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A biblical digression
> From: fork-admin@xent.com [mailto:fork-admin@xent.com] On Behalf Of
Adam
> L. Beberg
>
> If the creator didnt say you could have it without paying, it's theft,
so
> simple, hell that's even in all the major holy books.
Ran across a site which claimed to explain the original meaning of the
Ten Commandments. It seems some of those meanings have evolved a bit,
too.
In particular, there was a claim that the commandment on stealing was
actually specifically about 'man stealing -- selling a free man into
slavery. Certainly the US southerners were particularly sensitive to
the term 'man stealer' in a way I didn't understand.
Yep, I know he said all holy books. No, I don't know if this site was
blowing hot air. It just read like someone had done their homework.
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| 0 |
NYTimes.com Article: Texas Pacific Goes Where Others Fear to Spend
This article from NYTimes.com
has been sent to you by khare@alumni.caltech.edu.
Texas Pacific, in addition to its multibillion dollar portfolio detailed below, actually does invest in promising new companies, not just turnarounds. It's just that KnowNow is waaay to small of a part of their $7.2B portfolio... so far!
Rohit
khare@alumni.caltech.edu
Texas Pacific Goes Where Others Fear to Spend
August 25, 2002
By RIVA D. ATLAS and EDWARD WONG
It was one of the first calls David N. Siegel placed when
he became chief executive of the beleaguered US Airways
last March. Seeking advice on how to hammer out a leaner
and meaner business plan, keep his planes flying and
renegotiate costly contracts with the unions, he flipped
through his files and found the number for the Texas
Pacific Group, an investment firm headed by David
Bonderman, a former civil rights lawyer with a reputation
for fixing problem companies.
Mr. Siegel, once a top executive at Continental Airlines,
had watched Texas Pacific's partners turn an investment of
$66 million in the airline, made three years after it filed
for bankruptcy in 1990, into a profit of more than $600
million. And they had made nearly as much on their stake in
America West, which filed for bankruptcy in 1992.
That search for advice turned into an offer. Why not let
Texas Pacific have a role in US Airways' revival? asked
Richard Schifter, the Texas Pacific executive whom Mr.
Siegel reached.
In June, Mr. Siegel called Mr. Schifter again. And days
before US Airways announced its plans to file for
bankruptcy two weeks ago - but after it had negotiated
about $550 million in concessions with its unions - Texas
Pacific, based in Fort Worth and San Francisco, agreed to
kick in $100 million as part of a $500 million loan to keep
the company operating during bankruptcy. It also agreed to
buy $200 million of stock, or 38 percent of the company,
and take 5 of 13 seats on the board if US Airways emerges
from bankruptcy - unless another investor surfaces with a
better offer.
"One of the reasons we were interested is few other folks
were," said James Coulter, a partner at Texas Pacific, in
an interview after the bankruptcy filing. "There aren't
many people around with the stomach or the knowledge to
delve into the airline industry."
Texas Pacific, which manages $8 billion, thrives by buying
businesses no one else wants. Mr. Coulter and Mr. Bonderman
made their names during the recession of the early 1990's
with investments in Continental and America West. The
firm's hallmark is to take an active hand in shaping
companies, sometimes ousting poor managers and tapping its
extensive network of contacts for talented replacements.
Now the partners are again looking for trouble. In the last
year alone, Texas Pacific has announced or completed six
acquisitions, most in unloved industries like
semiconductors, reinsurance and airlines. Just last month,
it announced plans to buy Burger King, which has been
losing market share, for $2.26 billion. It is also bidding
for Bankgesellschaft Berlin, a large and troubled bank.
The most creative, and potentially lucrative, of these
deals could be Texas Pacific's acquisition last November of
MEMC Electronic Materials, a semiconductor company, for $6
- yes, just $6 - in cash. It will also guarantee a $150
million bank loan.
In the last few years, most firms that specialize in
leveraged buyouts - the use of junk bonds, bank loans and
other borrowings to buy or take big stakes in companies -
have been largely inactive. Falling stock prices have made
managements reluctant to sell cheaply. Companies that are
for sale have tangled finances or face a cash squeeze.
Texas Pacific is different. "This is a terrific environment
for them," said Stephen Schwarzman, chief executive of the
Blackstone Group, which also specializes in buyouts.
Mark Attanasio, a managing director at Trust Company of the
West, which has invested with Texas Pacific, said: "Most
other buyout firms want to buy companies that are growing.
You don't see many guys wanting to take on operational
fixes."
Like most other buyout firms, Texas Pacific tries to keep
its inner workings private: its partners rarely grant
interviews and its Web site is perpetually under
construction. Mr. Bonderman, Mr. Coulter and William Price,
the third founding partner, declined to be interviewed for
this article.
Mr. Bonderman, 59, is known for his rumpled shirts and
bright, patterned socks. "He likes argyle socks, and they
tend to fall down around his ankles," said Henry Miller, an
investment banker who advises troubled companies. Early in
his career, when he was a Washington lawyer, Mr. Bonderman
argued a case in court wearing a brown velvet suit.
When a Texas Pacific deal is being negotiated, he is known
for obsessively staying in touch, even when he is trekking
in places like Pakistan, Nepal and, most recently, Bhutan.
"Whenever I see a long, unfamiliar phone number pop up on
my caller I.D., I know it's David calling," said one
investment banker who often works with Mr. Bonderman.
Mr. Bonderman made his reputation in the 1980's as the
chief investment officer for Robert Bass, the Texas oilman.
Mr. Bonderman enriched Mr. Bass a second time by making
early bets in industries like cable television and taking
stakes in troubled companies like American Savings & Loan,
which had been seized by the government. Over nearly a
decade, Mr. Bonderman's picks earned an average annual
return of 63 percent for Mr. Bass.
In 1993, Mr. Bonderman struck out on his own with Mr.
Coulter, a former Lehman Brothers banker who had also
worked for Mr. Bass. They teamed up later that year with
Mr. Price, a veteran of GE Capital Capital and Bain &
Company, a consulting firm, to form Texas Pacific.
The three men have complementary skills, investment bankers
and other deal makers said. Mr. Bonderman is the master
strategist and Mr. Coulter is good at structuring deals and
the detailed management of the firm's purchases. Mr. Price
often recruits managers and advises on operational issues.
"David is very much the optimist, very much the deal
maker," said Greg Brenneman, a former president of
Continental. "Jim is very much a counterbalance to David.
He will sit back and ask the tough questions. He will
approach investments a little bit more skeptically than
David does."
By the end of the 1990's, Texas Pacific was well
established in deal making. It easily raised $4.5 billion
from pension funds and other investors in early 2000. To
celebrate their war chest, the firm's partners rented San
Francisco's City Hall and hired the B-52's to play at a
party.
But as the stock market began to tumble, Texas Pacific
hesitated. For a 17-month stretch, the partners made no
deals. They checked out some of the biggest corporate
blowups, including Adelphia, Xerox and Global Crossing, but
stayed away, finding the prices and the quality of the
businesses untenable.
Instead, Texas Pacific began to hastily exit some existing
investments, taking more than $2 billion in profits during
that stretch.
"They started to cash out early in the cycle," said Mario
Giannini, chief executive of Hamilton Lane, a money
management firm, some of whose clients are Texas Pacific
investors.
The good times of the late 1990's were not ideal for Texas
Pacific - it struggled to find downtrodden companies that
needed its help.
But Texas Pacific did manage to spot a few diamonds in the
rough. It revived Oxford Health Plans, the health
maintenance organization that nearly collapsed in the
mid-1990's, almost doubling its money after bringing in new
managers and upgrading computer systems. In 1996, it made a
$280 million investment in Ducati Motor, the Italian
motorcycle maker, whose profits have since more than
quadrupled.
But Texas Pacific also stumbled, usually when it bought at
the top of the market. Texas Pacific's $560 million
investment in the J. Crew Group, the clothing retailer, for
which it paid a steep price of 10 times cash flow in 1997,
has been a disappointment. So has its 1999 purchase of
Bally, the shoe maker, which has suffered from lower demand
for luxury goods.
Texas Pacific also lost more than $100 million on Zilog, a
semiconductor company, and Favorite Brands, a candy maker,
both of which filed for bankruptcy.
Some of these investments have taken a toll on the firm's
performance. Texas Pacific is still selling off holdings in
two investment funds it raised over the last decade. The
first fund, a $720 million portfolio raised in 1993 and
including investments made through March 1997, should
return more than 40 percent, according to one Texas Pacific
investor. But its second fund - $2.5 billion raised in 1997
- could return less than half that, this investor
estimated, since the firm had less time to take profits on
these investments before the stock market sank.
But because Texas Pacific has not sold many of its holdings
in the second fund, profits on these investments could
rebound. It is hoping, for example, that with new
management in place, J. Crew will turn around as the
economy rebounds. In any case, one competitor said, "their
returns look pretty good when you consider that some other
funds won't return any capital" to investors.
But with the weak economy throwing many companies into
trouble, Texas Pacific seems poised to repeat its earlier
success, the investor said. "They should do exceptionally
well," he said.
Texas Pacific has a distinct style - if not formula. It
relies on talented, self-sufficient managers to restructure
troubled companies, preferring to remain hands-off, except
for surveillance from the boardroom. When necessary, it
replaces managers.
Less than a year after Continental emerged from bankruptcy,
for example, Mr. Bonderman watched with frustration as his
old friend Robert R. Ferguson, the chief executive, led it
to the edge of another trip to bankruptcy court.
Continental's board, where Mr. Bonderman was chairman, then
brought in Gordon M. Bethune, an executive at Boeing, and
in October 1994 he replaced Mr. Ferguson as chief
executive. Mr. Bethune quickly did a top-to-bottom overhaul
of the company and is now considered a great turnaround
artist of the industry.
"The biggest conflict I've ever seen was with Bob
Ferguson," said Clark Onstad, a former general counsel for
the Federal Aviation Administration, in describing the
thinking of Mr. Bonderman, whom he has known since the 1982
Braniff bankruptcy. "He chose Bethune over his longtime
friend Ferguson because he thought Bethune would do a
better job."
At America West, Texas Pacific initiated an even more
extensive management overhaul. This time, the charge was
led by Mr. Coulter and Mr. Schifter, both directors.
W. Douglas Parker, the current chief executive, flew to Mr.
Coulter's home in San Francisco to interview for the job of
chief financial officer. They talked for hours, and Mr.
Parker said the two men quickly realized they had "somewhat
kindred spirits."
The board replaced most senior managers at America West,
except William Franke, the chief executive, who stepped
down last September. His restructuring plan had made the
airline profitable a year and a half before it emerged from
bankruptcy in August 1994.
Texas Pacific owns just 3 percent of America West, worth
about $33.7 million. But those are controlling shares, and
the group holds more than 50 percent of the votes.
"These are not passive investors, nor am I," said Donald L.
Sturm, a Denver businessman who serves on Continental's
board with Mr. Bonderman and Mr. Price. "You're active.
Your money is at stake. Your reputation is at stake."
After overseeing managers who worked successfully with
unions at Continental and America West, Texas Pacific has a
good reputation with labor. That was one reason US Airways
was interested in a Texas Pacific investment, said Chris
Chiames, a spokesman for the airline.
Mr. Siegel wanted an investor who would "be as labor
friendly as possible," Mr. Chiames said. But US Airways can
still entertain other bids this fall, and Marvin Davis, the
billionaire investor from Los Angeles, has expressed
interest.
Texas Pacific's investment in Burger King, made with
Goldman, Sachs and Bain Capital, was announced after two
years of discussions among Texas Pacific's partners and the
chain's franchisees - even before the company, which had
been owned by Diageo, the liquor company, was put up for
sale, said Julian Josephson, chairman of the National
Franchisee Association, which represents most Burger King
franchisees.
"We liked what they had to say about the human component of
the businesses they buy," Mr. Josephson said. Many other
owners, he added, "are dismissive of labor."
At Burger King, Texas Pacific will also be working with an
executive it knows. Burger King's chief executive is John
Dasburg, the former chief executive of Northwest Airlines,
who met Mr. Bonderman and his partners when Northwest
bought out their stake in Continental in 1998.
Unlike most buyout firms, Texas Pacific remains enamored
with the technology industry, despite the failure of so
many start-ups the last two years. It has focused on the
semiconductor industry, which like the airline industry is
highly cyclical. So far, though, results have been mixed.
The firm's 1996 acquisition of the Paradyne Corporation,
which makes equipment for high-speed Internet connections,
has been a huge success. Texas Pacific split it in two and
took both parts public in the late 1990's, selling most of
its stakes for 23 times its investment. But a much larger
investment, its $400 million acquisition of Zilog, the chip
maker, in 1998, was made just before the economic crisis in
Asia caused chip prices to plummet. Zilog filed for
bankruptcy last year.
Texas Pacific is still hoping for a turnaround at a third
company, ON Semiconductor, which it acquired for $1.6
billion three years ago. It invested $100 million more last
year.
Its latest gamble on the industry, the $6 deal for MEMC,
may prove the most lucrative. The cost of mailing the
payment to E.On, based in D�sseldorf, Germany, was actually
more than the acquisition, one executive close to the deal
said.
Texas Pacific, and its partners in the deal, Trust Company
of the West and Leonard Green & Partners, agreed to
guarantee a $150 million revolving line of credit. Texas
Pacific also assumed $900 million worth of debt, most of
which it swapped for more stock in the company.
"They did a good job of timing the acquisition," said
Nabeel Gareeb, the company's chief executive, who noted
that in the last quarter MEMC reported its first profit
since the fourth quarter of 2000.
But Texas Pacific's interest in airlines is clearly
sizable. Besides its involvement in Continental, America
West and US Airways, the company plans to buy Gate Gourmet,
the catering business of the bankrupt Swissair Group.
Two years ago, Texas Pacific started a Web-based discount
ticket service called Hotwire. It put up most of the $75
million in seed money, then persuaded six airlines to
invest with it, said Karl Peterson, the chief executive.
Hotwire, instead of asking consumers to bid on tickets, as
Priceline does, shows the cheapest ticket on its Web site
but does not reveal the exact flight and travel time until
after the sale.
The contraction of the new economy has undoubtedly hurt
Hotwire, which is privately owned. Mr. Peterson said that
the company was still unprofitable but that Texas Pacific
remains committed to it.
Last spring, Mr. Peterson met Mr. Bonderman in Aspen to
talk about Hotwire and to go snowboarding. Mr. Bonderman
seemed perfectly willing to accompany Hotwire down the
steep Internet chute. But he does have his limits on risk,
Mr. Peterson discovered. Before going down the mountain,
Mr. Bonderman strapped on a helmet. �
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/08/25/business/yourmoney/25TEXA.html?ex=1031278887&ei=1&en=05fca479b8bcee6b
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My source: RE: A biblical digression
Remember I didn't say it was necessarily a good source, just that it
looked good.
The site was http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_10c7.htm
My memory of what they said was accurate. I do not have the competence
to defend what they said. James Tauber's response indicates a breadth
of knowledge I can't match.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: James Tauber [mailto:jtauber@jtauber.com]
> Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2002 9:51 AM
> To: johnhall@evergo.net; fork@spamassassin.taint.org
> Subject: Re: A biblical digression
>
> On Sat, 24 Aug 2002 11:07:00 -0700, "John Hall" <johnhall@evergo.net>
> said:
> > Ran across a site which claimed to explain the original meaning of
the
> > Ten Commandments. It seems some of those meanings have evolved a
bit,
> > too.
>
> By "meanings have evolved" do you [or they] mean that the Hebrew words
> have changed meaning or that our understanding of the Hebrew words
have
> changed? Or do they posit a pre-Mosaic form of the laws that had
> evolved by time of the Pentateuch?
>
> > In particular, there was a claim that the commandment on stealing
was
> > actually specifically about 'man stealing -- selling a free man into
> > slavery.
>
> This seems bogus to me. A quick check of the text indicates the the
> Hebrew word in question is GANAV which elsewhere in the Pentateuch (eg
> Gen 44.8) is used to mean steal silver and gold amongst other things.
>
> In July 1999, I made the following comment in response to a similar
> claim about the "real" meaning of one of the ten commandments:
>
> """
> > The translations since cause problems at each successive remove
>
> We have the original language versions, though, so this is not an
> issue.
>
> > I'm sure most everyone is familiar with the argument that the
meaning of
> the commandment
> > is 'thou shalt not murder' rather than 'kill,'
>
> This has nothing to do with successive translations. It is based on
our
> knowledge of the meaning of the Hebrew word "ratsach". Most modern
> translations I've seen translate it "murder" but elsewhere the word is
> used
> of an animal killing a human (something for which most English
speakers
> wouldn't use the word "murder").
> """
> - http://www.xent.com/FoRK-archive/july99/0163.html
>
>
>
> James
> --
> James Tauber
> jtauber@jtauber.com
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| 0 |
Re: A biblical digression
On Sat, 24 Aug 2002 11:07:00 -0700, "John Hall" <johnhall@evergo.net>
said:
> Ran across a site which claimed to explain the original meaning of the
> Ten Commandments. It seems some of those meanings have evolved a bit,
> too.
By "meanings have evolved" do you [or they] mean that the Hebrew words
have changed meaning or that our understanding of the Hebrew words have
changed? Or do they posit a pre-Mosaic form of the laws that had
evolved by time of the Pentateuch?
> In particular, there was a claim that the commandment on stealing was
> actually specifically about 'man stealing -- selling a free man into
> slavery.
This seems bogus to me. A quick check of the text indicates the the
Hebrew word in question is GANAV which elsewhere in the Pentateuch (eg
Gen 44.8) is used to mean steal silver and gold amongst other things.
In July 1999, I made the following comment in response to a similar
claim about the "real" meaning of one of the ten commandments:
"""
> The translations since cause problems at each successive remove
We have the original language versions, though, so this is not an
issue.
> I'm sure most everyone is familiar with the argument that the meaning of the commandment
> is 'thou shalt not murder' rather than 'kill,'
This has nothing to do with successive translations. It is based on our
knowledge of the meaning of the Hebrew word "ratsach". Most modern
translations I've seen translate it "murder" but elsewhere the word is
used
of an animal killing a human (something for which most English speakers
wouldn't use the word "murder").
"""
- http://www.xent.com/FoRK-archive/july99/0163.html
James
--
James Tauber
jtauber@jtauber.com
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TGE: Thugs of South Boston and The Revenge of the Bandit Princess
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Thugs of South Boston and The Revenge of the Bandit Princess
The Geodesic Economy
Robert A. Hettinga
Sunday, August 25, 2002
(BOSTON) When you think about it one way, the FBI/Winter Hill vs.
Patriarcha/Angiulo Cosa Nostra fight was just another race war
between thugs.
Put crudely, and at its most racist, the FBI and the Winter Hill Gang
were the (mostly) Irish thugs, and Patriarcha's "family" were, of
course, the (mostly) Italian thugs.
Think Scorsese's upcoming "Gangs of New York", only with
counter-reformatory overtones. Hoover's South Boston "social-club"
putsch, starting in the mid 1960's, was particularly audacious in
hindsight. The U.S. Federal Government actually decided to underwrite
a reversal of the prohibition-era capture of the nation's rackets by
the Italians from the Irish. The fact that the plot was hatched not
for New York, but for South Boston, the most Irish place in the US,
only makes even more gigantic the Big Lie that was told by the FBI to
its ostensible political masters about bringing down organized crime
there once and for all.
The result, as we all found out, wasn't swapping the heroin of
Italian Boston mob violence for Irish methadone. Hoover was,
posthumously, swapping it for Oxycontin, or crystal methamphetamine
- -- or, more properly, PCP. The absolute psychopathology of violence
in Whitey Bulger's crack-cocaine-era reign of Boston's drug markets,
like the identical FBI-sponsored reigns or violent horror by other
also-rans in cities across the US as a whole, went up whole orders of
magnitude, not mere percentage points.
As Stalin said once, quantity has a quality all it's own. And, make
no mistake, J. Edgar Hoover was directly responsible that "quality"
of carnage, nation-wide.
So, yes, on paper at least, it really *was* just the swapping of one
gang of racist thugs for another, and the result was, on paper, at
least, business as usual. Same stuff, different century, with
apparently decent people like Mr. Salvati et.al accidently ground on
the gears of "justice" like so much hamburger.
However, to be much more macabre about it, that hamburger was
"greasing", if you will, an auto de fe only a homicidal lunatic could
love: a perfectly functioning market, legislated out of existence --
on paper, if nowhere else -- by government fiat and the, back-door,
but still elitist, will to power of H.L. Mencken's famous "bluenoses
and busybodies".
It all starts, like all true evil does, from the most innocent of
beginnings. What she couldn't do to alcohol, teatotaling Mrs. Grundy
then tried to do to anything else she could think of that had a
smaller, "manageable" demand. The bloody result was, like nine more
heads of the hydra, an increasingly ubiquitous universal prohibition,
in more markets, and for more things, as the 20th century wore on.
Every time some recreational drug was found to be addictive, or
harmful, or physically distasteful, or carcinogenic -- or, now,
apparently, fattening -- and then prohibited, exactly the same thing
happened to its markets that happened to alcohol during the Volstead
years. A *larger* market than before the prohibition. Hugely
lucrative profits for anyone with the moral stomach to violently
scale newly-legislated "barriers to competition" imposed on them by
the state. Increasingly violent attacks by the government on users of
those substances. And, finally, the ultimate in evil -- the kind of
evil this country actually fought wars to end -- increasingly
coercive axe-handle beatings, by our own government, of the sacred
liberty of the average, but now unavoidably-law-breaking, citizenry.
As Ayn Rand cynically observed a long time ago, you don't need
government if nobody's breaking the law. In some twisted corollary to
Parkinson's Law, governments, to survive, *need* more people,
breaking more laws, or they can never justify the money they
confiscate at tax time.
And, to bring us back to the point, David Friedman would probably
echo here his father Milton's famous observation that government
regulations only benefit the regulated sellers in a given market, and
never the consumer, much less the economy as a whole. Even,
*especially*, if those sellers are *breaking* the law, as they are in
the increasingly ubiquitous prohibition of risky behavior that our
government now imposes on us.
And there, absent the apparent grace of Mr. Hoover, went Mr. Salvati.
In fact, Hayek himself, in "The Road to Serfdom", couldn't have
predicted any better the gory consequences of Hoover's blatant
imposition, "for our own good", of Vietnam-era statist power at the
neighborhood level. And, furthermore, *Stalin* couldn't have had
better "useful idiots" than Hoover did -- and neither, by an
absolutely literal extension, did Whitey Bulger after Hoover.
Useful idiots on both sides of the congressional aisle. Idiots who
were eating out of Hoover's power-craven hand for the entire middle
of the 20th century -- and Whitey Bulger's hand, whether they knew it
or not, until the end of the millennium. A time, you'll notice, which
saw the increasingly steady imposition of "mob" violence, and market
control, from both state and illegal interests, way beyond the
imaginings of even the most power-mad, rum-running, stock-kiting,
movie-flopping, bureau-pumping, Nazi-appeasing Irish-Bostonian Little
Caesar. Or, as for that matter, his safely trust-funded, and now
strictly political, descendents.
In terms of actual financial economics, think of what happened to Mr.
Salvati and the others, dead or alive, as a "transfer-price", in
human lives, of the inevitable consequence of MacNamara-style
Vietnam-era Keynesian "social-cost" input-output accounting at its
most despicable, and you can almost begin to fathom the atrocity that
was committed by Hoover, and his co-religionists in state economic
control, in the name of what really was, as you'll now agree, just a
race war between thugs up in Boston.
This shouldn't be a surprise, really. All race wars are at least
fought by thugs, though they're usually conceived elsewhere, and
endorsed, at the time, by all the "right" people, for all the "right"
reasons.
As far as the FBI itself goes, remember Mancur Olson's observation
that a "prince" is just a stationary bandit.
Though, given his penchant for women's clothing, for other men, and,
what's actually obscene, for violently hypocritical treatment of
people of his own affectional preference, I suppose we can call J.
Edgar Hoover a bandit "princess", instead.
"Bandit Queen", of course, would be a grievous insult to queens --
and real bandits -- everywhere.
Cheers,
RAH
- ---------
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/08/25/national/25FBI.html?todaysheadlines=
&pagewanted=print&position=top
The New York Times
August 25, 2002
Hoover's F.B.I. and the Mafia: Case of Bad Bedfellows Grows By FOX
BUTTERFIELD
BOSTON, Aug. 24 - It was March 1965, in the early days of J. Edgar
Hoover's war against the Mafia. F.B.I. agents, say Congressional
investigators, eavesdropped on a conversation in the headquarters of
New England's organized-crime boss, Raymond Patriarca.
Two gangsters, Joseph Barboza and Vincent Flemmi, wanted Mr.
Patriarca's permission to kill a small-time hoodlum, Edward Deegan,
"as they were having a problem with him," according to an F.B.I. log
of the conversation. "Patriarca ultimately furnished this O.K.," the
F.B.I. reported, and three days later Mr. Deegan turned up dead in an
alley, shot six times.
It was an extraordinary situation: The Federal Bureau of
Investigation had evidence ahead of time that two well-known
gangsters were planning a murder and that the head of the New England
Mafia was involved.
But when indictments in the case were handed down in 1967, the real
killers - who also happened to be informers for the F.B.I. - were
left alone. Four other men were tried, convicted and sentenced to
death or life in prison for the murder, though they had had nothing
to do with it.
One, Joseph Salvati, who spent 30 years in prison, filed notice with
the Justice Department last week that he planned to sue the F.B.I.
for $300 million for false imprisonment.
His is the latest in a series of lawsuits against the F.B.I., the
Justice Department and some F.B.I. agents growing out of the tangled,
corrupt collaboration between gangsters and the F.B.I.'s Boston
office in its effort to bring down the mob.
The lawsuits are based on evidence uncovered in the last five years
in a judicial hearing and a Justice Department inquiry. But some of
the most explosive evidence has only recently come to light,
including documents detailing conversation in which Mr. Patriarca
approved the murder. They were released as part of an investigation
by the House Committee on Government Reform, which has pressured the
department into turning over records about the F.B.I in Boston.
The documents show that officials at F.B.I. headquarters, apparently
including Mr. Hoover, knew as long ago as 1965 that Boston agents
were employing killers and gang leaders as informers and were
protecting them from prosecution.
"J. Edgar Hoover crossed over the line and became a criminal
himself," said Vincent Garo, Mr. Salvati's lawyer. "He allowed a
witness to lie to put an innocent man in prison so he could protect
one of his informants."
Mr. Barboza was a crucial witness at trial against Mr. Salvati and
may have implicated him because Mr. Salvati owed $400 to a loan shark
who worked for Mr. Barboza.
Asked about the documents showing that Mr. Hoover knew of Mr.
Salvati's innocence when he was put on trial, Gail Marcinkiewicz, a
spokeswoman for the F.B.I. in Boston, declined to comment, citing the
pending litigation.
A Justice Department task force is continuing to investigate
misconduct in the Boston office. In one of the first results of the
investigation, one retired agent, John J. Connolly, is awaiting
sentencing next month after being convicted of racketeering and
obstruction of justice for helping two other mob leaders who were
F.B.I. informers, James Bulger and Stephen Flemmi. Vincent and
Stephen Flemmi are brothers.
The Government Reform Committee, led by Representative Dan Burton,
Republican of Indiana, has uncovered memorandums from the Boston
office to headquarters in Washington revealing the bureau's knowledge
that Vincent Flemmi and Mr. Barboza were involved in killing Mr.
Deegan. A memorandum a week after the killing described the crime,
including who fired the first shot.
Then, on June 4, 1965, Mr. Hoover's office demanded to know what
progress was being made in developing Vincent Flemmi as an informer.
In a reply five days later, the special agent in charge of the Boston
office said that Mr. Flemmi was in a hospital recovering from gunshot
wounds but because of his connections to Mr. Patriarca "potentially
could be an excellent informant."
The agent also informed Mr. Hoover that Mr. Flemmi was known to have
killed seven men, "and, from all indications, he is going to continue
to commit murder." Nevertheless, the agent said, "the informant's
potential outweighs the risk involved."
A Congressional investigator called the exchange chilling. "The most
frightening part is that after being warned about Flemmi's murders,
the director does not even respond," the investigator said. "There is
no message not to use a murderer as a government informant."
The origin of the corruption scandal was public and political
pressure on Mr. Hoover to move more forcefully against the growing
power of the Mafia, which he had largely ignored. In Boston, F.B.I.
agents recruited Mr. Barboza and Mr. Flemmi and developed close ties
to a rival criminal organization, the Winter Hill Gang, led by Mr.
Bulger.
Both sides got what they wanted, according to the investigations and
the trial of Mr. Connolly. The F.B.I. got information that eventually
helped destroy the Patriarca and Angiulo families, which controlled
organized crime in New England. Mr. Bulger's gang was able to take
over the rackets in Boston, sell drugs and even commit murder while
the F.B.I. looked the other way.
One reason the F.B.I. may not have used its information about Mr.
Patriarca's involvement in the Deegan murder, Congressional
investigators say, is that it came from an illegal listening device
in his Providence, R.I., headquarters. The F.B.I. agent who
transcribed the conversation made it appear that the information was
coming from unnamed informants, to disguise the use of the device,
the investigators say.
Mr. Salvati, a former truck driver, now 69, had his sentence commuted
in 1997 by Gov. William F. Weld. Last year, while he was still on
parole, his murder conviction was dismissed by a Massachusetts state
judge after the Justice Department task force made public documents
suggesting his innocence.
Two of the other wrongly convicted men died in prison. Their
survivors have joined the fourth man, Peter Limone, in a $375 million
lawsuit against the Justice Department. Mr. Limone was sentenced to
die in the electric chair. His life was spared only when
Massachusetts outlawed the death penalty in 1974.
Mr. Salvati lives in a modest apartment in Boston's North End with
his wife, Marie, who visited him in prison every week during those 30
years. Each week Mr. Salvati sent her a romantic card, which she put
on the television set. It was, Mr. Garo said, all they had of each
other.
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--
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah@ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
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| 0 |
Re: My source: RE: A biblical digression
>>From what I read, the rest of it looked quite good so it does seem odd
they would make the seemingly incorrect blanket statement about the
Hebrew for "steal". One possibility is that the page is a summary of
information gathered from a variety of sources of varying qualities.
James
On Sun, 25 Aug 2002 10:17:46 -0700, "John Hall" <johnhall@evergo.net>
said:
> Remember I didn't say it was necessarily a good source, just that it
> looked good.
>
> The site was http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_10c7.htm
>
> My memory of what they said was accurate. I do not have the competence
> to defend what they said. James Tauber's response indicates a breadth
> of knowledge I can't match.
--
James Tauber
jtauber@jtauber.com
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| 0 |
Computational Recreations
Does anyone here know if the Computational Recreations columns from
Scientific American in the 70's/80's were compiled into a book or two? I
think I remember Martin Gardner publishing the earlier Mathematical
Recreations in a couple of hard covers, but I'm unsure about the later
column. Help?
...Ross...
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| 0 |
Re: The GOv gets tough on Net Users.....er Pirates..
Hire a really talented skywriter to doodle nudie pics in the sky and see
if they figure out what to charge you with. Exactly how far into the sky
does the border of your local district reach?
> > If the creator didnt say you could have it without paying, it's theft,
> > so simple, hell that's even in all the major holy books.
>
> Wow, I've got a great idea! I'll hire a skywriter to write "you can't
> look at this without paying," then lock up everybody who looked at it
> and didn't pay! It can't fail -- Jesus is on my side!
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| 0 |
Re: Computational Recreations
On 26 Aug 2002, RossO wrote:
--]Does anyone here know if the Computational Recreations columns from
--]Scientific American in the 70's/80's were compiled into a book or two? I
--]think I remember Martin Gardner publishing the earlier Mathematical
--]Recreations in a couple of hard covers, but I'm unsure about the later
--]column. Help?
--]
Not sure about MG, though I know pretty much everything he penned got into
print at one time or another. SA needs to do what National Geo did and
put out thier back issues on CD.
Post MG in the 80's there were the colums by A K Dewdney that I dug a
bunch put into a book called Turing Omnibus and then there is , of
course, all the goodens put out by Dougy Hoffstadler.
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| 0 |
Re: "Ouch. Ouch. Ouch. Ouch. Ouch...."(was Re: My brain hurts)
R. A. Hettinga wrote:
> And then there was the one from Prairie Home Companion:
>
> Q. Why is a viola larger than a violin?
> A. It just looks that way because a violin player's head is bigger.
Suggested variation:
Q. Why does the concertmaster play a smaller violin
than the rest of the violinists?
A. It just looks that way because his head is bigger.
&c&c&c
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Re: The GOv gets tough on Net Users.....er Pirates..
Adam L. Beberg wrote:
> Fair use needs to be clarified a bit
That's an understatement!!!
> How else do i ever have hope of finding a job working for someone
> that makes things people are supposed to ... *drumroll* pay for.
Well, you could damn well get a fucking better attitude.
I practically handed you a job the other week and you
pissed all over me. I'm done helping you. You have joined
a very exclusive club that up to now has only had my sister
as a member.
- Joe
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| 0 |
How unlucky can you get?
So, last night around 5:30AM I'm woken up by a loud *craaack*, followed by
one of the most dreaded sounds a homeowner ever hears: vast quantities of
water spilling onto the floor. The water is coming from the bathroom, the
toilet specifically. Turns out the water cistern on the top of the toilet
had cracked down the side, and was spilling out all the water.
So, after shutting off the water and mopping up, I was left to ponder what
are the odds of having mechanical failure of a large rectangular porcelain
bowl, in the absence of any visible stressors (like someone striking it with
a sledgehammer)? We hadn't done anything unusual to the toilet in the recent
past -- just normal use. I've *never* heard of this happening to anyone I
know. The guts, yeah, they fail all the time. But the storage bowl -- never.
Geesh.
- Jim
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| 0 |
Re: How unlucky can you get?
On Mon, 26 Aug 2002, Jim Whitehead wrote:
--]a sledgehammer)? We hadn't done anything unusual to the toilet in the recent
--]past -- just normal use. I've *never* heard of this happening to anyone I
--]know. The guts, yeah, they fail all the time. But the storage bowl -- never.
--]
Do you have any Tesla nuts inthe hood? Them hooligans and thier beams..
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| 0 |
Re: The GOv gets tough on Net Users.....er Pirates..
At 01:12 AM 8/24/02 -0700, Adam L. Beberg wrote:
>If the creator didnt say you could have it without paying, it's theft, so
>simple, hell that's even in all the major holy books.
In which world are we talking about? That may be true for the first sale,
but once something is out in the world, the "creator" loses control... If I
buy a chair you built, and then decide to give it away to my neighbor, by
you're definition, he just stole from you.
>Fair use needs to be clarified a bit and then I hope they start locking
>people up. How else do i ever have hope of finding a job working for someone
>that makes things people are supposed to ... *drumroll* pay for.
Why is it that people don't understand that giving stuff away is a
perfectly acceptable tactic in capitalist businesses? In many places, it's
called "advertising": "buy one, get one free", "free shipping on any order
over $25", "buy this couch, and get a coffee table for free", "free popcorn
with any movie rental", "free doorprize to the first 100 people who enter",
"the author will be signing books (for free) at such and such bookstore".
Access to free stuff often helps to sell other stuff. Just because you
(and the entertainment industry, it seems) can't be creative enough to come
up with a business model to leverage free stuff into paid stuff... don't
take it out on the rest of us.
Mike
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| 0 |
Re: The GOv gets tough on Net Users.....er Pirates..
On Mon, 2002-08-26 at 11:41, Mike Masnick wrote:
>
> In which world are we talking about? That may be true for the first sale,
> but once something is out in the world, the "creator" loses control... If I
> buy a chair you built, and then decide to give it away to my neighbor, by
> you're definition, he just stole from you.
There are specific statutory exemptions to the "first sale" principle of
fair use in the US. For example, audio recordings have such an
exemption (dating from the early '80s IIRC), which is why you can't
(legally) be in the business of renting audio CDs; the creators can
control what you do with it after they've sold it to you. Certain
industries would like to extend similar exemptions to other products --
there is no theoretical limit to what Congress could revoke such
privileges on.
> Access to free stuff often helps to sell other stuff. Just because you
> (and the entertainment industry, it seems) can't be creative enough to come
> up with a business model to leverage free stuff into paid stuff... don't
> take it out on the rest of us.
The problem with the entertainment industry is that they engage in
business and pricing tactics that make anything Microsoft was ever
accused of pale in comparison. If they can't figure out how to make
money doing something, they'll actually burn money to make sure no
"industry outsider" can either for all intents and purposes; control is
more important than maximizing profit as long as they can make a
profit. They don't need your carrot, so they only engage in reasonable
business behavior when you are carrying a very large stick, and few
people swing a stick large enough. They are being chronically
"investigated" by the DoJ for anti-trust, collusion, and similar
activities, but that is mostly just for show.
Which isn't to say that the entertainment industry won't fall victim to
its own stupidity, but their ability to do arbitrary and capricious
price manipulation with impunity is going to make it a slow decline.
-James Rogers
jamesr@best.com
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| 0 |
Re: How unlucky can you get?
Actually, this is common. I've known a couple of
people who have suffered this. Believe it or not,
you were lucky. You were home, rather than on
vacation, and so you didn't have the intake line
flowing onto the floor for two weeks.
Now, don't you feel better?
_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
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| 0 |
Re: The Curse of India's Socialism
I think that this and other articles confuse Socialism with
Bureaucracy. Libertarianism as implemented in North America is not
exactly the shining pinnacle of economic efficiency.
Just try starting a telephone company in the US or (even worse)
Canada. It can take a year or more to get the blessing of our own
"Permit Rajs" at the FCC, PUC, and PTTs (or, in the decidedly more
socialist leaning Canada, Industry Canada and the CRTC).
Yet, despite all of this intense regulation and paper pushing, as
well as regulatory scrutiny by the FTC, SEC, and IRS, the
executives of Telecom Companies have managed to bilk the investment
community for what looks to be tens of billions of dollars. They
finished their routine with the a quadruple lutz -- laying off
hundreds of thousands of workers when it all came crashing down.
So.. tell me again.. how are we better off?
-Ian.
On Tuesday, August 20, 2002, at 12:09 PM, John Hall wrote:
> The Mystery of Capital: Why Capitalism Triumphs in the West and Fails
> Everywhere Else -- by Hernando De Soto
>
> Is something I'm reading now.
>
> My impression is that France is not anywhere near the "Permit Raj"
> nightmare that India is (and became). Nor has its market been closed
> like India's has.
>
> But De Soto's work is perhaps just as important or more so. He hasn't
> dealt specifically with India, but I recall examples from Peru,
> Philippines, and Egypt. In Lima, his team took over a year (I think it
> was 2) working 8 hr days to legally register a 1 person company.
> In the
> Philippines, getting legal title can take 20 years. In Egypt,
> about 80%
> of the population in Cairo lives in places where they are officially
> illegal.
>
> India hasn't been helped by its socialism. Socialism has certainly
> helped strangle the country in permits. But perhaps De Soto is right
> that the real crippling thing is keeping most of the people out of the
> legal, official property system.
>
> Putting most of the people in the property system was something
> the west
> only finished about 100 years ago, or Japan did 50 years ago. It
> wasn't
> easy, but we live in a society that doesn't even remember we did it.
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: fork-admin@xent.com [mailto:fork-admin@xent.com] On Behalf Of
> Robert
>> Harley
>> Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2002 11:24 AM
>> To: fork@spamassassin.taint.org
>> Subject: Re: The Curse of India's Socialism
>>
>> RAH quoted:
>>> Indians are not poor because there are too many of them; they are
> poor
>>> because there are too many regulations and too much government
>> intervention
>>> -- even today, a decade after reforms were begun. India's greatest
>> problems
>>> arise from a political culture guided by socialist instincts on the
> one
>>> hand and an imbedded legal obligation on the other hand.
>>
>> Nice theory and all, but s/India/France/g and the statements hold just
>> as true, yet France is #12 in the UN's HDI ranking, not #124.
>>
>>
>>> Since all parties must stand for socialism, no party espouses
>>> classical liberalism
>>
>> I'm not convinced that that classical liberalism is a good solution
>> for countries in real difficulty. See Joseph Stiglitz (Nobel for
>> Economics) on the FMI's failed remedies. Of course googling on
>> "Stiglitz FMI" only brings up links in Spanish and French. I guess
>> that variety of spin is non grata in many anglo circles.
>>
>>
>> R
>> http://xent.com/mailman/listinfo/fork
>
> http://xent.com/mailman/listinfo/fork
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RE: sprint delivers the next big thing??
thx for the thoughts gentlemen (yes as someone said i use terms loosely) -
more than cool --->
quality: snobs only care about mpixels. this is about communications. the
general public cares about speed not quality. how is akamai doing these
days? not to mention any other QOS businesses that come to mind.
implementation: point about hooking to usb, wires, etc. AGREE 100%. these
implementations are super clunky, attachable camera needs to be integrated a
la nokia model. basically useless until better handsets are released i
think.
adoption: ian brought up the 'fax' problem. brilliant thing is, this is far
more personal than faxes so can be justified more easily and marketed in
family packs etc. but yes, the usual rules apply as MMS phones have network
efx.
content: who cares about content? that no one can think of 'useful' content
is always the business persons mistake. the content is the users
communications. its anything and everything. avg person could easily send
half dozen pics to a dozen people a day. mainly humorous i'd guess. who
cares if content is trivial in nature. picture speaks a thousand words.
display: why are dig camera displays better than cell phones? does anyone
know who makes these small displays and what the trends are around them?
misc ramblings: i suppose you skeptical forkers would have said the same
thing about '1 hour photo' processing. trivial, who needs it, i get better
resultion elswhere. and yet, it had great decentralizing impact - the plant
had to be downsized and pushed to the retail operation - the digital camera,
and finally the integrated digital camera phone brings this cycle of
decentralization in photography to a logical conclusion (which will put the
photo giants to bed) and change the world in a meaningful way. also, SMS
didn't take off because its easy, it took off because it costs less. its
greatly ironic the carriers often trumpet the 'profitabilty' of their SMS
traffic over others because of its ratio of cost to bandwidth. in reality,
SMS cannibilizes the voice rev's they bought their networks to handle.
ps: it is relatively amusing that one 'low resolution' complaint dropped
just after Joe watched a CARTOON on his television..
You're right. Or at least, I don't. I saw an advert for it on TV last
night (can't miss Futurama :-) and I thought, "boy, that's dumb."
If I wanted to share pictures with someone, I'd email them to them,
where they could see them on a 1024x or 1600x display, instead of
rob
-----Original Message-----
From: Eugen Leitl [mailto:eugen@leitl.org]
Sent: Monday, August 19, 2002 1:34 AM
To: Rob Shavell
Cc: fork@spamassassin.taint.org
Subject: Re: sprint delivers the next big thing??
On Sun, 18 Aug 2002, Rob Shavell wrote:
> down in the tech world than mobile visual communications.. and yet no one
> seems to give much of a damn that right now that 2 persons can take photos
> and share them instantly across space. this is one of the biggest - and
The word "trivial" comes to mind.
> last - fundamental changes in human communications. will be as big as the
> browser.
Remote realtime streaming video is neat, but sharing pictures? You invoke
big words rather readily.
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RE: sprint delivers the next big thing??
right Mike,
i will agree to disagree but i take your comments to heart. my opinion is
only that this is one of the last frontiers of communications ('instant
show') that we cross easily (though you are right as rain on pricing). i am
mildly amused at the level of skepticism and innatention it is getting.
my premise is that the world will change in dramatic and unexpected ways
once there are a billion 'eye's' which can instantly share what they see
amongst each other. that doesn't mean that people will stop talking on
their phones, or that people will spend more time w/images than voice. just
that it is fundamental. from news to crime to privacy to dating to family
life to bloopers and practical jokes, i believe there will be an explosion
of images unleashed specifically by cell phone integrated lenses because of
their utter ubiquity that dwarfs all pictures taken in the history of
photography by orders of magnitude and in short order. and yes, changes
things 'big time'.
rgds,
rob
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Masnick [mailto:mike@techdirt.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2002 11:58 PM
To: Rob Shavell
Cc: fork@spamassassin.taint.org
Subject: RE: sprint delivers the next big thing??
Not to keep harping on this, but...
At 11:36 PM 8/20/02 -0700, Rob Shavell wrote:
>content: who cares about content? that no one can think of 'useful'
content
>is always the business persons mistake. the content is the users
>communications. its anything and everything. avg person could easily send
>half dozen pics to a dozen people a day. mainly humorous i'd guess. who
>cares if content is trivial in nature. picture speaks a thousand words.
This does nothing to answer my question. I *do* care about content. Hell,
if I could be convinced that people would send stupid pics back and forth
all day, I'd have a different opinion of this. I just am not convinced
that they will (stupid or not).
While a picture may be worth a thousand words (and this is the same
argument the guy who works for me made), how many people do you know who
communicate by pictures? Sure, it sounds nice to say that a picture is
such an efficient messaging mechanism, but how often do you actually find
yourself drawing someone a picture to explain something?
I don't buy it.
For most messages, text works fine and is the most efficient
mechanism. For some messages, pictures do the job, but I would say not
nearly as often as words. Why do you think Pictionary and Charades and
such are games? Because images are usually not the most efficient way to
get a message across.
>misc ramblings: i suppose you skeptical forkers would have said the same
>thing about '1 hour photo' processing. trivial, who needs it, i get better
>resultion elswhere. and yet, it had great decentralizing impact - the
plant
>had to be downsized and pushed to the retail operation - the digital
camera,
>and finally the integrated digital camera phone brings this cycle of
>decentralization in photography to a logical conclusion (which will put the
>photo giants to bed) and change the world in a meaningful way. also, SMS
>didn't take off because its easy, it took off because it costs less. its
>greatly ironic the carriers often trumpet the 'profitabilty' of their SMS
>traffic over others because of its ratio of cost to bandwidth. in reality,
>SMS cannibilizes the voice rev's they bought their networks to handle.
Again, this is the same argument my colleague made (along with "you just
don't understand kids today, and they'll run with this"). I wasn't saying
that MMS wouldn't take off because it wasn't high quality or that it wasn't
easy. I was saying that I couldn't see why people would use it in a way
that "changed the face of communications".
I'm looking for the compelling reason (even if it's a stupid one) why
people would want to do this. Sure, if they integrate cameras into the
phone, and the quality improves (even only marginally) I can certainly see
people taking pictures with their cameras and occasionally sending them to
other people. But, mostly, I don't see what the benefit is to this over
sending them to someone's email address, or putting together an online (or
offline) photoalbum.
I don't think 1 hour photos are trivial. People want to see their own pics
right away, and the quality is plenty good enough for snapshots. That's
one of the main reasons why digital cameras are catching on. The instant
view part. I'm guessing your argument is that people not only want
"instant view", but also "instant show". Which is what this service
offers. I'm not convinced that most people want "instant show". I think
people like to package their pictures and show them. That's why people put
together fancy albums, and sit there and force you to go through them while
they explain every picture. Sure, occasionally "instant show" is nice, but
it's just "nice" on occasion. I still can't see how it becomes a integral
messaging method.
What's the specific benefit of taking a picture and immediately sending it
from one phone to another? There has to be *some* benefit, even if it's
silly if people are going to flock to it.
I'm searching... no one has given me a straight answer yet.
The *only* really intriguing idea I've heard about things like MMS lately
are Dan Gillmor's assertion that one day in the near future some news event
will happen, and a bunch of people will snap pictures with their mobile
phones, from all different angles, and those photos tell the real story of
what happened - before the press even gets there.
Willing to be proven wrong,
Mike
PS If the wireless carriers continue to price these services as stupidly as
they currently are, then MMS is *never* going to catch on.
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Re: The Curse of India's Socialism
Justin Mason writes:
>So IMO it's the corruption that's the problem; and corruption !=
>regulation, and corruption != socialism. Also, over-population is really
>a symptom of that.
Without addressing the overpopulation argument, the more bureaucracy,
the more opportunity for corruption. If a corporation is corrupt,
there are generally, absent more government intervention,
alternatives. With bureacracy that is more difficult; one generally
most uproot oneself and move.
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| 0 |
The MIME information you requested (last changed 3154 Feb 14)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
What is MIME?
MIME stands for "Multipurpose Internet Mail Extensions". It is the
standard for how to send multipart, multimedia, and binary data using the
world-wide Internet email system. Typical uses of MIME include sending
images, audio, wordprocessing documents, programs, or even plain text
files when it is important that the mail system does not modify any part
of the file. MIME also allows for labelling message parts so that a
recipient (or mail program) may determine what to do with them.
How can I read a MIME message?
Since MIME is only a few years old, there are still some mailers in use
which do not understand MIME messages. However, there are a growing
number of mail programs that have MIME support built-in. (One popular
MIME-capable mailer for Unix, VMS and PCs is Pine, developed at the
University of Washington and available via anonymous FTP from the host
ftp.cac.washington.edu in the file /pine/pine.tar.Z)
In addition, several proprietary email systems provide MIME translation
capability in their Internet gateway products. However, even if you do
not have access to a MIME-capable mailer or suitable gateway, there is
still hope!
There are a number of stand-alone programs that can interpret a MIME
message. One of the more versatile is called "munpack". It was developed
at Carnegie Mellon University and is available via anonymous FTP from the
host ftp.andrew.cmu.edu in the directory pub/mpack/. There are versions
available for Unix, PC, Mac and Amiga systems. For compabibility with
older forms of transferring binary files, the munpack program can also
decode messages in split-uuencoded format.
Does MIME replace UUENCODE?
Yes. UUENCODE has been used for some time for encoding binary files so
that they can be sent via Internet mail, but it has several technical
limitations and interoperability problems. MIME uses a more robust
encoding called "Base64" which has been carefully designed to survive the
message transformations made by certain email gateways.
How can I learn more about MIME?
The MIME Internet standard is described in RFC-1521, available via
anonymous FTP from many different Internet hosts, including:
o US East Coast
Address: ds.internic.net (198.49.45.10)
o US West Coast
Address: ftp.isi.edu (128.9.0.32)
o Pacific Rim
Address: munnari.oz.au (128.250.1.21)
o Europe
Address: nic.nordu.net (192.36.148.17)
Look for the file /rfc/rfc1521.txt
Another source of information is the Internet news group "comp.mail.mime",
which includes a periodic posting of a "Frequently Asked Questions" list.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://xent.com/mailman/listinfo/fork
| 0 |
Re: The case for spam
On Thu, 22 Aug 2002, Lucas Gonze wrote:
>
> Political mail (the snail kind) doesn't bother me. I like it a lot of the
> time, because as crap as it is at least it's not the kind of info you get
> on TV. Particularly for small time local politics, it's the best way to
> get information.
Except that thanks to the magic of spam, it's usually some else's locale
> but what matters is that mail is speech, and political email has to be as
> well protected as any other political speech. Spam is *the* tool for
> dissident news, since the face that it's unsolicited means that recipients
> can't be blamed for being on a mailing list.
A terrible argument. There are better technical solutions to privacy
protection than sending a copy of the same message to everyone on the
Internet, so the recipients can't be blamed for reading it.
Wait till phone spam is as cheap to send as email spam...
Dan
http://xent.com/mailman/listinfo/fork
| 0 |
Re: the underground software vulnerability marketplace and its
Hi Kragen,
This is an interesting analysis. I think that there are a couple
of nits I might pick (for example, I don't expect that the market will
be well developed with highest bidders for while), I think that the
most important issue, which is that end users won't be able to fix
their systems, is almost passed over. I know that you know this, and
you allude to it, but your essay is getting passed around, so you
might want to add to it bits about the sysadmin and others.
There's one other point which you don't make, which I think is very
important, which is that research into defining and addressing classes
of vulnerabilities can't happen without libraries of available
vulnerability code. I can think of three researchers into automated
methods for addressing vulnerabilities who griped, uninvited, about
the quality of the existing vulnerability sites. Doing research into
a set requires that you have enough examples, in the open, that you
can define a set, and that the set is added to from time to time so
you can make and test predictions.
I feel fairly confident in saying that without full disclosure, we
wouldn't have Stackguard, ITS4, Nissus, or snort. And the security
admin's job would be a lot harder.
Adam
On Thu, Aug 22, 2002 at 08:42:12AM +0200, Eugen Leitl wrote:
| --
| -- Eugen* Leitl <a href="http://leitl.org">leitl</a>
| ______________________________________________________________
| ICBMTO: N48 04'14.8'' E11 36'41.2'' http://eugen.leitl.org
| 83E5CA02: EDE4 7193 0833 A96B 07A7 1A88 AA58 0E89 83E5 CA02
|
|
| ---------- Forwarded message ----------
| Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 00:24:54 -0400 (EDT)
| From: Kragen Sitaker <kragen@pobox.com>
| To: fork@spamassassin.taint.org
| Subject: the underground software vulnerability marketplace and its hazards
|
| On August 7th, an entity known as "iDEFENSE" sent out an announcement,
| which is appended to this email. Briefly, "iDEFENSE", which bills
| itself as "a global security intelligence company", is offering cash
| for information about security vulnerabilities in computer software
| that are not publicly known, especially if you promise not to tell
| anyone else.
|
| If this kind of secret traffic is allowed to continue, it will pose a
| very serious threat to our computer communications infrastructure.
|
| At the moment, the dominant paradigm for computer security research
| known as "full disclosure"; people who discover security
| vulnerabilities in software tell the vendor about them, and a short
| while later --- after the vendor has had a chance to fix the problem
| --- they publish the information, including code to exploit the
| vulnerability, if possible.
|
| This method has proven far superior to the old paradigm established by
| CERT in the late 1980s, which its proponents might call "responsible
| disclosure" --- never release working exploit code, and never release
| any information on the vulnerability before all vendors have released
| a patch. This procedure often left hundreds of thousands of computers
| vulnerable to known bugs for months or years while the vendors worked
| on features, and often, even after the patches were released, people
| wouldn't apply them because they didn't know how serious the problem
| was.
|
| The underground computer criminal community would often discover and
| exploit these same holes for months or years while the "responsible
| disclosure" process kept their victims, who had no connections in the
| underground, vulnerable.
|
| The problem with this is that vulnerabilities that are widely known
| are much less dangerous, because their victims can take steps to
| reduce their potential impact --- including disabling software,
| turning off vulnerable features, filtering traffic in transit, and
| detecting and responding to intrusions. They are therefore much less
| useful to would-be intruders. Also, software companies usually see
| security vulnerabilities in their software as PR problems, and so
| prefer to delay publication (and the expense of fixing the bugs) as
| long as possible.
|
| iDEFENSE is offering a new alternative that appears far more dangerous
| than either of the two previous paradigms. They want to be a buyer in
| a marketplace for secret software vulnerability information, rewarding
| discoverers of vulnerabilities with cash.
|
| Not long before, Snosoft, a group of security researchers evidently
| including some criminal elements, apparently made an offer to sell the
| secrecy of some software vulnerability information to the software
| vendor; specifically, they apparently made a private offer to
| Hewlett-Packard to keep a vulnerability in HP's Tru64 Unix secret if
| HP retained Snosoft's "consulting services". HP considered this
| extortion and responded with legal threats, and Snosoft published the
| information.
|
| If this is allowed to happen, it will cause two problems which,
| together, add up to a catastrophe.
|
| First, secret software vulnerability information will be available to
| the highest bidder, and to nobody else. For reasons explained later,
| I think the highest bidders will generally be organized crime
| syndicates, although that will not be obvious to the sellers.
|
| Second, finding software vulnerabilities and keeping them secret will
| become lucrative for many more talented people. The result will be
| --- just as in the "responsible disclosure" days --- that the good
| guys will remain vulnerable for months and years, while the majority
| of current vulnerabilities are kept secret.
|
| I've heard it argued that the highest bidders will generally be the
| vendors of the vulnerable software, but I don't think that's
| plausible. If someone can steal $20 000 because a software bug lets
| them, the software vendor is never held liable; often, in fact, the
| people who administer the software aren't liable, either --- when
| credit card data are stolen from an e-commerce site, for example.
| Knowing about a vulnerability before anyone else might save a web-site
| administrator some time, and it might save the software vendor some
| negative PR, but it can net the thief thousands of dollars.
|
| I think the highest bidders will be those for whom early vulnerability
| information is most lucrative --- the thieves who can use it to
| execute the largest heists without getting caught. Inevitably, that
| means organized crime syndicates, although the particular gangs who
| are good at networked theft may not yet exist.
|
| There might be the occasional case where a market leader, such as
| Microsoft, could make more money by giving their competitors bad PR
| than a gang could make by theft. Think of a remote-root hole in
| Samba, for example.
|
| Right now, people who know how to find security exploits are either
| motivated by personal interest in the subject, motivated by the public
| interest, motivated by a desire for individual recognition, or
| personally know criminals that benefit from their exploits. Creating
| a marketplace in secret vulnerability information would vastly
| increase the availability of that information to the people who can
| afford to pay the most for it: spies, terrorists, and organized crime.
|
| Let's not let that happen.
|
|
|
|
| This is the original iDEFENSE announcement:
|
| From: Sunil James [mailto:SJames@iDefense.com]
| Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 12:32 PM
| Subject: Introducing iDEFENSE's Vulnerability Contributor Program
|
|
| Greetings,
|
| iDEFENSE is pleased to announce the official launch of its Vulnerability
| Contributor Program (VCP). The VCP pays contributors for the advance
| notification of vulnerabilities, exploit code and malicious code.
|
| iDEFENSE hopes you might consider contributing to the VCP. The following
| provides answers to some basic questions about the program:
|
| Q. How will it work?
| A. iDEFENSE understands the majority of security researchers do not publish
| security research for compensation; rather, it could be for any of a number
| of motivations, including the following:
|
| * Pure love of security research
| * The desire to protect against harm to targeted networks
| * The desire to urge vendors to fix their products
| * The publicity that often accompanies disclosure
|
| The VCP is for those who want to have their research made public to the
| Internet community, but who would also like to be paid for doing the
| work.The compensation will depend, among other things, on the following
| items:
|
| * The kind of information being shared (i.e. vulnerability or exploit)
| * The amount of detail and analysis provided
| * The potential severity level for the information shared
| * The types of applications, operating systems, and other
| software and hardware potentially affected
| * Verification by iDEFENSE Labs
| * The level of exclusivity, if any, for data granted to iDEFENSE
|
| Q. Who should contribute to the VCP?
| A. The VCP is open to any individual, security research group or other
| entity.
|
| Q. Why are you launching this program?
| A. Timeliness remains a key aspect in security intelligence. Contributions
| to some lists take time before publication to the public at large. More
| often, many of these services charge clients for access without paying the
| original contributor. Under the iDEFENSE program, the contributor is
| compensated, iDEFENSE Labs verifies the issue, and iDEFENSE clients and the
| public at large are warned in a timely manner.
|
| Q. Who gets the credit?
| A. The contributor is always credited for discovering the vulnerability or
| exploit information.
|
| Q. When can I contribute?
| The VCP is active. You are welcome to begin contributing today.
|
| To learn more, go to http://www.idefense.com/contributor.html. If you have
| questions or would like to sign up as a contributor to the VCP, please
| contact us at contributor@idefense.com.
|
| Regards,
|
| Sunil James
| Technical Analyst
| iDEFENSE
|
| "iDEFENSE is a global security intelligence company that proactively
| monitors sources throughout the world -- from technical vulnerabilities and
| hacker profiling to the global spread of viruses and other malicious code.
| The iALERT security intelligence service provides decision-makers, frontline
| security professionals and network administrators with timely access to
| actionable intelligence and decision support on cyber-related threats.
| iDEFENSE Labs is the research wing that verifies vulnerabilities, examines
| the behavior of exploits and other malicious code and discovers new
| software/hardware weaknesses in a controlled lab environment."
|
| http://xent.com/mailman/listinfo/fork
|
--
"It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once."
-Hume
http://xent.com/mailman/listinfo/fork
| 0 |
buffer overflows
Didn't we just have a discussion on FoRK how hard
it is nowadays to write something that's not
buffer overflow protected?
http://news.zdnet.co.uk/story/0,,t269-s2121250,00.html
Location: http://news.zdnet.co.uk/story/0,,t269-s2121250,00.html
IM client vulnerable to attack
IM client vulnerable to attack
James Pearce, ZDNet Australia
Users of messenger client Trillian are vulnerable to attack, according to
information security analyst John Hennessy.
Hennessy has published a proof-of-concept showing the latest version of
Trillian, v0.73, is vulnerable to a buffer-overflow attack that will
allow individuals with malicious intent to run any program on the
computer.
Trillion is a piece of software that allows you to connect to ICQ, AOL
Instant Messenger, MSN Messenger, Yahoo! Messenger and IRC with a single
interface, despite some companies actively avoiding messenger
interoperability.
According to Jason Ross, senior analyst at amr interactive, in June 2002
there were 28,000 home users of Trillian in Australia, about 0.4 percent
of the Internet population, and 55,000 people using it at work, about 1.8
percent of the Internet population.
David Banes, regional manager of Symantec security response, told ZDNet
Australia the code appeared to be valid.
"With these sort of things you have to find some process that would
accept a connection, then throw loads of random data at it and get it to
crash," he said. "Once it's crashed, you can try to find a way to exploit
it."
He said the proof-of-concept that was published is designed to run on
Notepad, but could be easily modified to run any program on the system.
He said the problem was easy to fix by "writing protective code around
that particular piece to more closely validate the data around that
piece."
"Because people are pushed for productivity you tend to leave out the
checks and balances you should put in, which is why we have all these
buffer overflows and exploits out there now," said Banes.
Cerulean Studios, creator of Trillian, was contacted for comment but had
not responded by the time of publication.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
For all security-related news, including updates on the latest viruses,
hacking exploits and patches, check out ZDNet UK's Security News Section.
Have your say instantly, and see what others have said. Go to the
Security forum.
Let the editors know what you think in the Mailroom.
Copyright � 2002 CNET Networks, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
ZDNET is a registered service mark of CNET Networks, Inc. ZDNET Logo is a service mark of CNET NETWORKS,
Inc.
http://xent.com/mailman/listinfo/fork
| 0 |
Re: Entrepreneurs
There's been well documented articles, studies of the
French tax laws, corporate governance, and financial
oversight that 1) dont' easily allow for ISOs, the root
of almost all entrepreneurialship, and 2) the easy flow
of capital to new ventures. It was an extremely large
issue, even debated widely in France.
Greg
Chuck Murcko wrote:
> According to my son, it was actually Homer Simpson, who claimed the
> French had no word for victory.
>
> Chuck
>
> On Thursday, August 22, 2002, at 01:58 PM, Robert Harley wrote:
>
>> An apparent quote from Dubya, from the Times (sent to me by my Dad):
>>
>> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/printFriendly/0,,1-43-351083,00.html
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> TONY BLAIR's special relationship with George W. Bush is under
>> considerable strain. Not only do the two disagree on Yassir Arafat's
>> tenure as leader of the Palestinian Authority, but Blair has started
>> telling disparaging anecdotes about the President.
>>
>> Baroness Williams of Crosby recalled a story told to her by 'my good
>> friend Tony Blair' recently in Brighton. Blair, Bush and Jacques
>> Chirac were discussing economics and, in particular, the decline of
>> the French economy. 'The problem with the French,' Bush confided in
>> Blair, 'is that they don't have a word for entrepreneur.'
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>> R
>> http://xent.com/mailman/listinfo/fork
>>
>
> http://xent.com/mailman/listinfo/fork
>
http://xent.com/mailman/listinfo/fork
| 0 |
Doom 3
Doom 3 will be based on a peer to peer architecture says
CmdrTaco quoting Ant quoting Carmack.
Greg
http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=02/08/25/1310220
DOOM 3 will use P2P System?
Posted by CmdrTaco on Sunday August
25, @09:19AM
from the
i'll-believe-it-when-I'm-fragged-on-it
dept.
Ant writes "From Page 6 of FiringSquad's
QuakeCon 2002 Postmortem article: John Carmack said
something at the end of the Q&A about how the
multiplayer will be only four players? Tim: After 2 hours of
talking up at the podium, sometimes you leave a few details
out. Doom 3 multiplayer will be fully scalable. It will be a
peer to peer system. We haven't started working on it yet.
Tell everyone not to panic - it will be fine. John just forgot
to mention it'll be scalable past four players. It's hard to
give a hard number because we haven't started working on
it yet. Right now we're focused on making Doom 3 a
kickass, over the top single player game."
http://xent.com/mailman/listinfo/fork
| 0 |
Enlightenment
I finally let go of my Irix Magic desktop and window manager
and evaluated several other window managers. Having lost my 10 years
of customization with my X10 and then X11 desktop at one point
at UCI, I promised myself that I'd never get attached to
another WM. I limped along in the default Gnome desktop, I
had a few unsuccessful stabs at the Solaris open view
desktop, but nothing really stuck. Because of this along
with SGI's love of pre-configured, pre-compiled freeware[1],
I never really made the jump from Irix to Linux either.
After installing the enlightenment WM, I have to say, I am
really enlightened. It's definitely a far cry from the no frills
first look from previous versions. It's only on version 0.17,[2]
but it's a careful balance between simplicity, performance,
(fun) features, applications, and ease of customization. The
number of themes they have on freshmeat is amazing. [3] After
less than an hour or two of "nesting" I already have almost
all my menus and controls setup just the way I want.
I definitely recommend this to any Irix desktop holdouts. It's
a great way to refresh your machine SGI without having to bite the
bullet and rebuild it as a Linux machine.
Greg
[1] http://freeware.sgi.com/
[2] http://www.enlightenment.org/
[3] http://themes.freshmeat.net/browse/60/?topic_id=60
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| 0 |
UCI Creative Writing
More articles that support my fantasy that Irvine is the
center of the universe. We've got the corner on electric
cars, fuel cells, two types of Nobel winning physics,
outside the box computer science, and lot of creative writers.
UCI's creative writing department has been in the
news a lot over the course of the last decade. Some
quotes from the article[1]:
"In 1992, Newsweek called UCI's fiction writing workshop
'the hottest writing program in the country.' Now it's
exponentially hotter, thanks only in part to Sebold's daring
and uncannily timely novel.
The novel they are talking about is Alice Sebold's "The
Lovely Bones" which is on the way to the top of the
NY Times best-sellers list. My uncle used to tease me
about UCI (being a USC graduate from '54) that nobody
knew who UC Irvine was just two states over. In fact,
I used to refer to UCI as one of the lesser known UC
schools, and when I went off to college in 1985, my
relatives told everyone I was off to Cal State Irvine.
I took a class as an undergrad by one of the department's
faculty called "the art of writing fiction". If there
was ever any two classes that helped contributed to writing
my dissertation, it was that one which taught me how to
get the writing flowing and my high school typing class
which taught me how to type really fast.
One of the advantages they cite in the article is that they
seem to take a chance on the "not-so-sure" bet, but according
to the article, the number of UCI graduates that have gone on
to write best sellers and the handful that feed the film industry
is creating a viscious cycle that lures more talent which
creates the right writing ecosystem, which churns out more
success stories which lures more talent.
Greg
[1] http://www.ocregister.com/sitearchives/2002/8/25/news/uci00825cci1.shtml
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| 0 |
Rambus, Man
This message was sent to you from http://www.idg.net
Geege would like you to read the story below:
http://www.idg.net/gomail.cgi?id=940026
Title:
A first look at the 2.8-GHz Pentium 4
Summary:
Latest Rambus memory plus fast bus appear to give Intel's newest P4 the jolt it needs.
Geege attached the following message:
------------------------------------------------------------
ha ha ha harley. rambus earns it.
------------------------------------------------------------
Stay on top of the world of Information Technology with your own
FREE subscription to our specialized newsletters. Subscribe now
at http://www.idg.net/subscribe
7132
| 0 |
Re: The Curse of India's Socialism
On Tue, 2002-08-20 at 15:01, Ian Andrew Bell wrote:
>
> Yet, despite all of this intense regulation and paper pushing, as
> well as regulatory scrutiny by the FTC, SEC, and IRS, the
> executives of Telecom Companies have managed to bilk the investment
> community for what looks to be tens of billions of dollars.
This is a good thing. Getting hammered for stupid investments is likely
to result in smarter investments in the future. Nobody is supposed to
win all the time, particularly not people who don't do due diligence.
"A fool and his money are soon parted" and all that. It isn't the job
of the FTC/SEC/IRS/etc to make sure you invest your money wisely (and I
have grave doubts that they could even if it was their job).
> They
> finished their routine with the a quadruple lutz -- laying off
> hundreds of thousands of workers when it all came crashing down.
So what? Nobody is guaranteed employment. Laying people off is not a
crime nor is it immoral. Companies don't exist to provide employment,
nor should they. The closest we have to such a thing in the US is a
Government Job, and look at the quality THAT breeds.
> So.. tell me again.. how are we better off?
Perhaps it is just a matter of personal preference, but I'd rather not
live in a "feed lot" society, thank-you-very-much.
-James Rogers
jamesr@best.com
| 0 |
Re: Entrepreneurs
On Sat, 2002-08-24 at 08:04, Gregory Alan Bolcer wrote:
> There's been well documented articles, studies of the
> French tax laws, corporate governance, and financial
> oversight that 1) dont' easily allow for ISOs, the root
> of almost all entrepreneurialship, and 2) the easy flow
> of capital to new ventures. It was an extremely large
> issue, even debated widely in France.
It is actually a lot worse than this. What it boils down to is that
only the privileged class is really allowed to start a serious company.
What I found fascinating is that the old French aristocracy effectively
still exists (literally the same families), but they now hold top
executive and management positions in the major French firms and the
government, positions which are only passed on to other blue bloods. Not
officially of course, but as a strict matter of practice. And the laws
and legal structures make sure that this system stays firmly in place.
Even for a young French blue blood, strict age hierarchies keep them
from branching out into a new venture in their own country (though many
can leverage this to start companies in OTHER countries). I know about
the French system first-hand and the executives are quite candid about
it (at least to Yanks like me who are working with them), but I suspect
this may hold true for other European countries as well.
After all those "revolutions", France is still nothing more than a
thinly veiled old-school aristocracy, with all the trappings.
-James Rogers
jamesr@best.com
| 0 |
Re: How unlucky can you get?
Jim Whitehead wrote:
> So, after shutting off the water and mopping up, I was left to ponder what
> are the odds of having mechanical failure of a large rectangular porcelain
> bowl, in the absence of any visible stressors (like someone striking it with
> a sledgehammer)? We hadn't done anything unusual to the toilet in the recent
All it takes is an overtorqued nut (e.g. at the water intake entrance)
to stress the porcelain, and you've got a time bomb waiting to go off.
Of course, if you're lucky, you'll overtorque it enough that the tank
will break right away, while you still have the water intake shut off.
- Joe
| 0 |
Re: A biblical digression
John Hall:
>Ran across a site which claimed to explain the original meaning of the
>Ten Commandments. It seems some of those meanings have evolved a bit, too.
You mean that "Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's ass" used to be
about donkeys??? Inconceivable!!!
R
| 0 |
Re: The GOv gets tough on Net Users.....er Pirates..
On Mon, 26 Aug 2002, Joseph S. Barrera III wrote:
> Adam L. Beberg wrote:
> > Fair use needs to be clarified a bit
>
> That's an understatement!!!
Yes, it is :(
> > How else do i ever have hope of finding a job working for someone
> > that makes things people are supposed to ... *drumroll* pay for.
>
> Well, you could damn well get a fucking better attitude. I practically
> handed you a job the other week and you pissed all over me. I'm done
> helping you. You have joined a very exclusive club that up to now has
> only had my sister as a member.
Forwarding me stuff from a list is hardly handing me a job. I tracked them
down, they dont exist anymore, like 99% of the things I track down the req's
are pulled or there is a freeze.
The real problem is you cant even train for jobs now, since they _demand_
7-10 years at a job paid to do the wierd collection of skills they want.
But I'll get lucky eventually and someone I know will be a hiring manager.
- Adam L. "Duncan" Beberg
http://www.mithral.com/~beberg/
beberg@mithral.com
| 0 |
Re: The GOv gets tough on Net Users.....er Pirates..
Adam L. Beberg wrote:
> Forwarding me stuff from a list is hardly handing me a job.
I was talking about the open reqs at Kana (the company I work for).
Oh, but programming in Java is beneath you.
- Joe
| 0 |
Re: Rambus, Man
On Mon, 26 Aug 2002, Geege wrote:
> Latest Rambus memory plus fast bus appear to give Intel's newest P4 the jolt it needs.
Well, Athlon FSB 333 is almost there. And I'm really looking forward to
the Hammer series.
| 0 |
Re: Rambus, Man
On Mon, 26 Aug 2002, Geege wrote:
> Summary:
> Latest Rambus memory plus fast bus appear to give Intel's newest P4 the
> jolt it needs.
>
> Geege attached the following message:
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> ha ha ha harley. rambus earns it.
> ------------------------------------------------------------
"Expect a 3 percent to 5 percent boost with PC1066"
5% faster for only 4 times [pricewatch at 7:55PM - 93 vs 379] the cost.
Gimme gimme gimme! And I better get the full 5% speedup.
And gime me that 20% faster GeForce 4600 at twice the cost of the 4200 too.
Seriously, who falls for this scam?
P.S. finished the PS2 port, it benchmarks at fp:1 int:40. a celeron 525
benches at fp:460 int:400... If it's not a polygon fill the thing is
useless. There will be no beowolf cluster of these. It is 3x faster then
the iPaq tho at 1/13 :)
- Adam L. "Duncan" Beberg
http://www.mithral.com/~beberg/
beberg@mithral.com
| 0 |
Re: The GOv gets tough on Net Users.....er Pirates..
What are you trying to sell???? What is the Value???
Example...Does Pratchett sell paper bound by glue or does he sell stories?
Question...When I buy a book have I purchased the story? When I sell the
book does any of that revenue go to mr Pratchett?
What if I read the book and give it to someone, who then reads it
and gives it to someone who then reads it and gives it to
someones....(bookcrossing.com though with more succesfull passings). Does
each reader send Mr Pratchett money?
Have Used Bookstores, Recorstores etc destroyed the system of book/record
economy?
AS to the resident sourpuss, in germany bitter may be better but here its
just plain stinkin thinkin.
-tom
| 0 |
Gecko adhesion finally sussed.
(Via Robot Wisdom) Maybe you UC folk know these people?
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2002-08/lcc-sph082202.php
Working at Lewis & Clark College, the University of California at Berkeley,
the University of California at Santa Barbara, and Stanford University,
the interdisciplinary team:
* confirmed speculation that the gecko's amazing climbing ability
depends on weak molecular attractive forces called van der Waals forces,
* rejected a competing model based on the adhesion chemistry of water
molecules, and
* discovered that the gecko's adhesive depends on geometry, not surface
chemistry. In other words, the size and shape of the tips of gecko foot
hairs--not what they are made of--determine the gecko's stickiness.
To verify its experimental and theoretical results, the gecko group then
used its new data to fabricate prototype synthetic foot-hair tips from two
different materials.
"Both artificial setal tips stuck as predicted," notes Autumn, assistant
professor of biology at Lewis & Clark College in Portland, Ore. "Our
initial prototypes open the door to manufacturing the first biologically
inspired dry, adhesive microstructures, which can have widespread
applications."
| 0 |
"A billion here, a billion there..."
> Bottom line: the late Senate Minority Leader certainly would have
> endorsed the meaning behind the phrase, but it is questionable that he
> ever coined it.
An interesting link courtesy of the Harrow Report: there's no written
evidence so far that Senator Everett Dirksen is the source of the
infamous quote attributed to him. It's kind of astounding that there is
enough general social consensus (25% of all queries makes it a *very*
FAQ) and "eyewitness" reporting without a single written source. What
the essay below doesn't seem to answer, though, is what the earliest
attributed quote in print by any other writer is. I'd naturally be much
more skeptical if the "quote" emerged after his death... RK
===============================================================
http://www.dirksencenter.org/featuresBillionHere.htm
"A billion here, a billion there . . ."
Did Dirksen ever say, " A billion here, a billion there, and pretty soon
you're talking real money"? (or anything very close to that?)
Perhaps not. Based on an exhaustive search of the paper and audio
records of The Dirksen Congressional Center, staffers there have found
no evidence that Dirksen ever uttered the phrase popularly attributed to
him.
Archivists undertook the search after studying research statistics
showing that more than 25 percent of inquiries have to do with the quote
or its variations.
Here is what they examined: all of the existing audio tapes of the famed
"Ev and Charlie" and "Ev and Jerry" shows, all newspapers clippings in
the Dirksen Papers, about 12,500 pages of Dirksen's own speech notes,
transcripts of his speeches and media appearances, transcripts of
Republican leadership press conferences, and Dirksen's statements on the
Senate floor as documented in the Congressional Record.
Although Dirksen rarely prepared the text of a speech, preferring to
rely on notes, he did employ brief phrases to remind him of a particular
turn of phrase. For example, in referring to the public debt or
excessive government spending, Dirksen would jot the word "pothole" to
remind him to tell the following story, on this occasion in reference to
the debt ceiling:
"As I think of this bill, and the fact that the more progress we make
the deeper we go into the hole, I am reminded of a group of men who were
working on a street. They had dug quite a number of holes. When they got
through, they failed to puddle or tamp the earth when it was returned to
the hole, and they had a nice little mound, which was quite a traffic
hazard.
"Not knowing what to do with it, they sat down on the curb and had a
conference. After a while, one of the fellows snapped his fingers and
said, �I have it. I know how we will get rid of that overriding earth
and remove the hazard. We will just dig the hole deeper.'"
[Congressional Record, June 16, 1965, p. 13884].
On the same occasion, Dirksen relied on yet another "spending" story,
one he labeled "cat in the well":
"One time in the House of Representatives [a colleague] told me a story
about a proposition that a teacher put to a boy. He said, �Johnny, a cat
fell in a well 100 feet deep. Suppose that cat climbed up 1 foot and
then fell back 2 feet. How long would it take the cat to get out of the
well?'
"Johnny worked assiduously with his slate and slate pencil for quite a
while, and then when the teacher came down and said, �How are you
getting along?' Johnny said, �Teacher, if you give me another slate and
a couple of slate pencils, I am pretty sure that in the next 30 minutes
I can land that cat in hell.'
"If some people get any cheer our of a $328 billion debt ceiling, I do
not find much to cheer about concerning it." [Congressional Record, June
16, 1965, p. 13884].
But there are no such reminders for the "A billion here, a billion
there . . . " tag line as there surely should have been given Dirksen's
note-making tendencies. He spoke often and passionately about the debt
ceiling, federal spending, and the growth of government. Yet there is no
authoritative reference to the "billion" phrase.
The chief evidence in support of Dirksen making the statement comes from
people who claim to have heard him. The Library of Congress, for
example, cites someone's personal observation on the campaign trail as
evidence. The Dirksen Center has received calls from people who heard
Dirksen say those words, some even providing the date of the event. But
cross-checking that information with the records has, so far, turned up
nothing in the way of confirmation.
The closest documented statement came at a joint Senate-House Republican
leadership press conference on March 8, 1962, when Dirksen said, "The
favorite sum of money is $1 billion � a billion a year for a fatter
federal payroll, a billion here, a billion there." [EMD Papers,
Republican Congressional Leadership File, f. 25] But the "and pretty
soon you're talking real money" is missing.
In another close call, the New York Times, January 23, 1961, quoted
Dirksen: "Look at education � two-and-one-half billion � a billion for
this, a billion for that, a billion for something else. Three to five
billion for public works. You haven't got any budget balance left.
You'll be deeply in the red." [Cited in Byron Hulsey's "Everett Dirksen
and the Modern Presidents," Ph.D. dissertation (May 1998, University of
Texas, p. 226]
Of course, the Dirksen Papers do not document completely the late
Senator's comments. For example, The Center that bears his name does not
have his testimony before committees. Their collection of Congressional
Records ends in 1965, omitting the last four years of Dirksen's life and
career � he might have employed the phrase only late, although witnesses
claim he said it throughout his career. Dirksen's campaign speeches
tended not to produce transcripts, only sketchy notes or abbreviated
newspaper accounts. Dirksen also held center stage before the video age,
meaning that many remarks, particularly those in campaigns, escaped
capture.
Bottom line: the late Senate Minority Leader certainly would have
endorsed the meaning behind the phrase, but it is questionable that he
ever coined it.
�
�
---
My permanent email address is khare@alumni.caltech.edu
| 0 |
Re: The MIME information you requested (last changed 3154 Feb 14)
UW Email Robot said:
> What is MIME?
I know what MIME is godammit ;)
> Since MIME is only a few years old, ...
a *few*? Time to update pine-robot-blurb.txt on
docserver.cac.washington.edu, I think.
Has anyone figured out what's up with this? Does someone out there think
that FoRK needs some MIME tutoring?
--j.
| 0 |
Re: The MIME information you requested (last changed 3154 Feb 14)
Justin Mason writes:
> Has anyone figured out what's up with this? Does someone out there
> think that FoRK needs some MIME tutoring?
I was puzzled at first, but I think I understand what happened.
First, I approved the post because it didn't appear to be spam, even
though it wasn't from a member. I thought it was odd that someone
wanted to send the MIME blurb to the list, but it was not really that
different from causing the New York Times web site to send a story to
the list. (Except that the bits here are antediluvian, but old bits are
a problem to be solved by social opporobrium, not technical constraints.)
But I think what actually happened is that some idiot got infected by
Klez and had both FoRK and the pine-robot autoresponder address in their
mailbox or addressbook, so Klez forged mail from fork@xent.com to the
autoresponder, which responded. To FoRK.
| 0 |
Re: DataPower announces XML-in-silicon
> Now, to do this, we all know they have to be cracking the strong crypto used
> on all transaction in order to process them... So this has some preaty heavy
> implications, unless it's just BS.
Anybody buying a box like this is undoubtledly going to integrate it into their
crypto infrastructure. What's the point of putting in a box like this if it's
not an active participant in your security framework?
> Or.... you could just not bloat it 20x to begin with. Nah! (that was the
> whole point of XML afterall, to sell more CPUs - much like Oracle's use of
> Java allows them to sell 3x more CPU licenses due to the performance hit)
Blah, blah, blah. The marketing FUD gets compounded by the Beberg FUD, talk
about 20x bloat.
> Again, see above... they _are_ claiming to decode the crypto...
What gives you the impression that's what they're doing? That's not what the
text says. It's largely fluff anyway.
> > "Our XG3 execution core converts XML to machine code," said Kelly,
> Mmmmmmmmmmm, machine code, never a good idea ;)
Uhhh, fundamentally it's all machine code. Kelly's comment seems more like
drivel from a clueless marketroid than anything of technical concern.
Having what appears to be a silicon XML router would be a cool thing. Having
one integrated with your crypto environment would kick ass. Let it
deserialize/decrypt/repackage the XML before handing it off to the app servers.
The question, of course, is does it work with actual applications in the field
without tremendously reworking them. Somehow I doubt it...
-Bill Kearney
| 0 |
Re: Canadians
>>>>> "O" == Owen Byrne <owen@permafrost.net> writes:
O> From the local paper this morning. "Canadians eat about seven
O> times as many doughnuts per capita"... (as Americans) . D'oh!
If we had more variety of franchise food than the
Wendys/KFC/PizzaHut/TacoBell/TimHorton's monopoly (they are all Pepsi
under the hood, aren't they?), things might be different. When a New
Yorker has biscotti, we have a timbit, when a Parisienne has a
croissant, we have a timbit ... because that's all we can buy.
The USA is a nation founded on creative free enterprise entrepreneurs;
Canada is a nation built on monopolies.
--
Gary Lawrence Murphy <garym@teledyn.com> TeleDynamics Communications Inc
Business Advantage through Community Software : http://www.teledyn.com
"Computers are useless. They can only give you answers."(Pablo Picasso)
| 0 |
Re: Canadians
Gary Lawrence Murphy:
>If we had more variety of franchise food than
>the Wendys/KFC/PizzaHut/TacoBell/TimHorton's monopoly .. The USA is a
>nation founded on creative free enterprise entrepreneurs; Canada
>is a nation built on monopolies.
Things aren't all that bad. I remember Vancouver
as having a broad variety of good, local eateries.
And Toronto as having a variety of good, local
strip joints. ;-) I never ate a doughnut in
Canada, so I cannot vouch for their quality. I
could live in either of these cities quite happily,
but Carolyn doesn't like cold weather.
Personally, I almost never eat at a franchise
restaurant. Usually you can find better fare or
cheaper fare (and often both!) at a local
restaurant.
_________________________________________________________________
Join the world�s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
http://www.hotmail.com
| 0 |
Re: Java is for kiddies
JoeBar wrote:
>C is more reliable than Java??
Depends who writes it. One guy will write a bug every 5 lines,
another every 5000 lines. Put them both on a project and that will
average out to a bug every 4.995 lines.
<observation type=trivial>(Irrespective of language. Pick the one
that best suits what you're trying to do.)</observation>
R
| 0 |
Re: Canadians
>>>>> "R" == Russell Turpin <deafbox@hotmail.com> writes:
R> Things aren't all that bad. I remember Vancouver as having a
R> broad variety of good, local eateries. And Toronto as having a
R> variety of good, local strip joints. ;-)
I haven't been to Van in years, but I do know that in Toronto, outside
of the small deeply ethnic neighbourhoods, if you stray more than 50
feet from Wellesley and Jarvis or Queen and Spadina, you're in
doughnutland; there's far more like the eateries in the Eaton Centre
than there are quaint cafes like McCaul north of Dundas, and the rare
little eateries are not brimming with lunchtime traffic (you can still
find a seat at noon at Village by the Grange)
When most of Toronto does not live in those neighbourhoods but instead
lives in Scarborough, Malton, Mississauga and Markham (franchisevilles), you
will quickly see that one or two trendy strips does not save an entire
nation.
--
Gary Lawrence Murphy <garym@teledyn.com> TeleDynamics Communications Inc
Business Advantage through Community Software : http://www.teledyn.com
"Computers are useless. They can only give you answers."(Pablo Picasso)
| 0 |
Re: Java is for kiddies
>>>>> "R" == Robert Harley <harley@argote.ch> writes:
R> Depends who writes it. One guy will write a bug every 5 lines,
R> another every 5000 lines. Put them both on a project and that
R> will average out to a bug every 4.995 lines.
And a Java program, due to the extensive class libraries, will weigh
in at 10% the number of lines of the equivalent C program. QED.
--
Gary Lawrence Murphy <garym@teledyn.com> TeleDynamics Communications Inc
Business Advantage through Community Software : http://www.teledyn.com
"Computers are useless. They can only give you answers."(Pablo Picasso)
| 0 |
Re: The GOv gets tough on Net Users.....er Pirates..
Mike Masnick wrote:
>Why is it that people don't understand that giving stuff away is a
>perfectly acceptable tactic in capitalist businesses? In many places, it's
>called "advertising": "buy one, get one free"
I'll just take the free one, OK?
No?
Oh, so actually it's not free at all; you're just bundling, with a unit
price half of what's advertised.
How about some truth in that advertising?
R
| 0 |
Re: Java is for kiddies
GLM wrote:
>And a Java program, due to the extensive class libraries, will weigh
>in at 10% the number of lines of the equivalent C program. QED.
Quod erat not demonstrandum at all.
There are massive amounts of libraries for C, Fortran and so on.
To pick an obvious example., if you want to do linear algebra, then
Java isn't a serious candidate at all.
Furthermore, plenty of bugs occur in the libraries too, at a lower
rate due to more users having been bitten by them, but they are much
harder for you to fix than in your own code.
Why do so many people outside of Sun's marketing department consider
Java to be "Write Once, Debug Everywhere" ?
R
| 0 |
Re: Java is for kiddies
On Tue, 2002-08-27 at 08:58, Joseph S. Barrera III wrote:
>
> C is more reliable than Java??
Both are reliable. "Reliability" is more a function of the software
engineer. I've written complicated mission-critical server software in
Java that will run without a hiccup as long as the Unix box it is
sitting on is running. Same with C. For processes that are running
months at a time, and in my case constantly touching databases and doing
lots of low-level network stuff, reliability is obtained by making sure
every conceivable problem (and problems you didn't conceive of) recovers
to a clean/safe process state so that things keep running i.e. it is a
design/programming issue.
That said, we usually prototype serious systems in Java and then
re-implement them in C if we have time. Java doesn't scale well as a
language for server apps, though not for the reasons usually offered.
The problem is that for high-end server apps, you really need fairly
detailed and low-level control of system resources to get around
bottlenecks that show up relatively quickly in languages that don't give
you access to it. You can squeeze several times the performance out of
a C server program than a Java one simply by being able to finely tune
(or more frequently, bypass) the system resource management.
Nonetheless, this is not a significant factor for most applications you
could conceivably develop in either language, as most aren't limited by
raw performance scalability.
-James Rogers
jamesr@best.com
| 0 |
RE: Gecko adhesion finally sussed.
Great, this is half of what I'd need to become Spider Man! Now all I need to
figure out is how to do that spider web shooting thing.
- Jim
> -----Original Message-----
> From: fork-admin@xent.com [mailto:fork-admin@xent.com]On Behalf Of
> Eirikur Hallgrimsson
> Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 10:24 PM
> To: FoRK
> Subject: Gecko adhesion finally sussed.
>
>
> (Via Robot Wisdom) Maybe you UC folk know these people?
>
> http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2002-08/lcc-sph082202.php
>
> Working at Lewis & Clark College, the University of California at
> Berkeley,
> the University of California at Santa Barbara, and Stanford University,
> the interdisciplinary team:
>
> * confirmed speculation that the gecko's amazing climbing ability
> depends on weak molecular attractive forces called van der Waals forces,
>
> * rejected a competing model based on the adhesion chemistry of water
> molecules, and
>
> * discovered that the gecko's adhesive depends on geometry, not surface
> chemistry. In other words, the size and shape of the tips of gecko foot
> hairs--not what they are made of--determine the gecko's stickiness.
>
> To verify its experimental and theoretical results, the gecko group then
> used its new data to fabricate prototype synthetic foot-hair tips
> from two
> different materials.
>
> "Both artificial setal tips stuck as predicted," notes Autumn, assistant
> professor of biology at Lewis & Clark College in Portland, Ore. "Our
> initial prototypes open the door to manufacturing the first biologically
> inspired dry, adhesive microstructures, which can have widespread
> applications."
| 0 |
Re: Java is for kiddies
On Wed, 2002-08-28 at 09:58, Gary Lawrence Murphy wrote:
>
> And a Java program, due to the extensive class libraries, will weigh
> in at 10% the number of lines of the equivalent C program. QED.
My typical Java-to-C conversion doesn't increase the lines of code by
more than 20%, and a fair portion of that is the implementation of
additional features that drove us to do the conversion in the first
place. Some things are substantially more succinct when written in C
than in Java. C and most other mature languages have an endless
collection of libraries. I personally don't use anything beyond the
core libraries of any language that much though.
On a tangent, I find libraries nearly useless for a great many things
due primarily to the fact that most of them are so general that a given
non-trivial API almost always has a context in which it will function in
a pathological manner. Code reuse is wonderful and all that, but
libraries frequently make design trade-offs that won't work for me even
if they theoretically do exactly what I need. Unfortunately, it isn't
particularly easy nor does it make a nice simple API to design a library
that really is optimizable to a wide range of design cases. I've built
a small collection of flexible psuedo-polymorphic APIs over the years
that I tend to use, but it is a pretty ugly solution for code reuse when
you get right down to it.
-James Rogers
jamesr@best.com
| 0 |
Another low probability event
So, a new family moved in down the street, with two kids, making us very
excited that there might be a child around the same age (20 months) as our
daughter Tatum. While we're talking to the family, we discover that their
daughter Kiara was born the same day as Tatum, within two hours, in the same
exact maternity ward. Both mothers were undoubtedly in labor at the same
time.
Wow.
- Jim
| 0 |
RE: Gecko adhesion finally sussed.
At 10:34 AM -0700 on 8/28/02, Jim Whitehead wrote:
> Great, this is half of what I'd need to become Spider Man! Now all I need to
> figure out is how to do that spider web shooting thing.
...That and be able to stick yourself upside down on a 20 foot ceiling from
a standing jump...
I remember someone recently doing the calculations in kilocalories required
to be spiderman somewhere. Kind of like those flaming processor "analyses"
done a couple of years ago...
Cheers,
RAH
--
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah@ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
| 0 |
Re: Java is for kiddies
>>>>> "R" == Robert Harley <harley@argote.ch> writes:
R> GLM wrote:
>> And a Java program, due to the extensive class libraries, will
>> weigh in at 10% the number of lines of the equivalent C
>> program. QED.
R> There are massive amounts of libraries for C, Fortran and so
R> on. To pick an obvious example., if you want to do linear
R> algebra, then Java isn't a serious candidate at all.
If you want to do http, C gets pretty muddy (curl is about the best
choice I've found) but I grant you that: No language is the be-all and
end-all.
I envy some of those posting to this list. I've been in business for
24 years and I haven't yet had the luxury of writing every line of
code for any project. We are always coerced by budgets and time to
maximize the amount of work done elsewhere.
As much as I hate dealing with someone else's blackbox, as much as
I've spent sleepless nights second-guessing external libs, I've never
ever had the luxury to do otherwise. It must be wonderful to be
responsible for something you are actually responsible for, and I am
so sick of being blamed for other people's design mistakes.
Maybe there's an archive somewhere I need to know about, but I've been
using C since DrDobbs first published SmallC and yet I've never found
any decent LGPL libs cataloged in such a way that I can just type in
the task and get back an API. Because of Javadoc, which is by no
means perfect, Java provides me the second best catalog of 3rd-party
libs, second only to Perl's CPAN -- Perl is one language I also really
hate with a passion, yet end up using the most for exactly this reason.
For example, take the recent CBC Olympics site: I needed to roll
together a telnet client with a tokenizer, perl-regex preprocessing a
stream to produce parseable XML, project that XML into relational
databases using only the DTD to generate the rdbms schema, and open an
XMLRPC interface to read and post items into the news stream. Where
can I find C libs for those components?
On the webserver, we then needed a multithreaded read-only http socket
which can spawn persistent data-caching servlets that periodically
refresh themselves over socket connections to the relational database,
presenting the retreived values through XSLT-defined transforms, and
again, where can I find such stuff for C ... or for any other langauge
but Java? Wombat (servlet spec for Perl) was inviting, but it's not
ready for prime-time, and re-inventing that entire shopping list in C
is just not feasible for one programmer to do inside of 8 weeks.
When you need C libs, or even C++ libs, where's the best place to shop?
Where do you find standards-based portable RDBMS API? (ODBC?) How do
you evaluate these things without actually fetching every one and
trying it out?
In a perfect universe, I'd use Ocaml or even Ruby, but I don't see the
social infrastructure for either happening during my professional
lifetime.
R> Why do so many people outside of Sun's marketing department
R> consider Java to be "Write Once, Debug Everywhere" ?
A collegue at Cognos (Henk?) called C "the nearly-portable assembler"
--
Gary Lawrence Murphy <garym@teledyn.com> TeleDynamics Communications Inc
Business Advantage through Community Software : http://www.teledyn.com
"Computers are useless. They can only give you answers."(Pablo Picasso)
| 0 |
RIAA site hacked overnight
First seen on Dave Winer's Scrpiting News (www.scripting.com) Details here:
http://www.digichapman.com/index.php?permalink=67
- Jim
| 0 |
"Holiday Season" 2002 begins
It's official, the holidays are here. I got HTML mail from one of the
little catalogs I've been known to purchase from....basically the front
page of their first holiday catalog.
Must have been released simultaneously with mailing for a delivery target
of just after Labor Day.
Ick.
Eirikur
| 0 |
RE: Java is for kiddies
> For example, take the recent CBC Olympics site: I needed to roll
> together a telnet client with a tokenizer, perl-regex preprocessing a
> stream to produce parseable XML, project that XML into relational
> databases using only the DTD to generate the rdbms schema, and open an
> XMLRPC interface to read and post items into the news stream. Where
> can I find C libs for those components?
You open sourced the new components you developed for this project, so the
next person who comes along won't have to reimplement them, right?
- Jim
| 0 |
Re: Another low probability event
We met a family in our parent-baby group with a son born a few minutes
before our daughter - not unlikely as all members were from the same
hospital. But, this family happened to have lived in the exact same
apartment unit a year before we had...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Whitehead" <ejw@cse.ucsc.edu>
To: "FoRK" <FoRK@xent.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2002 10:40 AM
Subject: Another low probability event
> So, a new family moved in down the street, with two kids, making us very
> excited that there might be a child around the same age (20 months) as our
> daughter Tatum. While we're talking to the family, we discover that their
> daughter Kiara was born the same day as Tatum, within two hours, in the
same
> exact maternity ward. Both mothers were undoubtedly in labor at the same
> time.
>
> Wow.
>
> - Jim
>
| 0 |
Re: Java is for kiddies
>>>>> "J" == Jim Whitehead <ejw@cse.ucsc.edu> writes:
J> You open sourced the new components you developed for this
J> project, so the next person who comes along won't have to
J> reimplement them, right?
No need: All those components already exist either in the Java
class libraries or from the various java jar collections. Most
of the classes I used came from the Jakarta project and ApacheXML
But if it's any consolation, my threading of them all together into
a newswire server /is/ GPL and available on sourceforge.
--
Gary Lawrence Murphy <garym@teledyn.com> TeleDynamics Communications Inc
Business Advantage through Community Software : http://www.teledyn.com
"Computers are useless. They can only give you answers."(Pablo Picasso)
| 0 |
Re: "Holiday Season" 2002 begins
Eirikur Hallgrimsson wrote:
> It's official, the holidays are here.
For which year, 2003 or 2004?
- Joe
| 0 |
Internet saturation (but not in Iceland)
Gary's news service at teledyn.com has an article on Internet Saturation.
Let me ask you....If you were on a rock in the middle of the Atlantic,
mostly in the dark for half the year, wouldn't *you* like a bit of
internet distraction? They've already done the obvious and fiber-ringed
the island.
Eirikur
--------
Latest guestimate stats from Ireland's NUA show a flattening Internet
population growth. It seems there's two kinds of people, those who will go
online with the status quo, and those who won't: Canada levels out at 53%,
the USA at 59% (since 2000!), Denmark flatlines at 60%, Norway at 54%,
Sweden at 64%, and the UK at 55% ... only Iceland continues unfettered
beyond 60%. Could this be evidence of a usability barrier? If so, it's a
clear signal that there's as much fortune to be gained from a
substantially new Internet interface than all that has been gained so far.
Latest guestimate stats from Ireland's NUA show a flattening Internet
population growth. It seems there's two kinds of people, those who will go
online with the status quo, and those who won't: Canada levels out at 53%,
the USA at 59% (since 2000!), Denmark flatlines at 60%, Norway at 54%,
Sweden at 64%, and the UK at 55% ... only Iceland continues unfettered
beyond 60%. Could this be evidence of a usability barrier? If so, it's a
clear signal that there's as much fortune to be gained from a
substantially new Internet interface than all that has been gained so far.
http://www.nua.ie/surveys/how_many_online/
| 0 |
Re: Java is for kiddies
Gary Lawrence Murphy said:
> I envy some of those posting to this list. I've been in business for
> 24 years and I haven't yet had the luxury of writing every line of
> code for any project. We are always coerced by budgets and time to
> maximize the amount of work done elsewhere.
For consultancy, integration or open source work, sure, perl, python or
java with free use of external libs makes a lot of sense IMO.
I should note that normally when I've used C or C++ in the past, it's
dictated by the fact that I would be working on a commercial product,
written from the ground up, where the code you're generating is important
IP for the company; in this case, using a third-party lib often is not an
option, or would be a PITA licensing-wise.
Also, cutting out third-party dependencies can reduce the risk of "oops,
there goes the company that makes that library I depend on, now to shop
around for something vaguely similar, figure out what bugs it's got,
rewrite my code to use the new API, and hope for the best".
This can be a *very* big deal, for obvious reasons ;) Open source
knockers should note that this is not a problem when using LGPL'd libs ;)
--j.
| 0 |
Re: Internet saturation (but not in Iceland)
Eirikur Hallgrimsson said:
> Let me ask you....If you were on a rock in the middle of the Atlantic,
> mostly in the dark for half the year, wouldn't *you* like a bit of
> internet distraction? They've already done the obvious and fiber-ringed
> the island.
BTW did they do the same as they did in Ireland, namely: spend millions
burying copious miles of dark fibre, then neglect to provide any way of
actually hooking it up to any ISPs? ;)
--j. (frustrated)
| 0 |
Re: Rambus, Man
--------------090602010909000705010009
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Geege wrote:
>This message was sent to you from http://www.idg.net
>
>Geege would like you to read the story below:
>
>http://www.idg.net/gomail.cgi?id=940026
>
>Title:
>A first look at the 2.8-GHz Pentium 4
>
>Summary:
>Latest Rambus memory plus fast bus appear to give Intel's newest P4 the jolt it needs.
>
>Geege attached the following message:
>------------------------------------------------------------
>ha ha ha harley. rambus earns it.
>------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Stay on top of the world of Information Technology with your own
>FREE subscription to our specialized newsletters. Subscribe now
>at http://www.idg.net/subscribe
>
>
>7132
>
>
>
The overclockers have given it another jolt, perhaps to potential sales
(and maybe sales of liquid nitrogen):
via slashdot
Owen
http://www.muropaketti.com/artikkelit/cpu/nw2800/index3.phtml
*P�iv�m��r�:* 26.8.2002
*Artikkeli:* Intel Northwood 2,8GHz
*Tekij�:* Sampsa Kurri <mailto:sampsa.kurri@muropaketti.com>
*English Summary*
When the Intel Pentium 4 2,8GHz CPU arrived to our testlab we ordered 10
liters of Liquid Nitrogen (LN2 -196�C) and decided to run some tests in
very low temperatures.
After some adjusting and testing we were able to run SiSoft Sandra CPU
and Memory benchmarks and Pifast benchmark smoothly when the CPU was
running at 3917MHz. We raised the FSB one more step and managed to run
succesfully SuperPi benchmark while CPU was running at 3998MHz. The
result was 39 seconds.
Test setup: P4 2,8GHz, Modified Asus P4T533-C, Samsung PC800 RDRAM, PNY
GeForce 4 MX440 and Windows XP OS.
Check out the pictures.
--------------090602010909000705010009--
| 0 |
RE: Gasp!
On Sun, 1 Sep 2002, Bill Stoddard wrote:
> >
> > "Red Hat Linux Advanced Server provides many high end features such as:
> > Support for Asynchronous I/O. Now read I/O no longer needs to stall your
> > application while waiting for completion."
>
> Can you provide a reference? I could find it myself but I'm too lazy.
Well, i saw it on the Compaq Testdrive site, then had to seriously dig on
the redhat site... It's in one of their whitepapers...
http://www.redhat.com/pdf/as/as_rasm.pdf
> > Could it be? After 20 years without this feature UNIX finally
> > catches up to
> > Windows and has I/O that doesnt totally suck for nontrivial apps? No way!
>
> Do /dev/poll and FreeBSD's KQ event driven APIs count? IMHO, true async
> io as implemented by Windows 4.0 and beyond is pretty slick, but the
> programming model is substantially more complex than programming to an
> event API like /dev/poll. And true async does not buy much if the
> system call overhead is low (as it is with Linux).
I havent used the FBSD poll, as it's not portable, select and poll(still not
100%) are all that exist in the UNIX world. Redhat of course doesnt count as
portable either, but it's nice they are trying. The Windows I/O model does
definately blow the doors off the UNIX one, but then they had select to
point at in it's suckiness and anything would have been an improvement. UNIX
is just now looking at it's I/O model and adapting to a multiprocess
multithreaded world so it's gonna be years yet before a posix API comes out
of it. Bottom line is the "do stuff when something happens" model turned out
to be right, and the UNIX "look for something to do and keep looking till
you find it no matter how many times you have to look" is not really working
so great anymore.
- Adam L. "Duncan" Beberg
http://www.mithral.com/~beberg/
beberg@mithral.com
| 0 |
Re: revocation of grlygrl201@
Well Beberg, unless you're really into Anime and actually hold true
that dead people can send email, I think Geege's subject is just dandy.
Especially since she removed herself from the hive that is aol (and
placed herself unto another, but hey :-))
Geege: I think its cute when he worries like that, don't you?
:)
*ducks and runs*
(bonus FoRK points if Adam knows what anime i'm refering to)
BB
| 0 |
RE: revocation of grlygrl201@
beberg, would you rather mrsrobinson@bellsouth.net?
into plastics too,
schuman
-----Original Message-----
From: fork-admin@xent.com [mailto:fork-admin@xent.com]On Behalf Of
Joseph S. Barrera III
Sent: Sunday, September 01, 2002 7:52 PM
To: FoRK
Subject: Re: revocation of grlygrl201@
bitbitch@magnesium.net wrote:
> Well Beberg, unless you're really into Anime and actually hold true
> that dead people can send email, I think Geege's subject is just
> dandy.
Funny you should mention that, as I just came back from refilling
the green coolant in my Navi.
> (bonus FoRK points if Adam knows what anime i'm refering to)
I guess I don't get any points, do I? No, didn't think so.
- Joe
P.S. We've just started watching Boogiepop Phantom...
--
The Combatant State is your father and your mother, your only
protector, the totality of your interests. No discipline can
be stern enough for the man who denies that by word or deed.
| 0 |
Re: Java is for kiddies
Reza B'Far (eBuilt) wrote:
> problems.... Why do most computer scientists insist on solving the
> same problems over and over again when there are some many more
> important and interesting problems (high level) to be solved ?????
Amen!
Doing it in an (unecessarily) harder way does NOT make you more of a man
(or less of a kiddie).
- Joe
--
The Combatant State is your father and your mother, your only
protector, the totality of your interests. No discipline can
be stern enough for the man who denies that by word or deed.
| 0 |
Tech's Major Decline
"Once we thought of the Internet as this thing with infinite capabilities.
It was basically just a fad that came along."
Missing from the article is the percentage of foreign enrolement, I would
bet the numbers of students from Asia (China specificly) has gone up quite a
bit, and is the only thing keeping the overall numbers from plummiting.
"you can't get the chicks with that anymore."
About time us geeks were outcasts again. I was getting sick of hearing about
geeks breeding and ending up with autistic children - proving that
intelligence is a genetic defect and a "do not breed" flag.)
- Adam L. "Duncan" Beberg
http://www.mithral.com/~beberg/
beberg@mithral.com
-----------------
Tech's Major Decline
College Students Turning Away From Bits and Bytes
By Ellen McCarthy
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, August 27, 2002; Page E01
If John Yandziak had been entering college a few years ago, he might have
sought a stake in the "new" economy. He might have dreamed of becoming an
ace code-cracker for the CIA or the National Security Agency, or imagined
toppling an empire with revolutionary software. Maybe he would have tried to
use the Internet to end world hunger.
But as Yandziak attends his first college classes this week, he's harboring
different academic ambitions. The Ashburn native says he wants to do
something more social and more interesting than working with computers.
Besides, he said while packing for a Charlottesville dormitory room, "you
can't get the chicks with that anymore."
The tech industry's financial problems are enough to bankrupt the dreams of
some fair-weather students. But now there's another consequence of the tech
bust: Enrollment growth in undergraduate computer science departments has
come to a halt.
The number of undergraduates majoring in computer science fell 1 percent in
2001, according to a report by the Computing Research Association. And
educators in the field say the trend seems to be accelerating, with some
colleges seeing much greater drops as the new academic year begins.
The word is out among department deans that the bust's fallout has trickled
into the classroom, said Maria Clavez, president of the Association of
Computing Machinery.
"I've heard everything from no change to modest decline to more dramatic
declines," said Clavez, who will become the dean of science and engineering
at Princeton University in January. "It can be hard to see this, because at
some colleges the number of people who want to study computer science so far
exceeds the available space. [But] it is going to have an effect."
At Virginia Tech, enrollment of undergraduates in the computer science
department will drop 25 percent this year, to 300. At George Washington
University, the number of incoming freshmen who plan to study computer
science fell by more than half this year.
Interest in undergraduate computer science programs had grown rapidly in the
past decade. In 1997, schools with PhD programs in computer science and
computer engineering granted 8,063 degrees, according to the Computing
Research Association. The numbers rose through 2001, when 17,048 degrees
were awarded.
The Labor Department projects that software engineering will be the
fastest-growing occupation between 2000 and 2010, with other
computer-related industries trailing close behind.
But in the short term that growth may slow, based on the changes among
college students. For example, 900 of the 2,000-plus undergraduates studying
information technology and engineering at George Mason University were
computer science majors last year. This year the enrollment in that major is
down to 800, although a newly created and more general information
technology major has attracted 200 students.
"Having it ease off for a while is a bit of a relief," said Lloyd Griffith,
dean of George Mason's information technology and engineering school.
"Particularly with the field as it has been, they don't want to spend four
years on something and then not get a job."
Freshman enrollment for the University of Maryland's computer science major
is expected to be about 167 this fall, down from 329 last year. Maryland
decreased its total freshman enrollment by 11 percent, but that alone does
not account for the drop, said Steve Halperin, dean of Maryland's College of
Computer, Mathematical and Physical Sciences.
"We are seeing a decrease in the number of freshmen who are declaring their
interest in pursuing computer science as a major," Halperin said. "That's a
factual statement. But I would say that at this point . . . we don't expect
to see a decrease in the number of graduates. Many of the kids who are no
longer expressing an interest in majoring in CS would have fallen off."
Yandziak, who began at the University of Virginia on Saturday, is not
convinced that's the case. He graduated in the top 5 percent of his class,
with a 3.9 grade-point average, and nailed the highest possible score on his
advanced-placement exam in computer science.
"All of my classes have been easy for me. Math and sciences were always fun,
so I looked for professions in which I could use those things," Yandziak
said. "I'm just not sure I want my life to be immersed in [technology]. I
want to do something that will contribute to the practical world."
Harris N. Miller, president of the Information Technology Association of
America, said the last time there was a dearth of computing professionals,
salaries skyrocketed and workers benefited from the labor shortage.
"There was a tremendous imbalance in the late '90s; potentially you have the
same sort of thing going on right now. People are saying, 'I don't need this
kind of IT training right now,' " Miller said. "Our concern as an industry
is that if they begin to again see major declines in enrollment, down the
road four years, as the economy picks up, once again companies are going to
find themselves in a shortage situation."
Economic potential weighs heavily in many student career choices, but other
factors, including program difficulty, personal interests and social
influences, also come into play, said Judy Hingle, director of professional
development at the American College Counseling Association. The perception
of computer science as an isolating, "nerdy" profession is one that many in
the industry have tried to squelch. That stereotype went underground during
the tech bubble but reemerged during the bust.
"All the hipness is gone," Yandziak said. "Once we thought of the Internet
as this thing with infinite capabilities. It was basically just a fad that
came along."
Lamont Thompson, a recent graduate of Calvin Coolidge Senior High School in
the District, is headed to Morehouse College in Atlanta to study business
marketing, with the intention of going into real estate development.
"Technology comes natural to people my age; it's not fascinating anymore,"
Thompson said. "To be honest with you, when I think computer science, I
think of some guy sitting behind a computer all day in a dark room. It's a
necessity, but I wouldn't take it any further."
| 0 |
Re: Java is for kiddies
On Sun, 1 Sep 2002, Joseph S. Barrera III wrote:
> Reza B'Far (eBuilt) wrote:
> > problems.... Why do most computer scientists insist on solving the
> > same problems over and over again when there are some many more
> > important and interesting problems (high level) to be solved ?????
>
> Amen!
Like what exactly? All the problems are in chemisty and physics and biology
and mathematics. We're just enablers :)
> Doing it in an (unecessarily) harder way does NOT make you more of a man
> (or less of a kiddie).
Yes, but doing it an order of magnitude or 2 easier does :) Which with the
way things are now, is not hard at all to do.
- Adam L. "Duncan" Beberg
http://www.mithral.com/~beberg/
beberg@mithral.com
| 0 |
Re: Java is for kiddies
On Sun, 1 Sep 2002, Mr. FoRK wrote:
> > 6. Hardware is getting so fast that I'm not sure if the performance
> > difference between Java and C/C++ are relevant any more.
>
> When out-of-the-box parsing & transform of XML in java is 25x slower than
> C++ on the same hardware then it does matter.
Yea, and that on top of the 100x of all the parsing engines over just
bigendian'ing it and passing the data (5x+++) in the raw. Then it REALLY
matters.
- Adam L. "Duncan" Beberg
http://www.mithral.com/~beberg/
beberg@mithral.com
| 0 |
Re: Java is for kiddies
On Sunday 01 September 2002 08:43 pm, Reza B'Far (eBuilt) wrote:
> 3. Java is not just a programming language!
The astounding thing about java is that despite all of the many significant
points in its favor, it still manages to suck, and break across JVMs.
I was really looking forward to being able to use a better language like
java and get it compiled to real platform-specific binaries via the GNU
compiler collection. But this seems to have never really gotten anywhere
because it would require porting or reimplementing libraries, which are
probably not source-available or tolerably licenced. When I looked at
what I had to do to gcc and link "hello world," I lost interest.
Who the hell is writing the runtimes, anyway? Why are Perl/Python/Ruby
more reliable? In a world where the Macs all ran emulated 68K code
utterly reliably, it's just hard to accept that there can't be a single
portable JVM that just works.
My opinion is biased because of the disgraceful state of non-Windoze
browser java implementations.
Eirikur
| 0 |
Er
use this address instead, please.
prerogatively,
geege
| 0 |
Re: Java is for kiddies
On Mon, Sep 02, 2002 at 03:19:13AM -0400, Eirikur Hallgrimsson wrote:
> My opinion is biased because of the disgraceful state of non-Windoze
> browser java implementations.
Horrors. Applets are kinda sucky. The cool kids are using Java to write
server applications, not browser craplets.
The giggle-inducing irony of the whole Java thing is how Sun's strategy
backfired. They produced a platform that was supposed to dwell on the
client side, where it would commoditize those clients. Instead, it turns
out to be the perfect language to write server applications in, and it has
successfully commoditized servers. Ooops!
--
njl
| 0 |
RE: Java is for kiddies
With the increasing prevalence of web services (not that they are always a
good thing), I doubt that parsing XML will be something that will remain at
the Java application layer for long... Recent threads here on Fork
indicating the move towards hardware parsing or this code even become part
of the native implementation of Java on various platforms...
Reza B'Far
-----Original Message-----
From: fork-admin@xent.com [mailto:fork-admin@xent.com]On Behalf Of Adam
L. Beberg
Sent: Sunday, September 01, 2002 9:01 PM
To: Mr. FoRK
Cc: fork@spamassassin.taint.org
Subject: Re: Java is for kiddies
On Sun, 1 Sep 2002, Mr. FoRK wrote:
> > 6. Hardware is getting so fast that I'm not sure if the performance
> > difference between Java and C/C++ are relevant any more.
>
> When out-of-the-box parsing & transform of XML in java is 25x slower than
> C++ on the same hardware then it does matter.
Yea, and that on top of the 100x of all the parsing engines over just
bigendian'ing it and passing the data (5x+++) in the raw. Then it REALLY
matters.
- Adam L. "Duncan" Beberg
http://www.mithral.com/~beberg/
beberg@mithral.com
| 0 |
SChoolHouseRocks DVD
Of course they had to do this AFTER we purcahsed these all on vhs, and yes
it is now run by the great evil empire known as disney...but we got the
new School House Rocks DVD anyway and man is it an amazing item.
First off , my 8 year old has been singing them since she was 6. Second
off, these are much easier to rip to divx and mp3. Third, new songs,
remastered originals and other dvd goodies. Its a 2 dvd set so its well
worth the 17$ we paid for it.
Even if you dont have kids, run do not walk to pick this one up.
Man, I would sure love to have a *nix Rocks for the kids.
| 0 |
Re: Java is for kiddies
>
> Microsoft has announced that they plan to remove Java from Windows.
> They took it out of XP already and it has to be installed with a
> service pack. Somehow, I can't imagine them removing the ability to
> run C programs.
They removed /their/ Java VM. They didn't remove the ability to run Java
programs.
Anybody is free to develop their own Java VM and make it kick ass. As
someone said earlier in the thread, nobody is capable or willing to do that.
I've done a bunch of Java and haven't run into huge problems running the
same bytecode across Solaris or Win2K.
What actual problems have people actually run into. Actually.
| 0 |
RE: Java is for kiddies
-----Original Message-----
From: fork-admin@xent.com [mailto:fork-admin@xent.com]On Behalf Of
Robert Harley
Sent: Monday, September 02, 2002 2:55 AM
To: fork@spamassassin.taint.org
Subject: RE: Java is for kiddies
Reza B'Far wrote:
>This thread kind of surprises me... I started coding with C, then C++, and
>moved on to Java... And, I think that:
Robert Harley wrote:
>Looks like a case of "MY experience is comprehensive, YOUR'S is
>anecdotal, THEY don't know what they're talking about".
Well, I sure don't claim that... I think most people on Fork probably have
more programming knowledge than I do... There's lots of experience out
here...
Reza B'Far wrote:
>1. The people who pay the wages don't give a flyin' heck what programming
>language you write things in... they just want it to work.
Robert Harley wrote:
>In my experience, they do care. It has to work certainly, and in
>particular it has to work with what they've already got, and it has to
>work on client's systems.
>My limited experience of Java started a few years ago when support on
>Linux was so terrible that I ran away screaming and haven't come back yet.
Well, I think until recently, support for most things on Linux was kind of
shady... Things have got much better... You're right in that the JDK used to
suck on Linux... But then, IMHO, Linux is still maturing.... or at least
development tools for Linux are maturing... I've been developing a few
server side apps that run on Linux recently with JDK 1.3.x and they've had
no problems with great performance.
Robert Harley worte:
>Microsoft has announced that they plan to remove Java from Windows.
>They took it out of XP already and it has to be installed with a
>service pack. Somehow, I can't imagine them removing the ability to
>run C programs.
Hmmm... Do you really think that MS is pulling out Java because it's a "Bad"
programming language or application platform? You don't think this has
anything to do with .NET being a competitor to Java do you? Or that MS has
basically copied Java (with some additional features) and called it C#?
Isn't that alone an indication that they actually DO think that a VM is the
right way to go for most high level applications?
Reza B'Far wrote:
>2. C and C++ forces the developer to solve problems such as memory
>management over and over again.
Robert Harley wrote:
>Can't say I spend any noticeable amount of time on memory management
>issues, apart from the fact that I frequently need > 4 GB.
Hmmm again.... You're telling me that you've never had a nasty bug that took
you a couple of days to track down that had to do with a memory leak? I am
not the best C/C++ programmer... not even close... But I've known really
good ones... and even they have nasty bugs that have to do with memory
management, however occasional they may be.
>It's about design patterns, architecture, high level stuff...
Robert Harley wrote:
>If your problem just requires application of a "design pattern" to solve,
>then it's trivial anyway irrespective of language.
Wow! So you're telling me that unless the application involves
bit-counting, it's trivial? What about the application itself? What about
high level problems such as task distribution, work-flow, etc.? Aren't most
high level problems solved with high level solutions like design patterns?
Or do you solve high level problems by writing optimal C/C++ code? For
example, do you think that most people working on collaboration frameworks
(there are lots of them on this list), are working on writing an operating
system with assembly that provides for a collaborative environment?
>I am amazed by the amount of time wasted by people talking about low
>level problems that have been solved 10 million times over and over
>and over again...
Robert Harley wrote:
>You appear to be gratuitously asserting that C programmers waste time
>on irrelevant low-level problems and Java programmers don't. Depends
>entirely on the programmer, not the language.
I can see how you could infer this. However, what I believe to really be the
case is that Java is one of the best languages for writing large
applications with many components that involves the collaboration of more
than three programmers. In those cases, it's always very hard to get the
programmers to agree on API's, memory management techniques, etc. With
Java, the JCP takes care of the discussions so that you don't sit around in
a long meeting trying to decide what API to use to hook up to a database
(JDBC) or a messaging bus (JMS).
>3. Java is not just a programming language! It's also a platform...
Robert Harley wrote:
>Buzzword.
YIKES! Have you written db code with C/C++ for different databases (just an
example)? Tried porting a persistence layer from Windows to Unix? Say you
have Informix running on Solaris and you want to port to Windows with MS SQL
(bad idea...but for the sake of the example), would you rather deal with
JDBC port or C/C++ port that uses Informix drivers and now you have to use
ODBC?
>a monolithic set of API's or a crap load of different API's slicing
>and dicing the same problems 50 different ways?
Robert Harley wrote:
>Unsupported assertion.
So, are you saying that there is a standard set of API's for C/C++ for
everything? (aside to the minimal ANSI stuff). Is there a standard way of
dealing with C/C++ applications for various domain problems (messaging,
database persistence, etc.) that rivals Java? I'd like to know if there is
one accepted by everyone who writes C/C++... In that case, I claim
ignorance...
Not suggesting that Java is the golden hammer.... Just that C/C++ is
overkill for most things... I even coded in VB... But VB is a true disgrace
to programming... It's just lame... Java is Object Oriented... (no
flame-mail from the anti-OO people please... that is a religious
discussion...) and relatively clean... And I don't think that every "Kid"
can write a well designed Java program. Kids typically don't understand
various design patterns and principles... To my experience, they actually
tend to think more of the low level problems, wanting to rewrite and
reinvent the world... a tendency that is much more possible, IMHO, in C/C++
than in Java due to existence of standard API's.
| 0 |
RE: Java is for kiddies
On Mon, 2 Sep 2002, Reza B'Far (eBuilt) wrote:
> Hmmm again.... You're telling me that you've never had a nasty bug that took
> you a couple of days to track down that had to do with a memory leak? I am
> not the best C/C++ programmer... not even close... But I've known really
> good ones... and even they have nasty bugs that have to do with memory
> management, however occasional they may be.
OK, noone has been tool-less for memory management for a LONG time. Most
systems you just add a flag and memory is tracked (that's how i've always
done it) or worst case yuo have to run it through one of the 2.3E7 tools
where you simply recompile and it it tells you where the leaks are.
Memory management is a non-issue for anyone that has any idea at all how the
hardware functions. Granted, this takes 30 minutes to go over, and so is far
beyond the scope of the "Learn Java in 90 minutes without thinking" book
every Java programmer learned from.
- Adam L. "Duncan" Beberg
http://www.mithral.com/~beberg/
beberg@mithral.com
| 0 |
RE: Java is for kiddies
On Mon, 2 Sep 2002, Reza B'Far (eBuilt) wrote:
> With the increasing prevalence of web services (not that they are always a
> good thing), I doubt that parsing XML will be something that will remain at
> the Java application layer for long... Recent threads here on Fork
> indicating the move towards hardware parsing or this code even become part
> of the native implementation of Java on various platforms...
OK, so, you get the XML toss it through hardware and turn it back into a
struct/object whatever you call your binary data. I agree this is the way
things will go, as XML parsing has just too much overhead to survive in the
application layer. So why turn it into XML in the first place? Becasue it
gives geeks something to do and sells XML hardware accelerators and way more
CPUs?
Is there anyone out there actually doing anything new that actually IMPROVES
things anymore, or are they all too scared of the fact that improvements put
people out of work and cut #1 is the creators...
- Adam L. "Duncan" Beberg
http://www.mithral.com/~beberg/
beberg@mithral.com
| 0 |
Re: Electric car an Edsel...
Sunday I drove from Portland down to the Woodburn Dragstrip to check out
the NEDRA Nationals. <http://www.nedra.com/>
The electric cars, motorcycles and dragsters had some great times and I
ended up with a few pics and a nice deep burn...
John Waylan (who was interviewed in Wired a few years back) pulled out a
14.4 second run in the quarter mile (91mph), on a battery pack that
hasn't been broken in yet. He expects to break his record next year
topping his 13.1sec/99mph run a couple of years ago. He's shooting for a
12 second run.
John also took out a replica 1908 Oldsmobile for a respectable 47mph
run. (Remember, we started out with electric cars.)
Near the end of the day, Kilacycle took the track with an amazing 111mph
run. Talk about a crotch rocket.
...Ross...
On Saturday, August 31, 2002, at 01:45 AM, Adam L. Beberg wrote:
> Personally I don't think Americans will ever go electric, there is too
> much
> testosterone linked to the auto as the male's primary form of
> compesating
> for other things. See.. now that's a job for you femanists, teach women
> not
> to fall for a fast environmentally destuctive vehicle, you should only
> have
> to rewrite 98% of the genome ;)
| 0 |
Re: CVS report
--==_Exmh_-403670396P
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> From: Anders Eriksson <aeriksson@fastmail.fm>
> Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 23:05:30 +0200
>
>
> > > Just cvs up'ed and nowadays Catch-up Unseen is __extremely__ slow on
> > > large (>100 msgs) unseen sequences. Anybody else having this problem?
> >
> > I'll take the blame.
> >
> > The reason, I suspect, is that we're needlessly reading the .sequences file
> > multiple times because of other sequences. I need to make the code much
> > smarter about handling that file, but first I have a few other fish to fry in
> > my rather large patch that's on it's way.
> >
>
> No panic,
>
> I'm all for cleaning things up before getting it optimized.
Okay, this fix is now checked in.
Chris
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--==_Exmh_-403670396P
Content-Type: application/pgp-signature
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Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Exmh version 2.2_20000822 06/23/2000
iD8DBQE9ZPxXK9b4h5R0IUIRAvrpAJ47Bzr8fOBqRvDy70Zo+q/dBaDv+wCdGlkP
35PlaPfCqzM6h0Y9RwT/JmQ=
=7ghD
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--==_Exmh_-403670396P--
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Re: New Sequences Window
--==_Exmh_-398538836P
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> From: Robert Elz <kre@munnari.OZ.AU>
> Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 18:32:00 +0700
>
> Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 10:54:46 -0500
> From: Chris Garrigues <cwg-dated-1030377287.06fa6d@DeepEddy.Com>
> Message-ID: <1029945287.4797.TMDA@deepeddy.vircio.com>
>
> | I can't reproduce this error.
>
> Ah, I think I just found the cause, nmh is broken (which is probably
> obvious from my previous mail).
>
> The man page for pick (and how it always used to work) was that -list
> would list messages matched. -nolist would supress that. If -sequence
> is given the default is -nolist, without -sequence the default is -list.
>
> That's all fine - but it appears now (which probably means I had never
> used pick since I upgraded nmh last) that what counts is the order of
> -list and -sequence - that is, if -sequence comes after -list, the -list
> gets turned off (-sequence implies -nolist instead of just making -nolist
> the default).
>
> An easy workaround for this is to make sure that -list is the last arg
> given to pick, so if I run ...
>
> delta$ pick +inbox -lbrace -lbrace -subject ftp -rbrace -rbrace 4852-4852
> -sequence mercury -list
> 4852
>
> which is just as it should be.
hmmm, I assume you're going to report this to the nmh folks?
Chris
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--==_Exmh_-398538836P
Content-Type: application/pgp-signature
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Exmh version 2.2_20000822 06/23/2000
iD8DBQE9ZP1lK9b4h5R0IUIRAhSFAJ0dWespJZxDa1q6t1yyulLXBp1ryACfUF+D
ltpgX3KXYwpbhGV2bUHY6gY=
=H9ck
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--==_Exmh_-398538836P--
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Re: New Sequences Window
--==_Exmh_-763629846P
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> From: Chris Garrigues <cwg-exmh@DeepEddy.Com>
> Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 09:12:16 -0500
>
> > From: "J. W. Ballantine" <jwb@homer.att.com>
> > Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 09:51:31 -0400
> >
> > I CVS'ed the unseen/Sequences changes and installed them, and have only one
> > real issue.
> >
> > I use the unseen window rather than the exmh icon, and with the new code
> > I can't seem to be able to. How many unseen when when I have the main window open
> > is not really necessary.
>
> hmmm, I stole the code from unseenwin, but I never tested it since I don't use
> that functionality. Consider it on my list of things to check.
Well, unfortunately, I appear to be using a window manager that doesn't
support the icon window.
However, I did fix some bugs in the related "Hide When Empty" functionality
which may solve the issue. You may need to remove "unseen" from the "always
show sequences" to make this work. If so, let me know so I can put that in
the help window for "Icon Window" as it already is for "Hide When Empty".
Chris
--
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World War III: The Wrong-Doers Vs. the Evil-Doers.
--==_Exmh_-763629846P
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LCumaahI4ILE6tbF8nUd0r8=
=nwh1
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--==_Exmh_-763629846P--
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Re: CVS report
--==_Exmh_-451422450P
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> From: Chris Garrigues <cwg-exmh@DeepEddy.Com>
> Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 12:23:38 -0500
>
> Okay....Catchup unseen is something that I don't use often, but i can
> certainly reproduce this. I'll dig into it. It's probably simple.
Try it now.
Chris
--
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World War III: The Wrong-Doers Vs. the Evil-Doers.
--==_Exmh_-451422450P
Content-Type: application/pgp-signature
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Exmh version 2.2_20000822 06/23/2000
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vei8luehray6oqTftNPId8g=
=6Ao0
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--==_Exmh_-451422450P--
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Re: Insert signature
Thanks Tony, but I think doing it using component files will get a .signature
by default, but I have many diferent signatures and I want to insert one of
that signatures using a keyboard command. So for a message I will insert a
signature, but for another message I will insert a different signature.
Is it possible? I am using sedit for my messages.
Thanks.
Ulises
> > Hi!
> >
> > Is there a command to insert the signature using a combination of keys and not
> > to have sent the mail to insert it then?
>
> I simply put it (them) into my (nmh) component files (components,
> replcomps, forwcomps and so on). That way you get them when you are
> editing your message. Also, by using comps files for specific
> folders you can alter your .sig per folder (and other tricks). See
> the docs for (n)mh for all the details.
>
> There might (must?) also be a way to get sedit to do it, but I've
> been using gvim as my exmh message editor for a long time now. I
> load it with a command that loads some email-specific settings, eg,
> to "syntax" colour-highlight the headers and quoted parts of an
> email)... it would be possible to map some (vim) keys that would add
> a sig (or even give a selection of sigs to choose from).
>
> And there are all sorts of ways to have randomly-chosen sigs...
> somewhere at rtfm.mit.edu... ok, here we go:
> rtfm.mit.edu/pub/usenet-by-group/news.answers/signature_finger_faq.
> (Warning... it's old, May 1995).
>
> > Regards,
> > Ulises
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Cheers
> Tony
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> Exmh-users@redhat.com
> https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/exmh-users
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defaulting to showing plaintext versions of e-mails
What's the trick again to have it default to showing text/plain instead of
html?
--Harlan
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Re: defaulting to showing plaintext versions of e-mails
>>>>> On Sat, 24 Aug 2002, "Harlan" == Harlan Feinstein wrote:
Harlan> What's the trick again to have it default to showing
Harlan> text/plain instead of html?
In ~/.exmh/exmh-defaults add:
*mime_alternative_prefs: text/plain text/enriched text/richtext text/html
Order possible alternatives from _your_ most preferred to least
preferred.
--Hal
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Re: New Sequences Window
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 10:04:06 -0500
From: Chris Garrigues <cwg-dated-1030460647.7351a3@DeepEddy.Com>
Message-ID: <1030028647.6462.TMDA@deepeddy.vircio.com>
| hmmm, I assume you're going to report this to the nmh folks?
Yes, I will, sometime, after I look at the nmh sources and see what
they have managed to break, and why.
But we really want exmh to operate with all the versions of nmh that
exist, don't we? The patch to have exmh do the right thing, whether this
bug exists, or not, is trivial, so I'd suggest including it.
Patch follows ...
I have no idea why the sequences were being added after the message list
before, not that it should make any difference to nmh (or MH). But since
I stopped doing that, the variable "msgs" isn't really needed any more,
rather than assigning $pick(msgs) to msgs, and then using $msgs the code
could just use $pick(msgs) where $msgs is now used. This is just a
frill though, so I didn't change that.
kre
--- pick.tcl Fri Aug 23 16:28:14 2002
+++ /usr/local/lib/exmh-2.5/pick.tcl Sat Aug 24 18:14:44 2002
@@ -128,7 +128,7 @@
}
proc Pick_It {} {
global pick exmh
- set cmd [list exec pick +$exmh(folder) -list]
+ set cmd [list exec pick +$exmh(folder)]
set inpane 0
set hadpane 0
for {set pane 1} {$pane <= $pick(panes)} {incr pane} {
@@ -175,8 +175,9 @@
}
set msgs $pick(msgs)
foreach s $pick(sequence) {
- lappend msgs -sequence $s
+ lappend cmd -sequence $s
}
+ lappend cmd -list
Exmh_Debug Pick_It $cmd $msgs
busy PickInner $cmd $msgs
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Re: Anolther sequence related traceback
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 10:58:20 -0500
From: Chris Garrigues <cwg-dated-1030550301.a24bc5@DeepEddy.Com>
Message-ID: <1030118301.3993.TMDA@deepeddy.vircio.com>
| Interesting...I don't think this was my bug.
| It appears that Msg_Change was asked to change to message "-".
Something like that is quite possible, but perviously typing nonsense
in didn't cause tracebacks, and now it does, and the traceback came
from the sequence code...
Perviously this would have just caused red messages in the status
line complaining about my lousy typing. That's probably what it
should keep on doing (the "red" part isn't important obviously..)
kre
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latest php upgrade in 7.3
Today an apt-get upgrade holds back php (and submodules, like php-imap).
Running an apt-get install php to see what's up, I get:
# apt-get install php
Processing File Dependencies... Done
Reading Package Lists... Done
Building Dependency Tree... Done
The following extra packages will be installed:
curl-devel imap imap-devel mysql mysql-devel php-imap php-ldap postgresql
postgresql-devel postgresql-libs pspell-devel ucd-snmp-devel
ucd-snmp-utils
unixODBC unixODBC-devel
The following NEW packages will be installed:
curl-devel imap imap-devel mysql mysql-devel postgresql postgresql-devel
postgresql-libs pspell-devel ucd-snmp-devel ucd-snmp-utils unixODBC
unixODBC-devel
The following packages will be upgraded
php php-imap php-ldap
3 packages upgraded, 13 newly installed, 0 to remove(replace) and 1 not
upgraded.
Anyone have an idea what the heck RedHat did here, and why we're now
trying to install a ton of crap I don't want? (I'm hoping someone else
has chased this down and could save me time... ;) )
thx,
-te
--
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Cool as the other side of the pillow
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Re: latest php upgrade in 7.3
On Thu, 2002-08-22 at 19:10, Troy Engel wrote:
> Today an apt-get upgrade holds back php (and submodules, like php-imap).
> Running an apt-get install php to see what's up, I get:
>
> # apt-get install php
> Processing File Dependencies... Done
> Reading Package Lists... Done
> Building Dependency Tree... Done
> The following extra packages will be installed:
> curl-devel imap imap-devel mysql mysql-devel php-imap php-ldap postgresql
> postgresql-devel postgresql-libs pspell-devel ucd-snmp-devel
> ucd-snmp-utils
> unixODBC unixODBC-devel
> The following NEW packages will be installed:
> curl-devel imap imap-devel mysql mysql-devel postgresql postgresql-devel
> postgresql-libs pspell-devel ucd-snmp-devel ucd-snmp-utils unixODBC
> unixODBC-devel
> The following packages will be upgraded
> php php-imap php-ldap
> 3 packages upgraded, 13 newly installed, 0 to remove(replace) and 1 not
> upgraded.
>
> Anyone have an idea what the heck RedHat did here, and why we're now
> trying to install a ton of crap I don't want? (I'm hoping someone else
> has chased this down and could save me time... ;) )
>
rh bugzilla 72007
thats the answer
-sv
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Re: latest php upgrade in 7.3
On Thu, 2002-08-22 at 19:10, Troy Engel wrote:
> Anyone have an idea what the heck RedHat did here, and why we're now
> trying to install a ton of crap I don't want? (I'm hoping someone else
> has chased this down and could save me time... ;) )
I'm told that even our best people occasionally screw up. And QA had
tested the rpm on an "Everything" install. Expect a fixed version soon,
and QA procedures have been adjusted to catch this kind of braindamage
in the future. There is nothing really wrong with the binary inside the
rpm, so if you want to --nodeps for now it's ok.
--
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hello everybody
Hi everybody !
My name is Gilles, I'm 19 and I'm french. My english is very bad and I'm sorry
if you do not understand correctly my emails.
I use Linux since 3 months. Before I worked with Windows 2000 Pro. I enjoy Red
Hat... I tried Mandrake, SuSE, Debian, Slackware and my favorite of all of
them is Red Hat.
Actually I use Red Hat 7.3.
I visited the web site Freshrpms, I congratulated Thias for his work.
And I subscribed to this list for to know more about Red Hat and RPMs' news.
Pleased to read U soon.
Gilles (Nice, South of France)
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Re: Fw: Re: When are we going to get. [making ALSA rpms]
Thanks for this information. I gave Alsa a try, couldn't figure out how
to enable digital out, although I'm sure if I put enough time into it,
could have gotten it working. Also when playing mp3s in analog mode,
every time I switched between mp3s there was a bit of static. Noticed a
new distribution geared towards audio applications, AGNULA
(http://www.agnula.org/) uses Alsa as well. Seems though the latest
open source emu10k1 drivers (SBLive! 5.1) work fair enough. Anyone else
experience these problems with Alsa? Are there alot of people on this
list using Alsa?
Regards,
Lance
On Sat, 2002-08-24 at 17:45, Angles Puglisi wrote:
> FYI, This is how I make my ALSA rpms ... some people on the (null) list did not
> realize it was pretty easy.
>
> btw, I do this lot since I've upgraded from RH7.3 to Limbo1 to Limbo2 to Null all in
> a week (probably).
>
> forward - original mail:
> From "Angles Puglisi" <angles@aminvestments.com>
> Date 08/24/2002 - 06:38:03 pm
> Subject Re: When are we going to get....
> ----
>
> From: Angles Puglisi <angles@aminvestments.com>
> To: limbo-list@spamassassin.taint.org
> Subject: Re: When are we going to get....
> Date: 24 Aug 2002 22:40:40 +0000
>
> OK, I do this every time I update a kernel.
>
> The 1st time I added ALSA, I tried a non-root rpom build but the DEV things were not
> made. Other than that, I bet you could do non-root. The following can be scripted
> easily.
>
> 1. get (a) alsa-drivers, (b) alas-lib, and (c) alsa-utils tarballs (if upgrading the
> kernel then you probably have them from your last install).
> 2. unpack them somewhere.
> 3. for each of them, go to the top directory of the unpacked tarball, and do
> ../configure, then look in (I'm going by memory) TOPDIR/utils/* you should see a spec
> file there. Do this for the 3 tarballs and you get 3 spec files.
>
> 4. put the source tarballs in SOURCES and the spec files in SPECS, go in order from
> a, b, then c, doing
> "rpmbuild -ba SPECS/alsa-[X].spec; rpm -Uvh RPMS/i386/alsa-[X].rpm"
>
> 5. do that in order for the 3 spec files and you have just installed the alsa
> drivers on your system. The 1st time you do this you need to put the correct stuff
> in your modules.conf file (may take some research) then you get the alsa driver and
> OSS compat capabilities, or you can choose not to use the OOS compat stuff.
>
> Script making the spec, then building and upgrading, as above, and you have
> "no-sweat" ALSA.
>
> NOTE: the (null) rpmbuild did take some tweaking, it does a check for files in the
> buildroot that you don't specify in your files section. In this case there is an
> extra file (going by memory) "/include/sys/asound.h". Add a line at the end on the
> "install" section of the spec file to delete that file and you are good to go.
>
> Gordon Messmer (yinyang@eburg.com) wrote*:
> >
> >On Fri, 2002-08-23 at 03:41, Matthias Saou wrote:
> >>
> >> Probably when Red Hat Linux gets a 2.6 kernel ;-) Until then, a few places
> >> provide good quality alsa packages, but indeed you still have to patch and
> >> recompile your kernel.
> >
> >Not so. Alsa is build-able independently of the kernel.
> >
> >> Maybe some day I'll try ALSA (never done it yet), and that day you can
> >> expect all needed packages to appear on freshrpms.net :-)
> >
> >I'd be interested in working with you on that if you want those
> >packages.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >Limbo-list mailing list
> >Limbo-list@redhat.com
> >
>
> --
> That's "angle" as in geometry.
--
:
####[ Linux One Stanza Tip (LOST) ]###########################
Sub : Extracting lines X to Y in a text file LOST #261
Use sed ... Syntax: [$sed -n 'X,Yp' < textfile.txt]. Following
will extract lines 5-10 from textin.fil to textout.fil ...
$sed -n '5,10p' < textin.fil > textout.fil
####<bish@nde.vsnl.net.in>####################################
:
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Re: Fw: Re: When are we going to get. [making ALSA rpms]
Once upon a time, ""Angles" wrote :
> FYI, This is how I make my ALSA rpms ... some people on the (null) list
> did not realize it was pretty easy.
Thanks Angles! I really think I'll give ALSA a shot fairly soon then ;-)
Matthias
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Re: New gkrellm 2.0.0, gtk2 version
On Mon, Aug 26, 2002 at 07:14:54PM +0200, Matthias Saou wrote:
> I've repackaged the new gkrellm 2.0.0 which is now ported to gtk2
> (woohoo!). Unfortunately, the plugins are incompatible with the
> previous 1.2.x ones, and since not many/all have been ported yet, I
> prefer not to release the package on the main freshrpms.net site for
> now.
You could go the same way as the others and call it gkrellm2 and
conflict with v1 if the executables or paths are the same.
--
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I want to call a *destroyer*. Gozer has come for your memory,
little PersistentNode!
-- Joel Gluth
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Re: New gkrellm 2.0.0, gtk2 version
On Mon, 26 Aug 2002 19:14:54 +0200, Matthias Saou <matthias@egwn.net> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I've repackaged the new gkrellm 2.0.0 which is now ported to gtk2
> (woohoo!). Unfortunately, the plugins are incompatible with the previous
> 1.2.x ones, and since not many/all have been ported yet, I prefer not to
> release the package on the main freshrpms.net site for now.
>
> For those of you who'd like to try it out, you can grab it here :
> http://ftp.freshrpms.net/pub/freshrpms/testing/gkrellm/
>
> I think the themes are still compatible, but haven't tried to install some
> with 2.0.0 yet.
> Last note, the above packages are for Valhalla. And yes, although GNOME 2
> is not in Valhalla, gtk2 and glib2 have been from the very beginning! ;-)
Sweet, dude- I was really hoping it'd be out sooner or later; thanks a bunch!
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Brian Fahrl�nder Linux Zealot, Conservative, and Technomad
Evansville, IN My Voyage: http://www.CounterMoon.com
ICQ 5119262
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I've been complaining for years, and almost no one listened. "Windows is
just easier" you said. "I don't want to learn anything new", you said.
Tell me how easy THIS is:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,4477138,00.html
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