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[speaker001:] okay I guess our topic is um advice about going to college do you have children of your own [speaker002:] uh-huh oh no I don't have any children but I'm still going to college uh-huh NC State [speaker001:] oh are you what school are you going to oh are you enjoying it [speaker002:] um well it's a lot of work [speaker001:] are you working on your um [speaker002:] my Bachelor's uh-huh [speaker001:] Bachelor's degree and what field of study are you in [speaker002:] um it's actually in computer science and I have a special interest in Voice IO [speaker001:] uh-huh oh well that's neat are you from North Carolina [speaker002:] no I'm actually from Amarillo Texas originally [speaker001:] oh are you really oh [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] well what took you to North Carolina [speaker002:] um the service [speaker001:] oh I see [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] well that was one of the things I was thinking about in school um when I went to Texas Tech out in Lubbock [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] and uh I had a friend my roommate went to Tech also but she was from New Mexico [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] and she had to pay out of state tuition and I think that would have uh played a real big part in my decision [speaker002:] ooh it would have played a major part in mine [speaker001:] yeah because um she was paying of course back then it was so much cheaper than it is now it was like four dollars a semester hour [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] and so I was going to school for you know just a few hundred dollars a semester and she was paying forty dollars an hour so she's paying ten times as much because she was out of state [speaker002:] golly yeah luckily I've paid in state tuition the whole time [speaker001:] oh that's good yeah so I think that would be one thing I would definitely consider try to find a school within the state that um I liked well enough to attend [speaker002:] um-hum um uh-huh the second thing is some colleges only offer the uh Liberal Arts [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] and uh whereas like State they offer engineering courses [speaker001:] right yeah [speaker002:] so depending on what your major is or medical you might want to atteck somewhere um attend somewhere like Tech [speaker001:] yeah right [speaker002:] and um aside from the uh well some schools may even give you financial aid where another one won't [speaker001:] yeah that's true that was something else I had was I had government aid of course but uh it was wonderful because I got one of those grants that you don't have to repay [speaker002:] oh really [speaker001:] and yeah it was so nice it paid most of my tuition and um a lot of the book costs and that kind of thing so yeah I really [speaker002:] hm wow that's great was it a Pell grant [speaker001:] I'm sorry what did you say [speaker002:] what kind of grant was it [speaker001:] well it was called a BEOG a Basic Equal Opportunity Grant and it was from the government and it was based at first it was based on my parents' income my parents had five children and really didn't make enough money to [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] send any of us to school and so uh because based on the number of children and the amount of money uh [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] my father brought in I got a small grant but then after that I was on my own working and you know trying to go to school on my own [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] so then I got a real big grant because the amount of money I was making really didn't compare [speaker002:] wow uh-huh [speaker001:] so it was kind of nice I don't know if those are still available or not but [speaker002:] hm uh I'm not quite there's there's a lot of different organizations who uh who do give grants but uh I'm not exactly sure which ones they are and how how much that they you know they generally run [speaker001:] yeah yeah well this was great it was just based on you know how much your tuition costs and everything and generally it paid everything so I went to school about three years of my four for almost nothing so that was [speaker002:] um-hum golly that's great [speaker001:] yeah it was really nice [speaker002:] oh another thing I've got a I've got a degree from another college and uh something that might play a part is the size of the college [speaker001:] uh-huh right [speaker002:] uh lots the smaller schools can give you a lot uh a lot more specialized instruction and attention than the larger schools in the larger schools you get caught up in the bureaucracy and [speaker001:] um-hum yeah um-hum [speaker002:] and they just give you a teacher's assistants you know instead of a scholar you get a TA [speaker001:] um-hum that's right [speaker002:] and uh you don't get near the uh quality of education and as well the uh smaller schools often times don't cost as much [speaker001:] hm I didn't know that [speaker002:] oh yeah [speaker001:] well I guess the only comparison I had ever heard was between um a Christian college because I thought about attending Abilene Christian instead of Texas Tech [speaker002:] um-hum um-hum [speaker001:] and of course the price was just astronomical compared to Tech um the Christian college was so much more expensive [speaker002:] hm [speaker001:] but I guess some of the other colleges smaller colleges might might be a lot different [speaker002:] um oh I at State I think it's just a waste of somebody's money to go there [speaker001:] really [speaker002:] it's really a shame because of you know the instruction um I'd rather go to any other college you know in the state and I would definitely get my money's worth uh much better than State [speaker001:] yeah um-hum yeah huh [speaker002:] it's kind of unfortunate because they've they've just grown so big that they just don't care about the students anymore [speaker001:] yeah yeah you're just a number [speaker002:] yeah they're they're bent on uh seeing how much land how much more land they can get and how much uh how much of the campus they can build up [speaker001:] um right [speaker002:] and uh yeah it's really a bad situation here [speaker001:] yeah oh that's a shame well I I felt a little cheated at Tech also once I got into my I um major ed in

[speaker001:] Okay, do you want to start? [speaker002:] Okay, uh, I haven't, I don't know that much about the possi-, what the possible choices could be about reorganizing the trial by jury, but, uh, I think it works better than many other systems, like having a judge decide. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] I can't think of many alternatives that could be more fair than having twelve people decide, although it's difficult because they all have to be new-, unanimous. [speaker001:] Now that, do you, do you agree, that they should all be unanimous? [speaker002:] [Lipsmack] [breathing]. I don't, [speaker001:] Or even, even in, uh, like they said, you know, lesser, you know, trials, you know, lesser convictions, do you think that they should be all unanimous still? [speaker002:] I don't know, I don't know if I feel, I don't feel real strongly about that. If the, uh, the thing is, though, I, I didn't think even if it was a lower conviction, I didn't think that you could, uh, I didn't think that you really had to have a, a jury [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] Unless, I guess, if you request one you can. But I think, yeah, making it unanimous sometimes might, uh, let, the only thing, it might let more people get off. I don't think it would convict any more people. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] And we have so many people already, you know, the jails are already overloaded. [speaker001:] Well, the thing is they stay until they all are unanimous. I mean if one is determined that it's, you know, that he feels that he's, you know, going against the other eleven, they all stay until everyone agrees. So I don't know if it would leave anyone getting off more unless someone just gets [NOISE] tired of fighting, you know, just gives in. [speaker002:] Yeah. Well, if it's, no, but they, they, what if they never agree. Doesn't it just, uh, do they have to go back and do a whole new trial or, [speaker001:] And they have to stay in until they all agree [speaker002:] Agree [faint]. [speaker001:] yeah. I don't know, I'm not sure if they go, I mean to twelve new people or what they do exactly, but I do know for sure that all twelve have to agree before he can either, you know, either he or she can either go free or to jail, either one. [speaker002:] Yeah, and that maybe on the lesser crimes that aren't too severe, that's a little stringent [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] Especially because there's twelve. The thing about it is, I think jury selection, too, a lot of times, uh, the lawyers are able to pick and choose who they want on the jury and they can sway them that way, too. [speaker001:] That's, that's just it. I don't understand. You're supposed to, you know, go in if you have, you know, like if you've never heard of the people before or anything, but I don't understand with racialism and the way religion is and everything else how you can get people that are total, totally impartial to it. [speaker002:] I know. I don't think, well, I guess you really can't, but the other thing is when they have the sensational trials, how they get people who aren't swayed by the news either. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] So, uh, but then, again, you know, they, the, one of the questions they asked is, should it just be decided by a judge and that's kind of tricky, too, because a lot of positions the judges are in, they, they can't be fired, you know, they have to, they stay till they retire [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] and sometimes they're pretty partial in their judgements, too [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Yeah, I agree. I don't think it should be left up to the judge alone. Not only, you know, that they have to stay in there, but, hey, how many times have you heard of judges being bought over. [speaker002:] I know. [speaker001:] You know, so it, it's, I, I think, I think in, in the end, the judge has the presiding, you know, uh, vote. I think he can be, you know, I, I don't know if it's the way it is in real life, but I've seen it on T V where the juries go one way and the judge to-, totally finds it obnoxious and he completely, you know, goes the other way. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] Now, I'm not sure if the judge is allowed to do that in everyday life or what. [speaker002:] I think in some cases they are. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] But they know they get to decide how severe the sentence is [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] if it's, you know, so that's another thing where they have the power, but maybe juries could be less than twelve people or would that be more fair or less fair. Maybe there should be more than twelve people [LAUGHTER]. I don't, [speaker001:] Oh, oh, my God. If there were more than twelve, can you imagine how long they'd be sitting [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] I know. I don't know. [speaker001:] I, I think it's just, I don't, I mean, I think it's as fair as it can possibly get, but I just think it's really har-, you know, I mean, some cases go on for years, you know. [speaker002:] That's true, and I've never been on jury duty, but they have to keep going and going and going. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] And lose their, not lose their jobs, but not go to work. [speaker001:] Yeah. I, I don't know how it could be more fair. Course, I don't know. Maybe [speaker002:] It could be, [speaker001:] maybe they should be asking someone that's been on, on trial before. [speaker002:] Really, I've never seen one in real life either so I don't have, you know, I don't know that much about it, but I think, it seems that we have a, a pretty fair system compared to other countries. I don't know how we could make it more fair. I really don't. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] The unanimous vote is questionable, though. And, and how, how many cases get juries might [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] want to be reviewed, too. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] Because, uh, [breathing] I don't know if you should really have a jury for s-, a small infraction. But I'm not sure who gets them [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] I don't know anything [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] I know. I don't know that much about it either. I just, I don't know. I, I guess maybe if they'd go and they'd ask someone in jail, you know, how they can make it more fair for them or not, but then again, maybe they should be there so that is fair. [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] I don't, I, I don't think anyone's going to come up with a better way. [speaker002:] No, whoever came up with this was pretty smart because it was pretty, uh, unique [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] I think, when they started it. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] So, how long do we need to talk? [LAUGHTER]. Do you know? [speaker001:] Oh, I think we can hang up anytime [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Okay. Uh, in, uh, what do I do now? Do you know? Anything, or just [speaker001:] No, I don't [speaker002:] wait for someone else. [speaker001:] what else to say, so. [speaker002:] Okay, well it was nice talking with you. [speaker001:] It was nice talking to you, too. Bye. [speaker002:] Thanks. Bye-bye.

[speaker001:] They're talking about, uh, [talking] federal government, aren't they? [speaker002:] I'm sure, well, actually probably any government, but [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] [Talking] the federal one's the big one [LAUGHTER]. So, uh, so what do you, what do you think in the short term we should be doing to, to improve it? [speaker001:] Well, I saw a program on, uh, recently, and, and it said every time they cut, you know, like fifty-five million dollars on a certain thing, then they brag about how much money they cut, and then they go and spend that money somewhere else [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] and that's why the budget is never balanced. [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] [Talking] The Gramm Rudman Act didn't solve the problem. They just take all the money that they say they cut and they spend it somewhere else [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] or they, you know, they pad out their staff, or, you know, spend it in bounced checks at the, [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] commissary, or. [speaker002:] Uh, yeah, I'm getting pretty, kind of disgusted with the, uh, uh, you know, the fact that they're counting a reduced deficit as being some big step. Right. I mean, first of all, we were, we've already hit the largest deficit, this proposed budget has the largest deficit ever, and, two, a deficit is, I mean, the deficit is only, uh, is, is as far from a balanced budget, you reduce the deficit, you, you're still not, you're still not, you're still overspending. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] Right. I mean, it's just the amount that you're overspending, and this is, [talking] you know, for some reason, the way that the reporting is going on now, it seems like, like the goal is to reduce the deficit to some, you know, still outrageous amount, um, [clicking]. Yeah, I, I, I think in the long term something is going to have to be done with, uh, sort of the, the, uh, well I mean, it seems to be kind of inherent in the political process, right, that you've got, uh, people, you know, trying to, [talking] trying to corner money for their state or for their constituents so that they can get reelected. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] And, uh, there isn't any sort of overall accountability, and, and, uh, I don't know, I, I suppose that, that, that the only kind of solution ultimately that we're going to have, is, is, is exposure and information. And I don't know that in general the American people are that interested, you know, to listen to, to as much, uh, uh, you know, I mean, you're going to have to know what people are doing, and, uh, you know, and how, and how, how partisan and how [LAUGHTER] and how self-interested their, their motives are [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] and, and take it [talking] to task for it, because it's not going to get solved, you know, if people are still trying, you know, like you were saying [talking] you say, you know, hey, we just, you know, we just cut defense, let me grab some of this money for my state now, and then we can throw in some highway bill, or you can throw [talking] in some, you know, some other kind of thing, and, uh, it's a pretty vicious, uh, vicious cycle. I don't know. [speaker001:] Well, I think they should, they should limit the Senate to one term, one six year term. [speaker002:] That's, yeah, that's being batted around. I, uh, my, my dad was always a pro-, proponent of that. He, uh [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] he felt that that would get people involved who were, who were interested in being public servants as opposed to personal servants. [speaker001:] Right, and, and don't let them come back, and, and, uh, keep Congress to, um, two terms of two years a piece [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] and then it'll be overturning and they won't have the same people there all the time [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] and then, all the special interest groups will have to renegotiate all of their [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] their payoffs and kickbacks and that'll keep them busy enough so that they won't have as much influence. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] Because that's one of the things, one of the biggest things is that, uh, the fact that they're always trying to lean somebody toward one way or another, whether it's the oil companies, or the automotive companies, and like the air bag thing. The air bag came out, what, twenty years ago. [speaker002:] Right [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] And only now they're getting that put in cars. [speaker002:] Uh-huh, yeah. [speaker001:] And the oil companies are, really aren't responsible, you know. The Valdez proved that, and then the government doesn't jump on them hard enough to make them do anything. [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] It should have been done immediately. [speaker002:] Yeah, yeah, I think, I think that that's probably right, because in terms of long term, you just got to get people, um, I mean, uh, at one point, at least on a local level, um, going into politics is, you know, what you're doing is, is really trying to serve the community [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] right, I mean, you don't expect to make any money out of it. You know, maybe you gain a little bit of local fame, but, but it's, uh, you put in a lot of work in exchange for that. [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] And I don't have the feeling that national level politicians are, are at all like that. [speaker001:] No. They listen to wherever the money is. [speaker002:] Yeah. And, uh, you know, I think that, that, that the problem with having, you know, junior people coming in all the time is that you end up kind of wasting a lot of time with, uh, you know, with in-, inept politicians [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] or people who don't know how to deal with it. [speaker001:] Yeah, they're not as efficient, that's for sure. [speaker002:] But on the other hand, maybe that's,

[speaker002:] what kind of music do you like [speaker001:] well I I like uh I guess it would be easier to say tell you what kind I don't like I don't like hard rock uh but other than that I I like just about every kind I I'm not real crazy about modern uh country and western I I like the old uh uh country western songs that I grew up with uh San Antonio Rose and uh the Sons of the Pioneers Cool Water and that sort of thing [speaker002:] oh now that I don't know [speaker001:] well see you're not as old as I am [speaker002:] either that or I didn't listen to Sons of the Pioneers I've heard about [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] uh in fact I have a friend who uh plays hammered dulcimer and sings uh yodel cowboy yodeling songs and she talked [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] talks about Patsy Montana I think you know who that was [speaker001:] no [speaker002:] no well that she she that was I gather an old cowgirl who used to [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] sing songs like that [speaker001:] yeah and I I like the old Hank Williams songs [speaker002:] uh-huh uh-huh [speaker001:] but uh the modern kind it seems to me it all sounds just pretty much alike [speaker002:] pretty much like like rock [speaker001:] um yeah well [speaker002:] or or or just too similar to each other [speaker001:] it's hard to tell one song from yeah it's hard to tell one song from the other [speaker002:] yeah yeah [speaker001:] too too be truthful with you I'm sort of a Beethoven and Bach fan [speaker002:] well I like all of that I like classical I when I look at my tapes it's hard to tell I like Celtic music I like classical [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] I like uh some of the new age music [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] I like uh blues uh [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] Muddy Waters people like that I like uh uh what else do I have folk music [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] I like folk music a lot [speaker001:] yeah I have a good friend who grew up in Mexico she's been in this country oh about twelve fifteen years and uh uh she gave me a tape uh of some Spanish music oh what is that dance with the ladies in the long dress and the fans [speaker002:] uh oh you mean uh flamenco oh yes that's beautiful [speaker001:] yeah flamenco it's modern day flamenco music [speaker002:] yeah flamenco's beautiful [speaker001:] yeah and it's really different and it's really pretty [speaker002:] yeah yeah well that that I like and I used to live in Mexico so I like I like Mexican music to a certain extent just because because it reminds me of that time [speaker001:] um-hum um-hum [speaker002:] and then uh um do you play anything [speaker001:] well there're two schools of thought on that [speaker002:] you mean yours and everyone else's [speaker001:] yeah uh I I played in the band in in college I played the clarinet B flat clarinet [speaker002:] uh-huh uh-huh [speaker001:] and then uh I took a semester as an elective I took a semester of class piano and I have a piano and an and an organ not a very fancy organ [speaker002:] wow [speaker001:] but it's an old Hammond [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] uh and uh I I can sight read most church hymns and uh oh the First Movement of Moonlight sonata that goes of course very slowly uh [speaker002:] and do you do it do you play [speaker001:] no not as on a regular basis [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] uh I that's going to be my retirement activity if I can ever ever retire [speaker002:] well I and get back and get back into trying something with music huh [speaker001:] yeah I I do sing in my church choir [speaker002:] oh you do [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] oh well that's great [speaker001:] yeah so so I I I do keep up to that extent [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] do do you play any instruments [speaker002:] no well I played the piano you know as a child uh for years and then quit and then kind of enjoyed it and took the guitar and played the guitar a little bit and I can sight read uh and we have a [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] piano my son was a percussionist and so he has we have a marimba and a drum set if I were to take anything I think I would take drums I just loved it when he did that [speaker001:] um-hum yeah [speaker002:] in in fact one time uh I bought a a two hour session with his teacher for a [speaker001:] um [speaker002:] lady who said she would had always wanted to go and just play all of those percussion instruments that you see including the gong the big big gong [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] and so he let us into the percussion room and we got to play on every single instrument [speaker001:] listen let let me tell you what my uh my retirement job's going to be [speaker002:] what [speaker001:] uh I've just been to the Meyerson one time and the first part was oh Schubert and you know the usual stuff and then there was this very modern day [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] piece that had no rhythm no tune and just sounded like a bunch of racket [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] and in the the middle of the stage was this box about oh four by four by four covered with black black what I have no idea [speaker002:] uh-huh

[speaker001:] so [speaker002:] so [speaker001:] what uh how do you feel about capital punishment [speaker002:] uh tough question I mean it it's I was actually kind of thinking about it the other day someone was talking about it how uh a person who takes someone else's life he was saying should should not deserve the right to have to keep their own life it's kind of it's it's it's a really you know it's a moral dilemma I don't know um [speaker001:] huh [speaker002:] I think that I I forget what the law is in my state I mean my home state I'm from I'm from Maryland [speaker001:] yeah I have no idea what the law is anywhere I've ever lived I just [speaker002:] and I just [speaker001:] I don't know so I I personally uh even though I understand the principle behind capital punishment I don't agree with it ever applying applying capital punishment to anyone um because I sort of believe that if we've got a person arrested that sure we can uh we can say you know it's a murderer he's done heinous crimes but we can keep him in jail for the rest of his life and not give him a terribly pleasant existence and uh there's just no reason to justify killing a person and you know there may be an economic reason but I don't think that's sufficient to justify uh killing someone if you believe that killing is wrong you you might as well apply that to you know even that stays stays true even if you're punishing someone I know that's how I feel [speaker002:] yeah I mean it kind of seems going back to uh eye for an eye hand for a hand kind of thing maybe [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] I don't know it's like uh you kind of wonder do you want someone like Jeffrey Dahmer alive or not oh or or Charles Manson [speaker001:] well it's just that I feel like they don't really pose a threat if they're imprisoned you know sufficiently and [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] you know I I I guess it would be bad if the politics ever changes and they got out for some reason but [speaker002:] I don't see it happening [speaker001:] uh yeah [speaker002:] like I don't see Charles Manson I think he'll never get out he's he's probably going to be up for parole in a year or so but he's not going to it's not going to happen [speaker001:] oh yeah but the thing is you know when these guys get out it can be so quiet you may not notice I mean if the public doesn't hear about it for some reason I mean the thing is Charles Manson was really publicly well know but if it's somebody who's you know a serial killer but he never was really in the media a lot then when he gets out he still won't be in the media [speaker002:] this could be [speaker001:] yeah so I you know uh it could be bad if somebody got out I guess [speaker002:] yeah I I still I think even if they aren't in the media I don't know if it would happen unless maybe it was uh bureaucracy that got pushed aside and someone said ah we'll let them out [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] I don't know someone I don't know I mean I guess there's are probably are small time serial killers that you don't hear about [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] something um [speaker001:] well there have to be because uh uh I don't know there's like well I don't know the numbers but I mean there's at least dozens of capital punishments every year from what I that's what I think it is and you know you don't hear about all of those [speaker002:] I don't know um because I think I don't think they actually execute prisoners very too often because there's I mean there's death row there's a lot of time where uh prisoners are kept on death row for a long time I mean yeah there was uh Ted Bundy [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] there was uh I mean there was such an outcry to um to execute him because it I mean he was the the crimes he did were just so heinous um now I I think that there's it's just such a controversial thing that it doesn't happen too often I'm not so I I don't at least at least I don't hear about it that often [speaker001:] right yeah I don't I don't know either so [speaker002:] um nah I don't think there's been an execution in my state in a long time that I know of [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] yeah and I know that like um uh one of the one of the things that that's that's one of the things that the that Amnesty International is against in the United States is capital punishment yeah [speaker001:] they're against capital punishment oh okay [speaker002:] of any of any kind so that's the one the one thing they have against the United States one of their gripes [speaker001:] well aren't do a lot of countries countries not have capital punishment [speaker002:] uh I don't know there might be some that don't [speaker001:] that'd be interesting to find out who doesn't [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] tough to uh to um what's word I'm looking for uh to justify [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] I guess I kind of waver I guess sometimes it's like someone like Jeffrey Dahmer you kind of want

[speaker002:] so the question is how do we keep up with current events [speaker001:] current events you take a newspaper [speaker002:] as a matter of fact as you called I was uh taking a look at uh the San Francisco Examiner [speaker001:] is that right is that how you usually keep up on the news [speaker002:] yeah uh I watch the MacNeil Lehrer news hour fairly regularly and uh the network news less often [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] and will watch some of the talking heads programs on PBS [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] uh and that's pretty much about it we don't get Time or Newsweek um and uh as a matter of fact I don't get any of those sort of of magazines anymore [speaker001:] yeah I don't either it's mostly by the news but mine is mostly mostly mostly just like the six o'clock news or eleven o'clock is usually about the time I'm ready to look at TV [speaker002:] yeah do you watch the network news [speaker001:] uh yeah some [speaker002:] yeah out here they're moving it to a seven o'clock uh well they're moving the prime time schedule up from uh eight to eleven which used to be eight o'clock at night till eleven o'clock at night now to seven to ten [speaker001:] oh [speaker002:] and I guess the network news which has moved up in time out here um will move up on all three of the local network affiliates [speaker001:] huh [speaker002:] I was just reading as a matter of fact about the news coverage of the movie JFK have you have you seen [speaker001:] yeah that's had a lot of publicity hasn't it [speaker002:] yeah it's really interesting to listen to how different people uh approach different topics um it the I didn't realize this but uh Dan Rather at CBS was the first person to view this Zapruder film that was actually made of the assassination [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] and he had viewed it the day after and uh got it completely backwards in terms of what had happened that was significant because of the obvious contention that there were two gunmen at least and not one and uh it's really interesting and he Rather wrote later admitted that he'd gotten the key piece of uh uh evidence backwards that he'd argued like a lot of other people that Kennedy had lurched forward after the shot and he'd in fact been uh forced backward which lends credence to the two [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] uh to the two gunmen conspiracy theory have you seen the movie [speaker001:] I haven't seen it [speaker002:] I haven't either [speaker001:] but it sure will be interesting to see how see it once I do figure out what all the controversy's about [speaker002:] yeah it is uh you know I uh are you one of those people who believes that it was uh not a lone gunman that that we just never really got the full story [speaker001:] yeah I don't think we got the full story but I don't you know I haven't seen the movie so I don't really have an opinion about what he had to say yet [speaker002:] yeah I I haven't seen the movie either but I I think most of us in this country believe that it just doesn't make sense that it was one guy [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] and uh [speaker001:] but who was involved that's I guess that's the story to tell huh [speaker002:] well that's what Oliver Stone's seeking to do and I I think it's really interesting to look at this because I think it kind of gets at the question of how people get their news sometimes uh really important news comes to people through movies [speaker001:] yeah just like this years later maybe [speaker002:] through television yeah and and I think that's really interesting I know that um uh my wife and I were talking about how uh much uh attitudes toward women uh and and the relationships between men and women husband's and wives uh are changing and I think people get more of that information through television sitcoms than they do through reading the newspaper [speaker001:] that's probably exactly right [speaker002:] uh that was the topic of yesterday's T I conversation and and uh I think it's really interesting because I think all of those things wind up carrying the message and I think uh um it's gonna be real interesting to see where we go with all of the selective channels that people are going to be able to get via cable television and computer services [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] so much uh so much more than we can possibly consume in the way of news [speaker001:] that's right that's right so what brought you to San Francisco have you [speaker002:] um I came up here I was uh working for uh a unit of AT&T and was promoted I came out to California to go to graduate school and and was hired out of the PhD program um in southern California and went to work for a unit of AT&T and they promoted me and moved me up here and we liked it my my wife is from San Diego [speaker001:] did did are you living right in San Francisco then [speaker002:] live uh right out by the park right uh right off uh Lindley Meadow in Golden Gate Park [speaker001:] oh well you're right in the middle of things then aren't you [speaker002:] yeah yeah what took you to Texas [speaker001:] a job [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] my brother lived out here and he and my dad owned a little trucking company and they asked my husband to come and run it [speaker002:] oh yeah [speaker001:] but we lived in Concord for several years before that and he grew up over there in San Mateo so we know that [speaker002:] uh-huh and you grew up in Walnut Creek yeah how long have you been in Texas [speaker001:] right so we um about nine years now [speaker002:] that's do you like it [speaker001:] I do I really like it [speaker002:] that's a I I hear a lot of good things about Texas [speaker001:] yeah I really like it [speaker002:] it's big it's probably more affordable housing it's [speaker001:] boy that's for sure you can't even uh I mean it's not even fathomable that [speaker002:] yeah I well I the the we live yeah living here it's just it's

[speaker001:] start first [speaker002:] sure I guess I'm trying to think do we pay too much taxes uh uh well I it it certainly seems like it I don't know you know I I I'm not up in the uh in in the high end brackets myself and so [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] I can just imagine how bad that would hurt I remember at one point when my dad was paying uh nearly nearly sixty percent tax tax bracket and that was just you know [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] it was killing him [speaker001:] yeah and I think that's that's basically my standpoint too is my dad and I've talked about this a lot and I just personally I think it's kind of I don't know we pay a lot um sometimes I I know that it's not used very wisely and I think the big thing for me and what my dad has said is we pay a lot but it's worth it to live in America I guess for our freedom [speaker002:] yeah uh I mean other places pay more and you know so you can look at some place like Sweden and you know they they almost all give like seventy percent of their income to the government [speaker001:] uh-huh right [speaker002:] um they get some different things out of it though uh I don't know I I'm not I'm not terribly pleased with the distribution of of of it and I think we we spend entirely too much on defense [speaker001:] uh-huh right [speaker002:] um although I work in in sort of hi tech industry type thing and and and which in large part survives on on uh on defense contracting you know so [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] so I mean I kind of biting the hand that feeds you if you really wanna sorry cutting it hard but um I don't know you know it seems like it seems like we ought to be able to get a little bit uh things ought to be a little bit more efficiently run and I I I and I think that we could get by without continually raising taxes [speaker001:] yeah absolutely [speaker002:] you know I mean I think I think we're at a point where you know it's it's taxes are a burden but their you know um services come out of it and and things are important but on the other hand [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] you know they just can't continue to rise forever and the deficit can't continue to grow [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] you know there's there's got to be some point where people sit down and say okay you know this is enough income to give government services at and we need to make sure we give good government service at this point and you know and [speaker001:] um-hum and the sad thing I think personally you know I don't mind paying so much taxes if I'm getting what's due [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] but I think a lot of times what happens is you get into the government system and my dad works for the government in some ways and he works a lot with people who are paid by the government and there are so many things to quote unquote protect the employee [speaker002:] um-hum yeah [speaker001:] that you know you're you're you're not getting what you're paying for a lot of times whereas in any other business situation it'd be see you you know [speaker002:] right right you know there there there isn't there isn't the business cycle where where where government gets uh gets chopped down you know I mean and they they don't go through a restructuring you you know even IBM going through a cutbacks right and and you know government just doesn't do it [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] you know and and and and it's because of in part you know necessary protections for the worker [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] but but on the other hand there's you know you you you've got to plan them in the real world also you know [speaker001:] yeah and you got to walk that fine line I think one of the things that the government really could could save a lot of money on is is you know when it's for example in defense spending when it's something that you can use like an ashtray you know [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] just go buy it at a store my gosh and or buy it from a manufacturer instead of having it made and have to form the mold and everything you know [speaker002:] yeah yeah right [speaker001:] and granted there's other things for example that you know a microwave or something if you're underwater you'd have to have some specific specifications but [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] but just to work out with our tax money you know watch where is it going to be best used and how is it going to be most effective cost wise [speaker002:] yeah right yeah I mean I think I think you you know in general I'm I'm pretty pleased with the government with you know with America and and a lot of the things that work here I mean [speaker001:] oh yeah [speaker002:] it there there's lots of things that don't quite work right and um but if you've ever spent any time in other countries you realize [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] that that its all a relative issue issue you know everywhere everywhere things don't work right and some places they really don't work right and here they they pretty much work right you know [speaker001:] yep yeah [speaker002:] um but I think you know I mean if if things are gonna things that need to change are things that that need to be sort of restructuring you know maybe market orientation a little bit more and and things like what you're talking about um [speaker001:] right um-hum [speaker002:] you know putting a little bit more of the pressures of the of the business pressures that are normal that are on everybody else on the government and uh so that we get a little bit more out of the tax dollars and a little bit [speaker001:] right yeah and I agree with you there I think you know there there's nothing in my opinion from what I've seen and the people I've worked with some other countries and from our own country that that would ever take the place of the freedoms and the the the things that we have here for me I you know I I guess when it comes right down to it if it was living in a place [speaker002:] um [speaker001:] like Mexico or Russia that are really struggling both with the government and with economics I would prefer to pay my extra tax money here and [speaker002:] um-hum yeah [speaker001:] and have things the way they are [speaker002:] yeah I I think my my wife's from Brazil and I've spent a fair amount of time there and and you wanna see a government system that just doesn't work you know I mean it's just its incredible its just entirely corrupt they have uh you know something like uh seventy five percent or sixty five percent of the able bodied workers are employed by the government [speaker001:] uh-huh yeah [speaker002:] you know and so that leaves everybody else you know this other small

[speaker001:] well my favorite type of music is classical music and uh I I enjoy orchestral classical music and I enjoy classical guitar and classical piano you know and that's those are my that's my favorite type uh probably the favorite instrument would be uh the violin [speaker002:] well oh well my favorite well I I don't really have a favorite I I like everything basically um I guess if I had to pick it would be like like pop I would think but I like everything so it's kind of hard to choose sometimes [speaker001:] yeah you know I guess I enjoy I enjoy jazz listening to jazz sometime although I don't feel like I have a good good good understanding of it or a good a good good feel for maybe what's good jazz and what's not but but um I enjoy it and uh sometimes I enjoy listening to uh fiddle music we were in Colorado recently and heard this [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] these uh well we heard this fiddler and we bought his we bought his tape and it's kind of fun to listen to the fiddle pans [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] so [speaker002:] I grew up next door to uh the Richardson Symphony Orchestra leader so [speaker001:] oh Chris Xeros oh you lucky thing [speaker002:] yeah so we used to go and listen to them all the time and my parents still do [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] so I grew up with a lot of his music and and what not plus my parents are well especially my dad likes a lot of classical music and he introduced my brother and I both to a lot of it so [speaker001:] oh gosh Chris Xeros you grew up with his children too then [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] oh gosh [speaker002:] yeah sure did [speaker001:] gosh small world huh [speaker002:] yeah we all went to high school together and we're still in contact with each other we all go back to parents' houses on the weekends and what not so [speaker001:] oh oh gosh well actually I used to play in the Richardson Symphony I played violin in the orchestra for several years [speaker002:] oh really [speaker001:] you know yeah so [speaker002:] it is a small world isn't it [speaker001:] yeah small world so I you know I know Chris [speaker002:] yeah he a pretty nice guy [speaker001:] most of the time [speaker002:] yeah well I never I had to work for him and I never would want to work for him so [speaker001:] no no well life just took different turns here so uh it just doesn't work out to do that now so he's he's about ready to retire another year and he [speaker002:] yeah yeah he sure is he just became a grandfather [speaker001:] yeah I heard that it's it's daughter it's his daughter that [speaker002:] uh uh-huh yeah they just had the baby's christening so [speaker001:] oh [speaker002:] it was really nice so [speaker001:] was it a boy or a girl [speaker002:] he's a little boy [speaker001:] yeah what did they name him [speaker002:] I can't it it's a oh gosh it's like Elijah or something like that [speaker001:] oh [speaker002:] I keep forgetting what what she named him [speaker001:] oh [speaker002:] his middle name is Chris or Christopher for for her daddy but I think it's Elijah [speaker001:] of course oh yeah yeah [speaker002:] it starts with an E I can't remember [speaker001:] oh so you've heard the Richardson Symphony yeah [speaker002:] yes yeah we've heard them and liked liked it real well of course [speaker001:] yeah do you have a favorite instrument [speaker002:] um actually one of my favorite instruments is a harpsichord [speaker001:] yes [speaker002:] I really like those in fact I had a harpsichord played at my wedding [speaker001:] oh did you [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] oh [speaker002:] which was real nice I got married uh during the Christmas season and we we played uh old fashioned Christmas carols instead of normal wedding marches and what not and it was real nice I liked that a lot [speaker001:] oh [speaker002:] I liked the sound of the harpsichord [speaker001:] and it played by itself [speaker002:] no somebody played it [speaker001:] well I mean but you didn't have oboe or something with it [speaker002:] no no no no no just by itself just by itself [speaker001:] oh yeah oh well that's really yeah that's I bet that was nice [speaker002:] it was real nice yeah it went well it was a change you know from your traditional normal normal normal you know stuff and since it was Christmas time and and uh we had the church decorated with Christmas hollies and poinsettias and you know stuff like that and [speaker001:] oh [speaker002:] so we did the harpsichord with old time traditional Christmas carols not not you know the bouncy you know sing along kind but [speaker001:] right right [speaker002:] some of the old older ones that some I don't even I recognize the the melodies and whatnot but I didn't recognize the names [speaker001:] right right [speaker002:] so it was real nice [speaker001:] well actually I play I play the violin in in a string quartet that often plays at weddings [speaker002:] um [speaker001:] so um I always think it's a nice break from the traditional organ or piano [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] and it makes it makes it nice it makes you know you can say classy or it makes an elegant wedding to have something else [speaker002:] it does it really really does and it it has such a different sound to it anyway it's almost I don't know the way it vibrates it's kind of haunting you know on on some of the notes it it's I'd I like it [speaker001:] oh [speaker002:] I don't know how else to explain but we've got friends that are in the music business that go around Dallas they're uh called Odessa it's a husband and wife team that we've known for years and we try to make contact with them periodically to see what's going on and stuff too so we've had a lot of stuff you know friends and and things to do with music that constant and plus my husband's real big into music too so he doesn't play anything but [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] he just likes to listen and my dad and my kids are now well my oldest is getting to the point where he likes certain types of music and favorite songs and when they come on we have to turn the radio up full blast and [speaker001:] oh now does does the school in in your in your city does it does it offer like band or some of the instruments [speaker002:] yeah well my my oldest is only nine so he he hasn't really gotten into um that yet they have choir that they go to you know music class that they go to but um [speaker001:] okay right [speaker002:] he's not old enough yet to get into the band yet [speaker001:] right uh right [speaker002:] so I think that starts in sixth grade [speaker001:] probably oh gosh [speaker002:] so but I don't know he he shows he the only thing he's really shown interest in wanting to play is the drums cause his my my brother plays and um I I don't I don't know if he's really serious about it yet or not you know it's just one of those things I'm just going to wait and see if he's interested in something you know [speaker001:] yeah right right you got a little ways to go too right [speaker002:] yeah just a little bit [speaker001:] great wow well my my oldest is eight and and she's we've started her on piano so uh [speaker002:] uh [speaker001:] but that's been it's been fun I mean it's a lot of work to see that she's prepared but it's been fun it's it's been fun I feel like I've learned a lot about the piano I've learned a lot about playing the piano [speaker002:] really [speaker001:] and uh it kind of makes me listen a little closer to to the piano when I hear it at other places or when I you know see some see and hear someone playing I sort of watch their technique too and and see if it corresponds up to what she's learning [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] so it's been fun so [speaker002:] I don't know if any of mine will be interested in it or

[speaker002:] okay what are your favorite things to watch [speaker001:] oh um let's see I uh I have enjoyed uh Thirtysomething [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] in the past uh now now that it has gone off [speaker002:] uh [speaker001:] some comedy shows uh I can't can't think of off hand of [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] what what are your what is [speaker002:] we do not watch a lot of TV we try to watch it on Thursday nights we usually watch LA Law I like that real well [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] and Cheers we like to watch that [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] ah we like to watch that uh we sort of got hooked on LA Law um do you ever watch that [speaker001:] yeah uh yeah yeah we we we try to catch that most most nights [speaker002:] yeah yeah I I have watched Thirtysomething some in the last couple seasons I was sort of sorry to see it go [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] too [speaker001:] it it was kind of interesting uh some people complained about uh uh the kind of whining or whatever on it I I did I really did not think it was it was that way I think it had some some good uh [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] good situations that it uh presented [speaker002:] yeah I thought a lot of the like the problems that Michael and Hope had in their marriage and stuff I can relate to some of those things and [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] just the dynamics of it and everything [speaker001:] well I think I think a lot of people you know kind of felt that way but they had a lot of uh uh uh counseling groups that used some of the episodes as as examples of of things that were going on and uh [speaker002:] oh really [speaker001:] you you you know that the effect of interaction between people and sort of to use as uh as a way of getting people to talk about their problems that sort of thing uh [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] we kind of uh uh our TV viewing has uh slowed down a little bit since our our daughter came along so uh that that tends to put a cramp in your viewing because by the time you get through getting her ready for bed and everything uh it's uh very little TV time left [speaker002:] yeah you are too tired do anything yeah it's better to spend time with your kids I think though than glued in front of the TV anyway [speaker001:] yeah yeah that's right [speaker002:] probably more worthwhile I just don't I don't think there's as many good things to watch as there used to be really [speaker001:] no I I I can't uh I don't think there were uh I I haven't I haven't uh uh there are not as many good shows that I that I continuously like to watch as much as I used to I uh you know there uh I used to could be able to name ten shows or so you know that I felt were worth my time to watch but uh I I I very seldom like to watch there there's there's a there's a couple now that I tend to want to watch I like uh home improvement shows like Bob Vela's uh Home Home Again on Saturday morning it's enough it's like it's like This Old House but it's uh it's on instead of being on public PBS it's on regular TV but uh it's kind of interesting because I [speaker002:] right yeah oh [speaker001:] they renovate an old house and [speaker002:] uh-huh yeah I've seen parts of that before it is interesting [speaker001:] yeah so uh I I like to watch that uh some some things on PBS I like to watch but uh [speaker002:] do you watch sports much on TV [speaker001:] yeah if it's somebody if it's a team or something that I am really interested in I I am not one to just watch a football game just to be just to be watching it or I am not a big basketball or baseball fan if it unless it's baseball if it's some if it's a team I really like I may watch but uh [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] its uh baseball to me is a little hard to watch on TV for an extended period yeah its so slow that you just get bored I'll I'll switch between [speaker002:] yeah it's slow [speaker001:] something else and and and a baseball game going back and forth you know watching it but I usually if if if it's a football team I really like a college team or or pro team that I'm fond of I usually will will sit and watch that but uh that's the [speaker002:] yeah we are like that and occasionally we'll like on if we do not have anything to do or kind of bored and we just want to sit in the house or something we'll watch a little bit of a golf tournament but uh you can not take a whole lot of that either it's pretty slow [speaker001:] yeah yeah it's kind of like football like baseball [speaker002:] uh do you watch we rent movies a lot on weekends and watch them at home because there's just nothing on Friday and Saturday nights there's nothing good on [speaker001:] right I think that that that's um what more people are doing and I think that's you know as as TV I think that less good shows being on TV has caused a lot of people to do to do that uh you know to get more movies and watch I know we've we've done that too in the past uh we don't do it quite as much now because huh our baby won't let us watch them but uh [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] uh you know we usually will we used to rent uh two or three movies on a weekend and and and try to watch [speaker002:] uh-huh do you have cable TV [speaker001:] no uh we live in [speaker002:] we don't either I thought we were the only ones who didn't have it [speaker001:] no no we uh the uh development we moved into was they have it on on side like right across the street from us but when they built our section they didn't didn't put it in and [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] we've been there about two years now and they're still still do not have it so I'm hoping that [speaker002:] gosh yeah [speaker001:] that soon they'll they'll they'll I have contacted them about this and they say that well it's it's they look they every year they look at different areas and try to determine where where uh the most houses will be and so they [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] they look and they when they when we reach a certain number of people in that area they'll put one in put some in or they'll at least consider it so [speaker002:] huh yeah yeah well we had it for awhile and it just seemed like we never watched any it we didn't have the movie channels we just had all the normal ones that come and we just never watched any of them we kept a log for a month of every time we watched it and it seemed like we didn't watch even half an hour so we decided to just cancel it it does improve the reception a little bit though that's the only thing [speaker001:] yeah um yeah yeah I've uh I've I've uh I have I put some put in some uh an antenna a really good antenna and uh it's really helped you know ours and it's not been too bad I have not really missed it that much there are certain things that I've that I want to see you know occasionally like like a football football game a college game or something that happens to be on cable or some old movie you know I I haven't been bothered by it by it too much [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] so [speaker002:] well I can't uh think of too much else to say since we are not big watchers well it was nice talking to you um bye [speaker001:] right okay all right bye

[speaker002:] I I think that uh recycling is uh is real important right now or or you know for our future of the ecology and everything [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] uh Richardson has uh started recently a newspaper recycling program [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] where uh they pick up newspapers in their is they're part of the regular garbage pickup [speaker001:] um-hum um-hum [speaker002:] on uh Wednesdays every week and then we have recycling centers around you know for aluminum and glass and that kind of stuff [speaker001:] um-hum um-hum so do you recycle up those products [speaker002:] well I have not uh I haven't been doing much in the way of glass and that kind of stuff I have started recycling aluminum cans because of [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] you know I just keep those and then take them to one the sale there's a centers around that buy those [speaker001:] yeah yeah [speaker002:] and and yes I do stack the newspapers and put them out in the alley [speaker001:] um-hum um-hum um-hum [speaker002:] I did notice uh this Wednesday when I put them out I must have gotten them out late because they didn't pick them up so they probably picked them up with the regular garbage yesterday [speaker001:] yeah probably [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] well they're uh out I'm out in uh California recycling has been in for a while I mean it's yes it's very important now I think it's actually always been important we're just recognizing it now that things are starting to run out um [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] it's um the main key to making recycling is to make it more convenient for people I think and the community I was just in not the one I just moved to uh had basically whenever you took your trash out you could just throw another bin of recyclable refuse out and not to be very you know you could have cans and aluminum cans and tin cans and bottles and everything and apparently they sorted it out which increased their labor costs tremendously [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] but uh that sure made it easy I mean there was like no excuse not to recycle you just need two trash cans and if it's recyclable you throw it in one and if it's not you throw it in the other and take both out um so that seemed to have been working quite well um seems like the other thing to make recycling more viable is to make it more economically uh you know increase the economic incentive uh like news recycled recycled newsprint isn't worth very much right now because there's a lot of it available and trees are still cheap [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] so from a purely economic standpoint I'd say recycling one way to increase to increase the viability of recycling is to increase the cost of the raw materials uh through selective taxation or whatever currently most things like aluminum only cost what it costs the company to produce them um without any charge for you know long-term effects on the land or you know with with minimal minimal taxation for replenishing replenishing replenishing the land after the mine is gone or health costs or all sorts of things like that or for that matter anytime you take aluminum out of the ground you can view it as you're stealing if from future generations [speaker002:] yeah I guess that's a one way to look at it [speaker001:] and and no one ever pays them you know basically you run out of these things and uh and then you have to start using something else yeah it seems like we're using up a lot of the abundant materials minerals right now I mean petroleum will be gone in about three decades at the rate we're going and it it just seems like increasing the raw cost of those would uh through you know more sensitivity of what the long term costs would be rather than just the extraction costs would [speaker002:] I guess uh I my main concern with uh with the recycling is that we should be more geared to recycling or to eliminating the use of so much stuff that does not uh return to it's original uh is not biodegradable uh the plastics and the [speaker001:] yeah um-hum [speaker002:] styrofoams and things like that uh I really think we need to to really concentrate a lot more on on limiting those the use of those [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] uh I'm finding I'm I'm almost offended when I go into a restaurant now and they try to give me a styrofoam cup for coffee or something you know [speaker001:] uh uh-huh [speaker002:] but uh I think there's there's got to be a better way [speaker001:] well things are changing I mean I've been really encouraged I've I mean I come from a family that's been recycling for thirty years and uh has always been you know concerned about these things and I'm just now starting to see you know significant social movement towards recycling [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] um the community the Berkeley City Council coined a term called precycling which I liked which is the idea of well you can recycle all these little aluminum cans and all this and that but you can also purchase products in the first place which uh use less resources [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] you know not buy those styrofoam cups not buy individual aluminum cans if you're going to buy soda but get some you know larger reusable cheaper container and things like that [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] uh they call it precycling in other words keep recycling but minimize the original consumption too [speaker002:] right yeah I guess that's a a good idea I do I would like to see uh we talk about buying the larger containers I'd like to see those larger containers not the uh not the plastic bottles I guess is the main thing [speaker001:] well it's funny because plastic is incredibly recyclable um the problem is there's so many different types of plastic and they can't be mixed together [speaker002:] right yeah [speaker001:] but any one type of plastic can be recycled just about easier than anything because it melts down real easily and so forth can be [speaker002:] yeah it's got to but it's got to go back to to the same product or is that is that the way it works [speaker001:] um there are a number of laws about that some things can't be recycled back into the same products for health concerns even though they're not scientifically valid health concerns I mean because some you know anything will get killed when you melt down plastic uh [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] but and other things made to be uh can go back you know glass can go back into glass bottles and stuff [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] but if it's mixed plastic it can only go to certain uses it can make actually plastic lumber for like uh park benches and things like that out of mixed plastic [speaker002:] yeah yeah I saw a uh an advertisement on television yesterday for a garden hose it's a a soaker hose [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] it's made out of recycled tires [speaker001:] um-hum um-hum [speaker002:] and uh I thought that was a was an interesting idea I had not I had not heard of that before but I you know I knew that tires were recycled quite you know quite a bit for different things [speaker001:] um-hum yeah although there's far a lot more could be done there are just there are yards just heaped with mountains literally mountains of tires which they don't know what to do with [speaker002:] right yeah [speaker001:] so if we can do more things with those that would be helpful [speaker002:] yeah but uh I think you know I think that uh that the future should be that uh home builders and you know designers and everybody should be really gearing you know the the home to have a recycling center in it [speaker001:] yeah yeah and more efficient pickups and everything [speaker002:] and uh that's yeah we're uh my wife and I are are looking at you know designing a new house now and uh probably you know some years away before we'll be ready to build it but [speaker001:] um-hum um-hum um-hum [speaker002:] that uh that's one of the things that we're looking at is you know where we where are we going to put the recycling bins [speaker001:] sure some kind of recycling chutes or something [speaker002:] uh-huh right so uh we're going to have that designed you know where you know that in mind when we do our floor plans [speaker001:] well that would be admirable I I think that's wonderful [speaker002:] yeah yeah [speaker001:] well great uh oh the last thing as long as I've got an audience is the uh I really want to see more recycling of batteries [speaker002:] okay it's been oh yeah [speaker001:] because batteries have all kinds of toxins in them and they're quite recyclable and most people just throw them in the trash or they leak into the ground water or all kinds of stuff [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] but most people aren't even aware that batteries are something you shouldn't throw away in the trash [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] I mean like Japan it's illegal to throw batteries away in the trash [speaker002:] when you say batteries do you mean uh automobile batteries or [speaker001:] well those are the worst defenders it's because they're biggest but even some of the small ones [speaker002:] so [speaker001:] need to be disposed of properly just your basic ten cell batteries um once they rust out there's some pretty nasty things in them especially the mercury ones [speaker002:] hum [speaker001:] but um it's it's it's a regular trash item in this country [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] um despite the fact that if you were if you were a company throwing that kind of stuff away the EPA could give you a major fine because it's a toxin [speaker002:] yeah yeah so well that's uh that was some interesting ideas anyway and uh if I get a chance I'll uh pass those along okay uh-huh nice talking to you bye [speaker001:] okay well nice talking with you bye-bye

[speaker002:] okay what do you think are some current trends in uh the way families spend time together based on what you've seen [speaker001:] um I I think that it's getting to where they're not spending time together [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] um I think uh like in my situation today on a weekend when couples are supposed to spend time together my husband's been off doing his thing all day today and I've been off doing my thing all day and I haven't seen him since eight o'clock this morning [speaker002:] really [speaker001:] so uh [speaker002:] are you newly married or [speaker001:] um two years [speaker002:] yeah yeah same same situation here I've been married about ten months so yeah I can I can I know what you mean [speaker001:] it's it's really hard hard to find time to spend together when you both work full time and uh you both have hobbies that are different you know if you have hobbies that are the same then you know you can enjoy your hobby together but my husband and I have different hobbies [speaker002:] yeah is he a hunter and a fisher and all that [speaker001:] no no he's a record collector and a Hot Wheels collector [speaker002:] that's wild that's wild [speaker001:] um so he was off today uh looking at at records [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] so uh and I was off you know doing you know house household type things you know laundry and um did some shopping and stuff [speaker002:] yeah um um from the people I've talked to I don't know if I should bring this into it but um a lot of the dads said that they would probably choose careers that are more um where they could manage their own schedule [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] and uh they could spend more time with their kids because they look back and you know they're all like um kind of regretful I think [speaker001:] yeah I I think I think that would be the ideal situation I think that a lot of people like in my case I I do shift work [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] I don't I don't have that choice [speaker002:] yeah same here [speaker001:] um I have to be at work at at X hour you know at this at at a certain hour and I can't it's not flexible um it it would be nice to be able to have flexible hours and and maybe after we decide to have kids I I might find a job that has flexible hours I would I hope so anyway um but I would I don't know [speaker002:] yeah that at TI is that where you work [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] it's really kind of sad some of the people that I work with they like when I worked on second shift um their parent their kids go to school during the day and then they wouldn't see them at night because they would be in you know at work and the kids are going to be in bed [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] and so it was kind of like they see their kids for fifteen minutes and the same with their spouses this relative may work even a weirder shift like weekends or something you know [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] so it was really sad just you know that a lot of families um have to well you know have to have dual income a lot of people choose to which is fine [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] but you know then the kids come to suffer [speaker001:] yeah I ideally it would it would be nice to be able to just have like back in the old days you know back like when when I grew up [speaker002:] uh-huh huh yeah [speaker001:] you know the the mom stayed home you know and raised the kids my mom didn't go back to work until I was in junior high school [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] um so she was there pretty much all my you know formative years [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] and that was nice and I liked that and I would hope that I would be able to give that to my kids [speaker002:] uh [speaker001:] but I think with the way the future is um economy wise I don't think it's going to be realistic [speaker002:] I know unfortunately that's probably true um do you think some the the parents spend quality time with their kids are do you think it's more like watching TV and stuff like that not really uh [speaker001:] I yeah I I think that I think very few spend quality time I think most of the time the kids are usually off watching cartoons or playing video games or stuff stuff like that I think that um [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] um uh most most kids that I see don't really they don't really value quality time [speaker002:] yeah it's always that way until [speaker001:] until until they're older and then they look back [speaker002:] until it's too late yeah it's true um what's what are some other questions they have I'm not sure I know my parents are growing up I guess they never spent much time watching TV in fact I've never seen my mom turn on the TV we didn't really have one very often [speaker001:] oh really [speaker002:] yeah and and they spent a lot of time like outside with us and stuff but you know my dad had his own business and it was easier for them to do that but I I don't know it was I guess I didn't realize what a luxury it was at the time [speaker001:] yeah I I think kids now a days are raised on TV I mean that's that's almost like a surrogate TV is a surrogate parent [speaker002:] yeah yeah that's a good way to put it [speaker001:] and not a and not a very good one at that [speaker002:] yeah pretty good way to put it if I had kids well if you had kids what kind of things do you hope to do [speaker001:] um I I hope to of course be able to teach them right from wrong I hope I hope to be able to spend um their growing up years being in the home you know not having to work um and being able to do I I I know a lot of people who who um [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] um I work part-time also and I a lot of people that I work for are mothers that stay home [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] um and they they do a lot of volunteer work and they're real active in the community and um they do a lot of things with their kids that they wouldn't ordinarily be able to do if they were working [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] and I'd I'd like to be able to do that I'd like to be able to stay home and be able to spend time with my kids [speaker002:] do volunteer work and be in clubs and stuff yeah I agree I hope that happens in my case [speaker001:] yeah yeah but I think that's for the the few and far between I think that uh probably ninety percent of the of the um parents out there are are probably working parents [speaker002:] yeah yeah huh [speaker001:] and I I don't I don't really see that that trend changing much if anything I think there's going to be fewer and fewer uh single income families [speaker002:] I know yeah and what's sad about that is day cares end up instilling values in your kids [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] that may not necessarily be consistent with yours [speaker001:] exactly see I I never I don't even know what day care is really all about because I I never went to a day care center I never I never had that kind of experience [speaker002:] yeah huh I well I don't even think we had I don't even remember them being around when we were little [speaker001:] yeah I I see it seems like that's that's a big trend you know in the last ten years day cares have have have popped up and become a lot more um a lot bigger part of of the kids lives [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] it's like a home away from home for a lot of them [speaker002:] sure is um well I guess we could ring this off since we we've exhausted all of our ideas we seem to agree [speaker001:] yeah I I think yeah I think this is a good closing point [speaker002:] yeah so [speaker001:] well it was really nice talking to you [speaker002:] yeah you too I wish you the best [speaker001:] thanks you too um bye bye-bye [speaker002:] okay thanks bye-bye

[speaker001:] uh what are the capital punishment laws in your state [speaker002:] uh they're [speaker001:] or do you have it [speaker002:] uh they're they're the death penalty can be imposed [speaker001:] yeah uh or is it set for a specific crimes uh you know if you're convicted of this then it's the death penalty or or is it kind of just to the discretion under certain cases [speaker002:] uh it's uh murder it it can be is I think is the only can be tried for you know for uh capital punishment [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] and I firmly believe in it [speaker001:] yes uh I I'm the same way I feel that capital punishment ought to be mandatory under certain crimes [speaker002:] I do too here in Utah there's been a a person that's been on death row for I oh seventeen years I think and they just keep retrying and retrying and I just it's just a waste of taxpayers' money and and I really think it would be a deterrent [speaker001:] sounds like he'd grow old and die long before they get to kill him [speaker002:] yes yes but uh [speaker001:] seventeen years on death row [speaker002:] um-hum uh I think he's that he's the longest one in the nation that and they just keep retrying him and retrying him [speaker001:] well uh since they reinstated the death penalty was it about seven or eight years ago I think the shortest anybody's waited has been two or three years I mean death penalty does not seem to be swift for anybody [speaker002:] no is what's the death penalty in Mississippi [speaker001:] I so that's my understanding they do not have death penalty here right now um [speaker002:] I mean the capital [speaker001:] it doesn't make any sense that they don't but they don't um and right now to the best of my understanding there is nothing afoot to get it reinstated uh personally I think there should be death penalty for uh the death penalty should be available almost any major violent crime and mandatory for murder [speaker002:] I I agree with you they believe [speaker001:] it should be at least available as punishment for rape [speaker002:] yes definitely [speaker001:] I think if it was a serious possible of being executed for doing any of the major crimes that it would be a little less likely for people to commit them [speaker002:] well one thing I can't understand is is these people that uh uh torture torture children and then murder I mean you know and then they're they eventually kill them [speaker001:] yes [speaker002:] and I definitely think that that should be a death penalty and they get less than than people that have are murdered [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] I don't understand that I I just can't see how come a person that has kills a little child can get away with two or three years or five years five to fifteen [speaker001:] yeah and it [speaker002:] because [speaker001:] I don't know I if I think also they should be they uh somebody providing drugs to someone that kills the person [speaker002:] yes [speaker001:] that ought to be considered murder and potential death penalty [speaker002:] boy we think alike [speaker001:] I uh they used to have the death penalty in my home state of West Virginia [speaker002:] oh [speaker001:] and there it was death by hanging [speaker002:] uh-huh uh [speaker001:] uh but [speaker002:] how old are you may I ask [speaker001:] thirty four [speaker002:] oh uh-huh [speaker001:] and it when they eliminated death penalty all kinds of things changed [speaker002:] yes they do [speaker001:] uh the rate of crime doubled within about about a year or so [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] and at that point when they were still hanging the uh state prison in Mountsville uh had a very small guard force and they had very little problems with their their inmates [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] uh after they eliminated the death penalty shut down the gallows [speaker002:] um-hum um-hum [speaker001:] uh the place has gotten to the point where people who live in that area are all trying to get moved away it's become a maximum security prison they have had a whole lot more problems with breakouts with uh with violence within the the prison [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] uh uh just the whole whole tenor of the thing has changed completely [speaker002:] I wonder why I wonder why they don't uh don't uh see that they need the death penalty then because haven't you heard that they say that the death penalty does not uh deter crime [speaker001:] who is it who said the death penalty doesn't deter crime well I'm sure it doesn't much now because the death penalty is very seldom uh given and [speaker002:] used [speaker001:] even then like you say it could be twenty twenty years between the time

[speaker001:] Why don't you go ahead and say what you feel, and then I'll respond. [speaker002:] All right. Well, I'm, uh, I'm very guilty of, of not doing my part with recycling, I'm afraid. We, um, recently moved here from North Carolina, and [inhaling] they had curbside recycling, and it was very easy to, you know, to put everything out there, but we don't have it in, at least in our neighborhood right now [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] and, uh, so, I've been very guilty about not making the effort to, to take things where take things where they belong. [speaker001:] Well, how long have you been here? [speaker002:] Well, we've been here since January, so [speaker001:] Well, [speaker002:] we, we still feel very new, but, uh [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] it's working up to a year now, so, I guess we're old timers compared to some people. [speaker001:] Yeah, I think that's a good excuse. You need to get into the [LAUGHTER] [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] the system a little more and know where to take things. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] We've been here probably two and a half years, and, and we didn't recycle at all before we came [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] so I think we're doing well. We, we save most of our aluminum cans and glass [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] and newspaper right now. [speaker002:] Well, where do you take those things? [speaker001:] Well, the, um, glass and the newspaper we usually take to Walmart. They have, um, in behind Walmart they have bins [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] and then we usually save up our cans and, and change them in for money. [speaker002:] Well, where do you do that, because we've been saving cans for my daughter's choir [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] um, but I didn't know where to take them. [speaker001:] Um, there's a place on Parker Road, um, it's just over the overpass before you get like to K-Mart. I think there's a, a service station there. There's usually a semi truck that has a, a person there that will weigh them and, [speaker002:] Oh. [speaker001:] Now they aren't worth much right now, but [LAUGHTER] [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] it's better than nothing [LAUGHTER], so [speaker002:] Better than nothing, right. [speaker001:] and what I hear a lot of neighborhoods do have the, the pickup now, and we, hopefully we'll be getting them in the month of October. [speaker002:] Yeah, I, it seems like ever since we've moved here we've been hearing that, you know [speaker001:] Yeah, and, [speaker002:] it's coming in a couple of months, but [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] I think it's been delayed. I think it was originally scheduled for February, but the trucks that were supposed to do it, there's been some problems with [speaker002:] Oh. [speaker001:] from what I've read in, you know, the mail that we get [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] and I can't wait for that, that will be easy. I get tired of newspaper littering the garage [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Yeah, it gets to be a bit much to haul it off, but. [speaker001:] I feel guilty we don't recycle our, our milk containers because they seem like a big waste. [speaker002:] Well, they, yeah they, they're a lot of bulk, anyway [speaker001:] Yeah [speaker002:] yeah. [speaker001:] yeah, they fill up the whole kitchen [LAUGHTER] garbage can [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] so, I'll be glad when the bins do come, and I think that's when I'll, I'll start doing the plastic, too. [speaker002:] Yeah, it was real easy with the bins, it really was, it was just no effort at all, um, no more trouble than taking out the garbage, so, um, [speaker001:] Yeah. I've gotten used to washing the, you know, the, um, salad dressing bottles and [LAUGHTER] [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] things like that, it's not that big of a deal, and it's nicer to just throw them out, but we can do our part [LAUGHTER] [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] take an extra minute or two. [speaker002:] Well, how much do you earn on the cans, I, I didn't know ho-, what kind of an idea to give her for, [speaker001:] Oh, when we first were, were here, it was like we'd take maybe a, oh, a grocery sack full or [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] maybe two grocery sacks full, and it would be like two dollars [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] but since last time we've gotten more like a dollar. [speaker002:] So it's gone down. [speaker001:] Yeah [speaker002:] Yeah, [speaker001:] which is understandable, I think, more people are [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] are recycling. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] That's something we, we don't really make any effort to, and whatever pop we drink, we used to take the boys out for a bike ride, and pick up the litter, you know, the, the cans [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] and that was kind of fun, but we haven't done that for a long time [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] so. [speaker002:] Well, that sounds like a pretty good project. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Well, the boys think it's fun, plus you get your exercise and [LAUGHTER], [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] you do get to stop once in a while when there is a can to rest [LAUGHTER], [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] so [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] Oh. [speaker001:] but. [speaker002:] Well, I'll have to keep myself and, and ge-, get on it. My neighbor across the street, um, is so careful about recycling, and so I keep telling myself, I'll, I'll get it organized, but, may, maybe they'll beat me and, and do the city wide first. [speaker001:] Well, hopefully the bins will be here in this month and that will spur you on, so [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Right, right, I won't have any excuse then, that's for sure. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] All right, well, it sounds like we're doing our part and at least starting, [speaker002:] Thinking about it, anyway [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Trying [LAUGHTER] that's all you can do [speaker002:] Yeah, but, [speaker001:] so. [speaker002:] Well, um, have you, do they time this thing for us, or do we, [speaker001:] Um, yeah, you can do it as long as you want. They, you know, if it's been long enough, five minutes is, is when they cut in and say, say, we don't have any more room for recording [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] You can't chat all day, huh [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] So [speaker002:] Okay. [speaker001:] we can say good-bye now. It was good talking to you, and maybe we'll get on line again. [speaker002:] Okay. [speaker001:] Thanks, Sherry. [speaker002:] Bye-bye. [speaker001:] Bye-bye.

[speaker002:] what kind of car do you drive now [speaker001:] I drive a Honda Prelude and [speaker002:] do you I drive a Honda Accord [speaker001:] oh yeah [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] I bought mine a year ago so I'm not buying a car any time soon [speaker002:] yeah me either I just bought mine uh it'll be a year in August [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] I love it though I love Hondas [speaker001:] yeah it [speaker002:] I think I found my car [speaker001:] well I I like where all the controls are [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] they're they're in good spots and I I have an automatic I can't drive a standard [speaker002:] oh really I have a standard [speaker001:] yeah but um I it's and it's supposedly real reliable the only thing I've ever heard about Hondas is that the breaks go out first yeah [speaker002:] oh really I hadn't heard that [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] what did you have before you bought that [speaker001:] I had a Buick Regal [speaker002:] did you [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] I had uh Mazda RX seven before that and that was the worse car I've ever driven in my life [speaker001:] the Buick was was great it was nine years old and and it was still going strong the only [speaker002:] really [speaker001:] problems I had had with it in nine years that I owned it I had to replace the compressor when it was about seven years old [speaker002:] really [speaker001:] and that was the only major problem that I had I mean I had little piddly things like I had to replace the muffler and I had replaced the tires and [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] uh seems like it had a radiator leak once but I never had any major anything other than the compressor [speaker002:] right I never really had anything major with my Mazda but it was a standard also and the clutch went out on it toward the end I had it five years and the last year or last two years it seemed to go out really easily I think it went out twice in two years and that's that's a lot it shouldn't go out that much [speaker001:] no hm [speaker002:] and so I went ahead and bought another standard when I bought the Honda but I don't think I'm going to do that again I think I'm going back to automatic now [speaker001:] well I never well well I kind of know how to drive standard but I've never owned one so I hadn't I don't drive one a lot so I don't feel feel comfortable in traffic with it [speaker002:] right right [speaker001:] and for everything I've heard it's a lot easier to sell an automatic [speaker002:] yeah it is [speaker001:] and [speaker002:] that's true [speaker001:] and resale value is really important to me [speaker002:] yeah it is me too that's why I got the Honda Hondas have great resale value [speaker001:] yeah yeah [speaker002:] the Mazda definitely did not not at all they're worse than American cars I think or just as bad as far as resale goes [speaker001:] really I did pretty well with my uh Regal because it was in really good shape but it still looked real nice the the interior was still really nice there what'n cracks all over the dash board and stuff and [speaker002:] yeah right [speaker001:] and it had some some nice features so I ended up okay with the Buick [speaker002:] good [speaker001:] and I anticipate the same thing with the Honda whenever I decide to sell it course I may never sell it [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] I may drive it till it's dead but [speaker002:] yeah that's what I did with the Mazda drive it till the till the clutch went out and the wheels fell off so probably what I'll do again [speaker001:] yeah yeah [speaker002:] but I really like the Hondas I like foreign cars a lot [speaker001:] um-hum yeah [speaker002:] I looked at the Mitsubishi Galant I was looking for a four door car having driven the RX seven so long and it was so small [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] and it's really impractical so I wanted something with a real trunk and four doors something easy to get in and out of and I looked at the Galant and those were really nice and you can get them for a great price [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] but I found it hard to deal with the dealership I was going through so that's how I ended up with a Honda [speaker001:] oh hm I wasn't even looking for a car when I bought this car I uh I was thinking about buying a Prelude from a friend who was moving to New York or something so and she was gonna sell her car because she didn't need it anymore and it was only like a year old and I had never driven uh a Prelude so I went to a dealership because they had like uh the same year and same model of Prelude on their used car lot and I went and I test drove it [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] and you know I just fell in love with this brand new white Prelude [speaker002:] oh yeah [speaker001:] you know two liter SI with the the sun roof and the moon roof and I I bought it loaded [speaker002:] they're nice I think oh yeah oh yeah I have to have them loaded I I love all those little things that you don't need but they're so wonderful [speaker001:] I mean yeah yeah I went there looking at a used car and two days later I bought this car I I felt I felt like that was the worst impulse that was that was the largest impulse buy I had ever made the other the two other things that I've bought on impulse are VCR and a washer and dryer I go for the big stuff [speaker002:] I would say yeah I noticed [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] mine was definitely not impulse I really needed a new car mine was just it's getting worn out I guess from being a sports car I drove it kind of hard [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] and I got it right after high school so by the time I traded it in it was ready ready to go [speaker001:] yeah I got I got my Buick as a high school graduation gift [speaker002:] did you [speaker001:] yeah but I I guess this what'n really an impulse I mean buying it right then and you know right quickly was kind of impulsive but I'd been thinking about buying a new car for three years and I was just scared to [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] I was scared to start taking on payments because the Buick was long since paid for [speaker002:] right that's same with me would you ever buy a used car for a new car for yourself [speaker001:] buy a buy a buy a used car sure [speaker002:] like right I I was going to buy one once and I just I worry about who's driven them and what they've been through and the warranties and things like that just I can't seem to get over that that just bothers me I don't know why [speaker001:] yeah well um like on Hondas they supposedly the maintenance records are supposed to be registered with Honda or whatever and you can request whatever maintenance records exist on cars and you can have them checked out by mechanics and stuff [speaker002:] yeah that's true [speaker001:] mean they can't stop you from doing it so [speaker002:] hoping that they do go to a Honda dealership to get them serviced [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] well and even if they didn't you can still get a good idea from a if you can get a good mechanic to check it over real carefully and check the blocks and everything [speaker002:] yeah that's true [speaker001:] so [speaker002:] well I guess that's all [speaker001:] okay well I enjoyed talking to you [speaker002:] I enjoyed talking to you bye-bye [speaker001:] bye-bye

[speaker002:] do you know something about how to take care of kids [speaker001:] yeah I was just wondering how did this get on my list how how did this subject get on my list oh well I'm not sure um [speaker002:] it's what I I don't know I've got mine [speaker001:] well uh my children are grown now but I used care child care services uh for a number of years and I I don't know if I had it to do it over again maybe I would be a little more selective and really you know find out more about them I think the main thing was that I needed someone to take care of my children and I and I generally used some place that was either you know uh close to where I lived or close to where I worked and I really never had any had any real problems and I always felt like that they did a good job and um but I don't have small children now so uh I don't know if it would be different now you know I hear I hear I know a lot of uh mothers or uh people that I work with and they are you know putting their children in different places [speaker002:] well yeah I I don't have kids yet um I won't for a couple uh for at least two or three years and my wife is planning on probably taking care of them at that point um [speaker001:] um so you yeah uh I suppose uh depends it depends on what kind of program they have especially for summer summer programs um whether or not you know a lot of it is uh when they're in school and you know their after school thing you'd hope that they would have time for studying but most of the time they don't they just play [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] but uh I think Summer time I'll I I know I was talking to one lady she's just changing her daughter to a different uh child care center for the Summer because they have so much more structured time and they offer different classes like her daughter's going to be taking gymnastics and she said if she had left her where that she was uh previously that a lot of time would you know just be free time for them to do whatever they wanted do and a lot of times they get bored so [speaker002:] that's actually yeah what I've been I'm thinking of the child care center because they have like licensing procedures and and stuff like that that seems to me you know good and I mean it is a state license to seemingly more often than not that means that they're good and they have lots of activities and people who know how to take care of the kids [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] and some [speaker001:] and I guess the ratio of of workers to children you know would be something to consider uh especially if they're little bitty children that would be a I would I I would hate to leave an uh a real small baby you know [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] uh before say before three or four years old anything anyone younger younger than that I'd just kind of feel kind of uncomfortable about leaving the child but [speaker002:] with somebody else yeah oh I agree [speaker001:] yeah but I did it so I mean but but I look back on some of the things that I did with my kids and I shudder [speaker002:] and I wonder actually I wonder about costs because most people I know who who have kids you know uh one parent doesn't work a part of the time you know only works part time and takes care of the kid part time and then it turns out that that person's salary just winds up going to paying [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] the people who who who take care of the kids [speaker001:] that's true that's true [speaker002:] you know that which which amazes me um I I you know it never occurred to me how expensive that sort of thing can be [speaker001:] so basically I think that that when they do that that person really feels a need to get out of the house and you know even if their the money is going mostly to child care they're not really having much to take home [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] it's something a filling fulfilling another another need I suppose than staying home with with children all the time but that's a tough deal to do too too you know but uh it'd be nice to to work you know I don't know I don't know a good solution to that but but it's it's tough to be I started I started to say stuck at home with children all the time and never getting out that that's just probably not a real good way to put it [speaker002:] yeah that [speaker001:] but some people you know they their their life and children can be a full time job and you don't have time for anything else so you so I would say maybe you know a day or two a week to get out to go do something else not necessarily go back to work or something but I don't know [speaker002:] yeah I don't I don't you know I just yeah it it just strange because people do I mean in that sense it probably is pretty good to go out and just who cares if it if if all your salary goes to pay somebody you sort of get away for a while too we have I don't I don't um it's strange it's funny that I should get this particular we should be on this topic now because uh because we have even though we have no kids we have people staying with us [speaker001:] um-hum um-hum [speaker002:] um for the for the for the for the the weekend and they have a six a six year old son and a three month old son [speaker001:] oh [speaker002:] so I'm just sort of seeing what all the hassles are you know of you know like last night we we we the six year old decided he wanted to go camping in the back yard so we pitched a tent in the dark yard actually and his father and and the little boy and I all went out and had you know a a boy's a boys' night out [speaker001:] oh really [speaker002:] in the back yard and about quarter of one he woke up half crying and he couldn't sleep and this and that I mean we we wanted to bring him inside so when about a one o'clock in the morning we all got up and sort of wandered inside so I'm think all the benefits of taking care of kids or all the fun part of taking care of kids I guess [speaker001:] uh-huh yeah I tell you it's uh yeah maybe it's something before you start having children you know maybe there's a lot of stuff but but if if you'll never have them if you start doing all that get too logical about it but it's great it's great having kids and then uh yeah I think everybody ought to ought to try it [speaker002:] yeah we plan on a couple of years and I just like it's just like child care will become very important to my life then [speaker001:] yeah yeah she'll probably she'll probably spend a lot more time finding the right place uh [speaker002:] you know [speaker001:] I don't know I I tend to think if they're licensed then they're you know I don't know I you know you you can feel you can get a feel from it too if your child is too small you can't but if you if they're old enough to to know you know they'll they'll let you know if they're unhappy or if or if someone isn't treating them well or [speaker002:] yeah that that that that's probably true although I I don't like you say I don't know if I'd put a kid there who's less than you know uh four years old or something [speaker001:] I'll tell you one thing is that my of course I'm I'm a single parent and so I guess and um my my son was five and my daughter was two and I had uh they had to go in child care but uh but I think they were more uh well I uh my sister who had two boys and she did not work and she and she had a real difficult time when the when time for them to go to school they did not uh want to leave her and my children who were so used to being out and uh learning how to get along with other children and taking directions and stuff like that they just went very smoothly off into school you know without a problem so I think even if you don't leave them full time but have them you know preschool or mother's day out or couple things a couple of days a week or something like that I think it's always good [speaker002:] yeah probably just to make friends and and stuff like that [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] yeah I if it's just like I say this is a very foreign topic for me so [speaker001:] so [speaker002:] one of those things I have to learn about I do I work with kids a lot [speaker001:] you do [speaker002:] I I I do work with kids a lot I uh I I do uh um I teach a karate class twice a week with with with kids [speaker001:] oh oh what age [speaker002:] um they're four to seven actually there's one at I work mostly with four to seven and then eight to twelve I I'm I'm the class so I I help out in this class and uh and it's really um weird because I'm not you know the first when I first started doing it I I can put it this way it it it's helped me gain lots of respect for people who can work with lots large numbers of kids [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] because when I first started like I had no idea how to how to handle a five five year old kid with especially when there are ten of the m floating around and you're supposed to be running around teaching them things and [speaker001:] um do they pay have uh their attention span is it do do you have a hard time holding their attention [speaker002:] of course uh I I do but I'm finding there's there's uh another person there who has good he has got absolutely no training from what I know but he's just wonderful with kids and he seems to know how to hold their attention you know he keeps them he does lots of you know he's he's he's fast moving with them they'll do this exercise they'll do that they'll do this they'll do that he keeps them moving quick enough that you know when they stop losing attention they start you know they're the all of a sudden they're switched [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] and you know there're a couple in there who actually have um who I think have attention deficit disorders or they have very very low attention and those are harder to work with but I you know but I I I I uh the regular ones you know the normal kids you can just let them go a little bit and and and he sort of he's real good at keeping them in line I'm learning from him how to do these sort of things just just by watching him [speaker001:] did you say uh your karate class is all boys or mixed [speaker002:] no it's it's boys and girls it it it it's mixed there are uh there are um more boys than girls but there are a number of number of girls in there who actually uh do some good stuff and beat up a lot of the little girls I mean I mean a lot of the little boys too [speaker001:] is that right why why would a parent want their child to take karate or is it the child wants to take it uh [speaker002:] um in some case actually a lot of parents send their kids or just bring their kids because because of the sort of discipline you know and it it's not we don't you know say get down and do a hundred push ups for me now you little guy but um it teaches we we we focus very highly on you know on on on issues of respect and self-discipline and self-confidence we have a lot of students kids who come in very shy you know and unsure of themselves and and you can see them come you know week by week that they come more and more out of their shells and start to become you know more sociable and more sure of themselves instead of more sure footed [speaker001:] hm [speaker002:] you know um and the parents love it actually they find you know we we we there are rules like the kids aren't allowed kids have to bring their report card in every after every quarter or whenever or whenever they get their report cards they have to bring them in to make sure that they're keeping up with their grades

[speaker001:] okay [speaker002:] okay what kind of hobbies do you have [speaker001:] well if uh I like to do I like to make stuffed animals I I sort of have not been doing as much as I did you know before I had to work for real but I like to do things like that and uh [speaker002:] uh-huh yeah [speaker001:] you know bottle covers and [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] that sort of stuff and dancing [speaker002:] oh [speaker001:] the dancing I've I've kept up with because you know you don't have to well you don't have to get a lot of stuff out you know [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] what do you do [speaker002:] well I sew [speaker001:] oh [speaker002:] clothes you know [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] that's like a hobby because I don't ever make anybody nothing but me or maybe little kids I've I've done weddings but not not not big weddings like you know [speaker001:] oh wow um-hum [speaker002:] big big weddings just bride's maid's dresses and stuff like that for people that I know [speaker001:] yeah yeah [speaker002:] you know so I don't want to be paid to do it because then it becomes a job and then it's not a hobby you know [speaker001:] wow yeah and then it then it puts a lot of responsibility on you [speaker002:] and a lot of stress too [speaker001:] yeah yeah [speaker002:] you know especially I don't want to do this and I don't want to do that so it's then it's not a hobby it's more of a job but I like to sew you know it calms me down [speaker001:] oh well that yeah yeah I like to sew too but you know if I'm not in the mood to sew I can screw things up like you wouldn't believe [speaker002:] oh yes and then I go ballooning [speaker001:] yeah and then it lies in a drawer for about five or six years at least [speaker002:] hot air no hot I go hot air ballooning [speaker001:] oh do you really [speaker002:] yeah in a hot a hot air balloon [speaker001:] oh wow how exciting [speaker002:] in a hot air balloon yes now that's fun [speaker001:] oh I'll bet [speaker002:] and uh well I don't I don't own a balloon but I crew for a guy he owns two balloons [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] and he'll call us up and say let's go and so we'll meet you know real early in the morning people think we're crazy because we get up so early in the morning but I love it [speaker001:] yeah oh that's neat [speaker002:] and I always tell people if you ever go up in one you just that's it you be hooked [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] and they're so pretty and you know [speaker001:] is it is it hard to make it come down where you want to [speaker002:] well you don't have a choice [speaker001:] oh it just comes down when it wants to [speaker002:] well you don't have a choice of where you're going so when you get ready to come down you have to you know you it's more or less like letting the air out he can land more or less where he wants to it's just that there's no like if he wanted to go one place he would have to know which way the wind is blowing [speaker001:] yeah uh-huh right yeah [speaker002:] but other than that that's the only fall back you know because the winds change he goes the other direction and and we we have to follow him around you know [speaker001:] yeah well have you flown in one of those where they have a whole bunch that go you know like up at one time [speaker002:] yeah that's just Plano they have Plano festival [speaker001:] yeah how long have they been doing that [speaker002:] uh let's see now I think we're on number eight or tenth we're almost to number ten I think because I've been here ten years [speaker001:] oh well that's neat [speaker002:] so yeah and then Mesquite is five they do one in Mesquite [speaker001:] what about that one they do in Albuquerque [speaker002:] now that's old that is that is the largest [speaker001:] yeah that's the oldest one isn't it [speaker002:] yeah that's the largest one in the world they they have over six hundred balloons [speaker001:] wow [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] how many do they have like at the Plano one usually [speaker002:] about sixty it's it's getting larger last year I think we had eighty [speaker001:] yeah yeah probably every year it'll [speaker002:] um-hum more people get involved and stuff like that [speaker001:] yep yeah [speaker002:] but you have sponsored balloons you know like companies like Coors [speaker001:] yeah because those things are pretty expensive aren't they [speaker002:] uh yeah Oldsmobile they all have balloons you know [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] the IBM had one last year now TI don't have one and Rockwell I mean yeah Rockwell they don't have one Rockwell whatever it is [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] none of the major electronic companies have them but uh like Southwestern Bell 7-Up they have balloons [speaker001:] yeah I had a friend at TI Detroit a long time ago that had one that a bank [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] you know had sponsored [speaker002:] yeah now banks they sponsor different banks out here like Bank One sponsored one one year and I can't think of the rest of them but they they you know they have sponsors for certain balloons and all they do is just put the name of the bank or whoever's sponsoring that balloon that balloon yeah it's pretty good [speaker001:] yeah and it looks so pretty when they're all you know when there's a bunch of them that way [speaker002:] uh oh yeah and it's so peaceful we went out to Texas Stadium one time for a Boy Scout jamboree [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] and we we was inside of the stadium like like I was thinking it the Astrodome [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] and they filled it up the football field [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] and inflated all the balloons [speaker001:] oh [speaker002:] and it's it was so pretty that if you got way up at the top it looked like you could just dive off and and and bounce on a bunch of pillows you know it was good it was fun I had fun [speaker001:] yeah wow sounds fun [speaker002:] but that that's my that's probably my main hobby that sewing and reading books that's about it [speaker001:] oh I like to read too what kind of books do you like [speaker002:] do you really romance [speaker001:] yeah I like those I like mysteries I like murder mysteries too [speaker002:] uh um um-hum [speaker001:] have you ever read any Dean Koontz [speaker002:] huh-uh [speaker001:] he's he's sort of it's he he's writes real good but usually it's the kind though that you don't want to start if you have to put it down very soon [speaker002:] go anywhere yeah [speaker001:] yeah yeah the he does well they're sort of scary you know but they're they're just really really good [speaker002:] uh uh [speaker001:] The Watchers you know they made a movie of The Watchers here not too long ago [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] and that was a book that he wrote that that was my favorite one it's about this dog named Einstein and this it was he was an experimental government thing you know [speaker002:] huh uh-huh [speaker001:] and they were trying to do like like robotic stuff and everything [speaker002:] oh I seen that movie [speaker001:] yeah yeah well the the book was just ever so much better [speaker002:] yeah really [speaker001:] yeah it was great [speaker002:] I don't like I don't like scary books I can't I can't read those I get paranoid [speaker001:] you like uh uh who is it uh Victoria Victoria Holt is that right [speaker002:] yeah she's one [speaker001:] yeah those are good I like those [speaker002:] but I like I I'm a Danielle Steele fan [speaker001:] oh really [speaker002:] yes [speaker001:] well that's I [speaker002:] I have every book the woman's ever wrote [speaker001:] really [speaker002:] and two of her books have been on three of them's been on TV [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] and I got all three of them on tape and I'm fixing to tape this other one that's coming on Monday Changes yeah [speaker001:] oh what what what one is that [speaker002:] Changes [speaker001:] hum [speaker002:] and I had the book and I hadn't read it in so long so I read it the other day to see if I could so I can watch the movie [speaker001:] yeah yeah usually the the movies are not as good [speaker002:] the book is always the book is always better [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] you know but you know but because I know some of the stuff like that one Judith Krantz made that one they did that one really they did okay but I liked the book better [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] it was good [speaker001:] yeah that's usually the way it is [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] sometimes they just change them completely [speaker002:] yeah and you think it's the same but it's really not [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] like Jaws do you remember Jaws did you [speaker002:] yeah the book was different from the [speaker001:] yeah the book was a lot better I thought [speaker002:] oh yeah [speaker001:] but they just they just [speaker002:] um-hum so what else do you like to do besides reading [speaker001:] well my dancing is I I like to belly dance [speaker002:] oh belly dance [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] you mean like those little thin in the little roll the bellies [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] I can't do that I've always tried to do that I've always wanted to though I didn't how people can get they stomach [speaker001:] well you know it's it's real funny because when I first started it was like I saw someone at a Halloween party this lady was from Turkey and she'd been belly dancing since she was four years old you know so I thought well jeez you know that looks like fun I'll learn that in a couple of weeks ha [speaker002:] um-hum yeah [speaker001:] yeah you know I mean you could just you could just take lessons forever forever I think [speaker002:] yeah right um [speaker001:] course I'm tend to be a slow learner I guess anyway but it's a lot of fun and it's it's a good way to get exercise you know fooling yourself because you don't realize you're getting exercise you know it's so much fun you don't really think about it [speaker002:] um [speaker001:] and exercising I mean let's face it exercising stinks [speaker002:] um [speaker001:] oh I go to aerobics classes and stuff but [speaker002:] I like that [speaker001:] do you [speaker002:] aerobics yeah I like aerobics [speaker001:] are you do do you are you at TI in Dallas so so you go to the fitness center [speaker002:] in Dallas no I go to jazzercise [speaker001:] no oh yeah yeah I well the only time I can go in too and all these classes that are available are like Saturday [speaker002:] oh really [speaker001:] yeah Saturday morning which is you know I I go to those when I can [speaker002:] oh they have them at night over here [speaker001:] yeah well they have uh the they have them like at six [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] you know here but I [speaker002:] no we have six and seven no six and then one is at seven ten or something like that [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] but I like jazzercise I like it better than aerobics [speaker001:] yeah that's a lot of fun well yeah that's the same kind of thing like belly dancing you know you don't really realize that you're working as hard as you are [speaker002:] because you're having fun [speaker001:] yeah and it's sort of cute too [speaker002:] and yeah I like jazzercise I'll tell anybody I'd go to jazzercise before I'd go to aerobics [speaker001:] yeah yeah well see I belong to the fitness center so I feel like I have to go to the aerobics class to get my money's worth you know [speaker002:] yeah I used to belong I I but I stopped that because I never used it [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] you know the the fitness centers so oh well that's a waste of money [speaker001:] um-hum yeah well it's so neat because it's right there and I can go just right after work and you know before I get home because once I get home that that tends to be it so [speaker002:] yeah I'm thinking about it my husband wants he wants to go to and sign up for the weights [speaker001:] um-hum yeah and yeah that's handy and they're just there you know when you want to use them [speaker002:] so but um-hum and they're open till I think ten [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] yeah so [speaker001:] yeah and I I did the family thing so my sweetie could go too [speaker002:] I don't know um-hum [speaker001:] do the weights [speaker002:] yep [speaker001:] he'll he'll he would never do an aerobics he'd die before he in aerobics class [speaker002:] oh yeah [speaker001:] but he likes the weights and the you know stationary bicycle and all that [speaker002:] um-hum yep my husband likes the weights period that's it he wants to be up like he wants to he says I'm going to pump up I said uh-huh [speaker001:] body build huh [speaker002:] yeah because I'm always looking at those guys I love them [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] but I always ask him how come they don't ever have no hair because I've never [speaker001:] I think they shave it [speaker002:] yeah they do and I told him I said well if you do it you can't shave your hair [speaker001:] yeah and put [speaker002:] I'm sorry I can't handle it [speaker001:] and then then oil up I think [speaker002:] um-hum they do and then I don't know how they get because normally they're not that pumped up and I

[speaker001:] uh the last movie that I saw I I don't go to that many so I'll just have to talk about the ones that I went to see but uh it was Awakenings with uh Robin Williams and uh Peter DeNiro [speaker002:] okay yes uh-huh [speaker001:] have you seen it [speaker002:] no unfortunately I haven't I heard it's really good but [speaker001:] it is I just have to take my hat off to Peter DeNiro he is one of the best actors I've ever seen it's [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] there's a point where the uh the show is about these uh catatonic type people that this doctor discovers a drug that brings them back to the the living more or less [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] but it wears off and the way it wears off is he goes through all these spastic you know uh it starts off with like a tic and then it gets to where he can't you know control his movements at all [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] and it was just so realistic the way you know you have to just keep reminding yourself that he's an actor [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] though [speaker002:] what does um is Robby Robin Williams does he have a funny part in the movie or is [speaker001:] no it was very serious very serious [speaker002:] oh how does he do serious stuff [speaker001:] he's good he's he's talented boy he is [speaker002:] yes yes I've only seen him in funny stuff and so [speaker001:] I know me too but uh well what was that show um Garfield uh Garfield I want to say Garfield but that wasn't [speaker002:] yeah uh Garp The World of Garp [speaker001:] yeah The World According to Garp he wasn't always funny in that show was he [speaker002:] I didn't read see the the movie I read the book but I [speaker001:] I did too and that's why I was thinking it couldn't be just a totally funny part but [speaker002:] yeah yeah yeah in fact it got some pretty serious deep parts in it so [speaker001:] yeah right [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] well what have you seen [speaker002:] I think the last movie that we went out to see was Dances With Wolves [speaker001:] oh I saw it [speaker002:] uh well good we've both seen one did you cry through much of [speaker001:] yes the whole way [speaker002:] I was telling a friend I I said I only cried twice but each was about half an hour long so [speaker001:] where did you cry [speaker002:] um let's see when I each time that I thought that the Indians were going to get killed I cried um I cried the first time when the um [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] the wagon man got killed when they attacked him [speaker001:] uh-huh yeah yeah [speaker002:] and um I think from there on through the movie let's see what else did it [speaker001:] um [speaker002:] what other parts I can't remember any of the other parts right yeah [speaker001:] I cried when the horse got killed and when the wolf got killed [speaker002:] well I don't remember when the horse got killed [speaker001:] oh they when he was riding back to the settlement and they shot his horse out from under him [speaker002:] oh yeah yeah [speaker001:] and then he uh the next day he looked out there and saw those buzzards you know and that horse has been such a pal to him [speaker002:] um-hum yeah [speaker001:] when he was alone you can tell I'm an animal lover you can hear my dog [speaker002:] uh unfortunately we don't have any animals so um [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] but [speaker001:] it was a beautiful story it really was [speaker002:] it there was a lot of pretty scenery too in that movie what did you think about the buffalo scenes [speaker001:] um-hum um oh I thought it was awful [speaker002:] that was [speaker001:] and so graphic I mean I hadn't even imagined it you know I think we've all heard the story of the slaughter of the buffalo [speaker002:] yeah um-hum [speaker001:] um I had a friend who had fixed some uh chili buffalo chili and about a week before went to see the movie of course they raise them now you know to eat [speaker002:] oh oh uh-huh yeah that's not [speaker001:] but she we were both feeling so guilty about enjoying this chili uh after seeing that [speaker002:] um-hum yeah well at least you know that it wasn't same situation that the buffalo died in [speaker001:] no it wasn't [speaker002:] um I thought the scenes when the buffaloes running though were beautiful like that was great and there were so many of them I didn't know that that many buffaloes alive much less in one place [speaker001:] oh yeah yeah really [speaker002:] so that was pretty [speaker001:] really and to think about how it just changed the whole landscape you know you could follow this this beaten down path [speaker002:] um-hum yeah [speaker001:] and it sounded like thunder and earthquakes and that sort of thing [speaker002:] I wonder how they kept up with them though it seemed like the buffaloes were moving so fast I guess they graze though that wouldn't have been a problem [speaker001:] I know yeah yeah it uh uh have you seen any of the behind the scenes uh of of that movie [speaker002:] no huh-uh [speaker001:] it was they tried to keep it you know as very close to real [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] I mean like Kevin Costner did all of his own scenes and uh they had to teach a wolf how to to howl uh-huh that's the part they had trouble finding was wolves [speaker002:] oh I guess they're just not domesticated or or [speaker001:] yeah right they just don't howl that much anymore [speaker002:] huh [speaker001:] I could they could bring them in with my dogs and set a siren off and that's all they'd have to do [speaker002:] that'll teach them with a couple minutes huh [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] well that's funny [speaker001:] well I think we've made it [speaker002:] yeah oh is that five minutes is that [speaker001:] I don't know is it five or three [speaker002:] okay oh I'm not sure [speaker001:] I'm not either [speaker002:] okay well I think we're we're we've done okay though well thank you for calling [speaker001:] okay me too well thank you [speaker002:] hope you enjoy some more good movies lately [speaker001:] yeah you too bye bye [speaker002:] bye bye

[speaker001:] Okay, well, some of the things I like to do are, I like to knit. I knit sometimes, and I sew [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] and, uh, I like to sew sometimes for my kids. I, I sew clothes for them every once in a while. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] [Lipsmack] And I make quilts. [speaker002:] Oh, wow, that's the next project that I'd like to learn to do. I do mostly hand needlework like cross stitch and crewel embroidery and I'm, I'm beginning to get a little bored with cross stitch. I was thinking maybe need to learn to quilt. [speaker001:] After a while, cross stitch, I th-, I [LAUGHTER] don't know. I have [speaker002:] It gets boring. [speaker001:] to put it away and then I have to bring it back. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] You know. And, and, uh, I don't know why that is. I don't know if it's looking at the little th-, [LAUGHTER] things every time. [speaker002:] Well, it reaches a point where it doesn't seem to be very challenging, I think. [speaker001:] Yeah, that might be it. [speaker002:] But I do [speaker001:] That might [faint], and yet, there's, [speaker002:] a lot of it in the car. We, [speaker001:] Oh, do you? [speaker002:] Yeah, we commute from Plano to Dallas [speaker001:] Oh. [speaker002:] so I have nearly an hour both ways that I can really get a lot of work done and [speaker001:] Oh, I bet. [speaker002:] I found that cross stitch is the easiest to do in the car. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] I don't know that I could even think about quilting. You have to have a pretty good frame, don't you, to [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] do any kind of quilting work? [speaker001:] Yeah. Uh, I've not really done any, too much challenging, uh, stuff. I, I can do it with a, a needle and thread [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] you know, but, uh, and get about five small stitches in, which is pretty good, but it's very long. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] It's very tedious if you don't have a whole group, you're not finishing a quilt in a long time [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Oh, I bet. [speaker001:] So, uh, [speaker002:] But, it's such a lost art. [speaker001:] So, uh, I like to just mostly do the tie quilts. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] That's so much easier. [speaker002:] Yes. [speaker001:] But, uh, the other ones are very pretty. They're, uh, we have a quilt on our bed that's, instead of, like, yarn [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] they tied, uh, ribbon into it. [speaker002:] [Lipsmack] Oh. [speaker001:] And it's real pretty. [speaker002:] I bet. [speaker001:] It's real pretty. [speaker002:] There's so many things I wish I had learned to do with my mother. She had crocheted a full bedspread. It's kind of a hobnail [speaker001:] Oh, wow. [speaker002:] looking thing. And when I look at it now, she's been dead for a long time [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] I think oh, why didn't I learn these crafts and skills from her because she could crochet and [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] do so many of the old things that aren't in vogue right now that people just don't know how to do. [speaker001:] Now did you say you could knit? [speaker002:] No. [speaker001:] Oh. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. Haven't tried that either. [speaker001:] Well, I was going to say because, [speaker002:] I want to learn to crochet. I, [speaker001:] Because if you could knit, you could crochet. [speaker002:] Really? [speaker001:] It's just like doing one handed as long as you learn how to, to weave the, the yarn in between your fingers on your left hand. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] And then you just use your right hand with the hook. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] And that's not, it's really not too difficult. You could learn that, I'm sure [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] and pick that up. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] If you, I think if you can do any handicraft, you can learn to crochet. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] It's not too difficult. [speaker002:] It's funny, when you were talking about sewing, I love to do anything by hand with a needle. [speaker001:] Yeah [faint]. [speaker002:] But I'm totally intimidated if I sit down at a sewing machine. I never learned, and I get real nervous whereas usually the other needlework stuff is relaxing to me. [speaker001:] Isn't that interesting. [speaker002:] But I just have a phobia about not being able to actually sew. [speaker001:] I think that's really interesting. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] Huh. And yet, you know, I think about, you know, you said you do a lot of needlework and, and there are some beautiful, just gorgeous patterns [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] that people do. And I, I just think that, uh, that's one of, one of the arts that I think are really pretty. And a lot of people don't do that either. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] You know, and so, [speaker002:] Well, it's hard to find the time. I, I wouldn't if I didn't have this car time ability probably [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] because at night if I sit down, I'm doing something with the kids or [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] just not sitting down at all [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] That's true. You know, and, and I always think, well, I can do this and watch T V or something [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] you know. And, uh, it seems like I always get my mind carried away to something else and then it doesn't [speaker002:] Well, it, [speaker001:] quite work or, [speaker002:] I'm at the age where bifocals or trifocals would be necessary. It's so I find myself putting glasses on to, to watch T V and then taking them off to do needlework and I get frustrated doing that so [LAUGHTER]. Just give it up. [speaker001:] And, you know, I like to sketch. I can, I can sketch something, like if I see a picture, like, out of a book, I can sketch that [speaker002:] Ooh. [speaker001:] and that's nice and everything, but, you know, it's funny, I can't [LAUGHTER], I can't draw it out of my own head [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] kind of thing. I wish I could. And, and yet I can't do, you know, like, like, uh, craft, uh, on wood. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] I can't do that painting thing. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] And yet, [speaker002:] I'm the same way. If I see something, I can copy it, but I certainly can't create. I admire people that have that in their minds already. [speaker001:] Yeah, me, too. Me, too. I know a woman who's just wonderful at that. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] And I look at it and, you know, you look at those things and you wish so badly that you could do them. I guess, if you wanted to, you could take classes and learn. I guess that's the only way I could do it. [speaker002:] Well, sometimes, even with that. I, I think you have to have some,

[speaker001:] ah I take a lot of magazines that I don't have time to read right away how about you [speaker002:] well I normally buy them at the grocery store I get like McCalls and Woman's Day and and Ladies' Home Journal [speaker001:] oh oh that way you can get them as you as you wanna read them [speaker002:] yeah if I have time to read them [speaker001:] you know well mine I subscribe and then I'll let them stack up and then and then I'll drop my subscription for a year and catch up [speaker002:] I understand that actually for a while we were taking like Family Handyman and Thousand and One Home Ideas [speaker001:] uh you you think you can make yeah uh-huh [speaker002:] because our house is like forty five years well fifty years old now and we were trying to do see what we could do for renovations so [speaker001:] oh my oh well that's good do you find the magazines help you on that [speaker002:] they really uh they've got a lot of good ideas [speaker001:] um-hum well we [speaker002:] and it it's nice to get I mean at least on those you could get a lot of tips from it which you may not want to do the project exactly like they show you how to do it but at least they'll give you ideas that you can use parts and bits and pieces of it [speaker001:] um-hum yeah I have a friend who does that with her magazines and she keeps a file and cuts them out then she has them when she needs them [speaker002:] uh-huh that's I've started doing that because I had so many magazines pile up on my desk at work and and around the house is cutting out recipes and putting them in like a photo album [speaker001:] um-hum um-hum oh yeah that's a good idea [speaker002:] and as long as they're only on one side of the page but that way you know you can do that with recipes out of anything and then little organizing tips and and handy hints around the house and that kind of stuff [speaker001:] um-hum um-hum um-hum um-hum [speaker002:] but I like I like those kind of the women's magazine I guess they're called [speaker001:] oh yes oh yes oh yes I think that my husband gets as much out of that recipes as I do on those he likes to read those [speaker002:] uh-huh uh-huh well they've got some some good ideas on things that I probably wouldn't try otherwise you know [speaker001:] that's true and then you read halfway through the recipe and it's stuff you don't buy otherwise [speaker002:] exactly yeah we do that too [speaker001:] yeah we also take uh A Progressive Farmer and we uh get a lot of hints we uh we have a a weekend farm and we get a lot of hints on gardening from that [speaker002:] oh oh [speaker001:] and then the gardening magazines and uh I found out that we could plant uh fall potatoes and I'm gonna wait and hope that they grow so uh I guess [speaker002:] ooh ooh my mother-in-law does a lot of gardening and I know she takes a couple of gardening magazines too as well as as well as seed catalogs [speaker001:] a lot of those are in um-hum oh yeah the seed catalogs are fun to look through even if you don't buy them [speaker002:] uh-huh uh-huh I like to look through just when we go down there that's interesting because they have a little a little place outside of Waxahachie so that's nice to go down there [speaker001:] um-hum ooh well that's they used to oh and right where the rain is tonight oh ooh my are they all right [speaker002:] yes yes exactly um as far as we know actually I think they're out of town this or they are either on their way back or just got back from Georgia so hopefully they missed most of the rain [speaker001:] well good yeah well on the magazines again it sounds like you and I like about the same things I like to look at the pretty pictures [speaker002:] uh-huh I do too and I like to look at some of the fashion things going I'd never buy that for that price I can get it at Target or somewhere else and I can make do with something a lot closer [speaker001:] um-hum um-hum uh-huh if it's gonna cost that much I'll do with what I already have right or some of the styles are kind of weird too so [speaker002:] uh yeah that's a they really are I noticed one today as I was looking through a magazine up again cleaning out my desk and looking for one specific thing and I found an article on [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] you take this red wool dress knit wool dress and you can accessorize it with beads or with with uh [speaker001:] um-hum um-hum [speaker002:] you can put a sweater over it or you can just wear it with leggings or you could wear it with all different jewelry and it's like okay [speaker001:] um and bells yeah give you some good ideas [speaker002:] that would be cute it would be cute but I couldn't see myself doing any of that I'm only thirty but I just still can't see myself doing that [speaker001:] no oh well oh well there's some of us that are uh don't do things I I see people come in with the leggings up to whatever and the real short things and I don't know how they but I guess if they feel comfortable in them [speaker002:] yeah oh well yeah that's I can I like what they call harem pants the baggy slacks but I can't see wearing just the leggings and a a a sweater something like that is like nope sorry not my style not quite [speaker001:] oh yeah um-hum um-hum yeah I was looking at a magazine today at the hairstyles and it was showing what it assumed was I think twelve different styles and they were all cut alike [speaker002:] uh-huh huh [speaker001:] but they did something a little different with them [speaker002:] uh-huh but that that I would be interested in that would be good if I could actually get my hair to do that [speaker001:] yeah that's yeah that helps and I course and yeah and course the proverbial diets and uh all that but every book seems to have that diet in it [speaker002:] and Mary Ellen's helpful helpful hints and all those now see I like those I think those are fun [speaker001:] oh yeah I lost twenty five pounds yeah I lost twenty five pounds now you can do the same oh yeah [speaker002:] that's right that's right sure just eating right seven days a week and um-hum [speaker001:] uh-huh and exercise and do all this fancy stuff at morning noon and night [speaker002:] uh-huh when we have two kids and and have to work full time right right [speaker001:] well right and you do this in your spare time while you're talking on the telephone right [speaker002:] that's right that's right you're supposed to

[speaker001:] okay we're on uh recycling and uh [speaker002:] yes [speaker001:] I am not real well informed on exactly what Richardson does I know that we uh [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] they ask us to bundle our newspapers and we do that and we recycle our aluminum pop cans and stuff [speaker002:] I see [speaker001:] but now Plano has quite an elaborate system don't they [speaker002:] yeah they do uh it started out several years ago when they put these uh collection sites [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] they uh near a Wal-Mart near a the football stadium and the like and they just couldn't believe how many people were going out of their way to fill these things up these huge dumpsters were being filled up in a in a matter of a week so they knew that there was something going on here so they started looking into programs and what we have now it they changed the whole way that they do garbage in Plano instead of collecting plastic bags of garbage two days a week [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] they make a collection on Monday for yard waste and the yard waste has to be put in the special bag that's a decomposable paper sack [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] it's a pretty good size it's maybe the size of two or three um grocery bags [speaker001:] oh [speaker002:] and we put that out by the street and they collect those on Monday and then on Wednesday we put out two containers that they gave us one container's a huge green monstrous thing that a uh a special truck comes by and hooks onto the side of it and flips the container into the back of the garbage truck so and that's where you put your regular um garbage and trash [speaker001:] okay [speaker002:] and then also that same day you put out a small tub uh it's maybe two feet high and three feet by two feet wide and you put just throw in your aluminum and your milk jugs and newspaper and then they [speaker001:] okay and then they recycle they separate it [speaker002:] exactly they have a big truck that has like ten uh not ten maybe five big doors on the side of it they throw the different stuff in the different doors [speaker001:] oh that's a neat system [speaker002:] yeah it is and apparently it's you know it it went off pretty much without a hitch the trucks the special five door trucks were a little tough in getting because of something to do with the Persian Gulf war [speaker001:] oh uh-huh [speaker002:] that the the trucks were being the engines or something were being shipped over there for something or other but it it does work pretty well [speaker001:] well I know our son and daughter-in-law live in Plano and I know they have commented on the system I don't know that they know that it worked that way but they have the two separate containers and stuff [speaker002:] oh yes uh-huh I noticed something interesting the last time I guess two Wednesdays ago when they were picking up I happened to be out there in the morning when they were picking up the that tub stuff and the man who was doing the separating when he was done emptying the tub he took a little electronic reader device off of his belt and he read the bar code that was on the side of the tub so they must be collecting information about who does it and how often [speaker001:] oh that is interesting does I wonder if that means that if you don't do it [speaker002:] yeah um-hum [speaker001:] you suppose they will come and knock on your door and [speaker002:] I I don't know but I think that's a really interesting question [speaker001:] that that is interesting you know will you be penalized if you don't will you you know uh [speaker002:] yeah that that seems far-fetched only because it it it there's no law that says you have to buy a newspaper or pop cans or milk jugs so there there's it's possible that there is a person in Plano that doesn't buy any of those three things [speaker001:] right right [speaker002:] and therefore wouldn't have [speaker001:] that's true except that it's hard to match and you know when you have uh cans you know from the the market and uh you know vegetable cans and et cetera and [speaker002:] right no they won't take vegetable cans just just the aluminum pop cans [speaker001:] oh they don't take vegetable cans this is just their aluminum cans well then yes it is possible that's interesting I wonder uh [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] huh [speaker002:] yeah what they're doing with that [speaker001:] wouldn't you really like to know [speaker002:] I would someday I'm sure we'll find out [speaker001:] I'm sure you know if nothing else call the sanitation department say okay what are you doing reading you know [speaker002:] yeah um-hum so tell me what your feelings on recycling is it do you think this is a good thing or silly [speaker001:] I think it's a very good thing I think that uh I think it helps that the city is giving you a nudge to do it because I think there are a lot of people that don't do it and I can't say that my husband and I are real real conscientious we got started on the aluminum cans because our uh [speaker002:] yes [speaker001:] grandson was collecting them uh to raise money and uh stuff for an organization he was in so we started collecting them and now he's through so we've we've just we've kept on [speaker002:] huh yes yeah [speaker001:] and it's interesting too that we have to drive we drive to Plano up Plano Road to uh just inside your city limits to you know turn them in to dump them in I sure there's bound to be some here in Richardson but we just haven't really seen them advertised or you know something and [speaker002:] dump them off yeah and that is interesting right yeah well the Plano yeah the Plano newspaper each each day in fact has a a little list of all the recycling centers for all the different things they publish it every single day [speaker001:] well that's interesting [speaker002:] yeah and phone numbers and and that kind of stuff [speaker001:] um-hum well I haven't noticed uh I haven't noticed Richardson you know making that big a deal

[speaker001:] okay [speaker002:] um do you have a favorite credit card that you use [speaker001:] um I probably use my Discover card more than anything else [speaker002:] because any particular reason [speaker001:] uh no I really don't use too many credit cards I'm not fond of them I don't like using them [speaker002:] um-hum um-hum [speaker001:] but I've just gotten to the point where I'd rather carry that instead of cash [speaker002:] yeah I know what you mean [speaker001:] but but the thing is I always carry it with my checkbook so if I have I just pay for it with my check instead of [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] I think I've only ever used my credit card maybe three or four times [speaker002:] oh really wow [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] well I use um a credit card that's given out by US Air [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] well not given out I mean there's an annual fee um and the neat thing about the credit card is for every dollar that you charge you get one frequent flyer mile [speaker001:] um-hum oh [speaker002:] and um my husband and I tend to charge a lot and even things that we wouldn't normally charge now we charge because we've racked up seriously close in the past couple of years close to five or six thousand dollars just by charging [speaker001:] yeah wow [speaker002:] and um it's really great because you can get some good discounts um on US Air you know using frequent flyer mileage and all that [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] um and the annual fee isn't bad I think it's maybe thirty five dollars a year [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] um and here in Rochester maybe in in Pennsylvania also but you can charge your groceries [speaker001:] yeah uh-huh yeah [speaker002:] can you do that there which is great [speaker001:] with only only certain certain cards they accept though they don't accept all kinds of cards like they only accept the major cards [speaker002:] oh oh do do they accept Discover or no [speaker001:] um I don't know they do accept the Discover but I know they would accept like Visa Master Card [speaker002:] um-hum yeah [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] well I love it and now um actually our our mortgage company is starting I think June first or something is going to start allowing people to charge their mortgage [speaker001:] oh my [speaker002:] and that's going to be great um and in the beginning we were having a problem because we would charge everything and then get this enormous bill [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] and just be totally wiped out because one thing I hate is paying interest [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] I refuse to pay interest if I'm going to do that I'm not going to use a credit card [speaker001:] exactly exactly [speaker002:] so what I do now is I I work it like a checkbook and every time I charge something I write it rout I write it out so I'm not fooling myself into thinking I have that money [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] you know I write it out and then it's it's as if I paid in cash [speaker001:] exactly yeah [speaker002:] so you're somebody that will pay off your bills right away [speaker001:] uh yes yes definitely that see that if if I don't have the money in my checking account I will not charge it even if I have the charge [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] I have to have that money before I'll charge it [speaker002:] um-hum yep I know what you mean [speaker001:] I refuse well I'm a college student and I'm a finance major [speaker002:] oh [speaker001:] so and um I don't I oh my gosh I probably I have a Discover card [speaker002:] well that makes sense [speaker001:] I have an AT&T card but I don't use it because I don't even know where it is I put it away like two years ago because I thought if I don't see it I won't use it which is really good because then [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] I you know a lot of my friends have like outrageous phone bills but I don't have it because I don't use mine [speaker002:] oh yeah [speaker001:] and um I know I have Montgomery Ward's I have a um a J C Penney's I have a Kaufman's you know I have a Fashion Bug I have a whole bunch of them [speaker002:] um-hum um-hum [speaker001:] and I just used my J C Penney card and it's a year old and that was the first time I've ever used it [speaker002:] really well [speaker001:] yeah I just I don't think to use them all the time and if I do use one I would rather use my Discover card one [speaker002:] um-hum um-hum [speaker001:] and they're getting to the point now too at the end of the year [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] all the money that you've you've charged on they'll pay you I think it's ten percent back [speaker002:] um-hum a discount yeah yeah [speaker001:] so you know I even got a couple dollars back [speaker002:] seem um-hum it's definitely worth if you pay off your bills in full then credit cards are a real good idea [speaker001:] um-hum yeah [speaker002:] because you don't have to carry a whole lot of cash and you get the interest you know if you charge at the beginning of the month then you're getting a month's worth of interest [speaker001:] exactly [speaker002:] in your account [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] um but the second you let it go even one month um they had made an error on our statement where they never posted the payment yet I had the canceled check I had everything [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] and um I mean for that amount it was like a thirty dollar interest charge [speaker001:] oh my gosh [speaker002:] that's like another purchase for me it buying something [speaker001:] yeah me too that would definitely be for me too um-hum [speaker002:] yeah but um you know one thing one of the reasons because I have some of those cards that you mentioned and I think about it and a lot of reason I have those cards because J C Penney offered you know a free gift if you buy it [speaker001:] uh that's why I have it [speaker002:] yeah or five dollars off this purchase if you you know sign up and [speaker001:] uh-huh um-hum [speaker002:] and uh as long as it because I don't J C Penney doesn't cost you anything I don't think [speaker001:] no huh-uh no [speaker002:] right and so as long as it doesn't cost you anything then [speaker001:] that that yeah and being a college student I get um applications for them all the time I think once a week I have an application and the first thing I check for is if there's an annual fee if there's an annual fee I ditch it because I don't use them that often so it wouldn't even pay me to get it even if it was you know [speaker002:] oh yeah um-hum yeah [speaker001:] and uh my Discover card I have no annual fee and my mom like I started using mine and I told my mom about it [speaker002:] um-hum um-hum [speaker001:] and now she buys everything with her Discover Discover card and she works it the way you do with your card she writes it down like she would a check and then you know that way she's getting the interest on it too because at the end of the year they give her back her interest [speaker002:] um-hum oh yeah um-hum oh right [speaker001:] and I think she got back like fifty some dollars last year [speaker002:] uh wow that is great [speaker001:] so I mean she might spend three thousand but if you get thirty of it back you know that's still thirty dollars less [speaker002:] um-hum yeah right and that's thirty dollars that you didn't pay any money to have it in the first place [speaker001:] exactly and she you know my mom's like that too she pays it off as soon as the bill comes [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] one thing I still don't understand about credit cards is is how you can borrow money off a credit card I still haven't quite figured that out [speaker001:] I haven't tried it I don't trust it [speaker002:] I know I don't trust it either and um I know you can do it with a Visa card but it just seems like too simple and I know that there's some hidden [speaker001:] um-hum there's so there's so much fine print that I don't understand that I won't even try it [speaker002:] yeah yeah yeah [speaker001:] yeah I just rely on my Mac card [speaker002:] on your what [speaker001:] my Mac card just take it out of the bank [speaker002:] oh just yeah the machine one thing that um that does scare me a little bit about my credit card is when I am giving it over the phone [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] or you know if I I I tend to buy a lot of things from TV like not not the shopper's thing but sometimes they'll be something good that they're selling a record or something like that and um [speaker001:] um-hum yeah [speaker002:] and after I do it I think God who did I give my number to [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] and um you know what are they going to do with it how can I trust them or whatever [speaker001:] um-hum yeah [speaker002:] but um the credit card company I did have a charge on there once that I had no receipt for I had no recollection I didn't even know the the store [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] and they took it right off no questions I just said this isn't my charge if you can prove that it is then great if you can't then um you know just take it off [speaker001:] okay um-hum yeah they're usually I think they're usually pretty good about that [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] uh I mean they they probably realized it was their mistake if if they really thought that it was not their mistake I think they would probably send you something proving that you actually did have it so [speaker002:] yeah oh yeah yeah they would pursue it definitely [speaker001:] yeah uh-huh I I'm I'm starting to use my credit card more like I said I'm a college student and the past two semesters I bought my books with it [speaker002:] yeah oh yeah [speaker001:] so and I run between two and three hundred dollars a semester with books [speaker002:] um-hum um yeah [speaker001:] so that's approximately between five and six hundred dollars that I put on it and I just keep thinking oh good I'm going to get that back I'm going to get a little bit back uh-huh [speaker002:] right right yeah that's true before you could at least deduct if you did pay any interest you could at least deduct that from your taxes [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] but now you can't do it and I know people that have racked up they they keep getting their limit extended because they keep exceeding it [speaker001:] I I can't see that [speaker002:] and then and all they can do is is pay the minimum balance or not that you know [speaker001:] and when they do that all they're doing is paying the interest on it they're not even paying the principal [speaker002:] exactly oh nope they're not even touching it [speaker001:] I I uh when when I get to people like that I wish I think the company should just say uh we're not giving you any more until you pay this off [speaker002:] I know [speaker001:] it don't I realize that the company wants you to use it you know and extend it all the time they're making more money off you [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] but I think they should have the the consumer the most interest you know [speaker002:] yeah it's true though because then all they end up doing is spending more of their time making collection calls [speaker001:] it's like they're addicted to using their credit card or something [speaker002:] oh yeah some people are they really are I mean if they have if they know they have more more on their limit [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] that I I might I think my brother-in-law is like that actually but um he if he has a hundred dollars left until he reaches his limit he'll spend it [speaker001:] oh my God [speaker002:] he can't because to him it's like money to him it's like a a loan almost in a sense and he can't bear to [speaker001:] I can't I can't do that [speaker002:] no I can't either [speaker001:] I have like I said I have to I have to know that I have that money before I'll spend it [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] so I I I don't [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] I don't know of course my mom lives very she was she had twelve kids and of course she she watched her money all the time and I that was one good thing I did get off of her [speaker002:] I know oh my God [speaker001:] uh I don't mind spending my money as long as it's a necessity [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] and if it's something I really really want but just to go out and start buying I'm not like that and that's something I got off of her and I'm [speaker002:] yeah

[speaker001:] how do you fill about drugs testing [speaker002:] will I'm sorry I have I had mixed fillings about it um at originally I thought all man I'm all for it totally then you know and then um [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] uh after I got to thinking about it after it's been around a while now I think well it's there's you know uh maybe it not quite should not be quite as a as wide spread as I as I use to think it should be you know maybe in certain depends on the job really you know [speaker001:] um-hum yeah [speaker002:] I happen to work uh in a medical profession and uh I work at a hospital and I think that's a good one that that it should be required at you know I myself wouldn't mind taking it [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] but I do also believe there are times when um you you can come out on the bad end of the stick you know uh because of it [speaker001:] well yeah I'm I'm more of the uh I'm kind of more against it than I am for it I I think that people I think people should more be they should be judge on you know their performance and I [speaker002:] yeah yeah sure [speaker001:] I guess it kind of seems to me that's it kind of a you know [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] the positive you the test type thing that you know people should pay attention to how there employees are you know the supervisors [speaker002:] that's right that's right and then [speaker001:] should keep an eye on them I I think that should be the the deciding factor in um-hum [speaker002:] yeah well I agree with that to I mean if you can if there is a reason you might think you need to check them maybe so but um if there doing good performance if I had a good record yeah that's a good point you know why why should you [speaker001:] and it also kind of I mean [speaker002:] you know [speaker001:] I don't know it it kind of frighten me in in one way because it it seems like it's um it's kind of a personal you know your [speaker002:] yeah sure [speaker001:] checking you know your body and everything and if if they can if they can you know do a do a drug test you know they can [speaker002:] that's right that's right and um really really where what's the next step you know yeah and uh cause myself I drink and uh you I'm I'm sure that you know when will they [speaker001:] you you know get get away with testing other things yeah exactly yeah I mean that's a drug as well it's just [speaker002:] that's true that's true and what's what's really the difference there alcohol is worst than a lot of drugs that they might uh consider illegal you know and um but they um uh [speaker001:] uh-huh that's true [speaker002:] I mean I know in alcohol I mean if you if you drink the night before and what if you have the test the next day maybe that will be the next step is alcohol testing you know breath analyzers or something [speaker001:] uh-huh well right now with a with air line pilots and stuff I I now my stepfather works for Northwest Airlines and they had a [speaker002:] yeah yeah [speaker001:] a thing a a while back and he knew one of the guys that got in trouble for I guess he had gone out the night before [speaker002:] uh-huh uh-huh [speaker001:] and um had had to much to drink and you are not suppose to drink within I think I think it's like twelve hours or twenty four I know there's a certain [speaker002:] uh-huh before they go a back on there jobs [speaker001:] yeah before before they get back on the job and and he had been been within that time period [speaker002:] yeah right yeah [speaker001:] and [speaker002:] yeah that's that's that's yeah I know it's [speaker001:] they got they came down on on him hard for that [speaker002:] I'm sure he did and he was probably perfectly capable you there was nothing at all that he couldn't have done you know as far as his job [speaker001:] yeah yeah it just change it vary so much from person person to person is it's a subjective type thing [speaker002:] you know that's true that's true yeah and uh I mean I never thought about it but you know you may drink and uh drink a hole lot one night and you may be going out going somewhere the next day like Sunday afternoon and you you be perfectly fine all over again and uh if they did a test on you you might not pass [speaker001:] you never know [speaker002:] you know just just from the night before and um you know that's that's sort like the drugs testing you know [speaker001:] um-hum and it it seems there there are a lot of profession now it seems like um you know am sure the president of the United States doesn't get drug tested but he's got a lot of responsibilities and [speaker002:] that's right yeah [speaker001:] uh as as seems like you know some things [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] if there are going to do it you know like I know a lot of government um jobs are [speaker002:] yeah that's that's true yeah that's true [speaker001:] require drug testing you know it seems like they should uh not [speaker002:] right I know what you are saying [speaker001:] be you know they should not be hypocritical about it [speaker002:] that's right if you know um if you know if they're going to do it just do it totally nation wide every job there is you know or or else you know just don't do it [speaker001:] they having such a big problem with the [speaker002:] I mean it makes good sense [speaker001:] the drug war anyway its [speaker002:] yeah really I mean that's where the real problem is I mean um but where I work uh I think they have talked about it you know and uh but nothing like that has come up at all you know [speaker001:] yeah uh-huh am surprise they they don't work I work for uh Georgia Tech Research Institute I'm a student employee and they have got a [speaker002:] yeah uh-huh [speaker001:] you know we work on a lot of government project and stuff but um but you know some of them require [speaker002:] yeah yeah [speaker001:] I mean some people are working with some kind of classified information but non of that I think [speaker002:] right right [speaker001:] but uh they don't require any type of testing there and I remember I was in uh [speaker002:] yeah yeah [speaker001:] I was in the Air Force for uh a little while and they had a random type thing going [speaker002:] yeah yeah uh-huh uh-huh [speaker001:] so every I mean every I mean I'm a rejoining basic trainer or [speaker002:] right right [speaker001:] just one mourning like every one from you know this flight or what every would be tested [speaker002:] sure sure [speaker001:] it's kind of a random thing [speaker002:] right right [speaker001:] but then I know of some other jobs

[speaker001:] So, who's your favorite team? [speaker002:] My favorite team is the Pittsburgh Steelers. [speaker001:] Pittsburgh? [speaker002:] You bet. [speaker001:] I used to be a big Pittsburgh fan when I was little. [speaker002:] Well, I, uh, when John Stallworth played he was from my hometown in Alabama, [speaker001:] Oh, really? [speaker002:] so I kind of grabbed on to that team, [speaker001:] Huh. That's pretty nice. [speaker002:] way back when. [speaker001:] Yeah, that's good. I, I used to watch them a lot when they were playing the big iron curtain, [speaker002:] That's right. [speaker001:] or steel curtain. [speaker002:] How about your favorite team? [speaker001:] Huh. Well, last year it was Buffalo and I, I still try to keep up with Buffalo because they just, they just impressed me as being so efficient and they never score. They never blow out their opponents. They just score just enough points, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] and that really impressed me. But then down here I li-, is pretty close to New Orleans and I've been keeping up with the Saints a lot. [speaker002:] Well, they are exciting, aren't they? [speaker001:] Yeah, the Saints are starting to impress me this year, you know, a lot. [speaker002:] Boy, they are, they are just a fun team to watch. [speaker001:] This, it, they are really. Did you see the game Sunday night or, [speaker002:] Uh, [speaker001:] Sunday afternoon? [speaker002:] no, I didn't. [speaker001:] It was funny. There were, they ha-, uh, a fireworks display at halftime. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] Oh, yeah? [speaker001:] Yeah, and some paper or something in the Super Dome up in the roof caught [LAUGHTER] on fire. [speaker002:] Oh, you're kidding [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] So, they had to stop the game in lieu of the third quarter [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] Oh, my gos-, [speaker001:] and put out this fire. Those big piece of something came flaming, falling out of the roof and landed on the field so there's this big fire on the field and they were dumping the Gatorade bucket and everything. [speaker002:] Oh, I can't believe that. [speaker001:] It was funn-, I mean, you just really can't tell what's going to happen. [speaker002:] That's hilarious. [speaker001:] I know. It's like about two weeks ago I was watching the Saints. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] And Morton Anderson kicked a sixty yard field goal. [speaker002:] Oh. [speaker001:] And it, it was beautiful, right down the middle. [speaker002:] Oh, boy. He is tough, he has [speaker001:] He is. [speaker002:] an incredible leg. [speaker001:] Yes. [speaker002:] Well, do you think they're, they're going to be able to make it this year, [speaker001:] Uh I s-, [speaker002:] past the first playoff game? [speaker001:] I sure hope so. I'm not sure, I'm not sure who they play. Right now I've got it narrowed down to the top four teams. [speaker002:] Who's that? [speaker001:] It's pretty much going between Washington. They are undefeated. [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] And, uh, Buffalo, New Orleans, and Chicago because Chicago has only lost twice and one of those was to Buffalo. And they beat the Saints. Their only time they lost. [speaker002:] What do you think about, uh, Houston? [speaker001:] Houston. I saw Houston play this summer in Memphis. [speaker002:] Oh, yeah? [speaker001:] Yeah. Uh, from what I saw they were playing, when I was at the game we sat right on the front row, [speaker002:] Huh. [speaker001:] right behind the Houston Oilers, and from what I saw the game Houston, Houston impressed me a lot. [speaker002:] Huh. [speaker001:] But my brother watched it on T V and said that Warren Moon was just having an off night, and if that was an off night I'd hate to see when he's on a good night. [speaker002:] Oh, yeah, he's [speaker001:] He's, [speaker002:] he definitely, uh, is one of the best I think. [speaker001:] Yeah, the, their, their backfield is really impressive. Haywood Jeffreys and Drew Hill [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] and Allen, they really impress me. [speaker002:] Well, they squeaked out a game on Sunday. [speaker001:] That's right. Who, who did they play? [speaker002:] They played Dallas. [speaker001:] Dallas, that's right, [speaker002:] They won, [speaker001:] all because, [speaker002:] in overtime. [speaker001:] That's right. I remember that now. [speaker002:] So that was, I, I watched that game and, uh, that was, uh, [speaker001:] Do you have a favorite between those two? [speaker002:] Well, because I'm right here in Dallas I, I kind of pull for Dallas. [speaker001:] Really? [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Yeah. Well, also Houston is, uh, in Pittsburgh's division so, [speaker001:] Well, that's true. [speaker002:] I'll almost always root against them. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] I hate to say it but I hate Dallas [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] That's okay [LAUGHTER]. Well I, you know, I, I was never really a big Dallas fan [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] until we moved here and they just kind of grew on me. [speaker001:] Yeah, I imagine. That's the way, I've never been a big Saints fan until the last year or two and they, they've actually started doing something. [speaker002:] Yeah. Yeah. [speaker001:] So, I've actually pl-, paid attention to them. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] Well [breathing], [speaker001:] Well, do you know anything about the expansion teams they're thinking about bringing in? [speaker002:] To tell you the truth I haven't paid too much attention to that. [speaker001:] Really? [speaker002:] Um, what cities are they looking at? [speaker001:] Uh, right now I think this Memphis, they're, they're trying to get the teams. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] And that's, that's where I was when I saw, uh, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] Houston play. Saint Louis is trying to get a team. Uh, Baltimore is trying to get a team, and there's some other city. I'm wanting to say Raleigh Durham but I'm not sure. [speaker002:] You know, I think you are right. I think it is Raleigh. [speaker001:] Think so? [speaker002:] I think I remember hearing that. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. Because I know they've got a football team but I think it might be them. [speaker002:] That would be fun. I'd like to see some more teams get in. [speaker001:] I would, definitely. I think they are supposed to put two in by either next year or the year after. And right now I think Memphis and, it's Memphis and I think Baltimore have a really good shot at it. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] Because I know Saint Louis is much bigger than Memphis and when I went up there they were saying that Memphis sold more tickets than Saint Louis did. [speaker002:] Oh, really? [speaker001:] Yeah. It's like the Liberty Bowl or Liberty Stadium in Memphis holds about sixty-two,

[speaker001:] okay what do do you do artistic painting [speaker002:] um I do tole painting [speaker001:] oh you do [speaker002:] uh-huh I really love the tole painting um I haven't done any of the oil or watercolor I would like to learn that some day but right now my passion is tole painting uh-huh [speaker001:] do you do a lot of it yeah I I took one class about I guess three or four years ago and I've done a little um but it takes a lot of time [speaker002:] oh it does it is real time consuming and [speaker001:] do do you sell your projects [speaker002:] uh mostly I have just given them away as gifts um [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] I've done uh perpetual calendars and cookie jar lids and oh on and on you know just things like that but [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] um I would eventually like to make enough to sell and quit my job [speaker001:] where do you work at [speaker002:] I just work at Stop and Shop out there in in Ogden so [speaker001:] oh now do you ever send any of your stuff to the boutique [speaker002:] no I've wanted to do that uh but just haven't just haven't mass produced enough to do that [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] so I have five children of my own so it's [speaker001:] that keeps you busy [speaker002:] they they keep me busy and tole painting's just a you know something I do in my spare time so [speaker001:] uh-huh have you tried any of the well do you cut out your own projects [speaker002:] yes uh-huh I have my own saws and so I really enjoy doing that [speaker001:] huh do you um ever spray your projects with uh I mean a base coat first or do you brush it all on [speaker002:] I brush it on yeah I haven't tried a a spray varnish I use just a wood sealer [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] and [speaker001:] I just bought a spray gun one of those airless um not airless high volume low pressure spray guns [speaker002:] oh uh-huh [speaker001:] and I do a lot of wood working and that's what I bought it for [speaker002:] do you oh [speaker001:] but I haven't used it yet [speaker002:] oh well that's that probably give you a smoother finish wouldn't it oh now what type of wood working do you do [speaker001:] yeah yeah um fine uh furniture type stuff yeah [speaker002:] oh do you [speaker001:] that's why I brought bought the sprayer is to finish my projects that's my worst [speaker002:] oh [speaker001:] worst part of my wood working I get so sick of making it [speaker002:] oh but it's hard to finish it huh [speaker001:] yeah but spraying does put on a nicer finish [speaker002:] oh well that is interesting so what kind of equipment do you have [speaker001:] for wood working um let me see table saw scroll saw band saw lathe routers and that's about it [speaker002:] uh-huh boy it sounds like you're really into it that is nice [speaker001:] yeah it is [speaker002:] yeah I I just have a scroll saw and a jig saw and I am really anxious to get a band saw and a router [speaker001:] yeah the band saw's really nice I have an Inca I don't know if you've ever heard of those [speaker002:] oh [speaker001:] but yeah it's nice to have the right equipment [speaker002:] yeah that is that makes it easier doesn't it well have you sold any of your furniture or [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] just [speaker001:] um not mostly I do like you do give it away as gifts [speaker002:] uh-huh oh [speaker001:] uh making my own furniture [speaker002:] well oh well that's interesting do you uh did you take classes to learn how to do that [speaker001:] um just in junior high and then I just kept on through high school and then bought my own equipment [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] kept up with that [speaker002:] oh so yours is mostly just a hobby too then oh well that's interesting oh I would I really would love to go take a class in wood working and learn how to [speaker001:] yeah yeah [speaker002:] I don't know if I necessarily wanna do furniture but mostly uh just do more uh-huh the wood working [speaker001:] like the shelves and for your tole painting [speaker002:] uh yeah yeah so it's fun [speaker001:] good well I guess I'll let you go now [speaker002:] well they come on we're supposed to talk until they come on and tell us yeah well it's it has been really fun I've enjoyed this um [speaker001:] oh they do oh okay so this is my first one you're probably a veteran at this [speaker002:] like I say I've made a couple of calls to Texas and just talked to all different kinds of people so I think you'll enjoy doing it it's fun [speaker001:] uh-huh yeah sounds fun where do you buy your tole painting paints at around here [speaker002:] um you know there's a shop in Roy that I really love um and it's there by the Copper Mill restaurant used to be the Hayloft [speaker001:] oh I'm not familiar well we live in Roy but we haven't is it on nineteen hundred [speaker002:] uh-huh um let's see I'm trying to think of the name [speaker001:] I know where fifty six hundred south is [speaker002:] uh I don't not right off [speaker001:] is that Ben Franklin then [speaker002:] Ben Franklin okay

[speaker001:] some of the TV shows that uh I I like are usually something that shows me something about a profession that I don't necessarily know how it operates and one of the earliest shows that uh taught me something was the old Bewitched shows when I was growing up I remember thinking so that's how the advertising game is played that's how they developed these things that's where commercials come from and I really didn't uh before that I think that was the very first show that I ever realized that on and then [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] oh a little bit later I don't particularly like LA Law as a series but I do like some of the insights not so much into the legal profession but into the the fact that some of the well for instance some of the deals that are made by the DA you know you read about some of these things and it sounds really bad well you don't know what's gone on before [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] um they had one case where uh the DA had been injured she had been hurt and you know was a little bit fearful of of making friends uh any enemies at the moment [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] so uh just little things like that makes well there's a human behind this little story you know that that was was written up in the paper that DA cuts a bad deal [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] as well as some of the the arguments on you know a guy gets arrested for DWI well depending upon what the guy says he's going to say in court regardless of the truth what the guy says he's going to say is you know is fifteen minutes later before they gave me the test and all these kinds of things and you could probably get away you know get off on it so they just plea bargained it out and is just done with it [speaker002:] sure [speaker001:] oh I I those little things I guess I have to be reminded that there're there're so many details that just don't get out that you can't uh can't take the reported word for some of these things so I guess I like shows that that show me something some insights into other parts of of living that I don't always get exposed to how about yourself [speaker002:] right I I don't know I've I like tend to like a lot of the old uh older TV shows like uh for instance there there's I love watching old Twilight Zones and uh they've they've been there's a station station here that runs mostly syndicated things and that's one thing I like to catch on late at night is the old Twilight Zones but uh for TV that's out right now I I the shows I like to see for one reason or another that I've been catching um Matlock and Tuesday nights for some some are I guess are my TV night and I like to see uh Matlock and then In the Heat of the Night uh [speaker001:] uh-hum [speaker002:] are two shows that that I like to see after seeing the the television show In the Heat of the Night I wanted I haven't never seen the movie but uh I think I'd like to check out that movie sometime it's uh [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] I don't know it's just kind of interesting they have great characters in that uh TV show and it's interesting from I just saw the pilot to it oh a week or two ago and it was a special two hour thing but it was the first like like I said a pilot and uh [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] the characters in it were the white police officers when the black the black guy from Philadelphia went down there were much more bigoted and more the villains in that episode and now over the time in the television show they're all very much uh uh not not bigoted or very more more you know more in the twentieth century now let's say or or very unbigoted and they even have added uh this uh other [speaker001:] right right [speaker002:] black police officer to the cast so it's interesting how they kind of got away from the original I guess the premise of the movie as well was the problems that that uh he had with the police officers and now it's more concentrated on the problems they have in the small town in the south and it it's kind of interesting because it's supposed to be this little tiny town in down in [speaker001:] hum [speaker002:] uh down south but uh I live in this little teeny town up here in upstate New York and it's not too much different so people got a lot to learn everywhere [speaker001:] huh that's interesting yeah yeah I I've seen Heat of the Night through off and on through out it's uh television career as it were and I I wonder if uh if they did that intentionally or if they just had uh [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] whether they decided to do away with the the racial problem as the main thrust of it or whether they were going to show that eventually that would die down somewhat that um [speaker002:] right I I don't know either I don't [speaker001:] quite possible that they wanted it to become more of the subtle problems that it is today as opposed to the the hitting over the head type problems that it was then [speaker002:] right right [speaker001:] and uh they they have uh uh pretty good bunch of actors and well acted parts I mean you can take a good actor and put him in a bad part and it doesn't do any good but uh they they found a good combination of roles and and actors and actresses on that show and it's a pretty good one [speaker002:] sure it's a lot different seeing Carroll O'Connor in that role than uh Archie Bunker it's like [speaker001:] yeah that's true that's true [speaker002:] and maybe a little more versatile than anybody ever gave him credit for [speaker001:] didn't get the right [speaker002:] but uh uh [speaker001:] yeah there're there're just starting to rerun those uh All in the Family down here on a particular on a major station and it's uh I never did like it particularly and I've watched a couple of them off and on uh just to get a feel for what what was being said then but it uh the I I don't know it's it's it's a pretty simplistic deal and I mean they they pound whatever message they're going to say over and over and that's about the end of it so [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] I don't know if I would have liked it when it was current and and being discussed maybe it would have been a little better but uh [speaker002:] course the this is The Heat of the Night isn't it [speaker001:] no the uh the All in the Family reruns that are showing showing now [speaker002:] oh oh the All in the Ha Family right right right [speaker001:] they they really take whatever point they're wanting to make they they reiterate it over and over you know it's as if the the intelligence level of the people that watch this or something other they handle over a wide you know range of [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] of uh topics but uh the uh I don't know maybe it would have been better the first time through when it was more [speaker002:] sure [speaker001:] uh when the public was talking about it you know sit around the table and talk about the this that and the other but some of the issues seemed a little out dated but of course that's what reruns are for and [speaker002:] right when is relevant or yeah well you've got old Meathead there and the rest of the gang at the where Meathead and and Sally Sally Struthers there with the um the the liberals the the supposedly correct view at the time and then uh the Archie Bunker with his uh antiquated uh the rednecked uh [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] ideas I don't know it the old meets new head on and whatever but now it's all old so [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] you could have another one you could have a new TV show with uh Rob Reiner and Sally Struthers in with their kids moving in and uh [speaker001:] right going another generation's problems [speaker002:] yeah and have them be uh oh I don't even know yuppies are passe now I'm not even sure what uh [speaker001:] what to latch on to [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] I don't know well I hear one of my kiddos coming in the door so I'll wind this one up and go see what they need [speaker002:] okay well it was nice talking to you [speaker001:] maybe we'll cross paths again later [speaker002:] all right bye-bye [speaker001:] um bye

[speaker001:] yeah I guess uh uh it's an easy one for me I think that's uh there's something seriously wrong yeah [speaker002:] what is it that you are you know particularly upset about [speaker001:] uh I guess uh I think they've lost their compass and uh I'm not sure they know exactly what uh uh public education supposed to be for anymore but uh I voted with my feet and uh my kids go to parochial school [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] so um [speaker002:] what do you feel that your kids are getting in the parochial schools that they wouldn't get in uh the public school system [speaker001:] well one hundred percent of the uh customers care that's one thing everybody cares about the education the kids are getting and um they uh take an active relatively active part which uh I mean if you're uh sending two thousand dollars that way every year you uh watch what goes on and you um um pay attention and participate and and you can influence the way things are [speaker002:] so you're saying that the taxpayer who also is really paying through the pocket book for the education of the child may not be quite so conscious of the fact that they are paying the tuition for that child in the form of uh real estate or other taxes and and consequently they're not so motivated to get involved to make sure things happen the way they'd like to see them happen [speaker001:] yeah the immediacy just isn't there and um uh I also think that one one of the problems and actually I don't think this I think this is a cultural problem [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] the uh problem with public education is really uh really a problem with the culture and I guess my evidence for that is the school districts in places like California for example where only a minority of the taxpayers have children in school and you can't get a tax levy passed um people are um reluctant to pass uh school tax levies even uh when the money is needed or would be well spent because it's uh they don't have kids in the schools [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] I think that's a a loss of civic virtue and a loss of um uh the cultural attitude that we used to have that education was first even if it wasn't our kids I think that's uh that's the principal problem is that uh people no longer see it as uh as their problem and as an immediate problem [speaker002:] right it troubles me too that that the priority seems to be with my particular purse strings rather than the public good and by definition for some of us at least the public good includes having an educated populace I mean the idea uh that uh you can make a sound judgment with respect to small votes in in the at the local level or bigger votes at the national level uh [speaker001:] right yeah [speaker002:] uh it means that you've got to be informed and you've got to have a certain level of education to do the reading and the critical thinking involved to come up with a decision [speaker001:] yeah you know I I believe that the original idea of public education in the United States which I guess was controversial at the time of the constitution um you know it barely made it I think it was added afterwards I think the real the principal reason was uh education for civic participation the idea was that everybody should have an education so that they'd be a better voter [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] and you couldn't pull the wool over their eyes [speaker002:] right it has taken on a more more more profound and you'd think we'd notice it economic uh thrust yeah [speaker001:] well that's exactly what I was going to say now there seem to be really three reasons for education one is education for civic duty one is education for economic reasons and one is education for civilization I mean and I I think that one is [speaker002:] well I'm glad that you added that one yeah I think that one's significant [speaker001:] that that's what I used to think education was all about when I was a college professor and then I quit and got disabused of that notion but um the um uh now the only thing people seem to agree on is that education is um an economic enterprise to um train people for jobs and um I'm not sure that people in the education establishment really know what their purpose is and I'm really sad to say this I never thought I would have but I really think that uh the educational establishment has become part of the problem and uh that's why I guess I'm sort of reluctantly uh in favor of these uh choice programs [speaker002:] right well I I agree agree with everything that you've said so far and the only thing I'd wanna add is that I'm a little more in contact I think with public school teachers than perhaps you are uh except as a parent of your child and the sense sense that I get from public school teachers that I know is that they are very conscious of what they feel they should be doing and they are the three things that you mentioned but they find that they are also being asked to do a bunch of other stuff which they think is only tangentially related like consumer education [speaker001:] right that's what

[speaker001:] I uh try to stay away from cars as much as possible in terms of repair actually uh that is really a sore spot with me I I think perhaps the automotive industry is improving but uh like ten years ago um the reliability of automobiles at least US automobiles was pretty dismal and not only that but the uh repair capability of uh service departments and dealerships was equally dismal and uh it seemed that the only way I could reliably take care of my car was to repair it myself which is not my cup of tea [speaker002:] um-hum yeah [speaker001:] but uh I [speaker002:] so do you have a car [speaker001:] pardon [speaker002:] do you have a car [speaker001:] well at that time actually I had a Volkswagen Rabbit [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] and um it was it it was a real lemon uh subsequently I got a uh Buick Century and it wasn't as bad [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] but uh last year I bought a Honda Accord and I take it in once every seventy five hundred miles for its periodic maintenance and that is it and it's wonderful and [speaker002:] yeah we used to have a Honda Accord and they're good they're really good cars every time I get taken to an auto repair place you know every time I go I get taken bad you know woman goes in and they go all right we got a sucker [speaker001:] hm [speaker002:] let's get how see how much money we can get out of her you know that's what happens every time um so [speaker001:] hm hm so what do you what do you have [speaker002:] I have a Pontiac six thousand [speaker001:] all the more reason to uh have a a Honda [speaker002:] yep but our Honda just got old and just wore out it was eleven let's see eleven years old and it just just out of it so [speaker001:] so so you bought a Pontiac [speaker002:] no uh-huh my husband uh um ex-husband's this this just happened couple of weeks ago he's my ex-husband but just a few months ago when he was my husband um his father gave us this car and everything is wrong with it I mean the power steering fluid leaks the oil leaks the brake fluid leaks you know [speaker001:] now this what how old is the car [speaker002:] um eighty seven and he just doesn't take care of things and but I was awarded the car so there is a man in my church that is a mechanic and I can trust him [speaker001:] hm [speaker002:] so he's trying to get you know things fixed on it but it's just you know leak leak leak everywhere but um [speaker001:] hm [speaker002:] you know I hate to go into a a repair place because they'll tell me something's wrong with it and it's not you know and charge me twice as much the last time I took it into a repair shop the man told me I needed a master cylinder so I said okay and he charged me a hundred and thirty something dollars and then um about a month later a man was looking at my car and he asked me you know not a man not a repair man but just a friend and I was telling him that I just had a new master cylinder put on and he said looked at and he said that's not a new master cylinder [speaker001:] hm [speaker002:] and I didn't even know what one was and um he showed it to me and it was old rusty just awful it was no more new than nothing [speaker001:] so apparently it was the same one that was on there [speaker002:] oh more than likely [speaker001:] oh we just uh refilled refilled uh probably filled the the brake fluid up and that was it [speaker002:] that was it probably it was very I was so irritated and that's happened to me more than once or twice just just just about every time I've went in somewhere [speaker001:] so what's the solution to that I guess find a reputable service [speaker002:] and and you just I can't hardly find one you know [speaker001:] hm [speaker002:] the guy that's doing most of my my car now um goes to my church and that's the only reason you know I go to him [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] because I know him and I know he will tell me the truth because he doesn't even charge me for for doing it so he's not gonna you know [speaker001:] hm [speaker002:] take me yeah I just pay for the parts and he does it so [speaker001:] right well that's wonderful [speaker002:] yeah yeah I am so [speaker001:] you're lucky [speaker002:] I don't know I don't know what the solution to that is because the place where you buy your car they're usually the worst one of all we took our Honda to the Honda dealership and they ended up telling us we needed a brand new engine for our car [speaker001:] oh really [speaker002:] yeah and so idiots as we were neither one of us knew much about cars we you know they told us we just had to have one and we bought one we didn't no more need no new engine give me a break you know so it was it was not good [speaker001:] hm [speaker002:] and um

[speaker001:] so uh have you got any repairs done by auto shops on your car or do you do maintenance work or what [speaker002:] I uh try to do what I can and uh we have two vehicles uh and uh on the Honda which is the older vehicle [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] I try to do as much as I can on that on our newer one uh uh mini vans it's all electronic and computers and everything in it [speaker001:] still still under warrantee right [speaker002:] yeah uh well some things are some things aren't you know [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] not everything's covered by warrantee I don't try to mess with that at all I mean I I can change the oil and [speaker001:] do you do any uh body work on the Honda [speaker002:] uh no uh no no I do have a place that's rusting I need to get something on it [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] put some paint on it or something to stop the rust like scrape it and paint it right right right I know if you don't get the rust off that's there already that it's just going [speaker001:] yeah scrape it and paint it put primer on it then paint it don't put paint over else it'll just continue rusting under it yeah [speaker002:] continue on but yeah I was sitting here looking at my Honda manual when I got the call [speaker001:] I got the so you you're ready to talk about it [speaker002:] yeah yeah right the uh [speaker001:] do you so you change like you change your own oil and oil filters [speaker002:] yeah yeah I do my own brake brake work on the Honda I just [speaker001:] uh I mean I [speaker002:] I just finished working on the brakes [speaker001:] yeah I I know where you're coming from because I do the I do the minor things to my car [speaker002:] right right not the right the things I know how to do I I'm not an expert I don't claim to be [speaker001:] uh but I don't right exactly yeah I just do what I can I don't really you know I don't it's like the simple things changing the oil checking the fluids you know rotating tires [speaker002:] hum right [speaker001:] things like that that you don't need heavy equipment for [speaker002:] right seems anymore you need special tools to do a lot of jobs you know and and [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] I'm afraid I'll get something take it taken apart and not remember how to get it back together and then I'd be in big trouble [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] I do know a couple good shade tree mechanics and I call them once in a while for advice and once in a while for advice and once in a while they'll come over and say oh this is how you do it you know and I try to learn [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] but I think a lot of people learn how to do maintenance from whether their father did it you know my didn't do much at all and didn't know much about cars and [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] as a result I really didn't have that much interest to learn how to maintain fix and maintain cars [speaker001:] right right [speaker002:] so I didn't learn much growing up and I just after I we bought the cars you know and things got so expensive to take them someplace all the time [speaker001:] yeah because it [speaker002:] that I decided that I better start learning you know [speaker001:] yeah because things go wrong and you don't know what the hell's going on and you don't you don't know where to start [speaker002:] right that's right [speaker001:] and that's where it costs money [speaker002:] well yeah that's that's when I call some friends or something or sometimes I just take it to a place you know and they'll tell me what's wrong and I'll say oh it'll be this much money and I'll say oh well I'm going to think about that that sounds like too much [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] right now and so you know I got to think about that so they'll put it back together I'll take it home and then I'll fix it myself sometimes they charge you you know just to diagnose the problem [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] some places do some don't right just depends you know how long how long it takes them to figure it out if they can just tell right away [speaker001:] those are electronical diagnostics [speaker002:] by just listening to it and then they're usually going to charge you you know [speaker001:] yeah I have a a fuel injected engine so I don't do anything to the engine you know it's like [speaker002:] uh-huh yeah right they're pretty tricky [speaker001:] I don't I don't want to mess with it because since I don't know exactly all the ratios you know and everything that all the proportions the fuel and air and compression and all that stuff that needs to be precise and it's controlled by computer I figure I won't mess with that [speaker002:] uh-huh right that's how I figure on those things it's just not worth the worth it [speaker001:] but I mean I play with everything else that you know that's not too serious you know you can bend it one way and you bend it right back or you know turn it [speaker002:] right right [speaker001:] just as long as as like you were saying it's not too hard to take apart and put back together I'll try it [speaker002:] uh-huh right now that we have two cars I'm not as scared to play with play around because we always have the other car seems like I before I would get the car all apart and realize I needed a part you know and I'm calling all the neighbors and stuff trying to get them to give me a ride down to get my part you know because I don't have another part so now that we have two cars I'm less leery about just going for it [speaker001:] have you had any body work done on your car [speaker002:] um no no I haven't had any problem [speaker001:] that stuff is expensive [speaker002:] yeah I know I had an estimate for that little rust spot and they wanted like three hundred bucks [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] I said forget it I can live with it you know if the car's [speaker001:] but [speaker002:] ten years old now you know [speaker001:] yeah I went I went uh I got in a wreck recently and uh well I didn't do much damage to my car but I did some pretty heavy duty damage to the other car I have a plastic bumper [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] and I happened to hit the rim of the tire [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] it made like a little semicircular incision on my plastic bumper [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] right and and and kind of put little fissures on the on the paint of the bumper because it's plastic so when it bent you know when the plastic bent it kind of cracked [speaker002:] on your plastic bumper uh-huh [speaker001:] to to change that bumper covering of the plastic cover [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] was going to run me five hundred bucks [speaker002:] uh-huh whoa that's on the other car or your car [speaker001:] on my car [speaker002:] is that right [speaker001:] that just to change the cover you know because do just had to get the that whole cover my my car's a Beretta they had a big big bumper they got on there big white bumper that covers like the whole bottom front of the car that that whole thing you know to be replaced and repainted would cost five hundred dollars [speaker002:] uh-huh right [speaker001:] and I got this guy to uh to this this uh company I don't know if you ever heard of Maaco Auto Body Shop [speaker002:] yeah I've heard of them [speaker001:] I got the I talked to the owner and he said that the best thing to do if I wanted to save money was uh [speaker002:] the chain [speaker001:] to just go ahead and since there was no major damage he could just kind of like fill in the little ridges where the rim hit with some like bond or something and then paint over it and it would look just like new for only two hundred bucks so I did that instead [speaker002:] right uh-huh [speaker001:] but and it you can't tell you can't tell the difference you know it just looks like a brand new bumper [speaker002:] is that right uh-huh [speaker001:] and it hey I saved three hundred bucks [speaker002:] yeah well you're a student right [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] so that's important [speaker001:] very important [speaker002:] yeah it seems anymore for cars or they want want so much to work on a car we've had our car in the dealer or our van and they want they charge like forty five dollars an hour labor [speaker001:] yeah I think that's ridiculous isn't it [speaker002:] golly they're yeah I I [speaker001:] forty five dollars I mean people people get out of college and work for less than that [speaker002:] right well the mechanic doesn't see that you know it's the owner or the dealer who sees the big bucks [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] mechanic probably gets about twenty dollars an hour yeah the thing about automobiles they're so unpredictable too you know they're hard to hard to plan ahead for for things [speaker001:] yeah like that commercial that you plan for uh the car new car second garage but you didn't plan on breaking down [speaker002:] yeah uh-huh [speaker001:] ever see that commercial [speaker002:] right no I haven't seen that one [speaker001:] it's it's pretty good it's I think it's um a bank commercial or something like that and uh it just kind of flashes out these uh partial sentences like you planned on and it says a new garage second car [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] and then all a sudden the music in the background changes and it says but you didn't plan on it breaking down [speaker002:] that's true that's true I mean it's hard to you know it's hard to say oh I should set aside this much money for repairs on cars because you never know it could cost you nothing or it could cost you three times as much [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] it's hard to plan for those things and when you need to have it fixed you know a lot of times you can't just take it all over town if it uh you know [speaker001:] yeah that's true [speaker002:] sometime you can but on some things it's you're just stuck and you got to have it towed somewhere or something you just got to got to got to got to make a quick decision I don't know I don't trust a lot of people who work on your cars too I know this one guy that works for dealerships as a at dealerships they replace things they don't fix [speaker001:] that's that's uh that's one thing about dealerships is you don't I don't think you get the real quality work at dealerships because they have to work with so many cars it just kind of [speaker002:] so they'd just rather replace something and charge you for the new part rather than just you know fixing the part [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] and the part could be probably fixed you know for a third of the price of of a new one but they that's dealers don't do that [speaker001:] yeah they want as much money as they can [speaker002:] oh sure sure they do and then they take your old part and sell it to some reconditioning house and make money off of that too [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] you know so anyway well we got to got to have cars in this society not like uh Europe and Japan and some other countries where they have good enough public transportation where you can just [speaker001:] yeah but I think [speaker002:] get anywhere you need to go anytime you need to get there [speaker001:] yeah I think uh I think public transportation will move up though in the future I mean I think we pretty much phased out the bus [speaker002:] well I hope so right [speaker001:] but I think maybe uh you know um like subways you know public transportation such as subways and monorails will probably come in [speaker002:] uh-huh right right but it it's going to be a while I think but [speaker001:] well yeah I mean not nothing like in the next ten years but more like in the next fifty to a hundred [speaker002:] if I had a car uh the a bus

[speaker001:] okay did you want me to go ahead [speaker002:] I'll let you go ahead and start yeah [speaker001:] okay well one thing I I I guess both of us have very much aware of the equality uh it seems like women are uh just starting to really get some kind of equality not only in uh jobs but in the home where husbands are starting to help out a lot more than they ever did um it's not uncommon to see men doing dishes making supper or taking care of the kids versus um the generation of my parents and my great grandmother which uh they did everything they went to work and they took care of the family so [speaker002:] you know I think that's changed just in the last generation just in the last little while because I know my father-in-law doesn't do that much of that [speaker001:] exactly exactly yeah [speaker002:] kind of stuff but my husband is wonderful [speaker001:] yeah that's the way my husband is too I mean it it doesn't uh doesn't bother him at all to do the dishes it doesn't bother him him at all to do the laundry versus uh men from [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] way back there is that well if you did that you were henpecked or whatever but [speaker002:] yeah yeah there still some that aren't cooperating but [speaker001:] men are starting yeah those are very few I think those men don't last very long in relationships because they think women know what they want [speaker002:] they're not accepting that anymore yeah [speaker001:] right exactly and it's it's hard enough to be a woman out there trying to do everything uh you know and then kind of realize hey there's just no way that we can be happy trying to do it all so it's it's kind of a a neat thing to see as far as equality in the households and I think that's even gonna get better even you know even more so I think it's just gonna be where men will do as much cleaning as women do [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] and that it won't be your job description instead of your role definition is this it will be uh hopefully for my daughter who I instill into it doesn't matter if you wanna drive a truck honey or if it doesn't matter if you want to be a nurse it doesn't matter if you want to be uh the President or it doesn't matter if you want to be a lawyer or a doctor it doesn't matter it's what you want to be so I have always instilled into her and I think mothers um are doing a really good job in raising their daughters to say hey you don't have to stay with nursing you don't have to be a secretary you don't have to be you can be whatever you want to be and whether it be a welder a trucker or whatever [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] as long as you uh go to school for it and get the education so [speaker002:] yeah well I feel like um to an extent that is really important you know that that um it is important for women who need to work uh or are in a position that they want to [speaker001:] um-hum um-hum if they want to right [speaker002:] that they can do that um but I also think it is important for them to be with the children [speaker001:] um-hum I do too you know there's a certain part of me [speaker002:] I I think there there are some things that women just are designed to do better than men and there are some things that men are designed to do better than women I don't think it should ever be totally equal [speaker001:] uh-huh yeah yeah [speaker002:] you know that's not uh we're not made like that that's right [speaker001:] well emotionally I think uh women do a little bit uh I I think that's the gap is coming closer as um what I've learned in uh just just being out there it seems that men are now starting to get into groups called men's gatherings and they get together and they talk about issues of marriage talk about manhood talk about what they didn't have with their fathers [speaker002:] hm [speaker001:] are expressing more emotions learning what emotions are it may be in the future that men you know some men may be better parent or mothers than mothers themselves um [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] I I know of some mothers that uh I guess I'd rather be with the father because the father is maybe more understanding more um low keyed more apt to be a better father than some mothers that I have seen that have been raised you know to develop whatever skills that they have and some of the men are developing uh very good too so it may come down to where it's [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] it's individual basis where everybody's treated as an individual and not by [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] sex if you wanna stay home and take care of the kids honey that's fine I will go out and make the uh take care of the uh money making and it it wouldn't matter if it's a woman or a man saying that [speaker002:] one of the frustrations that I have with the way things have developed is that [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] and for some it's not a problem but there's more and more it's difficult for a family to make a living on one [speaker001:] on one income um-hum [speaker002:] income it can be done but you make sacrifices you know and and it's um [speaker001:] yeah yeah that kind of like what uh my husband and myself are doing right now my daughter's three even though at this current time she's ready to get involved with she's an only child I don't know if you've only got one [speaker002:] yeah

[speaker001:] okay we're supposed to talk about vacations [speaker002:] right so um well uh what kind of vacations do you like [speaker001:] well uh I haven't been to many places but I have a opportunity to go to uh Paris France um with um with my friend in April she is her um her family you know lives there and she's only been there once her grandmother lives there so I'm hoping to go I'm praying I get to go um [speaker002:] um-hum oh that great [speaker001:] yeah it's that will be probably the most exciting place I'll ever get to go [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] have you ever been to um like New Mexico [speaker002:] um no actually [speaker001:] oh [speaker002:] why have you [speaker001:] I was just curious I was just wondering what it was like [speaker002:] oh okay no um no I have been to Europe once and to Haiti and um yeah [speaker001:] Tahiti Tahiti huh [speaker002:] no no Haiti [speaker001:] oh Haiti [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] where's that [speaker002:] it's um well it's in the Caribbean and it's the western half of an island with the eastern half that's the Dominican Republic [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] and I was down there with a program from the college that I went to where we would just spend like three months in a foreign country most of them third world countries [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] and study the language and then do a little service project [speaker001:] hm [speaker002:] so yeah that turned out to be a really good experience for me [speaker001:] so what did you do when you were in Europe [speaker002:] um well see I went there when I was in high school actually and I mostly went to Germany and visited some friends of my family [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] and um hung out with them worked a bit on one of their farms and I also went to a youth camp [speaker001:] what did you do on the farm [speaker002:] um uh uh well not that much just uh [speaker001:] oh you just kind of sight just kind of uh [speaker002:] right I mean I wasn't a great asset to them or anything but I you know drove a tractor helped them weed beets and that sort of thing [speaker001:] um [speaker002:] and um yep and I went to a youth camp thing included working at an old people's home and that was pretty interesting and while I was there I visited my aunt and uncle who were staying for their vacation in France in Nantes which is on the west coast like right across from England [speaker001:] um [speaker002:] um so uh where in France are you [speaker001:] Paris [speaker002:] right Paris and um [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] hum how long do you plan to be going for [speaker001:] uh two weeks last time she stayed two months but we're only going to stay two weeks [speaker002:] um-hum great [speaker001:] so [speaker002:] and uh [speaker001:] we're going to take a cooking class there so that might be fun [speaker002:] a what [speaker001:] cooking class you know French cooking [speaker002:] oh great [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] and um what else are you planning to do if anything [speaker001:] museums you know go to museums and [speaker002:] um-hum yeah [speaker001:] did you go to museums in Europe [speaker002:] um-hum um actually no I don't think I went to any of them uh the closest thing I did was go some like uh restored castles and stuff that there is some on that west coast of France [speaker001:] um [speaker002:] and I went to a vineyard or two in Germany [speaker001:] um that's neat [speaker002:] yeah that was nice um hum but so um [speaker001:] say what about have you ever been to Hawaii [speaker002:] uh no I haven't have you [speaker001:] no no [speaker002:] okay well um well where have you gone first [speaker001:] I'm wanting to go there oh God where have I gone if anywhere um [speaker002:] yeah I mean well what'd you

[speaker001:] okay um well do you uh keep a family budget or or do you have some [speaker002:] no I don't use a family budget my father who's very old has kept one his entire life and I probably rebelled rebelled against it and probably should have kept one he keeps every penny that comes in and goes out [speaker001:] uh-huh oh interesting [speaker002:] on a very strict percentage [speaker001:] yes well um we sort of started doing it years and years ago and my husband started graduate school when we were first married and I sort of just got in the habit I guess and you know and never have gotten out of it I can't really say that it's a formal budget it's more just a a pretty um a fairly uh accurate accurate um recording of what I spend and what I think I'm going to have to spend and [speaker002:] right I think it makes much more sense and I've recently uh [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] gotten out of debt and everything and I'll probably keeping start keeping a little better track of it I just uh [speaker001:] yeah yeah [speaker002:] spent whatever came in and and uh didn't never knew what came in what went out but uh just you know like about like the government runs [speaker001:] right yeah sounds real similar [speaker002:] huh so I think it's probably better to have some sort of a a at least a record but my dad's was so precise that I mean if it said to spend eleven percent on something that's what it was spent and [speaker001:] um oh my yeah [speaker002:] that was put over there and I mean uh of course he's from the depression and uh [speaker001:] yes [speaker002:] so uh you know it's his life but uh I I would I think it'd be smart if somebody would keep uh [speaker001:] sure [speaker002:] some sort of a plan that works for them [speaker001:] yeah I think you're right um well it it what's been sort of interesting to us is to um it because since I have uh pretty much kept my record books for the last fifteen years I guess I can go back and look and it's real fun to just see what how things have changed over the years uh for instance [speaker002:] yeah it is I'm a historian and my father had kept them I think since nineteen twenty seven and [speaker001:] my goodness [speaker002:] but he burned the ones from twenty seven to fifty I couldn't believe he did that but then so I took the ones from fifty two on to the present but [speaker001:] oh dear yes [speaker002:] to look to have looked back into the twenties and thirties and forties it would have been fantastic to see that but uh [speaker001:] oh yes well as a matter of fact uh my mother was going through some things uh not long long ago I guess it's been a couple of years ago in an old trunk that she had and she came upon a budget a budget book that she'd had back in the thirties uh when they it was the late well I guess it would have been I take that back it must have been the forties because they had been married uh probably fifteen years at the time [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] and it was just fascinating uh fascinating to see how little things cost I mean it was it was just almost laughable in some instances that you know of course it's all relative of course but [speaker002:] oh I know right right [speaker001:] uh never the less it was fun to see those figures next to you know for a price pair of shoes was uh like five dollars and [speaker002:] I know well even in nineteen sixty three I found a a record that I had had traveled in Europe a lot and I what I'd paid for hotels [speaker001:] um [speaker002:] and a similar hotel in Paris is two hundred dollars a night now and I paid uh oh between four and five dollars in nineteen sixty and that's really crazy because that's about thirty years ago [speaker001:] oh oh isn't that something really oh that is that is really really something [speaker002:] oh but but of course it's just what the market'll bear and if people if people will pay two hundred then why charge ten you know yeah [speaker001:] that's true yeah that's good that's right that's exactly that's just good old economics working [speaker002:] right right that [speaker001:] well uh we've tried to uh instill some sense some sense of uh of budgeting in our kids but our two children are just uh as um unlike as night night and day and our son could care less about a budget and our daughter watches her pennies so closely that [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] she almost she almost just sounds like your father I mean she has everything planned so closely closely that if something goes wrong it just throws her for a loop [speaker002:] um-hum um-hum yeah well then you never know how they'll one they they may switch flip flop when they get to be uh older well older the other one may be very careful and [speaker001:] yes right yes yes [speaker002:] she may marry somebody and of course it'd be good because if you marry somebody a little loose then she'll have that stability of watching uh you should have one in the in the in the house and I think [speaker001:] yeah I think that's true I and and it's I kind of think that's sort of what happened in our house because I think my husband was not quite as uh good at saving and so on before we got married and I was I was really diligent about that I always putting money aside and when before I was married you know when I was working in and out of college and [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] uh that really paid off because when it time came for him to go back to graduate school we were in in in fairly good good shape financially as far as not having many major debts and [speaker002:] yeah that's about the way it is here if it hadn't been for my wife I would have probably been in debtor's prison if we had one [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] so but uh what does you husband do now [speaker001:] well uh he is an engineer he's uh an electrical engineer and in fact went through uh many years of graduate school and got his PhD so we had a a lot of lot of years of budgeting [speaker002:] oh um oh yeah you have to do it when you're in school my wife's still in school getting her doctorate and so I it it and I've got [speaker001:] and you know yeah when you uh yes well I'm working I'm working on my masters degree now so in fact this last year we had three two both of the children were in college our son has a year left our daughter graduated this year and I'm uh just about ready to finish my masters degree so [speaker002:] um um [speaker001:] we've had uh once again you know some really a real lean year for us [speaker002:] oh I I know we had three in college plus my wife so that was four so we're both in the same [speaker001:] but uh yep yeah you know exactly what it's what it's like then and it's uh [speaker002:] yeah yeah [speaker001:] which you learn I guess you figure that that's an investment that is um really a invaluable invaluable um-hum yeah and [speaker002:] that's the best one yeah with education you can't take that away from you [speaker001:] that's right so it's it's one that you can live through and I think that that's way we looked at it in our beginnings when my husband was in graduate school is that there was a light at the end of that tunnel you know that [speaker002:] right sure [speaker001:] that it was worth it to save and then not have uh something and uh in return know that something better was going to be at the end of it so uh it really makes it easier but uh well I've enjoyed talking with you Jay [speaker002:] yeah that's true yeah I have enjoyed talking wit h you Kathy [speaker001:] and I I wish I could hear more about your historian part of your life because that sounds really fascinating to me I'm interested in that [speaker002:] well if I had your address I'd send you I am also in the travel business I do tours and I can take some real great tours to Europe so uh if you [speaker001:] oh oh wow well my my husband and I just were there last year um actually we didn't take a tour we we were in England and and uh went to Ireland and Scotland and just rented cars and and did it on our own but [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] um I uh that sounds interesting do is your business in Dallas then [speaker002:] yeah it's in Dallas it's here in the Quorum so I'm I'm Jerry Hammond and I'm out at Brookhaven College so you could just holler at me out there yeah [speaker001:] okay oh you're kidding well I'm going to be teaching at Brookhaven in the fall Kuenzer K U E N Z E R and I'm I'm going to [speaker002:] all right well what's your last name K U E N [speaker001:] uh-huh Z E R [speaker002:] well good I'll uh [speaker001:] and I'll be in the communications department teaching uh English one O one to I have a couple of sections yes yep that's the guy who hired me yes [speaker002:] oh well I know Zack Miller real well so uh all right well wonderful I'll look you up in the fall then [speaker001:] well fantastic good well it's good it's been a good talk conversation uh-huh bye-bye [speaker002:] okay bye-bye

[speaker001:] okay do you work [speaker002:] yes I do [speaker001:] I think that's the main change what do you think [speaker002:] well I think that's a big part of it and I I think it maybe started because women wanted outside of the home and I almost think with our society and and inflation and the cost of things it's anymore it's almost couples have to work outside the home [speaker001:] one right that's right [speaker002:] but but yeah I think that's a big change I'd like to not work what about you [speaker001:] well I've worked all the time up until just about a year ago [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] and I just uh physically I wasn't able to and I mean I love my job but I have four children and that's real hard you have children I assume so [speaker002:] um-hum yes I have two and that's been a big deciding factor because I mean I never wanted to be a career woman but as long as I was was you know was going to work I was going to do as as much as I could as well as I could etcetera and [speaker001:] right right right [speaker002:] I I wanted to stay home when I had kids well I have two I have a four year old and a three year old and we would like two more but I it's like we talked uh I don't want two more unless I can quit and stay home and take care of them which is something right now financially it takes both people to work [speaker001:] oh right oh it's real hard it's real hard I mean even I [speaker002:] yeah it's full time work [speaker001:] yeah it was so hard for me to work full time course my kids are are a little older but then you then you give up the money you know [speaker002:] um-hum yeah you do there's saying course you know everything you give up something but I just I the kids are so wonderful but I do think that's one of the major changes you know my mom I remember her being home [speaker001:] yeah that's yep [speaker002:] uh you know she made breakfast in the morning for us and if she worked it was part time and it was work that was done while we were at maybe at school and she was there when we got home you know and [speaker001:] fine yep I know yeah well I've decided now in fact I'm just I'm substitute teachers aid which is a a far cry from my travel agent career you which I loved [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] but I'm I'm there in the same school as my children my two littler ones [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] and I'm home when they're home in fact I've had an offer to just work the Christmas season at a local jewelry store and I'm just really hesitating because I've I enjoyed my the first summer home ever spent seventeen years with my kids [speaker002:] yeah oh oh [speaker001:] I mean where I didn't have babies or day care or working as a travel agent and it was wonderful my kids and I we just had a ball course their their ages they're seventeen almost seventeen fifteen almost well sixteen fourteen eleven and nine and we're just running every direction and [speaker002:] yeah see and I think oh oh but see it's such an important time to be home [speaker001:] it is yes [speaker002:] you know and that was important to me an that's my you know my husband was raised uh his his parents were divorced when he was young so his mom always worked and he's like well you know what's the big deal about being home for your kids [speaker001:] always were what yeah [speaker002:] well as our kids are getting older you know he sees it more I said Russ you don't understand what it was like to have her home or to if you needed mom at school you know she was there to help or she was there to take you and you and and I want to be able to do those things so [speaker001:] right right I think that you know it's good you know sometimes I'll have the cookies ready when they come home and and a lot of my boys uh my older boys' junior high friends will come over in fact everyday I've got boys hanging around [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] and it's wonderful I'm real close to the schools and you know we're just I I'm very happy to be staying home [speaker002:] I think that's wonderful so where do you see us changing in the future [speaker001:] but again I miss the money I don't I working [speaker002:] well see that was one of the things she the the question I think is you know what changes do we see and I'm I'm not sure I I see it going anywhere I think they're still gonna have to work [speaker001:] right that we are because it's so expensive if we want the extra clothes the extra car the extra thing is when a woman does work [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] then there's the clothes to buy and then there's the gas and then there's the lunches and then the day care you must pay a fortune in day care yeah [speaker002:] um-hum um-hum the day care eats me alive you know I pay four hundred fifty to five hundred fifty a month for two kids they'd eat you alive [speaker001:] oh my gosh yeah for two it's almost hardly worth it for you to work till they get in school then you work summers unless you're a teacher are you a teacher [speaker002:] I know you no I'm not and I would love you you you talked about having the summers off and I thought oh that would be so wonderful and I love the little preschool they are in it's wonderful you know so I feel good about them being there but it's still not the same [speaker001:] huh um-hum no it's not the same [speaker002:] it's just not [speaker001:] I I don't see things changing really and and it's terrible for divorced women [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] you know who are forced to work who maybe don't have a college education thank goodness I have mine and I could get a real good paying job if I wanted to you know do in fact I still have offers you know please come back and we'll pay you this [speaker002:] um-hum hm please come back to work sure [speaker001:] yeah yeah and it's been a real tough decision but I'm very happy to be here with my kids my kids we've seen a remarkable difference in now that I'm home [speaker002:] that's wonderful that's wonderful [speaker001:] yeah I'm real and I'm but I've been doing a lot of volunteering at the schools and playing lots of tennis yeah yeah I know [speaker002:] well I like that well we're working on it I'm hoping in about three to five years I'll be able to stay home and my kids of course will be in school then but I'll be there mornings I'll be there noons I'll be there afternoons and all I feel like that's good and I can work part days in my husband's business you know so that [speaker001:] right yeah well oh that'd be great right I think the the other thing that that has changed for women because we are working is we're having less children [speaker002:] he can afford for us to do that you know

[speaker001:] all right Cliff what kind of hobbies do you have [speaker002:] too many [speaker001:] too many not enough time for them all huh [speaker002:] I have I uh have photography or I read a lot I also uh work with computers as both hobby and and work [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] and uh those are the main ones I suppose I also design kites [speaker001:] really [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] wow that's interesting interesting well what all do you have to take into consideration when you design a kite [speaker002:] the ones I like are the ones that are simple and cheap [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] I have one that I made from newspaper that uh you can't get much cheaper than old newspaper but it doesn't have any sticks or anything of that sort [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] it flies like a sled in other words [speaker001:] are you uh have you made any money off your hobby [speaker002:] oh no no my hobbies are hobbies [speaker001:] yeah so what do you like to read when you read [speaker002:] I read uh both nonfiction and fiction [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] most of the name brand authors and so forth [speaker001:] yeah uh does that take up do you uh watch any TV or anything like that or [speaker002:] oh yeah everybody watches TV I suppose but I uh I uh not married to it let's put it that way if I have a good book I would rather read it than watch TV [speaker001:] yeah well that's good that's cool um [speaker002:] how about yourself [speaker001:] me I uh I play chess I uh lift weights play basketball ride bikes that's my exercise part of my hobbies I guess [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] and I read usually the Bible or some other type of Christian literature um let's see I like to play cards uh don't watch any TV though because we don't have a TV but uh every once in a while I'll sneak over to some friend's house and we'll watch a ball game or something uh we're just we're pretty much new in Texas so we're just trying to get into the lifestyle like we'd like to go see a rodeo sometime and and we my wife and I went to a one Ranger's game and we'd like to go a few more times maybe see Nolan pitch one time [speaker002:] should have been out the other night right [speaker001:] yeah exactly that would have been the best were you watching that game [speaker002:] well we got to see the illegal broadcast that channel five had at the end of the game [speaker001:] oh [speaker002:] they were supposed to just show a quick flick and they it turned out that was the last batter that he was pitching to so they just stayed on the uh network and I understand that the producers got themselves in a little trouble they'll probably have to pay a [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] compensation of some sort for that [speaker001:] oh that's terrible should showed a little bit of yeah [speaker002:] but we got to see it anyway so they showed a little initiative [speaker001:] showed a little bit oh yeah get your priorities in line see a little bit of history [speaker002:] right where did you uh come to Texas from [speaker001:] from Indiana [speaker002:] from Indiana [speaker001:] yeah my wife and I both went to Purdue and she got a job with Texas Instruments down here so I kind of followed her down here and I'm looking for employment or schooling or something on those lines [speaker002:] the uh Sherman is far enough away from Dallas to be uh away from most of the the blithe that associate is associated with Dallas [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] they uh I work with Texas Instruments also [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] actually I've been with TI for thirty four years [speaker001:] wow [speaker002:] in research my wife originally came from Des Moines so she's from that turf up there [speaker001:] yeah the Midwestern Corn Belt [speaker002:] right yeah I was in the Kokomo uh last year uh late on in the year uh out to the Delco plant Delco Electronics out that way [speaker001:] yeah were you just out on loan or something or [speaker002:] they uh well we had we do a lot of uh work with automotives that's lots of T I parts on automotive uh things that don't have the TI bug on them [speaker001:] oh [speaker002:] we make uh anything anything that's uh metal clad for example aluminum bumpers that are metal clad and all sorts we have we make we make that in Massachusetts the uh a lot of the sensors that go there [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] when uh automatic chokes were common in automobiles well we had a hundred percent capture of the American market we made all the automatic chokes for Ford Chrysler Chevrolet [speaker001:] wow [speaker002:] all that so there's a lot of things like that that Texas Instruments makes that even the employees don't know they make for the most part [speaker001:] no kidding I don't know that so the more a car becomes computerized the more TI becomes involved [speaker002:] yeah we have a lot of electronic stuff there as well but what I described was mainly uh associated with metals and sensors which is mainly what our Attleboro Massachusetts group does [speaker001:] huh so how did you like Kokomo [speaker002:] oh I liked it fine [speaker001:] how long were you there [speaker002:] uh only two days we we were out visiting uh Delco to show them some of the uh computerized map things that we had that sort of thing [speaker001:] yeah well you said something about uh the blithe of Dallas uh do you live in Richardson [speaker002:] yeah well we we haven't [speaker001:] so [speaker002:] been contaminated yet shall I say with the blithe but there's some older areas in Dallas and Oak Cliff that are pretty you wouldn't want to be out at night let's put it that way in that area [speaker001:] yeah but that hasn't reached Richardson yet huh [speaker002:] no no thank goodness and it's all the way across town it's on more on the south side than it is the north side anyway [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] but I guess all the older cities have that have that problem you say you play cards do you play bridge [speaker001:] oh I had a friend that taught me how to play bridge we we get all these transplanted people here in Sherman not too many I don't know any one that's from Sherman now really uh a guy from New Mexico has been trying to teach us how to play bridge and we liked it we played a game called euchre which is [speaker002:] I'm familiar with it [speaker001:] you know euchre hey that's cool [speaker002:] yeah right yeah my uh I was in the uh service right after college the Korean war going on [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] and my wife and I played uh all sorts of card games that we got out of uh book of Hoyle of which euchre was one that we learned [speaker001:] yeah right [speaker002:] pinochle uh flabbergash ever hear that I bet that's one you haven't heard of [speaker001:] I've heard of it but I've never played yeah I read read Hoyle too not the whole book but [speaker002:] yeah yeah yeah yeah [speaker001:] looked through some of the games hey euchre's a big Indiana game Indiana and Illinois and Ohio [speaker002:] yeah well in Texas of course the Texan game is with dominos playing forty two [speaker001:] with dominos [speaker002:] right it's it's a bidding game also but not like bridge you only go around one time with dominos [speaker001:] huh [speaker002:] and uh you probably haven't even heard of it but I'm I'm telling you that's a Texas game [speaker001:] no [speaker002:] okay that's a very uh very well known old timers Texas game lots of people uh play that [speaker001:] so at least I got the scouting report [speaker002:] yeah in fact that used to be called Baptist bridge because the Baptist don't believe in playing cards so you could but it's okay to play dominos so you [speaker001:] so far [speaker002:] forty two is called Baptist bridge [speaker001:] that's funny wow do you do you play cards a lot or [speaker002:] oh no I I like cribbage also that's a good game for two [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] and uh [speaker001:] play backgammon or anything like that [speaker002:] uh I haven't really gotten serious about it like the resurgence I played it in uh teams but [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] not until until it came back so to speak I haven't played that with the the doubling bet and so forth [speaker001:] I figured a uh a computer man would be into chess [speaker002:] well I uh had no one around me when I was growing up I uh solved chess problems and have several chess problem books you know mate and foremoves and that sort of thing which I enjoy but uh [speaker001:] uh-huh yeah [speaker002:] I didn't have a uh anyone else around me uh when I was growing up that was all that interested in chess I know all the moves and I can follow the game and that sort of thing and enjoy watching [speaker001:] huh [speaker002:] experts play [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] I participated one time with a uh grand master we used to have a chess club at Texas Instruments and uh we actually had a grand master in the area who came out and played all of us simultaneously you know [speaker001:] yeah uh-huh [speaker002:] and he also played us uh blindfold chess one one one on uh one and uh as the game was going along uh he says uh mate in six and if you play chess you know six is a long way ahead and uh we all looked at the board and couldn't figure out how he could possibly mate six and sure enough he mated in six just like he said he would [speaker001:] yeah wow that's scary [speaker002:] but he played us uh on a round robin where he walks around the tables and plays everybody [speaker001:] how long ago was this [speaker002:] oh it's been several years ago like uh probably ten years [speaker001:] remember his name [speaker002:] no it's too long ago uh I really don't but he was he was something else we had one member who's really uh in the professional class if you will he used to go to the matches all the time [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] and his let's see I've forgotten let's see the grand master and then right out of that's master what's the one that's just under master [speaker001:] expert [speaker002:] expert yeah he was expert [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] so uh he gave him a run for his money when he he had to be playing all of us but if he passed you uh twice uh you were out in other words if you hadn't moved when he went around so the more members he beat well the faster he got around and uh so Tony the [speaker001:] yeah

[speaker001:] all right so what do you think about gun control or what how do you rate on a one to ten scale your feelings about gun control [speaker002:] well I guess I'd probably put myself on about a five I'm kind of in the middle on that I think that there's uh there are some guns that I just can't think of any reason why anybody would want to have them unless they just want to go shoot somebody [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] but on the other hand I think there's a lot of legitimate use for guns too and I don't see any reason why we should do any sort of control or uh certainly no sort of you know serious restrictions on those for example hunting and things like that and even some self-defense things so how do you feel about it [speaker001:] I'd probably be closer to uh on the one side [speaker002:] okay [speaker001:] I don't really see the need for it um typically only thing that ever gets produced you know that occurs when you have one is you end up shooting some family member or some kid in the house [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] that's about the only good that ever comes from it [speaker002:] I don't know I know some people who hunt and uh you know [speaker001:] well I yeah you could I mean but do they necessarily have to keep them at home to do that [speaker002:] uh [speaker001:] I mean maybe there's a way they can be uh maintained in a a certain location I don't know but I don't know if individual ownership is necessary [speaker002:] um-hum yeah well it seems like most of the people who get hurt from them get hurt from handguns [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] and so I look at somebody like you know who's got a you know maybe a a twenty two caliber rifle or something like that if you know good for for you know maybe hunting some small you know animal or something like that you know I never I never hear a reports of people you know shooting each other with things like that unless they're out in the woods and drunk and then of course that's a that's another problem [speaker001:] right but that's true right that's true [speaker002:] but [speaker001:] yeah mostly I guess handguns are are create the problems but a lot of people would come back and say well uh you they need it for shooting range and that sort of thing but [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] once again I think it it may be better to keep the guns uh there and let they can go there and and use them if that's all they need it for [speaker002:] yeah um-hum yeah I agree that there's a real problem with uh with injuries and things like that uh sound like we both agree on the fact that things like semiautomatic rifles and and things like that I mean they uh [speaker001:] sure [speaker002:] I think we both agree that there's there's no uh at least use that I legitimate use that I can think of for a semiautomatic rifle except to kill people I mean that's what they were designed for and that's what they're good for [speaker001:] yes um-hum right um-hum [speaker002:] now you know I suppose if if there was some way that we could render them unusable [speaker001:] well they can always be tweaked around and made deadly once again [speaker002:] then yeah yeah I guess if there were some absolute definite way that you could you could make something like that unusable then I then I probably wouldn't have a problem with a collector having one [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] but I don't know how to do that uh without you know even pouring cement down the barrels probably way to get around that [speaker001:] yeah I don't I don't openly I don't I think any gun any gun can be modified to to certain a certain extent to be used as a weapon [speaker002:] yeah um-hum [speaker001:] so without a total ban there's always going to be guns available but [speaker002:] yeah and I think even with a total ban there'll always be guns available [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] but at that point you know I guess I don't realistically think there's anything you can do about that [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] you know you you can certainly make the possession of of of of such weapons you know you know the penalties for that very very very strict [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] but I I guess I feel like you know just like anything else you know you know there's lots of illegal things out there that people that people are you know still getting [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] but I also ascribe to the theory that you know you know guns guns don't kill people people kill people I mean that that seems to me to be wrong [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] I think I think guns do kill people and that you know you know let's face it I mean if you got a gun [speaker001:] that's right [speaker002:] it's so much easier in the heat of an argument or something to to hurt somebody than it is with a knife or [speaker001:] exactly right that's yeah for example what happened just the other evening uh Evander Holyfield's brother [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] uh you know they had some kind of disagreement or whatever and next thing you knew he was shot and dead [speaker002:] that's right that's right but you know it's interesting there was an incident here in Rochester a a few days ago where uh some people were having a real heavy argument and the guy pulled out a knife and killed the other two people [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] so you know it it it goes to show it it does prove that even even you know gun gun control certainly has a place but it's not going to be the the cure all of all society's ills [speaker001:] sure sure but I guess uh if you look at the NRA's position on it they tend to say that they don't want they really don't want to have any restrictions because they feel that once you get one and it's starts it be gets easier and it may snowball into more restrictions I don't really respect that position [speaker002:] yeah um-hum [speaker001:] and I think they're kind of getting out of touch with reality in some of their stances [speaker002:] no I I think that's an extremist position and I and I don't really subscribe to it either I think on the you know like I said I think there are some legitimate you know uses for guns and that's why I kind of put myself at a five but [speaker001:] um-hum

[speaker001:] okay [speaker002:] uh the topic is to discuss the uh sources where I receive news [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] and uh for me that's uh mostly newspaper and radio I almost never watch television as a matter of course so I don't get news from television except during the war I watched a lot of CNN because it was so good [speaker001:] uh-huh well why was CNN the only of course I think Saddam Hussein only allowed CNN to broadcast it is that not true [speaker002:] um [speaker001:] it was unusual not to have the different sources you know of news coverage [speaker002:] yeah um I don't know I guess uh I don't even know why I watch CNN I guess I just wanted more news it's one of the few times I wanted [speaker001:] yeah well I know even if you watched ABC NBC or or the other you I mean what's the other one uh CBS they all were were tapped into CNN [speaker002:] more news than CBS were they [speaker001:] uh-huh that's the only thing they broadcast and like you I listen to the radio on my job at work and all this week they've been having this uh [speaker002:] yeah uh-huh [speaker001:] a discussion about that is why uh why CNN was well I listen to a Christian radio station and they were saying that CNN is definitely a world uh news service and uh [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] that was you can't really be sure of the quality of what you got you know [speaker002:] hm [speaker001:] uh we had some uh some people from our church went to Israel uh just for a uh tour sort of thing [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] and I was watching on TV they they broadcast this terrible riot supposedly that was going on in Jerusalem so we got all fearful for our people come to find out they came back and said they weren't even aware of it [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] and so it really made me question as to what how do we know about you know uh if the news we're getting is any good so [speaker002:] yeah I guess the news just focuses on major events that probably [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] don't affect ninety nine percent of the people who are right there when the news is being made [speaker001:] right right [speaker002:] but uh I can I'm from California and I can remember being in uh in these earthquakes and I mean they were they were very minor kinds of things from my point of view and it seemed [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] you know from anyone else's point of view but they'd get all blown up in the news [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] uh [speaker001:] well I it I find it depressing to watch or especially TV you know it's uh local news concentrates on murders and things like that I'm from Dallas [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] and uh we have a lot of bad stuff it just really gets me depressed even to watch it [speaker002:] um-hum yeah [speaker001:] so then you wake up one morning and you're in war with somebody you don't even know about it [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] so [speaker002:] oh what newspaper uh do you read in Dallas [speaker001:] uh we have the Dallas Times Herald and the Dallas Morning News but I don't I don't read newspapers [speaker002:] don't you how come [speaker001:] huh-uh I have find it hard to uh follow from one page to another it's just something I've never developed uh an interest in [speaker002:] huh [speaker001:] and I live in kind of a bad area where if I have the paper delivered it's stolen before I can get out and get it [speaker002:] God that's uh that sounds pretty bad to me I mean who would steal a newspaper [speaker001:] you'd be surprised [speaker002:] hm [speaker001:] they just come by and pick them up even if it's just for the TV you know uh selections of the day I don't know it just wouldn't be there whenever I've tried it [speaker002:] I see yeah [speaker001:] so you're right who would steal a newspaper but they do [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] what part of California are you from [speaker002:] uh from Los Angeles but I live in Raleigh North Carolina right now that's where I'm speaking to you from [speaker001:] oh okay [speaker002:] but I grew up in LA I work out here [speaker001:] huh you work for TI [speaker002:] no I don't I work for North Carolina State University [speaker001:] huh [speaker002:] but uh I know some people at TI and I have a couple of students who have graduated and gone to work for them so I'm in the computer business [speaker001:] yeah well I boy current events is not a good subject for me [speaker002:] well [speaker001:] I don't keep up with it that often [speaker002:] let's see I've I've I've never done this before I mean I've never [speaker001:] this is your first call [speaker002:] this is my first call because I just got my password [speaker001:] uh-huh oh really [speaker002:] so I don't know are we suppose to it seems to me it says you're supposed to talk for three minutes but I think we've been talking for three minutes and nobody has interrupted [speaker001:] yeah well I'd I got into a conversation last night with a lady and they interrupt at ten minutes [speaker002:] I see [speaker001:] so if we've done our three minutes let's just let the conversation end and say bye nice talking to you too bye-bye [speaker002:] uh-huh well all right nice talking to you all right bye

[speaker001:] Okay. [speaker002:] So what do you, uh, think is the, uh, the worst culprit for air pollution? [speaker001:] Well, I think it's, it's probably a combination of things. Um, factories that, that burn coal as a, an energy source with sulfur and nitrogen contaminants, you know, and you get sulfur oxides and nitrogen oxides. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] Uh, those are the ones I think primarily contribute to acid rain, and I think that's, that's probably hurting us a little bit. It's hurting, you know, it's hurting Germany, for example, too, and some other parts of Europe where they, where they have high industry. So we're not the lone ranger here. [speaker002:] Yeah. I, uh, I, it's hard to put the finger on, uh, what's worse, you know, the acid rain situation or the ozone depletion, um, with, uh, your hydrocarbons, uh [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] causing the damage in which, [speaker001:] Hopefully we're backing off from that a little bit, but I know we haven't cured it yet by a long shot. [speaker002:] Well, I notice on one of these, uh, home shopping networks they were selling these, uh, halogen, uh, fire extinguishers [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] and the halogen is, uh, an ozone depleter, and it got hydrocarbons in there. It's a very clean, uh, fire extinguisher, but it's, you know, really bad on the environment. [speaker001:] Yeah. Huh. Yeah, I guess I missed that one. Uh. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] Automobiles of course are contributing, too, and, you know, how, how we are with our love affair with the auto [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] kind of hard to do anything about that, I guess. [speaker002:] I know, uh, in the Twin Cities area, I just moved out of there and was kind of happy I timed it just right, but they had a new policy where in order to get your, uh, your license, uh, your car license, uh, renewed, you had to meet the pollution standards [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] and, uh. [speaker001:] We have that here, too, but it's part of the inspection sticker, you know, they put a probe in your exhaust pipe and, and the computer reads whatever the ionization is coming out, {C and [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] so } that's, you know, that's the way they're dealing with it here. [speaker002:] Yeah, uh, yeah I guess that was just mainly in the cities there, and as far as where I live, I don't have to do that, but [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] I have an old car which I doubt would, uh, would, uh, pass the inspection, a seventy-six, and, uh, you know, there's no way I would put in a lot of money to, to repair it [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] to meet standards. [speaker001:] It'd probably be difficult anyway. [speaker002:] Yeah. So, although I do what I can to, to cut down pollution, but, uh. [speaker001:] I was just reading an article in, uh, MOTHER EARTH NEWS, MOTHER EARTH NEWS magazine [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] and, uh, they've got a new, uh, you know a lot of places are burning wood [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] a lot, a lot of people are burning wood, those of us who have, I've got a place in the country, you know [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] and, uh, they've had catalytic con-, you know, catalytic converters on those, on, uh, I think they're required in California and Oregon and, and Washington, but they've had up those for quite a while, and somebody's come up with a new one that, uh, sort of, it's a, it's a catalytic converter, it's, it's a plate that fits in, you know, into the smoke pipe [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] and, uh, apparently it sort of feeds itself. The more smoke is produced, you know, after you get to like five hundred degrees, the higher it gets the more complete the combustion is. And it sounds real neat. I haven't seen them priced anywhere yet, but that, that sounds like that might help solve that problem even on [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] you know, old, old, uh, older stoves that don't have any kind of E P A requirements on them. That might help a little bit, especially in some places. We're really lucky here. We have a prevailing southerly wind that blows just about everything out. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] Now sometimes we get a kind of a, especially in, in, uh, autumn it seem like we get kind of a brown haze sitting on us, but most of the time it's blowing out pretty well. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] Probably blowing up there to you guys [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Yeah, well, well around here I, we get, uh, well it depends, you know, either in the, in the winter time it, it blows it your way, and in the [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] summer time [LAUGHTER] [speaker001:] It comes back. [speaker002:] we probably get yours. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Yeah. I really think, uh, you know, we're doing some, some important things. Education, raising consciousness awareness, uh, I know school kids, I work for the school district here, and, uh, you know, this is one of the big things with kids. Kids are writing letters to the newspapers about, you know, telling adults to [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] clean up their act and, it's uh, you know, I hope we're not too late with it. We're, we're, uh, we're having all kinds of recycling. [speaker002:] Yeah, well, it, uh, th-, that's a big thing, too. I know it has nothing to do with air pollution, but I kind of look at the way people treat our,

[speaker001:] we go [speaker002:] so how do you rate gun control [speaker001:] well I think uh I think on a scale of one to ten I would be I would be more toward a uh a uh uh an a stand that would not totally ban guns but would certainly very much control them uh [speaker002:] I agree [speaker001:] yeah I think that uh uh and and you know I I say this because I'm coming from a I'm coming from my my uh uh my parents my parents and relatives in Massachusetts are all avid gun owners my dad's got a big collection [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] uh my brother's got a collection there they both uh do police work uh they go out and shoot and they're from the mentality that when uh uh guns were against the law only criminals owned them that sort of thing [speaker002:] I agree [speaker001:] but I uh uh I I think it's far too easy for people to get guns uh let me let me tell you a little a little more of of my background where I've really come to this position I I as I've told you before uh we lived in Malaysia for four years [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] and it uh I tell you how against the law guns or any kind of firearms are uh it's a hanging offense [speaker002:] oh my gosh [speaker001:] to have a gun there's two offenses that are hanging one is to have a gun and the other is to is to deal in narcotics and and there's no appeal once you're found guilty the sentence is automatic [speaker002:] so I guess they don't have a drug problem over there huh [speaker001:] uh well it's interesting they do uh well they do and they don't not like we do here you can't buy it off the street corners but there's so much money to be made in drugs [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] that there's a lot of times not for selling in Malaysia but people go to Thailand and they have to bring them through the airport there the last two people that got hung weren't even trying to sell them there they were just uh caught with them [speaker002:] oh no [speaker001:] and and and the uh the law says that if you've got a certain quantity on you you're presumed to be a dealer [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] uh if you're a user the penalty isn't much much less you go to rehabilitation if you're a dealer then you get hung but anyway uh they they have some very strong antigun laws there and and uh like it's a hanging offense [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] now uh yeah people get broken into and they get slashed up with knives but at least the person has to be next to you with a knife I mean you can outrun a knife but you can't outrun a gun [speaker002:] that's right [speaker001:] so uh the violent uh there is not as many people getting killed in robberies and holdups and things like that as you see here uh that's probably why I've come to that to that way of thinking of course the uh the very emotional uh thinking over what happened to President Reagan you know the guy that got it was mentally deranged since you get one so easily [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] uh but I'm sure that they get a lot of publicity there's probably a lot of people that get shot with guns by equally mentally deranged people [speaker002:] well um just recently I think it was Sunday on Sixty Minutes [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] they had an article uh or uh a news story about uh gun control and in Florida they have started something where you know you always have to be eighteen or twenty one to buy a gun but um they've started where they do a background check and so [speaker001:] um-hum yeah [speaker002:] after you can go apply for this gun but it takes like seven days [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] until you can get it and I think that's a good idea you know I'm not for total gun control because I feel like people need to protect themselves but um I think that you know the background check is a great idea [speaker001:] right yeah I think it's a I I think it's great and I'm trying to think the uh secret service agent that got uh injured so badly when he was trying to protect President Reagan [speaker002:] was it Brady yeah [speaker001:] Brady and this is the law that's before the the legislature right now is is referred to as the Brady Bill right [speaker002:] I didn't know about that [speaker001:] yeah and and that requires some that would be at the federal level and require some waiting period presumably uh during that waiting period there would be a background uh uh check that would take place [speaker002:] uh-huh see I think that's great but they also said on this um news story that that people can sell it to one another [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] and they wouldn't have to do the background check and I mean they went on to tell about all the the illegal guns and everything and that I think that Sixty Minutes bought some guns and um [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] like an Uzi even and [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] and so you know there's a lot of controversy and people walk around at gun shows with their big guns on their back saying for sale and you don't have to do any background checking I mean any they would sell it to anybody [speaker001:] yeah we you know I wonder I had occasion to go into a pawnshop recently I've never been in one in my life before and uh I was just looking around and and the majority of what they've got in there are guns [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] and I'll bet they don't I'll bet you don't I I would imagine legitimate gun dealers you'd have background checks but I'll bet if somebody goes in and offers a pawnshop guy some money for a gun [speaker002:] enough money that's right [speaker001:] he he just picks it up over the counter and and I was I was really surprised that there you can get guns of any kind that you want you know the other thing is you had talked about the uh needing a gun to protect yourself and you know maybe someday we're all going to get wiped out by a robber here and then I'll change my mind but [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] there's so many accidents with children accidentally getting a hold of guns [speaker002:] yeah there is [speaker001:] uh with the husband being out at night and the wife hearing rustling at the door he forgot his key wham he's gone uh I I absolutely don't want one in my house for that reason uh there's just too many things that can happen that are bad [speaker002:] oh really well um my dad and my brother both have a collection of guns and um I don't know I guess we we've been taught responsibility when it comes to guns but accidents always happen but my dad has always keep kept his hid from us I mean even to this day I don't really [speaker001:] yeah oh sure yeah you don't know really you don't know where it is [speaker002:] right I know where his big gun is like his shotgun and stuff but um his pistols and stuff like that and he keeps those hidden and it is just for our protection it's you know if we did have a prowler he he keeps it like um he has the little rotary dial thing and like [speaker001:] yeah yeah [speaker002:] I think it's the second shot or the third shot the bullet's in there but I mean he'll give them two chances [speaker001:] oh okay that's that's an interesting thing so uh yeah that the only way that would be a disadvantage if the other guy's got a gun and fires when he sees his and it's on it's on the first shot uh I think that uh uh [speaker002:] and um right [speaker001:] yeah I I I think that you know people have legitimate reasons for having them the only problem is so many people have them that don't have legitimate reasons for having them And the other thing is that there are a lot of crimes of passion [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] uh you know a guy may have one at home for his protection but suddenly uh uh yeah wife or he gets in an argument with a neighbor and he goes home particularly when we get into the hot summers and [speaker002:] his wife that's happening more and more often too [speaker001:] oh sure he goes ho me and gets his gun out and comes back and shoot them there was a uh uh just recently here in Dallas I'm I'm trying to reconstruct it somebody jumped in front of somebody in line in front of a seven eleven and they got mad and they had a little argument over it so this one guy goes home and he is sitting talking to his his uh [speaker002:] huh-uh [speaker001:] uh brother about it and he sees the guy that jumped the line in front of him coming down the street so they got out and have more words and the second party went down to his house several houses down the street and got a gun and come back and shot the other guy and killed him [speaker002:] oh my gosh [speaker001:] and and and when they're available like that people who normally wouldn't do things like that but momentarily fly off the trigger [speaker002:] that's right [speaker001:] tend to uh uh uh uh tend to do that and then it happens in the in the cities a lot it happens in uh uh I I guess at certain times of the year tempers grow short [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] and and it happens then and I I uh uh you you know my uh uh oldest daughter's fiance is a uh is a part part he's a college professor but he also is a reserve police officer and and he uh he has all kinds of guns and he's taken her out to teach her to shoot [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] and uh uh you know I think that's good because she's not afraid of them and it it teaches her to be responsible relative to guns but uh when he's out on police work you know he leaves her home alone and shows them where they are in case she needs them and I worry about that I would almost worry about that more than if she didn't have one [speaker002:] yeah because she might be um apt to go get it a little quicker than [speaker001:] see what I mean yeah uh yeah yeah yeah years ago I lived in an apartment and one night I heard wham and boy it shock the apartment [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] and uh I came out and some girls came flying out of their apartment uh next to me and they asked me to come in and look and there was chips of wood all over the place and a big hole in the ceiling and a bullet comes to rest on the pillow beside one them's head [speaker002:] oh no [speaker001:] evidently it had ricocheted around the room well a young boy ten or eleven years old uh was living with his dad in the apartment up above and his dad's girlfriend was visiting and the dad took the girlfriend home and apparently the boy had uh he had a gun in there for protection so the boy was bored it was a three fifty seven magnum and he was sitting there spinning the chamber and it went off and actually shot his toe off and went through the ceiling uh through the his floor which was the ceiling of the apartment below that and I say ricocheted around the room a little bit [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] it was kind of scary [speaker002:] yeah really if it landed on her pillow beside her if she had uh just rolled over [speaker001:] yeah and it it it had about spent all it's energy but you could see there was splintered wood from all the places that it hit going around the room [speaker002:] oh my gosh [speaker001:] and and uh so I I uh I I think we're almost coming from the same place on this subject really [speaker002:] yeah I do too [speaker001:] I I I I think that that we don't want to go to the extreme of banning them completely but we sure want a lot of control then and a lot of protection [speaker002:] um I think I would rate probably a seven [speaker001:] yeah I think I would too I think I would too [speaker002:] just because um you're right I think that if we did ban them the bad guys would still have them [speaker001:] yeah be uh well it's too late hey hey if I were starting my own country from the beginning [speaker002:] I mean [speaker001:] from the beginning I would [speaker002:] probably like the country Malaysia is that where you said I mean they started it [speaker001:] yeah Malaysia but of course uh it's also true in Great Britain [speaker002:] oh really [speaker001:] yeah they're not allowed in Great Britain either even the policemen don't carry them the policemen carry clubs but don't [speaker002:] no I didn't know that

[speaker002:] so well what what are you guys doing with recycling [speaker001:] uh well I mean in DC there's a law uh that was recently passed that like um you have to it's a law I think that organizations have to provide recycling I guess recycling bins they have to recycle it's a law to do it [speaker002:] yeah they just they just did the same thing up here uh the whole county built a uh uh incinerator actually only two thirds of the county built it [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] and they also of course they had to the New York State EEC the environmental people mandate that you have to recycle things so anybody who wants funding or doesn't want their landfills closed and sued has to uh recycle [speaker001:] it's like um I mean personally I've never been a recycling nut in terms of like I don't I don't go out of my way and I think like they put uh receptacles around campus and the dorms and that makes me um more apt to do it because it's there it's more convenient right [speaker002:] yeah a lot of people up here the exact same way you know they won't lift a finger and uh it hasn't gotten around here that you know you go to any store or something and there is a trash can there isn't a bin for glass a bin for [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] it's it's really just on the verge it it hasn't quite happened yet but that you know I was on vacation a couple places uh uh Utah had some bins [speaker001:] yeah I mean I'm looking right here there's a waste bin for waste I don't know I guess they recycle I guess they can recycle normal waste I'm not really sure and there's trash cans too I mean generally when I'm right when I if I go by the waste bin I'll put something in there if it fits they've got cans and bottles um and bins for paper [speaker002:] so you wouldn't walk around for a long time with a can in your hand because you couldn't found a uh a bin for it [speaker001:] no no not really I mean [speaker002:] toss it in the first place that it that you could find [speaker001:] yeah I mean like the right now I'm in uh our student center studying and I'll go out of my I'll walk up get up from my table and walk out of my way I mean well they're right near the trash can so I'll I'll toss it in the bin but um as far as if I'm walking in the street drinking a soda and I finish it I'm going to toss it in the nearest trash can probably I mean it's convenient it's it's there if the the recycling bin is not there I'm probably I'm if it was there I'd use it [speaker002:] right well I think well maybe that's a good way to uh promote recycling is just to make it more available [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] exactly I mean even in my in my dorm it's in the basement but I pile it I let I let them pile up in the trash in my uh in the garbage in um a giant bag a a shopping bag and then uh take it down in the basement and toss it in the uh recycling trash can um but yeah I mean more receptacles uh around on the streets even would would um make people do it I mean if it's there they're going to do it still I mean some people won't even go that far out of their way there are people who are pretty ignorant and I mean or are really set in their ways [speaker002:] yeah I guess you know my mom she always recycled everything [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] so I'm use to it but if I was use to just throwing things away it would be a really tough habit to unlearn [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] so maybe you know the next generation will be a little bit more uh conscientious than we are [speaker001:] yeah I'm sure they will I mean with uh the way things are going I mean uh it's going towards a more green type of thing green thinking should call it people more aware more aware they need to save the environment and all that [speaker002:] course you are on a college campus where people are more aware than the general public [speaker001:] right oh definitely I mean there's been plenty of uh up roar about the uh Marriott using um styrofoam cups and styrofoam plates and that kind of thing [speaker002:] now now that's really tough because you read stuff and you can't tell whether a styrofoam plate is actually more or less wasteful than a paper one or some other plastic [speaker001:] yeah cause I mean yeah the paper ones are have plastic coated and they're probably even worse I don't really know [speaker002:] yeah who knows what's not [speaker001:] harder to recycle [speaker002:] and uh you know if you put them in a landfill they take up the same amount of space [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] because the paper doesn't break down either [speaker001:] well I think it's possible to recycle styrofoam but it's more expensive um they do have reusable cups that people can uh I mean basically you've got carry around this cup if you want to if you want to be uh environmentally um conscious and they I believe they give discounts on on drinks if you have this cup so that's kind of incentive you have a discount on your on your on your drink instead of the regular price or whatever [speaker002:] well that that's good I mean God forbid you should actually you know have a cup and then wash it out once and a while and reuse it [speaker001:] yeah right [speaker002:] yeah like imagine that

[speaker001:] Okay, well, you, [speaker002:] Do you have any pets? [speaker001:] Um, we got two cats. [speaker002:] Two cats. [speaker001:] Yeah, and, uh, um, yeah, we had cat, you know, my family had cats when we were growing up the whole time until my Mom developed an allergies, [speaker002:] [Very faint] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] so, I mean, I'm used, I'm used to having cats around, I like them. [speaker002:] Yeah, I like having ca-, cats around or pets around in general I, I favor dogs over cats actually but, [speaker001:] Oh, see, I'm not, uh, I'm not a dog person at all [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Oh, I'm, I'm a dog person. I had, I guess it depends on what you had when he were a kid, right? [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Yeah, probably, I was allergic to dogs when I was a kid, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] in fact, I may still be, um, we, [speaker002:] But not cats. [speaker001:] That, um, I wonder sometimes [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] Um, but we, um, we house sat for a, um, my, um, my wife's boss a couple weeks ago and, um, uh, he has a dog and everything, we were, you know, we were sitting the dog and everything and, uh, I felt like just miserable all weekend and it really didn't dawn on me until Sunday, it was like, hey, maybe you're still allergic to the dog. It was like, oh, that could be it. [speaker002:] The thing I don't like about dogs sometimes is that the house will just reek, [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] of the dogs, and constantly. [speaker001:] Well, dogs are real high maintenances, you got to take them for walks and you've got to pay a lot, you know, you need to pay attention to cats and everything but it's not quite the same thing. [speaker002:] Yeah, that's true. [speaker001:] Um, and, um, um, you know, it's, it's just nice that cats, you know, cats, yeah, you don't have to let them outside, you know, all cats are indoor cats, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] so, you know, they're not, yo-, w-, you're not worried about them running all-around the neighborhood and, you know, they, you know, they, they make their mess in the cat pan which is, [speaker002:] Limited. [speaker001:] yeah, it's, you know, it's a pain to clean but, you know, we used to, I mean, they got great stuff out now for cleaning cats' pans. They didn't, [speaker002:] Oh, really? [speaker001:] Well, when I was, you know, when I was growing up I had a clean the cat pan all the time, and I hated it because I had to carry everything upstairs and, you know, and use this thing to, you know, scoop the, take the stuff out and put it in the toilet and everything it was really terrible. But now they have like this, you get these liners, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] that is garbage bags, you know, and you, and you, you know the, [speaker002:] Oh, that sounds so easy, what I did, [speaker001:] Yeah, the cats do it in there, you pull it and take it out and throw it away, and that's it, [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Yeah, I housesat from cats for a friend of mine which she was finishing up her thesis, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] and what we used to do was just put, um, newspaper on the bottom and then put cat litter and then I would just take the whole thing to the garbage can and dump the whole thing. [speaker001:] Same idea [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Then I would do it, you know, everyday or two days so I would clean that pan very, very rarely, [speaker001:] Everyday? [speaker002:] and so it wasn't so bad. [speaker001:] Oh, okay, I see. [speaker002:] two cats and just as easy it just never started smelling, I would put just a little bit of cat litter in there, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] because if I put a lot, one of the cats would have been, [LAUGHTER], all of her animals that she ever had were adopted. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] I that true, yeah. Yeah, she's even got, she's got one dog now and the two cats and her dog there is, is basically a reject, somebody had bought him, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] and wanted him. It was her ex boyfriend and, you know, just was not mature enough to keep the dog, didn't realize how much work it was and now, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] she's stuck with it. And she's just so kindhearted that she just takes all the animals but I think that for me, well, my husband just has completely nixed the idea of having a dog or a cat [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] because that's all there is to it. So, you know, [speaker001:] So, you don't have anything right now? [speaker002:] No, we don't have anything right now. [speaker001:] Oh, except the kid, huh, that's, [speaker002:] Oh, right, [LAUGHTER], now we have a kid but he was, no, completely against having a dog or cat, he said, they're much, they're as much work as a kid, and they're harder to get rid of for the weekend, [LAUGHTER]. And, [speaker001:] Uh, I don't, I don't know because the cats pretty much, um, yeah, we can leave them for a weekend as long as we put plenty of food out, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] and, um, uh, it's not a big deal really, I mean they're, they're happier when we're around but, you know, they, they're pretty much okay by themselves, um, and I don't, you know, we couldn't do that with a dog. [speaker002:] That's, uh, yeah, really true. But like the friends, other friends of mine have cats, they have four of them, and if they go away, they have, they hire a pet sitter to come in twice a day and pet them and things like that and their cats, you know, they're so used to the attention, that if they don't get it, they get really upset, [speaker001:] Well, that's, [speaker002:] and, you know, they sort of cause trouble around the house and things like that. [speaker001:] That's, um, pampering the, the petals [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] I, I tried to have, um, [LAUGHTER], figured something having, so I tried to have a goldfish, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] and, um, I killed that one within a very short amount of time. [speaker001:] But they're not that much fun, you know, you can't take them for a walk, you can't, you know, they, they don't, they can't fetch, you know, [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] they ca-, they can't do anything, so I've never, I think we had fish sh-, when I was a kid but I don't, [speaker002:] My brother had fish when I was a kid I remember that, and one of his fish jumped out of the, um, gosh, what do you call it, fish tank. And fried itself, [LAUGHTER], on the radiator behind the dresser. I'll never forget that because I remember my brother, [speaker001:] Oh. [speaker002:] he came home and he counted the fish and one of the fish was missing and they couldn't find it anyplace, they couldn't figure out what had happened and then they found it fried on, [LAUGHTER], the radiator behind. [speaker001:] Oh. [speaker002:] it was not gross, I didn't see it but, um, [speaker001:] Oh. [speaker002:] got them. Trying to remember we had a dog for a while, and I don't know if we got rid of the dog because my brother was allergic to it, my brother had asthma and some allergies which I think he's outgrown now, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] but because of that we didn't have very many pets afterwards and then he had fish. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] And you, they're, like you say, they're not the most exciting pet to have. [speaker001:] No, it's like, I just, I don't know, I, I just never understood why, what the attraction, I mean, they're, you know, they're pretty and everything but I've just never s-, seen the attraction of having fish. It's not as much fun. [speaker002:] Well, a friend of mine had, um, an eel, [speaker001:] [Breathing], an eel? [speaker002:] and then he had a, um, I forget what type of fish it was, it was one of these fish that i-, it would eat, it ate a big other fish and things like that. There would be sort of moby fish in a tank. [speaker001:] Oh, now we really get sick [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Yeah, and it, I, I couldn't see having fish like that. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] I could see some having, maybe some of the tropical fish, that are really, really pretty but, [speaker001:] Like, I remember a friend of mine at work telling me that at his frat in college that they had a tank of piranha, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] and, uh, you know, used to drop mice in this is not, these aren't cats, [LAUGHTER], you know, [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] this is gross. [speaker002:] Yeah, no, that would be, what did they do, everyone come around and watch them. [speaker001:] Yep. [speaker002:] I mean, I guess that's fine if you have a mouse problem at your frat house, [speaker001:] Yeah, well, [speaker002:] and your things destroyed the mice. But, [speaker001:] Yeah, well, a cat will do the same trick [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Let's see, I had a pet rat, [LAUGHTER], for a while, [speaker001:] [Breathing]. [speaker002:] and it was a live rat, and, um, this woman just offered it to me while I was in, in graduate school and, [speaker001:] I had a friend in col-, [speaker002:] she was actually a very fun pet. [speaker001:] I had a friend in college who had a, um, had a pet rat for a while. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] Um, I forget how she got it, but it was, um, it was the same kind of a deal I think she got it, I think she was a psych major and she got it from the psych department. [speaker002:] Yeah, mine had been a, a, a how did this work, a mill rat had been bought and the people in the lab one day called in my friend and said, you know, this rat is acting really strange I think he's sick, and she said, I don't think he's sick, I think she's pregnant, [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Whoops [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] And they had misclassed the sex of back there and so, um, she asked me if I want to, one of those babies, and I took the baby and I got her when she was, you know, just this tiniest little thing like, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] half the price of a mouse, and then she grew to be, you know, I had pictures of her when she would sit on my hand and then she grew to be pretty big, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] you know, like a pound or something I don't know how much, and I had her for over two years and she was very affectionate. She would, you know, crawl on me and she would sit like on my neck or my shoulder while I was working, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] and things like that. Yeah, much more than you would think. [speaker001:] Oh, yeah, I mean, you know, if you get them young and everything before they go, kind of nuts, so. [speaker002:] Yeah and, [speaker001:] Yeah, rats are not my favorite animals in the world, but I could see getting one from birth and everything. [speaker002:] Yeah, I, sort of weird for me to have had one too but there, it was a convenient little pet to have because it stayed in its cage and, you know, it was easy. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] Easy to take care of and but, [speaker001:] Yeah, I, I, I have friends with hamsters and gerbils and they, they tell me the same thing. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] I just, again it gets into vivant much fun, [LAUGHTER], you know what, I guess they can be. I, [speaker002:] Actually it was more fun than you would think. Yeah, starting from the beginning but, um, yeah, we live, also live in the city now, actually in Manhattan. [speaker001:] Okay. [speaker002:] And so it's almost impossible to, it's not fair to a pet to have a pet here, [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] or certainly, certainly not a dog, I mean, people do, [speaker001:] Oh people, [speaker002:] but it's not, [speaker001:] I don't, oh, plus, I mean, the pooper scooper one New York, so, you know. [speaker002:] Oh, yeah, you see all these people, yeah, these stately people, and well dressed people out walking their dogs with their plastic bag or their piece of paper for them, it's really kind of funny. [speaker001:] Yeah, uh, I was living in northern Jersey when that law came through, remember hearing all about it, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] we were wondering if they, uh, they had any special law for the horses in Central Park. [speaker002:] Right, no, they don't. I should make you, [speaker001:] Of course, not. [speaker002:] they have, um, the bags behind them but I think they're actually supposed to, [speaker001:] Hit the bags. [speaker002:] keep them, yeah, keep them clean but, oh, gosh, I can't even walk by Central Park yeah when summertime, just the smell is so bad [LAUGHTER], [speaker001:] Oh, God, I can't, [speaker002:] of the horses. [speaker001:] Haven't been up there, last time I was there was fall so probably wasn't that bad [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Oh, well, it's not that long ago. It was, [speaker001:] Not this past fall but I mean fall, [speaker002:] Oh, twelve times, of the year. [speaker001:] a few years, I mean, it w-, it was in the, yeah, it was almost like October of eighty-five, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] I think was the last time I was up, up there and at Center Park. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] Um, I had a friend who went to Colombia and I used to go up and visit her. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] Um, so, [speaker002:] Yeah, that's not too far from were we live, do you have, you said you had two cats, are they, um, just what you call it, are they breed cats or anything or are they just, [speaker001:] No, they're just mutts, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] yeah, my wife got them from, uh, um, friend of hers at work and everything, you know, you know, as kittens, [speaker002:] [Very faint] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] and it was before, I mean, this was before we even met. Um, she's had them for a couple years. And um, you know, they're really cute, they're, they're sisters, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] one of them is a lot bigger than the other one and, [LAUGHTER], she pushes the other one away from the food. Apparently w-, I don't know all the details but they were born around Christmas because one of them is named Tinsel and the other one is named Holly. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] You know, the scr-, [speaker002:] They're both females? [speaker001:] both, yeah, both females, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] they're both spayed, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] um, or whatever it is, neutered, you know, [throat clearing], um, and they're, they're both declawed at least on the, the front claws. [speaker002:] Uh-huh.

[speaker001:] well um what what do you think about the metric system uh do you uh find it usable have you tried much with it [speaker002:] well with with an engineering degree it's of course it's a whole lot easier [speaker001:] yeah um-hum to use you mean uh-huh [speaker002:] because uh yeah if if somebody had is totally unfamiliar with it uh human nature being what it is we don't like to change [speaker001:] yes [speaker002:] uh it just makes absolutely makes perfectly good sense to me because it's all decimal [speaker001:] yes [speaker002:] and it's so easy to convert from one set of units to another [speaker001:] um-hum um-hum well I've I've lived both in the United States and and in a country where they do use the metric system and uh so I've I've lived with pounds and inches and found it really quite easy to convert over um the secret seeming to me is to be to not bother ever converting inches to centimeters and pounds to kilometers [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] uh kilograms and I think that's what hung people up the most is they went now wait a minute an inch is two point fifty four centimeters how on earth am I every going to do the math [speaker002:] that's right right right [speaker001:] and the problem is that we tried to convert everything from inches to centimeters preserving basically the inches but expressing them as centimeters rather than saying no a centimeter is about the width of your thumbnail or whatever and you know and leaving it at that and uh you know a kilogram weighs about this much and get used to it from scratch cause I still can't convert back and forth from inches to centimeters but I'm perfectly comfortable using either [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] and I think the real problem with this this weird conversion you see signs that say fifty five miles per hour and you know whatever it would be one hundred six kilometers per hour you know people you know it's hard to take it seriously [speaker002:] oh yeah [speaker001:] and as long as both were given you basically just don't read the kilometers per hour you just say well look read the miles per hour one the other one must be for someone else [speaker002:] that's right [speaker001:] uh I don't know I mean even Britain has converted over and we inherited this mess from them and uh [speaker002:] that's right it's all their fault [speaker001:] well I mean it's more our fault than theirs at this point because they they saw the light um I don't know why they were um were more able than we were except I think that they probably just said well we're just going to start using the things now and you sort of have to force people to change since they don't want to [speaker002:] of course being part of the European community if everybody else did it they they were probably much more is much more necessary for them than for us [speaker001:] that's true that's that's probably true and America does have a long history of sort of doing things our own way rather than adopting you know some other model [speaker002:] well uh there's an expression for that with eyes on the past backing confidently into the future [speaker001:] I've never heard that one that's very nice oh so I'm all for the metric system and converting over and I think I guess my feeling is the way to do it is is to just start giving weights you know have a very brief transition period and then just start giving weights and kilometers or just as in kilometers and weights and kilograms and everything like that and uh just have people start using it rather than having people constantly trying to convert remember me getting a package of something that said one pound is a package of dates mind you it's was presumably something you weigh fairly precisely it said one pound and then in parenthesis it said four hundred and fifty four point six grams [speaker002:] right right [speaker001:] and as near as I could tell seeing that was basically antimetric propaganda cause anyone who would say well look I can either buy a pound of something at four hundred sixty four point six grams which of course they couldn't weigh it out accurately anyway um every time I see something like that I think well that's that's an antimetric argument [speaker002:] yep well I I don't think it'll it could ever happen with with a quick transition [speaker001:] you don't [speaker002:] no I I think that would be the easiest way but human nature being such as it is [speaker001:] um-hum um-hum [speaker002:] I would think it would take probably two or three years before people could could completely cut the cord [speaker001:] yeah oh oh that's what I was thinking by quick transition I didn't mean you know I didn't mean like Sweden going over to right hand drive or anything you know at midnight tonight we all switch over or anything [speaker002:] did they switch [speaker001:] uh I believe so yeah and I think they did it overnight cause you know you can't do it gradually that's an example of something you can't do gradually [speaker002:] well that's true it it has to be kind of a discreet transaction [speaker001:] yes it does a quantum leap from left to right hand drive and they but you know that must have taken uh that was something that had to be done quickly you know because of external circumstances but they decided to do it to make themselves in sync with the rest of Europe or the rest of continental Europe and [speaker002:] interesting oh yes yeah yeah [speaker001:] you know but that must have been tremendously difficult to orchestrate um [speaker002:] I'm sure [speaker001:] so I I I I I think it's essential that it's done and I think the real trick is to avoid the you know a little more attention to human psychology and whereas people want round numbers and after all the whole reason to go over to metric is to have round numbers so they don't deal with thirty seconds of an inch and so what the exact [speaker002:] exactly exactly [speaker001:] the thing that was best about metric was the thing that was most poorly represented really I think [speaker002:] well we do have the two liter soda pop bottles [speaker001:] uh-huh I saw that I saw that the other day I don't don't drink soda pop but I saw a two liter soda pop bottle so yeah things like that [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] are a good start and if you start expressing one liters and one kilograms and then the pounds come in the the you know the odd numbers you know two point two pounds or something I think people will start getting a sense of gee the metric is the sensible one [speaker002:] right yes that's true well sure have enjoyed our talk [speaker001:] yes well get back to what you're doing and I'll do the same I enjoyed talking with you too okay bye-bye [speaker002:] okay God bless bye-bye

[speaker001:] I guess you heard our conv-, our topic for today was clothing? [speaker002:] Yes, I certainly did. [speaker001:] How you dress for work and season to season and everything. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] How do you dress for work? [speaker002:] Well, uh, uh about the same I dress for school. I, uh, I am a graduate student so, [throat clearing] I don't have to worry too much about, uh, what I wear too much of the time. [speaker001:] Sure. [speaker002:] Which is nice. Uh [speaker001:] You bet. [speaker002:] Uh, uh, although I do, uh, a lot of, I am a speech pathology major and so I do a lot of clinical work and when I do clinic work then I have to, uh, uh, look my best. [speaker001:] Look professional [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] Unfortunately. [speaker001:] Yeah, I understand. I am a, I own my company. I am in the, I am, uh, manufactures rep sales organization and my office is a small office and I am very casual and wear slacks and sports shirt and things like that [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] but then when I travel it is a little different situation. [speaker002:] Yeah, sure. [speaker001:] Uh, suits and sports coat, tie and the whole bit. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] Cause you go to meetings and you are required to look your best and look professional of course. [speaker002:] Yeah. Yeah. Uh, uh, do you find that, uh, on the average do people give uh, more credibility or less credibility to a professional, uh, to professionally dressed individual. [speaker001:] Yeah, I think in today's society, uh, there is more credibility to be quite honest [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] I will always remember, I will tell this real quick story when I graduated from college, my first job years ago, uh, thirty years ago, twenty-nine years ago, in fact, was selling agricultural fertilizer. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] I worked for the, uh, Smith Douglas Division of Borden Chemical and I sold uh, you know, manure. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] And, uh, I would go out and call on farmers and I would always try to look my best wearing sport coats and things like that, but I was calling on guys that wore bib overalls. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] And so, one day I got up and thought well I will just go casual and you know that I called on a guy wearing exactly that, bib overalls, and he sort of told me that he expected me to be professional [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] and he sort of expected me to dress as a professional [speaker002:] Oh, really? [speaker001:] so, uh, it was sort of, [speaker002:] Even the farmers. [speaker001:] You bet [speaker002:] Oh, wow. [speaker001:] even back then so I sort, uh, been aware of my dress ever since then and [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] try to look my best, but here again I dress casual quite a bit so, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. Yeah, certainly. [speaker001:] It gives you confidence. In my business if I call on the the J C Penney company here in Dallas or say someone say Sears and Roebuck in Chicago, then I wear coat and tie. If I call on just, uh, a normal little dealer of mine, I might be casual. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] I call on Oshman's sporting goods, again, it may be casual or it may be coat and tie. So it depends. [speaker002:] Yeah, it depends. Sure. Uh, so you don't, uh, if you had the choice would you wear a tie or not? [speaker001:] Uh, probably no. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] Probably, no. [speaker002:] [Sniffing] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] Because, uh, today I believe you can get away with, but then it depends on who you are calling on. Who you're, you like your minister standing up in front of you with no tie, you just, uh, he would be missing something. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] Although, he shouldn't be evaluated on that. [speaker002:] Right, right. [speaker001:] So, it's its' just different. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. Yeah, that, uh, [throat clearing] if if you wanted to, uh, uh, really get into a hot issue, uh [sniffing], well at least in some in some beliefs, uh, how people dress when they go to church is, uh, is uh, sometimes a pretty, pretty hot topic. [speaker001:] Yes, it is. [speaker002:] Uh, un-, un-, un-, unfortunately. [speaker001:] I am, uh, like a Catholic and the people that go to my Church, you know Catholics dress very casual [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] a lot of the times. People in jeans and in whatever, but yet the way I was raised, I am a converted Catholic, the way I was raised, I was raised a Baptist and like as a youngster I use to always dress up all the time. I guess that has changed also. [speaker002:] Uh-huh [sniffing]. Uh, yeah. I'm, I am, uh, I go to the Church of Christ. I have been raised in the Church of Christ and, uh, [sniffing] but, uh, I, uh, [throat clearing] too many times you hear you hear a lot about what what you're, uh, supposed you're supposed to look your Sunday best [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] uh, [sniffing] uh, and dress and proper attire and, uh, and sometimes that really disappoints me, uh, in, uh, [throat clearing] when I see in other economic areas like in Kentucky. [speaker001:] Sure. [speaker002:] You know, people just don't have that and they are afraid to go to church or afraid to go simply because [speaker001:] But. [speaker002:] they don't have the clothes to wear. [speaker001:] That is a very good point. I am from West Virginia so I understand what you are saying there [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] and it's it's a very good point. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] But you shouldn't, what's the old saying, you shouldn't judge a book by its cover. [speaker002:] Certainly. [speaker001:] And, uh, evaluation of an individual. Course, all of it depends on the type of job responsibility you have. I think you have to dress sort of accordingly. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] But, uh, you certainly should not judge a book by its cover and, uh, or evaluate a person by that. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] What about season to season. Does, I guess your dress changes. [speaker002:] Uh, yeah a little bit. Uh, uh [throat clearing], of course in the summer if I can get away with it, I wear, uh, uh, a pair of shorts and that's it. Run around barefoot, [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] no shirt or anything [throat clearing]. But, uh,

[speaker002:] well I guess we're uh [speaker001:] uh [speaker002:] forced to finally to do a lot about air pollution I hear that the major automobile manufacturers are looking at nonpolluting cars and low polluting fuels fuels are being experimented with ethanol and other types of fuels [speaker001:] yeah one of the things they asked me to ask you was where you thought the major source was coming from [speaker002:] I you know I assume that the major sources are cars and factories but I [speaker001:] or sources that's what I would think [speaker002:] I don't know for sure I just know that um acid rain apparently is a big problem in Canada from what comes over the border from us [speaker001:] right yeah I think the automobile definitely is an area uh any any industry that burns you know and then I don't know about chemical pollution I'm not real into that as far as how it affects the air I know we have a lot of chemical the indoor type pollution they have offices that are too well insulated they found people are getting sick [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] but I don't know if that affects outside you know I I think seems to think seems to me that's what they were asking about was outside and the thing I can the only thing I can think of would be cars and factories [speaker002:] yeah the smokestacks or the exhaust pipes um I guess there's been a lot of pressure to um [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] do away with the CFCs in these spray bottles which has been a real problem [speaker001:] right yeah that is well that's destroying the ozone isn't it yeah [speaker002:] again I that's what I hear and and there's this big debate apparently about whether the ozone there's a hole in the ozone or not but at last I heard it was uh discovered that the hole was bigger than they thought initially [speaker001:] yeah that's it it's kind of scary [speaker002:] well it is scary and I think it will uh continue to force us to clean up our act literally and figuratively [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] we've got to learn to manage without destroying the environment [speaker001:] yeah I think something too that you probably see in older states all we we do it down here once in a while we will have a cold spell is where people will use their fireplaces [speaker002:] I I I'm wondering whether it's going to get to the point where you can't do that in Los Angeles they're apparently going to they've passed laws that for habit for example people using [speaker001:] I think it will [speaker002:] barbecues gasoline lawn mowers [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] um and it's really bad in places like Los Angeles and it's gotten bad in Denver and and uh it's not too bad around here although you see it you know more and more in the sky [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] and people in this country are really wedded to their uh cars and our economy seems to and this I think is one of the big problems [speaker001:] right yeah in this area too since you know in Texas we're so spread out we have to drive so far but I know in Colorado I have witnessed that where it just uh [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] it just stacks up at the when the Rockies starts but we're even getting it here we can drive into when we've been on vacation or something drive into Fort Worth or Dallas and you can tell it in the mornings too my husband likes to go out and jog and there's just a brown fog here and we don't even have any mountains that are holding it in [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] but they also said that more dense the population and the more we crowd together the worse it gets [speaker002:] well that makes a lot of sense I mean I I hadn't thought about it that way but it it [speaker001:] you don't have to have mountains there stopping it [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] and uh they make uh making more and more high-rise buildings and uh so yeah we can comment and we didn't see this a few years ago it was pretty clear here [speaker002:] no and I think yeah and I think that that more and more it's becoming apparent to people that the earth which includes all the people on it and everything that's going on it is a is an organism of sorts and that there is a a whole [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] set of organic relationships that if we start to destroy one part of it it's going to tell us about it and uh we're going to feel it and I think it's going to be real interesting and particularly in light of what is obviously going to be a big structural change in the economy [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] uh in this country uh whether people are willing to get out of their cars and in in this country uh the the solution that that people seem to think work are politically unacceptable for example taxing people heavily for using their cars [speaker001:] yeah yeah [speaker002:] and uh I'm I have a little sports car that I enjoy using and I know just like anybody else how much fun it is to drive but I think uh we're gonna have to make some fundamental changes and and I'm I'm not sure how long it's gonna take or what it's gonna take because they keep saying that the economy is gonna depend on how many cars and houses we sell [speaker001:] yes and it's a shame too when you do see somebody driving a big car just one person in that it's a lot of waste but

[speaker001:] How would you feel about sending an elderly family member to a nursing home? [speaker002:] Well, I don't feel very good about it, but I think that at some times it can be the right thing to do. We sent my grandfather to a nursing home at the point when he was really incapable of caring for himself anymore. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] He actually died a few months after that, and so as, at least in retrospect, it was the right thing to do because he was either in a nursing home or a hospital [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] or something else that he would have been spending most of his time in those days. [speaker001:] And what type of recommendations did you have when you decided where to place him? [speaker002:] Um, well, the, see, uh, well, we, he wanted to get into a Mennonite nursing home which is very popular and hard to get into and had like a ten year waiting list [speaker001:] Oh, my. [speaker002:] right, we wound up just choosing a, another Mennonite nursing home that was easier to get into. Or but naturally, no, it was even Mennonite related, I'm sorry, it was actually not a particularly great nursing home. Mostly the thing was that it was available when we needed it, [speaker001:] Yeah, [speaker002:] because he suddenly got sick [speaker001:] so the convenience, [speaker002:] and needed to be put in. [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] Uh, what do you think? [speaker001:] My grandmother lived with us, um, until August, um, and we made the decision to put her in a nursing home. She has leukemia [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] and her, the rest of her family and her regular doctors and everybody she trusted and knew was in Dayton, and were several thousand miles away [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] so I made the decision to put her in a nursing home, and my sister being on the other end found one that she could have what was called an independent living facility. She had her own little room and didn't have to share it with anyone and could bring in her own chair and T V set [speaker002:] Yeah [speaker001:] so. [speaker002:] yeah, that's important [speaker001:] Yes. [speaker002:] I would say. [speaker001:] And that, the other major factor is that she needs blood transfusions every week to ten days, and would have to be hospitalized a day or two, so in this facility they can do it right there from her own room [speaker002:] Okay. [speaker001:] so she didn't have to be transported back and forth. So, she's been there since August the thirteenth and seems to have adjusted pretty well. It's not her favorite place to be in. She'd much rather be here with me. But [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] when it got to the point I was spending more time at the hospital with her, and I've got little children here who needed me here [speaker002:] Right, so that, *slash error. two utts [speaker001:] she needed somebody to watch her twenty-four hours a day. [speaker002:] Right, and [speaker001:] So. [speaker002:] that becomes difficult then. [speaker001:] She was falling down and hemorrhaging and, you know, all kinds of physical problems, so it just became too much for me to handle, even though I would have liked to have had her stay, with her health being what it was she couldn't [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] anymore. [speaker002:] Yep, we tried to convince my grandfather to live with us at several points during the last few years of his life, but he was essentially too proud and too independent [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] so that even though his heart was getting incredibly weak and his knees were going bad [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] he lived in his own house as long as he could [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] but he was living alone, had an upstairs apartment, could barely make it up the steps [speaker001:] Oh. [speaker002:] to the top without a great deal of pain, and this, eventually things just went too far [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] and he allowed himself to be put into a nursing home. [speaker001:] Yes, well, I think sometimes when people get to be a certain age, other people have to kind of help them make decisions. It sure wouldn't have been Granny's decision to leave us and go back to a nursing home, but she's accepted it real well now [speaker002:] Right [speaker001:] so. [speaker002:] well that's, yeah, that's right that the children have some responsibility, too, to their parents and such, to help decide what's the right thing. [speaker001:] Well, we enjoyed [speaker002:] And. [speaker001:] having her here, but we feel she's much safer where she is now. She still continues to fall, but when she does there, a nurse is right there to help her [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] and I know she's eating the right things, and her doctor's right there where he can come in and check on her, so. It became dangerous for us to keep transporting her back and forth in the car because she was so wobbly and needed a walker or a wheel chair [speaker002:] Yep. [speaker001:] so, I think she'll adjust,

[speaker001:] all right Amy how are you doing today [speaker002:] fine fine [speaker001:] oh all righty I think we know what we're going to speak about um tell you what I'll start off how's that [speaker002:] yeah okay you go ahead [speaker001:] um I personally think to set a mark with the judicial system and we're talking about criminals criminal cases that they should bring back [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] hangings on weekends [speaker002:] in public places [speaker001:] in public places there is one state that does that by the way [speaker002:] yeah really what is that [speaker001:] I want to say Oklahoma I saw report something the other night about it [speaker002:] hm [speaker001:] they don't do them real often which is obviously the death penalty [speaker002:] yeah yeah [speaker001:] um but I think if we quit uh building these Taj Mahals with the color TVs and sixty dollars sixty thousand a year to keep an inmate in there on a on a on a life sentence we should start hanging them and get it over with and let's just screwing up the system uh [speaker002:] yeah well the sentences are so unbelievable I just saw on the news last night that they said the average time a sentenced murderer you know is in jail is two years before he's paroled and a rapists is like six months and a burglar is like two months [speaker001:] that's pathetic that's pathetic it's [speaker002:] because they just say there's either no room in the system you know in the jails for them or you know it's just that it seems like the automatic sentences if if a judge has leeway on what he's going to you know sentence someone for between you know two months and uh fifty years and you know what's his whim to decide it should be two months [speaker001:] this is true and and and and and the way the law reads uh if they sentence you to [speaker002:] you know it's crazy [speaker001:] life in prison then he's available for parole if it's if it's life and a day then he's not eligible for parole so what you know let's quit BSing with the system [speaker002:] yeah well even if it's life like you say we end up spending sixty thousand dollars a year to keep some you know joker in there for life we could spend that money you know for starving children that are starving or twelve million other things would be more useful than that [speaker001:] exactly [speaker002:] so to me if somebody has life you know beyond a reasonable doubt they should that should be it you know particularly for some of these really [speaker001:] a life for a life [speaker002:] I mean there are so many just major major serial murders and it's not just like one instance or something it's just uh horrifying some of the murders that go on [speaker001:] the old Charles Manson case I mean the guy is really [speaker002:] yeah and the yeah there's just everyday you hear on the news of another one like that um [speaker001:] just shouldn't be allowed to to even even live uh about the issue about sentencing by the judge [speaker002:] yeah um-hum [speaker001:] the the judge presently has an opportunity to intervene uh when there's uh my understanding when there's uh a verdict and it for example there's a hung jury here in Fort Worth two day in eight to four and bam bam the guy got off uh he was uh he he was a veterinarian and killed two a father and a son okay [speaker002:] right yeah I heard about that on the news yeah [speaker001:] um kind of gets back to the second request we've been asked to look at is most criminal cases requiring an ananimous verdict the a situation like that I'd say no let's just go like a regular vote eight to four tells me that there were eight there's a percentage certain percentage of the people there with sixty percent of the people uh seventy percent of the people said hey [speaker002:] right rather than have to retrial the whole whole thing and spend all the money for people to you know go back to court and all the lawyers and I mean it just winds up costing the taxpayers a fortune you know a fortune to keep doing that [speaker001:] the guy's guilty exactly [speaker002:] and the victims you know the family of these people that have been murdered they just have to have it dragged on for years and years before they ever get any resolution [speaker001:] exactly because it's not next day they have the start the trial which is X number of months and just prolongs the situation that much more [speaker002:] right yeah yeah [speaker001:] I think that that if it's if it's not a split decision uh go with the highest number and let's just get on with the program [speaker002:] yeah yeah [speaker001:] uh but as far as the sentencing by the judge I would have to vote against that since there's a jury because that's what the juries are for is to make the decision um what are your feelings [speaker002:] yeah yeah well if I I saw on one of the talk shows this woman judge I believe from Florida and she just has just really stiff penalties and I saw that in in the hands of a judge that really was conscientious and really you know took the pains to give a sentence for what was deserved it could you could have a a judge that would really make a good impact but likewise you could have the flip side and have some judge that was paid off or you know had good a good old boy network or for whatever reasons you know politics just let all kinds of people through so he he would have a heck or she would have a heck of a lot of power you know if used wrongly so at least the jury system does something to prevent that you know or help it with it anyway I don't know if it prevents it but seems like the jury system does have it's advantages but I also I've also heard on trials that sometimes they go through like three hundred jurors before they hand pick these jurors that they think are going to be the ones that are going to be the most lenient you know and I don't know how much they're getting just a jury of their peers at that point they're really getting a select group it's not just random people [speaker001:] hm [speaker002:] it almost should be the first twelve people that they you know that have on a list are the ones that are on the jury and that's it [speaker001:] yeah yeah I get back to Price's comment when he uh was found guilty he said well he didn't have any blacks uh you know from his neck of the woods well give me a break you know [speaker002:] you know he'd have to have his whole family up there for him to feel like he's got his peers or something yeah [speaker001:] exactly yeah yeah I mean you're you're in Dallas so everybody I can't believe they can uh like in a murder situations they look for juries who don't know anything about the system well or know anything about the the occurrence you'd have to be pretty dense [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] you'd be in have to be in a cave not to know what's going on or moving it to Lubbock or somewhere possibly is not the answer [speaker002:] yeah oh they'd have to move it to Taiwan for people not to know about it practically [speaker001:] this is true so true well this has been an interesting conversation [speaker002:] yeah yeah well really this is breaks up my afternoon from changing diapers and mopping floors I mean what can I say no I'm at home with two little kids preschoolers my husband works for TI [speaker001:] oh so you're at the house you're not at the plant oh hold it oh that's good that's good I thought I heard a holler there in the background but I wasn't sure [speaker002:] so yeah oh yeah I've got the dog and two kids waiting here I am locked up in the laundry room okay thanks a lot bye-bye [speaker001:] oh goodness well I'll let you get I enjoyed it bye

[speaker001:] what what is do you have a favorite recipe [speaker002:] okay okay um yeah that's what it said to discuss some maybe a recipe well it says why would you what you would have for a dinner party um this is strange because I pressed one and I thought it said begin [speaker001:] oh [speaker002:] okay maybe maybe we're all set okay we'll talk for five minutes they interrupt at the end um yeah it says what you would have for a dinner party I just happen to plan one out for Saturday I'll tell you what I'm going to have um [speaker001:] oh that's wonderful okay [speaker002:] I can find it well I have this new fondue pot and I was going to do basic cheese fondue and I have two different kinds of breads and some ham and I was going to try something weird which you know when you have fish au gratin I was going to make some uh like fish chunks and dip it in the fondue I don't know if it will come out [speaker001:] that's what kind of fondue the cheese dip or [speaker002:] yeah the cheese fondue I make some people like Swiss um I prefer cheddar and I'll mix I won't make I won't have a sharp cheddar because for fondue I think it should be a little calmer than real sharp cheddar and then I was going to make other things like potato skins [speaker001:] right yeah oh that sounds good [speaker002:] it see you don't necessarily have to dip this stuff and um I was going to have broccoli and cauliflower for a a vegetable [speaker001:] that's always a good thing vegetable trays always go over so well because I think people get tired of eating junk I mean I think they like to have healthy stuff too you know it's [speaker002:] oh yeah it's amazing how vegetables trays will go at a party [speaker001:] oh definitely I think better even than than other kinds of food [speaker002:] uh yeah instead of something greasy or [speaker001:] right exactly yeah [speaker002:] uh uh no um my uh girlfriend's do catering and they always about every party they do is they have a vegetable tray I think they try and suggest it [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] what I've been doing when I get invited someplace and bring something I make uh food kebabs You take little toothpicks and cut up uh pineapple and strawberry [speaker001:] oh yes [speaker002:] even banana if you can do it just before you leave it stays nice and fresh [speaker001:] right right that's true or even have you ever seen where they they'll take a watermelon and just cut the top out of it and then hollow that out and then put the fruit in the watermelon that is really neat I beat yep [speaker002:] yeah yeah I like those um they they made a couple of those uh they made one for my uh bridal shower and I was pretty pleased I never made one for myself though but they look easy enough to make it's not [speaker001:] oh I think it would it would be a lot of work but um you know because it's you know you have to cut each thing or you know use the melon baler and stuff but but I think they're really neat and you know I think they're worth the time [speaker002:] yeah yeah you probably get this probably pretty sticky after you get done then you've got to drain the water out of the watermelon because you know when you scrape it it makes the water [speaker001:] because they oh yeah right yeah [speaker002:] yeah um something I do is a fruit is I'll get um make chocolate sauce and dip strawberries and bananas in them yeah I have two nieces and they they they go melt some chocolate chips go buy me some strawberries [speaker001:] is that is that good you know I've seen that so many times strawberries dipped in chocolate but I've never tried it are they really good [speaker002:] yeah they're you know if you get a sweet strawberry they're much better but if you get a sour strawberry [speaker001:] oh I bet it doesn't mix well does it [speaker002:] huh yeah no they um the strawberries are coming in season now from they're they're coming up from Florida of course I live in Vermont so but they're really reasonably priced they're coming up from Florida so [speaker001:] oh well that's good because I know they've been really expensive lately because they weren't in season of course they had to be be uh grown in greenhouses and stuff and in [speaker002:] yeah yeah I think the uh actually I think they get um some of them from South America [speaker001:] oh is that right [speaker002:] yep they a lot of um of a um winter produce comes from South America of course their seasons are switched [speaker001:] oh I guess I didn't really uh-huh right [speaker002:] so um do you want to discuss your recipe I have a recipe if you want um it filled [speaker001:] well okay sure sure [speaker002:] a lot of people try to stay away from this but I make my own homemade pudding just because I don't like box pudding yeah it and it if you um well first of all I [speaker001:] is that right I've never heard of that [speaker002:] take about a quarter and a half of milk and I put it in a two quart saucepan and you put it on a really low heat [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] and you want to use one of your good sauce pans that dissipate the heat because it it ends up burning I mean no matter how careful you are you still might get a film on the bottom of the pot I don't let that worry me and I get the milk lukewarm and then I pour about a half a cup of cornstarch in it and I have this thing it's called the slender blender [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] it it makes the uh it makes uh a whip topping out of milk if you get the milk cold enough it's uh I don't know they're called moogoo leaves or something they're [speaker001:] I think I know what you're talking is it like a hand held thing yeah okay [speaker002:] yeah they're real neat I think they're real reasonably priced some of them they used to be a hundred dollars and they used to whip skim milk into a dessert but I didn't get that one I got the Black and Decker kind but uh it's real handy because it doesn't have a cord and you beat this cornstarch right into the milk the milk you know and it does an excellent job or just hand beat it I guess you could use a hand mixer but I don't think it pure I don't think it gets it good enough and then before the milk gets too hot um I add two beaten eggs and I really mix them in good and then about a half a cup of sugar [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] and I let it pretty much I beat it like every minute for about ten seconds and it's it starts thickening when it thickens the cornstarch might get a little I don't know it gets like little globs of this rubbery cornstarch and you just keep beating it in and it's the the trick is is to have this blender [speaker001:] oh huh [speaker002:] so if you were you'd have to probably almost go out and someone who's just going to make it first time it's you'll have much better luck if you had one of these little blenders [speaker001:] huh [speaker002:] and then you can add cocoa powder to it to make chocolate or after it's thickened I cook it for a good once it starts boiling I just I cook it for a good seven minutes [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] seven to ten minutes and then you can make chocolate or you can take it off and when it cools a little you put um really good vanilla favoring in it and some butter and that makes French vanilla um custard [speaker001:] oh wow that is really interesting are you saying to use like um for chocolate like unsweetened unsweetened [speaker002:] yeah a chocolate powder yeah that cocoa yeah the unsweetened it comes in like a real dark can our mothers used to use it and then [speaker001:] yeah right I have some I just want [speaker002:] yeah we all used to yeah it's the unsweetened kind it's not like Nestle Quik I suppose you could use that I yeah but um [speaker001:] right okay cooking chocolate that's really interesting I've never heard of anybody making their own pudding before that's really neat [speaker002:] I well I used to make the regular pudding the chocolate and put it in the pie shell and if it would sit in the refrigerator for a day where you cut the pie it would soak into the pie shell and it was like red and I'm like oh this is kind of groedy [speaker001:] well how did you get a recipe for pudding on your own [speaker002:] um no actually I found it in one of my mother's um homemade cookbooks I mean something she had collected out of Woman's Day or something [speaker001:] is that right oh neat that is just really neat because I [speaker002:] so I think you couldn't make it with a hand whisk or or a regular beater but um [speaker001:] it would probably be a lot more work and probably not turn out as good [speaker002:] yeah but I still think a beater would do it good enough um the trick is to get the cornstarch [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] um yeah right in the in the lukewarm milk sometimes I put the cornstarch in a separate bowl and I would put it in the sink and I'll take my lukewarm milk and put it in the cornstarch and beat it good it seems to be better than putting the the cornstarch into the liquid it once it hits the top of the liquid it seems to make little balls and stuff on the top [speaker001:] so you put the milk in the cornstarch [speaker002:] yeah and I'll do this uh sometimes I'll put my after I pour that into my back into my saucepan I'll put the eggs in the same dish and beat them up and then pour the cornstarch and the milk mixture in the egg so [speaker001:] and then put that back in the saucepan [speaker002:] yep and then you know if you can put your cocoa in with your cornstarch if you wanted to the cocoa even seems to thicken it even more [speaker001:] huh that's [speaker002:] because by the vanilla doesn't seem to thicken as well as the sometimes the cocoa is like my husband really likes it thick he says I can stick the spoon right in this because I'm always worrying it won't firm up because it when you take it out of the saucepan it's like boy I hope this thickens a little more because it's not like real package thick you know when you cook a package it's it's a little less [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] but I put it in a nice glass bowl and um some people don't like that that film on the pudding so you can put uh Saran Wrap over the top [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] and then once the pudding starts cooling it makes little balls of water on the Saran Wrap so when you pull the Saran Wrap back you sort of should be a little careful pull it back and shake the water off the Saran Wrap and I might put it back on but um [speaker001:] do you do you put it in the refrigerator then or you [speaker002:] yeah after well when it starts steaming a lot uh I definitely yeah put it in the refrigerator [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] but um I my father always told me if you put hot food in your refrigerator you're going to make it work too hard that's yeah so that's why I do that [speaker001:] right that's true I knew that yeah yeah [speaker002:] so well I don't know that's my my great hard recipe

[speaker001:] What kind of car would you like to buy next? [speaker002:] Well, I guess Cadillac. I guess that's kind of everybody's dream [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Well, why would that be? [speaker002:] Oh, I guess it's a General Motors product, and I like General Motors because they're made in the United States, and, uh, we've had General Motors for years and have always had real good luck with them. [speaker001:] Okay, well that's good. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] If you had, uh, no financial requirements, if you could buy any car in the entire world, no matter what it cost, what would you buy? [speaker002:] Oh, um, I think I'd still go with the Cadillac. [speaker001:] Do you? [speaker002:] I don't, I don't care about a big fancy, fancy [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Which type of Cadillac, uh, is your favorite? [speaker002:] Oh, I don't know. I guess the Seville, probably or. [speaker001:] The Seville. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] That's a sharp looking car. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] That really is. It, it always has been though. [speaker002:] Yeah, they have been. [speaker001:] You know, it doesn't have the Coup de Ville or the Sedan de Ville squareness. It never really has. It's always had it's own unique look. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] Well, I've always liked [clicking] that. I liked the, the one year they had, a couple years they had where the trunk head would look like belt buckles across the back of it. [speaker002:] Oh, yeah. Right. [speaker001:] I thought, now that looks sharp [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] that looks real sharp. [speaker002:] Well, I think the ones now with all of the, uh, fancy gold lettering [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] and all, you know, I think they're very pretty. And course the top, now the vin-, what is it, a vinyl top, I think those are pretty. [speaker001:] Yeah, and, uh, the, I, I've never really, uh, I've never ridden in one recently, um, but they're supposed to be just real smooth. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] Just a nice comfortable ride. [speaker002:] Yeah, they are, and, uh, they, they're just always, they, they look like they're sturdy [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] you know, they look like they're very sturdy, and [lipsmack] you don't have to worry that much about, [throat clearing] um, getting, you know, hurt like you would in a small one. [speaker001:] Right. Now they've got a unique fa-, uh, feature in them now. If, uh, if you have a front end accident at such a rate of speed, the e-, the engine will actually drop out of the car so that it doesn't come through the, so it doesn't go, it doesn't go through the, you know, into the inside. It'll go underneath the car instead. [speaker002:] Oh, I didn't know that. [speaker001:] So that's, that's a big safety factor they've got in them now. [speaker002:] Yeah, and I suppose they all have the balloons. [speaker001:] The air bags, yeah. [speaker002:] The air bags, yeah. Well. [speaker001:] So, well that's great, that's great, [speaker002:] Yeah, yeah. [speaker001:] So you say you've always have preferred General Motors products. [speaker002:] Yeah, I do. Um, I, I go for things, you know, built in the United States rather than foreign countries. [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] Help our economy and, [speaker001:] What kind of, uh, [throat clearing] General Motors cars have you had in the past? [speaker002:] Mostly Oldsmobiles. [speaker001:] Oldsmobiles. Those are real nice riding cars too. [speaker002:] Oh, yeah. That's what we have now, but of course if I have a choice I'd still have the Cadillac but, uh, [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] I've been very satisfied with the, with the Oldsmobiles. We've driven them for about probably twenty years. [speaker001:] Has that been the Cutlass or the Sierra? [speaker002:] Uh, no, the Ninety-Eight. [speaker001:] The Ninety-Eight, okay. [speaker002:] Uh-huh, yeah. So. [speaker001:] Well, I don't think, uh, let's see, the Ninety-Eight, now that's got that big V eight engine in it, doesn't it, doesn't it? [speaker002:] Well I don't know. The one we have has a six. [speaker001:] Has a little V Six? [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] Okay. [speaker002:] But it's a very good car. It's a [speaker001:] It, [speaker002:] had, not had one minute's problem with it, and I've had, now I have twenty-three thousand miles on it. [speaker001:] Oh, that's great [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] that's great. That's always nice to get, uh, reliability in a product. Especially when you're spending, you know, anywhere from fifteen to twenty-five thousand dollars for, for a single item. [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] You know, you just don't want any hassles [speaker002:] No. [speaker001:] with it. You just, you expect it to do its, its job, and I think a lot of, a lot of car manufacturers don't really keep that into consider-, don't take that into consideration [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] you know. [speaker002:] Yeah, that's true. [speaker001:] They just expect you to buy their product, but that's always been something that's been a key factor in me, is how reliable is this car going to be [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] you know. Price is, is an issue, but it's not the most important issue. [speaker002:] No, it really isn't, because now you can get like five year financing on them {C and [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] so, } um, but I, I, I would go with the General Motors any time. [speaker001:] Well, I've always been a Ford man, myself. [speaker002:] Oh, really. [speaker001:] Yes. [speaker002:] Oh. [speaker001:] But that's all right. [speaker002:] Yeah, well sure. [speaker001:] You know, it's American made too [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] which is good. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] Um, but I, I've, ever since I guess I, I was growing up, my dad's always had Fords, and, uh, well, I grew up in South Dakota. So everybody has a truck [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] and my Ford trucks have just, I've, I've just never had problems with them. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] I honestly think I would die before my truck would, [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] keel over on me. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] So. [speaker002:] Well, I, yeah, those are good products also. Um, let's see,

[speaker001:] [Beep] Well, did you get a chance to watch any of the games? [speaker002:] Uh, no, I, I just kind of, I, I kind of watch them on the news and that's about it. [speaker001:] Oh, okay [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Uh, the, Michael Jordan's on Chicago Bulls isn't he. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] What, did he get hurt last night or, [speaker001:] No, I don't think so because, uh, I saw just a little bit of the game today and he was out there playing. [speaker002:] Oh, okay. [speaker001:] Although, uh, I, what I saw was at the end of the first quarter, I think he only had like eightch-, eight points [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] at the end of the first quarter, they thought that was big news. [speaker002:] Oh, yeah. [speaker001:] So, I don't know, but I don't know who won, and, uh, I don't know, who do you normally pull for, the, the Mavericks or, [speaker002:] No, I kind of feel like the, about the Mavericks the way I do about the Cowboys now. [speaker001:] Oh, yeah? [speaker002:] Yeah. Uh, just all this Roy Tarpley stuff and, and, uh, what is it their, you know, he got, he's in trouble again down in Houston and, and, uh, they said the other night his contract is so big that if anything happens to him, you know, if they don't trade him, they'll have to pay him off, you know. So they're rather have him, except that he gets in trouble all the time and falls off the wagon, and, and, and have some chance of him playing, you know, earning his money. [speaker001:] Oh, jeez. Yeah, because that's just dollars right out of the franchise. [speaker002:] Sure is. [speaker001:] Oh, man. Now I, uh, I, I've always been pulling for the Lakers for a long time. [speaker002:] Oh, yeah. [speaker001:] And, uh, [speaker002:] They're consistent. [speaker001:] not just, not just because they always win, but, uh, when they had, uh, Akeem [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] anybody who was old as that playing that well, you know, I just kind of had to go with them. Now they kind of got caught up with a lot of the other players and, uh, course, uh, all the people that follow the Lakers and everything out there in, in California. Uh, and it also helps when they were winning [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Yeah. Well, they play better as a team than anybody else, seems like. [speaker001:] I was, uh, I always wondered that, you know, I, I will take a look at the individual score, you know, in the individual stance in the N B A [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] and, you know, they, they have in the paper, you know, like fifteen different categories and they'll have, like, a individuals, uh, they'll have the, the highest scorer, the top rebounders, uh, assists, foul shooting percentages and all that, and you go down through and virtually every one of the categories there isn't, uh, a Laker in the top ten usually hardly any, any, anybody in the top twenty except for, like, Magic [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] and, uh, yet the Lakers continue to win. So, you're right, I think they do really play much better as a team than they do, uh, uh, each one, you know, individually at their spot [pause]. But, uh, [speaker002:] Yeah, year in and year out, it's not like they have, you know, [pause] a lot of teams will, will, will win in the playoffs and then the next year they'll be all [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] they'll be too busy doing their endorsements and stuff, to, to concentrate on the game. [speaker001:] Well, I understand that, uh, I guess Boston's really, uh, giving, uh, are, aren't they playing Detroit? [Pause] I think Boston's playing Detroit and I think they're really giving them a run for their money. [speaker002:] Yeah, except Larry Bird's hurt. [speaker001:] Did he get hurt again? [speaker002:] He, his back is bad all the time now, I think. [speaker001:] Yeah, yeah. I tell you what, I guess it's tough to play that many games and still stay healthy. [speaker002:] Yeah, they play two or three times a week. Like, you know, and then they go on road trips and they do the same thing and, and then they, and then they stay out for two or three weeks at a time. So, it really gets, you know, I mean they're sleeping in different bed every night and [speaker001:] Yeah, yeah. [speaker002:] and I imagine that really helps his back. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] He ought to have his own bed come along with him, you know [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. Yeah, he said, he said the other night on the news that he hadn't done any extra shooting for six weeks, so, you know, and he's the one that's always winning the, uh, the, the outside, the three point shot and [speaker001:] Oh, yeah, yeah. [speaker002:] he does that every year. [speaker001:] Yeah, matter of fact, I watched him, uh, on T V, you know, sink, I don't know a, jeez, it was like, uh, uh, thirty five baskets in thirty seconds or something like that from three point range. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] Unbelievable. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Oh, I don't know, did you ever play much basketball? [speaker002:] Not much. Just, uh, just, just playing horse and stuff like that. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] Yeah, because it's, it kind of a violent game. [speaker001:] It really is for a noncontact sport, [speaker002:] And they d-, [speaker001:] quote, unquote. [speaker002:] Yeah, and they don't wear any pads. [speaker001:] Yeah, really [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] I figured, [speaker001:] Some of those guys got pretty funny looking, uh, eye wear. [speaker002:] Yeah. They have to wear goggles because they get hit in the, in the face with elbows all the time. [speaker001:] Man. [speaker002:] Well, it's h-, it's, I was looking in the paper for something on it and here's the top N B A draft prospects and, uh, I mean they're all the size of football players, you know, except they're just taller. [speaker001:] Yeah. Several years ago when I was up in, uh, Cleveland, I was staying at the Marriott and the Cavaliers were playing somebody. I think it was like Utah or somebody like that and, uh, I was down by the pool and there was all these guys standing around about chest deep in water. Now I wear, uh, contacts, and I, I had my glasses on and I went down there and, and just jumped into the water where they were and it went right up over my head and I came up spittering and sputtering for air and they were all the basketball players there to play the Cavaliers [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] they were all like, uh, like six eight and, uh, you know, six ten, and they were standing in water that was like six foot, [speaker002:] Six foot, yeah. [speaker001:] you know, and it was, uh, it was funny, I tell you. I saw, I saw a guy, I don't remember what his name was, but he got on the elevator and he had his swimsuit on and, uh, he was just skin and bones, you know, it looked like something out of Africa [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] and, uh, [LAUGHTER] I made some comment and, uh, he says, yeah, he says I weigh about, uh, uh, two hundred and forty pounds [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] but he says it's not much when you stretch it over seven foot one. [speaker002:] Yeah, really. [speaker001:] So, you're right, those guys really, you know, the, the big ones, I don't even know how much Ewing weighs. But, uh, he's got to be way up there. [speaker002:] Oh, yeah. Well, here's a, here's a guy from L S U, Stanley Roberts, he's seven feet tall and he weighs two hundred and eighty pounds. So, [speaker001:] God. That's a, that's a lot [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] That's a lot of, a lot of guy coming down on you. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] Jeez. I didn't even see, who's, who's supposed to have the, the, uh, the best, uh, draft picks? [speaker002:] [Pause] [NOISE] [shuffling papers] It doesn't even say. It doesn't say, here it says, uh, it says the under-, this is for underclassmen for June twenty-six [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] and, uh, I guess, I guess they don't, they have, they, they, uh, have a lottery on it. They pick numbers and that's how they take them in order. [speaker001:] Oh, yeah? [speaker002:] It must not be according to their, how they did during the year. [speaker001:] I used to go down to Reunion Arena, uh, went down there a couple years on the day of the draft [speaker002:] Uh-uh. [speaker001:] and that was really pretty interesting. They usually have, uh, uh, you know, a video, uh, highlights of the season, you know, and basically kind of walks you through what happened to the Mavs and who they traded for and how they did and a lot of good footage, both the good and the bad [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] I, I don't know, I haven't, I didn't go down there last year, but, uh, it, it was only like a couple dollars to get in and it was really kind of interesting [pause]. But, uh, so who do you thinks going to win the playoffs? [speaker002:] I don't know, who's going, is it Chicago and, [speaker001:] Chicago, uh, and, let's see, uh, Golden State and the Lakers and, Chicago and Philadelphia, think Chicago's playing Philadelphia and then the, uh, shoot, I can't remember them all now. [speaker002:] Utah, Portland, Boston and Detroit. [speaker001:] Right. Yeah, yeah. [speaker002:] Okay. That's the N B A? [speaker001:] N B A playoffs, Philadelphia was, uh, favored by one point over Chicago and the Lakers one point over Golden State, and Detroit by five over, uh, Boston [pause]. Jeez. [speaker002:] I think Boston, Boston will win. [speaker001:] Think so? [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] I tell you what, those guys really hang tough. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] Now, I, I'd like to see them back up there again. They really, uh, they really gave some, some really good years of, uh, uh, of enjoyment and fun and everything. Have you ever been up there to Boston Garden? [speaker002:] Oh, no, uh, [speaker001:] Well, I don't know is that in, I, I haven't really gone to a lot of games live, but boy I'd sure like to. Basketball's gotten to be a lot of fun. [speaker002:] Uh-huh.

[speaker001:] I don't know about you but I haven't had any trouble having any fun on vacation I can't think of any place I wouldn't want to go to take one [speaker002:] um well where are some of the places you've been [speaker001:] oh I know a real good place is Virginia it's real nice it has mountains beach whatever you want [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] have you been in any great places lately [speaker002:] well I've been a lot of different places uh Hawaii Japan Europe [speaker001:] oh now I haven't been there [speaker002:] and and most of the fifty I haven't been to Alaska yet [speaker001:] yeah oh really you plan on going [speaker002:] yeah I thought we might go up on the uh inland ferry that goes up there from uh from British [speaker001:] oh yeah now I'd like to go uh to Canada on the boat [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] my parents went not long ago or to Key West have you ever been to Key West [speaker002:] yes [speaker001:] is it pretty [speaker002:] oh yeah it's a long desolate stretch but well desolate in that it's all uh the same scenery after a while just like driving in the desert you know after a while it all looks the same [speaker001:] oh really oh no no I've never been huh is it very expensive [speaker002:] huh no no [speaker001:] not compared to Hawaii huh [speaker002:] well actually Hawaii is getting cheap too because uh [speaker001:] really [speaker002:] with the economic uh situation uh situation we're in they've lowered the prices uh quite a bit [speaker001:] well that's nice to know well that's good [speaker002:] where do you stay when you go to Virginia on the beach [speaker001:] um yeah I've been to Virginia Beach and I've been up to the uh homestead in hot springs in the mountains it's real nice [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] and uh oh let's see I've been to Charlottesville through Monticello uh my husband's a a landscape architect and he uh he really liked that and to see Thomas Jefferson's home [speaker002:] uh-huh yeah I bet well if he's a landscape architect he ought to like Washington DC in the daylight hours [speaker001:] yeah now we we went there went there to stay at the Army Navy club with my dad and that was real nice that was real nice [speaker002:] your dad's in the military [speaker001:] uh no he used to be he he's a retired attorney now uh but he was the uh he was uh uh [speaker002:] retired retired [speaker001:] in the reserves for quite a long time and uh he's active in something right now I forgot what it is that's how close I am no I don't mean that but um I he's somehow connected still with it [speaker002:] well being from uh living in Texas you probably like cool weather on your uh vacations at least we do [speaker001:] yeah sometimes sometimes you know when it in when it's getting really hot in Texas you know you want to go someplace cool [speaker002:] uh yeah well usually vacation time July August September it's time to go somewhere else [speaker001:] yeah have you ever been to Arkansas [speaker002:] oh yeah [speaker001:] now I've I've been but not to way up at near Branson oh I hear it's just booming up there now [speaker002:] um yeah [speaker001:] up around Silver Silver Silver Dollar City have you been there [speaker002:] no no I haven't [speaker001:] I heard on uh what was it Sixty Minutes or something a lot of the country western um people are starting to build their nightclubs up there [speaker002:] yeah I saw the Sixty Sixty Minutes also last year we went to uh the Oregon coast and and that is really beautiful [speaker001:] yeah oh really really [speaker002:] and that is really beautiful and it's also unlike California completely because it's cool enough that you don't have uh the surfers much because they need protective clothing you know [speaker001:] how about population is it very uh crowded [speaker002:] and and uh there's really uh several nice places to stay along the coast there we stayed at what was called the uh kite capital of the world what was the name of that city place [speaker001:] hum [speaker002:] Lincoln City [speaker001:] oh [speaker002:] and it is really nice uh we a very nice place on the beach and very reasonably priced compared to California particularly [speaker001:] oh I bet really I bet but but it's not as crowded either [speaker002:] so in fact most of the that's right most of the Californians that uh want to stay on the coast apparently the families and so forth they come up to Oregon and Washington coast to stay because it's much uh more economical [speaker001:] huh yeah I'd like to go up around Washington sometime to see [speaker002:] yeah we've we've been up that way and well this that trip we also went to uh Vancouver and out to uh Victoria which is very nice [speaker001:] yeah well I think the furthest west I've ever gotten is the Grand Canyon [speaker002:] well you got you haven't been to California either then [speaker001:] no huh-uh no [speaker002:] well if you go to California don't go to Los Angeles unless you really want to just see the movie stars set up and so forth [speaker001:] oh I won't no no no [speaker002:] but uh San Diego and San Francisco are both very nice right [speaker001:] really I know my grandparents have been to San Francisco years ago and they said it was real nice

[speaker001:] so have you done any painting projects lately [speaker002:] yeah this is a great topic for me because I just did my first two painting projects ever it was not not a big deal [speaker001:] oh really what kind of painting was it [speaker002:] two little deals the first one um I helped someone repaint an apartment and it was very easy [speaker001:] uh-huh it was it [speaker002:] yeah and I've never painted anything I always thought it would be so you know you'd have to hire someone if you needed to paint inside your house or something but I know I can do it and the second one was I bought some toys at a um [speaker001:] yeah oh huh [speaker002:] at a craft fair they're unfinished wooden book ends and stuff for a a little girl for Christmas and so I just decided to paint them and that wasn't as easy as painting the apartment was [speaker001:] uh-huh oh well what kind of paint did you use for the um bookends [speaker002:] well it's uh it that's half the problem right there is that it wasn't it was a oil base so I had to get and when I painted them I didn't realize that we didn't have any uh turpentine or paint thinner or anything in the house so I had it had it all over my hands at first I didn't realize you know I had never painted anything so I didn't realize that I needed that I mean I kind of knew in the back of my mind [speaker001:] uh-huh so you can't use oil on wood [speaker002:] well no you can use it on wood but I just had it all over my hands and I went to wash the brushes out and uh wash my hands and you can't wash it off with water you have to get the uh a solution [speaker001:] oh so you had to go around with paint all over you temporarily anyway [speaker002:] and yeah I had to drive to the store yeah I had to drive to the store with paper towels all over my hands to go buy some paint thinner and right back and everything like that and then um [speaker001:] oh [speaker002:] uh downstairs in the in the apartment I just used we just used a latex base and so you can drip it on you know if you dripped it on something as long as you wiped it up it was real easy to clean up [speaker001:] oh is that what you usually use in the house is latex [speaker002:] yeah and and it it just like the same with the toys it's just important to look for one that doesn't have lead in it you know it says safe for children and all that [speaker001:] hm uh-huh yeah heard about that I guess a friend of mine had a uh um well she she just started up a day care center and uh and the one of the real strict uh restrictions was the fact that she had to have a special kind of paint that was fire proof and lead free and all that other good stuff [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] so uh she had that done but uh [speaker002:] have you painted anything recently [speaker001:] well um so to speak I had to paint this uh the inside of this warehouse thing uh that you keep some um farm equipment in [speaker002:] wow was it huge uh-huh [speaker001:] and um what I had to do is just coat this bare wood with a sealer and uh I had this big five gallon jug and it was like paint thinner I mean I you know it looked just like it was the viscosity of paint thinner [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] but uh you just took a roller and put it on there and uh if you saw that the wood was getting wet you know that was that was all you needed so [speaker002:] wow [speaker001:] yeah it was it used all of it I guess it was about three hundred yards worth so well I guess it worked out it was pretty easy actually [speaker002:] yeah I think though um we're lucky that we didn't have to do any detail work because I don't know if I could you know I don't know I don't know must be difficult [speaker001:] well what about the trim in your house did you have to do that [speaker002:] no it was just it was really easy I just like what I we had a couple of different size brushes and it was [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] you know real easy I went around the trim and if it and there was wallpaper like I was doing just doing just the trim of the around the doors and windows and there was wallpaper and [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] if we got it on the wallpaper a little bit we just wipe it right away before it dried it came right off so there was no major mistakes there was [speaker001:] oh yeah did you have uh one coat or two [speaker002:] uh two actually um and it there was um you know around the windows if you got it on the glass we let it dry and scraped it after that but that [speaker001:] um-hum yeah that would be really time a a time saver [speaker002:] well yeah if you just you know we didn't tape anything we weren't that careful but it wasn't you know I don't know it's it's funny it's like if you just go slow you don't get or at least I didn't get that many mistakes I didn't make that many mistakes [speaker001:] um-hum oh me I would've had to have taped the whole thing and then brushed around the edges and and then I'd have probably rolled it on I'd uh it would've taken me forever [speaker002:] why just because you'd be afraid to do it or have you done it before [speaker001:] yeah well the first time it'd probably would've tooken me forever so [speaker002:] well it wasn't if it was my own I would've but my friend said oh just go ahead you just go ahead it's easy I said okay it's your place [speaker001:] well how long did it take y'all [speaker002:] well a couple of weekends we would go down two or three hours on the weekends and [speaker001:] um-hum so there was two of y'all [speaker002:] no there was they were doing all sorts of repairs and there was I was just painting because I don't know how to do anything else so there's a whole bunch of people yeah [speaker001:] well that's easy enough um [speaker002:] so now I feel like if I ever buy a house I can probably paint if nothing else [speaker001:] I think I could probably do it uh as long as the hardware store told me what to buy then I could do it [speaker002:] yeah but you know I went in to a hardware store to get paint for those toys and the guy said oh get this it's a nice shiny gloss which was true but I didn't realize what you know a pain it is to clean the brushes and everything if you don't have latex I don't know if it's worth the shine [speaker001:] um-hum

[speaker001:] um I think life uh now I grew up on a farm I don't what kind did you grow up in the farm [speaker002:] I grew up in um well at that time I was in a uh Trenton New Jersey so and it was a suburb of Trenton so I really had mixture of suburb and urban living [speaker001:] uh-huh I see I see well little little bit different I think though it was much slower and uh [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] much much more self-contained [speaker002:] I think you're right it's interesting I'm um I work in a high school [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] so uh I'm comparing my life when I was in high school thirty years ago to what I see these children doing [speaker001:] yes [speaker002:] and the pressures on the children uh you know you hear this as an excuse but it's true they are so much greater [speaker001:] unreal unreal by comparison [speaker002:] oh I cannot believe uh what they're doing uh academically the demands on them and uh and I can see why children do drop out [speaker001:] yeah I think that's right I I can remember as a child you know nobody ever worried about me wondering out at night and going where I wanted to go [speaker002:] I can see I can see uh you know uh-huh uh-huh [speaker001:] it wasn't it didn't occur to nobody to worry that anything would happen to me they were [speaker002:] and then you didn't you didn't have to lock your door [speaker001:] no no [speaker002:] and uh a live and some of these are urban worries but uh it's uh it's a lot different all though I guess twenty years a go now in this area things were um similar because twenty years ago let's see it was after [speaker001:] it's not all that long ago is it [speaker002:] yeah twenty twenty five years ago is when we had the Washington riots the first rights we've been having some problem now and it reminded me of that [speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh yeah we were living in New Jersey [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] uh in uh twenty years ago [speaker002:] whereabouts [speaker001:] uh in uh Allendal [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] and uh I use to have to go over to Patterson when those riots were going on at sometimes um [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] I don't know though it's it's kind of hard to really know because of though the news media had those riots uh kind of blown up out of proportion [speaker002:] uh-huh well the Washington riots weren't because [speaker001:] because I went there many times and I never I never saw a riot [speaker002:] the Washington riots weren't because I lived right downtown Washington and uh and what you saw is was what you got I'm telling you [speaker001:] did you that's what yeah well huh [speaker002:] yeah but you know it's it is interesting uh they're so many more they're different kind of dangers that face young people now and social pressures uh the pressures of drug is so much the prevalence is so much greater the the kinds of diseases that you've got out the [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] uh I mean the consequences is so much what's going on is so much more serious [speaker001:] yeah I think that's true I think that's true [speaker002:] then when we were younger [speaker001:] I think the other thing is that uh we have taken some rather drastic turns in our in our education and the way we approach things as of maybe starting back when when I'm number one you know and uh uh uh worrying about the self and not uh seeing the consequences of the disintegration of the family [speaker002:] uh-huh uh-huh [speaker001:] and uh and there have been many things that have happened that have not encouraged uh closeness of families and uh support for young people that the kind of support that they need to help them take care of the things if you don't have some kind of [speaker002:] yes and [speaker001:] of basic belief or something down inside of you then it's very difficult to [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] uh to have anything to turn to when you got when you've got something facing you like that [speaker002:] that's true I also being involved in the school system see so many of problem children coming from their parents um children who will lie and cheat and you approach their parents and their parents are constantly justify them rather than to [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] uh you know they're constantly uh uh excusing their child and you can see exactly why the child is that way you can as a teacher can't hold a child accountable [speaker001:] like right now exactly yeah [speaker002:] if you're not going to get reinforced by that at home [speaker001:] that's right that's right [speaker002:] and you can't make up in a classroom of one hour a day what's not been done for fifteen or sixteen years at home [speaker001:] no that's right oh [speaker002:] and you're get you get mixed signals so it's it's not always the school's systems I think a lot of it is the families and [speaker001:] no there's so much more then that it starts very much deeper then that I think that too I see some flickers of [speaker002:] the way you were mentioning yeah yeah [speaker001:] of uh of good directions turning but whether they're soon enough and fast enough I don't know it's just [speaker002:] course life is a lot more complicated too in ways um the kinds of jobs that people need to be trained for now [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] uh you know with farming being so mechanized uh people working on the family farm which was a traditional American way [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] if that uh becomes less and less likely factory jobs are so much more um uh sophisticated [speaker001:] yeah that's right [speaker002:] and the kinds of knowledge that uh you know it it's requiring an increasingly sophisticated labor force and some people just don't have it it's uh [speaker001:] right and there's so much so so many people on the lower end of those who who are going to be the the drop outs and the [speaker002:] and you worry with you know the effects of [speaker001:] and the poor and the homeless and whatnot [speaker002:] the effect of drugs on the young children and the unborn children uh in terms of what it's going to mean to a society in the future it's a some ways it's rather frightening rather [speaker001:] yeah that's just another yeah it really is it's just it it just is almost overwhelming sometimes when you think of [speaker002:] it certainly is [speaker001:] of the jobs that is out there to be done [speaker002:] well it sure is [speaker001:] in order to flip things back around the way they needed to be [speaker002:] it sure is [speaker001:] uh not that I really think that they were perfect ten twenty or thirty years ago but [speaker002:] it was a little easier though wasn't it [speaker001:] uh yeah just the volume makes a big difference I [speaker002:] that's yes [speaker001:] as uh as uh mother you know I use to think sometimes it's not so much uh it's not so much the kids it's just the volume of it to try to keep all wash done and all the things done and you know and everything [speaker002:] yeah and they all the things demanded of the mother too I mean uh I look at my mother's life uh [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] I mean she she didn't work um um for a long time uh when I was very young she didn't drive uh she learned to drive I think when I was um a teenager and her life was a lot simpler and I [speaker001:] right and and and children's lives were simpler because mother was there somebody was there [speaker002:] that's right that's right that's right [speaker001:] and and when there's nobody there I always thought too that you know people worrying about going to work when their child when their children are little and I and I think that's sad if they have to because they miss so much but I I believed after having a few teenagers that the worst time you could go to go work was when they were teenagers [speaker002:] they need you more as a teenager isn't that true that's why I'm working in a school system so that I'm home when they're home um [speaker001:] right it's not so much that they come to you every minute but it's that you are there when they need you [speaker002:] that's exactly isn't that that's so true uh uh I find working in a high school [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] it's very helpful because it let's me be a little more tolerant and understanding of what people do [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] and it keeps me from being the old foggy but at the same time it also it prevents kids from try to go pull the wool over your eyes [speaker001:] yeah yes I think that's true [speaker002:] as to what's come but that's the same I'm home at the summers I'm home with the holidays [speaker001:] yeah that's [speaker002:] I'm home at three o'clock when the children are at home or where home one is now a senior in high school and the other's in college [speaker001:] yeah well [speaker002:] and uh it's uh it does it [speaker001:] but that helps a lot I have a daughter who just uh had a second job she needed need to work and she opted to go into a day care center where she could take her children with her [speaker002:] uh-huh uh-huh [speaker001:] and uh and looked a long time before she found one that was laid back enough so they she would be able to interact with them and uh [speaker002:] that's right [speaker001:] and felt like they were getting you know uh a good kind of experience as well [speaker002:] well I'm [speaker001:] but uh I think that's really important I don't think people realize how important it is [speaker002:] that's that is that is so true and it's not that always that the children always say something but every once in awhile they'll come up and make a comment [speaker001:] yeah you yeah [speaker002:] and you realize uh it's important that and and yet you know we have to make that choice I think um twenty thirty years ago a lot of women didn't have to make that choice [speaker001:] yeah yeah I think that's right what was what is your name again [speaker002:] well Linda Lee uh-huh [speaker001:] Linda okay [speaker002:] and your name was [speaker001:] well I think probably that we've just about I don't haven't change the world but [speaker002:] well I enjoyed talking with you well I enjoyed talking with you [speaker001:] yes it's nice talking to you too bye now [speaker002:] okay bye-bye [speaker001:] uh-hum

[speaker001:] uh what do you [speaker002:] how do you feel about it [speaker001:] well I don't know I would hate I would rather not have to have it all taken out but I kind of feel like it's part of living in a free country but it seems like they take quite a bit out [speaker002:] uh I'm a tax lawyer and uh I uh [speaker001:] oh yeah [speaker002:] but I agree with you I uh [speaker001:] yeah you probably know like I say you're a lot more knowledgeable about it than I am but do you do for corporations or mainly [speaker002:] I um-hum yeah corporations I work for a bank [speaker001:] yeah oh do you oh [speaker002:] yeah and uh and [speaker001:] so what what do they think the corporation you work with [speaker002:] um well banks banks are regulated of course by the uh by the federal government anyway so [speaker001:] yeah uh-huh [speaker002:] we don't have the franchise taxes which are are not federal taxes uh [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] I don't know I I think they I don't hear anything at work about them really [speaker001:] yeah well I tell you I I work for a credit union so that might be a whole another topic as far as well you know how do [speaker002:] oh okay [speaker001:] what's the opinion around there about uh you know credit unions not being taxed and stuff do they do have you guys had any I don't want to say battles but do they uh a lot of people around here in Utah and stuff they they claim the unfair unfair uh unfair playing field and whatnot and whether or not credit unions are getting you know being treated special and do they get [speaker002:] we've had that too because of the failures though [speaker001:] oh yeah [speaker002:] and uh whether or not they should be assessed more [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] and uh the the state has uh has uh is in the midst of a reform probably in that area [speaker001:] it's where they're going to tax credit unions on a state level or or just assess their more for the insurance fund [speaker002:] or or higher assessment to yeah right [speaker001:] huh yeah it's uh I don't know I want I think I've always felt that if we credit unions stick to their little niche they have that then it probably shouldn't be but it seems like more and more uh we're getting out into a lot of the bank territories I do not know if it is too fair or not [speaker002:] uh I don't know that it is fair I think that it's you know the way banking is being uh compacted I work for at Nations Bank which has just merged with C and S Sovran [speaker001:] yeah yeah oh yeah [speaker002:] and uh you know I think I think a little competition is good [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] uh [speaker001:] but [speaker002:] but down here a lot we saw we say them doing things they shouldn't be doing [speaker001:] yeah they getting into business lending and things like that or yeah I the credit union I work for is one of the top the twenty uh about the fifteenth largest and we are starting to get into that and that is where I really have my questions as to whether or not we're [speaker002:] yeah real estate [speaker001:] you know if they were able were playing on a level field whereas the banks are getting taxed and stuff [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] and I don't know what the corporate taxes are as far as how much they get taxed but I mean I know it would have to it would definitely have to effect our bottom line if we got taxed there's no doubt about it [speaker002:] everybody's gone down I think the individual levels are fine [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] uh I don't think they're perceived as uh was I learned in school if you taxed a hundred percent of the income of people that made over a hundred thousand dollars you know [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] uh we wouldn't reduce the deficit by [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] but but a drop in the bucket because there are such few people that do that [speaker001:] yeah well what do you have have you ever studied I guess anything about a flat tax or anything like that I mean we've talked about it and how it kind be kind of a recessive tax for the poor or [speaker002:] well that's what sales tax are [speaker001:] yeah that's true but I mean on more of a national level I guess it seems like it might uh get rid of a lot of the problems as far as the loop holes and stuff but maybe just have it based on two or three different level and eliminate a lot of the exemptions and stuff is that [speaker002:] that uh flat taxes I think are a pretty good idea uh they're debating of course right now whether to bring in capital gains again uh to stimulate the economy [speaker001:] uh-huh yeah [speaker002:] and uh find from what I from what I recall it doesn't stimulate the economy that much it just uh boots everybody's feeling about stimulating the economy [speaker001:] yeah that's more or less touchy-feely thing as opposed to [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] yeah I just always heard that the poor would end end up taking the worst brunt of it because they're you know their their income is less and yet they're being taxed at the same rate and therefore it hurts their spending power but you know I've heard different ideas to where they will make it so that uh you know depending on your income that it'll be maybe a different level of tax but seems like then people would just do whatever they could to hide income so like you say it probably wouldn't do much anyway [speaker002:] the I I what happens is I think it is a good idea but they chip away at it I mean the home mortgage deduction is like sacrosanct [speaker001:] um-hum yeah that's true [speaker002:] you can't take away people that said there you go you've got one exception already and uh and uh it you know well if we didn't have this exception then we'll just add this one and it just gets it snowballs [speaker001:] yeah that's true yeah uh-huh [speaker002:] I I think it is in theory probably a good idea [speaker001:] well uh are the taxes in in Texas are they are few state taxes very high or [speaker002:] we don't have state income tax [speaker001:] oh don't you oh that's sweet [speaker002:] none but we've got an eight percent state sales tax [speaker001:] oh that hurts [speaker002:] yeah and uh you know course that's that's a regressive tax [speaker001:] yeah it is [speaker002:] and it's you know uh uh it's not on grocery

[speaker001:] okay [speaker002:] um well I guess first of all I I could have asked that before do you have children [speaker001:] no [speaker002:] no okay because I I didn't know if that would make a difference in how you felt um what what do you think about the proposal that all young Americans should spend a year or two [speaker001:] yeah I think it's a good idea I think everybody should should uh put in their time so to speak for the for the good of the the nation and for the good of themselves I think it's uh would everyone everyone grow up and mature and and realize what this country's all about [speaker002:] yeah I just um I guess that's my that's something that my family has always believed strongly in and um I had opportunities in high school to work in some programs um [speaker001:] did you oh [speaker002:] and and I agree with what you said that it's uh it benefits the person doing it so much I don't think they realize and I uh [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] I I think it gives you a better perspective on life and uh it gives you a little bit uh more a glimpse of the the real world and and it would certainly help the country too uh [speaker001:] yeah really yeah I think that's probably like uh quite a few things that that the kids uh maybe not so much nowadays but used to go through you know they just they were they did things for people [speaker002:] yeah yes [speaker001:] you know for their communities for their their uh families for their friends where now I'm not sure they really do [speaker002:] yeah well I think sometimes through groups and organizations um my first when I first thought of it I thought it uh when they asked the question I thought well that sounds wonderful and then I wondered if people were unwilling but but I think even if you went in with a negative attitude I don't think it would stay negative very long um but I do know through some organized groups like Scouts and church um [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] they do still have opportunities [speaker001:] yeah that's probably true [speaker002:] but I I think that's a small uh number that could [speaker001:] you know but even even through those groups groups do you think that they participate as much as maybe they used to [speaker002:] no um not since um not as much as I remember growing up and that was something uh I think in the fifties and sixties um seemed more common in the last two decades [speaker001:] um-hum yeah I think that's probably true [speaker002:] but [speaker001:] I think it's probably more true still still in the in the smaller communities then in the larger cities [speaker002:] yes yeah where uh where abouts do you live what part of the country [speaker001:] well I live in Richardson right now which is just [speaker002:] oh okay we're in Plano so we're not far apart one of the calls I'd gotten before was uh down to Austin and and I know [speaker001:] right yeah okay sure [speaker002:] a friend of mine talked to someone in the midwest so I know there is the possibility that it could be out of the area [speaker001:] yeah gosh I hadn't even thought about it being out of the area but you're right yeah but I grew up in a real small town in Florida [speaker002:] oh [speaker001:] I mean a real small town and uh I think it was just of course it was back in the in the fifties and I think it was real prevalent back then I I think people thought more of others than they do now you know [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] as far as doing things for them and and then gaining benefits from it [speaker002:] well and maybe um maybe this would be a way to get that feeling back um if we've lost some of that and it it seems in the last decade or two um that's true maybe that's a way if if young people had to do it um [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] maybe that would start the trend back because that's one of the things I always thought was a wonderful part of our country um [speaker001:] yeah I do to I do to [speaker002:] is helping others [speaker001:] I'm not sure that that today's kids would go for it though I think you would have to start younger [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] you know I I don't know how young you'd have to go but I think by the time they're oh early teenagers anyway I think it's too late now at least around here um [speaker002:] yeah I think uh I think it does help um even preschoolers you know they're um things even just starting around the home you know little ones can do a little bit to help the family [speaker001:] right um-hum [speaker002:] and and just watching the parents do things too um it can start a pattern there's always something no matter how young and then that helps develop that attitude um I guess I would really like to see this happen with families more you know I think this is certainly a possible way um to handle it but I wish ah that's something that I think that has been lost in families and I think that's a good place to start again [speaker001:] uh yeah I would have to start in the families first because if you don't it for your for your own immediate family your sure not going to do it for anybody else [speaker002:] yeah and I do think um the schools do try and do something even with food drives and um sometimes what Richardson and Plano both I mean when you live in areas like that where there's so much they don't realize what a small percentage of the world that is I mean that's uh [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] gosh I'm sure not even one percent of the world is as fortunate as these areas and uh [speaker001:] that's probably true that's probably true [speaker002:] it's I know our church youth group um starts with projects young but they they have a high school group that works in the Appalachia area every year they've done this for fourteen years now [speaker001:] um-hum oh that's great [speaker002:] um and it is it's um and they've also see that there's there's a different way of life and those families are really close some of the things that we talked about that were common in the fifties are still there and um [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] it really every youth that's ever gone really has felt that their life has been changed and it's changed their perspective and and that's just the two two weeks during during the summer so if two weeks um could have that kind of effect I would [speaker001:] um-hum well that's that's great I'm glad that there are still some areas that [speaker002:] think uh [speaker001:] that that get the youth involved in that sort of thing you know like I said I think it does [speaker002:] well that's [speaker001:] even even a small amount of exposure can make a vast difference in their attitudes [speaker002:] yes [speaker001:] well [speaker002:] well I guess um did you have anything else that [speaker001:] no I I guess that's about all okay [speaker002:] okay well I I enjoyed talking with you [speaker001:] well good talking with you [speaker002:] and I hope you have a good evening thanks bye bye [speaker001:] you too okay bye

[speaker001:] where'd you go on your last vacation [speaker002:] yes Hot Springs Arkansas oh and it's beautiful it was great in fact we purchased land up there uh-huh yeah it's it's well it's not really time share it's just a lot [speaker001:] hey did you one of those time share things [speaker002:] it's really pretty up there in a place called Hot Springs Village it's [speaker001:] I've seen the flyers on that that please come up and we'll give you a free turkey and a tank of gas or something something [speaker002:] it's it's really nice yeah something like that we got three nights and four days up there so we went it was a nice way to get away [speaker001:] had a guy in Sunday school that went and uh some some place in Oklahoma and they gave him twenty four rib eye steaks [speaker002:] oh what a deal [speaker001:] I said well did you buy anything he said no we just went up and got our steaks I said well [speaker002:] no that's the way to do it you know [speaker001:] well their daughter was on a weekend trip with church and and they said that was the only child they had so they up and they went got steaks and got out of town for a while [speaker002:] might might as well well now we'd we really liked Hot Springs just because we neither of us had ever been there and it was it's a pretty town [speaker001:] kind of retirement village kind of [speaker002:] it's full of I was gonna say it's full of retirees and full of nursing homes and funeral homes but it's still a beautiful area [speaker001:] yes yes yes yeah well you you know you're a true Texan when you go to a funeral and there's more pickups rather than cars [speaker002:] well I wasn't born in Texas but I moved here when I was six months so yeah I I consider myself almost a true Texan [speaker001:] that's awful you you can qualify well my wife was born in Mississippi during World War Two but that only because of the they were called up for duty so well we went to uh Estes Park Colorado last summer [speaker002:] ooh oh oh now that would be nice [speaker001:] which is a uh YMCA uh camp and we rented a cabin and uh a kitchen cabin and and [speaker002:] oh yeah that that's that's the kind of vacations I like to do [speaker001:] and they got all kinds of activities on campus so you just kind of get on there and let the kids go run wild [speaker002:] what is the what kind of a cost do they have uh with that [speaker001:] let's see we had a two bedroom one bath a fully equipped kitchen I mean all you bring is your food they even got coffee grinders and all that stuff [speaker002:] uh-huh um [speaker001:] uh what did we pay uh by the time you get everything on there it was about twenty eight bucks a night [speaker002:] you're kidding oh that'd be wonderful we got to get there first and [speaker001:] no but you well you got to make reservations yeah you got to join the club that's seventy five bucks for two years first then you go through the drawing and uh yeah it it it's you got to [speaker002:] oh okay real expensive here hm [speaker001:] there's more to it than that but but it's really nice and uh [speaker002:] yeah and it's just through the local through the YMCA [speaker001:] uh no you can if you're a member of the local YMCA you don't have to join the club up there [speaker002:] oh okay [speaker001:] they they they somehow will accept that but you got to kick into the Y system to get out [speaker002:] oh well yeah because we're in the the Garland Y [speaker001:] but it it's a lovely place to go if you got kids even if you don't but [speaker002:] so that would come in well yeah we have a two year old and a four year old [speaker001:] well they've got things planned for that age group but it's all extra everything is extra once you get there [speaker002:] well yeah the Colorado Colorado being a resort place I can kind of understand that but that's I love mountains when I went to Utah one time and I was just in heaven [speaker001:] as I say it [speaker002:] we got off the plane at the Air Force base and I was just yeah [speaker001:] we saw the bighorn sheep come down [speaker002:] ooh [speaker001:] well they're Rocky Estes Park is right next to Rocky Mountain National Park [speaker002:] um-hum um-hum [speaker001:] we tried four times and the last time before we came back they were crossing the road and going up the path they're ugly [speaker002:] um oh oh [speaker001:] we saw also saw a real big moose two moose came out of the hills into downtown Estes Park and were eating grass in a vacant lot this isn't little [speaker002:] and you're going we're like in civilization here we're not out in the country oh how funny [speaker001:] we were on a trolley anyway so you enjoyed Hot Springs has gambling casino gambling come to Hot Springs yet [speaker002:] oh um no but they do have hay horse races at the Oaklawn tracks [speaker001:] and bingo I bet you I bet [speaker002:] I don't know about that but I'm sure they do with with the age group that's there [speaker001:] I'm sure [speaker002:] I would imagine they do but I know they have horse tracks that's why and they weren't running while we were there in September but they were doing simulcasts with Louisiana Downs [speaker001:] oh [speaker002:] so they you can if you want to bet and that did draw a big crowd you could bet there year around [speaker001:] legally oh are where are the are [speaker002:] um-hum yeah no uh at the tracks they they they run [speaker001:] I am you can bet in Dallas the year around [speaker002:] well yeah but legally they the horses run there from like February to April so we're planning to be back the middle of February was like I wanna go back but it's it's in the mountains and I really like mountains I keep my husband had never been outside of Texas until he and I got married [speaker001:] yeah huh [speaker002:] and it was like let's go to Florida let's you know let's go to Florida and because we had a friends over there and that's a pretty area too we've been to Orlando a couple of times not to go to Disney World but just to go and do other stuff that's there [speaker001:] if you like cabin cooking your own Robber's Cave State Park in Oklahoma is a neat deal [speaker002:] oh I love it what is where is it [speaker001:] Robber's Cave State Park [speaker002:] oh [speaker001:] it's in Oklahoma about six hours from here [speaker002:] yeah but see I'm a I I'm a Texan I I have a problem with Oklahoma well this is true Robber's Cave State Park [speaker001:] I know I know we don't have mountains in Texas though and they got cabins and kitchen cabins and [speaker002:] yeah see that's my parents go to they have I guess I got the buying land bug from them they've got a piece of property out on uh Lake of the Pines [speaker001:] planned activities

[speaker001:] Okay, so we've got to talk about music. [speaker002:] Okay. [speaker001:] And, um, do you like classic rock, or modern rock, or which kind? [speaker002:] Oh, I guess the stuff [baby crying] that was done more in the seventies, because that's, *slash error [speaker001:] No, not a seventies baby. [speaker002:] Well, no that's really when I grew up, so that's really what I like better, is that kind of music [LAUGHTER], I mean, [speaker001:] Is it disco, or is it like, [speaker002:] No, no, no, not that kind of music [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] but, [speaker002:] No, more like, uh, rock, um, you know, like Led Zepplin type [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Oh, okay. So, so they can get like the Doors and Led Zepplin. [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] Yeah, that's cool. [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] And, how about the Rolling Stones? [speaker002:] Oh, sure, sure I went to their concert last year when they were here. [speaker001:] Oh, that's when, that's when they took, toured. How about, um, Pink Floyd? [speaker002:] Sure, yeah, I like them. [speaker001:] Okay. So, so then we got, we got some same things because, [speaker002:] Okay, well, I just didn't know that much about music and I wasn't sure what kind of music. [speaker001:] No, it's very hard because, see, well, I mean, in the whole spectrum I'd rather listen, you know, I listen to heavy metal or classic rock. [speaker002:] What, what kind of heavy metal are we talking about? What, [speaker001:] We're talking about what they, what they call hard rock. [speaker002:] Okay, like, give me some examples. [speaker001:] Like, for example, let's see, uh, Bad Company, what, [speaker002:] Oh, well, Bad Cam-, Company's not bad, that's not, [speaker001:] well, they're like, for example, A C D C. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] Yeah, A C D C [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Why, have you heard of them? [speaker002:] Yes [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Okay. And, stuff like that. That's, that's, [speaker002:] Well, okay. [speaker001:] that's not really hard rock. [speaker002:] Okay, I guess I didn't really consider that heavy metal. [speaker001:] Okay. [speaker002:] I mean, I, I think, when you say heavy metal, I'm, I'm thinking about like Cinderella, you know. [speaker001:] Well, Cinderella is, is hard rock, heavy metal. [speaker002:] Well, see, I don't really care for Cinderella [LAUGHTER]. But, I like A C D C's okay. [speaker001:] But, see, for example, they have, see what, but other bands consider it like really hard rock. It's like brash metal, which all they do is like, they have this guitar and they just bang at the guitar, and the guitar is set like, really low, [speaker002:] Yeah. No, I don't really care for that too much, I guess. [speaker001:] and, what happens is like, oh, everybody gets like totally into the music and then they start dancing around, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] and they just bump into each other, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] like, like they hit each other with their shoulders, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] and, then, you knock people down, and what you do is, you also try to get up on stage and jump down on top of all these other people. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] Is that the kind of music that you like? [speaker001:] No, I don't like that music. [speaker002:] Oh, okay. [speaker001:] But, that's, that's what they do. That's, that's what some people call like really heavy metal. [speaker002:] Oh, okay. [speaker001:] And, see, the difference, I guess, between hard rock and heavy metal is that the lyrics also. Like really, like heavy metal, wo-, is considered, like the words heavy metal and, like, you always thought about, like, suicide. And killing people and stuff like that. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] And, just hard rock has, they, they don't talk about that, they just talk about, like, life in general. [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] Like, Queen's Reich, if you ever heard of them. [speaker002:] Oh, sure. Of course. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] Que-, you, you're talking Queen, is that what you said? [speaker001:] Okay, well, no. I said Queen's Reich, but, [speaker002:] Oh, oh, oh, okay, [speaker001:] but, oh, but you got to like Queen also. [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] So because, [speaker002:] Well sure, because Queen was real popular when I was growing up. [speaker001:] Yeah, especially, uh, oh God, what is it, A Night At The Opera? Don't they have a, no let's see, the one that they have the, the whole opera singing in the background. [speaker002:] Oh! Um, uh, *slash error [speaker001:] Bo, Bo, Bohemian Rhapsody. [speaker002:] Right, right, yeah, yeah. [speaker001:] Yeah, that, that was great. I heard that the other day on the radio and I pumped it up. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Because, I mean, I just love that song. [speaker002:] Yeah, that, that was a real good one. [speaker001:] Yeah, but they had, that, that whole record was pretty good. But then, they started going downhill like everybody else. [speaker002:] Well, that's true. They came up with some pretty weird stuff after that. [speaker001:] Yeah, they're, they're still around, they've got a ne-, new C D out, but I, I wouldn't buy it. Because see, what happens is, the old, see whe-, I like, I like the old Rolling Stones. I don't like the new stuff. [speaker002:] Of the Stones? [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] Yeah. I agree. That's the ne-, the older stuff is the best of it. The, the new stuff's kind of more like, today's rock and roll, which I, [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] don't really care for today's rock and roll too much. [speaker001:] Well, for example, I used to like old Phil Collins. [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] An old, Genesis? *listen [speaker002:] Yes, definitely. I agree. [speaker001:] And, and, then what happened was that Phil Collins said, hey I can make money, a lot of money doing this, and then he came out with, uh, see, for example, his, his record like, No Jacket Required. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] That was good, but it was on his way of going downhill, because he said, I can make a lot of money just singing alone, and then he came out with the Invisible Touch, with, uh, Genesis and that really, like now, I hate Phil Collins, I can't stand him. [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] Because, I look at him and I say, you know, you were singing at this time, and with these people, and you were great, and now you're singing all this stuff that, doesn't matter what you, what you sing or what you record, it's still going to be a number one hit. And so, that's, that's what gets me mad. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] But, did, did you go see that new Doors movie? [speaker002:] No, not yet. I guess I've been, con-, kind of considering it. Have you seen it yet? [speaker001:] Yeah. I saw it when it opened. [speaker002:] Was it really good? [speaker001:] Yeah. Well, it, it's, you know, it's like, I was watching Siskel and Ebert, *slash error [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] you know, like those guys that criticize movies? [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] And, they both loved the movie, right? [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] They said the music's great, it took me back to the sixties, and stuff like that. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] And then, one of them said, well, everything is great, but I'm going to give it thumbs down. And they go, but why? Because it's like, the end is, like, really depressing. And so, [speaker002:] Oh. [speaker001:] But it, but it's like the movie is so well made, and the music that goes with it just picks you up, see, I was never, I was born in nineteen hundred sixty-nine. [speaker002:] Oh, okay. [speaker001:] So, I mean, so for me, [speaker002:] So, you didn't really grow up with that kind of music then. [speaker001:] No, but you learn to. I mean it's just that, like the, the sixties music's got a lot to say. [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] I, I never found out what a lot of the seventies music had too. You know, I was like, [speaker002:] Well no, now, well seventies music, I mean, I'm, like I said, yo-, disco, I don't like disco, *more than one utt I've never liked disco. [speaker001:] Hey, but I bet you were out there with your bell bottomed pants, [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] Well, that's true [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] That's true. But, I was more in the late seven-, well, I shou-, like mid to late seventies, like between seventy-five and, [speaker001:] Yeah, yeah. [speaker002:] and, seventy-nine, was more my era. [speaker001:] Did, did you go to college? [speaker002:] Well, no. I'm going right now [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Oh, that's cool. [speaker002:] But uh, no I didn't go then. But see, I graduated high school in seventy-eight, [speaker001:] Okay. [speaker002:] so, you know, in seventy-eight, you know rock was starting to get really heavy, you know, and real, um, [speaker001:] Yeah, yeah. [speaker002:] I don't know, disco was pretty much dead by then. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] So, so that's what I mean, disco wasn't really my time. [speaker001:] Well, they always say that the seventies was the lowest point in, in progression, ever in history. So, [speaker002:] About music? [speaker001:] No, about everything. [speaker002:] Oh. Okay. [speaker001:] So, it's like, nothing happened during the seventies. Everything happened during the sixties, the seventies I don't know what they're called, you know, it's like, like the, the eighties are called, like the progressive years, or the, or, you know, like the technology years, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] because of all the computers and stuff. But the seventies got nothing. I mean, nobody cared to name it [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] That's kind of funny [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] So. [speaker002:] You're right. I never thought of that. The disco years, that's what they're calling them, [speaker001:] Yeah, I know. [speaker002:] are gone. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Can you imagine the, like a big picture of John Travolta, ta-da, what is it SATURDAY NIGHT FEVER? Him just standing there. [speaker002:] Yeah, right. [speaker001:] Yeah, that's a good example to look for in history. Well, from now on we're going to go from the, from nineteen sixty-nine when they took the first step on the moon, to nineteen eighties. Okay, what happened in the middle? Don't worry, don't worry, you're not, you're not missing anything, you know, so, [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] That's true. Well, except for Vietnam. [speaker001:] Yeah, really. And, that's, [speaker002:] You know with, [speaker001:] that's why I guess, everybody, yeah, it's like they don't want to talk about that, so they just, don't name it. I mean, it was, it was, I guess it was pretty bad times. [speaker002:] Yeah. Well, that's very true [LAUGHTER]. But, [speaker001:] Oh, well, let's see, yeah, okay, we've been talking for seven minutes, so, [speaker002:] Oh, good. I haven't even been keeping track. [speaker001:] Okay, all right, so um, I'm going to leave you alone. Uh what, what are you doing? Do you have a family? [speaker002:] Uh, yeah. [speaker001:] Okay. [speaker002:] We're kind of, I was kind of in the middle of supper, but it's not a big deal, [speaker001:] Oh, I'm sorry. [speaker002:] I just left it. No, it's okay, because see I didn't, see somebody tried to call me last night but I didn't have my number yet, I just got it today. [speaker001:] Oh, okay. [speaker002:] And so, you know, it's okay. I, I told them I'd be available during this time, so, [speaker001:] Okay. All right. [speaker002:] anyway. [speaker001:] So then, uh, have fun doing this. It is not, [speaker002:] Okay, thanks. [speaker001:] that bad. Bye, bye. [speaker002:] Great, Bye.

[speaker001:] a tough one [speaker002:] yes it is I know well I I believe in it [speaker001:] would you like to begin uh-huh do you feel like there should be any kinds of restrictions on when it's [speaker002:] I think uh yes I do think that but I do think that I believe in it whole heartedly I really think that a lot of crime we have the criminal [speaker001:] obviously [speaker002:] you know element is just unreal I work in a high school here [speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh [speaker002:] and it just boggles my mind what's happened over the last few years [speaker001:] really do you mean even with adolescents [speaker002:] you know I've been there fifteen sixteen years and just watching the mentality of our teenagers and and this tough stuff that's going on now you know [speaker001:] uh-huh do you feel that it should be applied to them as well then same kind of laws or [speaker002:] I uh well I think that they should tougher laws for the teenagers yes I do believe that not but not the uh capital punishment for them [speaker001:] um-hum um-hum [speaker002:] I really don't feel that but I do feel tougher laws but some way I feel they have to uh revise our criminal system [speaker001:] you think it's too lenient over all [speaker002:] um-hum I really do and I think that the um oh rehab is terrible you know they put them in there and there's too it's just because of numbers though I understand the rehab is so big that they can't [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] but any way back to capital punishment I do believe in it for murderers and and especially um [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] oh you know when they actually thinking about it is that number one manslaughter something like that [speaker001:] oh premeditated you mean versus uh uh-huh uh-huh [speaker002:] I I don't know I'm not real sure premeditated right murder definitely of course I do feel that and then these [speaker001:] at this point most capital punishment is really uh related to murder though right I mean there's no capital punishment unless a life has been lost [speaker002:] um-hum um-hum [speaker001:] I think I think that's the right [speaker002:] right right and um [speaker001:] I wonder something I mean I believe as you do that something needs to change but I wonder sometimes what what makes an impact on criminals that do this kind of a crime I mean it it almost seems like they either don't believe it'll ever be them that's caught or if they do they don't really value their lives enough to care if they would lose their lives [speaker002:] um-hum that's true [speaker001:] it's it's I I'm not even sure I I feel uh in between I guess I'm I'm not sure that I have a strong commitment either direction because [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] I don't know enough about what what would motivate these people you know I do think that they are some times um [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] put in a rehabilitation program when there's really a very small chance of rehabilitation that that they're coddled for too long and they get the kind of courtesies of our society that that [speaker002:] right um-hum [speaker001:] the homeless would love to have you know something's wrong here [speaker002:] yes yes that's right that's for sure [speaker001:] but it's a tough one [speaker002:] well and sometimes the uh on the rehab uh I've just from being around the students that I'm around they know how to talk to the authorities they know exactly what to say to anybody in a [speaker001:] in in what respect [speaker002:] uh they know the right answers you know [speaker001:] like what's within their legal rights or do you mean how to manipulate the system [speaker002:] right what's well what's within their legal rights and how to manipulate them [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] and how to manipulate them just just they they answer to authority and to people to adults and that type of thing that they have to answer to or even the criminals do in to the people that count the judges and that type of thing you know they they usually answer to them [speaker001:] um-hum um-hum [speaker002:] in a way that like I said manipulative they just manipulate they've manipulated manipulated so long so this is [speaker001:] so they feign for example that they're really are um apologetic or what ever for their crime but they're [speaker002:] um-hum right and sorry right and very very sorrowful and then when they get out then we run into the problem of getting right back into a routine again of the same thing [speaker001:] but but you know that they aren't um-hum um-hum I'm sure that's easily learned if they don't get it from their peers they get it from going through the system one time being in juvenile court or what ever [speaker002:] so um-hum um-hum [speaker001:] do you know if there's much of a difference between the law I'm I'm embarrassed to say I don't know between Texas and California what what difference is there [speaker002:] I really don't myself I really don't I know they permit it here but I don't know you know the difference in it actually [speaker001:] hum uh-huh yeah [speaker002:] in fact we just had um a person put to death uh about three weeks ago was in in Texas and I forget for the reason now oh it was for the uh that clergy that he murdered he murdered a uh [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] a uh it was a priest I believe he murdered [speaker001:] oh my uh-huh it is interesting to look at other cultures other countries and see how different their rates are you know you look at even um [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] countries like Saudi Arabia where there's a lot of emotion and sometimes an

[speaker001:] have you ever been on a boat [speaker002:] of course my dad is a big sailor so he likes to sail and he likes to do all that stuff but it's been a long time since he's had a boat [speaker001:] oh that's yeah [speaker002:] but we use to go to Lake Michigan and fix up you know work he had a boat that he was working on so we used to do that but I've never sailed [speaker001:] so have you been up that is that where you were born is up there [speaker002:] I was in from Chicago I grew up around there and then um [speaker001:] oh [speaker002:] moved down here about ten years ago [speaker001:] now was it a sail boat that he had [speaker002:] no it was called it was it was an old forty foot yacht that [speaker001:] oh so you couldn't do much uh water skiing [speaker002:] no I mean it well no and it it was never in the water it was on dry dock so it was uh always kind of just sitting there so [speaker001:] oh good grief huh well so did you fish [speaker002:] um he fishes I don't do you [speaker001:] uh I like to I haven't done a whole lot of it in Texas we moved here from California and we use to do a lot more fishing there but [speaker002:] huh so do you from from docks or from what [speaker001:] uh well we had a friend that had a boat so we would go out there and there was lots of rivers and oceans all of that stuff we fished [speaker002:] uh-huh huh [speaker001:] my husband and I are you married [speaker002:] nope divorced [speaker001:] oh [speaker002:] yep so [speaker001:] now you're right in Plano [speaker002:] um yeah we live sort of Fifteenth and Independence [speaker001:] yeah well I'm up here on the north end of Alma [speaker002:] oh yeah [speaker001:] not too far [speaker002:] so are you by Clarks sort of okay [speaker001:] uh yeah yeah above Legacy from from there north of Alma yeah the clear uh in the boondocks yeah way out here I mean it's a subdivision but nobody knows it's even up here [speaker002:] oh okay so you're far up there oh are you oh huh and you moved here how long ago [speaker001:] about eight years [speaker002:] oh yeah so you've been moved about the same time we did [speaker001:] huh and you where did you move from [speaker002:] we moved from North Dakota I was married at the time to a coal miner well he did you know strip mining kind of thing civil engineer but he um moved down here with that so we came down here [speaker001:] yeah so that brought you down here [speaker002:] yeah we were in North Dakota with mining too so [speaker001:] oh [speaker002:] yeah so that was real different I have four [speaker001:] do you have children oh so do I [speaker002:] do you [speaker001:] where do they go to school then [speaker002:] Shepherd [speaker001:] Shepherd [speaker002:] and Wilson I have uh middle school [speaker001:] what grade what age [speaker002:] uh twelve ten nine and three [speaker001:] so a seventh grader [speaker002:] uh-huh a seventh grader fifth grader fourth grader and third through [speaker001:] yeah I have a seventh grader and a fifth grader also [speaker002:] huh so then you have little one [speaker001:] yeah and then I have two little ones one's a kindergartner and the other one's just three [speaker002:] oh yeah so just well mine's almost four [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] little girl [speaker001:] now is your seventh grader a boy or girl [speaker002:] girl [speaker001:] what's her name [speaker002:] Megan [speaker001:] Megan [speaker002:] yep Megan Walls [speaker001:] huh [speaker002:] so yeah she's I know she's um in band and that kind of stuff [speaker001:] yeah huh [speaker002:] yeah so we're probably about the same age and same [speaker001:] yeah exactly my daughter has a basketball game over there tomorrow no Thursday night yeah [speaker002:] I know oh really oh to win against that team because our Megan's friend is on that team she tried out but she didn't make it so [speaker001:] yeah who's her friend [speaker002:] uh Mandy Philip uh Nichols Amanda Nichols she plays I don't even know what she you know a number we haven't gone to a game we were always gonna a game and we haven't so [speaker001:] no don't know who she is yeah what does she play in band [speaker002:] she plays the flute [speaker001:] oh are you musical [speaker002:] yes [speaker001:] what do you play [speaker002:] I sing that's what I started in college on yeah [speaker001:] oh that's great so do you still sing [speaker002:] yeah so then I do bells handbells we have handbells at church and so I do that and do that kind of stuff and but I just started I'm uh [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] I don't know now I'm out of that whole field pretty much except for on the sides kind of thing but [speaker001:] yeah church related stuff huh [speaker002:] yeah that's about it I mean that's all I have time for [speaker001:] yeah that's right [speaker002:] so that's what I do [speaker001:] so have you been out on a boat at all in Texas [speaker002:] never [speaker001:] have you gone out to Lake Lewisville [speaker002:] um no [speaker001:] no you ought to go out there it's fun just for family just to stay along the sides [speaker002:] we go we've gone to Lake Lavon [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] and um what's else is east Hubbard Lake Ray Hubbard I guess so we've done those and uh camped there and that kind of stuff and we've camped up on um [speaker001:] yeah uh-huh [speaker002:] Texoma [speaker001:] oh I bet that was fun [speaker002:] yeah but I don't know that I've boated there I don't have any friends with boats [speaker001:] yeah no neither do I [speaker002:] no well I'm gonna have to do a better grouping get better friends [speaker001:] why don't we sign up for boating huh just so they'd call us [speaker002:] I know because I thought well gosh well I was figuring you know um as I was listening to this is sailing and and I thought it's probably a man on the other end [speaker001:] I know I've gotten those basketball ones tell me about your favorite basketball team well my daughter plays for Hendrick does that count [speaker002:] yeah they're seventh grade girls [speaker001:] yeah they couldn't relate to that at all it's called Walnut Creek [speaker002:] no well where in California are you from [speaker001:] it's kind of by Oakland [speaker002:] oh I know where San Francisco sort of area [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] because we have apartments there I do I do recruit nurses [speaker001:] oh [speaker002:] for a company called Flying Nurses and so we have apartments in Walnut Creek [speaker001:] is that right [speaker002:] uh I don't why that rang a bell I know [speaker001:] oh that's

[speaker001:] Well, Sid, have you established what kind of requirements you are looking for, for your next vehicle? [speaker002:] [Lipsmack] Well, I don't know if I really have [LAUGHTER] a, a lot of, uh, requirements. Uh, I guess I look at, uh, getting the best deal. [speaker001:] [Noise]. [speaker002:] Uh, that's my main objectives normally. Whoever is willing to deal and, and give me a good price. [speaker001:] Okay. Well, I, I tend to be more methodical I guess. Uh, I determine first of all what I'm going to use the vehicle for, whether it's going to be primarily as a family mover or as a, a personal mover. Uh, where it's going to be driven, you know, what types of, uh, driving I'm going to be doing on it, primarily highway or, or local mileage more often. And, uh, hanging in the back of my mind is always the knowledge that I tend to drive cars for about ten years and a hundred fifty to two hundred thousand miles. [speaker002:] [Very faint] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] So I'm, I'm real picky. I-, if you are going to keep something that long, [LAUGHTER] you know, you better get something that you wanted to begin with and that you are going to like for a long time. [speaker002:] Yeah. I don't know I've had pretty good luck, you know, even if, if you take any car and, and you care for it well enough, uh, you are going to get some good life out of it. Uh, my, my Oldsmobile right now that I have, uh, is getting near eighty thousand and it's still in pretty good shape. Uh, there was a flaw in there where a, where a head gasket bolt broke, and it cost me some bucks to, to fix that but that was, you know, something that was unforeseen. But I still think I c-, I'm going to get probably a hundred fifty thousand or more out of it. [speaker001:] Sure. Well, it sounds like you tend to drive your cars quite a ways also then. [speaker002:] Well, I, I drive like the song says, THE LITTLE OLD LADY but, uh, but not FROM PASADENA [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] But, uh, yeah, I, I baby them as much as I possibly can. Uh, it's a pretty big expense nowadays. Uh, and I guess I like to take care of it, uh, so I don't have to buy one too often. [speaker001:] That's true. Uh, do you have more than, than one vehicle in your fleet? Uh, do you have a family fleet or, [speaker002:] Yeah, I, I, I got an old, uh, seventy-six, uh, Grand Fury that, uh, doesn't want to die on me so I, I just keep running the thing. Don't want to sell it or get rid of it until it quits, but it just doesn't seem to want to. I'll probably have, uh, three, four hundred thousand before it wants to die. [speaker001:] Well, that may be. They, Chrysler made some really good old engines back then like the, the three eighteen was particularly an exceptionally good engine. [speaker002:] Oh. I've got the big three sixty in there, gas guzzler but it runs good. [speaker001:] Yeah. At the moment I've got, uh, Cadillac Cimarron which is approaching its tenth year of age and a, uh, reasonably new Plymouth Voyager. It's only a, a couple of years old. But that's the second one of, of those that we've had, and that's the, the family travel vehicle. You know, not only does it do all the, the, uh, carpooling around during the week, but it's also the vacation vehicle that we all drive in. I think that what I'm getting ready to get next is probably a Suburban unless they drastically change the, the vehicle a lot. Uh, I'm just getting tired of when I do get hung up in traffic, not being able to determine what the problem is and, and come to some resolution of whether it's better to sit in the traffic light and wait or get off at the next exit and that kind of stuff. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] Just because I can't see, you know, I'm to, my Cimarron is just so small and so low to the ground that I can't see past any vehicle [LAUGHTER], [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] that's in front of me. [speaker002:] Yeah. Well, I'm considering probably some kind of a pickup truck myself for the next vehicle. Uh, I just have so many hauling projects a lot of times and, uh, I, I'd like to just start doing some, uh, carpentry, uh, type work around. I just feel that,

[speaker001:] well Brad what do you hear in San Jose about Ross Perot do you hear as much do you think as we do here in Dallas [speaker002:] um probably not in anywhere near as much there have been a couple of articles uh which I've basically glanced at um but that's about it I just find it interesting that somebody with that much money uh would be interested in the presidency in the first place I guess it's it's as much you know just the sense of power and the sense of being able to accomplish things uh as much as anything else I don't know it seems to me that if I had that kind of money I would feel like I were more influential as a private citizen than as the president [speaker001:] well that could be uh Ross Ross Perot is not a politician I mean this is kind of new to him [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] I I don't know are you familiar with things that he's done in the past that have gotten quite a bit of attention like uh rescuing the EDS employees that were being held in jail in Tehran [speaker002:] hum no no I hadn't I hadn't really paid that much attention [speaker001:] yeah I mean this was this was a few years ago probably ten or so ten or twelve [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] uh he hired uh some retired Army guys to go in after him and and supposedly even I think went in by himself with went in to see them disguised you know as somebody else [speaker002:] wow [speaker001:] but uh he at least ended up over there in one of the neighboring companies probably countries probably Afghanistan or something to meet them when they came out of uh out of Iran and I think he was uh maybe a little getting a little bit involved in politics or something during the Vietnam war he uh tried to send supplies over to the prisoners [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] and I don't know I of course we hear a lot of him because he lives here in the Dallas area [speaker002:] what kind of I mean this this obviously says something for his um you know something for one aspect of his character what kind of person is he in terms of [speaker001:] I he was an outstanding salesman at IBM I've read until he quit there and started his own company which he later sold out to General Motors and [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] and uh it since then he's started a new company but I think he must be a very good salesman or at least he was at some time um my impression is that he's a pretty honest person [speaker002:] be kind of a change [speaker001:] oh I I've heard him on the radio and whatnot I mean he just seems very forthright he he he doesn't have to play games [speaker002:] yeah he's already he's already won [speaker001:] I mean that he that's right that's right I I'm just curious to see what's gonna happen to the political scene uh if he gets on the ballot in all the states and whatnot do you do you think he cans be a spoiler for Bush [speaker002:] um-hum um I honestly don't think so uh not unless he really puts a lot of effort into it and I don't think he wants to I think it's uh I think being a seriously considered being seriously considered as a presidential candidate is something that um it it just takes a really huge investment in personal effort not just you know I mean I'm sure it takes a lot of money as well [speaker001:] oh yeah [speaker002:] but um just in terms of the number of personal appearances that you've got to make and all the the the hoops that you've got to jump through in order to get the media sound bites and get people paying attention to you I mean [speaker001:] all the backslapping [speaker002:] an occasional newspaper article will will show up for for any variety of things but being considered seriously I think is you know may take more than he's willing to put into it [speaker001:] yeah uh yeah yeah could be could be I I also suspect that one aspect of his personality would be that he would be really really tenacious [speaker002:] hum [speaker001:] or or maybe stubborn even I don't know so I don't know you know he he might decide to go whole hog and really go out and and turn into a politician and do all the back slapping and and uh handshaking and all that kiss a few babies I suppose [speaker002:] yeah well I don't suppose he'd have to do a whole lot of fund raising or uh worry a whole lot about where the funding was coming from so he'd have that advantage [speaker001:] yeah yeah yeah it's um certainly different I mean Bush is wealthy [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] but nothing like that [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] I I mean I don't know what they put Perot's wealth at I think it's probably a few billion or something I [speaker002:] yeah I've I've I've heard it in the billions I didn't hear specifics I figured once it you know once it reaches that point it doesn't really matter how many numbers are in front of the B you know it [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] it's passed it's passed any kind of reasonable imagining in the first place so [speaker001:] yeah well I the in a way I I'm interested in his candidacy I'd like to I'd like to kind of get

[speaker001:] you ready okay what have you seen lately [speaker002:] yeah well uh it's funny when I tried to make the call the other days I thought I hadn't seen anything since Dances With Wolves but today I went to see Regarding With Henry [speaker001:] oh I'm dying to see that [speaker002:] it was really good we uh Jeff Warner just got out of the hospital and uh Jeff and Deanna went and [speaker001:] oh uh-huh [speaker002:] another friend in the neighborhood and uh we all liked it we had uh both moms and uh fifteen year olds and a twelve year old and everyone enjoyed it and uh [speaker001:] oh my goodness oh well I am just dying to see it I went to dinner with some friends last weekend and they said get a babysitter and we'll all go see Regarding Henry and I said ooh I want to see it so bad [speaker002:] yeah well my son had gotten to see a lot of movies this summer on choir tour and visiting friends and one thing and another a lot of the ones I had wanted to see and so since he had this friend up from Houston uh [speaker001:] oh [speaker002:] and his friend had already seen so many and I thought they decided on this and I thought well I want to see this one too so we uh I finally it's my first summer movie [speaker001:] yeah oh my well let me see was it well we went to see One Hundred And One Dalmatians last weekend and that may be no right before I went in the hospital my girlfriend said come on we're going to the movies and we won't well she goes all the time but I go maybe once every couple of months [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] and when I go I go see two at a time so we went to see Soapdish [speaker002:] oh was that good [speaker001:] and oh hysterical we laughed so hard it was just you couldn't hear half the dialogue because everyone in the audience was laughing so hard [speaker002:] uh well I want to see that and City Slickers both I love comedies but that's what I was [speaker001:] that's the other one that we went to that night [speaker002:] oh was it [speaker001:] and my face hurt so bad from laughing because I love Billy Crystal and course growing up on on the back of a horse you know and being on ranches and stuff [speaker002:] oh [speaker001:] so much of that was so true and I was absolutely rolling in the aisles it was so funny both of them were great [speaker002:] oh well good I'm I'm glad to hear that because they [speaker001:] oh they are are we just laughed so hard and like I said with City Slick I mean with Soapdish it is so cornball and it is so overacted that you're just hysterical you know just they just carried it off to the tee it was [speaker002:] uh-huh well I don't I don't know if you got to see Weekend um At Bernie's that was out a couple of year's ago they had a free showing at the Berkeley um United Artist [speaker001:] no how neat [speaker002:] and I don't know who was here or whether Jay just called a friend and we didn't think we'd have much chance of getting in but we thought we'd try it you know free movie [speaker001:] shoot yeah [speaker002:] it was so funny and it sounds like uh what you were just describing Soapdish too I mean we just we hurt by the time we came out and the whole theater was hysterical and it's just it's just goofy I mean it's [speaker001:] oh yeah [speaker002:] uh if you have a chance to rent it at least or it should be out on TV I would think [speaker001:] yeah I think it is I think it is [speaker002:] um because it's it's just a fun summer light comedy make your cheeks hurt laughing especially in the theater it was contagious you know I I imagine the way Soapdish was but with everyone laughing [speaker001:] yeah oh gosh I never laughed and people were just screaming and applauding and you know it was just hysterical [speaker002:] well I'm glad you did that before your surgery [speaker001:] oh me too because I don't even know if I could live through it now I mean I'm getting around real good and I'm just still real sore and today I was I course I went back to work two weeks after [speaker002:] yeah yeah oh gosh [speaker001:] uh but see I don't have permanent work I right now I'm working with a temporary agency and so the second week I was out of the hospital I went up and worked half day on the computers because you can learn all the software for free [speaker002:] oh [speaker001:] and so I went up to do WordPerfect because that seems like that's what everybody wants and I was up there half a day and came home and collapsed and then they called me to see if I wanted to work a day and I said yeah and I went and of course it took me the whole weekend to recover from that [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] and uh I worked about three days a week ever since two to three days a week and so I went to my doctor's last Thursday and this was my fourth week checkup and he said well gosh you're just healing really well I just can't get over this he says in two weeks you can go back to doing your crazy normal things if you want to play ball you can go play ball he says now I'm not going to say you're going to feel like playing ball but you can if you want to and uh you know he was teasing me and [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] he says yeah you'll be out there waterskiing I can just see it now and uh he says so you just take it easy for two more weeks you've only got two more weeks I said okay fine I I will I will whatever you call easy I'll do it you know but and I've been out trying to find a job because this is just not cutting it [speaker002:] yeah yeah [speaker001:] and so I don't I'm real glad that we didn't go see those funny ones when I was when I'm still sort of on the sore side [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] but well what what's your next have you seen Robin Hood yet [speaker002:] no that was one uh Jay got to see with a friend and so I I and to try and uh [speaker001:] uh [speaker002:] try and find time it's hard uh with Jim's schedule too just to get a time that we can both go and [speaker001:] oh yeah [speaker002:] um I'm holding out for City Slickers for the two of us because uh we had friends that went to see that and said you know it's just perfect for our age group and because I think he he needs a comedy too um [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] uh and that's what he would have liked to have seen Regarding Henry too but knew that uh we've we've got a lot of company this summer which is wonderful we're really enjoying it but some of the different things we're doing uh [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] there's just not a time enough time to do it all and he said well realistically you know he knew he couldn't get them all in but uh Jay really liked Robin Hood um [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] when the choir group went to see Backdraft and they thought that was uh it was funny cause he sounded like the critics he said you know the plot line and the characters uh you know aren't real big but the the fire scenes and the drafts you know that action part is fantastic [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] but he thought Robin Hood was great it was real different then you'd expect but he but he enjoyed it and so [speaker001:] oh really well I went course I am a Kevin Costner fan supreme [speaker002:] yeah me too and yeah I really uh like him a lot which is why Dances With Wolves was the last movie we had seen for several months but it was I uh [speaker001:] uh-huh gosh was that wonderful [speaker002:] in fact uh a friend from Germany was visiting in March and we wanted we didn't ran out of time we wanted to take him to see it we were going to sit through it again because we really wanted him to see it too [speaker001:] oh yeah [speaker002:] uh I just thought that was terrific and I really enjoy Harrison Ford which is one of the reasons I wanted to see [speaker001:] I do too I think he's really good [speaker002:] and he's very good in Regarding Henry that's not an easy part to play I I don't think [speaker001:] I wouldn't think well my kids are going to their dad's tomorrow night so I sort of think I may go do that [speaker002:] yeah that's at that one won't your sides um it was this the first time you got to see One Hundred and One Dalmatians [speaker001:] good I have my parents took me when I was probably somewhere between Ashley and Jamie's age and we went to the [speaker002:] uh-huh

[speaker001:] okay um I don't know about you but where I am we have a like an extremely lax dress policy at work and it varies like everyday I mean from jeans one day to business suits the next [speaker002:] were [speaker001:] it's pretty bad but it's true you know they tend to try to be you know real lax and supposedly the policy is like you know we you know we hire these wonderful creative people and we don't want to smush their creativity you know we want to go ahead and let them do what ever they want and you know you really will see people in in jeans one day and business suits the next [speaker002:] well I'm kind of that way too I work in the legal department and where we are now what we're doing is some very big lawsuits that happen to have a heck of a lot of boxes of documents [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] and I get to toting around boxes of documents several times a day it always seems like I'm doing that and I can't see getting dressed up and wearing heels and stuff when you have to carry you know boxes of documents around so if I'm just gonna be there working in the litigation center and doing you know odds and ends and stuff with the boxes of documents I dress down but if we're going to have a meeting where we're having the attorneys come in or people from uh other party's attorneys and stuff then I normally dress up yeah and I'll wear a dress and hose and stuff [speaker001:] yeah yeah you know we're kind of that way too I try to I'm the same way you are I kind of try to judge from day to day I know you know where I am we work a lot with the customers and we have a lot of government folks come in all the time and [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] and you know if I know that they're gonna be there you know you you I try to really watch it and like you say you know really dress up and if I know they're not you know I I've been doing a lot of reorganization you know the last couple of months the same way you are you know and it's just so it's just impossible to crawl down on the floor and dig through boxes in a dress you know it is so [speaker002:] um-hum that's right that's right a matter of fact I thought I had one funny story when um I was at TI the first year or so we were sent out to our record retention facility to look through two thousand boxes we had them in the warehouse and at that point it the warehouse was over across the road and it wasn't air conditioned [speaker001:] uh [speaker002:] and if we were there like in the middle of the summer it's unair-conditioned it was dusty and dirty um there was like a fan at the very end of the row and that was it and so we didn't really know we weren't supposed to we thought TI dress code was just dress appropriate to your job we wore shorts we didn't know that was a big no no [speaker001:] uh-huh oh no [speaker002:] and a supervisor from another area came up to us and you know this area where record retention is there's only a few people that work there and he should he knew who worked there he should have realized that we weren't regulars in the warehouse there [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] and he came up to us and he just said who's your supervisor well he called our supervisor and our supervisor's supervisor and it went up all the way to the head of facilities complaining that we were wearing shorts [speaker001:] oh no [speaker002:] he didn't at least say to us did you know you're not supposed to do that that could have alleviated a big problem we ended up getting called out on it [speaker001:] oh how awful sounds like Mister Power Hungry but you know just yesterday though I saw a girl in the spin out here at Lewisville that had on a pair of shorts [speaker002:] yeah uh-huh [speaker001:] and I don't care you can call them split skirts and you can call them culottes all you want but these were shorts is all they were I mean I I don't care what else you call them you know if they're below the knee okay maybe you can call them split skirts if they're above the knee they turn into shorts you know and these weren't even really full ones I mean they had a problem out here with it last summer wearing these shorts that were you know the real wide full ones you know and because these weren't even those these were like [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] pretty short black and they were very dressy they were black velvet shorts and she had on black hose and black heels and she looked very very nice [speaker002:] hum [speaker001:] but you don't wear shorts to work you know I mean as far as I'm concerned she was in violation and nobody says anything to them it's always been a big problem in Lewisville in the summertime you know if they just you know the management doesn't ever seem to want to take an [speaker002:] um hum [speaker001:] cut off you know that yeah no this is where we're going to draw the line this is shorts you know and and nobody will ever kind of take control and do that you know [speaker002:] yeah hum [speaker001:] so it always gets annoying because the rest of us are going well God we have a pair of those at home too it sure would be cool and comfortable to wear you know but [speaker002:] well I've seen some people try to just come in like over the weekend because they want to use the TexTeller machine and they have said no [speaker001:] yeah uh yeah and then during the week you see these women in the you know just because you put on a pair of hose with them doesn't make them not shorts anymore you know [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] I mean I've never seen them do it without hose I mean they always have hose on but still it's they're shorts I don't care what you say they're shorts you know well I think TI's dress code is pretty lax considering everything anyway you know I [speaker002:] I know I didn't know that EDS has a very strict dress code I had a friend oh [speaker001:] oh do they really [speaker002:] definitely I had a friend who worked there for a year or so and they spell it out for men it's particular suits uh the pin stripe and the particular colors of shirts and wing wing tipped shoes oh it is definitely lined out [speaker001:] oh my God [speaker002:] women are not allowed to wear slacks she wears coordinated suits [speaker001:] I could I couldn't afford to work there [speaker002:] and a and a particular kind of shoe you know so high heel oh it is [speaker001:] oh no [speaker002:] spelled out when I was looking at her materials when she first started you know she had her benefits package and all that kind of stuff and it told about the dress code and it said [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] these are the color pastel shirts you may wear or white shirts with this kind of stripe in it for the men and this kind of shoe and hair just this way yeah [speaker001:] TI says no shorts and no halters you know that's it [speaker002:] and EDS is very particular about this hair cuts I mean it was like you can't have you know such and such facial hair no beards you know and just really detailed [speaker001:] wow I don't know that that would be a good environment to work in I mean I I see I I am more I don't know about anybody else and a lot of bosses may say I'm nuts but I am more productive when I'm in pants I I am I work faster I get things done faster than when I'm in a dress and heels you know I it and it's weird but I it's I do I I can I can get so much more done if I'm dressed comfortable you know [speaker002:] well the uh the time we were there at the warehouse we felt really bad because we had uh another person coming from Washington our outside counsel and she was told that we were gonna be in a warehouse but she really didn't get the idea that we were in the warehouse part of the warehouse not the office to the warehouse but the warehouse [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] and she came with skirts just like she'd be going into the office [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] and we'd try we'd try to say didn't you bring any pants or anything we're we're out here in the warehouse you know you you got your skid of you know that wooden pallet of boxes and you're gonna have to unload unload your skids look at the documents in the in the boxes and then repack your skid [speaker001:] uh-huh you can't do that in a skirt poor thing [speaker002:] and she and she was so she was so hot and miserable you know in the skirt she finally tried to go buy you know a pair of pants but you know I mean it was just completely miserable for her [speaker001:] oh yuck yeah that's terrible that's terrible gosh well I don't know I just figure you know yeah sometimes I worry about you know if I go in in pants and I never I never ever ever go in in a pair of jeans you know but I'll go in in pants I mean today I had on a pair of you know navy blue dress slacks and a and a like a peach colored top and you know not cruddy but not a dress either and sometimes I wonder if stuff like that would will hold you back you know if you don't dress in you know your dress for success business suits everyday if [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] you know if upper management doesn't notice that and remember that later on but you know I don't know if they do or not you know I see a lot of the managers and they're in jeans so you know [speaker002:] some of our people in the legal department we have um assistants to the general counsel and it's funny because there's one that always wears a suit a matter of fact he's never seen without his jacket to the suit on buttoned [speaker001:] really wow [speaker002:] and then there's another one who's who's a little younger and a little more yuppyish and he's always kind of like in the khaki pants and you know a shirt and sometimes he wears the jacket to it [speaker001:] uh-huh yeah [speaker002:] and some of the patent attorneys have been real casual in their clothes and then other ones tend to always wear a suit with a very starched cotton shirt so that's just you [speaker001:] isn't that funny [speaker002:] you know with the you know the little suspenders or something on so we [speaker001:] that's great [speaker002:] we've kind of had a variety there but I think a lot of times it's it's mainly who they're going to meet with they're they're meeting with people that they know is gonna be dressed that way then that's how they are if there just gonna be meeting with TIers [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] like to talk about a patent kind of thing and the they're engineers that they're talking too they dress kind of like how the engineers are dressed and they're usually casual [speaker001:] that's the way to do it I mean that's the smart way to do it it really is because your making you know if when they're meeting with the engineers who they know are going to be dressed down if they come in you know in a six hundred dollar three piece suit [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] it's gonna make the people they're meeting with feel very uncomfortable you know or it would me you know [speaker002:] it's it's one of those slippery attorneys coming in here [speaker001:] yeah yeah look at this slick guy I wonder what kind of money does he make uh-huh I can see it now well it was good to talk to you it was really enjoyable [speaker002:] yeah this is this is kind of a fun project I've done I've done some of the other speech programs but we've never got to talk to another person it was always just talking to the computer so this is a little different [speaker001:] it really is oh yuck yeah well it's kind of enjoyable I'm really looking forward to it well thanks a lot bye-bye [speaker002:] yeah okay bye

[speaker001:] okay [speaker002:] okay what do you feel are everyday occurrences that are invasion of privacy in your opinion [speaker001:] well uh I guess uh one that comes to mind is um the way the credit bureaus operate [speaker002:] I I agree one hundred percent especially whenever it's like they keep stuff on your record like for seven years and they don't bother like [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] I know at one time I was unemployed or something and and they kept they kept it on my record for like seven months even though that I seven years even though that like you know I I um yeah they sent a letter in but they didn't bother to include the letter for the explanation where I got behind or anything like that [speaker001:] yeah yeah we had a problem with them back oh I don't know five or seven years ago where it uh some stuff was on there that was incorrect and it was and it was real hard to [speaker002:] and well that too [speaker001:] get it get it fixed but they um they share that information with a lot of people that [speaker002:] well that happened with me I um I had had a a doctor's appointment at at uh University of Chapel Hill Hospital [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] and there was two William Parrishes and they were charging me for this other person and I went through like six months of you know because they kept billing me and billing me and billing me I was like you know I'm not this person I'm not seeing seeing you why are you charging me [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] and I mean they turned me into the Credit Bureau they even held my taxes [speaker001:] oh they did [speaker002:] yeah I mean it went a long ways and it [speaker001:] you mean they held your uh refund [speaker002:] over my refund that you you know and it was it was a mess and finally I got it straightened out but it it took me almost a year to get that straightened out and it was for something you know uh [speaker001:] huh [speaker002:] another William Parrish that wasn't paying his bills or either else they wasn't you know charging him [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] but it was really weird [speaker001:] huh well let's see um [speaker002:] I think the biggest thing I think that are is not just well not for the average person I I think like the media's is is getting a little bit overboard on the invasion of privacy on like different on public figures yeah that some of the stuff that they're they're like [speaker001:] on public figures [speaker002:] like the tabloids and stuff are are saying that it's like really like I think Joan Collins I believe is believe right now is having a lawsuit against [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] think it's the National Enquirer for taking pictures of her when she was getting undressed in her bedroom and published them and [speaker001:] oh yeah huh [speaker002:] I some things I think should be private I would hate to know if I was getting undressed in the bedroom somebody was taking pictures of me you know [speaker001:] yeah someone someone between the curtain was huh [speaker002:] and I believe they've got something now I read in some science magazine or something where they have a infrared camera that can take pictures like with inside your house to see if you have any drugs or anything like that I think that's kind of an invasion of privacy too [speaker001:] hm yeah I guess um another thing comes to mind is some of the quote unquote routine uh traffic stops they do that man they did that around Raleigh all the time [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] you know they set those roadblocks up [speaker002:] oh yeah to see if you've been drinking and driving [speaker001:] yeah yeah and you know and and uh boy they just you know they have no reason to be stopping you and they just uh they stop you and and uh look in your car a little bit you know lean in the windows anyway [speaker002:] well I I I had something like that happen to me too um I worked for the Hilton for a while as a banquet waiter and um one night whenever I got off work you know it was like two or three in the morning it was a big party and you know I pulled out of that little road where you know pull out of the Hilton on the old Wake Forest Road going home [speaker001:] um-hum um-hum [speaker002:] and I looked up and it was I seen you know blue lights on and I thought God I just pull on the road it can't be me so you know like I pulled off the road and I pulled you know pulled off the side road and the car followed you know the police car followed you know pulled me over and next thing I know there was eight cop cars and they all got out with guns and everything [speaker001:] you're kidding [speaker002:] and it it really scared me really bad [speaker001:] and they were just stopping you because you were leaving a a night spot probably [speaker002:] well uh they they said that I it was suspicious behavior and I looked at you know the highway patrol and I said how could it be suspicious behavior of me uh waiting to a light was green making a left hand turn in the correct lane what's to make you know and they had they went all through my car [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] and you know while the highway patrolman pulled me back there or and and I I think they gave me a ticket for driving without my license [speaker001:] they did search your car though [speaker002:] they did yeah without my permission [speaker001:] oh huh [speaker002:] so I I thought I'd I was really offended by that I thought that was a severe invasion of privacy [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] and I think some of the laws that they're trying to pass right now um especially in North Carolina uh I mean we

[speaker001:] okay now what is your favorite TV show [speaker002:] well it was Newhart and it's gone now and I miss it real bad [speaker001:] well can't you find anything else to um to replace [speaker002:] uh yeah I think so I like the new Home Improvement sitcom I like any I like most of the sitcoms if they keep me entertained for a half an hour [speaker001:] so you don't watch Northern Exposure [speaker002:] I do watch Northern Exposure and also for for ever how many years it's been on TV I've been watching Knots Landing [speaker001:] oh okay you're having to be in reruns for that one have you seen Brooklyn Bridge [speaker002:] no I haven't seen that one yet [speaker001:] that is one of it's so clean and so laid back and I'm awful tired of some of the things that they have on TV but this thirty minute story is I would certainly recommend that you try it it [speaker002:] uh I don't know my wife I don't know but you know my wife watches all those Rescue 911 Unsolved Mystery things [speaker001:] oh okay [speaker002:] drives me nuts [speaker001:] well [speaker002:] I just don't even like to be in the room when all of those are on it's like too much real life [speaker001:] and I think it's a shame that our life has to be I mean so many of the tragedies that we have on the movies or on TV no we need something lighter than that have you seen um [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] hm I'll Fly Away [speaker002:] I'll Fly Away I think I watched that that's where there there's a lawyer and he has a black nurse or a nanny [speaker001:] yes yeah [speaker002:] I watched that once when it I think when it the first episode and it just didn't grab my attention [speaker001:] well [speaker002:] I felt like it was kind of they were trying to copy To Kill a Mockingbird without all the suspense or something [speaker001:] um it's not I don't know it it's clean it there again you don't have the violence [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] and um I'm surprised it's even still on because coming at seven o'clock in the evening that's when the children want to watch [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] and that is not part of it [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] so um [speaker002:] actually it's the best time of the year for me for watching TV is is starts around Christmas and will end in April and that's for the college basketball [speaker001:] oh [speaker002:] um really get involved in that my wife played basketball when she was in high school and college so that's something we can both watch and keep up with which is pretty interesting at time [speaker001:] well I'm let's see I believe Texas lost last night is that correct [speaker002:] you know I'm not sure if Texas won or lost I can't I don't even keep up with them or either my uh son goes there I just don't keep up with them [speaker001:] well you don't have to [speaker002:] no my favorite teams are back east and they seem to be the best ones anyway so [speaker001:] well don't you ever forget that Oklahoma is not bad but Oklahoma [speaker002:] it's yeah well Oklahoma's doing good this year is it [speaker001:] Oklahoma State though is the better of the two so [speaker002:] yeah is that where you are from Oklahoma yeah [speaker001:] that's right um-hum I'm a transplanted Texan Okie um-hum [speaker002:] well aren't we all are from somewhere [speaker001:] well we've from somewhere is correct so I hope you can find enough TV to keep you happy this winter [speaker002:] yeah well there's always actually I'll probably watch too much TV and and uh I think that probably effects me too from just from watching too much [speaker001:] well I have recently retired and I find that this is the most boring thing in the world is to sit and watch TV [speaker002:] so yeah well I'm at home all the time myself and uh I don't work and I never ever turn the TV on during the day [speaker001:] oh you don't well [speaker002:] uh just just something I I can't do I won't do and when someone else is here during the day and and like my son's been out of school for a month drives me nuts when he turns that thing on during the day [speaker001:] well it's oh it's nice to have the noise sometime it's nice that you don't need that noise [speaker002:] well I'm just afraid I won't get things done if if I if there's something there that keep me busy [speaker001:] do you work out of the home [speaker002:] uh no I have a medical problem and I don't haven't worked for three years so [speaker001:] oh [speaker002:] so that that just I just stay home and run errands do chores keep you know do the house work for my wife she still works and uh that sort of thing [speaker001:] okay [speaker002:] what kind of a job did you have when you were working [speaker001:] I was an accountant at the medical school here for the food service and it was a very heavy desk and a very busy desk and I'm awful sorry that I'm no longer gainfully employed but they're [speaker002:] yeah well

[speaker001:] okay Toby this is Brian White and our topic I guess tonight is on capital punishment and how we feel about that um if you don't mind uh how do you feel about capital punishment [speaker002:] well my position in general is that I'm supportive of it but I'm not supportive of the way that it's currently administered [speaker001:] okay [speaker002:] um it takes so long with uh the appeals process uh that it's uh uh simply impossible to say that it's that it's consistent administration of justice uh [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] if if the penalty could be executed swiftly and surely upon people who deserved it when there was uh evidence uh beyond a a reasonable doubt that they had committed a a crime worthy of it then I think it should be done [speaker001:] uh-huh and that way it can be a deterrent a deterrent [speaker002:] that's right but as it stands now it's not a deterrent we just had a fellow here in our county who has he's been on death row for seventeen years and just had his sentence overturned for the third time uh on a technicality [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] everybody knows he did it [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] this last technicality was simply because the language of the decision handed down by the jury uh explaining uh saying that he should get the death penalty was not precisely as it is stated in the statute that it should be [speaker001:] uh-huh oh great [speaker002:] and that was it I mean it was a a very simple I mean they fully intended to give him the death penalty uh they had a unanimous decision but when they drafted the uh decision [speaker001:] the response yeah [speaker002:] uh they did it wrong and it was just a very minor very minor uh mistake but it was enough for uh the state supreme court to say that the uh that the decision was invalid and that they had to empanel a new jury to consider the death penalty again [speaker001:] uh [speaker002:] that kind of thing uh and and and the way that people search and search for those kind of things just uh just disgusts me [speaker001:] yes [speaker002:] and with uh with with it being that way it ends up costing us so much money so much more to have the death penalty than to not have it that uh I'm almost inclined to say do away with it [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] the the problem that I see is uh what do we have instead [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] here in Georgia uh we don't have a a sentence of life in prison without the possibility of parole [speaker001:] yes [speaker002:] if someone gets life in prison they are generally released in seven years if they behave well [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] and we have had people get out in seven years and commit uh another murder uh that just shouldn't be so but I say uh I could tolerate getting rid of the death penalty if we could have life without the possibility of parole [speaker001:] yes right right I tend to agree with you uh I'm kind of uh torn between two items however I I definitely believe believe in due process that if a person is found guilty so that we're not ramrodding a a guilty verdict on them that it's uh up for review in uh the appeal process however I tend to agree with you that well I don't tend to agree with I definitely agree with you that there are people that are going to make sure that every T is crossed every I is dotted and to make sure that everything is just right otherwise you know someone gets off on a technicality now [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] not only in the courts is that costing us money and millions and millions of dollars and wasting our taxpayers and uh clogging up the courts but also when the uh the detectives the homicide detectives and so forth when they're researching when they are gathering the evidence they're they're bending over backwards uh in typically what I believe is an open and shut case where the guy is guilty there are seven eyewitnesses they saw it happen they have testified what happened um [speaker002:] there's video tape of it [speaker001:] they yeah exactly exactly and the guy is as sound mind and and so forth he's he's not an idiot uh he wasn't acting I I don't know you know in that case [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] we're we're spending money in the in the judicial system we're spending money in the law enforcement area trying to verify all this kind of information and the and the individual's guilty I believe that if we have cash capital punishment that it should be executed swiftly that it should uh be taken care of not after seven levels of appeal but after a couple levels appeal of appeal uh under certain certain circumstances [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] those circumstances would be

[speaker001:] so what do you think [speaker002:] um well I think uh there's been significant change over the last couple of decades uh I guess I would say that one of the most um important changes seems to be um that the family the definition of family is changing a lot [speaker001:] yeah oh yeah no doubt about it the nuclear family and just the whole downsizing approach [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] you know a lot of people are are are not having kids are not having kids as as early or as many [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] you know and that's yeah that goes hand in hand with some of the stuff that I had you know like maybe the whole emphasis on the environment and on social kind of a social awareness approach to where people are starting to think about pollution and trash a little more and uh and the ozone layer and things like that [speaker002:] right yeah exactly [speaker001:] it's really putting some constraints on your whole uh the whole lifestyle which is [speaker002:] it seems to me it seems to me like um like everyone is lamenting you know the loss of the nuclear family and saying that it's going to be the downfall of America but to me um [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] I don't know I guess that that's that's probably a pretty liberal view but I mean to me the the old um traditional nuclear family um seems to only work seems to work real well uh you know when uh husband is in charge of the family when he's working when mom's home taking care of the kids [speaker001:] um-hum yeah [speaker002:] and you know as soon as mom gets equal rights and she can work too then all of the sudden you know there's all these constraints on the family I mean face it it's basically [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] an old um you know religious construction so um it's it's [speaker001:] sure yeah see to me it [speaker002:] no I I actually I actually think um it's it's better the way it's working out I I think [speaker001:] yeah I'm [speaker002:] I think that when each person is is working that uh it makes for more it makes for like two dependent people [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] and two independent people who are sharing their lives rather than one person dependent on another person seems to me uh [speaker001:] um-hum it could be I'm I'm kind of a conservative uh myself although I don't know I've got mixed views I come from a very very conservative family where there are you know it's like you mentioned you mentioned it's like you described the first time [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] um where the the husband's in control the wife stays home raises the family things like that however [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] I don't think that's a realistic approach anymore especially with the the rising cost of living and things like that there's there's almost no way you can make it with a one income family anymore [speaker002:] yeah it just seems that way [speaker001:] um you know regardless of the of the social impact or the the familial impact you got to think about just the pragmatic side of it in terms of how can you afford to raise however many kids one or nine [speaker002:] exactly [speaker001:] um with one income and it's never going to work I don't think um [speaker002:] see I came from um a pretty conservative family too [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] but the uh thing is that it didn't work out and my parent's split up so maybe that's what yeah maybe that's what um influenced my view [speaker001:] oh really yeah my parents yeah my parents fought like cat and dogs um they they did stay together finally and they've been married like forty years now but [speaker002:] right right [speaker001:] I know I know what you mean because there's there's a lot of stress in that kind of an environment where the husband's gone all day and comes home at night and like the wife is like the first thing she hits him with is all these problems you know so both sides are are under a lot of stress that way [speaker002:] right right [speaker001:] I don't know I was [speaker002:] of course of course when both um parents are working the big question is you know who how how do the kids get raised [speaker001:] exactly you know that's something my sister's having to face right now they've both got they've got working parents both of them and it's like they're always shuffling them off to day care [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] and you've got to ask yourself whose morals and whose values are being you know enforced on my kid [speaker002:] exactly exactly um-hum [speaker001:] you know they come home and start swearing like a blue streak wait a minute I didn't teach them that stuff you know [speaker002:] one system that um is interesting that that we we may take in that we might be good might be good for us to take into consideration is um in Israel they have this you heard of that [speaker001:] no I haven't [speaker002:] where the kids are it's kind of like of like uh a community school I guess where you know all the kids um it's kind of like a boarding school I guess and they're but they're raised by adults who sort of act as [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] their parents you know because I guess in Israel um you know that happens a lot too that the women are working and or in the army or something like that well um [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] um I don't know it seems [speaker001:] that's kind of interesting [speaker002:] seems to work really well and they somehow they um do it in such a way you know that they they pass on morals pretty well

[speaker001:] Do you use credit cards a good bit? [speaker002:] I do, and I wish I didn't [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Uh. [speaker002:] Before I got married, uh, about the only credit cards I used were gas cards, because I didn't like carrying, you know [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] the cash with me all the time, but I just never wanted to get into the hang-up of using credit cards and [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] having all those bills hanging over my head. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] In fact, I remember getting my first MasterCard, and the only reason I got it was, you know, there was a while [speaker001:] Okay. [speaker002:] years ago when you couldn't cash a check [speaker001:] Absolutely. [speaker002:] without like a MasterCard or VISA. [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] And so that's why I went ahead and got one. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] It was a mistake [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Yeah. Well, actually, I, I have a whole wallet full of credit cards. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] I don't use them very often. Um, oh, I may use, I try to use at least one gasoline credit card a week, and try to use a different one, so that, [breathing] you know, I have, [breathing] keep those active. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] I have a half a dozen department store credit cards, and I, I'll use those if I need to run in and buy a dozen pair hose right quick [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] or something like that, just enough to keep them active. My biggies are the VISA, MasterCard and Discover. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] And for the most part, I had used those for like, uh, charging airline tickets, [lipsmack] where I can pay for those, you know, you could [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] make the transaction over the telephone, or I fly Southwest a good little bit, which means I can just run that card through the machine. [speaker002:] That's right. [speaker001:] Uh, and it saves a lot time. And that's what I was using it for. However, we had a, had a, a very pressing financial family crisis, which said you have no alternative, you must have the money to do this with, and you do not have any other options [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] so I charged all three of those cards up, and right now I am paying and praying. [speaker002:] [Lipsmack] I know how that goes [speaker001:] But, uh, [speaker002:] and that's exactly what we've, I mean [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] I have to say I have been thankful for them, because there were times when [speaker001:] Uh-huh [faint]. [speaker002:] it was just like that [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] when we had to have the money [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] we had no way around it [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] and the only way to do it is go get, you know, an advance [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] on a card [speaker001:] Uh-huh [faint]. [speaker002:] and so like you were paying for it, but [speaker001:] Well, I never did, [speaker002:] it's one of those I'm glad it was there. [speaker001:] Right. I never did use it for an advance. Most of my charges were, uh, medications. [speaker002:] Oh, I see. [speaker001:] Didn't have cash for the medications [breathing] or it was, uh, the doctor would accept MasterCard or VISA. [speaker002:] Oh. [speaker001:] And, uh, [speaker002:] [Lipsmack]. [speaker001:] a lot of times you can get by using those for, uh, uh, different labs will [speaker002:] What, [speaker001:] use those charge accounts for, [speaker002:] Do you find now, though, that even some doctors won't? I've found some doctors that say, you know, I was so used to doctors or medical care places taking credit cards, and so many of them don't anymore. [speaker001:] Uh-huh [faint]. [speaker002:] So, [speaker001:] Well, I have not, like I said, that was just one period in my life where that was critical. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] I don't generally charge. I say well, I need a checkup in six months, and I kind of set that aside [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] and just pay for it. I'm reimbursed on insurance anyway, and I can handle, you know, paying for it and waiting two or three weeks. [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] Getting into a credit card fiasco is easy. [speaker002:] Oh, it is [whispering]. [speaker001:] It is easy, and it's very difficult to get out. I just cringe every month when I see those interest charges. [speaker002:] I know. [speaker001:] I say wow, I, I ought to go to the credit union and borrow the money and pay this off. Big deal, I'm saving two percent. [speaker002:] Right. But, you know, the interest, even though it bothered me, it didn't used to bother me so much, because, of course, you could list it on a Schedule A and you got all your interest, you know [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] towards your tax [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] deductions, and now they've messed that up to where it really is a financial burden to have to pay it. [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] And but it, but it is easy to get into a credit card problem, and I, I think about young people that think, you know, there's kind of that feeling of hey, it's so neat, I have my first credit card [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] and, and they just don't understand that you still have to be able to make the payments. [speaker001:] Oh, yeah, and [speaker002:] You know. [speaker001:] it's not just paying back what you've charged, it's [speaker002:] That's right. [speaker001:] paying that and half again. [speaker002:] That's right. [speaker001:] Uh, you send in, uh, uh, fifty dollars, you're going to pay twenty, twenty-five in interest charges. [speaker002:] That's right. [speaker001:] You only get half of that paid for the principal, so I'm looking at three or four years before my balances are cleared on those charge accounts. [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] Now, as the monthly payment, uh, I mean as the monthly payment amount goes down, that will free up more cash where I can continue to make the larger payments. [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] Uh, as long as I don't have a major disaster where I have to use it again, I can, I can do that. [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] Meantime, though, I'm not building any reserves. [speaker002:] No, and that's frightening to me. [speaker001:] Anything that I could be put aside into savings is going for interest on those cards. [speaker002:] That's right. That's frightening, too. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] Uh, I, I just, I, my husband is in business for himself [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] I work for T I but he doesn't [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] and, uh, [lipsmack] we're, uh, I, I've kind of got my fingers cr-, crossed. I've learned when you're in business for yourself, that, that you don't count on something until it's happened [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] you know, but he's got some, you know, it's those once in a lifetime cases, and after ten years he's got two of them [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] and they should pay through next month, and, and we're both just looking at each other every night going man, that will pay off like both of our MasterCards, you know. [speaker001:] Oh, right, right. [speaker002:] And, you know, just in one lump, because that's the only way you can do it, is to have a big chunk of money [speaker001:] Uh-huh, [faint] uh-huh. [speaker002:] or it's like you say, you pay forever. [speaker001:] Uh-huh, uh-huh. [speaker002:] And so I'm really looking forward to that. [speaker001:] Well, you either need a big chunk of money or you need a large reserve [speaker002:] That's right. [speaker001:] so that if you do charge on that account, you can make a single lump sum payment. Now, those are very handy [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] if you have the reserves and you can make lump sum payments, sharp, good [speaker002:] Sure, yeah. [speaker001:] no problem [speaker002:] I agree. [speaker001:] because you're living on the other guy's money for a while. [speaker002:] That's right [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] But I can promise you that those credit card companies are going to ride high on my money [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] I know and, [speaker001:] And it just irks me. I say my gosh, I had to work three hours just to pay the interest on this, and I've got three cards. I've lost a whole day of my life [speaker002:] I know. You're like [speaker001:] to interest. [speaker002:] what am I working for today [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Yeah, yeah. And that just blows my mind. I, my house is paid for, my car is paid for, I've got some home improvements, but even the payment on that doesn't equal the payment on one of those credit cards. [speaker002:] It's incredible. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] Boy, I wish I could say that my house and, well, my car is paid for now. It was wrecked three weeks ago, but, but you see again [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] the credit cards came in handy. I had to have the money to pay rental car, pay this, pay that till the insurance company pays back. [speaker001:] That's right. I think [speaker002:] And, uh, [speaker001:] that is a good, healthy, safe use [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] of credit cards. [speaker002:] Because you know that's coming back to pay it off. [speaker001:] Uh-huh, uh-huh. Uh, I went to a seminar, they said don't ever use your credit card for consumable items. You only use credit cards for investments. [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] I said for crying out loud, if I had the money to in-, you know, [LAUGHTER] [speaker002:] It's, [speaker001:] if I could do some investing, you'd have to invest at better than twenty percent earnings in order [speaker002:] Sure. [speaker001:] to pay for the payments on the credit card. [speaker002:] That's right. [speaker001:] That doesn't make a bit of sense to me. I thought [speaker002:] That's right. [speaker001:] God dang, where is his pencil? [speaker002:] Well, the smart half was don't pay it for consumables, don't, you know, if you can't afford to go to a restaurant and eat out and pay cash, don't put it on a credit card [speaker001:] That's right. [speaker002:] you know, and, and so that, that is the smart half. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] But, uh, and I can remember before we had kids, we did that a lot, but it was no biggie [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] you know, because we could pay it off, while after kids, and you're paying child care and other things, all of a sudden it's not so easy to pay off, so we cut that out real quick [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Uh-huh, uh-huh. [speaker002:] And, uh, but I, I do like having them there. There is a bit of security in having the credit cards and knowing that in times of crisis, they are there to use [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] but you have to have a very good sense of saving, and or [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] common sense not, not to [speaker001:] Uh-huh [faint]. [speaker002:] get yourself in trouble. [speaker001:] You also have to have that willingness to commit to that [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] because you're committing a good portion of your life and income when you do it.

[speaker001:] Okay. What do you think about it? [speaker002:] Uh, well, immigration, I know they're really strict right now because my hundr-, husband is from out of the country and, uh, we had to go through a whole, very long process to, uh, to, assure the government that he was, uh, marrying me [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] and not to be a resident here. [speaker001:] That's interest-, yeah, I think that's, uh, I think it's a little crazy. I worked with Spanish people [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] for about two years and just, it was incredible to me to see the things that they had to go through when they were really some of the best workers. [speaker002:] Yeah, that's true. I mean, you can't just come over to the country because, uh, you want to. [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] You know, that's not good enough. You have to have a, have to have a darn good reason of, political or whatever. [speaker001:] Right, exactly. [speaker002:] Not a good, not a good easy way to get in. [speaker001:] Yeah, I think, you know, I think in a lot of ways the law is good because it tries to, to protect, you know, the people who are in the states. [speaker002:] Exactly. My mother, uh, actually knew a woman [breathing] in another state that used to marry men [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] just, n-, she'd never even meet them and she'd just get money for it. [speaker001:] Oh, you're kidding. [speaker002:] Huh-uh. So, uh,- [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] [Breathing]. [speaker001:] Sounds like a lot of fun. Yeah, it's amazing to me how, how many things they would allow to occur before, you know, you can come in. [speaker002:] Exactly. But, I mean, with the new laws, it's [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] it's tough now. [speaker001:] Yeah, it's kind of frustrating, too, for those who are legitimate now. [speaker002:] Exactly. [speaker001:] You know, I think, [speaker002:] Well, and, you know, uh, my grandparents came to this country just wanting a better life, you know [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] and they got here, but now it's a, you know, it's so strict that you can't just do [door] that. [speaker001:] Right, exactly. And I think it's important that they, you know, they allow a good number of people in every year because really they're the ones who work the hardest and do the jobs that, that we don't want to do. [speaker002:] I agree. [speaker001:] And I just, I don't know, I have, personally I have a problem with it, I think, that, you know, if someone wants to come in and they can prove that they're going to work and they're going to be a good citizen that [speaker002:] Exactly. [speaker001:] we shouldn't close our door. [speaker002:] If they're not going to be on welfare or, or, or whatever. They're going to be a productive citizen Zen. [speaker001:] And, you know, I, I believe that if someone goes on welfare that's when, you, you know, send them back to their country. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] And, I think a lot of times we're so busy trying to keep them out that we're spending twice as much money as we would just allowing them in and, [speaker002:] Well, think of how many illegal aliens have, have, have been, uh, uh, sent back to Mexico just to find their way back. [speaker001:] Yeah, and that's, that's what I think. You know, I, I have to laugh because, like I said, I worked with a lot of those and they'd been deported two or three times and just basically what they do is they get caught when they wanted to go home for Christmas. [speaker002:] That's right, that's our money. [speaker001:] Or for any other time. [speaker002:] Yes, [breathing] that's true. [speaker001:] But, I think, you know, I think all in all there's a lot of improvements. I think the general idea is good but, but there could be some work done in the area. [speaker002:] I, I think I, I agree. [speaker001:] Well good [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Anyway, do you have anything else in the, the subject, uh [speaker002:] Uh, I, uh, boy [speaker001:] that you might want to talk about? [speaker002:] this is spur of the moment, uh, but, I, I don't really see any, any changes that I think of really blatant right now other than I think they ought to take, you know, on a case by case basis and not necessarily make it a, uh, political refugee. [speaker001:] Yeah, absolutely. I think a lot of times we take, you know, basically who we want to because if you, if you have connections, it's a lot easier to get in. [speaker002:] Exactly. Connections and money. [speaker001:] Yeah, and I think, you know, it should be more of a thing that's based upon someone's intent, you know. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] And that it should be equal to all and then not like the United States, basically, it's not who you know, it d-, it doesn't become a thing of who you know, but, but how the type of person you are. [speaker002:] I agree. [speaker001:] And it should be based on those kinds of things so the good people, like probably your husband, can get in [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Yeah [LAUGHTER]. Well, we got him past that, but, uh, [LAUGHTER] [speaker001:] Well, great. [speaker002:] I know there's a lot of other people out there, [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] would probably do a good job here. [speaker001:] Yep. Well, let's see, is there anything I believe in [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] I think that's it. Is this like a very short call? [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] No, I'm not sure how long they're supposed to be, but, I've enjoyed it. It's good hearing your, your point of view and I think that's neat. I think we agree a lot on that and [speaker002:] I did, too. [speaker001:] I've learned something from it. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] Well, it was nice talking to you. [speaker001:] Well, thanks, I'm glad you're home. You have a good evening, all right? [speaker002:] You, too. [speaker001:] Thanks, bye-bye. [speaker002:] Bye.

[speaker001:] Okay. I think the first thing they said, I have written this down so it would, is it p-, do you think it's possible to have honesty in government or an honest government? [speaker002:] Okay. You're asking what my opinion about, [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] whether it's possible [LAUGHTER] to have honesty in government. Well, I suspect that it is possible. Uh, I think it probably is more likely if you have a small government unit where everybody knows everybody. [speaker001:] Right. That's a good point. [speaker002:] But, uh, other than that I think maybe it just depends on how you define honesty. [speaker001:] That's an int-, you know, that's interesting. I had read something one time and it was just applying to governments in general, it was written many years ago. It said that it's impossible to have a completely honest system of government because people who choose government for their positions are power seekers. And I thought that was interesting. It wasn't just talking about our government. It was just government in general. From times past, you know [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] on and, [speaker002:] So they're saying that government officials would tend to be power seekers. [speaker001:] Right. And that would be a next question to ask. How many do you think are in there for pub-, for bu-, * I think utt's 3 and 4 should be a single slash unit because they want to be a service to us or are they in there for their own gains, and personally I feel it's probably, there's probably some of each. [speaker002:] Right. Yeah. But I think maybe a lot of them, um, say the more honest ones who are still looking out for themselves, it may be more matter of not what can I steal while in an office but how many friends can I make while, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] I'm in office. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] And, you know, how good a name can I make for myself and so forth. So I guess it would be like anything else. [speaker001:] [Very faint] Yeah. [speaker002:] The president of General Motors probably has the same, [speaker001:] Oh, yeah. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] And they talked, uh, the other, let's see. Third question was how m-, serving for their own gains do you think goes on, then they, that's hard to answ-, I'm sure there's a lot. But I agree with you, there's a lot in business. I think that's just, I think that's very normal, [speaker002:] I think I-, [speaker001:] that we should not ex-, I think, I think we put too much on politicians. We expect them [LAUGHTER] to only be there to serve us, you know. [speaker002:] I think a little more honesty in the campaigns would be, [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] more to the point. If you knew what you were getting when you voted, uh, [speaker001:] That's a problem, isn't it? [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] It's interesting because I'm taking a Texas government class right now, and one of the things it's so easy to blame them to a lot of times I think it's our own fault. They lie to us because we don't want to hear the truth. [speaker002:] Yeah, they say you, [speaker001:] And it, [speaker002:] get the government you deserve. [speaker001:] If they tell us the truth, we don't elect them and, [speaker002:] Uh-huh [throat clearing]. [speaker001:] Especially with all this fron-, co-, stuff coming up here lately about people's past, and I don't know why anybody would want to get under that scrutiny anymore. [speaker002:] It's hard to imagine. [speaker001:] Because it's, [speaker002:] [Throat clearing]. [speaker001:] I think it's gotten just care-, well, we're not talking about issues we're talking about somebody's personal life and, and we're getting away from what we ought to be looking at [throat clearing]. [speaker002:] Yeah, and it almost seems like in order to avoid, uh, some of the scandal, you would have to have the kind of wife that you would only find, on, say in the Bobsy twins or, [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] something like that [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] You know, I also think it would be funny if we could know everything about the people that were in there and throw them out. I don't think there would be too many left [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] So you're taking a government course? [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] At what? The university? [speaker001:] Uh, at, uh, it's T C J C. Tex-, Tarrant County Junior College. [speaker002:] Oh. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] Okay. [speaker001:] And it's really, it's really enjoyable. I like it. And then they also, you know, ask can we eliminate, do you think we could make laws to eliminate all corruption, and I don't think we can make laws to eliminate anything anyplace totally. [speaker002:] You can make laws against corruption [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Yeah, but that, [speaker002:] But that doesn't eliminate it, does it? [speaker001:] doesn't mean, I don't think making laws will stop it. I mean I don't know how many laws you would have to have. I mean, [speaker002:] Well, they've got laws against cannib-, cannibalism but that didn't stop that guy in, * seems that a new slash unit should start at the conjunction "but" [speaker001:] No, sure didn't, [speaker002:] Milwaukee, did it? [speaker001:] did it? [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] So no, I think you can legislate but I think there's no way that you eliminate it all by legislating, and we would end up with so many more laws that, you know, I mean I just think that's human nature that you're going to have corruption in government, in business, personal life, I mean, you know. [speaker002:] [Throat clearing] Actually, I think other countries may have it worse, uh, the Japanese government is always having a, some kind of a scandal. [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] Usually involving the Prime Minister or people very close to him. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] So, uh, [speaker001:] Yeah, I still believe I get very fed up with government sometimes but when I think about where I'd want to go, you know, this is still the best or I can, [speaker002:] Yeah, I've been around to a few other countries and I, uh, I, I have not found one yet that I would rather live in. I think, uh, [speaker001:] Yeah. Yeah, at its worst I think we've got the best.

[speaker001:] okay [speaker002:] well have you ever had uh had a family reunion oh [speaker001:] yes and uh let me tell you this is really neat thing to do too that they did I didn't do it some of the other people the older people organized it and what they did was they had uh a book made up [speaker002:] uh-huh oh [speaker001:] and it was like when our ancestors first came over [speaker002:] no kidding [speaker001:] and then what they did was they asked every family to write something about their family [speaker002:] huh [speaker001:] and like how many kids you had and who you had married and you know it went through like and it showed who my uh well who my husband's parents were you know and who he married and then how many children we had and then like his brothers and sisters and it went through the whole family and stuff [speaker002:] uh-huh oh that's so neat [speaker001:] and it was so good [speaker002:] oh great [speaker001:] yeah but it it really did you know and plus plus it got a lot more people interested in it because you got to participate sort of [speaker002:] um-hum yeah so so did everybody send in their information then they made a book up about it and then you could get it at the reunion [speaker001:] right um-hum right and everybody got a book that came to the reunion and it told like uh you know where the first Connally's came over and um [speaker002:] oh nice um-hum um-hum [speaker001:] it told what happened when they got there and how many kids they had and it just kept coming on up through the generations so it was really that was really neat and [speaker002:] wow that is neat so do you have a big family [speaker001:] well he does he does I don't but uh he has enough relatives to make up for me not having any [speaker002:] oh he does yeah that's kind of how my husband and I are I have a kind of a big family and he just has himself and his brother and his parents and that's it so he had to kind of get used to us when we first started going together [speaker001:] uh-huh yeah that's what that's what happened when I when I first uh met my husband I said this can't be you know nobody can have this many relatives because a lot of them lived in like a group you know down one highway [speaker002:] uh-huh uh-huh [speaker001:] and there was a lake and they all lived down there by it [speaker002:] oh how nice [speaker001:] and so we were going down the highway you know and he kept saying this is where my uncle and this is where my aunt lives and my uncle you know and we and I kept thinking [speaker002:] oh my gosh [speaker001:] this guy is putting me on nobody has this many relatives you know so but they really were all there and another thing that's real good about um [speaker002:] yeah how funny [speaker001:] family reunion is having everybody just cook whatever is their specialty and bring it at because nobody it seemed like liked the same thing [speaker002:] um-hum um-hum um-hum oh [speaker001:] but you had a choice and then you got to taste a lot of new dishes and stuff too and got get a lot of good recipes where if you set a certain thing and say okay we're going all going to have fried fish or we're all going to have fried chicken [speaker002:] yeah yeah yeah yeah [speaker001:] everybody might not like that [speaker002:] not be able to do it so did people come like from out of town to the reunion or they did did you put them up in other peoples houses or did you have hotel rooms or how'd you do it [speaker001:] oh yeah yeah they came from all over um they just stayed with different ones of them they just came down and like say okay this aunt and uncle Kip uh all their kids and their grand kids and everything and then they had it it it gotten so big that they had it at the church [speaker002:] they did um-hum um-hum oh really [speaker001:] and they had a church service ahead of it you know and then they had uh [speaker002:] how nice [speaker001:] then they ate out on the ground [speaker002:] and they just brought food with them [speaker001:] um-hum um-hum [speaker002:] did they just have like over a weekend is that how they did it uh-huh well I'm real curious because my family I didn't sound I don't think my family is as big as your husband's I don't think we'd need a whole church but um [speaker001:] yeah um-hum [speaker002:] the problem is we are all really scattered around there isn't any one place where most of us live so if we ever had a reunion we'd kind of all have to stay in a hotel I mean you know there'd be one person who lived there that would have a house but they couldn't put everybody up so it I think it would get kind of expensive [speaker001:] but you know what you can do at a lot of these lakes and things if you could find a centrally located like uh say it's about the same distance for all of y'all to come they have these places where you can rent them [speaker002:] um uh-huh [speaker001:] and it you know like on a lake and it's like uh it's a big place I mean you know it got and it got little rooms that separate off of it and stuff and it's not very expensive that a way [speaker002:] uh-huh uh-huh uh-huh oh you mean so oh I see so everybody could stay together yeah a house or something [speaker001:] right it's like a they have like a a convention type thing and then it has little rooms off of it where you know you'd go and sleep at night time but then it has like a kitchenette and things like that but you [speaker002:] uh-huh oh see that would be great because then you could spend so much more time together than if you all were in your own hotels or something and then every time you wanted to go eat [speaker001:] right and another [speaker002:] with somebody you'd probably have to go to out eat or something it would run into a lot of money so [speaker001:] yeah but they had that was you know that [speaker002:] that sounds like fun [speaker001:] what you can do is you can uh write different places the Chamber of Commerce and tell them what you're interested in and ask them what they have you know at area lakes and all [speaker002:] um-hum um-hum um-hum yeah [speaker001:] if they have something like that because now every time we plan anything just about we write to the Chamber of Commerce of where we're going because you can find out so much easier that a way than try to locate it you know [speaker002:] um-hum you get a yeah [speaker001:] calling different places can really really run you up a bill but uh if you can find a centrally located place where everybody would have to come about the same distance I mean you can't get it exact you know usually [speaker002:] yeah oh yeah [speaker001:] but uh and then everybody goes that place and me it's not bad at all [speaker002:] uh-huh uh-huh [speaker001:] but they have lot of times they'll have like uh little cabins and three or four or five families can stay in those cabins because they have you know just the single bunk beds and stuff [speaker002:] um-hum uh-huh [speaker001:] and they can all stay in those cabins and then you know you can have cookouts and stuff like that that doesn't cost you as much [speaker002:] that'd be great that'd be really nice [speaker001:] yeah but that's uh you know that's the best way I found because whenever you have something where you go and now we had one [speaker002:] yeah that soun d good [speaker001:] this was before I lost a lot more of my family but it wasn't any of my immediate family anyway because I didn't have any of them left but um they had uh uh [speaker002:] uh-huh uh-huh [speaker001:] thing where you could everybody could come and meet and go out to eat [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] but I didn't think that was as good because it was like you know you couldn't really talk and stuff like you could when you was at the lake or somewhere you know where you were out this was like ev erybody came into town and went to this restaurant [speaker002:] yeah yeah yeah yeah right and you have to sit at a table and just yeah [speaker001:] yeah and it just I didn't like that one as well [speaker002:] well um did you was it hard to decide what who to invite and who not to invite I mean did you have to draw a line or did the people that had that reunion have to draw a line like they just whoever wanted to come [speaker001:] no what they did was well see what they did was okay they uh wrote they wrote to all the initial people you know the the oldest ones [speaker002:] uh-huh right [speaker001:] okay then those in turn got a hold of these other ones and they had like I think there was four or five different people that would call [speaker002:] um-hum um-hum um-hum [speaker001:] you know some of them if they didn't have their addresses and all on and you know they told them that what we had to do was when we sent back in our information we had to tell them how many people were going to be coming [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] you know and then when they when they talked to us or when they sent us the letter it uh you know to get the information and all it asked you know will you be willing to bring and you had to check off what all you would be willing to bring [speaker002:] right right uh-huh oh I see [speaker001:] and so really there wasn't any problem with that's the reason it ended up in a church because I mean there was just so many of them [speaker002:] there yeah yeah [speaker001:] but it turned out so much better like that because everybody knew they knew ahead of time how many people to expect [speaker002:] yeah right [speaker001:] now if there was a sickness or something like that I mean you know you're not going to lose that many [speaker002:] sure sure no that would just be a few but how about like because of divorce and stuff like that like my parents are divorced and they're both remarried and you know there I mean there's I don't know [speaker001:] right okay well well see then okay if you wanted them both to come then you would put you would have put that down on the list and you would have sent you would have been the one that sent their invitation to them and ask for their information [speaker002:] yeah yeah yeah so then I I'm kind of like in control over who comes of just from my family [speaker001:] to send back to those other people right because once it went to the the oldest people and then they knew who they wanted to invite then they sent their little things to us okay it was up to me [speaker002:] yeah yeah um-hum [speaker001:] who I was going to you know whether I wanted my kids and you know my any of my family to come [speaker002:] right right I see I see that's a pretty good idea to do it that way [speaker001:] so and then you know it never did like if I didn't want somebody to come then I just wouldn't send them one of the questionnaires [speaker002:] um-hum right right right well that's a real good idea huh [speaker001:] so there really wasn't a problem that a way well but I tell you what that's the neatest book we've got course we've got well you know we've still got it and they charged us I think it was like [speaker002:] I bet [speaker001:] it was like five or six dollars I can't remember exactly you know that we paid for the book to be printed and it's not uh it's not a hard back book it's just a [speaker002:] um-hum yeah yeah um-hum [speaker001:] oh like a you know folder type thing but it has the entire you know it has everybody that you could ever imagine and some you couldn't [speaker002:] uh-huh how neat yeah I know that's really neat that's really neat [speaker001:] and it'll be something my kids will have you know just like [speaker002:] I was just thinking of that what you could tell your kids [speaker001:] yeah because if you stop and think I don't know if you're like me but I know very little about before my grandparents I mean very very little about it [speaker002:] um-hum um-hum I just the thing is I know a lot of stories but I can't remember who it was about my grandparents told us when I was growing up and even when I was an adult they still tell all kinds of stories about their parents and their cousins and their friends best friends because they all grew up in New York City but I can't you know so I remember these stories but I have no idea who it was that was in those stories [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] so I I mean I couldn't give an accurate I couldn't tell my kids what you know those people were like I just remember they have some funny stories but I don't know who it was [speaker001:] maybe what you could do if you couldn't get into a full family reunion and you wanted to go back some but then usually when you find out some information from like your parents [speaker002:] um-hum um-hum yeah [speaker001:] then you can find out from you know you can find somebody else that can tell you something else about these [speaker002:] the rest yeah

[speaker001:] hobbies tonight okay well let me go ahead and press one [speaker002:] yeah sure [speaker001:] okay Leslie I'd like to find out a little bit about your hobbies what do you like to do in your spare time [speaker002:] well and when I have my spare time I do enjoy [speaker001:] that's a cherished commodity now days huh [speaker002:] that's right um I do enjoy uh sewing uh hand you know I do some needlepoint [speaker001:] oh great [speaker002:] and I I've been doing a a picture for my father-in-law that if I I ever get enough spare time he might see it one day and and some other things I like to do are is music and um also reading [speaker001:] uh-huh what kind of music [speaker002:] so well I enjoy singing yeah [speaker001:] oh okay well great I enjoy music too and I uh one thing that I like to do uh is sit down and and play the piano I can't play that well but I uh sit down and enjoy playing musical selections that I familiar with [speaker002:] um [speaker001:] my famuel family's familiar with I enjoy that uh couple of hobbies that I also have is uh I enjoy I really enjoy bike riding [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] and the biggest hobbies I have right now are my kids and whatever they're involved in [speaker002:] yes hm yeah [speaker001:] like my uh oldest boy is involved in soccer so we go out and play kick the soccer ball around or play uh throw the football and uh they also like to ride bicycles so we're riding bicycles and so a lot of the hobbies that I have right now are are centered around my my children and also things that my wife and I like to do [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] together and uh so personally lot of the hobbies that I had when I was growing up um in going to college and so forth are have changed [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] I really enjoyed uh mountain climbing I really enjoyed skiing um and a lot of outdoor activities and uh there's not a whole lot of mountains here in in Texas I can go skiing with that right now but hopefully I'll be able to get back to the slopes someday so [speaker002:] that's right yeah I I've not had the opportunity to to go skiing but I grew up in Arizona which had some mountains around it but uh [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] never did get out and ski [speaker001:] you didn't [speaker002:] no I never did didn't have the I guess I didn't have the person out there saying hey let me take you skiing and of course I was at that you know stage of my life where I had to be taken places places I couldn't go by myself but [speaker001:] yeah that's true that's true [speaker002:] and then of course then once I got to the age where I could've done it myself I had other interests I guess so [speaker001:] oh yeah I guess that for me it was very helpful my two oldest brothers were very interested in skiing [speaker002:] oh yeah [speaker001:] and so we we went quite often and uh in fact my brother still does a lot of skiing and when I lived around in that area my brother would fly in from Chicago and we would we would go skiing and enjoy that [speaker002:] um-hum um-hum [speaker001:] so but uh luckily it's it's kind of unusual because hobbies it's a it's a nice thing to have and it's it's good to fall back on those hobbies when you have time but like you mentioned and I am finding out a lot of the spare time that I had isn't there [speaker002:] that's right [speaker001:] it's uh it's uh taken up by activities with uh work with family with um civic and church responsibilities for me [speaker002:] um-hum um-hum [speaker001:] so [speaker002:] yeah I I find that if I I make I have to make myself to realize that it's important to get out there and not you know just even to go for a walk is good recreation for me [speaker001:] oh yes oh yes oh yes [speaker002:] yeah and my youngest daughter is gonna to be starting up soccer so she's real excited about doing that so we'll we'll be busy with that again [speaker001:] well great what again so you've participated that in the past [speaker002:] pardon me [speaker001:] have you participated participated in that in the past [speaker002:] well I did with my older daughter and she was in it for a few years but she's got so many interests herself that we had to start eliminating and that was first one to go she still likes her piano [speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh [speaker002:] and she's in band so so she's got lots of hobbies or uh activities going on [speaker001:] sounds it sounds like her life is full too [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] I imagine your life is full taking them around all over the place [speaker002:] very much keep that's right that's right [speaker001:] all right all right well Leslie it's been very nice talking to you is there anything else that you'd like to mention tonight or [speaker002:] um no I think we covered it pretty good thank you for calling [speaker001:] okay great well thank you and you have a nice evening bye now [speaker002:] you too bye-bye

[speaker001:] type of music is hot down in Texas [speaker002:] uh well I don't know exactly what's hot down in Texas I know what's hot down here with me so that's about all I can feel apt to discuss with you since I just know I don't ever listen to the radio and that's usually what's hot around here so [speaker001:] oh okay [speaker002:] so what kind of music do you like [speaker001:] uh mostly folk music [speaker002:] folk music [speaker001:] yeah I find myself uh listening to a lot of uh uh either old timer or New England uh dance bands as well as uh just more popular folk music and new artists coming up [speaker002:] uh-huh well we're on totally different wavelengths [speaker001:] okay [speaker002:] I'm I'm more uh old rock and roll uh some new newer I guess you would call it heavy metal rock and roll type [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] you know uh Van Halen that kind of thing any [speaker001:] yeah what about uh classic rock type stations [speaker002:] uh I don't listen to the radio at all we live in a fairly small town so uh classic rock for me is what I have which is like uh Doors Eagles Jimmy Hendrix [speaker001:] oh okay so some some of the older Eagles stuff was good [speaker002:] uh yeah [speaker001:] I I didn't like uh they started getting a little more you know the type of music at at least to me it's uh sounds like it's only sounds good at a high volumes and I don't like listening at high volumes [speaker002:] yeah yeah [speaker001:] but uh some of their older stuff stuff was uh you know quite enjoyable to me [speaker002:] yeah well it's [speaker001:] you know Hotel Hotel California and that era [speaker002:] yeah yeah that does that's something you don't doesn't even sound good loud really [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] so yeah definitely so anything new you like coming out now other than folk music some I might know of I don't know any folk music at all [speaker001:] well down in Texas uh you know little listen to a little country every now and then [speaker002:] yeah oh yeah we hear [speaker001:] I'm sure I'm sure there's a lot of that down there [speaker002:] oh plenty way way more than I can stand down here I I don't care for it at all that Texas twang or whatever you want to call it I [speaker001:] well there there's a Conway Twitty twang then there's the uh Dolly Parton uh Hollywood sound type [speaker002:] yeah yeah that's more even more commercialized form of country music but uh it's getting uh uh getting pretty big everywhere as I see it Garth Brooks is outselling Guns and Roses so it's [speaker001:] yeah yeah I think some of them the artists are even uh hitting the pop charts [speaker002:] yeah it's it's kind of strange that it's getting as big as it is concert tours for country and western singers is it's it's quite quite odd but uh I don't know it's music is kind of going an odd direction nowadays I think it's becoming not necessarily good music just popular music you know it's it's it's [speaker001:] hey I I I think most artists are in to make a few bucks [speaker002:] yeah and that's all it's it's [speaker001:] but they're not in it to say anything or give a message which is what they were do late late sixties early seventies they were they were definitely pushing a message [speaker002:] yeah yeah that's what it it was yeah that's what what you say and and then music is wrapped around now now it's the other way around [speaker001:] yeah and I don't I don't think gun at least to my mind Guns and Roses doesn't have too much of a message too much to say [speaker002:] no no they don't have anything really important you want to hear but you know it's kind of odd it's like doesn't have to be good it's just who does it you know you hear a you hear a Paula Abdul song and you and I think if somebody else were to play that [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] you know they wouldn't they nobody everybody would think that's lousy but because she did it it's supposed to be good you know it comes to the point where it's your name not what you do [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] more than anything Madonna can do anything and it would be considered good because it's Madonna you know [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] Madonna could start playing folk music and folk music would be huge just because Madonna does it so it's it's it's really backwards how things are working now but [speaker001:] uh-huh yeah it it it's the artist not the merit [speaker002:] yeah exactly so I don't know I I don't know that that's I don't think that's a good thing at all but that's that's what the point we've reached so I don't know [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] how how much farther we can digress before we have to turn it around and go the other way at least [speaker001:] well I don't know I know for myself that uh for the most part I don't know which artist is which so I listen to a song I either like the song or I don't like it and then if I really like the song eventually I'll figure out who it was [speaker002:] yeah you yeah yeah that's about how I am on popular music I don't you know you don't I don't know enough about it because I just listen uh everything I listen to is what I buy not whatever they play on the radio so [speaker001:] well you have to figure out what to buy or do you just buy along the same artist and [speaker002:] uh I yeah I just mostly buy along the same lines all the time I don't really switch around to new things very often [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] it's just it's you know it's way to hectic and too confusing it's [speaker001:] yeah so you keep buying the same artists until you don't like an album then you stop [speaker002:] uh yeah generally or about the only new music I hear is somebody else that I know will buy something new that I haven't heard and I listen to it that way but [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] as far as yeah I don't go out on a limb and buy something new very often unless I've heard it [speaker001:] yeah see that's one thing I like about the uh some of the folk music scenes you know there's a couple of nice uh small coffee houses up in New Jersey [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] and it's very nice you go into the coffee house and you know an artist is there and very often the artist will have a demo an album and so if you like the artist you buy the album [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] so you definitely get to try before you buy [speaker002:] yeah yeah that's definitely I that's [speaker001:] though it you you you don't always quite get it right

[speaker001:] Okay [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] Well, considering you moved here from California, I guess, [inhaling] the rain for the past few weeks has been different than what you have down there. [speaker002:] Yeah, we have, uh, in California, I'm in c-, I lived in central California. We have rain couple times a year and other than that, you know, it would be maybe October and then in the spring and then other than that there wouldn't be any rain. [speaker001:] Especially [speaker002:] So, [speaker001:] the last few years. [speaker002:] Yeah, yeah. [speaker001:] It's kind of, it's kind of been a drought out there hasn't it, uh, [speaker002:] Yeah, there has. So here, I know that, uh, last year there was some ice storms while I was out of the state and I'm glad to see there haven't been any this year. [speaker001:] Yet [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Yeah, yet [LAUGHTER]. Still could come, huh. [speaker001:] Generally if we're going to get them, it's not going to happen, uh, prior to January one. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] You may get a cold snap or two or some rain or something like we've been getting in December, but [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] usually the bitterest weather, if we're going to have any, comes in January and February. [speaker002:] Um. [speaker001:] Then by March things are getting warm again, so we really don't have, as long a cold season, I guess as people up north. [speaker002:] Yeah, yeah it's so hard to predict here. [speaker001:] It's been eighty degrees on Christmas day here before. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Lots of times. [speaker002:] Well, today it's not bad out there. [speaker001:] No, it's nice. I just came in from outside [speaker002:] Uh-huh [faint]. [speaker001:] and it's, it's really pretty. It's kind of nice to have it dry all the ground out [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] before it rains again. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] I'm a, I'm a scoutmaster and so I wind up going out camping with, uh, a bunch of boys at one time and so, it's [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] better for us if it hasn't been this totally wet before we go [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Yeah. So you do that even in January, huh? [speaker001:] Oh, yeah. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] Yeah, we camp year round. [speaker002:] Yeah, oh, that's [speaker001:] But, uh, [speaker002:] interesting. [speaker001:] It's, uh, [inhaling] it's definitely different. [speaker002:] Uh-huh [faint]. [speaker001:] And then, I guess you've been through a couple of summers here, too, right? [speaker002:] Yeah, I have and they're not too pleasant [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] It gets so humid. To me it's humid here. People that I know that [speaker001:] Oh, it is. [speaker002:] come from, uh, like Georgia or [speaker001:] It's not as [speaker002:] North Carolina, [speaker001:] humid. [speaker002:] Yeah, they say, it's, [speaker001:] As Houston, say, or Atlanta, but it, [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] But [speaker002:] But I find it, [speaker001:] more humid than Arizona and California for the most part. [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] Were you northern California? [speaker002:] I was central California. [speaker001:] Central. [speaker002:] Central valley. [speaker001:] So that was, [speaker002:] It's very dry there. [speaker001:] Dry, but pretty even climate, wasn't it? [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] Year round, fairly, [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] Not wide fluctuations. [speaker002:] Well, it's pretty hot in the summer. It's in the usually, you know, for a good three, four weeks we have over a hundred degrees. [speaker001:] But it's a drier, [speaker002:] But it's a dry heat, yeah. [speaker001:] Hundred [LAUGHTER], when you have a hundred here, everybody's dying [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Uh-huh, yeah, I know. Well, I lived in Africa for a couple years in [speaker001:] Oh. [speaker002:] Cameroon and that's a tropical climate and it really feels similar to this [speaker001:] What types of, [speaker002:] during the summer. [speaker001:] What type, what type of business takes you to those climates or was that just vacation or something? [speaker002:] No, I was, uh, working with, uh, I still work with Wycliff Bible Translators. [speaker001:] Oh. [speaker002:] It's an organization where we are looking to translate the BIBLE into languages of the world that aren't yet written. [speaker001:] Not so much still trying to translate old texts as just trying to translate modern versions into other languages. [speaker002:] Right, languages that don't have anything written yet. So this is like the first thing that's written down or [speaker001:] Oh. [speaker002:] you know, first an alphabet is developed and then, uh, [speaker001:] That's interesting. [speaker002:] So, [speaker001:] You don't think about that as a career, a normal career, uh, when [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] you're thinking of things that people might be doing. [speaker002:] Yeah, well, it's based here, uh, the international headquarters for Wycliff Bible Translators is right here in, in Dallas. [speaker001:] So you're, you're with the home office now [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Yeah, right now I am. That's what brought me here, yeah. [speaker001:] Well, the, uh, I think, uh, all in all there are a lot worse climates than Dallas, uh, the weather [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] you know, does change fast and things do happen severely a few times a year, but there's an awful lot of good weather, too, in [speaker002:] Yeah [speaker001:] between. [speaker002:] I agree, I agree. I, I thought the fall was really nice. [speaker001:] Yeah, and usually a lot of the spring months are really nice, too. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] After the last freeze and, and when it begins to be in the sixties and seventies most of the time, uh, I [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] like that. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] Particularly if I'm going to be outdoors [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] and doing, uh, outdoor activity, hiking and things. And that's [speaker002:] Yeah, you probably do a lot of that with [speaker001:] nicer. [speaker002:] scout [speaker001:] Yeah, I [speaker002:] scouting. [speaker001:] do quite a bit of that [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] Think we're going in just a couple of weeks out to the, east Texas, and it is a little more humid out there than it is here, so [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] I guess we'll, [inhaling] the only thing you have to watch out in this part of the country is during the change type seasons is the really severe storms that occasionally [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] come through out here on the plains. There's not much between us and the North Pole [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] And then when you get one of those tornado type [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] systems through or severe hail or thunderstorms and then,

[speaker001:] Okay, all set. [speaker002:] Good morning [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Good morning. Let's see, music, um, well, I play a couple of instruments. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] I try to. [speaker002:] What do you play? [speaker001:] Um, clarinet is my primary instrument, and I also play a little bit of saxophone, flute and piano [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] when I get the opportunity, which isn't very often. [speaker002:] Really, that's too bad [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] How about yourself? [speaker002:] I play, uh, the violin [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] and play trumpet [speaker001:] Uh. [speaker002:] and I run a municipal band and I sometimes conduct. [speaker001:] Oh, wow. [speaker002:] So, I'm pretty busy too. I play in three different symphony orchestras. [speaker001:] Wow. [speaker002:] We have a [speaker001:] That's great. [speaker002:] nice big one here in State College, called the Nitny Valley [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] Symphony. I play in the Altoona Symphony, was about forty-five miles away [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] and I play in a slightly smaller one called the Lockhaven [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] Symphony and Community Orchestra. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. So are you a professional musician? [speaker002:] No, I'm, uh, just retiring from Penn State University [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] only I, I should, [LAUGHTER] should have been. I spend about half my time playing music or preparing for it somewhere. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] But, uh, I've been working at, uh, Penn State [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] and using up all my nighttimes, [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] and weekends [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] uh, going to these orchestra rehearsals and, and concerts and so forth. [speaker001:] Uh-huh, I understand, yeah. I'm in one community band here, and that's just, well, we rehearse once a week. We generally have a concert every other week and, [speaker002:] You have one that often. [speaker001:] Yeah [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] That's amazing because [speaker001:] That's a lot. [speaker002:] I, I, I have it set up here that we have at least six to seven rehearsals per concert. [speaker001:] No, we sure don't. [speaker002:] Wow. [speaker001:] Well, one thing is, we have a summer ser-, summer series, and every single Sunday night we play at the library to have a little [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] out, outdoor stage set up [speaker002:] Oh. [speaker001:] and so we do that every Sunday night [speaker002:] You are busy. [speaker001:] during the summer, yeah, and then, I don't know. We just have an awful lot of engagements, and we're just having to turn a lot of people down, um, because, you know, uh, we don't want to do things like have a concert back to back or even two days in a row. [speaker002:] Where do you get all this music, I mean, you, you must back up and play some of the music twice. [speaker001:] Oh yes, definitely, [speaker002:] [Throat clearing]. [speaker001:] we really do. You know, you get your little Sousa book and you just flip [LAUGHTER] through it, and that sort of thing. [speaker002:] Oh, okay. So your, you don't play pretty well a full concert band music most of the time then. [speaker001:] It really depends on who shows up. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] Um, and it's always a mystery, because it actually doesn't matter who shows up, it matters what instruments they brought, because so many [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] people switch instruments so often. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] But, um, yeah, in the winter we do more concert stuff and, [speaker002:] How many people in your band? [speaker001:] Um, I think there's about seventy. [speaker002:] Seventy. [speaker001:] Yeah, there's a lot. [speaker002:] Holy mackerel, that's. [speaker001:] But, on any given night there's not seventy [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] you know, it alternates quite a lot. [speaker002:] Boy, that is a huge organization, that's great. [speaker001:] Yeah, it really is. [speaker002:] Because about the best I can normally hope for is about fifty [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Oh. [speaker002:] in, in the band I have here. [speaker001:] Yeah, well. [speaker002:] But that fills a stage and keeps us busy, but [throat clearing] they were, half have been professionals from, uh, a lot of them are from, uh, faculty at Penn State here. [speaker001:] Oh, okay. [speaker002:] And so they want to play things that, uh, push them to do. So that's why we have to work real hard when we get a concert together. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] We have about four concerts per year indoors [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] and two or three that we play outside. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] And the last one we did was in a large, uh, mall close here, we played Christmas about an hour out in this mall. [speaker001:] Uh-huh, uh-huh. [speaker002:] So that worked out very nicely. [speaker001:] Yeah, that's fun. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] Well, let's see. Well, there's another band around here. Someone at work is trying to get me to join that one, because they need clarinet players [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] and their concert schedule isn't as heavy, but they have more in the summer, I think they have ten in the summer, you know, one, one week after the other. I think they're like Monday nights [speaker002:] Wow, that. [speaker001:] and they don't have rehearsals during that time period. [speaker002:] Are you just saying you, you sight read every concert? [speaker001:] Uh, well, it's not really sight reading when you've done it, you know, again and again and again, but [speaker002:] Okay. [speaker001:] some people are, yeah [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] some of them are. [speaker002:] And where, where does this happen, Laurie, is this in Dallas? [speaker001:] Well, they're in the suburbs of Dallas, in Richardson and Plano. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] We're real close to Dallas. [speaker002:] Well, I declare. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] That's amazing. [speaker001:] Yeah, well, it's more of a, I think it's very much more of a social group than anything else, you know. [speaker002:] Okay. [speaker001:] And, and people always bring refreshments for after rehearsal and [speaker002:] Okay. [speaker001:] hang around for an hour or so and, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] That's probably why we get so many people. [speaker002:] Do any of your, you, in your group get paid for any of this? [speaker001:] Um, well, the conductor gets paid a little bit, you know, we do get some money from the city [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] because we do play at a lot of city events. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] Um, I think he's the only one that gets paid. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. And you do have to buy your music. Who, who sponsors you basically, the city? [speaker001:] The city, uh-huh. [speaker002:] Yeah, uh, my band is sponsored through what they call Parks and Recreation. [speaker001:] Yeah, it's a similar thing. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] I can't remember what they call it, but the same type of thing. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] Um, but we do get an awful lot of music, you know, we can borrow music from any of the area colleges [speaker002:] Yes. [speaker001:] or, you know, if some, some group just isn't going to play any more, they'll just give us their music, and that type of thing. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] And we do an awful lot of, you know, we don't charge for any of our performances, but we get a lot of donations. [speaker002:] Well, I, I work the same way [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Yeah [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Well, I'll be darned. It's amazing.

[speaker001:] so Rick you thinking about buying a new car [speaker002:] um-hum yeah I am uh a truck [speaker001:] a truck uh Japanese or American [speaker002:] yeah I think I'm going to buy American this time [speaker001:] you you this time you had a you Japanese [speaker002:] yeah I got a yeah we got a Toyota two of them actually [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] they uh they've always been real good cars but it's just uh [speaker001:] they rust [speaker002:] well I actually haven't had any problem with them at all but um I I think it's probably pretty important to uh to buy American I've I'm coming to that conclusion [speaker001:] you know I it's like I'm I've been driving like foreign cars now for for years and I I'm actually thinking about buying a new car I I [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] I'm sitting I'm sitting here right now it's like my with a thousand dollars worth of repairs on my car and uh I'm thinking about buying an American car also [speaker002:] uh-huh uh-huh yeah [speaker001:] um I I think they're to the point now where they're just they're just as good as those foreign cars [speaker002:] I yeah I do too I I think uh I've I've had pickup trucks before and I've had uh Chevrolets and they were pretty good but I I think uh Ford um is is pretty much focusing on quality [speaker001:] that that's the best uh actually uh a guy that like's in next office he uh he's thinking about buying a truck and he's looking at an F one fifty and uh [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] he he he one thing that you find about the about the the F one fifties is that uh they are every every the word is out that they are like the best truck uh especially like if you want to get like you know heavier than a mini pick up and uh they weren't cutting too many deals [speaker002:] is that right yeah um-hum [speaker001:] with uh with the prices on the F one fifties especially especially like in the in the four wheel drive models [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] but uh I I I guess like all these people can't be that wrong you know in terms uh of uh of how they how they are [speaker002:] yeah yeah I was looking in uh it was uh I I forget the name of the magazine used to be Changing Times sort of like a Consumer Reports magazine [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] and uh they were saying that Ford Ranger was the number one selling truck counting all [speaker001:] now the Ranger is that the Ranger is below the one fifty it's like a it's like a three quarter ton truck [speaker002:] yeah um-hum yeah something like I believe something like that [speaker001:] and was is and the and the F one fifty is a ton and a half or or I'm not sure where they sit [speaker002:] yeah I'm not sure I I I kind of think I'd like to go with uh something around a a one fifty I don't want a full size but I don't want uh one of those little uh mini trucks either [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] besides I probably would look at something uh maybe a a V six [speaker001:] yep you geing to get a King Cab [speaker002:] you know yeah [speaker001:] yeah that that that know do you have any any kids or anything [speaker002:] yeah I've got one little girl and and and a set of golf clubs so [speaker001:] oh there you go yeah you you you you got to have you got to have just that extra space [speaker002:] yeah yeah yeah that's it [speaker001:] it yeah the uh the it's a a buddy of mine he just he just bought a truck and uh and and it was a thing was like it would there was no thought whatsoever about not getting the extra size cab even though you can't really use use that back area for a seat [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] you know unless you're some like some kind of contortionist [speaker002:] yeah uh [speaker001:] but you just need it because you do carry you do carry stuff that you you don't want to like just throw in the bed [speaker002:] yeah yeah I I kind of like the looks of a short bed but or the short cab but but uh you know like I say just you you just really need the extra space [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] either unless you have some sort of a cab you know cover or something but [speaker001:] yeah you'd get air-conditioning because you're down there it's pretty hot right [speaker002:] yeah um-hum [speaker001:] uh-huh that uh [speaker002:] although uh I I notice you you you said rust right before that that we don't have that much problem down here but I know y'all have it up there I guess they salt the roads and [speaker001:] uh oh boy I'll tell you that's like that's the number one car killer up here is that is the is the rust you know it's like you're you're constantly car taking [speaker002:] uh-huh yeah [speaker001:] about every other every about every month during the winter you know the smart thing to do is to go to like one of those uh drive in car washes do it yourself and just fire a bunch of water underneath underneath you know up into your rocker panels and stuff [speaker002:] uh-huh yeah yeah [speaker001:] because uh it just like I said it it just eats the cars like right alive [speaker002:] yeah I guess I I as as was working with some people from Buffalo here recently or actually it was a couple years ago but they were they were saying you know a lot of people up there they got a winter car and then a summer car you know [speaker001:] that my neighbor's in the exact same situation situation it's like he uh he has he has two cars one of them is a is a a Mitsubishi you know uh uh I don't know what is a Starion or it's one of those hot cars and uh [speaker002:] yeah um-hum [speaker001:] it's like come come November when the roads like start to get you know to get nasty the Starion goes like into the into the garage then he closes it and locks it and then he [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] he throws he he pull he throws a tarp off of this beater that he's got in the backyard [speaker002:] yeah out comes the sixty eight Nova [speaker001:] and I think it's a it's actually like a it's like an eighty two no no yeah it's like an eighty two Toyota Corolla you know [speaker002:] yeah uh-huh [speaker001:] and this guy goes through this like role you know this revert Doctor Jekyll and Mister Hyde revert

[speaker001:] did they mention our topic [speaker002:] yes vacation spots [speaker001:] okay right anything anything in the area of types of vacations you've been on lately you've really enjoyed [speaker002:] well I I guess probably my favorite thing to do is to go to the beach um and my most favorite place to do that is San Diego uh I love San Diego very much but this past summer we went to um Gulf Shores Alabama and had a great time there [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] the beach was beautiful and and that was really uh a nice place to go so that's that's probably one of my most favorite places to go how about you [speaker001:] well I'm a lot the same way we uh I was raised well West Virginia but also Virginia and I spent an awful a lot of time on the Virginia Beach area and I sort of love the water I've always loved the ocean so I enjoy going to the beaches myself as far as a favorite beach um probably Myrtle Beach is as as more of a younger person I haven't been there for years I'd like to go back and see how it has changed but I enjoy Myrtle Beach I enjoy Padre Island right here in Texas but I enjoy pretty much any beaches [speaker002:] uh-huh I've I've heard that Myrtle Beach is wonderful I have friends who think that that's the best place in the world I've I've never been myself but uh you know I've heard that it's a wonderful place to go [speaker001:] well I haven't been right haven't been for twenty years myself but [speaker002:] oh [speaker001:] one of these days I'll go back and see how nice it is I'm sure it's just as nice as ever as a as a high schooler and a college kid it was a great place to go it was the big weekend place and things like that especially in the summer the place to go in the summer to get a [speaker002:] yeah sure [speaker001:] you know a summer job and to spend your dollars and uh have fun and everything [speaker002:] sure well also one of my I was thinking another one of my favorite places is uh Santa Fe uh have you ever been to Santa Fe New Mexico [speaker001:] no I haven't [speaker002:] well it's wonderful [speaker001:] oh I'll bet it is [speaker002:] yeah it really is a beautiful place and for the past two falls I've gone there I've made two trips to Santa Fe it's sort of becoming an annual thing for me uh I go by myself I go without my family and uh if [speaker001:] what do you do [speaker002:] uh pardon [speaker001:] what do you do while you're there [speaker002:] well I basically uh I love to visit churches there are wonderful churches in Santa Fe it's a real uh it's just a wonderful area and this past year I went to a fabulous uh monastery [speaker001:] uh-huh right [speaker002:] uh that's out in the desert uh out in the hills of Santa Fe I also went to one of the Indian pueblos this past year and that was just wonderful [speaker001:] yeah my wife would probably enjoy I mean enjoy we'd probably enjoy that also are you Catholic [speaker002:] no I'm not [speaker001:] okay we're we're Catholics so we'd we'd definitely definitely enjoy all the old churches [speaker002:] oh you'd really enjoy it then well you would love it because I have a very great appreciation for uh the Catholic church and for Catholic churches and all the ones I visit are Catholic uh [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] one of the places that I went to is a little place town called Tamayo it's out of Santa Fe [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] and they have there's a sanctuary there there was supposed to be some uh miracle healing that occurred there and it is just a fabulous place I I I just love Tamayo and it's about thirty minutes north of of Santa Fe and [speaker001:] oh no kidding we'll have to maybe give that a try sometime [speaker002:] well I'd highly recommend it particularly if you're Catholic I think you'd have a great appreciation for it [speaker001:] if you're a a water person my wife still says the best vacation we ever went on with our kids and as a family was we went to one of the Jack Tarr Villages in the Caribbean and we went to one the one located at Puerto Plata [speaker002:] did you Puerto Plata [speaker001:] and you know that's the most reasonable vacation we were ever on we just opened the paper one morning four or five years ago and it said round trip all included seven days hotel food all you could drink just every party everything it was almost like a cruise [speaker002:] ah uh-huh [speaker001:] but uh it was like five ninety nine so we said let's do it so we packed up everyone four of us plus my son's girlfriend we all went and it's probably not like I said not only the most reasonable vacation we were ever on and everything was paid for it was just glorious I mean the water was fantastic you get they had pools they had beaches people were so courteous the lodging was fantastic the food was just like being on a cruise ship [speaker002:] huh [speaker001:] everything from Baked Alaska right on down and all this for five hundred and ninety nine dollars it was [speaker002:] uh-huh I mean that's unbelievable the price [speaker001:] oh it is unbelievable and we keep saying that one of these days our kids are getting older now they're in college and uh be getting married and whatever so we doubt we'll ever have the opportunity to go back with our with our kids but but we're certainly going back but [speaker002:] with your kids [speaker001:] that's probably one place that we really enjoyed [speaker002:] now that didn't include your airfare did it [speaker001:] that included everything airfare lodging every meal I mean if you were a heavy drinker you could sit there and drink twenty five or thirty drinks a day or whatever you wanted I mean just it was everything [speaker002:] gosh good grief [speaker001:] and it was just a a Caribbean type of surrounding very tropical just uh entertainment every night I don't know if you've ever been a cruise ship or not but it was exactly like being on a cruise ship [speaker002:] yeah I've been on a cruise ship [speaker001:] and we were on four cruises and uh

[speaker001:] you wanna start or you want me to start [speaker002:] well go ahead if you're [speaker001:] okay personal interests in computers basically nowadays it seems like you can't get by without one everywhere I go it's got some kind of computer interface like pressing on keyboards uh pressing in personal identification numbers all the ATM machines things like that I personally don't own one because I can't afford one uh every time you look in a friend's houses and they show you their computers and all the knickknacks they have it seems like they go from their basic computer to all these peripheral devices like uh modems and fancy printers or lazy printers and fax machines and games that they like to play course I I was impressed by some of the games they have like flight simular game simulator for the different aircraft [speaker002:] yeah well that's uh actually you might guess you could say even more than just a game it's uh similar to the one they use at uh for training [speaker001:] very close to it I understand except for the bouncing around it [speaker002:] well I have a I just got a I used to use a TI PC at work now I just got a 386 uh computer PC [speaker001:] you using it mostly for spreadsheets or do you use it for like word processing [speaker002:] uh well I use it uh in my business I have to uh tie into the mainframe and also into a uh minicomputer a 990 so I use a terminal emulation in uh talking to other computers plus word processing I do quite a bit of that and it's uh that's supposed one of the features of the the new one the 386 it's got Windows on it and so you can toggle back and forth between uh applications and you know get a get a lot quicker in and out used to be you had to log off then log back on the other application [speaker001:] yeah I use a Z248 286 at work but it's basically to tie into the communications network then through our communications network we go to our mainframe on the base there [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] and use the Unix operating systems [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] use their VI editor and we use um read on line news through it and we also have terminal emulations through IBM thirty two seventy eight [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] and I don't know I just don't I don't even use the hard disk drive to to copy any floppy disks or anything like that I just basically use it for a a window into there to the Unix world [speaker002:] um-hum yeah uh we're supposed to be getting a fifteen hundred minicomputer pretty soon [speaker001:] uh is that IBM or is that an IBM type [speaker002:] replace our 990 huh uh no it's a TI made 1500 it's a a minicomputer uh it's a newer version of the nine ninety which is one they had it uses uh Unix as one of the operating systems but uh [speaker001:] I'm familiar with Unix commands like um copying files and compressing them things like that I just have a fun time using their mainframe at the base but [speaker002:] well Unix to me I mean uh that System Five I mean that's pretty looks pretty uh user unfriendly [speaker001:] it's like a different language all right [speaker002:] uh it seems like they sure uh I got a lot of stuff to learn I haven't used it that much so [speaker001:] yeah we can use System Five or we can use um C shell you know I like um I favor C shell over the other [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] I think I think most of our users like Bourne shell because they were trained in it and they just don't wanna learn something different [speaker002:] that uh that's a powerful force once you that's a powerful force once you learn something you you tend to wanna stick with it [speaker001:] pardon oh yeah plus everybody in your office knows it and as the new people come in they kind of help each other out but you have different people with different backgrounds and they have a hard time sharing information [speaker002:] that's like I learned uh DFM and PFM you know Professional File Manager which is can be used as a word processor it doesn't it does everything I need moves splits you know all that but uh doesn't have some of the little fancy stuff like underline caps bold I mean bold and all that so uh that's other than that it's you know perfectly suitable for most things I do [speaker001:] yeah the disadvantage disadvantage of VI editor you can't see all those fancy things I have another thing called Q-Office from Quadratron back in California that people like to use but it's a very slow system [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] and I understand it's only on like we use a Gold 9050 and that's basically their format they use for word processing and they're trying to push people into using either WordPerfect

[speaker001:] have you had any uh major uh car repairs done recently [speaker002:] well as a matter of fact I just got rid of a car because of the requirement to do some major repairs [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] um I had a Ford Escort with about ninety five thousand miles on it and the engine was shot um I I think the problem was uh the head gasket needed to be replaced and um but nobody would do just the head gasket everybody wanted to overhaul the engine entirely [speaker001:] so you're saying that the repairs would have cost more than the car was worth [speaker002:] right and um um I did get the water pump was shot at the same time so I got the water pump fixed just to carry me over until I could sell the car um which I which surprisingly the car was in great demand um in fact I had a bunch of people come to look at it and they were fighting over how much they were going to pay me for this piece of junk I was amazed [speaker001:] I think any car that runs right now is in demand [speaker002:] I guess so um but I ended up buying a um a used car to replace it I got a uh eighty five Dodge Aries which only had thirty four thousand miles on it and uh speaking of repair problems um this car has a has an interesting problem that nobody seems to be able to fix do do you fix cars [speaker001:] uh I work on my own I've got an nineteen eighty Trans Am that I've had uh since it was new [speaker002:] wow [speaker001:] and I've had very good luck with it uh haven't had many repairs done at all the alternator went out four years ago and uh the I had to replace the water pump back in nineteen eighty three but uh other than a few transmission leaks that I got repaired uh I really haven't had anything but uh regular maintenance [speaker002:] yeah but do you do anything yourself I mean [speaker001:] yeah I change the oil and I do the lubrication [speaker002:] yeah okay [speaker001:] but if any major problems say like uh transmission leaks I took it in for that [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] and I had to have an alignment done last year so I had that done [speaker002:] yeah yeah I don't think that's the kind of thing you can do yourself is it unless you had the equipment [speaker001:] uh not really it's not too easy I had past uh state inspection uh just last month so and I had a turn signal out so I had to take it in to get the turn signal fixed but uh other than that for passing inspection uh they gave me a shopping list of things I needed to get done [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] namely uh replacing putting the catalytic converter back on the car [speaker002:] oh [speaker001:] and fixing the emergency brake [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] so those things I could do myself it wasn't a problem [speaker002:] yeah what now what state are you in [speaker001:] Texas [speaker002:] Texas you're in Texas so am I um yeah the the problem I have with this Dodge uh this Dodge Aries is that if I drive the car for reasonable period of time enough to get the car heated up and then I run to run out to do a quick errand and jump back into the car it won't start [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] and it won't start until the car is cooled off I've learned that and as soon as it cools cools off it'll start right up [speaker001:] I had that problem with a nineteen sixty eight Camaro [speaker002:] what was the problem [speaker001:] I never did get it fixed [speaker002:] oh [speaker001:] it it could be the starter that it just gets too hot [speaker002:] yeah yeah somebody said that um that uh there must there's probably some kind of short in the starter and that when the car heats up it uh the metal expands to create the short and then it it it isn't until the car cools down that the metal you know these two pieces aren't touching any more and and uh and your you you know then it'll start because you don't have the short [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] but I've taken it to a mechanic and and he started to look at it in fact I drove it out there and I said I bet you anything if you go try start the car right now you won't be able to start it sure enough he couldn't and they had to push it into the garage but they started uh tracing the wires back to see if they could find any shorts or anything and after they fiddled with the wires the problem didn't uh didn't recur recur they couldn't get it to fail [speaker001:] hm [speaker002:] and sure enough after I'd taken it home for you know a couple of weeks after that I didn't have the problem but now it's starting to recur again [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] so it's just one of those weird things I mean he was willing he said well I think it's in the ignition switch it'll only cost you eighty five dollars but I won't guarantee that's the problem [speaker001:] right they never do [speaker002:] uh yeah and I'm going well well I don't want to gamble so I just let the car cool off until I get a hard failure [speaker001:] uh-huh I've heard of that problem with many other different cars doesn't seem to be prevalent with just one manufacturer [speaker002:] and then uh yeah well that's that's that's reassuring I've never had a Dodge before and I mean it seems like a nice little car it's a great deal it only had thirty four thousand miles on it and otherwise it doesn't give me any problems at all [speaker001:] I won't buy a Dodge [speaker002:] you won't oh yeah [speaker001:] my dad had one he had a Dodge [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] six hundred and after thirty thousand miles the head gasket went out [speaker002:] oh really Holy mackerel [speaker001:] nothing but problems with it so he finally traded it in and actually bought a Ford Escort [speaker002:] oh jeez I've you know I've actually had a lot of luck with Fords um um I'm not gonna I'm not gonna sit here and claim that they're the best cars in the world but [speaker001:] oh a lot of people do like Fords yeah [speaker002:] yeah I mean this this Escort even when the head gasket went I mean it would start first time every time [speaker001:] sure [speaker002:] and uh uh so I've I've just been real pleased and my step father happens to work at a Ford dealership and that makes things a little easier come car time but [speaker001:] yep I'm ready for a new car myself but I've had this car for eleven years and it's given me such little trouble that I I I don't think I could get an adequate replacement that would uh cause me to let huh [speaker002:] yeah yeah I just uh I was just talking to somebody who'd had a some kind of I think he had a Cutlass and he had a hundred and ninety five thousand miles on it and finally the thing finally went so he goes out and he buys a Lexus [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] and I'm going whoa he he moved up [speaker001:] I guess that's what about thirty forty thousand dollars [speaker002:] yeah I mean you know he's single he's approaching fifty years old [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] he doesn't really have anything else to spend his money on [speaker001:] I guess not [speaker002:] so but uh I can't I just can't imagine I mean are those cars worth thirty or forty thousand dollars [speaker001:] I have no idea I know they're they're engineered very well but I would have a hard time justifying spending that kind of money on any car [speaker002:] really well it's funny because talk about car repairs I was getting my oil changed and I was sitting in the little lobby it's one of these you know five minute change places and this guy comes storming into the lobby there and he says um you know you guys advertise a twenty dollar oil change and you charged me thirty dollars and the guy says well yeah but you got a Mercedes Benz and it takes a special oil filter [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] and the guy was oh yeah he's almost proud that he had to pay an extra ten bucks to get his oil changed I'm going [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] I don't think that's worth it I don't think spending an extra you know twenty thousand dollars for a car is worth it you know I don't know [speaker001:] no dealers will get get you on the oil changes anyway I took my car in one time many years ago for an oil change at the dealer and they charged me thirty dollars for it [speaker002:] yeah oh yeah oh jeez [speaker001:] they they gave me this cock and bull story that because there was a turbo charger on the car they had to prime the turbine with the oil [speaker002:] what [speaker001:] and it's it's it's a bunch of hog wash I I've changed the oil myself I've put a filter on you know put the oil in and all it's no problem at all [speaker002:] yeah yeah yeah I couldn't I tried to do that with my Escort but there's no way to change to get that oil filter out without that I could figure out without getting underneath the car [speaker001:] no I have to get under my car to get the oil filter out but yeah you change it four times a year it's not that big a deal filter you can buy that on sale for two dollars uh the oil um less than a dollar dollar less than a dollar a dollar a quart it's really not that [speaker002:] ooh yeah yeah oh yeah I'd prefer to do it but the Escort was very difficult for me to get under and I didn't want to put it up on ramps or anything it just made me nervous [speaker001:] uh-huh right [speaker002:] I mean can you crawl underneath there or is it [speaker001:] well I can get the filter off just by laying down underneath the car I can't crawl under it the clearance isn't enough but enough to reach under and get the filter off it's not a problem [speaker002:] hum yeah I just couldn't yeah yeah I think this uh the the Dodge would be pretty easy to change the oil on I think [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] at least I'm going to give it a try cause you can see I mean the oil filters I mean you can touch it it's right there [speaker001:] uh-huh for anything else I'll put the car up on jack stands [speaker002:] you've got jacks it makes me nervous [speaker001:] oh yeah when putting the catalytic converter back on I had to put the right side of the car up on jack stands [speaker002:] whoa whoa [speaker001:] but it wasn't a real problem [speaker002:] yeah yeah hm well I I you know it's just a that's the biggest hassle I think that if I had been nicer to my Escort and been more diligent about getting the oil changes and doing that kind of stuff I could have probably gotten another ten thousand miles out of it [speaker001:] yeah every three thousand miles I'll change the oil I've got about ninety four thousand miles on the car right now [speaker002:] yeah wow wow [speaker001:] and uh its working just fine I don't have any problems at all so I'm going to keep it uh I get offers every now and then from [speaker002:] gee yeah [speaker001:] from grocery store baggers that want to buy my car because it's a Trans Am they're high school seniors seventeen years old and they got to impress their girl friend [speaker002:] yeah all right [speaker001:] the trouble is they think they can buy it for a thousand dollars or less [speaker002:] right right well I bet you I bet I mean if it's in good condition and stuff you could probably get a pretty good blue book price [speaker001:] yeah it's in great shape uh body is in excellent shape it just needs paint I need to look up some place to uh to get the car painted [speaker002:] well the paint paint job yeah if you're going to look a new car what would you look at [speaker001:] a new car [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] oh I'm not I don't think I'm in the new car market a new car that really hard pick [speaker002:] well what what what brand I mean what model would you look

[speaker001:] I'm sorry, um [speaker002:] That's okay, I didn't hear. [speaker001:] hobbies. [speaker002:] Okay. [speaker001:] Let me see, I don't know if that took or not, I'll do it again. [speaker002:] Okay. [speaker001:] [Beep] Okay. What are your hobbies? I hear you have kids, right? [speaker002:] You heard her in the background [LAUGHTER]. That's babies. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] That's your full time, uh, hobby, right? [speaker002:] Takes a lot of time, huh. I like, uh, most sports. I like to do that. I kind of like to do a little bit of sewing. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] Oh, little bit of embroidery work, once in a while. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] What do you like to do? [speaker001:] Um, I try to do some painting, although I'm not very good at it [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Well, I'm sure you probably are. [speaker001:] Well, no, not [LAUGHTER] really. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] You like it, that's the main. [speaker001:] Yeah, I, I have, you know, I inherited the genes that make me think I'm creative, [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] but not the ones that give me the ability to be. [speaker002:] That's right. [speaker001:] So, I always try. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] I, I do some sewing, mostly out of necessity. Um, I'm making drapes for my house, just because I'm, [speaker002:] Oh, boy, that's hard sewing. [speaker001:] Yeah, well, it isn't and it is. It is, you know, actually the sewing isn't the hard part, it's just being able to lay out the material and measure it [speaker002:] Measure it and get it to, [speaker001:] because you need so much room. [speaker002:] Well, if it, it depends on how elaborate you get it. If you get pleats and all kinds of, [speaker001:] Yeah, I've been doing that and, [speaker002:] That's a lot of work. [speaker001:] That, yeah, that, but usually have to do the pleats by hand. So that, at least [speaker002:] Oh. [speaker001:] I can do, you know, watching T V or whatever but, [speaker002:] Right, right. [speaker001:] Yeah, and I've, I've gone and, you know, put the needle through my thumb a few times [LAUGHTER], [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] trying to get it through but, [speaker002:] That feels really good. [speaker001:] Yeah, so that's not really my favorite thing to do or anything, but I, I need to do it. [speaker002:] To do it, right. [speaker001:] I have, let's see, I have a dog, and a lot of fish. Keeping fish, I guess [speaker002:] Keeping fish. [speaker001:] is my biggest hobby. [speaker002:] Well, they're probably easier than keeping dogs, though, aren't they. [speaker001:] Um, yes and no. It depends on how frequently they die, and [speaker002:] Oh, no. [speaker001:] how much that bothers you. [speaker002:] How much that bothers you, and you probably have to clean out the tank too. [speaker001:] That's, you don't have to do as much as, as I thought. In fact, my problem, I had fish as a kid and they always died [speaker002:] Oh, no. [speaker001:] immediately, and, what, I'm, what I think now is the reason is I kept the tank too clean [speaker002:] Oh, you're kidding [speaker001:] because you have, [speaker002:] because they need to have a little bit of the, [speaker001:] Right, you need to let the bacteria build up, and then it keeps all the chemicals in balance. [speaker002:] I see. [speaker001:] And I would just take everything out and just like, you know, wash it with scalding hot water [speaker002:] Oh, no. [speaker001:] and it would kill all the bacteria, and that would screw up all the chemical cycles again [speaker002:] And so you'd have to [speaker001:] so. [speaker002:] start all over [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] to build that up probably. [speaker001:] That's right. So now only, I only clean things to make things look more aesthetically pleasing [speaker002:] Right, right. [speaker001:] and I don't try and sterilize things [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Don't go through the whole nine yards and [speaker001:] That's right. [speaker002:] they kind of need a little bit of that. [speaker001:] That's right. [speaker002:] So you've had fish for a long time. [speaker001:] Well, I've had them, I guess it's been two years now I've had a, a tank here, and then back at home I used to have a small, you know, five gallon tank. But that never worked well. And, *slash error [speaker002:] What size do you have now? [speaker001:] I have fifty-five gallons now. *sd [speaker002:] Oh, that's a good size. [speaker001:] It's a lot easier. [speaker002:] Have you ever had it, uh, crack or break or leak. [speaker001:] No [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] No, not yet. [speaker002:] Fifty-five gallons, you'd hope it would never do that. [speaker001:] That's right, I really do. But, you know. [speaker002:] Do you have all kinds of different fish or, [speaker001:] Yeah, I just have, you know, what they call community fish [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] guppies, and platies and, and basic things. I don't get into the [speaker002:] Real exotic. [speaker001:] right, right. The expensive ones. [speaker002:] Well, they're probably hardy, harder to take care of and, [speaker001:] They are. They're very expensive and, you know, when you die, it's like, when they die it's more like an investment. [speaker002:] Yes, I bet it is. [speaker001:] You lost an investment so, [speaker002:] Do you have problems with them, uh, the fish eating each other? [speaker001:] No, not really. Only if there's baby fish. [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] You always have to isolate those. [speaker002:] Then you have to, how do you isolate them? [speaker001:] You get a [speaker002:] A jar or something or. [speaker001:] well, no, they have breeders. [speaker002:] Okay. [speaker001:] It's a little plastic things that sort of floats [speaker002:] Okay. [speaker001:] and you put the mother fish in there and then it's got like a trough underneath her [speaker002:] Okay. [speaker001:] so as the babies come out they fall down in the trough and there's a hole in the middle so they fall into the bottom part of the chamber [speaker002:] Oh. [speaker001:] so the mother can't get to them either. And that's, you know, it kind of works, but it's also got slots in it so the water can circulate [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] and on occasion if you get a real small one, *slash error; one utt with utt2 it'll fit out the slots. [speaker002:] It'll go through the slot. [speaker001:] That's right, so. But, you know, it works, I guess. [speaker002:] That works all right then. They don't, uh, want the mothers to be with the little fish either. [speaker001:] Oh, they'll eat them. [speaker002:] They will. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] Isn't that odd. [speaker001:] Yes. [speaker002:] You wouldn't think that. [speaker001:] It, and it's funny because the one I have, every single month without fail she has babies. [speaker002:] You're kidding. [speaker001:] Oh, no. All the time, and, um, I, and she's supposed to, her variety, it says they won't eat the babies, and I've seen her do it. So. [speaker002:] And that just makes you sick almost, doesn't it? [speaker001:] Oh, it's ter-, well, it makes you understand that, you know, things are different [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Things are different in the animal kingdom, huh. [speaker001:] We might, right. We might decide what's proper and what isn't, but [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] you know, that's the way it is for them. [speaker002:] That's kind of the way they do it. [speaker001:] Yeah. That's it. [speaker002:] Survival of the fittest or something. [speaker001:] Yes, because if the baby is strong enough, it can swim away fast enough [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] and go hide. [speaker002:] Go hide from them, well [speaker001:] So. [speaker002:] and then, you think, well, how did they do it out in the real world anyway [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] when these fish are in the tropicals or wherever they are [speaker001:] Yeah, yeah. [speaker002:] kind of trying to keep up with that, but. If you're like me, you never have enough time for the hobbies. [speaker001:] No, not really. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] I, I try. I also, I play a couple of instruments.

[speaker001:] okay Kate uh do you play golf [speaker002:] um I have played golf in the past I'm not very good at it even though I'm pretty well sports minded um there's something about holding that club in my hand that I want to hold it like a baseball bat [speaker001:] uh-huh yeah yeah [speaker002:] so I can putt but I have a terrible time driving [speaker001:] right that's very similar to me [speaker002:] uh-hum [speaker001:] I just uh haven't taken the time to learn the fundamentals of the game I just go out and try to be Joe Athlete and think that I can just [speaker002:] uh-huh uh-huh [speaker001:] you know use transfer skills from like you said softball or baseball [speaker002:] sure [speaker001:] and I've got that baseball swing and I hook everything viciously so I have to aim like forty five degrees off to the to the right and hopefully it curves back in and usually I end up uh [speaker002:] um-hum uh-huh [speaker001:] going from one side of the fairway to the other and not straight down the middle [speaker002:] yeah yeah like you're supposed to well I even uh took a golf lesson [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] six weeks I guess worth of golf lessons and and I had a terrible time trying to remember uh where your hands are supposed to be and over this way and under that way and keep your legs this way and it was [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] extremely difficult considering how easy it looks when the pros do it and so uh I played for a while that way but I can go play Putt Putt Golf really well that's the kind of that's the kind of stuff I can go for [speaker001:] yeah uh-huh yeah do you watch golf on TV a lot [speaker002:] um I watch some of the things because my father is an avid golf fan he he watches every game he goes out every single day his whole stance [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] the way he walks is a golfer's walk if there is such a thing and so he uh he's gotten me interested in it [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] so I have my own putters and and you know some some equipment but um the only thing that I would probably watch is like things that are local like the Byron Nelson Classic that's coming up [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] um and then there's another one out let me see off of one twenty one coming up pretty soon so I like to watch things that are close uh by to see if there's any names that are familiar with Texas [speaker001:] oh yeah yeah I we don't have a TV so we don't watch much golf [speaker002:] uh-huh no I can't imagine watching much golf without a TV [speaker001:] yeah so we don't go out to the local uh uh golf course and watch amateurs very often so uh uh but you know when I was younger when I was into it I'd watch it [speaker002:] um-hum um-hum [speaker001:] every now and then if if baseball or basketball or something else wasn't on and golf was always the uh [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] the if nothing else is on I'll watch golf [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] because I don't know it's it's pretty it's neat watching I really enjoy watching the highlights like on ESPN Sports Center when they show the great shots and everything I mean that's fun but I don't I'm not up for watching the whole game like I do for baseball or basketball [speaker002:] yes yes um-hum right right yeah well at least with now with the with the sports uh and and the TV is um they can get the camera's just at the time the people are starting to swing so it makes it a little bit faster and um a little bit more interesting but I think it's it's more interesting to go out and watch them [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] uh than it is on the TV and and to follow like one or two people along on the golf course and then you you almost feel like you are in doing exactly what they are doing uh it it's so much more interesting I thought than um uh sitting and watching it on TV I think it's kind of boring yeah [speaker001:] huh yeah so you've been in the gallery before [speaker002:] um-hum uh on the Byron Nelson Classics um was it no it wasn't last year it was the year before [speaker001:] so who'd you follow [speaker002:] uh gosh I can't even remember you know all those names kind of go together after a while [speaker001:] yeah was it like a big name with a big gallery or was it one of the younger pros or something [speaker002:] um let me see because I followed several and I'm trying to think who it is that I was um going along with I don't remember now I mean gee whiz I all I remember was we had tornadoes about the same time and that was the big highlight they were afraid they were going to go down through the center of the the the golf course and that's what I remember the most about that uh but I do remember thinking it was a lot different to be out there [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] uh watching than it was to watch it on TV uh watching than it was to watch it on TV [speaker001:] yeah well yeah you're outdoors and you know it's kind of neat that's the only thing that's what draws me to golf is just you know being outside on a large wide open space pretty much [speaker002:] um-hum um-hum um-hum [speaker001:] and uh well down here it's so expensive I'm from Indiana and up there [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] I I went to Purdue and you have Purdue golf course and if you're a student I mean you can play eighteen holes for like seven bucks [speaker002:] oh wow [speaker001:] on a really you know it's a big ten championship course so it's really well kept and everything else but you know down here it's it's incredible I've [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] I've never golfed down here because it's you know nine holes for ten bucks or something and [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] and by the time I I drill a you know a half dozen balls into a pond or something you know that's that's an extra five bucks right there and so [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] you know it gets kind of expensive for the young college graduate [speaker002:] sure sure well I know uh uh since it's warmer weather down here and you can play almost year round then yeah that's the reason is there's so many people who want to get out and go play golf [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] see my parents live in Ohio and my dad what he'll do is uh he will come down here or go someplace else in the South to where it's warm so he can continue playing golf I mean this is what an avid golf person does [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] it is just so fascinating and then everything we get for him is all golf junk you know the golf hat the golf you know clock everything because he's he's just he is he is a freak when it comes to golfing [speaker001:] golf clock has a subscription to Golf Magazine or something [speaker002:] yeah he uh he's he's really something [speaker001:] that's funny yeah so uh has he always been like that or just in the later years [speaker002:] no see he um it's only been in about the past five years and he's so good we keep telling him he needs to get into some of those senior tournaments and he says oh I can't get in there with Arnold Palmer and all those other good people [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] but I'm saying yes you could you know and then that's where you usually can make a little money and and profit this way uh because his handicap has gotten lower and lower and lower every single year [speaker001:] yeah um-hum [speaker002:] so uh but no he hasn't gone to do that yet but we wish he would you know make a little mega bucks and pass it along you know to the family [speaker001:] well if nothing else just get out there and rub shoulders with the boys [speaker002:] that's right I know get to meet all these stars because I remember sitting on his lap when I was a little girl watching golf he has loved golf really all of his life and but I remember watching it golf with him [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] so yeah this is something that uh he can go and see all these people he's uh got to watch on TV for years and years and y ears and years so [speaker001:] well that's neat [speaker002:] yeah I think so too [speaker001:] so uh you don't see you uh taking up you know and charging being the avid golfer in the near future huh [speaker002:] no I think some of my brothers are going to do that I'm a volleyball person myself yeah yeah I love volleyball so I'm on a TI league [speaker001:] oh volleyball yeah [speaker002:] and uh play with a group of people from here at work but I don't even think TI has well they may have a golfing I don't know they may have a golfing club you know it's possible [speaker001:] I've never really well Sherman's a smaller plant but I've never really seen a golf club but okay I've seen a golf club that's funny but uh golfing club uh [speaker002:] um-hum golfing club yeah there you go I bet you they do but I just you know I hear about things like the tennis the tennis um teams and and uh volleyball and baseball but I haven't heard of golf but I'm sure they probably do [speaker001:] uh-huh yeah well I don't know there just not that many places to play around here from what I hear there's a private club maybe one and there's uh [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] the local junior college has a golf course because it used to be an Air Force base so they've got the old Air Force base golf course and it's like [speaker002:] oh [speaker001:] playing on dirt I mean there's no grass so uh you know it's not too many golfers like there are in Dallas probably [speaker002:] oh no uh-huh uh um-hum [speaker001:] with more courses and more people and probably higher money better kept [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] but I don't know I'm I'm just kind of glad my wife's kind of in to it she's she'll play in it about once or twice a year but that's about it [speaker002:] yeah yeah yeah me too it's not uh not something like uh that obsession I think my father has [speaker001:] well if it's genetic you'd better be careful [speaker002:] I know that's true well it was nice talking with you [speaker001:] likewise and uh maybe we'll get hooked up again sometime all right take care bye [speaker002:] okay okay take care bye-bye

[speaker001:] okay do you vote regular [speaker002:] yeah I do I try and vote in every single election [speaker001:] every one [speaker002:] but uh that's just since in the past say about six years before that I really didn't pay any attention at all [speaker001:] well see that's me I've never paid any attention to voting [speaker002:] oh you haven't [speaker001:] hum-um [speaker002:] yeah I didn't use to but now I really because I get so angry about what goes on and then I feel like I can't really complain too much unless [speaker001:] unless you have something to do with it right [speaker002:] yeah but the problem is that I am very liberal politically and so I hardly ever have anybody that wins that I vote for [speaker001:] oh liberal by what do you mean by liberal um [speaker002:] liberal politically I'm you know like pretty left wing Democrat Democrat so [speaker001:] well see I don't know anything about politics [speaker002:] oh you don't [speaker001:] uh what's the main what's the main difference between Republicans and Democrats [speaker002:] okay well there's a lot of them um depends on what issue you're talking about but Democrats are on a lot of issues are more liberal than Republicans and well it used to be it's kind of hard to say now especially after Desert Storm but um I think back in the eighties times when uh my political opinions were being formed like in Vietnam during the Vietnam war and stuff [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] the Republicans were more you know what they called Hawks which is more like aggressive in war and more pro-war and pro-aggression and um [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] the Democrats were the doves they were more for peace and I'm not sure how much that holds true anymore I think you know the issues are [speaker001:] okay and you vote for the Democrats or [speaker002:] yeah yeah and Democrats usually are supportive more supportive of public assistance programs and and programs to [speaker001:] usually okay uh-huh [speaker002:] um the the big Republican thing is that they don't they vote for less government they want less government involvement in society and so they're more less apt to vote in you know more aid to people or more [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] more uh they're less apt to vote in programs that involve the government running things [speaker001:] huh [speaker002:] so so have you ever voted at all [speaker001:] okay no I never have [speaker002:] you haven't [speaker001:] hum-um [speaker002:] how old are you [speaker001:] I'm twenty six [speaker002:] oh gosh [speaker001:] I know I should I [speaker002:] well [speaker001:] well I don't know much that much about it I don't keep up on it and I don't feel like I have [speaker002:] uh-huh uh-huh [speaker001:] have enough knowledge on it to even you know to pick the right person [speaker002:] yep yeah well [speaker001:] so that's what they need well [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] it uh they said something to improve voting [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] if they could make it more oh easier to find out you know what's going on do you know what I mean [speaker002:] yeah yeah [speaker001:] like uh like to me I don't I didn't know what would have been wrong with I can't even remember who ran for president against Bush I think it was uh that woman wasn't it a woman [speaker002:] Dukakis no it was Dukakis [speaker001:] Dukakis [speaker002:] from Massachusetts [speaker001:] okay didn't he have a woman or wasn't or was that Reagan there was a woman that was running for vice president for a while Ferraro [speaker002:] oh yeah that was yeah Ferraro that was a while ago that was a couple elections ago yeah [speaker001:] okay [speaker002:] yeah that's okay [speaker001:] well well that's what I mean like I didn't know what the difference between Dukakis and Bush was [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] you know I didn't know anything about Bush or Dukakis [speaker002:] so what do you think about uh what do you think about what you see on TV about them like in the news or on the ads do you kind of just [speaker001:] okay I don't remember anything about Dukakis [speaker002:] you don't [speaker001:] but well they're all saying that they're going to do you know whatever is best for their campaign anyway [speaker002:] uh-huh uh-huh [speaker001:] that's what I mean if they had some kind of public programs where you can just go out and I don't know like you know in school they didn't teach you about Democrats uh the government not really [speaker002:] um-hum right you didn't get any government classes [speaker001:] hum-um [speaker002:] yeah it's really hard too because before they used to have um a lot of it seems like the stuff that they put out now it I mean I doesn't just seem like it I know for a fact that the any kind of stuff that if you wrote and asked for material well what do you believe in what do you believe in they don't take any stands on anything they kind of say well what do you want me to believe [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] or they word it so that it's really hard to tell where they're standing on certain issues [speaker001:] well I'm not sure they're yeah I know how they do it it like it with the abortion issues and stuff [speaker002:] um-hum um-hum yeah they have to kind of take a stand on some things like abortion and [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] things like that so that's kind of how I judge there's a few things where they have to say yes or no like abortion or gun control or let me see I try to look at [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] what if some of the newspaper articles or the I don't trust TV as much but newspaper articles can show whether how they voted in the past [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] and but you get you know it all depends again on whose writing it and who they're for because they can slant that too [speaker001:] right and like I said most of the politicians the politicians I'm the also the politicians put out what makes them look good anyway [speaker002:] um-hum yeah yeah [speaker001:] and everybody's got you know stuff they don't want known [speaker002:] right everybody's got a secret [speaker001:] well anyway I'm sorry I didn't I didn't have [speaker002:] so [speaker001:] much knowledge I don't even remember this being on there [speaker002:] well that's okay do you think do you think um I mean what would it take like that this is really good actually that for to talk to somebody who hasn't voted I mean what kind of how would it how what kind of stuff would they would you like them to do so that that you would know more about it like send stuff in the mail or have it at the library or [speaker001:] incentive you I guess that would be good now I'm sure they've got it at the library [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] you know [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] I mean if I get to the library I've got two babies so I don't [speaker002:] oh do you yeah that'll tie you down a little bit [speaker001:] yeah but I I don't know [speaker002:] or do you just not do you feel like it's not really going to make that much difference if you don't vote or [speaker001:] oh I know if enough people think like that it you know would make a difference if people stopped thinking like that [speaker002:] yeah yeah [speaker001:] um well a lot of people they'll vote the way their family votes you know if since you're what Democrat [speaker002:] uh-huh um-hum yeah [speaker001:] then then like your kids or whatever will follow you and just vote Democrat right [speaker002:] um-hum well not in my family we're kind of really independent [speaker001:] I mean no all split [speaker002:] but a lot of families do that I know a lot of wives feel like they have to vote the way that their husbands vote [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] and that kind of keeps from getting a lot of issues resolved golly [speaker001:] I lie hm [speaker002:] but well [speaker001:] I don't know if I did understand politics I probably would vote more but like I said if I voted for Bush or like when uh Gary [speaker002:] um-hum Hart [speaker001:] Hart was running [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] a lot of women would have voted for him just because he was nicer looking not that I think he was good looking but [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] he was young [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] and then I didn't think that was right because he may have been a good president or whatever [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] but because it was he had an affair [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] and it just threw him out of the whole running [speaker002:] yeah yeah [speaker001:] and a lot of people go by their uh personal life when they vote [speaker002:] um-hum yeah [speaker001:] and which I guess if you got turmoil in your personal life you're going to let it come into work but [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] I'm sure there's a lot of people that have had [speaker002:] I think everybody does it just depends on how well you can hide it [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] you know and I that's very true I I think that doesn't really have that much to do with um unless they've done something really horrible you know or something real abnormal [speaker001:] well criminal or something like that's different but [speaker002:] yeah right but otherwise [speaker001:] if him and his wife weren't getting along I mean [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] what is what effect does that have on him running for president do you know what I mean [speaker002:] yeah yeah [speaker001:] it's all so secretive see we really don't see the [speaker002:] that's right [speaker001:] true person anyway [speaker002:] I think that's that's having a big effect on how poorly that the country's being run is that um the the election the people that want to get elected are turning it into a popularity contest by advertising the things that you know that really don't have anything to do with how well they do the job but see they're trying to find an excuse not to deal with what [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] you know the issues that people really want to know about because on those issues you have to say yes or no and if they don't say yes or no then maybe somebody'll vote for them that wouldn't have if they had come down on the wrong side do you know what I'm saying so they just try and make it a personal thing I mean if you remember [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] any of the TV commercials from the last presidential campaign they all had uh pictures of Bush with his grandchildren walking around with his grandchildren and even from Reagan it was all just like looks like a McDonald's commercial you know [speaker001:] uh-huh well what did you think of Reagan as a president [speaker002:] that's about what it looked like I just thought he was really inept I don't think he did anything at all he they just kind of sat him up there like a puppet and the people that were [speaker001:] do you think he won from Carter because of the um the hostages that were held at that time [speaker002:] well I think that was part of it I think there's a lot of the the economic problems that the country was having at the time and the the recession and stuff people just had a picture of Carter as not being real capable [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] but he actually all right this I thought he was great [speaker001:] I thought Carter was good too and that was yeah [speaker002:] did you I always liked him I thought he was great at the time and I I just couldn't get over the fact that Reagan beat him I you know that I just couldn't believe that he got voted out [speaker001:] but I think I wasn't well let's see that's been about ten years ago right [speaker002:] um-hum yeah [speaker001:] okay so I was only fifteen or sixteen but I remember Carter and I liked him yeah [speaker002:] yeah you did have you heard stuff about him lately do you know what he's doing [speaker001:] no I sure don't [speaker002:] well he is just he is really active still politically he's been overseas you remember when he was in office he did a lot of stuff for the Middle East for people

[speaker001:] okay I think we're all set there hopefully [speaker002:] well uh care of the elderly is something that is hitting pretty close to home at me uh right now my father-in-law has uh been diagnosed with terminal cancer and my mother-in-law is in a wheel chair so this is something that I've been thinking quite a bit about lately and uh I'm I feel pretty strongly and the rest of my family does that is long as someone is able to care for uh someone else that they shouldn't be put in a home but there's there's a very hard question of of what happens when someone isn't able to provide that care for themselves um in the case of my mother-in-law she's not able to to bathe herself but she's sharp as a tack at this point and what sort of facilities are available for that person it's hard because you think of a home and you're really thinking of of uh old people left somewhere to uh you know fairly forgotten and that's that's that's a hard thing and I'm sure not all of them are like that [speaker001:] well unfortunately that's the typical picture though [speaker002:] yeah so it's it's very hard to find a facility that would allow uh allow someone of fair degree of autonomy in their life but yet would still be there to help provide some of the basic services [speaker001:] is your mother-in-law currently uh living in a nursing home or anything [speaker002:] no she's not um she's still at home and her son has has moved back into the house uh which which was not as inconvenient as it sounds because uh um my father-in-law and my brother-in-law have a dental lab in the basement so he was working out of the house anyway uh so it it's a little less uh it's it's not all that inconvenient for him but the rest of the kids are scattered uh throughout the northeast and he doesn't want to feel that he's uh he's going to be completely responsible for this only because he happens to live right there with with my in-laws [speaker001:] have you guys thought about the financial burden of caring for your mother-in-law as far as putting her in a nursing home down the road [speaker002:] that that has we've all thought about that fortunately uh that doesn't seem to be a big problem but that we there's some thought that has to be given to to uh to the property for instance they have about four three or four acres in Connecticut and what no one wants to see is uh that land having to be sold off simply to keep her in a in a nursing home what we'd like to do is uh find the sort of place where I try described before where she'd be able to have uh a place of her own but yet also have someone come in a couple of times a day to help her with various various things and have someone there in case she falls or something [speaker001:] well my mother my grandmother is in a place similar to that where she has emergency buttons throughout the throughout the house or actually the apartment [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] and she's about eighty one and she lives she has her own little area for gardening and so forth it's in the housing authority up here [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] and it's [speaker002:] that's great [speaker001:] when she first moved up here she ended up living in uh tall apartment building a complex that was very similar to a hospital [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] a very negative feeling when you walked in the building [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] and now she's been very fortunate in that she's almost almost like living in a small home [speaker002:] that's that's great [speaker001:] and she she still has an a large maintenance staff take care of the place look after her [speaker002:] provide uh [speaker001:] basic busing services and travel [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] uh [speaker002:] I'm hoping that the trend is toward places like that [speaker001:] as [speaker002:] the population in America uh lives for a longer period of time uh I I guess thirty years ago when when you were that age and you weren't able to really care for yourself you really weren't going to uh you know be around that much longer and so the level of care required was was different but now people are are living longer and can uh can have injury

[speaker001:] Well, Tom, just tonight, I was working on my car out of necessity, and I had, uh, uh, had a long age-old problem of my bright lights not working, uh, this is the type of, uh, switch where you flip the, the lever, the turn signal on the column [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] and when I would, uh, put it in the bright light position the lights would go out completely, which is even worse than them just not getting bright [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Exactly. [speaker001:] And I had presumed that it was the switch, and, uh, this is, uh, an older car, it's a seventy-two M G, so I had to mail order the part, uh, which I had done, and tonight I went out and, uh, at least hooked in the new part, only to discover that that apparently is not the problem, it's not in the switch, because it does the same thing with the new switch. [speaker002:] Oh. [speaker001:] So I'll be faced with having to return that product and, uh, hoping that, uh, you know, that they will accept it, although it's been removed from the box it's obviously not been really used. [speaker002:] Did you do the diagnosis, or was it just an assumption that that's probably the part that failed? [speaker001:] Uh, I had done what diagnosis I could, primarily by looking at a wiring diagram that I did have of the car [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] and, uh, pretty much decided that that had to be the problem. I talked to one mechanic about it, and he suspected the switch also. Uh, but I've not, you know, I really don't know what the problem might be. It, it, the other switch could be the main switch itself, uh, that turns the lights on or off, which is on the dashboard [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] uh, it might be tied into the equation somehow, but, [speaker002:] Yeah, I know, uh, when working with the, uh, flashers, there is, uh, usually a, a special fuse that operates the flashers. Do you have a separate fuse for your high beam [speaker001:] I [speaker002:] as opposed to your low beam? [speaker001:] I don't know, I should look at that. I don't remember seeing one in the, uh, in the diagram [speaker002:] Diagram. [speaker001:] so I'll have to go back and look at that. [speaker002:] Yeah, I don't even know if my current cars have a separate fuse. I know sometimes when you think there are things running while they're at the same unit, like the headlamp [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] you tend to think, well, there's one fuse operating the whole thing, but sometimes the extra amperage that a high beam drives as opposed to a low beam requires, uh, the use of a, of a maybe a higher fuse. [speaker001:] Yeah, that's a good idea. [speaker002:] So, that's a possibility. [speaker001:] What I've typically found when that, uh, companies are pretty good about accepting returns on products like that when they're not needed after all, and I hope that that's the case this time. [speaker002:] Is this a, a mail order parts house that specializes in, in parts for parts for, uh, old imports? [speaker001:] Right, exactly [speaker002:] Who, [speaker001:] it's out of Kansas [speaker002:] Um [speaker001:] somewhere. [speaker002:] so, it's not J C Whitney or somebody like that. [speaker001:] No, it's not. I also got a piece of chrome for the, the hood that they had indicated was the right part for this car, but it is not either, it's obviously doesn't quite fit, so it must be for a different year, so I'll have to try to return that as well. [speaker002:] Yeah, have you found any, uh, uh, reliable import service people in the metroplex? [speaker001:] Well, I had one person that I used for years and years on this car, because I've owned this car since it was new, and, uh, but it's over like in the Brook Hollow industrial district down on Stemmons and [speaker002:] Oh, yeah. [speaker001:] Inwood area [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] and I hadn't used him for some years, and the last time I called him back it turned out that he had further specialized instead of, uh, all import cars, he has narrowed it down to where he only works on, uh, German cars and {pause} German cars [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] I'll be darned. [speaker001:] I'm not sure that he works on much else at all, but he doesn't work on British cars any more, and gave me the name of somebody else to take a look at it. So, uh, uh, I may have to check with that person, as it turns out that one, that shop is near where I now work. So, I'll, uh, I should be able to take it in and check that part out. I've not had to exchange any other parts recently, because they were defective. Now, I've had, had pretty good luck, I just, however, did, uh, have to get a, a, uh, one of these jam box portable dual cassette players, uh, repaired. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] I purchased it at Sam's, and I had assumed that it had a ninety day warranty, and I should have checked more carefully and done a better job of saving the receipt, because I didn't take it in right away, and let a whole year go by. Uh, some of the buttons didn't work right, where you had to actually physically hold them down to get it to record or to play, and as it turned out, it had a full year's warranty, and I could have gotten it repaired for free but [speaker002:] Oh, my goodness. [speaker001:] I had to take it in, [speaker002:] [Throat clearing]. [speaker001:] while it was in the shop I ended up finding the receipt that I thought had long since been lost, uh, but it didn't do me any good, because I had, I had missed the window by about a week or two. [speaker002:] Oh, no. [speaker001:] So I didn't even, I didn't really, uh, even bring it up when I went in to pick it up. But, uh, that's really my only experience in the past year where I've had to take a product back because of a defect. [speaker002:] Well, ours wasn't within the last year. I guess it's been within the last two years, uh, Judy has an Oldsmobile that we bought new, and it's one with the, uh, electronic ignition and the computer controlled mixer, and, uh, I don't know what else it all controls, but the fuel mixture and cruise control and things of that sort, and we found that the, uh, uh, we were having two problems. It was idling fast, when you first started the engine, to the point that we park on a hill, under our car port, and, it, when you first dropped it into geared it would immediately want to back up into the alley, and knowing that, you always had to keep your foot on the brake hard, otherwise it would just wrench control away from you. [speaker001:] Good grief. [speaker002:] And the other problem Judy would have is occasionally she would, uh, be driving along, uh, decelerating, like coming to a stop sign, but not yet stopped at the stop sign [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] and the engine would just quit. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] So, we took it back to the, uh, Oldsmobile place and asked them to check it out, and at first they thought it was just a matter of timing, so they adjusted timing and the problem didn't go away, so we ended up taking it back again, and I don't know why they don't look at these things the first time around, but the second time around they looked at their, uh, recall service and their service reports from region or headquarters whatever, and, and they had a description of the exact problem we were experiencing that apparently was a programming error [speaker001:] Huh. [speaker002:] in the, uh, computer control unit, which fortunately they replaced under warranty, because it was about a three hundred or three hundred and fifty dollar part [speaker001:] My goodness. [speaker002:] and, uh, so once they replaced it, then the, the car seemed to work fine [speaker001:] Huh. [speaker002:] for a considerable period of time, and now it seems to be, we don-, we're not experiencing the stalling, but we're still experiencing a very uneven,

[speaker001:] what kind of home is yours pretty similar to the ones around you or [speaker002:] well I think so I mean [speaker001:] is it [speaker002:] we live in a neighborhood where you know the none of the homes are exactly exactly alike [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] our home's a two story home and [speaker001:] oh [speaker002:] there's about half and half in our neighborhood that are ramblers that are two stories [speaker001:] uh-huh is yours a split entry [speaker002:] no no it's just a [speaker001:] no it's a [speaker002:] it's a regular two story all the bedrooms are upstairs and the and everything else is downstairs the basement is [speaker001:] oh oh [speaker002:] unfinished now you you live in Mantua don't you [speaker001:] right yes uh we live in a ours is a little um [speaker002:] oh [speaker001:] ours the street is fairly new in fact we were the very first home on the street and we've lived here almost nine years [speaker002:] oh is that right [speaker001:] yes and so we were we were the first one and um and I we don't have a garage or and the and the basement is not finished in fact we're just trying to review our options right now and decide whether we want to finish the basement and add on a garage or whether we're going to find something else or [speaker002:] oh [speaker001:] gee we're just growing out of it [speaker002:] did you build the house [speaker001:] yes yes we did it it was new and um [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] there's a variety of of homes along our street in fact next door to us is a log cabin home [speaker002:] oh really [speaker001:] yes and it's it's just beautiful inside it's [speaker002:] do you like it [speaker001:] I do but if I think if I had a log cabin I'd want it to be [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] a cabin type home rather than a [speaker002:] oh rather than your personal residence [speaker001:] yeah rather than something I went to every day and I and I would want it on a different setting than you know a row of houses it's [speaker002:] something yeah [speaker001:] it's beautiful inside but it to me it looks just a bit out of place [speaker002:] yeah we've got a person that wants to build a log cabin in this neighborhood and we have some uh protective covenants [speaker001:] oh oh yes [speaker002:] and they've really got into kind of some well it's kind of been a messy situation it's [speaker001:] oh [speaker002:] actually gotten down to lawsuits and these are people that are you know [speaker001:] oh has it [speaker002:] in [speaker001:] oh that's [speaker002:] see each other every Sunday at church and then they're suing each other it's not it's not a good situation [speaker001:] oh dear oh dear now why did they want to build a log they just that's what they prefer huh [speaker002:] well it's it's a a single gal that uh well she's divorced and [speaker001:] oh [speaker002:] uh think they have they're pretty actually uh good price per square foot [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] and uh think she's thinking that would be a good economical way to get a get the home that she likes at [speaker001:] oh oh that's yeah because apparently they save quite a bit when you put them together from the kit or or however they come [speaker002:] yeah I I'm not sure it's it's been a really controversy a controversy [speaker001:] oh dear so is she going to be able to build to build it do you think [speaker002:] not so far no because the the restrictive covenants provide to the [speaker001:] not so far [speaker002:] one of the uh covenants is uh curiously enough uh that it has to be in harmony with the existing structures [speaker001:] oh [speaker002:] so when the you know when the copy it doesn't look like the other homes it kind that's one thing item that has to occur in our neighborhood [speaker001:] right huh well that is interesting [speaker002:] we have to have uh a lot of uh if you don't have uh brick on it for example they're a little bit hard on you [speaker001:] um-hum oh yeah [speaker002:] like you have a certain amount brick and a certain amount uh some other material siding or [speaker001:] does it have to be uh a certain square footage or a certain price [speaker002:] stucco uh I think there is a minimum square footage I'm not sure what it is [speaker001:] is there oh we've we've been looking around at different pieces of land and have found a a couple that that had the minimum square footage [speaker002:] oh uh-huh [speaker001:] you know requirement but um huh that's interesting that the other houses along our road are like you say some are ramblers and some are the two story so [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] but ours ours is the smallest one on the road [speaker002:] ours is you know our subdivision is really only about seventy homes [speaker001:] so oh [speaker002:] and uh our street is uh the nicest homes are on our street I will say that not uh being boastful but I think our street does have the nicer homes [speaker001:] uh-huh yeah well that's good [speaker002:] we border uh well just on the other side the houses across our street uh from ours are the probably the nicer homes because they border on the golf course and they have a creek that runs through their backyard [speaker001:] oh oh oh that's nice [speaker002:] yeah but uh [speaker001:] that is nice now did you build you built yours [speaker002:] uh-huh yeah we've been in it six years [speaker001:] oh oh did you do the contracting yourself or did you hire a contractor or [speaker002:] and uh we had a contractor come and do that uh [speaker001:] oh [speaker002:] I really don't know much about home construction I well I know a little bit I did a little bit of work in summer in summer sometimes just doing some framing but [speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh [speaker002:] I don't know when you got a full time job and a family you really don't have the time [speaker001:] that's right it takes it takes did you finish your basement yourself or [speaker002:] no I haven't finished it yet [speaker001:] oh you haven't finished it [speaker002:] but see our upstairs has four bedrooms [speaker001:] oh you don't need it yet then do you [speaker002:] we we really haven't had occasion to to to need it so [speaker001:] to need it

[speaker002:] what do you think about drug testing [speaker001:] well unnecessary a necessary evil I guess [speaker002:] yeah I think that it's appropriate in some job categories uh jobs that involve safety and you know that that performance of which really would have an effect on the the the lives and safety of other people you know health professionals and people who uh operate machinery and fly and or drive whatever I think that those are really important I'm not sure how I feel about about other jobs just uh for the purpose of determining whether or not an employee is drug free you know on on general principles [speaker001:] well [speaker002:] but I can really see the justification for the others [speaker001:] yeah uh I guess I'm uh partly biased since we just recently our company's gone to the uh process of initiating drug testing on a random basis [speaker002:] uh-huh for all job categories [speaker001:] everybody uh in the corporation [speaker002:] uh-huh so whether you're an executive behind a desk or you're operating a vehicle or whatever [speaker001:] that's correct [speaker002:] and and how do they how do they do that how often generally does random mean [speaker001:] well it's uh other than they uh they insisted on the uh you know management and and supervision taking the uh being done within the first year which we've all been done you know uh seems to be [speaker002:] so in the past month [speaker001:] the past year [speaker002:] oh since nineteen ninety one it started is that right [speaker001:] uh right actually late in ninety it was [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] but you know they it's fairly infrequent it's just that it's there you know [speaker002:] uh-huh uh-huh when you say infrequent is it maybe once a quarter or [speaker001:] oh Lord no I don't think uh first of all in my group hardly a fourth of them have been tested you know [speaker002:] how large is that group [speaker001:] uh it's about uh twenty people [speaker002:] uh-huh uh-huh so what do you see as the reasons that they chose to do that that the company chose to do that [speaker001:] well [speaker002:] was it insurance issue or [speaker001:] that uh they want to you know social uh issues [speaker002:] safety issue uh-huh so uh on a performance level there was actually a problem with abuse of substances and they wanted to make sure that they were reducing that or [speaker001:] yeah I think that that was probably the prime motivation and insurance like you say to get uh [speaker002:] uh-huh yeah what kind of a company is it [speaker001:] Texas Instruments [speaker002:] oh I guess I should have figured anybody I talk to in Texas is is probably from TI [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] interesting well they really I guess I shouldn't stray from the subject but they have some very interesting topics for for questions I often wonder who has created them [speaker001:] yeah I guess there uh may have been just a committee throwing out suggestions [speaker002:] was the response from the employees regarding drug testing favorable or [speaker001:] it was uh it was received at our site here in Houston fairly easily however in Austin where they have a lot of engineers and uh I guess a younger set uh people they uh they were pretty uh a lot of people quit over it and uh quite a [speaker002:] oh really [speaker001:] quite a bit of furor yeah [speaker002:] interesting quit on general principle [speaker001:] I guess yeah there was some people that just actually quit because of the their uh objection to the policy being forced on them you know [speaker002:] uh-huh uh-huh is there some concern that the tests may not be completely accurate that you might be taking some prescription medication and and [speaker001:] uh I don't know how much of that there is I don't think it's that big of an issue because they've hired a national company and it's you know handled [speaker002:] be interpreted correctly [speaker001:] third party and there's supposed to be a lot of safe guards and all that [speaker002:] uh-huh uh-huh do you know if anyone's been uh um disciplined or [speaker001:] oh yes they've they've they've been people that have been uh the company has a you get a two step process the first time if you're caught you have to uh take a uh you know go into a program to even if you're not you know still have to go into a program even [speaker002:] so even if it's you know one time [speaker001:] yeah if you're if you're you're high you know if you fail the test whatever reason you have to go in into a program and uh course that can be very quickly taken care of if you're not a habitual user or whatever [speaker002:] uh-huh uh-huh uh-huh [speaker001:] then uh after that first time chance then the second time it's automatic termination so [speaker002:] seems fair certainly if people are prepared for the fact that there's a chance they're going to be tested you think they'd be smart enough if they did have a problem to eliminate their use [speaker001:] yeah well it's it's almost become a uh non topic anymore

[speaker001:] I guess that starts it um [speaker002:] all right go [speaker001:] so um I guess right now what's most important for me uh doing is coming up is we have a really good stock program uh where I work and it's gonna give me about a three hundred percent return this time around on my uh investment [speaker002:] good [speaker001:] which is definitely helping since I'm gonna buy a house [speaker002:] is what do they what do they give you stock in the company you work for [speaker001:] yeah what they do is what they do is it's it's a purchase program where you get the stock it's it's it's on a one year cycle and you get it at eighty five percent of the lower of the beginning and the end price for the year so like the the set price at the beginning of the year last May was five sixty four a share [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] stocks trading about fourteen now [speaker002:] wow [speaker001:] so and you so I'll get to buy it at five sixty four four and turn around the same day the only down side is they do it as a withholding off your uh income so you got to kind of you know be willing to squirrel away at whatever you wanna do [speaker002:] yeah yeah that sounds good [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] what company is that [speaker001:] that's with Interleaf [speaker002:] excuse me [speaker001:] Interleaf [speaker002:] Interleaf never heard of it [speaker001:] uh desktop publishing [speaker002:] oh okay [speaker001:] so but um you know [speaker002:] yeah what are we supposed to talk about salaries benefits besides salary is that [speaker001:] yeah benefits other than salary [speaker002:] yeah but I I get a I get a pretty good I work for the City of New York [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] and I get a pretty good um health plan and [speaker001:] yeah but that that's definitely a good thing to have especially these days [speaker002:] yeah the health plan's pretty good and and we get um they also have a deferred compensation plan which is similar to what you're talking about where they'll they'll take out money tax free from your income and invest it [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] and it's a group investment so you I think you also save fees [speaker001:] what is what is that like a uh like a uh TIACREF type thing [speaker002:] it's like a 401K plan except they don't they don't contribute [speaker001:] okay yeah so it's for retirement [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] yeah so you you have to wait until like fifty five or [speaker002:] yeah I think I think you can take out the money anytime you want but you'll pay you'll pay taxes on it and you're better off waiting until you retire when you are probably going to have less income or some something like that [speaker001:] right yeah we we we've got a 401K here but um I chose to go into the stock program because you can't lose on it and you know I can always take the money off of that if I wasn't saving up for the house I would be putting money into a 401K but you know I'd much rather get the eighteen eighteen percent minimum return on the stock and use that for the house [speaker002:] yeah uh [speaker001:] but yeah you know medical medical is good you know we get a good program here what's basically a hundred percent coverage for about twenty bucks a month [speaker002:] wow that's that's really good [speaker001:] it's like your yeah it is it's a very good company as far as benefits go they've got 401K's they've got uh the health coverage they've got you know the stock program they've got uh 125K selling it for twenty bucks they do put it in the dental you know dental is like you know eighty or fifty percent depending on what you're doing [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] um and you know you the 125K means I can pay that piece out of pre tax money rather than post tax the only problem with 125K is you got to say at the beginning of the year I think I'm gonna have a thousand dollars of expenses this year and then you have to be willing to have that money deducted from your salary and if you don't use the thousand dollars it goes away [speaker002:] if you own oh okay I see [speaker001:] so at the end of the year if you haven't used it all up it's you know the feds take it or or whoever takes it it just disappears but you know if if you know you know so you wanna underestimate a little bit so like you know I know I easily have a thousand dollars or five hundred dollars a year of dental and and miscellaneous miscellaneous medical and deductibles [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] so I just have them pull you know five hundred it means I pay like you know as opposed to paying like you know eight hundred dollars I pay or five hundred I pay like three hundred because it's on pre tax [speaker002:] hello [speaker001:] yeah I'm here [speaker002:] yeah it uh it was a width away that's why it's it's every time I talk it sounds weird but uh yeah there's there's other benefits too noneconomic I mean there's there's uh [speaker001:] yeah yeah [speaker002:] there's benefits just in working for a big organization I think in in that you have a lot of uh different people doing a lot of different things and [speaker001:] yeah I I think it it depends how flat the organization is if you know hang on my computer is talking to me um you know it depends how flat it is if it's um [speaker002:] okay [speaker001:] I don't like working in an organization where you're really deep in the tree because then you start to feel like you've got no real you know power to change anything [speaker002:] right well that's working for the city is somewhat like that except for my unit you know I have control over what goes on in my unit and and just that [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] um but what I mean is I I say for instance I'm an attorney uh a collection attorney for the City of New York and and in the environmental control board and [speaker001:] um-hum um-hum um-hum [speaker002:] I'm I've learned so much about computer systems and sharing of information all these managerial type things that I never thought I'd be involved with and if I was in private practice I'd never be able to learn all that stuff [speaker001:] yeah but there's two sides to that because also you know I've seen a lot of I knew somebody who worked for Digital and for two years he worked on like you know the tape driver for one tape drive and that's all he did

[speaker001:] hello okay [speaker002:] yeah okay [speaker001:] um do you work at TI [speaker002:] no I don't do you [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] oh okay [speaker001:] what company are you are you working at all [speaker002:] yeah I work for NCNB [speaker001:] oh okay [speaker002:] and let's see the question was what benefits you consider most important I think uh definitely medical and dental insurance [speaker001:] yeah uh-huh [speaker002:] um life insurance long-term disability uh vacation [speaker001:] what [speaker002:] vacation [speaker001:] oh yeah don't ever think of those as a benefit but they sure are [speaker002:] yeah and um I think what I don't like some of the policies that our company has that I don't like I don't like their sick leave policy their short-term disability policy and I would like to see them do something about um child care [speaker001:] yeah what is their sick leave policy [speaker002:] oh it's only like I don't know like six days a year which is way below the national average [speaker001:] is it paid [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] uh do you get penalized for taking it off [speaker002:] no [speaker001:] the reason why I said is um TI uh the hourly employees um they have I'm not sure up to five years they have a certain number of days and after five years they have um unlimited uh personal time off but if they miss more than say ten point five hours in a three month period they get penalized for it so really they don't ever huh [speaker002:] um-hum that's not even two days that's not even two days and what if you get the flu and you're sick for a week or two [speaker001:] huh-uh the problem is with that is that we work eleven or we work twelve hour days so no one could even take off a day for pay you know PTO um because they get penalized for it [speaker002:] oh no yeah [speaker001:] and they lose their certification pay which is like fifty five cents an hour for three whole months so it's really not a very good benefit [speaker002:] wow no that's in fact I wouldn't call that much of a benefit at all I think you know people get sick and if you get sick usually you're sick for more than a day and then you know if your children get sick [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] uh you know parents have to take time off for that and um [speaker001:] yeah that's the biggest thing and people come to work sick but when their kids get sick it's like well I can't afford to take off but I have to [speaker002:] yeah and I think you know it varies from manager to manager some managers keep track of it and some managers don't and it's really unfair you know [speaker001:] uh-huh that's true it is it's not really uh consistent [speaker002:] but I think you know at NCNB in any any work place being a single parent I think that child care is my greatest expense and um you know it's it's getting to the point where you just can't afford it anymore [speaker001:] yeah I really wish that somebody in big companies or any company would take a hint from like that movie Nine to Five did you see that where they had the child care right there on the [speaker002:] um-hum right there yes [speaker001:] that was so good and that would help the morale of parents I think so much [speaker002:] yes very much very much [speaker001:] because I hate to see that I mean probably ninety percent of the people that work for me are single parents and they have to you know use child care at least for a couple hours a days [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] so I don't know I I really think a big company needs to take responsibility for that [speaker002:] and I think they should even do something for when children are sick you know provide facilities for sick children [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] although I know that's not very comfortable for the children when they're sick they probably just would rather stay home but um you know my options are you know to either call in sick to take to take him to one of those places that takes care of sick children um you know and that's about it you know a lot of times I don't have the option of staying home without you know I just can't you know there's something going on that day or you know that I have to be there for [speaker001:] um-hum yeah [speaker002:] and I know a lot of um what I do like though is I see a lot of men taking off and they take turns with their wives [speaker001:] yeah that's good [speaker002:] you know staying home with the kids but that's still you know kids are sick a lot [speaker001:] I know it's real I don't have kids yet but it's tough [speaker002:] and uh [speaker001:] um what kind of uh how many vacation days do you get a year [speaker002:] well I get three weeks [speaker001:] that's great for how many years you been have you worked there [speaker002:] yeah I got that when I started because I was because I'm an officer of the company [speaker001:] oh wow that's great [speaker002:] so it depends on if you're an if you're not an officer it depends on how long you've been there I think you get like a week your first year and then two weeks and then you have to be there like five years to get three weeks or four years [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] and then officers just start out at three weeks and then they go up to four weeks [speaker001:] huh [speaker002:] depending on I'm real happy with the vacation I guess you know you could take vacation days if you had to stay home but [speaker001:] yeah TI isn't doing very well so like I'm I'm negative vacation because I've only worked there three years and I I get five days every six months well [speaker002:] um-hum um-hum [speaker001:] every about two three months we shut down for a week because you know there's no demand for our product so [speaker002:] oh yeah I've heard of companies that do that [speaker001:] yeah and so we've shut down six weeks a year whereas we used to only shut down two [speaker002:] ooh [speaker001:] and so it's kind of hurt [speaker002:] yeah and you have to use your vacation pay for that [speaker001:] yeah and luckily my boss has maybe you know allowed me to work it off but a lot of people you know go in the hole and uh take you know weeks without pay and it's tough [speaker002:] oh can you collect unemployment [speaker001:] um I don't ever but the people that work for me do yeah [speaker002:] do they [speaker001:] I mainly the reason because I'm salary so I don't ever lose pay I mean I just go in debt for vacation so yeah [speaker002:] yeah well that's yeah that's not not very good are you satisfied with your insurance [speaker001:] um yeah mainly because I haven't had really had to use it much I mean [speaker002:] does your company pay for it or do you pay for it [speaker001:] yeah I have to pay for my husband which is kind of expensive for him I mean it's like [speaker002:] do you have flexible benefits where you can get sort of like pick and choose [speaker001:] sort sort of yeah um the reason why I don't know much is because I don't real uh I haven't really had to use like my medical I know they increased the deductible last year which kind of hurt [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] and I don't know and after that they pay like eighty percent and the dentals the dental covers quite a bit but like I said I've never really been sick or anything so I've never had to use it [speaker002:] well I think our our insurance we have to pay for part of it and the company pays for part of it but it's expensive but I don't think it's out of line with what other company you know with what other companies do it's just that in general it's it's expensive [speaker001:] um [speaker002:] and you know I don't I don't like it do you have uh um four O one K [speaker001:] is that like match savings [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] yeah it's fifty percent matched [speaker002:] well that's good how [speaker001:] some companies I know are a hundred percent matched yeah like Harris Semiconductors in Florida [speaker002:] really where are where for a new job [speaker001:] huh [speaker002:] ours will only match twenty five yeah for up to ten percent of your salary [speaker001:] really ours is only up to four percent though [speaker002:] oh okay well then I guess that's makes a difference [speaker001:] yeah because I mean I only put in like a real small amount because it's four percent you know after after after that you put it in and you get like interest interest I mean I've saved quite a bit it's helped me a lot but [speaker002:] yeah well that's good [speaker001:] you have to roll it over to an IRA if you ever quit [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] but you know that's still a good deal [speaker002:] yeah I'm glad that we that we have that um the company that I worked for before NCNB was just they were just starting it and uh I think that's I think that's great [speaker001:] uh yeah it teaches people to think of the future I think [speaker002:] well yeah because retirement plans now are so bad I don't know about your company but our company tries to keep base salaries low and they compensate employees more with bonuses [speaker001:] really [speaker002:] and incentive pay rather than raises because it cuts down on their expenses for the pension plan because your pension's going to be based on what your salary was not what your salary plus bonuses where and your your bonuses cut ultimately end up being fifty percent of your salary [speaker001:] ooh wow [speaker002:] so [speaker001:] that's kind of a rip [speaker002:] yeah but more and more companies are going to that now [speaker001:] huh TI didn't even give raises this year so [speaker002:] at all [speaker001:] no they gave uh a few bonuses but for the most part no nobody in TI got raises [speaker002:] really gosh that's pretty bad especially with you know inflation and I I've noticed that the cost of living I've lived in Dallas now for three years and the cost of living has just gone up incredibly in that three years that I've been here [speaker001:] yeah yeah really [speaker002:] yeah your housing housing mostly I guess is where I notice it but you know in in you know kids kid's get more expensive as they [speaker001:] um

[speaker001:] anyway I guess there was just somebody recently down there wasn't today in Texas was it or there was uh [speaker002:] I'm not [speaker001:] put to death [speaker002:] uh I'm not sure there was the big one uh earlier in the week in uh California that on on and off and on and off um [speaker001:] um in California yeah yeah so how do you feel about it about capital punishment [speaker002:] I I don't know I'm I'm uh mixed views on it I don't I don't think that it really does much good as it as a deterrent uh the old thing in in terms of uh the the the uh biggest day for pickpockets was at the when they were hanging pickpockets but in public but uh [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] uh on the other hand it it the it seems like that there just aren't are uh some crimes and and some lives that that that there's no other at least emotional reaction to it what about you [speaker001:] yeah well I've you know I I kind of like you there's certain certain crimes that I think it fits I'm for it generally speaking I think the thing that bugs me the most about it is that the process itself gets so drug out and so you know I understand you need to prove without a shadow of a doubt that the guilt and whatnot but the appeal process of it I think is what really bugs me if you're gonna make it go so long you know what's the use of it [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] it almost becomes more more cost you know to much cost and more trouble than it's worth you know to to put somebody like that to death or something that you know [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] rather than just sentence him to life and forget all the hassle you don't have to pay the attorneys all those fees they get and whatnot because I feel like you know sometimes it gets too drug out but [speaker002:] yeah yeah yeah [speaker001:] I think I am I am basically for it with if you know if the crime of course fits it because some of those people this you got to wonder will they ever do anything I mean [speaker002:] yeah right right that that there's just [speaker001:] uh the time just comes that pure and simple you know you got to wonder if they're just a plain and simple menace to society or they gonna [speaker002:] right right [speaker001:] ever reform but [speaker002:] right well now does does uh uh Utah have capital punishment [speaker001:] yes we do uh-huh and I and it's been a couple there was a oh it's been about fourteen years now there was a pretty hideous murder in a hi-fi shop where they murdered one person and they they the two people that did it they poured Drano down one guy's throat and they kicked a pen through another guy's ear and and all kinds of things like that and and of course a couple of them ended up dying and a couple didn't but [speaker002:] um [speaker001:] ah one of the kid one of the two men involved was uh was was uh put to death oh about two years ago and and like I said if it took about thirteen years for it to happen and the other guy is still sitting on death row you know fourteen fifteen years later [speaker002:] um yeah [speaker001:] and that's why you know like I say a part of my thing with the whole appeal process kind of bugs me because here they have sat for you know fifteen years and I I wonder about the families of the people who are the victims you know and they've got to be a little bit upset themselves and [speaker002:] yeah that that that's it and uh that that it if it's gonna happen it seems like there there there's some sort of closure when it when it's over and done with I know that was one of that [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] aspects that covered the sequel to the case in California was was both it this is the first one in twenty five years and they've got something like over three hundred on [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] death row but the other thing was whether you know the family of the victims uh one of the fathers of the boys I think in California but you know wanted to be there to to witness it and it didn't feel like the whole thing was over and that's been fourteen years too I think and uh [speaker001:] uh-huh yeah that's true yeah they uh uh oh I forgot I lost my point but yeah that's like I say I think the the victims and just if that's gonna happen they they just wanna have it done and over with but you know I agree there's got to be some appeal process because it's almost you you wanna make sure in that situation that the person really did commit the crime uh you wanna give him every opportunity you possible can but uh [speaker002:] yeah well that's the that's the thing here in here in here in Texas we've had a couple of cases in the last one one was a was a murder case where it was [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] at this point it's fairly obvious that it was a that a a girl was killed at a high school and it was pretty obvious that the police just picked out the black janitor and and uh set him up for it and uh he really didn't have anything to do with it and they that certainly makes you think again again and yeah yeah and uh [speaker001:] um-hum um-hum yeah that's that's the scary part especially something like this I know in uh you know this California case the uh the Civil Liberty or ACLU I guess the American Civil Liberty you know they were doing anything they could to prevent it even to going as far as uh [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] you know stating the gas chamber is not uh as cruel or is cruel and unusual punishment and in such that they just drag up any little thing they possible can to drag it out or or whatnot you know I mean [speaker002:] yeah well now in uh in Utah what's the method it is it firing squad or what huh [speaker001:] they use firing squad is is what's used a firing squad yeah [speaker002:] yeah that's what I was thinking wasn't there a a big case

[speaker001:] Well, I don't, I mean, I don't know what you think about the, subject, I'd, the, I had never really thought of what they said before about allowing the, the sentencing to, uh, to go to the judge instead of the jury and allowing him to do that. I've been kind of sitting here thinking about that a little bit while I was waiting for them to phone somebody, and I don't know that that's not a good idea. [speaker002:] That's not a bad idea I, um, uh, that, you know, they probably, need to change it somehow, uh, the whole system needs changing, we've just got too many people in there, [speaker001:] I agree. [speaker002:] and, uh,, are putting too many, uh, people in jail that probably don't need to be there and it's another form of sentencing. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] But on that one thing, I, I still think it should be a unanimous decision, [speaker001:] Oh, yeah, I agree. Yeah. [speaker002:] uh, I think we're getting to the point now where they're going to eventually let it be, um, majority vote. And that's not going to be good. [speaker001:] I don't like that, no, [speaker002:] No. [speaker001:] I don't like that at all. I know my husband served on a, on a jury a few months ago up here in Denton, but, uh, it was a guy, it was, it was a drug conviction and I don't remember he had some cocaine and th-, it was accused of selling it, and I don't remember exactly how much he had but, uh, actually not selling it, there's a difference, cr-, cro-, couriering it is what, ther-, is supposedly a difference from selling then being a courier and, [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] he was a courier. And, uh, they, he's, he sat on that jury and they found him guilty, and they went through the sentencing phase and everything and, uh, you know, they were told that, you know, during the trial that this is this guy's first offense and he's got this clean record, and, and they ended up, the jury, you know, decided, hey, it's time to crackdown here, you know, and it was time to do this drug thing and let's crackdown and let's really, and they sentenced him to fifteen years, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] you know, which they thought first offense, okay, this is, they thought that that was, that was a good thing. And they sentencing him to fifteen years and, um, after it was all over, uh, the jud-, they sit down with the judge and with the other two lawyers, [talks to someone in the background], let me come over in just a second, okay, and sit down with the judge and with the other two lawyers and they were told that, uh, he would probably serve three, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] of the fifteen, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] and that he had three previous convictions. However, they could not tell the jud-, the jury that during the trial because all three of them were in appeal. [speaker002:] Oh, yeah. [speaker001:] So, the jury didn't know about it, so here they based their sentencing thinking that this was this guy's first offense, [speaker002:] Sure. [speaker001:] and so, you know, we'll give him fifteen which will teach him a lesson but it's not just, you know, horrible, [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] since it was first offense and he'd been convicted three times before, you know, [speaker002:] Oh. [speaker001:] and, and the jury was very upset and my husband came home, a home, very upset, I mean, he felt like that, that they had been tricked, you know, [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] and so something, I wonder if a judge didn't have control of that if some of that would change, you know. [speaker002:] Yeah, the judge might know or at least it, it wouldn't hurt to switch over there and see if it worked any better, if it didn't we can come back for something else or, [speaker001:] That's true. That's very true. [speaker002:] or, or what we've got, so. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] Well, we definitely need a change in the system and, uh, [speaker001:] Yeah, obviously what we are doing is not working, you know. [speaker002:] It's not working, too. [speaker001:] No. [speaker002:] It's just piling up on us. [speaker001:] Yeah, and there's, you know, there's people in our prisons that are not being rehabilitated in any way, shape, or form, [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] and either they're in there, [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] forever or when they get out they're, you know, it's a matter of a few months and they're going to be right back for the same thing so the system, [speaker002:] We're just not willing to set a society not willing to spend the time or the money to do what it takes, so. [speaker001:] That's very true. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] Yeah, I was talking to a friend of mine about this the other day and I said, you know, I understand that there are a lot of countries that rely on the United States, to and, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] and the, and the people in those countries rely on our money to survive but I really believe that we need to take care of ourselves, [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] I mean, we, and, and the-, I know people say, oh, it would be cruel to, you know, pull our aid from these other countries and, and maybe so, so tell them, you've got five years. [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] To work out a plan, to make it on your own. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] And, we will continue funding you for the next two years, after two years we'll cut it down seven to seventy fiv-, you know, seventy-five percent. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] And after another year we'll cut it fifty percent, and in five years, it sh-, by then you should all should have a plan worked where you can make it on your own without our help. [speaker002:] Sure. [speaker001:] And then we'll have all, we'll have, we will have the money if we would do that to, [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] to work on your own system because we've got some serious problems here and we're trying to, [speaker002:] Very serious, yeah. [speaker001:] heal the world, you know, it's just not, [speaker002:] Oh, yeah, [speaker001:] it's just not working. [speaker002:] your right,. [speaker001:] I look at the, I look at what, you know, thi-, what, the aid presented to the Kurds and I, I feel sorry for them and I know they're suffering and I know they're dying everyday, but we've got, you know, kids here in the United States that are dying everyday, too. [speaker002:] Sure. [speaker001:] You know, and being, [speaker002:] Oh. [speaker001:] abused and neglected and, you know, I don't know. I just have this problem with, [speaker002:] You bet. [speaker001:] uh, trying to heal the world when you're so sick yourself, you know, so. [speaker002:] Right. Well, we seem to agree on the jury thing and, uh, but, uh, we'll need an unanimous verdict and, [speaker001:] Yep. [speaker002:] maybe let the judge have a opportunity to make, a decision. [speaker001:] I think we should try it, like you say, [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] if it doesn't work, we can always come back, but I think it would be a good idea to try it. [speaker002:] I do too. [speaker001:] So, anyway, well, we all agree. [speaker002:] Well, good. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Good to hear from you. [speaker001:] You too, bye-bye. [speaker002:] Bye-bye.

[speaker001:] all right uh how long have they been recycling there in Virginia [speaker002:] um actually quite a a a while um I've lived here for six years and can you hold on just a second [speaker001:] yeah um-hum [speaker002:] hello [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] oh I'm sorry I must have got the other line cut off um so they've been doing that it for a while now [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] and um it I live in an apartment [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] and my apartment facilities there it is hold on [speaker001:] oh have some problem with the phone huh hello [speaker002:] okay sorry about that [speaker001:] yeah okay you're okay [speaker002:] yeah um [speaker001:] okay [speaker002:] um anyhow they have facilities here in my apartment complex for recycling paper only um I've been recycling for maybe about two years now and at another another another public facility where they have you know recycling of glass um aluminum and paper [speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh have you have you cycled plastic recycled plastic also [speaker002:] now no and that's what I I don't understand exactly why they don't have that option [speaker001:] we we have out here uh up until just this last year in on you are town there wasn't any really good way they had some bends around that we could find and put them in but [speaker002:] uh-huh um-hum [speaker001:] not all that many it wasn't very well advertised but recently uh the refuse department has has uh is working on getting a system going where we will actually have uh [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] a bend that we put things in for recycling these other things [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] so it it should be good uh I think it's a marvelous idea when you think of uh when I just think of the papers that I dump out [speaker002:] uh-huh uh-huh [speaker001:] I mean there just it's such a I waste I just hate to think about it [speaker002:] yeah now an additional thing is um where I work [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] they also have recycling there of um all white paper and of you know cans also [speaker001:] uh-huh uh [speaker002:] so because I mean a lot of people you know right at the vending machines they have receptacles [speaker001:] uh [speaker002:] that you know you can just pop your cans in and near the Xerox machines they have places you know for your paper you know I keep a uh little box at my desk [speaker001:] uh-huh yeah uh-huh uh-huh [speaker002:] you know and I just throw as I'm using the white paper you know I just throw it right in there and then you know they have someone that comes around and pick it up you know every afternoon [speaker001:] yeah yeah all that's neat [speaker002:] which you know is an excellent idea at work because I know the amount paper they go through there because [speaker001:] yeah yeah that's right I guess one of the things I think that needs to happen is we need to be better informed about [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] about it there's needs to be more public uh service of programs or something that would let us know had a happens to it and helps us to become enthused about it because of what is happening [speaker002:] yeah I would agree with that uh-huh um-hum right [speaker001:] and there's I've seen a few things but not very much really and I I think that's a shame they need to uh do a little more I'd like to know for instance when I when they say uh plastic [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] all plastic what kind of plastic can you put all together or is there some reason not to uh now maybe they just sort it after they get it and throw out what they can't use I don't know [speaker002:] exactly uh-huh um-hum [speaker001:] but I I'd be glad to organize it if that they'd tell me what it is I'm doing [speaker002:] um-hum right [speaker001:] because that would that would be really helpful [speaker002:] um-hum yeah yeah I agree with you there another thing that I like here which is I do with I have to actually go to two different recycling areas because [speaker001:] uh [speaker002:] one of them is that um their aluminum cans is for um Children's Hospital for a burn fund [speaker001:] oh uh-huh [speaker002:] so all the monies are donated you know for the recycling to Children's Hospital which I think is an excellent idea there you know because the other public [speaker001:] yeah um-hum that's great now that gives you a little bit of incentive there uh-hum [speaker002:] right right and before even at work before they started the recycling plan which at work they've only been doing since January first of this year I had had everyone in my department recycling and you know I would have them drop [speaker001:] swing them for you huh [speaker002:] right drop their cans off in my office and then I would haul them you know here to this place for the Children's Hospital Fund [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] which got people really going into it but [speaker001:] I think that's right I think I think helping us be more enthusiastic enthusiastic about it helping us maybe maybe using the money for something special that would be [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] like paying off the national debt [speaker002:] uh-huh that there there you go [speaker001:] making sure [speaker002:] that's for sure [speaker001:] but I I think that's right I think they there needs to be a little bit more in the area of of uh advertisement advertisement and letting public letting you understand more of what it is you're doing why you're doing it how you're it's done and what what happens to it because I think that's that would help a lot [speaker002:] um-hum um-hum right right um-hum and I'm sure you know in the near future I would think they would be coming out with more you know I've seen a definite trend you know towards more recycling everywhere you know even at McDonald's [speaker001:] yeah yeah I yeah [speaker002:] you know with their their use of no foam containers anymore [speaker001:] yes I I I'm glad to see some of these things I think [speaker002:] right I think I think it is getting more you know advertisement [speaker001:] people are becoming more conscience all the time that it's necessary to do and that we need to [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] somehow get away from the fact that we have to have everything individually wrapped and all these things that I think that's true [speaker002:] uh-huh right [speaker001:] well I think I'm that's about my uh some on recycling but I I enjoyed talking to you [speaker002:] yeah okay well I did too [speaker001:] uh-huh all right bye now [speaker002:] okay bye-bye

[speaker001:] uh what are your thoughts [speaker002:] well uh interestingly enough I've been reading in the paper about uh the option that says basically none of the above [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] and and uh given the choices that's sometimes how I feel I generally support President Bush and I feel like he gets a lot of bad press you know the the economy is really not his fault I don't think [speaker001:] uh-huh no no [speaker002:] but uh as far as anybody else running I think wow is this the best we have to offer two hundred fifty million people to choose from and this is what we get [speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh uh-huh yeah I uh uh on Sunday night I was listening uh listening to uh the radio and they had they had speculated that uh there was some rumor that Tsongas was thinking of running again [speaker002:] yeah what I heard this morning is that although he has dropped out he's still got a lot of support in New York apparently [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] and today today you know it today is the New York primary and they seem to be saying that if he got a good he's still on the ballot in New York and they said if he got a good showing in New York then he would jump back in [speaker001:] uh-huh well that doesn't that seem sort of uh uh it doesn't seem seem like it's useful for him to uh doesn't it seem like a waste of money though for him to come back into the race this late uh what are his chances of winning at this point [speaker002:] well obviously he thought they weren't too good if he if he backed out [speaker001:] exactly [speaker002:] uh I don't know maybe you know New York is a big primary [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] and there are a lot of others still to come maybe he feels like if he can carry New York strongly then he could still make it [speaker001:] uh-huh sure [speaker002:] but uh I don't know [speaker001:] yeah what what did you think about the Buchanan this term [speaker002:] uh it's hard to say it's nice to get somebody in there I would certainly never vote for him as far as I know [speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh [speaker002:] but it it's nice to have somebody else bring some issues to the front and at least ask the President some questions and have him have to defend himself [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] so I think in that sense it's good I don't think that uh he's experienced enough to do the job uh [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] on the other hand maybe he is I mean the newspaper men tell us all the politics anyway so maybe he can just go ahead and keep doing it [speaker001:] uh-huh right right well it's yeah I I agree with you it does seem that he came in and kind of fluffed the pillows uh you know uh for the campaign for the campaign anyway so we didn't have to hear the same thing again [speaker002:] how about you yeah [speaker001:] uh we didn't have to uh we didn't have to ignore a lot of uh Bush's success because you know he really did a lot in the last term he uh with with the Gulf War and all we could have we could have had our judgement clouded just by his his accomplishments you know I I really do think I am going to vote for him again next term but [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] but uh I wanted to know exactly everything that happened you know a lot of times maybe I forget [speaker002:] well when you look at it too how much does the Gulf War really count I mean how for example how much has it helped us as as a people [speaker001:] oh sure [speaker002:] I'm sure that we can say it helped the uh enemy rate of Kuwait um and uh sure it shook a people a few people up in Iraq but [speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh [speaker002:] is is that a success or is that just sort of uh part of the job description as far as the President goes [speaker001:] right right uh what what I mean is though the strong sense of uh nationalism that occurred you know right after the war uh sort of heroized George Bush you know whether or not it was you know a success for us or whatnot he tended to come out of the out of the [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] experience you know as the great American hero and uh [speaker002:] oh yeah yeah his his popularity was somewhere close to ninety percent at the time [speaker001:] yeah yeah [speaker002:] and it [speaker001:] so I I I am I'm glad that uh he can't get into office this time without at least uh addressing a lot of the the home front issues [speaker002:] yeah uh-huh [speaker001:] and uh well Todd uh it sounds like uh we may have covered a uh a minuscule portion of politics today [speaker002:] a very minuscule portion so what about Libya [speaker001:] what about Libya I have no idea what to say about [speaker002:] yeah you you've heard of the goings on there I guess [speaker001:] yeah I I don't know uh if you know if you'd asked me the same question about uh uh Kuwait you know at this early in the game I don't what I would have said then either I I don't uh now of course the last time I listened to anything was on Sunday uh and they had still refused uh the concessions by the Security Council so [speaker002:] I thought it was let I have to make sure I get the uh stories right because because there was also yesterday the attract the attacks on the Embassy but now didn't Libya [speaker001:] right

[speaker001:] do you have children [speaker002:] uh yes yes I have a daughter yeah she's only about uh uh a little less than two years old [speaker001:] do you how old is she uh I guess you have not reached the stage where you need to uh promote a college or anything huh I've got one that's seven and one that's three so we uh we started saving but that's all [speaker002:] no yeah [speaker001:] so do you is there are you planning to like encourage your children to go to a particular school [speaker002:] uh um no uh um no particular school uh I think that's really no such decision that [speaker001:] that you are going to let them make [speaker002:] that they well help them make in terms of you know what they are they are wanting to do you know that that's a big influence I think and you know what not only what you can afford but what [speaker001:] right uh-huh yeah yeah [speaker002:] what's going to be best for them in terms of what their career goals are [speaker001:] right uh-huh [speaker002:] so uh you know you need to go to a school that handles whatever it is you want to do [speaker001:] yeah where did you go to school [speaker002:] uh University of Mississippi [speaker001:] oh was that local or uh [speaker002:] uh well it was well it was in within the state [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] but it it wasn't necessarily local it was [speaker001:] yeah but I I mean so what's [speaker002:] what's the criterion for choosing to go there [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] uh well at the time I was uh thinking of going premed and in the state uh they had the best premed uh curriculum for the [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] uh state institutions it was choice between there and uh a private college that uh was a bit more expensive at the time we really could not afford it so [speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh yeah yeah [speaker002:] I ended up going there although it was quite a drive away for me it uh I enjoyed it [speaker001:] so you did you commute everyday then or oh okay [speaker002:] no no it was a six hour drive [speaker001:] oh okay when you said it was quite a quite a way away I did not know it that meant you had to drive like an hour or [speaker002:] well well I was uh it it was like another world [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] basically it was a no it was a did not get home that often you know and at that age it's uh it's kind of [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] kind of difficult sometimes too [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] especially if you have not been away a lot [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] that that extended [speaker001:] so did you go there like straight out of high school [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] uh uh see I did not get my degree until later on so I just finished mine a couple of years ago [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] and uh you know I guess you know when you have to do it that way it makes makes your choices a lot easier but [speaker002:] uh that's true yeah that that's like you know when I went on to get my my masters I [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] basically was you know it was where I was at the time you know I wasn't gonna [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] try to pick and go somewhere else because I was pretty much settled and I was trying to work [speaker001:] right right [speaker002:] but uh so when you are first going to school that you kind of have the luxury of being able to have some latitude in choosing the place to go [speaker001:] exactly yeah what which group do you work in in TI [speaker002:] um uh the computer science center [speaker001:] oh uh where is that at [speaker002:] uh north building [speaker001:] I see how long do you work for TI [speaker002:] uh about three years [speaker001:] did you work somewhere else like sounds like you got your masters before here or [speaker002:] uh yeah I have uh uh no actually I mean I came straight from school to here so [speaker001:] I see [speaker002:] so cause this was the first first real job after getting my degree [speaker001:] uh-huh after your masters or after your [speaker002:] after my masters my undergraduate degree was not in not in what my masters was [speaker001:] I see I see [speaker002:] so I made career change basically [speaker001:] uh-huh I see well let's see I have not you know there's a lot of pluses and minuses for different schools you know just like you said uh depending on what they want to specialize in and what you can afford different things like that so I I have not really made up my mind you know whether to encourage them to go different places or [speaker002:] yeah well I mean I would like to uh you know the uh I I like the school where I went I mean and I would not hesitate at all to uh to encourage her to go there if she wanted to or the school where I got my masters at which which was a different school and uh [speaker001:] right right right [speaker002:] I liked it almost as well uh but uh you know that I'm not going to hold them to that just because I went there I you know think that's If they want to that's fine but [speaker001:] uh-huh right yeah yeah [speaker002:] otherwise not although I can uh would get quite a break on on tuition yeah because they uh allow for uh [speaker001:] um because you went there [speaker002:] uh tuition uh break for out of state students who [speaker001:] um [speaker002:] children of alumnae [speaker001:] I didn't know that [speaker002:] well certain schools do it this school does so uh it's been been interesting I I was involved in some uh [speaker001:] yeah uh [speaker002:] oh alumnae recruiting uh here in town uh recently uh well last year uh and it was kind of fun because you are trying to to trying to get people interested in your school you know and they were this was a college night at a at a high school in Richardson and it was and there were a bunch of [speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh [speaker002:] kids you know and a bunch of schools there were a hundred schools probably there all competing for the same kids it's kind of interesting to [speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh [speaker002:] to to talk up you know your school and I was surprised by the number of kids that came came by and had heard of you know our school and and were interested in it [speaker001:] yeah your old school uh-huh um [speaker002:] uh you know we uh you you situations like that you don't realize you know until you start thinking about it the kinds of advantages you school may have over others [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] and so I I was real real pleased with that that worked out so well [speaker001:] yeah so did you drum up any interest then or [speaker002:] I think so I don't know offhand but uh it seemed like there were quite a few [speaker001:] well that's good uh-huh [speaker002:] kids that were definitely interested in going there so there there was one mother who uh came by right even before we started who who obviously was uh very interested in getting her her daughter in or or [speaker001:] and that [speaker002:] having gotten her daughter in or something and she was wanting some more information but she was her her daughter was uh a a majorette majorette drum a majorette or something you know a baton twirler or something and she was she was letting us know she how how [speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh [speaker002:] her daughter was she had cards printed up actually describing you know business cards describing her daughter's uh you know she had won several different twirling awards and all this and she was [speaker001:] oh really uh-huh [speaker002:] had these business cards she was passing out and it was quite a production I think some parents go a little bit overboard [speaker001:] yeah it sounds like it well you know I think Richardson is probably you know one of the places that would definitely [speaker002:] yes

[speaker001:] okay have you been able to enjoy some family reunions in the past that you'd like to discuss or [speaker002:] um yes I have a very large family I have seven brothers and sisters [speaker001:] wow that's a that's great [speaker002:] and being next to the youngest we all have almost all are married and all have children so it's quite a feat to get everyone together but [speaker001:] um-hum I imagine it would be with seven seven brothers and sisters [speaker002:] um what we did one year was for my father's seventy fifth birthday [speaker001:] we oh how nice [speaker002:] we went out to dinner of course and we had cake and champagne and then we went back to his house and we reenacted some of the things we remembered him doing when he was when we were little [speaker001:] oh okay [speaker002:] you know like we always had to take off his shoes and socks so you know one of us did that and [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] and he used to tease us about he would he was gonna clean his shotgun when out on the front porch when we were gonna go out on dates or [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] he was gonna threaten to kill the um Easter Bunny or Santa Claus you know [speaker001:] oh dear oh dear [speaker002:] and so one of us dressed up and and got the old shotgun and you know course it was empty nobody uses it but brought that upstairs and [speaker001:] I hope so not [speaker002:] and so it was really funny he really enjoyed it and and all the rest of us did too because we spent a couple hours talking about it afterwards and adding more things we'd forgotten so [speaker001:] uh-huh I'll bet he really enjoyed that [speaker002:] was really yeah he did [speaker001:] well that's fantastic that's fantastic did [speaker002:] and how about you [speaker001:] well we uh we're all scattered around the country I have a brother in Chicago one in Cleveland I have two in Germany and my sister we're from a large family also my sister's pretty close to my parents and uh my wife and I luckily came from the same hometown [speaker002:] oh [speaker001:] and her her family is scattered all over also so what we try an to do when we have family reunions we schedule at the same time every year [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] and we all kind of migrate back to where Mom and Dad are from which is in uh northern Utah and [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] so we kind of make sure that we schedule it the same time and we all head back about that same time and things that we do to make it memorable are that we go to a a resort either go water skiing horseback riding we make it a a week long affair and uh have a real nice vacation another reunion we do is uh at Christmas time this is something that a tradition that my grandparents started and we all get together around Christmas time the first Saturday the Saturday right before Christmas unless it's either Christmas Eve or a day or two before and that's uh the week prior to that and uh the amazing thing is we've had the same Santa Claus and his wife have come for the last twenty six years [speaker002:] oh boy [speaker001:] and so you know growing up as a kid that was always Santa Claus and he was the same Santa Claus year after year after year and it really made a very very pleasant and memorable and we all exchanged gifts as as family and and we got to a point where we're all growing growing up and we decided to have white elephant so excuse me I think one of the the main thing is just being able to get together and coordinate everyone's schedule [speaker002:] oh [speaker001:] that uh I find somewhat frustrating and and hectic but as long as we've uh announced it ahead of time and sent out flyers and and let everyone know when we're going to get together and what we'll be doing it's it's always been very very fun and I've always enjoyed it and uh we're very family oriented people and uh that uh makes it more special or more interesting especially when you have family from you know scattered all over the world when you can get together and discuss how their lives are and the different parts of the country too [speaker002:] uh-huh oh I think that's wonderful my family is all over the United States as well and we are not as fortunate as to be able to get together even once a year [speaker001:] so uh-huh [speaker002:] I I moved here about eleven months ago and this is the closest I've been to most of my family for years I hadn't seen my sister in Austin for five years [speaker001:] wow [speaker002:] so I know it's really awful because we were mostly there are six girls and two boys in my family and so naturally we got then all got moved off somewhere [speaker001:] wow yes yes well we're [speaker002:] I think it's wonderful you get together once a year [speaker001:] it's it's not always easy but it's uh it's very memorable memorable boy I bet that's hard because I imagine that as a large family you were very close and and uh had a lot of fun as family [speaker002:] yes we really did we grew up on a farm and so you had to play with each other because there was no one else around so we played and fought and everything [speaker001:] so oh yes so you got to

[speaker001:] Okay, I guess I'll start, um, one, uh, big thing that, the advise that I would give to a parent to give to his or her child is to let their, let their child experience college in a kind of general sense. I like large colleges because I went to University of Texas at Austin, they have fifty thousand students there. And I feel like that now if I went, if I had gone to a small college that only had a couple of thousand that I wouldn't have, have gotten as much exposure to different people and different, uh, I don't know, different languages, different cultures, and things like that just by being around those fifty thousand students. [speaker002:] That's interesting, I went to a smaller school, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] [Throat clearing] of probably three thousand, thirty-five hundred. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] And I, I thought that was the best experience in that we had more one-on-one since we seemed to know everyone on campus, [speaker001:] Huh. [speaker002:] and we had a broad spectrum of languages and cultures and backgrounds, [speaker001:] [Very faint] Huh. [speaker002:] and so forth, so, I thought it was wonderful to be a bigger fish and not so much a number, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] um, one of fifty thousand, I was one of three thousand, [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] and, and, you know, [speaker001:] [Very faint] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] different perspectives, [speaker001:] [Very faint] Yeah. [speaker002:] I, uh, but it sounds like we were both kind of looking at the same sort of, sort of thing. [speaker001:] Yeah, I, I could see, I could see that point, I could see how it would be. I'm sure your classes were a lot smaller, um, because like we would have biology classes that did, main courses that everyone has to take, I mean, hundreds of students in this class, so, [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] actually, yes, you were a number. But, um, I, I just, I don't know, I'm thinking in a sense of, uh, just being exposed to more. It just seems like in a larger college you, I don't know, your exposed to so many more people from all over the world, and I'm sure a lot of people come to, you know, small colleges also but just that they're more of, of the different cultures there, [speaker002:] Uh-huh, yeah. [speaker001:] not that it's, not that it's better but I'm just saying that I think that big, [speaker002:] That's one thing to definitely consider. [speaker001:] Uh-huh, uh-huh. I think, uh, a lot of, a lot of students now would probably be afraid of a smaller college, a lot of the students that I talked to even here in Waco they go to Baylor, um, they, or they're considering going to Baylor, they're also considering going to U T Austin but one of the big no-nos is because of the fifty thousand students, and I have to tell them that just like, just like I live in Waco it's a large city, [barking], I can still function, [barking], in my own kind of area, in my own group. I have a job, I have my friends, [speaker002:] Uh-huh [barking]. [speaker001:] and I'm really not as, as concerned about the entire city, so when you go to a big, a big university, you're not as concerned [barking], about the entire university, [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] but your group of friends, your classes, your interests, your clubs and things like that. [speaker002:] I think that's probably keyed to me is not so much the size the school, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] but what, what is the particular needs of the students and whereas some would immediately feel very comfortable in this, um, larger university setting, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] some of the students, um, when I was, when I was teaching school would not have been comfortable with that. [speaker001:] [Very faint] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] They needed, uh, at least at first, [speaker001:] Uh-huh, right. [speaker002:] they needed a smaller setting that, that was more like family where they could get one-on-one, [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] from, from teachers, professors and so forth, and then after a year or two move on to a little bit bigger pond where, where, when they had a little more self-confidence built up, oh, yes, I can do this, oh, I've done this before, it's just in a bigger setting, [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] and so maybe to me the key would be wh-, what is a chi-, the, the students needs, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] and what, what school or schools can best meet those, those needs besides education yo-, yo-, you can expect all of them with, uh, a-, a-, accreditat-, accreditation to give the education *seems that this should be 2 slash units, the second starting at "yo-" but it's these other things that you and I are, are keying off on, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] that, that are really more of an education that, but they're the things that don't show up in, [speaker001:] On paper. [speaker002:] That's right, that's right. [speaker001:] Uh-huh, exactly. That's, that's one important thing that I think about school. I'm, I'm not a kind a person that, I didn't, I, I was kind of a B student, I guess you'd say, and I didn't really, I was tur-, I strived to be an A student but it wasn't like a real priority. [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] To my, my priority was just being as worldly as I could possibly be [LAUGHTER], getting into as many organizations as I possibly could, and, and one other point I was going to make, was that I can un-, I can see that probably if I had gone to a smaller school, I would probably have more friends, [speaker002:] Huh. [speaker001:] because you, like you said, you know, you know, everybody knows everybody, [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] and so, you probably come out of it knowing, and by friends, I mean, like contacts for when you get out of school, um, you know, you just, you may walk into a company and see someone you went to school with, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] more so at a small college then a large college. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] You may have gone to school with them but you wouldn't, you wouldn't know them. Uh, I guess, let me think of another important thing to look at when you look into college, um, [speaker002:] I guess, I guess now I've been out for, I, I'm older than you. I've been out for twenty-one years. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] And I was looking at an annual last night, something had sp-, it sparked a question, and I went to a small private school, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] um, and it was church related. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] And I got to looking at my class of sixty-nine, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] and I realized that even though that school's two hundred miles from here and I've lived in other states and done other things for the past twenty years, where I go to church now, there are five other people that went to school at the same time in the same class as I, [speaker001:] Wow. [speaker002:] and it's, it's neat to know that we have that contact that goes back that some of the same memories if not the same education in, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] you know, we weren't all out to be teachers or, or whatever so we didn't have the same classes, but we had a common thread, [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] something that still ties us together, [speaker001:] Wow. [speaker002:] twenty odd years later. [speaker001:] That's great. [speaker002:] And it's, it's, it's kind of neat just knowing that those kinds of things, those are what I carry beyond that piece of paper that allows me to be an exempt at T I, [speaker001:] Right, right. [speaker002:] I have something more important to me than that. [speaker001:] That's great, that's great. Yeah, that's what I, that's basically what I, and, when I first, I've been out of college only two years now, [LAUGHTER], so it's still pretty fresh on my memory, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] um, but now that I'm out, when I went into school, my parents told, well, my, okay, let me, let me go back to my, my sister now is in college, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] and my father was really interested in getting her in a school that would look good on her, on her, uh, diploma, etcetera, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] and so forth, and, and I kept pushing her towards just kind of U T or a larger school, and it was just a big conflict between us because my father wanted the academics and I wanted her to get the life experience, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] out of it, and so it was, you know, she went the academic way because she's a straight A student, which is, [speaker002:] I was going to ask who won [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] yes, yeah, so, she, you know, that's probably, you know, what she, what she wants anyway but that was the big deal and, [speaker002:] In, in that case, uh, regardless of what you or your father pushed for it sounds like she was going for what she needed, [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] and finding a school that, that met her specific requirements, [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] and, and made the best fit for her. [speaker001:] And that, that's another point is that, the, a parent should tell their child to be or, or to give their child the leeway to choose their school, [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] not so much choose the school for them but, you know, kind of guide them along but let them more or less choose what they need and what they're going to do. [speaker002:] I think it helps, a, now my grandfather was going to pay if I went to, uh, what's now U T Arlington, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] because it was there in my hometown, I could live at home. [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] But I chose to go to another school and even though he was pleased that it was a church related school, he was not willing to pay any at all even the same amount of money, [speaker001:] Huh. [speaker002:] and I think I value my, my education more because I had to work for it. [speaker001:] Right, uh-huh. [speaker002:] And because I knew all along that's what I wanted, [speaker001:] [Very faint] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] eve-, even though I had to buck the family in order to, to do what I needed to do. So, [speaker001:] [Very faint] Right. Well, that was pretty courageous [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Um, I guess, I guess it was, it was my mother's support that got me through it, [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] that and ten years of, of, uh, loans [LAUGHTER], [speaker001:] Oh, yeah, yeah. [speaker002:] after I got out [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] I'm, I'm dealing with the loans right now, so, so. *slash error [speaker002:] Sounds familiar, huh? Your, it's very fresh in your memory. [speaker001:] Oh, yes, *slash error very, every, every month [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] I, [speaker001:] That memory just seeps back in my mailbox. [speaker002:] Yeah, well, sorry about that Tanya [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Oh, well, I guess I'll get over it. [speaker002:] I'm sure it was worth it though. [speaker001:] Oh, yeah, yeah. Okay. [speaker002:] If, if nothing else because I work in training at T I now, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] if nothing else just those experiences beyond and, and including your educational classes that help give you the self-esteem to do and achieve, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] whatever you set your mind on, [speaker001:] [Very faint] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] and the, you, you made the right choice in going to a school that met all of your needs to make, to give you the, the potential to do whatever you wanted. [speaker001:] Right, because when you, when you do want, when you do finally graduate that, that's what you need the most. I'm finding out now that what I'm needing the most now is not smarts, not what I can do on paper, it's stamina, courage, uh,, [speaker002:] Young lady, [speaker001:] words, it, [speaker002:] you have gotten your education then, that, that's right. [speaker001:] Yes, I'm needing, you know, my, I'm needing to rely on myself, [speaker002:] [Very faint] Yeah. [speaker001:] And I think I learned a lot of that in school too.

[speaker001:] Okay, what do you usually wear to work? [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Well, uh, I am basically retired now. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] I was a member, I was in education and in administration, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] so basically I wore dresses. *slash... [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] And, uh, heels, and I was never one, uh, because my work often took me into court, uh, never was one that got, uh, accustomed to wearing pants suits and pants to work. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] But that was just me. I know many people are co-, very comfortable in the classroom and what have you wearing pants. [speaker001:] [Door]. [speaker002:] Uh, it, I guess I was just old enough not to, uh, be very comfortable in it. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] How about you? [speaker001:] Well, I work at T I and they don't really have, uh, dress code, so to speak there. It's pretty lax about, um, you know, we-, you can pretty much wear whatever you want to, and I wear anything from jeans, when I'm feeling really casual to, uh, suits and dresses when I'm meeting with a customer or, I, I teach training classes, *need slash [speaker002:] Oh. [speaker001:] and so when I'm teaching a class, obviously I wear a suit or dress, *sd so. *slash error [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] It, it, uh, definitely fluctuates mainly with what I'm going to be doing that day and kind of what my mood is and when it's raining, [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] I'm more likely to wear jeans and, and when it's really cold I'm more likely to wear jeans or pants or sweaters, or that type of thing. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] Um, but it just really depends on the weather and my mood and then, you know, obviously when I'm doing anything that I'm in front of people, or, or making presentations, teaching, whatever. [speaker002:] Yes. [speaker001:] I'm going to dress up more [breathing]. [speaker002:] And I think that does make a difference, because when you do have to be in front of people, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] uh, I think you, the, the tendency there is to wear dresses and suits and, and, uh, more classical style of clothing. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] What about the mini skirt? [speaker001:] There are a few people every now and then that wear those to work. There pretty strict about that, though. Um, I've never worn, I just wouldn't, I mean even to, well jeans aren't exactly professional but, for some reason a mini skirt is, to me a little more unprofessional to wear to work than jeans just because it's, maybe it's just because of the sexist views and everything but you just feel like you're, you're being, showing too much le-, I don't know, I wouldn't want to wear a mini skirt to work. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] We-, [speaker001:] I have seen a few people do it though, but they, they weren't overly shor-, and they weren't overly revealing. They were pretty much in good taste, but, um, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] for me I just, I just, cou-, wouldn't want to do that. [speaker002:] Well there are mini skirts and there are mini skirts. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] There are some that are really short and then there are some that may be will come like four inches or five inches above the knee. [speaker001:] Uh-huh, that's what I've seen. [speaker002:] and again it depends upon the size, the shape of the person, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] as well as the shape of the person's legs. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] Now, I also, uh, even though I retired from education, I, uh, I do modeling and I teach at a modeling agency here. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] And, uh, so, when we are doing wardrobing and we have, uh, two, two hour classes in wardrobe, we do discuss a great deal, the mini skirt and the types of clothes to wear on the job. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] Uh, even though I may have them from sixth grade on up through, uh, grandmothers, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] in my class. And, uh, whe-, I always try to emphasize the, clothes that you wear should not necessarily be the greatest fad, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] because maybe they, those are not the clothes that are the most, uh, appealing to you, or the most, uh, complimentary to you. [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] But, uh, the mini skirt many times will evoke comments you don't really want. [speaker001:] Right [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] And, and then, uh, then you're in the situation where you're very unhappy. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. Well I feel like too, on the job, when, you know, there's men around and some of the managers are men, you just, you know, you don't want them looking at your legs [LAUGHTER] necessarily. [speaker002:] That's right. [speaker001:] And, uh, to me I just wouldn't feel comfortable in that at work, but, uh, [speaker002:] Well, I, I, uh, I have to, uh, agree with that, even when they was very, very popular in the early sixties, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] uh, I, uh, uh, again maybe because I was at the school, there were still many teachers who wore mini skirts, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] uh, we had no regulation against it and a lot of the kids did of course, and it could be very embarrassing for the men teachers. [speaker001:] Right [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Because they were not that careful in how they handled themselves in those mini skirts. [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] And so, I think, uh, uh, of course, now I go the other extreme, I do not like to see, in the corporate areas, uh, all the women dressed like men, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] with the suits and, uh, white shirts and ties and what have you so that they all look exactly the same. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] Uh, I don't like that, I don't, I think there should be individuality in dressing. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. Even with the very tailored look of a suit, sometimes I like to have someth-, a lit-, just a little something that's feminine. [speaker002:] Yes. [speaker001:] Not, you know, you don't want to over do it but, just a little, a touch of it just to say, yes, I am a woman, [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] but I can be professional too. [speaker002:] Well, I, and I don't think that you have to be manish and extremely tailored to, to look professional. [speaker001:] Right, uh-huh. [speaker002:] I think that you, you make of that what you wish and you can go the opposite direction and, uh, over do all the frills and laces and flounces and what have you, which don't belong in the, in, at least in my opinion, in the work place, [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] Uh, but that, that you can have a classical look without a lot of, a great deal of adornment and what have you and still be very feminine. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] Because that was one thing I always fought against. I started out as a physical education teacher. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] So I was always fighting against the idea of looking tailored or manish, [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] uh, and people would never, ever guess that I was Phys Ed and, um, and that pleased me, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] uh, and so, then I, of course, just continued what I considered the best style of clothing for me at work and, uh, and I find even, even at home here now, I, I will wear blue jeans or I'll wear shorts and what have you, uh, and be very comfortable but when I go out somewhere, then, uh, unless I have a pair of dress slacks, I don't usually wear a lot of blue jeans. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] I have difficulty getting them to fit me comfortably any how. [speaker001:] Uh-huh [breathing]. [speaker002:] And, so, uh, uh, I just feel that, uh, you know each person has to dress to their own liking and for their own comfort. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] But, uh, there are certain norms that companies should be able to, uh, put out as guidelines for their employees. [speaker001:] Right, that's what I, one thing I like about T I is that they aren't overly strict about what you wear and they don't, you know, your boss doesn't come up to you and say now remember, tomorrow you have a meeting so you'd better wear a suit. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] I mean, they, they leave it up to you and your judgment to, [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] to use good judgment and dress tastefully and dress for whatever occasion you may have. [speaker002:] Yes. [speaker001:] The only real restrictions they have are, uh, no halter tops and no shorts, even the long walking short of the squirts, the, the split skirts, [speaker002:] Yes. [speaker001:] anything that, that could be considered shorts they don't allow. [speaker002:] That's good. [speaker001:] And they don't allow, uh, any sweat, any sweat shirts or t shirts that might have vulgar, or, you know, anything like that on it, but, [speaker002:] Yeah, uh-huh. [speaker001:] other than that, it's pretty, pretty lax and I think that's good because it does allow people to be individual and it allows you to kind of dress the way you feel that day. [speaker002:] Yes. [speaker001:] Or, you know, if you want to be comfortable and casual you can, and sometimes I think you may be more productive if you're comfortable with what your wearing and can be, be, feel more relaxed. *slash needed [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] Whereas, uh, sometimes when your in the suit and feel, kind of almost stiff and you're not, you know, maybe you don't, uh, can't get as comfortable to sit down *sv and, you know, like when I'm writing training material, I prefer to be more comfortable unless I know I have to meet with a customer later during the day. [speaker002:] Right, right. [speaker001:] So, that's I think, that is good that they're like that. I do know there's a lot of companies that are very strict about what the employees wear and they must wear blue or gray or black and a white shirt and, [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] you know, no variation, and I don't, I don't quite agree with that. [speaker002:] Yeah, well, I don't either. Fortunately I don't have to work in those companies [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] But, uh, I, I, uh, did have a group come over from one of the banks, over the children's hospital where I was volunteering and, uh, they were doing a presentation and every one of the young execs coming up were dressed exactly a like, men and women. They all had on the gray jackets and the gray trousers or sla-, or skirts and the white blouses and the same color tie. I mean you could hardly tell the women from the men except for the lengths of the pants. *need slash [speaker001:] Uh, right. [speaker002:] And one was a skirt and one was a pant. *sd [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] And, uh, and I think that's sad because that doesn't allow for any individuality. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] That 's, uh, can stifle creativity. [speaker001:] Right, I agree. [speaker002:] So. [speaker001:] Well, it, I guess we've talked probably long enough. [speaker002:] I guess so, well it's been nice talking with you. [speaker001:] Nice talking to you too, I enjoyed it. [speaker002:] Uh-huh, bye, bye. [speaker001:] Bye, bye.

[speaker001:] so what do you think of the current jury system [speaker002:] oh I think basically it works okay the uh I do think that we need to have unanimous verdicts although that can certainly cause problems sometimes [speaker001:] yeah definite definitely you want the benefit of the doubt and as much on the defendant's side as possible [speaker002:] yeah absolutely [speaker001:] make sure you're not getting into a police state or anything close to it [speaker002:] right absolutely the uh I think that when they have unanimous verdicts in some civil trials I think that's okay but uh I'm not sure if they said we're supposed to just talk about civil or criminal or both [speaker001:] uh it just said trial by jury it didn't say either [speaker002:] okay well for civil I think a I think in a lot of cases in civil trials you can have a I think ten to two is acceptable [speaker001:] yeah I I think there's a lot more shades of gray that are possible and acceptable in civil trials than in criminal trials criminal trials are more of do the facts say that this happened or didn't it happened where in the civil trial there's a more wider range of you know whether this contract was satisfied fully satisfied partly satisfied or so on [speaker002:] right yeah there's a lot more variation there it's not just did they do it or didn't they do it it's [speaker001:] so I don't quite like the idea of the in civil trials in sounds like in a lot places the jury comes up with what the award amount should be I think you really want another party you know the the jury just say this is the things we think money should be awarded for and then either the judge or a three judge tribunal coming up with what the award amount should be [speaker002:] I agree and I agree that the jury in those kinds of civil trials can even apportion the liability if it's a liability type of thing [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] that it's forty percent this guy sixty the other or whatever but uh in civil trials juries have come up with some really ridiculous awards [speaker001:] right that get overturned or changed on the first appeal [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] where as if they came up with a more reasonable one the first time through maybe you wouldn't need to tie up the system with all these appeals [speaker002:] right I agree and I think that uh certainly were I in a paralyzed or something I'd want eighty three zillion dollars but uh I think rationally eighty three million dollars or something is probably acceptive because I think what I'd really want would be someone to you know the money to take care of me for the rest of my life [speaker001:] yeah well the the the [speaker002:] wish that I had proper care and medical treatment but giving me an extra million and millions of dollars that I couldn't do a damn thing with anyway [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] and uh wouldn't really help anybody except the lawyers who'd get their cut of it their half [speaker001:] and I also think yeah on the same lines the uh punitive damage awards should really go more towards let's say the government and supporting the court system there's no reason an individual person should get the punitive damages I think that's more of [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] you know it it's something that doesn't really you know the person is already being compensated for his losses and injuries [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] the punitive damages are more of a slap on the wrist of the person doing or the corporation doing the injury and having that go to the person who does the suing doesn't quite make sense [speaker002:] right also punitive damages in general I mean if there's if I'm hurt in a car accident and there's punitive damages of five million dollars against you I'd probably never collect it [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] and if it's because your car was bad and it's five million dollars against General Motors that's probably small change to them and it's not really punitive against either one because General Motors five million is nothing and to you since it's uncollectable it doesn't make much difference anyway [speaker001:] no I think five million dollars would definitely cut into the executive bonuses of GM [speaker002:] uh I don't know it's a good question I guess it's off the topic we're supposed to be discussing but [speaker001:] yes yes [speaker002:] the uh [speaker001:] and the other thing I guess that was in there was whether the you know the other thing I guess on the topic that I'd bring up is um the insanity defensives I don't never quite liked that temporary insanity [speaker002:] well I like what some states have including Colorado and Idaho the wording is something like on the insanity it's instead of not guilty because you're insane so they send you to the mental hospital it's guilty and insane something like [speaker001:] right

[speaker002:] okay you first [speaker001:] all right um well basically I think we uh probably pay more out in taxes than we should uh we don't see the sort of feedback that we need from it um I think the government waste a lot of the money um and spends it on purposes that that the government really shouldn't be spending it on um I don't think that it's effectively used [speaker002:] yeah I I agree I don't think it's uh effectively used um as far as the amount um [speaker001:] so [speaker002:] I'm never really sure about the amount because there's so much that needs to happen in this country that isn't happening and that not that the government necessarily should be the agent through which it's accomplished but there's a lot of things that are crying out for somebody to do something with and the last fifty years everybody looked to the government for that sort of thing primarily [speaker001:] um-hum right [speaker002:] and uh I I agree with you that things are just not used effectively [speaker001:] yeah I think [speaker002:] and we you know people don't want to live within their means we've got huge deficits that doesn't appear to you know nobody's talking about the deficit at all on the current campaigns at all [speaker001:] um-hum right right [speaker002:] and I was amazed in the State of the Union address and Bush I don't think mentioned the D word once the whole time it was amazing and it kept he keeps coming with these spending plans and I'm like okay where is the money coming from [speaker001:] exactly exactly I mean it they keep on thinking that you know it's okay to borrow against the future indefinitely um and they don't realize that once they create these programs [speaker002:] yeah um-hum [speaker001:] you well they have such a hard time killing off a program yeah once once it starts receiving funding it its like yanking wisdom teeth to try and get it uh [speaker002:] right yeah [speaker001:] killed you know even when and you know I don't know a lot of the things I think the federal government does uh it does very poorly um I'm kind of a state's right person and I think that a lot of of what the federal government could do could be handled uh more efficiently uh on a state level [speaker002:] um-hum um-hum [speaker001:] uh you know state to state because the states I think have a better idea of where where they need to spend the money for the kind of population that they have um and I think the federal government is just too far removed from the the specific situation [speaker002:] yeah yeah [speaker001:] um you know I mean there there are some things that our taxes need to be spent on um at a federal level like national uh defense and uh you know common rule making and things like that [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] but I think a lot of it could be handed over to the states you know especially things like welfare and and you know food stamps that kind of programs um so [speaker002:] yeah yeah and round most of those are state administered aren't they [speaker001:] um yes and no um a lot of it you know the states get like matching funds or you know they they get a certain amount of funds that they get to do with as they please but um [speaker002:] um-hum okay [speaker001:] why you know why doesn't the state take in the revenue directly then you know uh kind of eliminating some of those bureaucracy that goes on [speaker002:] right right right if if yeah it sounds sounds very good and I but I wonder about states like Mississippi and Louisiana that always tend to have and Arkansas and Arkansas significantly with Clinton running but it states that always seem to have really poor educational systems um and just generally a very very poor economy I mean Louisiana was picking up for a while with the energy boom in the seventies but still their economy never really got off the ground and you know it it I don't know I don't live in Louisiana or any of those states and I don't ever think that I will but so it's really none of my business but it's like something you know I I it's [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] I don't know it seems like somehow not enough is being done to educate people there and things like that to to be able to participate with yeah the rest of us in the in the world it's just pre elitist but you know the the rest of us in the country at least [speaker001:] yes oh yeah I agree exactly um [speaker002:] and then I yeah I know there's plenty of people in California here who don't have enough education either I mean you know that's always the a major political football problem in any state the education system [speaker001:] um-hum oh yeah yeah I well I think we're seeing a major decline um but [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] um I'm I'm not sure how that relates directly to taxation um [speaker002:] yeah that's true that's true [speaker001:] uh trying to stay on the topic here [speaker002:] yeah well I don't think it really matters anyway because it you know they'll what they want is natural conversations and I think the topic just to kind of give us a boost in that direction [speaker001:] right yeah [speaker002:] but getting back to taxes um currently I think the the current system we got isn't really it it isn't taxing the rich enough essentially um it I think that [speaker001:] hum [speaker002:] people people don't have an idea that the whole we're all in this together and in the eighties that wasn't the common theme the common theme was you know get rich quick for a lot of [speaker001:] um-hum right

[speaker001:] Okay, well, my favorite, probably, all time T V show is STAR TREK. And I would it like that, I, I like the adventure of it. [speaker002:] Uh-huh [throat clearing]. [speaker001:] And the idea that, that we would survive long enough to get to that point and be able to do these fantastic things in space. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] And then I like the, they have a new one now. The STAR TREK THE NEXT GENERATION. [speaker002:] Right [throat clearing]. [speaker001:] Which it's an all new cast, but kind of the same idea, going out to new places and, and doing new things and finding out about different people, and I've, I've always liked that show probably the very best. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. I think I've actually seen a number of STAR TREKS, one way or another over the years. Uh, although I never watched it regularly. I'm certainly acquainted with the character [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] the characters. And then I've seen some of the STAR TREK movies. [speaker001:] Yeah, those, the movies are good too. [speaker002:] [Cough]. [speaker001:] And I, I guess all, most of the shows I like are, are kind of along the same line because they're all adventure [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] When I, when I started thinking about this, that those are some of my favorite shows, MCGYVER, because it's, it's only one person there, more than, uh, you know, instead of a cast [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] of people, but he's always going out and inventing new things out of scrap, and grabbing what he can and, you know, pieces of baling wire and, and a few tires and all of a sudden he's got a hang glider and [LAUGHTER], [speaker002:] I don't think I, I've even heard of that show. [speaker001:] You haven't? [speaker002:] It's called MCGYVER? [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] And what is, what is he? [speaker001:] He's like a semigovernment type agent. Who goes out then to, uh, works for the Phoenix Foundation, supposedly. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] And, uh, h-, his big thing is that he can take pieces of, little bits and pieces of string and baling wire and turn them into fantastic different things. He took a car battery and some wire and two washers one time and made a welder. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] So he, he does all kinds of strange things like that. [speaker002:] Oh, great. Boeing ought to hire him and give him a junkyard, [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] and see if he could build a Seven Forty-Seven out of it. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] See what we can come up with. Do you like the, uh, news shows, TWENTY TWENTY, SIXTY MINUTES, those kind of things? [speaker002:] Well, uh, I used to watch SIXTY MINUTES as a matter of fact, and uh, and I used to like the show very much. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] But, unfortunately I find getting rid of your T V set, you do throw out some, some of the baby, [speaker001:] Some of the [speaker002:] with the bath water. [speaker001:] little things, yeah. [speaker002:] And uh, I just decided I had to do that. I think, in part because it was easy for me to become addicted to it, I mean I could just sit mindlessly in front of a T V set for hours. [speaker001:] Uh. [speaker002:] And I just realized, I was sort of like an alcoholic, if I didn't get the booze out of the house, I was going to drink. [speaker001:] Oh. [speaker002:] So. [speaker001:] I guess I haven't ever had any trouble with that. I have more or less, I have my favorite shows and I usually make time in my day or my week, you know, to watch those. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] But, for the most part, I try, I have small kids and I try and keep it on just a minimum amount of time, really when they're up. [speaker002:] Yeah, yeah. [Clears throat] [speaker001:] Because they're, I guess that, that, that falls, and one of my other favorite shows is SESAME STREET because of the kids. I like that real well. [speaker002:] Right, well, when my kids were little, I did have a T V set and I did watch a lot of SESAME STREET and a lot of ELECTRIC COMPANY, as well. [speaker001:] I don't think they have that on anymore. [speaker002:] Well that would be a shame. [speaker001:] I haven't seen the ELECTRIC COMPANY in a long time. I, I remember it when I was younger of, you know, catching it on P B S, but, uh, I don't think they show, it must be in, maybe it's in, if it was in repeats, but they're not making new ones. [speaker002:] Huh. [speaker001:] I haven't seen it in a long time. But SESAME STREET is still really good. [speaker002:] Yeah. How about MISTER ROGERS, is he still around? [speaker001:] Yes. Yeah. They still show MISTER ROGERS. I don't think he's making new ones, but they repeat all the old ones. [speaker002:] I see. I see. [speaker001:] So that's still a real good show too. I, that one tends to come on earlier in the day than I want to turn the T V on [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] SESAME STREET comes on from like nine to ten, which is a good time and everybody is up and had breakfast and dressed and ready to go, so it's the timing of, of it is good, besides the amo-, what's on. [speaker002:] Right. I figure your children are preschool? [speaker001:] Yes, I have two little ones. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] So they like that. [speaker002:] Yeah, I seem to remember those shows being on in the afternoon. [speaker001:] They come on both. They come on like from nine to ten and then from, uh, five to six. [speaker002:] Uh-huh, okay. [speaker001:] They just repeat [speaker002:] Okay. [speaker001:] over again. Which is also, that's another thing that's [LAUGHTER] good about it, when it comes on right in the dinner hour. I f-, can feel like I can let them sit in front of the T V and watch, and they're watching something worthwhile, while I can make dinner and do things I need to do [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] without them under foot. [speaker002:] Yeah, little, with little kids the T V set really is a, I mean I used it as a pacifier. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] I'm not sure it was that great for my children, but they turned out okay, so. [speaker001:] Uh, it didn't hurt them any. [speaker002:] [Breathing] Yeah. [speaker001:] Some shows are good for, I think some shows, some, STAR TREK, I, for the imagination of it all. The idea, I, I think that's one of the things I like about STAR TREK. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] And is, is the, even in for kids watching some of it can be a little violent sometimes and stuff. I don't let my little ones watch it, but the imagination of, look what we can do, you know, in the future, this is, perhaps, this will be possible. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] That kind of thing. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] Okay, well, I think we've covered most of my favorite T V shows. [speaker002:] Well, I'm trying to think if I ever even had a favorite one at one time, uh. [speaker001:] Let's see, how about, uh, MAN FROM UNCLE? [speaker002:] I do seem to reme-, is that the one where they, uh, he always got this, this tape recording that self-destructed? [speaker001:] That's MISSION IMPOSSIBLE. [speaker002:] Uh, MISSION, that's right, MISSION IMPOSSIBLE. Yeah, I used to watch that. In fact, I can still remember a couple of those. They were, I thought those were very good. [speaker001:] Yeah, they always have, I've, I've seen some of them on repeats. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] That uh, they always had a good plot. [speaker002:] Huh. [speaker001:] It kind of kept you guessing on, on, uh, what was going to happen next [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Right. Right. You, [speaker001:] How they're going get out of their latest scrape. [speaker002:] Yeah, I do remember that. And, uh, I remember as a kid my parents watching the ED SULLIVAN Show. That was really the big deal in our household, was the ED SULLIVAN SHOW. [speaker001:] Oh, yeah, every Saturday night? [speaker002:] Yeah, I gu-, I guess it was a Saturday night, and I went to see the movie THE DOORS a couple of days ago, and they had this scene, uh, that por-, portraying THE DOORS'appearance on the ED SULLIVAN SHOW. [speaker001:] Huh. [speaker002:] They even had somebody portraying Ed Sullivan, and it was very, very funny. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] I think it was the funniest part of the, of that movie. [speaker001:] Um. [speaker002:] Well, I don't know, was there any, I remember the MILTON BERLE SHOW even, I was, [speaker001:] Ye-, I'm not old enough to recall that one [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] I was, well I guess, I have to admit that I am [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] My T V viewing started sort of mid-sixties, so. [speaker002:] I see. [speaker001:] My folks didn't, my folks, I'm not even sure if we had one when I was really little. That may be why, bu-, they probably didn't have a T V until I got to be, you know, grade school or so. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] And the shows that I like now, they wouldn't let me watch. I had to catch them all on repeats. Like STAR TREK, they thought that was much too violent for small children. So [LAUGHTER], [speaker002:] Huh. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] I, I, I ended up watching a lot of these things on, you know, repeats in the afternoons or something. [speaker002:] Yeah. That's, that's interesting. Uh, I think it's interesting that parents think that their small children learn violence from TV, people were just as violent before T V was invented, maybe even more so. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] But I guess that's, that's a different topic isn't it? [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Probably so [LAUGHTER]. Well, I think that's about, uh, that's about covered it for me, so I think I'll say good-bye and we'll talk another time perhaps [static]. [speaker002:] Yeah. Well, it was nice talking to you. Tell me, tell me where you're calling from. [speaker001:] I'm calling from Garland, Texas. [speaker002:] Garland, Texas. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] All right. I'm in Nor-, [speaker001:] Where are you from? [speaker002:] I'm in Raleigh, North Carolina. [speaker001:] Oh, my goodness. I didn't know they did it long distance. [speaker002:] Yeah, I think they're doing it, trying to do it, or I hope they're trying to do it all over the country, because they need to collect all kinds of different [speaker001:] Yes. [speaker002:] different dialects. [speaker001:] Well, it was nice talking to you [static]. [speaker002:] Same here. [speaker001:] Bye-bye. [speaker002:] Bye-bye.

[speaker001:] Okay. Tell me about your home. [speaker002:] Well, it's an older home. It was made back in the early sixties. It's a pier beam house. [speaker001:] Huh-uh. [speaker002:] Got three bedrooms, one bath and that just makes me scream. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] That's pretty tough [LAUGHTER]. What area do you live in? [speaker002:] I live in Houston. [speaker001:] Oh, okay. I see. Is that pretty typical for your area? [speaker002:] Well, for the neighborhood I'm in, yeah, [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] This is one of the more established neighborhoods, [speaker001:] Huh-uh. That sounds real interesting. I live in a suburb of Dallas and, uh, I live in the basic three bedroom, two bath home. So, at least, I have two bathrooms. That's not so bad, but, uh, it's pretty typical for the area, as well. Uh, I've always been interested in older homes, personally. So, I think you can end up doing more with them, it seems like. What about yard space? Do you have lot of, a big lot, or anything like that? [speaker002:] The whole lot I'm sitting on is roughly half an acre. [speaker001:] Oh, I see. [speaker002:] About half of that, about a quarter acre of that, I've got a garden. [speaker001:] Huh-uh. Oh, that's nice. Because I have just like a very small, you know, those basic tract houses, like that. We have a very small yard and, um, I do have garden, but it's extremely small, but, uh, it seems like, though, for your area that, that is sort of different. In a big city like that [throat clearing] most houses, I would think, would be sort of like what we live in. Just a you know, basic tract house. [speaker002:] Well, in the, uh, newer neighborhoods and development communities, the houses are so close together, [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] if your neighbor is having an argument you can here it blow for blow. [speaker001:] That's exactly right. That's the way we are. We have, uh, one thing we have that we really enjoy here, is we have a hot tub in the back. So we have, we have quite a few parties, and uh, seems like everyone that lives around us, ends up, you know, hearing every conversation that goes on outside with everyone. So, uh, that's true that is one thing that I don't enjoy about it, is the houses are too close together. But, uh, you know, it's fine for now, hopefully, eventually, we'll move in a larger home. The only thing that I don't like also is the rooms are so small. You know, it's very difficult to arrange furniture and things like that, so. Are your rooms in your house bigger since it's a sixties home? Because it seems like then, that they built the homes much larger is that true? [speaker002:] Yeah. And they've got better closet space. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] new houses that I've seen. [speaker001:] Yeah. Yeah. That's really it. That's a plus. At least we do have like three walk-in closets here. So that's, that's maybe not so typical, but, uh, [speaker002:] It helps a bunch. [speaker001:] Yeah. It really does, except when you have to fill them up and then you get those Visa bills in. And [LAUGHTER], [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] So anyway, um, anything else about the area, about, um, you know, can you compare yourself to any thing around there. [speaker002:] Most of the neighborhood I'm in is pretty typical. This whole neighborhood was built between sixty and sixty-five. [speaker001:] Yeah. So it's, it's, [speaker002:] Everybody has got a, pretty good size yard, [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] I mean, I got probably the biggest, if not the biggest yard, I've got pretty close to it, [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] in the entire neighborhood. [speaker001:] That's nice. That is nice. But, you know, too, the only bad thing, too, is that then you have to keep up, you know, you have to, [speaker002:] Well, I, [speaker001:] the yard to deal with and, [speaker002:] I enjoy that though. [speaker001:] Do you. You must have more time than, than I have. I'm sitting out here right now. We had this terrible rain and I'm looking at the yard and seeing how tall the grass has gotten and [LAUGHTER] it seems like now that's, that's, I almost wish I was in an apartment or something. You know, [speaker002:] It's rained. [speaker001:] Yeah. Well, um, I don't know, do we just terminate this or do you have to talk for a certain amount of time? Do you know? [speaker002:] No, we can, after you go to somewhere between five and ten minutes, they'll get a little master recording on, [speaker001:] Okay. [speaker002:] this. [speaker001:] Okay. Well, can you tell me anything else about the house [LAUGHTER]. Are you working on it? I mean, do people around that area seem to do a lot of renovation? [speaker002:] Yeah. This entire neighborhood, everybody keeps the places up real nice. [speaker001:] Yeah. That's, that's nice. Yeah, the town that I came from is, uh, is a, uh, older town, it like, the typical, the typical homes there are like, you know, early nineteen hundreds late eighteen hundreds, [speaker002:] Wow. [speaker001:] and I renovated a house there and that was so much fun. I mean, there, if you don't live in a house that's at least seventy-five to hundred years old, you know, you're just nobody, practically [LAUGHTER]. And that was really, that was a good experience for me to learn a lot of discipline and, uh, was considered typical for that area. So, uh, it was quite a change for me to come to a house like that now that's just, you know, a very square little box and, you know, there's not a whole lot you can do with it. But, uh, anyway, [speaker002:] Living in the city has some advantages. [speaker001:] Yeah. That's true. [speaker002:] If given the choice, I'm getting out. [speaker001:] Oh, really. Well, I have lived in a small town for, you know, this, this town was like less than ten thousand people and it was about sixty miles south of Dallas. And, you know, I didn't move out of there until I was, you know, twenty-seven and that was just, you know, so I love the big city [LAUGHTER]. You know, I had lived in a rural area for, for so long so I've enjoyed it, but, uh, it can, it can get kind of tough. Its like a rat race sometimes. [speaker002:] That's just something I'll never adapt to. I don't, I don't want to be a part of the rat race. I want to be basically just kind of left alone. [speaker001:] Yeah [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] If I want to sit around and mess with my garden, I'll mess with my garden, [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] if I want to work in the flower beds, [speaker001:] Yeah. It sounds like you enjoy working outside as well. I, I, [speaker002:] Very much. [speaker001:] yeah. I really do enjoy that. But I haven't planted anything yet or, you know, I usually have gotten flowers coming out the gazoo, but I, I haven't done that, yet. I've had finals this week. So, uh, [speaker002:] Huh-uh. [speaker001:] you know, I'm just kind of trying to, trying to stick in with that, but, uh, since that's over with now, maybe I can, I can get this yard in shape. Do you do a lot of gardening? [speaker002:] Uh, landscaping is more, than the gardening, [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] in the garden I've got my beans, peas, [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] I've got some onions out, [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] tomatoes, I'm not real sure what they're going to do this year. [speaker001:] I never have much luck with tomatoes. I do plant a lot of beans, because it seems like, the, uh, bugs get on them so easily and I have a real problem with anything like pesticides or anything like that, so, the only thing that I use is soap. I water, you know, spray the plants, because they say, supposedly, that will keep the bugs off them. But, uh, I don't have luck with that tomato plant, so I hate to spray them with anything. Um, what do you do? [LAUGHTER]. Do you have any tips you could give me? [speaker002:] Um, my favorite one is putting on the, um, tomato plant is to put, uh, dust, [speaker001:] Yeah. Yeah. [speaker002:] and that stuff has been around since the beginning of time, [speaker001:] That's true. That's true. My dad is a farmer so, I've heard him talk about that forever. I guess it works, but, um, you have to really wash your vegetables after that so it won't make you sick. Let's see what else do you do to your house? [speaker002:] Well, I've done some rewiring on it. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] Eventually, if we stay here, I'm going to have to rewire the entire house. [speaker001:] Oh, really. Do you plan on like adding any rooms or, you have enough space you could probably do that. Or is it, [speaker002:] I've talked about adding at least one more room and definitely adding another bath on. [speaker001:] Yeah [LAUGHTER]. I would think so if you only have one bathroom for three bedrooms, that's tough. Do you not, like, have a half bath. [speaker002:] Not even a half bath. [speaker001:] Yeah. Yeah. That's rough. The house that I used to live in had one bath and a half. And that was even just with two people. That was a pain. [speaker002:] The only thing that saves it, with the schedule I work and the schedule my wife works, we're getting ready to go to work at totally different times. [speaker001:] That's good. [speaker002:] So that. It's not like we're tripping over each other in the morning. [speaker001:] Really. That could account for a lot of marital problems [LAUGHTER]. I think [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] You get to know each other very well if you have to share a bathroom [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] It doesn't work if you're trying to shave and she's trying to put her eyeliner on and, [speaker001:] No. [speaker002:] you're both fighting over the mirror. [speaker001:] That's right. It does not make for a happy situation. That's true. Well, do you have any children? [speaker002:] I've got one. [speaker001:] One child. And they enjoy where they're living? [speaker002:] We'll, he's nine months old. [speaker001:] Oh, so he doesn't know, right. I guess, he's a big help out in your garden. Right. [speaker002:] He likes to dig around a little bit. His mother comes in and says, why did you let him play in the dirt, [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] I guess he's enjoying himself. [speaker001:] That's right. It's healthy, why not. Yeah. [speaker002:] He was eating the dirt, I wouldn't worry about it. [speaker001:] No. It won't hurt them. I was a big dirt eater, supposedly, when I was a child and I turned out okay [LAUGHTER], [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] so, don't worry about it. Just let him enjoy himself [LAUGHTER]. So you think that you want to move away from the big city, uh? [speaker002:] Well, that's what I've always, I was raised up in a town that was about ten thousand people. [speaker001:] Yeah. So you're just the opposite from me. You want to go back to that, uh, [speaker002:] After we got married we moved, ended up moving to the Houston area. [speaker001:] Yeah. Yeah. So are you from Texas? [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] You are. So it's not, you know, that's true Houston, in itself, is a pretty tough place.

[speaker001:] okay Cindy you there [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] okay what kind of dinner parties have you had [speaker002:] yeah well I've had them uh where I've served up to twelve to sixteen people um and I had help with them um and [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] part of them I did were like a buffet and uh it I had uh [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] just different uh side dishes and appetizers and one of them that that I'd remembered was uh some uh sausage hors d'oeuvres and uh anyhow uh you take uh a couple of uh cups of Bisquick and uh [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] sausage oh like a a Owens mild you can I guess you could use the hot if you wanted to yeah and uh you [speaker001:] whatever you like huh yeah [speaker002:] put that in and then you get some real sharp cheddar cheese and put that in and a little bit of milk and [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] make make it all doughy and then like I just put them in little balls and bake them for about fifteen minutes and they are so good [speaker001:] hm oh that sounds delicious yeah [speaker002:] yeah it's making me hungry for them right now [speaker001:] yeah you know I've made like little Swedish meatballs but they're just made out of the beef you know [speaker002:] have you yeah [speaker001:] and uh with spices and things in them but never anything mixed with Bisquick [speaker002:] uh-huh I I've used that quite a bit and it and it seems to work real well um and uh um [speaker001:] um-hum hm [speaker002:] when I've had so many people uh to to feed like I'd try to do a ham an a turkey and and [speaker001:] yeah that's my that's my parties mostly is at Christmas time and Thanksgiving time [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] you know I've uh I had an open house party here once when after we moved in here uh which I had uh things like that but I always cooked them ahead of time and then I just sliced them [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] you know and had macaroni salad with uh shrimp in it have you ever had that [speaker002:] no what [speaker001:] get some fresh little fresh shrimp and it's in your macaroni salad that you make [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] the shrimp just gives it a really good flavor [speaker002:] oh I'll bet [speaker001:] yeah I don't like the can but the fresh you know [speaker002:] yeah I'll have to try that [speaker001:] yeah that was really good [speaker002:] I like things that are easy and and uh nutritious [speaker001:] yeah right right but uh at uh Christmas time we just have a regular sit down dinner you know [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] which is kind of hard because you got so many people and then by time you pass everything around it seems like everything on your plate's cold [speaker002:] I know I know well thank God for microwaves you know [speaker001:] so but anyhow I yeah you can always take your plate and just heat it up you know [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] but uh other than that I I don't have too too many parties uh you know I have like maybe just a couple another couple over for dinner [speaker002:] um-hum um-hum [speaker001:] but uh other than than than that I don't have you know a whole bunch of people like except except at Christmas and I have my family [speaker002:] yeah right well I don't anymore yeah it's been a few years and and uh I don't have you know over a couple either and and uh I try to [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] uh have everything all ready and and it it just makes it a lot nicer where I don't spend spend all my time in the kitchen [speaker001:] yeah right right [speaker002:] and uh spaghetti and [speaker001:] yeah that's easy I always like to have that too you know everybody seems to like that too [speaker002:] yeah I know I don't think I've ever met anyone that didn't [speaker001:] no everybody likes that [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] and then uh if you have a nice big roast that you can throw in the oven then you can put your potatoes and carrots or whatever else all in there you know especially if a pork roast that's what I love [speaker002:] oh yeah I like it too [speaker001:] with my and um other than that in fact I'm just thinking of what goes next weekend when the Super Bowl's on [speaker002:] I do too um-hum [speaker001:] I've asked a couple people to come over and I just uh had been thinking what to have for that [speaker002:] yeah well have you had any good ideas yet oh okay [speaker001:] no not yet no and I you know I don't want to have to come away from the TV I want something that I can just take them and serve them while they're sitting in front of the TV [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] you know so I'll think of something just that that we can munch on over there you know [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] and they can just fill fill their plate up at intermission and then go back over there and sit down [speaker002:] and that's the way to do it too [speaker001:] yeah yeah [speaker002:] I think it's you know what's I think is so nice is that in this day and time that we can have good food that's good for you and you don't have to spend hours and hours and hours in the kitchen and and it makes an awful lot of difference doesn't it [speaker001:] yeah preparing it right oh it sure does [speaker002:] well [speaker001:] well when I was brought up you know we didn't

[speaker001:] you keep a budget [speaker002:] um yes I do [speaker001:] okay how how do you work that [speaker002:] well usually it works out pretty well [speaker001:] does it [speaker002:] um I try to project out um right now I project out six months [speaker001:] oh [speaker002:] you know I have my fixed monthly bills and I know how much they are [speaker001:] right uh-huh [speaker002:] and uh I have a percentage of my savings that I attempt to take off the top [speaker001:] oh [speaker002:] not unless I have something come up that's unusual that I was unexpected and then I may have to go into savings [speaker001:] uh-huh oh [speaker002:] and [speaker001:] well that seems to work out pretty good [speaker002:] kind of the formula I use I use uh ninety percent of my check [speaker001:] oh [speaker002:] and then I retain ten percent and if I don't use it then it goes into savings also [speaker001:] for savings oh is it is it hard to set it up for the six month period rather than just a month or [speaker002:] well my monthly bills are pretty consistent you know you have your house payments the same every month uh car payments are the same you know when your insurance is due [speaker001:] oh right uh-huh so in fact [speaker002:] so you budget all that in that's why a lot of times I only use ninety percent of my salary because some months I'll have insurance [speaker001:] it might uh-huh [speaker002:] um two or three times a year [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] and I need that extra money and to take it out of savings at that point [speaker001:] oh so really when you're doing it it probably is just as easy to do it for the six month period rather than just a month at a time oh [speaker002:] sure um-hum a month at a time is not a really a big picture of what's going on in your life because it doesn't give you any flexibility as far as uh unforeseen situations or something coming down the road that you know is coming down the road that you need to save for [speaker001:] no uh-huh oh right and then also I mean that's if you do it monthly that's twelve times you have to sit down and figure it out and you could save all that [speaker002:] yeah I do it uh twice a year and um you know I could adjust it every month that's no big deal [speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh [speaker002:] but uh I just finished out December and uh when I was done with it I threw it away and I already had January through July made out [speaker001:] um-hum so you do it January to July and then July to December oh oh does now how did you say you worked your savings do you take your savings right off [speaker002:] um-hum yeah I take the savings right off the top I pay myself first [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] I'm the type of individual that uh you know I can't I have to put something back for myself to feel like I'm doing my job [speaker001:] uh-huh right right [speaker002:] it's my motivator [speaker001:] and how much at what percentage do you save [speaker002:] I save about fifteen percent [speaker001:] oh that's great [speaker002:] out of what out of my savings account not as well as the Japanese do [speaker001:] well that that's fairly good do you get paid once a month or by twice a month [speaker002:] twice a month uh uh actually every other week so twenty six checks [speaker001:] every two weeks during the year oh that's great we [speaker002:] yeah so twice a year I pick up an extra check also [speaker001:] oh that's right so that helps out [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] gives you a bit there oh [speaker002:] how do you all do yours [speaker001:] well we we don't really do very well we have never sat down and made out a formal budget we keep saying you know we're going to do this we're going to do this we we take our savings right out right out first and put you know put it away and then [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] we just uh we're that's terrible but we just kind of spend what we need that's right that's right we take the savings out and uh you know put that in and then [speaker002:] spend what's left over huh [speaker001:] spend what what's left over like you said and I know we if we keep but we just don't know how to get down and get started I guess trying to decide how much goes where and you know [speaker002:] um-hum there's really no certain formula that you can say well I I wanna say this much and I'm gonna spend this much for the house and [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] uh I'm kind of in a situation right now that my our children are grown and they're gone so uh [speaker001:] oh [speaker002:] you know and the house is almost paid for so we're in pretty good shape [speaker001:] oh oh that's great now how did you get started when you started doing have you always done a budget or what [speaker002:] uh we've done them for about fifteen years [speaker001:] about fifteen years oh so quite a while huh did you just sit down and decide [speaker002:] yeah yeah [speaker001:] this much is this much is gonna go here and the thing we have a hard time with was you know like how much for the groceries and how much for the clothes and how much for [speaker002:] well one thing we do about the groceries and when and we just got back from the grocery store and we've been doing this for a long time and we know exactly how much we spend at the grocery store because when we come home we write it down [speaker001:] um-hum oh oh [speaker002:] so in a given month we know that we spent two hundred and fifty dollars or four hundred dollars or whatever it is and if it's four hundred dollars we look at it and say well why did we spend four hundred dollars [speaker001:] uh-huh oh [speaker002:] and we spent four hundred dollars this month because or last month because uh we had several Christmas parties [speaker001:] December right right [speaker002:] so but we know approximately how much our our monthly grocery bill is you know and and you should be able to do that too within [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] ten or fifteen percent of what uh what you spend once you get a track record [speaker001:] right if we just huh so [speaker002:] and once you establish your track record [speaker001:] so what

[speaker001:] About how many calls have you made on this system? [speaker002:] Uh, I've originated only a, a few. [speaker001:] Oh, okay, yeah. [speaker002:] But I've received quite a few. [speaker001:] I, uh, I only started doing it after, uh, I started getting calls and said, oh, heck, that's right, I'm supposed to make a few calls. So I started about a month ago and I, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] this is getting close to twenty here which is I think is about all, uh, our little gift book goes up to, but I don't really know. [speaker002:] Oh, yeah. [speaker001:] I've got about twelve tickets in the mail. Do you have, you've a few? [speaker002:] Yeah, I've been getting mine. [speaker001:] Okay, medical go ahead, I'm, I'm medical. That's mine. [speaker002:] Uh, you pushed the record button. We're supposed to be discussing the subject. [speaker001:] Yeah. I, I'm benefits. Go ahead, you first. [speaker002:] Yeah, uh, well, I'll tell you, I've been around for quite a few years and worked for a lot of different companies, and, uh, it's hard to beat any of the benefits that, or salaries either, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] that we get from T I. I'm quite pleased with it. Course there's a few things that, uh, I think I could do better if I was sitting up in the C E O's seat but, uh [speaker001:] Oh, yeah. [speaker002:] I think Jerry's doing a pretty good job as it goes. [speaker001:] The one, it's kind of like, uh, automobile insurance, the ones, uh, that I think are the highest and important to me, uh, I hope I never have to use them, really per se, although I've used medical a little bit [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] that, well that one certainly is high, I, I worry that it's weakening rather than strengthening so I like to reverse that trend and say I'd like to get those to strengthen, you know, [speaker002:] [Throat clearing]. [speaker001:] be better and better. [speaker002:] Well, [speaker001:] Then sal-, sal-, salary continuance, I've never used that one. I hope I never will, but that's kind of like an insurance thing. I sure like that one. [speaker002:] Oh, yes. [speaker001:] That's like automobile insurance. You never want to get in an accident but it, you like to have it there. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. Well, uh, like I say, I worked for several different companies and there's nothing to compare with, uh, T I here. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] Now I really got caught up back in eighty-five, I got caught up in the oil layoff [breathing], uh, I wasn't with G S I, but I was connected with, uh, uh, oil, uh, [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] exploration. [speaker001:] With T I, or somebody else? [speaker002:] No, with T I. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] But I say, I wasn't connected with G S I. [speaker001:] Oh, right, yeah. [speaker002:] And, I got caught up in a layoff. [speaker001:] Um. [speaker002:] Now, uh, course you get six months, uh, unemployment from the State [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] but, what T I did for us is, is, uh, I've never heard of it before. They fixed us up with an office with, uh, telephones, access to long-distance, uh, computers, a secretary to take messages for us or type, uh, letters, [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] for us. Uh, they had out of town newspapers and then, [speaker001:] And outside consultants. Didn't they have an outside consultant, too? [speaker002:] I beg your pardon. [speaker001:] Did they have an outside consultant, like a, [breathing] the employ-, [speaker002:] Uh, yes. They did have, uh, seminars every once in a while. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] Uh, course that was not, uh, restricted just to just us. [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] But the most important thing was that, uh, they had made up the difference between, uh, unemployment pay and seventy-five percent of my net pay. And they then, T I paid me that. [speaker001:] Oh, really? [speaker002:] So, uh, I was able to, uh, not just exist. I mean, I, I lived just as comfortably as I did before I was laid off. [speaker001:] Yeah, they seem to be do-, doing a good job of that. I'm in facilities, and our organization built, builds those facilities over in Park Central now. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] And I guess they've been using them for six months now. And I've known several engineers that got laid off and they said [breathing] it's like getting a Ph D almost, they, the much they learn over there, you know, after they've been laid off, uh, one engineer said it was really an education. He, he just learned, like you, he said he learned a tremendous amount that he never would have able to pick up on his own. He was very thankful for that, too. [speaker002:] Well, this was not a learning thing by any means. It was just a, uh, [speaker001:] To have an office, yeah. [speaker002:] an assistance trying to find another job. [speaker001:] Yeah. Well, he said he learned so much and how, he thought, he thought he had a Ph D in how to get a job after he was, [speaker002:] Oh. [speaker001:] through the whole process, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] for, for several months. He did eventually get a job. [speaker002:] Well, course I went through this, uh, what, about five years ago. They may have improved it considerably. [speaker001:] Yeah, apparently. It's very sophisticated. And I guess it may be one of the best, uh, that anyone's doing. [speaker002:] Well, that's one of those little, uh, uh, little extras that you don't see in the, uh, the, the, the handbook, you know. [speaker001:] Right. You're absolutely right. That's a good one. [speaker002:] It, [speaker001:] What do you think about pensions? Anything on that or, [speaker002:] Well, now I have, uh, uh, I'm getting close to retirement. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] And, of course I've been looking into it but, uh, since I'm only a yellow badger, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] I won't be getting a whole heck of a lot from T I, [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] as far as retirement is concerned. [speaker001:] What do you think of a pension that goes from one company to the other like an account like a four O one account. I, I've been thinking about that for years, uh, [speaker002:] I've never heard of such a thing. [speaker001:] I know. That's what I'm saying that, that pensions, you see, just like you were, you're saying, you've only got, uh, so many years, say you work for two, three companies, you take your pension with you after you're vested. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] And then just add the money together like you do with a four O one account, you know. [speaker002:] Uh, yeah. [speaker001:] Uh, it's your account, period. It doesn't matter where you go or anything. That's your account to roll over. [speaker002:] I, that, that sounds like a hell of an idea. I didn't know there was such a thing. [speaker001:] No, no there isn't. I, I'm saying that's the question. What do you think could be better and I'm saying that pensions, say in the year two thousand or more when social security goes away, which it probably will, I think they ought to have a pension at least that you'd never lose. So you work for a company seven years, [speaker002:] Yes, by all means. Well, what would be the difference between that and social security? [speaker001:] Uh, well social security's going to go to way, I think and you can, or you can invest your own money. You have no control over your social security. And it's not paid for by the current, like when, say we retire after the year two thousand, social security's paid for by the twenty-five year olds. You know, they may rebel and you won't have any social security. Where, if your money was in your account, I mean, you can never lose it, it's there. [speaker002:] Yeah, yeah. [speaker001:] You don't have to depend on anybody to be putting that money in for you, you know. That's just a thought. I mean, I, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] if they say which, [speaker002:] No, I, I like the idea. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] Course, that's, that's, some-, something like an I R A [speaker001:] Yeah, and instead of having a, a socialized pension, it just would be really money that you and your company, maybe you had to put some money in it, too, I don't really know. But I, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] I can see where they'd need to do something on that because the statistics are, you don't work for a company twenty years through no fault of your own, you know. You work for five, six, seven, and y-, y-, a lot of people I know, guys, [speaker002:] Yeah, that, that's what I've done. I, I've bounced around. About every ten years, [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] I change. [speaker001:] I have, too, but not, not quite that often but, uh, yeah, I've only got, uh, I've got, I guess fourteen now here at T I, and I hope to make twenty-five which say if something happened to me, I mean, you know, they lay me off, so, you have a pension but then you'd have to try to get a pension in another one. It would be nice if they could get them together. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] I do worry about medical, though. Again, knock wood that, uh, I haven't used it. I guess you, I'm sorry, you really do use it throughout the year, because you get your teeth fixed and all that, I mean, I, but I'm not, I'm talking about major items I haven't used it for anything major. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] I'm glad it's there, though. [speaker002:] Well, knock wood, I haven't used mine for anything major. Just doctor visits and, well, I, I have the, uh, the H O M A. I use H O M A. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] And I like that, uh, a lot better than AETNA [speaker001:] I have the regular. I, again, I just, I haven't, I can't complain about it because I haven't used it and every time I needed it, it, it, it's, uh, you know, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] fallen right in line for the, the, minor things I guess I'm the one just supporting most of the others. [speaker002:] Well, doesn't it work, you don't see, uh, uh, anything until you spend the minimum? [speaker001:] Uh, [speaker002:] Don't you have to spend the minimum of two, three hundred? [speaker001:] yeah, yeah, I think it's two seventy-five for a family but the dental is right away, [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] if you, exams. Uh, [speaker002:] Well now, I have the same dental you have. [speaker001:] Okay. Yeah, the medical you have to have a deductible. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. Now, see I don't have a deductible. [speaker001:] Yeah, right. [speaker002:] I pay a straight five dollars for anything, a doctor visit or drugs [breathing]. [speaker001:] Well, drugs are okay, now, I'm on that, uh, plan, where I take blood pressure medicine. If you take an allergy medicine, so, anything you need a prescription for, for more than six months, you get it for, used to be six bucks, they just raised it to twelve. [speaker002:] Oh, that one I haven't heard about. [speaker001:] Yeah, that's a typical, that's a typical one that's in there. The forms are right in personnel. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] Fact, you may be able to take care, take advantage of that. It's through Baxter Labs. Uh, [speaker002:] Yeah, I have high blood pressure problems myself. [speaker001:] Maybe you still can do that. Do you, do you buy your pills one at a time? [speaker002:] Yeah, thirty days at a time. [speaker001:] Well, tur-, turn in your forms. Go right to personnel. I don't know whether you have to about an H M O. I don't think so. You turn, you get your doctor to give you a more than six months prescription and, uh, they're twelve dollars, again, they just were six, they just raised them to twelve this year. Twelve dollars for a three months supply. [speaker002:] Um. [speaker001:] Or whatever, whatever the, the amount is, uh. I don't want to say three months, but [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] it's a lot cheaper, allergy medicine's really, uh, expensive and that blood pressure medicine is fairly expensive. I take two. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] Go right to personnel. They got the forms in personnel and maybe, [speaker002:] Yeah, great. [speaker001:] maybe I'll tell you go something you didn't know about in benefits [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Yeah, I just might do that. [speaker001:] I do it, yeah, you know, it's a very common thing. [speaker002:] Well thanks, [speaker001:] It's through Baxter Labs, tell, [speaker002:] thanks for the tip, Jim. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] I shall look into it. [speaker001:] Yeah. What else. I'm sure we're getting close to our five minutes whatever, here. [speaker002:] Yeah [LAUGHTER]. Uh, let's see, we discussed, uh, uh, medical and dental, [speaker001:] What other benefits, [speaker002:] uh, retirement. [speaker001:] Yeah, salary continuation. I think that's a great one, but again a hope I never use that one. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] That means you're really sick if you have to use that one. [speaker002:] What about vacation? [speaker001:] I'm satisfied with the vacation. I don't know what else, you know, you say, say you get another week and, I'm, well, I only got fourteen years so I'll get another week when I hit fifteen. [speaker002:] Uh, yeah, that's right. [speaker001:] So that's, that's fair, I mean, it's reasonable. Four weeks is a lot, I think. I know some people who have twenty-five years and thirty and they want more but, uh, you know, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] Uh. [speaker002:] Well, I'm, uh, I'm here, I've got just eleven years and I don't think I'll ever see a, a silver badge. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] I won't, I won't be around that long. [speaker001:] Well, the way things go, I think I'm going to have to work till I'm seventy-five whether I quit and, uh, uh, or when I retire get a part-time job,