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doing. Um room for creativity There was that. Um I think we tried a lotta different things and um I think it was um interesting as you guys brought up more um information and studies that we were right on with a lot of those things. Um you guys worked together well as a team. And um the means Which was the whiteboard and the pens.User Interface: Yeah. We've used the whiteboard.Industrial Designer: Super super.Project Manager: I had some problem with the pen I think, but {vocalsound} minus your pMarketing: Minus your PowerPoint fiasco.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Well that's not my fault. That's obviously the people I work for uh that work for me,Marketing: No I know. I'm {disfmarker}Project Manager: Well {disfmarker}Marketing: yeah. Incom {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: uh they've just you know {disfmarker}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Have a {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Heads are gonna roll, believe me.Project Manager: we have a list of employees that you would like fired.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yes yes.Project Manager: Okay. N new ideas found Um {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Mm. Kinda.Project Manager: Yes for the remote. Maybe no not f forUser Interface: Technology used.Project Manager: technology. Alright. Closing. Costs are within the budget. Project is evaluated. Um complete the final questionnaire and meeting summary. That's it.User Interface: Excellent.Project Manager: And I still have to do my minutes for the last meeting. {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Actually. Um so there will probably be another questionnaire coming up. And then we'll have to check with the main boss whether we can, what goes on after that.Marketing: We might have a while though.Industrial Designer: {gap}.Project Manager: But that's the end of our meeting. fashion is b is Carmen Miranda, you betcha. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: More {disfmarker} {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah. {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Well the recent fashion is rather displayed in the in the L_C_D_ and the way you operate it than the form and the colour,User Interface: On the {disfmarker}Project Manager: It's true.User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: but it definitely is {disfmarker}User Interface: Be what we were told, and they'd say yeah, definitely.Industrial Designer: {gap}.Marketing:'Kay. Alright. Now we just gotta calculate. Six eight twelve sixteen. Seventeen divided by sUser Interface: {gap}.Project Manager: Seven is {disfmarker}Marketing: Eight.Project Manager: Two point {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {gap} two point fourUser Interface: Is that some long division No.Project Manager: Something.Marketing: Well I haven't done math in years.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: What two {disfmarker}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} I dunno.User Interface: Just, I'm sure there's a {gap}.Marketing: Okay we'll say two point four two. Right How does that lookIndustrial Designer: I'm impressed. I can't do that without a calculator. {vocalsound}User Interface: No I can't do long {gap}Marketing: {vocalsound} It's been a while.User Interface: very impressive.Project Manager: And what what is the acceptable criteria Is there like a scale that we have to hitMarketing: Oh no. They just told me toIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} pick my own criteria and have you guys evaluate it {vocalsound} basically.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Alright then.Marketing: So that's that.Project Manager: Okay. Well, let's see.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Now we get to do the budget numbers. You didn't know that you were gonna have a budget. But we do. Okay.User Interface: Yeah. Yeah so. You'd been going a long time dividing that. It's two point four two eight five se it just keeps going on.Marketing: Oh my god.User Interface: Two point four two basically.Marketing: Okay. Yeah we'll go with that.Project Manager: So I have here an {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Fifty percent, Manager: by three Euros over.Industrial Designer: It's hard to believe. So we'll go for the hand dynamo huh {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: So the only thing better than um a banana-shaped remote is one that you shake.User Interface: If it w What if we completely took out the the one single button we've got on.Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: And just had a scroll wheel interface. And the L_C_D_ display. I suppose the L_C_D_ C_ display's the one that's pushing it up a bit though.Project Manager: Yeah'cause the {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Well'cause we have to have both rightUser Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: I mean let's let's face it, it also depends on the software on the on the television.User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: You can have the the information that this thing transmits be being displayed on the on the screen.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: So s yeah let's take away the {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah you could maybe take out the L_C_D_ dis display even,Industrial Designer: Yeah. Yeah.User Interface: if it if it comes up on the computer itsel on the T_V_ itself.Industrial Designer: Right.Project Manager: So we may not need the L_C_D_ displayUser Interface: Uh that is possible yeah.Industrial Designer: Right. We may not need it. There you go.Project Manager: Well there we go.Industrial Designer: Perfect.Project Manager: Twelve point five.User Interface: There we go.Marketing: {vocalsound} Perfect.Project Manager: Okay. So we just remove our {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: Screen.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: screen here.User Interface: Make it a bigger dial.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: Easier to use. Even easier to use then.Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Okay, the {disfmarker}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Besides look at what the L_C_D_ does to our lovely remote.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Back to the design room boys.Industrial Designer: So we can just take away of course may be changed depending on budget.User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Y you could add an extra feature actually. Which makes this thing raise hell when you remove it too far from the television.User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: We could add that but that's nothing we have thought of so far.Project Manager: Which, which may be cheaper than speech recognition if it were just a {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yes.User Interface: Yeah true. But I mean d just those whistling, clapping key rings you have. They're cheap.Marketing: Annoying alarm or somethingProject Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: It's it's {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah.User Interface: So it can't be thatIndustrial Designer: Um the {disfmarker} it's based on this anti anti-theft technology for suitcases and stuff,User Interface: expensive.Project Manager: Some sort of proximity {vocalsound} {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: where you have one piece that's attached to your luggage, another piece that starts beeping. That can't cost much.User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: So that can also easily be integrated because these things are small enough to to hide, so you have one piece, you have to glue somewhere behind your {disfmarker} stick it behind your T_V_ and the other {disfmarker}User Interface: {gap} stick it on the T_V_ {gap}.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Pray that you don't accidentally lose that piece. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Right.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: That'd be tough then. {vocalsound} Well also your remote would uh alarm you if somebody stole you t your television, yeah. Ran off with it without taking the beautiful remote control.Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah. {vocalsound}Marketing: So. Are we adding one of these two featuresIndustrial Designer: Let's add one of those features and say yes. {vocalsound}Marketing: {gap} gonna say {disfmarker} okay.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: So we're {vocalsound} back to a oneUser Interface: Two.Marketing: Or a twoProject Manager: Two.Industrial Designer: Two.Marketing: Two,'kay. Okay. Are we technologically innovativeIndustrial Designer: Uh completely with the ugly remote because the colour is ugly, definitely.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yep.Marketing: That's true. Yeah.Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer:'S nothing you can say about that. I mean I much prefer something like brushed chrome with that form.User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: But {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah something more modern to go {disfmarker} a a modern colour to go with the modern form.Industrial Designer: Right. Right. It's different. You don't want your uh three feet huge L_C_D_ dis display in your living room that's hanging from the wall to be controlled with something like that.Marketing: Um okay so, do you think, since we {disfmarker} This was a a sign criteria, do you think maybe we should put it somewhere in the middle thenIndustrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: Does that sound goodProject Manager: Yeah.User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: What do you think Three FourProject Manager: I would sayMarketing: FiveProject Manager: four. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah. {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Four is fair. Okay.Project Manager: Very non-committal, four.Marketing: Okay, the second one. Did we make it simple for new usersIndustrial Designer: It's very intuitive, I think yeah.User Interface: Yeah. I think that was the main aim, one of the main aims that we had.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} S give it a one.Marketing: One,Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing:'kay. Okay. Um, do the controls now match the operating behaviour of the usersUser Interface: Uh yeah.'Cause we've we've brought it down to basically four controls {gap} most common, which are channel and volume.Marketing: I'd say that {disfmarker}Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: Right.User Interface: And then the other ones are just a matter of just going, just scrolling further.Project Manager: S scrolling through and selecting a few.Industrial Designer: Right. So that's a one.Marketing: So oneProject Manager: I think that's a one.Marketing: Yeah {vocalsound} Okay. Okay um the fourth one. How about the problem of a

How Did Project Manager and User Interface introduce the prototype of the remote control

Project Manager introduced that the prototype incorporated fashion trends that people prefer fancy looking products like fruit and vegetable. After That, User Interface presented the product which looked like a banana and was bright yellow except for the blue button. The style was as simple as possible in order to fit the customers'need for simplicity. Also, the product could be curved and used both-handed with advanced chips hidden inside, which seemed quite creative and identical to iPod features. In the end, Industrial Designer commented that the remote control could be smaller in size.

doing. Um room for creativity There was that. Um I think we tried a lotta different things and um I think it was um interesting as you guys brought up more um information and studies that we were right on with a lot of those things. Um you guys worked together well as a team. And um the means Which was the whiteboard and the pens.User Interface: Yeah. We've used the whiteboard.Industrial Designer: Super super.Project Manager: I had some problem with the pen I think, but {vocalsound} minus your pMarketing: Minus your PowerPoint fiasco.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Well that's not my fault. That's obviously the people I work for uh that work for me,Marketing: No I know. I'm {disfmarker}Project Manager: Well {disfmarker}Marketing: yeah. Incom {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: uh they've just you know {disfmarker}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Have a {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Heads are gonna roll, believe me.Project Manager: we have a list of employees that you would like fired.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yes yes.Project Manager: Okay. N new ideas found Um {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Mm. Kinda.Project Manager: Yes for the remote. Maybe no not f forUser Interface: Technology used.Project Manager: technology. Alright. Closing. Costs are within the budget. Project is evaluated. Um complete the final questionnaire and meeting summary. That's it.User Interface: Excellent.Project Manager: And I still have to do my minutes for the last meeting. {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Actually. Um so there will probably be another questionnaire coming up. And then we'll have to check with the main boss whether we can, what goes on after that.Marketing: We might have a while though.Industrial Designer: {gap}.Project Manager: But that's the end of our meeting. fashion is b is Carmen Miranda, you betcha. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: More {disfmarker} {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah. {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Well the recent fashion is rather displayed in the in the L_C_D_ and the way you operate it than the form and the colour,User Interface: On the {disfmarker}Project Manager: It's true.User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: but it definitely is {disfmarker}User Interface: Be what we were told, and they'd say yeah, definitely.Industrial Designer: {gap}.Marketing:'Kay. Alright. Now we just gotta calculate. Six eight twelve sixteen. Seventeen divided by sUser Interface: {gap}.Project Manager: Seven is {disfmarker}Marketing: Eight.Project Manager: Two point {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {gap} two point fourUser Interface: Is that some long division No.Project Manager: Something.Marketing: Well I haven't done math in years.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: What two {disfmarker}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} I dunno.User Interface: Just, I'm sure there's a {gap}.Marketing: Okay we'll say two point four two. Right How does that lookIndustrial Designer: I'm impressed. I can't do that without a calculator. {vocalsound}User Interface: No I can't do long {gap}Marketing: {vocalsound} It's been a while.User Interface: very impressive.Project Manager: And what what is the acceptable criteria Is there like a scale that we have to hitMarketing: Oh no. They just told me toIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} pick my own criteria and have you guys evaluate it {vocalsound} basically.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Alright then.Marketing: So that's that.Project Manager: Okay. Well, let's see.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Now we get to do the budget numbers. You didn't know that you were gonna have a budget. But we do. Okay.User Interface: Yeah. Yeah so. You'd been going a long time dividing that. It's two point four two eight five se it just keeps going on.Marketing: Oh my god.User Interface: Two point four two basically.Marketing: Okay. Yeah we'll go with that.Project Manager: So I have here an {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Fifty percent, of course may be changed depending on budget.User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Y you could add an extra feature actually. Which makes this thing raise hell when you remove it too far from the television.User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: We could add that but that's nothing we have thought of so far.Project Manager: Which, which may be cheaper than speech recognition if it were just a {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yes.User Interface: Yeah true. But I mean d just those whistling, clapping key rings you have. They're cheap.Marketing: Annoying alarm or somethingProject Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: It's it's {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah.User Interface: So it can't be thatIndustrial Designer: Um the {disfmarker} it's based on this anti anti-theft technology for suitcases and stuff,User Interface: expensive.Project Manager: Some sort of proximity {vocalsound} {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: where you have one piece that's attached to your luggage, another piece that starts beeping. That can't cost much.User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: So that can also easily be integrated because these things are small enough to to hide, so you have one piece, you have to glue somewhere behind your {disfmarker} stick it behind your T_V_ and the other {disfmarker}User Interface: {gap} stick it on the T_V_ {gap}.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Pray that you don't accidentally lose that piece. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Right.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: That'd be tough then. {vocalsound} Well also your remote would uh alarm you if somebody stole you t your television, yeah. Ran off with it without taking the beautiful remote control.Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah. {vocalsound}Marketing: So. Are we adding one of these two featuresIndustrial Designer: Let's add one of those features and say yes. {vocalsound}Marketing: {gap} gonna say {disfmarker} okay.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: So we're {vocalsound} back to a oneUser Interface: Two.Marketing: Or a twoProject Manager: Two.Industrial Designer: Two.Marketing: Two,'kay. Okay. Are we technologically innovativeIndustrial Designer: Uh Manager: by three Euros over.Industrial Designer: It's hard to believe. So we'll go for the hand dynamo huh {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: So the only thing better than um a banana-shaped remote is one that you shake.User Interface: If it w What if we completely took out the the one single button we've got on.Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: And just had a scroll wheel interface. And the L_C_D_ display. I suppose the L_C_D_ C_ display's the one that's pushing it up a bit though.Project Manager: Yeah'cause the {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Well'cause we have to have both rightUser Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: I mean let's let's face it, it also depends on the software on the on the television.User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: You can have the the information that this thing transmits be being displayed on the on the screen.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: So s yeah let's take away the {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah you could maybe take out the L_C_D_ dis display even,Industrial Designer: Yeah. Yeah.User Interface: if it if it comes up on the computer itsel on the T_V_ itself.Industrial Designer: Right.Project Manager: So we may not need the L_C_D_ displayUser Interface: Uh that is possible yeah.Industrial Designer: Right. We may not need it. There you go.Project Manager: Well there we go.Industrial Designer: Perfect.Project Manager: Twelve point five.User Interface: There we go.Marketing: {vocalsound} Perfect.Project Manager: Okay. So we just remove our {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: Screen.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: screen here.User Interface: Make it a bigger dial.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: Easier to use. Even easier to use then.Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Okay, the {disfmarker}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Besides look at what the L_C_D_ does to our lovely remote.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Back to the design room boys.Industrial Designer: So we can just take away Interface: Is there anything you want to addIndustrial Designer: That's what we have there. That's plastic. Plastic covered with rubber. We might uh add some more underneath here. Maybe give it, give it a form. I mean you're supposed to hold it like that, but um just if you grab it, take it from somewhere,User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: so {disfmarker} yeah,User Interface: Doesn't make much make much difference.Industrial Designer: you have some rub yeah.User Interface: You could work left-handed or right-handed I suppose.Industrial Designer: Exactly, {gap} use both. Might as well think about {disfmarker}User Interface: T the actual thing might be smaller.Industrial Designer: Th think about the button as well. Like either put either one {gap} one on either side orUser Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah.Project Manager: What but what's that buttonIndustrial Designer: not do it at all. It's a quick on-off button.User Interface: Just the on and off.Project Manager: Uh,'kay.Industrial Designer: That's umMarketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: yeah I think it's pretty important. So you don't have to fiddle with that.Project Manager:'Kay.Industrial Designer: Right Um that's not um {disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: I'd say a bit smaller would probably be nice. You wanna play with that over there.User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: There you go.User Interface: It's you know it's flimsy'cause it's made out of heavy Play-Doh,Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Would you like to uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Right.User Interface: but {disfmarker}Marketing: Pretty impressive.Project Manager: Well done.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Kind of a banana.User Interface: And whether or not it would fall into the cost {gap} everything I suppose. With the scroll and the L_C_D_.Project Manager: Well luckily we are going to find out. Or not luckily. Um do you have a marketing presentation for us.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} I do. Okay. You guys are gonna help me do an evaluation of the criteria.

How did Marketing design the product evaluation

Marketing had some evaluation criteria in mind, based on previous marketing strategy, on the latest trends, and on user preferences. The team should figure out whether their product could solve the complaints of the ugly remote control. There was a seven-point scale rating for each criterion. The team would give comments to each feature listed and agree on the final rating.

doing. Um room for creativity There was that. Um I think we tried a lotta different things and um I think it was um interesting as you guys brought up more um information and studies that we were right on with a lot of those things. Um you guys worked together well as a team. And um the means Which was the whiteboard and the pens.User Interface: Yeah. We've used the whiteboard.Industrial Designer: Super super.Project Manager: I had some problem with the pen I think, but {vocalsound} minus your pMarketing: Minus your PowerPoint fiasco.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Well that's not my fault. That's obviously the people I work for uh that work for me,Marketing: No I know. I'm {disfmarker}Project Manager: Well {disfmarker}Marketing: yeah. Incom {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: uh they've just you know {disfmarker}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Have a {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Heads are gonna roll, believe me.Project Manager: we have a list of employees that you would like fired.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yes yes.Project Manager: Okay. N new ideas found Um {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Mm. Kinda.Project Manager: Yes for the remote. Maybe no not f forUser Interface: Technology used.Project Manager: technology. Alright. Closing. Costs are within the budget. Project is evaluated. Um complete the final questionnaire and meeting summary. That's it.User Interface: Excellent.Project Manager: And I still have to do my minutes for the last meeting. {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Actually. Um so there will probably be another questionnaire coming up. And then we'll have to check with the main boss whether we can, what goes on after that.Marketing: We might have a while though.Industrial Designer: {gap}.Project Manager: But that's the end of our meeting. fashion is b is Carmen Miranda, you betcha. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: More {disfmarker} {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah. {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Well the recent fashion is rather displayed in the in the L_C_D_ and the way you operate it than the form and the colour,User Interface: On the {disfmarker}Project Manager: It's true.User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: but it definitely is {disfmarker}User Interface: Be what we were told, and they'd say yeah, definitely.Industrial Designer: {gap}.Marketing:'Kay. Alright. Now we just gotta calculate. Six eight twelve sixteen. Seventeen divided by sUser Interface: {gap}.Project Manager: Seven is {disfmarker}Marketing: Eight.Project Manager: Two point {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {gap} two point fourUser Interface: Is that some long division No.Project Manager: Something.Marketing: Well I haven't done math in years.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: What two {disfmarker}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} I dunno.User Interface: Just, I'm sure there's a {gap}.Marketing: Okay we'll say two point four two. Right How does that lookIndustrial Designer: I'm impressed. I can't do that without a calculator. {vocalsound}User Interface: No I can't do long {gap}Marketing: {vocalsound} It's been a while.User Interface: very impressive.Project Manager: And what what is the acceptable criteria Is there like a scale that we have to hitMarketing: Oh no. They just told me toIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} pick my own criteria and have you guys evaluate it {vocalsound} basically.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Alright then.Marketing: So that's that.Project Manager: Okay. Well, let's see.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Now we get to do the budget numbers. You didn't know that you were gonna have a budget. But we do. Okay.User Interface: Yeah. Yeah so. You'd been going a long time dividing that. It's two point four two eight five se it just keeps going on.Marketing: Oh my god.User Interface: Two point four two basically.Marketing: Okay. Yeah we'll go with that.Project Manager: So I have here an {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Fifty percent, Manager: by three Euros over.Industrial Designer: It's hard to believe. So we'll go for the hand dynamo huh {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: So the only thing better than um a banana-shaped remote is one that you shake.User Interface: If it w What if we completely took out the the one single button we've got on.Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: And just had a scroll wheel interface. And the L_C_D_ display. I suppose the L_C_D_ C_ display's the one that's pushing it up a bit though.Project Manager: Yeah'cause the {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Well'cause we have to have both rightUser Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: I mean let's let's face it, it also depends on the software on the on the television.User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: You can have the the information that this thing transmits be being displayed on the on the screen.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: So s yeah let's take away the {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah you could maybe take out the L_C_D_ dis display even,Industrial Designer: Yeah. Yeah.User Interface: if it if it comes up on the computer itsel on the T_V_ itself.Industrial Designer: Right.Project Manager: So we may not need the L_C_D_ displayUser Interface: Uh that is possible yeah.Industrial Designer: Right. We may not need it. There you go.Project Manager: Well there we go.Industrial Designer: Perfect.Project Manager: Twelve point five.User Interface: There we go.Marketing: {vocalsound} Perfect.Project Manager: Okay. So we just remove our {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: Screen.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: screen here.User Interface: Make it a bigger dial.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: Easier to use. Even easier to use then.Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Okay, the {disfmarker}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Besides look at what the L_C_D_ does to our lovely remote.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Back to the design room boys.Industrial Designer: So we can just take away of course may be changed depending on budget.User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Y you could add an extra feature actually. Which makes this thing raise hell when you remove it too far from the television.User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: We could add that but that's nothing we have thought of so far.Project Manager: Which, which may be cheaper than speech recognition if it were just a {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yes.User Interface: Yeah true. But I mean d just those whistling, clapping key rings you have. They're cheap.Marketing: Annoying alarm or somethingProject Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: It's it's {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah.User Interface: So it can't be thatIndustrial Designer: Um the {disfmarker} it's based on this anti anti-theft technology for suitcases and stuff,User Interface: expensive.Project Manager: Some sort of proximity {vocalsound} {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: where you have one piece that's attached to your luggage, another piece that starts beeping. That can't cost much.User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: So that can also easily be integrated because these things are small enough to to hide, so you have one piece, you have to glue somewhere behind your {disfmarker} stick it behind your T_V_ and the other {disfmarker}User Interface: {gap} stick it on the T_V_ {gap}.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Pray that you don't accidentally lose that piece. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Right.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: That'd be tough then. {vocalsound} Well also your remote would uh alarm you if somebody stole you t your television, yeah. Ran off with it without taking the beautiful remote control.Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah. {vocalsound}Marketing: So. Are we adding one of these two featuresIndustrial Designer: Let's add one of those features and say yes. {vocalsound}Marketing: {gap} gonna say {disfmarker} okay.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: So we're {vocalsound} back to a oneUser Interface: Two.Marketing: Or a twoProject Manager: Two.Industrial Designer: Two.Marketing: Two,'kay. Okay. Are we technologically innovativeIndustrial Designer: Uh completely with the ugly remote because the colour is ugly, definitely.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yep.Marketing: That's true. Yeah.Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer:'S nothing you can say about that. I mean I much prefer something like brushed chrome with that form.User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: But {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah something more modern to go {disfmarker} a a modern colour to go with the modern form.Industrial Designer: Right. Right. It's different. You don't want your uh three feet huge L_C_D_ dis display in your living room that's hanging from the wall to be controlled with something like that.Marketing: Um okay so, do you think, since we {disfmarker} This was a a sign criteria, do you think maybe we should put it somewhere in the middle thenIndustrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: Does that sound goodProject Manager: Yeah.User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: What do you think Three FourProject Manager: I would sayMarketing: FiveProject Manager: four. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah. {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Four is fair. Okay.Project Manager: Very non-committal, four.Marketing: Okay, the second one. Did we make it simple for new usersIndustrial Designer: It's very intuitive, I think yeah.User Interface: Yeah. I think that was the main aim, one of the main aims that we had.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} S give it a one.Marketing: One,Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing:'kay. Okay. Um, do the controls now match the operating behaviour of the usersUser Interface: Uh yeah.'Cause we've we've brought it down to basically four controls {gap} most common, which are channel and volume.Marketing: I'd say that {disfmarker}Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: Right.User Interface: And then the other ones are just a matter of just going, just scrolling further.Project Manager: S scrolling through and selecting a few.Industrial Designer: Right. So that's a one.Marketing: So oneProject Manager: I think that's a one.Marketing: Yeah {vocalsound} Okay. Okay um the fourth one. How about the problem of a

What did the team discuss during the product evaluation about its feature to solve customers'concerns

Generally speaking, the team agreed that the product was intuitive and had successfully incorporated main aims that the team had. The team believed the customers were not likely to lose the remote control since it was big and bright yellow with speech recognition. Moreover, Industrial Designer suggested adding an extra feature for the product to raise volume like hell when it was removed so far from the TV. However, the team also noted that costs should be compared when deciding to use annoying alarms or others.

doing. Um room for creativity There was that. Um I think we tried a lotta different things and um I think it was um interesting as you guys brought up more um information and studies that we were right on with a lot of those things. Um you guys worked together well as a team. And um the means Which was the whiteboard and the pens.User Interface: Yeah. We've used the whiteboard.Industrial Designer: Super super.Project Manager: I had some problem with the pen I think, but {vocalsound} minus your pMarketing: Minus your PowerPoint fiasco.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Well that's not my fault. That's obviously the people I work for uh that work for me,Marketing: No I know. I'm {disfmarker}Project Manager: Well {disfmarker}Marketing: yeah. Incom {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: uh they've just you know {disfmarker}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Have a {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Heads are gonna roll, believe me.Project Manager: we have a list of employees that you would like fired.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yes yes.Project Manager: Okay. N new ideas found Um {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Mm. Kinda.Project Manager: Yes for the remote. Maybe no not f forUser Interface: Technology used.Project Manager: technology. Alright. Closing. Costs are within the budget. Project is evaluated. Um complete the final questionnaire and meeting summary. That's it.User Interface: Excellent.Project Manager: And I still have to do my minutes for the last meeting. {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Actually. Um so there will probably be another questionnaire coming up. And then we'll have to check with the main boss whether we can, what goes on after that.Marketing: We might have a while though.Industrial Designer: {gap}.Project Manager: But that's the end of our meeting. Manager: by three Euros over.Industrial Designer: It's hard to believe. So we'll go for the hand dynamo huh {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: So the only thing better than um a banana-shaped remote is one that you shake.User Interface: If it w What if we completely took out the the one single button we've got on.Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: And just had a scroll wheel interface. And the L_C_D_ display. I suppose the L_C_D_ C_ display's the one that's pushing it up a bit though.Project Manager: Yeah'cause the {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Well'cause we have to have both rightUser Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: I mean let's let's face it, it also depends on the software on the on the television.User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: You can have the the information that this thing transmits be being displayed on the on the screen.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: So s yeah let's take away the {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah you could maybe take out the L_C_D_ dis display even,Industrial Designer: Yeah. Yeah.User Interface: if it if it comes up on the computer itsel on the T_V_ itself.Industrial Designer: Right.Project Manager: So we may not need the L_C_D_ displayUser Interface: Uh that is possible yeah.Industrial Designer: Right. We may not need it. There you go.Project Manager: Well there we go.Industrial Designer: Perfect.Project Manager: Twelve point five.User Interface: There we go.Marketing: {vocalsound} Perfect.Project Manager: Okay. So we just remove our {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: Screen.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: screen here.User Interface: Make it a bigger dial.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: Easier to use. Even easier to use then.Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Okay, the {disfmarker}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Besides look at what the L_C_D_ does to our lovely remote.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Back to the design room boys.Industrial Designer: So we can just take away fashion is b is Carmen Miranda, you betcha. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: More {disfmarker} {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah. {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Well the recent fashion is rather displayed in the in the L_C_D_ and the way you operate it than the form and the colour,User Interface: On the {disfmarker}Project Manager: It's true.User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: but it definitely is {disfmarker}User Interface: Be what we were told, and they'd say yeah, definitely.Industrial Designer: {gap}.Marketing:'Kay. Alright. Now we just gotta calculate. Six eight twelve sixteen. Seventeen divided by sUser Interface: {gap}.Project Manager: Seven is {disfmarker}Marketing: Eight.Project Manager: Two point {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {gap} two point fourUser Interface: Is that some long division No.Project Manager: Something.Marketing: Well I haven't done math in years.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: What two {disfmarker}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} I dunno.User Interface: Just, I'm sure there's a {gap}.Marketing: Okay we'll say two point four two. Right How does that lookIndustrial Designer: I'm impressed. I can't do that without a calculator. {vocalsound}User Interface: No I can't do long {gap}Marketing: {vocalsound} It's been a while.User Interface: very impressive.Project Manager: And what what is the acceptable criteria Is there like a scale that we have to hitMarketing: Oh no. They just told me toIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} pick my own criteria and have you guys evaluate it {vocalsound} basically.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Alright then.Marketing: So that's that.Project Manager: Okay. Well, let's see.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Now we get to do the budget numbers. You didn't know that you were gonna have a budget. But we do. Okay.User Interface: Yeah. Yeah so. You'd been going a long time dividing that. It's two point four two eight five se it just keeps going on.Marketing: Oh my god.User Interface: Two point four two basically.Marketing: Okay. Yeah we'll go with that.Project Manager: So I have here an {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Fifty percent, of course may be changed depending on budget.User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Y you could add an extra feature actually. Which makes this thing raise hell when you remove it too far from the television.User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: We could add that but that's nothing we have thought of so far.Project Manager: Which, which may be cheaper than speech recognition if it were just a {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yes.User Interface: Yeah true. But I mean d just those whistling, clapping key rings you have. They're cheap.Marketing: Annoying alarm or somethingProject Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: It's it's {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah.User Interface: So it can't be thatIndustrial Designer: Um the {disfmarker} it's based on this anti anti-theft technology for suitcases and stuff,User Interface: expensive.Project Manager: Some sort of proximity {vocalsound} {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: where you have one piece that's attached to your luggage, another piece that starts beeping. That can't cost much.User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: So that can also easily be integrated because these things are small enough to to hide, so you have one piece, you have to glue somewhere behind your {disfmarker} stick it behind your T_V_ and the other {disfmarker}User Interface: {gap} stick it on the T_V_ {gap}.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Pray that you don't accidentally lose that piece. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Right.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: That'd be tough then. {vocalsound} Well also your remote would uh alarm you if somebody stole you t your television, yeah. Ran off with it without taking the beautiful remote control.Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah. {vocalsound}Marketing: So. Are we adding one of these two featuresIndustrial Designer: Let's add one of those features and say yes. {vocalsound}Marketing: {gap} gonna say {disfmarker} okay.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: So we're {vocalsound} back to a oneUser Interface: Two.Marketing: Or a twoProject Manager: Two.Industrial Designer: Two.Marketing: Two,'kay. Okay. Are we technologically innovativeIndustrial Designer: Uh completely with the ugly remote because the colour is ugly, definitely.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yep.Marketing: That's true. Yeah.Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer:'S nothing you can say about that. I mean I much prefer something like brushed chrome with that form.User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: But {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah something more modern to go {disfmarker} a a modern colour to go with the modern form.Industrial Designer: Right. Right. It's different. You don't want your uh three feet huge L_C_D_ dis display in your living room that's hanging from the wall to be controlled with something like that.Marketing: Um okay so, do you think, since we {disfmarker} This was a a sign criteria, do you think maybe we should put it somewhere in the middle thenIndustrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: Does that sound goodProject Manager: Yeah.User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: What do you think Three FourProject Manager: I would sayMarketing: FiveProject Manager: four. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah. {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Four is fair. Okay.Project Manager: Very non-committal, four.Marketing: Okay, the second one. Did we make it simple for new usersIndustrial Designer: It's very intuitive, I think yeah.User Interface: Yeah. I think that was the main aim, one of the main aims that we had.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} S give it a one.Marketing: One,Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing:'kay. Okay. Um, do the controls now match the operating behaviour of the usersUser Interface: Uh yeah.'Cause we've we've brought it down to basically four controls {gap} most common, which are channel and volume.Marketing: I'd say that {disfmarker}Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: Right.User Interface: And then the other ones are just a matter of just going, just scrolling further.Project Manager: S scrolling through and selecting a few.Industrial Designer: Right. So that's a one.Marketing: So oneProject Manager: I think that's a one.Marketing: Yeah {vocalsound} Okay. Okay um the fourth one. How about the problem of a

How did the team evaluate the product about its technologically innovative features

To start with, the team agreed that the remote control was indeed innovative with the LCD display incorporated and the way it could be used both-handed with an alarming feature. Also, it aimed at the recent fashion trend since it looked like a banana with a special yellow colour. Although some of its features were identical to an iPod, the team believed that it was a creative design for remote control.

fashion is b is Carmen Miranda, you betcha. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: More {disfmarker} {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah. {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Well the recent fashion is rather displayed in the in the L_C_D_ and the way you operate it than the form and the colour,User Interface: On the {disfmarker}Project Manager: It's true.User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: but it definitely is {disfmarker}User Interface: Be what we were told, and they'd say yeah, definitely.Industrial Designer: {gap}.Marketing:'Kay. Alright. Now we just gotta calculate. Six eight twelve sixteen. Seventeen divided by sUser Interface: {gap}.Project Manager: Seven is {disfmarker}Marketing: Eight.Project Manager: Two point {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {gap} two point fourUser Interface: Is that some long division No.Project Manager: Something.Marketing: Well I haven't done math in years.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: What two {disfmarker}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} I dunno.User Interface: Just, I'm sure there's a {gap}.Marketing: Okay we'll say two point four two. Right How does that lookIndustrial Designer: I'm impressed. I can't do that without a calculator. {vocalsound}User Interface: No I can't do long {gap}Marketing: {vocalsound} It's been a while.User Interface: very impressive.Project Manager: And what what is the acceptable criteria Is there like a scale that we have to hitMarketing: Oh no. They just told me toIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} pick my own criteria and have you guys evaluate it {vocalsound} basically.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Alright then.Marketing: So that's that.Project Manager: Okay. Well, let's see.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Now we get to do the budget numbers. You didn't know that you were gonna have a budget. But we do. Okay.User Interface: Yeah. Yeah so. You'd been going a long time dividing that. It's two point four two eight five se it just keeps going on.Marketing: Oh my god.User Interface: Two point four two basically.Marketing: Okay. Yeah we'll go with that.Project Manager: So I have here an {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Fifty percent, doing. Um room for creativity There was that. Um I think we tried a lotta different things and um I think it was um interesting as you guys brought up more um information and studies that we were right on with a lot of those things. Um you guys worked together well as a team. And um the means Which was the whiteboard and the pens.User Interface: Yeah. We've used the whiteboard.Industrial Designer: Super super.Project Manager: I had some problem with the pen I think, but {vocalsound} minus your pMarketing: Minus your PowerPoint fiasco.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Well that's not my fault. That's obviously the people I work for uh that work for me,Marketing: No I know. I'm {disfmarker}Project Manager: Well {disfmarker}Marketing: yeah. Incom {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: uh they've just you know {disfmarker}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Have a {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Heads are gonna roll, believe me.Project Manager: we have a list of employees that you would like fired.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yes yes.Project Manager: Okay. N new ideas found Um {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Mm. Kinda.Project Manager: Yes for the remote. Maybe no not f forUser Interface: Technology used.Project Manager: technology. Alright. Closing. Costs are within the budget. Project is evaluated. Um complete the final questionnaire and meeting summary. That's it.User Interface: Excellent.Project Manager: And I still have to do my minutes for the last meeting. {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Actually. Um so there will probably be another questionnaire coming up. And then we'll have to check with the main boss whether we can, what goes on after that.Marketing: We might have a while though.Industrial Designer: {gap}.Project Manager: But that's the end of our meeting. Manager: by three Euros over.Industrial Designer: It's hard to believe. So we'll go for the hand dynamo huh {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: So the only thing better than um a banana-shaped remote is one that you shake.User Interface: If it w What if we completely took out the the one single button we've got on.Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: And just had a scroll wheel interface. And the L_C_D_ display. I suppose the L_C_D_ C_ display's the one that's pushing it up a bit though.Project Manager: Yeah'cause the {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Well'cause we have to have both rightUser Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: I mean let's let's face it, it also depends on the software on the on the television.User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: You can have the the information that this thing transmits be being displayed on the on the screen.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: So s yeah let's take away the {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah you could maybe take out the L_C_D_ dis display even,Industrial Designer: Yeah. Yeah.User Interface: if it if it comes up on the computer itsel on the T_V_ itself.Industrial Designer: Right.Project Manager: So we may not need the L_C_D_ displayUser Interface: Uh that is possible yeah.Industrial Designer: Right. We may not need it. There you go.Project Manager: Well there we go.Industrial Designer: Perfect.Project Manager: Twelve point five.User Interface: There we go.Marketing: {vocalsound} Perfect.Project Manager: Okay. So we just remove our {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: Screen.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: screen here.User Interface: Make it a bigger dial.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: Easier to use. Even easier to use then.Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Okay, the {disfmarker}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Besides look at what the L_C_D_ does to our lovely remote.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Back to the design room boys.Industrial Designer: So we can just take away of course may be changed depending on budget.User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Y you could add an extra feature actually. Which makes this thing raise hell when you remove it too far from the television.User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: We could add that but that's nothing we have thought of so far.Project Manager: Which, which may be cheaper than speech recognition if it were just a {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yes.User Interface: Yeah true. But I mean d just those whistling, clapping key rings you have. They're cheap.Marketing: Annoying alarm or somethingProject Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: It's it's {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah.User Interface: So it can't be thatIndustrial Designer: Um the {disfmarker} it's based on this anti anti-theft technology for suitcases and stuff,User Interface: expensive.Project Manager: Some sort of proximity {vocalsound} {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: where you have one piece that's attached to your luggage, another piece that starts beeping. That can't cost much.User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: So that can also easily be integrated because these things are small enough to to hide, so you have one piece, you have to glue somewhere behind your {disfmarker} stick it behind your T_V_ and the other {disfmarker}User Interface: {gap} stick it on the T_V_ {gap}.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Pray that you don't accidentally lose that piece. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Right.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: That'd be tough then. {vocalsound} Well also your remote would uh alarm you if somebody stole you t your television, yeah. Ran off with it without taking the beautiful remote control.Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah. {vocalsound}Marketing: So. Are we adding one of these two featuresIndustrial Designer: Let's add one of those features and say yes. {vocalsound}Marketing: {gap} gonna say {disfmarker} okay.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: So we're {vocalsound} back to a oneUser Interface: Two.Marketing: Or a twoProject Manager: Two.Industrial Designer: Two.Marketing: Two,'kay. Okay. Are we technologically innovativeIndustrial Designer: Uh completely with the ugly remote because the colour is ugly, definitely.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yep.Marketing: That's true. Yeah.Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer:'S nothing you can say about that. I mean I much prefer something like brushed chrome with that form.User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: But {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah something more modern to go {disfmarker} a a modern colour to go with the modern form.Industrial Designer: Right. Right. It's different. You don't want your uh three feet huge L_C_D_ dis display in your living room that's hanging from the wall to be controlled with something like that.Marketing: Um okay so, do you think, since we {disfmarker} This was a a sign criteria, do you think maybe we should put it somewhere in the middle thenIndustrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: Does that sound goodProject Manager: Yeah.User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: What do you think Three FourProject Manager: I would sayMarketing: FiveProject Manager: four. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah. {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Four is fair. Okay.Project Manager: Very non-committal, four.Marketing: Okay, the second one. Did we make it simple for new usersIndustrial Designer: It's very intuitive, I think yeah.User Interface: Yeah. I think that was the main aim, one of the main aims that we had.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} S give it a one.Marketing: One,Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing:'kay. Okay. Um, do the controls now match the operating behaviour of the usersUser Interface: Uh yeah.'Cause we've we've brought it down to basically four controls {gap} most common, which are channel and volume.Marketing: I'd say that {disfmarker}Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: Right.User Interface: And then the other ones are just a matter of just going, just scrolling further.Project Manager: S scrolling through and selecting a few.Industrial Designer: Right. So that's a one.Marketing: So oneProject Manager: I think that's a one.Marketing: Yeah {vocalsound} Okay. Okay um the fourth one. How about the problem of a

What did the team discuss about the product cost

Project Manager first introduced the budget and broke it down to parts like batteries, electronics, case material supplements, interface type and then button supplements. The team agreed that the push button, integrated scroll-wheel and the LCD display cost a lot but case materials were all the same. In this case, the team decided to discard the LCD since the information it could transmit could also be simply displayed on the screen. As for the recognition feature, the team decided to make it a big deal to be alarming. And lastly, the product would be pure yellow instead of a blue button.

doing. Um room for creativity There was that. Um I think we tried a lotta different things and um I think it was um interesting as you guys brought up more um information and studies that we were right on with a lot of those things. Um you guys worked together well as a team. And um the means Which was the whiteboard and the pens.User Interface: Yeah. We've used the whiteboard.Industrial Designer: Super super.Project Manager: I had some problem with the pen I think, but {vocalsound} minus your pMarketing: Minus your PowerPoint fiasco.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Well that's not my fault. That's obviously the people I work for uh that work for me,Marketing: No I know. I'm {disfmarker}Project Manager: Well {disfmarker}Marketing: yeah. Incom {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: uh they've just you know {disfmarker}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Have a {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Heads are gonna roll, believe me.Project Manager: we have a list of employees that you would like fired.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yes yes.Project Manager: Okay. N new ideas found Um {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Mm. Kinda.Project Manager: Yes for the remote. Maybe no not f forUser Interface: Technology used.Project Manager: technology. Alright. Closing. Costs are within the budget. Project is evaluated. Um complete the final questionnaire and meeting summary. That's it.User Interface: Excellent.Project Manager: And I still have to do my minutes for the last meeting. {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Actually. Um so there will probably be another questionnaire coming up. And then we'll have to check with the main boss whether we can, what goes on after that.Marketing: We might have a while though.Industrial Designer: {gap}.Project Manager: But that's the end of our meeting. Manager: by three Euros over.Industrial Designer: It's hard to believe. So we'll go for the hand dynamo huh {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: So the only thing better than um a banana-shaped remote is one that you shake.User Interface: If it w What if we completely took out the the one single button we've got on.Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: And just had a scroll wheel interface. And the L_C_D_ display. I suppose the L_C_D_ C_ display's the one that's pushing it up a bit though.Project Manager: Yeah'cause the {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Well'cause we have to have both rightUser Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: I mean let's let's face it, it also depends on the software on the on the television.User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: You can have the the information that this thing transmits be being displayed on the on the screen.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: So s yeah let's take away the {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah you could maybe take out the L_C_D_ dis display even,Industrial Designer: Yeah. Yeah.User Interface: if it if it comes up on the computer itsel on the T_V_ itself.Industrial Designer: Right.Project Manager: So we may not need the L_C_D_ displayUser Interface: Uh that is possible yeah.Industrial Designer: Right. We may not need it. There you go.Project Manager: Well there we go.Industrial Designer: Perfect.Project Manager: Twelve point five.User Interface: There we go.Marketing: {vocalsound} Perfect.Project Manager: Okay. So we just remove our {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: Screen.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: screen here.User Interface: Make it a bigger dial.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: Easier to use. Even easier to use then.Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Okay, the {disfmarker}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Besides look at what the L_C_D_ does to our lovely remote.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Back to the design room boys.Industrial Designer: So we can just take away fashion is b is Carmen Miranda, you betcha. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: More {disfmarker} {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah. {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Well the recent fashion is rather displayed in the in the L_C_D_ and the way you operate it than the form and the colour,User Interface: On the {disfmarker}Project Manager: It's true.User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: but it definitely is {disfmarker}User Interface: Be what we were told, and they'd say yeah, definitely.Industrial Designer: {gap}.Marketing:'Kay. Alright. Now we just gotta calculate. Six eight twelve sixteen. Seventeen divided by sUser Interface: {gap}.Project Manager: Seven is {disfmarker}Marketing: Eight.Project Manager: Two point {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {gap} two point fourUser Interface: Is that some long division No.Project Manager: Something.Marketing: Well I haven't done math in years.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: What two {disfmarker}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} I dunno.User Interface: Just, I'm sure there's a {gap}.Marketing: Okay we'll say two point four two. Right How does that lookIndustrial Designer: I'm impressed. I can't do that without a calculator. {vocalsound}User Interface: No I can't do long {gap}Marketing: {vocalsound} It's been a while.User Interface: very impressive.Project Manager: And what what is the acceptable criteria Is there like a scale that we have to hitMarketing: Oh no. They just told me toIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} pick my own criteria and have you guys evaluate it {vocalsound} basically.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Alright then.Marketing: So that's that.Project Manager: Okay. Well, let's see.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Now we get to do the budget numbers. You didn't know that you were gonna have a budget. But we do. Okay.User Interface: Yeah. Yeah so. You'd been going a long time dividing that. It's two point four two eight five se it just keeps going on.Marketing: Oh my god.User Interface: Two point four two basically.Marketing: Okay. Yeah we'll go with that.Project Manager: So I have here an {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Fifty percent, of course may be changed depending on budget.User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Y you could add an extra feature actually. Which makes this thing raise hell when you remove it too far from the television.User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: We could add that but that's nothing we have thought of so far.Project Manager: Which, which may be cheaper than speech recognition if it were just a {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yes.User Interface: Yeah true. But I mean d just those whistling, clapping key rings you have. They're cheap.Marketing: Annoying alarm or somethingProject Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: It's it's {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah.User Interface: So it can't be thatIndustrial Designer: Um the {disfmarker} it's based on this anti anti-theft technology for suitcases and stuff,User Interface: expensive.Project Manager: Some sort of proximity {vocalsound} {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: where you have one piece that's attached to your luggage, another piece that starts beeping. That can't cost much.User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: So that can also easily be integrated because these things are small enough to to hide, so you have one piece, you have to glue somewhere behind your {disfmarker} stick it behind your T_V_ and the other {disfmarker}User Interface: {gap} stick it on the T_V_ {gap}.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Pray that you don't accidentally lose that piece. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Right.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: That'd be tough then. {vocalsound} Well also your remote would uh alarm you if somebody stole you t your television, yeah. Ran off with it without taking the beautiful remote control.Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah. {vocalsound}Marketing: So. Are we adding one of these two featuresIndustrial Designer: Let's add one of those features and say yes. {vocalsound}Marketing: {gap} gonna say {disfmarker} okay.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: So we're {vocalsound} back to a oneUser Interface: Two.Marketing: Or a twoProject Manager: Two.Industrial Designer: Two.Marketing: Two,'kay. Okay. Are we technologically innovativeIndustrial Designer: Uh completely with the ugly remote because the colour is ugly, definitely.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yep.Marketing: That's true. Yeah.Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer:'S nothing you can say about that. I mean I much prefer something like brushed chrome with that form.User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: But {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah something more modern to go {disfmarker} a a modern colour to go with the modern form.Industrial Designer: Right. Right. It's different. You don't want your uh three feet huge L_C_D_ dis display in your living room that's hanging from the wall to be controlled with something like that.Marketing: Um okay so, do you think, since we {disfmarker} This was a a sign criteria, do you think maybe we should put it somewhere in the middle thenIndustrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: Does that sound goodProject Manager: Yeah.User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: What do you think Three FourProject Manager: I would sayMarketing: FiveProject Manager: four. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah. {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Four is fair. Okay.Project Manager: Very non-committal, four.Marketing: Okay, the second one. Did we make it simple for new usersIndustrial Designer: It's very intuitive, I think yeah.User Interface: Yeah. I think that was the main aim, one of the main aims that we had.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} S give it a one.Marketing: One,Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing:'kay. Okay. Um, do the controls now match the operating behaviour of the usersUser Interface: Uh yeah.'Cause we've we've brought it down to basically four controls {gap} most common, which are channel and volume.Marketing: I'd say that {disfmarker}Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: Right.User Interface: And then the other ones are just a matter of just going, just scrolling further.Project Manager: S scrolling through and selecting a few.Industrial Designer: Right. So that's a one.Marketing: So oneProject Manager: I think that's a one.Marketing: Yeah {vocalsound} Okay. Okay um the fourth one. How about the problem of a

What did the team say about the project and overall process

The team thought they had a really great team work experience. Everyone had put efforts into the process and gave opinions to design a good remote control. Also, the process incorporated different stages and new ideas could always be added based on the market finds.

doing. Um room for creativity There was that. Um I think we tried a lotta different things and um I think it was um interesting as you guys brought up more um information and studies that we were right on with a lot of those things. Um you guys worked together well as a team. And um the means Which was the whiteboard and the pens.User Interface: Yeah. We've used the whiteboard.Industrial Designer: Super super.Project Manager: I had some problem with the pen I think, but {vocalsound} minus your pMarketing: Minus your PowerPoint fiasco.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Well that's not my fault. That's obviously the people I work for uh that work for me,Marketing: No I know. I'm {disfmarker}Project Manager: Well {disfmarker}Marketing: yeah. Incom {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: uh they've just you know {disfmarker}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Have a {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Heads are gonna roll, believe me.Project Manager: we have a list of employees that you would like fired.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yes yes.Project Manager: Okay. N new ideas found Um {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Mm. Kinda.Project Manager: Yes for the remote. Maybe no not f forUser Interface: Technology used.Project Manager: technology. Alright. Closing. Costs are within the budget. Project is evaluated. Um complete the final questionnaire and meeting summary. That's it.User Interface: Excellent.Project Manager: And I still have to do my minutes for the last meeting. {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Actually. Um so there will probably be another questionnaire coming up. And then we'll have to check with the main boss whether we can, what goes on after that.Marketing: We might have a while though.Industrial Designer: {gap}.Project Manager: But that's the end of our meeting. of course may be changed depending on budget.User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Y you could add an extra feature actually. Which makes this thing raise hell when you remove it too far from the television.User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: We could add that but that's nothing we have thought of so far.Project Manager: Which, which may be cheaper than speech recognition if it were just a {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yes.User Interface: Yeah true. But I mean d just those whistling, clapping key rings you have. They're cheap.Marketing: Annoying alarm or somethingProject Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: It's it's {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah.User Interface: So it can't be thatIndustrial Designer: Um the {disfmarker} it's based on this anti anti-theft technology for suitcases and stuff,User Interface: expensive.Project Manager: Some sort of proximity {vocalsound} {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: where you have one piece that's attached to your luggage, another piece that starts beeping. That can't cost much.User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: So that can also easily be integrated because these things are small enough to to hide, so you have one piece, you have to glue somewhere behind your {disfmarker} stick it behind your T_V_ and the other {disfmarker}User Interface: {gap} stick it on the T_V_ {gap}.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Pray that you don't accidentally lose that piece. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Right.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: That'd be tough then. {vocalsound} Well also your remote would uh alarm you if somebody stole you t your television, yeah. Ran off with it without taking the beautiful remote control.Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah. {vocalsound}Marketing: So. Are we adding one of these two featuresIndustrial Designer: Let's add one of those features and say yes. {vocalsound}Marketing: {gap} gonna say {disfmarker} okay.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: So we're {vocalsound} back to a oneUser Interface: Two.Marketing: Or a twoProject Manager: Two.Industrial Designer: Two.Marketing: Two,'kay. Okay. Are we technologically innovativeIndustrial Designer: Uh Manager: by three Euros over.Industrial Designer: It's hard to believe. So we'll go for the hand dynamo huh {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: So the only thing better than um a banana-shaped remote is one that you shake.User Interface: If it w What if we completely took out the the one single button we've got on.Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: And just had a scroll wheel interface. And the L_C_D_ display. I suppose the L_C_D_ C_ display's the one that's pushing it up a bit though.Project Manager: Yeah'cause the {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Well'cause we have to have both rightUser Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: I mean let's let's face it, it also depends on the software on the on the television.User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: You can have the the information that this thing transmits be being displayed on the on the screen.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: So s yeah let's take away the {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah you could maybe take out the L_C_D_ dis display even,Industrial Designer: Yeah. Yeah.User Interface: if it if it comes up on the computer itsel on the T_V_ itself.Industrial Designer: Right.Project Manager: So we may not need the L_C_D_ displayUser Interface: Uh that is possible yeah.Industrial Designer: Right. We may not need it. There you go.Project Manager: Well there we go.Industrial Designer: Perfect.Project Manager: Twelve point five.User Interface: There we go.Marketing: {vocalsound} Perfect.Project Manager: Okay. So we just remove our {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: Screen.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: screen here.User Interface: Make it a bigger dial.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: Easier to use. Even easier to use then.Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Okay, the {disfmarker}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Besides look at what the L_C_D_ does to our lovely remote.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Back to the design room boys.Industrial Designer: So we can just take away fashion is b is Carmen Miranda, you betcha. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: More {disfmarker} {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah. {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Well the recent fashion is rather displayed in the in the L_C_D_ and the way you operate it than the form and the colour,User Interface: On the {disfmarker}Project Manager: It's true.User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: but it definitely is {disfmarker}User Interface: Be what we were told, and they'd say yeah, definitely.Industrial Designer: {gap}.Marketing:'Kay. Alright. Now we just gotta calculate. Six eight twelve sixteen. Seventeen divided by sUser Interface: {gap}.Project Manager: Seven is {disfmarker}Marketing: Eight.Project Manager: Two point {disfmarker}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {gap} two point fourUser Interface: Is that some long division No.Project Manager: Something.Marketing: Well I haven't done math in years.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: What two {disfmarker}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} I dunno.User Interface: Just, I'm sure there's a {gap}.Marketing: Okay we'll say two point four two. Right How does that lookIndustrial Designer: I'm impressed. I can't do that without a calculator. {vocalsound}User Interface: No I can't do long {gap}Marketing: {vocalsound} It's been a while.User Interface: very impressive.Project Manager: And what what is the acceptable criteria Is there like a scale that we have to hitMarketing: Oh no. They just told me toIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} pick my own criteria and have you guys evaluate it {vocalsound} basically.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Alright then.Marketing: So that's that.Project Manager: Okay. Well, let's see.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Now we get to do the budget numbers. You didn't know that you were gonna have a budget. But we do. Okay.User Interface: Yeah. Yeah so. You'd been going a long time dividing that. It's two point four two eight five se it just keeps going on.Marketing: Oh my god.User Interface: Two point four two basically.Marketing: Okay. Yeah we'll go with that.Project Manager: So I have here an {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Fifty percent, completely with the ugly remote because the colour is ugly, definitely.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yep.Marketing: That's true. Yeah.Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer:'S nothing you can say about that. I mean I much prefer something like brushed chrome with that form.User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: But {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah something more modern to go {disfmarker} a a modern colour to go with the modern form.Industrial Designer: Right. Right. It's different. You don't want your uh three feet huge L_C_D_ dis display in your living room that's hanging from the wall to be controlled with something like that.Marketing: Um okay so, do you think, since we {disfmarker} This was a a sign criteria, do you think maybe we should put it somewhere in the middle thenIndustrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: Does that sound goodProject Manager: Yeah.User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: What do you think Three FourProject Manager: I would sayMarketing: FiveProject Manager: four. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Yeah. {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Four is fair. Okay.Project Manager: Very non-committal, four.Marketing: Okay, the second one. Did we make it simple for new usersIndustrial Designer: It's very intuitive, I think yeah.User Interface: Yeah. I think that was the main aim, one of the main aims that we had.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} S give it a one.Marketing: One,Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing:'kay. Okay. Um, do the controls now match the operating behaviour of the usersUser Interface: Uh yeah.'Cause we've we've brought it down to basically four controls {gap} most common, which are channel and volume.Marketing: I'd say that {disfmarker}Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: Right.User Interface: And then the other ones are just a matter of just going, just scrolling further.Project Manager: S scrolling through and selecting a few.Industrial Designer: Right. So that's a one.Marketing: So oneProject Manager: I think that's a one.Marketing: Yeah {vocalsound} Okay. Okay um the fourth one. How about the problem of a

Summarize the whole meeting.

Firstly, Project Manager reviewed the overall process that the team designed the remote control that they had viewed the fashion trends and incorporated the key features. After that, User Interface introduced the prototype of remote control based on the previous discussion of its function. The prototype was yellow like a banana with a simplest quick on-off button and could be used both-handed. Secondly, Marketing designed an evaluation test according to criteria found of the market trend as well as the customers'complaints and the team gave one to seven points to the shape, colour, material, controls and functions of the product. Thirdly, the team found that the current product exceeded the budget, so the team decided to completely discard the single button and LCD. Lastly, the team gave positive feedback on the project and the process.

That's this bit right here. And uh this bit is this one easy to use for visitors or for anybody I guess it's just the same as saying easy to use interface, so it's kinda condensed into one. And we can come back to it, you said.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: So.Project Manager: No and which we will do very very shortly. Um. Okay. Slight problem we had was that we have an amazing four Euros over budget for what we were hoping to do. Um most of it stems from the use of the L_C_D_ which I think in the end accounted for about half of our expenditure because of course we required a chip as well. Um the only way to get this down was either to ditch the a L_C_D_, at which point we've removed a large part of how we were gonna interface, {gap} require more buttons, etcetera. Or what we did was that we um we as in I as I was quickly going over it was altering the actual structure. Um changing it to plastic and a solid unit with a single curve design would allow us to come back into the um proposed costs and we're just scraping it in, we've got point two of a Euro left over there. So we're just managing it really. Even then as well, um there was no criteria technically defined for a joystick so I've used what I think's appropriate. With any luck that won't mean that we've incurred more cost than we can actually afford to. It blows a lot of our really good ideas kind of slightly to one side, for example the possibility of having a U_S_B_ connection is definitely not viable now. Um.Marketing: Different languagesProject Manager: That should still be viable. We've got an Project Manager: That should hopefully do the trick, um.'Kay. Sorry about the small delay. Falling a little bit behind schedule. And that's uh fifteen twenty five. Okay. So just to try and roughly go over what we agreed in the last one, um we're gonna go for something uh uh how was it Uh The new black, I believe.Marketing: {gap}.Project Manager: Um something that looks good'cause that seems to be in preference to actual functionality in the end, though we should never avoid functionality, of course. Uh many of our components are gonna be standard, off the shelf, but it seemed like we were gonna require at least an advanced chip and we were still very much for the idea of using an L_C_D_ display. Um other things were we were hoping to use rubber, most likely gonna be double curved, etcetera. Okay. So um due to your hard work, we might as well let the uh two designers go first, and uh show us the prototype.User Interface: Okay, it's a {disfmarker}Project Manager: Quite how the best way to do this is, I'm not sure,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: {gap} I think if we both step upProject Manager: but {disfmarker}User Interface: and uh outline our ideas. Okay. Now do {disfmarker} uh doing the prototype gave us a bit more insight into the ergonomics of the design. Um for one thing, it turned out that the only point at which it needs to be articulated for handedness is um is h i is down here for the uh L_E_D_. As it turned out, the whole thing transfers from the right to left hand fairly well from the point of view of operating the uh function buttons and joystick, though it might be an idea to be able to a adjust the positions had to get this in, to have a positive {disfmarker} you know, even based on the four of us being heavily biased, umMarketing: Mm-hmm. Yeah.Project Manager: {vocalsound} it was gonna be quite hard to get anything standing out I'd say possibly, based on um the the cost features.User Interface: Mm.Industrial Designer: Mm, yeah.Marketing: Even if we were to increase this entire thing by by seven, we were to go down a grade to to four, we would have to do {disfmarker} I mean we didn't we weren't that kinda optimistic too optim overly optimistic. You know like we didn't we didn't add we didn't subtract a whole seven points from these things, so I think we're definitely on the good bit.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Even if we gave this one seven and this one seven, that's still only three extra points over seven. You know, it's {disfmarker} yeah,User Interface: Mm. Personally, I think given that the product um only replaces a single remote controlMarketing: we did it w it was okay. It was good.User Interface: that you've already got, are people really gonna shell out twenty five Euros for something that's only marginally goodIndustrial Designer: Well, it depends who your {disfmarker} who's {disfmarker} what the target people are, like you'd say maybe the fashion consciousProject Manager: Maybe it's been targeted {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: women would be going, oh look at that,'s cool, it looks like a {disfmarker}Marketing: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: it's yellow, looks like a banana, it's cool it's gotta {disfmarker} look good in the sitting room.Project Manager: Hide it in the fruit basket.Industrial Designer: Rather than the L_C_D_ whereas uh more technical like like more uh people in with the latest technology {gap} it's good, it's got an L_C_D_ screen's only got two buttons and a joystick. So, which which kind of for what a joystick might be, that that's what I've labelled it for the purposes of this evaluation.Industrial Designer: So {disfmarker} The L_C_D_ basically is the big selling point ofProject Manager: If we remove the L_C_ display, we could save ourselvesIndustrial Designer: the remote.Project Manager: a fair amount. Which you could {vocalsound} {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: But that's what makes it uh original though,User Interface: Mm. I think {gap} if we remove the the L_C_ display then there was absolutely no point to any of these meetingsMarketing: Yeah. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: isn't itUser Interface: and we just {gap} we could just put our branding on any other remote control.Marketing: Yeah. Yeah. Um. Uh kProject Manager: It's a shame. We should possibly have {disfmarker} If we could've increased the price we could've manufactured that and we could've got something far closer to what we were hoping to.Marketing: Does this does this bear in mind that {disfmarker} I mean it's a bit ridiculous that they're gonna charge us what is it, like this much money for three million if we're gonna buy three million components,Project Manager: Again, you'll have to argue with the accountants on that one.Marketing: you know.Project Manager: Um but for the purposes of this meeting, I'm {disfmarker} we're gonna have to stick with these figures.Marketing: Mm.'Kay.Project Manager: So, I would say that it would seem like the general opinion is we're gonna keep the L_C_ display'cause it's about what really separates us, {vocalsound} despite the cost it's gonna incur. UmMarketing: I think so.Project Manager: are people maybe not happy with, but are willing to go ahead with this in going for a plastic solid case, to keep the L_C_D_User Interface: Mm-hmm. Um yeah {gap} I mean one thing, I mean ho uh how much extra would it be to to keep I until you know the costs. Um. Okay. Are the costs within budget Well,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: they are now that we have our slightly less than capable product.Marketing: Okay.Project Manager: We've evaluated it, and we can say that we came out with a value of three.Marketing: Yeah.User Interface: Actually I want th one thing I would say {disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: I mean something that could perhaps be part of the product mm the um m product testing market research process would be to uh produce mock-ups of both versions and see just how much of a difference the over {gap} going over-budget um m would make to sales.Project Manager: It's {disfmarker} yeahMarketing: And like response from consumers {gap}.User Interface: And we could even you know, market two versions.Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: Wee cheapie version with the nice bio-morphic rubber. {vocalsound}Project Manager: And then the final one where you get to call it Hal.User Interface: Yes.Project Manager: But we'll go into that later.Marketing: {vocalsound} Sure.Project Manager: Right umMarketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: is there anything else that anybody would like to to add, um {gap} anything they think that's not been covered, before I quickly write up a final report. Um I dunno, I mean we've got a product. We maybe aren't as happy with it as we'd like to be, but we've got something we think we can maybe stick onto the the market and sell. And of course something we have been avoiding talking about'cause of we've no information is selling them directly to the manufacturers. There is a huge market.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: I mean we've briefly touched on it but we've no more knowledge then there's little we can say on that.Marketing: Yeah.User Interface: Mm.Project Manager: Yeah. So um unless anybody's got anything they'd like to add, we can maybe round this up slightly earlier than we'd need to and then we can finish up the writing and such.User Interface: And I can get my bus. Okay.Project Manager: YeahMarketing: Yeah. Okay, let's {disfmarker}Project Manager: Uh thank you for your participation.Marketing: Thank you.User Interface: Thank you.Marketing: {vocalsound} I was actually kind of upset you know at the budget, and that we had to cut a lot of stuff. It's like man, we we can't have the locator thing. And s yeah that's just bad. Do you think maybe {gap} the prices were were madeProject Manager: That {gap} a question we can ask {gap}. {vocalsound}

What did the group discuss about budget balancing

The use of the LCD screen and the advanced chip cost the team half of the expenditure. Due to the budget limit, the team had to abandon some other designs such as the rubber material and the double-curved structure. The USB connection was not feasible for now as well. For the location function, a transmitter, a receiver and speakers could be incorporated on a TV instead.

That's this bit right here. And uh this bit is this one easy to use for visitors or for anybody I guess it's just the same as saying easy to use interface, so it's kinda condensed into one. And we can come back to it, you said.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: So.Project Manager: No and which we will do very very shortly. Um. Okay. Slight problem we had was that we have an amazing four Euros over budget for what we were hoping to do. Um most of it stems from the use of the L_C_D_ which I think in the end accounted for about half of our expenditure because of course we required a chip as well. Um the only way to get this down was either to ditch the a L_C_D_, at which point we've removed a large part of how we were gonna interface, {gap} require more buttons, etcetera. Or what we did was that we um we as in I as I was quickly going over it was altering the actual structure. Um changing it to plastic and a solid unit with a single curve design would allow us to come back into the um proposed costs and we're just scraping it in, we've got point two of a Euro left over there. So we're just managing it really. Even then as well, um there was no criteria technically defined for a joystick so I've used what I think's appropriate. With any luck that won't mean that we've incurred more cost than we can actually afford to. It blows a lot of our really good ideas kind of slightly to one side, for example the possibility of having a U_S_B_ connection is definitely not viable now. Um.Marketing: Different languagesProject Manager: That should still be viable. We've got an until you know the costs. Um. Okay. Are the costs within budget Well,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: they are now that we have our slightly less than capable product.Marketing: Okay.Project Manager: We've evaluated it, and we can say that we came out with a value of three.Marketing: Yeah.User Interface: Actually I want th one thing I would say {disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: I mean something that could perhaps be part of the product mm the um m product testing market research process would be to uh produce mock-ups of both versions and see just how much of a difference the over {gap} going over-budget um m would make to sales.Project Manager: It's {disfmarker} yeahMarketing: And like response from consumers {gap}.User Interface: And we could even you know, market two versions.Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: Wee cheapie version with the nice bio-morphic rubber. {vocalsound}Project Manager: And then the final one where you get to call it Hal.User Interface: Yes.Project Manager: But we'll go into that later.Marketing: {vocalsound} Sure.Project Manager: Right umMarketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: is there anything else that anybody would like to to add, um {gap} anything they think that's not been covered, before I quickly write up a final report. Um I dunno, I mean we've got a product. We maybe aren't as happy with it as we'd like to be, but we've got something we think we can maybe stick onto the the market and sell. And of course something we have been avoiding talking about'cause of we've no information is selling them directly to the manufacturers. There is a huge market.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: I mean we've briefly touched on it but we've no more knowledge then there's little we can say on that.Marketing: Yeah.User Interface: Mm.Project Manager: Yeah. So um unless anybody's got anything they'd like to add, we can maybe round this up slightly earlier than we'd need to and then we can finish up the writing and such.User Interface: And I can get my bus. Okay.Project Manager: YeahMarketing: Yeah. Okay, let's {disfmarker}Project Manager: Uh thank you for your participation.Marketing: Thank you.User Interface: Thank you.Marketing: {vocalsound} I was actually kind of upset you know at the budget, and that we had to cut a lot of stuff. It's like man, we we can't have the locator thing. And s yeah that's just bad. Do you think maybe {gap} the prices were were madeProject Manager: That {gap} a question we can ask {gap}. {vocalsound} for what a joystick might be, that that's what I've labelled it for the purposes of this evaluation.Industrial Designer: So {disfmarker} The L_C_D_ basically is the big selling point ofProject Manager: If we remove the L_C_ display, we could save ourselvesIndustrial Designer: the remote.Project Manager: a fair amount. Which you could {vocalsound} {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: But that's what makes it uh original though,User Interface: Mm. I think {gap} if we remove the the L_C_ display then there was absolutely no point to any of these meetingsMarketing: Yeah. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: isn't itUser Interface: and we just {gap} we could just put our branding on any other remote control.Marketing: Yeah. Yeah. Um. Uh kProject Manager: It's a shame. We should possibly have {disfmarker} If we could've increased the price we could've manufactured that and we could've got something far closer to what we were hoping to.Marketing: Does this does this bear in mind that {disfmarker} I mean it's a bit ridiculous that they're gonna charge us what is it, like this much money for three million if we're gonna buy three million components,Project Manager: Again, you'll have to argue with the accountants on that one.Marketing: you know.Project Manager: Um but for the purposes of this meeting, I'm {disfmarker} we're gonna have to stick with these figures.Marketing: Mm.'Kay.Project Manager: So, I would say that it would seem like the general opinion is we're gonna keep the L_C_ display'cause it's about what really separates us, {vocalsound} despite the cost it's gonna incur. UmMarketing: I think so.Project Manager: are people maybe not happy with, but are willing to go ahead with this in going for a plastic solid case, to keep the L_C_D_User Interface: Mm-hmm. Um yeah {gap} I mean one thing, I mean ho uh how much extra would it be to to keep I for the base of the joystick just a little bit for uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay.User Interface: {gap} ju just a thought. You could simply have a slightly ovoid shaped joystick that could then just be turn uh twisted round, so that the uh sticky uh so that the bit that sticks out a bit more is on one side or the other. But as you as you see with the uh {vocalsound} with holding it in the left hand, the L_ uh the L_C_D_ is nowhere useful, so that would need to be articulated uh if we're going to retain {gap} ergonomic design. Um now I I got your note about uh keeping the cost down.Project Manager: I'm afraid yeah.User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: We'll go into that a bit more,User Interface: {gap} this design could be done with um with uh plastic casing.Project Manager: but please go on.User Interface: Though I would recommend around the grip part here in the middle, having maybe just a rubber grip over that which would allow for a slightly more sort of bio-morphic form, and a bit more ergonomic as well. As for the um as for the single curve, um well this edge and this edge, like I say it would be nice to have some curvature to it, but it's not absolutely necessary. Really the curve that's most needed is the underside so that the jo so that the joystick rests over the the edge of the hand like this. Um and you have the uh transmitter here and a wee speaker for the uh for the uh for the uh fi uh for the remote control finder. So.Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: Any further commentsIndustrial Designer: Um obviously it's gonna be bulkier than how it looks, because it's gonna be flat on had to get this in, to have a positive {disfmarker} you know, even based on the four of us being heavily biased, umMarketing: Mm-hmm. Yeah.Project Manager: {vocalsound} it was gonna be quite hard to get anything standing out I'd say possibly, based on um the the cost features.User Interface: Mm.Industrial Designer: Mm, yeah.Marketing: Even if we were to increase this entire thing by by seven, we were to go down a grade to to four, we would have to do {disfmarker} I mean we didn't we weren't that kinda optimistic too optim overly optimistic. You know like we didn't we didn't add we didn't subtract a whole seven points from these things, so I think we're definitely on the good bit.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Even if we gave this one seven and this one seven, that's still only three extra points over seven. You know, it's {disfmarker} yeah,User Interface: Mm. Personally, I think given that the product um only replaces a single remote controlMarketing: we did it w it was okay. It was good.User Interface: that you've already got, are people really gonna shell out twenty five Euros for something that's only marginally goodIndustrial Designer: Well, it depends who your {disfmarker} who's {disfmarker} what the target people are, like you'd say maybe the fashion consciousProject Manager: Maybe it's been targeted {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: women would be going, oh look at that,'s cool, it looks like a {disfmarker}Marketing: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: it's yellow, looks like a banana, it's cool it's gotta {disfmarker} look good in the sitting room.Project Manager: Hide it in the fruit basket.Industrial Designer: Rather than the L_C_D_ whereas uh more technical like like more uh people in with the latest technology {gap} it's good, it's got an L_C_D_ screen's only got two buttons and a joystick. So, which which kind of

Summarize the conclusion of the incorporation of articulation when discussing budget balancing.

In the budget balancing, User Interface desired an articulation, which would, however, lead the remote control to be double-curved. Initially, Project Manager was not sure about this, for the double-curved design would go over the budget. Industrial Designer pointed out that a single curve would still allow the articulation. The remote control could be made in two parts and joined together with the articulation. Project Manager accepted Industrial Designer's proposal.

had to get this in, to have a positive {disfmarker} you know, even based on the four of us being heavily biased, umMarketing: Mm-hmm. Yeah.Project Manager: {vocalsound} it was gonna be quite hard to get anything standing out I'd say possibly, based on um the the cost features.User Interface: Mm.Industrial Designer: Mm, yeah.Marketing: Even if we were to increase this entire thing by by seven, we were to go down a grade to to four, we would have to do {disfmarker} I mean we didn't we weren't that kinda optimistic too optim overly optimistic. You know like we didn't we didn't add we didn't subtract a whole seven points from these things, so I think we're definitely on the good bit.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Even if we gave this one seven and this one seven, that's still only three extra points over seven. You know, it's {disfmarker} yeah,User Interface: Mm. Personally, I think given that the product um only replaces a single remote controlMarketing: we did it w it was okay. It was good.User Interface: that you've already got, are people really gonna shell out twenty five Euros for something that's only marginally goodIndustrial Designer: Well, it depends who your {disfmarker} who's {disfmarker} what the target people are, like you'd say maybe the fashion consciousProject Manager: Maybe it's been targeted {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: women would be going, oh look at that,'s cool, it looks like a {disfmarker}Marketing: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: it's yellow, looks like a banana, it's cool it's gotta {disfmarker} look good in the sitting room.Project Manager: Hide it in the fruit basket.Industrial Designer: Rather than the L_C_D_ whereas uh more technical like like more uh people in with the latest technology {gap} it's good, it's got an L_C_D_ screen's only got two buttons and a joystick. So, which which kind of That's this bit right here. And uh this bit is this one easy to use for visitors or for anybody I guess it's just the same as saying easy to use interface, so it's kinda condensed into one. And we can come back to it, you said.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: So.Project Manager: No and which we will do very very shortly. Um. Okay. Slight problem we had was that we have an amazing four Euros over budget for what we were hoping to do. Um most of it stems from the use of the L_C_D_ which I think in the end accounted for about half of our expenditure because of course we required a chip as well. Um the only way to get this down was either to ditch the a L_C_D_, at which point we've removed a large part of how we were gonna interface, {gap} require more buttons, etcetera. Or what we did was that we um we as in I as I was quickly going over it was altering the actual structure. Um changing it to plastic and a solid unit with a single curve design would allow us to come back into the um proposed costs and we're just scraping it in, we've got point two of a Euro left over there. So we're just managing it really. Even then as well, um there was no criteria technically defined for a joystick so I've used what I think's appropriate. With any luck that won't mean that we've incurred more cost than we can actually afford to. It blows a lot of our really good ideas kind of slightly to one side, for example the possibility of having a U_S_B_ connection is definitely not viable now. Um.Marketing: Different languagesProject Manager: That should still be viable. We've got an until you know the costs. Um. Okay. Are the costs within budget Well,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: they are now that we have our slightly less than capable product.Marketing: Okay.Project Manager: We've evaluated it, and we can say that we came out with a value of three.Marketing: Yeah.User Interface: Actually I want th one thing I would say {disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: I mean something that could perhaps be part of the product mm the um m product testing market research process would be to uh produce mock-ups of both versions and see just how much of a difference the over {gap} going over-budget um m would make to sales.Project Manager: It's {disfmarker} yeahMarketing: And like response from consumers {gap}.User Interface: And we could even you know, market two versions.Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: Wee cheapie version with the nice bio-morphic rubber. {vocalsound}Project Manager: And then the final one where you get to call it Hal.User Interface: Yes.Project Manager: But we'll go into that later.Marketing: {vocalsound} Sure.Project Manager: Right umMarketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: is there anything else that anybody would like to to add, um {gap} anything they think that's not been covered, before I quickly write up a final report. Um I dunno, I mean we've got a product. We maybe aren't as happy with it as we'd like to be, but we've got something we think we can maybe stick onto the the market and sell. And of course something we have been avoiding talking about'cause of we've no information is selling them directly to the manufacturers. There is a huge market.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: I mean we've briefly touched on it but we've no more knowledge then there's little we can say on that.Marketing: Yeah.User Interface: Mm.Project Manager: Yeah. So um unless anybody's got anything they'd like to add, we can maybe round this up slightly earlier than we'd need to and then we can finish up the writing and such.User Interface: And I can get my bus. Okay.Project Manager: YeahMarketing: Yeah. Okay, let's {disfmarker}Project Manager: Uh thank you for your participation.Marketing: Thank you.User Interface: Thank you.Marketing: {vocalsound} I was actually kind of upset you know at the budget, and that we had to cut a lot of stuff. It's like man, we we can't have the locator thing. And s yeah that's just bad. Do you think maybe {gap} the prices were were madeProject Manager: That {gap} a question we can ask {gap}. {vocalsound} for what a joystick might be, that that's what I've labelled it for the purposes of this evaluation.Industrial Designer: So {disfmarker} The L_C_D_ basically is the big selling point ofProject Manager: If we remove the L_C_ display, we could save ourselvesIndustrial Designer: the remote.Project Manager: a fair amount. Which you could {vocalsound} {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: But that's what makes it uh original though,User Interface: Mm. I think {gap} if we remove the the L_C_ display then there was absolutely no point to any of these meetingsMarketing: Yeah. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: isn't itUser Interface: and we just {gap} we could just put our branding on any other remote control.Marketing: Yeah. Yeah. Um. Uh kProject Manager: It's a shame. We should possibly have {disfmarker} If we could've increased the price we could've manufactured that and we could've got something far closer to what we were hoping to.Marketing: Does this does this bear in mind that {disfmarker} I mean it's a bit ridiculous that they're gonna charge us what is it, like this much money for three million if we're gonna buy three million components,Project Manager: Again, you'll have to argue with the accountants on that one.Marketing: you know.Project Manager: Um but for the purposes of this meeting, I'm {disfmarker} we're gonna have to stick with these figures.Marketing: Mm.'Kay.Project Manager: So, I would say that it would seem like the general opinion is we're gonna keep the L_C_ display'cause it's about what really separates us, {vocalsound} despite the cost it's gonna incur. UmMarketing: I think so.Project Manager: are people maybe not happy with, but are willing to go ahead with this in going for a plastic solid case, to keep the L_C_D_User Interface: Mm-hmm. Um yeah {gap} I mean one thing, I mean ho uh how much extra would it be to to keep I aim your a um product maybe at the technological kind of sector, then you can afford to maybe jack the price up slightly from what it is.User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: Because they will pay outrageous cash to {gap}User Interface: Mm. I mean I th {vocalsound} I mean I think to r retaining the s the more sort of bio-morphic form in the articulation would gain more in s uh would gain more profit in sales than it would lose in uhProject Manager: first on the market.User Interface: in added expense.Project Manager: Mm.Industrial Designer: And the price was like {disfmarker} it was twice the w assembly cost. And would it have to be twice that It could be like coulda had the assembly {gap} like maybe fifteen Euro.Project Manager: It could even {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: We'll still settle for twenty five {vocalsound}.Project Manager: That's true, yeah.Industrial Designer: Maybe. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Um I suppose these are all that will have to be taken up with a at a different group at I guess. As to a {gap} the costs involved. But I mean we've got a a prototype.User Interface: Such as it is.Project Manager: {vocalsound} So I dunno, I I think it's gone okay today, considering the information that we've had at our disposal, and um such.Marketing: Maybe the counts wou woulda been better if we had a list or more {disfmarker} Yeah, to begin with.Industrial Designer: In the beginning, yeah.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: Probably would have {disfmarker} mean we could have come up with a lot more solid design in the end,Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: I would have to agree. It is very much a pity to um get so far into the stage and then find out that maybe some of your ideas are just a bit too expensive. Always hard to tell

Summarize the conclusion of the location function when discussing budget balancing.

User Interface told the team that the corporate had decided to incorporate a voice recognition chip into the remote control so that the team had to invent another method for users to locate the remote control once it got lost in a room. The team decided to make the remote control a special colour. Meanwhile, the remote control would be able to camouflage in the living room. Project Manager further proposed that the team could also make the remote control glow in the dark.

That's this bit right here. And uh this bit is this one easy to use for visitors or for anybody I guess it's just the same as saying easy to use interface, so it's kinda condensed into one. And we can come back to it, you said.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: So.Project Manager: No and which we will do very very shortly. Um. Okay. Slight problem we had was that we have an amazing four Euros over budget for what we were hoping to do. Um most of it stems from the use of the L_C_D_ which I think in the end accounted for about half of our expenditure because of course we required a chip as well. Um the only way to get this down was either to ditch the a L_C_D_, at which point we've removed a large part of how we were gonna interface, {gap} require more buttons, etcetera. Or what we did was that we um we as in I as I was quickly going over it was altering the actual structure. Um changing it to plastic and a solid unit with a single curve design would allow us to come back into the um proposed costs and we're just scraping it in, we've got point two of a Euro left over there. So we're just managing it really. Even then as well, um there was no criteria technically defined for a joystick so I've used what I think's appropriate. With any luck that won't mean that we've incurred more cost than we can actually afford to. It blows a lot of our really good ideas kind of slightly to one side, for example the possibility of having a U_S_B_ connection is definitely not viable now. Um.Marketing: Different languagesProject Manager: That should still be viable. We've got an had to get this in, to have a positive {disfmarker} you know, even based on the four of us being heavily biased, umMarketing: Mm-hmm. Yeah.Project Manager: {vocalsound} it was gonna be quite hard to get anything standing out I'd say possibly, based on um the the cost features.User Interface: Mm.Industrial Designer: Mm, yeah.Marketing: Even if we were to increase this entire thing by by seven, we were to go down a grade to to four, we would have to do {disfmarker} I mean we didn't we weren't that kinda optimistic too optim overly optimistic. You know like we didn't we didn't add we didn't subtract a whole seven points from these things, so I think we're definitely on the good bit.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Even if we gave this one seven and this one seven, that's still only three extra points over seven. You know, it's {disfmarker} yeah,User Interface: Mm. Personally, I think given that the product um only replaces a single remote controlMarketing: we did it w it was okay. It was good.User Interface: that you've already got, are people really gonna shell out twenty five Euros for something that's only marginally goodIndustrial Designer: Well, it depends who your {disfmarker} who's {disfmarker} what the target people are, like you'd say maybe the fashion consciousProject Manager: Maybe it's been targeted {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: women would be going, oh look at that,'s cool, it looks like a {disfmarker}Marketing: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: it's yellow, looks like a banana, it's cool it's gotta {disfmarker} look good in the sitting room.Project Manager: Hide it in the fruit basket.Industrial Designer: Rather than the L_C_D_ whereas uh more technical like like more uh people in with the latest technology {gap} it's good, it's got an L_C_D_ screen's only got two buttons and a joystick. So, which which kind of Project Manager: That should hopefully do the trick, um.'Kay. Sorry about the small delay. Falling a little bit behind schedule. And that's uh fifteen twenty five. Okay. So just to try and roughly go over what we agreed in the last one, um we're gonna go for something uh uh how was it Uh The new black, I believe.Marketing: {gap}.Project Manager: Um something that looks good'cause that seems to be in preference to actual functionality in the end, though we should never avoid functionality, of course. Uh many of our components are gonna be standard, off the shelf, but it seemed like we were gonna require at least an advanced chip and we were still very much for the idea of using an L_C_D_ display. Um other things were we were hoping to use rubber, most likely gonna be double curved, etcetera. Okay. So um due to your hard work, we might as well let the uh two designers go first, and uh show us the prototype.User Interface: Okay, it's a {disfmarker}Project Manager: Quite how the best way to do this is, I'm not sure,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: {gap} I think if we both step upProject Manager: but {disfmarker}User Interface: and uh outline our ideas. Okay. Now do {disfmarker} uh doing the prototype gave us a bit more insight into the ergonomics of the design. Um for one thing, it turned out that the only point at which it needs to be articulated for handedness is um is h i is down here for the uh L_E_D_. As it turned out, the whole thing transfers from the right to left hand fairly well from the point of view of operating the uh function buttons and joystick, though it might be an idea to be able to a adjust the positions for what a joystick might be, that that's what I've labelled it for the purposes of this evaluation.Industrial Designer: So {disfmarker} The L_C_D_ basically is the big selling point ofProject Manager: If we remove the L_C_ display, we could save ourselvesIndustrial Designer: the remote.Project Manager: a fair amount. Which you could {vocalsound} {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: But that's what makes it uh original though,User Interface: Mm. I think {gap} if we remove the the L_C_ display then there was absolutely no point to any of these meetingsMarketing: Yeah. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: isn't itUser Interface: and we just {gap} we could just put our branding on any other remote control.Marketing: Yeah. Yeah. Um. Uh kProject Manager: It's a shame. We should possibly have {disfmarker} If we could've increased the price we could've manufactured that and we could've got something far closer to what we were hoping to.Marketing: Does this does this bear in mind that {disfmarker} I mean it's a bit ridiculous that they're gonna charge us what is it, like this much money for three million if we're gonna buy three million components,Project Manager: Again, you'll have to argue with the accountants on that one.Marketing: you know.Project Manager: Um but for the purposes of this meeting, I'm {disfmarker} we're gonna have to stick with these figures.Marketing: Mm.'Kay.Project Manager: So, I would say that it would seem like the general opinion is we're gonna keep the L_C_ display'cause it's about what really separates us, {vocalsound} despite the cost it's gonna incur. UmMarketing: I think so.Project Manager: are people maybe not happy with, but are willing to go ahead with this in going for a plastic solid case, to keep the L_C_D_User Interface: Mm-hmm. Um yeah {gap} I mean one thing, I mean ho uh how much extra would it be to to keep I Mm.Project Manager: I'd {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Wouldn't itMarketing: w maybe you'd be a bit too {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah. {vocalsound}Marketing: yeah. There we go. Yeah,Industrial Designer: With the articulators. With bells on it.Marketing: that's m that's that's better too. More accurate numbers. Technologically innovative. Well, we're getting rid of the locator thingProject Manager: Which is a shame.Marketing: which whichUser Interface: Mm. I'd give it a three for this {disfmarker} for that.Marketing: yeah {vocalsound} {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: No need for teletext.Marketing: {gap}.User Interface: Yeah. I mean the menus thing is something you don't normally see on um on a remote,Marketing:'Kay.User Interface: but {vocalsound} you see it in a lot of other places.Marketing: Yeah, mobile phones.Project Manager: Mm.Marketing: And y what you're doing is moving the menu from the television to the remote control, so it's {disfmarker}User Interface: Mm-hmm.Marketing: You say three I might go as far as two on that. Three.User Interface: I'd give it a three.Project Manager: I'd be tempted with three, yeah.Marketing: Three. Okay.Project Manager: We'll get panned on the next one, anyway.Marketing: Okay. Materials that people find pleasing.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah, wMarketing: Sponginess is what they really would have wanted, apparently.Project Manager: It is, yeah. Don't blame them.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Um because of the way that we've minimalised the number of buttons and such.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: Plastic, it sucks. But it's no worse than any of the other pl remote controls we have.Marketing: That's true. It's not a step backwards.Industrial Designer: {gap} fiveUser Interface: Mm-hmm. I'd s I I'd give it a six, to be honest.Industrial Designer: SixProject Manager: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah, okay let's give it a six.Industrial Designer: Six, {gap}.Marketing: {vocalsound} Okay, that's totally thrown everything off balance. Inspired by the latest interior and clothing fashion. W we could. What colour were we gonna make itIndustrial Designer:

What did the group discuss about the product evaluation

In the product evaluation, the team was satisfied with its success in reducing the number of unused buttons. The user interface was considered to be user-friendly enough. However, the team also admitted that there was still room for improvement on the location function, technological innovation, the material, as well as the fashion style of the remote control.

That's this bit right here. And uh this bit is this one easy to use for visitors or for anybody I guess it's just the same as saying easy to use interface, so it's kinda condensed into one. And we can come back to it, you said.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: So.Project Manager: No and which we will do very very shortly. Um. Okay. Slight problem we had was that we have an amazing four Euros over budget for what we were hoping to do. Um most of it stems from the use of the L_C_D_ which I think in the end accounted for about half of our expenditure because of course we required a chip as well. Um the only way to get this down was either to ditch the a L_C_D_, at which point we've removed a large part of how we were gonna interface, {gap} require more buttons, etcetera. Or what we did was that we um we as in I as I was quickly going over it was altering the actual structure. Um changing it to plastic and a solid unit with a single curve design would allow us to come back into the um proposed costs and we're just scraping it in, we've got point two of a Euro left over there. So we're just managing it really. Even then as well, um there was no criteria technically defined for a joystick so I've used what I think's appropriate. With any luck that won't mean that we've incurred more cost than we can actually afford to. It blows a lot of our really good ideas kind of slightly to one side, for example the possibility of having a U_S_B_ connection is definitely not viable now. Um.Marketing: Different languagesProject Manager: That should still be viable. We've got an until you know the costs. Um. Okay. Are the costs within budget Well,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: they are now that we have our slightly less than capable product.Marketing: Okay.Project Manager: We've evaluated it, and we can say that we came out with a value of three.Marketing: Yeah.User Interface: Actually I want th one thing I would say {disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: I mean something that could perhaps be part of the product mm the um m product testing market research process would be to uh produce mock-ups of both versions and see just how much of a difference the over {gap} going over-budget um m would make to sales.Project Manager: It's {disfmarker} yeahMarketing: And like response from consumers {gap}.User Interface: And we could even you know, market two versions.Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: Wee cheapie version with the nice bio-morphic rubber. {vocalsound}Project Manager: And then the final one where you get to call it Hal.User Interface: Yes.Project Manager: But we'll go into that later.Marketing: {vocalsound} Sure.Project Manager: Right umMarketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: is there anything else that anybody would like to to add, um {gap} anything they think that's not been covered, before I quickly write up a final report. Um I dunno, I mean we've got a product. We maybe aren't as happy with it as we'd like to be, but we've got something we think we can maybe stick onto the the market and sell. And of course something we have been avoiding talking about'cause of we've no information is selling them directly to the manufacturers. There is a huge market.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: I mean we've briefly touched on it but we've no more knowledge then there's little we can say on that.Marketing: Yeah.User Interface: Mm.Project Manager: Yeah. So um unless anybody's got anything they'd like to add, we can maybe round this up slightly earlier than we'd need to and then we can finish up the writing and such.User Interface: And I can get my bus. Okay.Project Manager: YeahMarketing: Yeah. Okay, let's {disfmarker}Project Manager: Uh thank you for your participation.Marketing: Thank you.User Interface: Thank you.Marketing: {vocalsound} I was actually kind of upset you know at the budget, and that we had to cut a lot of stuff. It's like man, we we can't have the locator thing. And s yeah that's just bad. Do you think maybe {gap} the prices were were madeProject Manager: That {gap} a question we can ask {gap}. {vocalsound} for what a joystick might be, that that's what I've labelled it for the purposes of this evaluation.Industrial Designer: So {disfmarker} The L_C_D_ basically is the big selling point ofProject Manager: If we remove the L_C_ display, we could save ourselvesIndustrial Designer: the remote.Project Manager: a fair amount. Which you could {vocalsound} {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: But that's what makes it uh original though,User Interface: Mm. I think {gap} if we remove the the L_C_ display then there was absolutely no point to any of these meetingsMarketing: Yeah. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: isn't itUser Interface: and we just {gap} we could just put our branding on any other remote control.Marketing: Yeah. Yeah. Um. Uh kProject Manager: It's a shame. We should possibly have {disfmarker} If we could've increased the price we could've manufactured that and we could've got something far closer to what we were hoping to.Marketing: Does this does this bear in mind that {disfmarker} I mean it's a bit ridiculous that they're gonna charge us what is it, like this much money for three million if we're gonna buy three million components,Project Manager: Again, you'll have to argue with the accountants on that one.Marketing: you know.Project Manager: Um but for the purposes of this meeting, I'm {disfmarker} we're gonna have to stick with these figures.Marketing: Mm.'Kay.Project Manager: So, I would say that it would seem like the general opinion is we're gonna keep the L_C_ display'cause it's about what really separates us, {vocalsound} despite the cost it's gonna incur. UmMarketing: I think so.Project Manager: are people maybe not happy with, but are willing to go ahead with this in going for a plastic solid case, to keep the L_C_D_User Interface: Mm-hmm. Um yeah {gap} I mean one thing, I mean ho uh how much extra would it be to to keep I had to get this in, to have a positive {disfmarker} you know, even based on the four of us being heavily biased, umMarketing: Mm-hmm. Yeah.Project Manager: {vocalsound} it was gonna be quite hard to get anything standing out I'd say possibly, based on um the the cost features.User Interface: Mm.Industrial Designer: Mm, yeah.Marketing: Even if we were to increase this entire thing by by seven, we were to go down a grade to to four, we would have to do {disfmarker} I mean we didn't we weren't that kinda optimistic too optim overly optimistic. You know like we didn't we didn't add we didn't subtract a whole seven points from these things, so I think we're definitely on the good bit.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Even if we gave this one seven and this one seven, that's still only three extra points over seven. You know, it's {disfmarker} yeah,User Interface: Mm. Personally, I think given that the product um only replaces a single remote controlMarketing: we did it w it was okay. It was good.User Interface: that you've already got, are people really gonna shell out twenty five Euros for something that's only marginally goodIndustrial Designer: Well, it depends who your {disfmarker} who's {disfmarker} what the target people are, like you'd say maybe the fashion consciousProject Manager: Maybe it's been targeted {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: women would be going, oh look at that,'s cool, it looks like a {disfmarker}Marketing: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: it's yellow, looks like a banana, it's cool it's gotta {disfmarker} look good in the sitting room.Project Manager: Hide it in the fruit basket.Industrial Designer: Rather than the L_C_D_ whereas uh more technical like like more uh people in with the latest technology {gap} it's good, it's got an L_C_D_ screen's only got two buttons and a joystick. So, which which kind of people would be more likely to buy itProject Manager: Probably the people technologically. They're usually the ones that buy pointless stuff.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: I think so.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: I mean my mum still has not learnt how to use text messaging on her phone, and she's had it for a long time, you know. She uses it to make phone calls and that's it.Industrial Designer: {gap}.Marketing: Yeah. So I think if sh if my mum saw a remote control like this with only two buttons and a joystick, I mean that'll probably be the first one she decides not to buy, you know.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Marketing: She'd be like is this a remote control, I don't {disfmarker} how do you use it, and stuff like that. So even if it is really user friendly to us, but we're used to using menus all the time.User Interface: Mm-hmm. I s {vocalsound} I suppose one thing is that b because it's technically innovative, um for someone who's sort of technophobic, the fact that it simply looks unfamiliar would be daunting.Marketing: Yeah. Yeah.User Interface: Um.Marketing: I think it's totally uh radical to have a remote control with no no numbered buttons,Industrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: yeah.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: But like radical good, maybe.Project Manager: Okay. Um don't know how lo much longer we've got. At least five minutes I think. Um quickly we'll pop onto project evaluation. Um. So, we've got these uh four criteria here for uh satisfaction. Does anybody want to um um do you have any opinions on any of them For example um {disfmarker} we'll work backwards I suppose. The ability to work on this project using the technology we've been presented with. Um {gap} people made good use of the uh pen and paperUser Interface: Yeah,Project Manager: I would say {gap}

What did Project Manager think of the plastic material when discussing the product evaluation

The team had decided to replace the rubber with plastic due to the budget limit. When evaluating the material of the remote control, Marketing admitted that sponginess was what most users desired, which was the feel given by rubber. Project Manager agreed. However, Project Manager pointed out that a plastic remote control was no worse than other remote controls in the market, so it would not be a step-back at least.

That's this bit right here. And uh this bit is this one easy to use for visitors or for anybody I guess it's just the same as saying easy to use interface, so it's kinda condensed into one. And we can come back to it, you said.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: So.Project Manager: No and which we will do very very shortly. Um. Okay. Slight problem we had was that we have an amazing four Euros over budget for what we were hoping to do. Um most of it stems from the use of the L_C_D_ which I think in the end accounted for about half of our expenditure because of course we required a chip as well. Um the only way to get this down was either to ditch the a L_C_D_, at which point we've removed a large part of how we were gonna interface, {gap} require more buttons, etcetera. Or what we did was that we um we as in I as I was quickly going over it was altering the actual structure. Um changing it to plastic and a solid unit with a single curve design would allow us to come back into the um proposed costs and we're just scraping it in, we've got point two of a Euro left over there. So we're just managing it really. Even then as well, um there was no criteria technically defined for a joystick so I've used what I think's appropriate. With any luck that won't mean that we've incurred more cost than we can actually afford to. It blows a lot of our really good ideas kind of slightly to one side, for example the possibility of having a U_S_B_ connection is definitely not viable now. Um.Marketing: Different languagesProject Manager: That should still be viable. We've got an for what a joystick might be, that that's what I've labelled it for the purposes of this evaluation.Industrial Designer: So {disfmarker} The L_C_D_ basically is the big selling point ofProject Manager: If we remove the L_C_ display, we could save ourselvesIndustrial Designer: the remote.Project Manager: a fair amount. Which you could {vocalsound} {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: But that's what makes it uh original though,User Interface: Mm. I think {gap} if we remove the the L_C_ display then there was absolutely no point to any of these meetingsMarketing: Yeah. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: isn't itUser Interface: and we just {gap} we could just put our branding on any other remote control.Marketing: Yeah. Yeah. Um. Uh kProject Manager: It's a shame. We should possibly have {disfmarker} If we could've increased the price we could've manufactured that and we could've got something far closer to what we were hoping to.Marketing: Does this does this bear in mind that {disfmarker} I mean it's a bit ridiculous that they're gonna charge us what is it, like this much money for three million if we're gonna buy three million components,Project Manager: Again, you'll have to argue with the accountants on that one.Marketing: you know.Project Manager: Um but for the purposes of this meeting, I'm {disfmarker} we're gonna have to stick with these figures.Marketing: Mm.'Kay.Project Manager: So, I would say that it would seem like the general opinion is we're gonna keep the L_C_ display'cause it's about what really separates us, {vocalsound} despite the cost it's gonna incur. UmMarketing: I think so.Project Manager: are people maybe not happy with, but are willing to go ahead with this in going for a plastic solid case, to keep the L_C_D_User Interface: Mm-hmm. Um yeah {gap} I mean one thing, I mean ho uh how much extra would it be to to keep I for the base of the joystick just a little bit for uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay.User Interface: {gap} ju just a thought. You could simply have a slightly ovoid shaped joystick that could then just be turn uh twisted round, so that the uh sticky uh so that the bit that sticks out a bit more is on one side or the other. But as you as you see with the uh {vocalsound} with holding it in the left hand, the L_ uh the L_C_D_ is nowhere useful, so that would need to be articulated uh if we're going to retain {gap} ergonomic design. Um now I I got your note about uh keeping the cost down.Project Manager: I'm afraid yeah.User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: We'll go into that a bit more,User Interface: {gap} this design could be done with um with uh plastic casing.Project Manager: but please go on.User Interface: Though I would recommend around the grip part here in the middle, having maybe just a rubber grip over that which would allow for a slightly more sort of bio-morphic form, and a bit more ergonomic as well. As for the um as for the single curve, um well this edge and this edge, like I say it would be nice to have some curvature to it, but it's not absolutely necessary. Really the curve that's most needed is the underside so that the jo so that the joystick rests over the the edge of the hand like this. Um and you have the uh transmitter here and a wee speaker for the uh for the uh for the uh fi uh for the remote control finder. So.Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: Any further commentsIndustrial Designer: Um obviously it's gonna be bulkier than how it looks, because it's gonna be flat on people would be more likely to buy itProject Manager: Probably the people technologically. They're usually the ones that buy pointless stuff.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: I think so.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: I mean my mum still has not learnt how to use text messaging on her phone, and she's had it for a long time, you know. She uses it to make phone calls and that's it.Industrial Designer: {gap}.Marketing: Yeah. So I think if sh if my mum saw a remote control like this with only two buttons and a joystick, I mean that'll probably be the first one she decides not to buy, you know.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Marketing: She'd be like is this a remote control, I don't {disfmarker} how do you use it, and stuff like that. So even if it is really user friendly to us, but we're used to using menus all the time.User Interface: Mm-hmm. I s {vocalsound} I suppose one thing is that b because it's technically innovative, um for someone who's sort of technophobic, the fact that it simply looks unfamiliar would be daunting.Marketing: Yeah. Yeah.User Interface: Um.Marketing: I think it's totally uh radical to have a remote control with no no numbered buttons,Industrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: yeah.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: But like radical good, maybe.Project Manager: Okay. Um don't know how lo much longer we've got. At least five minutes I think. Um quickly we'll pop onto project evaluation. Um. So, we've got these uh four criteria here for uh satisfaction. Does anybody want to um um do you have any opinions on any of them For example um {disfmarker} we'll work backwards I suppose. The ability to work on this project using the technology we've been presented with. Um {gap} people made good use of the uh pen and paperUser Interface: Yeah,Project Manager: I would say {gap} Mm.Project Manager: I'd {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Wouldn't itMarketing: w maybe you'd be a bit too {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah. {vocalsound}Marketing: yeah. There we go. Yeah,Industrial Designer: With the articulators. With bells on it.Marketing: that's m that's that's better too. More accurate numbers. Technologically innovative. Well, we're getting rid of the locator thingProject Manager: Which is a shame.Marketing: which whichUser Interface: Mm. I'd give it a three for this {disfmarker} for that.Marketing: yeah {vocalsound} {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: No need for teletext.Marketing: {gap}.User Interface: Yeah. I mean the menus thing is something you don't normally see on um on a remote,Marketing:'Kay.User Interface: but {vocalsound} you see it in a lot of other places.Marketing: Yeah, mobile phones.Project Manager: Mm.Marketing: And y what you're doing is moving the menu from the television to the remote control, so it's {disfmarker}User Interface: Mm-hmm.Marketing: You say three I might go as far as two on that. Three.User Interface: I'd give it a three.Project Manager: I'd be tempted with three, yeah.Marketing: Three. Okay.Project Manager: We'll get panned on the next one, anyway.Marketing: Okay. Materials that people find pleasing.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah, wMarketing: Sponginess is what they really would have wanted, apparently.Project Manager: It is, yeah. Don't blame them.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Um because of the way that we've minimalised the number of buttons and such.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: Plastic, it sucks. But it's no worse than any of the other pl remote controls we have.Marketing: That's true. It's not a step backwards.Industrial Designer: {gap} fiveUser Interface: Mm-hmm. I'd s I I'd give it a six, to be honest.Industrial Designer: SixProject Manager: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah, okay let's give it a six.Industrial Designer: Six, {gap}.Marketing: {vocalsound} Okay, that's totally thrown everything off balance. Inspired by the latest interior and clothing fashion. W we could. What colour were we gonna make itIndustrial Designer:

What did User Interface think of the fashion style of the remote control when discussing the product evaluation

Marketing concluded from the market research that users expected the remote control to combine fruit and vegetable elements with its fashion design. User Interface disagreed with Marketing, for it was believed by User Interface that fruit and vegetable style was not the sole criterion for satisfactory fashion design of the remote control. Instead, User Interface implicated that all designs inspired by current fashions were likely to win the users over.

That's this bit right here. And uh this bit is this one easy to use for visitors or for anybody I guess it's just the same as saying easy to use interface, so it's kinda condensed into one. And we can come back to it, you said.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: So.Project Manager: No and which we will do very very shortly. Um. Okay. Slight problem we had was that we have an amazing four Euros over budget for what we were hoping to do. Um most of it stems from the use of the L_C_D_ which I think in the end accounted for about half of our expenditure because of course we required a chip as well. Um the only way to get this down was either to ditch the a L_C_D_, at which point we've removed a large part of how we were gonna interface, {gap} require more buttons, etcetera. Or what we did was that we um we as in I as I was quickly going over it was altering the actual structure. Um changing it to plastic and a solid unit with a single curve design would allow us to come back into the um proposed costs and we're just scraping it in, we've got point two of a Euro left over there. So we're just managing it really. Even then as well, um there was no criteria technically defined for a joystick so I've used what I think's appropriate. With any luck that won't mean that we've incurred more cost than we can actually afford to. It blows a lot of our really good ideas kind of slightly to one side, for example the possibility of having a U_S_B_ connection is definitely not viable now. Um.Marketing: Different languagesProject Manager: That should still be viable. We've got an had to get this in, to have a positive {disfmarker} you know, even based on the four of us being heavily biased, umMarketing: Mm-hmm. Yeah.Project Manager: {vocalsound} it was gonna be quite hard to get anything standing out I'd say possibly, based on um the the cost features.User Interface: Mm.Industrial Designer: Mm, yeah.Marketing: Even if we were to increase this entire thing by by seven, we were to go down a grade to to four, we would have to do {disfmarker} I mean we didn't we weren't that kinda optimistic too optim overly optimistic. You know like we didn't we didn't add we didn't subtract a whole seven points from these things, so I think we're definitely on the good bit.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Even if we gave this one seven and this one seven, that's still only three extra points over seven. You know, it's {disfmarker} yeah,User Interface: Mm. Personally, I think given that the product um only replaces a single remote controlMarketing: we did it w it was okay. It was good.User Interface: that you've already got, are people really gonna shell out twenty five Euros for something that's only marginally goodIndustrial Designer: Well, it depends who your {disfmarker} who's {disfmarker} what the target people are, like you'd say maybe the fashion consciousProject Manager: Maybe it's been targeted {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: women would be going, oh look at that,'s cool, it looks like a {disfmarker}Marketing: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: it's yellow, looks like a banana, it's cool it's gotta {disfmarker} look good in the sitting room.Project Manager: Hide it in the fruit basket.Industrial Designer: Rather than the L_C_D_ whereas uh more technical like like more uh people in with the latest technology {gap} it's good, it's got an L_C_D_ screen's only got two buttons and a joystick. So, which which kind of Mm.Project Manager: I'd {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Wouldn't itMarketing: w maybe you'd be a bit too {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah. {vocalsound}Marketing: yeah. There we go. Yeah,Industrial Designer: With the articulators. With bells on it.Marketing: that's m that's that's better too. More accurate numbers. Technologically innovative. Well, we're getting rid of the locator thingProject Manager: Which is a shame.Marketing: which whichUser Interface: Mm. I'd give it a three for this {disfmarker} for that.Marketing: yeah {vocalsound} {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: No need for teletext.Marketing: {gap}.User Interface: Yeah. I mean the menus thing is something you don't normally see on um on a remote,Marketing:'Kay.User Interface: but {vocalsound} you see it in a lot of other places.Marketing: Yeah, mobile phones.Project Manager: Mm.Marketing: And y what you're doing is moving the menu from the television to the remote control, so it's {disfmarker}User Interface: Mm-hmm.Marketing: You say three I might go as far as two on that. Three.User Interface: I'd give it a three.Project Manager: I'd be tempted with three, yeah.Marketing: Three. Okay.Project Manager: We'll get panned on the next one, anyway.Marketing: Okay. Materials that people find pleasing.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah, wMarketing: Sponginess is what they really would have wanted, apparently.Project Manager: It is, yeah. Don't blame them.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Um because of the way that we've minimalised the number of buttons and such.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: Plastic, it sucks. But it's no worse than any of the other pl remote controls we have.Marketing: That's true. It's not a step backwards.Industrial Designer: {gap} fiveUser Interface: Mm-hmm. I'd s I I'd give it a six, to be honest.Industrial Designer: SixProject Manager: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah, okay let's give it a six.Industrial Designer: Six, {gap}.Marketing: {vocalsound} Okay, that's totally thrown everything off balance. Inspired by the latest interior and clothing fashion. W we could. What colour were we gonna make itIndustrial Designer: until you know the costs. Um. Okay. Are the costs within budget Well,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: they are now that we have our slightly less than capable product.Marketing: Okay.Project Manager: We've evaluated it, and we can say that we came out with a value of three.Marketing: Yeah.User Interface: Actually I want th one thing I would say {disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: I mean something that could perhaps be part of the product mm the um m product testing market research process would be to uh produce mock-ups of both versions and see just how much of a difference the over {gap} going over-budget um m would make to sales.Project Manager: It's {disfmarker} yeahMarketing: And like response from consumers {gap}.User Interface: And we could even you know, market two versions.Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: Wee cheapie version with the nice bio-morphic rubber. {vocalsound}Project Manager: And then the final one where you get to call it Hal.User Interface: Yes.Project Manager: But we'll go into that later.Marketing: {vocalsound} Sure.Project Manager: Right umMarketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: is there anything else that anybody would like to to add, um {gap} anything they think that's not been covered, before I quickly write up a final report. Um I dunno, I mean we've got a product. We maybe aren't as happy with it as we'd like to be, but we've got something we think we can maybe stick onto the the market and sell. And of course something we have been avoiding talking about'cause of we've no information is selling them directly to the manufacturers. There is a huge market.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: I mean we've briefly touched on it but we've no more knowledge then there's little we can say on that.Marketing: Yeah.User Interface: Mm.Project Manager: Yeah. So um unless anybody's got anything they'd like to add, we can maybe round this up slightly earlier than we'd need to and then we can finish up the writing and such.User Interface: And I can get my bus. Okay.Project Manager: YeahMarketing: Yeah. Okay, let's {disfmarker}Project Manager: Uh thank you for your participation.Marketing: Thank you.User Interface: Thank you.Marketing: {vocalsound} I was actually kind of upset you know at the budget, and that we had to cut a lot of stuff. It's like man, we we can't have the locator thing. And s yeah that's just bad. Do you think maybe {gap} the prices were were madeProject Manager: That {gap} a question we can ask {gap}. {vocalsound} aim your a um product maybe at the technological kind of sector, then you can afford to maybe jack the price up slightly from what it is.User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: Because they will pay outrageous cash to {gap}User Interface: Mm. I mean I th {vocalsound} I mean I think to r retaining the s the more sort of bio-morphic form in the articulation would gain more in s uh would gain more profit in sales than it would lose in uhProject Manager: first on the market.User Interface: in added expense.Project Manager: Mm.Industrial Designer: And the price was like {disfmarker} it was twice the w assembly cost. And would it have to be twice that It could be like coulda had the assembly {gap} like maybe fifteen Euro.Project Manager: It could even {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: We'll still settle for twenty five {vocalsound}.Project Manager: That's true, yeah.Industrial Designer: Maybe. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Um I suppose these are all that will have to be taken up with a at a different group at I guess. As to a {gap} the costs involved. But I mean we've got a a prototype.User Interface: Such as it is.Project Manager: {vocalsound} So I dunno, I I think it's gone okay today, considering the information that we've had at our disposal, and um such.Marketing: Maybe the counts wou woulda been better if we had a list or more {disfmarker} Yeah, to begin with.Industrial Designer: In the beginning, yeah.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: Probably would have {disfmarker} mean we could have come up with a lot more solid design in the end,Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: I would have to agree. It is very much a pity to um get so far into the stage and then find out that maybe some of your ideas are just a bit too expensive. Always hard to tell

Summarize the whole meeting.

Industrial Designer and User Interface presented a prototype of the new remote control according to the team's previous meetings. However, due to the budget limit, the team had to give up the spongy rubber material and the double-curved design. Instead, the remote control would be made of plastic and have only one curve. There would not be any location function, either. The team decided to make the remote control conspicuous by designing a bright yellow banana shape in case it got lost easily in a room. In the product evaluation, the team was satisfied with its success in reducing the number of unused buttons. The user interface was considered to be user-friendly enough. However, the team also admitted that there was still room for improvement on the location function, technological innovation, the material, as well as the fashion style of the remote control. At the end of the meeting, all team members expressed themselves about the teamwork sincerely.

access plans are there to address an issue around, primarily, changing the nature of people who go to university and making sure that nobody is put off from pursuing that. So, that's part of a wider piece of work that I'd want to see as an outcome agreement. But, as I said, I think looking at outcomes for students and outcomes of that activity, rather than the inputs of the activity, over a longer period of time, is probably a more effective way of doing it. I think it's still--. In a way, it's difficult to make a final judgment on whether fee and access plans in their current format have worked, because we need to know what'll happen to those students in the future. But undoubtedly, despite the limitations of them, I do think we're making progress in terms of access, but I don't think we can necessarily point to the fee and access plans as being the driver for some of those improvements.Hefin David AM: No, I appreciate that, and some of the things you're saying reflect some of the discussions we've had, but what was clear is that the process and bureaucratic nature of the way you present fee and access plans doesn't work, particularly given the fact that, four years on, early fee and access plans are still being evaluated. There's a real problem there. So, what you're saying--can I just pin down what you're saying--is that we may be moving away from yearly fee and access plans to something that's longer term and outcome focused.Kirsty Williams AM: That's my preference. So, I think the principle--I'd like to think we can all agree around the principle of what a fee and access plan is hoping to achieve, but I think there are better ways of doing were to do that because a university was breaking fee limits or because there were real questions about the quality of the provision or whether a university was not complying with the financial management code--personally, I wouldn't describe those as minor matters, as a Minister, if we had an institution that was significantly falling down on quality and HEFCW were using these powers to intervene. I wouldn't describe that as a minor matter.Dawn Bowden AM: No. That's fair enough. And, actually, on that point, we've had some recent high-profile issues in Swansea and Trinity St David, and HEFCW still haven't yet used their powers of intervention. Do you find that surprisingKirsty Williams AM: I think what they have done in these circumstances is, perhaps, used their ability to support those institutions through what, undoubtedly, have been challenging times. Given the fact that there are ongoing legal processes attached to Swansea University, I think it would not be appropriate for me to comment any further, because there are still matters in train with regard to that institution. But clearly, our expectation on HEFCW is to ensure that they are using their powers to support those universities, and I would expect them, if they felt necessary, to use the full remit of their powers if they felt that that was what they needed to do. Now, I have to trust their professional judgment that that has not been necessary to date, but our expectation is that they would do that if they felt it was necessary.Dawn Bowden AM: Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Chair.Lynne Neagle AM: Hefin David has some questions now on fee and access plans.Hefin David AM: Are you concerned that neither the regulator nor the sector seem to have any confidence in fee and access plansKirsty Williams AM: I think the concept of a fee and access plan is an important concept. Whether we can do them better, whether we can reflect on what's happened to date and create a better system of what's included in a fee and access plan and how those fee and access plans can be monitored, there's an opportunity to do that in forthcoming legislation.Hefin David AM: So, have you been aware of specific issues yourself Have they brought them to youKirsty Williams AM: Well, no, not in the sense that they've brought them to me to talk about specifically. From my perspective, fee and access plans are focused very much on inputs, and, really, I'd like to think about outputs and outcomes, more importantly--what are the outcomes of the fee and access plan, not necessarily just how much money has been spent on them. I think, certainly, to really understand the success of the fee and access plan, you have to question whether an annual basis is an appropriate timescale for a university to be working to, and whether we could have something that was focused over a longer period of time. Because, when you think about it, you write the plan and then you're into it, and then, the next thing you know, you're writing your next year's plan. So, I think there's an opportunity there to look to restructure. So, do I see a place for fee and access plans going forward, as part of our outcome agreements Yes, I do. Can we do them differently to make them more effective Yes, I think we can.Hefin David AM: So, why would introducing outcome agreements make them work any betterKirsty Williams AM: Well, I think they're going to be a part of an outcome agreement--part of that wider expectation. So, fee and available by the Welsh Government. So, I think we are, at this moment, relaxed about that, and there are some difficulties around deciding and introducing fee limits on postgraduate courses. I think what's really important to me is the success at the moment of attracting people to postgraduate and part-time study in Wales, as a result of our reforms to student finance. But, clearly, we'll need to keep that under review. But, at this current moment, the Act precludes fee regulation in some areas and there's not a pressing policy need that we've identified to date.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay. Thank you. Okay, we're going to move on now to some questions about the level of ambition in the higher education Act and any lessons for the PCET Bill, from Janet Finch-Saunders.Janet Finch-Saunders AM: Thank you. To what extent has the 2012 university funding system limited Welsh Government's policy leverage over the sector, and how has the HE Act addressed this beyond the levers offered by fee and access plansKirsty Williams AM: Of course, the Act was introduced as a direct result of the changing scenario around finance and the different ways in which, because of the reduction in HEFCW's budget, the level of influence that HEFCW would be able to exert over institutions through the imposition of terms and conditions of funding--. So, the Act was introduced in part to address that shift in influence and the Act also has provided HEFCW with a range of new powers of intervention and sanctions in the case of non-compliance by institutions. Personally, I wholeheartedly believe that tertiary education providers should contribute to national goals and outcomes as part of what I'd describe as a civic mission. I'm determined that any legislation that I bring forward and any commission that I establish will process--and wanting to make sure that the Bill that's laid next year hasn't been discussed with anybody else before it comes to be considered by the Senedd. So, the broad principles have been discussed, but specific details of what goes into a Bill or policy instructions that inform a Bill haven't been the subject of consultation--Hefin David AM: Because that happens at Stage 1.Huw Morris: Indeed, yes.Hefin David AM: Okay. Sorry, can I move on to the next itemLynne Neagle AM: Oh, you're going on to the next section.Hefin David AM: Yes, unless there's anything specific--Lynne Neagle AM: Yes, I just wanted to clarify, if we're moving to a longer term approach to this, how will the new body be able to establish that things are actually working, that the powers are working, if we're working on a five-year time frameKirsty Williams AM: As we've heard, we can't really properly assess fee and access plans in the current arrangements, because it takes time for those cohorts of students to go through and activities to go through. Being able to move to a system where fee and access plans, for instance, could be over a three-year period I think allows universities to be more strategic in some of their investments and some of their activities around fee and access. In a single-year plan, it's almost knee-jerk, it's the need to demonstrate that you're doing something, and doing that within that period of time, rather than a more strategic view--. Can I just say, I know it's not quite subject to this, but we're really moving forward in terms of access and broadening access into the HE sector. For me, student financial support is one aspect of it, but if we're really thinking about social mobility and attracting people into higher education

What did the meeting discuss about the advantage of the Act

Although highly challenged by the participants, Kirsty Williams AM argued that the Act had fulfilled the Government's objectives in regulating institutions, safeguarding contribution, managing fair access and protecting the principle of institutional autonomy. These strategic aims were still really important but in the new situation, it was required to recognise the higher education and research Bill across the border in England. In this case, to continue fulfilling its national outcomes, the Act should evolve by implementing new student support measures.

were to do that because a university was breaking fee limits or because there were real questions about the quality of the provision or whether a university was not complying with the financial management code--personally, I wouldn't describe those as minor matters, as a Minister, if we had an institution that was significantly falling down on quality and HEFCW were using these powers to intervene. I wouldn't describe that as a minor matter.Dawn Bowden AM: No. That's fair enough. And, actually, on that point, we've had some recent high-profile issues in Swansea and Trinity St David, and HEFCW still haven't yet used their powers of intervention. Do you find that surprisingKirsty Williams AM: I think what they have done in these circumstances is, perhaps, used their ability to support those institutions through what, undoubtedly, have been challenging times. Given the fact that there are ongoing legal processes attached to Swansea University, I think it would not be appropriate for me to comment any further, because there are still matters in train with regard to that institution. But clearly, our expectation on HEFCW is to ensure that they are using their powers to support those universities, and I would expect them, if they felt necessary, to use the full remit of their powers if they felt that that was what they needed to do. Now, I have to trust their professional judgment that that has not been necessary to date, but our expectation is that they would do that if they felt it was necessary.Dawn Bowden AM: Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Chair.Lynne Neagle AM: Hefin David has some questions now on fee and access plans.Hefin David AM: Are you concerned that neither the regulator nor the sector seem to have any confidence in fee and access plansKirsty Williams AM: I available by the Welsh Government. So, I think we are, at this moment, relaxed about that, and there are some difficulties around deciding and introducing fee limits on postgraduate courses. I think what's really important to me is the success at the moment of attracting people to postgraduate and part-time study in Wales, as a result of our reforms to student finance. But, clearly, we'll need to keep that under review. But, at this current moment, the Act precludes fee regulation in some areas and there's not a pressing policy need that we've identified to date.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay. Thank you. Okay, we're going to move on now to some questions about the level of ambition in the higher education Act and any lessons for the PCET Bill, from Janet Finch-Saunders.Janet Finch-Saunders AM: Thank you. To what extent has the 2012 university funding system limited Welsh Government's policy leverage over the sector, and how has the HE Act addressed this beyond the levers offered by fee and access plansKirsty Williams AM: Of course, the Act was introduced as a direct result of the changing scenario around finance and the different ways in which, because of the reduction in HEFCW's budget, the level of influence that HEFCW would be able to exert over institutions through the imposition of terms and conditions of funding--. So, the Act was introduced in part to address that shift in influence and the Act also has provided HEFCW with a range of new powers of intervention and sanctions in the case of non-compliance by institutions. Personally, I wholeheartedly believe that tertiary education providers should contribute to national goals and outcomes as part of what I'd describe as a civic mission. I'm determined that any legislation that I bring forward and any commission that I establish will want to reflect on and be mindful of as we take forward the new Bill, including the report of this committee as part of it. So, it is our intention that this Bill will be superceded by the new PCETR Bill.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay, thank you. We've got a series of questions now from Sian Gwenllian.Sian Gwenllian AM: Good morning. Do you believe that the Act has fulfilled all the Government's objectives Where are the weaknessesKirsty Williams AM: Diolch yn fawr, Sian. As I've said, it's a bit difficult to place myself in the mind of the previous Minister when this legislation was first envisaged and then taken through. You'll be aware that there were four main reasons for the introduction of the Bill: around regulation of institutions in Wales; safeguarding the contribution made to public good arising from Welsh Government's financial support for the sector; maintaining a focus on fair access; and preserving and protecting the principle of institutional autonomy. I think the evidence that has been received by the committee to date shows that there are different views about the effectiveness of whether all four strategic aims have been achieved. I think those strategic aims are still really, really important and certainly will underpin our thought process going forward, but we have to recognise the higher education and research Bill across the border in England, the implementation of new student support measures in Wales, as well as the report that was done by Ellen Hazelkorn, I think, means it is appropriate that we move forward with different proposals, not just regulation of the HE sector but the post-compulsory sector as a whole. We will look to see what we can do to strengthen or whether there is more that we need to do to achieve those four objectives, process--and wanting to make sure that the Bill that's laid next year hasn't been discussed with anybody else before it comes to be considered by the Senedd. So, the broad principles have been discussed, but specific details of what goes into a Bill or policy instructions that inform a Bill haven't been the subject of consultation--Hefin David AM: Because that happens at Stage 1.Huw Morris: Indeed, yes.Hefin David AM: Okay. Sorry, can I move on to the next itemLynne Neagle AM: Oh, you're going on to the next section.Hefin David AM: Yes, unless there's anything specific--Lynne Neagle AM: Yes, I just wanted to clarify, if we're moving to a longer term approach to this, how will the new body be able to establish that things are actually working, that the powers are working, if we're working on a five-year time frameKirsty Williams AM: As we've heard, we can't really properly assess fee and access plans in the current arrangements, because it takes time for those cohorts of students to go through and activities to go through. Being able to move to a system where fee and access plans, for instance, could be over a three-year period I think allows universities to be more strategic in some of their investments and some of their activities around fee and access. In a single-year plan, it's almost knee-jerk, it's the need to demonstrate that you're doing something, and doing that within that period of time, rather than a more strategic view--. Can I just say, I know it's not quite subject to this, but we're really moving forward in terms of access and broadening access into the HE sector. For me, student financial support is one aspect of it, but if we're really thinking about social mobility and attracting people into higher education Lynne Neagle AM: Good morning, everyone. Welcome to the Children, Young People and Education Committee. We've received apologies for absence from Suzy Davies and there is no substitute. Janet Finch-Saunders is joining us from the Assembly offices in Colwyn Bay via video conference. Can I ask Members if there are any declarations of interest, please No. Okay. Item 2, then, this morning is a post-legislative scrutiny session on the Higher Education (Wales) Act 2015. I'm very pleased to welcome Kirsty Williams AM, Minister for Education, and Huw Morris, who is director of the skills, higher education and lifelong learning group in Welsh Government. Thank you, both, for attending, and thank you for the paper that you provided in advance. I will just start the questioning by asking whether you are planning to repeal the 2015 higher education Act, or will it be amended by the post-compulsory education and training BillKirsty Williams AM: Thank you very much, Chair. I'm very pleased to be with the committee again this morning, although it's in slightly unusual circumstances. As a piece of post-legislative scrutiny, this was a Bill that was taken forward by a different Minister in a different administration, but I think it is really valuable work in the context of the question you just set out: what can we learn from the implementation of this piece of legislation as we move forward with our reform journey and with this Government and my proposals to introduce a new commission for tertiary education There is much, at the moment, that lies within the 2015 Act that we will look to bring forward into the new legislation, but there are certainly experiences--and I'm sure we'll come on to some of the evidence that has been received about what's worked, what perhaps hasn't worked--that we all

What did the meeting discuss about the weakness of the Act

The Act was considered that the legislation itself was not strong enough by Sian Gwenllian AM and Kirsty Williams AM agreed that remit letters were a really important way in which national priorities could be preserved. Moreover, it was stressed that it was important to make the distinction between the scale of private providers, and what could be termed as'unregulated providers'in the Welsh system. In this case, they should be designated on a case-by-case basis and always be able to protect the interests of the students. Besides, Kirsty Williams AM pointed out that the government had not identified an urgent reason to designate different types of courses as qualifying courses for the purposes of a fee limit, but in fact, the regulation for each type of them did differ from each other.

were to do that because a university was breaking fee limits or because there were real questions about the quality of the provision or whether a university was not complying with the financial management code--personally, I wouldn't describe those as minor matters, as a Minister, if we had an institution that was significantly falling down on quality and HEFCW were using these powers to intervene. I wouldn't describe that as a minor matter.Dawn Bowden AM: No. That's fair enough. And, actually, on that point, we've had some recent high-profile issues in Swansea and Trinity St David, and HEFCW still haven't yet used their powers of intervention. Do you find that surprisingKirsty Williams AM: I think what they have done in these circumstances is, perhaps, used their ability to support those institutions through what, undoubtedly, have been challenging times. Given the fact that there are ongoing legal processes attached to Swansea University, I think it would not be appropriate for me to comment any further, because there are still matters in train with regard to that institution. But clearly, our expectation on HEFCW is to ensure that they are using their powers to support those universities, and I would expect them, if they felt necessary, to use the full remit of their powers if they felt that that was what they needed to do. Now, I have to trust their professional judgment that that has not been necessary to date, but our expectation is that they would do that if they felt it was necessary.Dawn Bowden AM: Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Chair.Lynne Neagle AM: Hefin David has some questions now on fee and access plans.Hefin David AM: Are you concerned that neither the regulator nor the sector seem to have any confidence in fee and access plansKirsty Williams AM: I be empowered to enable that to happen through its regulatory and funding powers. Of course, the funding situation has shifted again now because of the introduction of what is commonly known as the Diamond reforms, but our new system of student finance does again shift the parameters of influence that HEFCW or any new tertiary commission could have. But, as I said earlier, it's not to say that institutions have had a free reign. We have been able to use the remit letter and our relationship with HEFCW to progress agendas that we would want to see. So, for instance, you'll be aware, in my remit letter, I am concerned about issues around how people working in the sector are paid. We've been able to successfully see all institutions sign up to becoming living wage employers, all institutions sign up to the Welsh Government's code of ethical procurement. So, it's not to say that the Act has meant that we've had no influence, but there are opportunities now, because of the change in financial circumstances once again, to look at that in any forthcoming legislation.Janet Finch-Saunders AM: Thank you, Minister. Do you share HEFCW's views on the benefits of having national targets to get institutions to address national priorities Is this something you wish you could doKirsty Williams AM: Well, it's not something I wish I could do; I think that we're doing it. Self-praise is no recommendation, but, because of the working relationship that we have, I think we're seeing some success in using the remit letter to influence national outcomes. So, I've just talked about living wage; we're also using our remit letter to drive transparency over senior leaders'pay, the gender pay gap within institutions. For instance, as part of this Government's commitment to improving mental health, we've think the concept of a fee and access plan is an important concept. Whether we can do them better, whether we can reflect on what's happened to date and create a better system of what's included in a fee and access plan and how those fee and access plans can be monitored, there's an opportunity to do that in forthcoming legislation.Hefin David AM: So, have you been aware of specific issues yourself Have they brought them to youKirsty Williams AM: Well, no, not in the sense that they've brought them to me to talk about specifically. From my perspective, fee and access plans are focused very much on inputs, and, really, I'd like to think about outputs and outcomes, more importantly--what are the outcomes of the fee and access plan, not necessarily just how much money has been spent on them. I think, certainly, to really understand the success of the fee and access plan, you have to question whether an annual basis is an appropriate timescale for a university to be working to, and whether we could have something that was focused over a longer period of time. Because, when you think about it, you write the plan and then you're into it, and then, the next thing you know, you're writing your next year's plan. So, I think there's an opportunity there to look to restructure. So, do I see a place for fee and access plans going forward, as part of our outcome agreements Yes, I do. Can we do them differently to make them more effective Yes, I think we can.Hefin David AM: So, why would introducing outcome agreements make them work any betterKirsty Williams AM: Well, I think they're going to be a part of an outcome agreement--part of that wider expectation. So, fee and available by the Welsh Government. So, I think we are, at this moment, relaxed about that, and there are some difficulties around deciding and introducing fee limits on postgraduate courses. I think what's really important to me is the success at the moment of attracting people to postgraduate and part-time study in Wales, as a result of our reforms to student finance. But, clearly, we'll need to keep that under review. But, at this current moment, the Act precludes fee regulation in some areas and there's not a pressing policy need that we've identified to date.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay. Thank you. Okay, we're going to move on now to some questions about the level of ambition in the higher education Act and any lessons for the PCET Bill, from Janet Finch-Saunders.Janet Finch-Saunders AM: Thank you. To what extent has the 2012 university funding system limited Welsh Government's policy leverage over the sector, and how has the HE Act addressed this beyond the levers offered by fee and access plansKirsty Williams AM: Of course, the Act was introduced as a direct result of the changing scenario around finance and the different ways in which, because of the reduction in HEFCW's budget, the level of influence that HEFCW would be able to exert over institutions through the imposition of terms and conditions of funding--. So, the Act was introduced in part to address that shift in influence and the Act also has provided HEFCW with a range of new powers of intervention and sanctions in the case of non-compliance by institutions. Personally, I wholeheartedly believe that tertiary education providers should contribute to national goals and outcomes as part of what I'd describe as a civic mission. I'm determined that any legislation that I bring forward and any commission that I establish will process--and wanting to make sure that the Bill that's laid next year hasn't been discussed with anybody else before it comes to be considered by the Senedd. So, the broad principles have been discussed, but specific details of what goes into a Bill or policy instructions that inform a Bill haven't been the subject of consultation--Hefin David AM: Because that happens at Stage 1.Huw Morris: Indeed, yes.Hefin David AM: Okay. Sorry, can I move on to the next itemLynne Neagle AM: Oh, you're going on to the next section.Hefin David AM: Yes, unless there's anything specific--Lynne Neagle AM: Yes, I just wanted to clarify, if we're moving to a longer term approach to this, how will the new body be able to establish that things are actually working, that the powers are working, if we're working on a five-year time frameKirsty Williams AM: As we've heard, we can't really properly assess fee and access plans in the current arrangements, because it takes time for those cohorts of students to go through and activities to go through. Being able to move to a system where fee and access plans, for instance, could be over a three-year period I think allows universities to be more strategic in some of their investments and some of their activities around fee and access. In a single-year plan, it's almost knee-jerk, it's the need to demonstrate that you're doing something, and doing that within that period of time, rather than a more strategic view--. Can I just say, I know it's not quite subject to this, but we're really moving forward in terms of access and broadening access into the HE sector. For me, student financial support is one aspect of it, but if we're really thinking about social mobility and attracting people into higher education

What had the Act and the Bill already achieved

To answer this question, Kirsty Williams AM first introduced the achievements that the new system of student finance did again shift the parameters of influence that HEFCW or any new tertiary commission could have in the different situations, as a direct result of the changing scenario. Moreover, it was a great success to see all institutions sign up to becoming living wage employers, all institutions sign up to the Welsh Government's code of ethical procurement.

were to do that because a university was breaking fee limits or because there were real questions about the quality of the provision or whether a university was not complying with the financial management code--personally, I wouldn't describe those as minor matters, as a Minister, if we had an institution that was significantly falling down on quality and HEFCW were using these powers to intervene. I wouldn't describe that as a minor matter.Dawn Bowden AM: No. That's fair enough. And, actually, on that point, we've had some recent high-profile issues in Swansea and Trinity St David, and HEFCW still haven't yet used their powers of intervention. Do you find that surprisingKirsty Williams AM: I think what they have done in these circumstances is, perhaps, used their ability to support those institutions through what, undoubtedly, have been challenging times. Given the fact that there are ongoing legal processes attached to Swansea University, I think it would not be appropriate for me to comment any further, because there are still matters in train with regard to that institution. But clearly, our expectation on HEFCW is to ensure that they are using their powers to support those universities, and I would expect them, if they felt necessary, to use the full remit of their powers if they felt that that was what they needed to do. Now, I have to trust their professional judgment that that has not been necessary to date, but our expectation is that they would do that if they felt it was necessary.Dawn Bowden AM: Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Chair.Lynne Neagle AM: Hefin David has some questions now on fee and access plans.Hefin David AM: Are you concerned that neither the regulator nor the sector seem to have any confidence in fee and access plansKirsty Williams AM: I be empowered to enable that to happen through its regulatory and funding powers. Of course, the funding situation has shifted again now because of the introduction of what is commonly known as the Diamond reforms, but our new system of student finance does again shift the parameters of influence that HEFCW or any new tertiary commission could have. But, as I said earlier, it's not to say that institutions have had a free reign. We have been able to use the remit letter and our relationship with HEFCW to progress agendas that we would want to see. So, for instance, you'll be aware, in my remit letter, I am concerned about issues around how people working in the sector are paid. We've been able to successfully see all institutions sign up to becoming living wage employers, all institutions sign up to the Welsh Government's code of ethical procurement. So, it's not to say that the Act has meant that we've had no influence, but there are opportunities now, because of the change in financial circumstances once again, to look at that in any forthcoming legislation.Janet Finch-Saunders AM: Thank you, Minister. Do you share HEFCW's views on the benefits of having national targets to get institutions to address national priorities Is this something you wish you could doKirsty Williams AM: Well, it's not something I wish I could do; I think that we're doing it. Self-praise is no recommendation, but, because of the working relationship that we have, I think we're seeing some success in using the remit letter to influence national outcomes. So, I've just talked about living wage; we're also using our remit letter to drive transparency over senior leaders'pay, the gender pay gap within institutions. For instance, as part of this Government's commitment to improving mental health, we've access plans are there to address an issue around, primarily, changing the nature of people who go to university and making sure that nobody is put off from pursuing that. So, that's part of a wider piece of work that I'd want to see as an outcome agreement. But, as I said, I think looking at outcomes for students and outcomes of that activity, rather than the inputs of the activity, over a longer period of time, is probably a more effective way of doing it. I think it's still--. In a way, it's difficult to make a final judgment on whether fee and access plans in their current format have worked, because we need to know what'll happen to those students in the future. But undoubtedly, despite the limitations of them, I do think we're making progress in terms of access, but I don't think we can necessarily point to the fee and access plans as being the driver for some of those improvements.Hefin David AM: No, I appreciate that, and some of the things you're saying reflect some of the discussions we've had, but what was clear is that the process and bureaucratic nature of the way you present fee and access plans doesn't work, particularly given the fact that, four years on, early fee and access plans are still being evaluated. There's a real problem there. So, what you're saying--can I just pin down what you're saying--is that we may be moving away from yearly fee and access plans to something that's longer term and outcome focused.Kirsty Williams AM: That's my preference. So, I think the principle--I'd like to think we can all agree around the principle of what a fee and access plan is hoping to achieve, but I think there are better ways of doing think the concept of a fee and access plan is an important concept. Whether we can do them better, whether we can reflect on what's happened to date and create a better system of what's included in a fee and access plan and how those fee and access plans can be monitored, there's an opportunity to do that in forthcoming legislation.Hefin David AM: So, have you been aware of specific issues yourself Have they brought them to youKirsty Williams AM: Well, no, not in the sense that they've brought them to me to talk about specifically. From my perspective, fee and access plans are focused very much on inputs, and, really, I'd like to think about outputs and outcomes, more importantly--what are the outcomes of the fee and access plan, not necessarily just how much money has been spent on them. I think, certainly, to really understand the success of the fee and access plan, you have to question whether an annual basis is an appropriate timescale for a university to be working to, and whether we could have something that was focused over a longer period of time. Because, when you think about it, you write the plan and then you're into it, and then, the next thing you know, you're writing your next year's plan. So, I think there's an opportunity there to look to restructure. So, do I see a place for fee and access plans going forward, as part of our outcome agreements Yes, I do. Can we do them differently to make them more effective Yes, I think we can.Hefin David AM: So, why would introducing outcome agreements make them work any betterKirsty Williams AM: Well, I think they're going to be a part of an outcome agreement--part of that wider expectation. So, fee and available by the Welsh Government. So, I think we are, at this moment, relaxed about that, and there are some difficulties around deciding and introducing fee limits on postgraduate courses. I think what's really important to me is the success at the moment of attracting people to postgraduate and part-time study in Wales, as a result of our reforms to student finance. But, clearly, we'll need to keep that under review. But, at this current moment, the Act precludes fee regulation in some areas and there's not a pressing policy need that we've identified to date.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay. Thank you. Okay, we're going to move on now to some questions about the level of ambition in the higher education Act and any lessons for the PCET Bill, from Janet Finch-Saunders.Janet Finch-Saunders AM: Thank you. To what extent has the 2012 university funding system limited Welsh Government's policy leverage over the sector, and how has the HE Act addressed this beyond the levers offered by fee and access plansKirsty Williams AM: Of course, the Act was introduced as a direct result of the changing scenario around finance and the different ways in which, because of the reduction in HEFCW's budget, the level of influence that HEFCW would be able to exert over institutions through the imposition of terms and conditions of funding--. So, the Act was introduced in part to address that shift in influence and the Act also has provided HEFCW with a range of new powers of intervention and sanctions in the case of non-compliance by institutions. Personally, I wholeheartedly believe that tertiary education providers should contribute to national goals and outcomes as part of what I'd describe as a civic mission. I'm determined that any legislation that I bring forward and any commission that I establish will

How could the Act and the Bill be improved

Currently, the government planned to use the remit letter to drive transparency over senior leaders'pay, the gender pay gap within institutions. For instance, it had been a success to use the remit letter and some funding to drive change and some improvements in mental health in the higher education sector. To conclude, Kirsty Williams AM suggested that the new PCET reforms were aimed to create a legislative regime and a regulation regime that encouraged collaboration and co-operation across the sector.

be empowered to enable that to happen through its regulatory and funding powers. Of course, the funding situation has shifted again now because of the introduction of what is commonly known as the Diamond reforms, but our new system of student finance does again shift the parameters of influence that HEFCW or any new tertiary commission could have. But, as I said earlier, it's not to say that institutions have had a free reign. We have been able to use the remit letter and our relationship with HEFCW to progress agendas that we would want to see. So, for instance, you'll be aware, in my remit letter, I am concerned about issues around how people working in the sector are paid. We've been able to successfully see all institutions sign up to becoming living wage employers, all institutions sign up to the Welsh Government's code of ethical procurement. So, it's not to say that the Act has meant that we've had no influence, but there are opportunities now, because of the change in financial circumstances once again, to look at that in any forthcoming legislation.Janet Finch-Saunders AM: Thank you, Minister. Do you share HEFCW's views on the benefits of having national targets to get institutions to address national priorities Is this something you wish you could doKirsty Williams AM: Well, it's not something I wish I could do; I think that we're doing it. Self-praise is no recommendation, but, because of the working relationship that we have, I think we're seeing some success in using the remit letter to influence national outcomes. So, I've just talked about living wage; we're also using our remit letter to drive transparency over senior leaders'pay, the gender pay gap within institutions. For instance, as part of this Government's commitment to improving mental health, we've were to do that because a university was breaking fee limits or because there were real questions about the quality of the provision or whether a university was not complying with the financial management code--personally, I wouldn't describe those as minor matters, as a Minister, if we had an institution that was significantly falling down on quality and HEFCW were using these powers to intervene. I wouldn't describe that as a minor matter.Dawn Bowden AM: No. That's fair enough. And, actually, on that point, we've had some recent high-profile issues in Swansea and Trinity St David, and HEFCW still haven't yet used their powers of intervention. Do you find that surprisingKirsty Williams AM: I think what they have done in these circumstances is, perhaps, used their ability to support those institutions through what, undoubtedly, have been challenging times. Given the fact that there are ongoing legal processes attached to Swansea University, I think it would not be appropriate for me to comment any further, because there are still matters in train with regard to that institution. But clearly, our expectation on HEFCW is to ensure that they are using their powers to support those universities, and I would expect them, if they felt necessary, to use the full remit of their powers if they felt that that was what they needed to do. Now, I have to trust their professional judgment that that has not been necessary to date, but our expectation is that they would do that if they felt it was necessary.Dawn Bowden AM: Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Chair.Lynne Neagle AM: Hefin David has some questions now on fee and access plans.Hefin David AM: Are you concerned that neither the regulator nor the sector seem to have any confidence in fee and access plansKirsty Williams AM: I available by the Welsh Government. So, I think we are, at this moment, relaxed about that, and there are some difficulties around deciding and introducing fee limits on postgraduate courses. I think what's really important to me is the success at the moment of attracting people to postgraduate and part-time study in Wales, as a result of our reforms to student finance. But, clearly, we'll need to keep that under review. But, at this current moment, the Act precludes fee regulation in some areas and there's not a pressing policy need that we've identified to date.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay. Thank you. Okay, we're going to move on now to some questions about the level of ambition in the higher education Act and any lessons for the PCET Bill, from Janet Finch-Saunders.Janet Finch-Saunders AM: Thank you. To what extent has the 2012 university funding system limited Welsh Government's policy leverage over the sector, and how has the HE Act addressed this beyond the levers offered by fee and access plansKirsty Williams AM: Of course, the Act was introduced as a direct result of the changing scenario around finance and the different ways in which, because of the reduction in HEFCW's budget, the level of influence that HEFCW would be able to exert over institutions through the imposition of terms and conditions of funding--. So, the Act was introduced in part to address that shift in influence and the Act also has provided HEFCW with a range of new powers of intervention and sanctions in the case of non-compliance by institutions. Personally, I wholeheartedly believe that tertiary education providers should contribute to national goals and outcomes as part of what I'd describe as a civic mission. I'm determined that any legislation that I bring forward and any commission that I establish will they can provide higher education in Wales. What is your view on this, and will the new legislation continue with the requirement of being a charityKirsty Williams AM: Okay. So, I think, first of all, it's important to make the distinction between the scale of private providers, and what could be termed as'unregulated providers'in the Welsh system, as opposed to the English system. And I think that's a really important distinction to make. So, currently, under the current legislation, unregulated providers can only access Welsh Government student support if they're designated on a case-by-case basis. So, we do have a circumstance where--and a process in place, to manage this. So, we have a specific designation policy, which is operated on our behalf by HEFCW. Only six organisations were designated on a case-by-case basis in the 2018-19 academic year, so the scale here is small. Three of those were further education colleges. So, when we talk about a private provider, perhaps people would have a view of a private university, but, actually, three of those were FE colleges, which we would all be familiar with. And the three private providers were the Centre for Alternative Technology, the training arm of the Church in Wales and the Newport and District Group Training Association. All three of those are actual charities. So, in order for their courses to be specifically designated, the three crucial questions that those providers have to answer are: quality--is what they're providing to students of a good quality; the financial viability of the institution, again, to try to protect the interests of the students who may find themselves embarking on a course in an institution that isn't viable; as well as their contribution to private--sorry, not to private good--public good. And we are considering how that part of the process--and wanting to make sure that the Bill that's laid next year hasn't been discussed with anybody else before it comes to be considered by the Senedd. So, the broad principles have been discussed, but specific details of what goes into a Bill or policy instructions that inform a Bill haven't been the subject of consultation--Hefin David AM: Because that happens at Stage 1.Huw Morris: Indeed, yes.Hefin David AM: Okay. Sorry, can I move on to the next itemLynne Neagle AM: Oh, you're going on to the next section.Hefin David AM: Yes, unless there's anything specific--Lynne Neagle AM: Yes, I just wanted to clarify, if we're moving to a longer term approach to this, how will the new body be able to establish that things are actually working, that the powers are working, if we're working on a five-year time frameKirsty Williams AM: As we've heard, we can't really properly assess fee and access plans in the current arrangements, because it takes time for those cohorts of students to go through and activities to go through. Being able to move to a system where fee and access plans, for instance, could be over a three-year period I think allows universities to be more strategic in some of their investments and some of their activities around fee and access. In a single-year plan, it's almost knee-jerk, it's the need to demonstrate that you're doing something, and doing that within that period of time, rather than a more strategic view--. Can I just say, I know it's not quite subject to this, but we're really moving forward in terms of access and broadening access into the HE sector. For me, student financial support is one aspect of it, but if we're really thinking about social mobility and attracting people into higher education

What was the current situation about HEFCW's powers of intervention

Dawn Bowden AM challenged that informal measures or actions had been taken in their role as regulator, and Kirsty Williams AM explained that the commission was expected to be able to have a series of abilities to intervene, from the soft, flexible type, which was non-punitive but actually allowed people to participate in it. Meanwhile, Huw Morris suggested that specific mechanisms and informal interactions with FE college principals, with the work-based learning provider network, etc had been used to hopefully achieve some alignment in the tertiary sector. Also, as a loan-based system of student finance, a system of block grant allocations and conditions could be attached to those grant allocations by HEFCW when things went wrong.

be empowered to enable that to happen through its regulatory and funding powers. Of course, the funding situation has shifted again now because of the introduction of what is commonly known as the Diamond reforms, but our new system of student finance does again shift the parameters of influence that HEFCW or any new tertiary commission could have. But, as I said earlier, it's not to say that institutions have had a free reign. We have been able to use the remit letter and our relationship with HEFCW to progress agendas that we would want to see. So, for instance, you'll be aware, in my remit letter, I am concerned about issues around how people working in the sector are paid. We've been able to successfully see all institutions sign up to becoming living wage employers, all institutions sign up to the Welsh Government's code of ethical procurement. So, it's not to say that the Act has meant that we've had no influence, but there are opportunities now, because of the change in financial circumstances once again, to look at that in any forthcoming legislation.Janet Finch-Saunders AM: Thank you, Minister. Do you share HEFCW's views on the benefits of having national targets to get institutions to address national priorities Is this something you wish you could doKirsty Williams AM: Well, it's not something I wish I could do; I think that we're doing it. Self-praise is no recommendation, but, because of the working relationship that we have, I think we're seeing some success in using the remit letter to influence national outcomes. So, I've just talked about living wage; we're also using our remit letter to drive transparency over senior leaders'pay, the gender pay gap within institutions. For instance, as part of this Government's commitment to improving mental health, we've Lynne Neagle AM: Good morning, everyone. Welcome to the Children, Young People and Education Committee. We've received apologies for absence from Suzy Davies and there is no substitute. Janet Finch-Saunders is joining us from the Assembly offices in Colwyn Bay via video conference. Can I ask Members if there are any declarations of interest, please No. Okay. Item 2, then, this morning is a post-legislative scrutiny session on the Higher Education (Wales) Act 2015. I'm very pleased to welcome Kirsty Williams AM, Minister for Education, and Huw Morris, who is director of the skills, higher education and lifelong learning group in Welsh Government. Thank you, both, for attending, and thank you for the paper that you provided in advance. I will just start the questioning by asking whether you are planning to repeal the 2015 higher education Act, or will it be amended by the post-compulsory education and training BillKirsty Williams AM: Thank you very much, Chair. I'm very pleased to be with the committee again this morning, although it's in slightly unusual circumstances. As a piece of post-legislative scrutiny, this was a Bill that was taken forward by a different Minister in a different administration, but I think it is really valuable work in the context of the question you just set out: what can we learn from the implementation of this piece of legislation as we move forward with our reform journey and with this Government and my proposals to introduce a new commission for tertiary education There is much, at the moment, that lies within the 2015 Act that we will look to bring forward into the new legislation, but there are certainly experiences--and I'm sure we'll come on to some of the evidence that has been received about what's worked, what perhaps hasn't worked--that we all were to do that because a university was breaking fee limits or because there were real questions about the quality of the provision or whether a university was not complying with the financial management code--personally, I wouldn't describe those as minor matters, as a Minister, if we had an institution that was significantly falling down on quality and HEFCW were using these powers to intervene. I wouldn't describe that as a minor matter.Dawn Bowden AM: No. That's fair enough. And, actually, on that point, we've had some recent high-profile issues in Swansea and Trinity St David, and HEFCW still haven't yet used their powers of intervention. Do you find that surprisingKirsty Williams AM: I think what they have done in these circumstances is, perhaps, used their ability to support those institutions through what, undoubtedly, have been challenging times. Given the fact that there are ongoing legal processes attached to Swansea University, I think it would not be appropriate for me to comment any further, because there are still matters in train with regard to that institution. But clearly, our expectation on HEFCW is to ensure that they are using their powers to support those universities, and I would expect them, if they felt necessary, to use the full remit of their powers if they felt that that was what they needed to do. Now, I have to trust their professional judgment that that has not been necessary to date, but our expectation is that they would do that if they felt it was necessary.Dawn Bowden AM: Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Chair.Lynne Neagle AM: Hefin David has some questions now on fee and access plans.Hefin David AM: Are you concerned that neither the regulator nor the sector seem to have any confidence in fee and access plansKirsty Williams AM: I available by the Welsh Government. So, I think we are, at this moment, relaxed about that, and there are some difficulties around deciding and introducing fee limits on postgraduate courses. I think what's really important to me is the success at the moment of attracting people to postgraduate and part-time study in Wales, as a result of our reforms to student finance. But, clearly, we'll need to keep that under review. But, at this current moment, the Act precludes fee regulation in some areas and there's not a pressing policy need that we've identified to date.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay. Thank you. Okay, we're going to move on now to some questions about the level of ambition in the higher education Act and any lessons for the PCET Bill, from Janet Finch-Saunders.Janet Finch-Saunders AM: Thank you. To what extent has the 2012 university funding system limited Welsh Government's policy leverage over the sector, and how has the HE Act addressed this beyond the levers offered by fee and access plansKirsty Williams AM: Of course, the Act was introduced as a direct result of the changing scenario around finance and the different ways in which, because of the reduction in HEFCW's budget, the level of influence that HEFCW would be able to exert over institutions through the imposition of terms and conditions of funding--. So, the Act was introduced in part to address that shift in influence and the Act also has provided HEFCW with a range of new powers of intervention and sanctions in the case of non-compliance by institutions. Personally, I wholeheartedly believe that tertiary education providers should contribute to national goals and outcomes as part of what I'd describe as a civic mission. I'm determined that any legislation that I bring forward and any commission that I establish will been able to use the remit letter and some funding to be able to drive change and some improvements in mental health in the higher education sector. These are national priorities and we're acting upon them and we're using the multiple levers we have at the moment to engage in universities. And, I have to say, universities have risen to that challenge, and I'm very grateful to them for doing that.Janet Finch-Saunders AM: Thank you. Are there plans to give the proposed new PCET funding body more effective policy levers to align the sector to the social, economic and civic needs of Wales And, if so, how will this be doneKirsty Williams AM: Well, as I said in answer earlier, I'm determined that we ensure a sense of civic mission for the entirety of the sector, including our institutes of higher education. You'll be aware, Janet, that, in the consultation exercises that have been undertaken by the Government so far on PCET reform, we will be introducing more formal outcome agreements, whereby institutions might be given by the commission very clear expectations of how they're expected to contribute to national priorities.Janet Finch-Saunders AM: Thanks. We've heard that the HE Act, by focusing on individual institutions, did not encourage collaboration, even for widening access activity. Was this a missed opportunity and how will this be taken forward in the PCET BillKirsty Williams AM: I think we can strengthen our sector by closer collaboration. I think what sets us apart in Wales is that this Government is determined to create a legislative regime and a regulation regime that encourages collaboration and co-operation, which is in stark contrast to the marketisation and the competition that we see being regulated for and legislated for across the border in England. That's one of the reasons

What did the meeting talk about to control HEFCW's powers of intervention

Huw Morris started by introducing the focus on learning from other nations to track the information flows and help the universities in return. Meanwhile, Kirsty Williams AM suggested a balance to be achieved by each part of the participants. However, Dawn Bowden AM questioned about HEFCW's use of informal measures which might not be as prevalent as they currently are. Kirsty Williams AM answered that it should be remembered that HEFCW would surely be replaced, and a more flexible way would be adopted to control the financial codes of universities to assure the quality of the provision.

be empowered to enable that to happen through its regulatory and funding powers. Of course, the funding situation has shifted again now because of the introduction of what is commonly known as the Diamond reforms, but our new system of student finance does again shift the parameters of influence that HEFCW or any new tertiary commission could have. But, as I said earlier, it's not to say that institutions have had a free reign. We have been able to use the remit letter and our relationship with HEFCW to progress agendas that we would want to see. So, for instance, you'll be aware, in my remit letter, I am concerned about issues around how people working in the sector are paid. We've been able to successfully see all institutions sign up to becoming living wage employers, all institutions sign up to the Welsh Government's code of ethical procurement. So, it's not to say that the Act has meant that we've had no influence, but there are opportunities now, because of the change in financial circumstances once again, to look at that in any forthcoming legislation.Janet Finch-Saunders AM: Thank you, Minister. Do you share HEFCW's views on the benefits of having national targets to get institutions to address national priorities Is this something you wish you could doKirsty Williams AM: Well, it's not something I wish I could do; I think that we're doing it. Self-praise is no recommendation, but, because of the working relationship that we have, I think we're seeing some success in using the remit letter to influence national outcomes. So, I've just talked about living wage; we're also using our remit letter to drive transparency over senior leaders'pay, the gender pay gap within institutions. For instance, as part of this Government's commitment to improving mental health, we've think the concept of a fee and access plan is an important concept. Whether we can do them better, whether we can reflect on what's happened to date and create a better system of what's included in a fee and access plan and how those fee and access plans can be monitored, there's an opportunity to do that in forthcoming legislation.Hefin David AM: So, have you been aware of specific issues yourself Have they brought them to youKirsty Williams AM: Well, no, not in the sense that they've brought them to me to talk about specifically. From my perspective, fee and access plans are focused very much on inputs, and, really, I'd like to think about outputs and outcomes, more importantly--what are the outcomes of the fee and access plan, not necessarily just how much money has been spent on them. I think, certainly, to really understand the success of the fee and access plan, you have to question whether an annual basis is an appropriate timescale for a university to be working to, and whether we could have something that was focused over a longer period of time. Because, when you think about it, you write the plan and then you're into it, and then, the next thing you know, you're writing your next year's plan. So, I think there's an opportunity there to look to restructure. So, do I see a place for fee and access plans going forward, as part of our outcome agreements Yes, I do. Can we do them differently to make them more effective Yes, I think we can.Hefin David AM: So, why would introducing outcome agreements make them work any betterKirsty Williams AM: Well, I think they're going to be a part of an outcome agreement--part of that wider expectation. So, fee and access plans are there to address an issue around, primarily, changing the nature of people who go to university and making sure that nobody is put off from pursuing that. So, that's part of a wider piece of work that I'd want to see as an outcome agreement. But, as I said, I think looking at outcomes for students and outcomes of that activity, rather than the inputs of the activity, over a longer period of time, is probably a more effective way of doing it. I think it's still--. In a way, it's difficult to make a final judgment on whether fee and access plans in their current format have worked, because we need to know what'll happen to those students in the future. But undoubtedly, despite the limitations of them, I do think we're making progress in terms of access, but I don't think we can necessarily point to the fee and access plans as being the driver for some of those improvements.Hefin David AM: No, I appreciate that, and some of the things you're saying reflect some of the discussions we've had, but what was clear is that the process and bureaucratic nature of the way you present fee and access plans doesn't work, particularly given the fact that, four years on, early fee and access plans are still being evaluated. There's a real problem there. So, what you're saying--can I just pin down what you're saying--is that we may be moving away from yearly fee and access plans to something that's longer term and outcome focused.Kirsty Williams AM: That's my preference. So, I think the principle--I'd like to think we can all agree around the principle of what a fee and access plan is hoping to achieve, but I think there are better ways of doing were to do that because a university was breaking fee limits or because there were real questions about the quality of the provision or whether a university was not complying with the financial management code--personally, I wouldn't describe those as minor matters, as a Minister, if we had an institution that was significantly falling down on quality and HEFCW were using these powers to intervene. I wouldn't describe that as a minor matter.Dawn Bowden AM: No. That's fair enough. And, actually, on that point, we've had some recent high-profile issues in Swansea and Trinity St David, and HEFCW still haven't yet used their powers of intervention. Do you find that surprisingKirsty Williams AM: I think what they have done in these circumstances is, perhaps, used their ability to support those institutions through what, undoubtedly, have been challenging times. Given the fact that there are ongoing legal processes attached to Swansea University, I think it would not be appropriate for me to comment any further, because there are still matters in train with regard to that institution. But clearly, our expectation on HEFCW is to ensure that they are using their powers to support those universities, and I would expect them, if they felt necessary, to use the full remit of their powers if they felt that that was what they needed to do. Now, I have to trust their professional judgment that that has not been necessary to date, but our expectation is that they would do that if they felt it was necessary.Dawn Bowden AM: Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Chair.Lynne Neagle AM: Hefin David has some questions now on fee and access plans.Hefin David AM: Are you concerned that neither the regulator nor the sector seem to have any confidence in fee and access plansKirsty Williams AM: I want to reflect on and be mindful of as we take forward the new Bill, including the report of this committee as part of it. So, it is our intention that this Bill will be superceded by the new PCETR Bill.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay, thank you. We've got a series of questions now from Sian Gwenllian.Sian Gwenllian AM: Good morning. Do you believe that the Act has fulfilled all the Government's objectives Where are the weaknessesKirsty Williams AM: Diolch yn fawr, Sian. As I've said, it's a bit difficult to place myself in the mind of the previous Minister when this legislation was first envisaged and then taken through. You'll be aware that there were four main reasons for the introduction of the Bill: around regulation of institutions in Wales; safeguarding the contribution made to public good arising from Welsh Government's financial support for the sector; maintaining a focus on fair access; and preserving and protecting the principle of institutional autonomy. I think the evidence that has been received by the committee to date shows that there are different views about the effectiveness of whether all four strategic aims have been achieved. I think those strategic aims are still really, really important and certainly will underpin our thought process going forward, but we have to recognise the higher education and research Bill across the border in England, the implementation of new student support measures in Wales, as well as the report that was done by Ellen Hazelkorn, I think, means it is appropriate that we move forward with different proposals, not just regulation of the HE sector but the post-compulsory sector as a whole. We will look to see what we can do to strengthen or whether there is more that we need to do to achieve those four objectives,

What did Hefin David AM concern about the fee and access plans

To answer Hefin David AM's question, Kirsty Williams AM first stressed that the success of the fee and access plan relied on the understanding of whether an annual basis was an appropriate timescale for a university to be working to, and whether a long period was suitable for the Act. Sometimes it was hard to make a final judgment since the futures of the students were unpredictable but the fee and access plans could always be one of the drivers for some of the improvements. In the meantime, constant efforts had been put into communications with a range of stakeholders to continue developing legislative proposals to assure the fee.

be empowered to enable that to happen through its regulatory and funding powers. Of course, the funding situation has shifted again now because of the introduction of what is commonly known as the Diamond reforms, but our new system of student finance does again shift the parameters of influence that HEFCW or any new tertiary commission could have. But, as I said earlier, it's not to say that institutions have had a free reign. We have been able to use the remit letter and our relationship with HEFCW to progress agendas that we would want to see. So, for instance, you'll be aware, in my remit letter, I am concerned about issues around how people working in the sector are paid. We've been able to successfully see all institutions sign up to becoming living wage employers, all institutions sign up to the Welsh Government's code of ethical procurement. So, it's not to say that the Act has meant that we've had no influence, but there are opportunities now, because of the change in financial circumstances once again, to look at that in any forthcoming legislation.Janet Finch-Saunders AM: Thank you, Minister. Do you share HEFCW's views on the benefits of having national targets to get institutions to address national priorities Is this something you wish you could doKirsty Williams AM: Well, it's not something I wish I could do; I think that we're doing it. Self-praise is no recommendation, but, because of the working relationship that we have, I think we're seeing some success in using the remit letter to influence national outcomes. So, I've just talked about living wage; we're also using our remit letter to drive transparency over senior leaders'pay, the gender pay gap within institutions. For instance, as part of this Government's commitment to improving mental health, we've were to do that because a university was breaking fee limits or because there were real questions about the quality of the provision or whether a university was not complying with the financial management code--personally, I wouldn't describe those as minor matters, as a Minister, if we had an institution that was significantly falling down on quality and HEFCW were using these powers to intervene. I wouldn't describe that as a minor matter.Dawn Bowden AM: No. That's fair enough. And, actually, on that point, we've had some recent high-profile issues in Swansea and Trinity St David, and HEFCW still haven't yet used their powers of intervention. Do you find that surprisingKirsty Williams AM: I think what they have done in these circumstances is, perhaps, used their ability to support those institutions through what, undoubtedly, have been challenging times. Given the fact that there are ongoing legal processes attached to Swansea University, I think it would not be appropriate for me to comment any further, because there are still matters in train with regard to that institution. But clearly, our expectation on HEFCW is to ensure that they are using their powers to support those universities, and I would expect them, if they felt necessary, to use the full remit of their powers if they felt that that was what they needed to do. Now, I have to trust their professional judgment that that has not been necessary to date, but our expectation is that they would do that if they felt it was necessary.Dawn Bowden AM: Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Chair.Lynne Neagle AM: Hefin David has some questions now on fee and access plans.Hefin David AM: Are you concerned that neither the regulator nor the sector seem to have any confidence in fee and access plansKirsty Williams AM: I think the concept of a fee and access plan is an important concept. Whether we can do them better, whether we can reflect on what's happened to date and create a better system of what's included in a fee and access plan and how those fee and access plans can be monitored, there's an opportunity to do that in forthcoming legislation.Hefin David AM: So, have you been aware of specific issues yourself Have they brought them to youKirsty Williams AM: Well, no, not in the sense that they've brought them to me to talk about specifically. From my perspective, fee and access plans are focused very much on inputs, and, really, I'd like to think about outputs and outcomes, more importantly--what are the outcomes of the fee and access plan, not necessarily just how much money has been spent on them. I think, certainly, to really understand the success of the fee and access plan, you have to question whether an annual basis is an appropriate timescale for a university to be working to, and whether we could have something that was focused over a longer period of time. Because, when you think about it, you write the plan and then you're into it, and then, the next thing you know, you're writing your next year's plan. So, I think there's an opportunity there to look to restructure. So, do I see a place for fee and access plans going forward, as part of our outcome agreements Yes, I do. Can we do them differently to make them more effective Yes, I think we can.Hefin David AM: So, why would introducing outcome agreements make them work any betterKirsty Williams AM: Well, I think they're going to be a part of an outcome agreement--part of that wider expectation. So, fee and been able to use the remit letter and some funding to be able to drive change and some improvements in mental health in the higher education sector. These are national priorities and we're acting upon them and we're using the multiple levers we have at the moment to engage in universities. And, I have to say, universities have risen to that challenge, and I'm very grateful to them for doing that.Janet Finch-Saunders AM: Thank you. Are there plans to give the proposed new PCET funding body more effective policy levers to align the sector to the social, economic and civic needs of Wales And, if so, how will this be doneKirsty Williams AM: Well, as I said in answer earlier, I'm determined that we ensure a sense of civic mission for the entirety of the sector, including our institutes of higher education. You'll be aware, Janet, that, in the consultation exercises that have been undertaken by the Government so far on PCET reform, we will be introducing more formal outcome agreements, whereby institutions might be given by the commission very clear expectations of how they're expected to contribute to national priorities.Janet Finch-Saunders AM: Thanks. We've heard that the HE Act, by focusing on individual institutions, did not encourage collaboration, even for widening access activity. Was this a missed opportunity and how will this be taken forward in the PCET BillKirsty Williams AM: I think we can strengthen our sector by closer collaboration. I think what sets us apart in Wales is that this Government is determined to create a legislative regime and a regulation regime that encourages collaboration and co-operation, which is in stark contrast to the marketisation and the competition that we see being regulated for and legislated for across the border in England. That's one of the reasons access plans are there to address an issue around, primarily, changing the nature of people who go to university and making sure that nobody is put off from pursuing that. So, that's part of a wider piece of work that I'd want to see as an outcome agreement. But, as I said, I think looking at outcomes for students and outcomes of that activity, rather than the inputs of the activity, over a longer period of time, is probably a more effective way of doing it. I think it's still--. In a way, it's difficult to make a final judgment on whether fee and access plans in their current format have worked, because we need to know what'll happen to those students in the future. But undoubtedly, despite the limitations of them, I do think we're making progress in terms of access, but I don't think we can necessarily point to the fee and access plans as being the driver for some of those improvements.Hefin David AM: No, I appreciate that, and some of the things you're saying reflect some of the discussions we've had, but what was clear is that the process and bureaucratic nature of the way you present fee and access plans doesn't work, particularly given the fact that, four years on, early fee and access plans are still being evaluated. There's a real problem there. So, what you're saying--can I just pin down what you're saying--is that we may be moving away from yearly fee and access plans to something that's longer term and outcome focused.Kirsty Williams AM: That's my preference. So, I think the principle--I'd like to think we can all agree around the principle of what a fee and access plan is hoping to achieve, but I think there are better ways of doing

How did Kirsty Williams AM plan to manage risks

Hefin David AM questioned about the right balance between institutions with the strongest track records that were more highly regulated and those riskier private alternative providers. Kirsty Williams AM argued that more attention should be paid to focus on the inherent quality of those charitable status which was regarded as a key reference point in the operation. Although there were some concerns of some private providers, particularly in England, they should not be treated the same. In this case, the government would regulate them on a course-by-course basis. Moreover, quality provision should be included and alternative providers would be given more attention.

be empowered to enable that to happen through its regulatory and funding powers. Of course, the funding situation has shifted again now because of the introduction of what is commonly known as the Diamond reforms, but our new system of student finance does again shift the parameters of influence that HEFCW or any new tertiary commission could have. But, as I said earlier, it's not to say that institutions have had a free reign. We have been able to use the remit letter and our relationship with HEFCW to progress agendas that we would want to see. So, for instance, you'll be aware, in my remit letter, I am concerned about issues around how people working in the sector are paid. We've been able to successfully see all institutions sign up to becoming living wage employers, all institutions sign up to the Welsh Government's code of ethical procurement. So, it's not to say that the Act has meant that we've had no influence, but there are opportunities now, because of the change in financial circumstances once again, to look at that in any forthcoming legislation.Janet Finch-Saunders AM: Thank you, Minister. Do you share HEFCW's views on the benefits of having national targets to get institutions to address national priorities Is this something you wish you could doKirsty Williams AM: Well, it's not something I wish I could do; I think that we're doing it. Self-praise is no recommendation, but, because of the working relationship that we have, I think we're seeing some success in using the remit letter to influence national outcomes. So, I've just talked about living wage; we're also using our remit letter to drive transparency over senior leaders'pay, the gender pay gap within institutions. For instance, as part of this Government's commitment to improving mental health, we've were to do that because a university was breaking fee limits or because there were real questions about the quality of the provision or whether a university was not complying with the financial management code--personally, I wouldn't describe those as minor matters, as a Minister, if we had an institution that was significantly falling down on quality and HEFCW were using these powers to intervene. I wouldn't describe that as a minor matter.Dawn Bowden AM: No. That's fair enough. And, actually, on that point, we've had some recent high-profile issues in Swansea and Trinity St David, and HEFCW still haven't yet used their powers of intervention. Do you find that surprisingKirsty Williams AM: I think what they have done in these circumstances is, perhaps, used their ability to support those institutions through what, undoubtedly, have been challenging times. Given the fact that there are ongoing legal processes attached to Swansea University, I think it would not be appropriate for me to comment any further, because there are still matters in train with regard to that institution. But clearly, our expectation on HEFCW is to ensure that they are using their powers to support those universities, and I would expect them, if they felt necessary, to use the full remit of their powers if they felt that that was what they needed to do. Now, I have to trust their professional judgment that that has not been necessary to date, but our expectation is that they would do that if they felt it was necessary.Dawn Bowden AM: Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Chair.Lynne Neagle AM: Hefin David has some questions now on fee and access plans.Hefin David AM: Are you concerned that neither the regulator nor the sector seem to have any confidence in fee and access plansKirsty Williams AM: I Lynne Neagle AM: Good morning, everyone. Welcome to the Children, Young People and Education Committee. We've received apologies for absence from Suzy Davies and there is no substitute. Janet Finch-Saunders is joining us from the Assembly offices in Colwyn Bay via video conference. Can I ask Members if there are any declarations of interest, please No. Okay. Item 2, then, this morning is a post-legislative scrutiny session on the Higher Education (Wales) Act 2015. I'm very pleased to welcome Kirsty Williams AM, Minister for Education, and Huw Morris, who is director of the skills, higher education and lifelong learning group in Welsh Government. Thank you, both, for attending, and thank you for the paper that you provided in advance. I will just start the questioning by asking whether you are planning to repeal the 2015 higher education Act, or will it be amended by the post-compulsory education and training BillKirsty Williams AM: Thank you very much, Chair. I'm very pleased to be with the committee again this morning, although it's in slightly unusual circumstances. As a piece of post-legislative scrutiny, this was a Bill that was taken forward by a different Minister in a different administration, but I think it is really valuable work in the context of the question you just set out: what can we learn from the implementation of this piece of legislation as we move forward with our reform journey and with this Government and my proposals to introduce a new commission for tertiary education There is much, at the moment, that lies within the 2015 Act that we will look to bring forward into the new legislation, but there are certainly experiences--and I'm sure we'll come on to some of the evidence that has been received about what's worked, what perhaps hasn't worked--that we all available by the Welsh Government. So, I think we are, at this moment, relaxed about that, and there are some difficulties around deciding and introducing fee limits on postgraduate courses. I think what's really important to me is the success at the moment of attracting people to postgraduate and part-time study in Wales, as a result of our reforms to student finance. But, clearly, we'll need to keep that under review. But, at this current moment, the Act precludes fee regulation in some areas and there's not a pressing policy need that we've identified to date.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay. Thank you. Okay, we're going to move on now to some questions about the level of ambition in the higher education Act and any lessons for the PCET Bill, from Janet Finch-Saunders.Janet Finch-Saunders AM: Thank you. To what extent has the 2012 university funding system limited Welsh Government's policy leverage over the sector, and how has the HE Act addressed this beyond the levers offered by fee and access plansKirsty Williams AM: Of course, the Act was introduced as a direct result of the changing scenario around finance and the different ways in which, because of the reduction in HEFCW's budget, the level of influence that HEFCW would be able to exert over institutions through the imposition of terms and conditions of funding--. So, the Act was introduced in part to address that shift in influence and the Act also has provided HEFCW with a range of new powers of intervention and sanctions in the case of non-compliance by institutions. Personally, I wholeheartedly believe that tertiary education providers should contribute to national goals and outcomes as part of what I'd describe as a civic mission. I'm determined that any legislation that I bring forward and any commission that I establish will been able to use the remit letter and some funding to be able to drive change and some improvements in mental health in the higher education sector. These are national priorities and we're acting upon them and we're using the multiple levers we have at the moment to engage in universities. And, I have to say, universities have risen to that challenge, and I'm very grateful to them for doing that.Janet Finch-Saunders AM: Thank you. Are there plans to give the proposed new PCET funding body more effective policy levers to align the sector to the social, economic and civic needs of Wales And, if so, how will this be doneKirsty Williams AM: Well, as I said in answer earlier, I'm determined that we ensure a sense of civic mission for the entirety of the sector, including our institutes of higher education. You'll be aware, Janet, that, in the consultation exercises that have been undertaken by the Government so far on PCET reform, we will be introducing more formal outcome agreements, whereby institutions might be given by the commission very clear expectations of how they're expected to contribute to national priorities.Janet Finch-Saunders AM: Thanks. We've heard that the HE Act, by focusing on individual institutions, did not encourage collaboration, even for widening access activity. Was this a missed opportunity and how will this be taken forward in the PCET BillKirsty Williams AM: I think we can strengthen our sector by closer collaboration. I think what sets us apart in Wales is that this Government is determined to create a legislative regime and a regulation regime that encourages collaboration and co-operation, which is in stark contrast to the marketisation and the competition that we see being regulated for and legislated for across the border in England. That's one of the reasons

What did Kirsty Williams AM react in response to concerns of the governance of universities

Kirsty Williams AM first admitted that it was true that the Bill did not directly address issues around governance in the sector. However, establishing a more direct relationship with chairs of universities, especially one-to-one relationships with them, had been attached much importance and it was crucial to help the government understand each aspect of issues in universities. Moreover, ways to make sure that the governing bodies were diverse and it was able to include both student voice as well as the staff voice in governance going forward would be discussed in the future. Kirsty Williams AM stressed that there were plans to engage with each of the governing bodies since the situation was getting far more complex.

be empowered to enable that to happen through its regulatory and funding powers. Of course, the funding situation has shifted again now because of the introduction of what is commonly known as the Diamond reforms, but our new system of student finance does again shift the parameters of influence that HEFCW or any new tertiary commission could have. But, as I said earlier, it's not to say that institutions have had a free reign. We have been able to use the remit letter and our relationship with HEFCW to progress agendas that we would want to see. So, for instance, you'll be aware, in my remit letter, I am concerned about issues around how people working in the sector are paid. We've been able to successfully see all institutions sign up to becoming living wage employers, all institutions sign up to the Welsh Government's code of ethical procurement. So, it's not to say that the Act has meant that we've had no influence, but there are opportunities now, because of the change in financial circumstances once again, to look at that in any forthcoming legislation.Janet Finch-Saunders AM: Thank you, Minister. Do you share HEFCW's views on the benefits of having national targets to get institutions to address national priorities Is this something you wish you could doKirsty Williams AM: Well, it's not something I wish I could do; I think that we're doing it. Self-praise is no recommendation, but, because of the working relationship that we have, I think we're seeing some success in using the remit letter to influence national outcomes. So, I've just talked about living wage; we're also using our remit letter to drive transparency over senior leaders'pay, the gender pay gap within institutions. For instance, as part of this Government's commitment to improving mental health, we've were to do that because a university was breaking fee limits or because there were real questions about the quality of the provision or whether a university was not complying with the financial management code--personally, I wouldn't describe those as minor matters, as a Minister, if we had an institution that was significantly falling down on quality and HEFCW were using these powers to intervene. I wouldn't describe that as a minor matter.Dawn Bowden AM: No. That's fair enough. And, actually, on that point, we've had some recent high-profile issues in Swansea and Trinity St David, and HEFCW still haven't yet used their powers of intervention. Do you find that surprisingKirsty Williams AM: I think what they have done in these circumstances is, perhaps, used their ability to support those institutions through what, undoubtedly, have been challenging times. Given the fact that there are ongoing legal processes attached to Swansea University, I think it would not be appropriate for me to comment any further, because there are still matters in train with regard to that institution. But clearly, our expectation on HEFCW is to ensure that they are using their powers to support those universities, and I would expect them, if they felt necessary, to use the full remit of their powers if they felt that that was what they needed to do. Now, I have to trust their professional judgment that that has not been necessary to date, but our expectation is that they would do that if they felt it was necessary.Dawn Bowden AM: Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Chair.Lynne Neagle AM: Hefin David has some questions now on fee and access plans.Hefin David AM: Are you concerned that neither the regulator nor the sector seem to have any confidence in fee and access plansKirsty Williams AM: I process--and wanting to make sure that the Bill that's laid next year hasn't been discussed with anybody else before it comes to be considered by the Senedd. So, the broad principles have been discussed, but specific details of what goes into a Bill or policy instructions that inform a Bill haven't been the subject of consultation--Hefin David AM: Because that happens at Stage 1.Huw Morris: Indeed, yes.Hefin David AM: Okay. Sorry, can I move on to the next itemLynne Neagle AM: Oh, you're going on to the next section.Hefin David AM: Yes, unless there's anything specific--Lynne Neagle AM: Yes, I just wanted to clarify, if we're moving to a longer term approach to this, how will the new body be able to establish that things are actually working, that the powers are working, if we're working on a five-year time frameKirsty Williams AM: As we've heard, we can't really properly assess fee and access plans in the current arrangements, because it takes time for those cohorts of students to go through and activities to go through. Being able to move to a system where fee and access plans, for instance, could be over a three-year period I think allows universities to be more strategic in some of their investments and some of their activities around fee and access. In a single-year plan, it's almost knee-jerk, it's the need to demonstrate that you're doing something, and doing that within that period of time, rather than a more strategic view--. Can I just say, I know it's not quite subject to this, but we're really moving forward in terms of access and broadening access into the HE sector. For me, student financial support is one aspect of it, but if we're really thinking about social mobility and attracting people into higher education been able to use the remit letter and some funding to be able to drive change and some improvements in mental health in the higher education sector. These are national priorities and we're acting upon them and we're using the multiple levers we have at the moment to engage in universities. And, I have to say, universities have risen to that challenge, and I'm very grateful to them for doing that.Janet Finch-Saunders AM: Thank you. Are there plans to give the proposed new PCET funding body more effective policy levers to align the sector to the social, economic and civic needs of Wales And, if so, how will this be doneKirsty Williams AM: Well, as I said in answer earlier, I'm determined that we ensure a sense of civic mission for the entirety of the sector, including our institutes of higher education. You'll be aware, Janet, that, in the consultation exercises that have been undertaken by the Government so far on PCET reform, we will be introducing more formal outcome agreements, whereby institutions might be given by the commission very clear expectations of how they're expected to contribute to national priorities.Janet Finch-Saunders AM: Thanks. We've heard that the HE Act, by focusing on individual institutions, did not encourage collaboration, even for widening access activity. Was this a missed opportunity and how will this be taken forward in the PCET BillKirsty Williams AM: I think we can strengthen our sector by closer collaboration. I think what sets us apart in Wales is that this Government is determined to create a legislative regime and a regulation regime that encourages collaboration and co-operation, which is in stark contrast to the marketisation and the competition that we see being regulated for and legislated for across the border in England. That's one of the reasons Lynne Neagle AM: Good morning, everyone. Welcome to the Children, Young People and Education Committee. We've received apologies for absence from Suzy Davies and there is no substitute. Janet Finch-Saunders is joining us from the Assembly offices in Colwyn Bay via video conference. Can I ask Members if there are any declarations of interest, please No. Okay. Item 2, then, this morning is a post-legislative scrutiny session on the Higher Education (Wales) Act 2015. I'm very pleased to welcome Kirsty Williams AM, Minister for Education, and Huw Morris, who is director of the skills, higher education and lifelong learning group in Welsh Government. Thank you, both, for attending, and thank you for the paper that you provided in advance. I will just start the questioning by asking whether you are planning to repeal the 2015 higher education Act, or will it be amended by the post-compulsory education and training BillKirsty Williams AM: Thank you very much, Chair. I'm very pleased to be with the committee again this morning, although it's in slightly unusual circumstances. As a piece of post-legislative scrutiny, this was a Bill that was taken forward by a different Minister in a different administration, but I think it is really valuable work in the context of the question you just set out: what can we learn from the implementation of this piece of legislation as we move forward with our reform journey and with this Government and my proposals to introduce a new commission for tertiary education There is much, at the moment, that lies within the 2015 Act that we will look to bring forward into the new legislation, but there are certainly experiences--and I'm sure we'll come on to some of the evidence that has been received about what's worked, what perhaps hasn't worked--that we all

How did Sian Gwenllian AM ask about the quality assurance

Sian Gwenllian AM argued that there was evidence regarding the difficulties caused by HEFCW having a legal duty to quality-assure all the provisions in two further education colleges. This process was regarded as an anomaly or an unintended consequence of the Act. Sian Gwenllian AM wanted Kirsty Williams AM to explain the situation in that instance and further methods to assure governing qualities.

were to do that because a university was breaking fee limits or because there were real questions about the quality of the provision or whether a university was not complying with the financial management code--personally, I wouldn't describe those as minor matters, as a Minister, if we had an institution that was significantly falling down on quality and HEFCW were using these powers to intervene. I wouldn't describe that as a minor matter.Dawn Bowden AM: No. That's fair enough. And, actually, on that point, we've had some recent high-profile issues in Swansea and Trinity St David, and HEFCW still haven't yet used their powers of intervention. Do you find that surprisingKirsty Williams AM: I think what they have done in these circumstances is, perhaps, used their ability to support those institutions through what, undoubtedly, have been challenging times. Given the fact that there are ongoing legal processes attached to Swansea University, I think it would not be appropriate for me to comment any further, because there are still matters in train with regard to that institution. But clearly, our expectation on HEFCW is to ensure that they are using their powers to support those universities, and I would expect them, if they felt necessary, to use the full remit of their powers if they felt that that was what they needed to do. Now, I have to trust their professional judgment that that has not been necessary to date, but our expectation is that they would do that if they felt it was necessary.Dawn Bowden AM: Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Chair.Lynne Neagle AM: Hefin David has some questions now on fee and access plans.Hefin David AM: Are you concerned that neither the regulator nor the sector seem to have any confidence in fee and access plansKirsty Williams AM: I been able to use the remit letter and some funding to be able to drive change and some improvements in mental health in the higher education sector. These are national priorities and we're acting upon them and we're using the multiple levers we have at the moment to engage in universities. And, I have to say, universities have risen to that challenge, and I'm very grateful to them for doing that.Janet Finch-Saunders AM: Thank you. Are there plans to give the proposed new PCET funding body more effective policy levers to align the sector to the social, economic and civic needs of Wales And, if so, how will this be doneKirsty Williams AM: Well, as I said in answer earlier, I'm determined that we ensure a sense of civic mission for the entirety of the sector, including our institutes of higher education. You'll be aware, Janet, that, in the consultation exercises that have been undertaken by the Government so far on PCET reform, we will be introducing more formal outcome agreements, whereby institutions might be given by the commission very clear expectations of how they're expected to contribute to national priorities.Janet Finch-Saunders AM: Thanks. We've heard that the HE Act, by focusing on individual institutions, did not encourage collaboration, even for widening access activity. Was this a missed opportunity and how will this be taken forward in the PCET BillKirsty Williams AM: I think we can strengthen our sector by closer collaboration. I think what sets us apart in Wales is that this Government is determined to create a legislative regime and a regulation regime that encourages collaboration and co-operation, which is in stark contrast to the marketisation and the competition that we see being regulated for and legislated for across the border in England. That's one of the reasons Lynne Neagle AM: Good morning, everyone. Welcome to the Children, Young People and Education Committee. We've received apologies for absence from Suzy Davies and there is no substitute. Janet Finch-Saunders is joining us from the Assembly offices in Colwyn Bay via video conference. Can I ask Members if there are any declarations of interest, please No. Okay. Item 2, then, this morning is a post-legislative scrutiny session on the Higher Education (Wales) Act 2015. I'm very pleased to welcome Kirsty Williams AM, Minister for Education, and Huw Morris, who is director of the skills, higher education and lifelong learning group in Welsh Government. Thank you, both, for attending, and thank you for the paper that you provided in advance. I will just start the questioning by asking whether you are planning to repeal the 2015 higher education Act, or will it be amended by the post-compulsory education and training BillKirsty Williams AM: Thank you very much, Chair. I'm very pleased to be with the committee again this morning, although it's in slightly unusual circumstances. As a piece of post-legislative scrutiny, this was a Bill that was taken forward by a different Minister in a different administration, but I think it is really valuable work in the context of the question you just set out: what can we learn from the implementation of this piece of legislation as we move forward with our reform journey and with this Government and my proposals to introduce a new commission for tertiary education There is much, at the moment, that lies within the 2015 Act that we will look to bring forward into the new legislation, but there are certainly experiences--and I'm sure we'll come on to some of the evidence that has been received about what's worked, what perhaps hasn't worked--that we all process--and wanting to make sure that the Bill that's laid next year hasn't been discussed with anybody else before it comes to be considered by the Senedd. So, the broad principles have been discussed, but specific details of what goes into a Bill or policy instructions that inform a Bill haven't been the subject of consultation--Hefin David AM: Because that happens at Stage 1.Huw Morris: Indeed, yes.Hefin David AM: Okay. Sorry, can I move on to the next itemLynne Neagle AM: Oh, you're going on to the next section.Hefin David AM: Yes, unless there's anything specific--Lynne Neagle AM: Yes, I just wanted to clarify, if we're moving to a longer term approach to this, how will the new body be able to establish that things are actually working, that the powers are working, if we're working on a five-year time frameKirsty Williams AM: As we've heard, we can't really properly assess fee and access plans in the current arrangements, because it takes time for those cohorts of students to go through and activities to go through. Being able to move to a system where fee and access plans, for instance, could be over a three-year period I think allows universities to be more strategic in some of their investments and some of their activities around fee and access. In a single-year plan, it's almost knee-jerk, it's the need to demonstrate that you're doing something, and doing that within that period of time, rather than a more strategic view--. Can I just say, I know it's not quite subject to this, but we're really moving forward in terms of access and broadening access into the HE sector. For me, student financial support is one aspect of it, but if we're really thinking about social mobility and attracting people into higher education it, and I think we should take the opportunity of reform to look at how we can do it better.Hefin David AM: So, with that in mind, I think we're talking about the future of the Bill, the consultation on the PCET reforms closed in summer 2018--with these important issues in mind and things that are currently ongoing, have you had further dialogue since then with key stakeholders like, for example, Universities Wales and othersKirsty Williams AM: On the Bill or on fee and access plans in particularHefin David AM: I'm thinking about fee and access plans as an issue that suggests that there is a need for deep consultation, so with that in mind, with things like that, have you had further discussionKirsty Williams AM: Oh my goodness me, civil servants in the department are constantly in discussion with a range of stakeholders as we continue to develop legislative proposals. I meet on a regular basis with both HEFCW--I meet separately with the vice-chancellors, and I've been very keen to develop a stronger working relationship with chairs, and perhaps we'll come on to issues of governance later. So, we are constantly discussing with stakeholders all options for change--Hefin David AM: I suppose the message I'm getting as chair of the cross-party group on higher education is that there could still be more direct consultation with stakeholders. That's the message I've received. Now, I've got no evidence to say it has or hasn't happened, but that's the message I've received.Huw Morris: If I could just chip in for a moment, the Minister's outlined that there is very extensive, ongoing communication both ways with the sector, but the challenge of preparing a Bill is the balancing act between gathering in information--and there's been a general consultation process and a technical consultation

How did Kirsty Williams AM answer Sian Gwenllian AM's question about quality assurance

Kirsty Williams AM first explained that it was a bit difficult to put herself in the position of the former Minister but it was clear that it should not be intended. However, she explained that the Act was built on what were the quality assessment arrangements in the 1992 Act, which required HEFCW to secure arrangements for the assessment of the quality of education provided by funding institutions. So, as a consequence of that approach, HEFCW's quality assessment duty currently encompassesed all the education provided by or on behalf of a regulated institution. Huw Morris also helped to explain that a lot of joint operation was required during the process and the new Bill would try to make that clearer.

think the concept of a fee and access plan is an important concept. Whether we can do them better, whether we can reflect on what's happened to date and create a better system of what's included in a fee and access plan and how those fee and access plans can be monitored, there's an opportunity to do that in forthcoming legislation.Hefin David AM: So, have you been aware of specific issues yourself Have they brought them to youKirsty Williams AM: Well, no, not in the sense that they've brought them to me to talk about specifically. From my perspective, fee and access plans are focused very much on inputs, and, really, I'd like to think about outputs and outcomes, more importantly--what are the outcomes of the fee and access plan, not necessarily just how much money has been spent on them. I think, certainly, to really understand the success of the fee and access plan, you have to question whether an annual basis is an appropriate timescale for a university to be working to, and whether we could have something that was focused over a longer period of time. Because, when you think about it, you write the plan and then you're into it, and then, the next thing you know, you're writing your next year's plan. So, I think there's an opportunity there to look to restructure. So, do I see a place for fee and access plans going forward, as part of our outcome agreements Yes, I do. Can we do them differently to make them more effective Yes, I think we can.Hefin David AM: So, why would introducing outcome agreements make them work any betterKirsty Williams AM: Well, I think they're going to be a part of an outcome agreement--part of that wider expectation. So, fee and were to do that because a university was breaking fee limits or because there were real questions about the quality of the provision or whether a university was not complying with the financial management code--personally, I wouldn't describe those as minor matters, as a Minister, if we had an institution that was significantly falling down on quality and HEFCW were using these powers to intervene. I wouldn't describe that as a minor matter.Dawn Bowden AM: No. That's fair enough. And, actually, on that point, we've had some recent high-profile issues in Swansea and Trinity St David, and HEFCW still haven't yet used their powers of intervention. Do you find that surprisingKirsty Williams AM: I think what they have done in these circumstances is, perhaps, used their ability to support those institutions through what, undoubtedly, have been challenging times. Given the fact that there are ongoing legal processes attached to Swansea University, I think it would not be appropriate for me to comment any further, because there are still matters in train with regard to that institution. But clearly, our expectation on HEFCW is to ensure that they are using their powers to support those universities, and I would expect them, if they felt necessary, to use the full remit of their powers if they felt that that was what they needed to do. Now, I have to trust their professional judgment that that has not been necessary to date, but our expectation is that they would do that if they felt it was necessary.Dawn Bowden AM: Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Chair.Lynne Neagle AM: Hefin David has some questions now on fee and access plans.Hefin David AM: Are you concerned that neither the regulator nor the sector seem to have any confidence in fee and access plansKirsty Williams AM: I been able to use the remit letter and some funding to be able to drive change and some improvements in mental health in the higher education sector. These are national priorities and we're acting upon them and we're using the multiple levers we have at the moment to engage in universities. And, I have to say, universities have risen to that challenge, and I'm very grateful to them for doing that.Janet Finch-Saunders AM: Thank you. Are there plans to give the proposed new PCET funding body more effective policy levers to align the sector to the social, economic and civic needs of Wales And, if so, how will this be doneKirsty Williams AM: Well, as I said in answer earlier, I'm determined that we ensure a sense of civic mission for the entirety of the sector, including our institutes of higher education. You'll be aware, Janet, that, in the consultation exercises that have been undertaken by the Government so far on PCET reform, we will be introducing more formal outcome agreements, whereby institutions might be given by the commission very clear expectations of how they're expected to contribute to national priorities.Janet Finch-Saunders AM: Thanks. We've heard that the HE Act, by focusing on individual institutions, did not encourage collaboration, even for widening access activity. Was this a missed opportunity and how will this be taken forward in the PCET BillKirsty Williams AM: I think we can strengthen our sector by closer collaboration. I think what sets us apart in Wales is that this Government is determined to create a legislative regime and a regulation regime that encourages collaboration and co-operation, which is in stark contrast to the marketisation and the competition that we see being regulated for and legislated for across the border in England. That's one of the reasons want to reflect on and be mindful of as we take forward the new Bill, including the report of this committee as part of it. So, it is our intention that this Bill will be superceded by the new PCETR Bill.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay, thank you. We've got a series of questions now from Sian Gwenllian.Sian Gwenllian AM: Good morning. Do you believe that the Act has fulfilled all the Government's objectives Where are the weaknessesKirsty Williams AM: Diolch yn fawr, Sian. As I've said, it's a bit difficult to place myself in the mind of the previous Minister when this legislation was first envisaged and then taken through. You'll be aware that there were four main reasons for the introduction of the Bill: around regulation of institutions in Wales; safeguarding the contribution made to public good arising from Welsh Government's financial support for the sector; maintaining a focus on fair access; and preserving and protecting the principle of institutional autonomy. I think the evidence that has been received by the committee to date shows that there are different views about the effectiveness of whether all four strategic aims have been achieved. I think those strategic aims are still really, really important and certainly will underpin our thought process going forward, but we have to recognise the higher education and research Bill across the border in England, the implementation of new student support measures in Wales, as well as the report that was done by Ellen Hazelkorn, I think, means it is appropriate that we move forward with different proposals, not just regulation of the HE sector but the post-compulsory sector as a whole. We will look to see what we can do to strengthen or whether there is more that we need to do to achieve those four objectives, Lynne Neagle AM: Good morning, everyone. Welcome to the Children, Young People and Education Committee. We've received apologies for absence from Suzy Davies and there is no substitute. Janet Finch-Saunders is joining us from the Assembly offices in Colwyn Bay via video conference. Can I ask Members if there are any declarations of interest, please No. Okay. Item 2, then, this morning is a post-legislative scrutiny session on the Higher Education (Wales) Act 2015. I'm very pleased to welcome Kirsty Williams AM, Minister for Education, and Huw Morris, who is director of the skills, higher education and lifelong learning group in Welsh Government. Thank you, both, for attending, and thank you for the paper that you provided in advance. I will just start the questioning by asking whether you are planning to repeal the 2015 higher education Act, or will it be amended by the post-compulsory education and training BillKirsty Williams AM: Thank you very much, Chair. I'm very pleased to be with the committee again this morning, although it's in slightly unusual circumstances. As a piece of post-legislative scrutiny, this was a Bill that was taken forward by a different Minister in a different administration, but I think it is really valuable work in the context of the question you just set out: what can we learn from the implementation of this piece of legislation as we move forward with our reform journey and with this Government and my proposals to introduce a new commission for tertiary education There is much, at the moment, that lies within the 2015 Act that we will look to bring forward into the new legislation, but there are certainly experiences--and I'm sure we'll come on to some of the evidence that has been received about what's worked, what perhaps hasn't worked--that we all

What did Kirsty Williams AM say about her plan for quality assurance

Kirsty Williams AM shared that the government had listened to stakeholders'concerns regarding proposals to introduce a single quality assessment body. And she stressed that the principles underlying any assurance regime would need to be coherent, effective and comprehensive. Besides, the quality framework should cover higher education to make it compatible with ENQA, which was considered as highly important going forward, since it would be compatible with current UK-wide baseline standards to avoid specific problems for the HE sector in Wales. Although it might cause a stir, a change must be made in the new situation. Huw Morris also suggested that greater synergy would be encouraged in the ways in which quality assurance and enhancement was undertaken in different areas of activity.

be empowered to enable that to happen through its regulatory and funding powers. Of course, the funding situation has shifted again now because of the introduction of what is commonly known as the Diamond reforms, but our new system of student finance does again shift the parameters of influence that HEFCW or any new tertiary commission could have. But, as I said earlier, it's not to say that institutions have had a free reign. We have been able to use the remit letter and our relationship with HEFCW to progress agendas that we would want to see. So, for instance, you'll be aware, in my remit letter, I am concerned about issues around how people working in the sector are paid. We've been able to successfully see all institutions sign up to becoming living wage employers, all institutions sign up to the Welsh Government's code of ethical procurement. So, it's not to say that the Act has meant that we've had no influence, but there are opportunities now, because of the change in financial circumstances once again, to look at that in any forthcoming legislation.Janet Finch-Saunders AM: Thank you, Minister. Do you share HEFCW's views on the benefits of having national targets to get institutions to address national priorities Is this something you wish you could doKirsty Williams AM: Well, it's not something I wish I could do; I think that we're doing it. Self-praise is no recommendation, but, because of the working relationship that we have, I think we're seeing some success in using the remit letter to influence national outcomes. So, I've just talked about living wage; we're also using our remit letter to drive transparency over senior leaders'pay, the gender pay gap within institutions. For instance, as part of this Government's commitment to improving mental health, we've think the concept of a fee and access plan is an important concept. Whether we can do them better, whether we can reflect on what's happened to date and create a better system of what's included in a fee and access plan and how those fee and access plans can be monitored, there's an opportunity to do that in forthcoming legislation.Hefin David AM: So, have you been aware of specific issues yourself Have they brought them to youKirsty Williams AM: Well, no, not in the sense that they've brought them to me to talk about specifically. From my perspective, fee and access plans are focused very much on inputs, and, really, I'd like to think about outputs and outcomes, more importantly--what are the outcomes of the fee and access plan, not necessarily just how much money has been spent on them. I think, certainly, to really understand the success of the fee and access plan, you have to question whether an annual basis is an appropriate timescale for a university to be working to, and whether we could have something that was focused over a longer period of time. Because, when you think about it, you write the plan and then you're into it, and then, the next thing you know, you're writing your next year's plan. So, I think there's an opportunity there to look to restructure. So, do I see a place for fee and access plans going forward, as part of our outcome agreements Yes, I do. Can we do them differently to make them more effective Yes, I think we can.Hefin David AM: So, why would introducing outcome agreements make them work any betterKirsty Williams AM: Well, I think they're going to be a part of an outcome agreement--part of that wider expectation. So, fee and were to do that because a university was breaking fee limits or because there were real questions about the quality of the provision or whether a university was not complying with the financial management code--personally, I wouldn't describe those as minor matters, as a Minister, if we had an institution that was significantly falling down on quality and HEFCW were using these powers to intervene. I wouldn't describe that as a minor matter.Dawn Bowden AM: No. That's fair enough. And, actually, on that point, we've had some recent high-profile issues in Swansea and Trinity St David, and HEFCW still haven't yet used their powers of intervention. Do you find that surprisingKirsty Williams AM: I think what they have done in these circumstances is, perhaps, used their ability to support those institutions through what, undoubtedly, have been challenging times. Given the fact that there are ongoing legal processes attached to Swansea University, I think it would not be appropriate for me to comment any further, because there are still matters in train with regard to that institution. But clearly, our expectation on HEFCW is to ensure that they are using their powers to support those universities, and I would expect them, if they felt necessary, to use the full remit of their powers if they felt that that was what they needed to do. Now, I have to trust their professional judgment that that has not been necessary to date, but our expectation is that they would do that if they felt it was necessary.Dawn Bowden AM: Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Chair.Lynne Neagle AM: Hefin David has some questions now on fee and access plans.Hefin David AM: Are you concerned that neither the regulator nor the sector seem to have any confidence in fee and access plansKirsty Williams AM: I access plans are there to address an issue around, primarily, changing the nature of people who go to university and making sure that nobody is put off from pursuing that. So, that's part of a wider piece of work that I'd want to see as an outcome agreement. But, as I said, I think looking at outcomes for students and outcomes of that activity, rather than the inputs of the activity, over a longer period of time, is probably a more effective way of doing it. I think it's still--. In a way, it's difficult to make a final judgment on whether fee and access plans in their current format have worked, because we need to know what'll happen to those students in the future. But undoubtedly, despite the limitations of them, I do think we're making progress in terms of access, but I don't think we can necessarily point to the fee and access plans as being the driver for some of those improvements.Hefin David AM: No, I appreciate that, and some of the things you're saying reflect some of the discussions we've had, but what was clear is that the process and bureaucratic nature of the way you present fee and access plans doesn't work, particularly given the fact that, four years on, early fee and access plans are still being evaluated. There's a real problem there. So, what you're saying--can I just pin down what you're saying--is that we may be moving away from yearly fee and access plans to something that's longer term and outcome focused.Kirsty Williams AM: That's my preference. So, I think the principle--I'd like to think we can all agree around the principle of what a fee and access plan is hoping to achieve, but I think there are better ways of doing process--and wanting to make sure that the Bill that's laid next year hasn't been discussed with anybody else before it comes to be considered by the Senedd. So, the broad principles have been discussed, but specific details of what goes into a Bill or policy instructions that inform a Bill haven't been the subject of consultation--Hefin David AM: Because that happens at Stage 1.Huw Morris: Indeed, yes.Hefin David AM: Okay. Sorry, can I move on to the next itemLynne Neagle AM: Oh, you're going on to the next section.Hefin David AM: Yes, unless there's anything specific--Lynne Neagle AM: Yes, I just wanted to clarify, if we're moving to a longer term approach to this, how will the new body be able to establish that things are actually working, that the powers are working, if we're working on a five-year time frameKirsty Williams AM: As we've heard, we can't really properly assess fee and access plans in the current arrangements, because it takes time for those cohorts of students to go through and activities to go through. Being able to move to a system where fee and access plans, for instance, could be over a three-year period I think allows universities to be more strategic in some of their investments and some of their activities around fee and access. In a single-year plan, it's almost knee-jerk, it's the need to demonstrate that you're doing something, and doing that within that period of time, rather than a more strategic view--. Can I just say, I know it's not quite subject to this, but we're really moving forward in terms of access and broadening access into the HE sector. For me, student financial support is one aspect of it, but if we're really thinking about social mobility and attracting people into higher education

Summarize the whole meeting.

The meeting between the Children, Young People and Education Committee and the Welsh Government was considered as a post-legislative scrutiny session on the Higher Education (Wales) Act 2015. To start with, Kirsty Williams AM suggested although the Bill was taken forward by a different Minister in a different administration, it was still valuable to discuss in the current context. The Act had partly fulfilled the Government's objectives in regulating institutions, safeguarding contribution, managing fair access and protecting the principle of institutional autonomy. Kirsty Williams AM also pointed out that new methods should be included to further regulate, co-ordinating and fund the sector. When it comes to the future of the Act, the meeting agreed that tertiary education providers should contribute to national goals and outcomes as part of the civic mission, and students'interests must be fully preserved. Meanwhile, some participants argued that HEFCW's powers were inflexible and fee plans from private providers were hard to regulate. Kirsty Williams AM agreed that a more flexible connection between the regulating sectors and the others should be attained. Besides, the meeting also talked about managing risk and agreed that the Act, in the future should include more alternative providers for students who were receiving long-term support. In the end, Kirsty Williams AM praised the contribution from overseas providers in supporting transnational education in Wales and agreed that rights of students in Wales should always be put in the first place.

was one small problem but it was a simple thing to fix. And then, um, {vocalsound} we, uh {disfmarker} I sent him a pointer to three more. And so he's {pause} off and {pause} working on those.Grad F: Yeah. Now we haven't actually had anyone go through that meeting, to see whether the transcript is correct and to see how much was missed and all that sort of stuff.Postdoc A: That's on my list.Grad F: So at some point we need to do that.PhD C: Yeah.Postdoc A: Well, that's on my list.PhD C: Yeah. It's gonna have to go through our regular process.Grad F: I mean, the one thing I noticed is it did miss a lot of backchannels. There are a fair number of" yeahs" and" uh - huhs" that {disfmarker} it's just {disfmarker} that aren't in there. So.Postdoc A: Hmm.Professor B: But I think {disfmarker} Yeah. Like you said, I mean, that's {disfmarker} that's gonna be our standard proc that's what the transcribers are gonna be spending most of their time doing, I would imagine,Postdoc A: Mm - hmm. Mm - hmm, mm - hmm.Professor B: once {disfmarker} once we {disfmarker}Grad F: Yes, absolutely. Yeah.Postdoc A: One question about the backchannels.Professor B: It's gonna {disfmarker}Postdoc A: Do you suppose that was because they weren't caught by the pre - segmenterGrad F: Yes, absolutely. Absolutely.Postdoc A: Oh, interesting. Oh, interesting. OK.Grad F: Yeah. They're {disfmarker} they're not in the segmented.Postdoc A: OK.Grad F: It's not that the {pause} IBM people didn't do it.Postdoc A: OK.Grad F: Just they didn't get marked.Postdoc A: OK. So maybe when the detector for that gets better or something {disfmarker} I w I {disfmarker} There's another issue which is this {disfmarker} we've been, uh, contacted by University of Washington now, of course, to, um Grad F: OK.PhD C: Adam, what is the mike that, uh, Jeremy's wearingGrad F: It's the ear - plug mike.Postdoc A: Ear - plug.PhD E: That's good.PhD C: Is that a wireless, or {disfmarker} Oh.Grad F: No.Grad G: It's wired.Professor B: Oh!Postdoc A: Is that {disfmarker} Does that mean you can't hear anything during the meetingGrad D: It's old - school.Grad F: Huh What HuhProfessor B: Should we, uh, close the door, maybeGrad F: It {disfmarker} it's a fairly good mike, actually.Professor B: So it's {disfmarker} Yeah. Huh.Grad F: Well, I shouldn't say it's a good mike. All I really know is that the signal level is OK. I don't know if it's a {disfmarker} the quality.Professor B: Well, that's aGrad F: Ugh! So I didn't send out agenda items because until five minutes ago we only had one agenda item and now we have two. So. {vocalsound} And, uh.Professor B: OK. So, just to repeat the thing bef that we said last week, it was there's this suggestion of alternating weeks on {vocalsound} more, uh, automatic speech recognition related or not Was that sort of {pause} the divisionGrad F: Right.Professor B: So which week are we inGrad F: Well {disfmarker} We haven't really started, but I thought we more {disfmarker} we more or less did Meeting Recorder stuff last week, so I thought we could do, uh {disfmarker}Professor B: I thought we had a thing about speech recognition last week too.PhD C: Yeah.Grad F: But I figure also if they're short agenda items, we could also do a little bit of each.Professor B: Yeah.Grad F: So. I seem to be having difficulty getting this adjusted. Here we go.Professor B: OK.Grad F: So, uh, as most of you should know, I did send out the consent form thingies and, uh, {disfmarker} We sent them the transcripts that correspond to those {pause} six meetings and they're downloading the audio files. So they'll be doing that. Chuck's {disfmarker} Chuck's, uh, put that in.PhD C: Mm - hmm. Yeah, I pointed them to the set that Andreas put, uh, on the {vocalsound} web so th if they want to compare directly with his results they can. And, um, then once, uh, th we can also point them at the, um, uh, the original meetings and they can grab those, too, with SCP.PhD E: Wait. So you put the reference files {disfmarker}PhD C: No, no. They d they wanted the audio.PhD E: Or the {disfmarker}PhD C: Jane sent them the, uh, transcripts.PhD E: No, I mean of the transcripts. Um. Well, we can talk about it off - line.PhD C: Mm - hmm.Grad F: There's another meeting in here, what, at four Right Yeah, so we have to finish by three forty - five.PhD H: D d So, does Washi - does {disfmarker} does UW wanna u do this {disfmarker} wanna use this data for recognition or for something elsePhD C: Uh, for recognition.PhD E: I think they're doing wPhD H: Oh.PhD E: didn't they want to do language modeling on, you know, recognition - compatible transcriptsPhD H: Oh. I see.Postdoc A: This is to show you, uh, some of the things that turn up during the checking procedure.Professor B: Yeah.PhD E: or {disfmarker}Postdoc A: Um @ @ {comment} So, this is from one of the NSA meetings and, uh, i if you're familiar with the diff format, the arrow to the left is what it was, and the arrow to the right is {pause} what it was changed to. So, um. {vocalsound} And now the first one." OK. So, then we started a that they've already signed once.Postdoc A: I don't remember that this issue of {pause} the time period allowed for response was ever covered.Grad F: Yeah.Professor B: Yeah. We never really talked about that.Grad F: OK.PhD E: Or the date at which they would be receiving the email from you.Postdoc A: Or {disfmarker} or how they would indicate {disfmarker}Professor B: Yeah.PhD E: They probably forgot all about it.Professor B: We certainly didn't talk, uh, about {disfmarker} with them at all about, uh, the manner of them being {disfmarker} {vocalsound} made the, uh, uh, materials available.PhD E: Yeah.PhD H: We do it like with these {disfmarker}Professor B: That was something that was sort of just within our implementation.Grad F: OK.PhD H: We can use it {disfmarker} we can use a {disfmarker} a ploy like they use to, um {disfmarker} you know, that when they serve, like {disfmarker} uh, uh, uh {disfmarker} {comment} uh, you know, like dead - beat dads, they {disfmarker} they {disfmarker} they make it look like they won something in the lottery and then they open the envelopeGrad D: And they're served.PhD H: and that {disfmarker} Right Because {disfmarker} and then the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the {disfmarker} the thing is served. So you just make it, you know," oh, you won {disfmarker} you know, go to this web site and you've, uh {disfmarker} you're {disfmarker}" PhD E: That's why you never open these things that come in the mail.Postdoc A: That one.Professor B: Yeah.Grad F: Well, it's just, we've gone from one extreme to the other, where at one point, a few months ago, Morgan was {disfmarker} you were saying let's not do anything,PhD H: Right. {vocalsound} Right. No, it I {disfmarker} it might {disfmarker}Postdoc A: Well, it doesn't matter.PhD H: i i it {disfmarker} it might well be the case {disfmarker}Grad F: and now we're {disfmarker} we're saying we have to follow up each person and get a signaturePhD H: it might {disfmarker} Right.Grad F: I mean, what are we gonna doing herePhD H: It might well be the case that {disfmarker} that this is perfectly {disfmarker} you know, this is enough to give us a basis t to just, eh, assume their consent if they don't reply.Professor B: Well.Grad F: Mm - hmm.PhD H: But, I'm not {disfmarker} you know, me not being a lawyer, I wouldn't just wanna do that without {pause} having the {disfmarker} the expert, uh, opinion on that.Postdoc A: And how many people Al - altogether we've got twenty people. These people are people who read their email almost all the time.Grad F: Then I think we had better find out, so that we can find a {disfmarker}PhD H: Yeah.Professor B: Let me look at this again.Grad F: Right.Postdoc A: I {disfmarker} I really don't see that it's a problem. I {disfmarker} I think that it's a common courtesy to ask them {disfmarker} uh, to expect for them to, uh, be able to have @ @ {comment} us try to contact them,Grad F: For {disfmarker} for thPostdoc A: u just in case they hadn't gotten their email. I think they'd appreciate it.Professor B: Yeah. My {disfmarker} Adam, my {disfmarker} my view before was about {pause} the nature of what was {disfmarker} of the presentation,Grad F: Mm - hmm.Professor B: of {disfmarker} of how {pause} my {disfmarker} my {disfmarker} the things that we're questioning were along the lines of how easy {disfmarker} uh, h how m how much implication would there be that it's likely you're going to be changing something, as opposed to {disfmarker}Grad F: Mm - hmm.Professor B: That was the kind

Summarize the discussion about releasing meeting data and allowing people to cut things out

The team decided to release their data on July 15th, but they still wanted to give people time to bleep things from the transcripts. There was skepticism that they could actually reach out to people and get everyone's consent that they were okay with whatever was being released.

most of the month. Right Because if someone {disfmarker}Professor B: It {disfmarker} well, it {disfmarker} well, you're right. Sometimes somebody will be {pause} away and, uh, you know, there's, uh {disfmarker} for any length of time that you {vocalsound} uh, choose {pause} there is some person sometime who will not {pause} end up reading it.Postdoc A: OK.Professor B: That's {disfmarker} it's, you know, just a certain risk to take.PhD H: S so maybe when {disfmarker} Am I on, by the wayGrad F: I don't know. You should be.PhD H: Oh. Hello HelloGrad F: You should be channel B.PhD H: Oh, OK. Alright. So. The, um {disfmarker} Maybe we should say in {disfmarker} w you know, when the whole thing starts, when they sign the {disfmarker} {vocalsound} the agreement {vocalsound} that {disfmarker} you know, specify exactly uh, what, you know, how {disfmarker} how they will be contacted and they can, you know {disfmarker} they can be asked to give a phone number and an email address, or both. And, um, then {disfmarker}Postdoc A: We did that, I {disfmarker} I believe.PhD H: Right.PhD E: Yeah.PhD H: So. {vocalsound} A And, then, you know, say very clearly that if they don't {disfmarker} if we don't hear from them, you know, as Morgan suggested, by a certain time or after a certain {vocalsound} period after we contact them {vocalsound} that is implicitly giving their agreement.Grad F: Well, they've already signed a form.Postdoc A: And the form says {disfmarker}PhD E: And nobody {disfmarker} nobody really reads it anyway.PhD H: Right.Grad F: So. And the s and the form was approved by Human Subjects,PhD H: Says that. Right.Postdoc A: Uh, the fPhD H: Well, if that's i tha if that's already {disfmarker} if {disfmarker}Grad F: so, eh, that's gonna be a little hard to modify.Postdoc A: the way down the page," OK" . And they have two options they can change it to. One of them is {pause}" censor" , and the other one is" incorrect" . Is it {disfmarker} is {disfmarker} your word is" incorrect" Grad F: Right.Postdoc A: Which means also we get feedback on {pause} if {pause} um, there's something that they w that needs to be {pause} adjusted, because, I mean, these are very highly technical things. I mean, it's an added, uh, level of checking on the accuracy of the transcription, as I see it. But in any case, people can agree to things that are wrong.Grad F: Well {disfmarker}Postdoc A: So.Grad F: Yeah. The reason I did that it was just so that people would not censor {disfmarker} not ask to have stuff removed because it was transcribed incorrectly,Postdoc A: And the reason I liked it was because {disfmarker}Grad F: as opposed to, uh {disfmarker}Postdoc A: was because it, um {disfmarker} it gives them the option of, uh, being able to correct it.Grad F: Right.Postdoc A: Approve it and correct it. And {pause} um. So, you have {pause} it nicely set up so they email you and, uh {disfmarker}Grad F: When they submit the form, it gets processed and emailed to me.Postdoc A: Mm - hmm. Mm - hmm. And I wanted to say the meetings that are involved in that set are Robustness and Meeting Recorder.Grad F: So.Postdoc A: The German ones will be ready for next week. Those are three {disfmarker} three of those. A different set of people. And we can impose {disfmarker}PhD C: The German onesPostdoc A: Uh, well.PhD H: Yeah. Those {disfmarker} uh {disfmarker}Professor B: NSA.Postdoc A: OK. I spoke loosely. The {disfmarker} the German, French {disfmarker} Sorry, the German, {vocalsound} Dutch, and Spanish ones.PhD the case {disfmarker}Grad F: and now we're {disfmarker} we're saying we have to follow up each person and get a signaturePhD H: it might {disfmarker} Right.Grad F: I mean, what are we gonna doing herePhD H: It might well be the case that {disfmarker} that this is perfectly {disfmarker} you know, this is enough to give us a basis t to just, eh, assume their consent if they don't reply.Professor B: Well.Grad F: Mm - hmm.PhD H: But, I'm not {disfmarker} you know, me not being a lawyer, I wouldn't just wanna do that without {pause} having the {disfmarker} the expert, uh, opinion on that.Postdoc A: And how many people Al - altogether we've got twenty people. These people are people who read their email almost all the time.Grad F: Then I think we had better find out, so that we can find a {disfmarker}PhD H: Yeah.Professor B: Let me look at this again.Grad F: Right.Postdoc A: I {disfmarker} I really don't see that it's a problem. I {disfmarker} I think that it's a common courtesy to ask them {disfmarker} uh, to expect for them to, uh, be able to have @ @ {comment} us try to contact them,Grad F: For {disfmarker} for thPostdoc A: u just in case they hadn't gotten their email. I think they'd appreciate it.Professor B: Yeah. My {disfmarker} Adam, my {disfmarker} my view before was about {pause} the nature of what was {disfmarker} of the presentation,Grad F: Mm - hmm.Professor B: of {disfmarker} of how {pause} my {disfmarker} my {disfmarker} the things that we're questioning were along the lines of how easy {disfmarker} uh, h how m how much implication would there be that it's likely you're going to be changing something, as opposed to {disfmarker}Grad F: Mm - hmm.Professor B: That was the kind aspect of it,Professor B: Yeah.Postdoc A: but I think {disfmarker}PhD H: No, no, no. {vocalsound} I actually don't.Postdoc A: I appreciate it.PhD H: I'm just saying thatGrad F: Well, I {disfmarker} cuz I use a text mail reader.PhD H: if ev but I'm {disfmarker}PhD E: Don't you use VI for your maiPhD H: Yeah.Professor B: Wow. That's {disfmarker} that's my guy. Alright.Grad F: You {disfmarker} you read email {pause} in VIPhD H: Yeah.Postdoc A: Yeah. {vocalsound} I like VI.PhD H: So {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} i There's these logos {pause} that you can put at the bottom of your web page, like" powered by VI" .Grad D: Yeah.Professor B: Wow.Grad D: I see.PhD E: Anyway, quick question.Grad F: You could put wed bugs in the email.PhD E: How mPhD H: Yeah.PhD E: Like, there were three meetings this time, or soPostdoc A: Six.PhD E: or how many Six But, no of different people. So I guess if you're in both these types of meetings, you'd have a lot. But {disfmarker} {vocalsound} How {disfmarker} I mean, it also depends on how many {disfmarker} Like, if we release {disfmarker} this time it's a fairly small number of meetings, but what if we release, like, twenty - five meetings to people In thGrad F: Well, what my s expectation is, is that we'll send out one of these emails {pause} every time a meeting has been checked and is ready.PhD E: I don't know. Oh. Oh, OK. So this time was just the first chunk. OK.Grad F: So. Tha - that was my intention. It's just {disfmarker} yeah {disfmarker} that we just happened to have a bunch all at once.PhD E: Well, that's a good idea.Grad F: I mean, maybe {disfmarker} Is that {pause} the way it's gonna be, you think, JanePostdoc A: I of dispute I was making before.Postdoc A: Mm - hmm. I remember that.Professor B: But, um, the attorneys, I {disfmarker} uh, I can guarantee you, the attorneys will always come back with {disfmarker} and we have to decide how stringent we want to be in these things, but they will always come back with saying {vocalsound} that, um, you need to {disfmarker} you want to have someth some paper trail or {disfmarker} which includes electronic trail {disfmarker} {vocalsound} that they have, uh, in fact {pause} O K'd it.Grad F: Mm - hmm.Professor B: So, um, I think that if you f i if {pause} we send the email as you have and if there's half the people, say, who don't respond {pause} at all by, you know, some period of time, {vocalsound} we can just make a list of these people and hand it to, uh {disfmarker} you know, just give it to me and I'll hand it to administrative staff or whatever,Grad F: Right.Professor B: and they'll just call them up and say, you know," have you {disfmarker} Is {disfmarker} is this OK And would you please mail {disfmarker} you know, mail Adam that it is, if i if it, you know, is or not." So, you know, we can {disfmarker} we can do that.PhD E: The other thing that there's a psychological effect that {disfmarker} at least for most people, that if they've responded to your email saying" yes, I will do it" or" yes, I got your email" , they're more likely to actually do it {comment} {pause} later {pause} than to just ignore it.Professor B: Mm - hmm.PhD E: And of course we don't want them to bleep things out, but it {disfmarker} it's a little bit better if we're getting the {disfmarker} their, uh, final

What did the team think about sending an email to ask for changes

The team thought that people would not respond to their emails, which would be compounded by them being out of town over the summer. Based on knowledge about similar data collection, they thought that emails should be enough, but skepticism about getting consent with emails prevailed.

most of the month. Right Because if someone {disfmarker}Professor B: It {disfmarker} well, it {disfmarker} well, you're right. Sometimes somebody will be {pause} away and, uh, you know, there's, uh {disfmarker} for any length of time that you {vocalsound} uh, choose {pause} there is some person sometime who will not {pause} end up reading it.Postdoc A: OK.Professor B: That's {disfmarker} it's, you know, just a certain risk to take.PhD H: S so maybe when {disfmarker} Am I on, by the wayGrad F: I don't know. You should be.PhD H: Oh. Hello HelloGrad F: You should be channel B.PhD H: Oh, OK. Alright. So. The, um {disfmarker} Maybe we should say in {disfmarker} w you know, when the whole thing starts, when they sign the {disfmarker} {vocalsound} the agreement {vocalsound} that {disfmarker} you know, specify exactly uh, what, you know, how {disfmarker} how they will be contacted and they can, you know {disfmarker} they can be asked to give a phone number and an email address, or both. And, um, then {disfmarker}Postdoc A: We did that, I {disfmarker} I believe.PhD H: Right.PhD E: Yeah.PhD H: So. {vocalsound} A And, then, you know, say very clearly that if they don't {disfmarker} if we don't hear from them, you know, as Morgan suggested, by a certain time or after a certain {vocalsound} period after we contact them {vocalsound} that is implicitly giving their agreement.Grad F: Well, they've already signed a form.Postdoc A: And the form says {disfmarker}PhD E: And nobody {disfmarker} nobody really reads it anyway.PhD H: Right.Grad F: So. And the s and the form was approved by Human Subjects,PhD H: Says that. Right.Postdoc A: Uh, the fPhD H: Well, if that's i tha if that's already {disfmarker} if {disfmarker}Grad F: so, eh, that's gonna be a little hard to modify.Postdoc A: the case {disfmarker}Grad F: and now we're {disfmarker} we're saying we have to follow up each person and get a signaturePhD H: it might {disfmarker} Right.Grad F: I mean, what are we gonna doing herePhD H: It might well be the case that {disfmarker} that this is perfectly {disfmarker} you know, this is enough to give us a basis t to just, eh, assume their consent if they don't reply.Professor B: Well.Grad F: Mm - hmm.PhD H: But, I'm not {disfmarker} you know, me not being a lawyer, I wouldn't just wanna do that without {pause} having the {disfmarker} the expert, uh, opinion on that.Postdoc A: And how many people Al - altogether we've got twenty people. These people are people who read their email almost all the time.Grad F: Then I think we had better find out, so that we can find a {disfmarker}PhD H: Yeah.Professor B: Let me look at this again.Grad F: Right.Postdoc A: I {disfmarker} I really don't see that it's a problem. I {disfmarker} I think that it's a common courtesy to ask them {disfmarker} uh, to expect for them to, uh, be able to have @ @ {comment} us try to contact them,Grad F: For {disfmarker} for thPostdoc A: u just in case they hadn't gotten their email. I think they'd appreciate it.Professor B: Yeah. My {disfmarker} Adam, my {disfmarker} my view before was about {pause} the nature of what was {disfmarker} of the presentation,Grad F: Mm - hmm.Professor B: of {disfmarker} of how {pause} my {disfmarker} my {disfmarker} the things that we're questioning were along the lines of how easy {disfmarker} uh, h how m how much implication would there be that it's likely you're going to be changing something, as opposed to {disfmarker}Grad F: Mm - hmm.Professor B: That was the kind Grad F: OK.PhD C: Adam, what is the mike that, uh, Jeremy's wearingGrad F: It's the ear - plug mike.Postdoc A: Ear - plug.PhD E: That's good.PhD C: Is that a wireless, or {disfmarker} Oh.Grad F: No.Grad G: It's wired.Professor B: Oh!Postdoc A: Is that {disfmarker} Does that mean you can't hear anything during the meetingGrad D: It's old - school.Grad F: Huh What HuhProfessor B: Should we, uh, close the door, maybeGrad F: It {disfmarker} it's a fairly good mike, actually.Professor B: So it's {disfmarker} Yeah. Huh.Grad F: Well, I shouldn't say it's a good mike. All I really know is that the signal level is OK. I don't know if it's a {disfmarker} the quality.Professor B: Well, that's aGrad F: Ugh! So I didn't send out agenda items because until five minutes ago we only had one agenda item and now we have two. So. {vocalsound} And, uh.Professor B: OK. So, just to repeat the thing bef that we said last week, it was there's this suggestion of alternating weeks on {vocalsound} more, uh, automatic speech recognition related or not Was that sort of {pause} the divisionGrad F: Right.Professor B: So which week are we inGrad F: Well {disfmarker} We haven't really started, but I thought we more {disfmarker} we more or less did Meeting Recorder stuff last week, so I thought we could do, uh {disfmarker}Professor B: I thought we had a thing about speech recognition last week too.PhD C: Yeah.Grad F: But I figure also if they're short agenda items, we could also do a little bit of each.Professor B: Yeah.Grad F: So. I seem to be having difficulty getting this adjusted. Here we go.Professor B: OK.Grad F: So, uh, as most of you should know, I did send out the consent form thingies and, uh, the way down the page," OK" . And they have two options they can change it to. One of them is {pause}" censor" , and the other one is" incorrect" . Is it {disfmarker} is {disfmarker} your word is" incorrect" Grad F: Right.Postdoc A: Which means also we get feedback on {pause} if {pause} um, there's something that they w that needs to be {pause} adjusted, because, I mean, these are very highly technical things. I mean, it's an added, uh, level of checking on the accuracy of the transcription, as I see it. But in any case, people can agree to things that are wrong.Grad F: Well {disfmarker}Postdoc A: So.Grad F: Yeah. The reason I did that it was just so that people would not censor {disfmarker} not ask to have stuff removed because it was transcribed incorrectly,Postdoc A: And the reason I liked it was because {disfmarker}Grad F: as opposed to, uh {disfmarker}Postdoc A: was because it, um {disfmarker} it gives them the option of, uh, being able to correct it.Grad F: Right.Postdoc A: Approve it and correct it. And {pause} um. So, you have {pause} it nicely set up so they email you and, uh {disfmarker}Grad F: When they submit the form, it gets processed and emailed to me.Postdoc A: Mm - hmm. Mm - hmm. And I wanted to say the meetings that are involved in that set are Robustness and Meeting Recorder.Grad F: So.Postdoc A: The German ones will be ready for next week. Those are three {disfmarker} three of those. A different set of people. And we can impose {disfmarker}PhD C: The German onesPostdoc A: Uh, well.PhD H: Yeah. Those {disfmarker} uh {disfmarker}Professor B: NSA.Postdoc A: OK. I spoke loosely. The {disfmarker} the German, French {disfmarker} Sorry, the German, {vocalsound} Dutch, and Spanish ones.PhD of dispute I was making before.Postdoc A: Mm - hmm. I remember that.Professor B: But, um, the attorneys, I {disfmarker} uh, I can guarantee you, the attorneys will always come back with {disfmarker} and we have to decide how stringent we want to be in these things, but they will always come back with saying {vocalsound} that, um, you need to {disfmarker} you want to have someth some paper trail or {disfmarker} which includes electronic trail {disfmarker} {vocalsound} that they have, uh, in fact {pause} O K'd it.Grad F: Mm - hmm.Professor B: So, um, I think that if you f i if {pause} we send the email as you have and if there's half the people, say, who don't respond {pause} at all by, you know, some period of time, {vocalsound} we can just make a list of these people and hand it to, uh {disfmarker} you know, just give it to me and I'll hand it to administrative staff or whatever,Grad F: Right.Professor B: and they'll just call them up and say, you know," have you {disfmarker} Is {disfmarker} is this OK And would you please mail {disfmarker} you know, mail Adam that it is, if i if it, you know, is or not." So, you know, we can {disfmarker} we can do that.PhD E: The other thing that there's a psychological effect that {disfmarker} at least for most people, that if they've responded to your email saying" yes, I will do it" or" yes, I got your email" , they're more likely to actually do it {comment} {pause} later {pause} than to just ignore it.Professor B: Mm - hmm.PhD E: And of course we don't want them to bleep things out, but it {disfmarker} it's a little bit better if we're getting the {disfmarker} their, uh, final

What did Grad F think about getting consent

Grad F was responsible for bringing up the topic. Apparently, no one had replied to the emails allowing people to bleep things out so far. According to Grad F, as long as the email was sent out, the team was covered. Grad F thought this had been settled when the project started and did not need to be revisited.

was one small problem but it was a simple thing to fix. And then, um, {vocalsound} we, uh {disfmarker} I sent him a pointer to three more. And so he's {pause} off and {pause} working on those.Grad F: Yeah. Now we haven't actually had anyone go through that meeting, to see whether the transcript is correct and to see how much was missed and all that sort of stuff.Postdoc A: That's on my list.Grad F: So at some point we need to do that.PhD C: Yeah.Postdoc A: Well, that's on my list.PhD C: Yeah. It's gonna have to go through our regular process.Grad F: I mean, the one thing I noticed is it did miss a lot of backchannels. There are a fair number of" yeahs" and" uh - huhs" that {disfmarker} it's just {disfmarker} that aren't in there. So.Postdoc A: Hmm.Professor B: But I think {disfmarker} Yeah. Like you said, I mean, that's {disfmarker} that's gonna be our standard proc that's what the transcribers are gonna be spending most of their time doing, I would imagine,Postdoc A: Mm - hmm. Mm - hmm, mm - hmm.Professor B: once {disfmarker} once we {disfmarker}Grad F: Yes, absolutely. Yeah.Postdoc A: One question about the backchannels.Professor B: It's gonna {disfmarker}Postdoc A: Do you suppose that was because they weren't caught by the pre - segmenterGrad F: Yes, absolutely. Absolutely.Postdoc A: Oh, interesting. Oh, interesting. OK.Grad F: Yeah. They're {disfmarker} they're not in the segmented.Postdoc A: OK.Grad F: It's not that the {pause} IBM people didn't do it.Postdoc A: OK.Grad F: Just they didn't get marked.Postdoc A: OK. So maybe when the detector for that gets better or something {disfmarker} I w I {disfmarker} There's another issue which is this {disfmarker} we've been, uh, contacted by University of Washington now, of course, to, um {disfmarker} We sent them the transcripts that correspond to those {pause} six meetings and they're downloading the audio files. So they'll be doing that. Chuck's {disfmarker} Chuck's, uh, put that in.PhD C: Mm - hmm. Yeah, I pointed them to the set that Andreas put, uh, on the {vocalsound} web so th if they want to compare directly with his results they can. And, um, then once, uh, th we can also point them at the, um, uh, the original meetings and they can grab those, too, with SCP.PhD E: Wait. So you put the reference files {disfmarker}PhD C: No, no. They d they wanted the audio.PhD E: Or the {disfmarker}PhD C: Jane sent them the, uh, transcripts.PhD E: No, I mean of the transcripts. Um. Well, we can talk about it off - line.PhD C: Mm - hmm.Grad F: There's another meeting in here, what, at four Right Yeah, so we have to finish by three forty - five.PhD H: D d So, does Washi - does {disfmarker} does UW wanna u do this {disfmarker} wanna use this data for recognition or for something elsePhD C: Uh, for recognition.PhD E: I think they're doing wPhD H: Oh.PhD E: didn't they want to do language modeling on, you know, recognition - compatible transcriptsPhD H: Oh. I see.Postdoc A: This is to show you, uh, some of the things that turn up during the checking procedure.Professor B: Yeah.PhD E: or {disfmarker}Postdoc A: Um @ @ {comment} So, this is from one of the NSA meetings and, uh, i if you're familiar with the diff format, the arrow to the left is what it was, and the arrow to the right is {pause} what it was changed to. So, um. {vocalsound} And now the first one." OK. So, then we started a Grad F: OK.PhD C: Adam, what is the mike that, uh, Jeremy's wearingGrad F: It's the ear - plug mike.Postdoc A: Ear - plug.PhD E: That's good.PhD C: Is that a wireless, or {disfmarker} Oh.Grad F: No.Grad G: It's wired.Professor B: Oh!Postdoc A: Is that {disfmarker} Does that mean you can't hear anything during the meetingGrad D: It's old - school.Grad F: Huh What HuhProfessor B: Should we, uh, close the door, maybeGrad F: It {disfmarker} it's a fairly good mike, actually.Professor B: So it's {disfmarker} Yeah. Huh.Grad F: Well, I shouldn't say it's a good mike. All I really know is that the signal level is OK. I don't know if it's a {disfmarker} the quality.Professor B: Well, that's aGrad F: Ugh! So I didn't send out agenda items because until five minutes ago we only had one agenda item and now we have two. So. {vocalsound} And, uh.Professor B: OK. So, just to repeat the thing bef that we said last week, it was there's this suggestion of alternating weeks on {vocalsound} more, uh, automatic speech recognition related or not Was that sort of {pause} the divisionGrad F: Right.Professor B: So which week are we inGrad F: Well {disfmarker} We haven't really started, but I thought we more {disfmarker} we more or less did Meeting Recorder stuff last week, so I thought we could do, uh {disfmarker}Professor B: I thought we had a thing about speech recognition last week too.PhD C: Yeah.Grad F: But I figure also if they're short agenda items, we could also do a little bit of each.Professor B: Yeah.Grad F: So. I seem to be having difficulty getting this adjusted. Here we go.Professor B: OK.Grad F: So, uh, as most of you should know, I did send out the consent form thingies and, uh, So next week we'll do automatic transcription status, plus anything that's real timely.PhD H: OK.PhD E: Oh. OK.Postdoc A: OK.Professor B: OK. Whew!PhD C: Good update.Grad F: Whew!Professor B: That was {disfmarker}Grad F: Dodged that bullet.Professor B: Yeah. Nicely done, Liz.Postdoc A: A woman of few words.Professor B: But {disfmarker} but lots of prosody. OK. {vocalsound} OK.Grad F: ThPhD H: Uh, I mean, we {disfmarker} we really haven't done anything.Grad F: Excuse mePhD H: Sorry.Postdoc A: Well, since last week.PhD E: Yeah, we're {disfmarker}PhD H: I mean, the {disfmarker} the next thing on our agenda is to go back and look at the, um {disfmarker} {vocalsound} the automatic alignments because, uh, I got some {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I learned from Thilo what data we can use as a benchmark to see how well we're doing on automatic alignments of the background speech {disfmarker} or, of the foreground speech with background speech.Grad F: Yeah.PhD H: So.PhD E: And then, uh, I guess, the new data that Don will start to process {disfmarker}PhD H: But, we haven't actually {disfmarker}PhD E: the, um {disfmarker} when he can get these {disfmarker} You know, before we were working with these segments that were all synchronous and that caused a lot of problemsPhD H: Mmm.PhD E: because you have timed sp at {disfmarker} on either side.Grad F: Oh. Right, right. Mm - hmm.PhD E: And so that's sort of a stage - two of trying the same kinds of alignments with the tighter boundaries with them is really the next step.Grad F: Right.Postdoc A: I'll be interested.PhD E: We did get our, um {disfmarker} I guess, good news. We got our abstract accepted for this conference, um {disfmarker} workshop, ISCA workshop, in, um, uh, New Jersey. And we sent in a very poor abstract, addingGrad F: and then {disfmarker} Overlapping. So, it's {disfmarker} it's exactly a censor bleep. So what I really think is" bleep" Professor B: I I I I understand, but is {disfmarker} is it summing signalsGrad F: and then I want to {disfmarker}Professor B: or do you {pause} delete the old one and put the new one inGrad F: I delete the old one, put the new one in.Professor B: Oh, OK. Cuz {disfmarker}Grad F: There's nothing left of the original signal.Professor B: Oh. Cuz if you were summing, you could {disfmarker} No. But anyway {disfmarker}Grad F: Yeah. It would be qui quite easy to get it back again.Postdoc A: But {disfmarker} {vocalsound} And then w I was gonna say also that the they don't have to stay on the system, as you know,Professor B: Yeah.PhD E: Then someday we can sell the {pause} unedited versions.Postdoc A: cuz {disfmarker} cuz the {disfmarker} the ones {disfmarker}Grad F: Say againPostdoc A: Once it's been successfully bleeped, can't you rely on the {disfmarker}PhD C: Or {pause} we'll tell people the frequency of the beepProfessor B: Encrypt it.PhD C: and then they could subtract the beep out.Grad D: You can hide it. Yeah.Postdoc A: Can't you rely on the archiving to preserve the older versionPhD H: Oh, yeah.Grad D: It wouldn't be that hard to hide it.PhD E: Right. Exactly. I see.Grad F: Yeah, that's true. Yeah. Yep, that's true.PhD E: See, this is good. I wanted to create some {pause} side conversations in these meetings.Postdoc A: OK.Professor B: Yeah. You could encrypt it, you know, with a {disfmarker} with a two hundred bit {disfmarker} {vocalsound} thousand bit, uh {disfmarker}Grad D: You can use spread spectrum.PhD C: Uh - huh.Grad D: Hide it.PhD E: So {disfmarker}PhD C: Here we go.PhD E: Yeah. Yeah.Grad D: Yeah,

Summarize the discussion about new headphones and disk space

The team decided that it would be a good idea to purchase headphones. They also ordered a hundred gigabytes of disk space though they thought an extra eighteen for backup would not be a bad idea. This was good because the team was currently constrained by space.

was one small problem but it was a simple thing to fix. And then, um, {vocalsound} we, uh {disfmarker} I sent him a pointer to three more. And so he's {pause} off and {pause} working on those.Grad F: Yeah. Now we haven't actually had anyone go through that meeting, to see whether the transcript is correct and to see how much was missed and all that sort of stuff.Postdoc A: That's on my list.Grad F: So at some point we need to do that.PhD C: Yeah.Postdoc A: Well, that's on my list.PhD C: Yeah. It's gonna have to go through our regular process.Grad F: I mean, the one thing I noticed is it did miss a lot of backchannels. There are a fair number of" yeahs" and" uh - huhs" that {disfmarker} it's just {disfmarker} that aren't in there. So.Postdoc A: Hmm.Professor B: But I think {disfmarker} Yeah. Like you said, I mean, that's {disfmarker} that's gonna be our standard proc that's what the transcribers are gonna be spending most of their time doing, I would imagine,Postdoc A: Mm - hmm. Mm - hmm, mm - hmm.Professor B: once {disfmarker} once we {disfmarker}Grad F: Yes, absolutely. Yeah.Postdoc A: One question about the backchannels.Professor B: It's gonna {disfmarker}Postdoc A: Do you suppose that was because they weren't caught by the pre - segmenterGrad F: Yes, absolutely. Absolutely.Postdoc A: Oh, interesting. Oh, interesting. OK.Grad F: Yeah. They're {disfmarker} they're not in the segmented.Postdoc A: OK.Grad F: It's not that the {pause} IBM people didn't do it.Postdoc A: OK.Grad F: Just they didn't get marked.Postdoc A: OK. So maybe when the detector for that gets better or something {disfmarker} I w I {disfmarker} There's another issue which is this {disfmarker} we've been, uh, contacted by University of Washington now, of course, to, um {disfmarker} We sent them the transcripts that correspond to those {pause} six meetings and they're downloading the audio files. So they'll be doing that. Chuck's {disfmarker} Chuck's, uh, put that in.PhD C: Mm - hmm. Yeah, I pointed them to the set that Andreas put, uh, on the {vocalsound} web so th if they want to compare directly with his results they can. And, um, then once, uh, th we can also point them at the, um, uh, the original meetings and they can grab those, too, with SCP.PhD E: Wait. So you put the reference files {disfmarker}PhD C: No, no. They d they wanted the audio.PhD E: Or the {disfmarker}PhD C: Jane sent them the, uh, transcripts.PhD E: No, I mean of the transcripts. Um. Well, we can talk about it off - line.PhD C: Mm - hmm.Grad F: There's another meeting in here, what, at four Right Yeah, so we have to finish by three forty - five.PhD H: D d So, does Washi - does {disfmarker} does UW wanna u do this {disfmarker} wanna use this data for recognition or for something elsePhD C: Uh, for recognition.PhD E: I think they're doing wPhD H: Oh.PhD E: didn't they want to do language modeling on, you know, recognition - compatible transcriptsPhD H: Oh. I see.Postdoc A: This is to show you, uh, some of the things that turn up during the checking procedure.Professor B: Yeah.PhD E: or {disfmarker}Postdoc A: Um @ @ {comment} So, this is from one of the NSA meetings and, uh, i if you're familiar with the diff format, the arrow to the left is what it was, and the arrow to the right is {pause} what it was changed to. So, um. {vocalsound} And now the first one." OK. So, then we started a most of the month. Right Because if someone {disfmarker}Professor B: It {disfmarker} well, it {disfmarker} well, you're right. Sometimes somebody will be {pause} away and, uh, you know, there's, uh {disfmarker} for any length of time that you {vocalsound} uh, choose {pause} there is some person sometime who will not {pause} end up reading it.Postdoc A: OK.Professor B: That's {disfmarker} it's, you know, just a certain risk to take.PhD H: S so maybe when {disfmarker} Am I on, by the wayGrad F: I don't know. You should be.PhD H: Oh. Hello HelloGrad F: You should be channel B.PhD H: Oh, OK. Alright. So. The, um {disfmarker} Maybe we should say in {disfmarker} w you know, when the whole thing starts, when they sign the {disfmarker} {vocalsound} the agreement {vocalsound} that {disfmarker} you know, specify exactly uh, what, you know, how {disfmarker} how they will be contacted and they can, you know {disfmarker} they can be asked to give a phone number and an email address, or both. And, um, then {disfmarker}Postdoc A: We did that, I {disfmarker} I believe.PhD H: Right.PhD E: Yeah.PhD H: So. {vocalsound} A And, then, you know, say very clearly that if they don't {disfmarker} if we don't hear from them, you know, as Morgan suggested, by a certain time or after a certain {vocalsound} period after we contact them {vocalsound} that is implicitly giving their agreement.Grad F: Well, they've already signed a form.Postdoc A: And the form says {disfmarker}PhD E: And nobody {disfmarker} nobody really reads it anyway.PhD H: Right.Grad F: So. And the s and the form was approved by Human Subjects,PhD H: Says that. Right.Postdoc A: Uh, the fPhD H: Well, if that's i tha if that's already {disfmarker} if {disfmarker}Grad F: so, eh, that's gonna be a little hard to modify.Postdoc A: So next week we'll do automatic transcription status, plus anything that's real timely.PhD H: OK.PhD E: Oh. OK.Postdoc A: OK.Professor B: OK. Whew!PhD C: Good update.Grad F: Whew!Professor B: That was {disfmarker}Grad F: Dodged that bullet.Professor B: Yeah. Nicely done, Liz.Postdoc A: A woman of few words.Professor B: But {disfmarker} but lots of prosody. OK. {vocalsound} OK.Grad F: ThPhD H: Uh, I mean, we {disfmarker} we really haven't done anything.Grad F: Excuse mePhD H: Sorry.Postdoc A: Well, since last week.PhD E: Yeah, we're {disfmarker}PhD H: I mean, the {disfmarker} the next thing on our agenda is to go back and look at the, um {disfmarker} {vocalsound} the automatic alignments because, uh, I got some {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I learned from Thilo what data we can use as a benchmark to see how well we're doing on automatic alignments of the background speech {disfmarker} or, of the foreground speech with background speech.Grad F: Yeah.PhD H: So.PhD E: And then, uh, I guess, the new data that Don will start to process {disfmarker}PhD H: But, we haven't actually {disfmarker}PhD E: the, um {disfmarker} when he can get these {disfmarker} You know, before we were working with these segments that were all synchronous and that caused a lot of problemsPhD H: Mmm.PhD E: because you have timed sp at {disfmarker} on either side.Grad F: Oh. Right, right. Mm - hmm.PhD E: And so that's sort of a stage - two of trying the same kinds of alignments with the tighter boundaries with them is really the next step.Grad F: Right.Postdoc A: I'll be interested.PhD E: We did get our, um {disfmarker} I guess, good news. We got our abstract accepted for this conference, um {disfmarker} workshop, ISCA workshop, in, um, uh, New Jersey. And we sent in a very poor abstract, it.PhD H: I just {disfmarker}Grad F: Come on.PhD H: Right.Professor B: Yeah. If you need it.PhD H: Yeah.Professor B: Yeah.Postdoc A: It'd just have to be a s a separate order {disfmarker} an added order.Grad D: Yeah, I still {disfmarker} I still need to get a pair, too.Professor B: They're {disfmarker} they're {disfmarker} they're {disfmarker} they're pretty inexpensive.PhD E: Yeah, that {disfmarker} We should order a cou uh, t two or three or four, actually.Professor B: Yeah.Grad D: I'm using one of these. Yeah.PhD E: We have {disfmarker}PhD H: I think I have a pair that I brought from home, but it's f just for music listeningProfessor B: No. Just {disfmarker} just {disfmarker} just {disfmarker} just buy them.PhD E: Sh - Just get the model numberPhD H: and it's not {disfmarker} Nnn. Yeah.Professor B: Just buy them.PhD E: and {disfmarker} Where do you buy these fromPhD H: Yeah.Postdoc A: Cambridge SoundWorks, just down the street.PhD E: Like {disfmarker} You just b go and bPostdoc A: Yeah. They always have them in stock.PhD E: Oh.Professor B: Yeah.PhD E: That'd be a good idea.PhD H: Anyway.Professor B: Yeah.Grad F: W uh, could you email out the brandPostdoc A: Oh, sure. Yeah. OK.Grad F: Cuz I think {disfmarker} sounds like people are interested.Grad D: Yeah.Professor B: Yeah.Grad D: Definitely.Grad F: So.Postdoc A: It's made a difference in {disfmarker} in how easy. Yeah.Professor B: I realized something I should talk about. So what's the other thing on the agenda actuallyGrad F: Uh, the only one was Don wanted to, uh, talk about disk space yet again.Grad D: Yeah. u It's short. I mean, if you wanna go, we can just throw it in at the end.Professor B: No, no. Why don't you {disfmarker} why don't you go ahead since it's short.Grad D: Um, well,

What did postdoc A think about new headphones

Postdoc A thought that the original headphones had low gain, so he purchased new earphones. He informed the team that he just bought them from Cambridge SoundWorks down the street. They always have them in stock.

was one small problem but it was a simple thing to fix. And then, um, {vocalsound} we, uh {disfmarker} I sent him a pointer to three more. And so he's {pause} off and {pause} working on those.Grad F: Yeah. Now we haven't actually had anyone go through that meeting, to see whether the transcript is correct and to see how much was missed and all that sort of stuff.Postdoc A: That's on my list.Grad F: So at some point we need to do that.PhD C: Yeah.Postdoc A: Well, that's on my list.PhD C: Yeah. It's gonna have to go through our regular process.Grad F: I mean, the one thing I noticed is it did miss a lot of backchannels. There are a fair number of" yeahs" and" uh - huhs" that {disfmarker} it's just {disfmarker} that aren't in there. So.Postdoc A: Hmm.Professor B: But I think {disfmarker} Yeah. Like you said, I mean, that's {disfmarker} that's gonna be our standard proc that's what the transcribers are gonna be spending most of their time doing, I would imagine,Postdoc A: Mm - hmm. Mm - hmm, mm - hmm.Professor B: once {disfmarker} once we {disfmarker}Grad F: Yes, absolutely. Yeah.Postdoc A: One question about the backchannels.Professor B: It's gonna {disfmarker}Postdoc A: Do you suppose that was because they weren't caught by the pre - segmenterGrad F: Yes, absolutely. Absolutely.Postdoc A: Oh, interesting. Oh, interesting. OK.Grad F: Yeah. They're {disfmarker} they're not in the segmented.Postdoc A: OK.Grad F: It's not that the {pause} IBM people didn't do it.Postdoc A: OK.Grad F: Just they didn't get marked.Postdoc A: OK. So maybe when the detector for that gets better or something {disfmarker} I w I {disfmarker} There's another issue which is this {disfmarker} we've been, uh, contacted by University of Washington now, of course, to, um {disfmarker} We sent them the transcripts that correspond to those {pause} six meetings and they're downloading the audio files. So they'll be doing that. Chuck's {disfmarker} Chuck's, uh, put that in.PhD C: Mm - hmm. Yeah, I pointed them to the set that Andreas put, uh, on the {vocalsound} web so th if they want to compare directly with his results they can. And, um, then once, uh, th we can also point them at the, um, uh, the original meetings and they can grab those, too, with SCP.PhD E: Wait. So you put the reference files {disfmarker}PhD C: No, no. They d they wanted the audio.PhD E: Or the {disfmarker}PhD C: Jane sent them the, uh, transcripts.PhD E: No, I mean of the transcripts. Um. Well, we can talk about it off - line.PhD C: Mm - hmm.Grad F: There's another meeting in here, what, at four Right Yeah, so we have to finish by three forty - five.PhD H: D d So, does Washi - does {disfmarker} does UW wanna u do this {disfmarker} wanna use this data for recognition or for something elsePhD C: Uh, for recognition.PhD E: I think they're doing wPhD H: Oh.PhD E: didn't they want to do language modeling on, you know, recognition - compatible transcriptsPhD H: Oh. I see.Postdoc A: This is to show you, uh, some of the things that turn up during the checking procedure.Professor B: Yeah.PhD E: or {disfmarker}Postdoc A: Um @ @ {comment} So, this is from one of the NSA meetings and, uh, i if you're familiar with the diff format, the arrow to the left is what it was, and the arrow to the right is {pause} what it was changed to. So, um. {vocalsound} And now the first one." OK. So, then we started a aspect of it,Professor B: Yeah.Postdoc A: but I think {disfmarker}PhD H: No, no, no. {vocalsound} I actually don't.Postdoc A: I appreciate it.PhD H: I'm just saying thatGrad F: Well, I {disfmarker} cuz I use a text mail reader.PhD H: if ev but I'm {disfmarker}PhD E: Don't you use VI for your maiPhD H: Yeah.Professor B: Wow. That's {disfmarker} that's my guy. Alright.Grad F: You {disfmarker} you read email {pause} in VIPhD H: Yeah.Postdoc A: Yeah. {vocalsound} I like VI.PhD H: So {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} i There's these logos {pause} that you can put at the bottom of your web page, like" powered by VI" .Grad D: Yeah.Professor B: Wow.Grad D: I see.PhD E: Anyway, quick question.Grad F: You could put wed bugs in the email.PhD E: How mPhD H: Yeah.PhD E: Like, there were three meetings this time, or soPostdoc A: Six.PhD E: or how many Six But, no of different people. So I guess if you're in both these types of meetings, you'd have a lot. But {disfmarker} {vocalsound} How {disfmarker} I mean, it also depends on how many {disfmarker} Like, if we release {disfmarker} this time it's a fairly small number of meetings, but what if we release, like, twenty - five meetings to people In thGrad F: Well, what my s expectation is, is that we'll send out one of these emails {pause} every time a meeting has been checked and is ready.PhD E: I don't know. Oh. Oh, OK. So this time was just the first chunk. OK.Grad F: So. Tha - that was my intention. It's just {disfmarker} yeah {disfmarker} that we just happened to have a bunch all at once.PhD E: Well, that's a good idea.Grad F: I mean, maybe {disfmarker} Is that {pause} the way it's gonna be, you think, JanePostdoc A: I there you go.PhD E: Cuz we don't have enough asides.PhD H: I have an idea. You reverse the signal,Grad D: There you go.PhD H: so it {disfmarker} it lets people say what they said backwards.Grad F: Backwards.Grad D: Then you have, like, subliminal, uh, messages,Grad F: But, ha you've seen the {disfmarker} this {disfmarker} the speech recognition system that reversed very short segments.PhD H: Yeah.Grad D: like.Grad F: Did you read that paper It wouldn't work.PhD H: No.Grad F: The speech recognizer still works.PhD E: Yeah. And if you do it backward then {disfmarker}Professor B: Yeah.PhD C: That's cuz they use forward - backward.PhD E: H - good old HMM.Grad F: Forward but backward. That's right.PhD E: No, it's backward - forward.Grad F: Good point. A point. Well, I'm sorry if I sound a little peeved about this whole thing. It's just we've had meeting after meeting after meeting a on this and it seems like we've never gotten it resolved.Postdoc A: Hmm.Professor B: Well, but we never also {disfmarker} we've also never done it.PhD E: Uh.Grad F: So.Postdoc A: This is the first cycle.PhD E: If it makes {disfmarker}Grad F: Yeah.Postdoc A: There're bound to be some glitches the first time through.Professor B: So. {vocalsound} And, uh {disfmarker} and I'm sorry responding without, uh, having much knowledge, but the thing is, uh, I am, like, one of these people who gets a gazillion mails and {disfmarker} and stuff comes in asGrad F: Well, and that's exactly why I did it the way I did it, which is the default is if you do nothing we're gonna release it.Professor B: Yeah.Grad F: Because, you know, I have my {pause} stack of emails of to d to be done, that, you know, fifty or sixty long, and the ones at the in time.Professor B: There's the responding part and there's also what if, uh, I mean, I hope this doesn't happen, what if there are a bunch of deletions that have to get put in and changesGrad F: Right.Professor B: Then {vocalsound} we actually have to deal with thatPostdoc A: Mm - hmm. Some lead time.Professor B: if we want it to {disfmarker}Grad F: Ugh! Disk space,Postdoc A: By the way, has {disfmarker} has Jeremy signed the formGrad F: oh my god! I hadn't thought about that.Postdoc A: OK.Grad F: That for every meeting {disfmarker} any meeting which has any bleeps in it we need yet another copy of.PhD H: Oh.PhD C: Just that channel.Grad D: Can't you just do that channelPhD C: Oh, no. We have to do {disfmarker}Grad F: No, of course not.PhD E: Yeah. You have to do all of them,Grad F: You need all the channels.Grad D: Oh.PhD C: Do you have to do the other close - talkingPhD E: as well as all of these.Grad D: Yeah.PhD E: You have to do all {disfmarker} You could just do it in that time period, though,Grad F: Yes. Absolutely. There's a lot of cross - talk.Grad G: Wow.Postdoc A: Well {disfmarker}PhD E: but I guess it's a pain.Grad F: Well, but you have to copy the whole file.PhD E: Yeah.Grad F: Right Because we're gonna be releasing the whole file.PhD E: Yeah. You're right.Postdoc A: Well {disfmarker} {vocalsound} I {disfmarker} you know, I think at a certain point, that copy that has the deletions will become the master copy.Grad F: Yeah. It's just I hate deleting any data. So I {disfmarker} I don't want {disfmarker} I really would rather make a copy of it, rather than bleep it outProfessor B: Are you del are you bleeping it by

What did the Professor think about headphones and disk space

The professor thought that anyone who needed headphones should purchase them since they were not very expensive. He wanted to get the discussion about disk space out of the way. He informed the team that he had ordered a hundred gigabytes.

was one small problem but it was a simple thing to fix. And then, um, {vocalsound} we, uh {disfmarker} I sent him a pointer to three more. And so he's {pause} off and {pause} working on those.Grad F: Yeah. Now we haven't actually had anyone go through that meeting, to see whether the transcript is correct and to see how much was missed and all that sort of stuff.Postdoc A: That's on my list.Grad F: So at some point we need to do that.PhD C: Yeah.Postdoc A: Well, that's on my list.PhD C: Yeah. It's gonna have to go through our regular process.Grad F: I mean, the one thing I noticed is it did miss a lot of backchannels. There are a fair number of" yeahs" and" uh - huhs" that {disfmarker} it's just {disfmarker} that aren't in there. So.Postdoc A: Hmm.Professor B: But I think {disfmarker} Yeah. Like you said, I mean, that's {disfmarker} that's gonna be our standard proc that's what the transcribers are gonna be spending most of their time doing, I would imagine,Postdoc A: Mm - hmm. Mm - hmm, mm - hmm.Professor B: once {disfmarker} once we {disfmarker}Grad F: Yes, absolutely. Yeah.Postdoc A: One question about the backchannels.Professor B: It's gonna {disfmarker}Postdoc A: Do you suppose that was because they weren't caught by the pre - segmenterGrad F: Yes, absolutely. Absolutely.Postdoc A: Oh, interesting. Oh, interesting. OK.Grad F: Yeah. They're {disfmarker} they're not in the segmented.Postdoc A: OK.Grad F: It's not that the {pause} IBM people didn't do it.Postdoc A: OK.Grad F: Just they didn't get marked.Postdoc A: OK. So maybe when the detector for that gets better or something {disfmarker} I w I {disfmarker} There's another issue which is this {disfmarker} we've been, uh, contacted by University of Washington now, of course, to, um Grad F: OK.PhD C: Adam, what is the mike that, uh, Jeremy's wearingGrad F: It's the ear - plug mike.Postdoc A: Ear - plug.PhD E: That's good.PhD C: Is that a wireless, or {disfmarker} Oh.Grad F: No.Grad G: It's wired.Professor B: Oh!Postdoc A: Is that {disfmarker} Does that mean you can't hear anything during the meetingGrad D: It's old - school.Grad F: Huh What HuhProfessor B: Should we, uh, close the door, maybeGrad F: It {disfmarker} it's a fairly good mike, actually.Professor B: So it's {disfmarker} Yeah. Huh.Grad F: Well, I shouldn't say it's a good mike. All I really know is that the signal level is OK. I don't know if it's a {disfmarker} the quality.Professor B: Well, that's aGrad F: Ugh! So I didn't send out agenda items because until five minutes ago we only had one agenda item and now we have two. So. {vocalsound} And, uh.Professor B: OK. So, just to repeat the thing bef that we said last week, it was there's this suggestion of alternating weeks on {vocalsound} more, uh, automatic speech recognition related or not Was that sort of {pause} the divisionGrad F: Right.Professor B: So which week are we inGrad F: Well {disfmarker} We haven't really started, but I thought we more {disfmarker} we more or less did Meeting Recorder stuff last week, so I thought we could do, uh {disfmarker}Professor B: I thought we had a thing about speech recognition last week too.PhD C: Yeah.Grad F: But I figure also if they're short agenda items, we could also do a little bit of each.Professor B: Yeah.Grad F: So. I seem to be having difficulty getting this adjusted. Here we go.Professor B: OK.Grad F: So, uh, as most of you should know, I did send out the consent form thingies and, uh, {disfmarker} We sent them the transcripts that correspond to those {pause} six meetings and they're downloading the audio files. So they'll be doing that. Chuck's {disfmarker} Chuck's, uh, put that in.PhD C: Mm - hmm. Yeah, I pointed them to the set that Andreas put, uh, on the {vocalsound} web so th if they want to compare directly with his results they can. And, um, then once, uh, th we can also point them at the, um, uh, the original meetings and they can grab those, too, with SCP.PhD E: Wait. So you put the reference files {disfmarker}PhD C: No, no. They d they wanted the audio.PhD E: Or the {disfmarker}PhD C: Jane sent them the, uh, transcripts.PhD E: No, I mean of the transcripts. Um. Well, we can talk about it off - line.PhD C: Mm - hmm.Grad F: There's another meeting in here, what, at four Right Yeah, so we have to finish by three forty - five.PhD H: D d So, does Washi - does {disfmarker} does UW wanna u do this {disfmarker} wanna use this data for recognition or for something elsePhD C: Uh, for recognition.PhD E: I think they're doing wPhD H: Oh.PhD E: didn't they want to do language modeling on, you know, recognition - compatible transcriptsPhD H: Oh. I see.Postdoc A: This is to show you, uh, some of the things that turn up during the checking procedure.Professor B: Yeah.PhD E: or {disfmarker}Postdoc A: Um @ @ {comment} So, this is from one of the NSA meetings and, uh, i if you're familiar with the diff format, the arrow to the left is what it was, and the arrow to the right is {pause} what it was changed to. So, um. {vocalsound} And now the first one." OK. So, then we started a So next week we'll do automatic transcription status, plus anything that's real timely.PhD H: OK.PhD E: Oh. OK.Postdoc A: OK.Professor B: OK. Whew!PhD C: Good update.Grad F: Whew!Professor B: That was {disfmarker}Grad F: Dodged that bullet.Professor B: Yeah. Nicely done, Liz.Postdoc A: A woman of few words.Professor B: But {disfmarker} but lots of prosody. OK. {vocalsound} OK.Grad F: ThPhD H: Uh, I mean, we {disfmarker} we really haven't done anything.Grad F: Excuse mePhD H: Sorry.Postdoc A: Well, since last week.PhD E: Yeah, we're {disfmarker}PhD H: I mean, the {disfmarker} the next thing on our agenda is to go back and look at the, um {disfmarker} {vocalsound} the automatic alignments because, uh, I got some {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I learned from Thilo what data we can use as a benchmark to see how well we're doing on automatic alignments of the background speech {disfmarker} or, of the foreground speech with background speech.Grad F: Yeah.PhD H: So.PhD E: And then, uh, I guess, the new data that Don will start to process {disfmarker}PhD H: But, we haven't actually {disfmarker}PhD E: the, um {disfmarker} when he can get these {disfmarker} You know, before we were working with these segments that were all synchronous and that caused a lot of problemsPhD H: Mmm.PhD E: because you have timed sp at {disfmarker} on either side.Grad F: Oh. Right, right. Mm - hmm.PhD E: And so that's sort of a stage - two of trying the same kinds of alignments with the tighter boundaries with them is really the next step.Grad F: Right.Postdoc A: I'll be interested.PhD E: We did get our, um {disfmarker} I guess, good news. We got our abstract accepted for this conference, um {disfmarker} workshop, ISCA workshop, in, um, uh, New Jersey. And we sent in a very poor abstract, aspect of it,Professor B: Yeah.Postdoc A: but I think {disfmarker}PhD H: No, no, no. {vocalsound} I actually don't.Postdoc A: I appreciate it.PhD H: I'm just saying thatGrad F: Well, I {disfmarker} cuz I use a text mail reader.PhD H: if ev but I'm {disfmarker}PhD E: Don't you use VI for your maiPhD H: Yeah.Professor B: Wow. That's {disfmarker} that's my guy. Alright.Grad F: You {disfmarker} you read email {pause} in VIPhD H: Yeah.Postdoc A: Yeah. {vocalsound} I like VI.PhD H: So {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} i There's these logos {pause} that you can put at the bottom of your web page, like" powered by VI" .Grad D: Yeah.Professor B: Wow.Grad D: I see.PhD E: Anyway, quick question.Grad F: You could put wed bugs in the email.PhD E: How mPhD H: Yeah.PhD E: Like, there were three meetings this time, or soPostdoc A: Six.PhD E: or how many Six But, no of different people. So I guess if you're in both these types of meetings, you'd have a lot. But {disfmarker} {vocalsound} How {disfmarker} I mean, it also depends on how many {disfmarker} Like, if we release {disfmarker} this time it's a fairly small number of meetings, but what if we release, like, twenty - five meetings to people In thGrad F: Well, what my s expectation is, is that we'll send out one of these emails {pause} every time a meeting has been checked and is ready.PhD E: I don't know. Oh. Oh, OK. So this time was just the first chunk. OK.Grad F: So. Tha - that was my intention. It's just {disfmarker} yeah {disfmarker} that we just happened to have a bunch all at once.PhD E: Well, that's a good idea.Grad F: I mean, maybe {disfmarker} Is that {pause} the way it's gonna be, you think, JanePostdoc A: I

Summarize the meeting

The meeting was mostly about the logistics of covering the legal bases around releasing meeting data. The team wanted to make sure that meeting participants would not sue for libel or releasing unwanted information. The team also went over the transcriptions that IBM had done as well as storage space, which was finally looking up. The meeting ended with a general discussion about the progress of the group and future directions.

about these four points and {vocalsound} {disfmarker} or not those four points, my four points, sorry, forgotten that. {vocalsound} You got a different uh {disfmarker}Marketing: {gap}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {gap}Marketing: Yep. I like those printer cables that just have the two little butterfly clips like that.Project Manager: Oh yeah, they're good aren't they, yeah.Marketing: It's really quick.Project Manager: Right okay,Marketing: To use.Project Manager: um yeah here we are. Uh as a note we'll do this alphabetically. {vocalsound} Um do you wanna start AndrewMarketing: Sure, um so what is it you're asking of me nowProject Manager: I don't know, just um your opinion on those four those four points really and how we used them.Marketing: Or sort of our work on setting this up.Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: Yeah. Well, is it {disfmarker} uh okay I'll just go through your system then. The the room uh is fairly institutional, but um the main thing is, I think um our use of this space is more just to report on things as opposed to be creative and constructive and it would probably help to um have l sort of a cumulative effect of we have ideas and we come back and then the ideas are still in discussion, you know,Project Manager: Uh-huh.Marketing: as in other words this this room is sort of a centre point of creativity, whereas in reality as we've gone through this, it's not really the centre point of creativity, it's more just aProject Manager: Well d do you feel though that that you were able to have quite a lot of creative input into the thingMarketing: d debating {disfmarker} Yeah, yeah but that's just the thing is the quest in terms of the the first point there, the room, it feels as though the creativity goes on when we leave, good ideaMarketing: Think could be, yeah.Industrial Designer: I think um the the focus of it a lot was the PowerPoint as opposed to the to the whiteboard,Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: Yeah, yeah.Industrial Designer: and I think that m um is also does you know hinder us and things I think.Marketing: Yeah. Yeah, yeah.Industrial Designer: It will be cooler to have the whiteboard rather than the the PowerPoint,Marketing: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: or maybe the whiteboard and the PowerPoint in the same place,Marketing: Yeah. Yeah, yeah.Industrial Designer: you know in the centre of the {disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: Yeah, because the PowerPoint was provided to us while we had time to prepare, whereas I can imagine if I'd been encouraged to use Paintbrush, for example, or whatever, I would've actually used it,Project Manager: Alright.Marketing: um'ca you know, just'cause that's sorta how we {disfmarker} what we were set up to to use while we had our time.Project Manager: Okay uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: I think that there were too many PowerPoints in the meetings {vocalsound}.'Cause the plug-in and the plugging spent {disfmarker} we spent a lot of time doing that.Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: Yeah.Marketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: And a lot of the information on the PowerPoints, I don't think, you know, we needed to actually {disfmarker} it could have, we could have gone through it {gap} verbally,Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: No, not quite.Industrial Designer: especially my slides,Marketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: I felt that they just you know {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: Okay.Industrial Designer: as opposed to having to present them.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: What about the digital pens, did you find them easy enough to useIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yep clunky.Marketing: {vocalsound} Sure, yeah.User Interface: Oh they're a bit clunky.Industrial Designer: Agreed. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: Yeah. {vocalsound} Yep.Project Manager: Clunky, okay.Marketing: Mm.Project Manager: Um {vocalsound} {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Having to tick it cost prohibitive,User Interface: I think I'd probably increase the cost.Marketing: It would cost more than plastic.User Interface: We've only got {vocalsound} like what, ten cents left so {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: yeah.Marketing: Okay, logo, we've got it in there, haven't weIndustrial Designer: Yep.Project Manager: Yep. Gonna have that on the side, aren't we, like there or somethingMarketing: Huh. And um it's within budget, yep. It is, isn't itUser Interface: Yeah.Marketing: Okay, so we can say then that uh out of a possible {disfmarker} or what would be our goal hereProject Manager: Out of forty nine, I guess.Marketing: Yeah, out of forty nine with with zero being the highest. We are at uh two, seven, eight, ten, fifteen point five.Project Manager:'S pretty good.Marketing: So it's pretty good. Translates to something like about approximately seventy two percent efficacy of our original goal. RightProject Manager: Uh yeah.Marketing: I think'cause if you turn that into a hundred it would be aboutProject Manager: Twice that,Marketing: about thirty one,Project Manager: about thirty one.Marketing: and then invert that, it's {disfmarker}Project Manager: So yeah ab well yeah about sixty nine, seventy percent yeah.Marketing: Oh right, about seventy, yeah seventy percent.Project Manager: It's pretty good.Marketing: Okay, good. That was just a little formality for us to go through.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: Yep, oh hundred pound pen. {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Sorry {vocalsound} {vocalsound} alright.Project Manager: Nobody saw it, honestly. {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} No.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} The cameras did. {vocalsound}Marketing: Hmm.Project Manager: Is that you all have all finished, or {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah that's that's me. I did have one other um one other frame I thought, I mean I I d not knowing how we would deal with this information, I thought okay in theory this kind of a process would be about refining our design, revisiting our original goals.Project Manager: Uh-huh.Marketing: It's think.Marketing: So {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: So still on the topic of room for creativity uh next up is Craig.User Interface: Um I agree with his point it's um it is quite a lot of fun t to go and then you have sort of hit the end then go right, gotta cut everything out'cause we don't have enough money.Project Manager: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: Yep.Industrial Designer: I think another point is that the meetings um are more brainstorming sessions than meetings,Marketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: so time is also a very s um strong factor, and structure.Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Because for a brainstorming meeting you want a structure that allows you to {disfmarker} allows ideas to get tossed, um to be evaluated, and to be reviewed, and to get feedback and come back.Project Manager: Mm.Marketing: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. {vocalsound} Yeah, yeah.Industrial Designer: And I guess that point about the room not being r very friendly to that, I think that's a very big thing,Marketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: and I think the fact that we're wearing these things restricts {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah, sure.Industrial Designer: I feel it'cause I wear m my glasses, right, and that but that irritates me rightProject Manager: Yeah.Industrial Designer: it it it does actually you know affect how, w whether you feel comfortable to communicate.Marketing: Yeah. New creativity.Industrial Designer: I feel like I'm hiding behind the equipment, rather than the equipment is helping me, and you know.Marketing: Yep.Project Manager: So you think a more relaxed atmosphere would be more kind of conducive to creative thought or {disfmarker}Marketing: Right.Industrial Designer: Not not so much an atmosphere, the atmosphere is very relaxed, but the the gearProject Manager: Yeah, but actual environmentIndustrial Designer: yeah you know that creates boundaries to that umMarketing: Mm.Industrial Designer: and and the time the time given also Project Manager: Okay we all all set Right. Well this is the uh final detailed design meeting. Um we're gonna discuss the look and feel design, the user interface design, and we're gonna evaluate the product. And the end result of this meeting has to be a decision on the details of this remote control, like absolute final decision, um and then I'm gonna have to specify the final design in the final report. So um just from from last time to recap, we said we were gonna have a snowman shaped remote control with no L_C_D_ display, no need for talk-back, it was hopefully gonna be kinetic power and battery uh with rubber buttons, maybe backlighting the buttons with some internal L_E_D_s to shine through the casing, um hopefully a jog-dial, and incorporating the slogan somewhere as well. Anything I've missedIndustrial Designer: No.Project Manager: Okay um so uh if you want to present your prototype go ahead.User Interface: Uh-oh. This is it {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Ninja Homer, made in Japan. {vocalsound}User Interface: Um, there are a few changes we've made.Project Manager: Okay.User Interface: Um, well look at the expense sheet, and uh it turned to be quite a lot expensive to have open up and have lots of buttons and stuff inside,Project Manager: Mm. Mm-hmm.User Interface: so instead we've um {disfmarker} this is gonna be an L_C_D_ screen, um just a a very very basic one, very small um with access to the menu through the the scroll wheel and uh confirm um button.Marketing: Mm'kay.User Interface: Uh, apart from that, it's just pretty much the same as we discussed last time.Industrial Designer: And there isn't uh d it doesn't open up to the advanced functions the advanced functions are still hidden from you, but they're hidden in the sense that

Summarize the discussion about changes in the current design.

User Interface indicated to have a simple LCD screen to cut down the budget, while Industrial Designer suggested the application of a little more complex LCD panel, like the number pad, could display the advanced functions possibly used by the users. Marketing and Project Manager agreed with Industrial Designer. Next, the group turned to discuss some details, like the total size for the button, and the various functions of the button as well as a jog-dial.

good ideaMarketing: Think could be, yeah.Industrial Designer: I think um the the focus of it a lot was the PowerPoint as opposed to the to the whiteboard,Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: Yeah, yeah.Industrial Designer: and I think that m um is also does you know hinder us and things I think.Marketing: Yeah. Yeah, yeah.Industrial Designer: It will be cooler to have the whiteboard rather than the the PowerPoint,Marketing: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: or maybe the whiteboard and the PowerPoint in the same place,Marketing: Yeah. Yeah, yeah.Industrial Designer: you know in the centre of the {disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: Yeah, because the PowerPoint was provided to us while we had time to prepare, whereas I can imagine if I'd been encouraged to use Paintbrush, for example, or whatever, I would've actually used it,Project Manager: Alright.Marketing: um'ca you know, just'cause that's sorta how we {disfmarker} what we were set up to to use while we had our time.Project Manager: Okay uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: I think that there were too many PowerPoints in the meetings {vocalsound}.'Cause the plug-in and the plugging spent {disfmarker} we spent a lot of time doing that.Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: Yeah.Marketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: And a lot of the information on the PowerPoints, I don't think, you know, we needed to actually {disfmarker} it could have, we could have gone through it {gap} verbally,Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: No, not quite.Industrial Designer: especially my slides,Marketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: I felt that they just you know {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: Okay.Industrial Designer: as opposed to having to present them.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: What about the digital pens, did you find them easy enough to useIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yep clunky.Marketing: {vocalsound} Sure, yeah.User Interface: Oh they're a bit clunky.Industrial Designer: Agreed. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: Yeah. {vocalsound} Yep.Project Manager: Clunky, okay.Marketing: Mm.Project Manager: Um {vocalsound} {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Having to tick it Project Manager: Okay we all all set Right. Well this is the uh final detailed design meeting. Um we're gonna discuss the look and feel design, the user interface design, and we're gonna evaluate the product. And the end result of this meeting has to be a decision on the details of this remote control, like absolute final decision, um and then I'm gonna have to specify the final design in the final report. So um just from from last time to recap, we said we were gonna have a snowman shaped remote control with no L_C_D_ display, no need for talk-back, it was hopefully gonna be kinetic power and battery uh with rubber buttons, maybe backlighting the buttons with some internal L_E_D_s to shine through the casing, um hopefully a jog-dial, and incorporating the slogan somewhere as well. Anything I've missedIndustrial Designer: No.Project Manager: Okay um so uh if you want to present your prototype go ahead.User Interface: Uh-oh. This is it {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Ninja Homer, made in Japan. {vocalsound}User Interface: Um, there are a few changes we've made.Project Manager: Okay.User Interface: Um, well look at the expense sheet, and uh it turned to be quite a lot expensive to have open up and have lots of buttons and stuff inside,Project Manager: Mm. Mm-hmm.User Interface: so instead we've um {disfmarker} this is gonna be an L_C_D_ screen, um just a a very very basic one, very small um with access to the menu through the the scroll wheel and uh confirm um button.Marketing: Mm'kay.User Interface: Uh, apart from that, it's just pretty much the same as we discussed last time.Industrial Designer: And there isn't uh d it doesn't open up to the advanced functions the advanced functions are still hidden from you, but they're hidden in the sense that cost prohibitive,User Interface: I think I'd probably increase the cost.Marketing: It would cost more than plastic.User Interface: We've only got {vocalsound} like what, ten cents left so {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: yeah.Marketing: Okay, logo, we've got it in there, haven't weIndustrial Designer: Yep.Project Manager: Yep. Gonna have that on the side, aren't we, like there or somethingMarketing: Huh. And um it's within budget, yep. It is, isn't itUser Interface: Yeah.Marketing: Okay, so we can say then that uh out of a possible {disfmarker} or what would be our goal hereProject Manager: Out of forty nine, I guess.Marketing: Yeah, out of forty nine with with zero being the highest. We are at uh two, seven, eight, ten, fifteen point five.Project Manager:'S pretty good.Marketing: So it's pretty good. Translates to something like about approximately seventy two percent efficacy of our original goal. RightProject Manager: Uh yeah.Marketing: I think'cause if you turn that into a hundred it would be aboutProject Manager: Twice that,Marketing: about thirty one,Project Manager: about thirty one.Marketing: and then invert that, it's {disfmarker}Project Manager: So yeah ab well yeah about sixty nine, seventy percent yeah.Marketing: Oh right, about seventy, yeah seventy percent.Project Manager: It's pretty good.Marketing: Okay, good. That was just a little formality for us to go through.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: Yep, oh hundred pound pen. {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Sorry {vocalsound} {vocalsound} alright.Project Manager: Nobody saw it, honestly. {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} No.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} The cameras did. {vocalsound}Marketing: Hmm.Project Manager: Is that you all have all finished, or {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah that's that's me. I did have one other um one other frame I thought, I mean I I d not knowing how we would deal with this information, I thought okay in theory this kind of a process would be about refining our design, revisiting our original goals.Project Manager: Uh-huh.Marketing: It's before you go off was a bit hindering as well,'cause you're half way through a thought, and then you run out of paper and then you have to jump.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah.Marketing: Mm.Project Manager: I know, I think at the very start of today I like wrote a whole load of stuff, didn't click note on one,Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah.Project Manager: then went back and wrote one tiny wee thing on the another page, but then did click note, and so I'm quite worried that I've just written over the top of it or something,Marketing: Hmm. Hmm. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.Project Manager: but they'll have my paper anyway um and haven't done that since.Marketing: Hmm.Industrial Designer: But I think the pen is v is very intuitive, everybody knows how to use it, we don't {gap} have to worry.Project Manager: Yeah,Marketing: Mm-hmm,Industrial Designer: So I think the pen's good.Project Manager: yeah.Marketing: mm-hmm, mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: It's about the best thing. {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: And o on the topic of the technology, it just occurred to me that we actually didn't need to move our computers because each computer has all of the files.Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: It just occurred to me that they all {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah we only needed one computer and {disfmarker}Marketing: We only actually needed one computer.Project Manager: Yeah, that's true.Marketing: If there had been a fifth, that coulda just been sitting there ready to go the whole time.User Interface: Good point.Industrial Designer: And the computer may not um be conducive to a meeting because um you tend to look at your computer and wanna have the urge to check something, you know,Marketing: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.Industrial Designer: it's useful but {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Do you think the computers just provide distraction in a meetingIndustrial Designer: I think too many computers I'll try and do it as quick as possible.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: Um, this is um {disfmarker} I'll just go over your head if that's okay.Project Manager: Yeah.Industrial Designer: I don't think you need the power,Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: so {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Marketing: What's thatIndustrial Designer: No, that's okay that's okay.Marketing: I don't need the PowerPointIndustrial Designer: No, the power cord itself.Marketing: Oh {gap} course,Industrial Designer: Yeah, so then you have a bit more freedom to {disfmarker}Marketing: yeah that's true. Let me get that. A bit more.Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Okay,Industrial Designer: You you still have your blue fingers.Marketing: so what this is is a set-up for us to um uh use a kind of a like a {disfmarker}User Interface: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} Is itIndustrial Designer: You killed a monster.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: The idea is that I've set up {disfmarker} I've reviewed all of the um the points of discussion from the beginning, and used that as a criteria of evaluation for the um uh for the current design uh th or the plan, and uh so we can review that. Uh I think it's gonna end up being sort of elementary because we're sort we're in n we're not gonna probably use it to change anything but {disfmarker} Doesn't seem like it's going, does itProject Manager: Oh there it is.Marketing: Yeah, okay great. Uh and I'm gonna write up our results on the board, so this'll be a way for us to go through and decide if we're um {disfmarker} sort of review where we stand with it. Okay, so um {disfmarker} So to sort of b bring together two things, sort of design goals and also the market research that we had, uh when we rate this, one is v high in in succeeding or fitting to our original aim and seven is

What was the discussion about the button when talking about changes in the current design

The button was red with a width of three centimeters and a half. As for the function, it could be used as a confirm button for the LCD screen and a power button if the user held it for around two seconds.

good ideaMarketing: Think could be, yeah.Industrial Designer: I think um the the focus of it a lot was the PowerPoint as opposed to the to the whiteboard,Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: Yeah, yeah.Industrial Designer: and I think that m um is also does you know hinder us and things I think.Marketing: Yeah. Yeah, yeah.Industrial Designer: It will be cooler to have the whiteboard rather than the the PowerPoint,Marketing: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: or maybe the whiteboard and the PowerPoint in the same place,Marketing: Yeah. Yeah, yeah.Industrial Designer: you know in the centre of the {disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: Yeah, because the PowerPoint was provided to us while we had time to prepare, whereas I can imagine if I'd been encouraged to use Paintbrush, for example, or whatever, I would've actually used it,Project Manager: Alright.Marketing: um'ca you know, just'cause that's sorta how we {disfmarker} what we were set up to to use while we had our time.Project Manager: Okay uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: I think that there were too many PowerPoints in the meetings {vocalsound}.'Cause the plug-in and the plugging spent {disfmarker} we spent a lot of time doing that.Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: Yeah.Marketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: And a lot of the information on the PowerPoints, I don't think, you know, we needed to actually {disfmarker} it could have, we could have gone through it {gap} verbally,Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: No, not quite.Industrial Designer: especially my slides,Marketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: I felt that they just you know {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: Okay.Industrial Designer: as opposed to having to present them.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: What about the digital pens, did you find them easy enough to useIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yep clunky.Marketing: {vocalsound} Sure, yeah.User Interface: Oh they're a bit clunky.Industrial Designer: Agreed. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: Yeah. {vocalsound} Yep.Project Manager: Clunky, okay.Marketing: Mm.Project Manager: Um {vocalsound} {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Having to tick it cost prohibitive,User Interface: I think I'd probably increase the cost.Marketing: It would cost more than plastic.User Interface: We've only got {vocalsound} like what, ten cents left so {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: yeah.Marketing: Okay, logo, we've got it in there, haven't weIndustrial Designer: Yep.Project Manager: Yep. Gonna have that on the side, aren't we, like there or somethingMarketing: Huh. And um it's within budget, yep. It is, isn't itUser Interface: Yeah.Marketing: Okay, so we can say then that uh out of a possible {disfmarker} or what would be our goal hereProject Manager: Out of forty nine, I guess.Marketing: Yeah, out of forty nine with with zero being the highest. We are at uh two, seven, eight, ten, fifteen point five.Project Manager:'S pretty good.Marketing: So it's pretty good. Translates to something like about approximately seventy two percent efficacy of our original goal. RightProject Manager: Uh yeah.Marketing: I think'cause if you turn that into a hundred it would be aboutProject Manager: Twice that,Marketing: about thirty one,Project Manager: about thirty one.Marketing: and then invert that, it's {disfmarker}Project Manager: So yeah ab well yeah about sixty nine, seventy percent yeah.Marketing: Oh right, about seventy, yeah seventy percent.Project Manager: It's pretty good.Marketing: Okay, good. That was just a little formality for us to go through.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: Yep, oh hundred pound pen. {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Sorry {vocalsound} {vocalsound} alright.Project Manager: Nobody saw it, honestly. {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} No.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} The cameras did. {vocalsound}Marketing: Hmm.Project Manager: Is that you all have all finished, or {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah that's that's me. I did have one other um one other frame I thought, I mean I I d not knowing how we would deal with this information, I thought okay in theory this kind of a process would be about refining our design, revisiting our original goals.Project Manager: Uh-huh.Marketing: It's Project Manager: Okay we all all set Right. Well this is the uh final detailed design meeting. Um we're gonna discuss the look and feel design, the user interface design, and we're gonna evaluate the product. And the end result of this meeting has to be a decision on the details of this remote control, like absolute final decision, um and then I'm gonna have to specify the final design in the final report. So um just from from last time to recap, we said we were gonna have a snowman shaped remote control with no L_C_D_ display, no need for talk-back, it was hopefully gonna be kinetic power and battery uh with rubber buttons, maybe backlighting the buttons with some internal L_E_D_s to shine through the casing, um hopefully a jog-dial, and incorporating the slogan somewhere as well. Anything I've missedIndustrial Designer: No.Project Manager: Okay um so uh if you want to present your prototype go ahead.User Interface: Uh-oh. This is it {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Ninja Homer, made in Japan. {vocalsound}User Interface: Um, there are a few changes we've made.Project Manager: Okay.User Interface: Um, well look at the expense sheet, and uh it turned to be quite a lot expensive to have open up and have lots of buttons and stuff inside,Project Manager: Mm. Mm-hmm.User Interface: so instead we've um {disfmarker} this is gonna be an L_C_D_ screen, um just a a very very basic one, very small um with access to the menu through the the scroll wheel and uh confirm um button.Marketing: Mm'kay.User Interface: Uh, apart from that, it's just pretty much the same as we discussed last time.Industrial Designer: And there isn't uh d it doesn't open up to the advanced functions the advanced functions are still hidden from you, but they're hidden in the sense that um they're not in use.Marketing: Where are theyIndustrial Designer: Um they're in the L_C_D_ panel and the jog-dialMarketing: Ah, right.Industrial Designer: Okay'cause {disfmarker}Project Manager: So w what kind of thing uh is gonna be {disfmarker}Marketing: Great.User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: The L_C_D_ panel just displays um functionally what you're doing. If you're using an advanced function right, like um c brightness, contrast, whatever, it will just say {disfmarker}Marketing: Right. Okay.Industrial Designer: You know it's like it only has four columns, it's a very simple L_C_D_ like, whereas many {disfmarker} the minimum amount we need that the user will automatically know like this is brightness or this is contrast.Marketing: Right.Project Manager: Mm-hmm. Okay cool.Marketing: Right,'kay.Industrial Designer: It might even be one, a bit more complex L_C_D_ panel with pictures like maybe the sun or the, you know, the the symbols of the various functions.Marketing: OkayProject Manager: Oh right okay.Marketing: Mm-hmm, and what is this hereProject Manager: Cool.Industrial Designer: That's a number pad.Marketing: Okay so the number pad is {disfmarker}'Kay, great.Project Manager: Where are we gonna have the sloganIndustrial Designer: Um they're al along this {disfmarker}User Interface: You know, just like right inside there.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: Okay cool.Industrial Designer: You have this space here, and then you have this thing on the side as well, or at the bottom.Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer:'Cause slogans are usually quite small, right,Project Manager: Okay.Industrial Designer: they're not like hugeMarketing: Mm.Industrial Designer: so they're sMarketing: Yep.Industrial Designer: Say a button's aboutProject Manager: Okay.Marketing: Looks good.Industrial Designer: say a button's about this size, right, so you would still have plenty of space for a slogan, say even for that.Marketing: Yep. {vocalsound} Mm-hmm.Project Manager: So if this isn't to scale, what kind of dimensions are you thinking about hereUser Interface: {vocalsound} Well {vocalsound} we want the other buttons to I'll try and do it as quick as possible.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: Um, this is um {disfmarker} I'll just go over your head if that's okay.Project Manager: Yeah.Industrial Designer: I don't think you need the power,Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: so {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Marketing: What's thatIndustrial Designer: No, that's okay that's okay.Marketing: I don't need the PowerPointIndustrial Designer: No, the power cord itself.Marketing: Oh {gap} course,Industrial Designer: Yeah, so then you have a bit more freedom to {disfmarker}Marketing: yeah that's true. Let me get that. A bit more.Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Okay,Industrial Designer: You you still have your blue fingers.Marketing: so what this is is a set-up for us to um uh use a kind of a like a {disfmarker}User Interface: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} Is itIndustrial Designer: You killed a monster.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: The idea is that I've set up {disfmarker} I've reviewed all of the um the points of discussion from the beginning, and used that as a criteria of evaluation for the um uh for the current design uh th or the plan, and uh so we can review that. Uh I think it's gonna end up being sort of elementary because we're sort we're in n we're not gonna probably use it to change anything but {disfmarker} Doesn't seem like it's going, does itProject Manager: Oh there it is.Marketing: Yeah, okay great. Uh and I'm gonna write up our results on the board, so this'll be a way for us to go through and decide if we're um {disfmarker} sort of review where we stand with it. Okay, so um {disfmarker} So to sort of b bring together two things, sort of design goals and also the market research that we had, uh when we rate this, one is v high in in succeeding or fitting to our original aim and seven is

What was the discussion about the jog dial's function when talking about changes in the current design

The jog dial can be used to control volume, contrast, brightness, channels, auxiliary inputs, color, sharpness, sound, audio, left-right balance, and pre-programmed sound modes.

about these four points and {vocalsound} {disfmarker} or not those four points, my four points, sorry, forgotten that. {vocalsound} You got a different uh {disfmarker}Marketing: {gap}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {gap}Marketing: Yep. I like those printer cables that just have the two little butterfly clips like that.Project Manager: Oh yeah, they're good aren't they, yeah.Marketing: It's really quick.Project Manager: Right okay,Marketing: To use.Project Manager: um yeah here we are. Uh as a note we'll do this alphabetically. {vocalsound} Um do you wanna start AndrewMarketing: Sure, um so what is it you're asking of me nowProject Manager: I don't know, just um your opinion on those four those four points really and how we used them.Marketing: Or sort of our work on setting this up.Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: Yeah. Well, is it {disfmarker} uh okay I'll just go through your system then. The the room uh is fairly institutional, but um the main thing is, I think um our use of this space is more just to report on things as opposed to be creative and constructive and it would probably help to um have l sort of a cumulative effect of we have ideas and we come back and then the ideas are still in discussion, you know,Project Manager: Uh-huh.Marketing: as in other words this this room is sort of a centre point of creativity, whereas in reality as we've gone through this, it's not really the centre point of creativity, it's more just aProject Manager: Well d do you feel though that that you were able to have quite a lot of creative input into the thingMarketing: d debating {disfmarker} Yeah, yeah but that's just the thing is the quest in terms of the the first point there, the room, it feels as though the creativity goes on when we leave, good ideaMarketing: Think could be, yeah.Industrial Designer: I think um the the focus of it a lot was the PowerPoint as opposed to the to the whiteboard,Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: Yeah, yeah.Industrial Designer: and I think that m um is also does you know hinder us and things I think.Marketing: Yeah. Yeah, yeah.Industrial Designer: It will be cooler to have the whiteboard rather than the the PowerPoint,Marketing: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: or maybe the whiteboard and the PowerPoint in the same place,Marketing: Yeah. Yeah, yeah.Industrial Designer: you know in the centre of the {disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: Yeah, because the PowerPoint was provided to us while we had time to prepare, whereas I can imagine if I'd been encouraged to use Paintbrush, for example, or whatever, I would've actually used it,Project Manager: Alright.Marketing: um'ca you know, just'cause that's sorta how we {disfmarker} what we were set up to to use while we had our time.Project Manager: Okay uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: I think that there were too many PowerPoints in the meetings {vocalsound}.'Cause the plug-in and the plugging spent {disfmarker} we spent a lot of time doing that.Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: Yeah.Marketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: And a lot of the information on the PowerPoints, I don't think, you know, we needed to actually {disfmarker} it could have, we could have gone through it {gap} verbally,Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: No, not quite.Industrial Designer: especially my slides,Marketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: I felt that they just you know {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: Okay.Industrial Designer: as opposed to having to present them.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: What about the digital pens, did you find them easy enough to useIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yep clunky.Marketing: {vocalsound} Sure, yeah.User Interface: Oh they're a bit clunky.Industrial Designer: Agreed. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: Yeah. {vocalsound} Yep.Project Manager: Clunky, okay.Marketing: Mm.Project Manager: Um {vocalsound} {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Having to tick it you know how we used the whiteboard, the digital pens, the projector, stuff like that Um did anybody think anything was like really useful,Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: anything was pretty un f {vocalsound} unsupportiveMarketing: I think the whiteboard, for me, is the kind of thing I would use all the time, but it's um not quite as useful as to us as it could have been, maybe just in the way that we we use it, in the sense that once we have an idea out there or while work was going on in between meetings, that could have been up on a board uh you know as opposed to in like in text.Project Manager: Mm.Marketing: Um, and then we could then keep our ideas sort of building on that. I know that people who design cars and you know in aviation they quite often just have a simple like fibreglass prototype and it's completely you know um abs abstract from the final product, but they use it as a kind of a context to sort of walk around and puzzle and and point and discussProject Manager: Mm-hmm. Yeah. And point at Yeah.Marketing: and and and in a way everybody's {disfmarker} as we discuss things in the {disfmarker} in theoretically and out of our notebooks, we're just {disfmarker} we're actually just each of us discussing something that's in each of our own minds. It wasn't until we had this here, you know,Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: like at one point I peeked across and looked at Craig's paper and I'm like, now I know what he's thinking'cause I saw his book.Project Manager: Ah.Marketing: But the b the b whiteboard could've actually been this kind of continuing um {disfmarker}Project Manager: So do you think producing a prototype earlier in the process woulda been a cost prohibitive,User Interface: I think I'd probably increase the cost.Marketing: It would cost more than plastic.User Interface: We've only got {vocalsound} like what, ten cents left so {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: yeah.Marketing: Okay, logo, we've got it in there, haven't weIndustrial Designer: Yep.Project Manager: Yep. Gonna have that on the side, aren't we, like there or somethingMarketing: Huh. And um it's within budget, yep. It is, isn't itUser Interface: Yeah.Marketing: Okay, so we can say then that uh out of a possible {disfmarker} or what would be our goal hereProject Manager: Out of forty nine, I guess.Marketing: Yeah, out of forty nine with with zero being the highest. We are at uh two, seven, eight, ten, fifteen point five.Project Manager:'S pretty good.Marketing: So it's pretty good. Translates to something like about approximately seventy two percent efficacy of our original goal. RightProject Manager: Uh yeah.Marketing: I think'cause if you turn that into a hundred it would be aboutProject Manager: Twice that,Marketing: about thirty one,Project Manager: about thirty one.Marketing: and then invert that, it's {disfmarker}Project Manager: So yeah ab well yeah about sixty nine, seventy percent yeah.Marketing: Oh right, about seventy, yeah seventy percent.Project Manager: It's pretty good.Marketing: Okay, good. That was just a little formality for us to go through.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: Yep, oh hundred pound pen. {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Sorry {vocalsound} {vocalsound} alright.Project Manager: Nobody saw it, honestly. {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} No.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} The cameras did. {vocalsound}Marketing: Hmm.Project Manager: Is that you all have all finished, or {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah that's that's me. I did have one other um one other frame I thought, I mean I I d not knowing how we would deal with this information, I thought okay in theory this kind of a process would be about refining our design, revisiting our original goals.Project Manager: Uh-huh.Marketing: It's think.Marketing: So {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: So still on the topic of room for creativity uh next up is Craig.User Interface: Um I agree with his point it's um it is quite a lot of fun t to go and then you have sort of hit the end then go right, gotta cut everything out'cause we don't have enough money.Project Manager: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Marketing: Yep.Industrial Designer: I think another point is that the meetings um are more brainstorming sessions than meetings,Marketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: so time is also a very s um strong factor, and structure.Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Because for a brainstorming meeting you want a structure that allows you to {disfmarker} allows ideas to get tossed, um to be evaluated, and to be reviewed, and to get feedback and come back.Project Manager: Mm.Marketing: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. {vocalsound} Yeah, yeah.Industrial Designer: And I guess that point about the room not being r very friendly to that, I think that's a very big thing,Marketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: and I think the fact that we're wearing these things restricts {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah, sure.Industrial Designer: I feel it'cause I wear m my glasses, right, and that but that irritates me rightProject Manager: Yeah.Industrial Designer: it it it does actually you know affect how, w whether you feel comfortable to communicate.Marketing: Yeah. New creativity.Industrial Designer: I feel like I'm hiding behind the equipment, rather than the equipment is helping me, and you know.Marketing: Yep.Project Manager: So you think a more relaxed atmosphere would be more kind of conducive to creative thought or {disfmarker}Marketing: Right.Industrial Designer: Not not so much an atmosphere, the atmosphere is very relaxed, but the the gearProject Manager: Yeah, but actual environmentIndustrial Designer: yeah you know that creates boundaries to that umMarketing: Mm.Industrial Designer: and and the time the time given also

Summarize the discussion about evaluating the project.

Project Manager wanted the members to evaluate the whole process of the project, such as the system, leadership, teamwork, and tools given. The meeting system was considered creative yet inefficient as the early designs were found generally out of budget. As for leadership, the process was a bit too structured. As for teamwork, additional communications like the quick talk could further prompt the current system. Besides, the tools given were criticized for the isolation of each's tasks and thoughts.

about these four points and {vocalsound} {disfmarker} or not those four points, my four points, sorry, forgotten that. {vocalsound} You got a different uh {disfmarker}Marketing: {gap}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {gap}Marketing: Yep. I like those printer cables that just have the two little butterfly clips like that.Project Manager: Oh yeah, they're good aren't they, yeah.Marketing: It's really quick.Project Manager: Right okay,Marketing: To use.Project Manager: um yeah here we are. Uh as a note we'll do this alphabetically. {vocalsound} Um do you wanna start AndrewMarketing: Sure, um so what is it you're asking of me nowProject Manager: I don't know, just um your opinion on those four those four points really and how we used them.Marketing: Or sort of our work on setting this up.Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: Yeah. Well, is it {disfmarker} uh okay I'll just go through your system then. The the room uh is fairly institutional, but um the main thing is, I think um our use of this space is more just to report on things as opposed to be creative and constructive and it would probably help to um have l sort of a cumulative effect of we have ideas and we come back and then the ideas are still in discussion, you know,Project Manager: Uh-huh.Marketing: as in other words this this room is sort of a centre point of creativity, whereas in reality as we've gone through this, it's not really the centre point of creativity, it's more just aProject Manager: Well d do you feel though that that you were able to have quite a lot of creative input into the thingMarketing: d debating {disfmarker} Yeah, yeah but that's just the thing is the quest in terms of the the first point there, the room, it feels as though the creativity goes on when we leave, good ideaMarketing: Think could be, yeah.Industrial Designer: I think um the the focus of it a lot was the PowerPoint as opposed to the to the whiteboard,Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: Yeah, yeah.Industrial Designer: and I think that m um is also does you know hinder us and things I think.Marketing: Yeah. Yeah, yeah.Industrial Designer: It will be cooler to have the whiteboard rather than the the PowerPoint,Marketing: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: or maybe the whiteboard and the PowerPoint in the same place,Marketing: Yeah. Yeah, yeah.Industrial Designer: you know in the centre of the {disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: Yeah, because the PowerPoint was provided to us while we had time to prepare, whereas I can imagine if I'd been encouraged to use Paintbrush, for example, or whatever, I would've actually used it,Project Manager: Alright.Marketing: um'ca you know, just'cause that's sorta how we {disfmarker} what we were set up to to use while we had our time.Project Manager: Okay uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: I think that there were too many PowerPoints in the meetings {vocalsound}.'Cause the plug-in and the plugging spent {disfmarker} we spent a lot of time doing that.Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: Yeah.Marketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: And a lot of the information on the PowerPoints, I don't think, you know, we needed to actually {disfmarker} it could have, we could have gone through it {gap} verbally,Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: No, not quite.Industrial Designer: especially my slides,Marketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: I felt that they just you know {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: Okay.Industrial Designer: as opposed to having to present them.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: What about the digital pens, did you find them easy enough to useIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yep clunky.Marketing: {vocalsound} Sure, yeah.User Interface: Oh they're a bit clunky.Industrial Designer: Agreed. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: Yeah. {vocalsound} Yep.Project Manager: Clunky, okay.Marketing: Mm.Project Manager: Um {vocalsound} {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Having to tick it you know how we used the whiteboard, the digital pens, the projector, stuff like that Um did anybody think anything was like really useful,Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: anything was pretty un f {vocalsound} unsupportiveMarketing: I think the whiteboard, for me, is the kind of thing I would use all the time, but it's um not quite as useful as to us as it could have been, maybe just in the way that we we use it, in the sense that once we have an idea out there or while work was going on in between meetings, that could have been up on a board uh you know as opposed to in like in text.Project Manager: Mm.Marketing: Um, and then we could then keep our ideas sort of building on that. I know that people who design cars and you know in aviation they quite often just have a simple like fibreglass prototype and it's completely you know um abs abstract from the final product, but they use it as a kind of a context to sort of walk around and puzzle and and point and discussProject Manager: Mm-hmm. Yeah. And point at Yeah.Marketing: and and and in a way everybody's {disfmarker} as we discuss things in the {disfmarker} in theoretically and out of our notebooks, we're just {disfmarker} we're actually just each of us discussing something that's in each of our own minds. It wasn't until we had this here, you know,Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: like at one point I peeked across and looked at Craig's paper and I'm like, now I know what he's thinking'cause I saw his book.Project Manager: Ah.Marketing: But the b the b whiteboard could've actually been this kind of continuing um {disfmarker}Project Manager: So do you think producing a prototype earlier in the process woulda been a cost prohibitive,User Interface: I think I'd probably increase the cost.Marketing: It would cost more than plastic.User Interface: We've only got {vocalsound} like what, ten cents left so {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: yeah.Marketing: Okay, logo, we've got it in there, haven't weIndustrial Designer: Yep.Project Manager: Yep. Gonna have that on the side, aren't we, like there or somethingMarketing: Huh. And um it's within budget, yep. It is, isn't itUser Interface: Yeah.Marketing: Okay, so we can say then that uh out of a possible {disfmarker} or what would be our goal hereProject Manager: Out of forty nine, I guess.Marketing: Yeah, out of forty nine with with zero being the highest. We are at uh two, seven, eight, ten, fifteen point five.Project Manager:'S pretty good.Marketing: So it's pretty good. Translates to something like about approximately seventy two percent efficacy of our original goal. RightProject Manager: Uh yeah.Marketing: I think'cause if you turn that into a hundred it would be aboutProject Manager: Twice that,Marketing: about thirty one,Project Manager: about thirty one.Marketing: and then invert that, it's {disfmarker}Project Manager: So yeah ab well yeah about sixty nine, seventy percent yeah.Marketing: Oh right, about seventy, yeah seventy percent.Project Manager: It's pretty good.Marketing: Okay, good. That was just a little formality for us to go through.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: Yep, oh hundred pound pen. {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Sorry {vocalsound} {vocalsound} alright.Project Manager: Nobody saw it, honestly. {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} No.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} The cameras did. {vocalsound}Marketing: Hmm.Project Manager: Is that you all have all finished, or {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah that's that's me. I did have one other um one other frame I thought, I mean I I d not knowing how we would deal with this information, I thought okay in theory this kind of a process would be about refining our design, revisiting our original goals.Project Manager: Uh-huh.Marketing: It's what are your summarising words about Play-DohIndustrial Designer: It's helpful to the creative process.Marketing: Huh.Industrial Designer: Um it engages all your senses not just your sight, but your sense of feel your sense of touch.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: Yep.Industrial Designer: And it helps you to understandMarketing: Taste. {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} dimension as well. I think that that's very helpful because it it starts to pop up,Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah.Industrial Designer: whereas on a piece of paper, on a computer, on a board, um even with a three D_ graphic thing it still, it requires a lot ofProject Manager: Yeah.Marketing: Mm-hmm, yep. Yeah.User Interface: YeahMarketing: Yeah.User Interface: it's not very tangible.Industrial Designer: yeah {disfmarker} tangible, that's a nice word.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Marketing: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm,Industrial Designer: It becomes tangible.Marketing: mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.Project Manager: Tangible. Okay uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Mm. I don't know if there's anything else we needed to discuss.Industrial Designer: Nope.Project Manager: That that's about it really. Just sit still I guess for a little while.Marketing: Do we retreat to our, to continue ourIndustrial Designer: I think we could probably do it here as long as we don't collaborate.Project Manager: Um {disfmarker}Marketing: r reporting or what iProject Manager: Well I dunno. Um I'm sure the little uh the little thing'll pop up any minute now.Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Can we turn off the microphonesProject Manager: Yeah, yeah if the meeting's over then yeah I guess so.Marketing: {vocalsound}

What did Marketing think about Project Manager's system when evaluating the project

Marketing thought Project Manager's system was fairly institutional with a central point of creativity, but the group ought to focus more on the stylish look and technology and make a proper consideration on the budget.

good ideaMarketing: Think could be, yeah.Industrial Designer: I think um the the focus of it a lot was the PowerPoint as opposed to the to the whiteboard,Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: Yeah, yeah.Industrial Designer: and I think that m um is also does you know hinder us and things I think.Marketing: Yeah. Yeah, yeah.Industrial Designer: It will be cooler to have the whiteboard rather than the the PowerPoint,Marketing: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: or maybe the whiteboard and the PowerPoint in the same place,Marketing: Yeah. Yeah, yeah.Industrial Designer: you know in the centre of the {disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: Yeah, because the PowerPoint was provided to us while we had time to prepare, whereas I can imagine if I'd been encouraged to use Paintbrush, for example, or whatever, I would've actually used it,Project Manager: Alright.Marketing: um'ca you know, just'cause that's sorta how we {disfmarker} what we were set up to to use while we had our time.Project Manager: Okay uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: I think that there were too many PowerPoints in the meetings {vocalsound}.'Cause the plug-in and the plugging spent {disfmarker} we spent a lot of time doing that.Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: Yeah.Marketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: And a lot of the information on the PowerPoints, I don't think, you know, we needed to actually {disfmarker} it could have, we could have gone through it {gap} verbally,Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: No, not quite.Industrial Designer: especially my slides,Marketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: I felt that they just you know {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: Okay.Industrial Designer: as opposed to having to present them.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: What about the digital pens, did you find them easy enough to useIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yep clunky.Marketing: {vocalsound} Sure, yeah.User Interface: Oh they're a bit clunky.Industrial Designer: Agreed. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: Yeah. {vocalsound} Yep.Project Manager: Clunky, okay.Marketing: Mm.Project Manager: Um {vocalsound} {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Having to tick it Project Manager: Okay we all all set Right. Well this is the uh final detailed design meeting. Um we're gonna discuss the look and feel design, the user interface design, and we're gonna evaluate the product. And the end result of this meeting has to be a decision on the details of this remote control, like absolute final decision, um and then I'm gonna have to specify the final design in the final report. So um just from from last time to recap, we said we were gonna have a snowman shaped remote control with no L_C_D_ display, no need for talk-back, it was hopefully gonna be kinetic power and battery uh with rubber buttons, maybe backlighting the buttons with some internal L_E_D_s to shine through the casing, um hopefully a jog-dial, and incorporating the slogan somewhere as well. Anything I've missedIndustrial Designer: No.Project Manager: Okay um so uh if you want to present your prototype go ahead.User Interface: Uh-oh. This is it {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Ninja Homer, made in Japan. {vocalsound}User Interface: Um, there are a few changes we've made.Project Manager: Okay.User Interface: Um, well look at the expense sheet, and uh it turned to be quite a lot expensive to have open up and have lots of buttons and stuff inside,Project Manager: Mm. Mm-hmm.User Interface: so instead we've um {disfmarker} this is gonna be an L_C_D_ screen, um just a a very very basic one, very small um with access to the menu through the the scroll wheel and uh confirm um button.Marketing: Mm'kay.User Interface: Uh, apart from that, it's just pretty much the same as we discussed last time.Industrial Designer: And there isn't uh d it doesn't open up to the advanced functions the advanced functions are still hidden from you, but they're hidden in the sense that cost prohibitive,User Interface: I think I'd probably increase the cost.Marketing: It would cost more than plastic.User Interface: We've only got {vocalsound} like what, ten cents left so {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: yeah.Marketing: Okay, logo, we've got it in there, haven't weIndustrial Designer: Yep.Project Manager: Yep. Gonna have that on the side, aren't we, like there or somethingMarketing: Huh. And um it's within budget, yep. It is, isn't itUser Interface: Yeah.Marketing: Okay, so we can say then that uh out of a possible {disfmarker} or what would be our goal hereProject Manager: Out of forty nine, I guess.Marketing: Yeah, out of forty nine with with zero being the highest. We are at uh two, seven, eight, ten, fifteen point five.Project Manager:'S pretty good.Marketing: So it's pretty good. Translates to something like about approximately seventy two percent efficacy of our original goal. RightProject Manager: Uh yeah.Marketing: I think'cause if you turn that into a hundred it would be aboutProject Manager: Twice that,Marketing: about thirty one,Project Manager: about thirty one.Marketing: and then invert that, it's {disfmarker}Project Manager: So yeah ab well yeah about sixty nine, seventy percent yeah.Marketing: Oh right, about seventy, yeah seventy percent.Project Manager: It's pretty good.Marketing: Okay, good. That was just a little formality for us to go through.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: Yep, oh hundred pound pen. {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Sorry {vocalsound} {vocalsound} alright.Project Manager: Nobody saw it, honestly. {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} No.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} The cameras did. {vocalsound}Marketing: Hmm.Project Manager: Is that you all have all finished, or {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah that's that's me. I did have one other um one other frame I thought, I mean I I d not knowing how we would deal with this information, I thought okay in theory this kind of a process would be about refining our design, revisiting our original goals.Project Manager: Uh-huh.Marketing: It's are we arriving at the number four Where does the number four come fromIndustrial Designer:'Cause that's one button by its the complexity of twelve buttons.Project Manager: Okay right,Industrial Designer: So we're just estimating that yeah it would be less.Project Manager: so we're writing down four. {vocalsound} Okay. How about these Are we wanting them in {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: No.Project Manager: no they're just {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yep.Project Manager: is everything gonna be plasticIndustrial Designer: Yep.Project Manager: Okay. So we're w w quite far over.User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Now we're gonna {disfmarker} something's gonna have to go. Um we're at sixteen point eight and {disfmarker}Marketing: Uh how mm-hmm {disfmarker} how are we going to achieve this high-end product if {disfmarker}Project Manager: Well we h something has to go to the tune of two point t three Euro,Marketing: We only have very sparse {disfmarker}Project Manager: so let me see, what are we {disfmarker} I mean {disfmarker}Marketing: Two point three Four point three noProject Manager: oh yes sorry, four point three. My maths is all out.User Interface: Well we could take out ones by making it single curved, just fill in those bits.Project Manager: Yeah.Industrial Designer: How much would that save usMarketing: And then where is the {disfmarker}Project Manager: How much would that save usIndustrial Designer: That will only save you one.User Interface: That is one.Industrial Designer: The other thing could be that um you could take away the L_C_D_ panel and the advanced chip together,Project Manager: One.Industrial Designer: um because when you do something on the T_V_, the T_V_ responds and reacts as well,Marketing: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: so the user could be looking at the T_V_ and pushing his thing so we may not need to {disfmarker}User Interface: That's fair enough, yeah.Industrial Designer: so when we scroll we need just some way to get the T_V_ to respond,Marketing: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: which I think is a technically doable thing so {disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay so {disfmarker}Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: So w what's our reviewed suggestionMarketing: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Um take away the L_C_ displayIndustrial Designer: Yep. And the advanced chip goes away as well.Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: To be replaced with aIndustrial Designer: Regular chip.Project Manager: regular chip.Industrial Designer: Yep. So what that means is that um {disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: {vocalsound} And so we've got point three to get rid of. Um and we ha where are the four {disfmarker} the four push buttons are where exactly nowIndustrial Designer: The twelve buttons that you see there {vocalsound}.Project Manager: Twelve buttons.User Interface: That's um one piece of rubber but it's gonna have twelve button things underneath so {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Functionally you're gonna have to intercept {disfmarker} So four is a good estimate for {disfmarker}Project Manager: Do you thinkIndustrial Designer: Yeah, so you can't actually cut {vocalsound} {disfmarker} It's like three times the number of buttons, four, eight, twelve.Project Manager: Like is is that one big button or is it twelve buttons,Industrial Designer: It {disfmarker} It needs to be more than one big button because if you open up your phone, underneath there's actually one button underneath, it's just that the panel itself is a single panel.Project Manager: how can it be something in betweenMarketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: Mm. OkayMarketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: well we have point three to get rid of somewhere.Industrial Designer: We just report that it has to be over budget {vocalsound},Project Manager: Mm.Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: or the colours, you could take away s colours for th for the buttons.Project Manager: No can do.Marketing: Yeah we could just go with um {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah wIndustrial Designer: Normal coloured buttons.Project Manager: Well do

What did Industrial Designer think of the project

Industrial Designer thought the meeting was not friendly to the brainstorming. The restriction was not about the atmosphere but related to the actual environment and the limited time for discussion. Besides, the interaction was structured, meaning each individual took charge of one particular task without enough collaboration between each other. Also, communication through email was inefficient.

about these four points and {vocalsound} {disfmarker} or not those four points, my four points, sorry, forgotten that. {vocalsound} You got a different uh {disfmarker}Marketing: {gap}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {gap}Marketing: Yep. I like those printer cables that just have the two little butterfly clips like that.Project Manager: Oh yeah, they're good aren't they, yeah.Marketing: It's really quick.Project Manager: Right okay,Marketing: To use.Project Manager: um yeah here we are. Uh as a note we'll do this alphabetically. {vocalsound} Um do you wanna start AndrewMarketing: Sure, um so what is it you're asking of me nowProject Manager: I don't know, just um your opinion on those four those four points really and how we used them.Marketing: Or sort of our work on setting this up.Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: Yeah. Well, is it {disfmarker} uh okay I'll just go through your system then. The the room uh is fairly institutional, but um the main thing is, I think um our use of this space is more just to report on things as opposed to be creative and constructive and it would probably help to um have l sort of a cumulative effect of we have ideas and we come back and then the ideas are still in discussion, you know,Project Manager: Uh-huh.Marketing: as in other words this this room is sort of a centre point of creativity, whereas in reality as we've gone through this, it's not really the centre point of creativity, it's more just aProject Manager: Well d do you feel though that that you were able to have quite a lot of creative input into the thingMarketing: d debating {disfmarker} Yeah, yeah but that's just the thing is the quest in terms of the the first point there, the room, it feels as though the creativity goes on when we leave, good ideaMarketing: Think could be, yeah.Industrial Designer: I think um the the focus of it a lot was the PowerPoint as opposed to the to the whiteboard,Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: Yeah, yeah.Industrial Designer: and I think that m um is also does you know hinder us and things I think.Marketing: Yeah. Yeah, yeah.Industrial Designer: It will be cooler to have the whiteboard rather than the the PowerPoint,Marketing: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: or maybe the whiteboard and the PowerPoint in the same place,Marketing: Yeah. Yeah, yeah.Industrial Designer: you know in the centre of the {disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: Yeah, because the PowerPoint was provided to us while we had time to prepare, whereas I can imagine if I'd been encouraged to use Paintbrush, for example, or whatever, I would've actually used it,Project Manager: Alright.Marketing: um'ca you know, just'cause that's sorta how we {disfmarker} what we were set up to to use while we had our time.Project Manager: Okay uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: I think that there were too many PowerPoints in the meetings {vocalsound}.'Cause the plug-in and the plugging spent {disfmarker} we spent a lot of time doing that.Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: Mm-hmm.User Interface: Yeah.Marketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: And a lot of the information on the PowerPoints, I don't think, you know, we needed to actually {disfmarker} it could have, we could have gone through it {gap} verbally,Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: No, not quite.Industrial Designer: especially my slides,Marketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: I felt that they just you know {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: Okay.Industrial Designer: as opposed to having to present them.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: What about the digital pens, did you find them easy enough to useIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yep clunky.Marketing: {vocalsound} Sure, yeah.User Interface: Oh they're a bit clunky.Industrial Designer: Agreed. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: Yeah. {vocalsound} Yep.Project Manager: Clunky, okay.Marketing: Mm.Project Manager: Um {vocalsound} {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Having to tick it Project Manager: Okay we all all set Right. Well this is the uh final detailed design meeting. Um we're gonna discuss the look and feel design, the user interface design, and we're gonna evaluate the product. And the end result of this meeting has to be a decision on the details of this remote control, like absolute final decision, um and then I'm gonna have to specify the final design in the final report. So um just from from last time to recap, we said we were gonna have a snowman shaped remote control with no L_C_D_ display, no need for talk-back, it was hopefully gonna be kinetic power and battery uh with rubber buttons, maybe backlighting the buttons with some internal L_E_D_s to shine through the casing, um hopefully a jog-dial, and incorporating the slogan somewhere as well. Anything I've missedIndustrial Designer: No.Project Manager: Okay um so uh if you want to present your prototype go ahead.User Interface: Uh-oh. This is it {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Ninja Homer, made in Japan. {vocalsound}User Interface: Um, there are a few changes we've made.Project Manager: Okay.User Interface: Um, well look at the expense sheet, and uh it turned to be quite a lot expensive to have open up and have lots of buttons and stuff inside,Project Manager: Mm. Mm-hmm.User Interface: so instead we've um {disfmarker} this is gonna be an L_C_D_ screen, um just a a very very basic one, very small um with access to the menu through the the scroll wheel and uh confirm um button.Marketing: Mm'kay.User Interface: Uh, apart from that, it's just pretty much the same as we discussed last time.Industrial Designer: And there isn't uh d it doesn't open up to the advanced functions the advanced functions are still hidden from you, but they're hidden in the sense that you know how we used the whiteboard, the digital pens, the projector, stuff like that Um did anybody think anything was like really useful,Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: anything was pretty un f {vocalsound} unsupportiveMarketing: I think the whiteboard, for me, is the kind of thing I would use all the time, but it's um not quite as useful as to us as it could have been, maybe just in the way that we we use it, in the sense that once we have an idea out there or while work was going on in between meetings, that could have been up on a board uh you know as opposed to in like in text.Project Manager: Mm.Marketing: Um, and then we could then keep our ideas sort of building on that. I know that people who design cars and you know in aviation they quite often just have a simple like fibreglass prototype and it's completely you know um abs abstract from the final product, but they use it as a kind of a context to sort of walk around and puzzle and and point and discussProject Manager: Mm-hmm. Yeah. And point at Yeah.Marketing: and and and in a way everybody's {disfmarker} as we discuss things in the {disfmarker} in theoretically and out of our notebooks, we're just {disfmarker} we're actually just each of us discussing something that's in each of our own minds. It wasn't until we had this here, you know,Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: like at one point I peeked across and looked at Craig's paper and I'm like, now I know what he's thinking'cause I saw his book.Project Manager: Ah.Marketing: But the b the b whiteboard could've actually been this kind of continuing um {disfmarker}Project Manager: So do you think producing a prototype earlier in the process woulda been a cost prohibitive,User Interface: I think I'd probably increase the cost.Marketing: It would cost more than plastic.User Interface: We've only got {vocalsound} like what, ten cents left so {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: yeah.Marketing: Okay, logo, we've got it in there, haven't weIndustrial Designer: Yep.Project Manager: Yep. Gonna have that on the side, aren't we, like there or somethingMarketing: Huh. And um it's within budget, yep. It is, isn't itUser Interface: Yeah.Marketing: Okay, so we can say then that uh out of a possible {disfmarker} or what would be our goal hereProject Manager: Out of forty nine, I guess.Marketing: Yeah, out of forty nine with with zero being the highest. We are at uh two, seven, eight, ten, fifteen point five.Project Manager:'S pretty good.Marketing: So it's pretty good. Translates to something like about approximately seventy two percent efficacy of our original goal. RightProject Manager: Uh yeah.Marketing: I think'cause if you turn that into a hundred it would be aboutProject Manager: Twice that,Marketing: about thirty one,Project Manager: about thirty one.Marketing: and then invert that, it's {disfmarker}Project Manager: So yeah ab well yeah about sixty nine, seventy percent yeah.Marketing: Oh right, about seventy, yeah seventy percent.Project Manager: It's pretty good.Marketing: Okay, good. That was just a little formality for us to go through.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: Yep, oh hundred pound pen. {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Sorry {vocalsound} {vocalsound} alright.Project Manager: Nobody saw it, honestly. {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} No.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} The cameras did. {vocalsound}Marketing: Hmm.Project Manager: Is that you all have all finished, or {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah that's that's me. I did have one other um one other frame I thought, I mean I I d not knowing how we would deal with this information, I thought okay in theory this kind of a process would be about refining our design, revisiting our original goals.Project Manager: Uh-huh.Marketing: It's

Summarize the whole meeting.

This was the final meeting of detailed design. To start with, Project Manager introduced the planned scheme of the meeting, followed by User Interface and Industrial Designer indicating the possible changes into an LCD screen and a jog-dial. After that, the group continued to talk about the slogan, the button size, and the button color. However, considering the budget, they consistently abandoned some of the designs. These included kinetic power, rubber material, LCD panel, advanced chip, and special colored buttons. Marketing moved the discussion to evaluate the current design through collectively rating from one to seven. The final part was the project evaluation, including the system, leadership, teamwork, and tools given.

of the buttons, you know each of them could have a number and then also a function written next to it, so you're basically pressing {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {gap} that also goes back to the original design when we saw those two, and there was the one on the left hand side which had all like the double functions and stuff which kind of looked too busy and had too much on it, so.Marketing: Right.Project Manager: Okay, well.User Interface: Well, if we're trying to keep it slee sleek and sexy as well, have you seen those remotes where kind of um the bottom bit slides down, so there's kind of um everything else revealedMarketing: Okay.Project Manager: Mm.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: So y Ah That's a very good idea.User Interface: So you don't use it that much, you don't have to see it all the time. But it's all there if you need it.Industrial Designer: That is that is a good idea actually.Marketing: Yeah, yeah.Industrial Designer: Sor sort of a second.Project Manager: So you keep um {disfmarker}User Interface: Like a hidden panel.Project Manager: Right we've got five minutes before we wind up this meeting, so I've been told. I don't know if you've got the same.Industrial Designer: Okay. Uh not quite, but I guess {gap}.Project Manager: Okay. So so keep um keep detailed functions um hidden at the back.Industrial Designer: Keep the other buttons but hide them away.User Interface: Hmm. And that'll be better for the older generation as well'cause, well my dad doesn't like anything that you've got to kinda flick through a menu,Project Manager: Ah.User Interface: but he can pretty much read a button if it's displayed properly.Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: So {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: So um {vocalsound} we're gonna have to have to work out what's gonna be on high-tech design. That that might be the market that we're we're looking for. And we could maybe think about using speech recogniti recognition as a way to find the remote control if it's lost in a room, rather than sort of um having it to {vocalsound} speech recognition to change the channels.'Cause there's a problem with that in that the television makes noise, so it could end up talking to itself and changing its channel.Industrial Designer: Mm.Marketing: {vocalsound} Okay um, and that's the end of the slide show. That's it. Cool.Project Manager: What was that last wee bit thereUser Interface: Do {gap} a lot of um {disfmarker}Marketing: Um about speech recognitionProject Manager: Speech recognition,User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: But that was only for young people that preferred it, older people didn't.Marketing: Youn young people pref Yeah, they s they said that they'd be interested in a remote control which offered that possibility and as you go up through the age groups, people got less and less interested in sort of a a remote control that you could talk to, so.Industrial Designer: No what I maybe think is um it seems the technology would be quite advanced for that and they might end up costing more than our twelve fifty budget for for the speech recognition. Um.Project Manager: Well that's right.Marketing: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.Industrial Designer: And possibly the thing about the about the remote being lost we could have {disfmarker} You know with your mobile phone, you lose that and you can ring it. Maybe we can have some kind of sensor which is kept somewhere where you can {disfmarker} {gap} some kind of buzzer system between the two. So you can press a button which is always kept in one placeMarketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: and then it maybe buzzes to somewhere up and down, volume, things like that. Um there's also a chip inside the remote which does all the computer type things. And then the sender, which um is usually, I've found, an infra-red device which sends a signal to the actual television. Um and the last part is receiver which is important in the system but is not actually part of the remote itself, because that's obviously found in the television. {gap}. Um I'm gonna have to actually draw on the board because uh it was a little tricky on PowerPoint to get this working, so. I'll just go through there. S um um do we have a cloth to wipe this down with, or Oh I'll jProject Manager: Uh there's the rubber on the right, I think.User Interface: I think it's that little {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Oh I see. Oh okay. I'll get rid of the bear. $Project Manager: {gap} it's magic. {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Okay that's great. Okay, so we start off with a um battery suppl Uh no, a power supply which we'd probably get {disfmarker} it's probably gonna be the battery. Um we then have a particular button, which may be {disfmarker} {gap} that's obviously there's lots and lots of different buttons. Um but this is how the basic system works. Um that sends {gap} after you press that that sends the message to the chip, which um then sends {disfmarker} It sort of interprets which button you've pressed and then sends the appropriate message to the sender. {vocalsound} Um. So that's {gap}. That's the remote in itself, that's the components of the remote and how they work together. So this is the uh user interface. Um this is the chip itself, which then {gap}, and that's the that's the infra-red sender. And then on the we can have that as a selling point for the product,User Interface: Mm-hmm.Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: something that's quick and simple. So,User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: sounds good.User Interface: And that wouldn't put off the kind of older generation either,'cause everyone can whistle or clap, and they wouldn't have to be kind of scared of this new technology.Project Manager: Well, so maybe a clap rather than a whistle would be {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: On the basis that if we've got {disfmarker} if we're catering to the whole age range, you want something that's easy to do,Industrial Designer: {gap}Project Manager: now something that doesn't like whis uhMarketing: No not everyone can whistle, can they, though {vocalsound}Project Manager: Well I I I don't know. Well If you think that more people can whistle than clap then that's fine, then go for that option,User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: but if {disfmarker} I would have thought that more people could clap rather than whistle,Marketing: No,Industrial Designer: I'd go more {disfmarker}Marketing: clapping, I think clapping,Industrial Designer: Yeah, f more for clap.Marketing: yeah. Yeah.Project Manager: so uh so clap option.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: Okay.User Interface:'Kay we've already decided that we don't need a teletext button, haven't weProject Manager: Uh. Ef effectively that's what the that's what they're saying,User Interface: Is that one of the {disfmarker}Project Manager: that uh if uh if people are now using the internet then you don't need teletext,User Interface: Hmm.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: so so take out teletext.Marketing: {vocalsound} Taking out teletext, okay.Industrial Designer: Did we decide on having the ten um the ten numbersUser Interface: Right.Industrial Designer: and then the the little digit next to it which kind of enabled you to put them together.User Interface: Yeah, I think so, so zero to nine.Marketing: Mm. I think nowadays you can just get ones where it gives you a sort of a second or two to press another number,Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: so you can press any two and it'll sort of put them together.Industrial Designer: Okay, ten numbersUser Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: and then some kind of device to allow uh {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: I'll put delay to allow um multiple numbers.Marketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Or multiple digits.Marketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Did we decide anything about um the other functions As in setting the audio and tuning it and stuff like that You had an had an idea about the menuMarketing: Uh {vocalsound} we could possibly put an L_ {disfmarker} a sort of a L_C_D_ menu in, but that again is probably an expense that {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: But just thinking um people probably {disfmarker} I mean you don't have {disfmarker} you only have to probably tune in the T_V_ once, but you have to be able to tune it that once.Marketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: So and if finally the T_V_ breaks, you get a new one, you're gonna have to be able to tune it. You can't really avoid that.Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: No.Industrial Designer: Except the new digital markets which do it by themselves.User Interface: Hmm.Project Manager: But the but that's relying on the television market changing to an automaticIndustrial Designer: So that'll be in {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Yes.Project Manager: and if it is at the moment, that's fine. But at the moment it's not, so it seems to me that you have to have a device that caters,'cause otherwise it would make it {disfmarker} uh your device would become inoperable, or only operable in certain circumstancesIndustrial Designer: Yeah. Yeah.Project Manager: and the idea is to have an international marketIndustrial Designer: Yeah yeah.User Interface: Mm.Project Manager: which is {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: And it's also m it's the the product we've

Summarize the presentation and discussion about the design of the remote.

User Interface preferred a more user-friendly remote with nice big buttons and limited number of buttons. She also gave her suggestions about the symbol and colour of the remote. Then, they discussed the number of buttons on the remote.

is the red.Industrial Designer: {gap}User Interface: Hmm.Industrial Designer: Would you be able to get rid of the the extra buttons here, the the sort of circular section, because that seems to be for a video as well. So we could dispense with that little bit as well and just get it down to just the numbers and the volume. PossiblyUser Interface: What do you mean by the circular sectionIndustrial Designer: J yeah yeah yeah j yeahUser Interface: Like all of that bottom bitProject Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: just this little bit is that {disfmarker} I think that's still um a video remote part,User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: so maybe we could get rid of that as well.User Interface: Yeah. And I don't really think that you need nine numbers.Project Manager: Well b uh wUser Interface: I mean how often do you use seven, eight and nine I think just one to six and then channel up and down should be enough.Project Manager: Well th the on the {disfmarker} {vocalsound}User Interface: Like how often do you hit nineProject Manager: Well uh for for general television purposes obviously you have channels one to five at this point in time,Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: and we'd have to have some room for uh future such channels. But but {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: It's just people are used to seeing that, so if we didn't have them then they might think it's {disfmarker} {gap}Project Manager: But, well possibly but the the other thing is that with um the current expansion of uh channels uh in the process of taking place, certainly the button up and down, but uh I mean {vocalsound} how many channels do we have to um {disfmarker} actual television channels do we have to uh prepare for I would have thought that uh {gap} it's forever expanding to get to fifty five and the higher numbers {disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Whatever.User Interface: Yeah.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay. Okay. Limit the number of buttons, user friendly.User Interface: But I suppose nine's not really excessive.Industrial Designer: I suppose with nine you've got the the like the last one which makes the tenth means you {disfmarker} uh it's like uh multiples you can put them together so you can make any number.User Interface: I suppose it does make a good pattern.Industrial Designer: So with that we'd kind of by-pass any problems with {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah Well that's true, yeah,Industrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: you could get fifty by five and a zero or whatever, that that makes sense.Industrial Designer: Yeah.'Cause that facilitates having all the numbers you could ever need.Project Manager: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Um.Project Manager: Does.Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: So w so what was the circular thing that you were {disfmarker}User Interface: Okay. Um I think that's just for a video, so we wouldn't need any of that at all.Industrial Designer: So we could get it down to whatProject Manager: If it's just for T_V_, which is what it is at the moment.User Interface: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: So we get to {disfmarker} How many buttons have we got We've just got ten, eleven twelve th We got fourteen that we need. I guess.Marketing: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: Um which isn't really too many. That'll be quite easy to make a user guide for a fourteen button remote.Project Manager: Mm-hmm. Well we've we've got um that it's remote for T_V_ only otherwise project would become too complex with uh which would endanger the time to market {vocalsound} was one of the considerations.Industrial Designer:'Kay.Project Manager: I'm {disfmarker} I don't know d did you have that information behind the marketing,Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: or was I meant to give you up and down, volume, things like that. Um there's also a chip inside the remote which does all the computer type things. And then the sender, which um is usually, I've found, an infra-red device which sends a signal to the actual television. Um and the last part is receiver which is important in the system but is not actually part of the remote itself, because that's obviously found in the television. {gap}. Um I'm gonna have to actually draw on the board because uh it was a little tricky on PowerPoint to get this working, so. I'll just go through there. S um um do we have a cloth to wipe this down with, or Oh I'll jProject Manager: Uh there's the rubber on the right, I think.User Interface: I think it's that little {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Oh I see. Oh okay. I'll get rid of the bear. $Project Manager: {gap} it's magic. {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Okay that's great. Okay, so we start off with a um battery suppl Uh no, a power supply which we'd probably get {disfmarker} it's probably gonna be the battery. Um we then have a particular button, which may be {disfmarker} {gap} that's obviously there's lots and lots of different buttons. Um but this is how the basic system works. Um that sends {gap} after you press that that sends the message to the chip, which um then sends {disfmarker} It sort of interprets which button you've pressed and then sends the appropriate message to the sender. {vocalsound} Um. So that's {gap}. That's the remote in itself, that's the components of the remote and how they work together. So this is the uh user interface. Um this is the chip itself, which then {gap}, and that's the that's the infra-red sender. And then on the that informationMarketing: Um I'm not sure. I had I've had some market information,Project Manager: Right.Marketing: but not from the company, no.Project Manager: Right, okay, so basically time to market seems to be important, therefore speed of delivery.Industrial Designer:'Kay.Project Manager: We've only got about another four hours left. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {gap}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: Okay, so is everyone happy with thatIndustrial Designer: Ah yes yes, that seems good.Marketing: Okay.User Interface: Right well that's the end of my presentation.Marketing:'Kay. I'm gonna pull this off. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: I think if you just give it a second to maybe catch up.Project Manager: Yeah, I think she said twenty seconds to um {disfmarker}Marketing: Uh-huh.Industrial Designer: I'm sure we'll have by the end of today.Marketing: Okay. {vocalsound} I'll give it another go. Yeah, there we go. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {gap}Marketing: Right, we've done some research into the functional requirements that people want out of their remote control. And first off we should state that th the remote control's for controlling the T_V_ and um how do people use it We asked them sort of which buttons were useful for them. Um how d how does a remote control look and feel for them, and what improvements would would they like to remote control. And we did that by sort of giving them a questionnaire that we'd prepared and asking them to fill in the answers. And three quarters of them found that remote controls are ugly and that a sort of even higher proportion would spend more for a sort of s uh a fancier remote control And that of all the buttons on the remote control, the sort of setting buttons for sort of the picture picture and brightness and the audio settings, um they weren't used very often at all. People concentrated on the gives you a sort of a second or two to press another number,Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: so you can press any two and it'll sort of put them together.Industrial Designer: Okay, ten numbersUser Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: and then some kind of device to allow uh {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: I'll put delay to allow um multiple numbers.Marketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Or multiple digits.Marketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Did we decide anything about um the other functions As in setting the audio and tuning it and stuff like that You had an had an idea about the menuMarketing: Uh {vocalsound} we could possibly put an L_ {disfmarker} a sort of a L_C_D_ menu in, but that again is probably an expense that {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: But just thinking um people probably {disfmarker} I mean you don't have {disfmarker} you only have to probably tune in the T_V_ once, but you have to be able to tune it that once.Marketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: So and if finally the T_V_ breaks, you get a new one, you're gonna have to be able to tune it. You can't really avoid that.Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: No.Industrial Designer: Except the new digital markets which do it by themselves.User Interface: Hmm.Project Manager: But the but that's relying on the television market changing to an automaticIndustrial Designer: So that'll be in {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Yes.Project Manager: and if it is at the moment, that's fine. But at the moment it's not, so it seems to me that you have to have a device that caters,'cause otherwise it would make it {disfmarker} uh your device would become inoperable, or only operable in certain circumstancesIndustrial Designer: Yeah. Yeah.Project Manager: and the idea is to have an international marketIndustrial Designer: Yeah yeah.User Interface: Mm.Project Manager: which is {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: And it's also m it's the the product we've

What did Project Manager think of the symbol and colour of the remote when discussing the design of the remote

User Interface suggested that they could design the symbols and colours for the remote. However, the Project Manager reminded the team that they should put their own logo and colour scheme on the remote, which means that they could not design those things by themselves.

up and down, volume, things like that. Um there's also a chip inside the remote which does all the computer type things. And then the sender, which um is usually, I've found, an infra-red device which sends a signal to the actual television. Um and the last part is receiver which is important in the system but is not actually part of the remote itself, because that's obviously found in the television. {gap}. Um I'm gonna have to actually draw on the board because uh it was a little tricky on PowerPoint to get this working, so. I'll just go through there. S um um do we have a cloth to wipe this down with, or Oh I'll jProject Manager: Uh there's the rubber on the right, I think.User Interface: I think it's that little {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Oh I see. Oh okay. I'll get rid of the bear. $Project Manager: {gap} it's magic. {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Okay that's great. Okay, so we start off with a um battery suppl Uh no, a power supply which we'd probably get {disfmarker} it's probably gonna be the battery. Um we then have a particular button, which may be {disfmarker} {gap} that's obviously there's lots and lots of different buttons. Um but this is how the basic system works. Um that sends {gap} after you press that that sends the message to the chip, which um then sends {disfmarker} It sort of interprets which button you've pressed and then sends the appropriate message to the sender. {vocalsound} Um. So that's {gap}. That's the remote in itself, that's the components of the remote and how they work together. So this is the uh user interface. Um this is the chip itself, which then {gap}, and that's the that's the infra-red sender. And then on the to get to fifty five and the higher numbers {disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Whatever.User Interface: Yeah.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay. Okay. Limit the number of buttons, user friendly.User Interface: But I suppose nine's not really excessive.Industrial Designer: I suppose with nine you've got the the like the last one which makes the tenth means you {disfmarker} uh it's like uh multiples you can put them together so you can make any number.User Interface: I suppose it does make a good pattern.Industrial Designer: So with that we'd kind of by-pass any problems with {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah Well that's true, yeah,Industrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: you could get fifty by five and a zero or whatever, that that makes sense.Industrial Designer: Yeah.'Cause that facilitates having all the numbers you could ever need.Project Manager: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Um.Project Manager: Does.Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: So w so what was the circular thing that you were {disfmarker}User Interface: Okay. Um I think that's just for a video, so we wouldn't need any of that at all.Industrial Designer: So we could get it down to whatProject Manager: If it's just for T_V_, which is what it is at the moment.User Interface: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: So we get to {disfmarker} How many buttons have we got We've just got ten, eleven twelve th We got fourteen that we need. I guess.Marketing: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: Um which isn't really too many. That'll be quite easy to make a user guide for a fourteen button remote.Project Manager: Mm-hmm. Well we've we've got um that it's remote for T_V_ only otherwise project would become too complex with uh which would endanger the time to market {vocalsound} was one of the considerations.Industrial Designer:'Kay.Project Manager: I'm {disfmarker} I don't know d did you have that information behind the marketing,Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: or was I meant to give you high-tech design. That that might be the market that we're we're looking for. And we could maybe think about using speech recogniti recognition as a way to find the remote control if it's lost in a room, rather than sort of um having it to {vocalsound} speech recognition to change the channels.'Cause there's a problem with that in that the television makes noise, so it could end up talking to itself and changing its channel.Industrial Designer: Mm.Marketing: {vocalsound} Okay um, and that's the end of the slide show. That's it. Cool.Project Manager: What was that last wee bit thereUser Interface: Do {gap} a lot of um {disfmarker}Marketing: Um about speech recognitionProject Manager: Speech recognition,User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: But that was only for young people that preferred it, older people didn't.Marketing: Youn young people pref Yeah, they s they said that they'd be interested in a remote control which offered that possibility and as you go up through the age groups, people got less and less interested in sort of a a remote control that you could talk to, so.Industrial Designer: No what I maybe think is um it seems the technology would be quite advanced for that and they might end up costing more than our twelve fifty budget for for the speech recognition. Um.Project Manager: Well that's right.Marketing: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.Industrial Designer: And possibly the thing about the about the remote being lost we could have {disfmarker} You know with your mobile phone, you lose that and you can ring it. Maybe we can have some kind of sensor which is kept somewhere where you can {disfmarker} {gap} some kind of buzzer system between the two. So you can press a button which is always kept in one placeMarketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: and then it maybe buzzes to somewhere is the red.Industrial Designer: {gap}User Interface: Hmm.Industrial Designer: Would you be able to get rid of the the extra buttons here, the the sort of circular section, because that seems to be for a video as well. So we could dispense with that little bit as well and just get it down to just the numbers and the volume. PossiblyUser Interface: What do you mean by the circular sectionIndustrial Designer: J yeah yeah yeah j yeahUser Interface: Like all of that bottom bitProject Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: just this little bit is that {disfmarker} I think that's still um a video remote part,User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: so maybe we could get rid of that as well.User Interface: Yeah. And I don't really think that you need nine numbers.Project Manager: Well b uh wUser Interface: I mean how often do you use seven, eight and nine I think just one to six and then channel up and down should be enough.Project Manager: Well th the on the {disfmarker} {vocalsound}User Interface: Like how often do you hit nineProject Manager: Well uh for for general television purposes obviously you have channels one to five at this point in time,Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: and we'd have to have some room for uh future such channels. But but {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: It's just people are used to seeing that, so if we didn't have them then they might think it's {disfmarker} {gap}Project Manager: But, well possibly but the the other thing is that with um the current expansion of uh channels uh in the process of taking place, certainly the button up and down, but uh I mean {vocalsound} how many channels do we have to um {disfmarker} actual television channels do we have to uh prepare for I would have thought that uh {gap} it's forever expanding channel buttons and the volume buttons and the power buttons. Uh we also asked them about speech recognition uh for remote control. And young people were quite receptive to this, but as soon as we got sort of over about into a thirty five to forty age {disfmarker} forty five age group and older, people people weren't quite so keen on speech recognition. There's a lot more th there's a lot lot more older people who didn't know whether they wanted it or not as well. Um we also asked what frustrated people about remote controls and the number one frustration was that the remote was lost somewhere else in the room and that they couldn't find it. And the second second biggest frustration what that if they got a new remote control, it was difficult to learn um all the buttons and all the functions, and to find your way around it. {vocalsound} Okay, so {disfmarker} My personal preferences from the marketing is that we need to come up with some {vocalsound} sort of sleek sort of good looking high high-tech {disfmarker} A design which looks high-tech, basically. Um and that we should come up with fewer buttons than most of the controls on the market, and we should sort of concentrate on the channels and sort of power, and also volume and that sort of thing, as as Louisa said. Um we could maybe come up with a menu, a sort of a an L_C_D_ menu for other functions on the remote control. That's worth thinking about. Um and maybe we could think about speech recognition as well, because um sort of young people are perhaps the ones that are gonna buy buy our new product if we aim it at sort of you know sort of a

What is the decision of the discussion about the number of buttons on the remote

The team agreed that there should be 17 buttons on the remote, including number 0 to 9, volume up and down, mute, channel up and down, stand-by and power buttons. Besides the buttons of brightness and contrast should be put on the back of the remote.

up and down, volume, things like that. Um there's also a chip inside the remote which does all the computer type things. And then the sender, which um is usually, I've found, an infra-red device which sends a signal to the actual television. Um and the last part is receiver which is important in the system but is not actually part of the remote itself, because that's obviously found in the television. {gap}. Um I'm gonna have to actually draw on the board because uh it was a little tricky on PowerPoint to get this working, so. I'll just go through there. S um um do we have a cloth to wipe this down with, or Oh I'll jProject Manager: Uh there's the rubber on the right, I think.User Interface: I think it's that little {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Oh I see. Oh okay. I'll get rid of the bear. $Project Manager: {gap} it's magic. {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Okay that's great. Okay, so we start off with a um battery suppl Uh no, a power supply which we'd probably get {disfmarker} it's probably gonna be the battery. Um we then have a particular button, which may be {disfmarker} {gap} that's obviously there's lots and lots of different buttons. Um but this is how the basic system works. Um that sends {gap} after you press that that sends the message to the chip, which um then sends {disfmarker} It sort of interprets which button you've pressed and then sends the appropriate message to the sender. {vocalsound} Um. So that's {gap}. That's the remote in itself, that's the components of the remote and how they work together. So this is the uh user interface. Um this is the chip itself, which then {gap}, and that's the that's the infra-red sender. And then on the of the buttons, you know each of them could have a number and then also a function written next to it, so you're basically pressing {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {gap} that also goes back to the original design when we saw those two, and there was the one on the left hand side which had all like the double functions and stuff which kind of looked too busy and had too much on it, so.Marketing: Right.Project Manager: Okay, well.User Interface: Well, if we're trying to keep it slee sleek and sexy as well, have you seen those remotes where kind of um the bottom bit slides down, so there's kind of um everything else revealedMarketing: Okay.Project Manager: Mm.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: So y Ah That's a very good idea.User Interface: So you don't use it that much, you don't have to see it all the time. But it's all there if you need it.Industrial Designer: That is that is a good idea actually.Marketing: Yeah, yeah.Industrial Designer: Sor sort of a second.Project Manager: So you keep um {disfmarker}User Interface: Like a hidden panel.Project Manager: Right we've got five minutes before we wind up this meeting, so I've been told. I don't know if you've got the same.Industrial Designer: Okay. Uh not quite, but I guess {gap}.Project Manager: Okay. So so keep um keep detailed functions um hidden at the back.Industrial Designer: Keep the other buttons but hide them away.User Interface: Hmm. And that'll be better for the older generation as well'cause, well my dad doesn't like anything that you've got to kinda flick through a menu,Project Manager: Ah.User Interface: but he can pretty much read a button if it's displayed properly.Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: So {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: So um {vocalsound} we're gonna have to have to work out what's gonna be on high-tech design. That that might be the market that we're we're looking for. And we could maybe think about using speech recogniti recognition as a way to find the remote control if it's lost in a room, rather than sort of um having it to {vocalsound} speech recognition to change the channels.'Cause there's a problem with that in that the television makes noise, so it could end up talking to itself and changing its channel.Industrial Designer: Mm.Marketing: {vocalsound} Okay um, and that's the end of the slide show. That's it. Cool.Project Manager: What was that last wee bit thereUser Interface: Do {gap} a lot of um {disfmarker}Marketing: Um about speech recognitionProject Manager: Speech recognition,User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: But that was only for young people that preferred it, older people didn't.Marketing: Youn young people pref Yeah, they s they said that they'd be interested in a remote control which offered that possibility and as you go up through the age groups, people got less and less interested in sort of a a remote control that you could talk to, so.Industrial Designer: No what I maybe think is um it seems the technology would be quite advanced for that and they might end up costing more than our twelve fifty budget for for the speech recognition. Um.Project Manager: Well that's right.Marketing: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.Industrial Designer: And possibly the thing about the about the remote being lost we could have {disfmarker} You know with your mobile phone, you lose that and you can ring it. Maybe we can have some kind of sensor which is kept somewhere where you can {disfmarker} {gap} some kind of buzzer system between the two. So you can press a button which is always kept in one placeMarketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: and then it maybe buzzes to somewhere that informationMarketing: Um I'm not sure. I had I've had some market information,Project Manager: Right.Marketing: but not from the company, no.Project Manager: Right, okay, so basically time to market seems to be important, therefore speed of delivery.Industrial Designer:'Kay.Project Manager: We've only got about another four hours left. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {gap}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: Okay, so is everyone happy with thatIndustrial Designer: Ah yes yes, that seems good.Marketing: Okay.User Interface: Right well that's the end of my presentation.Marketing:'Kay. I'm gonna pull this off. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: I think if you just give it a second to maybe catch up.Project Manager: Yeah, I think she said twenty seconds to um {disfmarker}Marketing: Uh-huh.Industrial Designer: I'm sure we'll have by the end of today.Marketing: Okay. {vocalsound} I'll give it another go. Yeah, there we go. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {gap}Marketing: Right, we've done some research into the functional requirements that people want out of their remote control. And first off we should state that th the remote control's for controlling the T_V_ and um how do people use it We asked them sort of which buttons were useful for them. Um how d how does a remote control look and feel for them, and what improvements would would they like to remote control. And we did that by sort of giving them a questionnaire that we'd prepared and asking them to fill in the answers. And three quarters of them found that remote controls are ugly and that a sort of even higher proportion would spend more for a sort of s uh a fancier remote control And that of all the buttons on the remote control, the sort of setting buttons for sort of the picture picture and brightness and the audio settings, um they weren't used very often at all. People concentrated on the else, wherever the remote actually is.Marketing: Uh-huh. Yeah. Yeah, we'd have t that would mean we'd have to put two products together as well,Industrial Designer: That is true, yes.Marketing: which which again would probably be a bit expensive, but {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Hmm.User Interface: There's key rings um that you kind of whistle at or clap at, I can't remember, and then they whistle back, or something like that.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: Sounds reasonable.User Interface: That'd probably be really simple,Marketing: Yeah.User Interface: they're cheap.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: Yeah. So {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: So I guess it'd be something we could like attach to the {disfmarker} or like the same technology could be put inside the inside the remote.Project Manager: Well if you're trying to avoid having a second product'cause obviously you could have a second product that gave you the right pitch which would set the remote off to say here I am sort of thing, you know without sound recognition. But if you {disfmarker} I know. Um I was gonna say a sharp noise, you know a clapping of hand or whatever. {vocalsound} You'd want to try and av just have the one product that if {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah. Yeah if we if we could have it in the actual remote like everything in one one device.Marketing: Mm-hmm. Yeah.Project Manager: Yeah. Um I dunno um talking about vo I mean obviously if you've got voice recognition then you can do it in that way because it'll recognise the voice and you can give it a command, a set command whatever that happened to be.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: But you've then got the point if if you're not going with uh voice recognition then {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {gap} you could have an option to turn it off. Or {disfmarker}Marketing: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: Perhaps,

Summarize the presentation about the customer's functional requirements of the remote and the team's discussion about it.

According to the research of Marketing, three quarters of the customers thought that their remotes are ugly. People only concentrated on the channel buttons, the volume buttons and the power buttons, and other buttons on the remote were seldom pressed. Many customers found it frustrating when their remotes were lost somewhere else in the room and they couldn't find them. Besides, it was difficult for people to learn all the functions on the remote. Then the team discussed the idea of a speech recognition system for the remote.

up and down, volume, things like that. Um there's also a chip inside the remote which does all the computer type things. And then the sender, which um is usually, I've found, an infra-red device which sends a signal to the actual television. Um and the last part is receiver which is important in the system but is not actually part of the remote itself, because that's obviously found in the television. {gap}. Um I'm gonna have to actually draw on the board because uh it was a little tricky on PowerPoint to get this working, so. I'll just go through there. S um um do we have a cloth to wipe this down with, or Oh I'll jProject Manager: Uh there's the rubber on the right, I think.User Interface: I think it's that little {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Oh I see. Oh okay. I'll get rid of the bear. $Project Manager: {gap} it's magic. {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Okay that's great. Okay, so we start off with a um battery suppl Uh no, a power supply which we'd probably get {disfmarker} it's probably gonna be the battery. Um we then have a particular button, which may be {disfmarker} {gap} that's obviously there's lots and lots of different buttons. Um but this is how the basic system works. Um that sends {gap} after you press that that sends the message to the chip, which um then sends {disfmarker} It sort of interprets which button you've pressed and then sends the appropriate message to the sender. {vocalsound} Um. So that's {gap}. That's the remote in itself, that's the components of the remote and how they work together. So this is the uh user interface. Um this is the chip itself, which then {gap}, and that's the that's the infra-red sender. And then on the is the red.Industrial Designer: {gap}User Interface: Hmm.Industrial Designer: Would you be able to get rid of the the extra buttons here, the the sort of circular section, because that seems to be for a video as well. So we could dispense with that little bit as well and just get it down to just the numbers and the volume. PossiblyUser Interface: What do you mean by the circular sectionIndustrial Designer: J yeah yeah yeah j yeahUser Interface: Like all of that bottom bitProject Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: just this little bit is that {disfmarker} I think that's still um a video remote part,User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: so maybe we could get rid of that as well.User Interface: Yeah. And I don't really think that you need nine numbers.Project Manager: Well b uh wUser Interface: I mean how often do you use seven, eight and nine I think just one to six and then channel up and down should be enough.Project Manager: Well th the on the {disfmarker} {vocalsound}User Interface: Like how often do you hit nineProject Manager: Well uh for for general television purposes obviously you have channels one to five at this point in time,Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: and we'd have to have some room for uh future such channels. But but {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: It's just people are used to seeing that, so if we didn't have them then they might think it's {disfmarker} {gap}Project Manager: But, well possibly but the the other thing is that with um the current expansion of uh channels uh in the process of taking place, certainly the button up and down, but uh I mean {vocalsound} how many channels do we have to um {disfmarker} actual television channels do we have to uh prepare for I would have thought that uh {gap} it's forever expanding to get to fifty five and the higher numbers {disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Whatever.User Interface: Yeah.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay. Okay. Limit the number of buttons, user friendly.User Interface: But I suppose nine's not really excessive.Industrial Designer: I suppose with nine you've got the the like the last one which makes the tenth means you {disfmarker} uh it's like uh multiples you can put them together so you can make any number.User Interface: I suppose it does make a good pattern.Industrial Designer: So with that we'd kind of by-pass any problems with {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah Well that's true, yeah,Industrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: you could get fifty by five and a zero or whatever, that that makes sense.Industrial Designer: Yeah.'Cause that facilitates having all the numbers you could ever need.Project Manager: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Um.Project Manager: Does.Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: So w so what was the circular thing that you were {disfmarker}User Interface: Okay. Um I think that's just for a video, so we wouldn't need any of that at all.Industrial Designer: So we could get it down to whatProject Manager: If it's just for T_V_, which is what it is at the moment.User Interface: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: So we get to {disfmarker} How many buttons have we got We've just got ten, eleven twelve th We got fourteen that we need. I guess.Marketing: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: Um which isn't really too many. That'll be quite easy to make a user guide for a fourteen button remote.Project Manager: Mm-hmm. Well we've we've got um that it's remote for T_V_ only otherwise project would become too complex with uh which would endanger the time to market {vocalsound} was one of the considerations.Industrial Designer:'Kay.Project Manager: I'm {disfmarker} I don't know d did you have that information behind the marketing,Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: or was I meant to give you we can have that as a selling point for the product,User Interface: Mm-hmm.Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: something that's quick and simple. So,User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: sounds good.User Interface: And that wouldn't put off the kind of older generation either,'cause everyone can whistle or clap, and they wouldn't have to be kind of scared of this new technology.Project Manager: Well, so maybe a clap rather than a whistle would be {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: On the basis that if we've got {disfmarker} if we're catering to the whole age range, you want something that's easy to do,Industrial Designer: {gap}Project Manager: now something that doesn't like whis uhMarketing: No not everyone can whistle, can they, though {vocalsound}Project Manager: Well I I I don't know. Well If you think that more people can whistle than clap then that's fine, then go for that option,User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: but if {disfmarker} I would have thought that more people could clap rather than whistle,Marketing: No,Industrial Designer: I'd go more {disfmarker}Marketing: clapping, I think clapping,Industrial Designer: Yeah, f more for clap.Marketing: yeah. Yeah.Project Manager: so uh so clap option.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: Okay.User Interface:'Kay we've already decided that we don't need a teletext button, haven't weProject Manager: Uh. Ef effectively that's what the that's what they're saying,User Interface: Is that one of the {disfmarker}Project Manager: that uh if uh if people are now using the internet then you don't need teletext,User Interface: Hmm.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: so so take out teletext.Marketing: {vocalsound} Taking out teletext, okay.Industrial Designer: Did we decide on having the ten um the ten numbersUser Interface: Right.Industrial Designer: and then the the little digit next to it which kind of enabled you to put them together.User Interface: Yeah, I think so, so zero to nine.Marketing: Mm. I think nowadays you can just get ones where it high-tech design. That that might be the market that we're we're looking for. And we could maybe think about using speech recogniti recognition as a way to find the remote control if it's lost in a room, rather than sort of um having it to {vocalsound} speech recognition to change the channels.'Cause there's a problem with that in that the television makes noise, so it could end up talking to itself and changing its channel.Industrial Designer: Mm.Marketing: {vocalsound} Okay um, and that's the end of the slide show. That's it. Cool.Project Manager: What was that last wee bit thereUser Interface: Do {gap} a lot of um {disfmarker}Marketing: Um about speech recognitionProject Manager: Speech recognition,User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: But that was only for young people that preferred it, older people didn't.Marketing: Youn young people pref Yeah, they s they said that they'd be interested in a remote control which offered that possibility and as you go up through the age groups, people got less and less interested in sort of a a remote control that you could talk to, so.Industrial Designer: No what I maybe think is um it seems the technology would be quite advanced for that and they might end up costing more than our twelve fifty budget for for the speech recognition. Um.Project Manager: Well that's right.Marketing: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.Industrial Designer: And possibly the thing about the about the remote being lost we could have {disfmarker} You know with your mobile phone, you lose that and you can ring it. Maybe we can have some kind of sensor which is kept somewhere where you can {disfmarker} {gap} some kind of buzzer system between the two. So you can press a button which is always kept in one placeMarketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: and then it maybe buzzes to somewhere

What did Marketing suggest about the functions of the remote

Marketing suggested that the remote should be good looking and high-tech. And they should concentrate on the functions of changing channels and volumes. Besides, they could also think about using speech recognition as a way for people to find the remote control if it's lost in a room.

is the red.Industrial Designer: {gap}User Interface: Hmm.Industrial Designer: Would you be able to get rid of the the extra buttons here, the the sort of circular section, because that seems to be for a video as well. So we could dispense with that little bit as well and just get it down to just the numbers and the volume. PossiblyUser Interface: What do you mean by the circular sectionIndustrial Designer: J yeah yeah yeah j yeahUser Interface: Like all of that bottom bitProject Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: just this little bit is that {disfmarker} I think that's still um a video remote part,User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: so maybe we could get rid of that as well.User Interface: Yeah. And I don't really think that you need nine numbers.Project Manager: Well b uh wUser Interface: I mean how often do you use seven, eight and nine I think just one to six and then channel up and down should be enough.Project Manager: Well th the on the {disfmarker} {vocalsound}User Interface: Like how often do you hit nineProject Manager: Well uh for for general television purposes obviously you have channels one to five at this point in time,Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: and we'd have to have some room for uh future such channels. But but {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: It's just people are used to seeing that, so if we didn't have them then they might think it's {disfmarker} {gap}Project Manager: But, well possibly but the the other thing is that with um the current expansion of uh channels uh in the process of taking place, certainly the button up and down, but uh I mean {vocalsound} how many channels do we have to um {disfmarker} actual television channels do we have to uh prepare for I would have thought that uh {gap} it's forever expanding to get to fifty five and the higher numbers {disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Whatever.User Interface: Yeah.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay. Okay. Limit the number of buttons, user friendly.User Interface: But I suppose nine's not really excessive.Industrial Designer: I suppose with nine you've got the the like the last one which makes the tenth means you {disfmarker} uh it's like uh multiples you can put them together so you can make any number.User Interface: I suppose it does make a good pattern.Industrial Designer: So with that we'd kind of by-pass any problems with {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah Well that's true, yeah,Industrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: you could get fifty by five and a zero or whatever, that that makes sense.Industrial Designer: Yeah.'Cause that facilitates having all the numbers you could ever need.Project Manager: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Um.Project Manager: Does.Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: So w so what was the circular thing that you were {disfmarker}User Interface: Okay. Um I think that's just for a video, so we wouldn't need any of that at all.Industrial Designer: So we could get it down to whatProject Manager: If it's just for T_V_, which is what it is at the moment.User Interface: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: So we get to {disfmarker} How many buttons have we got We've just got ten, eleven twelve th We got fourteen that we need. I guess.Marketing: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: Um which isn't really too many. That'll be quite easy to make a user guide for a fourteen button remote.Project Manager: Mm-hmm. Well we've we've got um that it's remote for T_V_ only otherwise project would become too complex with uh which would endanger the time to market {vocalsound} was one of the considerations.Industrial Designer:'Kay.Project Manager: I'm {disfmarker} I don't know d did you have that information behind the marketing,Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: or was I meant to give you gives you a sort of a second or two to press another number,Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: so you can press any two and it'll sort of put them together.Industrial Designer: Okay, ten numbersUser Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: and then some kind of device to allow uh {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: I'll put delay to allow um multiple numbers.Marketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Or multiple digits.Marketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Did we decide anything about um the other functions As in setting the audio and tuning it and stuff like that You had an had an idea about the menuMarketing: Uh {vocalsound} we could possibly put an L_ {disfmarker} a sort of a L_C_D_ menu in, but that again is probably an expense that {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: But just thinking um people probably {disfmarker} I mean you don't have {disfmarker} you only have to probably tune in the T_V_ once, but you have to be able to tune it that once.Marketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: So and if finally the T_V_ breaks, you get a new one, you're gonna have to be able to tune it. You can't really avoid that.Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: No.Industrial Designer: Except the new digital markets which do it by themselves.User Interface: Hmm.Project Manager: But the but that's relying on the television market changing to an automaticIndustrial Designer: So that'll be in {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Yes.Project Manager: and if it is at the moment, that's fine. But at the moment it's not, so it seems to me that you have to have a device that caters,'cause otherwise it would make it {disfmarker} uh your device would become inoperable, or only operable in certain circumstancesIndustrial Designer: Yeah. Yeah.Project Manager: and the idea is to have an international marketIndustrial Designer: Yeah yeah.User Interface: Mm.Project Manager: which is {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: And it's also m it's the the product we've we can have that as a selling point for the product,User Interface: Mm-hmm.Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: something that's quick and simple. So,User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: sounds good.User Interface: And that wouldn't put off the kind of older generation either,'cause everyone can whistle or clap, and they wouldn't have to be kind of scared of this new technology.Project Manager: Well, so maybe a clap rather than a whistle would be {disfmarker} {vocalsound}Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: On the basis that if we've got {disfmarker} if we're catering to the whole age range, you want something that's easy to do,Industrial Designer: {gap}Project Manager: now something that doesn't like whis uhMarketing: No not everyone can whistle, can they, though {vocalsound}Project Manager: Well I I I don't know. Well If you think that more people can whistle than clap then that's fine, then go for that option,User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: but if {disfmarker} I would have thought that more people could clap rather than whistle,Marketing: No,Industrial Designer: I'd go more {disfmarker}Marketing: clapping, I think clapping,Industrial Designer: Yeah, f more for clap.Marketing: yeah. Yeah.Project Manager: so uh so clap option.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: Okay.User Interface:'Kay we've already decided that we don't need a teletext button, haven't weProject Manager: Uh. Ef effectively that's what the that's what they're saying,User Interface: Is that one of the {disfmarker}Project Manager: that uh if uh if people are now using the internet then you don't need teletext,User Interface: Hmm.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: so so take out teletext.Marketing: {vocalsound} Taking out teletext, okay.Industrial Designer: Did we decide on having the ten um the ten numbersUser Interface: Right.Industrial Designer: and then the the little digit next to it which kind of enabled you to put them together.User Interface: Yeah, I think so, so zero to nine.Marketing: Mm. I think nowadays you can just get ones where it over the other remotes. Um.Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: It would. But probably quick and simple is primary rather than added extras.Industrial Designer:'Kay.Project Manager: Added extras would be nice, but the primary consideration is to get the project finished within uh this short time window, which effectively now is sort of four hours.Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: So {disfmarker} and if {disfmarker} and we've gotta get to the end. Uh d d I think I think first and foremost we've gotta get to the end and then get to the end with um added extras if possible.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: So {disfmarker}Project Manager: {gap} Right okay, uh so I need to {disfmarker} Right. So I don't know how long we have left of our uh time. But we have to make the decisions on uh the remote control functionsMarketing: About five minutes.Project Manager: and how we were planning to proceed so that at the next uh meeting each person that's got a a a task to do is clear from this meeting what that task is.Industrial Designer: Yes.Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: We'll also know w when the next meeting isIndustrial Designer: Um. {vocalsound}Project Manager: I um {disfmarker} so we'll know how long we've got to complete that task. And then we can report back at the next meeting and say right okay yes, we've achieved this or we haven't achieved this, this is how far we've progressed. Does that make reasonable senseUser Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: Yes that seems right.User Interface: Yeah.Marketing: Okay, yeah.Project Manager: So we have to come effectively to the decision on the remote functions so that you can decide what you're gonna be doing. And if dur between the time of this meeting finishing and the next meeting starting, if you get any additional information that uh only you

What did Industrial Designer think about the idea of speech recognition when discussing the function of the remote

Industrial Designer thought that the technology would be quite advanced and they might end up costing more than 25 budgets for speech recognition.

up and down, volume, things like that. Um there's also a chip inside the remote which does all the computer type things. And then the sender, which um is usually, I've found, an infra-red device which sends a signal to the actual television. Um and the last part is receiver which is important in the system but is not actually part of the remote itself, because that's obviously found in the television. {gap}. Um I'm gonna have to actually draw on the board because uh it was a little tricky on PowerPoint to get this working, so. I'll just go through there. S um um do we have a cloth to wipe this down with, or Oh I'll jProject Manager: Uh there's the rubber on the right, I think.User Interface: I think it's that little {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Oh I see. Oh okay. I'll get rid of the bear. $Project Manager: {gap} it's magic. {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Okay that's great. Okay, so we start off with a um battery suppl Uh no, a power supply which we'd probably get {disfmarker} it's probably gonna be the battery. Um we then have a particular button, which may be {disfmarker} {gap} that's obviously there's lots and lots of different buttons. Um but this is how the basic system works. Um that sends {gap} after you press that that sends the message to the chip, which um then sends {disfmarker} It sort of interprets which button you've pressed and then sends the appropriate message to the sender. {vocalsound} Um. So that's {gap}. That's the remote in itself, that's the components of the remote and how they work together. So this is the uh user interface. Um this is the chip itself, which then {gap}, and that's the that's the infra-red sender. And then on the of the buttons, you know each of them could have a number and then also a function written next to it, so you're basically pressing {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: {gap} that also goes back to the original design when we saw those two, and there was the one on the left hand side which had all like the double functions and stuff which kind of looked too busy and had too much on it, so.Marketing: Right.Project Manager: Okay, well.User Interface: Well, if we're trying to keep it slee sleek and sexy as well, have you seen those remotes where kind of um the bottom bit slides down, so there's kind of um everything else revealedMarketing: Okay.Project Manager: Mm.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: So y Ah That's a very good idea.User Interface: So you don't use it that much, you don't have to see it all the time. But it's all there if you need it.Industrial Designer: That is that is a good idea actually.Marketing: Yeah, yeah.Industrial Designer: Sor sort of a second.Project Manager: So you keep um {disfmarker}User Interface: Like a hidden panel.Project Manager: Right we've got five minutes before we wind up this meeting, so I've been told. I don't know if you've got the same.Industrial Designer: Okay. Uh not quite, but I guess {gap}.Project Manager: Okay. So so keep um keep detailed functions um hidden at the back.Industrial Designer: Keep the other buttons but hide them away.User Interface: Hmm. And that'll be better for the older generation as well'cause, well my dad doesn't like anything that you've got to kinda flick through a menu,Project Manager: Ah.User Interface: but he can pretty much read a button if it's displayed properly.Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: So {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: So um {vocalsound} we're gonna have to have to work out what's gonna be on gives you a sort of a second or two to press another number,Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: so you can press any two and it'll sort of put them together.Industrial Designer: Okay, ten numbersUser Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: and then some kind of device to allow uh {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: I'll put delay to allow um multiple numbers.Marketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Or multiple digits.Marketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Did we decide anything about um the other functions As in setting the audio and tuning it and stuff like that You had an had an idea about the menuMarketing: Uh {vocalsound} we could possibly put an L_ {disfmarker} a sort of a L_C_D_ menu in, but that again is probably an expense that {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: But just thinking um people probably {disfmarker} I mean you don't have {disfmarker} you only have to probably tune in the T_V_ once, but you have to be able to tune it that once.Marketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: So and if finally the T_V_ breaks, you get a new one, you're gonna have to be able to tune it. You can't really avoid that.Marketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: No.Industrial Designer: Except the new digital markets which do it by themselves.User Interface: Hmm.Project Manager: But the but that's relying on the television market changing to an automaticIndustrial Designer: So that'll be in {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Yes.Project Manager: and if it is at the moment, that's fine. But at the moment it's not, so it seems to me that you have to have a device that caters,'cause otherwise it would make it {disfmarker} uh your device would become inoperable, or only operable in certain circumstancesIndustrial Designer: Yeah. Yeah.Project Manager: and the idea is to have an international marketIndustrial Designer: Yeah yeah.User Interface: Mm.Project Manager: which is {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: And it's also m it's the the product we've high-tech design. That that might be the market that we're we're looking for. And we could maybe think about using speech recogniti recognition as a way to find the remote control if it's lost in a room, rather than sort of um having it to {vocalsound} speech recognition to change the channels.'Cause there's a problem with that in that the television makes noise, so it could end up talking to itself and changing its channel.Industrial Designer: Mm.Marketing: {vocalsound} Okay um, and that's the end of the slide show. That's it. Cool.Project Manager: What was that last wee bit thereUser Interface: Do {gap} a lot of um {disfmarker}Marketing: Um about speech recognitionProject Manager: Speech recognition,User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: But that was only for young people that preferred it, older people didn't.Marketing: Youn young people pref Yeah, they s they said that they'd be interested in a remote control which offered that possibility and as you go up through the age groups, people got less and less interested in sort of a a remote control that you could talk to, so.Industrial Designer: No what I maybe think is um it seems the technology would be quite advanced for that and they might end up costing more than our twelve fifty budget for for the speech recognition. Um.Project Manager: Well that's right.Marketing: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.Industrial Designer: And possibly the thing about the about the remote being lost we could have {disfmarker} You know with your mobile phone, you lose that and you can ring it. Maybe we can have some kind of sensor which is kept somewhere where you can {disfmarker} {gap} some kind of buzzer system between the two. So you can press a button which is always kept in one placeMarketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: and then it maybe buzzes to somewhere separate thing we have on the on the television we have a a receiver. And the sender sends a message to the receiver.'Kay.Project Manager: So the the top bit's the power source, yes {gap}.Industrial Designer: Ah yes, that's the power source. Um. {gap} going on to personal preferences, I've said that battery seems the best option for the actual remote, just because of the size. You don't want a a cable attached to the remote otherwise it's not it's not really a remote. Um and then the sender,Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: and infra-red um has been used quite successfully. If the battery's on reasonable power, they always seem to work fairly well. You don't have to be point directly at the television itself.Project Manager: So the battery is the {disfmarker} in the sender.Industrial Designer: Um {disfmarker} Yes.'Kay and that's it for the moment.Marketing: Okay.Project Manager: Okay. So, now more design. {vocalsound}User Interface: Right. Thank you. Mine's not quite as complicated as all that.Project Manager: {vocalsound} That's what we like to hear. {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Did I press function Yeah.Project Manager: Is it control function ei Oh, th there you go.User Interface: Oh. Um. Okay so I'm gonna talk a bit about the technical functions design. I'm Louisa, the User Interface Designer, as you know. {vocalsound} Um so the m basic method of this is to send a signal from the remote to the television set, so that a desired function is performed. Um an example of the function could be to change the volume up or down, uh so obviously you need two different buttons for that. Um to change the channel, either by pressing the number that you want or by channel up or down. Um to switch the television on or off, maybe a standby button. Um here are

Summarize the whole meeting.

The Project Manager gave a brief review of the team's last meeting, then Industrial Designer, User Interface and Marketing gave their presentation each. Industrial Designer's presentation is about the components and system of the remote control. User Interface gave the presentation about the design of the remote. The team agreed that there should be 17 buttons on the front of the remote and two on the back. Marketing's presentation is about the research into the functional requirements that people want out of their remote control. The team agreed that they could add a clap-back function to the remote.

PowerPoints now or {disfmarker}User Interface: You know you could you could do it yourself actually.Project Manager: Oh.Industrial Designer: Did you send itProject Manager: Save it in the project documents.User Interface: Put it in Project Documents,Project Manager: Okay.User Interface: yeah.Project Manager: Mm-mm-mm. This oneUser Interface: Sure. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay.User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Okay. Great.User Interface: Okay. Um well, the function {vocalsound} of a remote control, as what uh we've been informed, is basically to send messages to the television set, for example, switch it on, switch it off, go to this channel, go to channel nine, turn the volume up, etcetera. Um some of the considerations is just um for example the what it needs to include it's the numbers, you know, zero to nine, so you can move to a channel, the power button on slash off, the channel going up and down, volume going up and down, and then mute, a mute function. And then functions for V_H_S_, D_V_D_, for example, play, rewind, fast-forward, stop, pause, enter. And enter would be for like, you know, the menus. {vocalsound} And then other menus for D_V_ as well as T_V_, whether that means like um we can go and decide the brightness of the screen, things like that, all the more complicated functions of menus.Project Manager: {gap}User Interface: And we can decide if that's what we want, {gap}, um if we want to include that on the remote, if that's something that would stay on the T_V_ itself, for example.Project Manager: Okay. Okay.User Interface: These are two examples. Um and you can see on the left, it's got a lot more buttons,Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: and I don't know if you can read it, but it says, step, go to, freeze, um slow, repeat, program, mute, and so those are some Interface: Right.Marketing: So we need up, down, and side-to-side buttons.Project Manager: For the menus.User Interface: Well, that could be {disfmarker} No you could just double up with like the channel or the volume buttons.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: That's true.User Interface: Channel is just up and down.Marketing: Yeah, okay. Okay, yeah.User Interface: And then add a {disfmarker}Project Manager: Something that looks mayb you know.Marketing: Such as, yeah, the one the one over there on the left the engineering centred one.Project Manager: Y right, right right right.User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: That oneUser Interface: So we just have it like {disfmarker} add a menu button then for the various things needed,Project Manager: Right.User Interface: including v voice recognition if we have any like settings for voice recognition nowProject Manager: In the middle perhaps.User Interface: included in the menu.Project Manager: Yep.Marketing: Ooh, I just got an idea for a design.Project Manager: {gap} good. Anybody have anything else they'd like to bring up in this meetingIndustrial Designer: I had something, but I forgot.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay. {gap} get out of here. Let's go back to the meeting closure then and see what we need to do next. Mm. Alright. After this meeting we're gonna be sent a questionnaire and summary again which we need to reply to that e-mail. And then we're gonna have lunch break. And after lunch thirty minutes of individual work time. Um I'm gonna put the minutes {disfmarker} I put the minutes for the first meeting already in the project documents folder, if you'd like to review them. And I'm gonna type up the minutes for this one as well. Um here's what we're each going to do. The I_D_ is going to work on the components concept, um U_I_D_ the user interface concept, and you're going to do some trend watching.'Kay. Specific instructions will be sent to you by your personal coach. And if anybody has anything they would like to add No Okay, well, this meeting is officially over. Thank you all. large on-off button, {vocalsound} demographically we're moving towards an older generation of people, so a large on-off button would probably be good.User Interface: {vocalsound} {gap}Project Manager: Hmm.Industrial Designer: Selection button for various entertainment devices, so you want something that will permit you to select the D_V_D_ player or the T_V_ or the stereo system. Um smart chip that perverts {disfmarker} uh that permits, sorry, universal application again, something that'll allow us to skip over between devices, and that's kinda it.Project Manager: {gap}Industrial Designer: Uh this is my fifty second design.User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Power source over here. We're gonna have a switch obviously between the power source and the rest of it, and you're gonna need the switch. Um extra bulb could just be for flashiness, um subcomponent which would be like a way of diverting the power to different parts of the the device. Um the chip and of course the infra-red bulb, so it can communicate with the various devices that it needs to talk to.Marketing: So what exactly we are looking at, is this like the front of the remoteIndustrial Designer: This is just like a rough schematic.Project Manager: So this would be the frontIndustrial Designer: So this is the internal workings.Project Manager: So the red would be the front of the remote though, rightMarketing: Oh okay.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: Okay.User Interface: Yeah, that's gonna be what's communicating with the T_V_, but the other bulb, I think, is good to just to indicate, I'm doing something, it's sort of like a reassurance.Project Manager: The l {vocalsound} the light up kind of {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah, so you don't have to stare at that infra-red,Marketing: Like that we know the battery's working.Project Manager: Yeah.Industrial Designer:'cause you know when the battery starts dying in your remote currently, you have to R_R_.Project Manager: Right. So we've simplified, we don't need all those um play, fast-forward, rewind,User Interface: Right, yeah.Project Manager: or no menu buttons.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: So we've pretty much pared it down to on-off, volume, mute, channel up and down, um the numbers {disfmarker} Yeah. {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Um can we go back to {disfmarker} I'm gonna look really quickly back at thoseUser Interface: Two examples.Project Manager: examples and see if there is anything.User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: Which one is yours, technical functions or functional requirementUser Interface: Oh, it's a {disfmarker} Yeah.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: Yeah, audi audio settings and screen settings, we need those like audio settings mono, stereo, pitch, screen settings like brightness, colour, or do we just want that accessed accessed from the television itselfProject Manager: The T_V_. I think that that's fine just for the T_V_. I mean how often does the average user need to do that kind of stuffUser Interface: Well, the other option is sort of like down at the bottom, like farther away, you just have this sort of box inset where it's like the buttons that you don't use as much, but occasionally you will use.Project Manager: Hmm.User Interface: and so it's like {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah,'cause we need to {disfmarker} we definitely need to have buttons for like sub-titles and things like that. It's'cause the foreign film market is expanding and stuff, and like on television like I know f k living in Los Angeles it's tons of Spanish network television if it has English sub-titles it's definitely helpful.Project Manager: Couldn't we do that all through one button, something, a menu button, that pops up with a menu on the T_V_ that says, you know, audio, video, whatever, language,User Interface: I don't {disfmarker} well, I don't know.Project Manager: you knowUser actually stare at that bulb and go, okay, when I push this button, is it workingProject Manager: Hmm. It'd probably be lighting up the key too,Marketing: Okay.Industrial Designer: We can skip that whole thing.Project Manager: rightIndustrial Designer: Yep.Project Manager:'Kay.User Interface: Yeah.Marketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: So you can put it in the dark. {vocalsound}Project Manager: The buttons.Marketing: Yeah, and that's good.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: We should make it glow in the dark. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah, definitely.'Kay nex R ReadyIndustrial Designer: Yeah, that's it.Project Manager:'Kay, any p'KayUser Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Mm'kay.Project Manager: Anything you wanna add for personal preferences though, you f you said already that we needed a large on-off button, you think. Anything elseIndustrial Designer: I think that that's a good idea, because you know that's one of the most important buttons.User Interface: Just {disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay.User Interface: Well, should it be larger buttons in general, you know like uh the examples that I had, they were swi quite small. So should we try and go for something that has l larger buttonsMarketing: I think we should. Like I think that would be in a as in {disfmarker} like in {disfmarker} for the design, sorry, um. I think we should definitely go with buttons that don't look like a normal remote,'cause most remotes have small square buttons,Project Manager: Mm.Marketing: I think we should do something like maybe bigger and round like bubbles.User Interface: Ovals. Yeah, yeah.Project Manager: Okay. Okay, let's talk about all of our {disfmarker} We'll come to decision later about all the components that we need to include, let's um wrap up this one, and {vocalsound} I'm gonna go back to my PowerPoint,'cause we need to discuss the new project requirements which you might've already seen flashed up on the screen a bit earlier. {vocalsound} Wait, come back. Alright. Sorry, let's

Summarize Marketing's presentation on functional requirements.

Marketing first shared the results of their lab tests. It was found that users preferred a fancier but yet simpler remote, and as a result, their product should be high-tech looking but also user-friendly. Since the research found that most users would only use ten percent of the buttons, they decided to only keep the most necessary ones on their remote. Users also claimed that remotes tend to be lost easily. Finally, since speech recognition was popular among users, the remote should have this function as well.

PowerPoints now or {disfmarker}User Interface: You know you could you could do it yourself actually.Project Manager: Oh.Industrial Designer: Did you send itProject Manager: Save it in the project documents.User Interface: Put it in Project Documents,Project Manager: Okay.User Interface: yeah.Project Manager: Mm-mm-mm. This oneUser Interface: Sure. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay.User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Okay. Great.User Interface: Okay. Um well, the function {vocalsound} of a remote control, as what uh we've been informed, is basically to send messages to the television set, for example, switch it on, switch it off, go to this channel, go to channel nine, turn the volume up, etcetera. Um some of the considerations is just um for example the what it needs to include it's the numbers, you know, zero to nine, so you can move to a channel, the power button on slash off, the channel going up and down, volume going up and down, and then mute, a mute function. And then functions for V_H_S_, D_V_D_, for example, play, rewind, fast-forward, stop, pause, enter. And enter would be for like, you know, the menus. {vocalsound} And then other menus for D_V_ as well as T_V_, whether that means like um we can go and decide the brightness of the screen, things like that, all the more complicated functions of menus.Project Manager: {gap}User Interface: And we can decide if that's what we want, {gap}, um if we want to include that on the remote, if that's something that would stay on the T_V_ itself, for example.Project Manager: Okay. Okay.User Interface: These are two examples. Um and you can see on the left, it's got a lot more buttons,Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: and I don't know if you can read it, but it says, step, go to, freeze, um slow, repeat, program, mute, and so those are some large on-off button, {vocalsound} demographically we're moving towards an older generation of people, so a large on-off button would probably be good.User Interface: {vocalsound} {gap}Project Manager: Hmm.Industrial Designer: Selection button for various entertainment devices, so you want something that will permit you to select the D_V_D_ player or the T_V_ or the stereo system. Um smart chip that perverts {disfmarker} uh that permits, sorry, universal application again, something that'll allow us to skip over between devices, and that's kinda it.Project Manager: {gap}Industrial Designer: Uh this is my fifty second design.User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Power source over here. We're gonna have a switch obviously between the power source and the rest of it, and you're gonna need the switch. Um extra bulb could just be for flashiness, um subcomponent which would be like a way of diverting the power to different parts of the the device. Um the chip and of course the infra-red bulb, so it can communicate with the various devices that it needs to talk to.Marketing: So what exactly we are looking at, is this like the front of the remoteIndustrial Designer: This is just like a rough schematic.Project Manager: So this would be the frontIndustrial Designer: So this is the internal workings.Project Manager: So the red would be the front of the remote though, rightMarketing: Oh okay.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: Okay.User Interface: Yeah, that's gonna be what's communicating with the T_V_, but the other bulb, I think, is good to just to indicate, I'm doing something, it's sort of like a reassurance.Project Manager: The l {vocalsound} the light up kind of {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah, so you don't have to stare at that infra-red,Marketing: Like that we know the battery's working.Project Manager: Yeah.Industrial Designer:'cause you know when the battery starts dying in your remote currently, you have to R_R_.Project Manager: Right. So we've simplified, we don't need all those um play, fast-forward, rewind,User Interface: Right, yeah.Project Manager: or no menu buttons.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: So we've pretty much pared it down to on-off, volume, mute, channel up and down, um the numbers {disfmarker} Yeah. {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Um can we go back to {disfmarker} I'm gonna look really quickly back at thoseUser Interface: Two examples.Project Manager: examples and see if there is anything.User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: Which one is yours, technical functions or functional requirementUser Interface: Oh, it's a {disfmarker} Yeah.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: Yeah, audi audio settings and screen settings, we need those like audio settings mono, stereo, pitch, screen settings like brightness, colour, or do we just want that accessed accessed from the television itselfProject Manager: The T_V_. I think that that's fine just for the T_V_. I mean how often does the average user need to do that kind of stuffUser Interface: Well, the other option is sort of like down at the bottom, like farther away, you just have this sort of box inset where it's like the buttons that you don't use as much, but occasionally you will use.Project Manager: Hmm.User Interface: and so it's like {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah,'cause we need to {disfmarker} we definitely need to have buttons for like sub-titles and things like that. It's'cause the foreign film market is expanding and stuff, and like on television like I know f k living in Los Angeles it's tons of Spanish network television if it has English sub-titles it's definitely helpful.Project Manager: Couldn't we do that all through one button, something, a menu button, that pops up with a menu on the T_V_ that says, you know, audio, video, whatever, language,User Interface: I don't {disfmarker} well, I don't know.Project Manager: you knowUser Interface: Right.Marketing: So we need up, down, and side-to-side buttons.Project Manager: For the menus.User Interface: Well, that could be {disfmarker} No you could just double up with like the channel or the volume buttons.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: That's true.User Interface: Channel is just up and down.Marketing: Yeah, okay. Okay, yeah.User Interface: And then add a {disfmarker}Project Manager: Something that looks mayb you know.Marketing: Such as, yeah, the one the one over there on the left the engineering centred one.Project Manager: Y right, right right right.User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: That oneUser Interface: So we just have it like {disfmarker} add a menu button then for the various things needed,Project Manager: Right.User Interface: including v voice recognition if we have any like settings for voice recognition nowProject Manager: In the middle perhaps.User Interface: included in the menu.Project Manager: Yep.Marketing: Ooh, I just got an idea for a design.Project Manager: {gap} good. Anybody have anything else they'd like to bring up in this meetingIndustrial Designer: I had something, but I forgot.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay. {gap} get out of here. Let's go back to the meeting closure then and see what we need to do next. Mm. Alright. After this meeting we're gonna be sent a questionnaire and summary again which we need to reply to that e-mail. And then we're gonna have lunch break. And after lunch thirty minutes of individual work time. Um I'm gonna put the minutes {disfmarker} I put the minutes for the first meeting already in the project documents folder, if you'd like to review them. And I'm gonna type up the minutes for this one as well. Um here's what we're each going to do. The I_D_ is going to work on the components concept, um U_I_D_ the user interface concept, and you're going to do some trend watching.'Kay. Specific instructions will be sent to you by your personal coach. And if anybody has anything they would like to add No Okay, well, this meeting is officially over. Thank you all. actually stare at that bulb and go, okay, when I push this button, is it workingProject Manager: Hmm. It'd probably be lighting up the key too,Marketing: Okay.Industrial Designer: We can skip that whole thing.Project Manager: rightIndustrial Designer: Yep.Project Manager:'Kay.User Interface: Yeah.Marketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: So you can put it in the dark. {vocalsound}Project Manager: The buttons.Marketing: Yeah, and that's good.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: We should make it glow in the dark. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah, definitely.'Kay nex R ReadyIndustrial Designer: Yeah, that's it.Project Manager:'Kay, any p'KayUser Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Mm'kay.Project Manager: Anything you wanna add for personal preferences though, you f you said already that we needed a large on-off button, you think. Anything elseIndustrial Designer: I think that that's a good idea, because you know that's one of the most important buttons.User Interface: Just {disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay.User Interface: Well, should it be larger buttons in general, you know like uh the examples that I had, they were swi quite small. So should we try and go for something that has l larger buttonsMarketing: I think we should. Like I think that would be in a as in {disfmarker} like in {disfmarker} for the design, sorry, um. I think we should definitely go with buttons that don't look like a normal remote,'cause most remotes have small square buttons,Project Manager: Mm.Marketing: I think we should do something like maybe bigger and round like bubbles.User Interface: Ovals. Yeah, yeah.Project Manager: Okay. Okay, let's talk about all of our {disfmarker} We'll come to decision later about all the components that we need to include, let's um wrap up this one, and {vocalsound} I'm gonna go back to my PowerPoint,'cause we need to discuss the new project requirements which you might've already seen flashed up on the screen a bit earlier. {vocalsound} Wait, come back. Alright. Sorry, let's

What did the lab tests tell them about the design of buttons

According to the lab tests, users only use ten percent of the buttons on a remote. It was shown that users didn't really need all the buttons provided by current remotes, and it would be more user-friendly if their new remote could lose the unnecessary ones. The most frequently used buttons were those for the channel, the volume and the power on/off.

PowerPoints now or {disfmarker}User Interface: You know you could you could do it yourself actually.Project Manager: Oh.Industrial Designer: Did you send itProject Manager: Save it in the project documents.User Interface: Put it in Project Documents,Project Manager: Okay.User Interface: yeah.Project Manager: Mm-mm-mm. This oneUser Interface: Sure. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay.User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Okay. Great.User Interface: Okay. Um well, the function {vocalsound} of a remote control, as what uh we've been informed, is basically to send messages to the television set, for example, switch it on, switch it off, go to this channel, go to channel nine, turn the volume up, etcetera. Um some of the considerations is just um for example the what it needs to include it's the numbers, you know, zero to nine, so you can move to a channel, the power button on slash off, the channel going up and down, volume going up and down, and then mute, a mute function. And then functions for V_H_S_, D_V_D_, for example, play, rewind, fast-forward, stop, pause, enter. And enter would be for like, you know, the menus. {vocalsound} And then other menus for D_V_ as well as T_V_, whether that means like um we can go and decide the brightness of the screen, things like that, all the more complicated functions of menus.Project Manager: {gap}User Interface: And we can decide if that's what we want, {gap}, um if we want to include that on the remote, if that's something that would stay on the T_V_ itself, for example.Project Manager: Okay. Okay.User Interface: These are two examples. Um and you can see on the left, it's got a lot more buttons,Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: and I don't know if you can read it, but it says, step, go to, freeze, um slow, repeat, program, mute, and so those are some Interface: Right.Marketing: So we need up, down, and side-to-side buttons.Project Manager: For the menus.User Interface: Well, that could be {disfmarker} No you could just double up with like the channel or the volume buttons.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: That's true.User Interface: Channel is just up and down.Marketing: Yeah, okay. Okay, yeah.User Interface: And then add a {disfmarker}Project Manager: Something that looks mayb you know.Marketing: Such as, yeah, the one the one over there on the left the engineering centred one.Project Manager: Y right, right right right.User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: That oneUser Interface: So we just have it like {disfmarker} add a menu button then for the various things needed,Project Manager: Right.User Interface: including v voice recognition if we have any like settings for voice recognition nowProject Manager: In the middle perhaps.User Interface: included in the menu.Project Manager: Yep.Marketing: Ooh, I just got an idea for a design.Project Manager: {gap} good. Anybody have anything else they'd like to bring up in this meetingIndustrial Designer: I had something, but I forgot.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay. {gap} get out of here. Let's go back to the meeting closure then and see what we need to do next. Mm. Alright. After this meeting we're gonna be sent a questionnaire and summary again which we need to reply to that e-mail. And then we're gonna have lunch break. And after lunch thirty minutes of individual work time. Um I'm gonna put the minutes {disfmarker} I put the minutes for the first meeting already in the project documents folder, if you'd like to review them. And I'm gonna type up the minutes for this one as well. Um here's what we're each going to do. The I_D_ is going to work on the components concept, um U_I_D_ the user interface concept, and you're going to do some trend watching.'Kay. Specific instructions will be sent to you by your personal coach. And if anybody has anything they would like to add No Okay, well, this meeting is officially over. Thank you all. large on-off button, {vocalsound} demographically we're moving towards an older generation of people, so a large on-off button would probably be good.User Interface: {vocalsound} {gap}Project Manager: Hmm.Industrial Designer: Selection button for various entertainment devices, so you want something that will permit you to select the D_V_D_ player or the T_V_ or the stereo system. Um smart chip that perverts {disfmarker} uh that permits, sorry, universal application again, something that'll allow us to skip over between devices, and that's kinda it.Project Manager: {gap}Industrial Designer: Uh this is my fifty second design.User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Power source over here. We're gonna have a switch obviously between the power source and the rest of it, and you're gonna need the switch. Um extra bulb could just be for flashiness, um subcomponent which would be like a way of diverting the power to different parts of the the device. Um the chip and of course the infra-red bulb, so it can communicate with the various devices that it needs to talk to.Marketing: So what exactly we are looking at, is this like the front of the remoteIndustrial Designer: This is just like a rough schematic.Project Manager: So this would be the frontIndustrial Designer: So this is the internal workings.Project Manager: So the red would be the front of the remote though, rightMarketing: Oh okay.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: Okay.User Interface: Yeah, that's gonna be what's communicating with the T_V_, but the other bulb, I think, is good to just to indicate, I'm doing something, it's sort of like a reassurance.Project Manager: The l {vocalsound} the light up kind of {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah, so you don't have to stare at that infra-red,Marketing: Like that we know the battery's working.Project Manager: Yeah.Industrial Designer:'cause you know when the battery starts dying in your remote currently, you have to R_R_.Project Manager: Right. So we've simplified, we don't need all those um play, fast-forward, rewind,User Interface: Right, yeah.Project Manager: or no menu buttons.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: So we've pretty much pared it down to on-off, volume, mute, channel up and down, um the numbers {disfmarker} Yeah. {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Um can we go back to {disfmarker} I'm gonna look really quickly back at thoseUser Interface: Two examples.Project Manager: examples and see if there is anything.User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: Which one is yours, technical functions or functional requirementUser Interface: Oh, it's a {disfmarker} Yeah.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: Yeah, audi audio settings and screen settings, we need those like audio settings mono, stereo, pitch, screen settings like brightness, colour, or do we just want that accessed accessed from the television itselfProject Manager: The T_V_. I think that that's fine just for the T_V_. I mean how often does the average user need to do that kind of stuffUser Interface: Well, the other option is sort of like down at the bottom, like farther away, you just have this sort of box inset where it's like the buttons that you don't use as much, but occasionally you will use.Project Manager: Hmm.User Interface: and so it's like {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah,'cause we need to {disfmarker} we definitely need to have buttons for like sub-titles and things like that. It's'cause the foreign film market is expanding and stuff, and like on television like I know f k living in Los Angeles it's tons of Spanish network television if it has English sub-titles it's definitely helpful.Project Manager: Couldn't we do that all through one button, something, a menu button, that pops up with a menu on the T_V_ that says, you know, audio, video, whatever, language,User Interface: I don't {disfmarker} well, I don't know.Project Manager: you knowUser actually stare at that bulb and go, okay, when I push this button, is it workingProject Manager: Hmm. It'd probably be lighting up the key too,Marketing: Okay.Industrial Designer: We can skip that whole thing.Project Manager: rightIndustrial Designer: Yep.Project Manager:'Kay.User Interface: Yeah.Marketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: So you can put it in the dark. {vocalsound}Project Manager: The buttons.Marketing: Yeah, and that's good.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: We should make it glow in the dark. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah, definitely.'Kay nex R ReadyIndustrial Designer: Yeah, that's it.Project Manager:'Kay, any p'KayUser Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Mm'kay.Project Manager: Anything you wanna add for personal preferences though, you f you said already that we needed a large on-off button, you think. Anything elseIndustrial Designer: I think that that's a good idea, because you know that's one of the most important buttons.User Interface: Just {disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay.User Interface: Well, should it be larger buttons in general, you know like uh the examples that I had, they were swi quite small. So should we try and go for something that has l larger buttonsMarketing: I think we should. Like I think that would be in a as in {disfmarker} like in {disfmarker} for the design, sorry, um. I think we should definitely go with buttons that don't look like a normal remote,'cause most remotes have small square buttons,Project Manager: Mm.Marketing: I think we should do something like maybe bigger and round like bubbles.User Interface: Ovals. Yeah, yeah.Project Manager: Okay. Okay, let's talk about all of our {disfmarker} We'll come to decision later about all the components that we need to include, let's um wrap up this one, and {vocalsound} I'm gonna go back to my PowerPoint,'cause we need to discuss the new project requirements which you might've already seen flashed up on the screen a bit earlier. {vocalsound} Wait, come back. Alright. Sorry, let's

What could they do to make the remote more modern and high-class in regard to its function design

One thing they could do was to design a lost-and-found function to accommodate the user's need to retrieve the remote when it was lost. Another way was to give it a modern eye-catching design that could distinguish the new remote from current standard ones. Also, given that speech recognition was an up-and-coming thing among their target group, they could include this function in the remote, allowing users to control their devices by simply speaking to it.

PowerPoints now or {disfmarker}User Interface: You know you could you could do it yourself actually.Project Manager: Oh.Industrial Designer: Did you send itProject Manager: Save it in the project documents.User Interface: Put it in Project Documents,Project Manager: Okay.User Interface: yeah.Project Manager: Mm-mm-mm. This oneUser Interface: Sure. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay.User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Okay. Great.User Interface: Okay. Um well, the function {vocalsound} of a remote control, as what uh we've been informed, is basically to send messages to the television set, for example, switch it on, switch it off, go to this channel, go to channel nine, turn the volume up, etcetera. Um some of the considerations is just um for example the what it needs to include it's the numbers, you know, zero to nine, so you can move to a channel, the power button on slash off, the channel going up and down, volume going up and down, and then mute, a mute function. And then functions for V_H_S_, D_V_D_, for example, play, rewind, fast-forward, stop, pause, enter. And enter would be for like, you know, the menus. {vocalsound} And then other menus for D_V_ as well as T_V_, whether that means like um we can go and decide the brightness of the screen, things like that, all the more complicated functions of menus.Project Manager: {gap}User Interface: And we can decide if that's what we want, {gap}, um if we want to include that on the remote, if that's something that would stay on the T_V_ itself, for example.Project Manager: Okay. Okay.User Interface: These are two examples. Um and you can see on the left, it's got a lot more buttons,Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: and I don't know if you can read it, but it says, step, go to, freeze, um slow, repeat, program, mute, and so those are some Interface: Right.Marketing: So we need up, down, and side-to-side buttons.Project Manager: For the menus.User Interface: Well, that could be {disfmarker} No you could just double up with like the channel or the volume buttons.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: That's true.User Interface: Channel is just up and down.Marketing: Yeah, okay. Okay, yeah.User Interface: And then add a {disfmarker}Project Manager: Something that looks mayb you know.Marketing: Such as, yeah, the one the one over there on the left the engineering centred one.Project Manager: Y right, right right right.User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: That oneUser Interface: So we just have it like {disfmarker} add a menu button then for the various things needed,Project Manager: Right.User Interface: including v voice recognition if we have any like settings for voice recognition nowProject Manager: In the middle perhaps.User Interface: included in the menu.Project Manager: Yep.Marketing: Ooh, I just got an idea for a design.Project Manager: {gap} good. Anybody have anything else they'd like to bring up in this meetingIndustrial Designer: I had something, but I forgot.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay. {gap} get out of here. Let's go back to the meeting closure then and see what we need to do next. Mm. Alright. After this meeting we're gonna be sent a questionnaire and summary again which we need to reply to that e-mail. And then we're gonna have lunch break. And after lunch thirty minutes of individual work time. Um I'm gonna put the minutes {disfmarker} I put the minutes for the first meeting already in the project documents folder, if you'd like to review them. And I'm gonna type up the minutes for this one as well. Um here's what we're each going to do. The I_D_ is going to work on the components concept, um U_I_D_ the user interface concept, and you're going to do some trend watching.'Kay. Specific instructions will be sent to you by your personal coach. And if anybody has anything they would like to add No Okay, well, this meeting is officially over. Thank you all. R_R_.Project Manager: Right. So we've simplified, we don't need all those um play, fast-forward, rewind,User Interface: Right, yeah.Project Manager: or no menu buttons.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: So we've pretty much pared it down to on-off, volume, mute, channel up and down, um the numbers {disfmarker} Yeah. {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Um can we go back to {disfmarker} I'm gonna look really quickly back at thoseUser Interface: Two examples.Project Manager: examples and see if there is anything.User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: Which one is yours, technical functions or functional requirementUser Interface: Oh, it's a {disfmarker} Yeah.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: Yeah, audi audio settings and screen settings, we need those like audio settings mono, stereo, pitch, screen settings like brightness, colour, or do we just want that accessed accessed from the television itselfProject Manager: The T_V_. I think that that's fine just for the T_V_. I mean how often does the average user need to do that kind of stuffUser Interface: Well, the other option is sort of like down at the bottom, like farther away, you just have this sort of box inset where it's like the buttons that you don't use as much, but occasionally you will use.Project Manager: Hmm.User Interface: and so it's like {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah,'cause we need to {disfmarker} we definitely need to have buttons for like sub-titles and things like that. It's'cause the foreign film market is expanding and stuff, and like on television like I know f k living in Los Angeles it's tons of Spanish network television if it has English sub-titles it's definitely helpful.Project Manager: Couldn't we do that all through one button, something, a menu button, that pops up with a menu on the T_V_ that says, you know, audio, video, whatever, language,User Interface: I don't {disfmarker} well, I don't know.Project Manager: you knowUser large on-off button, {vocalsound} demographically we're moving towards an older generation of people, so a large on-off button would probably be good.User Interface: {vocalsound} {gap}Project Manager: Hmm.Industrial Designer: Selection button for various entertainment devices, so you want something that will permit you to select the D_V_D_ player or the T_V_ or the stereo system. Um smart chip that perverts {disfmarker} uh that permits, sorry, universal application again, something that'll allow us to skip over between devices, and that's kinda it.Project Manager: {gap}Industrial Designer: Uh this is my fifty second design.User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Power source over here. We're gonna have a switch obviously between the power source and the rest of it, and you're gonna need the switch. Um extra bulb could just be for flashiness, um subcomponent which would be like a way of diverting the power to different parts of the the device. Um the chip and of course the infra-red bulb, so it can communicate with the various devices that it needs to talk to.Marketing: So what exactly we are looking at, is this like the front of the remoteIndustrial Designer: This is just like a rough schematic.Project Manager: So this would be the frontIndustrial Designer: So this is the internal workings.Project Manager: So the red would be the front of the remote though, rightMarketing: Oh okay.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: Okay.User Interface: Yeah, that's gonna be what's communicating with the T_V_, but the other bulb, I think, is good to just to indicate, I'm doing something, it's sort of like a reassurance.Project Manager: The l {vocalsound} the light up kind of {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah, so you don't have to stare at that infra-red,Marketing: Like that we know the battery's working.Project Manager: Yeah.Industrial Designer:'cause you know when the battery starts dying in your remote currently, you have to actually stare at that bulb and go, okay, when I push this button, is it workingProject Manager: Hmm. It'd probably be lighting up the key too,Marketing: Okay.Industrial Designer: We can skip that whole thing.Project Manager: rightIndustrial Designer: Yep.Project Manager:'Kay.User Interface: Yeah.Marketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: So you can put it in the dark. {vocalsound}Project Manager: The buttons.Marketing: Yeah, and that's good.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: We should make it glow in the dark. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah, definitely.'Kay nex R ReadyIndustrial Designer: Yeah, that's it.Project Manager:'Kay, any p'KayUser Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Mm'kay.Project Manager: Anything you wanna add for personal preferences though, you f you said already that we needed a large on-off button, you think. Anything elseIndustrial Designer: I think that that's a good idea, because you know that's one of the most important buttons.User Interface: Just {disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay.User Interface: Well, should it be larger buttons in general, you know like uh the examples that I had, they were swi quite small. So should we try and go for something that has l larger buttonsMarketing: I think we should. Like I think that would be in a as in {disfmarker} like in {disfmarker} for the design, sorry, um. I think we should definitely go with buttons that don't look like a normal remote,'cause most remotes have small square buttons,Project Manager: Mm.Marketing: I think we should do something like maybe bigger and round like bubbles.User Interface: Ovals. Yeah, yeah.Project Manager: Okay. Okay, let's talk about all of our {disfmarker} We'll come to decision later about all the components that we need to include, let's um wrap up this one, and {vocalsound} I'm gonna go back to my PowerPoint,'cause we need to discuss the new project requirements which you might've already seen flashed up on the screen a bit earlier. {vocalsound} Wait, come back. Alright. Sorry, let's

Summarize the additional ideas on function design which the team brought up based on previous presentations.

Project Manager first announced that their product was only going to be a TV remote instead of a multifunctional one, and that the yellow colour and the slogan of their company should be included in their design. Their target group should be people of all ages with little to no technical literacy. The specific functions of their remote should include sending messages to the TV, lost-and-found assistance, and speech recognition. A menu button could be designed to cover all various additional functions.

PowerPoints now or {disfmarker}User Interface: You know you could you could do it yourself actually.Project Manager: Oh.Industrial Designer: Did you send itProject Manager: Save it in the project documents.User Interface: Put it in Project Documents,Project Manager: Okay.User Interface: yeah.Project Manager: Mm-mm-mm. This oneUser Interface: Sure. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay.User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Okay. Great.User Interface: Okay. Um well, the function {vocalsound} of a remote control, as what uh we've been informed, is basically to send messages to the television set, for example, switch it on, switch it off, go to this channel, go to channel nine, turn the volume up, etcetera. Um some of the considerations is just um for example the what it needs to include it's the numbers, you know, zero to nine, so you can move to a channel, the power button on slash off, the channel going up and down, volume going up and down, and then mute, a mute function. And then functions for V_H_S_, D_V_D_, for example, play, rewind, fast-forward, stop, pause, enter. And enter would be for like, you know, the menus. {vocalsound} And then other menus for D_V_ as well as T_V_, whether that means like um we can go and decide the brightness of the screen, things like that, all the more complicated functions of menus.Project Manager: {gap}User Interface: And we can decide if that's what we want, {gap}, um if we want to include that on the remote, if that's something that would stay on the T_V_ itself, for example.Project Manager: Okay. Okay.User Interface: These are two examples. Um and you can see on the left, it's got a lot more buttons,Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: and I don't know if you can read it, but it says, step, go to, freeze, um slow, repeat, program, mute, and so those are some R_R_.Project Manager: Right. So we've simplified, we don't need all those um play, fast-forward, rewind,User Interface: Right, yeah.Project Manager: or no menu buttons.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: So we've pretty much pared it down to on-off, volume, mute, channel up and down, um the numbers {disfmarker} Yeah. {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Um can we go back to {disfmarker} I'm gonna look really quickly back at thoseUser Interface: Two examples.Project Manager: examples and see if there is anything.User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: Which one is yours, technical functions or functional requirementUser Interface: Oh, it's a {disfmarker} Yeah.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: Yeah, audi audio settings and screen settings, we need those like audio settings mono, stereo, pitch, screen settings like brightness, colour, or do we just want that accessed accessed from the television itselfProject Manager: The T_V_. I think that that's fine just for the T_V_. I mean how often does the average user need to do that kind of stuffUser Interface: Well, the other option is sort of like down at the bottom, like farther away, you just have this sort of box inset where it's like the buttons that you don't use as much, but occasionally you will use.Project Manager: Hmm.User Interface: and so it's like {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah,'cause we need to {disfmarker} we definitely need to have buttons for like sub-titles and things like that. It's'cause the foreign film market is expanding and stuff, and like on television like I know f k living in Los Angeles it's tons of Spanish network television if it has English sub-titles it's definitely helpful.Project Manager: Couldn't we do that all through one button, something, a menu button, that pops up with a menu on the T_V_ that says, you know, audio, video, whatever, language,User Interface: I don't {disfmarker} well, I don't know.Project Manager: you knowUser large on-off button, {vocalsound} demographically we're moving towards an older generation of people, so a large on-off button would probably be good.User Interface: {vocalsound} {gap}Project Manager: Hmm.Industrial Designer: Selection button for various entertainment devices, so you want something that will permit you to select the D_V_D_ player or the T_V_ or the stereo system. Um smart chip that perverts {disfmarker} uh that permits, sorry, universal application again, something that'll allow us to skip over between devices, and that's kinda it.Project Manager: {gap}Industrial Designer: Uh this is my fifty second design.User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Power source over here. We're gonna have a switch obviously between the power source and the rest of it, and you're gonna need the switch. Um extra bulb could just be for flashiness, um subcomponent which would be like a way of diverting the power to different parts of the the device. Um the chip and of course the infra-red bulb, so it can communicate with the various devices that it needs to talk to.Marketing: So what exactly we are looking at, is this like the front of the remoteIndustrial Designer: This is just like a rough schematic.Project Manager: So this would be the frontIndustrial Designer: So this is the internal workings.Project Manager: So the red would be the front of the remote though, rightMarketing: Oh okay.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: Okay.User Interface: Yeah, that's gonna be what's communicating with the T_V_, but the other bulb, I think, is good to just to indicate, I'm doing something, it's sort of like a reassurance.Project Manager: The l {vocalsound} the light up kind of {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah, so you don't have to stare at that infra-red,Marketing: Like that we know the battery's working.Project Manager: Yeah.Industrial Designer:'cause you know when the battery starts dying in your remote currently, you have to Interface: Right.Marketing: So we need up, down, and side-to-side buttons.Project Manager: For the menus.User Interface: Well, that could be {disfmarker} No you could just double up with like the channel or the volume buttons.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: That's true.User Interface: Channel is just up and down.Marketing: Yeah, okay. Okay, yeah.User Interface: And then add a {disfmarker}Project Manager: Something that looks mayb you know.Marketing: Such as, yeah, the one the one over there on the left the engineering centred one.Project Manager: Y right, right right right.User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: That oneUser Interface: So we just have it like {disfmarker} add a menu button then for the various things needed,Project Manager: Right.User Interface: including v voice recognition if we have any like settings for voice recognition nowProject Manager: In the middle perhaps.User Interface: included in the menu.Project Manager: Yep.Marketing: Ooh, I just got an idea for a design.Project Manager: {gap} good. Anybody have anything else they'd like to bring up in this meetingIndustrial Designer: I had something, but I forgot.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay. {gap} get out of here. Let's go back to the meeting closure then and see what we need to do next. Mm. Alright. After this meeting we're gonna be sent a questionnaire and summary again which we need to reply to that e-mail. And then we're gonna have lunch break. And after lunch thirty minutes of individual work time. Um I'm gonna put the minutes {disfmarker} I put the minutes for the first meeting already in the project documents folder, if you'd like to review them. And I'm gonna type up the minutes for this one as well. Um here's what we're each going to do. The I_D_ is going to work on the components concept, um U_I_D_ the user interface concept, and you're going to do some trend watching.'Kay. Specific instructions will be sent to you by your personal coach. And if anybody has anything they would like to add No Okay, well, this meeting is officially over. Thank you all. actually stare at that bulb and go, okay, when I push this button, is it workingProject Manager: Hmm. It'd probably be lighting up the key too,Marketing: Okay.Industrial Designer: We can skip that whole thing.Project Manager: rightIndustrial Designer: Yep.Project Manager:'Kay.User Interface: Yeah.Marketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: So you can put it in the dark. {vocalsound}Project Manager: The buttons.Marketing: Yeah, and that's good.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: We should make it glow in the dark. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah, definitely.'Kay nex R ReadyIndustrial Designer: Yeah, that's it.Project Manager:'Kay, any p'KayUser Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Mm'kay.Project Manager: Anything you wanna add for personal preferences though, you f you said already that we needed a large on-off button, you think. Anything elseIndustrial Designer: I think that that's a good idea, because you know that's one of the most important buttons.User Interface: Just {disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay.User Interface: Well, should it be larger buttons in general, you know like uh the examples that I had, they were swi quite small. So should we try and go for something that has l larger buttonsMarketing: I think we should. Like I think that would be in a as in {disfmarker} like in {disfmarker} for the design, sorry, um. I think we should definitely go with buttons that don't look like a normal remote,'cause most remotes have small square buttons,Project Manager: Mm.Marketing: I think we should do something like maybe bigger and round like bubbles.User Interface: Ovals. Yeah, yeah.Project Manager: Okay. Okay, let's talk about all of our {disfmarker} We'll come to decision later about all the components that we need to include, let's um wrap up this one, and {vocalsound} I'm gonna go back to my PowerPoint,'cause we need to discuss the new project requirements which you might've already seen flashed up on the screen a bit earlier. {vocalsound} Wait, come back. Alright. Sorry, let's

In the discussion of function design, how could the team realize the lost-and-found function of their remote

Industrial Designer suggested that the remote could be attached to a charger base, and the lost remote would beep if a button on the base was pushed. This might add to their costs, and would require a rechargeable battery for the remote. Project Manager later proposed that the speech recognition could be part of the lost-and-found device. This would allow the remote to beep when hearing a certain phrase.

PowerPoints now or {disfmarker}User Interface: You know you could you could do it yourself actually.Project Manager: Oh.Industrial Designer: Did you send itProject Manager: Save it in the project documents.User Interface: Put it in Project Documents,Project Manager: Okay.User Interface: yeah.Project Manager: Mm-mm-mm. This oneUser Interface: Sure. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay.User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Okay. Great.User Interface: Okay. Um well, the function {vocalsound} of a remote control, as what uh we've been informed, is basically to send messages to the television set, for example, switch it on, switch it off, go to this channel, go to channel nine, turn the volume up, etcetera. Um some of the considerations is just um for example the what it needs to include it's the numbers, you know, zero to nine, so you can move to a channel, the power button on slash off, the channel going up and down, volume going up and down, and then mute, a mute function. And then functions for V_H_S_, D_V_D_, for example, play, rewind, fast-forward, stop, pause, enter. And enter would be for like, you know, the menus. {vocalsound} And then other menus for D_V_ as well as T_V_, whether that means like um we can go and decide the brightness of the screen, things like that, all the more complicated functions of menus.Project Manager: {gap}User Interface: And we can decide if that's what we want, {gap}, um if we want to include that on the remote, if that's something that would stay on the T_V_ itself, for example.Project Manager: Okay. Okay.User Interface: These are two examples. Um and you can see on the left, it's got a lot more buttons,Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: and I don't know if you can read it, but it says, step, go to, freeze, um slow, repeat, program, mute, and so those are some large on-off button, {vocalsound} demographically we're moving towards an older generation of people, so a large on-off button would probably be good.User Interface: {vocalsound} {gap}Project Manager: Hmm.Industrial Designer: Selection button for various entertainment devices, so you want something that will permit you to select the D_V_D_ player or the T_V_ or the stereo system. Um smart chip that perverts {disfmarker} uh that permits, sorry, universal application again, something that'll allow us to skip over between devices, and that's kinda it.Project Manager: {gap}Industrial Designer: Uh this is my fifty second design.User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Power source over here. We're gonna have a switch obviously between the power source and the rest of it, and you're gonna need the switch. Um extra bulb could just be for flashiness, um subcomponent which would be like a way of diverting the power to different parts of the the device. Um the chip and of course the infra-red bulb, so it can communicate with the various devices that it needs to talk to.Marketing: So what exactly we are looking at, is this like the front of the remoteIndustrial Designer: This is just like a rough schematic.Project Manager: So this would be the frontIndustrial Designer: So this is the internal workings.Project Manager: So the red would be the front of the remote though, rightMarketing: Oh okay.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: Okay.User Interface: Yeah, that's gonna be what's communicating with the T_V_, but the other bulb, I think, is good to just to indicate, I'm doing something, it's sort of like a reassurance.Project Manager: The l {vocalsound} the light up kind of {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah, so you don't have to stare at that infra-red,Marketing: Like that we know the battery's working.Project Manager: Yeah.Industrial Designer:'cause you know when the battery starts dying in your remote currently, you have to Interface: Right.Marketing: So we need up, down, and side-to-side buttons.Project Manager: For the menus.User Interface: Well, that could be {disfmarker} No you could just double up with like the channel or the volume buttons.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: That's true.User Interface: Channel is just up and down.Marketing: Yeah, okay. Okay, yeah.User Interface: And then add a {disfmarker}Project Manager: Something that looks mayb you know.Marketing: Such as, yeah, the one the one over there on the left the engineering centred one.Project Manager: Y right, right right right.User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: That oneUser Interface: So we just have it like {disfmarker} add a menu button then for the various things needed,Project Manager: Right.User Interface: including v voice recognition if we have any like settings for voice recognition nowProject Manager: In the middle perhaps.User Interface: included in the menu.Project Manager: Yep.Marketing: Ooh, I just got an idea for a design.Project Manager: {gap} good. Anybody have anything else they'd like to bring up in this meetingIndustrial Designer: I had something, but I forgot.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay. {gap} get out of here. Let's go back to the meeting closure then and see what we need to do next. Mm. Alright. After this meeting we're gonna be sent a questionnaire and summary again which we need to reply to that e-mail. And then we're gonna have lunch break. And after lunch thirty minutes of individual work time. Um I'm gonna put the minutes {disfmarker} I put the minutes for the first meeting already in the project documents folder, if you'd like to review them. And I'm gonna type up the minutes for this one as well. Um here's what we're each going to do. The I_D_ is going to work on the components concept, um U_I_D_ the user interface concept, and you're going to do some trend watching.'Kay. Specific instructions will be sent to you by your personal coach. And if anybody has anything they would like to add No Okay, well, this meeting is officially over. Thank you all. actually stare at that bulb and go, okay, when I push this button, is it workingProject Manager: Hmm. It'd probably be lighting up the key too,Marketing: Okay.Industrial Designer: We can skip that whole thing.Project Manager: rightIndustrial Designer: Yep.Project Manager:'Kay.User Interface: Yeah.Marketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: So you can put it in the dark. {vocalsound}Project Manager: The buttons.Marketing: Yeah, and that's good.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: We should make it glow in the dark. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah, definitely.'Kay nex R ReadyIndustrial Designer: Yeah, that's it.Project Manager:'Kay, any p'KayUser Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Mm'kay.Project Manager: Anything you wanna add for personal preferences though, you f you said already that we needed a large on-off button, you think. Anything elseIndustrial Designer: I think that that's a good idea, because you know that's one of the most important buttons.User Interface: Just {disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay.User Interface: Well, should it be larger buttons in general, you know like uh the examples that I had, they were swi quite small. So should we try and go for something that has l larger buttonsMarketing: I think we should. Like I think that would be in a as in {disfmarker} like in {disfmarker} for the design, sorry, um. I think we should definitely go with buttons that don't look like a normal remote,'cause most remotes have small square buttons,Project Manager: Mm.Marketing: I think we should do something like maybe bigger and round like bubbles.User Interface: Ovals. Yeah, yeah.Project Manager: Okay. Okay, let's talk about all of our {disfmarker} We'll come to decision later about all the components that we need to include, let's um wrap up this one, and {vocalsound} I'm gonna go back to my PowerPoint,'cause we need to discuss the new project requirements which you might've already seen flashed up on the screen a bit earlier. {vocalsound} Wait, come back. Alright. Sorry, let's R_R_.Project Manager: Right. So we've simplified, we don't need all those um play, fast-forward, rewind,User Interface: Right, yeah.Project Manager: or no menu buttons.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: So we've pretty much pared it down to on-off, volume, mute, channel up and down, um the numbers {disfmarker} Yeah. {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Um can we go back to {disfmarker} I'm gonna look really quickly back at thoseUser Interface: Two examples.Project Manager: examples and see if there is anything.User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: Which one is yours, technical functions or functional requirementUser Interface: Oh, it's a {disfmarker} Yeah.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: Yeah, audi audio settings and screen settings, we need those like audio settings mono, stereo, pitch, screen settings like brightness, colour, or do we just want that accessed accessed from the television itselfProject Manager: The T_V_. I think that that's fine just for the T_V_. I mean how often does the average user need to do that kind of stuffUser Interface: Well, the other option is sort of like down at the bottom, like farther away, you just have this sort of box inset where it's like the buttons that you don't use as much, but occasionally you will use.Project Manager: Hmm.User Interface: and so it's like {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah,'cause we need to {disfmarker} we definitely need to have buttons for like sub-titles and things like that. It's'cause the foreign film market is expanding and stuff, and like on television like I know f k living in Los Angeles it's tons of Spanish network television if it has English sub-titles it's definitely helpful.Project Manager: Couldn't we do that all through one button, something, a menu button, that pops up with a menu on the T_V_ that says, you know, audio, video, whatever, language,User Interface: I don't {disfmarker} well, I don't know.Project Manager: you knowUser

What did the team decide on designing buttons for the remote

User Interface first asked whether they could possibly leave out the number buttons, but this proposal was turned down by others. They simplified the buttons to on-off, volume, mute, channel up/down, and the numbers 0-9. For more advanced functions, Project Manager suggested an additional one-for-all menu button that would allow the user to pull up various options on the TV screen. The channel and volume buttons could be used for navigating the menu page.

PowerPoints now or {disfmarker}User Interface: You know you could you could do it yourself actually.Project Manager: Oh.Industrial Designer: Did you send itProject Manager: Save it in the project documents.User Interface: Put it in Project Documents,Project Manager: Okay.User Interface: yeah.Project Manager: Mm-mm-mm. This oneUser Interface: Sure. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay.User Interface: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Okay. Great.User Interface: Okay. Um well, the function {vocalsound} of a remote control, as what uh we've been informed, is basically to send messages to the television set, for example, switch it on, switch it off, go to this channel, go to channel nine, turn the volume up, etcetera. Um some of the considerations is just um for example the what it needs to include it's the numbers, you know, zero to nine, so you can move to a channel, the power button on slash off, the channel going up and down, volume going up and down, and then mute, a mute function. And then functions for V_H_S_, D_V_D_, for example, play, rewind, fast-forward, stop, pause, enter. And enter would be for like, you know, the menus. {vocalsound} And then other menus for D_V_ as well as T_V_, whether that means like um we can go and decide the brightness of the screen, things like that, all the more complicated functions of menus.Project Manager: {gap}User Interface: And we can decide if that's what we want, {gap}, um if we want to include that on the remote, if that's something that would stay on the T_V_ itself, for example.Project Manager: Okay. Okay.User Interface: These are two examples. Um and you can see on the left, it's got a lot more buttons,Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: and I don't know if you can read it, but it says, step, go to, freeze, um slow, repeat, program, mute, and so those are some large on-off button, {vocalsound} demographically we're moving towards an older generation of people, so a large on-off button would probably be good.User Interface: {vocalsound} {gap}Project Manager: Hmm.Industrial Designer: Selection button for various entertainment devices, so you want something that will permit you to select the D_V_D_ player or the T_V_ or the stereo system. Um smart chip that perverts {disfmarker} uh that permits, sorry, universal application again, something that'll allow us to skip over between devices, and that's kinda it.Project Manager: {gap}Industrial Designer: Uh this is my fifty second design.User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Power source over here. We're gonna have a switch obviously between the power source and the rest of it, and you're gonna need the switch. Um extra bulb could just be for flashiness, um subcomponent which would be like a way of diverting the power to different parts of the the device. Um the chip and of course the infra-red bulb, so it can communicate with the various devices that it needs to talk to.Marketing: So what exactly we are looking at, is this like the front of the remoteIndustrial Designer: This is just like a rough schematic.Project Manager: So this would be the frontIndustrial Designer: So this is the internal workings.Project Manager: So the red would be the front of the remote though, rightMarketing: Oh okay.Industrial Designer: Yeah.Project Manager: Okay.User Interface: Yeah, that's gonna be what's communicating with the T_V_, but the other bulb, I think, is good to just to indicate, I'm doing something, it's sort of like a reassurance.Project Manager: The l {vocalsound} the light up kind of {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Yeah, so you don't have to stare at that infra-red,Marketing: Like that we know the battery's working.Project Manager: Yeah.Industrial Designer:'cause you know when the battery starts dying in your remote currently, you have to Interface: Right.Marketing: So we need up, down, and side-to-side buttons.Project Manager: For the menus.User Interface: Well, that could be {disfmarker} No you could just double up with like the channel or the volume buttons.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: That's true.User Interface: Channel is just up and down.Marketing: Yeah, okay. Okay, yeah.User Interface: And then add a {disfmarker}Project Manager: Something that looks mayb you know.Marketing: Such as, yeah, the one the one over there on the left the engineering centred one.Project Manager: Y right, right right right.User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: That oneUser Interface: So we just have it like {disfmarker} add a menu button then for the various things needed,Project Manager: Right.User Interface: including v voice recognition if we have any like settings for voice recognition nowProject Manager: In the middle perhaps.User Interface: included in the menu.Project Manager: Yep.Marketing: Ooh, I just got an idea for a design.Project Manager: {gap} good. Anybody have anything else they'd like to bring up in this meetingIndustrial Designer: I had something, but I forgot.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay. {gap} get out of here. Let's go back to the meeting closure then and see what we need to do next. Mm. Alright. After this meeting we're gonna be sent a questionnaire and summary again which we need to reply to that e-mail. And then we're gonna have lunch break. And after lunch thirty minutes of individual work time. Um I'm gonna put the minutes {disfmarker} I put the minutes for the first meeting already in the project documents folder, if you'd like to review them. And I'm gonna type up the minutes for this one as well. Um here's what we're each going to do. The I_D_ is going to work on the components concept, um U_I_D_ the user interface concept, and you're going to do some trend watching.'Kay. Specific instructions will be sent to you by your personal coach. And if anybody has anything they would like to add No Okay, well, this meeting is officially over. Thank you all. actually stare at that bulb and go, okay, when I push this button, is it workingProject Manager: Hmm. It'd probably be lighting up the key too,Marketing: Okay.Industrial Designer: We can skip that whole thing.Project Manager: rightIndustrial Designer: Yep.Project Manager:'Kay.User Interface: Yeah.Marketing: Yeah.Industrial Designer: So you can put it in the dark. {vocalsound}Project Manager: The buttons.Marketing: Yeah, and that's good.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: We should make it glow in the dark. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah, definitely.'Kay nex R ReadyIndustrial Designer: Yeah, that's it.Project Manager:'Kay, any p'KayUser Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Mm'kay.Project Manager: Anything you wanna add for personal preferences though, you f you said already that we needed a large on-off button, you think. Anything elseIndustrial Designer: I think that that's a good idea, because you know that's one of the most important buttons.User Interface: Just {disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay.User Interface: Well, should it be larger buttons in general, you know like uh the examples that I had, they were swi quite small. So should we try and go for something that has l larger buttonsMarketing: I think we should. Like I think that would be in a as in {disfmarker} like in {disfmarker} for the design, sorry, um. I think we should definitely go with buttons that don't look like a normal remote,'cause most remotes have small square buttons,Project Manager: Mm.Marketing: I think we should do something like maybe bigger and round like bubbles.User Interface: Ovals. Yeah, yeah.Project Manager: Okay. Okay, let's talk about all of our {disfmarker} We'll come to decision later about all the components that we need to include, let's um wrap up this one, and {vocalsound} I'm gonna go back to my PowerPoint,'cause we need to discuss the new project requirements which you might've already seen flashed up on the screen a bit earlier. {vocalsound} Wait, come back. Alright. Sorry, let's R_R_.Project Manager: Right. So we've simplified, we don't need all those um play, fast-forward, rewind,User Interface: Right, yeah.Project Manager: or no menu buttons.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: So we've pretty much pared it down to on-off, volume, mute, channel up and down, um the numbers {disfmarker} Yeah. {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Um can we go back to {disfmarker} I'm gonna look really quickly back at thoseUser Interface: Two examples.Project Manager: examples and see if there is anything.User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: Which one is yours, technical functions or functional requirementUser Interface: Oh, it's a {disfmarker} Yeah.Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: Yeah, audi audio settings and screen settings, we need those like audio settings mono, stereo, pitch, screen settings like brightness, colour, or do we just want that accessed accessed from the television itselfProject Manager: The T_V_. I think that that's fine just for the T_V_. I mean how often does the average user need to do that kind of stuffUser Interface: Well, the other option is sort of like down at the bottom, like farther away, you just have this sort of box inset where it's like the buttons that you don't use as much, but occasionally you will use.Project Manager: Hmm.User Interface: and so it's like {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah,'cause we need to {disfmarker} we definitely need to have buttons for like sub-titles and things like that. It's'cause the foreign film market is expanding and stuff, and like on television like I know f k living in Los Angeles it's tons of Spanish network television if it has English sub-titles it's definitely helpful.Project Manager: Couldn't we do that all through one button, something, a menu button, that pops up with a menu on the T_V_ that says, you know, audio, video, whatever, language,User Interface: I don't {disfmarker} well, I don't know.Project Manager: you knowUser

Summarize the whole meeting.

This was the functional design meeting, where the team discussed what functions should be included in the remote and how they should be carried out. User Interface gave a presentation on the design of the remote, offering a complex version and a simple one. Marketing followed with a presentation on the functional requirements of the remote, pointing out that the remote should be both high-tech looking and user-friendly, preferably with fewer buttons, a lost-and-found function and speech recognition. Industrial Designer then presented the working design for the remote, including its power source, chips and the component layout. The team then went into a further in-depth discussion, dealing with the specific points raised in the above presentations. After everyone had shared their ideas, Project Manager closed the meeting by distributing new tasks among the team members for them to work on until their next meeting.

can uh have a little fun then, before we uh dig in really to the hard stuff.Marketing: Okay. {vocalsound}Project Manager: That kind of thing. Would you start with drawing your uh favourite animalMarketing: Um, yeah. I don't know really how it works. But maybe you can show us firstProject Manager: {vocalsound} Okay, okay. Yeah, okay. Drawing goes with uh this thing. Do not touch your hand on uh this little uh thingy here. That's uh important.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: So hold it uh like this.User Interface: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Marketing: You g you get electrocuted or {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah, kinda. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: So, {vocalsound} um {disfmarker} You must p p uh push a little uh {disfmarker} Good. Because {disfmarker} And uh wait uh wait a few seconds. It's not uh fully real-time, so uh watch it.User Interface: Ach. {gap}Project Manager: Oh yeah. Well I'm gonna paint in the red.User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Oh.User Interface: Ooph.Project Manager: That's the background colour. {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Well, undo. Um {disfmarker} The pen No. One minute please. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah, that's the one. Well, five. Okay. {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} My favourite animal huhIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: It's like Pictionary {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah, you can guess what it is.Marketing: The the one who says it first {vocalsound} gets a raise.Project Manager: {vocalsound} May uh paint uh next.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: It's a pork {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} No, it's not an orc. {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: You don't see it uh at the earsMarketing: Mm yeah, I have it at home. {vocalsound}Project Manager: You have an orc at homeUser Interface: Very artistic.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Thank you.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: So it's a cat. {vocalsound}Marketing: What's it calledProject Manager: Simba.'Cause uh we have a cat at remote is uh fifty million Euro. So that's a lot. We have to sell uh a lot of uh {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah, how much is itMarketing: Like how muchUser Interface: Hundred million uh remotes or somethingProject Manager: Uh I think uh w when the selling price is twenty five, uh uh you got two million, two million remotes.User Interface: Oh yeah.Industrial Designer: Twenty million. Two million, oh yeah, two million. Yeah.Project Manager: But our marketing range is uh, market range is international. So we have uh virtually the whole world we can sell uh we can sell our r remotes to. At least that uh countries which have uh a television.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: Um {disfmarker} So now it's time uh for us to uh going uh to discuss a little uh things. You can think about uh experience with a remote control uh yourself, at home. What you think might be uh a useful uh new feature. What uh what can distinguish our new trendy remote control from all the others. Um so uh let's uh let's uh discuss a little. I'm gonna join you at the table. {vocalsound} Well what what's the most uh important thing at a remote controlUser Interface: Um well I think the most important thing of a remote control is that you can switch channels. And my opinion is you should keep it as basic as possible. Uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay. So not a not a remote control who uh uh which can uh can be used for television and a D_V_D_ and radio and {disfmarker} Or just only {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah. I think so. Uh but I have some points. Can I show them on the on the big screen MaybeProject Manager: If you have them on uh {disfmarker} I can uh {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah. Yeah, Yeah. W with this paper it's too mu too expensive. {vocalsound}Project Manager: But what is he uhUser Interface: Too expensive, yeah.Project Manager: Is it a rabbitIndustrial Designer: Yes. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Do you have a rabbit at homeMarketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: No.Marketing: It's a rabbit with uh broken legs {vocalsound}User Interface: A green rabbit.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} No. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Is it a white rabbit f It's the white rabbit from The Matrix.Industrial Designer: Yeah, exactly. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay, then yeah.User Interface: There, the g white green rabbit.Industrial Designer: So.User Interface: {vocalsound} He's a little bit stoned there. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} Uh I figured this is a pretty b good impression of a rabbit.Marketing: Yeah. It will do.Industrial Designer: Uh uh {disfmarker} Uh well.Project Manager: Okay. Finishing touch and then we're going further.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Project Manager Uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: YeahIndustrial Designer: Where does the pen go Just uh {disfmarker}Marketing: Have you been uh counting the timeProject Manager: Yeah, a little. {vocalsound}Marketing: Okay. Let's go on then.Project Manager: Well, I think the dog is the the most uh artistic.Industrial Designer: Uh I figured the rabbit was actually the most uh impressive. {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Don't choose for youself.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Oh, sorry. {vocalsound}Project Manager: That's selfish. Okay, now we're gonna dig into the to the serious stuff.Marketing: It's pretty abstract.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Uh the selling price for the remote will be uh twenty five Euro, and the production cost uh may not be more than uh twenty and a half Euro. So uh from my point of view, I don't think it's uh gonna be very uh very high tech, high definition, uh ultra modern uh kinda remote, for twelve uh fift uh twelve and a half Euro.Marketing: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Uh the profit we must make with uh the new homeMarketing: Ah.Project Manager: and he's called Simba.'Cause he looks like the uh the the lion from The Lion King.User Interface: Okay. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Miniature sizeProject Manager: So we uh found it kinda cool to uh name it after a lion.Marketing: Okay. {vocalsound}Project Manager: He's happy with us, so uh he's smiling.User Interface: Wow. He does have body uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound} Huh.Project Manager: No, only the face. Because we have we have twen twenty five minutes. So we uh {disfmarker}Marketing: Okay. We have to speed up.Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: Remember you use uh different colours, and different pen widths.Project Manager: Yeah. Okay, who wants to go nextMarketing: I {disfmarker} Okay.Project Manager: YeahIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: So choose a colour, choose a pen width and draw a {disfmarker}User Interface: You don't have to change the colour and the pen width during uh the drawing.Marketing: Save it.Project Manager: Yeah.User Interface: Or {disfmarker}Marketing: You have to save it.Project Manager: Save it, okay.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: I've done it. New'Kay.User Interface: You have to draw uh push hard on the pen or uh {disfmarker}Marketing: Mm uh {disfmarker} Not really.Project Manager: Kind of firm touch.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: That one.User Interface: Oh. Uh hmm.Marketing: Yeah Okay. Open. Which one is it Smart boardProject Manager: Yeah.User Interface: Okay.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: Okay. And now Okay. Okay, thanks.'Kay, I've speed up.'Kay, that's fine. Line width.Industrial Designer: By the way, why was your cat uh redProject Manager: Because uh my cat is red uh at home.User Interface: Oh.Industrial Designer: Oh, okay. {vocalsound}Project Manager: And I have red hair, so uh must be red.User Interface: It's a very bloody cat.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Oh, yeah, sure.User Interface: It's a frog. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: No, it's a turtle. {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Uh it's an apple. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} It's not an apple.Industrial Designer: Must all. Some basic things we co we want to going to do. Uh I think that's well uh {disfmarker} Yeah. Will come in handy.Marketing: Mm yeah.User Interface: Yeah.Marketing: I don't know. You decide. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: You're the Project Manager.Project Manager: W {vocalsound} He says {disfmarker}User Interface: if the technical functions have to be designed, I I've gotta know for what kind of machines they will be.Project Manager: Yeah.User Interface: Or do we use it a text screen Or uh will it be with uh with bluetooth or {disfmarker}Project Manager: Well, th that's that's really a step further. But if you say uh {vocalsound} is it uh uh one way or multi-purpose, that's a {disfmarker}User Interface: Okay. Mm-hmm.Marketing: Uh tha that's a same step further.Project Manager: WhyIndustrial Designer: Yeah, actually it is.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: WhyIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Then looking at individual components,Marketing: Uh.Industrial Designer: so that's actually a f step further.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: Like we all have a list of uh things that has to b that have to be in it, or how it has to be like. And then in the next meeting we decideProject Manager: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Yeah, we can take it from there.Marketing: w what it's gonna be.Project Manager: Okay.Industrial Designer: Yeah, I agree uh, we can take it from there.Marketing: A And then you s then you can delete uhIndustrial Designer: Or edit.Marketing: the o the obsolete uh details.Project Manager: Okay. So uhMarketing: I think.Project Manager: each individually i individually uh must think on what's uh at uh his point of view is the most important. And uh then we're going to fit uh all the pieces together the next meeting.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: I must finish off now,Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: so it's over. You uh will receive specific specific instructions uh by your personal coach. And I see you in uh thirty minutes. Thank you.User Interface: Okay.Industrial Designer: Okay, cheers.User Interface: Sorry.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Be careful.Marketing: Damn.User Interface: Yes.Marketing: Success {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah. No. Come up.

Summarize the discussion about financial targets of the new remote control project.

The remote control would be priced at 25 Euros, produced at the cost of 12. 5 Euros. Since the company has international market range, at least 2 million units would have to be sold to meet the company's profit goals of 50 million Euros.

remote is uh fifty million Euro. So that's a lot. We have to sell uh a lot of uh {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah, how much is itMarketing: Like how muchUser Interface: Hundred million uh remotes or somethingProject Manager: Uh I think uh w when the selling price is twenty five, uh uh you got two million, two million remotes.User Interface: Oh yeah.Industrial Designer: Twenty million. Two million, oh yeah, two million. Yeah.Project Manager: But our marketing range is uh, market range is international. So we have uh virtually the whole world we can sell uh we can sell our r remotes to. At least that uh countries which have uh a television.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: Um {disfmarker} So now it's time uh for us to uh going uh to discuss a little uh things. You can think about uh experience with a remote control uh yourself, at home. What you think might be uh a useful uh new feature. What uh what can distinguish our new trendy remote control from all the others. Um so uh let's uh let's uh discuss a little. I'm gonna join you at the table. {vocalsound} Well what what's the most uh important thing at a remote controlUser Interface: Um well I think the most important thing of a remote control is that you can switch channels. And my opinion is you should keep it as basic as possible. Uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay. So not a not a remote control who uh uh which can uh can be used for television and a D_V_D_ and radio and {disfmarker} Or just only {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah. I think so. Uh but I have some points. Can I show them on the on the big screen MaybeProject Manager: If you have them on uh {disfmarker} I can uh {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah. Yeah, can uh have a little fun then, before we uh dig in really to the hard stuff.Marketing: Okay. {vocalsound}Project Manager: That kind of thing. Would you start with drawing your uh favourite animalMarketing: Um, yeah. I don't know really how it works. But maybe you can show us firstProject Manager: {vocalsound} Okay, okay. Yeah, okay. Drawing goes with uh this thing. Do not touch your hand on uh this little uh thingy here. That's uh important.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: So hold it uh like this.User Interface: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Marketing: You g you get electrocuted or {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah, kinda. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: So, {vocalsound} um {disfmarker} You must p p uh push a little uh {disfmarker} Good. Because {disfmarker} And uh wait uh wait a few seconds. It's not uh fully real-time, so uh watch it.User Interface: Ach. {gap}Project Manager: Oh yeah. Well I'm gonna paint in the red.User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Oh.User Interface: Ooph.Project Manager: That's the background colour. {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Well, undo. Um {disfmarker} The pen No. One minute please. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah, that's the one. Well, five. Okay. {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} My favourite animal huhIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: It's like Pictionary {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah, you can guess what it is.Marketing: The the one who says it first {vocalsound} gets a raise.Project Manager: {vocalsound} May uh paint uh next.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: It's a pork {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} No, it's not an orc. {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: You don't see it uh at the earsMarketing: Mm yeah, I have it at home. {vocalsound}Project Manager: You have an orc at homeUser Interface: Very artistic.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Thank you.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: So it's a cat. {vocalsound}Marketing: What's it calledProject Manager: Simba.'Cause uh we have a cat at Yeah. W with this paper it's too mu too expensive. {vocalsound}Project Manager: But what is he uhUser Interface: Too expensive, yeah.Project Manager: Is it a rabbitIndustrial Designer: Yes. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Do you have a rabbit at homeMarketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: No.Marketing: It's a rabbit with uh broken legs {vocalsound}User Interface: A green rabbit.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} No. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Is it a white rabbit f It's the white rabbit from The Matrix.Industrial Designer: Yeah, exactly. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay, then yeah.User Interface: There, the g white green rabbit.Industrial Designer: So.User Interface: {vocalsound} He's a little bit stoned there. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} Uh I figured this is a pretty b good impression of a rabbit.Marketing: Yeah. It will do.Industrial Designer: Uh uh {disfmarker} Uh well.Project Manager: Okay. Finishing touch and then we're going further.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Project Manager Uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: YeahIndustrial Designer: Where does the pen go Just uh {disfmarker}Marketing: Have you been uh counting the timeProject Manager: Yeah, a little. {vocalsound}Marketing: Okay. Let's go on then.Project Manager: Well, I think the dog is the the most uh artistic.Industrial Designer: Uh I figured the rabbit was actually the most uh impressive. {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Don't choose for youself.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Oh, sorry. {vocalsound}Project Manager: That's selfish. Okay, now we're gonna dig into the to the serious stuff.Marketing: It's pretty abstract.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Uh the selling price for the remote will be uh twenty five Euro, and the production cost uh may not be more than uh twenty and a half Euro. So uh from my point of view, I don't think it's uh gonna be very uh very high tech, high definition, uh ultra modern uh kinda remote, for twelve uh fift uh twelve and a half Euro.Marketing: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Uh the profit we must make with uh the new all. Some basic things we co we want to going to do. Uh I think that's well uh {disfmarker} Yeah. Will come in handy.Marketing: Mm yeah.User Interface: Yeah.Marketing: I don't know. You decide. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: You're the Project Manager.Project Manager: W {vocalsound} He says {disfmarker}User Interface: if the technical functions have to be designed, I I've gotta know for what kind of machines they will be.Project Manager: Yeah.User Interface: Or do we use it a text screen Or uh will it be with uh with bluetooth or {disfmarker}Project Manager: Well, th that's that's really a step further. But if you say uh {vocalsound} is it uh uh one way or multi-purpose, that's a {disfmarker}User Interface: Okay. Mm-hmm.Marketing: Uh tha that's a same step further.Project Manager: WhyIndustrial Designer: Yeah, actually it is.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: WhyIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Then looking at individual components,Marketing: Uh.Industrial Designer: so that's actually a f step further.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: Like we all have a list of uh things that has to b that have to be in it, or how it has to be like. And then in the next meeting we decideProject Manager: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Yeah, we can take it from there.Marketing: w what it's gonna be.Project Manager: Okay.Industrial Designer: Yeah, I agree uh, we can take it from there.Marketing: A And then you s then you can delete uhIndustrial Designer: Or edit.Marketing: the o the obsolete uh details.Project Manager: Okay. So uhMarketing: I think.Project Manager: each individually i individually uh must think on what's uh at uh his point of view is the most important. And uh then we're going to fit uh all the pieces together the next meeting.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: I must finish off now,Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: so it's over. You uh will receive specific specific instructions uh by your personal coach. And I see you in uh thirty minutes. Thank you.User Interface: Okay.Industrial Designer: Okay, cheers.User Interface: Sorry.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Be careful.Marketing: Damn.User Interface: Yes.Marketing: Success {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah. No. Come up. little bit uh expensive. Um {disfmarker} And something like an L_C_D_ screen.User Interface: For what purposeMarketing: Um uh like I said here um {disfmarker} Maybe it's easy. It's nice as an added feature feature, that um, {vocalsound} when you're on a certain channel, you can see on the L_C_D_ screen uh what programmes are coming up or {disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay. So it be uh a multi-purpose uh very technically uh high uhMarketing: From my point of view, yeah.Project Manager: remote Yeah, it must be really uh innovative, technical-wiseMarketing: Yeah, it has to be uh {disfmarker} Yeah, our company is very uh good in making new innovative uh things.Project Manager: Yeah. So yeah, I I agree with you.User Interface: {vocalsound} We {disfmarker}Marketing: So i i i iProject Manager: So we must focus on things who are really uh really add something to uh to {disfmarker}Marketing: To the current market.Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: Look, {vocalsound} you got some cheap uh remote controls there. They just uh {disfmarker} Yeah, you got a dozen of'em.Project Manager: No.Marketing: But when you enter a new market with a remote control andProject Manager: Mm-hmm.Marketing: uh wanna gain market shareProject Manager: Yeah.Marketing: you have to do something special, I think.Project Manager: Yeah. But we have to keep an eye that it's {disfmarker} Uh at the beginning of such a project, it's it's it's very uh cool to talk about, well, this would be cool, that would be cool.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Uh but we must not uh lose uh sight of the the user uh uh friendly uh {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah, of course.User Interface: And and the price. {gap}Marketing: But it's {disfmarker} But but this is just from marketing uh aspect.Project Manager: Yeah okay. Yeah. Okay.Marketing: I don't know anything about user interface or {vocalsound} design.User Interface: {vocalsound} Okay.Project Manager:

What did the group discuss about new remote control features

User Interface believed the most important function is to switch channels, and so it would be better to keep the remote control as basic as possible. Marketing proposed that the remote control had to be multi-purpose to be competitive among current products. Project Manager agreed to do something special on the product, but PM also pointed out being user-friendly was also of importance.

can uh have a little fun then, before we uh dig in really to the hard stuff.Marketing: Okay. {vocalsound}Project Manager: That kind of thing. Would you start with drawing your uh favourite animalMarketing: Um, yeah. I don't know really how it works. But maybe you can show us firstProject Manager: {vocalsound} Okay, okay. Yeah, okay. Drawing goes with uh this thing. Do not touch your hand on uh this little uh thingy here. That's uh important.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: So hold it uh like this.User Interface: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Marketing: You g you get electrocuted or {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah, kinda. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: So, {vocalsound} um {disfmarker} You must p p uh push a little uh {disfmarker} Good. Because {disfmarker} And uh wait uh wait a few seconds. It's not uh fully real-time, so uh watch it.User Interface: Ach. {gap}Project Manager: Oh yeah. Well I'm gonna paint in the red.User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Oh.User Interface: Ooph.Project Manager: That's the background colour. {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Well, undo. Um {disfmarker} The pen No. One minute please. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah, that's the one. Well, five. Okay. {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} My favourite animal huhIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: It's like Pictionary {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah, you can guess what it is.Marketing: The the one who says it first {vocalsound} gets a raise.Project Manager: {vocalsound} May uh paint uh next.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: It's a pork {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} No, it's not an orc. {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: You don't see it uh at the earsMarketing: Mm yeah, I have it at home. {vocalsound}Project Manager: You have an orc at homeUser Interface: Very artistic.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Thank you.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: So it's a cat. {vocalsound}Marketing: What's it calledProject Manager: Simba.'Cause uh we have a cat at remote is uh fifty million Euro. So that's a lot. We have to sell uh a lot of uh {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah, how much is itMarketing: Like how muchUser Interface: Hundred million uh remotes or somethingProject Manager: Uh I think uh w when the selling price is twenty five, uh uh you got two million, two million remotes.User Interface: Oh yeah.Industrial Designer: Twenty million. Two million, oh yeah, two million. Yeah.Project Manager: But our marketing range is uh, market range is international. So we have uh virtually the whole world we can sell uh we can sell our r remotes to. At least that uh countries which have uh a television.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: Um {disfmarker} So now it's time uh for us to uh going uh to discuss a little uh things. You can think about uh experience with a remote control uh yourself, at home. What you think might be uh a useful uh new feature. What uh what can distinguish our new trendy remote control from all the others. Um so uh let's uh let's uh discuss a little. I'm gonna join you at the table. {vocalsound} Well what what's the most uh important thing at a remote controlUser Interface: Um well I think the most important thing of a remote control is that you can switch channels. And my opinion is you should keep it as basic as possible. Uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay. So not a not a remote control who uh uh which can uh can be used for television and a D_V_D_ and radio and {disfmarker} Or just only {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah. I think so. Uh but I have some points. Can I show them on the on the big screen MaybeProject Manager: If you have them on uh {disfmarker} I can uh {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah. Yeah, Yeah. W with this paper it's too mu too expensive. {vocalsound}Project Manager: But what is he uhUser Interface: Too expensive, yeah.Project Manager: Is it a rabbitIndustrial Designer: Yes. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Do you have a rabbit at homeMarketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: No.Marketing: It's a rabbit with uh broken legs {vocalsound}User Interface: A green rabbit.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} No. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Is it a white rabbit f It's the white rabbit from The Matrix.Industrial Designer: Yeah, exactly. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay, then yeah.User Interface: There, the g white green rabbit.Industrial Designer: So.User Interface: {vocalsound} He's a little bit stoned there. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} Uh I figured this is a pretty b good impression of a rabbit.Marketing: Yeah. It will do.Industrial Designer: Uh uh {disfmarker} Uh well.Project Manager: Okay. Finishing touch and then we're going further.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Project Manager Uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: YeahIndustrial Designer: Where does the pen go Just uh {disfmarker}Marketing: Have you been uh counting the timeProject Manager: Yeah, a little. {vocalsound}Marketing: Okay. Let's go on then.Project Manager: Well, I think the dog is the the most uh artistic.Industrial Designer: Uh I figured the rabbit was actually the most uh impressive. {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Don't choose for youself.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Oh, sorry. {vocalsound}Project Manager: That's selfish. Okay, now we're gonna dig into the to the serious stuff.Marketing: It's pretty abstract.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Uh the selling price for the remote will be uh twenty five Euro, and the production cost uh may not be more than uh twenty and a half Euro. So uh from my point of view, I don't think it's uh gonna be very uh very high tech, high definition, uh ultra modern uh kinda remote, for twelve uh fift uh twelve and a half Euro.Marketing: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Uh the profit we must make with uh the new little bit uh expensive. Um {disfmarker} And something like an L_C_D_ screen.User Interface: For what purposeMarketing: Um uh like I said here um {disfmarker} Maybe it's easy. It's nice as an added feature feature, that um, {vocalsound} when you're on a certain channel, you can see on the L_C_D_ screen uh what programmes are coming up or {disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay. So it be uh a multi-purpose uh very technically uh high uhMarketing: From my point of view, yeah.Project Manager: remote Yeah, it must be really uh innovative, technical-wiseMarketing: Yeah, it has to be uh {disfmarker} Yeah, our company is very uh good in making new innovative uh things.Project Manager: Yeah. So yeah, I I agree with you.User Interface: {vocalsound} We {disfmarker}Marketing: So i i i iProject Manager: So we must focus on things who are really uh really add something to uh to {disfmarker}Marketing: To the current market.Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: Look, {vocalsound} you got some cheap uh remote controls there. They just uh {disfmarker} Yeah, you got a dozen of'em.Project Manager: No.Marketing: But when you enter a new market with a remote control andProject Manager: Mm-hmm.Marketing: uh wanna gain market shareProject Manager: Yeah.Marketing: you have to do something special, I think.Project Manager: Yeah. But we have to keep an eye that it's {disfmarker} Uh at the beginning of such a project, it's it's it's very uh cool to talk about, well, this would be cool, that would be cool.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Uh but we must not uh lose uh sight of the the user uh uh friendly uh {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah, of course.User Interface: And and the price. {gap}Marketing: But it's {disfmarker} But but this is just from marketing uh aspect.Project Manager: Yeah okay. Yeah. Okay.Marketing: I don't know anything about user interface or {vocalsound} design.User Interface: {vocalsound} Okay.Project Manager: all. Some basic things we co we want to going to do. Uh I think that's well uh {disfmarker} Yeah. Will come in handy.Marketing: Mm yeah.User Interface: Yeah.Marketing: I don't know. You decide. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: You're the Project Manager.Project Manager: W {vocalsound} He says {disfmarker}User Interface: if the technical functions have to be designed, I I've gotta know for what kind of machines they will be.Project Manager: Yeah.User Interface: Or do we use it a text screen Or uh will it be with uh with bluetooth or {disfmarker}Project Manager: Well, th that's that's really a step further. But if you say uh {vocalsound} is it uh uh one way or multi-purpose, that's a {disfmarker}User Interface: Okay. Mm-hmm.Marketing: Uh tha that's a same step further.Project Manager: WhyIndustrial Designer: Yeah, actually it is.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: WhyIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Then looking at individual components,Marketing: Uh.Industrial Designer: so that's actually a f step further.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: Like we all have a list of uh things that has to b that have to be in it, or how it has to be like. And then in the next meeting we decideProject Manager: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Yeah, we can take it from there.Marketing: w what it's gonna be.Project Manager: Okay.Industrial Designer: Yeah, I agree uh, we can take it from there.Marketing: A And then you s then you can delete uhIndustrial Designer: Or edit.Marketing: the o the obsolete uh details.Project Manager: Okay. So uhMarketing: I think.Project Manager: each individually i individually uh must think on what's uh at uh his point of view is the most important. And uh then we're going to fit uh all the pieces together the next meeting.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: I must finish off now,Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: so it's over. You uh will receive specific specific instructions uh by your personal coach. And I see you in uh thirty minutes. Thank you.User Interface: Okay.Industrial Designer: Okay, cheers.User Interface: Sorry.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Be careful.Marketing: Damn.User Interface: Yes.Marketing: Success {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah. No. Come up.

What did Project Manager think about new remote control features proposed by Marketing

Marketing put forward innovative ideas including using radio waves and bluetooth. In the proposal, some potential problems about high cost and being limited to marketing aspects had also been mentioned by Marketing. Based on this, PM agreed that those ideas could help the product to be special and competitive, but PM also pinpointed that such a product required strong support of high technology. Besides, being user-friendly should not be ignored.

can uh have a little fun then, before we uh dig in really to the hard stuff.Marketing: Okay. {vocalsound}Project Manager: That kind of thing. Would you start with drawing your uh favourite animalMarketing: Um, yeah. I don't know really how it works. But maybe you can show us firstProject Manager: {vocalsound} Okay, okay. Yeah, okay. Drawing goes with uh this thing. Do not touch your hand on uh this little uh thingy here. That's uh important.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: So hold it uh like this.User Interface: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Marketing: You g you get electrocuted or {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah, kinda. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: So, {vocalsound} um {disfmarker} You must p p uh push a little uh {disfmarker} Good. Because {disfmarker} And uh wait uh wait a few seconds. It's not uh fully real-time, so uh watch it.User Interface: Ach. {gap}Project Manager: Oh yeah. Well I'm gonna paint in the red.User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Oh.User Interface: Ooph.Project Manager: That's the background colour. {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Well, undo. Um {disfmarker} The pen No. One minute please. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah, that's the one. Well, five. Okay. {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} My favourite animal huhIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: It's like Pictionary {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah, you can guess what it is.Marketing: The the one who says it first {vocalsound} gets a raise.Project Manager: {vocalsound} May uh paint uh next.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: It's a pork {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} No, it's not an orc. {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: You don't see it uh at the earsMarketing: Mm yeah, I have it at home. {vocalsound}Project Manager: You have an orc at homeUser Interface: Very artistic.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Thank you.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: So it's a cat. {vocalsound}Marketing: What's it calledProject Manager: Simba.'Cause uh we have a cat at Yeah. W with this paper it's too mu too expensive. {vocalsound}Project Manager: But what is he uhUser Interface: Too expensive, yeah.Project Manager: Is it a rabbitIndustrial Designer: Yes. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Do you have a rabbit at homeMarketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: No.Marketing: It's a rabbit with uh broken legs {vocalsound}User Interface: A green rabbit.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} No. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Is it a white rabbit f It's the white rabbit from The Matrix.Industrial Designer: Yeah, exactly. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay, then yeah.User Interface: There, the g white green rabbit.Industrial Designer: So.User Interface: {vocalsound} He's a little bit stoned there. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} Uh I figured this is a pretty b good impression of a rabbit.Marketing: Yeah. It will do.Industrial Designer: Uh uh {disfmarker} Uh well.Project Manager: Okay. Finishing touch and then we're going further.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Project Manager Uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: YeahIndustrial Designer: Where does the pen go Just uh {disfmarker}Marketing: Have you been uh counting the timeProject Manager: Yeah, a little. {vocalsound}Marketing: Okay. Let's go on then.Project Manager: Well, I think the dog is the the most uh artistic.Industrial Designer: Uh I figured the rabbit was actually the most uh impressive. {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Don't choose for youself.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Oh, sorry. {vocalsound}Project Manager: That's selfish. Okay, now we're gonna dig into the to the serious stuff.Marketing: It's pretty abstract.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Uh the selling price for the remote will be uh twenty five Euro, and the production cost uh may not be more than uh twenty and a half Euro. So uh from my point of view, I don't think it's uh gonna be very uh very high tech, high definition, uh ultra modern uh kinda remote, for twelve uh fift uh twelve and a half Euro.Marketing: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Uh the profit we must make with uh the new remote is uh fifty million Euro. So that's a lot. We have to sell uh a lot of uh {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah, how much is itMarketing: Like how muchUser Interface: Hundred million uh remotes or somethingProject Manager: Uh I think uh w when the selling price is twenty five, uh uh you got two million, two million remotes.User Interface: Oh yeah.Industrial Designer: Twenty million. Two million, oh yeah, two million. Yeah.Project Manager: But our marketing range is uh, market range is international. So we have uh virtually the whole world we can sell uh we can sell our r remotes to. At least that uh countries which have uh a television.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: Um {disfmarker} So now it's time uh for us to uh going uh to discuss a little uh things. You can think about uh experience with a remote control uh yourself, at home. What you think might be uh a useful uh new feature. What uh what can distinguish our new trendy remote control from all the others. Um so uh let's uh let's uh discuss a little. I'm gonna join you at the table. {vocalsound} Well what what's the most uh important thing at a remote controlUser Interface: Um well I think the most important thing of a remote control is that you can switch channels. And my opinion is you should keep it as basic as possible. Uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay. So not a not a remote control who uh uh which can uh can be used for television and a D_V_D_ and radio and {disfmarker} Or just only {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah. I think so. Uh but I have some points. Can I show them on the on the big screen MaybeProject Manager: If you have them on uh {disfmarker} I can uh {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah. Yeah, little bit uh expensive. Um {disfmarker} And something like an L_C_D_ screen.User Interface: For what purposeMarketing: Um uh like I said here um {disfmarker} Maybe it's easy. It's nice as an added feature feature, that um, {vocalsound} when you're on a certain channel, you can see on the L_C_D_ screen uh what programmes are coming up or {disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay. So it be uh a multi-purpose uh very technically uh high uhMarketing: From my point of view, yeah.Project Manager: remote Yeah, it must be really uh innovative, technical-wiseMarketing: Yeah, it has to be uh {disfmarker} Yeah, our company is very uh good in making new innovative uh things.Project Manager: Yeah. So yeah, I I agree with you.User Interface: {vocalsound} We {disfmarker}Marketing: So i i i iProject Manager: So we must focus on things who are really uh really add something to uh to {disfmarker}Marketing: To the current market.Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: Look, {vocalsound} you got some cheap uh remote controls there. They just uh {disfmarker} Yeah, you got a dozen of'em.Project Manager: No.Marketing: But when you enter a new market with a remote control andProject Manager: Mm-hmm.Marketing: uh wanna gain market shareProject Manager: Yeah.Marketing: you have to do something special, I think.Project Manager: Yeah. But we have to keep an eye that it's {disfmarker} Uh at the beginning of such a project, it's it's it's very uh cool to talk about, well, this would be cool, that would be cool.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Uh but we must not uh lose uh sight of the the user uh uh friendly uh {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah, of course.User Interface: And and the price. {gap}Marketing: But it's {disfmarker} But but this is just from marketing uh aspect.Project Manager: Yeah okay. Yeah. Okay.Marketing: I don't know anything about user interface or {vocalsound} design.User Interface: {vocalsound} Okay.Project Manager: on this uh this programme. {vocalsound} This is called a smart boardMarketing: {vocalsound} Speaks for itself.Project Manager: thing uh {disfmarker} Yeah, it speaks for itself. Um and as you uh may have heard, the documents in the shared folder uh can be uh showed on this screen. Not in y the the My Documents. So if you wanna show something, put it in the shared folder. {vocalsound} Uh {disfmarker} This uh is {gap} very straightforward, with the save, the print, the undo, the blank, the select, the pen. Well, I don't uh gonna explain it all,Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: because I think you know uh how it works. Um we must not forget uh everything we draw on here, uh all must be saved. We we may not delete anything. So uh if you have uh drawn something, save it. Never delete it. That's a very important uh thing.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay. Uh little uh little {vocalsound} kinda exercise to uh know each other.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} At uh the white board on the left. Every uh every one of us uh must draw our favourite animal,Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} and uh tell uh tell us why we uh had uh chosen that animal. Uh important is that we use different colours, {vocalsound} and uh different pen widths. Widths. Widths.Marketing: I have a question.Project Manager: YesMarketing: Um this exercise, um did the company board tell you to do it,Project Manager: Yeah.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: or uh did you just make it up yourselfProject Manager: No no no. It's uh it's uh {vocalsound} {disfmarker} I I I must do it.Marketing: It's part of the introduction,Project Manager: Yeah, yeah, yeah.'Cause we uh really don't know each other,Marketing: okay.Project Manager: and uh it's kinda new. So getting used to each other, we

What did Marketing recommend to do and why when discussing new useful features of the new remote control

Marketing recommended developing a multi-purpose remote control because most of the remote controls on the market were made just for one purpose. Besides, Marketing suggested to use some other technology, such as radio waves and bluetooth, than infrared because it could be easily affected by obstacles. Thirdly, a nice added feature was to inform users of the coming programmes. Marketing conceived a high-tech remote control to be competitive among other products.

remote is uh fifty million Euro. So that's a lot. We have to sell uh a lot of uh {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah, how much is itMarketing: Like how muchUser Interface: Hundred million uh remotes or somethingProject Manager: Uh I think uh w when the selling price is twenty five, uh uh you got two million, two million remotes.User Interface: Oh yeah.Industrial Designer: Twenty million. Two million, oh yeah, two million. Yeah.Project Manager: But our marketing range is uh, market range is international. So we have uh virtually the whole world we can sell uh we can sell our r remotes to. At least that uh countries which have uh a television.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: Um {disfmarker} So now it's time uh for us to uh going uh to discuss a little uh things. You can think about uh experience with a remote control uh yourself, at home. What you think might be uh a useful uh new feature. What uh what can distinguish our new trendy remote control from all the others. Um so uh let's uh let's uh discuss a little. I'm gonna join you at the table. {vocalsound} Well what what's the most uh important thing at a remote controlUser Interface: Um well I think the most important thing of a remote control is that you can switch channels. And my opinion is you should keep it as basic as possible. Uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay. So not a not a remote control who uh uh which can uh can be used for television and a D_V_D_ and radio and {disfmarker} Or just only {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah. I think so. Uh but I have some points. Can I show them on the on the big screen MaybeProject Manager: If you have them on uh {disfmarker} I can uh {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah. Yeah, can uh have a little fun then, before we uh dig in really to the hard stuff.Marketing: Okay. {vocalsound}Project Manager: That kind of thing. Would you start with drawing your uh favourite animalMarketing: Um, yeah. I don't know really how it works. But maybe you can show us firstProject Manager: {vocalsound} Okay, okay. Yeah, okay. Drawing goes with uh this thing. Do not touch your hand on uh this little uh thingy here. That's uh important.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: So hold it uh like this.User Interface: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Marketing: You g you get electrocuted or {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah, kinda. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: So, {vocalsound} um {disfmarker} You must p p uh push a little uh {disfmarker} Good. Because {disfmarker} And uh wait uh wait a few seconds. It's not uh fully real-time, so uh watch it.User Interface: Ach. {gap}Project Manager: Oh yeah. Well I'm gonna paint in the red.User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Oh.User Interface: Ooph.Project Manager: That's the background colour. {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Well, undo. Um {disfmarker} The pen No. One minute please. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah, that's the one. Well, five. Okay. {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} My favourite animal huhIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: It's like Pictionary {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah, you can guess what it is.Marketing: The the one who says it first {vocalsound} gets a raise.Project Manager: {vocalsound} May uh paint uh next.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: It's a pork {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} No, it's not an orc. {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: You don't see it uh at the earsMarketing: Mm yeah, I have it at home. {vocalsound}Project Manager: You have an orc at homeUser Interface: Very artistic.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Thank you.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: So it's a cat. {vocalsound}Marketing: What's it calledProject Manager: Simba.'Cause uh we have a cat at Yeah. W with this paper it's too mu too expensive. {vocalsound}Project Manager: But what is he uhUser Interface: Too expensive, yeah.Project Manager: Is it a rabbitIndustrial Designer: Yes. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Do you have a rabbit at homeMarketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: No.Marketing: It's a rabbit with uh broken legs {vocalsound}User Interface: A green rabbit.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} No. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Is it a white rabbit f It's the white rabbit from The Matrix.Industrial Designer: Yeah, exactly. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay, then yeah.User Interface: There, the g white green rabbit.Industrial Designer: So.User Interface: {vocalsound} He's a little bit stoned there. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} Uh I figured this is a pretty b good impression of a rabbit.Marketing: Yeah. It will do.Industrial Designer: Uh uh {disfmarker} Uh well.Project Manager: Okay. Finishing touch and then we're going further.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Project Manager Uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: YeahIndustrial Designer: Where does the pen go Just uh {disfmarker}Marketing: Have you been uh counting the timeProject Manager: Yeah, a little. {vocalsound}Marketing: Okay. Let's go on then.Project Manager: Well, I think the dog is the the most uh artistic.Industrial Designer: Uh I figured the rabbit was actually the most uh impressive. {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Don't choose for youself.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Oh, sorry. {vocalsound}Project Manager: That's selfish. Okay, now we're gonna dig into the to the serious stuff.Marketing: It's pretty abstract.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Uh the selling price for the remote will be uh twenty five Euro, and the production cost uh may not be more than uh twenty and a half Euro. So uh from my point of view, I don't think it's uh gonna be very uh very high tech, high definition, uh ultra modern uh kinda remote, for twelve uh fift uh twelve and a half Euro.Marketing: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Uh the profit we must make with uh the new little bit uh expensive. Um {disfmarker} And something like an L_C_D_ screen.User Interface: For what purposeMarketing: Um uh like I said here um {disfmarker} Maybe it's easy. It's nice as an added feature feature, that um, {vocalsound} when you're on a certain channel, you can see on the L_C_D_ screen uh what programmes are coming up or {disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay. So it be uh a multi-purpose uh very technically uh high uhMarketing: From my point of view, yeah.Project Manager: remote Yeah, it must be really uh innovative, technical-wiseMarketing: Yeah, it has to be uh {disfmarker} Yeah, our company is very uh good in making new innovative uh things.Project Manager: Yeah. So yeah, I I agree with you.User Interface: {vocalsound} We {disfmarker}Marketing: So i i i iProject Manager: So we must focus on things who are really uh really add something to uh to {disfmarker}Marketing: To the current market.Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: Look, {vocalsound} you got some cheap uh remote controls there. They just uh {disfmarker} Yeah, you got a dozen of'em.Project Manager: No.Marketing: But when you enter a new market with a remote control andProject Manager: Mm-hmm.Marketing: uh wanna gain market shareProject Manager: Yeah.Marketing: you have to do something special, I think.Project Manager: Yeah. But we have to keep an eye that it's {disfmarker} Uh at the beginning of such a project, it's it's it's very uh cool to talk about, well, this would be cool, that would be cool.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Uh but we must not uh lose uh sight of the the user uh uh friendly uh {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah, of course.User Interface: And and the price. {gap}Marketing: But it's {disfmarker} But but this is just from marketing uh aspect.Project Manager: Yeah okay. Yeah. Okay.Marketing: I don't know anything about user interface or {vocalsound} design.User Interface: {vocalsound} Okay.Project Manager: all. Some basic things we co we want to going to do. Uh I think that's well uh {disfmarker} Yeah. Will come in handy.Marketing: Mm yeah.User Interface: Yeah.Marketing: I don't know. You decide. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: You're the Project Manager.Project Manager: W {vocalsound} He says {disfmarker}User Interface: if the technical functions have to be designed, I I've gotta know for what kind of machines they will be.Project Manager: Yeah.User Interface: Or do we use it a text screen Or uh will it be with uh with bluetooth or {disfmarker}Project Manager: Well, th that's that's really a step further. But if you say uh {vocalsound} is it uh uh one way or multi-purpose, that's a {disfmarker}User Interface: Okay. Mm-hmm.Marketing: Uh tha that's a same step further.Project Manager: WhyIndustrial Designer: Yeah, actually it is.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: WhyIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Then looking at individual components,Marketing: Uh.Industrial Designer: so that's actually a f step further.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: Like we all have a list of uh things that has to b that have to be in it, or how it has to be like. And then in the next meeting we decideProject Manager: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Yeah, we can take it from there.Marketing: w what it's gonna be.Project Manager: Okay.Industrial Designer: Yeah, I agree uh, we can take it from there.Marketing: A And then you s then you can delete uhIndustrial Designer: Or edit.Marketing: the o the obsolete uh details.Project Manager: Okay. So uhMarketing: I think.Project Manager: each individually i individually uh must think on what's uh at uh his point of view is the most important. And uh then we're going to fit uh all the pieces together the next meeting.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: I must finish off now,Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: so it's over. You uh will receive specific specific instructions uh by your personal coach. And I see you in uh thirty minutes. Thank you.User Interface: Okay.Industrial Designer: Okay, cheers.User Interface: Sorry.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Be careful.Marketing: Damn.User Interface: Yes.Marketing: Success {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah. No. Come up.

What did the group plan to discuss for the next meeting

Project Manager gave each team member different tasks. Project Manager asked Industrial Designer to look at the working design, User Interface to work on the technical functions and Marketing to be responsible for user requirements. User Interface recommended to achieve some agreement on whether to use the new remote control for multiple systems, and User Interface also asked whether to use a text screen or bluetooth. Besides, Project Manager also demanded that everyone in the group should individually ponder the most important thing in this project from their own perspective.

Yeah. W with this paper it's too mu too expensive. {vocalsound}Project Manager: But what is he uhUser Interface: Too expensive, yeah.Project Manager: Is it a rabbitIndustrial Designer: Yes. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Do you have a rabbit at homeMarketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: No.Marketing: It's a rabbit with uh broken legs {vocalsound}User Interface: A green rabbit.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} No. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Is it a white rabbit f It's the white rabbit from The Matrix.Industrial Designer: Yeah, exactly. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay, then yeah.User Interface: There, the g white green rabbit.Industrial Designer: So.User Interface: {vocalsound} He's a little bit stoned there. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} Uh I figured this is a pretty b good impression of a rabbit.Marketing: Yeah. It will do.Industrial Designer: Uh uh {disfmarker} Uh well.Project Manager: Okay. Finishing touch and then we're going further.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Project Manager Uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: YeahIndustrial Designer: Where does the pen go Just uh {disfmarker}Marketing: Have you been uh counting the timeProject Manager: Yeah, a little. {vocalsound}Marketing: Okay. Let's go on then.Project Manager: Well, I think the dog is the the most uh artistic.Industrial Designer: Uh I figured the rabbit was actually the most uh impressive. {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Don't choose for youself.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Oh, sorry. {vocalsound}Project Manager: That's selfish. Okay, now we're gonna dig into the to the serious stuff.Marketing: It's pretty abstract.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Uh the selling price for the remote will be uh twenty five Euro, and the production cost uh may not be more than uh twenty and a half Euro. So uh from my point of view, I don't think it's uh gonna be very uh very high tech, high definition, uh ultra modern uh kinda remote, for twelve uh fift uh twelve and a half Euro.Marketing: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Uh the profit we must make with uh the new remote is uh fifty million Euro. So that's a lot. We have to sell uh a lot of uh {disfmarker}User Interface: Yeah, how much is itMarketing: Like how muchUser Interface: Hundred million uh remotes or somethingProject Manager: Uh I think uh w when the selling price is twenty five, uh uh you got two million, two million remotes.User Interface: Oh yeah.Industrial Designer: Twenty million. Two million, oh yeah, two million. Yeah.Project Manager: But our marketing range is uh, market range is international. So we have uh virtually the whole world we can sell uh we can sell our r remotes to. At least that uh countries which have uh a television.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: Um {disfmarker} So now it's time uh for us to uh going uh to discuss a little uh things. You can think about uh experience with a remote control uh yourself, at home. What you think might be uh a useful uh new feature. What uh what can distinguish our new trendy remote control from all the others. Um so uh let's uh let's uh discuss a little. I'm gonna join you at the table. {vocalsound} Well what what's the most uh important thing at a remote controlUser Interface: Um well I think the most important thing of a remote control is that you can switch channels. And my opinion is you should keep it as basic as possible. Uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay. So not a not a remote control who uh uh which can uh can be used for television and a D_V_D_ and radio and {disfmarker} Or just only {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah. I think so. Uh but I have some points. Can I show them on the on the big screen MaybeProject Manager: If you have them on uh {disfmarker} I can uh {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah. Yeah, little bit uh expensive. Um {disfmarker} And something like an L_C_D_ screen.User Interface: For what purposeMarketing: Um uh like I said here um {disfmarker} Maybe it's easy. It's nice as an added feature feature, that um, {vocalsound} when you're on a certain channel, you can see on the L_C_D_ screen uh what programmes are coming up or {disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay. So it be uh a multi-purpose uh very technically uh high uhMarketing: From my point of view, yeah.Project Manager: remote Yeah, it must be really uh innovative, technical-wiseMarketing: Yeah, it has to be uh {disfmarker} Yeah, our company is very uh good in making new innovative uh things.Project Manager: Yeah. So yeah, I I agree with you.User Interface: {vocalsound} We {disfmarker}Marketing: So i i i iProject Manager: So we must focus on things who are really uh really add something to uh to {disfmarker}Marketing: To the current market.Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: Look, {vocalsound} you got some cheap uh remote controls there. They just uh {disfmarker} Yeah, you got a dozen of'em.Project Manager: No.Marketing: But when you enter a new market with a remote control andProject Manager: Mm-hmm.Marketing: uh wanna gain market shareProject Manager: Yeah.Marketing: you have to do something special, I think.Project Manager: Yeah. But we have to keep an eye that it's {disfmarker} Uh at the beginning of such a project, it's it's it's very uh cool to talk about, well, this would be cool, that would be cool.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Uh but we must not uh lose uh sight of the the user uh uh friendly uh {disfmarker}Marketing: Yeah, of course.User Interface: And and the price. {gap}Marketing: But it's {disfmarker} But but this is just from marketing uh aspect.Project Manager: Yeah okay. Yeah. Okay.Marketing: I don't know anything about user interface or {vocalsound} design.User Interface: {vocalsound} Okay.Project Manager: can uh have a little fun then, before we uh dig in really to the hard stuff.Marketing: Okay. {vocalsound}Project Manager: That kind of thing. Would you start with drawing your uh favourite animalMarketing: Um, yeah. I don't know really how it works. But maybe you can show us firstProject Manager: {vocalsound} Okay, okay. Yeah, okay. Drawing goes with uh this thing. Do not touch your hand on uh this little uh thingy here. That's uh important.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: So hold it uh like this.User Interface: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Marketing: You g you get electrocuted or {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah, kinda. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: So, {vocalsound} um {disfmarker} You must p p uh push a little uh {disfmarker} Good. Because {disfmarker} And uh wait uh wait a few seconds. It's not uh fully real-time, so uh watch it.User Interface: Ach. {gap}Project Manager: Oh yeah. Well I'm gonna paint in the red.User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Oh.User Interface: Ooph.Project Manager: That's the background colour. {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Well, undo. Um {disfmarker} The pen No. One minute please. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah, that's the one. Well, five. Okay. {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} My favourite animal huhIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: It's like Pictionary {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yeah, you can guess what it is.Marketing: The the one who says it first {vocalsound} gets a raise.Project Manager: {vocalsound} May uh paint uh next.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: It's a pork {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} No, it's not an orc. {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: You don't see it uh at the earsMarketing: Mm yeah, I have it at home. {vocalsound}Project Manager: You have an orc at homeUser Interface: Very artistic.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Thank you.Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: So it's a cat. {vocalsound}Marketing: What's it calledProject Manager: Simba.'Cause uh we have a cat at all. Some basic things we co we want to going to do. Uh I think that's well uh {disfmarker} Yeah. Will come in handy.Marketing: Mm yeah.User Interface: Yeah.Marketing: I don't know. You decide. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay.Marketing: You're the Project Manager.Project Manager: W {vocalsound} He says {disfmarker}User Interface: if the technical functions have to be designed, I I've gotta know for what kind of machines they will be.Project Manager: Yeah.User Interface: Or do we use it a text screen Or uh will it be with uh with bluetooth or {disfmarker}Project Manager: Well, th that's that's really a step further. But if you say uh {vocalsound} is it uh uh one way or multi-purpose, that's a {disfmarker}User Interface: Okay. Mm-hmm.Marketing: Uh tha that's a same step further.Project Manager: WhyIndustrial Designer: Yeah, actually it is.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: WhyIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Then looking at individual components,Marketing: Uh.Industrial Designer: so that's actually a f step further.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: Yeah.Marketing: Like we all have a list of uh things that has to b that have to be in it, or how it has to be like. And then in the next meeting we decideProject Manager: Yeah.Industrial Designer: Yeah, we can take it from there.Marketing: w what it's gonna be.Project Manager: Okay.Industrial Designer: Yeah, I agree uh, we can take it from there.Marketing: A And then you s then you can delete uhIndustrial Designer: Or edit.Marketing: the o the obsolete uh details.Project Manager: Okay. So uhMarketing: I think.Project Manager: each individually i individually uh must think on what's uh at uh his point of view is the most important. And uh then we're going to fit uh all the pieces together the next meeting.Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: I must finish off now,Marketing: Yeah.Project Manager: so it's over. You uh will receive specific specific instructions uh by your personal coach. And I see you in uh thirty minutes. Thank you.User Interface: Okay.Industrial Designer: Okay, cheers.User Interface: Sorry.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Be careful.Marketing: Damn.User Interface: Yes.Marketing: Success {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah. No. Come up.

Summarize the whole meeting.

Project Manager gave a brief introduction of the new remote control project for television sets. During team building, team members got to know each other by drawing their favorite animals with technical devices. When it came to the financial targets, Project Manager planned that the remote control would be priced at 25 Euros on the premise of the 12. 5-Euro production cost, and the profit is targeted at 50 million Euros. The market range would be international. Then, ideas about new technical features of the remote control were proposed, such as radio waves and bluetooth, in order to distinguish the product from current ones. Finally, some general arrangements for the next meeting about user requirements and technical functions were made by Project Manager and each team member was required to think on the most important thing from their own point of view.

But I think, a anything at frame - level, even P - file, is too verbose.PhD F: OK. So {disfmarker}Grad C: I would use something tighter than P - files.PhD F: Do you {disfmarker} Are you familiar with itGrad C: So.PhD F: I haven't seen this particular format,PhD A: I mean, I've {disfmarker} I've used them.PhD F: but {disfmarker}PhD A: I don't know what their structure is.PhD F: OK.PhD A: I've forgot what the strPhD D: But, wait a minute, P - file for each frame is storing a vector of cepstral or PLP values,Grad C: It's whatever you want, actually.PhD D: right Right.Grad C: So that {disfmarker} what's nice about the P - file {disfmarker} It {disfmarker} i Built into it is the concept of {pause} frames, utterances, sentences, that sort of thing, that structure. And then also attached to it is an arbitrary vector of values. And it can take different types.PhD F: Oh.Grad C: So it {disfmarker} th they don't all have to be floats. You know, you can have integers and you can have doubles, and all that sort of stuff.PhD F: So that {disfmarker} that sounds {disfmarker} that sounds about what I wGrad C: Um. Right And it has a header {disfmarker} it has a header format that {pause} describes it {pause} to some extent. So, the only problem with it is it's actually storing the {pause} utterance numbers and the {pause} frame numbers in the file, even though they're always sequential. And so it does waste a lot of space.PhD A: Hmm.Grad C: But it's still a lot tighter than {disfmarker} than ASCII. And we have a lot of tools already to deal with it.PhD F: You do OK. Is there some documentation on this somewhereGrad C: Yeah, there's a ton of it. Man F: Yeah.Grad C: For word - level, it's alright.PhD F: Yeah. Definitely.PhD A: Mm - hmm.Grad C: For lower than word - level, you're talking about so much data that I just {disfmarker} I don't know. I don't know if that {disfmarker}PhD F: I mean, we actually have {disfmarker} So, one thing that Don is doing, is we're {disfmarker} we're running {disfmarker} For every frame, you get a pitch value,PhD D: Lattices are big, too.PhD F: and not only one pitch value but different kinds of pitch valuesGrad C: Yeah, I mean, for something like that I would use P - filePhD F: depending on {disfmarker}Grad C: or {disfmarker} or any frame - level stuff I would use P - file.PhD F: Meaning {disfmarker}Grad C: Uh, that's a {disfmarker} well, or something like it. It's ICS uh, ICSI has a format for frame - level representation of features. Um.PhD F: OK. That you could call {disfmarker} that you would tie into this representation with like an ID.Grad C: Right. Right. Or {disfmarker} or there's a {disfmarker} there's a particular way in XML to refer to external resources.PhD F: And {disfmarker} OK.Grad C: So you would say" refer to this external file" . Um, so that external file wouldn't be in {disfmarker}PhD F: So that might {disfmarker} that might work.PhD D: But what {disfmarker} what's the advantage of doing that versus just putting it into this formatGrad C: More compact, which I think is {disfmarker} is better.PhD D: Uh - huh.Grad C: I mean, if you did it at this {disfmarker}PhD F: I mean these are long meetings and with {disfmarker} for every frame,Grad C: You don't want to do it with that {disfmarker} Anything at frame - level you had better encode binaryPhD F: um {disfmarker}Grad C: or it's gonna pitch was rising, Andreas's pitch" . That kind of thing.Grad C: Right. I mean, that's gonna be {disfmarker} Is the rising pitch a {pause} feature, or is it gonna be in the same filePhD F: Well, the rising pitch will never be {pause} hand - annotated. So the {disfmarker} all the prosodic features are going to be automatically {disfmarker}Grad C: But the {disfmarker} I mean, that's gonna be hard regardless,PhD F: So they're gonna be in those {disfmarker}Grad C: right Because you're gonna have to write a program that goes through your feature file and looks for rising pitches.PhD A: Yeah.PhD F: So {disfmarker} Right. So normally what we would do is we would say" what do we wanna assign rising pitch to" Are we gonna assign it to words Are we gonna just assign it to sort of {disfmarker} when it's rising we have a begin - end rise representation But suppose we dump out this file and we say, uh, for every word we just classify it as, w you know, rise or fall or neitherGrad C: OK. Well, in that case you would add that to this {pause} formatPhD F: OK.Grad C: rPhD F: So we would basically be sort of, um, taking the format and enriching it with things that we wanna query in relation to the words that are already in the file,Grad C: Right.PhD F: and then querying it.PhD A: You want sort of a grep that's {disfmarker} that works at the structural {disfmarker} on the structural representation.PhD F: OK.Grad C: You have that. There's a {pause} standard again in XML, specifically for searching XML documents {disfmarker} structured X - XML documents, where you can specify both the content and the structural position.PhD A: Yeah, but it's {disfmarker} it's not clear that that's {disfmarker} a more compact format than what we used before.Grad C: Right.PhD F: Just cuz you've got {vocalsound} ten channels or whatever and two hours of a meeting. It's {disfmarker} it's a lot of {disfmarker}Grad C: Huge.PhD A: Now {disfmarker} now how would you {disfmarker} how would you represent, um, multiple speakers in this framework Were {disfmarker} You would just represent them as {disfmarker}Grad C: Um,PhD A: You would have like a speaker tag or somethingGrad C: there's a spea speaker tag up at the top which identifies them and then each utt the way I had it is each turn or each utterance, {comment} I don't even remember now, had a speaker ID tag attached to it.PhD A: Mm - hmm. OK.Grad C: And in this format you would have a different tag, which {disfmarker} which would, uh, be linked to the link. So {disfmarker} so somewhere else you would have another thing {pause} that would be,PhD F: Yeah.Grad C: um {disfmarker} Let's see, would it be a node or a link Um {disfmarker} And so {disfmarker} so this one would have, um, an ID is link {disfmarker} {comment} link seventy - four or something like that.PhD A: Mm - hmm.Grad C: And then somewhere up here you would have a link that {disfmarker} that, uh, you know, was referencing L - seventy - four and had speaker Adam.PhD A: Is iGrad C: You know, or something like that.PhD F: Actually, it's the channel, I think, that {disfmarker}PhD A: Well, channel or speaker or whatever.PhD F: I mean, w yeah, channel is what the channelized output outPhD A: It doesn't {disfmarker}Grad C: This isn't quite right.PhD A: Right.Grad C: I have to look at it again.PhD F: Yeah, but {disfmarker}PhD A: But {disfmarker} but {disfmarker} so how in the NIST - pages and, uh, source code, and me.PhD F: OK, great. So, I mean, that sounds good. I {disfmarker} I was just looking for something {disfmarker} I'm not a database person, but something sort of standard enough that, you know, if we start using this we can give it out, other people can work on it,Grad C: Yeah, it's not standard.PhD F: or {disfmarker} {comment} Is it {disfmarker}Grad C: I mean, it's something that we developed at ICSI. But, uh {disfmarker}PhD F: But it's {pause} been used hereGrad C: But it's been used herePhD F: and people've {disfmarker}Grad C: and {disfmarker} and, you know, we have a {pause} well - configured system that you can distribute for free, and {disfmarker}PhD D: I mean, it must be the equivalent of whatever you guys used to store feat your computed features in, rightPhD F: OK.PhD A: Yeah, th we have {disfmarker} Actually, we {disfmarker} we use a generalization of the {disfmarker} the Sphere format.PhD D: Mmm.PhD A: Um, but {disfmarker} Yeah, so there is something like that but it's, um, probably not as sophistGrad C: Well, what does H T K do for featuresPhD D: And I think there's {disfmarker}Grad C: Or does it even have a concept of featuresPhD A: They ha it has its own {disfmarker} I mean, Entropic has their own feature format that's called, like, S - SD or some so SF or something like that.PhD F: Yeah.Grad C: I'm just wondering, would it be worth while to use that insteadPhD D: Yeah.PhD A: HmmPhD F: Yeah. Th - this is exactly the kind of decision {disfmarker} It's just whatever {disfmarker}PhD D: But, I mean, people don't typically share this kind of stuff, rightPhD A: Right.Grad C: They generate their own.PhD D: I mean {disfmarker} Yeah.PhD F: Actually,

Summarize the discussion about the current XML format to link up different components in data

C developed an XML format that links together utterances based on time tags, essentially creating a lattice. The XML format would be divided into many sections, each with its own ID and timeline tag. The XML format could be modified to deal with smaller linguistic units since that would only entail changing the timestamps. Despite being easy to use, the format was not efficient for smaller linguistic units, like phones. It would work for word units, at best.

But I think, a anything at frame - level, even P - file, is too verbose.PhD F: OK. So {disfmarker}Grad C: I would use something tighter than P - files.PhD F: Do you {disfmarker} Are you familiar with itGrad C: So.PhD F: I haven't seen this particular format,PhD A: I mean, I've {disfmarker} I've used them.PhD F: but {disfmarker}PhD A: I don't know what their structure is.PhD F: OK.PhD A: I've forgot what the strPhD D: But, wait a minute, P - file for each frame is storing a vector of cepstral or PLP values,Grad C: It's whatever you want, actually.PhD D: right Right.Grad C: So that {disfmarker} what's nice about the P - file {disfmarker} It {disfmarker} i Built into it is the concept of {pause} frames, utterances, sentences, that sort of thing, that structure. And then also attached to it is an arbitrary vector of values. And it can take different types.PhD F: Oh.Grad C: So it {disfmarker} th they don't all have to be floats. You know, you can have integers and you can have doubles, and all that sort of stuff.PhD F: So that {disfmarker} that sounds {disfmarker} that sounds about what I wGrad C: Um. Right And it has a header {disfmarker} it has a header format that {pause} describes it {pause} to some extent. So, the only problem with it is it's actually storing the {pause} utterance numbers and the {pause} frame numbers in the file, even though they're always sequential. And so it does waste a lot of space.PhD A: Hmm.Grad C: But it's still a lot tighter than {disfmarker} than ASCII. And we have a lot of tools already to deal with it.PhD F: You do OK. Is there some documentation on this somewhereGrad C: Yeah, there's a ton of it. Man F: Yeah.Grad C: For word - level, it's alright.PhD F: Yeah. Definitely.PhD A: Mm - hmm.Grad C: For lower than word - level, you're talking about so much data that I just {disfmarker} I don't know. I don't know if that {disfmarker}PhD F: I mean, we actually have {disfmarker} So, one thing that Don is doing, is we're {disfmarker} we're running {disfmarker} For every frame, you get a pitch value,PhD D: Lattices are big, too.PhD F: and not only one pitch value but different kinds of pitch valuesGrad C: Yeah, I mean, for something like that I would use P - filePhD F: depending on {disfmarker}Grad C: or {disfmarker} or any frame - level stuff I would use P - file.PhD F: Meaning {disfmarker}Grad C: Uh, that's a {disfmarker} well, or something like it. It's ICS uh, ICSI has a format for frame - level representation of features. Um.PhD F: OK. That you could call {disfmarker} that you would tie into this representation with like an ID.Grad C: Right. Right. Or {disfmarker} or there's a {disfmarker} there's a particular way in XML to refer to external resources.PhD F: And {disfmarker} OK.Grad C: So you would say" refer to this external file" . Um, so that external file wouldn't be in {disfmarker}PhD F: So that might {disfmarker} that might work.PhD D: But what {disfmarker} what's the advantage of doing that versus just putting it into this formatGrad C: More compact, which I think is {disfmarker} is better.PhD D: Uh - huh.Grad C: I mean, if you did it at this {disfmarker}PhD F: I mean these are long meetings and with {disfmarker} for every frame,Grad C: You don't want to do it with that {disfmarker} Anything at frame - level you had better encode binaryPhD F: um {disfmarker}Grad C: or it's gonna pitch was rising, Andreas's pitch" . That kind of thing.Grad C: Right. I mean, that's gonna be {disfmarker} Is the rising pitch a {pause} feature, or is it gonna be in the same filePhD F: Well, the rising pitch will never be {pause} hand - annotated. So the {disfmarker} all the prosodic features are going to be automatically {disfmarker}Grad C: But the {disfmarker} I mean, that's gonna be hard regardless,PhD F: So they're gonna be in those {disfmarker}Grad C: right Because you're gonna have to write a program that goes through your feature file and looks for rising pitches.PhD A: Yeah.PhD F: So {disfmarker} Right. So normally what we would do is we would say" what do we wanna assign rising pitch to" Are we gonna assign it to words Are we gonna just assign it to sort of {disfmarker} when it's rising we have a begin - end rise representation But suppose we dump out this file and we say, uh, for every word we just classify it as, w you know, rise or fall or neitherGrad C: OK. Well, in that case you would add that to this {pause} formatPhD F: OK.Grad C: rPhD F: So we would basically be sort of, um, taking the format and enriching it with things that we wanna query in relation to the words that are already in the file,Grad C: Right.PhD F: and then querying it.PhD A: You want sort of a grep that's {disfmarker} that works at the structural {disfmarker} on the structural representation.PhD F: OK.Grad C: You have that. There's a {pause} standard again in XML, specifically for searching XML documents {disfmarker} structured X - XML documents, where you can specify both the content and the structural position.PhD A: Yeah, but it's {disfmarker} it's not clear that that's {disfmarker} - pages and, uh, source code, and me.PhD F: OK, great. So, I mean, that sounds good. I {disfmarker} I was just looking for something {disfmarker} I'm not a database person, but something sort of standard enough that, you know, if we start using this we can give it out, other people can work on it,Grad C: Yeah, it's not standard.PhD F: or {disfmarker} {comment} Is it {disfmarker}Grad C: I mean, it's something that we developed at ICSI. But, uh {disfmarker}PhD F: But it's {pause} been used hereGrad C: But it's been used herePhD F: and people've {disfmarker}Grad C: and {disfmarker} and, you know, we have a {pause} well - configured system that you can distribute for free, and {disfmarker}PhD D: I mean, it must be the equivalent of whatever you guys used to store feat your computed features in, rightPhD F: OK.PhD A: Yeah, th we have {disfmarker} Actually, we {disfmarker} we use a generalization of the {disfmarker} the Sphere format.PhD D: Mmm.PhD A: Um, but {disfmarker} Yeah, so there is something like that but it's, um, probably not as sophistGrad C: Well, what does H T K do for featuresPhD D: And I think there's {disfmarker}Grad C: Or does it even have a concept of featuresPhD A: They ha it has its own {disfmarker} I mean, Entropic has their own feature format that's called, like, S - SD or some so SF or something like that.PhD F: Yeah.Grad C: I'm just wondering, would it be worth while to use that insteadPhD D: Yeah.PhD A: HmmPhD F: Yeah. Th - this is exactly the kind of decision {disfmarker} It's just whatever {disfmarker}PhD D: But, I mean, people don't typically share this kind of stuff, rightPhD A: Right.Grad C: They generate their own.PhD D: I mean {disfmarker} Yeah.PhD F: Actually, a more compact format than what we used before.Grad C: Right.PhD F: Just cuz you've got {vocalsound} ten channels or whatever and two hours of a meeting. It's {disfmarker} it's a lot of {disfmarker}Grad C: Huge.PhD A: Now {disfmarker} now how would you {disfmarker} how would you represent, um, multiple speakers in this framework Were {disfmarker} You would just represent them as {disfmarker}Grad C: Um,PhD A: You would have like a speaker tag or somethingGrad C: there's a spea speaker tag up at the top which identifies them and then each utt the way I had it is each turn or each utterance, {comment} I don't even remember now, had a speaker ID tag attached to it.PhD A: Mm - hmm. OK.Grad C: And in this format you would have a different tag, which {disfmarker} which would, uh, be linked to the link. So {disfmarker} so somewhere else you would have another thing {pause} that would be,PhD F: Yeah.Grad C: um {disfmarker} Let's see, would it be a node or a link Um {disfmarker} And so {disfmarker} so this one would have, um, an ID is link {disfmarker} {comment} link seventy - four or something like that.PhD A: Mm - hmm.Grad C: And then somewhere up here you would have a link that {disfmarker} that, uh, you know, was referencing L - seventy - four and had speaker Adam.PhD A: Is iGrad C: You know, or something like that.PhD F: Actually, it's the channel, I think, that {disfmarker}PhD A: Well, channel or speaker or whatever.PhD F: I mean, w yeah, channel is what the channelized output outPhD A: It doesn't {disfmarker}Grad C: This isn't quite right.PhD A: Right.Grad C: I have to look at it again.PhD F: Yeah, but {disfmarker}PhD A: But {disfmarker} but {disfmarker} so how in the NIST

What did F think about the current XML format to link up different components in data

F was concerned about how the time labels would adjust to smaller phonetic units. F inquired if the time boundaries could be changed by propagating new information throughout the XML. F thought that they could configure different XML files to deal with different units, but it would lead to large file sizes.

But I think, a anything at frame - level, even P - file, is too verbose.PhD F: OK. So {disfmarker}Grad C: I would use something tighter than P - files.PhD F: Do you {disfmarker} Are you familiar with itGrad C: So.PhD F: I haven't seen this particular format,PhD A: I mean, I've {disfmarker} I've used them.PhD F: but {disfmarker}PhD A: I don't know what their structure is.PhD F: OK.PhD A: I've forgot what the strPhD D: But, wait a minute, P - file for each frame is storing a vector of cepstral or PLP values,Grad C: It's whatever you want, actually.PhD D: right Right.Grad C: So that {disfmarker} what's nice about the P - file {disfmarker} It {disfmarker} i Built into it is the concept of {pause} frames, utterances, sentences, that sort of thing, that structure. And then also attached to it is an arbitrary vector of values. And it can take different types.PhD F: Oh.Grad C: So it {disfmarker} th they don't all have to be floats. You know, you can have integers and you can have doubles, and all that sort of stuff.PhD F: So that {disfmarker} that sounds {disfmarker} that sounds about what I wGrad C: Um. Right And it has a header {disfmarker} it has a header format that {pause} describes it {pause} to some extent. So, the only problem with it is it's actually storing the {pause} utterance numbers and the {pause} frame numbers in the file, even though they're always sequential. And so it does waste a lot of space.PhD A: Hmm.Grad C: But it's still a lot tighter than {disfmarker} than ASCII. And we have a lot of tools already to deal with it.PhD F: You do OK. Is there some documentation on this somewhereGrad C: Yeah, there's a ton of it. Man F: Yeah.Grad C: For word - level, it's alright.PhD F: Yeah. Definitely.PhD A: Mm - hmm.Grad C: For lower than word - level, you're talking about so much data that I just {disfmarker} I don't know. I don't know if that {disfmarker}PhD F: I mean, we actually have {disfmarker} So, one thing that Don is doing, is we're {disfmarker} we're running {disfmarker} For every frame, you get a pitch value,PhD D: Lattices are big, too.PhD F: and not only one pitch value but different kinds of pitch valuesGrad C: Yeah, I mean, for something like that I would use P - filePhD F: depending on {disfmarker}Grad C: or {disfmarker} or any frame - level stuff I would use P - file.PhD F: Meaning {disfmarker}Grad C: Uh, that's a {disfmarker} well, or something like it. It's ICS uh, ICSI has a format for frame - level representation of features. Um.PhD F: OK. That you could call {disfmarker} that you would tie into this representation with like an ID.Grad C: Right. Right. Or {disfmarker} or there's a {disfmarker} there's a particular way in XML to refer to external resources.PhD F: And {disfmarker} OK.Grad C: So you would say" refer to this external file" . Um, so that external file wouldn't be in {disfmarker}PhD F: So that might {disfmarker} that might work.PhD D: But what {disfmarker} what's the advantage of doing that versus just putting it into this formatGrad C: More compact, which I think is {disfmarker} is better.PhD D: Uh - huh.Grad C: I mean, if you did it at this {disfmarker}PhD F: I mean these are long meetings and with {disfmarker} for every frame,Grad C: You don't want to do it with that {disfmarker} Anything at frame - level you had better encode binaryPhD F: um {disfmarker}Grad C: or it's gonna pitch was rising, Andreas's pitch" . That kind of thing.Grad C: Right. I mean, that's gonna be {disfmarker} Is the rising pitch a {pause} feature, or is it gonna be in the same filePhD F: Well, the rising pitch will never be {pause} hand - annotated. So the {disfmarker} all the prosodic features are going to be automatically {disfmarker}Grad C: But the {disfmarker} I mean, that's gonna be hard regardless,PhD F: So they're gonna be in those {disfmarker}Grad C: right Because you're gonna have to write a program that goes through your feature file and looks for rising pitches.PhD A: Yeah.PhD F: So {disfmarker} Right. So normally what we would do is we would say" what do we wanna assign rising pitch to" Are we gonna assign it to words Are we gonna just assign it to sort of {disfmarker} when it's rising we have a begin - end rise representation But suppose we dump out this file and we say, uh, for every word we just classify it as, w you know, rise or fall or neitherGrad C: OK. Well, in that case you would add that to this {pause} formatPhD F: OK.Grad C: rPhD F: So we would basically be sort of, um, taking the format and enriching it with things that we wanna query in relation to the words that are already in the file,Grad C: Right.PhD F: and then querying it.PhD A: You want sort of a grep that's {disfmarker} that works at the structural {disfmarker} on the structural representation.PhD F: OK.Grad C: You have that. There's a {pause} standard again in XML, specifically for searching XML documents {disfmarker} structured X - XML documents, where you can specify both the content and the structural position.PhD A: Yeah, but it's {disfmarker} it's not clear that that's {disfmarker} {nonvocalsound} start equals, um, you know, some node ID,PhD F: Yeah. So {disfmarker}Grad C: end equals some other node ID" , and then" type" would be" utterance" .PhD A: Hmm.Grad C: You know, so it's very similar.PhD F: So why would it be a {disfmarker} a waste to do it this way if it's similar enough that we can always translate itPhD D: It probably wouldn't be a waste. It would mean that at some point if we wanted to switch, we'd just have to translate everything.Grad C: Write a translator. But it se Since they are developing a big {disfmarker}PhD F: But it {disfmarker} but that sounds {disfmarker}PhD D: But that's {disfmarker} I don't think that's a big deal.PhD F: As long as it is {disfmarker}Grad C: they're developing a big infrastructure. And so it seems to me that if {disfmarker} if we want to use that, we might as well go directly to what they're doing, rather than {disfmarker}PhD A: If we want to {disfmarker} Do they already have something that's {disfmarker} that would be useful for us in placePhD D: Yeah. See, that's the question. I mean, how stable is their {disfmarker} Are they ready to go,Grad C: The {disfmarker} I looked at it {disfmarker}PhD D: or {disfmarker}Grad C: The last time I looked at it was a while ago, probably a year ago, uh, when we first started talking about this.PhD D: Hmm.Grad C: And at that time at least {vocalsound} it was still not very {pause} complete. And so, specifically they didn't have any external format representation at that time. They just had the sort of conceptual {pause} node {disfmarker} uh, annotated transcription graph, which I really liked. And that's exactly what this stuff is based on. Since then, they've developed their own external file a more compact format than what we used before.Grad C: Right.PhD F: Just cuz you've got {vocalsound} ten channels or whatever and two hours of a meeting. It's {disfmarker} it's a lot of {disfmarker}Grad C: Huge.PhD A: Now {disfmarker} now how would you {disfmarker} how would you represent, um, multiple speakers in this framework Were {disfmarker} You would just represent them as {disfmarker}Grad C: Um,PhD A: You would have like a speaker tag or somethingGrad C: there's a spea speaker tag up at the top which identifies them and then each utt the way I had it is each turn or each utterance, {comment} I don't even remember now, had a speaker ID tag attached to it.PhD A: Mm - hmm. OK.Grad C: And in this format you would have a different tag, which {disfmarker} which would, uh, be linked to the link. So {disfmarker} so somewhere else you would have another thing {pause} that would be,PhD F: Yeah.Grad C: um {disfmarker} Let's see, would it be a node or a link Um {disfmarker} And so {disfmarker} so this one would have, um, an ID is link {disfmarker} {comment} link seventy - four or something like that.PhD A: Mm - hmm.Grad C: And then somewhere up here you would have a link that {disfmarker} that, uh, you know, was referencing L - seventy - four and had speaker Adam.PhD A: Is iGrad C: You know, or something like that.PhD F: Actually, it's the channel, I think, that {disfmarker}PhD A: Well, channel or speaker or whatever.PhD F: I mean, w yeah, channel is what the channelized output outPhD A: It doesn't {disfmarker}Grad C: This isn't quite right.PhD A: Right.Grad C: I have to look at it again.PhD F: Yeah, but {disfmarker}PhD A: But {disfmarker} but {disfmarker} so how in the NIST

What did A think about the current XML format to link up different components in data

A had seen an example of this kind of XML format before. A thought that the time boundaries were nicely handled but believed that smaller linguistic units would drain too much memory. It was essentially like a lattice, in his opinion. Though, A did not seem too concerned with dealing with smaller linguistic units since the problem would not be encountered frequently.

I {disfmarker} I just {disfmarker} you know, we {disfmarker} we've done this stuff on prosodics and three or four places have asked for those prosodic files, and we just have an ASCII, uh, output of frame - by - frame.Grad C: Ah, right.PhD F: Which is fine, but it gets unwieldy to go in and {disfmarker} and query these files with really huge files.Grad C: Right.PhD F: I mean, we could do it. I was just thinking if there's something that {disfmarker} where all the frame values are {disfmarker}Grad C: And a and again, if you have a {disfmarker} if you have a two - hour - long meeting, that's gonna {disfmarker}PhD F: Hmm They're {disfmarker} they're fair they're quite large.Grad C: Yeah, I mean, they'd be emo enormous.PhD F: And these are for ten - minute Switchboard conversations,Grad C: Right.PhD F: and {disfmarker} So it's doable, it's just that you can only store a feature vector at frame - by - frame and it doesn't have any kind of,PhD D: Is {disfmarker} is the sharing part of this a pretty important {pause} considerationPhD F: um {disfmarker}PhD D: or does that just sort of, uh {disfmarker} a nice thing to havePhD F: I {disfmarker} I don't know enough about what we're gonna do with the data. But I thought it would be good to get something that we can {disfmarker} that other people can use or adopt for their own kinds of encoding. And just, I mean we have to use some we have to make some decision about what to do.Grad C: Yeah.PhD F: And especially for the prosody work, what {disfmarker} what it ends up being is you get features from the signal, and of course those change every time your alignments change. So you re - run of the turn, or you can {disfmarker} you know, any {disfmarker} any number of categories. But the fact is, you have it time - tagged in a way that's independent of the, uh, sp particular time bin that the word ends up in. If it's a large unit or a small unit, orPhD A: Mm - hmm.Postdoc E: we sh change the boundaries of the units, it's still unique and {disfmarker} and, uh, fits with the format,PhD F: Right.Postdoc E: flexible, all that.PhD A: Um, it would be nice {disfmarker} um, eh, gr this is sort of r regarding {disfmarker} uh, uh it's related but not directly germane to the topic of discussion, but, when it comes to annotations, um, you often find yourself in the situation where you have {pause} different annotations {pause} of the same, say, word sequence. OKPostdoc E: Yeah.PhD A: And sometimes the word sequences even differ slightly because they were edited s at one place but not the other.Postdoc E: Yeah.PhD A: So, once this data gets out there, some people might start annotating this for, I don't know, dialogue acts or, um, you know, topics or what the heck. You know, there's a zillion things that people might annotate this for. And the only thing that is really sort of common among all the versi the various versions of this data is the word sequence, or approximately.Postdoc E: Yep.PhD F: Or the time.PhD A: Or the times. But, see, if you'd annotate dialogue acts, you don't necessarily want to {disfmarker} or topics {disfmarker} you don't really want to be dealing with time - marks.PhD F: I guess.PhD A: You'd {disfmarker} it's much more efficient for them to just see the word sequence, rightPhD F: Mm - hmm.PhD A: I mean, most people aren't as a more compact format than what we used before.Grad C: Right.PhD F: Just cuz you've got {vocalsound} ten channels or whatever and two hours of a meeting. It's {disfmarker} it's a lot of {disfmarker}Grad C: Huge.PhD A: Now {disfmarker} now how would you {disfmarker} how would you represent, um, multiple speakers in this framework Were {disfmarker} You would just represent them as {disfmarker}Grad C: Um,PhD A: You would have like a speaker tag or somethingGrad C: there's a spea speaker tag up at the top which identifies them and then each utt the way I had it is each turn or each utterance, {comment} I don't even remember now, had a speaker ID tag attached to it.PhD A: Mm - hmm. OK.Grad C: And in this format you would have a different tag, which {disfmarker} which would, uh, be linked to the link. So {disfmarker} so somewhere else you would have another thing {pause} that would be,PhD F: Yeah.Grad C: um {disfmarker} Let's see, would it be a node or a link Um {disfmarker} And so {disfmarker} so this one would have, um, an ID is link {disfmarker} {comment} link seventy - four or something like that.PhD A: Mm - hmm.Grad C: And then somewhere up here you would have a link that {disfmarker} that, uh, you know, was referencing L - seventy - four and had speaker Adam.PhD A: Is iGrad C: You know, or something like that.PhD F: Actually, it's the channel, I think, that {disfmarker}PhD A: Well, channel or speaker or whatever.PhD F: I mean, w yeah, channel is what the channelized output outPhD A: It doesn't {disfmarker}Grad C: This isn't quite right.PhD A: Right.Grad C: I have to look at it again.PhD F: Yeah, but {disfmarker}PhD A: But {disfmarker} but {disfmarker} so how in the NIST of the words {disfmarker} where the words are concerned. We'd still have the {disfmarker} the merging issue maybe if coding were done independently of the {disfmarker}PhD A: And you're gonna get thatPostdoc E: But {disfmarker} but {disfmarker}PhD A: because if the data gets out, people will do all kinds of things to it. And, uh, s you know, several years from now you might want to look into, um, the prosody of referring expressions. And someone at the university of who knows where has annotated the referring expressions. So you want to get that annotation and bring it back in line with your data.Grad C: Right.PhD A: OKGrad C: But unfortunately they've also hand - edited it.Postdoc E: OK, then {disfmarker}PhD F: But they've also {disfmarker} Exactly. And so that's exactly what we should {disfmarker} somehow when you distribute the data, say that {disfmarker} you know, that {disfmarker} have some way of knowing how to merge it back in and asking people to try to do that.PhD A: Yeah.Grad C: Yep.PhD A: Right.Postdoc E: Well, then the {disfmarker}PhD D: What's {disfmarker} what's wrong with {pause} doing times I {disfmarker}Postdoc E: I agree. That was what I was wondering.PhD F: Uh, yeah, time is the {disfmarker}Grad C: Well,Postdoc E: Time is unique. You were saying that you didn't think we should {disfmarker}PhD F: Time is passing!PhD A: Time {disfmarker} time {disfmarker} times are ephemeral.Postdoc E: Andreas was saying {disfmarker} Yeah.Grad C: what if they haven't notated with them, timesPhD F: Yeah. He {disfmarker} he's a language modeling person, though.PhD A: Um {disfmarker}Grad C: So {disfmarker} so imagine {disfmarker} I think his {disfmarker} his example is a good one. Imagine that this person who developed the corpus of the referring expressions didn't include time.PhD A: Mm - hmm. Yeah.Grad C: He included F: Yeah.Grad C: For word - level, it's alright.PhD F: Yeah. Definitely.PhD A: Mm - hmm.Grad C: For lower than word - level, you're talking about so much data that I just {disfmarker} I don't know. I don't know if that {disfmarker}PhD F: I mean, we actually have {disfmarker} So, one thing that Don is doing, is we're {disfmarker} we're running {disfmarker} For every frame, you get a pitch value,PhD D: Lattices are big, too.PhD F: and not only one pitch value but different kinds of pitch valuesGrad C: Yeah, I mean, for something like that I would use P - filePhD F: depending on {disfmarker}Grad C: or {disfmarker} or any frame - level stuff I would use P - file.PhD F: Meaning {disfmarker}Grad C: Uh, that's a {disfmarker} well, or something like it. It's ICS uh, ICSI has a format for frame - level representation of features. Um.PhD F: OK. That you could call {disfmarker} that you would tie into this representation with like an ID.Grad C: Right. Right. Or {disfmarker} or there's a {disfmarker} there's a particular way in XML to refer to external resources.PhD F: And {disfmarker} OK.Grad C: So you would say" refer to this external file" . Um, so that external file wouldn't be in {disfmarker}PhD F: So that might {disfmarker} that might work.PhD D: But what {disfmarker} what's the advantage of doing that versus just putting it into this formatGrad C: More compact, which I think is {disfmarker} is better.PhD D: Uh - huh.Grad C: I mean, if you did it at this {disfmarker}PhD F: I mean these are long meetings and with {disfmarker} for every frame,Grad C: You don't want to do it with that {disfmarker} Anything at frame - level you had better encode binaryPhD F: um {disfmarker}Grad C: or it's gonna

Summarize the discussion about the disadvantages of ATLAS and other options

Since the team is familiar with Perl and a flat file format is easier, it was suggested that the cost of learning a new framework, like ATLAS, might be too high. It was suggested that ATLAS be used for the external file representation initially, and if it seems suitable, then it should be adopted in its entirety. P files were also discussed but the problem with them was that they could still get pretty big.

But I think, a anything at frame - level, even P - file, is too verbose.PhD F: OK. So {disfmarker}Grad C: I would use something tighter than P - files.PhD F: Do you {disfmarker} Are you familiar with itGrad C: So.PhD F: I haven't seen this particular format,PhD A: I mean, I've {disfmarker} I've used them.PhD F: but {disfmarker}PhD A: I don't know what their structure is.PhD F: OK.PhD A: I've forgot what the strPhD D: But, wait a minute, P - file for each frame is storing a vector of cepstral or PLP values,Grad C: It's whatever you want, actually.PhD D: right Right.Grad C: So that {disfmarker} what's nice about the P - file {disfmarker} It {disfmarker} i Built into it is the concept of {pause} frames, utterances, sentences, that sort of thing, that structure. And then also attached to it is an arbitrary vector of values. And it can take different types.PhD F: Oh.Grad C: So it {disfmarker} th they don't all have to be floats. You know, you can have integers and you can have doubles, and all that sort of stuff.PhD F: So that {disfmarker} that sounds {disfmarker} that sounds about what I wGrad C: Um. Right And it has a header {disfmarker} it has a header format that {pause} describes it {pause} to some extent. So, the only problem with it is it's actually storing the {pause} utterance numbers and the {pause} frame numbers in the file, even though they're always sequential. And so it does waste a lot of space.PhD A: Hmm.Grad C: But it's still a lot tighter than {disfmarker} than ASCII. And we have a lot of tools already to deal with it.PhD F: You do OK. Is there some documentation on this somewhereGrad C: Yeah, there's a ton of it. Man of the turn, or you can {disfmarker} you know, any {disfmarker} any number of categories. But the fact is, you have it time - tagged in a way that's independent of the, uh, sp particular time bin that the word ends up in. If it's a large unit or a small unit, orPhD A: Mm - hmm.Postdoc E: we sh change the boundaries of the units, it's still unique and {disfmarker} and, uh, fits with the format,PhD F: Right.Postdoc E: flexible, all that.PhD A: Um, it would be nice {disfmarker} um, eh, gr this is sort of r regarding {disfmarker} uh, uh it's related but not directly germane to the topic of discussion, but, when it comes to annotations, um, you often find yourself in the situation where you have {pause} different annotations {pause} of the same, say, word sequence. OKPostdoc E: Yeah.PhD A: And sometimes the word sequences even differ slightly because they were edited s at one place but not the other.Postdoc E: Yeah.PhD A: So, once this data gets out there, some people might start annotating this for, I don't know, dialogue acts or, um, you know, topics or what the heck. You know, there's a zillion things that people might annotate this for. And the only thing that is really sort of common among all the versi the various versions of this data is the word sequence, or approximately.Postdoc E: Yep.PhD F: Or the time.PhD A: Or the times. But, see, if you'd annotate dialogue acts, you don't necessarily want to {disfmarker} or topics {disfmarker} you don't really want to be dealing with time - marks.PhD F: I guess.PhD A: You'd {disfmarker} it's much more efficient for them to just see the word sequence, rightPhD F: Mm - hmm.PhD A: I mean, most people aren't as of the words {disfmarker} where the words are concerned. We'd still have the {disfmarker} the merging issue maybe if coding were done independently of the {disfmarker}PhD A: And you're gonna get thatPostdoc E: But {disfmarker} but {disfmarker}PhD A: because if the data gets out, people will do all kinds of things to it. And, uh, s you know, several years from now you might want to look into, um, the prosody of referring expressions. And someone at the university of who knows where has annotated the referring expressions. So you want to get that annotation and bring it back in line with your data.Grad C: Right.PhD A: OKGrad C: But unfortunately they've also hand - edited it.Postdoc E: OK, then {disfmarker}PhD F: But they've also {disfmarker} Exactly. And so that's exactly what we should {disfmarker} somehow when you distribute the data, say that {disfmarker} you know, that {disfmarker} have some way of knowing how to merge it back in and asking people to try to do that.PhD A: Yeah.Grad C: Yep.PhD A: Right.Postdoc E: Well, then the {disfmarker}PhD D: What's {disfmarker} what's wrong with {pause} doing times I {disfmarker}Postdoc E: I agree. That was what I was wondering.PhD F: Uh, yeah, time is the {disfmarker}Grad C: Well,Postdoc E: Time is unique. You were saying that you didn't think we should {disfmarker}PhD F: Time is passing!PhD A: Time {disfmarker} time {disfmarker} times are ephemeral.Postdoc E: Andreas was saying {disfmarker} Yeah.Grad C: what if they haven't notated with them, timesPhD F: Yeah. He {disfmarker} he's a language modeling person, though.PhD A: Um {disfmarker}Grad C: So {disfmarker} so imagine {disfmarker} I think his {disfmarker} his example is a good one. Imagine that this person who developed the corpus of the referring expressions didn't include time.PhD A: Mm - hmm. Yeah.Grad C: He included F: Yeah.Grad C: For word - level, it's alright.PhD F: Yeah. Definitely.PhD A: Mm - hmm.Grad C: For lower than word - level, you're talking about so much data that I just {disfmarker} I don't know. I don't know if that {disfmarker}PhD F: I mean, we actually have {disfmarker} So, one thing that Don is doing, is we're {disfmarker} we're running {disfmarker} For every frame, you get a pitch value,PhD D: Lattices are big, too.PhD F: and not only one pitch value but different kinds of pitch valuesGrad C: Yeah, I mean, for something like that I would use P - filePhD F: depending on {disfmarker}Grad C: or {disfmarker} or any frame - level stuff I would use P - file.PhD F: Meaning {disfmarker}Grad C: Uh, that's a {disfmarker} well, or something like it. It's ICS uh, ICSI has a format for frame - level representation of features. Um.PhD F: OK. That you could call {disfmarker} that you would tie into this representation with like an ID.Grad C: Right. Right. Or {disfmarker} or there's a {disfmarker} there's a particular way in XML to refer to external resources.PhD F: And {disfmarker} OK.Grad C: So you would say" refer to this external file" . Um, so that external file wouldn't be in {disfmarker}PhD F: So that might {disfmarker} that might work.PhD D: But what {disfmarker} what's the advantage of doing that versus just putting it into this formatGrad C: More compact, which I think is {disfmarker} is better.PhD D: Uh - huh.Grad C: I mean, if you did it at this {disfmarker}PhD F: I mean these are long meetings and with {disfmarker} for every frame,Grad C: You don't want to do it with that {disfmarker} Anything at frame - level you had better encode binaryPhD F: um {disfmarker}Grad C: or it's gonna - pages and, uh, source code, and me.PhD F: OK, great. So, I mean, that sounds good. I {disfmarker} I was just looking for something {disfmarker} I'm not a database person, but something sort of standard enough that, you know, if we start using this we can give it out, other people can work on it,Grad C: Yeah, it's not standard.PhD F: or {disfmarker} {comment} Is it {disfmarker}Grad C: I mean, it's something that we developed at ICSI. But, uh {disfmarker}PhD F: But it's {pause} been used hereGrad C: But it's been used herePhD F: and people've {disfmarker}Grad C: and {disfmarker} and, you know, we have a {pause} well - configured system that you can distribute for free, and {disfmarker}PhD D: I mean, it must be the equivalent of whatever you guys used to store feat your computed features in, rightPhD F: OK.PhD A: Yeah, th we have {disfmarker} Actually, we {disfmarker} we use a generalization of the {disfmarker} the Sphere format.PhD D: Mmm.PhD A: Um, but {disfmarker} Yeah, so there is something like that but it's, um, probably not as sophistGrad C: Well, what does H T K do for featuresPhD D: And I think there's {disfmarker}Grad C: Or does it even have a concept of featuresPhD A: They ha it has its own {disfmarker} I mean, Entropic has their own feature format that's called, like, S - SD or some so SF or something like that.PhD F: Yeah.Grad C: I'm just wondering, would it be worth while to use that insteadPhD D: Yeah.PhD A: HmmPhD F: Yeah. Th - this is exactly the kind of decision {disfmarker} It's just whatever {disfmarker}PhD D: But, I mean, people don't typically share this kind of stuff, rightPhD A: Right.Grad C: They generate their own.PhD D: I mean {disfmarker} Yeah.PhD F: Actually,

What did C think about the disadvantages of ATLAS and other options

C thought that other options have a big learning curve, which should be taken into account, and that a flat format works well. A flat file format may not be fast, but everyone can handle it. C believed that quick and dirty solutions should be balanced with long-term infrastructural solutions. For instance, Perl can be paired with external representations of ATLAS files to create a working system. C also suggested that alternatives to P files might be interesting too, though the disadvantage would, once again, be the learning curve.

of the turn, or you can {disfmarker} you know, any {disfmarker} any number of categories. But the fact is, you have it time - tagged in a way that's independent of the, uh, sp particular time bin that the word ends up in. If it's a large unit or a small unit, orPhD A: Mm - hmm.Postdoc E: we sh change the boundaries of the units, it's still unique and {disfmarker} and, uh, fits with the format,PhD F: Right.Postdoc E: flexible, all that.PhD A: Um, it would be nice {disfmarker} um, eh, gr this is sort of r regarding {disfmarker} uh, uh it's related but not directly germane to the topic of discussion, but, when it comes to annotations, um, you often find yourself in the situation where you have {pause} different annotations {pause} of the same, say, word sequence. OKPostdoc E: Yeah.PhD A: And sometimes the word sequences even differ slightly because they were edited s at one place but not the other.Postdoc E: Yeah.PhD A: So, once this data gets out there, some people might start annotating this for, I don't know, dialogue acts or, um, you know, topics or what the heck. You know, there's a zillion things that people might annotate this for. And the only thing that is really sort of common among all the versi the various versions of this data is the word sequence, or approximately.Postdoc E: Yep.PhD F: Or the time.PhD A: Or the times. But, see, if you'd annotate dialogue acts, you don't necessarily want to {disfmarker} or topics {disfmarker} you don't really want to be dealing with time - marks.PhD F: I guess.PhD A: You'd {disfmarker} it's much more efficient for them to just see the word sequence, rightPhD F: Mm - hmm.PhD A: I mean, most people aren't as But I think, a anything at frame - level, even P - file, is too verbose.PhD F: OK. So {disfmarker}Grad C: I would use something tighter than P - files.PhD F: Do you {disfmarker} Are you familiar with itGrad C: So.PhD F: I haven't seen this particular format,PhD A: I mean, I've {disfmarker} I've used them.PhD F: but {disfmarker}PhD A: I don't know what their structure is.PhD F: OK.PhD A: I've forgot what the strPhD D: But, wait a minute, P - file for each frame is storing a vector of cepstral or PLP values,Grad C: It's whatever you want, actually.PhD D: right Right.Grad C: So that {disfmarker} what's nice about the P - file {disfmarker} It {disfmarker} i Built into it is the concept of {pause} frames, utterances, sentences, that sort of thing, that structure. And then also attached to it is an arbitrary vector of values. And it can take different types.PhD F: Oh.Grad C: So it {disfmarker} th they don't all have to be floats. You know, you can have integers and you can have doubles, and all that sort of stuff.PhD F: So that {disfmarker} that sounds {disfmarker} that sounds about what I wGrad C: Um. Right And it has a header {disfmarker} it has a header format that {pause} describes it {pause} to some extent. So, the only problem with it is it's actually storing the {pause} utterance numbers and the {pause} frame numbers in the file, even though they're always sequential. And so it does waste a lot of space.PhD A: Hmm.Grad C: But it's still a lot tighter than {disfmarker} than ASCII. And we have a lot of tools already to deal with it.PhD F: You do OK. Is there some documentation on this somewhereGrad C: Yeah, there's a ton of it. Man of the words {disfmarker} where the words are concerned. We'd still have the {disfmarker} the merging issue maybe if coding were done independently of the {disfmarker}PhD A: And you're gonna get thatPostdoc E: But {disfmarker} but {disfmarker}PhD A: because if the data gets out, people will do all kinds of things to it. And, uh, s you know, several years from now you might want to look into, um, the prosody of referring expressions. And someone at the university of who knows where has annotated the referring expressions. So you want to get that annotation and bring it back in line with your data.Grad C: Right.PhD A: OKGrad C: But unfortunately they've also hand - edited it.Postdoc E: OK, then {disfmarker}PhD F: But they've also {disfmarker} Exactly. And so that's exactly what we should {disfmarker} somehow when you distribute the data, say that {disfmarker} you know, that {disfmarker} have some way of knowing how to merge it back in and asking people to try to do that.PhD A: Yeah.Grad C: Yep.PhD A: Right.Postdoc E: Well, then the {disfmarker}PhD D: What's {disfmarker} what's wrong with {pause} doing times I {disfmarker}Postdoc E: I agree. That was what I was wondering.PhD F: Uh, yeah, time is the {disfmarker}Grad C: Well,Postdoc E: Time is unique. You were saying that you didn't think we should {disfmarker}PhD F: Time is passing!PhD A: Time {disfmarker} time {disfmarker} times are ephemeral.Postdoc E: Andreas was saying {disfmarker} Yeah.Grad C: what if they haven't notated with them, timesPhD F: Yeah. He {disfmarker} he's a language modeling person, though.PhD A: Um {disfmarker}Grad C: So {disfmarker} so imagine {disfmarker} I think his {disfmarker} his example is a good one. Imagine that this person who developed the corpus of the referring expressions didn't include time.PhD A: Mm - hmm. Yeah.Grad C: He included F: Yeah.Grad C: For word - level, it's alright.PhD F: Yeah. Definitely.PhD A: Mm - hmm.Grad C: For lower than word - level, you're talking about so much data that I just {disfmarker} I don't know. I don't know if that {disfmarker}PhD F: I mean, we actually have {disfmarker} So, one thing that Don is doing, is we're {disfmarker} we're running {disfmarker} For every frame, you get a pitch value,PhD D: Lattices are big, too.PhD F: and not only one pitch value but different kinds of pitch valuesGrad C: Yeah, I mean, for something like that I would use P - filePhD F: depending on {disfmarker}Grad C: or {disfmarker} or any frame - level stuff I would use P - file.PhD F: Meaning {disfmarker}Grad C: Uh, that's a {disfmarker} well, or something like it. It's ICS uh, ICSI has a format for frame - level representation of features. Um.PhD F: OK. That you could call {disfmarker} that you would tie into this representation with like an ID.Grad C: Right. Right. Or {disfmarker} or there's a {disfmarker} there's a particular way in XML to refer to external resources.PhD F: And {disfmarker} OK.Grad C: So you would say" refer to this external file" . Um, so that external file wouldn't be in {disfmarker}PhD F: So that might {disfmarker} that might work.PhD D: But what {disfmarker} what's the advantage of doing that versus just putting it into this formatGrad C: More compact, which I think is {disfmarker} is better.PhD D: Uh - huh.Grad C: I mean, if you did it at this {disfmarker}PhD F: I mean these are long meetings and with {disfmarker} for every frame,Grad C: You don't want to do it with that {disfmarker} Anything at frame - level you had better encode binaryPhD F: um {disfmarker}Grad C: or it's gonna - pages and, uh, source code, and me.PhD F: OK, great. So, I mean, that sounds good. I {disfmarker} I was just looking for something {disfmarker} I'm not a database person, but something sort of standard enough that, you know, if we start using this we can give it out, other people can work on it,Grad C: Yeah, it's not standard.PhD F: or {disfmarker} {comment} Is it {disfmarker}Grad C: I mean, it's something that we developed at ICSI. But, uh {disfmarker}PhD F: But it's {pause} been used hereGrad C: But it's been used herePhD F: and people've {disfmarker}Grad C: and {disfmarker} and, you know, we have a {pause} well - configured system that you can distribute for free, and {disfmarker}PhD D: I mean, it must be the equivalent of whatever you guys used to store feat your computed features in, rightPhD F: OK.PhD A: Yeah, th we have {disfmarker} Actually, we {disfmarker} we use a generalization of the {disfmarker} the Sphere format.PhD D: Mmm.PhD A: Um, but {disfmarker} Yeah, so there is something like that but it's, um, probably not as sophistGrad C: Well, what does H T K do for featuresPhD D: And I think there's {disfmarker}Grad C: Or does it even have a concept of featuresPhD A: They ha it has its own {disfmarker} I mean, Entropic has their own feature format that's called, like, S - SD or some so SF or something like that.PhD F: Yeah.Grad C: I'm just wondering, would it be worth while to use that insteadPhD D: Yeah.PhD A: HmmPhD F: Yeah. Th - this is exactly the kind of decision {disfmarker} It's just whatever {disfmarker}PhD D: But, I mean, people don't typically share this kind of stuff, rightPhD A: Right.Grad C: They generate their own.PhD D: I mean {disfmarker} Yeah.PhD F: Actually,

What did F think about the disadvantages of ATLAS and other options

F wanted to ensure that prosodic features could be dealt with at the level of small linguistic units. F proposed that they be attached to the word or segment level with the option of extracting smaller units. This would allow the team to keep what they have without starting over.

I {disfmarker} I just {disfmarker} you know, we {disfmarker} we've done this stuff on prosodics and three or four places have asked for those prosodic files, and we just have an ASCII, uh, output of frame - by - frame.Grad C: Ah, right.PhD F: Which is fine, but it gets unwieldy to go in and {disfmarker} and query these files with really huge files.Grad C: Right.PhD F: I mean, we could do it. I was just thinking if there's something that {disfmarker} where all the frame values are {disfmarker}Grad C: And a and again, if you have a {disfmarker} if you have a two - hour - long meeting, that's gonna {disfmarker}PhD F: Hmm They're {disfmarker} they're fair they're quite large.Grad C: Yeah, I mean, they'd be emo enormous.PhD F: And these are for ten - minute Switchboard conversations,Grad C: Right.PhD F: and {disfmarker} So it's doable, it's just that you can only store a feature vector at frame - by - frame and it doesn't have any kind of,PhD D: Is {disfmarker} is the sharing part of this a pretty important {pause} considerationPhD F: um {disfmarker}PhD D: or does that just sort of, uh {disfmarker} a nice thing to havePhD F: I {disfmarker} I don't know enough about what we're gonna do with the data. But I thought it would be good to get something that we can {disfmarker} that other people can use or adopt for their own kinds of encoding. And just, I mean we have to use some we have to make some decision about what to do.Grad C: Yeah.PhD F: And especially for the prosody work, what {disfmarker} what it ends up being is you get features from the signal, and of course those change every time your alignments change. So you re - run Grad C: Yeah, we had a long discussion about how much w how easy we want to make it for people to bleep things out. So {disfmarker} Morgan wants to make it hard.PhD D: It {disfmarker} it doesn't {disfmarker}Grad C: Did {disfmarker} did {disfmarker} did it {disfmarker} I didn't even check yesterday whether it was moving.PhD D: It didn't move yesterday either when I started it.Grad C: So.PhD D: So I don't know if it doesn't like both of us {disfmarker}Grad C: Channel three Channel threePhD D: You know, I discovered something yesterday on these, um, wireless ones.Grad B: Channel two.Grad C: Mm - hmmPhD D: You can tell if it's picking up {pause} breath noise and stuff.Grad C: Yeah, it has a little indicator on it {disfmarker} on the AF.PhD D: Mm - hmm. So if you {disfmarker} yeah, if you breathe under {disfmarker} breathe and then you see AF go off, then you know {pause} it's p picking up your mouth noise.PhD F: Oh, that's good. Cuz we have a lot of breath noises.Grad C: Yep. Test.PhD F: In fact, if you listen to just the channels of people not talking, it's like" @ @" . It's very disgustGrad C: What Did you see Hannibal recently or somethingPhD F: Sorry. Exactly. It's very disconcerting. OK. So, um,Grad C:PhD F: I was gonna try to get out of here, like, in half an hour, um, cuz I really appreciate people coming, and {vocalsound} the main thing that I was gonna ask people to help with today is {pause} to give input on what kinds of database format we should {pause} use in starting to link up things like word transcripts and annotations of word transcripts, so anything that transcribers or discourse coders or whatever put in the signal, {vocalsound} a more compact format than what we used before.Grad C: Right.PhD F: Just cuz you've got {vocalsound} ten channels or whatever and two hours of a meeting. It's {disfmarker} it's a lot of {disfmarker}Grad C: Huge.PhD A: Now {disfmarker} now how would you {disfmarker} how would you represent, um, multiple speakers in this framework Were {disfmarker} You would just represent them as {disfmarker}Grad C: Um,PhD A: You would have like a speaker tag or somethingGrad C: there's a spea speaker tag up at the top which identifies them and then each utt the way I had it is each turn or each utterance, {comment} I don't even remember now, had a speaker ID tag attached to it.PhD A: Mm - hmm. OK.Grad C: And in this format you would have a different tag, which {disfmarker} which would, uh, be linked to the link. So {disfmarker} so somewhere else you would have another thing {pause} that would be,PhD F: Yeah.Grad C: um {disfmarker} Let's see, would it be a node or a link Um {disfmarker} And so {disfmarker} so this one would have, um, an ID is link {disfmarker} {comment} link seventy - four or something like that.PhD A: Mm - hmm.Grad C: And then somewhere up here you would have a link that {disfmarker} that, uh, you know, was referencing L - seventy - four and had speaker Adam.PhD A: Is iGrad C: You know, or something like that.PhD F: Actually, it's the channel, I think, that {disfmarker}PhD A: Well, channel or speaker or whatever.PhD F: I mean, w yeah, channel is what the channelized output outPhD A: It doesn't {disfmarker}Grad C: This isn't quite right.PhD A: Right.Grad C: I have to look at it again.PhD F: Yeah, but {disfmarker}PhD A: But {disfmarker} but {disfmarker} so how in the NIST of the words {disfmarker} where the words are concerned. We'd still have the {disfmarker} the merging issue maybe if coding were done independently of the {disfmarker}PhD A: And you're gonna get thatPostdoc E: But {disfmarker} but {disfmarker}PhD A: because if the data gets out, people will do all kinds of things to it. And, uh, s you know, several years from now you might want to look into, um, the prosody of referring expressions. And someone at the university of who knows where has annotated the referring expressions. So you want to get that annotation and bring it back in line with your data.Grad C: Right.PhD A: OKGrad C: But unfortunately they've also hand - edited it.Postdoc E: OK, then {disfmarker}PhD F: But they've also {disfmarker} Exactly. And so that's exactly what we should {disfmarker} somehow when you distribute the data, say that {disfmarker} you know, that {disfmarker} have some way of knowing how to merge it back in and asking people to try to do that.PhD A: Yeah.Grad C: Yep.PhD A: Right.Postdoc E: Well, then the {disfmarker}PhD D: What's {disfmarker} what's wrong with {pause} doing times I {disfmarker}Postdoc E: I agree. That was what I was wondering.PhD F: Uh, yeah, time is the {disfmarker}Grad C: Well,Postdoc E: Time is unique. You were saying that you didn't think we should {disfmarker}PhD F: Time is passing!PhD A: Time {disfmarker} time {disfmarker} times are ephemeral.Postdoc E: Andreas was saying {disfmarker} Yeah.Grad C: what if they haven't notated with them, timesPhD F: Yeah. He {disfmarker} he's a language modeling person, though.PhD A: Um {disfmarker}Grad C: So {disfmarker} so imagine {disfmarker} I think his {disfmarker} his example is a good one. Imagine that this person who developed the corpus of the referring expressions didn't include time.PhD A: Mm - hmm. Yeah.Grad C: He included format do we express {vocalsound} a hierarchical relationship between, um, say, an utterance and the words within it So how do you {pause} tell {pause} that {pause} these are the words that belong to that utteranceGrad C: Um, you would have another structure lower down than this that would be saying they're all belonging to this ID.PhD A: Mm - hmm.PhD D: So each thing refers to the {pause} utterance that it belongs to.Grad C: Right. And then each utterance could refer to a turn,PhD D: So it's {disfmarker} it's not hi it's sort of bottom - up.Grad C: and each turn could refer to something higher up.PhD F: And what if you actually have {disfmarker} So right now what you have as utterance, um, the closest thing that comes out of the channelized is the stuff between the segment boundaries that the transcribers put in or that Thilo put in, which may or may not actually be, like, a s it's usually not {disfmarker} um, the beginning and end of a sentence, say.Grad C: Well, that's why I didn't call it" sentence" .PhD F: So, right. Um, so it's like a segment or something.Grad C: Yeah.PhD F: So, I mean, I assume this is possible, that if you have {disfmarker} someone annotates the punctuation or whatever when they transcribe, you can say, you know, from {disfmarker} for {disfmarker} from the c beginning of the sentence to the end of the sentence, from the annotations, this is a unit, even though it never actually {disfmarker} i It's only a unit by virtue of the annotations {pause} at the word - level.Grad C: Sure. I mean, so you would {disfmarker} you would have yet another tag.PhD F: And then that would get a tag somehow.Grad C: You'd have another tag which

Summarize the whole meeting

Meeting participants wanted to agree upon a standard database to link up different components of the transcripts. The current idea was to use an XML script, but it quickly seemed that other options, like a pfile or ATLAS, are more suitable. The reason being that they would make it easier to deal with different linguistic units, like frames and utterances. Eventually, the team was skeptical of using something that would be hard to learn, like ATLAS. Nonetheless, they wanted to explore their options. The meeting finished with some discussion about handling annotations.

uh in the process of designing a remote control.User Interface: Is it for uh for putting a {disfmarker} for logos, no.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay.User Interface: {vocalsound} That's {disfmarker}Project Manager: Let's move on. So {disfmarker} Here the uh financial objective of our project. That is to say to to have a production cost lower than twelve point five Euros and have a selling price of twice that price t in order to target a profe profit of uh fifty uh million Euros.User Interface: I is there a matter for a new remote controlProject Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah if it's trendy, original I d fulfil the user needs.User Interface: Is it uh a single device remote control or is it a multi-device remote controlProject Manager: We have to discuss that point.User Interface: AhProject Manager: On {disfmarker}User Interface: this is not defined at allProject Manager: yeah you you can suggest points like this. So what what {disfmarker}User Interface: Ah, okay.Project Manager: so we have to decide for example if it can control one device or multiple. So what's {disfmarker} what are your ideas about thatUser Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Maybe I can have the {disfmarker} your opinion from the marketing sideUser Interface: Well uh do we sell other stuff Uh if if we bundle the remote control with something uh to sell then it could be a single device, otherwise it could be programmable one otherwise who would buy a remote control from us.Project Manager: Okay, so if it selled uh by its own i it it would rather be for multiple device.User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Do you agreeIndustrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: Yeah. So maybe it should be for multiple devices. And uh do you have any ideas um of uh design ideas or any uh uh technical requirement we we should uh fulfilIndustrial identify the main user needs, the technical function the remote control should fulfil. And then we will move to f conceptual design where we'll specify the different component involved, what kind of user interf interface we want and what are the different uh trend in user interface and stuff like that.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: And then the desired devi design will consist in uh specifically implementing {vocalsound} and detailing the choice we've uh made in the second point. So I will now ask you which is very important for the design of a new remote control for to uh each of us to to draw uh your favourite animal on the white board.User Interface: {vocalsound} What an original idea.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Do you have any idea of which animal you want to show us {vocalsound}User Interface: Orangutan.Project Manager: Okay {vocalsound} that's good.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: No no nProject Manager: {vocalsound} n n {gap}User Interface: Can I give you theProject Manager: You should {disfmarker}User Interface: {disfmarker} no But I don't have to say anything. When I'm drawing the orangutan.Project Manager: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} If you want to react uh about this wonderful drawing uh {vocalsound} I'll let you uh comment.User Interface: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: It's an abstract drawing of an orangutan.Project Manager: Okay it's an abstract drawing.User Interface: Yes.Project Manager: I think it's nice and original. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} You should write y the name I think. {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: I don't have a red colour. Usually orangutans have red hair so this is a very important but I don't have red pen, so {disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay.User Interface: {vocalsound} Yes.Project Manager: You want to draw something Christine {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Okay uh sorry. You have to imagine a little bit {vocalsound} um.Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: This Interface: {vocalsound} That's that's quite cool, but uh of course we {disfmarker} you don't normally need uh any audio uh recording stuff on your remote control rightProject Manager: Yeah d d uh.User Interface: So i it's just going to add t to the cost.Project Manager: Yeah but s still we have to mm we have to {vocalsound} have an advantage over our competitors. I think this is a good advantage.User Interface: {vocalsound} It's cool. I think I like the idea, but I'm not sure about the what you,Project Manager: Yeah. We have to ask {disfmarker}User Interface: who is giving {disfmarker} who's giving who's giving our budget. Who's {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah. We have to ask the quest of that's uh design to the uh Industrial um Designer.User Interface: Yeah. Yeah.Industrial Designer: Yeah. {vocalsound} yeah {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Which is you.User Interface:'Kay. {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay so try to find that for next meeting. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Okay. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay. So next meeting is in thirty minutes or so uh. {vocalsound} Don't pani.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Don't panic. {vocalsound}Project Manager: So so I will ask the Industrial Designer to find out more about this industrial design so any working {disfmarker} any working function we have discussed.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: So then I will ask the User Interf Interface Designer to to think about the point we discussed like the number of buttons, the the fact that is lighted or not, things like that, and what would be convenient for the user.User Interface: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: And also um {vocalsound} I will ask the Market Expert to uh try to find out what are the absolute requirements, what is absolutely needed in a remote control uh for the user. So. And then uh I will uh just ask you to think about that and uh look at your mail because you will receive uh some good advice soon. {vocalsound}User Interface: Mm.Project Manager: So. Thank you I think that's all for this point.User Interface: Good.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Thank you {vocalsound}User Interface: Uh, so we come back in five minutes Half an hour.Project Manager: Anyway you will receive some messages. {vocalsound} Be careful. You eat it Does it move uh Okay, but I don't know if it uh is still correctly uh {disfmarker} We'll see.Industrial Designer: Ah. {gap} User Interface: {gap}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} How do you wear this thingProject Manager: Hmm. Mm mm mm. {vocalsound}User Interface: Not too many cables and stuff.Marketing: {gap}User Interface: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Original. {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Is recorded Okay Okay so welcome everyone. So we are here for the kickoff meeting of uh the process of designing a new remote control. So I will first start with a warm welcome opening {vocalsound} stuff,User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: then uh we will uh see what will be uh our product and what will be the different step we will have to design it. And uh then we will uh discuss if we have few ideas and we will uh end uh by uh dispatching the different task you will be {disfmarker} you will have to fulfil to complete this process. So {disfmarker}User Interface: Uh. Just one thing. Uh, you said twenty-five minutes, but I have something else to do uh, so gotta have another meeting uh soon,Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: so maybe you could hurry up a bit {disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound} sorryUser Interface: It's true. I have another meeting so if you could uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: You have another meeting soonUser Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: So you have to be quick.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah, for the lawnmower project.Project Manager: Okay.User Interface: Okay.Project Manager: So the the goal is to have a remote control so to have an advantage over our competitors we have to be original, we have to be trendy and we have to also try to be user-friendly.User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: So uh the design step will be divided in three uh main points. First it will be the functional design. Third is the conceptual design and then is the desired design. So the functional design is to {disfmarker}Project Manager: Of course your animal is recorded so it's not lost. {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Sorry too {vocalsound} uh.User Interface: Yes. I know.Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Is this uh {disfmarker}User Interface: Wha what is this strange beastMarketing: Is it beautiful {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: Is it a monsterProject Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Do you know It's a cat.User Interface: It's a catIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Isn't it {vocalsound}User Interface: I thought these things did not exist.Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Yes yesIndustrial Designer: Me {vocalsound}Marketing: is it {disfmarker} like that.User Interface: Ah yeah {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Ah yeah. Yeah.Marketing: Is it betterProject Manager: Ah okay it's pretty. {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Okay.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay it's your cat. {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} It's my cat.User Interface: Does have a nameMarketing: {vocalsound} Yeah. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: The name is Caramel.User Interface: Caramel. Ah-ha.Industrial Designer: Caramel.Marketing: Yeah. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay. Olivier, do you want to {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} And you {vocalsound} {vocalsound} I think I'm too short for the cables. {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay I go, but next time you'll do something I'm sure. {vocalsound} {vocalsound} I'm a bit short on cable.User Interface: Next time I concentrate.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay. So what could I draw {vocalsound} Maybe I can draw like a very simplified cow. {vocalsound} I don't know if it looks like a cow {vocalsound}User Interface: He looks like a bong.Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Like a what {vocalsound}User Interface: Okay. Sorry. No.Industrial Designer: Quite squarey.User Interface: ScaryProject Manager: {gap} {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: He also. {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: I dunno it it looks more like a donkey in fact {vocalsound} I would say.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} I I think we will be finished this uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Mm.Project Manager: Okay so I hope that it helps you

Summarize the discussion of group warming and the introduction to the new remote control project.

Mutual greeting heralded the beginning of the meeting and the goal of the new remote control project was introduced by Project Manager to the conferees as to win over competitive products by being original, trendy and user-friendly. Then Project Manager continued with the introduction of the design process, which was divided into three main parts--functional design, conceptual design and desired design that respectively focused on the user-related technical functions, desirable user interface and different trends involved, and specific implementation and choice-detailing process of conceptual design.

Interface: {vocalsound} That's that's quite cool, but uh of course we {disfmarker} you don't normally need uh any audio uh recording stuff on your remote control rightProject Manager: Yeah d d uh.User Interface: So i it's just going to add t to the cost.Project Manager: Yeah but s still we have to mm we have to {vocalsound} have an advantage over our competitors. I think this is a good advantage.User Interface: {vocalsound} It's cool. I think I like the idea, but I'm not sure about the what you,Project Manager: Yeah. We have to ask {disfmarker}User Interface: who is giving {disfmarker} who's giving who's giving our budget. Who's {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah. We have to ask the quest of that's uh design to the uh Industrial um Designer.User Interface: Yeah. Yeah.Industrial Designer: Yeah. {vocalsound} yeah {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Which is you.User Interface:'Kay. {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay so try to find that for next meeting. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Okay. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay. So next meeting is in thirty minutes or so uh. {vocalsound} Don't pani.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Don't panic. {vocalsound}Project Manager: So so I will ask the Industrial Designer to find out more about this industrial design so any working {disfmarker} any working function we have discussed.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: So then I will ask the User Interf Interface Designer to to think about the point we discussed like the number of buttons, the the fact that is lighted or not, things like that, and what would be convenient for the user.User Interface: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: And also um {vocalsound} I will ask the Market Expert to uh try to find out what are the absolute requirements, what is absolutely needed in a remote control uh for the user. So. And then uh I will uh just ask you to think about that and uh look at your mail because you will receive uh some good advice soon. {vocalsound}User Interface: Mm.Project Manager: So. Thank you I think that's all for this point.User Interface: Good.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Thank you {vocalsound}User Interface: Uh, so we come back in five minutes Half an hour.Project Manager: Anyway you will receive some messages. {vocalsound} Be careful. You eat it Does it move uh Okay, but I don't know if it uh is still correctly uh {disfmarker} We'll see.Industrial Designer: Ah. {gap} Designer: {vocalsound} I think we shouldn't have too many b for my part. I think {disfmarker}User Interface: No, I couldn I cannot fi think of any requirements right now. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: If we don't have so many buttons could be nice.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Few buttons. Okay.User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: And do you have it also to be {disfmarker} to be lighted in order to be used in the dark Might be a good idea.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah.Project Manager: Okay. And do you have any um any uh idea of the trend {disfmarker} the trend in domain, what it shouldn't {disfmarker} it should look like, or things like thatIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Something which is not squarey maybe uh, not a box.User Interface: Mm.Project Manager: With rou okay. Like for {disfmarker} okay.User Interface: Something like that, least fits in your hand.Project Manager: Okay.User Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah.Industrial Designer: Yeah.User Interface: The basic requirement.Project Manager: So. Fit in your hand, yeah.User Interface: {vocalsound} Only a buck.Project Manager: And also it have, i it may be {vocalsound} it may be important for the remote control to be uh {disfmarker} To, to resist to various shocks that can happen if it fall.User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.User Interface: Waterproof. {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Water-proof as well.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} And I think we should have a device {disfmarker}Project Manager: Maybe it is original because you can uh use it in your uh {disfmarker} in your bath whereas the others can't.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Maybe water-proof would be very original.Industrial Designer: Sorry. {gap}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Havin having a water-proof remote control so that the people can uh use it in their bath.User Interface: Mm.Project Manager: That could be uh {disfmarker}User Interface: B it seems uh so, but uh if you don't have an waterproof remote control it means you {disfmarker}Project Manager: Of course your animal is recorded so it's not lost. {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Sorry too {vocalsound} uh.User Interface: Yes. I know.Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Is this uh {disfmarker}User Interface: Wha what is this strange beastMarketing: Is it beautiful {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: Is it a monsterProject Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Do you know It's a cat.User Interface: It's a catIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Isn't it {vocalsound}User Interface: I thought these things did not exist.Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Yes yesIndustrial Designer: Me {vocalsound}Marketing: is it {disfmarker} like that.User Interface: Ah yeah {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Ah yeah. Yeah.Marketing: Is it betterProject Manager: Ah okay it's pretty. {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Okay.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay it's your cat. {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} It's my cat.User Interface: Does have a nameMarketing: {vocalsound} Yeah. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: The name is Caramel.User Interface: Caramel. Ah-ha.Industrial Designer: Caramel.Marketing: Yeah. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay. Olivier, do you want to {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} And you {vocalsound} {vocalsound} I think I'm too short for the cables. {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay I go, but next time you'll do something I'm sure. {vocalsound} {vocalsound} I'm a bit short on cable.User Interface: Next time I concentrate.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay. So what could I draw {vocalsound} Maybe I can draw like a very simplified cow. {vocalsound} I don't know if it looks like a cow {vocalsound}User Interface: He looks like a bong.Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Like a what {vocalsound}User Interface: Okay. Sorry. No.Industrial Designer: Quite squarey.User Interface: ScaryProject Manager: {gap} {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: He also. {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: I dunno it it looks more like a donkey in fact {vocalsound} I would say.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} I I think we will be finished this uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Mm.Project Manager: Okay so I hope that it helps you User Interface: {gap}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} How do you wear this thingProject Manager: Hmm. Mm mm mm. {vocalsound}User Interface: Not too many cables and stuff.Marketing: {gap}User Interface: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Original. {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Is recorded Okay Okay so welcome everyone. So we are here for the kickoff meeting of uh the process of designing a new remote control. So I will first start with a warm welcome opening {vocalsound} stuff,User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: then uh we will uh see what will be uh our product and what will be the different step we will have to design it. And uh then we will uh discuss if we have few ideas and we will uh end uh by uh dispatching the different task you will be {disfmarker} you will have to fulfil to complete this process. So {disfmarker}User Interface: Uh. Just one thing. Uh, you said twenty-five minutes, but I have something else to do uh, so gotta have another meeting uh soon,Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: so maybe you could hurry up a bit {disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound} sorryUser Interface: It's true. I have another meeting so if you could uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: You have another meeting soonUser Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: So you have to be quick.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah, for the lawnmower project.Project Manager: Okay.User Interface: Okay.Project Manager: So the the goal is to have a remote control so to have an advantage over our competitors we have to be original, we have to be trendy and we have to also try to be user-friendly.User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: So uh the design step will be divided in three uh main points. First it will be the functional design. Third is the conceptual design and then is the desired design. So the functional design is to uh in the process of designing a remote control.User Interface: Is it for uh for putting a {disfmarker} for logos, no.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay.User Interface: {vocalsound} That's {disfmarker}Project Manager: Let's move on. So {disfmarker} Here the uh financial objective of our project. That is to say to to have a production cost lower than twelve point five Euros and have a selling price of twice that price t in order to target a profe profit of uh fifty uh million Euros.User Interface: I is there a matter for a new remote controlProject Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah if it's trendy, original I d fulfil the user needs.User Interface: Is it uh a single device remote control or is it a multi-device remote controlProject Manager: We have to discuss that point.User Interface: AhProject Manager: On {disfmarker}User Interface: this is not defined at allProject Manager: yeah you you can suggest points like this. So what what {disfmarker}User Interface: Ah, okay.Project Manager: so we have to decide for example if it can control one device or multiple. So what's {disfmarker} what are your ideas about thatUser Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Maybe I can have the {disfmarker} your opinion from the marketing sideUser Interface: Well uh do we sell other stuff Uh if if we bundle the remote control with something uh to sell then it could be a single device, otherwise it could be programmable one otherwise who would buy a remote control from us.Project Manager: Okay, so if it selled uh by its own i it it would rather be for multiple device.User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Do you agreeIndustrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: Yeah. So maybe it should be for multiple devices. And uh do you have any ideas um of uh design ideas or any uh uh technical requirement we we should uh fulfilIndustrial

What did Project Manager recommend to do after introducing the design steps and why

Project Manager recommended a drawing activity of conferees'favourite animals with the aim of inspiring and contributing to the design process of the remote control.

Interface: {vocalsound} That's that's quite cool, but uh of course we {disfmarker} you don't normally need uh any audio uh recording stuff on your remote control rightProject Manager: Yeah d d uh.User Interface: So i it's just going to add t to the cost.Project Manager: Yeah but s still we have to mm we have to {vocalsound} have an advantage over our competitors. I think this is a good advantage.User Interface: {vocalsound} It's cool. I think I like the idea, but I'm not sure about the what you,Project Manager: Yeah. We have to ask {disfmarker}User Interface: who is giving {disfmarker} who's giving who's giving our budget. Who's {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah. We have to ask the quest of that's uh design to the uh Industrial um Designer.User Interface: Yeah. Yeah.Industrial Designer: Yeah. {vocalsound} yeah {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Which is you.User Interface:'Kay. {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay so try to find that for next meeting. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Okay. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay. So next meeting is in thirty minutes or so uh. {vocalsound} Don't pani.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Don't panic. {vocalsound}Project Manager: So so I will ask the Industrial Designer to find out more about this industrial design so any working {disfmarker} any working function we have discussed.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: So then I will ask the User Interf Interface Designer to to think about the point we discussed like the number of buttons, the the fact that is lighted or not, things like that, and what would be convenient for the user.User Interface: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: And also um {vocalsound} I will ask the Market Expert to uh try to find out what are the absolute requirements, what is absolutely needed in a remote control uh for the user. So. And then uh I will uh just ask you to think about that and uh look at your mail because you will receive uh some good advice soon. {vocalsound}User Interface: Mm.Project Manager: So. Thank you I think that's all for this point.User Interface: Good.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Thank you {vocalsound}User Interface: Uh, so we come back in five minutes Half an hour.Project Manager: Anyway you will receive some messages. {vocalsound} Be careful. You eat it Does it move uh Okay, but I don't know if it uh is still correctly uh {disfmarker} We'll see.Industrial Designer: Ah. {gap} identify the main user needs, the technical function the remote control should fulfil. And then we will move to f conceptual design where we'll specify the different component involved, what kind of user interf interface we want and what are the different uh trend in user interface and stuff like that.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: And then the desired devi design will consist in uh specifically implementing {vocalsound} and detailing the choice we've uh made in the second point. So I will now ask you which is very important for the design of a new remote control for to uh each of us to to draw uh your favourite animal on the white board.User Interface: {vocalsound} What an original idea.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Do you have any idea of which animal you want to show us {vocalsound}User Interface: Orangutan.Project Manager: Okay {vocalsound} that's good.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: No no nProject Manager: {vocalsound} n n {gap}User Interface: Can I give you theProject Manager: You should {disfmarker}User Interface: {disfmarker} no But I don't have to say anything. When I'm drawing the orangutan.Project Manager: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} If you want to react uh about this wonderful drawing uh {vocalsound} I'll let you uh comment.User Interface: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: It's an abstract drawing of an orangutan.Project Manager: Okay it's an abstract drawing.User Interface: Yes.Project Manager: I think it's nice and original. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} You should write y the name I think. {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: I don't have a red colour. Usually orangutans have red hair so this is a very important but I don't have red pen, so {disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay.User Interface: {vocalsound} Yes.Project Manager: You want to draw something Christine {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Okay uh sorry. You have to imagine a little bit {vocalsound} um.Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: This User Interface: {gap}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} How do you wear this thingProject Manager: Hmm. Mm mm mm. {vocalsound}User Interface: Not too many cables and stuff.Marketing: {gap}User Interface: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Original. {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Is recorded Okay Okay so welcome everyone. So we are here for the kickoff meeting of uh the process of designing a new remote control. So I will first start with a warm welcome opening {vocalsound} stuff,User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: then uh we will uh see what will be uh our product and what will be the different step we will have to design it. And uh then we will uh discuss if we have few ideas and we will uh end uh by uh dispatching the different task you will be {disfmarker} you will have to fulfil to complete this process. So {disfmarker}User Interface: Uh. Just one thing. Uh, you said twenty-five minutes, but I have something else to do uh, so gotta have another meeting uh soon,Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: so maybe you could hurry up a bit {disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound} sorryUser Interface: It's true. I have another meeting so if you could uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: You have another meeting soonUser Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: So you have to be quick.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah, for the lawnmower project.Project Manager: Okay.User Interface: Okay.Project Manager: So the the goal is to have a remote control so to have an advantage over our competitors we have to be original, we have to be trendy and we have to also try to be user-friendly.User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: So uh the design step will be divided in three uh main points. First it will be the functional design. Third is the conceptual design and then is the desired design. So the functional design is to {disfmarker}Project Manager: Of course your animal is recorded so it's not lost. {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Sorry too {vocalsound} uh.User Interface: Yes. I know.Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Is this uh {disfmarker}User Interface: Wha what is this strange beastMarketing: Is it beautiful {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: Is it a monsterProject Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Do you know It's a cat.User Interface: It's a catIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Isn't it {vocalsound}User Interface: I thought these things did not exist.Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Yes yesIndustrial Designer: Me {vocalsound}Marketing: is it {disfmarker} like that.User Interface: Ah yeah {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Ah yeah. Yeah.Marketing: Is it betterProject Manager: Ah okay it's pretty. {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Okay.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay it's your cat. {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} It's my cat.User Interface: Does have a nameMarketing: {vocalsound} Yeah. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: The name is Caramel.User Interface: Caramel. Ah-ha.Industrial Designer: Caramel.Marketing: Yeah. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay. Olivier, do you want to {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} And you {vocalsound} {vocalsound} I think I'm too short for the cables. {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay I go, but next time you'll do something I'm sure. {vocalsound} {vocalsound} I'm a bit short on cable.User Interface: Next time I concentrate.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay. So what could I draw {vocalsound} Maybe I can draw like a very simplified cow. {vocalsound} I don't know if it looks like a cow {vocalsound}User Interface: He looks like a bong.Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Like a what {vocalsound}User Interface: Okay. Sorry. No.Industrial Designer: Quite squarey.User Interface: ScaryProject Manager: {gap} {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: He also. {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: I dunno it it looks more like a donkey in fact {vocalsound} I would say.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} I I think we will be finished this uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Mm.Project Manager: Okay so I hope that it helps you uh in the process of designing a remote control.User Interface: Is it for uh for putting a {disfmarker} for logos, no.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay.User Interface: {vocalsound} That's {disfmarker}Project Manager: Let's move on. So {disfmarker} Here the uh financial objective of our project. That is to say to to have a production cost lower than twelve point five Euros and have a selling price of twice that price t in order to target a profe profit of uh fifty uh million Euros.User Interface: I is there a matter for a new remote controlProject Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah if it's trendy, original I d fulfil the user needs.User Interface: Is it uh a single device remote control or is it a multi-device remote controlProject Manager: We have to discuss that point.User Interface: AhProject Manager: On {disfmarker}User Interface: this is not defined at allProject Manager: yeah you you can suggest points like this. So what what {disfmarker}User Interface: Ah, okay.Project Manager: so we have to decide for example if it can control one device or multiple. So what's {disfmarker} what are your ideas about thatUser Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Maybe I can have the {disfmarker} your opinion from the marketing sideUser Interface: Well uh do we sell other stuff Uh if if we bundle the remote control with something uh to sell then it could be a single device, otherwise it could be programmable one otherwise who would buy a remote control from us.Project Manager: Okay, so if it selled uh by its own i it it would rather be for multiple device.User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Do you agreeIndustrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: Yeah. So maybe it should be for multiple devices. And uh do you have any ideas um of uh design ideas or any uh uh technical requirement we we should uh fulfilIndustrial

Summarize the discussion of specific designing requirements of the new remote control.

Given the customer demand and conferees personal experiences, several designing requirements were proposed during the discussion. The remote control was decided to be adaptable to multiple devices with few buttons, be able to be lighted in the dark and held in hand, and be both water-proof and shock-proof along with a whistle tracking system, based on which advantage over competitors might well be gained at the price of a rising production cost.

{disfmarker}Project Manager: Of course your animal is recorded so it's not lost. {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Sorry too {vocalsound} uh.User Interface: Yes. I know.Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Is this uh {disfmarker}User Interface: Wha what is this strange beastMarketing: Is it beautiful {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: Is it a monsterProject Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Do you know It's a cat.User Interface: It's a catIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Isn't it {vocalsound}User Interface: I thought these things did not exist.Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Yes yesIndustrial Designer: Me {vocalsound}Marketing: is it {disfmarker} like that.User Interface: Ah yeah {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Ah yeah. Yeah.Marketing: Is it betterProject Manager: Ah okay it's pretty. {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Okay.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay it's your cat. {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} It's my cat.User Interface: Does have a nameMarketing: {vocalsound} Yeah. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: The name is Caramel.User Interface: Caramel. Ah-ha.Industrial Designer: Caramel.Marketing: Yeah. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay. Olivier, do you want to {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} And you {vocalsound} {vocalsound} I think I'm too short for the cables. {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay I go, but next time you'll do something I'm sure. {vocalsound} {vocalsound} I'm a bit short on cable.User Interface: Next time I concentrate.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay. So what could I draw {vocalsound} Maybe I can draw like a very simplified cow. {vocalsound} I don't know if it looks like a cow {vocalsound}User Interface: He looks like a bong.Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Like a what {vocalsound}User Interface: Okay. Sorry. No.Industrial Designer: Quite squarey.User Interface: ScaryProject Manager: {gap} {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: He also. {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: I dunno it it looks more like a donkey in fact {vocalsound} I would say.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} I I think we will be finished this uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Mm.Project Manager: Okay so I hope that it helps you uh in the process of designing a remote control.User Interface: Is it for uh for putting a {disfmarker} for logos, no.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay.User Interface: {vocalsound} That's {disfmarker}Project Manager: Let's move on. So {disfmarker} Here the uh financial objective of our project. That is to say to to have a production cost lower than twelve point five Euros and have a selling price of twice that price t in order to target a profe profit of uh fifty uh million Euros.User Interface: I is there a matter for a new remote controlProject Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah if it's trendy, original I d fulfil the user needs.User Interface: Is it uh a single device remote control or is it a multi-device remote controlProject Manager: We have to discuss that point.User Interface: AhProject Manager: On {disfmarker}User Interface: this is not defined at allProject Manager: yeah you you can suggest points like this. So what what {disfmarker}User Interface: Ah, okay.Project Manager: so we have to decide for example if it can control one device or multiple. So what's {disfmarker} what are your ideas about thatUser Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Maybe I can have the {disfmarker} your opinion from the marketing sideUser Interface: Well uh do we sell other stuff Uh if if we bundle the remote control with something uh to sell then it could be a single device, otherwise it could be programmable one otherwise who would buy a remote control from us.Project Manager: Okay, so if it selled uh by its own i it it would rather be for multiple device.User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Do you agreeIndustrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: Yeah. So maybe it should be for multiple devices. And uh do you have any ideas um of uh design ideas or any uh uh technical requirement we we should uh fulfilIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} I think we shouldn't have too many b for my part. I think {disfmarker}User Interface: No, I couldn I cannot fi think of any requirements right now. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: If we don't have so many buttons could be nice.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Few buttons. Okay.User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: And do you have it also to be {disfmarker} to be lighted in order to be used in the dark Might be a good idea.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah.Project Manager: Okay. And do you have any um any uh idea of the trend {disfmarker} the trend in domain, what it shouldn't {disfmarker} it should look like, or things like thatIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Something which is not squarey maybe uh, not a box.User Interface: Mm.Project Manager: With rou okay. Like for {disfmarker} okay.User Interface: Something like that, least fits in your hand.Project Manager: Okay.User Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah.Industrial Designer: Yeah.User Interface: The basic requirement.Project Manager: So. Fit in your hand, yeah.User Interface: {vocalsound} Only a buck.Project Manager: And also it have, i it may be {vocalsound} it may be important for the remote control to be uh {disfmarker} To, to resist to various shocks that can happen if it fall.User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.User Interface: Waterproof. {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Water-proof as well.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} And I think we should have a device {disfmarker}Project Manager: Maybe it is original because you can uh use it in your uh {disfmarker} in your bath whereas the others can't.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Maybe water-proof would be very original.Industrial Designer: Sorry. {gap}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Havin having a water-proof remote control so that the people can uh use it in their bath.User Interface: Mm.Project Manager: That could be uh {disfmarker}User Interface: B it seems uh so, but uh if you don't have an waterproof remote control it means you User Interface: {gap}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} How do you wear this thingProject Manager: Hmm. Mm mm mm. {vocalsound}User Interface: Not too many cables and stuff.Marketing: {gap}User Interface: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Original. {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Is recorded Okay Okay so welcome everyone. So we are here for the kickoff meeting of uh the process of designing a new remote control. So I will first start with a warm welcome opening {vocalsound} stuff,User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: then uh we will uh see what will be uh our product and what will be the different step we will have to design it. And uh then we will uh discuss if we have few ideas and we will uh end uh by uh dispatching the different task you will be {disfmarker} you will have to fulfil to complete this process. So {disfmarker}User Interface: Uh. Just one thing. Uh, you said twenty-five minutes, but I have something else to do uh, so gotta have another meeting uh soon,Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: so maybe you could hurry up a bit {disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound} sorryUser Interface: It's true. I have another meeting so if you could uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: You have another meeting soonUser Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: So you have to be quick.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah, for the lawnmower project.Project Manager: Okay.User Interface: Okay.Project Manager: So the the goal is to have a remote control so to have an advantage over our competitors we have to be original, we have to be trendy and we have to also try to be user-friendly.User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: So uh the design step will be divided in three uh main points. First it will be the functional design. Third is the conceptual design and then is the desired design. So the functional design is to Interface: {vocalsound} That's that's quite cool, but uh of course we {disfmarker} you don't normally need uh any audio uh recording stuff on your remote control rightProject Manager: Yeah d d uh.User Interface: So i it's just going to add t to the cost.Project Manager: Yeah but s still we have to mm we have to {vocalsound} have an advantage over our competitors. I think this is a good advantage.User Interface: {vocalsound} It's cool. I think I like the idea, but I'm not sure about the what you,Project Manager: Yeah. We have to ask {disfmarker}User Interface: who is giving {disfmarker} who's giving who's giving our budget. Who's {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah. We have to ask the quest of that's uh design to the uh Industrial um Designer.User Interface: Yeah. Yeah.Industrial Designer: Yeah. {vocalsound} yeah {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Which is you.User Interface:'Kay. {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay so try to find that for next meeting. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Okay. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay. So next meeting is in thirty minutes or so uh. {vocalsound} Don't pani.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Don't panic. {vocalsound}Project Manager: So so I will ask the Industrial Designer to find out more about this industrial design so any working {disfmarker} any working function we have discussed.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: So then I will ask the User Interf Interface Designer to to think about the point we discussed like the number of buttons, the the fact that is lighted or not, things like that, and what would be convenient for the user.User Interface: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: And also um {vocalsound} I will ask the Market Expert to uh try to find out what are the absolute requirements, what is absolutely needed in a remote control uh for the user. So. And then uh I will uh just ask you to think about that and uh look at your mail because you will receive uh some good advice soon. {vocalsound}User Interface: Mm.Project Manager: So. Thank you I think that's all for this point.User Interface: Good.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Thank you {vocalsound}User Interface: Uh, so we come back in five minutes Half an hour.Project Manager: Anyway you will receive some messages. {vocalsound} Be careful. You eat it Does it move uh Okay, but I don't know if it uh is still correctly uh {disfmarker} We'll see.Industrial Designer: Ah. {gap}

What did Project Manager's think of the water-proof design when discussing the designing requirements of the new remote control

Considering the product originality, Project Manager believed that a water-proof remote control could be used in the bath conveniently while saving the customer's need to purchase an extra plastic cover. Therefore, originality and competitiveness might be gained over competitive products.

{disfmarker}Project Manager: Of course your animal is recorded so it's not lost. {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Sorry too {vocalsound} uh.User Interface: Yes. I know.Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Is this uh {disfmarker}User Interface: Wha what is this strange beastMarketing: Is it beautiful {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: Is it a monsterProject Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Do you know It's a cat.User Interface: It's a catIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Isn't it {vocalsound}User Interface: I thought these things did not exist.Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Yes yesIndustrial Designer: Me {vocalsound}Marketing: is it {disfmarker} like that.User Interface: Ah yeah {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Ah yeah. Yeah.Marketing: Is it betterProject Manager: Ah okay it's pretty. {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Okay.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay it's your cat. {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} It's my cat.User Interface: Does have a nameMarketing: {vocalsound} Yeah. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: The name is Caramel.User Interface: Caramel. Ah-ha.Industrial Designer: Caramel.Marketing: Yeah. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay. Olivier, do you want to {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} And you {vocalsound} {vocalsound} I think I'm too short for the cables. {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay I go, but next time you'll do something I'm sure. {vocalsound} {vocalsound} I'm a bit short on cable.User Interface: Next time I concentrate.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay. So what could I draw {vocalsound} Maybe I can draw like a very simplified cow. {vocalsound} I don't know if it looks like a cow {vocalsound}User Interface: He looks like a bong.Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Like a what {vocalsound}User Interface: Okay. Sorry. No.Industrial Designer: Quite squarey.User Interface: ScaryProject Manager: {gap} {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: He also. {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: I dunno it it looks more like a donkey in fact {vocalsound} I would say.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} I I think we will be finished this uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Mm.Project Manager: Okay so I hope that it helps you Designer: {vocalsound} I think we shouldn't have too many b for my part. I think {disfmarker}User Interface: No, I couldn I cannot fi think of any requirements right now. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: If we don't have so many buttons could be nice.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Few buttons. Okay.User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: And do you have it also to be {disfmarker} to be lighted in order to be used in the dark Might be a good idea.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah.Project Manager: Okay. And do you have any um any uh idea of the trend {disfmarker} the trend in domain, what it shouldn't {disfmarker} it should look like, or things like thatIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Something which is not squarey maybe uh, not a box.User Interface: Mm.Project Manager: With rou okay. Like for {disfmarker} okay.User Interface: Something like that, least fits in your hand.Project Manager: Okay.User Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah.Industrial Designer: Yeah.User Interface: The basic requirement.Project Manager: So. Fit in your hand, yeah.User Interface: {vocalsound} Only a buck.Project Manager: And also it have, i it may be {vocalsound} it may be important for the remote control to be uh {disfmarker} To, to resist to various shocks that can happen if it fall.User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.User Interface: Waterproof. {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Water-proof as well.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} And I think we should have a device {disfmarker}Project Manager: Maybe it is original because you can uh use it in your uh {disfmarker} in your bath whereas the others can't.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Maybe water-proof would be very original.Industrial Designer: Sorry. {gap}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Havin having a water-proof remote control so that the people can uh use it in their bath.User Interface: Mm.Project Manager: That could be uh {disfmarker}User Interface: B it seems uh so, but uh if you don't have an waterproof remote control it means you User Interface: {gap}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} How do you wear this thingProject Manager: Hmm. Mm mm mm. {vocalsound}User Interface: Not too many cables and stuff.Marketing: {gap}User Interface: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Original. {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Is recorded Okay Okay so welcome everyone. So we are here for the kickoff meeting of uh the process of designing a new remote control. So I will first start with a warm welcome opening {vocalsound} stuff,User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: then uh we will uh see what will be uh our product and what will be the different step we will have to design it. And uh then we will uh discuss if we have few ideas and we will uh end uh by uh dispatching the different task you will be {disfmarker} you will have to fulfil to complete this process. So {disfmarker}User Interface: Uh. Just one thing. Uh, you said twenty-five minutes, but I have something else to do uh, so gotta have another meeting uh soon,Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: so maybe you could hurry up a bit {disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound} sorryUser Interface: It's true. I have another meeting so if you could uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: You have another meeting soonUser Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: So you have to be quick.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah, for the lawnmower project.Project Manager: Okay.User Interface: Okay.Project Manager: So the the goal is to have a remote control so to have an advantage over our competitors we have to be original, we have to be trendy and we have to also try to be user-friendly.User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: So uh the design step will be divided in three uh main points. First it will be the functional design. Third is the conceptual design and then is the desired design. So the functional design is to Interface: {vocalsound} That's that's quite cool, but uh of course we {disfmarker} you don't normally need uh any audio uh recording stuff on your remote control rightProject Manager: Yeah d d uh.User Interface: So i it's just going to add t to the cost.Project Manager: Yeah but s still we have to mm we have to {vocalsound} have an advantage over our competitors. I think this is a good advantage.User Interface: {vocalsound} It's cool. I think I like the idea, but I'm not sure about the what you,Project Manager: Yeah. We have to ask {disfmarker}User Interface: who is giving {disfmarker} who's giving who's giving our budget. Who's {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah. We have to ask the quest of that's uh design to the uh Industrial um Designer.User Interface: Yeah. Yeah.Industrial Designer: Yeah. {vocalsound} yeah {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Which is you.User Interface:'Kay. {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay so try to find that for next meeting. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Okay. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay. So next meeting is in thirty minutes or so uh. {vocalsound} Don't pani.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Don't panic. {vocalsound}Project Manager: So so I will ask the Industrial Designer to find out more about this industrial design so any working {disfmarker} any working function we have discussed.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: So then I will ask the User Interf Interface Designer to to think about the point we discussed like the number of buttons, the the fact that is lighted or not, things like that, and what would be convenient for the user.User Interface: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: And also um {vocalsound} I will ask the Market Expert to uh try to find out what are the absolute requirements, what is absolutely needed in a remote control uh for the user. So. And then uh I will uh just ask you to think about that and uh look at your mail because you will receive uh some good advice soon. {vocalsound}User Interface: Mm.Project Manager: So. Thank you I think that's all for this point.User Interface: Good.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Thank you {vocalsound}User Interface: Uh, so we come back in five minutes Half an hour.Project Manager: Anyway you will receive some messages. {vocalsound} Be careful. You eat it Does it move uh Okay, but I don't know if it uh is still correctly uh {disfmarker} We'll see.Industrial Designer: Ah. {gap} uh in the process of designing a remote control.User Interface: Is it for uh for putting a {disfmarker} for logos, no.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay.User Interface: {vocalsound} That's {disfmarker}Project Manager: Let's move on. So {disfmarker} Here the uh financial objective of our project. That is to say to to have a production cost lower than twelve point five Euros and have a selling price of twice that price t in order to target a profe profit of uh fifty uh million Euros.User Interface: I is there a matter for a new remote controlProject Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah if it's trendy, original I d fulfil the user needs.User Interface: Is it uh a single device remote control or is it a multi-device remote controlProject Manager: We have to discuss that point.User Interface: AhProject Manager: On {disfmarker}User Interface: this is not defined at allProject Manager: yeah you you can suggest points like this. So what what {disfmarker}User Interface: Ah, okay.Project Manager: so we have to decide for example if it can control one device or multiple. So what's {disfmarker} what are your ideas about thatUser Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Maybe I can have the {disfmarker} your opinion from the marketing sideUser Interface: Well uh do we sell other stuff Uh if if we bundle the remote control with something uh to sell then it could be a single device, otherwise it could be programmable one otherwise who would buy a remote control from us.Project Manager: Okay, so if it selled uh by its own i it it would rather be for multiple device.User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Do you agreeIndustrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: Yeah. So maybe it should be for multiple devices. And uh do you have any ideas um of uh design ideas or any uh uh technical requirement we we should uh fulfilIndustrial

What did the conferees think of the solution to water-proof and shock-proof technical demands when discussing the designing requirements of the new remote control

Conferees agreed that the remote control could be sold with optional plastic protection and water-proof box for customers to choose.

{disfmarker}Project Manager: Of course your animal is recorded so it's not lost. {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Sorry too {vocalsound} uh.User Interface: Yes. I know.Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Is this uh {disfmarker}User Interface: Wha what is this strange beastMarketing: Is it beautiful {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: Is it a monsterProject Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Do you know It's a cat.User Interface: It's a catIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Isn't it {vocalsound}User Interface: I thought these things did not exist.Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Yes yesIndustrial Designer: Me {vocalsound}Marketing: is it {disfmarker} like that.User Interface: Ah yeah {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Ah yeah. Yeah.Marketing: Is it betterProject Manager: Ah okay it's pretty. {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Okay.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay it's your cat. {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} It's my cat.User Interface: Does have a nameMarketing: {vocalsound} Yeah. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: The name is Caramel.User Interface: Caramel. Ah-ha.Industrial Designer: Caramel.Marketing: Yeah. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay. Olivier, do you want to {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} And you {vocalsound} {vocalsound} I think I'm too short for the cables. {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay I go, but next time you'll do something I'm sure. {vocalsound} {vocalsound} I'm a bit short on cable.User Interface: Next time I concentrate.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay. So what could I draw {vocalsound} Maybe I can draw like a very simplified cow. {vocalsound} I don't know if it looks like a cow {vocalsound}User Interface: He looks like a bong.Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Like a what {vocalsound}User Interface: Okay. Sorry. No.Industrial Designer: Quite squarey.User Interface: ScaryProject Manager: {gap} {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: He also. {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: I dunno it it looks more like a donkey in fact {vocalsound} I would say.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} I I think we will be finished this uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Mm.Project Manager: Okay so I hope that it helps you Designer: {vocalsound} I think we shouldn't have too many b for my part. I think {disfmarker}User Interface: No, I couldn I cannot fi think of any requirements right now. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: If we don't have so many buttons could be nice.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Few buttons. Okay.User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: And do you have it also to be {disfmarker} to be lighted in order to be used in the dark Might be a good idea.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah.Project Manager: Okay. And do you have any um any uh idea of the trend {disfmarker} the trend in domain, what it shouldn't {disfmarker} it should look like, or things like thatIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Something which is not squarey maybe uh, not a box.User Interface: Mm.Project Manager: With rou okay. Like for {disfmarker} okay.User Interface: Something like that, least fits in your hand.Project Manager: Okay.User Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah.Industrial Designer: Yeah.User Interface: The basic requirement.Project Manager: So. Fit in your hand, yeah.User Interface: {vocalsound} Only a buck.Project Manager: And also it have, i it may be {vocalsound} it may be important for the remote control to be uh {disfmarker} To, to resist to various shocks that can happen if it fall.User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.User Interface: Waterproof. {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Water-proof as well.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} And I think we should have a device {disfmarker}Project Manager: Maybe it is original because you can uh use it in your uh {disfmarker} in your bath whereas the others can't.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Maybe water-proof would be very original.Industrial Designer: Sorry. {gap}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Havin having a water-proof remote control so that the people can uh use it in their bath.User Interface: Mm.Project Manager: That could be uh {disfmarker}User Interface: B it seems uh so, but uh if you don't have an waterproof remote control it means you uh in the process of designing a remote control.User Interface: Is it for uh for putting a {disfmarker} for logos, no.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay.User Interface: {vocalsound} That's {disfmarker}Project Manager: Let's move on. So {disfmarker} Here the uh financial objective of our project. That is to say to to have a production cost lower than twelve point five Euros and have a selling price of twice that price t in order to target a profe profit of uh fifty uh million Euros.User Interface: I is there a matter for a new remote controlProject Manager: {vocalsound} Yeah if it's trendy, original I d fulfil the user needs.User Interface: Is it uh a single device remote control or is it a multi-device remote controlProject Manager: We have to discuss that point.User Interface: AhProject Manager: On {disfmarker}User Interface: this is not defined at allProject Manager: yeah you you can suggest points like this. So what what {disfmarker}User Interface: Ah, okay.Project Manager: so we have to decide for example if it can control one device or multiple. So what's {disfmarker} what are your ideas about thatUser Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Maybe I can have the {disfmarker} your opinion from the marketing sideUser Interface: Well uh do we sell other stuff Uh if if we bundle the remote control with something uh to sell then it could be a single device, otherwise it could be programmable one otherwise who would buy a remote control from us.Project Manager: Okay, so if it selled uh by its own i it it would rather be for multiple device.User Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Do you agreeIndustrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: Yeah. So maybe it should be for multiple devices. And uh do you have any ideas um of uh design ideas or any uh uh technical requirement we we should uh fulfilIndustrial User Interface: {gap}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} How do you wear this thingProject Manager: Hmm. Mm mm mm. {vocalsound}User Interface: Not too many cables and stuff.Marketing: {gap}User Interface: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Original. {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Is recorded Okay Okay so welcome everyone. So we are here for the kickoff meeting of uh the process of designing a new remote control. So I will first start with a warm welcome opening {vocalsound} stuff,User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: then uh we will uh see what will be uh our product and what will be the different step we will have to design it. And uh then we will uh discuss if we have few ideas and we will uh end uh by uh dispatching the different task you will be {disfmarker} you will have to fulfil to complete this process. So {disfmarker}User Interface: Uh. Just one thing. Uh, you said twenty-five minutes, but I have something else to do uh, so gotta have another meeting uh soon,Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: so maybe you could hurry up a bit {disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound} sorryUser Interface: It's true. I have another meeting so if you could uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: You have another meeting soonUser Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: So you have to be quick.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah, for the lawnmower project.Project Manager: Okay.User Interface: Okay.Project Manager: So the the goal is to have a remote control so to have an advantage over our competitors we have to be original, we have to be trendy and we have to also try to be user-friendly.User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: So uh the design step will be divided in three uh main points. First it will be the functional design. Third is the conceptual design and then is the desired design. So the functional design is to Interface: {vocalsound} That's that's quite cool, but uh of course we {disfmarker} you don't normally need uh any audio uh recording stuff on your remote control rightProject Manager: Yeah d d uh.User Interface: So i it's just going to add t to the cost.Project Manager: Yeah but s still we have to mm we have to {vocalsound} have an advantage over our competitors. I think this is a good advantage.User Interface: {vocalsound} It's cool. I think I like the idea, but I'm not sure about the what you,Project Manager: Yeah. We have to ask {disfmarker}User Interface: who is giving {disfmarker} who's giving who's giving our budget. Who's {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah. We have to ask the quest of that's uh design to the uh Industrial um Designer.User Interface: Yeah. Yeah.Industrial Designer: Yeah. {vocalsound} yeah {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Which is you.User Interface:'Kay. {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay so try to find that for next meeting. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Okay. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay. So next meeting is in thirty minutes or so uh. {vocalsound} Don't pani.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Don't panic. {vocalsound}Project Manager: So so I will ask the Industrial Designer to find out more about this industrial design so any working {disfmarker} any working function we have discussed.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: So then I will ask the User Interf Interface Designer to to think about the point we discussed like the number of buttons, the the fact that is lighted or not, things like that, and what would be convenient for the user.User Interface: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: And also um {vocalsound} I will ask the Market Expert to uh try to find out what are the absolute requirements, what is absolutely needed in a remote control uh for the user. So. And then uh I will uh just ask you to think about that and uh look at your mail because you will receive uh some good advice soon. {vocalsound}User Interface: Mm.Project Manager: So. Thank you I think that's all for this point.User Interface: Good.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Thank you {vocalsound}User Interface: Uh, so we come back in five minutes Half an hour.Project Manager: Anyway you will receive some messages. {vocalsound} Be careful. You eat it Does it move uh Okay, but I don't know if it uh is still correctly uh {disfmarker} We'll see.Industrial Designer: Ah. {gap}

What did Industrial Designer and Project Manager think of the remote tracking method when discussing the designing requirements of the new remote control

Industrial Designer first recommended adding a special beeping button on the TV set to remind users of where the remote controls were, but the plan was deemed impractical concerning TV sets that were not designed by them. Then Project Manager suggested whistle tracking and was approved by all the conferees as an original improvement.

User Interface: {gap}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} How do you wear this thingProject Manager: Hmm. Mm mm mm. {vocalsound}User Interface: Not too many cables and stuff.Marketing: {gap}User Interface: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} Original. {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Is recorded Okay Okay so welcome everyone. So we are here for the kickoff meeting of uh the process of designing a new remote control. So I will first start with a warm welcome opening {vocalsound} stuff,User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: then uh we will uh see what will be uh our product and what will be the different step we will have to design it. And uh then we will uh discuss if we have few ideas and we will uh end uh by uh dispatching the different task you will be {disfmarker} you will have to fulfil to complete this process. So {disfmarker}User Interface: Uh. Just one thing. Uh, you said twenty-five minutes, but I have something else to do uh, so gotta have another meeting uh soon,Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: so maybe you could hurry up a bit {disfmarker}Project Manager: {vocalsound} sorryUser Interface: It's true. I have another meeting so if you could uh {disfmarker}Project Manager: You have another meeting soonUser Interface: Yeah.Project Manager: So you have to be quick.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: Yeah, for the lawnmower project.Project Manager: Okay.User Interface: Okay.Project Manager: So the the goal is to have a remote control so to have an advantage over our competitors we have to be original, we have to be trendy and we have to also try to be user-friendly.User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: So uh the design step will be divided in three uh main points. First it will be the functional design. Third is the conceptual design and then is the desired design. So the functional design is to Interface: {vocalsound} That's that's quite cool, but uh of course we {disfmarker} you don't normally need uh any audio uh recording stuff on your remote control rightProject Manager: Yeah d d uh.User Interface: So i it's just going to add t to the cost.Project Manager: Yeah but s still we have to mm we have to {vocalsound} have an advantage over our competitors. I think this is a good advantage.User Interface: {vocalsound} It's cool. I think I like the idea, but I'm not sure about the what you,Project Manager: Yeah. We have to ask {disfmarker}User Interface: who is giving {disfmarker} who's giving who's giving our budget. Who's {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah. We have to ask the quest of that's uh design to the uh Industrial um Designer.User Interface: Yeah. Yeah.Industrial Designer: Yeah. {vocalsound} yeah {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Which is you.User Interface:'Kay. {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay so try to find that for next meeting. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Okay. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay. So next meeting is in thirty minutes or so uh. {vocalsound} Don't pani.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Don't panic. {vocalsound}Project Manager: So so I will ask the Industrial Designer to find out more about this industrial design so any working {disfmarker} any working function we have discussed.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: So then I will ask the User Interf Interface Designer to to think about the point we discussed like the number of buttons, the the fact that is lighted or not, things like that, and what would be convenient for the user.User Interface: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: And also um {vocalsound} I will ask the Market Expert to uh try to find out what are the absolute requirements, what is absolutely needed in a remote control uh for the user. So. And then uh I will uh just ask you to think about that and uh look at your mail because you will receive uh some good advice soon. {vocalsound}User Interface: Mm.Project Manager: So. Thank you I think that's all for this point.User Interface: Good.Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Thank you {vocalsound}User Interface: Uh, so we come back in five minutes Half an hour.Project Manager: Anyway you will receive some messages. {vocalsound} Be careful. You eat it Does it move uh Okay, but I don't know if it uh is still correctly uh {disfmarker} We'll see.Industrial Designer: Ah. {gap} identify the main user needs, the technical function the remote control should fulfil. And then we will move to f conceptual design where we'll specify the different component involved, what kind of user interf interface we want and what are the different uh trend in user interface and stuff like that.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: And then the desired devi design will consist in uh specifically implementing {vocalsound} and detailing the choice we've uh made in the second point. So I will now ask you which is very important for the design of a new remote control for to uh each of us to to draw uh your favourite animal on the white board.User Interface: {vocalsound} What an original idea.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Do you have any idea of which animal you want to show us {vocalsound}User Interface: Orangutan.Project Manager: Okay {vocalsound} that's good.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: No no nProject Manager: {vocalsound} n n {gap}User Interface: Can I give you theProject Manager: You should {disfmarker}User Interface: {disfmarker} no But I don't have to say anything. When I'm drawing the orangutan.Project Manager: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} If you want to react uh about this wonderful drawing uh {vocalsound} I'll let you uh comment.User Interface: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: It's an abstract drawing of an orangutan.Project Manager: Okay it's an abstract drawing.User Interface: Yes.Project Manager: I think it's nice and original. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} You should write y the name I think. {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: I don't have a red colour. Usually orangutans have red hair so this is a very important but I don't have red pen, so {disfmarker}Project Manager: Okay.User Interface: {vocalsound} Yes.Project Manager: You want to draw something Christine {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: Okay uh sorry. You have to imagine a little bit {vocalsound} um.Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: This Designer: {vocalsound} I think we shouldn't have too many b for my part. I think {disfmarker}User Interface: No, I couldn I cannot fi think of any requirements right now. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: If we don't have so many buttons could be nice.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Few buttons. Okay.User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: And do you have it also to be {disfmarker} to be lighted in order to be used in the dark Might be a good idea.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah.Project Manager: Okay. And do you have any um any uh idea of the trend {disfmarker} the trend in domain, what it shouldn't {disfmarker} it should look like, or things like thatIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} Something which is not squarey maybe uh, not a box.User Interface: Mm.Project Manager: With rou okay. Like for {disfmarker} okay.User Interface: Something like that, least fits in your hand.Project Manager: Okay.User Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah.Industrial Designer: Yeah.User Interface: The basic requirement.Project Manager: So. Fit in your hand, yeah.User Interface: {vocalsound} Only a buck.Project Manager: And also it have, i it may be {vocalsound} it may be important for the remote control to be uh {disfmarker} To, to resist to various shocks that can happen if it fall.User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.User Interface: Waterproof. {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Water-proof as well.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} And I think we should have a device {disfmarker}Project Manager: Maybe it is original because you can uh use it in your uh {disfmarker} in your bath whereas the others can't.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Maybe water-proof would be very original.Industrial Designer: Sorry. {gap}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Havin having a water-proof remote control so that the people can uh use it in their bath.User Interface: Mm.Project Manager: That could be uh {disfmarker}User Interface: B it seems uh so, but uh if you don't have an waterproof remote control it means you {disfmarker}Project Manager: Of course your animal is recorded so it's not lost. {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Sorry too {vocalsound} uh.User Interface: Yes. I know.Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Is this uh {disfmarker}User Interface: Wha what is this strange beastMarketing: Is it beautiful {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: Is it a monsterProject Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Do you know It's a cat.User Interface: It's a catIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Isn't it {vocalsound}User Interface: I thought these things did not exist.Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Yes yesIndustrial Designer: Me {vocalsound}Marketing: is it {disfmarker} like that.User Interface: Ah yeah {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Ah yeah. Yeah.Marketing: Is it betterProject Manager: Ah okay it's pretty. {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} Okay.Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay it's your cat. {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound} It's my cat.User Interface: Does have a nameMarketing: {vocalsound} Yeah. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: The name is Caramel.User Interface: Caramel. Ah-ha.Industrial Designer: Caramel.Marketing: Yeah. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay. Olivier, do you want to {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} And you {vocalsound} {vocalsound} I think I'm too short for the cables. {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: {vocalsound} Okay I go, but next time you'll do something I'm sure. {vocalsound} {vocalsound} I'm a bit short on cable.User Interface: Next time I concentrate.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Okay. So what could I draw {vocalsound} Maybe I can draw like a very simplified cow. {vocalsound} I don't know if it looks like a cow {vocalsound}User Interface: He looks like a bong.Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Project Manager: Like a what {vocalsound}User Interface: Okay. Sorry. No.Industrial Designer: Quite squarey.User Interface: ScaryProject Manager: {gap} {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: He also. {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}Project Manager: I dunno it it looks more like a donkey in fact {vocalsound} I would say.User Interface: {vocalsound}Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} I I think we will be finished this uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: Mm.Project Manager: Okay so I hope that it helps you

Summarize the whole meeting.

This meeting was primarily concerned with the design process and specific designing requirements of the remote control. Project Manager first introduced the goal of the new remote control project as to be original, trendy and user-friendly so as to bear an advantage over competitive products. Then three steps of the design process were respectively introduced and explained by Project Manager, and drawings of favourite animals then followed as an imagination-inspiring activity. According to Project Manager, the fifty-million-Euro financial objective of the project would be achieved at a production cost lower than 12. 5 Euros and a twofold selling price. Competitiveness-endowing requirements for remote control design were then proposed and carefully discussed.

offer are also available in Welsh and bilingually. Recruitment and retention within the childcare and play sector is quite challenging in any case. Recruiting and retaining staff with really good Welsh language skills adds an extra dimension to it, and that it's a point that Mudiad Meithrin makes to us quite regularly, that they do struggle to find staff with the right skills. So, upskilling the existing workforce is a key part of it, but also doing more to attract people in with Welsh language skills in the first place in terms of the training courses that we're taking forward, and thinking about that in the context of the targets within Cymraeg 2050 and the aim to get to one million Welsh speakers. So, as the Deputy Minister said, we've got quite a number of children accessing the offer in Welsh-medium or bilingual settings at the moment. We're going to be doing some baselining work against that in terms of local authorities'Welsh in education strategic plans and education places, and what we can then do to increase the number of childcare places in parallel with that so that you can make sure that you start that pathway through learning Welsh, interacting with education and childcare through Welsh at a much earlier stage.Lynne Neagle AM: Suzy, you've got a supplementary.Suzy Davies AM: Just on this early point, anybody who's been through the Welsh education system, which is 20 years now, will have some Welsh language skills, obviously to differing degrees. For the entrants that are coming into childcare training now, there are going to be very few of them, realistically, with no Welsh at all, so what's actually being incorporated into the early years care training to make sure, at that stage, that the Welsh language skills are being developed, as that's how we collect it. We do go down to individual child level, although it's anonymised, data collection on a termly basis. So I'll have a look and see if we can send you through the last term.Lynne Neagle AM: Maybe if the committee could have a note, that would be really useful.Nicola Edwards: Yes, that's fine.Lynne Neagle AM: We've got some questions now on childcare from Dawn Bowden.Dawn Bowden AM: Thank you, Chair. Deputy Minister, the evaluation of the childcare offer, when it was published last year, said that there was very little evidence currently available to determine what its impact was. You're going to be producing a second evaluation in November this year; do you expect to see some indications now of the impactJulie Morgan AM: Well, the evaluation of the first year of the childcare offer was very limited, because the childcare offer wasn't available throughout the whole of Wales. And it was a very early implementation phase. So, obviously it takes time to grow. And the evaluation for year 2, I think, will also show a limited impact for the same reasons. The offer became available across the whole of Wales only last April. So we've only got since last April that it's actually been fully available. And the parental survey was released to parents in June 2019, therefore any impact on parents in the authorities coming on board in the second year will also be negligible. So, it's from the next one, however, we hope that we will get more information.Dawn Bowden AM: So you think, by the time we get to November 2020, you might have a better picture.Julie Morgan AM: The evaluation will be more meaningful, we think, then, yes.Dawn Bowden AM: Okay. I take that point. What the first year's evaluation did opposed to an add-on later onNicola Edwards: You're quite right. Most people coming through the education system will have some awareness of Welsh although I think it's probably important to remember we do also employ people from outside of wales.Suzy Davies AM: Yes, but the majority, being realistic.Nicola Edwards: But they don't necessarily have Welsh that is appropriate. They've got Welsh that they've developed in school. It's not necessarily appropriate for then teaching that language to children, who may be coming from families who don't use Welsh at home. So, that might be the first interaction that child has with the language. So, there's a lot of that in terms of child development and how you develop children bilingually, particularly if they're coming from English-medium homes, and reinforcing the language in language choices. There will also be some people who are, perhaps--we see this quite a lot in the office--quite confident in terms of speaking Welsh but less so in terms of some of the paperwork, the reporting, the writing and the interacting with parents more officially, which we need to think about as well. But it is mainly about getting people to a point where they can transmit that language onwards in a confident and meaningful way.Suzy Davies AM: Okay. And it's ingrained in the early years training.Nicola Edwards: Yes.Suzy Davies AM: Okay. That's fine. Thank you for that. Thank you, Chair.Lynne Neagle AM: Just before we move on, you said that 29 per cent of the take-up of the childcare offer is either through Welsh or is bilingual. Have you got any figures about how many children are accessing it in Welsh onlyNicola Edwards: We will have. It becomes--. With the way we do it, it's because of the way that the setting defines their language category, and PS50 million to PS55 million in this financial year. Our published plans already include the provision of PS40 million, and we're absolutely committed to making available the total funding that is needed to deliver on the offer. It is fantastic to see the offer being so well received on Ynys Mon, recognising, as Janet said earlier, it is demand led. We are managing it within the normal budgetary process. Local authorities will get the full funding that is needed. It's this year now that the big increase has happened; the previous two years--Sian Gwenllian AM: So, local authorities won't have to find the extra money out of their own pots.Julie Morgan AM: No, absolutely not. This is funded by the Welsh Government.Sian Gwenllian AM: Yes. You can assure them.Lynne Neagle AM: Dawn.Dawn Bowden AM: Thank you, Chair. You've already alluded to this in answer to Janet earlier on, about extending the childcare offer to those in training and education. You also talk about'on the cusp'of returning to work. So, I'm not quite sure what'on the cusp'of returning to work is, but from the committee's point of view, we're very pleased that you've reached that conclusion, because it was one of the recommendations that we had following the scrutiny of the Bill. So, can you say a little more about that, bearing in mind that I'm also conscious that you've told Hefin you're going to be making an announcement shortly So you may not be able to say too much. But a little bit more about the inclusion of parents in training and education, what'on the cusp of returning to work'is--what that means from your perspective--and how you've arrived at that decision now, six months into the programme. What is it that's made you move towards that conclusionJulie Morgan AM: Well, realise that. Yes, I got all that.Jo-Anne Daniels: So, part of the reason for using 10 is to try to ensure that we build economies of scale and that we have a more efficient operation. Those authorities that undertake that function are given a specific grant in order to do that. That grant is ring-fenced to that purpose.Suzy Davies AM: Could you give us an idea of the price tagJo-Anne Daniels: At the moment, it's about PS2. 5 million.Suzy Davies AM: Okay, just as a round figure--that's fine.Nicola Edwards: Just for the administration. They get separate funding for the childcare, obviously.Suzy Davies AM: Okay, thank you.Jo-Anne Daniels: So that, as I said, is a ring-fenced sum that they use to administer the offer. We are now starting the detailed work to define the new system requirements so that we will have a single application process across Wales, moving forward. As part of that work, we'll need to consider the detailed costings, but our initial estimate suggests that it would be less than the cost proposed by HMRC.Suzy Davies AM: Okay, when those costings are worked up, perhaps we could have a note comparing the two figures.Jo-Anne Daniels: Yes, we would be very happy to share more detail on that.Suzy Davies AM: Thank you.Lynne Neagle AM: Sian.Sian Gwenllian AM: If it became a universal offer, would those costs reduce Would there be so much bureaucracy involved in checking eligibility and stuff if every child was open to the offerJo-Anne Daniels: So, clearly, if every child is eligible, then a large part of the process falls away in terms of the need to verify income and so on. That doesn't mean that there's no administration. For example, with the foundation phase, which is universally available, there is an application process and there

What did the group discuss about differences of care provision in different parts of Wales

Julie Morgan insisted that they were aware that different local authorities actually had adopted different patterns of providing early education. And with the Flying Start programme being geographically targeted, with the education being determined by the local authorities, they knew that there was a variance throughout Wales. Then they would like to see facilities developed in each local authority throughout Wales that would answer the needs of the families and the children in those areas. And It was demand-led and universally available to all parents who meet the eligibility criteria of working, so they believed the programme should be available to everybody.

offer are also available in Welsh and bilingually. Recruitment and retention within the childcare and play sector is quite challenging in any case. Recruiting and retaining staff with really good Welsh language skills adds an extra dimension to it, and that it's a point that Mudiad Meithrin makes to us quite regularly, that they do struggle to find staff with the right skills. So, upskilling the existing workforce is a key part of it, but also doing more to attract people in with Welsh language skills in the first place in terms of the training courses that we're taking forward, and thinking about that in the context of the targets within Cymraeg 2050 and the aim to get to one million Welsh speakers. So, as the Deputy Minister said, we've got quite a number of children accessing the offer in Welsh-medium or bilingual settings at the moment. We're going to be doing some baselining work against that in terms of local authorities'Welsh in education strategic plans and education places, and what we can then do to increase the number of childcare places in parallel with that so that you can make sure that you start that pathway through learning Welsh, interacting with education and childcare through Welsh at a much earlier stage.Lynne Neagle AM: Suzy, you've got a supplementary.Suzy Davies AM: Just on this early point, anybody who's been through the Welsh education system, which is 20 years now, will have some Welsh language skills, obviously to differing degrees. For the entrants that are coming into childcare training now, there are going to be very few of them, realistically, with no Welsh at all, so what's actually being incorporated into the early years care training to make sure, at that stage, that the Welsh language skills are being developed, as that's how we collect it. We do go down to individual child level, although it's anonymised, data collection on a termly basis. So I'll have a look and see if we can send you through the last term.Lynne Neagle AM: Maybe if the committee could have a note, that would be really useful.Nicola Edwards: Yes, that's fine.Lynne Neagle AM: We've got some questions now on childcare from Dawn Bowden.Dawn Bowden AM: Thank you, Chair. Deputy Minister, the evaluation of the childcare offer, when it was published last year, said that there was very little evidence currently available to determine what its impact was. You're going to be producing a second evaluation in November this year; do you expect to see some indications now of the impactJulie Morgan AM: Well, the evaluation of the first year of the childcare offer was very limited, because the childcare offer wasn't available throughout the whole of Wales. And it was a very early implementation phase. So, obviously it takes time to grow. And the evaluation for year 2, I think, will also show a limited impact for the same reasons. The offer became available across the whole of Wales only last April. So we've only got since last April that it's actually been fully available. And the parental survey was released to parents in June 2019, therefore any impact on parents in the authorities coming on board in the second year will also be negligible. So, it's from the next one, however, we hope that we will get more information.Dawn Bowden AM: So you think, by the time we get to November 2020, you might have a better picture.Julie Morgan AM: The evaluation will be more meaningful, we think, then, yes.Dawn Bowden AM: Okay. I take that point. What the first year's evaluation did call it a great success. At the end of July, we hit almost 16,000 children accessing the offer, which obviously means that there are 16,000 families benefiting from this, and the feedback that we have had from parents is that they have been able to--. They've got more money available, which is obvious, which is great, because obviously more money is available to plunge into the economy and carry out that sort of thing, and we've got examples of parents who've been supported into work through programmes like Parents, Childcare and Employment to begin with, and then have gone on to access the offer. So, that's again a progression. So, I think we are seeing signs that people are moving on, have got more ability to be flexible in the work that they're doing, but I hope that when we look at it again, we will be able to see people actually moving into work because of having the access to childcare.Dawn Bowden AM: Okay. Before--Lynne Neagle AM: Are you going to move on Sian's got a supplementary.Sian Gwenllian AM: Just a question on funding for the childcare offer. If you foresee that there's going to be more people going to be taking up that offer through the fact that you're marketing it more, what if the same situation arises that has happened on Anglesey The take-up has been very good there, but the money that the Welsh Government has been allocating to Anglesey doesn't match that. What if it happens in every local authority right across Wales Are you confident there's going to be plenty of money available to respond to that demandJulie Morgan AM: Based on the current levels of take-up and looking at the rates of increase each month, we expect to spend in the region of PS50 million to PS55 million in this financial year. Our published plans already include the provision of PS40 million, and we're absolutely committed to making available the total funding that is needed to deliver on the offer. It is fantastic to see the offer being so well received on Ynys Mon, recognising, as Janet said earlier, it is demand led. We are managing it within the normal budgetary process. Local authorities will get the full funding that is needed. It's this year now that the big increase has happened; the previous two years--Sian Gwenllian AM: So, local authorities won't have to find the extra money out of their own pots.Julie Morgan AM: No, absolutely not. This is funded by the Welsh Government.Sian Gwenllian AM: Yes. You can assure them.Lynne Neagle AM: Dawn.Dawn Bowden AM: Thank you, Chair. You've already alluded to this in answer to Janet earlier on, about extending the childcare offer to those in training and education. You also talk about'on the cusp'of returning to work. So, I'm not quite sure what'on the cusp'of returning to work is, but from the committee's point of view, we're very pleased that you've reached that conclusion, because it was one of the recommendations that we had following the scrutiny of the Bill. So, can you say a little more about that, bearing in mind that I'm also conscious that you've told Hefin you're going to be making an announcement shortly So you may not be able to say too much. But a little bit more about the inclusion of parents in training and education, what'on the cusp of returning to work'is--what that means from your perspective--and how you've arrived at that decision now, six months into the programme. What is it that's made you move towards that conclusionJulie Morgan AM: Well, opposed to an add-on later onNicola Edwards: You're quite right. Most people coming through the education system will have some awareness of Welsh although I think it's probably important to remember we do also employ people from outside of wales.Suzy Davies AM: Yes, but the majority, being realistic.Nicola Edwards: But they don't necessarily have Welsh that is appropriate. They've got Welsh that they've developed in school. It's not necessarily appropriate for then teaching that language to children, who may be coming from families who don't use Welsh at home. So, that might be the first interaction that child has with the language. So, there's a lot of that in terms of child development and how you develop children bilingually, particularly if they're coming from English-medium homes, and reinforcing the language in language choices. There will also be some people who are, perhaps--we see this quite a lot in the office--quite confident in terms of speaking Welsh but less so in terms of some of the paperwork, the reporting, the writing and the interacting with parents more officially, which we need to think about as well. But it is mainly about getting people to a point where they can transmit that language onwards in a confident and meaningful way.Suzy Davies AM: Okay. And it's ingrained in the early years training.Nicola Edwards: Yes.Suzy Davies AM: Okay. That's fine. Thank you for that. Thank you, Chair.Lynne Neagle AM: Just before we move on, you said that 29 per cent of the take-up of the childcare offer is either through Welsh or is bilingual. Have you got any figures about how many children are accessing it in Welsh onlyNicola Edwards: We will have. It becomes--. With the way we do it, it's because of the way that the setting defines their language category, and

What did Janet Finch-Saunders think of childcare when discussing differences of care provision in different parts of Wales

The Welsh and UK Governments had followed a demand-driven approach to the childcare market, with subsidies mainly given to working parents, which was a mistake and should be more universally available. The demand-driven approach was based more on certain factors: geographic spread in terms of it being more universal, and whether that's the right way. It was hard for children to mix with peers from different backgrounds and age groups? Next, some areas had traditionally got more childcare anyway because they had traditionally more demand in those areas, so there was not a level playing field to start from.

offer are also available in Welsh and bilingually. Recruitment and retention within the childcare and play sector is quite challenging in any case. Recruiting and retaining staff with really good Welsh language skills adds an extra dimension to it, and that it's a point that Mudiad Meithrin makes to us quite regularly, that they do struggle to find staff with the right skills. So, upskilling the existing workforce is a key part of it, but also doing more to attract people in with Welsh language skills in the first place in terms of the training courses that we're taking forward, and thinking about that in the context of the targets within Cymraeg 2050 and the aim to get to one million Welsh speakers. So, as the Deputy Minister said, we've got quite a number of children accessing the offer in Welsh-medium or bilingual settings at the moment. We're going to be doing some baselining work against that in terms of local authorities'Welsh in education strategic plans and education places, and what we can then do to increase the number of childcare places in parallel with that so that you can make sure that you start that pathway through learning Welsh, interacting with education and childcare through Welsh at a much earlier stage.Lynne Neagle AM: Suzy, you've got a supplementary.Suzy Davies AM: Just on this early point, anybody who's been through the Welsh education system, which is 20 years now, will have some Welsh language skills, obviously to differing degrees. For the entrants that are coming into childcare training now, there are going to be very few of them, realistically, with no Welsh at all, so what's actually being incorporated into the early years care training to make sure, at that stage, that the Welsh language skills are being developed, as that's how we collect it. We do go down to individual child level, although it's anonymised, data collection on a termly basis. So I'll have a look and see if we can send you through the last term.Lynne Neagle AM: Maybe if the committee could have a note, that would be really useful.Nicola Edwards: Yes, that's fine.Lynne Neagle AM: We've got some questions now on childcare from Dawn Bowden.Dawn Bowden AM: Thank you, Chair. Deputy Minister, the evaluation of the childcare offer, when it was published last year, said that there was very little evidence currently available to determine what its impact was. You're going to be producing a second evaluation in November this year; do you expect to see some indications now of the impactJulie Morgan AM: Well, the evaluation of the first year of the childcare offer was very limited, because the childcare offer wasn't available throughout the whole of Wales. And it was a very early implementation phase. So, obviously it takes time to grow. And the evaluation for year 2, I think, will also show a limited impact for the same reasons. The offer became available across the whole of Wales only last April. So we've only got since last April that it's actually been fully available. And the parental survey was released to parents in June 2019, therefore any impact on parents in the authorities coming on board in the second year will also be negligible. So, it's from the next one, however, we hope that we will get more information.Dawn Bowden AM: So you think, by the time we get to November 2020, you might have a better picture.Julie Morgan AM: The evaluation will be more meaningful, we think, then, yes.Dawn Bowden AM: Okay. I take that point. What the first year's evaluation did call it a great success. At the end of July, we hit almost 16,000 children accessing the offer, which obviously means that there are 16,000 families benefiting from this, and the feedback that we have had from parents is that they have been able to--. They've got more money available, which is obvious, which is great, because obviously more money is available to plunge into the economy and carry out that sort of thing, and we've got examples of parents who've been supported into work through programmes like Parents, Childcare and Employment to begin with, and then have gone on to access the offer. So, that's again a progression. So, I think we are seeing signs that people are moving on, have got more ability to be flexible in the work that they're doing, but I hope that when we look at it again, we will be able to see people actually moving into work because of having the access to childcare.Dawn Bowden AM: Okay. Before--Lynne Neagle AM: Are you going to move on Sian's got a supplementary.Sian Gwenllian AM: Just a question on funding for the childcare offer. If you foresee that there's going to be more people going to be taking up that offer through the fact that you're marketing it more, what if the same situation arises that has happened on Anglesey The take-up has been very good there, but the money that the Welsh Government has been allocating to Anglesey doesn't match that. What if it happens in every local authority right across Wales Are you confident there's going to be plenty of money available to respond to that demandJulie Morgan AM: Based on the current levels of take-up and looking at the rates of increase each month, we expect to spend in the region of PS50 million to PS55 million in this financial year. Our published plans already include the provision of PS40 million, and we're absolutely committed to making available the total funding that is needed to deliver on the offer. It is fantastic to see the offer being so well received on Ynys Mon, recognising, as Janet said earlier, it is demand led. We are managing it within the normal budgetary process. Local authorities will get the full funding that is needed. It's this year now that the big increase has happened; the previous two years--Sian Gwenllian AM: So, local authorities won't have to find the extra money out of their own pots.Julie Morgan AM: No, absolutely not. This is funded by the Welsh Government.Sian Gwenllian AM: Yes. You can assure them.Lynne Neagle AM: Dawn.Dawn Bowden AM: Thank you, Chair. You've already alluded to this in answer to Janet earlier on, about extending the childcare offer to those in training and education. You also talk about'on the cusp'of returning to work. So, I'm not quite sure what'on the cusp'of returning to work is, but from the committee's point of view, we're very pleased that you've reached that conclusion, because it was one of the recommendations that we had following the scrutiny of the Bill. So, can you say a little more about that, bearing in mind that I'm also conscious that you've told Hefin you're going to be making an announcement shortly So you may not be able to say too much. But a little bit more about the inclusion of parents in training and education, what'on the cusp of returning to work'is--what that means from your perspective--and how you've arrived at that decision now, six months into the programme. What is it that's made you move towards that conclusionJulie Morgan AM: Well, opposed to an add-on later onNicola Edwards: You're quite right. Most people coming through the education system will have some awareness of Welsh although I think it's probably important to remember we do also employ people from outside of wales.Suzy Davies AM: Yes, but the majority, being realistic.Nicola Edwards: But they don't necessarily have Welsh that is appropriate. They've got Welsh that they've developed in school. It's not necessarily appropriate for then teaching that language to children, who may be coming from families who don't use Welsh at home. So, that might be the first interaction that child has with the language. So, there's a lot of that in terms of child development and how you develop children bilingually, particularly if they're coming from English-medium homes, and reinforcing the language in language choices. There will also be some people who are, perhaps--we see this quite a lot in the office--quite confident in terms of speaking Welsh but less so in terms of some of the paperwork, the reporting, the writing and the interacting with parents more officially, which we need to think about as well. But it is mainly about getting people to a point where they can transmit that language onwards in a confident and meaningful way.Suzy Davies AM: Okay. And it's ingrained in the early years training.Nicola Edwards: Yes.Suzy Davies AM: Okay. That's fine. Thank you for that. Thank you, Chair.Lynne Neagle AM: Just before we move on, you said that 29 per cent of the take-up of the childcare offer is either through Welsh or is bilingual. Have you got any figures about how many children are accessing it in Welsh onlyNicola Edwards: We will have. It becomes--. With the way we do it, it's because of the way that the setting defines their language category, and

What's the conclusion of the discussion about differences of care provision in different parts of Wales

The team was aware that different local authorities actually had adopted different patterns of providing early education. And with the Flying Start programme being geographically targeted, with the education being determined by the local authorities, they knew that there was a variance throughout Wales. Next some of their care provision was universally available in certain areas. Then historically, that was definitely true, and they were certainly planning to expand it, developing a more integrated approach towards the early years. Finally they had got the system of inspection to ensure that.

call it a great success. At the end of July, we hit almost 16,000 children accessing the offer, which obviously means that there are 16,000 families benefiting from this, and the feedback that we have had from parents is that they have been able to--. They've got more money available, which is obvious, which is great, because obviously more money is available to plunge into the economy and carry out that sort of thing, and we've got examples of parents who've been supported into work through programmes like Parents, Childcare and Employment to begin with, and then have gone on to access the offer. So, that's again a progression. So, I think we are seeing signs that people are moving on, have got more ability to be flexible in the work that they're doing, but I hope that when we look at it again, we will be able to see people actually moving into work because of having the access to childcare.Dawn Bowden AM: Okay. Before--Lynne Neagle AM: Are you going to move on Sian's got a supplementary.Sian Gwenllian AM: Just a question on funding for the childcare offer. If you foresee that there's going to be more people going to be taking up that offer through the fact that you're marketing it more, what if the same situation arises that has happened on Anglesey The take-up has been very good there, but the money that the Welsh Government has been allocating to Anglesey doesn't match that. What if it happens in every local authority right across Wales Are you confident there's going to be plenty of money available to respond to that demandJulie Morgan AM: Based on the current levels of take-up and looking at the rates of increase each month, we expect to spend in the region of show, however, was that 94 per cent of respondents said that they were already using formal childcare before the offer came into place. A couple of things, really: are you surprised at that, and is that likely to inform the way that you develop the offer in the futureJulie Morgan AM: No, I'm not surprised at all. When it started off, it was only available in seven local authorities. In terms of how the families found out that it was available, they found it out through the childcare providers, where they already had their children there. So it was absolutely what we would have expected, and that will continue. But, of course, we were not able to fully advertise the childcare offer until it was available in all the local authorities, which was last April. So we are planning, this autumn, quite a big push now to try to make it available to everybody--so everybody knows about it. So, no, this is the pattern we would have expected, and I think anybody who's involved in starting up something in childcare will know you have to wait a number of years before you actually see it being fully taken up.Dawn Bowden AM: I guess the question that it raises in my mind is: does this mean that, actually, it hasn't been an incentive to get somebody back into work, because they were already in work and already had childcare provision What you've done is you've directed money to people who were already spending that money anyway. So it hasn't been a move towards getting people into work because they couldn't afford childcare.Julie Morgan AM: Well I think that that is something that we are moving towards, because the take-up of the offer is actually increasing each month, which is why I Suzy, then Sian. Sorry, Dawn.Suzy Davies AM: Just on the cost element, because if you do roll out this programme, obviously, on the back of evidence through a review, it is going to cost extra money. Early years is one of the eight priority areas for Government. There are fairly generous Barnett consequentials coming from the comprehensive spending review and announcements on schools from the UK Government, and while I accept that you've only got annual commitments there, they're still substantial. How much money have you managed to secure for early years from the most recent announcement, and when have you planned to actually use that, maybe for some of this workJulie Morgan AM: Have you got some information on thatNicola Edwards: The budget process is ongoing internally, so I think'secured'is probably a slightly premature phrase.Suzy Davies AM: Am I allowed to ask instead how much you've asked for, then All I'm after is some reassurance that you will be getting some of this money, and as it is one of the eight priorities, certainly we would expect to see you getting a substantial amount of money for early years.Julie Morgan AM: As one of the Government's priorities, we would expect to get any money that came as a result of any Barnett consequentials.Suzy Davies AM: Okay. And it will be in the draft budget that we know for sure if it is successful.Julie Morgan AM: It's all in the process--Lynne Neagle AM: And the committee will want to look very carefully at that, obviously.Julie Morgan AM: It's in the process at the moment.Suzy Davies AM: There we are. Just giving you a good warning.Lynne Neagle AM: Sian.Sian Gwenllian AM: How much would it cost to move to a child-centred approach, which means that every child would be able to on that.Jo-Anne Daniels: The only thing I'd add is that--and, again, I think the Minister has referred to this--the costs that HMRC presented us with at the end of the discovery phase were significantly higher than the costs that had initially been outlined and that we outlined to the committee in the regulatory impact assessment. So, our conclusion is that we can deliver a cheaper system and a system that has the flexibility that the Deputy Minister has referred to by working with local authorities rather than HMRC. So, there is an important issue around value for money as well and making sure that the investment that we're making into developing the national system is one that--that, in a sense, that investment stays in Wales. So, obviously, the money that we're paying over to HMRC to run the system would be supporting HMRC and their employees wherever they may be based, many of them not based in Wales; investment in local authorities to administer the system means that we're retaining more of that investment here.Sian Gwenllian AM: Well, I congratulate you on persuading local government and WLGA to change their minds, because they actually told this committee that they favoured the HMRC option--and this is only going back a few months--because it will remove--and this is quoting them--'it will remove the administrative burden of receiving applications and checking eligibility from local authorities'-- blah, blah, blah, blah. So, they've obviously changed their minds as well, which is, you know--. I congratulate you on that, but it does present us as a committee with a little bit of a problem, really, because, if we're told one thing a few months ago and then we're told something completely different today, you know, evidence--we have to go on evidence that we've heard, and the the delivery of the programme and the account management activities, and there are formal account meetings that look at this sort of thing once a year--Suzy Davies AM: So, what have they told youJulie Morgan AM: --and these meetings will take place in November 2019. That's when the specific delivery issues will be discussed in depth, so that's when we'll find out what has happened and why there may have been a drop.Suzy Davies AM: Can I just ask about the timing of that Because if you already know that there's a 6 per cent drop, why will it take the best part of a year to--well, November's only next month, to be fair, now, but why will it take that length of time to establish why there's a drop You'd have thought if you'd seen a trend like that--Julie Morgan AM: Obviously, they meet at certain times and they will assess what's happened. That seems quite normal to me.Suzy Davies AM: Okay, but we'll get a note on that, is it It's just that they knew this six months ago.Julie Morgan AM: In November, we'll have more information about this, so we can let you have information about that.Suzy Davies AM: That would be really helpful, just for--. I'm sure constituents in Denbighshire will want to know about that. And then finally from me, Chair, if I may, Flying Start beneficiaries--it's got a specific explanation of what a Flying Start beneficiary is, but I think, particularly in view of the evidence we've heard on this committee about parental support in connection with the removal of the defence of reasonable chastisement, for example, this committee is very concerned about what's out there in terms of parental support. Eighteen per cent of Flying Start beneficiaries have parents attending the informal parenting

Summarize the discussion about the demand-driven approach in the programme.

Janet Finch-Saunders believed that the Welsh and UK Governments had followed a demand-driven approach to the childcare market, with subsidies mainly given to working parents, so there was not a level playing field to start from. However, Julie Morgan insisted that some of their provision was universally available in certain areas. Hence historically that was definitely true of the programme. Then they were certainly planning to expand the programme, which is believed to be a demand-led approach. Last they were managing it within the normal budgetary process, developing a more integrated approach towards the early years, and had got the system of inspection to ensure that.

that's how we collect it. We do go down to individual child level, although it's anonymised, data collection on a termly basis. So I'll have a look and see if we can send you through the last term.Lynne Neagle AM: Maybe if the committee could have a note, that would be really useful.Nicola Edwards: Yes, that's fine.Lynne Neagle AM: We've got some questions now on childcare from Dawn Bowden.Dawn Bowden AM: Thank you, Chair. Deputy Minister, the evaluation of the childcare offer, when it was published last year, said that there was very little evidence currently available to determine what its impact was. You're going to be producing a second evaluation in November this year; do you expect to see some indications now of the impactJulie Morgan AM: Well, the evaluation of the first year of the childcare offer was very limited, because the childcare offer wasn't available throughout the whole of Wales. And it was a very early implementation phase. So, obviously it takes time to grow. And the evaluation for year 2, I think, will also show a limited impact for the same reasons. The offer became available across the whole of Wales only last April. So we've only got since last April that it's actually been fully available. And the parental survey was released to parents in June 2019, therefore any impact on parents in the authorities coming on board in the second year will also be negligible. So, it's from the next one, however, we hope that we will get more information.Dawn Bowden AM: So you think, by the time we get to November 2020, you might have a better picture.Julie Morgan AM: The evaluation will be more meaningful, we think, then, yes.Dawn Bowden AM: Okay. I take that point. What the first year's evaluation did show, however, was that 94 per cent of respondents said that they were already using formal childcare before the offer came into place. A couple of things, really: are you surprised at that, and is that likely to inform the way that you develop the offer in the futureJulie Morgan AM: No, I'm not surprised at all. When it started off, it was only available in seven local authorities. In terms of how the families found out that it was available, they found it out through the childcare providers, where they already had their children there. So it was absolutely what we would have expected, and that will continue. But, of course, we were not able to fully advertise the childcare offer until it was available in all the local authorities, which was last April. So we are planning, this autumn, quite a big push now to try to make it available to everybody--so everybody knows about it. So, no, this is the pattern we would have expected, and I think anybody who's involved in starting up something in childcare will know you have to wait a number of years before you actually see it being fully taken up.Dawn Bowden AM: I guess the question that it raises in my mind is: does this mean that, actually, it hasn't been an incentive to get somebody back into work, because they were already in work and already had childcare provision What you've done is you've directed money to people who were already spending that money anyway. So it hasn't been a move towards getting people into work because they couldn't afford childcare.Julie Morgan AM: Well I think that that is something that we are moving towards, because the take-up of the offer is actually increasing each month, which is why I Suzy, then Sian. Sorry, Dawn.Suzy Davies AM: Just on the cost element, because if you do roll out this programme, obviously, on the back of evidence through a review, it is going to cost extra money. Early years is one of the eight priority areas for Government. There are fairly generous Barnett consequentials coming from the comprehensive spending review and announcements on schools from the UK Government, and while I accept that you've only got annual commitments there, they're still substantial. How much money have you managed to secure for early years from the most recent announcement, and when have you planned to actually use that, maybe for some of this workJulie Morgan AM: Have you got some information on thatNicola Edwards: The budget process is ongoing internally, so I think'secured'is probably a slightly premature phrase.Suzy Davies AM: Am I allowed to ask instead how much you've asked for, then All I'm after is some reassurance that you will be getting some of this money, and as it is one of the eight priorities, certainly we would expect to see you getting a substantial amount of money for early years.Julie Morgan AM: As one of the Government's priorities, we would expect to get any money that came as a result of any Barnett consequentials.Suzy Davies AM: Okay. And it will be in the draft budget that we know for sure if it is successful.Julie Morgan AM: It's all in the process--Lynne Neagle AM: And the committee will want to look very carefully at that, obviously.Julie Morgan AM: It's in the process at the moment.Suzy Davies AM: There we are. Just giving you a good warning.Lynne Neagle AM: Sian.Sian Gwenllian AM: How much would it cost to move to a child-centred approach, which means that every child would be able to PS50 million to PS55 million in this financial year. Our published plans already include the provision of PS40 million, and we're absolutely committed to making available the total funding that is needed to deliver on the offer. It is fantastic to see the offer being so well received on Ynys Mon, recognising, as Janet said earlier, it is demand led. We are managing it within the normal budgetary process. Local authorities will get the full funding that is needed. It's this year now that the big increase has happened; the previous two years--Sian Gwenllian AM: So, local authorities won't have to find the extra money out of their own pots.Julie Morgan AM: No, absolutely not. This is funded by the Welsh Government.Sian Gwenllian AM: Yes. You can assure them.Lynne Neagle AM: Dawn.Dawn Bowden AM: Thank you, Chair. You've already alluded to this in answer to Janet earlier on, about extending the childcare offer to those in training and education. You also talk about'on the cusp'of returning to work. So, I'm not quite sure what'on the cusp'of returning to work is, but from the committee's point of view, we're very pleased that you've reached that conclusion, because it was one of the recommendations that we had following the scrutiny of the Bill. So, can you say a little more about that, bearing in mind that I'm also conscious that you've told Hefin you're going to be making an announcement shortly So you may not be able to say too much. But a little bit more about the inclusion of parents in training and education, what'on the cusp of returning to work'is--what that means from your perspective--and how you've arrived at that decision now, six months into the programme. What is it that's made you move towards that conclusionJulie Morgan AM: Well, realise that. Yes, I got all that.Jo-Anne Daniels: So, part of the reason for using 10 is to try to ensure that we build economies of scale and that we have a more efficient operation. Those authorities that undertake that function are given a specific grant in order to do that. That grant is ring-fenced to that purpose.Suzy Davies AM: Could you give us an idea of the price tagJo-Anne Daniels: At the moment, it's about PS2. 5 million.Suzy Davies AM: Okay, just as a round figure--that's fine.Nicola Edwards: Just for the administration. They get separate funding for the childcare, obviously.Suzy Davies AM: Okay, thank you.Jo-Anne Daniels: So that, as I said, is a ring-fenced sum that they use to administer the offer. We are now starting the detailed work to define the new system requirements so that we will have a single application process across Wales, moving forward. As part of that work, we'll need to consider the detailed costings, but our initial estimate suggests that it would be less than the cost proposed by HMRC.Suzy Davies AM: Okay, when those costings are worked up, perhaps we could have a note comparing the two figures.Jo-Anne Daniels: Yes, we would be very happy to share more detail on that.Suzy Davies AM: Thank you.Lynne Neagle AM: Sian.Sian Gwenllian AM: If it became a universal offer, would those costs reduce Would there be so much bureaucracy involved in checking eligibility and stuff if every child was open to the offerJo-Anne Daniels: So, clearly, if every child is eligible, then a large part of the process falls away in terms of the need to verify income and so on. That doesn't mean that there's no administration. For example, with the foundation phase, which is universally available, there is an application process and there

What's the decision of the discussion about the demand-driven approach in the programme

Julie Morgan insisted that some of their provision was universally available in certain areas. Hence historically that was definitely true of the programme. Then they were certainly planning to expand the programme, which is believed to be a demand-led approach. Last they were managing it within the normal budgetary process, developing a more integrated approach towards the early years, and had got the system of inspection to ensure that.

realise that. Yes, I got all that.Jo-Anne Daniels: So, part of the reason for using 10 is to try to ensure that we build economies of scale and that we have a more efficient operation. Those authorities that undertake that function are given a specific grant in order to do that. That grant is ring-fenced to that purpose.Suzy Davies AM: Could you give us an idea of the price tagJo-Anne Daniels: At the moment, it's about PS2. 5 million.Suzy Davies AM: Okay, just as a round figure--that's fine.Nicola Edwards: Just for the administration. They get separate funding for the childcare, obviously.Suzy Davies AM: Okay, thank you.Jo-Anne Daniels: So that, as I said, is a ring-fenced sum that they use to administer the offer. We are now starting the detailed work to define the new system requirements so that we will have a single application process across Wales, moving forward. As part of that work, we'll need to consider the detailed costings, but our initial estimate suggests that it would be less than the cost proposed by HMRC.Suzy Davies AM: Okay, when those costings are worked up, perhaps we could have a note comparing the two figures.Jo-Anne Daniels: Yes, we would be very happy to share more detail on that.Suzy Davies AM: Thank you.Lynne Neagle AM: Sian.Sian Gwenllian AM: If it became a universal offer, would those costs reduce Would there be so much bureaucracy involved in checking eligibility and stuff if every child was open to the offerJo-Anne Daniels: So, clearly, if every child is eligible, then a large part of the process falls away in terms of the need to verify income and so on. That doesn't mean that there's no administration. For example, with the foundation phase, which is universally available, there is an application process and there show, however, was that 94 per cent of respondents said that they were already using formal childcare before the offer came into place. A couple of things, really: are you surprised at that, and is that likely to inform the way that you develop the offer in the futureJulie Morgan AM: No, I'm not surprised at all. When it started off, it was only available in seven local authorities. In terms of how the families found out that it was available, they found it out through the childcare providers, where they already had their children there. So it was absolutely what we would have expected, and that will continue. But, of course, we were not able to fully advertise the childcare offer until it was available in all the local authorities, which was last April. So we are planning, this autumn, quite a big push now to try to make it available to everybody--so everybody knows about it. So, no, this is the pattern we would have expected, and I think anybody who's involved in starting up something in childcare will know you have to wait a number of years before you actually see it being fully taken up.Dawn Bowden AM: I guess the question that it raises in my mind is: does this mean that, actually, it hasn't been an incentive to get somebody back into work, because they were already in work and already had childcare provision What you've done is you've directed money to people who were already spending that money anyway. So it hasn't been a move towards getting people into work because they couldn't afford childcare.Julie Morgan AM: Well I think that that is something that we are moving towards, because the take-up of the offer is actually increasing each month, which is why I PS50 million to PS55 million in this financial year. Our published plans already include the provision of PS40 million, and we're absolutely committed to making available the total funding that is needed to deliver on the offer. It is fantastic to see the offer being so well received on Ynys Mon, recognising, as Janet said earlier, it is demand led. We are managing it within the normal budgetary process. Local authorities will get the full funding that is needed. It's this year now that the big increase has happened; the previous two years--Sian Gwenllian AM: So, local authorities won't have to find the extra money out of their own pots.Julie Morgan AM: No, absolutely not. This is funded by the Welsh Government.Sian Gwenllian AM: Yes. You can assure them.Lynne Neagle AM: Dawn.Dawn Bowden AM: Thank you, Chair. You've already alluded to this in answer to Janet earlier on, about extending the childcare offer to those in training and education. You also talk about'on the cusp'of returning to work. So, I'm not quite sure what'on the cusp'of returning to work is, but from the committee's point of view, we're very pleased that you've reached that conclusion, because it was one of the recommendations that we had following the scrutiny of the Bill. So, can you say a little more about that, bearing in mind that I'm also conscious that you've told Hefin you're going to be making an announcement shortly So you may not be able to say too much. But a little bit more about the inclusion of parents in training and education, what'on the cusp of returning to work'is--what that means from your perspective--and how you've arrived at that decision now, six months into the programme. What is it that's made you move towards that conclusionJulie Morgan AM: Well, Suzy, then Sian. Sorry, Dawn.Suzy Davies AM: Just on the cost element, because if you do roll out this programme, obviously, on the back of evidence through a review, it is going to cost extra money. Early years is one of the eight priority areas for Government. There are fairly generous Barnett consequentials coming from the comprehensive spending review and announcements on schools from the UK Government, and while I accept that you've only got annual commitments there, they're still substantial. How much money have you managed to secure for early years from the most recent announcement, and when have you planned to actually use that, maybe for some of this workJulie Morgan AM: Have you got some information on thatNicola Edwards: The budget process is ongoing internally, so I think'secured'is probably a slightly premature phrase.Suzy Davies AM: Am I allowed to ask instead how much you've asked for, then All I'm after is some reassurance that you will be getting some of this money, and as it is one of the eight priorities, certainly we would expect to see you getting a substantial amount of money for early years.Julie Morgan AM: As one of the Government's priorities, we would expect to get any money that came as a result of any Barnett consequentials.Suzy Davies AM: Okay. And it will be in the draft budget that we know for sure if it is successful.Julie Morgan AM: It's all in the process--Lynne Neagle AM: And the committee will want to look very carefully at that, obviously.Julie Morgan AM: It's in the process at the moment.Suzy Davies AM: There we are. Just giving you a good warning.Lynne Neagle AM: Sian.Sian Gwenllian AM: How much would it cost to move to a child-centred approach, which means that every child would be able to expenditure in that phase. How concerned are you about that and the impact that that will have on the way in which the foundation phase is taught in our schools The foundation phase is now part of the education improvement grant, which has seen a reduction of 10 per cent, and it has to compete against other expenditure streams within that greater pot of funding. So, are you concerned that money is being lost and that that will have an impact on standards in the foundation phaseJulie Morgan AM: I haven't seen any evidence. Obviously, I must reiterate the foundation phase does come under the Minister for Education, but I haven't seen any evidence of any standards being lowered, and the reports from Estyn are very good. In fact, I think the foundation phase is one of our great joys, that we absolutely celebrate it, and so I'd be very concerned if I thought there was any drop in standards in the foundation phase, and I certainly haven't had any evidence of that. I would want to guard against that.Sian Gwenllian AM: Exactly, but if there are fewer teaching assistants in the system because of the cuts, it's going to impact on standards, at the end of the day.Julie Morgan AM: I think we have to be very careful to see that lower standards are not implemented, because it was groundbreaking when we brought it in, and it has proved to be a great success, so we want to make sure that's guarded.Lynne Neagle AM: Thank you. Janet.Janet Finch-Saunders AM: Going back to my original question about the big differences in amounts of early childhood education and care provision in different parts of Wales, the Welsh and UK Governments have followed a demand-driven approach to the childcare market, with subsidies

What did Julie Morgan recommend to do when discussing the demand-driven approach in the programme and why

Julie Morgan certainly plans to expand the programme, which is believed to be a demand-led approach. Last they were managing it within the normal budgetary process, developing a more integrated approach towards the early years, and had got the system of inspection to ensure that. Because some of their provision was universally available in certain areas. Hence historically that was definitely true of the programme.

that's how we collect it. We do go down to individual child level, although it's anonymised, data collection on a termly basis. So I'll have a look and see if we can send you through the last term.Lynne Neagle AM: Maybe if the committee could have a note, that would be really useful.Nicola Edwards: Yes, that's fine.Lynne Neagle AM: We've got some questions now on childcare from Dawn Bowden.Dawn Bowden AM: Thank you, Chair. Deputy Minister, the evaluation of the childcare offer, when it was published last year, said that there was very little evidence currently available to determine what its impact was. You're going to be producing a second evaluation in November this year; do you expect to see some indications now of the impactJulie Morgan AM: Well, the evaluation of the first year of the childcare offer was very limited, because the childcare offer wasn't available throughout the whole of Wales. And it was a very early implementation phase. So, obviously it takes time to grow. And the evaluation for year 2, I think, will also show a limited impact for the same reasons. The offer became available across the whole of Wales only last April. So we've only got since last April that it's actually been fully available. And the parental survey was released to parents in June 2019, therefore any impact on parents in the authorities coming on board in the second year will also be negligible. So, it's from the next one, however, we hope that we will get more information.Dawn Bowden AM: So you think, by the time we get to November 2020, you might have a better picture.Julie Morgan AM: The evaluation will be more meaningful, we think, then, yes.Dawn Bowden AM: Okay. I take that point. What the first year's evaluation did call it a great success. At the end of July, we hit almost 16,000 children accessing the offer, which obviously means that there are 16,000 families benefiting from this, and the feedback that we have had from parents is that they have been able to--. They've got more money available, which is obvious, which is great, because obviously more money is available to plunge into the economy and carry out that sort of thing, and we've got examples of parents who've been supported into work through programmes like Parents, Childcare and Employment to begin with, and then have gone on to access the offer. So, that's again a progression. So, I think we are seeing signs that people are moving on, have got more ability to be flexible in the work that they're doing, but I hope that when we look at it again, we will be able to see people actually moving into work because of having the access to childcare.Dawn Bowden AM: Okay. Before--Lynne Neagle AM: Are you going to move on Sian's got a supplementary.Sian Gwenllian AM: Just a question on funding for the childcare offer. If you foresee that there's going to be more people going to be taking up that offer through the fact that you're marketing it more, what if the same situation arises that has happened on Anglesey The take-up has been very good there, but the money that the Welsh Government has been allocating to Anglesey doesn't match that. What if it happens in every local authority right across Wales Are you confident there's going to be plenty of money available to respond to that demandJulie Morgan AM: Based on the current levels of take-up and looking at the rates of increase each month, we expect to spend in the region of offer are also available in Welsh and bilingually. Recruitment and retention within the childcare and play sector is quite challenging in any case. Recruiting and retaining staff with really good Welsh language skills adds an extra dimension to it, and that it's a point that Mudiad Meithrin makes to us quite regularly, that they do struggle to find staff with the right skills. So, upskilling the existing workforce is a key part of it, but also doing more to attract people in with Welsh language skills in the first place in terms of the training courses that we're taking forward, and thinking about that in the context of the targets within Cymraeg 2050 and the aim to get to one million Welsh speakers. So, as the Deputy Minister said, we've got quite a number of children accessing the offer in Welsh-medium or bilingual settings at the moment. We're going to be doing some baselining work against that in terms of local authorities'Welsh in education strategic plans and education places, and what we can then do to increase the number of childcare places in parallel with that so that you can make sure that you start that pathway through learning Welsh, interacting with education and childcare through Welsh at a much earlier stage.Lynne Neagle AM: Suzy, you've got a supplementary.Suzy Davies AM: Just on this early point, anybody who's been through the Welsh education system, which is 20 years now, will have some Welsh language skills, obviously to differing degrees. For the entrants that are coming into childcare training now, there are going to be very few of them, realistically, with no Welsh at all, so what's actually being incorporated into the early years care training to make sure, at that stage, that the Welsh language skills are being developed, as opposed to an add-on later onNicola Edwards: You're quite right. Most people coming through the education system will have some awareness of Welsh although I think it's probably important to remember we do also employ people from outside of wales.Suzy Davies AM: Yes, but the majority, being realistic.Nicola Edwards: But they don't necessarily have Welsh that is appropriate. They've got Welsh that they've developed in school. It's not necessarily appropriate for then teaching that language to children, who may be coming from families who don't use Welsh at home. So, that might be the first interaction that child has with the language. So, there's a lot of that in terms of child development and how you develop children bilingually, particularly if they're coming from English-medium homes, and reinforcing the language in language choices. There will also be some people who are, perhaps--we see this quite a lot in the office--quite confident in terms of speaking Welsh but less so in terms of some of the paperwork, the reporting, the writing and the interacting with parents more officially, which we need to think about as well. But it is mainly about getting people to a point where they can transmit that language onwards in a confident and meaningful way.Suzy Davies AM: Okay. And it's ingrained in the early years training.Nicola Edwards: Yes.Suzy Davies AM: Okay. That's fine. Thank you for that. Thank you, Chair.Lynne Neagle AM: Just before we move on, you said that 29 per cent of the take-up of the childcare offer is either through Welsh or is bilingual. Have you got any figures about how many children are accessing it in Welsh onlyNicola Edwards: We will have. It becomes--. With the way we do it, it's because of the way that the setting defines their language category, and on that.Jo-Anne Daniels: The only thing I'd add is that--and, again, I think the Minister has referred to this--the costs that HMRC presented us with at the end of the discovery phase were significantly higher than the costs that had initially been outlined and that we outlined to the committee in the regulatory impact assessment. So, our conclusion is that we can deliver a cheaper system and a system that has the flexibility that the Deputy Minister has referred to by working with local authorities rather than HMRC. So, there is an important issue around value for money as well and making sure that the investment that we're making into developing the national system is one that--that, in a sense, that investment stays in Wales. So, obviously, the money that we're paying over to HMRC to run the system would be supporting HMRC and their employees wherever they may be based, many of them not based in Wales; investment in local authorities to administer the system means that we're retaining more of that investment here.Sian Gwenllian AM: Well, I congratulate you on persuading local government and WLGA to change their minds, because they actually told this committee that they favoured the HMRC option--and this is only going back a few months--because it will remove--and this is quoting them--'it will remove the administrative burden of receiving applications and checking eligibility from local authorities'-- blah, blah, blah, blah. So, they've obviously changed their minds as well, which is, you know--. I congratulate you on that, but it does present us as a committee with a little bit of a problem, really, because, if we're told one thing a few months ago and then we're told something completely different today, you know, evidence--we have to go on evidence that we've heard, and the

Summarize the discussion about the demand of Welsh language skills.

Julie Morgan thought the demand was very important, and they were pleased that 29 per cent of children taking up the childcare offer were in Welsh or bilingual settings, so that they established a specific programme to develop Welsh language skills in the childcare and played workforce with the National Centre for Learning Welsh to develop workplace Welsh language skills across the sector. But Suzy Davies thought that just on this early point, anybody who had been through the Welsh education system which is 20 years now, would have Welsh language skills obviously to differing degrees. Next, Nicola Edwards alleged that it was not necessarily appropriate for teaching language to children, because they might be coming from families who didn't use Welsh at home, but it is mainly about getting people to a point where they can transmit that language onwards in a confident and meaningful way.

offer are also available in Welsh and bilingually. Recruitment and retention within the childcare and play sector is quite challenging in any case. Recruiting and retaining staff with really good Welsh language skills adds an extra dimension to it, and that it's a point that Mudiad Meithrin makes to us quite regularly, that they do struggle to find staff with the right skills. So, upskilling the existing workforce is a key part of it, but also doing more to attract people in with Welsh language skills in the first place in terms of the training courses that we're taking forward, and thinking about that in the context of the targets within Cymraeg 2050 and the aim to get to one million Welsh speakers. So, as the Deputy Minister said, we've got quite a number of children accessing the offer in Welsh-medium or bilingual settings at the moment. We're going to be doing some baselining work against that in terms of local authorities'Welsh in education strategic plans and education places, and what we can then do to increase the number of childcare places in parallel with that so that you can make sure that you start that pathway through learning Welsh, interacting with education and childcare through Welsh at a much earlier stage.Lynne Neagle AM: Suzy, you've got a supplementary.Suzy Davies AM: Just on this early point, anybody who's been through the Welsh education system, which is 20 years now, will have some Welsh language skills, obviously to differing degrees. For the entrants that are coming into childcare training now, there are going to be very few of them, realistically, with no Welsh at all, so what's actually being incorporated into the early years care training to make sure, at that stage, that the Welsh language skills are being developed, as that's how we collect it. We do go down to individual child level, although it's anonymised, data collection on a termly basis. So I'll have a look and see if we can send you through the last term.Lynne Neagle AM: Maybe if the committee could have a note, that would be really useful.Nicola Edwards: Yes, that's fine.Lynne Neagle AM: We've got some questions now on childcare from Dawn Bowden.Dawn Bowden AM: Thank you, Chair. Deputy Minister, the evaluation of the childcare offer, when it was published last year, said that there was very little evidence currently available to determine what its impact was. You're going to be producing a second evaluation in November this year; do you expect to see some indications now of the impactJulie Morgan AM: Well, the evaluation of the first year of the childcare offer was very limited, because the childcare offer wasn't available throughout the whole of Wales. And it was a very early implementation phase. So, obviously it takes time to grow. And the evaluation for year 2, I think, will also show a limited impact for the same reasons. The offer became available across the whole of Wales only last April. So we've only got since last April that it's actually been fully available. And the parental survey was released to parents in June 2019, therefore any impact on parents in the authorities coming on board in the second year will also be negligible. So, it's from the next one, however, we hope that we will get more information.Dawn Bowden AM: So you think, by the time we get to November 2020, you might have a better picture.Julie Morgan AM: The evaluation will be more meaningful, we think, then, yes.Dawn Bowden AM: Okay. I take that point. What the first year's evaluation did call it a great success. At the end of July, we hit almost 16,000 children accessing the offer, which obviously means that there are 16,000 families benefiting from this, and the feedback that we have had from parents is that they have been able to--. They've got more money available, which is obvious, which is great, because obviously more money is available to plunge into the economy and carry out that sort of thing, and we've got examples of parents who've been supported into work through programmes like Parents, Childcare and Employment to begin with, and then have gone on to access the offer. So, that's again a progression. So, I think we are seeing signs that people are moving on, have got more ability to be flexible in the work that they're doing, but I hope that when we look at it again, we will be able to see people actually moving into work because of having the access to childcare.Dawn Bowden AM: Okay. Before--Lynne Neagle AM: Are you going to move on Sian's got a supplementary.Sian Gwenllian AM: Just a question on funding for the childcare offer. If you foresee that there's going to be more people going to be taking up that offer through the fact that you're marketing it more, what if the same situation arises that has happened on Anglesey The take-up has been very good there, but the money that the Welsh Government has been allocating to Anglesey doesn't match that. What if it happens in every local authority right across Wales Are you confident there's going to be plenty of money available to respond to that demandJulie Morgan AM: Based on the current levels of take-up and looking at the rates of increase each month, we expect to spend in the region of PS50 million to PS55 million in this financial year. Our published plans already include the provision of PS40 million, and we're absolutely committed to making available the total funding that is needed to deliver on the offer. It is fantastic to see the offer being so well received on Ynys Mon, recognising, as Janet said earlier, it is demand led. We are managing it within the normal budgetary process. Local authorities will get the full funding that is needed. It's this year now that the big increase has happened; the previous two years--Sian Gwenllian AM: So, local authorities won't have to find the extra money out of their own pots.Julie Morgan AM: No, absolutely not. This is funded by the Welsh Government.Sian Gwenllian AM: Yes. You can assure them.Lynne Neagle AM: Dawn.Dawn Bowden AM: Thank you, Chair. You've already alluded to this in answer to Janet earlier on, about extending the childcare offer to those in training and education. You also talk about'on the cusp'of returning to work. So, I'm not quite sure what'on the cusp'of returning to work is, but from the committee's point of view, we're very pleased that you've reached that conclusion, because it was one of the recommendations that we had following the scrutiny of the Bill. So, can you say a little more about that, bearing in mind that I'm also conscious that you've told Hefin you're going to be making an announcement shortly So you may not be able to say too much. But a little bit more about the inclusion of parents in training and education, what'on the cusp of returning to work'is--what that means from your perspective--and how you've arrived at that decision now, six months into the programme. What is it that's made you move towards that conclusionJulie Morgan AM: Well, opposed to an add-on later onNicola Edwards: You're quite right. Most people coming through the education system will have some awareness of Welsh although I think it's probably important to remember we do also employ people from outside of wales.Suzy Davies AM: Yes, but the majority, being realistic.Nicola Edwards: But they don't necessarily have Welsh that is appropriate. They've got Welsh that they've developed in school. It's not necessarily appropriate for then teaching that language to children, who may be coming from families who don't use Welsh at home. So, that might be the first interaction that child has with the language. So, there's a lot of that in terms of child development and how you develop children bilingually, particularly if they're coming from English-medium homes, and reinforcing the language in language choices. There will also be some people who are, perhaps--we see this quite a lot in the office--quite confident in terms of speaking Welsh but less so in terms of some of the paperwork, the reporting, the writing and the interacting with parents more officially, which we need to think about as well. But it is mainly about getting people to a point where they can transmit that language onwards in a confident and meaningful way.Suzy Davies AM: Okay. And it's ingrained in the early years training.Nicola Edwards: Yes.Suzy Davies AM: Okay. That's fine. Thank you for that. Thank you, Chair.Lynne Neagle AM: Just before we move on, you said that 29 per cent of the take-up of the childcare offer is either through Welsh or is bilingual. Have you got any figures about how many children are accessing it in Welsh onlyNicola Edwards: We will have. It becomes--. With the way we do it, it's because of the way that the setting defines their language category, and

What did Nicola Edwards think of the need of teaching language when discussing the demand of Welsh language skills

Nicola Edwards alleged that it was not necessarily appropriate for teaching language to children, because they might be coming from families who didn't use Welsh at home, but it is mainly about getting people to a point where they can transmit that language onwards in a confident and meaningful way.

offer are also available in Welsh and bilingually. Recruitment and retention within the childcare and play sector is quite challenging in any case. Recruiting and retaining staff with really good Welsh language skills adds an extra dimension to it, and that it's a point that Mudiad Meithrin makes to us quite regularly, that they do struggle to find staff with the right skills. So, upskilling the existing workforce is a key part of it, but also doing more to attract people in with Welsh language skills in the first place in terms of the training courses that we're taking forward, and thinking about that in the context of the targets within Cymraeg 2050 and the aim to get to one million Welsh speakers. So, as the Deputy Minister said, we've got quite a number of children accessing the offer in Welsh-medium or bilingual settings at the moment. We're going to be doing some baselining work against that in terms of local authorities'Welsh in education strategic plans and education places, and what we can then do to increase the number of childcare places in parallel with that so that you can make sure that you start that pathway through learning Welsh, interacting with education and childcare through Welsh at a much earlier stage.Lynne Neagle AM: Suzy, you've got a supplementary.Suzy Davies AM: Just on this early point, anybody who's been through the Welsh education system, which is 20 years now, will have some Welsh language skills, obviously to differing degrees. For the entrants that are coming into childcare training now, there are going to be very few of them, realistically, with no Welsh at all, so what's actually being incorporated into the early years care training to make sure, at that stage, that the Welsh language skills are being developed, as that's how we collect it. We do go down to individual child level, although it's anonymised, data collection on a termly basis. So I'll have a look and see if we can send you through the last term.Lynne Neagle AM: Maybe if the committee could have a note, that would be really useful.Nicola Edwards: Yes, that's fine.Lynne Neagle AM: We've got some questions now on childcare from Dawn Bowden.Dawn Bowden AM: Thank you, Chair. Deputy Minister, the evaluation of the childcare offer, when it was published last year, said that there was very little evidence currently available to determine what its impact was. You're going to be producing a second evaluation in November this year; do you expect to see some indications now of the impactJulie Morgan AM: Well, the evaluation of the first year of the childcare offer was very limited, because the childcare offer wasn't available throughout the whole of Wales. And it was a very early implementation phase. So, obviously it takes time to grow. And the evaluation for year 2, I think, will also show a limited impact for the same reasons. The offer became available across the whole of Wales only last April. So we've only got since last April that it's actually been fully available. And the parental survey was released to parents in June 2019, therefore any impact on parents in the authorities coming on board in the second year will also be negligible. So, it's from the next one, however, we hope that we will get more information.Dawn Bowden AM: So you think, by the time we get to November 2020, you might have a better picture.Julie Morgan AM: The evaluation will be more meaningful, we think, then, yes.Dawn Bowden AM: Okay. I take that point. What the first year's evaluation did call it a great success. At the end of July, we hit almost 16,000 children accessing the offer, which obviously means that there are 16,000 families benefiting from this, and the feedback that we have had from parents is that they have been able to--. They've got more money available, which is obvious, which is great, because obviously more money is available to plunge into the economy and carry out that sort of thing, and we've got examples of parents who've been supported into work through programmes like Parents, Childcare and Employment to begin with, and then have gone on to access the offer. So, that's again a progression. So, I think we are seeing signs that people are moving on, have got more ability to be flexible in the work that they're doing, but I hope that when we look at it again, we will be able to see people actually moving into work because of having the access to childcare.Dawn Bowden AM: Okay. Before--Lynne Neagle AM: Are you going to move on Sian's got a supplementary.Sian Gwenllian AM: Just a question on funding for the childcare offer. If you foresee that there's going to be more people going to be taking up that offer through the fact that you're marketing it more, what if the same situation arises that has happened on Anglesey The take-up has been very good there, but the money that the Welsh Government has been allocating to Anglesey doesn't match that. What if it happens in every local authority right across Wales Are you confident there's going to be plenty of money available to respond to that demandJulie Morgan AM: Based on the current levels of take-up and looking at the rates of increase each month, we expect to spend in the region of opposed to an add-on later onNicola Edwards: You're quite right. Most people coming through the education system will have some awareness of Welsh although I think it's probably important to remember we do also employ people from outside of wales.Suzy Davies AM: Yes, but the majority, being realistic.Nicola Edwards: But they don't necessarily have Welsh that is appropriate. They've got Welsh that they've developed in school. It's not necessarily appropriate for then teaching that language to children, who may be coming from families who don't use Welsh at home. So, that might be the first interaction that child has with the language. So, there's a lot of that in terms of child development and how you develop children bilingually, particularly if they're coming from English-medium homes, and reinforcing the language in language choices. There will also be some people who are, perhaps--we see this quite a lot in the office--quite confident in terms of speaking Welsh but less so in terms of some of the paperwork, the reporting, the writing and the interacting with parents more officially, which we need to think about as well. But it is mainly about getting people to a point where they can transmit that language onwards in a confident and meaningful way.Suzy Davies AM: Okay. And it's ingrained in the early years training.Nicola Edwards: Yes.Suzy Davies AM: Okay. That's fine. Thank you for that. Thank you, Chair.Lynne Neagle AM: Just before we move on, you said that 29 per cent of the take-up of the childcare offer is either through Welsh or is bilingual. Have you got any figures about how many children are accessing it in Welsh onlyNicola Edwards: We will have. It becomes--. With the way we do it, it's because of the way that the setting defines their language category, and PS50 million to PS55 million in this financial year. Our published plans already include the provision of PS40 million, and we're absolutely committed to making available the total funding that is needed to deliver on the offer. It is fantastic to see the offer being so well received on Ynys Mon, recognising, as Janet said earlier, it is demand led. We are managing it within the normal budgetary process. Local authorities will get the full funding that is needed. It's this year now that the big increase has happened; the previous two years--Sian Gwenllian AM: So, local authorities won't have to find the extra money out of their own pots.Julie Morgan AM: No, absolutely not. This is funded by the Welsh Government.Sian Gwenllian AM: Yes. You can assure them.Lynne Neagle AM: Dawn.Dawn Bowden AM: Thank you, Chair. You've already alluded to this in answer to Janet earlier on, about extending the childcare offer to those in training and education. You also talk about'on the cusp'of returning to work. So, I'm not quite sure what'on the cusp'of returning to work is, but from the committee's point of view, we're very pleased that you've reached that conclusion, because it was one of the recommendations that we had following the scrutiny of the Bill. So, can you say a little more about that, bearing in mind that I'm also conscious that you've told Hefin you're going to be making an announcement shortly So you may not be able to say too much. But a little bit more about the inclusion of parents in training and education, what'on the cusp of returning to work'is--what that means from your perspective--and how you've arrived at that decision now, six months into the programme. What is it that's made you move towards that conclusionJulie Morgan AM: Well,

What did Julie Morgan recommend to do when discussing the demand of Welsh language skills and why

Julie Morgan recommended to believe the demand was very important, and to establish a specific programme to develop Welsh language skills in childcare and played workforce with the National Centre for Learning Welsh to develop workplace Welsh language skills across the sector. And also she agreed on Nicola Edwards's idea that they should have a stakeholder group where they had brought together a variety of people with an interest in the early years, childcare and play sectors.

show, however, was that 94 per cent of respondents said that they were already using formal childcare before the offer came into place. A couple of things, really: are you surprised at that, and is that likely to inform the way that you develop the offer in the futureJulie Morgan AM: No, I'm not surprised at all. When it started off, it was only available in seven local authorities. In terms of how the families found out that it was available, they found it out through the childcare providers, where they already had their children there. So it was absolutely what we would have expected, and that will continue. But, of course, we were not able to fully advertise the childcare offer until it was available in all the local authorities, which was last April. So we are planning, this autumn, quite a big push now to try to make it available to everybody--so everybody knows about it. So, no, this is the pattern we would have expected, and I think anybody who's involved in starting up something in childcare will know you have to wait a number of years before you actually see it being fully taken up.Dawn Bowden AM: I guess the question that it raises in my mind is: does this mean that, actually, it hasn't been an incentive to get somebody back into work, because they were already in work and already had childcare provision What you've done is you've directed money to people who were already spending that money anyway. So it hasn't been a move towards getting people into work because they couldn't afford childcare.Julie Morgan AM: Well I think that that is something that we are moving towards, because the take-up of the offer is actually increasing each month, which is why I PS50 million to PS55 million in this financial year. Our published plans already include the provision of PS40 million, and we're absolutely committed to making available the total funding that is needed to deliver on the offer. It is fantastic to see the offer being so well received on Ynys Mon, recognising, as Janet said earlier, it is demand led. We are managing it within the normal budgetary process. Local authorities will get the full funding that is needed. It's this year now that the big increase has happened; the previous two years--Sian Gwenllian AM: So, local authorities won't have to find the extra money out of their own pots.Julie Morgan AM: No, absolutely not. This is funded by the Welsh Government.Sian Gwenllian AM: Yes. You can assure them.Lynne Neagle AM: Dawn.Dawn Bowden AM: Thank you, Chair. You've already alluded to this in answer to Janet earlier on, about extending the childcare offer to those in training and education. You also talk about'on the cusp'of returning to work. So, I'm not quite sure what'on the cusp'of returning to work is, but from the committee's point of view, we're very pleased that you've reached that conclusion, because it was one of the recommendations that we had following the scrutiny of the Bill. So, can you say a little more about that, bearing in mind that I'm also conscious that you've told Hefin you're going to be making an announcement shortly So you may not be able to say too much. But a little bit more about the inclusion of parents in training and education, what'on the cusp of returning to work'is--what that means from your perspective--and how you've arrived at that decision now, six months into the programme. What is it that's made you move towards that conclusionJulie Morgan AM: Well, Suzy, then Sian. Sorry, Dawn.Suzy Davies AM: Just on the cost element, because if you do roll out this programme, obviously, on the back of evidence through a review, it is going to cost extra money. Early years is one of the eight priority areas for Government. There are fairly generous Barnett consequentials coming from the comprehensive spending review and announcements on schools from the UK Government, and while I accept that you've only got annual commitments there, they're still substantial. How much money have you managed to secure for early years from the most recent announcement, and when have you planned to actually use that, maybe for some of this workJulie Morgan AM: Have you got some information on thatNicola Edwards: The budget process is ongoing internally, so I think'secured'is probably a slightly premature phrase.Suzy Davies AM: Am I allowed to ask instead how much you've asked for, then All I'm after is some reassurance that you will be getting some of this money, and as it is one of the eight priorities, certainly we would expect to see you getting a substantial amount of money for early years.Julie Morgan AM: As one of the Government's priorities, we would expect to get any money that came as a result of any Barnett consequentials.Suzy Davies AM: Okay. And it will be in the draft budget that we know for sure if it is successful.Julie Morgan AM: It's all in the process--Lynne Neagle AM: And the committee will want to look very carefully at that, obviously.Julie Morgan AM: It's in the process at the moment.Suzy Davies AM: There we are. Just giving you a good warning.Lynne Neagle AM: Sian.Sian Gwenllian AM: How much would it cost to move to a child-centred approach, which means that every child would be able to on that.Jo-Anne Daniels: The only thing I'd add is that--and, again, I think the Minister has referred to this--the costs that HMRC presented us with at the end of the discovery phase were significantly higher than the costs that had initially been outlined and that we outlined to the committee in the regulatory impact assessment. So, our conclusion is that we can deliver a cheaper system and a system that has the flexibility that the Deputy Minister has referred to by working with local authorities rather than HMRC. So, there is an important issue around value for money as well and making sure that the investment that we're making into developing the national system is one that--that, in a sense, that investment stays in Wales. So, obviously, the money that we're paying over to HMRC to run the system would be supporting HMRC and their employees wherever they may be based, many of them not based in Wales; investment in local authorities to administer the system means that we're retaining more of that investment here.Sian Gwenllian AM: Well, I congratulate you on persuading local government and WLGA to change their minds, because they actually told this committee that they favoured the HMRC option--and this is only going back a few months--because it will remove--and this is quoting them--'it will remove the administrative burden of receiving applications and checking eligibility from local authorities'-- blah, blah, blah, blah. So, they've obviously changed their minds as well, which is, you know--. I congratulate you on that, but it does present us as a committee with a little bit of a problem, really, because, if we're told one thing a few months ago and then we're told something completely different today, you know, evidence--we have to go on evidence that we've heard, and the And there were some issues when we got into the detail of the standards that the Welsh Ministers are required to deliver to that caused some concerns in terms of how HMRC were going to do it, particularly in terms of the multiple IT systems that go into building up the childcare services. So, for example, there are a number of what are called'special characters'in the Welsh alphabet, such as the to bach, for example. The HMRC IT system has some issues with that.Sian Gwenllian AM: Yes, well, with due respect, the to bach has always been there--Nicola Edwards: Oh, yes, I completely agree. Unfortunately, however--Sian Gwenllian AM: --and HMRC would have been able to tell you, really early on, you would have thought, that it was--. I don't really want to go into it, because I think we've got to the crux of why HMRC was dropped. I think it's been dropped because Julie feels that the offer needs to be more flexible, and I can understand why you would say that.Julie Morgan AM: If we bring in training and education, for example, we wouldn't be able to do that via the HMRC, it would have to be done by the local authorities. Foster parents have to be done via the local authorities. Any people of immigration status of no resource from public funds, that would have to be done via the local authorities. And with the local authorities also wanting to do it--. I mean, there are other things with using HMRC--if any changes were made with the English offer, for example, because this would be delivered via HMRC with the English offer, that would cause difficulties for the Welsh offer. So, we wanted something more flexible. I don't know if there's anything more you want to add

Summarize the discussion about the issues with HMRC.

Sian Gwenllian pointed out that the issues with HMRC had come to light that had made the team suspended the programme for the HMRC would have put limits on that. Julie Morgan answered that in terms of the Welsh language standards that the Minister had to use, there would be some difficulties in them doing it. For instance this would be delivered via HMRC with the English offer, which would cause difficulties for the Welsh offer. So, they wanted something more flexible. Nicola Edwards also agreed that the technical issues with HMRC for HMRC did provide a bilingual service at the moment for their customers in line with their Welsh language scheme. Jo-Anne Daniels finally came to the conclusion that they could deliver a cheaper system with flexibility that the Deputy Minister had referred to by working with local authorities rather than HMRC.

that's how we collect it. We do go down to individual child level, although it's anonymised, data collection on a termly basis. So I'll have a look and see if we can send you through the last term.Lynne Neagle AM: Maybe if the committee could have a note, that would be really useful.Nicola Edwards: Yes, that's fine.Lynne Neagle AM: We've got some questions now on childcare from Dawn Bowden.Dawn Bowden AM: Thank you, Chair. Deputy Minister, the evaluation of the childcare offer, when it was published last year, said that there was very little evidence currently available to determine what its impact was. You're going to be producing a second evaluation in November this year; do you expect to see some indications now of the impactJulie Morgan AM: Well, the evaluation of the first year of the childcare offer was very limited, because the childcare offer wasn't available throughout the whole of Wales. And it was a very early implementation phase. So, obviously it takes time to grow. And the evaluation for year 2, I think, will also show a limited impact for the same reasons. The offer became available across the whole of Wales only last April. So we've only got since last April that it's actually been fully available. And the parental survey was released to parents in June 2019, therefore any impact on parents in the authorities coming on board in the second year will also be negligible. So, it's from the next one, however, we hope that we will get more information.Dawn Bowden AM: So you think, by the time we get to November 2020, you might have a better picture.Julie Morgan AM: The evaluation will be more meaningful, we think, then, yes.Dawn Bowden AM: Okay. I take that point. What the first year's evaluation did PS50 million to PS55 million in this financial year. Our published plans already include the provision of PS40 million, and we're absolutely committed to making available the total funding that is needed to deliver on the offer. It is fantastic to see the offer being so well received on Ynys Mon, recognising, as Janet said earlier, it is demand led. We are managing it within the normal budgetary process. Local authorities will get the full funding that is needed. It's this year now that the big increase has happened; the previous two years--Sian Gwenllian AM: So, local authorities won't have to find the extra money out of their own pots.Julie Morgan AM: No, absolutely not. This is funded by the Welsh Government.Sian Gwenllian AM: Yes. You can assure them.Lynne Neagle AM: Dawn.Dawn Bowden AM: Thank you, Chair. You've already alluded to this in answer to Janet earlier on, about extending the childcare offer to those in training and education. You also talk about'on the cusp'of returning to work. So, I'm not quite sure what'on the cusp'of returning to work is, but from the committee's point of view, we're very pleased that you've reached that conclusion, because it was one of the recommendations that we had following the scrutiny of the Bill. So, can you say a little more about that, bearing in mind that I'm also conscious that you've told Hefin you're going to be making an announcement shortly So you may not be able to say too much. But a little bit more about the inclusion of parents in training and education, what'on the cusp of returning to work'is--what that means from your perspective--and how you've arrived at that decision now, six months into the programme. What is it that's made you move towards that conclusionJulie Morgan AM: Well, Suzy, then Sian. Sorry, Dawn.Suzy Davies AM: Just on the cost element, because if you do roll out this programme, obviously, on the back of evidence through a review, it is going to cost extra money. Early years is one of the eight priority areas for Government. There are fairly generous Barnett consequentials coming from the comprehensive spending review and announcements on schools from the UK Government, and while I accept that you've only got annual commitments there, they're still substantial. How much money have you managed to secure for early years from the most recent announcement, and when have you planned to actually use that, maybe for some of this workJulie Morgan AM: Have you got some information on thatNicola Edwards: The budget process is ongoing internally, so I think'secured'is probably a slightly premature phrase.Suzy Davies AM: Am I allowed to ask instead how much you've asked for, then All I'm after is some reassurance that you will be getting some of this money, and as it is one of the eight priorities, certainly we would expect to see you getting a substantial amount of money for early years.Julie Morgan AM: As one of the Government's priorities, we would expect to get any money that came as a result of any Barnett consequentials.Suzy Davies AM: Okay. And it will be in the draft budget that we know for sure if it is successful.Julie Morgan AM: It's all in the process--Lynne Neagle AM: And the committee will want to look very carefully at that, obviously.Julie Morgan AM: It's in the process at the moment.Suzy Davies AM: There we are. Just giving you a good warning.Lynne Neagle AM: Sian.Sian Gwenllian AM: How much would it cost to move to a child-centred approach, which means that every child would be able to on that.Jo-Anne Daniels: The only thing I'd add is that--and, again, I think the Minister has referred to this--the costs that HMRC presented us with at the end of the discovery phase were significantly higher than the costs that had initially been outlined and that we outlined to the committee in the regulatory impact assessment. So, our conclusion is that we can deliver a cheaper system and a system that has the flexibility that the Deputy Minister has referred to by working with local authorities rather than HMRC. So, there is an important issue around value for money as well and making sure that the investment that we're making into developing the national system is one that--that, in a sense, that investment stays in Wales. So, obviously, the money that we're paying over to HMRC to run the system would be supporting HMRC and their employees wherever they may be based, many of them not based in Wales; investment in local authorities to administer the system means that we're retaining more of that investment here.Sian Gwenllian AM: Well, I congratulate you on persuading local government and WLGA to change their minds, because they actually told this committee that they favoured the HMRC option--and this is only going back a few months--because it will remove--and this is quoting them--'it will remove the administrative burden of receiving applications and checking eligibility from local authorities'-- blah, blah, blah, blah. So, they've obviously changed their minds as well, which is, you know--. I congratulate you on that, but it does present us as a committee with a little bit of a problem, really, because, if we're told one thing a few months ago and then we're told something completely different today, you know, evidence--we have to go on evidence that we've heard, and the show, however, was that 94 per cent of respondents said that they were already using formal childcare before the offer came into place. A couple of things, really: are you surprised at that, and is that likely to inform the way that you develop the offer in the futureJulie Morgan AM: No, I'm not surprised at all. When it started off, it was only available in seven local authorities. In terms of how the families found out that it was available, they found it out through the childcare providers, where they already had their children there. So it was absolutely what we would have expected, and that will continue. But, of course, we were not able to fully advertise the childcare offer until it was available in all the local authorities, which was last April. So we are planning, this autumn, quite a big push now to try to make it available to everybody--so everybody knows about it. So, no, this is the pattern we would have expected, and I think anybody who's involved in starting up something in childcare will know you have to wait a number of years before you actually see it being fully taken up.Dawn Bowden AM: I guess the question that it raises in my mind is: does this mean that, actually, it hasn't been an incentive to get somebody back into work, because they were already in work and already had childcare provision What you've done is you've directed money to people who were already spending that money anyway. So it hasn't been a move towards getting people into work because they couldn't afford childcare.Julie Morgan AM: Well I think that that is something that we are moving towards, because the take-up of the offer is actually increasing each month, which is why I

What did Julie Morgan think of the issues with HMRC

Julie Morgan thought that in terms of the Welsh language standards that the Minister had to use, there would be some difficulties in them doing the programme. For instance this would be delivered via HMRC with the English offer, which would cause difficulties for the Welsh offer. So, they wanted something more flexible.

that's how we collect it. We do go down to individual child level, although it's anonymised, data collection on a termly basis. So I'll have a look and see if we can send you through the last term.Lynne Neagle AM: Maybe if the committee could have a note, that would be really useful.Nicola Edwards: Yes, that's fine.Lynne Neagle AM: We've got some questions now on childcare from Dawn Bowden.Dawn Bowden AM: Thank you, Chair. Deputy Minister, the evaluation of the childcare offer, when it was published last year, said that there was very little evidence currently available to determine what its impact was. You're going to be producing a second evaluation in November this year; do you expect to see some indications now of the impactJulie Morgan AM: Well, the evaluation of the first year of the childcare offer was very limited, because the childcare offer wasn't available throughout the whole of Wales. And it was a very early implementation phase. So, obviously it takes time to grow. And the evaluation for year 2, I think, will also show a limited impact for the same reasons. The offer became available across the whole of Wales only last April. So we've only got since last April that it's actually been fully available. And the parental survey was released to parents in June 2019, therefore any impact on parents in the authorities coming on board in the second year will also be negligible. So, it's from the next one, however, we hope that we will get more information.Dawn Bowden AM: So you think, by the time we get to November 2020, you might have a better picture.Julie Morgan AM: The evaluation will be more meaningful, we think, then, yes.Dawn Bowden AM: Okay. I take that point. What the first year's evaluation did show, however, was that 94 per cent of respondents said that they were already using formal childcare before the offer came into place. A couple of things, really: are you surprised at that, and is that likely to inform the way that you develop the offer in the futureJulie Morgan AM: No, I'm not surprised at all. When it started off, it was only available in seven local authorities. In terms of how the families found out that it was available, they found it out through the childcare providers, where they already had their children there. So it was absolutely what we would have expected, and that will continue. But, of course, we were not able to fully advertise the childcare offer until it was available in all the local authorities, which was last April. So we are planning, this autumn, quite a big push now to try to make it available to everybody--so everybody knows about it. So, no, this is the pattern we would have expected, and I think anybody who's involved in starting up something in childcare will know you have to wait a number of years before you actually see it being fully taken up.Dawn Bowden AM: I guess the question that it raises in my mind is: does this mean that, actually, it hasn't been an incentive to get somebody back into work, because they were already in work and already had childcare provision What you've done is you've directed money to people who were already spending that money anyway. So it hasn't been a move towards getting people into work because they couldn't afford childcare.Julie Morgan AM: Well I think that that is something that we are moving towards, because the take-up of the offer is actually increasing each month, which is why I Suzy, then Sian. Sorry, Dawn.Suzy Davies AM: Just on the cost element, because if you do roll out this programme, obviously, on the back of evidence through a review, it is going to cost extra money. Early years is one of the eight priority areas for Government. There are fairly generous Barnett consequentials coming from the comprehensive spending review and announcements on schools from the UK Government, and while I accept that you've only got annual commitments there, they're still substantial. How much money have you managed to secure for early years from the most recent announcement, and when have you planned to actually use that, maybe for some of this workJulie Morgan AM: Have you got some information on thatNicola Edwards: The budget process is ongoing internally, so I think'secured'is probably a slightly premature phrase.Suzy Davies AM: Am I allowed to ask instead how much you've asked for, then All I'm after is some reassurance that you will be getting some of this money, and as it is one of the eight priorities, certainly we would expect to see you getting a substantial amount of money for early years.Julie Morgan AM: As one of the Government's priorities, we would expect to get any money that came as a result of any Barnett consequentials.Suzy Davies AM: Okay. And it will be in the draft budget that we know for sure if it is successful.Julie Morgan AM: It's all in the process--Lynne Neagle AM: And the committee will want to look very carefully at that, obviously.Julie Morgan AM: It's in the process at the moment.Suzy Davies AM: There we are. Just giving you a good warning.Lynne Neagle AM: Sian.Sian Gwenllian AM: How much would it cost to move to a child-centred approach, which means that every child would be able to PS50 million to PS55 million in this financial year. Our published plans already include the provision of PS40 million, and we're absolutely committed to making available the total funding that is needed to deliver on the offer. It is fantastic to see the offer being so well received on Ynys Mon, recognising, as Janet said earlier, it is demand led. We are managing it within the normal budgetary process. Local authorities will get the full funding that is needed. It's this year now that the big increase has happened; the previous two years--Sian Gwenllian AM: So, local authorities won't have to find the extra money out of their own pots.Julie Morgan AM: No, absolutely not. This is funded by the Welsh Government.Sian Gwenllian AM: Yes. You can assure them.Lynne Neagle AM: Dawn.Dawn Bowden AM: Thank you, Chair. You've already alluded to this in answer to Janet earlier on, about extending the childcare offer to those in training and education. You also talk about'on the cusp'of returning to work. So, I'm not quite sure what'on the cusp'of returning to work is, but from the committee's point of view, we're very pleased that you've reached that conclusion, because it was one of the recommendations that we had following the scrutiny of the Bill. So, can you say a little more about that, bearing in mind that I'm also conscious that you've told Hefin you're going to be making an announcement shortly So you may not be able to say too much. But a little bit more about the inclusion of parents in training and education, what'on the cusp of returning to work'is--what that means from your perspective--and how you've arrived at that decision now, six months into the programme. What is it that's made you move towards that conclusionJulie Morgan AM: Well, And there were some issues when we got into the detail of the standards that the Welsh Ministers are required to deliver to that caused some concerns in terms of how HMRC were going to do it, particularly in terms of the multiple IT systems that go into building up the childcare services. So, for example, there are a number of what are called'special characters'in the Welsh alphabet, such as the to bach, for example. The HMRC IT system has some issues with that.Sian Gwenllian AM: Yes, well, with due respect, the to bach has always been there--Nicola Edwards: Oh, yes, I completely agree. Unfortunately, however--Sian Gwenllian AM: --and HMRC would have been able to tell you, really early on, you would have thought, that it was--. I don't really want to go into it, because I think we've got to the crux of why HMRC was dropped. I think it's been dropped because Julie feels that the offer needs to be more flexible, and I can understand why you would say that.Julie Morgan AM: If we bring in training and education, for example, we wouldn't be able to do that via the HMRC, it would have to be done by the local authorities. Foster parents have to be done via the local authorities. Any people of immigration status of no resource from public funds, that would have to be done via the local authorities. And with the local authorities also wanting to do it--. I mean, there are other things with using HMRC--if any changes were made with the English offer, for example, because this would be delivered via HMRC with the English offer, that would cause difficulties for the Welsh offer. So, we wanted something more flexible. I don't know if there's anything more you want to add

What's the decision of the discussion about the issues with HMRC

Jo-Anne Daniels finally came to the conclusion that they could deliver a cheaper system with flexibility that the Deputy Minister had referred to by working with local authorities rather than HMRC. At the moment, the extra cost would be about PS2. 5 million, which according to their initial estimate suggested that it would be less than the cost proposed by HMRC.

that's how we collect it. We do go down to individual child level, although it's anonymised, data collection on a termly basis. So I'll have a look and see if we can send you through the last term.Lynne Neagle AM: Maybe if the committee could have a note, that would be really useful.Nicola Edwards: Yes, that's fine.Lynne Neagle AM: We've got some questions now on childcare from Dawn Bowden.Dawn Bowden AM: Thank you, Chair. Deputy Minister, the evaluation of the childcare offer, when it was published last year, said that there was very little evidence currently available to determine what its impact was. You're going to be producing a second evaluation in November this year; do you expect to see some indications now of the impactJulie Morgan AM: Well, the evaluation of the first year of the childcare offer was very limited, because the childcare offer wasn't available throughout the whole of Wales. And it was a very early implementation phase. So, obviously it takes time to grow. And the evaluation for year 2, I think, will also show a limited impact for the same reasons. The offer became available across the whole of Wales only last April. So we've only got since last April that it's actually been fully available. And the parental survey was released to parents in June 2019, therefore any impact on parents in the authorities coming on board in the second year will also be negligible. So, it's from the next one, however, we hope that we will get more information.Dawn Bowden AM: So you think, by the time we get to November 2020, you might have a better picture.Julie Morgan AM: The evaluation will be more meaningful, we think, then, yes.Dawn Bowden AM: Okay. I take that point. What the first year's evaluation did PS50 million to PS55 million in this financial year. Our published plans already include the provision of PS40 million, and we're absolutely committed to making available the total funding that is needed to deliver on the offer. It is fantastic to see the offer being so well received on Ynys Mon, recognising, as Janet said earlier, it is demand led. We are managing it within the normal budgetary process. Local authorities will get the full funding that is needed. It's this year now that the big increase has happened; the previous two years--Sian Gwenllian AM: So, local authorities won't have to find the extra money out of their own pots.Julie Morgan AM: No, absolutely not. This is funded by the Welsh Government.Sian Gwenllian AM: Yes. You can assure them.Lynne Neagle AM: Dawn.Dawn Bowden AM: Thank you, Chair. You've already alluded to this in answer to Janet earlier on, about extending the childcare offer to those in training and education. You also talk about'on the cusp'of returning to work. So, I'm not quite sure what'on the cusp'of returning to work is, but from the committee's point of view, we're very pleased that you've reached that conclusion, because it was one of the recommendations that we had following the scrutiny of the Bill. So, can you say a little more about that, bearing in mind that I'm also conscious that you've told Hefin you're going to be making an announcement shortly So you may not be able to say too much. But a little bit more about the inclusion of parents in training and education, what'on the cusp of returning to work'is--what that means from your perspective--and how you've arrived at that decision now, six months into the programme. What is it that's made you move towards that conclusionJulie Morgan AM: Well, Suzy, then Sian. Sorry, Dawn.Suzy Davies AM: Just on the cost element, because if you do roll out this programme, obviously, on the back of evidence through a review, it is going to cost extra money. Early years is one of the eight priority areas for Government. There are fairly generous Barnett consequentials coming from the comprehensive spending review and announcements on schools from the UK Government, and while I accept that you've only got annual commitments there, they're still substantial. How much money have you managed to secure for early years from the most recent announcement, and when have you planned to actually use that, maybe for some of this workJulie Morgan AM: Have you got some information on thatNicola Edwards: The budget process is ongoing internally, so I think'secured'is probably a slightly premature phrase.Suzy Davies AM: Am I allowed to ask instead how much you've asked for, then All I'm after is some reassurance that you will be getting some of this money, and as it is one of the eight priorities, certainly we would expect to see you getting a substantial amount of money for early years.Julie Morgan AM: As one of the Government's priorities, we would expect to get any money that came as a result of any Barnett consequentials.Suzy Davies AM: Okay. And it will be in the draft budget that we know for sure if it is successful.Julie Morgan AM: It's all in the process--Lynne Neagle AM: And the committee will want to look very carefully at that, obviously.Julie Morgan AM: It's in the process at the moment.Suzy Davies AM: There we are. Just giving you a good warning.Lynne Neagle AM: Sian.Sian Gwenllian AM: How much would it cost to move to a child-centred approach, which means that every child would be able to on that.Jo-Anne Daniels: The only thing I'd add is that--and, again, I think the Minister has referred to this--the costs that HMRC presented us with at the end of the discovery phase were significantly higher than the costs that had initially been outlined and that we outlined to the committee in the regulatory impact assessment. So, our conclusion is that we can deliver a cheaper system and a system that has the flexibility that the Deputy Minister has referred to by working with local authorities rather than HMRC. So, there is an important issue around value for money as well and making sure that the investment that we're making into developing the national system is one that--that, in a sense, that investment stays in Wales. So, obviously, the money that we're paying over to HMRC to run the system would be supporting HMRC and their employees wherever they may be based, many of them not based in Wales; investment in local authorities to administer the system means that we're retaining more of that investment here.Sian Gwenllian AM: Well, I congratulate you on persuading local government and WLGA to change their minds, because they actually told this committee that they favoured the HMRC option--and this is only going back a few months--because it will remove--and this is quoting them--'it will remove the administrative burden of receiving applications and checking eligibility from local authorities'-- blah, blah, blah, blah. So, they've obviously changed their minds as well, which is, you know--. I congratulate you on that, but it does present us as a committee with a little bit of a problem, really, because, if we're told one thing a few months ago and then we're told something completely different today, you know, evidence--we have to go on evidence that we've heard, and the a much more consistent and standardised set of visits and engagements with parents that cover a lot of these areas. In addition, I'd also add that when parents use the childcare in Flying Start, or childcare generally outside of Flying Start areas, there is often a lot of working between the childcare setting and the parent over parenting--again, managing a child's behaviour, managing any issues that the childcare worker thinks are emerging in terms of whether it's eating or, again, toileting. So, parenting courses are important, but it's really essential that we see those in the broader context of the different ways in which lots of professionals interact with parents, providing them with advice, guidance and support, and actually what works for parents in terms of how they take on board some of that advice and that help. Sometimes a formal course is quite off-putting for parents, but the sort of quiet word, the top tips, the advice that a friendly professional gives can be very, very impactful.Suzy Davies AM: That's a really helpful answer. It does raise, unfortunately, another question about whether a health visitor in those circumstances might find themselves in a difficult position if they're dealing with a parent who has smacked a child, but we'll leave that for Stage 3.Julie Morgan AM: We'll be dealing with that, I'm sure.Suzy Davies AM: But thank you; that was a helpful answer. Thank you, Chair.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay. Thank you. Are there any other questions from Members No. Okay. Well, can I thank the Minister and the officials for attending this morning As usual, you'll be sent a transcript to check for accuracy following the meeting, but thank you again for your attendance. Thank you.Julie Morgan AM: Thank you very much.Lynne Neagle AM: Okay. Item 4 is papers to note. There's just one today: the letter from the WLGA regarding the Childcare Funding (Wales) Act 2019 in response to our letter asking about the change in approach. Item 5 then. Can I propose, in accordance with Standing Order 17. 42, that the committee resolves to meet in private for the remainder of the meeting Are Members content Thank you.

Summarize the whole meeting.

The meeting contains discussions of the main focus on early childhood education and care programmes. The team were working with local authorities and healthboards to see how to work together and simplify the Welsh Government's approach, looking forward to encouraging the development of the foundation phase in non-maintained settings. Addressing big differences in the amount of early childhood education in different parts of Wales, the team answered the needs of the families and the children in certain areas. Then the meeting discussed the demand-driven approach to the childcare market, asserting there was no evidence of cutting on the foundation. Then the team answered the question about the demand of Welsh language skills by obviously differing degrees and hiring workers of different backgrounds. When talking about the competition with existing formal childcare, the team believed it was expected. Then the team alleged they would do more investment and reviews on the programme, and discussed how to tackle the technical issues with HMRC. Next the extra cost was not yet defined, the price tag was announced to be PS2. 5million. Finally, the meeting discussed the necessity of adding eligibility checks to the beginning of the programme, and the details on the sample" Flying Start''programme.

Postdoc B: Alright.Professor C: So, uh {disfmarker}Grad F: Um, so I wanted to discuss digits briefly, but that won't take too long.Professor C: Oh good. Right. OK, agenda items, Uh, we have digits, What else we gotPhD A: New version of the presegmentation.Professor C: New version of presegmentation.Postdoc B: Um, do we wanna say something about the, an update of the, uh, transcriptPhD G: Yeah, why don't you summarize the {disfmarker}Professor C: Update on transcripts.PhD G: And I guess that includes some {disfmarker} the filtering for the, the ASI refs, too.Postdoc B: Mmm.Professor C: Filtering for whatPhD G: For the references that we need to go from the {disfmarker} the {pause} fancy transcripts to the sort of {nonvocalsound} brain - dead.Postdoc B: It'll {disfmarker} it'll be {disfmarker} basically it'll be a re - cap of a meeting that we had jointly this morning.Professor C: Uh - huh.PhD G: With Don, as well.Postdoc B: Mm - hmm.Professor C: Got it. Anything else more pressing than those things So {disfmarker} So, why don't we just do those. You said yours was brief, so {disfmarker}Grad F: OK. OK well, the, w uh as you can see from the numbers on the digits we're almost done. The digits goes up to {pause} about four thousand. Um, and so, uh, we probably will be done with the TI - digits in, um, another couple weeks. um, depending on how many we read each time. So there were a bunch that we skipped. You know, someone fills out the form and then they're not at the meeting and so it's blank. Um, but those are almost all filled in as well. And so, once we're {disfmarker} it's done it would be very nice to train up a recognizer and actually start working with this data.PhD D: So we'll have a corpus that's the size of TI - digitsGrad F: And so {disfmarker} One particular test set of TI - digits.PhD D: Test set, OK.Grad F: So, I {disfmarker} I extracted, Ther - there was a file sitting around which people have used here as a test set. It had been randomized and so onPhD D:Grad F: and that's just what I used to generate the order. of these particular ones.PhD D: Oh! Great. Great.Professor C: So, I'm impressed by what we could do, Is take the standard training set for TI - digits, train up with whatever, you know, great features we think we have, uh for instance, and then test on uh this test set.Grad F: Um {disfmarker}Professor C: And presumably uh it should do reasonably well on that, and then, presumably, we should go to the distant mike, and it should do poorly.PhD D: Yeah.Professor C: And then we should get really smart over the next year or two, and it {disfmarker} that should get better.Grad F: Right. And inc increase it by one or two percent, yeah.Professor C: Yeah, {vocalsound} Yeah.Grad F: Um, but, in order to do that we need to extract out the actual digits.Professor C: Right.Grad F: Um, so that {disfmarker} the reason it's not just a transcript is that there're false starts, and misreads, and miscues and things like that. And so I have a set of scripts and X Waves where you just select the portion, hit R, um, it tells you what the next one should be, and you just look for that. You know, so it {disfmarker} it'll put on the screen," The next set is six nine, nine two two" . And you find that, and, hit the key and it records it in a file in a particular format.Professor C: So is this {disfmarker}Grad F: And so the {disfmarker} the question is, should we have the transcribers do that or should we just do it Well, some of us. I've been do I've done, eight meetings, something like that, just by hand. Just myself, rather. So it will not take long. Um {disfmarker}Professor C: Uh, what {disfmarker} what do you thinkPostdoc B: My feeling is that we discussed this right before coffee and I think it's a {disfmarker} it's a fine idea partly because, um, it's not un unrelated to their present skill set, but it will add, for them, an extra dimension, it might be an interesting break for them. And also it is contributing to the, uh, c composition of the transcript cuz we can incorporate those numbers directly and it'll be a more complete transcript. So I'm {disfmarker} I think it's fine, that part.Grad F: There is {disfmarker} there is {disfmarker}Professor C: So you think it's fine to have the transcribers do itPostdoc B: Mm - hmm.Professor C: Yeah, OK.Grad F: There's one other small bit, which is just entering the information which at s which is at the top of this form, onto the computer, to go along with the {disfmarker} where the digits are recorded automatically.PhD D: Good.Professor C: Yeah.Grad F: And so it's just, you know, typing in name, times {disfmarker} time, date, and so on. Um, which again either they can do, but it is, you know, firing up an editor, or, again, I can do. Or someone else can do.Postdoc B: And, that, you know, I'm not, that {disfmarker} that one I'm not so sure if it's into the {disfmarker} the, things that, I, wanted to use the hours for, because the, the time that they'd uh things, but {disfmarker} but real {disfmarker} real situation,PhD D: Mm - hmm.Professor C: well," real" , Um, the {disfmarker} uh there's one microphone that's close, that they have as {disfmarker} as this sort of thing, close versus distant. Uh but in a car, instead of {disfmarker} instead of having a projector noise it's {disfmarker} it's car noise. Uh but it wasn't artificially added to get some {disfmarker} some artificial signal - to - noise ratio. It was just people driving around in a car. So, that's {disfmarker} that's an indication, uh that was with, many sites competing, and this was the very best score and so forth, so. More typical numbers likePhD D: Although the models weren't, that good, right I mean, the models are pretty crappyProfessor C: You're right. I think that we could have done better on the models, but the thing is that we got {disfmarker} this {disfmarker} this is the kind of typical number, for all of the, uh, uh, things in this task, all of the, um, languages. And so I {disfmarker} I think we'd probably {disfmarker} the models would be better in some than in others. Um, so, uh. Anyway, just an indication once you get into this kind of realm even if you're looking at connected digits it can be pretty hard.PhD D: Hmm.Postdoc B: Hmm. It's gonna be fun to see how we, compare at this. Very exciting. s @ @.Professor C: Yeah.PhD D: How did we do on the TI - digitsGrad F: Well the prosodics are so much different s it's gonna be, strange. I mean the prosodics are not the same as TI - digits, for example.Professor C: Yeah.Grad F: So I'm {disfmarker} I'm not sure how much of effect that will have.PhD D: H how do {disfmarker}PhD Jerry Feldman's meeting, no problem. And, then {disfmarker}PhD A: OK.PhD G: So they're really running out of, data, prett I mean that's good.Postdoc B: Mm - hmm. Uh, that first set.PhD G: Um, OK.Professor C: They're running out of data unless we s make the decision that we should go over and start, uh, transcribing the other set.PhD G: So {disfmarker}Professor C: There {disfmarker} the first {disfmarker} the first half.PhD A: Yeah.Postdoc B: And so I was in the process of like editing them but this is wonderful news.PhD A: OK.Professor C: Alright.Postdoc B: We funded the experiment with, uh {disfmarker} also we were thinking maybe applying that that to getting the, Yeah, that'll be, very useful to getting the overlaps to be more precise all the way through.Professor C: So this, blends nicely into the update on transcripts.Postdoc B: Yes, it does. So, um, {comment} um, Liz, and {disfmarker} and Don, and I met this morning, in the BARCO room, with the lecture hall,Professor C: OK.PhD G: Yeah, please. Go ahead. And this afternoon.Postdoc B: and this afternoon, it drifted into the afternoon, {comment} {vocalsound} uh, concerning this issue of, um, the, well there's basically the issue of the interplay between the transcript format and the processing that, they need to do for, the SRI recognizer. And, um, well, so, I mentioned the process that I'm going through with the data, so, you know, I get the data back from the transcri Well, s uh, metaphorically, get the data back from the transcriber, and then I, check for simple things like spelling errors and things like that. And, um, I'm going to be doing a more thorough editing, with respect to consistency of the conventions. But they're {disfmarker} they're generally very good. And, then, I run it through, uh,

Summarize what was said about the digits recordings

The group discussed the collection status for a set of connected digits recordings that are nearly complete and ready to be trained on a recognizer. Anticipated results were discussed in reference to results obtained for other digits corpora, i. e. Aurora and TI-digits.

Postdoc B: Alright.Professor C: So, uh {disfmarker}Grad F: Um, so I wanted to discuss digits briefly, but that won't take too long.Professor C: Oh good. Right. OK, agenda items, Uh, we have digits, What else we gotPhD A: New version of the presegmentation.Professor C: New version of presegmentation.Postdoc B: Um, do we wanna say something about the, an update of the, uh, transcriptPhD G: Yeah, why don't you summarize the {disfmarker}Professor C: Update on transcripts.PhD G: And I guess that includes some {disfmarker} the filtering for the, the ASI refs, too.Postdoc B: Mmm.Professor C: Filtering for whatPhD G: For the references that we need to go from the {disfmarker} the {pause} fancy transcripts to the sort of {nonvocalsound} brain - dead.Postdoc B: It'll {disfmarker} it'll be {disfmarker} basically it'll be a re - cap of a meeting that we had jointly this morning.Professor C: Uh - huh.PhD G: With Don, as well.Postdoc B: Mm - hmm.Professor C: Got it. Anything else more pressing than those things So {disfmarker} So, why don't we just do those. You said yours was brief, so {disfmarker}Grad F: OK. OK well, the, w uh as you can see from the numbers on the digits we're almost done. The digits goes up to {pause} about four thousand. Um, and so, uh, we probably will be done with the TI - digits in, um, another couple weeks. um, depending on how many we read each time. So there were a bunch that we skipped. You know, someone fills out the form and then they're not at the meeting and so it's blank. Um, but those are almost all filled in as well. And so, once we're {disfmarker} it's done it would be very nice to train up a recognizer and actually start working with this data.PhD D: Jerry Feldman's meeting, no problem. And, then {disfmarker}PhD A: OK.PhD G: So they're really running out of, data, prett I mean that's good.Postdoc B: Mm - hmm. Uh, that first set.PhD G: Um, OK.Professor C: They're running out of data unless we s make the decision that we should go over and start, uh, transcribing the other set.PhD G: So {disfmarker}Professor C: There {disfmarker} the first {disfmarker} the first half.PhD A: Yeah.Postdoc B: And so I was in the process of like editing them but this is wonderful news.PhD A: OK.Professor C: Alright.Postdoc B: We funded the experiment with, uh {disfmarker} also we were thinking maybe applying that that to getting the, Yeah, that'll be, very useful to getting the overlaps to be more precise all the way through.Professor C: So this, blends nicely into the update on transcripts.Postdoc B: Yes, it does. So, um, {comment} um, Liz, and {disfmarker} and Don, and I met this morning, in the BARCO room, with the lecture hall,Professor C: OK.PhD G: Yeah, please. Go ahead. And this afternoon.Postdoc B: and this afternoon, it drifted into the afternoon, {comment} {vocalsound} uh, concerning this issue of, um, the, well there's basically the issue of the interplay between the transcript format and the processing that, they need to do for, the SRI recognizer. And, um, well, so, I mentioned the process that I'm going through with the data, so, you know, I get the data back from the transcri Well, s uh, metaphorically, get the data back from the transcriber, and then I, check for simple things like spelling errors and things like that. And, um, I'm going to be doing a more thorough editing, with respect to consistency of the conventions. But they're {disfmarker} they're generally very good. And, then, I run it through, uh, file in a particular format.Professor C: So is this {disfmarker}Grad F: And so the {disfmarker} the question is, should we have the transcribers do that or should we just do it Well, some of us. I've been do I've done, eight meetings, something like that, just by hand. Just myself, rather. So it will not take long. Um {disfmarker}Professor C: Uh, what {disfmarker} what do you thinkPostdoc B: My feeling is that we discussed this right before coffee and I think it's a {disfmarker} it's a fine idea partly because, um, it's not un unrelated to their present skill set, but it will add, for them, an extra dimension, it might be an interesting break for them. And also it is contributing to the, uh, c composition of the transcript cuz we can incorporate those numbers directly and it'll be a more complete transcript. So I'm {disfmarker} I think it's fine, that part.Grad F: There is {disfmarker} there is {disfmarker}Professor C: So you think it's fine to have the transcribers do itPostdoc B: Mm - hmm.Professor C: Yeah, OK.Grad F: There's one other small bit, which is just entering the information which at s which is at the top of this form, onto the computer, to go along with the {disfmarker} where the digits are recorded automatically.PhD D: Good.Professor C: Yeah.Grad F: And so it's just, you know, typing in name, times {disfmarker} time, date, and so on. Um, which again either they can do, but it is, you know, firing up an editor, or, again, I can do. Or someone else can do.Postdoc B: And, that, you know, I'm not, that {disfmarker} that one I'm not so sure if it's into the {disfmarker} the, things that, I, wanted to use the hours for, because the, the time that they'd process, transcript.Postdoc B: Mm - hmm. And that doesn't {disfmarker} the amount of editing that it would require is not very much either. I'm just hoping that the units that are provided in that way, {nonvocalsound} will be sufficient cuz I would save a lot of, uh, time, dividing things.PhD G: Yeah, some of them are quite long. Just from {disfmarker} I dunno how long were {disfmarker} you did oneGrad E: I saw a couple, {vocalsound} around twenty seconds, and that was just without looking too hard for it, so, I would imagine that there might be some that are longer.PhD G: Right.Postdoc B: Well n One question, e w would that be a single speaker or is that multiple speakers overlappingGrad E: No. No, but if we're gonna segment it, like if there's one speaker in there, that says" OK" or something, right in the middle, it's gonna have a lot of dead time around it,PhD G: Right. It's not the {disfmarker} it's not the fact that we can't process a twenty second segment, it's the fact that, there's twenty seconds in which to place one word in the wrong placeGrad E: so it's not {disfmarker}Postdoc B: Yeah.Grad E: Yeah.PhD G: You know, if {disfmarker} if someone has a very short utterance there, and that's where, we, might wanna have this individual, you know, ha have your pre pre - process input.PhD A: Yep. Yeah. Sure.Postdoc B: That's very important.PhD A: I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I thought that perhaps the transcribers could start then from the {disfmarker} those mult multi - channel, uh, speech - nonspeech detections, if they would like to.PhD G: And I just don't know, I have to run it.Postdoc B: In {disfmarker} in doing the hand - markingPhD G: Right.PhD A: Yeah.Postdoc B: Yeah that's mean. It's like y it's {disfmarker} and so, um, I've {disfmarker} I've incorporated also convention, with that but that's easy to handle at the post editing phase, and I'll mention it to, transcribers for the next phase but that's OK. And then, a similar conv uh, convention for numbers. So if they say one - eighty - three versus one eight three. Um, and also I'll be, um, encoding, as I do my post - editing, the, things that are in curly brackets, which are clarificational material. And eh to incorporate, uh, keyword, at the beginning. So, it's gonna be either a gloss or it's gonna be a vocal sound like a, laugh or a cough, or, so forth. Or a non - vocal sound like a doors door - slam, and that can be easily done with a, you know, just a {disfmarker} one little additional thing in the, in the general format.PhD G: Yeah we j we just needed a way to, strip, you know, all the comments, all the things th the {disfmarker} that linguist wants but the recognizer can't do anything with. Um, but to keep things that we mapped to like reject models, or, you know, uh, mouth noise, or, cough. And then there's this interesting issue Jane brought up which I hadn't thought about before but I was, realizing as I went through the transcripts, that there are some noises like, um, well the {disfmarker} good example was an inbreath, where a transcriber working from, the mixed, signal, doesn't know whose breath it is,Grad F: Right.PhD G: and they've been assigning it to someone that may or may not be correct. And what we do is, if it's a breath sound, you know, a sound from the speaker, we map it, to, a noise

What was said about the transcriber pool

decision was also made to delegate transcribers with the task of labelling a subset of digits or Switchboard data for fine-grained acoustic-phonetic features. Speaker fe008 will run selected Meeting Recorder data through channelize and determine whether the resulting units are of a sufficient length.

I don't know what you call {pause} them. But not just fill pauses but all kinds of ways of {pause} interrupting {comment} and so forth.Grad F: Uh - huh.PhD G: And some of them are, {vocalsound} yeah," uh - huh" s, and" hmm" s, and," hmm!" " hmm" {comment}" OK" ," uh" {comment} Grunts, uh, that might be interesting.Postdoc B: He's got lip {disfmarker} {pause} lipsmacks.PhD G: In the meetings.Professor C: We should move on.Postdoc B: Yeah.Professor C: Uh, new version of, uh, presegmentationPhD A: Uh, oh yeah, um, {vocalsound} I worked a little bit on the {disfmarker} on the presegmentation to {disfmarker} to get another version which does channel - specific, uh, speech - nonspeech detection. And, what I did is I used some normalized features which, uh, look in into the {disfmarker} which is normalized energy, uh, energy normalized by the mean over the channels and by the, minimum over the, other. within each channel. And to {disfmarker} to, mm, to, yeah, to normalize also loudness and {disfmarker} and modified loudness and things and that those special features actually are in my feature vector.Grad F: Oh.PhD A: And, and, therefore to be able to, uh, somewhat distinguish between foreground and background speech in {disfmarker} in the different {disfmarker} in {disfmarker} each channel. And, eh, I tested it on {disfmarker} on three or four meetings and it seems to work, well yeah, fairly well, I {disfmarker} I would say. There are some problems with the lapel mike.Grad F: Of course.PhD A: Yeah. Uh, yeah.Grad F: Wow that's great.PhD A: And.Grad F: So I {disfmarker} I understand that's what you were saying about your problem with, minimum.PhD A: Yeah. And. Yeah, and {disfmarker} and I had {disfmarker} I had, uh, specific problems with.Grad F: I get it. So new use the channelize program to get it into the multi - channel format, OK. And {pause} the, what we discussed this morning, I would summarize as saying that, um, these units that result, in a {disfmarker} a particular channel and a particular timeband, at {disfmarker} at that level, um, vary in length. And, um, {nonvocalsound} their recognizer would prefer that the units not be overly long. But it's really an empirical question, whether the units we get at this point through, just that process I described might be sufficient for them. So, as a first pass through, a first chance without having to do a lot of hand - editing, what we're gonna do, is, I'll run it through channelize, give them those data after I've done the editing process and be sure it's clean. And I can do that, pretty quickly, with just, that minimal editing, without having to hand - break things.Professor C: Mm - hmm.Postdoc B: And then we'll see if the units that we're getting, uh, with the {disfmarker} at that level, are sufficient. And maybe they don't need to be further broken down. And if they do need to be further broken down then maybe it just be piece - wise, maybe it won't be the whole thing. So, that's {disfmarker} that's what we were discussing, this morning as far as I {disfmarker} Among {disfmarker}PhD G: Right.Postdoc B: also we discussed some adaptational things,PhD G: Then lots of {disfmarker}Postdoc B: so it's like,PhD G: Right.Postdoc B: uh {disfmarker} You know I hadn't, uh, incorporated, a convention explicitly to handle acronyms, for example, but if someone says, PZM it would be nice to have that be directly interpretable from, the transcript what they said,Professor C: Mm - hmm.Postdoc B: or Pi - uh Tcl {disfmarker} TCL I process, transcript.Postdoc B: Mm - hmm. And that doesn't {disfmarker} the amount of editing that it would require is not very much either. I'm just hoping that the units that are provided in that way, {nonvocalsound} will be sufficient cuz I would save a lot of, uh, time, dividing things.PhD G: Yeah, some of them are quite long. Just from {disfmarker} I dunno how long were {disfmarker} you did oneGrad E: I saw a couple, {vocalsound} around twenty seconds, and that was just without looking too hard for it, so, I would imagine that there might be some that are longer.PhD G: Right.Postdoc B: Well n One question, e w would that be a single speaker or is that multiple speakers overlappingGrad E: No. No, but if we're gonna segment it, like if there's one speaker in there, that says" OK" or something, right in the middle, it's gonna have a lot of dead time around it,PhD G: Right. It's not the {disfmarker} it's not the fact that we can't process a twenty second segment, it's the fact that, there's twenty seconds in which to place one word in the wrong placeGrad E: so it's not {disfmarker}Postdoc B: Yeah.Grad E: Yeah.PhD G: You know, if {disfmarker} if someone has a very short utterance there, and that's where, we, might wanna have this individual, you know, ha have your pre pre - process input.PhD A: Yep. Yeah. Sure.Postdoc B: That's very important.PhD A: I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I thought that perhaps the transcribers could start then from the {disfmarker} those mult multi - channel, uh, speech - nonspeech detections, if they would like to.PhD G: And I just don't know, I have to run it.Postdoc B: In {disfmarker} in doing the hand - markingPhD G: Right.PhD A: Yeah.Postdoc B: Yeah that's uh things, but {disfmarker} but real {disfmarker} real situation,PhD D: Mm - hmm.Professor C: well," real" , Um, the {disfmarker} uh there's one microphone that's close, that they have as {disfmarker} as this sort of thing, close versus distant. Uh but in a car, instead of {disfmarker} instead of having a projector noise it's {disfmarker} it's car noise. Uh but it wasn't artificially added to get some {disfmarker} some artificial signal - to - noise ratio. It was just people driving around in a car. So, that's {disfmarker} that's an indication, uh that was with, many sites competing, and this was the very best score and so forth, so. More typical numbers likePhD D: Although the models weren't, that good, right I mean, the models are pretty crappyProfessor C: You're right. I think that we could have done better on the models, but the thing is that we got {disfmarker} this {disfmarker} this is the kind of typical number, for all of the, uh, uh, things in this task, all of the, um, languages. And so I {disfmarker} I think we'd probably {disfmarker} the models would be better in some than in others. Um, so, uh. Anyway, just an indication once you get into this kind of realm even if you're looking at connected digits it can be pretty hard.PhD D: Hmm.Postdoc B: Hmm. It's gonna be fun to see how we, compare at this. Very exciting. s @ @.Professor C: Yeah.PhD D: How did we do on the TI - digitsGrad F: Well the prosodics are so much different s it's gonna be, strange. I mean the prosodics are not the same as TI - digits, for example.Professor C: Yeah.Grad F: So I'm {disfmarker} I'm not sure how much of effect that will have.PhD D: H how do {disfmarker}PhD not have a big, program, but take a small set, uh, subset of the conversational speech and a small subset of the digits, and {pause} look and {disfmarker} and just get a feeling for it. Um, just take a look. Really.Postdoc B: H That could {disfmarker} could be an interesting design, too, cuz then you'd have the com the comparison of the, uh, predictable speech versus the less predictable speechProfessor C: Cuz I don't think anybody is, I at least, I don't know, of anybody, uh, well, I don't know, {vocalsound} the answers.PhD D: Hey.Professor C: Yeah.Postdoc B: and maybe you'd find that it worked in, in the, case of the pr of the, uh, non - predictable.Professor C: Yeah.PhD D: Hafta think about, the particular acoustic features to mark, too, because, I mean, some things, they wouldn't be able to mark, like, uh, you know, uh, tense lax.Professor C: Mm - hmm.PhD D: Some things are really difficult. You know,Postdoc B: Well.PhD D: just listening.Grad F: M I think we can get Ohala in to, give us some advice on that.PhD D: Yeah.Postdoc B: Also I thought you were thinking of a much more restricted set of features, that {disfmarker}Professor C: Yeah, but I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I was, like he said, {vocalsound} I was gonna bring John in and ask John what he thought.Postdoc B: Yeah, sure. Sure. Yeah.Professor C: Right. But I mean you want {disfmarker} you want it be restrictive but you also want it to {disfmarker} to {disfmarker} to have coverage.Grad F: Right.Postdoc B: YeahProfessor C: You know i you should. It should be such that if you, if you, uh, if you had o um, all of the features, determined that you {disfmarker} that you were uh ch have chosen, that that

What did the group say about acoustic-phonetic analyses

The group also considered the prospect of performing fine-grained acoustic-phonetic analyses on a subset of Meeting Recorder digits or Switchboard data. Pre-segmentation manipulations that allow for the segmentation of channel-specific speech/non-speech portions of the signal and the distinction of foreground versus background speech were discussed.

Jerry Feldman's meeting, no problem. And, then {disfmarker}PhD A: OK.PhD G: So they're really running out of, data, prett I mean that's good.Postdoc B: Mm - hmm. Uh, that first set.PhD G: Um, OK.Professor C: They're running out of data unless we s make the decision that we should go over and start, uh, transcribing the other set.PhD G: So {disfmarker}Professor C: There {disfmarker} the first {disfmarker} the first half.PhD A: Yeah.Postdoc B: And so I was in the process of like editing them but this is wonderful news.PhD A: OK.Professor C: Alright.Postdoc B: We funded the experiment with, uh {disfmarker} also we were thinking maybe applying that that to getting the, Yeah, that'll be, very useful to getting the overlaps to be more precise all the way through.Professor C: So this, blends nicely into the update on transcripts.Postdoc B: Yes, it does. So, um, {comment} um, Liz, and {disfmarker} and Don, and I met this morning, in the BARCO room, with the lecture hall,Professor C: OK.PhD G: Yeah, please. Go ahead. And this afternoon.Postdoc B: and this afternoon, it drifted into the afternoon, {comment} {vocalsound} uh, concerning this issue of, um, the, well there's basically the issue of the interplay between the transcript format and the processing that, they need to do for, the SRI recognizer. And, um, well, so, I mentioned the process that I'm going through with the data, so, you know, I get the data back from the transcri Well, s uh, metaphorically, get the data back from the transcriber, and then I, check for simple things like spelling errors and things like that. And, um, I'm going to be doing a more thorough editing, with respect to consistency of the conventions. But they're {disfmarker} they're generally very good. And, then, I run it through, uh, process, transcript.Postdoc B: Mm - hmm. And that doesn't {disfmarker} the amount of editing that it would require is not very much either. I'm just hoping that the units that are provided in that way, {nonvocalsound} will be sufficient cuz I would save a lot of, uh, time, dividing things.PhD G: Yeah, some of them are quite long. Just from {disfmarker} I dunno how long were {disfmarker} you did oneGrad E: I saw a couple, {vocalsound} around twenty seconds, and that was just without looking too hard for it, so, I would imagine that there might be some that are longer.PhD G: Right.Postdoc B: Well n One question, e w would that be a single speaker or is that multiple speakers overlappingGrad E: No. No, but if we're gonna segment it, like if there's one speaker in there, that says" OK" or something, right in the middle, it's gonna have a lot of dead time around it,PhD G: Right. It's not the {disfmarker} it's not the fact that we can't process a twenty second segment, it's the fact that, there's twenty seconds in which to place one word in the wrong placeGrad E: so it's not {disfmarker}Postdoc B: Yeah.Grad E: Yeah.PhD G: You know, if {disfmarker} if someone has a very short utterance there, and that's where, we, might wanna have this individual, you know, ha have your pre pre - process input.PhD A: Yep. Yeah. Sure.Postdoc B: That's very important.PhD A: I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I thought that perhaps the transcribers could start then from the {disfmarker} those mult multi - channel, uh, speech - nonspeech detections, if they would like to.PhD G: And I just don't know, I have to run it.Postdoc B: In {disfmarker} in doing the hand - markingPhD G: Right.PhD A: Yeah.Postdoc B: Yeah that's mean. It's like y it's {disfmarker} and so, um, I've {disfmarker} I've incorporated also convention, with that but that's easy to handle at the post editing phase, and I'll mention it to, transcribers for the next phase but that's OK. And then, a similar conv uh, convention for numbers. So if they say one - eighty - three versus one eight three. Um, and also I'll be, um, encoding, as I do my post - editing, the, things that are in curly brackets, which are clarificational material. And eh to incorporate, uh, keyword, at the beginning. So, it's gonna be either a gloss or it's gonna be a vocal sound like a, laugh or a cough, or, so forth. Or a non - vocal sound like a doors door - slam, and that can be easily done with a, you know, just a {disfmarker} one little additional thing in the, in the general format.PhD G: Yeah we j we just needed a way to, strip, you know, all the comments, all the things th the {disfmarker} that linguist wants but the recognizer can't do anything with. Um, but to keep things that we mapped to like reject models, or, you know, uh, mouth noise, or, cough. And then there's this interesting issue Jane brought up which I hadn't thought about before but I was, realizing as I went through the transcripts, that there are some noises like, um, well the {disfmarker} good example was an inbreath, where a transcriber working from, the mixed, signal, doesn't know whose breath it is,Grad F: Right.PhD G: and they've been assigning it to someone that may or may not be correct. And what we do is, if it's a breath sound, you know, a sound from the speaker, we map it, to, a noise ninetieth quartile, rather than, minimum.PhD A: Yeah. Yeah.Postdoc B: Wow.PhD A: Yeah {disfmarker} yeah, then {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I did some {disfmarker} some {disfmarker} some things like that,Postdoc B: Interesting.PhD A: as there {disfmarker} there are some {disfmarker} some problems in, when, in the channel, there {disfmarker} they {disfmarker} the the speaker doesn't {disfmarker} doesn't talk much or doesn't talk at all. Then, the, yeah, there are {disfmarker} there are some problems with {disfmarker} with {disfmarker} with n with normalization, and, then, uh, there the system doesn't work at all. So, I'm {disfmarker} I'm glad that there is the {disfmarker} the digit part, where everybody is forced to say something,Professor C: Right.PhD A: so, that's {disfmarker} that's great for {disfmarker} for my purpose. And, the thing is I {disfmarker} I, then the evaluation of {disfmarker} of the system is a little bit hard, as I don't have any references.Grad F: Well we did the hand {disfmarker} the one by hand.PhD A: Yeah, that's the one {disfmarker} one wh where I do the training on so I can't do the evaluation on So the thing is, can the transcribers perhaps do some, some {disfmarker} some meetings in {disfmarker} in terms of speech - nonspeech in {disfmarker} in the specific channelsGrad F: Uh.Postdoc B: Well, I have {disfmarker}PhD D: Well won't you have that from their transcriptionsPostdoc B: Well, OK, so, now we need {disfmarker}Grad F: No, cuz we need is really tight.PhD A: Yeah.Postdoc B: so, um, I think I might have done what you're requesting, though I did it in the service of a different thing.PhD A: Oh, great.Postdoc B: I have thirty minutes that I've more tightly transcribed with reference to individual channels.PhD A: OK. OK, that's great. That's great for me. Yeah, so.Postdoc B: And I could {disfmarker} uh things, but {disfmarker} but real {disfmarker} real situation,PhD D: Mm - hmm.Professor C: well," real" , Um, the {disfmarker} uh there's one microphone that's close, that they have as {disfmarker} as this sort of thing, close versus distant. Uh but in a car, instead of {disfmarker} instead of having a projector noise it's {disfmarker} it's car noise. Uh but it wasn't artificially added to get some {disfmarker} some artificial signal - to - noise ratio. It was just people driving around in a car. So, that's {disfmarker} that's an indication, uh that was with, many sites competing, and this was the very best score and so forth, so. More typical numbers likePhD D: Although the models weren't, that good, right I mean, the models are pretty crappyProfessor C: You're right. I think that we could have done better on the models, but the thing is that we got {disfmarker} this {disfmarker} this is the kind of typical number, for all of the, uh, uh, things in this task, all of the, um, languages. And so I {disfmarker} I think we'd probably {disfmarker} the models would be better in some than in others. Um, so, uh. Anyway, just an indication once you get into this kind of realm even if you're looking at connected digits it can be pretty hard.PhD D: Hmm.Postdoc B: Hmm. It's gonna be fun to see how we, compare at this. Very exciting. s @ @.Professor C: Yeah.PhD D: How did we do on the TI - digitsGrad F: Well the prosodics are so much different s it's gonna be, strange. I mean the prosodics are not the same as TI - digits, for example.Professor C: Yeah.Grad F: So I'm {disfmarker} I'm not sure how much of effect that will have.PhD D: H how do {disfmarker}PhD

What approaches were considered for the analysis

The group discussed the prospect of performing fine-grained acoustic-phonetic analyses on a subset of digits or Switchboard data. It was suggested that prior to the use of data-driven methods, knowledge-driven approaches should be used to'seed'the data with sub-phonemic features, either manually, or using a rich pronunciation dictionary. A new version of the pre-segmentation tool that segments channel-specific speech/non-speech portions of the signal has been developed and tested.

Postdoc B: Alright.Professor C: So, uh {disfmarker}Grad F: Um, so I wanted to discuss digits briefly, but that won't take too long.Professor C: Oh good. Right. OK, agenda items, Uh, we have digits, What else we gotPhD A: New version of the presegmentation.Professor C: New version of presegmentation.Postdoc B: Um, do we wanna say something about the, an update of the, uh, transcriptPhD G: Yeah, why don't you summarize the {disfmarker}Professor C: Update on transcripts.PhD G: And I guess that includes some {disfmarker} the filtering for the, the ASI refs, too.Postdoc B: Mmm.Professor C: Filtering for whatPhD G: For the references that we need to go from the {disfmarker} the {pause} fancy transcripts to the sort of {nonvocalsound} brain - dead.Postdoc B: It'll {disfmarker} it'll be {disfmarker} basically it'll be a re - cap of a meeting that we had jointly this morning.Professor C: Uh - huh.PhD G: With Don, as well.Postdoc B: Mm - hmm.Professor C: Got it. Anything else more pressing than those things So {disfmarker} So, why don't we just do those. You said yours was brief, so {disfmarker}Grad F: OK. OK well, the, w uh as you can see from the numbers on the digits we're almost done. The digits goes up to {pause} about four thousand. Um, and so, uh, we probably will be done with the TI - digits in, um, another couple weeks. um, depending on how many we read each time. So there were a bunch that we skipped. You know, someone fills out the form and then they're not at the meeting and so it's blank. Um, but those are almost all filled in as well. And so, once we're {disfmarker} it's done it would be very nice to train up a recognizer and actually start working with this data.PhD D: not have a big, program, but take a small set, uh, subset of the conversational speech and a small subset of the digits, and {pause} look and {disfmarker} and just get a feeling for it. Um, just take a look. Really.Postdoc B: H That could {disfmarker} could be an interesting design, too, cuz then you'd have the com the comparison of the, uh, predictable speech versus the less predictable speechProfessor C: Cuz I don't think anybody is, I at least, I don't know, of anybody, uh, well, I don't know, {vocalsound} the answers.PhD D: Hey.Professor C: Yeah.Postdoc B: and maybe you'd find that it worked in, in the, case of the pr of the, uh, non - predictable.Professor C: Yeah.PhD D: Hafta think about, the particular acoustic features to mark, too, because, I mean, some things, they wouldn't be able to mark, like, uh, you know, uh, tense lax.Professor C: Mm - hmm.PhD D: Some things are really difficult. You know,Postdoc B: Well.PhD D: just listening.Grad F: M I think we can get Ohala in to, give us some advice on that.PhD D: Yeah.Postdoc B: Also I thought you were thinking of a much more restricted set of features, that {disfmarker}Professor C: Yeah, but I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I was, like he said, {vocalsound} I was gonna bring John in and ask John what he thought.Postdoc B: Yeah, sure. Sure. Yeah.Professor C: Right. But I mean you want {disfmarker} you want it be restrictive but you also want it to {disfmarker} to {disfmarker} to have coverage.Grad F: Right.Postdoc B: YeahProfessor C: You know i you should. It should be such that if you, if you, uh, if you had o um, all of the features, determined that you {disfmarker} that you were uh ch have chosen, that that I don't know what you call {pause} them. But not just fill pauses but all kinds of ways of {pause} interrupting {comment} and so forth.Grad F: Uh - huh.PhD G: And some of them are, {vocalsound} yeah," uh - huh" s, and" hmm" s, and," hmm!" " hmm" {comment}" OK" ," uh" {comment} Grunts, uh, that might be interesting.Postdoc B: He's got lip {disfmarker} {pause} lipsmacks.PhD G: In the meetings.Professor C: We should move on.Postdoc B: Yeah.Professor C: Uh, new version of, uh, presegmentationPhD A: Uh, oh yeah, um, {vocalsound} I worked a little bit on the {disfmarker} on the presegmentation to {disfmarker} to get another version which does channel - specific, uh, speech - nonspeech detection. And, what I did is I used some normalized features which, uh, look in into the {disfmarker} which is normalized energy, uh, energy normalized by the mean over the channels and by the, minimum over the, other. within each channel. And to {disfmarker} to, mm, to, yeah, to normalize also loudness and {disfmarker} and modified loudness and things and that those special features actually are in my feature vector.Grad F: Oh.PhD A: And, and, therefore to be able to, uh, somewhat distinguish between foreground and background speech in {disfmarker} in the different {disfmarker} in {disfmarker} each channel. And, eh, I tested it on {disfmarker} on three or four meetings and it seems to work, well yeah, fairly well, I {disfmarker} I would say. There are some problems with the lapel mike.Grad F: Of course.PhD A: Yeah. Uh, yeah.Grad F: Wow that's great.PhD A: And.Grad F: So I {disfmarker} I understand that's what you were saying about your problem with, minimum.PhD A: Yeah. And. Yeah, and {disfmarker} and I had {disfmarker} I had, uh, specific problems with.Grad F: I get it. So new use process, transcript.Postdoc B: Mm - hmm. And that doesn't {disfmarker} the amount of editing that it would require is not very much either. I'm just hoping that the units that are provided in that way, {nonvocalsound} will be sufficient cuz I would save a lot of, uh, time, dividing things.PhD G: Yeah, some of them are quite long. Just from {disfmarker} I dunno how long were {disfmarker} you did oneGrad E: I saw a couple, {vocalsound} around twenty seconds, and that was just without looking too hard for it, so, I would imagine that there might be some that are longer.PhD G: Right.Postdoc B: Well n One question, e w would that be a single speaker or is that multiple speakers overlappingGrad E: No. No, but if we're gonna segment it, like if there's one speaker in there, that says" OK" or something, right in the middle, it's gonna have a lot of dead time around it,PhD G: Right. It's not the {disfmarker} it's not the fact that we can't process a twenty second segment, it's the fact that, there's twenty seconds in which to place one word in the wrong placeGrad E: so it's not {disfmarker}Postdoc B: Yeah.Grad E: Yeah.PhD G: You know, if {disfmarker} if someone has a very short utterance there, and that's where, we, might wanna have this individual, you know, ha have your pre pre - process input.PhD A: Yep. Yeah. Sure.Postdoc B: That's very important.PhD A: I {disfmarker} I {disfmarker} I thought that perhaps the transcribers could start then from the {disfmarker} those mult multi - channel, uh, speech - nonspeech detections, if they would like to.PhD G: And I just don't know, I have to run it.Postdoc B: In {disfmarker} in doing the hand - markingPhD G: Right.PhD A: Yeah.Postdoc B: Yeah that's Jerry Feldman's meeting, no problem. And, then {disfmarker}PhD A: OK.PhD G: So they're really running out of, data, prett I mean that's good.Postdoc B: Mm - hmm. Uh, that first set.PhD G: Um, OK.Professor C: They're running out of data unless we s make the decision that we should go over and start, uh, transcribing the other set.PhD G: So {disfmarker}Professor C: There {disfmarker} the first {disfmarker} the first half.PhD A: Yeah.Postdoc B: And so I was in the process of like editing them but this is wonderful news.PhD A: OK.Professor C: Alright.Postdoc B: We funded the experiment with, uh {disfmarker} also we were thinking maybe applying that that to getting the, Yeah, that'll be, very useful to getting the overlaps to be more precise all the way through.Professor C: So this, blends nicely into the update on transcripts.Postdoc B: Yes, it does. So, um, {comment} um, Liz, and {disfmarker} and Don, and I met this morning, in the BARCO room, with the lecture hall,Professor C: OK.PhD G: Yeah, please. Go ahead. And this afternoon.Postdoc B: and this afternoon, it drifted into the afternoon, {comment} {vocalsound} uh, concerning this issue of, um, the, well there's basically the issue of the interplay between the transcript format and the processing that, they need to do for, the SRI recognizer. And, um, well, so, I mentioned the process that I'm going through with the data, so, you know, I get the data back from the transcri Well, s uh, metaphorically, get the data back from the transcriber, and then I, check for simple things like spelling errors and things like that. And, um, I'm going to be doing a more thorough editing, with respect to consistency of the conventions. But they're {disfmarker} they're generally very good. And, then, I run it through, uh,

Summarize the meeting.

The group discussed the collection status for a set of connected digits recordings that are nearly complete and ready to be trained on a recognizer. Anticipated results were discussed in reference to results obtained for other digits corpora, i. e. Aurora and TI-digits. The group also considered the prospect of performing fine-grained acoustic-phonetic analyses on a subset of Meeting Recorder digits or Switchboard data. Pre-segmentation manipulations that allow for the segmentation of channel-specific speech/non-speech portions of the signal and the distinction of foreground versus background speech were discussed. Finally, speaker fe008 and fe016 reported on new efforts to adapt transcriptions to the needs of the SRI recognizer, including conventions for encoding acronyms, numbers, ambient noise, and unidentified inbreaths.

Project Manager: Okay uh Agnes, you can help me for the slide when {gap}User Interface: Yep. Sure.Project Manager: okay. Okay, welcome back. I hope uh you have a fresh head and a fresh time. How t now the meeting actually we gathering here to discuss about the functional design meeting. Okay, and uh we'll issue some information from uh all of you. And it's in the, I think uh, in the sharing folder. And uh I will invite uh the Christine and the Ed and uh Agnes to discuss about on the various subjects. So can you go to the next slide Yeah uh the agenda of the meeting is opening. Then uh I'm going to talk about uh the project management, what I'm going to do, and uh, of course, I'm doing the project management and secretary both, okay, to take the minutes of the meeting. And there are three presentations. One is uh new project requirements. And the second one about uh decision on remote control functions. And uh finally we are closing. Uh and the meeting time will be uh forty minutes, so you have to be very quick. And I have come up with the {disfmarker} management come with the new proposal, okay, and I have to discuss a few points on this. Uh both says new insights in the aim of your project. Uh the one is uh the teletext becomes uh outmoded, okay because if uh because of the computer systems and the new technology. So we don't need to consider really about the teletext all in our new project design. And the second one is about uh the remote control. Should be used only for the T_V_. That's what our uh management says. And the third point, it's very very important to establish okay, and to add some features, like we are talking about, the speech recognition and all.User Interface: Should we maybe make a decision about what features we actually want to include,Project Manager: Yeah.User Interface:'cause we've thrown a lot of features onto the table, but do we actually want to incorporate all of them, or have we missed anythingMarketing: Hmm.Industrial Designer: Do you wanna go back and look at the closing slide, maybe that would provide some guidanceUser Interface: Sure.Industrial Designer: Doesn't really tell us.Project Manager: So not really this one we are talk abMarketing: Individual actions. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Well it says individual actions,Project Manager: Yep.Industrial Designer: it says user interf so I'm supposed to do the components concept, supposed to work on the user interface concept,User Interface: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: and you're supposed to keep watching the trends. Um and specific instructions will be sent by our our coach. I think we should {vocalsound} do as many features as uh {disfmarker} start with all of them right nowUser Interface: I thought {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: and eliminate them later in the process, that's my suggestion.Project Manager: Okay, that will be great. {vocalsound} And uh I'll send you the the minutes of meetIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} You can object if you want to {vocalsound}User Interface: No, I I'm just thinking in terms of time,Marketing: {vocalsound} She's objecting. {vocalsound}User Interface: like if {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah.User Interface: {vocalsound} Yes, now I'm objecting. No, I mean, I was just thinking is it really practical to start designing something with features that we're just gonna end up throwing away I mean, it takes a lot of time and effort for everyone to consider different features, um and s if we spend that time and effort on features that we're not gonna use, maybe it's better to spend it on do this. So, uh {vocalsound} personal preferences, {vocalsound} umUser Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: I think we could uh I I'm really thinking outside the box here, and I think that we should consider perhaps having an an an a a size uh {vocalsound} {disfmarker} a remote control that changes in size depending on the user preference.User Interface: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: So something that's very very flexible and inflatable and then you could shrink it. I think um it could either be {disfmarker} you could go either one extreme, be very colourful, or you could make it clear, and um kind of blend in with things, so you didn't have to um {vocalsound} uh have a problem with the th the decoration of the {disfmarker} of the user's home. Um I think uh it needs to be waterproof, because uh sometimes they fall into cupsProject Manager: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: and, you know, it might be out by the swimming pool or something like that. Um {vocalsound} if you uh mi one of {disfmarker} one of my requirements was about needs t to tell you when it's done its job or not, because half the time, I keep pushing on the remote control, and I don't know if it's actually understood my message, so I think it should give you some sort of an oral cue. And uh, course I never wanna replace the battery. {vocalsound} So,Marketing: {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: that's {disfmarker} those are my f preferences, and that's my presentation.Project Manager: Yeah, let me uh interrupt you uh if you can add other facility, other feature, like uh unbreakable.Industrial Designer: Yes.Project Manager: Okay, because uh especially today, you know, you have the family and the kids,User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: okay, and the kids throw it and they they play with their remotes and {gap}.Industrial Designer: today.Industrial Designer: Okay, we'll find that out.Project Manager: Yep.Marketing: From from your side uh, you're gonna have to go back the management and s be more s precise.Project Manager: Yes.Marketing: What do they wantProject Manager: Yes.Marketing: Uh {vocalsound}, a risk, take a risk on the market Something that's gonna cost more, but could very easily s make a boom in the marketProject Manager: Yes. Yep.Marketing: Because it has to be something totally different, has to be total totally new. Something that nobody has right now.Project Manager: Yeah butMarketing: And it's gonna cost.Project Manager: but end of the day, you're the sales guy, so I will come back and sit on your head because uh you are going to give your sales projection,Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: okay. It's uh of course it's uh good to uh tell the management how much it's cost usMarketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: and how much you are going to benefit,Marketing: Sure. Sure.Project Manager: okay. And uh, so I don't mind to convince, okay, the management to spend some more money on the project, okay, if you can make out ofMarketing: Obviously.Project Manager: the money from this project.Marketing: If the bottom line is positive. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yes, okay I don't mind to convince the the management,User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: okay.Marketing: Mm.Project Manager: The management says, okay, so they they don't want certain facilities, which it's already worked, okay, they want something uh new, okay. I think uh like uh speech recognit definitely they will agree, I don't think they'll say no for that, okay. And uh I hope I can convince the management on that, okay. So if you have any uh new ideas, okay, for uh your {disfmarker} you can always come up and uh you can tell me if you need any uh s special, both by directly going to a specific channel or by channel surfing. You need to be able to control the volume and then control any menus on the T_V_ to regulate contrast or whatever. So, the problems that people have expressed is that there's too many buttons on remote controls, in general. The buttons {disfmarker} it's not clear what they're supposed to do. Um often, you need to know specific button sequences {vocalsound} to get certain functionalities done, um which you don't necessarily always remember, especially if it's a functionality that you don't use very often. And that the buttons are too small. So, here we've got two examples where here on the left-hand side, you can see a remote control that has lots and lots of buttons.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}User Interface: The buttons, in a lot of cases, are tiny. Um they're hard to see, and okay, they're labelled, but the labels don't necessarily tell you too much. Whereas, on the other side, you have a much simpler remote control that I think basically has the minimum functionalities {vocalsound} that are needed. And it sort of looks simpler and just less imposing when you first look at it. So, I would be inclined to go sort of towards this, in terms of design, rather than this. And if there's specific functionalities that require more buttons, then we can figure out how to do it with existing um buttons. So my personal preferences are to keep the number of buttons to a limit, or to a minimum, sorry, make frequently used buttons bigger and more strategically placed, so like the on button being really obvious one, the channel changing and the volume, and to keep the design basically sleek and simple.Project Manager: Click mm.User Interface: Which, I think ties into what

What did the group discuss about speech recognition command

The group decided that the feature of speech recognition should be included to the remote control, even though it would exceed the cost constraint set by the management. Marketing believed that it is worth taking a risk because speech recognition is new to the market and customers would be willing to pay extra for this trendy function. What's more, Project Manager agreed to coordinate with some technical companies if Industrial Designer ever needed any technological backup.

Project Manager: Okay uh Agnes, you can help me for the slide when {gap}User Interface: Yep. Sure.Project Manager: okay. Okay, welcome back. I hope uh you have a fresh head and a fresh time. How t now the meeting actually we gathering here to discuss about the functional design meeting. Okay, and uh we'll issue some information from uh all of you. And it's in the, I think uh, in the sharing folder. And uh I will invite uh the Christine and the Ed and uh Agnes to discuss about on the various subjects. So can you go to the next slide Yeah uh the agenda of the meeting is opening. Then uh I'm going to talk about uh the project management, what I'm going to do, and uh, of course, I'm doing the project management and secretary both, okay, to take the minutes of the meeting. And there are three presentations. One is uh new project requirements. And the second one about uh decision on remote control functions. And uh finally we are closing. Uh and the meeting time will be uh forty minutes, so you have to be very quick. And I have come up with the {disfmarker} management come with the new proposal, okay, and I have to discuss a few points on this. Uh both says new insights in the aim of your project. Uh the one is uh the teletext becomes uh outmoded, okay because if uh because of the computer systems and the new technology. So we don't need to consider really about the teletext all in our new project design. And the second one is about uh the remote control. Should be used only for the T_V_. That's what our uh management says. And the third point, it's very very important to establish okay, and to add some features, like we are talking about, the speech recognition and all.User Interface: Should we maybe make a decision about what features we actually want to include,Project Manager: Yeah.User Interface:'cause we've thrown a lot of features onto the table, but do we actually want to incorporate all of them, or have we missed anythingMarketing: Hmm.Industrial Designer: Do you wanna go back and look at the closing slide, maybe that would provide some guidanceUser Interface: Sure.Industrial Designer: Doesn't really tell us.Project Manager: So not really this one we are talk abMarketing: Individual actions. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Well it says individual actions,Project Manager: Yep.Industrial Designer: it says user interf so I'm supposed to do the components concept, supposed to work on the user interface concept,User Interface: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: and you're supposed to keep watching the trends. Um and specific instructions will be sent by our our coach. I think we should {vocalsound} do as many features as uh {disfmarker} start with all of them right nowUser Interface: I thought {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: and eliminate them later in the process, that's my suggestion.Project Manager: Okay, that will be great. {vocalsound} And uh I'll send you the the minutes of meetIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} You can object if you want to {vocalsound}User Interface: No, I I'm just thinking in terms of time,Marketing: {vocalsound} She's objecting. {vocalsound}User Interface: like if {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah.User Interface: {vocalsound} Yes, now I'm objecting. No, I mean, I was just thinking is it really practical to start designing something with features that we're just gonna end up throwing away I mean, it takes a lot of time and effort for everyone to consider different features, um and s if we spend that time and effort on features that we're not gonna use, maybe it's better to spend it on today.Industrial Designer: Okay, we'll find that out.Project Manager: Yep.Marketing: From from your side uh, you're gonna have to go back the management and s be more s precise.Project Manager: Yes.Marketing: What do they wantProject Manager: Yes.Marketing: Uh {vocalsound}, a risk, take a risk on the market Something that's gonna cost more, but could very easily s make a boom in the marketProject Manager: Yes. Yep.Marketing: Because it has to be something totally different, has to be total totally new. Something that nobody has right now.Project Manager: Yeah butMarketing: And it's gonna cost.Project Manager: but end of the day, you're the sales guy, so I will come back and sit on your head because uh you are going to give your sales projection,Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: okay. It's uh of course it's uh good to uh tell the management how much it's cost usMarketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: and how much you are going to benefit,Marketing: Sure. Sure.Project Manager: okay. And uh, so I don't mind to convince, okay, the management to spend some more money on the project, okay, if you can make out ofMarketing: Obviously.Project Manager: the money from this project.Marketing: If the bottom line is positive. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yes, okay I don't mind to convince the the management,User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: okay.Marketing: Mm.Project Manager: The management says, okay, so they they don't want certain facilities, which it's already worked, okay, they want something uh new, okay. I think uh like uh speech recognit definitely they will agree, I don't think they'll say no for that, okay. And uh I hope I can convince the management on that, okay. So if you have any uh new ideas, okay, for uh your {disfmarker} you can always come up and uh you can tell me if you need any uh s special, Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Thirty-five percent say they're too difficult to use. So we have to figure out a way of making it um more user friendly. {vocalsound} Uh fifty percent say they can't find the remote half the time. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: So maybe one word speech recognition commands, say remote, and there's a beep beep beep, and they can find it through, you know, ten tons of newspapers, magazines, whatever you have at home.Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: But, in the cost that uh the management is looking for, that's not gonna be possible. But if it's trendy, if it's fancy, it's got some colour to it, if it's very easy {disfmarker} easy to use, if it's got simple remote {disfmarker} speech remote uh control, like I said, louder, softer, change channel, on, off, remote, it goes beep beep, I can find my my remote without spending half a day looking for it and getting all upset'cause I can't turn the T_V_ on. So we're gonna have to look at it in a {vocalsound} in this global idea, with the ideas of the industrial uh design.Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: But, price obviously we have to talk about.Project Manager: Yep. So what do you think about uh the design {gap} Do you think you can make it or uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: D uh I'm sorry {vocalsound}Project Manager: What do you think about uh the design, uh what he was talking about {disfmarker} of the speech recognitionMarketing: Speech recognition.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Well, uh training is always an issue with uh commands.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: So um {disfmarker} might uh {disfmarker} we can perhaps um {vocalsound} do it if the user is willing to spend some time in the training process, uh it could reduce th th uh the overall um cost. Not sure how. {vocalsound} from the marketing {disfmarker} yeah, from the marketing side, just to to give an idea what the management is looking for, I was looking for a a remote control to have a sUser Interface: S'scuse me for one sec.Marketing: I have a sales price of twenty-five Euro, with a production price of uh twelve and a half Euro. For what uh I think from what we're trying to find, we're tr we're looking for, I don't think that price is exactly in the market. OkayProject Manager: Mm-hmm.Marketing: I'll explain myself here now in the sense that uh in a {disfmarker} in the recent surveys, uh from the ages {disfmarker} fr from fifteen to thirty-five, eighty percent are willing to spend more money for something as fancy as trendy.Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Twenty-five Euros, uh that's that's a preson reasonable price. That's a market price right now. Now if we're gonna take a risk, and push this up a bit, make it more expensive,Project Manager: Yep.Marketing: but give them added things that they don't have now,Project Manager: Yep.Marketing: then it w it could possibly sell. Obviously the risk is there. Too expensive, they're not gonna buy. But, I think uh there's one other thing interesting {disfmarker} two things that are interesting {gap} is that uh from the fifteen to thirty-five year-old group, which always spends more money on trendy new things, speech recognition is requested.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Speech recognition .Marketing: And we're talking between seventy-five to ninety percent of this group is willing to pay for speech recognition on a remote.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Marketing: Obviously, we can't make a remote into a computer, but maybe simple commands. I dunno, louder, softer, on, off. That might be a possibility, even though it costs more, to be the first on the market to produce this.Project

Why did Marketing think highly of speech recognition command

Marketing believed this feature would improve the market competitiveness of this product based on a conducted survey on user requirement. One the one hand, 80% of the 15-35 year-old group are willing to spend more money for trendy new products. 75% - 90% of this group is willing to pay for speech recognition on a remote even though it is of higher price. On the other hand, half of the users said the remote control got lost easily and most of the time were hard to find. With speech recognition, however, this problem could be solved.

Project Manager: Okay uh Agnes, you can help me for the slide when {gap}User Interface: Yep. Sure.Project Manager: okay. Okay, welcome back. I hope uh you have a fresh head and a fresh time. How t now the meeting actually we gathering here to discuss about the functional design meeting. Okay, and uh we'll issue some information from uh all of you. And it's in the, I think uh, in the sharing folder. And uh I will invite uh the Christine and the Ed and uh Agnes to discuss about on the various subjects. So can you go to the next slide Yeah uh the agenda of the meeting is opening. Then uh I'm going to talk about uh the project management, what I'm going to do, and uh, of course, I'm doing the project management and secretary both, okay, to take the minutes of the meeting. And there are three presentations. One is uh new project requirements. And the second one about uh decision on remote control functions. And uh finally we are closing. Uh and the meeting time will be uh forty minutes, so you have to be very quick. And I have come up with the {disfmarker} management come with the new proposal, okay, and I have to discuss a few points on this. Uh both says new insights in the aim of your project. Uh the one is uh the teletext becomes uh outmoded, okay because if uh because of the computer systems and the new technology. So we don't need to consider really about the teletext all in our new project design. And the second one is about uh the remote control. Should be used only for the T_V_. That's what our uh management says. And the third point, it's very very important to establish today.Industrial Designer: Okay, we'll find that out.Project Manager: Yep.Marketing: From from your side uh, you're gonna have to go back the management and s be more s precise.Project Manager: Yes.Marketing: What do they wantProject Manager: Yes.Marketing: Uh {vocalsound}, a risk, take a risk on the market Something that's gonna cost more, but could very easily s make a boom in the marketProject Manager: Yes. Yep.Marketing: Because it has to be something totally different, has to be total totally new. Something that nobody has right now.Project Manager: Yeah butMarketing: And it's gonna cost.Project Manager: but end of the day, you're the sales guy, so I will come back and sit on your head because uh you are going to give your sales projection,Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: okay. It's uh of course it's uh good to uh tell the management how much it's cost usMarketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: and how much you are going to benefit,Marketing: Sure. Sure.Project Manager: okay. And uh, so I don't mind to convince, okay, the management to spend some more money on the project, okay, if you can make out ofMarketing: Obviously.Project Manager: the money from this project.Marketing: If the bottom line is positive. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yes, okay I don't mind to convince the the management,User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: okay.Marketing: Mm.Project Manager: The management says, okay, so they they don't want certain facilities, which it's already worked, okay, they want something uh new, okay. I think uh like uh speech recognit definitely they will agree, I don't think they'll say no for that, okay. And uh I hope I can convince the management on that, okay. So if you have any uh new ideas, okay, for uh your {disfmarker} you can always come up and uh you can tell me if you need any uh s special, okay, and to add some features, like we are talking about, the speech recognition and all.User Interface: Should we maybe make a decision about what features we actually want to include,Project Manager: Yeah.User Interface:'cause we've thrown a lot of features onto the table, but do we actually want to incorporate all of them, or have we missed anythingMarketing: Hmm.Industrial Designer: Do you wanna go back and look at the closing slide, maybe that would provide some guidanceUser Interface: Sure.Industrial Designer: Doesn't really tell us.Project Manager: So not really this one we are talk abMarketing: Individual actions. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Well it says individual actions,Project Manager: Yep.Industrial Designer: it says user interf so I'm supposed to do the components concept, supposed to work on the user interface concept,User Interface: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: and you're supposed to keep watching the trends. Um and specific instructions will be sent by our our coach. I think we should {vocalsound} do as many features as uh {disfmarker} start with all of them right nowUser Interface: I thought {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: and eliminate them later in the process, that's my suggestion.Project Manager: Okay, that will be great. {vocalsound} And uh I'll send you the the minutes of meetIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} You can object if you want to {vocalsound}User Interface: No, I I'm just thinking in terms of time,Marketing: {vocalsound} She's objecting. {vocalsound}User Interface: like if {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah.User Interface: {vocalsound} Yes, now I'm objecting. No, I mean, I was just thinking is it really practical to start designing something with features that we're just gonna end up throwing away I mean, it takes a lot of time and effort for everyone to consider different features, um and s if we spend that time and effort on features that we're not gonna use, maybe it's better to spend it on from the marketing {disfmarker} yeah, from the marketing side, just to to give an idea what the management is looking for, I was looking for a a remote control to have a sUser Interface: S'scuse me for one sec.Marketing: I have a sales price of twenty-five Euro, with a production price of uh twelve and a half Euro. For what uh I think from what we're trying to find, we're tr we're looking for, I don't think that price is exactly in the market. OkayProject Manager: Mm-hmm.Marketing: I'll explain myself here now in the sense that uh in a {disfmarker} in the recent surveys, uh from the ages {disfmarker} fr from fifteen to thirty-five, eighty percent are willing to spend more money for something as fancy as trendy.Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Twenty-five Euros, uh that's that's a preson reasonable price. That's a market price right now. Now if we're gonna take a risk, and push this up a bit, make it more expensive,Project Manager: Yep.Marketing: but give them added things that they don't have now,Project Manager: Yep.Marketing: then it w it could possibly sell. Obviously the risk is there. Too expensive, they're not gonna buy. But, I think uh there's one other thing interesting {disfmarker} two things that are interesting {gap} is that uh from the fifteen to thirty-five year-old group, which always spends more money on trendy new things, speech recognition is requested.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Speech recognition .Marketing: And we're talking between seventy-five to ninety percent of this group is willing to pay for speech recognition on a remote.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Marketing: Obviously, we can't make a remote into a computer, but maybe simple commands. I dunno, louder, softer, on, off. That might be a possibility, even though it costs more, to be the first on the market to produce this.Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Thirty-five percent say they're too difficult to use. So we have to figure out a way of making it um more user friendly. {vocalsound} Uh fifty percent say they can't find the remote half the time. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: So maybe one word speech recognition commands, say remote, and there's a beep beep beep, and they can find it through, you know, ten tons of newspapers, magazines, whatever you have at home.Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: But, in the cost that uh the management is looking for, that's not gonna be possible. But if it's trendy, if it's fancy, it's got some colour to it, if it's very easy {disfmarker} easy to use, if it's got simple remote {disfmarker} speech remote uh control, like I said, louder, softer, change channel, on, off, remote, it goes beep beep, I can find my my remote without spending half a day looking for it and getting all upset'cause I can't turn the T_V_ on. So we're gonna have to look at it in a {vocalsound} in this global idea, with the ideas of the industrial uh design.Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: But, price obviously we have to talk about.Project Manager: Yep. So what do you think about uh the design {gap} Do you think you can make it or uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: D uh I'm sorry {vocalsound}Project Manager: What do you think about uh the design, uh what he was talking about {disfmarker} of the speech recognitionMarketing: Speech recognition.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Well, uh training is always an issue with uh commands.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: So um {disfmarker} might uh {disfmarker} we can perhaps um {vocalsound} do it if the user is willing to spend some time in the training process, uh it could reduce th th uh the overall um cost. Not sure how. {vocalsound}

What did User Interface think about the speech recognition command

User Interface found this feature great, but he noticed that the ambient sound coming from television would confuse the speech recognition and might accidentally trigger the remote control. User Interface pointed out that Industrial Designer had to make sure the speech recognizer would be good enough to filter out the television speech and recognize only the user's voice. He believed that this feature, once successfully achieved, would make the product popular on the market.

okay, and to add some features, like we are talking about, the speech recognition and all.User Interface: Should we maybe make a decision about what features we actually want to include,Project Manager: Yeah.User Interface:'cause we've thrown a lot of features onto the table, but do we actually want to incorporate all of them, or have we missed anythingMarketing: Hmm.Industrial Designer: Do you wanna go back and look at the closing slide, maybe that would provide some guidanceUser Interface: Sure.Industrial Designer: Doesn't really tell us.Project Manager: So not really this one we are talk abMarketing: Individual actions. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Well it says individual actions,Project Manager: Yep.Industrial Designer: it says user interf so I'm supposed to do the components concept, supposed to work on the user interface concept,User Interface: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: and you're supposed to keep watching the trends. Um and specific instructions will be sent by our our coach. I think we should {vocalsound} do as many features as uh {disfmarker} start with all of them right nowUser Interface: I thought {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: and eliminate them later in the process, that's my suggestion.Project Manager: Okay, that will be great. {vocalsound} And uh I'll send you the the minutes of meetIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} You can object if you want to {vocalsound}User Interface: No, I I'm just thinking in terms of time,Marketing: {vocalsound} She's objecting. {vocalsound}User Interface: like if {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah.User Interface: {vocalsound} Yes, now I'm objecting. No, I mean, I was just thinking is it really practical to start designing something with features that we're just gonna end up throwing away I mean, it takes a lot of time and effort for everyone to consider different features, um and s if we spend that time and effort on features that we're not gonna use, maybe it's better to spend it on today.Industrial Designer: Okay, we'll find that out.Project Manager: Yep.Marketing: From from your side uh, you're gonna have to go back the management and s be more s precise.Project Manager: Yes.Marketing: What do they wantProject Manager: Yes.Marketing: Uh {vocalsound}, a risk, take a risk on the market Something that's gonna cost more, but could very easily s make a boom in the marketProject Manager: Yes. Yep.Marketing: Because it has to be something totally different, has to be total totally new. Something that nobody has right now.Project Manager: Yeah butMarketing: And it's gonna cost.Project Manager: but end of the day, you're the sales guy, so I will come back and sit on your head because uh you are going to give your sales projection,Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: okay. It's uh of course it's uh good to uh tell the management how much it's cost usMarketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: and how much you are going to benefit,Marketing: Sure. Sure.Project Manager: okay. And uh, so I don't mind to convince, okay, the management to spend some more money on the project, okay, if you can make out ofMarketing: Obviously.Project Manager: the money from this project.Marketing: If the bottom line is positive. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yes, okay I don't mind to convince the the management,User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: okay.Marketing: Mm.Project Manager: The management says, okay, so they they don't want certain facilities, which it's already worked, okay, they want something uh new, okay. I think uh like uh speech recognit definitely they will agree, I don't think they'll say no for that, okay. And uh I hope I can convince the management on that, okay. So if you have any uh new ideas, okay, for uh your {disfmarker} you can always come up and uh you can tell me if you need any uh s special, Project Manager: Okay uh Agnes, you can help me for the slide when {gap}User Interface: Yep. Sure.Project Manager: okay. Okay, welcome back. I hope uh you have a fresh head and a fresh time. How t now the meeting actually we gathering here to discuss about the functional design meeting. Okay, and uh we'll issue some information from uh all of you. And it's in the, I think uh, in the sharing folder. And uh I will invite uh the Christine and the Ed and uh Agnes to discuss about on the various subjects. So can you go to the next slide Yeah uh the agenda of the meeting is opening. Then uh I'm going to talk about uh the project management, what I'm going to do, and uh, of course, I'm doing the project management and secretary both, okay, to take the minutes of the meeting. And there are three presentations. One is uh new project requirements. And the second one about uh decision on remote control functions. And uh finally we are closing. Uh and the meeting time will be uh forty minutes, so you have to be very quick. And I have come up with the {disfmarker} management come with the new proposal, okay, and I have to discuss a few points on this. Uh both says new insights in the aim of your project. Uh the one is uh the teletext becomes uh outmoded, okay because if uh because of the computer systems and the new technology. So we don't need to consider really about the teletext all in our new project design. And the second one is about uh the remote control. Should be used only for the T_V_. That's what our uh management says. And the third point, it's very very important to establish But um anyway, um {vocalsound} I I think also that uh this might impact the battery life. And um so, maybe what we'll have to do is um add something where you can um recharge it wirelessly so that uh {vocalsound} y you know sen send power to it. So uh or maybe uh set it out in the sun and it uh, you know, gets uh, from the light, um a a solar cell inside thereUser Interface: Hmm.Industrial Designer: so that uh you have enough uh juice to do all these fancy things.User Interface: It seems also like with the speech recognition, yeah, it's a great feature, but if you're watching T_V_, there's a lot of ambient sound, and it's words. It's not just, you know, noises like something hitting. It's actual speech, so then you have to make sure that the speech recognizer is good enough to filter out the T_V_ speech, and the the user's speech. Otherwise, you can say remote.Industrial Designer: Off. {vocalsound}User Interface: But if someone on the screen is saying the same thing, all of a sudden, you have someone in a movie saying off and your screen dies, because they've triggered the remote control and it's turned off your T_V_. {vocalsound} So, I think if we can find a speech recognizer that can handle those types of problems, then yeah, it'd be a really good marketing gimmick.Marketing: Mm.User Interface: But, I think we seriously need to consider how that would impact the situation.Industrial Designer: Very good point.Marketing: Because tha w {vocalsound} with speech recognition uh th I'm not that good at that ideaUser Interface: Mm-hmm.Marketing: but th {vocalsound} if it's a one-word recognition,'cause I know with telephones and cars and things I've seen in the States,User Interface: Yeah.Marketing: {gap} a friend of mine Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Thirty-five percent say they're too difficult to use. So we have to figure out a way of making it um more user friendly. {vocalsound} Uh fifty percent say they can't find the remote half the time. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: So maybe one word speech recognition commands, say remote, and there's a beep beep beep, and they can find it through, you know, ten tons of newspapers, magazines, whatever you have at home.Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: But, in the cost that uh the management is looking for, that's not gonna be possible. But if it's trendy, if it's fancy, it's got some colour to it, if it's very easy {disfmarker} easy to use, if it's got simple remote {disfmarker} speech remote uh control, like I said, louder, softer, change channel, on, off, remote, it goes beep beep, I can find my my remote without spending half a day looking for it and getting all upset'cause I can't turn the T_V_ on. So we're gonna have to look at it in a {vocalsound} in this global idea, with the ideas of the industrial uh design.Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: But, price obviously we have to talk about.Project Manager: Yep. So what do you think about uh the design {gap} Do you think you can make it or uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: D uh I'm sorry {vocalsound}Project Manager: What do you think about uh the design, uh what he was talking about {disfmarker} of the speech recognitionMarketing: Speech recognition.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Well, uh training is always an issue with uh commands.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: So um {disfmarker} might uh {disfmarker} we can perhaps um {vocalsound} do it if the user is willing to spend some time in the training process, uh it could reduce th th uh the overall um cost. Not sure how. {vocalsound}

Summarize the discussion about functional design of the product features.

Industrial Designer suggested that the remote control needed to be able to turn the television on and off, control the volume and the menu, change channels, both by directly going to a specific channel or by channel surfing. As for the material used for the construction of the outer case, it needed to be not only flexible and inflatable, but also waterproof. The product itself would be better if it could change in size depending on user preference. In addition, the remote control should be able to respond to the user by sending out an oral cue in order to show that it understood your message correctly.

today.Industrial Designer: Okay, we'll find that out.Project Manager: Yep.Marketing: From from your side uh, you're gonna have to go back the management and s be more s precise.Project Manager: Yes.Marketing: What do they wantProject Manager: Yes.Marketing: Uh {vocalsound}, a risk, take a risk on the market Something that's gonna cost more, but could very easily s make a boom in the marketProject Manager: Yes. Yep.Marketing: Because it has to be something totally different, has to be total totally new. Something that nobody has right now.Project Manager: Yeah butMarketing: And it's gonna cost.Project Manager: but end of the day, you're the sales guy, so I will come back and sit on your head because uh you are going to give your sales projection,Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: okay. It's uh of course it's uh good to uh tell the management how much it's cost usMarketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: and how much you are going to benefit,Marketing: Sure. Sure.Project Manager: okay. And uh, so I don't mind to convince, okay, the management to spend some more money on the project, okay, if you can make out ofMarketing: Obviously.Project Manager: the money from this project.Marketing: If the bottom line is positive. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yes, okay I don't mind to convince the the management,User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: okay.Marketing: Mm.Project Manager: The management says, okay, so they they don't want certain facilities, which it's already worked, okay, they want something uh new, okay. I think uh like uh speech recognit definitely they will agree, I don't think they'll say no for that, okay. And uh I hope I can convince the management on that, okay. So if you have any uh new ideas, okay, for uh your {disfmarker} you can always come up and uh you can tell me if you need any uh s special, Project Manager: Okay uh Agnes, you can help me for the slide when {gap}User Interface: Yep. Sure.Project Manager: okay. Okay, welcome back. I hope uh you have a fresh head and a fresh time. How t now the meeting actually we gathering here to discuss about the functional design meeting. Okay, and uh we'll issue some information from uh all of you. And it's in the, I think uh, in the sharing folder. And uh I will invite uh the Christine and the Ed and uh Agnes to discuss about on the various subjects. So can you go to the next slide Yeah uh the agenda of the meeting is opening. Then uh I'm going to talk about uh the project management, what I'm going to do, and uh, of course, I'm doing the project management and secretary both, okay, to take the minutes of the meeting. And there are three presentations. One is uh new project requirements. And the second one about uh decision on remote control functions. And uh finally we are closing. Uh and the meeting time will be uh forty minutes, so you have to be very quick. And I have come up with the {disfmarker} management come with the new proposal, okay, and I have to discuss a few points on this. Uh both says new insights in the aim of your project. Uh the one is uh the teletext becomes uh outmoded, okay because if uh because of the computer systems and the new technology. So we don't need to consider really about the teletext all in our new project design. And the second one is about uh the remote control. Should be used only for the T_V_. That's what our uh management says. And the third point, it's very very important to establish okay, and to add some features, like we are talking about, the speech recognition and all.User Interface: Should we maybe make a decision about what features we actually want to include,Project Manager: Yeah.User Interface:'cause we've thrown a lot of features onto the table, but do we actually want to incorporate all of them, or have we missed anythingMarketing: Hmm.Industrial Designer: Do you wanna go back and look at the closing slide, maybe that would provide some guidanceUser Interface: Sure.Industrial Designer: Doesn't really tell us.Project Manager: So not really this one we are talk abMarketing: Individual actions. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Well it says individual actions,Project Manager: Yep.Industrial Designer: it says user interf so I'm supposed to do the components concept, supposed to work on the user interface concept,User Interface: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: and you're supposed to keep watching the trends. Um and specific instructions will be sent by our our coach. I think we should {vocalsound} do as many features as uh {disfmarker} start with all of them right nowUser Interface: I thought {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: and eliminate them later in the process, that's my suggestion.Project Manager: Okay, that will be great. {vocalsound} And uh I'll send you the the minutes of meetIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} You can object if you want to {vocalsound}User Interface: No, I I'm just thinking in terms of time,Marketing: {vocalsound} She's objecting. {vocalsound}User Interface: like if {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah.User Interface: {vocalsound} Yes, now I'm objecting. No, I mean, I was just thinking is it really practical to start designing something with features that we're just gonna end up throwing away I mean, it takes a lot of time and effort for everyone to consider different features, um and s if we spend that time and effort on features that we're not gonna use, maybe it's better to spend it on from the marketing {disfmarker} yeah, from the marketing side, just to to give an idea what the management is looking for, I was looking for a a remote control to have a sUser Interface: S'scuse me for one sec.Marketing: I have a sales price of twenty-five Euro, with a production price of uh twelve and a half Euro. For what uh I think from what we're trying to find, we're tr we're looking for, I don't think that price is exactly in the market. OkayProject Manager: Mm-hmm.Marketing: I'll explain myself here now in the sense that uh in a {disfmarker} in the recent surveys, uh from the ages {disfmarker} fr from fifteen to thirty-five, eighty percent are willing to spend more money for something as fancy as trendy.Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Twenty-five Euros, uh that's that's a preson reasonable price. That's a market price right now. Now if we're gonna take a risk, and push this up a bit, make it more expensive,Project Manager: Yep.Marketing: but give them added things that they don't have now,Project Manager: Yep.Marketing: then it w it could possibly sell. Obviously the risk is there. Too expensive, they're not gonna buy. But, I think uh there's one other thing interesting {disfmarker} two things that are interesting {gap} is that uh from the fifteen to thirty-five year-old group, which always spends more money on trendy new things, speech recognition is requested.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Speech recognition .Marketing: And we're talking between seventy-five to ninety percent of this group is willing to pay for speech recognition on a remote.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Marketing: Obviously, we can't make a remote into a computer, but maybe simple commands. I dunno, louder, softer, on, off. That might be a possibility, even though it costs more, to be the first on the market to produce this.Project were invented and so forth, so, I guess this guy Zenith uh created the Flashmatic, which I kinda like the idea,'cause it made me think of um um maybe the remote control made a big flash when uh you turn the T_V_ on and off, that might be interesting. And um {vocalsound} so it was highly directional flash light that uh you could turn the picture on and off, and the sound on and off, and change channels c so I think um those are still requirements we have today, uh fifty years later.Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: And uh it was really a pioneering innovation, but it was uh sensitive to the sun, so that uh it would get {disfmarker} would start off by the {disfmarker} you'd get {disfmarker} it would easily cause um problems. So, uh I {disfmarker} in addition to uh looking at the um {vocalsound} uh the functional requir so all these devices are examples of where uh mm {disfmarker} they {vocalsound} represent examples that are available today {vocalsound} {vocalsound} which I think the one in the middle is r um really uh something to keep in mind.Marketing: Fantastic. {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: It'd be easy to find. And um it would uh y you'd {vocalsound} {disfmarker} you could throw it at things if if the T_V_ didn't turn on and off, you could use it for something else. And since I'm not really um {vocalsound} Industrial Designer, I didn't really know what to do with this slide. But um {vocalsound} I just {vocalsound} took some {vocalsound} different uh schematics and I put them into this, and I guess this is what a slide might look like if you were drawing a circuit board. {gap} I don't know why um we were asked to

What features did User Interface think the remote control should have for its buttons

Based on user perspective feedback, User Interface pointed out that the buttons on remote controls are generally too many and too small. Even though they were sometimes labeled, it was still not clear for the users to tell what each button was supposed to do. Given this, User Interface preferred to keep the number of buttons to a minimum and make frequently used buttons bigger and more strategically placed. He believed a simpler design would make the product less imposing.

today.Industrial Designer: Okay, we'll find that out.Project Manager: Yep.Marketing: From from your side uh, you're gonna have to go back the management and s be more s precise.Project Manager: Yes.Marketing: What do they wantProject Manager: Yes.Marketing: Uh {vocalsound}, a risk, take a risk on the market Something that's gonna cost more, but could very easily s make a boom in the marketProject Manager: Yes. Yep.Marketing: Because it has to be something totally different, has to be total totally new. Something that nobody has right now.Project Manager: Yeah butMarketing: And it's gonna cost.Project Manager: but end of the day, you're the sales guy, so I will come back and sit on your head because uh you are going to give your sales projection,Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: okay. It's uh of course it's uh good to uh tell the management how much it's cost usMarketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: and how much you are going to benefit,Marketing: Sure. Sure.Project Manager: okay. And uh, so I don't mind to convince, okay, the management to spend some more money on the project, okay, if you can make out ofMarketing: Obviously.Project Manager: the money from this project.Marketing: If the bottom line is positive. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yes, okay I don't mind to convince the the management,User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: okay.Marketing: Mm.Project Manager: The management says, okay, so they they don't want certain facilities, which it's already worked, okay, they want something uh new, okay. I think uh like uh speech recognit definitely they will agree, I don't think they'll say no for that, okay. And uh I hope I can convince the management on that, okay. So if you have any uh new ideas, okay, for uh your {disfmarker} you can always come up and uh you can tell me if you need any uh s special, Project Manager: Okay uh Agnes, you can help me for the slide when {gap}User Interface: Yep. Sure.Project Manager: okay. Okay, welcome back. I hope uh you have a fresh head and a fresh time. How t now the meeting actually we gathering here to discuss about the functional design meeting. Okay, and uh we'll issue some information from uh all of you. And it's in the, I think uh, in the sharing folder. And uh I will invite uh the Christine and the Ed and uh Agnes to discuss about on the various subjects. So can you go to the next slide Yeah uh the agenda of the meeting is opening. Then uh I'm going to talk about uh the project management, what I'm going to do, and uh, of course, I'm doing the project management and secretary both, okay, to take the minutes of the meeting. And there are three presentations. One is uh new project requirements. And the second one about uh decision on remote control functions. And uh finally we are closing. Uh and the meeting time will be uh forty minutes, so you have to be very quick. And I have come up with the {disfmarker} management come with the new proposal, okay, and I have to discuss a few points on this. Uh both says new insights in the aim of your project. Uh the one is uh the teletext becomes uh outmoded, okay because if uh because of the computer systems and the new technology. So we don't need to consider really about the teletext all in our new project design. And the second one is about uh the remote control. Should be used only for the T_V_. That's what our uh management says. And the third point, it's very very important to establish okay, and to add some features, like we are talking about, the speech recognition and all.User Interface: Should we maybe make a decision about what features we actually want to include,Project Manager: Yeah.User Interface:'cause we've thrown a lot of features onto the table, but do we actually want to incorporate all of them, or have we missed anythingMarketing: Hmm.Industrial Designer: Do you wanna go back and look at the closing slide, maybe that would provide some guidanceUser Interface: Sure.Industrial Designer: Doesn't really tell us.Project Manager: So not really this one we are talk abMarketing: Individual actions. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Well it says individual actions,Project Manager: Yep.Industrial Designer: it says user interf so I'm supposed to do the components concept, supposed to work on the user interface concept,User Interface: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: and you're supposed to keep watching the trends. Um and specific instructions will be sent by our our coach. I think we should {vocalsound} do as many features as uh {disfmarker} start with all of them right nowUser Interface: I thought {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: and eliminate them later in the process, that's my suggestion.Project Manager: Okay, that will be great. {vocalsound} And uh I'll send you the the minutes of meetIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} You can object if you want to {vocalsound}User Interface: No, I I'm just thinking in terms of time,Marketing: {vocalsound} She's objecting. {vocalsound}User Interface: like if {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah.User Interface: {vocalsound} Yes, now I'm objecting. No, I mean, I was just thinking is it really practical to start designing something with features that we're just gonna end up throwing away I mean, it takes a lot of time and effort for everyone to consider different features, um and s if we spend that time and effort on features that we're not gonna use, maybe it's better to spend it on were invented and so forth, so, I guess this guy Zenith uh created the Flashmatic, which I kinda like the idea,'cause it made me think of um um maybe the remote control made a big flash when uh you turn the T_V_ on and off, that might be interesting. And um {vocalsound} so it was highly directional flash light that uh you could turn the picture on and off, and the sound on and off, and change channels c so I think um those are still requirements we have today, uh fifty years later.Project Manager: {vocalsound}User Interface: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: And uh it was really a pioneering innovation, but it was uh sensitive to the sun, so that uh it would get {disfmarker} would start off by the {disfmarker} you'd get {disfmarker} it would easily cause um problems. So, uh I {disfmarker} in addition to uh looking at the um {vocalsound} uh the functional requir so all these devices are examples of where uh mm {disfmarker} they {vocalsound} represent examples that are available today {vocalsound} {vocalsound} which I think the one in the middle is r um really uh something to keep in mind.Marketing: Fantastic. {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: It'd be easy to find. And um it would uh y you'd {vocalsound} {disfmarker} you could throw it at things if if the T_V_ didn't turn on and off, you could use it for something else. And since I'm not really um {vocalsound} Industrial Designer, I didn't really know what to do with this slide. But um {vocalsound} I just {vocalsound} took some {vocalsound} different uh schematics and I put them into this, and I guess this is what a slide might look like if you were drawing a circuit board. {gap} I don't know why um we were asked to from the marketing {disfmarker} yeah, from the marketing side, just to to give an idea what the management is looking for, I was looking for a a remote control to have a sUser Interface: S'scuse me for one sec.Marketing: I have a sales price of twenty-five Euro, with a production price of uh twelve and a half Euro. For what uh I think from what we're trying to find, we're tr we're looking for, I don't think that price is exactly in the market. OkayProject Manager: Mm-hmm.Marketing: I'll explain myself here now in the sense that uh in a {disfmarker} in the recent surveys, uh from the ages {disfmarker} fr from fifteen to thirty-five, eighty percent are willing to spend more money for something as fancy as trendy.Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Twenty-five Euros, uh that's that's a preson reasonable price. That's a market price right now. Now if we're gonna take a risk, and push this up a bit, make it more expensive,Project Manager: Yep.Marketing: but give them added things that they don't have now,Project Manager: Yep.Marketing: then it w it could possibly sell. Obviously the risk is there. Too expensive, they're not gonna buy. But, I think uh there's one other thing interesting {disfmarker} two things that are interesting {gap} is that uh from the fifteen to thirty-five year-old group, which always spends more money on trendy new things, speech recognition is requested.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Speech recognition .Marketing: And we're talking between seventy-five to ninety percent of this group is willing to pay for speech recognition on a remote.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Marketing: Obviously, we can't make a remote into a computer, but maybe simple commands. I dunno, louder, softer, on, off. That might be a possibility, even though it costs more, to be the first on the market to produce this.Project

What features did Project Manager recommend to be incorporated in the new remote control

Given the fact that for families with children, remote controls were always played or even thrown by kids, Project Manager would prefer the material used in the construction of the product, especially on the outside, to be unbreakable. Project Manager also suggested that the product should be slim and simple. On top of that, it would be better if the remote control could be universal to use for any kind of television.

today.Industrial Designer: Okay, we'll find that out.Project Manager: Yep.Marketing: From from your side uh, you're gonna have to go back the management and s be more s precise.Project Manager: Yes.Marketing: What do they wantProject Manager: Yes.Marketing: Uh {vocalsound}, a risk, take a risk on the market Something that's gonna cost more, but could very easily s make a boom in the marketProject Manager: Yes. Yep.Marketing: Because it has to be something totally different, has to be total totally new. Something that nobody has right now.Project Manager: Yeah butMarketing: And it's gonna cost.Project Manager: but end of the day, you're the sales guy, so I will come back and sit on your head because uh you are going to give your sales projection,Marketing: {vocalsound}User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: okay. It's uh of course it's uh good to uh tell the management how much it's cost usMarketing: Mm-hmm.Project Manager: and how much you are going to benefit,Marketing: Sure. Sure.Project Manager: okay. And uh, so I don't mind to convince, okay, the management to spend some more money on the project, okay, if you can make out ofMarketing: Obviously.Project Manager: the money from this project.Marketing: If the bottom line is positive. {vocalsound}Project Manager: Yes, okay I don't mind to convince the the management,User Interface: {vocalsound}Project Manager: okay.Marketing: Mm.Project Manager: The management says, okay, so they they don't want certain facilities, which it's already worked, okay, they want something uh new, okay. I think uh like uh speech recognit definitely they will agree, I don't think they'll say no for that, okay. And uh I hope I can convince the management on that, okay. So if you have any uh new ideas, okay, for uh your {disfmarker} you can always come up and uh you can tell me if you need any uh s special, okay, and to add some features, like we are talking about, the speech recognition and all.User Interface: Should we maybe make a decision about what features we actually want to include,Project Manager: Yeah.User Interface:'cause we've thrown a lot of features onto the table, but do we actually want to incorporate all of them, or have we missed anythingMarketing: Hmm.Industrial Designer: Do you wanna go back and look at the closing slide, maybe that would provide some guidanceUser Interface: Sure.Industrial Designer: Doesn't really tell us.Project Manager: So not really this one we are talk abMarketing: Individual actions. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: Well it says individual actions,Project Manager: Yep.Industrial Designer: it says user interf so I'm supposed to do the components concept, supposed to work on the user interface concept,User Interface: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: and you're supposed to keep watching the trends. Um and specific instructions will be sent by our our coach. I think we should {vocalsound} do as many features as uh {disfmarker} start with all of them right nowUser Interface: I thought {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: and eliminate them later in the process, that's my suggestion.Project Manager: Okay, that will be great. {vocalsound} And uh I'll send you the the minutes of meetIndustrial Designer: {vocalsound} You can object if you want to {vocalsound}User Interface: No, I I'm just thinking in terms of time,Marketing: {vocalsound} She's objecting. {vocalsound}User Interface: like if {disfmarker}Project Manager: Yeah.User Interface: {vocalsound} Yes, now I'm objecting. No, I mean, I was just thinking is it really practical to start designing something with features that we're just gonna end up throwing away I mean, it takes a lot of time and effort for everyone to consider different features, um and s if we spend that time and effort on features that we're not gonna use, maybe it's better to spend it on Project Manager: Okay uh Agnes, you can help me for the slide when {gap}User Interface: Yep. Sure.Project Manager: okay. Okay, welcome back. I hope uh you have a fresh head and a fresh time. How t now the meeting actually we gathering here to discuss about the functional design meeting. Okay, and uh we'll issue some information from uh all of you. And it's in the, I think uh, in the sharing folder. And uh I will invite uh the Christine and the Ed and uh Agnes to discuss about on the various subjects. So can you go to the next slide Yeah uh the agenda of the meeting is opening. Then uh I'm going to talk about uh the project management, what I'm going to do, and uh, of course, I'm doing the project management and secretary both, okay, to take the minutes of the meeting. And there are three presentations. One is uh new project requirements. And the second one about uh decision on remote control functions. And uh finally we are closing. Uh and the meeting time will be uh forty minutes, so you have to be very quick. And I have come up with the {disfmarker} management come with the new proposal, okay, and I have to discuss a few points on this. Uh both says new insights in the aim of your project. Uh the one is uh the teletext becomes uh outmoded, okay because if uh because of the computer systems and the new technology. So we don't need to consider really about the teletext all in our new project design. And the second one is about uh the remote control. Should be used only for the T_V_. That's what our uh management says. And the third point, it's very very important to establish Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Thirty-five percent say they're too difficult to use. So we have to figure out a way of making it um more user friendly. {vocalsound} Uh fifty percent say they can't find the remote half the time. {vocalsound}Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}Marketing: So maybe one word speech recognition commands, say remote, and there's a beep beep beep, and they can find it through, you know, ten tons of newspapers, magazines, whatever you have at home.Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: But, in the cost that uh the management is looking for, that's not gonna be possible. But if it's trendy, if it's fancy, it's got some colour to it, if it's very easy {disfmarker} easy to use, if it's got simple remote {disfmarker} speech remote uh control, like I said, louder, softer, change channel, on, off, remote, it goes beep beep, I can find my my remote without spending half a day looking for it and getting all upset'cause I can't turn the T_V_ on. So we're gonna have to look at it in a {vocalsound} in this global idea, with the ideas of the industrial uh design.Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: But, price obviously we have to talk about.Project Manager: Yep. So what do you think about uh the design {gap} Do you think you can make it or uh {disfmarker}Industrial Designer: D uh I'm sorry {vocalsound}Project Manager: What do you think about uh the design, uh what he was talking about {disfmarker} of the speech recognitionMarketing: Speech recognition.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Well, uh training is always an issue with uh commands.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Industrial Designer: So um {disfmarker} might uh {disfmarker} we can perhaps um {vocalsound} do it if the user is willing to spend some time in the training process, uh it could reduce th th uh the overall um cost. Not sure how. {vocalsound} from the marketing {disfmarker} yeah, from the marketing side, just to to give an idea what the management is looking for, I was looking for a a remote control to have a sUser Interface: S'scuse me for one sec.Marketing: I have a sales price of twenty-five Euro, with a production price of uh twelve and a half Euro. For what uh I think from what we're trying to find, we're tr we're looking for, I don't think that price is exactly in the market. OkayProject Manager: Mm-hmm.Marketing: I'll explain myself here now in the sense that uh in a {disfmarker} in the recent surveys, uh from the ages {disfmarker} fr from fifteen to thirty-five, eighty percent are willing to spend more money for something as fancy as trendy.Project Manager: {vocalsound}Marketing: Twenty-five Euros, uh that's that's a preson reasonable price. That's a market price right now. Now if we're gonna take a risk, and push this up a bit, make it more expensive,Project Manager: Yep.Marketing: but give them added things that they don't have now,Project Manager: Yep.Marketing: then it w it could possibly sell. Obviously the risk is there. Too expensive, they're not gonna buy. But, I think uh there's one other thing interesting {disfmarker} two things that are interesting {gap} is that uh from the fifteen to thirty-five year-old group, which always spends more money on trendy new things, speech recognition is requested.Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Speech recognition .Marketing: And we're talking between seventy-five to ninety percent of this group is willing to pay for speech recognition on a remote.Project Manager: Mm-hmm.Marketing: Obviously, we can't make a remote into a computer, but maybe simple commands. I dunno, louder, softer, on, off. That might be a possibility, even though it costs more, to be the first on the market to produce this.Project

Summarize the whole meeting.

This is the second meet-up for the new product of television remote control, with a particular focus on its functional design. Industrial Designer, Marketing and User Interface were each invited to give a presentation on the subject that they are in charge of. On the basis of conducted user requirement survey, Industrial Designer and User Interface put forward their ideas on remote control features which are new to the existing market, along with the functionality and outlook of the product. Among all the features, speech recognition command takes up the majority of discussed subjects. The group also discussed the material appropriate to use in the construction. After the group determined the financial target of this project, as well as the production price and reasonable selling price, Marketing suggested taking a risk in price rise.