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[speaker001:] hi um I'm Ralph um Cincinnati Cincinnati [speaker002:] hi Ralph um uh the the machine said that the topic was uh taxes [speaker001:] yeah um weather we pay too much or uh maybe we got back what we uh because we got I guess to die for what we paid [speaker002:] okay well I'm I'm ready anytime that you want to start [speaker001:] okay um let's see I guess we got one oh okay um [speaker002:] oh yeah go head [speaker001:] well let's see I guess uh since I'm in the process of filling them out I guess I kind of fill like uh um it's it is too much but I don't know what I uh cut out I guess [speaker002:] no I I know what you mean we're in the process of doing ours and it it it does seems like a lot uh I wish I had a better feeling for uh a better breakdown rather than oh well you know X X billions of dollars go to defense and X billions of dollars go here it it it's hard I I have a hard time conceiving of any larger amount of money then say uh really a couple thousand dollars every thing else is is like Monopoly money it it's so larger you don't really have a personal feeling for it if you go to by a new car you get a better feeling for for what's going on but even then it usually most of that is is finance through the bank and you not actually holding the money in your hands [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] but uh I Americans in general well I I would like to see a little bit better return for the the social program I actually don't mind paying taxes for things like social programs helping people out because my basic philosophy is that that most people are out to mess with the system most people actually generally want to work or want to to make themselves better and they are not lazy I don't believe that everybody is out there to rip of the system [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] but there is a hold lot of bureaucracy and so many places for the money to fall through the cracks that after a while it becomes to easy and and and people uh say well oh sure well we we haven't plan ahead so we could spend twice as much as as what we really need that's okay we will just let it go and and then it comes down to the crunch and crisis management and oh well just spend another few thousands dollars and [speaker001:] hum [speaker002:] so there there's no good handle on it no one I guess feels really responsible in those situation and all that money adds up and you have enormous cost in the government and people get angry and upset [speaker001:] hum that's interesting but uh I guess that's uh something that happen when there is so many people involved each one fill like they take a responsibility for um making sure that thing work the way there suppose to or something but um I never really thought of it that way but [speaker002:] huh [speaker001:] I guess there seems like their some programs that are more valuable and other that be that be useful to have more uh sort of tax payer involvement in some of that decision making [speaker002:] oh sure yeah I know I agree with you on that what sort of a involvement with with something like maybe oh a defenses a little hard but but what sort of involvement uh would we be able to do what type of oversight would you like to see on that [speaker001:] um I know maybe just in the point of you know having focus group with uh or elected representative will be one solutions where they actually maybe they do have more in some area of the country then then where I'm from but it's I think it's rare to actually no like you can influence what uh your representative is really doing because if you know if even if there's even a lot of writing campaign chances are there'll be a lot of letters on both sides of the issue particularly if if it is a controversial bill or something like that [speaker002:] huh yeah well here it here in Massachusetts I mean we have a just like the rest of the country we have a a server budget problem and and often here uh people are are angry about their taxes being so high and the ideal of the higher taxes is help us to pay off the high deficit in the state [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] and many people fall back on well there's money there's a lot of money being misspent its all there we do have to do anything except well it's all out there somewhere [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] and the the next step is to identify where

[speaker001:] well have you taken any vacations that you enjoyed lately [speaker002:] yes took one in October and uh drove flew into Los Angeles and drove up the coast to uh through Monterey and San Francisco and over to Lake Tahoe and flew out of Reno [speaker001:] okay so you went up like the Coast Highway for a way and then then went inland there [speaker002:] yeah uh-huh was really great [speaker001:] is is that was that a new area for you to visit [speaker002:] most of it was because I had uh seen parts of northern California and I'd been to San Francisco but never along the Coast Road [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] it was quite exciting [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] my husband said he didn't know whether he wanted to ever drive it again though [speaker001:] it's the [speaker002:] have you been [speaker001:] it's scenic I guess I I've I've been to a part of that on a trip to San Francisco I I went up just a short ways up the coast to I believe it was Point Raid uh National Seashore I think it was [speaker002:] um I don't remember that [speaker001:] and I only had about a day so it was just a short drive up from San Francisco and back when I was out out for business [speaker002:] oh well we went uh we liked Monterey very much and uh it was just kind of a relaxed pleasant town with a lot of things to see and do and and then uh the Muir Woods on the other side of San Francisco um that's another really bad drive but it's it's worth going to [speaker001:] uh the the Redwood forest there [speaker002:] yes [speaker001:] what part of the country are you from [speaker002:] originally from Texas I was raised up in Dalhart so uh anything that doesn't look like flat plains is uh like I told someone once I always thought Dallas was real green because it was the greenest place I'd ever been [speaker001:] are you currently living in Texas [speaker002:] oh yes live in Dallas [speaker001:] okay see I'm in Texas too but [speaker002:] where are you from where do you live [speaker001:] in Richardson [speaker002:] okay well you're just a a suburb of Dallas [speaker001:] that's right well we uh my family and I moved here about three years ago we lived in Colorado and [speaker002:] oh oh my [speaker001:] uh and that's a good vacation spot too but it was nice living there [speaker002:] yes yes well we uh when our children were young we used to go to Estes Park [speaker001:] yes I I didn't live too far from there in fact I bicycled from my house to there a time or two uh [speaker002:] oh how fortunate you were [speaker001:] uh from Boulder I lived in Boulder Colorado [speaker002:] yeah uh-huh that's that is one beautiful place [speaker001:] uh I I uh didn't probably take advantage of it as much as I probably would if I moved back you kind of take it for granted when you live there but [speaker002:] no yeah [speaker001:] I did enjoy the skiing and and the and the winter sports that that was available there [speaker002:] um well I've never skied my husband keeps saying we need to go but uh we have never done it yet but uh everyone who does says it's great [speaker001:] yeah it's enjoyable if you do it more than once or twice so you get past the learning stage so you can start enjoying it it's a little bit frustrating when you're falling a lot but after after you get past that it's a lot of fun [speaker002:] uh-huh you have to enjoy the cold snow in your face huh [speaker001:] well it sometimes can be yeah it it uh you can get some nice days skiing as well though if if you're not falling you can stay pretty dry and [speaker002:] uh-huh yeah [speaker001:] and uh it can be pretty nice the dry climate doesn't feel near as cold as as it does here in the winter time to me [speaker002:] yeah well I think that uh no the dampness course our humidity is sort of medium compared uh well where I was raised is extremely dry [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] but my brother lives in Houston and [speaker001:] it's the the other extreme [speaker002:] yeah so we're kind of in-between but uh my mother always said that Dallas was extremely humid to her [speaker001:] yeah it's I I agree with you it's sort of in between yeah after having lived in Colorado a lot that was a little dryer than was probably comfortable it's a bit little too dry and [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] and this is actually a pretty good climate humidity wise in in the Dallas area [speaker002:] uh-huh have you gone on any vacations lately [speaker001:] last uh uh summer we uh we went uh and took the family to Cancun in Mexico and uh we really enjoyed that trip [speaker002:] oh yeah have they uh we were we were there when it one of the first times it was open they were just building the hotels and [speaker001:] well it's pretty built up now [speaker002:] I was afraid it had become so commercialized [speaker001:] yeah it probably was more enjoyable when you went before it was too too built it's it's a real strip hotel strip now out out on that island [speaker002:] uh-huh did you go over to the Isle Mujeres [speaker001:] uh yes we we took a sailboat uh catamaran ride over to Isle Mujeres and they took us around let us shop a little while and then took us to some snorkeling uh [speaker002:] um yeah oh did you get to go out to that reef [speaker001:] spot

[speaker001:] Well, we, uh, taxes, everyone thinks taxes are too high I'm sure. But, uh, I think we do get quite a good value for the tax dollars we spend in most cases. What do you think? [speaker002:] Uh, yeah, I, I think so. I, I'm, uh, I think I'm, I think I'm, uh, a little out of the ordinary in that, that I, I, uh, I think I'm more worried about the deficit, the national deficit than, than, uh, a lot of other people are and think that we need to, we need to either raise our taxes or, or cutback on something and I don't know what to cutback on to, [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] At this stage it's hard, to tell. [speaker002:] to get, to get that, to get that settled. And, and, uh, [speaker001:] [Throat clearing]. [speaker002:] and, uh, I know I'm a real, a real, uh, out of it in terms of taxes so I'm no-, I'm, uh, think that the, we really ought to seriously consider what an income tax might do that, uh, for Texas and, and, [speaker001:] Well, at this stage I think we've taxed property almost to the limit because, [speaker002:] Yeah. I think so. [speaker001:] like the, the property taxes on the homes have reached the point that it's precluding people from being able to own a home because of the cost of the taxes on them. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] I know I live in Richardson [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] and it's up over two thousand dollars a year for taxes on my house. [speaker002:] Yeah, yeah. [speaker001:] But now we're getting public services, the schools, the hospitals and if it weren't for the taxes we're putting in there, uh, look what the schools could cost you. [speaker002:] Yeah, yeah. Yeah, now I'm, uh, uh, oh, I, we'd, when we moved to R-, Richardson, one of the reasons we chose it was for the, uh, for the schools. And, and realizing that that, that, that quality of schools might well have higher taxes than other places but that we were willing to, uh, to go for that, [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] because we supported the, [speaker001:] Then again the, the community college system here is excellent for the dollar spent, and the public, [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] colleges also, the tuition has got to be among the lowest in the country. Uh, [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] one of the, uh, I believe, I don't know which one it is, uh, down there whether it's Hobby or, uh, [lipsmack] the other ex-governor down there that are proposing doubling the tuition. Well if you double the tuition, it would still be considerably less than the public school tuition in most other states. [speaker002:] Yeah, I think that's right. [speaker001:] Yeah. That would provide, uh, possibly some relief there to utilize some of the property taxes for other things, see. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] The so-called sin taxes on liquor and the cigarettes and such as that generate a considerable amount, but I p-, eventually I think you may tax people out of smoking even. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] [Noise] I, I don't, I don't know about that, I, [LAUGHTER] I, [speaker001:] Yeah [LAUGHTER]. Well, I quit ten years ago so [LAUGHTER] I, [speaker002:] I see. Okay. No, uh, [speaker001:] I couldn't afford to start again [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Yeah, well, that, that, that would be true. That would be true. But, [speaker001:] I know, uh, my children would give up eating before they gave up their cigarettes I think. [speaker002:] Huh. [speaker001:] But all the various taxing authorities that come through, I think the one tax I resent the most though is the additional sales tax for DART which is probably never going to be in existence in my lifetime. [speaker002:] Yeah, and, and even if it is, isn't going to, uh, uh, provide you with any, any services in that it's not doing to provide a route from your, your home to a business, for instance, you know. [speaker001:] Well, this, this is a thing I think it's like, uh, back east. You had to start your public transportation when you started your cities. You can't come in afterward and really be successful or economical at it. If we had been like a Chicago or a New York City or Philadelphia or someone like that, [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] and had a public transportation system starting in the horse and buggy days [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] and when land was cheap and, uh, construction costs were cheap, you could afford it. But now, [speaker002:] And, [speaker001:] digging tunnels under Central Expressway and things like that becomes cost prohibitive. [speaker002:] Yeah, and the other thing is that when it, when it's, the public transportation is established that early on then, then the business, uh, business and residential patterns develop to take advantage of that. [speaker001:] Absolutely. [speaker002:] Whereas in, in, uh, in Dallas here we've, we've got, uh, those patterns were well established before, before we really tried to, tried to do the DART. And, uh, for instance all the, all the, the, uh, office buildings and stuff that are out here in, in, uh, north Dallas as opposed to downtown, uh, to try to, to try to provide efficient transportation from everywhere around the, the metroplex to, to, uh, both those centers of, of business plus everything else that's scattered around here and there as opposed to having a concentrated business area. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] You know, like New York does, yeah. [speaker001:] Yeah, just take like in Chicago where the people depend on the public transportation system to get them everywhere. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] New York and some, [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] people don't even own a car and know how to drive a car. [speaker002:] Right, right. [speaker001:] Someone made the analogy, uh, with Texans as being like the old cowboys and their horse. An old cowboy would jump on his horse to go across the street. Well, most Texans will jump in their car to drive across the street. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] And I'm just as guilty as anyone else. [speaker002:] Oh, yeah. Yeah. [speaker001:] I drive to work every day by myself, uh, without even, even any thought of car pooling. [speaker002:] Yeah, right. [speaker001:] [Very faint] And, uh, most people are that way. [speaker002:] Yep. [speaker001:] Because they're used to not having public transportation. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] So, but I, [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] here again I think I resented where they were collecting the sales tax for five years before they turned a spade of dirt. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] So and doing all these studies and the things we saw about them traveling to San Francisco to see whether they wanted ten foot wide or twelve foot wide cars or something. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] I felt that was a little, uh, wasteful use of the tax dollars that we were paying, you know. [speaker002:] A little bit much. Oh, yeah. Yep. Yep. Oh, the c-, [speaker001:] Well, that's about all I can say at this time. [speaker002:] Yeah, I th-, I think so, I think that will probably do it, so. [speaker001:] Okay, it's been real nice talking with you. [speaker002:] Good enough. [speaker001:] Bye. [speaker002:] Bye.

[speaker001:] All right, so, we started recording already? [speaker002:] Uh, I guess, [LAUGHTER] I don't know. It's the first time I've made a phone call on it. [speaker001:] Oh, so you pressed one? [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] Okay. So, I guess we're supposed to start talking. Uh [NOISE], what kind of books do you read? [speaker002:] I read, uh, a lot of Steven King, Dean R Koontz, uh [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] some Danielle Steel. My aunt got me hooked on those [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] So I, [speaker001:] So it's mostly all novels? [speaker002:] Yeah, they're all novels. [speaker001:] Okay. [speaker002:] I'll read some, uh, classic, too. [speaker001:] Oh, like what? [speaker002:] Uh, [breathing] like THE GRADUATE by Steinbeck. I'll, uh, [speaker001:] Yeah, I like that. I like Steinbeck a lot. [speaker002:] A, A ROSE FAMILY by Faulkner. That's one of my favorites. [speaker001:] I have never read a lot of Faulkner. [speaker002:] Oh, and this, this is more of a play or something that, that it was from, that, that I saw and I read the book from that. [speaker001:] Oh, cool [NOISE]. [speaker002:] And, by the way, my name's Bill. I'm from North Carolina [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] I'm Doug, I'm from Pennsylvania. [speaker002:] Uh, I, [lipsmack] let's see. What kind of books do you like to read? [speaker001:] Uh, well, a bunch of stuff, I guess, uh, fair number of novels, but mostly shorter ones. And, like, I don't really like the, you know, six hundred page long Stephen King novels and all that. [speaker002:] I really have to be in the mood. [speaker001:] Right? [speaker002:] I, I read one, like maybe once a year. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] I'm not as, [speaker001:] No, like, I like, say, uh, Richard Broudigan a lot. Uh, [speaker002:] I've never read anything by him. [speaker001:] Okay. He's, uh, he's dead now, but he was really a pretty amazing writer. He wrote books that were, like, pretty short and pretty easy to read, you know, like written at a third grade level or whatever. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] But they were still very heavy and philosophical, also very funny. Like, He wrote TROUT FISHING IN AMERICA. [speaker002:] Okay. [speaker001:] So that's, anyway, and, uh, I read a lot of non fiction books, too. Uh, let's see, [speaker002:] I like to read a lot of non fiction history when [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] Civil War era and, and that kind of thing. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] I found that real interesting. I'm reading THE LION AND THE WIND right now. And that was on T V. [speaker001:] Now what's that? [speaker002:] It was, uh, [lipsmack] [static] during Teddy Roosevelt's time. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] And, uh, about a American woman that got kidnapped in, uh, [NOISE] Morocco. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] Uh, this is when they were having their revolution [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] or whatever and Teddy Roosevelt sent troops over and really portrays him as a, [static] kind of a crazy man, you know. [speaker001:] Yeah [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] [Breathing] Surprised me. I had no idea that he was like that. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. What, how crazy? [speaker002:] Well, just like s-, some, one quote that he had was that he thought the America's emblem was stupid because it was an eagle, [speaker001:] [Breathing]. [speaker002:] and it should be a grizzly bear because [speaker001:] Oh, sh-, [breathing]. [speaker002:] you, you know, like the t-, t-, grizzly and stuff like that. So it's, I saw the movie and that's what made me want to read the book. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] Candice Bergen was in the movie. I'm a real big fan of hers so, [speaker001:] Yeah. Cool, see, I also read a lot of books about music because I'm interested in that and fair number of stuff about science and also philosophy things. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. I like, I like to read [speaker001:] Like, [speaker002:] some of the philosophy stuff. [speaker001:] [Music] Uh-huh. Like, let's see, and even like reading some new age things, things that I don't quite believe in, like here on my shelf I have a book called JOURNEYS OUT OF THE BODY. [speaker002:] Yeah, I think that, [speaker001:] It's all about [speaker002:] I'm fascinated by that. [speaker001:] how to have out of body experiences and all that. [speaker002:] Yeah, I'm fascinated by that. [speaker001:] Uh-huh, [breathing] yep. [speaker002:] That, and, and, uh, even stuff about, not like ghost stories, but real encounters with ghosts and [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] supposedly haunted houses. I like, I'm kind of a doubting Thomas and I like to read stuff like that. Some of it really [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] freaks me out [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Uh-huh [breathing]. Right, [NOISE] definitely [pause]. Uh, [speaker002:] And I like to read, uh, [breathing] I like to read some self help books like, uh, I read DIANETICS once, once I got past all the gibberish on it. [speaker001:] Uh, did you like it? [speaker002:] It was okay. It, it, it, it took me a while to really get into it. It, it didn't help me that much [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. I see. [speaker002:] But, uh, I think once you're set in your ways, you're set in your ways. [speaker001:] Yeah [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Uh, then I, one in-, real interesting book I read recently was, when I was looking for a job, I read, HOW TO GET THE JOB THAT YOU WANTED and, it, it had real good tips and it, and [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] I got the [LAUGHTER] job that I wanted by applying the, the methods that, that,

[speaker001:] well I don't know how you feel about this but uh it's really scary to me [speaker002:] oh oh yeah me too [speaker001:] there was a thing in our we have a little Lewisville paper that just comes out twice a week and there was a thing in there just this week saying that in all of Denton County Lewisville had the highest crime rate of all of Denton it [speaker002:] well it's not surprising considering how close to Dallas it is [speaker001:] I guess that's true but you know you've got to figure uh you've got to look at it like Carrollton is in Denton County [speaker002:] uh that's true that's true [speaker001:] you know you know and it gets kind of scary you know when you're looking at Lewisville you're looking at Denton you're looking at you know some of the larger cities and and Lewisville had more crime this last year than any of them and [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] it's just getting it's just getting really scary and almost uh out of hand you know there's been [speaker002:] uh [speaker001:] I don't know if you've heard any but any of it on the news lately or not but there's been a couple of uh you know uh a few months ago there was a deal in North Dallas where they had the man taking little girls out of their bedrooms breaking into their bedroom windows [speaker002:] yes oh yes I was living up there when all that mess was happening [speaker001:] at that time there's been a couple of those here in Lewisville over the last few weeks yeah and they're you know they're not sure if we're working with the same guy or not but uh it's really scary you know it really is so [speaker002:] is there yeah yeah it is [speaker001:] what are things like you said McKinney do you live in McKinney too are things pretty calm up there or [speaker002:] yes we uh oh yeah it's it's deader than a doornail up here we've only lived around my husband was uh transferred up here from uh [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] the North Building we're to um so it's we've been up here for about eight six or eight months an it's a lot different than Dallas yeah [speaker001:] uh-huh oh yeah yeah I grew up in I went to high school in Frisco and lived there several years so I was up you know pretty close to where you guys are and and it was always [speaker002:] uh-huh yeah [speaker001:] I don't know Frisco there always seemed to be a lot of drugs in Frisco for as small a town as it was there were a lot of drugs [speaker002:] really oh uh um [speaker001:] but as far as major crime there didn't seem to be as you know one of those nice little small towns and nothing ever happened and it would be nice to kind of get back into that so [speaker002:] um-hum yeah [speaker001:] I don't know I just don't know as a matter of fact I had uh one of these conversations the other day where our topic was uh capital punishment and you know the death penalty and you know what you know we were talking about that [speaker002:] oh yeah uh-huh [speaker001:] and one of the things that we kind of got to talking about is you know what is it we can do you know what can what can be done to stop it and I'm not sure that I know the answer to that question [speaker002:] yeah I don't know that one [speaker001:] you know I mean one of the things that we talked about that I truly believe is you know you give somebody a you know a jury convicts somebody and they give them a sixty year sentence and the guys going to be out in twelve or thirteen years you know [speaker002:] if if that long [speaker001:] yet they oh it's very wrong it's horrible you know I have I take a business law class um on Tuesday nights and my instructor is a practicing criminal attorney [speaker002:] yeah um-hum [speaker001:] and you know so he does this like everyday you know deals with this and he said you know you could pretty much if you sit on a jury know right now you could be sure that they will serve just about a quarter of whatever you give them you know [speaker002:] oh yeah why is that why is that [speaker001:] well they they say we don't have enough room in the prisons and we've got to get them out well if that's the case let's come up with some money somewhere [speaker002:] I know yeah [speaker001:] to build some more and keep these people in I mean there was a thing on TV the other night where they were interviewing it was it was a women's prison and they were interviewing these women and these women are like they asked them is this a deterrent and they all said no [speaker002:] of course not [speaker001:] I mean we're going to be out in a couple of years this is no big deal I mean this is like a little vacation we don't have to work we don't have to you know we don't have to worry about making a living you know we're fed and we're clothed and we're you know this is no big deal and [speaker002:] yeah yeah don't have to do anything [speaker001:] and you know they were asked you know well when you get out will you commit that same crime again and they said probably you know this is how we live that's how we make our living we live by selling drugs we live by stealing we live by this you know [speaker002:] yeah yeah yeah [speaker001:] so obviously the system's not working you know an uh and I don't know what to do to make it work and so you know [speaker002:] no no it's not oh it it's it's too it's too hard to enforce the capital punishment it takes it it's all all this automatic appeal stuff it just drags it out for years and years and years [speaker001:] right years and years that's something we talked about too you know if you [speaker002:] and then people forget you know they you hear oh this person's going to be put to death but you don't they don't tell you what this person has done [speaker001:] what this person had done ten years ago the brutality of their crime exactly exactly [speaker002:] yeah killed five children or something like this and and and you don't get to hear that part [speaker001:] oh that kind of wears off with time and people's outrage slowly goes away and you know [speaker002:] mine doesn't I know what you're saying [speaker001:] no mine doesn't either but with specific yeah but with specific cases people but you know the names aren't familiar anymore and [speaker002:] oh that's true that's very true [speaker001:] you know people don't remember the what happened and they don't remember the outrage they felt at the time you know that oh my God look what he did you know and [speaker002:] yeah yeah they say they'll say oh he killed a police officer you know who has a wife and three children yeah [speaker001:] yeah yeah they don't mention that part yeah that's exactly right there was a thing on the other night about they had this women uh her husband was a police officer and was killed [speaker002:] oh [speaker001:] I think brutally I mean this guy point blank just shot him in the head I mean just uh for no reason I mean he the cop pulled him over for like a manor minor traffic thing you know and [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] and uh you know they she was getting ready to go through the trial you know for this guy and you know they they asked her uh can you imagine they asked her if she wanted the death penalty and she said yes [speaker002:] oh God wouldn't that be horrible of course uh-huh [speaker001:] I do and I want to sit on the front row when it happens I want to be there I want to watch it you know and you can't blame her for feeling that vindictive you know I mean [speaker002:] uh-huh no you can not [speaker001:] and you know it showed her trying to explain to her children where daddy is you know and it was just oh it was just [speaker002:] oh boy [speaker001:] it was just horrible I mean this her little girl was like five and she was you know all of a sudden she started crying and said mommy I w ant my daddy and and you know her mommy said I know honey an oh and this little girl said uh [speaker002:] yeah and they just can't grasp it [speaker001:] said something about that man shot my daddy didn't he and the her mother said yeah honey the man shot your daddy and uh she said where did he shoot my daddy [speaker002:] uh-huh uh [speaker001:] and it was in the head and the mother said well we won't worry about that right now and she said I think he shot daddy in the face and mom said well you're right you know and she just started crying and it was just so sad you know I mean just I want to [speaker002:] uh-huh yeah oh um and how a five year old can grasp something like that is beyond is just a uh [speaker001:] no you an adult can't grasp something like that the enormity of it you know I mean I don't [speaker002:] no [speaker001:] I don't know and these poor children are going to be fatherless forever and this guy ought chances are he he'll be out he'll be walking the streets and it's just doesn't [speaker002:] yeah will be out or uh or you and I are going to be supporting him for the rest of his life [speaker001:] one of the two that's right that's right I don't know I just I know you know I look at some of the millions of dollars that we you know give to other countries every year [speaker002:] um-hum yeah uh-huh [speaker001:] and I know some of the I know those people I I mean I know they're people too and I know they deserve to have food to eat and water to drink [speaker002:] um um-hum [speaker001:] but I just want to say hey you know let's straighten out you know use that money and straighten ourselves out before we go trying to heal the world you know I mean [speaker002:] yeah yes uh too much we give away way too much in my in my opinion [speaker001:] oh we do we do we do it we really do [speaker002:] and [speaker001:] and I guess if if we would as a country unite and sit down and and if Congress received a millions of letters in one week saying we're not going to take this anymore [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] you're either you know do away with some of these laws providing this or we're going to vote you out next time maybe something would happen you know but people don't get involved and don't sit down and do that so I don't know [speaker002:] no people would rather hide their head and [speaker001:] yeah and just not pay any attention to it yeah [speaker002:] and not venture venture out their own front door than [speaker001:] yeah well we're feeding starving kids overseas but we're not paying any attention to the ones that are starving next door you know it's really sad [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] it really is I heard something that their supposed to be starting a huge campaign in New York about um child abuse and stopping child abuse and it's supposed to be like it's starting there supposed to be like a big nationwide campaign and you know so hopefully that will take off and really do something I don't know there's just [speaker002:] um-hum yeah that would be nice but you know it's like the big drug campaigns that you hear every once in a while they the big hype is at first and then it just kind of fizzles and dies [speaker001:] yeah kind of fizzles out yeah that's true that's true [speaker002:] and uh it's just it it's got to start at home is where it's got to start and [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] uh it's but then there's so many people you get so many different opinions like well you shouldn't have well I shouldn't have to have to do this or I shouldn't have to do that and all this other stuff I don't want to get involved and [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] and it just [speaker001:] I chased a bunch of kids down on Easter Sunday we had put Easter eggs out in the front yard for an Easter egg hunt for you know my son and for his cousins and stuff and [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] and uh a bunch of kids came along and just started grabbing them stealing them I went running after them screaming hey you stop you stop I called the police [speaker002:] uh [speaker001:] you know I mean there was people that laughed at me they were Easter eggs then I called the police because I figured if these kids were stealing Easter eggs at ten [speaker002:] that's theft that is theft yes um-hum [speaker001:] they're going to be stealing cars at sixteen and robbing houses at twenty one you know if it doesn't stop [speaker002:] yes well you've got to be held accountable for your actions no matter how old you are or what it is [speaker001:] that's right these boys knew that what they were doing was wrong and when I screamed at them to stop they kept running they knew what they were doing was wrong that's why I called the police [speaker002:] of course um-hum um um-hum [speaker001:] to heck with them you know the police asked me if I wanted to press charges and I said no I'm not going to press charges I wanted the boys parents to know what had happened and I want you to go to talk to their parents and I want you know their their parents to be aware [speaker002:] yes that now that's something that sure doesn't happen anymore boy when I was a kid if you did something to somebody else you got trotted over to that person's house and and you had to apologize to their parents and all this other kind of stuff [speaker001:] well this is exactly what I told my mom you know when it was all over I said if we had a decent set of parents here those boys will be back here this afternoon with money to repay the eggs and with a big apology and nothing [speaker002:] of course um-hum nothing of course [speaker001:] nothing the one girl the boys ran I couldn't keep up with them but the one girl was like carrying a two year old on her back and I was able to keep up with her and follow her until the police police came you know so we would know who they were and her mother the police called her mother to come and pick them up [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] and her mother had the same attitude as she as she did they were convinced that the absolute only reason I called the police was because she was black it had nothing to do with the fact that she stole from me [speaker002:] oh Lord [speaker001:] and the little girl told me that the only reason you called the police is because I'm black and the little two year old sister she had with her she patted her on the leg and said see what happens when your black honey you'll live with this your whole life [speaker002:] oh [speaker001:] and I told her I said honey this has nothing to do with you being black I'd follow white kids that stole from me I mean stealing is stealing I don't care what color you are you think just because you're black you can steal and nobody's going to call the police that doesn't make any sense [speaker002:] no ugh [speaker001:] you know oh it was just horrible and then the mother's attitude the mother looked at me and goes well what is it that you want do you want me to pay you for your eggs or what you know it was that kind of attitude you know I mean it was just bad and I thought you know the parents went home and you know the kids [speaker002:] oh

[speaker001:] a uh Golden Retriever [speaker002:] ooh that's one of my favorite kinds of dogs how long have you had it [speaker001:] yeah is it really we've had him for let's see he just had his fourth birthday [speaker002:] fourth birthday [speaker001:] yeah and we got him when he was about eight weeks old and uh he's pretty okay we like him [speaker002:] does he shed a lot [speaker001:] he does that's the one thing we don't like about him in fact we threaten him in the summertime that we might just shave all of his hair off he'd probably look pretty funny if we did that [speaker002:] how much does he weigh now [speaker001:] he actually he just went to the vet yesterday to get his shots and everything and they put him on the scale and he's up to ninety four now [speaker002:] oh [speaker001:] but he's not a real he's not a real tall uh dog for a Golden Retriever he's kind of stocky shorter and stockier [speaker002:] hm is he good with family [speaker001:] he is it's uh just me and my wife and uh he's kind of our temporary substitute for having kids I guess we treat him like our kid right now so he's spoiled rotten [speaker002:] yeah I can understand that [speaker001:] because I you can get away with that a little bit more with pets than you can with kids how about you [speaker002:] um-hum well we have a cat who's also about four years old and he's our spoiled child right now too and he also sheds a lot [speaker001:] uh uh-huh yeah [speaker002:] but we uh we hope to get a Golden Retriever someday but we figure we'll get the kids and then the the dog [speaker001:] that's probably a good idea they're good though uh have you ever had a Retriever before [speaker002:] no but my husband had one when he was growing up [speaker001:] because I I find that they're good around other animals like cats and other dogs they don't tend to get real jealous or territorial they like to play [speaker002:] hm [speaker001:] and especially with kids they love to play with kids in [speaker002:] is is your dog an inside and outdoor [speaker001:] no he's pretty much an inside dog [speaker002:] hm [speaker001:] he stays in we we're kind of in a not a real busy neighborhood but more so than I'd want him to be out too much and he doesn't like it if we tie him outside he's he's really a wimp [speaker002:] oh really [speaker001:] and when it comes to being alone uh now if you give him the freedom to walk around and go wherever he wants he likes that but he does not like to be tied outside he'll he'll just bark and bark and bark [speaker002:] huh when he gets outside does in does he run away and then eventually come back or [speaker001:] no he's uh taken to the training pretty well and uh he knows where our yard is and we have a pretty small yard but he seems to know the boundaries [speaker002:] hm [speaker001:] and he usually is good about staying within them although our next door neighbors have a dog too and uh she she is good friends with my dog [speaker002:] oh yeah [speaker001:] and so he often gets to smelling her scent and will go over there to sniff around and stuff but he's pretty good he stays out of the street and uh if I catch him I call him and he comes back so he he's pretty good about taking to commands and things [speaker002:] hm did you bring him to a doggy obedience school or just train him on your own and [speaker001:] no we never did I I trained him on my own and uh this is the first dog I've had all my own as an adult [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] we've had kids or we've had dogs when I was a kid but this this is the first one that I uh took in so I wasn't sure if I'd be able to get it all right the first time but uh he he seems to have picked it up pretty well I never really had to hit him or anything just you know firm tone of voice [speaker002:] uh-huh huh amazing [speaker001:] and those sorts of things I I see other people out there and they hit their dogs and try to and and those horrible collars that they put on them with invincible invisible fencing least I think it [speaker002:] invisible what [speaker001:] invisible fencing have you heard of that [speaker002:] no what is that [speaker001:] it's uh it's a system you can put in your yard where you bury these little uh transducers or emitters in your yard at the perimeter and then they wear a collar with a special little attachment on it [speaker002:] oh [speaker001:] and if they get too close to that perimeter it it zaps them yeah yeah [speaker002:] huh boy I'd be afraid to walk around if I was that dog [speaker001:] yeah well a friend of mine at work here said that he tried it with his dog and he wanted to see what he was subjecting his dog to so he held on to the collar and he walked out to the perimeter he said it was a good jolt [speaker002:] oh really [speaker001:] yeah so I I don't take too well to to those sorts of training techniques I don't think they're always necessary if you put enough patience into uh [speaker002:] hm yeah just be consistent and diligent with it and [speaker001:] um-hum it's uh is your cat an indoor cat or an outdoor cat [speaker002:] hm yeah he's indoor and all declawed because I know the uh average life span of an outdoor cat is eighteen months and [speaker001:] somebody just told me that because of the leukemia [speaker002:] yeah yeah that and also just um getting hit I guess or getting beat up and the average life span of an indoor cat is eighteen years [speaker001:] wow quite a difference what uh what kind of climate do you have [speaker002:] so yeah well um it's we just moved recently so now we're in the um Dallas area and it's very very nice and [speaker001:] oh

[speaker001:] well Tom just tonight I was working on my car out of necessity and I had uh uh had a long age old problem of my bright lights not working uh this is the type of uh switch where you flip the the lever the turn signal on the column [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] and when I would uh put it in the bright light position the lights would go out completely which is even worse than them just not getting bright [speaker002:] exactly [speaker001:] and I had presumed that it was the switch and uh this is uh an older car it's a seventy two MG so I had to mail order the part uh which I had done and tonight I went out and uh at least hooked in the new part only to discover that that apparently is not the problem it's not in the switch because it does the same thing with the new switch [speaker002:] oh [speaker001:] so I'll be faced with having to return that product and uh hoping that uh you know that they will accept it although it's been removed from the box it's obviously not been really used [speaker002:] did did did you do the diagnosis or or was it just an assumption that that's probably the part that failed [speaker001:] uh I had done what diagnosis I could primarily by looking at a wiring diagram that I did have of the car [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] and uh pretty much decided that that had to be the problem I talked to one mechanic about it and he suspected the switch also uh but I've not you know I really don't know what the problem might be it it the other switch could be the main switch itself uh that turns the lights on or off which is on the dashboard [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] uh it might be tied into the equation somehow but uh [speaker002:] yeah I know uh when working with the uh flashers there is uh usually a a special fuse that operates the flashers do you have a separate fuse for your high beam as opposed to your low beam [speaker001:] I I don't know I should look at that I don't remember seeing one in the uh in the the diagram but I'll have to go back and look at that [speaker002:] diagram yeah I don't even know if my current cars have a separate fuse I know sometimes when you think there are uh things running while they're at the same unit like the headlamp [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] you tend to think well there's one fuse operating the whole thing but sometimes the extra amperage that a high beam drives as opposed to a low beam requires uh the use of a of a maybe a higher fuse [speaker001:] yeah that's a good idea [speaker002:] so that's a possibility [speaker001:] what I've typically found when that uh companies are pretty good about accepting returns on products like that when they're not needed after all and I hope that that's the case this time [speaker002:] is this a a mail order parts house that specializes in in parts for uh old imports [speaker001:] right exactly it's out of uh Kansas [speaker002:] um um so it's not J C Whitney or somebody like that [speaker001:] somewhere no it's not I also got a piece of chrome for the the hood that they had indicated was the right part for this car but it is not either it's obviously doesn't quite fit so it must be for a different year so I'll have to try to return that as well [speaker002:] yeah have you found any uh uh reliable import service people in the metroplex [speaker001:] well I had one person that I used for years and years on this car because I've owned this car since it was new and uh but it's over like in the Brook Hollow industrial district down on Stemmons and Inwood area [speaker002:] oh yeah uh-huh [speaker001:] and I hadn't used him for some years and the last time I called him back it turned out that he had further specialized instead of uh all import cars he has narrowed it down to where he only works on uh German cars and German cars I'm not sure that he works on much else at all but he doesn't work on British cars any more and gave me the name of somebody else to take a look at it [speaker002:] I'll be darned [speaker001:] so uh uh I may have to check with that person as it turns out that one that shop is near where I now work so I'll uh I should be able to take it in and check that part out I've not had to to exchange any other parts recently uh because they were defective now I've had had pretty good luck I just however did uh have to get a a uh one of these jam box portable dual cassette players uh repaired I'd purchased it at at Sam's and I had assumed that it had a ninety day warranty and I should have checked more carefully and done a better job of saving the receipt [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] because uh I didn't take it in right away and let a whole year go by uh some of the buttons didn't work right where you had to actually physically hold them down to get it to record or to play and as it turned out it had a full year's warranty and I could have gotten it repaired for free but I had to take it in while it was in the shop I ended up finding the receipt that I thought had long since been lost [speaker002:] oh my goodness [speaker001:] uh but it didn't do me any good because I had I had missed the window by about a week or two so I didn't even I didn't really uh even bring it up when I went in to pick it up [speaker002:] oh no [speaker001:] but uh that's really my only experience in the past year where I've had to take a product back because of a defect [speaker002:] well ours wasn't within the last year I guess it's been within the last two years Judy has an Oldsmobile that we bought new and it's one with the uh electronic ignition and the computer controlled mixer and uh I don't know what else it all controls but the fuel mixture and cruise control and things of that sort and we found that the uh uh we were having two problems it was idling fast when you first started the engine to the point that we park on a hill under our car port and when you first dropped it into geared it would immediately want to back up into the alley and knowing that you always had to keep your foot on the brake hard otherwise it would just wrench control away from you [speaker001:] good grief [speaker002:] and the other problem Judy would have is occasionally she would uh be driving along uh decelerating like coming to a stop sign but not yet stopped at the stop sign and the engine would just quit [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] so we took it back to the uh Oldsmobile place and asked them to check it out and at first they thought it was just a matter of timing so they adjusted timing and the problem didn't go away so we ended up taking it back again I don't know why they don't look at these things the first time around but the second time around they looked at their uh recall service and their uh service reports from region or headquarters whatever and and they had a description of the exact problem we were experiencing that apparently was a programming error in the uh computer control unit which fortunately they replaced under warranty because it was about a three hundred or three hundred and fifty dollar part [speaker001:] huh my goodness [speaker002:] and uh so once they replaced it then the the car seemed to work fine [speaker001:] huh [speaker002:] for a considerable period of time and now it seems to be we don't we're not experiencing the stalling but we're still experiencing a very uneven

[speaker001:] okay Bill um as you think over the plans and so forth that the company you're working with now who do you work with this time [speaker002:] well I own a company [speaker001:] you own the company alright [speaker002:] I'm the president and CEO of the company [speaker001:] my goodness [speaker002:] so uh I guess uh I determine what the benefits are [speaker001:] yeah I guess you do hum [speaker002:] but uh you so what are you asking me what what benefits I think are most important [speaker001:] well what what do you think of the let's put it this way what do you think are the most important benefits for those working for you other than other than their present salary [speaker002:] um I'd say in today's economy uh besides basic benefits uh such as um health insurance and life insurance and the uh some type of retirement plan [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] I'd say that uh most of the employees uh um that we have really like a a profit sharing plan [speaker001:] a profit sharing plan that's interesting um-hum [speaker002:] they like to participate in the profits of the company like they're part like you know because they feel like well we're contributing to it so we'd like to participate in it and so that means I make a little bit less but the thing is that really you make a little more because everybody has a interest in in it working [speaker001:] yes because they they have a specific reason to do so because they themselves benefit from doing a better job [speaker002:] right I think most people uh don't want money um it's been my experience most people want uh to feel like they're participating in something that uh that is not a drudgery you know that they can enjoy and that they can get some benefits out of [speaker001:] um-hum and it's a contribution [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] well Bill uh that idea fits me exactly I just retired from uh the university here and that's been the goal of my life was to contribute and um to the work that I was doing in my research and that's what made me happy and uh that's the type of goal I think most people ought to look for and I'm sure a lot of them don't you can't stand in front of a counter and do that kind of stuff all day and feel like that you're contributing something to a scientific level of knowledge or so forth [speaker002:] yeah well uh our people get a lot of satisfaction um we're a financial planning firm [speaker001:] you're a financial planning firm how many uh [speaker002:] uh yes so you said you retired I just happen to have a person that I happened to do some planning for this morning but anyway uh [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] uh we do we deal with a lot of people that are uh retired or trying to retire [speaker001:] um-hum oh [speaker002:] and uh it's real important uh that their benefit plans that they get from their companies and from their work that where they were that uh um that it take care of them they don't none of them really want to be rich but they like to have enough to be comfortable [speaker001:] well what what changes would you have have you considered uh in in doing it to your to your company that might benefit the employees or perhaps the company itself better [speaker002:] well um we considering instead of tying a profit sharing plan to a a salary is uh is tie um uh a percentage um of business that uh that a person would participate and bring into the company uh pay them uh based on the percentage of business they bring instead of based on their salary and the result [speaker001:] when you say bring in do you mean that they negotiated with people to to come in and uh ask for your support [speaker002:] no not necessarily um it can be in house people who help you handle X amount of dollars [speaker001:] oh okay um-hum even though they didn't bring it in they help it once it's there [speaker002:] right well see we have different we have marketing people and then we have uh financial planners [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] and uh then we have uh staff secretaries and administrative assistants and these secretaries and administrative assistants um you know that if we don't have their cooperation and they're not participating in the profit of the company they they can get very dissatisfied very quickly [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] and so uh we're thinking about paying them instead of a percentage on salary paying them a percentage on the business they handle so administrative assistant that would handle two million dollars worth of business is a lot more valuable than a person that handles a hundred thousand dollars worth of business and uh [speaker001:] yes but it it might not be necessarily because he did a good or bad job but it might be whether the locality locality there those people want that kind of support [speaker002:] well and and and but to see the thing is that they give support to the financial planner that they're the assistant to or that they usually have several people they report to that you know that they work together with [speaker001:] um-hum um-hum [speaker002:] uh it encourages them not to uh complain when they realize that they get a part of the of the action based on their efforts not based on being sitting back saying well make me do it [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] see we don't want anybody around here that says make me do it I don't think anybody any I think most people want to be [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] lack a better terminology terminology they want to be self employed but they don't want to take the risk in other words they like to control their own future but they also want to be somewhat content to go and come as they please [speaker001:] that's true [speaker002:] without some real strict adherence which that's what we have [speaker001:] um-hum

[speaker001:] well do you have any uh television programs that you watch regularly [speaker002:] oh this is kind of tough I don't too often watch you know shows that are on on a regular basis [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] I don't have a lot of time and I don't really like some of them to tell you the truth I mean I don't think they have any redeeming value [speaker001:] no [speaker002:] but uh oh I watch things like uh Sixty Minutes every week uh [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] ooh it's kind of tough to think of some of the others although I do watch some of some of those frivolous things uh like on Thursday nights at nine o'clock when I get home from aerobics I will watch uh Knots Landing [speaker001:] oh you will [speaker002:] yeah just something like that for you know uh end of the evening type of thing but uh [speaker001:] relax [speaker002:] how about you [speaker001:] well I watch um I like news programs like you mentioned and sometimes I will watch um like the cable news network evening news program [speaker002:] um yeah I don't get that so I don't have that choice [speaker001:] yeah I I like that I I watch that a couple of times a week um it comes on like at nine o'clock at night and I really don't have any like situation comedies that I watch regularly I I have seen that um [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] Murphy Brown that comes on Monday nights before and it's kind of cute and but I don't [speaker002:] uh-huh yeah yeah there's a couple of those I've seen once in a while uh I can't think of the name of the one that has the uh military [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] uh fellow I mean he's playing a military part he's the husband of the girl on Designing Women [speaker001:] oh the uh-huh right I know who you're talking about I haven't I have seen it I think maybe once [speaker002:] yeah you know it was it was on one time when I saw it and you know it it's pretty cute [speaker001:] I like that well I um I we really don't watch too many programs regularly my children like some of the morning children's shows when they're home they um I just have one son who's in kindergarten so in the morning they will like to watch like um [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] Eureka's Castle it's called it's just like a Sesame Street show but [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] and they watch a couple of shows like that but I don't watch any daytime TV at all [speaker002:] yeah no I don't [speaker001:] and uh [speaker002:] I guess uh there's some uh things on channel thirteen that I watch pretty regularly [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] on Saturdays they have uh a variety of things uh and a lot of times I record it and watch it some other time but uh [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] they have programs on uh house repairs and how to build things and um they have a calligraphy show and I do calligraphy so I watch that [speaker001:] oh oh that's nice [speaker002:] and um they have a lot of cooking shows [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] and oh you know I'll just sort of have it on sometimes to just sort of pick up little tidbits from those I don't sit and watch them but but I enjoy some of it and especially if I'm uh cooking on a Saturday evening or something and one of those is on it kind of inspires me [speaker001:] that sounds like a good idea I notice that um since we moved here that we we did get the cable TV and when the newspaper comes out on Sunday I sometimes read through the movies that will be listed [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] and I record some and then uh we have just totally cut down and we never go to like a video tape rental anymore because there's always plenty of things that we can record and then watch and then record over it something else [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] and so that's been really nice because if you decide one evening you would like to stay home and have a quiet evening and watch a movie then you have two or three saved [speaker002:] yeah we do some of that in I'm fact I probably am more interested in watching some of the movies that are on TV than you know other kinds of things [speaker001:] uh-huh well that's probably what I watch most frequently besides like news programs is the movies and they have a couple of channels that are like nostalgic older movies [speaker002:] yes [speaker001:] that I have really enjoyed that I'm seeing for the first time like the Marx Brothers and things like that [speaker002:] yeah yeah those are pretty good I I like those old ones much better than some of the new stuff [speaker001:] uh-huh right and so we we have really enjoyed that and it's really nice not to be running out some of the video rentals can be expensive and [speaker002:] yeah well going to the movie can be unbelievable [speaker001:] and um-hum right going and paying six dollars for a ticket for one person at the theater or something so we I have and it's so convenient at home and you can do it anytime you you take the notion [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] and so I have really enjoyed that but but there are I do have friends that watch programs like they want to see a particular program and they are either home watching it or definitely recording it they have some programs that they won't miss [speaker002:] uh-huh I'm not that hung up on most things I mean if I miss something big deal [speaker001:] yes well and things are repeated [speaker002:] yeah that's true [speaker001:] so often that you know if if I have seen just a program once chances are it'll be that exact same show if I ever decide to tune it in again [speaker002:] yeah yeah [speaker001:] the only one I've ever seen and it'll be showing again pretty funny [speaker002:] yep [speaker001:] but uh TV is something that we try to not um deliberately try not to get hung up on it like you say [speaker002:] yeah we do too it too many other things to do and too much going on [speaker001:] um-hum and we don't want our kids to to grow up thinking that that's what you do with your spare time [speaker002:] right I agree [speaker001:] so it's a little bit something we try doing and there's there's a lot of good children's programs that you could watch they could watch several hours every day [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] and you could say oh that's a good program for them because it's educational but still you want them to go out and do other things even if they're good programs you don't want them sitting there watching them [speaker002:] right yeah [speaker001:] anyway well [speaker002:] okay well we probably exhausted that huh [speaker001:] yeah that was pretty good I I like that and um I guess it's time to go [speaker002:] okay I enjoyed talking to you [speaker001:] yes nice to have spoken with you too bye-b ye [speaker002:] okay good-bye

[speaker001:] okay [speaker002:] alrighty I think one of the most significant changes that have happened is that they've changed from homemaker to the work market and for several reasons probably some of that is divorce [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] and some is they're more educated than they used to be I think [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] um I think sometimes uh leaders in government they've become more uh adroit in that area too instead of just men all the time have more women in government [speaker001:] um-hum um-hum [speaker002:] and now I'll let you say something [speaker001:] well uh I probably a little bit older than you are so what I see um is the change that I see the most is the is that um women have much more many more occupations and careers to choose from than when I went went to college when I went to college you could be a teacher or maybe a nurse or a secretary or but there were very few women in business at that time a few but they were the oddity and [speaker002:] very limited [speaker001:] yes and now I see and and I see for my daughter which is wonderful she's thirteen and I see a whole wonderful world out there that she can choose from so many different jobs which I think is terrific because [speaker002:] uh-huh yes [speaker001:] I'm a teacher and I mean I love teaching but though I think there are a lot of other things I would have liked better and um [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] not that I would give the career up because it's it's a safe career plus because I always have a job plus I am a single parent too and I and I need the income [speaker002:] um-hum right [speaker001:] but uh and I think that's a reason why a lot of women have have started to work too is because economically it's just a must [speaker002:] I think that's right [speaker001:] uh you just it's very difficult to get along on one income unless uh the male uh has an extraordinarily good job [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] and especially men who teach school they don't make that much money and and most all they always either have they're either moonlighting or else their their wife works too [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] um it's just an economic need now [speaker002:] I really think women have so much more responsibility than you know as far as everything [speaker001:] oh definitely [speaker002:] and like you said um one women today have so many uh the average today of having a a single family you know with the mother as the head is just really um [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] so commonplace nowadays [speaker001:] oh yes exactly we have uh quite a few teachers at our school that are single parents and [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] uh the majority is uh married couple with children but still there's a lot more than there used to be and see you never picture yourself in a situation like this when I married I thought I'd be married the rest of my life [speaker002:] right right [speaker001:] and uh but I'm all I'm really grateful that I went to college my mother always said you know get an education in case you need one because my father died when we were I have a twin sister and we were eleven when he died she had a nursing degree and she was able to make it but she said in just you never know what's going to happen and I thank God that I did go to college and got a degree because otherwise I don't know how I would be able to raise my children [speaker002:] um-hum you know isn't that funny uh because the same thing happened to us except I was twelve and my mother had a nursing degree and was able to make it in her profession and was isn't that funny [speaker001:] isn't that something yes [speaker002:] uh but just that they were able to do it you know and even today I think the chance for education is is so much uh better for all of our girls and and boys too but but the girls especially [speaker001:] yes oh yes yeah I do too but I think it needs to continue to change and I mean I think it there's still not equality as far as uh paychecks for men and women I think that the we still have a long way to go [speaker002:] a lot of things yeah [speaker001:] um-hum and I think that uh uh I think by the year two thousand it we're going to see some a lot more changes uh hopefully that women are you know able to get the the executive jobs and hold positions that men [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] men do because they can do it just as well you know if they want to dedicate their uh most of their time to that they're they're they can do it [speaker002:] yeah and I also think that in the future that uh it's gonna continue that we're not gonna see a lax off of women in the work force I think they're going to stay there and I think that they're gonna [speaker001:] hum-um [speaker002:] uh be really responsible and and do everything just like what you said you know make make it the grade and and make it so women can be the top people in their in their field [speaker001:] exactly exactly and I think that's the way it should be I think it I mean not that I I think that I'm equal to men because there's a lot of things that men can do that I [speaker002:] oh I think so [speaker001:] could never do strengthwise and so forth but also there's some things women can do like have children that men can't do [speaker002:] right right [speaker001:] so you know it it I don't want I don't want to be equal but I I want to be I want to get what I deserve and I want to be able to be on the same level with them if I can do a job as well as I man I think I should get the same pay you know [speaker002:] exactly exactly [speaker001:] yeah and I just I'm not a women's libber I really am not but I I think that well that we have just as many rights as they do and I feel like if there's a qualified woman to do the job and if she's good or better than a man then she they should get the job with the same pay [speaker002:] that's right and I think that is happening more and more I think it's just gonna take a little bit longer [speaker001:] I do too oh I do too definitely definitely [speaker002:] well great okay [speaker001:] well it was good to talk to you [speaker002:] good to talk to you Sally thanks bye-bye [speaker001:] all right bye-bye

[speaker001:] shall um actually actually I've had I've had very good luck on consumer products lately [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] um you know just about I've I've uh gotten recently it's been a new mother board for my computer and that's working fine [speaker002:] uh a new motherboard [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] okay [speaker001:] because my my other one bit the dust after after a power failure [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] so I I got a you know a very inexpensive motherboard from someone in California very happy we were very fast [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] other other than I'm I'm in house conservation buying anything [speaker002:] oh yeah [speaker001:] how about you [speaker002:] I'm not buying much in terms of consumer products these days uh I prefer to travel rather than buy things so [speaker001:] yeah I I hear you there the I I guess you know given a choice most people are kind of holding off on [speaker002:] uh right [speaker001:] getting anything um I'm trying to think back in mind if there's ever been anything anything I got you know the the things I've been most disappointed with is that when you go those time share gimmicks [speaker002:] exactly yes [speaker001:] and and you get you get like the the quality luggage which is like yes you too can have vinyl you know wallet [speaker002:] um right or from the sidewalk vendors that are supposed to be the real thing [speaker001:] right you know I I find there's that you just have to be really careful because like especially if you watch TV there's like all such of scams going on where you know like uh you you really have to listen to what they're selling you I mean there's a lot of things like um [speaker002:] oh [speaker001:] God you you like you know yes you can get whole sacks of beef you know delivered fresh to you if you buy our thousand dollar refrigerator [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] or um you know all all these multilevel marketing things [speaker002:] all of the well have you noticed even the the newspaper coupons do that [speaker001:] they they're tying them in now [speaker002:] you know right you can get fifty five cent off if you buy two and something else [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] and not anything that you want [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] so I mean if you use the coupon you're just falling for the gimmick and there you are [speaker001:] like you know we've I'm getting married this summer and we're going to like wedding expos and things to get fashion and half the thing's like yes we'll give you a free makeover we're Mary Kay cosmetics and [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] you know once your name on you our mailing list you know you're damned for life because [speaker002:] oh that's right that's right [speaker001:] or or you you know or all these little I really think multilevel marketing is undermining the quality quality of American business because people getting so focused on the progress other than the products [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] you know it's it's like well you know I could get two hundred distributors on to me each selling one dollar a week and I'll be rich but [speaker002:] yeah oh all those pyramid schemes [speaker001:] yeah that's what multilevel [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] you know Amway and uh Al Williams insurance which I guess is Primerica now [speaker002:] and right and even somewhat is Mary Kay you know she's a local girl [speaker001:] Mary Kay you know they they're something yeah oh do oh we we have Dallas to blame for Mary Kay [speaker002:] yeah I'm afraid so sorry [speaker001:] but yeah I I I find that you know the place where uh I I think the the the one one place were we uh you know consumer price I did fairly well I was leading electronics industry [speaker002:] yeah except that I was with a friend yesterday we had his Macintosh [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] and he had taken it back to the store for repair [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] and the vendors are not living up to the contracts that they get with you for so I mean this is a this is an expensive piece of equipment [speaker001:] too expensive in my opinion but [speaker002:] yeah well whatever but it's what he wants because he's an animator [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] and he's using all of those tools and he's having a really difficult time with the hardware and the vendor that he bought it from gave it back to him yesterday charged him forty five dollars and told him that it was a software problem [speaker001:] oh no not that [speaker002:] oh yeah [speaker001:] oh actually actually you know it it's like I have yeah I've I've got a VCR and recently it kind of just capped out on me [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] and you know I typically when your VCR breaks what you have to do you have to like give it to these guys for weeks [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] and then eventually they'll get get it back to you but I happen to know this guy who I met met recently he just like took it down to his basement popped off the cover you know took a couple of things off so okay this is just junked up cleaned it out it's working fine didn't charge me anything [speaker002:] oh [speaker001:] you know I think that the service the really where the American consumer products uh kind of failing is is in the customer service [speaker002:] oh exactly and and you know there was no reason that Mike should have had to pay forty five dollars for somebody to run a diagnostic that he had already run and he already knew that it wasn't a software problem [speaker001:] right I I mean the best example I guess I guess there's some really it's not um uh the the chain the some really luxurious uh department uh department store in in Texas

[speaker001:] Okay, um, what do you think about the war recently? [speaker002:] The war? [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] You mean in terms of the economy or, [speaker001:] Uh, the economy, the, our soldiers going over, uh, [speaker002:] Oh, [speaker001:] just everything. [speaker002:] I thought we were going to talk about social changes. Is that, is that what you're kind, [speaker001:] Yeah, [speaker002:] of directing it, [speaker001:] yeah. [speaker002:] Oh okay [lipsmack]. [speaker001:] Yeah, [speaker002:] Okay well [LAUGHTER], [speaker001:] that's the first thing I thought of [LAUGHTER] I don't know. [speaker002:] Um. Well, I think it's caused a lot of, you know, big difference between when people had gone to war before, [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] like compared to Vietnam because, [speaker001:] [Very faint] Right. [speaker002:] I mean, I know that there was so much more support for the soldiers going over, and even people that didn't agree with the war still seem to be able to separate that, [speaker001:] Right and, [speaker002:] you know, and support the soldiers, so. [speaker001:] I know that, uh, I've heard people say that you know when people that went to World War Two you couldn't become a political figure or president unless you had [baby crying] served in the war, [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] but then in Vietnam that was totally different, you know, you couldn't be a political figure if you were in Vietnam probably. [speaker002:] Yeah, [speaker001:] And now, [speaker002:] yeah. [speaker001:] if you've served in Desert Storm you probably would be a, a good candidate. [speaker002:] Yes, it would be like a bonus for your, [speaker001:] E-, [speaker002:] image or something. [speaker001:] exactly, exactly. [speaker002:] Yeah [breathing], it, I'm sure it caused a lot of changes in terms of how many families had to have their income, [speaker001:] Oh, torn apart. Oh, yea-, [speaker002:] just drastically altered. We had people down the street that the guy was in the reserves and he was just about ready to go and they have a, just had a new baby, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] and, uh, they would have, she would have had to go back to work and, [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] I think she said their income would have dropped by like two thirds. [speaker001:] So it, that's also a good reason why it, it, or good that it ended as soon as it did. [speaker002:] Yeah, yeah. I think the biggest change that we've seen, um, in, in my life or whatever lately is the economy, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] and things are so tight, and like my husband hasn't gotten a raise in two years and, [speaker001:] Exactly, [speaker002:] you know. [speaker001:] and it seems like everything is raising, every-, everything that can be, cigarettes, [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] not that I smoke, but cigarettes, um, uh, stamps, I mean it seems like ever-, [speaker002:] Even dog licenses [LAUGHTER] I mean, [speaker001:] Exactly, everything single thing that we do, [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] is higher, [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] you know. And they just raised the minimum wage today but that's not like, you know, [speaker002:] Going to effect too many, [speaker001:] as much as they should have raised it I'm sure. [speaker002:] Yeah, yeah. [speaker001:] But, uh, [speaker002:] So, that's the hardest thing for us and, um, we've been trying to kind of maintain traditional lifestyle in the sense of meaning home. We have a three year old and a two year old and I'm trying to stay home as long as I can, [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] but, you know, every week [LAUGHTER] it gets harder because I could go out and be making money, [speaker001:] Right. Right. [speaker002:] you know, so that's a big, uh, stress I think, [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] you know, for the social changes in our family. [speaker001:] I don't, I don't have any children or anything right now I'm, uh, I work as a news reporter in Waco, [speaker002:] Oh, [speaker001:] and so, [speaker002:] I see. [speaker001:] I get to see, I got to see a lot of not firsthand [NOISE] but, uh, probably a good part of the war, um, as far as what people thought about it, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] and a lot of things like that, so. [speaker002:] Yeah, yeah. Well i-, [speaker001:] It was kind of amazing people were coming to me to ask me, you know, what's going on, you know, like I knew, [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] or like I sat in on the meetings or something. [speaker002:] Yeah, you have an inside track or something. [speaker001:] Yeah, yeah. So, I got to hear a lot of what the people thought about, you know, changes in, in the war and everything, so that was pretty interesting. [speaker002:] Yeah, yeah. Let's see, what other social changes in the past ten years, oh, I guess between men and women I've seen a lot of changes, [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] in terms of women feeling like they have to have a career, be mom, be, [speaker001:] Exactly, be everything, be supermom, [speaker002:] everything, superperson [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] exactly. [speaker002:] Yeah, because I know, you know, I, I really get pressure from, because I have a career also, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] and I get a lot of pressure from people that, you know, my colleagues that why am I staying home. You know, [speaker001:] Right. And, [speaker002:] whereas before that never would have happened [LAUGHTER], [speaker001:] Whereas it would have been, [speaker002:] people would have said, why are you going to work. [speaker001:] Exactly, um. [speaker002:] So, that's kind of a difference for us. I think there's more pressure to, um, not necessarily a negative thing but on my husband to be more involved with the family. [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] So he's, [speaker001:] The roles are changing a lot. [speaker002:] Yeah, he's gotten a lot, uh, you know, you see all kinds of men being involved in the housework and taking care of the kids and all, but in terms of his amount of hours at work, nothing on that has lightened up. [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] So, it's now he has the pressure too of being superdad and supercareer and, [speaker001:] And even, you know, I think a lot of the movies we see now kind of, kind of play a good part in our changes because, you see that they have THE THREE MEN AND A BABY type movies. [speaker002:] Yeah, that's true, [speaker001:] And I think, you know that, [speaker002:] MISTER MOM and, [speaker001:] yeah, and then you have the women, uh, detectives now and, you know, different roles, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] just in what we see and so we probably want to do that even more now. [speaker002:] Yeah, yeah. [speaker001:] You know since the women's movement in the, wh-, seventies, [speaker002:] That's true. [speaker001:] and, you know, we've come a long way but I think it's still a, still have a good ways to go. [speaker002:] Yeah. Yeah. [speaker001:] So, [speaker002:] I think there's still, I, I know that, um, I grew up in Chicago in the sixties, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] and was part, my family was real liberal, and I think there's a lot of, um, kind of myths that we've come a long way just in terms of our society, [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] and race relations and things like that, and, you know, I think there's so much prejudice still there, [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] and it's kind of more covert now. People used to be more clear and say, [speaker001:] Exactly. [speaker002:] you know, well, I believe in this or I believe in that, [speaker001:] Exactly. [speaker002:] and now, you know, I think there's still tremendous amount of prejudice, [speaker001:] It's just not as, [speaker002:] but people think, oh, we're in the nineties, we're beyond all that, you know [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Exactly. But it's, I mean like I say, we've come a long way, but we have, I mean, twice as far to go, [speaker002:] Yeah, [speaker001:] still, [speaker002:] yeah. [speaker001:] and I don't think a lot of people, you know, realize a lot, the plight of a lot of people. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] You know, and you may be in good standing and everything may look hunky-dory to you, [speaker002:] But there's so many more people, [speaker001:] but there's so many more people, [speaker002:] that are homeless and, [speaker001:] exactly, that you don't even, *slash marks right? Should there be one after 'exactly'? [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] and that you don't even see or know about. [speaker002:] Yeah. It's real easy to get isolated in your own little community, [speaker001:] Oh, oh, yeah. [speaker002:] you know, because wh-, when I was growing up in Chicago, um, we were in a real ethnic neighborhood and there were people from all, first generation Chinese, German, {D you know } all different nationalities, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] and everything. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] And now we're kind of like in Lewisville, Miss White Little suburbia, [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Yeah. [speaker002:] you know. I mean I don't even know anybody that [LAUGHTER], [speaker001:] [Very faint] Yeah. [speaker002:] you know, from any place other than Texas hardly, [speaker001:] I grew up in, [speaker002:] you know. [speaker001:] in Brooklyn, New York, [speaker002:] Oh, boy. [speaker001:] and so I was just, I was just surrounded, you know, by Black people, [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] because I'm Black, and so, you know I lived, that's where I lived. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] And so now, I, I feel lucky actually because I've almost lived around everyone. I've, I went to U T to college, [speaker002:] Oh. [speaker001:] and so they, you know, they have a lot of different people go there, [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] different kinds of people. And so I feel really enriched in that a lot of people don't get to see, [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] you know, some people have lived in Lewisville all their life, you know, [speaker002:] Yeah, and they, [speaker001:] and so they don't get to see, [speaker002:] they think the whole world, [LAUGHTER], is like that. [speaker001:] Exactly [LAUGHTER]. And th-, [speaker002:] We lived in a dorm. My husband and I met in graduate school, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] at Indiana University and I was, ours was, uh, international co-, you know, co-ed dorm, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] and there were twelve hundred students, they're graduate students from all over the world. And once we came here it was like, gosh, I just miss that, [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Exactly. [speaker002:] because it really is exciting, [speaker001:] It is. [speaker002:] to be around people of different cultures and different backgrounds. We got invited to, one guy practically roasted a goat in his, in his dorm [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Oh, my God. [speaker002:] I wonder if he was from, Iran, or some place, I don't know where but, um, you know. [speaker001:] Well, there's so many people who have never, you know, even gotten to do that, [speaker002:] Yeah, [speaker001:] so that's great. [speaker002:] yeah. [speaker001:] My sister was telling me she met a gi-, she's going to the University of Pennsylvania in, in Philadelphia, [speaker002:] Oh, uh-huh. [speaker001:] and, uh, she just met a girl from, um, I think, Barbados or Jamaica, or something, [speaker002:] Oh. [speaker001:] like that. And I mean this girl she had like two outfits that she would just wear all the time, [speaker002:] Yeah, [speaker001:] and everything and, [speaker002:] yeah. [speaker001:] she got some kind of money from her government like five hundred dollars. So my sister had to take her shopping and, you know, show her what to wear, show her how to match up colors and, [speaker002:] Oh, God. [speaker001:] I just thought that was so very exciting, [speaker002:] Yeah, yeah. [speaker001:] you know, to go and, and just witness, you know, this girl just coming to America type thing, you know. [speaker002:] Yeah, really [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] So, you know, I would have loved it, the opportunity to do that, [speaker002:] That is part, [speaker001:] but, [speaker002:] of the change I think that I've seen probably, you know, in the past twenty years or whatever, is now kids have to have so much. I mean I even get caught up in it with our kids, [speaker001:] Oh, yeah. [speaker002:] even though I buy most of the things at garage sales for their Christmas, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] I mean, people ha-, you know think they're kids have to have five, [LAUGHTER], hundred dollars worth of toys. [speaker001:] the latest cereal about, you know, th-, [speaker002:] Oh, yeah, it's just, [speaker001:] Yeah, that's ridiculous, [speaker002:] it, it's, [speaker001:] too. When I first moved here I was only thirteen but, everyone had a car in school, you know, [speaker002:] Oh, gosh. [speaker001:] and I couldn't, and I just couldn't belie-, you know, I was from New York and so, you know, we road the bus. [speaker002:] Yeah, me too, [speaker001:] And if you had a ca-, [speaker002:] in Chicago [LAUGHTER], [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] I didn't even date a guy that had a car until I was in college [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Exactly. And if you had a car y-, there was nowhere to park it anyway or, you know, it's just, you just didn't have a car, [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] but then we came here and they had parking lots in the schools and I couldn't understand it. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] You know, all the kids had cars, [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] and they, you know, have to have a car. [speaker002:] Oh, gosh, [speaker001:] So that was, [speaker002:] my kids are going to be hating me, [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] I'll give them a bike and say, [speaker001:] Yeah [LAUGHTER], yeah, right. [speaker002:] here's it so you can afford to pay the insurance, [speaker001:] Really. [speaker002:] you know [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Or live really close to school and have them walk. [speaker002:] Yeah, no, [speaker001:] But, [speaker002:] kidding. [speaker001:] uh, yeah, a lot of changes. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] So, [speaker002:] Well [lipsmack], did we cover it everything Betty [LAUGHTER]? [speaker001:] I think so [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] Okay. I guess I'll get back to my laundry [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Okay, well, it's good, it's good talking to you. [speaker002:] You too, good luck. [speaker001:] Okay. [speaker002:] Bye-bye. [speaker001:] Bye-bye.

[speaker001:] Okay, so I think, I think what we should talk about is, uh, the war. [speaker002:] Okay. [speaker001:] The war that just went on. See, I, I don't agree with it. First of all I don't believe in war. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] And then, the United States has this attitude by saying, you know, thank you for keeping us our freedom and stuff like that. And I think it's all independent because, it's, it has nothing to do with the United States. You didn't gain anything from it. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] And it wasn't our freedom that you were saving. It was just, [pause] the thing, the thing that, that, that I saw was okay, Iraq wants to raise oil prices. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] Kuwait wants to take Iraq out of the whole system, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] by leaving them independent. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] And so, when Iraq, you know, saw this, they said let's take over the country, which is a good idea, right? [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] Then the United States says, okay, our, our oil prices are going to go up. And like for example, see, okay, like Lith-, Lithuania right, they declared themselves an independent country with a president, right. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] Russia goes in there, well the main government in Moscow goes in there and they kick everybody's ass. And the United States doesn't go in there and say, listen, they were, you know, named an independent, you know, state with a president and everything but we're not going to go into your country. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] But these countries here, which, you know, are, you know, like in NINETEEN EIGHTY-FOUR, have you ever read that book? [speaker002:] No, huh-uh. [speaker001:] Okay, NINETEEN EIGHTY-FOUR there are like three big continents and, uh, there's just this area, like around Egypt and stuff, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] that everybody's fighting over. Now the problem is, is that nobody's going to invade anybody else's boundaries. [speaker002:] [Clink] [squeak] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] Right, like their immediate boundaries. Like you're not going to go, you know, it's like the Army's not going to go straight into Russia because there you're, you're invading their border, right. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] But all the other countries, you can fight about. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] And so the thing is, is that you're wasting so much money to send, you know, it's like how much money did the U S spend when they could have paid so much money for each barrel of oil that was being, [speaker002:] We'll probably never know how much it actually cost. [speaker001:] And you know, it's, it was basically all based on oil because nobody actually, like for example, if, uh, let's say if, you know Brazil took over you know, Surinam. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] I don't think anybody would care. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] You know, and, uh, that's something that, that has been, you know, very, because, see the thing is, is like every time that I see a war, I see myself on the front line, and on the other side I see myself again, and I've got to shoot myself, you know. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] [Throat clearing] I got to shoot somebody that's got the same family that I do. You know, the same relationships that I do. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] And just because I was born here I've got to shoot them down. [speaker002:] Uh-huh, oh, it's never a pleasant thing, that's true. [speaker001:] And, uh, but at least it was, it was over quick and there weren't that many deaths. [speaker002:] Yes that's, [speaker001:] Now the only problem is, is the aftermath, [speaker002:] Yes. [speaker001:] that you're having so many deaths in the border with, uh, Turkey. [speaker002:] Yes, that's really unfortunate, it really is. I don't know if we stopped too soon, I don't, I don't, I really don't know what we need to do about that. [speaker001:] Well, the-, there's something that, that the U S did right which is say, say, you know, okay, let's kick him out of Kuwait, which was our basic goal. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] And, uh, now, indirectly let's try to overthrow him, you know. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] And they're not going to do that directly. But the thing is, is that, they, they didn't go into, into Iraq and say, you know, because they have the force to go in there and say get out of the country. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] You know, you can seek, seek asylum here, [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] and you can go there, but no way are you going to rule ever again. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. I've been hearing some talk too of trying to bring Hussein up on, you know, criminal charges. I don't know if that will ever happen or not. [speaker001:] Well the thing is, is that first of all they got to, they go-, they have to get him. [speaker002:] Uh-huh, which is very difficult to do. [speaker001:] And, and there's no way that you can get them, unless it's by force. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] You know. And then you can put him on trial. [speaker002:] Obviously, he's not going to turn himself in. [speaker001:] No, no, I think, I think he'd rather commit suicide than turn himself in, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] because there's, I mean there's like, it's like there's no hope, you know, like what Hitler did, you know. You know, like if you were going to put on trial you get to live the rest of your life, but where. [speaker002:] True, yeah, uh-huh. [speaker001:] You know, and so, um, the thing is, is that [throat clearing] once you've done something wrong, which is natio-, [speaker002:] [Door]. [speaker001:] you know, internationally recognized, then you're going to try to get out of it and the, there's no way, you know. [speaker002:] Yeah, true. [speaker001:] And especially since he's got inside Iraq for using, you know, chemical weapons and stuff. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] And you know like he sent planes over to, to shoot the people down that were on the border with, uh, tha-, that were on their way to Turkey. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] He had a couple of them bombarded. [speaker002:] Yeah, yeah, obviously human life means nothing to him. [speaker001:] Huh-uh. But, uh, you know, he's got, uh, millions of dollars, like, [speaker002:] Oh yeah. [speaker001:] th-, I think it was like, I don't know if it was fifty billion or fifty million, which is really, doesn't make any difference [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] That's true. Past a point it doesn't make any difference. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] Yeah, that's really, really unfortunate. It really is. [speaker001:] But it's just, it's just that, uh, you know, i-, you know, like the, we just put our goals in different, you know, levels is like saying, you know, it's like yeah, sure, we need oil, you know, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] and we need it desperately. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] But the other countries, that, you know, that have oil but not as big, you know, like they say, you know, like when the prices went up and then they went down. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] When they took that big dip it was because they discovered another big oil well somewhere in Saudi Arabia, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] or something. [speaker002:] Seems like the prices never go down to where they were originally, though, before, before the increase started. [speaker001:] Well, th-, it, its an advantage. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] You know, it's like you're saying, okay, I can bring my prices up to a dollar fifty a gallon and I'm not going to bring them back down to, you know, ninety-nine cents. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] Why, because people are willing to pay a dollar fifty a gallon, so if I di-, leave it at a dollar ten, people are still going to pay. [speaker002:] True. [speaker001:] You know, I went down forty cents, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] but I went up ten cents. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] About the lowest I've seen gasoline in the Dallas area is, uh, I guess, about ninety-two point nine now. [speaker001:] Ninety-eight? [speaker002:] Ninety-two. [speaker001:] Oh, God. Here it's like, it's like a dollar five. [speaker002:] Oh really. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] Well there's still a lot of dollar five places here but you can find some that's under a dollar, but not, not a whole lot. That's the lowest I've seen. [speaker001:] But still the, I mean, have you ever checked, like, uh, the most money-makers in, uh, in nineteen, uh, ninety. Uh, you can see that, uh, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] Exxon and Amaco and uh, other companies, {F oh God, I forgot their names, } but, uh, Exxon was the number one money-maker, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] and that was just because of, of the last quarter. [speaker002:] Right, I think Mobil was doing very well, too. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] Well als-, I, I assume all the major, major brands are. [speaker001:] And, uh, that was, I mean and what other companies are, went up four hundred and some percent. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] And that's practically impossible to do now a days, for a company to, [speaker002:] That's true. [speaker001:] to shoot up in that way. [speaker002:] Yeah, yeah, that's true. [speaker001:] And, uh, it's just that, you know, people, people take advantage of that. You know, like the, the companies are saying we're trying not to raise our prices but when, you know, when we get a barrel coming in at more than what we're selling it for, we've got to raise our prices. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] You know, but still if you realize that, uh, one barrel has {D like, how much was it, like, } um forty gallons, [speaker002:] Yeah, something like, yeah. [speaker001:] it's got forty gallons and they're selling, you know, you know, you got to pay forty dollars at least and, [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] you know, for, uh, for one gallon and it's, it was selling like at twenty-five or something. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] So you're making, uh, you know, fifteen dollars profit, easily. [speaker002:] Yeah, yeah, sure. [speaker001:] And, uh, everything, I mean, and, and, the expenses, you know, of the war, you know, it's like, uh, it's like who's gaining on this. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] Okay, because, uh, i-, does, does the U S government own any gas companies, like, like, you know gas stations and stuff? [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] I, because, see like for example, I don't know if the British government owns Shell. I'm not sure about that. [speaker002:] I'm not sure either. [speaker001:] But the thing is like the U S government got nothing out of it. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] Because, well, you know, it's like oth-, the other independent companies, the gas stations, you know, they did. And, uh, then the taxes go up and then everybody else loses. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] But, um, you know, they're just, they're just some things that might not be worth it. [speaker002:] Yeah, that's true. [speaker001:] You know, and, and first of all how many, how many people had to, had to die before the war, you know, it's like transporting stuff and things like that, [speaker002:] Uh-huh, yeah. [speaker001:] before, you know, it's like yeah sure, you know, like to, to a couple people that died there, their families don't feel it was necessary to do that. [speaker002:] Sure, dead's dead. [speaker001:] Yeah, yeah, you, you could, you could never bring them back. [speaker002:] That's true, so. [speaker001:] Oh well. [speaker002:] Well, I don't guess we resolved anything but it's interesting. [speaker001:] Yeah, so, okay, nice talking to you. [speaker002:] To you too, take care. [speaker001:] Bye-bye. [speaker002:] Bye-bye.

[speaker002:] okay uh let's see when it comes to to uh sentencing I I'm a little confused because the the only things that I read about sentencing and juries well the only things I know are the things that I read and the things that I read are are either how should I say it they're they're written by people that that have an axe to grind so if somebody thinks that the judge is judges are too lenient why I read all kinds of let's throw them all in jail and then if I I've you know I've I've read other things that I I wish I could see a uh an informed uh discussion as opposed to just what I see these days as one side you know some one side's mad [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] and uh so I uh I I guess what I'm trying to say is uh I have mixed feelings because sometimes I think that the judges um are overstepping their bounds and they shouldn't be the the juries should be the only ones that uh have a say in it and other times I think well no the juries are out of hand the judges need to step in [speaker001:] yeah uh you know the it comes down to a hard call because um I now I'm personally have never served on a jury uh I've been in school and so that's waived my jury duty and so exactly some of the procedures that they go through for the jury uh as far as sentencing goes I'm not real clear on but from I understand there's sometimes whenever the juries make the verdict I mean the uh the sentencing and sometimes they don't [speaker002:] on the case I've remember reading a a discussion about a jury that that uh heard a case and they and they awarded uh uh how should I say it they agreed that the one person was guilty and they and they agreed that the fine should be so much and then the judge came along and set aside the judgement which the way the article was written was a terrible injustice [speaker001:] oh really [speaker002:] uh but like I say I uh there's I rarely see uh both sides of that I just hear about it from one side I don't hear the other side the the one thing that I am kind of upset about is the fact that juries are selected [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] uh to be the lowest uh how should I say this they have any opinions at all they're weeded out been one or the other of the uh of the lawyers [speaker001:] oh yeah yeah [speaker002:] and so to be honest with you I've I've uh I don't think that's right and if I ever am called to be a a juror and they ask me if I have strong opinions I'm I'm just I'm not [speaker001:] you'll you'll probably be weeded out huh [speaker002:] well I I I if I answer honestly if I answer honestly I'll be weeded out if I if I just like looked at him and say uh no I don't have strong opinions because I feel like you know I want to be part of the process [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] and uh like I say it bothers me that that the that the lawyers can weed anybody with a college education or anybody uh oh let's say with a with any college educations you know much schooling or certain uh uh backgrounds like for instance if you're a if you've go to church once a a a month or something like that why they don't want you on the jury or you know things like that it it bothers me that that that we're judging people on the basis of of uh what do you call it uh [speaker001:] on on on what they do and and [speaker002:] no well what I'm trying to say is the jury jurors are selected to basically be from what I've been told milk toasts if they have any opinions if they could understand anything an engineer could never be uh a juror for instance because he's he's uh he's not easily uh persuaded or or or how shall I say this this it's easy to hoodwink or it's it's hard to hoodwink him that kind of thing [speaker001:] persuaded yeah yeah yeah [speaker002:] so that's what I'm kind of worried about [speaker001:] well I think in a way it also depends on what kind of trial it is um because sometimes you know if if it's dealing with with a more technical thing such as like a malpractice not not like a criminal suit you're going to have to have somebody that that can understand the uh like the medical or the legal implications [speaker002:] right uh that's what you want but on the other hand if the lawyer thinks no I don't want a bunch of people in here who are going to be able to weed their way through [speaker001:] you know [speaker002:] uh you know to weed the good from the bad they will absolutely go for people who uh how should I say it the scrub the scrub women and the the janitors I'm I'm [speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh [speaker002:] trying not to be prejudiced against them but you know any any education will disqualify you in in many cases I've been

[speaker001:] well what do you like to read [speaker002:] uh I read about just anything that I can get my hands on [speaker001:] you sound like me if it's printed I'll read it [speaker002:] exactly [speaker001:] yeah it's amazing to me the people that uh I've I've got a brother and sister-in-law that uh like whenever I go to visit them I'll always have to be sure and carry a book with me because there's nothing to read in their house and I go crazy [speaker002:] yeah I I pretty much carry my own reading material too I mean I'll uh I'll be walking to work I mean walking to the elevator to work and I'll be reading a book on the way up in the elevator and everybody laughs at me [speaker001:] you know yeah well I I went to the library yesterday looking around and I found this uh new book by PJ O'Rourke called uh uh Parliament of Horrors and it's about uh [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] it's a humorous humorous attence attempts to explain the entire US government and it's really cute [speaker002:] hm [speaker001:] but anyway he wrote for Rolling Stone magazine for years and years I think he still does [speaker002:] uh-huh is it a is it a satire or [speaker001:] it is very much a satire [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] well I like I said I I I gosh I can't remember the last book I bought but I've read so many and any book my mother usually has a stack at her house so I'll go and pick up one over there and or several actually and just get through them one by one mostly I like I don't know I suppose uh mystery or history true history [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] that type of thing [speaker001:] most ladies do like mysteries a lot I have I have a friend too is a voracious history buff she just she reads one history [speaker002:] yeah um-hum [speaker001:] book after another and and I was telling her about the library here in Houston that has uh one particular library that has all of the mysteries arranged in one area uh and then another one that while they're not arranged in one area they do they have question marks on the covers to indicate that they're mysteries and she said oh that sounds like heaven to her so she wouldn't have to have to look for them [speaker002:] um-hum that's true no I can't say that I've been to the library lately I've found quite a bit I mean I'm either reading a newspaper or a magazine or like I said anything I can get my hands on [speaker001:] yeah the only problem that I've got now is that uh I take a daily paper and then I've got oh I don't know four or five magazines coming in and then of course I've always usually I'm in the middle of two or three different books at the same time [speaker002:] exactly [speaker001:] and I've found lately that uh that I I feel God for some reason I feel kind of bad about it but I'm not able to get through the newspaper I mean and I and and then if I'm not finished with it I don't want to throw it away and then all of a sudden it's the next day and then it's the next day [speaker002:] uh uh-hum [speaker001:] my kitchen counter is covered with magazines newspapers so I finally just you know make a run to the dumpster [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] but [speaker002:] I uh I well I end up just picking out key sections and reading those and the rest of it if I get to it fine if not [speaker001:] hm yeah yeah the only really the only the only day that I just uh devour it cover to cover is on Sunday but that's sort of a ritual with me get the coffee and a bran muffin and the newspaper and [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] the turn on the stereo and I'm just I'm I'm set for about an hour [speaker002:] an hour is that all [speaker001:] well maybe a little more at least an hour at least an hour [speaker002:] yeah well I know my dad gets both I mean he gets the two Dallas papers here and he he sits down for at least about three so me I don't know I don't I don't sit specifically sit down on Sundays to read the Sunday papers sometimes I don't get to it till like Wednesday [speaker001:] yeah yeah well that's the good thing about the Sunday paper though they have so many articles that aren't necessarily uh you know you don't feel like they're [speaker002:] but eventually [speaker001:] old if you don't get to them that on that one day [speaker002:] exactly exactly [speaker001:] well I uh I don't know I had bought books for years and years and uh the last time I moved when I was transferred to Houston I uh filled up one big closet with books because where I live now doesn't have a bookshelf doesn't have doesn't have the book shelves that I had in Dallas where I moved from [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] and uh I don't know see I've I've just I've got such so many books and moving them was such a pain that I've really stopped buying so many and I started going to the library again which uh I hadn't done in fifteen years you know and it was kind of like an awakening I thought you know gosh this is free it's amazing so but I've enjoyed it and I [speaker002:] um-hum yeah it's it's really a much better idea it's a bit inconvenient for me but I've I've always told myself I'd do that because I don't know I get the books and then after I read them if I really like them I'll keep them but if if not you know it's it's wasted space for me so I end up giving them away [speaker001:] yeah yeah but um I've got I'm kind of sort of surrounded I've got three different libraries that are within oh I don't know it's uh I guess the furthest one away is maybe two miles one of them's only about a half mile away the other one's about a mile and a half [speaker002:] well that's good [speaker001:] and it and one in particular stays open until uh nine o'clock [speaker002:] hm [speaker001:] Monday through Friday so it's you know it's great and that makes it it it you know if they were just regular hours then it would be difficult because I'm usually work pretty late at the office but um [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] anyway that uh I still like to go to the bookstores and browse around but uh [speaker002:] well I'll I'll read the reviews [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] and if they end

[speaker001:] Okay, Eric. Uh, are you married and do you have a family? [speaker002:] Uh, yes I am to, uh, both questions. [speaker001:] Okay and do you and your wife have a budget plan for your finances. [speaker002:] Uh, yeah we do. We, uh, uh, basically there's the, you know, the expenses that are fixed during the month [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] you know the ones that come every, every month and we, uh, enter those into, uh, into a spread sheet [smack] and, uh, whatever is left, uh, after that we, [speaker001:] [Throat clearing]. [speaker002:] you know, we sit down and agree on kind of what, what sort of range we are going to [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] generally going to shoot for. [speaker001:] I see. Uh [throat clearing], [speaker002:] [Smack] So what do you do? [speaker001:] Well, that's basically what we do. Uh, about every, every three months or so, [inhaling] we re-evaluate our budget and we sit down and just write from the largest bills down to the smallest [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] and then we divvy them up between our four pay checks. I work part time at night [speaker002:] Wow [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] and he works, and my husband works full times days and so we have four checks, but that works out nice because we get paid every week {C and [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] so } that does help, [speaker002:] [Inhaling]. [speaker001:] that helps a lot. And then, uh, we don't have a lot ex-, extra for extra spending, [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] so it's pretty well [LAUGHTER] ear marked. [speaker002:] Yeah. All allocated out. [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Yeah [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] Yeah. Every penny is ear marked but, uh it, we have found that works the best and [talking] and so if we can just divide them up, all the major bills up. In fact, we found it easier to divide the major bills up, you know, cut the house payment in half and cut the loan payment in half, but [talking] and divide those up between all, uh-huh. [speaker002:] All the checks, yeah. [speaker001:] And so we are not taking a huge sum out, out of one and then the next pay check we're real short or, [speaker002:] Right. Yeah, we found that, uh, [speaker001:] [Throat clearing]. [speaker002:] it's definitely helped, uh, get a handle on kind of the unnecessary expenses. [speaker001:] That's true. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] We were, before we started doing that kind of a thing, we were, uh, [talking] [smack] spending, uh, money for things that, you know, we kind of tended to eat out a bit more [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] than we should have, [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] [Talking] and it was easy to, uh, let things get out of hand. We thought it [talking], uh, thought it to be really helpful. We have gotten some of our loans paid off really [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] because of this and stuff like that so, [speaker001:] Well, it helps you to focus where your money goes [speaker002:] Yeah [LAUGHTER] [speaker001:] and and I am sure you felt the the same frustration before you got on a budget, but you're [talking] wondering my, when you put down all the money that you do bring in and then you're saying, my word where did all that money [speaker002:] That's a lot of money, but [LAUGHTER], [speaker001:] go. Where does it go? [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] Uh [speaker002:] But, [speaker001:] and also we have found that if we write down, and we did this. We are not real consistent with this, but we did it for about a month and we wrote down everything that we bought [NOISE] when, you know, every pay check [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] and so we could see where every penny went and it was really interesting to see [throat clearing] just what you do spend and like I say we haven't been real consistent with it. It's, we should cause it does help. [speaker002:] Yeah, the other, the other thing that that we've found that helps is, you know, we tend to fudge on the budget a little bit [speaker001:] Uh-huh [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] it's just to, uh, uh, get up the money in advance and put it in, uh, uh, so long as it wasn't you know, unreasonably high, but for things like food expenses [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] or whatever. Just put it in uh [talking], [speaker001:] [Throat clearing]. [speaker002:] in an envelope or whatever and that way it kind of forced us to, uh, [NOISE] stick to that amount. * Should end with a slash. This is an independent clause, as is B's next turn. [speaker001:] Wel-, just stick to that, uh-huh. That is, [speaker002:] And then once that was gone, well [LAUGHTER], * should be start of a new slash unitsee B.58 utt2 [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] if the entertainment amount was gone [speaker001:] Yeah. That [speaker002:] for the month say, oh, it's gone [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] that sounds like a really good idea. [speaker002:] So. [speaker001:] And it really helpful. Uh, have you developed a savings plan or I R A s or anything like that yet? [speaker002:] We, we haven't. We our our initial goal was just to retire debt, uh, completely retire debt for car payments and [speaker001:] Oh, uh-huh. [speaker002:] credit card [talking] [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] uh, credit card debt and all of that. We are just at a point where, where we could start thinking about it so [inhaling], [speaker001:] Oh that's good. That's a good feeling [throat clearing]. [speaker002:] Yeah. Well I [very faint], [speaker001:] [Smack] [inhaling] My husband just graduated from the university, uh, [smack] a year ago [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] so finally [LAUGHTER] [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] A student. [speaker001:] finally we are getting to that point too. So, are you still going to school or, [speaker002:] Yeah, I am actually in the, [talking] in the mas-,

[speaker001:] do you have a favorite basketball team [speaker002:] Lakers [speaker001:] the Lakers LA [speaker002:] yes I'm from LA [speaker001:] okay uh how they doing this year I'm not I haven't even been following them very much [speaker002:] they're okay they're not um out of anything yet they're still hanging in there [speaker001:] I know they lost recently to the Bucks in Milwaukee [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] that's that's where I'm from so [speaker002:] yeah yeah that's about the I like the Lakers and uh Mavericks are okay but they they got a lot of problems [speaker001:] Mavericks do have problems without Roy Tarpley they're not going anywhere [speaker002:] and see I don't think they should build up on one person like Chicago with you know with Michael Air Jordan and that's not good Lakers got so many different players [speaker001:] yeah they do they always seem to get the talent there [speaker002:] um-hum I guess that's why I like them [speaker001:] well they I think yeah I think Milwaukee got lucky because Magic Johnson sat out that game [speaker002:] yeah yep I'm not too much of a basketball fan but you know I watch a lot I watch different games like [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] play-off games and stuff like that [speaker001:] do you think the Lakers can win the championship this year [speaker002:] no not since they're coach is gone [speaker001:] you don't like Mike Dunleavy [speaker002:] no [speaker001:] yeah he didn't they didn't let him have quite the the flair that uh Mike Riley had [speaker002:] huh-uh Mike Riley was it and that's [speaker001:] well Dunleavy's a good coach though he was [speaker002:] he's good it's just he's not he's not Riley and I think that's the biggest problem is eventually they're going to have to figure out what they need to do and catch on to each other [speaker001:] yeah well he doesn't have that Hollywood attitude [speaker002:] huh-uh would uh [speaker001:] no I'm pretty familiar with with Dunleavy because he was an assistant at Milwaukee [speaker002:] oh was he [speaker001:] uh yeah and he uh when when they had uh injury problems with some of their major players uh he actually put on a uniform and went out and played [speaker002:] oh my goodness [speaker001:] they they signed him to a ten day contract and uh he became a player even though he's assistant coach [speaker002:] huh-uh that's all right then [speaker001:] the guy knows basketball I think he'll do all right for the Lakers [speaker002:] huh boy you you like basketball though don't you [speaker001:] oh yeah oh yeah it's fun I'm watching the I'm I'm busy watching the NC double A tournament uh the past couple weeks [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] and the NIT semifinals are on tonight [speaker002:] yeah see now I watch the the Final Four [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] once it gets down to like the Final Four [speaker001:] yeah right so are any of those teams of interest to you [speaker002:] UNLV I like them [speaker001:] oh yeah well they're they're just [speaker002:] I guess because well that guy is from Dallas that's probably about the only thing yeah that's it that's the only reason why I don't know anybody else [speaker001:] Larry Johnson right well they're just head and shoulders above everybody else this year [speaker002:] are they really [speaker001:] oh yeah they're they're so much better than anybody else it's uh that they're prohibitive favorites in winning all their games [speaker002:] but then you know just like that man said in this final in these in the NCAA whatever it is the little play-off games they play so many sometimes I do think it's going to be more it's luck and ambition you know [speaker001:] right well it's it's just unbelievable how many games they play in in college now Arkansas played thirty four games this year that's almost half of a pro season [speaker002:] yeah see that's that's too many games [speaker001:] it's too many for students [speaker002:] you know and and then they supposed to be studying [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] you know [speaker001:] they're talking tonight about this NIT game with Stanford and Massachusetts that the Stanford players actually took their final exams while they were on the road playing basketball [speaker002:] uh-huh are you serious [speaker001:] they have an honor system there where they would they had uh three hours to take their exams they sent them in by uh by fax and uh I guess by they used laptop computers to uh to get their exams finished [speaker002:] uh-huh hum [speaker001:] send them out by Federal Express and fax machine [speaker002:] I don't think that's good [speaker001:] yeah it's incredible that uh that they have to do that I mean some of the the schools give you a break they give the students a break where they can take their exams when they get back from from a tournament [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] but uh these guys were actually on the road uh two thousand miles from from home when they had to file their uh their final exams and send them in [speaker002:] yeah I don't think that's I don't think that's good [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] that and then you know the laptop that's how I guess they really stuck it on a disk the teacher you know with no answers and they could take it like that and then just print it out in fax and it would be okay because you can put it on a you know on diskette [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] and just have them take it but then who's helping them [speaker001:] yep I don't know so do you think uh you think Vegas is going to win the finals then [speaker002:] see now that's yep [speaker001:] I think so too they plaid Duke and uh Duke has a lot to uh to atone for here last year that lost to Vegas in the finals by thirty points [speaker002:] in that the other one that upset that was an upset was Kansas last night [speaker001:] Kansas is a real surprise I didn't expect them to get that far [speaker002:] when they yeah I didn't think they was going to beat that team I don't remember the team but they shouldn't have beat them [speaker001:] uh they beat Arkansas yeah [speaker002:] I didn't uh yeah that that I like I like Arkansas [speaker001:] Arkansas just uh they had a rough second half [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] they came out uh real hot in the first half Todd Davis hitting his three pointers [speaker002:] and it was like they just died or something you know [speaker001:] yeah uh somebody took the fire out from under them they they weren't getting their shots anymore [speaker002:] huh-uh and [speaker001:] and Kansas just crept up on them and uh uh it was unbelievable because they they did that a few years ago too when they were seated a lot lower and they won the the championship [speaker002:] that's it um-hum see now that's the that's the thing now [speaker001:] but I don't think they [speaker002:] everybody's waiting for UNLV [speaker001:] yeah well they they are just that much better they've got so many stars [speaker002:] and see if Kansas if Kansas yeah but then you know it could be what if they're not hitting that night or they're low or anything and see I I feel like the college you know it's kids it's still kids [speaker001:] well sure I think anybody can can win on a given night but they have so much talents and the average age on that team is twenty two years old they've got a lot of fifth year seniors that are playing [speaker002:] so yeah they just take them out think that that'd be all right [speaker001:] guys that are playing for long time uh they're playing Duke uh this weekend uh the average age on Duke's team is nineteen years old [speaker002:] um-hum um-hum [speaker001:] Vegas the average age is over twenty two so they've got just so much more experience than anybody else in the tournament right now but they're going to lose all those guys at the end of the season they're going to all turn pro I think Stacy Augmon's a senior and Larry Johnson I don't think I think he's uh is he a senior or junior [speaker002:] yeah who [speaker001:] I'm not Larry Johnson I think he's coming out this year [speaker002:] he's yeah he's coming out in the pros this year [speaker001:] uh-huh and Anderson Hunt all their uh their best players I think are graduating [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] well maybe not graduating but at least they'll be entering the the pro draft [speaker002:] I don't I think I think he's going to move I think he'll probably go he now Larry Johnson is definitely going to the pros [speaker001:] oh yeah for sure yeah [speaker002:] and uh there's some more that I don't I can't think of their names God my girlfriend she she gets me because I can describe them go you know that guy you know and she'll name them for me [speaker001:] George Akals and Stacy Augmon [speaker002:] yeah now they'll come out in the pros [speaker001:] Anderson Hunt [speaker002:] they'll come out [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] they're half they're team is going to be gone now and see that's another thing for next year with UNLV they're not going to have no team [speaker001:] uh well I wouldn't say that I I think [speaker002:] well I mean as far as the the top players you know like the ones they have this year you know [speaker001:] yeah their coach may not be there I think Jerry Tarkenyon may be headed for the pros [speaker002:] yeah he's nice [speaker001:] there's some talk that he may be uh coaching for the LA Clippers next year [speaker002:] uh the Clippers that's another team and I don't think they've ever done anything [speaker001:] they have a great amount of talent but they just have poor coaching I think [speaker002:] but um no coaching yeah that's all right [speaker001:] they've got some great players on that team [speaker002:] that be all right between them and [speaker001:] I just think that yeah [speaker002:] then there's that uh let's see I like the Lakers Milwaukee Atlanta Hawks I like them too [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] I like probably uh the Houston Rockets shocked me the the I think it was last year when they uh last last year they beat LA last year [speaker001:] uh-huh well Houston's playing really well lately [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] last couple of weeks anyway since Akeem [speaker002:] because I know my sister's in LA see and she calls me up and tells me well LA's going to come down there and beat up on Texas you know and I said yeah and so when they came down so what happened it took them a long time they beat them [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] but it was like four out of the three seven games they had to play the seven games for the for the thing you know just to beat them so it was like one game over [speaker001:] sure I think Houston's playing really good ball lately [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] ever since Akeem changed his uh first name to Hakeem he added the H to the front [speaker002:] his attitude I don't know I don't know them people [speaker001:] well uh I can understand that it's uh I don't know why he dropped it in the first place but uh [speaker002:] I don't either if it was his name he should have just kept it I you know that's your name that's your name [speaker001:] sure so who do you think's going to win the NBA this year [speaker002:] hopefully I don't think the Lakers are going to win but I think um oh what's his [speaker001:] Portland Portland's looking awfully good [speaker002:] no not Portland what's that team with the little guy with uh the no Isiah [speaker001:] Isiah Thomas Detroit [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] Detroit Pistons they're not as good as they were last year [speaker002:] I don't know I think they'll go I think they'll they're good but they're not great but I think they'll [speaker001:] they'll have to pick it up in the in the tournament then [speaker002:] but I think that's what usually happens to them [speaker001:] Chicago's playing really good ball with Michael Jordan [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] and I think they finally put things together [speaker002:] yeah they did good last night last night they had like a hundred and something to eighty so they they was playing real good last night [speaker001:] yeah well Chicago they they've been struggling last couple of years and they've had a good team for the past few years ever since they had Michael Jordan but they never did seem to make an impact on the play-offs [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] I think this year they're going to really uh show some talent [speaker002:] I think also because they done took some of the pressure off of him [speaker001:] oh yeah [speaker002:] you know they because they always think it's all him and see there's not you know [speaker001:] it's not true they have a good supporting cast [speaker002:] that's not good but I mean everybody's always looking at him that's just like Larry Bird and um uh God Larry Bird what team does he play for Celtics [speaker001:] Boston Celtics right [speaker002:] yeah see because they put a lot on Larry Bird um-hum [speaker001:] yeah I don't think the Celtics quite have the overall talent that it takes to win the NBA this year [speaker002:] hum-um [speaker001:] they've got good individual players but some are getting old Robert Parish is thirty seven years old [speaker002:] yep [speaker001:] he's still playing center and uh Larry Bird's talking about retirement here I guess in another year [speaker002:] well he's out I mean he's hurt this year [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] so you know you never know [speaker001:] but they're bringing in some good young players too [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] which is good [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] I'm I've always favored Milwaukee being from that area and they've made some good moves in personnel but I don't see them as having the the type of talent that will win the NBA this year [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] they have to get by Detroit and Chicago I think either one of them is a real tough challenge for them [speaker002:] yep if they get by Detroit I think they can get by by uh Atlanta [speaker001:] but yeah I don't think Atlanta would be much as much a problem as Chicago [speaker002:] well that's what I meant yeah they get by Chicago hey can get by Atlanta [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] it would it if you can beat Chicago Atlanta shouldn't be that much different [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] you just slow down Isiah Thomas and Atlanta is um they got what

[speaker001:] So eating out. What are you interested in in restaurants? [speaker002:] Right, uh. We eat out quite a bit, it's just my husband and I at home now. * 2 slash units? So. [speaker001:] Uh, once a week, twice a week? [speaker002:] Oh, at least once a week. We're, we're retired now. When we working out we ate out more than that [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Yeah, I understand. [speaker002:] Uh. * slash error [speaker001:] Uh, but we both work and we have a daughter, and we normally manage to eat out once a week anyway. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. *slash error Well, what type of restaurant do you like, Richard? [speaker001:] Uh, really, I'm kind of open on food. I'm what you might call a culinary adventurer. I'll, [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] uh, try anything once. [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] Been on a real barbecue kick lately. [speaker002:] Oh have you? [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] We like Chinese. We eat, [speaker001:] [Cough]. [speaker002:] a lot of Chinese food. [speaker001:] Excuse me. Uh, yeah, we usually have Chinese once a month. [speaker002:] What do you look for in a restaurant? [speaker001:] I hate franchised restaurants. [speaker002:] You what? You, [speaker001:] I despise [speaker002:] Oh I, [speaker001:] franchised restaurants. I, I, I always prefer to go to something that seems more family run. [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] Uh, some place where you seem to have the attitude like you're going into their home for dinner almost. [speaker002:] I know what you mean. I like some ambiance, and I like good food. I don't like fast food hamburgers [LAUGHTER] and all of that. [speaker001:] I don't, but I don't like something fake or put on either. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] You know, if I could have a good small restaurant or a good large restaurant I'd go to the good small restaurant. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] And [breathing] I don't know why that is. I think it's probably due to pricing, often. [speaker002:] Right, uh-huh. I don't care to go to a place just for the price of it [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Well, yeah, yeah, [speaker002:] I mean, it's like continental French restaurant or something really [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] with high prices and seven courses isn't what I usually look for [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] It is what you look for? [speaker002:] It isn't, no that isn't what I look for. * More than 1 slash unit? [speaker001:] Oh, isn't, isn't. Uh, I try to get my money's worth. [speaker002:] Right [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] And not just that, I try to, {D well, that's a big part of it. } I try to get my money's worth. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] You know, and not just in quantity, you know, but quality, and, and flavor and texture and care. [speaker002:] Presentation and, [speaker001:] Well, presentation's not always all of it either. [speaker002:] Well, like [speaker001:] It's, it's important. [speaker002:] we, we've been eating some in a restaurant that [throat clearing] that just changed hands recently, and we're trying to give them a little patronage. But Sunday we went there, and I had a pretty good meal of grilled pork chops and a baked apple and potatoes. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] So I said if they would just add a little bit of cranberry sauce, something like that [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Yeah, yeah, something a little extra [speaker002:] Yeah, that's what I mean by, [speaker001:] and just for color if nothing else. [speaker002:] Right, uh-huh. It would mean a lot to the looks of the plate. [speaker001:] Yeah, yeah. What I miss up here is, I'm originally a Texan, and I miss home cooked Mexican. [speaker002:] Tex-Mex, Tex-Mex. [speaker001:] Yeah, home cooked Tex-Mex. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Uh, Mexican restaurants where it's not owned by an Anglo or a corporation. [speaker002:] Right, I know. Uh, we have a daughter in Texas and one in New Mexico, and we've really gotten to like, we like the real Mexican food [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] better than Tex-Mex. [speaker001:] Well, there's real Mexican food and there's real Tex-Mex Mexican, you know, by third or fourth generation Americans [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] of Hispanic heritage. [speaker002:] It's all pretty good, isn't it? [speaker001:] Oh, yes, and, and there's big differences, of course, and, of course, when you talk about Mexican cuisine you, that's kind of like talking about American food or Chinese food, [NOISE] [dishes in background] because [pause] its regional, too. [speaker002:] Right, uh-huh, that's true. [speaker001:] So. [speaker002:] I'm originally from Maine, so we like seafood, too. And that's something we don't get here, and we're in the mountains in Virginia. [speaker001:] Oh. [speaker002:] And most of the seafood's frozen. [speaker001:] Uh, yeah that's the way it is here in Colorado, also. No fresh, or almost no fresh seafood [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] and in Texas we got it from the Gulf. [speaker002:] Uh-huh, that's true. Lots of shrimp. [speaker001:] And, yeah, here a couple years ago my wife and I went to Seattle on vacation. [pause] And I think everything except breakfast was seafood for almost a week. [speaker002:] I know it [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] And it was, [pause] I was like a man starving at every meal. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] I know the feeling. We do the same thing. My son-in-law is a Texan, and when he goes to Maine, he eats lobster, I guess, at least twice a day, all the time he's up there [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] It's a lot cheaper there, isn't it? Lobster? [speaker002:] Oh, yeah, yeah. It's like [speaker001:] It's like shrimp on the Gulf. [speaker002:] two ninety-eight a pound for a pound lobster. [speaker001:] Two ninety-eight a pound. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] That's as cheap as steaks some places [speaker002:] Oh yeah, cheaper, right. [speaker001:] I mean in a grocery store. [speaker002:] Right, yeah. A lot of the restaurants you can get two pou-, two one pound lobsters for like ten ninety-nine. [speaker001:] Oh, my gosh. I've got to go to Maine then [NOISE] [dishes rattling in background]. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] You may have sold a trip for some time. [speaker002:] Yeah, it's a good place to go. [speaker001:] Uh, it sounds wonderful. Uh, so, [speaker002:] Lots of little restaurants, too, with home cooked food, that's up there. [speaker001:] That sound good. Uh, down in the Gulf I've eaten a bunch of those little [pause] uh, seafood shacks, we've called them. [speaker002:] Right, uh-huh. [speaker001:] And, uh, it's just so much different than to eat something that's been frozen. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] You know [pause] [speaker002:] We went to Gal-, [speaker001:] shrimp straight out of the bay. [speaker002:] We were in Galveston last year aft-, right aft-, well, the first of this year, actually. [speaker001:] Hm. [speaker002:] And, ate in a restaurant, and they claimed to have the best shrimp on the Gulf coast. [speaker001:] Was it true? [speaker002:] No. It wasn't. On the way across Louisiana, we pulled off, we saw a billboard and just pulled off taking a chance on a place. And they had, it was a small restaurant, just kind of out of the way, and they were set up with two buffets, one for their regular Sunday chicken and roast beef and vegetables and everything. [speaker001:] Hm. [speaker002:] And then one complete seafood buffet. [speaker001:] Huh. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] That was the best shrimp I have ever had in my life. They had shrimp fixed probably six different ways. [speaker001:] Uh, yes, the cajuns. [speaker002:] Uh-huh, right. It was wonderful. [speaker001:] They can, they can do things to shrimp that, that no one else can. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] So, have you eaten crawfish yet? [speaker002:] Uh, I tried it, but I didn't care for it. Not there, but at my brothers I tried it. [speaker001:] Oh, as with anything, it's preparation. [speaker002:] That's probably true. It, I wasn't hungry, it wasn't a meal. * 2 slash units? We just, he went down and bought some at a [speaker001:] Uh. [speaker002:] local place that steams them, just so we'd try them. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. It, there's all kinds, [speaker002:] Probably needed some cold beer with it and [LAUGHTER], [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] So you do eat out a lot. [speaker002:] Quite a bit. [speaker001:] One of our other real problems with going out to eat, Sunday morning brunches. [speaker002:] Oh. [speaker001:] You know, Sunday brunch, all, all you can eat brunches. [speaker002:] Right. We used to do that, once in a while, but we don't anymore. [speaker001:] Uh, we still find it fun. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. It's fun, but it's just so much food [LAUGHTER]. Hate to come away feeling uncomfortable [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Well, I work in machine shop and do a lot of physical labor. [speaker002:] Do you, well that makes a difference. [speaker001:] And so, [speaker002:] Where do you go to brunches? Like at hotels, or restaurants there? [speaker001:] Yeah, uh, actually one of our, one of our favorites is a chain. Shoney's. [speaker002:] Oh, yeah, uh-huh. We eat at Shoney's. [speaker001:] Yeah, [NOISE] [dishes rattling] in spite of the fact I've spoken so badly about chains, chain restaurants, uh, we, uh, do like Shoney's pretty well, but then there's a place up the pass, up in the mountains that we pretty reliably like to go to on some Sunday mornings, drive, drive up to, I think it's about eight thousand foot elevation. [speaker002:] Oh. [speaker001:] And, and drive through Woodland Park and go for a short drive in the mountains and have breakfast. [speaker002:] Uh-huh, that sounds nice. [speaker001:] It, it, it's the way to spend a nice Sunday morning. [speaker002:] Right, I imagine it is. [speaker001:] I think it's as much the, the trip to the mountains as it is the breakfast brunch. {D You know, } and it's not that far. It's thirty miles. [speaker002:] Whe-, out of, which direction? [speaker001:] Colorado Springs. [speaker002:] Out of, which direction from there? [speaker001:] West [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] west out of Colorado Springs.

[speaker001:] um so what is your what why do you people don't vote in the elections [speaker002:] well first of all I think they understated the turnout It's I don't I don't think that in a national election it's ever been under fifty three percent well it's it's it's almost half but it's been you know it's somewhere in the fifties for sure so it it it understates it a little bit [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] why do people not vote um well it's the analysts usually say they don't think it will effect anything they're certainly wrong about that [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] um I think that that it's easy if you if if you think things are going bad enough to just turn off to the news and just not pay any attention It's the less you pay attention the less you know about what's going to effect you [speaker001:] yeah yeah I I think I think apathy is is real big thing I mean just in the fact that you don't think you're going to have anything done I to me it's really hard to find um [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] any information on the candidates I mean I I voted yesterday and and uh [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] half half the people you know you really have to hunt to get information on them and you know as far as the local things go and if you know if you don't know them then [speaker002:] yeah oh yeah that's right yeah and I I I agree uh I have made calls to various organizations the night before elections well one thing I do I usually do is go to the library and study for an election before it [speaker001:] really [speaker002:] yeah and and try to get voter guides from newspapers and things and that helps a little bit [speaker001:] yeah that's a good idea [speaker002:] they don't ask their they don't ask enough questions they ask on one or two issues and and many people can respond with platitudes [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] what you really need to do excuse me is find interest groups that that you know who's interest whose issues you are interested in and then find how the if they have done a candidate survey and lots of times they have and then you have something to base it on there was a back when I was living in Pittsburgh there was a group called the association for public justice I don't know if you've ever heard of them perhaps [speaker001:] huh-uh huh-uh [speaker002:] perhaps not I it's it's it they they really didn't you know it it sounds like they're some kind of liberal group well they were a little bit liberal on some things but they were a little bit conservative on some things too [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] and they put out this this uh survey of candidates where they asked them like uh eight questions uh all the candidates for all the offices now it wasn't that great in that they didn't tailor the the question for you know for the particular office so they asked people on the local level things that only come up at the national level and vice versa [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] but uh other than that it was a very good way to to see who you sympathized with and you could vote on the basis of that [speaker001:] yeah I that's um I don't know what it was that we had that I had yesterday got it from someone in our church that uh it it asked uh [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] it went all the way down well it went to some of our constables but mainly it was in the Dallas area not in the Plano area [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] but um it asked it had all sorts of questions about uh economics uh education and and uh [speaker002:] uh [speaker001:] family and [speaker002:] things things things like abortion presumably [speaker001:] yeah yeah but it had other things like um do you would you support um [speaker002:] huh [speaker001:] I know one that kind of stuck out in my mind was was would you support uh a a two thousand dollar uh tax credit for women that stay you know at home and and so it had kind of a variety of of um [speaker002:] yeah right right [speaker001:] of questions and it it probably had twenty or thirty questions on it it was really you know that was really good and helpful and it you know it had them you know support if they could support oppose oppose or or you know be undecided about it [speaker002:] uh-huh I do do do you know what group did it [speaker001:] yeah it was it was it was uh I thought it was really good but you know it course it doesn't go through all the candidates and some of them you know you think well this guy's this guy won't have any won't have any um [speaker002:] uh-huh yup uh-huh [speaker001:] say so about any of this anyway but it's kind of good to know their opinions anyway they you know run for a different kind of office once you're in politics you probably stay in politics I would think [speaker002:] uh-huh that's right because yeah yeah I mean once they yeah that's right that's that's one point that was made that that you know uh I read one article saying even if you don't that abortion makes any difference at uh you know at a at a really local level like City Council or something like that these people will in the end they might get elected to something bigger and the way that they get known is by getting elected these little to these to little offices [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] so you got to look at their views and and that was a point that I hadn't considered the reason I ask about the organization is I just got uh started working last year in an organization called Christian Coalition which does just what you were suggesting and I was wondering if it was [speaker001:] uh-huh and that may have been who had done it I'm I don't remember um [speaker002:] if it was theirs yeah [speaker001:] I had like three or four different things I was looking at uh and that was that that was probably the most helpful I wish it had been more detailed I know that um [speaker002:] uh-huh see the candidates don't like to respond to all these questions [speaker001:] I you

[speaker001:] do you have any [speaker002:] yes we do have a pet we have a a dog that we got from the uh well we call it the S P C A it's the uh animal from an animal shelter uh he'd come in there as a stray uh he's a Pomeranian and Sheltie cross uh [speaker001:] uh-huh all right yeah [speaker002:] well he was very well trained when we got him uh he's [speaker001:] oh that's good you don't often find that I don't think [speaker002:] no uh we suspect that he was hurt in an accident you know got away from somebody traveling through and hurt in an accident because [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] a dog that looks as good as he does and is trained as well is someone that has lost him and not have been able to locate him [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] and uh if they were local people they would have been able to find him [speaker001:] sure there's a okay uh that's interesting yeah the only pet that I've had uh I'm a I'm a doctoral student right now [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] and in my in my earlier days as a student I kind of time shared on a dog with a a good friend of mine and uh it was an amazing dog it really was they had he had gotten it from the pound and uh it it's a Spanish Pointer named Domino [speaker002:] oh yeah [speaker001:] kind of looks like a Dalmatian a Dalmatian and we trained it from a pup and basically it right now it it's fully trained and it can do [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] a lot of things it will get beer for you out of the fridge and it will get the newspaper and do all kinds of stuff so it's really it's it's kind of a show piece anymore and whenever anybody comes over we all have to show him Domino you know [speaker002:] oh I think so [speaker001:] yeah it's uh she's been a real good a real good dog and uh just it's kind of a shame that I'm I'm gone I'm away from it now I I just I actually live in Florida [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] but I'm on an internship up here for a year and then I go back down but uh yeah Domino's a real good dog uh [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] what uh possessed you to get the dog [speaker002:] well I I guess in one sense we felt that it it's nice to have a dog even though there are you know complications come with it and then with our children uh at the time they were oh grade five and and grade eight so [speaker001:] yeah uh-huh [speaker002:] it was an age where it was uh we thought it was be good for them to have the discipline that goes with with having a pet uh [speaker001:] sure sure learn a bit learn a little bit of discipline and how to care for it and things like that that's good that kind of builds some character a little bit [speaker002:] yeah right uh well that's the idea I think the reality of it is that they perhaps uh it depends on the on everyone's discipline [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] and uh from that aspect I'm short on the discipline because I don't uh enforce that the kids look after the dog and uh we've had him about four years now [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] uh but I think it does it it you know it's necessary that individuals have the discipline to look after the animal properly uh [speaker001:] yeah that's something that's important for sure [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] I think uh do you live in a in a in a fairly rural part of the uh or [speaker002:] uh actually no we live in a in an area that's oh probably about two and a half miles from the university [speaker001:] oh I see [speaker002:] uh we live right might say we live right in uh in the middle of a residential area [speaker001:] um [speaker002:] and uh so that is not as good uh you know this dog being a small dog it's uh more you more acceptable but again [speaker001:] yeah yeah it's not that big of a problem With Domino she was full grown I would estimate seventy pounds [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] and you know we we lived in Oviedo which is a small town it's a suburb of Orlando [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] but there's not there wasn't a lot of room for her to run around and she was a dog that loved to run so that was the biggest problem I saw and I think that's one of the uh the issues people need to think about before they get a dog is you know do you have the room for this dog to run around or can you know I guess you can't really say for cats me and cats don't get along too well uh but you know that whole space issue I think is real important [speaker002:] yeah it's uh that's one of the biggest concerns it's like uh there's a lot to be gained from a relationship with an animal but the same time one has to recognize the reality of physical requirements of of the animal [speaker001:] right yeah that that [speaker002:] and the larger they are the more room they need to exercise [speaker001:] sure and that's all part of your of keeping your part of the relationship you know showing the maturity and responsibility to recognize those uh those issues [speaker002:] right well [speaker001:] you know and also the whole whole thing with noise my mother oh she freaks out because she's got neighbors that have dogs that don't train them [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] and you know we had we had a neighbor in Nebraska when we lived there that had uh Brittany Spaniels and they're very high strung animals to begin with but uh

[speaker001:] okay I work with uh a lot of students and uh in my uh occupation talking to them about college and going to colleges I think uh [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] the advice that I give to would give to uh parents I've had four sons five sons that have gone to college uh to uh college I think uh one of the main things is that they they choose a local college that uh or university that will go along with their goals as far as what degrees they want to go into and they if they're in the local area they don't have to pay out of state tuition and all of those things and uh [speaker002:] yeah that's certainly helpful [speaker001:] and go ahead [speaker002:] say your last suggestion there about staying within state I realize that there are a lot of schools unless uh uh the student has a real specialty and there oh maybe are one or two universities that are highly respected in that field they really ought to try to stay within their state I mean [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] financing in universities now is getting a very very high [speaker001:] yes it is [speaker002:] and they can't help themselves on that either so it certainly is an advantage to stay within your own state [speaker001:] um-hum uh that that's uh kind of the the advice that I give and then uh they need to take a look at the uh courses uh the courses of study and uh how it would go into their their major minor field uh [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] what kind of placement uh they have in the particular area you know I had one son who uh went to a smaller college uh to uh went out in the uh premed area [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] but they had an excellent record of placing uh their students in medical schools after they finished the program and he was [speaker002:] that's very important [speaker001:] right he got early acceptance to a to medical school after he finished and uh if he would've gone to uh say the state uh it would be the University of Utah if he would've gone there uh I don't know whether he'd got accepted to medical school there or not [speaker002:] well that was certainly uh good advice to get him to go to a school who follows up and has such a reputation that others are happy to get their students that [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] that means that the quality of what he was taught must be very very high [speaker001:] yes uh [speaker002:] and that's good for him too regardless of where he works he has uh a top level of information that will last him the rest of his life basically [speaker001:] um-hum and you you can do this for any of the uh any uh university or or for any of the students that are planning uh take a look at uh their final goals at least hopefully they've got a goal of what area they want to go out in and then uh if it's law school or if it's uh medical or whatever there are different uh colleges and universities usually within the state that uh have a little little better placement record or or getting them into into those higher degree or higher areas of education [speaker002:] um-hum well we have that same situation here I'm I'm a retired professor at Penn State [speaker001:] I see uh-huh [speaker002:] and uh the field I worked in was acoustics and we have an acoustics department here and we have lots of students several hundred I guess in in acoustics and they have an excellent opportunity to follow through on their fields because our university is well known for it's research in addition to uh teaching obviously if we can do [speaker001:] um-hum you bet [speaker002:] high class research we must be well trained and and uh available to teach the students well [speaker001:] um-hum and uh that would be school a school that the parents uh should seek out for their uh students if they're interested in that that field and [speaker002:] yes [speaker001:] and where it's well known uh the word gets out and that that might be a a case where even if it was out of state and they had to pay a little higher tuition then it would be well worth the the uh to to go to to Penn State [speaker002:] yes yes because Penn Penn State is very well known in uh many of its uh many of its fields and uh we we get a lot we do we only we get our sort of say we get state uh students not only from out of state but from all over the world [speaker001:] um-hum yes [speaker002:] I mean they they they really come here we have a very high uh percentage of foreign students because Penn State is pretty well tops in many of its fields [speaker001:] um-hum you bet [speaker002:] and we have doubled in size in the last fifteen twenty years I guess [speaker001:] um-hum well that's very important in in a choice of a college or university that they look at those aspects uh wherever they might be [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] and if it's uh financially if they can do that that's that's great [speaker002:] yes that's true [speaker001:] but they they need to know about the the costs and uh how they're going to be able to pay for this whether they can get students loans or are their parents are able to help or whatever but uh uh the bottom line is uh the the college or university that's gonna give them the best training prepare them for life [speaker002:] yes and then the basic thing is that you started out earlier to say the the bottom line is to give your

[speaker001:] All right and, and your occupation is teaching? [speaker002:] I'm a, I'm a substitute teacher. [speaker001:] Substitute teacher. [speaker002:] Is, is this Pat I'm talking to now? [speaker001:] Yes, it is, it is. [speaker002:] Yeah, I'm a substitute teacher, in, I believe, the same school system we both work in. [speaker001:] Right. Well, I was just trying to make an introduction, here [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Oh, okay. [speaker001:] But, oh, and, and I haven't told you I'm going to be at a different school this year, now. [speaker002:] Oh. [speaker001:] I've just gotten a, another job at an elementary library at Barron. [speaker002:] Well, I bet you're, you're, you may dress differently, then, for that. [speaker001:] Right. I, well, not really. I've got the, every day I've got to, uh, read to kindergartners, so I'm going to be down on the floor with them. I've got about forty kindergartners I'm going to be doing, working with every day for, uh, you know, a half hour. So I'll be, I'll probably be wearing slacks as often as I do because I'm, I'm, if I'm going to be down on the floor messing with them, I'm not going to wear nylons and, you know [speaker002:] Well, [speaker001:] nice nylons and dresses. [speaker002:] What I wear sometimes depends on, on how cold I think the school might be or what room I might be in [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] since I'm a sub, and have different rooms to go to. And always carry a sweater. [speaker001:] Well, of course, you've been at Clark enough that you know it's always cold [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Yes. [speaker001:] But, you don't know, uh, I guess at some of the other schools you go to unless you've been there. [speaker002:] No, you try to layer, so you can add or, or [speaker001:] Subtract. [speaker002:] or take off. [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] And it's, it's interesting to notice when you go to different schools that some are a little more fancier than others and have a very casual, uh, [speaker001:] I, I think some of the dress codes are different at different schools. That's one of things, one of the things I ask about, you know, whether, whether she would allow slacks and she said she doesn't have a problem with that, she just didn't like sloppy dressing. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] And, and I said, well, you know, that was okay. And I'm, basically, I just, you know, I wear slacks year round except every, about once a week I try to wear a skirt. And, and in the winter, you know, I just add a, maybe wear longer sleeve shirts than I do in the summer. And add a heavier jacket or, you know, wear jackets more in the winter than I do in the summer. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] That's about, I don't, I don't really work in a profession that requires that I wear a business suit and, you know, look really, [speaker002:] Right, and, well, for me sometimes, they even have dress up days or they, you know, have, have spirit week that, that you wear your different outfits [speaker001:] Yeah [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] and you have to have the color for that particular school if you, if you choose to participate in [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] spirit week. And one might be a hat day where you have to come up with some [speaker001:] And you never know that, though [speaker002:] sort of hat. [speaker001:] sometimes when you're going in, do you? [speaker002:] No, but because I sort of stick to several schools, uh, I'm usually aware that there might be a spirit week going on and, and might, might remember to do it. [speaker001:] Right, right. [speaker002:] And then many schools on a particular day during, uh, I guess football season, maybe all year long, they wear the school colors for, uh, game day [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] which, [speaker001:] On what, Thursd-, Thursday. [speaker002:] Right, it might be Thursday for the high schools and it may be Friday for the senior high schools. [speaker001:] Right, right. So that would kind of give you a, a clue, I guess and, and sometimes you get the long term stuff so you're aware ahead of time [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] of what's going on. That, so that's, and I don't know, you know, I, I think about, well, the dress code they have for the kids, you know. Are they put one on the parents, or the teachers and say they have to, the men have to wear ties and there can be no blue jeans worn and, because some of the teachers I know wear, uh, dress up jeans, not sloppy looking jeans [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] but tapered jeans that they've had dry cleaned so they have got the crease and, uh, you know, they'll wear it with a nice top. And, and, uh, I don't know that that looks that bad. But, if you're going to tell the kids they c-, have to dress up, I guess you can tell the teachers that, too. [speaker002:] Yeah, it, it, I see that the, I think the elementary school teachers, or maybe even the middle school teachers dress a little fancier than, than some of the high school teachers, I think. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] But it, I think it varies, it, it just so much. Anything, anything can go. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] And you can see in some of the departments in some of the schools, like history at Clark, they're all pretty fancy. But they're just sort of into clothes, and then there's other departments [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] that aren't. [speaker001:] Right, right. [speaker002:] And they'll just wear your common, ordinary, you know, whatever you might [LAUGHTER] [speaker001:] Yeah, there's a couple [speaker002:] might say, [speaker001:] teachers up there that, that do dress up more than others. [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] And so you try to maybe follow those if you know you're going there, you don't want to dress too tacky because you're [LAUGHTER] going to be in the same room with them. [speaker001:] Right. Well, and you always, course, it's a standing joke, you know, when the, when the men come in in a, a tie and a suit coat, you say, you know, what, have you got a job interview today or, [speaker002:] Or you're going [speaker001:] there, there's, [speaker002:] to be observed. [speaker001:] There's usually, yeah, there's usually something going on that, that, uh, and would, would, uh, cause that to happen [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] and I, I don't know how a coach would feel if, that teaches health or Eng-, you know, English, or whatever that they had to wear a tie. I, some of those male coaches, that might really, [speaker002:] Right. They go around in their little coaching shorts or [speaker001:] Right, and a T-shirt. [speaker002:] parachute pants. [speaker001:] Right. That I didn't ever understand. I mean we've got coaches that teach health for five periods and then have athletics sixth period so [LAUGHTER], [speaker002:] Yeah, well at [speaker001:] Whether, [speaker002:] Vines, the coaches don't do that. They, they dress pretty good, I would say and then they go to their coaching and they, they put their shorts [speaker001:] Change then. [speaker002:] on there. [speaker001:] Well, see, that's what I would think. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] That's what I would think. [speaker002:] But, they, they don't look, you know, they don't wear their sweat pants or, or anything. They're, they dress like any other teacher would in [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] in a classroom situation, not in P E. [speaker001:] Course, we had, had one coach, one period he'd teach P E and the next period Health and then a period of P E [speaker002:] Those I can understand. [speaker001:] and, and that's hard. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] You know, so he just left warm-ups on, but, but, uh, no, I think, really probably, they could, they could, uh, really, and I don't know if, if they put, make uniforms the thing for the kids, I guess the teachers will have to follow suit with a dark skirt and a white top and, [speaker002:] I don't think we'll ever get to that. [speaker001:] You don't think so. [speaker002:] No, I don't think. I think we're going the opposite direction. It's the parochial schools that I guess many ti-, they've had uniforms for years, I r-, don't really know if they still do. [speaker001:] Well, some of them, yes they do and, and it's not [speaker002:] It certainly makes it easier to dress. [speaker001:] at some of the private schools, but even there's a couple public schools in Dallas where, where the kids wear uniforms and the teachers, you know, dress [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] in accordance with that. [speaker002:] Well, it's certainly cheaper and easier in the long run, I think, that you don't have to be concerned about your wardrobe. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. Well I, I think it would make a difference at school. I, I don't think we should be spending time saying somebody's wearing torn clothing or wearing sh-, too shorts, too short or they've got the really short skirt and the black nylons and the high, you know, I mean [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] it's a lot of trouble to, to take care of that. And, of course, the kids say, then why bother, just let me wear what I want. And, and yet we can't to that either. I'd like to see them go to, to not necessarily a uniform, but saying that they've got to wear a button down shirt. You know, that would, that would alleviate any T-shirts with sayings on them. But if they could wear a button-down shirt and a pair of dark slacks and they could buy them anywhere they wanted and, [speaker002:] Yeah, but I doubt that that would come ab-, [speaker001:] And then the girls, [speaker002:] that that will come about. Just [LAUGHTER], [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] Yeah, I, I, [speaker001:] I don't, no, not in Plano. [speaker002:] No not, [speaker001:] They may get a-, [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] but they said in the Dallas schools that that helps their educational process there. [speaker002:] Well, I think it does. It, it takes their minds off of, of trying to compete. [speaker001:] Highland Park's thinking about going that route. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] So it, and then I think that's going to push teachers to dress a lot more professionally than they do. [speaker002:] Yeah, I, I don't think a lot of teachers are very professional but, [speaker001:] Yeah, I agree with you on,

[speaker001:] supposed to talk about boats have you got a boat [speaker002:] no I don't do you [speaker001:] no I don't I I've had one for quite a few years but I've I've not had one the last couple of years [speaker002:] oh really [speaker001:] but it's something I've always enjoyed do you do you like boating yeah [speaker002:] yeah I love them [speaker001:] but uh my children all have been grown for a couple years and we were using it less and less and less so we decided to sell it and [speaker002:] well I heard that's the second happiest day of your life [speaker001:] what's that [speaker002:] the day you sell your boat [speaker001:] oh no now I loved having a boat [speaker002:] no I just heard that that's just a joke I guess [speaker001:] I loved having it no oh okay [speaker002:] first best day is the day you get and the day you get rid of it but [speaker001:] oh yeah [speaker002:] I'd like to have one I just don't know if I'd have the time to use it [speaker001:] yeah yeah a guy just you know he needs his weekends free or [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] to be able to use it or a day during the week or something but but no I guess for the cost of them you don't really it's hard to get I don't know I felt like I got my money's worth out of mine I had bought it used and kept it uh I don't know ten years and got within uh [speaker002:] did [speaker001:] three hundred dollars of what when I sold it of what I'd paid for it and had it all those years you know [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] so they hold their you take care of them they hold their value real well [speaker002:] really [speaker001:] so you know you couldn't complain about that [speaker002:] did you go fishing [speaker001:] no no it was a uh big boat big ski boat type thing [speaker002:] oh okay [speaker001:] I had a hundred hundred sixty horse uh Mercruiser in it inboard outboard [speaker002:] oh wow [speaker001:] oh I did fish out of it occasionally but I'm not too much of a fisherman [speaker002:] really [speaker001:] and uh but I but I did enjoy owning a boat would recommend it to anybody and uh [speaker002:] yeah I like to fish [speaker001:] uh but uh and now sailing I've never been sailing have you been sailing [speaker002:] uh yeah I've sailed some I just like uh fourteen foot Sunfish [speaker001:] uh-huh I've never tried I've always thought I bet that would be more fun but I'd want to be with a skilled sailor but it it [speaker002:] nothing big yeah really well they offer classes out at uh Ray Hubbard [speaker001:] yeah well I I've always thought I'd like to I've never wanted to bad enough to make any effort to do it you know [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] and at this stage of the game I'm not that interested in it anymore [speaker002:] oh okay [speaker001:] we go out with friends on the we go to the lake just about every weekend down at Mount Vernon and uh my parents' next door neighbors have a big barge and we go out and take them out on their barge they're getting kind of old and they like us to take them out on their barge quite often so we we get out on the water occasionally you know [speaker002:] okay oh that's nice yeah [speaker001:] but uh uh anyway it's it's fun I I do enjoy the lake but uh once the children were grown and we'd go down there and I'd get the boat out on the you know Saturday and we'd go for a ride and enjoy it so much it's such a pretty lake down there we'd enjoy it so much and I'd say well I'm gonna leave the boat out because uh we'll probably do this again tomorrow it got to where the tomorrow the boat was still sitting there and we never did go out again and I'd have to go load it up the next day and [speaker002:] where is that [speaker001:] uh Mount Vernon Cypress Springs Cypress Creek Creek Springs [speaker002:] yeah okay that's south of here [speaker001:] yeah it's down at Mount Vernon [speaker002:] okay [speaker001:] it's probably the prettiest lake in the state of Texas [speaker002:] really [speaker001:] yeah it's just a hundred miles from here [speaker002:] huh what do you take I thirty five [speaker001:] uh no you go down I uh uh you uh you go down uh yeah thirty thirty [speaker002:] thirty [speaker001:] it's east of here [speaker002:] oh okay [speaker001:] east of here hundred miles due east of here [speaker002:] all right [speaker001:] and uh [speaker002:] yeah it just we just moved down here a couple years ago so [speaker001:] did you where'd y'all move from [speaker002:] Colorado Springs [speaker001:] oh did you how are you liking it [speaker002:] yeah oh we love it up there [speaker001:] well good [speaker002:] that's where I grew up so [speaker001:] yeah uh-huh [speaker002:] but uh we're we like it down here pretty good [speaker001:] oh I think you'll like it better but of course it's hard when you don't have any family around [speaker002:] yeah especially we got two kids that are under two and [speaker001:] yeah uh-huh [speaker002:] it's kind of tough when my folks call and they want to see them [speaker001:] yes it's hard on the folks your folks too I know they're all yours and your wife's folks still live in Colorado uh-huh [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] uh there supposed to be uh some people from moving down here from Colorado Springs for TI [speaker002:] so oh really [speaker001:] yeah supposed to be [speaker002:] yeah that's right um [speaker001:] do you work at TI [speaker002:] I don't no uh a friend of mine's dad is was a program manager up there and he just moved down here to McKinney [speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh [speaker002:] what do you I guess it's he's working at McKinney [speaker001:] uh-huh yeah I don't either my wife does [speaker002:] okay [speaker001:] but it's a good company but anyway we're supposed to be talking about boats so back to boats so tell me the last time you went for a boat ride [speaker002:] well actually I went uh canoeing down the Brazos this weekend [speaker001:] oh my gosh now that had to be that's boating that had to've been fun [speaker002:] it was fun it was fun

[speaker001:] well how do you feel about um putting an elderly family family member in a nursing home [speaker002:] I'm not too happy about the idea although I do realize that sometimes it becomes necessary to do that or to have round the clock kind of health care available in the house [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] which often is is not that um easy to to do sometimes it really is easier to put the person right in the central place where the care can be given [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] I'm very happy that in my life so far I have not had to do that kind of a thing um my own mother lived with us for some years and uh just died peacefully within a short amount of time at the end of her life and uh I never had to face that personally [speaker001:] um-hum um-hum [speaker002:] and uh what do you think you might do in such a situation [speaker001:] yeah oh I agree I it's it's a tough issue I feel like each case probably has to be evaluated individually I feel um [speaker002:] um-hum um-hum [speaker001:] I I feel like as families you know we need to take care of the older ones in our families [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] and yet I understand um well we may be facing that with my grandmother she lives is living near my parents out in California [speaker002:] oh [speaker001:] and they this year they moved her into a um retirement apartment complex so she's got part time care [speaker002:] oh yes [speaker001:] but as soon as she needs round the clock care then she's not allowed to live there anymore and so we'll have to face the issue of whether she moves in with my mother or they put her into a nursing home and [speaker002:] I see um-hum [speaker001:] it's it's difficult because I know my mother feels really um torn about it she doesn't want to to put her in a place where she's gonna be unhappy lonely or where there's bad care and sometimes you just don't know what the the place is like um [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] I mean you really need to get recommendations I guess from others and um and yet it's a real burden to her to have to to be there all the time or else you know or else like you said you have to hire someone to be in the home it's a tough issue [speaker002:] that's right um-hum yeah people are just not as home as much as they used to be um sometimes persons are still working and are not retired yet and [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] um and therefore uh they have to leave the older person all the by themselves or with the care of somebody else and some of the diseases that uh older people have uh do require more intensive surveillance [speaker001:] um-hum um-hum [speaker002:] so uh it it isn't easy I suppose one of the [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] uh best things if you are considering a nursing home is to inquire among friends and get personal recommendations I know I always trust the opinion of a close friend uh above just what I might read about a place if somebody I knew and cared about liked a place and said no this was good and [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] we were happy about the personnel and the care et cetera and so forth I would it certainly would go up in my estimation [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] and uh sometimes we as you said don't know a lot about where we are putting somebody that we care about and it's hard to know what the best uh place is um-hum [speaker001:] um-hum yeah I uh I was thinking you know it might I guess I would want to visit the place quite a bit before or something and and talk to the staff see what their attitudes are talk to some of the people that live there and see how they feel about being there [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] um because I've been in different nursing homes where I've sensed different atmospheres you know often it's it's been negative where the and I know that partly it can be the attitude of the person if they they feel neglected by their family or whatever or they just feel ready to die and you know tired of feeling not feeling good all the time [speaker002:] um-hum um um-hum yeah [speaker001:] then they're not gonna feel too good but then I've I've been to other places where you know the people have told me um this is a really good place the people here really care about us so [speaker002:] um-hum um-hum [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] well there's hope I guess uh has uh your grandmother always lived in California [speaker001:] yeah yeah well no um but all the years that I've been alive she has um for the last thirty years or so [speaker002:] oh I see yeah yeah what part of California is that [speaker001:] it's Central California [speaker002:] oh I see we used to live out there in the San Jose area so uh you know I'm kind of familiar with the state of California and like it very much yeah [speaker001:] yeah uh-huh yeah well this is Fresno uh-huh [speaker002:] but um uh it's uh it's a difficult situation uh sometimes also when you get involved in the in those residences for the elderly the retirement homes and and also uh maybe even the nursing division of a residence home um it's tremendously expensive and sometimes they ask you to uh [speaker001:] um-hum

[speaker001:] well Tom what do you think about our public school systems today [speaker002:] um well I have I have two kids in school and and in comparing it with people who live in other parts of the world one of the things that things wrong is that our our schools our kids seem to go to school less of of the year than than kids in other countries [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] um it seems like uh the long summer break is something that only uh only occurs in the United States [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] um do you have any kids in school [speaker001:] no I don't so I'm a little bit out of it I can look back to my to when I was in school which is getting further and further away and also I have a niece and nephew that are in school out in California and I hear a little a bit about from my sister about [speaker002:] yeah yeah [speaker001:] things going on yeah [speaker002:] well some of the some of the uh schools are trying to go to more of a year around system [speaker001:] yeah they're moving to that out there [speaker002:] and uh I guess there's pros and cons to that too I know if if if it happened here I would hope that uh you know I have uh two children that are two years a part I would just hope they were in the same system so [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] if you wanna take a vacation you could [speaker001:] uh-huh I hear that they that in at least in the system that's going out um in California where that I'm familiar with that they do put families on the same schedule [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] so seems like that could get a little difficult to do that but [speaker002:] it could it could one of the other um things is that um uh there's been a lot of talk about uh American schools uh getting behind in science compared to uh lot of European schools and and Japan also [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] that their schools are teaching uh more of the science sciences and putting out better uh graduates when in math and science uh for the future you know technology in various countries [speaker001:] um-hum yeah yeah [speaker002:] and that's not a favorite subject for either of my my kids it's probably not [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] for anyone but it just seems like uh those are the criticisms criticisms you hear over and over about the the the American public school system and this is probably why a lot people go to private schools instead [speaker001:] yeah yeah yeah well I hadn't thought about those things but those are problems um [speaker002:] some of the some of the people that I work with uh they're they're some from various parts of the of the world and and uh course everybody likes to think their system's the best but the the ones in [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] England and and then Germany seem seem to uh have some logical points about you know why do why do kids need a three month break in the summer [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] and I I think that dates back to when America was agricultural and nature and and children needed to help on farms and it's been quite a while since that's been the case for most part now [speaker001:] right yeah yeah there's no need for it anymore [speaker002:] and it seems though that's one of the things that ought to to change [speaker001:] um-hum um-hum [speaker002:] uh I'm not I'm not that happy to always be uh limited to just summers for most vacations and and uh Christmas time for the other you know the other one [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] and compete with all the crowds since all the other people with uh families going on vacation [speaker001:] right yeah [speaker002:] tends to make some crowds [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] did you go through the public school system [speaker001:] yeah I did [speaker002:] uh uh uh yeah I did too and everyone else in my family but seems like uh uh if people can afford it the number of people go the private school route but that's of course not available to to the average person with [speaker001:] right I know a lot of people that are home schooling their children you know just teaching them at home and [speaker002:] yes uh-huh [speaker001:] and for lots of different reasons you know [speaker002:] that I have mixed feelings about that too I guess whether or not they miss the social interaction a part of it [speaker001:] yeah yeah I know that a lot of them um they hook up with like a home schooling system and they get together the kids get together for lots of activities and outings and stuff like that [speaker002:] yeah that that would help [speaker001:] yeah I think that helps yeah I wonder too I have mixed feelings about it but um I know that uh you know I spot when I thought of problems in the school system it's not really the fault of the school system but there's a lot of you know it's just uh I don't know kids are exposed to a lot that you can't shelter them eventually eventually but it's hard at a young age some of the pressures and [speaker002:] yeah uh-huh yeah the I I think that's why a lot of people go to the home schooling they they disagree with what they're exposed to either for religious reasons or or other reasons [speaker001:] yeah yeah um-hum [speaker002:] um the other thing that's happening now I guess is is [speaker001:] yeah

[speaker001:] [Noise] Uh, I basically, uh, listen to the news from the T V. That's probably the only time [talking] I get a chance to, uh, uh, take a look at it is the evening news and, and then if I'm lucky, I might be able to hear something through news wise. But, uh, other than that that's probably how I get my source unless something really tragic [child talking] happens and somebody tells me it about through, uh, uh, you know, uh, through conversation or whatever but, uh, most of the time it is through the news in the evening so that's about the, [speaker002:] You don't get any newspapers? [speaker001:] Newspapers? No, I'm not too much in reading newspapers. Uh, not that I don't enjoy [whistling] newspapers or anything like that but, uh, part of it is because I just don't [barking] feel like I need, the need to have them, uh, with watching the T V or whatever. We get our weekly news around the area and I might look through it real quick if there's something that catches my interest, uh, in regards to what's going on around the county or little bit of the state [dishes]. But the majority of the time now I don't get a daily newspaper where, you know, I get tons of, uh, news coming in [whistling] that kind of stuff. [speaker002:] I'm kind of the opposite of you. I get all my news from newspapers. [speaker001:] Oh, you do [LAUGHTER]? [speaker002:] We have, we have two newspapers. [speaker001:] You read it in the morning then? [speaker002:] Yeah. Two newspapers in the morning. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] And, uh [speaker001:] Sure. [speaker002:] I'm, uh, in, in a government position that I'm in the news a lot so, uh, I, I kind of look through to see, see what, uh, I'm quoted in. [speaker001:] Oh, sure [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] But, uh, how, how bad the quotes are every day. [speaker001:] To see if they did it or if they, uh, criticize you or [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] put something in there wrong. Sure, sure. [speaker002:] Or, uh, sometimes there's, uh, letter to the editor about me or there's a, even, uh, editorials [speaker001:] [Child talking] Uh-huh, Sure. [speaker002:] for and against what I'm doing [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Sure, exactly [talking]. [speaker002:] But, uh, but T V, uh, the T V, I, I don't really watch, even if I'm, even if I'm on it. [speaker001:] Uh-huh, sure. [speaker002:] But just, [speaker001:] Well, that's, that's kind of like you said then. We, we are kind of on the opposite where I get home and, uh, while I'm cooking supper the T V is on and watching the news or trying to catch up with what is going on and, uh, very seldom do I catch the ten o'clock so, by that time, you know, old news is probably what I hear through the grapevine or whatever. But, uh, unless there is a big issue going on like when we were at war then I think everybody was glued to the T V to find out what was going on. [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] But, uh, other than that, no. It's, [speaker002:] And that's, C N N had the, {F uh, } everybody was watching C N N, that seemed to be the place to be [speaker001:] Exactly, exactly, exactly, sure. [speaker002:] to find out what was going on on that. [speaker001:] Yeah, yeah. [speaker002:] At that point, I was watching the T V. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. Yeah. [speaker002:] On something like that. [speaker001:] Yeah. Well it brought kind of, uh, more of a vivid, uh, look at what was going on when they were dropping the bombs and just a lot of different things. But, uh, yeah, [talking] that's true. You know [faint], you know a lot of people that read the news to, newspapers to get the news of what's going on and, uh, other people that, you know, do it differently or don't even watch any news at all so. But, [speaker002:] Well, the thing is, with, with T V, I, I, uh, a lot of times the, the news on, uh, the local T V is so brief, you really don't get the full picture of what, uh, what's going on. [speaker001:] Exactly happens. Sure, sure. That's, [speaker002:] And, uh, that's, that's a problem that I have is not, getting just a little brief, uh, idea of what's happening. But, [speaker001:] Oh sure, a clip, you know, a sentence or two and that's about it of what went on and, uh, they have so much other information to cover in such a short period of time. Sure. [speaker002:] Right. But [speaker001:] Makes sense. [speaker002:] I like the weather report. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Yeah. [speaker002:] So, I wa-, I alway, always, I always turn that on [speaker001:] Yeah, yeah. [speaker002:] that's one part I watch because of, uh, I go surfing down here and I always [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] want to watch the weather for when the waves are going to be good. [speaker001:] So you're right on the coast line. You're not, uh, further up. You're, [speaker002:] Yeah. No. Right on the south Florida coast. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. Sure. [speaker002:] Where the weather is still warm here. [speaker001:] Sure. I suppose you watch for huri-, hurricanes coming in and [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] things like that. Sure. [speaker002:] Yeah. Weather channel's good [LAUGHTER] [very faint]. [speaker001:] Yeah, that's about the only time in the, in the summer, uh, if you're watching T V for the weather, even though it's very hard to predict what's going on, they'll kind of say, well, there's a thunderstorm warning or whatever. This is the, what is expected, but a lot of times things happen and change here so drastically, uh, so fast [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] you know, where movement that was coming in has shifted or whatever so. [speaker002:] I mostly look for the storms out in the ocean. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] Uh, hundreds of miles out so I can predict my, my week and [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] where I'm going to be. [speaker001:] Sure. [speaker002:] So I can be at the, at the beach when the waves start coming in. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] to take off. Sure. Yeah. That's, sounds pretty good so. Anyway, I don't know if our time is getting up here or it's got to be fairly close to that [NOISE] [talking],

[speaker001:] surprised to get anybody this time of day but I've been I've been trying all different times and I don't get anybody at five thirty I don't get anybody at nine at night so I thought I'll try a really weird [speaker002:] uh-huh oh well I'm at work and I just happened to walk back into my office I've been gone for a little while [speaker001:] oh well well I go to school so I'm home certain days and um I really haven't been making many of these phone calls have you got [speaker002:] uh-huh I don't make I haven't ever made any I just receive them [speaker001:] have you have you received many [speaker002:] here I haven't here lately yeah [speaker001:] yeah it it's uh well the first time we were on this it came just about every day I never had to make one they just always came [speaker002:] yeah yeah exactly [speaker001:] people must be tired of it or something well well anyway I guess we're supposed to discuss this uh subject what do you think [speaker002:] well I never gave it any thought myself I was hoping you could tell me what you thought [speaker001:] oh well I don't have any objection to people doing that I think it might be good for them but as a mother of [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] two daughters I might be afraid of where they were sent is I'm just concerned about their safety more than because if they do good works in America they'll probably be sent to a ghetto [speaker002:] exactly um-hum um-hum um-hum [speaker001:] and if they were sent to a third world country I couldn't help but worry worried you know [speaker002:] yeah yeah [speaker001:] but that would be my main objection [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] um [speaker002:] I don't know I think maybe it's it should stay on a voluntary basis [speaker001:] I don't think it'll probably never happen but [speaker002:] yeah yeah I I I think it would be good for uh everyone to do something like that but I I guess I don't feel like it should be something forced upon you [speaker001:] yeah well it it probably won't I don't I don't even know how we'd pay for it anyway we can't uh [speaker002:] um-hum um-hum [speaker001:] seem to pay for all the things we have going now that's another consideration [speaker002:] um-hum exactly [speaker001:] but uh I don't know some some kids are so spoiled nowadays it might be a real eye opener you know [speaker002:] really [speaker001:] I mean sometimes my kids are on the other side of town here and they just see some really tiny modest wood frame homes and then they think they're just kind of shocked at that side of town you know I probably lived in one of those when my I was a little girl [speaker002:] uh-huh um-hum I have a girlfriend that every time her son starts taking things for granted she threatens to send him to Mexico with her relatives and let him get a taste of that for a while wouldn't it though [speaker001:] oh boy that'd be an eye opener wouldn't it I mean right next to us is such a pitiful country [speaker002:] uh-huh it is [speaker001:] I know sometimes I wish we'd help them out instead of going all across the world and helping some countries I never even heard of [speaker002:] uh-huh um-hum I know it [speaker001:] seems to me we uh it be to our benefit to strengthen that country [speaker002:] um-hum um-hum [speaker001:] right on our borders [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] but what do I know right I'm just sitting at home and and uh doing laundry today and certainly not up nobody has called me from Washington oh but um [speaker002:] oh shoot [speaker001:] anyway how did you get on this program [speaker002:] I work at TI [speaker001:] oh you do work at TI oh you're in Lewisville oh yeah I just went by that place we were going to a football play-off game a week or so ago which we lost and we went by that's the first time I'd seen it looked really nice a lot of trees there it looked like a pretty little uh site [speaker002:] uh-huh yeah hang on a minute [speaker001:] sure [speaker002:] hm do you need a bag no I don't think so yeah Patty might okay I'm back [speaker001:] oh sure [speaker002:] but how'd you get on it [speaker001:] did well my husband works at TI over on uh Central uh why we're living in Arlington I'm not so sure but he works over there and that's we did it last time [speaker002:] oh uh-huh [speaker001:] and uh so just my daughter and I are registered this time I don't know they didn't even ask him back that was weird wasn't it [speaker002:] really huh [speaker001:] but like I said I hardly ever get any calls this time and I can never find anybody [speaker002:] uh-huh I don't get too many hm [speaker001:] I so um [speaker002:] the first time I used to get calls from far away too [speaker001:] right um-hum [speaker002:] like Maryland and New Jersey and but now it just seems like it's in the Dallas Fort Worth area that I get calls from [speaker001:] yeah I've had the same experiences all right around here [speaker002:] um-hum um-hum [speaker001:] yeah I don't know uh I wonder if they really I don't know if they could possibly teach a machine to recognize the all different accents there's just there's so many within this one town [speaker002:] uh-huh uh-huh [speaker001:] you know even even in some families some people talk a little bit different [speaker002:] oh yeah yeah [speaker001:] my husband's from New Jersey and one of his sisters says things that really sound funny to me and he doesn't pronounce them at all that way and that's one family right course I think everyb ody in New Jersey sounds a little bit funny but you you know how that goes oh God [speaker002:] oh I agree oh shoot [speaker001:] well I'm surprised she hasn't told us to cut it off yet sometimes she says at night [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] uh our switch are are overloads so please end your conversation [speaker002:] uh-huh uh-huh [speaker001:] right well well do you have anymore words of wisdom about the subject you don't have any kids you wanna send over there [speaker002:] no I sure don't no no kids oh shoot [speaker001:] well it is well uh I don't know if mine would want to go live in the ghetto well one of them is real idealistic she might [speaker002:] my sister is I'd be more suited to that than her she's just bugs

[speaker001:] okay [speaker002:] well [speaker001:] well what kind of music did you all listen to [speaker002:] oh my goodness now see we think of classic rock that they you know have on all the easy listening stations now as our heart and soul I mean it was [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] that's a really good question because that was everything from the Rolling Stones to the Beatles I mean we were there [speaker001:] no now well then you was in the uh or I am sorry I am going to make you sound like you're eighty something [speaker002:] yeah I was well I was I was in seventh grade when the Beatles came out I fourteen years old Woodstock [speaker001:] okay Woodstock what was yeah what was you doing during Woodstock [speaker002:] well I wanted to go I was in Chicago and I guess I was close to eighteen or something I I it was like I think the summer between my uh high school and college somewhere around in there I can't quite remember the year and um [speaker001:] um-hum you would have had a ball [speaker002:] uh yeah [speaker001:] I I kind of liked would have liked to have been there [speaker002:] we couldn't we couldn't get it together to drive I mean you know we'd never driven outside of you know ten miles out of town at that time and here we were all hep to go to Woodstock you know [speaker001:] yeah don't you wish you'd been able to though [speaker002:] I really do you [speaker001:] oh that would have been such a great memory [speaker002:] it would have been incredible I I think of um you know all the social changes that were going on around that time [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] and and the sixties as being so revolutionary in a lot of ways in terms of raising people's consciousness everything from well I mean I remember we had the first Earth Day back then you know we got out of school at at uh the university and we celebrated Earth Day [speaker001:] yeah you went and planted a tree or something [speaker002:] yeah planted trees and stuff and we didn't realize you know the implications of all that then and a lot of the stuff that goes on today [speaker001:] well well growing up with when I grew up it just wasn't we did not have any causes [speaker002:] well [speaker001:] to me it didn't doesn't seem like we've got much you know what I mean [speaker002:] well you do you'll you I mean there was there was no name to it it was everything that was started in the sixties you had you had to fight for racial equality [speaker001:] well I do remember demonstrations over busting [speaker002:] and busting themselves it was like just a continuum you know everything sort of had a seed in the sixties and women's rights I mean things for women were totally different for you by that time [speaker001:] yeah well right by the time I was born even now you know women's rights uh we just [speaker002:] just assume [speaker001:] we are totally equal now there is not really a lot to fight for now I saw something on TV last night on Twenty Twenty you know men uh fathers or daddies now wait a minute daddies are people too it is about a lot of men you know all right [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] going through divorces the judge will usually uh give custody to the mother ninety seven percent of the time because they go through the female and [speaker002:] yeah well we learned that from Kramer versus Kramer didn't we [speaker001:] yeah something like that but it does seem you know [speaker002:] it seems unfair [speaker001:] yeah it really does [speaker002:] but it see men are coming into their own now too [speaker001:] yeah they are well I thought about that I thought well now men you know have to fight to be equal and I think that's only right though really he one guy said the judge looked at him and said well now mister so and so he says I've have never seen uh calves follow a bull they always follow the heifer that is why I always he said that is why I always give custody to the mama and he said well he said does that mean you are going to shoot them if they break a leg and you know butcher them if they get fat he said my kids are not cattle [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] you know but that that is the way most people feel that women should get custody [speaker002:] well are you married and do you have children [speaker001:] yeah I am married and I've got two kids [speaker002:] two kids and and how does your husband respond to all the new social um changes [speaker001:] my husband is not a conformist at all he is still back there in the seventies [speaker002:] well see bless his heart you know um [speaker001:] well I mean he is still wearing bell bottoms jeans not bell bottoms but flared pants and and he well I do not like them but you know to him [speaker002:] they're going to be back in style any day now [speaker001:] yeah any day now well he just you know he is he is his own person he you know he does stay with it as far as music and stuff goes but he wears what clothes he wants to which we are both that way [speaker002:] oh [speaker001:] if something is out of style I don't really care if I like it I'm gonna wear it [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] but uh my husband is not a conformist at all [speaker002:] oh well see that that's the spirit of the sixties and whether we are talking about the rain forests I tell you you know the situation you have right now and and all of our generations is what to do with the children because both [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] mother and father have to work now [speaker001:] well uh we are trying to keep away from that my husband works for the railroad we have got it real tight but I've got a four month old baby and I do not want to work I want to tend to her I want to raise my kids [speaker002:] oh okay that's that's see that is your commitment you do not know what you are changing when you do something like that you don't understand the total commitment it takes to be a parent [speaker001:] um-hum well right well when he grew up he grew up with his we both grew up with single mothers [speaker002:] ah [speaker001:] and my mom had six kids [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] so she had to work and you know I was raised by my sisters and stuff and I can I can't see the difference but I know that it would have been better had mom been able to stay home with us [speaker002:] that one person that you could always count on being there [speaker001:] right right and my husband was the same way and we just I want to raise my kids I do not want a day care or an aunt or anybody else raising them [speaker002:] well [speaker001:] I want to be there to make sure that well they need guidance and they do need parental guidance [speaker002:] they definitely do [speaker001:] twenty four hours a day [speaker002:] they definitely do I [speaker001:] do you stay home with yours [speaker002:] uh well see I if I had some I would I I haven't I had an unfortunate thing happen and I'm you know and it is not going to happen that way but my my uh friends are having babies right and left so I get to see the different ways that they [speaker001:] uh-huh they raise them [speaker002:] um all raise them and and one gal she started a business in her home and she she hired an au pair which is a college kid to come in and take care of her two boys while she works in the other end of the house [speaker001:] well but see now [speaker002:] and the guy lives in with her you know I mean you know it is a family sort of unit sort of thing and the [speaker001:] yeah okay sweetie let mommy talk [speaker002:] and so [speaker001:] well I think that's neat [speaker002:] so that is a different way and then my other girlfriend just you know tears her hair out and goes at it you know twenty four hours a day watching both kids all the time and I think there is a point where you just have to get away [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] and it's good for the kid and it is good for you to develop you know your interest so you do not stop growing at the same time [speaker001:] um-hum well I know the family is really going through changes but now we're trying to go back to about the sixties when the parents you know when the mother was staying at home [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] or that what do they call it the nuclear family yeah but uh [speaker002:] yeah do you have any um do you have your mom or anybody around you that helps you [speaker001:] um well my family is Kentucky now my my one of my sisters is down here her husband happened to get a job at TI they moved out here but well his family lives here and my husband was in the service when I met him [speaker002:] yeah um-hum [speaker001:] and so we we've been all over okay Kyle he sunburn in the kitchen so I keep having to scratch his back [speaker002:] oh [speaker001:] the uh I would love to get a business going out of my home outside of I mean going [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] yeah I'd would work at home if I could [speaker002:] well that's well see and and that is uh the sort of the thing of the nineties is women working out of their own home [speaker001:] yeah that's the trend yeah they are bringing offices I mean just I mean big businesses into their homes bringing their computers home and working from there [speaker002:] right and I think you know the more we try to you know shape that the more input we have into what that whole system is going to look like because that's that's our choice now too that's that's our cause [speaker001:] well I think for I think one that would be uh it's uh kids could see their parents you know how hard they work [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] they would understand more when uh we first moved down here I was working I was working a twelve hour shift it was three and four days a week [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] and uh oh my little boy just [speaker002:] oh [speaker001:] he went wild you know I mean because because he had been used to me [speaker002:] being there all the time yeah [speaker001:] being there all the time yeah and he's just now well when I got pregnant I went ahead and quit work and decided just to stay at home and it was costing too much at home than more at home than I was bringing in so [speaker002:] yeah see the the the economic situation on the whole thing and then uh well it's see we do have things that we're concerned about here this generation I don't know [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] social change is always going to go on but I think we have taken a big leap in the last you know twenty thirty years and um nothing is the same [speaker001:] no it seems like it's totally different of course I do not have much to compare it to to me our causes don't seem as important as you all's were do you know what I mean [speaker002:] well yeah but we we grew we passed them on to you you know I mean I said we passed them on to you I mean you know because it takes a lot of hard work it takes writing letters to congressmen and [speaker001:] you you what we passed them on to us [speaker002:] and you know just being very very politically astute about how to shape and mold the future and and u you know um did we make the right choices we do not know we will never know [speaker001:] no [speaker002:] I mean you know I I think we made a wrong choice when I look at the children of today yeah I think we made some big wrong choices and I think business got in the way I think the greed of the eighties got [speaker001:] okay yeah

[speaker001:] [Beep] Okay. Uh, do you own a P C by the way? I'm guessing you probably do. [speaker002:] I don't have one in my home here. My, um, [lipsmack] parents have one and they live just about three miles away, [speaker001:] Oh. [speaker002:] so we use that one. [speaker001:] I see. [speaker002:] And my in-laws also have one, and they're almost as close. [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] They're in Richardson. [speaker001:] Uh-huh, uh-huh. And what kinds of things do you use it for when you us-, when you go to their hous-, houses to them? [speaker002:] Um, usually, uh, word processing something, um, [lipsmack] such as, oh, forms for things, uh, [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] also I have a nine year old that I've been home schooling for the last three years. [speaker001:] Oh. [speaker002:] And we got, uh, the one that my parents have is an Apple Two E. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] And I have a sister-in-law who is, who works in the Fort Worth school district. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] And so she got me copies of, uh, several of the Apple programs [speaker001:] Great. [speaker002:] for school programs, [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] and so we use those and there's some, whenever we go over and visit grandma the kids love to play the computer game, so, [speaker001:] Oh, sure. [speaker002:] that's part of it. Um, my husband has used the one at his folks house for mostly business things. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] Uh, his resume, his, uh, letter, he's been applying for jobs and things, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] so that type of thing. Uh, forms for his photography business, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] and that kind of thing. [speaker001:] Yeah, well, I tell you once you get used to having them you, you get spoiled really quickly. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] Uh, [speaker002:] I'm, uh, my father had a software company, [speaker001:] Oh. [speaker002:] and they have a bunch of computers leftover from that [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] and we're hoping that they can put [talking] together something for us here that we can have the word processing, [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] here [talking]. But, um, they're kind of [talking] old [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] older so I'm not sure that we'll be able to do, get too many other programs for it. [speaker001:] Yeah, yeah. Um, I n-, I'm a, a writer by profession and, uh, when, when I was first here in, in Dallas or in Plano, um, and was finally able to, this is, {F oh, been like fourteen years ago we moved here. } And I was finally able to afford a new typewriter, and I got an I B M Selectric. I thought I had died and gone to heaven because [LAUGHTER], [speaker002:] Oh. [speaker001:] I thought, oh, they're so wonderful. [speaker002:] I have one of those. Yeah. [speaker001:] Well, then, um, [speaker002:] Mine's broke at the moment, but [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Yeah, [LAUGHTER] ours really needs to have some work done on it but, but then my husband, um, worked at T I and I got a, um, this has been years ago he doesn't work there anymore, but he got a, um, [lipsmack] uh, the, the T I professional and brought that home and I learned Wordstar on that, [speaker002:] Oh. [speaker001:] and, boy once that happened, there was just no way that I could ever go back to doing anything of length of the typewriter. [speaker002:] Yeah, I learned, I, I learned Wordstar, uh, I did some typing for my father when he had the company [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] and so I learned that on there too, that was, [speaker001:] Yeah. Have you ever used, do you use WordPerfect ever? Have you ever used WordPerfect? Or, [speaker002:] I haven't. That's the one that my father, well, I guess I have used it once or twice. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] Uh, it's the one that's on my father-in-law's computer. [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] He's got on I B M. [speaker001:] Yeah, yeah. That's probably where you've used it. [speaker002:] And, uh, so that's the program that they're using there. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. Yeah. Um, I have that on my, uh, computer here and also, um, I do some work at U T D and, uh, that's what they have there and it was just so nice to be able just to step into the position and, and already know the langu-, you know, already know the, the software. And, um, I don't know from my own experience, um, WordPerfect is just so much better than, than Wordstar at least the version of Wordstar that I used to have. It may be improved by now but, [speaker002:] That's what I've heard. [speaker001:] Yeah, it's, uh, Wordstar was never very intuitive to me. I mean you know, you, some of the commands just had nothing to do with, you know, what you were supposed to be doing what they, what they did on the com-, computer but, uh, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] I mean like going, um, forward and backward a word or up and down a line that sort of thing just, you know, didn't match with the kinds of keys, [speaker002:] Yeah, you had to, [speaker001:] you were using. [speaker002:] memorize it, [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] and, [speaker001:] And, but WordPerfect is just a lot more intuitive in a lot of ways. And you, and it does a lot of things too that if you, if you do any kind of, uh, research or anything like that where you have to, uh, use footnotes, it is just wonderful. [speaker002:] Oh. [speaker001:] Because it keeps track of all your footnotes. [speaker002:] Oh, that's neat. [speaker001:] Yeah, and if you add it, if you put a footnote in, in the middle, you know, if you come up with some new piece of documentation and you put that in the middle of your paper and have to footnote it, you just change, um, it just automatically changes all your footnoting numbers for you. [speaker002:] Oh, how wonderful. [speaker001:] [Lipsmack] So, you know, it's just, [speaker002:] That, I had heard that that was better. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] That was a better one. [speaker001:] Yeah. And I think about how it used to be if you were doing a paper [LAUGHTER] and you had to go back and retype everything, and oh, it was just awful. So, um, I don't know I think we have just become really spoiled. But I think, [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] it's a nice kind of way to be spoiled [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Yeah, I agree [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] So, um, well, I have not really paid much attention because I clock, [speaker002:] [Talking]. [speaker001:] although I think we've probably been talking at least ten minutes so, um, if you, um, unless you have some other things you want to talk about as having to do with P C -s. [speaker002:] Not too much. What kind of, what kind of things do you write? [speaker001:] Well, um, I was a technical writer for many years, um, [speaker002:] Oh [baby talking]. [speaker001:] and my husband and I actually met in a computer company. Um, I was a tech writer and he was an engineer. And, uh, so I did tech writing for a number of years. [speaker002:] [Baby crying] [talks to her baby]. Go talk to Daddy about it. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Excuse me. [speaker001:] Oh, sure. [speaker002:] [Talks to her baby] Go on and talk to Daddy about it [baby crying]. Tell Daddy I unplugged it for you. But you don't need to drag it down the hall [baby crying]. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Got a problem, huh? [LAUGHTER] Um, [speaker002:] [Noise] Daddy, Daddy came home and found her playing with the telephone that I had unplugged [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Oh. Trying to figure out what all that was about, huh? [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] But, um, I have, um, that, that was the majority of my writing although, um, I have also done oh, free lance magazine writing and some educational writing. And, um, [lipsmack] for a while I had a, um, [lipsmack] uh, a partnership with a, in an advertising agency with another woman who is a, an artist. So I did some advertising and P R but, [speaker002:] Huh. [speaker001:] um, now I'm, actually I'm, I'm not working anymore. I'm a student, I'm a graduate student so I'm doing a lot of writing but, uh, now all of the sc-, scholastic majors though, [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] I've done a little, a lot of different kinds, but I, I just know right now that I couldn't have put out half of what I did if that much without the being in computers so that's been really great. And, uh, I'm, so I'm real spoiled. [speaker002:] Yeah. I'm anxious some day to have one here. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] I'm, and they just talked to the other day other day about setting something up again so [speaker001:] Uh-huh. Yeah. [speaker002:] hopefully pretty soon we'll at least have the word processing. My nine year old I've decided to teach her how to type [speaker001:] Good. [speaker002:] using the computer, so. [speaker001:] That's great. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] I've, [speaker001:] Well, those are skills that she certainly w-, is going to need early on and, you know, [lipsmack] the, [speaker002:] That's right. [speaker001:] and it seems like it's getting earlier and earlier with the children. So, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] um, I think that that would be a real, a real, uh, advantage to, to her to have that and, uh, [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] do it early, so. Uh, do yo-, d-, [speaker002:] We've been, we've been, uh, writing a story together. [speaker001:] Oh, neat. [speaker002:] And so I, and I wanted her to put it into the computer, [speaker001:] Yes. [speaker002:] and then print it out and, [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] make a book with it, you know. [speaker001:] Oh, great. [speaker002:] And so I decided well, if she's going to do that, it would be a whole lot easier if she could type [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Right [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] So we'll slowly learn just to type here and then [speaker001:] That's great. [speaker002:] then put the story in. [speaker001:] Well, that's a, that's a skill that she can use for the rest of her life, so [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Yes, yes. [speaker001:] Might as well start now, huh? [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] I agree. [speaker001:] Well, Nola I have enjoyed talking with you thoroughly. This is really going to be fun I think, [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] and, um, my husband is a ham radio operator and I think about all the people that he talks to all over the,

[speaker001:] well I have a a couple of of of small children one is four uh the other one's an infant and when we were looking for care for the older child when he was about nine weeks or so I uh I I had to go back to work I wanted to find someplace with a very uh low ratio of of children to to care giver so that the so that my infant could could really receive a lot of attention and for that first couple of of years I was able to find that in in a family setting uh uh a a day care provider offering services out of her own home but her circumstances circumstances changed and she lost the the help that she had uh so that they were really now quite a number of of demands on her time and we switched over to to a uh a commercial day care service which actually is the best of of both worlds it's it's not a a big chain and they do have separate rooms for the the different developmental ages so it the the youngest one now the the the new infant still receives personalized care uh but at the same school his his older brother is receiving uh basically pre kindergarten care [speaker002:] my situation is a little bit different but it still covers the same type of problem I am a grandmother but I'm also employed but my grandson and his father moved back in and lived with us for about a year and so and he was about four so it was sort of like another generation raising a a a child and we're all working adults so it I have some of the same problems it's no longer a problem now that he is older and in school but this has been a problem no matter what generation you're in and one of the things that and then also in the setting where I work I see a lot of uh young people especially uh young women with children who have to take time off because of problems with the babysitting or child care services and I think uh one of the things that and also when I had the grandson my grandson here that we were keeping care of him one of the main problems that affects work and affects the care too is when you're as any when the child is the least bit sick uh uh the you have to come get them there's a problem and one of the things I would like to see would be a type of day care service where there is uh at the same place where they're care for as a well child they have facilities for uh sick care [speaker001:] I I I know I I've had the problem myself where the child might might begin to run a a low grade fever and the school calls up and says come get your come get your child uh your child looks like maybe he has conjunctivitis come get your child immediately whether or not [speaker002:] come get him yeah [speaker001:] it's really true uh come get your child immediately uh it and that's it's it is a big disruption uh it's particularly bad in the first year if you're back to work and you know how frequently that you have to go to the doctor for the little ones just for checkups alone in the first year uh sometimes your boss doesn't think that that's really terrific [speaker002:] no [speaker001:] but you have to take time off and and go take your child to to well baby care on top of that now the the general cold and sniffles and and the first year illnesses and the school doesn't want to want to keep your child we do have up here um and some of the hospitals do this as a way of defraying their costs they run day cares for sick children out of their hospital facilities but [speaker002:] well that's an interesting yeah [speaker001:] that it and it's it's an interesting way to approach it but there's a problem I don't know how many parents would be willing to take their children to a a a location a child has never seen [speaker002:] oh that's that's another reason why I would preferred it to be with the same services the facility that I work with is a large facility and they're looking at day care now and I would love to see day care on site where if you have lunch you can go over and spend it with a child uh if you have and I would like a twenty four hour day care and it's big enough where it could do that where if you worked different shifts uh you could uh uh bring the child in [speaker001:] and but yeah [speaker002:] for the night where you know they would be there with you and you can stop in at anytime on your break so that your the check and balances of the type of care is subject to anybody stopping in anytime [speaker001:] I I know we we would've liked to

[speaker001:] And, uh, what part of Virginia, uh? [speaker002:] Uh, I live down in the south western part of Blacksburg. [speaker001:] Blacksburg. Okay, I've been, [speaker002:] Uh-huh, have you ever heard of Virginia Tech? [speaker001:] Sounds vaguely familiar. [speaker002:] V P I. [speaker001:] Yeah, okay. [speaker002:] Yeah, okay. [speaker001:] I, I hadn't been down in that part of the state really. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. Okay. Well, we vacation a lot. How about you? [LAUGHTER]. Quite frequently. [speaker001:] Uh, I wish we did [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] Well, we retired early [speaker001:] Oh, okay. [speaker002:] so, we're, we take trips pretty often. [speaker001:] Where all you guys go? [speaker002:] Well, we go to Maine every Fall [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] then that's kind of a family visit and a vacation all up and down the coast [speaker001:] Uh-uh. [speaker002:] and I have a daughter in Texas and one in New Mexico, so we go out there and we go to Florida [speaker001:] Uh. [speaker002:] and down, oh, we were just out recently at the outer banks of North Carolina. [speaker001:] All these places that I've never been [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Is that right [LAUGHTER]. Where do you go? [speaker001:] Uh [speaker002:] What type of vacation? [speaker001:] well, it really depends, I mean, uh, [pause] seems like I do a lot in the Midwest lately, uh, my, uh, fiancee's family's from Wisconsin [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] and so we've been out there a couple of times and, uh, I, uh, went to Purdue for a couple of years, so I've gone up to Indianapolis on occasion to visit friends [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] and, uh, uh, I'm a real big baseball fan so I usually try to combine it with, uh, catching a couple of games somewhere. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. What club do you follow? [speaker001:] I'm, uh, I'm a big Red Sox fan, [speaker002:] Red S-, good, [speaker001:] but, uh, I, uh, [speaker002:] me too [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] uh, you're a Red Sox fan too? [speaker002:] Yeah, uh-huh. [speaker001:] I usually try to catch whoever's in town though, I don't specifically, I, you know, go to Cleveland to see them play, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] the Indians or the Red Sox, uh, uh, that's about it, we don't, I mean, we do a lot of little trips around here, uh, and, uh, [speaker002:] Ever go up in Pennsylvania in the mountains or, [speaker001:] Not that much. We've gone out to, um, uh, a place in western Pennsylvania called Falling Water. [speaker002:] Oh. [speaker001:] Uh, have you ever heard of it? [speaker002:] I've heard of it. I've never been there. [speaker001:] Yeah, it's, it's really neat. It's this house built on, on a waterfall and it's, uh, really cool [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] Um, of course, we keep picking crummy weather to go out there, [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] uh, the first time we went out there was, uh, the day after hurricane Hugo had come through [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] Gee. [speaker001:] So, I mean they, they didn't have any power and it was really cold and, and rainy and, uh, we went up about a year later and it was better but not a whole, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] lot better [LAUGHTER]. So, uh, where else did we go, uh, [pause] we've gone to Richland, last year [speaker002:] Oh, did you? [speaker001:] and, uh, had a good time, [speaker002:] Did you go, [speaker001:] down there. [speaker002:] to Williamsburg, have you been down there? [speaker001:] Uh, my girlfriend has with her sisters but I haven't been, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] down there. Uh, I hear that's nice. We're going to get down, probably down Norfork sometime this Summer, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] just to see why, catch a football game actually [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] We were down, well, when we came back from the outer banks we came up due Norfork [NOISE] and spent the night there with a friend in Portsmith and then went to Williamsburg and spent a night. [speaker001:] Uh, spend a day and a lot of money [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] Yeah [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Yeah, I've heard, uh, I'm not real interested in Williamsburg because of the, of the price attached, [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] to it. We just, we, I, [speaker002:] But it's a pretty neat down to just go and walk around, if you like to walk, it's a good town to just, [speaker001:] Uh. [speaker002:] walk in. [speaker001:] Uh, yeah, we'll, [speaker002:] You can go, [speaker001:] do that. [speaker002:] to the buildings and not go in if you're not, [speaker001:] Oh, okay, so I can wander around without, [speaker002:] Yeah, you can wander, it's a good town to wander in. [speaker001:] Oh, okay, I just have it pay somebody to get into the buildings? [speaker002:] That's right. [speaker001:] Oh, okay, I didn't know that. Yeah, I think, uh, they do the whole with, you know, paying, [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] they really did throw away a lot of money to get, getting one thing or another, [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] but they had a good time so. [speaker002:] We really didn't do that really this time, we just, uh, visited around. [speaker001:] Uh, uh, [speaker002:] We've done it a couple of times and that's enough for, uh, [LAUGHTER] probably another twenty years. [speaker001:] Yeah, I was, uh, we use it live in California and, uh, my, um, up, up around San Francisco, and, uh, there was one year when my father was, uh, my father's company was starting to do stuff down in Los Angeles, so, my father was working down in Los Angeles for like, uh, six months or so, uh, actually I think it was closer, I think to a full year and, you know, we'd, he'd fly down there on Mondays and fly back on Fridays, well, any time we had a school vacation or something like that we went down to Los Angeles, so I saw, I went to Disneyland about five times, [speaker002:] Oh [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] in one year and I really have no great urge to go back now. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] That's great as a kid though, isn't it, I mean, [speaker001:] Oh, it was great, because, uh, well, the times that were really fun were when, uh, we had vacation but the kids in Los Angeles didn't [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] so we basically had one of the parks. [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] Uh, Disneyland, I mean there's still a lot of people at Disneyland, but there was another, um, another amusement park down there, Busch Gradens, uh, there was nobody there when we were there, we got, we won a log floating ride like five straight times, we just get, get done with them and they go, oh, do you want to go again, [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] sure. [speaker002:] Have you ever, you've never been down to Epcot at Florida and Disney [speaker001:] No, I'd like to, [speaker002:] that's good, [speaker001:] sometime but, [speaker002:] we, we really enjoy that, we've been two or three times and probably go back again this winter. [speaker001:] Yeah, I've never been, the fartherest south I've been on the East Coast is Charlotte. [speaker002:] Oh. [speaker001:] So, I, um, keep wanting to get further, you know, I thought I would go to Florida a couple Summers, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] ago but never did it. [speaker002:] Charleston is a really nice place to visit. [speaker001:] My, uh, my sister lives in Charlotte and they've gone to, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] Charleston a couple of times and had a real good, [speaker002:] Yeah, [speaker001:] time. [speaker002:] it's a real pretty place. [speaker001:] Uh, yeah, one of these days we'll get down there, although [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] I don't know when we're going to have vacation to do it [LAUGHTER] [pause]. We're, uh, we're getting married in about, [speaker002:] Oh, are you. [speaker001:] a year and, [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] our honeymoon, we're going up to this, um, uh, place in Wisconsin called Door County, it's up by Green Bay. It's a place my girlfriend's also wanted, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] to go, and, uh, [speaker002:] Is it on, uh, one of the lakes? [speaker001:] It's, um, uh, I don't if you've ever seen a map of Wisconsin but there's kind of like a little, a little thing sticking out, uh, [LAUGHTER] in the Lake Michigan, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] that's Door County [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Oh, okay, yeah, that would, [speaker001:] So, [speaker002:] be really nice. [speaker001:] Yeah, they call it the Cape Cod of the, uh, [speaker002:] Oh [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] the Midwest so, uh, we're thinking that'll be a lot of fun, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] she, uh, she had this, uh, book of pictures from it that were really nice, kind of like a travel guide [speaker002:] Uh-huh, sounds good. [speaker001:] so, uh, that should be a lot of fun. [speaker002:] Well, I don't know what our next trip will be, I guess our next, well, I know what my next trip, I'm going to be a grandmother in July [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Oh. [speaker002:] The first, the first one, [speaker001:] Oh, boy. [speaker002:] so my next trip is going to be to Texas [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Oh, that'll be fun [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Yeah, in the middle, in the middle of the Summer. [speaker001:] Well, yeah, you won't even, [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] notice it though [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Well, they'll be air-conditioning anyway so. [speaker001:] Is that, is that how you got into this, uh, this, [speaker002:] Yeah, [speaker001:] you know, uh, data base? [speaker002:] my daughter's a temp at Texas Instruments, [speaker001:] Oh, okay. [speaker002:] and working on this project. [speaker001:] Yeah, I was, I was just, I mean most of the people I've talk to are from, are from Texas, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] so, when I, you know, when I heard you were from Virginia I was like, oh, okay, there's somebody different, and you said, oh, I got somebody down in Texas, I go, okay, that the connection, [speaker002:] That's it, yeah [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] right there [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] I talked to one in California, I never asked him the other day how he was connected, I don't think he was T I employee. [speaker001:] Uh, I, uh, most people talk to Texas, there's been a couple of other the people, uh, most of whom are like me that work in, in speech labs that are going to use data base, [speaker002:] Oh, I see. [speaker001:] eventually. So, uh, it was fun I, actually yesterday, I ended up talking to somebody else from the same lab I'm in. [speaker002:] Is that right. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] Well, we spent last week end in Charlotte with real good friends that had just, [speaker001:] Oh. [speaker002:] moved to back East from Oklahoma, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] and she's, uh, working on this project too, I mean she's talking on the project too [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] and, uh, we got back Monday [squeak] and I got a call yesterday [LAUGHTER] and it was her, [LAUGHTER] on T I Network [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Uh, that's neat. I haven't, uh, I haven't had something like that happen, just, uh, just getting the one guy, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] from the lab. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Uh, you're sure have a nice town, uh, my, uh, sister lives on Lake, [speaker002:] Oh, does, [speaker001:] Norman, just, [speaker002:] she, that's nice out there. [speaker001:] Yeah, uh, we keep wanting to get down there and visit them over the Summer and it's, [speaker002:] Uh-huh, [speaker001:] never really works out. [speaker002:] yeah, it's real pretty. [speaker001:] Yeah [pause] [lipsmack]. [speaker002:] Well [pause] [lipsmack] [pause]. [speaker001:] Traffic, not much else we do for vacation really, uh, just so we don't, haven't been able to take really. [speaker002:] Are you a golfer? No. [speaker001:] No. [speaker002:] Me either. [speaker001:] No. Are you guys, [speaker002:] No, uh-huh, [speaker001:] golfers or, uh, [speaker002:] no, uh-huh, nope, not too much into sports. [speaker001:] Except our outside, though. [speaker002:] Just walking that's all [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Oh, I don't think there are any, traveling that was in my early teens down in that area and I'm know real sure there are, um, [speaker002:] No professionals [squeak]. [speaker001:] When, {F uh, } I was thinking I might be minor league but, [speaker002:] Oh, there's one in Salem, Salem Rebels. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] Salem Rebels, [speaker001:] Buccaneers. [speaker002:] Buccaneers. Oh, okay. [speaker001:] Yeah, um, yeah, I may be seeing them, um, in a town just west of here, Frederick has a, uh, has a minor league team that [squeak] plays in the same league with Salem and, uh, I think we may be seeing them this, [speaker002:] Oh, [speaker001:] weekend [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] is that right [LAUGHTER] up there in Frederick? [speaker001:] Yeah, I think they're out of town. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] Yeah. Uh, that's a nice little town actually, Frederick, uh, [speaker002:] I've never been up there. I've never visited Baltimore. I'd like to go just sight see a little bit sometime. [speaker001:] Oh, there's, there's some nice things in Baltimore, you know, the Inner Harbor and the, uh, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] the Aquarium and all that are very nice. Uh, they've just done a, uh, you known, I, you know, the Aquarium is one of those things that, you know, because everybody,

[speaker001:] you wanna go first [speaker002:] well uh no I don't I don't get as much exercise as I as I should as or or as I would like to uh um these days I'd seems to be to easy to get busy with other things uh I have in the past uh jogged and and run and every every January and every September I start out again and then it tapers off [speaker001:] really [speaker002:] uh what about you [speaker001:] well yeah I do a lot of exercise right now I'm into jazzercise which I absolutely love um I started about two years ago because I gained some weight over the past few years and I wanted to get it back off [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] and I was going through a divorce and I just found that running really made me feel good got out a lot of aggression I went to the gym every day and I ran on the treadmill and rode the bike and [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] um I felt really good I needed to do it and it was really helpful at the time now when I do those things they are boring I would rather be outside than in the gym doing this in one place [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] and so I just recently discovered jazzercise about two months ago and I'm getting to be a good dancer from it and I'm just feeling really good I love the class it's real challenging so I'm really into that I really like that a lot and it [speaker002:] well now that's that's it it that's related to the the aerobic uh society [speaker001:] it is it's aerobics but it's with dance steps it's an aerobic exercise and it's an hour straight and it's just um it's a lot of fun I feel like I'm not just exercising [speaker002:] okay yeah yeah [speaker001:] because I'm dancing and I'm I'm getting much better my stamina's getting great for the dance floor so I mean it's just there's a lot of positive things with it so [speaker002:] yeah well uh okay now that's inside again right [speaker001:] it is inside and I've been doing a lot of bike riding outside with the nice weather we've been having and I enjoy that much more too than inside [speaker002:] but it do do you like to do it with with other people I mean like the the jazzercise would be [speaker001:] I have a thirteen year old daughter and so we go bike riding and it's nice we get to spend some time together rather than I go to the gym while she does her homework so I've enjoyed that part of it yeah [speaker002:] yeah yeah [speaker001:] and at the gym even in the class uh I we do we it's not really a group where you chat a lot everybody's on their way to someplace [speaker002:] right but [speaker001:] and so you know I do have one friend that goes occasionally but basically I do it by myself in a group of maybe forty so [speaker002:] yeah right right but still there are other there are other people there doing the doing the same thing in that in terms of motivation and incentive yeah [speaker001:] there are there are it's more motivating that way I think yeah yeah you could get a tape probably and do it at home in front of the TV but you you probably wouldn't [speaker002:] yeah yeah uh that makes a difference doesn't I I've one thing more when I have [speaker001:] so yeah [speaker002:] run and jogged uh I've always enjoyed doing it by myself and and no no not with the sense that was a a chore or something that I was having to do I I've really enjoyed just the activity and and uh I write software uh as far as the job and so getting getting out and being active uh is uh uh helps out the the it's a change the change the change of pace and just getting out and around and and I find that I can often you know often uh when I get around to doing it then I I feel better when I get back to work and the and uh [speaker001:] yeah yeah I can see it'll be a good break right uh-huh [speaker002:] uh also that that it my subconscious is working on things while I'm working and I I go back and I've got new ideas but but still [speaker001:] yeah yeah I think you do you feel very good after you exercise I think it's worth making the time for yourself you owe it to yourself and I think you do accomplish more after that [speaker002:] yeah yeah yeah [speaker001:] and I think that it's just is good for your self esteem for everything because when you look better you feel better and it's just uh I think it's well worth it I just demand that time for myself now I've learned to do that and it you know and it I think it just benefits you all around [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] so [speaker002:] yeah I think that's uh I I think that's a good term demanding demanding the time for yourself but you you've just got to you've just got to prioritize right [speaker001:] you have to because there's always more things to do there is always things that you can make priority to it but I just I don't demand a lot for myself and so [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] you know I just feel entitled to it and I take it [speaker002:] well good well good well uh [speaker001:] so [speaker002:] uh have you have you done any jogging I tell you said you you did on the on the bike and on the treadmill in the in the uh clubs [speaker001:] no I've done some walking with friends in the past but I find that when you do that you do more chatting than you do exercise and that's not really beneficial [speaker002:] um-hum yeah [speaker001:] so uh [speaker002:] yeah yeah [speaker001:] I don't have time like that and I spend enough time chatting around everywhere you know and the phone

[speaker001:] Why don't you start? [speaker002:] Oh, I don't know. I, uh, I refinished a couple of old, uh, dressers that were gi-, handed down. You know, nice it's nice tongue and groove, uh, uh, construction. Uh, [inhaling] that's been, I've been pretty successful with that. [speaker001:] Things you already owned or things that you've picked up just to do that? [speaker002:] What? [speaker001:] Are they things you already owned or you pick them up just to do that refinishing? [speaker002:] No, I've done some other things too. Uh, you know. [speaker001:] Yeah. I've done both [throat clearing]. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] Uh, uh, my wife has picked up a couple of things saying, uh, boy if we could refinish that, that would be a [NOISE] beautiful piece of furniture and, uh, we've done it a couple of times. I guess that [speaker002:] Oh, yeah. [speaker001:] we've been fairly successful with those. That's, uh, that's a kind of low risk sort of project, isn't it I guess. [speaker002:] Yeah. That's a good way to get started. [speaker001:] Uh, I have a, a, uh, really nice desk. A nicer desk than I could afford. Which [LAUGHTER] I got because my sister who worked in a hospital, uh [speaker002:] Uh-huh [very faint]. [speaker001:] liberated it after a fire and, uh, we stripped it all the way down and refinished it and it turned out to be really nice, uh, a nice desk. [speaker002:] Uh-huh [very faint]. [speaker001:] Maple top I think or [throat clearing] or [speaker002:] Uh-huh [very faint] [clink]. [speaker001:] something of that sort. [speaker002:] Yeah. I, I, uh, put together a, a, up rolltop desk from scratch. [speaker001:] Oh, really? [speaker002:] You know, a kit. [speaker001:] Oh. I'm jealous. [speaker002:] Yeah. Still had to cut it and everything, but [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] it was fun. [speaker001:] Yeah [throat clearing]. I, I do do things, uh, that might be too crude to be called woodworking. I've built my own deck and, uh [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] [Sniffing] things like that. [speaker002:] Yeah. I, I've done the same. You know, like the trim around the house [LAUGHTER] you know [speaker001:] And, uh [speaker002:] the baseboards and things like that. [speaker001:] [Throat clearing] I definitely have begun to accumulate tools too. My, I, uh [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] I picked up a bunch of Craftsman tools from the forties that my wife's father owned when he was alive and so I do have a band saw and a router and, uh, things like that out in the garage. But I can't say I use them very often [throat clearing]. [speaker002:] Um. Yeah , I'm looking at trying to get a router right now. [speaker001:] They're handy, uh, they [speaker002:] . [speaker001:] they come in handy at the most unusual times. Putting doors in is the time when I'm, uh, I bought myself a, uh, template for making mortices and doors and that's a whole lot easier than doing it with a chisel [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] I'll bet. [speaker001:] But I've, also, I've also used them for building drawers where you, uh, for rabbeting and, uh, because, uh, rabbeting on my table, on my, uh, radial arm saw is a little bit uncertain [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] [Talking] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] So, I got one for Christmas a few years ago and used it quite a bit for the first eight months I had it and now I use it twice a year maybe [throat clearing]. [speaker002:] Yeah. My br-, my brother's used it a lot for making drawers. I don't [speaker001:] The big, [speaker002:] know, what, what's your opinion of wha-, what a good router is like? You know I, [speaker001:] [Throat clearing] Uh, I guess it, [speaker002:] Because he was tell me like the ones that you dial in aren't all that great. They've plastic parts and stuff. [speaker001:] [Throat clearing] The ones that what? [speaker002:] That you dial in on the side. [speaker001:] Uh, I have never even s-, I have never even looked at one closely. Uh, the, the [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] little use that I've gotten from my router, I would say, uh, I would spend my money on the bits [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] Uh, I have a, I'd guess you'd call a medium quality Craftsman router and the, uh, [speaker002:] How strong is it? [speaker001:] [Throat clearing] It's strong enough for any job where you don't try to take more than say three-eighths of an inch at a time. But the problem is that the, uh, as with any, any time you buy a, a [speaker002:] Don't they, [speaker001:] tool with [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] a, a, as a, as a package [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] the bits that they give you are low end. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] [Throat clearing] So the price of a good set of, uh, carbide steel, uh, bits is probably, uh, I mean, a, a good set of bits is probably going to run you a hundred dollars and, uh, uh, if you're going to use for a lifetime I suppose it's worth it. Because y-, e-, uh, I imagine if I go and sharpen them myself, uh, they won't last [throat clearing]. And I've never had the bits sharpened [sniffing]. So. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] That's a thing to consider is to, [speaker002:] They, they really get hot don't they? [speaker001:] Yeah. And they, they dull after awhile. Especially, I did some cabinets in, uh, ash and oak [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] and, uh, that, that wears a bit down. We remodeled and saved a bunch of really nice ash cabinets, uh [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] which had been in the original, [speaker002:] [Children]. [speaker001:] remodeling of our kitchen. [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] [Swallowing] And I saved them and built an oven cabinet out of one and another cabinet out of another by using the faces and so forth [throat clearing]. And, uh, [speaker002:] [Talking]. [speaker001:] routing hardwood will, uh, take the edge off a cheap bit pretty fast [sniffing]. So. [speaker002:] Yeah. I've cut some one by eight oak before [LAUGHTER]. Boy was that fun. [speaker001:] Right. That's, uh, [speaker002:] Big solid pieces of oak are just [speaker001:] And then you take the blade to the [speaker002:] tough. [speaker001:] to get sharpened, right [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] Well, that was, you know, with a, with a circular saw. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] Like, oh my gosh. [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] Is this going to be fun [LAUGHTER]? [speaker001:] Yeah [throat clearing]. Well I've used mine on treated wood and now all my blades need sharpening. [speaker002:] [Children] Yeah. [speaker001:] Because, uh, treated wood will also chew them up. [speaker002:] Treated wood can really make you sick too.

[speaker001:] okay we're on [speaker002:] okay well I just on on gun control I just always felt like that I think I don't think it hurts for anybody to wait for a week or two before they get a gun if somebody goes in to buy one so that they can check that person out um I don't believe that most of the criminal acts that are done are done by guns that are bought in a gun shop though I believe it's probably bought across the market and I don't think gun control is gonna have any control over that at all [speaker001:] so uh you're you're for no restrictions or [speaker002:] uh uh sort of a a little bit of restriction maybe I might say if a criminal if a criminal should go happen to go into a gun store I don't think it would hurt anybody to wait a week [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] to go back and pick up that gun so that they can check them out [speaker001:] yeah right [speaker002:] and if it is somebody like that then no but I really think that most of the criminals in our city who have guns do not go into a gun store and buy them I think they get them from other means [speaker001:] I what kind what what kind of means would those be [speaker002:] oh I don't know like from each other you know uh [speaker001:] uh-huh in other words you're saying that it would be hard uh to get rid of all of the guns [speaker002:] I think so [speaker001:] well doesn't it doesn't doesn't London have a ban on firearms England [speaker002:] jeez now I don't know [speaker001:] yeah don't they carry don't their policemen over there carry these billy clubs [speaker002:] that's right nobody over there carries guns [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] I don't know if we could get away with guns completely I guess [speaker001:] well it would be nice uh uh to be able to take your family out uh especially when they're dependent on you and not worry about uh having to have a gun just to protect yourself and them [speaker002:] that's right I agree with that I agree with that I we do not own one um and I don't intend to buy one and I'm not a hunter I guess those people feel a little bit different but I don't believe in hunting either so you know [speaker001:] well I have a couple of guns and uh one I always worry about somebody getting ahold of it that that you know won't know how to handle it [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] and uh probably never will do me any good because the bullets in one place and the firearm's in another [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] and I carry one in the pickup uh and I worry about it being stolen and uh of course I'm like you I don't like to kill things [speaker002:] no I don't either well it is terrible when you have to ride down the street and think somebody could just shoot at you for nothing which has been in the news a lot lately you know no apparent reason [speaker001:] so oh yeah and and there's a lot the crazies are out there in numbers [speaker002:] right right [speaker001:] well you know I would love to see a ban uh on firearms and I'd have to rate myself as a number one however I worry that that the that the country could ever get to that point [speaker002:] hm [speaker001:] and then I worry about uh the fact that uh what if there was some sort of insurrection in this country in this country [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] then uh how would we as citizens uh band together and ever put down an uprising if there were no firearms [speaker002:] uprising you think we could ever get to that point where there would be no firearms [speaker001:] I don't think we ever will [speaker002:] I don't either that's the problem not in this country [speaker001:] yeah so somewhere somewhere along the line then uh you know there has to be a happy medium and uh I know the the uh oh what's the organization that uh [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] that the rifle association [speaker002:] oh yes [speaker001:] the gun the uh the gun association is is heavily for no bans whatsoever [speaker002:] yeah well I think we ought to have some [speaker001:] yeah well I think so too so I'd have to vote for uh uh maybe a five in uh and hopefully uh we could put some sort of restriction on the handling of firearms [speaker002:] right I could go for that [speaker001:] like like you suggested [speaker002:] yeah I think that would I think that's the only way [speaker001:] okay Betty well sounds good enough to me then [speaker002:] well I've enjoyed talking to you [speaker001:] well same here and uh one of these days that name's gonna come back to me [speaker002:] oh me me too okay bye-bye [speaker001:] okay sweetheart bye-bye

[speaker001:] that proposal [speaker002:] well actually I've I you know it kind of caught me by surprise I haven't ever really thought about uh you know mandatory public service I obviously believe in public service and you know think it's a good idea I I I I'm not sure if they would get [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] the service they anticipate if they force it do you understand what I'm saying I mean you know you're gonna get a lot more commitment a lot more desire a lot more uh [speaker001:] that's a good yeah good point [speaker002:] maybe quality time effort energy from somebody who really truly wants to be there so although I believe in it I'm not sure requiring it would be the way to go [speaker001:] um-hum you know what I've noticed at least in our in my field that that works is to require before a person can enter the school program that they do a number of volunteer hours in that field or in in an environment that's related to that field and [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] that might be more motivating um in relation to what you just mentioned if it were somehow of interest to them [speaker002:] that's true if there were enough opportunities [speaker001:] I suppose uh that would really require a lot of participation on the part of employers to require a certain number of community uh community service hours in their area that's [speaker002:] well that or have something available in that field you know and and when you go to employers then is it really a public service [speaker001:] um [speaker002:] thing or more of an internship you know I don't know [speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh I really like the idea of young people getting a chance to to do something of a volunteer nature maybe in another country but that that's difficult for a lot of people I guess financially to to manage but it would certainly I think contribute to a person's responsibility and and sense of maturity um to recognize what other cultures and other countries go through in terms of their day to day existence if you're working in Peace Corps for example you're really gonna be able to learn those things [speaker002:] I I definitely agree and I I had you know some family that did serve in the Peace Corps and I I always thought it was a wonderful thing um I I do think that if people have the opportunity to do it it's something that you know they won't forget it enriches your life and gives you like you said a a good understanding of [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] oh well what do I wanna say we take so much we we take what we have for granted you know we're very blessed in this country and and we take so much for granted because we really don't realize uh [speaker001:] yeah we really um-hum [speaker002:] how other cultures and other other countries live so I I definitely agree that it's it's good I just you know it I I [speaker001:] um-hum um-hum [speaker002:] to to require it I think would take a lot of forethought and planning if you wanna get the type of service you know that you're anticipating that you're hoping for [speaker001:] yes it's a little challenging today too to think about being in another country where there's uh potentially political or military problems that are gonna effect Peace Corps workers if a person is volunteering [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] it's one thing because they recognize there's a minimal danger where where they might be but if you're expecting that they have to do it then you you you perhaps the whoever the whoever the organization is requiring it does assume some responsibility too [speaker002:] that's true that's true and then I guess I can look around you know I I automatically when the uh switchboard suggested Peace Corps I kind of like you I thought international or going out of the country and I I look around though and there's an awful lot of public service that could be done within our own communities and our own [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] you know a lot of times people say I don't wanna go somewhere else I wanna help my own community you know United United Way I want my dollars to work here something like that so that might also be a motivating factor then [speaker001:] yes um-hum um-hum I I think it's terrific to have criminals involved in community services and I really like the idea of avoiding jail time for people who are just um um paying if you wanna call it that for minor offenses having them do something in the in the community [speaker002:] minor offenses yeah I agree I think that's a very good idea what you said the field you're in what field are you in does it apply [speaker001:] I I'm an occupational therapist and so it's hospital work that um I know this is true in occupational therapy as well as physical therapy there's so many people who are applying to the schools right now that they require that you do X number of volunteer hours I think it's a hundred or so before you can even be accepted into the school program to become a therapist [speaker002:] okay so you have to do it in that field actually like if you like you [speaker001:] I believe you do yeah you have to volunteer in a department that that provides occupational therapy or physical therapy if that's the the area you're pursuing I'm sure that there are other reasons for them wanting people to do that because a person may actually get into the program and not have a very good idea of what it is to be an OT or a PT and having been a volunteer they'll certainly see people on the job and recognize well this is really what I wanna do I wanna spend three or four years getting this experience [speaker002:] yes that's true well and it might also make them realize jeez this isn't what I thought it was I don't wanna do this that's a good idea [speaker001:] exactly exactly which which is which is definitely the case in

[speaker001:] [Music] Hello. [speaker002:] Hello. [speaker001:] Hey, how you doing? [speaker002:] Not bad, not bad. What's your name? [speaker001:] Fernando. [speaker002:] Fernando. My name is Nick. [speaker001:] Wait. Let me turn off my stereo here [music]. [speaker002:] Sure [cough]. [speaker001:] Because I've been, like, waiting, like, for about ten minutes to get connected to somebody. [speaker002:] Really? [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] Phew [almost like a whistling sound]. Man, I'm, [speaker001:] Yeah. What time is it over th-, are you, are you in Dallas? [speaker002:] No, no. I'm in Detroit. Or not Detroit. I'm in, uh, California. [speaker001:] Are you? [speaker002:] Yeah. I. [speaker001:] Because every time I got through, I went to Dallas, Texas. [speaker002:] Really? [speaker001:] Yeah. I'm in North Carolina. [speaker002:] Oh. Well, you're on the, uh, let's see, [speaker001:] On the other coast [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Yeah, twenty-one [sounds like he is talking to someone other than speaker]. Yeah. Shoot man, it's, what, midnight almost? [speaker001:] What? Yeah, yeah. It's, uh, I'm watching SATURDAY NIGHT LIVE here. [speaker002:] Yeah, [LAUGHTER] okay. All right. Well I guess we're supposed to talk, what about credit card? [speaker001:] W-, wait. Wh-, what did, how, how did you get to know about the T I thing? [speaker002:] Oh, one of my instructors, uh, said that they were doing something like this and. [speaker001:] Wha-, what are you working on [breathing]? [speaker002:] A, a Masters in, uh, information systems. [speaker001:] Really. I'm doing my Masters in, in computer science and computer engineering. [speaker002:] Yeah? Where at? [speaker001:] At North Carolina State University. [speaker002:] Hey. How do you like it out there [clicking]? [speaker001:] Uh, I don't. Because, uh, I come from a lot, a bigger city than this one and [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] I, I'm in Raleigh and, [speaker002:] Oh. Raleigh Durham. Yeah. [speaker001:] Yeah. That area. And it's really small. All, all you have is like towns built around universities. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] Like Chapel Hill? [speaker002:] Yeah. So it, it's basically a bunch of small towns anyway. Kind of quaint little towns but they [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] don't have a whole lot there. [speaker001:] Where you at? [speaker002:] Uh, well, I'm in Monterey, California right now [barking]. Yeah. [speaker001:] Oh, okay. So, so I mean, it's like this, this town probably has like two hundred and fifty thousand people and that's about it. [speaker002:] Two hundred fifty? [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] Okay. It, it's, it's a lot bigger than Monterey is. But we're just, uh, just south of, uh, San Jose and San Francisco. [speaker001:] Oh, okay. [speaker002:] And it's only a couple of hours away or a hour away to a, you know, to a large city. [speaker001:] So, so where do you go? Do you go to Berkeley? [speaker002:] No, no. I go to the, it's the naval postgraduate school out here. [speaker001:] Oh, okay. Because, uh, I was looking at, at the, [speaker002:] [Cough]. [speaker001:] doctorate degree in computer science center at Berkeley [sigh]. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] And they're asking like for a, uh, G P A of like three point seven or something [speaker002:] [Thumping] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] like that. And like they're looking like for, uh, G R E like ninety-nine percentile and this and that. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] And it's like, [speaker002:] Well, that's what they look for. Whether or not they get it is hard to say [NOISE] [sounds like a chair is drug across the floor]. * spelling: "dragged", not "drug" in this case [speaker001:] [Swallowing] Yeah, I know. That's why, that's why I didn't apply. I mean, it was like [speaker002:] Yeah [talking]. [speaker001:] for me, it was like practically impossible to get between like ninety and, [speaker002:] [Talking]. [speaker001:] ninety-nine percentile on the, on the verbal part. [speaker002:] Yeah. It's pretty tough. It's pretty tough [talking]. I, uh, let's face it, you know. And, you know, I, you know, did the, you know, as far as, I found it a lot of times with, regards to education, you know, the school only takes you so far, you know. It's what you do. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] You know. So, uh, I don't lose any sleep, sleep over stuff like that. [speaker001:] So, are, are you going to go for your Doctorate? [speaker002:] Probably not. See I'm in the Navy. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] And, uh, you know, most of the Navy funds that I probably won't do it until I, if I do do it, it will be after I get out of the Navy. [speaker001:] When do you get out? [speaker002:] Oh, probably be another twelve years. [speaker001:] Oh, okay [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Oh, you know I like what I'm doing right now. [speaker001:] But, uh, but what if they pay for it? [speaker002:] Excuse me? [speaker001:] [Swallowing] What if they pay for? [speaker002:] If they pay for a P H D? [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] Nah, they won't pay for it. They've, I think they have maybe two people a year go get, get their P H D. [speaker001:] Because I know, I know a couple of people here that work for, uh, [inhaling] the Army. Uh, [speaker002:] Yeah. They civilians or, uh, military? [speaker001:] I think, I think they're military. But, {E I [speaker002:] Uh-huh [popping]. [speaker001:] mean, } the guy is still in. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] And, uh, h-, uh, he works over in Maryland [swallowing]. [speaker002:] Uh-huh [talking]. [speaker001:] And so he's doing his Masters here. They gave him like a scholarship like for a year. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] And he's doing it in like, in a year and a summer. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] And so he's getting that and, uh [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] they said like they got a lot of benefits and that. That's why you want to join. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] But, uh, this guy, I mean you can earn a lot more money so you say, I go why you still there if you can earn a lot more money, once you've get your, your, your Masters. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] They go, well they got a lot of benefits that would go with it so. [speaker002:] Well, a lot of times it's, you know, a lot of times it's not the money [barking] that keeps pe-, that keeps people in. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] They, they like what they're doing. They, you know, they feel good about what they're doing. That type of thing. It's more [popping], [speaker001:] But I mean, I mean, you, the, once you get your Masters, you can be earning between, anywhere between like thirty-seven, forty-five thousand a year. [speaker002:] Uh-huh [barking]. [speaker001:] And [speaker002:] Oh, easily, I'm sure. [speaker001:] and that's not what they're paying. [speaker002:] No. Well, it depends on what rank you are, of course [barking]. [speaker001:] Yeah. Yeah, I know [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] I mean, like I say, if you're, if you're, you know, if you're at an upper level in the rank category, you know, you're probably pulling down close to seventy grand a year. [speaker001:] Yeah. But that's, uh, [speaker002:] Yeah. Those are few and far between though. [speaker001:] Yeah. It's like, [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] it's like, uh, in I B M. In I B M, you can get certain points [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] and, uh, everyone's a manager. But nobody can get one more point to become, you know, like whatever you need to earn so much money. [speaker002:] Yeah. Since I imagine it's fairly competitive. [speaker001:] Yeah. It's like, no I, I mean, I B M is like, there's a joke about I B M which says, you know, it's like, uh, all, all the major companies get into a, a boating race, right? [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] And so, I B M says well we have, we have to have a team, right. [speaker002:] Uh-huh [NOISE]. [speaker001:] And then they come in last and they have this whole team, you know, analyze why they came in last right. Because the person asked for it. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] Saying, he goes, uh, the problem was that there were five people saying row, row, row and one person rowing, right. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] So he goes, have you come up with a -lution, uh, have you come up with a solution? They go, yeah, change the rower [LAUGHTER]. You know, it's like everyone's a, [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] manager but, you know, it's like [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] only use like one person does the work so. [speaker002:] Too many chiefs and not enough Indians. [speaker001:] Yeah. So. [speaker002:] Yeah. I don't know, that can be, that, that can really slow you down. [speaker001:] Yeah. Well, that's the way it works. I mean, that's, that's why they're having problems. I mean, everyone's a manager and, [speaker002:] I didn't realize that. [speaker001:] Yeah. I mean, it's like, it's like the people that actually do the work there [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] are, uh, very few. And then the other people just plan it, you know. It's like, it's like have you, have [speaker002:] push paper around. [speaker001:] have you ever seen the commercial like for Federal Express where the, with, uh, the think tank? [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] You know, like all these people are just standing, sitting around, just going, you know, like what shall we do? Has anybody thought of anything? [speaker002:] [Cough]. [speaker001:] No. And then this guy from Federal, Federal Express comes along. They go what's that? This track which it's going around the world and they can tell you where your package is anywhere, any time. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] And so it's like the same thing with I B M. You know, so they have this think tank. And they got to come up with ideas. But, see, uh, the, the thing is, that I B M is so stabilized that everybody will buy their stuff. [speaker002:] [Popping] Yeah. Oh, yeah. They've got a, they've got basically a, uh, you know, a lock on a lot of the market. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] And a lot of times you figure, you know, with the support that they provide, you know, people generally go with that because they figure that the, you know, you probably won't get fired for getting I B M material. Whereas if you try something different, they'll [speaker001:] And it fails and you're dead. [speaker002:] they'll say yeah, why didn't you buy, why didn't you try something more mainline. [speaker001:] Yeah. Well I B M doesn't fire anybody. Because [speaker002:] [Throat clearing] No. [speaker001:] uh, what they do is they, they put you in a different job. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] Which y-, you actually are like sitting around not doing anything. So you quit. [speaker002:] Uh. [speaker001:] I mean that's their policy. They never fire anybody unless you're caught doing something illegally. [speaker002:] Illegal or something like that, yeah. [speaker001:] Yeah, like if you're stealing something or doing anything like that [swallowing]. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] But they won't let you off. What they'll do is like [sigh] suppose, you know, like you're a manager. So they'll put [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] you into keeping up the paper, you know. It's like how much paper is going in? And then you [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] say that's not my job, so you quit. [speaker002:] So, in other words, that's the way they force [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] people out [cough]. That's why they can say, you know, there's no layoff [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] policy. But it does-, they don't really say that, you know, you're, you're always going to have great career [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] conditions. He-, hey, that's kind of sad. [speaker001:] No, but I mean, it's like, it's like they, they have just like different policy. I don't know. My dad works for them but it's like I B M like never in their commercials, they never put down any other company, you know. It's like [speaker002:] No. [speaker001:] they won't say, [speaker002:] Well, they're the standard right now. Or as far as that goes, you know, people think of computers, they think of I B M a lot of times. And the main, [speaker001:] Yeah. Because see what happens is they have a good backup policy. [speaker002:] [Cough]. [speaker001:] And anybody can fix it. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] And so that's what you're going to go for. [speaker002:] Yeah. Well, you know, that's, that's a, that's a big thing. [speaker001:] And, and, you know, it's like, for example, like Leading Edge. Have you ever heard of Leading Edge? [speaker002:] Yeah. They are out of Korea right. [speaker001:] What? [speaker002:] Leading Edge. Don't they pro-, [speaker001:] They, they made like, uh, small personal computers. [speaker002:] Yeah. Small P C -s. they're out of Korea right? [speaker001:] I don't know. I don't know. But what they do is, what they did, I don't know, is buy all the parts that I B M would throw away. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] And build an I B M P C with all the parts that I B M would throw away. [speaker002:] Oh, yeah [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] [Cough]. [speaker001:] for example, you test a chip. It can't last seven years but it can last five. I B M says let's throw it away. Leading Edge will say we'll buy it from you. [speaker002:] Okay. [speaker001:] And so that's, I mean, they're still around I think. [speaker002:] Yeah. I've seen, well I've seen them around anyway. You know. [speaker001:] [Clicking] [swallowing] So, that's what they do. They buy all, all the things that I B M throws away and they, and that's why they're so compatible. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] Because I mean and by the time you have computer for five years, you're going to throw it away anyway. You know. [speaker002:] Most people do. Or they have to anyway. [speaker001:] Well, I mean, there's like, well in a way you realize, I mean, one t-, one of my teachers got this computer which, you know, it's like, uh, voice, uh, synthesizing stuff. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] And he got that. He said, you know, it's like, uh, [swallowing] I was testing it * LISTEN to this sequence that begins here and ends with A.215 utt 11. I can't tell how much Speaker A is quoting, and how much he'she is directly addressing Speaker B. and it was wonderful. And then when you tried to erase and correct, you know, all the errors in your voice, it takes up all your memory. [speaker002:] Wow. [speaker001:] And I want more, you know. And it's like Jesus Christ, you know, it's like why do you want more. Because it's like one second of recording. I mean you put into Wave [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] and you want to correct the errors into Wave, it takes so much, I mean, it's like, of course it does. I mean, by the times it transforms into Wave by mark off model and you put it in there, and you want to correct those. And then, you know, you're trying to make the, the Wave smooth so you can approximately, of course it's going to take a lot. Imagine, imagine [speaker002:] It's amazing. Yeah. [speaker001:] what it is for us to make mark off models, you know. It's like, [LAUGHTER] Jesus Christ. [speaker002:] Well, when you get, you know, when you get right down to it, the, uh, the more they can do for you, the more, uh, like I say, the more, the more memory they're going to require. [speaker001:] Yeah. Yeah. [speaker002:] Yeah. Both, both in terms in Ram as well as, uh, you know, standard [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] memory or disk mem-, disk base, so. [speaker001:] Well, like they say, like nobody can get enough, you know. It's like once you have something, and it's like [speaker002:] Oh, yeah. You find out more, [speaker001:] I was watching this program on T V yesterday. In nineteen seventy-six [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] NASA came up with Three D graphics. Right. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] And they were showing this like Three D g-, Three D graphics view of like, [speaker002:] Like the deal? [speaker001:] What? No, no, no. [speaker002:] Like a hologram? [speaker001:] This is like, this is like [speaker002:] With just graphics on, on a, [speaker001:] video game stuff. Okay? [speaker002:] Okay [cough]. [speaker001:] But the only thing was, that it was just lines, okay. Like if you [breathing],

[speaker001:] uh Kate what kind of uh where do you like to eat out [speaker002:] well we uh we really like the Mexican food you know here in Texas and uh so we try and go around to different Mexican restaurants trying them out [speaker001:] yes [speaker002:] and so uh Tia's is probably our favorite uh restaurant there and I think they have the one of the best services that uh that we really like it [speaker001:] do you have you tried Mother Mesquite's [speaker002:] no where's that at [speaker001:] that's at Skillman and LBJ there is uh it's where Skillman uh curves into Forest Lane and it's real good Mexican food a another real good one is uh [speaker002:] uh-huh um-hum [speaker001:] Raphael's down on McKinney Avenue [speaker002:] oh [speaker001:] they're both very good um-hum [speaker002:] really oh that uh no we haven't explored uh you know too many places um you know a lot of the big name brand I guess uh chains uh yeah but um oh we've tried places you know down uh by the Collin Creek Mall the uh you know Alvarez and um gosh we tried what was across the street [speaker001:] chains uh-huh [speaker002:] El Paso's El Chico's or something yeah something something like that uh-huh uh-huh yeah [speaker001:] oh El Chico's or El Phoenix one um-hum um-hum um-hum well I like Tia's better than I do El Chico's or El Phoenix [speaker002:] yeah yeah [speaker001:] uh much better uh Mother Mesquite's is one of our favorites but then fajitas are one of my uh I like it better than just about anything and they make very good fajitas there in their own uh homemade flour tortillas that are just absolutely wonderful especially with butter and honey on them [speaker002:] oh yes yes oh uh-huh uh-huh oh I know I tell I tell you what they they are they just um they're excellent uh excellent food I wish I could make them here at home [speaker001:] yes yes so do I well what else do you like [speaker002:] just can't make those flour tortillas but well I love uh I love seafood and I notice they have like the you know The Louisiana Purchase um Razzoo's has opened up down you know off of um um oh close to 635 [speaker001:] uh-huh yes now I haven't eaten there have you eaten there [speaker002:] yes I have eaten there now the only problem I love the food it's a lot of cajun food and a good seafood but uh the service has always been so strange every time I've been in there mostly it's been at lunch time [speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh [speaker002:] and uh but I hear at night though they have uh you know the outdoor um bar and um uh that's it's really uh you know kind of lively so it's it's really good all their blackened grilled stuff [speaker001:] uh-huh oh I we like uh uh for the cajun the spicy we like Atchafalaya's out on Beltline in Addison and it's a good restaurant [speaker002:] uh-huh oh well that sounds great [speaker001:] and fish for one of the best fish restaurants in town is either Vincent's there in Plano or uh I believe it's a Rusty Scupper over on uh uh Dallas Parkway in Addison which is absolutely wonderful [speaker002:] um-hum um-hum huh uh-huh [speaker001:] the service is great they have every kind of fish that that you could imagine you'd want and the uh [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] the atmosphere is wonderful too if you want a really special night out and fish food that's a good place to go [speaker002:] uh-huh oh well I uh I have children and and work and so we uh we tend to eat a lot of fast food stuff uh-huh [speaker001:] fast food oh I can understand that I can remember when our children were small we lived in the Chicago area at the time and we had a lot of McDonald's when they were first coming out I can't look a McDonald in the face now [speaker002:] yeah I know I I know I I'm so sick of McDonald's we we used to eat there we used to eat there all the time and so now we we we branch out at this Wendy's or some other fast food joint [speaker001:] I know yeah yeah well Taco Bueno's good and cheap and cheap very cheap [speaker002:] oh and and cheap too so yeah but but the kids you know they they've got those expensive tastes so uh they like Tia's so they can sit down and all that good kind of stuff [speaker001:] yes yes yes sounds like my grandchildren [speaker002:] yeah I know they they they're just spoiled rotten but uh but no I uh uh we love to eat out of course it's just so much easier and simpler yeah so we uh we usually eat out generally two or three times a week [speaker001:] oh yes well it's just my husband and I and it's either TV dinners at home or we go out to eat and I would much rather go out to eat than TV dinners [speaker002:] yeah yeah oh oh me too me too so I know uh I I know that I uh you know I just work and I'm just tired when I get home and I I just don't feel like cooking [speaker001:] oh no no [speaker002:] and uh you know on the weekends there's always things to do and uh so we like to go out to lunch on Saturdays especially [speaker001:] I like breakfast out [speaker002:] uh-huh uh-huh [speaker001:] I like the IHOP there in Plano [speaker002:] yeah now I we've been there twice and and both times I just oh the food just didn't quite settle with me and I don't know what it was [speaker001:] oh really oh now that's surprising [speaker002:] um-hum um-hum [speaker001:] because normally they're just they're real good and I like because they they're even if they're crowded they're fast service you know I I don't have to wait forever for a table [speaker002:] yes and I love um-hum um-hum yeah [speaker001:] and we also like Owens uh [speaker002:] oh family restaurant uh-huh [speaker001:] country sausage yeah yeah we think it's good [speaker002:] now I haven't been there before I went to one I think in Ohio or or or somewhere up there but I've never been to that one here I know it's just down the street so now have you been to Applebee's [speaker001:] um-hum it's good yes yes and we like Applebee's [speaker002:] yes yes I I really like that too so that was uh [speaker001:] yeah it it's fun I like your up there in Plano that uh Country Steak House [speaker002:] oh yeah I've been I've been there twice uh-huh yeah so [speaker001:] have you tried it we like it because it's fairly reasonable and they have we go for the salad bar [speaker002:] salad bar yeah

[speaker001:] um at what age did your father enter the nursing home [speaker002:] um he was around seventy nine I believe [speaker001:] gosh [speaker002:] and um but it's a big decision to make but um you know people say because one day they're they look like they're doing real well and the next they're just you know awful in diapers and the whole bit [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] and um uh they can be mentally sane one day and just look perfectly normal and then the next day they're just are weeks off of off of it and until you take care of a person personally there were three my mom and I and our kids would help us some and it was just awful to take care of a person that is that way [speaker001:] I tell you I worked in home health care with the elderly um for a while and uh while I was in college and it was a very I mean I enjoyed my job but I I worked a [speaker002:] uh uh very strenuous [speaker001:] yes three days on and four days off is what my schedule was and [speaker002:] um-hum um-hum [speaker001:] and um I'm a compassionate person and uh physically strong but when I got off my three day shift I mean you know you couldn't have kept me there another minute I just had to go [speaker002:] um-hum right yes but I don't know how the the uh people at the nursing homes handle it day in and day out truthfully because of the physical strain uh as well as uh you know emotionally well they they have to build walls emotionally but [speaker001:] it um-hum I I think that's almost necessary I and it's interesting that compassion has got to be a required quality but then they yet they have to have the ability to isolate themselves from too much too much compassion [speaker002:] yeah oh yeah um-hum from the situation um-hum [speaker001:] um [speaker002:] was very difficult for me at times as the as the daughter to you know to a special person [speaker001:] I could imagine oh of course uh uh [speaker002:] but anyway anyway he he um the the requirements for the nursing home were first of all well of course the cleanliness and the care you know what type of care do they need it depends if you you know if you need the bed total bed care [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] or if he could if they could be up and around it all depends on the type of nursing home they have the ones where they live in apartments even and just get their meals and care there you know that way so that that's one of the I mean it just depends on the patients [speaker001:] that's true and I think it would be I would think it would be helpful to the patient to um be housed with uh patients with similar uh had you know similar problems [speaker002:] right right [speaker001:] if you will you know excuse the word just so that they could relate to one another and and wouldn't you know be [speaker002:] um-hum except bless their hearts they're usually so senile they don't really do anything love each other and and all they do is fight with each other that was I found in my father you know all those old people would just fight with you it was a riot [speaker001:] I know I I tell you I was at an uh convalescent home last week um a three hundred and twenty five patient convalescent home [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] and I could not believe how feisty these people were I had never I had never been in a group atmosphere when I was in home health care it was a one-on-one ratio [speaker002:] uh-huh um-hum [speaker001:] and these folks were you know about to go to the mat over TV stations that they had chosen or uh arguing over whether or not their meals were cooked enough and and as if the another patient could have done something about it [speaker002:] right right right [speaker001:] and I find that psychologically very interesting because I I feel from my perspective that it would be a a manifestation of their own frustration [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] and uh I'm going to ignore that click if you heard it uh [speaker002:] oh that's fine yeah [speaker001:] and and that um would would I don't know that that frustration would be preventable in even in the one-on-one ratio I worked in my patients were very frustrated and very upset [speaker002:] uh-huh it is for them bless their hearts it is very frustrating but but by the same token it's it's the one my father was in was wonderful care [speaker001:] oh that I'm sure that was a load off your mind [speaker002:] and uh yeah it is and uh just knowing they're daily taken care of as far as uh physically and uh you know they they kept him clean and they kept him and uh kept up with his medicine and all it's a big thing [speaker001:] um-hum what um do they did you find um that they offered sufficient dietary maintenance that would be something I would [speaker002:] it was pretty good it was nothing to write home about it's typical you know it's typical um [speaker001:] would uh [speaker002:] oh what do you want to say you know um commercial you know and uh it was it was fine they had but they had a recreation director that was pretty good there and she made sure they had their little get togethers and parties most everyday she had something going on for them [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] either ceramics or they did ceramics which I never thought my dad would do but he did a little bit of it

[speaker001:] okay Jim um what are they doing down in your uh neck of the woods for recycling [speaker002:] we have recently the city of Plano has started a a situation it's pretty much volunteer as far as separating oh paper and bottles and you know cans and that sort of thing [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] and uh it's not exactly curbside yet they've got these little igloo like things sitting up in various parts of town where you can take that stuff in if you want to the biggest thing that they've done is uh for forever we had been on the plastic trash bag business where everything was just uh put in uh plastic bags then set out in the alley but uh they came through with these big green uh plastic dumpster kind of things uh where you put everything except lawn trash and then they they we got these uh paper sacks to put uh lawn debris and stuff in supposedly uh you know it can all be mulched at once the paper sack and everything only problem is you can't get anything in the paper sack [speaker001:] oh that's they're they're too small [speaker002:] yeah they're too small on the top and they're they're smaller than most grass catchers and that sort of thing so they just started this uh oh maybe a month or two ago and uh they uh the local folks you know they're just starting to use them now that the grass is starting to you know be cut and everything we're getting a lot of complaints about them but [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] uh you know I I realize the whole the whole recycling trash thing is a is such a problem because the landfill and all that uh [speaker001:] yeah that's true right um [speaker002:] I don't know what are they they're probably doing more than that up there I'm I guess you all started this sort of thing long time before we did [speaker001:] yeah well up Massachusetts I I live in Rhode Island [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] and you know I travel back and forth which isn't too far it's only I only live about uh about eight miles from the plant [speaker002:] oh [speaker001:] so I live right up in the uh in the northeast corner of Rhode Island and and the plant is is in uh is in the like the south uh southwest section of Massachusetts it comes down like kind of a neck so [speaker002:] hum yeah [speaker001:] I don't have for to travel but I live in a rural community and last year we started recycling they made it mandatory in in our town [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] and they gave you uh uh little blue containers that you put all your your uh your bottles and cans and like the plastic milk jugs [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] you put those in there and they recycle those and then you put your newspapers in a separate or either you put them in a a paper bag or or you tie them up with string you put those in a separate bundle and they have a special truck that comes around and they pick them up curbside [speaker002:] um um-hum [speaker001:] and then the rest of it is just you know goes to the landfill I guess or whatever they whatever they incinerate it maybe [speaker002:] yeah we uh we're coming to that here you know in the metroplex is getting big enough that um it'll happen I I grew up in a uh kind of a a rural area of of west Texas and New Mexico where that just wasn't a problem matter of fact till recently we burned trash you know we had the big barrels out in in the alley [speaker001:] oh yeah yeah [speaker002:] and when it's filled up you just put a match to it and burned it well course that's that's almost unheard of anymore [speaker001:] and that's right that's what we used to do too years ago we used to do the same thing [speaker002:] yeah yeah yeah we used to burn leaves and burn grass you know and all that as far as what to uh to do to encourage recycling I guess a lot of states I have noticed on uh on Coke bottles and and whatnot we went I've got some relatives in Iowa and uh there's a big thing up there what is it nickel for every bottle or some such thing and you know people [speaker001:] yep yeah we do the same yeah [speaker002:] people actively go out and and uh seek them you know I guess that's one way of doing it you know is to make it worthwhile [speaker001:] yeah all the states around us Connecticut uh Massachusetts New Hampshire I think Vermont and Maine do it Rhode Island's the only state that doesn't put a nickel deposit on the bottles [speaker002:] um [speaker001:] but every other state does so you don't you don't see any trash along the sides of the roads people that throw bottles away there's other people that come along with plastic bags and they pick them up and and I guess they can make of a you know it's like working a part-time job [speaker002:] um-hum yeah [speaker001:] uh it's all free just takes time and if you're retired and have nothing to do um [speaker002:] well course there's uh people will go after aluminum cans and stuff down here because it's just uh there's not a per can value on them but there is a [speaker001:] oh just on the metal content [speaker002:] just in the metal recycling itself I've [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] I I'm not sure what it's what a can is worth now it's couple cents you know you've got to get quite a few of them to really make it worthwhile but [speaker001:] yeah to make it worth it yeah [speaker002:] it turns out that uh on a a Sunday morning after a Dallas Saturday night there's enough aluminum cans and stuff along the road to make it worthwhile yeah [speaker001:] yeah uh my wife and I both graduated from the University of Rhode Island their uh master gardener program [speaker002:] um-hum um-hum [speaker001:] I guess every state has has uh uh a land grant college uh would used to be Brown University now it's uh University of Rhode Island [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] and what we learned down there is that uh fifty percent when you when you mow your lawn fifty percent of all the nutrients are in that top section of the grass and most people kind of rake it up or they catch it in the grass catcher and they throw it away [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] if you if you mow properly and just let it lay in there you refertilize your own soil besides building up a base [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] so that's what we've been doing that for the last couple of years and you don't have to worry about uh fertilizing which causes a lot of thatch and all that kind of stuff so there's more and more people too are aware of that up here [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] and they're not going out for chemicals they're not going out for a lot of fertilizers and stuff so they're letting it you know uh [speaker002:] our soil situation down here in this particular area we're in a real hard black gooey gummy awful black clay situation [speaker001:] oh so [speaker002:] and uh [speaker001:] summertimes it cracks when it heats when it gets [speaker002:] oh yeah you could lose a small dog in the cracks sometimes [speaker001:] oh yeah [speaker002:] uh so I [speaker001:] I was watching uh I was watching the news this morning uh national news and they were talking about uh I guess they got a a recycling dump for tires that caught on fire [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] but they were saying that uh California they recycle their their all the tires and make like a a some kind of a rubberized compound and they incorporate that with uh with uh tar and they use it on their roads and they say the roads last a lot longer [speaker002:] um-hum yeah there was a thing in the local news here yesterday there's a little town down south of Fort Worth called Mansfield and there's some tire recycling outfit wants a permit down there they say out of every tire you can get a gallon what amounts to a ga llon of diesel fuel and like you say several pounds of this uh carbon black and uh material for for making roads and anymore there's a couple pounds of stainless steel in most of the uh the tires yeah because the steel belted tires and uh [speaker001:] oh for the steel belted that's right I didn't think about yeah [speaker002:] it's a totally gas fired operation they say there's no exhaust whatsoever you know most people think of tire yeah tho se burning tire uh see there was what was it Massachusetts I remember here a couple of years ago reading about one that had been on fire for long period of time you know it just smolders and the black smoke pours out of it [speaker001:] yeah yeah there could be the one up here some place I'm not really sure um [speaker002:] yeah over in Fort Worth they had one catch fire here a couple of years ago and they had an awful time putting it out but our big problem down here course is uh tires laying around down on the ground and stuff uh collect water and then of course that becomes mosquito breeding area and uh [speaker001:] yeah oh that's right too yeah I didn't think of yeah [speaker002:] that can be a real [speaker001:] yeah Connecticut was uh is in the process of building a a plant to burn tires to generate electricity [speaker002:] um yeah [speaker001:] so I guess that's kind of of a a recycling process [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] the uh all the all the communities in Rhode Island eventually are going to go on this like the recycling that we have now it depends on on each individual municipality uh we went on it quite early because of the town fathers said yeah you know we think it's a good idea but the state I think by nineteen ninety three every every town in the state has to go on this recycling program so it's like a forced [speaker002:] um-hum yeah [speaker001:] um which is good I think [speaker002:] yeah what happens to us anyways as you can imagine in Texas you've got urban areas that are probably as compact or as you know densely populated as just about any place in the country but then [speaker001:] yeah well you guys got [speaker002:] then you run into uh areas you know they've we've got a statistic down here that they like to use you know you can take the population of the world and pack it in the state of Texas about the density of Houston and then you'd have the rest of the world to grow crops in because there wouldn't be any people in it [speaker001:] yeah Houston's probably as big as this whole state of Rhode Island [speaker002:] uh yeah uh the panhandle the the there's well there's several counties in west Texas and New Mexico too for that matter that are bigger than Rhode Island but uh [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] we had a our our government rep I'm in DSEG here

[speaker002:] okay yeah the topic is uh car repairs and the last one I've had done it was a fluke the last one I had done [speaker001:] right uh-huh what happened [speaker002:] well I was driving down six thirty five at the um coming from North Dallas [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] and I was uh going um almost hitting the um entry where all the the merges go from six thirty five seventy five and Coit and uh all of a sudden I get this liquid all over my hood and my windshield [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] and I had smelled it before I thought and I thought that it was coming from another vehicle and then when I saw it go all over my car I thought oh oh something came through my radiator and just something's wrong inside my car so I I was waiting for my car to collapse you know I go I was going about sixty five miles an hour and it kept going and I thought well what is going on and so I made it home and I looked at my car and it was a mess so I immediately the next morning I took it to my dealer and I I left it just how I drove it in the the night before and he says well it looks like your uh antifreeze uh something happened to your antifreeze [speaker001:] huh [speaker002:] and they checked everything in that car and it wasn't from my car it was from some other car some other car did that to me well I'm glad but it was a very panicky situation [speaker001:] some other car had too well isn't that something well oh sure right [speaker002:] but no I do not do any of my own repairs the only thing I do to my car is put gas in it and wash it [speaker001:] well I do I do some of my own repairs yes I do I I have learned to do this [speaker002:] oh you do well good for you that's great [speaker001:] that uh my husband drives uh sports cars races he races them as a hobby [speaker002:] oh I see oh well he probably showed you all the tricks of the trade that's great [speaker001:] yes and he said you need to know how to do all this stuff so I do change my own oil um [speaker002:] sure [speaker001:] most in fact I have changed out a whole engine in uh one of sons' trucks [speaker002:] you did well bless your heart [speaker001:] yes I took the whole thing out and I fixed it but I think it's really important to know these things if you can [speaker002:] well I think that's wonderful I mean I think that's great [speaker001:] but uh but now if I could talk him into doing this I'll let him do it I've told him I've learned how but [speaker002:] well gee you should uh you know you should get some money for your talents and start branching out [speaker001:] no I don't think I wanna work on too many people's cars that's hard work I think they earn their money I do [speaker002:] it is oh well you know uh loosening those nuts and bolts would be a problem for me [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] and I know they have some really sophisticated equipment today where they do it electronically and all that but that takes money to buy those kind of tools too [speaker001:] yes it does now I I don't think I will be able to work on you know too many cars much longer because they are sophisticated and I just can't fool with these computers and things that they have in it that [speaker002:] um-hum um-hum right yeah no I wouldn't want my I wouldn't want anybody to touch my car without having all the the yeah the uh computer and all and everything [speaker001:] the proper tools right that's but it uh I had just gotten a new car this year and I I take it back to the dealer I take this one to the dealer [speaker002:] because you have that uh as a as a gift to you don't you that they do it for you for gratis [speaker001:] yes right uh-huh at least this first year and uh [speaker002:] uh-huh right well I have a woman's agreement on mine and they they did it for three years [speaker001:] oh well that's nice [speaker002:] yeah yeah that really was nice so I uh appreciated that uh a present that they gave me [speaker001:] uh-huh well that that is really good but I can't think of any offhand um problems we have really had lately you know that we've had to fix uh the one thing we have problem with is our electricals anything that goes electrical wrong with the cars we don't even try to fool with those ourselves [speaker002:] oh um-hum right [speaker001:] and uh those to me they're very difficult to locate the problem if you [speaker002:] well don't they have if you that they hook it up to the computer and the computer does the analysis and tells you what's wrong with with different areas yeah yeah [speaker001:] well right they can do that with the new ones uh-huh with these newer cars you can do that and uh [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] but other than that the the oil changes and the gases water and antifreeze I do keep that in there [speaker002:] well I I have put windshield washer solvent in the container but and [speaker001:] yeah have you ever changed a windshield wiper [speaker002:] no I have not this one hasn't needed any thus thus far [speaker001:] yeah yeah [speaker002:] um it's been a super car it's uh let's see it's uh three years old [speaker001:] oh well good what kind is it [speaker002:] it's it's a Plymouth Acclaim [speaker001:] uh-huh well good [speaker002:] I really like it it's a been a very dependable um no maintenance I have not had

[speaker001:] I know uh product quality first of all I have had to return products uh generally those products that I bought mail order recently [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] well I think that you know brand name products that we've become familiar with have in most cases you know gotten better I think that we have a problem in this country with consumer protection laws and the lack thereof [speaker002:] yeah I agree with you yeah [speaker001:] for for a lot of things there's some real junky mail order places out there um that we've ordered from in the past and ended up with not what we expected and having an absolute nightmare especially in dealing with a mail order in trying to return a product and get satisfaction I it it seems like every time I turn around I have to write one of my world famous complaint letters to try and resolve these situations with these kinds of mail order places [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] uh but you know generally speaking I think products in most cases have gotten better than they were in the in the past [speaker002:] yeah yeah I agree with you there yeah um usually I think it's it's not even the manufacturer so much as it's where you yes well like like where with you buy your stuff I guess a lot of your stuff mail order but if you buy it like if you go to like a uh a retail place like I don't know uh uh uh Silo or one of these you know they're usually the ones that are giving you the you know they give you a hard time [speaker001:] yeah oh yeah I'm not happy at all with Silo I we have every time you look around and there there's a price that's better somewhere else I there's a lot of rip-offs out there uh even in parts of the retail uh community as far as uh you know they there seems to be this real lack of ability in dealing well with customer service [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] with and product support for a lot of these products I remembered when I you know certain product names where you'd get the product and immediately there's a problem with it and it needs to be upgraded and suddenly it's your responsibility to pay all of this money to have it done when it was their fault to begin with [speaker002:] right yeah yeah [speaker001:] that that really irks me and I you know I'm not use to that and with technology you know I've had some answering machines here die very quickly yet other brand names you know Panasonic and that that little that I can drop on the floor and they still work [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] it you you really these days because we don't everything's been deregulated we don't seem to care as much about consumer protection if you aren't ultrawise uh in shopping and looking for products you're in real trouble [speaker002:] uh yeah I agree with you [speaker001:] I mean you have to have your consumer reports you got to have um you know David Horowitz and and all these things it's just to buy something I mean the the amount of money you have to spend on some of this high technology [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] today and then you have these brand names that attempt to mimic the the these brand names that we know [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] and then you're you're if you're not informed as a consumer you end up with absolute junk [speaker002:] yeah it's it's true that's happened to me I'm I mean I've gone uh when when Walkman's first came out uh I I think I had I bought two when they first came out I just a radio one and then I had a radio and a cassette one and or just the cassette one [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] and uh the one was Panasonic and the other one was like not even a brand name but those both lasted me for like three years and then I mean then within the past year and a half two years I've probably gone through about six of them [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] you know and and I really don't think I'm abusive or any I'm not you know [speaker001:] well yeah they do they wear out I we've just had an RCA television that we bought two years ago go up and just decide I'm not working anymore and you know before you buy TV it's like ten fifteen years [speaker002:] they're just uh-huh yeah yeah [speaker001:] but now I mean two years we're having trouble excuse me [speaker002:] yeah yeah I mean that's really um it's it's it's even with cars now too I mean it it in every area in every any kind of product [speaker001:] oh yeah I mean we have a Buick uh eighty five Park Avenue that you know once you past the three year point everything just started falling apart [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] and and by the time we're done I mean we could've bought a whole new car for the amount of money [speaker002:] yeah it's yeah it's true sad but it's yeah you know and uh how about these places where you go like out in Silo I think it's Silo no uh there is a store uh The Appliance Store I don't I don't think I think their local is just uh western Pennsylvania but uh whenever you go there they try to sell you the insurance you know [speaker001:] oh yes [speaker002:] you know where you want to extend your warranty of course I'm I know other places do this too you know [speaker001:] oh yeah the the worst value is because if something goes wrong it's generally in the first thirty or sixty days that you own it [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] oh they do that on VCR and it's high pressure I mean it's like well you know you must be stupid if you're not going to buy this why [speaker002:] right yeah yeah they really try to you know tack on another fifty sixty dollars [speaker001:] we have

[speaker001:] okay uh before a couple of years ago I had a a very narrow view of of nursing homes and it was uh more like a funeral home I always joked around about it being a funeral home and not really a nursing home and uh then I had to do some volunteer work here in Tyler Texas and I went to one and it just had a very good activities director everyone was cheerful and now I don't have such a bad view of nursing homes anymore but I I certainly wouldn't want to send my parent unless it was an absolute last resort resort um I have a sister that is in nursing school and she's real interested in geriatrics [speaker002:] well that sounds good [speaker001:] yeah so uh she she's real interested in uh what Ann Richards has been doing she's Ann Richards is really cracking down on uh the nursing homes and I don't know you wouldn't know anything about a Texas governor [speaker002:] I've heard the name and that's about all it goes [speaker001:] okay Ann Richards is our governor in Texas and she's really cracking down on restrictions and what goes on in nursing homes and uh my sister's real interested in that and and getting into the to that side of nursing [speaker002:] yeah that's one problem with the the nursing home environment it the elderly even out of the nursing home are very open to abuse [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] um you know they don't always have their full wits about them they're not completely up on what should be going on or what's not going on [speaker001:] um-hum um-hum [speaker002:] and it can be pretty sad I've got a had a grandmother who had a stroke and she was in a nursing home for four or five years before she died [speaker001:] oh [speaker002:] and you know it's the type of thing that she was living down in Florida my families was up in Maryland [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] and the other part of her family was up in uh New York state [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] and you know it was very difficult for either of them or my grandfather to take care of her since she was um you know could not do very much for herself after the stroke [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] and you know the nursing home was the you know best facility to put her in [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] you know besides moving her up which is not a practical solution since both my parents work and both my uh aunts and uncle work [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] which means it's you know very difficult for someone you essentially need to have someone taking care of the person full time [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] and you know there's also a lot of medical problems that can't always be completely handled in home [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] which makes it you know it's a necessary evil I think [speaker001:] um-hum it sure is and some of the really nice ones that really take care of their people are so expensive because because they can afford to hire the people that are really going to care for the older [speaker002:] yeah yeah and you know even there you have to watch out for you know you get one person who's a little bit dishonest working in there and you know the elderly sometimes have a lot of jewelry [speaker001:] oh yeah [speaker002:] and other stuff that just very easily tends to disappear in the nursing homes [speaker001:] right my grandfather passed away several years ago I was much younger but um he was in the nursing home the last several years of his life and someone visited him everyday my grandmother did but uh if she couldn't someone visited him every day it was in a very small town nursing home [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] and uh people didn't get paid much there at all they didn't care about what went on [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] they would let a let a patient get a lot of bed sores [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] and uh the the people living in the nursing home would have all kinds of needs that wouldn't get met because they were just old people and then the nurses and doctors really didn't put any forth forth any loving care for them [speaker002:] either that or they're just so understaffed that they uh can't afford to put in the uh care that they need [speaker001:] right right [speaker002:] because it's you know an elderly person can you know it's like a newborn baby you need to have twenty four hour care [speaker001:] um-hum right [speaker002:] uh answering all the needs because they can't do much for themselves at certain points [speaker001:] right and the nurses get so worn down [speaker002:] uh-huh and you know there's a lot of number of the elderly are very you know complaining because they remember the way that things used to be [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] and remember being able to do things for themselves which you know they no longer can [speaker001:] oh sure and they feel [speaker002:] and it very very hard for them to accept that [speaker001:] they feel pretty helpless [speaker002:] we just uh moved my grandfather into not a nursing home but you know a transitional type facility [speaker001:] is it uh like a retirement center [speaker002:] more of a retirement home he's got his own efficiency apartment and they provide one meal a day [speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh [speaker002:] and you know the rest of the housekeeping and other meals a day are up to him but they do have you know group activities going on [speaker001:] uh-huh how's he handling that [speaker002:] uh he'd much rather be living alone in his apartment down in Florida [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] uh you know to move into that facility we moved him from Florida up to Maryland and [speaker001:] oh [speaker002:] it's it's a bit of a shock to the system weatherwise if nothing else [speaker001:] oh sure there wasn't anything like that that you could do in Florida [speaker002:] well there was stuff like that in Florida but

[speaker001:] well why don't you tell me about your lawn and gardening [speaker002:] oh let's see it hurts um I don't know I do quite a bit of it [speaker001:] do you do you have a large lawn [speaker002:] um pretty fairly fairly fair amount yeah yeah we switch plants here and there do you like to garden [speaker001:] uh-huh well I like the yard to look nice but I can't say I really enjoy it [speaker002:] oh really [speaker001:] yeah no I've I've got other things that I like to do and that's that's not my favorite I don't know sweating out there sweating in the sun you know and pulling weeds and those stuff [speaker002:] oh no no I don't like that no [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] no not that part just the pretty part [speaker001:] yeah and I won't mow the lawn either and you know watering the lawn is a pain in the butt because we don't have a an electric system so [speaker002:] yeah right right [speaker001:] or sprinkler system I should say so [speaker002:] yeah I like to get out in the morning [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] and that's it [speaker001:] well what do you like to do when you garden [speaker002:] oh mostly I like to keep a little garden [speaker001:] oh so you actually grow vegetables [speaker002:] right right right just like um salad salad vegetables that kind of thing [speaker001:] well that's nice uh-huh [speaker002:] and um that's about it just you know and shrubbery and everything and to keep the weeds down and stuff put mulch around it so you don't have to weed them [speaker001:] yeah yeah you know I I find that gardening for me is just uh it it's expensive [speaker002:] it really is [speaker001:] you know you get into buying as many plants that you need to make it look good and you know you can't just buy two or three you've got to buy a dozen for one small area [speaker002:] right right right [speaker001:] you know so [speaker002:] so it doesn't look it looks skimpy if you don't [speaker001:] exactly and I know we've got this spring we've got to push pull a bunch of stumps out because they're they kicked the bucket so [speaker002:] oh heaven [speaker001:] well that means we'll just have to put something else and so but you know we haven't we hadn't had any freeze damage this year of course because it hasn't been that cold I guess it's been about the same with you all [speaker002:] really right right I think it's only frozen um we've had a freeze twice [speaker001:] yeah and I [speaker002:] and it wasn't very bad [speaker001:] and the rain is unbelievable I mean it's just [speaker002:] right right did you get any snow [speaker001:] we got a few a few flakes last week [speaker002:] oh you're kidding really [speaker001:] just enough to make it look you know I mean it didn't even of course settle you know on the ground but it looked pretty while it was coming down [speaker002:] right well that's nice [speaker001:] yeah what about you [speaker002:] no none none not none whatsoever so some of the plants are still kind of growing along [speaker001:] yeah uh-huh [speaker002:] so that makes it nice [speaker001:] that's true that's true ours are well they're they're kind of dormant they're pretty mellow right now [speaker002:] yeah but soon it'll be time to go out and put some bulbs I get enthusiastic in the spring and then it kind of dies down [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] a little while later when you have to take care of everything [speaker001:] in fact I just had a garden company come by and give me a well you know one of those places that fertilizes your lawn give me an estimate because I just don't want to go out and buy all the chemicals and stuff because because I don't know what you need for this weed versus this weed versus this weed [speaker002:] right right right [speaker001:] so I just let them treat all my weeds and I won't have to deal with you know buying this stuff and having it sit in the garage [speaker002:] wow that's not bad [speaker001:] well yeah it's better for us because we don't we have a pretty small lawn [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] so and and you know the cost I think per time is a little less than thirty bucks so [speaker002:] do they get get rid of the ants and stuff like that [speaker001:] I don't think they do the ants I think they're just dealing with the weeds [speaker002:] oh oh not bad not bad at all though [speaker001:] no because we've got a real problem they're overtaking everything so but I mean we got some good grass but it's getting you know um [speaker002:] to the point where the weeds are taking over the grass [speaker001:] exactly it's getting choked out [speaker002:] oh my [speaker001:] well I think we covered it don't you do you know anything else you want to talk about about gardening [speaker002:] oh let's see I still have onions growing in the garden [speaker001:] you you still have onions growing [speaker002:] well they'll in Texas they'll go all year around [speaker001:] oh [speaker002:] and then if you want green onions you just go out there and grab some [speaker001:] so so do you go uh give them away that you have so many [speaker002:] no [speaker001:] you use them pretty much yourself [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] well that's good [speaker002:] yeah if you put them in all times of the year you can go out and take them you know for a green onion here and there and then if you have some left over they'll go to a a regular bulb onion and then you can have that the next um [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] the next time next next year yeah [speaker001:] so the green onions the green onions grow into the the bigger onions [speaker002:] yeah huh yeah they will if you let them alone and then you can put them anywhere sometimes I'll put mix them in with plants [speaker001:] wow uh-huh [speaker002:] just have a bunch of green here and there [speaker001:] well you sound like somebody that needs to come to my house and do a little work but [speaker002:] and then oh let's see and then um I put rye grass or my husband did put rye grass out this winter to make it look green [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] um right you put it around September November to make it look green [speaker001:] uh-huh and that stuff fades away though right [speaker002:] right when it starts getting hot um [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] it'll start dying down and your regular grass will come back in [speaker001:] uh-huh so it doesn't cover I mean it it it doesn't compete with the regular grass or anything [speaker002:] in the no no no no huh-uh it has real shallow roots everything but you got to get out and mow it it looks nice for a while and then it goes away and it kind of fertilizes the grass that's there all the time [speaker001:] uh-huh

[speaker001:] Basically, uh, my husband and myself use the credit cards in regards to major purchases. We really don't get into small little purchases. If we're going to purchase something quite large we might put it on a credit card, but, other than that it's not something that we use a lot of. Uh, we may have only two or three versus, uh, I know a lot of people have up to a half a dozen or, uh, up to a dozen credit cards, but, uh, ours are just major credit cards that we have and, uh, use, uh, use only when [NOISE], when we feel it's necessary to make a big purchase. [speaker002:] Yeah, is that like Visa and [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] and Mastercard. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] Do you have department store credit cards too, or, [speaker001:] Uh, yeah, one Sears. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] Sears is pretty major with us simply because we do, uh, [speaker002:] Appliances. [speaker001:] Appliances and things like that and they're real good with their appliance and stuff like that so, [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] But, uh, we try to avoid them with a passion because of the percent of interest rate. If you've got the cash to pay for something, it's better to do it that way than versus credit cards, unless it's a small enough sum that you can do it within a two, three month period, but [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] if it's, uh, any large purchases, uh, you've got to kind of think about, uh, how much you're going to put down as far as, uh, payments on it so that you're not getting eighteen percent or [speaker002:] Right [throat clearing]. [speaker001:] twenty percent interest taken off, so, [speaker002:] My, my husband and I do basically the same thing, but we, we end up sneaking a few in there that surprise us. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] We still pay it off every month [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] if it kills us [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Yeah, yeah. [speaker002:] But, we do it mainly for, you know, the cash flow, what is that, oh, float. That's the word, float. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. Sure, sure. [speaker002:] And, I often will keep tra-, track of what I've charged and sometimes deduct it from my checkbook [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] already. [speaker001:] Sure, so you know. [speaker002:] And sometimes just, and keep a list and make sure I [baby crying] [speaker001:] Sure. [speaker002:] I don't go over a certain [LAUGHTER] limit. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] Especially around birthdays, you know. [speaker001:] Exactly. [speaker002:] Oh. [speaker001:] Exactly [NOISE]. [speaker002:] If we go out to a restaurant, oh, just to float it, or, I don't know. [speaker001:] Or, if it's a business transaction [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] a lot of times that's important, too [speaker002:] Yes, my husband has a, a, [speaker001:] to keep a better receipt of it. So, yeah. [speaker002:] Or anytime like a plane ticket, or, you know [throat clearing], [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] Even if we have the, I'm sure we'd have the cash before we got it, but [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] the float [speaker001:] Sure. [speaker002:] for more than a hundred dollars seems real nice for that. [speaker001:] Oh, sure. For the month or whatever. [speaker002:] That thirty [baby crying] days [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] or whatever. [speaker001:] Exactly. So, [speaker002:] We have a new one from A T AND T and we have, you know, haven't used that one too much [baby crying]. [speaker001:] Uh-huh, yeah. [speaker002:] Be interesting, that's nice, [baby crying] because you can use it for a calling card also. [speaker001:] Exactly, sure. [speaker002:] It's a Mastercard, too, so [baby crying]. [speaker001:] Sure, yeah. [speaker002:] It's kind of fun, uh, [baby crying] but you get a lot of junk mail about them. [speaker001:] Oh, yeah and you always get these preapproved, uh, credit card things coming through, uh, your credit is great, so let's send you another credit card or [speaker002:] Yeah, you're such a [speaker001:] it's preapproved for, [speaker002:] a wonderful person [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] That's, that's to entice you to get more credit cards. [speaker002:] We'll give you five thousand dollars [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] up front [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] And so, you know, we always laugh about that because it's quite a bit [baby crying]. I mean, you know, you always constantly getting those preapproved stuff, so. [speaker002:] Right. Do you have, uh, an annual fee on yours or [baby crying] do you get yours through a bank or, [speaker001:] Uh, ours is through a bank, yeah. *should they "yeah" be a seperate slash unit? [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] We had it a long time ago through a bank and it just a [baby crying] but, [speaker002:] Yeah. I, I can't see paying an annual fee for it. I mean I almost [baby crying], [speaker001:] Oh, you're already paying them, uh, if you're, if you don't pay it off within that month, interest, anyway, so, yeah, that's exactly it so, [speaker002:] [Baby crying] Yeah. [speaker001:] Okay. [speaker002:] Well, it sounds like I'm being paged otherwise. [speaker001:] Okay. [speaker002:] So [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] All right, thanks a lot. [speaker002:] Good talking to you. [speaker001:] Bye now.

[speaker001:] Okay Brian. [speaker002:] Hi, how you doing Kevin? [speaker001:] Fine, thanks [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Good, good, glad to [NOISE] hear that. I understand, [speaker001:] Are you a total banner? [speaker002:] Total banner? [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] No, I, I believe that, uh, the American public and I, as an individual and private citizen have a right to, to bear arms and to have a gun as long as I, uh, am responsible with it and protect the safety and welfare of my kids and, and so that they're not playing with it and so that they can't hurt themselves or anyone else playing with it. I think that education with a gun is, is critical and important. Uh, however, I do believe that, uh, guns ought to be maintained and, and controlled that you can't go out and just buy one off the corner and do whatever you want with it because people that are angry or have concerns or want to seek vengeance right away have easy access to guns and in the heat of the moment, they can go and do some damage that can hurt themselves and other people, so on a scale of one to ten, I, I think I would rate myself as a, in the six or seven or eight. [speaker001:] Okay. [speaker002:] But, I think that there ought to be some control, but I still think that, uh, individuals have a right. How do you feel about it? [speaker001:] Well, so, let me make sure, so you think that, uh, maybe a five day waiting period for handguns or that stuff would be legitimate? [speaker002:] Well, I don't know if a five day waiting period would be legitimate. Uh, that, uh, that might cool down some tempers. I think a, a one day would be sufficient. The reason I say that is there is an awful lot of people who go to gun shows and if you see an awful lot of exhibits and things and if you would like to purchase a gun, if that five day waiting period were in effect, you wouldn't be able to purchase one at that gun show. [speaker001:] Uh, you just, you would be able to buy it, but they'd just have to mail it to you, I suppose, huh. [speaker002:] Well, I don't think you can mail thing, guns through the mail. I don't know. [speaker001:] Oh. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Okay. [speaker002:] I think that's a, against the law ever since Kennedy was assassinated [static]. [speaker001:] Oh, yeah? [speaker002:] So, how do you feel about guns? [speaker001:] Let's see, I think that gun control has come up because there has been some crazies that killed people with guns and I think that's the problem that we need to address is why these people want to kill other people rather than the instrument they particularly used in the assault [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] whether, you know, [speaker002:] Well, do you think that there will continue to always be crazies? [speaker001:] Sure. [speaker002:] Then, uh, how do you propose that we prohibit those types of individuals from gaining access to guns? [speaker001:] Well, we have some laws on the books that, uh, don't allow convicted felons to purchase guns, if I understand correctly. And, uh, I would agree, a, a short waiting period would be appropriate to, uh, take care of the heat of the moment type things, but [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] uh, I think banning semiautomatic twenty-two rifles is a, a bit on the extreme side. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] And a total ban on guns would just leave guns in the hands of criminals who don't care what the rules are anyway. [speaker002:] Okay. Do you, uh, do you feel there is a need in the world today to have a, an automatic handgun? [speaker001:] The only purpose for handguns is to shoot people, in my opinion. O-, or you could do it just for fun, you know, kind of like a game, but, uh, [speaker002:] Well, I think that the, the police, uh, or law enforcement have a need because of the tight quarters they might find themselves, but, the public, I don't know. [speaker001:] I think that I should have a right to own a handgun. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] Not a automatic, semiautomatic. [speaker002:] Yes, not an Uzi [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] No, [LAUGHTER] no. Uh, but I think a person needs a way of defending themselves. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] You saw Indiana Jones, the guy came after him with that big knife. [speaker002:] Yes. [speaker001:] And just, he took care of it, [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] just one shot. [speaker002:] Yes, that's true, [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] and he, uh, saved himself in the, in the, in the process also. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] That's right. So how is work going? [speaker002:] Very fine, very, [speaker001:] They don't let you take guns to work, do they? [speaker002:] No, they, [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] That's, uh, that's prohibited where we work. Although down here in Texas, uh [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] you do have a right to, to wear and carry arms with you at all times. That's still [speaker001:] Can they be, [speaker002:] that's still, you can still do that down here. [speaker001:] Is it concealed, or does it have to, [speaker002:] Oh, you can't, no, it should not [speaker001:] Has to be on the hip? [speaker002:] be concealed. It has to be on the hip [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Has to be in sight so that, uh, you know, that you're not, uh, a menace or [speaker001:] Can a s-, [speaker002:] a problem to individuals. How about where you live there in Utah?

[speaker001:] what what's your uh you are you into the Cowboys or what [speaker002:] uh so oh God no uh no I I'm not I haven't been I grew up in Dallas but I'm still not a Cowboys' man I like Philadelphia Eagles [speaker001:] oh yeah [speaker002:] yeah that's my favorite team so uh now Randall's coming back next season I hope they'll be do a little bit better they didn't do too bad last season but I hope they can do better how about yourself [speaker001:] that's all right yeah well I don't know I kind of go back and forth uh depending on whose really hot and whose not I guess I'm kind of a fair weather fan in a lot of respects but uh [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] I guess if I have uh my druthers I'd probably go for the Seattle Seahawks I kind of like them [speaker002:] oh yeah that's another one of my favorites they're not they're not my favorite totally but I do like them I like [speaker001:] yeah they're kind of [speaker002:] yeah Seahawks are good they now that Steve Largent's gone I kind of lose a little bit for them but you know he [speaker001:] you yeah to be honest with you I I probably watch uh college a little bit more than I do pro yeah I kind of like college actually quite a bit [speaker002:] really huh yeah that's kind of that's kind of strange it's too much running for me in in college football I like I like the pros they do you know it's more high tech more you know players players are apt to act a little bit different when they when their jobs and their when it's a job and not just [speaker001:] is it [speaker002:] you know when you getting paid millions to do it you actually I think they take it to another level but I can see it's more you know [speaker001:] yeah yeah that could be yeah [speaker002:] grunted out run the ball type college football it's a little bit different but [speaker001:] yeah you probably wouldn't like my favorite team in college then [speaker002:] who whose that Notre Dame [speaker001:] no I root for Nebraska quite a bit [speaker002:] Nebraska Nebraska yeah there's a running team yeah that's that that's boring for me I I'll take the passing teams any day but [speaker001:] yeah yeah well I can see I can see definitely how you could get into that I to be honest with you I find that that too much running gets pretty boring as well and [speaker002:] yeah it just it's four yards three yards eight yards tackle that's it you know it gets kind of monotonous after awhile I I prefer forty I've asked forty yard flea flicker every now and then just just to juice it up a little bit and [speaker001:] right sure well I think they're starting to realize that a lot of the like the big eight teams that used to run so much I think they're starting to realize that they just can't compete anymore [speaker002:] but yeah it's high dollar you know it's all it's all money now even college is all can we get on TV so [speaker001:] right yeah yeah so uh what's a this World League is coming in uh that's getting ready to start up right have you followed that very much or [speaker002:] that's that right yeah uh not really I I don't think anything will ever take over the NFL I think [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] it's basically you know it's it's an institution it's like if we try to start something to take over major league baseball it's just I just you know I mean it it it can be [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] it can take over part of it but it's never gonna be the next [speaker001:] right it can take over a small market share but nothing really [speaker002:] yeah it's yeah it's gonna take a little bit some people are gonna watch it but it's not gonna be wide spread Super Bowl and every Sunday mourning afternoon or anything you know it's just it's never gonna reach that that standard but [speaker001:] right yeah I think I agree with you it's it's kind of interesting to see uh to see their claim of you know like world football but when in reality it's really Americans playing somewhere else you know [speaker002:] yeah yeah it's kind of kind of strange huh I guess we're the only ones who take it that far everybody else still nuts over soccer but [speaker001:] yeah actually uh I kind of like soccer I've never really played it but uh I like the idea it's it's an interesting game to watch that and rugby I like to watch rugby every now [speaker002:] yeah yeah or Australian rules football that's some [speaker001:] yeah whatever you wanna call it there [speaker002:] yeah that's some brutal stuff there that's that's worse than football as far as violence I think golly those guys kill each other out there rugby something else [speaker001:] yeah yeah there's an element of there's definitely an element of stupidity in there somewhere [speaker002:] yeah yeah that's just wild that's why it's a good big college thing [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] rugby's definitely big in college because it's something a bunch of fraternity guys can get together and get a good beer buzz going and do [speaker001:] right exactly yeah that [speaker002:] so yeah I could see the feel for that but it's it's pretty it's fun to play I'll give it that it is fun to play if you don't value your body very much but you know uh I don't think rugby will ever be professional but [speaker001:] yeah you've played it then no I doubt it you know not least not in this country anyway [speaker002:] it's it's it's no you can't stay healthy and do that that's a rough game [speaker001:] yeah it is [speaker002:] but uh I don't know I I don't know how my Eagles are gonna do this year so you the the Seahawks are an up and down kind of team yeah I my my it's it's kind of odd my roommate that I live with here he's uh he's [speaker001:] they really are yeah [speaker002:] lived in Pennock Minnesota you know where that is it's it's it's a small town it's about two hours it's in like central Minnesota it's a couple of hours uh west of Minneapolis [speaker001:] uh no I don't to tell you the truth I'm okay to tell you the truth I'm not even really from here [speaker002:] but uh you just live there now [speaker001:] yeah I'm I'm up here for a year on an internship but I I actually live in Florida [speaker002:] uh-huh well he's live in Florida like the Seahawks [speaker001:] yeah well you know I [speaker002:] hey I've I've I've I've only been to Philadelphia twice and I you know I I still like [speaker001:] I mean who who who the heck is gonna root for Tampa Bay right [speaker002:] really really [speaker001:] I mean I guess I could go for Miami but I don't know I'm from I root for Nebraska so I'm I don't have a real love for Miami anyway but I don't know I like I said I I get into pretty much any game that's out [speaker002:] yeah but I don't

[speaker001:] hey um generally I am majority majority majority of the news that I get is from uh AM radio in the mornings but going to and from work I we have like uh a a WCBS station which which just kind of fires through all the top topics [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] how do you uh how do you generally find out what's going on in the world [speaker002:] oh I don't know oh I listen in the car but my commute is only only a mile so uh but uh you know I have the uh radio wake me up in the morning so I get I get some headlines there [speaker001:] oh okay [speaker002:] I read the usenet news [speaker001:] okay [speaker002:] uh really I'm not getting the good quality news that I want and I I bought a TV last year but but I don't really watch it [speaker001:] you're behind yeah [speaker002:] oh and I don't I don't believe I don't get any in depth stuff [speaker001:] I used to have uh I used to have cable and uh the thing that I really miss um since uh since I lost cable and there's that not that much on there that I miss but uh Headline News was always good because I could get a quick roundup of whatever the top topics were in in like a half hour span and in Around the World in Thirty Minutes I think was their big thing and the other thing I used to I uh I miss is CNN um CNN used to go a little bit more in depth um you would get uh like Crossfire you would get you know different different perspectives from usually from like the left and the right liberal and conservative arguing the various uh [speaker002:] oh Crossfire yeah I saw that a couple of times [speaker001:] I think Patrick Buchanan who's now running for president used to be the uh conservative side for that [speaker002:] who did they have I've my friends who watch CNN all the time they like knew these guys [speaker001:] I can't think of the name of the guy that represented the left [speaker002:] yeah uh I saw the uh McLaughlin had a similar type of a program on [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] I guess Buchanan retired from that also [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] that that's a good show I like that one a lot [speaker001:] yeah that's actually on a network isn't it [speaker002:] yeah it's on I guess it was on PBS for a while [speaker001:] that's exactly right [speaker002:] probably still is [speaker001:] and and uh see because I've run into that a couple of times on accident and uh ended up watching it for like extended periods of time but that's how I get most of my news is is [speaker002:] yeah yeah PBS PBS PBS uh you know MacNeil Lehrer or uh NPR usually have some decent in depth stuff [speaker001:] I tried listening to NPR but uh uh I mean in the mornings I don't in the mornings I want I want a little I want you know the the yeah the USA Today feed you know give me a couple of color graphs and uh and I'll be happy [speaker002:] headlines oh God I hate that yeah we have uh you know the local newspaper is is pretty weak [speaker001:] uh um-hum [speaker002:] but uh and I once in a every once in a while like every six months or every three months I read the Times [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] the Times is pretty good [speaker001:] the only thing that scares me about um the way I do news is getting it from like these pre digested sources you know like the like the typically what I've heard maybe it's just the people I hang around with but typically I hear people saying that like uh the news on TV and what not tends to be um more on the left hand side it tends to be a little bit more liberal and if nothing else it does tend to be more editorialized than these are the facts [speaker002:] well not only that but it's so little there's no background [speaker001:] true too [speaker002:] uh you know I rely a lot to tell you the truth on uh you know when I was growing up I learned geography I'd read the Times a lot so you know and every every day there'd be an article on some country you know what's doing in that country this week [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] you know because there's enough countries that uh you know there'd be something interesting happening pretty much and I got a pretty good feel for you know and um that and taking some economics classes you get a pretty good feel for how the world works [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] so when you hear a story then you say well what aren't they telling you [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] and then you start conjecturing and that's where I hate I hate it because you know I can guess what's happening but I don't know the real truth and uh they just they leave out so much [speaker001:] but see I think you and I perhaps I I think uh well I get the feeling that that you and I perhaps might might take the time to try and figure out exactly what really happened as opposed to what they're telling us even though they maybe close [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] but I wonder how much of the rest of America takes the time to to stop with just the the straight spoon fed you know [speaker002:] huh you can stop wondering they don't care [speaker001:] yeah yeah well especially when you figure what a third of the people that bother to vote always vote Republican a third of the people that always that bother to vote always vote Democrat and

[speaker001:] [Clicking]. [speaker002:] Okay. Uh, before a couple of years ago, I had a, a very narrow view of, of nursing homes and it was, uh, more like a funeral home. I always joked around about it being a funeral home and not really a nursing home. And, uh, then I had to do some volunteer work here in Tyler, Texas and I went to one and it just had a very good activities director. Everyone was cheerful and now I don't have such a bad view of nursing homes anymore. But I, I certainly wouldn't want to send my parent unless it was an absolute last re-, resort. Uh, I have a sister that is in nursing school and she's real interested in geriatrics. [speaker001:] Well, that sounds good. [speaker002:] Yeah. So, uh, she, she's real interested in, uh, what Ann Richards has been doing. She's, Ann Richards is really cracking down on, uh, the nursing homes and, I don't know, you wouldn't know anything about a Texas governor [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] I've heard the name and that's about all it goes. [speaker002:] Okay. Ann Richards is our governor in Texas and she's really cracking down on restrictions and what goes on in nursing homes. And, uh, my sister's real interested in that and, and getting into the, to that side of nursing. [speaker001:] Yeah. That's one problem with the, the nursing home environment. It, the elderly, even out of the nursing home, are very open to abuse. [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] Uh, you know, they don't always have their full wits about them. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] They're not completely up on what should be going on or what's not going on. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] And it can be pretty sad. I've got a, had a grandmother who had a stroke. And she was in a nursing home for four or five years before she died. [speaker002:] Oh. [speaker001:] And, you know, it's the type of thing that she was living down in Florida. My in-, families was up in Maryland [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] and the other part of her family was up in, uh, New York state. [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] And, you know, it was very difficult for either them or my grandfather to take care of her since she was, uh, you know, could not do very much for herself after the stroke. [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] And, you know, the nursing home was the, you know, best facility to put her in. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] You know, besides moving her up which is not a practical solution since both my parents work and both my, uh, aunts and uncle work. [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] Which means it's, you know, very difficult for some-, you essentially need to have someone taking care of the person full-time. [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] And, you know, there's also a lot of medical problems that can't always be completely handled in the home. [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] Which makes it, you know, it's a necessary evil I think. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. It sure is. And some of the really nice ones that really take care of their people are so expensive. Because [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] cause they can afford to hire the people that are really going to care for the older. [speaker001:] Yeah. And, you know, even there you have to watch out for, you know, you get one person who's a little bit dishonest working in there and, you know, the elderly sometimes have a lot of jewelry [speaker002:] Oh, yeah. [speaker001:] and other stuff that just very easily tends to disappear in the nursing homes. [speaker002:] Right. My grandfather passed away several years ago. I was much younger. But, uh, he was in the nursing home the last several years of his life and someone visited him every day. My grandmother did. But, uh, if she couldn't, someone visited him every day. It was in a very small town nursing home. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] And, uh, people didn't get paid much there at all. They didn't care about what went on. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] They would let a, let a patient get a lot of bed sores. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] And, uh, the, the people living in the nursing home would have all kinds of needs that wouldn't get met because they were just old people. And then, the nurses and doctors really didn't put any for, forth any loving care for them. [speaker001:] Either that or they're just so understaffed that they can't afford [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] to put in the, uh, care that they need. [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] Cause it's, you know, an elderly person can, you know, it's like a newborn baby. You need [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] to have twenty-four hour care [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] uh, answering all the needs cause they can't do much for themselves at certain points. [speaker002:] Right. And nurses get so worn down. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. And, you know, there's a lot of, number of the elderly are very, you know, complaining because they remember the way that things used to be. [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] And remember being able to do things for themselves which, you know, they no longer can. [speaker002:] Oh, sure. And they feel [speaker001:] And it, very, very hard [mispronounced] for them to accept that. [speaker002:] they feel pretty helpless. [speaker001:] We just, uh, moved my grandfather into, not a nursing home but, you know, a transitional type facility. [speaker002:] Is it, uh, like a retirement center? [speaker001:] More of a retirement home. He's got his own efficiency apartment. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] And they provide one meal a day. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] And, you know, the rest of the housekeeping and other meals a day are up to him. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] But they do have, you know, group activities going on. [speaker002:] How's he handling that? [speaker001:] Uh, he'd much rather be living alone in his apartment down in Florida. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] Uh, you know, to move into that facility we moved him from Florida up to Maryland and [speaker002:] Ooh. [speaker001:] it's, it's a bit of a shock to the system, weather-wise, if nothing else. [speaker002:] Oh, sure. There wasn't anything like that, that you could do in Florida? [speaker001:] Well there was stuff like that in Florida but,

[speaker001:] Well, I was just looking around my house and thinking about the painting that I've done. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] And the last time that, um, we tackled it, I did the kitchen. And I had gone through a period of depression at one time and painted everything a dark, it was called a sassafras, it was kind of an orangish brown. [speaker002:] Okay. [speaker001:] It was not real pretty. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] Anyway, so the kitchen was one of the rooms that got hit with that color. [speaker002:] Uh-huh, I see. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] So I tried to cover it with white, and it was quite a, a feat getting that dark a color covered, and then just the hassles getting around the cabinets, and know if I look underneath my cabinets, I'm not satisfied with the jobs I, I did on it because there're splotches. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] But, I'm glad it's done, because it's brighter. [speaker002:] Yeah, yeah, that's for sure. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Well, we, uh, I just got married about six months ago, and we bought a house at the same time. So we're, I'm sitting here in my forty year old house, and we're about halfway through the painting process [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Oh, lord. [speaker002:] So, uh, the only, uh, I guess the, the big discussion, just kind of what you were mentioning, has been the color. We ended up with our, our living and dining room are now, uh, kind of a, a light peach color with, uh, and it's got all the old, original hardwood trim and stuff, so we've got the trim in kind of, uh, kind of an off-white. And this is really the first, uh, interior painting project that I've attacked. [LAUGHTER] And, it's, it's been, uh, it's been something else, to say the least. We, we had the same type of situation. Uh, the walls were, uh, uh, well, they weren't, the color difference wasn't so bad, but, uh, there was semigloss underneath [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] and we put a flat over the top, and everywhere you'd miss there'd be this little bright spot you could see [LAUGHTER]. It seems like you could see it through about three layers of paint. [speaker001:] Oh yeah. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] Every time the sun would come up in the morning I'd see another spot and have to drag out the paint can. But, uh, we've learned. We, we, uh, we worked, we've worked our way back into the hallway, and, and we're in the middle of the bathroom now. But, uh, it's, it's been quite an adventure. [pause] The other, the other thing that makes it, uh, a little more difficult, we've got all hardwood floors, and, uh, we, we've learned to be a little more careful about covering up the floors since the, since the first [LAUGHTER] time we spent a lot of time on the floor with a tooth, toothbrush and what not cleaning up. [speaker001:] So what are you going to get it off with if you get it on and it's dried? [speaker002:] Well, it's, it's not too bad. It, it, uh, the floors are finished with a polyurethane, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] and it's really not to bad to get off, *typo to -] too it, it, we're just using latex, and it's not too bad to get it off once it's dried even. It, it, it, uh, comes off with like a mild abrasive pad, like a scotch-brite pad or something like that and wa-, and soap and water. So, we got pretty lucky on that. [speaker001:] And it's not scratching your floor, [speaker002:] No, not really. [speaker001:] because it's so thick. Oh, that's pretty good. [speaker002:] But. [speaker001:] We painted every room in this house, some of them like two, three times. We have two children. [speaker002:] Okay, yeah. [speaker001:] And, they just, they ruin, [LAUGHTER], [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] it's just terrible what they do. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] And then I have been coloring my hair, and I'm real haphazard when I do it. So I've got dye on my bathroom door. [speaker002:] Oh, gosh. [speaker001:] And I haven't figured out how to get that off. I guess I'll have to take that door down and really get it good. [speaker002:] Yeah, yeah, probably so. [speaker001:] And then we have a two story. [speaker002:] Okay. [speaker001:] We did the outside of it one summer. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] That was horrendous. I mean, I, I couldn't stand the back side going up that high on the ladder. I could get up on the roof and do that. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] [Breathing] But, [speaker002:] Yeah, I, uh, [speaker001:] I dread that the next time. [speaker002:] Yeah, we, uh, our house was painted as part of the purchase contract, so we didn't have to mess with that this time. But I've, I, I grew up on a farm, so I, I've, I've messed with outdoor painting a little bit, uh, but most of that, it was done with a sprayer and, uh, up in the bucket of a loader tractor, or something like that, so, it took a lot of the hassle out. And then [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] they're, we're not, you know, you're not nearly as concerned with a barn or a grainery, or something like that as you would be with your own house. [speaker001:] No, I wouldn't think so [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Have you guys tackled your ceilings yet? [speaker002:] Uh, a little bit, yeah, yeah. [speaker001:] Oh, we got to do that this summer. We're dreading it. [speaker002:] Yeah [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] It's like, they're dark. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] Everything else is white. [speaker002:] Oh, gosh, yeah. Just, just the opposite of what everybody's, uh, working towards now. [speaker001:] Now have you thought about this? That wherever you buy your paint, you need to make sure that that store's not likely to go out of business. [speaker002:] Yeah, yeah, absolutely [LAUGHTER]. Yeah, we, uh, we stocked up the first time around. But we've definitely got all the formulas on file, and, uh, we're, they'll be there for a while. We're, we're pretty comfortable with that. But, yeah, it, it, I'm, I'm real nervous every time I, I open a new can. I'm wondering if I shouldn't buy about twenty gallons at one time and keep it all in a, in a washtub or something somewhere because I'm alwa-, I'm always afraid that the next coat is not going to match. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] But, uh. It's gone pretty well. It just, it, it, takes, it takes some time. My problem is, while I, I'm not overly proud of it, but I'm a self-proclaimed, proclaimed perfectionist, and it, it takes me a long time to do trim and things like that. And I'll find, I'll find something as I'm going along, something not related, like, like, uh, I've gone about changing out all the outlets and switches because, they, they really didn't match. They were, a few of them were broken and things like that. So, I always pick up these little extra tasks as I'm doing this, and, [LAUGHTER] and the painting actually takes probably, uh, a fourth of the time, and I'm always doing all this other stuff, and my wife's hollering at me and wondering what else I've come home with from work this time to, to put in, a ceiling fan or something strange like that. So uh, it, it, it always, it, it, it gets you to look at everything real hard when yo-, you start putting a coat of paint on everything, you start to notice where all the dents and scratches and things are everywhere. [speaker001:] Oh, but I still feel good, the minute I put that paint on, [LAUGHTER] even if it does got a dent in it [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] I do. [speaker002:] Yeah, it sure makes a difference. [speaker001:] Oh, wha-, what else can I tell you about painting? [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Oh, and I get it all in my hair, too. Do you do that? [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] Spots in it. [speaker002:] Yeah, it's, it's been, uh, we, we bought this house with the idea that we were going to spend, you know, spend a lot of time working on it, and, uh, it was part, you know, part of the excitement was, was getting a good deal on an older house that just, it really hadn't been taken care of very well. It, it was actually, it was rented out for a couple of years and things like that. So, we uh, we ended up getting a fairly good deal on it. But, uh, there just isn't enough time, I, I, I fi-, find myself going to work knowing that, that there's a job about half done at home, and I really, if I would, if I'd just stay home and finish it, I'd feel a lot better, but, uh, I'm, I'm starting to learn that there's always something else. [LAUGHTER] Once you get done, you can always start over and, and you make up all kinds of excuses. So, uh. * slash error [speaker001:] Are you having to repair the walls at all? [speaker002:] Uh, not a whole lot. *slash error It, they're, they're in pretty good condition, um, as far as, uh, major repairs. You know, lo-, a lot of little filling holes and nicks and things like that, but, uh, the only, the most major things have been, uh, oh, I guess I, I moved a couple of outlets, and, er, uh, switches I should say. For some reason, they put a bathroom light switch in the hallway and, uh [speaker001:] Um, that's smart. [speaker002:] yeah, and I, I didn't like that very well, so I, I moved that, but, uh, most of it, most of it's in pretty good shape. [speaker001:] So where do you live? [speaker002:] Uh, live in Dallas. [speaker001:] I'm in Garland. [speaker002:] Okay, okay. [speaker001:] Did you try to call this weekend? [speaker002:] Uh. [speaker001:] To that switchboard, did you keep getting that it was down? [speaker002:] No, no, I haven't, uh, I hadn't tried. [speaker001:] You didn't? [speaker002:] In fact, we were, we were planting flowers this weekend [LAUGHTER]. So, uh, I was pretty tied up, but. [speaker001:] Yeah, well, I've never tried any other kinds of painting besides on a surface like the house [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] like to paint a picture or anything. I don't know, I can't think of anything else to say about painting. [speaker002:] Yeah, that, uh. [speaker001:] It hurts your back, and it hurts your arm. [speaker002:] Yeah, you know it [LAUGHTER]. I get a so-, I get a sore neck from looking up all the time, yeah, things like that [LAUGHTER] [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] but, uh, no, that pretty much covers my experiences. [speaker001:] But you're glad you're doing it, right? [speaker002:] Oh yeah, most definitely. It, it just, it makes such a difference. I, like I say, th-, the overall appearance of this house is what really devalued it so much. Uh, I, you know, I, I don't want to put a price on it, but I just feel like we're, every, every gallon of paint adds a tremendous amount of value to the house. You know, ev-, every time I do something, aside from that it just makes me feel a whole lot better to come home, an you know, o-, the walls are clean, and they match, and all those kinds of things. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. Do you have one of those straightedge things to put underneath when you're doing the baseboards? [speaker002:] Yeah, yeah, we do. It, uh, it sometimes works and it sometimes doesn't. It's a, uh, when I start doing trim, I, I've gotten to where I, I tend to freehand it because ther-, there's so many layers of paint on this house after forty years that, uh, it, it's so hard to tell where an edge is anymore, and uh. [speaker001:] On your baseboards? [speaker002:] Yeah, yeah, they y-, [speaker001:] You don't have any carpet down in your house? [speaker002:] No there's no carpet in the house right now. [speaker001:] See, we've got carpet, and, I haven't figured out how you're supposed to paint it, on down, so that you won't see where you stopped off [speaker002:] Um, -kay. [speaker001:] and still not get it on the carpet. Because every time you move that edger then it gets the carpet into it. [speaker002:] Well, you know, um. [speaker001:] You can't hold it there until it's dried. [speaker002:] Yeah, I, I've p-, I've seen, uh, they're, they make some plastic edging stuff that comes in like three foot lengths. And, you can, uh, you can tape them together and, and, and put...

[speaker001:] um do you have any elderly parents or grandparents that have ever had to go in a nursing home [speaker002:] uh yes my uh mother was in a nursing home for five years before she passed away in nineteen seventy seven [speaker001:] oh oh now was it how did you feel about that was it a good nursing home and you felt good about her being there or [speaker002:] it was a fair nursing home [speaker001:] a fair one [speaker002:] uh it it was a matter uh she reached the point where she couldn't stay by herself during the daytime she and my sister who never married lived together [speaker001:] um-hum oh [speaker002:] and my sister couldn't retire at the time so my uh mother's physician recommended that uh she go into a nursing home [speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh oh uh-huh [speaker002:] and fortunately my sister was able to go visit her twice a day [speaker001:] oh wow that is good [speaker002:] and uh [speaker001:] boy I'll say that is good [speaker002:] she she just reached the point where she had to have professional care she was eighty two at the time [speaker001:] um-hum my word so she couldn't take care of herself at all [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] did how did she feel about it did she how did your mother feel about it [speaker002:] well I don't think she ever really adjusted [speaker001:] didn't she [speaker002:] uh my mother was very very shy she never joined anything [speaker001:] oh oh [speaker002:] and uh she realized that it was something that had to be done [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] but she had begun to lose a great deal of of her memory capacity at the time [speaker001:] oh um-hum [speaker002:] and finally about uh oh say about a year before she died my sister was the only person that she ever really recognized and could call by name [speaker001:] my word oh oh boy now what about the expense part of it was it an expensive one or did her did she have health insurance or Medicaid [speaker002:] uh no uh oh several years before well it's a long thirty minute story but uh when my father died in nineteen fifty eight uh I uh transferred the title to my sister [speaker001:] um-hum oh [speaker002:] uh which was an internal family deal I I knew that if something happened and my sister couldn't take care of her I would [speaker001:] uh-huh oh uh-huh [speaker002:] but uh uh we had fixed it for her uh oh many years before she went into the nursing home like about fifteen so that she had no assets so as it turned out Medicaid paid for all of it [speaker001:] uh-huh oh oh oh great [speaker002:] uh [speaker001:] well that helps because I know that it can take a person's whole life life savings I [speaker002:] yeah yeah yeah [speaker001:] um my parents are not quite that old yet but my grandmother um right now is in this situation where she cannot stay alone at home either and so um her she has four daughters and one son and the four daughters rotate and keep her for three months at a time and they are all in a position where they can do that right now and then my husband's grandmother about oh probably two years ago she fell and broke her hip [speaker002:] um-hum um-hum um-hum [speaker001:] and of course she had to go into the nursing home there and and it was a fairly nice one in fact she got to where she enjoyed it there she knew the staff and knew the other people that were there and and in fact when she came home she was able to get better and come home she really missed the association with the people there [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] and I but I don't know I I whenever I go into a nursing home I uh for some reason it it makes me feel sad I because I a lot of people I know are there just because um you know their families want them there and and they don't they aren't willing to take care of them and I I think that's a sad situation [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] um [speaker002:] my my uh other sister [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] uh who was married at the time and was still working [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] worked for several years in a nursing home and she said roughly half [speaker001:] oh uh-huh [speaker002:] of the people don't have anybody [speaker001:] oh no [speaker002:] and nobody ever comes to see them [speaker001:] my word that many of them [speaker002:] yeah that's too bad [speaker001:] oh boy I it is I I don't know a nursing home seems to be such a a non personal environment the ones that I've been to um I have been to one that seemed really you know warm and cozy but for the most part they've seemed you know no carpet on the floors and just kind of cold and I I [speaker002:] yeah I know and they all seem understaffed and the staff's overworked [speaker001:] right that's right yeah so [speaker002:] well let's face it there there for the most part well there's one exception that I'll tell you about in a minute uh for the most part they're profit centers [speaker001:] uh-huh that's right [speaker002:] uh but uh my my sister who looked after my mother [speaker001:] that's right [speaker002:] uh let's see she died in ninety so this would have been the first of the year in nineteen eighty nine she made [speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh

[speaker001:] There a lot of places to camp in Dallas? [speaker002:] Well, not necessarily in Dallas, but it's a very short drive to areas near here. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. Do you do a lot of camping? [speaker002:] Well, I have done camping in the past. Uh, I can't remember when the last time I actually went camping was. It was, uh, several years ago, and then I did most of my camping in the mountains. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. Well, that must have been fun though. [speaker002:] Well, it is. I enjoy hiking and camping. We went to the . I have, uh, some land there, and so it's, it's handy to, to station yourself there on the land [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] and then make trips up into the mountains for backpacking and hiking and, and overnight camping. [speaker001:] Well, that sounds fun. [speaker002:] Do you do most of yours in tents? [speaker001:] Yeah, we've done ours, I've only been camping twice. [speaker002:] Oh, wow. [speaker001:] And one of them I don't really consider camping. [speaker002:] Um. [speaker001:] It was on the edge of the lake and it was at a camp. I don't like those camping grounds [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] where, you know, you got R V beside you and then another people in tents beside you. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] I just don't care for that. [speaker002:] No, I agree with you. I think it's much nicer when you can really get out far enough away where, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] that you can't see people [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] right out the window. But, [speaker001:] Well, it doesn't, uh, we, uh, four years ago, it was about four years ago, my little boy was three months old and the first time I left him we went overnight camping. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] And we went, and we found this little peninsula out in the middle of nowhere by the lake. And we had a ball. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] Just sat out there with our, we didn't even use tents then, we just had, uh, sleeping bags [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] and fire going. And we fried potatoes and bacon and everything for breakfast the next morning. [speaker002:] Doesn't that always taste so much better, [speaker001:] Oh, it did, it did. [speaker002:] when you're out like that. Yeah. [speaker001:] I didn't even think about frying potatoes. But my sister-in-law, she's always done a lot of camping. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] And she's good. She'd think about bringing a rake so you can rake your area out. And, yeah. [speaker002:] That's right. If you don't you'll find every rock on it when you [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] put your [LAUGHTER], when you put your bag down. [speaker001:] Well, sh-, yeah, she was, she is always prepared, I mean, she brought everything from, like I said, toilet paper to the rake. The only thing we'd had to do, we had to go out looking for some kind of a grill, you know. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] We, and we, and we seen this old refrigerator that somebody had dumped [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] and we broke the, I guess it's the freezing component [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] and we broke that out of there and put it over our, um, hole. [speaker002:] Oh, what a clever idea [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] I wouldn't have thought about that. [speaker001:] Well, it held our pan and, you know, the potatoes and stuff. We had a good time. [speaker002:] Oh, that's a good idea. [speaker001:] Yeah, we're still waiting to go again. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. Well if you get a chance, now there are some really nice camping areas, uh, up in the Wichitas, which is in Oklahoma [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] and, uh, Arkansas. [speaker001:] Arkansas. [speaker002:] I can't remember the name. It's, it's on the Oklahoma-Arkansas border. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] And it won't take but just a, you know, just a quick look at a map to find where those mountains are, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] but I took a drive up through there, as a matter of fact, last September, just took the drive through to see what was there. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] They have some wonderful camping areas there. [speaker001:] Pretty. [speaker002:] Beautiful, beautiful country. [speaker001:] Well, I love to swim, so I like to get out by a lake [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] or a, uh, you know, somewhere close [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] where we can swim. [speaker002:] Right, well, Lake, Lake Tawakoni is a pretty nice place [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] and we had a two bedroom mobile home there, but the boys still liked to throw their sleeping bags out by the lake and [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] build a little fire and roast their marshmallows until the mosquitos bit [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] and then they came in. [speaker001:] How old are your boys? [speaker002:] Oh, oh they're grown now. [speaker001:] Oh, so they don't go camping with you. [speaker002:] They go camping on their own. [speaker001:] Oh. [speaker002:] Once you start them, they enjoy it all their lives. [speaker001:] Yeah, well, I haven't taken my little boy yet. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] I'm afraid to get him out. He is so fearless, he, it terrifies me. [speaker002:] Uh-huh [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] He, [speaker002:] Oh, don't be concerned. There's much less for them to get hurt on camping than there is elsewhere. [speaker001:] Think so? [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] Well, it's the water he's not scared of. He'll go out into it until it's up to his nose [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] and then try to tread back [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. Well, it's easy to keep him occupied though on land. I know that I took my kids, we'd go out, and I've them walk with me along the lakefront [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] and we'd have a little contest finding the tiniest shell, and finding the biggest shell. And, or we'd hunt pine cones [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] or we climbed some, uh, pinon pines one year and gathered the cones so that we could eat the pine nuts. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] And, we did a lot of naturalist work when we were out. We, you know, we, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] we searched for and we ate the wild plants and we gathered wild berries, and, uh, it's really, you know [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] the, the mountains can accommodate you if you know what to find. [speaker001:] If you know what to look for. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. I had my boys build their own little c-, you know, three leg camp stools by cutting a branch off the tree and binding them together with bark. [speaker001:] Well, that sounds so neat. [speaker002:] And, uh, we cooked in a pot. I baked them a cake, right there on a camp fire. They were so impressed. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] I used a tire chain and the bottom of a Dutch oven. [speaker001:] Well, I'm impressed [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] My mother-in-law and my, well, they've always done a lot of camping. I grew up in Louisville, Kentucky and there wasn't, I don't know, but we just didn't get out. My mother and my father split up when we were young, so, and my mother wasn't into that, and that's who I stayed with. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] So we didn't do much outdoors stuff, except swimming [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] and we went swimming a lot. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] And, uh, oh, excuse me, my baby's getting sick. [speaker002:] Uh-oh. [speaker001:] I know. [speaker002:] Well, if our time is up we can quit. [speaker001:] Yeah, um, I've got to clean her up [LAUGHTER]. I'm sorry, appreciate it. [speaker002:] Okay. Uh-huh. [speaker001:] I enjoyed talking. Thank you. [speaker002:] You bet, bye-bye. [speaker001:] Bye-bye.

[speaker002:] uh are you a TIer [speaker001:] no [speaker002:] okay well we might have a difference uh to talk about on clothing uh [speaker001:] you sound like some guy I talked to yesterday [speaker002:] what [speaker001:] you sound like the same person I talked to yesterday [speaker002:] I am how come we got the same conversation subject [speaker001:] I don't know [speaker002:] okay I was amazed that they had the same subject on clothing too I never have had that before I noticed it on the weekends occasionally when I call [speaker001:] well so was I [speaker002:] and how could they possibly get the same person that's ridiculous [speaker001:] okay well have your opinions changed in the last twenty four hours [speaker002:] no no they sure haven't what other aspects I'm I I'm this is funny you know uh clothing let's see [speaker001:] uh [speaker002:] I was curious you know if they just want to talk about the words of uh related to clothing that polyester was coming back have you heard that uh I saw it on the TV that the models were [speaker001:] no ooh gross [speaker002:] they had a new kind of polyester uh whether that they just like to switch materials uh periodically I don't know we might I haven't we didn't talk about materials I I prefer you know the cotton with very little in fact when I look for [speaker001:] oh definitely [speaker002:] uh I I try to go for the cottons and I don't know that polyester will although men's shirts are half-and-half or sixty forty or whatever [speaker001:] I mean polyester especially in this climate polyester just doesn't work too well [speaker002:] yeah I uh I'm originally from the east and I we used to wear sweaters and things and sweaters are [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] this isn't necessarily sweater country uh you know I I guess they're not as popular as they were I don't know about how women if you do you have problems with air-conditioning or were you you were uh uh is that a factor [speaker001:] yeah it's always yeah it seems like it's always cold inside and part of my problem is that I'm in and out a lot because [speaker002:] that's very bad yeah [speaker001:] yeah we've got a lot of buildings downtown and I have to go to a lot of meetings in different buildings and so I'm in and out of the air-conditioning and you know like I said we have to wear suits and that's [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] you know it it gets to be quite uncomfortable at times [speaker002:] at TI I am too in and out and well of course we don't wear ties and jackets certainly not in this kind of weather the the jackets they don't disappear but they you know they're they're on a hook usually the vice president's or the manager's and again I used to wear them but I don't I don't bother with it right now yeah that is a problem uh where did I see an article about where they're about that subject where they're trying to have oh I know it was lunchrooms where they're trying to encourage people to stay at work and so that's why they even downtown this might be applicable [speaker001:] huh [speaker002:] where they're trying to have restaurants within walking distance but at the same time in other words you go down in a subway or whatever [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] and go to lunch and they say that's so much more healthy for you than going out in the street in the open traffic and going to lunch you'd be better of [speaker001:] is that right [speaker002:] I'm sure maybe you do have some tunnels down there [speaker001:] oh definitely yeah I mean [speaker002:] and they they say that's so much more healthy for you to you know when you have to go out or go to lunch or whatever it's to to walk or however and get to a place that is uh you don't have to go in and out of the of the temperature [speaker001:] I haven't heard that [speaker002:] whether that affects how you dress I can imagine uh [speaker001:] the last thing I heard about fashion I think I mentioned it yesterday was that wide ties were coming back [speaker002:] right yeah I uh [speaker001:] I don't know I think I always run a little bit behind It takes me awhile to get used to [speaker002:] well I I'm for colorful things and I sure I I do enjoy the uh the newer products along those lines what do you think about women and wearing slacks and all that we haven't talked about that [speaker001:] oh I wouldn't wear slacks to work [speaker002:] okay [speaker001:] um people don't where I work I mean it's just not done [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] at all but now I have worked places where they do and even then I still didn't [speaker002:] do you have children I might comment on teenagers how they dress [speaker001:] I don't have a teenager I have a six year old and he's still [speaker002:] oh you have a lot to experience I have two [speaker001:] he's still at the age where I can dress him how I want to [speaker002:] right well have the opposite then I have uh well one of they're almost now teenagers at one twenty almost twenty and one almost sixteen and I learned early on being surrounded by women here that the I I love to take them shopping but I don't pick anything out you know I I just kind of influence but uh the the teen the junior high teenagers really [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] I don't know if you can describe how they dress you know you you [speaker001:] well I have a girlfriend who has a daughter that's a teenager and every year before school starts she has me take her shopping for clothes because they fight too much [speaker002:] I I know what angle that we can talk about here we they want us to talk about clothes around work but uh the way kids in school should dress and I'll give you my opinion I don't think that the school should just kind of let the kids dress what is the current style not that it's totally ridiculous of course but [speaker001:] well I just read something in fact I think it was today about how the public a lot of private or a lot of the public schools now are going to uniforms [speaker002:] public schools oh I didn't hear that yet [speaker001:] yeah because uh they feel like there's too much competition in the clothing and it it clearly defines you know class lines in where you know the the Guess jeans and the you know stuff as opposed to the people who can't and so it takes people's concentration the thought behind it is that people won't concentrate or worry about what they're wearing what everybody else is wearing and it will take their mind off that and you know enable them to you know study better plus they say [speaker002:] right well well whoever said that in my opinion doesn't have any teenagers who didn't grow they won't do that they'll never pass it that will be like [speaker001:] this was they weren't talking about it wasn't talking about actually I I kind of like that idea and I had my son in private school where they do wear uniforms and uh I I really like that [speaker002:] right uh-huh I can uh of course I went to school you know a hundred years ago in college and uh we did wear ties and jackets and this was they have since changed it was an engineering school a city it was in an downtown area like I don't know well you can't compare anything around here to the school in like no UTA here is in Arlington it's not exactly downtown but I guess like that and they just historically since it was in the city they wanted us to wear jackets and ties and I did my whole college career which is I guess terribly unusual [speaker001:] huh [speaker002:] we wore jackets and ties for four years and I so subsequently I wanted to get a masters degree in in after I got out of the service and uh they changed drafts so there was a [speaker001:] that is yeah [speaker002:] the styles have certainly changed to where I guess my campus now looks like typical uh college campus I guess [speaker001:] yeah I think well I think for a while kids were dressing nicer in colleges but um nowadays uh I I still I take classes at UTD and they um you know they wear jeans and sometimes they don't even have shoes on [speaker002:] huh the older I get the more more open to other people's ideas uh you cannot be you have to let them come out with uh whatever they not whatever but some of their ideas too and so you kind of back off and see what people and I know their clothing is changing you know all the time and I'm I'm certainly open [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] to how you should dress uh now of course the subject is work uh or clothes really I guess [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] uh and the only again the one thing I am at at work is is certainly a professional look but I'm not saying that that will not change the professional look will look differently from year to year perhaps [speaker001:] do you spend a lot of money on clothes for work [speaker002:] no I really don't it's uh uh go through a lot of shirts and think no I don't really [speaker001:] you know I think and and this may be totally unfair and unfounded but it seems to me like women have to spend more money on clothes for work then men do because men can have a few suits and you know a bunch of different shirts and some different ties but you know women practically have to have you know a whole bunch of different suits [speaker002:] uh-huh right well you're sure right there because not even when I wore a jacket and a lot of the guys when I was up at Spring Creek in uh Plano uh we think he just brought the same jacket even that wasn't a that's not a black mark against the man and you're right that uh women are expected to look more everything matches I guess [speaker001:] yeah and then of course you know accessories you know shoes and hose and earrings and you know all that stuff [speaker002:] right right right [speaker001:] um it's just I it's outrageous you know because you know you still spend two three hundred dollars on a suit [speaker002:] your work without saying much about it do they ever bring the subject up of asking your opinion on on whether you want things to change on how you dress or [speaker001:] no I ultimate leave and I haven't been at work in awhile so I I don't really know [speaker002:] are the ties oh [speaker001:] you know from what I I went to a concert earlier this week and saw some people and just noticed how there's a lot of the wider ties [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] but they're not they're not the same as the wide [speaker002:] right uh-huh uh TI has several locations different sites have a little bit different dress dress like I said at Spring Creek it was definitely more formal I think because it was newer and uh type and many many more people wore there was very there was very few production areas [speaker001:] do you think it has anything to do with the ages of people [speaker002:] uh that

[speaker002:] all right so we started recording already [speaker001:] uh I guess I don't know it's the first time I've made a phone call on it [speaker002:] oh so you pressed one okay so I guess we're supposed to start talking uh what kind of books do you read [speaker001:] right I read uh a lot of Steven King Dean R Koontz uh some Danielle Steel my aunt got me hooked on those [speaker002:] um-hum um-hum so it's mostly all novels okay [speaker001:] so I yeah they're all novels I'll read some of classic too [speaker002:] oh like what [speaker001:] um well I like The Grapes Of Wrath by Steinbeck an I like um [speaker002:] uh yeah I like that I like Steinbeck a lot [speaker001:] a A Rose For Emily by Faulkner that's one of my favorite [speaker002:] I have never read a lot of Faulkner [speaker001:] oh and this this is more of a play or something that it that it was from that that I saw and I read the book from that [speaker002:] oh cool [speaker001:] and by the way my name's Bill I'm from North Carolina [speaker002:] I'm Doug I'm from Pennsylvania [speaker001:] um um I let's see what kind of books do you like to read [speaker002:] um well a bunch of stuff I guess um fair number of novels but mostly shorter ones and like I don't really like the you know six hundred page long Stephen King novels and all that right [speaker001:] I really have to be in the mood I I read one like maybe once a year of those [speaker002:] um-hum no like I like say uh Richard Broudigan a lot um okay he's um [speaker001:] I've never read anything by him [speaker002:] he's dead now but he was really a pretty amazing writer he wrote books that were like pretty short and pretty easy to read you know like written at a third grade level or whatever but they were still very heavy and philosophical also very funny like he wrote Trout Fishing in America [speaker001:] yeah okay [speaker002:] so that's anyway and um I read a lot of nonfiction books too um let's see [speaker001:] I like to read read a lot of nonfiction history when Civil War era and [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] and that kind of thing I I found that real interesting I'm reading The Lion and the Wind right now and that was on TV it was uh [speaker002:] uh-huh now what's that [speaker001:] sometime during Teddy Roosevelt's time [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] and um about about American woman that got kidnapped in um Morocco [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] uh this is when they were having their revolution or whatever and Teddy Roosevelt sent troops over and really portrays him as a kind of a crazy man [speaker002:] um-hum yeah [speaker001:] surprised me I had no idea that he was like that [speaker002:] um-hum what how crazy [speaker001:] well just like some some uh one quote that he had was that he thought the America's emblem was stupid because it was an eagle and it should be a grizzly bear because he liked the to [speaker002:] uh [speaker001:] to to hunt grizzly and stuff like that [speaker002:] I see [speaker001:] so it was it was I saw the movie and that's what uh made me want to read the book Candice Bergen was in the movie I'm a real big fan of hers so [speaker002:] um-hum yeah cool see I also read a lot of books about music because I'm interested in that and fair number of stuff about science and also philosophy things [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] what [speaker001:] I like I like to read some of the philosophy stuff stuff stuff [speaker002:] um-hum like let's see and even like reading some new age things things that I don't quite believe in like here on my shelf I have a book called Journeys Out of the Body [speaker001:] yeah I think that I'm fascinated by that yeah I'm fascinated by that [speaker002:] it's all about how to have out of body experiences and all of that um-hum yep [speaker001:] that and and uh even stuff about not like ghost stories but real encounters with ghosts and supposedly haunted houses I like I'm kind of a doubting Thomas and I like to read stuff like that [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] some of it really freaks me out [speaker002:] yeah um-hum you're right definitely [speaker001:] um and I like to read um I like to read some self help books like um I read Dianetics once once I got past all the gibberish on it and [speaker002:] uh did you like it [speaker001:] it was okay it it it it took me a while to really get into it it didn't help me that much but uh I think once you're set in your ways you're set in your ways [speaker002:] um-hum I see yeah [speaker001:] um then I one interesting real interesting book I read recently was when I was looking for a job I read How to Get the Job That You Wanted and it it had real good tips in it and [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] I got the job that I wanted by applying the the methods that that they

[speaker001:] okay [speaker002:] first how much television watching do you do [speaker001:] so I do a little bit more than I think usual people do because I am here alone during the day and I like it just for the noise [speaker002:] uh-huh that's right but do you actually watch it and pay attention to it or is it more of a company [speaker001:] um um it just depends on what it is I mean I have my favorite things that I do and that's a fun thing to do sometimes but um what about you [speaker002:] um-hum um-hum okay right well actually I I work full time and when I'm not working I'm running and I don't watch a lot of television and I'm very selective in what I watch if there's something that I absolutely [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] want to watch I will turn it on and watch it and then turn it off I probably watch television four hours a week [speaker001:] well see that's great yeah [speaker002:] max and uh if if I don't find something that I really want or really want to watch well then I just do not turn it on I would rather listen to music [speaker001:] well right [speaker002:] part of it is that uh I think we need to be very selective about the kinds of things that come to us on a subliminal basis and I think that if we're doing other things and these programs come in sometimes they influence us and we don't know where that influence came from [speaker001:] well I think that well part I think that's partially true I think you have to have the will and the and the um [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] anyway I think it you you could be susceptible to stuff and it has to be reinforced at another level too but anyway what would you watch if you had you know this week to watch I mean do you like specials [speaker002:] uh right right right of course I uh that's right I uh well last night for example I really would've liked to have watched Unsolved Mysteries those are fascinating to me if I have the opportunity I watch it unfortunately I was with someone else who was flipping channels I hate that [speaker001:] oh oh [speaker002:] I do not care a whole lot for some of the contemporary humor [speaker001:] oh right yeah [speaker002:] in our comedy programs although nobody can appreciate comedy any more than I can but I would prefer to find a good comedian on one of the educational channels or one of the older comedians [speaker001:] well we have cable also and and sometimes you can um get the uh HBO specials and sometimes those are really [speaker002:] uh-huh that's right and some of those are fine programs uh-huh [speaker001:] pretty hysterical so I I like to watch comedy I mean you know that's something but I'm not real up to date on what's going on now I I guess I have my old favorites that I [speaker002:] uh-huh I I enjoy comedy um-hum um-hum um-hum [speaker001:] hooked into I mean you know like Bob Newhart still on on one channel and uh you know something on that level I I also enjoy um I don't know its Sunday morning [speaker002:] um-hum I enjoy that um-hum um-hum [speaker001:] it's channel thirteen I watch a lot of thirteen uh The McLaughlin Group and I I just laugh I mean I think it's so hysterical these guys it's just so much fun it's just [speaker002:] um-hum um-hum that's right um-hum [speaker001:] it's just a lot of fun watching that I mean I don't agree with a whole lot of stuff they say but it's fun you know so yeah I watch to be entertained I really do [speaker002:] um-hum right right well yeah I watch it for entertainment but I also watch it for uh cultural impact I do a lot of channel thirteen channel three some of the educational channels and I watch for special programs that have special a special play a special concert uh I recently watched a tribute to three of the finest opera stars [speaker001:] oh now that was fabulous and that you know yeah yeah [speaker002:] uh and it was fabulous I just absolutely you just held you breath in some of those uh Patavani and uh oh I was just [speaker001:] yeah I know so [speaker002:] makes chills all over you so I I may or may not even look at the TV guide but if I have time I may flip through and say hey this looks good if I finish this task I can watch that in an hour uh if the hour comes and I don't get a chance to watch it so what [speaker001:] you know well there's certain things I mean I've got um my TV in the kitchen here and um you know if there's something like cooking shows I love to watch cooking shows [speaker002:] um-hum um-hum I do too it makes me want to cook and then I eat and then I get fat so I just let other people watch when I eat what they cook [speaker001:] I I really do I know I I yeah and and there's some um in fact one of the watercolor shows on now has inspired me to take watercolor lessons you know so [speaker002:] oh I think that's marvelous yeah oh yeah I took a lot of my college courses I took some of my college courses on television so that it's very successful for some of those things but I think I really got stung very badly [speaker001:] you know things like that you you get a whole whole lot of exposure yeah yeah oh [speaker002:] about having influence in your life or at least I've I saw a very bad example of having television influence your life uh my husband had an aunt who was addicted to the soaps and I want you to know that became the most suspicious cantankerous contrary old woman that ever was I mean she [speaker001:] uh-huh she thought she was [speaker002:] absolutely I don't know who she thought she was but she just got to the point where you could might near you could almost hear those soaps being echoed in her voice and that attitude being demonstrated [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] and for her to miss a soap was was a big withdrawal and [speaker001:] oh well see that's you you you but she was probably depressed to begin with you know what I mean yeah grumpy to begin with [speaker002:] well I don't know well she was grumpy to begin with there's no doubt about that but uh but you could clearly see those influences and in my youngsters I know that one day uh my youngsters were watching the Three Stooges and I always thought that was just casual slap stick comedy [speaker001:] yeah I hate that show [speaker002:] but when one tried to lift the other one up with a pipe wrench I decided that wasn't funny anymore [speaker001:] yeah I I good [speaker002:] and I really I really feel very strong about the Bart Simpson Show I think that is the kids watch that and that's absolutely the mouthiest kid that I ever saw and I just I do not like it uh [speaker001:] isn't that amazing how old are your kids [speaker002:] huh mine are grown but I have grandchildren and young children around and uh for a four year old to think Bart Simpson is a hero is tragic [speaker001:] oh okay so that's yeah I had forgotten about that see it's just my husband and I and so I don't have that you know I uh that constant influence of the kids shows and all that but um I don't know [speaker002:] um-hum um-hum um-hum yeah yeah well I was very careful even when my kids were kids were at home and when they were young I really did uh [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] watch what they watched I was cautious I sat down with them and I watched it and if I did not like it I changed the channel for them you know I I you know I distracted them changed their interest [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] because I just couldn't tolerate that kind of influence on my kiddos it just would [speaker001:] and and you know they get it at school too anyway so you might as well not reinforce it you know I [speaker002:] sure that's right that's right gosh they got they're mouthy enough anyway [speaker001:] I know I remember going to school my parents were a lot like that too and of course we did not have any of the variety you know kids have but all the kids used to watch Rawhide and all those shows [speaker002:] um-hum um-hum um-hum [speaker001:] and my parents never let me watch anything like that I could watch Yogi Bear you know what kind of culture was that and I remember going to school the next day and everybody would be asking oh did you see that did you see how he did that and did you see and I could never participate [speaker002:] um-hum yeah well um-hum um-hum [speaker001:] and it always made me feel a little bit you know like a loner like I you know but um [speaker002:] sure I can understand how that would happen [speaker001:] but see then my parents I think then you have to replace it with other things you know to uh [speaker002:] absolutely well I did I ran my kids to death I said hey I think that's enough television for awhile maybe we need to go outside [speaker001:] really yeah [speaker002:] and we need to go out and play and enjoy some company so I'd go out with them now see there's the problem parents don't do that they say you go outside and play [speaker001:] that's true or you go rent a video up at the store and come home and sit down and watch it you know [speaker002:] yeah I said but but we went on field trips and we did other things and I think that was [speaker001:] well that's you know that's something people don't do that well here we are talking on that subject but that's that's an interesting concept I've got to stick in my um you know work with kids on but um [speaker002:] of course

[speaker001:] um let's see so what's wrong with our public school system well I think uh I've been talked into that that one of the main problems is non directive education where you teach kids to basically have a good self image and assume that if they think good about themselves they will they will learn well for example if you deal with uh math scores uh US math scores are um um I don't know seventeenth out of twenty three industrialized nations we're really low I mean I'd be really even surprised if they were that high these are these are scores on standardized tests and yet if you uh give American students the question I am good at math they'll rank themselves much higher than will for example Korean students who do much better at math and um a number of educational theorists uh predominately predominately conservative or they're called conservative because they think this I suppose say that the problem is that we've gotten away too much from teaching the kids the material and too much into let them let letting them discover what they feel or what they want to learn for themselves and that can be seen in you know in math scores it can be seen in sex education where we've had twenty years of generally available sex education in this country at the same time we have a rising crisis of teenage pregnancy uh it can be seen in the fact that students cheat a lot more at least admit to cheating a lot more than they used to they're not told what's right and what's wrong and they're not taught what they needed to be taught the urge they're they're they're taught to discover their own values and their own interest and if you let a kid do that that's the way to get uh you know to get no progress or very little progress [speaker002:] are those are are as you talk about that it reminds me of of one problem that I think is probably as far as my perception is the most glaring error [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] that is because I know a lot of school teachers I know a lot of particularly particularly girls who in like in their their thirties who teach school twenties and thirties and I'm appalled that we have that we pay our teachers so little [speaker001:] um-hum um-hum um-hum um-hum [speaker002:] and we give them so much so such a small budget to work with [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] and with you know with a virtually nonexistent budget they have to supply decoration you know things bulletin boards on the rooms things for the kids to practice on textbooks [speaker001:] yeah yeah yeah [speaker002:] and so so so the pathetic the teachers themselves get a pathetic salary and they end up almost across the board taking some of their own money which they don't have and buying school supplies so that they can they can teach their kids and their dedication astounds me [speaker001:] that's true yeah um-hum [speaker002:] and I [speaker001:] right well [speaker002:] I don't know I don't know if we're getting a quality education from teachers who are underpaid [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] but I'm sure I'm sure that it it's like uh I work at AT&T and now I I if I want to spend four hundred dollars um [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] I don't even have to I don't have to ask anybody I just go do it [speaker001:] hum [speaker002:] that's probably the teacher's entire budget for the year if they're lucky [speaker001:] well I work at NC State University and I do the same thing I spend I spend my own money to buy things that the university you know doesn't provide and I think little things like like transparency pens their transparency pens are pitiful I buy my own um I pay my own way on trips because they don't have any travel budget since nineteen ninety now uh I mean some of it comes from grants but what doesn't come from grants I pay pay for myself and in fact my business deductions are thousands of dollars a year more than the two percent uh limit so so the the the same is true here but you know I I talked talked to one teacher about that at a wedding reception once and I said she said we need more pay I said yeah but but but what you need even more than that is you need more flexibility to do things the way you see that they should be done and she said yeah I agree with that entirely that the bureaucracy really hamstrings teachers um they they they in many places are just told what textbook to teach from whether or not they think it's a good one I mean the decision can be made from a central authority in the state to which is subject to lots of political pressure the teachers don't get to choose themselves what what book to teach uh teach from they go don't get to choose what order to cover things in and they really cannot adapt things to their teaching style in in into their kids uh that is a big problem and I think the large part of that problem is due to the educational bureaucracy here I go you know maligning some some uh uh amorphous much maligned entity but I really think that that's a serious problem that that there's so many layers of administration to make sure that everything's done right that everybody's rights are respected and so forth that there's no flexibility down at the at the at the bottom level and that's what the teachers have to deal with and and by the way that's another reason that their pay is so low because the administrators soak up so much of the budget [speaker002:] yeah I think so I for example they will have a a million dollar building [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] but no no money for supplies [speaker001:] yeah yeah well I think that that one way to solve the problem I mean I I you know if anything doesn't work right introduce competition and the the voucher approach approach to um to to to paying for

[speaker001:] what kind of fishing do you enjoy [speaker002:] well uh normally I like to to go out fishing in a boat and uh rather than like bank fishing and just like you try and catch anything that's swimming because I've had such problems of trying to catch any type of fish that uh I just really enjoy doing the boat type fishing [speaker001:] so you like fresh water [speaker002:] uh-huh uh-huh I've never tried like with deep uh sea water fishing [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] because you get I get sea sick but one of these days I'm going hoping they'll have some kind of medicine so I can go out and go uh deep sea fishing now that would be nice [speaker001:] oh I see well I was raised on the Texas Gulf Coast in the summers and during the Christmas holidays we'd go down to our house on the coast [speaker002:] have you uh um-hum [speaker001:] and so I thought fish came out of the ocean [speaker002:] oh my goodness [speaker001:] and anything that was fresh water was muddy [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] so I didn't learn to fish in a lake until I was well into my twenties [speaker002:] wow [speaker001:] so I had I had always been a a sea fisher type which is a lot of fun [speaker002:] um-hum um-hum oh I bet it is [speaker001:] there's so many different ways to catch fish you know at night you can [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] go walking in the shallows and gig flounder and things like that which isn't technically fishing but it's a lot of fun [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] so I I grew up fishing [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] what area lakes do you like [speaker002:] well uh now I haven't done much fishing here in Texas uh because I moved from Ohio [speaker001:] oh I see [speaker002:] uh but uh we did a lot of fishing when we were up there but down here I have a brother that likes to go over on the east in East Texas and do fishing and I can't remember what the name of the lake is and he was just here this past weekend I could have I I think he mentioned it again but I couldn't remember what it was um I want to call it Salt Fork or Lake Fork I I can't remember but he said it's one of the best bass fishing places [speaker001:] oh oh oh uh I think I know where uh Lake Caddo or something like that [speaker002:] I you know that may be it that may be it and it [speaker001:] if it's supposed to be one of the best bass fishing places they hold tournaments there and everything [speaker002:] yeah yeah yeah and he said that he has never gone anywhere before and he's fished all over the United States in which they can catch the biggest bass that you've ever seen so I would love to go over there they were talking about going over there and some time this spring and I was thinking it would be great to go over there to go fishing and uh and catch some bass [speaker001:] I would love to do that but they have snakes over there and I'm not too welcome around I don't I really don't want to share a boat with a snake [speaker002:] uh-huh uh-huh [speaker001:] I just I I I don't see it [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] I just I don't I think that I perhaps would let them have the boat or something I'd make some quick arrangements [speaker002:] that's true [speaker001:] and I've heard so many stories about the snakes [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] you know when they pull in there's a snake instead of a fish and things like that that I'm just [speaker002:] yeah oh [speaker001:] I don't know what's the largest fish you ever caught [speaker002:] yeah um gosh I think it was only like three and a half pounds and for me that's big that's why I'm saying I love to go fishing because I've never caught anything really really big um so because it's always been you know in the on a lake and uh I know they have bigger fish than that but you know three and a half pounds and that was huge for me [speaker001:] on a lake yeah on a lake on a lake that's not a bad size fish [speaker002:] yeah no that's a good size fish [speaker001:] I I would be impressed I mean you know [speaker002:] yeah yeah so uh but yeah I'd love to go catch catch like the Marlins or whatever in the deep sea fishing [speaker001:] I've never done that [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] I've I've seen it uh and and I have no problem going out in a boat uh it's just so dreadfully expensive and there's just so many other ways you know when you live down there [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] it's not a treat [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] it's what you do every day you know [speaker002:] that's right that's right [speaker001:] uh one of my favorite things was we were forever catching crab and steaming them [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] you know out on the on the beach [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] and you know just uh pitching them out on uh on uh what am I trying to say newspaper [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] and and breaking them up and sitting out there and eating them and then digging a hole and pitching the whole thing in it you know and and that's it [speaker002:] wow uh-huh yeah [speaker001:] and uh the the other little creatures would take care of what was left [speaker002:] that's right that's right [speaker001:] so going out on a boat never did appeal to me simply because it you know there was so much else to do [speaker002:] right right well do you live like along uh Houston [speaker001:] no [speaker002:] down there [speaker001:] no no I live in Dallas [speaker002:] well I meant when when you were when you were growing up I mean like Galveston [speaker001:] I lived in Dallas [speaker002:] oh okay but you uh [speaker001:] we had a house in Port Aransas [speaker002:] oh okay okay [speaker001:] it's a little fishing village that is [speaker002:] that's close to uh South Padre oh Corpus okay [speaker001:] corpus well uh South Padre is on down the bend [speaker002:] okay okay [speaker001:] it's like if you drew a line from Austin straight down it would be in that region [speaker002:] um-hum um-hum [speaker001:] small island [speaker002:] yeah yeah I I've been to Port Aransas but it was when I was a child [speaker001:] uh oh okay [speaker002:] yes because I have relatives who live in Houston so when would go and we would go to Port Aransas or then on down to Corpus or further yeah like what your talking about because I was just wondering we went to Galveston this this summer even with all the oil spills and everything I mean I was [speaker001:] was it bad [speaker002:] oh it was horrible I well never ever go back I don't think uh and yeah and that that's true um [speaker001:] oh I hate to hear that [speaker002:] uh you know the the water was murky and I would hate to think about catching fish or anything there [speaker001:] huh-uh [speaker002:] huh-uh no I wouldn't want to eat them you know so yeah [speaker001:] no no no you went to Galveston uh I have a favorite hotel that extends out over the water [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] the uh what is it the Flagship [speaker002:] yes uh-huh [speaker001:] is it still there [speaker002:] it sure is yeah yeah it most certainly is so uh so that it it was it was certain things that were enjoyable about it but uh I don't I think it's lost a lot of it's appeal [speaker001:] I like that place [speaker002:] that then because of all the oil spills that they have had and uh it always smelled the entire time we were there it was [speaker001:] I didn't realize that had happened for some reason [speaker002:] yeah we went swimming one time in the whole week that we were there and the rest of the time we stayed in the pool because the water was so awful and [speaker001:] well of course being raised on the water I'd never swim in it [speaker002:] yeah yeah [speaker001:] huh-uh swimming is for swimming [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] pool that's why they call them swimming pools [speaker002:] uh-huh uh-huh [speaker001:] that's where you swim you do not swim in the ocean [speaker002:] no no not anymore [speaker001:] no I've seen what comes out of the ocean and I have no desire to share any space with anything like that but really huge sharks are down there I mean [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] incredibly large sharks [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] uh some of the young dread naughty boys in my family would fish for them all night [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] it was incredible the size of them that we would see on the the next morning they would have them strung up across the [speaker002:] wow uh-huh [speaker001:] and it you know so if strung up their tails would still hang on the bottom of the uh just [speaker002:] wow wow yeah now I never knew they were that that big huh [speaker001:] kind of kind of nothing I won't have anything to do with [speaker002:] yeah yeah right well it was nice talking to you [speaker001:] well it certainly was um maybe you can get how many have you had very many of these calls [speaker002:] um yeah almost everyday [speaker001:] how wonderful [speaker002:] yeah almost almost every single day from when they started it [speaker001:] how wonderful [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] maybe I'll be so lucky okay I enjoyed talking to you [speaker002:] okay bye-bye [speaker001:] bye-bye

[speaker001:] um like I say I'm a I'm a uh a sort of an addict for uh current events and news so I read the paper almost everyday and um I also generally watch one of the national news casts [speaker002:] yeah I keep up with most of my stuff either by the news I don't get to read the paper everyday because I just don't have enough time but I read it on Sundays and then I always listen to the like six o'clock or ten o'clock news and then listen to the radio [speaker001:] uh my main problem is that um I I like to follow the national news [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] so I'm I'm really not very happy with local news cast and I'm uh I don't like the local paper paper very much either [speaker002:] well [speaker001:] especially since we don't have a choice anymore since Dallas lost its one paper that I [speaker002:] that's true [speaker001:] um um I usually read the front page and then the editorial page and uh I'm finding that I spend less and less time on the editorial page because the selection is so bad [speaker002:] yeah what about USA Today do you read that one [speaker001:] no uh I used to [speaker002:] nope [speaker001:] uh uh the New York Times is my favorite newspaper that's what I grew up with but uh I don't spend the money on it because I know I only get to spend five or ten minutes on it and have to [speaker002:] it's not worth it [speaker001:] uh let it pile up [speaker002:] I like um USA Today [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] because I mean it's not real thick but it gets most of the stuff in there that's current and going on [speaker001:] does it have editorial writers [speaker002:] um yeah [speaker001:] who are some of them [speaker002:] now that got got me I mean I don't read it everyday like whenever we're on vacation or whenever I go on vacation or whatever I I get to keep up with it but that's like what once or twice a year [speaker001:] can you I wonder if they use their uh the same ones all the time or if they just grab uh the best of the Washington Post and the New York Times and they probably have a few syndicated columnists that they rotate [speaker002:] I think well I mean I don't know you know I really have never paid that much attention to that [speaker001:] that's that's what the Dallas Morning News does and they they they seem to select select them kind of irregularly and I um I don't think they do a very good job myself [speaker002:] yeah do you read the paper everyday [speaker001:] pretty much I guess I like I said I read the headlines and then I read the editorial page and then I check the uh local news that's the only thing I really rely on the paper for is the local news [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] but um I I'm finding that McNeal Lehrer uh news hour is the TV program that I I like to watch the most they because they they don't give you these thirty seconds short shots of twenty different stories they usually spend about fifteen minutes or ten minutes on the story [speaker002:] oh really [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] now um when does that come on [speaker001:] ten o'clock well it's actually it's on a couple of times it's on channel two at seven I think and it's on channel thirteen at uh ten o'clock usually [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] so I try to watch that from ten to eleven unless unless something else is going on [speaker002:] the radio station that I listen to in the morning I mean they're they're real good about going over like what's going and I mean they talk about it like some of this like the major events that are going on [speaker001:] you ever listen to the public radio station [speaker002:] um no no well I mean I may've just flipped through it why [speaker001:] KERA they're quite yeah they're quite good uh yeah I like them very much [speaker002:] oh really [speaker001:] that's that's what I tune to regularly um KRLD if I need to know what the traffic's like [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] so [speaker002:] no the Eagle usually I mean they'll can tell you pretty much they go over the stuff they have a newscaster on there and they go I mean it's short and sweet but I mean they keep you up to date on stuff [speaker001:] you spend a lot of time driving [speaker002:] yeah well yeah well I mean I always listen to the radio or the TV whenever I'm getting ready in the morning [speaker001:] yeah yeah I'm always listening to the news um when I drive but I don't drive I mean I my commute is only about five minutes so I I don't have to uh spend a lot of time in the car if I did I guess I would rely more on the radio more than I do on the TV [speaker002:] see you have a shorter commute so that's why you get to stay home and read the paper in the morning me I just have to rely on the TV or the um the newspaper I mean the or the [speaker001:] right right yeah [speaker002:] radio station [speaker001:] yeah I I find that most of the TV coverage is too short and superficial so that's one one reason you have to have a newspaper so you can read something in depth [speaker002:] yeah well I used to work I worked for a newspaper for six and a half years [speaker001:] they did where [speaker002:] uh in well in Nacogdoches Texas which is real small town [speaker001:] oh uh-huh I know where it is yeah uh-huh [speaker002:] and oh really well um it was family owned and everything so we didn't like the the way a lot of the stuff was run there [speaker001:] was it a weekly [speaker002:] daily um-hum [speaker001:] daily oh I wouldn't think a size town that size would have a daily newspaper [speaker002:] yep [speaker001:] huh [speaker002:] but they got bought out by Cox [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] so now a lot of things have changed or whatever [speaker001:] is it still a daily [speaker002:] yep [speaker001:] yeah is that where you grew up [speaker002:] yes actually [speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh well that's surprising surprising there was a a daily newspaper at a town that small [speaker002:] yeah like I said it was family owned and they pretty much I mean they were in the I mean well they put in there what they published what they wanted to publish and stuff they didn't want to publish [speaker001:] yeah

[speaker001:] so what kind of hobbies you have [speaker002:] well the primary thing that I do uh is go around and uh collect uh collectibles that are purchase collectibles and uh and some antiques uh go to a lot of garage sales and estate sales [speaker001:] uh-huh hm [speaker002:] and collect signatures [speaker001:] signatures like uh like important people I guess [speaker002:] uh yeah uh important people um oh some are just uh sports fans [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] uh I had I land like aviation so I've got a number of them from uh uh like the Wright brothers uh uh Chuck Yeager um Charles Lindburgh things like that [speaker001:] hm that's pretty neat yeah most of my hobbies are uh I guess I uh I like cars I work on I like to work on my car and uh yes since I have an old car [speaker002:] yeah oh do you what do you have [speaker001:] I have a I have a Honda it's an eighty three Honda this car's not too bad I don't have to work on it as much but I've before this I had a Toyota Corona I don't know if you ever heard of those cars but uh [speaker002:] yeah sure [speaker001:] I had the car it's an eighty one Toyota Corona I must've worked on it like every third day I had it I had a I had a problem with the uh with the radiator [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] uh the car basically would overheat I mean I I lived used to live in Washington DC and didn't have any problems when I lived up there but soon as I came down here the heat was must must've been too intense for the car so the car kept overheating and turned out it was some kind of a problem with the radiator [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] so I had the radiator replaced and they did everything they could possibly do they said there was some kind of problem they just couldn't figure out what it was and the Toyota dealer couldn't figure it out the radiator place couldn't figure it out so basically I had to keep adding water to the radiator every uh every couple days [speaker002:] oh jeez [speaker001:] you know and what you had to do is you had to start it up let it get hot let it suck the radiator fluid into the engine then add more water to it then shut it and then you could run another three days [speaker002:] well that sounds like fun [speaker001:] oh yeah let me tell you I mean it's it was bad when it was in the winter time you had to do this too you know [speaker002:] hm yeah oh yeah [speaker001:] so uh [speaker002:] no as a matter of fact I've been uh seriously considering uh restoring a car [speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh [speaker002:] um I was looking at a Nash Metropolitan I don't know if you know what those are [speaker001:] no huh-uh [speaker002:] uh they're little two tone uh cars that came out in [speaker001:] oh is it like a mini car [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] my my parents' next door neighbor have one of those [speaker002:] fifty really [speaker001:] they uh it um I think his wife won it in some kind of contest and he just uh it looks almost like a fake car because it's so small it's you know and it's it's in perfect shape [speaker002:] huh yeah yeah [speaker001:] and uh he just kind of pulls it out every so often cleans it up puts it back in the garage [speaker002:] does he wanna sell it [speaker001:] yeah really but uh it's it's really a neat looking car though and uh [speaker002:] oh yeah now I'm I've been trying to find one that's uh uh I was I was looking at getting one of those and trying to restore it [speaker001:] yeah um-hum um-hum um that's kind of kind of cool [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] and the other hobby I have is uh I guess I play uh like the racket sports you know racquetball and tennis and I love to play that [speaker002:] yeah oh both of them [speaker001:] yeah um-hum [speaker002:] because most of the folks that I found and I I used to play a lot of tennis then when I started playing racquetball uh by the time I finally got a swing down for racquetball I I found out I couldn't play tennis anymore [speaker001:] uh-huh um-hum uh-huh well what I did was I played tennis for a long time then hadn't played for a long time then I started pay playing racquetball again [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] and uh when I got really good at racquetball then I waited a while and I went back to tennis and so now when I'm back to either one of the sports you know since I since the gap was so far apart between the two I think that I get back to tennis soon as I pick up a tennis racket I'm I'm back into the swing [speaker002:] yeah oh good [speaker001:] and soon as I pick up a racquetball racket I'm back it takes me a little while to to get as good you know uh I usually need you know at least a good hour warm-up before I'm I'm back into the swing [speaker002:] yeah yeah [speaker001:] but uh once I'm back in it you know it's pretty good [speaker002:] well it's tough to those ceiling shots on a tennis court [speaker001:] oh yeah that's definite yeah you don't it I have to really think about the uh the ceiling shots and the side wall shots you know [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] uh and that's probably it probably puts more pressure on my brain than it does in my on my body [speaker002:] I tell you I really like uh racquetball [speaker001:] it's a great sport see it's aerobic and uh and if you play with someone uh you got to play with someone who's as good as you are you know not better or not and not worse [speaker002:] yeah yeah yeah [speaker001:] because if you play I used to play with uh my roommate and uh from college and we uh we were both about the same as far as you know how good we both were you know and we'd have volleys that would last five or six minutes you know [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] and uh it does I mean we weren't like the best players in the world but we you know we we couldn't get it past each other you know [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] and uh I used to work out to play racquetball three or four times a week and I tell you by the end of the summer I was in perfect shape you know [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] so it's it's a great sport great aerobic sport [speaker002:] I like it better than uh tennis just because I don't have to go so far to get the ball [speaker001:] well the only reason I like it better than tennis is I used to play tennis with my dad and he plays uh old man tennis you know he could hit puts underspin on the ball all the time and he can hit every ball okay but he doesn't hit it hard he just hits it really lightly you know makes you run all over the place [speaker002:] yeah uh-huh so who [speaker001:] and it just kind of drives me up the wall

[speaker001:] personal computers are are nice I guess if you can afford them the the problem if you happen to use one at work is you tend to get spoiled with the uh maybe a higher grade one maybe the the economics and the payback of having one at a business is a little bit better than having one at home and I've read a few articles that uh where people have nice uh three eighty six machines and nice graphics and the nice software packages and then when they come home they they just can't stand to come down to the X T level and and don't like the the slowness or the in some cases not even having a hard drive and that's pretty much where I fall into I use a a relatively nice array of machines at work for scientific purposes and I have a variety of of uh speeds and complexity of machines depending upon the instrument that it's controlling and then I have one that I do just general purpose work on and then for the house I don't have anything uh not that I wouldn't want one but I would probably not be satisfied with anything less than a really nice one and that's that's a quite an expense and then all the software tends to be uh commercial grade it's all where I guess you know to get something like WordPerfect you're looking at uh five hundred dollars worth or so and some of the accounting packages or the the nicer spreadsheets are somewhat expensive and I don't know it's it's quite a a expense or a luxury for the house I guess and there's not a whole lot I would do other than some word processing I I got a a number of things that I could could be doing on a PC instead of here instead of doing them at the home at work they're for the house but I do them on occasion at work and it's nice to uh it would be nice to have one I guess what do you think [speaker002:] I share your your uh sense when you change job to work or job to home uh the way your your image of the machine changes I tend to do slightly different things at home than I do at work um I use One Two Three a lot the Lotus product as a spreadsheet and I have I use a uh [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] what you see is what you get editor for almost all of my word processing so I have not although I have access at home to things like Works and WordPerfect uh but I I do not obviously notice it I I think the thing that surprises me most when I change work to home environment is the cursor speed and after I if initially get over the uh the cursor speed in the sense of moving linearly across the screen uh as opposed to tabbing [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] uh I'm a touch typer and I haven't ever really noticed uh differences uh the machine tends to react as fast as I can I use an eighty as a matter of fact use an eighty eighty eight at at home uh which is really old iron uh probably ten years or so and and at the office uh I am indeed using a three eighty six um I use a PC for a great deal of things in in private life uh I'm a church treasurer [speaker001:] um [speaker002:] and I use the machine a lot on a uh uh data base and financial package that that operates at the church office I do some uh volunteer work at home using uh a buttons PC file program that uh is a very simplistic relational data base for labels and things so I guess I would have to say on a home setting I'm probably on the personal computer as much as an hour a day on average at home [speaker001:] um well that's good [speaker002:] um except I don't have a concern too much about the speed however because most of the applications I find are as fast as I am if not more so and I tend to notice it more when it comes down to an issue of peripherals uh at work I'm used to various batch printing capabilities and uh pretty high-speed output either laser printer uh [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] or uh machines like uh IBM thirty eight twenty high speed uh APA printers and so I get frustrated uh watching things slowly come out upon my matrix printer more so than I do over over access speed um [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] I guess that I have gotten to the point where if if I didn't have the personal computer I would be impacted a great deal on the things that I do in my life I'm I'm sure I would probably find ways to return to what I was doing in nineteen eighty one when I got my first home computer but it it would be I think a dramatic a dramatic sense of loss on on some items [speaker001:] on your editor do you do uh does it do spell correcting or any kind of thesaurus work [speaker002:] uh no I have access to uh spell correction uh material I seldom I seldom use it although when I'm at the office and I'm producing work correspondence uh I I run about ninety per cent of my office work on a mainframe [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] uh I I execute on a three eighty six machine that is attached to the mainframe as a server as a intelligent work station but I use it [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] frequently as a dumbhead to get to the mainframe and and there I tend on almost all of my editing and stuff to to be using some fairly powerful [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] editors and word processors and and wordproof but surprisingly at home and I seldom ever bother uh or worry about it too much uh I guess ultimately I'm not a a horribly bad speller although I have a tendency to lisp when I type so to speak uh nothing that that's particularly horrible and I think most of the work word processing I do since it's somewhat of a personal nature I've probably don't have a sense of vulnerability in this in in the even that I were to send to to send a a misspelled word out the way one might have at the office place [speaker001:] right well I tend to that's one thing I notice the speed difference in when I have a darc document that's maybe twenty or thirty pages long and I want to [speaker002:] uh [speaker001:] search through it for the spelling it takes forever on an old uh X T at at four point seven seven megahertz you know the the old old ones and we're looking at uh several minutes worth of time for it to go through and check everything as opposed to a three eighty six where I can just you know it flashes through there and then even just file copying I I do some of that every once in awhile and you know if you had thirty or forty files to copy from one place to another and you're maybe reorganizing some places on the hard drive I have an X T at work oh excuse me I have an X T at work that takes forever to copy and then I have a three eighty six that just you know they're they're gone they're just over there right away [speaker002:] okay [speaker001:] and little things like that I I've noticed the speed difference in and I do some graphics uh I haven't done any well I've done a little bit for the for the house at work but uh if I were to bring it home uh or have a machine at home I would like to be able to put together small uh brochure type things with the the front page being a little little bit of graphics and the inside being printed in a uh what I would call a booklet form there are some editors that will produce uh the you know print it sideways and and collate it in such a way that this page comes out right so that you can fold all these eight and a half by elevens and make a little booklet and [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] my I've done that on occasion at at work and my wife does some uh teaching you know little bitty weekend type teaching for some women in the area and and she likes to work up little outlines and things in this format and so I do all the work for her at work and it would really be nice to be able to do it here and say is this what you want you know instead of going back and forth every day it takes us a little while to get it right but uh I don't know maybe someday we'll uh get around to getting something decent uh [speaker002:] that's that's an interesting point I think a the more I as I've thought about [speaker001:] to bring home [speaker002:] our conversation I realize that one of the things that perhaps causes me not to get a jarring difference between the two locations is that at the office I'm doing work things that in some ways are dissimilar from what I do at home uh and as a result I don't get the comparative feel uh I suspect if I were coming home and trying to do some of the projects I do at the office I would go crazy on my on my machine uh I haven't tended to play the games and and uh do the applications at work that I do at home so I probably have never been in [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] noticed how wonderful it might be uh I suspect Lotus One Two Three and spreadsheet application might be the one common thread um and there I think that even though I'm on an eighty eighty eight at home that the speed is really quite adequate uh and and I consequently don't even really notice uh the the difference between the the fast machine and and the eighty eighty eight [speaker001:] uh-huh yeah unless they're tremendously large they're not going to make that much difference [speaker002:] right right I I do have some uh retirement modeling that I've done at home that uh tends to crawl uh which on which I've just turned the calculation off in between and a couple of models that I've [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] built uh for for school purposes that I start in the evening and then go to bed and get them the next morning but they would have run an hour and a half even on a thirty three eighty six machine I imagine so [speaker001:] um [speaker002:] I suspect that what happens is that uh you get to the point where it's so long that uh from a human being perspective there's not much difference between six hours and an hour and a half [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] um [speaker001:] that's interesting I hadn't I hadn't run into anything quite that long or fortunately there

[speaker001:] So, the topic is vacations? [speaker002:] Alright, that's a good, that's a good topic, huh? [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] I think so. I enjoy them. [speaker002:] Where did you go on your last vacation? [speaker001:] Uh, the last was back down to Lubbock to visit parents. It was, [speaker002:] What? [speaker001:] The last one was back down to Lubbock, Texas, [speaker002:] Uh-huh, yeah. [speaker001:] to visit family. [speaker002:] Uh. [speaker001:] But that's not the tradition for us. [speaker002:] Oh, yeah. What's your out of the, out of the state type, where do you like to go? [speaker001:] Uh, we enjoyed Yellow Stone real well last year. [speaker002:] Really? [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] What kind of, uh, vacation spots are there in Colorado? [speaker001:] Oh, Rocky Mountain National Park. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] It's, it's just like any of the other national parks. It, you know, there's camping and fishing and hiking and wildlife watching and, [speaker002:] I think my parents took me there when I was real young. We went to Colorado Springs and, uh, Rocky Mountain National Park. It was real pretty. [speaker001:] Oh, it's, [speaker002:] Got to see Pike's Peak. [speaker001:] Yeah, we usually try and drive up there, oh, once every year or two. [speaker002:] You drive by yourself up there? [speaker001:] Sure. [speaker002:] Oh, wow. [speaker001:] To the top the of the peak, sure. [speaker002:] Oh, that's tough. I don't, I don't think I could do that [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Oh, it's not bad at all. It's, it's a beautiful drive. [speaker002:] Oh. [speaker001:] Now I admit up there, the altitude is kind of [pause] interesting, [speaker002:] Yeah, yeah. [speaker001:] You know you get a little lightheaded and giddy, but it's fun. You know, take along a picnic lunch and, [speaker002:] Sure is pretty up there. [speaker001:] Oh, we love it. [speaker002:] You have mountains all around you? [speaker001:] Uh, no, they're only to the east, uh, I mean to the west of us. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] Here in the Springs, you know, it's right there at the very foot of the Rockies. You know, and once a week we drive up into the mountains, usually, you know, usually once a week, once every other week. [speaker002:] Wow, that's neat. I'm jealous [LAUGHTER]. There's hills in Texas. [speaker001:] Yeah, well, I enjoy hills, in Texas too. I've been in Sherman. [speaker002:] Have you ever been out of the United States for, uh, vacation? [speaker001:] No, I haven't, you? [speaker002:] Or business? [speaker001:] Uh, once to Mexico City, but just a little day thing on business. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. I went to, uh, the Bahamas last year, on a cruise for my honeymoon. [speaker001:] Uh, that's nice. [speaker002:] It was really neat, I had never been out of, really, out of Texas or out of Indiana much, out of the United States. I'm from Indiana so, [speaker001:] Did you enjoy it? [speaker002:] What? [speaker001:] Did you enjoy it? [speaker002:] Yeah, it was great. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] It was really pretty down there. [speaker001:] Uh, got to eat some different kinds of foods and meet people from a different culture and, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. Yeah, really did. There, in fact, one, uh, family that [pause] sat at our table every meal was from London, [speaker001:] Oh. [speaker002:] and they had never been to the United States, so they were really enjoying it and they were telling us about all their trips. [speaker001:] Huh. [speaker002:] They had been to Disneyland, and it was neat to meet different people. [speaker001:] So the place that I went, that we've gone on vacation that I think I enjoyed the most, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] was Seattle. [speaker002:] Oh, really? I've heard it's really pretty up there. [speaker001:] Well, we, uh, was, two years ago, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] we went during the drought. [speaker002:] Oh. [speaker001:] I'm sorry, three years ago. It had been dry for a whole week. [speaker002:] Oh, wow. [speaker001:] It didn't rain for a whole week. [speaker002:] Yeah [LAUGHTER], that would have been nice. That would have been best time to go. [speaker001:] Yeah, somehow we picked the right time and, uh, walked down on the wharf, and I think we ate seafood every meal for, well, not quite every meal, but most meals for a week. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] Uh, it was wonderful. Uh, the Pacific Science Museum, the little girl really enjoyed. It's [pause] very interesting. [speaker002:] Pacific Science? [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] Really? [speaker001:] Yes. It was, it was super, and, uh, went to the Seattle Aquarium. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] And it's right down there, on the, right there on the ocean, and [pause] down there on the wharf by the piers and all, and you walk down in a dome, a glass dome, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] and the bay is circulating over your head, and you, [speaker002:] Oh, wow. [speaker001:] and you can watch the fish swim by and sharks and oh it's, [speaker002:] Oh, neat. [speaker001:] Yeah, and then there's walrus and sea lion and porpoises, and oh, it's, [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] it's amazing. [speaker002:] That's the vacation you recommend, huh? [speaker001:] Oh, absolutely. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] Without a doubt. Seattle is beautiful, and the mountains, [speaker002:] Yeah, I've heard it is. [speaker001:] the mountains to the east of Seattle, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] are just incredible. [speaker002:] Really? [speaker001:] I rode a ferry for the first time in my life. [speaker002:] Oh, wow. [speaker001:] You know, up there, [pause] you go from the mainland to a whole bunch of islands around there by ferry, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] Instead of by bridge. And you drive your car on. You park your car, you set your brake. You walk upstairs and you have a beer, [speaker002:] Oh. [speaker001:] or coffee, or whatever, depending on the time of day. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] It's amazing. [speaker002:] And your car is on a ferry? [speaker001:] Yes. [speaker002:] And it goes across with you? [speaker001:] Yes. [speaker002:] That's really neat. [speaker001:] Yeah, yeah. And there are people, literally that everyday, take the ferry, you know, and drive, [speaker002:] To work? [speaker001:] on to it, yeah, live on an island off, off shore from Seattle. [speaker002:] That's really wild. [speaker001:] And, you, uh, everyday they drive on the ferry. They go upstairs and have their morning coffee. [speaker002:] Huh. [speaker001:] Take, for the twenty to, hour and ten minutes that it takes to get across and, you know, depending on where it is. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] Hour and ten minutes? [speaker001:] Well, in some places, you know, [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] in some areas, you know, depends on how far they are commuting. [speaker002:] That's really interesting. [speaker001:] Oh, it, it's strict, I'm, I'm a West Texan. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] Out there in the land of no water. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] And, to think that people live on the water daily, is kind of odd to me. You know, it's, it's a different life style than we are used to. [speaker002:] Yeah, it is. I've been wanting to go to the West Texas, and see different parts of Texas, because I haven't lived here very long, and I haven't really seen much. So what are some good things in Texas to go visit? [speaker001:] Oh, Galveston. [speaker002:] Galveston? [speaker001:] Yes, I liked Galveston real well, uh, [pause] there's, uh, one of the areas down there close to Galveston is, I forget the name of the island, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] but it's a bird sanctuary, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] with all kinds of wild birds. Whooping and sand hill cranes, and ducks and pelicans and it's very pretty. Uh, I like the Rio Grande Valley. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] Real well. Of course, you haven't lived until you have been to San Antone, to the, [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] to the Alamo. [speaker002:] Boardwalk and all that. [speaker001:] Yeah, the river walk. Oh, it's, [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] And you need to go in the Spring when all the flowers are in bloom all up and down through there. Oh, it's just simply beautiful. [speaker002:] I've heard it's really pretty. [speaker001:] And, of course, always when I lived in West Texas, had to annually go down to San Antone just, [speaker002:] Really? [speaker001:] Yeah, and go to, uh, Lone Star, and uh, you know make my annual pilgrimage to the Lone Star Brewery, and. *should be slash unit [speaker002:] Yeah [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Uh, El Paso is kind of neat in kind of a funny way. *should be slash unit You know, go across the border and all. Uh, the Davis Mountains are interesting, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] out there in West Texas. [speaker002:] Down by Big Bend? [speaker001:] Yeah, yeah. Uh, now the right time of year to go there is in the middle of winter, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] because, [pause] there's a beauty to the desert that it can most be, it can best be appreciated when you are not burning up. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] You know, whenever you've been kind of cold where you are at. It's most enjoyable, [speaker002:] Um. [speaker001:] to get, you know, to get warm. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] That's nice, uh, down there, in the lower Rio Grande Valley closer to where the Rio Grande empties into the Gulf, that's interesting. I love the Texas Hill Country. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] And, uh, Austin is neat for, for an occasional visit. [speaker002:] I've heard to go to Austin too. A lot people say to go down there. [speaker001:] Yeah, yeah it's a fun few days. Uh, [speaker002:] What's there to see in Austin? [speaker001:] Oh, U T is real pretty. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] Uh, there's a lot of little limestone lakes and caverns around that area, Marble Falls and all. That's real pretty. Uh, [ringing] I would say definitely go see that part and, uh, I'd say go to, uh, Midland once, just for the heck of it. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] I don't know why, exactly. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] But, uh, you know, find out when they are holding [pause] the petroleum fair, uh,

[speaker001:] that's it [speaker002:] yes [speaker001:] what do you think are possible changes in the uh the way trials are conducted these days do you like the way some people in there for instance really take over and uh we have no way of knowing whether they're legitimately right or wrong so forth [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] what do you think about these things [speaker002:] well as I look at our trial systems I think they've gotten to be quite a joke the way that people can appeal and file for mistrials and they've taken a lot of the things that that were set up to make it be a fair system and used it to their advantage I think that a jury should listen to the court uh to to the hearings and to everything but I think they should only weigh fifty percent of the decision I think the judge should hold the fifty or maybe even forty nine and the judge should be able to rule one way or the other [speaker001:] you you're so you're saying you you think the judge should actually have the final say [speaker002:] I think he should and I think that there should be more than one judge there should be maybe two at least that sit in and listen so that there's no way that you could have [speaker001:] hum [speaker002:] like a crooked judge do you know what I mean [speaker001:] yes I know what you mean [speaker002:] um and I think that there it's important to have a jury but I think the way that they go through so much time to get a a fair one that's okay too as long as it's not used to delay the trial so much they need to have a fair jury but they only would you know would cover fifty forty nine percent of the decision or fifty percent and then the two judges would go ahead and make the final decision [speaker001:] well [speaker002:] how do you feel about that [speaker001:] I hadn't uh thought of it from that point of view before I have been in a fairly important trial and uh what bothers me is I was concerned of the ability of some of the people in the jury to adequately understand [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] what was being presented so that they themselves could make a proper and uh accurate decision that's the part that bothered me about it um I really think that the the the jury ought to have more say so in the selection or in the determination of whether they're guilty or not but I also think that the jury should be uh very very uh carefully more carefully selected to make sure that they are entirely intelligent intelligent people and that they understand some of the details that are involved so that they can make accurate accurate decisions [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] I hate to see people brought in who basically have lived out in the country and don't know much about any of this stuff and and they just make a decision based on whether they like the dress she wore that day or whether that guy smiled or growled all the time that's no way to make a decision on some terrible problem [speaker002:] right right well what if they used you know I just had a thought come as you were talking what if they used law students and had that be credit hours to sit in trials [speaker001:] that would be certainly nice shit let's say we we would have fifty percent of them law students at any rate yeah yeah [speaker002:] yeah at least at least on the jury and that would give them experience in the courtroom and it could count as some aspect or hours going into their major [speaker001:] um-hum that's a very neat idea and they would learn a lot about being lawyers later in life when they see what it is like to be in the jury side of a trial [speaker002:] right that's right that would be a really good thing to do [speaker001:] that would be a a really good thing to do [speaker002:] I I have a girlfriend that just went through a three year trial [speaker001:] so that's hum [speaker002:] and what happened was her husband was um involved in a motorcycle accident where a drunk driver ran the stop light and ran into the motorcycle [speaker001:] um [speaker002:] but the reason the actual reason that the motorcycle person her husband was killed was because his brakes went out on his motorcycle he was just taking it home from the place it was brand new and his brakes did not work [speaker001:] for goodness sakes [speaker002:] and this expensive big company that owned these motorcycles um railroaded this into three years worth of trials for this lady and she had a son that was just only two years old when it happened [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] and they were following him home in the car saw the whole thing happen [speaker001:] oh they saw the husband get [speaker002:] that's right they were following him home from the motorcycle shop [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] and they railroaded this whole trial into mistrials um this and that and the other every time she'd get a verdict that would be in her favor of a of a settlement [speaker001:] they'd find something wrong with it [speaker002:] until finally they won and said that it was the drunk driver's fault and she would have to sue him [speaker001:] did they really uh-huh [speaker002:] which I would think it would be some his fault but I just felt like justice wasn't served because they had the money the big lawyers and she didn't [speaker001:] that is a shame you'd think there would be enough uh people who saw the accident other than his wife [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] to to also uh make statements and they have nothing to gain one way or the other so if they say a certain way then why not believe them [speaker002:] right and I don't know all the details on that but I certainly think that we've come up with a good idea with the the student the students coming into the jury [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] and I don't think that it would be such a bad idea even if the judge didn't have the final say [speaker001:] um-hum

[speaker001:] have you had any thoughts on this [speaker002:] well not really uh I uh am of an age where I could have very well served in the military during the Vietnam era and I did not [speaker001:] um-hum how old are you if I can ask [speaker002:] huh do what [speaker001:] how old are you [speaker002:] I'm will be forty nine in August [speaker001:] okay so we're about the same age [speaker002:] right uh during that time I was in college and uh and also had some minor health problems that did keep me out of the out of the military or or help to keep me out anyway [speaker001:] um-hum um-hum [speaker002:] but uh I'm not opposed to military service at all [speaker001:] yeah I think this is also a a broader scope I think uh they're talking about uh just service in general and um [speaker002:] uh yeah [speaker001:] I I did a lot of this sort of thing in in college in the summers um I worked uh in uh Mexico doing community service for uh for two summers while I was in college and you know it was an incredibly worthwhile experience [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] so in theory I'm am favor of this but on the other hand I'm an economist and uh just like uh well the military has a tremendous uh you know responsibility for security and everything but there's also an equally tremendous budget so I guess on the other hand as as as as good as this idea is it's got to be paid for uh even though it's uh you know it it's it's never quite voluntary people have to be paid if they're asked to serve for a year in any capacity so uh you know uh uh the idea's great where does the money come from [speaker002:] right I guess uh uh I've had I have had some thoughts in the past that uh this this service should not be uh performed for for areas that we don't need the service you know uh it's if it's uh [speaker001:] and [speaker002:] if it's voluntary service but it's being furnished by the government it should be to take the place of things that the government's doing already [speaker001:] um-hum it should it it should or shouldn't it should um-hum [speaker002:] should right so uh you know the the the voluntary service in the medical you know [speaker001:] but I don't think it was it was voluntary I think it was just the required year of required service there was nothing about voluntary [speaker002:] oh okay yeah then then then I guess that's you know uh-huh [speaker001:] that's why as an economist my my my ears perked up [speaker002:] uh at at any rate I guess my idea is that that if we're going to replace if we're going to to institute this national service policy that that service policy should replace some other area [speaker001:] um-hum uh-huh [speaker002:] where we're spending money uh you know uh you know eliminate eliminate some bureaucrats and let the let these national this national service take care of their job [speaker001:] and doing it at a less expensive rate then uh-huh of course you'll probably get another whole layer of bureaucracy running it [speaker002:] right and uh [speaker001:] I mean let's face it the military is probably one of the most bureaucratic agencies [speaker002:] right yeah [speaker001:] so I I I you know on the one hand my immediate reaction to it was oh it's wonderful you know I think people do owe their country something whether it [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] they serve in the military or for those who for for one reason or other can't want to serve in another area and have talents in another area [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] great but then who pays and if they have to and they don't go into the labor the other labor force you're losing money in terms of taxing [speaker002:] yeah right [speaker001:] from other jobs I mean so there's it's not it's not a real cut and dry [speaker002:] yeah I agree uh it and and it would uh would be nice if we could get some uh some multiple use out of this you know maybe uh [speaker001:] thing um-hum [speaker002:] have the the military which is you know is is is a a a real drain financially on the country have the people that are in the military serve some other function you know instead instead of just military uh [speaker001:] um-hum um-hum um-hum and just marching around waiting for a war [speaker002:] right uh [speaker001:] yeah uh we did have something similar to a volunteer thing with uh which was volunteer although volunteer there was a minimum payment uh like Vista which was a domestic Peace Corps some time back [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] and probably coming from Texas you may have bumped into some of that [speaker002:] yeah I have seen uh you know I'm not really that you know that familiar with it I am aware that that that Vista and uh yeah [speaker001:] oh yeah and I know the army what's the army has a corps of engineers [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] which uh could probably be one of those areas that uh could be uh privatized or civilianized or whatever some of the areas there you know for domestic use [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] I've always wondered why the army corps of of engineers took care of floods you know in in certain areas why was [speaker002:] right it's well I guess uh in in in looking at that one reason that the army corps of engineers is that uh the military schools [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] do have probably among the top engineering schools in the country uh [speaker001:] um-hum but of course there are many private engineering schools that are absolutely superb [speaker002:] right but uh but if if the government's going to uh to provide the service then government you know government trained people are are logical to do that uh [speaker001:] yeah they made um-hum yeah and of course back during the depression when the government started doing things like uh CCC the Civilian Conservation Corps [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] so I uh you know there's a bit of a history of people serving the government and it doesn't have to be as the military you know if you go in just as a as an enlistee uh the wage isn't anything great [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] so if if you're asking for a year of service it doesn't have to be a wage comparable to the uh if it's a required year it doesn't have to be a wage comparable to the private sector so it could be you know a wage enough to for have someone to live on to eat and if uh if in fact [speaker002:] right right yeah [speaker001:] so I guess that it a lot of thinking would have to be done if it were implemented [speaker002:] well and it right it yeah uh yeah I guess uh basically I'm you know I'm in favor of uh of the idea but [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] I think that uh like you said a lot of thought needs to go into it just uh the financing and and the the uh the yeah [speaker001:] how it's administered and how you know uh just the who uh who who would be exempted because I'm sure there would be exemptions to it [speaker002:] but uh but uh you know medical service and uh uh aid aid you know or or assistance for families and uh [speaker001:] uh um-hum [speaker002:] oh even uh even uh running the uh the prison system might be a you know a a an area that could run could taken be taken care of [speaker001:] um-hum or even or even doing paperwork for a police systems you know [speaker002:] right uh there's any number of things that the government's involved in that uh [speaker001:] um-hum yeah [speaker002:] that this service could take care of [speaker001:] homeless homeless and all [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] I think they're going to cut us off [speaker002:] well I think that's my call waiting line ringing whoever that is will probably call back [speaker001:] oh oh yeah but I think you know in terms of the the the crime pressing problems in the United States today that in terms of the homeless in terms of the state of the the state of the prisons [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] um there're there're probably a lot of things that could be done uh on a volunteer basis so maybe they should do pilot projects to try it out to see how it works [speaker002:] right yeah right and uh just to see what uh what all could be done yeah it's uh nice talking to you too okay bye-bye [speaker001:] yeah well listen it was good talking with you okay bye-bye

[speaker001:] okay well do you exercise regularly [speaker002:] there is well I am a school teacher and uh there uh uh girl that went through our school district I teach in Highland Park who uh [speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh [speaker002:] who uh does aerobics at uh the YMCA and I say Y them YWCA turn that off please I am recording [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] my husband just turned on something noisy anyway uh she comes to the school and there are a group of teachers and we exercise regularly and for an hour and we do it twice a week [speaker001:] hm um-hum oh that's good [speaker002:] and uh we do uh aerobics for cardiovascular fitness for thirty minutes and then we do stretching and toning and cool down [speaker001:] uh-huh um-hum [speaker002:] for another thirty minutes so it is an hour and then my husband and I take uh two mile walks uh as often as possible and uh not on the nights that I do aerobics but if if he wants to he jogs but I uh [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] I we take the fast walks and we walk a couple of miles and come back to the house [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] and so we we take it seriously we enjoy doing it I enjoy my group at school it's a lot more fun to exercise with somebody than it is to do it by yourself [speaker001:] well that's good yeah yeah uh-huh well I use to exercise regularly and I haven't lately I have goofed off I guess um I use to also take an aerobics class about three days a week before work but um [speaker002:] oh oh oh um-hum [speaker001:] I guess my job change my husband's job change and it's just not easy to get up early in the morning any more so um [speaker002:] oh I understand that I've never been able to do it before [speaker001:] no well the problem is that I am so tired at the end of the day I just wanna go home and not do anything so yeah [speaker002:] um-hum well I am too I just make myself I get up at five thirty and I am at school at seven thirty and school isn't over until uh four [speaker001:] well um-hum [speaker002:] and our class but it's in the building that is the big difference because [speaker001:] oh [speaker002:] there are other people around said uh you'd better hurry go get dressed you know there is motivation around there and then uh we can we can change right there in the building I don't have to drive and fight traffic and get anywhere [speaker001:] uh-huh yeah [speaker002:] and I just go and we all exercise and until then you know I have belonged to exercise clubs and oh I've gone to uh oh like um oh these gyms you know that that like in Plano or Richardson or and uh where they offer the [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] uh rec centers really where they offer aerobics and I've done that before but it always had to be late at night [speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh yeah [speaker002:] after I've got home and after dinner and you are just kind of going ugh and I have tried it immediately after school like try to get some place and exercise from five to six but then by the time you get home and you fix dinner you are eating so late [speaker001:] that's right that's right that's difficult really is [speaker002:] it is it's really hard with our life style when you work um [speaker001:] um-hum yeah I know well I know some people go during lunch but you know by the time I I get over the gym and and go to my class and shower and get back to work it's probably two hours or more and that's just too long so [speaker002:] um-hum I have twenty five minutes for lunch [speaker001:] yeah yeah that doesn't really do it does it yeah [speaker002:] that's out for me no I don't think so but uh and they're nice because if we are running late it usually uh if things are kind of hectic at school and people are running late they kind of wait on us you know because they know we are in the building and coming [speaker001:] um-hum yeah well that good [speaker002:] whereas and uh another place you are paying a lot more money and uh it it they're gonna to start whether you are there or not I mean you know [speaker001:] that's right that's right [speaker002:] so this has worked out real nicely in fact she charges us two dollars a session [speaker001:] well that's not much [speaker002:] hum-um so it's it's we like pay her for six weeks at a time because that is like a unit in uh uh school uh you know report card period and so it is like twenty four dollars every six weeks [speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh oh that's not bad [speaker002:] hum-um [speaker001:] it beats memberships at some of these clubs that's for sure they are real expensive [speaker002:] you're not kidding I know we belonged um for a period of time to the Signature Club for about a year [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] I mean we were paying a hundred dollars plus a month for our family membership and at first we used it and then it got where we weren't beginning to get out money's worth [speaker001:] oh gosh yeah [speaker002:] and they offered lots of things but we weren't taking advantage of them because we didn't have the time to so we decided to forget that that was just a waste of our our money [speaker001:] yeah uh-huh yeah yeah well we have one through work and its its probably about a hundred and fifty dollars a year which isn't bad [speaker002:] oh no hum-um [speaker001:] but I uh I don't know I still just don't don't end up going because there isn't at a convenient time or I don't know something [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] but I need to do something if only walk the dog or something I need to start doing that [speaker002:] um-hum it does make you feel better and the hard thing is getting going [speaker001:] yeah that's right that's right [speaker002:] and if you have somebody who will do it with you like for a long time my husband didn't want to walk because he wants to run uh jog [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] but he decided that uh maybe you know uh if I was you know would be willing to walk

[speaker001:] There you go. First question, do you own your house? [speaker002:] Uh, right, well, we try. [LAUGHTER] I mean it's a big mortgage in the sky and someday, maybe, we might even own it, but, um, for all practical purposes, I guess we hold the mortgage [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Our name is on the till, [speaker002:] Yeah, right. [speaker001:] so that implies ownership. [speaker002:] No one else has offered to pay for it. [speaker001:] That's right. I would not object if anybody did. [speaker002:] Yeah, really they could move right into the spare room [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Yeah. Well, we have, we have had this one for five years now. Before that we lived in Garland, uh, probably about, you know, four blocks away. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] Liked the area, chose to stay inside of Spring Park. It's a, uh, I don't know if you have been up here, but it is a residential homeowners, [speaker002:] Right, yeah, [speaker001:] association. So, there's a lot of, you know, activities, a lot of pluses and common land. [sigh] But, uh, we thought we were buying at the bottom of the market, you know, it could not possibly have gone [child talking] any lower and so we were wrong [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Oh, five years ago. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] Yeah, [speaker001:] I think, what, it bottom out about a ye-, year later. [speaker002:] Yeah, it, well, I mean just recently, I would say, I would give it two years back, when it was, I think, bottomed out. [speaker001:] Oddly enough, two years, you know, I, uh, I think that, [speaker002:] But, maybe not in your area, see, it was just different areas, [speaker001:] not in, in, uh, this area. Cause this is about like the, [speaker002:] That's a really nice area. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] Besides, it's, you know, [NOISE] it's not, it's not Richardson. Is it? It's still considered Garland. [speaker001:] No, it's, it's Richardson. [speaker002:] Oh, ok, yeah. [speaker001:] It's, Richardson and, hold on a second. [child talking] [Speaking to someone in room] Paul, I can hear you perfectly, perfectly well, I don't want to hear you. You are being rude. Whatever you ask or scream when I'm on the phone, the answer is no. Do you understand? [Back to talking on phone] How does that sound? [speaker002:] There you go. Write that one down. [speaker001:] Yeah, there I go. [speaker002:] It sounded good to me [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Yeah, well, I hate to say how long that will last too. [LAUGHTER] No, this area up here is, uh, all custom homes, and, [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] it's, I don't think that many by the builder that built this house. And, we were not the first people, the first owners, I think we are the third owners. [speaker002:] Uh, okay. [speaker001:] It was built by the architect for himself, [sigh] who never moved into it. Who sold it to a couple who had [sigh] no idea that homes ever needed upkeep. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] Oh, no. [speaker001:] [Throat clearing] Oh, yeah, caulking windows was a great mystery to them. [speaker002:] Oh, gee. [speaker001:] So, they just watched the water pour in on the carpet. [sigh] But, it's a Sharif Myneer Homes, if that means anything, it did not really mean anything to me except, [speaker002:] I, I, [speaker001:] I liked it. [speaker002:] kept thinking of Omar Sharif every time I saw that name somewhere, so, [speaker001:] He builds eight hundred thousand dollar houses now. I think he got out of the lower end market. [speaker002:] Uh. [speaker001:] And decided, but, the houses here in, in this class of housing never dropped below two hundred. [speaker002:] Oh, wow. [speaker001:] Yeah, well [LAUGHTER] but, still I know that this one was built for two ninety nine, which is nowhere near what we paid for it. [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] And I think somebody told me it's also on a creek side lot, [children talking] heavily wooded off the golf course. [speaker002:] Oh, great. [speaker001:] Yeah, and the guy around the corner is being transferred so he said, uh, well, he did comparables that it's about [NOISE] eighty dollars, let's see what, I don't remember if he said it was sixty dollars a square foot [children yelling], [speaker002:] Well [speaker001:] off the creek and eighty on the creek, [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] or, if it was eighty and a hundred. [speaker002:] Probably eighty. [speaker001:] I think it was sixty, eighty. [speaker002:] Sixty, eighty. [speaker001:] I think. [speaker002:] [Noise] Well because, I know our, our little house over here stuck in the middle of, you know, the subdivision is, I think fifty five, so, I think the high end is definitely, [speaking fades] you know somewhere there [Children yelling]. [speaker001:] Well, try and think if it was a hundred dollars a square foot [talking]. No, it could not be, because this house has around thirty four hundred square feet, and it would never sell for three hundred forty thousand dollars. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] Just never. [speaker002:] Well [TV]. [speaker001:] Now, maybe, you know, that's pretty close to what it would have sold for, uh, brand new, or that's pretty much what it was built for. It's got an awful lot of nice things in it but, you know, I don't think, I think it's going to be a long time, if ever, when nice things and really quality construction and all the other additional amenities [sigh] are really, [sigh] uh, desirable. It's seems like people go for square footage only now [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] and, uh, [Noise] cause. Have you been back to the Perry Homes, back here? [speaker002:] Um, [NOISE] the ones that look like brick houses [LAUGHTER]? [speaker001:] The one that looks like Monopoly apartments. [speaker002:] Right. [LAUGHTER] Yeah, I think those are awful. [LAUGHTER] I'm sorry, I just don't see the designer's, I just see him as trying to squish as much space, you know, as much house into the space as possible. [speaker001:] They are huge when you are inside them. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] They are very spacious. They are, you know, I was, I was in one today. It was forty two hundred square feet. [speaker002:] Uh. [speaker001:] Yeah. Uh-huh. [speaker002:] Well see that's, the house that we got is small enough so my husband and I, because there's just the two of us and the two cats, um, can yell at each other from one end to the other and be heard. And we thought that was important instead of getting [LAUGHTER] swallowed up in something that you know. [speaker001:] See, when you have kids, you like to be able to, [speaker002:] Yeah, that's true. [speaker001:] send them some place where they can yell and you won't hear them. But, I have been watching these houses go up and I, I don't, well, somebody was telling me, I know somebody who lives back there, I have always questioned the quality [NOISE] of construction and I, I don't think they exceed more than twelve nails per house. [speaker002:] Oh. [speaker001:] When you watch them go up, you are just amazed that they do not fall over. [speaker002:] [Very faint] Yeah. [speaker001:] And it takes them something like, thirty days to complete a house. [speaker002:] Oh, that's amazing. Right now, in fact, even as we speak, we are having a deck put on in back, and these guys are phenomenal. They just, they, they are doing such a terrific job back there, I mean, you know, you pay for it too, but it's, it's like, really worth it. They are putting in a deck, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] a redwood deck, and it's just, they are doing such a fine, fine job. [speaker001:] We have got [speaker002:] I'm really excited about it, [speaker001:] three different levels of decking, because, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] this lot slopes way back down and, uh, the house is built around the trees. [speaker002:] Great. [speaker001:] And with these decking that a corporation and a large area for the trees to come up so, it's real, real shady. [child talking] But, that's one of the few things that really, uh, immediately pays back on return. But, what I was going to tell you, these Perry Homes back there, [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] when the people from M C I come down and they are, you know, they are used to the Virginia area, metropolitan D C. [speaker002:] Uh. [speaker001:] My God, they come down here and those houses, that, that look the colonial look what the, [speaker002:] Looks like the George Town brownstone [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Right, [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] And, uh, the idea of ever owning anything that has four thousand square feet in it, for less than two hundred twenty thousand dollars, [speaker002:] Must be a dream. [speaker001:] which is probably about what their equity is, that they got out of selling their house. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] Because those things are selling like hot cakes. But, one of the people that was living back there was telling me that there is his air conditioning bill, per month, last summer was in excess of five hundred dollars [speaker002:] Oh. [speaker001:] a month. And I thought, [speaker002:] I can't, [speaker001:] and he was talking about how you keep up with the utilities here. And I was thinking, well, you know, I know why your God damn bill is so high, [speaker002:] He has no insulation, probably. [speaker001:] it's because there's not a there's no insulation, [NOISE] insulation in those things. [speaker002:] Oh, my. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] Gosh. What a trap. Huh. [speaker001:] Any yet, you know, they, they show very well un-, they show very well unless you have, you know, lived in a lot of houses around the area, [speaker002:] And you ask the right questions and can research, yeah. [speaker001:] or looked at a lot of houses around here. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] And I think that makes a big difference. But, I like, I like this area and everything that I have been saying, [speaker002:] Oh, I do too. [speaker001:] says that it's, I think if we had to sell now, we could come close to breaking even [child crying]. [speaker002:] But, still, um, it's worth it for the area and for the school and things like that [very faint]. [speaker001:] You're in, you're in the,

[speaker001:] [Child talking] Uh, [NOISE] taxes [LAUGHTER]. Do you want to go ahead? [speaker002:] [Snorting] Sure. We pay far too much in taxes. Well, far too much for what we get. I mean [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] it's just, [speaker001:] I agree. [speaker002:] [Snorting] I don't know, it ju-, just seems too much of the money is just lost [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. Well I think, uh, you know, when I look at, uh, all the things that are coming out now about over spending and spending money that's not there and buying things that are extremely expensive where they could buy it at a, at a better discount, uh, when you, when, [speaker002:] Um. You mean like those, you know, twenty thousand dollar toilets [LAUGHTER]? [speaker001:] Exactly, exactly. That's exactly, uh, the whole thing. When you take a look at all those issues of where our money is going and it's just, as long as the person that's spending the money, uh, doesn't think about oh, I can go out and spend anything that I want to it's just unlimited, [speaker002:] Sure, it's real easy to spend other people's money. Right? [speaker001:] Right. An unlimited source so they, they think well I'll go out and buy a four hundred toilet seat and I could have went to K-Mart and bought it for, you know, ten or fifteen [NOISE]. I mean, that kind of thing and, uh, [speaker002:] Right. E-, I don't mind them getting what they need. It's just when they pay so much for it. [speaker001:] Exactly. [speaker002:] It takes you know, very little to just shop around and, [speaker001:] Exactly. And I know a lot of, uh, corporations now are looking at their amount of money that's being spent and they're looking [speaker002:] That's true [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] at what's the best buy. It used to be you could go, if you had a company you had to go through certain people and you didn't care what you paid. [speaker002:] Yep. [speaker001:] I mean you just got it done. Now people are putting in bids for things and are looking at things. Going to actually shop at Best Buy for, Best Buy is one of our electronic stores [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] for fax machines, things like that, instead of going through these office supply companies that mark up their amounts and say, you know, I'll give you a legal pad for five bucks, [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] and you can go to another shop and get it for maybe sixty cents or nin-, or ninety cents [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] that kind of thing [sniffing] so. [speaker002:] I'm also wondering why our taxes are still so high considering like the world's probably in better shape now than it has been in the last fifty years [snorting]. [speaker001:] Except for everything keeps going up, you know. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] And I know as a middle class, uh, you know, and also I have one dependent has [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] my daughter and I keep looking at well where's the tax, so-called tax, uh, relief [speaker002:] Yeah, I know. [speaker001:] for having children. I mean, there is none [NOISE]. I mean, I think I paid just as much as when [speaker002:] Oh, I know, I mean I don't even, [speaker001:] I didn't have her, so [pounding]. [speaker002:] You know, I don't even get to see half my paycheck. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] Between Four Oh One K and, and the thirty-four percent they're taking out for taxes. [speaker001:] Sure. Exactly. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] Let alone what I end up having to pay [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. Exactly. Yeah, that's the whole thing. Now they have gotten this wonderful idea of not taking out as much taxes, [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] but you're still going to owe the government as much money [speaker002:] Sure. [speaker001:] so by the end of this coming year, what's going to happen is all these people are going to find out that they owe the government [pounding] and it certainly isn't going to be in their savings, uh, account. [speaker002:] Nope, they won't be able to pay. [speaker001:] They won't be able to pay it and there'll be a lot of problems because of that, you know. Put people into, you know, January or February which is always suppose to be, the month after Christmas is supposed to be high spending because everything is on sale. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Nobody's going to have the money to spend. [speaker002:] Sure none. [speaker001:] They're going to be paying on their taxes so they're going to have to just cut back so, I don't know where the answer is and [pounding], [speaker002:] I don't, in the first place, you know, there's also like taxation without representation. Well I don't feel represented anymore in our government. I mean, it [speaker001:] Yeah, Yeah. [speaker002:] [Snorting] it's certainly not a government for me. It doesn't take care of my needs [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] No, no. Well, that's the whole thing. I think people are getting so fed up with it. Now, we go through another election and listen to all these lies about the, [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] an-, and people don't care anymore either. [speaker001:] No. No. [speaker002:] People don't want to go out to vote. [speaker001:] Well, I don't think people think they can make a difference. And when you've got candidates as you do. It's candidates that have money [speaker002:] Yep. [speaker001:] and it's backed by big business. And big business says well we don't care about the little person and, uh, you know, you're not going to get anymore Abe Lincolns [speaker002:] No, but [speaker001:] around. [speaker002:] but that, that's going to backfire because [speaker001:] Uh-huh. Well who knows, uh, yeah. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] little people who buy everything, so [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Generations from now we might, uh, set back in our little, uh, rocking chairs and watch our grandchildren go through an entirely different system of things and say, you know, this government itself isn't working. Just like the communist government of, uh, the old U S S R. [speaker002:] Yeah [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] And maybe that's going to happen to America where they'll say, hey we're fed up. [speaker002:] [Snort] Yeah, I wonder though [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Maybe it'll have to be just individual state tax. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] And each state take care of itself and no government type of, uh, you know, where you have to pay out to federal or whatever. I don't know. Who knows but, [speaker002:] Yeah, I'm not [LAUGHTER]. I don't know, I can't think of any easy answers to it but something has to happen, I mean [speaker001:] Uh-huh, yeah. [speaker002:] I'm certainly fed up with it. [speaker001:] Yeah [LAUGHTER]. Everybody is, in fact, I'm not sending in my check [child talking],

[speaker001:] Uh, the last movie that I saw, I, I don't go to that many so I'll just have to talk about the ones that I went to see, but, [speaker002:] Okay. [speaker001:] uh, it was AWAKENINGS with, uh, Robin Williams and, uh, Peter DeNiro. [speaker002:] Yes, uh-huh. [speaker001:] Have you seen it. [speaker002:] No unfortunately I haven't, I heard it's really good, but. [speaker001:] It is. I just have to take my hat off to Peter DeNiro. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] He is one of the best actors I've ever seen. It's, there's a point where, the, uh, the show is about these, uh, catatonic type people that, this doctor discovers a drug that brings them back to the, the living, more or less, but it wears off. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] And the way it wears off is he goes through all these spastic, you know, uh, it starts off with like a tic, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] and then it gets to where he can't, you know, control his movements at all. And it was just so realistic. The way, you know, you have to just keep reminding yourself that he's an actor. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. What does, uh, is Robby, Robin Williams, does he have a funny part in it? [speaker001:] No, it was very serious, very se-, [speaker002:] Oh how does he do serious. [speaker001:] He's good, he's, he's talented, boy, he is. [speaker002:] I've only seen him in funny stuff and so. [speaker001:] I know, me too. But, uh, well, what was that show, um, [barking] Gar-, uh, Garf-, I want to say Garfield but that wasn't it. [speaker002:] Yeah, uh, GARP, THE WORLD ACCORDING TO GARP. [speaker001:] Yeah, THE WORLD ACCORDING TO GARP. He wasn't always funny in that show, was he. [speaker002:] I didn't read, see the, the movie, I read the book but I, [speaker001:] I did too. That's why I was thinking it couldn't be just a totally funny part [barking]. [speaker002:] Yeah, in fact, it got some pretty serious deep parts in it so. [speaker001:] Yeah, right. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] Well what have you seen? [speaker002:] I think the last movie that we went out to see was DANCES WITH WOLVES. [speaker001:] Oh, I saw it. [speaker002:] Good, we've both seen one [LAUGHTER]. Did you cry through it? [speaker001:] Yes, the whole way [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] It was telling a friend, I, I said, I only cried twice, but each was about half an hour long, so. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Where did you cry. [speaker002:] Um, let's see, when I, each time that I thought that the Indians were going to get killed, I cried. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] Um, I cried the first time when the, um, the wagon man got killed, when they attacked him. [speaker001:] Uh-huh, yeah, yeah. [speaker002:] And, uh, I think from there on, all the way through the movie. Let's see what else did it. Um, what other parts. I can't remember any of the other parts right off now. [speaker001:] I cried when the horse got killed and when the wolf got killed [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] We-, I don't remember when the horse got killed. [speaker001:] Oh, th-, when he was riding back to the settlement and they shot his horse out from under him. [speaker002:] Oh, yeah. [speaker001:] And then he, uh, the next day he looked out there and saw those buzzards, you know [barking]. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] And that horse has been such a pal to him, [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] when he was alone. You can tell I'm an animal lover, you can hear my dog [barking]. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] Unfortunately we don't have any animals, so, uh. [speaker001:] Yeah. It was a beautiful story, it really was. [speaker002:] It, there was a lot of pretty scenery, too, in that movie. [speaker001:] Uh-huh, uh-huh. [speaker002:] What did you think about the buffalo scenes. [speaker001:] Oh, I thought it was awful, [speaker002:] That was, [speaker001:] and so graphic, [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] I mean I hadn't even imagined it, you know. I think we all heard the story of the slaughter of the buffalo. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] Um, I had a friend who had fixed some, uh, chili, buffalo chili and, about a week before went to see the movie. [speaker002:] Oh, oh. [speaker001:] Of course they raise them now, you know, to eat. [speaker002:] Uh-huh, yeah, it's not, [speaker001:] But she, we were both feeling so guilty about enjoying this chili after seeing that. [speaker002:] Uh-huh, well at least you know that it wasn't same situation that the buffalo died in. [speaker001:] No it wasn't [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Um, I thought the scenes when the buffalos running, though, were beautiful, like that was great. [speaker001:] Oh, yeah. [speaker002:] And there were so many of them. I didn't know that, that many buffaloes alive, much less in one place. [speaker001:] Yeah, really. [speaker002:] So that was pretty. [speaker001:] And to think about how it just changed the whole landscape, you know, you could follow this, this beaten down path, [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] and it sounded like thunder and earthquakes and that sort of thing. [speaker002:] I wonder how they kept up with them, though, it seemed like the buffaloes were moving so fast. [speaker001:] I know. [speaker002:] I guess they graze, though, that wouldn't be a problem. [speaker001:] Yeah, yeah. Uh, have you seen any of the behind the scenes, uh, of, of that movie. [speaker002:] No, huh-uh. [speaker001:] It was, they tried to keep it, you know, as very close to real. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] I mean like Kevin Costner did all of his own scenes and, uh, they had to teach a wolf how to, to howl. [speaker002:] Oh. [speaker001:] That's the, part they had trouble finding was wolves [barking]. [speaker002:] I guess they're just not domesticated, or, or, [speaker001:] Yeah, what, they just don't howl that much anymore. [speaker002:] Uh. [speaker001:] I could bring them in with my dogs and set a siren off and that's all they'd have to do [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] That'll teach them in a couple minutes, huh. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] Well that's funny. [speaker001:] Well, I think we've made it. [speaker002:] Oh is that five minutes, is that, [speaker001:] I don't know, is it five or three. [speaker002:] Okay, oh, I'm not sure. [speaker001:] I'm not either. [speaker002:] Okay, well I think we're, we're, we've done okay, though. [speaker001:] Okay, me too. [speaker002:] Well thank you for calling. [speaker001:] Well thank you. [speaker002:] And I hope you enjoy some more good movies late-, [speaker001:] Yeah, you too. [speaker002:] Bye, bye. [speaker001:] Bye, bye.

[speaker001:] [TV]. [speaker002:] Okay. Uh, mandatory service. Yeah. I don't think it's a good idea, uh, because we'd have to change the constitution to, to, uh, allow, uh, involuntary servitude, uh, in service to the government. And I'm not sure that we could, [speaker001:] [Noise]. [speaker002:] do that in such a way that we could avoid winding up a slave state. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] It's, I like the, [speaker001:] And, [speaker002:] idea. [speaker001:] In what way are you talking about. [speaker002:] Well, [throat clearing] I like the idea of volunteer, voluntary support. [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] I mean they might be able to, ah, say that anyone who does that, uh, gets certain benefits that [throat clearing] would not be available to someone who didn't do it. But to use force, uh, [swallowing] really sets us a, a, i-, i-, essentially says that your body, there's a title to your body and that title belongs to the government. [speaker001:] . [speaker002:] And you are not a free American [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] citizen. [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] The idea itself of service is good and when someone is say, out of high school and not sure about college or out of college and not ready to go into a career and they're not committed to huge amounts of debt, that's the best time to be able to do work that doesn't pay very well. [speaker001:] See, I, yeah. And I also thought that, uh, that would interfere with, with college work. [speaker002:] Yeah. Unless it were tied [speaker001:] And they didn't, [speaker002:] directly. [speaker001:] [Inhaling] Yeah. [speaker002:] You know, if someone were studying something, take something obscure. Somebody was studying economics, the State Department could offer to send them to the Soviet Union for two years to teach them how to run their country. [speaker001:] Yeah. That's true. * Should be a slash unit [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] As an extreme example, right? [speaker001:] Yeah * See note aboveas an indep. slash unit this would be an 'ny' [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] But, in reality, I think what you would wind up with is a political football where they would see all these body counts that they can use to, for their own will and I just don't think it would work. [speaker001:] When do they assume this is going to be proposed or mandatory? Or when, when, what, what year are they looking at? [speaker002:] Well, they're not. It's been suggested. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] And it's sort of a topic of debate. [speaker001:] [Child talking]. [speaker002:] Every time it comes up it gets voted down. The people who are promilitary oppose because they don't want people to have the right to opt out of the military into something else. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] And the people who are proconstitution oppose it on the grounds that the government shouldn't even have the right to enforce you to join the military unless [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] the United States is actually under attack [static]. [speaker001:] Right. Right [very faint]. [speaker002:] So, mostly, it's just kind of one of those things that goes away. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] Ah! They've got a noisy line. [speaker001:] I thought that was your line [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Yeah. Well, it's somewhere between here and there. [speaker001:] Uh, what age group i-, are, are they looking at? [speaker002:] Uh, oh eighteen. The draft age. [speaker001:] Eighteen. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] Yeah, that seems, normally that would interfere with college, I would think. [speaker002:] Wait a, yeah. Let me see if I can get on a cleaner line. If it's my line, uh. [speaker001:] I moved. Maybe that is, that's part of it. [speaker002:] [Click] [Static] Yeah it is my line. I was on a radio phone. [speaker001:] Oh. [speaker002:] All right. That's better [swallowing]. Yeah, now their, they, they figure that they can draft you at eighteen. They usually do draft you at nineteen. And that's the, [speaker001:] [Thumping] [child]. [speaker002:] age they're looking at. [speaker001:] Oh. Um. [speaker002:] And, of course, they're, this one the women would be equally grabbed and they're almost on the verge of saying that you, if you're going to draft men, you're going to have to draft women. And you're going to have to put them in front of the guns just the same. [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] So, uh, if you're near that age [LAUGHTER] or you know somebody who is [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] uh, you know, be aware of that. [speaker001:] Yeah [lipsmack]. Well, that's kind of scary [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] I'm not near that age [LAUGHTER]. I'm way over it but I [speaker002:] Oh, okay. [speaker001:] do have children to think about, you know. [speaker002:] Yep. And you don't want them sent off to the Middle East to [speaker001:] That's kind of scary. [speaker002:] help defend Bush from Saddam after Bush gets done arming him. [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] You know, we only find out about that a year after the fact. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] So, it's another thing. When in doubt, don't trust the government at all [LAUGHTER]. It's really reached [speaker001:] Oh. [speaker002:] that point. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. Huh. [speaker002:] Hey, you're in Perot country. I'm really thinking that this guy might be good for us. [speaker001:] I do too [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] I've been, I-, it seemed dangerous. I thought is the guy a closet fascist? And then I find out that he helped rid the United States of the gablers. [speaker001:] He's, he's helped out in a lot of ways. Yeah, he's, he's from Dallas. Or he's in the Dallas area. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] And, uh, he's very well known around here. So. [speaker002:] Okay. Well, I'm in the computer biz too so I know he's well known in the industry. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] They, uh, I, I have high hopes for him. And I think that [LAUGHTER], you know, if he could get people interested and encouraged and to believe that the government was actually for us, then I'm for him. [speaker001:] Yeah. I, I. [speaker002:] I mean in the Democratic primary, I'm going to vote for Brown just because I kind of like Brown and his attitude. But when, uh, when it really comes down in the fall, I think I know where it's going to go. [speaker001:] Yeah. Yeah. I, I think he's got a very good chance. So, there's a lot of people here pulling for him. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] So. I don't know [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Yeah [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] We'll just see. How [speaker002:] You know, th-, [speaker001:] did you, uh, you work in the, uh, computer business, is that what you said? [speaker002:] Yeah. I'm an end user. I teach people how to use MacIntoshes and how to buy equipment and desktop publishing magazine production and things related to that. [speaker001:] Oh, okay. Uh, my husband works for, uh, Texas Instruments. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] And, so, uh, that's how we found out about the Switchboard. [speaker002:] Oh, yeah. Oh, that's their project too, isn't it? I found about it on the network. [speaker001:] [T V].

[speaker001:] [Throat clearing]. [speaker002:] [Swallowing] [talking] You want to go first [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Well, uh, no I don-, I don't get as much exercise as I, as I should as, or as I would like to, uh, uh, these days. I, seems to be to easy to get busy with other things. Uh, I have, in the past, uh, jogged and, and run, and every, every January and every September, I start out again and then it tapers off [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Really? [speaker001:] Uh, what about you? [speaker002:] Well, yeah, I do a lot of exercise. Right now, I'm into jazzercise, which I absolutely love. Uh, I started about two years ago because I gained some weight over the past few years and I wanted to get it back off [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] and I was going through a divorce and I just found that running really made me feel good. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] Got out a lot of aggression. I went to the gym every day and I ran on the treadmill and rode the bike and, uh, I felt really good. I needed to do it and it was really helpful at the time. Now when I do those things, they're boring. I would rather be outside then [NOISE] in the gym doing this in one place. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] And so I just recently discovered jazzercise, about two months ago. And I'm getting to be a good dancer from it and I'm just feeling really good. I love the class, it's real challenging, so I'm really into that, [speaker001:] [Snorting]. [speaker002:] I really like that a lot. [speaker001:] Well now that, is that, uh, that's related to the, the aerobic, uh,, [speaker002:] It is, it's aerobics but it's with dance steps. [speaker001:] Okay. [speaker002:] It's an aerobic exercise and it's an hour straight. And it's just, uh, it's a lot of fun. I feel like I'm not just exercising. [speaker001:] Yeah, yeah. [speaker002:] Because I'm dancing and I'm, I'm getting much better. My stamina is getting great for the dance floor [LAUGHTER], so [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] I mean it's just, there's a lot of positive things with it, so. [speaker001:] Well, uh, okay. Now that's inside again, right? [speaker002:] It is inside and I've [speaker001:] But, [speaker002:] been doing a lot of bike riding outside with the nice weather we've been having and I just enjoy that much more too than inside. [speaker001:] Do, do you like to do it wi-, with other people. I mean like the, the jazzercise would be? [speaker002:] I have a thirteen year old daughter and so we go bike riding and it's nice. We get [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] to spend some time together rather than I go to the gym while she does her homework. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] So I've enjoyed that part of it. Yeah. And at the gym, even in the class, uh, I, w-, e-, it's not really a group where you chat a lot. Everybody's on their way to someplace [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] and so, you know, I do [speaker001:] But, [speaker002:] have one friend who goes occasionally but, basically, I do it by myself in a group of maybe forty [LAUGHTER], so. [speaker001:] Yeah, right. Right. But still there are, there are other people there doing the, doing the same thing. [speaker002:] There are, there are. It's more motivating that way, I think. Yeah. [speaker001:] In terms of motivation and incentive, yeah. [speaker002:] You could get a tape probably and do it at home in front of the T V but i-, you probably wouldn't. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] So. [speaker001:] Yeah, uh, that makes a difference doesn't it? [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] I, I've, one thing, when, when I have [swallowing] run and jogged, uh, I've always enjoyed doing it by myself and, and, kno-, not with the sense that it was, uh, uh, chore or something that I was having to do, I, I've really enjoyed just the activity and, uh, [sigh] I write software, uh, as far as the job and so getting out and being active, uh, is, uh, uh, helps out. The, th-, it's [speaker002:] Yeah, yeah, I can see it'll be a good break. [speaker001:] The ch-, the chan-, the change of pace and just [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] getting out and around and I find that I can often, you know, often, uh, when I get around to doing it, then I, I feel better when I get back to work [speaker002:] Uh-huh [faint]. [speaker001:] and, uh, uh, also that, that, it, my subconscious is working on things while I'm working [speaker002:] Yeah [faint]. [speaker001:] and I, I go back and I've got new ideas, but still. [speaker002:] Yeah. I think you do. You feel very good after you exercise. I think [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] it's worth making the time for yourself. You owe it to yourself [NOISE] [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] and I think you do accomplish [NOISE] more after that. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] And I think that it's just is good for your self-esteem, for everything because when you look better, you feel better and it's just, uh, I think it's well worth it. I just demand that time for myself. Now I've learned to do that [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] and, you know, and it's, I think it just benefits you all around. So. [speaker001:] Yeah, I think that's, uh, I think that's a good term, d-, demanding the time for yourself. That you've just got to [speaker002:] You have to. Because [speaker001:] you've just got to prior-, [speaker002:] there's always more things to do. [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] There is always things that you can make priority to it but I just, I don't demand a lot for myself and so [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] you know, I just feel entitled to it and I take it [LAUGHTER], so. [speaker001:] Well good, well good. Well, uh, uh, have you, have you done any jogging? I tell you, you said you did on the bike and on the treadmill in, in the, uh, club. [speaker002:] [Sigh] No, I've done some walking with friends in the past. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] But I find that when you do that, you do more chatting than you do [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] exercise and that's not really beneficial, so, uh [speaker001:] Yeah, yeah. [speaker002:] I don't have time like that and I spend enough time chatting around [LAUGHTER] everywhere, you know [talking]. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].

[speaker001:] okay [speaker002:] uh well Steve do you take your entire uh family camping [speaker001:] well we really haven't been camping per se here but we've camped in Wyoming [speaker002:] well you have do you take the children with you [speaker001:] oh yeah [speaker002:] yeah I got a one child he's ten years old when we go camping uh we normally have to round up another child to keep him occupied otherwise otherwise he drives us nuts [speaker001:] yeah well that that's basically the same way with us but we we kind of play games and stuff with him when we're camping [speaker002:] do you do you wilderness camp [speaker001:] uh yeah I have before before I uh got married I haven't since I've been married though [speaker002:] your your wife doesn't like that wilderness camping does she [speaker001:] well she she likes to go camping but we just haven't really had a chance to really go camping [speaker002:] yeah my wife thinks Holiday Inn is wilderness camping she uh she got to have a bathroom and showers we live on the lake uh there's a very large lake here it's called Lake Laniers in north Georgia [speaker001:] yeah uh-huh [speaker002:] my house is on the lake so there's a lot of places to camp around around here where the they have rest rooms and showers and stuff like but the lake's really crowded so we normally go the mountains we found some nice little places in the mountains [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] there's a lot of state run camp sites now this they're charging us now do they charge you in Texas [speaker001:] I'm not sure if they do or not it's uh I think uh some of the privately owned places do but I'm not sure about the government owned [speaker002:] oh oh they do here they they uh you pay taxes to support it and then uh you pay to get in too [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] you know like a user fee I think they call them now so now do y'all do you fish and go camp do you take a boat or [speaker001:] yeah well no not really we just usually kind of go camping and tent and cook and and just fish off the shore [speaker002:] yeah it uh do you uh load the car down till the springs are dragging the ground we do we yeah we we got uh my wife is putting tables and chairs yeah [speaker001:] got to have the comforts of home huh [speaker002:] oh yeah it we have a hard time getting the uh recliners bolted on high on the car too well it takes three days to load the car and three days to unload it and we camp for about a day and a half [speaker001:] yeah yeah I I can understand that but we really don't when we go we kind of plan everything out and we don't uh take a lot of stuff with us so [speaker002:] do you know how old are your children Steve [speaker001:] uh we just got a five year old [speaker002:] a five year old boy that's rough to camping in when they're five it'n it [speaker001:] well not really he's pretty good you know he when he when we ask him to do something he usually does goes and does it [speaker002:] well when when uh ours is like I say is ten years old and I think they might be a little bit more hard to handle too [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] you got to keep them occupied and then plus you end up with a fish hooks in your ears and stuff like that [speaker001:] well I kind of I kind of got a got him to where he's uh just got a weight on the end of his right now so he really doesn't know what catching fish is like so he just kind of practice casting right now [speaker002:] well that's all they care about anyway [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] casting that's all my boy cares about seeing how for he can throw it I've tried to explain to him fish can swim [speaker001:] yeah yeah [speaker002:] he don't believe me [speaker001:] but before I came in the service my dad always took us camping in the Bighorns in Wyoming [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] so we did a lot of that just about every year with the family so [speaker002:] it was we drove we drove through there and looked that looks like it'd be beautiful out there [speaker001:] oh yeah it is well one one summer we went in July and went camping and one morning we got up there's snow on the ground [speaker002:] so [speaker001:] sort of it kind of surprises you you know [speaker002:] yeah I don't know if I could take that last time we went camping I went with my brother and his wife and we went up the on top of this mountain it was a little narrow road [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] and it takes it's just eighteen miles but it takes like a hour and a half to get up that road it's a rough road [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] so we get up there and we sit around and we get ready to get ready for the camp that night and and they didn't bring the poles to hold their tent up so we're all had to cram this one little tiny tent and it rained all night long [speaker001:] oh [speaker002:] and I was stuck at the door and it just it just flooded me all night long this so that has been our last little camping experience [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] but uh we enjoyed it if we if you don't get pneumonia [speaker001:] yeah it's it's pretty nice to get out and see the wilderness every now and then you know [speaker002:] well there's getting less and less of it [speaker001:] oh yeah [speaker002:] I think

[speaker001:] okay [speaker002:] hello yeah okay [speaker001:] hello yeah yeah well I uh on capital punishment here in Utah it uh we do have the death penalty for murder and uh the uh the either the jury or the judge can make that determination depending on the crime the seriousness of the crime [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] it's been uh uh it's been uh oh it's been four or five years ago since uh someone was actually uh put on death row well there's some quite a few on death row but uh before one was executed [speaker002:] yeah that's the same way it is here [speaker001:] and it uh we've got some that uh have been there for ten or fifteen years and I don't know my opinion on on uh the death penalty I think it's uh personally I think it would be a deterrent if uh they were able to carry this out without many appeals but they appeal and appeal and uh it just goes on forever but [speaker002:] right right it's just nothing but cost the taxpayers lots of money huh [speaker001:] uh-huh it really does and uh uh I I have I've always felt that uh if they murder someone in cold uh in cold blood they know what they're doing and uh that they should be uh pay made to pay for it but if we don't have a deterrent of some kind then it just gets to the point where and if people it's just if they want to do it they do it and then they they think well I'll be out in uh two or three years and a lot of them are [speaker002:] yeah and then they end up doing it again [speaker001:] uh-huh right [speaker002:] no I think that's very very very wrong um I'm with you I think if they if they've killed somebody they should they should pay for it [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] you know period no you know none of this going on and on and on and on [speaker001:] right what if the where it's so clear cut we've had a couple cases here where they were actually caught and they uh and they had witnesses where they had killed two or three people and there was one that they thought they'd killed but they hadn't and they had the witness and and uh they did all kinds of things to these poor people [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] and this one they thought they had killed him but uh they hadn't and the the police were able to get them but they they did uh were able to uh have the one uh executed but the other one is still appealing and uh it's uh it's really a sad thing especially for the families of those that were involved [speaker002:] yeah you know I don't in other countries I don't think they do that if someone does something bad like that they just [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] do it right now you know [speaker001:] right and and they don't have the crime rate that we have here I know my son uh was over in Saudi Arabia but he was over there during the war and he said man somebody over there [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] uh they they kill someone and the and uh that's it they're killed or they [speaker002:] yeah they pay for it right now yeah [speaker001:] right and so he says you really don't have that he could see the crime rate was very low over there because people knew the consequences [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] but here it's got to the point where I think it's gone too far the other way [speaker002:] yeah you know like like you say you know anything they do they don't care they could go out and rob somebody if they get caught they know they're just going to be out in just a little while anyhow [speaker001:] uh that's true [speaker002:] so it's the same thing you know but uh I just don't think that they should let it go on and on and on like they do [speaker001:] well I know made in the point you made about the taxpayer paying for it when you start considering the cost of fifty to sixty thousand dollars a year to keep them in prison [speaker002:] yeah right [speaker001:] plus all the attorney costs all of that the taxpayers pay for [speaker002:] uh-huh uh-huh [speaker001:] and uh the victims they don't get anything other than just the heartache and going through this and going through it appeal after appeal and I don't know I [speaker002:] yeah they make it wait for so long and then people forget actually what did happen you know [speaker001:] uh-huh and then they find some little glitch uh in the law and uh you either turn them loose or or put them in prison for life and then maybe after a few years they're paroled [speaker002:] yeah right right [speaker001:] so I don't know it's it's uh quite a situation I [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] I wish they'd get back to that but uh every once in a while there was a fellow that was executed in uh Wyoming the state next to us uh about a month ago and uh of course he he said he wanted to be because he he had done the you know he he admitted to it and everything he said I just don't want to stay in prison and [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] so the lawyers couldn't do anything to stop that one but anyway it's uh [speaker002:] uh-huh uh-huh it makes you wonder how they can live with themselves when they do something like that huh [speaker001:] I well it does and then you try to teach your children uh respect for for uh

[speaker001:] there [speaker002:] it's beautiful it's wonderful I love it it's not January [speaker001:] is it sunny today [speaker002:] it's sunny there's a few light wispy little clouds floating around there's a light breeze it's about sixty three degrees [speaker001:] oh nice [speaker002:] it's wonderful my son and I have been out for a couple of walks today [speaker001:] yeah really [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] yeah it's real nice has it been raining [speaker002:] um it stopped raining let's see Monday Monday or Tuesday Monday it stopped raining it's been raining [speaker001:] oh yeah yeah it's it was raining until yesterday here [speaker002:] until then was it [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] and it's but it has been real icky well no it it rained Monday night it rained it stopped raining Monday night like Tuesday it was it was clear but it's been really nasty the clouds have been over cast even though it's been kind of warm so that it is muggy [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] that wasn't very good either [speaker001:] did you get some snow a while back [speaker002:] uh we did we got snow about a week and a half ago [speaker001:] that's what I thought [speaker002:] and it was it was really wild because uh the snow was um it didn't stick [speaker001:] oh uh [speaker002:] but it flurried and you could see it but it uh it didn't stick any [speaker001:] huh [speaker002:] yeah it was nice it turned into it was like rain it because it was warm even it was above freezing [speaker001:] yeah wow [speaker002:] but it was between uh just where the clouds were and where you know but when the snow got down here [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] it was cold enough to freeze it and then it just stayed frozen it was wet snow I guess is what they call it when is starts thawing before it hits the ground [speaker001:] yeah we haven't had anything like that [speaker002:] really [speaker001:] yeah it's only um it's only froze we have only had two freezes so far this winter but I think it is going to be a lot warmer soon [speaker002:] oh yeah well I am wondering about the summer what is summer going to be like if winter is this temperate [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] we are bound to have a real dozy of a summer [speaker001:] that's what I think but with all this rain all the all the flowers ought to be real pretty [speaker002:] but I don't know I've I've had um I have Easter lilies that I grow in my back yard and they have already started up [speaker001:] uh-huh wow [speaker002:] and it's way too early [speaker001:] yes it is [speaker002:] for Easter lilies they shouldn't be up until March when the the flowers actually start to bloom [speaker001:] yeah I've seen Day lilies uh not Day lilies daffodils around town uh and blooming [speaker002:] already coming in bloom [speaker001:] and blooming [speaker002:] oh please [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] I I put down crocus this year thinking oh well it will get cold in January and February you know and I won't have to worry about it I don't think I am going to get crocus this spring [speaker001:] you might not you might not [speaker002:] no I don't think it got cold enough for them to come out [speaker001:] but do you have the wild flowers up there [speaker002:] we don't have as many wild flowers here as there are down toward Austin I use to go to school in San Marcus so I'm familiar with Austin and the area [speaker001:] yeah they ought to be really pretty this year [speaker002:] I think so I think the highways are going to be great [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] I'm ready to travel [speaker001:] yeah we like to go out and take pictures of them and everything it they ought to be really off of two ninety especially is real nice [speaker002:] oh uh-huh I agree that's a [speaker001:] yeah my husband said with all the rain this year that it ought to be real real nice [speaker002:] uh-huh I agree and it's be probably be wonderful out there [speaker001:] well this kind of weather today I feel like getting outside [speaker002:] well I'm wishing I'm I'm wishing I had made a picnic for my son and I put down a blanket or a a sleeping bag and had a picnic outside [speaker001:] yeah that would've been nice [speaker002:] yeah that that's what'll be great when all the wild flowers come out take yourself out a picnic and [speaker001:] right well the weather man said it's suppose to start raining again for us tomorrow [speaker002:] oh really [speaker001:] and through the weekend [speaker002:] we're not suppose to get it until about Monday Sunday night or Monday [speaker001:] oh maybe it'll might we might not get it here when [speaker002:] well we've uh yeah we have [speaker001:] well they told us it was going to rain today too we don't have the most reliable weather men [speaker002:] oh I guess not [speaker001:] no they said it was going to rain today [speaker002:] although they revise they revise our weather report about every other day it changes it seems like but hey have been saying it was going to rain [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] Saturday afternoon but now we are under a big high [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] or high pressure [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] so we're um we're going to be stable for a while they say through Sunday [speaker001:] oh good [speaker002:] yeah that'd be [speaker001:] maybe we might get some of that it seems like there's a line there at Waco where it'll come to Waco and then go and we won't get it [speaker002:] uh-huh yeah [speaker001:] or it'll go up as far as Waco and then move over and Dallas won't get it [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] you know but uh I hope it will be pretty this weekend I I can't wait cause it's rained oh I know for the last four or five weekends here it's just been miserable and I want to get outside and barbecue [speaker002:] uh-huh um-hum exactly [speaker001:] that'll be fun but uh yeah I can't wait

[speaker001:] . [speaker002:] Where you on the li-, phone a long time? [speaker001:] Yeah, I've been sitting here alternately reading and watching television [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] You were, he was waiting for what again? [speaker002:] To, he called in to get somebody on the line, it took him about half an hour to find somebody. [speaker001:] That's what this was yeah, well, let me go a head and push one okay? [speaker002:] Okay. [speaker001:] Okay. Well, basically I like comedy shows [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] Uh, MURPHY BROWN, uh, DESIGNING WOMEN. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] Yeah what do you like? [speaker002:] Well [LAUGHTER], [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] we don't have a T V, I mean we have two T V -s but neither one of them work, [speaker001:] Oh, okay. [speaker002:] so for the last year, I mean we just got married and we decided well, for the first year we, we won't get a T V so I mean I'm totally out of it as far, [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] as T V goes. [speaker001:] That's okay we'll been married eleven years and, um, we went through that after about five years of marriage, my old T V that I had from college when we got married finally went out and we went, we made it almost about eighteen months without a television. [speaker002:] Really? [speaker001:] Yeah, but then all of a sudden when you get one you realize, um, gee [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] I needed that, you know, and then you get to remote control the stereo phonic, [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] whatever all of those things, [speaker002:] V C R, and everything else. [speaker001:] oh, yeah, and then you never use the V C R, and now we have two of them and now it's like we're just glad we never went out and bought a compact disk player cause we wouldn't use it [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Really. [speaker001:] Yeah, I mean it's cause your never home, you know, you're working, you're at school. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] Well, I don't know T V shows, what can I tell you, um, basically junk that's on television [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] That's my opinion yeah, um, I like things like I just mentioned, have you ever seen MURPHY BROWN, or anything like that? [speaker002:] I don't think so [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] You don't think so, oh, that's the one with Candice Bergen in it, um, [speaker002:] Well, see another thing was I worked on second shift for like a year and a half, so. [speaker001:] Yeah, that would do it. [speaker002:] I would never see any shows any way and then before that I was in college for four years and I never watched T V then because I didn't have time. [speaker001:] Right, nobody does yeah, then, uh-huh. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] I know. [speaker002:] I mean I did watch T V it was soaps and M T V cause the girls I lived with never changed the channels. [speaker001:] And the, uh, well I don't, you're probably at least ten years younger then I am but I could tell you in school that, uh, the only thing that ever saw in the dorm was, uh, the one soap opera, ALL MY CHILDREN. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] And until then I never paid attention to soap operas. [speaker002:] Me too. [speaker001:] And to this day twenty years later I'm like, I'm in my thirties, I'm not that old, but I'm going, jeez, I can't believe that thing's still on television [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] I know, I mean I al-, I almost got hooked on it cause everybody would took about it at dinner and everything else it, you know, it was like. [speaker001:] Yeah, they, you know, about the only other kinds of things I like, um, I like to watch a lot of news, um, don't you miss that with not having a television so far? [speaker002:] Um. [speaker001:] How long has it been since you've had one? [speaker002:] Well, about, almost a year. [speaker001:] Oh my God [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] Yeah, you've got about another six months and then you'll get one [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] Well, [speaker001:] By then, [speaker002:] I mean I never really watched it much growing up but I thought, you know, my husband would really like miss it because he, he was an only child and he wa-, he's seen a lot of T V. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] And I figured oh, no it will never last but. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] I mean I don't miss it that much. [speaker001:] Yeah, my husband is an only child too and he did miss it that's kind of why we got back after eighteen months, [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] That's funny. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] and I'm trying to think about the only other show I watch. [speaker002:] I've seen CHEERS probably five times and I've seen CROS-, COSBY SHOW probably ten times. [speaker001:] Yeah, [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] I like COSBY, L A LAW is probably, I've seen CHEERS more then that I hate to admit but, uh, [speaker002:] It's pretty cool I like that whenever I watch it. [speaker001:] CHEERS? Yeah, I thought it was good, I've actually been to that bar in Boston it's a nice, you know, it's a pretty funny show. [speaker002:] Oh, you have? [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] Yeah, I've heard it's pretty cool. [speaker001:] It's just a, you know, over priced [LAUGHTER] downtown, [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] Boston yuppie, you know, [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] tourist attraction. I'm trying to think what else is on television, I know it's like. [speaker002:] [Breathing] I watched a lot of T V when the war was on. [speaker001:] Yeah, who didn't? Isn't that sad? [speaker002:] And then, uh, I like watching a lot of like college basketball and, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] and pro football, I mean that sounds kind of stupid but, [speaker001:] Oh not, no, [speaker002:] I do like it. [speaker001:] I like the pro, actually I like pro basket ball as opposed to, I watch pro football but I like the N B A play-offs, [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] back when like the Pistons were in them and now, where are you calling from? [speaker002:] Uh, Sherman, Texas. [speaker001:] Sherman, Texas, oh, [speaker002:] Where are you from? [speaker001:] I'm in Dallas I was just saying where am I calling you from, you know, well then I don't know if you like the, the Mavericks or not, they haven't been that good this year. Um, we're supposed to talk about television let's see [LAUGHTER], you don't have a T V. [speaker002:] So, are you really from Texas though? [speaker001:] Yeah, I'm talking to you from Dallas, uh-huh. [speaker002:] Well, sounds like you're from up north. [speaker001:] My voice you mean? [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] Oh, no, that's just because I've moved around and, uh, [speaker002:] Oh. [speaker001:] I'm originally from Pennsylvania, so. [speaker002:] I was going to say. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Cause I wondered if you really, you know, if had any teams you like watching from up north or something. [speaker001:] Uh, actually I'm a big Chicago Bears' fan. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] Real big and, uh, um, I always watch them no matter who's on, of course you like them too, right. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] Do you? [speaker002:] Well, I'm from Indiana. [speaker001:] Oh, okay. [speaker002:] Yeah, so I like the Bears. [speaker001:] Yeah, there you go, and then [LAUGHTER], [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] and, um, I'm trying to think what else I like to watch on television sports wise. I like, [speaker002:] I watch, uh, huh. [speaker001:] I like tennis so I mean I'm not, I haven't played in years but, um, I just like to watch, you know, [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] two players really get, go at it, [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] It gets boring after a while but I don't, go ahead. [speaker002:] I wa-, used to watch OPRAH a lot in the afternoons, [speaker001:] OPRAH [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] before I went to work and stuff and I see her every once in awhile like if I go workout at T I, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] you know, they have those T V -s right, [speaker001:] Yeah, on the, [speaker002:] in front of the treadmills, [speaker001:] on the tracks yeah, is sh-, [speaker002:] I don't know she's not as good as she use to be but, [speaker001:] Maybe cause she got chubby again or something, [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] her disposition's gone downhill. [speaker001:] Was she, was her show big when you where in school since you haven't been out that long? [speaker002:] Was what? [speaker001:] Was her show big when you where in college, since you, [speaker002:] Oh, yeah. [speaker001:] haven't been that long? [speaker002:] It's pretty cool, [speaker001:] Was it? [speaker002:] I mean back then and the show, did you see the show where she lost all of that fat? [speaker001:] Yeah I saw reruns of it, [speaker002:] She pu-, she wheeled it out on a cart. [speaker001:] I saw tapes of her [LAUGHTER], yeah. [speaker002:] That was so cool, and then man she's really porked out again I guess but, [speaker001:] Gee, I know isn't that terrible. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] I know I guess with that money who cares [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] I don't know. [speaker002:] I'd eat too. [speaker001:] Let's see what else is on television. Oh, if you don't have a V C R we just got one after nine years don't even spend your money on it. [speaker002:] Really. [speaker001:] Yeah, cause, you know, if you like movies like we do you do it once in awhile and then, you know, you see it when it first comes out if you really want to see it and then it usually comes on television within two years. [speaker002:] Yeah, we got, [speaker001:] You know. [speaker002:] we've got the dollar Cinema in Sherman so we usually see like first-rate movies, [speaker001:] Yeah, [speaker002:] right away. [speaker001:] really, that's television I don't know in general on this project we're suppose to talk [LAUGHTER] about so I mean, [speaker002:] Yeah I'm sorry. [speaker001:] That's okay, [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] don't, I mean, I, I always. [speaker002:] Well, it's hard to talk about something, it's like me talking about taxes or something, [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] I feel bad cause I mean, [speaker001:] Oh, that's okay. [speaker002:] I should know something about T V shows. [speaker001:] I had one lady one time they called in I just signed up my husband had been on this project, um, and I, I, she called in and it was all about, we don't have children and it was all about, um, sending your kids to college, [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] and why you would advise them. And she was from Boston, and she, I shouldn't talk about this but she was, [LAUGHTER] pretend she was a television show, and sh-, she was very snooty and, uh, her kids were going to places like Amherst and B U and I said I didn't know what that was I she went, oh, and I thought, um, so I know, [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] I mean it's like don't worry about it television at least, you know, everybody's, [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] at least seen television. During the war did you laugh when they had that man on, uh, what was his name Wolf Blitzer? [speaker002:] What was that? [speaker001:] That guy that was a reporter for C N N. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] His name is Wolf Blitzer. Did you see it, him when he was doing the coverage of the Gulf? [speaker002:] Um, I might of. I forget. Was he the guy that got captured? [speaker001:] Uh, no, that was the other guy from C B S, oh, [speaker002:] Oh. [speaker001:] what was his name, uh, [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] I can't remember [LAUGHTER] his name. [speaker002:] Yeah, but what about this Wolf guy? [speaker001:] Yeah, but just th-, they made jokes about him like on the CARSON SHOW and all of that, [speaker002:] Oh. [speaker001:] Jay Leno. [speaker002:] You know, what my absolutely favorite show is? [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] DAVID LETTERMAN. I love that guy. [speaker001:] Yeah, he's funny. [speaker002:] And SATURDAY NIGHT LIVE, I use to watch that like I'd come home from second shift and watch him like for an hour and a half, he's great. [speaker001:] Yeah, SATURDAY NIGHT LIVE has changed a lot if you haven't seen it in about a year. [speaker002:] Huh-uh. [speaker001:] I mean I haven't seen it in a couple of months but, [speaker002:] Has it gotten better? [speaker001:] [Breathing] Uh, yeah, actually I think it has, I mean they finally like and some of those people they really have funny characters on there. [speaker002:] Really. [speaker001:] Yeah, they have one character on there they just call it Pat and they, you don't know if it's a man or a woman [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] And they say well, they're trying to deduce what he or she is, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] so to see if it's a female they say well do you carry a purse and Pat says no I carry a fanny pack [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] So you still don't know because a fanny pack is man, or now days, you know. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] Yeah it's weird [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] That's funny. [speaker001:] Yeah, it's, yeah it is pretty funny I mean they do some crazy things. [speaker002:] Like when WAYNE'S WORLD, I love that. [speaker001:] Yeah, WAYNE'S WORLD, hey man [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] And what's that other one where they, [LAUGHTER] where they do the, um, skits, well, you've must have seen it recently? [speaker002:] Well, I don't know, I've seen it off and on, I think. [speaker001:] You probably have some friends that have television [LAUGHTER]? [speaker002:] Uh? [speaker001:] I said you probably have some friends that have television [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Yeah, yeah. That's where I've seen it because I've seen it off and on probably. [speaker001:] You know, I mean you're not totally out of the loop. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] I mean, yeah. [speaker002:] We, we bug our we, you know, one friend of ours got rid of his because we motivated him because we, you know, cause we were getting along out ours so he sold his. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] But the rest of our friends we go and watch them. [speaker001:] Yeah, I mean you really, you can do without one but after awhile it will start, um, you know, I mean you just kind of all of sudden cause you're going well jeez you hear about something that somebody else talked about, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] and you just end up doing it but if you haven't been married that long, you know, [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] you're doing other things [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] Is that on tape? [speaker001:] Is that on tape, [LAUGHTER] there you go, yeah. [speaker002:] That's funny. [speaker001:] Oh, my what else is on I don't know what did they watch in college when you where in, where did you go to school? [speaker002:] Oh, Purdue. [speaker001:] Oh, that's a good school. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] Yeah, I know about that. They don't have a southern accent up there though. [speaker002:] No. [speaker001:] You must be native Texan? [speaker002:] Why do I, [speaker001:] Well your from Indiana, yeah. *your should be you're [speaker002:] Do I have a southern accent? [speaker001:] Oh, real southern, yeah. [speaker002:] Are you serious? [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] I've been here three years. [speaker001:] Deep one, you have a deep one, yeah [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Oh, wow, that's scary. [speaker001:] It is, um, at Purdue I'm trying to think, I went to high school in Chicago, I'm trying to think what Purdue kids watch. [speaker002:] We watch, uh, M T V twenty four hours a day and then every now and then they'd DAYS, they taped DAYS, you know, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] and watch it like four or five times a day. [speaker001:] Okay. [speaker002:] That's the girls I lived with and, you know, other then that I'm sure they watched, [speaker001:] Do you know that I've never, I think other then accept on a commercial or on news coverage or something, [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] like entertainment tonight I've never seen M T V? [speaker002:] You aren't missing anything [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] That's kind of what I've heard [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] It's pretty bad. [speaker001:] I mean that's, yeah. [speaker002:] Especially if you have kids. Don't let them watch it. [speaker001:] Yeah. No we don't and I wouldn't even I mean I don't even have cable I don't think it's worth ten to thirty bucks a month to pay, [speaker002:] No. [speaker001:] somebody, uh, to, you know, give me a hundred and fifty, um [LAUGHTER], [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] channel access to something I'm never going to, I mean my neighbor her husband sits in front of the television all of time and they've only been married five years have a cute one year old kids I swear to God he works from eight,

[speaker001:] Okay, while I was waiting for you to connect, I, I thought of a couple of menus, so I decided it had to be in it, informal or not. You know [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] if it's informal I'd probably choose something, I mean, just like hamburgers or steaks out on the grill *slash errortwo utts [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] because that's a lot of fun, especially this time of year where it's so nice out. *sv [speaker002:] Yes. [speaker001:] Um, if it was formal I'd probably go with something like a chicken breast or lasagna or something. I'm not [LAUGHTER] I'm not into formal dinner parties, but [speaker002:] I see. [speaker001:] I'd probably go with lasagna, a green salad, and garlic bread. [speaker002:] So what do you use for cookbooks? [speaker001:] [Breathing] Um, I have a PILLSBURY cookbook I got when I was married, but, it's kind of the bible of cooking [speaker002:] Uh-huh, uh-huh. [speaker001:] for me. Then I have some from like church that are more family recipes that are more useful [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] You know, budget cookbooks, but [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] and, of course, you get a lot from when you're growing up. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] Um, I cook a lot the same as, as my mom did, of course I've added several [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] different recipes, but, what you serve or what would you [LAUGHTER], [speaker002:] Well, I, I, I think we come from, from different backgrounds, uh, so the, [speaker001:] Well, that's good [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] I, I, I, so, it diff-, you know, have different perspectives that you are. I find the JOY OF COOKING to be a remarkably useful book [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] to, to fall back on, because it has almost everything in it. But on the other hand, it's not very inspiring, uh, it's a good reference when you need to dig something up. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] What we've found very useful is a book called THE THIRTY MINUTE COOKBOOK, I think that's the title, by Marion Burroughs [speaker001:] Huh. [speaker002:] uh, which has recipes which allegedly can all be prepared in thirty minutes, you know, the whole meal [speaker001:] Yeah [speaker002:] and so she's [speaker001:] that would be wonderful in these times [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] yeah, now, now, I, I find that the cutting up of the food, and all that really makes it take a little longer than thirty minutes. [speaker001:] Yeah, either they're really fast or [LAUGHTER], *slash error [speaker002:] But they're, but they're, but they're interesting [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] they're interesting menus, um, combinations that you wouldn't have, nobody thought of. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] Um. [speaker001:] What's one of your favorites? [speaker002:] Um, gee, the one I had most recently was, was one that, was, ha-, she, she describes as Jim Beard's favorite, um, summer menu, or something, and it consisted of, of grilled kielbasa sausage [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] uh, a potato salad with olive oil, and uh, some tomatoes that had been chopped up with onions and curry powder and probably some yogurt was in there. [speaker001:] Wow, sounds too good. [speaker002:] Uh, and that, and that was, you know, that's, that, that's certain you can do in thirty minutes. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] But there are a whole lot of, you know, I mean, I, I would recommend you look at that book [speaker001:] Yeah, that THIRTY MINUTE COOKBOOK. [speaker002:] if you're a busy person. THIRTY MINUTE COOKBOOK. [speaker001:] That sounds fun. I find a lot of the cookbooks that, I don't know, that you buy over the counter ask for really strange ingredients, or things I don't keep on hand all the time [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] and I have young children, and our budget's set, you know, at this time, but I want to use simple recipes that [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] I have things on hand, I don't have to run to the store to buy or look for something I haven't heard of [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Yes, yes. [speaker001:] That's why sometimes I shy away from, uh, more of a traditional cookbook [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] but, [inhaling] well, it was interesting talking to you. It's a fun subject. Food is one of my favorite things too. [speaker002:] Yes. [speaker001:] Anything else you wanted to add? [speaker002:] Well, you had said dinner, you know, you know, what would I put together for a formal dinner. We, we had some friends over as recently as Saturday night [speaker001:] Oh, wow. [speaker002:] and, and, um, put, here, here the inspiration was a combination of Julia Child for the dessert, you know, a chocolate mousse recipe [speaker001:] Uh-huh, that's good. [speaker002:] and a sort of cookbook which has a recipe for a thing called chicken marabella [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] um, which is this wonderful thing you can do, um, basically you're baking, baking chicken in a, in an open pan, um, having marinated it first and, my wife did this part so I don't remember all the details [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] marinated in olive oil and some seasoning, um, and cooked with some olives and some, and some prunes, uh, there's a little bit of brown sugar in there, and it bakes up and it's a delicious thing, and it's easy [speaker001:] That sounds good. [speaker002:] comparatively. So. *slash error [speaker001:] That sounds really good. [speaker002:] Um. I'm sorry, I just love [LAUGHTER], [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] It sounds like you guys are a little more gourmet than I am, I'm pretty simple right now, but. [speaker002:] Well, maybe a little more leisure time [speaker001:] Yes [speaker002:] to do it. I don't know, [speaker001:] that's probably, that's true, I have little ones and we, and they won't eat, you know, too many different foods [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] right now. [speaker002:] I found my kids were very frustrating when they were little [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Yes. [speaker002:] in terms of their tastes. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] Well, there again, sometimes it was easy, they'd, you know, canned ravioli was, [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] one of their favorites, and so it was easy to [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] open a can of ravioli. [speaker001:] Spaghetti's a pretty [LAUGHTER] staple every other week or so [LAUGHTER] [speaker002:] Yes. [speaker001:] and it goes a long ways too. So. *slash error [speaker002:] Well, nice talking to you Cheryl. [speaker001:] All righty. [speaker002:] Okay. [speaker001:] Talk to you later maybe. [speaker002:] Bye.

[speaker001:] okay I um to let you know what I feel about drug testing uh I have my qualms about having the government or anyone else for that matter testing randomly everybody across the board for various drugs however I am not against [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] testing those people who are in critical uh jobs for example airline pilots subway drivers you know people who are responsible for other people's safety [speaker002:] right for uh for uh uh a larger number than just their own personal safety [speaker001:] correct I just think that it's [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] uh unnecessary and really the medical testing facilities that are available now have been shown to have problems in the past as far as reliability is concerned [speaker002:] huh [speaker001:] and uh we have had situations here where people were accused of um uh utilizing drugs and uh it turned out they were on some other medication which was giving false positives [speaker002:] right right and the same goes with uh you can eat poppy bagels poppy seeds [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] and they'll come up as a as a positive for drugs as well which is I you know I'd I'd just heard that uh just recently and I thought that was interesting [speaker001:] uh uh do you more or less follow on the same lines as I do or [speaker002:] yeah I I do I um I have a little problem with somebody testing uh for drugs just in general as an invasion of privacy uh but I do agree with you or regarding people that deal uh with groups of other people that their lives should be they should feel a little more safe and there should be more of a safeguard you know air traffic controllers airline pilots uh anybody that deal with the public in a uh I don't know what uh a fashion that their lives are in their in in their hands [speaker001:] yeah I I know that they were up here in New York um uh I've noticed what they have been trying to do the governor here isn't thrilled with the idea and we have uh [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] various government officials here who basically don't feel that is a good idea for along the same lines but they're continuously clashing with the federal government which because of it's antidrug war [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] um figures well since we're not really accomplishing much of anything internationally let's make big headlines by going out and being for mandatory drug testing and [speaker002:] within the community [speaker001:] yeah and and that way we'll we'll nail those nine to five worker users without really solving the problem of trying to really do something and through education and that [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] yeah they the federal government seems to be a lot more aggressive about this um [speaker002:] that's [speaker001:] than uh anything else it's interesting that you find out with all these little scandals going on now such as in the house with the post office cocaine scandal [speaker002:] right yep [speaker001:] you know all that um [speaker002:] well did you hear about the uh what was happening in the Boston area uh for I guess for about the past five they've been testing babies for AIDS [speaker001:] uh oh really [speaker002:] but not releasing the information [speaker001:] yeah I [speaker002:] they were just testing to find out how prevalent it is uh in what demographic and segments of the population but they weren't telling anybody if they did it when when the results came up positive or negative they weren't telling anybody [speaker001:] hum well their sure they were probably afraid of being sued [speaker002:] well I'm sure and also bringing light to the fact that they weren't getting parental permission for it [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] they were just doing this test [speaker001:] yeah it's one of these slippery slope issues where once you start by allowing this kind of randomized drug testing it's the same thing with the lie detectors [speaker002:] yep [speaker001:] and uh the physiological test tests that go on um really I think you know we are seeing more and more of privacy taken away um courtesy of the federal government as time goes on because of the almighty rights of the employer to know every possible thing about their employees [speaker002:] yep [speaker001:] and uh at times it's hypocritical as well because those in positions of leadership that want these things certainly don't want them applied to themselves [speaker002:] right exactly they want to they want to be just above in that regard [speaker001:] uh yeah I I I don't know how much you've had experience as far as in the newspapers coming across people who have gotten into trouble with the drug stuff here in in Rochester Rochester [speaker002:] no [speaker001:] in western New York there hasn't been a terrible lot but we of course hear about the subway drivers in New York City [speaker002:] yep [speaker001:] who slammed into someone and of course you know the airline pilots are rumored you know there are already rumors of rampant alcoholism now cocaine usage [speaker002:] uh well there's always there's a standard joke about the Northwestern pilots [speaker001:] oh yeah wasn't that that thing in Minneapolis or something when they were supposedly smashed out of their minds and then flew or they had their light [speaker002:] yeah

[speaker001:] so you don't oh uh random drug testing is kind of tough because it it involves this kind of uh trading off of of our individual civil rights for some kind of concept of uh furthering a common good almost you know there there's a there's a there's a trade off of our civil rights against I guess our employer's right to to having a good job or something [speaker002:] uh I don't don't really see the employers as having a whole lot to do with it I've already it the um privilege of being a victim of random drug testing I spent four years in the Marine Corps and had to pee in a bottle on command [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] and it was really a really aggravating and time wasting thing to do um the thing that I really hated most about it was the total waste behind it all they would get maybe between fifty and two hundred and fifty of us together and it would you know we'd lose the whole morning what is that that's a thousand man hours uh to go go through this and in the end they would just be shooting for trying to catch a few specific people it really aggravated me I wasn't happy with it at all in fact after I got out I made the decision that I would not work for a company that did that um it just doesn't seem right that a company would do something like that I can appreciate um concern over somebody being under the influence while they're at work but they could easily be under the influence of alcohol or any number of other things as well [speaker001:] yeah uh well that's that's a good point the only uh the only thing I really disagree with is and and this isn't this isn't exactly disagreement with I'm not sure that drug testing is strictly aimed to catch people but I would think that it also acts as a deterrent if someone if someone knows that there's a threat that that they might get caught it might be that much more of an impetus to to stay away from from whatever the drug is they're they're on [speaker002:] now that's implying that um as a punitive kind of a thing as well you definitely want to discourage that is that kind of what you're saying [speaker001:] well I mean I would think that uh if someone knows that there's there's an even greater chance that they're they're going to get caught um having drugs that that that that would act to discourage them that it would um you know if you know dad's in the other room perhaps you're going to be less likely to steal the the cookies out of the cookie jar because he might be coming in any minute you know [speaker002:] yeah well I guess that's a good policy then if uh you're definitely for eradicating drugs from society I'm not so certain that that's a a worthwhile goal right now it looks like there's a lot of problems with um you know keeping drugs illegal things that are really scary a lot of people are dying and there's a lot of bloodshed and that that disturbs me I live downtown and uh man [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] right diagonal across from campus is uh Teakwood Homes it's the oldest housing project in the country Roosevelt opened it and man there's shootings in there nightly and if it wasn't for the uh you know the the high profit margin I don't think it would be going on I don't think that uh we'd have the crime over there that we do and man it really spills over into the neighborhood here as well there's at least one nasty bloody violent crime per year um over here where one of the students is a victim [speaker001:] well the the uh the mayor of Baltimore is a Rhodes Scholar and I I forget his name but one thing that he suggested doing was taking the money taking all the money that he gets for uh uh fighting the war on drugs and use it for like drug education to to open up the methadone programs to get the people off drugs that that wanna be off drugs um [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] in thinking that that it's we're not doing a good job at fighting the war you know in in trying to crack down on people that are using drugs maybe legalizing them and and trying to help those that you know having the resources there to help someone um would be a better idea but and and I agreed with him somewhat I could see his point but uh Switzerland opened up a um uh a park [speaker002:] is that the park yeah [speaker001:] and and for years it just kept getting worse more and more people kept coming to the park and it just kept getting worse and worse and worse until finally the Swiss have they decided to close it down [speaker002:] yeah I just saw that in the news here recently [speaker001:] so uh I don't know it mean it sounds like it sounds like there aren't going to that there isn't a perfect solution [speaker002:] yeah it really is a dirty mess very difficult to come to conclusions I guess one uh one other data point is the old um prohibition here in the US the consequences of that and it's ultimate uh repealment [speaker001:] that's a good point that's a good point and although although alcohol consumption did jump right after prohibition it did come back down [speaker002:] yeah and it's funny how today in movies and all we really glorify those gangsters and that lifestyle it's kind of spooky [speaker001:] yes we do we do [speaker002:] I guess I guess even today in today's movies a lot

[speaker001:] go ahead Vickie [speaker002:] well um I had planned a very successful cousins reunion I have a lot of cousins and I did that several years ago in fact it was so well received they've been really having a pi fit for me to do it again [speaker001:] um-hum I've never actually got to plan one but I've came to several back here in Tennessee that uh were planned long distance with people you know because my immediate family is like five states [speaker002:] um-hum um-hum [speaker001:] and they've all turned out pretty good and this time we're here for my mother's eighty fifth birthday [speaker002:] good oh how neat [speaker001:] and we had a big dinner today about thirty people and [speaker002:] uh-huh is it going to be over a several day period or was it over several [speaker001:] uh well the birthday was today and tomorrow one of our nephew's one of my nephew's is getting married so a lot of people came from well to Florida Virginia and Texas and Tennessee here for that for both occasions [speaker002:] um-hum um-hum um-hum well that's kind of nice to be able to do that to for both occasions my my uh family [speaker001:] so it's been [speaker002:] um my father's family uh he had five or six oh I let see six brothers and sisters and uh when my grandmother died we found that we were not getting together except um just when somebody died [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] it was only funerals and so it was kind of sad so about I guess it was about two or three years ago I planed this cousins reunion and how I my my cousins even though we're all fairly close there's only two or three of them that's out of town and out of state uh I we didn't keep in close contact and there were sometimes well let's see one one family had five and one family had four children and the rest of us were you know like two and three and uh so I just sent to the oldest child in each you know uh in each family uh my oldest cousin in every family to uh to send me their brother's and sister's names and addresses and their names of their spouses and I got good pretty good response from that had to do a little phone work and then I just sent out a real neat little memo to everybody and one of the cousins helped cook the meat the meat and everybody brought a dish and uh I it just worked out really really well [speaker001:] I I'm actually one of sixteen kids so and only nine of those kids belong to my mother [speaker002:] oh my word um-hum [speaker001:] and they were all here in Tennessee today the first time we have all been together for a snap shot in well forever it's been in my memory yeah [speaker002:] well I I can imagine it's hard to get that many people together [speaker001:] the last time we had a legitimate family reunion one of the sisters couldn't make it so [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] everybody had pictures of everybody together but her [speaker002:] oh shoot well how often do you all do you have try to have like reunion [speaker001:] so today we well it's kind of like your family sometimes it's just funerals and and and special occasions but the last family reunion was in eighty five and I'd like to see another one get going [speaker002:] um-hum um-hum um-hum um-hum [speaker001:] I was going to you know now that the subjects been brought up uh about five years ago it was actually I didn't get to attend this but I was so wanting to but several of my sisters had got together with some other people in the neighborhood we grew up in [speaker002:] um-hum um-hum um-hum [speaker001:] and we had a community park and of course we all rode the same buses and stuff and they had a block or like a community reunion and [speaker002:] um-hum um-hum um-hum oh well that's that would be fun uh-huh [speaker001:] I didn't get to attend because I was in the process of moving to Texas over that same weekend and uh but they said you know it was a blast and they sent me pictures [speaker002:] uh-hum [speaker001:] it was you know people we grew up with and uh people came from all over the place to get back for that one [speaker002:] um-hum well I don't know about you but neighborhoods just aren't like that anymore and if you can you know get together with an old neighborhood like that that is really neat [speaker001:] yeah I would love to I mean I just love to you know stories about the kids I grew up with but uh I'd like to see I'd still like to see them yeah [speaker002:] um-hum oh sure and and to find out what happened to everybody right um-hum [speaker001:] well at the time you know all I could do was tell them hey well Sam's moving from New Mexico to Texas and this that and so the other so [speaker002:] um-hum well one of the fun things I did was when I sent out my invitations I mean they weren't like invitations I just did it on a on a plain sheet of typewriting paper and I took old photographs of my cousins um when they were little real little and just did kind of a collage [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] on on that you know and just just printed it on uh a real good copy machine uh you know you they weren't really good pictures but that you could tell who everybody was and it [speaker001:] yeah um-hum [speaker002:] and everybody got a big kick out of that because there were a lot of pictures that I had that nobody else had had [speaker001:] hum a few years ago my wife's family and they're off in a little town in Missouri and uh [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] they planned it for several years and actually had a book made of peoples stories and where people went and photographs that went back about two hundred years and uh and of course [speaker002:] um-hum oh that would be fun uh was that it wasn't that wasn't a genealogy book or [speaker001:] it was no it each each family that lived in [speaker002:] it was it was different than that

[speaker001:] all right Sandra uh what we are supposed to talk about this morning are and I I can tell that you're must be an expert child care services [speaker002:] yes yes [speaker001:] and my my first question is what criteria is normally applied by parents when they are selecting child care what are they looking for in other words [speaker002:] well well in my experience um I've never I've been fortunate enough to be able to stay home with my children but um I have given day care to other children and those that have come asking me to give you know to tend their children um I guess it depends on the parent whether they're looking for a preschool type situation where they want the children to learn you know different skills and um school type things or whether they're the children are younger and they just want somebody to be there loving and nurturing [speaker001:] um-hum what age would you say uh a child should be before you could start applying this business of teaching them a little bit preschool information we talking what six or seven or four or five [speaker002:] hm um in my opinion I would I'm would feel that four at the very earliest I I think that children need to learn how to get along with one another and to play and to be creative and and to [speaker001:] uh-huh they do seem to have a very much improved uh intellectual sort of a spirit they're bright they look around and and they they know what's going that's that I guess that's as important to say [speaker002:] yeah I agree yes I agree in fact a lot of the kindergarten teachers that I've spoken with said that they would prefer that preschools [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] per se would be done away with and that the children just had a chance to you know develop the social skills that they say the the kids that come to school that have been to the preschool type settings [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] um are are almost far enough ahead that they're bored with school [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] and they need to learn to get along but um have you ever had children in day care [speaker001:] I'm trying to think uh yes we've had uh our children in day care a little bit but not much I the interesting comment I was going to make was that when my children grew up I felt very normal and uh [speaker002:] um-hum um-hum [speaker001:] with them and I didn't consider a lot of these little details that we're talking about [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] but now that my grandchildren are growing up I look at them in a totally different style style [speaker002:] oh oh [speaker001:] I I watch very closely their activities when I see them and like and I can tell when they're speaking more clearly the next day and and when they are understanding situations more carefully [speaker002:] uh-huh oh [speaker001:] and I I don't remember doing it maybe I did automatically with my own children but I'm I'm just looking with a much higher technical detail at at the grandchildren [speaker002:] oh oh uh-huh maybe you have more time as a grandfather oh oh [speaker001:] well I wish I did I'm still working but I'll be retiring soon it it's it's just that uh with grandchildren they are for a short period of time and you just look at them and you absorb anything you can from them and uh [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] you start reviewing comparing when you get from them with what you got from your own children [speaker002:] huh-uh oh [speaker001:] but it was really a different environment [speaker002:] oh yes how many ooh that's been what probably twenty twenty years ago [speaker001:] something like that [speaker002:] yes [speaker001:] well let me ask you this is it difficult to find a day care when you have a a specific criteria of your own is that is that hard to find [speaker002:] um-hum um-hum I think it is in fact I know that um around here one of the major problems that the working mothers have said they have is they will find a day care provider and then she will stick with it for oh you know five six months and then have something else come up and so then they are looking again for another one unless they go to the commercial day care providers and I know in the community I live in a lot of the mothers prefer just to have their children go to someone's home and I know that that's um there's a risk with that with the insurance and and different things like that but I know most of them prefer to have their children just in a a mother and child home type environment [speaker001:] I see uh-huh um-hum [speaker002:] so um I guess it just depends on what you're looking for and whether you mind if it was myself I would rather have my children in that type of environment rather than the the big commercial day cares just simply for the fact that there's so much illness that the little ones pass around and and you you know that type of a thing and the um [speaker001:] that's true yes [speaker002:] and I don't know what the one to one or you know what the ratio is for the adult providers and the children but I would think that if you had a small group it would be [speaker001:] sure [speaker002:] that would be my preference anyway so [speaker001:] well my my daughter my oldest daughter lives in Amsterdam Holland [speaker002:] oh [speaker001:] and they have over there what they call a creche [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] and so her two children go to this creche which is a an all day well about a six hour

[speaker001:] okay I don't think I've ever met anybody that thought they were paying too little taxes [speaker002:] I haven't either I know I pay too much but [speaker001:] so so I assume that we're going to agree that we all pay too much taxes [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] but then the question is are we getting what we pay for and and I think we don't [speaker002:] well I I agree I agree [speaker001:] I think we pay far too much for bureaucrats and pork barrel projects [speaker002:] right absolutely I fortunately we don't have state income tax I know you guys do and [speaker001:] right well I lived in Texas for a long time so I was really hit hard by the nine percent California tacked on to the government's [speaker002:] and it's heading that way though oh gosh well I think in within the next few years we're going to have it here they're trying [speaker001:] yeah I know Texas uh just raised their sales tax again because uh I was visiting in Houston over Christmas with my mother and uh uh I went bought a few things and I think your sales tax is higher than ours now [speaker002:] yes I know we're just taxed uh-huh probably is I'm telling and I pay enough in I pay income tax that some people make and it really just tears me up I can't believe how much I pay but and for for what I don't know what I get for that [speaker001:] yeah well I really do believe that there are huge quantities of money wasted on unnecessary unnecessary uh bureaucracy and on just flat stupid things [speaker002:] I do too I do too I know there are [speaker001:] we have we have uh hundreds of thousands of dollars going to uh people to supervise people who supervise people who supervise people and when it all comes out they don't do much supervising anyway [speaker002:] yes you know and I know it or uh uh who cares about the sex life of a tsetse fly and why do we have to have you know [speaker001:] well actually as a matter of fact that sort of research I think is worth spending some money on because the uh basic research really is what's made our country uh get to where it is in its ability to compete [speaker002:] right and I don't mind spending on on defense either uh that doesn't bother me at all course I work in a defense project company so naturally I'm for it but [speaker001:] no well I you I don't mind spending on defense for things that work but I mind having people uh uh people spend money to create five thousand pages of documentation to order something [speaker002:] yes right right and you know those companies that that say they you know the [speaker001:] this is crazy [speaker002:] uh seven hundred dollar six thousand dollar toilet seat in reality it probably really does cost that because of all the paper work the government requires that you have to go through to make that toilet seat to sell it to them it probably does cost six thousand dollars [speaker001:] yeah exactly yeah I think the six hundred dollar toilet seat is probably a legitimate expenditure given what the government requires of the manufacturer the manufacturer's probably not making very much profit on that [speaker002:] yeah right uh no and no no [speaker001:] but the probably five hundred dollars of that toilet seat is going to uh ridiculous kinds of of paper work and supervision [speaker002:] uh-huh um-hum um-hum I know absolutely [speaker001:] um are are you familiar with the Grace Commission [speaker002:] no what is it [speaker001:] well I don't remember exactly when when that started but it was back in the early eighties I think uh Peter Grace of WJ Grace and Company was uh appointed by I believe Reagan to um [speaker002:] uh [speaker001:] create a commission to investigate government purchasing and expenditures and see if there wasn't a way to save money [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] and he came uh he and his group of course he didn't do it but he got people to do it came up with a a whole book's worth of recommendations for making the government run more like a business and he said that you know the the kinds of things the government does even in renting space would drive a business bankrupt [speaker002:] um-hum um-hum [speaker001:] and uh people purchase things because of the rules that require them to buy certain kinds of things in certain ways [speaker002:] right right [speaker001:] that are totally irrational they buy more than they need or less than they need or many times as much as they need in little quantities when they ought to be able to um [speaker002:] yep [speaker001:] you know deal like a business and uh get things in quantity that will uh you give them a discount [speaker002:] um-hum right [speaker001:] they ought to pay their bills on time one thing the government does is is stretch out the payments so that they end up paying penalties for things that the government could have paid for the minute it was due and taken the five percent uh credit for early payment [speaker002:] right right I know that [speaker001:] anyway there was this whole book that came out and I read some excerpts from it and every single thing they recommended was so eminently eminently sensible and and [speaker002:] I know they just [speaker001:] it just astonishes me that we have not put more of that into practice [speaker002:] I know it I know it just mind boggles your mind when you think think and it's it's scary to think that these guys are up there running running our government that that approve of all this stuff [speaker001:] and everytime right and everytime the uh Congress changes and people move offices they redecorate the whole office they spend half a million dollars on the Speaker of the House to renovate an office that had been [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] redone less than three years earlier [speaker002:] I know it isn't that sick isn't that that's our tax dollars [speaker001:] and then they come up with these crazy projects to do things like spend seven hundred thousand dollars to make Lawrence Welk's birth place a shrine I mean I do not need a national park around Lawrence Welk's birth place [speaker002:] I don't either [speaker001:] and I can think of a whole lot better things to do with seven hundred thousand dollars [speaker002:] I know it but you know what can you do there's really I don't even I really don't what know what we can do about it uh the ways to other than [speaker001:] well I don't think it does much good but I write my Congressman all the time I've got a congressman who is very concerned about uh uh irrational expenses and who is a real fiscal conservative [speaker002:] responsible um-hum um-hum that's good [speaker001:] and and so one of the things I do is donate money to his campaigns and uh write to him when I see things that outrage me [speaker002:] uh-huh well t hat's good [speaker001:] and uh I don't know that it's going to help any but if he got uh if if a lot of Congressmen get that kind of input from their constituents maybe they'll do a little something [speaker002:] um-hum something be done maybe yeah that's a key is maybe I know I uh I [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] donate to work we have uh a thing to you can donate but of course what we're donating our uh political party that we're dono donating is whoever is is for the defense department you know of course our defense budget that's who our money our money goes to we really don't have any say so [speaker001:] yeah well I'm in favor of spending money on a strong defense but not of wasting it and some of the things that we do uh like have [speaker002:] I wouldn't either [speaker001:] three different kinds of incompatible computer equipment for the three services it's just dumb [speaker002:] yes yes that's dumb [speaker001:] there's no reason why we shouldn't have somebody take a look at uh all of the things that the various services use and make them interchangeable [speaker002:] absolutely I just what's wrong with that I [speaker001:] then the same spare parts can be used in in uh Air Force planes and Navy planes maybe [speaker002:] that's right yeah yes I know [speaker001:] oh [speaker002:] I can't understand but I know our company my property tax goes up all the time I'm right at DFW airport so we're we [speaker001:] oh yeah [speaker002:] we should be getting a tax break because we get all the town I live in gets all of the uh revenue from DFW because it's in our city limits but [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] it doesn't all it's they're just building these great big fancy homes and uh uh taxes are just going up and up but course my property the value of my home's going up too so that doesn't hurt that's always good [speaker001:] um well that's good but that's that's small comfort because it doesn't bring you any income until you sell it [speaker002:] that's true you got that right [speaker001:] now we don't have uh property taxes going up as much as you all do because we had proposition thirteen that says uh once you have had your house appraised then they can only raise the taxes [speaker002:] you got enough's enough [speaker001:] I believe it's two percent or maybe it's three percent a year uh until you sell and then it's reevaluated [speaker002:] that's great oh okay well that's a good idea [speaker001:] uh and that's that helps people on fixed incomes and older people who have houses that have gone up in value a lot but who don't want to move out of them [speaker002:] sure yeah I keep reading where they say in in in Los Angeles area where the the property thing is just going to bust one of these days you know or and San Francisco too I think the prices prices of real estate is so high [speaker001:] well the prices are so high I don't see how they can keep going up [speaker002:] no I don't and they say that it's going to come you know a lot of companies are moving out of California because they can't afford people can't afford to live there to work there so they're moving I know Silicon Valley they say is just [speaker001:] yeah well I'm in Silicon Valley and they uh the the reason that the prices have gone up so high is that there just isn't anymore land left to build on most of the [speaker002:] oh are you oh [speaker001:] surrounding land is all uh in preserves of one sort or other and it can't be developed so there's very little property that hasn't already been built on [speaker002:] oh okay um-hum oh okay [speaker001:] and one of the problems our city is having is that uh with all of the environmental requirements and the antidevelopment people taking over the city council we've driven out some corporations which were paying a lot of our taxes [speaker002:] um-hum yeah oh okay [speaker001:] and so now they're going to have to assess us because they we've driven out the businesses that were paying the freight [speaker002:] yeah now that's a shame [speaker001:] yeah for instance we have the Stamford Shopping Center which was uh paying oh I think it was about a quarter of our [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] uh city budget because of the sales taxes that were collected there and in this recession a lot of those businesses have had poorer receipts and so their sales taxes have dropped and we're about a million dollars below budget [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] primarily because of the sales tax drop off and that uh and also Hewlett Packard was uh headquartered headquartered here and so everything that they sold the sales taxes uh were paid [speaker002:] oh okay um-hum

[speaker001:] so [speaker002:] uh do you work outside the home [speaker001:] um I did until my company went bankrupt [speaker002:] oh poor baby [speaker001:] yeah now right now I haven't been able to locate a job down here in Patterson [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] it's kind of a small city so I've been going to Modesto which is larger but it's not like being in the Bay area where I came from [speaker002:] uh-huh yeah [speaker001:] you know [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] but anyhow when I did work in the winter time I wore uh my wool skirts and sweaters and boots [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] because the Bay area gets kind of chilly in the winter time [speaker002:] oh yeah [speaker001:] and um then in the summer time I just wore you know the polyester blouses and usually usually pants and just uh heels you know [speaker002:] um-hum yeah [speaker001:] so uh where do you work at [speaker002:] I work for a bank and uh I have to dress somewhat more formally [speaker001:] oh okay right [speaker002:] so I I look like the little old lady preppie [speaker001:] you do you I don't suppose you can wear pants [speaker002:] uh no I I guess I could but I don't [speaker001:] oh because I never see anybody in the banks out here it seems like I never see them with pants on [speaker002:] no no we don't wear pants uh I I wear suits [speaker001:] uh-huh um-hum [speaker002:] uh almost exclusively [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] have you ever had a uh a color analysis [speaker001:] no no I haven't [speaker002:] uh well it's a very interesting process uh according to the lady that did mine she called them summer and winter [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] and uh spring and fall and the summer she said you could call them A B C D or one two three four or whatever [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] but there are people that look better in the cool colors than than the other people look better in the earth and warm colors [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] and uh most people are summers or winters and uh uh it's really an interesting process and I found out I was a summer so I look much better in the the blues pinks uh the the winters uh wear stronger colors but basically the same types of colors but as a summer I'm not supposed to wear uh black or stark white [speaker001:] oh [speaker002:] uh the winters just winters wear black and white and the summer uh the spring and and fall colors wear well I have a daughter in law that uh uh this the the camouflage colors the khakis and olive drab green [speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh [speaker002:] just make her eyes light up like crazy yeah and then I I also have a daughter in law who has auburn hair [speaker001:] oh really isn't that uh-huh [speaker002:] so she wears the earth colors uh the oranges and the olive drab greens and the khakis and and uh they're most becoming to her so it it it really is an interesting [speaker001:] uh-huh hum [speaker002:] analysis [speaker001:] yeah that would be interesting to do um I worked for a trucking company so we didn't really even have to dress up at all if we didn't want to we could wear pants all the time you know [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] but uh I just in the winter time I just like to wear boots and you know the wool skirts and the sweaters and everything [speaker002:] yeah uh-huh [speaker001:] but uh I've never gone to and had a you know [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] anything like that done to tell me exactly what color I would look best in [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] uh I know I don't look good in yellow but I like pink and blue you know and red [speaker002:] uh-huh uh yeah uh-huh [speaker001:] but uh I just look in the mirror and [speaker002:] yeah well reds uh I I have to have a red that leans towards the the blue uh in other words it leans toward the maroon [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] but the reds that lead lean toward the orange don't do a thing for me [speaker001:] um-hum um-hum [speaker002:] so I have to be careful about reds [speaker001:] uh-huh huh very interesting so do you have your do you like do you in Dallas do you wear wool in the winter time or [speaker002:] oh yeah oh yeah uh we have thirty nine an average of thirty nine days when it gets down below freezing and as a general rule at least oh [speaker001:] uh-huh um-hum [speaker002:] oh two or three days at a time during the winter we'll either have uh ice covered streets or two or three inches of snow [speaker001:] um [speaker002:] so uh I I wear woolens quite a bit [speaker001:] um-hum and naturally it gets real hot in the summertime I suppose yeah [speaker002:] oh yeah oh yeah it gets very warm in the summertime [speaker001:] yeah yeah it gets hot here in Patterson in the summer time more so than it did in the Bay area you know um like here [speaker002:] yeah yeah uh-huh are are you over toward Fresno [speaker001:] uh like um a hundred and twenty six miles from Fresno [speaker002:] uh south [speaker001:] but in the valley north [speaker002:] oh north oh I see I have not been I have not been north of of uh [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] uh what is it uh Interstate Eighty that goes from Sacramento to San Francisco [speaker001:] right uh-huh [speaker002:] I have not been north of that highway [speaker001:] oh I see uh-huh so you have came to California though do you have family [speaker002:] yes uh-huh

[speaker001:] okay uh Utah has a a good school system where uh as far as I'm concerned I can't really see the difficulty uh or any problems that we have other than they keep saying the ACT scores were a little low or lower than well we're above above the national average but they're talking in the newspapers all the time that we're not doing as well as other countries in science and math which I think there's been an effort to to increase that so I don't see that there's serious any serious uh problems with our school systems here in Utah uh what about Texas [speaker002:] oh I'd say uh we probably have what could could be described as serious problems [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] from uh gun toting kids to uh low grades on the teens test [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] they uh [speaker001:] well I hate I hate to hear it [speaker002:] they got a pretty much of a handful of problems to deal with [speaker001:] huh where the students are kind of controlling the the schools then in some areas [speaker002:] well I don't know if you could say that but they're uh are having to uh put in metal detectors and [speaker001:] oh boy [speaker002:] security and [speaker001:] yeah that's not good uh I'd hate to teach under those situations [speaker002:] indeed [speaker001:] well well that hasn't got here yet I hope it it doesn't but uh it I know we're we're starting to have a few gangs here associated with the schools [speaker002:] yeah that's bad news I tell you they uh [speaker001:] yeah but that's where it begins I guess [speaker002:] course it always sounds a lot worse than it is I suppose but [speaker001:] uh-huh but at least uh I I go into the schools quite a bit in my occupation the different high schools in the in the six western states that I I work in and uh generally from what I can see the uh we don't really have that type of problems in any of the states yet but I know talking to my uh counterparts back east that they're they have uh security guards that patrol the hallways and and that's not a good learning situation if you've got to have policemen there to keep kids in class and [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] so it sound like that's it's kind of getting to that point in Texas in at least where you're at [speaker002:] yeah they uh I don't know I think they uh they need to uh get back to the basics I think we [speaker001:] yes [speaker002:] throwing a lot of money at the problem but it hasn't uh seemed to do what's necessary yet [speaker001:] um-hum that's true and I I think that uh in in our Utah school systems we we've kind of reversed going from the social classes back to a lot of the academic classes that uh they feel is necessary and I think that is that's a good change to to get back instead of so many uh off the wall classes that have nothing to do with academic education you know education [speaker002:] I think learning social interaction is good too but uh I think it has to be a balanced curriculum [speaker001:] uh yes there does uh you can't uh go from one extreme to the other and there there has to be a balance there's got to be both there but I think it should be a little stronger on the academic uh portion in order to prepare them for the society today with the technology that we have they've [speaker002:] that's right [speaker001:] they've got to have a good math an english background in order to compete [speaker002:] yeah I don't think uh American schools in general are uh coming up to where they should be [speaker001:] no they're talking about uh in some of the states back here are going two hundred days a year instead of a hundred and eighty I don't know what your school year is there but [speaker002:] they're talking about going to year they're actually testing out we just had it on the news tonight about the uh year round school [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] they go for three months and then take a month off or something [speaker001:] we have a a there's a little of that going on here but it's all in the elementary grades it's not in the upper uh [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] in the secondary area but I it's there's some test cases to see uh if the students are able to if they don't lose as much uh they're able to retain more where they're only out for a month instead of three months and they have to go [speaker002:] exactly I think that was the uh thing they mentioned too [speaker001:] uh-huh so it sounds like uh in your area and this area too that they're trying to work on the problem that they see as a problem to correct the some some some of the situations uh

[speaker002:] well I always think I'm paying too much taxes how about you [speaker001:] yeah oh definitely seems like [speaker002:] although at least Texas doesn't have a state income tax yet I mean you know they keep threatening us that maybe there'll be a day that they're going to uh enact this I think uh the um other means of providing income for the state have been dwindling so they keep trying to say we may need a uh state income tax [speaker001:] yeah I think that uh we probably will have to have to uh have a state income tax because uh Texans don't approve of such things as lotteries uh uh well I I come I come here from New York and New York had a state lottery and it really raised a lot of money for the for the state [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] uh although we in New York we had to pay a state and a city uh tax and it was really a great relief when I got to Texas that I didn't have to pay that city income tax though [speaker002:] yeah makes quite a bit of difference in your uh well your income level you know because other states take chunk quite a bit a chunk out for uh city and state taxes so you're uh looking at your yearly salary it makes quite a difference [speaker001:] right it sure does make make a difference [speaker002:] a little more take home here [speaker001:] uh-huh do you live in Dallas [speaker002:] yeah Richardson area [speaker001:] oh you do oh [speaker002:] yeah I work at uh well mainly the Expressway Site is where I work [speaker001:] oh I do too [speaker002:] oh okay [speaker001:] okay and then you know too that uh taxes are are less like if you live in Mesquite [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] you know some people will go shopping in Mesquite at the malls out there uh [speaker002:] or up to Collin County somewhere that you're getting out of the um Dallas County area because what do we pay like eight and a half percent something like that for the uh sales tax [speaker001:] uh-huh eight point five um-hum [speaker002:] which yeah that really is pretty high [speaker001:] is it the same is it uh less in Collin County than it is in Dallas County [speaker002:] I think so although I really I don't go up there too much I mean I I normally just kind of go to Richardson Square Mall or Valley View Mall just kind of for the convenience uh [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] I guess maybe if I was going to buy a car or something maybe I would consider where I was buying it to try to you know save a little bit on that sales tax because on a car that really matters kind of mounts up [speaker001:] um-hum um-hum yeah it sure did and then once you could deduct at least some of that um off off your income tax and you can't do that anymore [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] it really hit me yesterday I had uh air conditioning service for my car done and I had a little little uh coupon special that was twenty two dollars for um air conditioning service where they [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] uh checked it and charged recharged it and put one one pound of freon in and if you needed another pound of freon they gave it it was like seven dollars and something and then with the with the twenty two dollars and the seven something it all came out to I I ended up paying like thirty four dollars and I couldn't believe it and it the tax you know really hits you [speaker002:] yeah yeah that's true although I wish I wish you know overall they'd try the lottery again when did you first come to Texas [speaker001:] um-hum and then oh it's been I've been here for nine years [speaker002:] okay well that's about the same time as me I came down in eighty two [speaker001:] really where'd you come from [speaker002:] um well Ohio kind of my parents live in Ohio I had lived a little while in Michigan but you know basically I went to high school and college in Ohio and lived there uh more years than I ever did in Michigan [speaker001:] oh uh-huh um-hum um-hum well uh I did visit uh Michigan I visited Kalamazoo once my sister used to live there [speaker002:] oh okay but you know when we first came down here I really thought this place was somewhat backward I mean I was just shocked that we couldn't shop on Sunday [speaker001:] uh-huh that's true I tell you what hit me the first year I was here uh Christmas eve in New York there used to be stores open the department stores wouldn't close uh [speaker002:] remember that [speaker001:] well I'd say they closed maybe eight or nine o'clock the department stores on Christmas eve but uh there were stores that you could go to uh you know like discount stores and [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] and stores down in the village and just all over the place where you could go to and you could shop till like twelve or one o'clock that night and that was like that was really the only night they were open that late but it was Christmas eve and when I came to Dallas [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] I thought I was going to do that Christmas eve and I couldn't find hardly anything open after five o'clock in the afternoon and I was oh I was I really I really was stuck [speaker002:] were you shocked like oh no I'm stuck I need to buy stuff [speaker001:] and I think Target was the one that stayed open later than anybody anybody else and uh I was able to pick up a few things in there but boy I was I was really shocked and then another shock I had well when I went to uh to buy a slice of pizza and found out that I had to buy the whole pie [speaker002:] uh-huh oh few places now seem to do it by the slice but [speaker001:] yeah now but they but back then they didn't when I first came no [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] anyway [speaker002:] well the the uh there was other things too I mean I think it's taken us Yankee's influence down here to get them to uh come to the the the you know the correct decade here and century um [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] I couldn't believe that you could have open containers of beer or alcohol whatever in the car [speaker001:] right right [speaker002:] I mean you could always um uh be careful about that back then because uh you know if you if a cop stopped you then you would um you know get arrested or whatnot and people would just drink openly [speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh it yeah and talk a talking about alcohol and beer look at the taxes on that and the taxes on a package of of cigarettes I used to smoke you know and uh [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] that would have been enough to to make me me give them up the price of them now but I gave them up couple a couple years ago because I had some sinus problems [speaker002:] oh well I don't smoke so I don't really know what the taxes are and stuff on it [speaker001:] well well they're like two or I I believe they're hitting two dollars a pack now [speaker002:] um [speaker001:] maybe a little bit a little bit a little bit more in some places [speaker002:] so you end up about paying about twelve dollars for a pack and two dollars of that is taxes [speaker001:] uh well I believe it's a little more than twelve dollars for a carton I think it's maybe thirteen or something [speaker002:] huh gee [speaker001:] uh because I remember we went to to Oklahoma to this this bingo place this Choctaw bingo uh a couple weeks ago and somebody that went with me bought a carton for uh uh ten dollars and something and they really thought they were getting a big discount [speaker002:] they're cheaper there [speaker001:] well because it's you know the Indians I don't think they pay tax [speaker002:] oh [speaker001:] in in Oklahoma [speaker002:] oh I got you okay [speaker001:] and uh it was a Indian it well it's a bingo hall for the benefit of the Indians there although I didn't see very many Indian people in there there were just bus loads of people that come from everywhere else to play that bingo because it's it's [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] the stakes are higher and payoffs are bigger and so forth I won a dollar yeah I had fun uh couple people on the bus won some money one one guy won two [speaker002:] well how'd you do a dollar oh well but you had fun playing right

[speaker001:] do you have uh personal experience involving child care services [speaker002:] well about the only thing I know is uh one of my um friends at work uh has um one little boy and she's about to have a second baby and I hear some of her um tales about trying to get uh child care now she doesn't like to use some of the places like um Kinder Care La Petite Academy she likes to just find individuals you know who take children into their home [speaker001:] right uh-huh [speaker002:] and uh you know sometimes they have found somebody by word of mouth other times she has to go through the newspaper and see what she can find there are some um like um oh Chamber of Commerce you can kind of call there are some places like that that will give you some referrals at least but she just kind of goes and uh meets people that she sees advertise and and interviews with them and ask them their [speaker001:] I have a friend at work yeah who whose wife does that she takes in kids and I think they're regulated by the state as to how many they can take in at one time [speaker002:] ways oh ah [speaker001:] so I'm not sure how anybody checks up on that but um I think there's a maximum number of kids that they can take care of at any one time [speaker002:] yeah there's been a few people that have kind of used the same person kind of like word of mouth one person in the department had them and then um you know other people had followed and had the same one as their child grows like some people only want little infants you know and when they get to two years old they don't want you know a whole lot of two years old because they're a little more active so they you know a lot people in the department seem to have used like the same couple of woman as their their children uh grow but [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] I really keep thinking that T I ought to come up with something like through Texins to have you know some kind of facilities there at work because it really is uh a lot of extra pressure on our working parents [speaker001:] do you think it ought to be subsidized by the company [speaker002:] no I think it should be done through Texans I mean I understand that [speaker001:] something you can sign up for and pay [speaker002:] that that TI wouldn't want to have liability for that and I can understand that I work in the legal department I don't want anymore lawsuits than what we got [speaker001:] sure right no I don't think that the company should be subsidizing services like that [speaker002:] but but you know I think they could work out something with Texans something that would be close to work because I think that would help ease things too if you've got your child somewhere close because I see these people you know dashing out the door um have to be out by a certain time because they have to go pick up their child if they don't pick up the child by a certain time then they run extra money you know to uh have late charges [speaker001:] sure [speaker002:] and uh you know Texins is is not uh well I don't think it's really directly supported by TI I think it has it's own kind of funding but something like that that you know you would have to be a TI or a Texins kind of um does it [speaker001:] yeah I think that would take care of any questions about competency for people running the show uh if say if you were in in a situation having to locate a uh child care center how old you go about determining whether somebody was competent or not take care of your kids I think that's a big question [speaker002:] well how would I do that [speaker001:] yeah you um pretty much by word of mouth uh somebody recommends somebody else but if you didn't know anybody uh how how lengthy an interview would you conduct with the person taking care of your kids to determine whether they're fit to uh handle it [speaker002:] well uh again I know from the person who um you know is a friend ever mine at work she and I I've talked to her after she's interviewed some people just really sound I mean bizarre I mean you can't imagine that these people are putting in for um you know minding other children um like if you could go to the house and it seems to be in a disarray and the woman really isn't even dressed and it's afternoon and and you ask her about you know previous children and she won't talk about it [speaker001:] yeah uh-huh [speaker002:] kind of go okay um others if they have some way of handling like I kind of wonder about these women who take in children there are times that you're going to have to do you know for the women they're going to have to do some personal things themselves I mean every single day they may have you know every once in a while they may have some kind of um personal doctor appointment or got to get the car fixed or something like that how do they do that so you ask them do you have a fall back you know for those times are you going to put me in a bind or do you have somebody else who can take care of the kids or do those things for you on the times that you need to you know have personal time off and do those items [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] and ask them you know who else uh have they you know baby sat for in the past and can you talk to them look at the facilities and ask them what kind of things they do to you know during the day with the child that kind of thing I guess [speaker001:] yeah there there are some services that uh that are very expensive uh for uh typically subsidized by uh large companies for some of their uh uh important employees [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] where if they can't get there regular uh sitter or a child care service to take there kids if they reserve slots with these other um companies um very expensive rates but they can drop their kid off uh at uh one of these places for so it I don't know what it cost but it's extremely expensive and the companies uh have to uh reserve X number of slots uh per year they can't send anymore it's it's pretty much for for their [speaker002:] hm hm [speaker001:] for their uh uh some some of their employees uh lawyers do that a lot um I've heard about this type of service in uh places like New York City where people are uh real busy but if uh [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] if they can't find the regular sitter they they if the company has uh slots available in this service uh these employees can drop their kids off there [speaker002:] hm oh do you know one time I um we just got married a couple of years ago and there was people that were coming you know into town with uh children and I wanted you know babysitters for uh the service and and available to them if they didn't want to bring their children or you know get away and stuff and I just called in the from the Yellow Pages you know a babysitter outfits that are um again must have some kind of licensing or whatnot and uh just had them I mean what I did was I had a babysitter during the service you know and and um anybody who had children could just you know take the child to the nursery and I had somebody there everybody I knew was going to be at the wedding so I knew I had to find somebody I didn't know to do that [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] um and it worked out okay I didn't know that there were services that you just called the Yellow Pages and uh there's babysitters are us or something and you say please I need one you know oh yeah no problem we'll send you out one [speaker001:] great uh-huh do you have any idea what uh what the regular uh uh services cost like La Petite or Kinder Care [speaker002:] uh I thought I checked into it one time just pre planning and it can run like a hundred dollars a week I think my friend who now has a uh uh a two and a half year old she spends about fifty to sixty dollars per week for him so I think it's anywhere from like fifty to a hundred depending on the place you take [speaker001:] I guess you have to weigh the financial benefit of having somebody else take care of your kids if uh the working wife can uh make uh more than enough to handle that expense I guess it's worthwhile [speaker002:] yeah yeah it gets to be kind of expensive and I think you know some of the woman do uh weigh that um we've had some that have had their children and not come back so it just depends I think uh well we have one now who um is is part time she works half days well actually we have two one paralegal and one secretary and one attorney each have very young children and now they are part timing it is kind of like a test to see how this will work to have these people work part time [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] uh depending on the responsibilities that we're giving them and to see how that will workout because they all want to you know still have a little income to help out financially but they want to spend time with their children so they're part timers [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] and it for the one that's working with me it's working uh very well I don't have any problem with that I have one that's um helping me out at um for the litigation we're doing and she's there uh three days a week and this that seems to be fine I can handle that very well with her being there only half time [speaker001:] uh-huh I know some woman who are very career minded as soon as they have their kids they're back at work the next week but [speaker002:] next week [speaker001:] yeah pretty much so but other other than that I know some also who's claim is that after they have their kids or started having kids they're going to quit their job and uh dedicate their time to raising the kids right according in in putting it in their words [speaker002:] oh [speaker001:] and staying at home so I don't know I guess each way has it's advantages [speaker002:] yeah well it's whatever they feel comfortable with you know basically whatever they feel best and there's probably some women who may not do their child any good being there all the time because you know they they they can't uh quite see themselves you know dedicated that much maybe they want to work a little bit whatever it is maybe they should think about do you really want a child or not [speaker001:] uh-huh yeah good question [speaker002:] and maybe again you know their their you know their ideas change once the baby is there they go oh well you know now I like this a lot more than I thought I would [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] but uh Cathlene the part timer she says you know she just doesn't she she's always one of these workaholic kind of people and she just really can't sit still enough to just be home with the baby she has to have you know something else she's always been one who's put in you know like the fifty to sixty hour work week and after she had the baby she was coming back in to check her office and to check her in box you know like ten days later she was back in and we were like Cathlene you got two months off you know you don't have to be back in there she's just always back in there and she's a she she just finds it very hard to um you know tone that down even though she's a part timer she still will put in time on Saturday [speaker001:] uh-huh

[speaker001:] up here in Rochester uh we're the second cleanest metropolitan city as far as air pollution I think Grand Rapids was number one uh we really don't have too much of a problem as far as uh industry since we're pretty technologically based as far as our industry in the city here but we do have the same problem a lot of are other areas up here in the northeast have and that is the effects of acid rain [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] coming coming basically from coal plants in Ohio and Illinois and Indiana [speaker002:] well that's that's that's true actually down here we don't have a big problem with uh with air pollution mainly because we don't have anybody to the either side of us uh which helps out a lot as far as that goes I wouldn't even necessarily thought of that except when I lived up in Boston and up in uh you know debates would come up up there in Massachusetts and you know in that area over uh air pollution and their attitude's basically well prevailing ins winds are to the east so why should we have to worry [speaker001:] yeah I've I've uh was in Los Angeles once and that was quite a difference as far as pollution goes I mean you couldn't really see that much every once in a while we have these air inversions the weather [speaker002:] oh yes nothing [speaker001:] inversions and then it gets hazy around here but they're really we don't have a big problem with it I think that uh what most of the people here in New York state are going after right now is it's it's the uh ongoing acid rain problem especially out in the uh uh Adirondack areas where you know the lakes are becoming uh changing the acidity of the lakes and we're having problems now because the fish are dying and certain acidic loving plants uh or alkaline liking plants are just not lasting anymore because the soil levels the p H is changing [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] as this acid rain continues to fall and I know that there's been battles over the states up here uh you know Governor Mario going after you know governors of Ohio and and Indiana to fix what's going on down there I remember when I was in Florida the only problem was that it seemed like it may it wasn't really pollution just the steamy weather [speaker002:] oh absolutely yeah just muggy so yes I think you're yeah I think you're right our most pollute substance down here is just water but uh [speaker001:] yeah it [speaker002:] hey I I I think you know the biggest causes though even then a lot of times are uh uh like when I was up in Boston just all the cars you know all over the place you just got a lot of you know a a lot of pollution from those and uh you know if you don't have a wind it sticks around [speaker001:] oh yeah I you know I was in Boston once and I remembered seeing some of these things coming through at rush hour even with the tee um just this it looked like billions of cars massing [speaker002:] absolutely [speaker001:] and if they sit there and then there's nowhere for the air to go I mean yeah that's what's in you know Los Angeles is I think that's biggest problem because when I was in Los Angeles for a time it's all you know from Los Angeles to San Diego it's like all city [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] and there's really there's nowhere for this to be absorbed really um tree planting sometimes can handle you know stopping some of the air pollution and that and help but if you have nowhere to do anything [speaker002:] that's that's very true uh you know of course then when when you're not recycling you've got these incendiary plants and stuff that can be some pretty disgusting stuff going up in the atmosphere but I you know you've you've got you've got the industry you've got that and you got the cars and I think the cars are where where it's at right now as far as pollution goes air air pollution I mean [speaker001:] yeah I you know Florida doesn't seem to be at least maybe Miami but I I uh you know Fort Lauderdale I I don't know what the big industries are down there uh but you know up here we have Kodak and that's the worst polluter they put uh [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] uh you can smell ether in the air sometimes keeps the neighborhoods happy I guess [speaker002:] I I guess so [speaker001:] uh cause they clean the uh the lenses for cameras and they they make film here and they're the worst offender but you know sulphur dioxide is the big emittant from them but that's really getting under control now [speaker002:] right I you know I I don't know in the air down here what they do uh I I haven't run across any major pollutants down there that I I I've really seen a lot of you know upsettedness about uh I I I know I've seen like uh my grandparents live in Corpus Christi Texas and I know they've there's a lot of refineries down there and and that's that's some pretty potent stuff they can put up in the air [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] I but I don't know how uh yeah there's a difference in what you can smell and what you uh you know what's bad [speaker001:] be interesting to see when as Mexico develops industrially whether you know without

[speaker001:] Well, I'm talking to you from Dallas. What part of the country are you in? [speaker002:] [Talking] Oh, boy, this is going to be tough, I'm in Plano [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Well, we can, uh, complain together or swear we can complain together about the humidity [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Exactly. I guess the weather hasn't been too different between us. [speaker001:] No, I don't think so, I wouldn't think, yeah. I, [speaker002:] W-, what part of Dallas are you from? [speaker001:] Far north Dallas [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Oh, north Dallas. [speaker001:] Yeah, about a half a mile from Plano [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Well, jeez. [speaker001:] So we're in the, [speaker002:] Well then you've been getting quite a bit of rain also. [speaker001:] Yeah, it's been very, very rainy, I know. Oh [speaker002:] How about that. How does it compare to the years past? [speaker001:] um, I don't know, I haven't lived here, let's see, we m-, lived out of state in Wisconsin and we just c-, we lived here ten years ago, and when we first lived here, we l-, we were in Garland, East Richardson, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] and, um, doesn't seem like it was quite as humid. [speaker002:] Oh. [speaker001:] And, I don't know, then we went, we lived in, uh, Madison, Wisconsin for five years, um, for my husband's schooling, a-, graduate schooling, and it just, it's a lot cleaner up there, but, um, it's a lot colder too. [speaker002:] Huh. Well, what brought you guys down to Texas then? [speaker001:] Uh, his job, he came back to start work again for a different company, so, said, [speaker002:] How about that. [speaker001:] Here, here's a g-, here we are again. [speaker002:] That's great. [speaker001:] It just seems a little more humid than it, I don't ever remember, of course, you know, you only remember the good stuff, but, um, I just don't remember the humidity. [speaker002:] Right. Well [speaker001:] This much rain, and this much humidity. [speaker002:] definitely, I'm sure, the winters are more mild here. [speaker001:] Uh, yeah, they are. Actually, though, it was a lot rainier here in the winter, uh, we came back last August. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] It's just a lot rainier than I remember it, all th-, through the seasons, you know. [speaker002:] Sure. [speaker001:] Um, [speaker002:] It seems that progressive, I've, been down here five years, just over five years now, that, every spring and summer seems to get more and more rainy. [speaker001:] Yeah, and I think it's because it's just getting more crowded and more polluted. I really do think that's part of it. [speaker002:] Huh. [speaker001:] Um, uh, in, in Wisconsin and Minnesota, when they get winters it's, um, th-, the winters are bad, but not what you hear about. It's just like down here, when you hear, when people here think it's a hundred and six, people up north think it's a hundred and sixty down here. [speaker002:] A hundred and sixty. [speaker001:] Hundre-, I'm making that up. [speaker002:] Uh-huh, right. [speaker001:] You know, when it's only like ninety-five. [speaker002:] Sure. [speaker001:] Um, it's just like up there, when you hear it's forty below, it's probably really only five below. [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] Um, and it's so dry, that it's, it's like going to Ar-, well, probably what y-, Arizona used to be like, you know, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] it's just dry and cool, so it's not, it's not what you think it is. [speaker002:] True. [speaker001:] Um, no, there have been times, though, when it gets so frigid that you [LAUGHTER], [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] you can't stand it. Where did you move here from? [speaker002:] Colorado. [speaker001:] Well, there, you could talk about that, that's, [speaker002:] Oh sure, I, I'm uh, [speaker001:] that's a strange state for, [speaker002:] I'm very familiar, my grandparents and all my relatives are from Wisconsin. [speaker001:] Oh, there you go, okay. [speaker002:] So, I'm, uh, quite familiar with how it is up there, and if you, kind of interesting, uh, the people down here typically don't think it gets above, you know, fifty degrees [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] This is very true. [speaker002:] And it's always snow, you know, but, uh, [speaker001:] Yeah, right, well actually, the summers up there, we thought, were the most beautiful time of the year. [speaker002:] Oh yes. [speaker001:] Um, in terms of Colorado, I know my husband likes to camp and backpack and all the stuff I don't like, um, [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] but I'd, used to go on, I worked for a mortgage company in Wisconsin and I did a lot of business in, uh, um, Colo-, well, Denver, and that's, that's probably one of the stranger things, when you see the air inversions, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] and then you go into the mountains and it's snowy and col-, uh, it just was a very mixed bag in terms of Colorado. [speaker002:] Oh sure. My parents just live, uh, thirty miles south of Denver and it can be sunny and, and no problem in Denver and they'll be having snow [throat clearing]. [speaker001:] Isn't that strange? [speaker002:] So it's pretty amazing, it can be that drastic in just a short distance [throat clearing]. [speaker001:] Yeah, and then things like torn-, are there tornadoes in Colorado, yes or n-, I don't, [speaker002:] Uh, it's getting to be more and more of a possibility. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] It used to be no problem, just because it was such a, a rugged terrain and with trees everywhere, but now, [speaker001:] The mountains, yeah. [speaker002:] as they start to clear more things out. [speaker001:] Even, I mean, I'm originally from Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, and I can tell you that, um, they've even had, in eastern Ohio and western Pennsylvania, they've even had, I'm going to say, mini tornadoes for lack of a better word. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] And, and that's just a part of the country that it's rolling hillside. That was unheard of, you know, twenty years ago. [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] Um, so I don't know what's happening, if it's, you know, we are, the greenhouse, I don't really know. [speaker002:] Yeah, me neither. [speaker001:] It's just, you know. [speaker002:] But, [speaker001:] It's definitely not as, um, I know I associate the pollution with weather in general, so I guess one thing we do miss, is that's a smaller town, and it w-, it was, it just seemed a little bit more pleasant in terms of the atmosphere, you know. [speaker002:] Sure, sure. Well, it's been good talking to you. [speaker001:] You too. [speaker002:] Good-bye [talking]. [speaker001:] Okay. [speaker002:] Good-bye. [speaker001:] Bye-bye.

[speaker001:] Okay, um, now the term personal computer, uh, I don't happen to have one at home. Um, but I do have a personal computer on my desk here. [speaker002:] A type of work station? [speaker001:] Yeah, uh, yeah, just kind of, it's kind of a kluge that was pieced together to, to, uh, shall we say bypass the formal procurement process. And, uh, it, it works just fine. It says it's a monochrome monitor, Panasonic printer, uh, no big deal, it, it does the things I need for it to do. [speaker002:] Is it a two eighty-six or three eighty-six base machine? [speaker001:] No, it's not even that. [speaker002:] It's eighty eighty-eight? [speaker001:] Uh, I think that's about where it is. [speaker002:] Okay. Uh [pause], what type of, uh, utilizations do you make of it? Word processing obviously. [speaker001:] Uh, yeah, I do that, I, I do, uh, some Lotus on it. Uh, do some, uh, Samna, some, uh, P F M, uh, nothing extremely complex. [speaker002:] Okay. Uh, I use them both here at work and at home. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] And I have I B M clones in both cases. [speaker001:] Yep. [speaker002:] Here at work I have the T I one thousand which is a three eighty-six base mach-, machine. [speaker001:] Oh, yeah. I bet that's a pretty nice setup. [speaker002:] Yes, it is. Uh, unfortunately I need all of it. [speaker001:] Yep. [speaker002:] Uh, for example, I was messing around with a spreadsheet this weekend that's a third of a meg in beta size. [speaker001:] Wow. [speaker002:] And that, I know that, uh, brings an eighty eighty-eight machine to its knees because [LAUGHTER], I had taken it over from a friend who was working on it and he had a two eighty-six machine, [speaker001:] Yep. [speaker002:] and it brought it to its knees. [speaker001:] Wow. [speaker002:] Just in the ability to handle. And then I have, uh, a three eighty-six F X a sixteen bit machine, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] at home. And I'm really pleased with it. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] It manages to take care of all my home needs in terms of word processing and spreadsheets and, [speaker001:] Sure. [speaker002:] uh, databases, database searches. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] Uh, what I've gotten into more recently are the tools to use them. Have you, [speaker001:] Yeah. Yeah. [speaker002:] To try to make them more effective and useful. [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] Have you been, uh, struggling along those lines? [speaker001:] Well, um, I seem to always be in the, the next to the last generation of word processing software. When everyone was in Samna I was still in P F M, and now that I finally become proficient in Samna everybody's going to WordPerfect. So, I can never quite stay current with that. [speaker002:] Well, I think you will be real pleased to get away from the banana as I used to call it. It's, uh, I used it on, uh, some other machines in days gone by and was real pleased to leave it. It was a real memory hog when you started making large blot changes to it. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] The, at least the version I had tended to keep copies of that. [speaker001:] Oh. [speaker002:] Of what you were changing and deleting off in memory until all of, all of a sudden you got a disc full error. [speaker001:] Huh. [speaker002:] Not a fun thing to try to recover from. [speaker001:] I can bel-, [speaker002:] Very frustrating. [speaker001:] I can believe that. [speaker002:] Uh, but again I've been dealing with large files both data and, and otherwise. Uh, that was a engineering spec on B two. You come here with the B level of specs? [speaker001:] No, not really. I'm not that up be on that sort of thing. [speaker002:] Well, it's just a huge file that tries to describe the requirements of what you're trying to build. [speaker001:] Oh, okay. [speaker002:] Uh, to one level down from assistant description. [speaker001:] Oh, okay. Okay. Oh, well, it sounds like you're pretty much into computers. [speaker002:] Well, I sure need them. Uh, there's no way that I could begin to process and keep up with the kinds of information or the magnitude of information that I need to, to try to do my job without them. [speaker001:] I can believe that. Well, it's, it's been interesting. [speaker002:] Yes, uh, maybe you'll play around some and figure out how they can help you do different things. I think that's when you, you start deciding that you really need greater assets than you already have. When you start seeing what all they can do for you. [speaker001:] Yeah, of course, needs and wants aren't necessarily the same thing. [speaker002:] Well, I understand that [LAUGHTER], you know. if, needs and wants were the same I'd have a four eighty-six machine at home [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] I wo-, is, is that the newest thing now, the four eighty-six? [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] That, that must be a fairly recent release. [speaker002:] Uh, that's, came out around the first of the year. [speaker001:] Okay, okay. Because I, I had done capital packages for two eighty-sixes and three eighty-sixes, but I didn't know they had a four eighty-six just yet. [speaker002:] It does a few more things, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] uh, than had been available before. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] But I'm not sure that it's such a massive improvement. Uh, you know, once you get passed thirty-three megahertz, all help is, kind of lost in the, in the translation. [speaker001:] Sure. [speaker002:] Because you no longer can think that fast anyway. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] Well, okay. I enjoyed our discussion. [speaker001:] I did too, and you have a good day. [speaker002:] You do the same. [speaker001:] Bye-bye. [speaker002:] Bye.

[speaker001:] Okay, um, I guess we're going to talk, describe, uh, job benefits, and so what do you think, next to salary do you rank, is the most important job benefits? [speaker002:] Uh, I would say the medical, uh, group insurance area [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] as far as, uh, covering medical costs for yourself or family members. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. Well, um, does your company have good benefits in that, in that regard? [speaker002:] Yeah, I think, I work for a public school system, district [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] and, uh, so it's different than a company where most companies fund almost the entire thing, where the school district does, um, the employee must pick up a greater figure in the way of, uh, costs. [speaker001:] Oh, yeah. [speaker002:] But overall, um, I've been pleased with it over the years. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] I think the biggest frustration is because of the cost of insurance going up every year, our district has had to alter, uh, you know, change companies, or now we're on a managed care thing, which has stressed a lot of people out [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] although it has not disturbed me any. [speaker001:] I see. [speaker002:] How about yourself? [speaker001:] Uh, well I'm, my medical coverage is with an H M O [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] um, so, that's, in my opinion, that's get-, that's bordering on a health clinic, but it seems to be a good way to maintain costs and still provide a good amount of coverage. [speaker002:] Right, yeah. [speaker001:] Um. [speaker002:] Our district did that for the ninety-one and the ninety school year, or calendar years, and I was in the H M O, and, um, I was because my, my same doctor, you know, agreed to be in it for, uh, they usually sign a contract or something [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] and, um, uh, I did have surgery last summer and I paid ten dollars when I went to see him that first day, and I've never seen another bill, so I [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] I have to say it really works. But, again, I was fortunate because my doctor agreed to be in it. Uh, if you've been going to a doctor for, you know, ten years or something and he elects not to join, it can be very stressful for [speaker001:] Yes. [speaker002:] you know, those people. [speaker001:] That's right, yeah, I'm, I'm fairly young myself, I've only been, when I first started working which, three years ago is when I first got into full time employment [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] and, uh, at that time I immediately joined the H M O, and I never really, so the only doctor I, I've kind of consistently had has been through the H M O, and, uh [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] you know, for me it's worked out real good. [speaker002:] Right, but if you, you know, have a family and, and, um, everybody's gone to different doctors, uh, it is hard to give up somebody who you feel knows you and your body and your, just has, you know, all the medical history and you feel comfortable with it. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] I, I'm sure it would be very stressful and, my husband and I have just elected that if that happens, I will go and just pay. You can continue to go to your own doctor [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] but your benefits are not as, you know, good, so, uh. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. Yeah, um, like you, you mentioned you work for a school system. I work for, uh, Georgia Tech in the [speaker002:] Oh, all right. [speaker001:] research branch, and I guess another one that, that I rank up there high is the, uh, kind of job flexibility and time off, um, I enjoy as a benefit. [speaker002:] I do too. Are you talking about like Spring Break and, [speaker001:] Right [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] yeah, getting a lot of breaks [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] between quarters and that, and having a lot of vacation. [speaker002:] It, it really, um, I don't think most of our teachers, now I'm not a teacher, I am a secretarial executive assistant, but I don't think the teachers could stand the stress [LAUGHTER] all, all year long [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] frankly. It is just, Texas has really, um, you know, they want everybody educated, no matter what it costs, uh, and it, it would be just, we all look forward to, like in two weeks we have Spring Break, and [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] I don't know who looks forward to it more, the students or [LAUGHTER] the teachers and the staff. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Right. [speaker002:] What do you do there? [speaker001:] Well, um, I'm not actually on the teaching faculty, but we have a large research organization associated with the university, and that's who I work with. [speaker002:] Okay. [speaker001:] Um, and we're given, you know, a good bit of flexibility in what we do. We can kind of pursue our own interests in terms of the research areas that we study. [speaker002:] Well, that's good. Yeah, I would think that that type of employment, you're, you're, one day you might be really tuned in and the next day, oh, a little luke warm or something [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] and, um, it's good that they allow you that. [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] It, um, as I say, the schools, now we do have to work, you know, the day, but we do get many days off, and, uh, we all look forward to it. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] That's the only reason I work there, is that my children now have graduated, and graduated from college but at the [speaker001:] Oh, yeah. [speaker002:] time, I worked there because my hours and days were the same as theirs [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] and, uh, I've just continued to, uh, stay there. [speaker001:] Are there, are there any things that, that you'd like to see changed in terms of the, the benefits?

[speaker001:] so is your tax situation pretty straightforward or not straightforward at all [speaker002:] yeah actually actually uh mine's real straightforward um basically uh you know I take my standard deductions um on my house which I have a mortgage on [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] and uh that's usually the big the big payoff part of the year for me because I get a couple thousand dollars back usually [speaker001:] oh that's nice [speaker002:] but uh actually I uh I don't really begrudge uh the uh the government their due I do I do think that uh probably just like just almost anybody else that you know there's a lot of inefficiency in how they distribute taxes [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] and I don't think that they uh they do a very good job of distributing them to the people who really need them but uh [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] generally I think they're pretty necessary and life would probably be a lot worse if they didn't have taxation so [speaker001:] right I don't have any problem at all with income tax some of the property taxes are well I don't know if they're unfair they're confusing and I there seems to be less ability to get those all together [speaker002:] yeah we actually we actually had a situation here where uh our house was appraised you know every year by the county [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] and we have to uh pay taxes on the basis of what that appraisal was [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] and first year we owned the house um that appraisal was something like twenty five thousand dollars higher than we had just bought the house for [speaker001:] really [speaker002:] and so uh despite you know a lot of kibitzing by our neighbors and stuff I decided to go in to uh talk to the Board of Equalization [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] uh in Prince William County and make sure that you know a mistake hadn't been made and all that kind of stuff and so I just sort of made my case on the basis of um you know analogy to other to other houses around us that were similar in terms of [speaker001:] you just bought it right [speaker002:] square footage you know and size all and and you know general property size and things like that and just just showed that you know our obvious for some reason our property had been valued much higher [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] and uh they bought it they actually reduced the uh reduced the appraisal [speaker001:] really they didn't raise the they canceled your neighbors' taxes [speaker002:] uh they didn't raise my neighbors' yeah they actually reduced mine to be in line with uh a more reasonable appraisal [speaker001:] that's really great [speaker002:] so I you you know I I realized well the you know few instances you can fight city hall on things like property taxes but uh [speaker001:] that's wonderful [speaker002:] yeah it was it was an interesting experience because the guy before me went in and he had a really kind of poorly organized discussion you know I mean he was sort of mad at the world and uh he he had sort of that that mad at the world attitude right off the bat which you could you know see a mile away [speaker001:] right um-hum [speaker002:] and then he uh then he started talking about all the things that were wrong with this property you know like you know the leaves hadn't been cleaned out in two years and the gutters are falling off and you know a lot of really minor stuff [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] that just didn't impress these guys at all and they sort of gave him a hard time but uh you know when I pointed out that that our house was appraised at this and all these similar houses in the subdivision were appraised at you know twenty five thousand dollars less I mean [speaker001:] right and you just bought yours that's the best argument I think [speaker002:] yeah so it it it worked it was actually pretty uh pretty satisfying satisfying experience [speaker001:] that's wonderful [speaker002:] but it was it was kind of like going up to the Pope though you know I mean they they uh were sitting in these you know at these giant judges tables you know like [speaker001:] I bet um-hum oh it was a it was a [speaker002:] it was like a judge's chambers that that you [speaker001:] really wow it wasn't it wasn't the county council [speaker002:] it was the it was the county but it wasn't the council they have different people on this Board of Equalization I don't know I don't even know how they get on it you know I I'm just guessing they're appointed [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] uh one of the guys is actually a kind of a well known realtor around here so you know I I figured if anybody gave me a hard time it'd be him you [speaker001:] um-hum right well he did he probably knows it really well the real estate market [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] so that was probably help [speaker002:] but other than that uh I haven't had too much too much problem with taxes actually when I was in grad school I lived in Virginia also I went to school down at uh Charlottesville and uh [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] uh I had a you know one of these graduate fellowships [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] and fortunately it was not taxable at that time [speaker001:] right now it is [speaker002:] but they actually they actually hassled me over it though [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] and I had to I had to go to some length you know I actually got one of these letters that that said you know you got to show up at the local you know IRS office and explain [speaker001:] oh you got audited wow [speaker002:] yeah and actually explain you know what was going on and you know I just I said hey I mean it's tax free I mean that's my understanding of things so anyway eventually they they accepted that that it was but actually work I work with a guy now who's I I I guess he was right

[speaker001:] well what kind of pets do you have [speaker002:] at the present time we have none we intend to purchase a pup in two months [speaker001:] are you you're married [speaker002:] yes [speaker001:] and newly married [speaker002:] no we've got uh we've been married forever about eight years eight years two kids that was just [speaker001:] oh sounds like us only we started off ours with we had we had pets before we had kids that's why I thought when you were saying you know we're going to have one in two months or something perhaps that you were newly married [speaker002:] no we've uh my we we've got a five year old but we've had one pet since we've had her but uh he didn't quite work out [speaker001:] hm [speaker002:] so um we are we've been now petless for a couple of years and [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] we're going to get another one this summer we're we've a got a vacation planned and we want to wait until we get back from the vacation before we [speaker001:] yes that's easier [speaker002:] bring a puppy in [speaker001:] are you going to get a dog [speaker002:] yeah yeah [speaker001:] that's what that's what we have is two dogs [speaker002:] what type [speaker001:] big dogs well our first at first they were our child substitutes before we had our children and we got one right after we got married we both decided we needed a dog we went to the pound and we got this mutt [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] and he's been it was alright before we had our kids it was he's just he's a real hyper dog he barks and and jumps a lot so we had him for a year and then my husband decided after we had him a year that he'd wanted for his entire life to have a Siberian husky [speaker002:] goodness [speaker001:] and I think why didn't you tell me a year ago when we got the other dog you know this was your dream of your life to have a Siberian husky so we got the other one for him and to keep the first one company when we were at work all day [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] so we have the the old the older dog's a male and he's he weighs about forty pounds and then Pepper is a year younger and she weighs about seventy pounds [speaker002:] yeah they're big dogs [speaker001:] so we have two massive dogs go through lots of dog food [speaker002:] yeah Are they primarily outdoor dogs [speaker001:] absolutely [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] I never wanted my husband wanted indoor dogs because he'd grown up with them but I can't stand it indoors I don't they shed and you know the mud and [speaker002:] and the scratches and the smell and the uh wherever yeah [speaker001:] oh yeah there for me dogs are meant to be outside [speaker002:] I firmly believe that large dogs are meant to be outside we had Danes when I was a child and um [speaker001:] goodness [speaker002:] and we had our Danes in the house [speaker001:] oh my goodness [speaker002:] but I mean it's almost dangerous to have them in the house [speaker001:] sure they're going to run you down [speaker002:] and uh we went through a time period that we had three Danes [speaker001:] goodness and all of them were in the house [speaker002:] we had yeah and we had we had had a litter and she had uh had thirteen puppies [speaker001:] hm [speaker002:] eight of which survived and uh and she we ended up keeping one of those puppies [speaker001:] I see [speaker002:] we had the mom the dad and one of the puppies and it was horrendous [speaker001:] yeah hm [speaker002:] we wound up getting uh getting rid of the mom selling the puppy and just keeping the dad because dad was the favorite one anyway [speaker001:] okay oh when I was growing up my folks we had fox terriers which are little bitty [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] they weigh about ten pounds [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] and so we had we had one for a long time and then oh gosh when I was about ten or eleven I guess my parents decided that dogs would be a good way to teach reproduction so then they went out and got a female [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] and then we started having puppies and she had she had four or five litters she always had to look we always kept them in the house when they had the when she when the babies were little [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] and the rest of the time they were outside they had we had a big uh kind of a play house and part of that was their dog house it was kind of cordoned off [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] so they had a place to stay out there and then they had the yard and they had a little run that uh they kept them in when we were trying to do stuff in the back yard and didn't want them out but we had the same kind of situation at one point in time we had the mother the one of her last her next to last litter we kept we had one one we never could get rid of he was a real dumb dog nobody wanted him the puppy was just one of these dogs just as dumb as a stick and we have him and then our female she had another litter we didn't think she was we thought she was too old to get pregnant again turned out she wasn't and uh she had her litter I guess her last litter had like four and two of them survived and then she didn't make it [speaker002:] oh [speaker001:] two days after the they were born she had a she died she had some kind of an infection from it all she was just too old we had to feed the puppies we had to get up night and day with those just like with a baby [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] and bottle feed them and we just [speaker002:] we had a Schnauzer that got milk fever right after the babies were born and we had to feed all their babies feed all the babies there were five and there were four of them that survived [speaker001:] oh um [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] weren't they messy too well did she did the mother survive [speaker002:] yeah she did survive [speaker001:] so you could still feed it but she kept them clean [speaker002:] no [speaker001:] oh she didn't she didn't do something [speaker002:] no she didn't even she did not even take the sack this is the laziest dog that ever lived [speaker001:] um [speaker002:] when she had these puppies she crawled up onto my mother's stomach in the middle of the bed had the puppies and woke up my mother [speaker001:] oh no [speaker002:] to cut the sacks off she didn't even lick the sacks off laziest dog on earth she never she never nursed them she never cleaned them she never did anything to them they were like she they didn't exist [speaker001:] yuck oh goodness what's a mess that was like oh boy they are so messy when they're little too [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] we were giving them a bath about every other day boy we were giving them a bath at least once a day but they were so horrible [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] because they would roll and everything and oh [speaker002:] yeah they just poop and it's yeah they [speaker001:] yeah and crawl through it [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] oh I guess I had fish for a while when I was a kid too I had a fish tank and I had a few until [speaker002:] like a nice aquarium [speaker001:] well it wasn't really an aquarium it was an old you know how you used to have these um this was a box and it was originally it was made like an aquarium I guess except it was smaller but it was its original use was to put in the refrigerator on the shelf had a little spigot at one end [speaker002:] oh yeah [speaker001:] and you could get water out of it you know keep cold water [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] we outgrew the need for that and so I used it for an aquarium [speaker002:] that's great [speaker001:] it worked except the fish could swim it wasn't tall enough I kept the if I didn't keep the lid on it the fish would uh swim out and flop on the floor sometimes flip out of the thing but [speaker002:] the cat was always happy [speaker001:] yeah those have been I mean and our dogs now our dogs with our kids I have two little kids three and a half and one and a half [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] so we built the dog run down the length of our uh back yard because the kids were getting I mean we couldn't even let our older son until he was about two I guess he was two when we built the dog run we couldn't let him go out in the back yard because it was we have a deck with a rail and he could go on that but the dogs were so big and he was so little you know they just even walking by him they'd knock him down and the whole back yard had poop in it all the time [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] it was a mess for the little one so [speaker002:] yeah yeah [speaker001:] now we have a back yard and a dog run [speaker002:] uh we've uh we'll probably get real small Cairn terrier [speaker001:] oh that'll be nice [speaker002:] and it'll probably be an indoor outdoor dog [speaker001:] yeah back and forth uh [speaker002:] but see my my oldest is five and a half and so she can take part in some of the uh responsibilities a three and a half year old really can't quite take part of many of the responsibilities maybe feeding them [speaker001:] three and a half yeah or probably he or she is old enough to where they won't tease it too you know poke on it too much [speaker002:] oh she's got respect for animals thank goodness [speaker001:] yeah because that's hard ours our kids have gotten over it with the dogs behind it they have the run it's kind of like a wire run [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] so they go the first thing they do is they go out there and play with them but boy the little one still he just wants to poke my older one our older son's pretty good about it he'll pet the dog you know [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] and and he's three and a half like you're saying and he he's pretty good with them and with other people's dogs and cats that he runs into but boy the little one still just wants to poke and and see if the dog will back off you know and [speaker002:] I think that's eighteen months [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] I mean I think that's just kids trying to figure out you know what's going to happen and it will happen again and again and again [speaker001:] yeah I think it is too it's gonna get better yeah yeah I think if we didn't have pets if we didn't already have our dog and cat now we wouldn't get them because the kids are so little [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] I think when they're really little like the eighteen month old it's not fair to the animal because the kids are so miserable to them if they're out very much [speaker002:] yeah yeah it has to be a real mellow kind of animal that can [speaker001:] yeah that's [speaker002:] uh survive it and child [speaker001:] yeah and not get mad at the kid that's the other thing too that I I always felt Pepper the Siberian husky is really sweet she can I think the kids could walk up and they could literally probably stand on her back and she wouldn't even she'd kind of look at them like what are you doing now she's real good natured about it [speaker002:] well that's what you I mean that's what you need in a pet if your going to have small children too [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] but we uh [speaker001:] well I think that's about all my pet stories right now so [speaker002:] oh wonderful I'm just flat out of pet stories I don't even have a pet anymore [speaker001:] okay well it's been nice talking to you [speaker002:] well thanks thanks for calling bye-bye [speaker001:] okay bye-bye

[speaker002:] Cindy have you seen Dances With Wolves [speaker001:] no I haven't have you [speaker002:] oh that is a wonderful movie [speaker001:] uh-huh it's not the length isn't too long [speaker002:] no oh goodness no you don't even you don't even realize it you know [speaker001:] uh-huh oh well really I've heard different opinions about it uh uh-huh one that you know yeah it was too long and they thought that you know at certain points that it was going to end and it didn't and it kept going on and uh-huh [speaker002:] really oh I thought it was great yeah [speaker001:] really now I've seen you know some different clips of it um and it it looks good it's just I haven't had the time to go to the movies lately [speaker002:] well yeah and I heard a story about there's a there's a certain scene in the movie where there's um where they're where they're on a buffalo hunt and they have a particular child actor uh who's who's being supposedly run down by a buffalo [speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh [speaker002:] and when they were trying to film that the buffalo that they used for that scene was Neil Young's buffalo I can't remember what they said his name was but he has a fetish for Oreo cookies [speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh oh [speaker002:] and they got him to run like he was running down the kid by luring him with Oreo cookies [speaker001:] hey that'd work for me let me tell you [speaker002:] I thought that was really funny [speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh now I've seen another clip of um the guy that plays in Murphy Brown I don't know his name but he's he played the uh the the character in it that was very like gross I mean very dirty and oh I saw the one clip of him and ugh it when he was first I guess he was taking Kevin Costner to [speaker002:] oh yeah [speaker001:] like the site where he was going to be or whatever [speaker002:] oh yeah [speaker001:] that was rather um gross [speaker002:] yeah the wagon the wagon driver [speaker001:] yeah yeah but other than that I've heard the the you know the um the scenery in it is absolutely beautiful [speaker002:] yeah and uh the costuming [speaker001:] uh-huh really [speaker002:] yeah was the only thing about the costuming my husband remarked that it didn't that that um the Indians all appeared to be wearing new things [speaker001:] oh really [speaker002:] and they should have taken them out and rolled them in the dirt a little more probably you know age to age the material so they they did very authentic reproductions of the [speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh uh-huh the styles uh-huh [speaker002:] of the actual stuff but they didn't they didn't age it [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] quite enough it seemed but it was a very good movie [speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh uh-huh well I guess I will have to see it then [speaker002:] what have you seen lately [speaker001:] um actually have been to the movies um I think the last movie I saw was Misery [speaker002:] oh I didn't see that [speaker001:] oh very suspenseful [speaker002:] I don't I don't like Stephen King [speaker001:] I really don't either but I went with someone and once I was there I couldn't believe I mean it's an excellent movie yeah [speaker002:] really I wasn't sure because uh just generally you know that kind of scary stuff I I just don't want to have anything to do with it [speaker001:] it's not necessarily it it's not necessarily scary as it is suspenseful I mean it's not [speaker002:] yeah I think I heard somebody talking about that she cuts his foot off or something you know [speaker001:] no in in the book apparently she cuts his feet off but in the movie she she disables him but not by cutting his feet um she she breaks both of his ankles [speaker002:] hum ugh [speaker001:] and that I couldn't watch and but you know you could tell when it was coming [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] so yeah um that was so that he couldn't leave her cause she [speaker002:] it still just seems a little twisted to me I'm not sure I would have enjoyed that at all [speaker001:] yeah yeah I mean uh yeah well as far as that goes yeah I mean you wouldn't like to see anybody anything happen to anybody but it was just how she got so caught up her emotions [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] and you know and and she feel madly in love with this writer and it was just [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] but she was a killer and the the character was you know prior to that had had been someone that had killed other people but no one knew that [speaker002:] yeah oh yeah [speaker001:] so but so yeah we just haven't had the time to go to the movies lately [speaker002:] I know we don't see movies at the movies a lot the last we did go see Dances With Wolves and we went to see Not Without My Daughter but mostly we wait until they come out on video tape and then we rent them [speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh oh right right now I want to see Sleeping With The Enemy [speaker002:] oh yeah that looks really good too [speaker001:] um that yeah it looks good and there were a couple others that I just haven't had the time now see I [speaker002:] and Silence of the Lambs I'm I'm intrigued by it but I'm not sure I want to go see it yet [speaker001:] yeah I don't think I want to see that either I know I don't I don't think I could [speaker002:] I think well now we had some friends that went to see it and they said it was okay so it might not be as I think they may be playing up um some aspects of the movie that aren't the main aspects [speaker001:] really really uh-huh know [speaker002:] now we went to see the Jagged Edge and that yeah so it's it seems like you know that kind of the thriller suspense and not not real um [speaker001:] oh well I liked that movie yeah uh-huh [speaker002:] strange in other ways [speaker001:] uh-huh hum well I guess that's about it [speaker002:] okay [speaker001:] it was nice okay it was nice talking to you bye-bye [speaker002:] maybe we'll talk to you again alright bye-bye

[speaker001:] um I guess my feelings are that uh we almost have a universal health care system uh to a great degree except that now I read where we've left out about thirty four million people [speaker002:] oh [speaker001:] and um I don't know exactly how we're gonna cover many of these people because I'm sure that some of them uh don't uh don't have the wherewithal to do it themselves so uh I I have a feeling since I have just about as good a health care coverage that anybody can get that this uh then becomes an obligation of the government because it's gonna become an obligation of either state local or federal government anyway [speaker002:] yeah because when people can't pay they end up going to clinics or you know to public hospitals and that kind of thing and you know [speaker001:] well it seems to me that that I'm paying anyway because when I go or my insurance carrier anyway when I pay something the bills seem inordinately high [speaker002:] oh definitely [speaker001:] and the reason that they're inordinately high is because that has to cover the costs for the indigent people who apparently don't have the money or the wherewithal to do that [speaker002:] right yeah yeah [speaker001:] would seem to spread it out a little better if the employers who uh employ these people and pay them uh you know subminimum wages or whatever were asked to share to share their fair burden of this too just as my employer is and myself I guess [speaker002:] yeah yeah yeah yeah that sounds like a good idea my only concern is what happens when you turn things over to the government I don't know do we wind up with more red tape and more problems so yeah yeah [speaker001:] well well who who else is gonna do this then I mean it's worked successfully in Europe I've heard all these stories about I travel extensively [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] and spend uh maybe half a year in Europe every year and I find that the health care programs there [speaker002:] oh [speaker001:] uh are administered with uh at least people I talk to with uh a great deal of integrity and uh people don't seem to be reluctant to use them to any degree as a matter of fact if I'm injured or [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] have an emergency when I'm say in Germany or France uh that I'm automatically taken care of I mean I don't even have to pay [speaker002:] wow yeah well I think part of the the tremendous benefit of that is that there's so many people who wait now because they don't have the money until you know they have no preventative measures because people um you know just go on and on and on I mean so many people don't even get prenatal care or and it just extends with if if it what what would be a minor problem to deal with if they had a help available early on becomes just this horrendous you know burden on the taxpayers they're saying now that one out of every ten child born in in public hospitals is addicted to crack well you know [speaker001:] well I uh uh I I I know it I have a solution you see uh my my solution even though I'm rapidly approaching the uh the age when I'll qualify for Medicare and Medicaid I I my mother and father both uh uh well my father's not living but my mother is [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] and they are um of of an advanced years and when I see the money that's poured down the down the drain on Medicare and Medicaid I mean the absolute uncontrollable situation that we find ourselves in and the extraordinary amounts [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] I know that because those people vote I mean they're the ones who get out and vote that's what's robbing a poor mother of the prenatal prenatal care the young people aren't getting the proper care that they need and nutrition I think [speaker002:] yeah yeah [speaker001:] and we're spending on these useless many times useless and inordinately complex unnecessary tests in hospitals for older people [speaker002:] oh it's just unbelievable how much you go through when I just had a problem with my neck and they ended up doing a seven hundred dollar CAT scan and I mean a chiropractor got it in one time it was just strange [speaker001:] that's right I mean it does seem like we're the the the now I noticed just the other day in the paper that that Medicare will be based payments will be based not uh just on cost but on cost effectiveness so I guess [speaker002:] oh well that should help [speaker001:] well I don't know uh we'll see how that goes I think that was just a regulation that was up for comment but we'll see what happens [speaker002:] yeah oh I see oh gosh [speaker001:] well listen uh I think I've I've exhausted my uh self on at least I've blown off steam of the way I feel about it [speaker002:] okay well okay thank you bye-bye [speaker001:] okay see you next time bye

[speaker001:] home because I'm leaving from work [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] okay well uh I don't know if I mentioned to you last time we talked but uh I just recently retired from the Army active duty twenty years and of course when you're active duty military you are required to not only to maintain a certain level of uh weight and physical fitness [speaker002:] um [speaker001:] but you're required to take a what we call a P T test physical uh physical training test uh twice a year [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] so we were constantly expected to exercise and be in shape and then we had specific standards we had to meet based on our age group [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] and if you didn't pass the test then they put you on what they called remedial P T and every morning you have to go to the company and jog in formation in which really did not prepare you for the next physical fitness test but was more a form of punishment [speaker002:] right right well so now that you're out of that what what sort of regime do you keep up with [speaker001:] what do I do now well as the result of that I really got to enjoy uh long uh distance running [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] and so I I trained quite regularly and I I raced quite often I tried to do like a ten kilometer foot race uh once a month or so [speaker002:] oh wow [speaker001:] now that I am out I pretty much kept with it until I got a job in Virginia and I live in Maryland [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] and so by the time I I get up early and drive and hour to an hour and a half here which is about fifty miles work all day fifty miles back on the Capitol Beltway and of course it's dark by the time I get home and [speaker002:] yeah yeah [speaker001:] so I have to admit that I I have fallen off uh slightly or maybe even considerably or maybe even completely and uh so I am not doing much now which concerns me because I just had my forty ninth birthday [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] so I want to keep at it because I know that if you don't uh there's there's lots of problems that you can have [speaker002:] definitely [speaker001:] yeah and so uh I want to get back at it as soon as spring breaks and uh but what we have done is uh decreased considerably the amount of fat that we consume in our diet [speaker002:] right uh-huh [speaker001:] and uh how about yourself [speaker002:] well I I generally play tennis two or three times a week [speaker001:] um uh-huh [speaker002:] and that's that's by enlarge about the only form of exercise I get but when I go out and play I generally play for two or three hours at a time [speaker001:] uh-huh um so you have a good sustained work out [speaker002:] so yeah so that that's that's quite strenuous for that long of a period [speaker001:] yeah oh yeah yeah that's that is a long time to have at it but that's of course uh uh there's a lot of sudden fast changes in direction and I don't know does that cause you any injuries or anything [speaker002:] um not not generally I I uh the few times I try and play basketball it seems like I always always sprain an ankle or twist a finger or something [speaker001:] no uh-huh right either an elbow in the eye [speaker002:] uh but tennis is not quite as extreme and I don't seem to have any uh injuries like that [speaker001:] right uh-huh the nice thing I liked about foot racing was that uh for me it was pretty much non competitive uh I didn't have to worry so much about being a part of a team or anything and so I could just compete against myself or the clock or the next guy ahead of me [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] and uh that fulfilled my urge to compete while at the same time keeping me fit [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] but I did uh I had the privilege of going to what the Army calls our master fitness trainer course which was uh a month long course at Fort Ben Harrison Indiana and I learned a lot from that about uh the difference between aerobic and anaerobic exercise [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] that sort of thing and so at least from that I I realize the importance of it [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] and uh [speaker002:] have you noticed any changes since you've started reducing the fat content of your diet [speaker001:] uh not so much that but I have noticed a difference because I am not exercising as much anymore in the uh in my heart rate which slowly creeps up as you get less and less fit [speaker002:] uh-huh right [speaker001:] and uh I haven't weighed myself in a good while but uh uh I just had a recently had a physical and they said that my uh triglycerides and the cholesterol and all that were in in pretty good shape and my wife uh was keeping real close track of it because she uh wanted to see what effect it would have on her and it she showed a significant improvement [speaker002:] huh [speaker001:] through just simple things like you're going for low fat lunch meats for uh when we bring our lunches to work and uh [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] uh matter of fact I've very seldom uh use uh sugar or salt either uh it takes a little getting use to [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] but uh uh skim milk is what we drink now and that took a little getting use to [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] but uh we have well at least she has noticed a significant change in her in her cholesterol and uh and triglycerides which is which is good [speaker002:] yeah that's encouraging [speaker001:] yeah and uh so she's slowly working herself into a uh a moderate fitness program

[speaker001:] have you any wisdom to offer someone picking a college [speaker002:] oh well I think I think the biggest thing that's important is to is to learn enough about the student to match the student well to the to the school and one thing I learned I went undergraduate to Harvard and then came out to Berkeley and it's pretty clear that there are some people who thrive at Berkeley uh and there are some people who who just die here because of the the amount of support that's given and the amount of uh bureaucracy you have to deal with and other things like that [speaker001:] are are you saying that that there's more bureaucracy et cetera at out in California at that particular school [speaker002:] uh in a large public school I think in general [speaker001:] ah [speaker002:] and uh this is a school with some thirty thousand students and it is set up in such a fashion that students register for classes months in advance and if they don't get them they may not get a chance to take them that year um average graduation has crept up closer and closer to five years largely because of the number of students who can't get all of the courses to fulfill their major on time uh on the hand this is [speaker001:] that seems so wasteful [speaker002:] it is and and it's happening in in a lot of public schools uh because of of budget cuts but on the other hand what it does provide is is for the um for students who who need a chance to be forced to fend for themselves uh who have perhaps been too isolated this is a a case where they're they're forced to do that and and my wife went here as an undergraduate she had been sort of protected right through high school and and had to learn to to make it on her own and she graduated from the place in four years by learning to be smart and picking courses that uh at the right times and right priorities and I can see that as advantageous but there are a lot of people for whom this is just a waste of time [speaker001:] hum that it's interesting you're approaching it from the sort of administrating your education just you know trying to get the class and be there I was thinking in terms of um how would you advise a kid uh on how to pick his future career I I have a son whose a freshman in high school [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] and he hasn't got a clue you know what he wants to do you know he's good in math and science and he'll you know [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] uh his stepdad's an engineer his father's an accountant you know he he'll probably lean toward some kind of math or science kind of thing but he's not sure what I myself graduated with an undergraduate and a Master's in art [speaker002:] um-hum um-hum [speaker001:] and I did it because it's just something I love to do and I felt that I'm not I'm not a Picasso so I guess I'll teach and I kind of backed myself into a career that I never ended up really using I mean now that I'm raising my kids I'm substitute teaching because the hours are so good et cetera [speaker002:] um-hum um-hum [speaker001:] but I had never given that much thought to whether I actually liked to teach you know it just seemed that well that's a practical thing you can do with art so you might as well do it [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] and I guess my advice to uh kids approaching college would first of all do something practical because the art for me um didn't work out very practically I got out of school when the Vietnam draft evasion was going on and everybody wanted to be a teacher there were no jobs and I ended up taking a secretarial school summer class for graduate college graduates which it struck me as so sad [speaker002:] just just to be able to find a job that you would qualify for [speaker001:] so sad you know there's a whole bunch of college graduates who are learning how to type just to be able to to make some money [speaker002:] yeah well [speaker001:] and um [speaker002:] I I think one of the reasons that I don't see that as as much of a problem see I would encourage people to go into college not knowing what they want to do because so many of the high schools have done such a bad job at introducing different areas [speaker001:] hum [speaker002:] that it may be that what you want to do and it may be a very practical thing to go into doesn't seem attractive because what you've learned of it so far is is not interesting a lot of people are turned off from math because of high school math and going to a school that offers a lot of choice and taking your first year or two to explore what the choices are still gives you plenty of time and [speaker001:] to pick so you you're suggesting some liberal arts program where you take a smattering of everything [speaker002:] and then eventually focus on a single major I certainly wouldn't say to go to a liberal arts school that doesn't have a strong science program [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] uh and I'd even encourage a liberal arts school with an engineering program but I tend to look I don't like what I see from the students who are graduating here with engineering degrees where seventy five or eighty percent of their time is spent in a prearranged technical curriculum [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] and they are moving here towards a program where they have a Bachelor of Arts and a Master of Science combined where you get a general education with guaranteed admission into an engineering degree for a Master's degree [speaker001:] oh that [speaker002:] and that seems like a good compromise it's

[speaker001:] Go ahead. [speaker002:] Um, I haven't given this a, a lot of thought. I'm, uh, that, that's a whole, pleased with the pr-, practice that is they, I, uh, I don't, you would favor invasions of privacy on the other hand that's arguable but that, that, uh, people who's jobs are critical to public safety should have to meet special standards. Uh, I haven't given this matter enough thought. [speaker001:] Do you work for T I? [speaker002:] No, uh, [speaker001:] Oh. [speaker002:] I'm in the Washington area. I work for N I S T. [speaker001:] Oh, okay. Oh, all right. Well, see we have the testing already here. We've had it for, oh, about five years. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] It used to just be for new employees. And now [speaker002:] And now, [speaker001:] it's for all employees. They, uh, randomly select employee numbers and, uh, the day that they select you is when you have to go and, and be tested. [speaker002:] Okay, and how do people feel about it? [speaker001:] So, we're familiar with it. Oh, we have a lot of, um, people upset about it at the beginning. Some not all. But what was happening at T I is that they found certain parts of the company there was a lot of drug abuse. Um, [breathing] mainly the areas whe-, where they were doing a lot of, um, manufacturing type things and what they ended up doing is, uh, kind of like doing a little bit of an undercover agent to watch what was happening, and we had people using on the premises and actually selling and dealing, you know, on the premises. [speaker002:] Well, okay, that's, that's a very different issue. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Well, yeah, it was, you know, combination of, of, uh, both activities and, uh, and using too so they developed this, uh, drug policy so that, uh, to eliminate, there's some parts of the company that we do, uh, government contracts, and I think some of those require the drug testing, but now T I thought well, we'll just do it for all employees that, um, not just because of safety issues but because we want a totally drug free safe environment for all people to work in and that we shouldn't have, um, people on drugs within our, you know, offices and such. [speaker002:] And, [speaker001:] I haven't personally ever been tested, but I don't have a problem with it. [speaker002:] Um, does the testing cover alcohol as well as illegal drugs? [speaker001:] No, but one thing that to, to me was, um, going on, stretching it a little too far was that they also check, um, if you are taking somebody else's prescription drug. You know, it happens a lot of times like some member of the family gets the flu or whatever and, {D you know [speaker002:] Well, [speaker001:] then } they give it to everybody else in the family and don't always go back to the, you know, doctor and get another prescription. Well, according to what they do at T I, if you take a prescription drug it has to be in your name. It, you know, it can't be in your spouse's name so they will look, I mean, the testing will look for, I guess, any kind of drugs, and you have to tell them what they are taking a prescription for. [speaker002:] So they ask you to declare beforehand what prescription drugs you are taking? [speaker001:] Right. Yes, yes. When you get tested you are supposed to tell them, you know, everything that, that might be there. And then if they ever, um, question you or something you may have to show proof that you do have a prescription in your name. [speaker002:] Okay. Well, it, I mean, it's, I guess that, in fact, they don't test for, for, they don't routinely test for very many prescription drugs but that I, but they don't say in advance, uh, so, [speaker001:] Well, what they wo-, be testing for are the ones that would have like, you know, barbiturates or codeine things like that in them. [speaker002:] The ones that would kind of constitute controlled substances or something anyway. [speaker001:] Right, right. I guess that's what i-, they wouldn't be looking for penicillin and an-, antibiotics and stuff. They would be looking for the, yeah, controlled things, barbiturates amphetamines. [speaker002:] So what they are asking you to tell them is all the prescription drugs you are taking which are controlled substances. [speaker001:] Right, right. You pretty much, you know, put down what you remember even if it was just Contact or something like that. But afterwards, uh, maybe if you had a controlled substance [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Is Contact a, [speaker001:] Well, [LAUGHTER], [speaker002:] Bo-, [speaker001:] you, you probably put down, you know, you had Drixoral or Contact if you would remember that you did it. [speaker002:] Okay. Is Contact a, [speaker001:] No. [speaker002:] substance? [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] I'm, [speaker002:] Okay. [speaker001:] just saying you probably pro-, put down on the sheet [speaker002:] Okay. [speaker001:] anything you have taken. But if they had a controlled substance, maybe they would ask you then to show that you had that prescription in your name. I know I had one contract employee through Manpower was not a T I person, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] but was a contract person, and they test them too even if you are not a real, uh, T I -er. If you are a contract employee here [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] they test you too. And he had taken some kind of, um, [lipsmack] oh, you know, uh, just, he had some kind of flu or something. He got a real bad migraine and he took his mother's,

[speaker001:] to uh trial by jury and whether it works or not is [speaker002:] hey I like the current system [speaker001:] yeah I expect it's um about as good as one can expect um I suppose you get an illogical verdict now and then but uh [speaker002:] yeah yeah I figure the answer to that is to educate the consumers or the uh [speaker001:] the the jurors you mean the people [speaker002:] right just [speaker001:] yeah I just got called to my first jury duty uh-huh I never been on a jury how about you [speaker002:] hey two weeks ago first time I was ever called [speaker001:] and were you did you did you show up and do it or whatever it was [speaker002:] oh yeah I showed up but uh the case settled before they could uh make us uh actually listen to anything so I have no idea what the case was about or uh you know I didn't get to do anything [speaker001:] my brother was on some real complex business case where they were um decide to asked to decide the exact amount to the penny of fraud in some credit card case you know [speaker002:] wait so the jury had to like go over ledgers and financial records and [speaker001:] well they went over it in the trial but they didn't give the stuff to the jury afterward it was really bizarre uh [speaker002:] wait a second don't don't they have to enter that in as evidence and can't the jury request any piece of it [speaker001:] yeah but they have to ask for it and then the the bailiff brings it and they can look at it then the bailiff takes it away again it's not like they can just spread it out in their jury room and then you know get out a bunch of calculators and pocket computers and add it all up it was [speaker002:] right the the jurors request an IBM three seventy [speaker001:] yeah right would you give me an IDMS IDMS system or something like that dear judge you know it was it was a very peculiar case I guess that one was didn't work very well um uh but [speaker002:] whoa that I'm not sure that's the jury's fault [speaker001:] no no I don't think so either um [speaker002:] but I don't know what else they could've done [speaker001:] yeah yeah um I guess I guess nothing else but uh [speaker002:] TI suggests just giving it to the judge but uh [speaker001:] well for sentencing I don't know does that make any sense I mean it depends on what I I don't know what the offense is I guess that's why we have juries is to take each case on a case by case basis and that's fine anyway um [speaker002:] no I mean the jury there's problems with it as far as finding jurors as far as weird verdicts as far as just the timing the timing you know it takes a lot of time but uh you know I like it because I think you don't have the abuse or it's a sort of a check if you have one guy doing something he can sort of go out of control and it's a long time before he gets reigned in [speaker001:] yeah or if it's an organizational problem you know where where you know the [speaker002:] and he can do a lot of damage [speaker001:] you know it's possible to imagine a corrupt judicial system where you know all the judges are are part of the system I guess that happened in Chicago once huh [speaker002:] yeah yeah or just even one guy just before you get a chance to uh you know to uh purge him he could do a lot of damage [speaker001:] yeah yeah I guess they do anyway I guess the only trouble with the jury system I see is it's really darned darned expensive and and you know time consuming and you know and and all these systems of where you can like ask a jury ask each juror what they think about something then kick them out and you know I guess they can manipulate it a little [speaker002:] you know maybe some of the uh like the hype needs to be cut out but you mention expense [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] I think you get what you pay for [speaker001:] yeah it's true no lie [speaker002:] you know if you want a cheap legal system you're you're gonna get that kind of Kmart service or uh well Kmart's not all that bad there's got to be some sort of cheap what's the epitome of cheap these days [speaker001:] beats me um yeah in in Massachusetts it's the judicial system their buildings are all falling down well I guess that gets them the sample good night sir [speaker002:] all right good luck [speaker001:] take it easy

[speaker001:] Tell me what you like to do. [speaker002:] Well, [LAUGHTER] I, I collect antique tools, uh, for one thing, I well, I'm sort of in an antique business, but it's a little [speaker001:] Oh. [speaker002:] sideline, part time thing. [speaker001:] Uh-huh, wonderful. [speaker002:] And, uh, I'm building a, a log house at a farm that I have in East Texas, which is [speaker001:] Oh. [speaker002:] a hundred miles from here. [speaker001:] Wonderful. [speaker002:] Yeah, it's really neat. And, uh, uh, course I've been working on it for five years, but, you know, [speaker001:] Oh, but how wonderful. Are you close to getting it done? [speaker002:] Yeah, yeah, it's getting real close to [speaker001:] Oh. [speaker002:] you know, of course there's still a lot of work to be done, and then when you get it completely, you know, the shell finished, uh, you still have a lot of stuff to do inside, but, uh, [speaker001:] Are you going to move your whole family over there then? [speaker002:] No, actually, uh, I'm not even sure, I may, I'll probably always have a place here in Richardson or Dallas [NOISE]. [speaker001:] Uh-huh, kind of your getaway place. [speaker002:] Yeah, escape. But it's beautiful, it's, you know, it's Eastern Hardwood, uh, forest, there are a lot of pine trees, but it's mostly oaks and. [speaker001:] Oh, how beautiful, and it's pretty flat there? [speaker002:] Well, it's kind of, hilly, but, it's, you know, low hills, it's not, uh, [speaker001:] See, I've only been to Texas once. I have two sisters in Texas now, um, one in Austin, one in Dallas, and the one in Dallas is the one that got me to doing this [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] and, uh, I thought Austin was beautiful [speaker002:] You, [speaker001:] I liked the hills [speaker002:] Yeah, in Aus-, [speaker001:] and the trees, [speaker002:] Yeah, it's really different because that's kind of the, you know, that's the chalk hills down there, [speaker001:] Oh, and you've always, [speaker002:] lime-, limestone hills, [speaker001:] lived in Texas, have you? [speaker002:] Yeah, except for time in service. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. Born and raised Texan, huh. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] Well, I had never been there, that's pretty neat. My sisters both seem to like it pretty well. My brother-in-law works for the University, um, in Dallas. [speaker002:] Wh-, [speaker001:] He's admissions director. [speaker002:] At, at which one? [speaker001:] Uh. University of Texas in Dallas. [speaker002:] Oh, okay [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] it's just north of me here. [speaker001:] Yeah, well that's, he's got a job there and this is his first year, so, it's been a real interesting thing for them [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] That's great. [speaker001:] But they seem to like it okay. I think they're too far away from me, but [speaker002:] Well, yeah, [speaker001:] maybe some day they can get closer, we'll see. [speaker002:] Pretty good trip. So what do you, what kind of hobbies are you in? [speaker001:] Well, I'm mother of four, so basically I'm just, [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] real busy with my kids right now in sports, and we have a little Halloween talent show tonight, and, [inhaling] I substitute at the schools part-time. [speaker002:] Oh, that's great. [speaker001:] Well, I am a travel agent at heart, and my hobby is just, I love traveling and, and being involved of that and finding out more, uh, but, it's real hard to work in the summers and holidays and weekends when you have four children and a husband, so [speaker002:] No, kidding. [speaker001:] I reluctantly gave that career up and am just substituting at the school, so I've been librarian all this week, which has been real interesting, and I'm enjoying it. I'm around my kids and, [speaker002:] That's pretty easy substituting isn't it? [speaker001:] Oh yeah, yeah, [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] it's great, it's great, and what else do I do, I do lots of cross stitching when I have time [speaker002:] Ooh. [speaker001:] and I enter things in our little state fair, and that's pretty fun. [speaker002:] That's great. [speaker001:] Well, but, actually my hobbies is mostly is my sports. Tennis, I play tennis. [speaker002:] Ooh, I love tennis too [speaker001:] Ooh, do you? [speaker002:] and I ski, ski, do you ski? [speaker001:] Yes, we snow ski. We snow ski at Mount Bachelor mostly [speaker002:] Uh, that's great. [speaker001:] in Oregon, have you ever been there? [speaker002:] No, uh, [speaker001:] Wonderful place. [speaker002:] I've skied in Colorado and [speaker001:] Ooh. [speaker002:] we usually go to New Mexico because it's a little cheaper, you know. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. Where in Colorado? [speaker002:] I've been to Telluride which is on the west side [speaker001:] Yes, yes. [speaker002:] and, uh, Copper, Copper is kind of my favorite up there. [speaker001:] Really. [speaker002:] Breckenridge [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] and Keystone. I guess those are the only places I've skied up there. [speaker001:] I would love, I can hardly wait to get [speaker002:] Me, too. [speaker001:] up there. [speaker002:] You guys, are you guys getting snow? [speaker001:] We, it is snowing right now. We're to get one to three inches tonight. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] Oh, gee, [speaker001:] . [speaker002:] I heard Aspen got three feet. [speaker001:] Oh, yeah, well we're, we are on the dry side of the mountains. Seattle is only about two and a half hours, so of course I'm a real Seahawks fan [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] and, um, going over that pass is just a real nightmare. [speaker002:] I can imagine, my lord. [speaker001:] And, um, so, and we're on the colder side, they're on the rainy side, we're on the snowy side and, um, we, we ski. My, my children all ski [speaker002:] Oh, super. [speaker001:] and we've, we have been to Whistler in Canada, which is just a marvelous place, Whistler and Black Home [spelled phonetically] is in Canada, and then we've gone to Sun Valley several times, that's a, just a great place. But no Colora-, not in Colorado since I was in college, since I went to school, [speaker002:] What about Utah? [speaker001:] Haven't been there, I keep hearing these marvelous things [speaker002:] Yeah, haven't either. [speaker001:] about Deer Valley and, um, [speaks to child] don't, Adam, [resumes talking to B] um [speaker002:] Always want to go to Canada [speaker001:] City, [speaker002:] Canada to Banff or somewhere like that [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Ooh, yes. And your kids all ski? [speaker002:] Uh, not all of them [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] My, my kids are all grown. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] But my youngest son is a skier. [speaker001:] Really, that's great. Well, my boys are at the point where they scare their mommy to death. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] When they're skiing they're fearless, and they go off,

[speaker001:] okay what do you think about uh this health insurance business [speaker002:] well I watched something on TV a couple of months ago by uh General ex uh Surgeon General Koop [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] and he talked about Canada's system and it appears to work fine for the normal colds and things like that but the expensive stuff heart uh operations and things they have a managed scarcity and they said that in Canada there were as many heart uh trauma centers as there is in San Francisco so in one city of in America there's as many uh hospitals that are equipped to do hospital uh heart operations as in the entire area of Canada and that's kind of spooky [speaker001:] well I uh I understand what you're saying and there's probably some truth to that I think that uh generally I don't welcome added government responsibilities however when a anybody can't police their own profession it eventually leads to that and I think the costs and the uh the way the medical profession has every year I uh being in my own business uh in the last six years every year there's been at least minimum twenty five percent increase in health insurance costs and I think eventually the number of people that can afford health insurance as as it is now getting squeezed and squeezed tighter uh [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] I think they're asking for it I I think the medical profession is just just pushing until there's no option but the government take it over and uh [speaker002:] do you think that it's just the medical guys what about you know you know how expensive new equipment and technology is that's where I think most of the cost is coming [speaker001:] well I I think a lot of it is uh I I don't disagree totally with that but uh my wife this last summer uh when we were on vacation tore up her knee and uh uh it it was ligaments ligaments uh in her knee as it turned out uh she came back that uh we were out at Cape Hatteras when this happened and uh she got home [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] and the leading orthopedic man who has handled football people for years and is as good as they come I mean he knows knee problems okay I mean if anyone does this guy knows it [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] well she goes in and he says well I think this is what it is but uh you better go to the hospital and have one of these MRI things thousand dollars for this uh oh Magnetic uh Resonance uh Imaging type thing and my wife said well uh do I need that and he he says well uh you know it it'll help me diagnose this I mean uh you know I I suggest you go have this thing insurance won't pick this up unless you're in the hospital [speaker002:] oh great [speaker001:] now a thousand uh uh dollars for thirty five minutes I mean doctors routinely send people in for anything now for years they didn't have this and they solved these problems and you know I said to her well look you know if you feel you got to go go but I I think a thousand dollars these guys I don't know what it is but there's no doubt they get kickbacks to fill these machines up night and day [speaker002:] in [speaker001:] and even if they cost a hundred two hundred five hundred thousand dollars at uh roughly a thousand dollars every half hour uh that's ridiculous I I don't care what anyone says those you know the costs are not it's a picture it shouldn't cost more than thirty five bucks for something like that you know reasonableness but they aren't reasonable fifty a hundred dollars they don't have to pay them back in three months time you you know [speaker002:] you know yeah I'll have to agree with you there but there's another problem and that's the how litigious our society is if the doctor makes a mistake he can be sure that he's gonna to be hauled into court [speaker001:] well I think that should be that's that's a another problem but that's part of our legalese problem and that the government eventually will address too just you know because it's out of control I I agree with you you know uh I was on a jury or I I didn't make the jury but there was a deal where a doctor was gonna be sued for malpractice on the death of an infant [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] like it was three days after it was born and he was the one that delivered it and they got four attorneys one guy out of Houston he introduced himsnelf as snake so-and-so he says well anyone have trouble awarding five million dollars and I says yeah I got problems with that I mean you know five million bucks isn't going to bring this kid back you know I mean as sorrowful as it is uh you know if the doctor is wrong you know it he should be pulled from his license but five million dollars and away he goes because insurance pays for it you know it it it it doesn't make logical sense to me but uh [speaker002:] no it doesn't [speaker001:] uh that's

[speaker001:] anyway [speaker002:] yes [speaker001:] so I'm so like what did you eat the last time you went to a dinner party [speaker002:] well the last time I went to a dinner party was down at the lake and uh golly it was a dish uh from uh down in Panama [speaker001:] uh-huh wow [speaker002:] and uh I think the name of it was Paetha and uh it was a delicious meal [speaker001:] what was it what was the dish [speaker002:] well the dish was composed was composed of uh steak and chicken and shrimp all cut up you know [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] uh into uh bite size portions and it had rice in it and tomatoes and vegetables and uh [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] onions and green peppers and what you do is prepare this uh in a a large uh oh it looks like a large uh uh [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] garbage can uh uh lid you know only turned upside down [speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh uh-huh [speaker002:] and uh this particular particular this particular person that cooked this uh cooked it over a burner propane burner course down in Panama they cook it right out right over right over an open flame [speaker001:] um-hum um-hum [speaker002:] and [speaker001:] it's it's Paella is what it is because I've I've had that before [speaker002:] yeah Paella how'd you know oh oh you have I'll be darned [speaker001:] yeah I've friends who are Cuban who well they're Cuban and uh I was in Miami one time and they fixed that dish and they used squid in it it it had all kinds of meats and [speaker002:] yeah well it right and they omitted the squid and there's one other item too that they omitted I can't I can't recall what that was but uh [speaker001:] uh-huh um-hum [speaker002:] uh we don't no we don't like squid it's too rubbery [speaker001:] it's sort of like the a version it's sort of like a version of gumbo it's sort of like Latin American gumbo or something [speaker002:] yeah but all this was cooked together they did serve French bread buttered uh bread and uh and uh it was delicious [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] we had that in fact uh Saturday night of this last week [speaker001:] wow [speaker002:] down at Caney City [speaker001:] where's that [speaker002:] oh it's about sixty miles this side of Tyler and uh and uh oh about a hundred uh let's see about seventy five miles from Dallas in between Tyler and us [speaker001:] um-hum oh like near Canton or [speaker002:] yeah is Canton is north uh uh north of us [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] what's the name of that lake down there oh yes yeah it's on Cedar Creek [speaker001:] oh okay well I know where that is [speaker002:] yeah we have a lake house down there and jointly owned with another couple here in the neighborhood [speaker001:] um-hum um-hum [speaker002:] so we're always having parties and this particular time we had uh what we call our uh our our group here in uh in Richardson the uh what we're in we gather together and go out and eat at some restaurant or something of that nature [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] or go to some event [speaker001:] well I'm having friends over this weekend I'm from South Alabama originally [speaker002:] south huh [speaker001:] South Alabama way down there uh close to Mobile [speaker002:] what town Mobile uh-huh [speaker001:] yeah Foley uh and anyway so what what I one thing I like to do is I like to cook real Southern food and so my friends um you know whenever I cook they usually like for me to really like cook Southern food so this weekend we're I'm doing like fried chicken I'm going to fry chicken and have turnip greens [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] and like a blackeyed pea salad and uh uh corn bread so I mean [speaker002:] turnip greens with the greens too [speaker001:] yeah actually just the with the greens not much of the turnips I don't like the turnip parts [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] but so I mean it's kind of you know weird because you think all your yuppie friends wouldn't necessarily want to eat like that but they do [speaker002:] do you like highly seasoned uh highly season it [speaker001:] the turnip greens oh sometimes like with pepper sauce you mean [speaker002:] yeah yeah I like to eat those green peppers just uh uh whole you know with turnip greens [speaker001:] well I'm I yeah I I like seasoned food but I can it can get too much pretty quickly for me I I think but [speaker002:] uh-huh well did you go to Auburn down there just off the subject [speaker001:] yes [speaker002:] well good did you know a Spivey down there [speaker001:] I did a Spivey in Auburn [speaker002:] yeah that went to Auburn [speaker001:] no we had neighbors whose names were Spivey uh Aubrey Spivey [speaker002:] uh what no [speaker001:] they were neighbors of ours my parents live now live in Auburn my whole family my sister everyone lives in Auburn [speaker002:] no Auburn I have a niece and nephew that graduated from uh from Auburn and he played football for Auburn broke his leg in the uh in the bowl down there at El Paso [speaker001:] um-hum oh goodness [speaker002:] Sun Bowl [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] in their uh in in oh that was a number of years ago he's probably oh probably pretty close to forty now [speaker001:] um-hum well that's where I went to that's where I'm from [speaker002:] I'll be darned [speaker001:] but anyway [speaker002:] so uh you really uh like to entertain your friends uh and

[speaker001:] um I think uh I like to listen to a program called Focus on the Family with Doctor James Dodson [speaker002:] uh-huh okay [speaker001:] and from what I understand it's it's a new thing good about families these days um especially spending time with one another I know if if I were to have children I would have trouble [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] because I work and uh I have my dogs and I have a hard enough time spending time with them you know [speaker002:] yeah I I'm I'm pretty busy myself I'm in graduate school at State and I [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] I can't see even having time for a pet let alone children [speaker001:] yeah really [speaker002:] but um [speaker001:] there's a lot of single parents too that are trying [speaker002:] yeah I think day care seems to be uh [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] a real big issue [speaker001:] yeah and uh I'm not sure or I just wonder when we'll know what the effects of day care [speaker002:] yeah well actually there's been some studies that say it has some positive effects that the students the the kids get you know exposure to other kids their age at an earlier time [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] so they tend to be more cooperative with their peer group although they don't have real good uh role models [speaker001:] yeah I've heard that they they call them uh that they say that they're more um creative that they're really just more rebellious [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] from the day care [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] because uh the people don't have the time to give that one-on-one attention [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] and and I just wonder if maybe day uh the home schooling is going to come into more and more uh homes [speaker002:] I can I can see that happening [speaker001:] yeah because really if you have a good curriculum [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] do you really need to have that certification [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] of a teacher I taught I taught school for a year and it was like whoops you know it's not for me [speaker002:] no [speaker001:] because I I just don't have that discipline with children that uh you need for them to learn [speaker002:] right um-hum [speaker001:] and uh I one day I was I like found myself uh telling them to write their spelling words a hundred times each and I just heard this comedian say that you know something that that's how you know you're a bad teacher [speaker002:] um [speaker001:] and I was doing it just keep them occupied [speaker002:] yeah I think another problem with the families uh is is the role of television [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] um I don't know it seems they're using it as a babysitter instead of a learning tool that really that really annoys me because I think I don't know I think my parents probably did that to me a little bit [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] um [speaker001:] using it as a baby a babysitter [speaker002:] yeah it's just go watch TV you know leave us alone [speaker001:] yeah will numb you out [speaker002:] which [speaker001:] well I've I've heard some uh there's a book out now called The Saturday Morning Mind Control [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] and uh he raises some serious questions about why do they have these really a lot of money goes into the advertising for children's programs [speaker002:] oh yeah [speaker001:] and yet uh children can't buy uh what's the deal [speaker002:] yeah but they can they can whine and squeal and complain [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] I'm watching Ninja Turtles [speaker001:] I know it [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] and boy the price of toys these days is ridiculous [speaker002:] yeah I could be [speaker001:] and they all have to have the same one you know [speaker002:] I can see having kids and not letting them watch TV and making them toys out of wood [speaker001:] say oh yeah [speaker002:] here kid this is this is all you're getting [speaker001:] I wonder how long that last [speaker002:] well I I used to babysit for this family that didn't have a TV and their their kids turned out fine [speaker001:] they didn't have a TV at all [speaker002:] they they had no TV [speaker001:] were they Pentecostal [speaker002:] no I mean they had a nice stereo they listen to stereo they were into Michael Jackson [speaker001:] yeah they just yeah [speaker002:] they just didn't watch him on TV [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] which I thought was pretty neat [speaker001:] yeah it is it's very good I think TV has really had some bad effects on all of us [speaker002:] especially the the violence on it [speaker001:] I've yeah yeah and you can't control it you you know it's the cable channels sometimes you can but [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] boy the cable TV they'll just show anything [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] and that's coming right into your homes [speaker002:] yeah I think TV can be good if if the family watches it together on they're watching good shows [speaker001:] uh-huh yeah [speaker002:] PBS or whatever I mean even some regular network TV is okay if the parents there and you know helps the students or help the the kids understand that yeah this that happened in the TV show but probably doesn't happen in real life [speaker001:] yeah yeah and there's a lot greater instance of uh children committing murders too isn't there [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] killing their parents and so forth they don't they see these things happening with no consequences [speaker002:] huh [speaker001:] you know [speaker002:] yeah you see it on TV The guy gets up and lives afterwards [speaker001:] yeah yeah like Double O Seven he's supposed to do it [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] and it's okay [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] so I [speaker002:] you going to have kids in the future [speaker001:] huh [speaker002:] you going to have kids in the future [speaker001:] no huh-uh because I'm like forty three [speaker002:] okay [speaker001:] and so it's uh it's too late [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] you know I wonder sometimes wonder if I'll ever if I will regret it when I'm old but uh I just can't see myself as a parent [speaker002:] uh-huh yeah [speaker001:] you know it's [speaker002:] I'm still pretty young I'm twenty five but I don't know I don't see it for for at least a few years [speaker001:] really are you married [speaker002:] no I'm single right now and I'm you know sorting things out which way I'm going to go with my life before I [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] have kids you know career to to much into my career you know [speaker001:] yeah well I wish you the best [speaker002:] okay well it's good talking to you [speaker001:] it's good talking to you bye-bye [speaker002:] all right bye-bye

[speaker001:] this is a kind of ironic subject for me because this is the first year um I purchased I mean I I was actually able to uh get some credit cards because I'm twenty one and I got it through school [speaker002:] oh uh-huh [speaker001:] uh and I I've kind of you know you kind of make a purchase and you and you forget you know what you put on your credit card and you know within a month you know they send you your bill and uh I I'm about three thousand dollars in debt right now [speaker002:] oh dear it can add up in a hurry [speaker001:] yeah they do I mean it's amazing it's like a an an illness or a sickness or something [speaker002:] uh-huh well it's it's uh it's easy to use there's no doubt about them I've had I've had one for oh probably ten years now and if you can if you pay it off every month generally generally you're okay um our experience has been um we usually pay it off each month but around Christmas time [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] we sometimes have to slide a month or a month or so to [speaker001:] yeah Christmas time I can understand but what my after I got one I didn't just stop I got I've got about five [speaker002:] yeah get caught up oh uh-huh they'll send you one about every time you turn around [speaker001:] six six credit cards yeah and uh so I just charged a little on each and uh and you just get the um [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] the adding machine out and you add it up and it's it's amazing [speaker002:] well you see these people that cut there's up say it's time to [speaker001:] uh-huh we went to we went on vacation and uh and I charged a lot you know just well I charged um like clothes for the vacation and then on the vacation you know charged your hotel [speaker002:] uh-huh yeah right [speaker001:] and then you know when you got to eat you charge the rest I mean you know it's so convenient and [speaker002:] oh and there's uh [speaker001:] and you just don't I guess you know I'm just really stupid I just didn't realize [speaker002:] yeah well I like them for a couple of aspects one is you don't have to carry a lot of cash with you [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] and the other is you know you got that statement and you can make one payment you don't have to write out a bunch of checks or always be paying for things it's convenient from that standpoint so it's it's nice from that standpoint from that angle but it can get out of hand in the interest rate on them is is quite high generally there are some that are lower you know you can get some that are [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] oh probably around twelve thirteen percent but most are around sixteen to eighteen or higher [speaker001:] um-hum yeah I have a friend that um she's married and her and her husband uh she said you know they tried really hard to pay them off and it took them three years before they were able to uh pay off their credit cards [speaker002:] okay yeah although you know they keep increasing your limit too you know I had a card that uh [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] well I think it started out with like a fifteen hundred dollar limit and I've had it for several years and I think I'm now up to uh seven thousand five hundred on it [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] I mean I'm not course I don't always spend that much but that's what they'd let me spend if I wanted to [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] I guess they they get to trusting you a little bit and I want to hold that bait out I don't know if the card companies that you have usually around Christmas time they'll they'll send you a little group of checks [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] say instead of using your credit card if you want to just go ahead and write these checks and we'll charge it'll go right against your account they they try to induce you during the Christmas season to to wrack up a few more dollars [speaker001:] um-hum um-hum [speaker002:] so I think they're good but you've got to be careful [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] that'd be my overall summary [speaker001:] I think it was hard for me because I wasn't working at the time and I was just going to school [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] and it was like every weekend I would just it's it was like sickness to me and I just got and just [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] spend uh but [speaker002:] well I don't know everybody likes them at least for a couple of things they're they're handy they're nice on when you travel [speaker001:] just yeah [speaker002:] well what kind do you have [speaker001:] um I have a Discover [speaker002:] oh uh-huh [speaker001:] and a Visa [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] a Sears and I have like most of the department stores [speaker002:] yeah well the Discover one is supposed to pay you back a little bit [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] have you experienced that or not [speaker001:] I have um I have maxed that one [speaker002:] what have you well that's uh I think that one's sponsored by Sears if I [speaker001:] yeah it is and I got the Sears through the Discover before I had um and I didn't even know I went over my limit I mean that's I just didn't even add it up I don't know I'm just [speaker002:] oh yeah [speaker001:] I was just going crazy [speaker002:] well [speaker001:] and there's about fourteen hundred dollars on that card [speaker002:] uh-huh well it can it doesn't take long I I just ordered a video camera yesterday and that's why that always bothers me a little bit to give your credit card number over the telephone but I [speaker001:] um-hum I wouldn't do that I would not do that I've seen on TV and and there's too many scams [speaker002:] yeah and there there can be there's no doubt about it we've

[speaker001:] okay well hello Frances [speaker002:] hello Paul [speaker001:] um yeah I guess when I uh first I guess I have mixed feelings about this uh subject when I first heard about it um I thought it was kind of a neat way of uh screening uh uh screening for potential problems good way for companies to weed out people with drug problems but since then I've been hearing uh [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] well I read an article in the Wall Street Journal last year that talked about um the different results that they get from uh different labs and that uh many labs will give uh false positives especially some of the [speaker002:] yes uh-huh [speaker001:] the less expensive ones and that people have been denied employment on this basis [speaker002:] well the reliability seems to not be too great um I don't know I'm kind of like you I have mixed feelings but all in all I think I'm for it uh I really do um [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] because we lose so much time and what have you with the the drug problem and it's just so prevalent nowadays that uh I think it's only fair for the uh employees or the employers to uh have some kind of guidelines to go by [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] but like anything else this can be misused [speaker001:] yeah there's a I know some employers have had have been able to uh reduce some tremendous problems they've had with employee turnover health problems and accidents and theft and I understand that certain jobs like if you're driving a train or plane or something of course there'd be increased need for it [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] one thing that always kind of bugged me about it was uh there's they most of them don't test for actually the number one drug problem which of course is uh alcohol abuse [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] and of course that you know everybody talks about all the other drugs but uh I I understand alcohol is really still the number one health problem and the number one abused drug in in our country so it seems kind of too bad that that one's tolerated while other ones are are you know are the ones that they focus on [speaker002:] well it is in every situation that uh alcohol is more acceptable to people it seems than the other quote drugs but uh it can do more harm with the uh I don't know we just seem to have a rash of drunk driving and killings around here lately and uh [speaker001:] well see now in Texas uh didn't they only recently ban open containers in in vehicles a few years ago [speaker002:] yes yes but we aren't very uh we aren't very hard even on the you know when they're picked up for drunk driving time after time again [speaker001:] oh really [speaker002:] this is a real problem here that they get a little slap on their wrists and there was one man here that had forty two DWI's [speaker001:] oh man [speaker002:] and the only reason they finally came down on him he finally did kill someone [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] and an innocent bystander and when looking back he had forty two convictions and yet he was still walking loose so we've got problem here with the alcohol especially that uh [speaker001:] uh-huh right yeah yeah I expect possibly in Texas it's uh you know a an attorney knows they get in front of a jury and the jury will be thinking well I've done that before or he's just a good old boy you know [speaker002:] the good old yeah good old boy stuff you know well this is yeah this is natural this is tell me what do you expect [speaker001:] yeah right what else how else do you drive in your pickup down the highway [speaker002:] yeah and I I'm afraid you know it may come out with some of these other drugs too that uh I know I have some friends whose children of uh you know it's they use cocaine [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] and it's acceptable it's becoming acceptable to them that well you know they're not [speaker001:] um [speaker002:] they're not hurting anyone else and I thought where have I heard this before and I'm afraid that's what we may be [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] facing in the very near future [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] other than that I don't know because I don't drink and I don't do drugs and it's uh so neither is really acceptable to me [speaker001:] well same here yeah yeah [speaker002:] but uh then the work place it's just I don't know what is well we really infringing on other rights or their