[speaker002:] Right. Right. So they're not too much into beef.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] My husband and I eat more beef than we should, but at least we keep our chicken nuggets handy for them [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Right. [LAUGHTER] We don't really have, uh, you know, entertain too much.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] I don't know if you do or not, but we, we don't a whole lot, we're more, once in a while, but mostly family,
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] activities.
[speaker002:] Well, most of the entertaining we do is church associated.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] We have a real tiny little house, we don't have room really,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] to have people here.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh, uh-huh.
[speaker002:] But, we do get together for wh-, fellowships at our church,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] and, my husband and I do a lot of the planning in that.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] And,
[speaker001:] Well that's good.
[speaker002:] Yeah, it is and it's fun to, uh, I like just having a pot luck meal where everyone brings their favorite dish.
[speaker001:] Yeah, we do a lot of that take,
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] things to church and our homemakers meet at the church also, and, uh,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] that's what we do mostly,
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] most of the time for that.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] So, you don't really include any certain food groups, you just bring,
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] what you like [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] That's right [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Sometimes you have all desserts, sometimes,
[speaker002:] Yeah [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] you have all vegetables [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Yeah, that's true, [LAUGHTER] that's the only problem with just letting you bring whatever,
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] you, uh, like best.
[speaker001:] But, it doesn't happen very often, usually you get a pretty wide variety and you can, you can,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] have pretty good meals,
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] from one of those.
[speaker002:] Yeah. I remember one time we had a progressive dinner.
[speaker001:] Oh, those are fun.
[speaker002:] It's the only time that ever. Yeah they are.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] But it's the only time tha-, I can remember that, I can't remember what food it was I, it might have been the main dish that hardly anyone showed up with. Several people were supposed to bring,
[speaker001:] Uh, uh-huh.
[speaker002:] you know, each, like, uh, a, an appetizer,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] and a main dish and a dessert. And we had tons of desserts and tons of appetizers and,
[speaker001:] Oh, uh-huh ,
[speaker002:] but when we came to the main, main dish plate,
[speaker001:] Oh.
[speaker002:] there was only like two or three [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Was there enough to go around? [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Well, not really, you know we all took real tiny little portions,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] and, uh, were kind of angry with whoever it was, we were not sure who didn't show up with the food [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Yeah, that's kind of irresponsible and does upset you, because they are grown adults usually [LAUGHTER],
[speaker002:] Yes.
[speaker001:] and you know they know better.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] Even if they can't do it, they can always maybe get somebody else to cook.
[speaker002:] Right. Either, either go ahead and fix your dish or call someone that can.
[speaker001:] Right. Right.
[speaker002:] I know it. Well, that sounds neat, I can't, uh, believe you're so far away, but you sound so close.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] They said that we could share, we share,
[speaker002:] It sounds like you're here in Dallas.
[speaker001:] a recipe but, I'm up at my daughter's, I don't even have any of my recipes with me.
[speaker002:] Oh.
[speaker001:] Uh, you know,
[speaker002:] I don't know if I have anything handy, we were just about, we were getting ready to go swimming,
[speaker001:] Oh.
[speaker002:] and we're waiting on my sister.
[speaker001:] Oh, great.
[speaker002:] Cara, hold on just a second [to another person in the room] As a matter of fact, my,
[speaker001:] They are ready to go.
[speaker002:] little one is hollering [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Well, we probably, have we talked long enough I,
[speaker002:] I think it probably has been.
[speaker001:] Okay, so I'll let,
[speaker002:] So, I've enjoyed talking to you.
[speaker001:] Oh, same here. You have a good day.
[speaker002:] Thank you. Thanks for calling.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Bye-bye.
[speaker001:] Bye-bye.

[speaker001:] so have you heard about Saturns
[speaker002:] I've heard some about Saturns I don't know a lot about them I haven't been over uh to a dealer to look at them although I did see something in tonight's paper that said that their uh reliability is rated to be equal to that of the I guess the Japanese cars
[speaker001:] ooh that's great actually that's kind of the type of car that I I'm thinking about we might get Saturns you can't go to a dealer unless you go to a a Saturn dealer
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] yeah this this offshoot of GM
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] and uh supposedly they've got great customer  satisfaction from what things I've heard
[speaker002:] hm yeah I've heard a lot of people like them uh yeah I don't know whether whether I would buy Saturn or not at this point I'm kind of my card and uh desires tend to be pretty picky and so uh
[speaker001:] well like what
[speaker002:] well let's see I like I like cars that are designed with with human beings in mind and that's not just the driver and the passenger but that's the person whose working on it because I do almost almost all my own maintenance and uh those types of things and I found that while you can find some cars that are comfortable to ride in uh finding a car car anymore that's that's fairly easy for me to work on it just not very easy it's not very almost unlikely at this point
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] and uh
[speaker001:] yeah I've got a sixty five Mustang and I and I do the work on most of the work on that myself
[speaker002:] ooh um-hum
[speaker001:] and when I look at modern cars and stuff like I just say I will never do that with the modern cars it's not worth my time you can't get in there you can't do anything
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] and it's so complicated too I look at it and I say boy you know I I'd have to almost go take a class or something like that
[speaker002:] well I've got an eighty three Saab
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] and uh I find that for a normal you know everyday things it's really very easy to work on and so uh now I'm kind of spoiled I used to have an old uh Chevy uh with a three fifty in it and uh I really liked working on it
[speaker001:] uh-huh yeah
[speaker002:] ah cause it was pretty easy too it was about a nineteen seventy so I'm kind of uh biased in that and you know I want a car that I can work on because I think it just costs too much even to get the oil changed anymore
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] and that's kind of that's that's probably one thing I'd look at I think another thing I'd look at is safety
[speaker001:] yeah that's one of the things that my wife and I have thought about actually the car one of the cars we'd most like to get would be the new ninety one Ford Taurus because they're actually one of the cheaper cars that have dual side air bags
[speaker002:] hm that's a real nice car I think
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] I've driven some uh Tauruses over the last couple of years when I've been on business trips uh as rental cars and I've always been very impressed
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] with the Tauruses it's a really nice car I think it's very it's a stylish car both inside and out it's comfortable to drive uh reasonable performance and this is out in California where where they don't make a car that's got reasonable performance anymore
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] uh I've been real impressed with that you you and I didn't realize that they were putting dual uh air bags in that car now
[speaker001:] ninety yep then or excuse me the ninety two's the ninety two's had dual air bags this newest model you could get them with duals
[speaker002:] um-hum well I think that that's excellent that's excellent because
[speaker001:] yeah but the thing is is that it's twenty thousand dollars actually my my wife and I are actually thinking contemplating buying a new car in the next year and a half or so so we're actually been looking around and thinking about things we'd like to get like a
[speaker002:] oh
[speaker001:] oh I don't know what do you call it a dealer return type thing on a ninety two and ninety three or something like that you know year old ninety two or something like that
[speaker002:] um-hum um-hum sure
[speaker001:] see if we can
[speaker002:] those are yeah that that'd be a good deal to go with
[speaker001:] and the other thing we're looking at is the Saturns too because they looked really nice
[speaker002:] okay um-hum what do you what do you looking for in in those what attracts what attracts you to the Saturns or or or of course we've already talked you know the Taurus is safe but what what kind of things are you looking for
[speaker001:] well the the Saturns you can get air bags in them I don't think you can get dual side air bags but one of the things the two things that I'm really
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] I'd say the most important thing is a car that's not gonna fall apart that doesn't have problems
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] you set down you look at consumer reports we been pouring over consumer reports and you just get so depressed for the US auto
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] makers when you do that because you see the reliability and the types of problems they have and and the two cars that apparently are close to that that actually have high reliability the Taurus is one of the highest US cars
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] and the other one is are the Saturns
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] so those two things and then you know we kind of want a four door
[speaker002:] okay

[speaker002:] well um with credit cards is me I uh I try to get maybe just one or two I don't I don't like having credit cards for every store I I uh I just don't like them
[speaker001:] what are you afraid of with them
[speaker002:] what am I afraid of um I don't know if I'm really afraid of spending too much I just uh don't think that I need them you know I uh
[speaker001:] yes
[speaker002:] they are tempting at times but I I just you know sometimes I just don't like everybody knowing everything about me you know so
[speaker001:] well that's very can be very very true
[speaker002:] so and the you know everybody just gives you a credit card just so you'll spend money so
[speaker001:] well that's the idea they figure that if they give you a card at no charge for a whole year that you will use it and
[speaker002:] yeah uh-huh that's right see they make money off of it whether you use it or not
[speaker001:] absolutely well the other thing of course is the fact that they hope you will not pay your bill at the end of the month so that you will be paying interest
[speaker002:] that's right uh-huh
[speaker001:] I use mine a great deal um for groceries for everything that I can and then just write one check at the end of the month for the entire thing right
[speaker002:] uh-huh that's what I do that's what I do just a second Whitney I will I'm on the phone honey sorry
[speaker001:] that's all right sounds like you have a little one there oh you have great how old are they
[speaker002:] I have two little ones yeah yeah so that always want some um four and two and half
[speaker001:] oh boy those are two very active age
[speaker002:] yes so yeah um I'm I'm like you I I use my only use my credit card for um you know when I you know I just use it whenever I feel like I don't want to write a check and then but I don't charge anything that I can't payoff at the end of the month
[speaker001:] uh-huh well uh do you uh do you ever use the ATM machines
[speaker002:] so no I never do my husband does at work just to get cash out but uh I take the checkbook so I you know I just if I need cash I just tell him and he gets it out and I don't even think I know my number
[speaker001:] well I find it a great use from the standpoint that you don't have to continue to write checks in order to get cash
[speaker002:] uh-huh that's right see we he couldn't do without it he but you know since he can just do it right there at work for nothing
[speaker001:] oh that helps right well the the other thing some people are not aware of is they will use their a their credit card like their Visa or their MasterCard for cash
[speaker002:] yeah uh-huh
[speaker001:] and when they do that they begin paying interest right from that very day on
[speaker002:] you're right and that's kind of silly
[speaker001:] yeah right absolutely because they figure that that's correct the idea is to use their money
[speaker002:] yeah your defeating the purpose  yeah
[speaker001:] and uh during that whole month and then pay it at the end of the month
[speaker002:] yeah yeah I mean I get I get at least one or two a week people to you know sending me a credit card or calling me on the phone and I just say I don't want it because I
[speaker001:] um-hum right well I think that's the only thing you can do is just say no and mean no and not be tempted
[speaker002:] yeah yeah it's like I'd like to know where they determine that I'm such a good credit risk that they can go and say you get this much credit line you know you've already been preapproved
[speaker001:] well it and oh absolutely preapproved that's their favorite word
[speaker002:] yes everybody in the country is preapproved I think
[speaker001:] I think so you're right well it's interesting uh that uh people have the generally the same view of credit cards no matter where you go
[speaker002:] so yeah uh-huh yeah and then some people they get so wrapped up in them that they find you know one day they find wow I didn't realize I had this much you know I'd spent this much money and then they can't meet the minimum monthly payments on it
[speaker001:] that much spent right well and some people use one credit card to pay for another credit card they own and I mean that does nothing but exacerbate the entire problem
[speaker002:] uh-huh yeah it does because you're you know you you're you know you're just costing costing yourself more money because you if you can't make the monthly the minimum payment you're paying interest again so yeah
[speaker001:] that's right that's right well it's been enjoyable talking with you
[speaker002:] yes it's enjoyable talking with seeing that somebody feels the same way so well you you too good luck bye-bye
[speaker001:] right well take good care take care of your little ones uh-huh bye-bye

[speaker001:] okay Diane and a very good afternoon to you
[speaker002:] and afternoon good afternoon to you
[speaker001:] do you uh do most of your cooking at home or do you uh have a lot of people come in and have to prepare for them
[speaker002:] um no I do most of my cooking at home and um I could safely say that I have never cooked for a dinner party
[speaker001:] ah my goodness well what would you uh like to cook what's what what what is your favorite uh recipes uh that you would like to have for a dinner party now you're in Dallas is it
[speaker002:] um  uh right I'm in Dallas of course um dinner parties down here probably
[speaker001:] okay
[speaker002:] oh turn out to be more things like barbecues and
[speaker001:] I was I was thinking in terms of Mexican almost Tex-Mex Tex-Mex
[speaker002:] uh-huh yes yeah uh Tex-Mex Tex-Mex uh Mexican food um
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] probably a little bit different than what you serve up in Pennsylvania for a dinner party
[speaker001:] well that's a very interesting food though and when I go out to eat dinner sometimes that's the type of foods I like to find we have uh
[speaker002:] um-hum right
[speaker001:] I think Chico's or or these different restaurants in this area that uh have all those fine Mexican foods but um if I were to cook uh a dinner party
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] uh it may be standard to you but uh actually I never get too much fried chicken
[speaker002:] fried chicken
[speaker001:] but I would have fried chicken um with reasonably hot sauce on it almost a Mexican type thing
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] and I love twice cooked potatoes have you ever had twice cooked potatoes
[speaker002:] oh yes I have
[speaker001:] with with the cream made of the the sour cream and cream cheese and uh little oleo and I use uh oregano and maybe dill weed on mixed in with it
[speaker002:] uh-huh right
[speaker001:] and uh I like broccoli casseroles
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] which would include onion and cheese and again more dill weed and some medium hot peppers as you can see I'm inclined towards the Mexican type of a meal
[speaker002:] um-hum right
[speaker001:] and I would probably have some quiet and gentle fried onion rings mixed in there with it too
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] so uh how would you improve upon that
[speaker002:] improve upon that let's see I'd probably put a bunch of fresh vegetables in
[speaker001:] more fresh vegetables included to that
[speaker002:] and some yeah uh green beans and um carrots and things like that
[speaker001:] uh-huh how do you cook your green beans
[speaker002:] my green beans um I just get fresh green beans from the grocery store and snap off the ends and put them in water and steam them for about ten minutes
[speaker001:] um-hum  so you
[speaker002:] and I like to put a little Mrs Dash in with them
[speaker001:] all right that's what I was wondering about what what you use and and and herbs and so forth
[speaker002:] uh-huh right uh-huh um I like to just put a tablespoon or so of Mrs Dash in there and it makes them pretty tasty
[speaker001:] um-hum have you ever tried Chinese type green beans
[speaker002:] the Chinese type are they the real
[speaker001:] we use soy sauce
[speaker002:] no I haven't ever used that
[speaker001:] well you might uh be interested in that have it gives a very delicious taste you you have a soy sauce taste and you also have a little cream sauce in there because you you would use the water and um
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] golly what's this white powder that that uh that you mix with water and gives a thick sauce and I can't even think of the name of that right at the moment
[speaker002:] a white powder um gosh
[speaker001:] anyhow sorry about my mind but uh it does make a nice thick creamy sauce with the green beans and then you have the nice soy sauce taste under it
[speaker002:] that's okay um-hum
[speaker001:] with a few onions in there with it it does it it brings out such a so much different things in uh in the string beans
[speaker002:] um-hum yeah
[speaker001:] I like I like it to try them differently I hardly ever cook them the same way twice
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] just so I can enjoy them so you might uh think about that Chinese
[speaker002:] yeah I might try that
[speaker001:] Chinese cooking actually has a lot of very delicious tastes to them
[speaker002:] oh yes I love Chinese
[speaker001:] and uh north African cooking is good when you use something called couscous
[speaker002:] North African uh-huh
[speaker001:] and that's uh made from uh semolina I think they call it beans and that's the type of something that whatever you mix with it this couscous uh absorbs the taste of whatever else you put in it with it makes a very delicious dish you probably probably have to buy that from specialty stores
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] C O U S C O U S and that's a a north African dish they eat it one to two meals every day in North Africa
[speaker002:] hm
[speaker001:] and it is very very flexible you can do a lot of things with it makes a fantastic uh uh salad with cucumbers and olive oil and onions and oh boy real tasty
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] well I've enjoyed talking with you and I hope I've given you some ideas and uh
[speaker002:] well I've enjoyed talking with you
[speaker001:] that's one thing we can enjoy is good delicious food
[speaker002:] oh yes
[speaker001:] well thank you very much Miss Diane
[speaker002:] okay thank you bye-bye
[speaker001:] bye-bye

[speaker001:] So I own a, a P C A T at my home.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh, I could never justify owning a personal computer at home, uh, I mean, that's quite an expense to look for, uh, well, who is this, what do you use yours at home for?
[speaker001:] Well, that's actually a good question. My wife works out of the home, our home. She has an office and in fact she sits in the office and she uses it to compose and print out letters.
[speaker002:] Okay, well now.
[speaker001:] So that's a very regular use of it that she has.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] And in addition to that I tinker around with it. I'm a computer scientist.
[speaker002:] Oh.
[speaker001:] And so I write programs to do little things I'm actually working on a data base at home just to keep track of things nothing special. And also I'm interested in writing some programs that will kind of like remind me of things like remind me that Wednesdays is trash day and the like.
[speaker002:] Uh, huh, well, [throat clearing] excuse me, I, uh, uh, well I'm a technician, electronics tech. Years ago T I sent me to their, uh, computer school down in Austin.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] So, uh, I learned to repair one but you know I never really learned to operate one.
[speaker001:] Oh, that's a key thing. Well, actually that's a, there's really two issues to that that there's so many software packages available today.
[speaker002:] Yes.
[speaker001:] That just require no programming. So that yo-, in other words when someone built that software packet they had to use the programming but if they were careful, they could make the use of it totally without understanding how the computer works.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] But I think you you really hit the nail on the head. For the average person is exactly what he can use it for. And if your wife isn't working out of the home and sending letters or if you don't want to build a data base to keep track of the [pause] nuts and bolts in your garage, whatever there, your issue is then there really,
[speaker002:] Well, uh, space is a handicap with me, I live in a motor home.
[speaker001:] Oh, I see well.
[speaker002:] And I'm preparing for retirement.
[speaker001:] I see well, congratulations on that.
[speaker002:] And I'm not to far from it another year and a half.
[speaker001:] Yeah, well, actually one other thing I might ought to mention is that they are actually getting quite cheap.
[speaker002:] Yes, definitely, but just like the computers.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Uh, remember how they started out running three, four hundred dollars.
[speaker001:] Right. Oh, the calculators you mean.
[speaker002:] I mean ca-, calculators, I beg your pardon.
[speaker001:] Yeah, they sure do. Yeah I actually was thinking about upgrading mine very recently and kind of look at the whole spectrum. You can actually buy a whole [throat clearing] brand new computer with a not not a necessarily a slow one or inadequate one but a pretty good one for six hundred dollars.
[speaker002:] You're kidding.
[speaker001:] No.
[speaker002:] Including a printer?
[speaker001:] Well, actually I wasn't including a printer, but you you can buy a printer now for a hundred dollars so make it seven hundred.
[speaker002:] A hundred?
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] Wholly smoke, a respectable one?
[speaker001:] Yes, uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Well, see of not being particularly interested I don't keep track of prices on them, but I'm, I'm, that does amaze me.
[speaker001:] Yeah, the prices had plummeted, you can buy the computer the guts just the guts with the power supply,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] the box and the mother board of a type of computer called an eighty, eighty-eight, for about two hundred dollars.
[speaker002:] Huh.
[speaker001:] And then the keyboard is another fifty, the monitor with the card that drives is another hundred and then the disk drive is two fifty.
[speaker002:] Well, what, what is a a good brand a inexpensive.
[speaker001:] Well, that's that's the deal is you're not buying brands now, you're buying these knock offs, so there's, probably the way to do it if you really wanted to buy one is there's a magazine called COMPUTER SHOPPER.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] It's a big magazine, it's twelve inches acro-, narrow, the narrow side and
[speaker002:] Oh, wow.
[speaker001:] seventeen inches the tall side and it's probably an inch thick a thousand pages. But the book is, the magazine is full of these mail order, computer mail-order houses and they're all competing with each.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] So you just flip through there until you find a [smack] eighty, eighty-eight computer [breathing] that that's called, it's the original P C. So it's, we call the T I, I'm sorry an I B M P C compatible. And you'll find all these things and you'll find the monitors forty dollars and the card that drives the monitor that goes in the back of the board for twenty-five dollars which is amazing to me.
[speaker002:] Uh.
[speaker001:] And you mix and match and then you do it by mail-order. But there's no real brands it's probably a half a dozen companies around the world that are making those mother boards, the main computer, the circuit board.
[speaker002:] I see. How do you go about getting one of those a catalogs?
[speaker001:] They're available in, you know, the B Daltons, that that type of thing.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] You'll notice that in that it's, it's a, it's a, although it's a magazine it's large. And like I said it's about an inch thick [breathing].
[speaker002:] Uh-huh, well, getting back to the P C -s, I'll tell you, I ya, first of all I don't like a machine that's smarter than me.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] And secondly, I did learn this much about computers, they they are pretty stupid because they add one and one up and come up with ten.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] In binary.
[speaker001:] That's right [breathing]. There's great.
[speaker002:] Well, anyway that's one ever my favorite jokes.
[speaker001:] Oh, yeah [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] One and one equals ten.
[speaker001:] Yeah, that's great.
[speaker002:] Course it's it's kind of an inside joke, you know.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] You can only tell that to somebody who understands binary.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] I understand, that's great, that's a good joke.
[speaker002:] So what, do you, uh, uh, work with a computers a at T I?
[speaker001:] I did for years and then I was a scientist over in central research labs and just recently I've changed my job to actually do some of the marketing.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Uh, now I I type that one, but I don't use it anymore.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh, well I just recently started using one.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] In connection with my work.
[speaker001:] Yes.
[speaker002:] Uh, I keep track of an inventory here.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And of course now that is where a computer is very handy.
[speaker001:] Yes, I agree.
[speaker002:] And, well I, it's my responsibility to see that equipment is sent off to be calibrated.
[speaker001:] Oh, yeah.
[speaker002:] See I'm with the Q R A lab.
[speaker001:] Oh, I see that's fascinating.
[speaker002:] Qualification and evaluation so naturally our equipment has to be in top condition and is constantly calibrated,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] and they're dated. So I have to keep up with them, uh, and and it's very handy doing it on the computer.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] I just run a printout every week and and it puts me right up-to-date what I'm, what I have to do, what I have to ship, what I should be expecting to be returned.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] So a, it it is handy.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] And I must admit that up until I did start using one, uh, it was, I had very little interest in computers.
[speaker001:] Yes [NOISE].
[speaker002:] But they are amazing.
[speaker001:] Yeah, they certainly are. So let's see, see so I guess with respect to the question, yeah, I guess we've kind of covered it.
[speaker002:] I think we did.
[speaker001:] Great, nice little conversation with you Jack.
[speaker002:] Yeah, Mike you take care now.
[speaker001:] Good day.
[speaker002:] Good luck to you.
[speaker001:] Thank you. Same to you.

[speaker001:] I've uh
[speaker002:] oh uh
[speaker001:] are you there all right okay um
[speaker002:] yes sir I'm right here
[speaker001:] I'm in an area where um we can uh enjoy it year round so I've actually been uh uh been out within the past couple of weeks I'm mainly freshwater fisherman how about yourself
[speaker002:] well actually I've done both kinds uh I'm originally from the state of Virginia
[speaker001:] um-hum um-hum
[speaker002:] and uh lived uh near Virginia Beach where we could uh surf cast and uh catch a lot of things in the ocean there
[speaker001:] do you ever did you ever do the James River
[speaker002:] I don't believe I have fished the James River
[speaker001:] um
[speaker002:] there's a possibility but that was so long ago I moved here to to State College uh in nineteen fifty five and that has pretty well limited my fishing to fresh water
[speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh uh-huh
[speaker002:] and we have a lot of uh beautiful fresh water streams that come through this this area I'm in an area called Center County which is in the very center of the state of Pennsylvania
[speaker001:] I've I've been in that area and the trout fishing's supposed to be legendary
[speaker002:] the trout fishing is really uh beautiful as I say the the streams are oh eight ten fifteen feet wide and so forth and uh you you stand on the edge and you you cast out and you you work uh from your feet most of the time and then there are there are a few lakes of course close by
[speaker001:] uh-huh for brookies what do you like brookies or uh rainbows or
[speaker002:] well tell you the truth I'm I'm not uh not picky I wherever the area whatever the fish is the specialist in that area I uh I enjoy fishing for it and I try to I haven't fished in several years I'll have to admit
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] but when I do fish I do contact uh some of the local specialists
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] so that I can then find out the uh the type of lures that they use and where they fish and any unique uh techniques that would help you
[speaker001:] do you fly fish or are those streams too small
[speaker002:] uh no we fly we fly fish um-hum
[speaker001:] yeah I used to do that a little when I lived up in New York but
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] right now it's uh uh bass and striped bass is the only thing that uh I go for down in Dallas in uh Texas
[speaker002:] oh that's a pretty big fish
[speaker001:] uh yeah they're they've uh the striped bass have accommodated themselves to the big fresh water lakes and they're pretty exciting when they're when they're running
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] it's a salt water fish in fresh water uh environment it's
[speaker002:] well well our our streams streams here are replanted with fish uh about every year
[speaker001:] it's all put and take
[speaker002:] so that well they they they uh they have a pretty good idea of of uh what what the number of fish are in these various locations and
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] and they have have certain areas that they plant you know a hundred here and a hundred there and this is of course x number of weeks or months before fishing season opens so
[speaker001:] what's the season April to September October or something like that
[speaker002:] that sounds about right um-hum pretty close
[speaker001:] um-hum yeah what's a license cost
[speaker002:] yeah well as I say it's been several years but the licenses weren't that expensive I seems to sticks in my mind five to seven dollars is about all what I remember
[speaker001:] yeah uh-huh it's about the same as Texas yeah
[speaker002:] uh-huh and I have oh probably a a half a dozen different kinds of uh fishing poles and and fly rods and so forth and and I had been so busy in my work in these last few years that I haven't had time to fish but I'm going to be retiring at the end of December and I I hope uh the next fishing season that I can sort of get back in and uh enjoy that that that was a really enjoyable uh thing for me to do
[speaker001:] well I have all sons so I think I'm probably going to be fishing for a long time
[speaker002:] huh I just have one son and he he lives uh out of the state now or rather in the eastern corner of it so I don't think he has time to fish either
[speaker001:] I caught the disease from my father and I'm passing it on to my children it's really
[speaker002:] oh is that right
[speaker001:] they love it yeah
[speaker002:] oh my goodness well I I uh the disease I caught was simply because uh I was I was I was in the Norfolk Portsmouth area and people there there's there's so much water around that you you you're either boating or you're fishing
[speaker001:] right uh-huh right right
[speaker002:] and uh I fairly enjoyed it that time I have a small uh aluminum boat here that uh when I go on one of the large lakes that we have here that I enjoy fishing for for trout
[speaker001:] um-hum what what are the I I don't I don't know about the lakes in central Pennsylvania are there many
[speaker002:] from that well as I say I'm in Center Center County there's um there are two different size lakes about well five five to six miles from State College now these aren't huge lakes from your point of view but they are probably fifteen twenty acres maybe
[speaker001:] um-hum um-hum um-hum
[speaker002:] which which here is a lot of water where boats

[speaker001:] All right.
[speaker002:] What, what changes do you think have taken place in the last generation?
[speaker001:] I guess the biggest one is number of women in the work force.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Few are, uh, basically staying home and being homemakers, and raising kids exclusively.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh. Yeah, I, I, I grew up in, uh, sixties and early seventies and, uh, my mom didn't work at all when I was growing up. She didn't start working until I was, um, well into high school.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] So, I, I had the advantage of having a mom at home that nowadays kids, it's a luxury item for mothers to be home with their kids.
[speaker001:] Yeah, true. Well, mine taught kindergarten but she was always, uh, I guess her schedule was shorter so she was always, uh,
[speaker002:] Always home by the time you got home.
[speaker001:] home, yeah. Yeah, that, that statistic I guess has been growing every year it's like something around sixty, sixty-five percent or so now.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Uh, I'm not sure what the future holds for that whether,
[speaker002:] It seems like there's, it seems that there's a grass roots, um, effort or whatever going on I, I, um, clean houses part-time,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] and almost all the people that I clean for, believe it or not, are mothers that don't work [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Huh.
[speaker002:] Um,
[speaker001:] That's unusual [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] they are, th-, they're all, um, it's, and it's, I think it's kind of a new movement it's going back towards, you know, women have come into the work force in the last twenty, thirty years and now they're wanting to go back to the old days where, you know, women stayed home with the kids, you know, and try to give the kids quality time.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And I, I think that in the future you're, I think you're going to see a lot more, um, women choosing to not work after they have a baby.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] Um, I think with, uh, the, uh, the work force with the, the salaries that a lot of, a lot of the women that I work for have husbands who are, um, vice-presidents of companies and I think with, uh, um, this, it seems like it's more the upper-class people,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] um, I don't see it as much, the, like in my situation where I don't, I don't have children yet, but ideally I would like to be able to stay home with my kids. But realistically that's, I'm, I'm realizing that's probably not going to be possible, um, for middle-class people to be able to live just on one income.
[speaker001:] Yeah, that is tough. Yeah, we're looking at that now, my wife's about six months along.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh. I think it's going to be a luxury item to be able to stay home with your kids.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] You know, it's going to kind of [throat clearing] kind of go along with the B M W in the driveway and, or in the garage or whatever.
[speaker001:] True.
[speaker002:] Um, and the quarter of a million dollar home or whatever.
[speaker001:] Yeah. I'm surprised that the main people you work for are women that do stay home. I would think it would be women that were working full-time.
[speaker002:] Yeah, believe it or not though the, all the women that stay home are real busy when they are home.
[speaker001:] Huh.
[speaker002:] Um, they're real active in volunteer work.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Um, one of the women is real active with, uh, Muscular Dystrophy. And, uh, does a lot of, of work with them on a volunteer basis but it's still, it's almost like a job, she just doesn't get paid for it.
[speaker001:] Huh. Well, I guess that's good that they, they've got something to keep them active.
[speaker002:] Yeah. When, when your wife has her baby, is she going to stay home or is she going to,
[speaker001:] Yeah, we're,
[speaker002:] go back to work?
[speaker001:] we're going to try and have her stay home, for as long as possible. [Very faint] What do you think?
[speaker002:] That, that, that, I would, I would like to be able to do that.
[speaker001:] Yeah, we think it's, uh, that important and I, I kind of hope that the trend goes back in that direction. I'm a, a counselor and a therapist,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and I work with adolescents, and I see some of the problems the kids have when they don't have a real good family structure.
[speaker002:] Yeah, I, I see a difference in the generation of, even the generation before me,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] uh, were, you know, mom was like, um, Mrs Cleaver, uh, you know, June Cleaver or whatever, where the, the attitudes were a lot different. Um, as far as, I think the kids back then seemed to be a lot more, um, ther-, there wasn't a lot of the drugs and alcohol and,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] um, a lot of the, the things that are going on in today's society, I think morally, um, it seems like there was, peo-, people were a lot better back then as far as hig-, higher standards.
[speaker001:] True. Well, the husbands' roles are almost nonexistent in family anymore in terms of being the father figure and with women working so much they're kind of pulled out of it too.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] So, kids are raised around their friends and by the media.
[speaker002:] Yeah, that's true.
[speaker001:] And that's, you know, that's contributed,
[speaker002:] And I think, I think you're going to see a lot more of that in the future.
[speaker001:] Yeah, maybe that's contributed to a lot of the problems that we see all the time, so. If there was some way for, for women to, to stay home even if they could work, you know, there are a lot of jobs that are coming about, like in computers at home,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and those types of things, that would at least in some ways, um, bridge the gap [pause].
[speaker002:] Yeah, I, I think that, um, in the future, um, the, the family unit as it, as it once was known, is, is going to be nonexistent [pause]. What, how do you, what do you think?
[speaker001:] About?
[speaker002:] That as far as do-, do you think there's going to be still a family unit or, or do you think that, um, the trend is going more towards single parenting?
[speaker001:] The [LAUGHTER] balance I don't, the, the divorce rate keeps hovering around fifty percent or so and it got higher than that for a while. Um, that's hard to say. Families are such a strange configuration anymore. Um, I, I see a lot of families where, you know, in the, in the back, I grew up about the same time you did,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and back in those times we pretty much were taught how to be responsible.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Uh, nowadays it's not the case, kids don't, kids are bombarded with all kinds of junk and one of the reasons, I guess, is because there's so much more income in the family with both parents working. They get bombarded with junk and they don't have to do anything around the house. They never learned to be responsible when,
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] the bigger trend called the boomerang kids where they move out for a while and they come back, and you got twenty and thirty year olds who are living at home with mom and dad [LAUGHTER] so,
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] you know, you create a bigger, bigger family, generation after generation but not really on purpose.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] So. It's not, not a real functional situation anyway. So, you know, I don't know it's, I don't know that that trend's going to change the single parent type families and the families, as long as we've got so many other crazy things going on in society.
[speaker002:] Yeah, I, I think that eventually the, the family unit's just not going to even exist anymore. like you said the divorce rate is getting so high that I think there's going to be more single parent families than there are, um, you know, two parent families.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] That's pretty sad.
[speaker001:] Yeah, it is, I guess unless, unless there's a, a major swing in the change of what's important to people, you know, probably keep going downhill. And I, I don't know we, we feel like that, that we can make it on one income it, it may be tough but we may have to give up on some, some things.
[speaker002:] I, I think in the long run though your child will benefit from that.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] And it will, it will make the, the strain worthwhile.
[speaker001:] Yeah, I think so too.
[speaker002:] Well, I, I need to go ahead and, and wrap it up.
[speaker001:] Okay.
[speaker002:] Um, it was really nice talking to you.
[speaker001:] Well, I've enjoyed it, Stephanie.
[speaker002:] And, uh, thanks a lot.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Okay, bye-bye.
[speaker001:] Bye-bye.

[speaker001:] before the one will take um okay let's see I guess um I can start I'm actually we're actually trying to find one now because our family's growing yeah
[speaker002:] are you really
[speaker001:] um so I'm looking at um something larger than what we have we've got like an eighty four Charger that's about gone and a uh an eighty nine Horizon
[speaker002:] uh-huh which are both kind of small
[speaker001:] so I'm looking for something a little bigger yeah um so we were thinking minivan for a while and uh we're looking at uh some just some four door five passenger sedans as well
[speaker002:] uh-huh are you looking for an American car or you you open to buying foreign cars
[speaker001:] um I don't really have a preference either way I guess it you know it's
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] you know I guess the American cars had a bad reputation but I haven't had any real substantial problems with the ones I've had
[speaker002:] uh-huh right personally I have a Japanese car right now and I really like it a lot uh I think the Japanese really build good cars and I know that kind of rubs against the grain right now in the whole uh
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] you know buy American keep American auto workers working right now but I feel that the Japanese have really produced a much higher quality product than our uh car manufacturers have for a while if I were to buy another car I would be uh
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] I would be partial to buying another Japanese car but I would also look at American cars but when I bought the car that I bought now I did that also and I just felt that the Japanese car was a much better product so if I were
[speaker001:] yeah I mean even even if it's just little details it seems like uh they you know like uh there's a door seal that doesn't quite seal and you have to take it back every once in a while and and it's clearly just a a design problem there
[speaker002:] right right it is um I'm kind of right now the next car I buy is gonna be sort of a sports car I would really like to have a sports car um I don't really I don't have a family so I don't need a a minivan or such to uh haul people around in
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] so I'm looking for more a a two passenger car that uh
[speaker001:] oh like a Miata or something like that
[speaker002:] well I like the Miata but I don't like it enough to buy it I would buy something actually the the car that I really like right now is an Eagle Talon which is an American car but uh
[speaker001:] um
[speaker002:] something along that lines uh because I have a an economy car right now which is okay but uh I think I I'd like to move on to something a little better
[speaker001:] interesting yeah that's interesting yeah I guess probably the factors we'd use to compare are a little different because I look for you know size and safety and then mileage probably
[speaker002:] right right that's when I bought the car that I bought I was looking for mileage and I was looking for uh dependability and something that was going to last a long time I was get that I would get a
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] for the money that I was going to spend that I would get a return that was that was worth that money
[speaker001:] yeah yeah I can I think in terms of computer terminology I look at you know price performance and things like that
[speaker002:] so right exactly
[speaker001:] and then a little bit at life expectancy I guess but it you know depends on what you
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] what you pay initially but you know I've got a hundred and twenty five thousand miles on the Charger actually it was my wife's car that she brought into the marriage
[speaker002:] um that's right uh-huh
[speaker001:] and she got just a commute between Cincinnati and Dayton
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] it's you know we we had to replace the friction plate and the transmission at thirty thousand miles but
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] um the other ninety four thousand have been just fine with it so
[speaker002:] okay
[speaker001:] but uh
[speaker002:] uh I've had uh I've had one or two American cars I think and and they were okay I had a Pontiac once and and I never had a problem with it but uh my mother had a Dodge at one point and I I had driven it a few times and I really did not feel that it that I would buy a Dodge just just from well actually I had a uh
[speaker001:] um
[speaker002:] a Dodge Omni at one point and that was I think what really prejudiced me against American cars was because I did not feel that it was a very quality uh
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] car
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] so I guess you'd have to say if I was looking I would definitely be looking for a foreign car
[speaker001:] that's interesting but yeah it it's hard to beat some of the uh like I guess we're in particular we're looking at a like a ninety one Corsica that's uh buy back at a they say GM sponsored auction but I think they're obliged to have these things because Hertz and Avis and those folks have it in their contract that they can sell it back to GM
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] after you know it's after they've used it for six months and put you know twelve or fifteen thousand miles on it and you can get those for like eight thousand bucks if you
[speaker002:] right  which is a good deal
[speaker001:] yeah because uh I guess um I mean well ninety two's granted but the new ones you know fourteen to sixteen is what they go for
[speaker002:] um-hum right
[speaker001:] on the lot so all the depreciation has been taken off and guess the dealer comes out okay you know I don't know what kind of I don't know what GM corporate kind of hit the I don't know what kind of hit they take on it but sounds like everybody's had their chance to make their money off of it
[speaker002:] yeah that yeah I'm sure they did
[speaker001:] so but uh I don't know we keep looking at that minivan it's just you know we can get a like a Caravan for right twelve five but that's a little more than we want to spend right now
[speaker002:] uh-huh right
[speaker001:] but uh uh it's interesting but uh I don't know if if uh it it seems to be

[speaker001:] well tell me about your home
[speaker002:] okay uh right now we're living in uh well it's me uh my wife and uh two young boys and uh right now we're in a uh I guess it's either a zero lot line or a garden home
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] which you might call it so we don't have a a big yard uh but uh when my wife and I first moved in it was just the two of us so it was enough
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] uh and it's uh I guess what they call a story and a half because it's not a full two story
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] where you know everything on top is on bottom so it's got real high ceilings on half the house and the other half is just standard sized ceilings
[speaker001:] hm
[speaker002:] and uh it's it's about a five year old house now
[speaker001:] it sounds nice
[speaker002:] it's uh pretty nice unfortunately unfortunately the builder who built it went out of business already
[speaker001:] oh yeah
[speaker002:] yeah it was a Landmark is the one who built it
[speaker001:] yeah well you know these guys that gambled high lost big you know
[speaker002:] yeah that's true
[speaker001:] and uh
[speaker002:] exactly what happened to them
[speaker001:] I'm insulating myself from that problem I'm building my own house
[speaker002:] oh that's nice
[speaker001:] and as I look out the window of my trailer I can envision all the insulation that's going up today
[speaker002:] oh really are you doing it yourself
[speaker001:] yeah yeah I I used to be a builder
[speaker002:] wow oh that's nice
[speaker001:] and I retired about five years ago
[speaker002:] oh I see
[speaker001:] and started college
[speaker002:] oh
[speaker001:] and now I'm uh a college educated builder
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] there's still no work you know so uh you know I decided this summer that uh you know we had enough credit on the credit cards to buy the materials so I did
[speaker002:] that's great
[speaker001:] and uh see the the state has a law that says you cannot borrow the money to build your own home
[speaker002:] really is that so I didn't know that
[speaker001:] you can borrow the money to pay somebody else to build your house but you can't borrow the money to build your own
[speaker002:] that sounds kind of dumb
[speaker001:] well it's to protect the the banks from guys that say yeah I want to build my own house and go out a build a spec home and then it doesn't sell and then the bank's holding the bag
[speaker002:] hm yeah yeah
[speaker001:] well
[speaker002:] hm
[speaker001:] as as you know anything that involves the government is works half as well as it's supposed to costs three times as much right hence the savings and loan problem we have today
[speaker002:] that's right yeah that's true
[speaker001:] but uh you know my home is uh fairly simple it's designed to be added on to
[speaker002:] um-hum that's good
[speaker001:] yeah well I figure it's just me and my wife but you know I like to do stuff with my hands and what not so I'm gonna have a shop
[speaker002:] yeah yeah how big a lot do you got it on
[speaker001:] ten acres
[speaker002:] wow that's nice that's real nice
[speaker001:] well yes it's really nice too because I can't see my nearest neighbor he's on the other side of a hill
[speaker002:] oh
[speaker001:] and my second nearest neighbor is a dot on the horizon
[speaker002:] seriously God that's pretty good
[speaker001:] and well in summer in the winter time I can see see another guy but you know he's
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] you know I can just make out his place you know
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] I got a thirty mile view to the east and about ten mile to the north
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] and uh
[speaker002:] oh that's pretty good uh
[speaker001:] yeah well I took a lot of time in choosing this site
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] because the the house has no heating or air conditioning
[speaker002:] oh you you you don't plan on putting any any of that in
[speaker001:] well it's got a a very small furnace and a uh I'm use a wood burning stove as well but
[speaker002:] uh-huh yeah
[speaker001:] in the house itself I've been working inside you know these low these many months and I have not had to use the heat
[speaker002:] um-hum wow
[speaker001:] because it's all geothermal
[speaker002:] yeah that's pretty good
[speaker001:] and with all the see I've got on the south side is all glass well as much as I could get in it you know
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] and uh the east side is glass I've got uh one two three four five six windows in the east side on forty eight feet so it's almost all glass
[speaker002:] wow
[speaker001:] and uh
[speaker002:] my wife would love that
[speaker001:] oh yeah I mean you know
[speaker002:] she loves lots of windows
[speaker001:] there's no place in the house where you can stand and not see four windows
[speaker002:] that's great
[speaker001:] so uh
[speaker002:] is it a single story
[speaker001:] well not really it's uh it's on the side of a hill
[speaker002:] oh I see
[speaker001:] so the first you know the the the what I call residential level at the side that's in the hill is about four feet deep
[speaker002:] um-hum um I see
[speaker001:] and the side that's on the uh the other side is about six feet high
[speaker002:] oh
[speaker001:] so I got a pretty good grade there and then when I put the verandas which which will be twelve feet out all all the way around on the north south and east sides that will define the shop
[speaker002:] yeah um-hum yeah that's kind of like uh like a Victorian style
[speaker001:] so exactly yeah
[speaker002:] yeah I I've always liked that the you know I we don't have much yard but I built a small deck in the back but you know I I see th ese magazines where you know do your self your own decks
[speaker001:] um-hum um-hum
[speaker002:] I I kind of wish I had them the size property and and uh one with a grade on it so I can build a real nice deck when
[speaker001:] yeah

[speaker001:] I guess we're ready to talk.
[speaker002:] How you doing, Howard? This is a, a subject that I'm not real well versed on, but.
[speaker001:] Well, let's talk about air pollution.
[speaker002:] Okay.
[speaker001:] What do you think causes air pollution in Dallas? Or where are you from?
[speaker002:] No.
[speaker001:] Maybe you're not in Dallas.
[speaker002:] Okay, I'm from the, uh, I'm from Dallas. I'm in Richardson.
[speaker001:] Okay. Uh,
[speaker002:] What do you think as far as air pollution in the Dallas area?
[speaker001:] Well, I have some small experience in this area. The brown haze that you see if you look down Central towards downtown
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] a lot of that is, uh, tied up with the oxides or nitrogen although some of the kind of bluish gray stuff we see sometimes is tied up with particulates. But, uh, the, one of the major problems that Dallas has is oxides and nitrogen. That's because of all the equipment that's being operated. But at the same time, uh, because we don't have, we don't burn a lot of coal and solid materials we,
[speaker002:] [Throat clearing].
[speaker001:] don't get a lot of particulates. Now particulates would come from trash burning or incineration or something like that here in Dallas.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] Uh, power plants since,
[speaker002:] [Throat clearing].
[speaker001:] many of our local power plants, uh, are natural gas most of the time, uh, the things that come off of those plants are carbon dioxide, and N O X. There's no particulates in natural gas, of course. And we pick up a little bit of sulphur off some of these products. We're burning fuel oil and a few other things, but gasoline, of course, now the lead's out, at least theoretically, uh, I guess you could say we're picking up some sulphur because a lot of the fuels does have sulphur. That's why we get that rotten egg smell sometime off the catalytic converter
[speaker002:] Oh, really?
[speaker001:] the sulphur, yes. And that's, uh, course hydrogen sulfide, which is when you burn gasoline, you also produce some water vapor
[speaker002:] Sure.
[speaker001:] and that goes back in with your sulphur and under the right condition you get H two S. But, anyway, uh,
[speaker002:] Well, you are, you are well versed on the subject, I tell you.
[speaker001:] Well, I don't know.
[speaker002:] This is not one of my better ones. I guess, [throat clearing] I guess I notice it the most just, uh, in driving around Dallas with all the, [inhaling] the highway equipment that's working on the
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] on, six thirty-five and seventy-five, just the cars in general. That's where I see most of it.
[speaker001:] Ro-, uh, Ron a lot of this is caused by the fact that cars sitting in traffic tend to run rich because the way the pollution is.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] And when they run rich they, they spit out a lot of hydrocarbons, and that's another part of the problem. The gas is not being burned completely. But, uh, hopefully, if we ever get our road system fixed up, this will get a lot better.
[speaker002:] Oh, I don't know, I've lived here since seventy-four, Howard, and, I d-, I think, I think they been working on the highways around here since I've been here,
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] and I think, I think they'll be working on them long after my wife and I are gone.
[speaker001:] Well, I guess, I, not trying to top you, but I grew up in Dallas county and I can remember when they built the north part of North Central which was built after the south part of
[speaker002:] Right [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Central and, uh, I can remember coming over the hill down there long about, uh, I don't know, little bit north of mark-, Mockingbird on up in, over those hills and I said I wonder if they'll ever need this road.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Course, it was designed for most of us to go about forty-five miles an hour because the short on ramps and are, off ramps, but, gosh, seems like, uh, those ramps might kill us yet. I, hopefully the new ones will be a lot better.
[speaker002:] I understand. I sure hope so, I tell you. You know, you get out on the, uh, interstate highways versus, I travel quite a bit and traveling from, like, Dallas to Austin to San Antonio it's the same thing as far as the pollution created by the automobiles in the, in the stalled traffic and the busy highways, you, you, you're at your best and, I guess when you're out on the interstate, [inhaling] heading north or south and you're just cruising right along and there's no build up of cars and,
[speaker001:] Yeah, Ron, have you noticed when you're driving south on thirty-five, I guess towards Waxahachie, Hillsborough on down to Austin,
[speaker002:] [Noise].
[speaker001:] you hit a point down there about, I think where they call Bear Creek exit
[speaker002:] Yes.
[speaker001:] on just this side of the county line [static]. Right along in there somewhere, suddenly the air feels cleaner. Have you noticed that?
[speaker002:] I tell you what, I, I don't think I really have, but I'm going that way Tuesday and I'm going to make it a point to.
[speaker001:] Well, sometimes it depends on which way the winds blowing
[speaker002:] Sure.
[speaker001:] but, uh, I also travel a little bit and, uh, I don't know, it just seems like there's a certain point down there where you can breathe easier. It may be all in my mind.
[speaker002:] Oh, I know.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] I know going to, uh, uh, I detest going to Houston because it's such a,

[speaker001:] So you like to fish, huh?
[speaker002:] Yeah, I like to, I don't have a boat, but I like to fish and there's a lot of lakes around here. Uh, are there many lakes up there?
[speaker001:] Yeah, actually there are quite a bit of lakes around me. We actu-, uh, we have the, those little, the, the, the Great Lakes, you know, Grea-, uh, [breathing] Lake Ontario is right near here.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Plus, we're in what's called the Finger Lake Region of New York where there're lots of small lakes everywhere and these are, uh, real good, uh, for, like, you know, bass fishing and so forth.
[speaker002:] They have mostly small mouth in them or,
[speaker001:] No, we have a, qui-, actually quite a lot of variety. There's, uh, there's, we have large mouth, small mouth, uh, sort of musky, pike, stuff like that.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] You know, all sorts of fun stuff like that. Uh, we have a pretty large bass masters tournament actually takes place right on Lake Ontario every year.
[speaker002:] Oh, yeah, that's right, uh-huh.
[speaker001:] So it's, it's, that's, a lot of fun.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] How about you? Do you like, what do you like to go for?
[speaker002:] Oh, it's, it's, uh, I fish for bass, but I hardly ever catch one, but, uh, uh, they have a tail race over in Lake Lavon
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] and, uh, you know, they wash, when they open up the dam and let out water, they wash down the fish and, uh, you catch that white bass and crappie out of there.
[speaker001:] Um.
[speaker002:] Every once in a while there'll be striped bass.
[speaker001:] We have, uh, some friends who live on the lake
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and, it, the lake it just seems, is, is completely filled with bass to the point where, you know, normally you go, y-, y-, go fishing for bass, you get a lot of sunfish, or, or cat or whatever, and some other strange stuff. *listen But in this particular lake, we went out with some friends, once and we just, every time you tossed the line in, you pull up a five, six, seven inch minimum bass and usually you pull up, you know, [breathing] thirteen to fourteen inch bass.
[speaker002:] Wow.
[speaker001:] Yeah, it's a real, it's a real enjoyable experience to go fishing there because we just, we pull up, you know, bass after bass and, *slash error
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] During perch season as well, you pull up a lot of, uh, *slash error probably during, during perch season the perch will run in very large schools, so what they'll do is j-, you'll, you'll be sort of boating around, these people own a little row boat, and they'll be boating around and they'll hit a, they'll hit a school of perches in the middle
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and when they do, you can just drop the lines in and just pull them in one at, they, they just drop it in. They can't pull it in fast enough.
[speaker002:] What do you, what do you catch perch on?
[speaker001:] Uh, I, they actually, they, according to them, you can catch, when the perch are running, you can catch them on just about anything.
[speaker002:] Huh.
[speaker001:] They tend to use, I guess worms or some kind of lures sometimes, but, you know, I've, she told me that they will sometimes use corn or anything, you know.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] They'll, corn or salami or bread or anything, they'll, they'll, they'll hit because they're just sort of surrounded, these large schools.
[speaker002:] Yeah, it's, sometimes I use corn, but, uh, uh, some fish steal it off the hook sometimes.
[speaker001:] Yeah, it's a big problem.
[speaker002:] Yeah, uh, the other day I was fishing with bread, uh, there's a college across the street
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] and they, it's, it's full of carp and, uh, I caught a carp on a, about, what size is that, uh, I think it was a number two treble hook,
[speaker001:] Um.
[speaker002:] and it's huge, its, its mouth was full of hooks.
[speaker001:] Wow.
[speaker002:] So he was in a bad way. But, uh, it's, he was fast. He,
[speaker001:] A big one?
[speaker002:] Yeah. Well, it's, uh, it was sixteen inches long.
[speaker001:] Wow, that's, that's, that's a nice size carp.
[speaker002:] Yeah, I think it was about a pound and a half, you know, but all they're good for is the fight. Boy they d-, they really don't want to come out of the water they,
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] they zip through the water, you know, you're, how your line goes, you know
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] and I thought, you know, that, uh, I wasn't going to be able to get it in, because, uh, the one I hooked just about ten minutes before, when I tried to raise it out of the water, it fell off, so it wasn't hooked very well. But, you know, I got it that far, I figured that, uh,
[speaker001:] That, that, that counts.
[speaker002:] Yeah, that's what I said. That's what I told the guy. The guy was standing there and he laughed when it fell off and I said, that's a quick release, right there.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Do you, do you, do you actually like the taste of f-, do you, like, eat the fish that you catch or are you more of a sport fisherman?
[speaker002:] Uh, catfish, yeah. But, uh, I haven't eaten anything else, you know. Uh, there's some, uh, my dad has a farm and there's, he has two ponds up there and my uncle has a, a pond upstream and there's a lot of crappie in there now. But, uh, I think he's the only one that's, that's caught enough crappie or, a big enough crappie to eat. But the catfish, there's, you know, there's hundreds of them from like two to six pounds and, that, yeah.
[speaker001:] Right, so you can just, oh, because I don't actually like fish. It's sort of, so when I fish, it's more for sport than anything else.
[speaker002:] Yeah, and if, you know, when you, when you have to look in their eyes and, you know, hit them in the head or whatever, that's what you do with a catfish
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] you know, because you have to sever their spinal cord.
[speaker001:] And, and, and, and, and be careful you don't get stung.
[speaker002:] Yeah, yeah.
[speaker001:] Yeah, I know it. Have you ever tried, uh, deep sea fishing?
[speaker002:] Uh, not yet. My brother went off the coast of Maine, uh, when the, I don't know, what they, mackerel
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] that school up there? *listenis there overlap? It's he, he said that it was just like that. They were throwing like, uh, uh, hell benders or, uh, uh, some other kind of treble hook lure and, and, uh, each time they bring them in they'd have at least one, sometimes they've had two on, you know, one on every hook.
[speaker001:] Yeah, we, I was out in Florida with a friend a while ago and we would go and just, uh, drop two, you know, a, a two or three rig, two or three hooked rig as well down off a boat. We just dropped it down there and, the captain had, you know, some kind of sonar in the boat
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] so he'd maneuver us into a school of fish and you just drop it in and [breathing] and it just, you, you get one or two at a shot, you know and,
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] It's a good deal, too. It was, it was a, like twenty dollars for six hours of fishing on some big charter boat.
[speaker002:] Wow.
[speaker001:] You know, and, and, and they'll clean your fish on a tip basis for you if you want.
[speaker002:] Yeah, down here it's like two hundred dollars a day.
[speaker001:] Well, this is, yeah, this, this, this was for a, you know, large, there were
[speaker002:] A group party.
[speaker001:] maybe thirty of us on the boat. We, we weren't all related, just, you know, thirty people off the shop in the boat there.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] If you want to go on a boat alone, it's like two hundred dollars a day.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] But this is great, because it was, I think it was nineteen dollars for five hours and twenty dollars for six hours or something.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] You know, so you'd get to go out there for, five-, for, for six hours and get a nice suntan and bring along some lunch and, [breathing] and fish all day. It's really nice [pause]. It's real enjoyable.
[speaker002:] Yeah. Well, I, I don't know if it's been five minutes yet or not.
[speaker001:] I think we're probably close, though.
[speaker002:] Yeah. It's nice talking to you.
[speaker001:] Nice talking to you, too. Good luck with fishing this season.
[speaker002:] Good luck.
[speaker001:] Bye-bye.
[speaker002:] Bye-bye.

[speaker001:] okay um
[speaker002:] where do you live
[speaker001:] in Plano
[speaker002:] in Plano
[speaker001:] yes where do you live
[speaker002:] in Dallas
[speaker001:] oh okay
[speaker002:] uh the air pollution isn't too bad in our area so we're very fortunate but
[speaker001:] huh
[speaker002:] I know in some areas it's really it it really is bad
[speaker001:] um I was trying to think uh something we were watching the other day and they were doing an overview of Los Angeles uh from an area that was up higher and you literally could see the band of smog that uh I've never been out there but
[speaker002:] I haven't either
[speaker001:] it was it was quite evident that
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] it was a real brown area and
[speaker002:] well I think it would be terrible to live in an area like that and unfortunately I think there are a lot of areas that are that that bad particularly in the areas where there are industries uh
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] where they are burning a lot of coal and oil up more up north I guess uh I think it's a bigger problem with the car pollution antipollution devices I think the
[speaker001:] yes yeah
[speaker002:] air isn't as bad as it once was from the cars because we certainly have plenty of cars in our area
[speaker001:] yes well I know uh that's been the concern in Europe they hadn't uh we have friends in Germany and uh have family that live near the Black Forest area and large areas of the forest are being hurt from the cars because when we switched uh switched to the unleaded gas and and had the emission control advice uh devices required on the cars uh that's something that Europe didn't do right away and now they're doing that and I guess it started in the last few years because they have found that in that particular part of the country that's the only pollution that's been there it's not an area that is industry but they were losing a lot of uh trees and a lot of
[speaker002:] from acid rain
[speaker001:] um I guess from from something that the car was um was giving
[speaker002:] I think it gives off uh in the emissions it gives off gases which combine up in the atmosphere uh and form a a weak acid
[speaker001:] yes and
[speaker002:] it just makes the rain fall on the acid side and after a period of time I think that accumulates in uh trees because they take it up through their roots as well as it landing on the leaves on surfaces like you've seen what it's done to buildings even where it's really bad
[speaker001:] yes yeah
[speaker002:] what's interesting several years ago I took a course uh on uh well it was actually it was put on by the power companies and about the various sources of energy and how much pollution there was and there wasn't from various kinds of of energy and uh at that point in time one person that was a speaker brought up the topic of acid rain and it was kind of pooh-poohed you know oh you're making a mountain out of a molehill kind of thing and it's turned out that that's been very true what he was forecasting about the accumulation of of the pollutants in the air and the acid rain and what it would do to foliage so it's kind of interesting the change in perspective from when I took that course now a lot of people are really afraid of nuclear uh I'm not afraid of nuclear having had that course because of how the nuclear that uh they use is not bomb quality and we're so strict with all our controls in the United States the chances of of an accident are slight and it doesn't pollute the air at all it's safer to be around a nuclear plant then it is to be around a coal plant many more deaths have occurred in and dealing with coal plants then ever around nuclear plants it's kind of funny because people are just petrified at least some are at the thought of nuclear
[speaker001:] yes
[speaker002:] so I don't know in Europe there's a lot of dependency on nuclear power and they recycle the fuel and then instead of of some people are really afraid to recycle the fuel because they're afraid it could become uh bomb quality but that's the only sensible thing to do is recycle and reuse the fuel and not store it down in the ground as far as I'm concerned where it could eventually perhaps there's some problem uh pollute the groundwater so I don't know what the answer is the best answer of course would be solar or uh fusion or something clean well we've got a problem on the line don't we
[speaker001:] yes yeah I I get that sometimes um my line gets some static I don't know why
[speaker002:] uh-huh but uh solar of course would be the clean cleanest
[speaker001:] well and I would think in our um we did have a solar water heater when we lived in Houston and uh oddly enough I thought our part of the country was ideal
[speaker002:] I can't hear you at all for all this static
[speaker001:] oh I don't know what to usually it's the other phone I have trouble with it must just be on the line can you hear me
[speaker002:] now I can again
[speaker001:] okay I don't know what uh I I don't know what the problem is but uh when we lived in Houston we had a solar water heater and we had thought this part of the country would be ideal for solar homes and solar energy and we have enough clouds that uh
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] there are other areas that would be better suited that surprised me because I think we have a tremendous amount of um sunny days and and it yes it can be used and it can help but uh that was a problem that they were still
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] working on but
[speaker002:] oh yeah it it's still got a long way to go
[speaker001:] what
[speaker002:] it's just you know a possible solution in the future I think maybe to help in some ways it may not in all ways maybe they'll come up with fusion
[speaker001:] yes
[speaker002:] you know control be able to control it I don't know how long that'll take but  one of these days because that's perfectly clean
[speaker001:] yes
[speaker002:] it's just we can't control it right now it takes more energy to cause fusion to occur then you get out so it isn't not at all and you can't control it unless you gotten a huge electromagnetic field so that's not going to work at least not now but uh who knows what the future will hold uh as far as energy goes I I think with solving some of the energy future energy problems we'll probably solve some of the pollution problems as well
[speaker001:] uh I hope so
[speaker002:] I do to I like to be optimistic I don't like to be pessimistic about these things
[speaker001:] well I do think um I mean you've already mentioned several things I think uh just the change in attitude and the fact that more people are aware there's a problem and more people are interested in uh
[speaker002:] we have one earth to live on and we got to take care of it
[speaker001:] yes yes well and and for the future generations too uh
[speaker002:] uh-huh I've noticed students are are much more you know young young people are much more receptive to ideas about the environment and protecting the earth
[speaker001:] yes
[speaker002:] and so if we can raise it uh you know generations with those concerns we'll solve a lot of our problems I'm afraid I know I was part of the me generation where they didn't so many of them didn't people didn't care you know it's whatever you know recycle well if it's a problem forget that uh not throw the trash out the car window and leave it in the car and then throw it away
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] how horrible you know now I've always done those kinds of things because I just didn't like messes uh and create
[speaker001:] yeah

[speaker001:] So, how do you feel about capital punishment?
[speaker002:] Well, I, I'm not really certain how I, uh, I'm not certain that, that it does a lot of good. I mean, that it ends up, ends up effectively, uh, uh, uh, avoiding a lot of the crimes that have capital punishment
[speaker001:] Right, you don't think,
[speaker002:] penalties. Yet, on the other hand, uh, I don't know, I mean, there is things that [LAUGHTER] seems like it's, it's, it's the right thing to do. Now, you know, I mean somebody, a s-, s-, serial killer or somebody goes in and machine guns, you know, fifty, fifty children in a school yard, you kind of, I don't know. What about yourself?
[speaker001:] I, uh, I have the same dilemma, I think. Uh, it's, you know, it seems right sometimes and then other times, you don't know.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Uh,
[speaker002:] I mean, people, like, I, it's been, I mean, like the Arab societies and stuff end up, uh, having [throat clearing] e-, effective, effective punishments and, and they're extremely severe. Uh, I, you know, I think to a certain degree, the reason that it, it doesn't serve as a deterrent, uh, may be because y-, you never know if it's going to be a-, applied. Right, un-, unlike, uh, like in, in Arab societies. If you get, get caught stealing, they chop off your hand and
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] and you walk around the rest of your life with one hand and everybody knows exactly what, what for.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] Uh, and, you know, and here, with our court system and, and ways of sort of screwing it around and stuff you can, you can kind of always count on the fact, or, or there is a good chance you're going to get off.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh. And also, it doesn't seem like it does that many harm, I mean, sure, their life is taken, but they'd spend the rest of their life in jail anyway, so
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] I think sometimes they'd prefer just to get it over with so it's more of the easy way out than
[speaker002:] Yeah, some people,
[speaker001:] making them pay for the con-, for the
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] you know, what they've done.
[speaker002:] Except that, I mean, the, the average cost [throat clearing] to si-, [lipsmack] to society of having somebody in jail for all their life is, is extremely high. I mean, something, I, I was amazed at. Uh, uh, per year, it's something like twenty thousand dollars per inmate per year.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] To keep people in jail. Uh, you know, and it's sort of a [LAUGHTER], sort of a crass perspective [LAUGHTER]
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] on the usage of capital punishment, but on the other hand, uh, uh, you know, I don't, I don't know if it's that is, that is that serious that they're really never going to be out of jail, uh...
[speaker001:] Right, but then again, also, you can't bring back lives that have been taken anyway, so
[speaker002:] Uh-huh [faint].
[speaker001:] uh, it's, it doesn't, it seems by, that by, I don't know, doesn't ever really, p-, uh...
[speaker002:] Oh, I know, I mean, you can't, it doesn't,
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] Taking, taking one more life doesn't, doesn't, doesn't re-, get things back the way they were, right.
[speaker001:] Right. It doesn't bring back every,
[speaker002:] Yeah, I don't know, I, I don't, I really don't know, uh,
[speaker001:] What state are you in?
[speaker002:] I'm in Texas.
[speaker001:] Oh, really?
[speaker002:] W-, w-,
[speaker001:] In Dallas?
[speaker002:] No, I'm in Austin.
[speaker001:] Oh, really?
[speaker002:] Where, where are you calling from?
[speaker001:] Uh, right now I'm in Utah, but I'm from Plano, Texas.
[speaker002:] Oh, I see, uh-huh.
[speaker001:] So, uh, uh, what are the laws like in Texas?
[speaker002:] It's, Texas is, has, is one of the, one of the s-, well, I guess there is more and more states that are, that are going back to capital punishment. Uh, Texas has had it for a while. It's one of the quickest, it, it, once it was, it was reallowed, I think it was outlawed for a while, but, uh, by the supreme court, I mean, or, the interpretation of the constitution and it seems like everybody stopped and then, and then once they sort of reallowed it, Texas was one of the first to, uh, to actually, uh, implement it again.
[speaker001:] Oh, really?
[speaker002:] They do it by, uh, by, do it by lethal injection.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Uh, I'm originally from Kansas and in Kansas also, uh, they, they almost immediately put back capital punishment and, uh, there they do it by hanging.
[speaker001:] Wow.
[speaker002:] Still, uh, they have, I still remember the, the, the movie, uh, IN COLD BLOOD. I don't know if you've ever, I'm sure you're familiar with it, but, have you seen the movie?
[speaker001:] I haven't, no.
[speaker002:] Yeah. That way.
[speaker001:] And they do it that way?
[speaker002:] Yeah, well, they, they show it, not, not, I mean, the, the movie was made in, like, nineteen sixty-two or something like that
[speaker001:] Huh.
[speaker002:] and so it's, uh, it's not particularly graphic, but on the other hand it's, it's fairly impressive to watch them, you know, walk into the room with gallows. It's kind of a barn like structure.
[speaker001:] Wow. I think they're there, I think that capital punishment is, is, uh, in t-, in Utah also. I'm not really familiar.
[speaker002:] Is that right? Are you there in school?
[speaker001:] Yeah, I am.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] So, but I think they d-, a long time ago, I, I remember my dad was telling me this, I think, that, uh, they do it by, like, a bunch of men have guns and one of them has the real gun in it.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh, has, has a, yeah.
[speaker001:] So they don't know who killed,
[speaker002:] Has a real bullets and the rest of them have blanks?
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] Yeah, I, I certainly wouldn't want to be the executioner, I know that [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Yeah, no.
[speaker002:] I've always said that if I, if I had to kill and clean and do my own, my own meat, I think I'd become a vegetarian.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. I know.
[speaker002:] As long as you're sort of safely removed from it, it seems, seems not so, so bad, I guess.

[speaker001:] yeah the question was uh what kind of books do you read for entertainment uh uh I guess
[speaker002:] oh I just read for escape well I mean it's
[speaker001:] okay with two little kids I can understand that
[speaker002:] yes it's that's simple I read to escape and I don't read any Parents magazines either so
[speaker001:] oh what uh what kind of
[speaker002:] well I just finished just I just finished one last night a great book it it's very a typical for my reading though but a great book one called The Things They Carried by Tim O'Brien
[speaker001:] hum
[speaker002:] and it's uh God I don't know if I would call it a collection of Vietnam war stories or if I'd call it a collection of Vietnam love stories
[speaker001:] oh
[speaker002:] strange book beautifully written
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] just beautifully written
[speaker001:] by uh somebody who was there or
[speaker002:] yeah a guy who was there as a uh foot soldier so he considered himself to be you know a a true Vietnam soldier
[speaker001:] um-hum yeah well any of the guys that were ground yes yeah I can imagine
[speaker002:] yeah so what's the latest one you've read
[speaker001:] yeah well I tell you what I'm a kind of uh a history nut I'm trying to think back now I read an awful lot of uh periodicals and uh you know almost what you call reference book and uh the last uh I'm embarrassed to say the last you know honest to gosh cover to cover book that I read I cannot
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] right offhand I tried to read uh one of the the Michener uh Lone Star or the the Texas History Book
[speaker002:] I have never been able to make it through any of Michener's work
[speaker001:] oh well I've had similar problems it does tend to to
[speaker002:] have you are you a Civil War buff at all
[speaker001:] yeah as a matter of fact yeah
[speaker002:] because I finished one I think this is like two years ago and somebody had given me one of these dinky do crappy women's novels set in the Civil War John Jakes one and the novel didn't do that much for me but boy the period of time was fascinating
[speaker001:] yeah uh-huh
[speaker002:] so I then read was it Battle Cry of Freedom
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] yeah I think it was Battle of Freedom it's kind of like a historical compendium
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] of the Civil War and it's not a story of the Civil War it's a story of all the politics and uh lobbying and just basically state by state events that led
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] to of the events that brought about the Civil War and it's fascinating because I had always you know have been raised on this you know Emancimation Proclamation with the Civil War
[speaker001:] uh-huh there was a lot more to it than that weren't there
[speaker002:] there was a lot more to it than that as a matter of fact that was a very minor part that kind of become like an afterthought
[speaker001:] yeah well it was a political move it was made to placate some of the northern support but not completely alienate all the southern
[speaker002:] oh yeah
[speaker001:] support because you know it was uh if you read it it only emancipated those who were in areas uh in rebellion against the United States all the other areas which would I think at that time would have included West Virginia and oh may have been Kentucky a few states you know that were not part of the South but still had slaves they didn't emancipate them
[speaker002:] um-hum well you know what else really surprised me now I'm married to a native Texan and I'm not
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] uh
[speaker001:] I've got the same problem
[speaker002:] yeah I'm glad you put it that way and I have two native Texan children too my husband is always you know talked about Texas being a uh rebel state and oh my God all this Civil War pride
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] I kept waiting for where's some reference to this God damn State of Texas and the role that they played either leading up to or in the Civil War they might as well have not even
[speaker001:] isn't isn't much there is there
[speaker002:] been there you know they weren't a state and the only the only way that they had any part in it was after worth as to you know who's going to be going there and I keep telling my husband that and he keeps saying oh no I thought okay
[speaker001:] they supplied some uh you know they were some groups uh the Vicksburg if you ever get a chance to go over to Vicksburg the battleground at Vicksburg uh there's an area there where there was uh some Texas uh groups and they had an interesting time there
[speaker002:] oh I'll bet they did
[speaker001:] and down there at Sabine Pass uh I can't think of the guy's name but he held off the you know just he and a handful of guys managed to hold off the whole Union navy for a while from coming up the Sabine River which was of no consequence but still is an interesting story
[speaker002:] well you know why they actually held them off none of the Yankees wanted to listen to their kind of luted grammar
[speaker001:] that could be it could be it
[speaker002:] now you didn't hear me say that outside of um
[speaker001:] and then the last Civil War battle was fought at Val Verde you know over there on the Texas border you had a lot of of groups heading for Mexico and they were cut off at the pass more or less at Eagle Pass and they didn't get across the river there so they're the last and that was actually after the war was over but it was the last
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] organized battle between the two units was in Texas so yeah Texas participation in the Civil War was uh minor at uh
[speaker002:] boy don't tell that to a native Texan though I mean my God they fought and won the whole thing
[speaker001:] at best yeah yeah well my wife's from Galveston so
[speaker002:] ooh
[speaker001:] yeah Well I'm from New Mexico so you know I was
[speaker002:] that's a beautiful state that's a beautiful state see I was raised in the Midwest which you know hell we didn't even you know
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] we didn't even know where the Mason Dixon Line was and besides you know if corn didn't grow there it didn't matter
[speaker001:] it sounds like Iowa or something
[speaker002:] Iowa and Nebraska
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] yep and then I had probably lived the last eleven years in Massachusetts so you know what does that make me an honorary Yankee or
[speaker001:] hum yeah on yeah
[speaker002:] God knows what
[speaker001:] oh well my sister's living in Illinois right now so
[speaker002:] well then she's going to come out well rounded but outside of those kind of things you know the other thing that I've really gotten into reading
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] I think this is because the kids are getting to me
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] is science fiction
[speaker001:] I've always kind of enjoyed it I I used to read a lot more than I do now
[speaker002:] well I've gone to the point where my husband my husband travels I get out like you know two or three books
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] and I I'm trying to think of oh Isaac Asimov Robot series
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] I mean I think I've read all four of them and I understand that there's a fifth in the last six weeks he's been on the road a lot
[speaker001:] um I just turned around and looked at my brief at my briefcase my uh bookcase up here and I see Armageddon up there and uh the Shadow of Blooming Grove and Two Thousand and Ten and Grant Takes Command and The War in the Year oh Space gee that was the one I was trying to wade through was Space James Michener didn't get very far on that
[speaker002:] you know I think I read Hawaii when I was about ten years old or so which is about the developmental level that you know you need to be at to read those things and I still even then I was so so disgusted with it I I tried to read
[speaker001:] yeah yeah
[speaker002:] I don't remember which other one it was whatever one it was it was such a blockbuster seller
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] and I just I got about like a hundred pages through it and realized I had like a thousand more I thought I can't do this
[speaker001:] yeah it really the the books are kind of uh imposing to say the least
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] no let's see here's one called Ghost Towns and Mining Camps of New Mexico now not too many people have read that one I don't think
[speaker002:] no
[speaker001:] and there's The History of Yoakum County Texas there
[speaker002:] is that a big thick book
[speaker001:] I've got uh yeah and I've got yeah and I've got a History of Kingsley Iowa
[speaker002:] what the what the hell for why Kingsley Iowa
[speaker001:] well because that's where my folks all came from and they had a centennial here awhile back
[speaker002:] oh okay
[speaker001:] I read the Grant Takes Command that was pretty good
[speaker002:] well
[speaker001:] that was part of that trilogy that uh Bruce Canton did
[speaker002:] now that's one that's one I don't know see I had never really been into science fiction that much until uh somebody gave me Mist of Avalon probably about five or six years ago I don't know if I'd call it science fiction or fantasy
[speaker001:] yeah sometimes it's awful hard some of those get very philosophical they can be in any setting they just happen to put them in a futuristic setting you know the
[speaker002:] well I loved that novel and then somebody said oh God this would have been even long ago because I was in Boston and it was raining all night and I had a hole in my roof and I was waiting for the whole house to collapse and uh I was reading Dune
[speaker001:] oh
[speaker002:] which seeming rather ironic
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] and I read the whole damn book while I was home hauling out you know like ten gallon buckets of of water and waiting for the roof to collapse and reading about these guys wearing their little Freeman Steel suits and
[speaker001:] uh-huh you're reading Dune
[speaker002:] I think that's probably my favorite of of any piece of science fiction that I've ever read and the movie was awful oh yes it was just terrible
[speaker001:] that was a movie too wasn't it was it yeah I'd I didn't see it but uh yeah
[speaker002:] it was it was beyond
[speaker001:] Patrick Stewart was in that I guess the guy that's on the new Star Trek series was in that thing uh
[speaker002:] I don't know I just remember Sting was in it
[speaker001:] oh really
[speaker002:] yeah and if you were trying to follow any type of uh
[speaker001:] uh
[speaker002:] plot it it total even having read the book and I've read that book probably three times watching that movie I couldn't figure out what they were talking about
[speaker001:] um-hum couldn't
[speaker002:] at all
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] I was real disappointed in that well I'll tell you another good book do you like scary things
[speaker001:] um well well some history books are pretty scary but yeah
[speaker002:] have you that's true have you read The Silence of the Lambs
[speaker001:] no somebody who saw the movie here the other day told me it was the most terrifying thing they'd ever seen they didn't sleep all night
[speaker002:] ooh well see I'm I'm debating whether I want to go see the movie after having read the book I mean the book is is chilling just chilling
[speaker001:] yeah I have no idea I don't have the foggiest notion what it is about
[speaker002:] then I won't tell you
[speaker001:] okay yeah but
[speaker002:] it's just that if you're ever ever really want to just be scared out of your wits
[speaker001:] um-hum that's the one
[speaker002:] that's the one yes
[speaker001:] even better than Jaws and some of that
[speaker002:] yes because the character the the character that is so horrible is another human being And you're just drawn into his his horror of him that you begin to kind of like him
[speaker001:] yeah oh
[speaker002:] that I mean
[speaker001:] a a Freddy Kruger type huh
[speaker002:] no no This guy's smart and he's suave and he's all the characteristics all the characteristics yeah all the characteristics
[speaker001:] oh the worst kind yeah yeah

[speaker002:] okay well uh what's your opinion about capital punishment
[speaker001:] well Cathy I think that uh capital punishment certainly has has a place in our society um maybe from the sense that there are some things that we just can't afford to have repeated uh even even in the remote chance of repetition
[speaker002:] right I think I would agree with you on that too I I can't see any point in keeping someone who's obviously beyond any kind of rehabilitation uh keeping them you know paying for them to live in prison for years and years and years when you could probably just eliminate the problem maybe spend the money on someone who could possibly be helped
[speaker001:] that might be true um um what I don't know is where do we draw the line
[speaker002:] right
[speaker001:] uh do we say that everyone who commits murder in the first degree is liable for capital punishment if that's what the jury decides is an appropriate punishment for their crime uh or do we extend it uh beyond that
[speaker002:] uh-huh beyond murder or just beyond like first degree murder
[speaker001:] well either you know uh I have a a nine year old daughter and there are some crimes that could be committed against her that are not even considered capital crimes that that I would consider basis for murder
[speaker002:] yeah yeah well that really gets into into a sticky issue uh I could see that too I think there's probably things I could think of short of murder that someone I think someone would probably deserve to be killed for but gosh and and who's going to decide which is how bad you know something that to you is really bad might not be quite so bad to me and yeah it's gets into a pretty sticky issues
[speaker001:] yes it does uh a lot of that has to do with the cultures that we grew up in and what's termed acceptable and and uh to what's allowable and and where are we
[speaker002:] right
[speaker001:] uh you know if we were lived in a different country then murder is not so bad
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] but over here where we're promised the civil liberties of pursuit life liberty and pursuit of happiness then taking that away is a a heinous act
[speaker002:] yeah in some eyes I think some people give up that I think some of what we consider rights are really more privileges than think what most people think of them as I don't know what um Texas's criteria for capital murder is do capital punishment is do you know are there some set guidelines like only under these circumstances
[speaker001:] I don't know I believe it's uh at the discretion of the judge or or jury
[speaker002:] uh-huh I used to live in Virginia and I know when they first reinstated capital punishment it was only um if someone killed a police officer or someone committed rape and then murder those were the only two circumstances where you could give someone the death penalty which I think is a little too limited
[speaker001:] I tend to agree with you there um my belief is that is that uh any crime that's freely committed you know freedom of choice these these people had a choice of committing this crime
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] that involves the taking of another's life or the altering of someone's life
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] such as rape deserves punishment by death but then I'm also told that I'm a pretty harsh person
[speaker002:] yeah in general terms I'm not so harsh but then whenever I hear of a specific case you know where someone did something then it's it's like yeah put it to them so I I think I probably tend to be a little bit harsh too as far as that goes because yeah I think you're right that person voluntarily gives up when they decide to commit that crime they voluntarily give up their right to continue on with their happy life just because you know they they ruin someone else's life
[speaker001:] oh I I can see a difference between a person who goes out to rob a store for food
[speaker002:] right
[speaker001:] than a person who commits a crime to uh either for the thrill of committing the crime or the thrill the feeling of power that they get from it or to acquire drugs for some other I mean acquire funds for some other illegal activity
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] you know that second group of people falls into the the group that I say give up their rights the the first guy I you know I just assumed that it was a guy the first person that that went out to rob a store for food that to me is is a different set of circumstances where he he deserves help instead of uh the loss of life
[speaker002:] right yeah he didn't go out with the intent of hurting someone else
[speaker001:] that's right or with the
[speaker002:] or with no regard for someone else's well being what about uh like teenagers that get involved in a gang and do a drive by shooting or something like that say fifteen sixteen year old would you consider uh capital punishment for them
[speaker001:] I think I would probably lower the age to about fourteen
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] there's some and and I certainly don't know myself but somebody needs to do a study that says at what age true and complete logical thought to include the the consideration of of long term consequences
[speaker002:] right yeah what age that they're accountable for their actions
[speaker001:] begins you know I I have an eighteen year old and uh it well he's nineteen now and I don't think that I saw it in him until maybe last year uh and I have an eleven and eleven year old and a nine year old and I don't don't see it in them yet but I'm I'm not sure where it begins
[speaker002:] yeah I know that they are lowering the age of uh whatever is considered a minor I think the kids certain kids are have been tried as adults who were a lot younger than they used to be like I think I read about a boy that was nine or ten that got mad at some playmates and went in and got a gun and just opened fire on them and they were trying to charge him as as a

[speaker001:] What do you think about the, uh, Peace Corps or public service commitment?
[speaker002:] Uh, that's the first I've ever heard of it. I haven't heard of it, anything too much about it. Um,
[speaker001:] Well, I think it was, uh, thought up when there was so much controversy about reviving a draft and people said, well, they, uh, young people who were drafted have to provide military service to the country, but there are an awful lot of young people who would benefit from, um, some sort of public service,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] like the Conservation Corps back in the thirties or, uh, various other things of that sort. And it seems to me [baby] that it's, it's not a totally bad idea, but I don't quite see how they'd make it work.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] How would they decide who goes into, uh, building fire breaks in Yosemite National Park and who goes to Saudi Arabia?
[speaker002:] Right, yeah. I, the, my first impression was, um, it would be v-, very good. I think it would be good for people to serve, but I don't know if it should be an option. It would be great to have some of those organizations like you mentioned that were during the Depression or coming out of the Depression available for kids. And I think there are some available now where they are able to work, but making it a mandatory thing kind of,
[speaker001:] Yeah, the, the difficulty would be in whether it's voluntary or involuntary.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] And the people who were proposing it said that it should be involuntary, that it should be like a draft.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] And some people would get military service and some people would get civilian, uh,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] service, like working in hospitals. This, I assume it's the kinds of things that they had conscientious objectors do,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] when people were drafted and they refused to serve in the Army, they were allowed to do hospital service or, uh, things like that, and if they re-, or farm work in World War One I remember
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] uh, reading about. And, and I suppose that there is, uh, justification for taking everybody if you take anybody.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] But I just really think that the difficulties involved in paying them, uh, sorting them out, assigning them,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] training them would be insurmountable.
[speaker002:] It seems like you'd have a lot more conscie-, conscientious objectors if they had that choice.
[speaker001:] Yeah, well [LAUGHTER] it's a possibility.
[speaker002:] Yeah, you know, I'd, I'd much rather work in a hospital than, than to go war and I'm sure most young men and women would. And so, uh,
[speaker001:] Well, I think that in the, in the cases that, like that, uh, they had to be, uh, pretty thoroughly examined to prove that they had pacifist and religious beliefs and so forth,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and that this wasn't something new just to keep out of going to war. It was, uh, something that was a fundamental part of their philosophy of life.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh. Well, that makes sense. And then you run into, again, to, um, the bureaucracy in running it. You know, how you going to
[speaker001:] Oh, yeah.
[speaker002:] cover that many people because we've got a lot more people now than we did then
[speaker001:] Sure, and,
[speaker002:] so,
[speaker001:] in addition to that, we have the cost because you have to pay something for,
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] their room and board and then you have to pay them some kind of a stipend,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] uh, even if it's like the Peace Corps where they don't get most of it until they come home,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] you have t-, have to pay them something.
[speaker002:] Plus the training involved.
[speaker001:] Oh, yeah.
[speaker002:] Yeah, that would be expensive in most cases.
[speaker001:] Yeah,
[speaker002:] Because,
[speaker001:] Now I had a lot of friends who went to the Peace Corps, uh, back in the mid sixties
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and it really did seem to be a worthwhile organization, but on the other hand, I'm not sure what the permanent value of it was. I don't,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] know what we got for all the money. We had an awful lot of idealistic people who went off to, uh, what was then East Pakistan is now Bangladesh,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and to, uh, Algeria and to, uh, Southeast Asia and lots of, uh, out-of-the-way places. But I don't know if they really had significant effects in the places where they went,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] in teaching the people how to cope with their lives better.
[speaker002:] Well, I know in, I personally took a year and a half and went as a missionary and taught Christianity in Japan.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And I was living such a stringent lifestyle that it was very beneficial to me. It taught me not to be so self-centered and it, you know, to think of others.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] But I don't know if I was doing it in different situation, you know, not a really religious background, if, if I would get a lot out of it. You know, I think I did because it, you know, it emphasized that sort of thing. You know, a lot of
[speaker001:] Sure.
[speaker002:] self evaluation.
[speaker001:] And it was definitely voluntary, too. They were not drafting you and sending you,
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] against your will.
[speaker002:] Right. And that, I'm sure that would make a big difference, too. You know, you've got,
[speaker001:] Yeah. Well, what about a voluntary program? Do you think that would be a good idea?
[speaker002:] Um, well, like I say, I know that there are some type of programs that they have available for a youth, like teenagers to go and do, um, work in the national parks and work in, uh, neighborhoods to do, um, clean up and that sort of thing. But I don't know what organization it's under. I don't know if it's a government run or if it's a private
[speaker001:] I don't either.
[speaker002:] charity that's put it together. But I know that that helps a lot with training and, um
[speaker001:] Yeah, out here in California,
[speaker002:] a lot of,
[speaker001:] there's a program like that for, uh, juvenile delinquents, the, the ones that are not dangerous and they don't have to be locked up go to these, uh, camps. And they,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] do forestry work. They maintain trails and they, uh, put up signs and they do fire prevention work and certainly things of that sort.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] And that I know is run by the State, but there may be other things. I'm not so sure what kind of, uh, training that is for the future for those kids.
[speaker002:] Yeah, how much benefit,
[speaker001:] It's probably a,
[speaker002:] it'll do them in the long run?
[speaker001:] a very good way to keep them off the streets and out of trouble, but whether it's something that they can put to, to economic use later on is a different subject.
[speaker002:] Right, especially in, you know, if you take a, a child that's from the inner city and then put them in the, a middle of a park, if they go back to the inner city, they may not see trees for a while,
[speaker001:] That's true [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] much less be able to take care of them [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Good point [LAUGHTER], oh.
[speaker002:] So that's, yeah, so that may not, may not benefit them in the long run.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] But,
[speaker001:] Yeah, I'm sorry, I'm going to have to go, but my other line is blinking.
[speaker002:] Okay, well, thank you.
[speaker001:] But it was good to talk to you.
[speaker002:] You, too, bye-bye.

[speaker001:] all right
[speaker002:] yes yes I think we're terribly taxed I I think the Republicans have taxed us just as much as the Democrats and I don't think there's a change between one party than the other uh I think we get get a lot back but not as much as we should
[speaker001:] uh I guess what I feel about it is that it's so mismanaged that it there's got to be something when when we pay so much for the for the debt instead of using the money for where it ought to go it it's just it's ridiculous What kills me is when they had a chance to to uh put into action action the the Gramm the Gramm Rudman what is it
[speaker002:] right
[speaker001:] uh the act where they had to cut everything across the board they kept doing they kept putting off doing that why did they do that that's exactly what they needed to do to get their act together
[speaker002:] the Gramm the Gramm Rudman Act yeah yeah well I think they spend too much they they spend too much on themselves too the the
[speaker001:] oh yeah I think so too
[speaker002:] a lot of the the taxes gets back to the members of the Congress and everything all running for twenty years rather than
[speaker001:] yeah well things like mailings they don't use any kind of restraint on some of these things they just think once they get there that they can do just anything you know they don't they don't try to uh to conserve
[speaker002:] no you're right
[speaker001:] and of course here at home we end up conserving and conserving and I mean when I don't have money I don't buy something
[speaker002:] yeah no I think uh it it is the Congress and them just don't have any interest in saving us money uh
[speaker001:] they sure don't seem to
[speaker002:] the national debt is terrible uh
[speaker001:] there're a couple of things I think we need to really work for and I don't know quite how to do it but I think we need to have the one line uh uh veto so that they don't have to spend so much time doing everything if it's a good idea it can be done again
[speaker002:] right oh yeah
[speaker001:] you know and if it's not so what at least you haven't thrown out all the work they've done for months and months and months and months
[speaker002:] yeah I saw one on Twenty Twenty uh about a month ago I guess whereas one I think that he was a Senator from Pennsylvania or something like that maybe it was uh Connecticut I'm not sure one of the small states up there where he had a bill through for another um a drug agency that would be located there and he was the only one that wanted it it was going to cost millions of dollars the drug agency didn't want it and he was going to build it in his home town and they were going to hire a lot of people and it was ridiculous you know the whole thing and and you know they they asked him about it and
[speaker001:] yeah this is that's right
[speaker002:] do you really need this this is going to cost a lot of money oh yes we need it but do you know that the drug agency doesn't want this
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] and they do things that are you know just like the uh
[speaker001:] yeah that's just an awful lot of that kind of thing going on and the trouble is you don't you have so little input about it you don't know enough
[speaker002:] yeah that right
[speaker001:] to know what what to do about some of this stuff I
[speaker002:] right yeah they're supposed to do what we say but they do what they they want to do really
[speaker001:] yeah that's right the other thing about is I think uh limiting their time in office would be good I I just can't believe there aren't other people out there that could do just as well as what we've got
[speaker002:] absolutely absolutely we need to get that through we we have said that I've said it several times on different subjects about the government that two year two terms is enough for all of them
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] uh whether you're mayor all the way up city council the works I think certainly President that uh two terms is plenty
[speaker001:] yeah I think that's right
[speaker002:] and then we get these professionals out of there and they have to learn how to earn a living again themselves you know rather than living off of us
[speaker001:] yeah wouldn't that be too bad  well that's right I think I don't know I think uh people in general the the the the idea of what you need to to exist is so outrageous that it's not hardly you know it starts at the courts it starts everywhere
[speaker002:] um-hum right
[speaker001:] until we can't we've just lost control of of any kind of perspective about what is acceptable and what is not acceptable you know
[speaker002:] well it's so much money and you can't even add it up you know that's why they think it's
[speaker001:] no you can't even can't even conceive of what they're talking about
[speaker002:] yeah when you talk about the trillions of dollars on this and that our national debt in the trillions of dollars you know
[speaker001:] yeah yeah I mean it just and and you just the other thing is it's it's all very well to give money to help people other people and I think we need to do that but there are they need to put more limits on them they need to restrain about what they do
[speaker002:] foreign aid yeah foreign aid means to go down to almost zero unless it's absolutely necessary they they've given that away for fifty years
[speaker001:] yeah I I you know I think that's probably unless unless we can afford it if we pay off the debts then we can give it to people again
[speaker002:] I agree I agree
[speaker001:] you know I don't really mind helping people but you you need to get rid of this thing that's that's just uh eating us up
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] you know and get things on a on an even if it were if it were a family we'd be up before the the magistrate
[speaker002:] right
[speaker001:] for for doing all these wicked things you know but the government does it and it's all right
[speaker002:] yeah I I know we're taxed to death on every every thing I don't know what's the best way to do it but uh they don't even talk about that they just raise it they don't even consider it like you saying is to cut something back you know
[speaker001:] yeah that's true well sounds like
[speaker002:] they are at least doing something now with the uh the military you know they're cutting some of that but of course now you know TI you know that's hurting us but although
[speaker001:] yeah it's good to see them doing some things there anyway
[speaker002:] TI has gotten a lot of good contracts from the war and everything else and if they'll get a lot of programs in the future because of their exotic uh weapon systems but uh
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] that's the only good that I've seen Congress do you know and everybody and all the Congressmen and the President and everybody uh
[speaker001:] well I think we have to accept the fact that whatever happens we're going to have to bite the bullet and we're all going to have to do it I it just isn't fair though that when this happens in some places it needs to all come off everywhere
[speaker002:] yeah yeah
[speaker001:] that's why I thought well you know this is the time they need to put that into action into action and show they mean business that they've got to cut they've got to cut costs
[speaker002:] yeah the only taxes I think that are well spent well not the only but uh I think the now I I don't understand the present school thing but uh I have two daughters one's in college already and one's about uh to be in high school but uh I think that paying for school schools is the schools is the only answer really to get rid of crime and so I don't mind paying for school taxes even though my kids will be out of it you know
[speaker001:] yeah I think that's right well I don't I don't really mind paying taxes for for positive things that are helps like roads and making sure that uh that water is safe and some of these things but um
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] you know it you just fe el like it's out of control you feel like they do not have control of it and that and so then it just aggravates you you know you think I could spend my money I could help the poor people better by myself than they're doing
[speaker002:] yeah the spending is out of control yeah oh I agree with you
[speaker001:] so it's
[speaker002:] I I thin k that's a wide open subject what I think that uh people need to take a stand I think the people will here shortly uh
[speaker001:] yeah well I think that's right if they don't do if they don't if they don't pull it in and start doing something I think they're really going to have to I think
[speaker002:] I think the next time we have an election we need to try to get some of the ones that have been there forever out too that what they did last election and uh ninety some odd percent of the same old boys got back in you know so we need to try to get people to two terms so they respect our wishes you know they're supposed to represent us that's what they're called but they don't
[speaker001:] yeah yeah
[speaker002:] maybe maybe maybe we can change and get us rid of some of those guys that are in there guys and gals whatever they are
[speaker001:] yeah in some ways we're awful lucky I guess there a lot of lot of places where it's worse than it is here but
[speaker002:] I know but it
[speaker001:] still you don't want it to get that bad good heavens
[speaker002:] no that's right you don't want to uh you want it to stay as good as it possibly can be
[speaker001:] no we need to get try to get hold of it and and have it be things be honest and and I guess in the fact I don't really mind paying taxes but I would just like to know that they're not being foolishly spent that they're doing something that's positive for for somebody
[speaker002:] right
[speaker001:] I don't really feel like uh I don't really feel like I use taxes very much I don't know maybe I do more than I I guess I do I use them in the in roads and lot of things but uh
[speaker002:] yeah that's you're right well I think one of the good ones in the metroplex uh in the last say twenty five years or so maybe longer they've built all these dams you know the Corps of Engineers have uh soon as they finish a lake they'll go at get another one and that we haven't had we've had droughts here in long summers
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] we've had good water supply and that's due to the Corps of Engineers building looking years ahead and building all these reservoirs for us you know
[speaker001:] yeah they've done some good things the state actually did some good good work on that in that a couple of years ago
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] uh Sam Johnson came out and talked to us about that bout what they had done and they they really had done some good
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] some good work
[speaker002:] yeah I think anything for water supply like California should do more of that too
[speaker001:] yeah yeah there are a lot of places places where they're in real trouble and and I think it would be easy enough to be in trouble here too if they don't take if they don't take that early stand
[speaker002:] right right they just finished Joe Poole Lake over here and they need to start another one I think every time they finish one they ought to just have another one in line the water's critical
[speaker001:] yeah that's probably right the growth is fast enough so that they can't afford to just dawdle and wait until something until they need them
[speaker002:] right
[speaker001:] well it's good to talk to you
[speaker002:] okay yeah how many calls have you made
[speaker001:] oh about nine
[speaker002:] oh yeah I'm up to twenty are you a TI'er
[speaker001:] no I just just a housewife I just heard about it and found it fun guess I like to talk that's all
[speaker002:] oh well great great okay well it's been some interesting subjects yeah
[speaker001:] right
[speaker002:] thanks for calling bye-bye
[speaker001:] uh-huh bye now

[speaker001:] So you have a child
[speaker002:] Yeah we,
[speaker001:] two years old in child care right now. *slash error
[speaker002:] Two year old daughter in child care and we went through the process of searching for child care and
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] uh, finding what we consider to be,
[speaker001:] [Squeak] [door].
[speaker002:] real good child care at a, uh, pretty reasonable price, we think.
[speaker001:] Uh,
[speaker002:] How about you, do you have any children?
[speaker001:] Yes, our first and he just turned three months.
[speaker002:] Oh, boy.
[speaker001:] So, we're [NOISE] just starting into hunting for child [NOISE] care.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Right now, both of us are students.
[speaker002:] Are you? Where are
[speaker001:] Uh,
[speaker002:] a student?
[speaker001:] Uh, University of Southern Mississippi.
[speaker002:] No kidding.
[speaker001:] Uh, she's,
[speaker002:] I was a professor in a university here in California for a while.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] Yeah, uh, are you going to, uh, put your son in child care in a, a year or two?
[speaker001:] Uh, probably. Uh, actually spring semester a year from now he's going to have to be in child care f-, uh, five days a week more than likely.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Uh, depending on how my class schedule runs because my wife will be doing her internship that semester.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] It will be forty hour week, not, no, eight to five type of thing.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] [Inhaling] So [breathing], depending on what my class schedule looks like, he may spend four, si-, anywhere from four to eight hours a day in child care at that point. Right now we're trying to avoid it, but we just, as a matter of fact just yesterday hired a, a girl to, uh, watch him. Uh, [breathing] I get out of class at certain time and my wife is already supposed to be on her way to her class. You know, once a day this overlap happens where we can't, one of us
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] be home.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] So for about twenty min-, twenty, thirty minutes a day we got a baby-sitter comes in.
[speaker002:] Well, that's a good experience, I think, and, uh, [throat clearing] there are a lot of things to think about and the articles that are written on the topic,
[speaker001:] [Thumping].
[speaker002:] are pretty good and they kind of boil down to, uh, any other important decision you really have to explore the alternative
[speaker001:] Uh-huh [faint].
[speaker002:] and what we found, uh, to be the best guide was our own instincts about,
[speaker001:] [Clinking].
[speaker002:] people who were going to be loving
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] and, uh, [throat clearing] that's more important than anything else. We could have sent, uh, her to a fancier, uh, facility.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Uh, she goes to a home. This is a, uh,
[speaker001:] [Clinking].
[speaker002:] a couple, uh, emigrated from China early
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] in, in their lives. They've been here probably thirty, forty years.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] They've got three daughters. Uh, and,
[speaker001:] [Child yelling].
[speaker002:] they have a loving home and, uh, they're both there and they have a kid that comes in and helps them in the afternoon.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And our daughter is healthy, happy, well adjusted and enjoys going
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] to see her friends, so
[speaker001:] Uh, that makes a big difference.
[speaker002:] it's a good experience. I th-, if it's good, I think it's very good for the child.
[speaker001:] Yes.
[speaker002:] And if it's,
[speaker001:] [Child crying].
[speaker002:] a loving environment, I think it's very good and, and that's really what we've learned about it. She'll have to go on to something more stimulating in terms of preschool in a year
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] but, uh, we feel real fortunate and we were able to, uh, just, uh, choose in the marketplace. I don't know what it's like around, uh, Hattiesburg.
[speaker001:] There's a lot of child care available, but
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] invariably there's waiting lists.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] And we were a little slow getting on the waiting list
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] with the, uh, okay, the university, uh, university's, uh
[speaker002:] I'll bet they're involved.
[speaker001:] uh, department of, uh, uh, their Home Ec Department
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] uh, they, uh, they have a subbranch, uh, American Family Counseling and their people staff this, this, uh, the child care center just off campus. But, uh, they have a pretty good size waiting list.
[speaker002:] Yeah [screeching].
[speaker001:] So,
[speaker002:] Well, that's, uh, I know it's, it's a real hard thing to do, even for people in, in, uh, university communities.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Out here at Manford, they have a, you know, a, a, a real good facility and there, uh, is quite a waiting list to get into that.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] So it's, uh, uh, you know, it's a, it's a, it's an important,
[speaker001:] [Talking].
[speaker002:] decision, it's an industry that's still a cottage industry
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] and I think this is b-, really
[speaker001:] Well, it's best, *slash error
[speaker002:] is buyer beware.
[speaker001:] Yeah, a cottage industry's the best way to do it really,
[speaker002:] Well, it is the best way
[speaker001:] because if you over,
[speaker002:] to do it, interestingly. I think that, uh, my own interest in, in development, human development
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] leads me to believe that that's a good sign and that, uh, private enterprise is the way to go and that it will lead to a
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] fundamental change in the way we learn.
[speaker001:] [Clinking] Yeah.
[speaker002:] Because, I think what we're going to go to is much more commercial entrepreneurial learning ventures in the market. As a matter of fact, my future is banked on that, uh, professionally because I believe that, that there are, uh, pressing needs in the marketplace, unmet by schools, colleges
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] universities for, uh, learning a lot of things that kids can learn watching Sesame Street and in child care.
[speaker001:] [Noise].
[speaker002:] Primary skills which turn out
[speaker001:] Yes.
[speaker002:] to be the most important skills in life.
[speaker001:] And it's amazing how much good things like, uh, Sesame Street will do.
[speaker002:] It's, it's phenomenal.
[speaker001:] .
[speaker002:] It's phenomenal, the programming, the human operating system,

[speaker001:] Okay [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Was I supposed to do something?
[speaker001:] No. I had to press one.
[speaker002:] Good [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Uh, let's see, so, uh, were we right in the Middle East?
[speaker001:] Sure.
[speaker002:] Should we have been there?
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Did we do what was correct there?
[speaker001:] I think we should have stayed longer.
[speaker002:] Should we have fought them harder? Used more weapons equal to their chemical weapons that weren't used?
[speaker001:] Uh, I think what we did was good, but I think we just should have stayed there longer and continued doing what we did do.
[speaker002:] Oh, you agree with Schwartzkopf who says, uh, Drive on into Baghdad.
[speaker001:] Yeah. I think we should have stayed and kind of helped the people in Iraq out now because it's kind of like a civil war going on now. And it's almost like they're killing each other off and there is not going to be anything left of Iraq at all [NOISE] [sounds like zipping].
[speaker002:] Would that be so bad? Was there anything there to begin with?
[speaker001:] Well, I think, I don't think it would be good if we were to completely lose it, um.
[speaker002:] It wasn't ours.
[speaker001:] Well, no, I just mean that, that, the world in general [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] We've got to talk so it's just, just as well we argue.
[speaker001:] Yeah. Um, I don't know, I think we should have helped the, the innocent people in Iraq out a little bit more,
[speaker002:] I agree.
[speaker001:] than, rather than just quitting where we did.
[speaker002:] Wouldn't it have been wonderful if we could have freed the country.
[speaker001:] Yes [LAUGHTER]. But I think that's almost impossible, next to impossible.
[speaker002:] Yeah. So other political things that's going on. I heard Mister Bush say, excuse me, President Bush say that he, uh, wanted to improve the highways.
[speaker001:] Oh, see, I haven't really been keeping up with them so I really don't know what he said.
[speaker002:] [Cough].
[speaker001:] What did he say about it?
[speaker002:] Oh, he wanted to take the current secondary highway system
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] and turn it into interstates like the rest of the country.
[speaker001:] We don't have the money for that.
[speaker002:] But wouldn't it be wonderful.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] It would be really nice because I'm kind of tired of driving in pot holes [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] And back east,
[speaker001:] [Beep].
[speaker002:] you all drive at fifty-five, don't you? What's that?
[speaker001:] I'm sorry, I dropped the phone [LAUGHTER] [NOISE].
[speaker002:] Oh, okay, um, I say back east you all drive at fifty-five don't you?
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] See, out here in the west a lot of our secondary roads are fifty-five
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] we drive sixty-five.
[speaker001:] Oh, really.
[speaker002:] Oh, yes.
[speaker001:] . [Voice is distorted.]
[speaker002:] Well, I, uh, last weekend, went home to visit my parents. My dad's in the hospital.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And, uh, between here and west Texas, there was probably three and four hours at sixty-five miles an hour.
[speaker001:] Oh, I didn't realize that.
[speaker002:] Nonstop. Have you ever been out here?
[speaker001:] No, huh-uh.
[speaker002:] How far west have you been?
[speaker001:] Only in Ohio.
[speaker002:] Oh, you've never,
[speaker001:] I've never been past Ohio.
[speaker002:] You've never seen the great American desert.
[speaker001:] No, huh-uh. I've never seen anything out, I never seen the great, I've seen,
[speaker002:] The Rocky Mountains?
[speaker001:] I've never seen, I've seen pictures of it but,
[speaker002:] Yellowstone?
[speaker001:] I've never been there. I've seen pictures, I just, I'm a college student and, um, I'm paying for my own education and I'm, I come from a large family and we, we we're never able to take vacations because there's, there's twelve kids in the family.
[speaker002:] Uh,
[speaker001:] So,
[speaker002:] Well, my college educa-, uh, thirty-six, worked for Texas Instruments for [breathing] seventeen or eighteen now.
[speaker001:] Oh, my.
[speaker002:] Uh, know, virtually nothing else.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Uh, yeah. I got my four year,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] got my B S in General Science.
[speaker001:] Really.
[speaker002:] Yeah, I know, it's a funny degree [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Anyway, uh, I know nothing other than the west.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] In fact, uh, down in east Texas
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] where the company's located
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] there's streams and water and things I don't understand. Trees and the gulf and it's really interesting.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] So tell me about where you live.
[speaker001:] Well, um, I'm, I'm originally from Butler and that's about an hour away from where I am now. I'm at Clairon. And, um, it's, it's pretty, like, windy and hilly.
[speaker002:] Uh, how high is the highest elevation?
[speaker001:] Oh, I couldn't even tell you.
[speaker002:] Like, uh, probably
[speaker001:] It's not like a mountain. It wouldn't be like a mountain. It's, uh,
[speaker002:] three thousand feet?
[speaker001:] Oh, I don't even know. I have no clue.
[speaker002:] Close to sea level?
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] I would say it's closer to sea level.
[speaker002:] Okay, uh, right here in Colorado Springs where I live
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] it's over six thousand foot.
[speaker001:] Oh, well, see, um, [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] Um, yes when I lived in Texas, every year I had to drive, you know. I drove every year to the gulf and, you know, so I could have a feast of fresh seafood
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] six, eight, twelve hours away.
[speaker001:] Um.
[speaker002:] You know, just, just for fresh. I, I'm really interested in the basic concept differences between west and east coast and the central parts of America.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] How many hours have you been from home?
[speaker001:] Uh, the farthest away from home?
[speaker002:] Yes.
[speaker001:] Probab-, [sigh] I'd say five or six.
[speaker002:] Oh, yeah.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Uh, now when I was growing up in the Panhandle of Texas, look at your map later and see the, the town of Amarillo
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] fifty miles north of that up in the Panhandle. To just go buy a pair of jeans, we'd drive an hour.
[speaker001:] Oh, my [LAUGHTER]. Oh, my Gosh.
[speaker002:] When I was growing up,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Now things are different and people buy jeans in town, but uh, we thought nothing at all of wake up, waking up in the morning hopping into your car, grabbing the fishing poles and driving four hours.
[speaker001:] Oh, yes. Now see for me, that's a long ways.
[speaker002:] Yeah. It is I imagine.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh. Even, well, like, I, I'm in like a little town right now. It's smaller than Butler and, um, Butler, Butler is about an hour north east of Pittsburgh. So that will give you some idea of where I'm at.
[speaker002:] Okay.
[speaker001:] And I'm about,
[speaker002:] Okay, I'll look at my map later.
[speaker001:] I'm about two hours north east of Pittsburgh.
[speaker002:] Wow. How neat.
[speaker001:] And, uh, I mean just this, this little town here is basically a college town. The college, without the college here, this town would be nothing. It would be absolutely dead. Because it's completely made up of fast food restaurants and, and in the summer when we co-, uh, my fianc3ee's family lives up there, *typo we come up here in the summer, and it's, I mean, there's just no one around.
[speaker002:] So are you working your way through college?
[speaker001:] Um, well, I go home in the summer and I work in the summer and between what I make in the summer and student loans, that's how I go to college.
[speaker002:] Well, how neat. What's your major?
[speaker001:] Finance.
[speaker002:] Finance.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Well, that's interesting.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] So, uh, what do you plan to do with it?
[speaker001:] Um, well, like I said my fianc3ee, *typo
[speaker002:] Savings and loans, uh,
[speaker001:] No [LAUGHTER]. No, no, no, um, my fianc3ee works down in D C *typo and I'd actually like to work for a company rather than a bank or a, something. I'd rather work for a company and, um, like be their financial advisor or something.
[speaker002:] Oh, that would be great. That would be neat [breathing]. Let's see, uh, so we're all excited in Colorado Springs.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Apple Computer is coming to town.
[speaker001:] Oh, really.
[speaker002:] Yes. The, uh, new employer is in the city.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] So we're expecting our local economy to [breathing],
[speaker001:] Take a boom a little bit.
[speaker002:] Well, maybe not a boom, but, uh, at least, recover to where we can all hold regular forty hour jobs still.
[speaker001:] Well, well what would be the unemployment rate out there?
[speaker002:] Uh, unemployment runs approximately six percent.
[speaker001:] See that's what it is here too.
[speaker002:] But, now under employment I would suspect to run closer to eighteen or twenty percent.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And the problem is that there are no good permanent full time jobs for people without a technical four year degree.
[speaker001:] Yeah. It's even getting hard for the four year people to find jobs.
[speaker002:] Yes. It is.
[speaker001:] I know people they are out of school for two or three years and they have a job that has nothing to do...

[speaker001:] so what do you think
[speaker002:] uh the causes of crime um I think it was an imbalance of of power in the United States that's causing the lower class class to rebel that's why there's such such high crime in uh there's crime in uh young people because they don't have real role models
[speaker001:] yep
[speaker002:] see too much crime on TV and they think it's way to go I don't know what do you think
[speaker001:] what about I agree with the upper and lower level you know
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] because that's the lowest thing for themselves plus there's nobody for them to look up to
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] but I also blame some of it on parents
[speaker002:] okay
[speaker001:] because parents aren't parents
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] because I remember even when I was growing up I'm thirty five I remember when I was growing up and I had friends
[speaker002:] okay
[speaker001:] that used to do stuff like you know go to the store and steal stuff my mother warned us it's like I don't care what your friends do if you do it then that was it I mean I knew that I would get mean more trouble from my mother than from
[speaker002:] yeah from anybody else
[speaker001:] from anybody else and I think that's the basic is they have no morals anymore so they don't care
[speaker002:] yeah yeah
[speaker001:] so
[speaker002:] yeah I think I can agree with that too
[speaker001:] but now as far as what they can do about it I don't know you can't make parents be parents
[speaker002:] that's true you got to kind of make want people wanna do the right thing
[speaker001:] you know
[speaker002:] I don't know how you do that
[speaker001:] I guess if you gave the gave them jobs that that's another problem with the United States there's no jobs anymore
[speaker002:] yeah well I I've heard this one theory that if you know if a kid commits a crime that they've instead of the prosecuting the kid they prosecute the parent or both of them
[speaker001:] but
[speaker002:] now put put the blame on the parent
[speaker001:] that'll work to a point well that'd work to a point because some kids are just bad anyway I don't care what you do to them
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] you know so I think it depends on how much trouble that kids has been in you know
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] because uh a child can get into anything regardless I don't care who how good you they are
[speaker002:] yeah yeah
[speaker001:] eventually at least one time but now if it's a repeated thing here with this child in juvenile and all this to me yeah both of them because that means she's still not doing what she's supposed to do
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] because I just watched it on TV one night on one of them um Twenty Twenty Forty Eight Hours one of them shows where this boy had been stealing cars
[speaker002:] um-hum yeah
[speaker001:] I don't know if you seen they was the gang a little it was a little gang of them stealing cars you know and then when they caught him you know his mother sitting there now they're gonna take me away from you that means she was warned
[speaker002:] hm no I didn't see it yeah
[speaker001:] but see by that I think that sometimes it a little late
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] you know but I'm sure there's something can be done
[speaker002:] yeah what about with adults you think they can do anything about just adult regular adult crime
[speaker001:] yeah start prosecuting they but really good instead of having a revolving door on the damn court system
[speaker002:] yeah huh for well the major problem with that is the jails are overcrowded
[speaker001:] well they should start with the the if they would get rid of seems to me I know there's a lot about courts that people don't understand there's more people in jail right now for child support
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] okay then there are for people doing drugs
[speaker002:] hm
[speaker001:] they ought to take all them little misdemeanor people let them go let them go
[speaker002:] yeah yeah
[speaker001:] you know give them a fine whatever make them do civic duty whatever put them fools in there that's what they need to put I call I call them all fools idiots whatever little rock stars put all them in there
[speaker002:] yeah I mean seriously they ought to put those good people to work yeah hm
[speaker001:] you know the murderers the the drug dealers the user put them all in jail you know and let all the normal people go
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] you know because okay
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] if you write a bad check you go to jail right
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] okay let them people go
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] not let them go and get out of it let them go and pay their crime or their time doing something else
[speaker002:] well they yeah they you still have to punish yeah
[speaker001:] you know like cleaning up the city or however they do they community time you know whatever that is but
[speaker002:] yeah that's you know
[speaker001:] put don't put them in jail because they're not hardened criminals
[speaker002:] yeah and they're they're still they can provide for society whereas some of them are so far gone that they can't do anything good for society
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] so I don't know them people boy they got the I think the United States has got too many problems to be worried about everybody else
[speaker002:] yeah that's true
[speaker001:] now how they gonna fix it I don't know the I don't think there is a ready solution
[speaker002:] no I don't think so either um
[speaker001:] because the economy is down people you know the the the low man on the pole is getting more of the I guess the bulk of it
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] uh he's gonna have to work extra hard just to make ends meet
[speaker002:] and they keep taking more money from us yeah people and get and they don't have any incentive to work if we're just gonna take fifty percent of it
[speaker001:] um-hum yeah
[speaker002:] they might as well steal it then they don't have to pay taxes on it
[speaker001:] that's it
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] so you know they I I know that's bad but you know the just like Texas now
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] they could of had a lottery they don't want a lottery why not I would rather pay for a lottery a dollar two three dollars whatever I'm paying you know a week or whatever
[speaker002:] they'd have a yeah
[speaker001:] and never see any of that money than to have them take a portion of my paycheck
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] because you know they take and Uncle Sam takes his the Social Security which probably won't be here when I get that old you know
[speaker002:] hm
[speaker001:] because we're payin g for Social Security they using now who's gonna pay for mine
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] yeah but it's it's nah you don't count on Social Security but it's it's that's what I'm saying they need to do something else
[speaker002:] no I don't know definitely I'm not counting on it yeah hm
[speaker001:] but crime is gonna go up as long as the economy stays down
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] and it's gonna get worse that's just like last night they killed them people in that store where you at
[speaker002:] yeah uh I'm in Raleigh North Carolina
[speaker001:] oh no wonder you don't know then
[speaker002:] why where are you from
[speaker001:] they killed I'm in Dallas
[speaker002:] okay
[speaker001:] but last night they killed uh uh four people in a chain food
[speaker002:] oh man
[speaker001:] and killed them well it was two stores side by side
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] one was a store and one was like a a fast food place I think it chicken or something I don't know anyway they raped the women
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] beat them all up including the women I mean they just beat them stuffed them in the freezer and then shot them all
[speaker002:] ow
[speaker001:] now why was you know dumb
[speaker002:] why did they do it in the freezer
[speaker001:] you know why didn't they just if they was gonna lock just lock them in the freezer take the money you know they didn't have to kill them or rape them or anything
[speaker002:] yeah hm hm that's awful yeah we still get some in Raleigh I mean not not too often real bad ones but
[speaker001:] um-hum it's just getting really ridiculous down here I wish I could move somewhere where this you know you got to like in the country but
[speaker002:] I don't think there's anywhere where there isn't gonna be crime so
[speaker001:] well I think if it's the town is smaller
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] and everybody knows everybody it's harder to come in there and do something
[speaker002:] yeah yeah
[speaker001:] where is and and and see that's another thing neighborhoods aren't neighborhoods anymore
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] there's nobody next door to you you don't know your neighbors and stuff like that
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] it's just huh-uh you know because I moved out some apartments before because they were loaded with drug dealers
[speaker002:] hm
[speaker001:] and you didn't even and the what the manager the manager won't even do anything
[speaker002:] he's probably drug dealer himself never know
[speaker001:] um-hum you don't and so I moved because I moved the day probably a week after one of the apartments blew up
[speaker002:] wow
[speaker001:] you know and this is like across the street this was a nice part of town
[speaker002:] hm
[speaker001:] and then across the street one of the apartments blew up because they were having that making that um crack stuff and then the other time I saw the cops break down somebody's apartment around the corner I said see this is it
[speaker002:] hm time to go
[speaker001:] that's it and I moved and you know now I live in like a family a neighborhood in a townhouse but it's nice I don't you know
[speaker002:] yeah yeah I'm kind of in the same same kind of deal townhouse in the neighborhood
[speaker001:] but
[speaker002:] it's pretty nice
[speaker001:] I don't know how they can let a neighborhood or apartment complex that's what happened that's what's wrong you know I don't think don't rent to them or rent to them evict them because they drug dealers put it on the lease if you deal drugs you can't live here
[speaker002:] yeah yeah yeah most of them too scared to do anything about it
[speaker001:] um-hum that's it
[speaker002:] yeah all right well listen I got to go it's good talking to you
[speaker001:] well alrighty and I thank you bye-bye
[speaker002:] alrighty bye-bye

[speaker001:] okay um I guess if I had to rate it from one to ten I guess I would rate it a five in the aspect that I wouldn't want everybody to have guns and I think there should be limitations of like semiautomatics uh things like that should not be just given out to anybody In fact you know I can't imagine anybody having a semiautomatic for what purpose um so I guess you know being that I come from a hunting family I'd rather have some restrictions put on weapons
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] but yet allow hunting rifles uh things that people would use for sporting type of uh uh activity those would be fine but when you get into um a lot of the more complex weapons I would say yes we need to put restrictions on them
[speaker002:] um that's probably I probably would have to agree with you pretty much all the way I think um
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] I definitely think that there some things shouldn't be limited like like you said rifles and um hunting rifles and probably handguns for people who use them to
[speaker001:] um-hum exactly for for self protection sure
[speaker002:] right and but I think the I think semiautomatic weapons people say they use them because it for sport but I I personally cannot see any use for them other than uh for for for only like people who just like have some sort of crazed
[speaker001:] I can't imagine that yeah um-hum
[speaker002:] you know ambition to use have high powered weapons or something
[speaker001:] to do massive amounts of killing uh yeah
[speaker002:] right and I mean you can only how much do you want
[speaker001:] the only thing I can see is the police having it in a case where somebody is uh uh you know going to kill a massive amount of people or uh somebody that's escaping that's uh very dangerous
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] semiautomatic would allow more rounds to be put out to hopefully catch a person and and uh get him down but um
[speaker002:] right
[speaker001:] you know I I think of my family uh they're very much into sporting and uh you know as far as hunting and also like uh clay pigeons
[speaker002:] right um-hum
[speaker001:] things like that so they have may have some shotguns they may have other types of uh hunting type things but I figured if the if the criminals had to take a hunting gun out to kill somebody more than likely somebody would see it you know what I'm saying versus a
[speaker002:] right yeah
[speaker001:] you know a small handgun um that can be you know put right in your coat pocket and nobody would see it but yet you can't stop people from having you know a handgun in their home
[speaker002:] yeah that's true right
[speaker001:] even if there are small children around there's you know you can't say people with small children can't have guns and people without small children that may have grandchildren you know still have these guns but
[speaker002:] um-hum yeah right
[speaker001:] um I guess I I was always taught number one a gun isn't a toy
[speaker002:] right
[speaker001:] um you know and I don't know if that makes a difference if the parent sits down to them and say this gun can kill you know and don't ever play with it
[speaker002:] um-hum right
[speaker001:] um so I don't know if that makes a difference or what but
[speaker002:] well I think partly uh in that case I think that cases like that it's definitely um I think if you're to say okay we have to get rid of them all because you know they can only they only seem to do bad it it's um it's saying we're too
[speaker001:] um-hum but criminals would get them I mean even if they had to go across borders to get them
[speaker002:] right right and people who people who have them and are responsible with them are are are being punished and people who
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] and they're saying that people you cannot take care of things yourself or like that you're not smart enough to teach your kids how to how to uh
[speaker001:] how to use you know to make sure that guns are put up as something as uh not a toy yeah because we had guns all over our house when we were kids and not that they were laying on the uh couch or anything like that but um
[speaker002:] right right um-hum right
[speaker001:] I never had an interest in them being in the fact that I knew that guns could kill and I had four brothers and never messed with any type of guns
[speaker002:] um-hum right
[speaker001:] and so it was kind of the idea that we knew that a gun could kill and that a gun wasn't a toy
[speaker002:] right
[speaker001:] and of course we were quite young and we went through uh the National Rifle uh Club and so we were taught
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] you know kind of at a a good age ten and eleven and twelve to sit down with a kid and say okay if you gonna learn how to shoot a gun you're going to learn how to do it correctly and you're going to learn how to have safeguards and
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] and know how to protect yourself but yet have this you know training so that kids aren't you know they have to have a certain respect for it
[speaker002:] right well I think I mean we I grew up in a family and and my father had two guns because he used to hunt years ago but
[speaker001:] um-hum sure
[speaker002:] stopped before really before I was old enough to remember but and I knew we had the guns in the house and the the time my father was keeping them just for protection at the time
[speaker001:] um-hum sure yeah
[speaker002:] but we it was never my brothers and sisters nor I never I mean none of us ever thought well let's go look at the gun or let's go get the gun out it was just something you knew was there and the it was your father's and you you that was not something you'd go and play played with at all
[speaker001:] yes yeah
[speaker002:] and I think maybe uh and that's the type of the thing that should be you know stressed
[speaker001:] yeah I think so and and I don't know if the kids nowadays are different than what I I can't explain

[speaker001:] right
[speaker002:] what what changes do you think have taken place in the last generation
[speaker001:] I guess the biggest one is number of women in the work force
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] few are uh basically staying home and being homemakers and raising kids exclusively
[speaker002:] uh-huh yeah I I I grew up in uh sixties and early seventies and uh my mom didn't work at all when I was growing up she didn't start working until I was um well into high school
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] so I I had the advantage of having a mom at home that nowadays kids it's a luxury item for mothers to be home with their kids
[speaker001:] yeah true well mine taught kindergarten but she was always uh I guess her schedule was shorter so she was always uh home
[speaker002:] always home by the time you got home
[speaker001:] yeah yeah that that statistic I guess has been growing every year it's it's something around sixty sixty five percent or so now
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] uh I'm not sure what the future holds for that whether
[speaker002:] it seems like there's it seems like there's a grass roots um effort or whatever going on I I um clean houses part-time and almost all the people that I clean for believe it or not are mothers that don't work
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] um
[speaker001:] that's unusual
[speaker002:] they're all um it's and it's I think it's kind of a new movement it's going back towards you know women have come into the work force in the last twenty thirty years and now they're wanting to go back to the old days where you know women stayed home with the kids you know and try to give the kids quality time
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] and I I think that in the future you're I think you're going to see a lot more women choosing to not work after they have a baby
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] um I think with uh the uh the work force with the the salaries that a lot of a lot of the women that I work for have husbands who are um vice presidents of companies and I think with uh um it seems like it's more the upper-class people
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] um I don't see it as much the like in my situation where I don't I don't have children yet but ideally I would like to be able to stay home with my kids but realistically that's I'm I'm realizing that's probably not going to be possible um for middle-class people to be able to live just on one income
[speaker001:] yeah that is tough yeah we're looking at that now my wife's about six months along
[speaker002:] uh-huh I think it's going to be a luxury item to be able to stay home with your kids
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] you know it's going to kind of kind of go along with the BMW in the driveway and or in the garage or whatever um and the quarter of a million dollar home or whatever
[speaker001:] true yeah I'm surprised that the main people you work for are women that do stay home I would think it would be women that were working full-time
[speaker002:] yeah believe it or not though the all the women that stay home are real busy when they are home um they're real active in volunteer work
[speaker001:] huh uh-huh
[speaker002:] um one of the women is real active with uh muscular dystrophy and uh does a lot of of work with them on a volunteer basis but it's still it's almost like a job but she just doesn't get paid for it
[speaker001:] huh well I guess that's good they got something to keep them active
[speaker002:] yeah when when your wife has her baby is she going to stay home or is she going to go back to work
[speaker001:] yeah we're going to try and have her stay home for as long as possible what do you think
[speaker002:] that that that I would I would like to be able to do that
[speaker001:] yeah we think it's uh that important and I I kind of hope that the trend goes back in that direction I'm a a counselor and a therapist and I work with adolescents and
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] I see some of the problems the kids have when they don't have a real good family structure
[speaker002:] yeah I I see a difference in the generation of even the generation before me
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] uh were you know mom was like um Mrs Cleaver uh you know June Cleaver or whatever where the the attitudes were a lot different um as far as I think the kids back then seemed to be a lot more um there wasn't a lot of the drugs and alcohol and
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] um a lot of the the things that are going on in today's society I think morally um it seems like there was the people people were a lot better back then as far as having higher standards
[speaker001:] true
[speaker002:] huh
[speaker001:] well the husbands' roles are almost nonexistent in family anymore in terms of being the father figure and and with women working so much they're kind of pulled out of it too so kids are raised around their friends and by the media
[speaker002:] yeah yeah that's true and I think I think you're going to see a lot more of that in the future
[speaker001:] that's contributed yeah maybe that's contributed to a lot of the problems that we see all the time so if there was some way for for women to to stay home even if they could work you know there are a lot of jobs that are coming about like in computers at home and those types of things that would
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] at least in some ways bridge the gap
[speaker002:] yeah I think that um in the future um the the family unit as it as it once was known is is going to be nonexistent where do how do what do you think
[speaker001:] about
[speaker002:] uh as far as do do you think there's going to be still a family unit or or do you think that um the trend is going more towards single parenting
[speaker001:] they'll understand them the divorce rate keeps hovering around fifty percent or so and it got higher than that for a while um it's hard to say families are such a strange configuration anymore um I I see a lot of families where you know in the in the back I grew up about the same time you did
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] back in those times we pretty much were taught how to be responsible
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] nowadays it's not the case kids don't kids are bombarded with all kinds of junk and one of the reasons I guess is because there's so much more income in the family with both parents working they get bombarded with junk and they don't have to do anything around the house they never learned to be responsible when the bigger trend called the boomerang kids where they move out for a while and they come back and you got twenty and thirty year olds who are living at home with mom and dad
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] so know you create a bigger bigger family generation after generation but not really on purpose
[speaker002:] yeah yeah
[speaker001:] so it's not not a real functional situation anyway I don't know it's I don't know that that trend's going to change the single parent type families and the blended families as long as we 've got so many other crazy things going on in society
[speaker002:] yeah I I think that eventually the the family unit's just not going to even exist anymore it's it is that like you said the divorce rate is getting so high that I think there's going to be more single parent families than there are um you know two parent families
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] that's pretty sad
[speaker001:] yeah it is I guess unless unless there's a a major swing in the change of what's important to people you know probably keep going downhill and I I don't know we we feel like that that we can make it on one income it it may be tough but we may have to give up some some things
[speaker002:] I I think in the long run though your child will benefit from that it'll make the
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] the strain worthwhile
[speaker001:] yeah I think so too
[speaker002:] well I need to go ahead and and wrap it up it was really nice talking to you
[speaker001:] okay well I've enjoyed it Stephanie
[speaker002:] and uh thanks a lot okay bye bye
[speaker001:] uh-huh bye-bye

[speaker001:] So, uh, what things do you consider an invasion of privacy?
[speaker002:] Ooh, well I don't know. What do you think?
[speaker001:] Oh, I don't know. I had a little bit more time to think about it. I was thinking of, like, uh, [sniffing] I don't know, I was ju-, started to think about all the big, you know, data bases they have with all the information about you on them like the credit reports
[speaker002:] Uh-huh, uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and all those, you know, demographics studies that they do that, [swallowing] um, you know, have, who knows, how much, you know, stuff about all the purchases that you've made and everything kept tract somewhere and [sniffing] I don't know, I don't know how much the stuff actually, what they actually have in there but
[speaker002:] Huh.
[speaker001:] I know they use that, I mean they sell those,
[speaker002:] Well what about, uh, required drug testing, uh, as a, uh, condition of employment?
[speaker001:] [Sniffing] Yeah, that was, that, that was the other one I was thinking of [sniffing]. I think that's, uh, I mean I know drugs [NOISE] are illegal.
[speaker002:] It thing actually. Uh, I, uh, have worked at Texas Instruments.
[speaker001:] [Noise] Huh. Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And, uh, they instituted a drug policy there. Drug testing policy where they randomly would test, uh, employees
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] and actually, to tell you the truth, I really did not think much about it. I, I hadn't, you know, it really didn't relate to me. But there were some things that people brought up like well what happens if they, they get a false positive, you know, what recourse do you have.
[speaker001:] [Talking] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And, [throat clearing] also, uh, uh, this is against the law for the government to do this kind of thing, this kind of big brother activity and yet, uh, a lot of these large corporations such as Texas Instruments, although they don't admit to it, it's actually, oh, a drug testing policy comes about as a result of government pressure.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] So [throat clearing] what that means is, to me, that really it's the government that's requiring this, although they don't actually e-, execute it themselves, it's really the government that. So, in that sense, it, at least, philosophically, it's really borderline legal.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh. Well [talking] I, I think the, I think that, you know, a person's competence should be more determined by, you know, their actions and their behavior and if they're, you know, if they're on some kind of, you know, contol-, controlled substance then, you know, it kinds of takes away from the job of, you know, the supervisor or manager type person, you know, who is able to evaluate them. I think they should be evaluated that way rather than [sniffing] with a, you know, a chemical, you know,
[speaker002:] Well, what about this, uh, AIDS epidemic now? Where you find that, uh, uh, you know, certain people are actually are, are criminal in their disregard for it-,
[speaker001:] [Sniffing] These people that are carriers and don't
[speaker002:] others. Yeah, and
[speaker001:] that don't reveal it?
[speaker002:] and, uh, of course, the ultimate solution is to operate on their brain so that it doesn't,
[speaker001:] [Sniffing].
[speaker002:] it, uh, it destroys their libido.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Yeah, tha-, that would be kind of an extreme.
[speaker002:] Now, uh, you know if they ever,
[speaker001:] I mean I've heard of things like, you know, making them, you know, marking them somehow or, you know, or something like that or, you know, putting them all someplace like in a kind of,
[speaker002:] So what about that as an invasion of privacy?
[speaker001:] Yeah. Wel-, I guess it kind of borders on where, I mean what do you value more. The invasion of, uh, the person's privacy or the possible danger to, you know, other people.
[speaker002:] So really, it i-, gets to balancing, uh, personal freedom against, uh, the general welfare
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] of society.
[speaker001:] I guess that's alwa-, that's been the big role of government, I guess [LAUGHTER]. I mean generally.
[speaker002:] Well, it, it's supposed to have been.
[speaker001:] Yeah [LAUGHTER]. Yeah. Well, that's kind of a difficult one to go into. I mean that, that particular case.
[speaker002:] [Throat clearing] No, it,
[speaker001:] Because I mean, there's a lot of people that, uh, I mean they could require, you know, [swallowing] ob-, obligatory AIDS testing for everyone because I'm, you know, there's a huge part of the population, not a huge part but a, you know
[speaker002:] A growing part.
[speaker001:] the AIDS population I guess that have it, that don't know they do
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] are spreading it. But, again, to require, you know, such a test and jus-, and then to make, make it is to subject them to, to discrimi-, discriminatory practices and other things. I don't know, uh, I don't know how exactly I feel about that.
[speaker002:] Maybe chop their weenies off.

[speaker001:] okay well what do you do on your yard
[speaker002:] well ah typical lawn stuff Saint Augustine ah with a little Bermuda mixed in in some of the sunny areas uh
[speaker001:] um-hum uh-huh
[speaker002:] and really all I do to it is uh in fact I didn't even fertilize it this year I just mowed it and I I mow it uh you know with a mulch mower so the the particles fall down yeah
[speaker001:] comes back in the yard so you don't have anyone do your yard you do it yourself yeah we do too
[speaker002:] I do it myself have a lot of people trying to do it for me but hey I need the exercise so what the heck
[speaker001:] isn't that the truth all flyer's on every door everyday that's right well we um we my husband does the same thing he does the yard and he wants me to learn how to work the lawn mower but I keep putting off learning
[speaker002:] hey you've got the right idea
[speaker001:] that's right but I had recently gone out and planted mums so we had decided to paint the front of the house about three weeks ago and so while my husband was painting I went out and bought about fifty dollars worth of mums over at Calloway's
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] and put out yellow and bronze and they just gorgeous and so then last week my mom comes in town and she says well those are gonna die just the first frost she said you should have done pansies and I went well now you tell me so that first night that on Halloween we went out and covered them with a sheet and they did okay that first night but the second night we were at the movies and didn't do it so I guess I've lost them
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] I haven't gone out to check yet
[speaker002:] yeah I wouldn't don't blame you I wouldn't wanna look at them
[speaker001:] oh listen but um the worst problem we've had here with this grass was about the third year we were here I guess it was about four years ago and we did not know in August to put down the uh whatever it is for grub worms
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] and the next spring I guess in that March every time we would go out and just try to walk on the grass or reach down to pull a weed we'd have big whole patches come up have you ever seen it
[speaker002:] yeah yeah
[speaker001:] what grub worms do and we pulled up almost half of our yard just by raking it it would just come off in the rake down to the dirt so we had to go out and resod the whole thing with squares and wet it and put it down and rope it off everything it took a lot of money and a lot of time so the most careful thing we do on our yard every August is put down that Diazanon
[speaker002:] yeah you you you think that's what it was uh mulch mulch mulch okay well
[speaker001:] oh yeah we found them yeah we found them we dug under there about an inch and you could see them they're real fat old white things and they said they turn into black bugs in the spring
[speaker002:] yeah yeah those kind of brown uh June what we call June bugs and some people call them May beetles and yeah yeah
[speaker001:] yeah but in but in the whole um-hum yeah June bugs is what I'd heard them called so anyhow occasionally I find them in the flower beds they said that every yard has some but it was a preponderance of them that caused our problem
[speaker002:] oh yeah
[speaker001:] so that's the number one thing we do whether we fertilize or anything else just because we got burned so badly before
[speaker002:] yeah well I had some of that problem but mine was freeze it
[speaker001:] oh yeah that too you know two years ago or last Christmas is that what you're talking about yeah um-hum
[speaker002:] yeah yeah and I'm still replacing I'm still replacing that in the back especially under the trees um you know kind of slow and and as you say very expensive
[speaker001:] um-hum yeah
[speaker002:] I caught Wolfe with ah ah one ah one of the sales where they have those big blocks for fifty cents and I I bought about twenty of them and
[speaker001:] oh yeah I bet you did too and put those down in the spring
[speaker002:] uh well I put that you know that was laid that was like
[speaker001:] or the fall yeah because I started to say you can there's different times they say it's okay to do it
[speaker002:] yeah that was like September I think and I had to water it you know gosh
[speaker001:] yeah yeah keep it damp well my out here you know we don't have as many trees in Plano at least the area where we're over by Collin Creek Mall and but a lot of the shrubbery that we have in the front like the pittosporum all died and all those variegated uh things died so we pretty much go with that dwarf yaupon and that yaupon holly and they just live yeah you can you can stand those
[speaker002:] yeah they're pretty tough uh pittosporum is kind of borderline here and usually it'll do pretty well but uh you know every once in a while we get one of these really cold deals and it it zaps it
[speaker001:] um-hum yeah well it's kind of like one of these it's
[speaker002:] oh wax leaf wax leaf ligustrum is the same way
[speaker001:] same way um-hum that they warned me of that one finally and I said you know you need to either read Neil Sperry's book before you shop or get a reputable nursery because a lot of places that would are just trying to sell whatever was pretty out there and we didn't know the difference and every year we learn one more thing we didn't know before like about these mums it's like okay next year I'll do pansies
[speaker002:] yeah your list is growing
[speaker001:] yes and my backyard we had it really nice and then my husband wanted a Labrador puppy and so it was about I guess he's three now so the first summer he was here he dug up all of my
[speaker002:] oh yeah oh gee
[speaker001:] bushes and plants and brought them to the front door and the back door and laid them on the patio so it's like our backyard is just kind of like as long as he won't damage it fine and if he'll if there's anything he'll hurt we just don't put it out there anymore
[speaker002:] um yeah kind of cuts your possibilities for flower beds down
[speaker001:] um-hum very much very much
[speaker002:] I had a I had a small vegetable garden that uh it did pretty well it's it's like on the side the apron of the of the parkway out behind the garage and uh there's our our garages come in from the back you know from the alley
[speaker001:] you did huh uh-huh so do ours yeah
[speaker002:] and uh it's it's that little piece of land over there well I had uh tomatoes and and uh uh peppers
[speaker001:] what did you grow
[speaker002:] and I had had okra and cucumbers by the fence I had cucumbers
[speaker001:] that is amazing
[speaker002:] which which didn't do real well uh they kind of came out looking like gourds
[speaker001:] yeah well put them in a salad though you say well I made it though at least it's mine
[speaker002:] yeah but I had squash I had zucchini and and yellow crook neck squash

[speaker001:] it seems to be a a topic that's gonna probably take about a generation to uh catch on it seems or maybe a generation to two and we may have to do it out of necessity as far as moving that time schedule up but it does seem to be a lot of habits to break I um wasn't raised as a kid on it but my kids are and so they they tended to wanna grab the aluminum cans when that was one of the first things to do and we were doing all right there until uh the price dropped out and they weren't worth anything anymore
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] and we it took us um almost a year to get a garbage sack full we just don't drink that many so as far as at home use uh we'll pick up a six pack every once in a while or for whatever occasion of Dr Pepper or something and and by the time we gathered up enough crushed cans to take it in uh at the time it was still oh about forty or fifty cents a pound and we came out with about a dollar it just really wasn't worth it yeah so they they realized you know well of course to them a dollar was a dollar at four and five years old that wasn't uh that was a big deal but
[speaker002:] and a lot of hassle all year round and cans laying yeah
[speaker001:] we decided it wasn't worth us keeping it and then um TI started keeping up with uh cans there so occasionally I'll bring whatever I've got laying around the car or the like and throw them in there at least it gets back into the system but um as far as a habit at the house uh I haven't started on anything other than just whatever the city wants to pick up have y'all got the individual containers yet
[speaker002:] no I read in the paper this week where maybe I don't know if it was was I guess maybe this week someone may start getting them if the truck that picks them up is outfitted in time
[speaker001:] hm
[speaker002:] but I it it should be starting I would stay probably in the next month if if everything goes that uh I'm not sure all what we're gonna have to do whether we have three separate containers I really don't understand that part on what they've told you to separate everything
[speaker001:] right yeah it seemed like uh if if I recall it's been a long time they're way behind schedule on that particular part of it they were fine on the green big green containers but uh seems like they said they were just gonna have a bin
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] and all sorts different types would go in there and then that they would sort it as as needed it it seemed that there was at the time anyway the thinking was that there was too much not getting sorted properly
[speaker002:] oh well
[speaker001:] and that at at the collection sites where everything's clearly labeled and people that happen to go to that kind of trouble to do it happen to do it pretty well uh those are okay to have the general public doing the sorting but when it comes down to just general purpose trash that all the houses um the success rate of getting it sorted properly seemed to be poor so they felt that having one guy just sit there and run through it real quick was better than
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] than having a household try it but I I don't know that sounds like an awful lot of labor to sort the entire week's worth of trash for a house
[speaker002:] well it'd get messy too
[speaker001:] yeah yeah
[speaker002:] I I I know other places when they recycle they have to like wash out their glass jars and whatnot
[speaker001:] right
[speaker002:] and uh which we're not in the habit of doing I was brought up uh you know long time ago that
[speaker001:] that's true
[speaker002:] they didn't even have cans they had bottles and you'd return them to the the grocery store and you'd get your money back and that that was all well and good and they don't seem still be doing that if they could just eliminate the cans and use glass but
[speaker001:] right
[speaker002:] I guess this day and age they don't
[speaker001:] yeah they don't do that we live next to a set of railroad tracks and it seemed to be a very popular thing for people driving by that highway there by our tracks to throw the bottles at the tracks and try to crash you know break them but
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] uh they weren't that successful so there were a lot of bottles to be returned and we just walk about a half a mile in each direction and gathered up enough to buy whatever we wanted for the day and
[speaker002:] um-hum yeah and they uh people I I think kids don't appreciate maybe the value of money that it's so little that they don't care they can get more somewhere else uh for a good many
[speaker001:] yeah just a little bit of begging will
[speaker002:] right they're the the nickels the dimes or what I suppose it might be quarter and fifty cent pieces in these days that they would get they the kids just don't seem to to care that that much about a small amount of money
[speaker001:] right well I wonder if
[speaker002:] but now we we did buy a can crusher and we are crushing cans and when we buy the soda when it's on sale for ninety nine cents so I would say in the last three years we've probably used a lot more cans than ever before um it was just easier
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] to do that than to open a large liter bottle and then have it go flat
[speaker001:] right yep
[speaker002:] so that's the main reason we're we sort of are into cans at this point rather than the liter bottles
[speaker001:] where do you take your cans
[speaker002:] well as you say it takes a while to build it up since we've had the crusher all summer we I guess we just now maybe have a bag full that we haven't taken oh I think the kids when we were on vacation they said they did take them to a a recycling place probably at one of the libraries

[speaker001:] capital punishment uh I guess out in California has has had a lot of uh a lot of you know discourse in the paper uh apparently uh there's they haven't uh executed anybody since nineteen sixty seven I believe
[speaker002:] um yeah that's that's far back as I can remember well that's before my time actually
[speaker001:] yeah they a well I we were we uh we just started we we lived in Redwood City when we were out there
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] and uh and we found that uh you know it was a very liberal kind of community but uh I I I really feel that the that the law enforcement community uh you know puts these people behind bars and then they they uh uh you know the lawyers these lawyer groups get together and they uh they I think extend beyond the normal uh appeal process uh you know and just drag these this guy uh his his uh ultimate uh demise out for ten or fifteen years uh and I I think that uh that there there's something that has to be changed in the system to to do that I I think capital punishment uh uh laws are probably stringent enough but I think the appeal process is really getting in the way
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] do do you feel as though there should be uh more uh laws or or more uh you might say transgressions that would be enforceable by uh by uh uh capital punishment
[speaker002:] well I think that currently the the way the law stands isn't so much that the laws are enforceable or not it's more they're not enforcing the death penalty itself it's it's to the point where they're saying like here you're you're going on death row but you'll stay there for twenty years and nothing's being done about it um the laws exist and too many times they're frequently upheld in in um
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] in in Appeals Court just because of technicalities and because of maybe small little holes that their defending attorney can find and it's it's really getting out of hanters in most many states
[speaker001:] well the term technicality the the the law enforcement community uh uh you know has to has to separate the difference between somebody who is being set up in which uh griedous acts are done to uh to you know get somebody into a a situation where they're gonna be guilty of of a crime or whether uh and and whether the rights of that individual are been have been you know impugned um but or whether there's just you know a policeman has just made a uh uh you know a a non a non critical error error though be it not the right way to do it but but you know the the merits of the case in terms of you know the guy was a law breaker is being supported now I I'm at at at this juncture I you know I'm I'm not sure you know what constitutes a a technicality you know that that's what all these these hearings are about and that's what all these you know court cases are about I mean our uh our our glorious uh you know mayor here in Washington is six days away from getting out of uh out of uh the can and uh you know he he tried to appeal his conviction uh and you know it didn't work but be that as it may everybody who got enough money will pump the appeal process dry um in in the old days you know and say round about times of Battle of Hastings you know and that villages villages if you were a transgressor they they either you know drove you out in the woods or you became a ward of somebody and he were you were his slave and if he didn't like what you did he killed you and that has that's pretty effective uh you know it's not good for civil rights I guess but it's pretty effective in that you know you've got to get along in the community and if you don't you will perish either by the hand of your your your master or by being pushed out in the woods so I I I mean as as man has gotten more complicated so all of the uh machinations to uh you know protect him from from being uh dumped on by uh civilian authority in in in some in criminal actions especially you know murder cases and that sort of thing
[speaker002:] well it seems like well it it seems as if in the past um typically there have been a lot a lot of cases of people being wrongly tried or wrongly punished and the whole the whole idea behind the current criminal process system is to protect those who actually didn't commit the crimes all be it it seems that we are failing in that in that ultimate goal because there are times when people who who are guilty are getting off um for instance um there's a case a few years back where um someone um someone who's being convicted for was under a trial was going to trial for murder was let off because of a technicality that the officer the arresting officer um did not read the defendant their rights
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] and where as all the evidence was there the witnesses were there the everything everything was conclusively pointing to this individual yet

[speaker001:] Okay. Do you have any children?
[speaker002:] Uh, yes, I have a daughter.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh. I don't any children [LAUGHTER], so I'm going to have difficulty with this topic.
[speaker002:] Oh, okay.
[speaker001:] But, uh, what kinds of things do you and your family do?
[speaker002:] Um, well, we go out and fly kites and we go fishing.
[speaker001:] Um. *slash error should be 'b'
[speaker002:] And we go to movies and we go out to the farm.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh. *slash error should be 'b'
[speaker002:] And, and, uh, she likes to pick flowers and look at birds.
[speaker001:] Um. Then your kind family is probably pretty rare now a days. I don't see a lot of families fishing and doing things like that. That's great.
[speaker002:] Well, I'm divorced, but that's what, [LAUGHTER] when she's with me that's what we do.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] And we color a lot and I read her stories.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh. That's great.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] I think a lot of families now, they probably don't spend enough time together.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] You know, whether their parents are together or divorced they don't spend enough time together and, and I think that contributes to a lot of why society is going downhill right now is because the basic family unit is being destroyed. Just simply because that time isn't spent just doing things like fishing and, uh, because that I think that when you spend a lot of time with each other you communicate a lot. And the communication helps you build on your, uh, helps just, just build your family.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh [pause]. And even, even when I was, when I was, uh, living with her with did stuff then too,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] so, *slash error
[speaker001:] Yeah. That's pretty, to me that's pretty rare.
[speaker002:] Yeah, I know.
[speaker001:] I like that. Whenever I do have children I, I'm going to try as hard as I can to s-, see that we spend a lot of time together, you know, maybe just even, if we just rent a movie and watch it together just to make sure that everybody's not going out and doing and their her own thing all the time.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] You know, that's good sometimes because you need to, you know, get away. But, um, I don't think you, you should spend too much time outside at the detriment of, of losing your fam-, the family unit.
[speaker002:] Yeah, that's right. Because then you never get to know them either.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] They're all grown up and their,
[speaker001:] Yeah. Yeah. And as I understand it, I don't know, I haven't experienced it, but, *slash error
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] you know, kids these days are growing up so much faster. *slash error, should be sv
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] And once they hit like ten or eleven or twelve, you know, you've pretty much lost them [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Yeah, they're out doing stuff by that time.
[speaker001:] Yeah. So, um, do you think that you, do you think that your family is pretty rare in that you do a lot of things or just the relationship between you and your daughter?
[speaker002:] Yeah, I really do because, because I don't see many others and when, whenever we go to the park or something sometimes on the weekdays, we'll see other families.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] But, not usually on the weekends [NOISE] we don't see very many in comparison.
[speaker001:] What do you think is the key to, to just bringing the American family back together? What kinds of things do you think can?
[speaker002:] Well, I think they can turn off the T V for one thing.
[speaker001:] Yeah, that's true.
[speaker002:] And, and go out and do stuff, you know.
[speaker001:] Um. *slash error
[speaker002:] Because she always likes to do things whenever the T V -s off. You know, she'll forget about the T V completely.
[speaker001:] Huh. I think that's the first thing a lot of people do and I know I'm guilty of it. Like I came in from work today first thing I did was turn the TV on.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Because I taped the stories from [LAUGHTER] earlier today.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] And I like to watch 'em but, I think that's that is a big problem. The television and it's, it's too static, you know, it's something that you can do but there's no thinking involved, no motion, you know, and I think, think that's another reason why people are, uh, so health conscious now is because America's becoming really a couch potato society.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] You know, people aren't doing anything just sitting around, you know, no thinking involved and now, I think I think people are trying to get out of that. At least and that, um, there's a lot of [breathing] um, it's becoming really health conscious and that people are you know starting to look out for cholesterol and things like that trying to get out and workout more often and jog and walk and different things like that. And that's probably good, you know, if you get your family involved in exercising and maybe playing tennis or something like that, that also helps. That's also something, you know, family oriented that everyone can do.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Um.
[speaker002:] Yeah. But when was, uh, when she was here last summer we played tennis but she hasn't brought her tennis racquet over lately.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] When,
[speaker001:] How, how old is she?
[speaker002:] she's five.
[speaker001:] Um. Well, she has,
[speaker002:] We, we just been hitting the ball on the ground.
[speaker001:] Yeah, yeah.
[speaker002:] She can't hit it in the air yet, and then we kick the ball. We play like soccer.
[speaker001:] You've still have a lot of time before she gets up in years [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] That's good. That's good.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Um. Okay. Well it was very nice talking to you.
[speaker002:] Nice talking to you.
[speaker001:] Okay.
[speaker002:] Okay. Bye-bye.
[speaker001:] Bye-bye.

[speaker002:] pretty good pretty good so we're talking about drug testing in the work place huh
[speaker001:] drug testing in the work place um I've been tested a few times just before pre drug employment but that's about it I've never had random drug testing
[speaker002:] yeah we have random drug testing at in my business but I've never been uh never had to do it yeah yeah they started that about a year ago and I think it's mostly for the
[speaker001:] oh really what
[speaker002:] the field people that you know drive trucks and heavy machinery that kind of stuff
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] but uh they they have done some testing around our office mostly after lunch looking for people drinking uh drinking beer and stuff at lunch time at least that's
[speaker001:] oh they do with alcohol
[speaker002:] pardon
[speaker001:] they do it with alcohol
[speaker002:] yeah yeah they they they'll check for alcohol
[speaker001:] oh I thought it was just like marijuana or cocaine
[speaker002:] now once once you start doing that stuff you sort of you're sort of stuck into uh checking for the whole the whole thing
[speaker001:] huh that's interesting what type of field of work are you in
[speaker002:] yeah it's a I'm in the oil business yeah
[speaker001:] oh in the oil business okay and you work in the office around
[speaker002:] yeah I work in the office so uh it's pretty pretty safe environment
[speaker001:] uh-huh yeah see I work in the automotive air bag industry where we make the safety bags for the cars and we work around around a lot of explosives
[speaker002:] uh-huh uh-huh well that sounds like kind of an important job to be uh straight on
[speaker001:] yeah so that's you know I'm all for it because the well the type of environment I work in you know working they're working with explosives and so they could blow up the whole well they have safety features with each of the explosives they use but still it can be dangerous
[speaker002:] yeah yeah well I I I agree I think that uh you know under certain circumstances especially when you're working in in high risk uh uh industries where you can really hurt other people that that you need to have that kind of stuff
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] you know if it's as long as it's not abused uh you know random you know as long as it's random and and the individual's rights are uh are protected I don't have that big a problem with it
[speaker001:] now do they fire them or do they
[speaker002:] well see this is it this is where I start having my problems with my company I work for a private company and and the the policy is something like
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] see if I can restate this correctly now if you turn yourself in as having a drug related problem then you're eligible for company counseling
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] but if they catch you if you test positive for a a controlled substance then you get fired
[speaker001:] oh wow
[speaker002:] so it you know it's sort of one of these little catch twenty twos
[speaker001:] huh that's I think our policy is that all right it's probably the same thing I'm not really sure because anyway I don't have the
[speaker002:] yeah really it's one of those things that you read once and then if you if you're not worried about it you just forget about it
[speaker001:] that's right but I know they do have counseling and that they do give you a second chance but I'm not sure if if it's if you get caught or if you turn yourself in
[speaker002:] yeah yeah our yeah our company's a little tougher on the second chance I mean if if they're going to give you the opportunity to turn yourself in then they ought to you know go out of the way I think a little bit more to uh to help you get you help get you rehabilitated to you know to get get back at your job
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] but uh when you're not when you're a private company the rules don't always apply
[speaker001:] uh do you think it works very good with that random do you think it limits the
[speaker002:] well it's it's hard for me to to evaluate it because everybody I work around is in an office environment and you know it's not I guess I haven't haven't run into anybody that's that's had a problem that's that's been a problem
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] uh so I guess you know I guess it works uh much like uh well shoot like any lottery I mean everybody's got an equal chance to get picked
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] so uh I'd rather have that than you know say well this week the A's and B's are going to be in and next week C's and D's are going to come in
[speaker001:] you could time it just right
[speaker002:] yeah right right
[speaker001:] I've met one employee I know when I was working with he had alcohol on his breath and I'm not sure if our policy covers that or not that'd be just as dangerous
[speaker002:] yeah well especially around uh you know equipment machinery and stuff
[speaker001:] huh that's true
[speaker002:] you know I've I've gone out and had a had a beer at lunch time but not to excess in any case
[speaker001:] um-hum do they give any limits on alcohol or is it
[speaker002:] uh I don't remember to tell you the truth I don't think they do um well I they must I mean gee whiz that just shows you how much I've been paying attention because I I really don't know I'll have to go into work tomorrow and ask well you know you can take some of that that testing a little bit too far uh there was a company in Houston that they did uh an unannounced drug sweep of the of their company
[speaker001:] oh uh-huh
[speaker002:] oh it was it was it was an unannounced sweep of of it was not only drugs

[speaker001:] okay I was trying to get my children quiet for a minute well credit cards boy that's an easy topic isn't it
[speaker002:] okay okay is it yes it is it's one we all hold dear and near I'm sure
[speaker001:] oh yes yes I guess I've had some good experience and some bad experience with them
[speaker002:] yeah most of mine's been pretty good although I'm I guess I'm like a lot of other people now I'm trying to to pay off my credit cards and I've done pretty good at it
[speaker001:] uh-huh well I do fairly good until I go in the store and I see something I want you now not need want
[speaker002:] yeah uh-huh there is a big difference
[speaker001:] there's a big difference there
[speaker002:] yeah yeah
[speaker001:] but most of mine that I use is strictly gasoline
[speaker002:] yeah oh yeah I I do that I do that but the rest like I said the rest of them I've been trying to to pay off and uh get back on a cash basis except for gas it's too easy to to run into the gas station
[speaker001:] uh-huh oh it sure is especially when you work out of town and everything that way at least that's for me
[speaker002:] yeah what you uh-huh yeah yeah
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] so
[speaker001:] but yeah I've I've talked to some who's really had some bad experience and kind of knock on wood I haven't yet not bad you know I just I'm just shocked at the end of the month
[speaker002:] yeah well
[speaker001:] to see what damage I have did but
[speaker002:] yeah yeah
[speaker001:] I try to keep it pretty reasonable
[speaker002:] well I've been pretty lucky in that respect I don't charge like I say I've I been trying to to not charge except for emergencies
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] so but I haven't really had any bad problems with credit cards there's you know they have uh wonderful features they're there when you need them you know like in emergencies or whatever
[speaker001:] yeah huh and then they have bad drawbacks too I mean high interest it's like paying twice
[speaker002:] yeah they talk talks with that's true that's true
[speaker001:] yes so but
[speaker002:] I try to I did switch to one uh sponsored by the credit union though that seems to be a pretty low interest
[speaker001:] oh uh-huh
[speaker002:] yeah compared to some of the other ones and you don't have an annual fee there and that helps
[speaker001:] yeah yeah oh yes uh we used to have you know like several but right now we're just more or less at American Express you know and that way we can go ahead and pay it off when it comes in
[speaker002:] yeah uh-huh yeah that's one way to do it because that that forces you to pay for it instead of saying well I'll just pay on it this month and
[speaker001:] yeah pay fifteen yeah yes I know yeah and when you pay fifteen dollars a month it sure takes a long time
[speaker002:] yeah takes a long time that's right and now without the benefits of being able to deduct interest off off your income tax that's you know
[speaker001:] it sure does uh-huh
[speaker002:] of course it's been going down for a number of years but this is the last year you can take anything so
[speaker001:] but yeah uh-huh
[speaker002:] so
[speaker001:] yeah well I've enjoyed talking to you
[speaker002:] well I've enjoyed talking to you
[speaker001:] and maybe we'll get to talk again okay bye-bye
[speaker002:] okay bye-bye

[speaker001:] Uh, with regard to, uh, to jury trials. I, you know, I, I really feel as though, uh, jury trials are, are, uh, whatever system has been, been used historically, in particular jurisdiction, you know, is really the, the only kinds of things that you can use. Because the, the jurisprudence is, you know, based on, on, uh, you know, on accumulated n-, body of law. And if, if you have a situation where you change that body of law, then all of sudden they, they start, they could start going back and digging up all these cases that, uh, that would be handled differently were
[speaker002:] [TV].
[speaker001:] they judged by today's standards. So I, I really don't think it, they can really do much of anything to change it. What do you think? [Noise].
[speaker002:] [Lipsmack] Uh, I, I don't think so. Possibly in the jury selection would be the only,
[speaker001:] [Bird squawk].
[speaker002:] just for example, what we're seeing in California I guess. It makes you wonder, uh, had the jury been a different group of people what would have happened with that outcome. Uh, and th-, and the problems that, that has come [cough] [someone in background] that has come from this decision that that jury came to after all of us witnessed what we did with the video tape beating. Uh [lipsmack] just makes you wonder I guess whether or not they, * Seems as though this should be 2 slash unitsthe first ending after "beating."
[speaker001:] Well won't, well maybe they used a little bit too much force with stuff like that but then
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] then, you know, the defense lawyer addressed each and every one of those blows apparently and, you know, the
[speaker002:] That's, that's bad.
[speaker001:] other two guys sat in the car
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and they didn't get beat up.
[speaker002:] No. It,
[speaker001:] You know. Rodney got beat up because he, he, you know, he pur-, you know, he involved himself in some sub, self-destructive behavior.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] And, uh, uh, [swallowing] just like the burning and looting
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] is self-destruct. Everybody
[speaker002:] Oh, yes.
[speaker001:] says well this is the nineties and they're going to rebuild and it'll be even better. Hey, what do you think, you know, some, some black guy with capital is going to come in and invest in that area?
[speaker002:] That's right.
[speaker001:] With everybody with that mind set. They, they're
[speaker002:] They're only going to suffer.
[speaker001:] they're going to, that whole area is going to be turned into residential ghetto, you know, and you might even be able to, to use it for, for a bombing test site, you know.
[speaker002:] T-, they're only going to suffer. They, they've defeated themselves with, with their looting and violence. Uh, I understand why they were upset by the verdict just because even those of us that aren't black or, uh, don't live there or whatever, we all saw the same thing on the, on the tape and, uh,
[speaker001:] Well e-, everybody is saying this is going to be a new era and we're going to reexamine this thing. Hey, the b-, the average person is going to take a look at that and say, suspicions confirmed. They're a bunch of animals, you know. How can you really deal with an environment where you're going to lose everything. Forty deaths. I mean there are forty people
[speaker002:] I know.
[speaker001:] that are dead as a result of that.
[speaker002:] Yeah, it's really ridiculous.
[speaker001:] And I'm just trying to determine, you know, how you address, how you weigh, you know, Rodney getting, getting the hell beat out of him against, you know, forty deaths.
[speaker002:] Against forty other people being,
[speaker001:] Yeah. And there's no other, I'm not su-, exactly sure, uh, what the circumstances surrounding the deaths. And I'm very upset that the news media has not identified those deaths
[speaker002:] Those deaths.
[speaker001:] and, and pursued it, you know, because I'm interested in the circumstances surrounding this thing.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Is it a looter that got shot by a store owner? I, you know, no tears.
[speaker002:] Or just a by-, an innocent bystander or somebody got actually beat to death or what.
[speaker001:] Yeah. And
[speaker002:] Um.
[speaker001:] and so I, but I,
[speaker002:] [Noise].
[speaker001:] I suspect a number of them. You know, you, you see film of people being pulled out of a car and shot, you know, in, in the street.
[speaker002:] Or, or beaten.
[speaker001:] And, and my reaction is I would have run over fifty people before, rather than stop. And, uh, and there, there would have been just nothing but carnage after, after, after
[speaker002:] Um [very, very faint].
[speaker001:] if I'd been at the wheel. No one
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] would have stopped me.
[speaker002:] That's, that's exactly how I feel too. I wouldn't have, uh, they wouldn't have stopped my car for any, anything had I seen them coming. But I was just wondering since you're, you're in, you're back east, uh, and a little closer to the, the bigger cities than we are in Idaho here.
[speaker001:] Right. I'm inside the beltway.
[speaker002:] Oh.
[speaker001:] You know how capital gang, they always say well inside the beltway, they think thus and so and I say well wait a minute, I'm inside the beltway and I don't think like that.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] I'm a government employee.
[speaker002:] Oh. In what, uh, section of the government do you work?
[speaker001:] I'm with the F B I.
[speaker002:] Oh [LAUGHTER]. Oh, that's interesting [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Yes. An-, and so, uh, uh, and, and the reason I'm doing this whole thing is because Rick,
[speaker002:] [Talking].
[speaker001:] whose another government employee wanted a spe-, segments of my speech,
[speaker002:] [Noise].
[speaker001:] that
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] that were done a year ago and he wanted another collection a year later.
[speaker002:] Oh.
[speaker001:] And so this is my seventh call. A year ago I did eleven calls.
[speaker002:] Oh, I see [TV].
[speaker001:] And so that's, that's why, uh, [swallowing] uh, that's why I'm religiously getting on the phone because I have a unique, you know, I have a unique situation here in that if I don't participate,

[speaker001:] [TV] Hi, Wanet [this is his last name]. How are you?
[speaker002:] I'm doing fine. Where you from?
[speaker001:] I'm from New England. Massachusetts.
[speaker002:] Okay. I'm from Berkeley, California.
[speaker001:] Wow! This is quite a, quite a long distance.
[speaker002:] Yeah, it certainly is.
[speaker001:] Do you have any pets?
[speaker002:] No. Use too. Use to, but [throat clearing] none, none right now.
[speaker001:] How come, uh, you don't have any now? You get tired of them?
[speaker002:] Well, I, I live in an apartment building and, and, uh, and, and, it, it, it's ju-, just not feasible
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] you know. I'd love to have a dog, you know.
[speaker001:] I've got a little doggy, uh, that I've had quite, uh, quite a long time. In fact, she just turned sixteen years old New Year's Eve.
[speaker002:] Ah.
[speaker001:] And, uh [sniffing],
[speaker002:] Is she?
[speaker001:] I beg your pardon?
[speaker002:] What is she?
[speaker001:] She's, uh, uh, uh, a poodle. Uh, a toy poodle, a toy poodle and she's,
[speaker002:] Ah. Ah, my, I got my mom a teacup little mutt,
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] not too long ago.
[speaker001:] This is a little bigger than a teacup.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] And, uh, it's funny how, uh, how I, I, uh, a-, acquired this animal. Uh, when I was, uh, married, my, uh, ex-wife had said that she had a friend who had a little puppy. That she needed, uh, the woman needed someone to baby-sit and, uh, this is what she had told the kids and she even told me that. And after the two week period was up, uh, she then informed me that the woman no longer wanted the little puppy and wanted to know if we wanted to keep it. Well, after you had an animal for a [LAUGHTER] couple of weeks, it's, uh, [LAUGHTER] you become
[speaker002:] Oh, for sure.
[speaker001:] you become attached to it.
[speaker002:] Oh, yeah.
[speaker001:] So, I've had this dog now for, for sixteen years and she's been a lot of company [swallowing]. Uh, she's, uh, however, getting a little old and things are starting to fail. Uh, I, I live alone now and she stays in the house all day while I go to work and, uh, she's been holding herself pretty well. The, uh, up until, you know, recently where she's been having accidents in the house because she either is losing control or she forgets where she is and, uh, I find a little present on the floor [LAUGHTER] sometimes when I come home. But she's, she's usually pretty good.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] [static] Yes, well. My, my mother has one that's, uh, it's, uh, it's, uh, teacup and, uh, it's [whistling] made such a difference for her. But, you know, just, I, e-, e-, you know, the way my mom's presence countenance is, just, just for having a puppy but, you know, having this dog she's had it for, I guess three years now.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Oh, possibly four. But, uh, it was, it, it's it's really made such a difference for her. I really would like to, uh, I'm a disabled person
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] so I'm unable to, to, really take care of a pet and if that weren't so, I would certainly have one. I just, I just, it frustrates me sometimes not being able to have a dog yeah.
[speaker001:] Huh. Well, you might want to get yourself, uh, an animal that doesn't require much attention. Like a cat.
[speaker002:] Oh, yeah. Well, yeah, uh, I, I, I typically am not a cat person.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] I have a friend that, uh, has on occasion, uh brought her cat over for me to keep for, [NOISE] you know, from time to time [swallowing]. And this cat is like no other cat I have ever seen. And, uh, it would sleep on my chest,
[speaker001:] [Throat clearing].
[speaker002:] you know.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] It's just, it's just a great cat, but.
[speaker001:] Well, my, my personal preference is, is a dog. Uh, I don't know that, uh, that I would ever want a cat. Oh, I like cats. I just wouldn't want to own one. Uh
[speaker002:] Well, you don't own cats.
[speaker001:] they're not, uh, they're, they're affectionate but they, yeah I don't know, I can't seem to communicate with a cat like I can with my dog.
[speaker002:] Yeah. You, they, they own you
[speaker001:] Yeah, right [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] or, or, you know,
[speaker001:] [Cough].
[speaker002:] grant you with you their presence, you know.
[speaker001:] Yeah. Right. That, yes, we're supposed to appreciate them. Well, my, my dog when I came home, uh, when I come home in the evenings, my dog greets me at the door. I don't know that a cat would do that, uh [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Yeah. I used to have,
[speaker001:] [Throat clearing].
[speaker002:] a cat that could read me better than any human being in my life.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] I could just walk in the door and she knew whether to, to, to quietly come up to me or to just run and knock me over.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] I mean she really could pick up on my mood
[speaker001:] Yeah, yeah.
[speaker002:] uh, the way I walked in the door. It was, uh, uncanny [NOISE] [sounds like a truck].
[speaker001:] Huh. I, I think, uh, in a way we're able to read each other pretty well because, uh, she knows when I'm upset and I know when she's not feeling good too [sigh]. So.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] I know like when she has an accident, I know she's not doing it on purpose. When
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] when she was younger, she used to do that to get even with me,
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Uh, and, and, you know, some people might not believe that but, but, but, uh, I do [LAUGHTER] [sniffing].
[speaker002:] Sure [talking]. Oh, absolutely.
[speaker001:] Like if I, if I put her in a room all by herself and close the door and leave her there for a few hours, uh, because I was going out. She would, uh, break something or rip up the carpet or do something just to, uh, to, to let me know that she was unhappy with what I did [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Really?
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] That's the way, well, I had that cat that I mentioned, Alfie. One morning, you know, the first thing you do is you get up and you, you, you feed this cat some-, something and, and you make sure that it can get to its litter box. Well,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] for some reason during the night, the door was not quite wide enough for it to get through and, uh, the next morning, uh, when my roommate got up and, and, uh, did not feed it right away, it decided that, that it was going to protest.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] And so it jumped up on my bed and anointed my blanket,
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] for me. Looking, looking at me eye to eye,
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] all the time while it was doing it. All right. Have I got your attention now?
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Oh, yes. Animals have a way of talking [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Alfie did. I tell you if I could have gotten a hold of that cat that day.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] I, I don't know that I'd, uh, that I'd trade my dog in for the world. Uh, it was about two years ago she got sick on me and I took her to the, uh, to the vet's because she wasn't eating and, and, uh, she wasn't able to jump. She, you know, lost all her activity and, uh, she stayed there for one day and the doctor called me up and said, uh, she had a low white cell count and that, uh, she wasn't, she was dying and, uh, suggested that I take her to a working hos-, dog hospital, animal hospital [swallowing]. So I took his suggestion and I, uh, took the, the dog to a hospital. The dog hospital there and they said they'd keep her there for three days. Well, she ended staying there five days at a hundred and something dollars a day because she was in intensive care [LAUGHTER]. It cost me over five hundred dollars.
[speaker002:] Ouch.
[speaker001:] Plus, the, the, uh, the vet sent me a bill for what he did [swallowing] and, uh, then she recouped. She was okay for a couple of years. And then she got sick on me again and I brought her to a different vet this time and I told the vet what medication I had given her and everything [sniffing]. And, uh, he gave me the medication, the same medication that I gave her the last time and she was okay and she's been okay every since. It's been about two years now.
[speaker002:] Huh. Well, that's great, it really is. I, [LAUGHTER] I'm glad that she was able to pull out of it that way and so cheaply the second time.
[speaker001:] Yeah. Well, the, see the problem is if, if the, if someone would have came up to me and said it's going to cost you five hundred dollars to keep your dog alive. What do you want to do? I probably would have had second thoughts.
[speaker002:] Yeah. Of course, you would.
[speaker001:] But what they, well, what they do is, is they say, well it's going to cost, you know, twenty dollars for tests and forty dollars for this and, and, you know, and it creeps up on you. You don't know that, uh, you know [LAUGHTER]. You really, y-, you don't know what it's going to until it's all over.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Uh, to give you an example. My mom had an elderly cat who, uh, whoever evidently got a hold of it and, uh, the cat got sick. So she took the cat to the vet and she had the cat there for two days and then the cat died. So the doctor had called her up and said, uh, your cat died and you owe me this bill, and oh, by the way, do you want me to, to bury the cat [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] So, it cost her three hundred dollars, uh, and she didn't get the cat back. So, yeah, they had to pay for all the medical, uh, bills that the cat ran up plus the burial expenses.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] And, uh, you know, she just brought the cat in because he wasn't feeling good [sniffing]. So that
[speaker002:] Really. Geez.
[speaker001:] that was kind of a surprise [throat clearing] At lea-,
[speaker002:] Yeah. You kind of wonder what really happened.
[speaker001:] Yeah. Well even the, you know, they, they claimed they did the best that they could have have and then the cat, uh, died. So
[speaker002:] My goodness.
[speaker001:] I'm, I'm looking for another cat for them. Uh,
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] I, I've, I've got a little kitten, uh, that's still, uh, just being born right now. So another five or six weeks [inhaling] I'll be bringing the little kitten over to, uh, to my folks.
[speaker002:] Well, that, that, that, that will make their day.
[speaker001:] Yeah. I, I think it will because they're both in their, in their seventies. And, uh, the cat, uh, although it's a little bit of work for them sometimes, it turns, it turns out to be, uh, uh, a pleasant experience for them. Uh, I think they enjoy that.
[speaker002:] Only work initially.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] For cats anyway, you know.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] Well, listen it's been a pleasure talking to you.
[speaker001:] Well, the same here.
[speaker002:] And you take care.
[speaker001:] Okay.
[speaker002:] [Buzzer].
[speaker001:] Bye now.
[speaker002:] [Buzzer] Maybe we'll talk again [buzzer] sometimes [buzzer].
[speaker001:] Okay. What is that sound?
[speaker002:] That's my buzzer at the door [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Oh, okay. I'll let you go.
[speaker002:] Okay.
[speaker001:] Right [TV].
[speaker002:] Thank you [Static].

[speaker001:] Okay. [very faintly] Um,
[speaker002:] Where do you live?
[speaker001:] In Plano.
[speaker002:] In Plano?
[speaker001:] Yes. Where do you live?
[speaker002:] In Dallas.
[speaker001:] Oh, okay [breathing].
[speaker002:] Uh, the air pollution isn't too bad in our area. So, we're very fortunate
[speaker001:] Huh [very faintly].
[speaker002:] but [NOISE] I know in some areas, it's really, it, it really is bad.
[speaker001:] [Lipsmack] Um, I was trying to think, uh, something we were watching the other day and they were doing an overview of Los Angeles, uh, from an area that was up higher and you literally could see the band of smog. That, uh, I've never been out there, but,
[speaker002:] I haven't either.
[speaker001:] [Swallowing] it was, it was quite evident [LAUGHTER] that,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] it was a real brown area and,
[speaker002:] Well, I think it would be terrible to live in an area like that and, unfortunately, I think there are a lot of areas that are, that, that bad.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] Particularly in the areas where there are industries, uh, where they are burning a lot of coal,
[speaker001:] Yes.
[speaker002:] and oil
[speaker001:] Yeah [very faint].
[speaker002:] up, more up north, I guess, uh, I think it's a bigger problem. With the car pollution, anti-pollution devices, I think, uh, air isn't as bad it once was, from the cars, because we certainly have plenty of cars in our area.
[speaker001:] Yes. Well, I know, uh, that's been the concern in Europe. They hadn't, uh, we have friends in Germany and, uh, [swallowing] have family that live near the Black Forest area and [sigh] large areas of the forest are being hurt from the cars because when we, s-, uh, switched to the unleaded gas and, and had the emission control advice, uh, [LAUGHTER], devices required on the cars, uh, that's something that Europe didn't do right away and now they're doing that and I guess it started in the last few years because they have found that in that particular part of the country, that's the only pollution that's been there. It's not an area that is industry but they were losing a lot of, uh, trees and a lot of,
[speaker002:] From acid rain?
[speaker001:] Um, I guess. From, from something that the car was, uh, was giving,
[speaker002:] I think it gives off, uh, in the emissions, it gives off gases which combine up in the atmosphere, uh, and form a, a weak acid.
[speaker001:] Yes, and,
[speaker002:] It just makes the rain fall on the acid side and after a period of time, I think that accumulates in, uh, trees because they take it up through their roots, as well as it landing on the leaves, on surfaces, like you've seen what it's done to buildings even
[speaker001:] Yes.
[speaker002:] where it's really bad.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] [Swallowing] What's interesting, several years ago, I took a course, uh, on, uh, [lipsmack] well, it was actually, it was put on by the power companies and, about the various sources of energy and how much pollution there was, and there wasn't from various kinds of, of energy. And, uh, at that point in time, one person that was a speaker brought up the topic of acid rain and it was kind of pooh-poohed, you know. Oh, you're making a mountain out of a molehill, kind of thing. And it's turned out that, that's been very true, what he was forecasting about the accumulation of, of the pollutants in the air and the acid rain and what it would do to foliage. So, it's kind of interesting the change in perspective from when I took that course. Now, a lot of people are really afraid of nuclear. Uh, I'm not afraid of nuclear, having had that course because of how the nuclear that, uh, they use is not bomb quality, and, we're so strict with all our controls in the United States. The chances of, of an accident are slight, and, it doesn't pollute the air at all. [LAUGHTER] It's safer to be around a nuclear plant then it is to be around a coal plant. Many more deaths have occurred in and dealing with coal plants then ever around nuclear plants. It's kind of funny because people are just petrified, at least some are, at the thought of nuclear.
[speaker001:] Yes.
[speaker002:] So, I don't know. In Europe there's a lot of dependency on nuclear power and they recycle the fuel and then instead of, of, some people are really afraid to recycle the fuel because they're afraid it could become, uh, bomb quality. [sigh] But, that's the only sensible thing to do, is recycle and reuse the fuel and not store it down in the ground. As far as I'm concerned, where it could eventually, perhaps, there's some problem, uh, pollute the groundwater. So, I don't know what the answer is. The best answer, of course, would be solar or, uh, [static] fusion, or something clean [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Yes.
[speaker002:] Well, we've got a problem on the line, [static] don't we.
[speaker001:] Yeah. I, I get that sometimes, um, my line gets some static. I don't know why.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh. But, uh, solar, of course, would be the clean, the cleanest.
[speaker001:] Well, I know it's, um,
[speaker002:] [Static].
[speaker001:] we did have a solar water heater when we lived in Houston and, uh, oddly enough I thought our part of the country was ideal.
[speaker002:] I can't hear you at all for all this static.
[speaker001:] Oh. [throat clearing] [NOISE] I don't know what to, [LAUGHTER] usually it's the other phone I have trouble with. It must just,
[speaker002:] [Static].
[speaker001:] be on the line. Can you hear me?
[speaker002:] Now I can again.
[speaker001:] Okay.
[speaker002:] [Static].
[speaker001:] I don't know what, uh, I, I don't know what the problem is but, uh, when we lived in Houston we had a solar water heater and
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] we had thought this part of the country would be ideal for [NOISE] solar homes and solar energy and we have enough clouds that, uh, there are other areas that would be better suited. That surprised me because I think,
[speaker002:] [Static].
[speaker001:] we have a tremendous amount of, um, sunny days.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] And, and it, yes, it can be used and it can help but, uh, that was a problem that they were still working on. But,
[speaker002:] Oh yeah. It, it's still got a long way to go.
[speaker001:] Well I,
[speaker002:] It's just, you know, a possible solution
[speaker001:] Yes.
[speaker002:] in the future, I think, maybe to help in some ways. It may not in all ways. Maybe they'll come up with fusion. [Lipsmack] You know, con-, be able to control it. I don't know how long that'll take, but, [LAUGHTER] one of these days, because that's perfectly clean.
[speaker001:] Yes.
[speaker002:] It's just we can't control it. Right now it takes more energy to cause fusion to occur then you get out, so, it isn't, not at all, and you can't control it unless you gotten a huge electromagnetic field, so that's not going to work. At least not now. But, uh, [static] who knows what the future will hold. Uh, as far as energy goes, I, I think, [sigh] with solving some of the energy, future energy problems, we'll probably solve some of the pollution problems as well.
[speaker001:] Uh, I hope so [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] I do to. [LAUGHTER] I like to be optimistic, I don't like to be pessimistic [LAUGHTER] about these things.
[speaker001:] Well, I do think, um, I mean, you've already mentioned several things, I think, uh, just the change in attitude and the fact that more people are aware there is a problem and more people are interested in, uh,
[speaker002:] We have one earth,
[speaker001:] Yes [very faint].
[speaker002:] to live on and we got to take care of it.
[speaker001:] Yes. Well,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and, and for the future generations, too. Uh,
[speaker002:] I've noticed students are, are much more, you know, young, young people are much more receptive to ideas about the environment
[speaker001:] Yes.
[speaker002:] and protecting the earth. And so, if we can raise it, uh, you know, generations with those concerns, we'll solve a lot of our problems. I'm afraid, I know I was part of the me generation where they didn't, so many of them didn't, people didn't care. You know, it's whatever, you know, recycle, well, if it's a problem, forget that. Uh, not throw the trash out the car window and leave it in the car and then throw it away? How horrible, [LAUGHTER] you know.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Now, I've always done those kinds of things because I just didn't like messes, and [voices fade off]...

[speaker002:] okay so what kind of luck you been having with buying and returning gifts products
[speaker001:] uh not too bad really um I had a razor that I got for Christmas that I just I really didn't want it but I got it anyway and uh it was a Braun and they were real good about taking it back it wasn't a problem at all so uh I was able to get that back pretty easily
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] but uh I don't know I really haven't returned a whole lot lately have you
[speaker002:] I haven't had to it's uh the every so often I mean I I I'm almost pushing it myself maybe I'll buy a shirt from GI Joe's and it shrinks too much and say well I should have known better I mean I bought it from GI Joe's and it was probably made in China by slaves
[speaker001:] um right
[speaker002:] but uh they uh most of the time pretty careful shopping anyway I get pretty good stuff I think that uh aside from the fact all markets being internationalized and if you want to buy American it takes real extra work to find
[speaker001:] yeah right like exactly I was reading
[speaker002:] and it's probably a Japanese or a Burmese company owning and hiring people in the US
[speaker001:] right I was reading something in uh Consumer Reports tonight about that as a matter of fact they were talking about cars uh the car issue just came out and about how yeah you'd like to buy an American car maybe but uh you know the transmission may be made in Japan or whatever
[speaker002:] uh-huh yeah
[speaker001:] um like I've got an eighty six Ford Ranger and and I know for a fact that the transmission is made by Mitsubishi you know so it's like what are you going to do you know
[speaker002:] huh yeah really
[speaker001:] but uh that's the way it is I don't know I I personally feel that uh uh if the Japanese cars are better and Americans buy them you know that's the way it goes and you know people manufacturers American manufacturers should get a clue and you know they should start making quality products and
[speaker002:] yeah I think they're beginning to the the days of don't buy a car made on a Monday or a Friday are pretty much going away and
[speaker001:] that's what I thought too until I saw the Consumer Reports issue uh they've got all the American well all the cars all the cars rated you know and uh
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] essentially I haven't I don't see much of a trend I mean just like every other time that you look at it the Honda Accords and the Civics are right up there there's nothing wrong with them uh and the same thing with most of the other Japanese cars but then again you look at a Ford or especially a Chevy and they're pieces of junk you know
[speaker002:] oh know still at it hey
[speaker001:] yeah that's ninety that's eighty six through ninety one but uh I don't know maybe maybe they're getting better maybe they're starting to get a clue uh
[speaker002:] wow well they got a three year lead time it probably won't start really showing up until ninety four or so
[speaker001:] yeah that's just it technology that that comes in right now is is probably not going to be implemented implemented until you know quite a few years down the road but uh
[speaker002:] hm the computer industry's where it's really dynamic especially for the consumer
[speaker001:] oh yeah because technology is so uh you know volatile and changing all the time uh
[speaker002:] and can you think of any other industry where in software they uh if the product is upgraded and a better version is put out you'll get a free version in the mail it's like here
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] or uh maybe they say well you we know you paid five hundred bucks for this program so send us twenty and we'll give you a really great upgrade
[speaker001:] yeah it uh they they keep up good with it pretty quickly and that's that's a real good thing I guess
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] um I don't know
[speaker002:] and the hardware well I mean all the chips that make up the hardware are a commodity and the Macintosh is about the only one that's going it's right forcing IBM and the rest of the DOS world to follow along
[speaker001:] yeah right they're kind of the leaders right now you know I used to see all those commercials for Windows you know and you're like oh gee they're reselling a Macintosh under a different name
[speaker002:] really why don't they just say almost a Mac for half the price they could sell more if they were honest
[speaker001:] yeah you know almost exactly almost is the key word there too you know because I I really I've used both and I really don't see an advantage of Windows at all uh
[speaker002:] yeah it it's only an advantage for people who had to use pure DOS
[speaker001:] yeah yeah that's just it
[speaker002:] I mean that's their client base
[speaker001:] but uh I don't know I'm really I've gotten a little bit out of the the personal computer business just because I don't have one at home I I do use a Mac at work but uh
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] uh I really don't don't do much with it at home but uh
[speaker002:] Apple's sort of making a and they're ones were growling consumer uh need to worry about the Mac they're getting like if you bought a power book straight off a lot of them had to go back they issued a recall because of improper shielding or possibly other problems with the floppy drive
[speaker001:] right uh-huh yeah you sound like you must uh work in the computer business
[speaker002:] yeah I have one I do desktop publishing at work and I have a machine at home and I belong to the user's group and I I've been a Mac fanatic since they came out
[speaker001:] yeah all right
[speaker002:] but uh technically I'm not actually in the industry I don't work for a computer company I'm an abuser
[speaker001:] no well that's that's all right
[speaker002:] but it's sort of like surfing on the wave of future shock to you know keep up with the changes as they happen
[speaker001:] yeah that's true something that I find uncomfortable is you know you you want to buy something say you want to buy a personal computer and you got to think about what kind of memory you want to get and what kind of technology that you want to go for you know let let's take the example of a modem for you know
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] okay what what what baud rate do you get well you know it used to be that you get a twelve hundred baud

[speaker001:] okay I'll let you go ahead
[speaker002:] okay I uh I have five children all together
[speaker001:] oh uh-huh
[speaker002:] uh my oldest two are already out and about in the world and I uh have a set of twins that are fourteen and uh my youngest is twelve
[speaker001:] oh that's great I always thought it'd be great to have twins
[speaker002:] uh yeah if you like doing everything twice
[speaker001:] well yeah
[speaker002:] uh at any rate um my first two children uh I didn't spend a whole lot of time with them
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] um and you know was a a problem with having five children needing to work a uh full-time job that was more than a full-time job I worked about fifty one hours a week because I worked every worked eleven hours every Sunday
[speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh uh-huh
[speaker002:] and uh so I didn't get to spend as much time with them as I as I should have as I really wanted to
[speaker001:] your first ones you mean it was this way
[speaker002:] yeah the yeah the family well it was with all of them but it was uh more an impact I think on the oldest two
[speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh
[speaker002:] because um oh about the time I got out of working that long hours was when the uh when the twins were about three years old and uh they never you know I don't think they noticed I wasn't around that much you know with all the children around the house it's kind of hard to notice that dad isn't around very much um
[speaker001:] oh right
[speaker002:] so what I've tried to do uh now that I've uh finally went back to school and got my degree when I was thirty years old and uh so
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] then I came out and was making as much money forty hours a week as I did fifty one hours a week so I've tried to spend more time with uh the children since then um what I'm currently doing is uh taking a lot of time um
[speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh
[speaker002:] helping the kids more with their homework in the evenings um we just started a thing where every other week we go to uh movies there's a movie theater that offers dollar movies on Wednesday nights
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] and so every couple of weeks we will go to the movies because that's how often they change the movies and
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] it's working out pretty well um we're spending more time together I feel like I'm a lot closer to the three that are still living at home than I ever was to the two that were living there before um
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] and in fact I found that I'm a lot closer with uh I have one son who's gone and I don't even know where he's at um he's taken off for parts unknown but uh yeah and and uh my
[speaker001:] huh that's difficult yeah
[speaker002:] daughter is um has moved out of the house her and I get along a lot better now that she's moved out of the house
[speaker001:] uh-huh it happens that way
[speaker002:] and uh so it's it's it's it's been difficult to try to find the time and I think it's important that we do because um I notice that uh when I had spent two years down in Dallas down there they all have a uh a me kind of attitude
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] and I noticed parents not spending time with their children and and going out and doing things and you know I knew like the kids next door were all into cocaine and
[speaker001:] uh-huh um uh-huh
[speaker002:] you know it just you know I saw the family falling apart down there
[speaker001:] Texas is much worst for the drugs I mean it was bad enough every place else but drugs is in Texas are extremely bad
[speaker002:] yeah and so I think it's kind of important that I that I you know nurture the relationship I have with my children now and I'm doing my best to keep that up
[speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh well that's all you can do
[speaker002:] yeah what's your been your experience
[speaker001:] well I I was going to ask too does your wife work
[speaker002:] um she didn't up until the last oh six months
[speaker001:] uh-huh she just recently started working then
[speaker002:] uh she just recently started working uh she worked a job until we moved to our new house and uh she quit that job because it was too inconvenient and uh she starts a new job tomorrow which should take her out of the house about four days a week
[speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh huh oh uh-huh uh-huh so that sounds great well uh we also have five children
[speaker002:] huh
[speaker001:] and but ours are all out of the nest so uh as when they were growing up I probably we had a lot of similar things like like you had you know having the time when you have younger ones to take care of you maybe sometimes do not take as much time for the older ones but uh we were we're very active of course at church and uh Boy Scouting and Girl Scouts Four H
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] uh and those activities helped a lot in giving us things to do with the children
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] and uh we try to take a vacation with them every year camping of some sort something that wasn't expensive and uh our youngest is uh expecting her first baby so they're they're all out and on their own they're and we have one to get married yet and they'll all be married uh and they're they're all doing pretty good they uh two lives in Pittsburgh you probably don't know where that is
[speaker002:] certainly do
[speaker001:] okay two of our children live there uh one I like I said lives near Maryland in in around Maryland DC he works right on the border of DC
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] and one lives in Connecticut and our baby lives just a mile over the hill so we'll get to see her a little more than uh what we do the other ones
[speaker002:] yeah that sounds great I've I've noticed uh another thing um when I was younger my father was always working and
[speaker001:] uh-huh well they have to
[speaker002:] yeah and uh you know he uh he worked a full-time job and a part-time job and I never saw him so I didn't have much of a role model to go by
[speaker001:] yeah uh-huh uh-huh to go to follow uh-huh
[speaker002:] you know to learn how to be a a father and a parent
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] and that kind of thing because I I can't ever remember playing ball with my dad or catch with my dad or doing anything with my dad
[speaker001:] yeah uh-huh and that does make a big difference
[speaker002:] yeah and it if you don't have I don't I it's my feeling that if you don't have a role model to follow then it's kind of tough you know everybody's not Father Knows Best
[speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh uh-huh that's that's well none of us are let's face it you know we're not none of us like they portray portray it on those shows I mean life's much more difficult than that
[speaker002:] yeah but yeah yeah yeah I mean the the the capability to uh create children doesn't necessarily mean you have the uh the mental capacity to raise them and
[speaker001:] and uh right right now our daughter our well she's our second oldest she has she's the only that other one that has children she has two boys and she works full time and I have mixed feelings about that she's able to do that and I don't know if she'd be happy to stay at home but yet on the other hand I I've got the mixed feelings that I think you should be at home with your children I'm kind of old fashioned I guess that way but they seem to they seem to give uh quality time
[speaker002:] yes
[speaker001:] to those children when they are together and and so it seems it seems for them that it works out all right so I don't know I I don't think I ever would have had what it would take to work full time and raise a family I
[speaker002:] yes it's it's not easy I've uh you know I've helped out extremely
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] uh well I can't say that but I've helped out as best I could at home and uh you as you know with five children it takes a lot of work
[speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh yes it does it it yeah
[speaker002:] even if even if someone's home all the time there's still a lot of things that have to be done
[speaker001:] yeah what line of work are you in now since you went to school and
[speaker002:] uh well now I work for Texas Instruments so so I'm in computers
[speaker001:] oh okay okay a lot of the people I've that's called I've talked to work for uh for the same
[speaker002:] yeah and so I've uh prior to that I uh I worked in a food store
[speaker001:] uh uh-huh
[speaker002:] and uh you know work
[speaker001:] which your income would be a lot better now
[speaker002:] uh right
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] yeah it uh it was uh it was a a smart move to make um I was more intelligent than the position I was holding
[speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh right
[speaker002:] and uh it was
[speaker001:] and it's kind of a waste of a person
[speaker002:] yes I I felt that it certainly was I mean I was smarter than most of the people that I was working for and uh you know every time something new came up I was explaining it to them and uh I had
[speaker001:] you know uh-huh uh-huh uh-huh uh-huh and you you recognized this and was able to you know do something about it
[speaker002:] yeah I uh yeah I uh started back to school in fact I was going to school while I was working fifty one hours a week and that's why I you know if you're working if you're taking twelve credits at night and you're working fifty one hours a week there's not much time left to spend with
[speaker001:] uh-huh well it puts a strain on everybody your wife and your family
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] and the only thing you can remember is to try and stay together as much as you can because it's very easy to uh become go your own direction when you're so when you're working so hard and going to school too
[speaker002:] yeah yeah well it it all paid off um so uh you know I got my degree and got the better paying job and
[speaker001:] well that's wonderful uh-huh
[speaker002:] and uh you know we I think as a family we're a lot better off
[speaker001:] uh-huh it sounds to me like uh you're doing well my husband's retired so uh he's been retired for three years now yeah that's quite a change
[speaker002:] uh-huh  yeah well my goal is to try to retire by the time I'm fifty five
[speaker001:] oh well he made it at fifty it was a magic number for him and and uh he went at fifty and he still works part time at other thing you know
[speaker002:] great
[speaker001:] same job as he was doing only he's retired and doing it independently but uh
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] nevertheless retired
[speaker002:] well I'm

[speaker001:] uh with regard to uh to jury trials I you know I I really feel as though uh jury trials are are uh whatever system has been been used historically in particular jurisdiction you know is really the the only kinds of things that you can use because the the jurisprudence is you know based on on uh you know on accumulated body of law and if if you have a situation where you change that body of law then all of sudden they they start they could start going back and digging up all these cases that uh that would be handled differently were they judged by today's standards so I I really don't think it they they can really do much of anything to change it what do you think
[speaker002:] um I I don't think so possibly in the jury selection would be the only just for example what we're seeing in California I guess yeah it makes you wonder um had the jury been a different group of people what would've happened with that outcome um and and the problems that that has come that has come from this decision that that jury came to after all of us witnessed what we did with the video tape beating um just makes you wonder I guess whether or not they
[speaker001:] well won't well maybe they used a little bit too much force with stuff like that but then then you know the defense lawyer addressed each and every one of those blows apparently
[speaker002:] um-hum that's that
[speaker001:] and you know the other two guys sat in the car
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] and they didn't get beat up
[speaker002:] no
[speaker001:] you know Rodney got beat up because he he you know he purposes you know he involved himself in some sub self-destructive behavior
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] and uh um just like the burning and looting is self-destruct everybody says well this is the nineties and they're gonna rebuild and it'll be even better
[speaker002:] uh-huh oh yes
[speaker001:] hey what do you think you know some some black guy with capital is gonna come in and invest in that area
[speaker002:] uh that's right
[speaker001:] with everybody with that mindset they they're they're gonna that whole area is gonna be turned into residential ghetto you know and and you might even be able to to use it for for a bombing test site you know
[speaker002:] they're only gonna suffer yeah they're only gonna suffer they they've defeated themselves with with their looting and violence um I understand why they were upset by the verdict just because even those of us that aren't black or uh don't live there or whatever we all saw the same thing on the on the tape and um
[speaker001:] well everybody's everybody's saying this is gonna be a new era we're gonna reexamine this thing hey the bunch the average person is gonna take a look at that and say suspicions confirmed they're a bunch of animals you know how can you really deal with an environment where you're gonna lose everything forty deaths I mean there are forty people that are dead as a result of that
[speaker002:] I know that's really ridiculous
[speaker001:] and I'm just trying to determine you know how you address and how you weigh you know Rodney getting getting the the hell beat out of him against you know forty deaths
[speaker002:] against forty other people being
[speaker001:] yeah and there's no other I I'm not sure exactly sure uh what the circumstances surrounding the deaths and I'm very upset that the news media has not identified those deaths and and pursued it you know because I'm interested in the circumstances surrounding this thing
[speaker002:] those deaths um-hum
[speaker001:] is it a looter that got shot by a store owner
[speaker002:] or just a bystander an innocent bystander or somebody got actually beat to death or what um
[speaker001:] I you know no tears yeah and and so I but I I suspect a number of them you know you you see film of people being pulled out of a car and shot you know in in the street
[speaker002:] it uh or or beaten
[speaker001:] and and my reaction is I would've run over fifty people before rather than stop and uh and there there would've been just uh nothing but carnage after after if I'd been at the wheel no one would've stopped me
[speaker002:] right that's that's exactly how I feel too I wouldn't have uh they wouldn't have stopped my car for any anything had I seen them coming but I was just wondering since you were you're in you're back east um and a little closer to the the bigger cities probably than we are in Idaho here
[speaker001:] right I'm inside the beltway
[speaker002:] oh
[speaker001:] you know how capital gang they always say well inside the beltway they think thus and so and I say well wait a minute I'm inside the beltway and I don't think like that
[speaker002:] um-hum oh in what uh section of the government do you work
[speaker001:] I'm a government employee I'm with the FBI
[speaker002:] oh oh that's interesting
[speaker001:] yes and and so um uh and and the reason I'm doing this whole thing is because you know Rick who is another government employee wanted a speech segments of my speech that uh were done a year ago and he wanted another collection a year later
[speaker002:] uh-huh oh
[speaker001:] and so this is my seventh call a year ago I did eleven calls
[speaker002:] oh I see
[speaker001:] and so that's that's why uh uh that's that's why I'm religiously getting on the phone because I have a unique you know I have a unique situation here in that if I don't participate
[speaker002:] um-hum

[speaker001:] All right.
[speaker002:] [Talking] [people in background] Yes, I think we're terribly taxed. I, I think the Republicans have taxed us just as much as the Democrats, and I don't think there's a change between one party than the other. Uh, I think we get a lot back, but not as much as we should.
[speaker001:] Uh, I guess what I feel about it is that it's so mismanaged that it, there's got to be something. When, when we pay so much for the, for the debt, instead of using the money for where
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] it ought to go, it, it's just, it's ridiculous. What kills me is when they had a chance to, to, uh, put into ac-, action the, the g-, the Glen-, Rub-, what is it, uh, the act where they had to cut everything across the board
[speaker002:] The Gramm, the Gramm Rudman Act. Yeah.
[speaker001:] they kept doing, they kept putting off doing that. Why did they do that? That's exactly what they needed to do to get their act together.
[speaker002:] Yeah, well I think they spend too much. They, they spend too much on themselves, too, the, the,
[speaker001:] Oh, yeah, I think so too.
[speaker002:] A lot of the, the taxes gets back to the members of the Congress and everything all running for twenty years, rather than.
[speaker001:] Yeah, well. Things like mailings. They don't use any kind of restraint on some of these things. They just think once they get there that they can do just anything. No, they don't, they don't try to, uh
[speaker002:] No, you're right.
[speaker001:] to conserve. And of course, here at home, we end up conserving and conserving and, I mean, when I don't have money, I don't buy something.
[speaker002:] Yeah, no I think, uh, it is the Congress and them just don't have any interest in saving us money, uh,
[speaker001:] They sure don't seem to.
[speaker002:] The national debt is terrible. Uh,
[speaker001:] There are a couple of things I think we need to really work for, and I don't know quite how to do it. But I think we need to have the one line, uh, uh, veto so that they don't have to spend so much time doing everything. If it's a good idea
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] it can be done again.
[speaker002:] Oh, yeah.
[speaker001:] You know, and if it's not, so what. At least you haven't thrown out all the work they've done for months and months and months and months.
[speaker002:] I saw one on TWENTY TWENTY about a month ago I guess, whereas one, I think that he was a Senator from Pennsylvania or something like that. Maybe it was, uh, Connecticut, I'm not sure, one of the small states up there, where he had a bill through for another, uh, a drug agency that would be located there, and he was the only one that wanted it. Was going to cost millions of dollars. The drug agency didn't want it, and he was going to build it in his home town and they were going to hire a lot of people,
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] and it was ridiculous, you know, the whole thing [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Yeah, this is, that's right.
[speaker002:] And, and, you know, they asked him about it. Do you really need this? This is going to cost a lot of money. Oh yes we need it. But do you know that the drug agency doesn't want this?
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] And they do things that are, you know, just like the, uh,
[speaker001:] Yeah, that's just an awful lot of that kind of thing going on.
[speaker002:] Yeah that.
[speaker001:] And the trouble is, you don't, you have so little input about it. You don't know
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] enough to know what, what to do about some of this stuff.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] I,
[speaker002:] They're supposed to do what we say, but they do what they, they want to do with it.
[speaker001:] Yeah, that's right. The other thing about is I think, uh, limiting their time in office would be good. I, I just
[speaker002:] Absolutely, absolutely.
[speaker001:] can't believe there aren't other people out there that could do just as well as what we've got.
[speaker002:] We need to get that through. We, we have said that, I've said it several times on different subjects about the government that two yea-, two terms is enough for all of them.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] Uh, whether you're mayor, all the way up, city council, the works, I think. Certainly President, that, uh, two terms is plenty.
[speaker001:] Yeah. I think that's right.
[speaker002:] And then we get these professionals out of there, and they have to learn how to earn a living again themselves, you know, rather than
[speaker001:] Yeah, wouldn't that be too bad [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] living off of us.
[speaker001:] Well, that's right. I think, I don't know, I think, uh, people in general, the, the, the idea of what you need to, to exist is so outrageous that it's not
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] hardly. You know, it starts at the courts, it starts everywhere
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] until we can't, we've just lost control of, of any kind of perspective about what is acceptable and what is not acceptable, you know.
[speaker002:] Well, it's so much money and you can't even add it up, you know,
[speaker001:] No, you can't even,
[speaker002:] that's why they think,
[speaker001:] can't even conceive of what they're talking about.
[speaker002:] Yeah, when you talk about the trillions of dollars
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] on this and that. Our national
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] debt in the trillions of dollars, you know.
[speaker001:] I mean it jus-, and, and you just, the other thing is, it's, it's all very well to give money to help people, other people, and I think we need to do that. But there are, they need to put more limits on them. They need to restrain
[speaker002:] Foreign aid, yeah.
[speaker001:] about what they do.
[speaker002:] Foreign aid means to go down to almost zero unless it's absolutely
[speaker001:] Yeah [very faintly].
[speaker002:] necessary. They, they've given that away for fifty years.
[speaker001:] I, I, you know, I think that's probably, un-, unless we can afford it, if we pay off the debts then we can give it to people again.
[speaker002:] I agree, I agree.
[speaker001:] You know, I don't really mind helping people, but you, you need to get rid of this thing that's, that's just, uh, eating us up
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] you know, and get things on a, on an even, if it were, if it were a family, we'd be up before the, the magistrate [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] for, for doing all these wicked things, you know, but the government does it, and it's all right.
[speaker002:] Yeah, I, I know we're taxed to death on every, every thing. I don't know what's the best way to do it, but, uh, they don't even talk about that. They just raise it. They don't even consider it, like you saying
[speaker001:] Yeah, that's true.
[speaker002:] to cut something back, you know.
[speaker001:] [Lipsmack] Well, sounds like.
[speaker002:] They are at least doing something now, with the, the military, you know, they're cutting some of that, but of course, now, you know T I, you know that's hurting us but although,
[speaker001:] Yeah, it's good to see them doing some things there anyway.
[speaker002:] But T I has gotten a lot of good contracts from the war and everything else. And if they'll get a lot of programs in the future because of their exotic, uh
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] weapon systems. But, uh, that's the only good that I've seen Congress do, you know, and everybody
[speaker001:] Well.
[speaker002:] and all the Congressmen and the President and everybody, uh,
[speaker001:] I think we have to accept the fact that whatever happens, we're going to have to bite the bullet. And we're all going to have to do it. I, it just isn't fair, though, that when this happens in some places, it needs to all come off everywhere.
[speaker002:] Yeah, yeah.
[speaker001:] That's why I thought, well, you know, this is the time. They need to put that into act-, into action and show they mean business. That they've got to cut, they've got to cut costs.
[speaker002:] Yeah. The only taxes I think that are well spent, well not the only, but, uh, I think the, now I, I don't understand the present school thing, but, uh, I have two daughters, one's in college already, and one's about to be in high school. But uh, I think that paying for school, [NOISE] schools is the, schools is the only answer really to get rid of crime. And so I don't mind paying for school
[speaker001:] Yeah, I think that's right.
[speaker002:] taxes even though my kids will be out of it, you know.
[speaker001:] [Breathing] Well, I don't, I don't really mind paying taxes for, for positive things that are helps, like roads and
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] making sure that, uh, that water is safe, and some of these things. But, um, you know, it, you just feel like it's out of control. You feel like
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] they do not have control of it.
[speaker002:] The spending is out of control.
[speaker001:] And that, and so then it just aggravates you, you know, you think, I could spend my money, I could help the poor people better by myself than they're doing.
[speaker002:] Yeah, oh, I agree with you.
[speaker001:] So it's,
[speaker002:] I, I think that's a wide open subject
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] what you said. People need to take a stand. I think the people will here shortly, uh.
[speaker001:] Well, I think that's right. If they don't do, if they don't, if they don't pull it in and start doing something, I think they're really going to have to I think.
[speaker002:] I think the next time we have an election we need to try to get some of the ones that have been there forever out, too, that, what they did last election, and, uh, ninety some odd percent of the same old boys got back in, you know, so we need to try to get people to two terms so they respect our wishes, you know. They're supposed to represent us. That's what they're called
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] but they don't.
[speaker001:] Yeah [breathing].
[speaker002:] May, may, may, maybe we can change and get us rid of some of those guys that are in there, guys and gals whatever they are.
[speaker001:] Yeah, in some ways we're awful lucky I guess. There a lot of, lot of places where it's worse than it is here. But
[speaker002:] I know, but it.
[speaker001:] still, you don't want it to get that bad, good heavens.
[speaker002:] No, that's right, you don't want to,
[speaker001:] No,
[speaker002:] you want it to stay as good as it possibly can be.
[speaker001:] we need to get, try to get hold of it and, and have it be, things be honest and, I guess, in the fact I don't really mind paying taxes. But I would just like to know that they're not being foolishly spent. That they're doing something that's positive for
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] for somebody. I don't really feel like, uh, I don't really feel like I use taxes very much [LAUGHTER]. I don't know maybe
[speaker002:] Yeah, that's, you're right.
[speaker001:] I do more than I, I guess I do. I use them in the, in roads and lot of things, but, uh.
[speaker002:] Well I think one of the good ones in the metroplex, uh, in the last say twenty-five years or so, maybe longer, they've built all these dams. You know, the Corps of Engineers have, uh, soon as they finish a lake, they'll go at, get another one. And that we haven't had, we've had droughts here in long summers
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] we've had good water supply, and that's due to the Corps of Engineers building, looking years ahead and building all these reservoirs for us, you know.
[speaker001:] Yeah, they've done some good things. The state actually did some good, good work on that, in that a couple of years ago.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Uh, Sam Johnson came out and talked to us about that
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] about what they had done. And they, they really had done some good, some good work.
[speaker002:] Yeah, I think anything for water supply like that.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] California should do more of that too.
[speaker001:] Yeah, there are a lot of p-, places where they're in real trouble, and
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] and I think it would be easy enough to be in trouble here too, if they don't take, if they don't take that early stand.
[speaker002:] Right. They just finished Joe Poole Lake over here, and they need to start another one. I think every time they finish one they ought to just have
[speaker001:] Yeah
[speaker002:] another one in line. The water's critical.
[speaker001:] that's probably right. The growth is fast enough so that they can't afford to just dawdle and wait until something
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] til they need them. Well, it's good to talk to you.
[speaker002:] Okay, yeah. How many calls have you made?
[speaker001:] Oh, about nine.
[speaker002:] Oh yeah, I'm up to twenty. Are you a T I -er.
[speaker001:] No, I just, just a housewife. I just heard about it and found it fun [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Oh, well, great, great, okay.
[speaker001:] Guess I like to talk, that's all [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] Well, it's been some interesting subjects, yeah.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] Thanks for calling.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh. Bye now [TV].
[speaker002:] Bye-bye.

[speaker001:] okay you want to tell me first how you feel about
[speaker002:] well um I I just think the way that things are going that um that it would be good for young people to go ahead and have um dedicate themselves to at least something
[speaker001:] the proposal uh-huh
[speaker002:] I know like the Mormon religion you know they require two years of service uh missionary service uh right the boys
[speaker001:] the boys not the girl just the boys
[speaker002:] yeah and um so but I think it would be good if for all young people you know to be able to to do something like that um so that um you know
[speaker001:] uh-huh um-hum
[speaker002:] I I I don't know I just feel it would be good for them to do that
[speaker001:] um-hum I I thought it would be good too but I did not think it would be good that they all do something like the Peace Corps
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] because not all young people would have uh what it takes to go like that
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] because I think it takes a certain person to to be able to do something like that but there's a lot of other public service things that could be done
[speaker002:] oh sure oh yeah and and even in even in our home towns there's a lot of um public service things that they could do
[speaker001:] um-hum right
[speaker002:] uh you know drug rehabilitation and and alcohol and and just uh helping old people and um
[speaker001:] right
[speaker002:] uh you know helping cripple just helping somebody else and I think that art of giving is something that um we don't have very much any more
[speaker001:] yes yeah uh-huh yeah I think it would be when they say this proposal is this something that they're just suggesting or are they actually why why why did they call it a proposal that
[speaker002:] oh I I think they just gave it a title but it's it's not something that's um in legislation or in works um uh yeah no no it's not it's just a just a topic but
[speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh that's what I wondered what it'd be a good character builder
[speaker002:] I I think so too I think so too um because there's so many um kids who have uh you know so much money and so much free time and uh nothing to do um and and nothing to give their time to
[speaker001:] huh um-hum um-hum
[speaker002:] um they don't even have a direction to give their their time to so I think it would be really good for people to um to be able to give their time in in uh some kind of public service uh even in our government
[speaker001:] right
[speaker002:] you know as uh aids to uh you know Congress uh people
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] so um yeah it would be uh it'd be really good I think
[speaker001:] um-hum well people that are um have received sentences in jail they have uh some of them are going out and doing uh they have to go out and do public service activities which to me is is good
[speaker002:] uh-huh right oh yeah oh yeah I agree with you yeah this is something that um like you say it's it's character building um you know learning how to to give to others and being less selfish and um
[speaker001:] um-hum  um-hum well I think sometimes it gives you a better picture of what some of the other people live like you know what what some of the other parts of the world are like or even other parts of the neighborhood uh
[speaker002:] um-hum right um-hum um-hum yeah
[speaker001:] some of the people how they live or
[speaker002:] oh I agree with you I agree with you and and I think uh young people are so um uh focused just on themselves and their activities and whose going out with whom et cetera that uh
[speaker001:] you know um-hum um-hum
[speaker002:] you know to get a taste of what the real world is actually about uh you know doing that that public service would be great yeah
[speaker001:] um-hum um-hum um-hum yeah because that's one thing that's hard with young people you you can't tell them how things are they have to see for themselves and
[speaker002:] right um-hum
[speaker001:] now of course this might be after they've gone through their teen years I don't know what their thought is on what age that this should be done
[speaker002:] oh yeah I would think so like right after um high school you know even even if it was like the the the their um that summer right after high school you know three months
[speaker001:] uh-huh um-hum of course they've already gone through the period of time where they need more direction
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] you know they their teenage years and that they really sometimes need a little better direction to go
[speaker002:] uh-huh uh-huh
[speaker001:] and something course now Peace Corps that couldn't be done of course until they were done with school
[speaker002:] right right
[speaker001:] in such
[speaker002:] you know something that was that was outside of uh outside of school
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] yeah but yeah you know right right after you graduate from uh high school because a lot of people are just um uh well gee whiz what do I do now if if they're not focused on going to college and uh you know having that that uh gung ho plan uh that's you know setting their life goals
[speaker001:] um-hum um-hum um-hum kind of an in between time
[speaker002:] um-hum um-hum yeah so to me see that would be the the uh the greatest time for um you know uh teenagers to to do that would be right after they graduated from high school
[speaker001:] yeah um-hum
[speaker002:] but as for it being required you know we're we're just not we're not based on on on that uh type of a system um
[speaker001:] yeah huh-uh no and and like I said not now all young people should be able to do something but
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] not all certainly would be geared to even the the Mormon boys that go out not all of them go I mean it's disaster if they don't go but but some of them are not they're just not made to do that type of thing
[speaker002:] right oh right uh-huh uh-huh
[speaker001:] and they just aren't able to do it
[speaker002:] yeah yeah so um yeah it'd be good but like I said it requiring it would be uh
[speaker001:] but

[speaker001:] Um, what kind of hobbies do you have?
[speaker002:] Um, I do a lot of cross-stitching and painting, when I do have spare time.
[speaker001:] Really, I like cross-stitch too.
[speaker002:] Oh, I love it.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] I just have a hard time finding any spare time lately.
[speaker002:] That's my case also. I've got a new born and there's just no time.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Have you been cross-stitching long?
[speaker001:] Oh, several years. My husband is even interested in it now. He likes to help me design, um, you know, projects that are,
[speaker002:] Oh, really.
[speaker001:] a little more customized.
[speaker002:] Mine, sort of, he looks at the pattern and he says how do you get that from there to the material [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Not that hard.
[speaker002:] Oh, it's not.
[speaker001:] I really enjoy it.
[speaker002:] And once you get started on it, it's just, oh, I just, I love it. *two utts
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] I do a lot of my own patterns also.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] In fact, I did one, BILL THE CAT, you know, from Glenn County
[speaker001:] Oh, yeah.
[speaker002:] that, uh, was a real good one to do. It was tough, but, uh, yeah. Do you have any others, or is this mainly cross-stitching?
[speaker001:] Um, I do mostly that, um, not very artistic really for like painting and stuff.
[speaker002:] Oh, uh-huh. Um,
[speaker001:] But, now I don't know.
[speaker002:] Yeah. I'm still trying to get all the D M C colors [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Oh, really [LAUGHTER]. Yeah, I've got the kits to put them all in. I don't have them all yet [talking]
[speaker002:] Yeah, right. Yeah.
[speaker001:] certainly.
[speaker002:] Yeah. I got to counting the other day and, uh, I think I have, what was it two hundred, and I got to thinking the money that I've got invested in this [LAUGHTER] is, uh, it, yeah, it can add up quick.
[speaker001:] Oh, yeah. I just, I just keep an inventory of what I currently have, and then when I start a new project, I go through and see if I, if I, you know, just buy the colors that I need
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] of what I'm low on.
[speaker002:] Right. I see. Well, now can I improvise with adding and using another color instead, you know, what comes close.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Because a lot of them are similar.
[speaker001:] Yeah. A lot of times you can do that. I think, I the pinks, there's like forty-two different shades of pink.
[speaker002:] Good grief [LAUGHTER]. Yeah, there's lots of pinks and greens.
[speaker001:] Pinks and greens. Yeah.
[speaker002:] There's lots of shades of greens. But the colors, I just love all the different colors.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] They had quite a few new ones come out last year, that they added to. But, you don't have much spare time either?
[speaker001:] Well, not lately [LAUGHTER]. I just started a new job and trying to get acclimated there.
[speaker002:] Oh, yes. And that does take some time. And if we're trying to get acclimated with the, uh, with having a baby, and.
[speaker001:] Yeah. How old?
[speaker002:] He's seven months old.
[speaker001:] Oh, yeah.
[speaker002:] And just into everything, so there's not a spare moment.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Oh, but I wouldn't trade it for the world. I've been trying to do some bibs for him.
[speaker001:] Oh, yeah.
[speaker002:] And, uh, work on his Christmas stocking.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] We missed it last year, so hopefully this year he'll have one.
[speaker001:] Yeah. Well, last year he was a little bit young for having one.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] He wouldn't have enjoyed it anyway [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]..
[speaker001:] You would have but,
[speaker002:] Right. If it tasted good, yeah. All he liked was the lights this year, so.
[speaker001:] Oh, yeah.
[speaker002:] Oh, well, that's neat that you like cross-stitching also.
[speaker001:] Yeah, that's, that's kind of strange [LAUGHTER] that we got the same call.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] It's a call.
[speaker002:] Oh, I'm sorry. Go ahead.
[speaker001:] No, that's okay.
[speaker002:] Okay [LAUGHTER], uh, but, yeah, I've been doing it for probably ten years or so.
[speaker001:] Oh, wow. No, I just started about, well, five years ago, I think.
[speaker002:] But it is peaceful, I mean it is relaxing to do, once you find the time to do it.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh [throat clearing]. There's also a couple of large projects, baby afghans, and I got one done and I think the other one is going. The child is going to be in high school before I get finished.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] On that, uh
[speaker001:] Bear thing.
[speaker002:] is it one of those afghans that I've seen in the packages with the, with the large squares?
[speaker001:] Well, yeah I just, I bought the cloth and the pattern for it. I didn't, um, I didn't buy the, uh, I didn't buy a kit.
[speaker002:] Oh, uh-huh. Well I've seen the afghans in the stores that are designed for cross-stitching.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh. It's that cloth.
[speaker002:] Oh, okay.
[speaker001:] It's an-, cloth I think.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] And it has the borders and everything already.
[speaker002:] Yeah. Those are pretty.
[speaker001:] Number one turned out just great, and the lady said she couldn't believe that they know that I had done it in the colors, that they had decorated the nursery and I didn't even know it.
[speaker002:] Oh, that's a.
[speaker001:] I gave it to her and she said how did you know those are the colors we used. I said [pause] didn't [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] That was a good.
[speaker001:] It worked out that way.
[speaker002:] That's great. Uh, that, uh, now I've got the material to do an afghan that I just never did get around to finishing it.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] I like those. Those are pretty.
[speaker001:] Yeah. Lilly, Lilly, she said, she said it's for your daughter to use. Oh, no. She said, I know she doesn't get to touch it. She hung it on the wall.
[speaker002:] Yes, my, uh, grandmother, um, made us a couple of quilts for the baby, and I was like, oh, I don't want to mess those up.
[speaker001:] Yeah [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Uh, they're just too nice. I mean you don't get many hand made quilts anymore.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] Oh, yeah.
[speaker001:] True.
[speaker002:] Well, I've enjoyed this.
[speaker001:] Okay.
[speaker002:] But, uh, well keep up the good, um, keep up the cross-stitching.
[speaker001:] You too.
[speaker002:] All right, thanks.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh, bye bye.
[speaker002:] Bye bye.

[speaker001:] All right, I, I think our experience of camping is, I, I am the, the passive member, I get things ready and then I enjoy.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Uh, because, my, my husband is a good camper and so they, he manages the troops and they do the work and I have fun [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Uh-huh. Well, uh, uh, your, you said your family was gro-, uh, all grown up now, how about when they were younger, did you go cam-, take them camping?
[speaker001:] That's when we camped the most.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] When, I thinks it's a marvelous activity for younger families because, uh,
[speaker002:] [Throat clearing].
[speaker001:] I, it seems like I would go through a period of time where I just, uh, was really overworked, you know, and, and getting out into nature and relaxing,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and having the family do a good share of the work, you know, and the part that I did was more fun than, uh, than labor because they did the, the running and toting chores and I just helped cook and kind of organize, you know.
[speaker002:] Yeah bu-, e-, even cooking over an open fire is a little more fun, isn't it.
[speaker001:] It is, isn't it. It isn't. Ha-, what kinds of things have you tried? Have you done, uh, uh, uh, the big pot cooking?
[speaker002:] Oh, oh, uh, well, it was really my ex who did the, the, uh, uh, the cooking back when we first started and we found that the, you know, what was one, one great handy things was this, uh, uh, uh, hamburger helper.
[speaker001:] Oh, yeah.
[speaker002:] Because all you needed was a big frying pan,
[speaker001:] Big frying p-,
[speaker002:] you dumped everything in together and it was enough for all five of us, six of us.
[speaker001:] Oh, that's interesting. You know, interesting enough, uh, the food part was kind of, uh, important thing in our camping. Uh, when my oldest son, uh, always at the beginning I did all the shopping and everything. But the, the neat breakthrough was when my oldest son Mark took his, uh, uh, cooking merit badge in, and, and Mark was the kind of camper who ate beef stroganoff and, uh,
[speaker002:] Oh.
[speaker001:] I mean, you know, he did it up really good [LAUGHTER]. And so, uh, after he took that merit badge, he did all the shopping and preparing, getting ready for it.
[speaker002:] Well that's great.
[speaker001:] It was, it was a marvelous experience because after that, then all I had to do was, uh, follow the instructions, you know and do. And we did a lot of interesting kinds of things like I would take corn bread and, uh, cook a pan inside of a pan over a, over a camp, uh, stove.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] And it works real good. It's like an oven.
[speaker002:] Well,
[speaker001:] Just put, uh, put a thing on it.
[speaker002:] cooking was our secondary interest, I mean.
[speaker001:] What did you like to do most?
[speaker002:] Well really just commune with nature.
[speaker001:] That's neat isn't it?
[speaker002:] We started out, uh, well we were living in Florida at the time and we, early in life, we discovered that six people all going on vacation gets to be very, very expensive.
[speaker001:] Right. I agree.
[speaker002:] So my ex decided, we're going to try camping and she went out one day on the spur of the moment and bought a tent.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] And that's how we got started.
[speaker001:] Huh.
[speaker002:] We did it for years and years, uh.
[speaker001:] Well now in Florida, is ther-, is there ti-, are there times of the year when it's very comfortable to camp or is it always kind of hot.
[speaker002:] Well, ye-, uh, yes and no. I mean, um, ye-, in the winter time yes, it's, it gets kind of chilly or it can get chilly.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] But, uh, there's really no time of the year that you can't go.
[speaker001:] Oh, is that true?
[speaker002:] Uh, becau-,
[speaker001:] Now, now we're, we're in Texas now and you're in Texas, right.
[speaker002:] Yes, I'm in Dallas.
[speaker001:] Okay, uh, we have not camped a great deal here because, uh, a good share of the time in the Summer time, it's too hot really to be very comfortable camping.
[speaker002:] Well, it just depends on where you go, for instance,
[speaker001:] I gue-,
[speaker002:] if you went down to the sea shore, it would be wonderful, a nice breeze blowing in from the water.
[speaker001:] Yeah, yeah, we have done that [breathing]. But, but we camped mostly, when the kids were little we were in, we were in New Jersey, and w-,
[speaker002:] Oh, where abouts?
[speaker001:] Uh, in, uh, Allendale and, uh, and, uh, Waldwick, it's just about twelve miles south of, the New York border.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] And we'd go up to the Adirondacks and camp and it was so, you know, pick your own, uh, blueberries and make blueberry pancakes for breakfast [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Oh yes, yes, ye-,
[speaker001:] Uh, also,
[speaker002:] I co-,
[speaker001:] go ahead.
[speaker002:] I come from up in that area, I'm a New Yorker myself.
[speaker001:] Oh, are you? Where did you live?
[speaker002:] A little town called Tuckaho, over by White Plains.
[speaker001:] Oh, oh yeah, I know that. I had a cousin who lived in White Plains, that's a, that's a neat area. But it's a, that is a particularly neat area for camping because,
[speaker002:] Well that I wouldn't know I left there when I was quite young.
[speaker001:] Yeah, it is neat though because there are lots of lakes, fairly near by, you don't have to go very far.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] And, uh, and there's, uh, a lot of trees, lot of mountains, and lot of, uh, hiking sort of things and, and we had, uh, collapsible boat which we, clipper, little clipper sail boat.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] And so we would sail and, and, uh, did a lot of camping that way.
[speaker002:] Well, uh, me, I outgrew, uh, sleeping bags and, uh, tents,
[speaker001:] [Breathing].
[speaker002:] and I now have a motor home.
[speaker001:] Oh, do you. We've gotten out a time or two on a rented basis and it's fun, too, I think.
[speaker002:] Well I live in mine.
[speaker001:] Do you?
[speaker002:] Yes.
[speaker001:] That's neat, so you kind of, uh, uh, an everyday camper [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Uh, well, yes I consider myself what they call a full-timer.
[speaker001:] A full time camper.
[speaker002:] Yeah th-,
[speaker001:] Well now, are you living alone now, or,
[speaker002:] Ye-, well just me and my dog.
[speaker001:] You and your dog, huh, [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Hey, that sounds great. Well, we don't, we don't camp quite as much as we used to, but, uh, I still think it's a great way to spend a time with your family,
[speaker002:] Oh yes, definitely.
[speaker001:] and enjoy nature and, uh, kind of wipe out the stress of everyday life. I'd always,
[speaker002:] Nothing like the fresh outdoors.
[speaker001:] right, I'd always come home just relaxed and, uh, comfortable and ready to go at it again, so it was a neat activity. Good to talk to you. Tell me your name again.
[speaker002:] Jack.
[speaker001:] Jack,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] all right.
[speaker002:] Are you, uh, from Dallas too, Beth.
[speaker001:] Ye-, yes, we've been here, we're, we're in Plano,
[speaker002:] Oh!
[speaker001:] but we've been here about, uh, eighteen years.
[speaker002:] Well that's where we, that's where I am, Plano.
[speaker001:] Are you, are you, how about that. Well we're all, lots of people from T I up this way.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] All right, good to talk to you.
[speaker002:] Nice talking to you too, Beth.
[speaker001:] All right, all right, bye-bye.
[speaker002:] Bye.

[speaker001:] Why don't you tell me about your choir.
[speaker002:] Oh.
[speaker001:] [Throat clearing].
[speaker002:] Okay, well, we, uh, are a group of, uh, musicians that just kind of have, you know, formed out of a desire to sing and many of the people in the group are very professional in the sense that they, or just real talented I should say.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Lot of them are former music teachers or currently teaching. Uh, others have, there's one gal that's in the, uh, Plano Community Orchestra. Uh, [lipsmack] just, you know, different backgrounds. It's been really kind of interesting.
[speaker001:] Great.
[speaker002:] So,
[speaker001:] Uh, I play the piano
[speaker002:] Um.
[speaker001:] and, uh, I have a four year old who, who has started to play the piano. He does that, uh, musically, listens and then he can play, which is kind of interesting.
[speaker002:] Oh, yeah.
[speaker001:] I think it's because he's always heard music in our home all the, since he was a baby.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Uh, [lipsmack] my husband and my other son, who's eleven just got through singing in a musical here, in, in the community at Music Man.
[speaker002:] Oh, they did?
[speaker001:] Yeah, and that's
[speaker002:] How did,
[speaker001:] lots of fun.
[speaker002:] How did they get involved in that?
[speaker001:] Uh, basically they read in the newspaper that there were open auditions. It was the Plano Repertory Theatre.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] And so they went and tried out and my husband played Harold Hill from the Music Man and my son played one of the children in a band.
[speaker002:] Oh, how fun.
[speaker001:] So, yeah, it was really fun, and, uh, my son plays the clarinet in his band at school, and my daughter takes piano lessons, too.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] But, uh, we just really like music. It's a, I, I especially like it as an outlet when the T V goes off, we [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] Um, uh-huh, um.
[speaker001:] get the T V off and just have some nice quiet music.
[speaker002:] Yeah, yeah, that's nice. You say have your four year old taking lessons already?
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And, uh, who do you have her, or him, take it from?
[speaker001:] Uh, I have him take from a friend of mine who teaches Suzuki.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Which is an auditory type learning experience. You listen to the music and then learn to play it by lear-, by hearing the intervals and things like that.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] I teach, uh, [lipsmack] like what is traditionally taught, you know, you look at the note on the page and you play what's on the piano, but he can't learn like that. He's a delayed child. He's only about, I guess he's about two and a half in his real understanding of things.
[speaker002:] Oh.
[speaker001:] And, uh, so when my friend played something on the piano and he played it, uh, with his right hand, we went, wow
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] we better have him do s-, do something.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] You know, educationally.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] So that was really fun.
[speaker002:] Well, because my,
[speaker001:] My husband and I love to go to the musicals downtown, though.
[speaker002:] Pardon me?
[speaker001:] So, my husband and I love to go to the musicals when they come into town
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] into Dallas.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh. Well, I have an eight and a half year old daughter who's taking piano lessons and started out at the age of just turning five
[speaker001:] Um.
[speaker002:] because she wanted, you know, she just seemed to enjoy it so much and now my, my four year old, four and a half year old daughter is, is trying to imitate her older sister and wanting to play and she actually does some very nice chording just naturally. She just,
[speaker001:] Oh, I think that's great.
[speaker002:] So I wasn't sure when to start her. I didn't want to push her too early, either, but, uh, kind of had a mixed feelings about that scene.
[speaker001:] That's really hard I think, because, especially if you start them and then they get pretty good and then they get close, ten, you know, eleven or something, they go, I don't want to do this anymore and you're like
[speaker002:] Uh-huh [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] God, I really want [LAUGHTER] you to do it.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] You know.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] So sometimes it's hard to, to know exactly when, but, I don't know, if she acts like she wants to or says she wants to maybe you could have her take some for a while and see how she likes it.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh, uh-huh. Yeah, I think she'd like to, I just don't know if it's really, knowing from what my daughter has gone through, she's, she learned a lot and, of course, it was something she had to keep relearning if she ever got away from it.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] It was something easily forgotten. So, uh, I don't know if she's any farther ahead than those kids who started when they were eight or, or should I say seven. I mean, she's not a gifted pianist in the sense that she's going to excel just naturally. She does have to really work at it, but, uh, so,
[speaker001:] That's like me.
[speaker002:] Yeah, but, so I'm kind of, you know, just playing with it, but at this point we're going to kind of wait, I think just more for the financial reasons of it anyway but,
[speaker001:] Well, it can get expensive
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] that's for sure.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] I, my friend is, is very generous in, in letting us have my children, uh, do the Suzuki method
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] without paying a lot out.
[speaker002:] Oh, that's good.
[speaker001:] Yeah, so it's been good for our family.
[speaker002:] Well, as a piano teacher, do you have any feelings for kids who come from a Suzuki method, have you had any former Suzuki students?
[speaker001:] I don't have any Suzuki students. Uh,
[speaker002:] I was wondering how,
[speaker001:] Something happening to me at Christmas time that, that verified to me that I will al-,

[speaker001:] So, let's talk about the, uh, wonderful abuses in the State of Pennsylvania of personal property taxes whereby you can purchase something mail order and after the fact, the State of Pennsylvania can find out about it and send you a bill for the sales tax appropriate to that item that you purchased as well as interest and penalties [inhaling] from the time that you bought it. What do you think? Is Pennsylvania kind of out of line there?
[speaker002:] Well, actually, I don't think they're out of line. De-, Devil's advocate possibly, but [rustling] [inhaling] it, you are trying to avoid paying taxes and whe-, whether or not you agree with that law, i-, you're still circumventing it. You are legal in, in your circumvention of that law.
[speaker001:] What, what if you're not doing it in order to circumvent the law though? I mean what if you don't even realize that you're subject to paying, uh, income tax on something that you purchase mail order?
[speaker002:] Really, I, I, I don't think that's a valid argument. I think that most people are quite aware they're not paying that six percent sales tax. Um, s-, s-, naturally some, some things you just can't find in your local K-Mart or, or, uh, Bryn Mawr stereo dealer. Uh, but th-, th-, th-, then why not pay, pay the sales tax. Corporations have to, why should an individual just because it's, just because the state can't really find out about it, be able to avoid paying sales tax?
[speaker001:] Well, I mean, it seems to me that, generally, at least in my own experience, when I purchase something mail order, it's not to circumvent paying sales tax to the State of Pennsylvania. It's because, I'm sorry, the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania.
[speaker002:] Yes.
[speaker001:] Uh, it's because I, I can't find the item that I want at a competitive price anywhere in my local area. So I go outside the area for that. And I think that it's not my responsibility to police myself and pay Pennsylvania what they believe they are owed even though, you know, the revenue stream went to another state. I don't, I don't think that that's my responsibility as a, as a conscientious consumer.
[speaker002:] [Lipsmack] I, I'll agree it, it's not your responsibility but, b-, is it also legal,
[speaker001:] [Rustling] [static].
[speaker002:] for you to do that? W-, w-, fr-, from what I understand from v-, v-, various net readings, i-, i-, it, the Federal government is going to try to legislate a more aggressive enforcement of state tax schemes, uh, in, into place in the next few years. It is, it is a lost revenue stream right now and states c-, can use all the revenue they can get. With some, with something like that, d-, do your arguments still apply?
[speaker001:] Well, I think that if, if policy is established and if a mechanism is put into place to promote the collection of taxes in this fashion, then I don't argue with it. Because it's not a burden on the consumer to remember that oh, I bought this out of state. I need [sigh] to Xerox the receipt and make out a check for six percent and send it to Pennsylvania.
[speaker002:] Which is exactly what businesses do at the present.
[speaker001:] Right. But the point is is that businesses do that. The business that you purchase the thing from is responsible for collecting the appropriate sales tax and forwarding it to the state in question. That's a cost of doing business. The burden
[speaker002:] And I, I
[speaker001:] shouldn't be placed on the consumer.
[speaker002:] I was actually talking about businesses purchasing something mail order and then having, having to pay sales tax on it.
[speaker001:] Uh.
[speaker002:] That's my understanding of the way, uh, the way it works. Usually, the, the person ordering doesn't pay. But the accounting department will, uh, suck up all the bills at the end of the month and realize how much they have to pay. And there r-, there are s-, some substantial, nasty penalties, um, if you, if businesses try to avoid that.
[speaker001:] Uh, do you mean businesses from the point of view as, of, of selling things to a consumer and
[speaker002:] I-,.
[speaker001:] then being responsible for the sales tax?
[speaker002:] No. Businesses, uh
[speaker001:] Or purchasing.
[speaker002:] if purchasing things mail order, if, if I'm a computer consulting firm and I see these, this great deal on forty-six mother boards, uh, from, from say Utah. Um, I, I might buy the mother boards from Utah but then still have to pay Pennsylvania sales tax. My a-, accounting department will at the end of the month. I think that i-, i-, I think that's the way things work in Pennsylvania. And I know they work that way in, uh, say here in D C.
[speaker001:] Yeah. See I'm unfamiliar with that because I don't, I never see that end of the business.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] So, my only experience has been from the point of view of a consumer. Uh, but, if that's the case, if the business is responsible for policing themselves, then I think some well defined mechanisms need to be in place so that, uh, the opportunity f-, to forget that you owe sales tax for something, uh, can be avoided.
[speaker002:] That's true. I-, i-, a r-, a big hole does exist right now, uh, in that consumers can just say oh, I, I forgot that. There, there is no well defined mechanism at all and, and that it is a [inhaling] a l-, loss. I, I think is that the Federal government will try to establish a mechanism ju-, just to do just that in or-, in order to gain the revenue that's being lost. Uh, I mean, I, I don't know if I agree with that. But it, but,
[speaker001:] [Rustling] [static].

[speaker001:] Say you did, uh, starters and bendix springs such as that on an old one.
[speaker002:] Yeah, and, uh, [NOISE] helped my wife replace some carburetors.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] Some that, she had to, uh, label everything [NOISE].
[speaker001:] She had to label everything.
[speaker002:] Yeah because,
[speaker001:] What was she driving?
[speaker002:] It was a Cadillac.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And they, uh, well, [breathing] they quit making those, the quieter jet carburetor and they quit making it.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] [Breathing] They rebuilt it and it never did, never did run right again.
[speaker001:] Yeah, quad not really easy to get rebuilt just right.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Uh, and like, what were you replacing the starters and bendix on?
[speaker002:] Uh, a Maverick and also, uh, a Chrysler station wagon before that.
[speaker001:] Yeah. Did you replace just the, uh, bendix on the Chrysler station wagon or the whole starter?
[speaker002:] Uh, the, I'm replacing the, two or three starters on the Chrysler.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] They,
[speaker001:] The starters are kind of fragile.
[speaker002:] Yeah and the,
[speaker001:] Especially if you need a tune-up.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh. They kept saying that the Chrys-, that's what Chryslers did, is they wore out starters.
[speaker001:] Yeah, well, i-, i-, if they start real easy, you know, you just hit the key and it starts up
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] and when it's properly tuned up, that starter will last for a long time.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] See, they built that starter so it would fit every V eight and all the slant sixes that they've built in like thirty-five years.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] They all take the exact same starter. They'll interchange completely. I mean completely. One starter will fit all of them. So they've got a whole lot of torque, but to do that, they did it, use an underdrive system, but they geared it down so the motor spins really fast
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] so it's got, to spin for very long, it's kind of tough on the bushings.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Usually what goes is the bushings.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] You take a little time, replace the bushings, you still got a perfectly good starter. But, uh, most places don't put, don't rebuild them with, with g-, with good enough bushings.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] So it's, you know, after you get rebuilt one, you have a tendency to go through them pretty quickly, especially if you need a tune-up.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Anyway, what are you driving now?
[speaker002:] Uh, my Chrysler van and it's, it's pretty maintenance free, you know, and, uh, at the beginning of the year last year and drove a Chevrolet Cavalier station wagon and it didn't give me any trouble at all.
[speaker001:] That's good.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] It was a late model, is that Chrysler van?
[speaker002:] It's a eighty-seven.
[speaker001:] Yeah, one of the little mini vans?
[speaker002:] Uh-huh, yeah. Is a,
[speaker001:] Do you like the way it rides and stuff?
[speaker002:] Uh, rides or runs?
[speaker001:] Rides rough?
[speaker002:] It, yeah, well, yeah, it rides, rides rough, it runs good.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] You know, I kind of, it took me a while to get used to a four cylinder engine.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] You have to kind of wait for it, especially when you get on the highway.
[speaker001:] Yeah, right now, without getting some of the sportier models, uh, the four cylinders aren't real peppy.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] But, uh, they're starting to change that out in the last couple of years, too.
[speaker002:] You driven American cars all,
[speaker001:] Uh, yeah, I've driven one im-, uh, I drove a Volkswagen Beetle for a while, [LAUGHTER] about a month. Uh, in a month I think I put, uh, three oil coolers on it.
[speaker002:] Go-,
[speaker001:] Uh, every time I turned around I was having trouble with it.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Everything else I ever owned was American built. Uh, mostly older cars. Uh, I've been a mechanic, well, I worked, starting working my father's service station when I was about, uh, twelve.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] So, I've been around cars a lot, but, uh, driven a lot of old Pontiacs. My first three cars were, uh, seventy model Pontiacs. A G T O and a Bonneville and a station wagon. I had a couple of Chryslers. Had a super B for a while with a four forty in it.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] It was a lot of fun.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] But, uh,
[speaker002:] Not much gas mileage, though.
[speaker001:] I don't know, gas mileage wasn't too bad. It got about seventeen.
[speaker002:] Oh, wow.
[speaker001:] Well, till you got crazy with it. You know, you get the four barrel all worked up and suddenly it, it, it drops off fast, but
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] long as you didn't spin the tires too much or, or spend too much time with the secondaries kicked in it, it didn't do too bad on gas. Didn't have to work too hard to move the car around.
[speaker002:] Now, do you think since they started with electronic ignition that it improves the way the car runs?
[speaker001:] Oh, yeah, yeah, definitely.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Yeah, the, my last G M car was a seventy Chevy station wagon and it still had the points and condenser in it. When I rebuilt the engine on that, about a hundred and thirty thousand on the car.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] I, uh, pulled that old points distributor out and got, an H E I distributor, electronic distributor put into it.

[speaker001:] .
[speaker002:] Uh, well I mean I've had time to think about it because, uh, we've had, uh, i-, i-, there's been a great deal of difficulty in finding someone to talk to so.
[speaker001:] Oh, okay.
[speaker002:] So, um, I, I was thinking about a couple things, uh
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] and whether they are serious. Some things are serious and some aren't. I guess the biggest thing that bothers me is, is, uh
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] not the biggest thing, but one of the things that bothers me is the credit information, uh, situation,
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] that you, uh, that you find yourself almost compromised into giving if you want any s-, sort of credit,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] e-, extensive checks and, and things of that nature.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] When, um, I, I, I mean I, I don't know if that's an invasion of privacy, simply, I, I do t-, I do feel it is but I don't know whether,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] some of the questions they ask are legitimate
[speaker001:] Uh-huh,
[speaker002:] uh, because they are the ones who are making the profit out of your [LAUGHTER],
[speaker001:] Well what's scary is, uh, uh, about two, three, four months ago on a Sun-, in the Sunday edition of what is called the morning paper here, The DALLAS MORNING NEWS.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] They showed a reporter and a, um, and a copy editor how they went out and they just took, um, a fellow in John Q. Public in Dallas and all they had was, let's see, they had his birth-, they had something like his birth date, the street address, um, they weren't even sure of the correct spelling of his last name, [cough] excuse me, and it was, um, very scary to see what they found out. I mean they were able to find out what liens he still had against, you know, two or three houses, through a two divorces, children's names, locations, um, it was really frightening.
[speaker002:] Well I guess, I guess then it's just the big brother concept of the fact,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] that once you give your social security number there are people I guess who are, who are, uh, actually collecting all this all the time and,
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] and profiles are given. I understand, uh, I read the other day that, uh, these telemarketeers when someone talks to you on the phone
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] uh, all, all they need now is your telephone number, which I guess is involved in this controversy of whether they can reveal your telephone number or not.
[speaker001:] Right, uh-huh.
[speaker002:] I, I, I feel that is an invasion of privacy but it,
[speaker001:] I do too, yeah. I don't, the other thing I don't like is, um, in terms of uh, like we just moved here from, uh, Minneapolis and, uh, to get the, the very nice townhouse that we're in,
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] you were required by the property management firm that was representing a private landlo-, you know, husband and wife, owners, um, who had never done this before. They, um, asked us for again an astounding amount of information and what we really didn't have the same opportunity, you know, and I guess that's when I also get upset that if you're going to do it then I want to do it too.
[speaker002:] Yeah, exactly.
[speaker001:] Um, in terms of the credit, yeah, I know, um, we're also going through adoption now,
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] in for an adoption, and I mean after we gave our fingerprints n-, to the F B I, you, you,
[speaker002:] My God.
[speaker001:] look at each other, yeah, you look at each other and say, well, [LAUGHTER], it's too late now.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Um, so I mean it's, it's a matter of anybody can get it any way and how if they really try, um.
[speaker002:] Yeah, I, I have a particular subject that not everyone agrees with me, uh
[speaker001:] Uh-huh, go ahead.
[speaker002:] uh, well, by, b-, uh, I make my living by, uh, flying airplanes for,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] for a company.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And, uh, as a, as a, uh, an airline pilot I have to take random drug testing.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] I mean it seems to me the public outcry was for that at the time, so I when I finish a, a certain flight on a random basis I have to,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] uh, have a wri-, a drug test and, and, and that's without i-, uh, probably cause,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] and, uh, a-, and,
[speaker001:] it isn't,
[speaker002:] in the end now, I mean they've tested, they've spent forty million dollars and they've found, uh, I think, uh, in pilots anyway, of something like, uh, uh, eighty-six thousand tests there's only been two guys have come up, uh, three guys have come up positive, and one of them was a bad test, so.
[speaker001:] Positive for anything, see yeah. See, uh, and I just started working, well for an electronics firm down here, I used to be a reporter.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] And then now, I'm in corporate communications,
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] and, uh, part of that [cough] excuse me, was, as a new hire, that I had to take a drug test,
[speaker002:] Drug test, righ-,
[speaker001:] and I had never been asked that and I thought, um, I really didn't like it. Um, I, I have very mixed feelings about it. I don't disagree or agree with you.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Um, I think i-, I think that it's well and you're in that field, so I don't know, but it's, you know, we lived in, uh, Minneapolis when the Northwest Airlines pilot in the Dakotas,
[speaker002:] Yeah, right.
[speaker001:] yeah, that hit the fan like, uh, you, uh, you're obviously aware of that, um [throat clearing].
[speaker002:] Yes, I am.
[speaker001:] I don't know there should be some happy medium in terms of, if they're going to do random, um, I, I don't agree with random, I guess I would look for a standard in consistency.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] You know, in terms of maybe at set intervals, so that everybody knows what's going on, um, I don't see a problem with that. I do think, I see some level of necessity, um, [throat clearing] in something where people are transporting other people, uh, only because of the things you've heard about. The problem is the reason I feel that way, even to a low degree is because it's the old story the minority make it bad for the, you know, majority, um.
[speaker002:] Yeah, I, I can understand the public's alarm to it,
[speaker001:] Yeah, I'm not alarmed.
[speaker002:] but, I guess, having done this all my life, I knew that there wasn't a problem and, and it, indeed it has proved out that way, but now, try to get the damn thing repealed, you know.
[speaker001:] You can't, yeah, I know, it's, um.
[speaker002:] I guess I feel bad because, uh, not only that but in some of the instances like you just cited where you have to give your fingerprints, I mean wha-, what, what happens if you say no. If you say no then you're excluded and I, doesn't seem the courts,
[speaker001:] Right, right, it's a matter, and that's, um, exactly what it is.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] I mean, that, that kind of screening in general is a matter of exclusion. Um, if we didn't give it we wouldn't go to Romania.
[speaker002:] That's right.
[speaker001:] I mean, if, you hate to say that, but that's the way it is.
[speaker002:] It's my feeling also that, that, that although I, I don't know if it's that serious, i-, but that was part of the question,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh,
[speaker002:] I do feel the courts have, have held up a great deal of, of our privacy, I mean particularly look in, in some of the, in some of the,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] uh, I notice in some of the sexual cases they've held up a great deal of privacy,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] which I support of course, but it I guess with our fear with crime and maybe airline crashes and things like that, it does seem that we've, we've slipped and that's eroded, or at least those in the market place their everyday life seemed to take that as a signal that, you know, it's fair game, t-, you, you have to answer these questions, of course.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Uh, I don't know, I, I feel there has been an erosion and I don't really know how serious it is, except I don't like it [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] In terms of the privacy, yeah, that in it, and also, I agree with that and in the, in terms of the question, um, in terms, uh, I worked in medical public relations for almost a decade,
[speaker002:] Um.
[speaker001:] and that was pre-AIDS and all the other, um, things,
[speaker002:] Um.
[speaker001:] that were probably there but just not [throat clearing], excuse me, labeled and I have a real problem with medical professionals, um, it goes back to the things like drug screening but if it's in any level even with the potential to endangerment,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] um, and I think this is much stronger than, you know, pilots or, uh, train engineers being screened,
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] um, the transmission of the AIDS virus, um, i-, i-, that's a real ethical problem. I mean I don't, I don't have the answer, I, I, {D you know, I mean } I think of the young girl in Florida who, well, yeah that's, was she from your part of the country? Or was she from,
[speaker002:] What was that?
[speaker001:] The young girl that, uh, contracted AIDS through her dentist, allegedly.
[speaker002:] Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[speaker001:] And then they proved it, yeah.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] I don't, I don't know, um, i-, y-, I don't know if it's the old story that we are killing ourselves in general, or what, um,
[speaker002:] Well I mean it, it, just take that, that step now, where, where now we feel there's a need to do that and the next thing you know then,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] uh, there's always the need to, to go and inspect lockers of high school students, tha-,
[speaker001:] Oh, yeah, the, I guess the question is, uh, the, the thing for me is, who sets the parameters or who has the control, you know.
[speaker002:] Yeah, I guess so, I mean well, uh, good luck to you, you just moved to Texas [LAUGHTER]
[speaker001:] Yeah [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] from Minneapolis. Uh, I don't,
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] I don't hold out much hope for you. I think they'll be a cultural shock. I mean I was based there a lot, uh, several times in the service and I was absolutely flabbergasted at the, in, in at least in criminal law some of the, some of the,
[speaker001:] Oh it's, it's ter-,
[speaker002:] latitudes that the police had, but.
[speaker001:] I'm, uh, very seriously, no-, more than just seriously, I'm more than likely going to be going to law school in the Fall.
[speaker002:] Oh yeah.
[speaker001:] And, yeah, if I figure out that's still what I really want to do and, th-, the things I'm finding out are the [throat clearing] in terms of things like privacy, the way the law is interpreted, presented,
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] um, it's no better than journalism [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Um, except in journalism it's words, um, this is very frightening in that, uh, oh, and in, uh, in Texas they, they d-, they do not require for instance for prospective adoptive parents,
[speaker002:] Um.
[speaker001:] whether it's domestic or international, they're one of only five states that do not require a criminal investigation check. Yet, if you're caught with, let's just say, um, that somebody who's in ne-, not us, but somebody who's need of carting, um, aluminum beer cans around, they haven't touched them, they haven't drank them,
[speaker002:] Um.
[speaker001:] they picked them up off the street and they want to take them to a recycling, uh, resource
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] for money, or whatever. Um, they've, they've been going through a lot of bad publicity here in the last three or four months again, um, because they've been arresting people like that.
[speaker002:] Well, I mean, I don't understand,
[speaker001:] You know.
[speaker002:] if you, if you don't, if they don't make a criminal check, why do you have to be fingerprinted.
[speaker001:] Because, um, in our case, one is at the state and the other one is at the federal level. Because you have to de-, because you have to deal with the I N, yeah, because you have to deal with the, uh, imi-, immigration service.
[speaker002:] Oh, I see, oh the state doesn't require it. Well that's kind of, that's rather, that's rather unusual, isn't it.
[speaker001:] Yeah it is, it's, uh, the whole thing is, I mean there's, again there's no consistency. You know, like in your, in terms of you being a pilot and being tested randomly, um, I can't see why after a certain number of years or after a certain time frame they can't do it at an interval, or you know, I mean ,
[speaker002:] Well I guess, I guess the extension of that is, why, why not, the next thing you know, we'll just stop a random amount of motorists and then if we really think that drugs are a problem we can randomly stop anybody on the street.
[speaker001:] They, they do that in Texas.
[speaker002:] Oh, they do?
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] They don't do it for drugs, what they do is they check to see if you've got, uh, current insurance or they check to,
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] to see if you're permits are,
[speaker002:] Well there's, there's all sorts of scare tactics, I guess, to, to invade our privacy and,
[speaker001:] Yeah, I know and it's kind of, um, what's the word I want, I don't, it's ju-, to me it's just frightening, you know.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] I mean the old, uh, I'm old enough now where George Orwell, uh, way past time [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] I just going to say, NINETEEN EIGHTY-FOUR,
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] is come an-, is come and gone but it's here.
[speaker001:] Yeah, it's exactly true, I mean I,
[speaker002:] And the computers, of course helps that. The computer abilities store that information.
[speaker001:] Well look at what we're talking now, I mean, it's, look how we're talking now, I mean you wonder ultimately what a network of stranger, you know,

[speaker001:] so that the topic is hobbies
[speaker002:] in your spare time
[speaker001:] yeah who has spare time um I don't really don't really do any handicraft things like that I used to I used to do like salt dough ornaments and things
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] but that was oh good many many years ago and I have I really my spare time I usually go do aerobics and
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] read and that's about it
[speaker002:] yeah yeah I understand that I'm you know I work full time and I have two kids so my spare time usually involves something with the kids yeah you know hobbies we I I can't really say that we have hobbies it's more like maybe
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] projects or something on the weekend you know we like to go out go out
[speaker001:] yeah family well well that's what I meant by salt that we we did that like as a family little ornaments and things like that and just kind of really got into it like during the Christmas season making them up for other people and things like that but
[speaker002:] oh uh-huh right um-hum
[speaker001:] as far as I've just never been very skilled at far you know needle work wise and the things I've tried to do just don't look very good and
[speaker002:] uh uh-huh I've I guess mostly as far as as crafts go I've done um some needlepoint and I've done mostly cross stitching I used to uh do like um one that I did for both kids are like oh they're plaques with you know different kind of animals and then you have their birth date on them and then you have a little picture of them and you frame them and stuff but nothing steady just
[speaker001:] yeah um-hum
[speaker002:] when I get some spare time here and there I'll work on it but you know it's nothing that I can really
[speaker001:] it's not like you sit and knit every night yeah I don't even know how to knit and my mother used to knit you know all the time and and I don't even know how to knit and I'm like that's a lost art from this family
[speaker002:] no not at all uh-huh  yeah
[speaker001:] so um but it's not a very good topic it feels like if you know not when you're neither neither one of us are really
[speaker002:] no
[speaker001:] I I have seen things I really like you know that were done
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] especially like needlepoint needlepoint cushions and things but it just seems like there'd be so much time involved in it you know that and that the petty point and things like that it's like God it just just seems like it's
[speaker002:] yeah yeah
[speaker001:] easier just to go out and buy it already made
[speaker002:] I don't know what what what is it's like there but here a lot of the country stuff is in you know lot of the woodwork a lot of uh stenciling
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] and you know you can go to any like a flea market and stuff and there's just tons of stuff everywhere and
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] you know people just do it in their garage and then on weekends they go out and sell it and during the week they go back and do some more
[speaker001:] and see they do that as their job whereas you know for us it and they make it cheaper for us to buy so
[speaker002:] right yeah definitely
[speaker001:] but and I I mean I'm sure it must be relaxing to do things like that because I can remember when I used to do you know those little salt dough figurines and things it was it was relaxing you know creative you felt very creative
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] but it just was so time time involved you know so much time involved and the different steps and things
[speaker002:] yeah um-hum
[speaker001:] so and
[speaker002:] okay well I think I think we're okay I think we did done five minutes so we don't have to keep talking about nothing anymore okay well thank you
[speaker001:] yeah so okay I hope you have a good rest of your weekend okay bye-bye
[speaker002:] thanks bye-bye

[speaker001:] all right
[speaker002:] okay well I can go ahead and start and tell you mine um we're from San Antonio and that's where I grew up so I was used to the heat and out here right now um gosh it gets to about seventies high seventies and it gets very cold at night
[speaker001:] okay oh uh-huh uh-huh
[speaker002:] and Monterey sits um right on the coast and I don't know if your familiar with the um the California coastline but we're we're about two hours about a two hour drive south of San Francisco
[speaker001:] oh okay
[speaker002:] and it's uh really nice uh it's a big area for people to come from the different uh countries mostly like Japan and Germany and England and they usually go to Carmel and vacation on the beaches so it's it's pretty nice uh year round but um cool always cool in the evenings and uh warm in the warm in the summer but it's stays pretty cool even uh during the winter for as nice as it is
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] and um we usually get a fog uh right about oh I guess about four o'clock and it kind of rolls in over the coast and uh then it usually breaks back off again uh the next morning and if you go just a little bit ways in I'd I'd say about a fifteen minute drive in towards Salinas uh it the weather completely changes and it gets very hot and dry and uh the fog never makes it that far but along here it's uh very very uh different from the the Texas type weather
[speaker001:] hum
[speaker002:] so what's it like down there
[speaker001:] well right now we're having the the little bit of spring that we have yeah
[speaker002:] oh really well at least you've got some
[speaker001:] we we don't have many seasons here it goes from winter to summer usually
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] uh spring usually consists of a lot of rain excuse me especially thunderstorms I don't know we've got we had one of those blow through tonight
[speaker002:] oh well that's good
[speaker001:] and I think we got the same thing in the forecast for the next two or three days
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] so it's
[speaker002:] have y'all been having any heat waves or
[speaker001:] uh it's gotten up to uh ninety a couple of times
[speaker002:] like the ninety degree uh-huh
[speaker001:] uh but basically been in the the low seventies and eighties
[speaker002:] uh-huh oh well that's good for this time of year
[speaker001:] yeah it's not really been too bad because usually it sneaks on into the nineties a little earlier
[speaker002:] uh-huh uh-huh oh do y'all have many bluebonnets and stuff up there
[speaker001:] yeah quite a bit in fact the the season well the season's just about over for that uh in fact we drove down to Corpus last week
[speaker002:] oh I bet uh-huh
[speaker001:] and uh there there were still some indian paint brushes and bluebonnets down along the way
[speaker002:] oh I miss I miss that
[speaker001:] funny we drove through San Antonio and I spoke to somebody else this morning from San Antonio yeah we're they had that we came back what day was that Sunday evening and they had a a big rainstorm come through there part of the same thing we're getting now I guess
[speaker002:] oh yeah well that's real nice because I can remember um two years ago that in about February the hundred degree weather started in San Antonio and just continued so at least y'all are getting some rain up in Dallas I'm glad to hear that
[speaker001:] yeah this that's the second or third year in a row that we've had a real rainy spring we had a pretty rainy fall last year as well
[speaker002:] uh-huh y'all weren't getting any of the strings of uh the tornadoes and stuff were you
[speaker001:] um we had a few down here but but not anything like Kansas and this is the season for that
[speaker002:] uh-huh oh okay oh gosh
[speaker001:] they do they do pop up occasionally around here
[speaker002:] uh-huh oh yeah I really don't miss all the heat here it's I'm getting acclimated to having the cool evenings so we get a bit of a relief
[speaker001:] yeah yeah I'm I'm from here originally so July and August I'm pretty well used to the hundred degree temperatures and stuff
[speaker002:] uh-huh yeah
[speaker001:] the the biggest problem with with the with the weather and the rain in this area is the the soil it's that black clay soil
[speaker002:] oh is that what Dallas is okay yeah
[speaker001:] it's kind of sandy you know it's not sandy like most of the state is so it doesn't absorb the water real well I mean once it rains a little bit it's
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] it's filled up and everything else just runs off so
[speaker002:] um-hum yeah San Antonio has that same problem when the rains come it's a complete it's a complete mess everything floods all the under passes so I didn't realize that Dallas had that same problem
[speaker001:] yeah yeah we have it especially especially as rainy as it's been in the last couple of years there's a uh there's a section in South Dallas that has had a whole lot of flooding problems because of the rain
[speaker002:] huh golly well we could use some rain up here we're like in the bottom of the fourth year of drought
[speaker001:] really
[speaker002:] up here and they they had a pretty good early spring and we got quite a bit of rain but it wasn't enough to offset what they had lost over the last four years
[speaker001:] huh
[speaker002:] and uh so they're still talking water rationing this summer so uh it would seem strange because in San Antonio um we had lived out um west of San Antonio in Castroville
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] and the water in Medina Lake and that area was really going down and they were considering um that they might have to do water rationing and then I thought oh gee I'm so glad to get out of there and get up here to the the California Pacific coast where it rains and everything has flowers and there's no problem with water and then I came here and found out they were in you know in the four year drought so I said well gee this is pretty much like Texas and it pretty much is in the middle of summer they have rolling hills around here but
[speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh
[speaker002:] um they they turn to golden dead grass for the majority of the summer just because there is no water to keep them green
[speaker001:] hm yeah
[speaker002:] but um it's a really nice area uh it's just it's just such a change uh from Texas because I had grown up with uh the heat and was used to essentially like you said you have the cold winter and then you have the hot
[speaker001:] uh-hum
[speaker002:] summer spring and uh to come here it's kind of the the temperate weather all year round it's kind of like um spring I guess if you uh year round
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] except and then in the the winter and then it seems sort of like a San Antonio um early winter or fall year round so it seems like we only have two springs which is or two seasons and that would be spring and fall and we never really get any of the other ones
[speaker001:] huh uh-huh yeah huh
[speaker002:] but it is it's a really nice uh change of pace
[speaker001:] I guess I'd prefer that
[speaker002:] yeah to the to the heat I really don't miss the heat um we do a lot of you know when you do a lot of outside like running and stuff out
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] it's just so much easier up here and you don't have to worry about the high high humidity does Dallas get high humidity
[speaker001:] um-hum yeah we we it's pretty dry we get some when it's this rainy but it's nothing like I guess San Antonio summers it's nothing like Houston
[speaker002:] or is it pretty dry uh-huh
[speaker001:] for instance it'd be or east Texas is a little more humid
[speaker002:] yeah it seems like San Antonio has been increasing in humidity over the years because I had lived in San Antonio for about twenty years and it just seemed like every year it just got a little more humid a little more humid and here it's uh well it's right by the ocean but um it's not the same as at Corpus at Corpus you you get that humid salty
[speaker001:] huh
[speaker002:] feeling in the air but here um the well the water is extremely cold up here you can lay on the beach all you want but if you want to go wind suffering or diving or swimming you have to wear a wet suit
[speaker001:] uh-huh um
[speaker002:] and a thick wet suit at that because it's just extremely cold and I for some reason I guess it's because of that cold uh ocean uh water that the air is always cool it's never humid or sticky or salty feeling so I really like that about this area and uh we just hadn't expected it we were used to what uh uh gulf coast uh weather was like and we came here to Pacific coast weather it's just completely different and it's much nicer
[speaker001:] yeah yeah probably the Pacific breezes make a lot of difference in that
[speaker002:] so uh-huh it does and the um the air doesn't feel anything like it does along the gulf coast region but um but we like it so it's a nice change so we'll be here a couple of years and we thought well we'll take advantage of it and see what all the Pacific coast is like
[speaker001:] that's nice
[speaker002:] and uh so it's been good
[speaker001:] yeah my wife's originally from Virginia and we lived there for about nine months and that was a real change for me
[speaker002:] oh I imagine that Virginia I imagine gets really humid doesn't it
[speaker001:] um parts do we uh we were over in the in the western edge in the mountains
[speaker002:] oh
[speaker001:] and they have of course some pretty severe storms uh winter storms snow and that type of thing
[speaker002:] uh-huh uh-huh
[speaker001:] but they're so good about clearing the roads that you know it doesn't usually bother you very much
[speaker002:] uh-huh yeah not like Texas where everything comes to a stand still you know uh
[speaker001:] yeah and and their springs and summers are pretty mild too it never gets real real hot there
[speaker002:] uh-huh oh yeah I'll have to try that out because I had heard that North Carolina was sort of like that
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] and uh I've just never really been in that region of the country and I guess I'm going to have to try that area sometime and see what it's like because a lot of people that are from that North Carolina region really like it and uh they like they get the snow but they said it doesn't really get messy and it doesn't really hang around that long and
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] uh they the people I know that are from there uh they always miss it and they want to go back nothing seems quite as good yeah but anyway
[speaker001:] um-hum well funny as we were talking the weather came on and there's a flash flood watch and
[speaker002:] well oh gee whiz
[speaker001:] more rain for the next three or four days
[speaker002:] oh gosh oh well I hope it moves up this way but I'm sure it won't
[speaker001:] yeah maybe we can send you some
[speaker002:] yeah because we could sure use it okay well you think that takes care of the the time and
[speaker001:] I think that'll do it
[speaker002:] okay well I sure appreciate hearing how things are going in Texas and uh
[speaker001:] well I enjoyed talking with you Lisa
[speaker002:] yeah good luck to you okay we'll see you um bye
[speaker001:] uh-huh you too
[speaker002:] bye bye

[speaker001:] Okay, have you painted something lately?
[speaker002:] Yes, I have. That room I showed you.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] And then since then we have painted the bedroom.
[speaker001:] Oh yeah, another bedroom.
[speaker002:] Yeah, I showed you that one too didn't I? The brown one.
[speaker001:] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
[speaker002:] Yeah, the one that looks like a fudgesicle.
[speaker001:] Oh yeah [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Oh heavens. Well, I painted the outside of my house
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] and one bathroom. But I get, I have that problem with the the ceiling, you know, the, uh, the blown, blown, ceiling.
[speaker002:] Oh yeah.
[speaker001:] You know where you get around the edge.
[speaker002:] Well, that is hard. Now, I asked Janice, or somebody recently how you do that
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] uh, when you paint the ceilings
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] you know where you have got that textured stuff, that they have special rollers that are real soft and furry that you paint that with.
[speaker001:] Well, how do you get the edge though?
[speaker002:] How do you get the edge?
[speaker001:] The the straight edge?
[speaker002:] You just have to be real careful.
[speaker001:] Oh, I see.
[speaker002:] We use, uh, uh, a two inch brush with, uh, on a slant
[speaker001:] Uh-huh. Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] and that mostly does it even though you still make mistakes. But.
[speaker001:] Huh. Well are you going to paint the outside of your house too?
[speaker002:] Well, yeah. I think I am going to do it this spring actually.
[speaker001:] Oh really?
[speaker002:] Yeah, there are six houses. See the people that own the house they, uh, pay for anything like that, that we do.
[speaker001:] Oh nice.
[speaker002:] As far as the the materials. There are three houses on this street the same color of yellow out of six houses.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] So, I am thinking I am going to change it to, uh, something, you know, the brick is multi color.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Mostly earth tones. I think I am going to put something like a brown on it, on the outside.
[speaker001:] Oh, that will be nice.
[speaker002:] And maybe, a little deeper brown in the entry way or something so it will stand out a little.
[speaker001:] Huh.
[speaker002:] What color did you paint,
[speaker001:] Or, two tone, or two tone.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] You know.
[speaker002:] There are some columns that could be painted a different color too.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] What color did you paint your house?
[speaker001:] White.
[speaker002:] On the out,
[speaker001:] But, I have a problem. I can't get up high and we can't paint the chimney [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Well, you have got to get one of those ladders.
[speaker001:] We have one of those ladders. We are just not willing to get up that high.
[speaker002:] Oh, yeah.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] A friend of mine that lives out in your neighborhood, he has done his house and that is what he, I was out there last week and he has finished everything except the chimney.
[speaker001:] Well, we did too. We did it in the fall and it, it's just too high. It is really scary, but
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] and the only thing I would consider doing, a professional, maybe doing that, but it other than doing our own work I prefer it to a professional.
[speaker002:] Well, our house in New Mexico, it was stucco, but we had all this trim to paint, and lots of it.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] And we did basically seventy-five percent of the house and then I was afraid to do the eaves way up high and stuff.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] So, I hired this man to come in and do it. A young kid.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And he came with, with his own raf-, what do you call those things?
[speaker001:] The blowers?
[speaker002:] No, those where you built like a rafter thing.
[speaker001:] Oh, oh, oh, oh, I know what you are talking about. Uh
[speaker002:] Yeah. Scaffold.
[speaker001:] scaffold. That's it [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] He came and did it that way and I think he charged me a hundred dollars to finish up.
[speaker001:] Huh.
[speaker002:] And literally I wouldn't have done it with the scaffolds because
[speaker001:] Its,
[speaker002:] all the places that I had left for him were above huge humongous cactus
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] and if he fell, he was dead and he knew that [LAUGHTER]. So,
[speaker001:] Oh, my. So that was worth it getting a professional
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] for that.
[speaker002:] Plus, he cleaned up my mess.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Oh, I think that is what we might have to do with this chimney, but other than that, it was pretty easy doing it ourself and caulking it and everything ourself.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] It wasn't too bad. I mean you think,
[speaker002:] How much did it cost you for the paint for the outside?
[speaker001:] Shoot, maybe a hundred and fifty.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Since, it is a one story, but we did, uh, like two heavy coats over it. But then that way
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] you know you are assured you did a good job than you are, you know, if you hire someone to do it.
[speaker002:] But, that friend of mine that painted his house out there in your neighborhood
[speaker001:] Uh-huh. Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] he went to, uh, I guess to buy his paint
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] and yet he bought like seventeen gallons.
[speaker001:] My word.
[speaker002:] And, anyway, he, when he checked out
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] and he was using his charge card too.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] They only charged him for one gallon of paint. Like thirteen bucks or something.
[speaker001:] Oh, my word.
[speaker002:] And he had, he had, the, uh, he had already carried a ladder outside
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] and told her that and she wrung all that stuff up and made a mistake on the price of the paint
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] so she had to start all over again
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] and when he got outside, he noticed his receipt was like thirteen ninety-nine or something.
[speaker001:] Oh, my word.
[speaker002:] And he saw.
[speaker001:] So that was really worth it. Painting his own house.
[speaker002:] Yeah, it was like over two hundred dollars worth of free stuff.
[speaker001:] Oh, my word [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Oh, my word. Well, he really saved in that way.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] Yeah.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] But, yeah, I think we are going to do, uh, another bathroom, but I think I will probably just do it, in a roller. I want to do it about the same color. And just be a little,
[speaker002:] Uh. Rollers are so messy. We never any more.
[speaker001:] Oh, I know. But it's that, it's the textured wall.
[speaker002:] Well, a little paintbrush,

[speaker001:] Capital punishment, uh, I guess, out in California is, has had a lot of, uh, a lot of, you know, discourse in the paper. Uh, apparently, you know, there's, they haven't, uh, executed anybody since nineteen sixty-seven, I believe.
[speaker002:] [Clicking] [rustling] Uh, yeah. That's, that's as far back as I can remember [LAUGHTER]. Well, that's before
[speaker001:] Yeah, they,
[speaker002:] my time actually.
[speaker001:] Well, I, we were, we, uh, we just started, we lived in Redwood City when we were out there.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] And, uh, and we found that, uh [throat clearing] you know, it was a very liberal kind of community. But the, uh, I, I really feel that, that the law enforcement community, uh, you know, puts these people behind bars and then they, they, uh, uh, you know, lawyers, these lawyer groups get together and they, uh, they, I think, extend beyond the normal, uh, appeal process. Uh, you know, and just drag these, this guy, uh, his, his, uh, ultimate, uh, demise out for ten or fifteen years. Uh, and I, I think that, uh, that there's something that has to be changed in the system to, to do that. I think capital punishment, uh, uh, was or probably stringent enough but I think the appeal process is really getting in the way.
[speaker002:] [Music] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Do, do you feel as though there should be, uh, [throat clearing] more, uh, was or, or more, uh, you might say transgressions that would be enforceable by, uh, by, uh, uh, capital punishment?
[speaker002:] Well I think that currently the way the law stands isn't so much that the laws are enforceable or not, it's more they're not enforcing the death penalty itself. It's at that point where they're saying like here you're, you're going on death row but you'll stay there for twenty years.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And nothing is being done about it. Uh, the laws exist and are frequently upheld in, in, uh, in Appeals Court just because of technicalities [swallowing] and because of maybe small little holes that their defending attorney can find. And it's, it's really getting out of hand in many states.
[speaker001:] Well, [throat clearing] the term technicality. The law enforcement community,
[speaker002:] [Rustling].
[speaker001:] uh, uh, you know, has to, has to separate the difference between somebody who is being set up in which, uh, grievous [mispronounced] acts are done to, uh, to, you know, to get somebody into a, a situation where they're going to be guilty of, of a crime.
[speaker002:] [Noise].
[speaker001:] Or whether, uh, an-, and whether the rights of that individual are been, have been, you know, impuned. Uh, but [throat clearing] or whether there's just, you know, a policeman has just made a, uh, [NOISE] a, you know, a non, a noncritical error, though be it not the right way to do it but, but, you know, the, the merits of the case in terms of, you know,
[speaker002:] [Talking.]
[speaker001:] the guy was a law breaker, as being supportive. Now, I, I'm, a-, a-, at this juncture I, you know, I'm, I'm not sure, you know, what constitutes a, a technicality. You know, that, that's what all c-, these, these hearings are about and that's what all these, you know, court cases are about. I mean our, uh, our, our glorious, uh, you know, mayor here in Washington is six days away from getting out of, out of the can and, uh, [throat clearing] you know, he, he tried to appeal his conviction. Uh, and, you know, it didn't work. But be that as it may, everybody who got enough money will pump the appeal process dry. Uh, in, in the old days, you know, and say round about times of battle of Hastings, you know, and the villages if you were a transgressor, they, they either, you know, drove you out in the woods or you became a ward of somebody and he, you were his slave. And if he didn't like what you did, he killed you.
[speaker002:] [Noise].
[speaker001:] And that has, that's pretty effective. Uh, you know, it's not good for civil rights, I guess, but it's pretty effective in that, you know, you've got to get along in the community and if you don't you'll perish. Either by the hand of your, your, your master or by being pushed out in the woods. So, I, I, I mean as, as man has gotten more complicated so all of the, uh, imaginations to, uh, you know, protect him from, from being, uh, dumped on by, uh, civilian authority in, in so-, in criminal actions, especially, you know, murder cases and that sort of thing.
[speaker002:] Well, it seems like [cough], well it, it seems as if in the past typically [talking] there have been a lot of cases of people being wrongly tried or wrongly punished, and the whole idea behind the current criminal process system [swallowing] is to protect those who actually didn't the crimes, albeit it seems that we are failing in that, in that ultimate goal because there are times when people who are guilty are getting off. Um, for instance, um there's a case a few years back where, uh, [swallowing] someone, uh, someone who's being convicted for, was under a tri-, was going to trial for murder, was let off because of a technicality in that. The of-, the arresting officer, uh, did not read the defendant their rights.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And where his,
[speaker001:] [Throat clearing].
[speaker002:] old evidence was there, the witnesses were there, the, everything was conclusively pointing to this individual yet [music],

[speaker001:] so you have a child
[speaker002:] yeah we have a
[speaker001:] two years old in child care right now
[speaker002:] two year old daughter in child care and we went through the process of searching for child care and uh finding what we consider to be real good child care at a uh
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] pretty reasonable price we think how about you do you have any children
[speaker001:] uh yes our first and he just turned three months
[speaker002:] oh boy
[speaker001:] so we're just starting into hunting for child care right now both of us are students
[speaker002:] yeah are you where are you student
[speaker001:] uh uh University of Southern Mississippi
[speaker002:] no kidding
[speaker001:] um
[speaker002:] I was a professor in a university here in California for a while
[speaker001:] she's yeah
[speaker002:] yeah uh are you gonna uh put your son in child care in a a year or two
[speaker001:] uh probably um
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] actually spring semester a year from now he's gonna have to be in child care for uh five days a week more than likely uh depending on how my class schedule runs because my wife will be doing her internship that semester it'll be forty hour week not no eight to five type of thing
[speaker002:] yeah uh-huh yeah
[speaker001:] so depending on what my class schedule looks like he may spend four six anywhere from four to eight hours a day in child care by that point right now we're trying to avoid it but we just a matter of fact just yesterday hired a a girl to uh watch him uh I get out of class at certain time and my wife is already supposed to be on her way to her class you know once a day this overlap happens where we can't one of us be home so for about twenty minutes twenty thirty minutes a day we got a babysitter comes in
[speaker002:] yeah yeah well that's a good experience I think and uh there are a lot of things to think about and the articles that are written on the topic are pretty good and they kind of boil down to uh any other important decision you really have to explore the alternatives and what we found
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] um to be the best guide was our own instincts about people who were gonna be loving and uh that's more important than anything else we could have sent uh her to a fancier
[speaker001:] um-hum yeah
[speaker002:] um facility um she goes to a home this is a um
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] a couple uh emigrated from China early in in their lives they've been here probably thirty forty years they've got three daughters
[speaker001:] um-hum yeah
[speaker002:] um and they have a loving home and uh they're both there and they have a kid that comes in and helps them in the afternoon
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] and our daughter is healthy happy well adjusted and enjoys going to see her friends so it's a good experience I think if it's good I think it's very good for the child
[speaker001:] yeah uh that makes a big difference yes
[speaker002:] and if it's a loving environment I think it's very good and and that's really what we've learned about it she'll have to go on to something more stimulating in terms of a preschool in a year
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] but um we feel real fortunate and we were able to uh just uh choose in the marketplace I don't know what it's like around uh Hattiesburg
[speaker001:] there's a lot of child care available but invariably there's waiting lists
[speaker002:] uh-huh yeah
[speaker001:] and we were a little slow getting on the waiting list with the uh okay the university uh university's uh uh department of um uh well their Home Economics Department
[speaker002:] yeah I'll bet they're involved yeah
[speaker001:] um they uh they have a subbranch uh American Family Counseling and their people staff this this uh the child care center just off campus but uh they have a pretty good size waiting list so uh
[speaker002:] yeah well that's uh I know it's it's a real uh hard thing to do even for people in in uh university communities out here at Stanford they have a
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] you know a a a real good facility and there uh is is quite a waiting list to get into that so it's uh
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] you know it's a it's a it's an important decision it's an industry that's still a cottage industry and I think that it it really is buyer beware
[speaker001:] yeah well it's best yeah a cottage industry's the best way to do it really because if you over
[speaker002:] well it is the best way to do it interestingly I think that um my own interest in in development human development leads me to believe that that's a good sign and that um
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] private enterprise is the way to go and that it will lead to a fundamental change in the way we learn because I think what we're gonna go to is much more commercial entrepreneurial learning ventures in the market as a matter of fact my future is banked on that
[speaker001:] yeah  yeah
[speaker002:] uh professionally because I believe that that there are uh pressing needs in the marketplace unmet by schools colleges universities for
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] uh learning a lot of things that kids can learn watching Sesame Street and in child care primary skills which turn out to be the most important skills in life
[speaker001:] yes it's amazing how much good things like uh Sesame Street will do
[speaker002:] it's it's phenomenal it's phenomenal the the programming
[speaker001:] is uh
[speaker002:] the human operating system is my area

[speaker001:] Okay. Uh, read any good books lately? [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] Uh, yes, I, I've read, uh, several good books lately. Uh, lot of them related to, uh, business and financial matters since that's what I do for a living.
[speaker001:] Oh, okay. Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] How about yourself?
[speaker001:] Uh, well I'm in graduate school and so I read a lot of books but I don't know if I consider very many of them good [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Uh, I haven't read a book for enjoyment since, I guess, around Christmas. Uh, I [throat clearing] re-, received, uh, uh, several books for Christmas and at Christmas break I read, uh, SARUM by, uh, uh, a fellow named Rutherford.
[speaker002:] Yes.
[speaker001:] Uh, it's the history of, uh, well it's sort of the his-, the historical fiction about, uh, the Salisbury area in, in England.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] And so, I, I really enjoyed that book a lot. Uh, he's not quite as good as, you know, Michener or some of, uh, some of the other historical writers. But he, he did this job well, so.
[speaker002:] Well, that sounds good.
[speaker001:] Yeah. Uh, do you find th-, do you find you have much chance to read for, for just pleasure or mostly for business?
[speaker002:] No, I read for pleasure some also. I read a book recently called IRON JOHN.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Have you seen that by Bly?
[speaker001:] I don't think I have seen it.
[speaker002:] Okay. Well it's a book about,
[speaker001:] [Noise].
[speaker002:] uh, uh, Greek gods and, and Greek, uh, mythology
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] as well as, uh, man and interacting with other men and a book about, uh, men and how they mature through life.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh. Oh.
[speaker002:] And how they deal with life itself [sniffing].
[speaker001:] Okay. I think I have heard about that. Yeah.
[speaker002:] But it's, uh, it's all revolved around, uh, mythology.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Uh, as far as, uh, traditions from, uh, other cultures and our culture.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And how we, uh, interact with one another.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh. Yeah, that sounds great. Did, did it have something to mention about, uh, sort of, uh, cultural rituals of, of manhood?
[speaker002:] Yes.
[speaker001:] Okay. Yeah, I have heard of that. I have, uh, someone suggested that I read it. Is it IRON JOHN?
[speaker002:] Yes.
[speaker001:] Okay. Good.
[speaker002:] By Bly, B L Y, I believe it is.
[speaker001:] B L Y?
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Okay. Great.
[speaker002:] And, uh, it's a very interesting book.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh. Uh, what are your favorite, uh, do you have a favorite subject to read, whether it be science fiction or, or history or,
[speaker002:] Well, it depends again if we're talking about [LAUGHTER], uh, I read a lot of religious books.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Uh, just because I have an interest in that area.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And I read a lot of books in the area of, uh, uh, psychology and self-help type, uh, materials.
[speaker001:] Okay.
[speaker002:] Uh, always trying to understand people
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] better and understand myself in relation to other people and try to understand where the people are coming from because I'm in a people business.
[speaker001:] Okay.
[speaker002:] And, uh, so that, that's, my work is my hobby [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Uh-huh. That
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] So I, I enjoy it.
[speaker001:] sounds great [LAUGHTER]. Uh, who is your, whose your favorite religious author?
[speaker002:] Well, I don't know if I have a favorite
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] uh, religious author. I would have to say that, uh, some of the ones that consistently put out good materials,
[speaker001:] [Rustling].
[speaker002:] uh, you know, that, that's difficult because [lipsmack] one person might write one book extremely well and some other ones might not write as well.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Uh, I had to stop here and think a second. One of the ones that I've read recently that I've read several of his books and I thought that each one of his books were good. He's the man out of San Antonio. And, uh,
[speaker001:] Max Lucado? [Noise].
[speaker002:] Max Lucado.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] Max consistently writes good books.
[speaker001:] Yeah. Uh, he's a great man. I've met him several times. Uh,
[speaker002:] Yes. I know him, yeah.
[speaker001:] Huh.
[speaker002:] [Throat clearing] But
[speaker001:] Uh
[speaker002:] uh, there's other authors also that have uh, uh, that write good books from time to time, but not consistently put out the materials all the time [sniffing].
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Uh, I'd say another, which is a local writer here in Plano, uh, is, uh, I'm trying to think of his name. He's with the Bible church. And that is, uh, [pause], I see his name but I can't, I mean I see him but I can't see his name [LAUGHTER] [sniffing]. But he, uh, he talks about, uh, he talks about a lot of different topics and,

[speaker001:] Yeah, the question was, uh, what kind of books do you read for entertainment, uh, uh, [LAUGHTER] I guess,
[speaker002:] Oh, I just read for escape.
[speaker001:] Okay [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Well, I mean it's,
[speaker001:] With two little kids I can understand that.
[speaker002:] Yes. It's that's simple. I read to escape, and I don't read any PARENTS magazines either.
[speaker001:] Oh [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] So.
[speaker001:] What, uh, what kind of,
[speaker002:] Well, I just finished, just, I just finished one last night. A great book. It, it's very, a typical for my reading though but a great book, one called, THE THINGS THEY CARRIED by Tim O'Brien.
[speaker001:] Huh.
[speaker002:] And it's, uh, God I don't know if I would call it a collection of Vietnam war stories or if I'd call it a collection of Vietnam love stories.
[speaker001:] Oh.
[speaker002:] Strange book. Beautifully written.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Just beautifully written.
[speaker001:] By, uh, somebody who was there or,
[speaker002:] Yeah, a guy who was there as a, uh, foot soldier.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] So, he considered himself to be, you know, a, a true Vietnam soldier.
[speaker001:] Yeah. Well, any of the guys that were ground yes. Yeah, I can imagine.
[speaker002:] Yeah. So, what's the latest one you've read?
[speaker001:] Well, I tell you what, I'm a kind of, uh, a history nut. I'm trying to think back now, I read an awful lot of, uh, periodicals and, uh, you know, almost what you call reference books.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] And, uh, the last, uh, I'm embarrassed to say the last, you know, honest to gosh, cover to cover book that I read, I cannot, right offhand, I tried to read, uh, one of the, the Michener, uh, LONE STAR or the, the TEXAS HISTORY BOOK.
[speaker002:] I have never been able to make it through any of Michener's work.
[speaker001:] Oh, well, I've had similar problems. It does tend to, to,
[speaker002:] Have you, are you a Civil War buff at all?
[speaker001:] Yeah, as a matter of fact, yeah [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Because I finished one, I think this is like two years ago, and somebody had given me one of these dinky do, crappy women's novels set in the Civil War, John Jakes with,
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] and the novel didn't do that much for me. But, boy, the period of time was fascinating.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] So, I then read, was it BATTLE CRY OF FREEDOM,
[speaker001:] [Very faint] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] or, yeah, I think it was BATTLE CRY OF FREEDOM.
[speaker001:] BATTLE CRY OF FREEDOM.
[speaker002:] It's kind of like a historical compendium,
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] of the Civil War, and it's not a story of the Civil War, it's a story of all the politics and, uh, lobbying and just basically state by state events,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] that lead to the events that brought about the Civil War. And it's fascinating because I had always, you know, been raised on this, you know, Emancipation Proclamation with the Civil War.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh. There was a lot more to it than that, weren't there?
[speaker002:] There was a lot more to it than that. As a matter of fact that was a very minor part that kind of become like an afterthought.
[speaker001:] Yeah, well, it was a political move.
[speaker002:] Oh, yeah.
[speaker001:] It was made to placate some of the northern support but not completely alienate all the southern support because, you know, it was, uh, if you read it, it only emancipated those who were in areas, uh, in rebellion against the United States. All the other areas which would, I think at that time would have included West Virginia and, oh, may have been Kentucky, a few states, you know, that were not part of the South but still had slaves.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] They didn't emancipate them.
[speaker002:] Well, you know what else really surprised me, now I'm married to a native Texan and I'm not.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Uh,
[speaker001:] I've got the same problem [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] yeah, I'm glad you put it that way.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] And I have two native Texan children too.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] My husband is always, you know, talked about th-, Texas being a, uh, rebel state.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And, {F oh, my God, } all this Civil War pride. I kept waiting for, where's some reference to this goddamn State of Texas and the role that they played either leading up to or in the Civil War.
[speaker001:] Mayb-, isn't much there, was there?
[speaker002:] They might as well have not even been there.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] You know, they weren't a state and the only, the only way that they had any part in it was after worth as to, you know, who's going to be going there. And I keep telling my husband that, and he keeps saying, oh, no. I thought, okay.
[speaker001:] They supplied some, uh, you know, they were some groups of it, the Vicksburg, if you ever get a chance to go over to Vicksburg, the battleground at Vicksburg, uh, there's an area there where there was, uh, some Texas, uh, groups and they had an interesting time there.
[speaker002:] Oh, I'll bet they did.
[speaker001:] And down there at Sabine Pass, uh, I can't think of the guy's name but he held off, uh, you know, just he and a handful of guys managed to hold off the whole Union navy for a while from coming up the Sabine River which was of no consequence but still is an interesting story.
[speaker002:] Well, you know, why they actually held them off? None of the Yankees wanted to listen to their kind of luted grammar [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] That could be it [LAUGHTER], could be it.
[speaker002:] Now, you didn't hear me say that. Outside of, uh,
[speaker001:] And then the last Civil War battle was fought at Val Verde, you know, over there on the Texas border you had a lot of, of groups heading for Mexico and they were cut off at the pass more or less, at Eagle Pass. And they didn't get across the river there so they're, the last, and that was actually after the war was over but it was the last,
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] organized battle between the two units was in Texas, so.
[speaker002:] Oh.
[speaker001:] Yeah, Texas participation in the Civil War was, uh, minor at, uh, [LAUGHTER] it's been,
[speaker002:] Boy, don't tell that to a native Texan though,
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] I mean, my god, they fought and won the whole thing.
[speaker001:] Yeah, well, my wife's from Galveston, so.
[speaker002:] Oh.
[speaker001:] Yeah. Well, I'm from New Mexico so, you know, I was [LAUGHTER],
[speaker002:] That's a beautiful state. That's a beautiful state. See I was raised in the Midwest which,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] you know, hell, we didn't even, you know, we didn't even know where the Mason Dixon Line was, and besides, you know, if corn didn't grow there,
[speaker001:] [Very faint] Huh.
[speaker002:] it didn't matter.
[speaker001:] It sounds like Iowa or something.
[speaker002:] Iowa and Nebraska.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Yep. And then I had probably lived the last eleven years in Massachusetts so, you know.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] What does that make me, an honorary Yankee or,
[speaker001:] Yeah, on, yeah.
[speaker002:] God knows what.
[speaker001:] Oh, well, my sister's living in Illinois right now, so [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Well then, she's going to come out well rounded.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] But outside of those kind of things, you know, the other thing that I've really gotten into reading, and I think this is because the kids are getting to me,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] is science fiction.
[speaker001:] I've always kind of enjoyed it. I, I used to read a lot more than I do now.
[speaker002:] Well, I've gone to the point where my husband, my husband travels, I get out like, you know, two or three books.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And I, I'm trying to think of, oh, Isaac Asimov, ROBOT series.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] I mean, I think I've read all four of them and I understand that there's a fifth.
[speaker001:] [Very faint] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] In the last [LAUGHTER] six weeks he's been on the road a lot.
[speaker001:] I just turned around and looked at my brief, at my briefcase, my, uh, bookcase up here and I see ARMAGEDDON up there. And, uh, the SHADOW OF BLOOMING GROVE and TWO THOUSAND AND TEN and GRANT TAKES COMMAND and THE WAR IN THE YEAR [LAUGHTER], oh, SPACE that was the one I was trying to wade through was SPACE, James Michener. Didn't get very far on that.
[speaker002:] You know, I think I read HAWAII,
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] when I was about ten years old or so.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] Which is about the developmental level that, you know, you need to be at to read those things, and I still even then I was so, so disgusted with it I, I tried to read, I don't remember which other one it was, whatever one it was it was such a blockbuster seller.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] And I just, I got about like a hundred pages through it and realized I had like a thousand more, I thought, I can't do this.
[speaker001:] Yeah, it really the, the books are kind of, uh, imposing to say the least.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] No, let's see, here's one called GHOST TOWNS AND MINING CAMPS OF NEW MEXICO now, not too many people have read that one I don't think.
[speaker002:] No.
[speaker001:] And there's THE HISTORY OF YOAKUM COUNTY, TEXAS there.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] I've got, uh,
[speaker002:] Is that a big, thick book?
[speaker001:] Yeah, and I've got, yeah, and I've got a HISTORY OF KINGSLEY, IOWA.
[speaker002:] What the, what the hell for? Why Kingsley, Iowa?
[speaker001:] Well, because that's where my folks all came from.
[speaker002:] Oh, okay.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] And they had a centennial here awhile back. I read the GRANT TAKES COMMAND, that was pretty good.
[speaker002:] Well,
[speaker001:] That was part of that trilogy that, uh,
[speaker002:] Now that's one that,
[speaker001:] Bruce Canton did.
[speaker002:] That's one I don't know. See, I had never really been into science fiction that much until, uh, somebody gave me MIST OF AVALON probably about five or six years ago.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] I don't know if I'd call it science fiction or fantasy.
[speaker001:] Sometimes it's awful hard, some of those get very philosophical they can be in any setting, they just happen to put them in a futuristic setting, you know, the,
[speaker002:] Well, I loved that novel. And then somebody said, oh, God, this would have been even long ago because I was in Boston and it was raining all night, and I had a hole in my roof and I was waiting for the whole house to collapse,
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] and, uh, I was reading DUNE.
[speaker001:] Oh.
[speaker002:] Which seeming rather ironic.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] And I read the whole damn book while I was home hauling out, you know, like ten-gallon buckets of, of water and waiting for the roof to collapse and,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh, you're reading DUNE.
[speaker002:] reading about these guys wearing their little free man still suits and,
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] I think that's probably my favorite of, of any piece of science fiction that I've ever read.
[speaker001:] That was a movie too, wasn't it?
[speaker002:] And the movie was awful.
[speaker001:] Was it?
[speaker002:] Oh, yes, it was just terrible.
[speaker001:] Yeah, I'd, I didn't see it but, uh, yeah.
[speaker002:] It was, it was beyond, uh,
[speaker001:] Patrick Stewart was in that. I guess the guy that's on the new STAR TREK series was in that thing, uh [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] I don't know, I just remember Sting was in it.
[speaker001:] Oh, really? [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Yeah, and if you were trying to follow any type of, uh, plot, it, it total-, even having read the book, and I've read that book probably three times,
[speaker001:] [Very faint] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] watching that movie, I couldn't figure out,
[speaker001:] Couldn't,
[speaker002:] what they were talking about,
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] at all.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] I was real disappointed in that. Well, I'll tell you another good book, do you like scary things?
[speaker001:] Um, well, some history,
[speaker002:] Have you,
[speaker001:] books are pretty scary, but, yeah [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] That's true. Have you read, THE SILENCE OF THE LAMBS?
[speaker001:] No. Somebody who,
[speaker002:] Oh.
[speaker001:] saw the movie here the other day told me it was the most terrifying thing they'd ever seen, they didn't sleep all night.
[speaker002:] Well, see I, I am debating whether or not I want to go see the movie after having read the book.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] I mean the book is, is chilling.
[speaker001:] Yeah, I have,
[speaker002:] Just chilling.
[speaker001:] no, uh, I don't have the foggiest notion what it's about, so.
[speaker002:] Then I won't tell you.
[speaker001:] Okay, yeah [LAUGHTER]. But,
[speaker002:] It's just that if you're ever, ever really want to just be scared out of your wits,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh, that's the one.
[speaker002:] That's the one. Yes.
[speaker001:] Even better than JAWS and some of that?
[speaker002:] Yes, because the cat-, the, the character that is so horrible is another human being. And you're just drawn into his, his horror,
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] of him that you,
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] begin to kind of like him.
[speaker001:] Oh.
[speaker002:] I mean,
[speaker001:] A, a Freddy Kruger type, huh?
[speaker002:] No, no. This guy's smart and he's suave and he's all the charac-, all the,
[speaker001:] Oh the worst kind, yeah,
[speaker002:] characteristics,
[speaker001:] yeah.
[speaker002:] yeah, all the characteristics...

[speaker001:] Okay, uh, could you tell me what you think contributes most to, uh, air pollution?
[speaker002:] Well, it's hard to say. I mean, while it's certainly the case that things like automobiles and factories, uh, pollute a lot, uh, if you look at how much pollution is say kicked up by an active volcano, uh, it's certainly less than clear that anything man can do in this sort of scale of things has much effect at all. What do you think?
[speaker001:] Um, well, you talked about, uh, volcanos. I'm not sure how many active volcanos there are now, and, and what the amount of material that they do, uh, put into the atmosphere. I think probably the greatest cause is, uh, vehicles,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] especially around cities. Um, uh, do you live right in the city itself?
[speaker002:] No, I'm more out in the suburbs, but I certainly work near a city.
[speaker001:] Okay, so ca-,
[speaker002:] How about you?
[speaker001:] Can you notice, well it's, it's, I live in a rural area.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] It's mainly farms and, uh, no heavy industry. Attleboro, itself, I live in Rhode Island.
[speaker002:] Oh, I see.
[speaker001:] And, it's in the north, I live up in the, uh, northeast corner and Attleboro sits in just over the line,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] where T I's plant is, but there isn't a lot of heavy industry. There's the freeways and we get an occasional, it depends which way the wind's blowing from Boston, cause we're like forty miles south of Boston, so we'll pick up that. And, uh, I've noticed over the past say, maybe five or six years, uh, we live about twenty miles away from the state airport and I notice that the fly patterns now of the jets are getting bigger, they're swinging wider so that now they are coming over, over our homes.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] And, it seems like, uh, we're catching all that residue. I'm not sure if it's kerosene or what that's dropping. But, other than that, you know, we don't have the, unless we're catching it from the midwest, the emissions.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] You know from the power plants. Um.
[speaker002:] You mean like from the coal.
[speaker001:] Yeah, yeah, we generate, one of our, our biggest electrical plants in Rhode Island uses coal to, uh,
[speaker002:] Um,
[speaker001:] generate electricity. Um, there doesn't seem to be much emission from them, but I'm not sure about the rest of the country.
[speaker002:] Yeah, I notice locally a major problem is Kodak. Um, it's interesting because in order to, uh, keep with the E P A standards which, which tend to be visible, uh, what's coming out of your smokestack, they do all their emissions at night. Uh, so people get up,
[speaker001:] Okay, well, is that right? [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Yeah, people get up in the morning in that neighborhood and they've got this black ash on their cars,
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] which, you know, seems to be,
[speaker001:] Yeah, surprise, surprise.
[speaker002:] Yeah, I mean, I really think that if the E P A had anything on the ball they'd go in there with a few phosphorous grenades, light up the sky, photograph the emissions at that point, and, uh, you know,
[speaker001:] Yeah. There, there must be, uh, uh, some of the, some of the, uh, larger plants up, uh, up around one hundred twenty-eight.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Um, we've got reports that, uh, during the night seems like they'd blow off their, their stacks from, uh,
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] the warehouses, for powerhouses,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and, they do that at night too, because,
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] employees been complaining that the cars have been pitted, and, you know, spots all over them.
[speaker002:] Yeah, yeah.
[speaker001:] So, you're right, they could do something a-. about, about that, I guess.
[speaker002:] Yeah. That seems a little ridiculous.
[speaker001:] How are your, uh, your lakes, and, uh,
[speaker002:] Oh they've been getting cleaner.
[speaker001:] They have?
[speaker002:] Sure. But, um, yeah, I'm not sure how much the water pollution is, is directly related to the air pollution, other than acid rain, yeah,
[speaker001:] Acid rain, yeah, that's, that's what I was, uh,
[speaker002:] I mean the stuff I've read recently in Technology Review basically indicates that acid rain may be a little bit, uh, overstated. That a lot of the die off they've seen in forests may not really be due to acid rain at all. Um, ye-, I'm not an expert.
[speaker001:] Yeah, no. Didn't they just have an article, oh, on, uh, they were dumping lime.
[speaker002:] Up here?
[speaker001:] Up, upstate New York somewhere,
[speaker002:] I haven't read that.
[speaker001:] over huge areas,
[speaker002:] Oh yeah.
[speaker001:] and they thought that was more beneficial because, you know it, it, some of it does soak in and some of it runs off right away into the, in to the streams and rivers and some of the fish were supposedly making a comeback.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] I can't remember where I, I read that recently somewhere, and I can't remember where.
[speaker002:] Yeah, that's interesti-,
[speaker001:] But I, I thought it was up there. So, that's interesting because New Hampshire,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and parts of Vermont, um, they showed pictures of, of extensive tree damage that they attributed to acid rain.
[speaker002:] Um.
[speaker001:] Um, you kind of think it's something else then?
[speaker002:] Well, that's what the environmentalists were claiming in this article. So that,
[speaker001:] Oh, they didn't say, they didn't say what though, they just said they thought it was,
[speaker002:] They didn't say what, they just said they thought acid rain's contribution may be less than was previously suspected. Um, that it may be other natural things at work. Um,
[speaker001:] Uh, natural disease,
[speaker002:] Yeah, so it's, it's less than clear. Like I said, I don't remember the article that well.
[speaker001:] Yeah, yeah.
[speaker002:] But, um, I don't know, I mean, what do you think we can, uh, I guess as individuals or as a group, do about, uh, air pollution? [pause].
[speaker001:] Uh, we can demand, uh, more efficient automobiles for one thing. I still think that's, that's, uh, one of our major causes of pollutants.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Uh, how we go about that, it's uh, uh, it's a little bit difficult.
[speaker002:] I think it's up to individuals too, to ask automakers for,
[speaker001:] Yeah,
[speaker002:] for less pollutant vehicles.
[speaker001:] Yeah, you ne-, yo-, ne-, I think you need a, a vehicle something like, uh, Ralph Nader, Nader's Raiders, or,
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] where, uh, or, uh, uh, A A R P, which has a lot of members.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Uh, if you can get those types of groups.
[speaker002:] Do you really think that new vehicles though is a big problem. I mean, I remember reading an article that said like, it's, uh, the older polluters, the, the twelve and fifteen year old cars, you know, contribute like ninety percent,
[speaker001:] Yeah,
[speaker002:] of the automobile pollution and the new cars it's hardly is, hardly anything.
[speaker001:] Yeah, they're better, but how about all the trucks and buses that are out there. Uh, when was the last time you saw a truck that didn't belch, smoke, or, uh,
[speaker002:] Yeah, but doesn't that just mean they're out of tune.
[speaker001:] Uh, I'm not really sure. You think that, that, that the, uh, the trucking indus-, industry is that, uh, incompetent, that they wouldn't, you know, fuel is, is one of their biggest costs.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] So, you would,
[speaker002:] But diesel engines.
[speaker001:] Yeah, diesel engines.
[speaker002:] It, you know, it's, it, I mean, they do generate a lot of soot but that at least, that kind of particulate comes out of the air pretty quickly.
[speaker001:] Yeah. Yeah. We could also, uh, push for legislation for, uh, rapid transit systems. This country seems to be a little behind on that.
[speaker002:] Yeah. On the other hand most people don't use rapid transit because it's so inconvenient.
[speaker001:] Um, yeah, but only because we got used to, uh, single person, single car,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] driving. A lot of people don't even like to carpool.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] But we could that. That'll help,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] pollution, air pollution, The, uh, United States and Canada are I guess, is, is, going into, uh, some types of agreements to limit, uh, what's being given out by power plants,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] I guess Canada's quite concerned that we're sending a lot of our stuff up there,
[speaker002:] Yeah, sure.
[speaker001:] So that's helping.
[speaker002:] Well, what do you think about like a device, a meter right on a tail pipe and you pay the tax based on how much you polluted?
[speaker001:] Now that's an idea. don't say that too loud though because, uh, every city and town will have a meter on your [LAUGHTER] tail pipe generating generating revenue,
[speaker002:] Well, it just means if you don't pollute, right, or you pollute very little you don't have to pay any tax or you just buy one of these things and it, it, uh, maybe you, you could probably devise them so it slowly closed off your tail pipe and, uh, the less you pollute the longer the devise lasts and if you pollute a lot then it closed off your tail pipe and you couldn't start your car anymore.
[speaker001:] That's a, that's an interesting concept. Is that your idea?
[speaker002:] Yeah, but, uh, you know, it's, uh, I guess the difficulty would be to, that somebody could obviously just take it right off the tail pipe again so you probably would have to build it right into the muffler or something.
[speaker001:] Well I was going to say, right. You could put it in, you could, you could, it could be installed like a catalytic converter.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] I mean I guess you could take those off too but,
[speaker002:] You could take ca-, but mufflers would be a little more obvious if you took that off.
[speaker001:] Yeah, if you can take a muffler off and only replace, well not unless it was built into every muffler.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] And that's.
[speaker002:] But if you was talking about something which was more or less universal that, uh, busses and any kind of vehicle,
[speaker001:] [throat clearing]
[speaker002:] had to pay a pollution tax, uh, this would penalize the heavy polluters and not penalize the light polluters,
[speaker001:] That's a, that's quite a concept. You should, uh, pursue that I think, or patent it, [LAUGHTER] you know.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] Yeah, patent it, that's a good idea.
[speaker001:] If you could come up with a device that's the thing.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] But it shouldn't be too hard to do something like that. But that's a, that's a thought. No,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] you're right and that will solve, uh, a lot of problems. I don't know if you, uh, if you approached the automobile industry if they would be too keen on installing something like that.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Uh, but you know a proposal to, uh, uh, I guess the proper authorities,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] well you might, uh, generate some
[speaker002:] Yeah, the automobile regulatory agencies or something.
[speaker001:] yeah, you might generate some interest in it. But that's, that's a good idea. Other than that I'm not sure what, what individuals can do other than like I said get involved through a group or an organization.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.

[speaker001:] Okay, now then you heard the question, what
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] what do you like to do for yourself in car automobile repairs?
[speaker002:] Well, I'll tell you, I used to do a lot more repairs when cars were easy to work on, than I do now.
[speaker001:] Okay.
[speaker002:] I do, uh, I do the easy stuff now. I change oil, uh, and then what some people would consider a little more difficult, I, I'll change spark plugs and
[speaker001:] Um.
[speaker002:] I'll change, you know, points and, you, you know, do air filters, that kind of stuff.
[speaker001:] Well.
[speaker002:] But, uh, I can't do as much as I used to, um, I used to do a whole lot more, but not any more, they're just too weird to work on now.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Is that the reason you're not doing it, or are you so busy you don't have time to do it?
[speaker002:] Well, that's part of it
[speaker001:] Uh.
[speaker002:] yeah, part of it is, like you said, I don't have time.
[speaker001:] Okay. Well being a female and being alone, you, I don't do anything but put gasoline,
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] in my car, and let someone else check the oil even.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] But, uh, have you had any major repairs recently?
[speaker002:] Well, um, on this car I've got now, no, but I had a van before, and it was only two years old, and it had transmission go out on it.
[speaker001:] Oh.
[speaker002:] But fortunately that was covered under the warranty.
[speaker001:] Okay. Well, you should be, feel very fortunate. I had to have a transmission replaced in an eighty-six automobile
[speaker002:] Um.
[speaker001:] and I'll declare, that's an expensive.
[speaker002:] Oh, yeah.
[speaker001:] Yes, uh-huh.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Maybe I should have just traded the car in.
[speaker002:] Yeah, sometimes it makes you wonder.
[speaker001:] Oh, it just, well, I have a very comfortable car
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and I have a health problem that I need a large comfortable car.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] So, um, anyway, I have a new transmission,
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] and I'm sure that any of them would have cost al-, or charged me almost the same amount. But
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] it hurts,
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] it hurts real bad.
[speaker002:] Did you take it to a dealership?
[speaker001:] No, I took it to an independent
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] out in Garland.
[speaker002:] Oh, I see.
[speaker001:] I had, um, these people were recommended by a neighbor
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and, you know, that's the only thing, I am not a native of Dallas.
[speaker002:] Oh, I see.
[speaker001:] So that means I have to depend on, on trustworthy friends
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] and that's. Anyway, it's fixed, it's running, and I pray that I get my thirteen hundred dollars out of it.
[speaker002:] Oh, gosh.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] It's going to run for a li-, for a while yet.
[speaker001:] Oh, I know it.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] It certainly is frightening. What work are you in?
[speaker002:] Uh, I, I work for T I.
[speaker001:] Oh.
[speaker002:] I, I work in the networking area.
[speaker001:] Okay, okay.
[speaker002:] Do you work for T I?
[speaker001:] No.
[speaker002:] No, okay.
[speaker001:] No, I have just retired from, um, the Southwest Medical Center.
[speaker002:] Oh.
[speaker001:] Yeah, where there are a lot of people down there that could help me with my car, but they're all too busy. So.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] Yeah.
[speaker001:] I have to [LAUGHTER] do it the other way, and that's find someone and pay them to do it.
[speaker002:] Yeah, yeah.
[speaker001:] So I certainly hope you have a nice New Year.
[speaker002:] Oh, yeah, I'm, I'm planning on it. Oh, it can't be any worse than last year, that's for sure.
[speaker001:] Oh, it could be,
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] but I don't much think so [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Yeah. That's true, that's true.
[speaker001:] I'm, well, we're starting out a new one, so let's make it a good one.
[speaker002:] Yeah, I'm going to try and plan on it.
[speaker001:] Okay.
[speaker002:] All right, well, I enjoyed the conversation.
[speaker001:] Thank you.
[speaker002:] All right, thank you.
[speaker001:] Bye. Bye-bye.
[speaker002:] Bye-bye.

[speaker001:] How would you go about organizing a family reunion?
[speaker002:] Well, a-, for, I grew up in the deep south like south Alabama. So whenever I think of family reunions, my family, like, got together almost every week.
[speaker001:] Oh, gee.
[speaker002:] And there would be like thirty people. So people talk about, you know, big family reunions and I think, like I have a friend who just went to, like, Wyoming to some big ranch, you know, where like there were four hundred people
[speaker001:] Oh, my.
[speaker002:] for their family reunion. And I, so I mean, how I would go about doing it is I would just call all my [NOISE] relatives.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Because I, since I came from, my father has, uh, five sisters and two brothers and my mother has four brothers and two sisters. So I ca-, both of my parents had big families, and we always wer-, we always got together, just always. Now it's different because I live here and I, you know, when I go home I try to see the families, as much of the family as I can but
[speaker001:] Yes.
[speaker002:] it's real different. And I grew up in a real not, I think not normal setting.
[speaker001:] With all of you living so close together.
[speaker002:] Right. I mean Sunday dinner was at my grandmother's and, you know, like I said there would be thirty, you know, thirty people, and everyone would just bring things and
[speaker001:] Oh.
[speaker002:] my grandmother would cook and cook and cook. And i-,
[speaker001:] Well, I come from a very small family. And we planned a family reunion this spring. Uh, where we are from Texas and my family is from Ohio and we met in Florida.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] So the seven of us went on a cruise and then went to Disney together. So that's all the family, so planning our family reunio-, reunion was very easy [LAUGHTER], you know.
[speaker002:] Yeah, I guess so. It really sounds like it was fun.
[speaker001:] Yeah, well, we had a wonderful tim-,

[speaker001:] where have you been on a wonderful vacation
[speaker002:] well normally when we go on vacation we go home to Colorado
[speaker001:] oh that's where we go home too
[speaker002:] really yeah Colorado Springs is where we're from
[speaker001:] that's where we go
[speaker002:] how funny
[speaker001:] yes my husband's family lives just off of Academy Boulevard at Maizeland yes
[speaker002:] really we live up up uh Lake in the Broadmoor area
[speaker001:] ah
[speaker002:] where my family my in-laws are
[speaker001:] oh we've been there we haven't skied at Broadmoor we went there last year at Christmas time and it was twenty seven below so we had to cancel our ski lessons
[speaker002:] oh uh-huh as you can't even ski there anymore
[speaker001:] really
[speaker002:] yeah they closed it down
[speaker001:] oh just this year
[speaker002:] uh-huh they don't have enough money to keep it going it doesn't doesn't pay so
[speaker001:] oh my ah so that wouldn't be a good spot to go on a vacation now if you were a skier
[speaker002:] well yeah and well now I don't know now Colorado Springs is real accessible to like Breckenridge it's only a couple of hours away and uh so it's it might not be too bad if you wanted to go skiing somewhere else but you can't can't ski up there any more so
[speaker001:] uh-huh no
[speaker002:] oh uh I'd like to go on vacation I can't my husband and I wanna go to Florida to go to Disney World but we have two little ones that are under two right now so we wanna wait until they're a little bit older to do that and uh
[speaker001:] uh-huh yes oh well we went on a family cruise last year on the Premier Family Cruise Line and then we went to Disney it was all part of the package
[speaker002:] oh
[speaker001:] and on the cruise ship they had Mickey and Minnie and Chip and Dale and Goofy and Donald Duck and it was really oriented toward little kids
[speaker002:] well how fun
[speaker001:] so the kids could eat with Chip and Dale you know and you know it's just a lot of fun
[speaker002:] oh yeah oh I bet
[speaker001:] so then we were on the cruise for three days in the Bahamas and then landed at Cape Canaveral and then drove over to Orlando and spent four days at Disney
[speaker002:] wow well that sounds pretty neat
[speaker001:] yes that was the way to travel
[speaker002:] yeah that sounds pretty good and it was all a big package deal where you just pay one price and get everything
[speaker001:] yes yes that's right that's right and kids are really cheaper too
[speaker002:] really
[speaker001:] we really lucked out because the ship we were supposed to be on developed engine trouble two days before our cruise so they said we could either cancel reschedule or take whatever was available so we took whatever was available and we left a day early and they put us up at the Cocoa Beach Hilton and the ship that was available the only uh rooms that hadn't been booked were the suites
[speaker002:] wow
[speaker001:] so we got the suites at the same price as a regular cabin
[speaker002:] oh what a deal
[speaker001:] yeah so then our cruise was actually extended a day and our Disney was extended a day so we turned a seven day trip into ten
[speaker002:] great
[speaker001:] and they paid for everything
[speaker002:] well that's great oh
[speaker001:] yes so that was a wonderful vacation
[speaker002:] yeah I bet uh that sounds like the way I'd wanna do it I think
[speaker001:] yes well what kind of things do you like to do when you go to Colorado
[speaker002:] oh well we like to ski of course so we spend so much time with our families uh and seeing our friends because we moved to Texas about two years ago
[speaker001:] yes
[speaker002:] so when we go back we are just jam packed full of people to see and things to do so we don't we don't get a lot of time to just vacation we did um last year though go to San Antonio for Memorial Day
[speaker001:] yeah oh
[speaker002:] which was fun just to get to kind of walk around and see the sights down there and do that kind of thing
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] uh but you know other other than that with with both my kids being under two it's real hard to do any any kind of
[speaker001:] right that would be
[speaker002:] events that that uh don't require babysitting
[speaker001:] yes I know I think one of the places I always hit in Colorado is that current outlet store
[speaker002:] yeah that's funny you should funny you should mention that I just got my catalog this morning and was looking through it
[speaker001:] that's what oh with the Santa Claus on the cover yes I've already ordered from that one but we will probably be going up at Thanksgiving this year so
[speaker002:] uh-huh  oh do you live where do you what state are you in
[speaker001:] Texas
[speaker002:] oh you're in Texas
[speaker001:] yes I'm in the Dallas area
[speaker002:] so am I
[speaker001:] in Plano
[speaker002:] I'm in Garland yeah
[speaker001:] uh so that's not too far
[speaker002:] I talked to somebody from Wisconsin or something the other day yeah so I guess they get people from all over yeah driving for Thanksgiving that's going to be quite a drive for
[speaker001:] oh yes well it was when we left last year we left on the eighteenth right before that big snow storm hit Colorado and we pulled in just as it hit
[speaker002:] uh-huh wow
[speaker001:] so how do you go do you go up through the Raton Pass when you go up there
[speaker002:] uh no Raton uh oh well wait a minute yeah we do we do
[speaker001:] do you that's on like Route 287 or something like that
[speaker002:] yeah um-hum and then we go straight up through Trinidad and straight up I-25 from there
[speaker001:] okay okay we uh went a different way when we went last Christmas because of bad weather and because we were pulling a little U-Haul trailer because we had to take our dog in the car there was no room for luggage so we went all interstate we went up um through Oklahoma City
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] and then up through uh Kansas and then turned left and went in on I-70
[speaker002:] oh
[speaker001:] and it wound up only taking us about an extra hour it was a little more mile wise
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] but because you could go sixty five miles an hour on the

[speaker001:] What do you like to watch on television?
[speaker002:] Well, I guess a lot of the, uh, something that's kind of more of a comedy. We do have, uh, cable, and we have premium stations like H B O and Showtime and such, and I guess a lot of times when I first turn the T V on, I, I normally go to those, because I pay for them [LAUGHTER]
[speaker001:] Yes [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] I guess I, I want to see if there's anything I really want to see there, so I don't end up watching the, um, prime time on some of the standard channels as much, I tend to go to my premium channels first,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh, uh-huh. Well we have cable, but we only have Cinemax, and
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] uh, I think our favorite night is, uh, Monday night, and we start out with EVENING SHADE
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and MAJOR DAD, and
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] I think that's the one night that we really try to watch television. You know
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] my husband's always got it on. I'm not always sitting down, and,
[speaker002:] Monday night's pretty good with MURPHY BROWN
[speaker001:] Yes.
[speaker002:] and DESIGNING WOMEN.
[speaker001:] Yes, yes. I just, I love that, all those, that two hours
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and, uh, now tonight I just finished up with that A WOMAN CALLED JACKIE, did you watch
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] did you watch it?
[speaker002:] We had watched it, uh, I guess Sunday night and Monday night, but we didn't get to watch it tonight.
[speaker001:] Yeah, it, it was pretty good, it, uh, sometimes I like a dramatization, and I like, uh, U S A, when they had their, uh, uh, mystery movies and things, their
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] made for T V movies
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and, uh, I like those. We very seldom watch any, uh, Public Television, Channel Thirteen. Do you watch it much?
[speaker002:] The only night we tend to watch some of that is on Sunday nights, starting fairly late, like I'm talking ten o'clock and maybe toward midnight. They have some British comedy
[speaker001:] Yes.
[speaker002:] that we've, we've really liked, and there's a variety. Some of them is, uh, BLACK ADDER or GOOD NEIGHBORS or YES, PRIME MINISTER and ARE YOU BEING SERVED?
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] They, they rotate those around, and, um, we like that British comedy. British comedy is very fast, you really have to
[speaker001:] Yes
[speaker002:] listen
[speaker001:] it is. *should this be two slash units?
[speaker002:] but.
[speaker001:] Now we haven't watched any of those.
[speaker002:] They're real good, but they do come on kind of late, but we really do enjoy those. Sometimes we get to watching some stuff on the Discovery Channel.
[speaker001:] Yes, now we have watched some things on that.
[speaker002:] And I'm amazed sometimes what I see on there. But I'm very intrigued. I, one time I was watching an operation, and I thought, Gee,
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] I don't believe I'm watching.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Yeah, we had, uh, I don't know, my husband loves to, uh, that male syndrome of flicking that channel, so, [LAUGHTER] you know, and he's sit in front of it and, and he went by and he said, Whoops, and he backed up, and, you know, there's this surgery going on as we're eating our dinner [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] you know, and I'm saying let's move right on [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Yeah, right, right,
[speaker001:] But our grandchildren like that Discovery Channel
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] if they're over here, because lots of times it will have things on, uh, animals
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and they just thoroughly, you know, enjoy that
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] in fact, I think they were watching something on, uh, whales, or killer sh-, sharks, one or the other
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] couple of weeks ago over here
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and, uh, so we have watched that
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and, uh, otherwise, of course my husband's into the football
[speaker002:] Oh.
[speaker001:] and, [inhaling] you know, I will watch that some if I'm reading or doing something else, you know
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] with him.
[speaker002:] Yeah, I'm not into watching sports. Now my husband likes to watch football, he's not really into, uh, baseball or basketball too much, but, uh, football, soon as it's fall, then he likes
[speaker001:] Yes.
[speaker002:] to watch college on Saturday, and then of course Cowboys on Sunday.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Yes, and sometimes now we're getting that, uh, the other football where they play it inside, and you know, this is a, you know, this is too much [LAUGHTER],
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Saturdays and Sunday, this is fine, but do we have to carry this on into the summer and the spring [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] you know, all of that, and, uh, but he will, uh, he'll flip around, I think the other night we had on, uh, uh, it was a, it was car races, some kind of car races where they were bumping over hills and flying into the air and coming down. I don't know what channel he found that on
[speaker002:] Um.
[speaker001:] and, uh, but he will turn that on, especially for, if, again, if our, uh, oldest grandson is over here. He's ten
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and, uh, they'll find something like that and just absolutely sit glued to it, I, you know,
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] I keep telling them it's the same mentality [LAUGHTER] you know, and something's wrong, and, uh, but, uh, and we very seldom watch television on a Friday night or Saturday night, because we're not home
[speaker002:] Oh.
[speaker001:] and, uh, so, and Sundays, uh, we usually have, all of our kids are over on Sunday, so, you know, we don't get into that, except that sometimes we'll get into their home videos
[speaker002:] Um.
[speaker001:] do you ever watch that?
[speaker002:] Yeah, the, you mean talking about the funny home videos and stuff
[speaker001:] Yeah, uh-huh
[speaker002:] yeah, those are pretty good
[speaker001:] that are sometimes so dumb [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] but true to life, I mean, some of the,
[speaker001:] But very true to life, I mean, I've seen our family in several of those situations [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].

[speaker001:] What are your m-, music interests?
[speaker002:] Uh, just about any kind of music except acid rock [static],
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] I, I don't care,
[speaker001:] Me, too.
[speaker002:] for acid rock,
[speaker001:] Oh.
[speaker002:] but, uh, I grew up with country and western,
[speaker001:] Yeah, I did, too,
[speaker002:] but, uh,
[speaker001:] and then,
[speaker002:] just about any kind of music. I even like classical music.
[speaker001:] Yeah, uh, I'm pretty diversified, too. I, I don't, I don't like acid rock either. I, [sniffing] I grew up in a small town so, uh, the only, [static] we only had one radio station so it was country music,
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] but then, uh, when I,
[speaker002:] Yeah, I grew up with Hank Snow, and Lefty Frizzell [static] and Hank Williams and all of those old country and western songs.
[speaker001:] [Static] Oh, really. You're older than I am [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] But, uh, I, did you happen to see last night the special on Channel Two with James Galway?
[speaker001:] We don't get Channel Two. My,
[speaker002:] Oh.
[speaker001:] uh, our cable doesn't, I wish we got that what, but,
[speaker002:] That is fabulous.
[speaker001:] Was it? Well,
[speaker002:] We,
[speaker001:] we don't get Channel Two.
[speaker002:] Yeah, when he played DANNY BOY it just almost brought,
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] tears to your eyes, because he can make that flute sing.
[speaker001:] Oh, really?
[speaker002:] Yeah, and, uh, it was tremendous.
[speaker001:] Now, he, he is a, uh, actually, I did, I played flute for,
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] almost ten years and, and, uh, so, I, I, I appreciate his too,
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] his, his mus-, he, he, he's from Ireland isn't he?
[speaker002:] Yeah, uh-huh, and it was, uh, mostly all Irish tunes,
[speaker001:] Was i-, yeah.
[speaker002:] they had a band with him that, uh, had a harpist and another flute and then a guy that played the bagpipes plus the, uh, tin whistle,
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] and a couple of violins and, uh, drum,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] and they, they played all the Irish jigs and so forth, it was just fabulous.
[speaker001:] Yeah, I, he, he is really good. Yeah, I, I, I come from a musical background,
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] so, uh, uh, I've played fl-, flute, flute and piano, so,
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] I, I, I have a b-, big appreciation for music,
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] up to a point. I, I'm getting now to the age where I don't like the new stuff that's coming an-,
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] and much of the new stuff that's coming out,
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] my husband says I'm getting old [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Yeah [LAUGHTER]. I love, uh, I, li-, I especially like instrumentals.
[speaker001:] Do you?
[speaker002:] Yeah. I love to just lay back on the couch and, and turn a good, good instrumental [volume got louder] on and just close my eyes and listen.
[speaker001:] Yeah, that's, that's nice to do, that is. [breathing] I've got a, [LAUGHTER] I've got a, I've got a two year old who's now getting, I'm getting well versed in, in kiddy music [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Yeah. [LAUGHTER] [pause] I'm, I've never played an instrument in my life, I've always wanted too,
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] I've always wished my parents [LAUGHTER] had forced me to learn the piano or something,
[speaker001:] Yeah [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] but, uh,
[speaker001:] I was one of the forced ones [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] but I, I'd just love to be able to go to a party or something and sit down at the piano and bang out music
[speaker001:] Oh, I could never do that [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] and,
[speaker001:] I was never that brave but, uh, [NOISE] [sniffing] yeah.
[speaker002:] I guess the closest I've ever come to participating in music is singing in the choir.
[speaker001:] Yeah, oh, yeah, I've, I've done, I've done that at church too.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] I haven't done that in a long time.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] So, let's see what els-,. Well, what kind of music do you not like?
[speaker002:] Well, like I say the acid rock, I just do not ca-, an I don't care for rap music either.
[speaker001:] Oh, go-, that's not music [LAUGHTER],
[speaker002:] Uh-huh, no.
[speaker001:] that is not, I don't know what that is, but that's not music [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] If I can't understand the words I don't want to listen to it.
[speaker001:] Well, it's, it's, it's not, it's not music, it's just, it's just, uh, uh, talking in a beat, it is just,
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] it's not exciting at all it doesn't,
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] it doesn't give you relaxation, you can't dance to it, you can't do anything to it [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Right. But,
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] I, and I love, I like orchestra music too. Like the,
[speaker001:] D-,
[speaker002:] Boston Pops or,
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] or anything.
[speaker001:] [Breathing] Have you ever been to the, to, to the Dallas Symphony?
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Have you? Is i-, are,
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] are they good?
[speaker002:] Yeah, they're good.
[speaker001:] Are they? I, I have, I have,
[speaker002:] And, uh,
[speaker001:] never been.
[speaker002:] we went and saw, uh, L-, L-, LES MISERABLES
[speaker001:] Oh, really?
[speaker002:] oh, the music in that was fantastic.
[speaker001:] I, I've heard, I've heard that that is a really,
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] I heard that was hard to get tickets to.
[speaker002:] Yeah, it, it, uh, I can't remember how far in advance we reserved,
[speaker001:] .
[speaker002:] tickets but it was out, you know, out at the State Fair Music Hall and, uh
[speaker001:] Yeah. Yeah, that was a real,
[speaker002:] it was well worth the price.
[speaker001:] Was it?
[speaker002:] Yeah,
[speaker001:] I, I bet it was,
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] I, I really bet it was [sniffing]. Is that the only, uh, musical, do you go see a lot of musicals?
[speaker002:] Just, just ever so often
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] you know, a real, a real good one like that one and,
[speaker001:] That, that would be, that would be nice [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] I went and saw, uh, I think it was, uh, SUGAR BABIES, that was good, that had good music in it.
[speaker001:] Was it? How, how, I can't, I don't know what that's about.
[speaker002:] Uh, that was the one with Mickey Rooney and, uh, oh, what's that real, oh, not real old, my wife she is old too,
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] dancer, uh, I can't think of her name. I got it right on the tip of my tongue and can't say it, Helen something.
[speaker001:] Uh, uh, uh, I think I know who you're ta-, oh, I know who you're talking about,
[speaker002:] real long legs,
[speaker001:] she's got black hair,
[speaker002:] and dark hair.
[speaker001:] Yeah, okay, I know who [LAUGHTER] your talking about. I can't think ever her name either.
[speaker002:] I can't think of it.
[speaker001:] Yeah, that wa-, that was, that was, I remember that being, uh, here a few years ago.
[speaker002:] Yeah,
[speaker001:] [Sniffing].
[speaker002:] but, uh,
[speaker001:] Oh, oh, the last country music, my, my parents still, uh, really like country,
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] music and they, they like, uh, they like the Oak Ridge Boys and the Statler Brothers,
[speaker002:] Oh, yeah, yeah.
[speaker001:] and, and, uh, well, my, my, my,
[speaker002:] The Blackwoods.
[speaker001:] my parents, yeah, my husband likes, uh, country music real well and he, he likes some of the new groups like Shenandoah,
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] and, yeah, he really likes Shenandoah.
[speaker002:] Alabama.
[speaker001:] Yeah, yeah, well, yeah, Alabama,
[speaker002:] Uh,
[speaker001:] I think, I think they're a bit over exposed [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Yeah [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] I get kind,
[speaker002:] .
[speaker001:] of tire-, get tir-, tired of every other song being Alabama on the,
[speaker002:] Yeah,
[speaker001:] radio.
[speaker002:] either Alabama or Hank Williams, Junior.
[speaker001:] Oh, I, I've never cared for Hank,
[speaker002:] I never have either,
[speaker001:] Williams, Junior.
[speaker002:] and I never have figured out how he won, uh, entertainer of the year for about,
[speaker001:] Oh [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] three or four years in a row.
[speaker001:] Oh, we, we watch those award shows too, we enjoy watching the country and the Grammies and stuff but I just, I just don't care for him,
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] I just never have. I don't,
[speaker002:] I guess probably my favorite all time country and western song or singer is, uh, probably Eddy Arnold.
[speaker001:] Is, is it?
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Okay, I, I think, I, I know who that is, uh-huh. I think my parents have [sniffing] have, uh, some of his records.
[speaker002:] But, uh,
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] I got a, I've got about a hundred and, or had a, uh, some, uh, I sold some of them, I had about a hundred and fifty old seventy-eight R P M records of country and western,
[speaker001:] Wow.
[speaker002:] songs, Smiley Burnette, I don't know if you were old enough to remember him [music] him.
[speaker001:] I've heard the name.
[speaker002:] He was, uh, played in the old western movies. He was the sidekick of Gene Autry I believe
[speaker001:] Huh.
[speaker002:] or they, I think his name in, in the movie was Froggy and,
[speaker001:] I've, I've never seen a Gene Autry movie,
[speaker002:] had a real raspy voice,
[speaker001:] Huh.
[speaker002:] and, uh,
[speaker001:] No, I never have [sniffing].
[speaker002:] some of those old ones, of course, Bob Wills, Miss Texas Playboys
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] Ernest Tubbs and Red Foley an,
[speaker001:] Yeah, those go back quite a way [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Yeah. I took them up here to Collectors Rector-, Records and was able to get a little money for them
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] but, uh,
[speaker001:] It's hard to,
[speaker002:] my m-, mother and dad use to, uh, own a restaurant,
[speaker001:] Oh, yeah.
[speaker002:] and he had, uh, they had a, uh, nickelodeon, of course, in the restaurant,
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] and when they would come and change the records the guys would, the guy would give her the old records
[speaker001:] Well, that wou-, that's neat.
[speaker002:] so, that's where I got my,
[speaker001:] that would be gr-, great if they weren't too worn out,
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] at the time.
[speaker002:] Of course, there's not a whole lot of market for seventy-eight R P M records.
[speaker001:] Is there not? You, you'd, well you'd think there would be.
[speaker002:] Well, the problem is most of the record players now will not play them because,
[speaker001:] Well, that's true.
[speaker002:] you have to have that needle, that, uh, particular kind of needle
[speaker001:] Oh, yeah.
[speaker002:] and, uh, they,
[speaker001:] [Breathing].
[speaker002:] just won't play on a modern day, uh
[speaker001:] Well, that's a shame
[speaker002:] phonograph.
[speaker001:] [Sniffing] because I, I, we go to antique stores a lot and you see seventy-eights,
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] a, a lot at, at the stores, a-, a-, at record stores, you'd,
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] think there'd be a market for, I'm, I'm sure you could find old players for them but that would cost a fortune,
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] if you could find them that worked [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Oh.
[speaker002:] Of course, they, you know, just don't have the quality of records nowadays either because,
[speaker001:] No.
[speaker002:] you, you get that scratchy sound.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh. Well, those things were big and thick weren't they?
[speaker002:] Yeah, yeah.
[speaker001:] You could kill somebody with them [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Yeah, th-, warped real easy.
[speaker001:] And the ones you buy, go out and buy one now and they're just so thin and,
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] flimsy and they just, they're not meant to last,
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] at all, ne-, neither are tapes. I, I bu-, we buy cassette tapes,
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] and machines will eat them,
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] and so, the best bet, any, anymo-, these days are compact disk, those things are practically indestructible [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] But, I, I guess, you know, the old country and western music you, back then when I was a kid, there wasn't that much T V,
[speaker001:] Oh, no.
[speaker002:] so that's all you had to listen to was the,
[speaker001:] Radio.
[speaker002:] radio, and, uh,
[speaker001:] [Sniffing] Tha-, that's just what, just what you had, we-, plus,
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] I think it was better back then to, th-, there's too much T V now
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] and the radio is, you know, more exciting,
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] really, than, than television, kep-, your imagination
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] i-, i-, kept and yo-, it just didn't vegetate your mind like television does [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Yeah, I remember mother and dad always turned on the Grand Ole Opera.
[speaker001:] Oh, yeah.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] [Sniffing] Was it on the radio every week?
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Wha-, what day, what day was that on, do you, ha-, can you recall.
[speaker002:] Uh, uh, seems like it was on a Friday,
[speaker001:] Uh.
[speaker002:] Friday or,

[speaker001:] okay do you have any children
[speaker002:] uh yes I have a daughter
[speaker001:] um-hum I don't any children so I'm gonna have difficulty with this topic but uh what kind of things do you and your family do
[speaker002:] oh okay um well we go out and fly kites and we go fishing and we go to movies
[speaker001:] hm
[speaker002:] and we go out to the farm and and uh she likes to pick flowers and look at birds
[speaker001:] um-hum hm then your kind of family is probably pretty rare now a days I don't see a lot of families fishing and doing things like that that's great
[speaker002:] well well I'm divorced but that's what when she's with me that's what we do
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] and we color a lot and I read her stories and
[speaker001:] um-hum that's great
[speaker002:] yep
[speaker001:] I think uh a lot of families now for they probably don't spend enough time together you know whether they're
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] whether the parents are together or divorced they don't spend enough time together and and I think that contributes to a lot of why society is going downhill right now is because the basic family unit is uh being destroyed
[speaker002:] yep
[speaker001:] just simply because that time isn't spent just doing things like fishing and because that I think that when you spend a lot of time with each other you communicate a lot and the communication helps you build on your uh helps just just build your family
[speaker002:] um-hum yeah and even even when I was when I was uh living with her and we did stuff then too so
[speaker001:] um-hum yeah that's pretty to me that's pretty rare
[speaker002:] yeah I know
[speaker001:] I think that whenever I do have children I'll I'm gonna try as hard as I can to see see that we spend a lot of time together you know maybe just even if we just rent a movie and watch it together just to make sure that everybody's not going out and doing and their own thing all the time
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] and you know that's good sometimes because you need to you know get away but uh I don't think you you should spend too much time outside at the detriment of of losing your family the family unit
[speaker002:] yeah that's right because then you never get to know them either they're all grown up and their you know
[speaker001:] um-hum yeah yeah and as I understand it I don't know I haven't experienced it but you know kids these days are growing up so much faster
[speaker002:] yeah um-hum
[speaker001:] you know once they hit like ten or eleven or twelve you know you've pretty much lost them
[speaker002:] yeah they're out doing stuff by that time
[speaker001:] um-hum yeah so um do you think that you do you think that your family's pretty rare in that you do a lot of things or just the relationship between you and your daughter
[speaker002:] yeah yeah I really do because because I don't see many other this and when whenever we go to the park or something sometimes on the weekdays we'll see other families
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] but not usually on the on the uh weekends we don't see very many in comparison
[speaker001:] what do you think is the key to just bringing the American family back together what what kinds of things do you think can
[speaker002:] well I think they ought to turn off the TV for one thing
[speaker001:] yeah that's true that's
[speaker002:] and and go out and do stuff you know because she always likes to do things whenever the TV's off you know she'll forget about the TV completely
[speaker001:] hm right I think that's the first thing a lot of people do and I know I'm guilty of it like I came in from work today first thing I did was turn the TV on because I taped the stories from earlier today
[speaker002:] um-hum right
[speaker001:] and I like to watch them but I think that's that is a big problem television it's it's it's too static you know it's something that you can do but you there's no thinking involved no motion you know and I think I think that's another reason why people are uh so health conscious now is because America's becoming really a couch potato society
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] you know people aren't doing anything just sitting around you know no thinking involved and now I think I think people are trying to get out of that at least and that um you know there's a lot of um it's it's becoming really health conscious and that people are you know starting to look out for cholesterol and things like that trying to get out and workout more often and jog and walk and different things like that
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] and that's probably good you know if you get your family involved in exercising and maybe playing tennis or something like that that also helps that's also something you know family oriented that everyone can do
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] hm
[speaker002:] yeah but when was uh when she was here last summer we played tennis but she hasn't brought her tennis racket over lately
[speaker001:] hum-um
[speaker002:] and we
[speaker001:] how how old is she
[speaker002:] she's five
[speaker001:] um well she has
[speaker002:] we we just been hitting the ball on the ground
[speaker001:] yeah yeah
[speaker002:] she can't hit it in the air yet and then we kick the ball we play like soccer
[speaker001:] we'll you still have a lot of time before she gets up in years that's good that's good
[speaker002:] um-hum yeah
[speaker001:] hm okay well it was very nice talking to you
[speaker002:] nice talking to you okay bye-bye
[speaker001:] okay bye-bye

[speaker001:] I've, uh, [clicking] [telephone] are you there?
[speaker002:] Yes, sir, I'm right here.
[speaker001:] All right [LAUGHTER]. Okay, um, I'm in an area where, um, we can, uh, enjoy it year round, so, I've actually been, uh, uh, been out within the past couple of weeks. I'm mainly a freshwater fisherman. How about yourself?
[speaker002:] Well, actually I've done both kinds
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] uh, I'm originally from the State of Virginia
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] and, uh, lived near, near Virginia Beach where we could, uh, surf cast and, uh
[speaker001:] Did you ev-,
[speaker002:] catch a lot of things in the ocean there.
[speaker001:] Did you ever do the James River?
[speaker002:] I don't believe I have fished the James River. There's a possibility, but that was so long ago [LAUGHTER]
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] I moved here to, to State College, uh, in nineteen fifty-five
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] and that has pretty well limited my fishing to fresh water
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] and we have a lot of, uh, beautiful fresh water streams that come through thi-, this area. I'm in an area called Center County, which is in the very center of the State of Pennsylvania,
[speaker001:] I've [throat clearing] I've been in that area and the trout fishing is supposed to be legendary.
[speaker002:] The trout fishing is really, uh, beautiful. As I say, the, the streams are, oh, eight, ten, fifteen feet wide and so forth, and, uh, you, you stand on the edge and you, you cast out and you, you work, uh, from your feet most of the time
[speaker001:] Uh-huh, for brookies.
[speaker002:] and then there are, there are a few lakes of course, close by, *should this be part of utt1 and the end of a slash unit?
[speaker001:] Yeah, what do you like, brookies or, uh, rainbows or,
[speaker002:] Well, tell you the truth, I'm, I'm not, uh, not picky. I, wherever the area, whatever the fish is the specialist in that area, I, uh, I enjoy fishing for it, and I try to, I haven't fished in several years
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] I'll have to admit, but when I do fish, I do contact, uh, some of the local specialists
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] so that I can then find out the, uh, the type of lures that they use and where they fish, and any unique, uh, techniques that would help you.
[speaker001:] Do you fly fish, or are those streams too small?
[speaker002:] Uh, no, we, we fly fish.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] [Throat clearing] I used to do that a little when I lived up in New York, but
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] right now it's, uh, uh, bass and striped bass is the only thing that I go for down in Dal-, in, uh, Texas.
[speaker002:] Oh, that's a pretty big fish.
[speaker001:] Uh, yeah, they're, they've, uh, the striped bass have accommodated themselves to the big fresh water lakes, and they're pretty exciting when they're, when they're running.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] It's a salt water fish in fresh water, uh, environment.
[speaker002:] Well, our, our streams here are replanted with fish about every year
[speaker001:] It's all put and take.
[speaker002:] so that, well, they, they, they, uh, they have a pretty good idea of, of, uh, what the number of fish are in these various locations, and
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] and they have [cough] have certain areas that they plant, you know, a hundred here and a hundred there, and this is, of course, X number of weeks or months before fishing season opens so,
[speaker001:] What's the season? April to Sep-, October or something like that?
[speaker002:] That sounds about right
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] uh-huh, pretty close.
[speaker001:] Uh
[speaker002:] You know.
[speaker001:] what's a license cost?
[speaker002:] Well, as I say, it's been several years, but the licenses weren't that expensive, I, seems to stick in my mind, five to seven dollars
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] is about all, from what I remember it.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh. It's about the same as Texas.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] And I have, oh, probably a half a dozen different kinds of, uh, fishing poles and, and fly rods and so forth, and, and I had been so busy in my work in these last few years that I haven't had time to fish. But I'm going to be retiring at the end of December, and I, I hope, uh, the next fishing season, that I can sort of get back in and, uh, enjoy that. That, that was a really enjoyable, uh, thing for me to do.
[speaker001:] Well, I have all sons, so I think I'm probably going to be fishing for a long time [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Huh, I just have one son and he, he lives out of the state now, rather, in the eastern corner of it, so, I don't think he has time to fish either [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] I caught the disease from my father, and I'm passing it on to my children. It's really [LAUGHTER],
[speaker002:] Oh, is that right?
[speaker001:] They love it, yeah.
[speaker002:] Oh, my goodness.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] Well, I, I, the disease I caught was simply because, uh, I, I was in the Norfolk Portsmouth area, and
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] people there, there's, there's so much water around
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] that, you, you're either boating or you're fishing
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] and, uh, I fairly enjoyed at that time. I have a small aluminum boat here
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] that, uh, when I go on one of the large lakes that we have here that I enjoy fishing for, for trout from that,
[speaker001:] Uh, uh, I don't, I don't know about the lakes in central Pennsylvania. Are there many?
[speaker002:] [Throat clearing] Well, as I say, I'm in Center County. There's, um, there're two different size lakes about, well, five, six miles from State College.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Now these aren't huge lakes from your point of view
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] but they are probably fifteen, twenty acres maybe
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] which, which here is a lot of water,

[speaker001:] Okay.
[speaker002:] Okay, where have you all been on vacation recently?
[speaker001:] Recently, my most recent trip was last year, and that was Detroit.
[speaker002:] Detroit?
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] Is that a nice vacation spot?
[speaker001:] Well, it wasn't really. It was, um, uh, to see an old relative.
[speaker002:] Right, okay.
[speaker001:] And it was, uh, just to, uh, [lipsmack] have some fellowship with her.
[speaker002:] Right. So you probably wouldn't recommend that as a big tourist spot?
[speaker001:] No. The only thing that I, I visited that, you know, is quite a tourist spot is Cancun, Mexico.
[speaker002:] Ooh, that would be nice.
[speaker001:] And that was real nice. Uh,
[speaker002:] Did you scuba dive there?
[speaker001:] No, we just kind of walked the beaches and looked at all the beautiful scenery there.
[speaker002:] Ooh, that would be nice.
[speaker001:] Yeah, and just kind of relaxed and unwound a little bit,
[speaker002:] Oh, that would be enjoyable.
[speaker001:] from our daily routine.
[speaker002:] Right, yeah, that's,
[speaker001:] Huh.
[speaker002:] a nice break. I haven't been on vacation in a while either. Um, usually when we go, we go to Colorado, to Estes Park area.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Which is up kind of near Denver.
[speaker001:] Yes.
[speaker002:] And, uh, stay in the mountains up there, do a little hiking and resting, get away from the Texas heat, that kind of thing.
[speaker001:] Oh, that's always refreshing to get away from.
[speaker002:] So it's a lot of fun. I worked up there last summer, so I guess it was kind of like a vacation the,
[speaker001:] Oh, well, that's nice.
[speaker002:] whole summer long [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] Worked at a camp there, and so I got to [breathing] spend a lot of time up in the mountains. So that's probably my favorite place when I have to go somewhere on a vacation.
[speaker001:] Well, my, uh, my middle daughter and her husband have just taken up a new activity, and that's canoeing.
[speaker002:] Oh.
[speaker001:] And, uh, they've been to the Guadalupe River, and they also, uh, uh, have been to, uh, I guess Colorado, and they've really enjoyed it.
[speaker002:] That's nice. We, um,
[speaker001:] It's a whole new,
[speaker002:] we canoed up in Arkansas at the Buffalo River.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And that's the best place that I've ever canoed.
[speaker001:] Huh.
[speaker002:] It's really, really pretty. I was a little kid then, and we [breathing] to have, uh, we stayed at some park and they had [breathing] a little [breathing] uh, mountain man who came down the river every night, and he would give a little talk about [LAUGHTER] mountain things. You know, I think he wasn't a real mountain man, but we were pretty convinced he was a full,
[speaker001:] Sure.
[speaker002:] hermit who lived up in,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] the woods, that he'd come in his little log boat down the river, and we would have to, we'd and he'd make sassafras tea out of sassafras roots that he'd found and,
[speaker001:] Oh, that's neat.
[speaker002:] That's a good family place to go,
[speaker001:] Sure.
[speaker002:] and then the river was really nice because it wasn't too frightening, but it wasn't,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] you know, too easy either. It was like,
[speaker001:] Well, you learn a lot of, um, skills too, and I think you're more receptive when you're younger than when you're older, to learn new skills,
[speaker002:] That's true.
[speaker001:] and I think they really [lipsmack] it really pen-, penetrates in your memory, you know, what to do, because you really have a great interest in it.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Because it's something you weren't forced to do [LAUGHTER],
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] so you have kind of a relaxed mode of learning.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] And you're more receptive.
[speaker002:] Well, that's good. Well, we, um, let's see, the only other place I've ever vacationed, we'd, you know, go on camping trips up to Texoma and things like that.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And then I went to England
[speaker001:] Oh, that's exciting.
[speaker002:] a few years ago. I was a,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] student there and spent, um, a semester studying abroad in London.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And that was a great time, because it's so, that's such a neat place and it's, there's not a language barrier so you don't, I mean, there [LAUGHTER] there's a little bit, because there's some of those English words that you just don't [breathing] exactly know what they mean, and a lot of people have trouble wrestling with their accents, but [breathing] it's, it was really fun. I, I, I really enjoyed that. I'm probably going back there to work,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] for a year.
[speaker001:] Well, I had a friend that, uh, visited England not, well, I think it's been probably two years now, but that's her next goal, {C and she can do it, } is go back to England, because she really has a great desire to do that, because the love that she, um, has for it now after visiting it.
[speaker002:] It, it's really nice. I would, I would spend all my time in London,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] or most of my time, and that's [breathing] it was really different being in a big city, because I don't get much into urban, you know, really urban areas a lot
[speaker001:] Uh-huh, uh-huh.
[speaker002:] and it was, it's really, it's sort of a weird little anonymous feeling where no one knows who you are and you can spend a whole day without talking to anyone, which I thought I would just hate, but it ended up being kind of nice [breathing] because you're not accountable to anyone.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh, uh-huh.
[speaker002:] You could just kind of [breathing],
[speaker001:] Do your own thing.
[speaker002:] kind of walk around and observe,
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] I did a lot of just going out by myself and [breathing] riding on the subway and watching people.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And I had a great time doing that. It was really interesting.
[speaker001:] That's wonderful. There's a lot out there to see,
[speaker002:] Yeah, I know,
[speaker001:] I'll say.
[speaker002:] I [LAUGHTER] keep wanting to get up to, I haven't, I haven't been anywhere else outside the United States. I haven't been to Mexico or Canada or,
[speaker001:] Well, I lived across the street almost from Canada [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Oh.
[speaker001:] So that was, that, that's a nice place. Canada is very nice.
[speaker002:] Yeah, that would be nice. I had a friend from there.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Then I, I'd love to go somewhere in Asia, but I'd have to have a [LAUGHTER] tour guide with me to
[speaker001:] Oh, yes, absolutely.
[speaker002:] help with all the language and all that.
[speaker001:] Sure, somebody that knows their way around.
[speaker002:] So, yeah, that's why, that's why England was nice. Even, we traveled in Europe for about a week, and that was even nice because there wasn't, uh, the, most the places we went, we went to Germany and Switzerland and,
[speaker001:] Well, you've been quite a few places there [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Yeah, we have. [LAUGHTER] We.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Once you think about it, huh.
[speaker002:] We did, we whirlwinded through,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Europe. It was [LAUGHTER] just insane twelve days where we'd just stop like a city a day, and you slept on the train at night.
[speaker001:] Oh, that's great.
[speaker002:] But there wasn't a, it was strange, it was kind of sad, there wasn't ever a language problem there, because everyone in Germany knew English and everyone in Switzerland,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] knew English.
[speaker001:] That's great.
[speaker002:] So [LAUGHTER] we were kind of pitiful. We found one restaurant we were in [breathing] and got seated, and then no one knew English in there, and we were just [LAUGHTER],
[speaker001:] Uh-huh [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] finally had to break out the phrase book and start looking up things. But it was,
[speaker001:] What did you wind up with? [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Oh, I had fondue. That was easy to say [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Oh, okay [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Tried to get fondue and white wine, and that was,
[speaker001:] Uh, uh-huh.
[speaker002:] we were able to have that pretty, pretty effortlessly. There were some people at the next table who spoke English, so we [breathing],
[speaker001:] They kind of guided you.
[speaker002:] elicited their aid for a while and,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] they were very helpful so,
[speaker001:] Well, good.
[speaker002:] It was, it was a pleasant time. I'd, I'd love to go back there. There's just not time [LAUGHTER]. There's not enough time to go see everything, and then to afford to see everything.
[speaker001:] I guess that's why we need to plan for retirement, so when we do have the free time, we'll have the, the means to, uh, pursue our dreams.
[speaker002:] Right. That's [faint],
[speaker001:] Yeah. I guess that's what retirement is all about.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] That and sleeping late [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Yes.
[speaker002:] I keep hoping for.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Well
[speaker001:] I understand that.
[speaker002:] it was nice talking with you.
[speaker001:] Well, it was nice talking with you too, Craig.
[speaker002:] And have a good afternoon.
[speaker001:] You do the same.
[speaker002:] Okay.
[speaker001:] Thank you.
[speaker002:] Good-bye.
[speaker001:] Bye-bye.

[speaker001:] Do yo-, are you on a reg-, regular exercise program right now?
[speaker002:] Yes, and I hate it [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] How about you?
[speaker001:] Oh, well, I'm kind of off and on.
[speaker002:] Off and on well, I guess I've been kind of off and on I've, uh,
[speaker001:] Right now I'm kind of off.
[speaker002:] Had some health problems that have led me to, uh, I'd say more on than off [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Okay, what type of exercise do you do?
[speaker002:] Uh, I do walking on the treadmill, and then I do low impact aerobics.
[speaker001:] Okay. I guess you don't enjoy that very much.
[speaker002:] Not, not really.
[speaker001:] Do you find that, uh, to be boring?
[speaker002:] Yeah, and time consuming, I mean it's not just the exercise that's boring and time consuming, it's, uh, you know, afterwards, you know, then you have to take a shower and get cleaned up, you know.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Well, I'm trying to get back in shape for softball this spring.
[speaker002:] Oh, yeah.
[speaker001:] But I,
[speaker002:] Do you go through this, is this something that you go through every year [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Yeah, I haven't decided whether, whether I want to play yet or not I just bought myself a solo flex machine, I don't know if you've seen those advertised on T V.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] It's one of those, uh, universal type machines, exercise machines. But I haven't really sat down and used it match yet, so it's collecting dust right now.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] Yeah, a lot of things do that. I had an,
[speaker001:] I used to jog somewhat.
[speaker002:] I had an exercise bike I use to have one, and I finally got rid of sit cause I never used it, but I do use my treadmill [breathing].
[speaker001:] Uh-huh, well, that's good. Yeah, my parents have a treadmill it's, when I go visit them, uh, I get on that thing every now and then.
[speaker002:] Yeah, it's nice because when the weather's bad you can't, you don't have any [LAUGHTER] excuse.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh, I just got the bicycle out today, and it was real nice outside, had to get out to do something.
[speaker002:] Yeah, I can't ride a bike so.
[speaker001:] I've been sitting in here in the house all weekend with a cold so thought I,
[speaker002:] Oh.
[speaker001:] better, better get outside and do something and not waist the day.
[speaker002:] Yeah, it's too nice, it's been too nice all weekend.
[speaker001:] But, uh, yeah, I need to start jog something again. I've always of that to be, uh, really one of the best forms of exercise, but it's terribly boring, and so I really don't ever keep a program up consistently.
[speaker002:] Have you ever had any injuries from jogging?
[speaker001:] No, I never have. Well, I don't job enough I think to develop any injuries I usually only go about a mile or two.
[speaker002:] I guess it worries me about jogging it's that I hear that it's very hard on your body and, and that, you know, you can end up getting hurt,
[speaker001:] Yeah,
[speaker002:] worse.
[speaker001:] it's, it's tough on the joints if you jog on concrete,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] or on asphalt. Suppose to be much better if you find grass, uh, or, or dirt to jog on.
[speaker002:] Yeah, that's not quite so [LAUGHTER],
[speaker001:] You have to have the right,
[speaker002:] so easy.
[speaker001:] type of shoes too, that's,
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] very important.
[speaker002:] Yeah. I found that,
[speaker001:] But,
[speaker002:] true especially from walking on toe and fronts.
[speaker001:] Yeah, I don't have to buy jogging shoes all to often my don't get very much use [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] Well, I guess my breakdown about, they say about every six months.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh. I usually enjoy the exercise I do but, uh, like I said I'm just not very consistent about maintaining a, a program. So I'll, I'll bicycle I get into that for, for a little while and maybe go out, uh, on a consistent basis every couple of days and ride a bike for awhile, but then I'll get tired of doing that,
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] and maybe start jogging again and go out about three or four nights a week.
[speaker002:] .
[speaker001:] But, uh, that gets old too in a very short order,
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] I'm, I'm hoping that this, uh, solo flex will, uh, uh, change things a little bit, I really need to get on a regular type of program and use that thing on a consistent basis.
[speaker002:] Yeah, well, don't let it collect dust. At least exercise while dusting it off [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] [breathing] well.
[speaker001:] Maybe if I can get interested in playing softball again this string I can, uh, start some type of, uh, regular program.
[speaker002:] Yeah, that, that'll be good.
[speaker001:] I've always found that, uh, when you write things down and set goals it's a lot easier to keep, uh, keep something going.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Uh, when I was in high school we had a choice of, uh, taking, uh, physical education courses on exercise, an, uh, one of those involved a six weeks session on a universal machine, lifting weights and,
[speaker002:] Oh.
[speaker001:] uh, working out like that. And that was very helpful we kept charts of our progress,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and, uh, consistently increased the empty of resistance so you could see how much you improved over the weeks. I found that to be, uh, very helpful.
[speaker002:] Are you going to do that?
[speaker001:] Uh, I need to,
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] I haven't started yet but, uh, [LAUGHTER] it's a thought.
[speaker002:] Well, that sounds like something good to do then.
[speaker001:] Sounds like something I should do.
[speaker002:] Yeah, nice way to start off this spring.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Get back in shape.
[speaker001:] How often do you, uh, uh, go out each week on your walking?
[speaker002:] Well, I do, I switch every other day one day I walk and one day I do the aerobics.
[speaker001:] Okay, how far, about how far do you go walking?
[speaker002:] [Breathing] Well, I'm trying to get my tolerance now I just had surgery, um, less then two months ago, and right now I'm just a little over about a mile and a half,
[speaker001:] Okay.
[speaker002:] but I'm trying to workup to three miles.
[speaker001:] Well, that's good. Well they say that walking is just as good if not better then jogging.
[speaker002:] Yeah,
[speaker001:] It,
[speaker002:] it takes, it's just that it takes longer to get to the same effect.
[speaker001:] Sure.
[speaker002:] Yeah, but.
[speaker001:] Well, if you keep up with a consistent pace just to, uh, keep the heart rating going, uh,
[speaker002:] My walkman broke,
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] so I'm upset [LAUGHTER],
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] and I just have to turn to stereo up real loud [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] But it's a lot less stressful on the joints then jogging is.
[speaker002:] Yeah, it is and this doesn't, you know, my treadmill has an incline and, you know, you can get a really good workout on it.
[speaker001:] Um, do you go to an aerobics class or do you watch,
[speaker002:] No, I,
[speaker001:] on T V?
[speaker002:] I just do it on T V,
[speaker001:] Okay.
[speaker002:] I have a cassette.
[speaker001:] Which, uh, shows do you watch on T V?
[speaker002:] Um, it's a, it's a tap-, I use tapes.
[speaker001:] Oh, okay, okay, like a Cathy Smith workout,
[speaker002:] Or, or Richard Simmons,
[speaker001:] or Jane Fonda.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Okay [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Sweating to the oldies [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Right. I, ev-, every now and then I'll watch E S P N, I get cable on T V,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and they have, uh, a couple of shows called basic training, and, uh, what is the other one called.
[speaker002:] There was one guy I use to watch on E S P N, I don't know if he's still on any more or not, I don-, I don't know if I get E S P N or not [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] But, uh, one, you know, I use to watch one, watch one on the air, but that was back,
[speaker001:] BODIES IN MOTION that's, that's the name of the one I was thinking of.
[speaker002:] That's was, yeah.
[speaker001:] With Gill.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] .
[speaker002:] Yeah, I watched that cause he was cute [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Yeah, [LAUGHTER] he-, he-, he's not bad his assistants usually aren't either.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] But, uh,
[speaker001:] They're always in, in Hawaii some place.
[speaker002:] Yeah, yeah.
[speaker001:] On, on the beach.
[speaker002:] But then that was back when, uh, you know, the high impact and,
[speaker001:] Yeah, well, they, they do low I pact stuff now, [typo? I pact impact] *why utt? this is notes about transcription
[speaker002:] Do they.
[speaker001:] they're on every day.
[speaker002:] Are the-, yeah they're still, they're still, he's still doing it then, uh.
[speaker001:] Yeah, every morning.
[speaker002:] I'll have to tune in.
[speaker001:] It's on E S P N, uh, at what time, I can't remember what time. It's, uh, you know, I can't remember offhand what time.
[speaker002:] I'll have to check it, check,
[speaker001:] Yeah .
[speaker002:] check, check it back up, and, but the thing is everybody always looks so good on that show, at least on [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Yeah, every now and then.
[speaker002:] Not everybody has a picture perfect body.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh, well, I found that they, they have just a much better program than the other shows that are on T V.
[speaker002:] I haven't watch any other ones on T V. [typo watchwatched]
[speaker001:] They're on weekdays at eleven o'clock every day.
[speaker002:] Just on some of the tapes.
[speaker001:] Monday through Friday incase you're interested in that. [typo incasein case] *again why utt?
[speaker002:] Okay, [LAUGHTER] thanks.
[speaker001:] I actually taped a few session that they had on there but,
[speaker002:] Now, that's a thought.
[speaker001:] uh, I haven't done so much as, uh, watch the tape that I made.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] So I'm kind of bad about that myself.
[speaker002:] Well, that's thought, I haven't thought about that, well they're going to beep us pretty soon.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Okay, well, I sure enjoyed,
[speaker002:] Nice talking to you too.
[speaker001:] to you about exercise and fitness.
[speaker002:] Okay, thanks.
[speaker001:] So, all right.
[speaker002:] Talk to you later.
[speaker001:] Good night.
[speaker002:] Bye.
[speaker001:] Bye.

[speaker002:] well we're just starting a family through adoption so I don't really have a lot of um concrete um opinions just what I know out of my peer group uh has gone through and none of it's been good
[speaker001:] oh really
[speaker002:] yeah uh the ones that can afford to have live in nannies they seem to be having an okay time
[speaker001:] huh uh-huh
[speaker002:] uh but a lot of the other ones that have are professional um I'd say fifty percent of you know my peers that I'm in my circle of friends have tried it and then stopped working until they're you know going to get their children in kindergarten or first grade
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] uh but I there must be some good service out there if you really look and pay for it
[speaker001:] right what what age child are you thinking in in terms of
[speaker002:] in terms of what they're talking about
[speaker001:] no for for yourselves
[speaker002:] oh infant um
[speaker001:] oh okay so you're starting from the baseline from the baseline
[speaker002:] infant yeah after eleven years of marriage yeah we are we're actually it's happening now so we're just going through the process
[speaker001:] I see
[speaker002:] so and and actually the question is uh very appropriate because I'm not sure whether um how strong the maternal instinct's going to be they tell me it's going to be strong do you have children
[speaker001:] right I have one son
[speaker002:] and did you put him in day care or is he older now or younger or
[speaker001:] well he's now he's now eighteen and in in you know has completed a couple of years of university
[speaker002:] sure so he's out of day care
[speaker001:] I right and and so that but I was working full-time uh when he was born but I was very lucky because I was a a college professor
[speaker002:] you uh-huh oh
[speaker001:] and so I was able to you know and I it was walking distance from my from my apartment so I went up there and I sort of left him with with a neighbor
[speaker002:] flex yeah um-hum
[speaker001:] and I left him in a carry cot when he was very little and I said you know he doesn't need anything except you know look look at him if he cries but you know don't pick him up and and this sort of stuff because I was gone only an hour at a stretch or an hour and a half
[speaker002:] yeah oh that's wonderful
[speaker001:] and I was able to you know get his his schedule just uh cooperated and
[speaker002:] right that's wonderful yeah and and I guess um that uh because of your um your uh profession I mean I um I'm in corporate communications but I've done freelance writing in the past
[speaker001:] yeah uh-huh
[speaker002:] so what we're hoping is that um I mean my husband thinks I can do it I've just never worked out of a domestic base you know I've always been in a corporate uh environment
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] um but I'm hoping that possibly I can do something where I can go flextime or part-time or if they don't have that um my boss I'm very lucky though again too my boss is very akin to family building so I think that's something that something that couples need in going into this
[speaker001:] um-hum right
[speaker002:] um I don't know I do think there's good day care out there what part of the country are you in
[speaker001:] I'm in Maryland but but I was out of the country when um my my son was little but but the thing is if you have this flextime and that you might be able to do something similar to what I did which is
[speaker002:] you're in Maryland right that's what I'm hoping
[speaker001:] you know be there short times and then later on when he was you know I mean this we're talking about uh I went back to work and or taught some some classes like a week after he was born
[speaker002:] um-hum oh my goodness you were fortunate yeah
[speaker001:] and so yeah and so that's when I was saying you know don't don't pick him up and stuff but then later what I did was I brought a woman into the house
[speaker002:] yeah um-hum sure
[speaker001:] and she was she was supposed to help me a little bit with cooking and doing the baby's laundry and this sort of stuff
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] and then I also came home and sort of was was able to see from a distance what she was doing and you know in a sense she she carried him around a lot too much uh you know for for my taste it was constantly no I don't want him to explore anything he might
[speaker002:] uh-huh uh-huh right
[speaker001:] uh he might hurt himself
[speaker002:] so do you think that I mean do you think that that was in a way though good objectivity good objectivity that now that's doesn't really that's not a correct English but um you know in a sense you see what I'm saying though from a mother's standpoint I mean in a way it it was quote unquote good objectivity objectivity
[speaker001:] I think it worked out very well a very well because what he learned to do by the time he was
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] two or so he would sit next to the desk where I was grading papers or writing lesson plans and he had asked for a paper and you know sort of scribble and then he realized that there were quiet times and there were active times
[speaker002:] see um-hum yeah right and then he learned he he also learned that um there were times that you had to be gone so you probably minimized well we're actually um we're getting ready I mean you're far enough away now I can tell you this just locally I make sure we're going to Romania in a few weeks
[speaker001:] oh
[speaker002:] and that's um just
[speaker001:] did you say Romania or Armenia
[speaker002:] Romania Romania
[speaker001:] oh okay yeah yeah
[speaker002:] as in like what 2020 and um but we we're real excited because we've just developed a contact
[speaker001:] oh good
[speaker002:] through professional people and it's private and it's hospital it's we're just very excited um
[speaker001:] oh great
[speaker002:] and well it it what's the word I'm looking for when you deal with issues like that um in terms of family building through adoption um and then you have people responding to you well if you go through that why would you put them in day care
[speaker001:] oh that's silly
[speaker002:] um issues are being raised prematurely in my mind but I guess they're not because it's something I'll have to deal with sooner than later um and I what I've learned to do is just tune out everybody's opinion I feel that if the child's healthy um you know as long as we make it feel secure I'd love to do something like with what you did
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] um I don't think I could be a dumper where I could take it from you know eight in the morning till nine at night or six at night and leave it there
[speaker001:] right right
[speaker002:] uh maybe after two or three or years old I don't know um
[speaker001:] oh I in my opinion it's even then I mean uh kids need you
[speaker002:] but yeah I just well they need a schedule I think I don't think the United States what country were you um in Europe when you were uh uh
[speaker001:] no I was in the Middle East
[speaker002:] um oh that's sort of well that's the same thing I mean I don't know how they are there but uh in eastern Europe my stepfather's from England it just seems the United States does not provide for either child care or geriatrics or elder care as I call it
[speaker001:] right right
[speaker002:] um and we're just not set up for that um with the
[speaker001:] I yeah
[speaker002:] go ahead
[speaker001:] no I was just going to say I guess uh my sensitivities are are much more with the you know to be at home because actually I had my grandmother with me fro m the time she was from the time she was ninety two until she died at ninety seven
[speaker002:] um-hum see I think that's wonderful
[speaker001:] and I mean that was recently after my son son was going off and I mean yes in a sense I went to work and she was at home alone some of the time but but still you know it was much better than being shipped
[speaker002:] uh-huh to a
[speaker001:] to a day care center
[speaker002:] right
[speaker001:] you know which is much my feelings on kids and the elderly I think we're too we're too too much towards it's somebody else's problem you know I want to work shove them in in some school for twelve hours a day
[speaker002:] we cast off right right that I'm that way yeah right it's easier and I agree with that that's why I you you know what is amazing to me is now your son is already grown but you can probably empathize with this
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] it's amazing to me how forthcoming people are with their opinions and thoughts
[speaker001:] right right
[speaker002:] in terms of what to do um and I just don't think there is a day a good day care system um my company I'm particularly fortunate that they have they're in tune with that but I've been at companies where um you know the decision the the trend is or the definite mood is well we made conscious decisions not to have children
[speaker001:] and that's sad
[speaker002:] you know and in and a couple like us building through adoption there it's almost radical to some people
[speaker001:] right
[speaker002:] and what you just learn to do is tune everybody else out and um and I respect there are some women that I know that are divorced or on their own or in single parenting and men that they you know they may have the need for child care like that
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] but I agree with you that it's just I call it dumping I mean I
[speaker001:] yeah no I I think that certainly there is a role uh for this type of help and and as long as one can can supervise it and and you know make it work
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] into into one's own schedule without it seeming like dumping or or uh giving it you know the whole job to somebody else to take care of
[speaker002:] um-hum then yeah it's are it's in tandem then
[speaker001:] and yeah yeah
[speaker002:] I just um and there are trade-offs too I think one of the things that is a problem is that um in terms of compensation to some of the child care providers
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] um it's just you know it's so low but yet the overall cost for somebody doing it on a daily or even a weekly basis it's prohibitive and some people that are not making more than twenty thousand a year
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] um
[speaker001:] actually there seems to be an alternative in my neighborhood is there seem there are several uh uh mothers mothers who stay home
[speaker002:] really um-hum
[speaker001:] and they take you know it's probably not completely legal uh I maybe it's legal up to one or two additional kids
[speaker002:] sure
[speaker001:] but and they they take care of another child and I I can actually name could name five or six people around my neighborhood that really do a good job on this
[speaker002:] uh-huh and they yeah
[speaker001:] and I mean that's another possibility and you know you might want to stay home one year and some other lady might want to stay home for a a few years and
[speaker002:] I haven't thought about that yeah and actually my neighbor has an eighteen month old and she's an at home part-time paralegal so I'm thinking hm and we get along fantastically so I'm thinking you know and that's the way you have to um how was I'm just real curious how was the Middle East in terms of that with children
[speaker001:] yeah yeah
[speaker002:] is that is child care or that type of idea completely foreign to them
[speaker001:] no well actually there was a day care center um where my son did go for a year I think from when he was two to three
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] but then he actually started kindergarten at age three
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] and so and it you know it wasn't like pre kindergarten it was real kindergarten
[speaker002:] oh really he must be smart yeah
[speaker001:] yeah so he was he was ready to to go to school at that point
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] but yeah they're they do have such facilities but for the most part uh the with the extended family you know you can usually find somebody which is much like our neighbor you know to sharing responsibility and I'm and also there aren't that many women who who do who work
[speaker002:] uh-huh the professional yeah I was wondering about that um there I'm in Dallas and there was just a very big um series about Moslem women and
[speaker001:] yeah um-hum
[speaker002:] there were enlightening things that broke some of my stereotypical thoughts I'm digressing here but uh I was just real curious when you said Middle East if you didn't mind me asking
[speaker001:] yeah no no and I didn't mean Israel so you you assumed right
[speaker002:] oh no that's okay well even if you did that's okay actually I think
[speaker001:] well no because at first thought uh when I said uh you know I said that not many people work I'm I'm thinking oh well she's going to you know because certainly in Israel the women do work
[speaker002:] right right they fight they work

[speaker001:] Okay, I missed a part of it. We're to talk about what, lawns and gardens?
[speaker002:] Lawn and garden work and what you enjoy and what kind of work you do. I'm, I'm a putterer. I chose that topic because I really like gardening
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] as far as flowers and shrubs and just keeping a pretty yard.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh. I, well, it's, it's, it's very [LAUGHTER] str-, strange that I got this call because my wife just called me. I was just in the shower after finishing mowing the lawn
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] Oh.
[speaker001:] and, you know, mowing the lawn and removing some old petunias out of the garden, this type of thing is working right in to start planting fall, fall bulbs.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Uh.
[speaker002:] We've had a late fall it seems like, the weather, in fact today it's really warm, and so many of the summer flowers are still pretty enough that you hate to pull them up, but you know you need to pretty soon.
[speaker001:] Well, that's the way this was. The, the petunias were really great. Our mums are, are beautiful,
[speaker002:] Oh.
[speaker001:] Uh, I don't know if we, I don't think we've had a frost up here. I've been, I was down in for a week, so I don't know what happened last week
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] uh, but, uh, it seems like it's, I don't know if it's late. I'm sort of waiting for Indian Summer so I can get a lot of stuff down out here.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Uh, I, I enjoy it. We came here, we just moved into this, well, we moved in in November and put all, all the landscaping in this, this year. We came from nine years in a condo, uh, and working in that condo, you didn't have to do anything
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] you know, unless you really wanted to, so
[speaker002:] So now
[speaker001:] .
[speaker002:] you have the chance to really create and, and spread out.
[speaker001:] Right. You know, I can't, this is my third, third house I think, I've owned, um, but, uh, it's interesting, you know, the only problem is that I do quite a bit of traveling, and it sort of gets away from me
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] if you're not with it. So, but, uh, I, I enjoy most of it, and about this time of year there is, it starts getting a little old, and I start looking forward to, you know, having other things to do with my
[speaker002:] The grass
[speaker001:] .
[speaker002:] not growing so fast [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Well, it is, it is for me because I've been doing a lot of fertilizing. We had a terrible summer, we had a drought
[speaker002:] Oh.
[speaker001:] and, uh, took a lot of watering and a lot of fertilizing, and now it's really growing and I'm trying to establish a good root, root growth
[speaker002:] Um
[speaker001:] you know, for the winter.
[speaker002:] ours seems to have slowed down here. We're not having to mow every week religiously
[speaker001:] Really.
[speaker002:] but we're still fighting bugs, and ready to change some of the, the summer flowers out
[speaker001:] Uh.
[speaker002:] I still have caladiums that are pretty, which is a surprise this late in the year.
[speaker001:] Oh, really?
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Um.
[speaker002:] But like today, it's eighty-five degrees
[speaker001:] Oh, yeah
[speaker002:] it's really strange,
[speaker001:] yeah, I hear that from, my brother-in-law lives in Plano,
[speaker002:] But that'll change
[speaker001:] Yeah [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] real quick [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Well, he always
[speaker002:] We'll wish we'd planted bulbs and pansies already.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] he waits until it gets about seventeen below up here and then he calls us,
[speaker002:] Oh, my gosh.
[speaker001:] yeah it's seventy degrees here in the sunshine. So [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Well, Texas has gotten to where it's a real problem as far as plants, because our summers are so terribly hot
[speaker001:] .
[speaker002:] and we have ice storms every year. And there just aren't that many plants and shrubs that can take both of those
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] extremes. Some of the things that used to be hardy are getting to where they don't make it through the two swings.
[speaker001:] Yeah, that is, I was, you know, I was like conditioned to it
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] they, they have to be hardened to it that's, that's strange with me. You know, you think, Dallas, you know, almost semitropical, you wouldn't have that kind of, that kind of problem, but,
[speaker002:] Well, for the most part we don't, but we have usually just a pocket of really bad hot and really bad cold. Well, the summers have gotten where they're a lot hotter
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] but the, the ice storms really are stressful on all the, the plants that we have around. We've noticed that crepe myrtles don't do as well as they used to
[speaker001:] Really, oh do they.
[speaker002:] and, uh, pittosporum that used to be the kind of things we could plant all the time
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] you, you
[speaker001:] I love,
[speaker002:] really take a chance with them freezing,
[speaker001:] Yeah, I love the, uh, the landscaping, like I say, my brother-in-law. I get to Carrollton quite a bit.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] I go there on business, and I really enjoy getting around and seeing the different areas with different gardens, and Texas is, D-, Dallas is very nice. I really enjoy it there. The landscaping, the homes, the architecture, the whole thing
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] very enjoyable gardens, and my wife and I,
[speaker002:] Except for the lack of trees, out where we are [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Well.
[speaker002:] It was all cotton fields, and when we get to other parts of the country where the trees are so beautiful, we really miss it.
[speaker001:] Yeah, that we have, you know
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Ohio's a very pretty state. We moved, in seventy-six we moved to Chicago, we lived there for five years, and I remember the first time I took my wife there on a house hunt, uh, we were coming in and before the plane landed she looked out the window and she said, she said, there's no trees down there.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] this is Illinois, you're not. And, when we got out to the area where we decided we were going to live and buy a house, there were no trees
[speaker002:] Um.
[speaker001:] because the farmers had cleared all the land
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and now all of a sudden it was being developed, and the first thing I did was planted all kinds of trees,

[speaker001:] [Throat clearing] Well, I haven't heard anything about the proposal myself, but, uh,
[speaker002:] No, I haven't either.
[speaker001:] Uh, I don't know if its their proposal or one that's being seriously kicked around. I've, I've always felt for a long time that I, I think that all young kids ought to do a stint, uh, primarily in the military.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Uh.
[speaker002:] Most countries require that now, they
[speaker001:] Yeah, yeah.
[speaker002:] you know, they have, uh, it mandatory for, for the, the uh
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] at least the young men, I don't know about the young women, I don't know if they have to serve in the military,
[speaker001:] Yeah, a lot, yeah, well, you take Israel
[speaker002:] too.
[speaker001:] I mean, everybody does.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] I don't think it's a bad idea, teaches, teaches a lot. I mean, I went in the service when I was eighteen,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] And, uh, stayed in for ten years.
[speaker002:] Is that right?
[speaker001:] Yeah, uh, did a lot of growing up.
[speaker002:] I bet.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] You have to.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] Yeah, my father had been in the military. I didn't do it myself. My father had and that's, uh, how he put himself through school basically.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] He came from a poor immigrant family, and he didn't have a chance to, uh, you know, the family wasn't wealthy, so he had to do something to,
[speaker001:] Do it himself.
[speaker002:] put himself through school, and he did. And he was very successful.
[speaker001:] Well, my parents wanted to send me to college, and I was dead set against it [breathing].
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] You know, I had wanderlust, you know.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] And I got in, and after, after wasting the first six years, partying and everything else, I decided, uh-huh, time to settle down and do something. So I started to work on my education.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Course my job was such that I didn't, I couldn't do it as much as I wanted
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and still I ended up going two semesters when I got out just to get my degree.
[speaker002:] That's pretty good.
[speaker001:] But, I've been in school ever since [breathing].
[speaker002:] That's good.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Yeah, I guess.
[speaker002:] Yeah, that's, uh, I don't know. There's other kinds of service to the country that could be done, you know,
[speaker001:] Yeah, I mean if you don't like,
[speaker002:] I mean, working in the national parks,
[speaker001:] Sure.
[speaker002:] Uh, working, clean up the roadsides
[speaker001:] Exactly.
[speaker002:] I mean, I've always felt that people on welfare should be required to spend at least part of their time, *why no slash?
[speaker001:] Oh yeah, absol-,
[speaker002:] not all the time because that takes away from their opportunity to look for a job, but [beep] [three times] at least some of their time to look for, to go out and clean up the roads.
[speaker001:] Absolutely.
[speaker002:] You know, I mean,
[speaker001:] All these, all this money that we're throwing away to pay people to go out and do things when we're paying all these welfare recipients, and if they're able-bodied people, I don't see any problem at all with having them go out there and, and, if nothing else, get a group of them together and take them around to old folks
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] places and let them cut the yards, paint the houses.
[speaker002:] Yeah, we'd learn service to other people
[speaker001:] Sure, sure.
[speaker002:] in this country.
[speaker001:] So I'm, get something out of that money.
[speaker002:] Country would benefit,
[speaker001:] Yeah I've,
[speaker002:] I mean, uh,
[speaker001:] yeah, yeah, my next door neighbor when I was growing up, worked for the unemployment division, and his sole job was just tracking down people who were getting benefits and able-bodied and,
[speaker002:] That right.
[speaker001:] Yeah, and he, he had all kinds of horror stories. You know, these guys go down there and get their unemployment checks, and, back, back in those days they also use to give [beep] you, [beep] uh, booklets good for, uh, [beep] clothing and gas, and things like this [beep].
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] They [beep] get all this stuff together [beep] and sit down and have poker games
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] you know, and I'm, I jus-, I have a hard time dealing with that.
[speaker002:] What I hear one time, I think it was on Paul Harvey's, {F uh, radio segment, } that he said that if the money that goes into welfare each year was to be given directly to the people without all the middle people in the government bureaucracy, each person would receive like forty-five thousand dollars.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] I mean, I was astounded. I don't even make that.
[speaker001:] No, I know. I, you, you think about, you think about the layer of bureaucracy between the money and the recipient,
[speaker002:] Yeah, and somebody's taking that away.
[speaker001:] and, and there's probably, there's easily probably six or seven times that amount being spent on the bureaucracy.
[speaker002:] Yeah, no doubt.
[speaker001:] You know, it's, it's, it's totally ridiculous, and now, I, I, I, uh, started out when I first got in graduate school I was going into public administration, and, uh, quite honestly I just got so fed up with it I just couldn't stand it any more.
[speaker002:] Is that right,
[speaker001:] Yeah, I mean, this is the kind of thing you look at.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] You sit there and when you're writing up budgets, you wonder, okay, how much money do we need. Well, you need X number dollars for the recipients but you need X number dollars to administer the program. Well just ridiculous.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] This is ridiculous.
[speaker002:] It's sad.
[speaker001:] It is, it's pathetic. I mean, there's got to be a different way. There's got to be a better way. But it'll never happen. I mean, these
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] these people out here getting that money are big voting blocks.
[speaker002:] Yeah. What would happen if the required young people to do service to the country, what should they get in return, I wonder. Like, uh,
[speaker001:] I think, I think there ought to be some kind of assistance as far as, uh, and I would limit it strictly to something like tuition assistance.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Give an incentive.
[speaker002:] Educational or vocational training or something.
[speaker001:] Yeah. Something that's going to help them along the way.
[speaker002:] And they'll help the country eventually, too,
[speaker001:] Sure, I mean,
[speaker002:] because rather than having a bunch of uneducated people we can have educated people,
[speaker001:] Well, this, I mean
[speaker002:] and that's only going to help.
[speaker001:] I mean, look at the statistics, I mean, it's sad. One in five Americans can't read
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] adults, that is, can't even read. And, and we've got the lowest rates of the civilized countries in science and math.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] I mean, what are we, what are we becoming? We're becoming a service country.
[speaker002:] As opposed to what we were twenty years ago.
[speaker001:] Yeah, we were an industrial giant, and now we're no-, we're not going to do it because everybody is beating us at the game. We taught them how to do it, and they, they did it better than we do.
[speaker002:] Yeah [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Simple as that.
[speaker002:] because they have the ambition, I guess.
[speaker001:] yeah, simple as that.
[speaker002:] Yeah, which is good for them, but on the other hand, we kind of lose out.
[speaker001:] Yeah, it's terrible for us.
[speaker002:] I think that if, uh, young people had service to the country might give them more ambition.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] Because they learn that serving other people is a good thing.
[speaker001:] Yeah, and, and it can be good for them, too.
[speaker002:] Yeah, oh yeah.
[speaker001:] I mean, even, even the greedy kids that we've got now...
[speaker002:] Oh god, you go to the mall and you see, you know, fourteen year old kids flaunting money, because the parents give them money to go down and play video games all night, you know
[speaker001:] I know.
[speaker002:] for what.
[speaker001:] I know.
[speaker002:] Give me the money and I'll, I'll teach them something good [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Well, you know, you know why they do it is so they can get them out of the house.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Yeah, uh, that's my other complaint. Parents aren't parents any more.
[speaker002:] No. They've, they've relinquished their parenting.
[speaker001:] Yeah. One of the other subjects is do you think the public school systems are in trouble?
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Well, as a substitute teacher for a year, I, I can say yes.
[speaker002:] Yeah, I mean, I talked with somebody else about that another time, and, you know, when I's in graduate school working on my master's degree in math, I was, uh, teaching as part of my, part of the program. And I just love teaching. That was a lot, that's probably the most fun I had. And, uh, it helped me out because I learned
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] things and learned how to do things differently.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And when, uh, when come time to get out of school, I thought, Boy, I'd like to teach. But you know, for, for what.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] You know, I don't want to live in a little one bedroom apartment the rest of my life.
[speaker001:] Exactly.
[speaker002:] I mean, that, that's a sad thing to think, and that's kind of selfish on my part, and I admit that,
[speaker001:] Well, in a way it is, but you have to look out for yourself
[speaker002:] Yeah, that's right.
[speaker001:] you know, I mean, that's some-, and when we pay garbage men more than we pay teachers,
[speaker002:] That's wrong.
[speaker001:] Yeah, gosh, I mean,
[speaker002:] I'm not saying that garbage men should be paid less, I saying teachers should be paid more.
[speaker001:] No, I mean yeah. They do an absolutely necessary job, I mean, I, I have a great deal of admiration for these people who can go out there and do that.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] But, uh, I mean, there's, there's a sense of priorities here, too.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] You know, we need, what's more important, picking up the garbage or educating our kids.
[speaker002:] Yeah [LAUGHTER]. They both have their place.
[speaker001:] Yeah, they, they, sure.
[speaker002:] But, you know, when it gets right down to it,
[speaker001:] I mean, one's import-, I mean, on the other hand, I mean, you take a garbage man in New York City starts out at twenty-six thousand dollars.
[speaker002:] That's pretty good.
[speaker001:] Well I bet you there's a whole bunch of homeless people up there who would take that job for thirteen thousand dollars a year.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] I mean, my other pet peeve is unions.
[speaker002:] Yeah, oh yeah.
[speaker001:] You know, it's just, it's, it's ridiculous the way unions have gone. There was a time when unions were needed.
[speaker002:] And they served a good function.
[speaker001:] And they served a good function, but there are enough laws on the books now that unions are outdated, and they're only there to perpetuate their own, their own power structure.
[speaker002:] I remember, the company my dad worked for, the people there went on strike against the management. It was a steel manufacturing place, and they, uh, this was during a time when the import steel was so cheap, and they were having a hard time. And they told the strikers there, look, we need you to come back and get this stuff done. Or else we're going to be out of business. And they wouldn't come back, so they went bankrupt.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] And, and they all lost their jobs.
[speaker001:] Sure, and, and
[speaker002:] And it's like, you know.
[speaker001:] and that's really what happened to the steel industry in this country.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] So many times, I mean, you had the, uh, the coal miners and steel workers going out at the same time. And, well, that took care of that industry
[speaker002:] That's right.
[speaker001:] and, and, then, and I'll tell you, Detroit worked awfully hard on, on stopping car manufacturing in this country.
[speaker002:] And they're trying to do that now with the imports.
[speaker001:] Yeah, I mean, you know, we've never caught up, and I don't think we ever will.
[speaker002:] It'll be a tough road, though.
[speaker001:] Yeah, I mean, here it is, and we've got, we've got to go into partnership with the Japanese to build cars.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] You know [LAUGHTER]. And they only did it because they, I guess they were embarrassed
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] that they're so good at it [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] That's about right.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Gosh. Yeah, well, back to the original subject, yeah, I think youngsters ought to go out and do some public service, I don't care what kind it is.
[speaker002:] It teaches them pride in their country.
[speaker001:] Yeah, and pride in themselves, too.
[speaker002:] That's right.
[speaker001:] They could, they could, I mean, you could organize something just within your community.
[speaker002:] Yeah,
[speaker001:] same old thing. I mean,
[speaker002:] that's right. That's like Eagle Scouts.
[speaker001:] Sure. Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And that's a great idea.
[speaker001:] I think they ought to take them and, I don't know, just have sort of like a, a, a manpower pool and say Okay, look, we need somebody...

[speaker001:] Before the one will take, uh, okay, let's see, I guess, uh, I can start. I'm actually, we're actually trying to find one now because
[speaker002:] Are you really?
[speaker001:] our family's growing. Yeah. Uh, so I'm looking at, uh, something larger than what we have. We've got, like, an eighty-four Charger that's about gone and a, uh, an eighty-nine Horizon. So, I'm looking for something, uh, littler
[speaker002:] Uh-huh, which are both kind of small.
[speaker001:] bigger, yeah. Uh, so we were thinking mini van for a while and, uh, we're looking at, uh, some just four door, five passenger sedans
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] as well.
[speaker002:] Are you looking for an American car or, you open to buying foreign cars?
[speaker001:] Uh, I don't really have a preference either way I guess.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] You know, it's, you know, it, I guess the American cars had a bad reputation but
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] I haven't had any real substantial problems with the
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] ones I've had.
[speaker002:] Personally, I have a Japanese car right now, and I really like it a lot. Uh, I think the Japanese really build good cars
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] and I know that kind of rubs against the grain right now in the whole, uh, you know, buy American, keep American auto workers working right now, but I feel that the Japanese have really produced a much higher quality product than our, uh, car manufacturers have for a while.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] If I were to buy another car, I would be, uh, I would be partial to buying another Japanese car, but I would also look at American cars, but when I bought the car that I bought now, I did that also and I just felt that the Japanese car was a much better product.
[speaker001:] Yeah, I mean, e-,
[speaker002:] So, if I were,
[speaker001:] even if it's just details, it seems like, uh
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] they, you know, I j-, there's a door seal that s-, doesn't quite seal and you have to take it back every once in a while. It's clearly just a, a design problem there.
[speaker002:] Right, it is. Uh, I'm kind of, right now, the next car I buy is going to be sort of a sports car. I would really like to have a sports car. Uh [throat clearing], I don't really, I don't have a family, so I don't need a, a mini van or such to, uh, [throat clearing] haul people around in.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] So I'm looking for more a, a two passenger car that, uh,
[speaker001:] Oh, like a Miata or something like that?
[speaker002:] Well, I like the Miata, but I don't like it enough to buy it. I would buy something, actually the, the car that I really like right now is an Eagle Talon, which is an American car.
[speaker001:] Um.
[speaker002:] But, uh, something along that lines.
[speaker001:] Interesting.
[speaker002:] Uh, because I have a, an economy car right now, which is okay, but
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] uh, I think I, I'd like to move on to something a little better.
[speaker001:] That's interesting. Yeah, I guess probably the factors we'd use to compare are a little different because I look for, you know, size and
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] safety, and then mileage. Probably,
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] Uh,
[speaker002:] That's, when I bought the car that I bought, I was looking for mileage, and I was looking for, uh, dependability and something that was going to last a long time. I was g-, that I would get a, for the money that I was going to spend, that I would get a return that was, that was worth that money.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] So,
[speaker001:] Yeah I c-, I think in terms of computer terminology, I look at, you know, price performance and things like that.
[speaker002:] Right, exactly.
[speaker001:] And then a little bit at life expectancy, I guess, but it, you know
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] depends on what you, what you pay initially. But, you know
[speaker002:] That's right.
[speaker001:] I've got a hundred and twenty-five thousand miles on the Charger. Actually
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] it was my wife's car that she brought into the marriage and she got just a commute between Cincinnati and Dayton.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] It's, you know, we, we had to replace the friction plate and the transmission at thirty thousand miles, but
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] uh, the other ninety four thousand have been just fine [LAUGHTER],
[speaker002:] [Sniffing].
[speaker001:] with it, so,
[speaker002:] Okay.
[speaker001:] But, uh,
[speaker002:] Uh, I've had, uh, I've had one or two American cars I think, and, and they were okay. I had a Pontiac once and, and I never had a problem with it, but, uh, my mother had a Dodge at one point and I, I had driven it a few times and I really did not feel that it, that I would buy a Dodge [LAUGHTER]
[speaker001:] Um.
[speaker002:] j-, just from, well, actually, I had a, uh, a Dodge Omni at one point
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] and that was, I think, what really prejudiced me against American cars was because I did not feel that it was a very quality, uh, car.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] So, I guess you'd have to say, if I was looking, I would definitely be looking for a foreign car.
[speaker001:] That's interesting. But, yeah, it, it's hard to beat some of the, uh, like, I guess, in particular, we're looking at a, like a ninety-one Corsica, uh, buy back at a, they say G M sponsored auction, but I think they're obliged to have these things because Hertz and Avis and those folks have it in their contract that
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] they can sell it back to G M after, you know, it's, after they've used it for six months and put
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] you know, twelve or fifteen thousand miles,
[speaker002:] [Throat clearing].
[speaker001:] on it and you can get those for like eight thousand bucks if you,
[speaker002:] Which is a good deal.
[speaker001:] Yeah, because I guess, uh, I mean, well, ninety-twos, granted, but the new ones, you know
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] fourteen to sixteen is what they go for
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] on the lot, so all the depreciation has been taken off and, s-, the dealer comes out okay
[speaker002:] Yeah that,
[speaker001:] you know, I don't know what kind of, I don't know what G M corporate, kind of hit the, I don't know what kind of hit they take on it, but sounds like everybody's had their chance to make their money off it and [LAUGHTER],
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] Yeah, I'm sure they did.
[speaker001:] So, but, uh, I don't know, we keep looking at that mini van. It's just, you know, we can get a, like a Caravan
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] for, at twelve, five
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] but that's a little bit more than we want to spend right now. But, uh, uh, it's interesting, but, uh, I don't know, if, if, uh, it seems to be,

[speaker002:] okay universal health insurance right
[speaker001:] okay um that's right
[speaker002:] um
[speaker001:] what would we like to say I think
[speaker002:] well I think universal health insurance like national health like what Canada has is that what you're you're thinking this subject is about
[speaker001:] um-hum I think that's what the subject is about
[speaker002:] did you read uh the article in the paper today about this particular subject
[speaker001:] in the Dallas the Morning Times I guess I did not
[speaker002:] yeah uh the state of Washington and the state of Minnesota is uh going to begin testing a program a state funded program for citizens of those two states and there's fourteen other uh states that are considering it least according to the article in the paper this morning I think it's a trend that's that's that's uh probably may go nationwide eventually because I think national health is something that we all need it's getting to a point that you have to have it you have to have some form of health insurance and extremely expensive though
[speaker001:] well it's been interesting that we yes so we live in a society though where everyone if you ask them on polls will um say that they think that everyone has a right to health care
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] and yet I don't think we've ever quite decided who's really supposed to pay for it and
[speaker002:] well that's the thing you know uh unfortunately the ones that currently pay and pay the premiums for health insurance are are paying for the people that don't have health insurance
[speaker001:] which is why people are talking about we ought to just admit it perhaps and then try and somehow subsidize it in a way that's more fair
[speaker002:] yeah I don't think you um
[speaker001:] you have health insurance through your company
[speaker002:] yes I do uh through my company yes but I have been in a situation uh recently where I was laid off from a position as a sales manager of a company and was off work for about a year and my wife developed cancer and we didn't have any insurance
[speaker001:] oh my goodness
[speaker002:] and it was uh
[speaker001:] that must've been horrible
[speaker002:] go to Parkland type situation
[speaker001:] how was your care at Parkland
[speaker002:] uh because it was a life threatening situation it was very good uh as it as it turned out one of the top um people or one of the top doctors in the state that is involved in cancer treatment was at Parkland
[speaker001:] but Camp Parkland is not free either
[speaker002:] no it's not free but uh
[speaker001:] is it affordable
[speaker002:] it's it's a situation that because I didn't have any insurance and I was on unemployment it was paid by the county
[speaker001:] so you did have a good experience
[speaker002:] I had a bad experience as it turned out um I was fortunate that there was Parkland
[speaker001:] is your wife better I hope
[speaker002:] uh no she passed away oh that's all right that happens
[speaker001:] I'm real sorry sure it does happen but it's very sad
[speaker002:] yeah but in any event um I'm in favor of national health
[speaker001:] well so am I actually um I'm a pediatrician and I feel very strongly about um children and um developed very strong feelings about this during our measles epidemic last year
[speaker002:] if I had to vote for it oh is that right um-hum um-hum
[speaker001:] where we certainly proved that we're not doing a very good job with preventive health care among children and particularly the children who need it most so um I'm really quite active in trying to uh uh be proactive at least to for children's issues it's very complex very complicated but um I just strongly believe that all children have a right to immunization glasses hearing aids basic health benefits
[speaker002:] well I when I grew up and I grew up in south central Kansas um we had and my mom worked for the health department the county health department and we had X rays every year we had a dentist come to our school and uh check our teeth once a year at least um we had all our flu shots taken care of our measles mumps rubella and all that other stuff and uh when my children were growing up
[speaker001:] um
[speaker002:] we didn't have that we had to pay for it which I wasn't opposed to paying for it I had the money to pay for it but I'm sure that there were people that don't
[speaker001:] well and the costs of so much has gone up so much the cost of immunizations for example um and just the legal the legal benefits um that has really forced people into doing a lot of things unnecessarily et cetera
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] so well I don't know it's it is interesting in case you didn't know Texas leads the nation in uninsured children thirty one percent of all Texas children
[speaker002:] did not know that
[speaker001:] do not have insurance and are not on Medicaid so uh one out of every three children has nothing to reimburse them for their health care and I work in the children's Parkland system and it's pretty overwhelming to me
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] but um it's pretty hard to be indigent and to be dependent upon indigent health care systems in Dallas county

[speaker001:] okay
[speaker002:] well are you a fisher person are you
[speaker001:] yes I love to fish
[speaker002:] what kind great what kind of fishing do you do
[speaker001:] well it's mostly from the rivers and lakes
[speaker002:] in California
[speaker001:] and yes and from the banks I don't like to go out on boats
[speaker002:] oh well what kind of fish do they have in your neck of the woods
[speaker001:] well it uh down here we usually catch catfish and bass stripped bass you know where I fish and trout up at uh Lake Shasta when I go up there
[speaker002:] uh-huh oh
[speaker001:] but I like it all except uh really I don't I don't really care that much for the trout I think I had rather have a catfish than I would a trout
[speaker002:] well I I don't blame you I grew up in Nebraska and uh grew up fish cat fishing in the Little Blue River and then uh we moved to uh South Dakota and uh did a lot of walleye fishing on the Missouri River
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] and uh now that we are down here I think a lot of people do some uh bass fishing and striped bass fishing but uh I still uh I am sort of a catfish man at heart
[speaker001:] I see well uh like in uh Iowa and Nebraska those little bullheads they look just like catfish huh
[speaker002:] yep yeah they do
[speaker001:] you know that's what I mean cause I am from Iowa
[speaker002:] oh
[speaker001:] and uh you know we use to catch those little bullheads and that's they look just like baby catfish
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] you know uh did you get to go fishing very often
[speaker002:] oh yeah I like to fish the only problem is I just moved to Texas so it's been a little over a year now but uh
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] I I am not quite sure what residency is for a fishing license here and I so really I haven't gone fishing for about two years now
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] and it's driving me crazy but uh one of these days I will go over to uh Lake Louisville or uh what is it uh Ray Hubbard Lake Ray Hubbard and get some fishing in and get it out of my system for a while
[speaker001:] uh-huh well uh you like to eat them after you catch them
[speaker002:] well yeah sure you bet
[speaker001:] because there's are a lot of people that like to go fishing but they don't like to eat them
[speaker002:] well most yeah most of the time uh if we catch something we'll take it home and eat it um
[speaker001:] you know
[speaker002:] and you're right I mean I like to fish for trout and they are really uh uh good fighters but uh if I went to a restaurant that probably wouldn't be the first thing I would order if I had a choice of fish on the menu
[speaker001:] yeah I know if I go to a restaurant and order fish it's usually either salmon or uh red snapper
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] you know
[speaker002:] well uh so do you just uh uh skin your catfish or do you fillet them out how do you how do you
[speaker001:] we skin skin them yeah yeah yeah just cut their heads off and skin them and then I just uh flour them salt and pepper them and cook them
[speaker002:] do you okay yeah
[speaker001:] I don't put that corn meal on them
[speaker002:] no
[speaker001:] you know uh that's the way my mother taught me to fry them so
[speaker002:] well that's how we do it too uh although we uh use to set some uh trout lines out and we've caught you know fourteen fifteen pound catfish and sometimes those are good to uh do on a barbecue grill
[speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh
[speaker002:] and just uh leave the skin on and uh do it with uh butter on uh on on tin foil
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] and then the skin just basically scrapes right off and uh we're and it really tastes pretty good
[speaker001:] yeah well you know I don't think I've ever tried cooking those uh catfish quite that big uh most of them are just the small you know pan frying ones
[speaker002:] there uh yeah
[speaker001:] so uh
[speaker002:] well I am hoping one of these days I'll have the opportunity to catch a big catfish like that on uh a rod and reel but uh so far it's just been on uh on the trout lines so
[speaker001:] um  wouldn't that be something
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] it's a thrill when you get a big fish though isn't it
[speaker002:] yeah and uh well and up in uh South Dakota on the in the Missouri River there we've uh tied into a few northern pike and uh
[speaker001:] you know
[speaker002:] they really uh in in when the water is cold they are very slow moving fish but in the summer time they'll uh give you a run for your money
[speaker001:] uh-huh so when you were when you did go fishing where did you go you moved there from where Nebraska
[speaker002:] uh-huh yeah
[speaker001:] so it was just like the rivers and uh and the lakes I suppose huh
[speaker002:] in in Nebraska
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] uh yeah most of the time uh we just fished uh in the river although there were a lot of sand pits and things like that that we could fish in
[speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh
[speaker002:] and a lot of them ended up being close to the river so if the river ever uh flooded you know then obviously they would dump some catfish and bass and stuff into the into the ponds and the sand pits
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] so we'd do a lot of fishing there too but uh South Dakota didn't really have much for

[speaker001:] Uh, national health insurance, I think, is a problem inasmuch as the quality of health care that people would receive.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] Yeah, because, uh, the articles that I've read regarding national health service in Canada and England has indicated that, uh, what i-, stay, stay in line for, uh, four hours to get an aspirin from a doctor.
[speaker002:] Right. Yeah, I'm, [throat clearing] I'm sort of mixed on this. I think that the, the answer [throat clearing] may lie in, uh, not in so much a, uh, national kind of medical thing that li-, like England has but more of a, um, [throat clearing] national insurance, uh, sort of clearinghouse or whatever. I think that, uh, too many, uh, the problem with, with right now is w-, that we've got too many different health insurances that people have to go through and, and I think that, I think you, you mentioned Canada. I think that they have a system where, uh, they, the government deals with the, with, I mean, you, you go to whoever you want but file through one, one s-, particular,
[speaker001:] Um, I see.
[speaker002:] uh, setup and that way [throat clearing] they, they are able to reduce prices because they've, you know, it's, it's all one, one centralized thing.
[speaker001:] Yeah. Well, I, I think that, uh, again having gone through a period when I was out of work and had to buy health insurance on my own,
[speaker002:] [Very faint] [throat clearing].
[speaker001:] if you don't have a company supporting you in the, uh, picking up the major portion of your health insurance,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] the cost is p-, almost prohibitive.
[speaker002:] Right. Uh, [throat clearing] I, I was listening, uh, on the radio the other day and they were talking that, s-, s-, something like this, I think they were talking about the fact that, um, the money that could be saved, um, [throat clearing] in administrative costs and so forth nationwide by consolidating into sort of a national insurance provider, um, could, uh, could, they could make it, i-, i-, provide health insurance to, to people who couldn't afford it just by the money they would save.
[speaker001:] Yeah. [lipsmack] Uh, we're currently, where I'm working now, under Blue Cross.
[speaker002:] [Very faint] [throat clearing].
[speaker001:] I don't know what the total cost of the program is but for dependent coverage I'm paying a hundred and seventy dollars a, a month or something like that.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] So I assume that probably the total cove-, cost is probably,
[speaker002:] [Throat clearing].
[speaker001:] three fifty to four hundred. They're probably picking up about half of it.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] And that's a pretty good policy, but if you had something like one of these, uh,
[speaker002:] [Throat clearing].
[speaker001:] health maintenance programs,
[speaker002:] [Throat clearing].
[speaker001:] or one of, whatever the type name is,
[speaker002:] Yeah, H M O.
[speaker001:] H M O, uh, where the, uh, where you go to the doctor and it only costs you ten dollars and the insurance picks up the rest.
[speaker002:] [Very faint] [throat clearing].
[speaker001:] If you tried to buy something like that, I'm prob-, it would probably be five or six hundred dollars a month for just the cost of something.
[speaker002:] Yeah, and they're, [throat clearing] they're fairly expensive. I, I, um, I ha-, I was on an H M O, uh, up until last year
[speaker001:] [Very faint] Yeah.
[speaker002:] and, uh, through work. And it was, I forget how much I paid a month but it was much, you know, is at least twice if not more expensive than [throat clearing] the regular health care.
[speaker001:] [Very faint] Yeah.
[speaker002:] And, uh, the reason I, I quite was because of, uh, not because I didn't like it, I, I really kind of did. Uh, the reason I quite was just because the, the doctor a, a certain doctor that we en-, enjoyed going to was no longer associated with that H M O so we, my wife decided she wanted to, to stay with that doctor,
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] so, [throat clearing] we went to the, to the, the medical insurance that we have at, here at work,
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] and, uh, [breathing] I, uh, I like the, I like the convenience of the H M O in, in a certain respect because it, uh, even though you're, once you find the doctor that you like it's not a problem. You know, a lot of people complain saying well, I don't want to, uh, have to be told who I need to go to but, you know, [NOISE] if you don't have a doctor anyway normally it doesn't really make much difference.
[speaker001:] Yeah, that's right.
[speaker002:] Because you can, you know, if, if you find someone you really like and then, we did find several good doctors. And, um, [throat clearing] like you say it's, uh, five dollars an office visit. And, um, my wife was in the hospital had our, had our daughter and I think her total bill was around three hundred dollars
[speaker001:] Oh, goodness.
[speaker002:] for everything. Uh, that included, uh, you know, the doctors, the time, the, the hospital a-, an-, everything.
[speaker001:] Delivery room and everything.
[speaker002:] Delivery room and everything.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] Include-, including a private room because there was a little extra that she had to pay but that was, that was still included in that pr-, that cost so.
[speaker001:] [Very faint] Yeah.
[speaker002:] [Throat clearing] It's really nice because they, th-, you know, their, their attitude is different than, than a regular, uh, insurance, uh, health insurance, uh, the, in, in a, H M O, you know, they're trying to prevent a problem by, by keeping the cost down at the front end,
[speaker001:] [Very faint] Yeah.
[speaker002:] you know, and have you come in, you know, they, they charge five dollars a s-,
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] you know, pop, you're more willing to go in and try,
[speaker001:] .
[speaker002:] to take care of a problem before it grows big.
[speaker001:] As to a company's benefit,
[speaker002:] [Very faint] [throat clearing].
[speaker001:] to have a program like that because it keeps their employees healthy and on the job.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Because they don't have to worry about going in and, and paying,
[speaker002:] [Very faint] [throat clearing].
[speaker001:] uh, seventy-five dollars to have the doctor look at you for ten minutes.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] [Very faint] That's a,
[speaker002:] Yeah, I, I, uh, I, I really liked it. We both, my wife and I both did. You, you don't have to worry about filling out forms, uh, you know, for reimbursement and all or, you know, getting paid eight percent of, of whatever. You just pay the, the five dollars right then and then you're done with it.
[speaker001:] Yeah. But here again the, the doctor's practices in hospitals,
[speaker002:] [Throat clearing].
[speaker001:] have gon-, become fairly sizable businesses under themselves now.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Uh, you take a hospital, uh, the physical plant itself, you have to pay your share of the operating of that eight story building, uh, when the e-, rooms are empty.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] So, they spread the costs out over, uh, all the patient costs and, uh, that's how you come up with aspirin that costs four dollars apiece and things like that.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] The horror stories that you hear about people going into the hospital for a week and, uh, it being,
[speaker002:] [Throat clearing].
[speaker001:] a four thousand dollar bill.
[speaker002:] Well, they, and you know, they're also p-, take-, they're taking up the cost of people who can't pay.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] You know, they, they get a lot of, uh, a lot of, uh, people who are j-, just have to be there and can't afford it and so they, they know they're not going to get pa-,
[speaker001:] [Very faint] Yeah.
[speaker002:] you know, get money from them so they,
[speaker001:] [Very faint] Yeah.
[speaker002:] have to absorb it somewhere else.
[speaker001:] Yeah. My daughter and son-in-law had a baby,
[speaker002:] [Throat clearing].
[speaker001:] here about, uh, what, he-, he'll be three in August.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] And, uh, their insurance plan that they're under encourages you to shorten your stay in the hospital.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] And like she went in, she had the baby and she was out in two days time.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] And it was treated almost like it was an outpatient visit to the hospital,
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] the, the deductibles didn't apply.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] And so that's one way, one way the insurance companies are trying to hold costs down is by, uh, okay, if you'll shorten your stay then we will, uh, waive the deductible.
[speaker002:] [Throat clearing] Right. Our, our insurance is, uh, is doing something similar where they're also going [throat clearing] to mor-,

[speaker001:] uh Greg uh I'm I'm not familiar I think uh you guys in Indiana don't you have the the death penalty
[speaker002:] yeah we do have the death penalty here it's not exercised very often but we do have it
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] I believe it I can't even remember the last execution we had here actually
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] uh personally I'm in favor of capital punishment I know there's a lot of lot of problems with it but uh
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] seems to me that some crimes are just so heinous that that the person just uh I feel doesn't deserve to live doesn't deserve for the tax payers to spend however many thousands of dollars it costs a year to keep them in in prison for life
[speaker001:] right
[speaker002:] uh I know there's a lot of problems with that like well they say okay if you declare someone put them on death row and execute them well then ten late years later you find out that he really didn't do it then that life was wasted but
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] just seems like in some cases that it's a it's a good policy
[speaker001:] um-hum uh I I tend to agree with you uh I've changed my views over uh even even within the last few years uh to be honest uh  uh when I was in college when I was an undergraduate I was a member of Amnesty International
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] and uh of course at that time you know I thought uh how it's it was stupid to kill anybody for uh you know that the eye for an eye was a stupid argument
[speaker002:] right
[speaker001:] but the uh the more now I live in downtown Dallas and I uh you know I've seen uh I've seen cases on in the news and all where where you know uh a a
[speaker002:] right
[speaker001:] person who had murdered a person is back on the street and then commits another murder
[speaker002:] right
[speaker001:] I think that maybe a a good solution to capital punishment might be uh reserve it solely for uh repeat offenders of a crime like uh murder
[speaker002:] that's a that's a thought that I had never really had on that which which seems pretty sensible
[speaker001:] yeah uh I yeah it seems sensible and and fail-safe I uh I I don't you know not completely fail-safe but if a man's convicted of two murders uh you know there's a pretty good chance that something's wrong
[speaker002:] right
[speaker001:] uh  I also uh to tell you how liberal I have turned uh toward this or or or whatever side that is I've kind of chosen uh I believe that that uh
[speaker002:] right yeah
[speaker001:] big time drug importers like uh say Noriega for example these these people need to be uh eliminated uh
[speaker002:] uh-huh uh-huh
[speaker001:] from society and I think I think the death penalty is the best choice for those people because uh really any kind of uh uh jail sentence for them is just another chance to uh create another power structure
[speaker002:] yeah you're you're right there uh
[speaker001:] you know the
[speaker002:] I just basically my views I guess they tend to be more economically oriented in that I just
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] you you know they come out with these figures that it costs fifty thousand dollars taxpayer dollars a year to keep someone alive in jail when they're going to be there for life they're never going to be rehabilitated
[speaker001:] right right
[speaker002:] I mean I don't believe that the prison system that we have today does much towards rehabilitation to begin with so to me I'm paying taxes you know twenty percent of my check or whatever
[speaker001:] right um-hum
[speaker002:] to keep somebody alive who I in my mind shouldn't be there in the first place and is never going to be a valuable or worthwhile part of society so I I'm all in favor of it
[speaker001:] um-hum  uh  do you uh are there cases where you think that that uh the capital capital punishment shouldn't be uh uh sentenced
[speaker002:] well I I really don't know on that question it just seems like for instance the Jeffrey Dahlmer case I mean I I don't really think that this person is going to ever be a worthwhile part of society I hope the guy never gets back out on the streets
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] and in that case Wisconsin doesn't have a death penalty so he's going to be sentenced to life imprisonment
[speaker001:] right
[speaker002:] and I think that that he should not be allowed to live but you know then you're kind of playing God which is never never a good thing to do but cases where I think the death penalty should be withheld
[speaker001:] that's true yeah right
[speaker002:] uh not really that I can think of I I would I would be in favor of the death penalty in things like you know murders and like you said repeat murders or serial killers
[speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh
[speaker002:] uh I don't really agree with the uh death penalty for people like Noriega and such as that I think that they're they're operating on a more I mean I know that they're causing massive problems in society up here but I don't really think that that it's it's in our power to take these people from a sovereign state and say you don't deserve to live because they're feeding our consumer needs
[speaker001:] right sure yeah I understand I understand your point yeah uh of course you know with uh with with Dahlmer now uh you you realize that Ohio I think it's Ohio uh gets to try him next and they do have the death penalty
[speaker002:] um-hum yeah
[speaker001:] yeah  so uh that was a curious case I
[speaker002:] yeah yeah that is very curious
[speaker001:] uh uh that was something is sort of nightmarish to say the least
[speaker002:] yeah that's that's right
[speaker001:] uh well here in Texas we uh I think even even this last week uh last week they had another they uh you know they use their capital punishment by lethal injection uh uh

[speaker001:] hi so uh what was the last car repair you had
[speaker002:] just recently I was kind of laughing when I when I heard the switchboard talking about the question because uh I had to have my uh radiator flushed
[speaker001:] oh
[speaker002:] and it was getting rusty and the thing that they forgot to do was to um to also look at the hose and I had gone about oh two days with my new radiator flushed and the hose burst so I was stranded out on the highway
[speaker001:] oh no did you crack the block or what
[speaker002:] no I I I didn't do that thank goodness but um there seemed to be enough antifreeze in there you know left to do that but it cost me all kind of money you know to have that repaired after they said they were gonna they had repaired it t so that was that was a horrible experience just recently
[speaker001:] yeah I'll see you got lucky didn't ruin the whole engine though that can be pretty serious
[speaker002:] yes yes I know I know what about you
[speaker001:] oh I guess it's been awhile for me I'd say it's been about a year
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] yeah I had the uh the water pump break on my car
[speaker002:] oh
[speaker001:] yeah I was traveling uh I was going on my way home from Thanksgiving and it broke like in the middle of nowhere
[speaker002:] um-hum uh-huh
[speaker001:] so I had to get it towed and then fixed and big pain
[speaker002:] uh-huh oh oh I know I know especially what if you're out on the highway
[speaker001:] yeah that's where I was luckily someone came by and gave me a ride
[speaker002:] um-hum um-hum I know well you know I uh living in Dallas you know we've got uh bumper to bumper eight lanes of traffic and uh that was that was horrible
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] you know to have the you know your car is fuming and everything it's already a hundred degrees you don't need that too oh shoot but my car is getting old see it's about six years old now so
[speaker001:] yeah so is mine
[speaker002:] yeah so I got it right out of college and so it's uh it's starting to show that wear and tear now
[speaker001:] yeah I'm hoping mine gets me through I got until May till I'm out so if my car lasts that long I'll be okay
[speaker002:] uh-huh uh-huh yeah that uh that was my graduation present to myself so yeah yeah I know so but gosh it's really starting to to wear so I've been thinking especially now is a good time to buy a car
[speaker001:] oh that's nice yeah
[speaker002:] gonna because I can't uh I don't know if I wanna you know pay all these repairs now to start getting it fixed when it's starting to breakdown
[speaker001:] yeah I don't wanna do too much on mine because it'll be worth more than the car and that it it's not worth it
[speaker002:] um-hum um-hum yeah that's true I agree with you there so I don't know uh because I I need to have it tuned you know tuned up and I don't know replace some of the belts and I was looking at the uh
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] tires need to be replaced and so I was thinking gee that's a lot of money I'm might as well buy me a new car for that
[speaker001:] yeah I got new tires last winter too so I'm like that's the last major purchase for this thing it's not worth it
[speaker002:] uh-huh well you have to Pennsylvania boy you have to really have your car winterized and stuff huh
[speaker001:] yeah yeah we get some killer winters up here in the mountains
[speaker002:] um-hum oh really oh okay so
[speaker001:] yeah lot of snow and a lot of cold
[speaker002:] uh-huh well especially don't you have what a lot of salt on the ground
[speaker001:] yeah at times there's a lot of it you got to like clean out the underneath of your car all the time when you get a chance
[speaker002:] uh-huh yeah yeah well rust and the and the body too huh
[speaker001:] yeah I haven't had a big problem with that though
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] so I've been pretty lucky there
[speaker002:] well I think they got the new Z Bart stuff and everything to where you can um
[speaker001:] yeah that's for usually pretty good you just rinse it off after the winter's over and done with it
[speaker002:] uh-huh yeah and go like that so
[speaker001:] yeah I usually like to do most repairs on my own though
[speaker002:] do you
[speaker001:] yeah just because that way I know what's wrong with my car and what it needs and what it really doesn't
[speaker002:] uh-huh uh-huh
[speaker001:] yeah plus if something goes wrong I'll know who to blame
[speaker002:] well I I think I'm getting too old for all that my uh I had four brothers and they used to drag me out underneath the car and stuff so I can I can do all that stuff but I I think I'd much prefer to pay the twenty two ninety five to to go and have it done now so I can get my hands dirty so yeah I'm just getting getting to that age I guess you just don't have your time becomes very precious so working on the car is just not one of those things I wanna spend my time on anymore
[speaker001:] more fun things to do
[speaker002:] absolutely absolutely so yeah trying to you know I just need one I had two cars there for a while so I wouldn't have to worry about which car was gonna run
[speaker001:] well that's nice
[speaker002:] and yeah so but it became a hassle trying to keep up and maintain both of them and yeah so that
[speaker001:] yeah one's bad enough
[speaker002:] yes one was bad enough but I think I got rid of the wrong one I soon I need a lot of repairs done on on this one so yeah that was uh that was something else whenever our five minutes up I I didn't I didn't set the time or anything to uh yeah put
[speaker001:] yeah I was just wondering that yeah I didn't either yeah this must be a a hard category
[speaker002:] well yeah I guess um you know unless you're um you know big do-it-yourselfer um to you know fix up your own cars and and things like that so but I guess they they were talking about experiences you know I uh uh I did my parents live in Ohio so I I do know something about the you know the really cold weather and uh I've always lived down here in the South and I went I took my car up there to their house and um I guess I had a crack in the block and when I got up there the car

[speaker001:] okay uh as far as you know crime in the cities I'm sure it like in yours it's pretty pretty bad uh probably the biggest thing we've got going now is the robberies and theft and probably murder are the two top ones that we have how about you
[speaker002:] um-hum uh well I don't actually live in the city but uh I'd probably say that's roughly right I mean crimes against property seem to outnumber crimes against life but I I think with the current war on drugs and all this kind of stuff I'd say probably the police department would claim the number one crimes crimes are probably solicitation of prostitution um and sale of drugs
[speaker001:] um-hum probably probably right if you look at it from that stand point
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] what uh is there anything that uh that you particularly are concerned with in in your particular area as far as security and that sort of thing
[speaker002:] uh where I live no it's it's not so bad I mean I can basically leave my front door unlocked and not have to worry about it um but I do have friends who live in the city and I think that they get a lot of fallout from this war on drug thing um just because there are like crack houses you know on their street and stuff like this
[speaker001:] um-hum do you live in a real small town or or out in the country
[speaker002:] I live out in the country yeah
[speaker001:] how far out from the city I mean do you
[speaker002:] I am about fifteen miles out
[speaker001:] about fifteen miles I live in a little suburb uh which is I guess from Dallas is twelve miles or so
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] but it's pretty congested we are considered in the country but it doesn't really feel like you're in the country our major crimes in our immediate
[speaker002:] hm hm
[speaker001:] town uh is probably robberies house robberies
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] and very few instances of you know alcohol drug uh reported however I'm sure they're there
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] but uh right now our neighborhood is running about uh eighty percent of the homeowners have been robbed sometime during their their uh existence in that neighborhood
[speaker002:] wow that's huge
[speaker001:] and since that time everybody's gotten some sort of burglar system or you know uh burglar alarms
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] uh and including the out uh the outer perimeter type uh devices the sensors and things like that it's cut back
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] you know considerably but it it just shifts it from our neighborhood to another neighborhood to another neighborhood so it still uh remains city wide pretty pretty high
[speaker002:] are they are there any theories on why this is happening
[speaker001:] uh I would say the majority of it's happening during the day uh between probably ten in the morning and three in the afternoon
[speaker002:] um-hum but why why is it happening
[speaker001:] most well most families most families they are young and both people are working so they're happening during the hours they're gone from work uh so uh
[speaker002:] um-hum um-hum
[speaker001:] I would say that's probably their prime motivation they'll stalk they'll stalk your house and uh look at your pattern and then go from there
[speaker002:] so they're professionals
[speaker001:] um they classify most of them as professionals uh you get a few of them that are a little bit sloppier uh just taking uh you know just junk items that they they can just get you know ten to twenty bucks for real quick
[speaker002:] hm um-hum
[speaker001:] probably the biggest items that uh that you get in our neighborhood or would be the high classed automobiles Mercedes Volvos things that they can get you know big dollars for uh jewelry
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] are the major targets guns that sort of stuff
[speaker002:] hm
[speaker001:] very few you know penny penny ante stuff
[speaker002:] well what do you think can be done to reduce that sort of crime
[speaker001:] well uh the police force for one I think they could uh definitely add to the police force and the type equipment that they use uh it's oh right now I think we're about thirty thousand people and there's only eight officers that patrol for thirty for that amount of people which is not very many and
[speaker002:] um-hum um-hum right but that mean that's gonna tend to I mean it seems to me that sort of approach will tend to simply make the cost of committing the crime slightly higher in other words you've increased the probability of somebody being caught a little bit the real question is how do you convince people not to commit such crimes in the first place
[speaker001:] well the course in our particular state uh we have the prison overcrowding whatever so they're giving the early release uh
[speaker002:] right they're doing that in our state too
[speaker001:] yeah and and it's I think what they need to do is stop building more jails and start giving stiffer sentences uh but for the that would be certainly be a deterrent
[speaker002:] so you think that would be a deterrent um-hum
[speaker001:] and uh not necessarily you know uh give in to their uh human rights desires you know if they're overcrowded just keep cramming them in there till they just suffocate uh
[speaker002:] well what about an innocent person who happens to have been found guilty
[speaker001:] uh I think they'd have to go to extra measures to make sure a person's guilty you know in a lot of cases course I I know you can't be a hundred percent foolproof uh
[speaker002:] right so you'd you'd rather see it harder to convict somebody
[speaker001:] I'd rather see it a little bit harder and have a little bit more evidence uh to convict somebody and then those convicted especially of you know murder and and uh you know major crimes uh
[speaker002:] um-hum um-hum
[speaker001:] to reach the life sentences and you know death penalties and follow-through with that uh
[speaker002:] hm
[speaker001:] especially you you know in the case of murder uh I know in my case I had my wife and daughter were kidnapped during a house robbery back in eighty five and we caught the individuals got caught we uh
[speaker002:] right oh wow  oh my goodness um-hum
[speaker001:] we went through the court system and all that sort of thing and uh you know two counts of kidnapping uh you know the the forty five to the head you know just the the mental anguish and the whole nine yards
[speaker002:] um-hum right
[speaker001:] uh you know the the guy only got five years and you know he was out within two months because of the parole system so what what
[speaker002:] wow did you did you sue him under the civil system
[speaker001:] do what now
[speaker002:] did you sue him under the civil system
[speaker001:] no no I'm not real familiar with that
[speaker002:] well you probably sue him for mental anguish or something right and try to get money from him and
[speaker001:] oh well the insurance companies and all that tried to tried to go after him and they said well you know he they're he has no job he has nothing there's nothing that he has that that you could go after
[speaker002:] yeah makes you wish they had uh still had indentured servitude for this sort of thing
[speaker001:] yeah uh very seldom
[speaker002:] but they give give the guy a job in prison and make him pay his damn debt
[speaker001:] yeah they don't do that here course they pay them but they don't you don't you or the insurance companies never see any of that money
[speaker002:] yeah that's too bad
[speaker001:] and uh you know and they're right now they're reluctant to go after them because they're you know they're they're repeat offenders they uh they've bee n in jail before they've been released you know several times which is another
[speaker002:] um-hum um-hum um-hum
[speaker001:] uh deal I hate to see but uh you know basically the guy commits you know three major crimes and uh and car theft on top of it and destroys my car he we're out you know uh you know
[speaker002:] um-hum yeah I I think that's a yeah yeah that's awful
[speaker001:] fifteen thousand dollars and you know the guy gets out in two months and he goes out and commits it again fact he's back in jail now so what what uh
[speaker002:] gives you sympathy for the vigilantes just
[speaker001:] yeah what what deterrent does he really have
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] and I think in our in our particular neighborhood vigilantism is becoming a real real possibility uh we've had a couple instances where break-ins where the the people have actually you know
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] shot the people and uh return offenders have
[speaker002:] oh my God
[speaker001:] and uh return offenders have they've actually waited for them where they've robbed you know particular neighborhood they'll rob one house then other people will wait up you know and wait for somebody to do something else and try to take it in their own hands course it doesn't always work out in their favor
[speaker002:] hm right
[speaker001:] but uh nevertheless I think people are just getting fed up and saying you know you can't arrest all of us you can you know you can get some of us you can't get all of us
[speaker002:] right um-hum
[speaker001:] uh and we're beginning to see more and more of that
[speaker002:] I mean that sounds that's a deterrent too if you think the home owner might be armed right and awake hear you break in and you're gonna get shot
[speaker001:] yeah yeah that's I mean that's certainly a a possibility and and we have had a a few cases where the guy has broken in you know during the middle of the night and gotten himself shot to death
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] and uh it helps for a while but then just another different set of people come in and most of the people are transients from out outside of the state
[speaker002:] um-hum hm
[speaker001:] uh I would say probably eighty percent of them that are caught they're from places like up in Oklahoma and Louisiana Arkansas you know across the the border
[speaker002:] wow
[speaker001:] so you know people who don't readily read the newspapers in our town or whatever it's not many from the local communities but uh
[speaker002:] um-hum um-hum
[speaker001:] it's a problem and I I just I think that the court systems need to be more accurate in in stiffer in their penalties would be a definite deterrent and
[speaker002:] yeah yeah
[speaker001:] and uh giving the uh police uh agencies a little bit more jurisdiction over what they do when they when they catch these people
[speaker002:] um-hum I mean I I tend to agree with you I think uh what I would like to see is number one completely getting rid of these victimless crimes um there's no reason to enforce those and spend time and money doing it
[speaker001:] right
[speaker002:] and and worry about these things where people are getting hurt and I think one of the big things that you can do is to increase deterrence is um if someone is found guilty of a uh felony level offense they lose their citizenship and they lose their constitutional rights
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] you know and just a lot of things that we're trying to worry about you know protecting these people from we just don't protect them
[speaker001:] I know like in my wife's case they made her feel like the criminal they they went to all all
[speaker002:] I know and I think I think that's ridiculous

[speaker001:] So, how is the weather out there?
[speaker002:] Uh, it's really cold and it's supposedly for this time of the year it's unseasonably cold and they've gotten more snow than they've ever had.
[speaker001:] Oh, really?
[speaker002:] You have, breaking records for coldness and all that kind of stuff. How about you guys?
[speaker001:] Um. Uh, it's just, it's a, it's about same. The usual, I think.
[speaker002:] Oh.
[speaker001:] So, nice for skiing and all that kind of stuff [LAUGHTER]. It's good.
[speaker002:] Yeah, well the weather, let's see, well, the snow here is different from Utah's, because I have lived in Utah for like ten years.
[speaker001:] Oh, really? What part?
[speaker002:] And, uh, Provo. I was going to B Y U.
[speaker001:] Oh, really? Okay.
[speaker002:] Yeah. And, uh, the snow is like, really cold. I mean, it's, like, really humid so it seems wetter or something like that. It's,
[speaker001:] It's more humid in Utah than there?
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Or there?
[speaker002:] It's more humid in Iowa
[speaker001:] Okay.
[speaker002:] than Utah.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Okay.
[speaker002:] And it seems like when the winds blow, it's really, it goes right through you. It's really different from Utah's weather. I thought Utah was cold, but I think Iowa is a lot colder [LAUGHTER] [NOISE].
[speaker001:] Yeah, see, that's how it is in Texas, too because when it's cold, it's really cold. So,
[speaker002:] Yeah, I don't think there is any mountains to stop the wind [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] What's that?
[speaker002:] I don't think there is any mountains to stop the wind.
[speaker001:] Right. Yeah. So the humidity is I think what does it [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Yeah, I think that's true.
[speaker001:] Because I, I noticed when I got here, too, because like I'd, when it would snow in Texas
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] uh, I would just, I mean we'd be f-, really cold and we'd have to get really warm, and here you can almost not even wear a coat outside when it's snowing and you don't
[speaker002:] Yeah, yeah, that's true.
[speaker001:] you don't feel super cold. It was weird.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] But, so how long ago [baby] did you graduate? Or did you, or,
[speaker002:] Uh, I graduated in nineteen eighty-seven.
[speaker001:] Oh, really?
[speaker002:] Yeah, my husband got his doctorate at B Y U, so that's, and so he just graduated this past year.
[speaker001:] Oh. So you just barely moved away?
[speaker002:] Uh-huh [LAUGHTER]. Yeah, we really miss, *slash error?
[speaker001:] Do you like it out there?
[speaker002:] Well, we really miss Utah [LAUGHTER]. We miss
[speaker001:] You do?
[speaker002:] the mountains.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] Because it's, like, really flat here [LAUGHTER]. Well, not flat, but hilly. But no big mountains or anything.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh. So you just moved away a year ago?
[speaker002:] Uh, in August.
[speaker001:] Wow, really recent.
[speaker002:] [Breathing] Yeah. But, uh, see, see what else can I say about the weather. Uh, [lipsmack], well, today was warmer [LAUGHTER]. It was like forty-five [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Oh, warm [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] So, what's the temperature up today over there?
[speaker001:] Oh, man, it's got to be like, it's probably fifty, fifty-five, maybe.
[speaker002:] Oh, really?
[speaker001:] Maybe not that warm. Probably about, uh, yeah. It's not, it's not that cold, really.
[speaker002:] And whenever I remembered the weather reports in Utah, I never really remember them talking too much about wind chill.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] But they talk about wind chill here all the time.
[speaker001:] Yeah, that's a big deal in Texas, too.
[speaker002:] They said it could be, like, six degrees out and, like, negative forty-one wind chill.
[speaker001:] Um.
[speaker002:] So, that's what we're not used to [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Yeah, that's true. That makes a big difference. Huh.
[speaker002:] So, oh, I,
[speaker001:] So, did you used to ski when you were out here?
[speaker002:] What's that?
[speaker001:] Did you used to ski when you were in Utah?
[speaker002:] Oh, I've only, I've only skied in Utah once.
[speaker001:] Oh, really?
[speaker002:] I only skied once my whole life [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] But, do you do a lot of skiing there?
[speaker001:] Uh, not tons, but I like to when I get a chance.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] I've only been once so far, but had the opportunity a couple times since then. Just saving my money for Christmas things
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] and that.
[speaker002:] So is this your first year in Utah?
[speaker001:] Uh, no, this is actually my third year.
[speaker002:] And you're going to school there?
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Oh.
[speaker001:] Yep.
[speaker002:] At U of U, or,
[speaker001:] No, at B Y U.
[speaker002:] Oh, really?
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] Oh.
[speaker001:] So, but, I'll be here a long time [LAUGHTER], at this rate.
[speaker002:] What's your major?
[speaker001:] Uh, it was nursing, but I'm in the process of changing it right now.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh, oh.
[speaker001:] Because it's really, really competitive at B Y U.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] You have to have like a [LAUGHTER] three seven to get in so,
[speaker002:] That's true.
[speaker001:] It's really, I'm going to look into some other fields. I'd like, all the science classes and that, I'm just not really enjoying too much so
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] I think I better get into something that I can enjoy the process of going to school so,
[speaker002:] Yeah, that's, that's a good idea.
[speaker001:] Did you graduate in a certain field or,
[speaker002:] Uh, education. I got a double major.
[speaker001:] In,
[speaker002:] Uh, elementary and special ed.
[speaker001:] Really?
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] That what my sister did.
[speaker002:] Oh, really?
[speaker001:] Yeah, you might know her. Here name is Lori, Bird. Maybe not [LAUGHTER]. I think she graduated around then, too, though, eighty-seven probably, but, she got her doc-,
[speaker002:] Yeah, well, I can't, there are so many girls in all my classes, I [LAUGHTER] can't remember
[speaker001:] Yeah, yeah.
[speaker002:] how many people.
[speaker001:] Because they, since, uh, stopped that program. I mean, where you can
[speaker002:] Oh, have they?
[speaker001:] where you can get it double pretty easily.
[speaker002:] Oh.
[speaker001:] I mean, it's, it's really,

[speaker001:] Um, I don't, I am only twenty-eight and I haven't had much experience with nursing homes. I don't, I have never visited any of them and, uh, I don't think I've ever even been in one. Have you?
[speaker002:] Um, actually I have, um, I've, I've been in them but, um, just visiting and, uh, we used to g-, when we were like in, in our teen ages we'd go on Sundays and visit, you know, the older people. But, um, I have an elderly grandma that lives with us.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And she's lived with us for like five years. So I kind of know how it is to, how to decide if you want to put somebody in a rest home or, um, like we, I mean we've had those discussions, you know, about should we put her in or because she's pretty senile and [LAUGHTER],
[speaker001:] And it, it takes a lot of care like twenty-four hours a day someone,
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] has to be,
[speaker002:] It's rea-,
[speaker001:] Well, there's someone in my, my fiancee's family. His grandmother too and they're, that hi-, her son, his uncle, whatever, you know, anyway.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] He, he has, he's recently retired and so he's the one who she moved in with when she had a stroke and, and all the other children are working or whatever.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] They're all my parents age. And, uh, so he's got, you know, his retirement though is really twenty-four hours a day. They have a day care two days a week. They call it senior citizen day care. But she goes in the senior citizen center.
[speaker002:] Oh, really?
[speaker001:] So sh-, he gets a break two days a week but it's only for like two or three hours at a time.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] And, you know, just, you see a lot of things like you, you know, was a great golfer and wanted to play golf when he retired, and you know that a lot of the things he thought he would do when he retired he's not able to do now.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] But he refuses to consider any other, I don't,
[speaker002:] To put her in a rest home?
[speaker001:] Yeah, and is that how your parents feel or,
[speaker002:] Um, [throat clearing] well, see it's more my grandma that feels that way.
[speaker001:] [Very faint] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] She says that when her husband died that he said, oh, that my uncle had said that he would never ha-, put her in a rest home. So it's kind of, uh, I don't know. I mean, I don't, I don't think my parents would but she is getting pretty bad like she has to have like a little toilet right by her bed and,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] it's, and my mom has to take care of her pretty much so it gets, I don't know. It's, it's a hard decision, but I don't think I would do it to my parents personally [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] I know at this, I know I feel like I would never do that with my parents either, you know. But I, I really feel bad for the people I see th-, not very, I'm not really, really experienced but like I said I just have that one family, and I just really feel bad for the guy who his whole life is different now and, than he thought it would be. But,
[speaker002:] When he retired?
[speaker001:] Yeah, and he's got, you know, seven brothers and sisters and, and, uh, he's the one because he's the one that isn't going to work every day and that she moved in with when she needed to move in with someone. And,
[speaker002:] Yeah, it's like that good for us just because my uncle and my, and my mom switch off like we have her for three months and then he has her for three months.
[speaker001:] Oh, well, that's great.
[speaker002:] So that,
[speaker001:] That's a good idea. We ought to,
[speaker002:] that works out good.
[speaker001:] Yeah, and maybe when the other brothers and sisters retire or whatever, I don't know what they're going to do. It's really not my family. It's my fiancee's so I don't, I can't say much.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] But I always feel like I would never put my parents in either and I wonder, I'm going to be the only sibling that isn't going to have children so if my parents do need to live with someone, it will probably be with me because all my brothers and sisters will be having teenagers around and everything to care for.
[speaker002:] Really?
[speaker001:] You know, and I'm, I, that's fine with me. I-, my fiancee and I both figure that's what's, we're going to end up with both of the parents or whoever. If the-,
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] You know what I mean? We feel like,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] it's our responsibility, and I feel like I would never put them in a home. But I wonder how much, you know, if one of us is going to have to quit work someday or retire early or something.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] You think about it and it's really, I don't know. This country kind of takes the worst care of the elderly of any other country.
[speaker002:] You think? I, I
[speaker001:] And,
[speaker002:] I'm not really familiar with how other countries,
[speaker001:] It's really more of a, um, like a respect issue th-, that the older, older people in other countries that I've been to seem to really have a lot more respect for the elderly people and, and they really seem as wise and, and in this country nobody really,
[speaker002:] They're seen as senile [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Yeah, nobody really pays attention and they, oh, the old-timer made with the old way and nobody respects the traditions. And, you know, it's I, I'm not saying that I do either but [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] you know, it's just funny and, and we really don't have any that don't have the Social Security and everything really isn't that much
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] for elderly people to live on. You know, even if they're in good health it's incredible.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] They don't have any, they don't get special treatment and maybe they should, you know
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] because we're all going to get old someday.
[speaker002:] I know.
[speaker001:] And so it's a, it's kind of a depressing [LAUGHTER] topic though. How old are you?
[speaker002:] Um, I'm twenty.
[speaker001:] So it is, yeah, and it must be rough for you too to see your grandmother.
[speaker002:] Yeah, it's,
[speaker001:] .
[speaker002:] it really is but, and she, she drives us craz-,

[speaker001:] Okay, it's pressed. Are you still there?
[speaker002:] I'm ready [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Okay [LAUGHTER]. So what's, uh, things that you look for when you go out to dinner?
[speaker002:] Oh, I just like a nice, quiet, nice atmosphere
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] and of course good food [LAUGHTER]. That's always, that's always a concern, but just a nice quiet easy place
[speaker001:] Huh.
[speaker002:] maybe candlelight something
[speaker001:] Um, that sounds pretty.
[speaker002:] just to relax, you know
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] because I don't really go out to dinner that much, so.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh. Well, we don't go out to dinner that much either. We try to get out maybe like once every month and a half or
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] something like that, but I definitely want to go to a place that's nice and clean, you know.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] Um, I've been to some that's been terrible. You know, you see cockroaches crawling around and
[speaker002:] Oh [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] everything, you know. But I try to get one that's nice and clean and then I like to, you know, good food and good service.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] So.
[speaker002:] Yeah, where you don't feel rushed, you know
[speaker001:] Yeah, right.
[speaker002:] and you can just relax, and
[speaker001:] Right, right.
[speaker002:] stay as long as you want.
[speaker001:] So is there some nice places to go to eat in Plano?
[speaker002:] Well, nearby. We're almost in Dallas. We're just north of Dallas.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] So we have quite a bit between us and there. It's about ten miles
[speaker001:] Uh-huh, uh-huh.
[speaker002:] and there is all kinds of restaurants and, I had one that was a favorite for a long time, and then it changed hands and doubled the prices and then it finally went out of business.
[speaker001:] Um.
[speaker002:] So, but it was really nice. It had a fireplace.
[speaker001:] Um, that sounds beautiful.
[speaker002:] Yeah, it was really nice. They had entertainment sometimes and
[speaker001:] Uh-huh, uh-huh.
[speaker002:] you could just really relax there and enjoy it.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh, uh-huh. Well.
[speaker002:] But it's gone [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] This is only a little small city. Uh, we have, uh, [cough] excuse me, [cough] I didn't think my coughing would come back. Anyhow, we have only like one, uh, restaurant that's kind of nice. You know, they have prime rib on, uh, weekends
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and then they have about six miles from here is called, a little city called Wesley, and they have a Wesley Hotel there that they serve food, and the atmosphere there is really, really nice.
[speaker002:] Oh, that's nice.
[speaker001:] So, and then if we really want to, you know, something different we go to Modesto
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] which is like twenty minutes away.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] But, uh, we don't have any fast foods here in this small city [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] That is probably very fortunate for you. Do you have kids?
[speaker001:] Do I have kids?
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Well, I have a son, but he's grown up.
[speaker002:] Oh, because I have a twelve year old that would eat a happy meal every night, you know, and
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] now's she's graduated to two cheeseburgers, [LAUGHTER] so something's happened here, but, but, um, you know, McDonald's is definitely at the top of her list, and I hate these places.
[speaker001:] Yeah. All the kids seem to love McDonald's don't they, you know.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh, they do, and I don't think there's an ounce of [LAUGHTER] nutritional value in anything they have.
[speaker001:] No, no, I'm sure there isn't.
[speaker002:] Well, we have all kinds of fast foods everywhere around
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] and it's really, it's tempting when you come home from work and you're tired and, you know, you just are tempted to give in to that, and it costs a lot of money to do it too.
[speaker001:] I know.
[speaker002:] You know, it adds up and it's not healthy, and I really got into that habit for a while, but I got out of it again because
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] I just felt like
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] it was just too unhealthy.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] So.
[speaker001:] Well, let's see, what else can we talk about? [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] Well, how's California today? [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Oh, it's foggy and cold here.
[speaker002:] Is it? That's what I've heard, yeah.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh, uh-huh. Yeah and it's.
[speaker002:] Have you always lived there?
[speaker001:] I came from Iowa when I was sixteen
[speaker002:] Oh.
[speaker001:] so I've lived out in California for a long, long time.
[speaker002:] And you like it?
[speaker001:] Yeah, I like it real well.
[speaker002:] Yeah, we've been.
[speaker001:] We used to live in Oakland, so we used to have a lot more restaurants to go to there
[speaker002:] Oh, yeah.
[speaker001:] you know, but, uh, then I quit work and everything and I bought a house. I had a condo in Oakland, so, right in Chinatown, so we went to lots of restaurants
[speaker002:] Oh, that would be fun.
[speaker001:] Chinese restaurants, and they were really good, I really miss them. You know.
[speaker002:] Yeah. Do you miss living there?
[speaker001:] Uh, no, I really don't miss
[speaker002:] No.
[speaker001:] living there. I just like to go in there and have a nice Chinese
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] dinner once in a while, you know.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] But, uh, as far as missing living there, no.
[speaker002:] Um.
[speaker001:] It's close enough if I wanted to go there, to San Francisco for dinner or something, why, you know, an hour and fifteen minutes we could be there and
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] you know, have dinner and then come on back. But, uh, have you ever been to California?
[speaker002:] Oh, yeah, I go all the time.
[speaker001:] Oh really?
[speaker002:] Yeah, well I have a twenty-one year old daughter in college there
[speaker001:] Um.
[speaker002:] and she, um, is a world champion twirler
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] and her coach is in California. So she went there for six years.
[speaker001:] Um.
[speaker002:] So I went out a lot with her.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh, uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And, uh, yeah, I know California pretty well.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And I love it, and
[speaker001:] .
[speaker002:] we tug back and forth who's going to move, but I think he's going to move because I'm the person with more to lose here.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] I have my twelve year old in school
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] and she's happy. She always lived here in the south, and I have my house, so
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] I have too much to lose,

[speaker001:] okay he did where'd he decide to go
[speaker002:] um to Williams College in Massachusetts
[speaker001:] uh-huh sure I'm familiar with it
[speaker002:] and that he was he was uh trying to decide between University of Pennsylvania and Williams and it was a very difficult choice and uh
[speaker001:] and he well he must know is he interested in law or medicine he must have a definite profession in mind
[speaker002:] no but that's one of the reasons why he chose Williams that it has solid liberal arts
[speaker001:] oh okay medium size aren't they
[speaker002:] about two thousand
[speaker001:] is he excited
[speaker002:] very excited yes uh I have another son who's at their chief rival Amherst College
[speaker001:] wow I can I uh-huh while they're east coast I mean I don't know anything about their football but there you go
[speaker002:] well they're they're they're really very strong academic rather than you know big sports
[speaker001:] yeah that's where where you at
[speaker002:] we're outside of uh Washington in Maryland how about you
[speaker001:] oh okay I'm in uh suburban Dallas
[speaker002:] uh-huh do you have children in
[speaker001:] no I don't I have a husband we don't have any kids yet about all I can say is I guess about picking schools um I guess uh if you don't know what you're going to do liberal arts program is a good idea
[speaker002:] okay um well I I one of the the advises we've given our children is that you can always learn a job
[speaker001:] this is true
[speaker002:] uh but what you can't learn uh on a job is a good solid well rounded well rounded education
[speaker001:] right the humanities the history yeah
[speaker002:] that's right you know the Renaissance man and uh and if you get that you can and if you do well you can you can learn a job
[speaker001:] right right no no no yeah but they you know if they learn the job and they can go into graduate school usually a company it will if it's worth it's weight will subsidize and
[speaker002:] that's exactly right that's right so the advice we gave to them was number one visit the colleges that you're thinking about describe first of all
[speaker001:] uh-huh this this is true yeah
[speaker002:] the size school that you might be interested in
[speaker001:] and if you want to go away right
[speaker002:] do you want to go away how far from home do you want to be
[speaker001:] right
[speaker002:] what do you want in a college now my son is a national level competitive swimmer
[speaker001:] good
[speaker002:] so he wanted to swim in school but he did not want to be in a swim factory
[speaker001:] okay so he wouldn't have gone to something like where we're at they'd in Austin Texas University of Texas
[speaker002:] that's right that's the University of Texas at Austin or Stanford or something like that so he didn't even consider those
[speaker001:] right Texas Aquatics yeah okay well that's I think the other thing is too um I know I went to a uh city high school in Chicago and a lot of the kids weren't as fortunate as say my brother and I were and economics was the choice um
[speaker002:] uh-huh uh-huh
[speaker001:] sounds like your son has academically the standing to get into that type of school
[speaker002:] he is very very strong academically yeah so we've just but you know he had to look to see what kind of environment he liked and yet he he did wind up having to make a choice he did apply to a large you know large group
[speaker001:] uh-huh yeah University of Penn I'm originally from Pennsylvania Pennsylvania University of Pennsylvania
[speaker002:] it's got about nine thousand undergraduate
[speaker001:] yeah that's strong I mean that's you know and it's it's well it's a little bit I don't want to use the word wilder that's not the word I want um more diverse
[speaker002:] yeah yeah yeah uh yes and it but it does have the under you know that's total undergraduate with five hundred graduate school so that the uh the college of arts and sciences is you know I guess about four thousand
[speaker001:] at Williams or Pennsylvania at Williams at Pennsylvania well how large is Williams
[speaker002:] at Pennsylvania Williams is an undergraduate school only um and it's a total of two thousand
[speaker001:] right well that's not bad
[speaker002:] yeah so he knew the feeling because my other son is at Amherst which is fifteen hundred and he had visited his brother at Amherst and knew that he liked the environment but he did go on college visits and he liked
[speaker001:] which is a lot uh-huh that's the thing to do I mean I not having any children my husband was an Ohio State person and uh that has something like either the first or second largest
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] student population like fifty thousand combined community
[speaker002:] yes yes it's large and they both boys had decided no that they did not want that
[speaker001:] yeah that is too much and I mean I um I can only say it's strange your son picked those kinds of college because I spent a year at Bennington in Vermont um and that was this was twenty years ago showing my age
[speaker002:] oh it's so you uh-huh and did you ever eat at the Blue Bin Diner
[speaker001:] yes oh my God where are you from well let's not talk about that
[speaker002:] okay no but we've been there when I'm up at Williams we've gone up there
[speaker001:] it's um in that area I mean I just can't say enough about it
[speaker002:] oh it's it whatever we went and he was you know impressed by the clean air and he he met the students at both schools and he liked them
[speaker001:] well you know um my husband's an engineer and a strong liberal a strong liberal arts background with uh a graduate degree in a technical field will get him much further than say like a a strong um business administration degree than with another MBA on top of it
[speaker002:] uh-huh that's okay that's it the thing is if if a person really knows very early on that they want to go in a technical field than you're not then it's probably good to go to you know to apply to a school with a strong technical program
[speaker001:] uh-huh and they usually yeah but they usually don't
[speaker002:] but uh for if you're going into if you know engineering is the thing if then you've got to at least take engineering
[speaker001:] right but they no but who does I mean I think I think all I think the majority of people just don't know no he looked at criteria such as location size of school yeah
[speaker002:] that's right uh-huh no he didn't apply to any school further the furthest away was Bowdoin in Maine which is about twelve hours
[speaker001:] that's still pretty far though I mean a lot of kids just don't even want to go
[speaker002:] yeah that was the furthest and then Kenyon in Ohio which was about six and a half hours and Williams is about seven
[speaker001:] oh that's not too bad
[speaker002:] yeah so well I mean he so it wasn't he you know then the University of Pennsylvania is like two hours from here by train and then Bucknell in mid state Pennsylvania
[speaker001:] yeah he will enjoy Williams I think and is a good academic
[speaker002:] yeah and he knew and if it came down I mean as he came he's been talking to them and and he came down and one of the things that he said is he went to Pennsylvania this weekend and he had an absolutely marvelous time he had a great time
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] but then he said you know it was such a good time that I almost got the feeling that their emphasis is on having fun
[speaker001:] that could very well be I mean
[speaker002:] and he said it almost backfired I think it backfired
[speaker001:] so he's developing his his uh internal instincts right now that's good because I mean I'm sure what he said was true that uh you well actually that's one of the reasons I went to uh Kenyon he went he made a good choice I went I
[speaker002:] so
[speaker001:] I well swear w e're not supposed to but I spent a year in Vermont my freshman year it was just too far away it was too different uh the level of income of lot of the students and their attitudes was just um beyond my
[speaker002:] um-hum yeah well
[speaker001:] um in terms of drugs et cetera which I thought was shocking
[speaker002:] of course that period too was probably difficult to for you but I did uh my advice to him and my husband's was that
[speaker001:] right yeah you're right but then I went yeah
[speaker002:] he had to really decide what he wanted out of college he had to look at himself uh in a larger school he had to realize that if he was going to screw around it he could probably slip and it wouldn't be caught up until it was too late where in a smaller school where especially in a Kenyon or a Williams where you see the professors around town all the time you skip class in the morning and they see you
[speaker001:] uh-huh and you're going to get a little bit more input than discipline yeah
[speaker002:] that's yeah yeah and a swim coach is going to be right on top of you uh so that and he will know the professors in a small
[speaker001:] well I don't know how to put this either in this way and then it doesn't sound like your sons would need this but I just think the other thing is with the way a lot of the youth is today I think the refinement that they get I don't mean specifically etiquette or culture but just what you're saying just a solid background
[speaker002:] uh-huh yeah yeah
[speaker001:] because I just don't think at that age I just don't think that young people know what they want to do
[speaker002:] that's right that's right and um and it's just the personal contact where if you need help
[speaker001:] you know and um that's right
[speaker002:] he has I told him to look to yourself are you the kind of person that will go into a large college and if the professor says I've got office hours but you really don't feel that you know him because you're in a class of a hundred that you're really going to look him up but if it's a class of fifteen
[speaker001:] right right lecture yeah this is very very
[speaker002:] and you need help you know that it's much easier to do it and especially in the large schools they have lectures
[speaker001:] oh
[speaker002:] and even though they may break it up into smaller groups uh Penn is known for having
[speaker001:] they have video lectures yeah video lectures
[speaker002:] graduate assistants teaching they have graduate assistants to teach the smaller groups
[speaker001:] this is true and I mean that is very ironic too that your son just made the did he just make the decision today
[speaker002:] just a he made the decision uh I'd say about uh an hour and a half ago
[speaker001:] how funny
[speaker002:] yeah I mean that's so funny I mean and and in fact he had just an hour before that two uh recent graduates from Kenyon spent close to two hours talking with him
[speaker001:] well he'll that's funny
[speaker002:] and uh I mean and he they were really nice and but he said is that they didn't tell him anything that he didn't know but they helped confirm his decision that a smaller school was better
[speaker001:] it was easy for him to rule out he knew what he didn't want that's exactly yeah now is your other I mean we're talking about what you think but obviously you're experiencing it uh did your other son um
[speaker002:] yeah yeah right now yeah my other son is just as happy as a bed bug he the moment he knew he he decided early on that Amherst was the school he's a classical guitarist
[speaker001:] a clam oh wonderful
[speaker002:] and he decided he also got into the Yale graduate school of music as an undergraduate for classical guitar but he decided he was going to go to the um
[speaker001:] uh-huh the smaller and the
[speaker002:] the smaller now and then graduate school later
[speaker001:] and they'll do fine in their studies and I'm sure they'll go on to graduate school and
[speaker002:] well he's really my older boy's real happy and he's minoring in English and he had thought about economics and he took a couple of courses in economics and decided that wasn't
[speaker001:] and now he's a senior he's a senior or is this early admissions
[speaker002:] he'll be he's finishing his sophomore year so he's double majoring
[speaker001:] so he's so he's yeah well sounds like you have two talented sons
[speaker002:] well you know see the advice we give is to not limit yourself especially this you know go to a school where you're not forced to make too many irrevocable decisions your first year or two
[speaker001:] I think and a lot of people talk about and it's not the economics I'm solely zeroed in on but I think a lot of people think a lot of people think about the tuition level and what exactly are you getting in return
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] and I think that a lot of people shy away from the smaller colleges colleges because of that and I think it's rather sad
[speaker002:] well one of the things we said is that they should pick the college this was our advice too irrespective of the cost that somehow we would manage
[speaker001:] you are wonderful parents
[speaker002:] well we place a real high priority on education in our family
[speaker001:] no and I agree I mean my husband and I in fact I'm taking my LSATs um I'm thirty something and taking my LSATs on June tenth
[speaker002:] oh good that's wonderful oh that's great
[speaker001:] um the point being and your sons will learn this from you I'm sure that uh no matter what age you are you can learn
[speaker002:] that's right that's exactly
[speaker001:] and it sounds like they're going to you know they're just

[speaker001:] hello
[speaker002:] yes I forgot we had to hit one or our time will be up
[speaker001:] well I hit one and nothing happened what's going on
[speaker002:] well just go ahead and talk that's all
[speaker001:] are you sure don't they usually tell you to say something
[speaker002:] yeah I don't think so huh-uh
[speaker001:] oh okay we're supposed to talk about lawn and garden
[speaker002:] yes I'm I'm supposed to find out what you do for your lawn and garden
[speaker001:] what do I do well I uh I cut it occasionally is uh is that good okay
[speaker002:] uh-huh good uh-huh you're ahead of me that's better
[speaker001:] and I edge it occasionally
[speaker002:] oh that's really good
[speaker001:] yeah see am I good or what
[speaker002:] yes
[speaker001:] and uh I uh much much beyond that I don't do
[speaker002:] I don't do any of that really well I call my lawn man Eric whatever his name is I can't remember who's gonna come and build me a fence too
[speaker001:] uh-huh oh he is gonna through fence
[speaker002:] well he's gonna give me an estimate and for ten dollars a week I don't see any reason for me to be doing it
[speaker001:] uh-huh what for a fence
[speaker002:] no for my yard
[speaker001:] oh well I thought isn't he the same one
[speaker002:] yeah he is
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] yeah but ten dollars or what is what does he charge not even that what does he charge me it's like next to nothing it's ten because I it's forty a month but if there's five weeks I still pay forty
[speaker001:] what am I I don't know yeah yeah but you know you ought to get him to go pull the weeds
[speaker002:] well he won't pull weeds he says he'll spray them but he won't pull them
[speaker001:] oh
[speaker002:] uh he won't cut them is what he won't do because he said with the rocks that it's too dangerous for him to take the
[speaker001:] um-hum yeah
[speaker002:] the trimmer over the rocks and he's right that's true but he just says to keep spraying them so
[speaker001:] uh-huh yeah well so
[speaker002:] anyway Gene sprayed them once or twice for me so
[speaker001:] yeah so you haven't you haven't pulled any weeds lately
[speaker002:] that was free no no there are two out front I thought I'd grab one of these days but I haven't bothered as I walk on by
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] I start to pull the weeds in the rocks out front and
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] all of a sudden I came cross this big clump of weeds and there was dog dirt in it
[speaker001:] oh oh goody
[speaker002:] and I threw the gloves in the trash bag that was out there and I left the whole thing and that was about a month ago
[speaker001:] I thought you were going to say there I thought you gonna say there was a snake in the weeds
[speaker002:] I would rather a snake
[speaker001:] oh God oh
[speaker002:] no I just left the whole thing the bag is still out there because I haven't touched it I haven't gone back over there it really made me mad
[speaker001:] yeah oh God
[speaker002:] so anyway but
[speaker001:] but uh how are your your flowers your little things you planted did they die or what
[speaker002:] oh yeah now they died
[speaker001:] oh they're all so they oh are they going to come back in the spring
[speaker002:] I don't know
[speaker001:] oh
[speaker002:] I don't know and then I got some nice uh mums at Thanksgiving that I put in the pots out there and I thought they were supposed to live through all the cold weather
[speaker001:] uh-huh yeah
[speaker002:] they looked real pretty until about a week before Christmas then they started to die too
[speaker001:] oh
[speaker002:] so I don't think any of it comes back but I don't know maybe sometimes things do that aren't even supposed to
[speaker001:] yeah I don't know uh
[speaker002:] so
[speaker001:] those flowers remember those little ones you gave me
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] yeah well they're I know they were still blooming up until about a a few weeks ago
[speaker002:] really
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] well that's good they're the best kind they they're like indestructible
[speaker001:] yeah they they're really pretty
[speaker002:] they really grow nice and sometimes they're not supposed to come back but lots of times they do
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] so
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] we'll see they're letting us have a lot of time on this aren't they but that's because we didn't hit one for a long time
[speaker001:] yeah I mean isn't it supposed to be five minutes we didn't disconnect did we
[speaker002:] I hope not neither one of us is getting paid for this
[speaker001:] oh I hate to think I hate to think I'd be talking to you without getting paid
[speaker002:] yeah really I know it I can't believe this I got somebody from Utah
[speaker001:] what uh-huh
[speaker002:] and somebody where was the person last night was from far away
[speaker001:] you're kidding really
[speaker002:] and we get each other down the street this is so funny
[speaker001:] well uh the uh I got I talked to someone woman from Oklahoma City and some woman from Dallas and that was it
[speaker002:] yeah I've had Dallas Arlington I've had uh one Plano
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] and then a lady from Brigham Utah whose son lives in Plano on Ranier someplace
[speaker001:] wow really
[speaker002:] and then um another state I can't remember but she told me about the Utah Jazz we talked about basketball
[speaker001:] oh really
[speaker002:] and I don't remember what what the place was last night like I'm thinking Colorado but I'm not sure another place anyway
[speaker001:] yeah uh-huh
[speaker002:] so the but mostly they're from the area this
[speaker001:] I don't know this yeah well there isn't really much to talk about as far as lawn and garden goes not for me either what do I
[speaker002:] not for me you know not not for me because all I have is rocks and weeds
[speaker001:] yeah but I don't you know I what do I do cut it one you know and and edge it and that's about it what do I do with it
[speaker002:] I know I know we're not typical Texans
[speaker001:] no
[speaker002:] but
[speaker001:] what's going on are they gonna tell us to stop stop or what
[speaker002:] well I don't know I hope so come on come on
[speaker001:] isn't it five minutes
[speaker002:] I don't know
[speaker001:] I I mean I'm all talked out about gardens
[speaker002:] I know well we can talk about something else it's just a suggested topic
[speaker001:] oh oh it's just suggested
[speaker002:] so how's the baby do you think how's the let's talk about the baby
[speaker001:] what we could talk let's talk about the baby

[speaker001:] All righty. Uh, I'll just hand it off to you and hobbies in our spare time is what we've been selected to discuss today.
[speaker002:] Well, uh, the hobbies that I pursue in my spare time, are crafts and, uh, I've been involved in making, uh, hat stands and, uh, rag dolls and, uh, different type hats with, uh, flowers and roses, you know, and, uh, that kind of thing, straw hats and,
[speaker001:] Oh [Sounds like typing noises in background].
[speaker002:] all that kind of stuff. And I enjoy it, it's relaxing. And you kind of get absorbed in it so the time goes by, you know, before you realize anything is going on. And I play the organ sometimes, uh, just for my own satisfaction [LAUGHTER]. Not for anybody else's ears because I'm not that good at it, but I like to bang on the keyboards once in a while.
[speaker001:] Oh really?
[speaker002:] How about yourself?
[speaker001:] Well, oh, hobbies, gee whiz, I guess I got too many hobbies so I never have time to deal with them.
[speaker002:] Really?
[speaker001:] I like photography a lot,
[speaker002:] Oh, yeah, that's neat.
[speaker001:] uh, I used to do that a lot and then I like, um, we have a new child that will be a year old here next week, so I'll take a lot of pictures of her,
[speaker002:] Oh, that's great, uh-huh.
[speaker001:] you know, and spoil them, first one, you know how that is. And, um, [throat clearing] uh, I play the guitar and a banjo. I mainly play the guitar a lot, I play about every night. And, um, I really love that, if I had a druther, if I could have, if I could make it on the road, I'd like to play on like a bluegrass band or something, because that's, I've,
[speaker002:] Oh, that sounds nice. I like bluegrass, too.
[speaker001:] yeah, I've done it before and when I was in hi-, in high school and college,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and thoroughly enjoyed it, and it's really a, a blast. My wife hates it, but that's the way life is, I guess.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] That's the hard part, right?
[speaker001:] Exactly.
[speaker002:] If you can do things together, that really helps a lot.
[speaker001:] yeah, we, uh, she's, uh, into aerobics, and, uh,
[speaker002:] Oh, that's good, too.
[speaker001:] and we did aerobics together for about a month and a half and that went over real well,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] but, uh, that's about it there.
[speaker002:] Oh, it's good and it's healthy, too.
[speaker001:] Oh, yeah, yeah.
[speaker002:] We do that too, we have a, uh, a treadmill and, uh, a bicycle and that kind of stuff, we try to get twenty minutes like at least three for four times a week, you know.
[speaker001:] Oh, that's great.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] That's great.
[speaker002:] And we like movies, that ki-, yeah.
[speaker001:] Yeah, that's, uh, spare time, with a child it's, kind of stra-, she's, we have, uh, we're looking for a baby-sitter so we've been out twice in o-, in this year so far.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] By ourselves without the child so it's kind of, uh, become an issue you could say.
[speaker002:] Sure.
[speaker001:] Um, hobbies, I like, messing around in your house building things, and, you know,
[speaker002:] Oh yeah, that's great, too.
[speaker001:] putting cabinets up, and,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] those kind of things, um,
[speaker002:] Yeah, we did some remodeling when we bought a house, we built, put a kitchen in and, um, that kind of stuff, and painting and some wallpapering, that's fun.
[speaker001:] It's really kind of fun.
[speaker002:] It is. It really is.
[speaker001:] Especially if your spouse will get in there with you and get dirty, yeah.
[speaker002:] Yeah, exactly. I like things that, you know, two people can do, but I like the quiet of doing things away, you know, kind of gives you some space for yourself, and that's what I find in making the dolls and things, that it gives me something that I can create, and I like to crochet and knit. I made some afghans and that kind of stuff. I like doing things with my hands.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh. Sounds like it.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Do you like to cook?
[speaker002:] Yes, I love to cook.
[speaker001:] Yeah, I love to cook, too, I'm, uh,
[speaker002:] Italian food [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Oh, really?
[speaker002:] Yeah, pizzas and spaghettis and lasagnas and that kind of stuff.
[speaker001:] Well, we're all skinny farts so, I, it,
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] so when it comes to, I like to cook and eat and,
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] to have, mai-, mainly, I guess, I get to amount of people eat, *listen
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and then say, man this is really good,
[speaker002:] Yeah, it is.
[speaker001:] um, um, but it just, work in the garden, work around the yard, of course,
[speaker002:] Do you do barbecues?
[speaker001:] Yes, we sure do, smoke them an-,
[speaker002:] Well, uh, uh, smoking and all that stuff?
[speaker001:] Oh, yeah, all that hoedown stuff.
[speaker002:] Yeah, yep,
[speaker001:] All that stuff that's bad for you.
[speaker002:] I, I lived in Abilene for a little while,
[speaker001:] Oh, sure, yeah.
[speaker002:] and, uh, worked in the Abilene plant, and we used to go to Joe Allen's Barbecue, and, uh, oh, that was great.
[speaker001:] Oh, yeah.
[speaker002:] Really great,
[speaker001:] That's, uh,
[speaker002:] they have some nice stuff down there.
[speaker001:] only way to do it.
[speaker002:] I miss it [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Well, yeah, it's, uh, it's, uh, it's, uh, there's, uh, there's pluses to everything,
[speaker002:] Oh, yeah.
[speaker001:] but, you know, seems like there's just so many things to do down here, I like the sports, I play a lot of racquetball.
[speaker002:] We did, I did horseback riding, too, in fact, when my children were growing up, we always had horses and, uh, that was kind of for them, but they weren't as interested in it as we were, you know, so, uh, that was a real, I'd say probably for maybe fifteen years, we dabbled in that, you know, we always had horses around, and I really enjoyed that,
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Oh, that's great, sounds like you,
[speaker002:] and I was disappointed when I went to Texas. I didn't see that many of them.
[speaker001:] Horses?
[speaker002:] Yes [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Yeah, you really don't. Yeah, th-, the, you have to look real hard to see a lot of things besides concrete, uh,
[speaker002:] I know, I know, it's true.
[speaker001:] there's buildings and concrete and a lot of people and that's about it down here, and so,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Yeah. But, uh, that's great. Well, sounds like you have a lot of nice hobbies there.
[speaker002:] Yeah, you too, you too.
[speaker001:] Well, great, well look, uh, I know it's probably late for you,
[speaker002:] Okay.
[speaker001:] I enjoyed speaking with you
[speaker002:] Me too.
[speaker001:] have a good weekend.
[speaker002:] Okay.
[speaker001:] Bye-bye.
[speaker002:] Bye, now.

[speaker002:] okay what do you think about the idea of uh
[speaker001:] okay
[speaker002:] kids having to do public service work for a year do you think it's a
[speaker001:] well I I think it's a pretty good deal I think they should either do that or or or afford some time to the military or or helping elderly people I
[speaker002:] yes yes definitely
[speaker001:] I I'd you know I think that we have a bunch of elderly folks in the country that could use some help and I think that before we expend all our young talent overseas and and helping other countries we ought to perhaps give a little bit of our help to our own folks at home and
[speaker002:] that's true
[speaker001:] I'm not sure that that's not a bad idear and or the military for a year or two wouldn't be bad for I think it teaches kids how to grow how about yourself
[speaker002:] yeah uh I agree with you um um what I'm thinking about is back oh when I was a kid and much earlier than that kids were kind of you know the parents kind of pushed them to join like the Boy Scouts or the Girl Scouts and they did do do do a lot of public service activities but these days they're not um parents parents aren't encouraging their kids to do things like that because when I was in the Girl Scouts we did a lot of public service things because that's just part of of of the scouting and you know
[speaker001:] yeah I've I that's really great I I really think that both the Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts is a excellent two excellent organizations
[speaker002:] they are but parents
[speaker001:] but you know they kids seem like when they get ten or twelve years old they fall out of that and and they don't follow it at all you know there're very few scouts go on and become Eagle Scouts and and I don't know what the high rank is for the gals but
[speaker002:] yeah they do oh no I I a senior
[speaker001:] ah senior okay so there's not uh
[speaker002:] oh they're just not um once they get into junior high they just not done anymore
[speaker001:] yeah they they lose interest and then when they young young adults there's even less interest they're they're more for
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] I guess uh not not yeah I mean me yeah you're absolutely right I think it's a really a good thing I I like to see
[speaker002:] me grab grab grab walk yeah
[speaker001:] of course there's you know third world countries that can use all kind of help
[speaker002:] yeah but there's a lot that can be done right here in this country too
[speaker001:] but I think we ought to start right here at home I'm you know
[speaker002:] yeah um I'm not I'm not so sure that overseas help helping overseas would be such a hot idea for some for uh a lot of young kids people
[speaker001:] no it it
[speaker002:] but uh since there is much that needs to be done here
[speaker001:] I think that yeah I think that we need to really address what we've done here and and then perhaps even a six month tour overseas that gives a much broader outlook
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] well it's been really good we talked about this for a few minutes and uh hopefully we'll have another good topic maybe another call someday but I I don't really have too much more to say on this topic I guess
[speaker002:] no uh I agree with you
[speaker001:] we I guess we both agree that it's a good thing that they should do sometime well you take care and and enjoy the day thank you ma'am bye-bye
[speaker002:] yeah okay you too you too bye-bye

[speaker002:] okay and uh I I missed a part of it we're to talk about what lawns and gardens
[speaker001:] lawn and garden work and what you enjoy and what kind of work you do I'm I'm a putterer I chose that topic because I really like gardening as far as flowers and shrubs and just keeping a pretty yard
[speaker002:] uh-huh uh-huh I well it's it's it's very strange strange that I got this call because my wife just called me I was just in the shower after finishing mowing the lawn
[speaker001:] oh
[speaker002:] and you know mowing the lawn and removing some old petunias out of the garden this type of thing is working right in to start planting fall fall bulbs
[speaker001:] um-hum we've had a late fall it seems like the weather in fact today it's really warm and so many of the summer flowers are still pretty enough that you hate to pull them up but you know you need to pretty soon
[speaker002:] uh right that's the way this was the the petunias were really great our mums are are beautiful
[speaker001:] oh
[speaker002:] uh I don't know if we I don't think we've had a frost up here I've been I was down New Orleans for a week so I don't know what happened last week
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] uh but uh it seems like it's oh I don't know if it's late I'm sort of waiting for Indian Summer so I can get a lot of stuff down out here
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] um I I enjoy it we came here we just moved into this well we moved in November and put all all the landscaping in this this year we came from nine years in a condo uh and working in that condo you didn't have to do anything you know unless you really wanted to so
[speaker001:] um-hum so now you have the chance to really create and and spread out
[speaker002:] right you know I've had this is my third third house I think I've owned um but uh it's interesting the only the only problem is that I do quite a bit of traveling and it sort of gets away from me if you're not with it so but uh I I enjoy
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] most of it and about this time of year there is it starts getting a little old and I start looking forward to you know having other things to do with my
[speaker001:] the grass not growing so fast
[speaker002:] ah well it is it is for me because I've been doing a lot of fertilizing we had a terrible summer we had a drought
[speaker001:] oh
[speaker002:] and uh took a lot of watering and a lot of fertilizing and now it's really growing and I'm trying to establish a good root root growth you know for the winter
[speaker001:] hm ours seems to have slowed down here we're not having to mow every week religiously
[speaker002:] really
[speaker001:] but we're still fighting bugs and ready to change some of the the summer flowers out I still have caladiums that are pretty which is a surprise this late in the year
[speaker002:] uh oh really um yeah
[speaker001:] uh-huh but like today it's eighty five degrees it's really strange
[speaker002:] oh yeah yeah I hear that from my brother-in-law lives in Plano
[speaker001:] but that'll change real quick then we'll wished we'd planted bulbs and pansies already
[speaker002:] yeah well he always  he waits until it gets about seventeen below up here and then he calls us yeah it's seventy degrees here in the sunshine so
[speaker001:] oh my gosh well Texas has gotten to where it's a real problem as far as plants because our summers are so terribly hot
[speaker002:] oh I yeah
[speaker001:] and we have ice storms every year and there just aren't that many plants and shrubs that can take both of those extremes some of the things that used to be hardy are getting to where they don't make it through the two swings
[speaker002:] uh-huh yeah that is I was you know I was like conditioned to it they're they're have to be hardened to it already yeah that's uh that's strange with me
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] you know you think Dallas you know almost semitropical you wouldn't have that kind of that kind of problem but
[speaker001:] well for the most part we don't but we have usually just a pocket of really bad hot and really bad cold well the summers have gotten where they're a lot hotter
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] but the the ice storms really are stressful on all the the plants that we have around we've noticed that crepe myrtles don't do as well as they used to
[speaker002:] really oh do they
[speaker001:] and uh pittosporum that used to be the kind of things we could plant all the time you you really take a chance with them freezing
[speaker002:] uh-huh I love yeah I love the uh the landscaping like I say my brother-in-law lives in Plano and I get to Carrollton quite a bit
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] I go there on on business and I really enjoy getting around and seeing the different areas with different gardens and Texas is Dallas Dallas is very nice I really enjoy it there the landscaping the homes the architecture the whole thing very enjoyable gardens and my wife and I
[speaker001:] um-hum except for the lack of trees out where we are it was all cotton fields and when we get to other parts of the country where the trees are so beautiful we really miss it
[speaker002:] well yeah that we have you know Ohio's a a very pretty state we moved in seventy six we moved to Chicago we lived there for five years
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] and I remember the first time I took my wife there on a house hunt uh we were coming in and before the plane landed she looked out the window and she said she said Randy there's no trees down there I said there are this is Illinois you know and when we got out to the area where we decided decided we were going to live and buy a house there were no trees because the farmers had cleared all the land
[speaker001:] hm um-hum
[speaker002:] and now all of a sudden it was being developed and the first thing I did was planted all kinds of trees

[speaker001:] hi Wanet how are you
[speaker002:] ah doing fine where you from
[speaker001:] I'm from New England Massachusetts
[speaker002:] okay I'm from Berkeley California
[speaker001:] wow this is quite a quite a long distance
[speaker002:] ah certainly is
[speaker001:] do you have any pets
[speaker002:] no used to used to but none none right now
[speaker001:] how come uh you don't have any now you get tired of them
[speaker002:] well I I live in an apartment building and and uh and and it it's just just not feasible you know I'd love to have a dog you know
[speaker001:] yeah I've got a little doggy uh that I've had quite uh quite a long time in fact she just turned sixteen years old New Year's Eve
[speaker002:] ah
[speaker001:] and uh
[speaker002:] is she
[speaker001:] I beg your pardon
[speaker002:] what is she
[speaker001:] she's uh uh uh a poodle of a toy poodle a toy poodle and she's
[speaker002:] ah ah my got my mom a teacup poodle not too long ago
[speaker001:] this is a little bigger than a teacup
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] and uh it's funny how uh how I I uh I got acquired this animal uh when I was uh married my uh ex-wife had said that she had a friend who had a little puppy that she needed uh the woman needed someone to babysit and uh this is what she had told the kids and she even told me that and after the two week period was up uh she then informed me that the woman no longer wanted the little puppy and wanted to know if we wanted to keep it well after you had an animal for a couple of weeks it's uh you become attached you become attached to it
[speaker002:] oh for sure oh yeah
[speaker001:] so I've had this dog now for for sixteen years and she's been a lot of company uh she's uh however getting a little old and things are starting to fail um I I live alone now and she stays in the house all day while I go to work and uh she's been holding herself pretty well the uh up until uh you know recently where she's been having accidents in the house because she either is losing control or she forgets where she is and uh I find a little present on the floor sometimes when I come home but she's she's usually pretty good
[speaker002:] yes well my my mother has one it's uh it's uh teacup and uh it's made such a difference for her but you know just I I I you know the way my mom's presence countenance it it's just just for having a puppy but you know having this dog she's had it for I guess three years now
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] oh possibly four but uh it was it it's it's really made such a difference from her I really would like to I'm a disabled person so I'm unable to to really take care of a pet and if if that
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] weren't so I would certainly certainly have one I just I just it frustrates me sometime not being able to have a dog
[speaker001:] um well you might wanna get yourself uh an animal that doesn't require much attention like a cat
[speaker002:] yeah oh yeah well yeah uh I I I typically am not a cat person have a friend that uh has on occasion um brought her cat over for me to keep for you know time to time and and this cat is like no other cat I have ever seen and uh uh it would sleep on my chest you know it's just it is just a great cat but
[speaker001:] yeah well my my personal preference is is a dog uh I don't know that uh that I'd ever want a cat oh I like cats I just wouldn't wanna own one uh they're not uh they're they're affectionate but they yeah I don't know I can't seem to communicate with a cat like I can with my dog
[speaker002:] yeah well you don't own cats yeah you they they own you
[speaker001:] yeah right
[speaker002:] or or you know grant you with their presence you know
[speaker001:] yeah right that your supposed to appreciate them well my my dog when I came home uh when I come home in evenings she my dog greets me at the door I don't know that a cat would do that uh
[speaker002:] yeah I used to have a that that could read me better than any human being in my life
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] I could just walk in the door and she knew whether to to to quietly come up to me or to just run and and knock me over I mean she really could pick up on my mood the way I walked in the door it was uncanny
[speaker001:] yeah yeah hm I I think um you know we're able to read each other pretty well because uh she knows when I'm upset and I know when she's not feeling good too so I know like when she has an accident I know she's not doing it on purpose
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] when she when she was younger she used to do that to get even with me
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] uh and and you know some people might not believe that but uh but I do
[speaker002:] oh hey sure oh absolutely
[speaker001:] like if I if I put her in a room all by herself and close the door and leave her there for a few hours uh because I was going out she would uh break something or rip up the carpet or do something just to uh to to let me know that she was unhappy with what I did yeah
[speaker002:] really yes well I had that that cat that I mentioned I'll be one morning and you know the first thing you do is you get up and you you you you you you feed this cat something something and and you make sure that it can get to its litterbox well
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] some reason during the night the the door was not quite wide enough for it to get through and uh the next morning uh when my roommate got up and and uh did not feed it right away it decided that it was going to protest and so it jumped up on my bed and anointed my blanket for me looking looking at me eye to eye all the time while it was doing it all right have I got your attention now
[speaker001:] oh yes animals have a way of talking
[speaker002:] well it did I tell you if I could have gotten a hold of that cat that day
[speaker001:] I I don't know that I'd uh that I'd trade my dog in for the world uh it was about two years ago she got sick on me and I took her to the uh to the vet's because she wasn't eating and and uh she wasn't able to jump she you know lost all her activity and uh she stayed there for one day and the doctor called me up and said uh she had a low white cell count and that uh she wasn't she was dying and uh suggested that I take her to a working hospital dog hospital animal hospital so I took his suggestion and I uh took the the dog to a hospital a dog hospital and they said that they'd keep her there for three days well she ended up staying there five days at a hundred and something dollars a day because she was in intensive care I mean it cost me over five hundred dollars
[speaker002:] ouch
[speaker001:] plus the the uh the vet sent me a bill for what he did and uh and then she recouped she was okay for a couple of years and then she got sick on me again and I brought her to a different vet this time and I told the vet what medication I had given her and everything and uh he gave me the medication the same medication that I gave her the last time and she was okay and she's been okay ever since it's been about two years now
[speaker002:] uh well that's great it really is I I'm glad you she was able to pull out of it uh and so cheaply the second time
[speaker001:] yeah well the see the problem is if if the if someone wouldn't have came up to me and said it's gonna cost you five hundred dollars to keep your dog alive what do you wanna do I probably would've had second thoughts but what they well what they do is is they say well it's gonna cost
[speaker002:] yeah of course you would
[speaker001:] you know twenty dollars for tests and forty dollars for this and and you know and it creeps up on you you don't know that you know you really you you don't know what it's gonna cost until it's all over
[speaker002:] I
[speaker001:] uh to give you an example my mom uh had an elderly cat who uh who evidently evidently got old uh and uh the cat got sick so she took the cat to the vet and she had the cat there for two days and then the cat died so the doctor had called her up and said uh your cat died and you owe me this bill and oh by the way do you want me to to bury the cat so it cost her three hundred dollars um and she didn't get the cat back so you know they had to pay for all the the medical uh bills that the cat ran up plus the burial expenses and uh you know she just brought the cat in because he wasn't feeling good so that that was a kind of a surprise at least at
[speaker002:] really jeez yeah you kind of wonder what really happened
[speaker001:] yeah well even the you know they they claimed they did the best that they could and then the cat uh died so now I'm looking for another cat for them um I I've I've got a little kitten uh that's still uh oh it just being born right now so another five or six weeks I'll be bringing the little kitten over to uh to my folks
[speaker002:] my goodness  well that that that that will make their day
[speaker001:] yeah it I think it will because they're both in their in their seventies and uh the cat uh although it's a little bit of work for them sometimes turned out it turns out to be a a pleasant experience for them uh I think that they enjoy that
[speaker002:] only work initially
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] for cats anyway you know well listen it's been a pleasure talking to you
[speaker001:] yep well same here
[speaker002:] and you take care
[speaker001:] okay bye now
[speaker002:] yeah maybe maybe we'll talk again sometime
[speaker001:] okay what is that sound
[speaker002:] that's my buzzer at the door
[speaker001:] oh okay I'll let you go
[speaker002:] okay thank you
[speaker001:] right

[speaker001:] So. Have you heard about Saturns?
[speaker002:] [Swallowing] [hum] [breathing] [he seems to be out of breath] I've heard some about Saturns. I don't know [inhaling] a lot about them. I haven't been over, uh, to a dealer to look at them although I did see something in tonight's paper that said that their, uh reliability is rated to be equal to that of the, I guess, the Japanese cars. [what to do about these I guess's] *comment on trans. -? delete line?
[speaker001:] Ooh, that's great. Actually that's kind of the type of car that I, I'm thinking about we might get. Saturns, you can't go to a dealer unless you go to a, a Saturn dealer.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] This, this offshoot of G M [thumping].
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] Yeah.
[speaker001:] And, uh, supposedly, they've got great customer [sniffing] satisfaction from what things I've heard.
[speaker002:] Um. Yeah, I've heard a lot of people like them. Uh, yet I don't know wh-, whether I would buy Saturn or not at this point. I'm kind of, my card and, uh, desires tend to be pretty picky and so, uh.
[speaker001:] Well, like what?
[speaker002:] Well, let's see. I li-, I like cars that are designed with, with human beings in mind,
[speaker001:] [Thumping].
[speaker002:] and that's not just the driver and the passenger but that's the person who's working on it, cause I do al-, almost all my own maintenance and, uh
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] those types of things. And I found that while you can find some cars that are comfortable to ride in, uh, finding a ca-, car anymore that's, that's fairly easy for me to work on, it's just not very eas-, it's not very, almost unlikely at this point.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] And, uh, yo-,
[speaker001:] Yeah. I've got a sixty-five Mustang and
[speaker002:] Ooh.
[speaker001:] I, and I do the work on, most of the work on that myself.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] And when I look at modern cars and stuff like that, I just say I will never do that with the modern cars. It's not worth my time. You can't get in there. You can't do anything.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] And it's so complicated too. I look at it and I say, boy, you know, I, I'd have to almost go take a class or something like that.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] Well I've got an eighty-three Saab.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And I find that for a normal, you know, everyday things. It's really very easy to work on and so, uh, you know, I'm kind of spoiled. I used to have a Chevy.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] With a three fifty in it.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] And, uh, I really liked working on it. Uh, cause it was pretty easy too. It was about a nineteen seventy. So I'm kind of, uh, biased in that and, you know, I want a car that I can work on because I think it just costs too much even to get the oil changed anymore.
[speaker001:] Yeah [thumping].
[speaker002:] And that's kind of, that's, that's probably one thing I'd look at. I think another thing I'd look at is safety.
[speaker001:] Yeah. That's one of the things that my wife and I have thought about. Actually, the car, one of the cars we'd most like to get would be the new ninety-one Ford Taurus cause they're actually one of the cheaper cars that have dual
[speaker002:] Huh.
[speaker001:] side air bags.
[speaker002:] That's a real nice car, I think.
[speaker001:] Yeah [clicking].
[speaker002:] I've driven some, uh, Tauruses over the last couple of years when I've been on business trips.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh [thumping].
[speaker002:] Uh, as rental cars. And I've always been very impressed [swallowing] with the Taurus. It's a really nice car. I think it's very [inhaling], it's a stylish car both inside and out. It's comfortable to drive. Uh, reasonable performance, and this is out in California where, [LAUGHTER] where they don't make a car that's got reasonable performance anymore.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] Uh, I've been real impressed with that. Yo-, and I didn't realize that they were putting dual, uh, air bags in that car now.
[speaker001:] Ninety, yeah. Or, excuse me, the ninety-twos. The
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] ninety-twos had dual air bags. This newest model. You could
[speaker002:] Oh, I think that,
[speaker001:] get them with duals [thumping].
[speaker002:] That's excellent. That's excellent because,
[speaker001:] Yeah. But the thing is that it's twenty thousand dollars. Actually, my, my wife and I are actually thinking, contemplating buying a new car in the next year and a half or so. So we're actually
[speaker002:] Oh.
[speaker001:] been looking around and thinking about things. We'd like to get like a [whistling] oh, I don't know. What do you call it? A dealer return type thing on a ninety-two and ninety-three or something like that you know.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Year old ninety-two or something like that.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh. Sure. Those are
[speaker001:] See if we,
[speaker002:] yeah, that, that would be a good deal to go with.
[speaker001:] And the other thing we're looking at is the Saturns too.
[speaker002:] Okay.
[speaker001:] Because they looked really nice.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh. What do you, what do you looking for in, in those? What, what attracts you to the Saturns? Or, or, of course, we've already talked, you know, the Taurus is safe. But wh-, what kind of things are you looking for?
[speaker001:] Well, the Saturns you can get air bags in them. I don't think you can get dual side air bags.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] But one of the, the two things that [thumping] I'm really, the, the I'd say the most important thing is a car that's not going to fall apart. That doesn't have problems.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] You set down. You look at consumer reports. We've been pouring over consumer reports and you just get so depressed for the U S auto
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] makers when you do that. Because you see the reliability and the types of problems they have and, [talking] and the two cars that apparently are close to that. That actually have high reliability, the Taurus is one of the highest U S cars.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] And the other one is, [thumping] are the Saturns.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] So those two things. And then, you know, [sigh] we kind of want a four door.
[speaker002:] Okay [hum] [breathing].

[speaker001:] well basically uh did you wanna go first then
[speaker002:] uh well I can I I don't own my home um
[speaker001:] okay right
[speaker002:] so I mean I I live in a nice area and I rent my home and uh we aren't sure we're gonna buy a house yet because we don't know if we're gonna be staying here
[speaker001:] um-hum sure uh-huh
[speaker002:] in uh Texas so
[speaker001:] yeah I think as far as like our home is uh in a small residential area and we're out of the cities quite a ways so it's kind of more of a country setting and uh it's just a typical um three bedroom type of home it's it's nothing you know elaborate where it has uh this or this or you know it's it's just a typical home with uh three bedrooms uh two story type home and um
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] and I think as far as if it if we're put it into standards of uh what other homes are around here it would be just about fitting right into the middle part of where the homes are um there's a river across from us which has more elaborate homes and yet there's where we can view the river from that distance there's still homes within our area that are you know pretty typical of what our home is so it's uh pretty much that uh type of um home so
[speaker002:] um-hum yeah well our home our house we we're renting it from an individual who bought it and he lives in Korea and and uh he's recently moved here and he's owns eight or nine properties
[speaker001:] uh uh-huh oh really hm sure
[speaker002:] uh near here and uh so but the houses around here there's five five houses on my street for sale right now
[speaker001:] uh-huh yeah oh yeah yeah
[speaker002:] which is just uh incredible incredible to me and they're not very expensive either it just seems like we we have a three bedroom house ours is one level only um but we
[speaker001:] yeah um-hum so it's a rambler style
[speaker002:] yeah we have two two living areas and a dining room and a big kitchen and the bedrooms are a little bit small except the master bedroom's a little bigger so
[speaker001:] um-hum yeah yeah it's kind of like what ours is uh our one of our bedrooms is really small and we've made that into a den because we only have one child so that was our best way of going with uh the small bedrooms because they are making bedrooms smaller and smaller it seems like they get incredibly small um but uh
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] anyway but okay that sounds great and uh I don't know if we need to talk anymore or whatever
[speaker002:] have you done have you done this before
[speaker001:] the TI um yes uh about three times and so I'm fairly new to it but it seems to be going okay
[speaker002:] uh-huh oh have you yeah are you in Texas no yeah
[speaker001:] no huh-uh no I'm out of state I'm in Wisconsin so yeah yeah so its
[speaker002:] oh really oh
[speaker001:] um other than that sure yeah is this your first time
[speaker002:] sounds interesting no huh-uh I've oh I've gotten several calls um but uh
[speaker001:] uh-huh I'm the always the one that initiates the calls because I kind of like it because it's like I can get it done with I don't have to wait until somebody called me even though I have a feeling what's gonna happen is I'll probably get tons of calls you know so
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] sooner or later
[speaker002:] yeah yeah well they've I've talked to some people from Cleveland and I did talk to someone else who lives here uh in the same city I do so that was kind of interesting
[speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh yeah yeah yeah sure
[speaker002:] they're they're sure getting their people out so well it was nice to talk to you anyway and okay thanks bye-bye
[speaker001:] yes okay well you take it easy Gail um-hum bye now

[speaker001:] okay we we can uh be recorded while we talk about it
[speaker002:] okay well is your does your city have mandatory recycling uh recycling
[speaker001:] no we don't have mandatory we actually we're kind of slow up here and we've just started doing recycling probably last summer and it's all voluntary so that's interesting cities have a mandatory recycling
[speaker002:] um there there's some places that are strongly encouraging it then that the city will pick it up that's been one of the arguments here I'm just sitting here looking we've got four bins of glass and plasticine stuff but we have to carry it um some distance and some places um you can sell your uh recyclables and um for example um our church was was collecting newspapers
[speaker001:] yeah when when I was a kid we used to collect newspapers and bring them to a recycle thing we got like a penny a pound for them
[speaker002:] well it turns out that so much the problem in Texas is that uh they've got so much paper now from people recycling that they've got no way to uh reprocess it
[speaker001:] oh my
[speaker002:] that it requires an extremely it requires uh essentially a paper mill to recycle it and so the value has gone down it turns out it wasn't worth it for the church to do
[speaker001:] wow I didn't I didn't realize you would think now up here I I suppose they send it all back to the mill and there are paper mills within a couple of hundred miles of uh actually there is one in northern Vermont so there's probably a paper mill that's sixty miles from here I didn't think that you know in the large city that if the next recycling if the next mill is more like five hundred miles away it's a lot of money to transport
[speaker002:] well yeah well see that's in in Dallas there there no plan to build I think that there's some in East Texas there's some pulp mills but uh you have to go to Houston and uh it's interesting and then there's places that'll buy metal and they still buy aluminum can in fact that
[speaker001:] do you have to buy metal copper is a very good one to collect even aluminum yeah so
[speaker002:] well do you do do you do recycling
[speaker001:] uh we do do recycling and our city will pick up our recyclables they have these little blue bins um I don't recycle personally I I'm saying I want to do it
[speaker002:] oh
[speaker001:] but I don't get a lot of magazines I don't get a I don't buy the newspaper but I do have a lot of uh my trash has a lot of tin cans and a lot of cardboard a lot of different papers and cardboards
[speaker002:] well do you do you drink soda and such in aluminum cans
[speaker001:] yes but we have a bottle return a lot of the northern states and a lot of the eastern states have bottles we've had five cent deposits on our bottles for years
[speaker002:] oh so it's worth taking them back well see we don't have we have we have most of our soft drinks are in plastic liter or two liter bottles
[speaker001:] oh they should definitely get um the nickel returnable it's great for the kids because see a lot of the kids get the money from it and it's great for the boy scouts running around they knock door to door and the collect the bottles sometimes
[speaker002:] oh that's interesting you know that you know that there is a down side to all this you know about no good deed going unpunished that uh my mother sells um trees that they make paper out of and so every time I recycle newspapers uh in fact there's uh there's a uh Kimberly and Clark the the makers of kleenex and such
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] has a uh a big paper mill in fact I almost went to work for them I was offered a job and turned it down because my mother got it for me but it's twenty or thirty miles from my house every time you recycle that's one less tree my mother can sell and uh so it's a question should I be diligent and um um
[speaker001:] and recycle
[speaker002:] and and recycle and put my mother out of her livelihood
[speaker001:] uh uh yeah I see that
[speaker002:] but it it it's an interesting point though that uh you know everybody's so anxious to recycle and I suppose it does provide some gainful employment but uh
[speaker001:] but it takes away employment from the resource that its using
[speaker002:] well but in general I think it's a good idea because there's like the glass you can't argue that the glass it doesn't biodegrade and and uh the plastics obviously they don't
[speaker001:] I do too uh they don't either
[speaker002:] so we might as well recycle those
[speaker001:] yeah like I say it's not a very controversial thing everyone thinks we should do it it's just that we're so lazy I mean like personally I don't want to clean my I just have can cat food I don't want to clean the can and take the label off it and put it in a separate bin
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] you know I'd just rather get rid of that thing and throw it in the trash
[speaker002:] well that's what we've got ours we we started about New Year's we decided we'd get ambitious we took one load over there and now we've got these containers filling up with stuff and you know it it it's not a very high priority thing to go haul these uh containers over there
[speaker001:] well I think I I would be like when I bring my bottles back um if if if they're pretty clean and stuff so they can sit in my cellar for a couple of months and I get a whole bunch of them and bring them over and bring them over now if I had a recycling center and I kept it clean like if you said wash all the cans and things I wouldn't mind if it sat around too much but if if it stunk or something I wouldn't like doing it but um I produce quite a bit of trash my you know house and I see it but I don't see so much that I can recycle like I say it's a lot of different type paper and cardboard I'm not a real plastic person user but a lot of paper
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] um pretty much and I and I don't know how they sort that but if if I used a lot of can goods and I do use a lot of laundry detergent and a lot of plastic bottles I would think that I would I would have a recycling center but now it's just me and my husband so I don't know
[speaker002:] but every little bit helps right
[speaker001:] yeah I know what you're saying like well we have it at work we have a very aggressive recycling at work and I'm the one who will pick the newspaper out of the trash and bring it to the recycle bin see some people the recycle bin is on their way out
[speaker002:] what
[speaker001:] instead of carrying your newspapers when they get done with them at the end of the day they throw them in the trash
[speaker002:] well do you have separate trash cans at your desk
[speaker001:] um no we don't but other other offices do they have a box for papers
[speaker002:] well we have we have one that's recyclable and and then for uh lunch sacks and and waste food and and they gave us a list of things that aren't recycle and it turns out it's not so bad I I I get a lot of reports that that are covered in plastic or plastic like Saran Wrap or something anyway and then uh and cardboard there's a few interesting that we're we're recycling computer type paper
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] and and and uh one day they'll pick up uh the the cleaning people come through and they'll pick up recycled paper and then the next day they'll pick up the other so
[speaker001:] oh
[speaker002:] depending on how much uh you know and there's a lot of uh actually it works pretty well and then we have uh uh waste uh cans for aluminum in the in the break areas at work and so
[speaker001:] well that's that's a really good idea because um like our uh fruit fruit juices for some reason when they're in a can don't come with a deposit it
[speaker002:] oh
[speaker001:] they're they're thinking about putting a deposit on them because pretty much you have to you're having a whole separate recyclable bin just for these fruit cans where they're so much easier just to put a deposit on it because most
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] probably ninety percent of the aluminum cans do have deposits because they're beer and soda but when they sell juice it's some strange quirk in the law you don't have to have a deposit on it and even like the you know a very fine juice jar does not have to have a deposit on it but if it's got soda in it it does so it's a strange
[speaker002:] that's an interesting distinction that
[speaker001:] yeah they should they should clean clear that up it wouldn't take them much to put a stamp on uh on the uh juice cans as easily as the soda
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] so but redemption centers are a big thing up here they get a penny a can they handle they give you five cents and the when they return the can to the distributor I think they either get a penny or two pennies a can
[speaker002:] well see well see those of us that don't have state income taxes yet that's the big debate here in Texas that they their the legislature wants to put one in and it's interesting what people get upset about uh
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] it it really is the the
[speaker001:] is bottle is bottle return down there a heated debate
[speaker002:] well no the the big issue was is is uh when we moved here a few years ago is whether it was okay for you to uh drink beer while you were driving your pickup truck
[speaker001:] oh yeah
[speaker002:] and throw it out the at the and at uh so
[speaker001:] well we well well well here you can't can't drink
[speaker002:] we're we're now civilized now you can no longer you you cannot drink beer and drive but uh but it was it was actually legal
[speaker001:] well yes well I know I was in Atlanta and you could walk out the bar with your drink in your hand but here let me put that in a paper cup for you so that was strange but I think if some people they have they say well we're not going to start a can deposit because you have to get all these um the the recycle center you have to deal with the can and then you have to to recycle it and their problem's already solved because they can just come to states that do have bottle deposits
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] see how they handle it and see if it's a good way and then do it that way because as I like to say people are making money on it the cans do are worth something
[speaker002:] well you know the other well the other thing is it also is is a is a a good habit uh to uh just to conserve resources you know whether you know because when you get in the habit of doing that you think in terms of of uh of of things like saving gas

[speaker001:] [Noise] [piano in background] Okay.
[speaker002:] Okay. I guess we're set.
[speaker001:] Um,
[speaker002:] Current events.
[speaker001:] I get my current events basically from news, uh, just because I watch,
[speaker002:] Television news?
[speaker001:] pretty much a lot of television, um,
[speaker002:] Is it, uh, C N N or HEADLINE NEWS or just local,
[speaker001:] Uh,
[speaker002:] news or,
[speaker001:] I watch a little bit of everything. I like to tune into, to C N N because, uh, you know, you can tune in like any time of day and pretty much get the update on,
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] everything,
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] in about five or ten minutes. I think news today, um, it's kind of losing its importance. Like on, in, on radio, if you hear any news at all, it's like two seconds.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] You know, really quickly,
[speaker002:] Well,
[speaker001:] on regular stations.
[speaker002:] on commercial radio, I guess, I, I tend to get more of my news from national public radio of the morning on the way to work,
[speaker001:] Yeah, that's good, too, uh-huh.
[speaker002:] or evening on the way to school so,
[speaker001:] I like K R L D.
[speaker002:] So, I don't, uh,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] I don't see much T V mostly when I'm in school, but I do here.
[speaker001:] Yeah, where do you go to school?
[speaker002:] Uh, University of Texas at Dallas.
[speaker001:] Oh, Okay. I went to U T at Austin.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] But, uh, I'm a news reporter so I, [LAUGHTER] I should get all I can, my news from the new-, from the T V.
[speaker002:] Really.
[speaker001:] But, um,
[speaker002:] I do tend to throw on HEADLINE NEWS when I'm doing things around the house and just let it play,
[speaker001:] Yeah,
[speaker002:] and listen, but, uh,
[speaker001:] I usually don't intentionally. Although I should, I don't intentionally turn on the television to watch news.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] Or I don't intentionally turn on the radio to listen to the news. If it comes on, I just happen to hear it. Now, I will intentionally buy a newspaper to wa-, to, [NOISE] [piano in background] to look at the news. But other,
[speaker002:] Yeah, all I ever get out of the paper is a Sunday paper so,
[speaker001:] Yeah, that's true.
[speaker002:] I read the comics.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] That's about it.
[speaker002:] That's about it, yeah.
[speaker001:] The Sunday paper, it's so full of stuff, but you pick your favorite section, and the rest,
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] you throw away.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] Although you paid, what, almost two dollars now to get it but,
[speaker002:] I like to listen to, uh, national public radio on the way to work because it's, I don't know, it's variety, and now,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] they're throwing in a little news and a little bit of other stuff. It
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] tends to get like HEADLINE NEWS if you listen to it for an hour.
[speaker001:] Is it, is it pretty good coverage on there?
[speaker002:] Yeah, it usually is. They throw in a lot of, you know, a lot of interviews and commentaries. It's kind of like getting a newspaper. There's a lot of
[speaker001:] Yeah, yeah.
[speaker002:] sections to it and
[speaker001:] Um.
[speaker002:] they, they present different sides of things.
[speaker001:] Because I find like on K R L D, I like to listen to that, but each story is like no more than two or three lines, you know.
[speaker002:] Oh, well they spend a little more time, you know, they cover the headlines,
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] and then they go into a lot of the issues and
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] things where they, they spend five or ten minutes discussing something and,
[speaker001:] Yeah, that would probably be better.
[speaker002:] interviewing people. And it's,
[speaker001:] Especially when you look for the, like, popular radio stations like mostly the music stations, news is, is pretty much nonexistent.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] They have little, little, teeny-weeny news,
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] breaks, you know.
[speaker002:] Yeah, and only in the morning, I guess, there's a little bit.
[speaker001:] Yeah, yeah, basically.
[speaker002:] I haven't listened to a [breathing] top forty radio station in so long I wouldn't know.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] So,
[speaker001:] So let's see, um,
[speaker002:] And I guess I get some kinds of other, you know, business related news through trade journals and things but,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Uh,
[speaker001:] The only reason I get trade journals is like if I'm looking for a job or something [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Right [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Which is what I'm doing now.
[speaker002:] Yeah,
[speaker001:] But, um,
[speaker002:] a lot of people are.
[speaker001:] Yeah, [LAUGHTER] trying to get out of wherever they are but, um, I think, I think news is, I'm wondering where it's going. You know how, I think it will be nonex-, pretty much [breathing] nonexistent except maybe through the paper. I know the newspaper used to be kind of the only source for news. And now, it's, it's kind of your final choice. You watch, first you go to C N N, then you go to radio or something like that.
[speaker002:] Yeah, where nobody wants,
[speaker001:] And I think it,
[speaker002:] to sit down and read.
[speaker001:] Yeah, yeah.
[speaker002:] It's, it takes a lot more time to read something,
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] and you've got news,
[speaker001:] So much more effort.
[speaker002:] bombarding you from everywhere now.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] You know you,
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] turn on the T V, turn on the radio.
[speaker001:] But I think that soon the paper may be kind of the only source again.
[speaker002:] Why is that?
[speaker001:] I don't, well, just because I'm, I'm thinking that it, it's getting so short on radio. You still, you have two or three, I know in Dallas you can probably get two, two all news radio stations out of I don't how many popular radio stations. And then on television, you have just the news at six and ten.
[speaker002:] Yeah, I just,
[speaker001:] And I just, I just see that dwindling in, in,
[speaker002:] I find it hard to believe that people will go back to reading over television, I mean, just given the way society is. And I enjoy reading, but most
[speaker001:] True, yeah.
[speaker002:] people would rather turn on the tube and, and, and,
[speaker001:] True. That's true, too, yeah.
[speaker002:] flip through the channels, you know, and get the headline news at thirty minutes of,
[speaker001:] Than sit down and take the effort to read
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] the paper.
[speaker002:] And they don't have to go get one, you know.
[speaker001:] One thing I like about the paper, um, as opposed [NOISE] [piano in background] to television is that, uh, when I, like when I report, because I'm in television, I have to get the basic, the main facts and that's it. That's all you have time for.
[speaker002:] Right. Right.
[speaker001:] Whereas in the paper, I like to read the articles because they get every side, every single side, and, and every point they make, you know.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] And, and it's all there.
[speaker002:] Well, that's why I like, uh, national public radio
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] because they get on one of these little things, they give you headlines that are brief, just, they touch on what's going on. And then they'll get into something and really explore it.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh, uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And it's, it's informative. It's a lot more informative than, you know, quick, half hour news shows that
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] they tell you what they want you to hear.
[speaker001:] Yeah, because that's what we do. I mean it's like each story is thirty seconds, you know.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] So it's like you really have to tell as much as you can which is not much in that amount of time. So, and it will probably get shorter and shorter as the years go by I think. I don't know.
[speaker002:] Yeah, there's so much going on in the world.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Communication, you know, expands the world now.
[speaker001:] Oh, yeah.
[speaker002:] There's too much going on. You can't afford to give more than a couple of seconds here and there.
[speaker001:] I think that is one good thing, one great thing, about news, and we saw it during the war just now, is that we got all the information within minutes, you know.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Whatever happened, we knew about it about the same time that they knew about it.
[speaker002:] And the question is, how much of it or how, some of it, I guess, there's a lot of debate about censorship and
[speaker001:] Yeah, yeah.
[speaker002:] and what we're really seeing.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Is it, is it the true story or is it a
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] little bit biased.
[speaker001:] Because even though we do get the story right away, they were censored as to what they
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] could tell us. So all we had to sit here and, and ask is well, what aren't they telling us, you know. So that, that was pretty scary. But we, I talked to one woman, and she said that she didn't want to know what was going on because if she had a son over in Saudi Arabia, she wouldn't want to know, you know, that they're bombing or, or this and that's going on. And at the same time, I talked to another woman, and she was so happy to know because she lived through Vietnam. And she didn't know what was happening at that time.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] And she was so happy to get the information, you know. So there's just a lot of different opinions on that. But,
[speaker002:] I, I, you know, I like to, to know what's going on. Sometimes I think there's just a little bit too much.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] You know you get in the habit of, like I say, turn on Headline News and it will play over and over [LAUGHTER],
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] and you just tune it out because it's the same thing but,
[speaker001:] And then, too, a lot of times I think, uh, especially on television they blow things completely out of proportion.
[speaker002:] Yeah, they tend to,
[speaker001:] Like,
[speaker002:] dramatize things.
[speaker001:] You know, like this Kennedy thing.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] [Clicking] [sounds like a keyboard] It's just, I mean, everywhere you turn. Kennedy, Kennedy, Kennedy. You know, what kind of shoes did he wear on the night? And you know, it's just like, okay, this is ridiculous.
[speaker002:] Like who cares? Really.
[speaker001:] So,
[speaker002:] Well,
[speaker001:] But what are you doing? Sitting on a computer?
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] I heard the little clicking.
[speaker002:] Trying to do some C programming.
[speaker001:] Oh, okay. Well, it was nice talking to you.
[speaker002:] Okay [breathing].
[speaker001:] Okay.
[speaker002:] Take care.
[speaker001:] Take care.
[speaker002:] Bye-bye.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh, bye.

[speaker001:] okay
[speaker002:] so Jan how do they recycle in Texas
[speaker001:] well I the biggest uh way it's going right now uh lot most of the grocery stores
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] have got uh things set up so where you can bring in your uh plastic and your cans and newspapers and then they've just got different barrels sitting out I shouldn't say barrels like big John Doors or whatever they're called Gondolas um they've got them set outside and
[speaker002:] uh-huh yeah yeah
[speaker001:] and uh
[speaker002:] is it is it all voluntary
[speaker001:] yes it's all voluntary now they do have some places where you can take things and get cash but I think the lot of people don't really want the cash you know they just want to uh help recycle which is what we do you know we
[speaker002:] right um-hum yeah um-hum
[speaker001:] probably the only thing sometimes we'll take cash or the cans in and we let the kids get the money for that but uh for
[speaker002:] right yeah there's a a lot of projects where the the Boy Scouts and things and that will collect your cans and it's a good fund raiser for the kids
[speaker001:] right right yeah that's true but but that's really the the biggest thing around here is the grocery stores participating you know but
[speaker002:] um-hum I guess I you see I guess it depends on your landfill space
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] I know I we're in Maryland but my I from Pennsylvania and my parents how are forced recycling
[speaker001:] oh really
[speaker002:] uh yeah all plastic they have all plastic has to go into a recycling bin all cans have to be recycled all newspapers have to be recycled
[speaker001:] oh wow
[speaker002:] because they're um they're just running out of space and landfills uh Pennsylvania Ohio and New York are some of the uh they're using their landfills up faster than they can get new ones
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] so it's really uh it's uh really hard on them now up here in Maryland though we're just just in a voluntary recycling stage right now so uh so my wife and I you know we save our bottles and we save our newspapers and we save all of our plastic and all of our tin cans and just like you say we go to uh a community area where they have it set up and we dump them off there
[speaker001:] so it's all about you say it is all voluntary do they
[speaker002:] yeah it's still voluntary though I think I think we're supposed to have something impeme implemented by nineteen ninety three though
[speaker001:] will it be mandatory
[speaker002:] where some aspects will be mandatory um-hum
[speaker001:] is it all um is there any place at all where you do get cash for this stuff or is it all
[speaker002:] mostly just the cans
[speaker001:] okay yeah that's
[speaker002:] and I and most of the time like I said that's that's a sort of like fund raiser things that the schools do or that the Boy Scouts do or whatever
[speaker001:] right right yeah that's true that's true
[speaker002:] yeah um-hum cans are the only thing I think you really get money for
[speaker001:] well they do have places around here where you can get money for your newspapers and stuff like that but
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] you know I think a lot of people like I said are more concerned with you know right now you know the aspects of saving the earth um
[speaker002:] right um-hum yeah and I think that's mostly well you know we even before as soon as the community said you know we're going to put up bins for recycling you know we automatically
[speaker001:] um-hum right
[speaker002:] started doing it it was it's one of those things you know and just going and taking the time to go and read the signs and the brochures on what they accept and how it should be separated you know that's
[speaker001:] um-hum well I tell you it's kind of funny now at even even at TI I don't do you work for TI okay
[speaker002:] no hum-um
[speaker001:] um at TI they're doing recycling I mean for a long time they didn't do this but now they're they're recycling cans and paper we have separate bins
[speaker002:] um-hum yeah
[speaker001:] uh separate wastebaskets in our offices for paper
[speaker002:] um-hum yeah
[speaker001:] you know and they I mean it's tremendous how much money they have saved and even saving all these trees and you know
[speaker002:] right
[speaker001:] it's really I can't believe that you know because they've got it all posted all over the place how much they're saving and how well yeah
[speaker002:] yeah how much how well they're doing yeah we do I um I I work in a uh speech interface lab at a at a at a college
[speaker001:] oh okay
[speaker002:] and we do basically the same thing the state of Maryland has lost asked all the colleges and universities and some of the large organizations you know if they would definitely recycle their office paper
[speaker001:] um-hum um-hum
[speaker002:] and the same thing you know every almost every college in Maryland is recycling office paper but you know in the giant bins around and it's surprising how much
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] you never realize because that janitor comes around and empties your garbage can every night
[speaker001:] right yep so you don't think about it
[speaker002:] you don't notice until you start leaving yeah they don't pick up your recycling until it's full and you just can't believe how much paper that you uh
[speaker001:] right I know
[speaker002:] reams of paper come out of an office every day they just asked me to recycle
[speaker001:] yep yeah well you think about the waste even I mean you know cost wise and and you know like you saving saving trees and stuff like that I mean it's just amazing you know the difference
[speaker002:] um-hum right yeah so I think hopefully if you know I guess a lot of the large organizations probably TI did they advertise on television how successful they are
[speaker001:] no I haven't seen anything uh but that doesn't mean that they don't I don't watch much TV but I haven't really seen anything advertised publicly
[speaker002:] some yeah yeah um-hum
[speaker001:] I mean like I said they do a lot of internal advertising on that kind of stuff but I haven't seen anything
[speaker002:] internal um-hum yeah
[speaker001:] see I don't see a lot of TI advertisements on TV anyway I think they advertise more um other places where they're not located
[speaker002:] right yeah that would probably be true
[speaker001:] you know so so I don't see a lot of advertisements for TI
[speaker002:] um-hum yeah because I know that some of the large industries here will advertise on television you know they'll just come up and say you know they'll show you they'll to encourage to encourage recycling
[speaker001:] right
[speaker002:] they'll say and here those of us at Dalmarva Power which is our power company you know we now recycle forty five percent of our solid waste and they
[speaker001:] uh-huh right
[speaker002:] and uh we do this for the community they put those on so I so I think you know we're probably reaching a successful stage and and just with voluntary I think
[speaker001:] right well even I mean in the kid's schools I mean they do things to try and recycle and
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] I know my kids um like if they see litter on the ground they pick it up and say oh look at that somebody is not saving the earth you know so I mean the kids I mean they're really trying to educate all ages you know and it's good to start the kids real young
[speaker002:] right yeah yeah I think so too yeah
[speaker001:] and stuff like that because I mean when I was a kid they never did stuff like that I mean it's like nobody was concerned about it you know and it's like
[speaker002:] right yeah we weren't concerned yeah that's true
[speaker001:] you know it's like all of a sudden when there's noticeable things saying hey you know we're ruining the earth you know and now everybody is doing something about which is good
[speaker002:] um-hum um-hum
[speaker001:] but how come we weren't doing this say twenty years ago you know
[speaker002:] yeah I I think really probably what hit people's you know I know that here in the up in the uh uh the the New England area and also in in Pennsylvania Ohio and New York the just run all of a sudden we're out of landfill
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] and then they're saying we we estimate this landfill will be over will be full in two years unless we cut back
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] and even then you know we're really running out of space so I think that that became that all of a sudden really hit home that there's no longer landfill space in some of the more crowded states
[speaker001:] well yeah this is
[speaker002:] so what you know and no no other state I'm sure Texas probably still has some landfill space they're not going to voluntarily say hey ship your garbage here
[speaker001:] right yeah that's true
[speaker002:] so you know realistically you know we had we really had to start we have to start recycling in some some uh geographic areas it's really tough
[speaker001:] I think that it it really surprises me because of the cost savings I mean this is such a tremendous amount of cost savings I mean why
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] I can't understand why nobody saw that before I mean even even not
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] even the aspects of not saving the earth I mean it's so cost you know
[speaker002:] right yeah though well well in some ways I guess it it doesn't become really cost savings until you have an industry around it you know because I know that like in Pennsylvania
[speaker001:] well yeah
[speaker002:] they require them to um put their newspaper for recycling but the deinking process that they have to they use to take the ink out of the newspaper so it can be reused
[speaker001:] um-hum uh-huh
[speaker002:] um is very expensive and also it waste it produces a a waste a um a liquid waste that they don't know what to do with yet
[speaker001:] oh oh I see okay
[speaker002:] so even some aspects of recycling
[speaker001:] is not real cost efficient oh okay okay oh I understand that though
[speaker002:] still have cost yeah cost efficient yet yeah so but others you know like tin cans and plastics are are really uh efficient you know they uh they melt they melt on quickly and can be you know just because of the heating and things yeah and glass yeah
[speaker001:] uh-huh right and glass right um-hum
[speaker002:] so yeah it really is surprising that people haven't noticed it before
[speaker001:] yeah that's true and even I I noticed that a lot of gas stations are telling you to recycle your oil
[speaker002:] um-hum yeah um-hum
[speaker001:] and I mean that kind of surprises me I mean you know because once oil gets so you know thick and yucky you'd wonder how they could you know clean that up enough to use it again but they can
[speaker002:] yeah um-hum
[speaker001:] um I don't know how cost efficient that would be I guess
[speaker002:] yeah I don't I don't know either that's I know that though I even all those petroleum products though are so terrible for your um the water table you know they really pollute quickly and
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] you know one I was what reading some place that the brake fluid you put brake fluid normally comes in just small little pint containers
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] that one pint of brake fluid can contaminate so many gallons of water you know like hundreds of gallons of water
[speaker001:] wow
[speaker002:] so it's one of those things that they really um and you wonder you know with all these oil spills
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] how how terrible that is yeah how terrible that is so we'll have to we'll have to keep our eyes on all that I guess
[speaker001:] yeah I know really I know I really I don't know I I think that I mean I think that they really are doing a good thing now and I hope it keeps it well I'm sure it'll keep up
[speaker002:] um-hum yeah I agree
[speaker001:] you know I think it's really catching on you know I I think that
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] I'm not sure if it I don't know I think it's a good idea to make it mandatory
[speaker002:] I do too
[speaker001:] um because like we were asking some people that live in um North Dakota well are you saving your you know are you recycling and they said well we're not forced to do it yet so no
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] you know so I mean I don't know I think that if people are forced if the people are not forced to do it they may not you know I mean I don't know I think a lot of people still still still will but
[speaker002:] yeah it well you know if they're forced to do it becomes sort of a habit
[speaker001:] right
[speaker002:] you know I know that it's really funny my parents are forced to do it and they

[speaker001:] are you a Vietnam veteran Dudley
[speaker002:] uh no
[speaker001:] no do you have family who were in the Vietnam War
[speaker002:] uh no my father was uh came in right after world war two
[speaker001:] okay so he was too old and you're too young right yeah all right do you know some folks who have been there
[speaker002:] I am too young yeah um yes a couple
[speaker001:] okay okay how did it influence them
[speaker002:] uh the the one guy I worked with down in Austin hated it uh he was a lineman down there and while he was there he caught some kind of a strange disease
[speaker001:] um-hum um-hum
[speaker002:] and uh all his hair fell out and he had like a hundred and five fever for a while and
[speaker001:] um-hum uh what about long lasting effects on him has he still suffering from those problems
[speaker002:] I do not think he was in combat so
[speaker001:] um-hum well I've talked with a number of Vietnam veterans and I really I had no one directly related to me involved
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] but uh my sister's husband was in Vietnam and it it really made a completely different man out of him he went to Vietnam one man and came back another not better
[speaker002:] um-hum yeah
[speaker001:] then uh another friend of mine went and he was in combat but he came back and he said okay that's it that is behind me I am going on with my life much like what Roger Staubach did
[speaker002:] right
[speaker001:] he was uh he was a Vietnam war veteran and uh
[speaker002:] yeah but he was in the Navy though he was it makes a lot of difference
[speaker001:] yeah that's true right and but uh most of the folks that I have met that were actually on the land or in combat are still still carry a lot of anger
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] they really do and uh I I I I really do not think that we did those young men right I think that uh Desert Storm shows a lot of learning since that time
[speaker002:] oh yeah
[speaker001:] uh
[speaker002:] well the armed forces did so much to you know Agent Orange they did so much to their own people all during that time you know and they take they take a even now uh they take a free hand as far as medicine and
[speaker001:] yeah that's true yeah
[speaker002:] uh you know how they treat the war casualties you know if you come back and your leg's blown off you know or or it is hanging by a thread they still can't put it back together now but
[speaker001:] um-hum um-hum uh-huh
[speaker002:] but what they do afterwards and how they rehabilitate rehabilitate you
[speaker001:] well you know one of the most troublesome things that I have encountered as a result is the incredible influx of southeast Asians into this country since that conflict uh not so much that I say I do not want you here but there is just such a surge
[speaker002:] um-hum yeah
[speaker001:] of southeast Asians it has affected the culture of this country uh very much
[speaker002:] oh yeah it's about it's about nine or ten percent now
[speaker001:] yeah yeah yeah well uh the culture's changing look how much more oriental food we have restaurants now for example
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] uh even ten years ago there weren't that many a lot of shops are are operated by uh southeast Asians
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] a lot of people have complained in the schools there is a culture change there the southeast Asians seem to be very hungry there seem to be very studious and uh tends to cause our kids to really have to buckle down to keep up with them which is not bad not really uh but it might in the long run you can see where
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] scholarships for example uh even jobs
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] uh jobs that would normally go to an American with a lesser education might be going to to some of these people here and that is all a result of of of Vietnam and and you see a lot of a lot of men that were over there brought families back
[speaker002:] yeah that's
[speaker001:] uh and it concerns me that there is probably a lot of mixed breed youngsters still there and I'd be concerned or interested to find out how they are doing now
[speaker002:] um-hum well they are probably not doing very well at all because I know there's there's still people even in the Dallas area there are there are still people trying to get some member of their family back from uh Vietnam
[speaker001:] I know that they're you are talking about POW's or missing in actions
[speaker002:] um uh native native Vietnamese people
[speaker001:] native Vietnamese people okay
[speaker002:] yeah they were lost you know when they were little and and they could never did get back
[speaker001:] oh I hadn't that that hadn't occurred to me
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] that'd be an interesting concept
[speaker002:] and uh and uh that's is really a big waste because they didn't they didn't win they didn't regain any of the land that they had it spilled over into uh now I can't even think of the country but
[speaker001:] Cambodia
[speaker002:] yeah Cambodia and to Laos and
[speaker001:] um-hum um-hum
[speaker002:] and all they did is run and hide and they weren't really fighting you know it it would've been the same as Desert Storm if all they had been fighting was North Vietnam
[speaker001:] um-hum um-hum
[speaker002:] but and I am not even sure who was involved more whether it was China or Russia you know they were pouring they were pouring weapons in there and
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] and advising well digging tunnels for them you know and there is no way that they could ever catch them
[speaker001:] um-hum well I think the terrain had a lot to do with the the success of Desert Storm as opposed to that in Vietnam
[speaker002:] yeah that is right
[speaker001:] you know there is incredible cover in Vietnam and you can't find much cover on in a sand dune
[speaker002:] um-hum yeah yeah and all they can do is dig in and they you know and then they try to camouflage the top
[speaker001:] that's right um-hum um-hum
[speaker002:] well now even I think even now in in Vietnam they could probably have done a better job because they could they could kill all those plants you know which would devastate the country as far as farming from then on but and the and the Corps of Engineers I think do a better job now like they did in Desert Storm
[speaker001:] well
[speaker002:] because they had he he dug a bunch of moats and filled them with oil and he set a lot of booby traps all along the way as they went and they had to you know they had to blow them up or
[speaker001:] um-hum um-hum
[speaker002:] or disarm them and then they had to fill in little bridges all the way where he where he'd made those moats
[speaker001:] um-hum what war do you think they found the experience for that
[speaker002:] uh
[speaker001:] don't you think they learned from the mistakes in Vietnam
[speaker002:] well yeah partially uh-huh yeah part of it is technology yeah because all go ahead
[speaker001:] part of it's that part of it's technology but but when when when you get into trouble like that in a place like Vietnam you do tend to analyze the problems that you get into and you sa y never more and and you overcome those problems and you are prepared next time
[speaker002:] yeah I think that's one of the reasons that they've they've pretty much avoided getting involved in South America because
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] look what happened when they were looking for Noriega and they lost him for four hours when they were right on top of him you know he probably just went down into a tunnel
[speaker001:] right um-hum sure sure sure well I know that from a personal standpoint people was one of the finest assets that we lost we didn't actually physically lose them they did not lose their lives but they lost a whole lot of the life they might have had
[speaker002:] yeah that is right
[speaker001:] uh being entirely different people I had dinner Monday night with a Vietnam veteran who is just now beginning to recover from the drug and alcohol struggle that he had
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] that's a long time to suffer
[speaker002:] yeah and they they really need everybody that's that's stood there it's when in in Vietnam I think it was much closer contact you stand there with a rifle and blow a a piece of somebody apart
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] or blow their head off and that has to affect you if you are human you know so they had to work all that that anger out and the and the nightmares that come along with it
[speaker001:] um-hum oh yeah yeah I can't uh oh yeah you bet you bet
[speaker002:] I don't I do not really think that anybody can ever forget forget that but they can they can reason and and try to adjust to to why they were there
[speaker001:] um-hum yeah well you see that's what the veterans are so angry about now they say well we're going to listen to this and we're going to look at this find out what our mistakes were and we're not gonna make them again but that doesn't undo the ones that were done and that's what makes the veterans angry
[speaker002:] right
[speaker001:] and I can't blame them I don't know a solution
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] but I sure can't blame them for being angry on the other hand you know you can be angry about something for a very long time or you can say well that is the way it is and go on with your life
[speaker002:] right
[speaker001:] uh for the most part I wish that it hadn't happened but it did so
[speaker002:] yeah and that and that was that was in the in the era when Kennedy was president that they were afraid of everything you know and and and they fought initially got into it because of Eisenhower
[speaker001:] that's right
[speaker002:] and he just he didn't want to be in it any more than than what we started out in August with Desert Storm and then it just blew up into the war
[speaker001:] oh yeah well it has been that way for a very very long time though I can remember when I was in the sixth grade and that was many years ago we were reading about the French struggling with that in southeast Asia
[speaker002:] French yeah um-hum
[speaker001:] so and and and the Asians historically have always had these kinds of wars going on there there has not been a lot of peace in that part of the world
[speaker002:] right um-hum
[speaker001:] I really I don't know it we should not have maybe gotten involved but if we did we certainly should have supported our people who were there more so supported them when they got home
[speaker002:] yeah right
[speaker001:] and uh I am afraid that they were treated as castaways for the most part
[speaker002:] exactly
[speaker001:] and I I saw the movie Born On The Fourth Of July and I think it did a good job depicting the temperament of the times
[speaker002:] um-hum yeah more than was apocalypse now
[speaker001:] um-hum well Dudley have we pretty well discussed the subject well I think so I enjoyed talking to you uh-huh bye-bye
[speaker002:] yeah I think so yes it was nice talking to you okay bye-bye

[speaker001:] Well, the topic's about government. Uh, I'm not altogether sure that that's my best topic. Uh,
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] I thought it was kind of a strange topic about corruption in the government and
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] uh, how many people are self serving.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] I mean, you
[speaker001:] Uh-huh [faint].
[speaker002:] I, I think people tend to think that the government is not corrupt [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And that people aren't self serving.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] I mean that's what I would like to think.
[speaker001:] Yeah, I, I, I think that the last, uh, part of that question was particularly interesting, uh, about, uh, uh, uh, can all unethical behavior, or how much unethical behavior can be made illegal
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] uh, because i-, it seems to me that when [breathing], uh, government or public service of any kind degenerates so much that you have to have so many explicit ethical codes
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] uh, parallel to the legal codes that, uh, we're focusing on the wrong thing.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh, yeah.
[speaker001:] Maybe, maybe that's what is happening. Maybe so many things have become public with the media over the past, you know, ten to twenty years
[speaker002:] Right [faint].
[speaker001:] that, uh, it becomes more evident. Perhaps things that we didn't think of before and just concentrated on the lawmaking or the results that would be seen in public works or bills that are passed or, you know, et cetera like that
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and we were just not exposed to the personal lives of these persons.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] And I couldn't help thinking when that last quest-, it was a funny question
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] when that last part of the question came about h-, how many things can we, uh, actually put a legal code on
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] that, uh, [breathing] how much, uh, should it be our, uh, prerogative to see into the private lives of these people.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] You know.
[speaker002:] Yeah, that makes sense.
[speaker001:] Um.
[speaker002:] Because you start prying in people's private lives, you ruin their lives as well as,
[speaker001:] That's right.
[speaker002:] And sometimes, you know, I don't even know how much of a difference it really makes, you know.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] I mean, I guess in some cases, sure we care about what they did in the past
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] but, uh, sometimes, I don't know
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] I think it gets in the way of the better judgment. I mean just because you did something in the past doesn't mean he's not a good enough person to be a politician.
[speaker001:] I, I, I agree with that and, uh, and also that if the results that they're putting out and what they actually seem to be accomplishing by
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] legitimate means is what's, you know, going to the public
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] then, uh, then they'll pay for their private life in their own private conscience.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] That's it.
[speaker001:] And, uh
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] you kn-, when it becomes public, though, it becomes scandalous.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] The, that's, that's the thing that, uh, things that you don't know
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] uh, d-, do, do not worm their way around and influence other people or perhaps lead other people astray.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] People could say, oh, they do it, so, I guess, you know, but, as soon as things do get public
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] uh, there, there
[speaker002:] Um [faint].
[speaker001:] is that terrible concern. So, sometimes I ask myself, what are, uh, people doing that are in the media
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] when somebody, you know, comes up to office, it seems that one of the first thing that's done is to dig up any kind of a thing they can on them
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and get it all over the headlines.
[speaker002:] Oh, yeah [LAUGHTER] I guess it's what sells newspapers, you know.
[speaker001:] It's a very low way of living.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Uh, so, a-, and, and, and as far as, uh, you know, myself having any particular personal, uh, knowledge or insight into politics or politicians, it, I'm not terribly involved in it.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh [faint].
[speaker001:] Just in a very cursory way.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] I vote and I, you know, try to do whatever I can on the little local area, but, I, I, i-, it just is not one of the things that I have, uh, placed, uh, uh, a, a lot of my particular time and effort
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] into, so, I, I always feel very outside
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] this kind of, uh, [lipsmack] this kind of an issue.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] But, uh,
[speaker002:] I am kind of the same way. I just kind of read the paper
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] follow up on peop-,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] I mean, you know, just keep an eye on what's going on
[speaker001:] Yeah, right.
[speaker002:] but I don't really play an active role
[speaker001:] Yeah, uh,
[speaker002:] in any kind of
[speaker001:] Uh, uh-huh.
[speaker002:] politics [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] I'm not, I'm not in there, I'm not one of those, uh, you know, volunteers that's down at headquarters and whatever, uh, although I admire the people that do that and they certainly do get inside information
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and, uh, of course, the better you know a person that might be affiliated with that kind
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] of thing, the more you can trust their, their judgment
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] and their insight.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] But the media insight, as you said, I just kind of read and [lipsmack] kind of be aware
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] and then, uh, I don't like to make a whole lot of, uh, judgment m-, myself
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] unless things are so absolutely out of whack that, uh,

[speaker001:] Uh, so what do you do to exercise?
[speaker002:] Uh, s-, I, uh, weight train, uh, three days on and one day off.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] I, uh, ride bicycles, [breathing], uh, fifteen, twenty miles, I don't know, maybe three times, maybe four times a week. I play basketball, uh, couple times a week. I play softball one night a week. Uh, that's what I do.
[speaker001:] Um.
[speaker002:] What about yourself?
[speaker001:] That's pretty impressive. Uh, I guess I bicycle. Uh, the amount varies as much as a hundred and fifty miles a week.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Uh, I guess a play softball one night a week. And I backpack a lot over the summer.
[speaker002:] Oh, really?
[speaker001:] Yeah, that's, that's about the extent of it. I mean, I don't do any of those things particularly, you know, for exercise. But, uh, I guess the bicycling is the one thing I'll sort of, like, do if I feel like I need to go exercise [breathing]. Uh, but I do it mostly for fun.
[speaker002:] Yeah, uh, what do you ride, uh, like, a bunch of hills or pretty flat?
[speaker001:] It, it, it varies. Uh, out near my house is pretty hilly. Uh, but sometimes I bike to work which is about, uh, a fifteen mile trip each way. And that's mostly flat.
[speaker002:] How long does that take you to get to work?
[speaker001:] Uh, about forty-five, fifty minutes.
[speaker002:] How d-, how does that work, work out with, uh, storing your bike and showering and all that?
[speaker001:] Yeah, it can be a pain. Uh, basically, uh, I work on a campus so I can store my bike in my office and walk across the, uh, campus to the, uh, gym, use the shower there
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] uh, but, it's, it's enough of a pain, that I did it consistently one year, I would commute every day, uh, but it just became such a pain. I mean we're talking, you know, forty-five, fifty minutes for biking,
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] uh, and sometimes longer if you had adverse wind. And then another half an hour, you know to cool down and take a shower and all this kind of stuff. It was a big hunk, hunk of the day [breathing]. Uh, and then of course another hour to get back home. Uh, so I've been doing that less, and, and concentrating more on, you know, light biking when I get home on the evening and then, you know, some more on the weekends.
[speaker002:] Yeah. Do you ride a lot of rallies or a lot of those around there?
[speaker001:] Not so much. Uh, I guess mostly I bike on my own. I've got a touring bike.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Uh, though I haven't gone on any extended trips with it. How about you, what kind of biking do you do?
[speaker002:] Uh, well, actually my wife just got me into it and I did an, did an internship at the Institute for Aerobics Research in Dallas,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] the Cooper Clinic, and I learned all the health benefits of, you know, I was a solid weight trainer,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] and all I did was weights and aerobic exercise and then my wife got me into the aerobic exercise and said you really need to do it, so,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] once I got into this, uh, internship, I learned all the physiological ad-, advan-, advantages to it, so I began a program couple, I don't know probably three or four weeks ago and I did my first bike rally this Saturday. I did, uh, forty, forty miles,
[speaker001:] Um.
[speaker002:] and, uh, that's the longest I've ever ridden so far, I usually, you know, fifteen or twenty.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And it was, it was kind of hilly and it was pretty tough, but, uh, I'm looking at, uh, doing a lot more of it because, you know, my wife is really into it,
[speaker001:] Oh, I see.
[speaker002:] and I, I kind of held her back a little bit this, this weekend. She wanted to go, go, go, but,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] you know, she wanted to stay with me [breathing].
[speaker001:] It's good to have a partner.
[speaker002:] Yeah it really is.
[speaker001:] Are you think of doing any, like, centuries, or...
[speaker002:] Yeah, that would be cool sometime if I could, you know, work up to that.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh. Yeah, I just wondered if you were going to do that mostly or more like, you know, uh, [breathing] uh, touring like from Vermont or, you know, that kind of,
[speaker002:] Oh.
[speaker001:] thing. I mean people seem to get into different aspects. One is more of a distance, and one's more, just, you know, they want to put some equipment on their bike and go for a tour.
[speaker002:] I've never really looked into that. That, you know, that's, my wife would just love that.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And I may do that sometime. There again, I'm just kind of a fledgling into this.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] I've, it's kind of funny. I called this number and I was just reading through a bicycle magazine and going through all the different tours coming up.
[speaker001:] Yeah, yeah.
[speaker002:] I mean, around Texas, you, you got about five or six, if you live around the Dallas area, you got five or six every weekend to choose from.
[speaker001:] Oh, that's nice.
[speaker002:] Because they're really into it.
[speaker001:] Um.
[speaker002:] Bicycling is really big here. I didn't know that, and, you know, until I came down here, and,
[speaker001:] Wow.
[speaker002:] kind of caught the fever.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] Because I lived in Indiana all my life and, you know, you may say see one or two guys on a bicycle that, or above the age of fifteen or something,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] but, other than that it's nothing up there like it is down here.
[speaker001:] Yeah, I'm not sure why that is. I mean, generally in the Midwest it seems to be less, much less. I mean, maybe it's because of the winters.
[speaker002:] Probably.
[speaker001:] Uh, or maybe just because, you know, there's, there's a lot more flat lands, you know, out in the West.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] So it makes biking a better alternative for transportation.
[speaker002:] Yeah. It, there's a lot of bikers around here. It's, it's really neat.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] There are a lot of, a lot of resources, a lot of magazines, and stuff, little TEXAS BICYCLIST, is like a little newspaper that comes out every month.
[speaker001:] Um.
[speaker002:] It's free just go to the bike shock, bi-, bike shop and pick it up, and it's got all the rides coming up, so I guess I'm going to be busy about every Saturday this summer,
[speaker001:] Oh, that's terrific.
[speaker002:] going to a different ride. Yeah, see a little bit of Texas I've never seen before.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] So, uh, how long have you been biking?
[speaker001:] Oh, I guess as an adult for just about the past, uh, three years or so [breathing]. Uh, you know, I guess last time I did it before that was college, which was about ten years ago.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] And, uh, yeah, I guess I just never really thought about it much for a while, uh, until I suddenly discovered all my friends were basically biking a lot. And so I thought I'd try it, too.
[speaker002:] Have you ever had a, uh, it's kind of slightly off the subject, but you ever had a, uh, a blood workup done recently or since you've been biking,
[speaker001:] No, I haven't, no.
[speaker002:] to see if it, because it really, from what I understand, it really improves your, uh, cholesterol
[speaker001:] Um.
[speaker002:] and, you know, it, uh, [breathing] it kind of knocks down two of the big risk categories for coronary artery disease which is, uh, uh, low cardiovascular fitness, and also, uh, you know, the cholesterol.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] It gives you increased H D Ls and decreases your L D Ls.
[speaker001:] Oh, that's great.
[speaker002:] Yeah, so...
[speaker001:] Yeah, I've, I've definitely noticed it's had a good effect on my pulse rate, my resting pulse.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] You know, it gets it down to about forty.
[speaker002:] Really?
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] That's good.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] You say you ride about a hundred, hundred fifty miles a week?
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] Man. That's, that's hard-core.
[speaker001:] On average, yeah.
[speaker002:] When do you get to begin with the winters and all that? What time of the year do you usually embark on your, do you ride inside if you can't ride outside?
[speaker001:] No, I'm not that hard-core. I mean there are some people, in fact a lot of people will ride outside in the snow. They've got a, uh, mountain bike,
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] you know, with the big knobby tires.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] And, I don't do that. I basically, I, I pretty much lay off for the winter. Uh, I was thinking of getting rollers for the last winter, you know, because it will help your balance when you're indoor training.
[speaker002:] Um.
[speaker001:] Uh, but I just, you know, more or less stocked, like an exercise bike and that kind of thing. [breathing], uh, but, yeah, I mean winters are kind of a problem so, I'm more or less out of shape now that I've been biking, I guess, this year for just a couple of weeks.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Uh, but, you know, up here [LAUGHTER], it's only stopped snowing since then.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Uh, [lipsmack], but, yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's pretty good. It's, uh, the main, the main thing, I guess, for me is just to enjoy it because once it starts seeming like, you know, exercise and a chore [LAUGHTER], I'll lay off it more.
[speaker002:] Right. So you, uh, change up your routes a lot, and keep a...
[speaker001:] Oh, yeah, yeah. I try to go someplace pretty different, you know, every week. I rotate around, uh, about four different routes, uh, from my house or I'll sometimes come in the school. It's nice coming, it's, it's nice riding to school because it's all along a canal path [breathing], uh, because it's just, it's along the Erie Canal up here.
[speaker002:] So, what school is it?
[speaker001:] Uh, University of Rochester.
[speaker002:] Oh, okay. Yeah.
[speaker001:] So it's fairly picturesque.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] And, uh, so it's, it's, it's a good ride as long as you're not doing it every day, it's a good ride [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Yeah. That's true. Sounds neat.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] It's kind of, I was wondering if I was going to talk with someone that never has exercised before and doesn't want to and everything else, but got a guy that rides a hundred and fifty miles a week. That's, uh, motivating.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] That's really good. Well
[speaker001:] Oh, it was good talking to you.
[speaker002:] good talking to you and keep up the good work.
[speaker001:] Okay, you, too.
[speaker002:] All right. Take care.
[speaker001:] Bye.
[speaker002:] Bye.

[speaker001:] but a lot of women are knowledge as knowledge about football as I am can I guess your favorite team if you had one might be the Steelers well I can understand that I you know I kind of like the Cowboys too
[speaker002:] yes uh-huh do you
[speaker001:] they've had some great games in the past
[speaker002:] uh-huh I I always enjoy watching this Dallas the Dallas and Pittsburgh together you know
[speaker001:] uh-huh me too it wasn't nearly as much fun when Bradshaw was playing for you guys I'll tell you he lives in the Dallas area now as a matter of fact
[speaker002:] does he really
[speaker001:] well actually it's probably closer to Fort Worth but it's it's in the same area he bought uh bought a big horse farm out in a little town called Roanoke Texas
[speaker002:] uh-huh uh-huh
[speaker001:] but he pops up on the Dallas scene quite often as a matter of fact there was some talk about trying to get him involved with the team management in some sort of a coaching job
[speaker002:] oh wow I wonder if he'd ever do that
[speaker001:] I don't know he'd be good at it he's such a motivator he primarily you know with the quarterbacks that would be his specialty I wished I wished they could work something I really like him I really do
[speaker002:] yes uh-huh uh-huh well what about the Houston Oilers do you like them
[speaker001:] yeah okay I'd love to see Dallas and Houston play in a Super Bowl that would be really great
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] that may not ever happen I don't know uh Houston has had some wonderful talent you know down through the years and in the earlier years they really had some super teams
[speaker002:] uh-huh and Warren Moon is is proving himself quite well right now
[speaker001:] that's right he certainly is he's very good
[speaker002:] uh-huh he's one of the few uh black quarterbacks that there are
[speaker001:] he's very good that's right Randall Cunningham was with Philadelphia I guess last year but he's no longer with the team so you're right there are very few black quarterbacks or at least that are starting anyway how do you think the Steelers are going to do this year you have any idea
[speaker002:] uh-huh I don't know I hope they they do better they they during the past couple of years they've been doing a little bit better
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] but uh I think they still have a little I think they're still such a a young team I think they still have a little bit to go before they reach the potential that it did when ever Bradshaw was playing
[speaker001:] yeah oh yeah that was just such super team
[speaker002:] or if they even reach that potential again you know they may never reach that again
[speaker001:] yeah well that's a tough it would be tough to do it really would they have such a super team for years
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] that won what four Super Bowls
[speaker002:] yeah four in a row
[speaker001:] four in a row I don't know if that could ever be duplicated again or not
[speaker002:] oh I don't know shooting for one for the thumb now is what they were saying but basically everyone that was on the team then is gone now so
[speaker001:] yeah that's right and that's right that's right
[speaker002:] I think Mike Webster was left but then he he just left uh
[speaker001:] uh-huh yeah he may have been the last of the old guard I don't know
[speaker002:] yeah I think he is I think he was
[speaker001:] yeah they had such a super team
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] have you been following the big draft that occurred yesterday
[speaker002:] no I didn't
[speaker001:] I see
[speaker002:] huh-uh
[speaker001:] there's quite a bit of activity now of course they had so many you know nice uh choices because their record was so lousy the last few years they picked up you know quiet a few
[speaker002:] uh
[speaker001:] of the of course you never know the guys they pick you know may may never play a game you just never know it's it's a gamble it really is they may get hurt or not be able to participate at that level if you know
[speaker002:] yeah uh-huh well who would you say is your favorite player or has ever been your favorite player
[speaker001:] ever been
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] probably an old guy that played probably before you were born his name was Sam Huff he used to play for the New York Giants
[speaker002:] oh
[speaker001:] that was one of the toughest guys that I've ever seen in my life as far as you know dedication he just went all out every single play of course there have been some other great ones too Dick Butkis and Bradshaw you know there's been so many
[speaker002:] really uh-huh yeah yeah
[speaker001:] but if I had to pick one I would probably pick Sam Huff as a matter of fact
[speaker002:] oh you know that's really funny um well I I come from a large family and there there's quite a few boys so that's kind of how I got in with the football either watch that or watch nothing and um
[speaker001:] uh-huh that's right
[speaker002:] at one time I could name all the players on the Steelers you know and but even when Bradshaw was playing I I don't know I I didn't particularly care for him I thought he was kind of cocky or something uh-huh
[speaker001:] uh-huh he is he is of course there a quarterback has a big ego
[speaker002:] yes uh-huh
[speaker001:] they really do they have to have they can't survive
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] they always think they can win you know which is the way it should be and boy he never gave up I'll tell you
[speaker002:] uh-huh yeah him and Franco Harris I really didn't care for the either two of them
[speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh
[speaker002:] I mean they were good but I you know you couldn't deny that but I didn't I thought you know well I just didn't really care for either one of them uh today my favorites out of those guys were probably um
[speaker001:] oh yeah uh-huh
[speaker002:] Lambert Ham and uh Stallworth and Swan
[speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh uh-huh absolutely I can't disagree with that they were super players they really were they really
[speaker002:] yeah uh-huh I I I like not just with the Pittsburgh I like watching on Saturday afternoons when they'll have like the plays or the the best plays from you know from the week or something
[speaker001:] uh-huh yeah highlights yeah uh-huh
[speaker002:] yeah I love watching that then I like watching their bloopers too you know
[speaker001:] uh-huh yeah yeah that's kind of funny too as a matter of fact some of them a a bit embarrassing yeah well they make mistakes too I guess
[speaker002:] yeah uh-huh it's funny that more people don't get hurt
[speaker001:] absolutely absolutely
[speaker002:] you know especially I would say the receivers when they're in the air and they get tackled
[speaker001:] uh-huh go ahead they take such a beating
[speaker002:] oh yeah it's funny some of their necks don't get broken
[speaker001:] absolutely I don't know how they do it it's it must just take a hundred percent concentration I guess because they know they're going to get hit it's just a matter of how hard you know or where
[speaker002:] yeah an they have to be in ideal physical shape basically
[speaker001:] oh absolutely they look like sometimes they're just broken in two like a match stem gosh what a beating they really do take a beating they really do
[speaker002:] yeah well what did you think of um a couple years ago for the Bears the refrigerator
[speaker001:] I think he was just probably a passing phenomena I think I don't know I I'm knowing what you know of course Mike Ditka was in Dallas for years and years as coach is knowing his or you know knowing of his temperament I'm just surprised he ever you know kept the guy around I really am he's such a he's about a half hot head anyway such a temper
[speaker002:] oh you know and to me he does um oh he's just so big and fat he doesn't even look like he's in shape he's just so big no one can move him
[speaker001:] uh-huh that's right yeah absolutely there's just so much mass there I guess they just can't I don't know you know I probably the guy is you know probably physically strong I you know obviously not very fast but I guess it's just
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] like you say a mass that nobody can seem to to get out of the way as far as him scoring touch downs you know I think that was kind of weird I don't know Dallas has a guy uh his name is Nate Newton now he has a real weight problem too he fights it every single year but he manages to still keep playing but
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] he has a terrible weight problem
[speaker002:] wow
[speaker001:] they watch the coaches watch him all year long they they weigh him several times a year just to make sure he's not you know completely out of control
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] but I guess most every team has some has someone like that I don't know
[speaker002:] oh yeah there's there are some really big guys playing in football
[speaker001:] absolutely they get bigger and bigger it seems every year I guess you have to to
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] know to stay in the game I guess yeah
[speaker002:] yeah you would uh-huh um now who would you say that you have a favorite I mean other than Dallas would you say that you have uh a favorite quarterback I mean the quarterback's seem to get most of the the attention you know
[speaker001:] oh yeah sure well you'd have to uh or I would have to say you know someone like Montana I guess who's done so well for so many years
[speaker002:] yeah I really I I enjoy watching him play
[speaker001:] yeah his age is about to catch up with him though he's no Spring chicken anymore and like you say Warren Moon's an excellent Warren Moon's an excellent but he's very exciting to watch uh-huh sure uh-huh absolutely
[speaker002:] no but he's still performing yes he is I I I enjoy watching him also what about uh Marino
[speaker001:] uh I'm obviously he's a very good quarterback I'd I never was you know too a whole lot of a big fan you know
[speaker002:] I think he'll get better as he gets older
[speaker001:] yeah he may uh-huh
[speaker002:] because he he well was he was the youngest quarterback there was wasn't he
[speaker001:] yes he was I believe that's right at one point in time yeah but he's a very young fellow yeah
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] of course a quarterback can look so good if he's got a lot if he's got a good supporting cast you know if not he gets beat to death like poor old Troy Aikman has the last couple of years anyway you know well Dallas did better last year hopefully they'll do better this year
[speaker002:] that's true that's true uh probably around twelve uh-huh yeah um I didn't I don't know I I just think you know Marino will get better and uh his team's not as good as what it was when he went to the Super Bowl you know so
[speaker001:] uh-huh that's right that's right yeah Miami's had some down years too
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] but they all do I guess it's it's cyclical I guess as the players get older get slower
[speaker002:] uh-huh yeah that's true yeah and with age comes you know the the I'm sure arthritis sets in with them you know right yeah
[speaker001:] get slower  yeah oh yeah oh yes very much so hip injuries and things like that yeah yeah that that forces a lot of the guys to get out of the game
[speaker002:] uh-huh and they're so young but they're retired you know and their so young still
[speaker001:] that's right uh-huh yeah I read some time well not too long ago that the average uh professional career only lasts seven years so that's when you think about it that's really not a very long time of course
[speaker002:] oh oh yeah but then you think about how many have been in there longer than that
[speaker001:] yeah but if the average is seven years that means a lot of guys don't make it seven years you know
[speaker002:] yeah a lot of them would have to get out like in just a couple
[speaker001:] that's right yeah that's right yeah
[speaker002:] holy smokes I didn't that doesn't seem like very long
[speaker001:] that's that's a pretty short career on average
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] of course they play their you know cards right and do some good investments they'll you know they'll do all right but a lot of them don't unfortunately
[speaker002:] uh-huh yeah um what do you think of the uh LA Raiders used to the the Oakland
[speaker001:] yeah they they're always branded you know as a bunch of outlaws and if their if their you know arrest record won't let able won't let them play anywhere else they seem to go to they seem to go to the Raiders but that just may be you know perceived
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] you know perception I don't know Al Davis is he's a kind of strange character strange strange looking guy apparently he's kind of a wild guy I don't really know for sure they've had some excellent teams though obviously I'm not sure they've yet decided where they want to play they keeping talk about you know going
[speaker002:] yes they have uh-huh

[speaker001:] Where do you get most of your news?
[speaker002:] I watch the MACNEIL LEHRER news hour, and I subscribe to the paper on the weekends.
[speaker001:] Where, where are you?
[speaker002:] I'm in Dallas.
[speaker001:] Oh, yeah.
[speaker002:] Are you in Dallas also?
[speaker001:] No, I'm in San Antonio.
[speaker002:] Oh, really, okay.
[speaker001:] I get my news from a combination of sources. I take the paper every day
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and I read it on the way in to work on the, in a carpool.
[speaker002:] Oh, really.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh. And, uh, and I watch the, uh, actually I watch the morning news before I leave for work. And then, you know, usually over lunch, there'll be a big topic of conversation on something
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] from the news.
[speaker002:] I normally find that uh, I-, I'm probably the most, um, news hungry of my friends, so I don't, we don't normally talk about the news at lunch. I, I find that I have to only subscribe to the paper on the weekend, simply because I used to get it during the week
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] but, um, I would always end up arriving at work late, because I would always end up skimming the headlines, spending too much time,
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] reading it in the morning.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] So I have to cut myself down to the weekend, plus after work. Um, the MACNEIL LEHRER news hour is on public television
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] and I enjoy that quite a bit.
[speaker001:] Yeah. Um, one of the women that I work with, her husband is Iranian.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] So here lately with all the Middle Eastern news we've had some very interesting conversations over lunch.
[speaker002:] I will admit I work with, uh, someone who's Iranian, and he definitely has a very different slant on the news.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] He's very, very skeptical of the news media, and I will admit I'm reasonably skeptical also. But he's, I don't know, uh, he's mu-, much, much more so. It's sort of interesting though, because he does bring a, a much, um, different perspective with all the Gulf goings on, um. He was always speaking in terms of, you know, American imperialism reasserting itself. Um, I suppose it's a different attitude that we normally don't hear in the country.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh [pause]. Well I, I, uh, I like the print news
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] much better than the television news because television news tends to sensationalize.
[speaker002:] True, um, the,
[speaker001:] I understand that the MacNeil Lehrer probably doesn't.
[speaker002:] They, um, [barking] tend to spend quite a bit of time on one story.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] They will have maybe two or three main stories and just spend a very large amount of time. Sort of like the, uh, what is that, A B C's NIGHTLINE.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Well, I guess they only normally stick with just the one, um, story. But they, they can do a much better job since they don't have to chop it into little two minute stories.
[speaker001:] They don't report on every murder and shooting that happened in, in every little town.
[speaker002:] No, no. It's very much national interest news.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] A lot of times they end up, um, with these panels of experts and they go back and forth, where everyone's giving some opinions and sometimes that, I don't know the value of that, because I saw plenty of jokes and, and, um, oh, editorial cartoons about all the retired generals,
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] making a living [LAUGHTER] during the, the Gulf War.
[speaker001:] I've been getting a kick out of those lately.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Although, um [pause]. I-, I'm only twenty-five, so I've never actually been through a period of war
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and I don't know anyone in the military and I don't have a lot of background knowledge in, uh, military strategy and, and weaponry, and, and all that kind of stuff. And I thought the generals were very interesting. Now when they started to speculate, I, I saw that for what is was,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and thought all of these guys don't know what's going on. But I thought the-, the-, they were interesting, and, and they shed some light on what was going on for me.
[speaker002:] I will admit it's interesting. I-, I-, I'm twenty-six. So I don't have any more experience in that than you. Um, it, it, it was very interesting that it seemed like some of the commentators had their axe to grind, you know, there were some that were screaming for air power, there were some that were saying the air power wasn't going to do it.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And they seemed to mold the events to their view of the world, which I suppose just about everyone does, but these guys had a, a, uh, national soap box to stand on and, and express this view.
[speaker001:] You know, one of the best television news shows that I saw during the war was a show on a Saturday morning on A B C, and it was for children
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and it was hosted by Peter Jennings, and it was so interesting because they were relating the war to these children in their studio, and they also had children calling in live from all over the country and asking questions. And they, they had all their correspondents in the different areas, in Saudi Arabia, and Israel, and, and all. They had them all, uh, on, I don't know what you'd call it other than on line. They had them all on hold
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and if a child asked a question that the person in Jerusalem could best answer, they would cut to that person, and that person would answer the question. It was just very informative and interesting, and, uh, I was real impressed at how A B C handled, uh, translating,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] the war for children.
[speaker002:] Yeah, I didn't see anything like that, although I did, uh, I guess one thing that I found sort of interesting, this is getting a little off the topic, but there was a, a, a big push with the local T V stations to have little hot lines with counselors
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] to, to help parents learn how to talk about their war with their children. I thought that was a really unusual thing.
[speaker001:] And our local H E B stores here, I don't know if it's H E B statewide or whatever, but they have videos that, uh, I don't know if they still have them, but they were free rental,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] videos, that had something to do with the war.
[speaker002:] [Pause] Ju-,
[speaker001:] Uh, it was,
[speaker002:] It-, with the children's aspect?
[speaker001:] Right. It was something for children, that they, they had several advertisements on television pushing parents going and, uh, getting the video and watching it with their children and discussing it
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and that kind of thing.
[speaker002:] I suppose that is a valuable service. Again not having, uh, lived through another war, I don't know if that's a common thing that people thought of, or if that was
[speaker001:] Well
[speaker002:] a new concern with people.
[speaker001:] back during the Viet Nam conflict that no one will, will have the guts enough to call a real war
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] uh, the, that type of technology just wasn't at people's disposal.
[speaker002:] That's true. That's true.
[speaker001:] So I don't think there's ever been a war that's been so thoroughly covered by the news.
[speaker002:] And [blank spot in the tape] probably more importantly, one that lasted short enough that, that people's interest didn't flag too badly.
[speaker001:] Yeah. I tell you what, the first three days, I was glued to the television.
[speaker002:] I will admit the same thing. And I,
[speaker001:] And I,
[speaker002:] would come home and flip on MacNeil Lehrer and they would run these extended two, three hour versions of the program
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] and I, I was just, I was horrified and fascinated [LAUGHTER] by what I was seeing.
[speaker001:] I tell you what. The uh, the war start-, [blank spot in tape] let's see, was it a Wednesday or Thursday? Must have been Thursday, uh, and Friday night I was, I stayed up until two o'clock in the morning, sitting, right dead center in front of my television just watching practically with my mouth hanging open.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Because I was watching C N N, and they would, they would switch back to one of their Israel bureaus, and the people would be standing there in gas masks, and you'd be hearing the sirens, and it was just, I was amazed.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh. I, I didn't have that experience. I, I don't have cable
[speaker001:] Oh.
[speaker002:] so I, I'm pretty much limited to P B S, which I thought, I thought they did a very good job.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Um, I've got one question for you. I [pause] you say you take the newspaper.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Um, I, I found the newspaper situation in Dallas very interesting. We've got the one fairly, well, relatively weaker paper, the TIMES HERALD, and then the MORNING NEWS, which has a very strong subscription.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Does San Antonio ha-, you said San Antonio, right?
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Do you have just one paper, or do you have several?
[speaker001:] No. There are two, and they're pretty close. Uh, the one that I picked is more similar in format to the newspaper, I grew up near Houston
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and there are two major newspapers there that run pretty much neck and neck, and the one I picked here had the same format as the one that my parents took as I was growing up. I mean, the same type of typeface on the headline and that kind of stuff.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] It's piddly stuff to pick a newspaper over,
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] and I enjoy, the comics are better in this newspaper.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] This newspaper has the far side and the comics that I enjoy and the other one has some weird ones that I've never heard of. So,
[speaker002:] I, I actually take both newspapers on the weekends.
[speaker001:] Do you?
[speaker002:] I figure I'm only taking on the weekend, and I can afford that.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] I, I find the news reporting in the MORNING NEWS to be better, but I sort of have a liberal political slant, and the MORNING NEWS just has an incredibly conservative editorial, um, outlook.
[speaker001:] And my,
[speaker002:] I get the TIMES HERALD just to balance that out a little bit.
[speaker001:] My fiancee takes probably six Sunday papers. He takes both San Antonio papers, an Austin paper, both Houston papers, I guess he takes seven, the San Marcos paper and the New Braunsfel paper, but he's a football coach at Southwest Texas State University, so he's getting all the sports sections.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] And, so, you know, he has these stacks of Sunday newspapers that go unread...

[speaker001:] Well, uh, ho-, how do you view this whole subject?
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Are you, uh, one who feels like you have, have benefited from the change in, in roles in women? Or, or what do you think?
[speaker002:] Oh, yeah I, yeah, I think so.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Yeah, there's been a lot of changes. I think there's still a lot to be made, though.
[speaker001:] Yes, [LAUGHTER] oh, yes, I think so.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Are you, uh, are you someone who works outside your home, or have you,
[speaker002:] Yeah, yeah I work for T I.
[speaker001:] Oh, yes,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] well, uh, have there been significant changes, uh, do you think in the employment place, ex-, especially, [NOISE] uh, say at T I.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Have, has anything in particular changed that you have noticed?
[speaker002:] Uh,
[speaker001:] During your time there.
[speaker002:] Uh, I guess there's more women in, uh, what would be classified as a man's job [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Yeah, uh-huh. What, what kind of work do you do?
[speaker002:] I am a drafter.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] I am in a man's job [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] But we have got more women in it now.
[speaker001:] Yes, yes.
[speaker002:] There's a lot of us in it.
[speaker001:] Yes, uh,
[speaker002:] So.
[speaker001:] yes in years past, I know, in fact, even, even the word drafter has changed,
[speaker002:] Uh.
[speaker001:] because, it used to be they were draftsman [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Uh-huh, we have some engineers that still, on their, uh, the drawings that they mark up for us they put draftsman.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] And I want to scratch it out and [LAUGHTER] put drafter [LAUGHTER]. But I thought, well I am,
[speaker001:] Maybe not, huh.
[speaker002:] not going to do that [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Well, uh, I, when I was in college, I graduated from college with my bachelor's degree in nineteen sixty-four.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] And I was a math major, which was a real rarity,
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] among women at that time.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] So, I was in a lot of classes where, uh, there, I was either the only girl or, you know, one of just a very,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] few women in the class.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] So, that was a change and, uh, even, uh, I did not, uh, use my math, uh, in my work, I, I became a technical writer.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] But, uh, even so, there were very, very few women in technical writing.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] But, that has changed a lot.
[speaker002:] Oh, yeah.
[speaker001:] In recent years it has just really, really changed a lot.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh, uh-huh.
[speaker001:] And, and I think that, uh, you know, the one thing that I have seen is that more and more women are getting into management,
[speaker002:] [Throat clearing].
[speaker001:] but I think they have got a long way to go [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Oh, definitely, definitely.
[speaker001:] There was something on T V the other day that said that fewer than one or two percent of the heads of, uh, chairmen of the board, chair-, chair persons, uh, if you sa-, if you will,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] of the board are women in this country.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] And I thought that, you know, that's pretty si-, a pretty significantly small number.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] So, there are some, some strides to be made there.
[speaker002:] Yeah, yeah.
[speaker001:] But, uh, I do not know, I, I think we have come a long way,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] actually,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] when I think about, you know, when things were like even, when I, you know, just when I was in high school,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and how it is now for girls.
[speaker002:] Yeah,
[speaker001:] And, uh,
[speaker002:] yeah. Do you,
[speaker001:] [Inhaling] uh, I guess my, I, uh, the one, my one bad thing is that I am, that I wish my mother had had some of those opportunities, because, I think she would have really, she rea-, would have succeeded in a lot of ways,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] that men, that women were not able to succeed,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] in her,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] generation.
[speaker002:] Exactly.
[speaker001:] So, anyway. Do you have children?
[speaker002:] No, huh-uh.
[speaker001:] I was going to say do you have daughters. That's always a good question.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] Do you?
[speaker001:] Yes. In fact, I have a daughter who is in a, a, who just graduated in civil engineering, from college.
[speaker002:] Oh, wonderful.
[speaker001:] So, she is pretty much, although there were some other women in her class,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] she was, you know, uh, one of the minorities,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh, uh-huh.
[speaker001:] uh, females in the class.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] So, she definitely entering into, uh, a male profession.
[speaker002:] Oh, yeah.
[speaker001:] But, uh,
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] But, you know, for instance there are, there is the organization women, the Society of Women Engineers,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] so, that is recognized,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] as, uh, you know, a place where women should be.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh, uh-huh.
[speaker001:] But, uh, [inhaling] I do not know, I, you see it in, uh, also in, uh, like in church, uh, where more and more women are becoming ministers.
[speaker002:] Oh, yeah.
[speaker001:] In, uh, you know, in protestant congregations and, uh, it will be interesting to see if, if Roman Catholicism ever, uh, recognizes women in,
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] in the role of priest. I do-, I do not know if you are Roman Catholic or,
[speaker002:] No, huh-uh.
[speaker001:] you know, what you know about that.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] I am not either, but, uh, that is one area where it, [NOISE] that I can see might change, but I really doubt will change [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Yeah, yeah.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Not for a long time anyway.
[speaker001:] No, probably not. Huh-uh.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] So, uh, uh, how about, what in particular would you think that, uh, women still, other than the work place, where women still are being, uh, oh, you know, found wanting, you know, or not re-, as highly regarded as men would be. Uh, I was just trying to think. Oh, I know something.
[speaker002:] [Throat clearing] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Maybe you could te-, what do you think that, what do you think, tell me what you think about this.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] [Inhaling] The, uh, the, uh, the role of women in combat roles during the war?
[speaker002:] Oh, oh.
[speaker001:] Because, I know that there, now there, they want the armed forces to recognize that women can serve in combat roles.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh, uh-huh.
[speaker001:] And the only, uh, branch in the armed fo-, services that seems willing to do that is the Air Force. And,
[speaker002:] Huh.
[speaker001:] uh, I spoke because women were filing, flying missions into, you know, for whatever reason, into, uh, in the Persian Gulf war.
[speaker002:] Yeah, yeah.
[speaker001:] And so. But I know some of the other services do not think that women are capable of doing the job.
[speaker002:] [Noise].
[speaker001:] It was real interesting, they were. I was listening to some of the comments on ra-, television the other day,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] uh, about it, and, [inhaling] uh, one of, one of the men who was a, I do not know if he was a general or, you know, what his rank was, very high.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] He said, it's just a personal thing with me. I mean, I can not be real, you know I can not tell you why I feel this way, but I just would rather have, uh, a man doing some of these jobs than a woman. I thought, well, at least he was honest [LAUGHTER]. But, that does not sit very well with a lot of folks, I am sure [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] There's some men out there that are more feminine than most women [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Yeah, right [LAUGHTER]. You know, Neil, well Neil as far as I am concerned, {C and I could be wrong about this, } but the only one area where a woman could not do it is if she just physically did not have the strength,
[speaker002:] Yeah, yeah,
[speaker001:] to do something.
[speaker002:] yeah.
[speaker001:] Uh, because, I would think, I think, you know, mentally, uh, and emotionally, I think women can handle a job and,
[speaker002:] Oh, I do too.
[speaker001:] every bit as well. So
[speaker002:] Uh-huh, uh-huh.
[speaker001:] anyway it's still [several words spoken while B is talking],
[speaker002:] And, you know, if she wanted to go to combat,
[speaker001:] Sure.
[speaker002:] I do not see that they should stop her. I personally would not want to go but [LAUGHTER],
[speaker001:] No, I would not either. No, I [LAUGHTER] agree but I am sure that there are women who would, would relish that,
[speaker002:] Oh, yeah, yeah.
[speaker001:] you know, kind of job. So,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Uh, I guess that should be taken into consideration,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh,
[speaker001:] as well.
[speaker002:] uh-huh.
[speaker001:] So, well, this is an interesting topic,
[speaker002:] [Noise].
[speaker001:] um, I have, you know, I have, having a daughter who has gone into this, into engineering,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] I sort of watched progress to see if she did anything differently than I did [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Uh-huh [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] She's a lot more forthright about her opinions and,
[speaker002:] Good.
[speaker001:] a little more assertive, than I think I was [LAUGHTER]. So, that's, that's progress, I guess [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Yeah [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] [Inhaling] Well, I have enjoyed talking with you Lisa, and,
[speaker002:] Well, same here.
[speaker001:] Uh, have you talked with a lot of people in this project or,
[speaker002:] [Inhaling] Well, I am not a home, at home a lot.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] I am at work right now.
[speaker001:] Oh, yeah.
[speaker002:] I put my work number, but, at home, uh, the recorder gets my calls.
[speaker001:] Oh, yeah.
[speaker002:] Usually, I am not there,
[speaker001:] Right,
[speaker002:] but I probably talked to seven or eight people.
[speaker001:] Yeah, well,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] that's great, that's good.
[speaker002:] I personally have not made any calls yet, myself, I,
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] just, it never crosses my mind.
[speaker001:] Yeah. Well,
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] But I enjoy receiving them.
[speaker001:] Yeah, well,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh, uh-huh.
[speaker001:] that's good, that's good, because, uh, I,
[speaker002:] [Throat clearing].
[speaker001:] I guess I placed all but one or two of my calls.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh, uh-huh.
[speaker001:] And, uh, only because I going to make some money, see we, our choir is doing this as a money ma-, raising project.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] We, we got the connection through a T I, [NOISE] uh, church member.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] And, {F uh, uh, so } we are doing it to raise money for, uh, a large project at church,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and, {F uh, so } I feel like this is one way I can contribute that's
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] not too painful [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] That's wonderful.
[speaker001:] Financially painful, anyway.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] It's just real nice that way so, uh, I thought, well I will just get on the stick and do it.
[speaker002:] Yeah, that's great.
[speaker001:] Well, I will say good-bye to you,
[speaker002:] Okay.
[speaker001:] but I have enjoyed the conversation.
[speaker002:] Well, thanks for calling.
[speaker001:] Thank you.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Bye-bye.
[speaker002:] Bye-bye.

[speaker001:] okay okay where have you all been on vacation recently
[speaker002:] recently my most recent trip was last year and that was Detroit
[speaker001:] Detroit is that a nice vacation spot
[speaker002:] yeah well it wasn't really it was um uh to see an old relative
[speaker001:] right okay
[speaker002:] and it was uh just to uh have some fellowship with her
[speaker001:] right so you probably wouldn't recommend that as tourist big tourist spot
[speaker002:] no The only thing that I I visited that you know is quite a tourist spot is Cancun Mexico
[speaker001:] ooh that would be nice
[speaker002:] and that was real nice uh
[speaker001:] did you scuba dive there
[speaker002:] uh no we just kind of walked the beaches and looked at all the beautiful scenery there
[speaker001:] ooh that would be nice
[speaker002:] yeah and just kind of relaxed and unwound a little bit from our daily routine
[speaker001:] oh that would be enjoyable right yeah that's a nice break I haven't been on vacation in a while either um usually when we go we go to Colorado to Estes Park area which is up kind of near Denver
[speaker002:] huh uh-huh yes
[speaker001:] and uh stay in the mountains up there do a little hiking and resting get away from the Texas heat that kind of thing
[speaker002:] oh that's always refreshing to get away from
[speaker001:] so it's a lot of fun I worked up there last summer so I guess it was kind of like a vacation the whole summer long
[speaker002:] oh well that's nice yeah
[speaker001:] worked at a camp there and so I got to spend a lot of time up in the mountains so that's probably my favorite place when I have to go somewhere on a vacation
[speaker002:] well my uh my middle daughter and her husband have just taken up a new activity and that's canoeing
[speaker001:] oh
[speaker002:] and uh they've been to the Guadalupe River and they also uh uh have been to uh I guess Colorado and they've really enjoyed it it's a whole new
[speaker001:] that's nice we um we canoed up in Arkansas at the Buffalo River
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] and that's the best place that I've ever canoed it was really
[speaker002:] huh
[speaker001:] really pretty I was a little kid then and we to have uh we stayed at some park and they had a little uh mountain man who came down the river every night and he would give a little talk about  mountain things you know I think he wasn't a real mountain man but we were pretty convinced he was a full hermit who lived up in
[speaker002:] sure uh-huh
[speaker001:] the woods that he'd come in his little log boat down the river and we would have to we'd and he'd make sassafras tea out of sassafras roots that he'd found and
[speaker002:] oh that's neat
[speaker001:] that's that's a good family place to go and then the river was really nice because it wasn't too
[speaker002:] sure
[speaker001:] frightening but it wasn't
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] you know too easy either so it was like
[speaker002:] well you learn a lot of um skills too and I think you're more receptive when you're younger than when you're older to learn new skills and I think they really it really penetrates penetrates in your memory you know what to do because you really have a great interest in it
[speaker001:] that's true um-hum
[speaker002:] because it's something you weren't forced to do
[speaker001:] right
[speaker002:] so you have kind of a relaxed mode of learning and you're more receptive
[speaker001:] yeah well that's good well we um let's see the only other place I've ever vacationed we'd you know go on camping trips up to Texoma and things like that
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] and then I went to England
[speaker002:] oh that's exciting
[speaker001:] a few years ago I was a student there and spent um a semester studying abroad in London
[speaker002:] uh-huh uh-huh
[speaker001:] and that was a great time because it's so that's such a neat place and it's there's not a language barrier so you don't I mean there there's a little bit because there's some of those English words that you just don't exactly know what they mean and a lot of people have trouble wrestling with their accents but it's it was really fun I I I really enjoyed that I'm probably going back there to work for a year
[speaker002:] uh-huh well I had a friend that uh visited England not well I think it's been probably two years now but that's her next goal and she can do it is go back to England because she really has a great desire to do that because the love that she um has for it now after visiting it
[speaker001:] it it's really nice I would I would spend all my time in London or most of my time and that's it was really different being in a big city because I don't
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] get much into urban you know really urban areas a lot
[speaker002:] uh-huh uh-huh
[speaker001:] and it was it's really it's sort of a weird little anonymous feeling where no one knows who you are and you can spend a whole day without talking to anyone which I thought I would just hate but it ended up being kind of nice because you're not accountable to anyone
[speaker002:] uh-huh uh-huh
[speaker001:] you could just kind of
[speaker002:] do your own thing
[speaker001:] kind of walk around and observe I did a lot of just going out by myself and riding on the subway and watching watching people
[speaker002:] yeah uh-huh
[speaker001:] and I had a great time doing that it was really interesting
[speaker002:] that's wonderful there's a lot out there to see I'll say
[speaker001:] yeah I know I keep wanting to get up to I haven't I haven't been anywhere else outside the United States I haven't been to Mexico or Canada or
[speaker002:] well I lived across the street almost from Canada
[speaker001:] oh
[speaker002:] so that was that that's a nice place Canada is very nice
[speaker001:] yeah that would be nice I had a friend from there then I I'd love to go somewhere in Asia but I'd have to have a
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] tour guide with me to
[speaker002:] oh yes absolutely
[speaker001:] help with all the language and all that
[speaker002:] sure somebody that knows their way around
[speaker001:] so yeah that's why that's why England was nice even we traveled in Europe for about a week and that was even nice because there wasn't uh the most the places we went we went to Germany and Switzerland and
[speaker002:] well you've been quite a few places there
[speaker001:] well I yeah we have we just kind of
[speaker002:] once you think about it huh
[speaker001:] we did we whirlwinded through Europe it was
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] just insane twelve days where we'd just stop like a city a day and you slept on the train at night
[speaker002:] oh that's great
[speaker001:] but there wasn't a it was strange it was kind of sad there wasn't ever a language problem there because everyone in Germany knew English and everyone in Switzerland knew English
[speaker002:] uh-huh that's great
[speaker001:] so we were kind of pitiful we found one restaurant we were in and got seated and then no on e knew English in there and we were just
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] finally had to break out the phrase book and start looking up things but it was uh
[speaker002:] what did you wind up with
[speaker001:] oh I had fondue that was easy to say
[speaker002:] oh okay
[speaker001:] tried to get fondue and white wine and that was
[speaker002:] uh uh-huh
[speaker001:] we were able to have that pretty pretty effortlessly there were some people at the next table who spoke English so we
[speaker002:] they kind of guided you
[speaker001:] elicited their aid for a while and they were
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] very helpful so
[speaker002:] well good
[speaker001:] it was it was a pleasant time I'd I'd love to go back there there's just not time there's not enough time to go see everything and then to afford to see everything
[speaker002:] I guess that's why we need to plan for retirement so when we do have the free time we'll have the the means to uh pursue our dreams
[speaker001:] right
[speaker002:] yeah I guess that's what retirement is all about
[speaker001:] that's  that and sleeping late
[speaker002:] Yes
[speaker001:] I keep hoping for
[speaker002:] uh-huh I understand that huh
[speaker001:] well it was nice talking with you
[speaker002:] well it was nice talking with you too Craig
[speaker001:] and have a good afternoon
[speaker002:] you do the same thank you bye-bye
[speaker001:] okay good-bye

[speaker001:] Okay.
[speaker002:] Why don't you go ahead and start.
[speaker001:] Okay, well, we subscribe to PEOPLE magazine and to TIME, and, of course I like the PEOPLE magazine because it's gossipy
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and it's fast reading, and, uh, the TIME of course, is, uh, you know, more newsworthy and, uh, it has more world affair type things, of course. And then I will purchase a GOOD HOUSEKEEPING occasionally, especially around the holiday time because of recipes and ideas and
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and things like that
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and, uh, do you subscribe to any magazines?
[speaker002:] Yeah, I, well, I have, in a whi-, for a while I haven't gotten any because I just find that I'm not reading what I'm getting because, uh, I have so much going on in my life that seems to be the last thing I pick up, so I found that I was wasting my money. As much as I enjoy them, uh, when I do subscribe I, I've gotten in the past the PARENTS magazine and, uh, the HOUSEKEEPING magazine
[speaker001:] Uh-huh
[speaker002:] uh.
[speaker001:] you probably have smaller children
[speaker002:] Yes, yeah,
[speaker001:] younger children. My children, our children are grown
[speaker002:] Yeah, yeah,
[speaker001:] and, uh, I'm letting their mother read on the grandchildren [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] Right, well, I found that after a couple of years of having a PARENTS magazine it was getting repetitious, so I kind of canceled it anyway for that reason. Uh, the HOUSEKEEPING magazines I do like because they, like you say, they have nice, uh, recipes in them and ideas, but, uh, lately they've just been piling up on me, so I figured it wasn't, uh, something I needed at this point in time.
[speaker001:] Well, do you think that people subscribe to magazines as much as they used to?
[speaker002:] I don't know, I, I, well, my husband would love to have more. Now he's the type who will get the, uh, INC. magazine and MONEY magazine and all the financial type magazines,
[speaker001:] Yes, now my husband does that, and
[speaker002:] Yeah,
[speaker001:] you know, and of course, uh, naturally WALL STREET JOURNAL, you know
[speaker002:] Uh-huh, yes.
[speaker001:] and, or SPORTS ILLUSTRATED, but I don't know, I know a few people leafing through them at the store
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] but you just don't hear people talk about them, and I know years ago, when, uh, my children were young and stuff, I just loved LADIES HOME JOURNAL, McCALL'S, GOOD HOUSEKEEPING, and I took them all
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and, uh, then, oh, I don't know what in the seventies, maybe, late seventies they changed their format
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and I haven't, I don't think there's been a magazine as they used to be
[speaker002:] Well
[speaker001:] even GOOD HOUSEKEEPING I don't,
[speaker002:] yeah, and some of those have had what, what I consider or what I get the idea that they are maybe the, the more pricier type magazines, as far as women's magazines. They seem just to be so chocked full of, of ads.
[speaker001:] Oh, they are. My sister, uh, takes, uh, TOWN AND COUNTRY and VOGUE
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and she sends them to me, and there's really nothing in them but advertisements
[speaker002:] Yeah, yeah,
[speaker001:] for very expensive clothes, very expensive jewelry
[speaker002:] Yes.
[speaker001:] things that the average middle class citizen is not going to be purchasing [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] Right [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] you know, and if I want to drool or if I want to see how the other half is living
[speaker002:] Yes.
[speaker001:] you know, then I can, I look through them
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] and I do, I just, what I do is I flip through them and, and pitch them then, you know, they're not something I, you know, take any length of time over.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh, uh-huh.
[speaker001:] I have discovered that, you know, with my available time, I would rather actually read a book
[speaker002:] Yes
[speaker001:] than a magazine.
[speaker002:] I enjoy books a lot more
[speaker001:] Yes
[speaker002:] that's true.
[speaker001:] and, uh.
[speaker002:] Well
[speaker001:] So, but.
[speaker002:] now I have certainly stopped subscribing as much as I used to, other than my children have gotten. You know, they get tons of magazines it seems
[speaker001:] Yes [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] they're always getting something in the mail and, and, uh, so between reading to them and, uh, reading the newspaper, and then I have a book that I'm occasionally reading when I get a chance, but I just don't get a chance for those, uh, newsy magazines, the ones that are full of ads, unless you just want to skim through while you're, I, I read them when I'm at a doctor's office or, you know, waiting on something like that.
[speaker001:] Yes, yes, I will read them in a doctor's office, too.
[speaker002:] Yeah,
[speaker001:] As I said, I, I subscribe to, uh, to PEOPLE and to TIME, and, uh, and I will go through the TIME, but, usually not cover to cover, you know, I'll glance through it. I like reading, uh, you know, the PASSAGE OF PEOPLE or something
[speaker002:] Uh-huh, uh-huh.
[speaker001:] you know, and, uh, but I do like the PEOPLE magazine. It, it reminds me of the old time movie magazines when I was young
[speaker002:] Oh, uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and, uh, that's one, and you know, I really like that, I enjoy that. It's quick reading
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] you know, it doesn't require [LAUGHTER] a lot of thinking, and sometimes after I've worked all day
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] and have things to do at night, I just, I want fluff [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] Uh-huh, uh-huh.
[speaker001:] I don't want a lot of thinking [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] That's true, that kind of is a good way to do it.
[speaker001:] It, uh, you know, it's, it's much more relaxing. Sometimes when I read TIME magazine, after I've read an article I'm real depressed over the situation of the world [LAUGHTER],
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] so. Well, it seems like we both kind of agree on the subject of magazines
[speaker002:] Yeah, yeah.
[speaker001:] and, uh
[speaker002:] Okay.
[speaker001:] so, uh, I think that probably I will end the call. I've enjoyed,

[speaker001:] okay yes we do have pollution in Houston and it
[speaker002:] how bad is it do you have smog like they do in California
[speaker001:] well it it some I think it depends on uh you know what the how the cloud cover and like right now it's uh it's kind of overcast you know just it's hot and the sun is trying tries to shine through but it it's it's holding in this this pollution and I I think so and uh we have uh
[speaker002:] uh-huh hm depends on whether you have some sort of temperature inversion I take yeah
[speaker001:] Pasadena Texas which is sort of between here and you know heading toward Galveston I mean it's still part it's part of the Houston metropolitan
[speaker002:] um-hum um-hum what do you think is your primary cause of it
[speaker001:] well I think it's industry and I think it's cars I
[speaker002:] you do you really think cars contribute a lot now that they've taken lead out of gas
[speaker001:] I don't I well maybe not but it it sure it sure seems you know it I I know that when I'm when I'm behind a car and uh sometimes uh I can really smell especially diesel and things like that you know comes right in
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] to my air conditioner and you know my head and my face I'm so stopped up right now I don't know if it's uh if it's partly from what's blooming you know right now pollen and stuff like that that's part of it but um
[speaker002:] hm my goodness um-hum I think a lot of it's industrial I also think uh that uh there is a certain amount that comes from automobiles but it's mostly from older automobiles I don't think the newer automobiles are as polluting uh frankly I think that uh
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] I think that um uh if uh I I I heard a story a while back something effect that if they could just pay to get twenty percent or take all the cars off of the road that have been uh manufactured say before nineteen seventy five that they could cut the automobile pollution by over fifty percent just by getting rid of those cars that are still left remaining
[speaker001:] um-hum you mean uh fifty percent pollution total from that comes from
[speaker002:] yeah from from cars that is not from not total but just from cars okay
[speaker001:] oh uh-huh
[speaker002:] so that I think would be a tremendous help and I happen to drive an old model car because it's very economical and it just keeps getting uh gives me good service and I don't have an incentive to get rid of it long as it keeps running good and not costing me any money on the other hand I know it's a much more polluter than any of the newer model cars I have
[speaker001:] um-hum um-hum
[speaker002:] but I don't have any incentive to get out of it until it dies and uh that may be part of the problem also
[speaker001:] right well do y'all have pollution in your country part of the country uh from industry
[speaker002:] yeah yeah yeah oh uh yeah it's it's uh pretty heavy up here I think but I think it's mostly industrial is what I really uh believe is the the main problem and and uh and uh uh people uh I don't think are paying as close attention to it in this area as they frankly should I I we we seem to have a high uh cancer rate up here in Maryland
[speaker001:] really like what kind any particular kind or just all kinds
[speaker002:] yeah and uh well uh for instance breast cancer seems to be pretty rampant and uh I think of course prostrate cancer's sort of bad for everybody but uh this this this state was like uh second my wife's a registered nurse and I think this state was like second this year from the top in terms of uh cancer rate for just all kinds and I can't help but believe that's not partially caused from pollution I just don't know exactly what it necessarily is but I just can't believe this now we have a lot of pollution being caused by chlorofluorocarbons uh fluorocarbons
[speaker001:] hum
[speaker002:] which is the like freon twelve and freon twenty two they use freon twenty two in air conditioning systems in houses and the like and heat pumps and they use freon twelve in car air conditioners and that's also what's causing our atmosphere to lose it's ozone layer
[speaker001:] um-hum um-hum
[speaker002:] and I can't help believe if it's sufficient enough to make the atmosphere lose it's ozone layer that it's not acting as a pollutant in our lungs also and having all kinds of effects and
[speaker001:] well what can we do about the the the the air conditioning problem
[speaker002:] well they're working now I know DuPont and Dow and several other chemical companies are working uh feverishly to try to come up with a substitute for fluorocarbons and whoever does is gonna make a a mint because if they ever come up with a reasonable
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] working agent in place of fluorocarbons then uh
[speaker001:] is that also what's in uh hairspray aerosol
[speaker002:] well they used to be but they made them take it out of that
[speaker001:] even uh so so the aerosol is still aerosol but it doesn't have anything that's damaging
[speaker002:] right no they they they made passed a law and made them take fluorocarbons out of the aerosol containers
[speaker001:] um-hum well that's good
[speaker002:] and that was a move in the right direction we are doing some things to try to correct the problem but there are more things we could do and getting rid of old cars like I said is one way to help correct the problem uh uh just trying to I think be careful uh with the way you handle garbage I notice in this state I don't know if you're doing it in Texas yet or not but in this state we have special containers now we have to put all our cans and bottles and plastic pieces uh you know containers in yeah
[speaker001:] here they've just started started doing that it's it's you know you're not you don't have to but most you know I I know I am I save
[speaker002:] yeah well we are doing it pretty religiously in our group too but they uh in one of the counties here they're actually doing a trial program of having a trash police they have a lady that goes around like a meter maid and she spot checks people's trash and if they find a bottle or a can or anything like that in your trash they'll fine you fifty bucks I think the first time and two fifty the second time
[speaker001:] no kidding you really oh is that right well we need to do something we need to get serious about it
[speaker002:] yeah you right you got to give people incentives and surprisingly enough just handling of trash uh can cut pollution uh from uh uh from just throwing it in a dump or or or or whatever else they used to do with it maybe used to burn it they've stopped that up here too
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] but that that will cut pollution too because you get a lot of out gassing from these things I think decaying and trying and trying to for instance cans and bottles they never go away at all
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] well on on the other had I don't guess they're polluting but plastic containers and the like uh they may be ah I'm not sure of that
[speaker001:] how much does uh planting more trees and things like that help
[speaker002:] oh I think that's very important to do I I really think that uh trying to get along with your environment and help it out is a very very important thing and uh that can help to cut pollution I guess some I I don't know how much
[speaker001:] I have too um-hum
[speaker002:] trees actually act as filtering agents in terms of pulling various pollutants or chemicals out of the air I would hope that they would help some though that's for sure
[speaker001:] well I think uh it seems like there was something going on around around here that you know we have all these chemical plants and oil refineries and those kinds of things and that they burn off a lot of stuff and some of the stuff that they weren't supposed to do that
[speaker002:] um um-hum um-hum
[speaker001:] somebody found out you know like in the middle of the night they would go ahead and do it anyway I think they got caught but I wonder how much of that kind of stuff you know goes on
[speaker002:] oh good well that uh that I think may go on a lot and the primary reason I think it may go on a lot is just as you said somebody happened to stay up late night or something I don't think we have a adequate policing uh especially particularly on industry uh we have good policing at least in this state and and uh several of the surrounding states and probably yours too of car pollutants because we have to go down uh once a year here in Maryland and get our car's exhaust systems checked for emissions content
[speaker001:] well we have to uh we have to have a state inspection every year do y'all have that so which I I don't I would assume
[speaker002:] um-hum uh no we don't have a state inspection but anytime you sell a car or buy a car it has to be inspected in this state
[speaker001:] so I'm I'm assuming that you know they check they check everything for safety or
[speaker002:] I don't know uh it that's something that you'd have to just chec k with your authorities but in this state we have to uh pay eight dollars and a half and go to a an emission station once a year and get everyone of our cars checked that are have been made starting in nineteen seventy three
[speaker001:] but that's all they check for they don't check how good your if your tires are good enough or your brakes are good enough or
[speaker002:] no no we don't have inspections like that now I'm in Maryland in Virginia they check that every two years I think
[speaker001:] we do that every every year
[speaker002:] and I think that's a good idea too not not not that it necessarily has anything to do with cutting pollution necessarily necessarily but I think it's a good idea the emissions check though is required in Maryland and it's also required in Virginia uh a sister state to to this and that's that goes a long ways towards cutting pollutants
[speaker001:] well I'll have to check I'm not sure if if our state inspection every once a year has to do you know if they check the
[speaker002:] um-hum well if they don't I would imagine in time they'll get along with it they'll get around to it and if they don't then that's something I would certainly certainly uh uh suggest you'd be willing to uh um be for in terms of uh yeah yeah
[speaker001:] uh emissions oh I would I'm for anything that cleans up the air or the water or or or anything on that
[speaker002:] oh yeah I I agree now that's another area we hadn't even discussed and that is water pollution and various of the other types of uh of uh like food pollution I mean you you hardly ever hear hear anybody say anything about food pollution but I think there we have a pretty good handle on inspection of foods in this country so uh hopefully we're not ingesting too much in the way of uh pollutants in our food but water pollution uh I've worried uh especially the last few years about just how good the water supply we have in this country is for drinking and the like I know a lot more people are going to bottled water
[speaker001:] um-hum well and that's not necessarily the answer either because they found out that that's just comes out of somebody's tap so
[speaker002:] yeah tap yeah
[speaker001:] but a lot of these uh some of this well you know a lot of people have well water in fact in this area too and you know and uh
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] if you don't get it tested you don't necessarily know what your what your drinking on I know I know a lot of people you know have that and you know you have to wonder if that you know it could have an adverse effect on them too if they don't if they don't get it checked
[speaker002:] yeah yeah I'm absolutely for drinking water out of wells as long as you first of course have it checked because it seems uh when I was a kid growing up down south uh I used to go out in the country where my grandparents were and we had a well with one of those draws that I forget what you call those things and and that was some of the best tasting water I mean I can still to this day taste that water
[speaker001:] um-hum when we were when I was growing up I lived in Huntsville Alabama and their water supply came from uh
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] spring and it was like ice cold spring water and I guess parts of the the city still have you know get that but uh that was that was really wonderful it was really really good
[speaker002:] uh-huh huh oh I bet it was yeah the it once it's been filtered and if it's a deep enough well filtered through all the earth and everything I think that uh it depends of course where you are a good well though I think is very healthy

[speaker001:] Uh, Greg, uh, I, I'm not familiar. I think, uh, you guys in Indiana, don't you have the, the death penalty?
[speaker002:] Yeah, we do have the death penalty here. It's not exercised very often, but we do have it.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] I believe it, I can't even remember the last execution we had here actually.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Uh, personally I'm in favor of capital punishment. I know there's a lot of, lot of problems with it, but, uh
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] seems to me that some crimes are just so heinous that, that the person just, I feel, doesn't deserve to live, doesn't deserve for the tax payers to spend however many thousands of dollars it costs a year to keep them in, in prison for life.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] But, I know there's a lot of problems with that, like, well, they say, okay, if you declare someone, put them on death row and execute them, well, then ten years later you find out that he really didn't do it, then that life was wasted, but
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] just seems like in some cases that it's a, it's a good policy.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh. Uh, I, I tend to agree with you, uh, [throat clearing] I've changed my views over, uh, e-, even within the last few years, uh, to be honest. Uh, [throat clearing] uh, when I was in coll-, when I was an undergraduate, I was a member of Amnesty International
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and, uh, and, of course, at that time, you know, I thought, uh, uh, it was stupid to kill anybody for, uh, you know, that the eye for an eye was a stupid argument.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] But [throat clearing] the, uh, the more, now I live in downtown Dallas, and I, uh, [throat clearing]
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] you know, I've seen, uh, I've seen cases on, in the news and all where, where, you know, uh, a, a person who had murdered a person is back on the street and then commits another murder.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] [Sniffing] I think that [throat clearing] maybe, uh, a good solution to capital punishment might be, uh, reserve it solely for, uh, repeat offenders of a crime like, uh, murder.
[speaker002:] That's a, that's a thought that I had never really had on that
[speaker001:] Yeah, uh.
[speaker002:] which seems pretty sensible.
[speaker001:] Yeah, it seems sensible and failsafe. I, I, uh, I don't, you know, not completely failsafe, but if a man's convicted of two murders, uh, you know, there's a pretty good chance that something's wrong.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] Uh [inhaling] [throat clearing] I also, uh, to tell you how liberal I have turned, uh, toward this, or, or, or whatever side that is
[speaker002:] Right. [LAUGHTER] Yeah.
[speaker001:] I've kind of chosen, uh, I believe it that, uh, big time drug importers, like, uh, say Noriega for example
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] that these people need to be, uh, eliminated, uh
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] from society, and I think, I think the death penalty is the best choice for those people, because, uh, really any kind of, uh, uh, jail sentence for them is just another chance to, uh, create another power structure [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Yeah, you're, you're right there. Uh, I gue-, basically my views, I guess they tend to be more economically oriented
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] in that I just, you know, they come out with these figures that it costs fifty thousand dollars, taxpayer dollars a year to keep someone alive in jail
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] when they're going to be there for life, they're never going to be rehabilitated.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] I mean, I don't believe that the prison system that we have today does much towards rehabilitation to begin with
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] so to me I'm paying taxes, you know, twenty percent of my check or whatever
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] to keep somebody alive who I, in my mind shouldn't be there in the first place and is never going to be a valuable or worthwhile part of society, so I, I'm all in favor of it.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh. Well, uh, [throat clearing] do you, uh, are there cases where you think that, that, uh, the capital, the capital punishment shouldn't be, uh, uh, sentenced?
[speaker002:] Well, I, I really don't know on that question. It just seems like, for instance, the Jeffrey Dahlmer case. I mean, I don't really think that this person is going to ever be a worthwhile part of society. I hope the guy never gets back out on the streets
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] and in that case, Wisconsin doesn't have a death penalty, so he's going to be sentenced to life imprisonment
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] and I think that, that he should not be allowed to live, but, you know, then you're kind of playing God [LAUGHTER]
[speaker001:] That's true, yeah.
[speaker002:] which is n-, never a good thing to do.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] But cases where I think the death penalty should be withheld, uh, not really that I can think of. I, I would, I would be in favor of the death penalty in things like, you know, murders, and like you said, repeat murders or
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] serial killers
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] uh, I don't really agree with the, uh, death penalty for people like Noriega and such as that. I think that they're, they're operating on a more, I mean, I know that they're causing massive problems in society up here, but I don't really think that, that it's, it's in our power to take these people from a sovereign state and say you don't deserve to live, because
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] they're feeding our consumer needs.
[speaker001:] Sure, yeah, I understand, I understand your point. Yeah. Uh, of course, you know, with, uh, with, with Dahlmer now, uh, you, you realize that Ohi-, I think it's Ohio, uh, gets to try him next and
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] they do have the death penalty.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Yeah, [inhaling] [throat clearing] so, uh, that was a curious case. I.
[speaker002:] Yeah, that is very curious.
[speaker001:] Uh, uh, something is sort of nightmarish
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] to say the least.
[speaker002:] That's, that's right.
[speaker001:] Uh, well, here in Texas we, uh, I think even, even this last week, last week they had another, they, uh, you know, they use their capital punishment by lethal injection, uh, uh,

[speaker001:] Okay [LAUGHTER] he did really decide to go?
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] Um, to Williams College in Massachusetts?
[speaker001:] Uh-huh, sure I'm familiar with it,
[speaker002:] And that he was [LAUGHTER] trying to decide between University of Pennsylvania and Williams, and it was a very difficult choice and, uh, *slash unit?
[speaker001:] And he, well, he must know, is he interested in law or medicine, he must have a definite profession in mind.
[speaker002:] No, *should be nn, slash bug but that's one of the reasons why he chose Williams
[speaker001:] Oh, okay,
[speaker002:] that it has solid liberal arts, *end of slash unit?
[speaker001:] Medium size, aren't they?
[speaker002:] About two thousand, *should be indep slash unit. See B.8
[speaker001:] Is he excited?
[speaker002:] Very excited, yes, uh *should be ny; looks like a slash unit to me!
[speaker001:] Wow, I can, I,
[speaker002:] I have another son who's at their chief rival, Amherst College. *should be independent slash unit. See B.12 utt2
[speaker001:] Uh-huh while they're east coast, I mean, I don't know anything about their football, but there you go.
[speaker002:] Well, they're, they're, they're really very strong academic rather than, you know, big sports,
[speaker001:] Yeah, that's, where, where you at?
[speaker002:] We're outside of, uh, Washington in Maryland. How about you?
[speaker001:] Oh, okay, I'm in, uh, suburban Dallas.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh, do you have children in,
[speaker001:] No, I don't, I have a husband [LAUGHTER]. We don't have any kids yet.
[speaker002:] Okay, um,
[speaker001:] About all I can say is I guess about picking schools, um, I guess, uh, if you don't know what you're going to do, liberal arts program is a good idea.
[speaker002:] Well, I, I, one of the, the advices we've given our children is that you can always learn a job
[speaker001:] This is true,
[speaker002:] uh, but what you can't learn, uh, on a job, is a good solid well-, well-rounded education.
[speaker001:] Right, the humanities, the history, yeah,
[speaker002:] That's right, you know, the Renaissance man
[speaker001:] Right, right, no, no, no [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] and, uh, and if you get that you can, and if you do well, you can, you can learn a job,
[speaker001:] Yeah, but they, you know, if they learn the job and they can go into graduate school
[speaker002:] That's exactly right.
[speaker001:] usually a company, it will, if it's worth it's weight, will subsidize,
[speaker002:] That's right.
[speaker001:] And,
[speaker002:] So the advice we gave to them
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] was, number one, visit the colleges
[speaker001:] This, this is true,
[speaker002:] that you're thinking about
[speaker001:] Yes.
[speaker002:] describe first of all, the size school that you might be interested in
[speaker001:] And if you want to go away, right,
[speaker002:] do you want to go away, how far from home do you want to be.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] What do you want in a college. Now my son is a national level competitive swimmer
[speaker001:] Good.
[speaker002:] so he wanted to swim in school, but he did not want to be in a swim factory.
[speaker001:] Okay. So he wouldn't have gone to something like where we're at, they'd, in Austin, Texas, University of Texas,
[speaker002:] That's right, that's the University of Texas at Austin, or
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] Stanford or something like that
[speaker001:] Texas Aqua-, yeah,
[speaker002:] so he didn't even consider those.
[speaker001:] Okay, well that's, I think the other thing is, too, um, I know I went to a, uh, city high school in Chicago
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and a lot of the kids weren't as fortunate as say, my brother and I were, and economics was the choice
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] um, sounds like your son has academically the standing to get into that type of school.
[speaker002:] He is very, very strong academically, yeah, so, we've just, but, you know, he had to look to see
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] what kind of environment he liked, and yet he, he did wind up having to make a choice. He did apply to a large, you know, large group,
[speaker001:] Yeah, University of Penn, I'm originally from Pennsylvania. Pennsyl-, University of Pennsylvania,
[speaker002:] It's got about nine thousand undergraduate.
[speaker001:] Yeah, that's strong, I mean that's
[speaker002:] Yeah,
[speaker001:] you know
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] and it's, it's, well, it's a little bit, I don't want to use the word wilder, that's not the word I want. Um, more diverse [LAUGHTER],
[speaker002:] Yes, and it, but it does have the under, you know, that's total undergraduate with five hundred graduate school, so that the, uh, the college of arts and sciences is, you know, I guess about four thousand.
[speaker001:] At Williams or Pennsylvania? At Williams,
[speaker002:] At Pennsylvania.
[speaker001:] At Pennsylvania. Well how large is Williams?
[speaker002:] Williams is an undergraduate school only
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] um, and it's a total of two thousand.
[speaker001:] Well that's not bad.
[speaker002:] Yeah, so he knew the feeling because my other son is at Amherst which is
[speaker001:] Which is a lot,
[speaker002:] fifteen hundred
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] and he had visited his brother at Amherst and knew
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] that he liked the environment
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] but he did go on college visits, and he liked,
[speaker001:] That's the thing to do, I mean, I, not having any children, my husband was an Ohio State person, and, uh, that has something like either the first or second largest student population, like fifty thousand.
[speaker002:] Yes, yes
[speaker001:] Combined.
[speaker002:] it's large, and they, both boys had decided no, that they did not want that.
[speaker001:] Yeah, that is too much, and I mean, I, um, I can only say it's strange your son picked those kinds of college because I spent a year at Bennington in Vermont,
[speaker002:] Oh, it's, so you,
[speaker001:] Um, and that was, this was twenty years ago [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Showing my age,
[speaker002:] And did you ever eat at the Blue Bin Diner?
[speaker001:] Yes. Oh my God, where are you from, well, let's not talk about that [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] No but we've been there when whose gone up there.
[speaker001:] It's, um, in that area. I mean I just can't say enough about it.
[speaker002:] Oh, it's, it we went and he was, you know, impressed by the clean air and he, he met the students at both schools and he liked them.
[speaker001:] Well you know, um, my husband's an engineer and a strong, a strong liberal arts background with, uh, a graduate degree in a technical field
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] will get him much further than say like a, a strong, um, business administration degree than with another M B A
[speaker002:] That's it.
[speaker001:] on top of it.
[speaker002:] The thing is if, if a person really knows very early on
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] that they want to go
[speaker001:] and they usually,
[speaker002:] in a technical field, than you're not, then it's probably good to go to, you know, to apply to a school
[speaker001:] Yeah, but they usually don't.
[speaker002:] with a good technical program, but, uh, for, if you're going into, if you know engineering is the thing if, then you've got to at least take engineering.
[speaker001:] Right, but they, no but who does. I mean, I think,
[speaker002:] That's right.
[speaker001:] I think all, I think the majority of people just don't know. No he looked at criteria such as location, size of school
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] uh,
[speaker002:] No he didn't apply to any school further, the furthest away was Bowdoin, in Maine which is about twelve hours.
[speaker001:] That's still pretty far though. I mean a lot of kids just don't even want to go,
[speaker002:] Yeah, that was the furthest and then Kenyon in Ohio which was about six and a half hours and Williams is about seven.
[speaker001:] Oh, that's not too bad.
[speaker002:] Yeah so, well, I mean he, so it wasn't, he, you know, then the University of Pennsylvania is like two hours from here by train and then Bucknell in mid-state Pennsylvania.
[speaker001:] Yeah, he will enjoy Williams I think and is a good academic,
[speaker002:] Yeah, and he will, and if, it came down I mean, as he, he came, he's been talking to them and,
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] and he came down and one of the things that he said is, he went to Pennsylvania this weekend and he had an absolutely marvelous time
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] he had a great time but then he said, you know, it was such a good time that I almost got the feeling that their emphasis is on having fun.
[speaker001:] That could very well be and,
[speaker002:] and he said it almost back-, I think it backfired.
[speaker001:] So he's developing his, his, uh, internal instincts right now. That's good because
[speaker002:] So.
[speaker001:] I mean I'm sure what he said was true, that, uh, you, well actually that's one of the reasons I went to, Kenyon, he we-, he made a good choice. I went, I, well I was supposed to, but I spent a year in Vermont, my freshman year, it was just too far away, it was too different
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] uh, the level of income of lot of the students and their attitudes was just, um, beyond my,
[speaker002:] Yeah, yeah.
[speaker001:] um, in terms of drugs, et cetera, which I thought was shocking.
[speaker002:] Of course, that period too was probably difficult.
[speaker001:] Right, yeah, you're right but then I went,
[speaker002:] But I did, uh, my advice to him,
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] and my hus-, was that, uh, he had to really decide what he wanted out of college. He had to look at himself. Uh, in a larger school he had to realize that if he was going to screw around it, he could probably slip and it wouldn't be caught up until it was too late where in a smaller school
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] where, especially in a Kenyon or a Williams, where you see the professors around town all the time, you skip class in the morning and they see you,
[speaker001:] And you're going to get a little bit more input [LAUGHTER] than
[speaker002:] That's, yeah, yeah.
[speaker001:] discipline yeah.
[speaker002:] And a swim coach is going to be right on top of you, uh, so that, and he will know the professors in a small,
[speaker001:] Well I don't know how to put this either in this way and then it doesn't sound like your sons would need this but I just think the other thing is with the way a lot of the youth is today, I think the refinement that they get
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] I don't mean specifically or culture but just what you're saying, just a solid background
[speaker002:] Yeah, yeah.
[speaker001:] because I just don't think at that age I just don't think that young people know what they want to do.
[speaker002:] That's right, that's right.
[speaker001:] You know and, um,
[speaker002:] And, um, and it's just the personal contact where if you need help
[speaker001:] That's right.
[speaker002:] he had, I told him to look to yourself. Are you the kind of person that will go into a large college and if the professor says I've got office hours but you really don't feel that you know him because you're in a class of a hundred
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] that you're really going to look him up
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] but if it's a class of fifteen
[speaker001:] This is very, very,
[speaker002:] and you need help, you know that it's much easier to do it and especially in the large schools they have lectures
[speaker001:] Oh.
[speaker002:] and even though they may break it up into smaller groups Penn is known for having
[speaker001:] They have video lectures.
[speaker002:] graduate assistance teaching.
[speaker001:] Yeah. Video lectures.
[speaker002:] They have graduate assistants to teach the smaller groups.
[speaker001:] This is true, and I mean that is very ironic too that your son just made the, did he just make the decision today?
[speaker002:] he made the decision, uh, I'd say, about, uh, an hour and a half ago [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] How funny [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Yeah, I mean, that's so funny. I mean, and, and, in fact, he had just an hour before that two, uh, recent graduates from Kenyon spent close to two hours talking with him
[speaker001:] That's funny.
[speaker002:] and, uh, I mean, and he, they were really nice, and, but he said is, that they didn't tell him anything that he didn't know, but they helped confirm his decision that a smaller school was better.
[speaker001:] It was easy for him to rule out. He knew what he didn't want
[speaker002:] Yeah, yeah.
[speaker001:] that's exactly, yeah. Now is your other, I mean we're talking about what you think, but obviously you're experiencing it. Uh,
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Did your other son, um,
[speaker002:] My other son is just as happy as a bed bug.
[speaker001:] A clam.
[speaker002:] He, the moment he knew, he, he decided early on that Amherst was the school. He's a classical guitarist
[speaker001:] Oh, wonderful.
[speaker002:] and he decided, he also got into the graduate school of music as an undergraduate
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] for classical guitar, but he decided he was going to go to the, um
[speaker001:] The smaller and the,
[speaker002:] the smaller now, and then graduate school later.
[speaker001:] And they'll do fine in their studies, and I'm sure they'll go on to graduate school, and, * I think this should be a slash unit, since A's next utterance follows B's longer turn
[speaker002:] Well, he's really, my older boy's real happy, and he's minoring in English, and he had thought about economics, and he took a couple of courses in economics and decided that wasn't,
[speaker001:] And now he's a sen-, he's a senior * should be an indep slash unit or is this early admissions?
[speaker002:] He's, um, he's going to be a junior. He'll be, he's finishing his sophomore year
[speaker001:] So he's,
[speaker002:] so he's double majoring.
[speaker001:] So he's, yeah, well sounds like you have two talented sons.
[speaker002:] Well, you know, see the advice we give is to not limit yourself, especially this, you know, go to a school where you're not forced to make too many irrevocable decisions your first year or two.
[speaker001:] I think, and a lot of people talk about, and it's not the economics I solely zeroed in on, but I think a lot of people think a lot of people think about the tuition level and what exactly are you getting in return
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] and I think that a lot of people shy away from the smaller coll-, colleges because of that, and I think it's rather sad,
[speaker002:] Well, one of the things we said is that they should pick the college, this was our advice, too, irrespective of the cost. That somehow we would manage.
[speaker001:] You are wonderful parents [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Well, we place a real high priority on education in our family.
[speaker001:] No, and I agree, I mean, my husband and I, in fact, I'm taking my L S A T -s, um, I'm thirty something
[speaker002:] Oh, good, that's wonderful.
[speaker001:] and taking my L S A T -s on June tenth.
[speaker002:] Oh, that's great.
[speaker001:] The point being, and your sons will learn this from you, I'm sure, that, uh, no matter what age you are, you can learn
[speaker002:] That's right, that's exactly,
[speaker001:] and, it sounds like they're going to, you know, they're,

[speaker001:] Hello.
[speaker002:] Hello there.
[speaker001:] Did I reach the Dallas area?
[speaker002:] I beg your pardon?
[speaker001:] Did I reach the Dallas area?
[speaker002:] No, you've reached Dayton, Ohio.
[speaker001:] Dayton, Ohio, I'm from North Carolina.
[speaker002:] Oh, you're from North Carolina. Where in North Carolina?
[speaker001:] In Raleigh.
[speaker002:] Raleigh, great.
[speaker001:] Yeah, so [talking] [NOISE]. *need slash
[speaker002:] Well, my name's Mary.
[speaker001:] My name is Fernando. *sd
[speaker002:] Fernando, glad to know you.
[speaker001:] So, um, do you, well, how'd you find out about this?
[speaker002:] Uh, I was visiting my son down in Dallas, and.
[speaker001:] Oh, okay, he works for T I.
[speaker002:] No, no, but his wife has a contract with T I, and that's how we learned about it, uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Oh, okay, because I'm down at N C State.
[speaker002:] Yeah, uh-huh.
[speaker001:] And so I took a class, and he said, sign up and get some money
[speaker002:] Right [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] and just talk for five minutes. [talking] So are you ready?
[speaker002:] I'm ready.
[speaker001:] Okay, let's get started. [beep] [Sounds like a phone beeping in.]
[speaker002:] All right, okay.
[speaker001:] Okay, so, uh, what do you think, that, uh, what do, what do, what do you think we can do to solve the crime in America?
[speaker002:] Oh, if I knew that I'd be a very wealthy person.
[speaker001:] Yeah, but what, what, what are the steps?
[speaker002:] Well, you have to see, I, the way I look at it, you have to think first of all why, *listen or ha-, has crime increased, and if so, why has crime increased?
[speaker001:] Well, see the problem is, is that, um, [clicking] what happens is as, that you're, uh, you know, as you go from the country to a city, crime always increases, right?
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Because in the country, people still respect, uh, the property of other people.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] And so, as, as, and the people in the country don't want as much as the people in the city.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Now what happens is all those that don't have any money in the country move to the cities, and they rush to get the same thing. They say, why can't we have the same things that these other people have, and the thing that we can do is, we need money for drugs, and what we have to do is, we have to go, uh, get some stuff, steal it, and then, you know, just resell it.
[speaker002:] It's easy, you said the magic word there.
[speaker001:] Which one?
[speaker002:] Drugs.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] And that certainly is one reason why crime here has increased.
[speaker001:] That's, uh, that's, uh, the main reason I think, uh, everywhere because, uh, you have deaths. I mean, I mean, you have murders and you have, you know, people stealing other people's stuff, and that's a lot of it has to do with drugs.
[speaker002:] Oh, yes.
[speaker001:] It doesn't have to do, I mean, the thing is is that, you know, it's like you might be standing somewhere, right, and like let's say you, you're, you're, you know, you're driving out and you're driving back home and it's late at night. And you stop by one of these, you know, twenty-four hour, you know, gas stations joints.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] And, uh, somebody walks in there with a gun. I mean, they're going to want the money, and you can tell by the people who are always caught, that these people are there to get money for drugs. I mean, they don't want the money so, uh, so they can do something else with it.
[speaker002:] No, they don't want the money for food, that's for sure.
[speaker001:] Right, right, and so.
[speaker002:] Well, but you know, the, the strange thing, uh, perhaps, not strange, but something that many people don't realize, is that you can go back as far as nineteen fifty-one and fifty-two and find that there were drug dealers at that time trying to influence the high school kids, because, uh, I'm a retired educator.
[speaker001:] Okay [NOISE].
[speaker002:] And, in fifty-one and fifty-two, the police came to the high school where I was and were telling us how to recognize when kids were on drugs, how to recognize the pushers
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] outside the one entrance, that they were giving their drugs away in order to get the kids started, and so on, and so on. So it's a problem that's been around for over forty years, and we're just really, uh, uh, now, trying to, uh, figure out how to cope with the problem because it has grown so huge.
[speaker001:] Yeah, there's a, there's a, uh, a song that I know which says, you know, tha-, it's like, in, uh, nineteen eighty-eight, nineteen eighty-nine, the local, state, and federal governments spent the least amount of money on crime in America, and, uh, their figures, I think are too, so I mean it's like, compared to, you know, compared to, weapons or stuff like that, I mean, you're spending nothing on, on crime in the country itself. What you're doing is, you, you know, it's like, you have other things, you know, you have the AIDS we're going to solve, try to solve
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] the AIDS problem while, while, you know, some people are getting killed here and there and then [NOISE].
[speaker002:] Yeah and another one of the problems is that the people who are the dealers, the big dealers in drugs,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] may be, may be part of the power structure that's keeping us from spending the money in that direction.
[speaker001:] But those people never get caught. The people that
[speaker002:] That's right, they'll never get caught.
[speaker001:] that, that I, see, their theory is that if I'm surrounded, and I'm going to be caught, I'm going to try to find my way through, and they're not going to take me alive.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] But I have such a big army outside of my place, that nobody can touch me.
[speaker002:] That's right. But they'll,
[speaker001:] You know, it's like, of course, I mean I might be, you know, the the leading drug dealer here, but you won't find me dealing in drugs, I mean, there's no connection
[speaker002:] That's right.
[speaker001:] between me and the people that were caught, you know.
[speaker002:] That's right, and, they, one person doesn't know the other person down the line.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] But the guy at the very top, the one who's, who's really making the millions and the millions is the one who also many times is part of the power structure, uh, the, uh, and had the political
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] uh, pull to keep things from, uh, keep the interest or the emphasis in some other direction, other than on the drug dealing, because it sure is monstrous in this country.
[speaker001:] Yeah, I was, I was at a, at a party on Saturday, and this guy comes over, he goes, hey, how you doing, he started talking to me, and this guy was from Jamaica, right.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] And he's got his little brother selling drugs [talking] [Voices in background].
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] You know, and he goes, yeah, I just came up here to work, and I go, oh you did, you make very good money up here. He goes, yeah, I make a lot, a lot of money, he goes, you know. And, uh, in the movie GOOD FELLOWS.
[speaker002:] Yeah, might. *spelling??
[speaker001:] Did you see it?
[speaker002:] Nope, I only heard about it.
[speaker001:] Okay, in one part, the guy goes out of jail, and within, uh, two months, he has all his house payments gone
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] everything paid, you know, and he had enough money to, you know, it's like, those guys, at one point, you know, they had so much money that they didn't know what to do with it [talking].
[speaker002:] Yeah, really, you know, even in our prison systems they're finding that they're, they're having drugs smuggled into them.
[speaker001:] Yeah, yeah, that's, that, that was also in the movie.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] Yeah. So hello Mary.
[speaker002:] Been nice talking with you.
[speaker001:] We've been talking for five minutes?
[speaker002:] I beg your, we've been talking for a little bit. I appreciate the call. I enjoyed talking with you.
[speaker001:] All right, okay, same here.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh, bye-bye.
[speaker001:] Bye-bye.

[speaker001:] in in light the light of what has been happening lately with the doctors that I know and lawyers and whatnot I think national health insurance is a way to throw a lot of money at a very small problem
[speaker002:] do you why
[speaker001:] why well if you took half the money that they would spend in the state of Texas for health insurance and gave it to qualified students to so they could become doctors the problem would go away
[speaker002:] you think the problem is not enough doctors
[speaker001:] I think the problem is that the doctor doctors have conspired to limit the number of doctors and that the lawyers have conspired to make sure that if you are a doctor you are going to pay high premiums on your health uh unemployment I mean on your liability
[speaker002:] gosh I really have a different point of view on this well because I'm a nurse for one thing
[speaker001:] oh uh-huh and you think there are plenty of doctors
[speaker002:] oh yeah I don't think there is a shortage of doctors and I do know that OB which is my field the doctors' health insurance the doctors' malpractice insurance is over two hundred thousand dollars a year
[speaker001:] uh-huh it's astronomical
[speaker002:] that deliver babies now they can't doing anything about that I don't think they're in a conspiracy I think it's our fault because we as people just sue them
[speaker001:] no people don't sue
[speaker002:] people are very sue sue conscious
[speaker001:] lawyers sue if you put a ten thousand dollar cap on the amount of money that a lawyer could make from a law suit against a doctor
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] they wouldn't sue a one of them
[speaker002:] well that's probably true too
[speaker001:] you know
[speaker002:] but people are very conscious of how much money they can get real fast these days
[speaker001:] well sure but you know when you think about reasonableness now I believe that a law suit should have some foundation in the the tort theory you know what tort theory is
[speaker002:] and so no
[speaker001:] well a tort is when you do something wrong
[speaker002:] right
[speaker001:] well it uh an OBGYN doctor cannot control the fetus in the womb a hundred percent
[speaker002:] that's right
[speaker001:] if the baby is born dead well that happens if if they have complications and
[speaker002:] well it depends
[speaker001:] well I know I mean there are guys that are real slobs but you know there are also people out there that are really doing their job and the people that are really doing their job are paying for everybody else
[speaker002:] well that's true they are because doctors are performing many more tests many of them are unnecessary they are doing so many C sections
[speaker001:] you know  just to prevent a a law suit
[speaker002:] just to prevent because they have all these monitors now and if anything looks even a little bit funny
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] their only safety precaution is to go in and get that baby and so it's costing more all around in health insurance for tests for surgery for longer hospital stay so it's terrible
[speaker001:] yeah uh-huh see I believe that there there is a system already in place for health care
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] you know they have indigent health care you show up at Parkland bleeding and they'll fix you
[speaker002:] you'll get it that's true
[speaker001:] you know
[speaker002:] in fact you'll get it at Presbyterian if you show up there too and we have that happen we have patients that go through Parkland through the clinic and at the last minute they come to us well
[speaker001:] yeah uh-huh uh-huh
[speaker002:] uh we can't turn them away so
[speaker001:] yeah I think that if you just wrote the lawyers out of the equation the problem would pretty much evaporate
[speaker002:] yeah I'm for that I've been through a two year divorce where the only one that came out ahead was my lawyer so I'd like to wipe them all out
[speaker001:] yeah well I I happen to know a few and I even claim one as a friend he's a divorce attorney
[speaker002:] he better not be mine
[speaker001:] but  I think he'll go nameless for the for the purposes of this conversation but I also know an uh OBGYN who has stopped practicing
[speaker002:] yeah some they do
[speaker001:] uh he just said
[speaker002:] they stop their OB at least
[speaker001:] yeah I mean he's not going to deliver any more babies ever his malpractice was five hundred thousand dollars a year
[speaker002:] right right that's incredible
[speaker001:] and you know he said I had to he had to earn gross two million to take home as much as his malpractice
[speaker002:] yeah and most of them are very sincere most of them do the best they can they are human occasionally
[speaker001:] uh yeah this this guy is Catholic
[speaker002:] something will go wrong
[speaker001:] yeah I mean you know
[speaker002:] well you can be human and Catholic
[speaker001:] yeah I know you can be human and Catholic but you're not likely to find somebody who is going to you know have a less conscientious effort I mean
[speaker002:] yeah no most of them do I really believe that from dealing with doctors dealing with lawyers there is no doubt in my mind who is more conscientious but
[speaker001:] well you know who is getting rich insurance companies
[speaker002:] yeah they are
[speaker001:] you know if you were able to write a malpractice insurance that would negate any financial obligation on the part of the doctor over and above the insurance say say you have malpractice insurance and a kid dies or is malformed or

[speaker001:] Okay, we're going to talk about the public school system,
[speaker002:] Okay.
[speaker001:] What's wrong with it, an, or if anything is wrong with it and what we can do about it, what should be done about it.
[speaker002:] Fantastic. Well one thing that pops into my mind real quick is, uh, about the, uh, funding of, the, the school system right now.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] Evidently, uh, that's, that's a big problem.
[speaker001:] Yeah, it's amazing, uh, I always thought that teachers never got paid nearly enough, I mean,
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] to be doing what they're doing, uh. When I was in college I, I enjoyed teaching, 'cause I did some teaching part-time and I really enjoyed that but I wouldn't want to go teach high school or junior high, it just, you know, all the problems.
[speaker002:] Oh, Lord, I mean, yeah, an, you talk about stress and pressure, I tell you what, it's, uh,
[speaker001:] Yeah, they're putting in fifty, sixty hours a week, I'm sure, because they've got to grade papers and get class stuff ready.
[speaker002:] Do, right.
[speaker001:] And, you know, and they're being paid, probably half what most people being paid.
[speaker002:] Exactly, and,
[speaker001:] And we're paying basketball people, you know, millions of dollars a year for, for what, you know.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] That's right, and then they, uh, poof it off, you know, do like Tarpley.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] But, uh, I what gets me is I can't believe that Congress, uh, or, our state legislature can't come up with, uh, some kind of workable means to have funds for the school. You know, it's, uh, I just don't understand that.
[speaker001:] Yeah, it's, uh. Now do you have little kids, or what?
[speaker002:] No, uh, sure don't, my wife and I've just been married about two years but I have a sister that's a, uh, school teacher, and, uh.
[speaker001:] Yeah, yeah, my wife and I have a, a three year old, almost four and a, a two year old.
[speaker002:] Okay.
[speaker001:] So we're looking at the, the older one going to school next year. Not, not, well not this coming fall but the year after that.
[speaker002:] Okay, so it's getting close.
[speaker001:] Yeah, he's going to be going to kindergarten, so.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] So, you know, we're, we're thinking about that. What's that going to be like. Are they going to be taught nothing, or they going be taught something, we're going to, we're going to be involved in our child's education. We're going to be teaching him what we can at home, of course,
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] because, uh, I guess we don't trust the school system, which is very sad, uh, but.
[speaker002:] Exactly.
[speaker001:] But if it doesn't start at home, it's not going to go anywhere.
[speaker002:] Right, that's true.
[speaker001:] You know, and we're going to try to teach him good values, because, you know, we-, when, when they get to upper level school and they start teaching them, well hey, if you can play football or basketball that's what's important. Not if you can read or write, or do, or un-, understand some science.
[speaker002:] Exactly.
[speaker001:] You know, I mean give me a break, that's, that's, that's bogus.
[speaker002:] Right, right. Well and, uh, you know, one thing my wife and I've talked about, i-, are, uh, private schools.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] You know whether, uh, uh, we would want to invest in, in private schools as they're g-, growing up, because, you know, just in the Dallas area, um, we're not real comfortable with the, with the public schools.
[speaker001:] And Dallas, uh, school district just recently got an advised status because of their low quality schooling.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] I couldn't believe that.
[speaker002:] Right. You know, [breathing] one, that's one reason we bought a house here in Plano. We were hoping, you know, well the school district's going to be good, you know, for resale value, and,
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] so on and so forth, but, uh, I can definitely, uh, see on down the road, you know, where we do have kids and are getting to that age, that's going to be a definite concern.
[speaker001:] Yeah, we talked, you talked about before, about the school funding. I think there's only going to be one solution to school funding which I don't think will be necessarily the best way but I think what's going to have to happen is there's going to have to be tuition for grade school and junior high and high school kids. That's the only way they're going to fund it, because if they start raising taxes for property, and people are going to throw a fit.
[speaker002:] That's, yeah, and, you know, that's, taxes right now are political suicide.
[speaker001:] Oh, yeah.
[speaker002:] You know, and I don't think any politician's going to do that, so.
[speaker001:] Yeah, and the only thing, they, they would think of would be tuition, you know, if it works at colleges it will work down below.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] And, you know, that's going to, that's going to affect the people that are having kids in school, of course, which is probably the only fair thing to do. But, it will be hard for those that people, that have, have in school because they have to pay out even more.
[speaker002:] Exactly. And, you know, it's going to really hurt the, the middle class, uh, people, I think.
[speaker001:] Oh, yeah.
[speaker002:] Because, uh, they're the ones that will probably have to, to carry the brunt of the load.
[speaker001:] That's right.
[speaker002:] So, uh,
[speaker001:] And most of the problems with kids in school carrying guns and, and knives and everything, I mean, good grief what's.
[speaker002:] Yeah now, that's, that's just unbelievable to me, you know.
[speaker001:] I can't believe that. I mean when I was in junior high and high school that never happened. You never heard about that.
[speaker002:] Well yeah, we didn't, we didn't even think about it, you know [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] No. And now, you know, what do we have now. You know, got kids that, either got a, you know, a Magnum gun school, like good grief.
[speaker002:] R-, right.
[speaker001:] I mean, I'd, I'd be afraid to be in school, I mean b-, teaching, or even being a student and think what, what's it going to be like for my, my youngest, an my oldest son, when he goes to school. What's going to happen? I mean I, I'm afraid for him to go.
[speaker002:] Exactly, right.
[speaker001:] But there again, you can't hold them back.
[speaker002:] Another reason, yo-, and you want to encourage them, you know, to, to be active and everything in school, but, uh, you know, with all the peer pressure that's going on, with all the negative things, it is, uh, it's a tough environment to be growing up in.
[speaker001:] Yeah, and lot tougher than it was when I was going to school, and that was, well I was, I graduated high school in nineteen seventy-nine, so.
[speaker002:] Okay.
[speaker001:] That was what, twelve years ago, I guess.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] So, you know, it's lot different now. And what's it going to be like in another twelve years when my, uh, oldest son is in high school.
[speaker002:] That's right, that's right.
[speaker001:] I'm afraid to, I'm afraid to even think about it.
[speaker002:] That, yeah, that is a scary thought, but, uh, I don't know, I, I guess what you have to do is just, uh, keep in, uh, you know, encouraging them and, and, uh, uh, try to be open with them, so that y-, you can deal with the problems as they come up.
[speaker001:] [Barking]. That's all you can do.
[speaker002:] Yeah, and.
[speaker001:] You got to, you got to be your child's best friend, I guess,
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] even when they're a teenager and they, you know are kind of standoffish, still you got to be their best friend because when they've got problems, who they going to go to, their friends that are dealing drugs, or, or your parents.
[speaker002:] Exactly.
[speaker001:] You know, an, and if they go to their friends dealing drugs, they're going to be in even worse shape.
[speaker002:] That's right.
[speaker001:] And, and the schools don't, don't really encourage to stay away from that, you know, the schools are there to teach history and that we fought the civil war, etcetera, etcetera. They don't teach them good values like drugs are bad. I, maybe I'm wrong, because I haven't, you know, been in that kind of environment for a long time, but,
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] it just is amazing, you know, need to teach them good values.
[speaker002:] That's true, that's true, and, uh.
[speaker001:] Of course, wh-, if I say this is a good value, someone else is going to stand up and say, oh no. And the A C L U is going to get after them and have a lawsuit.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] Which is going to take twenty years to resolve, you know.
[speaker002:] Well and I think, uh, you touched on it, you know, you've got to start them at the home.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] You know that's where they, that's where they get the, the deep rooted values and,
[speaker001:] That's all you can do.
[speaker002:] and, and, uh, and that's about right. Then you just have to hope and pray that, that everything, uh, works out, works out okay, so.
[speaker001:] That's right. Well I got to be going, so, uh.
[speaker002:] Okay, well, hey, I appreciate the call.
[speaker001:] Nice talking to you today.
[speaker002:] You to.
[speaker001:] Have a good life, uh.

[speaker001:] Okay, we're being recorded.
[speaker002:] All right, Ron.
[speaker001:] Uh, number one, I am one hundred percent for total gun t-, control. I,
[speaker002:] Total gun control.
[speaker001:] Yes, I am not a member of the National Rifle Association and,
[speaker002:] [Throat clearing].
[speaker001:] I don't believe in hunting, and, uh, I just have had my fill of what is going on with the crime rate and I really feel that we have to do something in order to, uh, to,
[speaker002:] Yes, I, I agree something should be done, but I, there, I don't believe there is any way of total control over weapons, because crooks and people who are going to perform things that are not correct [lipsmack] will have access to weapons from somewhere and that means they'll always have an advantage over us and, uh, they may even get worse because they know we have nothing to support myself. Now, you know, I, I agree with a lot of the things you just said in your few moments because personally I used to be a great hunter and in the last few years I've said, no way. Matter of fact, if I find a, uh, a, a fly running around in the house, I pick him up and carry him outdoors [LAUGHTER]. I, I don't even hit him with a flyswatter, so I've, uh, gotten over this business of wanting to go out and shooting and, and killing and that sort of thing.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] But I, I think that, uh, personally, that we do need some weapons available to most of the people. Most of the people really are, uh, honest and, uh, worthy of carrying on their lives properly. Uh, I'm sort of in line thinking in terms, I don't see anything wrong with this five day waiting period if the waiting period is utilized to really look at the background of the person purchasing the weapon. I mean there's nothing wrong with that. Do you see anything wrong with that?
[speaker001:] No, there's only one problem I have with the whole thing though, th-, is, you know, when they do it, I think our biggest problem is, yes, the, the crooks and what have you are going to get weapons if the weapons are available.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] I think the biggest problem we have in this country is there are just entirely too many weapons available. And the types of the weapons. I mean there is
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] no,
[speaker002:] I'm again-, I'm against this, uh, automatic and semiautomatic stuff.
[speaker001:] Right, there is,
[speaker002:] I don't think we should have access to those.
[speaker001:] There is no reason for it. I mean,
[speaker002:] No.
[speaker001:] And, you know, when people say, you know, well, my God, they're, they're cutting into my civil liberties and all this, no, I, I, I take a different stand that as long as they are available and they are so readily accessed out there, then something is taken away from my civil liberties. *separated into an additional slash unit before no,?
[speaker002:] Huh [faint].
[speaker001:] And, uh, maybe I'm a little bit strong when I said total gun t-, control. That's, that's really not what I meant. But, I mean we need control. We've got to be able to get a handle on what is happening and we've got to reduce the number of weapons that are out in the, in the
[speaker002:] Yes.
[speaker001:] in the public.
[speaker002:] And the, the people should be, uh, selected so that we know that they are all right and that they're, they're not, uh, acquiring weapons for illicit use. Uh, that is not good. There's nothing wrong with a person that enjoys the mechanisms. As a matter of fact, uh, there's a fellow out there working on my house right now who, uh, brought to me a target from a rifle that he, uh, pretty well, halfway designed and he, he put together the, uh, the bullets in it
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] and he was showing me that at a hundred yards, he kept five shots within a quarter of an inch of each other at one hundred yards. Now, see from a technical point of view, that is something that, that our military people need to know about.
[speaker001:] Um.
[speaker002:] So there are other interesting, uh, facets in, in guns and weapons. This is a, uh, bolt action rifle, I think he has. And he has done other things to the way the, uh, barrel sits in the, uh, [lipsmack] the wood part of it. And, uh, he designed the, the, the bullets themselves and he has [breathing] fantastic accuracy.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Just, just from a technical point of view, that interests me. Not to kill anybody with it or anything with it, but just the fact that a piece of mechanism like that could be made to be so accurate.
[speaker001:] [Breathing] Yes. All right, you, you sound like you're into the technology of it, which is, yeah, I agree. And, you know, and, again, I'm, my entire family are, they are all hunters
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and, you know, they, they don't appreciate my stand, and I
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] I have no, I really have no problem with sports hunters. I really don't. It's just [LAUGHTER] when they come out and they say they need an Uzi in order to do some accurate or decent deer hunting, I think [LAUGHTER], I think that's totally outrageous. What's happening is people are losing, they seem to be losing their common sense over the issue.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] And the issue,
[speaker002:] [Throat clearing].
[speaker001:] is, the issue is becoming the focus and not what is actually happening with guns. Uh, I, I think something will happen.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.

[speaker001:] Well, um, with credit cards is, me, I, uh, I try to get maybe just one or two, I don't, I don't like having credit cards for every store. I, I, uh, I just don't like them [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] What are you afraid of with them?
[speaker001:] What am I afraid of?
[speaker002:] Yes.
[speaker001:] Um, I don't know if I'm really afraid of spending too much. I just, uh, don't think that I need them, you know. I, uh, they are tempting at times,
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] but I, I just, you know, sometimes I just don't like everybody knowing everything about me, you know, so,
[speaker002:] Well, that's very, can be very, very true.
[speaker001:] So, and th-, you know, everybody just gives you a credit card just so you'll spend money so,
[speaker002:] Well, that's the idea. They figure that,
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] if they give you card,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] at no charge for a whole year that you will use it and,
[speaker001:] That's right. See they make money off of it, whether you use it or not.
[speaker002:] Absolutely. Well, the other thing, of course, is the fact that they hope,
[speaker001:] [Child].
[speaker002:] you will not pay your bill at the end of the month,
[speaker001:] That's right.
[speaker002:] so that you would be paying interest.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] I use mine a great deal, um, for groceries, for everything that I can and,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] then just write one check at the end of the month,
[speaker001:] That's what I do.
[speaker002:] for the entire thing, right.
[speaker001:] That's what I do. Just a second. [Talking to child in background.] Sorry [Child].
[speaker002:] That's all right. Sounds like you have a little one there.
[speaker001:] I have two little ones. Yes.
[speaker002:] Oh, you have.
[speaker001:] Yeah. So tha-,
[speaker002:] Great. How old are they?
[speaker001:] um, four and two and half.
[speaker002:] Oh, boy. Those are two very active ages [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Yes. So, yeah, um, I'm, I'm like you I, I use my, only use my credit card for, um, you know, when I, you know, I just use it whenever I feel like I don't want to write a check, and then, but I don't charge anything that I can't payoff at the end of the month.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] So,
[speaker002:] Well, uh, do you, uh, do you ever use the A T M machines?
[speaker001:] No, I never do. My husband does at work just to get cash out, but, uh, I take the checkbook so I, you know, I, just, if I need cash, I just tell him and he gets it out and I don't even think I know my number [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] Well, I find it a great use from the standpoint that you don't have to continue to write checks,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] in order to get cash.
[speaker001:] That's right. See we, he couldn't do without it, h-, but, you know, since he can just do it right there at work,
[speaker002:] Oh, that helps.
[speaker001:] for nothing.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] Well the, the other thing some people are not aware of, is they will use their A, their credit card like their Visa or their MasterCard for cash
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] and when they do that, they begin paying interest right from that very day on.
[speaker001:] You're right. And that's kind of silly.
[speaker002:] Yeah right. Absolutely.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] Because they,
[speaker001:] You're defeating the purpose.
[speaker002:] they figure that, that's correct [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] The idea is to use their money [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Yeah.
[speaker002:] And, uh, during that whole month and,
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] then pay it at the end of the month.
[speaker001:] Yeah, I mean, I get, I get at least one or two a week.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] People, t-, you know, sending me a credit card or calling me on the phone and I just say I don't want it.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] Because I,
[speaker002:] Well, I think that's the only thing you can do, is just say no and mean no and,
[speaker001:] Yeah. It's like,
[speaker002:] not be tempted.
[speaker001:] I'd like to know where they determine that I'm such a good credit risk that they can go and say, you get this much credit line. You know.
[speaker002:] Well, i-,
[speaker001:] You've already been preapproved.
[speaker002:] oh, absolutely, preapproved. That's their favorite word.
[speaker001:] Yes. Everybody in the country is preapproved, I think.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] I think so, you're right.
[speaker001:] So,
[speaker002:] Well, it's interesting, uh, that, uh,
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] people have the, generally the same view.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] of credit cards,
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] no matter where you go.
[speaker001:] And, then, some people they get so wrapped up in them that they find, you know, one day they find, wow, I didn't realize I had this much,
[speaker002:] That much stuff.
[speaker001:] you know, I'd spent this much money.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] And, then they can't meet the minimum monthly payments on it.
[speaker002:] Well, and some people use one credit card to pay for another credit card they own,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] and, I mean, that does nothing, but exacerbate the entire problem.
[speaker001:] Yeah, it does because you're, you know, you, you're, you know, you're just co-, costing yourself more money because you, if you can't make the monthly, the minimum payment, you're paying interest,
[speaker002:] That's right.
[speaker001:] again so,
[speaker002:] That's right.
[speaker001:] Yeah so,
[speaker002:] Well it's been enjoyable talking with you.
[speaker001:] Yeah. It's enjoyable talking with, seeing that somebody feels the same way, so, well,
[speaker002:] Right. Well take good care. Take care of your little ones.
[speaker001:] You, you too. Good luck.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Bye-bye.
[speaker002:] Bye-bye.

[speaker002:] um what kind of hobbies do you have
[speaker001:] um I do a lot of cross-stitching and painting when I do have spare time oh I love it
[speaker002:] really I like cross-stitch too  I just have a hard time finding any spare time lately
[speaker001:] I'm that's my case also I've got a new born and and there's just no time
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] have have you been cross-stitching long
[speaker002:] oh several years my husband is even interested in it now he likes to help me design um you know projects that are a little more customized
[speaker001:] oh really mine sort of he looks at the pattern and he says how do you get that from there to the to the material
[speaker002:] not that hard I really I really enjoy it
[speaker001:] but oh its not and once uh once you get started on it it's just oh I just I love it I do a lot of my own patterns also
[speaker002:] um-hum yeah
[speaker001:] in fact I did one uh Bill the Cat you know from Glenn County
[speaker002:] oh yeah
[speaker001:] that uh was a real good one to do it was it was tough but uh yeah do you have any others or is it just mainly cross-stitch
[speaker002:] um I do mostly that um not very artistic really for like painting and stuff
[speaker001:] oh uh-huh um
[speaker002:] but now I don't know
[speaker001:] yeah uh but I well I'm still trying to get all the DMC colors
[speaker002:] oh really yeah I've got the kits to to put them all in I don't have them all yet
[speaker001:] uh right yeah uh got to counting the other day and uh I think I have what was it two hundred and I got to thinking the money that I've got invested in this
[speaker002:] certainly
[speaker001:] is uh it uh yeah it can add up quick
[speaker002:] oh yeah I just I just keep an inventory of what I currently have and then when I start a a new project I go through and see if I if I you know just buy the colors that I need of what I'm low on
[speaker001:] um-hum right I see well now can I improvise with adding using another color color instead you know what comes close
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] because a lot of them are are similar
[speaker002:] yeah a lot of times you can do that think the I think the pinks there's like forty two different shades of pink
[speaker001:] good grief yeah there's there's lots of pinks and greens
[speaker002:] pinks and greens yeah
[speaker001:] there's lots of shades of greens
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] but the colors are I just love all the different colors
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] they had they had quite a few new ones come out last year that they added to but but you don't have much spare time either
[speaker002:] well not lately I even started a new job and trying to get acclimated there
[speaker001:] oh yes and that does take sometime yes we're trying to get acclimated with the uh with having a baby and there's just he's seven months old
[speaker002:] yeah how old oh yeah
[speaker001:] and just into everything so there's not a spare moment oh but I wouldn't trade it for the world I've been trying to do some bibs for him
[speaker002:] oh yeah
[speaker001:] and uh and and work on his Christmas stocking
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] we missed it the the last year so hopefully this year he'll have one
[speaker002:] yeah well last year he was a little bit young for having one
[speaker001:] uh right right
[speaker002:] probably wouldn't have enjoyed it anyway
[speaker001:] he oh he liked right if it tasted good yeah uh
[speaker002:] you would have but
[speaker001:] uh yeah all he liked was the lights this year so
[speaker002:] oh yeah
[speaker001:] oh well that's neat that uh you like cross-stitch also
[speaker002:] yeah that's that's kind of strange that we got the same call
[speaker001:] yeah uh uh
[speaker002:] it to which oh
[speaker001:] oh I'm sorry go ahead
[speaker002:] no that's okay
[speaker001:] okay uh but yeah I've been doing it for probably about ten years or so
[speaker002:] oh wow no I just started about well five years ago I think
[speaker001:] but but it is peaceful I mean it is relaxing to do once you find the time to do it
[speaker002:] um-hum there's bit off a couple of large projects baby afghans and got one done and I think the other one's gonna the child is gonna be in high school before I get finished
[speaker001:] oh  on that uh is it one of those uh afghans that I've seen in the packages or the the squares large squares
[speaker002:] embarrassing well yeah I just I bought the cloth and the the pattern for it I didn't um I didn't buy the uh I didn't buy a kit
[speaker001:] oh uh-huh well I've seen the afghans in the in the stores that uh are designed for cross-stitch
[speaker002:] uh-huh it's it's that cloth it's called Anne Cloth I think and it has the borders and everything already
[speaker001:] oh okay um-hum yeah those are pretty
[speaker002:] number one turned out just great and the lady said she couldn't believe that they know that I had done it in the colors that they had decorated the uh the nursery and I didn't even know it
[speaker001:] oh that's a coincidence
[speaker002:] she I gave it to her and she said how did you know those are the colors we used I said didn't
[speaker001:] that was a good coincidence
[speaker002:] just worked out that way
[speaker001:] that's great um that uh now I've got some material to do an afghan but I just never did get around to finishing it
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] I like those those are pretty
[speaker002:] yeah Lilly yeah Lilly she she said I said it's for it's for your daughter to use oh no she said I know she doesn't get to touch it she hung it on the wall
[speaker001:] yes my uh grandmother uh made us a couple of quilts for the baby and I was like oh I don't want to mess those up
[speaker002:] um-hum yeah
[speaker001:] oh there just too nice I mean you don't get many hand made quilts anymore
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] oh yeah
[speaker002:] um true
[speaker001:] well I've enjoyed this
[speaker002:] okay
[speaker001:] uh but uh wel l keep up the good um well keep up the cross-stitching
[speaker002:] you too all righty bye bye
[speaker001:] all right thanks bye bye

[speaker001:] Okay.
[speaker002:] Well, are you a fisher person, are you?
[speaker001:] Yes, I love to fish.
[speaker002:] Great. What kind of fishing do you do?
[speaker001:] Well, it's mostly from the rivers and lakes.
[speaker002:] In California?
[speaker001:] And, yes, and from the banks. I don't like to go out on boats.
[speaker002:] Oh.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Well, what kind of fish do they have in your neck of the woods?
[speaker001:] Well, it, uh, down here we usually catch catfish and bass, stripped bass, you know, where I fish.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] And trout up at, uh, Lake Shasta when I go up there.
[speaker002:] Oh.
[speaker001:] But, I like it all except, uh, really I don't, I don't really care that much for the trout. I think I had rather have a catfish than I would a trout [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Well, [LAUGHTER] I, I don't blame you. I grew up in Nebraska and, uh, grew up fish, cat fishing in the Little Blue River and then, uh, we moved to, uh, South Dakota
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] and, uh, did a lot of Walleye fishing on the Missouri River and, uh, now that we are down here, I think a lot of people do some, uh, bass fishing and strip bass fishing but, uh, I still, uh, I am sort of a catfish man at heart.
[speaker001:] See. Well, uh, like in, uh, Iowa and Nebraska, those little bullheads, they look just like catfish, huh?
[speaker002:] Yep. Yeah, they do.
[speaker001:] You know that's what I mean cause I am from Iowa.
[speaker002:] Oh.
[speaker001:] And, uh, you know, we use to catch those little bullheads and that's, they look just like baby catfish.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] You know, uh, did you get to go fishing very often?
[speaker002:] Oh yeah. I like to fish. The only problem is I just moved to Texas so it's been a little over a year now but, uh
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] I, I am not quite sure what residency is for a fishing license here and I, so really I haven't gone fishing for about two years now
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] and it's driving me crazy but, uh, one of these days, I will go over to, uh, Lake Lewisville or, uh, [inhaling] what is it, uh Ray Hubbard, Lake Ray Hubbard and get some fishing in and get it out of my system for a while [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Well, uh, you like to eat them after you catch them? [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Well, yeah, sure.
[speaker001:] Because there's are a lot of people that like to go fishing, but they don't like to eat them.
[speaker002:] Well mo-,
[speaker001:] You know.
[speaker002:] Yeah. Most of the time, uh, if we catch something, we'll take it home and eat it. Uh, and you're right. I mean I like to fish for trout and they are really, uh, uh, good fighters but, uh, if I went to a restaurant that probably wouldn't be the first thing I would order if I had a choice of fish on the menu.
[speaker001:] Yeah, I know. If I go to a restaurant and order fish, it's usually either salmon or, uh, red snapper.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] You know [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] Well, uh, so, do you just, uh, uh, skin your catfish or do you fillet them out, how do you, how do you,
[speaker001:] We, uh, skin them.
[speaker002:] Do you?
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] Okay.
[speaker001:] Yeah, yeah. Just cut their heads off and skin them and then I just, uh, flour them, salt and pepper them and cook them.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] I don't put that corn meal on them.
[speaker002:] No.
[speaker001:] You know, uh, that's the way my mother taught me to fry them so [LAUGHTER],
[speaker002:] Well, that's how we do it too. Uh, although we, uh, use to set some, uh, trout lines out and we've caught, you know, fourteen, fifteen pound catfish and sometimes those are good to, uh, do on a barbecue grill
[speaker001:] Uh-huh. Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] and just leave the skin on and, uh, do it with, uh, butter on, uh, on, on tin foil
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] and then the skin just basically scrapes right off and, uh, wer-, and it really tastes pretty good.
[speaker001:] Yeah. Well you know, I don't think I've ever tried cooking those, uh, catfish quite that big.
[speaker002:] There, uh,
[speaker001:] Uh, most of them are just the small, you know, pan frying ones.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] So, uh,
[speaker002:] Well, I am hoping one of these days I'll have the opportunity to catch a big catfish like that on, uh, a rod and reel but, uh
[speaker001:] Um.
[speaker002:] so far it's just been on, uh, on the trout lines so,
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Wouldn't that be something? [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] It's a thrill when you get a big fish though, isn't it?
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] You know.
[speaker002:] And, uh, well up in, uh, South Dakota on the, in the Missouri River there we've, uh, tied into a few northern pike and, uh, they really, uh, in, in, when the water is cold, they are very slow moving fish, but in the summer time, they'll, uh, give you a run for your money.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh. So when you were, when you did go fishing where did you go? You moved there from where? Nebraska?
[speaker002:] Uh-huh. Yeah.
[speaker001:] So, it was just like the rivers and, uh, the
[speaker002:] In,
[speaker001:] lakes I suppose, huh?
[speaker002:] In Nebraska?
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] Uh, yeah. Most of the time, uh, we just fished, uh, in the river although there were a lot of sand pits and things like that, that we could fish in.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh. Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And a lot of them ended up being close to the river, so if the river every, uh, flooded, you know, then obviously they would dump some catfish and bass and stuff into the into the ponds and the sand pits
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] and so we would do a lot of fishing there too but, uh, South Dakota didn't really have much for,

[speaker001:] okay how do you get your news mostly
[speaker002:] generally I get most of my news from uh the radio and then sometimes um if I've got time I'll be reading the front page of the newspaper and just fall off on the articles that I like
[speaker001:] um-hum um-hum um-hum um-hum
[speaker002:] um also since my wife likes to watch TV sometimes uh just having being just being there I get uh you know I have to watch the news late at night with TV
[speaker001:] um-hum um-hum well I can hardly wait for my morning paper to come
[speaker002:] how about you um-hum
[speaker001:] so that's the first thing I want is the headlines it's really funny because um uh my sister grabs the sports and I grab the headlines
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] but uh and then when five o'clock comes around I just wanna get in the house and turn the TV on to watch the news
[speaker002:] hm
[speaker001:] it's really weird uh I don't stay up late to watch late news because my eyes won't stay up that long but um I love to watch the five o'clock news and I makes me angry when my paper boy's not there on time so I can read my paper
[speaker002:] hm
[speaker001:] uh I do have my radio going most of the day though so about every hour it breaks in and gives me news too you know but
[speaker002:] okay do you get what like one of the talk stations the news stations
[speaker001:] no huh-uh just I just have a channel that has music except for like every hour you know say eight o'clock nine o'clock they come on for just a little bit of the news
[speaker002:] sure right
[speaker001:] but as far as the actual news I get that from from the can you hold on just for a second just a minute
[speaker002:] sure
[speaker001:] hello sir yes I'm sorry to keep you waiting um I was calling from work so and that was a call waiting
[speaker002:] yes okay right sounds it sounds like you uh you like the news a lot more than I do me I figure if it's something really important somebody will tell me about it but uh you know I thing is if if I catch the news all the time it just makes me depressed because they tend to produce a lot of bad news or that's what comes on first
[speaker001:] yeah I get um that's true too
[speaker002:] and uh you know it also late at night you know I don't want like watching the news late at night but my wife's usually up then and so you know I can't go to sleep with the TV on
[speaker001:] um-hum um-hum um-hum
[speaker002:] I uh but you know I I wish I had uh more news on things like that I consider long range things like science and medicine um
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] I'm more I guess I'm more into science and science fiction and uh there's you know not that the news is science fiction but uh uh I'm more interested in that things like uh is NASA ready for another space shot uh you know how hot are they on the trail of a cure for such and such cancer and uh um
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] you know a lot of the news isn't that interesting to me
[speaker001:] yeah well you're right there is a lot of it that's that's just garbage as far as I'm concerned you know
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] but I just like the more or less the the daily news you know
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] just uh especially the weather I like that although they're usually wrong
[speaker002:] me too yeah Georgia here they're usually wrong too we have weird weather systems
[speaker001:] uh-huh but uh like I say as far as that's actually listening to the news it's mostly TV five o'clock to six thirty oh that seems like a long time for news but that's how long it is
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] and uh seems like they have the local news and they have the world news
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] and then uh my morning paper I can hardly wait for it to come
[speaker002:] yeah I'm you know I I just uh I would I I I'm not a morning person so I would begrudge the time it takes me in the morning to catch my morning news
[speaker001:] and um
[speaker002:] I get up just barely in time to get up get ready and get off to work and then at work I have no time to read the news
[speaker001:] oh yeah right once you get to work I wouldn't either huh-uh
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] but I've always been a morning person to get up you know
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] and but I can't stay up late at night to watch the late news so I guess that's why I watch it at five o'clock but anyhow well listen I guess that's about it then
[speaker002:] yeah okay
[speaker001:] it's been nice talking to you Tony
[speaker002:] nice talking to you I'll probably talk to you again I had a friend who was in this and he said that he got calls from the same caller sometimes yeah
[speaker001:] oh really oh well that hasn't happened to me yet so you never know it might this time okay Tony um-hum bye-bye
[speaker002:] that's right take it easy bye-bye

[speaker001:] uh it seems like an unusual subject this time of the year but uh it's it's camping
[speaker002:] really when was the last time you went
[speaker001:] the last time I went camping was about uh in the middle of October and we went up to Lake Bonham and really enjoyed it had a real good time with the family we do an awful lot of camping how about yourself
[speaker002:] well I haven't been in probably about three years and the last time we went was in um well I guess it was it was like hunting season and we went down to like a hunting ground and a lake Lake Sam Rayburn
[speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh yes oh
[speaker002:] which is in East Texas
[speaker001:] very good I bet it's pretty over there
[speaker002:] it is real pretty um let's see do you do a lot of fishing and
[speaker001:] what do you think what kind of camping uh are you talking about do you go out and is camping for you in a motor home or a trailer or do you actually put up a tent the whole bit
[speaker002:] one of the ones that you pull along and then pop up is it pop up
[speaker001:] oh okay so you have yeah
[speaker002:] pop up
[speaker001:] a pop up trailer huh how fun we have a tent
[speaker002:] yeah what do you have a tent
[speaker001:] yes so I guess we really rough it
[speaker002:] really
[speaker001:] and we really enjoy that uh one thing uh I've done all sorts of camping I've I've camped uh in the snow on a glacier I've camped uh basically almost anywhere even to a point where we've had to backpack in and everything you carried in was what you had to use to sustain you for that that camping trip and had to pack it back out
[speaker002:] so you're a serious camper
[speaker001:] well we enjoy it yeah but since I've been married and with a family uh we have to go where there's restrooms and playgrounds and so forth so
[speaker002:] well that makes sense
[speaker001:] we really enjoy it but also while I was growing up we did have a trailer and uh I've camped in in a trailer and in a tent and in in log cabins and so forth too so a lot of different things and yes I to answer your questions earlier yes I we do enjoy fishing and I do go fishing haven't done a whole lot down here we recently moved from the Rocky Mountain area up in uh northern Utah down to here because of work and uh haven't been able to enjoy fishing like I used to up there which which is uh clear water fishing and streams and and rivers uh
[speaker002:] but when y'all went camping is that what you normally I mean what did you normally do
[speaker001:] we normally yeah we did we did a lot of fishing but mainly what we did is we did a lot of hiking and exploring and just going out and seeing what there was to see uh in the area
[speaker002:] I guess probably just where ever you live at then has a lot to do with where what you're gonna do when you go and you do actually camp
[speaker001:] oh yes that's true that's true and
[speaker002:] did you ever like travel around to what's that the little KO KOA KOA camps whenever you ever done that
[speaker001:] no we never did that they although I've stayed in KOA campgrounds uh we've never done that just to go around and camp um personally I when I when we were growing up and when we were uh going camping I thought that was little too structured of a camp ground
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] um you know that was mainly for people in motor homes or or had trailers or so and so on and so forth where you know we really wanted to go camping in a tent and uh KOA is is is geared for the people that have a hook up
[speaker002:] um hum they actually travel from what city to city state to state
[speaker001:] right exactly and uh I started out basically camping when I was when I was in Boy Scouts and we did an awful lot of that as as a Boy Scout group as I mentioned earlier we went into wilderness areas and we camped in the snow in in uh snow caves and
[speaker002:] that's probably where I first started was in Girl Scouts
[speaker001:] and uh all right and you got a lot of that in huh
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] what do you like to do when you go camping
[speaker002:] um well let's see I just I mean I just like to go and normally normally I go with a whole group of friends and we just kind of go and hang out and
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] just do fun stuff roast marshmallows
[speaker001:] enjoy it huh tell scaries or scary stories around the fire and and so on
[speaker002:] yeah or um take a deck of cards if we if we can actually see and um play cards and stuff
[speaker001:] oh yeah you know that uh lot a lot of people I've talked to have said well isn't camping boring don't you get well don't you uh get bored and not have anything to do but I've found out that actually we we really enjoy getting away from the television the telephone
[speaker002:] yeah it's relaxing
[speaker001:] and yes exactly get out getting out and enjoying nature and each each other's uh company when we're out camping
[speaker002:] plus you um kind of makes you appreciate some lot of the things you take for granted
[speaker001:] yeah like like
[speaker002:] running water your hair dryer curling iron
[speaker001:] running water and a and a private bathroom and yes
[speaker002:] well what about your family do your kids and everything like to
[speaker001:] yes they really do they have a great time and like I mentioned uh the we've we've been been camping a couple of times this year and the last time was in October and we went up to Lake Bonham and there is a playground for them and so they have swings and they have slides

[speaker001:] Okay. Uh, far as, you know, crime in the cities, I'm sure, like in yours it's pretty, pretty bad. Uh, probably the biggest thing we've got going now is the robberies and theft and probably murder
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] are the two top ones that we have. How about you?
[speaker002:] Uh, well, I don't actually live in the city, but I'd probably say that's roughly right. I mean crimes against property seem to outnumber crimes against life, but I, I think with the current war on drugs and all this kind of stuff I'd say probably the police department would claim the number one crimes, crimes are probably solicitation of prostitution, uh, and sale of drugs.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh. Prob-, probably right, if you look at it from that stand point.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] What, uh, is there anything, uh, that you particularly are concerned with in your particular area as far as security and that sort of thing?
[speaker002:] Uh, where I live now it's, it's not so bad. I mean I can basically leave my front door unlocked and not have to worry about it. Uh, but I do have friends that live in the city and I think that they get a lot of fallout from this war on drug thing. Uh, just because there are, like, crack houses, you know, on their street and stuff like this.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh. Do you live in a real small town or, or out in the country?
[speaker002:] I live out in the country, yeah.
[speaker001:] How far out from the city, I mean, do you,
[speaker002:] I'm about fifteen miles out.
[speaker001:] About fifteen miles. I live in a little suburb, uh, which is, I guess from Dallas is twelve miles or so
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] but it's pretty congested. We are considered in the country,
[speaker002:] Um.
[speaker001:] but it doesn't really feel like you're in the country.
[speaker002:] Um.
[speaker001:] Our major crimes in our immediate town, uh, is probably robberies, house robberies
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and very few instances of, you know, alcohol, drugs, uh, reported. However, I'm sure they're there.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] But, uh, right now our neighborhood is running about, uh, eighty percent of the homeowners have been robbed,
[speaker002:] Wow.
[speaker001:] sometime during their, their, uh, existence in that neighborhood.
[speaker002:] That's huge.
[speaker001:] And since that time everybody's got some sort of burglar system or, you know, uh, burglar alarms
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] uh, and including the out, uh, the outer perimeter type, uh, devices,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] sensors and things like that. It's cut back, you know, considerably, but it, it just shifts it from our neighborhood to another neighborhood to other neighborhood, so it still, uh, remains city wide, pretty, pretty high.
[speaker002:] Are there, are there any theories on why this is happening?
[speaker001:] Uh, I would say the majority of it's happening during the day, uh, between probably ten in the morning and three in the afternoon.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Most,
[speaker002:] But why? Why is it happening?
[speaker001:] Well, most families, most families are young and both people are working.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] So they're happening during the hours they're gone from work.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Uh, so, uh, I would say that's probably their prime motivation. They'll, they'll stock your house and, uh, look at your pattern and then go from there.
[speaker002:] So they're professionals?
[speaker001:] Uh, they classify most of them as professionals.
[speaker002:] Um.
[speaker001:] Uh, you get a few of them that are a little bit sloppier, uh, just taking, uh, you know, just junk items that they, they can just get, you know, ten to twenty bucks for real quick.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Probably the biggest items that, uh, that you get in our neighborhood, or, would be the high classed automobiles, the, you know, Mercedes, Volvos, things that they can get, you know, big dollars for
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and the jewelry are the major targets, guns, that sort of stuff.
[speaker002:] Um.
[speaker001:] Very few, you know, penny, penny ante stuff.
[speaker002:] Well, what do you think can be done to reduce that sort of crime?
[speaker001:] Well, uh, the police force, for one, I think they could, uh, definitely add to the police force and the type equipment that they use. Uh, it's, oh, right now I think, we are about thirty thousand people and there's only eight officers that patrol for thirty,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] for that amount of people
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] which is not very many.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] And,
[speaker002:] But, I mean, that's going to tend to, I mean it seems to me that sort of approach will tend to simply make the cost of committing the crime slightly higher [ringing], in other words, you've increased the probability of somebody being caught a little bit. The real question is how do you convince people not to commit such crimes in the first place.
[speaker001:] Well, the, course in our particular state, uh, we have the prison overcrowding, whatever, so they're giving the early release, uh,
[speaker002:] Right. They're doing that in our state, too.
[speaker001:] Yeah, and, and it's, I think what they need to do is stop building more jails and start giving stiffer sentences, uh, but for the,
[speaker002:] So you think that would be a deterrent?
[speaker001:] That would be, certainly be a deterrent.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] And, uh, not necessarily, you know, give in to their, uh, human rights desires. You know, if they're overcrowded, just keep cramming them in there till they just suffocate. Uh,
[speaker002:] Well, what about an innocent person who happens to have been found guilty?
[speaker001:] Uh, I think they'd have to go to extra measures to make sure a person's guilty, you know, in a lot of cases. Course, I, I know you can't be a hundred percent foolproof.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] Uh,
[speaker002:] So you'd, you'd rather see it harder to convict somebody.
[speaker001:] I'd rather see it a little bit harder and have a little bit more evidence,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] uh, to convict somebody and then those convicted, especially of, you know, murder and, and, uh, you know, major crimes,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] uh, to reach the life sentences and, you know, death penalties and follow-through with that.
[speaker002:] Huh.
[speaker001:] Uh, especially, you know, in the case of murder
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] uh, I know in my case, I, my wife and daughter were kidnapped,
[speaker002:] Oh, wow.
[speaker001:] during a house robbery back in eighty-five
[speaker002:] Oh, my goodness.
[speaker001:] and we caught, the individuals got caught, we, uh,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] we went through the court system and all that sort of thing and, uh, you know, two counts of kidnapping, uh
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] you know, the, the forty-five to the head, you know, just the, the mental anguish and the whole nine yards
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] uh, you know, the guy only got five years.
[speaker002:] Wow.
[speaker001:] And, you know, he was out within two months because of the parole system. So what, what,
[speaker002:] Did you, did you sue him under the civil system?
[speaker001:] Do what now?
[speaker002:] Did you sue him under the civil system?
[speaker001:] N-, no. I'm not real familiar with that.
[speaker002:] Well, you could probably sue him for mental anguish or something, right,
[speaker001:] Oh.
[speaker002:] and try to get money from him and,
[speaker001:] Well, the insurance companies and all that tried to, tried to go after him and they said, well, you know, he, they're, he has no job, he has nothing, there's nothing that he has that, that you could go after.
[speaker002:] Yeah. Makes you wish that had, uh, still had indentured servitude, for this sort of thing.
[speaker001:] Yeah. Uh, very seld-,
[speaker002:] But they give the guy a job in prison and make him pay his damn debt.
[speaker001:] Yeah. They don't do that here. Course they pay them, but they don't, you don't, you or the insurance companies never see any of that money.
[speaker002:] Yeah, that's too bad.
[speaker001:] And, uh, you know, and they're [ringing], right now they're reluctant to go after him because they're, you know, they're, they're repeat offenders, they, uh, been in jail before [ringing],
[speaker002:] Uh-huh, uh-huh.
[speaker001:] they've been released, you know, several times, which is another,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] uh, deal I hate to see.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] But, uh, you know, basically the guy commits, you know three major crimes and, and, uh,
[speaker002:] Yeah, I, I think that's re-,
[speaker001:] and car theft on top of it,
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] destroys my car,
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] and we're out, you know, uh, you know, fifteen thousand dollars and,
[speaker002:] That's awful [faint].
[speaker001:] you know, the guy gets out in two months and he goes out and commits it again. Fact, he's back in jail now. So, what, what, uh,
[speaker002:] Gives you sympathy for the vigilantes.
[speaker001:] Yeah. What, what deterrent does he really have?
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Yeah, I think in our, in our particular neighborhood, vigilantism is becoming a real, real possibility.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Uh, we've had a couple instances where break ins where the people have actually, you know, shot the people
[speaker002:] Oh, my God.
[speaker001:] and, uh, return offenders have, they've actually waited for them, where they've robbed, you know, particular neighborhood, they'll rob one house, then other people will wait up, you know, and wait for somebody to do something else, try to take it in their own hands.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] Course it doesn't always work out in their favor.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] But, uh, nevertheless,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] I think people are just getting fed up and saying, you know, you can't arrest all of us, you can,
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] you know, you can get some of us, you can't get all of us.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Uh, and we're beginning to see more and more of that.
[speaker002:] And that, that's a deterrent, too. If you think the home owner might be armed, right, and awake
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] here you break in, and you're going to get shot.
[speaker001:] Yeah, that's, I mean that's certainly a possibility in, in, we have had a few cases where the guy has broken in, you know, during the middle of the night and gotten himself shot to death.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] And, uh, it helps for a while
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] but then just another different set of people come in, and most of the people are transients from out, outside of the state.
[speaker002:] Huh.
[speaker001:] Uh, I would say probably eighty percent of them that are caught, they're from places like up in Oklahoma, and Louisiana, Arkansas, you know, across the, the border.
[speaker002:] Wow,
[speaker001:] So, you know, people who don't readily read the newspapers in our town or whatever
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] it's not many from the local communities.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] But, uh, it's a problem, and I, I just, I think that the court systems need to be more accurate in, in, stiffer in their penalties,
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] would be a definite deterrent and,
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] and, uh, giving the, uh, police, uh, agencies a little bit more jurisdiction over what they do when they, when they catch these people.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh. I mean, I, I tend to agree with you. I think, uh, what I would like to see is, number one, completely getting rid of these victimless crimes. Uh, there's no reason to enforce those and spend time and money doing it
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] and, and worry about these things where people are getting hurt. And I think one of the big things that you can do is, to increase deterrence is, uh, if someone is found guilty of a, uh, felony level offense, they lose their citizenship. And they lose their constitutional rights.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] You know, and just a lot of things that we're trying to worry about, you know, protecting these people from, we just don't protect them.
[speaker001:] I know like in my wife's case, they made her feel like the criminal.
[speaker002:] I know, and I think, I think that's ridiculous.
[speaker001:] They, they went to all, all...

[speaker002:] well let's see what have you seen lately
[speaker001:] well uh City Slickers and Star Trek Five
[speaker002:] five
[speaker001:] yeah uh
[speaker002:] yeah you only only five
[speaker001:] yeah I thought I'd better see that one before I go and see six
[speaker002:] well nah didn't need to
[speaker001:] no I found that out
[speaker002:] I just saw the latest one
[speaker001:] how about yourself how is it
[speaker002:] it was fantastic
[speaker001:] oh I can't wait
[speaker002:] yeah it's the the lines in there were just perfect I mean it was classic Trek
[speaker001:] now does the old Star Trek guys meet the new guys
[speaker002:] no huh-uh
[speaker001:] no it's just the old guys still
[speaker002:] yeah it was just a rumor that that would happen this time however the rumor is is that it will happen next happen next time so
[speaker001:] you know that I read in People or somewhere no it was USA Today
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] that they said they weren't gonna do anymore that was it
[speaker002:] um-hum yeah uh
[speaker001:] but
[speaker002:] except that the rumor is is that they still might but it may not include the entire crew and it will be a next generation meets this generation
[speaker001:] huh I'm not sure what the difference in light years between the new generation and the the old guys was
[speaker002:] so I think it's a hundred years
[speaker001:] huh
[speaker002:] somewhere in that range considering that Spock was on an uh you know couple weeks ago and and that the the very first episode of Next Generation they had McCoy
[speaker001:] oh that's right is that right he was a doctor still
[speaker002:] and um-hum yeah well you know he it was like a rear admiral whatever you know and he just kind of hobbled down the halls real slow Vulcans age a lot better
[speaker001:] well yeah he didn't look too bad did he
[speaker002:] huh no huh-uh matter of fact he looks just as about as old and the uh Next Generation as he does in the latest Star Trek imagine that
[speaker001:] yes yeah that's amazing uh did they have some pretty good special effects
[speaker002:] oh excellent excellent special effects but I think the script was you know just incredible compared to the last one
[speaker001:] yeah Five was the script was bad bad bad no I don't why
[speaker002:] well you know why uh William Shatner wrote it
[speaker001:] oh is that right
[speaker002:] and even worse he directed it
[speaker001:] uh Leonard Leonard it its Nimoy he does a lot better
[speaker002:] oh yeah he in fact uh he didn't direct this one he produced this one but he directed the one before uh I think Star Trek Four something like that
[speaker001:] In Search of Spock or no Journey Home I think that
[speaker002:] yeah um-hum
[speaker001:] are you're a real life Trekkie
[speaker002:] well I think so
[speaker001:] I really like them I I wouldn't go so far as being a Trekkie but
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] well I've gone to you know one for real live Trek Convention but
[speaker001:] oh really
[speaker002:] yeah I saw James Doohan you know the guy that plays uh Scotty
[speaker001:] huh did you get to talk to him
[speaker002:] no not in a crowd like that huh-uh it was like uh want an autograph wanna stand in line for about four hours it was a pretty crowded place
[speaker001:] it was crowded no yeah wow huh they have some good management principals in this New Generation
[speaker002:] oh yeah yeah I it's it's kind of funny I uh was reading in uh a book uh trying to think I can't quite remember the name of the book but it was it was saying don't do Star Trek management style and they were referring to you know Captain Kirk every time he left the Enterprise everything went to hell
[speaker001:] oh
[speaker002:] and and nothing got righted until he got back up on the ship
[speaker001:] right and he kind of was a cowboy type too
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] he made all the decisions but uh Jean Luke does more of a a committee type of management
[speaker002:] um-hum yeah um it's definitely a lot better a lot more realistic really
[speaker001:] what other movies have you seen
[speaker002:] uh saw The Addams Family last week
[speaker001:] oh how was that
[speaker002:] it was pretty good uh there were a few things different than the old series but on the on the whole it was pretty similar and a lot of fun
[speaker001:] lots of little funny spots huh
[speaker002:] oh yeah yeah
[speaker001:] did they have Thing and
[speaker002:] oh yes in fact Thing has a big much bigger role than he does in the series I mean you know there is lots of areas where Thing saves the day
[speaker001:] really
[speaker002:] and he runs around a lot
[speaker001:] how did I've always wondered how he gets around
[speaker002:] uh you know just finger hopping
[speaker001:] but he's in a box right
[speaker002:] no no no in fact it's funny he never did does come in out of a box I don't think and he's just kind of walking around
[speaker001:] didn't he used to
[speaker002:] not really he was always in the box before
[speaker001:] oh well that's yeah that's okay yeah that's what I was thinking
[speaker002:] yeah

[speaker001:] How do you feel about the Viet Nam war?
[speaker002:] Huh, well, um, you know, I guess it's pretty deep feelings, uh, I just, uh, went back and rented, uh, the movie, what is it, GOOD MORNING VIET NAM
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] and, uh.
[speaker001:] Yeah, I saw that as well.
[speaker002:] Got that, uh, uh, some insight there, to, to kind of help me put together the feelings. I really appreciated the, the whole, uh, English class where the, uh, the, uh, fellow just wouldn't do it, you know, the guy's gouging, gouging your eyes out, what are you going to do?
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] You know, what for him to finish me off [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] And, uh, it, it was, uh, good to remember the, uh, that, that kind of Asian philosophy
[speaker001:] Uh-huh. Well, were
[speaker002:] that, uh.
[speaker001:] you ever in Viet Nam or,
[speaker002:] No, no, I was kind of an in-between, uh, finally drew a high draft number, and you?
[speaker001:] Um, I was much too young, I was born in sixty-seven, so.
[speaker002:] Oh [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Um, you know, both my, well, both my brothers were, um, draft age, but neither of them wound up going over, which, I think they were very happy for.
[speaker002:] Well, I, personally, uh, you know, uh, I just went in limbo. I had a passport and was ready to go
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] or um, out of the country or
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] join special forces, either one.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] I mean, I just didn't know. So, uh.
[speaker001:] Well, um, so well do you, do you feel that it was worth what we did over there?
[speaker002:] Um, yeah, just a second.
[speaker001:] Okay.
[speaker002:] [Talking] Okay. Sure, now. Well, Mark, um, what was that again?
[speaker001:] Um, do you think, I mean, do you think, our invest-, the investment in lives and money was worth it?
[speaker002:] No, not, not really.
[speaker001:] I totally agree with that. Um.
[speaker002:] Um.
[speaker001:] What, what effects do you think it's had on our country?
[speaker002:] Downside. Um, uh, well, the says we should, uh, go into the grief that, that's there and, you know, presidents have always avoided that
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] as a country. So it's pretty serious, really, you know, lot of things that aren't being addressed.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh. I think you know, that's pretty typical that, of the entire, entire involvement over that, you know, that nothing was really addressed, it was-, it wasn't, you know, it was never we, we announced that we were going to war, it was such a gradual and subtle, you know
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] thi-, um, you know increasement of, of force that.
[speaker002:] Gulf of Tonkin, uh, resolution and was it a dolphin or a torpedo. [LAUGHTER] You remember that?
[speaker001:] I vaguely remember we, um, we had a, we had a, um, spy ship torpedoed or something.
[speaker002:] Yeah, yeah, only only it was foggy and finally President Johnson said, well, they're weren't really sure whether it was a dolphin or a torpedo.
[speaker001:] Oh [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Isn't that something?
[speaker001:] Uh-huh. Um, so, um, do, do, do you think that like, uh, um, for example like in, in this past war, in the Persian Gulf war
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] that, uh, that you see, it seemed to me that, that Bush was going, going to extraordinary lengths to, um, you know, prepare the country for war.
[speaker002:] Hey Mark
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] I've got to go, um.
[speaker001:] Okay.
[speaker002:] We'll see you. I guess our five minutes are up according to me. Are they to you?
[speaker001:] Uh, I wasn't really keeping count. But I guess, good-bye.
[speaker002:] Yeah, okay, bye-bye.
[speaker001:] Bye.

[speaker001:] Um,
[speaker002:] Hi [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] one thing you know that I always think about when I think of public education cause I went through the public, um, school system of Boston,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and, uh, I always felt that I graduated high school and I still didn't even I, I couldn't put together a map of the United State.
[speaker002:] Um.
[speaker001:] You know what I mean.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] An yet I felt that I got a good education and I, I did well in school but you tell me to name, you know, five continents an I,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] couldn't do it. I just felt like there were some real basics that are missing from education,
[speaker002:] Uh.
[speaker001:] and the people are, are leaving school not even knowing some common sense things.
[speaker002:] Yeah. One, well, talking about public education, um, I'm, we're doing a proposal,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] it's, we're doing it at N C State,
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] we're trying to improve the computer science curriculum,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] So that's kind of in a higher level [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] So it's interesting that you chose that topic [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Yeah, um, did you do through a public school system or private?
[speaker002:] Yeah, well, I went through private an until ninth grade.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh, did you notice a big difference?
[speaker002:] Oh, yeah, a big difference.
[speaker001:] Like in what sense?
[speaker002:] Well, um, in, uh, public schools I guess there wer-, there are a lot of, of, you know, people can take lower level courses an get away with learning nothing.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] But, um, private school you couldn't do that,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] you had to learn.
[speaker001:] Yeah, I work in a temporary agency an they're people that come in, you know, every day to fill out an application,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and they'll have to bring somebody with them, and they will show that they completed, um, four year of high school, yet when it comes to even answering the questions on a simple application,
[speaker002:] Uh.
[speaker001:] they can't read enough to be able to fill out the answers by themselves,
[speaker002:] That's bad.
[speaker001:] it's just incredible.
[speaker002:] Yeah, our State cut a whole bunch of a, I think it's ten million dollars out of the school budget.
[speaker001:] Really.
[speaker002:] So they're making all kind of cuts in college people cannot, I mean, the teachers can't make tests any more, and th-, the library canceling all of it's subscriptions.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] It's pretty sorry.
[speaker001:] I know, um, they, uh, I forget I think it's, um, some place in New York because they're having budget problems,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] they're closing the libraries. I mean they're not getting rid of any of the sports,
[speaker002:] Uh.
[speaker001:] or anything like that, they're not cutting in any other corner they're closing the libraries. That to me shows a little, uh, switch in priorities.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] You know. So do you go to college right now? Are yo-,
[speaker002:] Yeah, it's my last year [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] You're a, so you're a senior now.
[speaker002:] Yeah, I'm working on my projects trying to graduate [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Oh, good for you.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] That's great, um, is, is N C University is that, uh, State,
[speaker002:] N C State.
[speaker001:] What did you say?
[speaker002:] N C State.
[speaker001:] N C State, that's a State University then.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] I see. And you're from there also?
[speaker002:] Well, yeah, I was, uh, I was born in Wylie and then I lived in,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] most of my life.
[speaker001:] I see.
[speaker002:] And now I'm back here going to school.
[speaker001:] Well, pretty soon it's going to get to the point where no one is going to be able to afford to send their kids to college or to do go to college.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] It's just a outrageously expensive.
[speaker002:] Luckily state [LAUGHTER] is one of the cheap ones.
[speaker001:] Oh is it.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Well, still though I mean, you know, thousands of dollars,
[speaker002:] Yeah, state's not that bad [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Oh, well, that's good.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] That's good. I went to a private university and, um, I don't know I look back now and I, I think that I probably would have done it differently if I, um, you know, could do it over again.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] But, um, I have a lot of friends that went to state schools or didn't even go to school, some, some of them, and I still feel like they came out knowing just as much as I did.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] I really do and that's probably a pretty sad thing to say but, um,
[speaker002:] Yeah,
[speaker001:] I don't know, I,
[speaker002:] Where did you go?
[speaker001:] I what?
[speaker002:] Where did you go?
[speaker001:] I went to Brandice University.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] It's in Massachusetts. And, um, I really felt like I've been working now for about four years,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and I, I feel like what I've learned working is a hundred times more valuable then what learned in school.
[speaker002:] Oh.
[speaker001:] And I know that I'm drawing a lot of what I learned in school, you know, I, I probably just subconsciously rely a lot on, on art. But, um, I don't know my sister's a principal at a school, and one thing she's trying to instill in kids, um, besides just reading and writing are just some, the golden rules,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] she calls them just some basics about, um, you know, you don't take what's not yours,
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] uh, and if you want to, you know, you don't touch anybody else unless you have their permission. Like no hitting, you know,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] no pulling hair or anything like that, and, uh, the school that she's in is a, um, it's basically for minorities, um, there's a large minority population. And, um, she's really noticed that even some of the teachers that work there I think they don't value that type of student as much as you get,
[speaker002:] Yeah that's,
[speaker001:] in some.
[speaker002:] sorry. That they, that they like pick on th-, the advanced students and pay more attention to them,
[speaker001:] Yeah, it's true.
[speaker002:] ignore the others.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] And I don't know if it makes them feel better I mean the do teachers get, I mean personally I would get more satisfaction out of taking someone that wasn't as successful.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] And seeing what they could do verses somebody that did excel in, in areas and just watching them get better, you know.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] That's not much of a challenge.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] That's true.
[speaker001:] But ar-, do you have any ideal what you're going into when you graduate.
[speaker002:] Um, graduate school [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Oh yeah.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Do you know where you're going?
[speaker002:] I think I'm going to Chappel Hill.
[speaker001:] Where's that?
[speaker002:] That's in Chappel Hill [LAUGHTER]. That's the name,
[speaker001:] Oh is that North Carolina?
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Oh, okay.
[speaker002:] Never heard of the, uh, Tarheels?
[speaker001:] No, I don't know that area.
[speaker002:] The A C C Tarheels, U N C?
[speaker001:] I just don't know it.
[speaker002:] Oh, uh, [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] I don't get down there very often.
[speaker002:] They won the final four,
[speaker001:] Oh, really,
[speaker002:] in boy's basket ball.
[speaker001:] well the way I pick the final four was, um, by the state that had the warmest climate.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] So that's how I chose all mine, so you can tell that I really didn't have that much to do with any of it.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] But, so obviously you're into education.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] If you can be going, my husband went to, is in graduate school actually right now.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] And, uh, I don't know I give you a lot of credit.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] I couldn't do it, I,
[speaker002:] Yeah, I know.
[speaker001:] I couldn't wait to graduate and have,
[speaker002:] Oh.
[speaker001:] it be all over.
[speaker002:] I can't wait to graduate [LAUGHTER] either,
[speaker001:] I know.
[speaker002:] now. I've got all of this stuff due oh wow.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Overloaded.
[speaker001:] Yeah, I kind of know what you mean. Well, it was really nice talking to you.
[speaker002:] All right.
[speaker001:] Okay. Good luck.
[speaker002:] All right, thank you.
[speaker001:] All righty, take care.
[speaker002:] All right, bye.
[speaker001:] Bye-bye.

[speaker001:] Okay.
[speaker002:] Okay.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] I forgot all about that that it had to be pressed.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Um, but anyway, so, so as far as, w-, we really, we don't want to get in the habit of watching a lot of T V
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] because we both were raised, you know, that way, you know, where our parents sort of stuck us in front of a T V to be the baby-sitter.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And we just don't want that. We want more communication and interaction, you know, amongst us as a family. And we both like sports, so we figured, well what, what better way to get out and, you know, be together as a family
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] and also, you know, have it be good for you. And plus, we like, we both like to cook, so, you know, that's something we spend time together too, is, you know, cooking and, uh, preparing meals and stuff. So, uh, but as far as that [LAUGHTER], that's about all we've discussed as far as for family.
[speaker001:] Really, okay, well see, I'm the third oldest of twelve children. .
[speaker002:] Oh my gosh.
[speaker001:] So like I said, I, and I'm only twenty-one. I'll be twenty-two next month. So there's nine that are younger than me. My youngest sister is five.
[speaker002:] Oh yeah.
[speaker001:] And like I sa-, I don't have any children. I'm just engaged, and I'm getting married in October, and we haven't discussed this at all [LAUGHTER]. Um.
[speaker002:] Yeah, long way down the road, right.
[speaker001:] Yeah, exactly. But, um, now I've noticed that like, while I'm at college, and when I go home, my bro-, you know, my, I'm really close to the younger ones, and, um, like, when, when, like when I do go home they enjoy just laying around me, you know, like if we do watch T V at night, they just like enjoy just, like laying on top of me or something.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] They like that.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] But, um, as far as that goes, like we play games, I play like Old Maid and Fish with them, and w-, we play board games, and when it's ni-, like I'm from Pennsylvania, so when it's nice out, we go outside, and we like to play like kick ball and softball and stuff. So.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] We do a lot of that. And in the summer everyone is like, I think there's like seven of us still at home, and all seven are in a sport, like also the girls are in softball and the boys are in baseball. So all summer we live on hamburgers and hot dogs and sports, that's it, you know.
[speaker002:] Well do you, do you, so you go, if you're, if you're not doing any kind of sport thing you go to one of your sisters' or brothers'
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] sporting events.
[speaker001:] Yes.
[speaker002:] And sort of like be there with them.
[speaker001:] Right, yeah, we go and watch.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Well, that's, that's good, too, I mean, as far as entering, I mean, you're, you're participating, but you're not, you know.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] I mean at least you're encouraging them on and stuff and that's,
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] because, um, even if our kids, you know, get into sports that we're really not interested in, I don't, I want them, you know, to know that we're still there
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] so to speak, as a family.
[speaker001:] Well, it's funny because, um, well, my mom and dad both were kind of athletic. They both grew up on a farm, but although, you know, it wasn't them playing I notice like whenever I was playing softball and such, my mom and dad got into it more than I did. I mean, they'd be in the audience screaming and yelling, you know, so.
[speaker002:] Yeah. Cheering you on and stuff.
[speaker001:] A lot of times the parents get into it just as much as, as the kids, and I found, like a lot of times like when we went on to tournaments and stuff, it was really funny because the crowds would like get into argu-, you know, get into fights, who can scream louder, and you know, everything. So it's really pretty funny to see my parents get into it, and they're not really even participating.
[speaker002:] Yeah, well, that, that would be fun. Boy, so you, you have a lot of experience as far as, you know, different ways a family can interact and, and do things together,
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] as far as, go-, twelve.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] But it's so, if you're not, i-, what if, do people go off in their own little groups with that many? I mean, did like some people go to their rooms and,
[speaker001:] Yeah, it's, um, the, the one down thing about having that many people in our family is you real-, we really don't have any privacy when we're at home, because you couldn't possibly have a house with twelve bedrooms.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] But, um, like I say, you know, I'm twenty, I'll be twenty-two next month, and I'm closer to the younger kids than I am the ones my own age. And that's, I think,
[speaker002:] Huh.
[speaker001:] that's because we-, the ones that are older all have their own little thing to do, and the younger kids are at home, and I like to spend time with them. So.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] I don't, I don't, you know,
[speaker002:] But when you were growing up and they weren't, and the younger ones weren't around, what did you do?
[speaker001:] We were all pretty close when we were younger.
[speaker002:] Oh, I see. But now that they've all sort of moved off,
[speaker001:] Yeah, now that we're getting older, people are get-, you know, each one of us are going our own direction.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] So, do you think, even, I mean, what did you do when you were younger, did you go do the board games and stuff, you still did what you do now.
[speaker001:] Oh, yeah. And, um, we, you know, we had blocks and stuff, and [LAUGHTER] we just did, we would make, like in the winter when it wa-, we couldn't go outside because of the snow and stuff
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] we, uh, [LAUGHTER] we would, um, [LAUGHTER] clear out our basement, and we would like, do, just, even stupid things, like we try hurtling our couches and stuff. You know, and.
[speaker002:] Hurling.
[speaker001:] Yeah, we would just run and jump over the couches.
[speaker002:] Oh, hurtle, oh, okay.
[speaker001:] Yeah, to see who could jump over, you know. We just made up our own stupid little games. And like hide and seek, well, we have a, a bigger house than a lot, you know, our house isn't the average small one. So we could like play hide and go seek in our house and even stuff like that.
[speaker002:] So you, you had a lot of games and things you played
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] even when you were kids with the ones that you,
[speaker001:] Well see, they're, um, we're all, like we're all pretty close together. Like, m-, my sister that's closest to me, we're only fourteen months apart.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] So there was always, there was never just one alone, you know.
[speaker002:] Yeah, no, not real spread in age.
[speaker001:] Right. So we were all pretty close where we, we always had a buddy to play with,
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] you know.
[speaker002:] Gosh, twelve, is that, is that pretty common up there, uh, in,
[speaker001:] No, no, not at all.
[speaker002:] Oh, okay.
[speaker001:] Not at all [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] I don't meet, I mean, I don't speak with many people that come from families that large any more. I mean
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] my, my husband's mother came from a family of thirteen, but, I mean, that's his mother
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] you know, and, and their Catholic *they're and, I mean that's,
[speaker001:] Well, yeah, I'm Catholic [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Well that's it then, I think, probably maybe that, that.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] But, I mean, do you see yourself having thirteen kids
[speaker001:] No, not at all.
[speaker002:] or twelve kids?
[speaker001:] Not at all.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] But, see, um, when I was younger I used to say that I would like to have five. Well, I've even cut that down now, and, um, but to me five wasn't even a lot, because I was just so used to twelve.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] You know.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] But it's so expensive, man.
[speaker001:] But, yeah, it's so, it would be really hard now to have twelve children.
[speaker002:] I would think for your parents it would be, it would still be hard even nowadays, I mean, just to raise twelve kids.
[speaker001:] Well,
[speaker002:] Would be, shoosh.
[speaker001:] Well, okay, well like my oldest brother, he's, he's twenty-four, and he put himself through college, and, um, there's a sister older than me, she's still living at home, but she works
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] you know, and I think she even gives mom and dad a little bit, you know, of rent money.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] And I'm putting myself through college, and like I'm getting married in October, and my fianc3e and I are paying for most of the wedding. And then, then my brother right behind me, he moved out, and he has an apartment, and he works, and then the next one down is in the Marines, and he's out of the house. So, it's kind of like they don't, you know.
[speaker002:] Well sometimes I think maybe the larger families create more independence in the children though, you know. I mean
[speaker001:] I, I think they do.
[speaker002:] you don't expect anything because there is not enough to go around for everybody
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] so you, you kind of have your own independence on going out and getting it yourself,
[speaker001:] Exactly.
[speaker002:] if you really want it.
[speaker001:] Like, uh, well, I find it a lot when I'm up here at college because I've always had a bank account, I've always had my own checking account since I was in like tenth grade.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] You know, I would work in the summer, and there's a lot of kids up here that would have no idea how to even do a checkbook or, you know,
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] to, to manage money. Like my roommate's [LAUGHTER] laughing at, you know, at me, you know, because their schooling's paid for.
[speaker002:] Or manage money or know, yeah, know, you know, how to get, how to even go about getting money.
[speaker001:] Yeah, uh-huh.
[speaker002:] You know, how to get a job or you know, just what, you know, what, when you get a job, what your responsibility is.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] Are you going to blow all that money, how easy it is to blow money you earn.
[speaker001:] Yeah. And see, and then, my mom and dad, like whenever, like we would go out and we would get a summer job, and then we would start blowing money, and my mom said, well that's stupid for you to be blowing money. She goes, okay if your going to blow your money on other things, she goes, you can just pay for your life insurance. So then we, when we all graduated from hi-, college, from high school,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] we all got, we're still, like I'm still covered under my mom and dad's life insurance because I'm still in school, but I have my own policy, too. So I had a poli-, you know, my mom and dad got it set up, you know, you know, helped me to get it and everything, and I have my own policy, and then I pay for my own life insurance too.
[speaker002:] Wow,
[speaker001:] And then
[speaker002:] you've really got responsibilities.
[speaker001:] And then, like, my mom and dad, because there's so many of us, and because of the way the laws are, you know, now, if we want to drive, we have to pay for our own insurance on our cars.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Because my mom said, that's silly to let one of the older one's drive it, if we were in a wreck, you know, you can be sued for anything now. And she said that's really not fair to the younger kids. If we were careless and was in a wreck and they got sued and then they can take everything away from my mom and dad, and the little kids would have nothing. And I, I agree with her. You know, I just, I don't know.
[speaker002:] Yeah. Wh-,
[speaker001:] So if, you know, if we want to drive, we pay our own insurance, and.
[speaker002:] So really, I think, sometimes there's an advantage, I mean, sometimes it's good to have a bigger family because it does make you more independent.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] It makes you know that you can't take anything for granted
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] that when you get something you're lucky to get it, so to speak
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] you know. So, um, I don't know, sometimes, but now, it, it is hard, I can imagine, on your parents, you know...

[speaker001:] Do you want to start? G-,
[speaker002:] Yeah, I'm trying to think what I've seen lately. I me-, we-, well we just finished watching, uh, TEENAGE MUTANT NINJA TURTLES on tape, you know [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Did you watch DANCES WITH WOLVES, did you [static] see the movie?
[speaker002:] Yeah, we, we've seen that, yeah.
[speaker001:] Did you like it?
[speaker002:] Yeah, it was great, have you seen it?
[speaker001:] I thought it was very well done.
[speaker002:] Yeah, I, um,
[speaker001:] How about GHOST?
[speaker002:] We, we saw, an, we liked it but, you know, I didn't think it was as good as all the, uh, hype was about it.
[speaker001:] Right, I feel the same way about that too. It was okay.
[speaker002:] Yeah, I don-, I, I couldn't see it worth getting a nomination for, uh, best picture.
[speaker001:] No, no. And, uh, wh-, let's see, uh, the most recent ones that I've seen are those two, GHOST and, uh, DANCES WITH WOLVES, but I rent, uh, uh, videos, do you?
[speaker002:] Yeah, yeah, and so we just,
[speaker001:] You, you watch many?
[speaker002:] Uh, it depends, um, you know, it depends on wh-,
[speaker001:] Do you like the classics like, uh, GONE WITH THE WIND and, uh, you know the older movies.
[speaker002:] I'd like to see those, I keep, you know, um, you know, there's like three movies that I, I keep telling myself that I should see one of these, you know, some day that I haven't seen, you know, that, that are classics, you know. Because I've never seen CITIZEN KANE,
[speaker001:] Yeah, that was good.
[speaker002:] and never seen, I've never seen CASABLANCA and never seen GONE WITH THE WIND.
[speaker001:] I think I've seen most of Humphrey Bogart's movies, but, in, in, you know a long time ago,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and, uh, like the MALTESE FALCON and all those, uh, uh,
[speaker002:] Oh, I, I def-, we saw part of THE AFRICAN QUEEN on, on T V a couple of years ago,
[speaker001:] Yeah, that was good, yeah.
[speaker002:] and I've, I've alwa-, I've been wanting to see all of it but we just, you know, we walk into the video store and we're like well why don't we go see this now [LAUGHTER], so.
[speaker001:] Yeah, yeah, it's true.
[speaker002:] But, um, I think-, one of the movies we saw recently, we saw, uh, MISERY.
[speaker001:] Oh, I didn't see that one.
[speaker002:] That was good, um,
[speaker001:] Really.
[speaker002:] oh, it was great.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] And it, you think, you know, for a Stephen, you know, it because it was by Stephen King it would be really gory but there's only one, well there's a couple scenes, at, at the end there's, there is, you know some blood and everything and there's one really bad scene where it's, I mean, there's not blood but it's pretty graphic [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] But it's, um, it's a really good movie, um.
[speaker001:] Really, is that the one where, uh, the guy gets captured by that women?
[speaker002:] Yeah, yeah,
[speaker001:] Okay, yeah.
[speaker002:] he's a writer and, um, she's his biggest fan and she's also [LAUGHTER],
[speaker001:] Yeah, right.
[speaker002:] a little, a little on the nutso side.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh. Did you see PACIFIC HEIGHTS?
[speaker002:] No, we haven't, um,
[speaker001:] I saw that one, that one wasn't that great either.
[speaker002:] Oh, it wasn't?
[speaker001:] Well I didn't think so, no.
[speaker002:] Oka-, I, I got, I heard like mixed reviews, um, of that, we s-,
[speaker001:] How about SILENCE OF THE LAMBS?
[speaker002:] That's, that's on our list of things to see [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] I know, I, I wanted to see, I, I was curious if you had seen it and that, uh,
[speaker002:] N-, our big thing is, um, you know, mo-, movie prices up here I think it's like six bucks now in the theaters,
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] you know. So it's like, you know, a lot of things we try to catch like at the dollar theater or matinees and then a lot of other stuff we just wait until it comes out on tape.
[speaker001:] That's us too, yeah, yeah true. I know, it's too bad that they've gotten so expensive.
[speaker002:] Ye-, well one movie we saw in the last couple of months that we really enjoyed was, uh, EDWARD SCISSORHANDS.
[speaker001:] Oh, really.
[speaker002:] Yeah, have you seen that?
[speaker001:] No.
[speaker002:] Oh, it was great [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Really.
[speaker002:] Yeah it was,
[speaker001:] I thought it was kind of maybe for kids more, than ad-,
[speaker002:] No, no, it's, um, it's an odd film and it's really interesting that, I like the director a lot, um, a guy named Tim Burton.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Did you ever see the movie BEETLEJUICE?
[speaker001:] Uh, part of it, I,
[speaker002:] Oh, ok-,
[speaker001:] I never really watched the whole thing.
[speaker002:] Oh, se-, yeah, well if you, if you liked BEETLEJUICE you'll probably like EDWARD SCISSORHANDS, if you didn't like BEETLEJUICE you'll probably won't like EDWARD SCISSORHANDS.
[speaker001:] Oh, really.
[speaker002:] Yeah, it's, um, Burton's kind of, uh, e-, he's, a very odd, odd man but he's, I think he's very interesting and, uh, I liked those two movies of his a lot.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] He did BATMAN also, which, you know [breathing] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Yeah, that was pretty good, though, really.
[speaker002:] It was good, but I mean, he was, um,
[speaker001:] When you think of what it takes to make some of those kind of movies, you know.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] You see it for, uh, you know a couple of hours or an hour and it really, there's a lot in it when you look at the scenery and the cars,
[speaker002:] Oh, yeah, oh.
[speaker001:] and all the different stuff like that, you know.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Whose your favorite actress or actor?
[speaker002:] Um, don't really know, I like Costner a lot but, uh,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] I'm a big, I'm a big baseball fan so, you know, after BULL DURHAM and FIELD OF DREAMS, you know,
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] Um, although, you know,
[speaker001:] That was good, I saw that movie too. That was very good.
[speaker002:] Which one?
[speaker001:] FIELD OF DREAMS.
[speaker002:] Yeah, FIELD OF DREAMS was good, um, and, I, I think, I liked the other movies he's done. NO WAY OUT was really good and,
[speaker001:] Oh, yeah, yeah.
[speaker002:] did you ever see SILVERADO?
[speaker001:] SILVERADO, uh, who, who was that with?
[speaker002:] Um, let's see. Danny Glover, Scott Glen, Kevin Kline, um, Brian Dennehy, Jeff Goldblum's in. Uh, John Kreas is in it if you don't blink.
[speaker001:] That, the nam-, the, the title sounds familiar, I'm trying to thi-,
[speaker002:] It was, it was a big western, I mean, I think Roseanne Arquett was in it too, another one that if you blink you'd miss her. Uh, it was, and I think it was like a three hour movie or two and a half hours, and, and it was one of those ones that could have been four hours if they hadn't cut a lot out.
[speaker001:] Oh, really.
[speaker002:] Um, but it was, it was really good [LAUGHTER]. Um,
[speaker001:] I, I might have seen part of that because the name sounds familiar although I wo-, I would remember, I think in, with him in it.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] How about REVENGE, did you see that with him?
[speaker002:] No, I didn't, is that any good?
[speaker001:] With, uh, Anthony Quinn. I thought it was, I like everything he's done so far.
[speaker002:] Oh, okay.
[speaker001:] You know, it's, uh, one of those movies that it's not a great movie but it was okay.
[speaker002:] Yeah, we were in the video store today and somebody was recommending it to somebody. You know the, the people who run the video store was recommending it to somebody else.
[speaker001:] Yeah it was, it was not a bad movie.
[speaker002:] Huh, well, I'll have to catch it one of these days. You sa-, you, you said you seen NO WAY OUT?
[speaker001:] Yeah, that was excellent.
[speaker002:] Yeah, that was very good. Um, he was in THE UNTOUCHABLES, too.
[speaker001:] Now that's another one I wanted to see. Tha-, in fact, that was advertised not too long ago.
[speaker002:] Yeah, it was on, um,
[speaker001:] Cable?
[speaker002:] no, it was on one of the networks, I think last weekend.
[speaker001:] Okay, I know I saw, yeah, something about it.
[speaker002:] Uh, or two weeks ago. Yeah, I, um, I wish, I, I mean I'd seen it when, when, you know, it was originally in the theaters and, um, I saw it, you know, I saw part of it again.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] I mean I like, you know, I like Costner, I like Sean Connery, and, uh, there's this one, there's this one actor, it's really silly that I enjoy him a lot but I, I've really enjoyed him in everything I've seen him in, a guy named Charles Martin Smith.
[speaker001:] I don't know him.
[speaker002:] Um, you've probably seen him and just, an, you know, oh, that's who the guy is.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Do you remember, did you ever see AMERICAN GRAFFITI?
[speaker001:] No, I, I don't think so.
[speaker002:] Oh. Did you ever see the movie STAR MAN.
[speaker001:] Yes.
[speaker002:] Okay, in STAR MAN, he was the guy chasing after, um, Jeff Bridges and Karen Allen, or Nancy Allen.
[speaker001:] Okay, okay.
[speaker002:] You know, w-, short nerdy guy with glasses.
[speaker001:] Yeah, yeah.
[speaker002:] He's, he's just, I, I don't know why but he's always a lot of fun in every movie he's in. He was in the UNTOUCHABLES. He was the accountant [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Oh, oh I know who you mean.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] He was in, uh, uh, HONEY DON'T SHRINK THE KIDS, wasn't he?
[speaker002:] No, no, you're thinking of Rick Moranis. He looks like Rick Moranis but he's not [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Oh, okay, [LAUGHTER] se-, all right, yeah, that's the one I was thinking of. But I have, I've seen quite a few movies, I, I enjoy them. I think that, uh, it's, it's kind of like, uh, good entertainment.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] An, uh, an escape type of thing.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] How about some of the ads, do you go by the ads when you look at them, or the reviews? Do they influence you a lot.
[speaker002:] Uh, a little of, e-, e-, a review usually won't make me go see a movie I hadn't already wanted to see.
[speaker001:] Yeah. Did you see GOODFELLAS?
[speaker002:] No, it's o-, uh, I want to see it.
[speaker001:] That wa-, that was pretty good. Um, and,
[speaker002:] Um, we want to see GODFATHER PART THREE also but my, my girlfriend's seen part one and part two although she saw them years ago,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] but I've never seen either of the first, you know, of the, of the GODFATHER movies so, we're probably going to like rent those some time and then try to see GODFATHER PART THREE somewhere.
[speaker001:] I was just going to say, th-, you should see those, fi-, uh, first if you can.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] If y-, if you read the book it's, uh, even better. The book was excellent.
[speaker002:] Oh, okay, I haven't,
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] never read it.
[speaker001:] and, uh, I was a little disappointed in the third on-, it's GODFATHER THREE. It was not bad but, I expected more, I think.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh. We just rented, um, a couple weeks ago, a movie called THE FRESHMAN, with, um, it's got Matthew Broderick in it and, um, uh, Marlon Brando. And Brando like does a parody of the character he played in THE GODFATHER.
[speaker001:] Oh, really.
[speaker002:] Um, yeah, it's, it's one of the reasons why, you know THE GODFATHER's been on our minds lately. Um, but, uh,
[speaker001:] [Throat clearing].
[speaker002:] there's a bunch of scenes from, uh, uh, from THE GODFATHER that's used because Matthew Broderick's going to film school. And, uh, in his classes they're using, there's a bun-, they're running a bunch of scenes from THE GODFATHER and then he's running into Marlon Brando who is playing, you know, this Maf-, you know this, uh, organized crime head.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] So, it's um, it was, it was a fun movie.
[speaker001:] How about Tom Cruise, do you like his stuff?
[speaker002:] Uh.
[speaker001:] COCKTAILS, or, uh,
[speaker002:] I liked RAINMAN, I thought, I thought it was interesting that he was doing som-,
[speaker001:] Oh, yeah, that was good, I liked RAINMAN, too.
[speaker002:] Yeah, well I'm, being from Baltimore, of course, I'm a big Barry Levinson fan since, uh, he, he's, you know, he's done a bunch of Baltimore movies.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Um, n-, Barry Levinson did, um, DINER and TINMAN, and AVALON which are all set in Baltimore.
[speaker001:] Yeah, they sound familiar. I probably saw parts of those. You know, a lot of times I'll wa-, I'll start watching a movie and I'm tired and it,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] next thing you know, it's, it's especially if there's commercial in it [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Ye-, we-,
[speaker001:] and then the titles might sound familiar but I really don't know what they're all about.
[speaker002:] Ye-, of the three of those, DINER's probably the best. I mean, they're, they're all pretty good, but DINER is really worth seeing.
[speaker001:] Is that the one set in the fifties, or sixties.
[speaker002:] Uh, late fifties, yeah.
[speaker001:] Late fifties, yeah, I think I saw that one.
[speaker002:] Okay and, uh,
[speaker001:] How about Meryl Streep,

[speaker001:] Okay.
[speaker002:] Great. Um, currently, I'm not doing a whole lot of exercise in any type of program.
[speaker001:] Huh-uh.
[speaker002:] I'm mainly do a lot of walking. I have a son that's a little bit overweight and, um, the best thing we found to do with him is to walk around. So my wife and I kind of take turns. At one time I had a fairly regular exercise program. But, in the last couple of months I've changed to a new residence and everything has gotten kind of turned a little upside down. All this space that normally would be dedicated [LAUGHTER] towards the,
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] exercise area, is covered in boxes.
[speaker001:] Um, what did you do when you did exercise regularly?
[speaker002:] Well, I had, uh, a little routine that I did for warm ups.
[speaker001:] Huh-uh.
[speaker002:] And then I did some very mild, say, light weight lifting. Nothing, I'm not trying to make big bulging muscles,
[speaker001:] Huh-uh.
[speaker002:] just trying to try and stay as firm as I can stay in my old age [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Yeah [LAUGHTER]. Um, right now, um, I try when it's nice out, it's been raining a lot this spring, but I try to, uh, I have a bicycle and I like to cycle a lot. And, uh, my husband and I, we have entered a few rallies, that's pretty popular in Texas, I don't know,
[speaker002:] Huh-uh.
[speaker001:] if it's up north, but every weekend a small town will sponsor a rally and thousands of people come with their bikes and ride over hilly terrain for thirty or forty miles, which that's a lot of fun.
[speaker002:] Huh-uh.
[speaker001:] Um, so we try to ride during the week to try and stay in shape for that. And, um, T I, where I work has, uh, a fitness center so a lot of time after work or maybe on the weekends, we'd go over there and lift weights and do the tread mill, and, um, they have stair masters and all kinds of new machine, that are fun to ride and workout on. So I try to, I'm trying to stay in shape on a regular basis. I used to, uh, get into it and get out of it based on my schedule, so I'm trying to stay in shape on a regular basis now, but it's a big commitment. We don't have any kids yet so, that's a lot of, part of it.
[speaker002:] Yeah. That's a plus. Oh, I have a total of five children. I have three left living at home.
[speaker001:] Huh-uh.
[speaker002:] And they do take up a big part of my, uh, my evening and weekend.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] And it's tough being a parent and doing all the things that you should do for yourself, too.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] It's something they don't tell you about when you're growing up. Yes, when you become a parent most of your life is going to be dedicated to your children.
[speaker001:] Huh-uh [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] That's why, they, uh, really stress, at T I, they really stress, staying in shape, like stay in fit, overall fitness, you know, no smoking and all that. But it's hard to find, uh, an actual exercise regimen that work, for you, you know, because like I know a lot of people that cycle, they take their kids behind them on the bikes and I don't know if that would work for me because I don't know I wouldn't want to pull a kid over hilly terrain. But it's really hard to find something that works, and, you know, to find time to do it and stay committed to it like three days a week or whatever. I think maybe walking or running would probably work because it doesn't take much time and much money or whatever.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] You have to, what I found from my experience is you have to budget time for yourself.
[speaker001:] Huh-uh.
[speaker002:] And you can use what ever rationale you want, but basically, the healthier you stay, the longer you'll live.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] And, uh, you know, if I spend a little bit of time each day or a little bit of time every other day doing something for me to make me live longer, well, then I'll around a lot longer,
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] And those people that I'm taking the ten minutes or twenty minutes away from now, well, you know, get the enjoyment of me, years past where I would have been if I wouldn't have taken it.
[speaker001:] Huh-uh.
[speaker002:] If you kind of think of it as a rationale like that, it works out fine.
[speaker001:] Yeah. Um, I've been learning a lot lately about, um, I've been reading a book by Kenneth Cooper, I don't know if you're familiar with him
[speaker002:] Huh-uh.
[speaker001:] he was the pioneer of aerobics and all of health really. He's, he's, kind of, he's pretty much the innovator of the whole exercise thing. Um, he was talking about the three things you could, that cause aging smoking are inactivity, * mistranscribed? listen and what was the other one, I think was, yeah, obesity. If you can control those three areas, then are you going to live longer, you know, cause those are risk factors, so anyway,
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] it's kind of a tip.
[speaker002:] Oh, I've done a lot of study over the years and I found that probably one of the worst things that anybody can ingest is chlorinated water.
[speaker001:] Really [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Yeah. Um, the research that I've done and I've actually been in the drinking watering business since eighty-three.
[speaker001:] Huh-uh.
[speaker002:] And, it's amazing, that, uh, you know, prior to like nineteen-twenty there were very few heart attacks.
[speaker001:] Huh-uh.
[speaker002:] There were none prior to nineteen-hundred. Well, in nineteen-three they started experimenting with chlorinating the water. In nineteen-thirteen most of the major cities, and after that we,
[speaker001:] .
[speaker002:] we started having the hearts attacks and, uh, Dr. Price wrote a book CORONARY, CHOLESTEROL, AND CHLORINE. You can usually find it in a health food store.
[speaker001:] Huh-uh.
[speaker002:] I know they had it in health food stores in Plano, I used live in Plano.
[speaker001:] Dr. Price?
[speaker002:] Uh, Dr. Price, yeah. And it's amazing, he makes the, you know, it's a very small book and the guys very opinionated, um, but he makes a very good case against chlorine. There were no heart attacks before we started using it and he points out that people in, uh, England and, uh, or even diets that quadrupled the amount of cholesterol that we're ingesting now,
[speaker001:] Huh-uh.
[speaker002:] and they weren't dropping dead of heart attacks.
[speaker001:] That's really interesting.
[speaker002:] Yeah. He did some experiments on chickens whose arteries are very similar to ours.
[speaker001:] Huh-uh.
[speaker002:] And, uh, proved that ingestion of chlorine causes arteriosclerosis, which is the,
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] clogging of the arteries. And, uh, you know, he's, there's been a lot of reports since then. This whole thing about, first it was stress, then it went to cholesterol, and now they're saying what's cholesterol, well there's good cholesterol and there's bad cholesterol.
[speaker001:] Huh-uh.
[speaker002:] You know, it's amazing what he points out in that book and, in fact, he, everyone there was a toxicologist for the Environmental Protection Agency, who did work back in nineteen eighty-six, who wrote a letter to Dr. Price in nineteen eighty-seven. And in this letter he praised Dr. Price for the work he did back in the sixties on this and said that E P A had been doing experiments on nonhuman primates and proving that ingestion of chlorine causes arteriosclerosis. And, E P A never published that report.
[speaker001:] And what's the name of this book again?
[speaker002:] CORONARY, CHOLESTEROL AND CHLORINE.
[speaker001:] I'll have to remember that.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] That will be very interesting. My husband wants to go into medical school and be a neurosurgeon so, he's really interested in the heart.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] And he's, in fact, he's a, well, heart, too, he's, uh, he's done a lot of research on like how your heart reacts to exercise [LAUGHTER]. Sorry, he made me laugh. Um, so anyway,
[speaker002:] Yeah. There is, there is a lot of good information out there, uh, about health. And a lot of the, a lot of the myths they've been passing around, people are starting to realize aren't true.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] I mean, I'm all for having a diet high in fiber and all that, because that's, that's good for you,
[speaker001:] Huh-uh.
[speaker002:] uh, but to believe some of the things, you know, and I don't think anybody should be going out there and eating a high fat diet, but to think that solely, alone is going to cause something like arteriosclerosis is, is just hard to believe.
[speaker001:] If you get a chance read Dr. Cooper's book on controlling cholesterol.
[speaker002:] Huh-uh.
[speaker001:] That's a real good, um, he talks about that. Talks about high risk factors and heart disease and all that.
[speaker002:] Yeah. I actually eat pretty much anything that I want.
[speaker001:] Huh-uh.
[speaker002:] And I've had my cholesterol checked and, uh, a few times and I've never been above, like, you know, one-hundred and fifty,
[speaker001:] Huh-uh.
[speaker002:] never. And, uh, uh, I mean, I,
[speaker001:] You have a good ratio of good to bad.
[speaker002:] Um,
[speaker001:] Cholesterol.
[speaker002:] Well, what they tell me, but, I mean, you know, everything is like within five to ten percent and all that kind of thing [LAUGHTER]. You know, they leave themselves wide open so they can't be sued.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] But, uh, we've, I work at the T I site in Hunt Valley, Maryland.
[speaker001:] Oh, really.
[speaker002:] Yeah and we've had a few of the health fairs up here and, um, you know, I've always come out aces.
[speaker001:] That's good.
[speaker002:] You know, I'm not really that big on watching what I eat, but I do eat, you know, some health cookies that are high in fiber,
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] low in fat and all that kind of stuff. But, I mean as far as really being concerned about ingesting too much chlorine, I'm not, cholesterol, I'm not worried about it. [Tape fades.]

[speaker001:] uh the the only work I do outside the home is I am an Avon representative
[speaker002:] oh okay
[speaker001:] and I sell Stanley products
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] and uh so I I don't really I don't really dress up a whole lot do you work outside
[speaker002:] she can well I I work um I'm a CPA and I do contract work
[speaker001:] oh uh-huh
[speaker002:] and so and I work with another CPA who just started his own practice and I work with him a couple days a week and so when I go to his office or to other clients' offices then I'll dress up
[speaker001:] oh uh-huh um-hum
[speaker002:] but otherwise it's great being at home in jeans or shorts or whatever so that that makes it pretty nice it
[speaker001:] um-hum um-hum um-hum um-hum
[speaker002:] it's kind of weird because before I used to work you know full time and and uh it seemed like I was wearing a suit every day just about
[speaker001:] well you'd have to dress differently when you're working every day I think yeah
[speaker002:] right right and so it's uh some of my suits I haven't put on for quite a while so it
[speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh uh-huh it's kind of a nice to relax a little bit yeah
[speaker002:] it's it's very nice I
[speaker001:] yeah well my my dress up I live out in the country also so what I wear depends on the weather
[speaker002:] uh-huh sure
[speaker001:] uh so I really I know a lot of the Avon representatives are portrayed as being very dressed up but I mostly dress
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] I try to dress nice but for convenience because when the weather's bad when I go into the home I take off my shoes
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] which I try to wear something easy to take off you know and put on and I don't too often take off my coat even so
[speaker002:] right
[speaker001:] uh I really don't have to dress up like you you would like if you're in an office or something
[speaker002:] yeah yeah well I imagine that where you live uh you're in warm clothing quite a bit of the year
[speaker001:] uh well not actually because we really only have maybe three four months of I'd say warm weather
[speaker002:] not really oh is that right
[speaker001:] yeah and the rest is uh gets into the cooler weather
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] uh-huh course they keep saying the weather's gonna change or we're gonna have more Florida type weather up here so I don't know but for now
[speaker002:] uh-huh so y'all are waiting for that
[speaker001:] um-hum but even for now we have a lot of ice and snow in the wintertime and uh cold weather and that type of thing now my daughter works all the time so she dresses
[speaker002:] uh-huh yeah
[speaker001:] it I think you know you have to spend more money on your clothing and that because you do have to have the appearance a good appearance to do a good job
[speaker002:] right right
[speaker001:] where you work
[speaker002:] yeah well down here it's sunny most of the time and uh
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] usually warm I mean we've had a few cool days uh this month but not anything I'm sure compared to what you've had so far so I mean people are still wearing shorts and
[speaker001:] um um-hum um-hum
[speaker002:] and uh usually around Halloween it starts getting cooler so you start you know breaking out a coat
[speaker001:] um-hum um-hum right yeah
[speaker002:] at that time but that that lasts you know for a few months
[speaker001:] did you find you wore uh slacks when you were working full time or did you did did they wear more dresses and skirts
[speaker002:] no no never wore slacks it was
[speaker001:] no slacks
[speaker002:] I think it was one of those things where it's not like someone came out and said you can't wear them it was one of those understood things that you just you know either wore you know a dress or
[speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh uh-huh uh-huh not even a dressy slack a dressy suit slack suit even if it's all
[speaker002:] not no not not with what I did um most people didn't sometimes like the secretaries might
[speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh um-hum
[speaker002:] but even then you didn't see them wearing slacks too much and I really you know there's some nice pantsuits out and and I wouldn't have minded minded you know wearing those especially when it gets pretty cold
[speaker001:] um-hum um-hum hm um-hum um-hum I know my daughter mostly I don't think she ever wears slacks slacks to work but I didn't know if the trend changes you know if uh
[speaker002:] but um uh-huh you know I think it's one of those things where it's not viewed upon as being professional I guess they expect women to be in skirts or dresses
[speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh look more like a woman huh uh-huh uh-huh
[speaker002:] yeah that's right and it's the men that make the rules
[speaker001:] uh well then you you you know why they make them then that way
[speaker002:] but no we usually you know skirt and skirt and blouse or suit or dress is is what you see down here so it's nice with me working at home because I can wear pants
[speaker001:] um-hum um-hum yeah
[speaker002:] no one no one can see me unless I'm you know gonna
[speaker001:] yeah but yet you need to keep up an appearance for your husband too though at home but that's I I believe
[speaker002:] yeah yeah but I'm not gonna put a skirt on just for him
[speaker001:] oh you don't think you will huh well you'll be excused because considering everything huh uh-huh
[speaker002:] yeah I think that the main issue at home is being comfortable in your clothing
[speaker001:] yeah but I I look at homemaking as a job also uh being a homemaker and I I think sometimes we lose sight of that
[speaker002:] right yeah
[speaker001:] uh by the fact that we don't sometimes watch our dress

[speaker001:] pretty good, pretty good. So we're talking about drug testing in the work place, huh. *listen
[speaker002:] Drug testing in the work place. Um. I've been tested a few times, just before pre-, drug employment. But that's about it. I've never had random drug testing.
[speaker001:] Yeah, we have random drug testing at, in my business, but I've never been, uh, never had to do it.
[speaker002:] Oh, really?
[speaker001:] Yeah, yeah, they started that about a year ago, and I think it's mostly for the, the field people that, you know, drive trucks and heavy machinery, that kind of stuff.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] But, uh, they, they have done some testing around our office, mostly after lunch, looking for people drinking, uh, drinking beer and stuff at lunch time, at least that's.
[speaker002:] Oh, they do with alcohol.
[speaker001:] Pardon?
[speaker002:] They do it with alcohol?
[speaker001:] Yeah, yeah, they, they, they'll check for alcohol.
[speaker002:] Oh, I thought it was just like marijuana or cocaine.
[speaker001:] No, once, once you start doing that stuff, you sort of, you're sort of stuck into, uh, checking for the whole, the whole thing.
[speaker002:] Huh. That's interesting.
[speaker001:] Yeah, it's a,
[speaker002:] What type of field of work are you in?
[speaker001:] I'm in the oil business.
[speaker002:] Oh, in the oil business.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] Okay, and you work in the office around.
[speaker001:] Yeah, I work in the office, so, uh, it's pretty, pretty safe environment.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Yeah see, I work in the automotive air bag industry, where we make the safety bags
[speaker001:] Uh-huh, uh-huh.
[speaker002:] for the cars, and we work around a lot of explosives.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Well, that sounds like kind of an important job to be, uh, straight on.
[speaker002:] Yeah, so that's, you know, I'm all for it, because the, well, the type of environment I work in, you know, they're working with explosives, and so they could blow up the whole, well, they have safety features with each of the explosives they use, but still, it can be dangerous.
[speaker001:] Yeah, yeah, well, I, I, I agree. I think that, uh, you know, under certain circumstances, especially when you're working in, in high risk, uh, uh, industries, where you can really hurt other people, that, that you need to have that kind of stuff.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] You know, if it's, as long as it's not abused, uh, you know, random, you know, as long as it's random, and, and the individual's rights are, uh, are protected, I don't have that big a problem with it.
[speaker002:] Now do they fire them, or do they?
[speaker001:] Well, see, this is it, this is where I start having my problems with my company. I work for a private company, and
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and the policy is something like, see if I can re-, state this correctly now. If you turn yourself in as having a drug related problem, then you're eligible for company counseling.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] But if they catch you, if you test positive for a, a controlled substance, then you get fired.
[speaker002:] Oh, wow.
[speaker001:] So, it, you know, it's sort of one of these little catch twenty-twos.
[speaker002:] Huh, that's. I think our policy is that, all right, it's probably the same thing. I'm not really sure what the [LAUGHTER],
[speaker001:] Yeah, really, it's one of those things that you read once, and then, if you, if you're not worried about it, you just forget about it [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] That's right. But I know, they do have counseling, and that they do give you a second chance, but I'm not sure if
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] if it's if you get caught or if you turn yourself in.
[speaker001:] Yeah, yeah, our company's a little tougher on the second chance. I mean, if, if they're going to give you the opportunity to turn yourself in, then they ought to, you know, go out of the way, I think, a little bit more to, uh, to help you get, help get you rehabilitated to, you know, to get get back at your job.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] But, uh, when you're not, when you're a private company, the rules don't always apply.
[speaker002:] Uh, do you think it works very good with that random, do you think it limits,
[speaker001:] Well, it's, it's hard for me to, to evaluate it because everybody I work around is in an office environment and, you know, it's not, I guess I ha-, haven't run into anybody that's, that's had a problem that's, that's been a problem.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Uh, so I gue-, you know, I guess it works, uh, much like, uh, well, shoot, like any lottery, I mean, everybody's got an equal chance to get picked.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] So, uh, I'd rather have that than, you know, say well, this week the A -s and B -s are going to be in and next week,
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] C -s and [LAUGHTER] D -s are going to come in [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] You could time it just right.
[speaker001:] Yeah, right, right.
[speaker002:] I know one employee, I know, when I was working with, he had alcohol on his breath, and I'm not sure if our policy covers that or not. That'd be just as dangerous.
[speaker001:] Yeah. Well, especially around, uh, you know, equipment, machinery and stuff.
[speaker002:] Huh. That's true.
[speaker001:] You know, I've, I've gone out and had a, had a beer at lunch time, but not to excess in any case [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Uh-huh. Do they give any limits on alcohol, or is it?
[speaker001:] Uh, I don't remember, to tell you the truth. I don't think they do. Um, well, they must, I mean, gee whiz. That just shows you how much I've been paying attention, because I, I really don't know.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] I'll have to go into work tomorrow and ask [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] Oh.
[speaker001:] Well, you know, you can take some of that, that testing a little bit too far. Uh, there was a company in Houston that, they did, uh, an unannounced drug sweep of the, of their company
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] oh, it was, it was, it was an unannounced sweep of, of, it was not only drugs,

[speaker001:] so uh what things do you consider an invasion of privacy
[speaker002:] well I don't know what do you think
[speaker001:] oh I don't I don't know I had a little bit more time to think about it I was thinking of like uh  I don't know I started I started to think about all the big you know data bases they have with all the information about you on them like the credit reports and
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] and all those you know demographics studies that they do that um you know have who knows how much you know stuff about all the purchases that you've made and everything kept tract somewhere and  I don't know I don't know how much the stuff actually what they actually have in there but
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] I know they use that I mean they they sell those to
[speaker002:] well what about the required drug testing uh as a uh condition of employment
[speaker001:] yeah that was that was that was the other one I was thinking of  I think that's uh I mean I know drugs are illegal
[speaker002:] it a subtle thing actually um  I uh have worked at Texas Instruments
[speaker001:] uh uh-huh
[speaker002:] and uh they instituted a drug policy there drug testing policy where they randomly would test uh employees
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] and actually to tell you the truth I really didn't think much about it I I hadn't you know it really didn't relate to me but there were some things that people brought up like well what happens if they they get a false positive you know what recourse do you have
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] and  also um uh this is against the law for the government to do this kind of thing this kind of big brother activity and yet uh a lot of these large corporations such as Texas Instruments although they don't admit to it it's actually oh a drug testing policy comes about as a result of government pressure
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] so  what that means is to me that really it's the government that's requiring this although they don't actually execute execute it themselves it's really the government's that so in that sense at at least uh philosophically it's really borderline legal
[speaker001:] um-hum well I I think that um I think that you know a person's competence should be more determined by you know their actions and their behavior and if they're you know if they're on some kind of you know controlled controlled substance then you know it kinds of takes away from the job of you know the supervisor or manager type person know who is able to evaluate them I think they should be evaluated that way rather than with a you know a chemical you know
[speaker002:] well what about this uh AIDS epidemic now where you find that uh  uh you know certain people are actually are are criminal in their disregard for
[speaker001:] the people that are carriers and don't uh don't reveal it
[speaker002:] others yeah and and uh of course the ultimate solution is to operate on their brain so that it doesn't get uh it destroys their libido
[speaker001:] yeah that's that would be kind of an extreme
[speaker002:] now uh you know if they ever
[speaker001:] I mean I've heard of things like you know making them you know uh marking them somehow or you know or something like that or you know putting them all some some place like in a kind of a
[speaker002:] so what about that as an invasion of privacy
[speaker001:] yeah well I guess it kind of borders on where
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] I mean what do you value more the invasion of uh the person's privacy or the possible danger to you know other people
[speaker002:] so really it it gets to balancing uh personal freedom against uh the general welfare
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] of society
[speaker001:] I guess that's always that's been the big role of government I guess
[speaker002:] well are it's supposed to have been
[speaker001:] I mean generally yeah yeah well yeah that's kind of a difficult one to go into I mean that that particular case
[speaker002:] now it
[speaker001:] because I mean there's a lot of people that uh I mean they could require one you know obligatory obligatory AIDS testing for everyone because I'm sure you know there's a huge part of the population not a huge part but a you know the the AIDS population I guess that have it that don't know they do
[speaker002:] a growing part um-hum
[speaker001:] and are spreading it but again to require you know such a test and just and then to make make it known they have it is to subject them to to discriminatory discriminatory practices and other things I don't know uh I don't know how exactly I feel about that
[speaker002:] maybe chop their weenies off

[speaker001:] okay for as far as um I would think the probably the uh worst substance that's probably um or started to say the uh what causes the most air pollution is probably the car
[speaker002:] probably so
[speaker001:] and uh whether or not um they'll ever get into like huge transit systems into big cities where people would all travel on a high speed uh train or or something like that or park
[speaker002:] yeah it'll be hard to get people to give up their mobility
[speaker001:] yeah that's exactly it and that's what we're finding um here where we're at in Minneapolis area is that people don't want to carpool that there are
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] inconveniences to that or maybe you don't like the person you have to you would want to carpool with that kind of thing so it's it's kind of a thing where uh I think the majority of the people do not carpool
[speaker002:] I think so too I'm in Texas and very few people carpool uh the people that I know don't want to because uh
[speaker001:] um-hum yeah
[speaker002:] they never know for sure what time they're going to leave their job they never know when they want to run out and do an errand at noon you know they just feel they need their car
[speaker001:] exactly uh-huh or if somebody gets sick yeah or if somebody gets sick and it's not the other person and they want to go home and that one person's got the car then they're they're stuck you're definitely right so
[speaker002:] um-hum um-hum that's right and people don't want to give it up but now I think we've made great strides in changing a lot of that by going to the unleaded gasoline and and
[speaker001:] yes um-hum sure oops sure that happens quite a bit
[speaker002:] to change the car itself but uh you know I I don't guess we can get away from it a hundred percent but yeah
[speaker001:] yes yeah that's very true um other than that uh I don't know oh okay oh okay we'll try to be real quick here the other thing then is because I don't know how long they want us to talk it
[speaker002:] well my other line is ringing but we're going to ignore it I'm sorry for these beeps oh a close to five minutes I believe and you're in Minneapolis well is the pollution really bad up there
[speaker001:] five minutes oh okay Minneapolis area uh actually no we have uh quite a bit uh the only problem that we have and that's all over the whole world is ozone and of course hay fever season you get more pollutants such as those but those are natural
[speaker002:] um-hum um-hum yeah
[speaker001:] um but there is starting to in Minneapolis itself because of so many people on the highway there is becoming a problem of pollution and they just put in a strict
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] law that as of every year when you get your license tabs you have to have your car inspected to see if it's releasing any uh lead
[speaker002:] um-hum um-hum
[speaker001:] into the air the air or other pollutants and if that's the case then you have to get your car fixed at least you can't
[speaker002:] um-hum that's the way it has gotten here we have just had that law I think about a year maybe a year and a half here in Texas
[speaker001:] sure yeah
[speaker002:] but uh I think it's a good idea because a lot of people still want to drive the older cars which you can't blame them for that and uh but if they are polluting the air they need do need to have them fixed
[speaker001:] yeah it's not a bad idea um-hum sure sure exactly
[speaker002:] and you know there's a big move especially in the industrial part in Texas right now of controlling the CFCs that the big manufacturing companies are producing into the air they're having to change the type of products they use
[speaker001:] um-hum sure uh-huh
[speaker002:] uh they can't use like I have a friend that's in the air conditioning heating business
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] and they have to pay a penalty for every ounce or pound of this certain type of Freon that they use in the air conditioning systems systems
[speaker001:] sure
[speaker002:] therefore the individual every time they have a service call if they have an old unit that's still using this twenty two Freon or whatever it is it costs them three times as much to get it fixed
[speaker001:] uh-huh sure
[speaker002:] and uh if you have a new high efficiency system that uses the new type of Freons that do not release as many CFCs into the atmosphere it doesn't cost as much
[speaker001:] uh-huh yeah
[speaker002:] so eventually people are gonna have to go to newer systems you know but
[speaker001:] sure uh the other thing when you're talking about freon with cars uh air conditioning I'm sure over there it's it's a necessity versus something up here we can live without it but it's uncomfortable
[speaker002:] um-hum right um-hum
[speaker001:] but uh this year my husband recharged our freon because it was needed to be done and one of the cans released entire amount of freon into the uh
[speaker002:] um-hum hm
[speaker001:] into the air because he opened it and I don't know if there was something wrong with it or it his directions weren't quite fully instructed onto that and I was thinking how many other people
[speaker002:] um-hum it's probably happened to millions of people um-hum
[speaker001:] oh sure because if you take it into a service station they want to charge you forty dollars just for uh freon which only costs you about three dollars so I have this feeling that freon probably will increase in price
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] because it is something that people will have to take into consideration and say hey that's that's right there I think it's like three or four dollars a a can
[speaker002:] um-hum yeah
[speaker001:] and it takes about four to five cans to fill up a air conditioning unit in a car and I I thought about that and my husband even was kind of woozy after that because I'm sure he breathed it
[speaker002:] inhaled so much of it um-hum
[speaker001:] but uh you think about that all the people that are using freon and things like that and
[speaker002:] yeah well of course in the uh I'd think you probably noticed in the discount stores and places in the hair sprays we're not seeing as many aerosol cans down here nearly everything is in the pump squirt you
[speaker001:] uh-huh exactly pump yeah

[speaker001:] alrighty uh I'll just hand it off to you and hobbies in our spare time is what we've been selected to discuss today
[speaker002:] well uh the hobbies that I pursue in my spare time are crafts and uh I've been involved in making uh hat stand and uh rag dolls and uh different type hats with um flowers and roses you know and uh that kind of thing straw hats and all that kind of stuff
[speaker001:] hm
[speaker002:] and I enjoy it it's relaxing and you kind of get absorbed in it so the time goes by you know before you realize anything's going on and I play the organ sometimes uh just for my own satisfaction not for anybody else's ears because I'm not that good at it but I like to bang the keyboards once in a while how about yourself
[speaker001:] oh really well oh hobbies gee whiz I guess I got too many hobbies so I never have time to deal with them I like photography a lot uh
[speaker002:] really oh yeah that's neat
[speaker001:] I used to do that a lot and then I like um we have a new child that'll be a year old here next week so I'll take a lot of pictures of her you know and spoil them first one you know how that is and um uh
[speaker002:] oh that's great uh-huh
[speaker001:] I play the guitar and a banjo I mainly play the guitar a lot you know I play it about every night and um I really love that if I had a druther if I could've if I could make it on the road I'd like to play on like a bluegrass band or something because that's
[speaker002:] oh that sounds nice I like bluegrass too
[speaker001:] I've yeah I've done it before and when I was in high in high school and college and thoroughly enjoyed it and and it's really a a blast my wife hates it but that's the way life is I guess
[speaker002:] uh-huh that's the hard part right
[speaker001:] exactly
[speaker002:] if you can do things together that really helps a lot
[speaker001:] uh the well yeah we uh she's uh into the aerobics and uh
[speaker002:] oh well that's good too
[speaker001:] and and we did aerobics together for about a month and a half and that went over real well but uh that's about it there
[speaker002:] uh-huh oh it's good and it's healthy too
[speaker001:] oh yeah yeah
[speaker002:] we do that too we have a uh a treadmill and uh a bicycle and that kind of stuff we try to get twenty minutes like at least three for four times a week you know yeah and we like movies
[speaker001:] oh that's great that's great yep that's uh spare time with a child it's kind of stressful she's we have uh we're looking for a baby sitter so we've been out twice in one in this year so far by ourselves without the child so it's kind of
[speaker002:] yeah uh-huh
[speaker001:] uh become an issue you could say um hobbies I like
[speaker002:] sure
[speaker001:] messing around in your house building things and you know put cabinets up and those kind of things um
[speaker002:] oh yeah that's great too uh-huh yeah we did some remodeling when we bought a house we built put a kitchen in and um that kind of stuff and painting and some wallpapering that's fun it is it really is
[speaker001:] it's really kind of fun especially if your spouse will get in there with you and get dirty yeah
[speaker002:] yep exactly I like things that uh you know two people can do but I like the quiet of doing things away you know kind of gives you some space for yourself and that's what I find in making the dolls and things that it gives me something that I can create and I like to crochet and knit I made some afghans and that kind of stuff I like doing things with my hands
[speaker001:] uh-huh sounds like it do you like to cook
[speaker002:] that yeah yes I love to cook
[speaker001:] yeah I love to cook too I'm a
[speaker002:] Italian food yeah pizzas and spaghettis and lasagnas and that kind of stuff
[speaker001:] oh really well we're all skinny farts so I it so when it comes I like to cook and eat and to have mainly mainly I guess I get the enjoyment out of people eating it and saying man this is really good um
[speaker002:] yeah uh-huh yeah it is
[speaker001:] um but it it just work in the garden work around the yard of course
[speaker002:] do you do barbecues
[speaker001:] yes we we sure do smoke them and
[speaker002:] for uh uh uh smoking and all that stuff
[speaker001:] oh yeah all that hoe down stuff yeah all that stuff that's bad for you
[speaker002:] yeah yep I I lived in Abilene for a little while
[speaker001:] oh sure yeah
[speaker002:] and uh worked in the Abilene plant and we used to go to Joe Allen's Barbecue and oh that was great
[speaker001:] oh yeah
[speaker002:] really great they have some nice stuff down there
[speaker001:] that's uh only way to do it
[speaker002:] I miss it
[speaker001:] well yeah it's uh it's uh it's uh there's uh there's pluses to everything but yeah it seems like there's just so many things to do down here I like the sports side I play a lot of racquetball
[speaker002:] oh yeah oh we did horseback I I did horseback riding too in fact when my children were growing up we always had horses and uh that was kind of for them but they weren't as interested in it as we were you know so uh that was a real I'd say probably for maybe fifteen years we dabbled in that you know we always had horses around and I really enjoyed that
[speaker001:] oh that's great sound like you
[speaker002:] and I was disappointed when I went to Texas I didn't see that many of them yes
[speaker001:] horses yeah you really don't yeah there's there's a you have to look real hard to see a lot of things besides concrete uh
[speaker002:] I know I know it's true
[speaker001:] there's buildings and concrete and a lot of people and that's about it down here and it's uh yeah but uh that's great well sound like you have a lot of nice hobbies there
[speaker002:] uh-huh yeah you too you too
[speaker001:] well great well look uh I know it's probably late for you uh enjoyed speaking with you have a good weekend bye-bye
[speaker002:] okay me too okay bye now

[speaker001:] all right um one thing you know that I always think about when I think of public education because I went through the public um school system of Boston and uh
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] I always felt that I graduated high school and I still didn't even I I I couldn't put together a map of the United States
[speaker002:] hm uh-huh
[speaker001:] you know what I mean and yet I felt that I got a good education and and I did well in school but you tell me to name you know five continents and I couldn't do it I just feel like there are some real basics that are missing from education
[speaker002:] uh-huh huh
[speaker001:] and that people are are leaving school not even knowing some common sense things
[speaker002:] yeah when uh well talking about public education um I was just just I'm we're doing a proposal at we're doing at NC State
[speaker001:] um-hum yeah
[speaker002:] we're trying to improve the computer science curriculum
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] so that's kind of at a higher level
[speaker001:] right
[speaker002:] so it's interesting that you chose that topic
[speaker001:] yeah um did you go through a a public school system or a private
[speaker002:] yeah well I went through private until ninth grade
[speaker001:] um-hum did you notice a big difference
[speaker002:] yeah oh yeah big difference
[speaker001:] like in what sense
[speaker002:] well um in uh public schools I guess there were there are a lot of you know people can take lower level courses and get away with learning nothing
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] but um in private school you couldn't do that you know you had to learn
[speaker001:] um-hum yeah I work in a temporary agency and there are people that come in you know everyday to fill out an application and
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] they'll have to bring somebody with them and they will show that they completed um four years of high school yet when it comes to even answering the questions on a simple application
[speaker002:] huh
[speaker001:] they can't read enough to be able to fill out the answers by themselves
[speaker002:] it's bad
[speaker001:] it's just incredible
[speaker002:] yeah our state just cut a whole bunch of uh like think it's ten million dollars out of the school budget
[speaker001:] really
[speaker002:] so we're making all kinds of cuts in college people cannot I mean the teachers can't make tests anymore and the the library's canceling all it's subscription
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] it's pretty sorry
[speaker001:] I know um they uh I forget what I think it's um someplace in New York because they're having budget problems they're closing the libraries
[speaker002:] uh-huh yeah
[speaker001:] I mean they're not getting rid of any of the sports
[speaker002:] huh
[speaker001:] or anything like that they're not cutting in any other corner they're closing the libraries that to me shows a little uh switch in priorities you know
[speaker002:] and uh yeah
[speaker001:] so do you go to college right now are you in
[speaker002:] yeah it's my last year
[speaker001:] you're so you're a senior now
[speaker002:] yeah I'm working on my projects trying to graduate
[speaker001:] oh good for you that's great um is is NC University is that uh uh state what'd you say
[speaker002:] yeah NC State NC State
[speaker001:] NC State that's a state university then I see and you're from there also
[speaker002:] yeah well yeah I was uh I was born in Raleigh and then I lived in Winston-Salem rest of my life
[speaker001:] um-hum I see
[speaker002:] so now I'm back here going to school
[speaker001:] well pretty soon it's gonna get to the point where no one's gonna be able to afford to send their kids to college or to go to college
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] it's just outrageously expensive
[speaker002:] luckily State's the cheap one of the cheap ones
[speaker001:] oh is it well still though I mean you know thousands of dollars
[speaker002:] yeah yeah state's not that bad
[speaker001:] oh well that's good that's good I went to a private university and um
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] I I don't know I look back now and I I think that I probably would've done it differently if I um you know could do it over again but um
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] I I have a lot of friends that went to state schools or didn't even go to school some some of them and I still feel like they came out knowing just as much as I did I really do and that's probably a pretty sad thing to say but um I don't know I I what
[speaker002:] yeah where'd you go where did you go sorry
[speaker001:] I went to Brandeis University it's in Massachusetts
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] and um I I really felt like I've been working now for about four years
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] and I I feel like what what I've learned working is a hundred times more valuable than what I learned in school
[speaker002:] huh
[speaker001:] and I know that I'm drawing a lot on what I learned in school you know I I probably just subconsciously rely a lot on on learned but um I don't know my sister's a principal at a school and one thing that she's trying to instill in kids um besides just reading and writing um are just some the golden rules she calls them just some basics about um you know you don't take what's not yours
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] uh and and if you want to you know you don't touch anybody else unless you have their permission like no hitting you know no pulling hair or anything like that
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] and uh the school that she's in is a um it's basically for minorities um there's uh a large minority population and um
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] she's really noticed that even some of the teachers that work there I think they don't value that type of student as much as you get in some
[speaker002:] yeah that's sorry that that that they like pick on you know that the advanced stud ents and pay more attention to them ignore the others
[speaker001:] yeah it's true um-hum
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] and I don't know if it makes them feel better I mean do teachers get I mean personally I would get more satisfaction out of taking somebody that wasn't as successful
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] and seeing what they could do versus somebody that you know did excel in in areas and just watching them get better you know that's not much of a challenge
[speaker002:] yeah that's true
[speaker001:] but are do you have any idea what you're gonna go into when you graduate
[speaker002:] um graduate school yeah
[speaker001:] oh yeah do you know where yo u're going
[speaker002:] I think I'm going to Chapel Hill
[speaker001:] where's that
[speaker002:] that's in Chapel Hill that's the name yeah never heard of the Tarheels
[speaker001:] oh is that North Carolina oh okay no I don't know that area
[speaker002:] the ACC Tarheels UNC
[speaker001:] I don't know it
[speaker002:] oh well
[speaker001:] I don't get down there very often
[speaker002:] they were in the final four don't watch basketball
[speaker001:] oh really well the way I pick the final four was um by the the state that had the warmest climate
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] so that's how I chose all mine so you can tell that I didn't really have that much to do with any of it but so obviously you're into education if you can be going my husband went to is in graduate school actually right now
[speaker002:] no yeah uh-huh
[speaker001:] and uh I don't know I give you a lot of credit I I couldn't do it I I couldn't wait to graduate and have it be all over
[speaker002:] yeah I know ah I can't wait to graduate either now I got all these stuff due oh wow
[speaker001:] I know yeah I kind of know what you mean
[speaker002:] overloaded
[speaker001:] well it was really nice talking to you okay good luck alrighty take care bye-bye
[speaker002:] all right all right thank you all right bye

[speaker001:] okay um read any good books lately
[speaker002:] uh yes I I've read uh several good books lately uh lot of them uh related to um business and financial matters since that's what I do for a living
[speaker001:] oh okay um-hum
[speaker002:] how about yourself
[speaker001:] uh well I'm in graduate school and so I read a lot of books but I don't know if I consider very many of them good
[speaker002:] um
[speaker001:] I haven't read a book for enjoyment since I guess around Christmas um I received received uh uh several books for Christmas and at Christmas break I read uh Sarum by uh uh a fellow named Rutherford
[speaker002:] yes
[speaker001:] uh it's the history of um well it's sort sort of the historical the historical fiction about uh the Salisbury area in in England
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] uh and so uh I I really enjoyed that book a lot uh he's not quite as good as you know Michener or some of uh some of the other historical writers but he he did his job well so yeah
[speaker002:] well that sounds good
[speaker001:] uh do you find it uh do do you find you have much chance to read for for just pleasure or mostly for business
[speaker002:] no I read for pleasure some also I read a book recently called Iron John have you seen that by Bly
[speaker001:] um-hum I don't think I have seen it
[speaker002:] okay well it's a book about uh uh Greek gods and and Greek um mythology
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] as well as uh men and interacting with other men and a book about uh men and how they mature through life
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] and how they deal with life itself
[speaker001:] oh okay I think I have heard about that yeah
[speaker002:] but it's uh it's all revolved around uh mythology
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] uh as far as uh traditions from uh other cultures and our culture
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] and how we uh interact with one another
[speaker001:] um-hum yeah that sounds great did did it have something to mention about um sort of uh cultural rituals of of manhood
[speaker002:] yes
[speaker001:] okay yeah I have heard of that I have uh someone suggested that I read it is it Iron John
[speaker002:] yes
[speaker001:] okay good
[speaker002:] by Bly B L Y I believe it is
[speaker001:] B L Y okay
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] great
[speaker002:] and uh it's a very interesting book
[speaker001:] uh-huh uh what are your favorite uh do you have a favorite subject to read whether it be science fiction or or history or
[speaker002:] well it depends again if we're talking about uh um I read a lot of religious books
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] uh just because I have an interest in that area
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] and I read a lot of books in the area of uh um psychology and self help type uh materials
[speaker001:] um-hum okay
[speaker002:] uh always trying to understand people better and understand myself in a relation to other people and try to understand where the people are coming from because I'm in a people business
[speaker001:] um-hum um-hum okay
[speaker002:] and uh so that's that's that that's my work is my hobby
[speaker001:] um-hum that's
[speaker002:] so I I enjoy it
[speaker001:] sounds great um uh who is your uh who is your favorite religious author
[speaker002:] well I don't know if I have a favorite
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] uh religious author I would have to say that uh some of the ones that consistently put out good materials uh you know that that's difficult because one person might write one book real extremely well and some other ones might not write as well
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] uh I have to stop here and think a second one of the ones that I've read recently that I've read several of his books and I thought that each one of his books were good he's the man out of San Antonio and uh Max Lucado
[speaker001:] Max Lucado yeah
[speaker002:] Max consistently consistently writes good books
[speaker001:] yeah uh he's a great man I've met him several times uh
[speaker002:] yes I I know him yeah
[speaker001:] uh
[speaker002:] uh but uh there's other authors also that have uh uh that write good books from time to time but not consistently put out the materials all the time
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] um I'd say another which is a local writer here in Plano um is I'm trying to think of his name he's with the Bible church and that is uh I see his name but I can't I mean I see him but I can't see his name  but he uh he talks about uh he talks about a lot of different topics and dimensions of the church and
[speaker001:] um-hum

[speaker002:] do you want to start
[speaker001:] yeah I'm trying to think what I've seen lately I mean well well we just finished watching uh Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles on tape you know
[speaker002:] did you watch Dances With Wolves did you see the movie
[speaker001:] yeah we we've seen that yeah
[speaker002:] did you like it
[speaker001:] yeah it was great have you seen it
[speaker002:] I thought it was very well done
[speaker001:] yeah I um
[speaker002:] how about Ghost
[speaker001:] we we saw an we liked it but you know I didn't think it was as good as all the uh hype was about it
[speaker002:] right I feel the same way about that too it was okay
[speaker001:] yeah I don't I I couldn't see it worth getting a nomination for uh best picture
[speaker002:] no no and uh what let's see uh the most recent ones that I've seen are those two Ghost and uh Dances With Wolves but I rent uh uh videos do you
[speaker001:] yeah yeah and so we just uh it depends um you know it depends on what
[speaker002:] you you watch many do you like the classics like uh Gone With the Wind and uh you know the older movies
[speaker001:] I'd like to see those I keep you know um you know there's like three movies that I I keep telling myself that I should see one of these you know some day that I haven't seen you know that that are classics you know because I've never seen Citizen Kane and never seen
[speaker002:] yeah that was good
[speaker001:] I've never seen Casablanca and never seen Gone With The Wind
[speaker002:] I think I've seen most of Humphrey Bogart's movies but in in you know a long time ago and uh like the Maltese Falcon and all those uh
[speaker001:] uh-huh oh I I definitely we saw part of The African Queen on on TV a couple of years ago and I've I've always I've been wanting to see all of it but we just you know we walk into the video store and we're like well why don't we go see this now so
[speaker002:] uh yeah that was good yeah yeah yeah it's true
[speaker001:] but um I think one of the movies we saw recently we saw uh Misery
[speaker002:] oh I didn't see that one
[speaker001:] that was good um oh it was great and it you think you know for a Stephen you know it because it was by Stephen King it would be really gory but there's only one well there's a couple scenes
[speaker002:] really
[speaker001:] at at the end there's there is you know some blood and everything and there's one really bad scene where it's I mean there's not blood but it's pretty graphic but it's um it's a really good movie um
[speaker002:] yeah yeah really is that the one where uh the guy gets captured by that woman okay yeah
[speaker001:] yeah yeah he's a writer and um she's his biggest fan and she's also
[speaker002:] yeah right
[speaker001:] a little a little on the nutso side
[speaker002:] uh-huh did you see Pacific Heights
[speaker001:] no we haven't um
[speaker002:] I saw that one that one wasn't that great either well I didn't think so no
[speaker001:] oh it wasn't okay I I got I heard like mixed reviews um of that we saw
[speaker002:] how about Silence of the Lambs
[speaker001:] that's that's on our list of things to see
[speaker002:] I know I I wanted to see I I was curious if you had seen it and that uh
[speaker001:] no our big thing is um you know movie movie prices up here I think it's like six bucks now in the theaters and you know so it's like you know a lot of things we try to catch like at the dollar theater or matinees and then a lot of other stuff we just wait until it comes out on tape
[speaker002:] yeah that's us too yeah yeah true I know it's too bad that they've gotten so expensive
[speaker001:] yeah one movie we saw in the last couple of months that we really enjoyed was uh Edward Scissorhands
[speaker002:] oh really
[speaker001:] yeah have you seen that oh it was great yeah it was
[speaker002:] no really I thought it was kind of maybe for kids more than adults
[speaker001:] no no it's um it's an odd film and it's really interesting that I like the director a lot um a guy named Tim Burton
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] did you ever see the movie Beetlejuice
[speaker002:] uh part of it I
[speaker001:] oh okay
[speaker002:] I never really watched the whole thing
[speaker001:] oh see yeah well if you if you liked Beetlejuice you'll probably like Edward Scissorhands if you didn't like Beetlejuice you'll probably won't like Edward Scissorhands
[speaker002:] oh really
[speaker001:] yeah it's um Burton's kind of uh he he he's a very odd odd man but he's I think he's very interesting and uh I liked those two movies of his a lot he did Batman also which you know
[speaker002:] uh-huh yeah that was pretty good though really
[speaker001:] it was good but I mean he was um
[speaker002:] when you think of what it takes to make some of those kind of movies you know
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] you see it for uh you know a couple of hours or an hour and it really there's a lot in it when you look at the scenery and the cars
[speaker001:] oh yeah oh
[speaker002:] and all the different stuff like that you know
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] whose your favorite actress or actor
[speaker001:] um don't really know I like Costner a lot but uh I'm a big I'm a big baseball fan so you know after Bull Durham and Field of Dreams you know um although you know
[speaker002:] uh-huh yeah that was good I saw that movie too that was very good
[speaker001:] which one
[speaker002:] Field of Dreams
[speaker001:] yeah Field of Dreams was good um and I I think I liked the other movies he's done No Way Out was really good and did you ever see Silverado
[speaker002:] oh yeah yeah Silverado uh who who was that with
[speaker001:] um let's see Danny Glover Scott Glen Kevin Kline um Brian Dennehe Jeff Goldblum's in uh John Clease is in it if you don't blink
[speaker002:] that the name the the title sounds familiar I'm trying to think
[speaker001:] it was it was a big western I mean I think Roseanne Arquett was in it too another one that if you blink you'd miss her uh it was and I think it was like a three hour movie or two and a half hours and and it was one of those ones that could have been four hours if they hadn't cut a lot out
[speaker002:] oh really
[speaker001:] um but it was it was really good um
[speaker002:] I I might have seen part of that because the name sounds familiar although I would I would remember I think in with him in it
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] how about Revenge did you see that with him
[speaker001:] no I didn't is that any good
[speaker002:] with uh Anthony Quinn I thought it was I like everything he's done so far
[speaker001:] oh okay
[speaker002:] you know it's uh one of those movies that it's not a great movie but it was okay
[speaker001:] yeah we were in the video store today and somebody was recommending it to somebody you know the the people who run the video store was recommending it to somebody else
[speaker002:] yeah it was it was not a bad movie
[speaker001:] huh well I'll have to catch it one of these days you say you you said you seen No Way Out
[speaker002:] yeah that was excellent
[speaker001:] yeah that was very good um he was in The Untouchables too
[speaker002:] now that's another one I wanted to see that in fact that was advertised not too long ago
[speaker001:] he yeah it was on um it
[speaker002:] cable
[speaker001:] no it was on one of the networks I think last weekend
[speaker002:] okay I know I saw yeah something about it
[speaker001:] uh or two weeks ago yeah I um I wish I I mean I'd seen it when when you know it was originally in the theaters and um
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] I saw it you know I saw part of it again I mean I like you know I like Costner I like Sean Connery and uh there's this one there's this one actor it's really silly that I enjoy him a lot but I I've really enjoyed him in everything I've seen him in a guy named Charles Martin Smith
[speaker002:] I don't know him
[speaker001:] um you've probably seen him and just an you know oh that's who the guy is do you remember did you ever see American Graffiti
[speaker002:] no I I don't think so
[speaker001:] oh did you ever see the movie Star Man
[speaker002:] yes
[speaker001:] okay in Star Man he was the guy chasing after um Jeff Bridges and Karen Allen or Nancy Allen you know with short nerdy guy with glasses he's
[speaker002:] okay okay yeah yeah
[speaker001:] he's just I I don't know why but he's always a lot of fun in every movie he's in he was in the Untouchables he was the accountant
[speaker002:] oh oh I know who you mean he was in uh uh Honey Don't Shrink the Kids wasn't he
[speaker001:] yeah no no you're thinking of Rick Moranis he looks like Rick Moranis but he's not
[speaker002:] oh okay see all right yeah that's the one I was thinking of but I have I've seen quite a few movies I I enjoy them I think that uh it's it's kind of like uh good entertainment an uh an escape type of thing
[speaker001:] yeah yeah
[speaker002:] how about some of the ads do you go by the ads when you look at them or the reviews do they influence you a lot
[speaker001:] uh a little of a review usually won't make me go see a movie I hadn't already wanted to see
[speaker002:] yeah did you see Goodfellas
[speaker001:] no it's oh uh I want to see it
[speaker002:] that was that was pretty good um and
[speaker001:] um we want to see Godfather Part Three also but my my girlfriend's seen part one and part two although she saw them years ago but I've never seen either of the first you know
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] of the of the Godfather movies so we're probably going to like rent those some time and then try to see Godfather Part Three somewhere
[speaker002:] I was just going to say that you should see those first uh first if you can
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] if you if you read the book it's uh even better the book was excellent
[speaker001:] oh okay I haven't
[speaker002:] yeah and uh I was a little disappointed in the third one it's Godfather Three it was not bad but I expected more I think
[speaker001:] never read it uh-huh we just rented um a couple weeks ago a movie called The Freshmen with um it's got Matthew Broderick in it and um uh Marlon Brando And Brando like does a parody of the character he played in The Godfather
[speaker002:] oh really
[speaker001:] um yeah it's it's one of the reasons why you know The Godfather's been on our minds lately um but uh there's a bunch of scenes from uh uh from The Godfather that's used because Matthew Broderick's going to film school and uh in his classes they're using there's a bunch they're running a bunch of scenes from The Godfather and then he's running into Marlon Brando who is playing you know this Mafia you know this uh organized crime head
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] so it's um it was it was a fun movie
[speaker002:] how about Tom Cruise do you like his stuff Cocktails or uh what
[speaker001:] I liked Rainman I thought I thought it was interesting that he was doing something
[speaker002:] oh yeah that was good I liked Rainman too
[speaker001:] yeah well I'm being from Baltimore of course I'm a big Barry Levinson fan since uh he he's you know he's done a bunch of Baltimore movies
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] um no I don't Barry Levinson did um Diner and Tinman and Avalon which are all set in Baltimore
[speaker002:] yeah they sound familiar I probably saw parts of those you know a lot of times I'll watch I'll start watching a movie and I'm tired and it next thing you know it's it's especially if there's commercial in it
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] and then the titles might sound familiar but I really don't know what they're all about
[speaker001:] yeah well yeah of the three of those Diner's probably the best I mean they're they're all pretty good but Diner is really worth seeing
[speaker002:] is that the one set in the fifties or sixties
[speaker001:] uh late fifties yeah
[speaker002:] late fifties yeah I think I saw that one
[speaker001:] okay and uh yeah
[speaker002:] how about Meryl Streep

[speaker001:] all right I think that gets us off to discussing the topic for tonight
[speaker002:] which is movies correct
[speaker001:] that is correct are you a movie buff
[speaker002:] okay um yeah I don't like going to see them in the theaters but outside of that rent a lot watch them on TV mostly
[speaker001:] well I have a VCR and I see most all of mine there what have you seen recently that you enjoyed
[speaker002:] uh I don't know um actually earlier tonight we were watching To Live and Die in LA have you seen that movie
[speaker001:] no I haven't
[speaker002:] it's a kind of one of those psycho ones
[speaker001:] now I I live alone consequently I don't like these things psycho things
[speaker002:] oh it's not too bad one of those cop thrillers but
[speaker001:] oh okay have you seen the movie if do you have a VCR
[speaker002:] yes we do
[speaker001:] have you seen the movie Class Action with Gene Hackman
[speaker002:] uh no I haven't yet
[speaker001:] I saw it this weekend and it is uh to me an outstanding outstanding movie I thoroughly enjoyed it he is uh an attorney and his daughter is an attorney and she has a suit against his company you know it's one of those things but there's a lot of
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] well well it's just it's something that anyone can watch and enjoy
[speaker002:] yeah he's a good actor though
[speaker001:] beg pardon
[speaker002:] um Gene Hackman's a good actor I think uh do you see Hoosiers
[speaker001:] yes he is yes I've seen Hoosiers saw it just again the other night for my
[speaker002:] yeah actually I we saw her just the other night too
[speaker001:] oh did you
[speaker002:] yeah and it's one of our favorite movies I I live with um a roommate and my girlfriend the three of us we've seen that movie probably six times in the last six months
[speaker001:] have you seen the movie um Crossing Delancey
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] now that's one I have watched oh six or eight times I always feel so good when I get through with that movie
[speaker002:] yeah I like those movies that you watch time and time again
[speaker001:] I do too Dirty Dancing and Crossing Delancey are two of my favorite so well what business are you in
[speaker002:] I'm I'm an electrical engineer
[speaker001:] oh in New Hampshire all right
[speaker002:] I work in Massachusetts actually
[speaker001:] oh all right okay so is everything going all right up there
[speaker002:] um it's only about um half an hour I live with on the border
[speaker001:] oh well that's not bad then if half an hour we do that just going to downtown Dallas
[speaker002:] that's right
[speaker001:] so
[speaker002:] see we live up in tax free New Hampshire and drive down to Massachusetts to work
[speaker001:] that makes a lot of sense but um we are you a native of that part of the country
[speaker002:] yeah I I grew up in New Hampshire it seems southern town it's called Portsmouth it's I don't know fifteen minutes from the Mass border and five minutes from the main border we live right in the corner
[speaker001:] oh
[speaker002:] that one little spot in New Hampshire we have ten miles of coastline I live on one of those that little ten mile spot
[speaker001:] uh sounds wonderful did you have damage this year with hurricanes
[speaker002:] not up um where I live but further down the coast in Massachusetts they they got hit pretty bad
[speaker001:] I happened to be in Nassau and we got the backlash of that thing and they had record high waves thirty year high waves come in there and it was quite an experience so well what movies are you looking forward to seeing now
[speaker002:] um well I'm I'm only twenty seven years old so The Doors movie that's out on video I wanna watch that
[speaker001:] okay have you seen Green Card
[speaker002:] that would be pretty good no I haven't seen that one
[speaker001:] that's a real warm movie it it really just turned out nicely so I would recommend that if you have a chance
[speaker002:] I'm in for it we rent a lot of movies so we we often sit around and say what movies should we rent and we don't know
[speaker001:] well if you if you can get Green Card go for it
[speaker002:] all right we'll try that one
[speaker001:] I have been working at uh as an accountant at the medical school here in Dallas and I have watched um Gross Anatomy have you seen that one
[speaker002:] yeah I did
[speaker001:] okay and I don't know I can associate with some of the people in that movie because of the young students I see over at the medical school but I hope you have a very merry Christmas
[speaker002:] you too
[speaker001:] I'm looking forward to it
[speaker002:] I think we're going to have a white Christmas up here just like the song says
[speaker001:] well

[speaker001:] Okay. Um, I guess if I had to rate it from one to ten, I guess,
[speaker002:] [Noise].
[speaker001:] I would rate it a five in the aspect that I wouldn't want everybody to have guns and I think there should be limitations of, like semiautomatics. Uh, things like that should not be just given out to anybody. In fact, you know, I can't imagine [talking] anybody having a semiautomatic for what purpose. Uh,
[speaker002:] [Noise].
[speaker001:] so I guess, you know, being that I come from a hunting family
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] [Talking] I'd rather have some restrictions put on weapons but yet allow hunting rifles, uh, things that people would use for sporting type of, uh, a, activity. Those would be fine but when you get into a, a lot of the more complex weapons, I would say yes we need to put restrictions on them [talking].
[speaker002:] [Clanging] Uh, that's pro-, I probably would have to agree with you pretty much all the way I think.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Uh, I definitely think that there, some things shouldn't be limited like, like you said, rifles and
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] uh, hunting rifles and [clanging] possible handguns for people who use them to,
[speaker001:] Exactly, for self-protection, sure.
[speaker002:] Right. And, but I think the, I think semiautomatic weapons, people say [clanging] they use them because it, for sport. But I, I personally cannot see any use for them
[speaker001:] I can't imagine that. Yeah.
[speaker002:] other than, uh, for, for, like people who dislike have some sort of crazed
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] you know, ambition to use, have high powered weapons or something.
[speaker001:] To do massive amounts of killing, uh,
[speaker002:] Right. And
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] I mean, you can only, how much do you wa-,
[speaker001:] The only thing that I can see is the police having it in a case where somebody is, uh, uh, you know, going to kill a massive amount of people or, uh, somebody that's escaping, that's, uh, very dangerous
[speaker002:] [Clanging] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] semiautomatic would allow more rounds to be put out to hopefully catch the person and, and, uh, get him down.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] But, uh, you know, I, I think of my family. Uh, they're very much into sporting [NOISE] and, uh, you know, [talking] as far as hunting and also like, uh, clay pigeons
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] things like that.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] So they have may have some shotguns. They may have other type of, uh, hunting type things, but I figured if the, if the criminals had to take a hunting gun [LAUGHTER] out to kill somebody, more than likely, somebody would see it, you know what I'm saying
[speaker002:] Right, yeah.
[speaker001:] versus a, you know, a small handgun, uh,
[speaker002:] Yeah, that's true.
[speaker001:] that can be, you know, put right in your coat pocket and nobody would see it,
[speaker002:] [Clanging].
[speaker001:] but yet, you can't stop people from having, you know, a handgun in their home.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] Even if there are small children around, there's, you know,
[speaker002:] [Clanging].
[speaker001:] you can't say people with small children can't have guns [talking]
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and people without small children that may have grandchildren, you know
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] still have these guns but
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] uh, I guess I, I was always taught,
[speaker002:] [Clanging].
[speaker001:] number one, [NOISE] a gun isn't a toy.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] Uh, you know, and I don't know if that makes a difference if the parent sets down to them and say this gun can kill you, you know
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and don't ever play with it.
[speaker002:] [Clanging] Right.
[speaker001:] Uh, so I don't know if that makes a difference or what but,
[speaker002:] Well, I think par-, uh, in that ca-, I think that cases like that it's definitely, um, I think if you're [clanging] to say okay, we have to get rid of them all because
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] you know, they can only, they only seem to do bad, [dishes] it, it's, uh, it's saying we're t-,
[speaker001:] The criminals would get them. I mean even if they had to go across border to get them.
[speaker002:] Right, right. And people who, people who have them and are responsible with them are, are, are being punished and people who
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] and they're saying that [clanging] people you cannot take care of things yourself or like that you're [clanging] not smart enough to teach your kids how to, how to, uh,.
[speaker001:] How to use, you know, to make sure the guns [talking] are put up as something as
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] uh, not a toy.
[speaker002:] Right [clanging].
[speaker001:] Yeah. Because we had guns all over our house when we were kids
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and not that they were laying on the, uh, couch or anything like that
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] but, uh, I never had an interest in them,
[speaker002:] [Clanging].
[speaker001:] being in the fact that I knew that guns could kill
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and I had four brothers and never messed with any type of guns
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] and so it was kind of the idea that we knew that a gun could kill and that a gun wasn't a toy
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] and, of course [talking], we were quite young and we went through,
[speaker002:] [Clanging].
[speaker001:] uh, the National Rifle, uh, Club [talking]
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and so we were taught, you know, kind of at a, a good age, ten and eleven and twelve, to sit down with a kid and say okay, if you're going to learn how to shoot a gun, you're going to learn how to do it correctly and you're going to learn how to have safeguards and
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and know how to protect yourself but yet have this,
[speaker002:] [Clanging].
[speaker001:] [Noise] training so that kids aren't [talking], you know, they have to have a certain respect for it.
[speaker002:] Right. Well I think, I mean we, I grew up in a family and, and my father had two guns
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] because he used to hunt years ago but
[speaker001:] Sure.
[speaker002:] he stopped before, really before I was old enough to remember.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] But, and I knew we had the guns in the house and, th-, the time my father was keeping them just for protection at the time [clanging]
[speaker001:] Sure, yeah.
[speaker002:] but we, it was never, my brothers, sisters nor I never, I mean none of us ever thought well let's go look at the gun or let's go get the gun it was just something you knew was there
[speaker001:] Yes.
[speaker002:] and th-, it was your father's and y-, you, that was not something you'd go and play, played with at all
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] and I think maybe, uh, and that's the type of, the thing that should be, you know, stressed.
[speaker001:] Yeah, I think so an-, and I don't know if the kids nowadays are different than what [talking],

[speaker001:] set
[speaker002:] okay
[speaker001:] you you got the topic right okay um well where in Dallas are you
[speaker002:] yeah I'm in Richardson
[speaker001:] oh okay so you do recycling do recycling there okay
[speaker002:] yeah Richardson has um well they have a newspaper pick up once a week supposedly if it's not raining
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] and they also have a couple of areas where you can take uh cans plastic and paper to uh you know dump them off there if you don't uh want to wait and have a pick up least of paper but they don't pick up the other items they don't pick up cans or the plastic
[speaker001:] um-hum are they going to later or do you know
[speaker002:] I'm not sure they only started to do the newspaper uh late last year just try like a trial basis and see how it goes so I don't know if they're going to pick up the other things
[speaker001:] uh-huh hm well I'm I'm in Dallas proper in the city of Dallas and I know they do have you know a pilot program going on but it's not here
[speaker002:] what about you um-hum um
[speaker001:] so they're not picking up anything so I mean we we collect everything we've got all these boxes in our garage for you know green glass and clear glass and plastic and everything
[speaker002:] oh where do you take them
[speaker001:] but um well there's there's a couple places unfortunately we can't find a place that'll take everything
[speaker002:] hm
[speaker001:] um there's a lot of places to take like the plastic um shopping bags like most of the grocery stores and there's a Wal-Mart nearby that takes almost everything I can't remember what it is they don't take
[speaker002:] uh-huh uh-huh hm
[speaker001:] and the library will take glass so we end up you know on the weekend we pack it all in the car and and as we go places we oh wait we can drop the glass off you know drop things off one at a time
[speaker002:] oh
[speaker001:] but um and it's kind of disappointing I mean I would even be happy if they just had one you know one place where you could do everything you know it would still be more convenient than what we have now
[speaker002:] one of the people from my department I think used to take a lot of the stuff to a recycling center that was for the benefit of the Dallas Shelter
[speaker001:] hm where is that
[speaker002:] I think that was closer to downtown uh she's not here anymore but uh yeah
[speaker001:] oh I'm pretty far north I'm not I'm I'm I'm just I'm north of Addison actually
[speaker002:] oh
[speaker001:] so I'm I'm really I'm sort I'm in Dallas but only technically
[speaker002:] yeah well sometimes we take our uh we we always keep our aluminum cans and a lot of times they take them over to one of these can banks
[speaker001:] uh-huh yeah yeah I've seen those
[speaker002:] you don't get too much money back I figure it pays for the gas to take my cans over there but normally I collect oh like three trash bags full
[speaker001:] yeah yep
[speaker002:] and I take them over to that can bank and it's more fun just to kind of like crunch the cans in the can bank you don't get too much money for them but
[speaker001:] uh-huh  well you get something
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] uh we used to do that but again that's another stop and it doesn't take plastic bags and and all that sort of thing but um
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] I think that you know I heard that it was going well in the pilot area wherever that is and so hopefully they'll do it soon that would be good because we have two trash pick ups a week
[speaker002:] um-hum uh-huh
[speaker001:] where I grew up we only had one a week and that was certainly sufficient so if they just do one of them will be trash and the alternate time would do recyclables that'd be great
[speaker002:] yeah yeah
[speaker001:] so I hope they do
[speaker002:] ah I'm disappointed sometimes they're not always consistent in picking up those papers you know I seem to put them out there on Wednesday and like sometimes they come by
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] sometimes they don't I'm not really sure why they're not always consistent in that
[speaker001:] oh hm
[speaker002:] but I could certainly have uh three bins out there for you know plastic and and tin and paper whatever they were going to uh separate into and and have them pick it up on on one of the two days per week that would be easy
[speaker001:] right yeah do you have to um sort the paper and take out the glossy pages and that that sort of thing or do they take the whole thing
[speaker002:] you're not supposed to have like the coupons in there
[speaker001:] oh okay
[speaker002:] um or you're not supposed to put magazines in there and you can't take newspapers now at work
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] uh you know we have changed our recycling at first they were kind of finicky about what kind of paper you could recycle and not too long ago they finally decided if it's anything that's paper and tears you can throw it in there because at first they said
[speaker001:] let me guess you work at TI right
[speaker002:] yeah at first they said they said no telephone books
[speaker001:] so do I yeah
[speaker002:] you know that well that's stupid and then they said no newspapers well in the my department everybody gets the Wall Street Journal
[speaker001:] I know yeah
[speaker002:] there was like a lot of paper coming out of our department that wasn't recyclable so I thought that was pretty good to expand upon it and say anything paper
[speaker001:] yeah well they and they take cans now too which is great
[speaker002:] yeah I still put my cans in with the cans I think I don't want it with paper somehow it just seems weird to me
[speaker001:] well our department used to collect the cans anyway for the Christmas tree project
[speaker002:] oh
[speaker001:] and in fact we got this past year we got all of our money for the Christmas tree because we saved cans for the entire year
[speaker002:] oh
[speaker001:] and it worked out really well
[speaker002:] well we had the the one person who used to take things to the Dallas Shelter I think that's what that was called
[speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh
[speaker002:] she collected she used to collect from the whole department but she took them all down to that Dallas Shelter place
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] I wish I could remember that whole name of that place but it's a charity for the benefit of this shelter
[speaker001:] uh-huh um-hum
[speaker002:] uh yeah she used she used to collect them from everybody in the department she'd go up and down with her little bag collecting from everybody
[speaker001:] yeah yep yep because we would get it

[speaker001:] Okay, Diane. And a very good afternoon to you.
[speaker002:] And aft-, good afternoon to you.
[speaker001:] Do you, uh, do most of your cooking at home or do you, uh, have a lot of people come in and have to prepare for them?
[speaker002:] [Throat clearing] Um, no. I do most of my cooking at home and, um, I could safely say that I have never cooked for a dinner party.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh. My goodness [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Well, what would you, uh, like to cook? What's, what, what's, what is your favorite, uh, recipes, uh, that you would like to have
[speaker002:] Um,
[speaker001:] for a dinner party? Now you're in Dallas, is it?
[speaker002:] Right, I'm in Dallas.
[speaker001:] Okay.
[speaker002:] Of course, um, dinner parties down here probably, oh, turn out to be more things like barbecues [LAUGHTER]. And,
[speaker001:] I was, I was thinking in terms of Mexican almost,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh, yes.
[speaker001:] Tex-, Tex-Mex.
[speaker002:] Yeah, uh, Tex-Mex, uh, Mexican food, um
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] probably a little bit different than what you serve up in Pennsylvania for a dinner party.
[speaker001:] Well, that's a very interesting food though and when I go out to eat dinner sometimes
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] that's the type of foods I like to find.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] We have, uh, I think som-, Chico's or, or in these different restaurants
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] in this area that, uh, have all this fine Mexican foods. But, um, if I were to cook, uh, a dinner party, uh, it may be standard to you but, uh, actually I never get too much fried chicken.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] Fried chicken.
[speaker001:] But I would have fried chicken, uh, with reasonably hot sauce on it.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Almost a Mexican type thing. And I love twice cooked potatoes. Have you ever had twice cooked potatoes?
[speaker002:] [Throat clearing] Oh, yes, I have.
[speaker001:] With, with a cream made of the, the sour cream and cream cheese and, uh, a little oleo and I use, uh, oregano and
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] maybe dill weed, uh, mixed in with it.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] And, uh, I like broccoli casseroles
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] which would include onion and cheese and, and more dill weed
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and some medium hot peppers. As you can see, I'm inclined towards the Mexican type of a meal [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Right [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] And I would probably have some quiet and gentle fried onion rings mixed in there with it too.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] So, uh, how would you improve upon that?
[speaker002:] Oh, [gasp] improve upon that? Let's see. I'd probably put a bunch of fresh vegetables in. And some,
[speaker001:] More fresh vegetables?
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Included to that?
[speaker002:] Uh, green beans and, uh
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] carrots and things like that.
[speaker001:] How do you cook your green beans?
[speaker002:] My green beans?
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Um, I just get fresh green beans from the grocery store and snap off the ends and put them in water and steam them for about ten minutes.
[speaker001:] So you h-,
[speaker002:] And I like to put a little Mrs Dash in with them.
[speaker001:] All right that's what I was wondering about. What, what you use and, and
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] in herbs and so forth.
[speaker002:] Right, uh-huh. Um, I like to just put a tablespoon or so of Mrs Dash in there.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And it makes them pretty tasty.
[speaker001:] Have you ever tried Chinese type green beans?
[speaker002:] The Chinese type. Are they the real,
[speaker001:] We use soy sauce,
[speaker002:] No, I haven't ever used that.
[speaker001:] Well, you might, uh, be interested in that. Have, it gives a very delicious taste. You, you have a soy sauce taste and you also have a little cream sauce in there because you
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] you would use the, uh, water and, uh, [lipsmack] golly. What's this white powder that, that, uh, that you mix with water
[speaker002:] A white powder.
[speaker001:] and gives a thick sauce? I can't even think of the name of that right at the moment.
[speaker002:] Um, gosh.
[speaker001:] Anyhow [LAUGHTER],
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] sorry about my mind.
[speaker002:] That's okay.
[speaker001:] But, uh, it does make a nice thick creamy sauce with the green beans
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and then you have a nice soy sauce taste under it with a few onions in there with it. If it does
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] it, it brings out such a, so much different things in, uh
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] in the string beans. I, I like it to try them differently. I hardly ever cook them the same way twice.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Just so I can enjoy them. So you might, uh, think about that.
[speaker002:] Yeah, I might try that.
[speaker001:] Chinese cooking actually has a lot of very delicious tastes to them.
[speaker002:] Oh, yes. I love Chinese.
[speaker001:] And, uh, north African cooking is good
[speaker002:] North African?
[speaker001:] when you use something called couscous.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] And that's, uh, made from, uh, I think they call it, beans. And that's the type of something that whatever you mix with it this couscous, uh, absorbs the taste of whatever else you put in it where that makes a very delicious dish. You probably have to buy that from specialty stores.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] C o u s, c o u s. And that's a, a north African dish. They eat it one to two meals everyday
[speaker002:] Huh.
[speaker001:] in north Africa. And it is very very flexible. You can do a lot of things with it. It makes a fantastic, uh, uh, salad with cucumbers and,
[speaker002:] [Throat clearing].
[speaker001:] olive oil and onions and,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Oh, boy, real tasty. Well, I've enjoyed talking with you, and I hope I've
[speaker002:] Well, I've enjoyed
[speaker001:] given you some ideas
[speaker002:] talking with you.
[speaker001:] and, uh, that's one thing we can enjoy is good delicious food.
[speaker002:] Oh, yes.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Well, thank you very much Miss Diane.
[speaker002:] Okay, thank you.
[speaker001:] Bye-bye.
[speaker002:] Bye-bye.

[speaker001:] Well, do you have any pets?
[speaker002:] Yes I do. I have a dog named Grisly, who's a ten year old, uh, mixed breed between Golden Retriever, Afghan Hound and Chow.
[speaker001:] Oh.
[speaker002:] And I have a pair of box turtles.
[speaker001:] Oh,
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] I used to have box turtles, um, well, years ago, when I was growing up
[speaker002:] Yeah,
[speaker001:] I, I really like them.
[speaker002:] Oh, yeah, I do, too. Lucky and Spot, that's their names
[speaker001:] Oh.
[speaker002:] and they live in an aquarium without water in my family room, and my dog thinks he's a mother turtle,
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] and always has his nose all around my turtle box, so do you have any pets now?
[speaker001:] Yes, um, we have one dog, a Bichon Frise. Um, our friends in Houston bred the dogs. I had never heard of them
[speaker002:] No, I haven't either.
[speaker001:] they're, um, they're all white and they're small, and, um, and fluffy, they don't shed. I guess they're distantly related to a poodle, but they're not very well known in this country, and they're not, um, high strung or over bred
[speaker002:] Oh.
[speaker001:] um.
[speaker002:] And how big do they get.
[speaker001:] Ours is, uh, on the small end, and she's about ten pounds, and they range from probably ten to sixteen pounds
[speaker002:] Oh, that's interesting.
[speaker001:] and they love people, um, and kids and that was something we were looking for, um, our, our love is Golden Retrievers, and that's what we had intended to get in Houston, but we had a small yard and a pool and knowing how they love to dig
[speaker002:] Ye-, the water, yes.
[speaker001:] and love the water, um, and we thought that was kind of a tough climate
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] so, uh, we ended up getting this, and, uh, my son would rather have a Golden Retriever, though, I think [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] Oh.
[speaker001:] now he wants a, a good size dog [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Uh-huh, well, we've got a good size dog, and we were considering getting a puppy, a small house, lap top dog for him, because he likes other animals and for me, because we used to have a miniature Dachshund, and I miss
[speaker001:] Oh.
[speaker002:] having a little one
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] you know, around. The kind you have sounds very interesting, though.
[speaker001:] Well, they really are, um, they're really sweet dogs. We've, uh, we thought probably our neighborhood in Houston had more of this breed than any other place just because of, um, the family that had them and, and bred them. They had five litters of puppies, and
[speaker002:] Oh.
[speaker001:] and a lot of them stayed in the neighborhood
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] because, um,
[speaker002:] And how do you spell that breed?
[speaker001:] It's B I C H O N F R I S E.
[speaker002:] F R I S E. And how do you pronounce that?
[speaker001:] Bichon Frise.
[speaker002:] Okay. I'm writing it out phonetically,
[speaker001:] Yeah. They're, uh, and they don't shed so they're, they're good dogs for people with, with
[speaker002:] Yes,
[speaker001:] allergies, and they love people, and they're,
[speaker002:] Do they bark a lot?
[speaker001:] Um, no, not really. Ours, um, ours barks more than, um, than some, because she spent a lot of time at our friends' house. We used to swap back and forth dogs. they have three dogs. They had a Cockapoo, and, and two Bichons
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] um, and she didn't bark at all until she spent time there
[speaker002:] Oh.
[speaker001:] and, uh, now it's funny. She's, she's a good watch dog
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and if there's, she'll bark that way, but she also talks a lot, she
[speaker002:] Yes.
[speaker001:] um, has a definite personality and so, if we're leaving her, she barks at us, because
[speaker002:] Oh.
[speaker001:] she doesn't want to be left. Um.
[speaker002:] Does she ever mess in the house?
[speaker001:] No, no, and they're, um, they're very smart dogs. The circuses in Europe used to use them
[speaker002:] Oh.
[speaker001:] um, for the acts. They, uh, oh, they'll dance
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] on their hind legs each
[speaker002:] Oh, gee.
[speaker001:] um, but they're very easy to train
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and,
[speaker002:] And about how much are they?
[speaker001:] Well, they range, I'd noticed up here they're a lot more expensive it seemed to me from the ads in the paper. They run anywhere from two hundred to four hundred dollars, I think
[speaker002:] And how about the,
[speaker001:] which I thought was a lot.
[speaker002:] And how about the person in, uh, Houston?
[speaker001:] Well, she's no longer breeding them
[speaker002:] Oh.
[speaker001:] but, um, because her dogs, um, the, the second one that she has was one of the puppies from the litter, and, uh, the one male that she used had a tooth problem
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and so she only bred that dog once because it had
[speaker002:] Oh, yes.
[speaker001:] the tooth problem, and did them strictly as, um, pets, you know
[speaker002:] Just pets,
[speaker001:] they weren't, weren't show quality.
[speaker002:] Yes, that's what we'd rather have is just a pet, instead of
[speaker001:] Ri-,
[speaker002:] we used to show Saint Bernards when I was a little girl. We did that every weekend,
[speaker001:] Oh, but, yeah, takes a lot of time.
[speaker002:] Yes, and it's very expensive.
[speaker001:] Yeah, um, but she might have some contacts here, I know origina-, I know that the dog's grandmother, um, was from Plano,
[speaker002:] Oh, that's where I live,
[speaker001:] Oh, that's where I live, too.
[speaker002:] Yeah, I'm at Coit and Legacy...

[speaker002:] well let's see my husband does the majority of the um the uh gardening um taking care of the lawn and fertilizing but I um tend to all the planting the annuals and and the spraying and um taking care of them and maybe putting flowers in you know throughout that season and later on maybe planting some mums and that kind of stuff and um any kind of decorating for the holidays you know I'll fix the porch up with pumpkins for Halloween and Christmas but basically he does all the heavy stuff and I do all the fun stuff
[speaker001:] well we have it just opposite here my wife works in you know at at at the TI and she's uh sedentary all day long
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] so when she gets home she likes to mow
[speaker002:] I say
[speaker001:] and we have about ten acres and she tries to mow about half of it
[speaker002:] wow wow that's a a big job
[speaker001:] well yeah it keeps uh well it's doing real well because when we got this place the the dirt was just overgrazed
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] I mean you know it was bare dirt in a lot of places
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] and now you know since we've been mowing it and you know of course we water a little bit but that's just too much to water all at once but
[speaker002:] oh sure
[speaker001:] but just by keeping it mowed and getting it mulched in we've reclaimed a lot of it
[speaker002:] oh I bet it's beautiful
[speaker001:] yeah but we don't do much in the way of uh flowers we have one little flower garden that we that we work with the rest of it is just like wild flowers
[speaker002:] um-hum wild flowers
[speaker001:] and in the summertime we get the prettiest yellow flowers
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] they're about oh I guess a third the size of your palm of your hand
[speaker002:] um-hum oh that sounds lovely
[speaker001:] and of course in the spring we get the bluebonnets and Indian paintbrush
[speaker002:] uh-huh oh the wild flowers are beautiful I think um I was thinking about throwing some for in the back just where the kids um just way in the back behind the swing sets so that just have some wild flowers growing back there would be real pretty then you don't really have to have much maintenance involved
[speaker001:] yeah well my wife and I really enjoy that sort of thing
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] uh she enjoys mowing I can't believe it
[speaker002:] uh-huh I know a lot of uh-huh a lot of women do uh um I've just never really you know maybe one of these days I'll have to get out there and mow but
[speaker001:] I mean I hate it
[speaker002:] my husband takes that and I'll help rake up the grass and um sometimes I'll help him edge um because we don't have that much property but we're on a corner lot so there's a lot of edging to do and um
[speaker001:] right yeah
[speaker002:] uh that's what's nice about living more in the country you don't have to worry about any of that
[speaker001:] we don't even have any concrete or asphalt
[speaker002:] oh oh that's nice I this is different for us because the other the past we've had homes that haven't had any side walks and um it's been a little more country with the trees and we do miss that um if we had a chance to move I think we'd move back to somewhere that it was little more countrified and a little less maintenance required
[speaker001:] yeah but you know we do everything together this this spring we got a thousand pine trees from the actually this fall what am I talking about two weeks ago
[speaker002:] as as far as that goes um-hum wow
[speaker001:] we got a thousand pine trees from the you know soil and conservation people
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] and uh we're in the process of of planting
[speaker002:] wow that's a
[speaker001:] and we're building a stand uh just to the north and along the east uh property line
[speaker002:] um
[speaker001:] and I uh I think what we're what we're trying to do is create sort of a wind break
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] because I'll tell you in winter time when that wind when that wind comes out of the north it just cuts right through you like you're not even there
[speaker002:] right right
[speaker001:] so on the other side of the house though that's where we have all the the delicate flowers and the mums and we have morning glory and we have trumpet vine and moon flowers
[speaker002:] well I took um-hum
[speaker001:] and we planted those out by the septic so that uh they get plenty of water and we get hummingbirds come in the spring you know all summer long
[speaker002:] uh-huh oh oh that sounds so pretty
[speaker001:] and well when we leave the doors open they fly in the house
[speaker002:] oh really do they don't do any damage though they just fly right back out if you have the
[speaker001:] well yeah they don't like it in here because there's nothing to eat
[speaker002:] I say
[speaker001:] and when you're as busy as one of those babies you got to eat most of the time
[speaker002:] I say
[speaker001:] and we've got a few you know we put up some hummingbird feeders and some bird feeders but
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] you know for the most part gardening for us is well we got asparagus and uh we've got some plum trees and some apple trees and some tomato
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] and some blackberries and strawberries man we get the best strawberries that you just can't believe
[speaker002:] oh oh that sounds wonderful
[speaker001:] yeah we just got our last tomatoes
[speaker002:] oh I love home grown grown tomatoes there's nothing like them they just don't have the same ones in the supermarket
[speaker001:] yeah well these are accidental tomatoes
[speaker002:] what does that mean accidental tomatoes
[speaker001:] well last year the birds came and ate a few of the tomatoes course you're gonna lose some that way
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] and the seeds go right through them
[speaker002:] I say
[speaker001:] and wherever they pooped

[speaker001:] do you wanna tell me about your budgeting plan
[speaker002:] yeah our budgeting plans includes me getting a job we're we're at the point now I I uh I quit working about six months ago to start this house
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] and I'm out of cash and I'm not out of project yet
[speaker001:] oh no
[speaker002:] so uh I'm gonna go back and do some consulting work as far as budget's concerned I'm I'm fairly fortunate uh we've we're right now where if we don't buy anything extra we can make it on what my wife makes so uh the project's kind of halted until then as far as budgeting is concerned you know we have uh some pretty strict guidelines that we go for you know we always put ten percent back and that's a never touch
[speaker001:] uh into savings
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] huh
[speaker002:] either savings or investment one of the two but we don't ever put it at a high risk it's just always gonna be there
[speaker001:] well that's pretty good
[speaker002:] and as far as the rest of it's concerned we don't have any kind of uh what I would call extravagant expenses you know uh we uh we pretty much live on about eight nine hundred a month you know just travel to and from work and clothing and food
[speaker001:] boy that's pretty good
[speaker002:] and the rest of it you know we pile into the house and uh you know I'm fairly fortunate I mean our credit cards are out to the max right now because I'm
[speaker001:] sure
[speaker002:] a little a little behind on that but uh we're still making the payments on them it's just uh when you see in Texas you cannot borrow the money to build your own home and do it yourself
[speaker001:] yeah it's it's tough here too you have to have the contractor sign with you
[speaker002:] right exactly
[speaker001:] but it's easy to find a contractor for a couple of hundred bucks who'll sign it and let you do it here in Utah where I live that is
[speaker002:] yeah and where I live it it's pretty scary because Texas is one of those strange states where if you have a contractor sign on your note like that and you screw up you don't get it finished the bank can eat the contractor
[speaker001:] uh-huh oh bad for him huh
[speaker002:] yeah bad for him but the homeowner can't be touched it's a homestead state
[speaker001:] hum is that right
[speaker002:] yeah see right now if I quit paying any of my bills the only thing they could do is cut off the electricity they can't take your land unless you don't pay your land taxes period
[speaker001:] wow
[speaker002:] you know they take your car and your clothes and your anything that's not the tools of your trade but as far as uh you know  you're pretty much bullet proof in this state
[speaker001:] well that's kind of handy
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] I just finished James Michener's Texas book pretty interesting
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] Texas has quite the history
[speaker002:] well you know we're we're not ones to budget much you know we just got to spend it all
[speaker001:] that's kind of what we do we uh we're LDS and so we pay ten percent tithing
[speaker002:] um-hum um-hum
[speaker001:] and then I know we put I guess it's like fifteen to twenty percent into a savings account
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] but that sometimes we use for emergency type things
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] but uh and my wife doesn't work we're fortunate that way that I make enough to do what we wanna do
[speaker002:] yeah yeah we're pretty pretty fortunate as far as the uh the budgeting is concerned because you know we don't have any long term debt you know uh we paid cash for car well we bought the car on time one of them but we you know we since paid it off and
[speaker001:] well that's pretty
[speaker002:] the land is paid for cash so we don't have to worry about that
[speaker001:] that's a great position to be in
[speaker002:] well it's fraught with other problems
[speaker001:] is that right
[speaker002:] yeah I'm not very motivated
[speaker001:] oh what kind of consulting do you do
[speaker002:] uh systems consulting computerization for construction firms
[speaker001:] is that right I'm into computers too I I'm a E D P auditor
[speaker002:] yeah are you oh
[speaker001:] and
[speaker002:] you into mainframes
[speaker001:] yeah and PCs
[speaker002:] and oh really
[speaker001:] yeah I'm just brushing up on well C plus plus
[speaker002:] are you really
[speaker001:] uh-huh and
[speaker002:] I just got that a few days ago
[speaker001:] trio
[speaker002:] oh jeez don't get me to lying I bought it at a fire stale
[speaker001:] ah
[speaker002:] this guy's place burned down and he had a bunch of computer stuff and you know I bought it all it was two hundred bucks for everything he had
[speaker001:] you got a buy
[speaker002:] well some of it wasn't worth anything you know you know a lot of the uh diskettes were just totally unusable
[speaker001:] sure melted
[speaker002:] well yeah or wet
[speaker001:] or just wet or
[speaker002:] okay but I did get out of there with uh Vermont Views which is a huge subroutine library

[speaker001:] Okay. How do you keep up with current events?
[speaker002:] Um, well actually, usually, uh, in the mornings I am getting ready to either go to work, uh, usually catch the news in the morning.
[speaker001:] Yeah, what what channel do you watch or what station?
[speaker002:] Uh, N B C.
[speaker001:] That's the one I watch. I usually keep up with T V. I don't, I am a student so I really don't have much time to like read the newspapers and stuff
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] so I get a lot of stuff through the grapevine which is really isn't
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] too great sometimes [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Yeah, I usually tend to just, you know, rely on, you know, T V, uh, again, you know, just through the grapevine just, just to know like, you know like what today's stories are and I usually like go out an buy a newspaper if you know I'm interested in any particular one.
[speaker001:] Yeah. The radio doesn't really have much news sometimes. The stations I listen to are just mainly music.
[speaker002:] Yeah, I think you pretty much have to listen to all news station to get any news at all.
[speaker001:] Yeah. Do you think that T V is, uh, pretty accurate. I mean sometimes do you think it gets pretty commercialized or,
[speaker002:] Well, what I really don't like about T V, especially local news as compared to like national news is just, uh, it seems, it seems like everything is very spoon feed and you know it's, it's more like the news shows is now is now you know an entertainment show like a sitcom
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] or like the news, because they would always have like the wonderful investigative reports, you know, is your kid's bus driver smoking crack,
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] on the way to school, you know?
[speaker001:] Yeah, it's they mainly go with like popular topics
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] just not like basic news.
[speaker002:] Yeah. Also, also I have the observation of, uh, with the press is that, like any any stories that I had any first hand knowledge of that I see in the press, you know, which only happened like ten times in my life
[speaker001:] Huh.
[speaker002:] you know first thing you know for anything of you know or anything that actually had, had more than just a blurb about it. That the press has managed to just mess up some aspect of the story
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] it's something wrong.
[speaker001:] Going, they're, looks like they're going more for ratings [NOISE] than for
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] you know actual news. I think, you know the [popping] probably the best source of just plain journalism would be newspapers
[speaker002:] [Tapping] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] they typically have a better. I am from a small town too here in Texas
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and so that then like local news is really who grew the biggest tomato and,
[speaker002:] Yeah, the farm report.
[speaker001:] Yeah, farm report and oil reports.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] That's pretty [tapping] pretty sad or who killed who.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh. [tapping] Also I have found that newspapers probably aren't as bad as television. Read the story and just found it so incredibly watered down and,
[speaker001:] Yeah. Well, in, uh, in Dallas, I don't know if you heard about the killing where the guy drove into Luby's and the story was, uh,
[speaker002:] Was that like he started shooting people, people in this cafeteria or something?
[speaker001:] Yeah. And the news covered it
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] right, you know, hours after it happened and they were taping people who were crying who [NOISE]
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] had everything and then like three days later this, uh, local news station was using as as their promo
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] to promote themselves. I just thought that was really that's kind of cold,
[speaker002:] Oh yeah, I have seen that happen lots of times. You know, uh, Channel X gives you the best coverage [NOISE] you know we were on the scene with our team players and,
[speaker001:] Yeah and it was just, they were showing like these dead people
[speaker002:] Uh-huh [very faint].
[speaker001:] and they were showing people crying
[speaker002:] Uh-huh [very faint].
[speaker001:] I mean just taking advantage of you know.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] .
[speaker002:] They are trying to get the, you know, most emotional response for,
[speaker001:] Yeah, it didn't seem like there was much coverage of the story, but just the play on people's emotions [NOISE]. It's just gotten so, I mean, somewhere there's, it's lost a lot of the quality that they use to have like in Walter Cronkite that if you know
[speaker002:] Yeah [tapping].
[speaker001:] and everything.
[speaker002:] Yeah, yeah. You know, I've pretty much stopped watching local news totally you know
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] uh, [NOISE] you know even the national news I just find it to be you know
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] very watered down, very,
[speaker001:] What did you think of the coverage of the war?
[speaker002:] Uh, I fou-, I found it very one sided.
[speaker001:] Did you?
[speaker002:] Uh, you know, it, it just seemed to lack any sort of debate.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] Uh, you know, not saying that we shou-, that we actually should have been there or shouldn't have been there, but it just seemed like, you know.
[speaker001:] They kept just showing, you know, how great we were doing and it never really showed what actually
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] the damage that really happened that's
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] a lot of times like the news coverage showed all the, you know, the guys who didn't get hurt coming home and all the big parties
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and they kind of you know, if they were going to show that why didn't they show the guys who
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] you know got really hurt and everything.
[speaker002:] Yeah, and I really think that you know in the involvement that the press states, you know that the the military basically sets the press,

[speaker001:] The Latin American situation in, the last development I know of was the military and financial assistance Columbia
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] for the, for the drug, uh, control. And I support that fully. I'm not sure we have the right solution to it, but at least we're, we're going to the source of the problem. And,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] the source of supply. Uh, the problem is here, but the source of supply is there.
[speaker002:] That's true. Very definitely so.
[speaker001:] In fact I think a lot of the, I've been to, uh, Peru several times.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] I've never been to other parts of South America, but, uh, I have been to Peru, and they need some assistance down there and I'm sure that, uh, as an undeveloped country they look, look for it, but there is not exactly a lot of, uh, physical responsibility there. *listen; probably "fiscal" not 'physical'
[speaker002:] No. Very immature [LAUGHTER] in that
[speaker001:] Yes, right.
[speaker002:] respect.
[speaker001:] And I, I think that, uh, they need guidance and assistance, but they need to learn how to stand on their own, own two feet also.
[speaker002:] I agree. I think that for so long power financially, uh, governmentally, every which way was in the hands of such a few
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] that [breathing] there's not the middle class that we, we perceive.
[speaker001:] Oh, no, the, and the poor are extremely poor. I know,
[speaker002:] Are extremely poor. That's correct.
[speaker001:] I know, uh, some of the areas in, in Texas seem poor, but until you've seen some of those, uh, native,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Latin Americans come down from the hills, you can't imagine what poor is. And, uh, the worst scene I've ever had I think was, uh, someone eating out of, out of a garbage can on the streets in Lima, Peru.
[speaker002:] And, and just very happy to get that.
[speaker001:] Oh, yes. Yes.
[speaker002:] I have a brother who spent two years in Bolivia.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And this is very much his, you know, reaction that the rich are so rich and the poor are so poor.
[speaker001:] Oh, the, there's a joke, the, the graft and the, uh, payoffs down there are [breathing], are an accepted way and, in a way,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh, uh-huh.
[speaker001:] And there's, there's a sad joke. I guess all jokes are really sad, but there's a joke about the, uh, Ambassador from Latin America that came to visit a Senator in the U S and was taken to his home for dinner and the, uh, home was palatial. They had five or six servants, you know, and, and, a lot of expensive, uh, holdings and all that, and the Ambassador said, but I know what you make as a U S Senator, how can you afford all of this? And he said, come I'll show you and he walked out in the backyard and the, uh, Senator said do you see that hospital over there? And the Ambassador said, yes. And he patted his pocket and he said fifteen percent. He said, you see that school over there? And the Ambassador said, yes, and he pot, patted his pocket and said fifteen percent, so,
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] Oh, gosh.
[speaker001:] so the next year the Senator went to Latin America to visit the Ambassador and was treated to dinner in his home and it was twice as large and four times as many servants. He said, well I know how poor your country is, how can you afford this, uh, in such a poor country, and he, he said, come I'll show you and he walked out the backyard and he said, do you see that hospital over there? And the Senator looked and he couldn't see anything, he said, no. And the Ambassador potted, patted his pocket and said one hundred percent so,
[speaker002:] Yep [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Yeah, that, it's a sad story but,
[speaker002:] Intentions, intentions [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Yes, yes, but it, uh, it is a problem.
[speaker002:] I know. Uh, I have a sister-in-law who is from Nicaragua and her family, her father was a fairly, uh, high ranking official under Somoza. And when that went down the tubes they had to get out.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And seventeen children,
[speaker001:] Um.
[speaker002:] filtered through into, into America through Guatamala, through Mexico, through Honduras, you know, two here, three there, one here, you know, this kind of thing until,
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] and now, uh, couple of the older ones stayed or went back, but the rest of them now have their American citizenship and are leading productive lives,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] but, you kn-,
[speaker001:] Well, the oth-, the other instance I think of their inability to, to handle things, the cholera,
[speaker002:] Yes.
[speaker001:] and hepatitis epidemics now in, in Latin America. And it shows the, the unpreparedness for such, such a problem.
[speaker002:] Yes.
[speaker001:] And yet they're so,
[speaker002:] Oh, the stories she tells, you know, are just unnerving
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] just unnerving.
[speaker001:] And they're, they're so rich in resources there. They're very rich in oil and gas. And they're very rich in gold and silver, and very rich in, in, uh, natural resources such as the fish and, uh
[speaker002:] Uh-huh, uh-huh.
[speaker001:] timber, and, and copper and all types of, uh, resources but they,
[speaker002:] And the uranium.
[speaker001:] Yes, and, but they don't have, it's sort of like Russia, they don't have the ability to develop it.
[speaker002:] The technology.
[speaker001:] Right. And they, they're very,
[speaker002:] Well, and, you know, they're very willing to be taught in many cases now, too, but, you know, there's just always this kind of resentment underlying I think that when they [breathing] receive help from us, they want it, but, they don't want it, I mean [LAUGHTER],
[speaker001:] You're
[speaker002:] It's kind of a
[speaker001:] you're exactly right.
[speaker002:] catch twenty-two.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh. It, it's sort of illustrated by the, uh, World Bank and International Monetary Fund not wanting to continue to do business there because they offer assistance, then don't get repaid.
[speaker002:] Yeah, yeah.
[speaker001:] So it's sort of a thumbing of the nose, uh, approach. They need it, and they need to live up to certain regulations and expectations, but uh, then don't. Of course it's a very volatile government, uh, situation, too.
[speaker002:] Well, and I think that, you know, it, somewhat a sarcastic view, but some of those drugs czars, you know, they, they know that by pumping that poison into our system
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] that that's the way to bring us to our knees, more on their level.
[speaker001:] You know,
[speaker002:] You know, that's really, uh, kind of a far fetched idea, I know, and I don't think people probably think those things consciously,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] but it's like in any sibling rivalry [LAUGHTER]
[speaker001:] Well the,
[speaker002:] we're hearing the same,
[speaker001:] The solution discussed at one time and I think it has real merit on the drug situation is that the g-, the U S government could spend less money by buying the crop and destroying it than they are in trying to, to beef up the military and to do all other things. I think it would be cheaper to buy it and destroy it, which would still give the, uh, the grower in Columbia and elsewhere in Latin America the, uh, the money that they apparently need and go, go to the illegal crop for. And it would save the U S money in
[speaker002:] In the long run.
[speaker001:] in the long run in how much they're trying to do,
[speaker002:] And in the short run probably [LAUGHTER], too.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] True.
[speaker002:] Course, then could, you know, at, at some point, could you ever convince someone to turn around and grow something that was productive for humankind.
[speaker001:] No, no.
[speaker002:] You know.
[speaker001:] And, I, I think finding an alternate to that would be very good.
[speaker002:] I mean even their, even their legal crops are things that we don't perceive as being healthy now from a medical standpoint of view, coffee
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] tobacco
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] you know [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Argentine beef, yeah, yeah.
[speaker002:] They're certainly legal, but they're certainly not healthy.
[speaker001:] Well, have we come up with a solution yet, Salina?
[speaker002:] No, not that I know of [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] But it's been fun hashing about it I suppose. At any rate, yeah.
[speaker001:] Yeah, yeah. Well, one of these days, uh, I hope we'll find some, some way to substitute the good crops for illegal ones.
[speaker002:] Well, let's just hope that the powers that be, uh, have time to, a little bit once in a while to, to think in some farther reaching avenues than you and I do here tonight but,
[speaker001:] I agree.
[speaker002:] Well, it's been nice chatting with you.
[speaker001:] Yes, it has.
[speaker002:] I appreciate it, and, and tell your wife I hope we, I get her again sometime, too. This is fun,
[speaker001:] Very good [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] It's kind of nice to, [breathing] to see old friends now, you see.
[speaker001:] All right, thank you Salina.
[speaker002:] Bye now.
[speaker001:] Bye.

[speaker001:] hello
[speaker002:] hello there
[speaker001:] did I reach the Dallas area
[speaker002:] I beg your pardon
[speaker001:] did I reach the Dallas area
[speaker002:] nope you've reached Dayton Ohio
[speaker001:] Dayton Ohio I'm from North Carolina
[speaker002:] oh you're from North Carolina where in North Carolina
[speaker001:] in Raleigh
[speaker002:] Raleigh great my name's Mary
[speaker001:] yeah so my name is Fernando
[speaker002:] Fernando glad to know you
[speaker001:] so um do you work how'd you find out about this
[speaker002:] uh I was visiting my son down in Dallas
[speaker001:] oh okay he works for TI
[speaker002:] and uh no no but his wife has a contract with TI and that's how we learned about it um-hum
[speaker001:] oh okay because I'm down at NC State
[speaker002:] yeah um-hum
[speaker001:] and so I took a class and he said sign up and get some money and just talk for five minutes
[speaker002:] right
[speaker001:] so are you ready
[speaker002:] I'm ready
[speaker001:] okay let's get started
[speaker002:] all right okay
[speaker001:] okay so uh what do you think uh that uh what what what what do you think we can do to solve the crime in America
[speaker002:] oh if I knew that I'd be a very wealthy person
[speaker001:] yeah but what what what are the steps
[speaker002:] well you have to see I a as the way I look at it you have to think first of all why or has has crime increased and if so why has crime increased
[speaker001:] well see the problem is is that um what happens is as that you're uh you know as you go from the country to a city crime always increases right because in the country people still respect uh the property of other people
[speaker002:] um-hum right
[speaker001:] and so as as and the people in the country don't want as much as the people in the city
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] now what happens is all those that don't have any money in the country move to the cities and they wish to get the same thing they say why can't we have the same things that these other people have and the thing that we can do is we need money for drugs and what we have to do is we have to go there get some stuff steal it and then you know resell it
[speaker002:] it's easy you said the magic word there drugs
[speaker001:] which one yeah
[speaker002:] and that certainly is one reason why crime here has increased
[speaker001:] that's uh that's uh the main reason I think uh everywhere because uh you have deaths I mean I mean you have murders and you have you know people stealing other people's stuff and that's a lot of it has to do with drugs
[speaker002:] oh yes
[speaker001:] it doesn't have to do I mean the thing is is that you know it's like you might be standing somewhere right and like let's say you're you you go you know you're driving out and you're driving back home and it's late at night and you stop by one of these you know twenty four hour you know gas stations joints
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] and uh somebody walks in there with a gun I mean they're going to want the money and you can tell by the people who are always caught that these people are there to get money for drugs I mean they don't want the money so uh so they can do something else with it
[speaker002:] now they don't want the money for food that's for sure
[speaker001:] right right and so
[speaker002:] well but you know the the strange thing uh perhaps not strange but something that many people don't realize is that you can go back as far as nineteen fifty one and fifty two and find that there were drug dealers
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] at that time trying to influence the high school kids because uh I'm a retired educator
[speaker001:] okay
[speaker002:] and uh in fifty one and fifty two the police came to the high school where I was and were telling us how to recognize when kids were on drugs how to recognize the pushers outside the one entrance that they were giving their drugs away in order to get the kids started and so on and so on
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] so it's a problem that's been around for over forty years and we're just really uh uh now trying to uh figure out how to cope with the problem because it has grown so huge
[speaker001:] yeah there's a there's a a song that I know which says you know that it's like in uh nineteen eighty eight nineteen eighty nine the local state and federal governments spent the least amount of money on crime in America
[speaker002:] hm
[speaker001:] and uh I their figures I think are true so I mean it's like compared to you know compared to weapons and stuff like that I mean you're spending nothing on on crime in the country itself what you're doing is you you know it's like you have other things you know it's like you have the AIDS we're going to solve try to solve the AIDS problem while while you know some people are getting killed here and there and then
[speaker002:] uh-huh you know the uh another one of the problems is that the people who are the dealers the big dealers in drugs may be may be part of the power structure that's keeping us from spending the money in that direction
[speaker001:] uh-huh but those people never get caught the people that
[speaker002:] that's right they'll never get caught
[speaker001:] that that I see their theory is that if I'm surrounded and I'm going to be caught I'm going to try to pry my way through and they're not going to take me alive
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] but I have such a big army outside of my place that nobody can touch me
[speaker002:] that's right but they'll
[speaker001:] you know it's like of course I mean I might be you know the the leading drug dealer here but you won't find me dealing in drugs I mean there's no connection between me and the people that you caught you know
[speaker002:] that's right that's right then one person doesn't know the other person down the line
[speaker001:] right
[speaker002:] but the guy at the very top the one who's who's really making the millions and the millions is the one who also many times is part of the power structure uh the uh and had the political uh pull to keep things from uh keep the interest or the uh emphasis in some other direction other than on the drug dealing because it sure is monstrous in this country
[speaker001:] yeah yeah I was I was at a at a party on Saturday and this guy comes up he goes hey how you doing whatever and then he started talking to me and this guy was from Jamaica right and he's got his little brother selling drugs
[speaker002:] um-hum um-hum
[speaker001:] you know and he goes yeah I just came up here to work and I go oh you did I bet you make uh very good money up here he goes yeah I make a lot a lot of money he goes you know and uh in the movie Good Fellas
[speaker002:] yeah right
[speaker001:] did you see it
[speaker002:] nope I only heard about it
[speaker001:] okay in one part the guy goes out of jail and within uh two months he had all his house payments done everything paid and you know and he had enough money to you know it's like
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] those guys at one point you know they had so much money that they didn't know what to do with it
[speaker002:] yeah well you know even in our prison systems they're finding that they're they're having drugs smuggled into them
[speaker001:] yeah yeah that's that that was also in the movie yeah
[speaker002:] right
[speaker001:] so hello Mary
[speaker002:] it's been nice talking
[speaker001:] we've been talking for five minutes it was
[speaker002:] I beg your we've been talking for a little bit I appreciate the call I enjoyed talking with you
[speaker001:] all right okay same here bye-bye
[speaker002:] uh-huh bye-bye

[speaker001:] Are you a Vietnam veteran, Dudley? [Music].
[speaker002:] Uh, no.
[speaker001:] No?
[speaker002:] [Throat clearing].
[speaker001:] Do you have family who were in the Vietnam War?
[speaker002:] Uh, no. My father was, uh, came in right after World War two.
[speaker001:] Okay. So he was too old, and you were too young, right?
[speaker002:] I am too young, yeah.
[speaker001:] All right. Do you know some folks who have been there?
[speaker002:] Uh, yes.
[speaker001:] Okay.
[speaker002:] A couple.
[speaker001:] Okay. How did it influence them?
[speaker002:] Uh, the, the one guy I worked with down in Austin hated it. Uh, he was a lineman down there.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And while he was there, he caught some kind of a strange disease.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And, uh, all his hair fell out, and he had like a hundred and five fever for a while and,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And, uh,
[speaker001:] Uh, what about long lasting effects on him? Has he still suffering from those problems?
[speaker002:] I do not think he was in combat,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] so,
[speaker001:] Well, I have talked with a number of Vietnam veterans, and I really, I had no one directly related to me involved.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] But, uh, my sister's husband was in Vietnam. And it, it really made a completely different man out of him.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] He went to Vietnam one man and came back another, not better.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Then, uh, another friend of mine went, and he was in combat. But he came back, and he said, "Okay, that is it. That is behind me. I am going on with my life." Much like what Roger Staubach did.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] He was, uh, he was a Vietnam war veteran.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] And, uh,
[speaker002:] But he was in the Navy, though,
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] he was.
[speaker001:] That is true.
[speaker002:] It makes a lot of difference.
[speaker001:] Right. And, but, uh, most of the folks that I have met that were actually on the land, or in combat, are still, still carry a lot of anger.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] They really do. And, uh, I, I, I, I really do not think that we did those young men right.
[speaker002:] Huh.
[speaker001:] I think that, uh, Desert Storm,
[speaker002:] [Throat clearing].
[speaker001:] shows a lot of learning since that time.
[speaker002:] Oh, yeah.
[speaker001:] Uh [faintly].
[speaker002:] Well, the armed forces did so much to, you know, Agent Orange, they did so much to their own people all during that time.
[speaker001:] Yeah. That is true.
[speaker002:] You know, and they ta-, they take a,
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] even now, uh, they take a free hand as far as medicine and, uh, you know, how they treat the war casualties, you know. If you come back and your leg is blown off,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] you know, or, or it is hanging by a thread, they still can't put it back together now. But,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] But what they do afterwards and how they re-, rehabilitate you.
[speaker001:] Well, you know, one of the most troublesome things that I have encountered as a result is the incredible influx of southeast Asians into this country
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] since that conflict.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Uh, not so,
[speaker002:] [Throat clearing].
[speaker001:] much that I say,
[speaker002:] [Sniffing].
[speaker001:] I do not want you here. But there is just such a surge of southeast Asians. It has affected the culture of this country, uh,
[speaker002:] Oh, yeah. It's ab-,
[speaker001:] very much.
[speaker002:] it's about nine or ten percent now.
[speaker001:] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, uh, the culture is changing. Look how much more Oriental food we have, restaurants now,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] for example. Uh, even ten years ago, there were not that many. A lot of shops are, are operated by southeast Asians.
[speaker002:] That's true.
[speaker001:] A lot of people have complained in the schools. There is a culture change there. The southeast Asians seem to be very hungry, there seem to be very studious. And, uh, tends to cause our kids to really have to buckle down to keep up with them, which is not bad.
[speaker002:] No.
[speaker001:] Not really. Uh, but it might in the long run you can see where scholarships, for example,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] uh, even jobs. Uh, jobs that would normally go to an American, with a lesser education, might be going to, to some of these people here. And that is all a result of, of, of Vietnam. And, and you see a lot of,
[speaker002:] [Throat clearing].
[speaker001:] a lot of men that were over there, brought families back.
[speaker002:] Yeah. That is,
[speaker001:] Uh, and it concerns me that there is probably a lot of mixed breed youngsters still there.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] And I would be concerned or interested to find out how they are doing now.
[speaker002:] Well, they are probably not doing very well at all.
[speaker001:] I know that there,
[speaker002:] Because I know there is, there is still people even in the Dallas area. There are, there are still people trying to get some member of their family back from, uh, Vietnam.
[speaker001:] You are talking about P O W -s
[speaker002:] Uh,
[speaker001:] or
[speaker002:] uh,
[speaker001:] missing in actions?
[speaker002:] na-, native Vietnamese people.
[speaker001:] Native Vietnamese people.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Okay.
[speaker002:] They were lost, you know, when they were little, and, and they c-, never did get back or,
[speaker001:] Oh, I had not. That, that had not occurred to me.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] That would be
[speaker002:] And, uh,
[speaker001:] an interesting concept.
[speaker002:] and, as is really a big waste because they didn't, they didn't win, they didn't regain any of the land that they had. It spilled over into, uh, now I can't even think of the country. But,
[speaker001:] Cambodia?
[speaker002:] Yeah. Cambodia.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] [Throat clearing] And to Laos, and,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] and all they did is run and hide.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And they were not really fighting, you know, it, it would have been the same as Desert Storm if all they had been fighting was North Vietnam.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] But, and I am not even sure who was involved more. Whether it was China or Russia.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] You know, they were pouring, they were pouring weapons in there and, and advising, well, digging tunnels for them.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] You know, and there is no way that they could ever catch them.
[speaker001:] Well, I think the terrain had a lot to do with the, the success of Desert Storm as opposed to that in Vietnam.
[speaker002:] Yeah, that is right.
[speaker001:] You know, there is incredible cover
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] in Vietnam. And you can't find much cover on, [LAUGHTER] in a sand
[speaker002:] Yeah,
[speaker001:] dune [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] yeah, all they can do is dig in, and they,
[speaker001:] That is right.
[speaker002:] you know, and then they try to camouflage the top.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh, uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Well now, even, I think even now, and in Vietnam they could probably have done a better job. Because they could, [throat clearing] they could kill all those plants, you know, which would devastate the country as far as farming from then on. But, and the, and the Corps of Engineers I think do a better job now, like they did in Desert Storm. Because
[speaker001:] Well,
[speaker002:] they had, he, he dug a bunch of moats and filled them with oil
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] and he set a lot of booby traps all along the way as they went. And they had to, you know, they had to blow them up or,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] or disarm them.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And then they had to fill in little bridges all the way where he, where he had made those moats.
[speaker001:] What world war do you think they found the experience for that?
[speaker002:] Uh,
[speaker001:] Don't you think they learned from the mistakes in Vietnam?
[speaker002:] W-, yeah, partially.
[speaker001:] Part of it is that,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] part of it is technology.
[speaker002:] Yeah. Part of it is technology, yeah.
[speaker001:] But
[speaker002:] Because
[speaker001:] when, when,
[speaker002:] all, go ahead.
[speaker001:] When you get into trouble like that in a place like Vietnam, you do tend to analyze the problems that you get into, and you say, "Never more."
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] And, and you overcome those problems, and you are prepared next time.
[speaker002:] I think that is one of the reasons that they have, they have pretty much avoided getting involved in South America. Because
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] look what happened when they were looking for Noriega, and they lost him for four hours when they were right on top of him,
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] you know.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] He probably just went right down into a tunnel.
[speaker001:] Sure. Sure. Sure. Well, I know that, [sigh] uh, from a personal standpoint, people was one of the finest assets that we lost. We did not actually physically lose them. They did not lose their lives, but they lost a whole lot of the life they might have had.
[speaker002:] Yeah. That is right.
[speaker001:] Uh, being entirely different people. I had dinner Monday night with a Vietnam veteran who is just now beginning to recover from the drug and alcohol struggle that he had.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] That is a long time to suffer.
[speaker002:] Yeah. And they, they really need, everybody that has, that has stood there, it's, when i-, in Vietnam I think it was much closer contact. You stand there with a rifle and blow a, a piece of somebody apart,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] or blow their head off,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] and that has to affect you if you are human, you know.
[speaker001:] Oh, yeah, yeah.
[speaker002:] So they had to
[speaker001:] I can't, uh,
[speaker002:] work all that, that anger out, and the, and the nightmares that come along with it.
[speaker001:] Oh, yeah. You bet,
[speaker002:] I do not,
[speaker001:] you bet.
[speaker002:] I do not really think that anybody can ever for-, forget that, but they can, they can reason and,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] and try to adjust to, to why they were there.
[speaker001:] Yeah. Well, you see that is what the veterans are so angry about now. They say, "Well, we're,
[speaker002:] [Throat clearing].
[speaker001:] going to listen to this and we are going to look at this, find out what our mistakes were, and we are not going to make them again." But that does not undo the ones that were done. And that is what makes the veterans angry.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] And I cannot blame them. I do not know a solution.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] But I sure cannot blame them for being angry. On the other hand, you know, you can be angry about something for a very long time, or you can say, "Well, that is the way it is," and go on with your life. Uh,
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] For the most part, I wish that it had not happened.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] But it did.
[speaker002:] And that,
[speaker001:] So,
[speaker002:] and that was, that was in the, in the era when Kennedy was president that they were afraid of everything,
[speaker001:] That is right.
[speaker002:] you know. And, and, and they f-, initially got into it because of Eisenhower. And he just, he did not want to be in it any more than, than what we started out in August with Desert Storm.
[speaker001:] Oh, yeah.
[speaker002:] And then it just blew up into the war.
[speaker001:] Well, it has been that way for a very, very long time, though. I can remember when I was in the sixth grade, and that was many years ago.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] We were reading about the French
[speaker002:] French, yeah.
[speaker001:] struggling with that
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] in southeast Asia. So, and, and, and the Asians historically have always had these kinds of wars going on.
[speaker002:] Right, yeah.
[speaker001:] There, there has not been a lot of peace in that part of the world.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh [barking].
[speaker001:] I really, I do not know, i-, we should not have maybe gotten involved. But if we did, we certainly should have supported our people who were there.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] More so supported them when they got home.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] And, uh, I am afraid that they were treated as castaways for the most part.
[speaker002:] Exactly.
[speaker001:] And I, I saw the movie,
[speaker002:] [Cough] [throat clearing].
[speaker001:] BORN ON THE FOURTH OF JULY, and I think it did a good job depicting the temperament of the times.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh. Yeah. More than, what was, APOCALYPSE NOW [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Uh-huh. Well, Dudley, have we pretty well discussed the subject?
[speaker002:] Yeah. I think so.
[speaker001:] Well, I think so. I enjoyed talking to you.
[speaker002:] Yes, it was nice talking to you.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Okay, bye-bye.
[speaker001:] Bye-bye.

[speaker001:] [Breathing] Well, th-, the question was talking about the juries and, uh, one of the things I thought about was a lot of the drunk cases that they were having, that, especially for repeat offenders that, uh, maybe there should be stiffer penalties for those people who come back again and again. Uh, so that, uh, a judge, I think, would be the most appropriate person to, uh, to be able to sentence somebody since they do it over and over again every day.
[speaker002:] Right. I, I kind of agree with that,
[speaker001:] [Buzz] [NOISE]. *slash error
[speaker002:] because I think in some cases, uh, the jury may not even have,
[speaker001:] [Child talking]. *slash error
[speaker002:] the information about other crimes the person has committed.
[speaker001:] Right. *slash error should be 'aa'
[speaker002:] Uh, I, I think that in some cases that's considered to prejudice the current case
[speaker001:] Right [very faint].
[speaker002:] so a judge, you're right, should have the whole dossier of the criminal [LAUGHTER]
[speaker001:] [Child talking] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] there and if they're judged guilty would probably be in a better pri-, position to give an appropriate, uh, sentencing.
[speaker001:] Yeah. See I agree with you. Uh, one thing I heard was this, where they have, instead of going to the regular court, they have a, a mock court. I mean, it's supposed to be all legal and everything. Uh, you go and you present your case, the other side presents their case and you're done with it. It's almost like the NIGHT COURT we see on T V.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Uh, and, uh, but it's not that we have, uh, such, it didn't backlog or all of the, uh, the cases that are, uh, all ready pending. Uh, so I, that was one thing I thought about that would be really neat if we could do it that way.
[speaker002:] In other words, not,
[speaker001:] [Buzz].
[speaker002:] not, there would be some types of crimes for which you're not guaranteed a jury trial?
[speaker001:] Yes. Yes. Now,
[speaker002:] I, I, I don't, th-, there's a point on which we don't agree.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] I would tend, myself, to say that [sigh] we should continue to guarantee a jury trial for criminal cases anytime a, anytime a, one of the parties wants one.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And I, usually it is the defendant, I guess, that wants to have the jury hear the case.
[speaker001:] Sure.
[speaker002:] So I'm not out for streamlining things to the point where we, uh,
[speaker001:] [Breathing]. *slash error
[speaker002:] take that, you know, that would require a change in the Bill of Rights, I believe and so,
[speaker001:] Oh, yes *slash error should be aa and, and I wasn't, I didn't mean that [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Oh, oh, okay.
[speaker001:] I, I didn't mean that, no. Because, I mean, gee whiz, if I was, uh, uh, didn't have that right, you know, not to have a jury that, oh yes, I would feel, uh, you're right, that my civil rights had been violated. But I meant for some, when both parties agreed that yes, we're going to have a judge here. We're not going to have a jury, you know, let's get it over with. Sort of like car accidents, you know,
[speaker002:] Right. Well I think that's all ready possible.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] I think,
[speaker001:] [Buzz]. *slash error
[speaker002:] that you can waive the right to a,
[speaker001:] [Buzz]. *slash error
[speaker002:] jury trial uh, yeah
[speaker001:] Right, *slash error should be 'aa' right [child talking].
[speaker002:] so. I agree that that should be encouraged.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] People should know that that's an option just in case they feel they have to have a jury trial. But I think most lawyers do a pretty good job of making that evident to, to clients unless they feel they can, you know, tweak a jury into [LAUGHTER]
[speaker001:] Right. Giving a different sentence.
[speaker002:] per-, giving a different sentence or possibly, if it's a civil case, giving higher, uh, you know, awards of money or something
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] since usually the lawyers get a percentage of the, the award.
[speaker001:] The take. Right.
[speaker002:] Yeah. And I suspect it, in cases like, I guess we were supposed to be doing criminals though, rather than civil. Is that right?
[speaker001:] Well, I, I, i-, we're at liberty to, to talk and, and meander as long as it's all on the same theme.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Well, uh, in the case of,
[speaker001:] [Noise]. *slash error
[speaker002:] civil, uh, things, I think maybe the, the use of the jury is very,
[speaker001:] [Talking]. *slash error
[speaker002:] often to the lawyer's advantage and I think that may be where jury use is overdone,
[speaker001:] [Buzz]. *slash error
[speaker002:] I mean there are cases where they could be settled,
[speaker001:] [Buzz]. *slash error
[speaker002:] maybe
[speaker001:] Right. *slash error should be 'aa'
[speaker002:] out of court a little more efficiently.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] But the lawyers are really, uh, it's to their advantage to play to as big an audience [LAUGHTER],
[speaker001:] [Child talking]. *slash error
[speaker002:] as possible
[speaker001:] Uh-huh. *slash error should be 'b'
[speaker002:] so. Uh, I was wondering too, if they were thinking of about the judge making awards in civil cases
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] not just sentencing in, in a criminal cases.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Uh, I'm not so sure I'm in favor of that. But I am in favor of it for criminal cases so there's a difference of my view there for those two.
[speaker001:] Right. Right. Yeah, bu-, well you can tell I haven't been in too many juries [LAUGHTER], judges chambers or anything like that [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] Have you ever had to serve jury duty?
[speaker001:] N-, well I was called once when I was nineteen
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and, uh, but I was doing so many other things that they took pity on me and, I was doing school and things like they, they let me out.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] An-, I've never had to it since and that was almost twenty years ago [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Uh-huh. It isn't, sort of amazed me they first caught up with me for the first time,
[speaker001:] [Buzz]. *slash error
[speaker002:] in, uh, that would have been about, uh, twenty years too
[speaker001:] Uh-huh. *slash error
[speaker002:] uh, uh, just last year and, uh, the case I heard was a criminal case and it seemed it really,
[speaker001:] [Child talking].
[speaker002:] trivial. It involved two bicycles.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] We didn't do the sentencing. The judge did.
[speaker001:] Huh.
[speaker002:] So
[speaker001:] How interesting.
[speaker002:] we, we a-, rendered a verdict and then the judge was the one to do the sentencing.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh, Uh-huh [breathing].
[speaker002:] [Swallowing] [lipsmack] And that was here in Wisconsin. So I, I don't know if that varies from state to state or if it,

[speaker001:] any vacations recently that you would highly recommend
[speaker002:] well that is like my favorite hobby so yeah I travel everywhere and I've been all over Europe and
[speaker001:] oh really
[speaker002:] a lot of the United States and Hawaii and
[speaker001:] oh wow wow
[speaker002:] so when I can that's what I do
[speaker001:] uh-huh uh what what has been your favorite trip do you think
[speaker002:] well I'm not sure um I guess Hawaii is one of my favorite places
[speaker001:] really better than Europe
[speaker002:] yeah well no that's exciting you know I've been several times so after the first time it's like anywhere you know it loses that newness but
[speaker001:] oh
[speaker002:] yeah I love it I love to go over to Europe I do and mostly I've traveled through Germany and Switzerland and
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] we have good friends in England so I've been there quite a bit and I just love it all I love to look at the different people and the different cultures and to see how different things are from the way we do them
[speaker001:] um-hum sure um-hum
[speaker002:] the most interesting part more than the museums and things like that
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] so how about you
[speaker001:] yeah well uh I have never been I've been to Canada several times but uh that is about it for me I'm I'm from a Denver and so uh growing up uh we would spend most of our vacations right there in Colorado
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] uh my family is uh uh real into camping and four wheeling and so um several I I think maybe uh four summers in a row uh we spent uh our vacation time in the summer uh four wheeling through uh portions of uh the southern half of of Colorado uh and and uh every time uh my mother had uh uh I have two other sisters and my mother had us uh do some studying of the the area which we were going to visit and then we had to write uh
[speaker002:] oh no
[speaker001:] uh reports reports about it during during our vacation which which was really fun it was really fun we we we each got to write little books uh
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] and uh it it had sparked an interest that uh uh of of mine that uh my fiancee is a is a um very very good photographer that's what she had originally gone to school to do was photography and uh
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] I I'm close to receiving my English degree uh as as well as my my graduate degree so so I uh uh we've thought very seriously of trying to to uh incorporate travel into writing and and writing a book about uh uh some portion of travel uh so we're hoping soon uh not soon maybe within the next ten years to get to take a trip over from uh over over to Europe and take a trip from the northern portion of France
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] uh down to the southern tip of Spain uh and follow uh it there's kind of a backward S shape uh trail that the pilgrims use to take uh in in uh back in the medieval times uh to see the relics uh in in Southern Spain and in Italy
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] and so we would like to take pictures of the Gothic uh and Romanesque uh monasteries and uh just take that journey all the way down and then right a book about it
[speaker002:] boy that would be quite a project
[speaker001:] yeah it would be it's it's our big dream
[speaker002:] yeah well it would be a lot fun you know there's there's good and there's bad and my experience in Italy wasn't my favorite for sure but
[speaker001:] oh sure really
[speaker002:] well I flew into Milan my daughter is uh a twirling champion
[speaker001:] um-hum um-hum
[speaker002:] and she had to perform over there and in Turin and so we had to fly into Milan and we got on the subway after so much trouble because the Italians even if they speak English they don't wanna let you know
[speaker001:] oh sure
[speaker002:] and they gave us all the wrong directions and there were just two of us at the airport they put us on the wrong bus but finally we saw a policeman he put us on the subway we sat there um
[speaker001:] oh uh-huh
[speaker002:] we didn't know Italian we looked at each other we said things like spaghetti you know things like that and we finally followed some kids he told us where to get off we followed these kids with uh gym bags and we figured that must be the sports arena
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] and we lucked out and then when we needed to go to the bathroom there was nothing but a whole in the ground I mean it was just it was kind of a nightmare but that was our experience and I guess all of Italy isn't like that
[speaker001:] wow uh-huh right
[speaker002:] but where we were it certainly was and the hotel that we stayed in we stayed with our English friends their team in the hotel and it was beautiful it was very modern
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] but it was very far away on a bus so you know it was it was really uh it was interesting you always learn something
[speaker001:] oh yeah yeah
[speaker002:] and you will always have a fun experience so it it's great you know
[speaker001:] yeah you said you've been to England several times
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] I wonder have you ever been to a uh a small town uh well it's it's actually about uh thirty minutes from Salisbury it's called uh Bemerton
[speaker002:] no I haven't huh-uh our friends live like an hour outside of England like Ash around there so um-hum
[speaker001:] okay oh okay all right yeah I I I the reason I'm curious um I uh that's the other place I would like to visit uh most

[speaker001:] Okay, well yes, we do have pollution in Houston and it,
[speaker002:] How bad is it? Do you have smog like they do in California?
[speaker001:] Well it, it some, I think it depends on, uh, you know, what the, ho-, the cloud cover and like right now, it's, uh, it's kind of overcast, you know, just, it's hot,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and the sun is trying, tries to shine through but it's, it's holding in this, this pollution and I,
[speaker002:] It depends on whether you have some sort of temperature inversion, I take it.
[speaker001:] I think so, and, uh,
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] and we have, uh, Pasadena, Texas which is sort of between here an, you know, heading toward Galveston, I mean it's still part of, it's part of the Houston metroplex.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh, uh-huh. What do you think is your primary cause of it.
[speaker001:] Well, I think it's industry and I think it's cars.
[speaker002:] You do? You really think cars contribute a lot now that they've taken lead out of gas?
[speaker001:] I don't, I, well maybe not, but, it, it sure, it sure, se-, you know, it, I, I know that when I'm, when I'm behind a car and, uh, sometimes, uh, I can really smell especially diesel and things like that,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] you know, comes right into my air conditioner and, you know, my head and my fa-, I'm so stopped up right now,
[speaker002:] Um, my goodness.
[speaker001:] I don't know if it's, uh, if it's partly from what's blooming, you know, right now, pollen and stuff like that, that's part of it, but, um.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh. I think a lot of it's industrial. I also think, uh, that, uh, there is a certain amount that comes from automobiles but it's mostly from older automobiles. I don't think the newer automobiles are as polluting, uh, frankly.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] I think that, uh, I think that, uh, uh, if, uh, I, I, I heard a story a while back something to the effect that if they could just pay to get twenty percent, or, take all the cars off the road that have been, uh, manufactured say before nineteen seventy-five,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] that they could cut the automobile pollution by over fifty percent just by getting rid of those cars that are still left remaining.
[speaker001:] You mean, uh, fifty percent pollution total
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] from that comes from,
[speaker002:] From, from cars that is, not, not total but just from cars, okay.
[speaker001:] Oh, uh-huh.
[speaker002:] So, that I think would be tremendous help. But I happen to drive an old model car because it's very economical and it just keeps getting, uh, gives me good service and I don't have an incentive to get rid of it as long as it keeps running good and not costing me any money.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] On the other hand I know it's a much more polluter than any of the newer model cars I have.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] But I don't have any incentive to get out of it until it dies.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] And, uh, that may be part of the problem. Als-,
[speaker001:] Do you all have pollution in your co-, part of the country, uh, from industry?
[speaker002:] Yeah, {pause} yeah, yeah, oh, uh, yeah, it's, it's, uh, pretty heavy up here I think but I think it's mostly industrial, is what I really, uh, believe is the, the main problem. And, and, uh, {pause} and, uh, uh, people, uh, I don't think are paying as close attention to it in this area as they frankly should. I, I we, we seem to have a high, uh, cancer rate up here in Maryland.
[speaker001:] Really,
[speaker002:] Yeah, and, uh,
[speaker001:] like what ki-, any particular kind or just all kinds?
[speaker002:] Well, for instance breast cancer seems to be pretty rampant and, uh, I think, of course prostrate cancer's sort of bad for everybody, but, uh, th-, this state was like the second, my wife's a registered nurse, and I think this state was like second this year from the top, in terms of, uh, cancer rate for just all kinds. And I can't help but believe that's not partially caused from pollution. I just don't know exactly what it necessarily is, but I just can't believe it is.
[speaker001:] Um.
[speaker002:] Now we have a lot of pollution being caused by cloruph-, uh, fluorocarbons which is the, like freon twelve and freon twenty-two. They use freon twenty-two in air conditioning systems in houses and the like and heat pumps,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] and they use freon twelve in car air conditioners and that's also what's causing our atmosphere to lose it's ozone layer.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And I can't help believe if it's sufficient enough to make the atmosphere lose it's ozone layer, that it's not acting as a pollutant in our lungs also, and having all kinds of effects, and.
[speaker001:] Well what can we do about the, the, the, the air conditioning problem?
[speaker002:] Well they're working now, I know DuPont and Dow and several other chemical companies are working, uh, feverishly to try to come up with a substitute for fluorocarbons,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] and who ever does is going to make, uh, a mint. Because if they ever come up with a reasonable working agent in place of fluorocarbons, then, uh,
[speaker001:] Is that also what's in, uh, hairsp-, aerosol?
[speaker002:] Well they used to be, but they made them take it out of that.
[speaker001:] Even, so, so the aerosol is still aerosol,
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] but it doesn't have anything that's damaging.
[speaker002:] No, they, they, they passed a law and made them take the fluorocarbons out of the aerosol containers,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh, well that's good.
[speaker002:] and that was a move in the right direction. We are doing some things to try to correct the problem. But there are more things we could do and getting rid of old cars, like I said is one way to help correct the problem. Uh, uh, just trying to I think be careful, uh, with the way you handle garbage, I notice in this state, I don't know if you're doing it in Texas yet or not, but in this state we have special containers now we have to put all our cans and bottles and plastic pieces, uh, you know, containers in, yeah.
[speaker001:] Here, they've just started, started doing that, it's, it's, you know, you're not, you don't have to, but m-, you know, I know I am. I save,
[speaker002:] Yeah, well we are doing it pretty religiously in our group too. But they, uh, in one of the counties here, they're actually doing a trial program of having a trash police. They have a lady that goes around like a meter maid and she spot checks people's trash.
[speaker001:] No kidding, really, oh.
[speaker002:] And if they find a bottle or a can or anything like that in your trash,
[speaker001:] Is that right.
[speaker002:] they'll fine you fifty bucks I think the first time and two fifty the second time.
[speaker001:] Well, we need to do something, we need to get serious about it.
[speaker002:] Yeah, you, right, you've got to get people to see i-, and surprisingly enough just handling of trash, uh, can cut pollution, uh, from, uh, uh, from just throwing it in a dump, or, or, or, where ever else they used to do with it, maybe used to burn it. They've stopped that up here too.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] But that, that will cut pollution too. Because you get a lot of out gassing from these things, I think, decaying and tr-, and trying to, for instance cans and bottles, they never go away at all.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] But on, on the other hand, I don't guess they're polluting. But plastic containers and the like, uh, they may be, I'm not sure of that.
[speaker001:] How much does, uh, planting more trees and things like that help?
[speaker002:] Oh I think that's very important to do.
[speaker001:] too.
[speaker002:] I, I really think that, uh, trying to get along with your environment and help it out is a very, very important thing.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And, uh, that can help to cut pollution, I guess some. I, I don't know how much trees actually act as filtering agents in terms of pulling various pollutants or chemicals out of the air. I would hope that they would help some, though. That's for sure.
[speaker001:] I think, uh, it seems like there was something going on, around here, that, you know,
[speaker002:] [Throat clearing].
[speaker001:] we have all these chemical plants and oil refineries and those kind of things and that they burn off a lot of stuff,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and some of the stuff that they weren't supposed to do that somebody found out, you know, like in the middle of the night, they would go ahead and do it anyway. I think they got caught.
[speaker002:] Oh good.
[speaker001:] But I wonder how much of that kind of stuff, you know, goes on.
[speaker002:] Well that, uh, that I think may go on a lot and the primary reason I think it may go on a lot is just as you said, somebody happened to stay up late at night or something. I don't think we have a adequate policing, uh, particularly on industry. Uh, we have good policing, at least in this state and, and several of the surrounding states and probably yours too, of car pollutants because we have to go down, uh, once a year here in Maryland and get out car's exhaust systems checked for emission content.
[speaker001:] Uh, we have to, uh, we have to have a state inspection every year.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Do you all have that?
[speaker002:] Uh, no, we don't have a state inspection,
[speaker001:] So, which I, I don-, I would assu-,
[speaker002:] but any time you sell a car or buy a car it has to be inspected in this state.
[speaker001:] So I'm assu-, I'm assuming that, you know, they check, they check everything for safety or,
[speaker002:] I don't know, uh, that's something that you'd have to just check with your authorities. But in this state we have to, uh, pay eight dollars and a half and go to a, an emission station once a year and get every one of our cars checked that are, have been made starting in nineteen seventy-three.
[speaker001:] But that's all they check for, they don't check how good, if your tires are good enough or your brakes are good enough.
[speaker002:] No, no, we don't have inspections like that. Now, I'm in Maryland, in Virginia they check that every two years, I think.
[speaker001:] We do that ev-, every year.
[speaker002:] And I think that's a good idea too, not, no-, not that it necessarily has anything to do with cutting pollution necessarily, but I think it's a good idea. The emission check, though, is required in Maryland and it's also required in Virginia, uh, a sister state to, to this one. And that's, that goes a long ways towards cutting pollutants.
[speaker001:] Well I'll have to check, I'm not sure if, if our state inspection ever-, once a year has to do, you know, if they check the, uh,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh, well if they don't I would imagine in time they'll get a law with. i-, get around to it, and if they don't then that's something I would certainly, uh, uh, suggest you be willing to uh, uh, be for in terms of, uh,
[speaker001:] Oh, I would [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Yeah, yeah.
[speaker001:] I'm for anything that cleans up the air or the water or, or, or anything.
[speaker002:] Oh yeah, I, I agree. Now that's another area we haven't even discussed and that is water pollution and various of the other types of, uh, of, uh, like food pollution. I mean you, you hardly ever hear, hear anybody say anything about food pollution. But I think there we have a pretty good handle on inspection of foods in this countries, so, uh, hopefully we're not ingesting too much in the way of, uh, pollutants in our food. But water pollution, uh, I've worried, especially the last few years about just how good the water supply we have in this country is for drinking and the like.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] I know a lot more people are going to bottled water.
[speaker001:] Well and that's not necessarily the answer either because they've found out that that's just comes out of somebody's tap.
[speaker002:] Yeah, tap, yeah [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] So, but a lot of these, uh, some of this well, you know, a lot of people have well water, in fact in this area too and, an, you know, and, uh,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] if you don't get it tested you don't necessarily know what you're, what you're drinking and I, I know a lot of people, you know, have that and, you know, you have to wonder if that, you know could have an adverse affect on them too,
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] if they don't, i-, they don't get it checked.
[speaker002:] Yeah, I'm absolutely for drinking water out of wells as long as you first of course, have it checked because it seems, uh, when I was a kid growing up down south, uh, I used to go out in the country where my grandparents were and we had a well, it was one of those draws that, I forget what you call those things,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] and, and that was some of the best tasting water, I mean, I can still to this day taste that water.
[speaker001:] When we were, when I was growing up I lived in Huntsville, Alabama,
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] and their water supply came from, uh, spring.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] And it was like ice cold, spring water and I guess parts of the, the city still ha-, you know, get that, but, uh, that was, that was really wonderful.
[speaker002:] Oh, I bet it was.
[speaker001:] It was really, really good.
[speaker002:] Yeah, the-, once it's been filtered an if it's a deep enough well, filtered through all the earth and everything I think that, uh, it depends of course where you are. A good well, though, I think is very healthy...

[speaker001:] how would you go about organizing a family reunion
[speaker002:] well I from I grew up in the Deep South like south Alabama so whenever I think of family reunions my family like got together almost every week
[speaker001:] oh gee
[speaker002:] and there'd be like thirty people so people talk about you know big family reunions and I I think like I have a friend who just went to like Wyoming to some big ranch you know where like there were four hundred people
[speaker001:] oh my
[speaker002:] for for their family reunion and I so I mean how I would go about doing it is I would just call all my relatives
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] because I since I came from my father has uh five sisters and two brothers and my mother has four brothers and two sisters so I can both of my parents had big families and we always were we always got together just always now it's different because I live here and I've you know when I go home I try to see the families as much of the family as I can but it's real different and I grew up in a real not I think not normal setting
[speaker001:] yes with all of you living so close together
[speaker002:] right I mean Sunday dinner was at my grandmother's and you know like I said there'd be thirty you know a thirty people and everyone would just bring things and my grandmother would cook and cook and cook and
[speaker001:] oh
[speaker002:] it
[speaker001:] well I come from a very small family and we planned a family reunion this spring um where we are from Texas and my family's from Ohio and we met in Florida
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] so the seven of us went on a cruise and then went to Disney together so that's all the family so planning our family reunion reunion was very easy
[speaker002:] yeah I guess so and sounds like it was fun
[speaker001:] yeah it was we had a wonderful time

[speaker001:] what do you think about the uh Peace Corps or public service commitment
[speaker002:] uh that's the first I've ever heard of it I haven't heard of it anything too much about it um
[speaker001:] well I think it was uh thought up when there was so much controversy about reviving a draft and people said well they uh young people who were drafted have to provide military service to the country but there are an awful lot of young people who would benefit from um some sort of public service like the Conservation Corps back in the thirties or
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] uh various other things of that sort and it seems to me that it's it's not a totally bad idea but I don't quite see how they'd make it work
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] how would they decide who goes into uh building fire breaks in Yosemite National Park and who goes to Saudi Arabia
[speaker002:] right yeah I the my first impression was um it would be very very good I think it would be good for people to serve but I don't know if it should be an option it would be great to have some of those organizations like you mentioned that were during the Depression or coming out of the Depression available for kids and I think there are some available now where they are able to work but making it a mandatory thing
[speaker001:] yeah the the difficulty would be in whether it's voluntary or involuntary and the people who were proposing it said that it should be involuntary that it should be like a draft
[speaker002:] kind of right uh-huh
[speaker001:] and some people would get military service and some people would get civilian uh service like working in hospitals this I assume it's the kinds of things that they had conscientious objectors do
[speaker002:] uh-huh uh-huh
[speaker001:] when people were drafted and they refused to serve in the Army they were allowed to do hospital service or uh things like that and if they refuse or farm work in World War One I remember
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] uh reading about and and I suppose that there is uh justification for taking everybody if you take anybody
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] but I just really think that the difficulties involved in paying them uh sorting them out assigning them training them would be insurmountable
[speaker002:] uh-huh it seems like you'd have a lot more conscientious conscientious objectors if they had that choice
[speaker001:] yeah well it's a possibility
[speaker002:] yeah you know I'd I'd much rather work in a hospital than than to go to war and I'm sure most young men and women would and so uh
[speaker001:] well I think that in the in the cases that like that uh they had to be uh pretty thoroughly examined to prove that they had pacifist and religious beliefs and so forth and that this wasn't something new just to keep out of going to war it was
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] uh something that was a fundamental part of their philosophy of life
[speaker002:] uh-huh well that makes sense and then you run into again to um the bureaucracy in running it you know how you going to cover that many people because we've got a lot more people now than we did then
[speaker001:] oh yeah sure and in addition to that we have the cost because you have to pay something
[speaker002:] so right
[speaker001:] for their room and board and then you have to pay them some kind of a stipend uh even if it's like the Peace Corps where they don't get most of it until they come home you have to have to pay them something
[speaker002:] uh-huh uh-huh plus the training involved yeah that would be expensive in most cases
[speaker001:] oh yeah yeah now I had a lot of friends who went to the Peace Corps uh back in the mid sixties
[speaker002:] because uh-huh
[speaker001:] and it really did seem to be a worthwhile organization but on the other hand I'm not sure what the permanent value of it was I don't know what we got for all the money
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] we had an awful lot of idealistic people who went off to uh what was then East Pakistan is now Bangladesh and to uh Algeria and to
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] uh Southeast Asia and lots of uh out of the way places but I don't know if they really had significant effects in the places where they went in teaching the people how to cope with their lives better
[speaker002:] uh-huh well I know in I personally took a year and a half and went as a missionary and taught Christianity in Japan
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] and I was living such a stringent lifestyle that it was very beneficial to me it taught me not to be so self-centered and it you know to think of others
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] but I don't know if I was doing it in different situation you know not a really religious background if if I would get a lot out of it you know I think I did because it you know it emphasized that sort of thing you know a lot of
[speaker001:] sure
[speaker002:] self
[speaker001:] and it was definitely voluntary too they were not drafting you and sending you against your will
[speaker002:] evaluation but right right and that I'm sure that would make a big difference too
[speaker001:] yeah well what about a voluntary program do you think that would be a good idea
[speaker002:] you know we've got um well like I say I know that there are some type of programs that they have available for a youth like teenagers to go and do um work in the national parks and work in uh neighborhoods to do um clean up and that sort of thing but I don't know what organization it's under I don't know if it's a government run or if it's a private
[speaker001:] I don't either
[speaker002:] charity that's put it together but I know that that helps a lot with training and um
[speaker001:] yeah out here in California there's a program like that for uh juvenile delinquents the the ones that are not dangerous and they don't have to be locked up go to these uh camps
[speaker002:] a lot of uh-huh
[speaker001:] and they do forestry work they maintain trails and they uh put up signs and they do fire prevention work and certainly things of that sort
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] and that I know is run by the State but there may be other things I'm not so sure what kind of uh training that is for the future for those kids
[speaker002:] yeah how much benefit it'll do them in the long run
[speaker001:] it's probably a a very good way to keep them off the streets and out of trouble but whether it's something that they can put to to economic use later on is a different subject
[speaker002:] right especially in you know if you take a a child that's from the inner city and then put them in the a middle of a park if they go back to the inner city they may not see trees for a while much less be able to take care of them
[speaker001:] that's true good point
[speaker002:] so that's yeah so that may not may not benefit them in the long run
[speaker001:] oh yeah yeah I'm sorry I'm going to have to go but my other line is blinking but it was good to talk to you
[speaker002:] but okay well thank you you too bye-bye
[speaker001:] bye

[speaker002:] not very good it's not been a good day
[speaker001:] I went I turned mine in about twelve hours early at noon
[speaker002:] I don't know I finished mine up about eleven and left it here with Carolyn so I hope she's turned it in
[speaker001:] are you eating
[speaker002:] I just go ahead I'll stop eating I just barely got home from the university I just barely got home from the university
[speaker001:] no it's okay say what  tell you what we can do is uh I can punch the uh one then we after five minutes when the uh uh voice comes on we can talk all night if we want
[speaker002:] okay go ahead fire away
[speaker001:] uh I love the irony of uh talking about this subject on April the fifteenth but um I'm afraid I'm I'm I'm probably in the minority I I actually don't think that we uh pay too much in this country um um particularly uh in this part of the country where um I guess
[speaker002:] I agree with you
[speaker001:] I do have a uh a bone to pick with um uh the way taxes are distributed um I just finished fuming at the fact that we pay an eight and a half percent sales tax and no income tax when the income tax could have been deducted from a federal form and the sales tax can't I think that's regressive and uh um it's kind of dumb
[speaker002:] I hate the eight and a half percent sales tax but then on the other hand I don't mind that it's only on you know things that aren't like groceries and that it's not on them
[speaker001:] well I mean nobody taxes groceries do they where
[speaker002:] oh yeah they do in Arizona
[speaker001:] is that right
[speaker002:] um-hum we have a pretty low income tax I mean pretty low tax rate here oh I think that the sales tax they just got to do something about it
[speaker001:] right it's
[speaker002:] but that's the politicalness of trying to not create any new taxes
[speaker001:] right but I guess when I hear when when I see the comparison between the United States and uh any other western country uh their their rates are like uh forty one forty two and ours are like thirty six thirty seven you know if you compute it as a percentage of total income all taxes lumped together we actually do pretty well there's there's there's no other country that's that is taxed as low as we are
[speaker002:] well and I still think having lived in Europe for awhile you know the difference in living conditions are certainly well worth uh what we pay for it
[speaker001:] yeah uh-huh I'm I'm not sure I understand what you mean
[speaker002:] well I mean I think I was in Germany you know for several years
[speaker001:] right
[speaker002:] and I'd a lot rather pay taxes here and have what we have than have to live there
[speaker001:] oh you mean lowest end of living in spite of lower higher uh yeah I suppose that's true yeah um probably more less so now than it was ten years ago or whenever but
[speaker002:] higher taxes yeah still is that way to some extent
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] I think the other problem is you know it's it's easy to complain about taxes because they're something you theoretically can do something about
[speaker001:] right
[speaker002:] but I look for example and you you're not in the quite in the same situation but like school taxes for me biggest bargain in the world I wish I didn't have to pay any more for for to my physicians in a year than I had to pay for all of my school taxes
[speaker001:] right right yeah yeah since uh I send my kids to parochial school that's uh
[speaker002:] yeah that that's probably a little tougher on you
[speaker001:] it's not it's not quite the bargain that a guy would think but I mean I pay them gladly that's a decision I think it's a dumb decision on our part because countries like Canada and England and Germany do perfectly well with a uh two tract system in which religious schools coexist with secular schools for the with the same tax money but uh I mean that's uh that's the way the Americans want to interpret it I guess that's all right but yeah I and if I were uh when I was single and again when I'm retired I will not mind paying uh what it takes to keep the schools good that's always been a high priority you know
[speaker002:] no I think that's just you though
[speaker001:] I do think yeah that's true I think in places I think in places like California people are beginning to find that in in areas that are fairly well off if you add the um uh people of various sexual persuasions and those who never intend to marry and those who are retired and those who are um just looking for fun they people with families turn out to be such a small minority that they can't get the tax bill passed no matter what happens
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] and uh there are big sections of the country where people with children of school age are such a small minority that they can't get anything done that seems um um like a cultural lapse I mean people were always used to be willing to ante up for the schools they
[speaker002:] of course I think with the graying of America we're gonna see that problem in lots of places
[speaker001:] right yeah people would rather um increase the fire department and cut down the schools because it means more to them but I think it's sad
[speaker002:] or build roads
[speaker001:] selfish and shortsighted yeah well uh

[speaker001:] So. How's your products been?
[speaker002:] Um, I really haven't had, uh, too many problems. Uh, seems to me that everything that I buy goes bad just after the warranty runs out.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] I hear that one. Have you had any lately go out?
[speaker002:] Yeah, I've had a dryer, an ice maker, a microwave, all three, and they, unfortunately I bought them all three at the same time, when I bought my new house, and, uh, I really don't have any recourse, so I had to call and have them all repaired and that.
[speaker001:] Oh, wow.
[speaker002:] Yeah, it was a hassle.
[speaker001:] So you didn't get anything, even, all the, all the warranties were out?
[speaker002:] Yeah, the warranty on the refrigerator, uh, the i-, the refrigerator warranty's still good, but the ice maker itself, passed its three years, and it was three years and two months.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] You're kidding.
[speaker002:] No.
[speaker001:] Yeah, we just moved into a new house, too, so we had to buy all those, too.
[speaker002:] Uh, watch out.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Yeah, the only thing I've had problems with is, um, I buy a lot of wood working equipment through the mail
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and I bought this paint stripper where they advertise [throat clearing] that it's nontoxic and such, and when you get the product it ends up being toxic and all these warnings. So.
[speaker002:] Um.
[speaker001:] I didn't return it because it'd probably cost me more than, I just ended up using it. But, that's about the only thing I've had gone wrong. But.
[speaker002:] I usually have pretty good luck with appliances, but I just, uh, it was within two days that all three of these stopped working, and the
[speaker001:] That's incredible.
[speaker002:] the ice maker was, uh, had to have a new pump, and the, uh, microwave had to have, uh, some kind of something I can't even pronounce,
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] and they, uh, the dryer had to have a new heating element, so it was about, almost three hundred dollars for all three of them.
[speaker001:] And they all went out at the same time?
[speaker002:] Uh, within two days of each other.
[speaker001:] Or two days. Wow.
[speaker002:] I was, it wasn't a good week. I was pretty mad.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] And {C plus the place that I'd bought them all had gone out of business, so even if I, I think even if I had, uh, had kept the warranty, the service agreements were with the companies that, that manufactured, but still they were through that retailer, so I don't know if I could have taken it to another retailer or not.
[speaker001:] Wow, it's frustrating.
[speaker002:] But I didn't have to worry about all that, because they weren't under warranty.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] So. It was a call to the local appliance dealer
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] who came out and fixed them all, but, I, the only other things that I've ever had trouble with, uh, I seem to have a real bad trouble with electric hair dryers, blow dryers.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh, they go out a lot?
[speaker002:] Yeah, I've had two or three of those go out. One was under warranty, and the other two weren't, but, I just, other than that, you know, T V -s and things like that, I haven't ever had any trouble with. I don't think products are getting much better though.
[speaker001:] Yeah. See I'm in the manufacturing home from work and make, um, automotive air bags, the safety air bags.
[speaker002:] Oh, really?
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] That's interesting.
[speaker001:] At Morton International, and, I thin-, well, it's, it's changed a lot with the manufacturing environment. We test everything after each assembly process, and so our testing is pretty thorough, but.
[speaker002:] Do you, do you test each individual one
[speaker001:] Um.
[speaker002:] or do you just test, like if you've got ten, you test one, and by the test results of the one you assume that the other nine are okay?
[speaker001:] Um, the tests that, well, we test every one electrically. We don't, I think they test four or five a day, actually exploding the air bags
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and, but we do test after, during the assembly project, product, um, after we assemble each part of the inflator or what explodes the bag, we check to make sure it's there after we install it, so, each assembly process has an inspection right after it's done, and then we do electrical tests on them during the process, so.
[speaker002:] Well, that's something I've never had to use, it's never, I've never been involved in an automobile accident, so, luckily that's a product that I haven't had to test.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Yeah.
[speaker002:] But I think it's a great idea. I'm, I'm, seems like all the good logical ideas take forever to come about but that.
[speaker001:] Well, they do the, all the testing that we have to do through the government, it's incredible how much testing they have to do.
[speaker002:] Oh, I'm sure they want to be thorough before they. But, uh, even, you know, I don't mind spending the extra money on the car
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] if, you know, even if they pass the savings, the cost onto the consumer, because it just seems like a real worthwhile thing. I'm not a real big seat belt, my, uh,

[speaker001:] okay
[speaker002:] okay I guess we're set
[speaker001:] um
[speaker002:] current events
[speaker001:] I get my current events basically from news uh just because I watch pretty much a lot of television um
[speaker002:] television news is it uh CNN or Headline News or just local news or what it
[speaker001:] uh I watch a little bit of everything I like to tune into CNN to CNN because uh and you can tune in like any time of day and pretty much get the update on everything in about five or ten minutes I think news today um
[speaker002:] right right
[speaker001:] it's kind of losing its importance like on in in on radio if you hear any news at all it's like two seconds you know really quickly on regular stations
[speaker002:] right well on commercial radio I guess I I tend to get more of my news from national public radio in the morning on the way to work evening on the way to school so
[speaker001:] yeah that's good too uh-huh I like KRLD
[speaker002:] so I don't uh I don't see much TV mostly when I'm in school but I do here
[speaker001:] yeah where do you go to school
[speaker002:] uh University of Texas at Dallas
[speaker001:] oh okay I went to UT at Austin
[speaker002:] so right
[speaker001:] but uh I'm a news reporter so I I should get all I can my news from the news from the TV
[speaker002:] really
[speaker001:] but um
[speaker002:] I do tend to throw on Headline News when I'm doing things around the house and just let it play and listen but uh
[speaker001:] yeah I usually don't intentionally although I should I don't intentionally turn on the television to watch news
[speaker002:] right
[speaker001:] or I don't intentionally turn on the radio to listen to the news if it comes on I just happen to hear it now I will intentionally buy a newspaper to watch to to look at the news but other than
[speaker002:] yeah all I ever get out of the paper is the Sunday paper so
[speaker001:] yeah that's true
[speaker002:] I read the comics that's about it yeah
[speaker001:] that's about it the Sunday paper it's so full of stuff but you pick your favorite section and the rest you throw away although you paid what almost two dollars now to get it but
[speaker002:] right right I like to listen to uh national public radio on the way to work because it's
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] I don't know it's variety you know they throw in a little news and a little bit of other stuff it
[speaker001:] um-hum yeah
[speaker002:] tends to get like Headline News if you listen to it for an hour when you
[speaker001:] is it is it pretty good coverage on there I mean um-hum
[speaker002:] yeah it usually is and they throw in a lot of you know a lot of interviews and commentaries it's kind of like getting a newspaper there's a lot of
[speaker001:] yeah yeah
[speaker002:] sections to it and they they present different sides of things
[speaker001:] hum because I find like on KRLD I like to listen to that but each story is like no more than two or three lines you know so it's
[speaker002:] oh well they spend a little more time you know they cover the headlines and then they go into a lot of issues and things where they they spend five or ten minutes discussing something and interviewing people
[speaker001:] yeah uh-huh yeah that'd probably be better especially when you listen to the like popular radio stations like mostly the music stations
[speaker002:] and it's
[speaker001:] news is is pretty much nonexistent they'll have little little teeny weeny news breaks you know
[speaker002:] yeah and only in the morning I guess there's a little bit
[speaker001:] yeah yeah basically
[speaker002:] I haven't listened to a top forty radio station in so long I wouldn't know
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] so
[speaker001:] so let's see um
[speaker002:] and I guess I get some kinds of other of you know business related news through trade journals and things but
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] that's about it
[speaker001:] the only reason I get trade journals is like if I'm looking for a job or something
[speaker002:] right
[speaker001:] which is what I'm doing now
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] but uh yeah trying to get out of wherever they are
[speaker002:] a lot of people are but uh
[speaker001:] but uh I think I think news is I'm wondering where it's going you know how I think it would be nonexistent pretty much nonexistent except maybe through the paper uh I know the newspaper used to be kind of the only source for news and now it's it's kind of your final choice you watch first you go to CNN then you go to radio or something like that I think it
[speaker002:] yeah well nobody wants to sit down and read
[speaker001:] yeah yeah
[speaker002:] it's it takes a lot more time to read something and you've got news bombarding you from everywhere now you know you turn on the TV turn on the radio
[speaker001:] yeah so much for my effort yeah yeah but I think that soon the paper may be kind of the only source again
[speaker002:] why is that
[speaker001:] I don't well just because I'm I'm thinking that it it's getting so short on radio just you you still you have two or three I know in Dallas you can probably get two two all news radio stations out of I don't how many popular radio stations and then on television you have just the news at six and ten
[speaker002:] yeah I just
[speaker001:] and I just I just see that dwindling in in
[speaker002:] I find it hard to believe that people'll go back to reading over television I mean just given the way society is and I enjoy reading but most people would rather turn on the tube and
[speaker001:] true yeah true that's true too yeah
[speaker002:] and and flip through the channels you know and get the headline news that thirty minutes of
[speaker001:] than sit down and take the effort to read the paper
[speaker002:] right and they don't have to go get one you know
[speaker001:] one thing I like about the paper um as opposed to television is that uh when I like when I report because I'm in television I have to get the basic the main facts and that's it that's all you have time for whereas in the paper I like to read the articles because they get every side every single side and
[speaker002:] right right
[speaker001:] and every point they make you know and and it's all there
[speaker002:] right well that's why I like uh national public radio because when they get on one of these little they they give you headlines that are brief
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] just they touch on what's going on and then they'll get into something and really explore it
[speaker001:] um-hum um-hum
[speaker002:] and it's it's informative it's a lot more informative than you know a quick half hour news show that
[speaker001:] yeah yeah
[speaker002:] they tell you what they want you to hear
[speaker001:] yeah because that's what we do I mean it's like each each story is thirty seconds
[speaker002:] right
[speaker001:] you know so it's like you really have to tell as much as you can which is not much in that amount of time so and it'll probably get shorter and shorter as the years go by I think
[speaker002:] yeah there's so much going on in the world communication you know spans the world now and
[speaker001:] oh yeah
[speaker002:] there's too much going on you can't afford to give more than a couple of seconds here and there
[speaker001:] I think that is one good thing one great thing about news and that we saw right during the war just now is that we got all the information within minutes you know whatever happened we knew about it about the same time that they knew about it
[speaker002:] yeah and the question is how much of it or some how some of it I guess there's a lot of debate about censorship and and what we're really seeing is it is it the true story or is it a little bit biased
[speaker001:] yeah yeah um-hum yeah because even though we do get the story right away they were censored as to what they could tell us so all we had to sit here and and ask is well what aren't they telling us
[speaker002:] right
[speaker001:] you know so that that was pretty scary but we I talked to one woman and she said that she didn't want to know what was going on because if she had a son over in Saudi Arabia she wouldn't want to know you know that they're bombing or or this and that's going on and at the same time I talked to another woman and she was so happy to know because she lived through Vietnam and she didn't know what was happening at that time and she was so happy to get the information
[speaker002:] right
[speaker001:] you know so it's just a lot of different opinions on that
[speaker002:] I I you know I like to to know what's going on sometimes I think there's just a little bit too much
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] you know you get in the habit of like I say turn on Headline News and it'll play over and over and you just tune it out because it's the same thing but
[speaker001:] yeah and then too a lot of times I think uh especially on television they blow things completely out of proportion it's like
[speaker002:] yeah they tend to dramatize things that are
[speaker001:] you know like this Kennedy thing it's just I mean everywhere you turn Kennedy Kennedy Kennedy you know what kind of shoes did he wear on the night and you know it's just like okay this is ridiculous
[speaker002:] yeah like who cares really
[speaker001:] so
[speaker002:] well
[speaker001:] but what are you doing something on a computer oh I heard the little clicking
[speaker002:] yeah trying to do some C programming
[speaker001:] oh okay well it was nice talking to you okay take care bye-bye
[speaker002:] okay take care um-hum bye

[speaker001:] Okay, sorry.
[speaker002:] Wow, that's okay [breathing] [LAUGHTER]. So, tell me about your home.
[speaker001:] Oh, it's, uh, it looks like a little shot gun house, almost. It's got three bedrooms going along one side and the living room and kitchen on the other.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] It's, uh, an older home, it's not new, I like it though, it's big.
[speaker002:] Oh really, what kind of square footage?
[speaker001:] Oh, I wouldn't know, I measured it one time,
[speaker002:] Uh.
[speaker001:] because I was, uh, we had saw some termites and we thought about getting it sprayed. I think it was like, I can't remember, I'm sorry [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] That's okay, that's okay.
[speaker001:] It's big enough for us, though.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] We kind of need maybe one more room. We've got two children.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh, okay. So where do you live at, I mean wha-, what part of town. In here in Denison.
[speaker001:] Okay, we-, see, that's north.
[speaker002:] Or down here in Denison, yeah.
[speaker001:] Okay, I live, I live in Plano, so it's north to me [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Okay, up here then [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] I say down, I'm really from Kentucky.
[speaker002:] I was going to say you didn't have the typical, you have a southern accent,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] but you don't have a Texas accent.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] Well I'm originally from, uh, Ohio, Cincinnati,
[speaker001:] Oh, okay.
[speaker002:] so I'm famili-, uh, familiar with, uh,
[speaker001:] That area, that dialect.
[speaker002:] Right, right [LAUGHTER]. Also I lived in Georgia for about four years, so the, uh, there's a difference too, between east and west, in the south.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And, uh, the way in which people speak. Anyway, my home is, um, I guess it's about twenty-five hundred square foot and I have, uh, four bedrooms at the present. We're busting out walls and things like that.
[speaker001:] That's what I want to do. How many kids do you have?
[speaker002:] We have two, we have two.
[speaker001:] Do you have enough bedroom space, then?
[speaker002:] [Music] Yeah, we'll have enough bedroom space, it's, we're rearranging our house because the bedrooms are kind of small.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And so, we're going to enlarge our master bedroom and take out a couple of walls and enlarge it. And then shuffle the rooms around a little bit.
[speaker001:] That's kind of like what we'd like to do. We just had a baby a couple months ago and we've got a den, it's more or less a spare room.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] We rarely go in there, except for to play chess.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] We want to make that a bedroom for my stepdaughter and my daughter and, uh, we need the one extra room. Like, like you said, our rooms are too s-, the bedrooms are too small, the living room and kitchen are huge,
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] but the bedrooms are too small. Where you've got to leave the furniture just one certain way, you can't rearrange it at all.
[speaker002:] Right, there's they, uh, I know what you're saying there, ours is the same and they tend to put windows in the strangest places.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] You know we have windows in our bathrooms which really makes it difficult for,
[speaker001:] Yeah, we've got two great big windows in our back bathroom.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh, yo-, you're kind of limited in what you can do there and everything, so.
[speaker001:] No privacy.
[speaker002:] No, we don't have a lot of that, yeah.
[speaker001:] Well, we've got at least two windows on every wall in the house. It,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] I'd hate to clean these windows, I really would.
[speaker002:] [Cough] I figured I'm going to have to hire somebody to remove our windows and put new ones in that are easier to clean. Ours are the double pane and you can't really clean them on the inside, you know.
[speaker001:] Ours are those too, yeah. You must live in an older home too then.
[speaker002:] Right, I do, the house is about, um, I'd say almost thirty years old.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] So it's not a new home, it's, it's seen some wear and tear.
[speaker001:] Ours has too.
[speaker002:] You know.
[speaker001:] When we moved in the man that sold it to us had said that he remodeled it,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and he did it hisself, so most of that, by now, is falling apart.
[speaker002:] Oh.
[speaker001:] You know, well I mean, it's not just horrible, but like this tile's come loose off the wall, the whole bathroom is covered from ceiling to foot in tile and I don't like that at all.
[speaker002:] Um, that is awful.
[speaker001:] With that, uh, the great big tiles, square tiles like, that you put on the floor,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh, he did it in that?
[speaker001:] the, the huge one. Yeah, instead of wallpaper. I wouldn't mind it if it was like short tiles, for that you put,
[speaker002:] The normal tiles, right.
[speaker001:] right that you put around a bathtub, that would be prettier.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] But this looks like floor covering on the wall. It just doesn't look good.
[speaker002:] Oh, and also they're very heavy and so they tend to come off a whole lot easier.
[speaker001:] Right, there's one big one that has come off and short of putting nails through it, we can't get it back on, so.
[speaker002:] Um.
[speaker001:] And he rewired the house and it's shorting out here and there, and [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Oh, wow, I, that's one of the things we've been fortunate with, is our, uh, wiring is okay. We don't have a, we don't have enough power, um, or our breakers aren't, aren't powerful enough to take, to, to really help with the load in the house.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] I mean we need to redo some, rewiring ourselves but our plumbing is awful. There is n-, there is a shut off valve that's outside that doesn't work,
[speaker001:] Um.
[speaker002:] and there's no other real shut off valves inside the house, so if something breaks, we have to shut it off from the main, in the street,
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] you know, and, oh, it's, it can be really bizarre.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] And we never know where it's going to flood.
[speaker001:] We've got power surges on the west side of our house. We've got our stereo hooked up.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Well that, the power makes it run. It's never ran, it's always ran just fine, the clock and stuff.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] But it runs about ten minutes fast, except for about a month, for about a month the, the clock ran normal.
[speaker002:] Um.
[speaker001:] And then the power went off again, lightning or something knocked it out and we hooked it back up and now it's running ten or fifteen minutes fast again.
[speaker002:] Um.
[speaker001:] But on the east side of the house it runs fine.
[speaker002:] Oh boy, you do have a strange wiring problem there.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] He put new wiring in, it's all new wiring up in the attic,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] or I guess crawl space,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] but, uh, oh, no, he didn't know what he was doing, he really should have hired people.
[speaker002:] Well that's something, my husband's in construction and he won't even touch electrical stuff. He, i-, I mean, he'll do a little things but he won't do any major rewiring.
[speaker001:] [Cough].
[speaker002:] He says he'd rather pay the electrician to handle it.
[speaker001:] Right, he'll end up killing himself.
[speaker002:] Pardon.
[speaker001:] End up killing theirselves.
[speaker002:] That's right.
[speaker001:] My husband, he'll change out a light switch, but that's about as far as he'll go.
[speaker002:] Well that's the way mine is, you know,
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] I mean, he, he well he said he went up in the attic and looked around and he was like, oh my God, he says, looks like a bunch of spaghetti up there. And we had squirrels in our attic when we first moved in because the roof was so sorry,
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] [throat clearing]. Uh, was a what,
[speaker002:] The roof was really sorry. I mean when we moved in,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] we had no idea how bad it was. It was a wood shingle roof, and we, the first year we were living there, we had to replace the roof.
[speaker001:] Well he put, which I heard it's a law that you're only allowed to have three layers of shingles. Is it three or five, your husband probably knows.
[speaker002:] He probably knows, I don't know what it is off hand.
[speaker001:] Well, he's got seven layers of shingles up there, and he told us it was a completely new roof. Like I said, he didn't know what he was doing.
[speaker002:] Yeah, he must not of. We stripped ours, we stripped ours off. We didn't put it over, 'cause we put composition roof on. And we completely s-, completely stripped all the old wood shingles off, put decking up, put the paper down, and I mean just started from scratch.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Unfortunately when we were doing that it decided it wanted to snow and hail and rain.
[speaker001:] Oh, no.
[speaker002:] And we, and we had, we had almost, I'd say about half of the roof off, and it did this.
[speaker001:] And, uh, uh, a house full of snow.
[speaker002:] And a house full of snow, and rain,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] and it came down, it did this in the middle of the night. We have plastic, you know, just tied down on everything, you know, as best we could,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] real thick edge stuff, I mean, and the wind came in from the north and it just blew everything off in the middle of the night and we were asleep and, and I woke up and I got up and it was about four o'clock in the morning and I heard all these, these drips, drip, drip, drip, drip, drip, drip.
[speaker001:] Oh, no.
[speaker002:] I had water coming in every light fixture.
[speaker001:] That, yeah.
[speaker002:] I had water coming in everything that was in the ceiling, everywhere. And I mean it filled up my light fixtures, because they're the old kind.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And I would go in, and I'd turn on a light in the room, you know and the light would come on and the whole thing would be full of water. And I mean the light would still come on. It didn't blow up or anything [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] [Throat clearing] My neighbor, or a friend of mine when I lived in Louisiana, her, we all lived on base, my husband was in the Army.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] She woke up about three or four o'clock in the morning, water dripping from hers. The neighbor's la-, uh, washing machine had uh, over done something, I don't know but it was leaking, just pouring water in and it all went through to her roof and it was coming out of the lights, fixtures.
[speaker002:] Oh.
[speaker001:] The fire alarm went off for some reason. It shorted it out, or something.
[speaker002:] Oh, yeah, that will happen.
[speaker001:] So she woke up with about six feet of water in her house.
[speaker002:] Oh, my lord.
[speaker001:] No, not six feet but,
[speaker002:] But it's quite a bit, quite a bit, you know that,
[speaker001:] Yeah you might as well so. Did you have carpets and stuff?
[speaker002:] Oh, several of our rooms got ruined, we have, um, we h-, are on pier and beam, we don't have concrete slab underneath our house,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] so it, it got into the carpeting, got into the floor. The carpeting was already awful anyway, but it got into the floor and rotted the floor and made it stink s-,
[speaker001:] Your house sounds like mine because mine's pier and beam too.
[speaker002:] Oh really.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] Yeah, they came in and they had it, one room they completely cut up the floor in and removed it. We had to call the insurance company. I mean the insurance company was paying for the new roof but they also ended up having to pay for the damage when the re-, roof was being repaired.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] You know, which really wasn't our fault.
[speaker001:] [Wheezing] [throat clearing].
[speaker002:] I mean we'd done everything we could to keep out the weather.
[speaker001:] That's right. That's right.
[speaker002:] You know, and stuff and,
[speaker001:] Well you got to redo it the way you wanted it in the end.
[speaker002:] Oh yeah it,
[speaker001:] Are you finished with it now?
[speaker002:] Uh, the roof?
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Oh yeah, yeah, it's, it's been done for quite some time. We're really glad with all the rain we've had in the last couple of years that we have a really good roof.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh, how long have you lived there?
[speaker002:] Uh, see, it's three, it's just been a-, at three years. We've been in the house just the three years. We've been doing a lot of remodeling. I mean, it's, it had detached, it had a dir-, detached garage and my husband's built a walkway across and we're going to brick up the garage to match the house and things like that so we,
[speaker001:] You all did it yourselves?
[speaker002:] What, uh, the walk?
[speaker001:] The home improvements.
[speaker002:] Oh yeah, yeah, he see he does this for a living,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] I mean this is what,

[speaker002:] okay what kind of crafts and hobbies do you have
[speaker001:] oh not very many of those at uh sometimes I I play the trumpet and sometimes I work on trumpet mouthpieces
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] and then I have a five year old daughter and we cut out things kind of you know and color and uh and uh use markers and things like that
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] um how about you
[speaker002:] um well I used to be more into crafts when I was younger like high school stuff I was in 4H and I did a lot of latch hook made rugs and stuff um
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] and uh I've learned how to crochet but I don't really know I mean I don't do it that much not really an indoor hobby type person unless the weather's really bad I'd rather be outside
[speaker001:] um yeah exactly
[speaker002:] um I used to play trombone
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] I don't know if that was a not really I don't play it that much any more but I'd um what else do I do mainly do reading I don't have a lot of crafty type things I do
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] but uh what are some other things you like enjoy
[speaker001:] I don't know my my father is in the in the antique business
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] and he uh he goes around to garage sales and he buys all kinds of um china and figurines and statues and stuff and um there's some stuff that's really for um uh auto repair it's called J B Weld
[speaker002:] uh-huh uh-huh
[speaker001:] and I repaired a a gasoline tank with it once but he mixes colors in it it's an epoxy resin that you mix together
[speaker002:] oh cool
[speaker001:] and he makes like the other day he was working on a hand that was shattered on a a statue that's real small it's like about maybe the hand's about the size of a cricket
[speaker002:] oh wow
[speaker001:] and uh has uh like the forefinger sticking out and the thumb sticking out and he was repairing that and uh it came out pretty good it's kind of a kind of a ivory color all over and and uh has some age spots in it and it looked
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] you know just like it it had been there all the time
[speaker002:] huh
[speaker001:] and he fixed some fixes some bowls that have the cracks or chips in them and uh molds that in he had a blue blue bowl a few weeks ago that he he fixed that way
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] it worked out real well too
[speaker002:] do you ever huh
[speaker001:] and then he and then he um he thatches uh you know those uh thatched chairs
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] course that's like that that uh hooking that you were talking about
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] that takes a lot of time
[speaker002:] that's great that he has a lot of hobbies and stuff
[speaker001:] yeah and he used to paint um a long time ago but I think he's stopped pretty much now
[speaker002:] oh
[speaker001:] but outside of outside of art class in in school I I stopped doing most of that unless I I mean like he has a computer and I use um the graphics
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] um software on that to uh to do figures and to to look at things you know see how they work
[speaker002:] right that sounds interesting
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] um does he ever uh refinish furniture or anything like that
[speaker001:] oh yeah sometimes but it's it's not one of my favorite things especially from the vapors and we had uh an entertainment center we did last year uh we bought it at an unfinished uh furniture place
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] and sanded it down and uh stained it and then lacquered over it
[speaker002:] it's pretty time consuming isn't it
[speaker001:] oh yeah
[speaker002:] but it's good it's nice to have it when you're done I mean looks pretty so
[speaker001:] um-hum sure is
[speaker002:] I've done that once but it didn't come out that well
[speaker001:] did you use a did you use a Zar stain
[speaker002:] uh I don't remember it was I had my parents buy everything and I ended up it was their table their kitchen table it came out really dark
[speaker001:] uh they had a um well I saw the commercial on TV and they and uh and the people at the unfinished store recommended it that's called a it's Z A R
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] and uh it spreads real evenly and it doesn't dry too fast so it's if you get too much in one spot you can smooth it out and uh
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] and we put we put tung oil on it kind of made it sticky for a while but after it dried out it was you know it was real hard and it was all right
[speaker002:] I remember took me a long time it took me like several months or several weeks to do it during the summer and then after I got it done it was pretty dark and ended up not being real smooth looking
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] since since I've moved away they've had it redone so I kind of kind of gave that hobby up real quick
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] but I don't know like I said I like doing a lot of outdoor stuff so but during 4H I mean they really encouraged to do all kinds of crafty stuff which is interesting interesting I like that
[speaker001:] uh-huh were you in the were you in the Girl Scouts too or
[speaker002:] no well yeah when I was real young I was for a couple years  excuse me so uh anyway it was nice talking to you Dudley
[speaker001:] well it was nice talking to you
[speaker002:] have a good day now bye
[speaker001:] okay you too bye-bye

[speaker001:] um I don't I I am only twenty eight and I haven't had much experience with nursing homes I don't I have never visited any I don't think I've ever even been in one have you
[speaker002:] um actually I have um I've I've been in them but um just visiting and um we used to go when we're like in in our teenagers we'd go on Sundays and visit you know the older people but um I have a elderly grandmother that lives with us
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] and she's lived with us for like five years so I kind of know how it is to have to decide if you wanna put somebody in a rest home or um like we I mean we've had those discussions you know about should we put her in or because she's pretty senile and
[speaker001:] and it takes it takes a lot of care like twenty four hours a day someone has to be well like there's someone in my my fiance's family his grandmother too and they're
[speaker002:] yeah it's really
[speaker001:] that his her son his uncle whatever you know anyway he he has he recently retired and so he's the one who she moved in with when she had a stroke and and all the other children um are working or whatever they're all my parent's age and uh so he's got you know his retirement though is really twenty four hours a day they have a
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] day care two days a week they call it senior citizen day care but she goes to the senior citizen center
[speaker002:] oh really
[speaker001:] so she he gets a break two days a week but it's only for like two or three hours at a time
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] and you know just you see a lot of things like you you know was always a great golfer and wanted to play golf when he retired and you know that a lot of the things he thought he would do when he retired he's not able to do now
[speaker002:] right
[speaker001:] but he refuses to consider any other I I don't know yeah and is that how your parents feel or
[speaker002:] to put her in a rest home um well see it's more of my grandma that feels that way she says that when her husband died that he said
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] oh that my uncle had said that he would never have put her in a rest home so it's kind of uh I don't know I don't think my parents would but she is getting pretty bad like she has to have like a little toilet right by her bed it's and my mom has to take care of her pretty much so
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] it gets I don't know it's it's a hard decision but I don't think I would do it to my parents personally
[speaker001:] I know at this I know I feel like I would never do that with my parents either you know but I I really feel bad for the people I see that not very I'm not really really experienced but like I said just have that one family and that's really so bad for the guy who his whole life is different now and than he thought it would be but
[speaker002:] when he retired
[speaker001:] yeah and he's got you know seven brothers and sisters and and uh he's the one because he's the one that doesn't going to work everyday and that she moved in with when she needed to move in with someone and
[speaker002:] yeah and it's worked out good for us just because my uncle and my and my mom switch off like we have her for three months and then he has her for three months
[speaker001:] I can't say much oh well that's great that's a good idea we ought to
[speaker002:] so that that works out good
[speaker001:] yeah and maybe when the other brothers and sisters retire or whatever I don't know what they're gonna do it's really not my family it's my fiance's so I don't I can't say much but I always feel like I would never put my parents in either and I wonder I'm gonna be the only
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] sibling that isn't gonna have children so if my parents do need to live with someone it'll probably be with me because all my brothers and sisters will be having teenagers around and everything to care for
[speaker002:] really
[speaker001:] you know and I'm I that's fine with me my fiancee I both figure that's what's we're gonna end up with both of the parents or whoever if it you know what I mean we feel like it's our responsibility and I feel like I would never put them in a home
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] but I wonder how much you know if one of us is gonna have to quit work someday or retire early or something you think about it and
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] it's really I don't know this country kind of takes the worst care of the elderly of any other country and
[speaker002:] you think I I I'm not really familiar with how other countries
[speaker001:] it's really more of a um like a respect issue and that the older the older people in other countries that I've been to seem to really have a lot more respect for the elderly people and and they really seen as wise and and in this country nobody really
[speaker002:] they're seen as senile
[speaker001:] yeah nobody really pays attention and they oh the old timer made with the old way and nobody respects the traditions and you know it's I I'm not saying that I do either but you know it's just funny and and we really don't have any they don't have social security and everything really isn't that much for
[speaker002:] right um-hum
[speaker001:] elderly people to live on you know even if they're in good health it's incredible they don't have any they don't get special treatment and maybe they should you know because we're all gonna get old someday
[speaker002:] right um-hum I know
[speaker001:] so it's a it's kind of depressing topic though how old are you
[speaker002:] um I'm twenty
[speaker001:] so it is yeah and it must be rough for you too to see your grandmother
[speaker002:] yeah it's it really is but and she she drives us crazy

[speaker001:] where do you get most of your news
[speaker002:] I watch the MacNeil Lehrer news hour and I subscribe to the paper on the weekends
[speaker001:] where where are you oh yeah
[speaker002:] I'm in Dallas are you in Dallas also
[speaker001:] no I'm in San Antonio
[speaker002:] oh really okay
[speaker001:] um-hum I get my news from a combination of sources I take the the paper everyday and I read it on the way in to work on the in a carpool uh-huh and uh
[speaker002:] um-hum oh really
[speaker001:] and I watch the uh actually I watch the morning news before I leave for work and then you know usually over lunch there'll be a big topic of conversation on something from the news
[speaker002:] um-hum I normally find that uh I I'm probably the most um news hungry of my friends so I don't we don't normally talk about the news at lunch I I find that I have to only subscribe to the paper on the weekend simply because I used to get it during the week
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] but um I would always end up arriving at work late because I would always end up skimming the headlines spending too much time reading it in the morning
[speaker001:] oh yeah
[speaker002:] so I have to cut myself down to the weekend plus after work um the MacNeil Lehrer news hour is on public television and I enjoy that quite a bit
[speaker001:] um-hum yeah um one of the women that I work with her husband is Iranian
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] so here lately with all the Middle Eastern news we've had some very interesting conversations over lunch
[speaker002:] I will admit I work with uh someone who's Iranian and he definitely has a very different slant on the news he's very very skeptical of the news media and I will admit I'm reasonably skeptical also
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] but he's I don't know uh he's much much much more so It's sort of interesting though because he does bring a a much um different perspective with all the Gulf goings on um he was always speaking in terms of you know American imperialism reasserting itself and I suppose it's a different attitude that we normally don't hear in the country
[speaker001:] um-hum well I I uh I like the print news much better than the television news because television news tends to sensationalize
[speaker002:] um-hum true um the
[speaker001:] I understand that the MacNeil Lehrer probably doesn't
[speaker002:] they um tend to spend quite a bit of time on one story they will have maybe two or three main stories and just spend a very large amount of time sort of like the uh what is that ABC's Nightline
[speaker001:] um-hum um-hum
[speaker002:] well I guess they only normally stick with just the one um story but they they can do a much better job since they don't have to chop it into little two minute stories
[speaker001:] they don't report on every murder and shooting that happened in in every little town
[speaker002:] no no it's very much national interest news a lot of times they end up um
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] with these panels of experts and they go back and forth where everyone's giving some opinions and sometimes that I I don't know the value of that because I saw plenty of jokes and and um oh editorial cartoons about all the retired generals making their living during the the Gulf War
[speaker001:] I've been getting a kick out of those lately
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] although um I'm I'm only twenty five so I've never actually been through a period of war and I don't know anyone in the military and I don't have a lot of background knowledge in uh
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] military strategy and and weaponry and and all that kind of stuff and I thought the generals were very interesting now when they started to speculate I I saw that for what it was and thought all of these guys don't know what's going on but I thought they were they they were interesting and and they shed some light on what was going on for me
[speaker002:] um-hum I will admit it's interesting I I I'm twenty six so I don't have any more experience in that than you um
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] it it it was very interesting that it seemed like some of the commentators had their axe to grind you know there were some that were screaming for air power there were some that were saying the air power wasn't going to do it and they seemed to mold the events
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] to their view of the world which I suppose just about everyone does but these guys had a a uh national soap box to stand on and and express this view
[speaker001:] you know one of the the best television news shows that I saw during the war was a show on a Saturday morning on ABC and it was for children and it was hosted by Peter Jennings
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] and it was so interesting because they were relating the war to these children in their studio and they also had children calling in live from all over the country and asking questions and they they had all their correspondents in the different areas in Saudi Arabia and Israel and and all they had them all uh on I don't know what you'd call it other than on line they had them all on hold and if a child asked a question that the person in Jerusalem could best answer they would cut to that person and that person would answer the question it was just very
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] informative and interesting and uh I was real impressed at how ABC handled uh translating the war for children
[speaker002:] um-hum yeah I I didn't see anything like that although I did uh I guess one thing that I found sort of interesting this is getting a little off the topic but there was a a a big push you know with the local T V stations to have little hot lines with counselors
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] to to help parents uh learn how to talk about their war with their children I thought that was a really unusual thing
[speaker001:] and our local HEB stores here I don't know if it's HEB statewide or whatever but they have videos that uh I don't know if they still have them but they were free rental videos that had something to do with the war
[speaker002:] um-hum it it with the children's aspect um-hum
[speaker001:] uh it was it was right it was something for children that that they they had several advertisements on television pushing parents going and and uh getting the video and watching it with their children and discussing it and that kind of thing
[speaker002:] um-hum I suppose that is a valuable service that again not having uh lived through another war I don't know if that's a common thing that people thought of or if that was
[speaker001:] well
[speaker002:] a a new concern with people
[speaker001:] back during the Vietnam conflict that no one will will have the guts enough to call a real war uh
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] the that type of technology just wasn't at people's disposal
[speaker002:] that's true that's true
[speaker001:] so I don't think there's ever been a war that's been so thoroughly covered by the news
[speaker002:] and probably more importantly one that lasted short enough that that people's interest didn't flauge too badly
[speaker001:] yeah I tell you what the first three days I was glued to the television
[speaker002:] I will admit the same thing I would come home and flip on MacNeil Lehrer and they would run these extended two three hour versions of the program and I I was just I was
[speaker001:] and I had yeah
[speaker002:] horrified and fascinated by what I was seeing
[speaker001:] I tell you what the uh the war started let's see was it a Wednesday or Thursday must have been Thursday um and Friday night I was I stayed up until two o'clock in the morning sitting right dead center in front of my television just watching practically with my mouth hanging open
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] because I was watching CNN and they would they would switch back to one of their Israel bureaus and the people would be standing there in gas masks and you'd be hearing the sirens and it was just I was amazed
[speaker002:] um-hum I I didn't have that exper ience I I don't have cable so I I'm pretty much limited to PBS which I thought I thought they did a very good job
[speaker001:] oh um-hum
[speaker002:] um I've got one question for you I you say you take the newspaper
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] um I I found the newspaper situation in Dallas very interesting we've got the one fairly well relatively weaker paper the Times Herald and then the Morning News which has a very strong subscription
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] does San Antonio have you said San Antonio right
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] do you have just one paper or do you have several
[speaker001:] no there are two and they're pretty close uh the one that I picked is more similar in format to the newspaper I grew up near Houston and there are two major newspapers there that run pretty much neck and neck
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] and the one I picked here had the same format as the one that my parents took as I was growing up I mean the same type of typeface on the headline and that kind of stuff I mean it's it's
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] piddley stuff to pick a newspaper over and I enjoy the comics are better in this newspaper like this newspaper has The Far Side and the comics that I enjoy and the other one has some weird ones that I've never heard of so
[speaker002:] um-hum I I actually take both newspapers on the weekends I figure I'm only taking on the weekend and I can afford that I I find the news reporting in the the
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] Mourning News to be better but I sort of have a liberal political slant and the Mourning News just has an incredibly conservative editorial um outlook
[speaker001:] and my fiancee
[speaker002:] I get the Times Herald just to balance that out a little bit
[speaker001:] my fiancee takes probably six Sunday papers He takes both San Antonio papers an Austin paper both Houston papers I guess he takes seven the San Marcos paper and the New Braunsfel paper but he's a football coach at Southwest Texas State University so he's getting all the sports sections
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] and so you know he has these stacks of Sunday newspapers that go unread unless

[speaker001:] what do you like to watch on television Maureen
[speaker002:] well I guess a lot of the uh something that's kind of more of a comedy we do have uh cable and we have premium stations like HBO and Showtime and such and I guess a lot of times when I first turn the TV on I I normally go to those because I pay for them I'm like I guess I want to see if there's anything I really want to see there so I don't end up watching the um
[speaker001:] yes
[speaker002:] prime time on some of the standard channels as much I I tend to go to my premium channels first
[speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh well we have cable but we only have Cinemax and uh I think our favorite night is uh Monday night and we start out with Evening Shade
[speaker002:] um-hum um-hum
[speaker001:] and Major Dad and I think that's the one night that we really try to watch television you know my husband's always got it on I'm not always sitting down at it
[speaker002:] um-hum  yeah Monday night's pretty good with Murphy Brown and Designing Women
[speaker001:] yes yes yes I just I love that all those that that two hours and uh now tonight I just finished up with that A Woman Called Jackie did you watch did you watch it
[speaker002:] um-hum uh-huh we had watched it uh I guess Sunday night and Monday night but we didn't get to watch it tonight
[speaker001:] yeah it was it was pretty good it uh sometimes I like a dramatization and I like uh USA when they have their uh uh mystery movies and things their made for TV movies
[speaker002:] um-hum um-hum
[speaker001:] and uh I like those and we very seldom watch any uh Public Television channel thirteen do you watch it much
[speaker002:] the only night we tend to watch some of that is on Sunday nights starting fairly late like I'm talking ten o'clock and maybe till midnight they have some British comedy
[speaker001:] yes
[speaker002:] that we've we've really liked a there's a variety some of them is uh Black Adder or Good Neighbors or Yes Prime Minister and Are You Being Served they they rotate those around and um we like that British comedy British comedy is very fast you really have to listen but
[speaker001:] yes it is now we haven't watched any of those
[speaker002:] they're real good but they do come on kind of late but we really do enjoy those sometimes we get to watching some stuff on Discovery Channel
[speaker001:] yes now we have watched some things on that
[speaker002:] and I'm amazed sometimes what I see on there but I'm very intrigued I one time I was watching a operation and I thought gee I I don't believe I'm watching this
[speaker001:] yeah we had uh I don't know my husband loves to uh that male syndrome of flicking that channel thing you know and he's flipping around there and and he went by and he said whoops and he backed up and you know there's this surgery going on as we're eating our dinner you know and and I'm saying let's move right on
[speaker002:] yeah yeah right right
[speaker001:] but our grandchildren like that Discovery Channel if they're over here because lots of times they will have things on uh animals and they just thoroughly
[speaker002:] um-hum um-hum
[speaker001:] you know enjoy that in fact I think they were watching something on uh
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] whales or killer sharks sharks one or the other couple of weeks ago over here and uh so we have watched that and uh otherwise of course my husband's into the football
[speaker002:] um-hum um-hum um-hum oh
[speaker001:] and you know I will watch that some if I'm reading or doing something else you know with him and uh but other
[speaker002:] right yeah I'm not into watching sports now my husband likes to watch football  he's not really into uh baseball or basketball too much but uh football soon as it's fall then he likes to watch college on Saturday and then of course Cowboys on Sunday
[speaker001:] yes  yes and sometimes now we're getting it that uh the other football where they play it inside and you know I'm hollering this is a you know this is too much Saturdays and Sundays this is fine but do we have to carry this on into the summer and the spring you know all of that and uh but he will uh he'll flip around I think the other night we had on uh
[speaker002:] yeah um
[speaker001:] uh it was a it was car races some kind of car races where they were bumping over hills and flying into the air and coming down I don't know what channel he found that on
[speaker002:] hm
[speaker001:] and uh but he will turn that on especially for if again if our uh oldest grandson is over here he's ten and uh they'll find something like that and just absolutely sit glued to it I you know
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] I keep telling him it's the same mentality there you know something's wrong and uh but uh and we very seldom watch television on a Friday night or Saturday night because we're not home
[speaker002:] oh
[speaker001:] and uh so and Sundays uh we usually have all of our kids are over on Sunday so you know we don't get into that except that sometimes we'll get into the home videos
[speaker002:] um
[speaker001:] do you ever watch that
[speaker002:] yeah the you mean talking about the funny home videos and stuff yeah those are pretty good yeah
[speaker001:] yeah um-hum that are sometimes so dumb
[speaker002:] but true to life I mean some of the those
[speaker001:] but very true to life I mean I've seen our family in several of those situations

[speaker001:] okay we're gonna talk about the public school system what's wrong with it and or if anything is wrong with it and what we can do about it what should be done about it
[speaker002:] okay fantastic one one thing that pops into my mind real quick is uh about the uh funding of the the school system right now evidently uh that's that's a big problem
[speaker001:] yeah yeah it's amazing um I always thought that teachers never got paid nearly enough I mean to be doing what they're doing
[speaker002:] right
[speaker001:] uh when I was in college I like I enjoyed teaching because I did some teaching part-time and I really enjoyed that but I wouldn't wanna go teach high school or junior high it just you know too many problems
[speaker002:] oh Lord I mean yeah and you talk about stress and pressure I tell you what it's uh
[speaker001:] yeah they're putting in fifty sixty hours a week I'm sure because they got to grade papers and get class stuff ready and you know and they're being paid probably half what most people being paid
[speaker002:] do right exactly and uh
[speaker001:] hey we're paying basketball people you know millions of dollars a year for for what you know
[speaker002:] that's right and then they uh poof it off you know just like Tarpley but um
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] I don't know it what gets me is I can't believe that Congress um or our state legislature can't come up with uh some kind of workable means to have funds for the school you know it's uh I just don't understand that
[speaker001:] yeah it's uh I don't do you have little kids or what
[speaker002:] no uh sure don't my wife and I have just been married about two years but I have a sister that's a uh school teacher and uh
[speaker001:] yeah yeah my wife and I have a a three year old almost four and a and a two year old so we're looking at uh the older one going to school next year not not well not this coming fall but the year after that and the year
[speaker002:] okay okay so it's getting close
[speaker001:] yeah he's gonna be going to kindergarten so so you know we're we're thinking about that what that what that gonna be like are they gonna be taught nothing are they gonna be taught something we're gonna we're gonna be involved in our child's education we're gonna be teaching him what we can at home of course
[speaker002:] right right
[speaker001:] because uh I guess we don't trust the school systems which is really sad um but but it if it doesn't start at home it's not gonna go anywhere
[speaker002:] exactly right that's true
[speaker001:] uh and we're gonna try to teach him good values because you know when when when they get to upper level school and they start teaching well hey if you can play football or basketball that's what's important not if you can read or write or do or understand understand some science you know I mean give me a break that's that's that's bogus
[speaker002:] exactly right right well and uh you know one thing my wife and I've talked about it are uh private schools
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] you know whether uh uh we would want to invest in in private schools as they're growing growing up because you know just in the Dallas area um we're not real comfortable with the with the public schools
[speaker001:] and Dallas uh school district just recently got an advised status because of their low quality schooling I couldn't believe that
[speaker002:] right right you know the one that's one reason we bought a house here in Plano we were hoping you know well the school district's gonna be good you know for resale value and so on and so forth but
[speaker001:] yes
[speaker002:] um I can definitely uh see on down the road you know when we do have kids and are getting to that age that's gonna be a definite concern
[speaker001:] yeah we talked you talked about before about uh the school funding I think there's only gonna be one solution to school funding which I I don't think will be necessarily the best way but I think what's what's gonna have to happen is there's gonna have to be tuition for grade school and junior high and high school kids that's the only way they're gonna fund it because they start raising taxes for property and people are gonna throw a fit
[speaker002:] that's yeah and you know that's taxes is right now are political suicide you know and I don't think any politician's gonna do that so
[speaker001:] oh yeah yeah and the only thing they they would would think of would be tuition you know if it works at colleges it'll work down below and you know that's gonna that's gonna affect the people that are having kids in school of course which is probably the only fair thing to do
[speaker002:] right
[speaker001:] but it'll be hard for those that people have have in school because they have to pay out even more
[speaker002:] exactly and you know it's gonna really hurt the the middle class uh people I think because uh they're the ones that'll probably have to uh uh carry the brunt of the load
[speaker001:] oh yeah that's right
[speaker002:] so uh
[speaker001:] and most the problems with kids in school carrying guns and and knives and everything I mean good grief what's with
[speaker002:] yeah now that's that's just unbelievable to me you know
[speaker001:] I can't believe that I mean when I was in junior high and high school that never happened you never heard about that
[speaker002:] well yeah we didn't we didn't even think about it you know
[speaker001:] no and now you know what we have now you know got kids that Rusty because he like you know a a Magnum gun in school like good grief
[speaker002:] right
[speaker001:] I mean I would I'd be afraid to be in school I mean be teaching or even a being a student and think what's what's it gonna be like for my my youngest and my oldest son when he goes to school what what's gonna happen I mean I I'm afraid for him to go but on the other hand you can't hold them back
[speaker002:] exactly right well no and you and you wanna encourage them you know to to be active and everything in school but uh you know with all the peer pressure that's going on with all the negative things it is uh it's a tough environment to be growing up in
[speaker001:] yeah a lot tougher from it was when I was going to school and that was when I was I graduated high school in nineteen seventy nine so that was what twelve years ago I guess
[speaker002:] okay right
[speaker001:] so you know it's a lot different now and what's it gonna be like in another twelve years when my uh oldest son's in high school
[speaker002:] that's right that's right
[speaker001:] I'm afraid to I'm afraid to even think about it
[speaker002:] no yeah that is a scary thought but uh I don't know I I guess what you have to do is just uh keep encouraging uh you know encouraging them and and uh uh try to be open with them so that you can deal with the problems as they come up yeah and
[speaker001:] that's all you can do you got to you got to be your child's best friend I guess even when they're a teenager and they you know are kind of standoffish still you got to be their best friend because when they got problems who they gonna go to their friends that are dealing drugs or or there parents
[speaker002:] right exactly
[speaker001:] you know and and if they go to their friends dealing drugs they're gonna be in even worse shape
[speaker002:] that's right
[speaker001:] and and the schools don't don't really encourage to stay away from that you know the schools are there teach history and that we fought the civil war etcetera etcetera they don't teach them good values like drugs are bad I don't maybe I'm wrong maybe because I haven't you know been in that kind of environment for a long time but it just is amazing you know need to teach them good values
[speaker002:] right that's true that's true and uh
[speaker001:] of course what what if if I say this is a good value someone else is gonna stand up and say oh no and the ACLU's gonna get after them and have a lawsuit which is gonna take twenty years to resolve you know
[speaker002:] right well and I think uh you touched on it you know you've got to start them at the home
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] you know that's where they that's where they get the the deep-rooted values and and uh and that's about right then you just have to hope and pray that that everything uh works out works out okay
[speaker001:] that that's all you can do that's right well I got to be going so uh
[speaker002:] well okay well hey I appreciate the call you too bye-bye
[speaker001:] nice talking to you Jay hm have a good life uh

[speaker001:] Okay.
[speaker002:] Okay.
[speaker001:] Well what do you think about the idea of, uh, kids having to do public service work for a year? Do you think it's a [breathing],
[speaker002:] Well, I, I think it's a pretty good idea. I think they should either do that, or, or afford some time to the military, or, or helping elderly people.
[speaker001:] Yes, yes, def-,
[speaker002:] I, I, you know, I think that we have a bunch of elderly folks in the country that could use some help and I think that before we expend all our young talent overseas and, and helping other countries we ought to perhaps give a little bit of our help to our own folks at home and
[speaker001:] That's true.
[speaker002:] I'm not sure that that's not a bad idea and, or the military for a year or two,
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] wouldn't be bad for, I think it teaches kids how to grow. How about yourself?
[speaker001:] Uh, I agree with you. Uh, uh, what I'm thinking about is back [breathing], well, when I was a kid, and much earlier than that, kids were kind of, i-, i-, you know, the parents kind of pushed them to join, like the Boy Scouts [children] or Girl Scouts and they did, do, do do a lot of public service activities, but these days they're not, uh, par-, parents aren't encouraging their kids to do things like that. Because when I was in the Girl Scouts, we did a lot of public service things, because that's just part o-, of, of the scouting, and, you know.
[speaker002:] Yeah, I've, I've, that's really great. I, I really think that both the Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts is a excellent, two excellent organizations.
[speaker001:] They are but parents,
[speaker002:] You know, kids seem like when they get ten or twelve years old they fall out of that,
[speaker001:] Yeah, they do.
[speaker002:] and they don't follow it at all, you know. There are very few Scouts go on,
[speaker001:] Oh, no.
[speaker002:] and become Eagle Scouts. And, and I don't know what the high rank is for the gals but,
[speaker001:] I, I, uh, senior.
[speaker002:] Oh. Senior, okay. So, there's not, uh,
[speaker001:] Oh, they're just not, once they get into junior high it just,
[speaker002:] Yeah, they, they lose interest.
[speaker001:] not done anymore [children].
[speaker002:] and then when they young, young adults,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] there's even less interest there. They're more for, I g-,
[speaker001:] Me [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Not, not, yeah.
[speaker001:] Grab, grab, grab, walk out [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Yeah, you're absolutely right [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Yeah [sniffing].
[speaker002:] I think it's a really a good thing. I, I like to see, of course, there's, you know, third world countries that can use all kind of help [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Yeah, but there's a lot that can be done right here in this country,
[speaker002:] But I think,
[speaker001:] too.
[speaker002:] we ought to start right here at home. I'm, you know,
[speaker001:] Yeah, uh, I'm not, I'm not so sure that overseas help, helping overseas would be such a hot idea for, for, uh, a lot of young k-, people.
[speaker002:] No, it, it,
[speaker001:] But, since there is much that needs to be done here.
[speaker002:] I think that, yeah, I think that we need to really address what we've done here and, and then perhaps even a six month tour overseas that gives them much broader outlook.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Well, it's been really good. We talked about this for a few minutes, and, uh, hopefully, we'll have other good topic maybe another call someday, but I, I don't really have too much more to say on this topic, I guess.
[speaker001:] No, I, I agree with you [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] It, we, I guess we both agree that it's a good thing,
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] that they should do sometime.
[speaker001:] Okay.
[speaker002:] Well you take care, and, and,
[speaker001:] You, too.
[speaker002:] enjoy the day.
[speaker001:] You, too.
[speaker002:] Thank you, ma'am. Bye-bye.
[speaker001:] Bye-bye.

[speaker001:] So what do you think about it? How are we doing in recycling? Are we,
[speaker002:] Well, I think we need to do more. I mean, I know I need to do more. They have programs around where you can reach the, uh, they come and pick up your newspapers if you have them bundled up.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] But I have a hard time of being able, of separating, you know, having a place, separating my trash, and get all the
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] cans from the paper, and, you know, I just haven't gotten that dedicated yet [LAUGHTER]. So.
[speaker001:] I do a lot of work with the boy scouts, and we try to do a lot
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] but there's still a lot more we can do.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] You know, I don't recycle my newspapers myself, but I noticed in one of the sales catalogs this weekend they have a, like a, a clothes hamper kind of thing that, you know, you lay your string in, then you put your papers in there
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] tie them all up and bundle them up, so I figured I might get me one of those
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] because we don't always read the newspaper. Sometimes it just sits around for a while, and then we just chuck it.
[speaker002:] Yeah, well, I don't, I don't get the paper every day, but, you know, I get it on, I try to buy, you know, the early edition for the coupons, you know, the Sunday edition. So.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] But, then I just, you know, bundle it up and put it on the front, you know, the front walk ev-,
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] you know, every Monday or every other Monday, and have them pick that up, but that's the extent of what I've done. I'd like to be able to do more. The problem is, with a lot of it is, you have to go, you know, it takes a while to drive to these places where you recycle it, you know
[speaker001:] Yeah see, and,
[speaker002:] it's not always convenient to do it.
[speaker001:] Yeah, see, and here in Lubbock everything's so close. I can imagine what it's like up there.
[speaker002:] Yeah, I'm not exactly sure where the, you know, the can thing is, but, you know, sometimes it's just so, seems so much easier just to take it and throw it in the trash, and have
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] them pick it up than it is to smash the cans and drive it some place to have them.
[speaker001:] See, I went out to Payless Cashways here a couple of days ago, as a matter of fact, and got me one of those little can crushers that I could put on the wall
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and then I put me a little five gallon bucket, and it's just outside the garage door
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] so every time we drink a Coke or whatever we crush the can and just drop it into the bucket.
[speaker002:] Do those can crushers work good?
[speaker001:] Yeah, I got one from Payless Cashways, and it's actually metal
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] it's not plastic. I didn't want to buy a plastic one.
[speaker002:] Yeah because those things I think would just snap
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] you know.
[speaker001:] But Payless Cashways has them and they're metal, and I don't know what affiliate of Payless Cashways you have up there, but it was only like seven dollars, not too bad.
[speaker002:] Oh. I'd have to check into something like that, because, I mean, we don't drink a whole lot of soda around here, you know, but, um
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] you know, occasionally we have some around, but, you know, for other kind of cans, just to, it'd probably only take aluminum cans like that, don't they.
[speaker001:] Yeah, I don't, yeah, I don't think it would crush steel cans, it's pretty tough.
[speaker002:] Yeah, so. I don't know, I don't think you have to crush the other ones for them to get to take that, but,
[speaker001:] No, you could probably just, you know,
[speaker002:] I need to look into it more, you know, it's, you know, it, sometimes, even with the newspaper they say they'll only take certain types of paper, you know, they won't take
[speaker001:] Yeah
[speaker002:] paper that's shiny,
[speaker001:] they won't, yeah, they won't take any lint free paper or, see, I work at T I.
[speaker002:] Yeah, so does my husband, yeah.
[speaker001:] We do a lot of recycling out there.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Now we recycle all our computer paper and our cardboard, but that's just now come on board.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] You know, we've been throwing paper out there away for years, and we're just now getting on board to recycling
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] ever since this big Earth Day thing came out, you know.
[speaker002:] Yeah, I don't know what, you know, I haven't, I'm sure they're probably doing that here some.
[speaker001:] Yeah, I'm sure they are. T I is doing it pretty well nation-wide, I'm sure.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh. I think it's necessary, I, I like it, you know, it makes, I think it's good that you see these, you know, like boxes, cereal, they're now starting to make them, you know, the packages out of recycled paper, and,
[speaker001:] Oh, yeah.
[speaker002:] And I've bought, you know, I've bought greeting cards that are made out of recycled paper, and I think they're just fine.
[speaker001:] Yeah, I bought a, I got one at work that I bought for one of the guys there at work, it's his birthday, we're pretty good friends, and what it is is a recycled paper bag
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and it's just got Happy Birthday printing on it, and a cute little phrase inside, and it's just a paper bag
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] you know, and it's really cute.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] But, I think we're doing better and better all the time,
[speaker002:] Yeah
[speaker001:] still don't,
[speaker002:] I think we're getting, becoming more conscious because we just can't stick everything in landfills any more. So.
[speaker001:] No, there's not going to be any room, shortly.
[speaker002:] No, no, the office,
[speaker001:] I don't know what New York does about theirs. I guess they still ship it out on barges somewhere.
[speaker002:] Yeah, it's probably sitting out on the barge somewhere [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Yeah, so. But I think we're getting better at it
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] I think there's quite a bit more we could do.
[speaker002:] [Talking to someone in the room] Girls, put that away. Now.
[speaker001:] But, you're right sometimes it does seem like it's more trouble than what it would be worth.
[speaker002:] Yeah, I just wish it was a little more conv-, convenient
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] to do, you know, seems like you're so busy anyway, and then that's just one more thing to have to worry about. So.
[speaker001:] Yeah, it sure is.
[speaker002:] I think if, you know, the cities, locally, you know, they'd get more programs going so that you could do that, it'd make it a lot easier. So.
[speaker001:] Yeah, yeah. Well, they'll get at it sooner. I guess the schools will get into it, too, sooner or later.
[speaker002:] Yeah, yeah, get the kids
[speaker001:] You know they have,
[speaker002:] interested in it too.
[speaker001:] We tried to have an aluminum can drive with the cub scouts that I have, and we just don't have any place to store those kind of cans.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] You know, if we go out and pick up a bunch of cans from people, sure they'll save them for us, there's no problem there.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] But what do you do with them in the meantime?
[speaker002:] That's right.
[speaker001:] Now I don't want a can, a garage full of cans [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] That's right, who does. You know
[speaker001:] You know.
[speaker002:] people don't have room for that kind of stuff.
[speaker001:] No, they're just not, they're not prepared for it.
[speaker002:] No, and in Texas, they're just get, things like that, they just get bugs in them. So.
[speaker001:] Yeah, yeah, they do.
[speaker002:] So, you don't,
[speaker001:] You know, the more trash you have laying around the more bugs you get, that's for sure.
[speaker002:] That's right, so.
[speaker001:] So.
[speaker002:] I'm pretty lazy about it right now. Everything goes into one thing and goes out to the [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] You know, pick it up. So.
[speaker001:] Yeah, myself. About the only thing I really recycle around here is aluminum cans.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] So.
[speaker002:] Well, I need to get, get better at it. So.
[speaker001:] Well, if we all try a little bit, a little bit goes a long way.
[speaker002:] Yeah, that's right, that's right.
[speaker001:] If everybody tries to do just a little bit, and a little bit more then
[speaker002:] That's true.
[speaker001:] we'll get there.
[speaker002:] That's right.
[speaker001:] Well
[speaker002:] Huh.
[speaker001:] thank you for talking to me.
[speaker002:] Well, thank you for calling. I,
[speaker001:] Sure, no problem,
[speaker002:] Okay, take care.
[speaker001:] All right,
[speaker002:] Bye-bye.
[speaker001:] Bye-bye.

[speaker001:] Any vacations recently that you would highly recommend?
[speaker002:] Well. That is like my favorite hobby [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Oh, really?
[speaker002:] So, yeah, I would travel everywhere and I have been all over Europe and a lot of the United States
[speaker001:] Oh, wow.
[speaker002:] and Hawaii {C and,
[speaker001:] Wow.
[speaker002:] So, } when I can that is what I do [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Uh-huh. Uh, what, what, has been your favorite trip do you think?
[speaker002:] Well, [inhaling] I am not sure. Uh, I guess Hawaii is one of my favorite places.
[speaker001:] Really?
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Better than Europe?
[speaker002:] Well, no that is exciting. You know, I have been several times so after the first time it is like anywhere.
[speaker001:] Oh.
[speaker002:] You know, it loses that newness, but yeah I love it. I love to go over to Europe. I do and mostly I travel through Germany and Switzerland and we have good friends in England so
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] I have been there quite a bit and I just love it all. I love to look at the different people and the different cultures and
[speaker001:] Sure.
[speaker002:] to see how different they are from things are from the way we do them.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] The most interesting part, more than the museums, and things like that.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] So how about you?
[speaker001:] Yeah. Well, uh, I have been to Canada several times but, uh, that is about it for me. I, I am from Denver
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and so, uh, growing up, uh, [throat clearing] we would spend most of our vacations right there in Colorado. Uh, my family is, uh, uh, real into camping and four wheeling, and so, uh, several, I, I, think, maybe, uh, four summers in a row, uh, we spent, uh, our vacation time in the summer, uh, four wheeling through, uh, [throat clearing] portions of, uh, the southern half of Colorado and, and, uh, every time, uh, my mother had, uh, uh, I have two other sisters and my mother had us, uh, do some studying of the, the, area which we going to visit and then we had to write, uh
[speaker002:] Oh no [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] reports, reports about it during, during our vacation. Which, which, was really fun. It was really fun. We, we, each got to write little books. Uh
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and, [throat clearing] uh, it had sparked an interest that, uh, of mine, uh, my fiancee is a very very good photographer. That is what she had originally gone to school to do. Was photography
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and, uh, I, I, am close to receiving my English degree, uh, as, as, well as my, my, graduate degree, so, so, I, uh, uh, we have thought very seriously of trying to, uh, incorporate travel into and writing a book about, uh, some portion of travel, uh, so we are hoping soon, uh, not soon, maybe within the next ten years to get to, to take a trip over from, uh, over to Europe and take, uh, a trip from the northern portion of France
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] uh, down to the southern tip of Spain, uh, [throat clearing] and follow. It is kind of a backward S shape, uh, trail that the pilgrims use to take, uh, in, in, uh, back in the medieval times, uh, to see the relics, uh, in, uh, southern Spain
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and in Italy and so we would like to take pictures of the gothic and Romanesque monasteries and, uh, just take that journey all the way down
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] and then right a book about it.
[speaker002:] That would be quite a project.
[speaker001:] Yeah, it would be
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] uh, it, it is our big dream.
[speaker002:] Well, it would be a lot fun. You know, there is good and there is bad and my experience in Italy was not my favorite for sure. But,
[speaker001:] Oh, su-, uh, really?
[speaker002:] Well, I flew into Milan.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] My daughter is, uh, a twirling champion
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] and she had to perform over there and, in Turin and so we had to fly into Milan and we got on the subway after so much trouble because the Italians, even if they speak English, they do not want to let you know
[speaker001:] Oh, sure.
[speaker002:] and they gave us all the wrong directions
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Oh.
[speaker002:] and there were just two of us. At the airport they put us on the wrong bus [inhaling]. Finally, we saw a policeman. He put us on the subway.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] We sat there, uh, we did not know Italian. We looked at each other. We said things like spaghetti [LAUGHTER] [Loud].
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] You know things like that. We finally followed some kids who told us where to get off. We followed these kids with, uh, gym bags and we figured that must be the sports arena
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] and we lucked out and then when we needed to go to the bathroom there was nothing but a whole in the ground. I mean it was so,
[speaker001:] Wow.
[speaker002:] It was kind of a nightmare. But, [LAUGHTER] that was our experience and I guess all of Italy is not like that.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] But where we were, it certainly was and the hotel that we stayed in, we stayed with our English friends, their team in the hotel and it was beautiful. It was very modern.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] But it was very far away on a bus.
[speaker001:] Oh.
[speaker002:] So, [LAUGHTER] you know, it was, it was really, uh, it was interesting. You always learn something.
[speaker001:] Yeah, yeah.
[speaker002:] And you always have a fun experience so it is great. You know.
[speaker001:] You said that you have been to England several times?
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] I wonder, have you ever been to a, uh, a small town, uh, well it is actually about thirty minutes from Salisbury. It is called, uh, Bemerton?
[speaker002:] No, I have not. Huh-uh.
[speaker001:] Okay.
[speaker002:] Our friends live like an hour outside of England, like Ash, around there.
[speaker001:] Oh, okay. Alright, yeah.
[speaker002:] So, uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Uh, uh, the reason I am curious, I, uh, the other place I would like to visit, uh,

[speaker001:] so what do you think about it how are we doing in recycling are we
[speaker002:] well I think we need to do more I I mean I know I need to do more they have programs around where you can reach they uh they come and pick up your newspapers if you have them bundled up
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] but I have a hard time of being able of separating you know having a place separating my trash and get all the cans from the paper and you know I just haven't gotten that dedicated yet so
[speaker001:] yeah yeah and see I do a lot of work with the boy scouts and we try to do a lot
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] but there's still a lot more we can do you know I don't recycle my newspapers myself but I noticed in one of the sales catalogs this weekend they have a
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] like a a clothes hamper kind of thing that you know you lay your string in then you put your papers in there and tie them all up and bundle them up so I figured I might get me one of those
[speaker002:] uh-huh uh-huh
[speaker001:] because we don't always read the newspaper sometimes it just sits around for a while and then we just chuck it
[speaker002:] yeah well I don't I don't get the paper every day but I you know I get it on I try to buy you know the early edition for the coupons you know the Sunday edition so
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] but then I just you know bundle it up and put it on the front you know the front walk every you know every Monday or every other Monday and
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] have them pick that up but that's the extent of what I've done I'd like to be able to do more the problem is with a lot of it is you have to go you know it takes a while to drive to these places where you recycle it you know it's not always convenient to do it
[speaker001:] yeah see and yeah see and here in Lubbock everything's so close I can imagine what it's like up there
[speaker002:] yeah I'm not exactly sure where the you know the can thing is but you know sometimes it's just so seems so much easier just to take it and throw it in the trash and have them pick it up than it is to smash the cans and drive it some place to have them
[speaker001:] yeah yeah see I went out to Payless Cashways here a couple of days ago as a matter of fact and got me one of those little can crushers that I could put on the wall
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] and then I put me a little five gallon bucket and it's just outside the garage door so every time we drink a Coke or whatever we crush the can and just drop it into the bucket
[speaker002:] uh-huh do those can crushers work good
[speaker001:] yeah I got one from Payless Cashways and it's actually metal
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] it's not plastic I didn't want to buy a plastic one
[speaker002:] yeah because those things I think would just snap you know
[speaker001:] yeah but Payless Cashways has them and they're metal and I don't know what affiliate of Payless Cashways you have up there but it was only like seven dollars not too bad
[speaker002:] oh
[speaker001:] so
[speaker002:] I'd have to check into something like that because I mean we don't drink a whole lot of soda around here you know but um
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] you know occasionally we have some around but you know for other kind of cans just to it'd probably only take aluminum cans like that don't they
[speaker001:] yeah I don't yeah I don't think it would crush steel cans it's pretty tough
[speaker002:] yeah so I don't know I don't think you have to to crush the other ones for them to get to take that but
[speaker001:] no you could probably just you know
[speaker002:] I need to look into it more you know it's you know it sometimes even with the newspaper they say they'll only take certain types of paper you know they won't take paper that's shiny
[speaker001:] yeah they won't yeah they won't take any lint free paper or see I work at TI
[speaker002:] yeah so does my husband yeah
[speaker001:] and we do a lot of recycling out there now we recycle all our computer paper and our cardboard but that's just now come on board
[speaker002:] uh-huh uh-huh
[speaker001:] you know we've been throwing paper out there away for years and we're just now getting on board to recycling ever since this big Earth Day thing came out you know
[speaker002:] uh-huh yeah I don't know what you know I haven't I'm sure they're probably doing that here some
[speaker001:] yeah I'm sure they are TI is doing it pretty well nationwide I'm sure
[speaker002:] uh-huh I think it's necessary I I like it you know it makes I think it's good that you see these you know like boxes cereal they're now starting to make them you know the packages out of recycled paper and
[speaker001:] oh yeah
[speaker002:] and I've bought you know I've bought greeting cards that are made out of recycled paper and I think they're just fine
[speaker001:] yeah yeah I bought a I got one at work that I bought for one of the guys there at work it's his birthday we're pretty good friends and what it is is a recycled paper bag
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] and it's just got Happy Birthday printing on it and a cute little phrase inside and it's just a paper bag
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] you know and it's really cute
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] but I think we're doing better and better all the time I still don't
[speaker002:] yeah I think we're getting becoming more conscious because we just can't stick everything in landfills any more so
[speaker001:] no there's not going to be any room shortly
[speaker002:] no no
[speaker001:] you know I don't know what New York does about theirs I guess they still ship it out on barges somewhere
[speaker002:] yeah it's probably sitting out on the barge somewhere
[speaker001:] yeah so but I think we're getting better at it I think there's quite a bit more we could do
[speaker002:] yeah yeah girls put that away now
[speaker001:] but you're right sometimes it does seem like it's more trouble than what it would be worth but
[speaker002:] yeah I just wish it was a little more convenient convenient to do you know
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] seems like you're so busy anyway and then that's just one more thing to have to worry about so
[speaker001:] yeah it sure is
[speaker002:] I think if you know the cities locally you know they'd get more programs going so that you could do that it'd make it a lot easier so
[speaker001:] yeah yeah well they'll get at it sooner I guess the schools will get into it too sooner or later they
[speaker002:] yeah yeah get the kids interested in it too so
[speaker001:] you know they have we tried to have a aluminum can drive with the cub scouts that I have and we just don't have any place to store those kind of cans
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] you know if we go out and pick up a bunch of cans from people sure they'll save them for us there's no problem there but what do you do with them in the meantime now I don't want a can a garage full of cans
[speaker002:] uh-huh that's right that's right who does that you know people don't have room for that kind of stuff
[speaker001:] you know no they're just not they're not prepared for it
[speaker002:] no and in Texas they're just get things like that they just get bugs in them so
[speaker001:] yeah yeah they do and you know the more trash you have laying around the more bugs you get that's for sure
[speaker002:] so you don't that's right so
[speaker001:] so
[speaker002:] I'm pretty lazy about it right now everything goes into one thing and goes out to the you know pick it up so
[speaker001:] yeah yeah myself about the only thing I really recycle around here is aluminum cans
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] s o
[speaker002:] yeah well I need to get better get better at it so
[speaker001:] well if we all try a little bit a little bit goes a long way you know
[speaker002:] yeah that's right that's right
[speaker001:] if everybody tries to do just a little bit and a little bit more then
[speaker002:] that's true
[speaker001:] we'll get there
[speaker002:] that's right
[speaker001:] well thank you for talking to me
[speaker002:] yeah well thank you for calling I
[speaker001:] sure no problem
[speaker002:] okay take care
[speaker001:] all righty bye-bye
[speaker002:] bye-bye

[speaker001:] well the the question was talking about the juries and um one of the things I thought about was on a lot of the drunk cases that they were having that especially for repeat offenders that um maybe there should be stiffer penalties for those people who come back again and again um so that um a judge I think would be the most appropriate person to uh to be able to sentence somebody since they do it over and over again every day
[speaker002:] right I I kind of agree with that because I think in some cases uh the jury may not even have the information about other crimes the person has committed
[speaker001:] right
[speaker002:] uh I I think that in some cases that's considered to prejudice the current case
[speaker001:] right
[speaker002:] so a a judge you're right should have the whole dossier of the criminal there and if they're judged guilty would probably be in a better prison position to give an appropriate uh sentencing
[speaker001:] um-hum yeah see I agree with you um one thing I heard was this where they have instead of going to the regular court they have a a mock court I mean it's supposed to be all legal and everything uh you go and you present your case the other side presents their case and you're done with it it's almost like the Night Court we see on TV um and um but it's not that we have uh such it didn't backlog or all of the uh the cases that are uh all ready pending
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] um so I that was one thing I thought about that would be really neat if we could do it that way
[speaker002:] in other words not not there would be some types of crimes for which you're not guaranteed a jury trial
[speaker001:] yes yes Now
[speaker002:] I I I don't there's there's a point on which we don't agree I would tend myself to say that we should continue to guarantee a jury trial for criminal cases anytime a anytime a
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] one of the parties wants one and I usually it's the defendant I guess that wants to have the jury hear the case
[speaker001:] um-hum sure
[speaker002:] so I'm I'm not out for streamlining things to the point where we uh take that you know that would require a change in the Bill of Rights I believe and so
[speaker001:] oh yes and and I wasn't I didn't mean that I I didn't mean that no because I mean gee whiz if I was uh uh didn't have that right you know not to have a jury that oh yes I would feel um
[speaker002:] oh oh okay
[speaker001:] you're right that my civil rights had been violated but I meant for some when both parties agreed that yes we're going to have a judge here we're not going to have a jury you know let's get it over with sort of like car accidents you know
[speaker002:] right well I think that's all ready possible I think that you can waive the right to a jury trial uh
[speaker001:] yeah right right
[speaker002:] yeah so I agree that that should be encouraged you know people should know that that's an option just in case they feel they have to have a jury trial but I think most lawyers do a pretty good job of making that evident to
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] to clients unless they feel they can you know tweak a jury into perhaps
[speaker001:] right giving a different sentence
[speaker002:] giving a different sentence or possibly if it's a civil case giving higher uh you know awards of money or something since usually the lawyers get a percentage of the the award
[speaker001:] um-hum the take right right
[speaker002:] yeah and I suspect it in cases like I guess we were supposed to be doing criminals though rather than civil is that right
[speaker001:] well I I it we're at liberty to to talk and and meander as long as it's all on the same theme um-hum
[speaker002:] yeah well uh um in the case of civil civil uh things I think maybe the the use of the jury is very often to the lawyer's advantage and I think that may be where jury use is overdone you know I mean there are cases where they could be settled maybe out of court a little more efficiently but the lawyers are really
[speaker001:] right right
[speaker002:] uh it's to their advantage to play to as big an audience as possible so uh I was wondering too if they were thinking about the judge making awards in civil cases
[speaker001:] um-hum uh-huh
[speaker002:] not just sentencing in in a criminal cases uh
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] I'm not so sure I'm in favor of that but I am in favor of it for criminal cases so there's a difference of my view there for those two
[speaker001:] right right yeah but well you can tell I haven't been in too many juries judges chambers or anything like that and well I was called once when I was nineteen and um
[speaker002:] have you ever had to serve jury duty uh-huh
[speaker001:] but I was doing so many other things that they took took pity on me and I was doing school and things like that they they let me out and I've never had to it since and that was almost twenty years ago
[speaker002:] uh-huh uh-huh it it isn't sort of amazed me they first caught up with me for the first time in uh that would have been about uh twenty years too um uh just last year and
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] uh the case I heard was a criminal case and it seemed it really trivial it involved two bicycles we didn't do the sentencing the judge did
[speaker001:] um-hum huh
[speaker002:] so
[speaker001:] how interesting
[speaker002:] we'd we uh rendered a verdict and then the judge was the one to do the sentencing
[speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh
[speaker002:] and that was here in Wisconsin so I I don't know if that varies from state to state or if it varies

[speaker001:] Hi. So, uh, what was the last car repair you had?
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] Just recently I was kind of laughing when I, when I heard the switchboard talking about the question because, uh, I had to have my, uh, radiator flushed
[speaker001:] Oh.
[speaker002:] and it was getting rusty. And the thing that they forgot to do was to, um, to also look at the hose, and I had gone about oh, two days with my new radiator flushed and the hose burst. So I was stranded out on the highway [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Oh, no. Did you crack the block or what?
[speaker002:] No, I, I didn't do that thank goodness, but, uh, there seemed to be enough antifreeze in there, you know, left to do that but it cost me all kind of money, you know, to have that repaired after they said they were going to, they had repaired it. So that was, that was a horrible experience
[speaker001:] Yeah, I see.
[speaker002:] just recently.
[speaker001:] You got lucky you didn't ruin the whole engine though.
[speaker002:] Yes, yes.
[speaker001:] That can be pretty serious.
[speaker002:] I know. I know. What about you?
[speaker001:] Oh, I guess it's been awhile for me. I'd sa-, it's been about a year.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Yeah, I had the, uh, the water pump break on my car.
[speaker002:] Oh.
[speaker001:] Yeah, I was traveling, uh, I was going on my way home from Thanksgiving
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and it broke like in the middle of nowhere.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] So, I had to get it towed and then fixed and
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] big pain.
[speaker002:] Oh, oh, I know. I know. Especially when you're out on the highway.
[speaker001:] Yeah, that's where I was. Luckily someone came by and gave me a ride.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh. Uh-huh. I know, well, you know, uh, living in Dallas, you know we've got, uh, bumper to bumper eight lanes of traffic and, uh, that was, that was horrible.
[speaker001:] Yeah [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] You know to have the, you know, your car is fuming and everything. It's already a hundred degrees you [LAUGHTER] don't need that too.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Oh, shoot [lipsmack]. But my car is getting old. See it's about six years old now, so.
[speaker001:] Yeah, so is mine [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Yeah, so I got it right out of college and so it's, uh, it's starting to show the wear and tear now.
[speaker001:] Yeah, I'm hoping mine gets me through. I got until May until I'm out. So when I cross that one I'll be okay.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh, uh-huh. Yeah, that, uh, that was my graduation present to myself, so.
[speaker001:] Oh, that's nice [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Yeah. Yeah, I know so but gosh, it's really starting to, to wear so I've been thinking, especially now is a good time to buy a car.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] Go-, because I can't, uh, I don't know if I want to, you know, pay all these repairs now to start getting it fixed when it's starting to breakdown.
[speaker001:] Yeah, I don't want to do too much on mine because it will be worth more than the car is and it's not worth it [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Uh-huh, uh-huh. Yeah, that's true. I agree with you there.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] So I don't know, uh, because I, I need to have it tuned, you know, tuned up and I don't know, replace some of the belts. And I was looking at the, uh, tires need to be replaced and so I was thinking just a lot of money I'm, might as well buy me a new car for that.
[speaker001:] Yeah, I got new tires last winter too so I'm like, well, that's the last major purchase for this thing. It's not worth it.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh. Well, you have to, in Pennsylvania, boy, [NOISE] you have to really have your car winterized and stuff, huh?
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh [NOISE].
[speaker001:] Yeah, we get some killer winters up here in the mountains.
[speaker002:] Oh, really?
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] Oh, okay. So,
[speaker001:] Lot of snow and a lot of cold.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh. Well, especially don't you have what, a lot of salt on the ground?
[speaker001:] Yeah, at times there's a lot of it.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] You got to like clean out the underneath of your car all the time when you get a chance.
[speaker002:] Yeah. Yeah, well, rust and the, and the body too, huh?
[speaker001:] Yeah, I haven't had a big problem with that though.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] So I've been pretty lucky there.
[speaker002:] [Lipsmack] Well, I think they get the new Z-bart stuff and everything to where you can, um,
[speaker001:] Yeah, that's usually pretty good. You just rinse it off after the winter is over and
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] done with it.
[speaker002:] Yeah, and go like that so.
[speaker001:] Yeah. I usually like to do most repairs on my own though.
[speaker002:] Do you?
[speaker001:] Yeah, just because that way I know what's wrong with my car and what it needs and what it really doesn't.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh, uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Yeah. Plus if something goes wrong, I know who to blame.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Well, I, I think I'm getting too old for all that. My, uh, I had four brothers and they used to drag me out underneath the car, and stuff so I can, I can do all that stuff but I, I think I'd much prefer to pay the twenty-two ninety-five to, to go have it done now so I can get my hands dirty.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] So, yeah. I'm just getting, getting to that age I guess. You just don't have, your time becomes very precious so working on the car is just not one of those things I want to spend my time on anymore [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] More fun things to do.
[speaker002:] Absolutely, absolutely. So,
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] yeah, I'm trying to, you know, I just need one, I had two cars there for a while so I wouldn't have to worry about which car was going to run.
[speaker001:] Well, that's nice.
[speaker002:] And yeah, so but it became a hassle trying to keep up and maintain both of them.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] And yeah, so that,
[speaker001:] One is bad enough [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Yes, one was bad enough. But I think I got rid of the wrong one [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] I soon, I need a lot of repairs done on, on this one so yeah,
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] that was, uh, that was something else [pause]. Well, are our five minutes up? [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Yeah, I was just wondering that [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] I, I didn't, I didn't set the time or anything to, uh,
[speaker001:] Yeah, I didn't either.
[speaker002:] Yeah, put,
[speaker001:] Yeah, this must be a, a hard category.
[speaker002:] Well, yeah, I guess. Um, you know, unless you're, um, you know, big do-it-yourselfer. Um, to, you know, fix up your own cars and, and things like that. So, but I guess they were talking about experiences. You know, I, uh, uh, I did, my parents live in Ohio so I, I do know something about the, you know, the really cold weather. And, uh, I've always lived down here in the south, and, oh, I took my car up there to their house and, um, I guess I had a crack in the block, and when I got up there the car,

[speaker001:] So, what kind of neat hobbies do you have?
[speaker002:] Well, I like gardening a lot, I like to be outside, um.
[speaker001:] I like gardening, I wish I had a green thumb, though.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] I've got a brown thumb. That's what everything turns.
[speaker002:] Oh [LAUGHTER], is, but, do you tr-, keep trying anyway?
[speaker001:] I keep trying, uh, you know, you just can't, can't give up on it, uh, I, uh, I bought some, uh, plants from Michigan Bulb Company [LAUGHTER] they send them to you all ready alive.
[speaker002:] No, no, I've never had any luck with their's.
[speaker001:] Oh really.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] I guess, I guess these are going to croak too.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Since I've got cats, I decided to get some catnip.
[speaker002:] Oh.
[speaker001:] Lots and lots of catnip, so it's, it's still green, and it's been two days so I'm encouraged [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] No, I, I haven't had, had good luck with that company, uh, I think some of it depends how long things stay in the mail, probably.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] But, I've had to, to get my money back from them and had better luck with, with some of the, the more expensive companies.
[speaker001:] Yeah, there's a, uh,
[speaker002:] Because they,
[speaker001:] I don't know, do you have Lowe's up there?
[speaker002:] Uh, well,
[speaker001:] Its, uh, building, uh, contra-, or building supplies place.
[speaker002:] No.
[speaker001:] Um, they, they also have a garden shop and,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] they, they offer just as good a guarantee, if you buy it from them.
[speaker002:] Oh, that's great,
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] now our local stores don't, don't offer any guarantee.
[speaker001:] Um.
[speaker002:] But some of the, the mail order ones that I've dealt with for roses and that, they offer through, through the first Summer.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] Which at least if they, if they take off the first year, they're probably going to come up unless there's, uh, a terrible freeze or something.
[speaker001:] Yeah, yeah, yeah, something like that. Uh, I got a whole bunch of bulbs along with this stuff, so, I'm going to wait on those.
[speaker002:] Oh, they're bulbs for Spring or Fall?
[speaker001:] Uh, probably Spring, but, uh, I don't much care about things like that. I'll, I'll make a little sort of greenhouse, a miniature greenhouse to put all this stuff in.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Something, something, to keep me occupied, you see.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh, uh-huh.
[speaker001:] I'll, uh, buy some plastic and make a little house and,
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] Cute.
[speaker001:] yeah, and watch the cats tear it up.
[speaker002:] Right. I don't know that, do cats bother bulbs? I think more the mice or other rodents.
[speaker001:] They, they just like to get in and dig.
[speaker002:] Oh, I see so if you have fresh dirt, they'll [LAUGHTER],
[speaker001:] Oh, they love to dig. I had, I had some, uh, I don't know what kind they are, I've already forgotten, just regular old flower seeds and I planted them and I was so, I was so thrilled because they came up, I mean nice green shoots coming up all over the place. And then my cats got into it and started digging and that took care of that.
[speaker002:] Uh, gee.
[speaker001:] So, I have to hang these things high, so they can't get to them. Especially the catnip.
[speaker002:] How many cats do you have?
[speaker001:] Three.
[speaker002:] Oh okay.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Actually I just, put a, uh, little fence around my yard, uh, um, which is I suppose, technically illegal, but I had so many groundhogs last year that I think they'll let me get by with it, and it, it's got this one inch mesh and what I've noticed it's kept the cats out and I love it [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Um, yeah, yeah, because they, they like to get in and fertilize things too. But, uh, why would it be illegal?
[speaker002:] Well, because we have these tow-, uh, I live in a townhouse and anyway all of our areas have associations that you have to get permission.
[speaker001:] Oh, uh, yeah, right.
[speaker002:] And, you know, they want, uh, privacy fences.
[speaker001:] Well, if nobody, yeah, if nobody complains you're all right.
[speaker002:] Right, right. Well they do walking tours too, so.
[speaker001:] Um.
[speaker002:] But at least, because I back up to, um, a hillside where the, uh, wild animals are, I think I can probably justify it.
[speaker001:] Um, yeah, an, and if somebody raises a stink about it you can always go before the association and argue your case anyway.
[speaker002:] Right, right, I me-,
[speaker001:] You know, you don't have to put up with all these wild critters coming into your property.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] Right, the first year, the deer ate my garden, and I was just astounded. I'm going deer, right here in the city [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Yeah, right here, Bambi [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] Exactly.
[speaker001:] Uh, gosh.
[speaker002:] And so,
[speaker001:] Well, let's see, other than gardening which I fiddle at, I'm not very good at, what else do I, mostly just computer stuff.
[speaker002:] Oh.
[speaker001:] I just like playing with my computer and doing stuff on that. Uh, cooking, that's not really a hobby, it's a necessity.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] But, but I enjoy it. I like to think that I'm a very good cook.
[speaker002:] Oh, great.
[speaker001:] Um, hobbies, that's about it. I don't have much time for hobbies, uh, between being a student and trying to run a business on the side, you don't have a lot of time.
[speaker002:] Right that keeps you busy.
[speaker001:] Yeah, and raising cats.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] I mean that could become a hobby.
[speaker001:] Well, it's, it started out as a hobby actually.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Uh, it just, it developed into sort of a business, uh, you know, we breed them and all that, but, we didn't, you know, we didn't really start it for the money, it was just, they were fun to have around and we figured if we're going to have them we might as well have some purebreds an. And now it developed in to going to cat shows and finding studs for them, and, you know, all this kind of stuff.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh. What kind of cats are they?
[speaker001:] Uh, I've got a, uh, a Bombay, a Turkish Van and a Himalayan Persian.
[speaker002:] Wow.
[speaker001:] Yeah, the Himie is probably the sweetest one. She's, she's just a little sweetheart.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] We, uh, the, the Bombay had a litter, uh, last October and w-, I just got her back from the vet this morning, getting her spayed. Only going to breed them once.
[speaker002:] Oh, okay.
[speaker001:] And, uh, she's not, she's not feeling too great today.
[speaker002:] Um, is that typical, to only breed them once?
[speaker001:] No, uh, m-, most breeders are in it for the money, so they'll bree-, they'll breed them twice a year and I,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh, uh-huh.
[speaker001:] I just think that it's kind of, I don't know, it's kind of cruel. You know, they just, they just breed these, they breed them before they're ready, uh, and,
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] you're never, you're never rea-, and, and they, they do a lot of inbreeding too, and so you end up with, you know, kind of strange kittens.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh, uh-huh.
[speaker001:] And I just don't like that.
[speaker002:] So will, you, uh, breed one of the litter, then next year?
[speaker001:] We're, we sold all that litter,
[speaker002:] Oh.
[speaker001:] um, we, there's not that much call to, for Bombays.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Um, they're, they're registered but they're not, they're not, uh, they're not show cats.
[speaker002:] Oh, I see.
[speaker001:] Uh, so all you can do is sell them as pet quality.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Uh, so what you've got is a registered pet. And, not too many people want Bombays. They want things like Himie Persians and Turkish Vans.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Turkish Vans, if you've never seen one, I mean, you wouldn't know that it was a pure bred. It's just, uh, medium size short hair cat. It's got, he's mostly white with, uh, brown and black patches.
[speaker002:] Oh.
[speaker001:] But they have nice personalities and they're very inquisitive. Um, now the Himie, we'll probably breed her a couple of times and we'll, we'll end up keeping one out of each litter and then breeding those.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] It's just the stud fees are so much, though. It'll cost about three hundred dollars for a stud for her. We, we want to breed her with a champion, so.
[speaker002:] Right. Now these are long haired?
[speaker001:] Yeah, the Persian is,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh, uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and the other two are short hairs.
[speaker002:] Right. Uh, that's nice.
[speaker001:] Yeah, she's, uh, she's sweet. Going to have some nice kittens, I hope.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] She's, uh, she's, if yo-, if you know what a Himalayan is, generally they look something like, uh, well they come in a lot of different colors. People don't realize it but they're sort of like, uh, Siamese in a way. They have the, uh, they have the gloves on the paws and they're, they're usually two colored. Uh, but this one is, uh, is she's, pre-, predominantly, uh, black but she has chocolate, uh, paws, chocolate stomach and silver on her hindquarters.
[speaker002:] Gee.
[speaker001:] And yeah, she's, she's quite attractive looking.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh, uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Hope, hope the stud will find her attractive.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] And that she has kittens that look like her.
[speaker001:] And, and that she has a whole bunch of kittens. But we have to be careful, uh, you know, we have to get a particular color point, uh, stud. You can't just breed them with anything. We have to get a, uh, we have to get a silver point Himie, so that the silver will be predominate in the kittens.
[speaker002:] I see.
[speaker001:] That's, it, that's the fun part, trying to figure out what you've got to breed them with, can't just go out there and say, okay, you guys breed, you know [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] You can't just tell them that anyway, but [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] That's right.
[speaker002:] Oh dear. Well it really sounds like, uh, uh, a business more than a hobby.
[speaker001:] Well actually, I mean, it, it is a business in a way, but it, it's a lot of fun as a hobby. Especially when you go to shows and get to see all the different cats. We're, we're about to get another breed, we're go-, we're going to buy a Devon Rex. And I didn't, I don't like Devon Rexes at first.
[speaker002:] What is it.
[speaker001:] It's a, well actually it's a mutant. It, it comes from England and, uh, fr-, in the county of Devon.
[speaker002:] Oh.
[speaker001:] And it's a mutant cat. And they're, they're pretty expensive, we're going to, we're going to shell out probably about a thousand bucks for one. Um, they're very thin, they're, they're, they're long and lanky and skinny.
[speaker002:] Um.
[speaker001:] And they have real short hair. It's curly, as a matter of fact.
[speaker002:] Huh, interesting.
[speaker001:] Um, yeah, it, it, it's a strange looking cat. Uh, I didn't like them at first. They've got great big ears,

[speaker001:] Uh, I guess, uh, I've always been kind of interested in, in, space and stuff. I've,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] read a lot of the,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] the, uh, astronomy books and,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and stuff like that. Uh,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh. Have you been following the, uh, the progress of the space health code?
[speaker001:] Uh, to a degree. I haven't kept up as, uh, much as I would like,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] I've just been so busy, uh,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] I barely get a chance to read a newspaper now and then, so.
[speaker002:] Yeah. I think it's pretty exciting that they can, uh, it would be interesting to see if they can find, uh, other planets that are, that will be more habitable to, uh, you know, uh, humans and, uh, yeah, I think I would be very interested in space travel in the future if, uh, if it, you know, if it is at all possible.
[speaker001:] Yeah. Well, I wouldn't even mind, uh, being a pilot on one,
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] or right now but I'm probably getting a little too old for that.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] Well, I know if they make the advances that they have been making, that, uh, maybe age will no longer, age or even physical, uh, abilities may not be, uh, a barrier anymore.
[speaker001:] Right. Yeah. Well, they, they just made leaps and jumps. I think a lot of our, our technology we have is, is quite a bit due to lot of the space travel, uh, uh, equipment and stuff that,
[speaker002:] Yeah, I agree. Uh, as a matter of fact we're the ones that I have been to Houston to, to, you know, to visit the, uh, space center out there, and, uh, one of the big advances that we use every day now is Velcro
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] and, uh, that vacuum, uh, little space program was one of the big, you know, backers of that.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] It's amazing, you know, you, it's hard to imagine what life was like without it now.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] I don't know if you ever watch Gallagher, you know, he's one of the comedians and
[speaker002:] Uh-huh, yeah, I've h-, seen him before.
[speaker001:] and, you know, he, he talks a lot on, on Velcro.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Wh-, i-, what would we do without it? [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Yeah. Yo-, we were talking about that just the other day. What did we do without it back then?
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] I guess there was a lot of buttons and a lot of zippers and snaps.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Yeah.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Yeah, there's, there's a lot of, a lot of little things that have come up. I know maybe some of the big things that, uh, uh, concentrated foods for one maybe [LAUGHTER] I don-,
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] That's right. That's right.
[speaker001:] Uh, I don't know it's also just I've, I've often pictured, uh, in my mind, you know, what it would be like to just, what would you find if you just kept on going, kept on going?
[speaker002:] Uh-huh. That's true.
[speaker001:] Uh, I guess our minds are so, uh, uh, what is it? Uh, finite
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] when we try and picture the universe as an infinite object,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and it's hard to, to see, you know.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] I always thought well, what do you do hit a brick wall, eventually.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] It's hard to consider that something could go on indefinitely.
[speaker002:] Yeah, that, that is, uh, that is something that would be hard to think about. I agree. You know like you say we're used to finite things and something that is infinite and just incomprehensible.
[speaker001:] Yeah. But,
[speaker002:] But, uh, yeah, I would like to see them, uh, do more in that area to make space travel more, uh, something that the ordinary person can, uh, en-, enjoy.
[speaker001:] Yeah. I know it's I think it's in people's nature to be the first to do something.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] And I, I'd love to be the first one to step on a planet or some like, you know,
[speaker002:] Yeah. Yeah, me too. I wouldn't even mind being [LAUGHTER] not so much being first but just, uh, get out there and, and just explore.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] I think, uh, it's in everyone's nature to some degree to want to get out and explore something they haven't,
[speaker001:] Huh.
[speaker002:] or experience something, you know, indifferent.
[speaker001:] I think that's what made us, uh, progress to the state we are is our curiosity.
[speaker002:] Oh, sure. Sure. Of course. That's true.
[speaker001:] There must be some better so-, better way of doing this. A better place to be or whatever, you know it's,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] So you, you are always looking for something better.
[speaker002:] Yeah, that's true.
[speaker001:] I know at work, uh, people always complain to me I, well, you are always whining and,
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] it's, I'm always looking for something better. Uh,
[speaker002:] Yeah [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] There's a better way of doing it than what we are doing it.
[speaker002:] That's right. That's right. And if you are just content with being, you know, with the way things are then, you know, then you must lead, lead a pretty dull life.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] Because if yo-,
[speaker001:] Well, they are always finding easier ways and, you know, just because they don't talk about it or something like that.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] And they are doing it un-, you know, unconsciously.
[speaker002:] Yeah, I guess, uh, you don't really think about it too much. I guess you are always finding newer ways and better ways of doing stuff but yo-, it, it's in a subconscious, you know, thing. You know, somewhere they can sit down and write down what, you know, things that you've improved upon, you probably wouldn't have a pretty good list.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] But you just don't think about them.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] [Lipsmack] And that's true. I think, uh, you know, we've gotten different programs at work, you know, to, to, uh, make it visible to management that we are doing things better,

[speaker001:] okay
[speaker002:] great um currently I'm not doing a whole lot of exercise in any type of program
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] I'm mainly do a lot of walking um I have a son that's a little bit overweight and um the best thing we found to do with him is to walk around so my wife and I kind of take turns um at one time I had a a fairly regular exercise program but in the last couple of months I've changed to a a new residence and everything has gotten kind of turned upside down all this space that uh normally would be dedicated towards the exercise area is uh covered in boxes
[speaker001:] yeah um what did you do when you exercised when you did exercise regularly
[speaker002:] well I had a a a little routine that I I did for uh warm ups and then I did some uh very
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] mild mild say light weight lifting nothing and I'm not trying to make big bulging muscles just trying to try stay as firm as I can stay in my old age
[speaker001:] uh-huh yeah
[speaker002:] um
[speaker001:] well right now um I try to when it's nice out it's been raining a lot this spring but I try to I have a bicycle and I like to cycle a lot and uh my husband and I we have entered a few rallies that's pretty popular in Texas I don't know if it's up north but
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] like every weekend a small town will sponsor a rally and uh thousands of people come with their bikes and ride over hilly terrain for thirty or forty miles which that's a lot of fun um so we try to ride ride during the week to stay in shape for that
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] and um TI where I work has uh a fitness center so a lot of times after work or maybe on the weekend we'd go over there and lift weights and do the treadmill and um they have stair masters and all kinds of new machines that are fun to ride and and workout on so I try to I'm trying to stay in shape on a regular basis I used to get into it and then get out of it based on my schedule so I'm trying to stay in in shape on a regular basis now but it's a big commitment we don't have any kids yet so that's a lot of the part of it
[speaker002:] yeah that's that's that's a plus uh I have a total of five children I have three left living at home
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] and they do take up a big part of my uh my evening and weekend
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] and it's tough being a parent and trying to do all the things that you should do for yourself too
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] it's uh something they don't tell you about when you're growing up yes when you become a parent most of your life is going to be dedicated to your children
[speaker001:] uh-huh that's why uh they they uh really stress um at TI they really stress staying in shape but like in staying fit overall fitness you know no smoking and all that but it's it's hard to find uh a actual exercise regimen that works for you you know because like I know a lot of people that cycle they take their kids behind them on the bikes and I don't know if that would work for me because
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] I don't know I wouldn't want to pull a kid over hilly terrain but you know it's really hard to find something that works and it you know to find time to do it and stay committed to it like three days a week or whatever I think maybe walking or running would probably work because you it doesn't take much time and much money or whatever
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] well there's you you have to uh what I found from my experiences you have to budget time for yourself
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] and then uh the you you can use what ever rationale you want but basically the healthier you stay the longer you'll live
[speaker001:] right
[speaker002:] and uh you know if I spend a little bit of time each day or a little bit of time every other day doing something for me to make me live longer well then I'll be around a lot longer those people that I'm taking the ten minutes or twenty minutes away from now well you know get the enjoyment of me years past where I would have been if I hadn't taken it
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] so if you kind of think of it as a rationale like that it works out fine
[speaker001:] yeah um I've been learning a lot lately about um I've been reading a book by Kenneth Cooper I don't know if you're familiar are familiar with him
[speaker002:] um
[speaker001:] he was the pioneer of aerobics and all of health really he's kind of redid um uh just pretty much the innovator of the whole exercise thing um and he was talking about the three things you could that cause aging are smoking inactivity and what was the other one I think it was yeah obesity so if you can control those three areas then you are going to live longer you know because those are risk factors so anyway it's kind of a tip
[speaker002:] yeah oh I've done a lot of study over the years and I found that uh probably one of the worst things that uh anybody can ingest is chlorinated water
[speaker001:] really
[speaker002:] yeah um the research I've done and uh I've actually been in the drinking watering business since eighty three and
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] it's it's amazing that uh you know like prior to like nineteen twenty there were not very few heart attacks
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] there were none prior to nineteen hundred well in nineteen oh three they started experimenting with chlorinating the water in nineteen thirteen most of the major cities had chlorinated water and then after that we started having the hearts attacks
[speaker001:] man
[speaker002:] and uh Dr Price wrote a book Coronarys Cholesterol and Chlorine you can usually find it at a health food store
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] I know they had it in health food stores in Plano I used to live in Plano
[speaker001:] Dr Price
[speaker002:] that's uh Dr Price yeah and it's amazing he makes the in you know it's a very small book and the guy's very opinionated um but he makes a very good case against chlorine there were no heart attacks before we started using it and he says points out that people in uh England and uh or eating diets that quadrupled the amount of cholesterol that we're ingesting now
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] and they weren't dropping dead of heart attacks and
[speaker001:] that's really interesting
[speaker002:] yeah he did some experiments on chickens whose arteries are very similar to ours
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] and uh proved that ingestion of chlorine causes arteriosclerosis which is the clogging of the arteries and uh
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] you know he's uh there's been a lot of reports since then and this whole thing about you know first it was stress then they went to cholesterol and now they're saying what's cholesterol well there's good cholesterol and there's bad cholesterol and
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] you know it's it's it's amazing what he points out in that book and that um in fact he even uh there was a uh toxicologist for the Environmental Protection Agency who did work back in nineteen eighty six who wrote a letter to Dr Price in nineteen eighty seven and in this letter he praised Dr Price for the work he did back in the sixties on this
[speaker001:] hm
[speaker002:] and said that the EPA had been doing experiments on non human primates and proving that ingestation of chlorine causes arteriosclerosis and EPA never published that report
[speaker001:] and what's the name of this book again
[speaker002:] uh Coronaries Cholesterol and Chlorine
[speaker001:] I'll have to remember that that'd be really interesting my husband wants to go into med school and be a neurosurgeon so he's really interested in the heart
[speaker002:] yeah yeah
[speaker001:] and he's in fact he's a well heart too I mean he's uh he's done a lot of research on like how your heart re reacts reacts to exercise sorry he just made me laugh um
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] so anyway I have to remember that
[speaker002:] yeah there's there's a there's a lot of good information out there uh about health and a lot of the uh a lot of the myths they've been passing around people are are starting to realize aren't true I mean I'm all for having a diet high in fiber and all that because that's that's good for you
[speaker001:] yeah um-hum
[speaker002:] uh but to to believe some of the things that they you know and I don't think anybody should be going out there and eating a high high fat diet but to think that that solely alone is going to cause something like arteriosclerosis is
[speaker001:] hum-um
[speaker002:] it's just hard to believe
[speaker001:] if you get a chance read Dr Cooper's book on controlling cholesterol
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] that's a real good um he talks about that talks about high risk factors and heart disease and all that
[speaker002:] yeah I actually eat pretty much anything that I want
[speaker001:] that's right uh-huh
[speaker002:] and I've had my cholesterol checked and uh you know a few times and I've never been above uh like a hundred and fifty never
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] and uh uh I mean I
[speaker001:] you have a good ratio of good to bad cholesterol
[speaker002:] um you you well what they tell me but I mean you know everything's like within uh five to ten percent and all that kind of thing you know they leave themselves wide open so they can't be sued
[speaker001:] yeah huh
[speaker002:] but uh we've uh I work at the TI site in Hunt Valley Maryland
[speaker001:] oh really
[speaker002:] yeah and we've had a few of the health fairs up here and you know I've always come out aces
[speaker001:] that's good
[speaker002:] and I'm you know I'm not really that big on on watching what I eat I I do eat you know some health cookies that are high in fiber and
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] low in fat and all that kind of stuff but I mean as far as being really concerned about ingesting too much uh chlorine I'm not or cholesterol I'm not worried about

[speaker001:] Okay [LAUGHTER]. [breathing] I'll let you go ahead [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Okay. I, uh, I have five children all together.
[speaker001:] Oh, uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Uh, my oldest two are already out and about in the world and I, uh, have a set of twins that are fourteen
[speaker001:] Oh.
[speaker002:] and, uh, my youngest is twelve.
[speaker001:] That's great. I always thought it'd be great to have twins.
[speaker002:] Uh, yeah. If you like doing everything twice [breathing].
[speaker001:] Well, yeah [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Uh, at any rate, um, my first two children, uh, I didn't spend a whole lot of time with them.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Um, [smack] and, you know, was a, a problem with having five children needing to work a, uh, a full-time job that,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] was more than a full-time job. I,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] worked about fifty-one hours a week, because I worked every, [breathing] worked eleven hours every Sunday.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And, uh, so I didn't get to spend as much time with them as I, as I should have, as I really wanted to.
[speaker001:] Your first ones you mean, it,
[speaker002:] Yeah. The,
[speaker001:] was this way?
[speaker002:] yeah, the f-, well, it was with all of them,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] but it was, uh, more an impact, I think, on the oldest two.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Because, um, [NOISE] oh, about the time I got out of working that long hours was when the, uh, [NOISE] when the twins were about three years old. And, uh, they never, you know, I don't think they noticed I wasn't around that much.
[speaker001:] Oh.
[speaker002:] You know, with all the children around the house, it's,
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] kind of hard to notice that Dad isn't around,
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] very much. [NOISE] Um, [smack] so, what I've tried to do, uh, now that I've, uh, fi-, went back to school and got my degree when I was thirty years old.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And, uh, so, then I came out and was making as much money forty hours a week as I did fifty-one hours,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] a week. So, I've tried to spend more time with, uh, the children since then.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Um, what I'm currently doing is, uh, taking a lot of time. I'm helping the kids more with their homework in the evenings. Um, we just started a thing where every other week we go to, uh, movies. There's a movie theater that offers dollar movies on Wednesday nights.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And so, every couple of weeks we will go to the movies because that's how often they change the,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] movies. And, it's working out pretty well. Um, we're spending more time together. I feel like I'm a lot closer to the three that are still living at home than I ever was to the two that were living there before.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Um, in fact, I found that I'm a lot closer with, uh, I have one son who's gone and I don't even know where he's at.
[speaker001:] Huh.
[speaker002:] Um, he's taken off for parts unknown,
[speaker001:] That's difficult.
[speaker002:] but, uh, yeah.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] A-, and, uh, my daughter is, um, [smack] has moved out of the house. Her and I get along a lot better now that she's moved [LAUGHTER] out of the house [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Uh-huh [LAUGHTER]. It happens that way [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] And uh, so it's, it's, it's, it's been difficult to try to find the time, and I think it's important that we do, because, uh, [smack] I notice that, uh, when I had spent two years down in Dallas, down there they all have a, uh, a me kind of attitude.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And I noticed parents not spending time with their,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] children and, and going out and doing things. And, you know, I knew like the kids next door were all into cocaine and,
[speaker001:] Um, uh-huh.
[speaker002:] you know, it just, you know, I saw the family falling apart down,
[speaker001:] Texas is,
[speaker002:] there.
[speaker001:] much worst for the drugs. I mean, it was bad enough every place else, but drugs is, in Texas, are extremely bad.
[speaker002:] [Smack] Yeah. And so, I think it's kind of important that I, that I, you know, nurture the relationship I have with my children now.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And I'm doing my best
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] to keep that up.
[speaker001:] Well, that's all you can do.
[speaker002:] Yeah. What's your, been your experience?
[speaker001:] Well, I, I was going to ask, too, does your wife work?
[speaker002:] Um, she didn't up until the last, oh, six months.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Um.
[speaker001:] She just recently started working then.
[speaker002:] [Smack] She just recently,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] started working. Uh, she worked a job until we moved to our new house and, uh, she quit that job because it was too inconvenient. And,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] uh, she starts a new job tomorrow, which should take her out of the house about four days a week.
[speaker001:] Oh, uh-huh. Uh-huh. So, that sounds great. [smack] Well, uh, [smack] we also have five children.
[speaker002:] Huh.
[speaker001:] And, but ours are all out of the nest [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] So, uh, as, when they were growing up, I, probably we had a lot of similar things l-, like you had, you know, having the time. When you have younger ones to take care of, you maybe sometimes do not take as much time for the older ones.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] But, uh, we were, we're very active, of course, at church, and, uh, Boy Scouting, and Girl Scouts, Four H, uh, and those activities helped a lot in,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] giving us things to do with the children. And uh, we try to take a vacation with them every year, camping of some sort, something that wasn't expensive. And, uh, our youngest is, uh, expecting her first baby. So, they're, they're all out and on their own. [NOISE] They're, and we have one to get married yet [LAUGHTER]. And they'll all be married. Uh, and they're, they're all doing pretty good. They, uh, T lives in Pittsburgh, you probably don't know where that is.
[speaker002:] Certainly do.
[speaker001:] Okay. Two of our children live there. Uh, one, I, like I said, lives near Maryl-, in, in around Maryland, D C. He works right on the border of D C.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] And one lives in Connecticut [tape skips on Speaker A's section] and our baby lives just a mile over the hill [LAUGHTER],
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] so, we'll get to see her a little more than, uh, what we do the other ones.
[speaker002:] Yeah. That sounds great. I've, I've noticed, uh, another thing, um, [smack] when I was younger my father was always working.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh. Well,
[speaker002:] And,
[speaker001:] they have to.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] And, uh, you know, he, uh, he worked a full-time job and a part-time job,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] and I never saw him.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] So, I didn't have much of a role model to go by.
[speaker001:] To go, to follow.
[speaker002:] {D You,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] know, } to learn how to be a, a father and,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] a parent, and that kind of thing, because,
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] I, I can't ever remember playing ball with my dad or,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] catch with my dad, or doing anything with my dad.
[speaker001:] And that does make a big difference.
[speaker002:] Yeah. And it, if you don't have, I don't, I, it's my feeling that if you don't have a role model to follow
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] then it's kind of tough.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] You know, everybody's not FATHER KNOWS BEST.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Yeah,
[speaker001:] That's,
[speaker002:] but,
[speaker001:] that's, well none of us are. Let's face it,
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] you know, we're not none of us like they pro-, portray it on those shows. I mean,
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] life's much more difficult than that.
[speaker002:] Yeah. {E I,
[speaker001:] And, uh,
[speaker002:] mean, } the, the, the capability to, uh, create children doesn't necessarily mean you have the, uh, the mental capacity to raise them [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Right. Right.
[speaker002:] And,
[speaker001:] Now, our daughter, our, well, she's our second oldest, she has, she's the only that, other one that has children. She has two boys. And, she works full time and I have mixed feelings about that. She's able to do that and I don't know if she'd be happy to stay at home. But, yet, on the other hand, I, I've got the mixed feelings that I think you should be at home with your children. I'm kind of old fashioned, I guess, that way.
[speaker002:] Yes.
[speaker001:] But they seem to, they seem to give, uh, quality time to those children when they are together. And, and so, it seems, [NOISE] it seems for them that it works out all right. So, I don't know. I, I don't think I ever would have had what it would take to work full time and raise a family. So,
[speaker002:] Yes.
[speaker001:] I,
[speaker002:] It's, it's not easy.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] I've, uh, you know, I've helped out extremely, uh, well, I can't say [NOISE] that, but I've helped out [LAUGHTER],
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] as best I could at home.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And, uh, y-, as you know, with five children it takes a lot of work.
[speaker001:] Yes. It does,
[speaker002:] Even,
[speaker001:] it, it, yeah.
[speaker002:] if, even if someone's home all the time, there's still a lot of things that have to be done.
[speaker001:] Yeah. What line of work are you in now since you went to school and, *slash error
[speaker002:] Uh, well, now I work for Texas Instruments.
[speaker001:] Oh,
[speaker002:] So,
[speaker001:] okay.
[speaker002:] so, I'm in computers.
[speaker001:] Okay. A lot of the people I've, that's call-, I've talked to work for, uh, for the same.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Uh.
[speaker002:] And so, I've, uh, prior to that I, uh, I worked in a food store.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And, uh, you know, wor-,
[speaker001:] Which your income would be a lot better,
[speaker002:] Uh, *slash error
[speaker001:] now.
[speaker002:] right. *slash error
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] Yeah. It, uh, it was, uh, it was a, a smart move to make.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Um,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] I was more intelligent than the position I was holding.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] And, uh,
[speaker001:] And it's,
[speaker002:] it was,
[speaker001:] kind of a waste of a person.
[speaker002:] [Breathing] Yes. I, I,
[speaker001:] You know.
[speaker002:] felt that it certainly was, I mean,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] I was smarter than most of the people that I was working for.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And, uh, you know, every time something new came up, I was explaining it to them.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] uh, I,
[speaker001:] And you,
[speaker002:] had,
[speaker001:] you recognized this and,
[speaker002:] No [breathing].
[speaker001:] was able to, you know,
[speaker002:] Yeah. I, uh,
[speaker001:] do something about it.
[speaker002:] [Smack] Yeah. I, uh, started back to school. In fact, I was going to school while I was working fifty-one hours a week and that's why I, you know
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] if you're working, if you're taking twelve credits at night and you're working fifty-one hours a week, there's not much time left to spend with,
[speaker001:] Well, it puts a strain on everybody, your wife and your family.
[speaker002:] Yeah [breathing].
[speaker001:] And, the only thing you can remember is to [LAUGHTER] [tape skips] try and stay together as much as you can,
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] because it's very easy to, uh, become, go your own direction
[speaker002:] Yeah [breathing].
[speaker001:] when you're s-, when you're working so hard and going to school, too.
[speaker002:] Yeah. Well, it, it all paid off.
[speaker001:] Well, that's wonderful.
[speaker002:] So, uh, you know, I got my degree and got the better paying job, and
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] and, uh, you know, we, I think as a family we're a lot better off.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh. It sounds to me like, uh, you're doing well. My husband's retired, so, uh, he's been retired for three years now.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Yeah. That's quite a change.
[speaker002:] [Breathing] Yeah, well, my goal is to try to retire by the time I'm fifty-five.
[speaker001:] Oh, well, he made it at fifty [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Great.
[speaker001:] [breathing] It was a magic number for him and, and, uh, he went at fifty, and he still works part time at other thing, you know, same job as he was doing, only he's retired and doing it independently.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] But, uh, nevertheless retired.
[speaker002:] Well, I'm [fade out].

[speaker001:] oh how's your products been
[speaker002:] um I really haven't had uh too many problems uh seems to me that everything that I buy goes bad just after the warranty runs out
[speaker001:] I hear that one have you had any lately go out
[speaker002:] yeah I've had a dryer an ice maker a microwave all three and they unfortunately I bought them all three at the same time when I bought my new house and uh I really don't have any recourse so I had to call and have them all repaired and that
[speaker001:] oh wow
[speaker002:] yeah it was a hassle
[speaker001:] so you didn't get anything even all the all the warranties were out
[speaker002:] yeah the warranty on the refrigerator uh the ice the refrigerator warranty's still good but the ice maker itself lasted three years and it was three years and two months
[speaker001:] you're kidding yeah we just moved into a new house too so we had to buy all those too
[speaker002:] no uh watch out
[speaker001:] yeah the only thing I've had problems with is um I buy a lot of wood working equipment through the mail and
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] I bought this paint stripper where they advertise that it's nontoxic and such and when you get the product it ends up being toxic and all these warnings so
[speaker002:] hm
[speaker001:] I didn't return it because it'd probably cost me more than I just ended up using it but that's about the only thing I've had gone wrong
[speaker002:] I usually have pretty good luck with appliances but I just uh it was within two days that all three of these stopped working and the
[speaker001:] that's incredible
[speaker002:] the ice maker was uh had to have a new pump and the uh microwave had to have uh some kind of something I can't even pronounce and they uh the dryer had to have a new heating element so it was about almost three hundred dollars for all three of them
[speaker001:] and they all went out at the same time
[speaker002:] uh within two days of each other
[speaker001:] or two days wow
[speaker002:] I was it wasn't a good week I was pretty mad and plus the place that I'd bought um them all had gone out of business so even if uh I think even if I had uh had kept the warranty the service agreements were with the companies that that manufactured but still they were through that retailer so I don't know if I could've taken it to another retailer or not
[speaker001:] wow that's frustrating
[speaker002:] but I didn't have to worry about all that because they weren't under warranty
[speaker001:] so
[speaker002:] it was a call to the local appliance dealer
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] who came out and fixed them all but I the only other things that I've ever had trouble with um I seem to have a real bad trouble with electric hair dryers blow dryers
[speaker001:] uh-huh they go out a lot
[speaker002:] yeah I've had two or three of those go out one was under warranty and the other two weren't but I just other than that you know TVs and things like that I haven't ever had any trouble with I don't think products are getting much better though
[speaker001:] yeah see I'm in the manufacturing field I just home from work and make um automotive air bags the safety air bags
[speaker002:] oh really that's interesting
[speaker001:] yeah at Morton International and I think well it's it's changed a lot with the manufacturing environment we test everything after each assembly process and so our testing is pretty thorough but
[speaker002:] do you do you test each individual one or do you just test
[speaker001:] um
[speaker002:] like if you've got ten you test one and by the test results of the one you assume that the other nine are okay
[speaker001:] um the tests that well we test every one electrically we don't I think they test um four or five a day actually exploding the air bag
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] and but we do test after during the assembly project product um after we assemble each part of the inflator or what explodes the bag we check to make sure it's there after we install it so each assembly process has an inspection right after it's done and then we do electrical tests on them during the process so
[speaker002:] well that's something I've never had to use it's never I've never been involved in an automobile accident so luckily that's a product that I haven't had to test but I think it's a great idea I'm I'm
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] seems like all the good logical ideas take forever to to come about but that
[speaker001:] well they do the all the testing that we have to do through the government it's incredible how much testing they have to do
[speaker002:] oh I'm sure they wanna be thorough before they but uh even you know I don't mind spending the extra money on the car
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] if you know even if they pass the savings the cost onto the consumer because it just seems like a real worthwhile thing I'm not a real big seat belt my uh

[speaker001:] I'm actually at work
[speaker002:] oh
[speaker001:] I I'm in facilities and happen to have uh weekend duty here
[speaker002:] oh okay what building do you work in
[speaker001:] I'm in the South Building
[speaker002:] oh okay okay
[speaker001:] we we pull mostly evenings we are having there's three of us uh facilities managers are covering the off shifts just to have somebody here uh from management to uh see if they need anything
[speaker002:] oh okay okay
[speaker001:] oh the how many calls have you made
[speaker002:] I've only made a few um
[speaker001:] okay I'm uh getting close to twenty this is the yeah hopefully you have a lot to talk about in this one but I don't really have a lot in this one usually I can talk for hours on most of the subjects they pick go ahead you first
[speaker002:] okay our topic for today is invasion of privacy so I got a good one
[speaker001:] okay good
[speaker002:] when the phone rings and you've got a recording and this always happens like around five or six o'clock at night it rings and you get this recording and then it won't go away and any any of the type of solicitation that where they call all the time you know
[speaker001:] oh yeah
[speaker002:] there are evenings especially Friday nights Thursday and Friday nights well we must get in the neighborhood of anywhere from three to six calls about that time of night more people call that's where you want to jerk the phone out of the wall you know your sitting down to eat and the phone rings and it's like
[speaker001:] right
[speaker002:] I don't want anything thank you very much
[speaker001:] yeah I the worst one I guess is like you when it's a recording I think I don't mind so much someone calls and it's uh and it's a salesperson at least you can chat or whatever and say okay now we want to go and then when when they actually start off with a a computer and expect you to talk to a computer uh that's where I draw the line I just hang up immediately you know
[speaker002:] um-hum um-hum oh yeah
[speaker001:] uh shut my other radio off here
[speaker002:] yeah that's that's that's real irritating to me
[speaker001:] uh uh I guess they get their name I'm I'm amazed the I was I was question about that uh my concern would be everyone seems to have an answering machine and I have one too and they say that they can tie up your answering machine and just have a big long
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] if they catch your answering machine
[speaker002:] they can leave their whole spiel on it
[speaker001:] yeah they they can erase all your others you know because if you have I think that's the way it is no mine I guess if it's full it will not take it I'm not sure but they can certainly uh block your answering machine so someone else calls you uh and your answering machine is full you know it won't erase
[speaker002:] um yeah that a
[speaker001:] but your right that was a good one
[speaker002:] yeah that's that's a high irritant for me drives me crazy and it doesn't matter if you have an unlisted number or not because a lot of times these computer things will just make up numbers at random and just call them
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] and so it really really doesn't make much difference as to whether or not you know you have a unlisted number or not and they pass around uh cards that have everybody's name on it like if you order something through a mail order catalog
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] you know then you'll start getting a bunch of stuff in and a bunch of stuff and a bunch of stuff because they sell their customer list or they sell their catalog list of people to different companies
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] and everything
[speaker001:] I've got one it's not really an invasion of privacy but it's uh annoyance for me in the office with uh speaker phones you know I they're they're great for an office but this one guy next to me who's not here just so I could talk about him he uses his speaker phone all the time and it carries over and so not only would you hear it seems to me that you talk longer for one thing you kind of yell into it
[speaker002:] right right
[speaker001:] uh and so he yells into it and you hear the other person too so it's kind of a double annoyance he actually uh ruins my privacy you might say because the the TI offices are so open anyway
[speaker002:] uh-huh uh-huh
[speaker001:] uh that I'm amazed that in fact I'm I'm about ready to say something uh if he's even thought of that that's a real uncourteous thing an an invasion of everyone else's time and and concentration to just be loud I don't know whether that's an invasion of privacy just being loud and and annoying you know uh that's perhaps not quite an invasion of privacy but I think it is and you we both picked phone items there
[speaker002:] um-hum oh yeah oh yeah
[speaker001:] go ahead do you have any more
[speaker002:] let's see I'm trying to think oh have you heard that that I'm trying to think of what company it was there was a company that was going to uh be giving out information about your financial status
[speaker001:] oh yeah that's that's a good one too yeah I heard something about not that exactly but go ahead
[speaker002:] well um I work in the computer science center and so we hear a lot about things that are that computers are capable of doing
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] and uh this was a software program that a company was developing that was going to have X amount of million peoples financial history and information on it and they were going to sell it to companies who would up in turn solicit you for business et cetera et cetera
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] and uh they finally uh stopped production of it because of all the hullabaloo it caused because it was such a big deal and I wouldn't have been too thrilled about it either I mean there was a lot of stuff going on about it
[speaker001:] uh-huh well I uh heard something similar to that I listen to I'm a uh uh a talk show person
[speaker002:] okay
[speaker001:] and other words when I when I do my chores I put the radio I'm a radio person I guess is what I mean and so I listened to was it five seventy which has continuous talk on the weekends
[speaker002:] um-hum um-hum
[speaker001:] and Neil Sperry and everybody I mean the lawyers and veterinarians and all that and uh I don't know if it was a lawyer or whatever it was talking about when you make out a financial a financial application all that information on there is really not necessarily even a your social security number you know they you should just put down the basics and put N A where you don't want to answer
[speaker002:] um um-hum
[speaker001:] whether it's your personal salary or whatever uh if your just making out a credit card application you don't need to put down and I was curious as to what you know what specific things you you did have to put down but he says social security you don't need to put that down there which I thought was surprising so maybe there's something along that same line where you know in all these
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] financial uh applications that you make out you don't have to put all that stuff down there it would be nice to know what's what was of course of course they could say well I can't give you a card and you could say fine but you know some things will be private you know but he said just put N A and he said usually you'll get approved anyway because they just want your money anyway they want your card but if you don't feel like putting it down just put N A you know
[speaker002:] um-hum well that's real interesting I know that a lot of times they ask for information that they don't really need on several things
[speaker001:] yeah yeah
[speaker002:] and you know your credit application and that all all they ever need you to do is give them permission to to pull a credit thing on on yourself and there it is that's all they really care about they just want that credit history to see if you're a liable person
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] if you're going to go ahead and pay your bills on time and things like that
[speaker001:] I haven't I don't have any friends down at the the Austin plant but I heard that they were really upset about the drug thing and we seem to up here have just breezed through that and apparently some other companies are having trouble that I don't have any trouble with it uh it's kind of unusual here we are in Dallas you know the biggest location and and it just breezed through and wasn't really no one was I guess was really too concerned about it uh yet in Austin there there were whether it was a class action or how far it got I don't really know because TI only had a few things on TI News I think about it that they were objecting to but uh some people object to that which I don't mind uh problem at all you know
[speaker002:] oh I know that there's several people I've talked to that really have a problem with it and I'm former military so you get kind of used to to going through stuff like that you know you don't pay any attention to it I mean once you sign over your soul to Uncle Sam might as you know you just kind of
[speaker001:] hum yeah right right  I know
[speaker002:] kind of blow it off but so
[speaker001:] I know yeah I served my time too yeah
[speaker002:] so I think I think the people who have who have been down that route or have had it to deal with anything like that have learned you know it's just one of those things you just do it and be done with it and don't worry about you know but I do know that there are several sites I didn't I wasn't aware that Austin was one of them but I think Johnson City was one
[speaker001:] yeah oh did they object too
[speaker002:] yeah there's there's several of the cities that have been having real trouble with the issue
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] and the but also on things that I'd heard too from a stockholders meeting was that there were people uh there were the same places where they had a real bad problem with people fighting it were also places they had a big bad problem with the drug usage too
[speaker001:] yeah well I'm I'm all for it I uh it doesn't bother me that whether they do it in high schools or you know carry it to wherever you want to carry it really uh
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] uh of course that would really be a big thing in a public school but uh I'm saying certainly at work I have no problem with it uh uh and I think it is they they found that it's been very low really
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] I guess maybe at the locations though I don't know if they have it done but done it by location I don't really know if uh they need to publish that really
[speaker002:] oh I don't think it's a necessary thing to publish it they just need to deal with it and on an individual basis I mean if they're going to do it just deal with it and be done with it
[speaker001:] right right right but I think that was an actually actually a good thing that happened uh I never considered it I guess it's an invasion of your privacy but it's something that is for the good of so many people you know to have everyone uh take the test randomly and uh
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] and hopefully maybe some people will convince other people that are on drugs that well uh I might as well get off you know if I want to stay so uh you know if that was an invasion of privacy maybe it was good
[speaker002:] um or well I think it's a safety factor too because you know when people are inebriated whether it's alcohol or drugs or whatever they are very unsafe for the their coworkers you know it's like
[speaker001:] oh sure
[speaker002:] you know my father was a fireman and I can just imagine if you know you know some guy being on drugs they go there and and you know you've got somebody that's supposed to take care of you and they fall they fall out because of the drug issue you know
[speaker001:] right um-hum
[speaker002:] I mean you can forgive somebody because all of a sudden they maybe get hurt or whatever that that you can understand but the blatant use of drugs or anything like that
[speaker001:] right
[speaker002:] will uh be a problem
[speaker001:] go ahead you got me more I this is this is a tough one I don't really haven't thought about any of this they had gardening yesterday and auto repairs and boy I could

[speaker001:] okay uh could you tell me what you think contributes most to uh air pollution
[speaker002:] well it's hard to say I mean while it's certainly the case that things like automobiles and factories uh pollute a lot um if you look at how much pollution is say kicked up by an active volcano uh it's certainly less than clear that anything man can do in this sort of scale of things has much effect at all what do you think
[speaker001:] um well you talked about uh volcanos I'm not sure how many active volcanos there are now and and what the amount of material that they do uh put into the atmosphere I think probably the greatest cause is uh vehicles
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] especially around cities um uh do you live right in the city itself
[speaker002:] uh no I'm more out in the suburbs but I certainly work near a city
[speaker001:] uh okay so can can you notice well it's it's I live in a rural area
[speaker002:] how about you um-hum
[speaker001:] uh it's mainly farms and uh no heavy industry uh Attleboro itself I live in Rhode Island
[speaker002:] um-hum oh I see
[speaker001:] and it's in the north I live up in the uh northeast corner and Attleboro sits in just over the line
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] where TI's plant is but there isn't a lot of heavy industry there's the freeways and we get an occasional well it depends which way the wind's blowing from Boston because we're only like about forty miles south of Boston so we'll pick up that
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] and uh I've noticed over the past say maybe five or six years uh we live about twenty miles away from the state airport and I notice the fly patterns now of the jets are they getting bigger they're swinging wider so that now they're coming over the over the our homes
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] and it seems like uh um we're catching all their residue I'm not sure if it's kerosene or what that's dropping but other than that you know we don't have the unless we're catching it from the midwest the emissions yeah from the power plants
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] um
[speaker002:] don't you mean like from the coal
[speaker001:] yeah yeah we generate one of our our biggest electrical plants in Rhode Island uses coal to uh generate electricity um
[speaker002:] hm
[speaker001:] there doesn't seem to be much emission from them but I'm not sure about the rest of the country
[speaker002:] yeah I've noticed locally a major problem is Kodak um it's interesting because in order to uh keep with the EPA standards which which tend to be visible uh what's coming out of your smokestack they do all their emissions at night uh so people get up
[speaker001:] is that right
[speaker002:] yeah people get up in the morning in that neighborhood and they've got this black ash on their cars which you know seems to be
[speaker001:] yeah yeah yeah yeah surprise surprise
[speaker002:] yeah I mean I really think if the EPA had anything on the ball they'd go in there with a few phosphorous grenades light up the sky photograph the emissions at that point and uh
[speaker001:] yeah them there must be uh um some of the some of the uh
[speaker002:] you know
[speaker001:] uh larger plants up around up around one twenty eight um we've got reports that uh during the night too like they blow off their their stacks from uh the
[speaker002:] um-hum right
[speaker001:] the boilerhouse for powerhouses and they do that at night too because employees been complaining that the cars have been pitted and you know spots all over them
[speaker002:] um-hum right yeah yeah
[speaker001:] so you're right they could do something about about that I guess
[speaker002:] yeah that seems a little ridiculous
[speaker001:] how are your uh your lakes and uh
[speaker002:] oh they've been getting cleaner
[speaker001:] they have
[speaker002:] sure but um yeah I'm not sure how much the water pollution is is directly related to the air pollution other than acid rain yeah
[speaker001:] acid rain yeah that's that's what I was uh
[speaker002:] I mean the stuff I've read recently in Technology Review basically indicates that acid rain may be a little bit um overstated that a lot of the die off they've seen in forests may not really be due to acid rain at all um yeah I'm not an expert
[speaker001:] yeah no didn't they just have an article oh on uh they were dumping lime up upstate New York somewhere
[speaker002:] hm
[speaker001:] um over over huge areas and and they thought that was more beneficial because you know and it some of it does soak in and some of it runs off right away into the into the streams and rivers and some of the fish were supposedly making a comeback
[speaker002:] I haven't read that oh yeah um-hum
[speaker001:] I can't remember where I I read that recently somewhere and I can't remember where but I thought it was up there so that's interesting because New Hampshire
[speaker002:] you know it's interesting um-hum
[speaker001:] and parts of Vermont um they showed pictures of of extensive tree damage that they attributed to acid rain um
[speaker002:] hm
[speaker001:] do you kind of think it's something else then
[speaker002:] well that's what the environmentalists were claiming in this article so that
[speaker001:] oh they didn't say they didn't say what though they just said they thought it was
[speaker002:] they didn't say what they just said they thought acid rain's contribution may be less than was previously suspected um but it may be other natural things at work um
[speaker001:] hm natural disease
[speaker002:] yeah so it's it's less than clear like I said I don't remember the article that well
[speaker001:] yeah yeah
[speaker002:] but um I don't know I mean what do you think we can uh I guess as individuals or as a group do about uh air pollution
[speaker001:] uh we can demand uh more efficient automobiles for one thing I still think that's that's uh one of our major causes of pollutants
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] uh how we go about that it's uh uh it's a little bit difficult
[speaker002:] so you think it's just up to individuals to ask automakers for uh less polluting vehicles
[speaker001:] yeah you need you need I think you need a a uh vehicle something like uh uh Ralph Nader uh Nader's Raiders or uh where uh or uh uh AARP
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] which has a lot of members uh if you can get those types of groups
[speaker002:] um-hum do you really think new vehicles though is a big problem I mean I remember reading an article that said like it's the older polluters the the twelve and the fifteen year old cars you know contribute like ninety percent of the automobile pollution and the new cars it's hardly it's hardly anything
[speaker001:] yeah they're better but how about all the trucks and buses that are out there uh when when was the last time you saw a truck that didn't belch smoke or uh or
[speaker002:] yeah but doesn't that just mean they're out of tune
[speaker001:] uh I'm not really sure you think that that the uh the trucking industry uh industry is that uh incompetent that they wouldn't you know fuel is is one of their biggest costs
[speaker002:] right
[speaker001:] so you would
[speaker002:] but diesel engines
[speaker001:] yeah diesel engines
[speaker002:] it you know it's it I mean they do generate a lot of soot but that at least you know that kind of particulate comes out of the air pretty quickly
[speaker001:] yeah yeah we could also uh push for legislation for uh rapid transit systems uh this country seems to be a little behind on that
[speaker002:] yeah on the other hand most people don't use rapid transit because it's so inconvenient
[speaker001:] hm yeah but only because we got used to uh single person single car driving a lot of people don't even like to carpool
[speaker002:] um-hum um-hum
[speaker001:] but we could do that that'll help
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] pollution air pollution the uh United States and Canada are I guess is is uh it going into uh some types of agreements to limit uh what's being given out by power plants
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] I guess Canada's quite concerned that we're sending a lot of our stuff up there
[speaker002:] yeah sure
[speaker001:] so that's helping
[speaker002:] well what do you think about like a device a meter on right on a tailpipe and you paid a tax based on how much you polluted
[speaker001:] now that's an idea don't say that too loud though because uh every city and town will have a meter on your tailpipe generate generate revenue
[speaker002:] well it just means that if you don't pollute right or you pollute very little you don't have to pay any tax or you just buy one of these things and it it um I mean you could you could probably devise them so that it slowly closed off your tail pipe and uh the less you pollute the longer the device lasts and if you pollute a lot then it closed off your tailpipe and you couldn't start your car anymore
[speaker001:] that's a that's an interesting concept is that your idea
[speaker002:] yeah but uh you know it's uh I guess the difficulty would be to somebody could obviously just take it right off the tailpipe again so you'd probably have to build it right into the muffler or something
[speaker001:] well I was gonna to say right you could put it in you could you could it could be installed like a catalytic converter I mean I guess you could take those off too but
[speaker002:] right you could take catalytic but mufflers would be a little more obvious if you took that off
[speaker001:] yeah if you can take a muffler off and only replace well not unless it was built into every muffler
[speaker002:] right
[speaker001:] and that's
[speaker002:] but if you were just talking about something which was more or less universal that uh buses and any kind of vehicle had to pay a pollution tax um this would penalize the heavy polluters and not penalize the light polluters
[speaker001:] that's a that's quite a concept you should uh pursue that I think or patent it you know
[speaker002:] yeah patent it that's a good idea
[speaker001:] if you could come up with a device that's the thing
[speaker002:] right
[speaker001:] but it shouldn't be too hard to do something like that but that's a that's a thought no you're right and that will solve uh a lot of problems I don't know if you uh
[speaker002:] um-hum um-hum
[speaker001:] if you approached the automobile industry if they would be too keen on installing something like that
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] uh but you know a proposal to uh uh I guess the proper authorities well you might uh generate some
[speaker002:] um-hum yeah the automobile regulatory agencies or something
[speaker001:] yeah you might generate some interest in it but that's a that's a good idea other than that I'm not sure what what individuals can do other than like I said get involved through a group or an organization
[speaker002:] um-hum

[speaker001:] Okay.
[speaker002:] All right, well d-, d-, do you play any musical instruments or,
[speaker001:] No, I don't play any. I used to.
[speaker002:] Oh well,
[speaker001:] I think everybody took piano lessons so,
[speaker002:] Everybody, sure. I, I started when I was in, uh, third grade,
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] and I've, I still play the piano as of today.
[speaker001:] Do you?
[speaker002:] Yes, I do.
[speaker001:] I started, I think I was in the fifth grade and I played it for maybe three months [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] But, then, again, I was also in, uh, the marching band. I played the drums, I played the clarinet, I played the trumpet.
[speaker001:] Wow [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Uh, you know, whatever and so I,
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] I still sing, and I sing in the choir today so,
[speaker001:] All right [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] I en-, I enjoy the music, it gives me an out.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] It always sounds like, for my playing the piano when I was depressed and didn't have anything else to do and there was no one to play with I could always go play with the piano, you know.
[speaker001:] True [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] So, how long did you play?
[speaker001:] Only for about three months.
[speaker002:] Three months.
[speaker001:] Yeah, me and my brother both took the classes and we got pretty bored quick [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] I was going to say, y-, y-, you got as far as the, uh, chop sticks, huh.
[speaker001:] Um, well, I could play, uh, the wood chuck song.
[speaker002:] Oh, the wood chuck song [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] And I still can to this date.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] And your mother's saying, and although, the money that we spent for those piano lessons
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Yeah.
[speaker002:] this is all we got was the wood chuck song [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Yep, they went out and bought us a piano and for three months [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Oh, bless your heart.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Did you ever, did you ever just bang on it or do anything with it at all.
[speaker001:] Oh, yeah, any time I got bored [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Oh, okay, but I mean, can you play anything on it, other than wood chuck song?
[speaker001:] No.
[speaker002:] No.
[speaker001:] And Jaws, but I think everybody can.
[speaker002:] Okay.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] I c-, I, I can still read music if I'm lucky because I, if I work real hard I can still barely read the music, but, see, I played the piano
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] from the third grade all the way through high school, so
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] I played chic-, uh, concertos and other stuff but,
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] I got to the point where I wasn't really reading music, I was memorizing music, so because of that, I can't read music as well as I used to, but
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] anyway, but I enjoy it, though. I find it to be a good out and I still enjoy the marching band and I still enjoy, uh, singing in the choir so,
[speaker001:] Do you sing at choir at your church?
[speaker002:] Yes, I do.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] Yes, I do. That's, in fact, that's about the only musical thing that I still do
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] is sing in the choir.
[speaker001:] I tried out for choir when I was, think, in the seventh grade and they wouldn't let me in.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] So,
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] I never tried again.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] Well,
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] I sing in the choir, I do know if they want me to or not, but at least I do sing in it [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Yeah,
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] That's pretty good.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Well,
[speaker001:] I never really learned the music or anything. I never learned, I got right to where I was figuring out where all the keys were on the piano and that's about when I quit.
[speaker002:] I was at, I actually went to the University of Texas at one time thinking that I would, c-, be a musician. I wanted to be a high school band director.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] But after one semester of that, I said n-, no,
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] no, this isn't for me. enjoy it, but not for profession, no.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] And besides that I kind of learned I wasn't really that good [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] I gave up.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] Course, my mom thought I was, but, uh, you know,
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Of course, parents always do.
[speaker002:] Oh, yeah, so,
[speaker001:] They're nice that way.
[speaker002:] Yes.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Well, what else can we d-, uh, talk about, uh,
[speaker001:] Uh, well, I don't, d-, so you listen to kind of church music, gospel?
[speaker002:] No, no, I, I listen to K V I L.
[speaker001:] Oh, yeah?
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] So I listen to the radio, I like the pop music.
[speaker001:] Oh, yeah.
[speaker002:] I like people like Neil Diamond and [LAUGHTER] all, all the folks that you're not supposed to like, but that's who I go for [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Oh, yeah, the jeezer music as I call it.
[speaker002:] Oh, the jeezer music.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] Oh, okay, well,
[speaker001:] My boss listens to that. We listen to ninety-seven point nine and that's his station, so I call it the jeezer music.
[speaker002:] Okay, now what d-, kind of music do you listen to?
[speaker001:] Well, I listen to like ninety-seven point one, you know, more,
[speaker002:] What d-, what is that?
[speaker001:] It's more, uh, [breathing] I don't know how to explain it, kind of pop, you know, rock.
[speaker002:] Rock.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] Hard rock?
[speaker001:] Well, not hard [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Not hard rock.
[speaker001:] Just kind of,
[speaker002:] Not like the eagle.
[speaker001:] Huh?
[speaker002:] Is that the eagle?
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] Okay, I know, I know what the eagle is.
[speaker001:] It's not too hard, it's,
[speaker002:] That's not too hard.
[speaker001:] You know. But it's not enough to put you to sleep [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] True, true.
[speaker001:] Which some of the songs on K V I L can.
[speaker002:] Well, course, see, I listen to K V I L for the contests. I mean [LAUGHTER],
[speaker001:] Oh, yeah, got the bumper sticker, too?
[speaker002:] Oh, yes, oh, yes.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] You can't drive a car without bumper sticker and you know they're going to call you up.
[speaker001:] Someday.
[speaker002:] Yeah [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Well, listen, I've enjoyed talking. I, I'm sure that the switchboard will probably give us that sign off message very shortly anyway.
[speaker001:] Okay.
[speaker002:] I appreciate it.
[speaker001:] Okay.
[speaker002:] Catch you later.
[speaker001:] Bye-bye.
[speaker002:] Bye-bye.

[speaker001:] so how do you feel about capital punishment
[speaker002:] well I I'm not really certain how I uh I I'm not certain that it does does a lot of good I mean that it ends up ends up effectively uh uh uh avoiding a lot of the crimes that that have capital punishment
[speaker001:] right you don't think
[speaker002:] penalties yet on the other hand uh I don't know I mean there's things that seems like it's it's it's the right thing to do now you know I mean somebody as serial serial serial killer or somebody goes in and machine guns you know fifty fifty children in a school yard you kind of I don't know what about yourself
[speaker001:] I uh um I have a the same dilemma I think um it's it's you know it seems right sometimes and then other times you don't know um
[speaker002:] uh-huh I mean people like I it's been shown I mean like the Arab societies and stuff end up uh having effective effective effective punishments and and they're they're extremely severe um I you know I think to a certain degree the reason that it it doesn't serve as a deterrent uh may be because you you you you never know if it's gonna be applied applied right unlike unlike uh like in in Arab societies if you got get caught stealing they chop off your hand and and you walk around the rest of your life with one hand and then everybody knows exactly what what for right
[speaker001:] right
[speaker002:] um
[speaker001:] right
[speaker002:] and you know and here with our court system and and ways of sort of screwing it around and stuff you can you can kind of always count on the fact you know or or there's a good chance you're gonna get off and so
[speaker001:] um-hum and also it doesn't seem like it does them any harm I mean sure their life is taken but they'd spend the rest of their life in jail anyway so I think sometimes they'd prefer just to
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] get it over with so it's more of the easy way out than
[speaker002:] yeah some people
[speaker001:] making them pay for the consequences for the
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] you know what they've done
[speaker002:] except that you know I mean the the average cost to society to society of having somebody in jail for all their life is is extremely high I mean something I I was amazed at a uh per year it's something like twenty thousand dollars per inmate per year
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] to keep people in jail uh you know I mean that's sort of a uh sort of a crass perspective I mean on the usage of capital punishment but on the other hand uh um
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] you know I don't I don't know if if it's a crime that's that's that serious that they're really never gonna be out of jail um
[speaker001:] right but then again also you can't bring back lives that have been taken anyway so um it's it doesn't it seems by that by I don't know doesn't ever really pay um
[speaker002:] oh I know I mean you can't it doesn't taking taking one more life doesn't doesn't doesn't get replace you know get things back the way they were right yeah I don't know I I don't know I really don't know uh I'm in Texas
[speaker001:] yeah right it doesn't bring back every what state are you in oh really in Dallas
[speaker002:] where where no I'm in Austin
[speaker001:] oh really
[speaker002:] and where are you where are you calling from
[speaker001:] um right now I'm in Utah but I'm from Plano Texas
[speaker002:] oh I see uh-huh
[speaker001:] so um
[speaker002:] yeah so you
[speaker001:] um what are the laws like in Texas it's
[speaker002:] it is Texas is has has is one of the one of the states well I guess there's more and more states that are that are going back to capital punishment um Texas has had it for a while it's one of the quicker it once it was uh it was reallowed I think it was outlawed for a while by the by the supreme court I mean or or the interpretation of the constitution and it seems like everybody stopped and then and then once they sort of reallowed it Texas was one of the first to uh to actually uh implement it again
[speaker001:] oh really
[speaker002:] they do it by uh by lethal do it by lethal injection so you know
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] I'm originally from Kansas and in Kansas also uh they they almost immediately put back capital punishment and uh there they do it by hanging
[speaker001:] wow
[speaker002:] still right they have I still remember the the the movie uh In Cold Blood I don't know if you've ever I I I'm sure you're familiar with it but have you seen the movie
[speaker001:] I haven't no
[speaker002:] yeah the way
[speaker001:] and they do it that way
[speaker002:] yeah well they they show it not not I mean the the movie was made in like nineteen sixty two or something like that and so it's uh it's not particularly graphic but on the other hand it's
[speaker001:] huh
[speaker002:] it's fairly impressive to watch them you know walk into the room with gallows it's a kind of a barn like structure
[speaker001:] wow yeah I think that they're I think that capital punishment is is is um in tact in Utah also I'm not really familiar with
[speaker002:] is that right are you there in school yeah uh-huh yeah
[speaker001:] yeah I am so but I think that they do well well long time ago I can I remember my dad was telling me this I think that um they do it by like a bunch of men have guns and one of them has the real gun in it so they don't know who killed
[speaker002:] uh-huh has has a yeah has has a real bullet and the rest of them have blanks
[speaker001:] right
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] I think
[speaker002:] yeah I I certainly wouldn't want to be the executioner I know that I've always said that if I if I had to kill and clean and my own my own meat I think I'd become a vegetarian
[speaker001:] yeah I know I know
[speaker002:] as as long as you're sort of safely removed from it it seems seems not so not so bad I guess but

[speaker001:] do you are you on a regular regular exercise program right now
[speaker002:] yes and I hate it how about you
[speaker001:] oh well I'm kind of off and on
[speaker002:] off and on well I guess I've been kind of off and on I've um
[speaker001:] right now I'm kind of off
[speaker002:] had some health problems that have led me to uh stay more on than off
[speaker001:] okay what type of exercise do you do
[speaker002:] uh I do walking on the treadmill and then I do low impact aerobics
[speaker001:] okay I guess you don't enjoy that very much
[speaker002:] not not really
[speaker001:] you find that uh to be boring
[speaker002:] yeah yeah and time consuming I mean it's it's not just the exercise that's boring and time consuming it's uh you know afterwards you know then you have to take a shower and get cleaned up you know
[speaker001:] yeah well I'm trying to get back in shape for softball this spring
[speaker002:] I know you go through this this is something you go through like every year
[speaker001:] but I yeah I haven't decided whether you're whether I wanna play yet or not I just bought myself a solo flex machine I don't know if you've seen those advertised on TV
[speaker002:] hum-um
[speaker001:] it's one of those uh universal type machines exercise machine but I haven't really sat down and used it much yet so it's collecting dust right now
[speaker002:] yeah a lot of things do that I have a negative I had an exercise bike I used to have one and finally got rid of it because I never used it but I do use my treadmill
[speaker001:] I used to jog somewhat uh-huh well that's good yeah my parents have a treadmill it's when I go visit them uh I'll get on that thing every now and then
[speaker002:] yeah it's nice because when the weather's bad you can't you don't have any excuse
[speaker001:] um-hum no I just got the bicycle out today and it was real nice outside had to get out to do something
[speaker002:] yeah I can't ride a bike so
[speaker001:] I been sitting in here uh in the house all weekend with a cold so I thought I'd better uh better get outside and do something and not waste the day
[speaker002:] oh yeah it's too nice been too nice of a weekend
[speaker001:] but uh yeah I need to start jogging again I've always found that to be uh uh really one of the best forms of exercise but it's terribly boring and so I really don't ever keep a a program up consistently
[speaker002:] uh you had any injuries from jogging
[speaker001:] no I never have well I don't jog enough I think to develop any injuries I usually only go about a mile or two
[speaker002:] I guess what worries me about jogging is that I hear that it's very hard on your body and and that you know you can end up getting hurt worse
[speaker001:] yeah it's it's tough on the joints if you jog on concrete or on asphalt supposed to be much better if you find uh grass or or uh dirt to jog on
[speaker002:] um-hum yeah that's not quite so so easy yeah yeah
[speaker001:] have to have the right type of uh shoes too that's very important
[speaker002:] I found that true especially for walking on toes or fronts
[speaker001:] but yeah I don't have to buy jogging shoes all too often mine don't get very much use
[speaker002:] well I guess mine breakdown about they say about every six months
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] so
[speaker001:] ah I usually enjoy the exercise I do but uh like I said I'm just not very consistent about maintaining a a program so I'll I'll bicycle I get into that for for a little while and maybe go out and uh on a consistent basis every couple a days and ride a bike for awhile but then I'll get tired of doing that and maybe start jogging again and go out three or four nights a week but uh that gets old too in a very short order I'm I'm hoping that this uh solo flex will uh
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] uh change things a little bit I really need to get on a regular type of program and use that thing on a consistent basis
[speaker002:] yeah well don't let it collect dust you least exercise while dusting it off
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] well
[speaker001:] so maybe if I can get interested in playing softball again this spring I can uh start some type of uh regular program
[speaker002:] yeah that that'll be good
[speaker001:] I've always found that that when you write things down and set goals it's a lot easier to keep uh keep something going
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] uh when I was in high school we had a choice of uh taking uh physical education courses on exercise and uh one of those involved a six week session on a universal machine lifting weights and uh working out like that
[speaker002:] oh
[speaker001:] and that was very helpful and we kept charts of our progress and uh consistently uh increased the amount of resistance so you could see how much you improved over the weeks
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] I found that to be uh very helpful
[speaker002:] so are you gonna do that
[speaker001:] uh I need to I haven't started yet but it's a thought
[speaker002:] well that sounds like something good to do then
[speaker001:] sounds like something I should do
[speaker002:] yeah nice way to start off the spring
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] get back in shape
[speaker001:] how often do you uh uh go out each week on your walking
[speaker002:] well I do I switch every other day one day I walk and one day I do the aerobics
[speaker001:] okay how far about how far do you go walking
[speaker002:] well I'm trying build up my tolerance now I just surgery um less than two months ago and right now I'm just a little over about a mile and a half but I try try to workup to three miles
[speaker001:] okay yeah that's good well they say that walking is just as good if not better than jogging
[speaker002:] yeah it takes it's just that it takes longer to get the same effect yeah but
[speaker001:] it sure well if you keep up a a consistent pace just to keep the heart rate going uh
[speaker002:] my walkman broke so I'm upset now I just have to turn the stereo up real loud
[speaker001:] yeah  yeah but it's a lot less stressful on the joints than jogging is
[speaker002:] yeah it is and it this has an you know my treadmill has an incline and you know you can get a really good workout on it
[speaker001:] um-hum do you go to an aerobics class or do you watch on TV
[speaker002:] no I I just do it on TV I have a cassette
[speaker001:] okay which uh shows do you watch on TV
[speaker002:] um it's just a it's a tape I use tapes
[speaker001:] oh okay okay like a Kathy Smith workout or Jane Fonda
[speaker002:] Richard or Richard Simmons Sweating to the Oldies
[speaker001:] okay right I will every every now and then I'll watch uh ESPN I I get cable on TV and they have uh a couple of shows called Basic Training and um what is the other o ne called
[speaker002:] uh-huh there was one guy I used to watch on ESPN I don't know if he's still on it anymore or not I don't I don't know if I get ESPN or not
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] but um well yeah I used to watch one watch one on the air but that was back
[speaker001:] Bodies In Motion that's that's the name of the one I was thinking of
[speaker002:] that was yeah
[speaker001:] with Gil Janklowicz
[speaker002:] yeah yeah I watched that cause he was cute
[speaker001:] yeah well he's he's he he he's not bad and his assistants usually aren't either
[speaker002:] but uh
[speaker001:] they're always in in in Hawaii someplace on on the on the beach
[speaker002:] yeah yeah but then that was back when um you know the high impact and
[speaker001:] yeah well they they do low impact stuff now they're on everyday
[speaker002:] do they are they yeah okay they're so they're still he's still doing it then huh oh I'll have to tune in
[speaker001:] yeah every morning it's on ESPN uh at what time I can't remember what time it's uh well I can't remember offhand what time
[speaker002:] I'll have to check it check check it back up then but the thing is is everybody always looks so good on there show least on some of the other ones not everybody has a picture perfect body
[speaker001:] they have that show on yeah every now and then um-hum well I found that they they have just a much better program than the other shows that are on TV
[speaker002:] I haven't watched any other ones on TV um just on some of the tapes so
[speaker001:] they're on weekdays at eleven o'clock everyday Monday through Friday
[speaker002:] I'll have to okay thanks
[speaker001:] case you're interested in that I actually taped a few of the sessions that they had on there but uh I haven't done so much as uh watch the tape that I made
[speaker002:] now that's a thought well that's a thought I hadn't thought about doing that
[speaker001:] so I'm kind of bad about that myself
[speaker002:] well they're gonna beep us pretty soon
[speaker001:] okay well I sure enjoyed talking to you about uh exercise and fitness
[speaker002:] uh-huh nice talking to you okay thanks talk to you later bye
[speaker001:] so all right good night bye

[speaker001:] Okay, you want to tell me first how you feel about
[speaker002:] Well
[speaker001:] the proposal,
[speaker002:] um, I, I just think the way that things are going that, um, it would be good for young people to go ahead and have, um, dedicate themselves to at least something.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] I know, like the Mormon religion, you know, they require two years of service, uh, missionary service
[speaker001:] The boys
[speaker002:] right, the boys
[speaker001:] not the girls, the boys.
[speaker002:] yeah, and, um, so, but I think it would be good for all young people
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] you know, to be able to, to do something like that
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] um, so that, um, you know, I don't know, I just feel it would be good for them to do that.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh. I, I thought it would be good, too, but I did not think it would be good that they all do something like the Peace Corps
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] because not all young people would have, uh, what it takes to go like that
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] because I think it takes a certain person to, to be able to do something like that, but there's a lot of other public service things
[speaker002:] Oh, sure.
[speaker001:] that could be done.
[speaker002:] Oh, yeah, and, and even, even in our home towns there's a lot of
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] um, public service things that they could do
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] uh, you know, drug rehabilitation and
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] and alcohol and, and just, uh, helping old people, and, um, uh, you know, helping cripple, just helping somebody else
[speaker001:] Yes, yeah.
[speaker002:] and I think that art of giving is something that, um, we don't have very much any more.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh. Yeah, I think it would be that. When they say this proposal, is this something that they're just suggesting, or are they actually, why, why, why did they call it a proposal, that,
[speaker002:] Oh, I think they just gave it a title
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] but is this not something that's, um, in legislation or
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] in work some
[speaker001:] That's what I wondered.
[speaker002:] yeah, no, no, it's not, it's just a, just a topic,
[speaker001:] It'd be good character builder.
[speaker002:] I think so, too. I think so, too. Um, because there's so many, um, kids who have, uh, you know, so much money and so much free time and, uh, nothing to do, um, and nothing to give their time to.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Um, they don't even have a direction to give their, their time to, so I think
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] it would be really good for people to, um, to be able to give their time in, in, uh, some kind of public service, uh, even in our government, you know, as, uh, aids to, uh, you know, Congress, uh, people
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] so, um, yeah, it would be, it'd be really good
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] I think.
[speaker001:] Well, people that are, um, have received sentences in jail, they have, uh, some of them are going out and doing, uh, they have to go out and do public service
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] activities
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] which to me is, is good.
[speaker002:] Oh, yeah, oh yeah, I agree with you. This is something that, um, like you say, is it's character building
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] um, you know, learning how to, to give to others, and being less selfish and,
[speaker001:] Well, I think sometimes it gives you a better picture of what some of the other people live like, you know, what
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] what some of the other parts of the world are like or
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] even other parts of the neighborhood
[speaker002:] Uh-huh, uh-huh, yeah.
[speaker001:] some of the people, how they live or,
[speaker002:] Oh, I agree with you, I agree with you, and I think, uh, young people are so, um, uh, focused just on themselves and their activities, and whose going out with whom, et cetera
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] that, uh, you know, to get a taste of what the real world is actually about
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] doing that public service would be great.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Yeah, because that's one thing that's hard, with young people, you, you can't tell them how things are
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] they have to see for themselves
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] now of course this might be after they've gone through their teen years, I don't know what their thought is on what age that this should be done.
[speaker002:] Oh, yeah, I would think so, like right after, um, high school
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] you know, even if it was the, the, their, um, that summer right after high school
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] you know, three months,
[speaker001:] Of course they've already gone through the period of time where they need more direction
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] you know, they, their teenage years and that they really sometimes need a little better direction to go
[speaker002:] Uh-huh, uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and something, course now Peace Corps, that couldn't be done of course, until they were done with school
[speaker002:] Right, right,
[speaker001:] so, *should this be it's own slash unit?
[speaker002:] You know, something that out, that was outside of, uh, outside of school
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] yeah, but, yeah, you know, right, right after you graduate from, um, high school, because a lot of people are just, um, uh, Well gee whiz, what do I do now
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] if they're not focused on going to college, and, uh, you know, having that, that, uh, gung ho plan
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] uh, that's, you know, setting their life goals.
[speaker001:] Kind of an in-between
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] time.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh, yeah, so to me, see that would be the, the, uh, the greatest time for, um, you know, teenagers to, to do that, would be right after they graduated from high school.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] But as for its being required [LAUGHTER]
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] you know, we're just not, we're not based on, on that, uh
[speaker001:] Huh-uh.
[speaker002:] type of a system. Um.
[speaker001:] No, and like I said, not, now all young people should be able to do something, but
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] not all certainly would be geared to, even the, the Mormon boys that go out, not all of them go, I mean
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] it's disaster if they don't go, but
[speaker002:] Oh, right.
[speaker001:] but some of them are not, they're just not made to do that type of thing
[speaker002:] Uh-huh, uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and they just aren't able to do it.
[speaker002:] Yeah, yeah, so, um, yeah, it'd be good but like I said, requiring it would be, uh,

[speaker001:] Well, basically, uh, did you want to go first, then?
[speaker002:] Uh, well, I can. I, I don't own my home.
[speaker001:] Okay, right.
[speaker002:] Uh, [LAUGHTER] I mean I, I live in a nice area and I rent my home and
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] uh, we aren't sure we're going to buy a house yet because we don't know if we're going to be staying here.
[speaker001:] Sure, uh-huh.
[speaker002:] In, uh, Texas, so,
[speaker001:] Yeah. I think as far as, like, our home, it's, uh, in a small residential area. We're out of the cities quite a ways, so it's kind of more of a country setting and, uh, [baby crying] it's just a typical, uh, three bedroom type of home. It's, it's nothing, you know, [baby crying] elaborate where it has, uh, this or this or, you know. It's, it's
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] just a typical home with, uh, three bedrooms, uh, two story type home. Uh, and I think as far as if it's, for put it into standards of, uh, what other homes are around here, it would be just about fitting right into the middle part of where the homes are. Uh, there's a river across from us which has more elaborate homes and yet there's, where we can view the river from that distance, there's still homes within our area that are, you know, pretty typical of what our home is, so
[speaker002:] Uh-huh
[speaker001:] it's, uh, pretty much that, uh, type of, uh, home so,
[speaker002:] Yeah. Well, our ho-,
[speaker001:] Uh,
[speaker002:] our house, we, we're renting it from an individual who bought it and he lives in Korea.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh, oh, really?
[speaker002:] And, uh, [baby crying] he's recently moved here and he's owns eight or nine properties
[speaker001:] Sure.
[speaker002:] uh, near here
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] and, uh, so,
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] But the houses around here, there's five, five houses on my street for sale right now.
[speaker001:] Oh, yeah, yeah.
[speaker002:] Which is just, uh, in trouble
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] [Breathing] to me. And they're not very expensive either. It just seems like, we have a three bedroom house. Ours is one level only.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Uh, but we,
[speaker001:] So it's the rambler style.
[speaker002:] Yeah, we have two, two living areas and a dining room and a big kitchen and,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] The bedrooms are a little bit small except the master bedroom's a little bigger.
[speaker001:] Yeah, yeah.
[speaker002:] So,
[speaker001:] It's kind of like what ours is. Uh, one of our bedrooms is really small and we've made that into a den because we only have one child, so that was our best way of going with, uh, the small bedrooms because they are making bedrooms smaller and smaller. It seems like they get incredibly small [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Uh, but, uh, anyway, but, [lipsmack] okay. So that sounds great, and, uh, I don't know if we need to talk any more or whatever.
[speaker002:] Have you d-, have you done this before?
[speaker001:] The T I?
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Uh, yes, uh, about three times before.
[speaker002:] Oh, have you?
[speaker001:] I'm fairly new to it, but [breathing] it seems to be going okay.
[speaker002:] Yeah. Are you in Texas?
[speaker001:] No, huh-uh.
[speaker002:] No, yeah,
[speaker001:] No, I'm out of state. I'm in Wisconsin, so,
[speaker002:] Oh, really?
[speaker001:] Yeah, yeah.
[speaker002:] Oh.
[speaker001:] So it's,
[speaker002:] Sounds interesting.
[speaker001:] [Breathing] Uh, other than that, sure, yeah. Is this your first time?
[speaker002:] No, huh-uh. I've, well, I've gotten several calls.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Uh, but, uh,
[speaker001:] I'm always the one that initiates the calls because I kind of like it because it's like I can get it done with [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] I don't have to wait until somebody calls me even though I have a feeling what's going to happen is I'll probably get tons of calls, you know, so, sooner or later.
[speaker002:] Yeah, yeah, well, they've, I've talked to some people from Cleveland and I did talk to someone
[speaker001:] Uh-,
[speaker002:] else who lives here
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] in the same city I do, so
[speaker001:] Yeah, yeah.
[speaker002:] that was kind of interesting [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Yeah, sure.
[speaker002:] They're, they're sure getting their people out, so, well
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] it was nice to talk to you, anyway and,
[speaker001:] Okay, well, you take it easy, Gail.
[speaker002:] Okay, thanks.
[speaker001:] Bye, now.
[speaker002:] Bye-bye.

[speaker001:] Not very good [LAUGHTER] it's not been a good day [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] I went,
[speaker001:] [Noise] [TV].
[speaker002:] [Cough] I turned mine in about twelve hours early at noon.
[speaker001:] I don't know. I finished mine up about eleven and left it here with Carolyn so I hope she's turned it in.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] Are you eating?
[speaker001:] Uh, I ju-, [throat clearing] go ahead, I'll stop eating. I just barely got
[speaker002:] No it's,
[speaker001:] home from the university.
[speaker002:] Say what?
[speaker001:] I just barely got home from the university.
[speaker002:] [Throat clearing] Tell you what we can do is, uh, I can punch the, uh, one,
[speaker001:] [Noise].
[speaker002:] and then w-, after five minutes when the, uh, uh, voice comes on, we can talk all night if we want [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Okay, go ahead, fire away.
[speaker002:] [Tone]. Uh, I love the irony of, uh, talking about this subject on April the,
[speaker001:] [Talking].
[speaker002:] fifteenth [sniffing]. But, uh, I'm afraid I'm, I'm probably in the minority. I, I actually don't think that we, uh, pay too much in this country. Uh
[speaker001:] I agree with you [TV].
[speaker002:] uh, particularly, uh, in this part of the country w-, uh, I guess I do have a, a bone to pick with, uh, uh, the way taxes are distributed [sniffing]. Uh, I just finished fuming at the fact that we pay an eight and a half percent sales tax and no income tax when the income tax could have been deducted from the federal form [sniffing]
[speaker001:] Huh.
[speaker002:] and the sales tax can't. I think that's regressive and, uh, uh, it's kind of dumb.
[speaker001:] I hate the eight and a half percent sales tax. But, on the other hand, I don't mind that it's only on, you know, things that aren't like [throat clearing] groceries and that, it's not on that.
[speaker002:] Well, I mean, nobody taxes groceries.
[speaker001:] Oh, yeah, they do.
[speaker002:] Where?
[speaker001:] In Arizona.
[speaker002:] Is that right?
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] [Throat clearing].
[speaker001:] But we have a pretty low income ta-, I mean pretty low tax rate here. Oh, I think the, the sales tax, they just got to do something about it.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] But that's the politicalness of trying to not create any new taxes.
[speaker002:] Right [throat clearing]. But I guess when I hear, when I see the comparison between the United States and, uh, any other western country, uh, their, their rates are like, uh, forty-one, forty-two and ours are like thirty-six, thirty-seven, you know, if you compute as a percentage of total income, all taxes lumped together, we actually do pretty well. T-, th-, there's no other country that's, that is taxed as low as we are.
[speaker001:] Well and I still think that, having lived in Europe for awhile, you know, [throat clearing] difference in living conditions
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] are certainly well worth, uh, what we pay for it.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh. I'm, I'm not sure I understand what you mean.
[speaker001:] Well, I mean, I think, I was in Germany, you know, for several years
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] and [throat clearing] I'd a lot rather pay taxes here and have what we have, then have to live there.
[speaker002:] [Throat clearing] Oh, you mean, lowest end of living in spite of lower, higher taxes. Yeah.
[speaker001:] Higher taxes. Yeah.
[speaker002:] I suppose that's true, yeah. Uh, probably m-, less so now than it was ten years ago or whatever but,
[speaker001:] Still's that way to some extent.
[speaker002:] [Throat clearing] Yeah.
[speaker001:] [Throat clearing] I think the other problem is, you know, it, it's easy to complain about taxes because there's something you, theoretically, can do something about.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] But I look, for example, and you're not quite in the same situation but like school taxes for me
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] biggest bargain in the world. I wish I didn't have to pay [throat clearing] any more fo-, to my physicians in a year
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] than I had to pay for all of my school taxes.
[speaker002:] Yeah. Yeah, since, uh, [inhaling] I send my kids to parochial school, that.
[speaker001:] Yeah, that, that's probably a little tougher on you [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] It's not, it's not quite the bargain that.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] [Cough] [Throat clearing] But, I mean, I pay them gladly. That's a decision, I think it's a dumb decision on our part because countries like Canada and England and Germany do perfectly well with a, uh, two tract system in which religious schools coexist with secular schools f-, with the same tax money. But, uh, I mean, that's, that's the way Americans want to interpret it, I guess that's all right [swallowing]. But, yeah. I,
[speaker001:] [Sniffing].
[speaker002:] and if I were, uh, when I was single and again when I'm retired,
[speaker001:] [Tapping].
[speaker002:] I will not mind paying, uh, what it takes to keep the schools good. That's always been a high priority [throat clearing].
[speaker001:] [Tapping] No, I think that's just you though.
[speaker002:] [Throat clearing] I do, yeah, that's true. I think in places,
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] I think in places like California, people are beginning to find that in, in areas that are fairly well off, if you add the, uh, uh, people of various sexual persuasions and those who never intend to marry and those who are retired and those are, uh, just looking for fun, th- people with families turn out to be such a small minority that they can't get a tax bill passed no matter what happens.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] And, uh, [throat clearing],
[speaker001:] [Throat clearing].
[speaker002:] there are big sections of the country where people with children of school age are such a small minority that they can't get anything done. That seems a, a, like a cultural lapse. I mean, people always used to be willing to ante up for the schools. They,
[speaker001:] Of course, I think with the graying of America, we're going to see that problem in lots of places.
[speaker002:] Right. Yeah. People would rather, uh, increase the fire department and cut down the schools [LAUGHTER] because it means more to them. But I think it's sad
[speaker001:] Or build roads.
[speaker002:] selfish and shortsighted. Yeah.
[speaker001:] [Throat clearing] [NOISE].
[speaker002:] Well,

[speaker001:] okay how do you keep up with current events
[speaker002:] um well actually usually um in the mornings I am getting ready to either go to work um usually catch the news in the morning
[speaker001:] yeah what what channel do you watch or what station
[speaker002:] uh NBC
[speaker001:] that's the one I watch I usually keep up with TV I don't I am a student so I really don't have much time to like read the newspapers and stuff
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] so I get a lot of stuff through the grapevine which is really isn't
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] too great sometimes
[speaker002:] yeah I usually tend to just you know rely on you know TV um again you know just through the grapevine just just to know like yeah what what today's stories are and I usually like go out an buy a newspaper if you know I'm interested in any particular one
[speaker001:] yeah the radio doesn't really have much news sometimes the stations I listen to are just mainly music
[speaker002:] yeah I think you you pretty much have to listen to all news station to get any news at all
[speaker001:] yeah do you think that TV is um pretty accurate I mean sometimes do you think it gets pretty commercialized or
[speaker002:] well what I really don't like about TV especially local news as compared to like national news is just um it seems it seems like everything is very spoon feed and you know it's it's more like the news shows is now is is now you know an entertainment show like a sitcom
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] or like the news because they would always have like the wonderful investigative reports you know is is you're kids bus driver smoking crack on the way to school you know
[speaker001:] yeah it's they mainly go with like popular topics just not like basic news
[speaker002:] um-hum yeah also also I have the observation with um with the press is that like any any stories that I had any first hand knowledge of that I see in the press you know which only happened like ten times in my life
[speaker001:] huh
[speaker002:] you know first thing you know for anything of you know or anything that actually had had more than just a blurb about it that the press has managed to just mess up some aspect of the story it's something wrong
[speaker001:] yeah going they're looks like they're going more for ratings than for
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] you know actual news I think you know the probably the best source of just plain journalism would be newspapers
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] they typically have a better I am from a small town too here in Texas
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] and so that then like local news is really who grew the biggest tomato and
[speaker002:] yeah the farm report
[speaker001:] yeah farm report and oil reports that's pretty pretty sad or who killed who
[speaker002:] um-hum yeah also I have um founded like in newspapers probably aren't as bad as television but I just you know read the story and just found it so incredibly watered down and
[speaker001:] yeah well in um in Dallas um I don't know if you heard about the killing where the guy drove into Luby's and the story was uh
[speaker002:] was that like he started shooting people people in this cafeteria or something
[speaker001:] yeah and the news covered it
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] right you know hours after it happened and they were taping people who were crying who
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] had everything and then like three days later this local news station was using as a as their promo
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] to promote themselves I just thought that was really
[speaker002:] oh yeah I have seen that happen lots of times you know
[speaker001:] that's kind of cold
[speaker002:] you know Channel X gives you the best coverage you know we were on the scene with our team players you know
[speaker001:] yeah and it was just they were showing like these dead people and they were showing people crying I mean just taking advantage of you know
[speaker002:] um-hum uh-huh uh-huh
[speaker001:] it real personal moment
[speaker002:] they are trying to get the you know most emotional response for
[speaker001:] yeah it didn't seem like there was much coverage of the story but just the play on people's emotions it's just gotten so I mean somewhere there's it's lost a lot of the quality that they use to have like in Walter Cronkite days you know
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] and everything
[speaker002:] yeah I have you know I've pretty much stopped watching local news totally you know
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] um you know even the national news I just find it to be you know
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] very watered down very
[speaker001:] yeah what did you think of the coverage of the war
[speaker002:] um I found I found it very one sided
[speaker001:] did you
[speaker002:] um you know I mean it just it just seemed to lack any sort of debate
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] um you know you know not saying that we should that we that we definitely should have been there or shouldn't have been there but it just seemed like you know
[speaker001:] they kept just showing you know how great we were doing and it never really showed what actually
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] the damage that really happened that's
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] a lot of times like the news coverage showed all the you know the guys who didn't get hurt coming home and all the big parties and they kind of you know
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] if they were going to show that why didn't they show the guys who you know
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] got really hurt and everything and
[speaker002:] yeah and I really think that you know in the in the involvement that the press states you know that the the military basically sets the press

[speaker001:] Well a lot of women are knowl-, as knowledge about football as I am.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Can I guess your favorite team, if you had one, might be the Steelers.
[speaker002:] Yes, uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Well, I can understand that. I, you know, I kind of like the Cowboys, too.
[speaker002:] Do you?
[speaker001:] They've had some great games in the past.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh, I, I always enjoy watching the stal-, the, Dallas and Pittsburgh together.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh, me too.
[speaker002:] You know.
[speaker001:] It wasn't nearly as much fun when Bradshaw was playing for you guys, I'll tell you.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] He lives in the Dallas area now, as a matter of fact.
[speaker002:] Does he really?
[speaker001:] Well, actually, it's probably closer to Fort Worth, but it's, it's in the same area. He bought, uh, bought a big horse farm out in a little town called Roanoke, Texas.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] But he pops up on the Dallas scene quite often.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] As a matter of fact, there was some talk about trying to get him involved with the team management in some sort of a coaching job.
[speaker002:] Oh, wo-, I wonder if he'd ever do that.
[speaker001:] I don't know, he'd be good at it. He's such a motivator, he,
[speaker002:] Yes.
[speaker001:] primarily, you know, with the quarterbacks.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] That would be his specialty. I wished, I wished they could work something, I really like him. I really do.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh. Well what about the Houston Oilers. Do you like them?
[speaker001:] Yeah, okay, I'd love to see Dallas and Houston play in a Super Bowl. That would be really great.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] That may not ever happen, I don't know.
[speaker002:] [Breathing] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Uh, Houston has had some wonderful talent, you know, down through the years and in the earlier years they really had some super teams.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh. And Warren Moon,
[speaker001:] That's right.
[speaker002:] is, is proving himself quite well right now.
[speaker001:] He certainly is, he's very good.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] He's very good.
[speaker002:] He's one of the few, uh, Black quarterbacks that there are.
[speaker001:] That's right. Randall Cunningham was with Philadelphia, I guess last year, but he's no longer with the team. [Pause] So, you're right, there are very few Black quarterbacks, or at least that are starting anyway.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] How do you think the Steelers are going to do this year. You have any idea.
[speaker002:] I don't know, I hope they, they do better. They, they during the past couple of years they've been doing a little bit better.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] But, uh, I think they still have a little, I think they're still such a, a young team I think they still have a little bit to go before they reach the potential,
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] [Throat clearing] that it did when ever Bradshaw was playing.
[speaker001:] Oh, yeah, that was just such super team.
[speaker002:] Or, if they even reach that potential again, you know, they may never reach that again.
[speaker001:] Yeah. Well that's a tough, it would be tough to do, it really would.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] They have such a super team for years, that won what, four Super Bowls?
[speaker002:] Yeah, four in a row.
[speaker001:] Four in a row. I don't know if that could ever be duplicated again or not.
[speaker002:] Oh, I don't know.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] Shooting for one for the thumb now is what they were saying.
[speaker001:] That's right [LAUGHTER]. And,
[speaker002:] But basically everyone that was on the team then is gone now, so.
[speaker001:] That's right.
[speaker002:] I think Mike Webster was left but then he, he just left.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh, yeah.
[speaker002:] Uh.
[speaker001:] He may have been the last of the old guard, I don't know.
[speaker002:] Yeah, I think he is, I think he was.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh, yeah, they had such a super team.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Have you been following the big draft that occurred yesterday?
[speaker002:] [Throat clearing] No, I didn't.
[speaker001:] I see.
[speaker002:] Huh-uh.
[speaker001:] There's quite a bit of activity now, of course they had so many, you know, nice, uh, choices because their record was so lousy the last few years. They picked up,
[speaker002:] Uh.
[speaker001:] you know, quite a few of the, of course you never know. The guys they pick, you know, m-, may never play a game. You jus-, never know, it's, it's a gamble, it really is.
[speaker002:] Yeah, uh-huh.
[speaker001:] They may get hurt, or, not be able to participate at that level, if you know,
[speaker002:] Well who would you say is your favorite player, or has ever been your favorite player?
[speaker001:] Ever been?
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Probably an old guy that played, probably before you were born [LAUGHTER],
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] his name was Sam Huff. He used to play for the New York Giants.
[speaker002:] Oh.
[speaker001:] That was one of the toughest guys that I've ever seen in my life,
[speaker002:] Really.
[speaker001:] as far as, you know, dedication. He just went all out every single play.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Of course, there have been some other great ones too, Dick Butkis, and Bradshaw, you know, there's been so many.
[speaker002:] Yeah, ye-,
[speaker001:] But if I had to pick one, I would probably pick Sam Huff, as a matter of fact.
[speaker002:] Oh, you know, that's really funny, um, well, I, I come from a large family and, the-, there's quite a few boys so that's kind of how I got in with the football. Either watch that or watch nothing.
[speaker001:] That's right.
[speaker002:] And, um, at one time I could name all the players on the Steelers, you know.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And, but, even when Bradshaw was playing, I, I don't know, I, I didn't particularly care for him,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] I thought he was kind of cocky or something.
[speaker001:] He is, he is,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] of course the-, a quarterback has a big ego.
[speaker002:] Yeah, uh-huh.
[speaker001:] They really d-, they have to have, they can't survive.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh, uh-huh.
[speaker001:] They always think they can win, you know, which is the way it should be.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Boy, he never gave up, I'll tell you.
[speaker002:] Yeah him and Franco Harris, I really didn't care for the either two of them.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh, uh-huh,
[speaker002:] I mean they were good, but, I, you know, you couldn't deny that.
[speaker001:] Oh yeah.
[speaker002:] But I didn't, I thought, you know, well I just didn't really care for either one of them.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Uh, today, [throat clearing] my favorites out of those guys were probably, um, Lambert,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Ham,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] and, uh, Stallworth and Swan.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh, absolutely, I can't disagree with that. They were super players, they really were.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] They really,
[speaker002:] I, I, I like, not just with the Pittsburgh, I like watching on Saturday afternoons when they'll have like the plays or the, the best plays from,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] you know, from the week or something.
[speaker001:] Yeah, highlights, yeah.
[speaker002:] Yeah, I love watching that. Then I like watching their bloopers too, you know [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Yeah, yeah, that's kind of funny too, as a matter of fact [LAUGHTER]. Some of them a, a bit embarrassing. Yeah, well they make mistakes too, I guess.
[speaker002:] Yeah, uh-huh,
[speaker001:] Absol-,
[speaker002:] it's funny that more people don't get hurt.
[speaker001:] Absolutely.
[speaker002:] You know, especially, I would say the receivers,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh, oh they,
[speaker002:] when they're in the air and they get tackled.
[speaker001:] They take such a beating.
[speaker002:] Oh, yeah, it's funny some of their necks don't get broken.
[speaker001:] Absolutely, I don't know how they do it. It's, it must just take a hundred percent concentration, I guess, because they know they're going to get hit, it's just a matter of how hard, you know, or where.
[speaker002:] Yeah. An they have to be in ideal physical shape, basically.
[speaker001:] Oh, absolutely. They look like sometimes they're just broken in two like a match stem.
[speaker002:] [Throat clearing] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Gosh, what a beating, they really do take a beating, they really do.
[speaker002:] Yeah. Well what did you think of, um. a couple years ago for the Bears, the Refrigerator.
[speaker001:] I think he was just probably a passing phenomena, I think [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] I don't know, I, I'm knowing what, you know, of course, Mike Ditka was in Dallas for years and years as coach, is knowing his, or, you know, knowing of his temperament, I'm just surprised he ever, you know, kept the guy around, I really am. He's such a, he's about a half hot head anyway, such a temper.
[speaker002:] Oh, you know, and to me he does, um, oh, he's just so big and fat,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] he doesn't even look like he's in shape. He's just so big, no one can move him.
[speaker001:] That's right, yeah, absolutely. There's just so much mass there, I guess they just can't, I don't know, you know, I, probably the guy is, you know, probably physically strong. I, you know, obviously not very fast.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] But I guess it's just, like you say, a mass that nobody can seem t-, to get out of the way. As far as him scoring touch downs, you know, I think that was kind of weird.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] I don't know, Dallas has a guy, uh, his name is Nate Newton, now he has a real weight problem too. He fights it every single year, but, he manages to still keep playing, but,
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] he has a terrible weight problem.
[speaker002:] Wow.
[speaker001:] They wa-, the coaches watch him all year long. They, they weigh him several times a year just to make sure he's not, you know, completely out of control.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] But I guess most every team has so-, has someone like that, I don't,
[speaker002:] Oh, yeah, there's, there are some really big guys playing in football.
[speaker001:] Absolutely they get bigger and bigger, it seems every year.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] I guess you have to to, you know, to stay in the game I guess.
[speaker002:] Yeah, you would, uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] Um, now who, would you say that you have a fav-, I mean other than Dallas, would you say that you have, uh, a favorite quarterback. I mean the quarterback's seem to get most of the, the attention, you know.
[speaker001:] Oh, yeah, sure, well, you'd have to, uh, or I would have to say, you know, someone like Montana, I guess, who's done so well for so many years.
[speaker002:] Yeah, I re-, I, I enjoy watching him play.
[speaker001:] Yeah, his age is about to catch up with him though.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] He's no Spring chicken anymore.
[speaker002:] No, but he's still performing.
[speaker001:] And like you say Warren Moon's an excellent, Warren Moon's an excellent. But he's very exciting to watch.
[speaker002:] Yes he is,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh, sure.
[speaker002:] I, I, I enjoy watching him also.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh, absolutely.
[speaker002:] What about, uh, Marino?
[speaker001:] Uh, I'm, obviously he's a very good quarterback, I'd, I never was, you know, too, a whole lot of, a big fan, you know.
[speaker002:] I think he'll get better as he gets older.
[speaker001:] Yeah, he may, uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Because he, he well wa-, he was the youngest quarterback there was, wasn't he?
[speaker001:] Yes he was, I believe that's right at one point in time. Ye-, but he's a very young fellow.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Yeah, of course a quarterback can look so good if he's got a lot, if he's got a good supporting cast, you know.
[speaker002:] That's true, that's true.
[speaker001:] If not, he gets beat to death like poor old Troy Aikman has the last couple of years anyway, you kno-, we-, Dallas did better last year, hopefully they'll do better this year.
[speaker002:] [Talking] [talking to someone else in the room] Uh, probably around twelve, uh-huh. Yeah, uh, I didn't, I don't know, I, I just think, you know Marino will get better and, uh, his team's not as good as what it was when he went to the Super Bowl,
[speaker001:] That's right.
[speaker002:] you know, so.
[speaker001:] Yeah, Miami's had some down years, too.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] But they all do, I guess, it's, it's cyclical, I guess.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] As the players get older, get slower.
[speaker002:] Yeah [LAUGHTER]. That's true, ye-, and with age comes,
[speaker001:] Yeah, with yeah,
[speaker002:] you know, the, the I'm sure arthritis sets in with them,
[speaker001:] Oh yes, very much so.
[speaker002:] you know.
[speaker001:] Hip injuries and things like that, yeah.
[speaker002:] Right, yeah.
[speaker001:] Yeah, that, that forces a lot of the guys to get out of the game.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh, and they're so young,
[speaker001:] That's right.
[speaker002:] but, they're retired, you know, and their so young still.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh, yeah, I read some time, well not too long ago that the average, uh, professional career only lasts seven years.
[speaker002:] Oh.
[speaker001:] So that's when you think about it, that's really not a very long time, of course.
[speaker002:] Oh yeah, but then you think about how many have been in there longer than that.
[speaker001:] But if the average is seven years that means a lot of guys don't make it seven years, you know.
[speaker002:] [Throat clearing] Yeah, a lot of them would have to get out like in just a couple.
[speaker001:] That's right, yeah, *should this be two slash units? that's ri-,
[speaker002:] Holy smokes, I didn't [NOISE] that doesn't seem like very long.
[speaker001:] That's, that's a pretty short career on average.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Of course they play their, you know, cards right and do some good investments, [door] they'll, you know, they'll do all right.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] But a lot of them don't, unfortunately.
[speaker002:] Yeah. Um, what do you think of the, uh, L A Raiders, used to the, the Oakland?
[speaker001:] Yeah, they, they're always branded, you know, as a bunch of outlaws and,
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] if their, if their, you know, arrest record won't let abl-, won't let them play anywhere else, they seem to go to, they seem to go to the Raiders.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] But that just may be, you know, perceived, you know perception, I don't know.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Al Davis is, he's a kind of strange character, strange, strange looking guy. Apparently he's kind of a wild guy, I don't really know for sure. They've had some excellent teams, though, obviously.
[speaker002:] Yes, they have.
[speaker001:] I'm not sure they've yet decided where they want to play, they keeping talk about, you know, going,

[speaker001:] Well, let me see, what have you seen lately?
[speaker002:] Well, uh, CITY SLICKERS, and STAR TREK FIVE.
[speaker001:] FIVE?
[speaker002:] Yeah [LAUGHTER], yeah.
[speaker001:] Y-, only, only five?
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] I thought I'd better see that one before I go and see six.
[speaker001:] [Throat clearing] Well, no, didn't need to.
[speaker002:] No, I found that out [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] How about yourself?
[speaker001:] I just saw the latest one.
[speaker002:] How is it?
[speaker001:] It was fantastic.
[speaker002:] Oh, I can't wait.
[speaker001:] Yeah, it's, the lines in there were just perfect. I mean, it was classic TREK.
[speaker002:] Now, does the old STAR TREK guys meet the new guys?
[speaker001:] No, huh-uh.
[speaker002:] No, it's just the old guys still.
[speaker001:] Yeah, it was just a rumor that that would happen this time. However, the rumor is, is that it will happen next, happen next time so,
[speaker002:] You know, that I read in PEOPLE or somewhere, no, it was U S A TODAY
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] that they said they weren't going to do anymore. That was it.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] But,
[speaker001:] Yeah, uh, except that the rumor is, is that they still might, but it may not include the entire crew and it will be a next generation meets this generation [throat clearing].
[speaker002:] Huh.
[speaker001:] So,
[speaker002:] I'm not sure what the difference in light years between the new generation and the, the old guys was.
[speaker001:] I think it's a hundred years.
[speaker002:] Huh.
[speaker001:] Somewhere in that range. Considering that Spock was on an, uh, you know, couple weeks ago
[speaker002:] Oh, that's right.
[speaker001:] and that the, the very first episode of NEXT GENERATION, they had McCoy.
[speaker002:] Is that right? He was
[speaker001:] And,
[speaker002:] a doctor
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] still?
[speaker001:] Yeah, well, you know, he was rear admiral, whatever, you know, and he just kind of hobbled down the halls real slow. Vulcans age a lot better [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Well, yeah, he didn't look too bad, did he?
[speaker001:] No, huh-uh. Matter of fact, he looks just as about as old and the, uh, NEXT GENERATION as he does in the latest STAR TREK [LAUGHTER]. Imagine that.
[speaker002:] Yeah, that's amazing.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] But, did they have some pretty good special effects?
[speaker001:] [Throat clearing] Oh, excellent, excellent special effects. But I think the script was, you know, just incredible compared to the last one.
[speaker002:] Yeah, FIVE was, the script was bad, bad, bad [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Well, you know why?
[speaker002:] No, I don't. Why?
[speaker001:] Uh, William Shatner wrote it.
[speaker002:] Oh, is that right?
[speaker001:] And even worse, he directed it.
[speaker002:] Uh,
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] L-, Leonard, s-, Nimoy, he does a lot better.
[speaker001:] Oh, yeah, he, in fact, uh, he didn't direct this one. He produced this one [throat clearing]. But he directed the one before, uh, I think STAR TREK FOUR, something like that.
[speaker002:] IN SEARCH OF SPOCK, or, no, JOURNEY HOME, I think that was.
[speaker001:] Yeah, uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Are, you're a real life Trekkie?
[speaker001:] L-, I think so [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] I really like them. I, I wouldn't go so far as being a Trekkie, but
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] uh,
[speaker001:] Well, I've gone to, you know, one for real live Trek Convention but,
[speaker002:] Oh, really?
[speaker001:] Yeah, I saw James Doohan, you know, the guy that plays, uh, Scotty.
[speaker002:] Huh, did you get to talk to him?
[speaker001:] No [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] It was
[speaker001:] Not in a crowd like that.
[speaker002:] crowded.
[speaker001:] Huh-uh.
[speaker002:] No.
[speaker001:] It was like, uh, want an autograph, want to stand in line for about four hours.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Wow.
[speaker001:] [Throat clearing] It was a pretty crowded place.
[speaker002:] Huh. They have some good management principals in this NEW GENERATION.
[speaker001:] Oh, yeah, yeah, I, it's, it's kind of funny. I, uh, was reading in, uh, a book. Uh, trying to think, I can't quite remember the name of the book, but it was, it was saying don't do STAR TREK management style. And they were referring to, you know, Captain Kirk, every time he left the Enterprise, everything went to hell.
[speaker002:] Oh.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] And nothing got righted until he got back up on the ship [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Right, so he kind of was a cowboy type, too.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh
[speaker002:] Made all the decisions but, uh, Jean Luke does more of a, a,
[speaker001:] [Throat clearing].
[speaker002:] committee type of management.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh, yeah, uh, it's definitely a lot better [LAUGHTER]. A lot more realistic really.
[speaker002:] What other movies have you seen?
[speaker001:] Uh, saw THE ADDAMS FAMILY last week.
[speaker002:] Oh, how was that?
[speaker001:] [Throat clearing] It was pretty good. Uh, there were a few things different than the old series, but on the, on the whole, it was pretty similar. And, [breathing] a lot of fun.
[speaker002:] Lots of little funny spots, huh.
[speaker001:] Oh, yeah, yeah.
[speaker002:] Did they have Thing and,
[speaker001:] Oh, yes, in fact, Thing has a big, much bigger role than he does in the series. I mean, you know, there is lots of areas where Thing saves the day.
[speaker002:] Really?
[speaker001:] And he runs around a lot.
[speaker002:] How did, I've always wondered how he gets around.
[speaker001:] Uh, you know, just finger hopping.
[speaker002:] But he's in a box, right?
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] No, no, no, in fact, it's funny. He never did, does come in out of a box, I don't think. Yeah, he was just kind of walking around.
[speaker002:] Didn't he used to?
[speaker001:] Not really. He was always
[speaker002:] Oh.
[speaker001:] in the box before.
[speaker002:] Oh, that's, yeah, that's, okay.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] Yeah, that's what I was thinking.

[speaker001:] well I wondered if I was going to get to talk to a male or a female on this topic
[speaker002:] have you been talking to males yeah yeah this is this is probably more interesting if it had been a male and a female
[speaker001:] I was afraid we might get into an argument well uh
[speaker002:] right
[speaker001:] I guess uh there have been certainly a lot of changes in the last couple of generations for uh the roles of women
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] and uh I guess the most significant probably is that so many are working now and trying to juggle
[speaker002:] right
[speaker001:] job and home and family and all sorts of other possibilities you know they may be going to school or may have elderly parents or you know all sorts of other things
[speaker002:] yeah it it seems too me like though women's roles are changing faster than the men and therefore the women are spreading themselves thinner
[speaker001:] oh I think so
[speaker002:] than before
[speaker001:] absolutely I I I think it's extremely difficult to keep up with all that uh we have to these days
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] sometimes I think I am going crazy trying to do it but
[speaker002:] do you work outside the home
[speaker001:] yes
[speaker002:] do you have children
[speaker001:] uh yes they are getting older now so they are not quite as much of a responsibility but they are still there you know they still take time and
[speaker002:] uh-huh oh sure
[speaker001:] and I you know I still provide most of the the things that go on around the house
[speaker002:] right
[speaker001:] so uh yeah and for a while I was going to school to and that it was tough
[speaker002:] yeah I uh I think that while it's a good change for I think women to be able to fulfill their potential in whatever they feel you know their expertise may be uh I think sometimes other things suffer and that I think it's hard to find a balance there
[speaker001:] um-hum but in some ways I think we are expected to do it all you're almost looked down upon if you don't try to do all of these things and that's where the problem is really
[speaker002:] right yeah yeah I have little children four and one and I decided that it was very important to me to stay home um and
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] when I I I happen to you know be I'm very active with uh people other people with children my age and most of us do tend to stay home but when I run into people that you know just have recently had had babies or have very young children and are working full time I there's almost a uh friction between us
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] um not people that are you know necessarily good friends even though that has happened too uh it it's almost as though it puts you on different sides of a fence you know when if you decide to go back to work then
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] you feel like you are always having to defend yourself and and if you don't then sometimes you feel like you're looked down upon by people that go back to work and so you're just wasting your time at home
[speaker001:] right yeah yeah it's a tough one I mean I've done some of both I when my kids were real little I was at home for a couple of different periods of time oh I think the longest was less than a year but still
[speaker002:] um-hum um-hum
[speaker001:] at least I was able to to spend you know those first months with them
[speaker002:] right
[speaker001:] but uh I mostly went back to work because I was tired of doing without things you know the money was the issue
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] but uh even now I would I would like to not have to work in some ways it it's a kind of pull and tug on the other hand
[speaker002:] right yeah
[speaker001:] I can't imagine just being at home uh although I have a lot of interests and a lot of things I would like to pursue
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] uh still uh there's there's sort of a feeling of accomplishment with having you know a job and all that goes with that
[speaker002:] no that that's definitely true in fact I I work out of my home um I'm an accountant and I do taxes and bookkeeping and
[speaker001:] oh
[speaker002:] I uh it it was it's a way for me to stay home
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] and I mean I still unfortunately have to be very disciplined in in doing my work at five in the morning and ten o'clock at night but
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] uh but but it it's worked out for for my family uh to have my cake and eat it too kind of thing
[speaker001:] yeah yeah that's a good deal where do you think this is going in the future I mean do you think things are going to change or are we going to keep having to try to juggle all of this
[speaker002:] well I I I hope that they will change uh but but I'm I just I know it's going to be a slow change uh I I feel as though a lot of people are going back to just having a one wage earner I mean I'm just thinking of my circle of people that I know I know quite a few people who have decided to not have both both uh couples you know both uh of the parents work and yet um
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] I I well I hope to see employer based you know helping out you know child uh care centers at the place of employment and and things like that that will help out
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] what do you think do you think we're setting a trend here or
[speaker001:] I don't yeah I well I see I think some people wanting to stay home more and take care of the children uh and even those who may not do it seem to be
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] spending more time with their kids and really trying harder at making all of the the family things work
[speaker002:] right
[speaker001:] uh but I don't know if they're going to ever give up their careers you know It's sort of like they went to school and they worked so hard to get where they are I don't know if they want to completely give that up
[speaker002:] right it is a very personal thing
[speaker001:] but it would be nice if there could be an in-between a middle ground somewhere
[speaker002:] yeah I think it's hard though when you talk about about families and and raising children because children I think children have a hard time understanding a middle ground I think they uh they need security and yet they I don't know I from speaking from my children they they aren't real flexible when it comes to things like that
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] they uh they they want to know things are going to be a certain way
[speaker001:] well yeah I think they they like a routine of sorts
[speaker002:] um-hum right well we'll see I I'm hoping to see more female leadership in in our society
[speaker001:] well yes I I like the fact that you know gradually you're beginning to see women in public office and executive positions but it's still a long way from being what it ought to be
[speaker002:] oh yes and the the numbers are still very skewed to say the least
[speaker001:] yeah okay well I enjoyed talking to you all right good-bye
[speaker002:] okay you too Ellen bye-bye

[speaker001:] now then I think that are you there all right do you have any one that has been in a nursing home
[speaker002:] uh-huh yeah I'm here uh well uh we may um my grandmother before very short time um she uh she was just more or less in a in a nursing home for uh recovery from a broken hip
[speaker001:] oh
[speaker002:] because she could receive more medical attention but um that physical therapy was there and whatever but I think in visiting her there
[speaker001:] yes
[speaker002:] um it was very obvious to see that a lot of the people in the nursing home that she was in uh weren't there mentally uh she was probably the only person in the um whole nursing home that uh still had all of her mental facilities about her so that was uh that was very disheartening
[speaker001:] well what do you think can be done about that I mean what can we do
[speaker002:] oh yeah it's really hard I guess I I come from a family of um of uh take care of your elders I I guess um my my dad's mother is an invalid and she lives with my aunt and uncle and they care for her you know all around the clock though she's not uh she doesn't have to receive constant medical attention she because of arthritis she's just unable to get out of bed so I guess you know there's that family commitment um I know that my parents my mother's trying to let my grandmother stay in her house as long as she can um
[speaker001:] well I can remember of course I'm old enough to remember when the family or the church took care of all of this
[speaker002:] yeah right yeah
[speaker001:] we did not have to call on on someone else and I feel no you tell me how you feel about
[speaker002:] yeah well probably I think as long as the person's able to um to understand what's going on around them and I think you know my grandmother right now still able to walk around and she's still able to um to do some things for herself though she gets Meals On Wheels which I think is a great thing because um
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] it saves people from having to prepare her food for her because you worry a little bit about her leaving a stove on or whatever though she does most things very well it still makes a little bit easier for her
[speaker001:] certainly did I worked with an agency in West Texas that
[speaker002:] hum-um
[speaker001:] they it's where they really started this concept of Meals On Wheels
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] and I think it's such a valuable thing for our elderly if they didn't have to you know go into a kitchen
[speaker002:] um-hum right
[speaker001:] my mother hexpired just just a little over a year ago and we had finally she didn't wanna live with either my sister or me
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] but we be got found a retirement center for her and it was beautiful and they had all these they didn't even have nursing care there so until as long as mother was you know mobile and got her food and she was with people with whom she enjoyed
[speaker002:] um-hum right yeah that I think you know it's really funny I have two grandmothers still alive and my my one grandmother says that she wants to stay in her house for as long as possible she's like openly told people she's always been very good about knowing yes she's eighty nine and she said that she really would like to stay in her house as long as possible because it's her home
[speaker001:] sure
[speaker002:] but when the time comes um she and she can't do things and she has to be cared for or whatever she would prefer and she's actually said this to move into some type of community where she has her own apartment uh probably with like a living space and a bedroom with maybe a kitchenette
[speaker001:] yes sir
[speaker002:] so that if she you know if she wants to fix herself something light she can do that but if she wants to go to a meal she can go down the hallway uh to a room where there's a cafeteria and there's other people there and she can mix with them and talk with them and enjoy their company
[speaker001:] yeah being a widow I find that eating alone is one of the hardest things I have to do
[speaker002:] um-hum yes um-hum
[speaker001:] I have just recently retired and I am finding it extremely hard to adjust to
[speaker002:] right
[speaker001:] so uh mother had the little kitchenette and she could do all these fine things that she just
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] had had a microwave had to pop her popcorn now this is wonderful but when it came time for a full meal
[speaker002:] right um-hum
[speaker001:] then mother was able to go with people and and enjoy it
[speaker002:] right yeah I think I think that probably until invalids until they're really invalids elderly the elderly are invalids I think that they should be able to interact with other people in in an environment that they choose if they can if the family can afford it I think um and see I know that
[speaker001:] oh I think so too well
[speaker002:] my grandmother would like to stay in her house and my parents actually said you know that they may have to take their end sometime so because you know my grandma actually says who she wants to live with she's pretty you know she lets people know so

[speaker001:] Of a exercise program you have.
[speaker002:] Well, um, [throat clearing] I have a, a, a former exercise program. I'm a graduate student, and this semester, I'll tell you what, I, it's been almost impossible for me to get, you know, back to regular exercise.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] Um, [throat clearing] last summer I was a, a swim instructor all summer and, and life guard, so it was really easy for me to get quite a bit of exercise swimming and, um, and since I worked at a recreation center I could, uh, you know, use those facilities quite often. But, um.
[speaker001:] Well, swimming is, uh, one of the best exercises you can do.
[speaker002:] Oh, yeah.
[speaker001:] [Baby talking] I mean
[speaker002:] Oh, yeah.
[speaker001:] as far as for, uh, cardiovascular and
[speaker002:] Uh-huh, and there's
[speaker001:] and it's
[speaker002:] and there's no jarring on the.
[speaker001:] least hard on your body, I,
[speaker002:] Pardon?
[speaker001:] It's the least hard on your body
[speaker002:] Exactly, yeah, um, flu-,
[speaker001:] as far as, uh, impact and
[speaker002:] yeah, fluid resistance.
[speaker001:] Right, right.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh, uh-huh. How about you?
[speaker001:] Well, I do, uh, little aerobics, oh, three or four times a week, but it's not enough to, boy if I go, in the summer time I try to jog, jog a couple of miles
[speaker002:] Oh, yeah.
[speaker001:] and, uh, well, you know, even doing that three or four times a week, when summer hits, that's a hard thing to go out and
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] Yeah.
[speaker001:] and go jogging for, uh
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] half hour or so, but
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] so, I'm not quite getting the level that I need to.
[speaker002:] Yeah. Do you, do you kind of think it's a chore, or do you enjoy it?
[speaker001:] I like it.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] I like it, uh, part of my problem is I have small children, so, uh, to do a whole lot just requires a lot of, oh, coordination as far as
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] scheduling and
[speaker002:] Sure, yeah.
[speaker001:] that type of, uh, deal, you know, uh, when you're in college, boy.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] You got a hundred things going on. Of course, you got a little different direction going, but, uh.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh, yeah. Uh, I, um, I used to, uh, I used to weigh, uh, two hundred fifteen pounds, and now I weigh only about one, about one seventy-five. Um, [throat clearing] so I drastically had to change the way I ate when I, when I first moved to college, and, uh, I had started weight lifting quite regularly, and so I got my weight down, and it's kind of easy for me to forget about it now, because, uh, you know, when I'm not fat like I used to be
[speaker001:] Right, you don't notice it
[speaker002:] I don't worry about it , yeah.
[speaker001:] as much, yeah.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh. Although lately I have noticed, you know, even if I gain, like two pounds, I start, I start feeling it and,
[speaker001:] You feel it, don't you?
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] It's amazing how, uh, how much, uh, it changes, and I weigh probably about the same I weighed for, oh, I don't know how many years, but, uh, it's changed places [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] And things don't fit just quite exactly
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] Yeah.
[speaker001:] fit the same.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] But, uh, so, do you do, uh, in Texas, uh, does there, probably quite a few facilities.
[speaker002:] Yeah, there are. Um, I'm living in a dorm right now, and so right downstairs there's a facility. And I really feel kind of guilty for not working out more than I do because there's a facility right downstairs where all, you know, all we have to do is, is, uh, run down there and.
[speaker001:] Do you enjoy it, or is it, uh.
[speaker002:] I really do if I have the time to.
[speaker001:] If you can have, find the time
[speaker002:] Uh-huh
[speaker001:] it's just the.
[speaker002:] yeah, I really do, because I like to get, you know, get off alone and just do that for a while, but that's hard, [LAUGHTER] you know.
[speaker001:] Yeah, it is hard
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] it is hard. It's, uh, like anything else whether or not you want to
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] sacrifice another half hour. My problem is I don't want to wake up another half hour earlier
[speaker002:] Exactly.
[speaker001:] and do more [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Don't get enough sleep as it is, right
[speaker002:] Uh-huh, yeah, yeah.
[speaker001:] and, uh, kind of have, if you're having the pressures of school and, uh, everything else, it's kind of, course it's really, you know, as soon as you do it, it's really a release.
[speaker002:] Oh, yeah.
[speaker001:] You feel invigorated and you feel
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] [Inhaling] oh, you feel in a lot better shape
[speaker002:] Yeah, ready to go another twelve hours.
[speaker001:] just like eating right foods.
[speaker002:] Yeah, yeah.
[speaker001:] If I eat very much sugar, boy, just does something.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh. Do you have to watch what you eat pretty regularly?
[speaker001:] I do. I have to be real careful.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh. I stopped eating meat about, oh, uh, must have been eight months ago.
[speaker001:] Did you?
[speaker002:] Uh-huh, completely. I mean, any kind of meat or, and I, and I really feel a lot better [throat clearing] now.
[speaker001:] Makes a lot of difference.
[speaker002:] Yeah, it really does.
[speaker001:] Well, there's a lot of fat in meat.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh, yeah, that's it, I mean, that's about where almost all of the fat comes from
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] and so. I found that really helps.
[speaker001:] And unless you really like, uh, fish.
[speaker002:] .
[speaker001:] Fish is pretty good for you, but, uh.
[speaker002:] Yeah, I eat that, I think I've eaten fish like twice since. I used to eat a lot of fish, too, but [throat clearing] I just tried to cut it all out for a while and see what happens.
[speaker001:] Kind of see what happens.
[speaker002:] Yeah, and I like it.
[speaker001:] I've tried to do that with sugar and,
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] it's almost impossible
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] I don't know if I'm that brave yet.
[speaker001:] everything has sugar in it.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] I mean, if you go, your ketchup has sugar in it.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh, uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Course, and I like sugar, too, that's
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] that's a problem, but.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Anyway, well, it's, uh, nice talking to you. Think we've, uh, covered all the subject.
[speaker002:] Okay, yeah, it sounds good.
[speaker001:] Okay.
[speaker002:] Well, good luck to you there in Idaho.
[speaker001:] Well, you, too. Good luck, uh, enjoy college while you can. Let me tell you it's, uh.
[speaker002:] Well, I'm in graduate school now. I, [throat clearing] I, I kind of feel like I wish I could have gone back to undergraduate now [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] It's a little different, uh
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] challenge, isn't it?
[speaker002:] Yeah, it is. Well, it's good talking,
[speaker001:] Where are you going
[speaker002:] Pardon?
[speaker001:] studying?
[speaker002:] I'm studying speech pathology.
[speaker001:] Right.

[speaker001:] [TV] an interesting topic.
[speaker002:] Yes.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] The, uh, type of cars that I was, uh, I would be most interested in if I was going to buy another car now would probably be something like a, uh, Mazda Miata.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Uh, the, uh, I'm very much a, a fan of sports cars.
[speaker001:] Ah. Boy,
[speaker002:] The,
[speaker001:] you and my husband would have a whole lot in common [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] The, uh,
[speaker001:] [Child].
[speaker002:] uh, uh, though, actually, in som-, actually if I h-, I have av-, I've avoided buying a new car for quite some time. I'd rather put my money into, uh,
[speaker001:] [Rustling].
[speaker002:] restoring my old cars. I have a old Triumph T R Six.
[speaker001:] [Children yelling] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And, uh, uh, so, uh, but if I was to buy one, probably something like a Miata. It's certainly, i-, I wouldn't have to worry about it breaking down all the time [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Oh, really.
[speaker002:] Yeah [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] What's the, how old is your car?
[speaker002:] Uh, well I have a, I have a nineteen eighty, uh, eighty-five C R X.
[speaker001:] Oh.
[speaker002:] Uh, which is, you know, it's, it still works fine [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Yeah. Right.
[speaker002:] But it's, it's actually, it's kind of annoying cause I've got no reason to replace it [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Oh.
[speaker002:] But, uh,
[speaker001:] Yeah. So what do the Miatas run?
[speaker002:] Oh, those are, they're about, uh, uh, thirteen to fourteen thousand dollars and, you know, a bit more if you add some some options and so on but
[speaker001:] Well, that's not too bad.
[speaker002:] the, uh, yeah, that's a pretty good price and
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] they're, they're, they're, they're so nice to drive.
[speaker001:] Really? I've never driven one.
[speaker002:] Uh, uh, it's, it's, it's nice. They're, I've been down to a dealer and driven them. And I've also driven one at a, something Mazda put on where, uh, they went to, uh, autocross events across the country. Uh, which is where you race in, uh, you race on, in a parking lot or something like that with a bunch of, uh, cones to see who can get through the fastest.
[speaker001:] Huh?
[speaker002:] Uh, you know, about a minute or so.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And, uh, very twisty stuff. And oh, it handles so nicely.
[speaker001:] And so you've done this?
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Oh. Okay.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Oh [pounding].
[speaker002:] It was just, it, it's just so smooth and.
[speaker001:] Really? Yeah [very faint].
[speaker002:] Yeah. Nice car. What are you interested in?
[speaker001:] [Children yelling] [LAUGHTER] Whatever my husband buys [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] Yeah. You you don't get involved in, uh, car decisions?
[speaker001:] Oh, not too much. No. We, uh, [lipsmack] [sigh] we just got rid of a [sigh] full conversion van that, that I, I, i-, that wasn't me. That was my husband.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] He wanted a van and he wanted to drive that van and travel and wanted everything in there. T V, you know, the whole bit.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] But I never drove it so it just, it wasn't me, you know.
[speaker002:] Yeah. I can understand. Well would *slash error should be qw
[speaker001:] And then,
[speaker002:] you want, if you had to decide, what would you want?
[speaker001:] Oh, I'd want a minivan [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Okay, *slash error should be bk yeah. They're nice.
[speaker001:] Because I'm with the kids all the time.
[speaker002:] Oh, yeah. That's
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] perfect for that.
[speaker001:] Yeah. And,
[speaker002:] It's not, it, it's small enough that it's easy to drive.
[speaker001:] Yeah. You pick up
[speaker002:] Holds a lot.
[speaker001:] I pick up my little one from preschool and the whole parking lot's full of minivans.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] But, you know, I, I drive a little Subaru.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] [Swallowing] And, uh, we, I love that. I, we were going to trade that in for the van but I just wanted to hold on to it cause I just really enjoy that.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] And, uh, that's really all I needed was for something just to go here and there and back.
[speaker002:] Yeah. Minivans are nice. I have a friend who has a minivan.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And, uh, I've driven it a few times and, uh, i-, it's nice, it's nice. Of course, you know, my fam-, my family has always had cars like that. Uh, in that, you know, my father's had a, had a, always had a V W bus every since, uh
[speaker001:] Oh, really [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] nine, about nineteen sixty or so.
[speaker001:] Oh, really.
[speaker002:] Uh, uh,
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] [children talking].
[speaker002:] they, well, he, he used it, [throat clearing] he often has to transport [mispronounced] plants or, uh, things
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] like that cause he's, he goes to orchid shows and, and, you know, fills the car with plants. And so on or.
[speaker001:] Yeah. It's amazing what a minivan can do. We went camping this past weekend with some friends that had a minivan.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] And pulled the, uh, the little trailer behind.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] The pop-up trailer?
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] And, uh, it's, so it's really amazing how much a minivan c-, you know, what it can do.
[speaker002:] Yeah. And they're not that expensive.
[speaker001:] No, they're not.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] They're probably [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Mainly because everyone makes them, you know [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] You can take your choice of how expensive you [LAUGHTER] want it to be.
[speaker001:] Yeah. And we, we do a lot of, uh, driving. We do a lot of traveling.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh [very faint].
[speaker001:] By car. And so that's the only time that the, that the, uh, conversion van came in handy. But it really didn't cause our, our kids are still little.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] So, uh, [lipsmack] that was the only time we really needed it. Other than that, it got terrible mileage and.
[speaker002:] Yeah [NOISE]. Yeah. Minivans d-, do pretty well.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] You know, twenty, twenty, twenty-five miles per gallon or more.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] Some of them probably even do thirty.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] The, uh, yeah. There, there's some other cars I'd like but I, u-, u-, I would never be willing to send quite that much money for, uh, like, uh, uh, I'll drool over them.
[speaker001:] [Children talking] [TV].

[speaker001:] Okay, Ellen what kind of a car do you think you're going to buy? [TV and background noise].
[speaker002:] Well, as a matter of fact, I was thinking about that the other day, and, uh, I really don't know the answer, [LAUGHTER], uh, I would sort of like to, uh, think about something in the way of, uh, uh, sort of a sporty car but not any, not, you know, a luxury type sporty one.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] But, um, something that still has a lots of amenities and, you know, gadgets and things.
[speaker001:] Oh, you do want a lot of that stuff?
[speaker002:] Yeah, well, yeah I like, I like some of those things. They come in really handy [clicking sounds in background].
[speaker001:] What kind of, uh, things are you going to consider, you know, what, uh, you said something about the, about the, well, what do you call them, you said amenities,
[speaker002:] Amenities.
[speaker001:] that they have, but what about, um, their reputation of the company or the price.
[speaker002:] Yeah, well, of course, I guess, uh, price is always the big consideration, but,
[speaker001:] It is for me, other people,
[speaker002:] yeah.
[speaker001:] don't seem to have the same problem [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] Well, that's, that's a big one in my book,
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] but, uh, um, I have preferences for, uh, for some, uh, makers over others, um, and I would sort of like to buy American,
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] but, you know, I'm not so totally hung up on that, that [clicking sounds] I wouldn't buy something else, how about you?
[speaker001:] Well, um, the last car we bought was American because of, because of that reason, but have not been entirely happy with, uh, several things about the car, it doesn't seem like the quality is quite as high as I expected it to be.
[speaker002:] Oh, really?
[speaker001:] Because several things, minor things sort of, but still they cost us money, um, that we didn't feel like we should have had to pay, on a car that, that was that new,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] you know, we bought the car new and after, um, well, well, well under two years we had to replace the clutch.
[speaker002:] Oh.
[speaker001:] And, they just said, well, you know, clutches are disposable, and I said, since when?
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Brake pads are disposable,
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] you know, we know that, but I never thought a clutch was disposable.
[speaker002:] Yeah, I wouldn't have thought so either.
[speaker001:] Yeah, so that was, that was kind of a shock [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Oh. Yeah, I, I guess there's a lot to, to think about when you're trying to make that decision.
[speaker001:] Yeah, you know, the less actually, the less you spend on a car it seems like luxury cars, they're called luxury cars even though they're much more expensive like, like, uh, uh, a Mercedes Benz, they don't have the history of breaking down or things like that, that would go wrong would definitely not be considered disposable.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] You would never think of having to replace the clutch in a Mercedes,
[speaker002:] No but then,
[speaker001:] especially not after two years.
[speaker002:] No, but on the other hand, I guess, too, uh, whenever you do have to have some major work done on one of those it costs a fortune.
[speaker001:] Really? Oh I don't know.
[speaker002:] Yeah, I've, uh, worked with a couple of people who have owned, uh, various years, uh,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Mercedes and, even though they do a lot of the work themself then just buying the parts and everything is, is pretty expensive. But for them it's, it's sort of a hobby, too,
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] to own them.
[speaker001:] What kind of, what brand of car are you thinking about buying or like what things are you looking at?
[speaker002:] Well, I haven't re-, really gotten that far with it, um, I've always sort of liked General Motors,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] a little bit better than some of the others but, uh, oh, I guess, I really don't know.
[speaker001:] How come I've been kind of, um, I guess the commercials are getting to me, the Toyota commercials,
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] and I know that a lot of people I've, I've known that have had Toyotas have been just extremely happy with them, that hardly had any problems at all.
[speaker002:] Yeah, that, I think that's,
[speaker001:] I think they have a really good, uh, quality.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh. My, uh, daughter has owned two different ones, and, uh, you know, we've had some work done on them but it's not too bad, and the reason, one of the reasons we, um, bought the first one was because a friend of ours had a Toyota that he just really drove for years and years and years and he lived way out in the country so he put a lot of miles on it,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] and, you knew it had, had been through a whole lot,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] and yet, you know, it, it held up pretty doggone good, so,
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] I thought they would [clicking],
[speaker001:] They seem to be really durable.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] So, I don't know, I'm, I'm not ready to buy a new car yet, but I don't know, if, if the next time I'm going to try to, to stay with buying something American or if I'm going to go for a little more, what I would consider to be a long-term investment [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Yeah. Well, and I guess, you know, you always have to think about things like, your gas mileage and stuff like that, you know, you...
[speaker001:] Oh, it's easy to get gas mileage in this car,
[speaker002:] Yeah [background noise].
[speaker001:] it gets excellent gas mileage.
[speaker002:] Yeah, that's one of the big throwing cards for, some of the foreign ones [noise like one music note].
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] [Pause] Well, we talked long enough [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] I think so.
[speaker002:] Okay, well, enjoyed it.
[speaker001:] All righty, thanks [TV and background noise].
[speaker002:] Bye-bye.
[speaker001:] Bye-bye.

[speaker001:] So, the, the topic is hobbies [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] In your spare time.
[speaker001:] Yeah. Who has spare time [LAUGHTER]?
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Um, I don't really, don't really do any handicraft things like that. I used to. I used to do, like salt ornaments and things.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] But that was, oh, good many, many years ago and
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] I have, I really, my spare time I [NOISE] usually go do aerobics and read, and that's,
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] about it [breathing].
[speaker002:] Yeah. I understood that. I'm, [NOISE] you know, I work full time and I have two kids [lipsmack] so my spare time usually [NOISE] involves something with the kids.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] You know, hobbies, we, I, I can't really say that we have hobbies. It's more like maybe [NOISE] projects or something on the weekend. [NOISE] You know, we like to go out [pause],
[speaker001:] Yeah,
[speaker002:] go out,
[speaker001:] family. Well, well, that's what I meant by salt that we, [NOISE] we did that like as a family, little ornaments and,
[speaker002:] Oh. Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] things like that, and just kind of really got into it. Like during the Christmas season,
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] making them up for other people and things like that. But
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] as far as, I've just never been very skilled at,
[speaker002:] .
[speaker001:] far, you know, needle,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] work [NOISE] cloths. And the things I've tried to do just don't look very good [LAUGHTER],
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] and,
[speaker002:] I, I guess mostly as far as, as [NOISE] crafts go, I've done, um, [lipsmack] some needlepoint. I've done mostly cross stitching. I used to, uh, do like, um, one that I did for both kids are like, oh, [breathing] they're plaques [NOISE] with, you know, different kind of animals and then you have their birth date on them,
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] and then you have a little picture of them and you frame them and stuff,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] but nothing steady. Just when I get some spare time here and there I'll work on it, but, you know, it's nothing [NOISE] that I,
[speaker001:] It's not,
[speaker002:] can really,
[speaker001:] like you sit and knit every night [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] No. Not at all.
[speaker001:] Yeah. I don't even know how to knit and my mother used to knit, you know,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] all the time and, and I don't even know how to knit [LAUGHTER],
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] I'm like, that's a lost art from this family [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] So, um, but, it's not a very good topic it feels like,
[speaker002:] No.
[speaker001:] if, you know, not when you're n-, neither one of us are really, I, I have seen things I really like,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] you know, that were done, especially like needlepoint. Needlepoint,
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] cushions and things. But, it just seems like there'd be so much time involved in it,
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] you know, and, [NOISE] and that the petty point and things like that. It's like, God, it, it seems like it's easier just to go out and buy it already made [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] I don't know [NOISE] what, what, is, it's like there, but here a lot of the [NOISE] country stuff is in, you know, a lot of the woodwork, a lot of, uh, stenciling.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] And, you know, you can go to any, like a flea market and stuff and there's just tons of stuff everywhere and,
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] you know, people just do it in their garage and then on weekends they go out and sell it and during the week they go back and do some more.
[speaker001:] And see, they do that as their job. Whereas,
[speaker002:] Right [NOISE].
[speaker001:] you know, for us it, and they make it cheaper [NOISE] for us to buy [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Yeah [NOISE]. Definitely.
[speaker001:] So, but, and, I mean, I'm sure it must be relaxing to do things like that because I can remember when I used to do, you know, those little salt, those figurines and things. It was, it was relaxing, you know, creative, you felt very creative.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] But, it just was so time, time,
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] involved, you know, so much time involved [NOISE] and the different steps and things.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] So, and,
[speaker002:] Okay [NOISE]. Well, I think, I think we're okay. I think we did [NOISE] the five minutes, so we don't have to keep talking about nothing anymore [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Yeah. So,
[speaker002:] Okay. Well, thank you.
[speaker001:] Okay. I hope you have a good rest of your weekend.
[speaker002:] Thanks. Bye-bye.
[speaker001:] Okay. Bye-bye.

[speaker001:] Hello.
[speaker002:] Yes, I forgot we had to hit one [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Our time will be up.
[speaker001:] Well, I hit one and nothing happened. What's going on?
[speaker002:] Well, just go ahead and talk, that's all.
[speaker001:] Are you sure?
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Don't they usually tell you to say something?
[speaker002:] I don't think so.
[speaker001:] Oh.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Okay, we're supposed to talk about lawn and garden.
[speaker002:] Yes, I'm, I'm supposed to find out what you do for your lawn
[speaker001:] What do I do?
[speaker002:] and garden. Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Well, I, uh, I cut it
[speaker002:] Good.
[speaker001:] occasionally.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh, you're ahead of me.
[speaker001:] Is, uh, is that good? Okay.
[speaker002:] That's better.
[speaker001:] And I edge it occasionally.
[speaker002:] Oh, that's really good.
[speaker001:] Yeah, see, am I good, or what?
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] And, uh,
[speaker002:] I don't do any of that.
[speaker001:] Uh, much beyond that I don't do [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Really, well, I call my lawn man, Eric, whatever his name is, I can't remember.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Who's going to come and build me a fence, too.
[speaker001:] Oh, he is going to build you a fence.
[speaker002:] Well, he's giving me an estimate.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And for ten dollars a week, I don't see any reason
[speaker001:] What, for
[speaker002:] for me to
[speaker001:] a fence?
[speaker002:] be doing it. No, for my yard. *needs slash unit
[speaker001:] Oh, well, I thought, isn't he the same one?
[speaker002:] Yeah, he is.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] Yeah, but ten dollars, or what d-, what does he charge, not even that. What does he charge me?
[speaker001:] Well, my, I don't know.
[speaker002:] It's like next to nothing. Th-, it's ten because I, it's forty a month.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] But if there's five weeks, I still pay forty.
[speaker001:] Yeah, but you know, you ought to get him to g-, pull the weeds.
[speaker002:] Well, he won't pull weeds. He says he'll spray them, but he won't pull them.
[speaker001:] Oh.
[speaker002:] Uh, he won't cut them is what he won't do.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Because he said with the rocks
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] that it's too dangerous for him to take the, the trimmer
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] over the rocks and he's right.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] That's true. But he just says to keep spraying them so,
[speaker001:] Well so,
[speaker002:] Anyway, Gene sprayed them once or twice for me so
[speaker001:] Yeah, so
[speaker002:] that was real,
[speaker001:] you haven't, you haven't pulled any weeds lately?
[speaker002:] No.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] No. There are two out front I thought I'd grab one of these days, but I haven't bothered as I walk on by.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] I started to pull the weeds in the rocks out front
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] and all of a sudden I came cross this big clump of weeds and there was dog dirt in it
[speaker001:] Oh, oh, goody.
[speaker002:] and I threw the gloves in the trash bag that was out there and I left the whole thing and
[speaker001:] I thought you were going to say there
[speaker002:] that was about a month ago.
[speaker001:] I thought you were going to say there was a snake [LAUGHTER] in the weeds [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] I would rather a snake, no [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Oh, God, oh [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] I just left the whole thing. The bag is still out there because I haven't touched it.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] I haven't gone back over there. It really made me mad.
[speaker001:] Oh, God.
[speaker002:] So anyway but,
[speaker001:] But, uh, how are your, your flowers, your little things you planted? Did they die or what?
[speaker002:] Oh, yeah, now they died.
[speaker001:] Oh, they're all, so they, oh, are they going to come back in the spring?
[speaker002:] I don't know.
[speaker001:] Oh.
[speaker002:] I don't know, and then I got some nice, uh, mums at Thanksgiving that I put in the pots out there
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] and I thought they were supposed to live through all the cold weather.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] They looked real pretty until about a week before Christmas, then they started to die, too.
[speaker001:] Oh.
[speaker002:] So, I don't think any of it comes back but
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] I don't know, maybe these, sometimes things do that aren't even supposed to.
[speaker001:] I don't know, uh,
[speaker002:] So,
[speaker001:] Those flowers, remember those little ones you gave me?
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Yeah, well, they're, I know they were still blooming up until about a, a few weeks ago.
[speaker002:] Really?
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] Well, that's good. They're the best kind.
[speaker001:] Yeah they,
[speaker002:] They, they're like indestructible.
[speaker001:] They're really pretty.
[speaker002:] They really grow nice and sometimes, they're not supposed to come back, but lots of times they do.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] So,
[speaker001:] Yeah [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] We'll see. They're letting us have a lot of time on this
[speaker001:] Yeah, I mean
[speaker002:] aren't they?
[speaker001:] isn't it supposed to be five minutes?
[speaker002:] But that's because we didn't hit one for a long time.
[speaker001:] We didn't disconnect, did we [LAUGHTER]?
[speaker002:] I hope not [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] Neither one of us
[speaker001:] Boy, I hate to think
[speaker002:] is getting paid for this.
[speaker001:] I hate to think I'd be talking to you without getting paid [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Yeah, really, I know it. I can't believe this. I got somebody from
[speaker001:] What?
[speaker002:] Utah
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] and somebody, where was the person last night
[speaker001:] You're kidding?
[speaker002:] was from far away.
[speaker001:] Really?
[speaker002:] And we get each other down the street. This is so funny.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Well, the, uh, I, g-, I talked to someone woman from Oklahoma City and some woman from Dallas and that was it.
[speaker002:] Yeah, I've had Dallas, Arlington. I've had, uh, one Plano
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] and then a lady from Brigham, Utah whose
[speaker001:] Wow.
[speaker002:] son lives in Plano on Ranier someplace.
[speaker001:] Really?
[speaker002:] And then, uh, another state, I can't remember, but she told me about the Utah Jazz, we talked about basketball.
[speaker001:] Oh, really [LAUGHTER]?
[speaker002:] And I don't remember what, what the place was last night, but
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] I'm thinking Colorado, but I'm not sure I'd know the place, anyway.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] So,
[speaker001:] I don't know, th-,
[speaker002:] But mostly they're from the area.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] It,
[speaker001:] Well, there isn't really much to talk about as far as lawn and garden goes.
[speaker002:] Not for me.
[speaker001:] Not for me
[speaker002:] You know, not
[speaker001:] either. What
[speaker002:] not for me
[speaker001:] do I,
[speaker002:] because all I have is rocks and weeds.
[speaker001:] Yeah, but I don't, you know, I, what do I do, cut it one, you know, and, and edge it and that's about it.
[speaker002:] I know.
[speaker001:] What do I do with it?
[speaker002:] I know, we're not typical Texans.
[speaker001:] No.
[speaker002:] Bu-, [LAUGHTER],
[speaker001:] What's going on, are they going to tell us to stop or what [LAUGHTER]?
[speaker002:] I don't know, I hope so.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] Come on, come on.
[speaker001:] Isn't it five minutes?
[speaker002:] I don't know.
[speaker001:] I, I mean, I'm all talked out about gardens.
[speaker002:] I know. Well, we can talk about something else. It's just a suggested topic.
[speaker001:] Oh, oh, it's just suggested?
[speaker002:] So, how's the baby, do you think [LAUGHTER]?
[speaker001:] What?
[speaker002:] How's the,
[speaker001:] We could talk,
[speaker002:] Let's talk about the baby.
[speaker001:] Let's talk about the baby.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].

[speaker001:] well the topic's about government um I'm not altogether sure that that's my best topic um
[speaker002:] I thought it was kind of a strange topic about corruption in the government and um how many people are self-serving
[speaker001:] yeah um-hum
[speaker002:] I mean that you I I think people tend to think that the government is not corrupt and that people aren't self-serving
[speaker001:] um-hum uh-huh um-hum
[speaker002:] I mean that's what I would like to think
[speaker001:] yeah I I I think that the last uh part of that question was particularly interesting um about um uh uh can all unethical behavior or how much unethical behavior can be made illegal
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] uh because it it it seems to me that when uh government or public service of any kind degenerates so much that you have to have so many explicit ethical codes um parallel to the legal codes that uh we're focusing on the wrong thing maybe
[speaker002:] um-hum um-hum yeah
[speaker001:] maybe maybe that's what is happening maybe so many things have become public with the media over the past you know ten to twenty years that uh
[speaker002:] right
[speaker001:] it becomes more evident perhaps things that we didn't think of before and just concentrated on the lawmaking or the results that would be seen in public works or bills that are passed or you know etcetera like that and we
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] we're just not exposed to the personal lives of these persons and I couldn't help thinking when that last question it was a funny question when that last part of the question came about how how many
[speaker002:] um-hum um-hum
[speaker001:] things can we um actually put a legal code on that um uh how how much um
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] should it be our uh prerogative to see into the private lives of these people you know um
[speaker002:] yeah yeah that makes sense because you pry start prying in people's private lives you ruin their lives as well as and sometimes you know I don't even know how much of a difference it really makes you know I mean I guess in some cases sure we care about what they did in the past but uh
[speaker001:] that's right yeah um-hum
[speaker002:] sometimes I don't know it I think it gets in the way of the better judgement I mean just because he did something in his past doesn't mean he's not a good enough person to be a politician
[speaker001:] um-hum I I I agree with that and um and also that if the results that they are putting out and what they actually seem to be accomplishing by legitimate means is what's
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] you know going to the public then um
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] then they'll pay for their private life in their own private conscience and uh uh you know when it becomes public though it becomes scandalous
[speaker002:] that's right um-hum yeah
[speaker001:] the the that's that's the thing that um it it things that
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] you don't know uh do do do not worm their way around then and influence other people or perhaps lead other people astray people could say oh they do it so I guess you know but as soon as things do get public
[speaker002:] um-hum yeah um-hum
[speaker001:] um there there is that terrible concern so sometimes I ask myself what are um people doing that are in the media
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] when somebody you know comes up to office it seems that one of the first thing that's done is to dig up any kind of a thing they can on them and get it all over the headlines
[speaker002:] um-hum oh yeah it's I guess it's what sells newspapers you know
[speaker001:] it's a very low way of living um so and and and and as far as um
[speaker002:] um um-hum um-hum um-hum
[speaker001:] you know myself having any particular personal uh knowledge or insight into politics or politicians it I'm not terribly involved in it just in a very cursory way I vote and I you know try to do whatever I can on a little local area but I I it it just is not one of the things that I have uh placed um
[speaker002:] um-hum right hm
[speaker001:] and uh a lot of my particular time and effort into so I I always feel very
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] outside this kind of um this kind of an issue but um um
[speaker002:] um-hum yeah I'm kind of the same way I just kind of read the paper follow-up on people I mean just you know keep an eye on what's going on but I don't really play an active role in any kind of politics
[speaker001:] yeah um-hum um-hum yeah right yeah uh um um-hum I'm not I'm not in there I'm not one of those uh you know volunteers that's there at headquarters and whatever um although I admire the people that do that and they certainly do get inside information and um of course the better you know a person that might be affiliated with that kind of thing
[speaker002:] um-hum right um-hum
[speaker001:] the more you can trust their their judgment and their insight but the media insight as you said I just kind of read and
[speaker002:] right um-hum
[speaker001:] kind of be aware and then uh I don't like to make a whole lot of um judgment my myself unless things are so absolutely out of whack that uh
[speaker002:] yeah yeah yeah

[speaker001:] I'm actually at work.
[speaker002:] Oh, o-, [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] I-, I'm in facilities and happen to have, uh, weekend duty here.
[speaker002:] Oh, okay. What building do you work in?
[speaker001:] I'm in the South Building.
[speaker002:] Oh, okay. Okay.
[speaker001:] We, we pull mostly evenings. We are having, there's three of us, uh, facilities' managers are covering the off shifts. Just to have somebody here, uh, from management to, uh, see if they need anything.
[speaker002:] Oh, okay. Okay.
[speaker001:] Oh, the, how many calls have you made?
[speaker002:] I've only made a few.
[speaker001:] Okay.
[speaker002:] Um,
[speaker001:] I'm, uh, getting close to twenty. This is the, yeah, hopefully you have a lot to talk about in this one, but I don't really have a lot in this one. Usually I can talk for hours on most of the subjects they pick.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Go ahead, you first [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Okay, our topic for today is invasion of privacy. So, I got a good one.
[speaker001:] Okay, good.
[speaker002:] When the phone rings and you've got a recording, and this always happens like around five or six o'clock,
[speaker001:] Okay, yeah.
[speaker002:] at night. It rings and you get this recording and then it won't go away and any, any of the type of solicitation that, where they call all the time, you know. There are evenings especially Friday nights, Thursday and Friday nights. Well, we must get in the neighborhood of anywhere from three to six calls about that time of night. More people call, that's where you want to jerk the phone out of the wall, you know, your sitting down to eat and the phone rings and,
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] it's like, I don't want anything, thank you very much [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Yeah, I, the worst one, I guess, is like you, when it's a recording. I thin-, I don't mind so much someone calls and it's a, and it's a salesperson, at least you can chat or whatever and say, okay, now, we want to go [NOISE], and then when, when they actually start off with a, a computer,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and expect you to talk to a computer, uh, that's where I draw the lin-, I just hang up immediately, you know.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh. Oh, yeah.
[speaker001:] Uh, shut my other radio off here [NOISE].
[speaker002:] Yeah, that's, that's real irritating to me.
[speaker001:] Uh, I guess they get their name-, I'm, I'm amazed the question about that the, my concern would be everyone seems to have an answering machine and I have one too,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and they say that they can tie up your answering machine and just have a big long, if they catch your answering machine,
[speaker002:] They can leave their whole spiel on it.
[speaker001:] Yeah, they, they can erase all your others, you know, because if you have, I think that's the way it is, no, mine, I guess, if it's full, it will not take it, I'm not sure. But they can certainly, uh, block your answering machine so someone else calls you, uh, and your answering machine is full, you know,
[speaker002:] Huh.
[speaker001:] it won't erase.
[speaker002:] Yeah I,
[speaker001:] But your right. *your -] you're That was a good one.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] yeah, that's, that's a high irritant for me. Drives me crazy. And it doesn't matter if you have an unlisted number or not because a lot of times these computer things will just make up numbers at random and just call them.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And so it really, really doesn't make much difference as to whether or not, you know, you have a unlisted number or not. And they pass around, uh, cards that have everybody's name on it. Like if you order something through a mail order catalog,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] you know, then you'll start getting a bunch of stuff in. And a bunch of stuff and a bunch of stuff because they sell their customer list, or they sell their catalog list of people,
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] to different companies and everything.
[speaker001:] I've got one, it's not really an invasion of privacy * 2 slash units? but it's, uh, annoyance for me in the office with, uh, speaker phones. You know, I, the-, they're great for an office but this one guy next to me, who's not here just so I could talk about him,
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] he uses his speaker phone all the time, and it carries over and so not only would you hear, it seems to me that you talk longer from wh-, you kind of yell into it.
[speaker002:] Right. Right.
[speaker001:] Uh, and so he yells into it, and you hear the other person too, so it's kind of a double annoyance. He actually, uh, ruins my privacy you might say because the, the T I offices are so open anyway.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh, uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Uh, that I'm amazed that, the fact that I'm about ready to say something, uh, if he's even thought of that that's a real uncourteous thing, an, an invasion of everyone else's time and, and concentration to just be loud. I don't know whether that's an invasion of privacy just being loud and, and annoying, you know. Uh, that's,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] perhaps not quite an invasion of privacy but I think it is, and yo-, we both picked phone items there.
[speaker002:] Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.
[speaker001:] Go ahead, do you have any more? * Seems to be 2 slash units
[speaker002:] Let's see, I'm trying to think. Oh, have you heard that, that, I'm trying to think of what company it was, there was a company that was going to, uh, be giving out information about your financial status.
[speaker001:] Oh, yeah, that's, that's a good one too. Yeah, * Shouldn't that "yeah" be an indep. slash unit?
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] I heard something about, not that exactly, but go ahead.
[speaker002:] Well, um, I work in the computer science center and so we hear a lot about things that are, that computers are capable of doing.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] And, uh, this was a software program that a company was developing that was going to have X amount of million peoples financial history and information on it. And they were going to sell it to companies who would up in turn solicit you for business et cetera, et cetera.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And, uh, they finally, uh, stopped production of it because of all the hullabaloo it caused,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] because it was such a big deal. And I wouldn't have been too thrilled about it either. I mean, there was a lot of stuff going on about it.
[speaker001:] Well, I, uh, heard something similar to that. I listen to, I'm a, uh, uh, talk show person. And there was,
[speaker002:] Okay.
[speaker001:] when I, when I do my chores up at the rad-, I'm a radio person I guess is what I mean.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] And so I listened to, was it five seventy, which has continuous talk on the weekends,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and Neil Sperry and everybody, I mean, the lawyers and veterinarians and all that. And, uh, I don't know if it was a lawyer or whatever it was talking about when you make out a fin-, a financial application, all that information on there is really not necessarily, even a, your Social Security number, you know, they,
[speaker002:] Huh.
[speaker001:] you should just put down the basics and put N A, where you don't want to answer.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Whether it's your personal salary or whatever. Uh, if your just making out a credit card application you don't need to put down and I was curious as to w-, you know, what specific things you, you did have to put down.
[speaker002:] Huh.
[speaker001:] But he says Social Security, you don't need to put that down there. Which I thought was surprising. So maybe there's something along that same line where, you know, in all these financial, uh, applications that you make out, you don't have to put all that stuff down there. It would be nice to know what's, what was, of course, of course, they could say, well, I can't give you a card, and you could say, fine, but, you know, some things will be private, you know, but he said just put N A and he said usually you'll get approved anyway because they just want your money [LAUGHTER], they want your card.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] But if you don't feel like putting it down, just put N A, you know.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh. Well, that's real interesting. I know that a lot of times they ask for information that they don't really need,
[speaker001:] Yeah, yeah.
[speaker002:] on several things and, you know, your credit ap and th-, all, all they ever need you to do is give them permission to, to pull a credit thing on, on yourself and there it is. That's all they really care about.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] They just want that credit history to see if you're a person. If you're going to go ahead and pay your bills on time and things like that.
[speaker001:] I haven't, I don't have any friends down at the, the Austin plant, but I heard that they were really upset about the drug thing, and we seem to up here have just breezed through that and apparently some other companies are having trouble that, I don't have any trouble with it. Uh, it's kind of unusual here we are in Dallas, you know, the biggest location and, and it just breezed through and wasn't really, no one was, I guess, was really too concerned about it, uh, yet in Austin, there, there were, whether it was a class action or how far it got, I don't really know because T I only had a few things on T I NEWS I think about it,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] that they were objecting to but the, some people object to that which I don't mind, no problem at all, you know.
[speaker002:] Oh, I know that there's several people I've talked to that really have a problem with it and,
[speaker001:] Huh.
[speaker002:] I'm former military so you get kind of used to,
[speaker001:] Yeah, right.
[speaker002:] to going through stuff like that. You know, you don't pay any attention to it. I mean,
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] once you sign over your soul to Uncle Sam,
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER], you know, you just kind of,
[speaker001:] I know.
[speaker002:] kind of blow it off but [LAUGHTER],
[speaker001:] I know, yeah. I served my time too, yeah.
[speaker002:] So, I think, I think the people who have, who have been down that route or have had it, to deal with anything like that have learned, you know, it's just one of those things. You just do it and be done with it and don't worry about it.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] But I do know that there are several sites. I didn't, I wasn't aware that Austin was one of them, but I think Johnson City was one.
[speaker001:] Oh, did they object too?
[speaker002:] Yeah, there's, there's several of the cities that have been having real trouble with the issue.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And the, but also on things that I'd heard too from a stockholders meeting was that there were people, uh, there were, the same places where they had a real bad problem with people fighting it were also places they had a big bad problem with the drug usage too.
[speaker001:] Yeah, well, I'm, I'm all for it. I, uh, it doesn't bother me that whether they do it in high schools or, you know, carry it to wherever you want to carry it really, uh,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] uh, of course, that would really be a big thing in a public school but, uh, I'm saying certainly at work I have no problem with it. Uh, uh, and I think it is, they, they found that it's been very low really.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] I guess maybe at the locations though, I don't know if they have it done but, done it by location. I don't really know if, uh, they need to publish that really.
[speaker002:] Oh, I don't think it's a necessary thing to publish it they just need to deal with it and,, on an individual basis.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] I mean,
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] if they're going to do it, just deal with it and,
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] be done with it.
[speaker001:] But I think that was an actu-, actually a good thing that happened, uh, I never considered it, I guess, it's an invasion of your privacy but it's something that is for the good of so many people, you know, to,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] have everyone, uh, take the test right away and, uh, and hopefully, maybe some people will convince other people that are on drugs that, well, uh, I might as well get off, you know, if I want to stay so, you know,
[speaker002:] Oh, I,
[speaker001:] if that was an invasion of privacy maybe it was good.
[speaker002:] Oh, I think it's a safety factor too because, you know, when people are inebriated, whether it's alcohol or drugs or whatever, they are very unsafe for the, their co-workers, you know,
[speaker001:] Oh, sure.
[speaker002:] it's like, you know, my father was a fireman and I can just imagine if, you know, [LAUGHTER], you know, some guy being on drugs they go there and,
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] and, you know, you've got somebody that's supposed to take care of you and they fall, they fall out because of the drug issue,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] you know. I mean you can forgive somebody because all of a sudden they maybe get hurt or whatever that, that you can understand * Seems that there should be a slash after 'you know' but the use of drugs or anything like that,
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] will, uh, be a problem.
[speaker001:] Go ahead, you got me more, I, * 2 slash units? this is, this is a tough one, I don't, really haven't thought about any of this.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] They had gardening yesterday and all the repairs, and, boy, I could,

[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Uh, the only work I do outside the home is I am an Avon representative.
[speaker002:] Oh, okay.
[speaker001:] And I sell family products.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] And, uh,
[speaker002:] Do you,
[speaker001:] So I, I don't really, I don't really dress up a whole lot. Do you work outside?
[speaker002:] Well, I, I work, uh, I'm a C P A and I do contract work.
[speaker001:] Oh, uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And so, and I work with another C P A who just started his own practice
[speaker001:] Oh.
[speaker002:] and I work with him a couple days a week
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] and so when I go to his office or to other clients' offices, then I'll dress up
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] but otherwise it's great being at home
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] in jeans or shorts or whatever [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Uh-huh, uh-huh.
[speaker002:] So that, that makes it pretty nice. It's
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] kind of weird because before I used to work, you know, full time and, and, uh, it seemed like I was wearing a suit every day, just about.
[speaker001:] Well, you'd have to dress differently when you're working every day, I think.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] Right, and so it's, uh, some of my suits I haven't put on for [LAUGHTER] quite a
[speaker001:] Uh-huh, uh-huh.
[speaker002:] while.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] So it's,
[speaker001:] It's kind of nice to relax a little bit.
[speaker002:] It's, it's very nice.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] Gosh,
[speaker001:] Well, my, my dress up, I live out in the country also so
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] what I wear depends on the weather.
[speaker002:] Sure.
[speaker001:] Uh, so I really, I know a lot of the Avon representatives are portrayed as being very dressed up.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] But, I mostly dress, I try to dress nice, but for convenience, because when the weather's bad, when I go into the home I take off my shoes
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] [Lipsmack] which I try to wear something easy to take off, you know
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] and put on. And I don't too often take off my coat even, so, uh, I really don't have to dress up like y-, you would, like if you're in an office or something.
[speaker002:] Yeah, yeah. Well, I imagine that where you live, uh, you're in warm clothing quite a bit of the year.
[speaker001:] Uh, well, not actually because
[speaker002:] Not really?
[speaker001:] we really only have maybe three, four months of, I'd say warm weather.
[speaker002:] Oh, is that right?
[speaker001:] Yeah, and the rest is, uh, gets into the cooler weather.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh. Course, they keep saying the weather's going to change and we're going to have more Florida type weather up here [LAUGHTER], so I
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] don't know. But for now,
[speaker002:] So you all are waiting for that [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] But for now, we have a lot of ice and snow in the wintertime and, uh, cold weather.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] And that type of thing.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Now, my daughter works all the time, so she dresses. I think, you know, you have to spend more money on your clothing, and that
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] because you do have to have the appearance, a good appearance to do a good job
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] where you work.
[speaker002:] Yeah. Well, down here it's sunny most of the time.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And, uh, usually warm. I mean, we had a few cool days, uh, this month, but not anything, I'm sure, compared to what you've had so far.
[speaker001:] Um, uh-huh.
[speaker002:] So, I mean people are still wearing shorts and
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] and, uh, usually around Halloween it starts getting cooler, so
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] you start
[speaker001:] Uh-huh, uh-huh.
[speaker002:] you know, breaking out a coat
[speaker001:] Right, yeah.
[speaker002:] at that time, but, that, that lasts, you know, for a few months [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Did you find you wore, uh, slacks when you were working full time or did you
[speaker002:] No.
[speaker001:] did they wear more dresses and skirts.
[speaker002:] No, never wore slacks.
[speaker001:] No slacks.
[speaker002:] It was, I think it was one of those things where, it's not like someone came out and said you can't wear them.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] It was one of those understood things
[speaker001:] Uh-huh, uh-huh.
[speaker002:] that you just, you know, either wore, you know, a dress or,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh. Not even a dressy slack, a dressy suit, slack suit even
[speaker002:] Not,
[speaker001:] if it's all,
[speaker002:] No, not, not with what I did. Uh,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Most people didn't.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Sometimes, like the secretaries might
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] but even then you didn't see them wearing slacks too much. And I really, you know, there's some nice pantsuits out and
[speaker001:] Uh-huh, uh-huh.
[speaker002:] and I wouldn't have mind-, minded, you know, wearing those
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] especially when it gets pretty cold.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh, uh-huh.
[speaker002:] [Lipsmack] But, uh,
[speaker001:] I know my daughter mostly, I don't think she ever wears slacks
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] to work. But I didn't know if the trend changes, you know, if, uh,
[speaker002:] You know, I think it's one of those things where it's not viewed upon as being professional. I guess they
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] expect women to be in skirts [LAUGHTER]
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] or dresses.
[speaker001:] Look more like a woman, huh [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Yeah [LAUGHTER]. That's right [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Uh-huh, uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And it's the men that make the rules [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Uh, well, then you, you, you know why they make them then [LAUGHTER],
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] that way.
[speaker002:] But, no, we usually, you know, skirt and, skirt and blouse or suit or dress
[speaker001:] Uh-huh, uh-huh.
[speaker002:] is what you see down here. So it's nice with me working at home because I can wear pants.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] No, no one can see me
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] unless I'm, you know, g-,
[speaker001:] But, yet, you need to keep up an appearance for your husband, too, though
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] at home.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Because that's, I, I believe,
[speaker002:] But, I'm not going to put a skirt on just for him [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Oh, you don't think you will, huh [LAUGHTER]?
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Well, you'll be excused because considering everything [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Yeah, I think that the main issue at home
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] is being comfortable
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] in your clothing [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] But I, I look at homemaking as a job also.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] Uh, being a homemaker and I, I think sometimes we lose sight [LAUGHTER] of that.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Uh, by the fact that we don't sometimes watch our dress,

[speaker001:] [TV] Uh, well what would you say your opinion is on gun control?
[speaker002:] Well, I don't know. I've, I've had mixed emotions, I guess, when I listen to, uh, the radio and, and watch T V about the different, uh, things that are happening. Uh, I'm against it but on the same token, uh, I went out and purchased a gun just because I wanted the right to do that [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Ye-,
[speaker002:] So I, I have a rifle in the house. Uh, the ammunition is probably so old I'm afraid to use it. But, uh, I bought it for target practicing and, uh, and also because I wanted a weapon. Uh, how do you feel about it?
[speaker001:] Well, I think, uh, down here in Texas they don't have a waiting period on handguns.
[speaker002:] Huh.
[speaker001:] And, I think they need that. Uh, and I do have a, I have a pistol. It's a little twenty-two and I have a twenty-two or a twelve gauge shotgun.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] An-, you know, I do like to have my guns.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Uh, I don't know if I'll ever use it, you know. And like you, my bullets to my little pistol's probably, uh, about three years old [sniffing] [child]. Uh, my gun hasn't been shot in a year or two.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] [Swallowing] But, uh, I like to have them where [child crying] handy.
[speaker002:] Well, up, uh, up in New England where I'm from, uh, you had to get a permit before you could buy any amu-, am-, ammunition. And I thought that was really good. And I think if they, uh,
[speaker001:] [Child talking].
[speaker002:] takes two weeks for that system to process, uh, your request for, uh, not as a gun permit but, uh, but to buy ammunition. You have to get a permit from the police station in your local area to do that.
[speaker001:] [Child talking] I've never heard of anything like that.
[speaker002:] Yeah. Uh,
[speaker001:] [Child talking] That would be nice. But,
[speaker002:] [Snorting].
[speaker001:] [Child crying] a-, you know, the criminals that are going to get their guns one
[speaker002:] I
[speaker001:] way or the other.
[speaker002:] I, I agree. I think, you know, one of the things that, that, that needs to happen is, uh, to, to stop the impulse buyer from, uh, buying it quickly and, and, uh,
[speaker001:] [Child crying].
[speaker002:] maybe putting a week's waiting period or something on it. But if someone's really determined to, to pick up a firearm [inhaling] you can pick it up any place.
[speaker001:] Yeah [child].
[speaker002:] And you can get them really cheap.
[speaker001:] I know I, I had a waiting period on my pistol because I was down in, uh, Tennessee.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] And, uh, they had a waiting period and, uh, we bought it there. And,
[speaker002:] How long was the waiting period out there?
[speaker001:] About nine days.
[speaker002:] Huh. That wasn't too, too bad.
[speaker001:] No. No [child crying].
[speaker002:] Because if, if you're going to go buy something, uh, uh, of that nature, I think you, you're going to have some idea as to what you're going to do with it. You're not going to react that quickly. In other words, you know, you don't have a need to go buy a gun to go shoot it the next day.
[speaker001:] Th-, somebody wants to do that, I, I, at times I think they ought to have a waiting period on all firearms.
[speaker002:] Yeah. I do too. Uh, because [LAUGHTER] it doesn't make any difference, uh, uh, whether it's a pistol or a shotgun, I suppose. They both do the same kind of job.
[speaker001:] [Dishes] A shotgun hurts worse than a pistol does.
[speaker002:] Uh, yeah. I suppose. I never got shot with either one. But I don't know, uh, I think you could recover from a pistol but not from a shotgun [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] No, a shotgun's got too much of a spread. Or at
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] least ours does. Uh, it's, you know, you have a little, uh, thing on the bo-, bottom of th-, on top of the barrel
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] where you, you turn it, you can make it either tight or [LAUGHTER] as loose as loose can get.
[speaker002:] Oh.
[speaker001:] And the spread changes.
[speaker002:] Uh, [throat clearing] I've got a manual single shot and I guess it doesn't have any, any automatic features to it. The further away I get, the, the, uh, wider the shot gets
[speaker001:] [Child talking] Yeah.
[speaker002:] from the target. And the closer that I get, the tighter that it gets. It's got a hell of a kick to it.
[speaker001:] Yeah. My husband had a, uh, a police gun at one time. And I shot [child crying] that thing one time. Almost knocked me down.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] And it just a li-, I don-, I forget, I think it was a three fifty-seven. I'm not sure.
[speaker002:] Do you belong to a gun club or you?
[speaker001:] He belonged to one awhile back. Uh, since we moved, we've only been here in Texas for about a year [dishes]
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and, uh, we can't even find a place to shoot. Just for
[speaker002:] No kidding.
[speaker001:] target practice. I'd love to get used to that shotgun. We traded his pistol for that shotgun.
[speaker002:] Huh. Well the, the, uh, clubs that we've got around here are kind of expensive but, uh, it's well worth it. You can go down and shoot up against a sand bag and some targets and have, uh, competition. Uh, I've never really joined a club because I haven't got the time. Not because I haven't got the desire. Uh, there's an annual membership fee, uh, that's, that's fairly high. Plus there's ini-, an initiation fee that you have to pay because of first time, uh, uh, member.
[speaker001:] [Child].
[speaker002:] So the whole process can cost you a hundred fifty dollars to join the club. Plus you have to pay for the, the ammunition in any tournaments that you would join in.
[speaker001:] Yeah. Well, that's what my husband, when he was in that gun club where he was doing that [NOISE] [can't tell if it's a cough or something was hit]. It, you know, he went mostly just to, uh, shoot at paper targets.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Uh, but, you know, they used speed and accuracy and all that.
[speaker002:] I think that, that the gun clubs serve a useful purpose. In fact, I'd like to see somehow they tie the legislation into not only when you buy a weapon you have to, uh, show that you've gone to school or gone to some class to know how to handle that weapon.
[speaker001:] That's a good, I've never thought of that.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] That's a good point.
[speaker002:] And, you know, it, it, even after you wait your nine days, if you don't know how to handle it, it's just like putting someone in an automobile that doesn't know how to drive. And you give him a license because he waited nine days.
[speaker001:] Yeah. That's, and, [pause] yeah.
[speaker002:] He could, he could not only, uh, uh, shoot himself. He could, he could, uh, mishandle a weapon. Leave it at home and let a child get at it.
[speaker001:] It, well we, uh, we was living on a navy base down in Memphis and, uh, this one guy decided to play, uh, lonesome cowboy or something. And he was twirling his gun around and shot himself in his foot.
[speaker002:] Wow. He was fortunate. He could, [LAUGHTER] he could of hit something else [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Well, he went tumbling down the steps along with, uh, shooting his foot almost off. He broke his leg and
[speaker002:] Wow.
[speaker001:] collar bone and a couple of other things I'm sure, being,
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Mister Cowboy. I can't remember what the na-, the term was going around. It was about four or five years ago.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] But. Now, I guess that would be a good idea [NOISE] [child].
[speaker002:] About, uh, private citizens selling a weapons? Like if you wanted to sell your pistol to me. How do you feel about that? Do you believe there ought to be legislation guiding the, uh, buyer and the seller? And, or do you believe that you ought to be able to sell your system, uh,
[speaker001:] [Squeak].
[speaker002:] because you own it?
[speaker001:] Uh, that's a hard one because we did that. But, uh, I think there ought to be some rule against it. I'll, uh, you know, the person who sells the gun ought to protect themselves because if that gun's registered to them and somebody else uses that gun in something, the cops are going to come to you.
[speaker002:] Yeah. I-, isn't
[speaker001:] Uh,
[speaker002:] there a way to, uh, to deregister yourself after you register a gun?
[speaker001:] I have no idea. I've only
[speaker002:] Because I
[speaker001:] had one gun and I've kept it, {D you
[speaker002:] have,
[speaker001:] know, } the one gun that was in my name.
[speaker002:] Yeah. Is it registered?
[speaker001:] Yeah. I-,
[speaker002:] The, uh, the rifle that I've got is not registered,
[speaker001:] [Noise].
[speaker002:] and, uh, I don't know why I never registered it but the, uh,
[speaker001:] I don't think you have to register a shotgun [squeak].
[speaker002:] [Noise] Um, I, I think it's, it's voluntary [rustling]. The, uh, the,
[speaker001:] Well, see, uh, my husband has a thing. If they go to, uh, regulating, uh, [sniffing] all right, uh, banning guns. Pri-, pri-, pri-, private cit-, citizens
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] this, my kid is jumping on me. I can't hardly talk.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] My husband feels that they'll come and collect everybody's guns.
[speaker002:] Yeah. I guess that could happen. It's just like the, uh, the social security system [NOISE]. Once they, uh, they gave everybody a number and now they're making you, uh, uh, get one at, at birth.
[speaker001:] [Clanging].
[speaker002:] And
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] once they have your number, they have your identification. And if you try to do anything, uh, like, uh, not identify yourself to the government, they know who you are.
[speaker001:] [Swallowing] Yeah. And everything about you.
[speaker002:] And, that's true [LAUGHTER] [NOISE].
[speaker001:] Uh, I, bu-, bu-, you know, they know so, how much money you make a week to, uh, probably your, uh, my kid is banging. I was seeing what they was banging on. Uh, I've lost my train of thought. I'm sorry [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] That's all right. You, you were talking about, uh, uh,
[speaker001:] Oh, the Soc-,
[speaker002:] Fed-, what the Federal government knows about people.
[speaker001:] Yeah. They, they probably know everything from, half the time wh-, ho-, what time you go to the bathroom.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] They probably do.
[speaker001:] No, that's that's a little bit extreme. But they could know anything and everything about you. And, uh, I'd like to have my gun. If they go to banding, banning them, I'd lose my gun but we wouldn't lose our pis-, our, uh, shotgun.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] And, uh, we're wanting to get a couple of more that no one knows about.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] But I don't, I don't, uh [ringing],
[speaker002:] Do you find it difficult picking up, uh, guns that, that are not registered?
[speaker001:] No.
[speaker002:] No. I don't either. I can, I can buy some, uh, today if I wanted to. Just
[speaker001:] Yeah. W-,
[speaker002:] you know, put up the money.
[speaker001:] Yeah. Well, you can look in the, uh, the, we got a thing down here called A SHOPPER.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] It's a, a ho-, it's a, it's a bargain thing. Uh, you go and ever-, you know, always see guns in there.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Five to seven guns a day. It comes out every Tuesday.
[speaker002:] And there's, there's no waiting period on that.
[speaker001:] No. None whatsoever [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] You call, we sold a refrigerator through it and it took us all of twelve hours.
[speaker002:] To sell the refrigerator?
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] You know. And I'm sure it'd be even less for somebody with a good gun.
[speaker002:] Huh. And I think the Federal government is, uh, is really far away from, uh, uh, control. I, I don't believe in, uh, I'm s-, I shouldn't probably say control. I mean regulation. Control is something that I wouldn't want the Federal government to have. Uh, but I would like to see them have a monitoring capability so that they know who has what weapons.
[speaker001:] Yeah. Well, I agree with you there. They do have too much control over us already.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Uh, we could look at our paychecks and see how much control they have.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] Unfortunately, we, uh, we vote for the, the people who spend the money, so I can't complain too much.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Yeah, I guess so. I don't know. They're [TV] [child] [clanging],

[speaker001:] uh so I uh weight train uh three days on and one day off
[speaker002:] uh so what do you do to exercise um-hum
[speaker001:] I uh ride bicycles um fifteen twenty miles I don't know maybe three times maybe four times a week I play basketball uh couple times a week I play softball one night a week
[speaker002:] hm
[speaker001:] uh that's what I do what about yourself
[speaker002:] hm that's pretty impressive um I guess I bicycle uh the amount varies as much as a hundred fifty miles a week um
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] I guess I play softball one night a week and I backpack a lot over the summer
[speaker001:] oh really
[speaker002:] yeah that's that's about the extent of it I mean I don't do any of those things particularly you know for exercise but um I guess the bicycling is the one thing I'll sort of like do if I feel like I need to go exercise um but I do it mostly for fun
[speaker001:] yeah what um what do you ride uh like bunch of hills or flat pretty flat
[speaker002:] it it it varies uh out near my house is pretty hilly um but sometimes I bike to work which is about um a fifteen mile trip each way and that's mostly flat
[speaker001:] how long does that take you to get to work
[speaker002:] about forty five fifty minutes
[speaker001:] how does how does that work work out with uh storing your bike and showering and all that
[speaker002:] yeah it can be a pain um basically uh I work on a campus so I can store my bike in my office and walk across the uh campus to the uh gym use the shower there uh but it's it's enough of a pain that
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] I did it consistently one year I would commute everyday um but it just became such a pain I mean we were talking you know forty five or fifty minutes for biking um and sometimes longer if you had adverse wind
[speaker001:] right
[speaker002:] and then another half an hour you know to cool down and take a shower and all this kind of stuff it was a big hunk of well hunk of the day um and then of course another hour to get back home um so I've been doing that less and and concentrating more on you know light biking when I get home on the evening and then you know some more on the weekends
[speaker001:] yeah do you ride a lot of rallies are lot of those around there
[speaker002:] not so much um I guess mostly I bike on my own I've got a touring bike
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] um though I haven't gone on any extended trips with it how about you what kind of biking do you do
[speaker001:] uh well actually my wife just got me into it and I did a did an internship at the Institute for Aerobics Research in Dallas at Cooper Clinic and I learned all the health benefits of
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] I you know I was a solid weight trainer and all I did was weights and anaerobic exercise and then my wife got me into the aerobic exercise said you really need to do it so
[speaker002:] um-hum um-hum
[speaker001:] once I got into this uh internship I learned all the physiological advantages advantages advantages to it so I began a program couple I don't know probably three or four weeks ago and I did my first bike rally this Saturday I did uh forty forty miles
[speaker002:] hm
[speaker001:] and uh that's the longest I've ever ridden so far I usually you know fifteen or twenty and it was it was kind of hilly and it was pretty tough but
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] uh I'm looking at uh doing a lot more of it because you know my wife is really into it and I I kind of
[speaker002:] oh I see
[speaker001:] held her back a little bit this this weekend she wanted to go go go but you know she wanted to stay with me
[speaker002:] um-hum it's good to have a partner
[speaker001:] yeah it really is
[speaker002:] are you you thinking of doing any like centuries or
[speaker001:] yeah that'd be cool sometime if I could you know work up to that
[speaker002:] um-hum yeah I just wondered if you're were gonna do that mostly or more like you know uh um uh touring like from Vermont or you know that kind of thing I mean people seem to get into different aspects one is more of a distance and one's more just you know they wanna
[speaker001:] oh
[speaker002:] put some equipment on their bike and go for a tour
[speaker001:] I've never really looked into that that you know that's my wife would just love that and I may do that sometime there again I'm just kind of a fledgling into this
[speaker002:] um-hum um-hum
[speaker001:] I've it's kind of funny I'd called this number and I just reading through a a bicycle magazine and going through all the different tours coming up I mean around Texas you got
[speaker002:] yeah yeah
[speaker001:] you got about five or six different if you live around the Dallas area you got five or six every weekend to choose from because they're really into it
[speaker002:] oh that's nice hm
[speaker001:] bicycling's really big here I didn't know that and you know till I came down here and just kind of caught the fever because I lived in Indiana all my life and
[speaker002:] wow yeah
[speaker001:] you know you may say one see one or two guys on a bicycle that are above the age of fifteen or something but other than that it's nothing up there like it is down here
[speaker002:] um-hum yeah I'm not sure why that is I mean generally in the midwest it seems to be less much less I mean maybe it's because of the winters
[speaker001:] probably
[speaker002:] uh or maybe just because you know there's there's a lot more flat lands you know out in the west so it makes biking a better alternative for transportation
[speaker001:] yeah yeah and there's a lot of bikers around here it's it's really neat
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] there are a lot of a lot of resources lot of magazines and stuff little Texas Bicyclist is like a newspaper that comes out every month
[speaker002:] hm
[speaker001:] and it's free you just go to the bike shock bike bike shop and pick it up and it's got all the rides coming up so I guess I'm gonna be busy about every Saturday this summer going to a different ride yeah see a little bit of Texas I've never seen before
[speaker002:] oh that's terrific um-hum
[speaker001:] so uh how long have you been biking
[speaker002:] oh I guess as an adult for just about the past uh three years or so um you know I guess the last time I did it before that was college which was about ten years ago and uh yeah I guess I just never really thought about it much for a while um
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] until I suddenly disevered all my friends were basically biking a lot and so I thought I'd try it too
[speaker001:] have you ever had a uh it's kind of slightly off the subject but you ever had a uh a blood work up done recently or since you been biking to see if it because it really
[speaker002:] no I haven't no
[speaker001:] from what I understand it really improves your uh cholesterol and and you know it uh it kind of knocks you down two uh the big risk categories for coronary artery disease which is uh
[speaker002:] hm
[speaker001:] uh low cardiovascular fitness and also uh you know the cholesterol it gives you uh increased HDLs and decreases your LDLs yeah so
[speaker002:] um-hum oh that's great yeah I've I've definitely noticed it's had a good effect on my pulse rate my resting pulse you know it gets it down to about forty yeah
[speaker001:] yeah really that's good
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] you say you ride about a hundred hundred fifty miles a week man that's that's hard core when do you get to begin with the winters and all that
[speaker002:] yeah on average yeah
[speaker001:] or what time of the year do you usually embark on your do you ride inside if you can't ride outside
[speaker002:] no I'm not that hard-core I mean there are some people in fact there are a lot of people who'll ride outside in the snow they've got a uh mountain bike you know with the big knobby tires
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] and I don't do that I basically I I pretty much lay off for the winter uh-hum I was thinking of getting rollers for the last winter you know because it'll help your balance when you're indoor training
[speaker001:] hm
[speaker002:] um but but I just you know more or less stuck to like an exercise bike and that kind of thing um but yeah I mean winters are kind of a problem so I'm more or less out of shape now that I've been biking I guess this year for just a couple of weeks
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] um but you know up here it's it's only stopped snowing since then uh
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] but yeah it's it's it's it's pretty good it's uh the main the main thing I guess for me is just to enjoy it because once it starts seeming like you know exercise and a chore I'll lay off of it more
[speaker001:] right so you uh change up your routes a lot and keep a
[speaker002:] oh yeah yeah I try to go someplace pretty different you know every week I rotate around um about four different routes um from my house or I'll sometimes come in to school it's nice coming it's nice it's nice riding to school because it's all along a canal path um because it's just it's along the Erie Canal up here uh University of Rochester
[speaker001:] so what school is it oh okay yeah
[speaker002:] so that's fairly picturesque and uh so it's it's it's a good ride as long as you're not doing it everyday it's a good ride
[speaker001:] yeah yeah that's true sounds neat it's kind of I was wondering if I was gonna
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] talk with someone that never has exercised before and doesn't want to and everything else but got a guy that rides a hundred and fifty miles a week that's something motivating
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] that's really good well
[speaker002:] well it was good talking to you
[speaker001:] good talking to you and keep up the good work all right take care bye
[speaker002:] okay you too bye

[speaker001:] so how do you feel about the Vietnam War
[speaker002:] well um you know I guess that it's pretty deep feelings uh I just uh went back and rented uh the movie what is it Good Morning Vietnam
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] and uh got that uh uh some insight there to to kind of help me put together the feelings I really appreciated the the little uh
[speaker001:] yeah I saw that as well
[speaker002:] English class where the uh the uh fellow just wouldn't do anything you know the guy's gouging gouging your eyes out what are you going to do you know wait for him to finish me off
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] and uh it it was uh good to remember the uh that that kind of Asian philosophy
[speaker001:] um-hum well uh were you over in Vietnam or
[speaker002:] that uh no no I was kind of an in between uh finally drew a high draft number and you
[speaker001:] I'm I was much too young I was born in sixty seven so
[speaker002:] oh
[speaker001:] um in a way both my well uh both my brothers were um draft age but neither of them wound up going over which I think they were very happy for
[speaker002:] well I personally uh you know uh I just went in limbo I had a passport and was ready to go
[speaker001:] uh um-hum
[speaker002:] or um out of the country or or join special forces either one
[speaker001:] yeah um-hum
[speaker002:] I mean I I just didn't know so uh
[speaker001:] well um so well do you do you feel that it was worth what we did over there or
[speaker002:] um yeah just a second
[speaker001:] okay
[speaker002:] you restrict access cause a lot of times people are trying to cut them out okay sure now well Mark um what was that again
[speaker001:] um do you think I mean do you think our investment the investment in lives and money was worth it
[speaker002:] no not not really
[speaker001:] I totally agree with that
[speaker002:] um
[speaker001:] um well what what effects do you think it's had in our country
[speaker002:] downside um uh well Robert Blythe says we should uh uh yeah go into the grief that that's there and we're our presidents have always avoided that as a country so it's pretty serious really uh
[speaker001:] um-hum um-hum
[speaker002:] a lot of things that aren't being addressed
[speaker001:] um-hum well I think I think that you know that's pretty typical of the of the entire entire involvement over in that you know that nothing was really addressed it wasn't it wasn't you know it was never we we announced that we were going to war it was it was such a gradual and subtle you know the um you know increasement of of force that
[speaker002:] yeah Gulf of Tonkin uh resolution and was it a dolphin or a torpedo things you remember that
[speaker001:] um-hum I vaguely vaguely remember we um we had a we had a um spy ship torpedoed or something or something like that
[speaker002:] yeah yeah only only it was foggy and President uh President finally President Johnson said well they they weren't really sure whether it was a dolphin or a torpedo
[speaker001:] oh well
[speaker002:] isn't that something
[speaker001:] um-hum um so um do you do you do you think that like our um for example like in in this this past war the Persian Gulf war
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] that uh that you see it seemed to me that that Bush was going going to extraordinary lengths to um you know prepare the country for war yeah
[speaker002:] okay hey Mark uh I've got to go um we'll um see you I guess our five minutes are up according to me are they to you
[speaker001:] okay uh I wasn't really keeping count count but I guess that's good-bye
[speaker002:] yeah okay bye-bye
[speaker001:] bye

[speaker001:] Uh, it seems like an unusual subject this time of the year but, uh, it's, it's camping.
[speaker002:] Really. When was the last time you went?
[speaker001:] The last time I went camping was about, uh, in the middle of October, and we went up to Lake Bonham and really enjoyed it. Had a real good time with the family. We do an awful lot of camping. How about yourself?
[speaker002:] Well, I haven't been in probably about three years.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And the last time we went was in, um, well, I guess it was, it was like hunting season, and we went down to like a hunting ground and a lake
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Lake Sam Rayburn
[speaker001:] Yes, oh,
[speaker002:] which is in East Texas.
[speaker001:] Very good. I bet it's pretty over there.
[speaker002:] It is real pretty. Um, let's see.
[speaker001:] What do you think, what kind of
[speaker002:] Do you do a lot of fishing?
[speaker001:] camping, uh, are you talking about? Do you go out, and is camping for you in a motor home, or a trailer, or do you actually put up a tent or,
[speaker002:] One of the ones that you pull along
[speaker001:] Oh, okay, so you have,
[speaker002:] and then pop-u-, is it pop-up?
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] Pop-up.
[speaker001:] A pop-up trailer, huh.
[speaker002:] Yeah. What do you have?
[speaker001:] We have a tent.
[speaker002:] A tent?
[speaker001:] Yes [LAUGHTER]. So I guess we really rough it.
[speaker002:] Really.
[speaker001:] And we really enjoy that. Uh, one thing, uh, I've done all sorts of camping. I've, I've camped, uh, in the snow on a glacier. I've camped, uh, basically almost anywhere, even to the point where we've had to backpack in and everything you carried in was what you had to use to sustain you for that, that camping trip and had to pack it back out.
[speaker002:] So you're a serious camper.
[speaker001:] Well, we enjoy it, yeah. But since I've been married and with a family, uh, we have to go where there's restrooms [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Well, that makes sense.
[speaker001:] And playgrounds, and so forth, so, we really enjoy it. But also while I was growing up, we did have a trailer, and, uh, I camped in that trailer and in a tent and in, in log cabins and so forth too. So a lot of different things. And yes, I, to answer your questions earlier, yes, I, we do enjoy fishing, and I do go fishing. Haven't done a whole lot down here. We recently moved from the Rocky Mountain area up in, uh, northern Utah down to here because of work, and, uh, haven't been able to enjoy fishing like I used to up there, which is, uh, clear water fishing and streams and, and rivers.
[speaker002:] But when you all went camping is that what you normally, I mean, what did you normally do?
[speaker001:] We normally, yeah, we did, we did a lot of the fishing, but mainly what we did was we did a lot of hiking and exploring and, and just going out and seeing what there was to see, uh, in the area.
[speaker002:] I guess probably just wherever you live at has a lot to do with where, what you're going to do when you go, and you do actually camp.
[speaker001:] Oh, yes. That's true, that's true. And, * slash error
[speaker002:] Did you ever like travel around to what's that, the little K O, K O A camps whenever
[speaker001:] No, * slash error we
[speaker002:] ever done that?
[speaker001:] never did that. They [LAUGHTER] although I've stayed in K O A campgrounds, uh, we've never done that just to go around and camp. Um, personally, I, when I, when we were growing up and when we were going camping, I thought that was a little too structured of a camp ground.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Um, you know, that was mainly for people in motor homes or, or had trailers or, and so on and so forth, where, you know, we really wanted to go camping in a tent
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and, uh, K O A is, is geared for the people that have a hookup.
[speaker002:] That actually travel, what, city to city, state to state.
[speaker001:] Right, exactly, and, uh, I started out basically camping when I was, when I was in Boy Scouts, and we did an awful lot of that as, as a Boy Scout group. As I mentioned earlier, we went into wilderness areas and we camped in the snow, and in, uh, snow caves, and, and, uh,
[speaker002:] That's probably where I first started, was in Girl Scouts.
[speaker001:] All right. And you got a lot of that in, huh?
[speaker002:] Yeah [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] What do you like to do when you go camping?
[speaker002:] Um, well, let's see. I just, I mean, I just like to go and, normally I go with a whole group of friends
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] and we just kind of go and hang out and just do fun stuff.
[speaker001:] Enjoy it, huh [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Roast marshmallows.
[speaker001:] Tell scary, or scary stories around the fire and,
[speaker002:] Yeah, or, um, take a deck of cards if we can actually see and, um, play cards and stuff.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Oh, yeah. You know, lots, a lot of people I've talked to have said, well, isn't camping boring? Don't you get, don't you, uh, get bored and not have anything to do, but I've found out that actually we, we really enjoy getting away from the television, the telephone
[speaker002:] Yeah, it's relaxing.
[speaker001:] and, yes. Exactly. Get out, getting out and enjoying nature and each other as company when we're out camping.
[speaker002:] Plus, you, um, kind of makes you appreciate some, a lot of the things you take for granted.
[speaker001:] Yeah [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Running water
[speaker001:] Running water
[speaker002:] your hair dryer
[speaker001:] and a private bathroom.
[speaker002:] curling iron.
[speaker001:] Yes [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] What about your family. Do your kids and everything like to?
[speaker001:] Yes, they really do, they have a great time, and like I mentioned, uh, the, we, we've been camping a couple of times this year and the last time was in October and we went up to Lake Bonham, and there was a playground for them so they had swings,

[speaker001:] Okay. What do you think of the public school system? First off, do you have children that are in it?
[speaker002:] I have children that are in the Plano Public School systems and I am a substitute teacher at this point looking for a full-time job in the public school,
[speaker001:] Oh, okay [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] system [sniffing]. So,
[speaker001:] Well then, you should be a good one to know because I, my children are grown now. I now have grandchildren,
[speaker002:] Oh.
[speaker001:] in the school system so, uh, I don't have firsthand experience right now,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh, uh-huh.
[speaker001:] with it. So what do you think?
[speaker002:] Well, I think the public school systems are doing a good job. I think they have a long way to go yet but I think that, um, they are starting to head towards more technology and getting the kids computer literate earlier. You know, my kindergartners were on the, were on the computers, and I think that with the way the world is today that's got to be done. And I think that, uh, the schools now are starting to teach thinking strategies more than just giving them, you know, skills. You know,
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] you don't just add one plus one you figure out why you're adding it and what you're going to do with it once you've got it together. And I think that that's something that is drastically needed because most of these kids cannot think, they literally cannot come in out of the rain.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] That's right [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] You know, and that just, I don't care how intelligent you are if you be cannot [LAUGHTER] make it function for you that intelligence is being wasted.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] And, uh, this has been one of my pet peeves and probably why I went into education. So I think, you know, they're, they're trying to head them into teaching them to think and use the education that they have, and I think that's very, very important.
[speaker001:] Yes, it is. I, I agree with you that they're starting children so much earlier on things because our grandchildren, we have a, uh, fourth grader and then we have one that's in kindergarten and, and I know the fourth grader is doing stuff that our children was doing, were doing in the fifth and sixth grade.
[speaker002:] Oh, yeah.
[speaker001:] You know, it's amazing,
[speaker002:] [Sniffing].
[speaker001:] to me and stuff that I didn't do until I was in junior high.
[speaker002:] Oh, yeah.
[speaker001:] which, of course, shows my age.
[speaker002:] I tutor a girl that's in eighth grade and her pre-algebra book is higher then [LAUGHTER] some of my Algebra Two,
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] when I was in high school.
[speaker001:] Is that scary? [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] And it's like, oh, I going to take this home and study it before I can help you.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] You know, so they're really, they're really moving them along but yet, [sniffing] at the same time, you know, they are stopping and making them use it and function with it like they would need to do in everyday life.
[speaker001:] Now,
[speaker002:] And that's wha-, you know, a lot of the things that we did in school I've never used and never will use.
[speaker001:] Yes.
[speaker002:] And, uh, so I think that it's, it's appropriate to teach them, you know, why they are learning this not just because the teacher says you have to learn this.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Correct. Are you finding that, uh, since you're doing substitute, that you're wanting to do full-time? Um, I have a friend that's a teacher that one of her complaints is she can't teach because she's so busy filling out all the forms.
[speaker002:] Yes, that's a,
[speaker001:] And, and d-, are you, do you find that?
[speaker002:] [Sniffing] Well, filling out the forms and also all of these, uh, statewide and national wide testing,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] things so that they compare and. You know, you can as far as I'm concerned you can make a survey or test scores say anything you want it to say.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And it's just a matter of how you're going to interpret it. And you waste so much time quote, unquote teaching to the test to make sure that your scores are the very best they're possibly going to be,
[speaker001:] Be, uh-huh.
[speaker002:] you know, that I think it's, uh, I think it's crazy personally [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] You know, the fir-, the whole first nine weeks of school is, is used as a review but more than a review they're getting those kids primed and ready for the tests that are coming up in,
[speaker001:] Coming up, uh-huh.
[speaker002:] October. So that you know, your school district shines throughout the United States. And I think that's totally useless. I think, you know, there's a place and a time for all of the tests and comparisons but I think they've taken it to the extent now that it's just ridiculous. It's like bragging on your grandchildren.
[speaker001:] Right [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] You know, and everybody's kids are the best kids that have ever hit this earth and nobody else's children are going to ever live up to this, and that's great. But that's what they're doing with the school systems and they're wasting too much time on that, I think.
[speaker001:] Well, I, I know that this again this, this friend,
[speaker002:] [Sniffing].
[speaker001:] uh, is in the Plano School District,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and she teaches, uh, uh, it mus-, uh, emotionally disturbed children.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] And she says she has, um, six graders in there that are reading on the level of the second grade.
[speaker002:] Yes.
[speaker001:] And,
[speaker002:] [Sniffing].
[speaker001:] she says she's getting very frustrated and very depressed because the school is pressuring her to pass them on even though they're not ready. But because evidently you receive a certain amount of money when they're passed on or something. I didn't quite understand it.
[speaker002:] Yeah, there's a, yeah.
[speaker001:] And, uh,
[speaker002:] The bottom line is always money,

[speaker001:] Do you see anything wrong with public school systems?
[speaker002:] Well, yes, I do. Um, I think I'm concerned about the large number of children that each teacher is expected to, to deal with in some quality way. I think maybe we've given our teachers a almost impossible job.
[speaker001:] I agree.
[speaker002:] Do you? Do you have children in the public school system?
[speaker001:] Yes, and I taught for fourteen years
[speaker002:] Is that right.
[speaker001:] before we moved to Texas, and the, the one thing I see is changing is I was held accountable so much I had to document and create a paper chase for all of my students, and instead of spending my time coming up with creative learning stations and things like that I was filling out all these forms
[speaker002:] You were a bookkeeper [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] for all the children
[speaker002:] Oh.
[speaker001:] everything had to be documented, and I had file cabinets that weren't filled with neat stuff for kids, it was filled with documentation
[speaker002:] Oh, no.
[speaker001:] yes.
[speaker002:] Well, um, I'm, I have three years toward a teaching degree and am trying to get headed back, and, and I'm just really in a dilemma if that's what, you know, I love to work with children and
[speaker001:] Me, too.
[speaker002:] to teach them, but I'm really having questions if, if I can deal with that system and, and have a good conscience about, you know, what I do. I don't think, I don't think it's the teachers, I think it's the system
[speaker001:] I think so too.
[speaker002:] but, um.
[speaker001:] They're so worried about lawsuits and the scores the children get on tests now
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] and teacher competency, you know, and it's not like the teacher can just get in there and do her best, she's always worried who's looking over her shoulder and,
[speaker002:] What child's going to say something
[speaker001:] That's right.
[speaker002:] some parent's going to overreact to
[speaker001:] I know.
[speaker002:] that's, that's true. Well, it's, it's hard on the children too, I think, you know, because the, um, the teachers are overworked and just like a mommy that's overworked
[speaker001:] That's right.
[speaker002:] you're not at your best, you know, um.
[speaker001:] Do you have children in the system?
[speaker002:] I have two, I have, in the system one is in ninth grade and one is in seventh grade, and them, um, I'm home schooling my kindergartner this year.
[speaker001:] Oh.
[speaker002:] We, um, live in a district that has open classrooms, and I wasn't particularly comfortable with that for her.
[speaker001:] Yep. Are you in Plano?
[speaker002:] Yes.
[speaker001:] Yep, I am too.
[speaker002:] You too.
[speaker001:] And I have one in ninth grade at Clark and one at Hendrick this year, and he, my nin-, my, uh, sixth grader came from an open classroom at Matthews, and the very first year I taught back in seventy-three, we had open classroom and it didn't work then
[speaker002:] Oh.
[speaker001:] and when we moved down here, I was just appalled that they were still doing
[speaker002:] Still at it.
[speaker001:] it here,
[speaker002:] Well the explanation [NOISE] I was, was given about, you know, they, they seemed to admit that it wasn't working, but they didn't have the money to restructure, but looks to me that it wouldn't take really that much money to at least come up with, I mean, some kind of partitions
[speaker001:] Partitions
[speaker002:] you know,
[speaker001:] or just to face the children different directions or to do something
[speaker002:] Just, yeah.
[speaker001:] I know last year my son had to eat in the classroom because there was no cafeteria at his school
[speaker002:] Oh, goodness.
[speaker001:] so he spent all day
[speaker002:] Oh.
[speaker001:] in this one large open area, so, I didn't really care for that. It seems like the schools in Michigan were much better than they are down here.
[speaker002:] Were they?
[speaker001:] That was our last tour, in Michigan.
[speaker002:] Well, we were from North, um, Carolina, and of course North, North Carolina has a terrible reputation as far as education. I think they rank about forty-ninth
[speaker001:] Oh.
[speaker002:] but our children got a very good education there
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] they were in the magnet school program, and a lot of their classes, from the time they were about third grade, they, they changed classes several times during the day, which has its pros and cons, but a lot of their classes there were only eight or ten children in their classes
[speaker001:] Oh, wow.
[speaker002:] and it was wonderful
[speaker001:] Yes.
[speaker002:] so, you know, I'm coming to, to Plano thinking, Well, gosh, it's going to be really great, it's ranked so much better [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Yes, that's right. We heard wonderful things about it until we actually got in the system.
[speaker002:] Isn't that interesting, I, I, I don't understand how they get this, this reputation unless it's just that they spend a lot of money, I don't know.
[speaker001:] Probably so, on publicity and letting realtors know and key people how wonderful the schools are
[speaker002:] I guess so.
[speaker001:] so.
[speaker002:] Well, my son is at Clark this year too, so, uh, we're
[speaker001:] As a freshman?
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Yep.
[speaker002:] And, uh, [NOISE] he's pleased with his classes. I, I, I don't guess I've been in [NOISE] the high school long enough [NOISE] to, to know what to expect really
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] you know, how to judge it.
[speaker001:] My daughter seems to be having a good time, she was absent with strep throat the last three days, and I ran over and picked up her report card, and she did very good, so
[speaker002:] Well, that's good.
[speaker001:] and she seems to be studying and has just about the right amount of home work I would expect
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] for a freshman to have. She's not bogged down, but yet she has some every night.
[speaker002:] Well, Eric seems to have quite a few nights where he doesn't have any, so, that's interesting, but, he, his grades, I haven't seen them yet, but supposedly they're good, so,
[speaker001:] Yes, you always hear how good. Now my son's at,
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] junior high and says that his grades are going to be wonderful but,
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] who knows what he's going to bring home.
[speaker002:] That's right.

[speaker001:] Okay, um, let's see. How do you feel about credit cards?
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] Personally, I do not care for them. Uh, although I find them a necessity in business and so forth, I, I try to refrain from their use as much as possible. Um, for a number of reasons, one of which is the, you know, extreme interest rate on most of them.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] The one I use, uh, of course, for mostly, only for business purposes is, uh, you know, American Express.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] And, uh, [breathing] I'm not [breathing] I'm not terribly in favor of them. Not for my own personal, uh, point of view.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] Plus it, uh, has, you know, from an economic point of view it has increased our debt
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] tremendously
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] to the tune of somewhere on the order of five to ten billion, I believe
[speaker001:] Wow.
[speaker002:] uh, at least that's one number for this range of numbers I have, I have heard.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] Do you use them frequently or,
[speaker001:] Well, we, uh, me and my wife, when, when we have like extra money that we know we're going to have, and we can put it in our budget, yeah, we'll, we'll use it. But like last year, I think we paid, I think it was like twenty something cents interest,
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] on our Visa.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] And I think this, this year we, uh, I think we used it for Christmas, and we got caught just a few days on our grace period. And, uh, so we'll pay a little interest this year, but maybe two dollars. But we don't like to do that at all.
[speaker002:] Yes.
[speaker001:] And, you know, we, I think we feel about the same way you do real strongly. We, uh, we have several credit cards, though. We have a gas card, our Visa, and then, of course, the American Express, and I think we have a couple of department stores.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] But, we use it the same way, and, uh,
[speaker002:] I find the one I use mostly, uh, aside from the American Express, I do use my Sears card.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] But, uh, I try, a-, as with the American Express, I try to pay it, you know, as it comes in.
[speaker001:] Right. Right.
[speaker002:] So, uh,
[speaker001:] It's, it's not uncommon for us to have paid it before we even get the bill. That's usually how we do it.
[speaker002:] I know when I travel, or when I used to travel overseas quite a bit, what I would do on my American Express card is before I would, before I left I would mail a check to, to American Express
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] and, you know, have some idea of how much was there, you know, I'd sent them, {D you know, several hundred dollars, or whatever
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] I felt I would spend. }
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] And then use it then.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] But, uh, for hotels and, and so forth. But, uh, but I knew that it was paid [LAUGHTER]. I knew
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] I knew that I had that much
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] credit, going in. Sometimes, you know, sometimes I would go over, but it wouldn't, you know, it wouldn't hit me in a big, in a big way because
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] I knew that, uh, I would have it covered in that respect.
[speaker001:] Right. That's good. I've, I don't think we've gone that far [LAUGHTER],
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] to pay it in ad-, you know, in advance before we spend it, but, I guess if you foresaw that you were going to have to use it, that, like that,
[speaker002:] Well, I found
[speaker001:] that may be good.
[speaker002:] I found in, um, in traveling overseas
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] that, uh, often it would, uh, it would expedite things to have an American Express credit card
[speaker001:] Oh really.
[speaker002:] for hotel bills and so forth.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] Plus I would, uh, when they, uh, would send the bill, they would automatically convert to the exchange rate.
[speaker001:] Right, right.
[speaker002:] So, now, the only time that got to be a problem was, if the exchange rate changed drastically.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Uh, for example, I remember on one trip to France [breathing] when I started planning the trip, I think, uh, a dollar was worth nine or ten francs * This looks like funny parsing to me. Shouldn't "francs" be part of previous utt, and B.64, with it's coordinating conjunction and indep clause, start a new slash unit?
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] and just in a matter of a week or two the dollar fell against the franc, drastically. * See note on B.62 utt2 above And whe-, when I finally got over there, it had fallen, uh, two or three francs to the dollar. So the [LAUGHTER],
[speaker001:] Wow [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] So, I got caught a little short
[speaker001:] Wow.
[speaker002:] in that regard, but, uh
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] uh, I, I was anticipating, you know, my room would cost, uh, let's say if it were, say sixty or seventy francs a night
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] that would mean it would be about ten dollars or so, or maybe twenty dolls-, maybe it would be more than that. It was more than. It would average out to thirty-five or forty dollars a night
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] which is a reasonable rate.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] But then [LAUGHTER] when I got back and I was working for the government at the time
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] of course the government was several months behind in,
[speaker001:] Right, yeah.
[speaker002:] their, on its per diem for exchange rate.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] So there's a little consternation, you know, in trying to get them to compensate,
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] for the difference in the exchange rate.
[speaker001:] Right. Yeah especially,
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] That was the only time I really got caught short. And I,
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] But as I said, most, most of all I try not to use them, uh, to any, you know, lavishly, in that regard.
[speaker001:] Yeah, well tha-, that's good.
[speaker002:] Well, from where are you calling?
[speaker001:] Oh, from the Dallas area.
[speaker002:] So you're from Dal-, okay, I'm from Maryland.
[speaker001:] Oh really.
[speaker002:] Yeah [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Wow. Do you work for T I?
[speaker002:] No. I work for G T E.
[speaker001:] Well, really.
[speaker002:] Yes.
[speaker001:] Um. I wonder how T I got G T E involved.
[speaker002:] Well, I know Jack Godfrey.
[speaker001:] Oh, okay.
[speaker002:] I know him very well. I've known Jack for a long time, and I'm also in the speech business.
[speaker001:] Oh, okay.
[speaker002:] So, when I heard that Jack was going to do this, I called him and asked for an [meow] application where I could participate
[speaker001:] Yeah, yeah.
[speaker002:] in this. And, so that's how I got [meow] involved.
[speaker001:] Yeah. You have a very, um, very, what's the word. Your, your speech is very exact.
[speaker002:] Oh. Thank you very much [LAUGHTER]. But, as Jack said, I'm one of the, the old hands in the speech business.
[speaker001:] Oh really.
[speaker002:] Yeah, uh. Yes, I, I've been doing it for twenty some odd years.
[speaker001:] Wow.
[speaker002:] And so, uh, I was very much interested, uh, in getting involved in, uh, switchboard.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] So, uh, you work for T I?
[speaker001:] Right. I work in.
[speaker002:] Oh, really?
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] I guess we're supposed to do this part of it before we started the recording [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Yeah [LAUGHTER]. I think we talked for a good eight minutes about the subject, so, I think you get ten, so I think we're okay.
[speaker002:] Alright. Okay, fine. Well, you have a good evening.
[speaker001:] Well, you too.
[speaker002:] It's been pleasant talking to you.
[speaker001:] Same here.
[speaker002:] Take care. Good night.
[speaker001:] Bye.