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Language Technologies, Bangor University 9

Well, it's very important, isn't it, as well as being able to allocate significant funding, that we make sure it's being spent in a way that is both effective and also provides good evidence to others of how to best spend that money. Of course, the funding is being made available in this financial year, so the assessment of impact clearly will follow from here. But the kinds of things that we've seen investment in include - this is the capital grant - improving external lighting in sports areas, providing storage for equipment for extra-curricular activities, outside shelters, security measures to segregate school and community-use areas, and then modifications to changing rooms, to toilets, and so on, to facilitate community use. In relation to how that money has flowed through the system, obviously the responsibility for distribution lies in the hands of local authorities, but we expect them to focus the funding on small to medium-scale projects and to take full note of the guidance that we've issued in how they go about doing that. That, we think, is the best way of making sure that schools can adapt and effectively open their premises outside traditional hours. In terms of how it was funded to local authorities, it was distributed on a formulaic basis, dependent on schools and learners in each individual local authority and, as I mentioned at the start, we'll be evaluating the outcomes of that funding in due course.

Wel, mae'n bwysig iawn, onid yw, yn ogystal â gallu dyrannu cyllid sylweddol, ein bod yn sicrhau ei fod yn cael ei wario mewn ffordd sy'n effeithiol ac sydd hefyd yn darparu tystiolaeth dda i eraill o'r ffordd orau o wario'r arian hwnnw. Wrth gwrs, bydd y cyllid yn cael ei ddarparu yn y flwyddyn ariannol hon, felly bydd yr asesiad o'r effaith yn amlwg yn dilyn o'r fan hon. Ond mae'r mathau o bethau rydym wedi gweld buddsoddiad ynddynt - y grant cyfalaf yw hwn - yn cynnwys gwella goleuo allanol mewn lleoliadau chwaraeon, darparu llefydd i storio offer ar gyfer gweithgareddau allgyrsiol, llochesi awyr agored, mesurau diogelwch i gadw ardaloedd ar gyfer ysgolion ac at ddefnydd cymunedol ar wahân, ac addasiadau i ystafelloedd newid, i doiledau ac yn y blaen, i hwyluso defnydd cymunedol. Mewn perthynas â sut mae'r arian hwnnw wedi llifo drwy'r system, yn amlwg, mae'r cyfrifoldeb am ddosbarthu yn nwylo'r awdurdodau lleol, ond rydym yn disgwyl iddynt ganolbwyntio'r cyllid ar brosiectau ar raddfa fach i ganolig a chymryd sylw llawn o'r canllawiau rydym wedi eu cyhoeddi ar sut y dylent fynd ati i wneud hynny. Dyna'r ffordd orau, yn ein barn ni, o sicrhau y gall ysgolion addasu ac agor eu hadeiladau'n effeithiol y tu allan i oriau traddodiadol. O ran sut y cafodd yr arian ei ddarparu i awdurdodau lleol, fe'i dosbarthwyd ar sail fformiwläig, yn dibynnu ar ysgolion a dysgwyr ym mhob awdurdod lleol unigol, ac fel y soniais ar y dechrau, byddwn yn gwerthuso canlyniadau'r cyllid hwnnw maes o law.

Well, the cost-of-living crisis is having, and will continue to have, significant financial impacts on all public services, including our schools. School budgets are, of course, for local authorities to determine. They are best placed to work with their schools, as many are, in proposing reasonable cost-saving measures where they are appropriate.

Wel, mae'r argyfwng costau byw yn cael, a bydd yn parhau i gael, effeithiau ariannol sylweddol ar bob gwasanaeth cyhoeddus, gan gynnwys ein hysgolion. Awdurdodau lleol, wrth gwrs, sydd i benderfynu ar gyllidebau ysgolion. Hwy sydd yn y sefyllfa orau i weithio gyda'u hysgolion, fel y mae llawer yn ei wneud, i gynnig mesurau rhesymol ar gyfer arbed costau lle bo hynny'n briodol.

Thank you for that answer, Minister. Powys County Council are looking at making education cost savings of over £1.7 million. Proposals for schools from the council include turning off laptops and ceasing photocopying. I'm not exactly sure how much of £1.7 million will be saved from stopping photocopying in schools, but this seems an inadequate way of treating our teachers and our children, and the cabinet just tinkering around the edges. Minister, to make efficiencies in schools we need to make sure that the buildings are as energy efficient as possible, so what support is the Welsh Government giving to schools to make them more energy efficient, so that can help school budgets?

Diolch am eich ateb, Weinidog. Mae Cyngor Sir Powys yn bwriadu gwneud arbedion o dros £1.7 miliwn mewn costau addysg. Mae cynigion gan y cyngor ar gyfer ysgolion yn cynnwys diffodd gliniaduron a rhoi'r gorau i lungopïo. Nid wyf yn siŵr faint o'r £1.7 miliwn a fydd yn cael ei arbed drwy roi'r gorau i lungopïo mewn ysgolion, ond mae hyn yn swnio fel ffordd anaddas o drin ein hathrawon a'n plant, gyda'r cabinet yn tincran ar yr ymylon. Weinidog, i wneud arbedion effeithlonrwydd mewn ysgolion, mae angen inni sicrhau bod yr adeiladau mor effeithlon â phosibl o ran eu defnydd o ynni, felly pa gymorth y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn ei roi i ysgolion i'w gwneud yn fwy effeithlon o ran eu defnydd o ynni, fel y gall hynny helpu cyllidebau ysgolion?

Well, as he knows, we make available funding to local authorities in relation to the decarbonisation of the school estate - I'll have some more to say about that in the coming weeks, as it happens - as well as making sure that all new schools built using Welsh Government funding are net-zero schools, both in terms of embedded carbon, but also in terms of operation. I think it's really important that we can make sure our school estate is futureproofed in terms of its energy needs in the way the Member suggests.

Wel, fel y gŵyr, rydym yn sicrhau bod cyllid ar gael i awdurdodau lleol mewn perthynas â datgarboneiddio'r ystad ysgolion - bydd gennyf ragor i'w ddweud am hynny yn yr wythnosau nesaf, fel mae'n digwydd - yn ogystal â sicrhau bod yr holl ysgolion newydd sy'n cael eu hadeiladu gan ddefnyddio cyllid Llywodraeth Cymru yn ysgolion sero net, o ran carbon corfforedig, ond hefyd o ran eu gweithrediad. Credaf ei bod yn bwysig iawn ein bod yn gallu sicrhau bod ein hystad ysgolion yn cael ei diogelu at y dyfodol o ran ei hanghenion ynni yn y ffordd yr awgryma'r Aelod.

We continue to support neurodiverse pupils. Both the additional learning needs system and the Curriculum for Wales put children and young people's needs at the centre through person-centred planning and supporting individuals' progression.

Rydym yn parhau i gefnogi disgyblion niwroamrywiol. Mae'r system anghenion dysgu ychwanegol a'r Cwricwlwm i Gymru yn canolbwyntio ar anghenion plant a phobl ifanc drwy gynlluniau sy'n canolbwyntio ar unigolion a chefnogi cynnydd unigolion.

Thank you. I'm still contacted regularly by parents of pupils with diagnosed or suspected neurodiverse conditions, many of whom have diagnosed neurodiverse conditions themselves and most of whom live in Flintshire. In recent months alone, e-mails received from Flintshire parents include the following: 'We attach evidence showing behaviours that are autism related and are held in her education file, yet she's without a formal assessment and diagnosis of autism.' Another neurodiverse mother said, 'If anything, we're excluded from anything such as when social services recently went into my daughter's school. How is that an equal partnership when you live in fear and cannot trust?' Another wrote, 'My son is autistic and had complained of extreme bullying by pupils and a teaching assistant at his previous school. The council dismissed any request for support.' An advocate for an autistic mother wrote that her client's son came home from school with some bruising. The social worker that visited said that she could see no bruising despite his mother taking photographs of the bruising that day. And finally, only last week, a mother wrote that her autistic daughter's school had put many referrals in place for her daughter, only to be knocked back. How can you ensure effective implementation of Welsh legislation to prevent such clear and repeated breaches from happening?

Diolch. Mae rhieni disgyblion sydd wedi cael diagnosis neu yr amheuir fod ganddynt gyflyrau niwroamrywiol yn dal i gysylltu â mi yn rheolaidd, gyda llawer ohonynt wedi cael diagnosis o gyflyrau niwroamrywiol eu hunain a'r rhan fwyaf ohonynt yn byw yn sir y Fflint. Yn ystod y misoedd diwethaf yn unig, mae'r e-byst a ddaeth i law gan rieni yn sir y Fflint yn cynnwys y canlynol: 'Rydym yn atodi tystiolaeth sy'n dangos ymddygiadau sy'n gysylltiedig ag awtistiaeth ac a gedwir yn ei ffeil addysg, ac eto nid yw wedi cael asesiad ffurfiol na diagnosis o awtistiaeth.' Dywedodd mam niwroamrywiol arall, 'Os rhywbeth, rydym wedi cael ein heithrio o unrhyw beth er enghraifft pan aeth y gwasanaethau cymdeithasol i ysgol fy merch yn ddiweddar. Sut mae honno'n bartneriaeth gyfartal pan fyddwch yn byw mewn ofn ac yn methu ymddiried?' Ysgrifennodd un arall, 'Mae fy mab yn awtistig ac wedi cwyno am fwlio eithafol gan ddisgyblion a chynorthwyydd addysgu yn ei ysgol flaenorol. Gwrthododd y cyngor unrhyw gais am gymorth.' Ysgrifennodd eiriolwr dros fam awtistig fod mab ei chleient yn dod adref o'r ysgol gyda chleisiau. Dywedodd y gweithiwr cymdeithasol a ymwelodd na allai weld unrhyw gleisiau er bod ei fam wedi tynnu lluniau o'r cleisiau y diwrnod hwnnw. Ac yn olaf, yr wythnos diwethaf, ysgrifennodd mam fod ysgol ei merch awtistig wedi gwneud llawer o atgyfeiriadau ar gyfer ei merch, ond cawsant eu rhwystro. Sut y gallwch sicrhau bod deddfwriaeth Cymru ar waith yn effeithiol i atal tramgwyddo mynych ac amlwg o'r fath rhag digwydd?

Well, none of us want to hear the sorts of examples that Mark Isherwood has described in his question today, and if there are any of those that he wishes to write to me about specifically, I'd be happy to take that up. In relation to ensuring the reforms are effective, we are making sure that there is additional funding in the system, both this year and for the next two years. We are now a little over a year into a three-year implementation period for the very significant additional learning needs reforms. He will also know that we have recently published significant new material, which is guidance for pupils and their parents about their rights and the services that they are entitled to. And in relation to supporting the workforce to understand the needs of pupils with additional learning needs, in both initial teacher education and now continuing professional learning for teachers in practice, obviously meeting those needs is a priority, and supporting learners with ALN is part of a student teacher's core studies. We've also developed an online ALN national professional learning programme, aimed specifically at additional learning needs co-ordinators, but also teachers and lecturers, so they can develop their own ability to support teachers with ALN. And in addition to our work to support all learners with ALN, we fund the national autism team to provide relevant support and resources to the education sector as well.

Wel, nid oes yr un ohonom yn dymuno clywed y mathau o enghreifftiau y mae Mark Isherwood wedi'u disgrifio yn ei gwestiwn heddiw, ac os hoffai ysgrifennu ataf yn benodol ynglŷn ag unrhyw un ohonynt, byddwn yn fwy na pharod i fynd i'r afael â hynny. Mewn perthynas â sicrhau bod y diwygiadau'n effeithiol, rydym yn sicrhau bod cyllid ychwanegol yn y system, eleni ac ar gyfer y ddwy flynedd nesaf. Rydym bellach ychydig dros flwyddyn i mewn i gyfnod gweithredu tair blynedd ar gyfer y diwygiadau anghenion dysgu ychwanegol pwysig iawn. Bydd yn gwybod hefyd ein bod wedi cyhoeddi deunydd newydd pwysig yn ddiweddar, sef canllawiau i ddisgyblion a'u rhieni ynglŷn â'u hawliau a'r gwasanaethau y mae ganddynt hawl iddynt. Ac mewn perthynas â chefnogi'r gweithlu i ddeall anghenion disgyblion ag anghenion dysgu ychwanegol, mewn addysg gychwynnol i athrawon ac mewn dysgu proffesiynol parhaus i athrawon sy'n gweithio, yn amlwg, mae diwallu'r anghenion hynny yn flaenoriaeth, ac mae cefnogi dysgwyr ag anghenion dysgu ychwanegol yn rhan o astudiaethau craidd athro dan hyfforddiant. Rydym hefyd wedi datblygu rhaglen ddysgu proffesiynol genedlaethol ar-lein ar anghenion dysgu ychwanegol, wedi'i hanelu'n benodol at gydgysylltwyr anghenion dysgu ychwanegol, ond hefyd athrawon a darlithwyr, fel y gallant ddatblygu eu gallu eu hunain i gefnogi athrawon yng nghyswllt anghenion dysgu ychwanegol. Ac yn ogystal â'n gwaith i gefnogi pob dysgwr ag anghenion dysgu ychwanegol, rydym yn ariannu'r tîm awtistiaeth cenedlaethol i ddarparu cymorth ac adnoddau perthnasol i'r sector addysg hefyd.

The next item is item 3, which is the topical questions, and the first question is to be answered by the Minister for Social Justice and is to be asked by Jack Sargeant.

Yr eitem nesaf yw eitem 3, sef y cwestiynau amserol, ac mae'r cwestiwn cyntaf i'w ateb gan y Gweinidog Cyfiawnder Cymdeithasol ac i'w ofyn gan Jack Sargeant.

I've written twice in the last two weeks, urging UK Government to end the abhorrent practice of forced installation of prepayment meters. I call on them and energy suppliers to remove any meters installed by force this winter, and I'm urgently seeking a meeting with the Secretary of State.

Rwyf wedi ysgrifennu ddwywaith yn ystod y pythefnos diwethaf, yn annog Llywodraeth y DU i roi diwedd ar yr arfer ffiaidd o osod mesuryddion rhagdalu gorfodol. Galwaf arnynt ac ar gyflenwyr ynni i gael gwared ar unrhyw fesuryddion a osodwyd yn orfodol y gaeaf hwn, ac rwy'n ceisio cael cyfarfod brys â'r Ysgrifennydd Gwladol.

Can I thank the Minister for that answer, and again thank her for her leadership on behalf of the Welsh Government in bringing these issues to the attention of the UK Government? The UK Government, Ofgem and the courts have watched this national scandal develop for over a year, seemingly simply trusting energy suppliers and debt collection agents to do the right thing. Thousands of warrants for the forced installation of prepay meters have been passed without scrutiny; the only check being that the debt collection agents simply state that nobody impacted is vulnerable. We know that that is not true. Just last week, we all would have seen the footage of the results: vulnerable people's houses entered, often broken into, and prepay meters forcibly installed. The courts have now finally ordered a halt to this, but for me, it's far too late for the thousands that have already been switched. Minister, we need meaningful compensation, we need a ban on the remote switching, and to allow those already switched - forcibly switched - to switch back free of charge. In your meetings with the UK Government, if they accept your invitation and your calls, will you express the importance and urgency of the calls I've said today? And will you also investigate whether the Welsh Government and this Senedd could support the development of rules similar to those put in place for water back in the 1990s - those rules that don't allow people, people right across our society in Wales and the United Kingdom, to be simply cut off and disconnected?

A gaf fi ddiolch i'r Gweinidog am ei hateb, a diolch iddi eto am ei harweinyddiaeth ar ran Llywodraeth Cymru yn dwyn y materion hyn i sylw Llywodraeth y DU? Mae Llywodraeth y DU, Ofgem a'r llysoedd wedi gwylio'r sgandal genedlaethol hon yn datblygu ers dros flwyddyn, gan ymddiried mewn cyflenwyr ynni ac asiantau casglu dyledion yn ôl pob golwg i wneud y peth iawn. Mae miloedd o warantau ar gyfer gosod mesuryddion rhagdalu gorfodol wedi'u pasio heb eu craffu; yr unig wiriad yw bod yr asiantau casglu dyledion yn dweud nad oes unrhyw un yr effeithir arnynt yn agored i niwed. Gwyddom nad yw hynny'n wir. Yr wythnos diwethaf, byddai pob un ohonom wedi gweld y lluniau o'r canlyniadau: pobl yn mynd i mewn i dai pobl agored i niwed, gan dorri i mewn iddynt yn aml, a gosod mesuryddion rhagdalu gorfodol. Mae'r llysoedd bellach wedi gwahardd hyn o'r diwedd, ond i mi, mae'n llawer rhy hwyr i'r miloedd sydd eisoes wedi gorfod newid. Weinidog, mae angen iawndal ystyrlon, mae angen gwaharddiad ar newid mesuryddion o bell, a chaniatáu i'r rheini sydd eisoes wedi newid - wedi gorfod newid - newid yn ôl yn rhad ac am ddim. Yn eich cyfarfodydd gyda Llywodraeth y DU, os byddant yn derbyn eich gwahoddiad a'ch galwadau, a wnewch chi fynegi pwysigrwydd a brys y galwadau rwyf wedi'u gwneud heddiw? Ac a wnewch chi ymchwilio hefyd i weld a allai Llywodraeth Cymru a'r Senedd hon gefnogi datblygiad rheolau tebyg i'r rheini a roddwyd ar waith ar gyfer dŵr yn ôl yn y 1990au - rheolau nad ydynt yn caniatáu datgysylltu a thorri cyflenwad pobl, pobl ar draws ein cymdeithas yng Nghymru a'r Deyrnas Unedig?

Well, I'd like to thank Jack Sargeant for his relentless and effective campaign on what are the prepayment meter scandals that have emerged over recent weeks. You have raised this consistently over the past year and helped to expose it, for us and for the Welsh Government to respond, and indeed the whole Senedd and our fuel poverty cross-party group, which Mark Isherwood chairs, and I assure you that this is at the forefront of my agenda at the moment as Minister for Social Justice, to address this shocking scandal. So, in recent correspondence and contact with the UK Government and Ofgem, including a meeting that I held with the Ofgem board this morning that happened to be in Cardiff, I've stressed the need for energy suppliers to not only stop forced installation, but also to revert any prepayment meters that have been recently fitted, and I continue to seek that meeting with the Secretary of State to make clear the urgency of this call. I have had a response from the energy Minister, and I'm happy to share that with colleagues in the Chamber in the Senedd today. The existing rules, of course, were intended to protect the most vulnerable in our society, but they have not worked. They're clearly not working as intended, and we have to look at that. So, I did ask that question of the Ofgem board today. They have got to regulate the industry effectively, and in my meeting with them, with the chair and board of Ofgem this morning, I did say to them: are they making effective use of their existing powers as regulator? Are they using those powers? Are they sufficient to effectively regulate the sector? Do we need strengthened legislation? What can we do in terms of further powers needed to regulate the sector? And also, in their response, I will share with the Senedd today that they said that they've launched a robust investigation into the activities of British Gas, the debt collector collecting agency that they were using, and they're looking internally at their compliance activities. They did say that they're using all their current powers to full force, but obviously we need to hear from them, and I think it's due within the next couple of weeks, the outcome of that investigation. Just finally, on your point about water, heat and power are vital services for our households. As with water, energy supply companies should not be simply able to disconnect users, and I'm going to raise this particular point, as I did today with Ofgem, with the UK Government.

Wel, hoffwn ddiolch i Jack Sargeant am ei ymgyrch ddi-baid ac effeithiol ar y sgandal mesuryddion rhagdalu sydd wedi dod i'r amlwg dros yr wythnosau diwethaf. Rydych wedi codi hyn yn gyson dros y flwyddyn ddiwethaf ac wedi helpu i'w ddatgelu, i ni ac i Lywodraeth Cymru ymateb, ac yn wir, y Senedd gyfan a'n grŵp trawsbleidiol ar dlodi tanwydd y mae Mark Isherwood yn ei gadeirio, a gallaf roi sicrwydd i chi fod mynd i'r afael â'r sgandal warthus hon ar frig fy agenda ar hyn o bryd fel y Gweinidog Cyfiawnder Cymdeithasol. Felly, mewn cyswllt a gohebiaeth ddiweddar â Llywodraeth y DU ac Ofgem, gan gynnwys cyfarfod a gynhaliais gyda bwrdd Ofgem y bore yma a oedd yn digwydd bod yng Nghaerdydd, rwyf wedi pwysleisio'r angen i gyflenwyr ynni i roi'r gorau i osod mesuryddion gorfodol, a hefyd i newid unrhyw fesuryddion rhagdalu a osodwyd yn ddiweddar yn ôl, ac rwy'n parhau i geisio cael y cyfarfod hwnnw gyda'r Ysgrifennydd Gwladol i egluro bod yr alwad hon yn fater o frys. Rwyf wedi cael ymateb gan y Gweinidog ynni, ac rwy'n fwy na pharod i'w rannu â fy nghyd-Aelodau yn y Siambr yn y Senedd heddiw. Bwriad y rheolau presennol, wrth gwrs, oedd amddiffyn y rhai mwyaf agored i niwed yn ein cymdeithas, ond nid ydynt wedi gweithio. Mae'n amlwg nad ydynt yn gweithio fel y bwriadwyd, ac mae'n rhaid inni edrych ar hynny. Felly, gofynnais y cwestiwn hwnnw i fwrdd Ofgem heddiw. Mae'n rhaid iddynt reoleiddio'r diwydiant yn effeithiol, ac yn fy nghyfarfod â hwy, gyda chadeirydd a bwrdd Ofgem y bore yma, dywedais wrthynt: a ydynt yn gwneud defnydd effeithiol o'u pwerau presennol fel rheoleiddiwr? A ydynt yn defnyddio'r pwerau hynny? A ydynt yn gallu gwneud digon i reoleiddio'r sector yn effeithiol? A oes angen deddfwriaeth gryfach? Beth y gallwn ei wneud o ran y pwerau pellach sydd eu hangen i reoleiddio'r sector? A hefyd, yn eu hymateb, byddaf yn rhannu gyda'r Senedd heddiw eu bod wedi dweud eu bod wedi lansio ymchwiliad cadarn i weithgarwch Nwy Prydain, yr asiantaeth casglu dyledion a ddefnyddient, a'u bod yn edrych yn fewnol ar eu gweithgareddau cydymffurfio. Dywedasant eu bod yn defnyddio eu holl bwerau presennol hyd yr eithaf, ond yn amlwg, mae angen inni glywed ganddynt, a chredaf y bydd canlyniad yr ymchwiliad hwnnw'n barod o fewn yr ychydig wythnosau nesaf. Yn olaf, ar eich pwynt ynglŷn â dŵr, mae gwres ac ynni'n wasanaethau hanfodol i'n cartrefi. Fel gyda dŵr, ni ddylai cwmnïau cyflenwi ynni allu datgysylltu defnyddwyr, ac rwy'n mynd i godi'r pwynt penodol hwn, fel y gwneuthum heddiw gydag Ofgem, gyda Llywodraeth y DU.

Last month, prior to your 31 January and 2 February letters to the UK Government and before The Times investigation revealed British Gas routinely sending debt collectors to break into customers' homes and force-fit prepayment meters, even when they're known to have extreme vulnerabilities, the then UK business Secretary Grant Shapps wrote to energy suppliers, stating that they should stop forcing vulnerable customers onto prepayment meters and that they should make greater efforts to help those struggling to pay their bills. He called for the urgent publication of the energy suppliers' recent investigation into vulnerable customers, and the release of data on applications suppliers had made to forcibly install meters. Last week, Ofgem asked energy companies to suspend the forced installation of prepayment meters, and on Monday, Lord Justice Edis ordered magistrates' courts in England and Wales to stop authorising warrants for energy firms to forcibly install prepayment meters with immediate effect. On the same day, the UK energy Minister, Graham Stuart, met the boss of Ofgem and told him that the UK Government expected strong and immediate action where suppliers fall short of their obligations. In light of your call for an outright ban, what consideration have you given to concerns of a consequent increase in bailiff action, which I believe is the only thing that's held the UK Government back? And how will you work with British Gas to promote their ring-fenced prepayment customer support fund, targeted to help prepayment and vulnerable customers, who must apply, nonetheless, for this? Thank you.

Fis diwethaf, cyn eich llythyrau ar 31 Ionawr a 2 Chwefror i Lywodraeth y DU a chyn i ymchwiliad The Times ddatgelu bod Nwy Prydain yn anfon casglwyr dyledion fel mater o drefn i dorri i mewn i gartrefi cwsmeriaid a gosod mesuryddion rhagdalu gorfodol, hyd yn oed pan oeddent yn ymwybodol eu bod yn hynod agored i niwed, ysgrifennodd Grant Shapps, Ysgrifennydd busnes y DU ar y pryd, at gyflenwyr ynni i ddatgan y dylent roi'r gorau i osod mesuryddion rhagdalu gorfodol yng nghartrefi cwsmeriaid agored i niwed ac y dylent wneud mwy o ymdrech i helpu'r rheini sy'n ei chael hi'n anodd talu eu biliau. Galwodd am gyhoeddi ymchwiliad diweddar y cyflenwyr ynni i gwsmeriaid agored i niwed ar unwaith, a rhyddhau data ar y ceisiadau a wnaed gan gyflenwyr i osod mesuryddion gorfodol. Yr wythnos diwethaf, gofynnodd Ofgem i gwmnïau ynni roi'r gorau dros dro i osod mesuryddion rhagdalu gorfodol, a ddydd Llun, gorchmynnodd yr Arglwydd Ustus Edis lysoedd ynadon yng Nghymru a Lloegr i roi'r gorau ar unwaith i awdurdodi gwarantau i gwmnïau ynni osod mesuryddion rhagdalu gorfodol. Ar yr un diwrnod, cyfarfu Gweinidog ynni y DU, Graham Stuart, â phennaeth Ofgem a dweud wrtho fod Llywodraeth y DU yn disgwyl camau gweithredu cryf ac ar unwaith pan na fydd cyflenwyr yn cyflawni eu rhwymedigaethau. Yn sgil eich galwad am waharddiad llwyr, pa ystyriaeth rydych wedi'i rhoi i bryderon ynghylch cynnydd dilynol mewn gweithredu gan feilïaid, sef yr unig beth sydd, yn ôl yr hyn a ddeallaf, wedi dal Llywodraeth y DU yn ôl? A sut y byddwch yn gweithio gyda Nwy Prydain i hyrwyddo eu cronfa gymorth a glustnodwyd ar gyfer cwsmeriaid ar fesuryddion rhagdalu, ac a dargedwyd i helpu cwsmeriaid ar fesuryddion rhagdalu a chwsmeriaid sy'n agored i niwed, sydd er hynny'n gorfod gwneud cais amdano? Diolch.

Thank you, Mark Isherwood, for your questions, and I hope you will back my call for a meeting with the Secretary of State. Of course, I have written to the Secretary of State and I have had a response from the energy Minister. I think what is very clear is that we've got to recognise the scale of this: 200,000 households in Wales use prepayment meters for their mains gas and electricity; 15 per cent of all households, 24 per cent of tenants in the private rented sector, and almost half of social housing tenants use prepayment meters, and they're on the lowest incomes. We are talking about those who are most vulnerable. What I've said to the UK Government is that, yes, we're pleased to see energy suppliers halting the practice of forced installation, but what did it take? It took the investigation of The Times, and politicians like Jack Sargeant, and indeed Ed Miliband, I would say, to expose what was going on. Enforcement didn't work. The UK Government isn't acting enough to look at the new legislation that probably needs to come forward. There is a lack of Ofgem safeguards in place. I said to Ofgem, 'We will support you if you need more regulatory power; we need to support you to do this.' We have to await the outcome of that investigation into British Gas. I've met with energy suppliers on a number of occasions. They've given me assurances about the way they're treating and supporting vulnerable customers. I find it very hard to actually take on board some of the assurances they've given me when we hear particularly of their use of these unscrupulous debt collection agencies. I am meeting the Enforcement Conduct Board next week, and I will be able to report back on that, because we need to look at their work. I was glad that that was raised yesterday by Peredur in terms of their use and in terms of looking at how accredited enforcement agents are key to this. I will certainly be responding to and updating the Senedd on these issues.

Diolch am eich cwestiynau, Mark Isherwood, ac rwy'n gobeithio y byddwch yn cefnogi fy ngalwad am gyfarfod gyda'r Ysgrifennydd Gwladol. Wrth gwrs, rwyf wedi ysgrifennu at yr Ysgrifennydd Gwladol ac rwyf wedi cael ymateb gan y Gweinidog ynni. Rwy'n credu mai'r hyn sy'n glir iawn yw bod yn rhaid inni gydnabod maint y broblem: mae 200,000 o aelwydydd yng Nghymru yn defnyddio mesuryddion rhagdalu ar gyfer eu prif gyflenwad nwy a thrydan; mae 15 y cant o'n holl aelwydydd, 24 y cant o denantiaid yn y sector rhentu preifat, a bron i hanner y tenantiaid tai cymdeithasol yn defnyddio mesuryddion rhagdalu, a hwy sydd ar yr incwm isaf. Rydym yn sôn am y bobl fwyaf agored i niwed. Yr hyn a ddywedais wrth Lywodraeth y DU yw ein bod yn falch o weld cyflenwyr ynni yn rhoi'r gorau i'r arfer o osod mesuryddion rhagdalu gorfodol, ond beth a gymerodd i wneud hynny? Cymerodd ymchwiliad The Times, a gwleidyddion fel Jack Sargeant, ac yn wir, Ed Miliband, byddwn yn dweud, i ddatgelu'r hyn a oedd yn digwydd. Ni weithiodd camau gorfodi. Nid yw Llywodraeth y DU yn gweithredu digon i edrych ar y ddeddfwriaeth newydd y bydd angen ei chyflwyno yn ôl pob tebyg. Nid oes digon o fesurau diogelu ar waith gan Ofgem. Dywedais wrth Ofgem, 'Fe wnawn eich cefnogi os oes angen mwy o bwerau rheoleiddio arnoch; mae angen inni eich cefnogi i wneud hyn.' Mae'n rhaid inni aros am ganlyniad yr ymchwiliad i Nwy Prydain. Rwyf wedi cyfarfod â chyflenwyr ynni ar sawl achlysur. Maent wedi rhoi sicrwydd i mi ynglŷn â'r ffordd y maent yn trin ac yn cefnogi cwsmeriaid agored i niwed. Rwy'n ei chael hi'n anodd iawn derbyn rhywfaint o'r sicrwydd y maent wedi'i roi i mi pan glywn am eu defnydd o'r asiantaethau casglu dyledion diegwyddor hyn yn enwedig. Rwyf yn cyfarfod â'r Bwrdd Ymddygiad Gorfodi yr wythnos nesaf, a byddaf yn gallu adrodd yn ôl ar hynny, gan fod angen inni edrych ar eu gwaith. Roeddwn yn falch fod Peredur wedi codi hynny ddoe ynglŷn â'u defnydd ac o ran edrych ar sut mae asiantau gorfodi achrededig yn allweddol i hyn. Byddaf yn sicr yn ymateb i'r Senedd ac yn rhoi'r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf am y materion hyn.

In the cross-party group on consumer rights, which I chair, we heard on Monday from Which?. Their latest report, published this week, showed that 92 per cent of Welsh consumers are worried about energy prices higher than in England and Scotland, and that consumers are engaging in cost-saving behaviours that may be detrimental to their health. We know it's detrimental to their health: 78 per cent putting the heating on less, 18 per cent having fewer cooked meals. The Welsh Government must take action to do what it can to safeguard its citizens. Citizens Advice Cymru in that same cross-party group shared the frustration. Their graphs were showing plainly what was happening as regards prepayment meters, and they were completely frustrated that it took The Times to be able to get some action from the UK Government on this. The distribution and supply of electricity and the supply of gas are, of course, both reserved to Westminster under the Government of Wales Act 2006. Consumer protection is also a reserved matter. Given this, what representations has the Welsh Government made to get these powers devolved, so we can ensure that the ban we need is implemented and maintained? Will the Minister call on the UK Government to devolve these powers? Also, we've heard, I think it was just yesterday, on the news that the take-up of vouchers available for prepay customers under the UK Government's energy bills support scheme is well below what was expected. Has the Welsh Government approached the UK Government to ensure any unspent or unredeemed money is used to support those vulnerable households here in Wales who are in fuel poverty and on prepayment meters?

Yn y grŵp trawsbleidiol rwy'n ei gadeirio ar hawliau defnyddwyr, clywsom ddydd Llun gan Which?. Dangosodd eu hadroddiad diweddaraf, a gyhoeddwyd yr wythnos hon, fod 92 y cant o ddefnyddwyr Cymru yn poeni am brisiau ynni uwch nag yn Lloegr a'r Alban, a bod defnyddwyr yn cymryd camau i arbed costau a allai fod yn niweidiol i'w hiechyd. Gwyddom eu bod yn niweidiol i'w hiechyd: mae 78 y cant yn rhoi'r gwres ymlaen yn llai aml, 18 y cant yn bwyta llai o brydau wedi'u coginio. Mae'n rhaid i Lywodraeth Cymru gymryd camau i wneud popeth yn ei gallu i ddiogelu ei dinasyddion. Yn yr un grŵp trawsbleidiol hwnnw, roedd Cyngor ar Bopeth Cymru yn rhannu'r rhwystredigaeth. Roedd eu graffiau'n dangos yn glir yr hyn sy'n digwydd gyda mesuryddion rhagdalu, ac roeddent yn gwbl rwystredig ei bod wedi cymryd sylw yn The Times i allu ennyn rhywfaint o gamau gweithredu gan Lywodraeth y DU ar hyn. Mae dosbarthiad a chyflenwad trydan a'r cyflenwad nwy, wrth gwrs, ill dau'n faterion a gedwir yn ôl yn San Steffan o dan Ddeddf Llywodraeth Cymru 2006. Mae diogelu defnyddwyr hefyd yn fater a gedwir yn ôl. O gofio hyn, pa sylwadau y mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi'u gwneud i gael y pwerau hyn wedi'u datganoli, fel y gallwn sicrhau bod y gwaharddiad sydd ei angen arnom yn cael ei weithredu a'i gynnal? A wnaiff y Gweinidog alw ar Lywodraeth y DU i ddatganoli'r pwerau hyn? Hefyd, clywsom ar y newyddion ddoe, rwy'n credu, fod y nifer sy'n manteisio ar y talebau sydd ar gael i gwsmeriaid rhagdalu o dan gynllun cymorth biliau ynni Llywodraeth y DU ymhell islaw'r hyn a ragwelwyd. A yw Llywodraeth Cymru wedi cysylltu â Llywodraeth y DU i sicrhau bod unrhyw arian heb ei wario neu ei hawlio'n cael ei ddefnyddio i gefnogi'r aelwydydd agored i niwed yma yng Nghymru sydd mewn tlodi tanwydd ac ar fesuryddion rhagdalu?

Thank you very much, Sioned Williams, for reporting on that CPG on consumer rights. I'm shortly meeting with National Energy Action and Citizens Advice, who are key to inform us, and inform us regularly, of the evidence and also of the policy moves that we need to take. I think this is time when we do look to what powers we've got, the ways in which we can intervene when so much is reserved, which is why we have to press the UK Government on these issues. I think this is about the most vulnerable people. I've mentioned the numbers who are on prepayment meters. We have intervened in ways that we can, not just with our winter fuel support scheme, but with our partnership with the Fuel Bank Foundation, to make sure that people can access fuel vouchers through these difficult months. Again, I said to Ofgem today - they were meeting in Cardiff - 'You have got to show to us what the impact of your investigation into British Gas will be' in terms of their use of those debt enforcement agents, which is so shocking and appalling. My colleague the Counsel General is questioning the courts and the ways in which the courts have forced through these warrants. Worryingly, as he identified, over the past three years, over 22,000 warrants have been issued through Swansea magistrates' court, not just for people in Wales, we understand. This actually makes a strong case for the devolution of justice, doesn't it, in terms of the way forward. But I finally want to say, and it is important, that I raised the issue about how can citizens on prepayment meters redeem their vouchers. Citizens Advice has said that all of the efforts to reach those customers are still not effective, as you've identified. I did get a response from the UK Government and, indeed, from energy suppliers saying that vouchers can be reissued, and we expect them to continue to do that even if the 90 days have expired. But, again, we will use this opportunity to promote the ways in which people - the suppliers and indeed customers - can access those vouchers.

Diolch yn fawr iawn, Sioned Williams, am adrodd ar y grŵp trawsbleidiol ar hawliau defnyddwyr. Byddaf yn cyfarfod cyn bo hir â National Energy Action a Cyngor ar Bopeth, sy'n allweddol o ran rhoi gwybod i ni, a rhoi gwybod i ni'n rheolaidd, am y dystiolaeth a'r cyfeiriad y mae angen inni fynd iddo o ran polisi. Credaf fod hon yn adeg pan fyddwn yn edrych ar y pwerau sydd gennym, y ffyrdd y gallwn ymyrryd pan fydd cymaint wedi'i gadw yn ôl, a dyna pam fod yn rhaid inni bwyso ar Lywodraeth y DU ar y materion hyn. Credaf fod hyn yn ymwneud â'r bobl fwyaf agored i niwed. Rwyf wedi sôn am y niferoedd sydd ar fesuryddion rhagdalu. Rydym wedi ymyrryd yn y ffyrdd y gallwn, nid yn unig gyda'n cynllun cymorth tanwydd y gaeaf, ond gyda'n partneriaeth â'r Sefydliad Banc Tanwydd, i sicrhau y gall pobl gael mynediad at dalebau tanwydd drwy'r misoedd anodd hyn. Unwaith eto, dywedais wrth Ofgem heddiw - roeddent yn cyfarfod yng Nghaerdydd - 'Mae'n rhaid ichi ddangos i ni beth fydd effaith eich ymchwiliad i Nwy Prydain' o ran eu defnydd syfrdanol a gwarthus o'r asiantau gorfodi dyledion hynny. Mae fy nghyd-Aelod, y Cwnsler Cyffredinol, yn cwestiynu'r llysoedd a'r ffyrdd y mae'r llysoedd wedi gwthio'r gwarantau hyn drwodd. Mae'n achos pryder, fel y nododd, fod dros 22,000 o warantau wedi'u cyhoeddi drwy lys ynadon Abertawe dros y tair blynedd diwethaf, nid yn unig i bobl yng Nghymru, yn ôl yr hyn a ddeallwn. Mae hyn yn creu achos cryf dros ddatganoli cyfiawnder, onid yw, o ran y ffordd ymlaen. Ond i gloi, hoffwn ddweud, ac mae'n bwysig, fy mod wedi codi'r mater ynglŷn â sut y gall dinasyddion ar fesuryddion rhagdalu ddefnyddio eu talebau. Mae Cyngor ar Bopeth wedi dweud nad yw'r holl ymdrechion i gyrraedd y cwsmeriaid hynny yn effeithiol o hyd, fel rydych wedi'i nodi. Cefais ymateb gan Lywodraeth y DU, ac yn wir, gan gyflenwyr ynni yn dweud y gellir ailgyhoeddi talebau, ac rydym yn disgwyl iddynt barhau i wneud hynny hyd yn oed os yw'r cyfnod 90 diwrnod wedi dod i ben. Ond unwaith eto, byddwn yn defnyddio'r cyfle hwn i hyrwyddo'r ffyrdd y gall pobl - y cyflenwyr, a'r cwsmeriaid yn wir - gael gafael ar y talebau hynny.

This scandalous exploitation of individuals who have the least and who need to keep warm, like everybody else, really exposes that we have a completely broken system. So, if you ever get the chance to talk to the UK Government about their failure to act on this - . It's been over three months that Jack Sargeant has been raising this in the Senedd. And what have the magistrates been doing when they issue these licences? Have they been asking whether these individuals are vulnerable and are able to get to the shop in order to top up their credit? It seems to me that what we need, Minister, is a complete overhaul of the regulatory system - Ofgem has been exposed as a paper tiger - and we also need to put a stop to this business of charging those on prepayment meters more than those who are paying by direct debit. It's absolutely scandalous, given that there is no service. You don't have to go and look at the meter to see how much people have used in the way of energy, they know that. So, it seems to be absolutely - . So, will you have discussions (a) with the Ministry of Justice, as to how they're going to increase the awareness of the magistrates of how ordinary people live; and (b) will you urge the UK Government to completely overhaul the regulatory system, otherwise known as Ofgem?

Mae'r camfanteisio gwarthus hwn ar yr unigolion a chanddynt leiaf ac sydd angen cadw'n gynnes fel pawb arall, yn dangos yn glir fod gennym system sydd wedi torri'n llwyr. Felly, os cewch byth gyfle i siarad â Llywodraeth y DU am eu methiant i weithredu ar hyn - . Mae Jack Sargeant wedi bod yn codi hyn yn y Senedd ers dros dri mis. A beth mae'r ynadon wedi bod yn ei wneud wrth roi'r trwyddedau hyn? A ydynt wedi bod yn gofyn a yw'r unigolion hyn yn agored i niwed ac yn gallu cyrraedd y siop er mwyn ychwanegu at eu credyd? Ymddengys i mi mai'r hyn sydd ei angen arnom, Weinidog, yw ailwampio'r system reoleiddio'n llwyr - dangoswyd bod Ofgem yn ddi-rym - ac mae angen inni hefyd roi diwedd ar yr arfer o godi mwy ar y rheini sydd ar fesuryddion rhagdalu na'r rheini sy'n talu drwy ddebyd uniongyrchol. Mae'n gwbl warthus, o ystyried nad oes gwasanaeth. Nid oes ond raid ichi edrych ar y mesurydd i weld faint o ynni y mae pobl wedi'i ddefnyddio, maent yn gwybod hynny. Felly, mae'n ymddangos yn hollol - . Felly, a wnewch chi gael trafodaethau (a) gyda'r Weinyddiaeth Gyfiawnder, ynglŷn â'r modd y maent yn mynd i gynyddu ymwybyddiaeth yr ynadon o sut mae pobl gyffredin yn byw; a (b) a wnewch chi annog Llywodraeth y DU i ailwampio'r system reoleiddio, a elwir hefyd yn Ofgem, yn llwyr?

Certainly I will follow up all of those points, Jenny Rathbone, Chair of the Equality and Social Justice Committee, with the UK Government and, indeed, with Ofgem. I said, 'You need a complete overhaul of regulations' to Ofgem, and we'll see what impact their enforcement powers have in terms of their investigations in terms of British Gas. Yes, it did take Lord Justice Edis, as Mark Isherwood said, to stop those applications for warrants for prepayment meters in magistrates' and district judges' courts, so that's what the Counsel General is following up as well. They've ceased to be listed, but when you hear of the way that they were going through the back rooms of courts, people with no representation - £22, I think the Counsel General has been saying; the money that was made by the courts out of this - we need a review of the legislation. In fact, that is actually something that Lord Justice Edis said himself. I think the point is, finally, that it is the most vulnerable and the poorest in society who are on prepayment meters. They should be scrapped. Yes, it is a choice for some, but one of the questions that has been asked, and I'm sure it has been asked in your cross-party groups, is: has remote installation stopped? No, I don't believe it has. Enforced installation has stopped, but remote installation is still going on. Finally, I have asked for suppliers not to be making standing charges. They're the highest in north Wales in the whole of the UK, and very high in south Wales. And even if people cannot even feed their meters, they're still subject to the standing charges, so when they get their fuel vouchers, perhaps via us, they actually are paying off the standing charges. Isn't that an absolutely shocking situation, which we've got to address?

Yn sicr, byddaf yn mynd ar drywydd pob un o'r pwyntiau hynny, Jenny Rathbone, Cadeirydd y Pwyllgor Cydraddoldeb a Chyfiawnder Cymdeithasol, gyda Llywodraeth y DU, ac yn wir, gydag Ofgem. Dywedais wrth Ofgem, 'Mae angen ichi ailwampio'r rheoliadau'n llwyr', a chawn weld pa effaith y mae eu pwerau gorfodi yn ei chael o ran eu hymchwiliadau i Nwy Prydain. Do, fel y dywedodd Mark Isherwood, cymerodd alwad gan yr Arglwydd Ustus Edis i atal y ceisiadau am warantau ar gyfer mesuryddion rhagdalu mewn llysoedd ynadon a llysoedd barnwyr rhanbarth, felly mae'r Cwnsler Cyffredinol yn mynd ar drywydd hynny hefyd. Nid ydynt wedi'u rhestru mwyach, ond pan glywch am y ffordd roeddent yn mynd drwy ystafelloedd cefn y llysoedd, pobl heb unrhyw gynrychiolaeth - £22, credaf i'r Cwnsler Cyffredinol ddweud; yr arian a wnaed gan y llysoedd o hyn - mae angen inni adolygu'r ddeddfwriaeth. Mewn gwirionedd, dywedodd yr Arglwydd Ustus Edis hynny ei hun. Yn olaf, credaf mai'r pwynt yw mai'r rhai mwyaf agored i niwed a'r tlotaf mewn cymdeithas sydd ar fesuryddion rhagdalu. Dylid cael gwared arnynt. Ydy, mae'n ddewis i rai, ond un o'r cwestiynau a ofynnwyd, ac rwy'n siŵr ei fod wedi'i ofyn yn eich grwpiau trawsbleidiol, yw: a yw gosod mesuryddion o bell wedi dod i ben? Na, ni chredaf ei fod. Mae gosod gorfodol wedi dod i ben, ond mae gosod o bell yn dal i ddigwydd. Yn olaf, rwyf wedi gofyn i gyflenwyr beidio â chodi taliadau sefydlog. Yng ngogledd Cymru, maent yn uwch nag yn unrhyw le arall yn y DU gyfan, ac maent yn uchel iawn yn ne Cymru. A hyd yn oed os na all pobl roi arian yn eu mesuryddion, maent yn dal i orfod talu'r taliadau sefydlog, felly pan fyddant yn cael eu talebau tanwydd, drwom ni o bosibl, maent ond yn talu'r taliadau sefydlog. Onid yw honno'n sefyllfa gwbl warthus y mae'n rhaid inni fynd i'r afael â hi?

The Minister has answered part of what I was going to raise, because the Minister is quite used to me talking about the problem of people having standing charges. I understand from The Observer last Sunday that standing charges can be up to 50p a day. Most of us don't consider having to spend a day without putting on any lights, without putting on any television, without putting on any heating. That is the life of a number of my constituents, where they have to not use any energy, and then when they do - . As one constituent told me - I've mentioned this to the Minister before and I'm going to keep on mentioning it - she had not used any energy for four days, she heated or warmed a tin of soup, and her energy costs went over £2 because she hadn't used any energy for four days. Does the Minister agree that we've got to get standing charges ended and that we need to get them ended now? Because what is happening is the poorest are paying more and more for less and less. It is a scandal; it is a scandal that should not have been allowed, and certainly one we need to bring to an end.

Mae'r Gweinidog wedi ateb rhan o'r hyn roeddwn yn mynd i'w godi, gan fod y Gweinidog wedi hen arfer â mi'n sôn am broblem pobl yn gorfod talu taliadau sefydlog. Deallaf o ddarllen The Observer ddydd Sul diwethaf y gall taliadau sefydlog fod hyd at 50c y dydd. Nid yw'r rhan fwyaf ohonom yn ystyried gorfod treulio diwrnod heb roi unrhyw oleuadau ymlaen, heb wylio unrhyw deledu, heb roi'r gwres ymlaen o gwbl. Dyna fywyd nifer o fy etholwyr, lle mae'n rhaid iddynt beidio â defnyddio unrhyw ynni, ac yna pan fyddant yn gwneud hynny - . Fel y dywedodd un etholwr wrthyf - rwyf wedi sôn am hyn wrth y Gweinidog o'r blaen ac rwy'n mynd i barhau i sôn amdano - nid oedd wedi defnyddio unrhyw ynni ers pedwar diwrnod, yna cynhesodd dun o gawl, ac aeth ei chostau ynni dros £2 gan nad oedd wedi defnyddio unrhyw ynni ers pedwar diwrnod. A yw'r Gweinidog yn cytuno bod yn rhaid inni ddod â thaliadau sefydlog i ben a bod angen inni ddod â hwy i ben nawr? Oherwydd yr hyn sy'n digwydd yw bod y bobl dlotaf yn talu mwy a mwy am lai a llai. Mae'n sgandal; mae'n sgandal na ddylai fod wedi'i chaniatáu, ac yn sicr, mae'n un y mae angen inni roi diwedd arni.

Can I thank the Llywydd for enabling more Members to make the points and ask the questions today to this topical question? Yes, the standing charges are an outrage in terms of the impact they have on people's lives. Can I just go back to the point that was raised by Jack Sargeant in his supplementary question? We need the sort of legislation we've got in the water industry to prevent customers being disconnected even if they are in arrears, and we need to get Ofgem to take on those powers to safeguard vulnerable customers. But I will continue to press for the end of those standing charges, which energy suppliers, with all the profits that are being made, can afford to cut and cover.

A gaf fi ddiolch i'r Llywydd am alluogi mwy o Aelodau i wneud y pwyntiau a gofyn y cwestiynau heddiw ar gyfer y cwestiwn amserol hwn? Mae'n wir fod y taliadau sefydlog yn warthus o ran yr effaith a gânt ar fywydau pobl. A gaf fi fynd yn ôl at y pwynt a godwyd gan Jack Sargeant yn ei gwestiwn atodol? Mae arnom angen y math o ddeddfwriaeth sydd gennym yn y diwydiant dŵr i atal cwsmeriaid rhag cael eu datgysylltu hyd yn oed os oes ganddynt ôl-ddyledion, ac mae arnom angen i Ofgem gael y pwerau hynny i ddiogelu cwsmeriaid agored i niwed. Ond rwyf am barhau i bwyso am roi diwedd ar y taliadau sefydlog hynny, y gall cyflenwyr ynni, gyda'r holl elw sy'n cael ei wneud, fforddio eu torri a'u talu.

Just one more - Andrew R.T. Davies.

Dim ond un arall - Andrew R.T. Davies.

Thank you, Presiding Officer, for allowing the question. Minister, I'm grateful to you for your answers so far today on the abhorrent practices that we saw last week. I do not absolve the UK Government from responsibility in this; they do have responsibility. They're ultimately the Government that sets the legislative framework. But one thing I do think is a fundamental weakness here is the point that Jenny Rathbone made and others have made: Ofgem is completely not fit to purpose. I speak from a business point of view, and I declare an interest in that I've had interaction with Ofgem. I've raised it with the First Minister himself here on several occasions in First Minister's questions about Wales having its own place on the board of Ofgem - a dedicated board member, so that Welsh interests can be truly represented. I understand the Welsh Government meet periodically with them, as you've done today. Did you pose the question to those board members today? Do they consider, in light of the evidence over the last 12 months, that they themselves are fit for purpose, given the blight that we've seen on people's lives with the revelations that came out last week, but also the impotency they seem to have in face of what's gone on in the electric and energy market over the last 12 months in particular, where businesses and consumers have felt helpless at the hands of many large companies who've shown no respect for the wishes and concerns of people and the situations they find themselves in?

Diolch am ganiatáu'r cwestiwn, Lywydd. Weinidog, rwy'n ddiolchgar i chi am eich atebion hyd yn hyn heddiw ar yr arferion ffiaidd a welsom yr wythnos diwethaf. Nid wyf yn rhyddhau Llywodraeth y DU rhag eu cyfrifoldeb yn hyn o beth; mae ganddynt gyfrifoldeb. Hwy, yn y pen draw, yw'r Llywodraeth sy'n gosod y fframwaith deddfwriaethol. Ond un peth y credaf sy'n wendid sylfaenol yma yw'r pwynt a wnaeth Jenny Rathbone ac eraill: nid yw Ofgem yn addas i'r diben o gwbl. Rwy'n siarad o safbwynt busnes, ac rwy'n datgan buddiant yn yr ystyr fy mod wedi ymwneud ag Ofgem. Rwyf wedi codi'r mater gyda'r Prif Weinidog ei hun yma ar sawl achlysur yn y cwestiynau i'r Prif Weinidog ynglŷn â lle i Gymru ar fwrdd Ofgem - aelod penodedig o'r bwrdd, fel y gellir cynrychioli buddiannau Cymru yn briodol. Rwy'n deall bod Llywodraeth Cymru yn cyfarfod â hwy o bryd i'w gilydd, fel y gwnaethoch chi heddiw. A wnaethoch chi ofyn y cwestiwn i aelodau'r bwrdd heddiw? A ydynt o'r farn, yng ngoleuni'r dystiolaeth dros y 12 mis diwethaf, eu bod hwy eu hunain yn addas i'r diben, o ystyried y malltod a welsom ar fywydau pobl gyda'r hyn a ddaeth i'r amlwg yr wythnos diwethaf, ond hefyd eu hanallu ymddangosiadol yn wyneb yr hyn sydd wedi digwydd yn y farchnad drydan ac ynni dros y 12 mis diwethaf yn enwedig, lle mae busnesau a defnyddwyr wedi teimlo'n ddiobaith dan law llawer o gwmnïau mawr nad ydynt wedi dangos unrhyw barch at ddymuniadau a phryderon pobl a'u sefyllfaoedd?

Thank you very much, Andrew R.T. Davies. I was standing in for the First Minister today at the Ofgem board. They were meeting in the UK Government offices in Central Square, where they actually have an Ofgem office, which actually, they told me, is being expanded in terms of their presence here in Wales. The chair of the Ofgem board is actually representing Welsh interests. They've been here for two days making visits to Tata and to local energy initiatives as well. I think your points are very well made. We have to see now whether or not they are using their powers, which they say they have got, in terms of a root-and-branch review of what is happening, what the scandal is, and then question what their role is. Diolch.

Diolch yn fawr iawn, Andrew R.T. Davies. Bûm yn dirprwyo dros y Prif Weinidog heddiw ar fwrdd Ofgem. Roeddent yn cyfarfod yn swyddfeydd Llywodraeth y DU yn y Sgwâr Canolog, lle mae ganddynt swyddfa Ofgem, a fydd yn cael ei hehangu, yn ôl yr hyn roeddent yn ei ddweud wrthyf, o ran eu presenoldeb yma yng Nghymru. Mae cadeirydd bwrdd Ofgem yn cynrychioli buddiannau Cymru. Maent wedi bod yma ers dau ddiwrnod yn ymweld â Tata a mentrau ynni lleol hefyd. Credaf fod eich pwyntiau wedi'u gwneud yn dda iawn. Mae'n rhaid inni weld nawr a ydynt yn defnyddio eu pwerau ai peidio, y pwerau y dywedant sydd ganddynt, o ran adolygiad trwyadl o'r hyn sy'n digwydd, beth yw'r sgandal, a chwestiynu wedyn beth yw eu rôl hwy. Diolch.

Thanks very much. A written statement has literally just been issued on this topic, but I'm happy to set out some aspects of the offer to NHS workers in order to stave off industrial action, if that is helpful.

Diolch yn fawr iawn. Yn llythrennol, mae datganiad ysgrifenedig newydd gael ei gyhoeddi ar y pwnc hwn, ond rwy'n fwy na pharod i nodi rhai agweddau ar y cynnig i weithwyr y GIG er mwyn osgoi gweithredu diwydiannol, os yw hynny'n ddefnyddiol.

Thank you, Minister, for your answer this afternoon. I do hope, of course, that a solution is found and agreed that can lead to further industrial action not taking place in Wales. I have asked my topical question this afternoon because I had further questions following your written statement on Friday. Of course, in the last 10 minutes, a further written statement has landed in the inbox of Senedd Members. I'm glad that the topical question has brought forward this written statement, which perhaps answers some of the questions that I had, but also perhaps provides some more questions that I have as well, given this opportunity now, Minister. But can I first of all ask: do you believe that the source of funding for this proposal is sustainable? And the reason I ask that question is that the finance Minister told the BBC that it was being funded from reserves. But what about future years, and how will the year-on-year pay settlement be funded? I looked very quickly, Minister, through your written statement over the last 10 minutes. With regard to working hours, you talked about a working group that's being set up and reporting by the autumn. That sounds positive, but perhaps you can outline what the remit of that working group is. 'Flexible working' - that was another headline I was pleased to see, Minister. Perhaps you can say a little bit more about your retire and return strategy that you've outlined in your statement this afternoon. I was very pleased to see the headline of 'Reduction in use of agency'. I suppose the question there is: how? There wasn't a great deal of detail in the statement, so perhaps you can expand further on that. And I was particularly interested in your point in your statement this afternoon, Minister, on pay restoration, and you're talking about influencing the UK Government, the pay review body. But can I ask: what about the influencing that you might have on your own pay review body in that regard as well? Thank you, Minister.

Diolch am eich ateb y prynhawn yma, Weinidog. Wrth gwrs, rwy'n gobeithio y gellir cytuno ar ateb a all arwain at osgoi gweithredu diwydiannol pellach yng Nghymru. Rwyf wedi gofyn fy nghwestiwn amserol y prynhawn yma gan fod cwestiynau pellach gennyf yn dilyn eich datganiad ysgrifenedig ddydd Gwener. Wrth gwrs, yn y 10 munud diwethaf, mae datganiad ysgrifenedig pellach wedi glanio ym mewnflwch Aelodau'r Senedd. Rwy'n falch fod y cwestiwn amserol wedi arwain at y datganiad ysgrifenedig hwn, sydd efallai'n ateb rhai o'r cwestiynau a oedd gennyf, ond sydd hefyd efallai'n arwain at fwy o gwestiynau gennyf hefyd, o ystyried y cyfle hwn nawr, Weinidog. Ond a gaf fi ofyn yn gyntaf: a ydych yn credu bod ffynhonnell y cyllid ar gyfer y cynnig hwn yn gynaliadwy? A'r rheswm y gofynnaf y cwestiwn hwnnw yw am fod y Gweinidog cyllid wedi dweud wrth y BBC ei fod yn cael ei ariannu o'r cronfeydd wrth gefn. Ond beth am y blynyddoedd i ddod, a sut bydd y setliad cyflog yn cael ei ariannu o un flwyddyn i'r llall? Rwyf wedi edrych yn gyflym iawn drwy eich datganiad ysgrifenedig dros y 10 munud diwethaf, Weinidog. O ran oriau gwaith, fe sonioch chi am weithgor sy'n cael ei sefydlu ac sy'n adrodd erbyn yr hydref. Mae hynny'n swnio'n gadarnhaol, ond efallai y gallwch amlinellu beth yw cylch gwaith y gweithgor hwnnw. 'Gweithio hyblyg' - dyna bennawd arall roeddwn yn falch o'i weld, Weinidog. Efallai y gallwch ddweud ychydig mwy ynglŷn â'ch strategaeth ymddeol a dychwelyd a amlinellwyd gennych yn eich datganiad y prynhawn yma. Roeddwn yn falch iawn o weld y pennawd 'Lleihau'r defnydd o staff asiantaeth'. Mae'n debyg mai'r cwestiwn yn y cyswllt hwnnw yw: sut? Nid oedd llawer iawn o fanylion yn y datganiad, felly efallai y gallwch ymhelaethu ar hynny. Ac roedd gennyf ddiddordeb arbennig yn eich pwynt yn eich datganiad y prynhawn yma, Weinidog, ar adfer lefelau cyflog, ac rydych yn sôn am ddylanwadu ar Lywodraeth y DU, y corff adolygu cyflogau. Ond a gaf fi ofyn: beth am y dylanwad y gallech ei gael ar eich corff adolygu cyflogau eich hun yn hynny o beth hefyd? Diolch, Weinidog.

Thanks very much. And as you know, we've been negotiating very diligently over a very long period of time, very intense negotiations, and I'm really pleased that we were able to come to a conclusion on Thursday night. That was put, certainly to the officials within those unions, and the vast majority of them, I'm delighted to say, called off their industrial action, which is not insignificant - and we're talking about the RCN, the RCM, Unison, CSP, GMB, BMA, BAOT, and SOR. They all agreed not to continue with industrial action whilst they put this package to their members. So I'm really pleased that we were able to do that. I think that there's a lesson here for other Governments across the United Kingdom that, actually, sitting down and discussing can lead to some positive conclusions. Now, what I'm absolutely clear about is that this is not over. The decisions on this will ultimately be for the rank-and-file members of those trade unions, who will now need to determine whether they want to pick up that package that has been so carefully worked out. It's not been an easy process; it's been a very challenging process. And just in terms of some of the points that you made - . And you're quite right, it is literally this minute that this has come through. That's not actually because of the topical question but because, literally, we have just finished negotiating with the trade unions, so it was absolutely down to the wire, and I'm glad that it's coincided with your question, Russell. But, just in terms of the sources of funding, I just think it's really important that people understand that we've said, the whole time during this process, that there is an amount of money for this financial year, and what we've done is we've raided our reserves to get the money to pay for this financial year. Next financial year - and the unions were very clear with us - there are some red lines, and their red line, in relation to health unions, was that they wanted to see at least an element of this being consolidated into future years. So, the truth is that we've gone at risk on this. And you asked about agency nurses, and I know this is something we're all keen to see, but now, through working with the trade unions, I think it will be much easier for us to try and deliver on making efficiencies in relation to agency workers next year. But the truth is that we're going at risk to the tune of about £60 million next year. So, if we're not able to find those savings, then I am going to have a very difficult decision as health Minister to find cuts from other areas. But, we have looked at this in quite a lot of detail, we think we can do it, it will be much easier to deliver this if we do it with the trade unions, and, obviously, with the health board managers. The other thing you talked about is working hours. As you say, yes, we'll be establishing this working group, and that group will be reporting by the autumn. The retire and return - there's an element of this, obviously, which is in the hands, effectively, of the UK Government, because some of it is about pensions. So, again, I have already written to the UK Government, just to ask them to consider issues in relation to pensions for those who are ready to retire. And pay restoration, just as a principle, I think we all acknowledge that there has been an erosion over the years, and, of course, in an ideal world, we'd like to see a move towards pay restoration.

Diolch yn fawr. Ac fel y gwyddoch, rydym wedi bod yn trafod yn ddiwyd iawn dros gyfnod hir iawn, trafodaethau dwys iawn, ac rwy'n falch iawn ein bod wedi gallu dod i gasgliad nos Iau. Cafodd hwnnw ei roi, yn sicr i'r swyddogion o fewn yr undebau hynny, ac mae'r mwyafrif llethol ohonynt, rwy'n falch iawn o ddweud, wedi dod a'u gweithredu diwydiannol i ben, ac nid yw hynny'n beth bach - ac rydym yn siarad am yr RCN, yr RCM, Unison, CSP, GMB, BMA, BAOT, a SOR. Maent i gyd wedi cytuno i beidio â pharhau â gweithredu diwydiannol tra byddant yn rhoi'r pecyn hwn ger bron eu haelodau. Felly rwy'n falch iawn ein bod wedi gallu gwneud hynny. Rwy'n credu bod gwers yma i Lywodraethau eraill ar draws y Deyrnas Unedig, sef bod eistedd a thrafod yn gallu arwain at gasgliadau cadarnhaol. Nawr, rwy'n hollol glir nad yw hyn ar ben. Yn y pen draw, penderfyniadau ar gyfer aelodau cyffredin yr undebau llafur hynny fydd y rhain, a bydd angen iddynt benderfynu nawr a ydynt eisiau'r pecyn a roddwyd at ei gilydd mor ofalus. Ni fu'n broses hawdd; mae wedi bod yn broses heriol iawn. Ac ar rai o'r pwyntiau a wnaethoch - . Ac rydych chi'n hollol iawn, yn llythrennol y funud hon y daeth hyn drwodd. Nid oherwydd y cwestiwn amserol y digwyddodd hynny ond oherwydd ein bod, yn llythrennol, newydd orffen trafod gyda'r undebau llafur, felly roedd yn dynn iawn, ac rwy'n falch ei fod wedi cyd-daro â'ch cwestiwn, Russell. Ond ar ffynonellau cyllid, rwy'n meddwl ei bod hi'n bwysig iawn fod pobl yn deall beth rydym wedi'i ddweud drwy'r holl broses hon, fod yna swm o arian ar gyfer y flwyddyn ariannol hon, a'r hyn a wnaethom yw ysbeilio ein cronfeydd wrth gefn i gael yr arian i dalu am y flwyddyn ariannol hon. Y flwyddyn ariannol nesaf - ac roedd yr undebau'n glir iawn gyda ni - mae yna rai llinellau coch, a'u llinell goch hwy, mewn perthynas ag undebau iechyd, oedd eu bod hwy eisiau gweld o leiaf elfen o hyn wedi'i gyfuno ar gyfer blynyddoedd i ddod. Felly, y gwir amdani yw ein bod wedi gwneud hyn drwy risg. Ac fe wnaethoch chi holi am nyrsys asiantaeth, ac rwy'n gwybod bod hyn yn rhywbeth rydym i gyd yn awyddus i'w weld, ond nawr, drwy weithio gyda'r undebau llafur, rwy'n credu y bydd yn llawer haws inni geisio cyflawni arbedion effeithlonrwydd mewn perthynas â gweithwyr asiantaeth y flwyddyn nesaf. Ond y gwir amdani yw ein bod yn creu risg o tua £60 miliwn y flwyddyn nesaf. Felly, os na allwn ddod o hyd i'r arbedion hynny, rwy'n mynd i orfod gwneud penderfyniad anodd iawn fel Gweinidog iechyd i ddod o hyd i doriadau mewn meysydd eraill. Ond rydym wedi edrych ar hyn mewn cryn dipyn o fanylder, rydym yn credu y gallwn ei wneud, a bydd yn llawer haws cyflawni hyn os ydym yn ei wneud gyda'r undebau llafur, ac yn amlwg, gyda rheolwyr y bwrdd iechyd. Y peth arall y gwnaethoch chi sôn amdano yw oriau gwaith. Fel y dywedwch, byddwn yn sefydlu gweithgor, a bydd y grŵp hwnnw'n adrodd erbyn yr hydref. Ymddeol a dychwelyd - mae yna elfen o hyn, yn amlwg, sydd yn nwylo Llywodraeth y DU i bob pwrpas, oherwydd mae peth ohono'n ymwneud â phensiynau. Felly, unwaith eto, rwyf eisoes wedi ysgrifennu at Lywodraeth y DU, i ofyn iddynt ystyried materion mewn perthynas â phensiynau i'r rhai sy'n barod i ymddeol. Ac adfer lefelau cyflog, fel egwyddor yn unig, rwy'n credu ein bod i gyd yn cydnabod bod erydu wedi digwydd dros y blynyddoedd, ac wrth gwrs, mewn byd delfrydol, hoffem weld symud tuag at adfer lefelau cyflog.

May I first of all comment on the proposed salary increase of 1.5 per cent, because it's only that that's being considered as a pay rise, not the bonus, of course? I am convinced that it isn't enough to make up for many years of pay cuts in real terms, and it's quite right that the union members themselves will now decide whether to accept it or reject it. In terms of this issue of pay restoration, it's good to hear a commitment in principle; what I would like to hear from the Minister is a plan to tackle the fact that we have seen a decade and more of pay cuts. We've just seen the proposals in terms of the issues not related to salaries. It's very important indeed that we have more detail on what's been offered, because a failure to deal with so many of those elements is a large part of what's driven more and more people to work for agencies, of course. I just want to focus on agency working. I have a copy here of a contract between NHS Cymru and all of the agencies providing health staff in Wales. Nursing - 148 agencies have signed this agreement. Some of them are specialist, but what we have here is proof of the scale of the privatisation that has happened of the workforce within the NHS - 148 companies making profits on the back of nurses and the NHS in Wales. And the contract states clearly how much they're paid - between £30 and £48 an hour, plus VAT, for band D nursing staff. The nurses themselves are paid from £20 upwards, so that's 30 per cent and more of a cut going to the agency. So, when will we see real movement away from this kind of contract, which sucks money out of our health service in Wales? How much money, and within what timescale do you need to spend that money in order to fund the small pay increase that you've offered now? We need to ensure that the national nursing bank is something that is made a reality for the benefit of nurses, patients and the NHS, and in order to deliver higher and fair salaries in years to come.

A gaf i wneud sylw yn gyntaf am y cynnig codi'r cyflog o 1.5 y cant, achos dim ond y swm hwnnw sy'n cael ei ystyried fel codiad cyflog, nid y bonws, wrth gwrs? Dwi'n hollol glir nad ydy o'n ddigon i wneud i fyny am flynyddoedd lawer o dorri cyflog mewn termau real, ond mae'n hollol iawn mai aelodau undebau eu hunain rŵan fydd yn penderfynu pa un ai i'w dderbyn o a'i peidio. O ran y mater yma o pay restoration, mae'n dda clywed ymrwymiad mewn egwyddor; beth fyddwn i'n licio'i glywed gan y Gweinidog ydy cynllun ar gyfer mynd i'r afael â'r ffaith ein bod ni wedi gweld degawd a mwy o dorri cyflog. Newydd weld y cynlluniau ydyn ni am y materion sydd ddim yn ymwneud â chyflog. Mae'n bwysig iawn, iawn, ein bod ni'n cael rhagor o fanylion am yr hyn sy'n cael ei gynnig, achos mae methiant i ddelio efo gymaint o'r elfennau hynny yn rhan fawr o beth sydd wedi gyrru pobl i weithio mwy a mwy fel asiantaeth, wrth gwrs. Dwi jest, yn sydyn, am ganolbwyntio ar weithio asiantaeth. Mae gen i gopi yn fan hyn o'r gytundeb rhwng NHS Cymru a'r holl asiantaethau sydd yn darparu staff iechyd yng Nghymru. Nyrsio - 148 asiantaeth wedi arwyddo'r cytundeb hwn. Mae rhai ohonyn nhw'n arbenigol, ond beth sydd gennym ni yn y fan hyn ydy prawf o scale y preifateiddio sydd wedi digwydd o'r gweithlu o fewn yr NHS - 148 o gwmnïau yn gwneud elw oddi ar gefn nyrsys, oddi ar gefn yr NHS yng Nghymru. Ac mae'r cytundeb yn dweud yn glir faint maen nhw'n cael eu talu - rhwng £30 a £48 yr awr, plus VAT, am staff nyrsio band D. Mae'r nyrsys eu hunain yn cael eu talu o £20 i fyny - 30 y cant a mwy o cut yn mynd i'r asiantaeth. Pa bryd ydyn ni'n mynd i weld symudiad go iawn oddi wrth y math yma o gytundeb, sy'n sugno arian allan o'n gwasanaeth iechyd ni yng Nghymru? Faint o arian, ac o fewn pa amserlen ydych chi angen ei wario er mwyn cyllido'r codiad cyflog bach rydych chi wedi ei gynnig ar hyn o bryd? Mae angen i ni wneud yn siŵr bod y banc nyrsio cenedlaethol yn rhywbeth sydd yn digwydd go iawn er lles ein nyrsys, er lles ein cleifion o fewn yr NHS, ac er mwyn gallu delifro cyflogau uwch a theg mewn blynyddoedd i ddod.

Thanks very much. This hasn't been an easy offer to negotiate, and what we have managed to do is to get a situation where, on top of the £1,400, which was the recommendation by the independent pay review body, what we've done now is we've found an additional 3 per cent - 1.5 per cent of which will be consolidated and 1.5 per cent that will be non-consolidated. And what that actually means in practice is that, if this package is not accepted - and I think it's really important that I'm absolutely clear that this is the only deal in town - if this offer is rejected, we will be unable to make any higher pay offer for 2022-23. That is the reality or the situation. So, it's this or nothing. It's really important that people understand that that is what we're talking about here. So, just in terms of the reality of what that means, those on the bottom of band 5, which includes nurses and other healthcare professionals just starting their careers in the NHS, they will have received a total pay increase of 8.62 per cent for this financial year. And our lowest paid staff will have received a pay increase of 14.15 per cent. So, I think it's really important that people hear those figures, because that is not an unreasonable place to settle. Now, in terms of the agency, look, I think we're all committed to cutting down on the amount of money that we spend on agency workers. We've been firefighting for a very long time; I don't think anybody can deny that. We are going to have an absolute focus on this now. That's why you will see some of the detail that we want to do set out in the workforce implementation strategy that I announced last week, and that all-Wales bank will, of course, be a part of that.

Diolch yn fawr. Ni fu hwn yn gynnig hawdd i'w negodi, a'r hyn y llwyddasom i'w wneud yw cael sefyllfa lle, ar ben y £1,400, sef yr argymhelliad gan y corff adolygu cyflogau annibynnol, rydym wedi dod o hyd i 3 y cant ychwanegol nawr - 1.5 y cant ohono'n gyflog cyfunedig a 1.5 y cant yn anghyfunol. A'r hyn y mae hynny'n ei olygu'n ymarferol yw, os na chaiff y pecyn hwn ei dderbyn - ac rwy'n credu ei bod yn wirioneddol bwysig fy mod yn hollol glir mai dyma'r unig gynnig sydd ar y bwrdd - os caiff y cynnig hwn ei wrthod, ni fyddwn yn gallu gwneud unrhyw gynnig cyflog uwch ar gyfer 2022-23. Dyna'r realiti neu'r sefyllfa. Felly, hwn neu ddim byd yw hi. Mae'n bwysig iawn fod pobl yn deall mai dyna rydym yn siarad amdano fan hyn. Felly, o ran beth mae hynny'n ei olygu, bydd y rhai ar waelod band 5, sy'n cynnwys nyrsys a gweithwyr gofal iechyd proffesiynol eraill sydd newydd ddechrau ar eu gyrfaoedd yn y GIG, wedi derbyn cyfanswm codiad cyflog o 8.62 y cant ar gyfer y flwyddyn ariannol hon. A bydd ein staff ar y cyflogau isaf wedi cael codiad cyflog o 14.15 y cant. Felly, rwy'n credu ei bod hi'n bwysig iawn fod pobl yn clywed y ffigyrau hynny, oherwydd nid yw hwnnw'n lle afresymol i setlo. Nawr, o ran yr asiantaeth, edrychwch, rwy'n credu ein bod i gyd wedi ymrwymo i leihau faint o arian a wariwn ar weithwyr asiantaeth. Rydym wedi bod yn ymladd tanau fesul un ers amser hir iawn; nid wyf yn meddwl y gall unrhyw un wadu hynny. Rydym yn mynd i gadw ein ffocws yn llwyr ar hyn nawr. Dyna pam y gwelwch chi rywfaint o fanylion yr hyn rydym am ei wneud yn y strategaeth weithredu ar gyfer y gweithlu a gyhoeddais yr wythnos diwethaf, a bydd cronfa Cymru gyfan yn rhan o hynny wrth gwrs.

Thank you, Minister, for your statement and also the update on questions that you've taken this afternoon. I notice from the unions listed that Unite aren't listed there as party to the discussions, but I understand that on Sunday, you did have discussions with their national general secretary. Are you able to update us on what was involved with those discussions? Given that they're not party to this statement and the organisations contained in this statement, how do you see yourself being able to resolve the dispute with Unite, because obviously that is a continuing dispute across the health estate?

Diolch am eich datganiad, Weinidog, a hefyd y diweddariad i gwestiynau rydych chi wedi eu cymryd y prynhawn yma. Rwy'n sylwi o'r undebau sydd wedi'u rhestru nad yw Unite yn cael eu rhestru yno fel undeb sy'n rhan o'r trafodaethau, ond rwy'n deall eich bod wedi cael trafodaethau ddydd Sul gyda'u hysgrifennydd cyffredinol cenedlaethol. A allwch chi roi'r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf ynglŷn â beth oedd wedi'i gynnwys yn y trafodaethau hynny? O ystyried nad ydynt yn rhan o'r datganiad hwn a'r sefydliadau sydd wedi'u cynnwys yn y datganiad hwn, sut rydych chi'n gweld eich hun yn gallu datrys yr anghydfod gydag Unite, oherwydd yn amlwg mae hwnnw'n anghydfod sy'n parhau ar draws yr ystad iechyd?

Thanks very much. I did carry out some very informal discussions with the general secretary of Unite who happened to be in Wales on the weekend. I think it's really important that I emphasise that these were informal discussions because Unite, by not calling off their industrial action, have excluded themselves now from the negotiating table. So, everything that's been negotiated this afternoon in relation to the non-pay aspects of what we're talking about, Unite were not in the room when that was being negotiated. I think that's really important. Obviously, we are very keen to get to a situation where we see no more industrial action in relation to health in Wales, but we will work with the coalition of the willing to make sure that we can move ahead where that is practical.

Diolch yn fawr. Fe wneuthum gynnal trafodaethau anffurfiol iawn gydag ysgrifennydd cyffredinol Unite a oedd yn digwydd bod yng Nghymru ar y penwythnos. Rwy'n credu ei bod yn bwysig iawn fy mod yn pwysleisio mai trafodaethau anffurfiol oedd y rhain gan fod Unite, drwy beidio â rhoi'r gorau i'w gweithredu diwydiannol, wedi eithrio eu hunain nawr o'r bwrdd trafod. Felly, popeth sydd wedi cael ei drafod y prynhawn yma mewn perthynas â'r agweddau nad ydynt yn ymwneud â chyflog o'r hyn y soniwn amdano, nid oedd Unite yn yr ystafell pan oedd hynny'n cael ei drafod. Rwy'n credu bod hynny'n bwysig iawn. Yn amlwg, rydym yn awyddus iawn i gyrraedd sefyllfa lle nad ydym yn gweld mwy o weithredu diwydiannol mewn perthynas ag iechyd yng Nghymru, ond byddwn yn gweithio gyda'r rhai sy'n gefnogol i wneud yn siŵr y gallwn symud ymlaen lle mae hynny'n ymarferol.

Item 4 this afternoon is the 90-second statements. The first speaker is Huw Irranca-Davies.

Eitem 4 y prynhawn yma yw'r datganiadau 90 eiliad. Y siaradwr cyntaf yw Huw Irranca-Davies.

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. We all recognise the health and well-being benefits of getting out into the great outdoors, and walking is a great way to do that. But, we're not all going to head up Pen y Fan or Eryri, and nor should we have to. What if there was a way to work with people right across Wales to improve nature and access to walking in their local areas? That's a great idea, and it's well under way. Throughout 2022 and 2023, the Paths to Wellbeing project has given 18 communities across Wales the tools and training to improve nature and access to walking in their local areas. Ramblers Cymru's flagship £1.2 million project is improving access to local green spaces, working on the ground with volunteers to give the tools and the free training needed to identify and design new routes and to enhance and upgrade existing ones. They're also working alongside the 22 local authorities, Wildlife Trust Wales, Coed Cadw, the Woodland Trust in Wales, and others to enhance the local environment for nature to thrive. With activities such as tree planting, wildflower sowing and wildlife activity days, there are plenty of activities for all ages and backgrounds to get involved with. It is led by the community for the community. By investing in local volunteers to manage and undertake practical path and habitat maintenance and improvements, community engagement, paths and green spaces will be strengthened, and the health and well-being benefits of nature and outdoor physical activity realised too. So, my thanks to Ramblers Cymru, of which I'm the proud vice president, and to all partners for this groundbreaking project right here in Wales.

Diolch, Ddirprwy Lywydd. Rydym i gyd yn cydnabod y manteision i iechyd a lles o fynd allan i'r awyr agored, ac mae cerdded yn ffordd wych o wneud hynny. Ond nid ydym i gyd yn mynd i heidio i Ben y Fan neu Eryri, ac ni ddylem orfod gwneud hynny ychwaith. Beth pe bai ffordd o weithio gyda phobl ar draws Cymru i wella natur a mynediad at gerdded yn eu hardaloedd lleol? Mae hynny'n syniad gwych, ac mae wedi hen ddechrau. Drwy gydol 2022 a 2023, mae'r prosiect Llwybrau at Les wedi rhoi adnoddau a hyfforddiant i 18 o gymunedau ledled Cymru ar gyfer gwella natur a mynediad at gerdded yn eu hardaloedd lleol. Mae prosiect blaenllaw y Cerddwyr, sy'n werth £1.2 miliwn, yn gwella mynediad at fannau gwyrdd lleol, gan weithio ar lawr gwlad gyda gwirfoddolwyr i roi'r offer a'r hyfforddiant am ddim sydd ei angen i nodi a llunio llwybrau newydd, ac i wella ac uwchraddio'r rhai presennol. Maent hefyd yn gweithio ochr yn ochr â'r 22 awdurdod lleol, Ymddiriedolaeth Bywyd Gwyllt Cymru, Coed Cadw ac eraill i wella'r amgylchedd lleol i natur allu ffynnu. Gyda gweithgareddau fel plannu coed, hau blodau gwyllt a dyddiau gweithgaredd bywyd gwyllt, mae digon o weithgareddau i bobl o bob oedran a chefndir gymryd rhan ynddynt. Fe'i harweinir gan y gymuned ar gyfer y gymuned. Drwy fuddsoddi mewn gwirfoddolwyr lleol i reoli ac ymgymryd â gwaith cynnal a chadw llwybrau a gwella cynefinoedd ymarferol, ymgysylltu â'r gymuned, bydd llwybrau a mannau gwyrdd yn cael eu cryfhau, a bydd manteision iechyd a lles natur a gweithgarwch corfforol awyr agored yn cael eu gwireddu hefyd. Felly, diolch i'r Cerddwyr, mudiad rwy'n is-lywydd balch arnynt, ac i bob partner am y prosiect arloesol hwn yma yng Nghymru.

Next Monday is the hundredth anniversary of radio broadcasting from Wales. It was launched in Cardiff from a room above a music shop on Castle Street and it was the first broadcasting venture outside London. Astonishingly, people from Pontypridd, Rhymney, Newport and Gwent all managed to tune into radio 5WA's inaugural broadcast. Astonishing, because, unless you could afford the equivalent of two weeks' wages to buy a wireless, you had to rely on some polymath amateur who'd mastered adapting upside down telephone microphones to build a crystal wireless, or perhaps you could have attended a listening party, such as the one that was held in City Hall in Cardiff. The wireless orchestra, all seven of them, had a repertoire that included contemporary favourites like Ivor Novello's My Life Belongs to You and Dafydd y Garreg Wen. The latter, sung by Mostyn Thomas from Blaenau Gwent, fresh from his 1922 Eisteddfod win, was historic because it was the first time ever that the Welsh language had ever been broadcast. Now, these amateurs - they were all amateurs initially - burnt through five station managers in the first six weeks on air. The pioneer uncle Fred lasted all of two days. Uncle Arthur, on the other hand, had staying power. Arthur Corbett-Smith was very keen to ensure that the BBC for Wales and the west country was going to have a much more relaxed tone than what was broadcast from London. Though he fully subscribed to the Reithian principles of 'educate, entertain and inform,' he wanted them to take place in the same programme, not in silos. So, talks were billed as chats; London had Children's Hour, but Wales had The Hour of the 'Kiddiewinks'. If you want to learn more about this, hear the concert that's going to be broadcast on Monday, which I attended last Sunday when it was recorded. Equally, you can listen to the BBC's The Ministry of Happiness, a sitcom that's being broadcast at the moment that was launched in memory of these pioneering broadcasters.

Ddydd Llun nesaf yw canmlwyddiant darlledu radio o Gymru. Cafodd ei lansio yng Nghaerdydd o ystafell uwchben siop gerddoriaeth ar Stryd y Castell a dyma'r fenter ddarlledu gyntaf y tu allan i Lundain. Yn syfrdanol, llwyddodd pobl o Bontypridd, Rhymni, Casnewydd a Gwent i wrando ar ddarllediad agoriadol radio 5WA. Syfrdanol, oherwydd, oni bai eich bod yn gallu fforddio'r hyn sy'n cyfateb i gyflog pythefnos i brynu radio, roedd yn rhaid ichi ddibynnu ar ryw amatur galluog a oedd wedi meistroli'r gwaith o addasu meicroffonau ffôn wyneb i waered i adeiladu radio grisial, neu efallai y gallech fod wedi mynychu parti gwrando, fel yr un a gynhaliwyd yn Neuadd y Ddinas yng Nghaerdydd. Roedd repertoire y gerddorfa radio, y saith ohonynt, yn cynnwys ffefrynnau cyfoes fel My Life Belongs to You Ivor Novello a Dafydd y Garreg Wen. Roedd yr olaf, a gâi ei chanu gan Mostyn Thomas o Flaenau Gwent yn ffres o'i fuddugoliaeth yn yr Eisteddfod yn 1922, yn hanesyddol gan mai dyna'r tro cyntaf erioed i'r Gymraeg gael ei darlledu. Nawr, aeth yr amaturiaid hyn - roeddent i gyd yn amaturiaid ar y dechrau - drwy bum rheolwr gorsaf yn y chwe wythnos gyntaf ar yr awyr. Am ddau ddiwrnod yn unig y parhaodd yr 'uncle' cyntaf, uncle Fred. Roedd uncle Arthur, ar y llaw arall, yno i aros. Roedd Arthur Corbett-Smith yn awyddus iawn i sicrhau bod y BBC ar gyfer Cymru a gorllewin Lloegr yn mynd i gael naws lawer mwy hamddenol na'r hyn a gâi ei ddarlledu o Lundain. Er ei fod yn cydymffurfio'n llawn â'r egwyddorion Reithaidd, 'addysgu, diddanu a hysbysu,' roedd am iddynt ddigwydd yn yr un rhaglen, nid mewn seilos. Felly, cafodd anerchiadau eu galw'n sgyrsiau; roedd gan Lundain eu Children's Hour, ond roedd gan Gymru awr y 'Kiddiewinks'. Os ydych chi am ddysgu mwy am hyn, gwrandewch ar y cyngerdd a gaiff ei ddarlledu ddydd Llun, cyngerdd a fynychais ddydd Sul diwethaf pan gafodd ei recordio. Yn yr un modd, gallwch wrando ar The Ministry of Happiness y BBC, comedi sefyllfa sy'n cael ei darlledu ar hyn o bryd ac a gafodd ei lansio er cof am y darlledwyr arloesol hyn.

I would like to take this opportunity to raise awareness of National Apprenticeship Week, which aims to celebrate and promote apprenticeships in Wales as a valuable pathway into work and the benefits that they bring to both individuals and employers. I would particularly like to highlight the work of ColegauCymru, which co-ordinates the network of 13 further education colleges to deliver high-quality apprenticeship programmes in a wide range of vocational areas, from junior to foundation level and higher apprenticeships. Wales's colleges have strong links to industry and highly established support systems for learners, including dedicated employment and enterprise bureaux that are now in every college in Wales. The FE sector is well placed to help deliver the skills necessary for learners to embark on successful careers and produce and retain a skilled workforce to help meet current and future demand for businesses and the Welsh economy. I also want to take this opportunity to highlight two success stories from colleges in my region. Arjundeep Singh, a BTEC mechanical and electrical engineering student at Coleg y Cymoedd, has been awarded the student of the year and best work awards, as well as apprentice of the year at the Caerphilly Business Forum Awards. He is now due to start a full-time job at British Airways. Ffion Llewellyn, who is doing her A-levels at Cardiff and Vale College became their Welsh language ambassador, setting up weekly coffee mornings for the college's Welsh learners club, took a lead on the college's Learn Welsh TikTok account and has taken part in Welsh language well-being podcasts as part of Jason Mohammad's media academy. Ffion is now doing a Welsh language production apprenticeship with the BBC. The apprenticeship programme is an essential element of the FE vocational offer, supporting college-based learning and delivery of support for skills and employability within the community. It is vital that we continue to work together to raise the profile and make clear that different pathways exist to accessing apprenticeships and allow our students access to the wide variety of roles that are available to them. Thank you.

Hoffwn fanteisio ar y cyfle hwn i godi ymwybyddiaeth o Wythnos Genedlaethol Prentisiaethau, sy'n dathlu a hyrwyddo prentisiaethau yng Nghymru fel llwybr gwerthfawr i mewn i waith a'r buddion y maent yn eu cynnig i unigolion a chyflogwyr. Hoffwn dynnu sylw arbennig at waith ColegauCymru, sy'n cydlynu'r rhwydwaith o 13 coleg addysg bellach i ddarparu rhaglenni prentisiaeth o ansawdd uchel mewn ystod eang o feysydd galwedigaethol, o'r lefel iau i'r lefel sylfaen a phrentisiaethau uwch. Mae gan golegau Cymru gysylltiadau cryf â diwydiant a systemau cymorth sefydledig iawn i ddysgwyr, gan gynnwys canolfannau cyflogaeth a menter penodedig sydd bellach ym mhob coleg yng Nghymru. Mae'r sector addysg bellach mewn sefyllfa dda i helpu i ddarparu'r sgiliau angenrheidiol i ddysgwyr gychwyn ar yrfaoedd llwyddiannus a chynhyrchu a chadw gweithlu medrus i helpu i ddiwallu'r galw yn y presennol a'r dyfodol ar gyfer busnesau ac economi Cymru. Rwyf hefyd am fanteisio ar y cyfle hwn i dynnu sylw at ddwy stori lwyddiant o golegau yn fy rhanbarth i. Mae Arjundeep Singh, myfyriwr BTEC peirianneg fecanyddol a thrydanol yng Ngholeg y Cymoedd, wedi ennill gwobr myfyriwr y flwyddyn a gwobr gwaith gorau, yn ogystal â phrentis y flwyddyn yng Ngwobrau Fforwm Busnes Caerffili. Mae bellach ar fin dechrau mewn swydd amser llawn yn British Airways. Daeth Ffion Llewellyn, sy'n gwneud ei harholiadau safon uwch yng Ngholeg Caerdydd a'r Fro yn llysgennad y Gymraeg ar ran y coleg hwnnw, a sefydlodd foreau coffi wythnosol i glwb dysgwyr Cymraeg y coleg, arweiniodd gyfrif TikTok Dysgu Cymraeg y coleg a chymerodd ran mewn podlediadau llesiant yn y Gymraeg fel rhan o academi cyfryngau Jason Mohammad. Mae Ffion bellach yn gwneud prentisiaeth cynhyrchu yn y Gymraeg gyda'r BBC. Mae'r rhaglen brentisiaethau yn elfen hanfodol o gynnig galwedigaethol addysg bellach sy'n cefnogi dysgu mewn colegau a darparu cymorth ar gyfer sgiliau a chyflogadwyedd yn y gymuned. Mae'n hanfodol ein bod yn parhau i weithio gyda'n gilydd i godi'r proffil ac egluro bod gwahanol lwybrau yn bodoli i gael mynediad at brentisiaethau a chaniatáu i'n myfyrwyr gael mynediad at yr amrywiaeth eang o rolau sydd ar gael iddynt. Diolch.

Thank you to the three contributors.

Diolch i bob un o'r tri.

Item 5 this afternoon is a debate on the Children, Young People, and Education Committee's report, 'Pupil absence'. I call on the Chair of the committee to move the motion - Jayne Bryant.

Eitem 5 y prynhawn yma yw'r ddadl ar adroddiad y Pwyllgor Plant, Pobl Ifanc ac Addysg, 'Absenoldebau disgyblion'. Galwaf ar Gadeirydd y pwyllgor i wneud y cynnig - Jayne Bryant.

Diolch, Deputy Llywydd. I'm very pleased to open this debate on the Children, Young People, and Education Committee's report on pupil absence. We undertook a short, focused inquiry last summer to try to understand the impact of the pandemic on school attendance. We knew that, prior to the pandemic, there had been a strong focus, both at school and national levels, to tackle school absence. We wanted to build on the Welsh Government-commissioned report on school absence, done by Meilyr Rowlands. Our findings very much chimed with the findings of his report, and we hope they're very helpful to Welsh Government. I'd like to thank my fellow committee members for their diligence in undertaking this work, as well as those who gave oral and written evidence. In particular, I'd like to thank those families and young people who came to our focus groups to discuss their experiences. Our strategic plan places a huge emphasis on the importance of hearing directly from children and young people, and we remain committed to hearing and placing these voices at the forefront. Please be assured your voices really helped to shape our work. I'd also like to thank the Minister for his positive engagement with our work on this issue.

Diolch, Ddirprwy Lywydd. Rwy'n falch iawn o agor y ddadl hon ar adroddiad y Pwyllgor Plant, Pobl Ifanc, ac Addysg ar absenoldeb disgyblion. Fe wnaethom gynnal ymchwiliad arbennig byr yr haf diwethaf i geisio deall effaith y pandemig ar bresenoldeb yn yr ysgol. Roeddem yn gwybod, cyn y pandemig, fod ffocws cryf wedi bod, yn yr ysgol ac ar lefelau cenedlaethol, i fynd i'r afael ag absenoldeb o'r ysgol. Roeddem eisiau adeiladu ar adroddiad gan Meilyr Rowlands ar absenoldeb o'r ysgol a gomisiynwyd gan Lywodraeth Cymru. Roedd ein canfyddiadau'n cyd-fynd yn helaeth â chanfyddiadau ei adroddiad ef, ac rydym yn gobeithio eu bod o gymorth mawr i Lywodraeth Cymru. Hoffwn ddiolch i fy nghyd-aelodau o'r pwyllgor am eu diwydrwydd wrth ymgymryd â'r gwaith hwn, yn ogystal â'r rhai a roddodd dystiolaeth lafar ac ysgrifenedig. Yn fwyaf arbennig, hoffwn ddiolch i'r teuluoedd a'r bobl ifanc a ddaeth i'n grwpiau ffocws i drafod eu profiadau. Mae ein cynllun strategol yn rhoi pwyslais enfawr ar bwysigrwydd clywed yn uniongyrchol gan blant a phobl ifanc, ac rydym yn parhau i fod yn ymrwymedig i glywed a gosod y lleisiau hyn ar y blaen. Gallaf eich sicrhau bod eich lleisiau wedi bod yn help mawr wrth lunio ein gwaith. Hoffwn ddiolch hefyd i'r Gweinidog am ei gyfraniad cadarnhaol i'n gwaith ar y mater hwn.

We made seven recommendations in total, all of which were accepted or accepted in principle. We know the Welsh Government are currently reviewing their attendance guidance, and we're glad to see the Minister commit to this review, encompassing the exclusions and behaviour guidance, as these issues are so closely linked. We also welcome the commitment that the revised guidance will be child-centric and underpinned by trauma-informed practice and evidence of what actually works. We heard very clear evidence that everybody has a role to play in promoting and supporting sustained attendance. Therefore, it is good to hear from the Minister that this guidance will set out the roles that all partners can play, going beyond just the school staff, but also encompassing local authorities, governors and, of course, parents and carers. During the pandemic, the type of attendance data that was collected and published changed, which makes it difficult to compare the data on attendance available pre pandemic and the data that's available now. But the broad trends indicate that attendance has decreased since the pandemic-related school closures. When we published the report, the average attendance for the current academic year was 91.4 per cent. As of the most recent Welsh Government data, published this morning, the average attendance for this academic year had declined to 89.3 per cent. The data also shows that the attendance rate is lower for those learners who are eligible for free school meals than those learners who are not. We heard anecdotal evidence that the cost-of-living crisis was creating an additional barrier to children and young people attending school. While this was anecdotal, it builds on long-standing concerns about the impact of the cost of the school day and the barriers it can create. It was also anecdotal evidence that all stakeholders seemed to agree with. And we're very clear that no child should be missing out on school because their family cannot afford for them to attend. This is baking in already existing disadvantages, and fundamentally unfair. We therefore made recommendation 2, which called for an urgent study into how the current cost-of-living crisis is impacting on school attendance. We were concerned that, because this evidence is currently anecdotal, it's making it more difficult to create effective solutions and policy interventions. We called for this to be done within two months of the Welsh Government's response to the report, and for it to be supported by an action plan. In responding to this recommendation, the Welsh Government said it was challenging to meet the timescale outlined. They said that they are in informal discussions with a local authority about a research proposal, which would take an in-depth look at attendance in secondary schools, with a focus on which approaches and interventions have the most impact on lower-income families. Now, while this sounds like a promising piece of work, it does not meet the ambition of our recommendation. We set a really challenging timescale for this recommendation because we felt the urgent need to understand how the current crisis is affecting school attendance right now and to identify what actions can be taken quickly to address that issue. We're concerned that, if children and young people start missing school because they can't afford to attend, this will make it more difficult to re-engage them in schooling the longer they are absent. We also note that this research proposal would only be looking at secondary school attendance. It's also unclear if this proposal would look at the picture across Wales. Perhaps the Minister can outline what work he plans to do to look at the evidence in primary settings. And, Minister, can you also confirm if the research proposal would cover all of Wales, and perhaps, if you're unable to support the research proposal cited in the Welsh Government's response, what work could take its place? Closely linked to the cost-of-living issues was recommendation 3, on learner travel. Both from our work on this committee but also as individual Members - which we did debate yesterday as well in the budget debate - we're acutely aware of the barriers that some children and young people face in accessing appropriate and affordable travel to school. We called for a pupil-first approach to learner travel decisions, where the needs of the individual pupil are the most important factor, and not cost. We acknowledge that this is a big ask of local authorities in difficult financial times, so we called on the Welsh Government to ensure local authorities have sufficient funding to deliver on this approach. We also called for the current review to be radical in looking for innovative solutions to this long-standing issue. Children's attendance at school should not be hindered because they do not have affordable or safe transport options. In responding, the Minister outlines the current review and the forthcoming changes to bus service delivery. However, we are concerned that, as with the previous recommendation, this does not reflect the urgent need to tackle this issue in the here and now. So, when will the review of the Learner Travel Measure (Wales) 2008 be completed, and when can we expect to see the actions from the review being implemented? Finally, I'd like to seek some more clarity from the Minister on the response to recommendation 1, which called for a national campaign focusing on the positive impacts of regular school attendance. We believe that this should be delivered in conjunction with more tailored local campaigns at local authority and school level, which would complement a national campaign. In responding to this recommendation, the Minister said that Welsh Government will be increasing communications to emphasise the importance of going to school. Please can he provide us with more detail on what format these communications will take, and will it be the national campaign that the committee wants to see? So, in closing, Deputy Llywydd, I would like to thank all those who contributed to our inquiry once again, including those who provided written and oral evidence, my fellow committee members, and the Minister and his officials for engaging positively with our work. I look forward to hearing what colleagues and the Minister have to say. Diolch.

Fe wnaethom saith argymhelliad i gyd, a chafodd pob un ohonynt eu derbyn neu eu derbyn mewn egwyddor. Rydym yn gwybod bod Llywodraeth Cymru wrthi'n adolygu eu canllawiau presenoldeb ar hyn o bryd, ac rydym yn falch o weld y Gweinidog yn ymrwymo i'r adolygiad hwn, sy'n cwmpasu'r canllawiau ar waharddiadau ac ymddygiad, gan fod cysylltiad agos rhwng y materion hyn. Rydym hefyd yn croesawu'r ymrwymiad y bydd y canllawiau diwygiedig yn canolbwyntio ar y plentyn ac yn seiliedig ar ymarfer sy'n ystyriol o drawma a thystiolaeth o'r hyn sy'n gweithio mewn gwirionedd. Clywsom dystiolaeth glir iawn fod gan bawb ran i'w chwarae yn y gwaith o hyrwyddo a chefnogi presenoldeb cyson. Felly, mae'n dda clywed gan y Gweinidog y bydd y canllawiau hyn yn nodi'r rolau y gall pob partner eu chwarae, gan fynd y tu hwnt i staff yr ysgol yn unig, a chwmpasu awdurdodau lleol, llywodraethwyr, a rhieni a gofalwyr wrth gwrs. Yn ystod y pandemig, newidiodd y math o ddata presenoldeb a gafodd ei gasglu a'i gyhoeddi, sy'n ei gwneud hi'n anodd cymharu'r data ar bresenoldeb sydd ar gael cyn y pandemig a'r data sydd ar gael nawr. Ond mae'r tueddiadau cyffredinol yn dangos bod lefelau presenoldeb wedi gostwng ers i'r ysgolion gau yn sgil y pandemig. Pan gyhoeddwyd yr adroddiad, presenoldeb cyfartalog y flwyddyn academaidd gyfredol oedd 91.4 y cant. O ddata diweddaraf Llywodraeth Cymru, a gyhoeddwyd y bore yma, roedd presenoldeb cyfartalog y flwyddyn academaidd hon wedi gostwng i 89.3 y cant. Mae'r data hefyd yn dangos bod y gyfradd presenoldeb yn is ymhlith dysgwyr sy'n gymwys i gael prydau ysgol am ddim nag ymhlith dysgwyr nad ydynt yn gymwys. Clywsom dystiolaeth anecdotaidd fod yr argyfwng costau byw yn creu rhwystr ychwanegol i blant a phobl ifanc sy'n mynychu'r ysgol. Er bod hyn yn anecdotaidd, mae'n adeiladu ar bryderon hirsefydlog am effaith cost y diwrnod ysgol a'r rhwystrau y gall eu creu. Roedd hefyd yn dystiolaeth anecdotaidd yr oedd yr holl randdeiliaid i'w gweld yn cytuno â hi. Ac rydym yn glir iawn na ddylai'r un plentyn golli ysgol am nad yw eu teulu'n gallu fforddio iddynt fod yn bresennol. Mae hyn yn cynnwys anfanteision sydd eisoes yn bodoli, ac sy'n sylfaenol annheg. Felly, fe wnaethom argymhelliad 2 a alwai am astudiaeth frys i weld sut mae'r argyfwng costau byw presennol yn effeithio ar bresenoldeb yn yr ysgol. Oherwydd bod y dystiolaeth hon yn anecdotaidd ar hyn o bryd, roeddem yn pryderu ei bod yn ei gwneud hi'n anos creu atebion ac ymyriadau polisi effeithiol. Fe wnaethom alw am wneud hyn o fewn dau fis i ymateb Llywodraeth Cymru i'r adroddiad, ac iddo gael ei gefnogi gan gynllun gweithredu. Wrth ymateb i'r argymhelliad hwn, dywedodd Llywodraeth Cymru fod yr amserlen a nodwyd yn heriol. Dywedasant eu bod mewn trafodaethau anffurfiol gydag awdurdod lleol ynglŷn â chynnig ymchwil a fyddai'n edrych yn fanwl ar bresenoldeb mewn ysgolion uwchradd, gan ganolbwyntio ar ba ddulliau ac ymyriadau sy'n cael yr effaith fwyaf ar deuluoedd incwm is. Nawr, er bod hwn yn swnio fel gwaith addawol, nid yw'n cyrraedd uchelgais ein hargymhelliad. Fe wnaethom osod amserlen heriol iawn ar gyfer yr argymhelliad oherwydd ein bod yn teimlo angen i ddeall ar frys sut mae'r argyfwng presennol yn effeithio ar bresenoldeb yn yr ysgol ar hyn o bryd ac i nodi pa gamau y gellir eu cymryd yn gyflym i fynd i'r afael â'r broblem. Os yw plant a phobl ifanc yn dechrau colli ysgol am nad ydynt yn gallu fforddio mynychu, rydym yn poeni y bydd hyn yn ei gwneud hi'n anos ail-ennyn eu diddordeb mewn addysg po hiraf y byddant yn absennol. Nodwn hefyd mai edrych ar bresenoldeb yn yr ysgol uwchradd yn unig y byddai'r cynnig ymchwil hwn yn ei wneud. Nid yw'n glir ychwaith a fyddai'r cynnig yn edrych ar y darlun ar draws Cymru. Efallai y gall y Gweinidog amlinellu pa waith y mae'n bwriadu ei wneud i edrych ar y dystiolaeth mewn lleoliadau cynradd. A Weinidog, a allwch chi hefyd gadarnhau y byddai'r cynnig ymchwil yn cwmpasu Cymru gyfan, ac os nad ydych yn gallu cefnogi'r cynnig ymchwil a nodir yn ymateb Llywodraeth Cymru, pa waith a allai gymryd ei le? Roedd cysylltiad agos rhwng y materion costau byw ag argymhelliad 3, ar deithio gan ddysgwyr. O'n gwaith ar y pwyllgor hwn ond hefyd fel Aelodau unigol - rhywbeth y gwnaethom ei drafod ddoe hefyd yn y ddadl ar y gyllideb - rydym yn ymwybodol iawn o'r rhwystrau y mae rhai plant a phobl ifanc yn eu hwynebu i gael mynediad at gludiant priodol a fforddiadwy i'r ysgol. Fe wnaethom alw am ddull o wneud penderfyniadau teithio sy'n rhoi'r disgybl yn gyntaf, gydag anghenion y disgybl unigol yn hytrach na chost yn ffactor bwysicaf. Rydym yn cydnabod bod hyn yn gofyn llawer gan awdurdodau lleol mewn cyfnod anodd yn ariannol, felly galwasom ar Lywodraeth Cymru i sicrhau bod gan awdurdodau lleol ddigon o gyllid i allu cyflawni. Fe alwasom hefyd am sicrhau bod yr adolygiad presennol yn radical wrth chwilio am atebion arloesol i'r broblem hirsefydlog hon. Ni ddylai presenoldeb plant yn yr ysgol gael ei rwystro am nad oes ganddynt opsiynau cludiant fforddiadwy neu ddiogel. Wrth ymateb, mae'r Gweinidog yn amlinellu'r adolygiad presennol a'r newidiadau sydd i ddod i'r ddarpariaeth o wasanaethau bws. Fodd bynnag, rydym yn pryderu, fel gyda'r argymhelliad blaenorol, nad yw hyn yn adlewyrchu'r angen brys i fynd i'r afael â'r mater hwn nawr. Felly, pryd fydd yr adolygiad o'r Mesur Teithio gan Ddysgwyr (Cymru) 2008 wedi ei gwblhau, a phryd y gallwn ddisgwyl gweld camau gweithredu'r adolygiad yn cael eu gweithredu? Yn olaf, hoffwn ofyn am fwy o eglurder gan y Gweinidog ar yr ymateb i argymhelliad 1 a alwai am ymgyrch genedlaethol yn canolbwyntio ar effeithiau cadarnhaol presenoldeb rheolaidd yn yr ysgol. Credwn y dylid cyflwyno hyn ar y cyd ag ymgyrchoedd lleol wedi'u haddasu'n well ar lefel awdurdod lleol ac ysgol, a fyddai'n ategu ymgyrch genedlaethol. Wrth ymateb i'r argymhelliad hwn, dywedodd y Gweinidog y bydd Llywodraeth Cymru'n cynyddu cyfathrebiadau er mwyn pwysleisio pwysigrwydd mynd i'r ysgol. A all roi mwy o fanylion i ni ynglŷn â fformat y cyfathrebiadau hyn, ac ai dyma'r ymgyrch genedlaethol y mae'r pwyllgor am ei gweld? Felly, wrth gloi, Ddirprwy Lywydd, hoffwn ddiolch i bawb a gyfrannodd at ein hymchwiliad unwaith eto, gan gynnwys y rhai a roddodd dystiolaeth ysgrifenedig a llafar, i fy nghyd-aelodau o'r pwyllgor, a'r Gweinidog a'i swyddogion am ymwneud yn gadarnhaol â'n gwaith. Rwy'n edrych ymlaen at glywed beth sydd gan gyd-Aelodau a'r Gweinidog i'w ddweud. Diolch.

I'd like to start off by giving thanks to our excellent Chair, Jayne Bryant, and also my fellow committee members, of course, and the clerks, staff and people who gave evidence and who made this vital report a reality - and, of course, the Minister for his co-operation as well. It is critical that we address soaring pupil absence, the problem having been exacerbated, as we've already heard, by the pandemic and the cost-of-living crisis. The report, I believe, is a thorough one and I'd like to focus on just a few key issues from it today. We have seen that additional learning needs pupils often do not get the right, timely support, which results in persistent school absence. The National Autistic Society Cymru found that 43 per cent of autistic students were persistently absent, which is a worrying statistic. We also see that students in poverty, as has already been said, make up a high proportion of those absent from school, and this was very, very clear throughout the report. The annual child and family poverty survey 2021 found that 94 per cent of practitioners in Wales said that poverty had an impact on a child's school experience, which of course has now been exacerbated by the cost-of-living crisis and the pandemic. Current trends are a cause for alarm, and we need to ensure that we make it as easy as possible for students to attend school, and that we are as supportive as possible to individual learners for their individual needs, to ensure that they don't miss out on the education that they all deserve. It's clear from the recommendations that we need a multi-pronged approach to ensure that we stop this worrying trend. Recommendation 3 of the report says that Welsh Government should ensure that local authorities have sufficient funding, as our Chair has already outlined, to ensure that children and young people have that access to appropriate school transport options to get them to school safely. This is absolutely vital, particularly when local authority budgets are so tight in the current climate. However, the Welsh Government's approach is only to accept this in principle, and bundle it in with the 'One Network, One Timetable, One Ticket' White Paper, which in my view diminishes the importance of this issue and only delays real action being taken. As I said in committee - and I see these issues in my own region, as we all do, far too regularly - we need this pupil-first approach that has been put forward by the committee. It needs wholesale reform, and not just tweaks. But we must remember that there are children now who need help with school transport, and we cannot wait for the White Paper to turn into implementation years down the line. We need to see immediate action in expanding the offer of school transport, whilst reducing the cost for parents, as, for now, many can't afford school transport, and they can't afford to drive their children to school either. This creates a situation of despair for parents, and of course affects the learners and affects the level of absence that we are seeing. I completely agree with Jayne Bryant that this should not be a barrier to learning in this day and age. Recommendation 4 looks to address the students who are most likely to absent, and why. As we know from the report, it can vary from ALN needs to mental health issues, and mental health issues that are not being addressed adequately and supporting learners to be able to stay in school. Whilst I'm pleased that the Welsh Government has accepted this recommendation, and that they'll consider absence and exclusion data to inform the support of the well-being of learners, it is essential that, where the support is needed, it's urgently delivered on the ground to where it is needed. The data is meaningless without the proper support following it, and I'm disappointed that Welsh Government have committed to this without accepting the recommendation. We also need to know how the Welsh Government will monitor the delivery and its success or failure. I'd also like the Minister to address how the Welsh Government will ensure that this generation of students are able to access school transport, not just focus on the next generation, and explain how he's ensuring that home-schoolers aren't being conflated and bundled in with school absence, as it's crucial we ensure this medium of education is kept open and untarnished. But it is important that Welsh Government - . We do need to understand why there has been such a significant rise in home schooling since the pandemic began. The report before us highlights the urgency in addressing this, as our Chair has outlined, so I'd like to hear from the Minister how he is working now with local authorities and school leaders to ensure that we reverse this worrying trend of pupil absence. Yes, it's come down slightly, but the figures are still far too high. Thank you.

Hoffwn ddechrau drwy ddiolch i'n Cadeirydd rhagorol, Jayne Bryant, a hefyd i fy nghyd-aelodau o'r pwyllgor, wrth gwrs, a'r clercod, y staff a'r bobl a roddodd dystiolaeth ac a wnaeth yr adroddiad hanfodol hwn yn realiti - ac wrth gwrs, i'r Gweinidog am ei gydweithrediad hefyd. Mae'n hanfodol ein bod yn mynd i'r afael â lefelau absenoldeb disgyblion sy'n codi'n aruthrol, problem sydd wedi'i gwaethygu, fel y clywsom eisoes, gan y pandemig a'r argyfwng costau byw. Credaf fod yr adroddiad yn un trylwyr a hoffwn ganolbwyntio ar ambell fater allweddol sy'n codi ohono heddiw. Rydym wedi gweld bod disgyblion anghenion dysgu ychwanegol yn cael eu hamddifadu o gefnogaeth briodol ac amserol, ac mae hynny'n arwain at absenoldeb cyson o'r ysgol. Canfu Cymdeithas Genedlaethol Awtistiaeth Cymru fod 43 y cant o fyfyrwyr awtistig yn absennol yn gyson, ystadegyn sy'n peri pryder. Gwelwn hefyd mai myfyrwyr sy'n byw mewn tlodi, fel y dywedwyd eisoes, yw cyfran uchel o'r rhai sy'n absennol o'r ysgol, ac roedd hyn yn glir iawn yn yr adroddiad drwyddo draw. Canfu arolwg blynyddol tlodi plant a theuluoedd 2021 fod 94 y cant o addysgwyr yng Nghymru yn dweud bod tlodi wedi cael effaith ar brofiad ysgol plentyn, sydd wrth gwrs wedi ei waethygu bellach gan yr argyfwng costau byw a'r pandemig. Mae'r tueddiadau presennol yn achos braw, ac mae angen inni sicrhau ein bod yn ei gwneud mor hawdd â phosibl i fyfyrwyr fynychu'r ysgol, a'n bod mor gefnogol â phosibl i ddysgwyr unigol gyda'u hanghenion unigol, er mwyn sicrhau nad ydynt yn colli'r addysg y maent oll yn ei haeddu. Mae'n amlwg o'r argymhellion fod angen dull amlweddog arnom i sicrhau ein bod yn atal y duedd bryderus hon. Mae argymhelliad 3 yr adroddiad yn dweud y dylai Llywodraeth Cymru sicrhau bod cyllid digonol gan awdurdodau lleol, fel yr amlinellodd ein Cadeirydd eisoes, i sicrhau bod gan blant a phobl ifanc fynediad at opsiynau cludiant ysgol priodol ar gyfer eu cludo i'r ysgol yn ddiogel. Mae hyn yn gwbl hanfodol, yn enwedig pan fo cyllidebau awdurdodau lleol mor dynn yn yr hinsawdd bresennol. Fodd bynnag, dull Llywodraeth Cymru yw derbyn hyn mewn egwyddor yn unig, a'i gynnwys gyda'r Papur Gwyn 'Un Rhwydwaith, Un Amserlen, Un Tocyn', sydd yn fy marn i yn lleihau pwysigrwydd y mater hwn ac yn creu oedi cyn y ceir gweithredu go iawn. Fel y dywedais yn y pwyllgor - ac rwy'n gweld y pethau hyn yn fy rhanbarth fy hun yn llawer rhy reolaidd, fel pawb ohonom - mae angen y dull disgybl yn gyntaf a gyflwynwyd gan y pwyllgor. Mae angen ei ddiwygio'n gyfan gwbl, ac nid gwneud addasiadau bach yn unig. Ond mae'n rhaid cofio bod yna blant nawr sydd angen help gyda chludiant i'r ysgol, ac ni allwn aros i'r Papur Gwyn droi'n weithredu ymhen blynyddoedd i ddod. Mae angen inni weld gweithredu ar unwaith i ehangu'r cynnig cludiant i'r ysgol, gan leihau'r gost i rieni, oherwydd, am y tro, mae nifer yn methu fforddio cludiant i'r ysgol, ac ni allant fforddio gyrru eu plant i'r ysgol chwaith. Mae hyn yn creu sefyllfa ofidus i rieni, ac wrth gwrs mae'n effeithio ar y dysgwyr ac yn effeithio ar lefel yr absenoldeb a welwn. Rwy'n cytuno'n llwyr â Jayne Bryant na ddylai hyn fod yn rhwystr i ddysgu yn yr oes sydd ohoni. Mae argymhelliad 4 yn mynd i'r afael â'r myfyrwyr sy'n fwyaf tebygol o fod yn absennol, a pham. Fel y gwyddom o'r adroddiad, gall amrywio o anghenion ADY i broblemau iechyd meddwl, a materion iechyd meddwl nad ydynt yn cael sylw digonol a chefnogi dysgwyr i allu aros yn yr ysgol. Er fy mod yn falch fod Llywodraeth Cymru wedi derbyn yr argymhelliad hwn, ac y byddant yn ystyried data absenoldeb a gwahardd i lywio cefnogaeth i lesiant dysgwyr, mae'n hanfodol, lle bo angen cymorth, ei fod yn cael ei gyflwyno ar frys ar lawr gwlad lle mae ei angen. Mae'r data'n ddiystyr heb y gefnogaeth briodol i'w ddilyn, ac rwy'n siomedig fod Llywodraeth Cymru wedi ymrwymo i hyn heb dderbyn yr argymhelliad. Mae angen inni wybod hefyd sut bydd Llywodraeth Cymru yn monitro'r ddarpariaeth a'i llwyddiant neu ei methiant. Hoffwn hefyd i'r Gweinidog fynd i'r afael â sut y bydd Llywodraeth Cymru yn sicrhau bod y genhedlaeth hon o fyfyrwyr yn gallu cael mynediad at gludiant i'r ysgol, nid dim ond canolbwyntio ar y genhedlaeth nesaf, ac egluro sut mae'n sicrhau nad yw rhai sy'n derbyn addysg yn y cartref yn cael eu cynnwys yn y ffigurau absenoldeb ysgol, gan ei bod yn hanfodol inni sicrhau bod y cyfrwng addysg hwnnw'n cael ei gadw'n agored a heb ei ddifwyno. Ond mae'n bwysig fod Llywodraeth Cymru - . Mae angen inni ddeall pam y gwelwyd cynnydd mor sylweddol yn nifer y rhai sy'n derbyn addysg yn y cartref ers dechrau'r pandemig. Mae'r adroddiad sydd ger ein bron yn tynnu sylw at y brys i fynd i'r afael â hyn, fel y nododd ein Cadeirydd, felly hoffwn glywed gan y Gweinidog sut mae'n gweithio nawr gydag awdurdodau lleol ac arweinwyr ysgolion i sicrhau ein bod yn gwrthdroi'r duedd bryderus hon yn lefelau absenoldeb disgyblion. Ydy, mae wedi gostwng ychydig, ond mae'r ffigurau'n dal i fod yn llawer rhy uchel. Diolch.

I too would like to thank the Chair of the committee and my fellow Members, the clerks and everyone who contributed, as well as the Minister. This was a very important inquiry. As has already been outlined, we are all aware of the importance of attendance in terms of pupils' development at school, not just in terms of their academic attainment, but their social, cognitive and emotional development. But the fact is, across Wales, too many learners are missing out on important opportunities due to absence, and what we as a committee were eager to understand better was why this was the case. As mentioned previously, this was a problem before COVID, but certainly the situation has deteriorated since then. And if the situation doesn't improve soon, then a number of learners will have missed out on a whole host of opportunities, which will then have an impact on them for decades to come. That is why this report is so vitally important. I welcome specifically the Government's response to the second recommendation, and the agreement to commission research to understand better the impact of the cost-of-living crisis on pupils' ability to attend school. Certainly the children's commissioner was clear about the link between absence and poverty, and with child poverty increasing here in Wales, we must gain a better understanding of why this is happening and what we can do to ensure the very best start for every learner who attends school. One matter raised with us as a committee, which has been raised already today - and it's been raised with me a number of times as a regional Member for South Wales Central - is the barriers related to transport costs, and that is the thrust of the committee's third recommendation. I am pleased to see that the Minister has accepted this recommendation in principle, but again, it is a cause for concern for me that it is taking so long to resolve this issue. I have raised several times with the Minister and the Deputy Minister for Climate Change a case in my constituency at Llanishen High School, which has been raised by Ruben Kelman, Member of the Welsh Youth Parliament. There is clear evidence from the school that the cost of bus travel is preventing some pupils from attending the school regularly. Despite this, the situation remains unresolved. How many more young people are affected like this? And why haven't councils such as Cardiff Council responded immediately to provide a solution to these situations, when we receive evidence that children can't afford to attend school?

Hoffwn innau ddiolch i Gadeirydd y pwyllgor a fy nghyd-Aelodau, y clercod a phawb a gyfrannodd, ynghyd â'r Gweinidog. Mi oedd hwn ymchwiliad pwysig tu hwnt. Fel sydd eisoes wedi ei amlinellu, rydyn ni i gyd yn gwybod pwysigrwydd presenoldeb o ran datblygiad dysgwyr mewn ysgolion, nid yn unig o ran eu cyrhaeddiad academaidd, ond hefyd eu datblygiad cymdeithasol, meddyliol ac emosiynol. Ond y ffaith amdani ydy, ledled Cymru, mae gormod o ddysgwyr yn colli cyfleoedd pwysig oherwydd absenoldeb, a'r hyn roeddem ni fel pwyllgor eisiau deall yn well oedd pam. Fel soniwyd eisoes, roedd hon yn broblem cyn COVID, ond yn sicr mae'r sefyllfa wedi gwaethygu ers hynny. Ac os na fydd gwella ar y sefyllfa hon yn fuan, yna bydd nifer o ddysgwyr yn colli allan ar lu o gyfleoedd a fydd wedyn yn effeithio arnynt am ddegawdau i ddod. Dyna pam bod yr adroddiad hwn mor allweddol bwysig. Dwi'n croesawu'n benodol ymateb y Llywodraeth i'r ail argymhelliad, a'r cytundeb i gomisiynu ymchwil i ddeall yn well effaith yr argyfwng costau byw ar allu disgyblion i fynychu'r ysgol. Yn sicr, roedd y comisiynydd plant yn bendant o ran y cysylltiad rhwng absenoldeb a thlodi, a gyda tlodi plant yn cynyddu yma yng Nghymru, mae'n rhaid i ni ddeall yn well pam bod hyn yn digwydd a beth y gallwn ni ei wneud i sicrhau'r dechrau gorau posibl i bob dysgwr sy'n mynychu ysgol. Un mater a godwyd gyda ni fel pwyllgor, a sydd eisoes wedi ei godi - ac mae wedi'i godi efo fi fel Aelod rhanbarthol dros Ganol De Cymru - yw'r rhwystrau sy'n gysylltiedig â chost trafnidiaeth, a dyna fyrdwn trydydd argymhelliad y pwyllgor. Dwi'n falch o weld y Gweinidog yn derbyn yr argymhelliad hwn mewn egwyddor, ond eto, mae o'n fy mhryderu i fod hyn yn cymryd gymaint o amser i'w ddatrys. Rwyf wedi codi nifer o weithiau erbyn hyn gyda'r Gweinidog a'r Dirprwy Weinidog dros Newid Hinsawdd achos yn fy rhanbarth yn Ysgol Uwchradd Llanishen, sydd wedi ei godi gan Ruben Kelman, Aelod o Senedd Ieuenctid Cymru. Mae'r dystiolaeth yn glir gan yr ysgol fod cost bws yn atal rhai dysgwyr rhag mynychu'r ysgol yn rheolaidd. Serch hynny, erys y sefyllfa hon heb ddatrysiad. Faint mwy o bobl ifanc sy'n cael eu heffeithio fel hyn? A pham nad yw cynghorau megis Cyngor Caerdydd ac eraill yn ymateb yn syth i ddatrys sefyllfaoedd o'r fath, pan rydym yn derbyn tystiolaeth bod plant yn methu fforddio mynd i'r ysgol?

I'd also like to focus on one other key area that came to light during our inquiry, and that was staffing capacity, or rather lack of, and how it is one of the biggest barriers to tackling pupil absence. As we heard, it is a problem that was made worse because of COVID-19 related staff absences, and difficulties in securing supply staff to cover, but there are other challenges too, linked to the draft budget, which we discussed yesterday. We've already been warned by teaching unions that school budgets are going to be under strain, with heads warning that they will have to look at cutting back on teachers and teaching assistants, as well as additional support for pupils and their families. However, our report concludes that there are already significant concerns about staffing capacity and resilience to support pupil attendance. Some of this was specifically in reference to supporting blended and flexible learning as well. Ultimately, there are specific groups of children and young people who face additional barriers to attending school, many of which they do not have control over. Blended learning, an innovation developed during the pandemic, may provide an effective option to help these groups of learners maintain attendance. A return to normal simply isn't going to work in this situation, and being able to use these innovative practices may help support those learners. Finally, I welcome the Minister's acceptance of the need to improve data collection as well as the publication and analysis of pupil absence data. The need for disaggregated data is crucial in identifying trends of absence for particular groups of learners. We need to send a clear message to all that, for pupils who attend school, attendance isn't optional, and if there are barriers that are affecting attendance, especially costs, then we need to urgently act. Education is a right and no child or young person should be losing even a day of school because their families can't afford for them to attend. I very much look forward to seeing the recommendations being implemented, and once again ask all who can help turn these into reality to urgently put them into action. Every day lost in school by a learner is a day that widens the attainment gap. We need to act now.

Hoffwn hefyd ganolbwyntio ar un maes allweddol arall a ddaeth i'r amlwg yn ystod ein hymchwiliad, sef capasiti staffio, neu'n hytrach diffyg capasiti staffio, a sut mae'n un o'r rhwystrau mwyaf i fynd i'r afael ag absenoldeb disgyblion. Fel y clywsom, mae'n broblem a gafodd ei gwaethygu oherwydd absenoldebau staff yn sgil COVID-19, ac anawsterau i sicrhau staff cyflenwi, ond mae heriau eraill hefyd, yn gysylltiedig â'r gyllideb ddrafft, a drafodwyd gennym ddoe. Rydym eisoes wedi cael rhybudd gan undebau athrawon y bydd cyllidebau ysgolion dan straen, gyda phenaethiaid yn rhybuddio y bydd yn rhaid iddynt ystyried torri'n ôl ar athrawon a chynorthwywyr addysgu, yn ogystal â chymorth ychwanegol i ddisgyblion a'u teuluoedd. Fodd bynnag, daw ein hadroddiad i'r casgliad fod yna bryderon sylweddol eisoes ynghylch capasiti staffio a gwytnwch i gefnogi presenoldeb disgyblion. Roedd rhywfaint o hyn yn cyfeirio'n benodol at gefnogi dysgu cyfunol a hyblyg hefyd. Yn y pen draw, ceir grwpiau penodol o blant a phobl ifanc sy'n wynebu rhwystrau ychwanegol sy'n eu hatal rhag mynychu'r ysgol, nifer ohonynt nad oes ganddynt reolaeth drostynt. Gall dysgu cyfunol, newid a ddatblygwyd yn ystod y pandemig, gynnig opsiwn effeithiol i helpu'r grwpiau hyn o ddysgwyr i gynnal presenoldeb. Ni fydd dychwelyd i normal yn gweithio yn y sefyllfa hon, ac mae'n bosibl y bydd y gallu i ddefnyddio'r arferion newydd hyn yn helpu i gefnogi'r dysgwyr hynny. Yn olaf, rwy'n croesawu'r ffaith bod y Gweinidog yn derbyn yr angen i wella'r gwaith o gasglu data yn ogystal â chyhoeddi a dadansoddi data ar absenoldeb disgyblion. Mae'r angen am ddata wedi'i ddadgyfuno yn hanfodol er mwyn nodi tueddiadau absenoldeb ar gyfer grwpiau penodol o ddysgwyr. Mae angen inni anfon neges glir at bawb nad yw presenoldeb yn opsiynol i ddisgyblion sy'n mynychu'r ysgol, ac os oes rhwystrau sy'n effeithio ar bresenoldeb, yn enwedig costau, mae angen inni weithredu ar frys. Mae addysg yn hawl ac ni ddylai unrhyw blentyn na pherson ifanc golli diwrnod o ysgol am nad yw eu teuluoedd yn gallu fforddio iddynt fynychu. Rwy'n edrych ymlaen yn fawr at weld yr argymhellion yn cael eu gweithredu, ac unwaith eto rwy'n gofyn i bawb sy'n gallu helpu i wireddu'r argymhellion hyn eu gweithredu ar frys. Mae pob diwrnod sy'n cael ei golli yn yr ysgol gan ddysgwr yn ddiwrnod sy'n ehangu'r bwlch cyrhaeddiad. Mae angen inni weithredu nawr.

I'd like to start by offering my thanks to the committee, its clerking team and the witnesses for what I think is a very robust piece of work. For my contribution, I'll be focusing on a couple of the key recommendations. Firstly, recommendation 1 around promoting the importance of school attendance. We all know that it's important that children and young people attend school, and it's key that we get that positive message out there, especially after all the disruption and uncertainty that has been experienced over the past few years. I welcome the response from Welsh Government, saying that it will increase communications to parents and carers, both to address concerns and emphasise that positive rhetoric on the importance of going to school. I'm pleased at the mention of family engagement officers within the Minister's response, and their role in creating strong partnerships and offering bespoke support. I know these officers are doing really great work in Rhondda Cynon Taf, and I just want to pay tribute to the significant impact that they have. Secondly, I want to touch on recommendation 3 regarding learner travel. I endorse the committee's call for a learner-centred approach. Perhaps in this context it's worth briefly paying tribute to RCT council's offer for free transport. This applies if a child in primary school lives 1.5 miles from their nearest suitable provision, or 2 miles if attending secondary school. So, RCT already goes beyond what is set out in the Measure, focusing on the individual and trying to remove barriers to attending school. I understand the Welsh Government's comments around active travel as being important, but this will not be suitable for all children and also it would not be the choice for all parents and guardians. The comment in the Welsh Government's response that the proposed bus Bill offers a chance to also look again at school transport is a very important commitment. I hope this consideration will include a pilot study around free bus travel for children and young people, although I appreciate that it's something that the Minister might not be able to give today. There is lots to support this, and breaking down any barriers to attend school is, for me, a key factor. I appreciate the work Welsh Government already does to make transport more affordable for children and young people, but the Bill is a perfect chance to find out if taking this next step is feasible and desirable. That's a call that I know I and others have made before, but it is also one that both the previous Children's Commissioner for Wales and the Future Generations Commissioner for Wales have also supported. Thirdly, recommendations 4 and 7, and these relate to the use of data and how it triggers interventions and offers a call for greater consistency. I'm really pleased by the responsive comments from the Minister in relation to these. From my own experience of holding a pastoral role in a secondary school, I know how important it is to track and monitor attendance, so that any issues can be picked up, resolved by support with early interventions, and thereby preventing many problems from spiralling. Attendance data is perhaps the most valuable tool that schools have to identify pupils in need of support for things like mental health, and I completely agree with the quote from Professor Ann John in the report, that 'what gets counted matters'. And I endorse the children's commissioner's view of persistent absence as a red flag, suggestive of both symptom and cause, and I welcome the commitment to a consistent approach in any revised framework. I really would like to see a gold standard embedded across Wales. Finally, recommendation 5 on publishing information on the links between attainment and absence. I do have sympathy with this, but I feel it must be approached in a sensible way so that lessons are learned from previous approaches. Anecdotally, based on my own experiences, I'm thinking of previous systems where just a 4 per cent margin on attendance could see schools categorised at the extreme ends of the scale as either green or red. Sometimes the raw data doesn't quite tell the whole story, and I note the evidence given by NASUWT Cymru to the committee that while schools have a role to play, it is relative to the role that other organisations must play. I'd like to close by thanking the committee again for this piece of work. It's a really important subject to ensure that our children and young people get the best start, and problems are identified. But I'd also like to thank the Minister for his positive response, and I look forward to following the next steps as this work is taken forward.

Hoffwn ddechrau drwy gynnig fy niolch i'r pwyllgor, ei dîm clercio a'r tystion am yr hyn rwy'n ei ystyried yn ddarn cadarn iawn o waith. Yn fy nghyfraniad, byddaf yn canolbwyntio ar un neu ddau o'r argymhellion allweddol. Yn gyntaf, argymhelliad 1 ynghylch hyrwyddo pwysigrwydd presenoldeb yn yr ysgol. Rydym i gyd yn gwybod ei bod hi'n bwysig fod plant a phobl ifanc yn mynychu'r ysgol, ac mae'n allweddol ein bod yn cyfleu'r neges gadarnhaol honno, yn enwedig ar ôl yr holl darfu ac ansicrwydd a brofwyd dros y blynyddoedd diwethaf. Rwy'n croesawu'r ymateb gan Lywodraeth Cymru yn dweud y bydd yn cynyddu cysylltiad â rhieni a gofalwyr, er mwyn mynd i'r afael â phryderon a phwysleisio'r rhethreg gadarnhaol ynghylch pwysigrwydd mynychu'r ysgol. Rwy'n falch o'r cyfeiriad at swyddogion ymgysylltu â theuluoedd yn ymateb y Gweinidog, a'u rôl yn creu partneriaethau cryf ac yn cynnig cefnogaeth bwrpasol. Rwy'n gwybod bod y swyddogion hyn yn gwneud gwaith gwych iawn yn Rhondda Cynon Taf, a hoffwn dalu teyrnged i'r effaith sylweddol y maent yn ei chael. Yn ail, hoffwn grybwyll argymhelliad 3 ynglŷn â theithio gan ddysgwyr. Rwy'n cymeradwyo galwad y pwyllgor am ddull sy'n canolbwyntio ar y dysgwr. Yn y cyd-destun hwn, efallai ei bod yn werth talu teyrnged yn fyr i gynnig cludiant am ddim Cyngor Rhondda Cynon Taf. Mae hwn yn berthnasol os yw plentyn ysgol gynradd yn byw 1.5 milltir o'i ddarpariaeth addas agosaf, neu 2 filltir os yw'n mynychu ysgol uwchradd. Felly, mae Rhondda Cynon Taf eisoes yn mynd y tu hwnt i'r hyn sydd wedi'i nodi yn y Mesur, gan ganolbwyntio ar yr unigolyn a cheisio cael gwared ar rwystrau i fynychu'r ysgol. Rwy'n deall bod sylwadau Llywodraeth Cymru ynglŷn â theithio llesol yn bwysig, ond ni fydd hyn yn addas i bob plentyn ac nid dyma fyddai dewis pob rhiant a gwarcheidwad. Mae'r sylw yn ymateb Llywodraeth Cymru fod y Bil bysiau arfaethedig yn cynnig cyfle i edrych eto ar gludiant i'r ysgol hefyd yn ymrwymiad pwysig iawn. Rwy'n gobeithio y bydd yr ystyriaeth hon yn cynnwys astudiaeth beilot ar deithio am ddim ar fysiau i blant a phobl ifanc, er fy mod yn sylweddoli efallai ei fod yn rhywbeth na fydd y Gweinidog yn gallu ei roi heddiw. Mae llawer i gefnogi hyn, ac mae chwalu unrhyw rwystrau i fynychu'r ysgol, i mi, yn ffactor allweddol. Rwy'n gwerthfawrogi'r gwaith y mae Llywodraeth Cymru eisoes yn ei wneud i wneud cludiant yn fwy fforddiadwy i blant a phobl ifanc, ond mae'r Bil yn gyfle perffaith i ddarganfod a yw cymryd y cam nesaf hwn yn ymarferol ac yn ddymunol. Mae honno'n alwad y gwn fy mod i ac eraill wedi'i gwneud o'r blaen, ond mae hefyd yn un y mae Comisiynydd Plant blaenorol Cymru a Chomisiynydd Cenedlaethau'r Dyfodol Cymru wedi ei chefnogi. Yn drydydd, argymhellion 4 a 7, ac mae'r rhain yn ymwneud â defnyddio data a sut mae'n sbarduno ymyriadau ac yn galw am fwy o gysondeb. Rwy'n falch iawn o'r sylwadau ymatebol gan y Gweinidog mewn perthynas â'r rhain. O'm profiad fy hun o chwarae rôl fugeiliol mewn ysgol uwchradd, rwy'n gwybod pa mor bwysig yw olrhain a monitro presenoldeb, fel y gellir nodi unrhyw broblemau, eu datrys drwy gefnogaeth gydag ymyriadau cynnar, a thrwy hynny atal llawer o broblemau rhag gwaethygu. Mae'n bosibl mai data presenoldeb yw'r arf mwyaf gwerthfawr sydd gan ysgolion i adnabod disgyblion sydd angen cefnogaeth gyda phethau fel iechyd meddwl, ac rwy'n cytuno'n llwyr gyda dyfyniad yr Athro Ann John yn yr adroddiad, 'mai'r hyn sy'n cael ei gyfrif sydd o bwys'. Ac rwy'n cymeradwyo'r hyn a ddywed y Comisiynydd Plant, sef bod absenoldeb parhaus yn faner goch, sy'n awgrymu symptom ac achos fel ei gilydd, ac rwy'n croesawu'r ymrwymiad i ddull cyson mewn unrhyw fframwaith diwygiedig. Hoffwn yn fawr weld safon aur yn cael ei gwreiddio ledled Cymru. Yn olaf, argymhelliad 5 ar gyhoeddi gwybodaeth am y cysylltiadau rhwng cyrhaeddiad ac absenoldeb. Rwy'n cydymdeimlo â hyn, ond rwy'n teimlo bod rhaid mynd ati mewn ffordd synhwyrol fel bod gwersi'n cael eu dysgu o ddulliau blaenorol. Yn anecdotaidd, yn seiliedig ar fy mhrofiadau fy hun, rwy'n meddwl am systemau blaenorol lle roedd gwahaniaeth o 4 y cant yn y lefelau presenoldeb yn arwain at ysgolion yn cael eu categoreiddio ar begynau eithaf y raddfa, naill ai'n wyrdd neu'n goch. Weithiau, nid yw'r data crai yn dweud y stori gyfan, ac rwy'n nodi'r dystiolaeth a roddwyd gan Gymdeithas Genedlaethol yr Ysgolfeistri ac Undeb yr Athrawesau i'r pwyllgor, a oedd yn nodi, er bod gan ysgolion rôl i'w chwarae, ei bod yn gymharol i'r rôl y mae'n rhaid i sefydliadau eraill ei chwarae. Hoffwn gloi drwy ddiolch eto i'r pwyllgor am y gwaith hwn. Mae'n bwnc pwysig iawn i sicrhau bod ein plant a'n pobl ifanc yn cael y dechrau gorau, a bod problemau'n cael eu nodi. Ond hoffwn ddiolch hefyd i'r Gweinidog am ei ymateb cadarnhaol, ac edrychaf ymlaen at ddilyn y camau nesaf wrth i'r gwaith hwn gael ei ddatblygu.

Can I join Vikki Howells and other colleagues by commending the committee on a really thorough piece of work, I think, into what is a very ingrained problem and one that was definitely here before COVID-19? But what's clear from the committee report is the added impact of COVID and lockdowns on pupil absence. So, it's deeply concerning to see evidence that shows that the mental health of children and young people has been severely affected by the pandemic, to the point that they are not attending school. I see that the Minister is looking at a communication strategy to encourage children and young people back into school, and that this messaging could be localised. So, I'd be interested to see what updates the Minister has on this, and whether he's taken on board the committee's point that there needs to be a baseline for children across Wales to be supported back into school, so there won't be detrimental differences in local responses. It's also notable from the Minister's reply to the committee that he's placing an emphasis on community-focused schools and family engagement officers to respond to the issue. So, I'm keen to know how the Minister is intending to use them, and what their role will be in spreading this particular message. Clearly, there are many, many factors at play when it comes to pupil absence, from those with additional learning needs not getting the right support to the impact of poverty, to being a young carer, which the Minister himself said was a hidden issue. It's a complex problem, and schools, local authorities and families need to have all of the tools available at their disposal to support children back into school. Education should be a right and not an added benefit. It should also be of no surprise to any of us in the Chamber today that the impact of absenteeism on pupil learning is devastating. We're already the country with the highest rate of school days lost during the pandemic in the UK, and, sadly, it looks like pupils are set to miss out on even more due to industrial action, which is entirely within the Welsh Government's gift to prevent. However, as the committee report shows, it's not just attainment and employability that are affected, it's socialisation, building friendships and access to mental health support at school. Without these basic interactions, a lack of schooling will lead to poor behaviour and, later on, as ASCL Cymru noted to the committee, criminal or anti-social behaviour even within the community, as well as the potential for increased youth violence. I'm really curious about the statement the Minister made last May about Welsh Government action on pupil absence, which included national communication to families about the importance of attending school; nearly £4 million in funding for the family engagement officers and the reintroduction of fixed-penalty notices as a last resort. However, not only does it look like the Minister rowed back on the use of fixed-penalty notices by saying that they're being considered as part of a broader review of an all-Wales attendance framework, but the guidance he's been giving to local authorities when reintroducing them has been ambiguous, and I quote, 'has weakened the position of local authority interventions'. How can local authorities use those powers at their disposal without clear guidance on when they're able to intervene? It's very interesting to see as well in the part of the world that we both represent, Minister, Neath Port Talbot has the highest average rates of unauthorised absences in the academic year to date, running at over 5 per cent, nearly double the Welsh average and almost triple the rates in Powys and Monmouthshire. Neath Port Talbot also has the highest average percentage of sessions of absence, running at over 12 per cent in the 2022-23 academic year so far. Therefore, I want to know what urgent action the Minister is taking to ensure local authorities, particularly Neath Port Talbot, are able to take the necessary action to stop entrenched and persistent absenteeism, which has only been exacerbated by the pandemic. And finally, I was struck by a statistic outlined recently by Bridgend County Borough Council that said that even with a 90 per cent attendance rate over an academic year, a pupil would miss out on 100 lessons - 100 lessons. That's 100 lessons of maths, English, Welsh, science, physical education and so on over a single year. We should be pushing really hard on this. Of course, lockdowns have affected our children's education severely, and we can't afford to have them further impacted after COVID restrictions have now ended. If we do continue down this road, then we're facing a potential lost generation, and the fault will have been ours. Diolch.

A gaf fi ymuno â Vikki Howells a chyd-Aelodau eraill drwy ganmol y pwyllgor ar eu gwaith trylwyr iawn yn fy marn i ar broblem ddyrys iawn a phroblem a oedd yn bendant yn ein hwynebu cyn COVID-19? Ond yr hyn sy'n glir o adroddiad y pwyllgor yw effaith ychwanegol COVID a'r cyfyngiadau symud ar absenoldeb disgyblion. Testun pryder mawr felly yw gweld tystiolaeth sy'n dangos bod iechyd meddwl plant a phobl ifanc wedi cael ei effeithio'n ddifrifol gan y pandemig, i'r pwynt lle nad ydynt yn mynychu'r ysgol. Gwelaf fod y Gweinidog yn edrych ar strategaeth gyfathrebu i annog plant a phobl ifanc i ddychwelyd i'r ysgol, ac y gallai'r negeseuon hyn gael eu gwneud ar lefel leol. Felly, byddai gennyf ddiddordeb mewn gweld pa ddiweddariadau sydd gan y Gweinidog ar hyn, ac a yw wedi rhoi ystyriaeth i bwynt y pwyllgor fod angen llinell sylfaen i blant ledled Cymru gael eu cefnogi yn ôl i'r ysgol, fel na fydd gwahaniaethau niweidiol mewn ymatebion lleol. Mae'n amlwg hefyd, o ateb y Gweinidog i'r pwyllgor, ei fod yn rhoi pwyslais ar ysgolion bro a swyddogion ymgysylltu â theuluoedd i ymateb i'r mater. Felly, rwy'n awyddus i wybod sut mae'r Gweinidog yn bwriadu eu defnyddio, a beth fydd eu rôl yn lledaenu'r neges benodol hon. Yn amlwg, mae llawer iawn o ffactorau ar waith gydag absenoldeb disgyblion, o'r rhai sydd ag anghenion dysgu ychwanegol nad ydynt yn cael y gefnogaeth gywir i effaith tlodi, i fod yn ofalwr ifanc, a dywedodd y Gweinidog ei hun fod hwnnw'n fater cudd. Mae'n broblem gymhleth, ac mae angen i ysgolion, awdurdodau lleol a theuluoedd gael yr holl adnoddau sydd ar gael at eu defnydd i gefnogi plant yn ôl i'r ysgol. Dylai addysg fod yn hawl ac nid yn fudd ychwanegol. Ni ddylai fod yn syndod i'r un ohonom yn y Siambr heddiw ychwaith fod effaith absenoldeb ar ddysgu disgyblion yn ddinistriol. Eisoes, ni yw'r wlad a gollodd y gyfradd uchaf o ddyddiau ysgol yn ystod y pandemig yn y DU, ac yn anffodus, mae'n edrych yn debygol y bydd disgyblion yn colli mwy eto oherwydd gweithredu diwydiannol, rhywbeth sy'n llwyr o fewn gallu Llywodraeth Cymru i'w atal. Fodd bynnag, fel y dengys adroddiad y pwyllgor, nid cyrhaeddiad a chyflogadwyedd yn unig sy'n cael eu heffeithio, ond pethau fel cymdeithasu, meithrin cyfeillgarwch a mynediad at gymorth iechyd meddwl yn yr ysgol. Heb y rhyngweithio sylfaenol hwn, bydd diffyg addysg yn arwain at ymddygiad gwael, ac yn ddiweddarach, fel y nododd Cymdeithas Arweinwyr Ysgolion a Cholegau Cymru i'r pwyllgor, at ymddygiad troseddol neu wrthgymdeithasol hyd yn oed o fewn y gymuned, yn ogystal â'r potensial ar gyfer cynnydd mewn trais ieuenctid. Rwy'n chwilfrydig iawn am y datganiad a wnaeth y Gweinidog fis Mai diwethaf ynghylch camau gweithredu gan Lywodraeth Cymru mewn perthynas ag absenoldeb disgyblion, a oedd yn cynnwys cyfathrebu â theuluoedd yn genedlaethol am bwysigrwydd mynychu'r ysgol; bron i £4 miliwn o gyllid ar gyfer y swyddogion ymgysylltu â theuluoedd ac ailgyflwyno hysbysiadau cosb benodedig fel dewis olaf. Fodd bynnag, mae'n edrych yn debyg fod y Gweinidog wedi cymryd cam yn ôl ar ddefnyddio hysbysiadau cosb benodedig drwy ddweud eu bod yn cael eu hystyried fel rhan o adolygiad ehangach o fframwaith presenoldeb Cymru gyfan, ond mae'r canllawiau y mae wedi bod yn eu rhoi i awdurdodau lleol wrth eu hailgyflwyno wedi bod yn amwys, ac rwy'n dyfynnu, 'wedi gwanhau sefyllfa ymyriadau awdurdodau lleol'. Sut y gall awdurdodau lleol ddefnyddio'r pwerau sydd ar gael iddynt heb ganllawiau clir ynglŷn â phryd y gallant ymyrryd? Mae'n ddiddorol iawn gweld hefyd, yn y rhan o'r byd y mae'r ddau ohonom yn ei chynrychioli, Weinidog, mai Castell-nedd Port Talbot sydd â'r gyfradd gyfartalog uchaf o absenoldebau anawdurdodedig yn y flwyddyn academaidd hyd yma, ar dros 5 y cant, bron ddwbl cyfartaledd Cymru a bron dair gwaith y cyfraddau ym Mhowys a sir Fynwy. Castell-nedd Port Talbot hefyd sydd â'r ganran gyfartalog uchaf o sesiynau absenoldeb, ar dros 12 y cant ym mlwyddyn academaidd 2022-23 hyd yma. Felly, hoffwn wybod pa gamau brys y mae'r Gweinidog yn eu cymryd i sicrhau bod awdurdodau lleol, yn enwedig Castell-nedd Port Talbot, yn gallu rhoi'r camau angenrheidiol ar waith i atal absenoldeb parhaus sydd wedi ymwreiddio ac nad yw ond wedi cael ei waethygu gan y pandemig. Ac yn olaf, cefais fy nharo gan ystadegyn a amlinellwyd yn ddiweddar gan Gyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol Pen-y-bont ar Ogwr a ddywedodd y byddai disgybl, hyd yn oed gyda chyfradd presenoldeb o 90 y cant dros flwyddyn academaidd, yn colli 100 o wersi - 100 o wersi. Dyna 100 gwers fathemateg, Saesneg, Cymraeg, gwyddoniaeth, addysg gorfforol ac yn y blaen dros un flwyddyn. Dylem fod yn gwthio'n galed iawn ar hyn. Wrth gwrs, mae'r cyfyngiadau symud wedi effeithio ar addysg ein plant yn ddifrifol, ac ni allwn fforddio iddynt gael eu heffeithio ymhellach gyda chyfyngiadau COVID wedi dod i ben erbyn hyn. Os ydym yn parhau ar y trywydd hwn, gallem wynebu cenhedlaeth goll, ac arnom ni fydd y bai. Diolch.

Thank you very much indeed for your interesting report on a very important subject. I think too often in the past the primary purpose of the school system was to maximise the numbers of people who achieved five A to Cs, including English and Maths. I think it's called the capped score in the jargon. But this takes no account of the complexity and challenge of pupils' lives and their ability to learn. Many of you have already mentioned some of these and you've captured them in your report. I think, in particular, it's important to think about parental influence and families with complex and multiple needs. Today, I had the privilege to meet a young man who's now in year 13, but he started his school career aged 6 as an asylum seeker who spoke absolutely no English and had ADHD. Had he not had some really good support through his school life, I'm sure that he might well have misbehaved and got himself excluded. In addition, his mother was a teacher, so she was able to give him the sort of support to follow the curriculum in primary school that he was struggling to understand and absorb. Imagine if that child's parent had not been a teacher, didn't understand how you support young people's learning - you can see how that person could have fallen behind in their learning. The National Autistic Society evidence lists, I think, nine reasons why young people who are autistic would struggle with learning. But I would suggest that that is something that all children could struggle with, not necessarily on the scale that autistic people have. If people are not reflective of the impact of their behaviour on others, then it can lead to terrible consequences. My own granddaughter had her first detention yesterday, because she and five other six-year-olds had been unkind. One of them had written an unkind note to another child in the class, which happily the primary school was able to pick up on, and I hope that will enable them to see the consequences of unkind actions. I think that nurturing environments can be created much more easily in primary schools, because everybody knows everybody else, and they have the same class teacher, who obviously will get to know those 30 children intimately and all their needs. It's a much bigger challenge in secondary schools, which are noisier, bigger, more challenging places, less likely that the people you sit next to are also living in exactly the same community. Mental health issues, particularly in adolescence, when there are such huge challenges on young people - . We all make mistakes. If we're not making mistakes when we're adolescents, we're not learning how we're going to navigate our way in the world. What I would like to see from this debate is that we have trauma-informed approaches to all our pupils. We have the wonderful new curriculum, with its emphasis on well-being, and I want to see that being used by school leaders to revisit their responsibilities to develop enterprising and creative contributors, healthy, confident individuals, ambitious, capable learners and ethical, informed citizens, because we cannot have schools that simply exclude people because they can't be bothered to deal with their problems. That still exists in Wales, not in every school, but we need to ensure that all schools have responsibility towards the pupils who enter their school, particularly aged 11, and to ensure that they are with them until they are 16, and that the curriculum accommodates them, rather than the child having to be strait-laced into this particular curriculum. That is the way we will ensure that every child has the right to an education. That, it seems to me, is very important, as well as all the other issues around school transport that are also very important. But I just wanted to put that on the record. I'd like to challenge the Minister as to whether school leaders are expected never to exclude pupils on a permanent basis unless there were very, very special circumstances, which would have to be decided elsewhere, other than by the headteacher.

Diolch yn fawr iawn i chi am eich adroddiad diddorol ar bwnc pwysig iawn. Yn rhy aml yn y gorffennol, rwy'n credu mai prif bwrpas y system ysgolion oedd sicrhau bod y nifer mwyaf o bobl yn cael pum gradd A i C, gan gynnwys Saesneg a Mathemateg. Rwy'n credu ei fod yn cael ei alw yn sgôr wedi'i chapio yn y jargon. Ond nid yw hyn yn ystyried cymhlethdod a her bywydau disgyblion a'u gallu i ddysgu. Mae llawer ohonoch eisoes wedi sôn am rai o'r rhain ac rydych wedi eu cynnwys yn eich adroddiad. Yn benodol, rwy'n credu ei bod yn bwysig meddwl am ddylanwad rhieni a theuluoedd sydd ag anghenion cymhleth a lluosog. Heddiw, cefais y fraint o gyfarfod â dyn ifanc sydd bellach ym mlwyddyn 13, ond a ddechreuodd ei yrfa ysgol yn 6 oed fel ceisiwr lloches a oedd yn byw gydag anhwylder diffyg canolbwyntio a gorfywiogrwydd ac nad oedd yn gallu siarad gair o Saesneg. Pe na bai wedi cael cefnogaeth dda iawn drwy ei fywyd ysgol, rwy'n siŵr y gallai fod wedi camymddwyn a chael ei wahardd. Yn ogystal, roedd ei fam yn athrawes, felly gallai roi cymorth iddo allu dilyn y cwricwlwm yn yr ysgol gynradd y câi hi'n anodd ei ddeall a'i amsugno. Dychmygwch pe na bai rhiant y plentyn hwnnw wedi bod yn athrawes, dychmygwch a phe na bai'n deall sut i gefnogi dysgu pobl ifanc - gallwch weld sut y gallai'r unigolyn hwnnw fod wedi syrthio ar ei hôl hi gyda'u dysgu. Mae tystiolaeth Cymdeithas Genedlaethol Awtistiaeth Cymru yn rhestru naw rheswm, rwy'n credu, pam y byddai pobl ifanc awtistig yn cael trafferth gyda'u dysgu. Ond byddwn yn awgrymu bod hynny'n rhywbeth y gallai pob plentyn gael trafferth gydag ef, nid o reidrwydd i'r un graddau â phobl awtistig. Os nad yw pobl yn myfyrio ar effaith eu hymddygiad ar eraill, gall arwain at ganlyniadau ofnadwy. Cafodd fy wyres fy hun ei chadw ar ôl ysgol am y tro cyntaf ddoe, oherwydd ei bod hi a phump o blant eraill chwech oed wedi bod yn angharedig. Roedd un ohonynt wedi ysgrifennu nodyn angharedig i blentyn arall yn y dosbarth, a diolch byth fod yr ysgol gynradd wedi sylwi ar hynny, ac rwy'n gobeithio y bydd hynny'n eu dysgu i ystyried canlyniadau gweithredoedd angharedig. Rwy'n credu y gellir creu amgylcheddau meithringar yn llawer haws mewn ysgolion cynradd, oherwydd mae pawb yn adnabod pawb arall, ac mae ganddynt yr un athro dosbarth, a fydd yn amlwg yn dod i adnabod y 30 o blant yn eu gofal yn dda yn ogystal â'u holl anghenion. Mae'n her lawer mwy mewn ysgolion uwchradd, sy'n llefydd mwy o faint, mwy swnllyd, mwy heriol, ac mae'n llai tebygol y bydd y bobl rydych yn eistedd wrth eu hymyl yn byw yn yr un gymuned yn union. Mae problemau iechyd meddwl, yn enwedig yn ystod y glasoed, pan fo pobl ifanc yn wynebu heriau mor enfawr - . Rydym i gyd yn gwneud camgymeriadau. Os nad ydym yn gwneud camgymeriadau pan fyddwn yn ein harddegau, nid ydym yn dysgu sut i lywio ein ffordd yn y byd. Yr hyn yr hoffwn ei weld o'r ddadl hon yw bod gennym ddulliau sy'n ystyriol o drawma i'n holl ddisgyblion. Mae gennym y cwricwlwm newydd gwych, gyda'i bwyslais ar lesiant, ac rwyf eisiau gweld hwnnw'n cael ei ddefnyddio gan arweinwyr ysgol i ailedrych ar eu cyfrifoldebau i ddatblygu cyfranwyr mentrus a chreadigol, unigolion iach, hyderus, dysgwyr uchelgeisiol, galluog a dinasyddion moesegol, gwybodus, oherwydd ni allwn gael ysgolion sy'n gwahardd pobl oherwydd nad oes ganddynt amynedd i ymdrin â'u problemau. Mae hynny'n dal i fodoli yng Nghymru, nid ym mhob ysgol, ond mae angen sicrhau bod gan bob ysgol gyfrifoldeb tuag at y disgyblion sy'n dod i'w hysgol, yn enwedig plant 11 oed, a sicrhau eu bod yn aros gyda hwy tan eu bod yn 16 oed, a bod y cwricwlwm yn eu cynnwys, yn hytrach na bod rhaid gorfodi plentyn i ddilyn cwricwlwm penodol. Dyna sut y gallwn sicrhau bod gan bob plentyn hawl i addysg. Mae'n ymddangos i mi fod hynny'n bwysig iawn, yn ogystal â'r holl faterion eraill yn ymwneud â chludiant i'r ysgol sydd hefyd yn bwysig iawn. Ond roeddwn eisiau cofnodi'r pwynt hwnnw. Hoffwn herio'r Gweinidog drwy ofyn a oes disgwyl i arweinwyr ysgolion beidio byth â gwahardd disgyblion yn barhaol oni bai bod amgylchiadau arbennig iawn, y byddai'n rhaid penderfynu arnynt mewn mannau eraill, ar wahân i gan y pennaeth.

Thank you, Dirprwy Lywydd. I'd like to thank the members of the Children, Young People and Education Committee for this important report. What's clear to me in considering the recommendations is the importance of considering attendance along with other influences and factors, as we've already heard, such as socioeconomic status, well-being and broader systemic issues. Tackling the impact of poverty on educational attainment is at the heart of our national mission in getting high standards and ambitious targets for everyone. Only through taking action in all parts of the system can this agenda work, starting with preschool education and extending through to post-16 and lifelong education. I was pleased to appoint new attainment champions recently who will assist schools in tackling the impacts of poverty on attainment. We know that the cost of transport is a barrier for some children attending schools. We've heard more about that today. The situation has been exacerbated for many as a result of the current cost-of-living crisis. The Welsh Government has published a White Paper, 'One network, one timetable, one ticket', which sets an ambitious target to transform the bus service in Wales. The proposals will be an opportunity to look anew at the way that bus services are provided across the country, including school transportation. In response to Jayne Bryant's point in her contribution, I think everyone is agreed on the scale of the issue and how important it is to take action, but we must also look at this in the broader context in considering the financial impact as well as looking at this in the context of wider bus reform. It's important to understand how other pressures could impact on children's ability to attend schools. So, we have funded research to look at the reasons for school absences, and the research will also note the best ways of assisting children to attend school, particularly those children from low-income families across Wales.

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. Hoffwn i ddiolch i aelodau'r Pwyllgor Plant, Pobl Ifanc ac Addysg am yr adroddiad pwysig hwn. Yr hyn sy'n glir i mi wrth feddwl am yr argymhellion ydy pwysigrwydd ystyried presenoldeb ochr yn ochr â dylanwadau a ffactorau eraill, fel rŷn ni wedi clywed heddiw, fel statws economaidd-gymdeithasol, llesiant a materion systemig ehangach. Mae taclo effaith tlodi ar gyrhaeddiad addysgol wrth wraidd cenhadaeth ein cenedl ni, sef sicrhau safonau uchel a dyheadau uchelgeisiol i bawb. Dim ond drwy weithredu ym mhob rhan o'r system y gall yr agenda hwn lwyddo, yn dechrau gydag addysg cyn ysgol ac yn ymestyn hyd at addysg ôl-16 ac addysg gydol oes. Roeddwn i'n falch o benodi pencampwyr cyrhaeddiad newydd yn ddiweddar. Byddan nhw'n helpu ysgolion i daclo effaith tlodi ar gyrhaeddiad. Rŷn ni'n gwybod bod costau cludiant yn rhwystro rhai plant rhag mynychu'r ysgol. Rŷn ni wedi clywed mwy am hynny heddiw. Mae'r sefyllfa wedi gwaethygu i lawer o ganlyniad i'r argyfwng costau byw. Mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi cyhoeddi Papur Gwyn, 'Un rhwydwaith, un amserlen, un tocyn'. Mae'n gosod gweledigaeth uchelgeisiol i drawsnewid y gwasanaeth bysiau yng Nghymru. Bydd y cynigion yn gyfle i ni edrych o'r newydd ar y ffordd mae'r gwasanaeth bysiau'n cael ei ddarparu ar hyd a lled y wlad, yn cynnwys cludiant i'r ysgol. Mewn ateb i'r hyn wnaeth Jayne Bryant godi yn ei chyfraniad hi, mae pawb yn cytuno gyda maint yr isiw a pha mor bwysig yw e i allu gweithredu, ond mae'n rhaid hefyd edrych ar hyn yn y cyd-destun ehangach o ystyried yr impact ariannol, ac edrych ar hyn yng nghyd-destun diwygiadau bysus ehangach. Mae'n bwysig deall sut y gallai pwysau eraill effeithio ar allu plant i fynychu'r ysgol. Felly, rŷn ni wedi ariannu ymchwil i ystyried y rhesymau dros absenoldebau. Bydd yr ymchwil hefyd yn nodi'r ffyrdd gorau o helpu plant i fynychu'r ysgol, yn enwedig y plant hynny o deuluoedd ar incwm isel ar draws Cymru.

The link between attendance and educational attainment is, of course, clear. Missing sustained periods of school presents a real risk to a child's attainment, and can also lead to them feeling more disengaged from their education. Monitoring educational outcomes and the links with attendance rates are crucial considerations as part of the development of the new data ecosystem. Simply put, the ecosystem will ensure that schools have the information they need to support learning and improve outcomes and to be able to link questions of attendance with questions of outcome. We know that schools provide so much more than education. For some children, school is a haven, a place where they feel safe, where they feel seen and heard. School provides an opportunity for children to see positive values in action, a place where bonds and friendships are created that can last a lifetime, as well as a place to develop the social skills that we know are so important. Schools can't do this alone, of course. Success is dependent on partnership with parents, carers and the community. We know that greater engagement with families has been shown to have a positive impact on tackling the impact of poverty on attainment and on improving attendance. I was at a school last week talking to the head about how they engage with families around attendance, and he said to me that if you talk to families about 90 per cent attendance, for many that feels like a very high level of achievement, but when you describe the number of days lost that that involves, that paints a very much starker picture. We want all schools in Wales to be community-focused schools, which means responding to the needs of their community, building strong partnerships with families and carers, and collaborating effectively with other services. Our family engagement officers play a critical role in our community-focused school model. Family engagement ensures that families feel listened to and valued. Their needs, and those of their children, are understood and catered for. They are encouraged to play an active role in their child's learning. Schools should encourage the involvement of all families in the work that they do, but should have a particular focus on supporting families from lower income households. I thank Jenny Rathbone for the visit to the school in her constituency today where we heard some very innovative approaches in relation to just that. We'll continue to invest in family engagement officers this year by providing funding of over £6.5 million. We are also looking, as has been referred to in the debate, at what we can do nationally to support schools in engaging with parents and carers and around communications to address any concerns they still have, and emphasising the importance of children going to school. Some local authorities have already been running local campaigns, and we will consider what lessons we can learn to share nationally across Wales in the way that Jayne Bryant was asking for me to confirm. Local authoritiy education welfare services have a vital role to play, not only in driving up attendance, but also in ensuring all children receive the education they deserve and have the right to expect. I'll be investing £2.5 million into these services this year to provide much-needed additional capacity. This will enable the service to provide earlier support before issues escalate, and also provide more intensive support to learners with high levels of absence. We know there has been an increase in the numbers of families choosing to home educate since the pandemic. For some, this has been an active choice, but I acknowledge this is not likely to have been the case for all. No parent should be deregistering their child due to a lack of appropriate support. Understanding the decisions that lie behind parents choosing to home educate is therefore important. We are working with Data Cymru to improve the quality and level of data we currently capture in relation to deregistration and the key demographics of this cohort, including the reasons for deregistration. As we've discussed already in the debate today, poor mental health has been linked to poor school attendance, with anxiety often described as a key factor. Our framework on embedding a whole-school approach to emotional and mental well-being highlights the need for schools to use the data sources available to them when considering the well-being needs of their community. We'll be considering how attendance data can be used to help inform how schools support the well-being of learners to prevent persistent absence. Ensuring that every young person has the opportunity to reach their potential is my priority, and working with partners to increase learner attendance is fundamental to this.

Mae'r cysylltiad rhwng presenoldeb a chyrhaeddiad addysgol yn glir wrth gwrs. Mae cyfnodau parhaus o absenoldeb o'r ysgol yn creu risg wirioneddol i gyrhaeddiad plentyn, a gall hefyd arwain at wneud iddynt deimlo'n fwy datgysylltiedig o'u haddysg. Mae monitro canlyniadau addysgol a'r cysylltiadau â chyfraddau presenoldeb yn ystyriaethau hanfodol fel rhan o ddatblygu'r ecosystem ddata newydd. Yn syml, bydd yr ecosystem yn sicrhau bod gan ysgolion yr wybodaeth sydd ei hangen arnynt i gefnogi dysgu a gwella canlyniadau ac i allu cysylltu cwestiynau ynghylch presenoldeb â chwestiynau ynghylch canlyniadau. Rydym yn gwybod bod ysgolion yn darparu cymaint mwy nag addysg. I rai plant, mae'r ysgol yn hafan, yn rhywle lle maent yn teimlo'n ddiogel, lle maent yn teimlo eu bod yn cael eu gweld a'u clywed. Mae'r ysgol yn rhoi cyfle i blant weld gwerthoedd cadarnhaol ar waith, man lle mae bondiau a chyfeillgarwch sy'n gallu para am oes yn cael eu creu, yn ogystal â lle i ddatblygu'r sgiliau cymdeithasol y gwyddom eu bod mor bwysig. Ni all ysgolion wneud hyn ar eu pen eu hunain wrth gwrs. Mae llwyddiant yn ddibynnol ar bartneriaeth â rhieni, gofalwyr a'r gymuned. Gwyddom fod tystiolaeth yn dangos bod mwy o ymgysylltiad â theuluoedd yn cael effaith gadarnhaol ar fynd i'r afael ag effaith tlodi ar gyrhaeddiad ac ar wella presenoldeb. Roeddwn mewn ysgol yr wythnos diwethaf yn siarad â'r pennaeth ynglŷn â sut maent yn ymgysylltu â theuluoedd mewn perthynas â phresenoldeb, a dywedodd wrthyf, os siaradwch â theuluoedd am bresenoldeb o 90 y cant, i nifer o bobl mae hynny'n teimlo fel lefel uchel iawn o gyflawniad, ond pan fyddwch chi'n disgrifio nifer y dyddiau a gollir drwy hynny, mae'n paentio darlun llawer mwy llwm. Rydym eisiau i bob ysgol yng Nghymru fod yn ysgolion bro, sy'n golygu ymateb i anghenion eu cymuned, meithrin partneriaethau cryf gyda theuluoedd a gofalwyr, a chydweithio'n effeithiol â gwasanaethau eraill. Mae ein swyddogion ymgysylltu â theuluoedd yn chwarae rhan hanfodol yn ein model ysgolion bro. Mae ymgysylltu â theuluoedd yn sicrhau bod teuluoedd yn teimlo'u bod yn cael eu clywed a'u gwerthfawrogi. Mae eu hanghenion, a rhai eu plant, yn cael eu deall a'u diwallu. Maent yn cael eu hannog i chwarae rhan weithredol yn addysg eu plentyn. Dylai ysgolion annog cyfranogiad pob teulu yn y gwaith a wnânt, ond dylai fod ganddynt ffocws penodol ar gefnogi teuluoedd o aelwydydd incwm is. Diolch i Jenny Rathbone am yr ymweliad â'r ysgol yn ei hetholaeth heddiw lle clywsom am ddulliau arloesol iawn mewn perthynas â hynny. Byddwn yn parhau i fuddsoddi mewn swyddogion ymgysylltu â theuluoedd eleni drwy ddarparu cyllid o dros £6.5 miliwn. Fel y nodwyd yn y ddadl, rydym hefyd yn edrych ar yr hyn y gallwn ei wneud yn genedlaethol i gefnogi ysgolion i ymgysylltu â rhieni a gofalwyr ac mewn perthynas â chyfathrebu i fynd i'r afael ag unrhyw bryderon sy'n dal i fod ganddynt, a phwysleisio pa mor bwysig yw hi i'w plant fynd i'r ysgol. Mae rhai awdurdodau lleol wedi bod yn cynnal ymgyrchoedd lleol eisoes, a byddwn yn ystyried pa wersi y gallwn eu dysgu i'w rhannu'n genedlaethol ar draws Cymru yn y modd roedd Jayne Bryant yn gofyn i mi ei gadarnhau. Mae gan wasanaethau lles addysg awdurdodau lleol rôl hanfodol i'w chwarae, nid yn unig i godi lefelau presenoldeb, ond hefyd i sicrhau bod pob plentyn yn cael yr addysg y maent yn ei haeddu ac y mae ganddynt hawl i'w disgwyl. Byddaf yn buddsoddi £2.5 miliwn yn y gwasanaethau hyn eleni er mwyn darparu capasiti ychwanegol mawr ei angen. Bydd hyn yn galluogi'r gwasanaeth i ddarparu cefnogaeth gynharach cyn i broblemau waethygu, a bydd hefyd yn rhoi cymorth mwy dwys i ddysgwyr sydd â lefelau uchel o absenoldeb. Rydym yn gwybod bod cynnydd wedi bod yn nifer y teuluoedd sy'n dewis addysg yn y cartref ers y pandemig. I rai, mae hwn wedi bod yn ddewis gweithredol, ond rwy'n cydnabod nad yw hyn yn debygol o fod yn wir am bawb. Ni ddylai unrhyw riant fod yn datgofrestru ei blentyn oherwydd diffyg cefnogaeth briodol. Felly mae deall rhesymau rhieni dros ddewis addysg yn y cartref yn bwysig. Rydym yn gweithio gyda Data Cymru i wella ansawdd a lefel y data a gofnodir gennym ar hyn o bryd mewn perthynas â datgofrestru a demograffeg allweddol y garfan hon, gan gynnwys y rhesymau dros ddatgofrestru. Fel rydym eisoes wedi'i drafod yn y ddadl heddiw, mae iechyd meddwl gwael wedi cael ei gysylltu â phresenoldeb gwael yn yr ysgol, gyda gorbryder yn aml yn cael ei ddisgrifio fel ffactor allweddol. Mae ein fframwaith ar wreiddio dull ysgol gyfan o sicrhau llesiant emosiynol a meddyliol yn amlygu'r angen i ysgolion ddefnyddio'r ffynonellau data sydd ar gael iddynt wrth ystyried anghenion llesiant eu cymuned. Byddwn yn ystyried sut y gellir defnyddio data presenoldeb i helpu i lywio'r modd y mae ysgolion yn cefnogi llesiant dysgwyr i atal absenoldeb parhaus. Fy mlaenoriaeth yw sicrhau bod pob person ifanc yn cael cyfle i gyrraedd eu potensial, ac mae gweithio gyda phartneriaid i gynyddu presenoldeb dysgwyr yn hanfodol i hyn.

Diolch, Deputy Llywydd. Thank you to all Members who've contributed to the debate today and for the Minister's response. I'd also like to put on record my grateful thanks to our excellent clerking team, our researchers and outreach team who've really supported us as a committee. There really is clearly a shared ambition here to ensure that children and young people are able to attend school and engage in school activity as much as possible. The impact absence from school has on young people can't be underestimated. We've heard today as well not only does is effect educational attainment, it can also have an impact on mental health and well-being. We've heard from Members today, including Tom Giffard, who said about the pandemic and how that has impacted children and young people in many ways following school closures and changing work patterns for parents, and we've also heard how it's changed attitudes towards attendance at school. Saying this, I do want to acknowledge that there will be some children and young people for whom sustaining regular school attendance is particularly challenging, and that might be for a myriad of reasons, some of which are out of their control, such as illness. In these instances we should be doing everything we can to help children and young people engage as fully as possible in a supportive manner. But as Laura Jones said earlier, we must make it as easy as possible for children and young people to attend school. Members have touched on a number of topics. I think one of the key points was around the learner travel issues. I think Laura, Heledd and Vikki in particular touched on that. That was our recommendation 3 - that we want to see that learner travel moving away from cost-driven decisions to a learner-first approach. We're very aware of the financial pressures that local authorities are under, which is why the committee recommended that the Welsh Government ensure local authorities have sufficient funding to deliver on this. But we do want to see the Welsh Government being radical in its approach on this issue, and to look for innovative solutions to this really long-standing, sticky issue. Just for Members to note, outside of this inquiry, the committee has recently written to the Deputy Minister for Climate Change, asking for an update on the learner travel review. The Deputy Minister said that work is currently under way on planning the wider learner travel review, and that a timetable will be shared with the committee when it's available. Obviously, I'm sure, Minister, you will know that committee members and other Members in this Chamber are really keen for that to come to light, so we'll be eagerly awaiting that, and we will be monitoring that very closely. Another issue was around data, and Vikki Howells mentioned, I think, Professor Ann John's quote, which is, 'What gets counted matters', and that is a really key point. I think Heledd and Vikki - well, Vikki shared her experience in a pastoral role in her previous work. That was really helpful to hear. And I think even the Minister's response, talking about some people feeling that 90 per cent of attendance was a good statistic. You know when you're at school, you hear '90 per cent', and some people think that is good, and you can understand. So, I think how we look at this data is really important, and behind that, as well, which I think Vikki had mentioned too. We'd also heard around the importance of family engagement officers and the incredible work that they do. Many Members mentioned that, as well as the Minister touching on the importance of community-focused schools. And we do know that schools can't solve all the problems, which is what Professor Ann John told us, but it is about the school climate, and there are some things that we can do and affect. I'd just like to touch on Jenny's point around the nurturing environments that schools can be. It is so important, and it is easier to attain in a primary school setting than a secondary school setting, but we have to work really hard to make sure that those nurturing environments are there for our young people. Heledd mentioned how every day lost widens the attainment gap, and that is so important, and that's why we as a committee felt that this report was so important and this piece of work is so important, and we will be monitoring this as we go on. So, I think, Deputy Llywydd, just to say that I believe we all have a role to play - not just schools, local authorities or the Welsh Government, but all of us here as elected politicians and active citizens in our communities - to reinforce those positive benefits of school attendance. It was really clear to us in our evidence that the carrot will be far more useful than the stick in terms of improving school attendance. And as a committee, we will continue to monitor progress on this important issue, and we look forward to seeing the outcome of the Welsh Government's review of attendance policy and guidance later this year, and I'd just like to say, once again, thank you to everybody who has contributed to this inquiry and for the debate today. Diolch.

Diolch, Ddirprwy Lywydd. Diolch i bob Aelod sydd wedi cyfrannu at y ddadl heddiw ac am ymateb y Gweinidog. Hoffwn hefyd gofnodi fy niolch i'n tîm clercio rhagorol, ein hymchwilwyr a'n tîm allgymorth sydd wedi ein cynorthwyo'n fawr fel pwyllgor. Yn amlwg mae yna uchelgais ar y cyd yma i sicrhau bod plant a phobl ifanc yn gallu mynychu'r ysgol ac ymgysylltu â gweithgareddau ysgol gymaint â phosibl. Ni ellir tanbrisio effaith absenoldeb o'r ysgol ar bobl ifanc. Rydym wedi clywed heddiw ei fod yn cael effaith ar iechyd meddwl a llesiant yn ogystal â chyrhaeddiad addysgol. Rydym wedi clywed gan yr Aelodau heddiw, gan gynnwys Tom Giffard, a ddywedodd am y pandemig a sut mae hwnnw wedi effeithio ar blant a phobl ifanc mewn sawl ffordd yn dilyn cau ysgolion a newid patrymau gwaith i rieni, ac rydym hefyd wedi clywed sut mae wedi newid agweddau tuag at bresenoldeb yn yr ysgol. Wedi dweud hyn, hoffwn gydnabod y bydd yna rai plant a phobl ifanc yn ei chael yn arbennig o heriol cynnal presenoldeb rheolaidd yn yr ysgol, ac fe allai fod amryw o resymau am hynny, a rhai ohonynt y tu hwnt i'w rheolaeth, megis salwch. Yn yr achosion hyn dylem wneud popeth yn ein gallu i helpu plant a phobl ifanc i gymryd rhan mor llawn â phosibl mewn modd cefnogol. Ond fel y dywedodd Laura Jones yn gynharach, mae'n rhaid inni ei gwneud mor hawdd â phosibl i blant a phobl ifanc fynychu'r ysgol. Mae'r Aelodau wedi cyffwrdd â nifer o bynciau. Rwy'n credu bod un o'r prif bwyntiau yn ymwneud â phroblemau teithio gan ddysgwyr. Rwy'n credu bod Laura, Heledd a Vikki yn enwedig wedi crybwyll hynny. Dyna oedd ein hargymhelliad 3 - ein bod eisiau gweld dull sy'n canolbwyntio ar y dysgwr yn hytrach na phenderfyniadau sy'n cael eu llywio gan gostau mewn perthynas â theithio gan ddysgwyr. Rydym yn ymwybodol iawn o'r pwysau ariannol sydd ar awdurdodau lleol, a dyna pam yr argymhellodd y pwyllgor fod Llywodraeth Cymru yn sicrhau bod gan awdurdodau lleol ddigon o gyllid i gyflawni hyn. Ond rydym eisiau gweld Llywodraeth Cymru yn mabwysiadu dull radical yn y mater hwn, ac rydym eisiau iddo chwilio am atebion arloesol i'r mater anodd a hirsefydlog hwn. Er gwybodaeth i'r Aelodau, y tu hwnt i'r ymchwiliad hwn, mae'r pwyllgor wedi ysgrifennu at y Dirprwy Weinidog Newid Hinsawdd yn ddiweddar, yn gofyn am ddiweddariad ar yr adolygiad teithio gan ddysgwyr. Dywedodd y Dirprwy Weinidog fod gwaith yn mynd rhagddo ar hyn o bryd ar gynllunio'r adolygiad teithio gan ddysgwyr ehangach, ac y bydd amserlen yn cael ei rhannu gyda'r pwyllgor pan fydd ar gael. Yn amlwg, rwy'n siŵr, Weinidog, y byddwch yn gwybod bod aelodau'r pwyllgor ac Aelodau eraill yn y Siambr hon yn awyddus iawn i weld hwnnw, felly byddwn yn aros yn eiddgar amdano, a byddwn yn ei fonitro'n drylwyr. Mater arall oedd data, a nododd Vikki Howells, rwy'n credu, ddyfyniad yr Athro Ann John, sef, 'mai'r hyn sy'n cael ei gyfrif sydd o bwys', ac mae hwnnw'n bwynt allweddol. Rwy'n credu bod Heledd a Vikki - wel, rhannodd Vikki ei phrofiad mewn rôl fugeiliol yn ei gwaith blaenorol. Roedd yn gymorth mawr i glywed hynny, a hyd yn oed ymateb y Gweinidog, pan soniodd am rai pobl yn teimlo bod presenoldeb o 90 y cant yn ystadegyn da. Pan ydych yn yr ysgol, rydych yn clywed '90 y cant', ac mae rhai pobl yn meddwl bod hwnnw'n ystadegyn da, a gallwch ddeall hynny. Felly, rwy'n credu bod y modd yr edrychwn ar y data hwn yn bwysig iawn, a thu ôl i hynny, ac rwy'n credu bod Vikki wedi sôn am hynny hefyd. Clywsom hefyd am bwysigrwydd swyddogion ymgysylltu â theuluoedd a'r gwaith anhygoel y maent yn ei wneud. Soniodd nifer o'r Aelodau, gan gynnwys y Gweinidog, am bwysigrwydd ysgolion bro. Ac rydym yn gwybod na all ysgolion ddatrys yr holl broblemau, sef yr hyn a ddywedodd yr Athro Ann John wrthym, ond mae'n ymwneud â hinsawdd yr ysgol, ac mae yna rai pethau y gallwn eu gwneud ac effeithio arnynt. Hoffwn grybwyll pwynt Jenny ynglŷn â sut y gall ysgolion fod yn amgylcheddau meithringar. Mae mor bwysig, ac mae'n haws i'w gyflawni mewn ysgol gynradd nag mewn ysgol uwchradd, ond mae'n rhaid inni weithio'n galed iawn i wneud yn siŵr fod yr amgylcheddau meithringar hynny yno i'n pobl ifanc. Soniodd Heledd sut mae pob diwrnod sy'n cael ei golli yn lledu'r bwlch cyrhaeddiad, ac mae hynny mor bwysig, a dyna pam y teimlem ni fel pwyllgor fod yr adroddiad hwn mor bwysig a'r gwaith hwn mor bwysig, a byddwn yn monitro hyn wrth inni fwrw ymlaen. Felly, Ddirprwy Lywydd, hoffwn ddweud fy mod yn credu bod gan bob un ohonom rôl i'w chwarae - nid ysgolion, awdurdodau lleol neu Lywodraeth Cymru yn unig, ond pob un ohonom ni yma fel gwleidyddion etholedig a dinasyddion gweithredol yn ein cymunedau - i atgyfnerthu manteision cadarnhaol presenoldeb yn yr ysgol. Roedd yn amlwg iawn i ni yn ein tystiolaeth y bydd yr abwyd yn llawer mwy defnyddiol na'r ffon wrth geisio gwella presenoldeb yn yr ysgol. Ac fel pwyllgor, byddwn yn parhau i fonitro cynnydd ar y mater pwysig hwn, ac edrychwn ymlaen at weld canlyniad adolygiad Llywodraeth Cymru o'r polisi presenoldeb a chanllawiau yn ddiweddarach eleni, a hoffwn ddiolch, unwaith eto, i bawb sydd wedi cyfrannu at yr ymchwiliad hwn ac am y ddadl heddiw. Diolch.

The proposal is to note the committee's report. Does any Member object? There is no objection, and therefore the motion is agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Y cwestiwn yw: a ddylid nodi adroddiad y pwyllgor? A oes unrhyw Aelod yn gwrthwynebu? Does dim gwrthwynebiad, felly derbynnir y cynnig yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 12.36.

Item 6 is next, and it's the Welsh Conservatives debate on free ports. I call on Paul Davies to move the motion.

Eitem 6 sydd nesaf, dadl y Ceidwadwyr Cymraeg ar borthladdoedd rhydd. Galwaf ar Paul Davies i wneud y cynnig.

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd, and I move the motion tabled in the name of my colleague, Darren Millar. It gives me great pleasure to lead a debate on the benefits of free ports and to again highlight the excellent bids that have been submitted from all parts of Wales. We will be voting against the two amendments tabled, and I am disappointed that they have been tabled in the first place, as they seek to delete our original motion. I was hoping to get cross-party support on this matter. Now, Members will know that applications have closed for bidders interested in establishing a free port in Wales, and a decision is due shortly on the winning site. Indeed, I hope that more than one bid is successful and that Wales will enjoy multiple free ports across the country. Now, the UK Government's free-port programme is a key component of its levelling-up agenda and it's part of the Government's efforts to help to build back better and drive economic growth, post pandemic. I give way to the Member for Ogmore.

Diolch, Ddirprwy Lywydd, ac rwy'n gwneud y cynnig a gyflwynwyd yn enw fy nghyd-Aelod, Darren Millar. Mae'n bleser mawr gennyf arwain dadl ar fanteision porthladdoedd rhydd a thynnu sylw unwaith eto at y ceisiadau rhagorol a gyflwynwyd o bob rhan o Gymru. Byddwn yn pleidleisio yn erbyn y ddau welliant a gyflwynwyd, ac rwy'n siomedig eu bod wedi'u cyflwyno yn y lle cyntaf, gan eu bod yn ceisio dileu ein cynnig gwreiddiol. Roeddwn wedi gobeithio cael cefnogaeth drawsbleidiol i'r mater hwn. Nawr, bydd yr Aelodau'n gwybod bod ceisiadau wedi cau ar gyfer cynigwyr sydd â diddordeb mewn sefydlu porthladd rhydd yng Nghymru, a disgwylir penderfyniad cyn bo hir ar y safle buddugol. Yn wir, rwy'n gobeithio y bydd mwy nag un cais yn llwyddiannus ac y bydd gan Gymru sawl porthladd rhydd ledled y wlad. Nawr, mae rhaglen porthladdoedd rhydd Llywodraeth y DU yn rhan allweddol o'i hagenda ffyniant bro ac yn rhan o ymdrechion y Llywodraeth i helpu i ailgodi'n gryfach ac ysgogi twf economaidd ar ôl y pandemig. Ildiaf i'r Aelod dros Ogwr.

Thank you for giving way so early in your contribution. I just wanted to pick up on the issue of cross-party support. As you know, there are Members like myself, David Rees and others, who have spoken very much in favour of developing the potential of these. I think the challenge here is that you can't get away from the fact that there are some real difficulties with the principle of free ports and everything that comes with them, and the impact of that on other areas. There are disadvantages to free ports as well. So, whilst we support strongly what we can now get out of this and want to work with you on this, don't mistake that for cross-party support for the idea of free ports, per se. It is something that your party is firmly behind; I would say that there's a more strategic way that we could do the same thing.

Diolch am ildio mor fuan yn eich cyfraniad. Hoffwn ymateb i'r sôn am fater cefnogaeth drawsbleidiol. Fel y gwyddoch, mae Aelodau fel fi, David Rees ac eraill wedi siarad o blaid datblygu potensial y rhain. Credaf mai'r her yma yw na allwch ddianc rhag y ffaith bod yna anawsterau gwirioneddol gyda'r egwyddor o borthladd rhydd a phopeth sydd ynghlwm wrthynt, ac effaith hynny ar ardaloedd eraill. Mae anfanteision i borthladdoedd rhydd hefyd. Felly, er ein bod yn cefnogi'n gryf yr hyn y gallem ei gael o hyn nawr ac yn awyddus i weithio gyda chi ar hyn, peidiwch â chamgymryd hynny am gefnogaeth drawsbleidiol i'r syniad o borthladdoedd rhydd fel y cyfryw. Mae'n rhywbeth y mae eich plaid yn ei gefnogi'n gryf; byddwn i'n dweud bod yna ffordd fwy strategol y gallem wneud yr un peth.

Well, the Member needs to read our motion, because the original motion recognises that free ports are an important aspect of developing our economy. And the Member surely recognises that the original motion is not controversial in any sense and merely seeks to demonstrate support for the free-port programme from this Senedd. It certainly doesn't warrant an attempt to delete any part of it. From the outset, the UK Government has made it clear that the free-port model has three distinct objectives. The first of those is for free ports to be established as national hubs for global trade and investment, and we know that, from the free-ports programme annual report last year, there is evidence of new investment in free-port areas. For example, free-port status in Humber has enabled the company Pensana to secure a multimillion-pound investment to establish Europe's first rare earth processing hub at Saltend, which is expected to represent around 5 per cent of the world market by 2025. That hub will produce critical components for electric vehicles and offshore equipment. Indeed, that hub has a crucial role in helping establish an independent magnet metal supply chain for the UK and beyond. Now, Members are aware that free ports are economic areas where tax relief is available for businesses, and there are plenty of other economic incentives for businesses in these areas. Businesses in free-port areas can enjoy enhanced capital allowances, in addition to employer national insurance contributions rates relief and business rates relief. There are also a range of customs benefits for free-port areas that includes simplified declarations and duty deferment on imported goods. And so there are a range of economic benefits for businesses in free-port areas to help them become thriving trade and investment hubs. Now, the second objective of the free-port programme is to create hotbeds for innovation by focusing on private and public sector investment in research and development. Free ports have developed ambitious plans to innovate, and many are playing an integral role in supporting the UK Government's target to reach net zero by 2050. Indeed, in the east midlands, the free port is using part of its £25 million of seed capital funding to establish a hydrogen skills academy. The academy, which is backed by several universities, is due to open later this year and will be the UK's first practical industry-based training centre, putting the east midlands at the forefront of the UK's net-zero ambition. Free ports, by their design, are environments that help bring innovators together to collaborate in new ways and develop and trial new ideas and technologies, and it's exactly that sort of collaboration and innovation that I'm excited to see at Wales's free ports in the future. I've long referred to my own constituency of Preseli Pembrokeshire as being the energy capital of Wales, and should the Celtic free-port bid be successful, I have no doubt that we'll see some very exciting innovation taking place along the south Wales coast. One such area is floating offshore wind, and we know from the consortium's vision that a successful bid for a Celtic free port will accelerate inward investment in new manufacturing facilities to support the roll-out of floating offshore wind in the Celtic sea. We recently debated just how important offshore renewable energy, and particularly floating offshore wind, can be in generating low-cost, clean energy, and so I hope Members will support this important campaign. And in north Wales, let us not forget the excellent campaign for a Welsh free port in Ynys Môn, again with a vision to develop a hub for sustainable energy, which would also support the UK on its net-zero journey. The third objective of a free-port programme is to promote regeneration through the creation of high-skilled jobs. Free ports have the potential to create widespread opportunities in terms of job creation, and according to free-port estimates, over 41,000 direct jobs would be created in Teeside, over 28,000 jobs in the East Midlands, and over 10,000 jobs in the Liverpool City Region. Some of these job estimates were made in early 2022, and of course, each area is different, but I just wanted to give Members an idea of the significant level of job creation that could be seen in Wales if any of the bids are successful. Of course, the regeneration of an area is largely dependent on ensuring that local people have the skills to access the opportunities provided by the free port, and that's why free ports have skills and workforce strategies as part of their business cases; strategies that are updated regularly to ensure that they're effective and delivering as intended. Dirprwy Lywydd, it's my hope that the upcoming announcement from UK Government and the Welsh Government confirms that multiple Welsh free ports are successful, so that the benefits of free ports can be felt throughout the country. Free ports have the ability to transform our communities, and I know that Members will want to set out their stalls for why bids in their areas should be successful. The discussions I've had with key stakeholders involved in the Celtic free-port bid continue to be positive and enthusiastic, and I know from my conversations with Members representing other parts of Wales that they, too, have been enthused by the work that has gone on in developing these bids. Of course, key to the success of any free port is the level of support provided by the UK Government and the Welsh Government. The UK Government has already provided a support package to raise awareness of British free ports with investors, and to highlight the opportunities that there are for investment into British free ports. My understanding is that, once a free port is established, the Department for International Trade will support it with access to its investment and export support services, and that is very welcome. Of course, if a Welsh free-port bid is successful, then it would also have access to these investment and export support services; and more than that, I hope that they'd have access to Welsh Government after-care support too. Therefore, perhaps in responding to this debate, the Minister can tell us what plans the Welsh Government has to support Welsh free ports once they are up and running, and how it intends to work with the Department for International Trade in relation to after-care support. In the longer term, free ports should be in a position to attract investment and grow international trade independently, but in the very short term, the Welsh Government has a role here, alongside the Department for International Trade, to promote free-port opportunities to global investors. Now, I appreciate that the Minister is not going to give much away about which site or sites are successful, and so, today's debate really is for us to hear more about the three Welsh bids that are currently being considered and learn more about the role that the Welsh Government will be taking in promoting any Welsh free ports in the future. I've already mentioned the Anglesey bid and the Celtic free-port bid, but there is also a regional bid for south-east Wales too. And so, on that note, I welcome Members' views on the development of a Welsh free port, as well as hearing more about the bids in their constituencies and regions. We can see the success of free ports in other parts of the UK, and it's important that Wales is not left behind. Free ports can help provide opportunities for generations to come, and so, on that note, I ask Members to support our motion today and show their support for the free-port programme and the opportunities that it presents for Wales. Diolch.

Wel, mae angen i'r Aelod ddarllen ein cynnig, gan fod y cynnig gwreiddiol yn cydnabod bod porthladdoedd rhydd yn agwedd bwysig ar ddatblygu ein heconomi. A rhaid bod yr Aelod yn gallu gweld nad yw'r cynnig gwreiddiol yn ddadleuol mewn unrhyw ystyr, ac mai ei unig nod yw ceisio dangos cefnogaeth gan y Senedd hon i'r rhaglen porthladdoedd rhydd. Yn sicr, nid yw'n cyfiawnhau ymgais i ddileu unrhyw ran ohono. O'r cychwyn cyntaf, mae Llywodraeth y DU wedi dweud yn glir fod gan y model porthladdoedd rhydd dri amcan penodol. Y cyntaf o'r rheini yw sefydlu porthladdoedd rhydd fel hybiau cenedlaethol ar gyfer buddsoddi a masnachu byd-eang, a gwyddom, o adroddiad blynyddol y rhaglen porthladdoedd rhydd y llynedd, fod tystiolaeth i'w chael o fuddsoddiad newydd mewn ardaloedd porthladd rhydd. Er enghraifft, mae statws porthladd rhydd yn Humber wedi galluogi cwmni Pensana i sicrhau buddsoddiad gwerth miliynau o bunnoedd i sefydlu hyb prosesu prinfwynau cyntaf Ewrop yn Saltend, y disgwylir iddo gynrychioli oddeutu 5 y cant o farchnad y byd erbyn 2025. Bydd yr hyb hwnnw'n cynhyrchu cydrannau hanfodol ar gyfer cerbydau trydan ac offer alltraeth. Yn wir, mae gan yr hyb rôl hollbwysig yn helpu i sefydlu cadwyn gyflenwi metel magnetau annibynnol ar gyfer y DU a thu hwnt. Nawr, fe ŵyr yr Aelodau fod porthladdoedd rhydd yn ardaloedd economaidd lle mae rhyddhad treth ar gael i fusnesau, ac mae digon o gymelliadau economaidd eraill i fusnesau yn yr ardaloedd hyn. Gall busnesau mewn ardaloedd porthladd rhydd fwynhau lwfansau cyfalaf uwch, yn ogystal â rhyddhad ardrethi ar gyfraniadau yswiriant gwladol cyflogwyr a rhyddhad ardrethi busnes. Ceir amrywiaeth o fanteision tollau mewn ardaloedd porthladd rhydd hefyd, gan gynnwys datganiadau symlach a thollau gohiriedig ar nwyddau a fewnforir. Ac felly, mae amrywiaeth o fanteision economaidd i fusnesau mewn ardaloedd porthladd rhydd i'w helpu i ddod yn hybiau masnach a buddsoddi ffyniannus. Nawr, ail amcan y rhaglen porthladdoedd rhydd yw creu mannau gwych ar gyfer arloesi drwy ganolbwyntio ar fuddsoddiad y sector preifat a'r sector cyhoeddus mewn ymchwil a datblygu. Mae porthladdoedd rhydd wedi datblygu cynlluniau uchelgeisiol i arloesi, ac mae llawer yn chwarae rôl allweddol wrth gefnogi targed Llywodraeth y DU i gyflawni sero net erbyn 2050. Yn wir, yn nwyrain canolbarth Lloegr, mae'r porthladd rhydd yn defnyddio rhan o'i £25 miliwn o gyllid cyfalaf sbarduno i sefydlu academi sgiliau hydrogen. Mae disgwyl i'r academi, sy'n cael ei chefnogi gan nifer o brifysgolion, agor yn nes ymlaen eleni, a hon fydd canolfan hyfforddi ymarferol gyntaf y diwydiant yn y DU, gan roi dwyrain canolbarth Lloegr ar flaen y gad o ran uchelgais sero net y DU. Mae porthladdoedd rhydd, yn eu hanfod, yn amgylcheddau sy'n helpu i ddod ag arloeswyr ynghyd i gydweithredu mewn ffyrdd newydd a datblygu a threialu syniadau a thechnolegau newydd, a dyma'r union fath o gydweithio ac arloesi rwy'n edrych ymlaen at ei weld ym mhorthladdoedd rhydd Cymru yn y dyfodol. Rwyf wedi cyfeirio ers tro at fy etholaeth i, Preseli Sir Benfro, fel prifddinas ynni Cymru, a phe bai cais y porthladd rhydd Celtaidd yn llwyddiannus, nid oes gennyf unrhyw amheuaeth y byddem yn gweld arloesi cyffrous iawn ar hyd arfordir de Cymru. Un maes o'r fath yw ynni gwynt arnofiol ar y môr, a gwyddom o weledigaeth y consortiwm y bydd cais llwyddiannus am borthladd rhydd Celtaidd yn cyflymu mewnfuddsoddiad mewn cyfleusterau gweithgynhyrchu newydd i gefnogi'r gwaith o greu prosiectau ynni gwynt arnofiol yn y môr Celtaidd. Buom yn dadlau'n ddiweddar ynglŷn â pha mor bwysig y gall ynni adnewyddadwy ar y môr fod i gynhyrchu ynni glân a rhad, yn enwedig ynni gwynt arnofiol ar y môr, ac felly rwy'n gobeithio y bydd yr Aelodau'n cefnogi'r ymgyrch bwysig hon. Ac yn y gogledd, gadewch inni beidio ag anghofio'r ymgyrch ragorol dros borthladd rhydd Cymru yn Ynys Môn, gyda gweledigaeth unwaith eto i ddatblygu hyb ar gyfer ynni cynaliadwy, a fyddai hefyd yn cefnogi'r DU ar ei thaith tuag at sero net. Trydydd amcan y rhaglen porthladdoedd rhydd yw hybu adfywio drwy greu swyddi medrus iawn. Mae gan borthladdoedd rhydd botensial i greu cyfleoedd eang o ran creu swyddi, ac yn ôl amcangyfrifon ar gyfer y porthladdoedd rhydd, byddai dros 41,000 o swyddi uniongyrchol yn cael eu creu yn Teesside, dros 28,000 o swyddi yn Nwyrain Canolbarth Lloegr, a thros 10,000 o swyddi yn Ninas-ranbarth Lerpwl. Gwnaethpwyd rhai o'r amcangyfrifon swyddi hyn yn gynnar yn 2022, ac wrth gwrs, mae pob ardal yn wahanol, ond roeddwn am roi syniad i'r Aelodau o'r nifer sylweddol o swyddi y gellid eu creu yng Nghymru pe bai unrhyw un o'r ceisiadau'n llwyddiannus. Wrth gwrs, mae adfywio ardal yn dibynnu i raddau helaeth ar sicrhau bod gan bobl leol sgiliau i gael mynediad at y cyfleoedd a ddarperir gan y porthladd rhydd, a dyna pam fod gan borthladdoedd rhydd strategaethau sgiliau a gweithlu yn rhan o'u hachosion busnes; strategaethau sy'n cael eu diweddaru'n rheolaidd i sicrhau eu bod yn effeithiol ac yn cyflawni yn ôl y bwriad. Ddirprwy Lywydd, fy ngobaith yw y bydd y cyhoeddiad sydd ar y ffordd gan Lywodraeth y DU a Llywodraeth Cymru yn cadarnhau bod sawl un o borthladdoedd rhydd Cymru yn llwyddiannus, fel y gellir teimlo manteision porthladdoedd rhydd ledled y wlad. Mae gan borthladdoedd rhydd allu i drawsnewid ein cymunedau, a gwn y bydd yr Aelodau'n awyddus i nodi pam y dylai ceisiadau yn eu hardaloedd fod yn llwyddiannus. Mae'r trafodaethau a gefais gyda rhanddeiliaid allweddol sy'n ymwneud â chais y porthladd rhydd Celtaidd yn parhau i fod yn gadarnhaol ac yn frwdfrydig, a gwn o fy sgyrsiau gydag Aelodau sy'n cynrychioli rhannau eraill o Gymru eu bod hwythau hefyd wedi cael eu hysbrydoli gan y gwaith a wnaed ar ddatblygu'r ceisiadau hyn. Wrth gwrs, mae lefel y cymorth a ddarperir gan Lywodraeth y DU a Llywodraeth Cymru yn allweddol i lwyddiant unrhyw borthladd rhydd. Mae Llywodraeth y DU eisoes wedi darparu pecyn cymorth i godi ymwybyddiaeth o borthladdoedd rhydd Prydain gyda buddsoddwyr, ac i dynnu sylw at y cyfleoedd sydd ar gael i fuddsoddi ym mhorthladdoedd rhydd Prydain. Wedi i borthladd rhydd gael ei sefydlu, fy nealltwriaeth i yw y bydd yr Adran Masnach Ryngwladol yn ei gefnogi gyda mynediad at eu gwasanaethau cymorth buddsoddiadau ac allforio, ac mae hynny i'w groesawu'n fawr. Wrth gwrs, pe bai cais porthladd rhydd Cymreig yn llwyddiannus, byddai'n gallu defnyddio'r gwasanaethau cymorth buddsoddiadau ac allforio hyn; ac yn fwy na hynny, rwy'n gobeithio y byddai cymorth ôl-ofal ar gael iddynt gan Lywodraeth Cymru hefyd. Felly, wrth ymateb i'r ddadl hon, efallai y gall y Gweinidog ddweud wrthym pa gynlluniau sydd gan Lywodraeth Cymru i gefnogi porthladdoedd rhydd Cymru pan fyddant ar waith, a sut mae'n bwriadu gweithio gyda'r Adran Masnach Ryngwladol mewn perthynas â chymorth ôl-ofal. Yn y tymor hwy, dylai porthladdoedd rhydd fod mewn sefyllfa i ddenu buddsoddiad a thyfu masnach ryngwladol yn annibynnol, ond yn y tymor byr iawn, mae gan Lywodraeth Cymru rôl yma, ochr yn ochr â'r Adran Masnach Ryngwladol, i hyrwyddo cyfleoedd porthladdoedd rhydd i fuddsoddwyr byd-eang. Nawr, rwy'n sylweddoli nad yw'r Gweinidog yn mynd i ddatgelu llawer ynghylch pa safle neu safleoedd sy'n llwyddiannus, ac felly, diben y ddadl heddiw mewn gwirionedd yw i ni glywed mwy am y tri chais o Gymru sy'n cael eu hystyried ar hyn o bryd, a dysgu mwy am y rôl y bydd Llywodraeth Cymru yn ei chwarae wrth hyrwyddo unrhyw borthladdoedd rhydd yng Nghymru yn y dyfodol. Rwyf eisoes wedi sôn am gais Ynys Môn a chais y porthladd rhydd Celtaidd, ond mae yna gais rhanbarthol ar gyfer de-ddwyrain Cymru hefyd. Ac felly, ar y nodyn hwnnw, rwy'n croesawu safbwyntiau'r Aelodau ar ddatblygu porthladd rhydd yng Nghymru, yn ogystal â chlywed mwy am y ceisiadau yn eu hetholaethau a'u rhanbarthau. Gallwn weld llwyddiant porthladdoedd rhydd mewn rhannau eraill o'r DU, ac mae'n bwysig nad yw Cymru'n cael ei gadael ar ôl. Gall porthladdoedd rhydd helpu i ddarparu cyfleoedd ar gyfer cenedlaethau i ddod, ac felly, ar y nodyn hwnnw, gofynnaf i'r Aelodau gefnogi ein cynnig heddiw a dangos eu cefnogaeth i'r rhaglen porthladdoedd rhydd a'r cyfleoedd y mae'n eu cynnig i Gymru. Diolch.

I have selected the two amendments to the motion. If amendment 1 is agreed, amendment 2 will be deselected. I call on Luke Fletcher to move amendment 1, tabled in the name of Siân Gwenllian.

Rwyf wedi dethol y ddau welliant i'r cynnig. Os derbynnir gwelliant 1, caiff gwelliant 2 ei ddad-ddethol. Galwaf ar Luke Fletcher i gynnig gwelliant 1, a gyflwynwyd yn enw Siân Gwenllian.

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd, and I'm afraid my natural cynical and sceptical way of viewing the world might bring down the jovial contribution by the economy spokesperson for the Conservative Party, but I don't think it will surprise Members to learn that I'm not a supporter of the free-port concept. There are a number of ways that we can achieve what my colleague set out, and I am taking a lot of what we're being told about the bids with handfuls of salt. When people are bidding for support, they often fall into the trap of telling people what they want to hear, and I think we all need to be aware of that, and we all need to scrutinise what we hear. The whole free-port concept is yet another policy that we've tried before, and which has had little success. Let's be clear: the free-port concept is trickle-down economics; something that many Members in this Chamber lambasted Liz Truss for just a few months ago; something that every group, bar one, in the Senedd attributes as a failure of Thatcherism. Now, turning to some of the arguments in favour, one of the key arguments is the creation of jobs and, on the face it, great, but I do think the numbers touted are incredibly optimistic at best and I would ask how many of those would be new jobs and not jobs displaced from elsewhere. To be fair, the bids have recognised this risk and have said that they will focus on new job creation, but I've yet to receive anything other than a verbal reassurance that guarantees that displacement won't happen. The reality will be that it will happen, and it will be to the economic detriment of areas outside of any designated free-port zone. We only need to look at enterprise zones. Forty-one per cent of jobs in enterprise zones, established in the 1980s, were jobs relocated from elsewhere in the UK. And, by the way, I was told to think of free ports as enterprise zones rather than traditional free ports, which only emphasises the risks of displacement in my view. Now, I note that the terms of any bid here in Wales will be different to England. There are requirements for bids to recognise trade unions and the principles of social partnership, collective bargaining and the rights of the worker. Again, it looks good on paper, but it's easy to say that all this will be respected in a bid. The proof will be once a bid is successful. Every time I've asked this question related to this element, be it to the Government or the bids themselves, all I get back is a verbal guarantee. When asked about mechanisms to deal with employers who breach these requirements and the mechanisms for monitoring them, the answers are far too vague to provide any comfort. The best I've had was that the benefits of being a part of that free-port area will be taken away from companies in breach. But let's think of the practicalities of this. The reason these companies are coming in the first place is so that they can benefit from the tax breaks. Remove these benefits and they'll no doubt threaten to leave - a story almost as old as time - taking all those jobs that we've been told they'll create with them. I'm not confident that any Government would be willing to lose that, especially if the company in question has a large workforce. So, in essence, the true power, yet again, will be with companies. When your support is based on job creation, of course you don't want to lose those jobs. That would be the reality and the Government, local authorities and free-port authority would be placed in an impossible situation. I'll close, Llywydd, by referring to something that all of us here in this Senedd, cross-party in this Chamber, support, or at least say we support, and that is retaining wealth within Wales. Wealth won't be retained in Wales through free ports; quite the opposite: it will flow out via its usual means and there will be no means of taxing the profits of those businesses operating within them - profits that Welsh workers will have made for those companies. We talk about building the Welsh economy through supporting Welsh enterprise, supporting local businesses, co-operatives - that's where investment and focus should be. Our way may take a while, but it's the more sustainable way and the way that will bring the most benefit to Welsh workers. I think the question we should all ask ourselves is whether or not we believe businesses should pay taxes and contribute to public services like everyone else, especially during a cost-of-living crisis. If your answer is 'yes', then, in my view, you have no business supporting free ports.

Diolch, Ddirprwy Lywydd, ac mae arnaf ofn y gallai fy ffordd naturiol sinigaidd ac amheus o edrych ar y byd daflu dŵr ar gyfraniad hwyliog llefarydd y Blaid Geidwadol ar yr economi, ond ni chredaf y bydd yn syndod i'r Aelodau glywed nad wyf yn cefnogi'r cysyniad o borthladd rhydd. Mae nifer o ffyrdd y gallwn gyflawni'r hyn a nododd fy nghyd-Aelod, ac rwy'n cymryd llawer o'r hyn a ddywedir wrthym am y ceisiadau gyda llond dwrn o halen. Pan fydd pobl yn gwneud cais am gymorth, maent yn aml yn syrthio i'r fagl o ddweud wrth bobl yr hyn y maent am ei glywed, a chredaf fod angen inni fod yn ymwybodol o hynny, ac mae angen i bob un ohonom graffu ar yr hyn a ddywedir wrthym. Mae'r cysyniad o borthladdoedd rhydd yn bolisi arall rydym wedi rhoi cynnig arno o'r blaen, ac nad yw wedi cael fawr o lwyddiant. Gadewch inni fod yn glir: economeg o'r brig i lawr yw'r cysyniad o borthladdoedd rhydd; rhywbeth y bu llawer o'r Aelodau yn y Siambr hon yn lambastio Liz Truss yn ei gylch ychydig fisoedd yn ôl; rhywbeth y mae pob grŵp, ac eithrio un, yn y Senedd yn ei ystyried yn un o fethiannau Thatcheriaeth. Nawr, i droi at rai o'r dadleuon o blaid, un o'r dadleuon allweddol yw creu swyddi, ac ar olwg gyntaf, gwych, ond credaf fod y niferoedd a grybwyllir yn ofnadwy o optimistaidd ar y gorau, a hoffwn ofyn faint o'r swyddi hynny a fyddai'n swyddi newydd yn hytrach na swyddi sy'n cael eu dadleoli o rywle arall. A bod yn deg, mae'r ceisiadau wedi cydnabod y risg hon ac wedi dweud y byddant yn canolbwyntio ar greu swyddi newydd, ond nid wyf wedi derbyn unrhyw beth eto heblaw sicrwydd ar lafar i warantu na fydd swyddi'n cael eu dadleoli. Y gwir amdani yw y bydd hynny'n digwydd, ac ar draul economi ardaloedd y tu allan i unrhyw barth porthladd rhydd dynodedig. Nid oes ond angen inni edrych ar ardaloedd menter. Roedd 41 y cant o swyddi mewn ardaloedd menter, a sefydlwyd yn y 1980au, yn swyddi a gafodd eu hadleoli o rywle arall yn y DU. Gyda llaw, dywedwyd wrthyf y dylwn feddwl am borthladdoedd rhydd fel ardaloedd menter yn hytrach na phorthladdoedd rhydd traddodiadol, sydd ond yn ategu'r perygl y bydd swyddi'n cael eu dadleoli, yn fy marn i. Nawr, nodaf y bydd telerau unrhyw gais yma yng Nghymru yn wahanol i Loegr. Mae gofynion i geisiadau gydnabod undebau llafur ac egwyddorion partneriaeth gymdeithasol, cydfargeinio a hawliau gweithwyr. Unwaith eto, mae'n edrych yn dda ar bapur, ond mae'n hawdd dweud y bydd hyn oll yn cael ei barchu mewn cais. Dim ond pan fydd cais yn llwyddiannus y gellir profi hynny. Bob tro y gofynnais y cwestiwn ynglŷn â'r elfen hon, boed hynny i'r Llywodraeth neu'r ceisiadau eu hunain, yr unig beth a gaf yw gwarant ar lafar. Pan ofynnir iddynt am fecanweithiau i ymdrin â chyflogwyr sy'n torri'r gofynion hyn a'r mecanweithiau ar gyfer eu monitro, mae'r atebion yn llawer rhy amwys i roi unrhyw gysur. Y gorau a gefais oedd y bydd cwmnïau sy'n torri amodau yn colli manteision bod yn rhan o ardal porthladd rhydd. Ond gadewch inni feddwl am ymarferoldeb hyn. Y rheswm pam fod y cwmnïau hyn yn dod yno yn y lle cyntaf yw er mwyn iddynt allu elwa o'r gostyngiadau treth. Os cewch chi wared ar y buddion hyn, heb os, byddant yn bygwth gadael - stori sydd bron mor hen ag amser - gan fynd â'r holl swyddi hynny y dywedir wrthym y byddant yn eu creu gyda hwy. Nid wyf yn hyderus y byddai unrhyw Lywodraeth yn fodlon colli hynny, yn enwedig os oes gan y cwmni dan sylw weithlu mawr. Felly, yn y bôn, bydd y gwir rym, unwaith eto, gan gwmnïau. Pan fydd eich cymorth yn seiliedig ar greu swyddi, wrth gwrs nad ydych am golli'r swyddi hynny. Dyna fyddai'r realiti, a byddai'r Llywodraeth, awdurdodau lleol ac awdurdod y porthladd rhydd yn cael eu rhoi mewn sefyllfa amhosibl. Rwyf am gloi, Lywydd, drwy gyfeirio at rywbeth y mae pob un ohonom yma yn y Senedd, yn drawsbleidiol yn y Siambr hon, yn ei gefnogi, neu o leiaf yn dweud ein bod yn ei gefnogi, sef cadw cyfoeth yng Nghymru. Ni fydd cyfoeth yn cael ei gadw yng Nghymru drwy borthladdoedd rhydd; i'r gwrthwyneb: bydd yn llifo allan drwy ei ddulliau arferol ac ni fydd unrhyw fodd o drethu elw'r busnesau sy'n gweithredu o'u mewn - elw y bydd gweithwyr Cymru wedi'i wneud i'r cwmnïau hynny. Rydym yn sôn am adeiladu economi Cymru drwy gefnogi mentergarwch Cymreig, cefnogi busnesau lleol, cwmnïau cydweithredol - dyna ble dylid buddsoddi a chanolbwyntio. Efallai y bydd ein ffordd ni'n cymryd amser, ond dyna'r ffordd fwy cynaliadwy a'r ffordd a fydd yn sicrhau'r budd mwyaf i weithwyr Cymru. Credaf mai'r cwestiwn y dylem ei ofyn i ni'n hunain yw a ydym yn credu y dylai busnesau dalu trethi a chyfrannu at wasanaethau cyhoeddus fel pawb arall ai peidio, yn enwedig yn ystod argyfwng costau byw. Os mai 'ydw' yw eich ateb, yn fy marn i, nid oes gennych unrhyw fusnes yn cefnogi porthladdoedd rhydd.

I call on the Minister for Economy to move formally amendment 2, tabled in the name of Lesley Griffiths.

Galwaf ar Weinidog yr Economi i gynnig yn ffurfiol welliant 2, a gyflwynwyd yn enw Lesley Griffiths.

Thank you so much to my colleague, Darren Millar, for bringing this important debate forward. Having spoken on the subject on quite a few occasions, I sincerely don't hold the same view as you, Luke Fletcher. In fact, I think free ports present a fantastic opportunity for Wales, energising the economy, creating high-quality jobs, and will drive investment forward, something I would have thought that everyone in this Chamber would have wanted to see in Wales, going forward. Now, whatever your view is on Brexit, there's no denying that this new trade opportunity simply wouldn't have been an option if we were still part of the European Union. Now, free ports have a reputation of ultimately regenerating communities, providing economic growth and creating much-needed high-skilled jobs for many people -

Diolch yn fawr iawn i fy nghyd-Aelod, Darren Millar, am gyflwyno'r ddadl bwysig hon. A minnau wedi siarad ar y pwnc droeon, gallaf ddweud yn ddiffuant nad wyf o'r un farn â chi, Luke Fletcher. A dweud y gwir, credaf fod porthladdoedd rhydd yn gyfle gwych i Gymru, gan y byddant yn bywiogi'r economi, yn creu swyddi o ansawdd uchel, ac yn ysgogi buddsoddiad, rhywbeth y byddwn wedi meddwl y byddai pawb yn y Siambr hon wedi bod yn awyddus i'w weld yng Nghymru, wrth symud ymlaen. Nawr, ni waeth beth fo'ch barn ar Brexit, ni ellir gwadu na fyddai'r cyfle masnach newydd hwn wedi bod yn opsiwn pe baem yn dal i fod yn rhan o'r Undeb Ewropeaidd. Nawr, mae gan borthladdoedd rhydd enw da am adfywio cymunedau yn y pen draw, gan ddarparu twf economaidd a chreu swyddi medrus iawn mawr eu hangen i lawer o bobl -

No. [ Laughter.] And since being a Member, I've had an immeasurable number of meetings and attended incalculable events with individuals, groups and organisations across Wales on their plight to get their bid approved and I must say that they've all been very impressive. I was delighted to hear that three exceptional Welsh free-port bids have been submitted and it's fantastic news for the country, with each presenting major benefits. It might sound a bit biased, but, as a regional Member for South Wales East, I'm sure no-one here will be surprised to know that I do have a soft spot for Newport's bid. Intricate details have been kept under wraps, but, from what I know, Newport's bid encompasses a string of underdeveloped employment sites across the region, including the Welsh Government-owned Cardiff Airport. Well, let's be honest, it needs all the help it can get. The bid, being led by Newport City Council, would, if successful, help entice more national and international business to the area, which will, in turn, mean thousands more jobs and training opportunities, not just for Newport residents, but people all across south-east Wales. I know my colleagues Samuel Kurtz and Paul Davies have the same level of enthusiasm and dedication for the Celtic free-port bid in their patch, which would create some 16,000 high-quality jobs - green jobs, in fact - and see some £5.5 billion-worth of new investment. Having met with the group behind the Celtic free-port bid, and having seen their presentation, it was clear to me within minutes that they have some truly wonderful plans in place that will greatly benefit local residents and enterprise. I've also had countless conversations and worked with my colleague Virginia Crosbie, MP for Ynys Môn, who has been singing from the rooftops for the Anglesey free-port bid from day one - now, more than anyone else I've seen, particularly on this subject. I would say that the Anglesey free-port bid would attract £1 billion in investment and create up to 13,000 new highly paid jobs on the island, so, believe me when I say I know only too well just how passionate all of my colleagues are when it comes to creating free ports in their areas. In this post-Brexit era, free ports can play a pivotal role for the UK, as our Prime Minister Rishi Sunak outlined recently. He actually said, and I quote: 'Foreign Trade Zones are flourishing all around the world - except in the EU. Post-Brexit they could play an important role in signalling Britain's openness to the world, as well as reconnecting the nation with its proud maritime history.' The Prime Minister has gone on to say also what my colleague Paul Davies had said in his opening, that free ports would come with numerous benefits such as 'simpler planning', 'cheaper customs - with favourable tariffs, VAT or duties', and lower taxes as well, and, I quote, 'tax breaks to encourage construction, private investment and job creation', something that we all want in Wales. There's no denying that all three bids are impressive and would deliver truly remarkable benefits to Wales. The UK Government has committed £26 million to create a free port in Wales, and I am pleased to see that Ministers here in Wales and in London are not just talking the talk, but they're also walking the walk, by working together to actually make this a reality. I am particularly pleased to hear that a second free port could be on the cards if a truly exceptional proposal is put forward, something emphasised to me when I met with the then levelling-up Secretary Michael Gove, and it's a message I've shared with all bidders that I've met to date. Personally, I'll continue to beat the drum for two free ports to be created in Wales, because they will no doubt be a real shot in the arm for the Welsh economy and bring countless benefits to us all. I sincerely hope the Welsh Government will continue to work closely with the UK Government and collaborate effectively to deliver these exciting proposals, which will undoubtedly bring outstanding economic benefits to Wales. Deputy Presiding Officer, I am genuinely keeping both of my fingers crossed for two free ports here in Wales, and, just like all of my colleagues from all corners of Wales, look forward to hearing the free-port announcement being made soon.

Na wnaf. [ Chwerthin.] Ac ers imi fod yn Aelod, rwyf wedi cael nifer di-rif o gyfarfodydd ac wedi mynychu llu o ddigwyddiadau gydag unigolion, grwpiau a sefydliadau ledled Cymru fel rhan o'u hymdrech i sicrhau bod eu cais yn cael ei gymeradwyo ac mae'n rhaid imi ddweud bod pob un ohonynt wedi creu cryn argraff arnaf. Roeddwn yn falch iawn o glywed bod tri chais porthladd rhydd ardderchog wedi'u cyflwyno yng Nghymru, ac mae hynny'n newyddion gwych i'r wlad, gyda phob un yn darparu manteision sylweddol. Efallai fod hyn yn swnio braidd yn rhagfarnllyd, ond fel Aelod rhanbarthol dros Ddwyrain De Cymru, rwy'n siŵr na fydd yn syndod i unrhyw un yma fod gennyf le yn fy nghalon i gais Casnewydd. Mae'r manylion cymhleth wedi'u cadw'n gyfrinachol, ond o'r hyn y gwn i, mae cais Casnewydd yn cynnwys cyfres o safleoedd cyflogaeth sydd heb eu datblygu'n ddigonol ar draws y rhanbarth, gan gynnwys Maes Awyr Caerdydd, sy'n eiddo i Lywodraeth Cymru. Wel, gadewch inni fod yn onest, mae hwnnw angen yr holl gymorth y gall ei gael. Pe bai'n llwyddiannus, byddai'r cais, sy'n cael ei arwain gan Gyngor Dinas Casnewydd, yn helpu i ddenu mwy o fusnes cenedlaethol a rhyngwladol i'r ardal, a fydd, yn ei dro, yn golygu miloedd yn rhagor o swyddi a chyfleoedd hyfforddi, nid yn unig i drigolion Casnewydd, ond i bobl ledled de-ddwyrain Cymru. Gwn fod gan fy nghyd-Aelodau, Samuel Kurtz a Paul Davies, yr un lefel o frwdfrydedd ac ymroddiad i gais y porthladd rhydd Celtaidd yn eu hardal hwythau, a fyddai'n creu oddeutu 16,000 o swyddi o ansawdd uchel - swyddi gwyrdd, mewn gwirionedd - ac yn arwain at oddeutu £5.5 biliwn o fuddsoddiad newydd. Ar ôl cyfarfod â'r grŵp y tu ôl i gais y porthladd rhydd Celtaidd, ac ar ôl gweld eu cyflwyniad, roedd yn amlwg i mi o fewn munudau fod ganddynt gynlluniau gwirioneddol wych yn eu lle a fydd o fudd mawr i drigolion a mentergarwch lleol. Rwyf hefyd wedi cael sgyrsiau di-rif ac wedi gweithio gyda fy nghyd-bleidwraig Virginia Crosbie, AS Ynys Môn, sydd wedi bod yn canu clodydd cais porthladd rhydd Ynys Môn ers y cychwyn cyntaf - yn fwy nag unrhyw un arall rwyf wedi'i weld, yn enwedig ar y pwnc hwn. Hoffwn ddweud y byddai cais porthladd rhydd Ynys Môn yn denu £1 biliwn o fuddsoddiad ac yn creu hyd at 13,000 o swyddi newydd ar gyflogau uchel ar yr ynys, felly credwch fi pan ddywedaf fy mod yn gwybod yn iawn pa mor angerddol yw fy holl gyd-bleidwyr mewn perthynas â chreu porthladdoedd rhydd yn eu hardaloedd. Yn y cyfnod ôl-Brexit hwn, gall porthladdoedd rhydd chwarae rhan hollbwysig ar gyfer y DU, fel yr amlinellodd ein Prif Weinidog Rishi Sunak yn ddiweddar. Dywedodd hyn: 'Mae Parthau Masnach Tramor yn ffynnu ledled y byd - ac eithrio yn yr UE. Ar ôl Brexit, gallent chwarae rhan bwysig yn dangos pa mor agored yw Prydain i'r byd, yn ogystal ag ailgysylltu'r genedl â'i hanes morwrol balch.' Aeth Prif Weinidog y DU ymlaen i ddweud yr hyn a ddywedodd fy nghyd-Aelod Paul Davies yn ei agoriad, y byddai porthladdoedd rhydd yn darparu nifer o fanteision megis 'cynllunio symlach', 'tollau rhatach-gyda thariffau, TAW neu dollau ffafriol', a threthi is hefyd, 'gostyngiadau treth i annog adeiladu, buddsoddi preifat a chreu swyddi', rhywbeth y mae pob un ohonom yn dymuno'i weld yng Nghymru. Ni ellir gwadu bod y tri chais yn deilwng ac y byddent yn darparu buddion gwirioneddol ryfeddol i Gymru. Mae Llywodraeth y DU wedi ymrwymo £26 miliwn i greu porthladd rhydd yng Nghymru, ac rwy'n falch o weld bod Gweinidogion yma yng Nghymru ac yn Llundain yn gweithredu ar eu gair drwy gydweithio i wireddu hyn. Rwy'n arbennig o falch o glywed y gallai ail borthladd rhydd fod yn yr arfaeth pe cyflwynir cynnig gwirioneddol eithriadol, rhywbeth a bwysleisiwyd i mi pan gyfarfûm â'r Ysgrifennydd ffyniant bro ar y pryd, Michael Gove, ac mae'n neges rwyf wedi'i rhannu gyda'r holl ymgeiswyr y cyfarfûm â hwy hyd yma. Yn bersonol, byddaf yn parhau i ddadlau dros greu dau borthladd rhydd yng Nghymru, gan y byddant heb os yn hwb gwirioneddol i economi Cymru ac yn darparu manteision di-rif i bob un ohonom. Rwy'n mawr obeithio y bydd Llywodraeth Cymru yn parhau i weithio'n agos gyda Llywodraeth y DU ac yn cydweithredu'n effeithiol i gyflawni'r cynigion cyffrous hyn, a fydd heb amheuaeth yn darparu manteision economaidd eithriadol i Gymru. Ddirprwy Lywydd, rwy'n croesi fy mysedd am ddau borthladd rhydd yma yng Nghymru, ac yn union fel fy holl gyd-bleidwyr ym mhob cwr o Gymru, edrychaf ymlaen at glywed y cyhoeddiad ar borthladdoedd rhydd yn cael ei wneud cyn bo hir.

Yes, well, there we are. That was that version; this is going to be this version. The point here is quite clearly that I am extremely sceptical of free ports. I don't uphold this idea of free trade in the way that you're describing, and I would ask people to think about who is wholesale behind this. I'm sure that some of us can remember Liz Truss, I'm sure some can remember Kwasi Kwarteng, and I'm sure they can remember the crash to the economy, because those are the types of people who are behind this libertarian right-wing think tank and this disastrous mini budget that we're still now footing the bill for. I'm sure you can remember the sterling crisis, the turmoil on the bond market, the pension funds, the central bank intervention, the mortgage rate hikes. Those are the sorts of people that support this type of bid. So, it doesn't matter how you package it up, and I'm sure that we've heard some and we'll hear more, free ports represent low tax, low regulation, limited Government ideology and a race to the bottom stuff. So, it's wrong, the wrong answer, of course - and we did hear Brexit, amazingly - it's the wrong answer to the Brexit problem that was created by this right-wing Government.

Ie, wel, dyna ni. Dyna oedd y fersiwn honno; dyma fydd y fersiwn hon. Mae'n amlwg mai'r pwynt yma yw fy mod yn hynod amheus o borthladdoedd rhydd. Nid wyf yn cytuno â'r syniad hwn o fasnach rydd fel y'i disgrifiwch, a hoffwn ofyn i bobl feddwl am bwy sydd y tu ôl i hyn yn y pen draw. Rwy'n siŵr y gall rhai ohonom gofio Liz Truss, rwy'n siŵr y gall rhai gofio Kwasi Kwarteng, ac rwy'n siŵr y gallant gofio chwalfa'r economi, gan mai dyna'r mathau o bobl sydd y tu ôl i'r felin drafod asgell dde libertaraidd hon a'r gyllideb fach drychinebus rydym yn dal i dalu amdani. Rwy'n siŵr y gallwch gofio'r argyfwng sterling, cwymp y farchnad bondiau, y cronfeydd pensiwn, ymyrraeth y banc canolog, y codiadau i gyfraddau morgeisi. Dyna'r mathau o bobl sy'n cefnogi'r math hwn o gais. Felly, ni waeth sut rydych yn ei becynnu, ac rwy'n siŵr ein bod wedi clywed rhywfaint ac y byddwn yn clywed mwy, mae porthladdoedd rhydd yn cynrychioli trethi isel, lefel isel o reoleiddio, ideoleg Llywodraeth gyfyngedig a ras i'r gwaelod. Felly, mae'n anghywir, yr ateb anghywir, wrth gwrs - a chlywsom am Brexit, yn rhyfeddol - dyma'r ateb anghywir i broblem Brexit a grëwyd gan y Llywodraeth asgell dde hon.

The latest estimate suggests that the UK economy is already around 4 per cent smaller as a result of leaving the EU. It's been explained to me how the UK model for free ports offer robust protections - we've heard those before - against the criminality and the corruption that they have facilitated elsewhere in the world.

Mae'r amcangyfrif diweddaraf yn awgrymu bod economi'r DU eisoes oddeutu 4 y cant yn llai o ganlyniad i adael yr UE. Eglurwyd i mi sut mae model y DU ar gyfer porthladdoedd rhydd yn cynnig amddiffyniadau cadarn - rydym wedi clywed y rheini o'r blaen - yn erbyn y troseddu a'r llygredd y maent wedi'i hwyluso mewn mannau eraill yn y byd.

In a minute. But at a time when the national debt is £2.5 trillion - digest that one - thanks to years of Tory mismanagement, free ports still deprive central Government of vital income via a wide range of customs privileges and tax breaks.

Mewn munud. Ond ar adeg pan fo'r ddyled genedlaethol yn £2.5 triliwn - treuliwch hynny - diolch i flynyddoedd o gamreoli Torïaidd, mae porthladdoedd rhydd yn dal i amddifadu'r Llywodraeth ganolog o incwm hanfodol drwy ystod eang o freintiau tollau a gostyngiadau treth.

Thanks, Joyce, for giving way, and it's an interesting speech. Can you just clarify that you are saying that you don't want to invest or create jobs in your own region of Mid and West Wales?

Diolch am ildio, Joyce, ac mae'n araith ddiddorol. A allwch chi gadarnhau eich bod yn dweud nad ydych am fuddsoddi na chreu swyddi yn eich rhanbarth eich hun yng Nghanolbarth a Gorllewin Cymru?

I knew you'd sink to the lowest denominator. So, the answer, clearly, to that question is 'no'. You're trying to mix things up here, quite deliberately, and that's why you've tabled this debate. Because you, ideologically, think it's a good idea to give free tax breaks to the very wealthy to take money out of our country and hand it to wherever. There's another debate that's going on, and that is: do we want the investment in our areas that actually helps people to have really good jobs with very good wages that are protected by that income generation, which could also help, actually - if you weren't allowing all that leeching of taxpayers' money - to invest in all the things that you ask here, week by week? Where's the money? Well, there it is. So, let's be clear about this. We need to also remember that people are actually striking for more pay at the moment. You've asked us to settle - quite rightly, and we are going in that direction - good terms and conditions for workers. So, you know, let's keep the taxpayers here. These aren't all my thoughts, either. Two thirds of respondents to the free-port policy also agreed with everything that I've just said. So, my question is: how is the Welsh Government going to deliver its promise, via the workers' consultative forum, of fair work and social partnerships that are part of our ideology on this side? That said, our ports are a gateway to growth and levelling up, but as centres of cleaner energy, not as a free-market free for all. That is the ambition for the Milford Haven future energy cluster that I want to see. Our ports can drive change. They will drive change. They will enable the decarbonisation of green energy. They will bring in industry and transport and logistics, and they are, indeed, ideally located to serve as generation, storage and distribution sites for emerging technologies like green hydrogen and floating offshore wind in the Celtic sea. That's the future I want to see for our ports, and that should be the political focus going on. I heard a whole list of, 'This is what they'll do for people.' So, if you look at 2.1.13 in the document about free ports, it says that they 'could include commitments in relation to the real living wage and trade union engagement.' The word 'could' is actually vital here, and it's not in the Tories' ideology to enable workers' rights, as they have clearly demonstrated in their very recent drive against trade unions and fair play.

Roeddwn yn gwybod y byddech yn ymostwng i hynny. Felly, yr ateb, yn amlwg, i'r cwestiwn hwnnw yw 'nac ydw'. Rydych yn ceisio cymysgu pethau yma, yn gwbl fwriadol, a dyna pam eich bod wedi cyflwyno'r ddadl hon. Oherwydd rydych chi, yn ideolegol, yn credu ei bod yn syniad da rhoi gostyngiadau treth am ddim i gwmnïau cyfoethog iawn fel y gallant fynd ag arian o'n gwlad a'i roi ym mhle bynnag. Mae dadl arall yn mynd rhagddi, sef: a ydym am gael buddsoddiad yn ein hardaloedd sy'n helpu pobl i gael swyddi da iawn gyda chyflogau da iawn a ddiogelir gan yr incwm a gynhyrchir, a allai hefyd helpu, mewn gwirionedd - pe na baech yn gadael i arian trethdalwyr gael ei gamddefnyddio yn y fath fodd - i fuddsoddi yn yr holl bethau y gofynnwch amdanynt yma o wythnos i wythnos? Ble mae'r arian? Wel, dyna fe. Felly, gadewch inni fod yn glir ynglŷn â hyn. Mae angen inni gofio hefyd fod pobl yn streicio am fwy o gyflog ar hyn o bryd. Rydych wedi gofyn inni gytuno - yn gwbl briodol, ac rydym yn mynd i'r cyfeiriad hwnnw - ar delerau ac amodau da i weithwyr. Felly, gadewch inni gadw'r trethdalwyr yma. Nid fy nheimladau i yn unig yw'r rhain, ychwaith. Roedd dwy ran o dair o'r ymatebwyr i'r polisi porthladdoedd rhydd hefyd yn cytuno â phopeth rwyf newydd ei ddweud. Felly, fy nghwestiwn yw: sut mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn mynd i gyflawni ei haddewid, drwy fforwm ymgynghorol y gweithwyr, o waith teg a phartneriaethau cymdeithasol sy'n rhan o'n hideoleg ni ar yr ochr hon? Wedi dweud hynny, mae ein porthladdoedd yn borth i dwf a chodi'r gwastad, ond fel canolfannau ynni glanach, nid fel lle i'r farchnad rydd wneud fel y myn. Dyna'r uchelgais rwyf am ei weld ar gyfer clwstwr ynni'r dyfodol yn Aberdaugleddau. Gall ein porthladdoedd ysgogi newid. Byddant yn ysgogi newid. Byddant yn galluogi datgarboneiddio ynni gwyrdd. Byddant yn dod â diwydiant a thrafnidiaeth a logisteg ynghyd, ac yn wir, maent mewn sefyllfa ddelfrydol i wasanaethu fel safleoedd cynhyrchu, storio a dosbarthu ar gyfer technolegau datblygol fel hydrogen gwyrdd ac ynni gwynt arnofiol ar y môr Celtaidd. Dyna'r dyfodol rwyf am ei weld i'n porthladdoedd, a dylai hynny fod yn ffocws gwleidyddol wrth symud ymlaen. Clywais restr hir o, 'Dyma fyddant yn ei wneud i bobl.' Felly, os edrychwch ar 2.1.13 yn y ddogfen am borthladdoedd rhydd, mae'n dweud 'gallai hyn gynnwys ymrwymiadau ynglŷn â'r cyflog byw go iawn ac ymgysylltu ag undebau llafur.' Mae'r gair 'gallai' yn allweddol yma, ac nid yw galluogi hawliau gweithwyr yn rhan o ideoleg y Torïaid, fel y maent wedi'i ddangos yn glir yn eu hymgyrch ddiweddar iawn yn erbyn undebau llafur a chwarae teg.

After listening to Luke Fletcher and Joyce Watson, all I can say is that the anti-growth coalition is alive and well in the Senedd Chamber here today. I welcome today's debate because not only does it give me a chance - [ Interruption. ] You can intervene later on, Huw; don't worry. It gives me a chance to say how beneficial free ports will be to the Welsh economy, but I can also tell you how brilliant Port Talbot will be in supporting a Celtic free port, as the Dirprwy Lywydd knows only too well. I hoped - I wrote 'hope' here but that hope is lost now - I hoped that everyone here could see the benefits of an area with tax and customs incentives, not only for the jobs they create, but also the huge investment opportunities they'll bring to the areas that really need it. A free port for Wales will no doubt be a big factor in our economic recovery after COVID-19, and will be a real driver in creating future markets for UK products across the globe. The Welsh economy, under this Welsh Labour Government, has been centred too much around the city of Cardiff, so it's a fantastic chance for us to spread the wealth away from just one corner of our country. It's evident too that a free port can promote regeneration in a surrounding area, and that will deliver for communities that need it the most in Wales, and those disproportionately tend to be our coastal communities. Free ports work. I was really struck by the fact that just a small public investment into free ports is likely to deliver huge economic returns. For example, the two free ports in Scotland were given £52 million in UK Government investment and are set to bring forward £10.8 billion in public and private investment to these areas. That's a two-hundredfold return.

Ar ôl gwrando ar Luke Fletcher a Joyce Watson, yr unig beth y gallaf ei ddweud yw bod y gynghrair wrth-dwf yn fyw ac yn iach yn Siambr y Senedd yma heddiw. Rwy'n croesawu'r ddadl heddiw, oherwydd nid yn unig y mae'n rhoi cyfle imi - [ Torri ar draws.] Gallwch wneud ymyriad yn nes ymlaen, Huw; peidiwch â phoeni. Mae'n rhoi cyfle imi ddweud pa mor fuddiol fydd porthladdoedd rhydd i economi Cymru, ond gallaf hefyd ddweud wrthych pa mor wych fydd Port Talbot i gefnogi porthladd rhydd Celtaidd, fel y gŵyr y Dirprwy Lywydd yn iawn. Roeddwn wedi gobeithio - ysgrifennais 'gobeithio' yma ond mae'r gobaith hwnnw wedi'i golli bellach - roeddwn wedi gobeithio y gallai pawb yma weld manteision ardal â chymelliadau treth a thollau, nid yn unig o ran y swyddi y maent yn eu creu, ond hefyd y cyfleoedd buddsoddi enfawr y maent yn eu cyflwyno i'r ardaloedd sydd eu hangen yn fawr. Heb os, bydd porthladd rhydd yng Nghymru yn ffactor mawr yn ein hadferiad economaidd ar ôl COVID-19, ac yn sbardun gwirioneddol i greu marchnadoedd yn y dyfodol ar gyfer cynhyrchion y DU ledled y byd. Mae economi Cymru, o dan Lywodraeth Lafur Cymru, wedi'i chanoli'n ormodol o amgylch dinas Caerdydd, felly mae'n gyfle gwych inni ledaenu'r cyfoeth o un gornel o'n gwlad. Mae'n amlwg hefyd y gall porthladd rhydd hybu adfywiad yn yr ardal gyfagos, a bydd hynny'n cyflawni ar ran y cymunedau sydd angen y cymorth hwnnw fwyaf yng Nghymru, ac yn anghymesur, ein cymunedau arfordirol yw'r rheini'n tueddu i fod. Mae porthladdoedd rhydd yn gweithio. Nodaf y ffaith bod buddsoddiad cyhoeddus bach mewn porthladdoedd rhydd yn debygol o sicrhau enillion economaidd enfawr. Er enghraifft, cafodd y ddau borthladd rhydd yn yr Alban £52 miliwn o fuddsoddiad gan Lywodraeth y DU, a disgwylir iddynt arwain at £10.8 biliwn mewn buddsoddiad cyhoeddus a phreifat yn yr ardaloedd hyn. Dyna elw o ddau can gwaith y buddsoddiad.

Could I just point him back towards the pre-2020 Government, which invested £16 million in the north-east area coast? It didn't require a free port - it was just investment, which then enabled Siemens to develop its capacity for offshore wind. It doesn't need to be free ports to do this. What it needs to be is strategic Government investment. Now I, of course, will always welcome investment in my area and the potential for jobs. In fact, that's why I will back this going forward. But don't pretend that it's free ports that do it. It's actually the opportunities in renewables, and the ports and the skills within south Wales. Free ports is just an ideology.

A gaf fi ei gyfeirio'n ôl at y Llywodraeth cyn 2020, a fuddsoddodd £16 miliwn yn arfordir ardal y gogledd-ddwyrain? Nid oedd angen porthladd rhydd - dim ond buddsoddiad ydoedd, a alluogodd Siemens wedyn i ddatblygu eu capasiti ar gyfer ynni gwynt ar y môr. Nid oes angen porthladdoedd rhydd i wneud hyn. Yr hyn sydd ei angen yw buddsoddiad strategol gan y Llywodraeth. Nawr, byddaf i, wrth gwrs, bob amser yn croesawu buddsoddiad yn fy ardal a'r potensial ar gyfer swyddi. A dweud y gwir, dyna pam y byddaf yn cefnogi hyn wrth symud ymlaen. Ond peidiwch ag esgus mai porthladdoedd rhydd sy'n gwneud hynny. Y cyfleoedd mewn ynni adnewyddadwy, a'r porthladdoedd a'r sgiliau yn ne Cymru sy'n gwneud hynny. Ideoleg yn unig yw porthladdoedd rhydd.

Free ports are not an ideology, and they've changed, as I've just said, the economy there in Scotland, where they've been invested. He talked about the north-east - look at the impact it's had in Teesside. It's had a huge impact on a community that's previously been deprived. In the south-west of Wales the Celtic free port is projected to create 16,000 jobs and £5.5 billion of inward investment for green energy projects. That's 16,000 high-quality, well-paid green energy jobs with a real opportunity to unlock part of the £54 billion floating offshore wind industry. Linking two of our deep-sea ports in Milford Haven and Port Talbot is a great use of the resources that we already have, and should make us more attractive to the offshore wind sector, given that it would cover a large part of the Welsh coast. I have no doubt that it will also help support the proposed Gwynt Glas offshore windfarm near the coast of Pembrokeshire. We already have the infrastructure in Port Talbot to support this cutting edge industry's innovation in the Celtic sea and make Wales a world leader in green energy. Not only do we have a deep-sea port, but we already have ready-made steelworks to support the manufacturing side of an offshore floating wind industry. It's also clear we have great transport links, so we can easily reach other parts of the UK and beyond. Finally, the area of Neath Port Talbot is also part of the NPTC Group of Colleges, which already has an excellent reputation in furthering education and works with industry leaders and universities, so we also have the potential to provide the right skills mix, which will help underpin and deliver this project far into the future. I cannot say enough that investment of this type is sorely needed to be spread beyond the usual places. It should be uncomfortable to learn - particularly for Luke Fletcher, who represents Neath Port Talbot in the same way that I do - that the average GVA per head in Neath Port Talbot, less than an hour down the road, is less than half of the GVA per head in Cardiff. Sadly, a 2022 prosperity score for Neath Port Talbot puts it nineteenth out of the 22 local authorities in Wales, and at 337 out of 374 authorities in the UK in terms of economic and social well-being. So, free ports are an opportunity to change the narrative, and that, I think, is the point that Luke Fletcher and Plaid Cymru and the anti-growth coalition seem to miss. So, despite this real potential in the area, we're not creating the economic output, we're not getting the right incomes, and we're not harnessing the potential and the skills that we have. A free port can change that situation, and I think the Celtic free port has limitless potential in Pembrokeshire and Neath Port Talbot. A green energy innovation corridor, underpinned by this investment, can really make a difference and showcase the talent we have in Wales to the world. Let's also hope this will have a knock-on effect in town centres in places like Port Talbot, as well as on small businesses in and around the area, which depend on customer footfall. I'm hearing a lot that this project will be transformational for the region. Working with a huge array of partners across south Wales, I think we can make this part of Wales a brilliant example of what free ports can offer, and I wholeheartedly say that I back the bid for a Celtic free port in south-west Wales. Thank you.

Nid ideoleg yw porthladdoedd rhydd, ac fel rwyf newydd ei ddweud, maent wedi newid yr economi yn yr Alban, lle buddsoddwyd ynddynt. Soniodd am y gogledd-ddwyrain - edrychwch ar yr effaith y mae wedi'i chael yng Teesside. Mae wedi cael effaith enfawr ar gymuned sydd wedi bod yn ddifreintiedig yn y gorffennol. Yn ne-orllewin Cymru, rhagwelir y bydd y porthladd rhydd Celtaidd yn creu 16,000 o swyddi a £5.5 biliwn o fewnfuddsoddiad ar gyfer prosiectau ynni gwyrdd. Dyna 16,000 o swyddi ynni gwyrdd o ansawdd uchel sy'n talu'n dda, gyda chyfle gwirioneddol i ddatgloi rhan o'r diwydiant ynni gwynt arnofiol ar y môr sy'n werth £54 biliwn. Mae cysylltu dau o'n porthladdoedd môr dwfn yn Aberdaugleddau a Phort Talbot yn ddefnydd gwych o'r adnoddau sydd gennym yn barod, a dylai hynny ein gwneud yn fwy deniadol i'r sector ynni gwynt ar y môr, o ystyried y byddai'n cwmpasu rhan fawr o arfordir Cymru. Nid oes gennyf amheuaeth y bydd hefyd yn helpu i gefnogi fferm wynt ar y môr arfaethedig Gwynt Glas ger arfordir sir Benfro. Mae gennym eisoes y seilwaith ym Mhort Talbot i gefnogi arloesedd y diwydiant blaengar hwn yn y môr Celtaidd a gwneud Cymru yn arweinydd byd-eang mewn ynni gwyrdd. Nid yn unig fod gennym borthladd môr dwfn, ond mae gennym eisoes weithfeydd dur parod i gefnogi'r ochr weithgynhyrchu mewn diwydiant ynni gwynt arnofiol ar y môr. Mae hefyd yn amlwg fod gennym gysylltiadau trafnidiaeth gwych, felly gallwn gyrraedd rhannau eraill o'r DU a thu hwnt yn hawdd. Yn olaf, mae ardal Castell-nedd Port Talbot hefyd yn rhan o Grŵp Colegau NPTC sydd ag enw da iawn eisoes am ddarparu addysg bellach ac sy'n gweithio gydag arweinwyr y diwydiant a phrifysgolion, felly mae gennym botensial hefyd i ddarparu'r cymysgedd sgiliau cywir, a fydd yn helpu i ategu a chyflawni'r prosiect hwn ymhell i'r dyfodol. Ni allaf orbwysleisio bod taer angen gwasgaru buddsoddiad o'r math hwn y tu hwnt i'r lleoedd arferol. Dylai fod yn anghyfforddus clywed - yn enwedig i Luke Fletcher, sy'n cynrychioli Castell-nedd Port Talbot fel fi - fod gwerth ychwanegol gros cyfartalog y pen yng Nghastell-nedd Port Talbot, lai nag awr i lawr y ffordd, yn llai na hanner gwerth ychwanegol gros y pen yng Nghaerdydd. Yn anffodus, mae sgôr ffyniant a gyhoeddwyd yn 2022 ar gyfer Castell-nedd Port Talbot yn eu rhoi'n bedwerydd ar bymtheg o'r 22 awdurdod lleol yng Nghymru, ac yn safle 337 o'r 374 o awdurdodau yn y DU o ran lles economaidd a chymdeithasol. Felly, mae porthladdoedd rhydd yn gyfle i newid y naratif, a chredaf mai dyna'r pwynt y mae Luke Fletcher a Phlaid Cymru a'r gynghrair wrth-dwf yn ei gamddeall yn ôl pob golwg. Felly, er gwaethaf y gwir botensial hwn yn yr ardal, nid ydym yn creu'r allbwn economaidd, nid ydym yn cael yr incymau priodol, ac nid ydym yn harneisio'r potensial a'r sgiliau sydd gennym. Gall porthladd rhydd newid y sefyllfa honno, a chredaf fod gan y porthladd rhydd Celtaidd botensial di-ben-draw yn sir Benfro a Chastell-nedd Port Talbot. Gall coridor arloesi ynni gwyrdd, wedi'i ategu gan y buddsoddiad hwn, wneud gwahaniaeth gwirioneddol ac arddangos y dalent sydd gennym yng Nghymru i'r byd. Gadewch inni obeithio hefyd y bydd hyn yn cael effaith ganlyniadol yng nghanol trefi mewn lleoedd fel Port Talbot, yn ogystal ag ar fusnesau bach yn yr ardal a'r cyffiniau, sy'n dibynnu ar nifer cwsmeriaid. Rwy'n clywed yn aml y bydd y prosiect hwn yn drawsnewidiol i'r rhanbarth. Gan weithio gydag amrywiaeth enfawr o bartneriaid ar draws y de, credaf y gallwn wneud y rhan hon o Gymru yn enghraifft wych o'r hyn y gall porthladdoedd rhydd ei gynnig, ac rwy'n dweud fy mod yn llwyr gefnogi'r cais am borthladd rhydd Celtaidd yn ne-orllewin Cymru. Diolch.

Before I call the next person, I'd better put on record and remind Members that I do represent Port Talbot, even though it's been mentioned I do not know how many times in the last contribution. [ Laughter.] Rhun ap Iorwerth.

Cyn imi alw'r unigolyn nesaf, byddai'n well imi nodi ac atgoffa'r Aelodau fy mod yn cynrychioli Port Talbot, er bod hynny wedi'i grybwyll nid wyf yn gwybod sawl gwaith yn y cyfraniad diwethaf. [ Chwerthin.] Rhun ap Iorwerth.

Thank you very much. It's good to have the opportunity to talk again about the bid that has been prepared and put forward by Isle of Anglesey County Council and Stena Line to designate Holyhead and Anglesey a free port on behalf of the whole of north Wales. I'll say as a supporter of that bid, and one that's collaborated with the authors, that we need some honesty in terms of this debate, and we need a dose of reality rather than political ideology on the benches opposite, too. It isn't clear to everyone what a free port is. It's fair to say that many have doubts about them, and we've heard some of those doubts today. And it is important to take those doubts seriously, and to challenge constantly - and I have done plenty of that myself - because we know from history that free ports that don't follow clear and rigorous guidelines can bring negative side effects. And we have to remember that there are other ways of making investments that can avoid those kinds of negative effects. So, that's the honesty that I am seeking here. But, for me, what's important is that this bid, within the framework that we have, is a bid that has been put together on the island, led by partners who are used to working together - Stena and the county council; a bid that reflects our ambitions and our interests as a community, whilst at the same time bringing wider economic benefits. But it's also a bid that reflects our values as communities, with its authors, and me as a supporter, having insisted on operating within a set of clear principles. [ Interruption.] If I may continue for a moment. So, yes, we did have to demand and secure a number of concessions and assurance on a number of issues before starting the initiative. There was a financial battle to be won in the first place. Originally, the United Kingdom Government proposed £26 million for every free port in England and £8 million for every one in Wales. I drew attention to how unfair that was; everyone could see that that was entirely unacceptable, and those discussions took place. I was pleased to see that the Welsh Government saw eye to eye with me on this. There was a victory on that call for a level playing field and financial fair play, with £26 million now on the table for Wales too. But there was more than that. There was also a need to know that workers' rights would be safeguarded more, as well as the environment. And through discussion, we had more assurance in that regard in a new Welsh prospectus. But, again, ongoing monitoring will be needed - it will be vital in order to be aware of the potential negative effects - and I'm pleased to hear the Welsh Government also making comments in that regard too.

Diolch yn fawr iawn. Mae'n dda cael cyfle eto i siarad am y cais sydd wedi cael ei baratoi a'i gyflwyno gan Gyngor Sir Ynys Môn a Stena Line i ddynodi Caergybi ac Ynys Môn yn borthladd rhydd, a hynny ar ran y gogledd i gyd. Mi ddywedaf i ar y cychwyn fel cefnogwr i'r cais, ac un sydd wedi cydweithio efo'r awduron, mae angen tipyn o onestrwydd o gwmpas y ddadl yma, ac mae eisiau dos o realiti yn hytrach nag ideoleg gwleidyddol ar y meinciau cyferbyn, hefyd. Dydy hi ddim yn eglur i bawb beth ydy porthladd rhydd. Mae'n deg dweud bod gan lawer amheuon amdanyn nhw, ac rydyn ni wedi clywed rhai o'r amheuon hynny heddiw. Ac mae'n bwysig cymryd yr amheuon hynny o ddifri, a herio drwy'r amser - ac dwi wedi gwneud digon o hynny fy hun - achos rydym ni'n gwybod o hanes fod porthladdoedd rhydd sydd ddim yn dilyn rheolau clir a chadarn yn gallu dod â sgil-effeithiau negyddol. Ac mae'n rhaid cofio hefyd fod yna ffyrdd eraill o wneud buddsoddiadau sydd yn gallu osgoi y mathau yna o effeithiau negyddol. Felly, dyna ydy'r gonestrwydd dwi'n chwilio amdano fo. Ond, i fi, beth sy'n bwysig ydy bod y cais yma, o fewn y fframwaith sydd gennym ni, yn gais sydd wedi ei lunio ar yr ynys, dan arweiniad partneriaid sydd wedi hen arfer gweithio efo'i gilydd - y cyngor sir a Stena; cais sydd dwi'n meddwl yn adlewyrchu ein dyheadau ni a'n buddiannau ni fel cymuned, tra, ar yr un pryd, yn dod â buddion economaidd ehangach. Ond hefyd, mae'n gais sydd yn adlewyrchu ein gwerthoedd ni fel cymunedau, efo'i awduron o, a minnau fel cefnogwr, wedi mynnu gweithredu o fewn set o egwyddorion clir. [ Torri ar draws.] Os caf i gario ymlaen am funud fach. Felly, oedd, mi oedd yn rhaid mynnu a chael nifer o gonsesiynau a sicrwydd ar nifer o faterion cyn cychwyn ar y fenter. Mi oedd yna frwydr ariannol i'w hennill yn gyntaf. Yn wreiddiol, mi oedd Llywodraeth y Deyrnas Unedig yn cynnig £26 miliwn i bob porthladd rhydd yn Lloegr ac £8 miliwn i bob un yng Nghymru. Mi dynnais i sylw at ba mor annheg oedd hynny; mi oedd pawb yn gallu gweld bod hynny'n hollol annerbyniol, ac mi ddigwyddodd y trafodaethau. Roeddwn i'n falch bod Llywodraeth Cymru yn gweld llygad yn llygad â fi ar hyn. Mi ddaeth yna fuddugoliaeth ar yr alwad yna am faes chwarae gwastad a chwarae teg ariannol, efo £26 miliwn bellach ar y bwrdd i Gymru hefyd. Ond mi oedd angen mwy na hynny; mi oedd hefyd angen gwybod y byddai hawliau gweithwyr yn cael eu diogelu fwy ynghyd â'r amgylchedd. A drwy drafodaeth hefyd, mi gawsom ni fwy o'r sicrwydd hynny mewn prosbectws Cymreig newydd. Ond hyd yn oed wedyn, mi fydd angen monitro parhaus - mi fydd hynny'n allweddol er mwyn bod yn ymwybodol o'r effeithiau negyddol posib - a dwi'n falch o glywed Llywodraeth Cymru hefyd yn gwneud sylwadau i'r perwyl hwnnw hefyd.

So, on those new foundations, Anglesey council was free to team up with Stena to put a bid together. They had my full support. The bid itself is about bringing investment, job opportunities, encouraging entrepreneurship on the island and across the north, and it's important that councils across the north are all supporting it. So, across the region, across party lines too, this new made-in-Wales prospectus has been able to bring people together. Skills are vital: Bangor University, Coleg Llandrillo Menai are very much a part of it. It's also mitigation on the Brexit front. It won't undo the damage of Brexit, but by creating new economic activity in the port of Holyhead, it can be a means to address the post-Brexit downturn in trade through the ports. And there are wider benefits to investing in encouraging traffic to return to the land bridge, including in environmental terms. And the environment of course is at the heart of the bid. I want the port of Holyhead to be the hub for the next generation of Irish sea wind generation. This could be a boost for that, done well. And I look beyond the north too. There is a chance here to elevate Wales's ambitions in renewables as a whole, in a more joined-up way. I've reflected on a number of occasions in this Senedd on the potential benefits of having two free ports, looking along the same green energy lines. But I do think the Holyhead, Ynys Môn, north Wales bid does stand out. There is no single silver bullet when it comes to economic regeneration. Anybody suggesting that free ports are the answer to all our ills are wrong, and I'm hearing far too much of that, frankly, this afternoon. Of course the Conservatives are branding this as a key part of the levelling-up agenda. I know they're desperate to hide the fact that Conservative economic policy does nothing other than to level down for everybody. And we have to put the £26 million too in the context of the hundreds of millions that have been lost to communities like mine, and the rest of the UK, because of the Conservatives' misguided policies and their Brexit lies. But I believe that by working carefully, we can benefit from using all the variety of economic tools at our disposal. The recent announcement of the 2 Sisters Food Group closure consultation is yet another stark reminder of the challenges we face, and that's why I'm wishing Anglesey council and Stena all the best with their bid on our behalf.

Felly, ar y sylfeini newydd hynny, roedd cyngor Ynys Môn yn rhydd i ymuno â Stena i roi cais at ei gilydd. Cawsant fy nghefnogaeth lawn. Mae'r cais ei hun yn ymwneud â sicrhau buddsoddiad, cyfleoedd gwaith ac annog entrepreneuriaeth ar yr ynys ac ar draws y gogledd, ac mae'n bwysig fod cynghorau ar draws y gogledd yn ei gefnogi. Felly, ar draws y rhanbarth, ar draws y pleidiau hefyd, mae'r prosbectws newydd hwn a wnaed yng Nghymru wedi gallu dod â phobl ynghyd. Mae sgiliau'n hanfodol: mae Prifysgol Bangor, Coleg Llandrillo Menai yn rhan bwysig ohono. Mae hefyd yn fesur lliniaru o ran Brexit. Ni fydd yn dad-wneud difrod Brexit, ond drwy greu gweithgarwch economaidd newydd ym mhorthladd Caergybi, gall fod yn ffordd o fynd i'r afael â'r dirywiad ôl-Brexit mewn masnach drwy'r porthladdoedd. Ac mae manteision ehangach i fuddsoddi mewn annog traffig i ddychwelyd i'r bont dir, gan gynnwys yn nhermau amgylcheddol. Ac mae'r amgylchedd, wrth gwrs, yn ganolog i'r cais. Rwyf am i borthladd Caergybi fod yn hyb ar gyfer y genhedlaeth nesaf o gynhyrchiant ynni gwynt ar fôr Iwerddon. Gallai hyn fod yn hwb i hynny, o'i wneud yn dda. Ac rwy'n edrych y tu hwnt i'r gogledd hefyd. Mae cyfle yma i ddyrchafu uchelgeisiau Cymru ym maes ynni adnewyddadwy yn gyffredinol, mewn ffordd fwy cydgysylltiedig. Rwyf wedi myfyrio ar sawl achlysur yn y Senedd hon ar fanteision posibl cael dau borthladd rhydd, gyda'r un egwyddorion o ran ynni gwyrdd. Ond credaf fod cais Caergybi, Ynys Môn, gogledd Cymru yn sefyll allan. Nid oes un ateb hollgynhwysol i adfywio economaidd. Mae unrhyw un sy'n awgrymu mai porthladdoedd rhydd yw'r ateb i'n holl broblemau yn anghywir, ac rwy'n clywed gormod lawer o hynny y prynhawn yma a dweud y gwir. Wrth gwrs, mae'r Ceidwadwyr yn brandio hyn fel rhan allweddol o'r agenda i godi'r gwastad. Gwn eu bod yn ysu i guddio'r ffaith nad yw polisi economaidd y Ceidwadwyr yn gwneud unrhyw beth heblaw gostwng y gwastad i bawb. Ac mae'n rhaid inni hefyd ystyried y £26 miliwn hwnnw yng nghyd-destun y cannoedd o filiynau a gollwyd i gymunedau fel fy un i, a gweddill y DU, oherwydd polisïau cyfeiliornus y Ceidwadwyr a'u celwyddau am Brexit. Ond drwy weithio'n ofalus, credaf y gallwn elwa o ddefnyddio'r amrywiaeth gyfan o arfau economaidd sydd ar gael i ni. Mae'r cyhoeddiad diweddar ynghylch yr ymgynghoriad ar gau 2 Sisters Food Group yn ein hatgoffa eto o'r heriau sy'n ein hwynebu, a dyna pam fy mod yn dymuno'n dda i gyngor Ynys Môn a Stena gyda'u cais ar ein rhan.

I'm always very grateful to bang the drum for something that I'm passionate about in this Chamber, and I've rewritten this speech about four or five times in my head, having listened to contributions this afternoon, and knowing the glare that the Deputy Presiding Officer gave me only a few weeks ago, I will be conscious to keep my contribution positive and upbeat this afternoon. But it will be no surprise to Members of this Chamber that I will be advocating for one free port in particular, for the Celtic free port in my constituency of Carmarthen West and South Pembrokeshire. We've heard the statistics from Tom Giffard, who represents the region that this free port represents, as it's over two geographical locations, and it brings together a whole region of organisations, be they Associated British Ports, Pembrokeshire County Council, Neath Port Talbot County Borough Council, the Port of Milford Haven, Tata Steel, RWE, the University of South Wales or Pembrokeshire College. These are trust ports, private ports, local authorities and higher education colleges, coming together, seeing the benefits that this free-port bid can bring, and that's something that I think is incredibly positive. But the point I'm trying to make, Dirprwy Lywydd, is that the Celtic free-port bid is not just confined to one community. It gives an entire region an opportunity to release the shackles a little, breathe new life into these communities right across south and west Wales. And we've heard from Tom Giffard regarding the £5.5 billion-worth of new investment and 16,000 new high-quality jobs. And the point that Luke Fletcher was making in terms of jobs being reallocated or redistributed from one area to another, I understand those concerns, but that's what's so important with this Celtic free-port bid: these are new jobs because of the renewable opportunities that are afforded to us with floating offshore wind. These are new jobs in industries that have survived by working in the hydrocarbon industries that have been in the area. I'll most happily take an intervention from my Mid and West Wales colleague.

Rwyf bob amser yn ddiolchgar iawn am gael siarad o blaid rhywbeth rwy'n angerddol yn ei gylch yn y Siambr hon, ac rwyf wedi ailysgrifennu'r araith hon bedair neu bum gwaith yn fy mhen, ar ôl gwrando ar y cyfraniadau y prynhawn yma, a chan gofio'r edrychiad a gefais gan y Dirprwy Lywydd ychydig wythnosau yn ôl, byddaf yn ofalus i gadw fy nghyfraniad yn gadarnhaol ac yn galonogol y prynhawn yma. Ond ni fydd yn syndod o gwbl i Aelodau'r Siambr hon y byddaf yn siarad o blaid un porthladd rhydd yn arbennig, sef y porthladd rhydd Celtaidd yn fy etholaeth i, Gorllewin Caerfyrddin a De Sir Benfro. Rydym wedi clywed yr ystadegau gan Tom Giffard, sy'n cynrychioli'r rhanbarth y mae'r porthladd rhydd hwn yn ei gynrychioli, gan ei fod dros ddau leoliad daearyddol, ac mae'n dod â rhanbarth cyfan o sefydliadau ynghyd, boed yn Associated British Ports, Cyngor Sir Penfro, Cyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol Castell-nedd Port Talbot, Porthladd Aberdaugleddau, Tata Steel, RWE, Prifysgol De Cymru neu Goleg Sir Benfro. Dyma borthladdoedd ymddiriedolaeth, porthladdoedd preifat, awdurdodau lleol a cholegau addysg uwch yn dod ynghyd, gan weld y manteision y gall y cais porthladd rhydd hwn eu cynnig, ac mae hynny'n rhywbeth sy'n hynod gadarnhaol yn fy marn i. Ond y pwynt rwy'n ceisio'i wneud, Ddirprwy Lywydd, yw nad yw cais y porthladd rhydd Celtaidd wedi'i gyfyngu i un gymuned yn unig. Mae'n rhoi cyfle i ranbarth cyfan ryddhau'r hualau, ac yn rhoi bywyd newydd i'r cymunedau hyn ar draws de a gorllewin Cymru. A chlywsom gan Tom Giffard am y buddsoddiad newydd o £5.5 biliwn a'r 16,000 o swyddi newydd o ansawdd uchel. A'r pwynt a wnaeth Luke Fletcher o ran swyddi'n cael eu hail-leoli neu eu hailddosbarthu o un ardal i'r llall, rwy'n deall y pryderon hynny, ond dyna sydd mor bwysig gyda chais y porthladd rhydd Celtaidd hwn: mae'r rhain yn swyddi newydd oherwydd y cyfleoedd ynni adnewyddadwy sy'n cael eu darparu i ni gydag ynni gwynt arnofiol ar y môr. Mae'r rhain yn swyddi newydd mewn diwydiannau sydd wedi goroesi drwy weithio yn y diwydiannau hydrocarbon a fu yn yr ardal. Rwy'n fwy na pharod i dderbyn ymyriad gan fy nghyd-Aelod dros Ganolbarth a Gorllewin Cymru.

I thank you for taking the intervention. You're just doing this mixing up again. We could have all that investment, the Tory Government could be very generous and give us all this money that they're promising, but we wouldn't have to lose the tax take from the advantages that you've described, that I want to see as well as you - I've represented this area since 1995, so I want to see that investment. What I don't want to see is the leeching of the taxes that belong in this country, and the advantage is only, as it was described, to the very top tier of those people who will probably move that money on again.

Diolch am dderbyn yr ymyriad. Rydych yn cymysgu pethau eto. Gallem gael yr holl fuddsoddiad hwnnw, gallai'r Llywodraeth Dorïaidd fod yn hael iawn a rhoi'r holl arian y maent yn ei addo i ni, ond ni fyddai'n rhaid inni golli'r derbyniadau treth o'r manteision rydych wedi'u disgrifio, ac rwyf i am eu gweld, fel chithau - rwyf wedi cynrychioli'r ardal hon ers 1995, felly rwyf am weld y buddsoddiad hwnnw. Yr hyn nad wyf am ei weld yw colli'r trethi sy'n perthyn i'r wlad hon, ac mae'r fantais, fel y'i disgrifiwyd, i haen uchaf un y bobl a fydd, yn ôl pob tebyg, yn symud yr arian hwnnw yn ei flaen eto.

I thank the Member for her intervention, and it's in a similar vein to the Member in front of me for Ogmore's interventions - 'Why do we need these? These things can be done anyway.' But I think that's missing the point in terms of what this does. It's a catalyst. Yes, it's potentially possible that these industries can thrive and survive without a free-port bid and without the benefits that a free port brings. But what it does is it catalysts it at one precise moment, so that these opportunities aren't lost. We are able to see local businesses and industries at the forefront of technology and industries, and I think that's what's really important is that if we don't take these opportunities, it's quite likely that companies outside of Wales, outside of the United Kingdom, can be at the forefront exploiting the opportunities that are afforded to local companies and local businesses. And that's why I think there isn't going to be that dispersal of jobs in Wales through a free-port bid, especially the Celtic free-port bid. I think that's really apparent and needs to be really clear, because there is real opportunity. But the Celtic free port isn't just about bringing economic investment. It's critical to the component in securing the UK's energy security, with the added benefit of decarbonising existing industries, keeping employment whilst granting us the ability to meet our net-zero ambitions. I too take optimism from the fact that the UK and Welsh Governments have worked together on this, making sure that the free-port policy in Wales is right for Wales. And as Paul Davies, my constituency neighbour in Preseli Pembrokeshire, has rightly highlighted in his opening remarks, Wales's potential is second to none. And while I may disagree with him on Preseli Pembrokeshire being the energy capital, with RWE power station and Valero oil refinery in my constituency, that's an argument he and I can have on another day. But it's really important that we can see the ability that's here, so while I take that optimism - and I see the Minister in front of me smiling - from this collaboration, I look up the M4 and urge all key decision makers to ensure that Wales's potential can be unleashed through two successful free-port bids. This can ensure that the opportunities unlocked via free-port status can be applied right across Wales from one corner to the other. We can work cross-party on this, with the UK Government and Welsh Government working hand in hand, supercharging Wales's green economy, ensuring that Wales can become the beating heart of the United Kingdom's energy security, with all corners of Wales playing their part. It's with that that I urge Members to support not only our motion here today, but also the Celtic free-port bid. Diolch yn fawr.

Diolch i'r Aelod am ei hymyriad, ac mae'n debyg i ymyriadau'r Aelod dros Ogwr o fy mlaen - 'Pam fod angen y rhain arnom? Gellir gwneud y pethau hyn beth bynnag.' Ond credaf fod hynny'n camddeall y pwynt o ran yr hyn y mae'n ei wneud. Mae'n gatalydd. Ydy, mae'n bosibl y gall y diwydiannau hyn ffynnu a goroesi heb gais porthladd rhydd a heb y buddion a ddaw yn sgil porthladd rhydd. Ond yr hyn y mae'n ei wneud yw ei wneud yn gatalydd ar un eiliad benodol, fel nad yw'r cyfleoedd hyn yn cael eu colli. Gallwn weld busnesau a diwydiannau lleol ar flaen y gad o ran technoleg a diwydiannau, a chredaf mai'r hyn sy'n wirioneddol bwysig yw ei bod hi'n bur debyg, os nad ydym yn achub ar y cyfleoedd hyn, mai cwmnïau y tu allan i Gymru, y tu allan i'r Deyrnas Unedig, a fydd ar flaen y gad yn manteisio ar y cyfleoedd a gynigir i gwmnïau lleol a busnesau lleol. A dyna pam fy mod yn credu na fydd swyddi'n cael eu gwasgaru yng Nghymru drwy gais porthladd rhydd, yn enwedig cais y porthladd rhydd Celtaidd. Credaf fod hynny'n wirioneddol amlwg ac mae angen iddo fod yn glir iawn, gan fod cyfle gwirioneddol i'w gael. Ond mae'r porthladd rhydd Celtaidd yn ymwneud â mwy na sicrhau buddsoddiad economaidd yn unig. Mae'n hanfodol i'r elfen o ddiogelu ffynonellau ynni'r DU, gyda'r fantais ychwanegol o ddatgarboneiddio diwydiannau presennol, a chadw swyddi gan roi'r gallu inni gyflawni ein huchelgeisiau sero net. Mae'n galonogol i minnau fod Llywodraethau'r DU a Chymru wedi cydweithio ar hyn, gan sicrhau bod y polisi porthladdoedd rhydd yng Nghymru yn iawn i Gymru. Ac fel y mae Paul Davies, fy nghymydog etholaethol ym Mhreseli Sir Benfro, wedi nodi'n gwbl gywir yn ei sylwadau agoriadol, mae potensial heb ei ail gan Gymru. Ac er fy mod yn anghytuno ag ef efallai mai Preseli Sir Benfro yw'r brifddinas ynni, gyda gorsaf ynni RWE a phurfa olew Valero yn fy etholaeth i, mae honno'n ddadl y gall ef a minnau ei chael rywbryd eto. Ond mae'n bwysig iawn ein bod yn gallu gweld y gallu sydd yma, felly er bod y cydweithio hwn yn galonogol - a gwelaf y Gweinidog o fy mlaen yn gwenu - edrychaf i fyny'r M4 ac annog pawb sy'n gwneud y penderfyniadau allweddol i sicrhau y gellir rhyddhau potensial Cymru drwy ddau gais porthladd rhydd llwyddiannus. Gall hyn sicrhau y gellir rhoi'r cyfleoedd a gaiff eu datgloi drwy statws porthladd rhydd ar waith ledled Cymru o un gornel i'r llall. Gallwn weithio'n drawsbleidiol ar hyn, gyda Llywodraeth y DU a Llywodraeth Cymru yn gweithio law yn llaw, gan roi hwb i economi werdd Cymru, a sicrhau y gall Cymru fod wrth wraidd y gwaith o ddiogelu ffynonellau ynni'r Deyrnas Unedig, gyda phob rhan o Gymru yn chwarae eu rhan. Gyda hynny, rwy'n annog yr Aelodau i gefnogi nid yn unig ein cynnig yma heddiw, ond hefyd cais y porthladd rhydd Celtaidd. Diolch yn fawr.

I'm pleased to be taking part in this debate today as a firm backer of the Celtic free-port bid. The opportunities offered by the Celtic free port to my region and the wider south-west Wales area are immense. That is why the bid has support from across the political spectrum and across the region. Should the UK and Welsh Governments back the bid, the establishment of a free port covering Port Talbot and Milford Haven docks could see upward of £5.5 billion of inward investment into the region. But this is just the tip of the iceberg, which is why Neath Port Talbot Council and Pembrokeshire County Council are key players in the bid consortium. The establishment of the Celtic free port will lead to an explosion of green jobs as the region moves to harness the potential of the Celtic sea and exploit green hydrogen. Floating offshore wind will be transformative, not only in helping to decarbonise and secure our future energy supply, but the £54 billion industry will be a key driver in transforming the ports at Port Talbot and Milford Haven into modern green energy hubs, ports that will build upon our past industrial expertise whilst delivering a brighter, greener future for Wales. Building on the extensive regional specialist skill base, transmission and pipelines, natural capital and distribution facilities, the Celtic free port will provide the skills, services and spaces for industry to thrive - industries such as Tata steel in Port Talbot, one of my region's largest employers and one of our nation's strategic industries. The opportunities the Celtic free port present to the Port Talbot steelworks are many, but first and foremost is the opportunity to play a key role in the manufacture of floating offshore wind components for the Celtic sea, and then to build upon those opportunities to export to the wider UK and across the globe. Tata, working alongside the Celtic free port, has the potential to become one of the world's first green steel producers and to develop the expertise in manufacturing the next generation of renewables. We are in a race to decarbonise our industries, our energy sectors and our infrastructure. If we can get these there first, we can not only lead the way, but cash in on the wider economic opportunities. South Wales led the first industrial revolution, and if we play our cards right, we can lead the next. My region is home to the most people working in manufacturing compared to anywhere else in Wales, and whilst we have seen the decline of manufacturing and heavy industry in recent decades, the potential to build upon those skills is immeasurable. With the right plan in place, we can transform the region and create new highly skilled, highly sought after jobs, green jobs in everything, from welding to data science. I believe the Celtic free-port bid is the right plan, and I urge the Welsh Government, together with the UK Government, to support the Celtic free-port bid. I would also ask colleagues to support our motion today in order to deliver a clear message to both Governments that this Senedd supports the Welsh free-port bid. Diolch yn fawr.

Rwy'n falch o gymryd rhan yn y ddadl hon heddiw fel cefnogwr cryf i gais y porthladd rhydd Celtaidd. Mae'r cyfleoedd a gynigir gan y porthladd rhydd Celtaidd i fy rhanbarth i ac ardal ehangach de-orllewin Cymru yn aruthrol. Dyna pam fod gan y cais gefnogaeth ar draws y sbectrwm gwleidyddol ac ar draws y rhanbarth. Pe bai Llywodraeth y DU a Llywodraeth Cymru yn cefnogi'r cais, gallai sefydlu porthladd rhydd i gynnwys dociau Port Talbot ac Aberdaugleddau arwain at fwy na £5.5 biliwn o fewnfuddsoddiad i'r rhanbarth. Ond pigyn y rhewfryn yn unig yw hyn, a dyna pam fod Cyngor Castell-nedd Port Talbot a Chyngor Sir Penfro yn chwarae rhan allweddol yng nghonsortiwm y cais. Bydd sefydlu'r porthladd rhydd Celtaidd yn arwain at ffrwydrad o swyddi gwyrdd wrth i'r rhanbarth geisio harneisio potensial y môr Celtaidd a manteisio ar hydrogen gwyrdd. Bydd ynni gwynt arnofiol ar y môr yn drawsnewidiol, nid yn unig o ran helpu i ddatgarboneiddio a diogelu ein cyflenwad ynni yn y dyfodol, ond bydd y diwydiant gwerth £54 biliwn yn sbardun allweddol i drawsnewid y porthladdoedd ym Mhort Talbot ac Aberdaugleddau yn hybiau ynni gwyrdd modern, porthladdoedd a fydd yn adeiladu ar arbenigedd diwydiannol ein gorffennol gan sicrhau dyfodol mwy disglair a gwyrddach i Gymru. Gan adeiladu ar sylfaen sgiliau arbenigol helaeth, seilwaith trawsyrru a phiblinellau, cyfalaf naturiol a chyfleusterau dosbarthu'r rhanbarth, bydd y porthladd rhydd Celtaidd yn darparu'r sgiliau, y gwasanaethau a'r gofod i ddiwydiannau ffynnu - diwydiannau fel Tata Steel ym Mhort Talbot, un o gyflogwyr mwyaf fy rhanbarth ac un o ddiwydiannau strategol ein gwlad. Mae'r cyfleoedd y mae'r porthladd rhydd Celtaidd yn eu cynnig i waith dur Port Talbot yn niferus, ond y pwysicaf oll yw'r cyfle i chwarae rhan allweddol yn y gwaith o weithgynhyrchu cydrannau ynni gwynt arnofiol ar gyfer y môr Celtaidd, ac yna adeiladu ar y cyfleoedd hynny i allforio i weddill y DU a ledled y byd. Mae gan Tata, gan weithio ochr yn ochr â'r porthladd rhydd Celtaidd, botensial i ddod yn un o gynhyrchwyr dur gwyrdd cyntaf y byd ac i ddatblygu arbenigedd gweithgynhyrchu ar gyfer y genhedlaeth nesaf o ynni adnewyddadwy. Rydym mewn ras i ddatgarboneiddio ein diwydiannau, ein sectorau ynni a'n seilwaith. Os gallwn wneud hynny gyda'r rhain yn gyntaf, gallwn arwain y ffordd, a gallwn elwa hefyd o'r cyfleoedd economaidd ehangach. De Cymru a arweiniodd y chwyldro diwydiannol cyntaf, ac os gallwn chwarae ein cardiau'n iawn, gallwn arwain yr un nesaf. Mae fy rhanbarth yn gartref i'r nifer fwyaf o bobl sy'n gweithio mewn gweithgynhyrchu o gymharu ag unrhyw le arall yng Nghymru, ac er ein bod wedi gweld dirywiad gweithgynhyrchu a diwydiant trwm dros y degawdau diwethaf, mae'r potensial i adeiladu ar y sgiliau hynny'n anfesuradwy. Gyda'r cynllun cywir ar waith, gallwn drawsnewid y rhanbarth a chreu swyddi newydd medrus iawn y mae galw mawr amdanynt, swyddi gwyrdd ym mhob maes, o weldio i wyddor data. Credaf mai cais y porthladd rhydd Celtaidd yw'r cynllun cywir, ac rwy'n annog Llywodraeth Cymru, ynghyd â Llywodraeth y DU, i gefnogi cais y porthladd rhydd Celtaidd. Hoffwn ofyn i fy nghyd-Aelodau gefnogi ein cynnig heddiw hefyd er mwyn cyfleu neges glir i'r ddwy Lywodraeth fod y Senedd hon yn cefnogi'r cais ar gyfer porthladd rhydd yng Nghymru. Diolch yn fawr.

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. I'm grateful for this opportunity to update the Senedd on the free-ports programme in Wales. The Government is content to support the motion, subject to amendment 2. We want to be clear that we're not tied into a particular number of free ports, and I'll talk later on about that as well. I acknowledge Plaid Cymru's focus on the challenges faced by coastal communities in their amendment. The Government won't support amendment 1. Apart from anything else, it wouldn't get to our amendment, but it's a debate more broadly that I think is raised in their amendment that I'm happy to have and one that we will undoubtedly revisit at another time. The focus of the motion tabled today is free ports, and the free-ports model has been designed to apply to every type of port - sea ports, airports and rail ports. I recognise there are different views in the room - some of nuance, some of others - on the pragmatic approach to free ports and some of the broader ideological positions about where people start from and may well end up. Welsh ports, of course, have a long history and have helped to shape the economic, social and cultural fabric of Wales. Today, they remain a central feature in establishing new trading links across the globe and in growing the UK as well as Wales's international trade and investment potential. The free-port programme is a compromise between the UK and Welsh Governments. It has the potential to support our economic priorities across Wales to stimulate a net growth in jobs, create high-quality employment opportunities, and support decarbonisation as part of our journey to net zero. I have been very clear that we are looking to grow not displace economic activity, and I have been very clear that fair work is an essential part of what any free-port bid must deliver.

Diolch, Ddirprwy Lywydd. Rwy'n ddiolchgar am y cyfle hwn i roi'r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf i'r Senedd am y rhaglen porthladdoedd rhydd yng Nghymru. Mae'r Llywodraeth yn fodlon cefnogi'r cynnig, yn amodol ar welliant 2. Rydym am fod yn glir nad ydym wedi ymrwymo i nifer penodol o borthladdoedd rhydd, a byddaf yn sôn am hynny yn nes ymlaen hefyd. Rwy'n cydnabod ffocws Plaid Cymru ar yr heriau a wynebir gan gymunedau arfordirol yn eu gwelliant. Ni fydd y Llywodraeth yn cefnogi gwelliant 1. Ar wahân i unrhyw beth arall, ni fyddai'n arwain at ein gwelliant ninnau, ond credaf fod eu gwelliant yn codi dadl ehangach rwy'n fwy na pharod i'w chael ac y byddwn, heb os, yn ailymweld â hi maes o law. Ffocws y cynnig a gyflwynwyd heddiw yw porthladdoedd rhydd, ac mae'r model porthladdoedd rhydd wedi'i gynllunio i fod yn berthnasol i borthladdoedd o bob math - porthladdoedd môr, meysydd awyr a gorsafoedd trên. Rwy'n cydnabod bod gwahanol safbwyntiau yn yr ystafell - rhai'n fwy gwahanol na'i gilydd - ar yr ymagwedd bragmatig at borthladdoedd rhydd a rhai o'r safbwyntiau ideolegol ehangach ynghylch ble mae pobl yn dechrau ac yn cyrraedd yn y pen draw. Mae gan borthladdoedd Cymru hanes hir wrth gwrs ac maent wedi helpu i lunio gwead economaidd, cymdeithasol a diwylliannol Cymru. Heddiw, maent yn parhau i fod yn nodwedd ganolog wrth sefydlu cysylltiadau masnachu newydd ar draws y byd ac wrth dyfu potensial masnach a buddsoddi rhyngwladol y DU a Chymru. Mae'r rhaglen porthladdoedd rhydd yn gyfaddawd rhwng Llywodraeth y DU a Llywodraeth Cymru. Mae ganddi'r potensial i gefnogi ein blaenoriaethau economaidd ledled Cymru i ysgogi twf net mewn swyddi, creu cyfleoedd cyflogaeth o ansawdd uchel, a chefnogi datgarboneiddio fel rhan o'n taith tuag at sero net. Rwyf wedi dweud yn glir iawn ein bod yn ceisio tyfu yn hytrach na dadleoli gweithgarwch economaidd, ac rwyf wedi dweud yn glir iawn fod gwaith teg yn rhan hanfodol o'r hyn y mae'n rhaid i unrhyw gais porthladd rhydd ei sicrhau.

Minister, thank you for giving way, because there's a danger that this debate can get polarised into you're either pro free ports entirely or against them entirely. But, actually, the pragmatic approach of working with the deck of cards that we are dealt and dealing with that in a pragmatic way, Government to Government and so on, is right, it's the right way to go, but we really have to guard against an idea that everybody becomes a beneficiary here. Because the worst thing for me in that big Bridgend manufacturing belt that you've talked about is that we actually see some of that sucked away into a free-port area and actually losing jobs from walk-to-work areas, part of the foundational economy, jobs in the Valleys and so on. So, if this is going to work, the Welsh Government need to be right in there, actually, and saying to the UK Government, 'The way this will work, to keep jobs in areas, will be this way and not just a free-for-all.'

Weinidog, diolch am ildio, gan fod perygl y gall y ddadl hon droi'n un begynol fel bod rhywun yn gyfan gwbl o blaid neu'n gyfan gwbl yn erbyn porthladdoedd rhydd. Ond mewn gwirionedd, mae'r dull pragmatig o weithio gyda'r dec o gardiau sy'n cael ei ddelio i ni a gwneud hynny mewn ffordd bragmatig, rhwng un Llywodraeth a'r llall ac ati, yn iawn, dyma'r ffordd iawn i fynd, ond mae'n rhaid inni warchod yn erbyn y syniad fod pawb yn elwa yma. Oherwydd y peth gwaethaf i mi yn y rhanbarth gweithgynhyrchu mawr rydych wedi sôn amdano ym Mhen-y-bont ar Ogwr yw ein bod wedi gweld rhywfaint o hynny'n cael ei sugno ymaith i ardal porthladd rhydd a cholli swyddi o ardaloedd lle gellir cerdded i'r gwaith, rhan o'r economi sylfaenol, swyddi yn y Cymoedd ac ati. Felly, os yw hyn yn mynd i weithio, mae angen i Lywodraeth Cymru fynd ati'n weithredol i ddweud wrth Lywodraeth y DU, 'Y ffordd y bydd hyn yn gweithio, er mwyn cadw swyddi mewn ardaloedd, yw fel hyn, ac nid rhyddid i bawb wneud fel y myn.'

I think it's fair to say that if you look at the free-ports programme in England, it's different to the one we have in Wales. The parameters for the bids are different - that's because we did eventually have a sensible conversation between the two Governments. I welcome what Samuel Kurtz said earlier about the fact that the Welsh and the UK Government have worked together. That wasn't without some difficulty. We eventually secured the same UK Treasury offer. You'll recall at one point we were being told that Wales would have half the money of other free ports. We also secured agreement on our priorities - a commitment to a bid needing to meet the requirements of the goals of the Well-being of Future Generations (Wales) Act 2015, and needing to meet our requirements on fair work as well. Those things would not have been in there if the Welsh Government had not been part of reaching a pragmatic agreement on a compromise we can live with. We are now looking to make sure that the competition reaches an end. The closing date for the bids was 24 November last year. Three bids, as has been noted, have been received. My officials are in the process of assessing those bids jointly with UK Government officials. So, as I anticipated in moving this debate, I'm therefore unable to comment on the specific details of any one proposal, to the surprise of no-one. We hope to announce the outcome this spring. So, it should not take much longer. I should say, though, and this goes to part of the reason why there is a Government amendment seeking to change point 3, that if there is to be more than one free port, then the UK Treasury will need to make financial resources available. It should still be the case that there should not be a Welsh free port delivered with devolved powers and us needing to forgo devolved taxes with a lesser settlement from the UK Treasury than any other free port anywhere else. And so there's a challenge there about the bids themselves. And if there is more than one outstanding bid, then the UK Treasury will need to act to make that a reality. I should also make this point clear: free ports are not the sum total of investment opportunities for good, sustainable jobs based around our ports in Wales. Members will recall that only a few weeks ago I updated the Senedd, providing an oral statement on our economic priorities and some of our joint projects with UK Government. There are real benefits where the Welsh Government and UK Government work together, with a partnership founded on mutual respect, where the UK Government discharges its responsibilities in accordance with, not over, the devolution settlement. It's regrettable that this approach has not been extended to other programmes and policies, such as the shared prosperity fund and the levelling-up fund. In my previous oral statement, I set out our long-term plan for stable, future-focused economic growth against a worsening overall economic outlook, the key causes of which are a toxic combination of Brexit, underinvestment and the damage caused by last autumn's mini budget. I was grateful to Tom Giffard for his comedy interlude. I don't share Liz Truss's view on the anti-growth coalition, nor indeed that she fell foul of a left-wing plot, rather than a disastrous market reaction, and the men in grey suits from the 1922 committee visiting her to tell her that her time was up. Her brief time, though, has caused real and lasting harm to mortgage holders, potential house buyers, and business investment. We're still living with the consequences of her choices. The IMF has recently reforecast that the UK will be the only major economy to shrink in 2023 - a very similar UK forecast to the Bank of England's. As concerning is the bank's bleak assessment that the UK economy cannot grow at more than 1 per cent a year without generating inflation. In responding to the motion today, I want to reiterate that what is really needed to energise the UK economy as a whole is a coherent economic direction for recovery and growth, one that is founded on the strengths and strategic choices of each constituent nation, and one that respects devolution and the direct mandate of this Parliament and the Welsh Government. In Wales, we have a plan, and our economic mission remains our focus for a greener, more prosperous and more equal nation. I ask Members to support the Welsh Government amendment in today's debate.

Credaf ei bod yn deg dweud, os edrychwch ar y rhaglen porthladdoedd rhydd yn Lloegr, ei bod yn wahanol i'r un sydd gennym yng Nghymru. Mae'r paramedrau ar gyfer y ceisiadau'n wahanol - mae hynny oherwydd inni gael sgwrs synhwyrol yn y pen draw rhwng y ddwy Lywodraeth. Rwy'n croesawu'r hyn a ddywedodd Samuel Kurtz yn gynharach am y ffaith bod Llywodraeth Cymru a'r DU wedi cydweithio. Nid oedd hynny heb ei anawsterau. Yn y pen draw, fe lwyddwyd i gael yr un cynnig gan Drysorlys y DU. Fe gofiwch ar un adeg y dywedwyd wrthym y byddai Cymru'n cael hanner arian y porthladdoedd rhydd eraill. Fe wnaethom hefyd sicrhau cytundeb ar ein blaenoriaethau - ymrwymiad i'r gofyniad i gais fodloni gofynion nodau Deddf Llesiant Cenedlaethau'r Dyfodol (Cymru) 2015, ac i fodloni ein gofynion ar waith teg hefyd. Ni fyddai'r pethau hynny wedi bod yno pe na bai Llywodraeth Cymru wedi bod yn rhan o'r broses o ddod i gytundeb pragmatig ar gyfaddawd y gallwn fyw gydag ef. Rydym yn ceisio sicrhau nawr fod y gystadleuaeth yn cyrraedd pen draw. Y dyddiad cau ar gyfer y cynigion oedd 24 Tachwedd y llynedd. Fel y nodwyd, daeth tri chais i law. Mae fy swyddogion yn y broses o asesu'r ceisiadau hynny ar y cyd â swyddogion Llywodraeth y DU. Felly, fel y rhagwelais wrth gynnig y ddadl hon, ni allaf wneud sylw ar fanylion penodol unrhyw gynnig, er mawr syndod i neb. Gobeithiwn allu cyhoeddi'r canlyniad y gwanwyn hwn. Felly, ni ddylai gymryd llawer mwy o amser. Dylwn ddweud, serch hynny, ac mae hyn yn rhan o'r rheswm pam fod gwelliant gan y Llywodraeth sy'n ceisio newid pwynt 3, sef, os oes mwy nag un porthladd rhydd, bydd angen i Drysorlys y DU ddarparu'r adnoddau ariannol. Dylai fod yn wir o hyd na ddylid cyflwyno porthladd rhydd yng Nghymru gyda phwerau datganoledig lle byddai angen inni hepgor trethi datganoledig gyda setliad llai gan Drysorlys y DU nag unrhyw borthladd rhydd yn unman arall. Ac felly, mae her yn hynny ynghylch y ceisiadau eu hunain. Ac os oes mwy nag un cais yn sefyll allan, bydd angen i Drysorlys y DU weithredu i wireddu hynny. Dylwn hefyd nodi'r pwynt hwn yn glir: nid porthladdoedd rhydd yw'r unig gyfleoedd buddsoddi er mwyn sicrhau swyddi da, cynaliadwy mewn perthynas â'n porthladdoedd yng Nghymru. Bydd yr Aelodau'n cofio imi roi'r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf i'r Senedd ychydig wythnosau'n ôl yn unig, gan wneud datganiad llafar ar ein blaenoriaethau economaidd a rhai o'r prosiectau sydd ar waith gennym ar y cyd â Llywodraeth y DU. Ceir manteision gwirioneddol pan fo Llywodraeth Cymru a Llywodraeth y DU yn gweithio gyda'i gilydd, gyda phartneriaeth sy'n seiliedig ar barch cydradd, lle mae Llywodraeth y DU yn cyflawni ei chyfrifoldebau yn unol â'r setliad datganoli, nid ar ei draul. Mae'n anffodus nad yw'r dull gweithredu hwn wedi'i ymestyn i raglenni a pholisïau eraill, megis y gronfa ffyniant gyffredin a'r gronfa ffyniant bro. Yn fy natganiad llafar blaenorol, nodais ein cynllun hirdymor ar gyfer twf economaidd sefydlog sy'n canolbwyntio ar y dyfodol yn erbyn rhagolygon economaidd cyffredinol sy'n gwaethygu, a'r prif achosion am hynny yw cyfuniad gwenwynig o Brexit, tanfuddsoddiad a'r difrod a achoswyd gan gyllideb fach yr hydref diwethaf. Roeddwn yn ddiolchgar i Tom Giffard am ei egwyl gomedi. Nid wyf yn rhannu barn Liz Truss ynglŷn â'r gynghrair wrth-dwf, nac yn wir ei bod wedi syrthio i fagl cynllwyn asgell chwith, yn hytrach nag ymateb trychinebus gan y farchnad, a'r dynion mewn siwtiau llwyd o bwyllgor 1922 yn ymweld â hi i ddweud wrthi fod ei hamser ar ben. Fodd bynnag, mae ei hamser byr wedi achosi niwed gwirioneddol a pharhaol i ddeiliaid morgeisi, darpar brynwyr tai, a buddsoddiad busnes. Rydym yn dal i fyw gyda chanlyniadau ei dewisiadau. Mae'r Gronfa Ariannol Ryngwladol wedi gwneud ail ragolwg yn ddiweddar a nodai mai'r DU fydd yr unig economi fawr i grebachu yn 2023 - rhagolwg ar gyfer y DU sy'n debyg iawn i un Banc Lloegr. Mae asesiad llwm y banc na all economi'r DU dyfu mwy nag 1 y cant y flwyddyn heb gynhyrchu chwyddiant yn peri llawn cymaint o bryder. Wrth ymateb i'r cynnig heddiw, hoffwn ailadrodd mai'r hyn sydd ei angen mewn gwirionedd i fywiogi economi'r DU yn ei chyfanrwydd yw cyfeiriad economaidd cydlynol ar gyfer adferiad a thwf, un sy'n seiliedig ar gryfderau a dewisiadau strategol pob un o'r gwledydd cyfansoddol, ac un sy'n parchu datganoli a mandad uniongyrchol y Senedd hon a Llywodraeth Cymru. Yng Nghymru, mae gennym gynllun, a'n cenhadaeth economaidd yw ein ffocws o hyd ar gyfer cenedl wyrddach, fwy llewyrchus a mwy cyfartal. Gofynnaf i'r Aelodau gefnogi gwelliant Llywodraeth Cymru yn y ddadl heddiw.

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. Can I say what a pleasure it is to be able to close today's Welsh Conservatives debate on free ports, submitted in the name of my colleague Darren Millar? As outlined by Paul Davies in opening today's debate and outlined in point 1 of our motion, free ports have a role in really energising the Welsh economy. As the Minister just mentioned there, they're certainly not the be-all and end-all, but have a significant role in helping our economy move forward. We've been clear from our benches here today as Conservatives that we recognise the significant opportunities that come from free ports, and this includes the investment, high-quality jobs, and regeneration. I was disappointed to hear not a similar level of recognition from other benches in the Chamber here today, because as outlined by Paul Davies in opening, a free-port policy brings investment, trade and more jobs right across Wales, to make sure those industries of yesterday are being replaced by green and innovative, fast-growing, new businesses. In the debate today, we heard from Luke Fletcher a certain amount of cynicism and suspicion of free ports, which did seem at odds to the bid from Anglesey county council, a Plaid Cymru council there, and of course from Plaid Cymru colleagues in north Wales, who are enthusiastically supporting some of the bids. We also heard from Natasha Asghar about the real status that free ports have to attract new trade and manufacturing activity, which Sam Kurtz was keen to outline as new trade, new businesses and new jobs that can be created through these. A number of Members highlighted where there are already agreed free ports taking place in the UK. We're seeing thousands of those new, high-skilled jobs being set up, both with public and private sector investment. What's been highlighted today, of course, is Members certainly seeking to highlight the free ports in their patch. Of course, I'll be very keen to highlight and remind Members of the free-port bid in Anglesey, but we'll talk about that a little bit more in a moment, because colleagues - Samuel Kurtz, Paul Davies, Tom Giffard and Altaf Hussain - highlighted the Celtic free-port bid, proposing to create a green innovation and investment corridor with sites at Port Talbot and Milford Haven, with Pembrokeshire council believing that the proposed clean energy developments, fuel terminals, power station and hydrogen fuel innovation will all thrive. There are some tongue-twister words there. But sadly, Joyce Watson didn't seem to be able to have the same level of enthusiasm for that bid, which was disappointing to hear from that contribution. Natasha Asghar pointed out, also, the Newport City Council bid, launching the free-port bid for Cardiff Airport, which would result in multisite free ports in south-east Wales covering a number of underdeveloped employment sites across the Cardiff capital region. And the third free-port bid that was highlighted, Rhun ap Iorwerth said he was in full support of the Port of Holyhead free-port bid, which has also seen great support from Isle of Anglesey County Council, Stena Line, other businesses and, of course, consistent and clear support from the MP for Ynys Môn, Virginia Crosbie. As we know, Ynys Môn has unique characteristics and opportunities that make it an extremely attractive place for the establishment of a new free port. The area's proud trading history is underpinned by world-leading port infrastructure and the potential to become a green energy superpower. [ Interruption. ] Is that an intervention there, Mike?

Diolch, Ddirprwy Lywydd. A gaf fi ddweud ei bod yn bleser gallu cloi dadl y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig heddiw ar borthladdoedd rhydd, a gyflwynwyd yn enw fy nghyd-Aelod Darren Millar? Fel yr amlinellwyd gan Paul Davies wrth agor y ddadl heddiw ac fel y nodwyd ym mhwynt 1 ein cynnig, mae gan borthladdoedd rhydd rôl i'w chwarae yn hybu economi Cymru. Fel y mae'r Gweinidog newydd ei grybwyll, yn sicr, nid ydynt yn ateb i bob dim, ond mae ganddynt rôl bwysig i'w chwarae wrth helpu ein heconomi i symud ymlaen. Rydym wedi dweud yn glir ar y meinciau hyn heddiw fel Ceidwadwyr ein bod yn cydnabod y cyfleoedd sylweddol a ddaw yn sgil porthladdoedd rhydd, ac mae hyn yn cynnwys y buddsoddiad, swyddi o ansawdd uchel, ac adfywio. Roeddwn yn siomedig i glywed na chafwyd lefel debyg o gydnabyddiaeth gan feinciau eraill yn y Siambr yma heddiw, oherwydd fel y nododd Paul Davies wrth agor, mae polisi porthladdoedd rhydd yn darparu buddsoddiad, masnach a mwy o swyddi ledled Cymru, i sicrhau bod busnesau newydd gwyrdd ac arloesol sy'n tyfu'n gyflym yn dod i gymryd lle diwydiannau ddoe. Yn y ddadl heddiw, clywsom rywfaint o sinigiaeth ac amheuaeth gan Luke Fletcher ynghylch porthladdoedd rhydd, a oedd i'w weld yn groes i'r cais gan gyngor sir Ynys Môn, cyngor Plaid Cymru yno, ac wrth gwrs, yn groes i gyd-aelodau o Blaid Cymru yng ngogledd Cymru, sy'n frwd eu cefnogaeth i rai o'r ceisiadau. Clywsom hefyd gan Natasha Asghar am y statws gwirioneddol sydd gan borthladdoedd rhydd i ddenu gweithgarwch masnach a gweithgynhyrchu newydd, rhywbeth roedd Sam Kurtz yn awyddus i'w ddisgrifio fel masnach newydd, busnesau newydd a swyddi newydd y gellir eu creu drwy'r rhain. Tynnodd nifer o'r Aelodau sylw at y mannau lle mae porthladdoedd rhydd eisoes ar waith yn y DU. Rydym yn gweld miloedd o'r swyddi newydd medrus hynny'n cael eu creu, gyda buddsoddiad gan y sector cyhoeddus a'r sector preifat. Yr hyn sydd wedi bod yn amlwg heddiw, wrth gwrs, yw Aelodau'n ceisio tynnu sylw at y porthladdoedd rhydd yn eu hardaloedd hwy. Wrth gwrs, rwy'n awyddus iawn i dynnu sylw ac i atgoffa Aelodau o'r cais am borthladd rhydd yn Ynys Môn, ond fe soniwn fwy am hynny mewn eiliad, gan i fy nghyd-Aelodau - Samuel Kurtz, Paul Davies, Tom Giffard ac Altaf Hussain - dynnu sylw at gais y porthladd rhydd Celtaidd, sy'n cynnig creu coridor arloesi a buddsoddi gwyrdd gyda safleoedd ym Mhort Talbot ac yn Aberdaugleddau, gyda chyngor sir Benfro yn credu y bydd y datblygiadau ynni glân arfaethedig, terfynellau tanwydd, gorsaf ynni ac arloesedd tanwydd hydrogen oll yn ffynnu. Mae rhai geiriau anodd ei dweud yno. Ond yn anffodus, nid oedd yn ymddangos bod gan Joyce Watson yr un lefel o frwdfrydedd dros y cais hwnnw, a oedd yn siomedig i'w glywed o'r cyfraniad hwnnw. Tynnodd Natasha Asghar sylw, hefyd, at gais Cyngor Dinas Casnewydd, a lansiodd y cais porthladd rhydd ar gyfer Maes Awyr Caerdydd, a fyddai'n arwain at borthladdoedd rhydd aml-safle yn y de-ddwyrain i gwmpasu nifer o safleoedd cyflogaeth nad ydynt wedi'u datblygu'n ddigonol ar draws prifddinas-ranbarth Caerdydd. A'r trydydd cais porthladd rhydd y tynnwyd sylw ato, fe ddywedodd Rhun ap Iorwerth ei fod yn cefnogi cais porthladd rhydd Caergybi yn llwyr, sydd hefyd wedi cael cryn dipyn o gefnogaeth gan Gyngor Sir Ynys Môn, Stena Line, busnesau eraill, ac wrth gwrs, cefnogaeth gyson a chlir gan AS Ynys Môn, Virginia Crosbie. Fel y gwyddom, mae gan Ynys Môn nodweddion a chyfleoedd unigryw sy'n ei wneud yn lle hynod ddeniadol ar gyfer sefydlu porthladd rhydd newydd. Caiff hanes masnachu balch yr ardal ei ategu gan seilwaith porthladd o'r radd flaenaf a'r potensial i ddod yn uwch bŵer ynni gwyrdd. [ Torri ar draws.] A oeddech am wneud ymyriad, Mike?

Is that an intervention, Deputy Presiding Officer? [ Laughter.]

Ai ymyriad yw hwnnw, Ddirprwy Lywydd? [ Chwerthin.]

Thank you very much. In addition to this, analysis conducted by the Centre for Economics and Business Research indicates that Anglesey free port could bring up to 13,000 jobs to north Wales over a 15-year period. It could also increase GDP across the UK by a significant amount by 2030. Along with this, Stena Line, as already mentioned, states that free-port status would simplify the passing of lorries through the port there as well. The final point of my contribution today, with which I'd like to finish, Dirprwy Lywydd, is a reminder that the benefits of a free port cannot be underestimated, bringing much-needed jobs and investment into some of the areas of Wales that need to see that growth the most. That's something that Tom Giffard was keen to point out. For the areas of Wales that need that growth the most, free ports will be able to bring it forward [ Interruption.] Sorry?

Diolch yn fawr iawn. Yn ogystal â hyn, mae dadansoddiad a gyflawnwyd gan y Ganolfan Economeg ac Ymchwil Busnes yn dangos y gallai porthladd rhydd Ynys Môn ddod â hyd at 13,000 o swyddi i ogledd Cymru dros gyfnod o 15 mlynedd. Gallai hefyd godi cynnyrch domestig gros ar draws y DU erbyn 2030. Hefyd, mae Stena Line, fel y soniwyd eisoes, yn dweud y byddai statws porthladd rhydd yn symleiddio'r gwaith o symud lorïau drwy'r porthladd yno hefyd. Pwynt olaf fy nghyfraniad heddiw yr hoffwn orffen gydag ef, Ddirprwy Lywydd, yw ein hatgoffa na ellir tanbrisio manteision porthladd rhydd i ddod â swyddi a buddsoddiad mawr eu hangen i mewn i rai o ardaloedd Cymru sydd fwyaf o angen gweld y twf hwnnw. Mae hynny'n rhywbeth roedd Tom Giffard yn awyddus i dynnu sylw ato. I ardaloedd Cymru sydd fwyaf o angen y twf hwnnw, bydd porthladdoedd rhydd yn gallu ei gynnig. [ Torri ar draws. ] Mae'n ddrwg gennyf?

It's only a brief point, because the differences I've been expressing today are not to do with one of the single bids, it's the disadvantages that case studies have shown over free ports and enterprise zones - that's actually in your amendment. So, you've not acknowledged at all that there are disadvantages or addressed how we avoid them.

Pwynt byr yn unig, oherwydd nid yw'r gwahaniaethau y bûm yn eu mynegi heddiw yn ymwneud ag unrhyw un o'r ceisiadau unigol, ond yn hytrach â'r anfanteision y mae astudiaethau achos wedi'u dangos gyda phorthladdoedd rhydd ac ardaloedd menter - mae hynny yn eich gwelliant mewn gwirionedd. Felly, nid ydych wedi cydnabod o gwbl fod yna anfanteision nac wedi mynd i'r afael â sut rydym yn eu hosgoi.

I think with every proposal, there are difficult things to deal with, but the opportunities here aren't being acknowledged by the benches on the other side of the Chamber either - the opportunities for jobs being created are not being acknowledged, the new jobs, new business and new innovation are not being acknowledged at the same level or enthusiastically grasped a hold of. The risk, I suppose, is that if we don't do that here in Wales, those jobs will go elsewhere across the United Kingdom or elsewhere outside of the United Kingdom altogether. As expressed eloquently and passionately by Members across the Chamber, and indeed everywhere across Wales, these bids will help to transform our local communities, and I appreciate the Minister's response outlining his role in providing pragmatic support where possible through this. And it's essential, of course, that that support continues, with both UK and Welsh Government working together as well as possible to deliver those free ports for us here in Wales, maximising the opportunities that these bids have to offer. So, I thank all Members and the Minister for responding to today's debate, and I call on all Members to support the Welsh Conservatives' motion unamended. Diolch yn fawr iawn.

Gyda phob cynnig, mae pethau anodd i ymdrin â hwy yn fy marn i, ond nid yw'r cyfleoedd yma'n cael eu cydnabod gan y meinciau ar ochr arall i'r Siambr ychwaith - nid yw'r cyfleoedd ar gyfer creu swyddi'n cael eu cydnabod, nid yw'r swyddi newydd, y busnes newydd a'r arloesedd newydd yn cael eu cydnabod ar yr un lefel neu'n cael eu bachu'n frwdfrydig. Os na wnawn ni hynny yma yng Nghymru, rwy'n tybio mai'r risg yw y bydd y swyddi hynny'n mynd i fannau eraill ar draws y Deyrnas Unedig neu rywle arall y tu allan i'r Deyrnas Unedig yn gyfan gwbl. Fel y mynegwyd yn huawdl ac yn angerddol gan Aelodau ar draws y Siambr, ac yn wir ym mhob man ledled Cymru, bydd y ceisiadau hyn yn helpu i drawsnewid ein cymunedau lleol, ac rwy'n gwerthfawrogi ymateb y Gweinidog yn amlinellu ei rôl yn darparu cefnogaeth bragmatig lle bo hynny'n bosibl drwy hyn. Ac mae'n hanfodol, wrth gwrs, fod y gefnogaeth honno'n parhau, gyda Llywodraeth y DU a Llywodraeth Cymru yn cydweithio gystal â phosibl i ddarparu'r porthladdoedd rhydd hynny i ni yma yng Nghymru, gan wneud y gorau o'r cyfleoedd sy'n deillio o'r ceisiadau hyn. Felly, diolch i'r holl Aelodau a'r Gweinidog am ymateb i'r ddadl heddiw, ac rwy'n galw ar bob Aelod i gefnogi cynnig y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig heb ei ddiwygio. Diolch yn fawr iawn.

The proposal is to agree the motion without amendment. Does any Member object? [ Objection.] I hear an objection, so I'll defer voting under this item until voting time.

Y cwestiwn yw: a ddylid derbyn y cynnig heb ei ddiwygio? A oes unrhyw Aelod yn gwrthwynebu? [ Gwrthwynebiad.] Dwi'n clywed gwrthwynebiad, felly gohiriaf y bleidlais ar y cynnig tan y cyfnod pleidleisio.

Item 7 today is the Plaid Cymru debate on income tax devolution, and I call on Adam Price to move the motion.

Eitem 7 heddiw yw dadl Plaid Cymru ar ddatganoli treth incwm, a galwaf ar Adam Price i wneud y cynnig.

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. Our motion today seeks to ensure that we in Wales have the power to set bands for income tax as well as rates. Now, it sounds like a fairly dry and technical debate, but actually it goes really to some pretty fundamental questions - two fundamental questions that every nation needs to answer through its democratic process. The first is: what should the size of the state be, i.e. what proportion of GDP should be alloted to public expenditure? And the second is how progressive the tax system we use to fund that public expenditure should be. And the question for us in this debate is where those powers should lie. Are we content for those decisions to be made in Westminster, or should we take them for ourselves here in Wales? Now, clearly, as a party that has as its central goal Wales becoming an independent nation, we clearly want those powers here and want those decisions made by the democratically elected representatives of the people of Wales. But, we would argue that progressives who support the principle of Welsh democratic self-government, even in the context of a continuing UK, should support the devolution of income tax bands, and I hope, in the course of my remarks, Dirprwy Lywydd, to outline why.

Diolch, Ddirprwy Lywydd. Mae ein cynnig heddiw yn ceisio sicrhau bod gennym ni yng Nghymru bŵer i osod bandiau ar gyfer treth incwm yn ogystal ag ardrethi. Nawr, mae'n swnio fel dadl weddol sych a thechnegol, ond mewn gwirionedd mae'n ymwneud â chwestiynau eithaf sylfaenol - dau gwestiwn sylfaenol y mae angen i bob cenedl eu hateb drwy ei phroses ddemocrataidd. Y cyntaf yw: beth ddylai maint y wladwriaeth fod, h.y. pa gyfran o gynnyrch domestig gros y dylid ei neilltuo i wariant cyhoeddus? A'r ail yw pa mor flaengar yw'r system dreth a ddefnyddiwn i ariannu'r gwariant cyhoeddus hwnnw. A'r cwestiwn i ni yn y ddadl hon yw lle dylai'r pwerau hynny fod. A ydym yn fodlon i'r penderfyniadau hynny gael eu gwneud yn San Steffan, neu a ddylem eu cymryd i ni'n hunain yma yng Nghymru? Nawr, yn amlwg, fel plaid sydd â nod canolog o weld Cymru'n dod yn wlad annibynnol, rydym yn amlwg eisiau i'r pwerau hynny fodoli yma ac rydym am weld y penderfyniadau hynny'n cael eu gwneud gan gynrychiolwyr pobl Cymru a etholwyd yn ddemocrataidd. Ond byddem yn dadlau y dylai pobl flaengar sy'n cefnogi'r egwyddor o hunanlywodraeth ddemocrataidd i Gymru, hyd yn oed yng nghyd-destun parhad y DU, gefnogi datganoli bandiau treth incwm, ac yn fy sylwadau, Ddirprwy Lywydd, rwy'n gobeithio dangos pam.

There are two principal reasons, really. One, it would enable us to raise additional revenue for public expenditure to create the kind of decent society we want to be, and to do so in a fairer way by creating a more progressive tax structure here in Wales. So, take that first point - raising more revenue. The problem with the current system of tax devolution that we have is that it makes it very difficult for us to raise additional revenue. We saw an example of why didn't we in the debate yesterday on the income tax rates; we have to stick, at the moment, to the tax bands and thresholds set by the UK Government. And because the lion's share of the Welsh rates of income tax are raised through the basic rate, we have to use that basic rate to raise the more significant sums, and there is resistance to doing so, because there's no way of directly cushioning the lowest paid. This is why those income tax powers have never been used here since we secured them; that's why Scotland didn't use those income tax powers before 2016, when it was at last given the power to vary income tax bands and thresholds. There was no use of the original right to vary the basic rate by 3p that the Scottish Parliament was given in 1999; no use of the right to vary each band by up to 10p, which they were given following the Calman commission report in 2012 - essentially the same power as we have now. Now, some people have said that the income tax powers that we have now and they had then were unusable. Now, we don't accept that in Plaid Cymru, as we argued yesterday; it's a matter of political will. And at a time of crisis, even given the constraints and the deficiencies, there comes a time where you have to use those powers, for the reasons that we've outlined, to defend public services in an age of austerity. But there are barriers, clearly, which make it more difficult than it should be for us to use the powers currently, and you have to ask the Government, if they're not prepared to use the existing powers - even under these circumstances - what's the point of having them? What's the point of sustaining the cost and the institutional architecture of these powers if they will never be used? And, the consequence of us not using them is that our fiscal capacity, our ability to do what is necessary for our people, will be decided not by us, but for us by a Parliament in another place. That's not a great place for us to be, is it? It will limit our ability to do our work, to deliver on the task of improving the lives of the people of Wales with which we've been charged, because we'll be at the mercy of a Westminster consensus that believes that a Nordic level of public service is somehow compatible with North American levels of tax. Because Scotland is free to set income tax bands and thresholds, it has been able to use those tax powers; it's got a starter rate, an intermediate rate, which allows it to increase the basic rate in a fair and proportionate way. The Scottish Government's increasing that basic rate: that was the first time that any Government in the UK has increased the basic rate since 1975 - a historic moment - because of this flexibility. At the upper end of the income scale, it's been able to increase rates and set thresholds in a way that reflects the income tax structure of Scotland, rather than the UK, and according to the Scottish Fiscal Commission, the divergence between Scottish rates of income tax and the UK tax policy since 2017 is now generating £1 billion extra in revenue for public services in Scotland, and that will rise to £1.5 billion in 2026. These are substantial sums, and the Scottish Trades Union Congress has suggested some additional changes recently: some new bands, and moving the top rate to 48 per cent, as we suggested in our amendment yesterday, which would raise an additional £900 million on top of that existing £1 billion. And if that was applied to Wales, equivalent in terms of our tax base, we'd be looking at an additional £400 million to £500 million next year available to us. So, it raises additional revenue. Secondly, it creates a more progressive tax structure. The Institute for Fiscal Studies has concluded that Scotland has the most progressive tax structure in the UK, more progressive than here in Wales, and it's done that through a whole series of interventions, consistently now over the last five years, the first in 2017, it diverged there by introducing a lower threshold for the higher rate. In 2019, it didn't increase the higher rate threshold in line with the rest of the UK. Thresholds for the higher and top rate payers were frozen in 2021, et cetera, et cetera. So, over the last five years, the Scottish Government has consistently, at every juncture, created a more progressive tax structure than England and Wales. The STUC has pointed out ways in which they could go further along this path by increasing the top rate further, as I said, and creating a lower threshold for its payment, plus the introduction of a new sixth rate in between the higher and top rate. It's because Scotland has this flexibility that you can have this kind of progressive innovation. The Institute for Public Policy Research have suggested that you could go even further; you could actually scrap tax bands altogether and replace them with, effectively, a constant gradual increase in the marginal rate of tax. That would be the most progressive system of all, similar to the kind of system that, actually, is available in many European countries. That's what we could do in Wales if we had these powers, and so the rewards there, in policy terms, are very, very clear: substantial additional revenue, plus the ability to create a much more progressive tax structure, and all that that means in terms of socioeconomic impact in a country that, sadly, is blighted by deep, deep poverty. Now, the rewards are there. I'm sure that the Minister, when she shares the Welsh Government view, will talk, as she did in committee recently, about the risks. Well, let's look at some of those risks that the finance Minister referred to in committee. In the short run, greater volatility and unpredictability of revenue. Well, let's look at the current system. The Welsh Government - you yourself said that the budget that you now have is worth up to £1 billion less next year compared with when it was originally announced, and up to £3 billion less over the three-year spending review period from 2022-23 to 2024-25. That's the existing system that you're defending, Minister, which actually is volatile and unpredictable. So, that's the system that we have. The system in Scotland allows us to buffer unpredictability, because of their ability to generate substantial additional revenue. The other risk that was referred to is the long-term revenue risk, the risk of the Welsh tax base growing more slowly. Of course, the flipside to that is that the Welsh tax base could grow faster. In fact, that's what happened, of late, isn't it? The revenues from the Welsh rate in 2021 exceeded the associated block grant adjustment, providing an additional £62 million to fund public services in Wales. But you can mitigate -

Mae dau brif reswm, mewn gwirionedd. Un, byddai'n ein galluogi i godi refeniw ychwanegol ar gyfer gwariant cyhoeddus i greu'r math o gymdeithas weddus rydym am fod, a gwneud hynny mewn ffordd decach drwy greu strwythur trethu mwy blaengar yma yng Nghymru. Felly, cymerwch y pwynt cyntaf hwnnw - codi mwy o refeniw. Y broblem gyda'r system bresennol o ddatganoli trethi sydd gennym yw ei bod yn ei gwneud hi'n anodd iawn inni godi refeniw ychwanegol. Gwelsom enghraifft o pam na wnaethom hynny yn y ddadl ddoe ar y cyfraddau treth incwm; ar hyn o bryd, mae'n rhaid inni lynu at y bandiau treth a'r trothwyon a osodwyd gan Lywodraeth y DU. Ac oherwydd bod y rhan fwyaf o'r cyfraddau Cymreig o dreth incwm yn cael eu codi drwy'r gyfradd sylfaenol, mae'n rhaid inni ddefnyddio'r gyfradd sylfaenol honno i godi'r symiau mwy sylweddol, ac mae gwrthwynebiad i wneud hynny, am nad oes modd lliniaru'r effeithiau ar y rhai ar y cyflogau isaf yn uniongyrchol. Dyma pam nad yw'r pwerau treth incwm hynny erioed wedi cael eu defnyddio yma ers i ni eu cael; dyna pam nad oedd yr Alban yn defnyddio'r pwerau treth incwm hynny cyn 2016, pan gafodd y pŵer o'r diwedd i amrywio bandiau a throthwyon treth incwm. Ni wnaed defnydd o'r hawl wreiddiol i amrywio'r gyfradd sylfaenol hyd at 3c a roddwyd i Senedd yr Alban yn 1999; dim defnydd o'r hawl i amrywio pob band hyd at 10c, a roddwyd iddynt yn dilyn adroddiad comisiwn Calman yn 2012 - yr un pŵer yn y bôn ag sydd gennym ni ar hyn o bryd. Nawr, mae rhai pobl wedi dweud nad oedd modd defnyddio'r pwerau treth incwm sydd gennym ni nawr ac a oedd ganddynt hwy bryd hynny. Nawr, nid ydym yn derbyn hynny ym Mhlaid Cymru, fel y gwnaethon ddadlau ddoe; mae'n fater o ewyllys wleidyddol. Ac ar adeg o argyfwng, hyd yn oed o ystyried y cyfyngiadau a'r diffygion, daw amser pan fo'n rhaid ichi ddefnyddio'r pwerau hynny am y rhesymau a amlinellwyd, i ddiogelu gwasanaethau cyhoeddus mewn cyfnod o gyni. Ond mae yna rwystrau, yn amlwg, sy'n ei gwneud hi'n anos nag y dylai fod inni ddefnyddio'r pwerau ar hyn o bryd, ac mae'n rhaid i chi ofyn i'r Llywodraeth, os nad ydynt yn barod i ddefnyddio'r pwerau presennol - hyd yn oed yn yr amgylchiadau hyn - pa bwynt eu cael? Pa bwynt cynnal cost a phensaernïaeth sefydliadol y pwerau hyn os na fyddant byth yn cael eu defnyddio? A chanlyniad peidio â'u defnyddio yw y bydd ein gallu cyllidol, ein gallu i wneud yr hyn sy'n angenrheidiol i'n pobl, yn cael ei benderfynu nid gennym ni, ond ar ein rhan gan Senedd mewn man arall. Nid yw hwnnw'n lle gwych inni fod, nac ydy? Bydd yn cyfyngu ar ein gallu i wneud ein gwaith, i gyflawni'r dasg o wella bywydau pobl Cymru y cawsom ein hethol i'w gwneud, oherwydd byddwn ar drugaredd consensws San Steffan sy'n credu bod lefel Nordig o wasanaeth cyhoeddus rywsut yn gydnaws â lefelau treth tebyg i Ogledd America. Gan fod yr Alban yn rhydd i osod bandiau a throthwyon treth incwm, mae wedi gallu defnyddio'r pwerau treth hynny; mae ganddi gyfradd gychwynnol, cyfradd ganolraddol, sy'n ei galluogi i gynyddu'r gyfradd sylfaenol mewn ffordd deg a chymesur. Cynyddodd Llywodraeth yr Alban y gyfradd sylfaenol honno: dyna'r tro cyntaf i unrhyw Lywodraeth yn y DU gynyddu'r gyfradd sylfaenol ers 1975 - moment hanesyddol - oherwydd yr hyblygrwydd hwn. Ar ben uchaf y raddfa incwm, mae wedi gallu cynyddu cyfraddau a gosod trothwyon mewn ffordd sy'n adlewyrchu strwythur treth incwm yr Alban yn hytrach na'r DU, ac yn ôl Comisiwn Cyllid yr Alban, mae'r gwahaniaeth rhwng cyfraddau treth incwm yr Alban a pholisi treth y DU ers 2017 bellach yn cynhyrchu £1 biliwn ychwanegol mewn refeniw ar gyfer gwasanaethau cyhoeddus yn yr Alban, a bydd hynny'n codi i £1.5 biliwn yn 2026. Mae'r rhain yn symiau sylweddol, ac mae Cyngres Undebau Llafur yr Alban wedi awgrymu newidiadau ychwanegol yn ddiweddar: bandiau newydd, a symud y gyfradd uchaf i 48 y cant, fel yr awgrymwyd yn ein gwelliant ddoe, a fyddai'n codi £900 miliwn ychwanegol ar ben y £1 biliwn sy'n bodoli eisoes. A phe bai hynny'n cael ei gymhwyso i Gymru, yn gyfatebol i'n sylfaen dreth, byddem yn edrych ar £400 miliwn i £500 miliwn ychwanegol i fod ar gael i ni y flwyddyn nesaf. Felly, mae'n codi refeniw ychwanegol. Yn ail, mae'n creu strwythur treth mwy blaengar. Daeth y Sefydliad Astudiaethau Cyllid i'r casgliad mai gan yr Alban y mae'r strwythur treth mwyaf blaengar yn y DU, yn fwy blaengar nag yma yng Nghymru, ac mae wedi gwneud hynny drwy gyfres o ymyriadau yn gyson bellach dros y pum mlynedd diwethaf, a thrwy'r ymyrraeth gyntaf yn 2017, fe ddilynodd lwybr gwahanol yno drwy gyflwyno trothwy is ar gyfer y gyfradd uwch. Yn 2019, ni chododd drothwy'r gyfradd uwch yn unol â gweddill y DU. Cafodd trothwyon ar gyfer talwyr y gyfradd uwch ac uchaf eu rhewi yn 2021, ac ati, ac ati. Felly, dros y pum mlynedd diwethaf, mae Llywodraeth yr Alban yn gyson, ar bob cyfle, wedi creu strwythur treth mwy blaengar na Chymru a Lloegr. Mae Cyngres Undebau Llafur yr Alban wedi tynnu sylw at ffyrdd y gallent fynd ymhellach ar hyd y llwybr hwn drwy godi'r gyfradd uchaf ymhellach, fel y dywedais, a chreu trothwy is ar gyfer ei dalu, ynghyd â chyflwyno chweched cyfradd newydd rhwng y gyfradd uwch a'r gyfradd uchaf. Gallwch gael y math hwn o arloesedd blaengar oherwydd bod gan yr Alban hyblygrwydd o'r fath. Mae'r Sefydliad Ymchwil Polisi Cyhoeddus wedi awgrymu y gallech fynd ymhellach eto; mewn gwirionedd, gallech gael gwared ar fandiau treth yn gyfan gwbl a chael cynnydd graddol cyson, i bob pwrpas, yn y gyfradd dreth ymylol yn eu lle. Dyna fyddai'r system fwyaf blaengar oll, yn debyg i'r math o system sydd i'w chael mewn gwirionedd mewn llawer o wledydd Ewropeaidd. Gallem wneud hynny yng Nghymru pe bai gennym y pwerau hyn, ac felly mae'r enillion, yn nhermau polisi, yn glir iawn: refeniw ychwanegol sylweddol, ynghyd â'r gallu i greu strwythur treth llawer mwy blaengar, a'r cyfan y mae hynny'n ei olygu o ran effaith economaidd-gymdeithasol mewn gwlad sydd, yn anffodus, wedi'i deifio gan dlodi dwfn. Nawr, mae'r enillion yno. Rwy'n siŵr y bydd y Gweinidog, pan fydd yn rhannu barn Llywodraeth Cymru, yn siarad am y risgiau, fel y gwnaeth mewn pwyllgor yn ddiweddar. Wel, gadewch inni edrych ar rai o'r risgiau y cyfeiriodd y Gweinidog cyllid atynt yn y pwyllgor. Yn y tymor byr, mwy o anwadalwch a refeniw anrhagweladwy. Wel, gadewch inni edrych ar y system bresennol. Dywedodd Llywodraeth Cymru - fe ddywedoch chi eich hun fod y gyllideb sydd gennych nawr yn werth hyd at £1 biliwn yn llai y flwyddyn nesaf o'i gymharu â phan gafodd ei chyhoeddi'n wreiddiol, a hyd at £3 biliwn yn llai dros y cyfnod adolygu gwariant tair blynedd o 2022-23 i 2024-25. Dyna'r system bresennol rydych chi'n ei hamddiffyn, Weinidog, system sy'n anwadal ac yn anrhagweladwy mewn gwirionedd. Felly, dyna'r system sydd gyda ni. Mae'r system yn yr Alban yn caniatáu inni liniaru effeithiau anrhagweladwy, oherwydd eu gallu i gynhyrchu refeniw ychwanegol sylweddol. Y risg arall y cyfeiriwyd ati yw risg refeniw hirdymor, y risg y bydd sylfaen dreth Cymru'n tyfu'n arafach. Wrth gwrs, yr ochr arall i'r geiniog i hynny yw y gallai sylfaen drethi Cymru dyfu'n gynt. Yn wir, dyna a ddigwyddodd yn ddiweddar, onid e? Roedd y refeniw o gyfradd Cymru yn 2021 yn fwy na'r addasiad cysylltiedig i'r grant bloc, gan ddarparu £62 miliwn ychwanegol i ariannu gwasanaethau cyhoeddus yng Nghymru. Ond gallwch liniaru -

- you can mitigate the risk, as well. I have limited time, I'm afraid. You can mitigate the risk, as well, because the block grant adjustment approach allows for those kinds of risks to be mitigated. We mitigate currently through the fiscal agreement already in place in terms of the budgetary risks that arise from the different distribution of taxpayers that we have in Wales, and that block grant adjustment mitigation policy could be adjusted further to provide mitigation in the way that the Northern Ireland Fiscal Commission has suggested if income tax bands are also devolved there. So, there are things that we can do to mitigate the risks, but there are great opportunities here, based on the Scottish experience, not only to generate additional revenue, but also to create a far more progressive tax structure than we're currently given by Westminster.

- gallwch liniaru'r risg hefyd. Prin yw'r amser sydd gennyf, mae arnaf ofn. Gallwch liniaru'r risg hefyd oherwydd bod y dull o addasu'r grant bloc yn caniatáu i'r mathau hynny o risgiau gael eu lliniaru. Rydym yn lliniaru ar hyn o bryd drwy'r cytundeb cyllidol sydd eisoes ar waith ar gyfer y risgiau cyllidebol sy'n codi o'r ffordd y dosberthir trethdalwyr Cymru yn wahanol, a gellid addasu'r polisi lliniaru addasiadau i'r grantiau bloc ymhellach i liniaru yn y ffordd y mae Comisiwn Cyllid Gogledd Iwerddon wedi'i awgrymu os caiff bandiau treth incwm eu datganoli yno hefyd. Felly, mae yna bethau y gallwn eu gwneud i liniaru'r risgiau, ond mae cyfleoedd gwych yma, yn seiliedig ar brofiad yr Alban, nid yn unig i gynhyrchu refeniw ychwanegol, ond hefyd i greu strwythur treth llawer mwy blaengar nag a gawn gan San Steffan ar hyn o bryd.

I have selected the amendment to the motion, and I call on the Minister for Finance to move formally amendment 1.

Rwyf wedi dethol y gwelliant i'r cynnig a dwi'n galw ar y Gweinidog Cyllid i gynnig y gwelliant yn ffurfiol.

I understand that there is an important discussion to be had about how we fund services here in Wales and that varying tax levels is the go-to for politicians when looking to raise additional revenue, but we shouldn't forget just how much of the Welsh budget, some £4 billion, is already raised through devolved tax levers; about £2.8 billion is raised through Welsh rates of income tax alone, as we know. These are substantial sources of funding and, before we look to gain more powers over taxation policy and inevitably look at increasing tax revenue, then we need to assess the tax base here in Wales, because what is missing from the motion is what impact that having full income tax-setting and tax-varying powers like Scotland could have on people's incomes. We already know that, generally, a larger proportion of the Welsh tax base - over 90 per cent of the tax base - pay the basic rate. This is higher than the UK average. Whereas, in Wales, the basic rate accounts for 59.3 per cent of total income tax, it is just 34.9 per cent in the rest of the UK, excluding Scotland. Now, the argument could be that a new, lower rate of income tax could be established in Wales if we had the powers to do so, and that is true. If we look at Scotland, we know that not all that shines is gold. The starter rate only accounts for people earning between £12,571 and £14,732, and the rate set is just 1 per cent lower than the basic rate. Meanwhile those in the Scottish intermediate rate band pay more than those within the UK basic rate. Indeed, someone earning £43,600 in Scotland is subject to an income tax rate that is an eye-watering 22 per cent higher than the equivalent person elsewhere in the UK. So, there could be political promises that additional powers would result in fairer tax bands, but the political reality is often different. We know that Plaid's current plans, as we heard yesterday, would be to raise Welsh income tax by 1p, hitting the pockets of the majority of Welsh taxpayers, and in particular those who can least afford to pay more. In fairness to the Minister, she has taken a clear position on this issue, though I do have questions about what the pledge to not raise income tax levels for as long as the effects of the pandemic continue actually means, and what threshold the Government is using to determine this. However, the issue with the Welsh Government's amendment is that it refers to its future tax plans, which include things like a tourism tax. The industry has made it clear that it sees such an idea as an unhelpful tool at a time of great difficulty for the tourism industry in Wales. There is a risk that it becomes a blunt tool, with businesses in areas that do not introduce the tax gaining an advantage over those in areas that do introduce a levy. For both income tax and tourism tax, we need to view this with regard to the porous borders between Wales and the rest of England. Would raising income tax in Wales persuade people to move elsewhere, and we lose their tax revenue? Would a tourism tax encourage people to stay in accommodation in England and avoid paying, and then travel into Wales for holiday activities? I know that the Welsh Government wishes to introduce other taxes as well, but we must consider what the possible disadvantages of these may be on the economy and communities as well, because, when a Government believes it needs a new tax, often the argument becomes one-dimensional, much like what we are seeing with the tourism tax. To conclude, I believe that we need to make sure that we're doing all that we can with our existing budgets, and that we're spending it on priority areas before we start looking at introducing taxes. As I've said in this Chamber before, it, sadly, seems the default position for Plaid and for Labour is to just tax, tax, tax. We need to think about innovation and how we use the levers we have far better. Thank you.

Rwy'n deall bod yna drafodaeth bwysig i'w chael ynglŷn â sut rydym yn ariannu gwasanaethau yma yng Nghymru ac mai amrywio lefelau trethi yw'r ateb i wleidyddion wrth edrych ar godi refeniw ychwanegol, ond ni ddylem anghofio faint o gyllideb Cymru, tua £4 biliwn, sydd eisoes yn cael ei godi drwy ddulliau treth datganoledig; caiff tua £2.8 biliwn ei godi drwy gyfraddau Cymreig o dreth incwm yn unig, fel y gwyddom. Mae'r rhain yn ffynonellau cyllid sylweddol a chyn inni geisio cael mwy o bwerau dros bolisi trethu ac edrych yn anochel ar gynyddu refeniw trethi, mae angen inni asesu'r sylfaen dreth yma yng Nghymru, oherwydd yr hyn sydd ar goll o'r cynnig yw pa effaith y gallai cael pwerau llawn i osod treth incwm ac amrywio trethi fel yr Alban ei chael ar incwm pobl. Rydym eisoes yn gwybod, yn gyffredinol, fod cyfran fwy o sylfaen dreth Cymru - dros 90 y cant o'r sylfaen dreth - yn talu'r gyfradd sylfaenol. Mae hyn yn uwch na chyfartaledd y DU. Tra bod y gyfradd sylfaenol, yng Nghymru, yn 59.3 y cant o gyfanswm y dreth incwm, dim ond 34.9 y cant ydyw yng ngweddill y DU, ac eithrio'r Alban. Nawr, gellid dadlau y byddai modd sefydlu cyfradd newydd is o dreth incwm yng Nghymru pe bai'r pwerau gennym i wneud hynny, ac mae hynny'n wir. Os edrychwn ni ar yr Alban, gwyddom nad aur yw popeth melyn. Nid yw'r gyfradd gychwynnol ond ar gyfer pobl sy'n ennill rhwng £12,571 a £14,732, ac mae'r gyfradd wedi'i gosod ar 1 y cant yn unig yn is na'r gyfradd sylfaenol. Yn y cyfamser mae'r rhai ym mand cyfradd ganolraddol yr Alban yn talu mwy na'r rhai yng nghyfradd sylfaenol y DU. Yn wir, mae rhywun sy'n ennill £43,600 yn yr Alban yn agored i gyfradd dreth incwm syfrdanol sydd 22 y cant yn uwch nag unigolyn cyfatebol mewn mannau eraill yn y DU. Felly, gallai fod yna addewidion gwleidyddol y byddai pwerau ychwanegol yn arwain at fandiau treth tecach, ond mae'r realiti gwleidyddol yn aml yn wahanol. Gwyddom mai cynlluniau presennol Plaid Cymru, fel y clywsom ddoe, fyddai codi treth incwm Cymru 1g, gan daro pocedi'r mwyafrif o drethdalwyr Cymru, ac yn enwedig y rhai sydd leiaf abl i fforddio talu mwy. Er tegwch i'r Gweinidog, mae ganddi safbwynt clir ar y mater hwn, er bod gennyf gwestiynau ynglŷn â beth mae'r addewid i beidio â chodi lefelau treth incwm cyhyd ag y mae effeithiau'r pandemig yn parhau yn ei olygu mewn gwirionedd, a pha drothwy y mae'r Llywodraeth yn ei ddefnyddio i benderfynu hyn. Ond y broblem gyda gwelliant Llywodraeth Cymru yw ei fod yn cyfeirio at ei chynlluniau treth yn y dyfodol, sy'n cynnwys pethau fel treth dwristiaeth. Mae'r diwydiant wedi egluro ei fod yn gweld syniad o'r fath fel arf di-fudd mewn cyfnod o anhawster mawr i'r diwydiant twristiaeth yng Nghymru. Mae perygl y daw'n arf di-awch, gyda busnesau mewn ardaloedd nad sy'n cyflwyno'r dreth yn cael mantais dros y rhai mewn ardaloedd sy'n cyflwyno ardoll. Ar gyfer treth incwm a threth dwristiaeth, mae angen inni weld hyn mewn perthynas â'r ffiniau agored rhwng Cymru a gweddill Lloegr. A fyddai codi treth incwm yng Nghymru yn perswadio pobl i symud i rywle arall, a'n bod yn colli eu refeniw treth? A fyddai treth dwristiaeth yn annog pobl i aros mewn llety yn Lloegr ac osgoi talu, a theithio i mewn i Gymru ar gyfer gweithgareddau gwyliau? Gwn fod Llywodraeth Cymru am gyflwyno trethi eraill hefyd, ond rhaid inni ystyried beth fyddai anfanteision posibl y rhain i'r economi a chymunedau hefyd, oherwydd pan fo Llywodraeth yn credu bod angen treth newydd arni, yn aml mae'n mynd yn ddadl un dimensiwn, yn debyg iawn i'r hyn a welwn gyda'r dreth dwristiaeth. I gloi, rwy'n credu bod angen inni wneud yn siŵr ein bod yn gwneud popeth yn ein gallu gyda'n cyllidebau presennol, a'n bod yn ei wario ar feysydd blaenoriaeth cyn inni ddechrau edrych ar gyflwyno trethi. Fel y dywedais yn y Siambr hon o'r blaen, yn anffodus mae'n ymddangos mai safbwynt diofyn Plaid Cymru a Llafur yw trethu, trethu, trethu, a dim arall. Mae angen inni feddwl am arloesi a sut y defnyddiwn yr ysgogiadau sydd gennym yn llawer gwell. Diolch.

Conversations around tax are always difficult. I don't think that any of us in this Chamber would deny that. But it is a conversation that we have to have nonetheless. There's certainly a conversation to be had around the effectiveness of taxes, such as: what are we trying to do? To what level do we want to redistribute wealth? But it is important for us also to remember that tax isn't the be-all and end-all of effective policy delivery. It certainly plays its part, and in the current devolved context is one of the few fiscal levers at Welsh Government's disposal. Now, effective policy delivery is dependent flexible fiscal levers that are truly responsive to the communities on which the policy outcomes impact. The inflexibility of the block grant model, for example, has created a discrepancy between the scope of policy design and that of policy delivery in Wales, which compromises far-reaching and long-term strategies for dealing with issues in our society, especially in terms of capital investment in infrastructure. The example of HS2, whereby Wales was deprived of Barnett consequential funding, even though not one inch of the track is being laid in Wales, underlines the inequities of the block grant model. The experience of the pandemic also exposed this discrepancy - for example, the UK Government refusing to extend furlough to accommodate Wales's firebreak lockdown in November 2021 despite the fact, of course, that Welsh Government's decision was fully consistent with its devolved competence over health policy. In fact, the pandemic showed us all the need for greater fiscal powers here in Wales, particularly when it comes to Welsh Government's ability to borrow. I was and still am an avid reader of the reports published by Wales Fiscal Analysis, and during the pandemic the work they undertook in scrutinising the budget in relation to COVID-19 money was invaluable and set out clearly the restrictions on Welsh Government fiscally. We all remember the criticism that was made of Welsh Government in this Chamber for holding back spending the full amount of what was coming down from UK Government. There was, of course, significant unallocated spend within the budget. The Tories were the biggest critics, but it was precisely the inability of Welsh Government to flex any meaningful fiscal power that forced the Government into that position. Then, of course, there's the loss of the Welsh Government's access to EU funding, and the shortcomings of replacement funding from the UK Government. 'Not a penny less', we were told. Really, they should have just been upfront and told us to forget about the penny altogether. Now, to conclude, Llywydd, enhancing the Senedd's power over devolved taxes does not only make sense from a practical perspective, but it would also increase the accountability of the Welsh Government for its own policy decisions, something that I'm sure every Member in this Chamber would agree is an imperative if we are to have a well-functioning democracy in Wales. Devolution was about bringing power closer to people in Wales. Devolution of taxes was to bring responsibility for raising the funds, rather than just spending, closer to the people. There's still, of course, some way to go before we can do anything meaningful to actually raise said funds.

Mae sgyrsiau ynghylch treth bob amser yn anodd. Nid wyf yn credu y byddai unrhyw un ohonom yn y Siambr yn gwadu hynny. Ond mae'n sgwrs y mae'n rhaid inni ei chael serch hynny. Yn sicr mae yna sgwrs i'w chael ynghylch effeithiolrwydd trethi, fel: beth rydym yn ceisio ei wneud? I ba lefel rydym ni am ailddosbarthu cyfoeth? Ond mae'n bwysig inni gofio hefyd nad trethiant yw'r ateb i bopeth ar gyfer cyflawni polisi effeithiol. Mae'n sicr yn chwarae ei ran, ac yn y cyd-destun datganoledig presennol mae'n un o'r ychydig ysgogiadau cyllidol sydd ar gael i Lywodraeth Cymru. Nawr, mae darparu polisi effeithiol yn ddibynnol ar ysgogiadau cyllidol hyblyg sy'n wirioneddol ymatebol i'r cymunedau y mae'r canlyniadau polisi yn effeithio arnynt. Mae anhyblygrwydd y model grant bloc, er enghraifft, wedi creu anghysondeb rhwng cyrhaeddiad cynllun polisi a chyflawniad polisi yng Nghymru, sy'n peryglu strategaethau pellgyrhaeddol a hirdymor ar gyfer ymdrin â phroblemau yn ein cymdeithas, yn enwedig mewn perthynas â buddsoddiad cyfalaf mewn seilwaith. Mae enghraifft HS2, lle cafodd Cymru ei hamddifadu o gyllid canlyniadol Barnett, er nad oes un fodfedd o'r trac yn cael ei osod yng Nghymru, yn tanlinellu annhegwch y model grant bloc. Gwnaeth profiad y pandemig amlygu'r anghysondeb hwn hefyd - er enghraifft, Llywodraeth y DU yn gwrthod ymestyn ffyrlo i ddarparu ar gyfer y cyfnod atal byr o gyfyngiadau symud yng Nghymru ym mis Tachwedd 2021 er bod penderfyniad Llywodraeth Cymru, wrth gwrs, yn gwbl gyson â'i chymhwysedd datganoledig dros bolisi iechyd. Mewn gwirionedd, dangosodd y pandemig i bawb ohonom fod angen mwy o bwerau cyllidol yma yng Nghymru, yn enwedig o ran gallu Llywodraeth Cymru i fenthyg. Roeddwn yn darllen, ac rwy'n dal i ddarllen, adroddiadau a gyhoeddwyd gan Dadansoddi Cyllid Cymru, ac yn ystod y pandemig roedd y gwaith a wnaethant ar graffu ar y gyllideb mewn perthynas ag arian COVID-19 yn amhrisiadwy ac yn nodi'n glir y cyfyngiadau ar Lywodraeth Cymru yn gyllidol. Rydym i gyd yn cofio'r feirniadaeth a wnaed o Lywodraeth Cymru yn y Siambr hon am ymatal rhag gwario'r swm cyfan o'r hyn a ddôi gan Lywodraeth y DU. Wrth gwrs, roedd gwariant sylweddol heb ei ddyrannu o fewn y gyllideb. Y Torïaid oedd y beirniaid mwyaf, ond anallu Llywodraeth Cymru i ystwytho unrhyw bŵer cyllidol ystyrlon a orfododd y Llywodraeth i'r sefyllfa honno. Yna, wrth gwrs, gwelwyd colli mynediad Llywodraeth Cymru at gyllid yr UE, a methiant i gael cyllid yn ei le gan Lywodraeth y DU. " Run geiniog yn llai', dywedwyd wrthym. Mewn gwirionedd, dylent fod wedi bod yn onest a dweud wrthym am anghofio am y geiniog yn llwyr. Nawr, i gloi, Lywydd, mae gwella pŵer y Senedd dros drethi datganoledig nid yn unig yn gwneud synnwyr o safbwynt ymarferol, ond byddai hefyd yn cynyddu atebolrwydd Llywodraeth Cymru dros ei phenderfyniadau polisi ei hun, rhywbeth rwy'n siŵr y byddai pob Aelod yn y Siambr hon yn cytuno ei fod yn hanfodol os ydym am gael democratiaeth sy'n gweithredu'n dda yng Nghymru. Roedd datganoli yn ymwneud â dod â phŵer yn agosach at y bobl yng Nghymru. Roedd datganoli trethi yn ymwneud â dod â'r cyfrifoldeb am godi'r arian, yn hytrach na gwario'n unig, yn agosach at y bobl. Mae yna beth ffordd i fynd eto wrth gwrs cyn y gallwn wneud unrhyw beth ystyrlon i godi'r arian hwnnw mewn gwirionedd.

I think it's always good to discuss taxation, especially when it's being discussed not as part of the budget-setting process. I think if we could perhaps repeat this sort of debate again, well away from the budget, because I think it's got far deeper meaning than this year's budget, and I think that to come back to it in six months' time would be incredibly helpful, either brought here by the Minister or brought here by one of the political parties, to give us a chance to talk about it again. My view on devolution is well documented; I support devo max. I also support devolution from the Senedd to the regions and councils of Wales. On devolution I have a pragmatic approach: what works best for the people of Wales is what I support. The motion today is a continuation of Plaid Cymru's policy of independence by instalments, or salami-slicing powers from Westminster until we eventually find ourselves independent. The Conservatives are consistent: they oppose any additional devolution at any time. What is more surprising, of course, is that in 2016 and 2007 they wanted a coalition with Plaid Cymru. I think perhaps they need to reconsider. Where I do agree with Plaid Cymru is you cannot continue with asymmetric devolution. Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland and English cities such as London have different powers being devolved. This cannot continue. It makes no sense whatsoever, and everybody's saying, 'They've got it - can we have it?' without actually having it set out. Germany doesn't have that problem. The United States of America doesn't have that problem. And America's probably even better to look at because you've got, in America, tiny states with populations smaller than West Glamorgan, and you've got California and New York. So, it can be done. It's not about size; it's about actually saying, 'This is your state responsibility.' With this asymmetric devolution, it will always cause problems. It's got to be resolved. It's got to be resolved in Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland, but the biggest question is the English question, which people don't seem to be looking at. Peter Fox criticised the Government on raising tax too much. Plaid Cymru attacked them on not raising tax too much. There's got to be something somewhere in there. Wales has done well out of devolving income tax, but that is due to a freezing of tax thresholds that means more people come into taxation and move into the second band, rather than improving relative tax. There are problems with income tax. It is meant to be a progressive tax, but there are so many ways of reducing individual tax liabilities to zero. Let's look at taxation of somebody earning £30,000 a year. If they run to retirement age, they pay income tax and national insurance. When they reach retirement age, they cease to pay national insurance. A graduate on the same income will pay back a student loan, income tax and national insurance. Some level of fairness is needed in there. Someone who receives income via dividend, which is a lot of what self-employed people do to avoid income tax, will pay substantially less. Dividends are taxed substantially lower than income tax, so it's a great way of avoiding paying tax. I'll use the word 'avoiding', because, if I use the word' evading' I'd get into trouble, but it's a way of avoiding paying tax because you have been paid by dividend, and that's very easy. You create a company, search the company's name, enter your business and personal details, receive your limited company certificate and your business bank account at the same time, arrange for all payments to go into the business and then receive your income as a dividend, thus paying substantially less tax. And more importantly for us, we don't get any of the dividend income. I think something that we do need to start arguing about is that dividend income should come to us as well, and we should also be arguing that any dividends that come from a company that people have set up and of which they are the sole recipient is effectively income, rather than dividend. That's the sort of thing that I think we need to start discussing. I do not believe that this is fair. We need a less complicated system that ensures that everybody their fair share, with dividend rates taxed the same as income tax. Then, the tax benefits exist - this only works for relatively well-off people - the travel expenses you can claim, what you're entitled to if you work from home, clothes for work count as expenses, how donating to charity can be good for your tax bill, pensions' relief. And finally there is the elephant in the room - non-domiciled status, used by the wealthy to avoid paying any income tax in Britain whatsoever. UK residents who have their permanent home outside the UK may not have to pay UK tax on foreign income, so if you have a dividend payment paid into a foreign bank and it becomes foreign income, you don't have to pay any at all; the same rules for foreign capital gains tax. All the above benefits disproportionately benefit those paying tax at a higher tax rate. Very few of my constituents get the benefit of that. The best financial devolution you could have would be for dividends to be devolved and for powers over non-dom status and for tax-deductible items to be examined, for pensions tax relief to be only at the basic rate.

Rwy'n credu ei bod bob amser yn dda inni drafod trethiant, yn enwedig pan gaiff ei drafod oddi allan i'r broses o osod y gyllideb. Os gallem ailadrodd y math hwn o ddadl eto efallai, ymhell i ffwrdd o'r gyllideb, oherwydd rwy'n credu bod iddo ystyr lawer dyfnach na'r gyllideb eleni, ac rwy'n credu y byddai dod yn ôl ato ymhen chwe mis yn hynod ddefnyddiol, naill ai wedi'i gyflwyno yma gan y Gweinidog neu gan un o'r pleidiau gwleidyddol, i roi cyfle inni siarad amdano eto. Mae fy marn am ddatganoli wedi ei gofnodi'n dda; rwy'n cefnogi devo max. Rwyf hefyd o blaid datganoli o'r Senedd i ranbarthau a chynghorau Cymru. Ar ddatganoli mae gennyf ymagwedd bragmatig: yr hyn sy'n gweithio orau i bobl Cymru yw'r hyn rwy'n ei gefnogi. Mae'r cynnig heddiw yn barhad o bolisi Plaid Cymru o annibyniaeth gam wrth gam, neu dorri pwerau fesul haen o San Steffan nes y byddwn yn annibynnol yn y pen draw. Mae'r Ceidwadwyr yn gyson: maent yn gwrthwynebu unrhyw ddatganoli ychwanegol ar unrhyw adeg. Yr hyn sy'n fwy o syndod, wrth gwrs, yw eu bod eisiau clymblaid gyda Phlaid Cymru yn 2016 a 2007. Rwy'n meddwl efallai fod angen iddynt ailystyried. Lle rwy'n cytuno gyda Phlaid Cymru yw na allwch barhau â datganoli anghymesur. Mae gan Gymru, yr Alban a Gogledd Iwerddon a dinasoedd Lloegr fel Llundain bwerau gwahanol wedi eu datganoli. Ni all hyn barhau. Nid yw'n gwneud unrhyw synnwyr o gwbl, ac mae pawb yn dweud, 'Mae ganddynt hwy hyn - a allwn ni ei gael?' heb ei fod wedi'i osod allan mewn gwirionedd. Nid yw'r broblem honno gan yr Almaen. Nid yw'r broblem honno gan Unol Daleithiau America. Ac mae'n debyg fod America hyd yn oed yn well i edrych arni oherwydd yn America, mae gennych daleithiau bach iawn gyda phoblogaethau llai na Gorllewin Morgannwg, ac mae gennych chi Califfornia ac Efrog Newydd. Felly, mae modd ei wneud. Nid yw'n ymwneud â maint; mae'n ymwneud â dweud, 'Dyma gyfrifoldeb eich talaith.' Gyda datganoli anghymesur, bydd bob amser yn achosi problemau. Mae'n rhaid ei ddatrys. Mae'n rhaid ei ddatrys yng Nghymru, yr Alban a Gogledd Iwerddon, ond y cwestiwn mwyaf yw'r cwestiwn Seisnig, nad yw pobl i'w gweld yn edrych arno. Beirniadodd Peter Fox y Llywodraeth am godi treth yn ormodol. Ymosododd Plaid Cymru arnynt am beidio â chodi treth yn ormodol. Mae'n rhaid bod rhywbeth yn rhywle yn y fan honno. Mae Cymru wedi gwneud yn dda o ddatganoli treth incwm, ond rhewi trothwyon treth sy'n gyfrifol am hynny, sy'n golygu bod mwy o bobl yn dod i mewn i drethiant ac yn symud i'r ail fand, yn hytrach na gwella treth gymharol. Mae yna broblemau gyda threth incwm. Mae hi i fod yn dreth flaengar, ond mae cymaint o ffyrdd o leihau rhwymedigaethau treth unigol i sero. Beth am edrych ar drethiant rhywun sy'n ennill £30,000 y flwyddyn. Hyd at oedran ymddeol, maent yn talu treth incwm ac yswiriant gwladol. Pan fyddant yn cyrraedd oedran ymddeol, maent yn rhoi'r gorau i dalu yswiriant gwladol. Bydd rhywun graddedig ar yr un incwm yn talu benthyciad myfyriwr, treth incwm ac yswiriant gwladol yn ôl. Mae angen rhyw lefel o degwch yno. Bydd rhywun sy'n derbyn incwm drwy ddifidend, sef yr hyn y mae llawer o bobl hunangyflogedig yn ei wneud i osgoi treth incwm, yn talu cryn dipyn yn llai. Mae difidendau'n cael eu trethu gryn dipyn yn llai na threth incwm, felly mae'n ffordd wych o osgoi talu treth. Fe ddefnyddiaf y gair 'osgoi', oherwydd fe awn i drwbl pe bawn i'n defnyddio'r gair 'efadu', ond mae'n ffordd o osgoi talu treth oherwydd eich bod wedi cael eich talu drwy ddifidend, ac mae hynny'n hawdd iawn. Rydych yn creu cwmni, yn chwilio am enw'r cwmni, yn rhoi eich manylion busnes a manylion personol, yn derbyn eich tystysgrif cwmni cyfyngedig a'ch cyfrif busnes gyda'r banc ar yr un pryd, yn trefnu i'r holl daliadau fynd i'r busnes ac yna'n cael eich incwm fel difidend, gan dalu cryn dipyn yn llai o dreth. Ac yn bwysicach i ni, nid ydym yn cael unrhyw ran o'r incwm difidend. Rwy'n credu mai un peth y mae angen inni ddechrau dadlau yn ei gylch yw y dylai incwm difidend ddod atom ni hefyd, a dylem fod yn dadlau hefyd fod unrhyw ddifidend sy'n dod gan gwmni y mae pobl wedi'i sefydlu ac mai hwy yw'r unig dderbynnydd yn incwm i bob pwrpas, yn hytrach na difidend. Dyna'r math o beth y credaf fod angen inni ddechrau ei drafod. Nid wyf yn credu bod hyn yn deg. Mae angen system lai cymhleth arnom sy'n sicrhau bod pawb yn talu eu cyfran deg, gyda chyfraddau difidend yn cael eu trethu yr un fath â threth incwm. Wedyn, mae buddion treth yn bodoli - mae hyn ond yn gweithio i bobl gymharol gyfoethog - y treuliau teithio y gallwch eu hawlio, yr hyn y mae gennych hawl i'w gael os ydych chi'n gweithio gartref, mae dillad ar gyfer gwaith yn cyfrif fel treuliau, sut y gall rhoi i elusen fod yn dda i'ch bil treth, rhyddhad pensiynau. Ac yn olaf yr eliffant yn yr ystafell - statws byw tu allan i'r wlad, a ddefnyddir gan y cyfoethog i osgoi talu unrhyw dreth incwm ym Mhrydain o gwbl. Efallai na fydd raid i drigolion y DU sydd â'u cartref parhaol y tu allan i'r DU dalu treth y DU ar incwm tramor, felly os oes gennych daliad difidend wedi'i dalu i fanc tramor a'i fod yn dod yn incwm tramor, nid oes raid ichi dalu unrhyw dreth o gwbl; yr un rheolau ar gyfer treth enillion cyfalaf tramor. Mae'r holl fuddion uchod o fudd anghymesur i'r rhai sy'n talu treth ar y gyfradd dreth uwch. Ychydig iawn o fy etholwyr sy'n cael budd o hynny. Y datganoli ariannol gorau y gallech ei gael fyddai i ddifidendau gael eu datganoli ac i bwerau dros statws byw tu allan i'r wlad ac i eitemau sy'n didynnu treth gael eu harchwilio, i ryddhad treth pensiynau fod ar y raddfa sylfaenol yn unig.

Yesterday in the debate on the Welsh Government's draft budget, I spoke about how the people of Wales are facing multiple crises, unprecedented crises since the advent of devolution, and I agreed with the Welsh Government that this was a difficult budget in a difficult time, and outlined the support that is needed for those who need it most, why the services providing this support must be given the resources that they need to fill those huge holes that exist in the safety net, which has been torn to shreds by the Westminster Tories. I set out in my contribution why Welsh Government should feel duty-bound to use all the levers available to it, which was the purpose of our call for it to use the income tax-raising powers it currently has to serve and support the people of Wales during these crises - the cost-of-living crisis, the NHS crisis, the social care crisis, the cost-of-learning crisis, the cost-of-doing-business crisis, the housing crisis, climate crisis - crises that disproportionately affect the most vulnerable of our citizens, and whose effects will scar our communities not just today or tomorrow, but for years to come. Because I, for one, am frankly fed up of hearing Welsh Government Ministers say over and over, 'We'd like to do more but we don't have the money'. If devolution truly is, as famously described by Ron Davies, a process, a journey with no fixed end point, enabling us to make our own decisions and set our own priorities, then calling for the powers we need for Wales to be able to afford to do so is a completely logical step, especially given the need, as our motion describes, to respond to the current cost-of-living crisis and the crisis facing our public services. So, that's the 'why', and in it's an important 'why' because it's not powers for their own sake but the means to make devolution work more effectively, to fund the levels of public expenditure we need. We've already heard how Wales is something of an anomaly compared to the rest of the UK when it comes to its limited tax powers, and, to quote a recent report by the Institute of Welsh Affairs on this matter, as a nation we are 'in the relatively uncommon position of having little control' over our devolved budget, with limited taxation powers, next to no influence over the block grant from Westminster, as we heard from Luke Fletcher, and exceptionally limited borrowing powers. And our anomalous situation is also relevant within a wider international context. As a recent Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development study illustrated, the UK possesses one of the most rigidly centralised tax systems in the world - something Mike Hedges alluded to. Every other G7 nation collects more taxes at a local or regional level compared to the UK. For example, devolved or decentralised taxation accounts for 30 per cent of total German tax revenue, 34 per cent in the case of the USA and almost 50 per cent in the case of Canada. This compares to just over 10 per cent of local UK tax revenue that is collected at the devolved level. We can look to the example of Euskadi, the Basque Country, too, whose devolved Government has extensive powers over personal income taxation, corporate taxation and its own wealth and inheritance and gift tax. This has engendered economic growth in the Basque Country, which has been described as highly inclusive by the Foreign Policy Centre. The region features among the top in Europe, not only in terms of GDP per capita, but crucially, given the current economic context, also in having a low percentage of population at risk of poverty or social exclusion. So, what we're proposing here isn't particularly radical, therefore; rather, it seeks to normalise what is already happening, and happening well elsewhere. The argument that we can't use tax to fund the spending we need, to create the fairer, more prosperous Wales we all want to see, is patently fairly ridiculous when set in the international context. And with the powers to set all rates and bands, income tax can be a fair and proportionate way to secure the resources we need, to help us overcome the shameful levels of poverty that blight the lives of too many of our citizens, and the dire need for investment in our public services. Westminster has never and never will work for Wales. Devolution is a journey, a journey of discovery that the Westminster way of doing things is not a good model for Wales to follow. If you believe in devolution, if you believe in taking the responsibility of governing seriously, and if you believe in serving the people of Wales, you should vote for our motion.

Ddoe yn y ddadl ar gyllideb ddrafft Llywodraeth Cymru, fe siaradais am y ffordd y mae pobl Cymru yn wynebu sawl argyfwng, argyfyngau digynsail ers dyfodiad datganoli, ac fe gytunais gyda Llywodraeth Cymru fod hon yn gyllideb anodd mewn cyfnod anodd, ac amlinellais y cymorth sydd ei angen ar gyfer y rhai sydd ei angen fwyaf, pam mae'n rhaid rhoi'r adnoddau sydd eu hangen ar y gwasanaethau sy'n darparu'r cymorth hwn i lenwi'r tyllau enfawr sy'n bodoli yn y rhwyd ddiogelwch, sydd wedi ei rhwygo'n rhacs gan Dorïaid San Steffan. Nodais yn fy nghyfraniad pam y dylai Llywodraeth Cymru deimlo dyletswydd i ddefnyddio'r holl ddulliau sydd ar gael iddi, sef pwrpas ein galwad arni i ddefnyddio'r pwerau codi treth incwm sydd ganddi ar hyn o bryd i wasanaethu a chefnogi pobl Cymru yn ystod yr argyfyngau hyn - yr argyfwng costau byw, argyfwng y GIG, yr argyfwng gofal cymdeithasol, yr argyfwng costau dysgu, yr argyfwng costau gwneud busnes, yr argyfwng tai, yr argyfwng hinsawdd - argyfyngau sy'n effeithio'n anghymesur ar y mwyaf bregus o'n dinasyddion, ac y bydd eu heffeithiau'n creithio ein cymunedau nid yn unig heddiw ac yfory, ond am flynyddoedd i ddod. Oherwydd rwyf fi, yn bersonol, wedi cael llond bol ar glywed Gweinidogion Llywodraeth Cymru yn dweud drosodd a throsodd, 'Hoffem wneud mwy ond nid oes gennym arian'. Os yw'n wir mai proses yw datganoli, fel y'i disgrifiwyd gan Ron Davies, taith heb unrhyw ben draw sefydlog, sy'n ein galluogi i wneud ein penderfyniadau ein hunain a gosod ein blaenoriaethau ein hunain, yna mae galw am y pwerau sydd eu hangen arnom i Gymru allu fforddio gwneud hynny yn gam cwbl resymegol, yn enwedig o ystyried yr angen, fel y mae ein cynnig yn ei ddisgrifio, i ymateb i'r argyfwng costau byw presennol a'r argyfwng sy'n wynebu ein gwasanaethau cyhoeddus. Felly, dyna'r 'pam', ac mae'r 'pam' yn bwysig oherwydd nid pwerau er eu mwyn eu hunain ydynt ond modd o wneud i ddatganoli weithio'n fwy effeithiol, i ariannu'r lefelau o wariant cyhoeddus sydd eu hangen arnom. Rydym eisoes wedi clywed sut mae Cymru'n eithriad braidd o'i chymharu â gweddill y DU o ran ei phwerau trethu cyfyngedig, ac os caf ddyfynnu adroddiad diweddar gan y Sefydliad Materion Cymreig ar y mater, fel cenedl rydym 'mewn sefyllfa gymharol anghyffredin yn yr ystyr nad oes gennym fawr o reolaeth' dros ein cyllideb ddatganoledig, yn gyfyngedig o ran ein pwerau trethu, heb fawr ddim dylanwad dros y grant bloc o San Steffan, fel y clywsom gan Luke Fletcher, ac yn eithriadol o gyfyngedig o ran ein pwerau benthyca. Ac mae ein sefyllfa eithriadol hefyd yn berthnasol o fewn cyd-destun rhyngwladol ehangach. Fel y dangosodd astudiaeth ddiweddar gan y Sefydliad ar gyfer Cydweithrediad a Datblygiad Economaidd, gan y DU y mae un o'r systemau trethu canolog mwyaf anhyblyg yn y byd - rhywbeth y cyfeiriodd Mike Hedges ato. Mae pob cenedl G7 arall yn casglu mwy o drethi ar lefel leol neu ranbarthol o'i gymharu â'r DU. Er enghraifft, trethiant datganoledig yw 30 y cant o gyfanswm refeniw treth yr Almaen, 34 y cant yn achos UDA a bron i 50 y cant yn achos Canada. Mae hyn yn cymharu ag ychydig dros 10 y cant o refeniw trethi lleol y DU sy'n cael eu casglu ar y lefel ddatganoledig. Gallwn edrych ar esiampl Euskadi, Gwlad y Basg, hefyd, lle mae gan eu Llywodraeth ddatganoledig bwerau helaeth dros drethiant incwm personol, trethiant corfforaethol a'i threth ei hun ar gyfoeth, etifeddiant a rhoddion. Mae hyn wedi ennyn twf economaidd yng Ngwlad y Basg, sydd wedi'i ddisgrifio fel twf hynod gynhwysol gan y Ganolfan Polisi Tramor. Mae'r rhanbarth yn ymddangos ymhlith yr uchaf yn Ewrop, nid yn unig o ran cynnyrch domestig gros y pen, ond yn hollbwysig, o ystyried y cyd-destun economaidd presennol, o ran y ganran isel o'r boblogaeth sy'n wynebu risg o dlodi neu allgáu cymdeithasol. Felly, nid yw'r hyn rydym yn ei gynnig yma yn arbennig o radical; yn hytrach, mae'n ceisio normaleiddio'r hyn sydd eisoes yn digwydd, ac yn digwydd yn dda mewn mannau eraill. Mae'r ddadl na allwn ddefnyddio treth i ariannu'r gwariant sydd ei angen arnom, er mwyn creu'r Gymru decach, fwy ffyniannus y mae pawb ohonom am ei gweld, yn un go hurt o'i gosod yn y cyd-destun rhyngwladol. A chyda'r pwerau i osod pob cyfradd a band, gall treth incwm fod yn ffordd deg a chymesur o sicrhau'r adnoddau sydd eu hangen arnom i'n helpu i oresgyn y lefelau cywilyddus o dlodi sy'n difetha bywydau gormod o'n dinasyddion, a'r angen enbyd i fuddsoddi yn ein gwasanaethau cyhoeddus. Nid yw San Steffan erioed wedi gweithio, ac ni fydd byth yn gweithio i Gymru. Taith yw datganoli, taith o ddarganfod nad yw ffordd San Steffan o wneud pethau yn fodel da i Gymru ei ddilyn. Os ydych chi'n credu mewn datganoli, os ydych chi'n credu mewn bod o ddifrif ynghylch y cyfrifoldeb o lywodraethu, ac os ydych chi'n credu mewn gwasanaethu pobl Cymru, dylech bleidleisio dros ein cynnig.

I'm pleased to take part in this debate this afternoon, and I'm going to keep my contribution fairly brief and to the point today. And I thank Plaid Cymru for tabling such an important discussion, as it shows again that the so-called Party of Wales is the most out of touch it's ever been with the needs of the people of Wales. Only last week, Llywydd, they were happy to grandstand with their showcase policy of raising taxes for working people, but do you think that's what people really want during a period of increasing cost in fuel, energy, food and everything in between? Is this really the Party of Wales acting in the best interests of the people of Wales? I think not. Most of Plaid-held constituencies are in the west of Wales with a high proportion of middle-class, socially conservative Welsh-speaking communities, rural areas with farmers and all the traits that go with it. Do you really think that the good people of places such as Lampeter, Cardigan, Aberystwyth, Newcastle Emlyn, Porthmadog, Dinas Mawddwy, and Beddgelert, even, appreciate your party being pulled in the direction of Corbynista-style nationalists? Again, I think not. Again, the self-styled Party of Wales like to believe they represent Welsh people better than anyone else and purport they are putting Wales first, but you want to devolve justice, devolve more tax powers, devolve the Crown Estates, devolve broadcasting and devolve the kitchen sink, all in the endless pursuit of independence. Goodness gracious me. This Welsh Labour Government, propped up by Plaid, can't even run the current devolved powers or even run a bath, for that matter, but want to add insult to injury. Look at the state of the NHS in Wales and social care, for example. It's in a mess: one in four people on a waiting list, patients waiting longer than any other UK nation, the failure to build north Denbighshire community hospital in Rhyl after 10 years of broken promises. I could go on all day, but sadly I don't have the time. But what I would suggest is that we get our own house in order before we consider any further devolution to Wales, and you hardly help yourselves, do you? Anyway, I'll leave it there as that's pretty much my view on the subject and would urge Members to oppose this hideously out-of-touch motion. Thank you.

Rwy'n falch o gymryd rhan yn y ddadl hon y prynhawn yma, ac rwy'n mynd i gadw fy nghyfraniad yn weddol fyr ac i'r pwynt heddiw. A diolch i Blaid Cymru am gyflwyno trafodaeth mor bwysig, gan ei bod yn dangos eto fod yr hyn a elwir yn Blaid Cymru yn fwy allan o gysylltiad nag y bu erioed ag anghenion pobl Cymru. Yr wythnos diwethaf, Lywydd, roeddent yn hapus i glochdar eu polisi arddangosol o godi trethi pobl sy'n gweithio, ond a ydych chi'n meddwl mai dyna beth mae pobl ei eisiau yn ystod cyfnod o gostau cynyddol tanwydd, ynni, bwyd a phopeth yn y canol? Ai dyma Blaid Cymru yn gweithredu er budd pobl Cymru mewn gwirionedd? Nid wyf yn meddwl hynny. Mae gan y rhan fwyaf o etholaethau Plaid Cymru yng ngorllewin Cymru gyfran uchel o gymunedau dosbarth canol, ceidwadol yn gymdeithasol, a Chymraeg eu hiaith, ardaloedd gwledig gyda ffermwyr a'r holl nodweddion sy'n mynd gyda hynny. A ydych chi wir yn meddwl bod pobl dda llefydd fel Llanbedr Pont Steffan, Aberteifi, Aberystwyth, Castellnewydd Emlyn, Porthmadog, Dinas Mawddwy, a Beddgelert hyd yn oed, yn gwerthfawrogi eich plaid yn cael ei thynnu i gyfeiriad cenedlaetholwyr Corbynistaidd? Unwaith eto, nid wyf yn meddwl hynny. Unwaith yn rhagor, mae Plaid Cymru fel y maent yn galw eu hunain yn hoffi credu eu bod yn cynrychioli Cymry'n well nag unrhyw un arall ac yn honni eu bod yn rhoi Cymru'n gyntaf, ond rydych chi eisiau datganoli cyfiawnder, datganoli mwy o bwerau treth, datganoli Ystadau'r Goron, datganoli darlledu a datganoli sinc y gegin, a'r cyfan er mwyn mynd ar drywydd annibyniaeth yn ddiddiwedd. Mawredd mawr. Ni all y Llywodraeth Lafur Gymreig hon, sy'n cael ei chynnal gan Blaid Cymru, redeg y pwerau datganoledig presennol na hyd yn oed redeg bath o ran hynny, ond maent eisiau rhwbio halen i'r briw. Edrychwch ar gyflwr y GIG yng Nghymru a gofal cymdeithasol, er enghraifft. Mae'n llanast: un o bob pedwar o bobl ar restr aros, cleifion yn aros yn hirach nag yn unrhyw un o wledydd eraill y DU, methiant i godi ysbyty cymunedol gogledd sir Ddinbych yn y Rhyl wedi 10 mlynedd o dorri addewidion. Gallwn barhau drwy'r dydd, ond yn anffodus nid oes gennyf amser. Ond yr hyn y byddwn yn ei awgrymu yw ein bod yn cael trefn ar ein tŷ ein hunain cyn inni ystyried unrhyw ddatganoli pellach i Gymru, a phrin eich bod yn helpu eich hunain, ydych chi? Beth bynnag, rwyf am ei gadael yn y fan honno gan mai dyna fy marn ar y mater fwy neu lai a hoffwn annog yr Aelodau i wrthwynebu'r cynnig hynod gyfeiliornus hwn. Diolch.

Doing nothing has a cost. The absence of action carries consequences for our society, and our debate today is all about costs. Not only what costs should be paid by people able to contribute to our society, but also the cost of not doing more to forge a fairer society, because the tax system in Wales neither adequately reflects the income and societal profile of our country nor our country's needs. There is an opportunity here to change that if we choose to take it. An opportunity and a cost, and economists would see a lesson there. So, let's look at the detail. Only a minority of people in Wales pay income tax - roughly 43 per cent of our population - because so many people either don't earn enough or are past retirement age. Almost all, as we've heard, the income tax that's raised is raised at the basic rate, and the system and the bands we have at our disposal don't allow us the flexibility to better equip our communities with the funds they so desperately need. Because taxes are a force for good. It shouldn't be radical to say that, but the tired cliché of the tax 'burden' is accepted as the norm. Tax is only a burden if we live in a society where services are not funded enough to provide a decent quality of life to all citizens. Here's a quotation, Llywydd: 'I like to pay taxes. With them, I buy civilization.' Those words are attributed to Oliver Wendell Holmes Junior, Associate Justice to the US Supreme Court in the early twentieth century. And taxes do buy us chances to do things differently, to build something better for all. If we look at the powers transferred to Scotland, both of the 2012 Act and subsequent to it in 2016, it's been able to set a lower rate for those who just creep into the bracket of paying income tax to buffer the support for those who need it most. The extra powers buy their communities hope. And the very fact that we don't have those powers in Wales has meant that revenue has to be raised through other, more regressive means. Wales has allowed council tax to go up significantly for years and, as the Wales Governance Centre and the Bevan Foundation have made clear time and again, council tax increases put more pressure on household budgets. It is simply not a fair or progressive way of raising revenue. What's more, a higher share of revenue is raised in Wales from value added tax than income tax. It's the reverse in England and Scotland. Why does that matter? Well, lower income households pay proportionately far more in indirect taxes like VAT than they do in income tax, so the people least able to afford it are once again shouldering more weight. Now, that is a burden we shouldn't be seeing. But doing nothing has a cost, a consequence. If we throw up our hands or sit on them, that cost doesn't disappear; it accumulates, and the quiet misery of millions continues. But, Llywydd, we could instead choose to lend a hand, to intervene, to create a more progressive schedule of income tax, to see tax as a means of creating the society we want. We have this opportunity to throw off the constraints of the Treasury-imposed straitjacket, to demand powers that will allow us more freedom, more flexibility, and create a system that truly works for Wales. Yes, I'll take that intervention.

Mae yna gost i wneud dim. Mae i absenoldeb gweithredu ganlyniadau i'n cymdeithas, ac mae ein dadl heddiw i gyd yn ymwneud â chostau. Nid yn unig pa gostau y dylai pobl eu talu i gyfrannu at ein cymdeithas, ond hefyd y gost o beidio â gwneud mwy i ffurfio cymdeithas decach, oherwydd nid yw'r system dreth yng Nghymru yn adlewyrchu'n ddigonol incwm a phroffil cymdeithasol ein gwlad nac anghenion ein gwlad. Mae cyfle yma i newid hynny os dewiswn ei gymryd. Cyfle a chost, a byddai economegwyr yn gweld gwers yno. Felly, gadewch inni edrych ar y manylion. Dim ond lleiafrif o bobl yng Nghymru sy'n talu treth incwm - tua 43 y cant o'n poblogaeth - oherwydd bod cymaint o bobl naill ai heb fod yn ennill digon neu wedi cyrraedd oedran ymddeol. Fel y clywsom, mae'r dreth incwm a gaiff ei chodi bron i gyd yn cael ei chodi ar y gyfradd sylfaenol, ac nid yw'r system a'r bandiau sydd gennym at ein defnydd yn caniatáu hyblygrwydd inni arfogi ein cymunedau yn well â'r arian y mae cymaint o'i angen arnynt. Oherwydd mae trethi'n rym er lles. Ni ddylai fod yn radical imi ddweud hynny, ond mae ystrydeb treuliedig y 'baich' treth yn cael ei dderbyn fel norm. Nid yw treth ond yn faich os ydym yn byw mewn cymdeithas lle nad yw gwasanaethau'n cael eu hariannu'n ddigonol i ddarparu ansawdd byw teilwng i'r holl ddinasyddion. Dyma ddyfyniad, Lywydd: 'Rwy'n hoffi talu trethi. Gyda hwy, rwy'n prynu gwareiddiad.' Priodolir y geiriau hynny i Oliver Wendell Holmes yr Ieuengaf, Barnwr Cysylltiol i Oruchaf Lys yr UDA ar ddechrau'r ugeinfed ganrif. Ac mae trethi'n prynu cyfleoedd inni wneud pethau'n wahanol, i adeiladu rhywbeth gwell i bawb. Os edrychwn ar y pwerau a drosglwyddwyd i'r Alban yn neddf 2012 ac wedi hynny yn 2016, mae wedi gallu gosod cyfradd is i'r rhai sydd ond yn cyrraedd y trothwy ar gyfer talu treth incwm er mwyn gwella'r cymorth i'r rhai sydd ei angen fwyaf. Mae'r pwerau ychwanegol yn prynu gobaith i'w cymunedau. Ac mae'r union ffaith nad oes gennym y pwerau hynny yng Nghymru wedi golygu bod yn rhaid codi refeniw drwy ddulliau eraill, mwy anflaengar. Mae Cymru wedi caniatáu i'r dreth gyngor godi'n sylweddol ers blynyddoedd, ac fel y mae Canolfan Llywodraethiant Cymru a Sefydliad Bevan wedi dweud yn glir dro ar ôl tro, mae'r cynnydd yn y dreth gyngor yn rhoi mwy o bwysau ar gyllidebau cartrefi. Yn syml, nid yw'n ffordd deg na blaengar o godi refeniw. Yn fwy na hynny, caiff cyfran uwch o refeniw ei godi yng Nghymru drwy dreth ar werth na thrwy'r dreth incwm. Y gwrthwyneb sy'n wir yn Lloegr a'r Alban. Pam mae hynny'n bwysig? Wel, mae aelwydydd incwm is yn talu llawer mwy yn gyfatebol mewn trethi anuniongyrchol fel TAW nag y maent mewn treth incwm, felly unwaith eto mae'r bobl sydd leiaf abl i'w fforddio yn ysgwyddo mwy o bwysau. Nawr, mae hwnnw'n faich na ddylem fod yn ei weld. Ond mae yna gost, canlyniad, i wneud dim. Os ydym yn codi ein dwylo neu'n eistedd arnynt, nid yw'r gost honno'n diflannu; mae'n cronni, ac mae diflastod tawel miliynau yn parhau. Ond Lywydd, yn hytrach na hynny, gallem ddewis rhoi help llaw, ymyrryd, creu trefn fwy blaengar o dreth incwm, i weld treth fel ffordd o greu'r gymdeithas rydym ei heisiau. Dyna ein cyfle i gael gwared ar gyfyngiadau'r rhwymau a osodir gan y Trysorlys, i fynnu pwerau a fydd yn caniatáu mwy o ryddid i ni, mwy o hyblygrwydd, a chreu system sy'n gweithio go iawn i Gymru. Iawn, fe dderbyniaf yr ymyriad.

I think 92 per cent of taxpayers in Wales are basic rate taxpayers. Only 0.3 per cent, barely 4,000, are additional rate taxpayers. Do you recognise that higher tax rates, particularly in those sorts of circumstances, can generate lower tax revenues?

Rwy'n credu bod 92 y cant o drethdalwyr Cymru yn talu treth ar y gyfradd sylfaenol. Dim ond 0.3 y cant, prin 4,000, sy'n talu treth ar y gyfradd dreth ychwanegol. A ydych chi'n cydnabod y gall cyfraddau treth uwch, yn enwedig yn y mathau hynny o amgylchiadau, gynhyrchu refeniw treth is?

Thank you for that intervention, Mark. Obviously, making a change like this can't be a - . I think we heard earlier, perhaps in a different debate, there's no silver bullet. This on its own cannot revolutionise the economy. We also need to have far more investment to make sure that there are higher paid, quality jobs, but I don't think that anyone would look at the tax system that we have in Wales and think that this is actually doing what it should be for the people of Wales. And I believe fervently that a change like this would benefit the people who need it most in our society. So, let's create a system that truly works for Wales, and a fairer future for everyone. Diolch.

Diolch am yr ymyriad, Mark. Yn amlwg, ni all gwneud newid fel hyn fod yn - . Rwy'n credu inni glywed yn gynharach, mewn dadl wahanol efallai, nad oes un ateb sy'n datrys pob dim. Ni all hyn ar ei ben ei hun chwyldroi'r economi. Mae angen inni gael llawer mwy o fuddsoddiad hefyd i wneud yn siŵr fod yna swyddi da ar gyflogau uwch, ond nid wyf yn credu y byddai unrhyw un yn edrych ar y system dreth sydd gennym yng Nghymru a meddwl ei bod o ddifrif yn gwneud yr hyn y dylai fod yn ei wneud i bobl Cymru. Ac rwy'n credu'n angerddol y byddai newid fel hyn o fudd i'r bobl sydd ei angen fwyaf yn ein cymdeithas. Felly, gadewch inni greu system sy'n gweithio go iawn i Gymru, a dyfodol tecach i bawb. Diolch.

The Minister for finance to contribute to the debate - Rebecca Evans.

Y Gweinidog cyllid i gyfrannu at y ddadl - Rebecca Evans.

Diolch, Llywydd. Well, this has been a really interesting debate this afternoon, and I absolutely agree with Mike Hedges that it is really good to be talking about tax in a more open and searching way that is just outside of our normal budget-setting process. So, long may that continue. And Adam Price said at the start that he feared it might be seen as a bit of a dry debate, but I think it's been anything but that. So, I will just begin with a few words on our current approach to setting tax rates for the next financial year, but I will then move on to address that longer term issue. So, our approach to setting income tax rates for next year is set squarely within the context in which we operate. And, as a responsible Government, we consider the setting of tax rates every single year, and we do that within the context of the time. We do face considerable pressure now on our public services due to high levels of inflation, and, of course, people across Wales are challenged every day with the cost-of-living crisis. The nature of our income tax base does mean that any significant increase to our resources through Welsh rates of incomes tax would have to mean that we raise the basic rate, and that's at a time when people are struggling to pay their energy and food bills. So, I have been really clear that now isn't the right time to increase income tax in Wales. And, let's remember that, with the UK Government's decision to freeze income tax thresholds, our lowest earners now are being dragged into the income tax system, and raising the basic rate would add an additional tax burden to the poorest people in our society at a time when tax is at the highest level for 70 years, and I don't think it's right to do that at this time.

Diolch, Lywydd. Wel, mae hon wedi bod yn ddadl ddiddorol iawn y prynhawn yma, ac rwy'n cytuno'n llwyr â Mike Hedges ei bod yn dda iawn ein bod yn siarad am dreth mewn ffordd fwy agored ac ymchwiliol sydd ychydig y tu allan i'n proses arferol o osod y gyllideb. Felly, hir y parhaed hynny. Ac fe ddywedodd Adam Price ar y dechrau ei fod yn ofni y gallai gael ei gweld fel dadl braidd sych, ond rwy'n credu ei bod wedi bod yn unrhyw beth ond hynny. Felly, rwyf am ddechrau gydag ychydig eiriau ar ein dull presennol o osod cyfraddau treth ar gyfer y flwyddyn ariannol nesaf, ond wedyn byddaf yn symud ymlaen i fynd i'r afael â'r mater mwy hirdymor. Felly, mae ein dull o osod cyfraddau treth incwm ar gyfer y flwyddyn nesaf wedi'i osod yn llwyr o fewn y cyd-destun rydym yn gweithredu ynddo. Ac fel Llywodraeth gyfrifol, rydym yn ystyried gosod cyfraddau treth bob un flwyddyn, ac rydym yn gwneud hynny o fewn y cyd-destun ar y pryd. Mae cryn bwysau nawr ar ein gwasanaethau cyhoeddus oherwydd lefelau uchel o chwyddiant, ac wrth gwrs, mae pobl ledled Cymru yn cael eu herio bob dydd gyda'r argyfwng costau byw. Mae natur ein sylfaen dreth incwm yn golygu y byddai'n rhaid i unrhyw gynnydd sylweddol i'n hadnoddau drwy gyfraddau Cymreig o dreth incwm olygu ein bod yn codi'r gyfradd sylfaenol, a hynny ar adeg pan fo pobl yn ei chael hi'n anodd talu eu biliau ynni a bwyd. Felly, rwyf wedi bod yn glir iawn nad nawr yw'r amser iawn i gynyddu treth incwm yng Nghymru. A chyda phenderfyniad Llywodraeth y DU i rewi trothwyon treth incwm, gadewch inni gofio bod y bobl sy'n ennill leiaf bellach yn cael eu llusgo i mewn i'r system dreth incwm, a byddai codi'r gyfradd sylfaenol yn ychwanegu baich treth ychwanegol i'r bobl dlotaf yn ein cymdeithas ar adeg pan fo treth ar y lefel uchaf ers 70 mlynedd, ac nid wyf yn credu ei bod hi'n iawn i wneud hynny ar hyn o bryd.

Thank you for taking an intervention. Hopefully, the Minister will acknowledge that this isn't a motion about increasing bands of taxation; this is about principle. She's acknowledged that this is an important debate to have, and that she wants to have it again, but will she give an undertaking to actually address why she as a Minister, and this Government, and Labour, cannot back the principles that are included in our motion today, because that's the key of this debate?

Diolch am dderbyn ymyriad. Gobeithio y gwnaiff y Gweinidog gydnabod nad yw hwn yn gynnig i gynyddu bandiau trethiant; mae'n ymwneud ag egwyddor. Mae hi wedi cydnabod bod hon yn ddadl bwysig i'w chael, a'i bod am ei chael eto, ond a wnaiff hi roi ymrwymiad i fynd i'r afael â pham na all hi fel Gweinidog, a'r Llywodraeth hon, a Llafur, gefnogi'r egwyddorion sydd wedi'u cynnwys yn ein cynnig heddiw, oherwydd dyna yw'r allwedd i'r ddadl hon?

Yes, I am, absolutely, going to come on to the points within the motion that relate to the rates and bands and so on, but I did want to add that there is considerable uncertainty relating to the impact of raising the higher and additional rates. And the evidence base for any behavioural impact that might occur in relation to any material increase to higher or additional taxpayers is uncertain, because we know that those people have options that aren't available to other people - for example, changing their primary home arrangements to mean that they don't pay income tax here in Wales. And, of course, we've got that long, porous border with England, and that creates the risk of outward migration for those more mobile taxpayers. And we had some questions yesterday in terms of how we consider that. So, just to reassure colleagues, that is already built into our ready reckoner, which estimates that a 1p increase in the additional rate actually generates a mechanical rate of £7 million, but an actual estimate of only £3 million, due to what we would expect the behavioural impact to be. And I mentioned yesterday that that was relating to the Swiss study, which is seen as the closest proxy that we have. Obviously, we do -

Rwy'n bendant yn mynd i ddod at y pwyntiau yn y cynnig sy'n ymwneud â'r cyfraddau a'r bandiau ac yn y blaen, ond roeddwn am ychwanegu bod yna gryn ansicrwydd ynghylch effaith codi'r cyfraddau uwch ac ychwanegol. Ac mae'r sylfaen dystiolaeth ar gyfer unrhyw effaith ymddygiadol a allai ddigwydd mewn perthynas ag unrhyw gynnydd sylweddol i drethdalwyr uwch neu ychwanegol yn ansicr, oherwydd fe wyddom fod gan y bobl hynny opsiynau nad ydynt ar gael i bobl eraill - er enghraifft, newid eu trefniadau prif gartref i olygu nad ydynt yn talu treth incwm yma yng Nghymru. Ac wrth gwrs, mae gennym y ffin hir agored â Lloegr, ac mae hynny'n creu'r risg o allfudo ymhlith y trethdalwyr mwy symudol hynny. Ac fe gawsom gwestiynau ddoe ynglŷn â sut rydym yn ystyried hynny. Felly, i dawelu meddyliau cyd-Aelodau, mae hynny eisoes wedi'i gynnwys yn ein canllaw cyflym, sy'n amcangyfrif bod cynnydd o 1g yn y gyfradd ychwanegol mewn gwirionedd yn cynhyrchu cyfradd fecanyddol o £7 miliwn, ond amcangyfrif gwirioneddol o £3 miliwn yn unig, oherwydd yr hyn y byddem yn disgwyl i'r effaith ymddygiadol fod. A soniais ddoe fod hynny'n ymwneud ag astudiaeth y Swistir, sy'n cael ei gweld fel y gymhariaeth agosaf sydd gennym. Yn amlwg, rydym yn -

On the question of the primary home, what discussion have you had with HM Revenue and Customs in terms of having a concordat in terms of rules for defining what a primary home would be, because that applies, of course, in other tax contexts as well?

Ar gwestiwn prif gartref, pa drafodaeth a gawsoch gyda Chyllid a Thollau EF ar gael concordat o reolau ar gyfer diffinio beth fyddai prif gartref, oherwydd mae hynny'n berthnasol wrth gwrs, yng nghyd-destun trethi eraill hefyd?

Yes, so that's set out in legislation and in guidance; we use the same kind of thing for council tax as well. So, obviously, Welsh Government officials and HMRC officials are in constant contact, both in terms of Welsh Treasury and the local government finance officials as well. So, I think that we have a shared understanding as to what a primary home would be. And we see that in effect, if you like, when we look at income tax and the C code. And we had lots of debate when we were introducing the Welsh rates of income tax about how HMRC could ensure that Welsh rates of income tax payers did have that C code attached to their rates of income tax, and we've had very good work done to make sure that we are making sure that as many taxpayers as possible have that code attached to their work. So, we also publish - I think it's annually - a report on the work of HMRC in Wales in relation to those codes as well, and I'd be happy to share more information with colleagues on that, if needed in future. Turning to the longer term, in any change we will obviously be guided by our tax principles. They commit us to designing clear and stable taxes that deliver our progressive agenda, whereby those who are most able to pay pay more than those who are less able. So, whilst powers to vary income tax thresholds would provide additional policy tools for the Welsh Government, we do need to consider carefully our specific needs and the risks, including the risk of a much greater exposure to relative tax base growth between Wales and elsewhere in the UK, and that would be a particular concern to us in relation to the higher and additional rates, where the Welsh Government is only exposed to 10p in each band.

Mae hynny wedi'i nodi mewn deddfwriaeth ac mewn canllawiau; rydym yn defnyddio'r un math o beth ar gyfer y dreth gyngor hefyd. Felly, yn amlwg, mae swyddogion Llywodraeth Cymru a swyddogion Cyllid a Thollau Ei Fawrhydi mewn cysylltiad cyson, gyda Thrysorlys Cymru a swyddogion cyllid llywodraeth leol hefyd. Felly, rwy'n credu bod gennym ddealltwriaeth gyffredin o beth fyddai prif gartref. Ac rydym yn gweld hynny ar waith, os mynnwch, pan fyddwn yn edrych ar dreth incwm a chod C. Ac fe gawsom lawer o drafod pan oeddem yn cyflwyno cyfraddau treth incwm Cymru ynglŷn â sut y gallai CThEF sicrhau bod cod C ynghlwm wrth gyfraddau treth incwm talwyr y dreth incwm yng Nghymru, ac rydym wedi cael gwaith da iawn wedi'i wneud i sicrhau ein bod yn gwneud yn siŵr fod gan gymaint o drethdalwyr â phosibl y cod hwnnw ynghlwm wrth eu gwaith. Felly, rydym hefyd yn cyhoeddi - rwy'n meddwl ei fod yn flynyddol - adroddiad ar waith CThEF yng Nghymru mewn perthynas â'r codau hynny hefyd, a byddwn yn hapus i rannu mwy o wybodaeth gyda chyd-Aelodau am hynny, os oes angen yn y dyfodol. Os caf droi at y tymor hwy, mewn unrhyw newid byddwn yn amlwg yn cael ein harwain gan ein hegwyddorion treth. Maent yn ein hymrwymo i lunio trethi clir a sefydlog sy'n darparu ein hagenda flaengar, lle mae'r rhai sydd fwyaf abl i dalu yn talu mwy na'r rhai sy'n llai abl. Felly, er y byddai pwerau i amrywio trothwyon treth incwm yn darparu arfau polisi ychwanegol i Lywodraeth Cymru, mae angen inni ystyried yn ofalus ein hanghenion penodol a'r risgiau, gan gynnwys y risg o fod yn llawer mwy agored i dwf cymharol y sylfaen dreth rhwng Cymru a mannau eraill yn y DU, a byddai hynny'n bryder penodol i ni mewn perthynas â'r cyfraddau uwch ac ychwanegol, lle mae Llywodraeth Cymru ond yn agored i 10c ym mhob band.

Does the Minister recognise that the maximum personal income rate tax in Germany is 45 per cent, while it's 55 per cent in Austria, and have you seen that transfer of people moving from Austria to Germany, based on the high tax rates in Austria?

A yw'r Gweinidog yn cydnabod mai 45 y cant yw'r gyfradd dreth incwm bersonol uchaf yn yr Almaen, tra'i fod yn 55 y cant yn Awstria, ac a ydych chi wedi gweld pobl yn symud o Awstria i'r Almaen, yn seiliedig ar y cyfraddau treth uchel yn Awstria?