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dendimaki

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apeiron-layers

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it has ebbed and flowed a little bit but its been pretty consistent feeling of deeper stillness at the points where one would expect you know you were describing things around the fullness or just stuff like that versus the body per se versus like sinuses and mhm or even in this part of the conversation you know like it seems like the stillness is ebbed a little bit from the depth that it was a moment ago

LAY3

so its its subtle but theres definitely a distinct difference between those two experiences um of layer three

LAY3

things that sense of joy is very often more associated with layer three

LAY3

i can play such a good game of a location two layer three but it doesnt it doesnt necessarily feel like its authentic i can model it i can get people there i can like give them their little charmed life and like

LAY3

feel really like reality is like this thick fluid like substance that you can like just sort of pushing through like viscerally like a thick substance in some sense

LAY3

no i think its a different thing than its related to location two layer three

LAY3

like disapproval like i noticed that i kind of had a lot of these disapproval patterns of myself and so i started noticing them more and kind of like just kind of letting them go so maybe that was a big shift and now more recently ive been noticing that there is a lot of this anxiety kind of pattern that feels like a its like a performance type anxiety or like approval type of thing and that comes up like really a lot every day yeah so yeah so thats like thats dropping me down to layer one often

LAY1

layer three standpoint

LAY3

access to layer two

LAY2

liveness beingness

LAY3

so you know im not its not a bad thing that you shift into layer one or anything like that its not something to be avoided

LAY1

it could also relate to your identity really shifting into the spaciousness

LAY2

you know dont bring in any mental analysis in any layer one type stuff

LAY1

self is that yeah the reflection on experience which itself produces experience and all the qualities of experience which is why you know when you sense into whats beyond layer three it feels like its unknowable or a mystery or without qualities

LAY3

the layer one is getting more pulled back into the story and the sort of feeling of the the thoughts that put me into the past or the future or something like that

LAY1

consciousness as a field

LAY3

like initially you cant see anything its just an unknowable

LAY4

like that state of like everything is just great everything is just perfect like how they say before enlightenment

LAY3

seems individualized

LAY1

layer three is still and peaceful

LAY3

layer two is a great place to hide out

LAY2

but theres no sense of like i see myself because the self is just not seeming real anymore

LAY2

am just the space

LAY2

experience of senselessness might

LAY2

location one of layer two

LAY2

charmed life maybe sounded interesting obviously those would all involve coming back from where youre headed

LAY3

layer four experience

LAY4

it feels beyond states and experiences

LAY4

negative feelings

LAY3

layer one from a more persistent higher place as well

LAY1

layer two quality

LAY2

promote motivation

LAY3

encased in gelatin

LAY3

so you said that you werent sure whether at times your you were viewing layer one

LAY1

spaciousness emptiness presence fullness

LAY2

so when that when you feel that you are that thats really near the deepest reaches of layer three

LAY3

joy and deep peace

LAY3

meta experience

LAY1

so think of layer two as that sense of space spaciousness

LAY2

eucharist

LAY3

shifted to that deeper

LAY4

whats out there is out there

LAY2

layer three and location two

LAY3

watch the thinking occur but you really are not an active participant in the thinking process

LAY1

i could i could fortunately i could stay clued into the to what they said and then id say something you know oh tell me more about that or you know that was all i could do i couldnt work out what i need to do with this client

LAY1

false assumption

LAY1

should i just focus like only on layer two for like a week or two or and then its like trying to because maybe im trying to do too many things sometimes

LAY2

that stillness is then next sort of felt as a fullness

LAY1

emptiness is two

LAY2

layer two its more like i dont have that kind of feeling at all

LAY2

it feels more pleasant than the senselessness

LAY3

density fullness aliveness is

LAY3

i said was the crushing loneliness of the divine that was beautiful in his stark simplicity

LAY2

about layer three idea of fullness

LAY3

spaciousness and the emptiness being accessible and then you know

LAY2

you know thats cool keep in mind charmed life is a locking in of location two layer three

LAY3

so possibly in that direction thats one of our qualities that we look for for a very deep experience of layer three yeah its clearly somewhere deeper than what youre usually access in terms of having the greater sense of serenity or stillness and feeling just generally more like present theres

LAY3

it wasnt empty its all of a sudden full

LAY3

i think it feels more like the fullness right now at this moment

LAY3

its probably like a layer like a layer two kind of thing

LAY2

deconditioned neutral emotional relatively emotionally neutral or whatever kind of deeper layer one type experience

LAY1

embedded in layer one because theres a you experiencing this not necessarily its still nondual there wouldnt be like a separate looker or something but theres still a sense of an individualized sense of self that is recognizing and experiencing this all present all containing awareness

LAY1

however if i dont really have to i can sink in pretty deep but i think i can reach into layer three of location two

LAY3

true thats a tricky name yeah yeah okay well um yeah all that all that comes up to say would be related to that um self dropping away which i think because of your experience with helping people shift out of the personal sense of self um and seeing that from the other side um you can probably um sense into in some way uh so theres the personal sense of self which is really constructed conceptually and what youre experiencing is what one could consider an impersonal sense of self in that there is beingness or presence you wouldnt say that theres you know that you dont exist or something um but its not personal in nature its universal in nature it is you know in union with all being with the essence of all being um and when that disappears theres obviously a disappearance of even the quality of being or beingness theres like just existence without that condition because being is then perceived to be a condition that would imply that you know what what existence is subject to a condition of being and it feels just more fundamental or absolute than that but the the self is essentially what remains is that which reflects on experience so im not talking about the mind having an interpretation of experience but simply that which kind of reflects on experience and has therefore got the sense of i exist i am but also produces relationship and so thats this is really

LAY3

i would have to say probably not its just that i think that the mind gets so active in trying to kind of like very quickly come up with things to say or stuff like that that it can feel like

LAY1

centreless quality of aliveness

LAY3

layer three of location four you know as you experience them there you know with that amazing richness and because its emotional the richness is emotional

LAY3

so in the fullness just feels really full

LAY3

i want to say infinite completeness

LAY4

yeah thats where the fear comes up if i can get over to location two layer two

LAY2

layer three seems more real than anything else

LAY3

the fullness feels bigger

LAY3

i would say not divine because i think i have a past experiences with divine that really the way i describe that is like almost something pulling me up from the sky like trying to pull me towards it like whether its outstretched hands or just that presence but this was not that this was im sort of on the same in the same field on the same level as everything and the love is sort of just all around

LAY2

like glimpsing into layer four by doing like unprovoked happiness but and then the fact that it didnt last too long which is thats indicative of just the layer four but not location four thing

LAY4

probably youre already doing all of that intuitively it would be my guess and then the other thing is there was you mentioned temporary glimpses when deeper of a shift of your identity into spaciousness

LAY2

it just collapses

LAY4

youre sort of still in the mind

LAY1

layer one is interesting because theres like the active thought with the words the narrative in the head

LAY1

vibrancy

LAY3

and then the mind comes in with resistance at that point or deepening in that direction just kind of trying to keep your identity somewhat centered around layer one

LAY1

spacious perception

LAY2

location three its like they sink more into some aspect of the qualities that hold them in location three at at layer three you know and they dont quite get to you know the the progression from layer four and then location four kind of standpoint

LAY3

i would just try to make layer three a home base by sinking in more and more and more to you know every aspect that you have access to relating to it

LAY3

i would say play to your strengths for the moment write what you have access to that is further than layer one location one

LAY1

in location three there was a certain clarity that i dont have now because it was like less commotion or deadness because like the love would infuse every thought so a thought would come up and instead of me where i am right now i dont want to deal with it it would just be like oh its okay its lets lets just sit with it and the loving feeling would just infuse every thought and then certain judgments that id have oh well i dont really need to look at it that way i can well i can just put love in this or i can just love it so that that id say that was like the most stark contrast

LAY2

im more on the layer three since the feeling is really really sunny right now

LAY3

if you were at layer three before that or something

LAY3

a sense of of presence

LAY3

its the latter its become the spacious emptiness

LAY2

thats who knows some portion of layer three or some afterglow from layer three or some thread to layer three or whatever it is but then you know youre really going to want to spend time dedicated time sinking in and really clearly communicating to your system and to the habit formation in your attention that no no no its these things you know its not the spaciousness its not the emptiness its not the spacious emptiness its not the spacious emptiness combined with the fullness its the fullness its the presence its the infinite field thing its whatever

LAY3

sense of container

LAY2

sense of self shift all the way into layer one

LAY1

just that your your descriptions of location three layer three and of deepening into the the divine and into the celestial beyond that or through that in that direction and the devotion and reverence and all that its its extraordinarily well put into words amazing and its i recognize it you know its its ive never heard someone else put it into words like that and it was just phenomenal to read you know so cool um wow and yeah i agree with the same of what i used to call the divine turned out to be the celestial that deeper you know its its very difficult to define it but yes like the the divine that is initially experienced in location three if it shows up that way that people are referring to is more like a construct than you know as as that falls away with the celestial orientation there is this way more i dont know what to do what lens to use at this fine but much more foundational and deep and profound vast kind of infinite sense of divinity

LAY3

a feeling that you are the thinker im not sure whether what youre describing is really shifting your identity or whether youre just shifting the focus of your attention to be you know almost entirely occupied with thought or with you know speaking personality aspects and so on so that shift that were looking for if its you know true fluidity to layer one that would mean not only is your attention occupied with the contents of layer one but also the sense of self has moved into layer one like you are the personality you are the thinker you are the one speaking you know generating those

LAY1

feels transparent

LAY2

infinite emptiness or spaciousness and everything just shows up within it and disappears within it

LAY2

i found an exemplar of someone who i found inspiring and how theyre navigating the world and it was only one week so who knows if the rest of his life is a mess but somehow energetically and his stability and his ability to pretty much be in grounded in the situation with a great deal of palpable presence and peace so again if i was kind of trying to reverse engineer it i was thinking well that s potentially like location three with access to one or location to layer three

LAY3

pervading presence

LAY3

nonduality thing

LAY3

i think because it felt like theres this like almost cold empty space and a kind of clearness to it by just like a lot of like it empty empty is what it feels like empty

LAY2